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Send Email to Utah, Go to Jail
Talaria writes "The Institute for Spam and Internet Public Policy is reporting that two new laws in Utah and Michigan are going into effect next week, creating 'do not email' registries for children's email addresses. According to ISIPP, 'Email marketers who send unpermitted messages to email addresses or domains on the child protection registries in Michigan and Utah face stiff penalties including prison and fines.'" (Note that ISIPP has a vested interest in publicizing these laws, since they offer a service intended to establish that senders are in fact within the law.)
If the spammer is living in China (i.e., mainland China, Taiwan, or Hong Kong) and if this spammer sends e-mail notes to the e-mail address of an American children, how do the authorities plan to enforce this law. There is no extradition treaty between China and the USA.
Sounds like a good way to avoid being SPAMMED...
Humor from a Genetically Molested Mind
their laws no longer apply to me. ... with time, i won't have to dodge bullets either.
But seriously, what their email gets automatically subscribed, as most emails do. Or if you're in a different country or state? I don't know the law in that respect, but it brings up the point of how can Utah law have jurisdiction on the internet.
.. that doesn't beleive that heavy-handed government intervention is the solution to every problem? Especially when the solution involves censoring (for whatever reason) email communications?
Which is worse: ignorance or apathy? Who knows? Who cares?
Why are there only 12 stripes in it? The flag has 13. Slashdot needs to fix this.
It's very disrespectful to the flag and the people who died for it.
man thats just sad
Life is like a bag of chips you never know whats next
Speel
After a while, when those on the "nospam" list turn into unprotected adults, those addresses become a spammer's dream of verified recipients. Especially to those pitching to the "young adult" market segment, which is probably the most popular for spammers after "midlife crisis men". I guess I know what to give my Utah cousins for their 18th birthdays: A new address.
--
make install -not war
This sounds freakishly like the old Do Not Call list. As in, it's a really stupid idea. Why don't we create a list of all the e-mails of people who won't want to be e-mailed? 'Cause, you know, that's smart...no one will ever think of stealing the list and e-mailing all of the people...which would be a great irony, now that I think about it.
I remember how easy it was to get the DNC list from donotcall.gov for five different area codes, for free (if you lied a couple times about your tax information or something like that).
What's going to be in place for this to be stopped in this case?
Yet another WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!11!!oneone!!OMGWTFBBQ!!!!! pseudo-law...
George Carlin was right about the Pussification of America(TM).
...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
Too bad this isn't London or you could've used your "Get Out of Jail Free" card.
As usual, the headline is misleading. There is little chance that Utah will attempt to extradite spammers from China / Russia / South America, and so on. While a few (yes, and really VERY FEW) local boys have been hooked by The Feds, most are too slick (slimy?) to fall for leaving readable tracks for law enforcement to follow. In summary, this law is token and nothing more.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Just out of interest, why has this been put into Hardware when it's definately a YRO. Anyway, this scheme could be implemented worldwide and quite rightly should be. My cousin who is 8 years old has an e-mail account with supposed Spam "Protection" but yet she recieves pornographic Spam regularly. Her parents changed service but the problems are begining to occur again.
I never spell in funetiks
For only $250 a month, you can stay out of prison.
Brought to you by ISIPP.
Utah isn't going to be getting extradition for arrests of spammers in other states. Flat out not going to get it. The other jurisdictions don't even care to enforce their own junk fax laws, never mind anti-spam laws. Now Utah has an idea that they'll get other states to go along?
No, not really. But the public will think they are doing something and go back to watching Survivor or whatever until their next wave of "government must do X about Y" feelings comes over them.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
I have to ask what Utah is really like. I'm from Britain, so I've never been there. But all I hear about is that they're a very backwards state, in basically every way possible. I've even heard some people go so far as to say that Utah is resonsible for a lot of the decay in the United States today. Are those claims true, or are they just overgeneralizations based on the actions of a select few individuals?
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
Will this apply to e-mail addresses Created in Utah? Stored? If I am a resident of that state, create an e-mail address for that list and move to a different state can I use their law against someone else?
It will be impossible to enforce.
RTFA again for the best results.
shouldn't there be a "SPAM" icon in the news instead of the "censorship" one?
(5) The sending of a message described in subsection (1) is prohibited
only if it is otherwise a crime for the minor to purchase, view,
possess, participate in, or otherwise receive the product or service.
Does that mean that it disallows sending of adult e-mail only, while allowing everything else, or am I misunderstanding?
... for the spam protection :)
I can pass for 7 right? *goes to shave*
In the past, you used to have to actually commit your crime within the boundaries and jurisdiction of a particular judicial area. Those days are long gone. You can be tried in abstentia now for crimes even in areas without jurisdiction.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
Your point?
CAN-SPAM sure didn't work, the chances of this working are much like the chances of the public realizing that Al Gore didn't invent the internet.
Yes, many at Slashdot are against Mormons and Utah, namely because of the SCO attacks against Linux and the entire open source community. Remember, SCO is based out of Utah. The misactions of people will tarnish the reputation of their abode. That is just a fact of life.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
..you spam hating folks who prefered endless whining instead of learning how to use the Junk function of your client.
You fucked up this country a little bit more.
Wow. Just like that, all of my spam problems are now solved. I'll be you all wish you lived in Utah too!
</sarcasm>
15 cents per thousand emails, assuming 50 states do it with the charge given in the Michigan law, sounds rather expensive for just checking database records. Cheap enough way to get contact points of children, though.
Taiwan is NOT a part of People's Republic of China , despite of what PRoC government propaganda wants the rest of the planet to believe. Please make a note of it in the future.
But indeed, there still isn't a way to enforce any anti-spam law(s) across varies national borders. Frankly, considering that the existing laws could not even be enforced in the spamhole known as state of Florida (that is a part of the United States,) what chance is there that they're enforced anywhere else outside of United States?
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
Does not the COPPA cover the dealings of youth on the Internet? Why did they introduce redundancy and possible conflicting legislaton like this?
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
Within a year, someone will start circulating these names among overseas adult-product-spammers or worse.
At that point the list will lose all credibility and people will stop registering.
It will be too late for the kids already on the list though.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I wonder if we could get 1) the Utah kid crowd interested in some Linux distros and organize them on a scale sufficient to attract the attention of SCO, which would want to spa^H^H^H email them about their 699$ registration fee...
2) ???
3) Jailarity!
You insensitive clod...
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
The law has good intentions, but the lawmakers should of realized two things:
1.) That the technology and authentication needed to enforce these new regulations simply aren't present.
2.) The legal definition of spam still lies in limbo, even with the CAN-SPAM act.
This along with sample cases can easily show the ineffectiveness of this law. Take for instance this case: I often find that due to lax IT standards and efforts at my university, my e-mail is sometimes used to transfer spam or malicious viruses through no fault of my own. Am I to blame if an 'illegal' email reaches one of these addresses in the registry? I would like to think not, but the law is vague enough to permit such reprecusions. Granted, the law is likely intended to target larger marketing firms and not the individual user, but the fact that the possibility exists is the point.
Hey I'm all in favor of cutting spam, phishing, etc. But don't ya just love how these lawmakers seem to think that passing some law will somehow magically change things? Hint: it won't. Now let's get into jurdistiction and nationality/extradition, etc....
C|N>K
My name is Prince omar en caver ensanado and i am in desperate need of help. My heard of unicorns are kiled by very bad men who have taken over my country of narnia. We need helps to buy food and supplies to keep alive the unicorns.
I know that you are a good child, and will be willing to help. I am also able to pay great money for the help. If you can email your momy or dadys bank account and social secutrity number, I put lots of money in the account. They be very happy and thank you for long time for making them so much money. In return we just need to spend some of it on food and some fun army stuff.
If you me help reply please. The poor little unicorns are dying. To deposit the money in you parents account and make them very happy, I need you to buy some stuff and leave in wardrobe at place I tell you later. you can buy with credit cards. We give you gillions of dollars as soon as we get the stuff.
Please help! You want to make parent happy and be good child, yes. you don't want to be bad child? Pleas reply and I tell you what you must buy. All this ok, i promise, cross my hert!
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
The LDS church is very big into Scouting, during the late '80s and maybe even today, the head of the BSA was a Mormon.
Sadly, that does lead to more seemingly missing kids on Scout trips. That, plus Utah is pretty rugged country in parts.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Does this mean I can send random poor fools to jail by owning their windoze boxen and cleverly send my spam from there?
China's government has no direct control over what happens on the Island, but the KMT party which founded the Taiwan we know today is pro-unification, their ultimate goal is to merge with the PRC on their own terms. They used to claim to run the entire country, and sat on the UN, and even the UN security Counsole as "china". On the other hand, the other major party is seperatist, and wants to start a new country, called Taiwan.
Right now a lot of Taiwanese bussness men are taking advantage of the fact that they are "Chinese" in order to make money in the quickly growing chinese economy. Lots of Taiwanese companies have plants and whatnot in China.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
With all the hissy fit that's been going on about the possibilities for rapists to find children to abuse online, is it really a good idea to make it public information how to get a hold of children directly?
The official Mormon church follows state laws regarding marraige.
The splinter groups, they are the ones known for multiple marraiges and marrying off 12 year old girls to 30 year old guys.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
This law will only have the opposite effect. The email senders who will obey these laws are responsible corporate citizens, which are not likely those at whom the law was intended. The more nafarious senders of spam (drugs, porn, etc) will not make an effort to follow the law.
The law will likely cut down on the mild content spam and only increase the awful content spam to children. If the "do not spam" list is made available to anyone, how long until lawless spammers add those names to their target lists?
Answer: not very long.
This law will likely serve to filter out the mild content spam and only increase the amount of nasty spam.
The law is a nice idea, but won't do a bit of good in the real world.
Those who can do. Those who can't sue.
You're thinking of the American South, the old confederacy. Utah is out in the west, and not that many people even live there. The Mormons, moved out there after the founding of their religion, and so it's a hotbed of mormonism. But a lot of those people are wealthy, and i was under the impression that its well kept and nice, if you don't mind a Mormon infestation. Mormons are more uptight then a lot of christians, but arn't as annoying as, for example, evangelicals or southern baptists, who are concentrated in the South.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
A new worm is spreading via email, with the sole purpose of mailing porn ads to unknown recipients in Utah. RedHat was one of the affected companies. One of RedHat's managers was quoted saying "All I did was opening an email from a Microsoft representative, I don't understand what's this all about!"
More details soon.
Finally, the Taiwanese voluntarily invested more than $100 billion into more than 50,000 businesses in mainland China. More than 1 million Taiwanese have emigrated to China to live and work.
Note that even immediately after the Tiananmen Square Incident (when Washington was slapping sanctions against mainland China), the mercenary Taiwanese scum actually accelerated investments into the mainland. The Taiwanese eagerly seized any business opportunity that American companies surrendered when they (the Americans) tried to punish Beijing.
Some nations claim worldwide jurisdiction for crimes against humanity. This came out after WWII. I think Belgium is one such country.
Some countries claim worldwide jurisdiction for certain crimes committed by their own citizens or nationals.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
since i'm not a kid anymore, it is ok to send me p0rn, p1lz, |\/|ortgages, requests for africa and other garbage.
it's just not fair.
Privacy is terrorism.
Please download this list! Free to use! These people are the least likely to have anti-spam measures as well. Courtesy of the State of Utah.
Somebody else here said that the Mormons are very conservative. But they allow for polygamy? That doesn't sound very conservative! That's what I'd expect from the most hardcore, liberal hippy types!
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
I sell toys online (kids toys, not adult toys you pervs). I get about 5-10% bogus orders. Mostly from kids placing dubious orders without their parents knowledge. Of course, the kids (usually) cannot complete the order by making payment. But the site that takes the orders takes them anyway because some payment types are paper and not electronic. So what happens now if I get one from Utah (miscreant child or malicious adult) and I reply to the order with an invoice and amount due ?
Am I liable (because I got joe-jobbed) ?
Inquiring minds, etc.
This msg is brought to you by the letter 'W'.. for Worthless Wuss
FTFA:
In order to avoid running afoul of these new laws, email marketers have two choices:
1. They can ensure that they never send any email containing unpermitted materials, links to unpermitted materials, or even links to sites which have information about the unpermitted materials; or
2. They can match their mailing lists against the email registries maintained by Michigan and Utah, on a monthly basis. There is a fee associated with this list matching. Email lists are provided to the state in an encrypted fashion, and the email address registry is also encrypted.
Now, I would not mind filtering any commercial email list I might maintain against their "do not email" list: What I definitely DO mind is being CHARGED for the privilege!! It makes zero sense to reward the businesses who use Unsolicited Commercial Email within all apllicable laws and regulations with FEES charged in order to ensure that they *continue* to operate within the regs. The sad part is, even if your list is double opt-in, if one of the member addresses on that list is also on Utah's or Michigan's "Do not" list, *you*, as the provider of email, are the one punished. The double-opted in subscriber in question, in all likelihood an enforcement official involved in entrapment, faces no penalty whatsoever.
I try, I really do try, to keep my language within bounds of decency, but sometimes one just simply must say !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Take the 90-Day Challenge! http://rwmurker.bodybyvi.com/
Here comes the real fun.
Script kiddie takes the lists, and pops them into his new trojan that turns the average not updated Windoze box into a zombie.
Some poor schmuck's machine sends out erectile dysfunction spam to all the addresses on the list. Is indicted in Michigan and Utah.
Script kiddie laughs his arse off in Norway, Sweden, Finland, Russia, France, Germany, Malaysia, Indonesia, Korea, or wherever that Michigan and Utah law doesn't touch.
Linux - because it doesn't leave that Steve Ballmer aftertaste.
they keep electing Orrin Hatch. That alone speaks volumes. Among other things, he's the proud author of the DMCA, the INDUCE act, the PIRATE act (Porno Is Really Awesome To Endorse, apparently), he advocated the destruction of PCs belonging to software pirates with some vaporware virus, and then was caught red handed using pirated software. He claimed that was a mistake made by his staff. When he was caught with stolen Democratic party memos, he claimed that (you guessed it) it was a mistake made by his staff. At best, he's a clueless old grandpa that has no business writing copyright legislation.
-- No Text --
Wikileaks, no DNS
This list is custom-made for abuse, especially when you consider that many people use the same nickname in multiple places -- email, instant messanger, blogs, etc.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
.. I don't normally get involved in topics of a political nature here on Slashdot, but the title of this article sticks out like a sore thumb. At best, it's misleading as all hell. It is not simply Send an email in Utah, go to jail.
It is: send spam to a minor in Utah or Michigan whose email address is on a do not email list, and face the possibility of charges being pressed against you if a parent chooses to do so.
It couldn't possibly be due to Slashdot's liberal editorial leanings and the fact that Utah is a conservative state, could it? After all, a liberal leaning state like Michigan passed the same sort of laws, yet it wasn't mentioned in the article title.
What's the next topic on the agenda? Drive a car in Georgia, go to jail, simply because the state has driving laws and you can be arrested for violating them?
Try this: You insensitive clod...
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
...to get on this list. You fucking assholes who are against this sort of thing must not get any spam. Filters? Lame, the spam still takes costly bandwidth. Bandwidth is cheap? Lame, have you ever run an ISP? Censorship? Even lamer, name one person that likes porn / mortgage spam? Unless your some fucking looser nerd or fag who wacks off to that sort of thing.
Think about spam as being equivalent to pollution -- it's that an enterprise is able to shift its market burden to others. In the case of a polluting buisness, the government has to pay for clean up; in the case of a spammer, ISPs have to pay for more bandwidth, larger storage on their servers, and it wastes people's time; of course, the ISPs pass these expenses onto their customers, and the government pass it onto taxpayers. Both of these are fundementally unfair to the customers/taxpayers, and that's why the government needs to regulate it.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
Honestly. Granted, Utah should have it's own category, but I'm sure we can find some stories to fill the void in Hardware....
Making the kind of "noob" assumptions you just did, posting at "1", and with a User ID in the high 800,000's, your sig sounds kind of, well, silly.
This is technically insane.
So they expect that every emailing list there is out there (not necessarily spam) will have to continually check every single one of their emails to see if it matches one on this "block list"?
It's insane!
It would make more sense to provide those kids an email from a specific domain (example: *@protectedchildsofutah.com"), add filters to it and ban people from sending spam from them (as an extra unuseful measure).
There again... I'd much rather government to not get too much involved in restrictions and let the internet provide it's own solutions... it takes time, but solutions do come and they are more effective.
as many trolls there
suppose someone put a list of e-mail addresses online and said, "do not e-mail this children, because they are innocent and uncorrupted. they are highly suspectible to hoaxes and don't know how to properly avoid indecent things on the internet."
So I wonder what would be stopping more evil individuals with a little bit of know how from sending forged e mails in the names of people they don't like, then reporting them to authorities in Utah?
There are lots of these bills. Too many /.ers saw the word "Utah" and instantly ignored the fact that Michigan introduced it too, or even ignored the rest of the post.
frob
//TODO: Think of witty sig statement
Spammers are using open proxies and botnets, and are untraceable. Now you've given them a list of valid email addresses. "Dear Minor: Please forward this to Daddy in case he needs v1@9ra or c1@lis. Thank you, Mr. Direct Marketer. PS. Click on this link to play with your very own Bonzi Buddy and receive free candy!"
Does this infringe it?
ZRBOSFN is the word!
Let's put a few big-time spammers to death, just to use them as an example and scare away some of the others.
If you're not a big fan of trees and moisture in general, you may like it.
Yes, I'm a Mormon, but I'm originally from the south (North Florida... basically an extension of Georgia with an Alabama twang) and I'd never been to Utah at all until I was 19, and not for any appreciable amount of time until I was 21 and was going to college. I have no blood relatives from Utah.
Here's what I can't stand about Utah - climate. Hate it. I'm from Florida and I like my oxygen soaking and mosquito infested thank you very much. I'm tired of going through a tube of Chapstick every four days and I hate having to put lotion on my hands every day or watch them crack and bleed. My wife wants to stay in Salt Lake for my career... and her skin breaks out around humidity... don't know how we're going to arrange this one.
Some portions of culture - as noted, yes, I'm a Mormon, but I'd never been to Utah before I grew up. Some portions of the population are amazingly zealous (a small town or two in Utah actually has declared itself a "UN free zone", whatever that may mean), but so long as you stay out of the geographical fringes and don't go attacking people for whatever reason, you're pretty much OK. There's a lot more anti-Mormon activity here than there was in the South (and that's saying something), which I'm not a big fan of. I've never stood outside of someone else's building to pamphlet it, blare at those who enter it with megaphones, or break up other people's wedding parties, but there's a lot of folks there that seem to like to do it to the Mormons.
As far as the state being the "reddest" in the nation, that's true, but take a look at the political affiliation of the mayor of Utah's biggest city - yup, Salt Lake's mayor is a Democrat.
Take a look at the Senate minority leader, Harry Reid. He's a Mormon, too. It would appear the democrats don't have that much of a problem with Mormons after all.
Also, should it really surprise people that a bunch of conservative minded people should vote for a (here's a shocker) conservative party? Or that people should vote for others in their peer groups? Sure, lots of Mormons get elected but guess what - the majority of the people in Utah are MORMONS. You could even look at it as a matter of probability - if you were to randomly select something from a bag and 75% of the objects in the bag were one color, which would you be most likely to select? Apply the dynamics of winner-take-all voting on there and you're bound to get more Mormons in government. You may also note that blacks are very often elected by majority black areas and Jews in majority Jewish areas. Is it really that surprising that a place with a population up to 90% Mormon in some areas would vote for a Mormon and would allow their religious beliefs to maybe come into their voting?
As far as Utah bringing down American society as we know it, I hardly think Utah's four or five electoral votes could have that effect. And the people you're largely thinking of are evangelicals - and many of those are out there burning Books of Mormon and causing the Mormons a lot of trouble.
Paranoid political theories aside, Mormons don't (or most certainly don't) discuss politics from the pulpit. No non-profit group can without risking its non-profit status. Ironically, this has been used against a lot of Anti-Mormon groups that attack Mormon candidates based on religion.
I'm actually a BYU student in Provo, the most Republican city in the most Republican state in the Union. BYU does have a large Democrats club that actually WON last year's debate against the Republican club (whooped 'em big time), and the debate was scored by a firm, straight party-line Republican professor (I know because I've talked with him about these issues privately from time to time).
However, it shouldn't be assumed that all of the professors share his views. Of the professors I know who have expressed political views, Democrats are at least even with Republicans, and there's even
Quick question, but isnt creating a list of "children" a really stupid idea? I mean c'mon, VISA and Mastercard etc. cant keep a few million credit card numbers secure online, and now you want a list of children's email addresses to be stored online and think you can stop it from being stolen? Whats next, include name, age, address, phone and pictures with the emails as well just in case? If you ask me, exposing a young childs identity online is a stupid idea. Besides, if they are that young, they shouldnt be online anyways, let alone have an email address. When is the last time you sent a snail mail letter to a child with their own address and not to their parents address?
Morons...
IMO this guy is hard core trolling. Please mod accordingly.
Many free e-mail accounts, including that pit of voles, Hotmail, allow this very easily. Granted, any time the child gives their e-mail address to a friend, they'll have to get their friend's e-mail address and put it on the allowed list, but a) you'll want to remember your friend's address anyway, and b) adding new friends and existing friend/relatives' new addresses to the allowed list has got to be less of a pain than setting up a new account every time the old one gets spammed up.
A child who is too young to recognize and handle spam is probably also too young to be talking to strangers unsupervised. Even on the internet. Especially on the internet.
1. Hack into ISIPP network
2. Get the child protection registries
3. Make the list available to toys specialized spammers
4. Profit
Hardware? This sounds more like a Your Rights Online to me...
If you really were worried about Dubya's trigger finger, you would ask that he be impeached.
On topic: How do we all get on the do-not-spam list? We're all under 14 here, right?
Seriously, won't everyone in the world claim that they are children?
This seems like a boon to the spam industry. From ISIPP's description (aside: is it just me, or is it silly that they boast they're "IADB accredited" -- their own accreditation -- on their home page? Cisco, now CCNA certified! Verisign, Trusted by Verisign!), you buy the list of email addresses to match them against your database.
They say something about the databases being encrypted which isn't particularly well explained. Even so, you have to be able to get results back that "this, this, and this are registered."
It would seem this leads to:
1. Buy ISIPP database.
2. Test validity of addresses by finding out which ones are registered.
3. Resell the verified list to foreign spammers, for Profit!!!
They seem aimed at curbing porn and prescription drug spam to minors. Though, anyone who sends that stuff recklessly is already violating the can-spam act and probably overseas anyway.
Are these kids are signing up at porn sites or something and getting spammed? It would seem that a better use of time would be managing a whitelist for their kids' inboxes instead of making up new laws.
typo :(
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
Regulating email spam to the degree of imprisonment and fines is a bit extreme, don't you agree? How well advertised or published will the new regulations be? Is there a grace period when companies and individuals can claim they weren't familiar with the law and be exempt from prosecution? Attempting to regulate something as vast as the World Wide Web is ludicrous. The internet can not be controlled from the top down like T.V. and radio because it isn't organized like the other mediums. The beauty of the web is the free flow of new ideas, innovative products and peer-to-peer relationships. To what degree will political campaigns fall under the new legislation? What would happen if someone registers as a Democrat on one website and three months later their information is passed on to a liberal candidate. Suppose for instance that the candidate is a strong pro-choice advocate and sends the person some literature intended to mobilize the voter, but actually offends her? Who is liable?
If you really, really, really hate Mormons (and I'd love to know why if you do, please say "intolerance on their part" so I can laugh at your intolerance), and you like to complain about obnoxious liquor laws, then it might not be the right place for you. The liquor lawas seem to be more of a problem for the tourists than for the locals, since the real problem is just understanding them. Anybody that wants to drink in Utah drinks whatever they want to.
Even if you have no desire to live there, it is really worth a visit while on holiday. There are a large number of national parks and some really spectacular scenery.
Lasers Controlled Games!
...the joke regarding stiff penalties and viagra spam...
"Send Email to Utah, Go to Jail"
This title is not sensationalist at all, is it?
Despite all the bullshit, Taiwan is the country that has the most legitimate claim to the word "China". The only reason anybody says differently is because (a) Mainland has an army of billions (b) Mainland is the largest market in the world, so nobody wants to offend them.
But to be clear... Taiwain it the *REAL* China.
All you do is store the MD5 or SHA1 hash of the email address in the database, rather than the address itself. Then email senders compare the MD5/SHA1s of their mailing lists with the do-not-send list. In fact the article mentions that the lists will use "encryption" of some sort. It further suggests that the senders will likely have to submit their (possibly encrypted) lists to the state, and the state will do the comparison and return any hits. Either method would work--from a technical point of view--and would eliminate any possibility of the do-not-send lists from being misused.
Of course, if someone saves a backup copy of the email addresses themselves, then none of the above matters.
But I get mail from Mormon church, even if I didn't want. Does that mean the temple priest goes to Prison?
If you like snow skiing, hiking, mountain biking, camping, fishing, rock climbing, or any number of other outdoor activities, Utah is a great place to live.
You forgot hunting. Great hunting here too. Why just about every kid over 12 has a rifle.
And allayou outta-staters thinkin' 'bout comin' here just might want ta think 'bout that. We got enuf people here and don' need no more.
Oh, and all the rest of that stuff he mentioned is overrated. And the bit about liquor is wrong, too -- if ya come here, ya better be plannin' ta dry out.
Get the picture?
(Psst... John... WTF you thinking, man? You want to ruin it for all of us?)
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Okay. Some of you think that this means giving spammers a list of addresses confirmed of belonging to children.
If the list is well implemented, that won't happen. The published list will only contain hashes of the addresses.
Let's say I have a list of 1 million do-not-email addresses. From it, I'll compile a list of 1 million hashes.
Spammers will run their own address list through the hash, and check the do-not-email hash list against theirs.
Now, there is a problem with that system: spammers could generate a list of addresses by using common domains and usernames. And they'd probably find a few confirmed-valid addresses in the list.
So, there really isn't a good way to fix this, is it ?
Well, I've got one idea. Mass-sender registration. It requires the weight of law to work, which makes it an imperfect solution, it's not a universal fix to spam by any measure. But the fight against spam can only be won by the death of a thousand cuts.
To defeat spam, we need to wage a many-pronged attack against it and all that it stands for. The need for technological solutions is evident, and antispam software is critical.
However, legal attacks can help us fight spam. Mass-sender registration is simple. Everyone who sends over x amount of emails that will reach people within a specific jurisdiction need to first register themselves and their mailing in a purely electronic procedure.
A common registration protocol, simple to interface with, must be adopted by these governments, but registrars must remain separate.
For example, let's say I want to send 1 million spams. Let's say the Utah, Michigan and Wyoming have laws that require me to register my mailing if I mail more than 15 citizens of each state. If I don't register my mailing, I must include valid contact information in the mailing, and be prepared to provide all registration information on demand. Failure to comply with the law gives the right for individual citizens on the do-not-email list, who find the spam inacceptable, to sue individually for 250$ or run a class action suit for the same amount.
Registration is very simple: my mailing software automatically sends a copy of the mailing to the registrar - through SMTP. Seconds later, I receive a confirmation email that lets me send my mailing.
I do not need to register private mailings, nor mailing list messages for lists with double opt-in confirmation, list admin contact information and unsubscribe address or link.
This solution, while flawed, lets us enlist vast armies of greedy lawyers, who sue spammers for a living. They'll keep most of the class action fees for themselves, but they'll bleed spammers dry.
We need laws and technologies that makes it hard for spammers to make a profit. The public sector cannot stop spammers, but the private sector can. If there is a bounty for stopping spammers, around 500$ per illegal spam... It will be claimed by greedy lawyers and their spammed clients.
The key to the spam problem to unleash ONE THOUSAND ATTACK LAWYERS upon evil spammers.
Now, about those missionaries...
After all, before the Internet, it was impossible for paedophiles to locate children at all. It's not like they're running everywhere.
All my friends did though.
Anyhow this ocnversation seems strangely familiar...
Lasers Controlled Games!
Seeing how this law is coming from a state where they tried to pass laws allowing kids to bring guns to school as long as they tell their principal, I am not suprised by their lack of logic.
Yeah, after all, Utah is the only place children exist. It's not like paedophiles can find them anywhere else.
... anyone that dies for a country is also a moron. Ideals like freedom, peace, and justice -- that may or may not be defended by one's country -- those are worth dying for.
more info on utah lawsuit - this is not about the bill this slashdot article is about - but it raises some of the same issues.
c =252
http://www.aclu.org/Privacy/Privacy.cfm?ID=18455&
The Utah Progressive Network and Andrew McCullough, who joined today's lawsuit, have Web sites that are hosted on shared Internet addresses with unrelated sites, some of which contain material likely harmful to minors. They fear that because of the new law, their sites and their constitutionally protected speech will be blocked.
"To comply with the law, Internet service providers are authorized to block access to certain content, and this would almost unavoidably lead to the blocking, and thus the censorship, of innocent websites," said co-counsel John Morris of the Center for Democracy and Technology. "Also troubling is the fact that the publishers of these sites may never realize they're being blocked."
The case, The King's English v. Shurtleff, challenges Utah Code 67-5-19, 76-10-1205 through 1206, and 76-10-1230 through 1233.
Clients in the lawsuit are The King's English, Inc.; Sam Weller's Zion Bookstore; Nathan Florence; W. Andrew McCullough; Computer Solutions International, Inc.; Mountain Wireless Utah, LLC; the Sexual Health Network, Inc.; Utah Progressive Network Education Fund, Inc.; the American Booksellers Foundation for Free Expression; the American Civil Liberties Union of Utah; the Association of American Publishers; the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund; the Freedom to Read Foundation; and the Publishers Marketing Association.
I understand that this registry might have something to do with child predators, but it seems that the majority is to prevent Utah children from getting spammed.
Do marketers even try to spam children? I certainly doubt they're interested in sending them spam for Viagra or home loans, or $19 copies of Windows XP.
And emails from Hasbro or Tonka will probably be ligit because the kid signed up for the emails through their websites.
-David
What a fine way for child molestors to reach their target market. Efficiency at its best.
Can we have ONE thread on slashdot where people don't start talking about Bush, Iraq, War, etc. when it's completely unrelated to the topic? It's really starting to make reading the comments painful.
Bungo!
I put myself on the "Do not call" list and I still get calls from those idiotic automated "You have won a holiday" messages. How can that be? Well, it's because I live in the UK and the FCC, while stamping on abuse at home, does not require US businesses to honour our list. In this day and age, I find this rather puzzling.
Still, the last one we got, we managed to get through to a real person (at their expense) and left them talking to our three year old daughter for half an hour.
Visit Snowflake Showers
1. 65% of all spam originates in the US, so creating law in the US is a good start (source: CipherTrust) 2. Regarding spammers in Taiwan (for example). Extradition is irrelavant - international law does not work like that. No country in the world cares what additional stupid little laws another has, never mind a state/county law that isn't applicable nationally. They wouldn't even extradite someone from Colorado to Utah.
ISIPP is run by Anne Mitchell.
Anne Mitchell was one of the founders of Habeas.
The first thing Habeas did was sign up known
spammers as customers.
Look at who ISIPP is working with.
It's all about PR and money.
I counted 39.
"I just wish the spammers had a "not an idiot" list, so they could stop wasting their resources sending the stuff to me."
That would be wonderful, if it weren't for the fact that many idiots would get confused and put themselves on the list.
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
the only sure fire way to "protect" against spam is useing email programs that can block any emails that are not in the users address book. Of them all only ONE email program can do that effectively - AOL's. I'll be the first one to say AOL is the internet on training wheels and like WinXP contributes to people's sheer and utter ignorance as to how their computer works but this feature they've had from the beginning and it's always worked.
This "law" is really going to suck for Joe Job emails (you know, the ones where someone takes YOUR email address and uses it in their From: line to spam millions, so the bounces and rejection messages come back to YOUR mailbox).
If they're not properly parsing headers to find the REAL sender of the email (i.e. in the "From " line, not the "From:" line), they're going to likely investigate and piss off a LOT of innocent people who have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the originating spam messages.
Time to start using those 16,384-byte gpg and crypto keys on all of my systems again. Sigh.
That should've been a clue that Michigan's "leaders" are clueless when it comes to technology and the costs involved. Now this. How in the hell does she plan on going after spammers? Will she end up attempting to convict someone who was a zombie spam host because she and the rest of Michigan's leadership are clueless?
Again, the intentions are good, but once again, not thought out at all.
Content Management System: A pretentious way of saying "text editor."
I'm not sure what else they have, though.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
WTF? That's not flamebait. It's a valid and interesting question.
As a South Dakotan I am offended by the above statements, I will have you know that we recently upgraded from a single ISDN line to a single whopping T3 for the entire state you insensitive clod.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
I do wish I lived in utah. Kick-ass skiing there.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
Maybe, just maybe, this law is not a stupid as it appears on the surface. Everyone is assuming spammers will just grab these lists and send spam to them using spoofed source addresses. Maybe, that is exactly the intention. Make a list, put everyone that requests to be on it, and give that list to mass marketers on demand so that they can avoid sending to those addresses. Make sure every time you give out a list, you note who it goes to and embed a unique e-mail address or two. When you get spam to that address, prosecute whoever you gave that e-mail to. Spammers could easily get around this by getting multiple lists, or stealing a list from another marketer, but provided the law is written correctly and has a clause to deal with redistribution of the list, this could be a huge and successful sting operation.
Realistically, this isn't what is happening. I just don't think law enforcement and legislators are both that clever, coordinated, and motivated on this issue. Still, it's a good idea.
Buenos Aires perhaps?
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
This is all very funny and yet it's too true. I was just reading this over at Ars and I was thinking that Utah parents would have to be ... nevermind.
1+1=2, but Infinty+Infinity=Infinity...
Therefore infinity must equal zero and therefore it does not exist and therefore EVERYTHING is quantifiable to sum.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
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/counter/ lost mod-points IMO, even if it doesn't give new ones...
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Thank-you!
So far, I've had two funnies, and two flamebaits.
Funny should
Yours, Morosoph.
http://slashdot.org/~Morosoph/pubkey
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Thank you for your concern with my liability exposure.
If you are right about anything you wrote, it is that lawyers do have concerns (ethical and practical) about giving advice that might be misconstrued and cause harm.
In my posts above, and in all my posts to slashdot, I refrain from offering legal advice. I do post legal information, as I am free to do.
I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. Reading a slashdot post does not constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship. I am probably not you lawyer if either a) we aren't both in Indiana
and b) you haven't paid a hefty retainer at my standard $235/hr or some other agreed upon rate.
I am not currently seeking new clients and this post is not an ad for my services.
Additionally, I keep myself judgment-proof and do not carry malpractice insurance. If you need a lawyer in Indiana I might be able to provide a referral. If elsewhere, contact the National Bar Association or maybe EFF.
Oh one correction though, what do you mean "A" rifle?
I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
On the 4th you frozen water skiers can do so at snowbird ski resort
Well, slush skiers, anyway.
we liquid water skiers are out playing on our favorite reservoirs.
Yep. Hopping across the lake from boat to boat :-)
Oh one correction though, what do you mean "A" rifle?
Most 12 year-olds only have one... for a while.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.