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Fired AOL Engineer gets 15 Months

n3hat writes "A former America Online software engineer was sentenced to 15 months in prison for stealing 92 million screen names and e-mail addresses and selling them to spammers who sent out up to 7 billion unsolicited e-mail messages, according to this A.P. story in the Baltimore Sun."

247 of 371 comments (clear)

  1. In a related story... by losman · · Score: 4, Funny

    AOL still blows and we are amazed people still use it.

    I know, I know... probably a flamebait rating but come on, you know you giggled!

    --
    Q: I am short, useless and provide no value. What am I? A: a sig
    1. Re:In a related story... by `Sean · · Score: 4, Interesting
      June 22, 2000 (from http://www.inertramblings.com/archives/000439.html ):

      America Online: A sucker born every minute...

      According to a corporate press release dated June 16, 2000, America Online has surpassed the 23 million member mark. Founded in 1985, AOL has been a household name to novice computer users worldwide. Unfortunately, many of these novices don't know that they're only seeing a small portion of the Internet and are being limited by AOL's proprietary and archaic interface.

      Now, it's fairly safe to make the assumption that at least a quarter of AOL's 23 million customers are simply short-term users along for the free trial or jumping from service to service looking for the best deal. And, using that same line of thinking, roughly half of those 17.25 million remaining customers are probably smart enough to see AOL for what it really is and cancel their service in a desperate fit of fight or flight.

      That leaves approximately 8.63 million customers that use AOL as their primary Internet Service Provider, give or take a random three quarter million people at any given time signing up or canceling. With this in mind, and approximately 7.88 million minutes in AOL's 15 year history, this proves that a sucker really is born every minute.

    2. Re:In a related story... by securitas · · Score: 3, Insightful


      Or maybe it means that novices sign up to become familiar with interacting with the online world.

      Once they've become comfortable with using a computer and an online service, they feel that they can take the training wheels off and find things on the Web for themselves. The most common Internet activities are e-mail, Web and chat. You don't need AOL for those.

    3. Re:In a related story... by ForestGrump · · Score: 2, Funny

      But you do need AOL for it's high quality IM client!

      --
      Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
    4. Re:In a related story... by deizel · · Score: 1

      Uhm..... I think that was his point. Some noobie/novice/sucker comes along and needs training wheels. And it happens every minute.

      --
      d.
    5. Re:In a related story... by fbjon · · Score: 2, Funny
      It's much more than that.

      The global growth rate is about 140 ppm (people per minute). Let's consider that anyone with an IQ of <100 will want or need training weels, that means a growth of at least 70 ppm who need/want training wheels.

      If we look at the birth rate instead, which is about 270 ppm, we get a growth figure of 135 ppm who need/want training wheels. If we now guesstimate that 40% of these newborns are persons who will eventually clog up the helpdesk more than usual, we get a figure ot 54ppm.

      In other words: One sucker born every second!

      I estimate that in a few decades, half of all jobs in the service sector will be helpdesk-related.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    6. Re:In a related story... by LnxAddct · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For all this shit people give AOL, I recommend it to every novice user I know. It has integrated spyware detection, some of the best spam and phishing blocking, comes with access to AOL's large library of music and videos, news, etc... It sets up your buddy list and everything for you. All of this is accessible by running one program, and for all of the functionality packed into it, the gui isn't half bad. For the price you pay, you can't beat it.

      Most people think that it is just a regular ISP but it isn't. You get a ton of extras to go along with it (streaming music, videos, stock tracking, games, spyware removal, a clean inbox, self configuration, and alot more). Very rarely will you see spam coming from an AOL user, if you do see it, it's probably being forged from somewhere else. Considering all of the zombies that comcast and verizon let live on their networks, AOL's active approach seems refreshing. Just like credit card companies, if they notice unusual activity, they'll notify you, if its really bad they'll lock your account until you can let them know that it isn't a spammer that took control of your account. Anyway... even if AOL is just for noobs, I'd rather most peopl be using AOL for Broadband, rather then Comcast and degrading the quality of the net.
      Regards,
      Steve

    7. Re:In a related story... by Ubergrendle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Our uber-geek superiority complex sidesteps the fact that probably a large number of people in the world still have "12:00" flashing on their VHS (Beta?) VCRs, they never upgrade or patch the operating system their computer ships with, and still think that a 486 is a good computer.

      AOL targets the masses; they fill a niche that allow us geeks to play Battlefield 2 or compile code or peruse usenet, without having to answer a phone every 2 minutes explaining how to use "electronic mail...no you don't have to print it to read it, so yes you're right its not really like mail."

      AOL also did something cool recently with regards to Live8 -- live streaming of the event, and high-bitrate streams of each city's concerts archive online. Give credit where its due...

      PS Note I would rather peel off my fingernails one by one and douse them in hot sauce rather than use AOL on a daily basis, but that's just me.

      --
      John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
    8. Re:In a related story... by Nintendork · · Score: 1
      Or maybe it's just that AOL has an appeal to those that don't want to touch computers unless they have to. People that are only using a computer because they're forced to modernize see AOL as insurance of a hassle-free experience, even for those that barely understand the concept of a mouse. Those that end up getting over the computer fearing hump move on.

      -Lucas

    9. Re:In a related story... by panaceaa · · Score: 2, Funny

      Is that where you learned you're high quality grammar?

    10. Re:In a related story... by gargan · · Score: 1

      Steve? Steve Case? Is that you?

      Seriously though, you may be right. I think part of the problem is that those of us here used aol 5-20 years ago, and haven't had much experience with it recently (by choice, mostly). Same goes for me, but being a tech in a small shop I have to see aol more than I would like. I don't think their spyware detection is very good, as I've seen computers so infected I had to wipe them with a nice big "AOL Anti-Spyware!" icon right there on the desktop with all the other icons that they don't know what they do. Also, it's based on Aluria, which I don't like very much.

      Since I don't use it daily (thank God) I can't comment on running it all the time, but it seems to not quite be so horrible lately as it used to be, and of course the point about it being training wheels for the internet is valid, and I'm glad they're getting better wheels.

      --
      Emory: Uh..we're still..beta testing that.
      Oglethorpe: What you're testing is me and my patience!
    11. Re:In a related story... by jackofallbrandnames · · Score: 1

      FYI, the AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) is available without being a "member".

      --
      The geek shall inherit the earth.
    12. Re:In a related story... by ForestGrump · · Score: 1

      Yea, i know. But all the cute girls are members tho...sadly.

      --
      Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
  2. Lucky guy by igny · · Score: 5, Interesting

    He has got just 1 second of jail per 175 emails.

    --
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra
    1. Re:Lucky guy by ElVaquero · · Score: 1

      Which is about the time it takes for anyone to delete the mail.

    2. Re:Lucky guy by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Interesting

      He has got just 1 second of jail per 175 emails

      That assumes that the people he sold the names to (and whoever else might have received them downstream) only used them once. I'm going to bet that's not the case. Some hunk of that last has probably made rounds to multiple mail whores for a little merge/purge processing against their other lists. That's not nearly enough time - he should get out when people holding those addresses haven't seen any spam for at least 6 months.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    3. Re:Lucky guy by Frogbert · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think its kind of harsh that he was sent to prison, personally I think that prisons should be reserverd for people who present a physical threat to other people.

      In a case such as this, while he may have caused damage and made some money off it, a significant fine would be ample. I mean its not like he is a danger to society if he doesn't get locked away.

    4. Re:Lucky guy by plaxion · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It would have been nice if he had gotten 1 second for every email. That wouldn't landed him roughly 3 years (2.917). Then the judge could've said to him "You've earned every second of your term".

    5. Re:Lucky guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Mh? You delete 175 mails per second and only hit spams? You are quite efficent then.

      Personally I think he ought to have gotten 15 years, but it's a start.

    6. Re:Lucky guy by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 1

      He inconvenienced a lot of people, stole data while effectively framing a colleague for the crime and passed on data knowing full well what it was going to be used for. He's old enough as well to know when he's breaking the law.

      I'd say he did deserve a few years. I'd expect though for him to get out after maybe a year or so.

      The thought of spending time in a nasty prison has got to be a pretty good deterrent against white-collar crime.

      I suppose though this opens the argument about whether the judicial system should be punishing crimes or tryin to persuade people to stay honest.

      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
    7. Re:Lucky guy by term8or · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The thought of spending time in a nasty prison has got to be a pretty good deterrent against white-collar crime.

      Actually, the fact that you can't get a white-collar job for years after you get out of prison is more of a detterant.

      --



      "As a writer / novelist you might want to spellcheck your sig. :) " - AC
    8. Re:Lucky guy by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 1

      True. Even without the prison time, he's got a criminal record and a reputation for dishonesty and being unable to work with confidential information. By rights, his IT career should be dead and buried.

      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
    9. Re:Lucky guy by indifferent+children · · Score: 2, Funny

      To be fair, the only people who got 'hurt' by all of that spam were AOL users. Let's all repeat the helpdesk mantra: Stupidity should be painful.

      --
      Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
    10. Re:Lucky guy by rayde · · Score: 1

      Michael Bolton: If we get caught, we're not going to white-collar resort prison. No, no, no. We're going to federal POUND ME IN THE ASS prison.
      Samir: I don't want to go to ANY prison!

    11. Re:Lucky guy by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 1
      I get:
      %units 15months/92million seconds
      * 0.42876258
      so a bit under 1/2 second per email address (without subtracting out time for good behavior).
      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
    12. Re:Lucky guy by TGK · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hate to say it, but given the responce from people here over Kevin Mitnick's conviction, I'd say that a life - or very long sentence - prohibiting the use of certain technologies would be an adequate deterant.

      Sure, Kevin got a bum rap - and I don't want to drag up that debate, so if you think I'm full of crap just let it drop on that count - but his sentence gave most of us pause.

      I'm not saying that a sentence like that would do a hell of a lot for the kind of white collar crime you see in accounting and other diciples of its ilk, but in the IT industry that kind of sentence could go a long way.

      --
      Killfile(TGK)
      No trees were killed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were inconvenienced.
    13. Re:Lucky guy by StarvingSE · · Score: 1

      I think all spammers deserve to spend osme time in the federal PMITA prison.......

      No conjugal visits either...

      --
      I got nothin'
    14. Re:Lucky guy by Idarubicin · · Score: 1
      That assumes that the people he sold the names to (and whoever else might have received them downstream) only used them once.

      Er, no.

      The article summary says that the ninety-two million stolen addresses spawned an estimated seven billion spam messages. That's an estimated 76 messages per address.

      7,000,000,000 emails times 1/175 seconds/email equals 40,000,000 seconds, which equals a bit more than fifteen months. (Alternately you could look at it as 0.43 seconds per stolen address.)

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    15. Re:Lucky guy by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Doesn't PMITA imply conjugal visits? :-)

    16. Re:Lucky guy by KUHurdler · · Score: 1

      I think we should all take the time to sign him up for a free trial AOL CD. Anyone know his cellblock address?

      --
      Fix Your Own TV - RiddledTV.com Avoid the Landfill
    17. Re:Lucky guy by teckels · · Score: 1

      There are different levels of prisons for different levels of crimes. His crime is considered white collar and he will be sent to a prison camp or honor farm. Most likely it won't even have a fence, but he will not have his freedom. He will have a lot of rules to live by or he will be sent to the next level of security. That is what keeps an honor farm in order, the knowledge that it can get much worse very easily.

      As far as his length of sentense, I think that he is getting off exceptionally light. I used to work in a prison, and I've seen people in prison for crimes that effected FAR fewer people. Like someone who gets 3 years for possesion of drugs "not for sale" federal on property. This guy did something that effects everyone "corporate and personal alike" and costs our economy billions of dollars, and our internet terabytes of bandwidth every year.

      15 years does not send the message to these people "this kind of behavior is unaceptable". The Judge should be ashamed for giving such a wussy sentence.

  3. define irony by Fox_1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Obligatory Family Guy joke: "Remember last week when you asked me to define irony and I said - urarghhh!" AOL personally kept me supplied with floppy disks during my school dayz, and many a cd coaster when I started working IT. These guys are the king of snail mail spam (virus(AOL8) laden cd's anyone :) and here this guy goes and follows their lead online, further screwing over the poor AOL customers. I love it.

    --
    The rock, the vulture, and the chain
    1. Re:define irony by davmoo · · Score: 1

      But there is a difference.

      When AOL sends their crap through snail mail, AOL themselves is paying for it to be sent.

      When spammers send their email, they are using bandwidth that other people have to pay for.

      --
      I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
    2. Re:define irony by Mantus · · Score: 1

      I would argue that since the USPS historicly has lost money, particulaly several years ago (before priority mail began to boom with online stores) that your argument isn't 100% true.

    3. Re:define irony by Fox_1 · · Score: 1

      In this case the spam was going to AOL customers, so AOL was paying for it :) but I aknowledge your point.

      --
      The rock, the vulture, and the chain
    4. Re:define irony by anagama · · Score: 1
      The cost of postage does not represent the true cost of the disc. It obviously only represents the mailing cost.

      Costs not included in postage include
      • the cost of maintaining a work force of refuse collectors,
      • the equipment they use to transport trash,
      • the cost of landfills to hold the trash,
      • the environmental costs not paid by the disc manufacturers in producing the discs.
      I'm sure the list could go on. What is important is that it is taxpayers -- not AOL, who pay these costs. AOL's snail mail spam shifts costs just as much, perhaps even more, than common spam.
      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    5. Re:define irony by dakryx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The snail mail version of spam is what essentially finances the USPS, without it your typical letter would cost much more to send.

    6. Re:define irony by dakryx · · Score: 1

      If you want to be technical it is you who has to pay for garbage collection unless you live in an apartment, either way the cost is passed on to you.

    7. Re:define irony by Ctrl-Z · · Score: 1

      Yes, you, as the taxpayer. Unless you have to pay direct garbage collection fees (and I know that I, as a homeowner, do not--YMMV), the parent's point is still valid.

      --
      www.timcoleman.com is a total waste of your time. Never go there.
    8. Re:define irony by Baloo+Ursidae · · Score: 1
      When AOL sends their crap through snail mail, AOL themselves is paying for it to be sent.

      Since when has the USPS not been heavily government subsidized for bulk-rate delivery? Since when has AOL been sending their spam through anything other than USPS bulk-rate postage?

      So, who pays when AOL (or anybody else) spams? You do, in higher postage, taxes, and garbage collection! Congress got it wrong: CAN-SPAM should have applied to snail mail. Law is considerably more effective to meatspace crime than cyberspace crime.

      --
      Help us build a better map!
  4. Hypothetical Prison Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    The setting: Prison cafeteria.

    Prisoner #1: So what're you in for?
    Prisoner #2: Aggravated assault. You?
    Prisoner #1: Armed robbery. How 'bout you?
    AOL Engineer: I stole 92 million screen names and e-mail addresses and sold them to spammers who sent out up to 7 billion unsolicited e-mail messages.
    Prisoners #1 and 2 inch away from AOL Engineer at the lunch table

    1. Re:Hypothetical Prison Conversation by mhearne · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If I had to go to jail for a cybercrime, I would at least want the other inmates to understand the charge.

      15 months really isn't that bad, he'll probably do a third of that with good time (5 months). But he'll have to be on probation for years, and nobody worth working for is going to want to let him do anything more than stuff resistors in circuit boards.

      The trouble that comes after prison is often worse than doing the time itself.

      Michael

    2. Re:Hypothetical Prison Conversation by aaronrp · · Score: 1

      "... till I said, 'And creating a nuisance.' And they all came back, shook my hand, and we had a great time on the bench, talkin' about crime ..."

    3. Re:Hypothetical Prison Conversation by eric76 · · Score: 1
      he'll probably do a third of that with good time (5 months)

      I don't think so.

      My understanding is that when you are sentenced to X months at a federal facility, you spend X months there. There are no early releases or paroles.

      That assumes, of course, that he doesn't have a smart lawyer trying to overturn it.

    4. Re:Hypothetical Prison Conversation by mcmonkey · · Score: 1
      Prisoner #1: So what're you in for?
      Prisoner #2: Aggravated assault. You?
      Prisoner #1: Armed robbery. How 'bout you?
      AOL Engineer: I stole 92 million screen names and e-mail addresses and sold them to spammers who sent out up to 7 billion unsolicited e-mail messages.
      Prisoners #1 and 2 inch away from AOL Engineer at the lunch table

      AOL Engineer: And disturbing the peace.
      Prisoners #1 and 2 slap the AOL Engineer on the back and all have a good laugh.

    5. Re:Hypothetical Prison Conversation by ne0nex · · Score: 1

      have a good laugh? more like shank his sorry ass... Prisoner 1: Shit, my mah tells me about that shit all the time, drives her ass crazy getting all that spam. Take this BITCH!

    6. Re:Hypothetical Prison Conversation by i+wanted+another+nam · · Score: 1

      AOL Engineer: ...and creating a public nuisance.
      Prisoners #1 and 2 sigh in relief and resume their positions

      --
      The image is a dream, the beauty is real. Can you see the difference?
    7. Re:Hypothetical Prison Conversation by bladernr · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You never know about people's motives in harmless crimes like this.

      So he was poor. The crime was harmess. The others involved have better attorneys.. He needed the money. You paint a very sympathetic picture.

      However, for any society to live under the rule of law, its citizens do not get to select which laws they obey, and which their circumstances mean don't apply.

      My first job out of school in 1993 paid $25k ($32k today, considering inflation), and I had student loans, rent, a car note, insurance, etc. I got by, without resorting to credit cards, and even managed to save a very small amount as a cushion. I didn't think it was within my rights to improve my situation by illegal means, but I guess if guys like you were in power, I could have just robbed the local bank and said "hey, I'm poor and need the money" if caught.

      --
      Sarcasm and hyperbole are the final refuges for weak minds
    8. Re:Hypothetical Prison Conversation by slashdotnickname · · Score: 1

      So his salary was somewhere in the ballpark of 28 to 30k per year. Dude was poor. Particularly for a software engineer. Why else do you think he made a grab at all those screen names for a measly 28k? So he could come up a little bit or pay off his student loans (assuming he had any). Maybe his grandpa had cancer and he was trying to help. You never know about people's motives in harmless crimes like this.

      Or, as described in the indictment to pay for a 9-day vacation to Scandinavia.

      Plus Smathers even admitted he was an "outlaw", and never mentions any selfless motives in all his court statements.

      This is a typical story of the little guy getting the shaft.

      True, soon enough... with a soft body molded by years of being infront of computers, I suspect he'll be getting plenty of shaft while serving his prison sentence.

    9. Re:Hypothetical Prison Conversation by Afrosheen · · Score: 1

      I, for one, welcome our crack smoking moderator overlords.

        You're right, there's something we're missing to this story, namely the defendant's side. If they really wanted to punish this guy, rather than jail time, they should have put him in an AOL forced labor camp i.e. AOL tech support. He'd get a pathetic wage, get treated like a number, work unreasonable shifts, and be bored out of his skull. Prison is a vacation compared to an AOL call center.

        I appreciate your comment. I had no idea the moderators would react the way they did to my devil's advocate post.

    10. Re:Hypothetical Prison Conversation by i.r.id10t · · Score: 1

      And so there we sat on the Group W bench...

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
  5. Further details / This looks strangely familiar by securitas · · Score: 4, Informative


    AOL E-mail Data Thief Gets 15 Months in Prison

    AP's Larry Neumeister reports that the AOL employee who sold 92 million stolen e-mail addresses and screen names to spammers has been sentenced to one year and three months in prison. Jason Smathers sold the list to spammers for $28,000, who then proceeded to send as many as 7 billion spam messages. The prosecutor in the case estimated 'AOL suffered a loss of 10 cents for every 1,000 spam e-mails sent to subscribers.' The judge suggested that Smathers pay $84,000 in restitution but will decide on the final figure after AOL files details of financial losses due to increased staff, hardware and software costs. An interesting note: Judge Alvin Hellerstein said in December that he canceled his AOL subscription because he received too much spam.

    2005-08-17 21:42:32 AOL E-mail Data Thief Gets 15 Months in Prison (Index,Spam) (rejected)

    1. Re:Further details / This looks strangely familiar by Deitheres · · Score: 1

      You're expecting /. editors to........ edit?

      You must be new here.

      --
      Just like driving a car:
      (D) to go forward
      (R) to go backward

    2. Re:Further details / This looks strangely familiar by larry+bagina · · Score: 2, Funny

      really? I submitted a story once and they changed the hyperlinks, changed the text, changed who the story was from, and they even changed what the story was about.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

  6. So... by Lally+Singh · · Score: 5, Funny

    How many years are AOL's management getting for... well, managing AOL.

    --
    Care about electronic freedom? Consider donating to the EFF!
    1. Re:So... by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1

      They should be banned from this planet for suggesting the mass production of 8 trillion AOL CDs a year to everyone's mailbox every state every day. Which probably attract 1 customer out of 100 free CDs.

    2. Re:So... by nmb3000 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Which probably attract 1 customer out of 100 free CDs.

      1 in 100? I have to think the return on those discs is way lower than 1 in 100. I'd put it at more like 5,000 discs in return for a single year-long contract.

      *Maybe* 1 in 100 will put the disc in the drive, perhaps 1 in 500 will begin the trial. However, once the 10 million hours of free* Internet access expire, I expect very few will pony up the $21.95 or whatever the hell they're charging for "special" Internet today.

      *10 million hours of free slower-than-hell dialup access expire 10 days after activation. Social security number, date of birth, full name, and valid credit card with a minimum of $20,000 credit limit required. AOL reserves the right to do whatever the hell we want, anytime, anywhere. By agreeing to these terms, you acknowledge you are a complete dumbass.

      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
    3. Re:So... by Neticulous · · Score: 1

      "10 million hours of free slower-than-hell dialup access expire 10 days after activation. Social security number, date of birth, full name, and valid credit card with a minimum of $20,000 credit limit required. AOL reserves the right to do whatever the hell we want, anytime, anywhere. By agreeing to these terms, you acknowledge you are a complete dumbass."

      The sad thing is, I would probably click 'next'...

    4. Re:So... by stry_cat · · Score: 1
      However, once the 10 million hours of free* Internet access expire, I expect very few will pony up the $21.95 or whatever the hell they're charging for "special" Internet today.


      They will b/c they are lazy. My mother hapily renewed b/c the salesman on the cancelation line convinced her to stay. By that point all of her friends knew her AOL address. She was too scared to changed. How would her friends reach her? What about all that great content? She was worried that a new ISP might break her computer. She didn't even know there were other ISPs. It took 3 more months for me to nag her before she moved to cheaper ISP and she only switched b/c I refused to accept email from AOL.

      Even now I worry she'll fall for the ploy - "we're still holding on to your screen name, come back now or someone else will get it."

      AOL is just scum.

  7. Why jail? by Eightyford · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've never understood why non-violent criminals are even put into jail. Instead of us taxpayers paying about 25 grand a year for this guy(a number I pulled directly out of my ass, by the way); he should be forced to repay the damage that he has done. And, if it takes the rest of his life, then so be it; just don't let the guy declare bankruptcy (another thing I've never really understood).

    Anyways, save jail for the murderers, rapists, and child molesters of the world. Make people like this guy, Martha Stewart, and Bernie Ebbers repay they're debt in other more productive ways.

    1. Re:Why jail? by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Repayment is only a deterrent if the perp has been less than successful. A millionaire spammer (Richter?) could consider that just the cost of business, and be on his merry way.

    2. Re:Why jail? by Eightyford · · Score: 1

      I agree for the worst offenders like Dahmer, Homolka, Michael Jackson etc. But only if the evidence against them is 100%. It's easy to let someone wrongfully accused out of prison. Not so easy to voodoo them back to like a la Weekend at Bernies 2.

      JK about MJ by the way.

    3. Re:Why jail? by log2.0 · · Score: 1

      Bankruptcy is just a social safety net. What if someone sued you for $5 mil and won on something that wasn't really your fault. Assuming you dont have $5 mil, you can go bankrupt, suffer for a few years and you're out. Otherwise you would have to sell yourself as a slave or something else just as stupid :)

      --
      Can your karma go above being Excellent?
    4. Re:Why jail? by Eightyford · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Right, but what if he has to give up all of his money? Sounds fair to me.

    5. Re:Why jail? by Silent1 · · Score: 1

      don't forget pot smokers, the real killers!

    6. Re:Why jail? by value_added · · Score: 5, Interesting

      just don't let the guy declare bankruptcy (another thing I've never really understood)

      Such debts can't be discharged in bankruptcy court.

    7. Re:Why jail? by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1

      Even the offshore accounts, in his brother-in-law's name?

    8. Re:Why jail? by Seumas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's why all the guys who ran Enron and Worldcom are in jail.

      Oh, wait...

    9. Re:Why jail? by mar1no · · Score: 1

      So charge him millions instead...

      --
      "you sonofabitch i didn't know!"
    10. Re:Why jail? by Lord+Apolon · · Score: 1

      I think exactly the same thing every time I see one of these stories. You even have the same solution that I have... Let the punishment fit the crime. Paying for their crime, literally, is a far better solution than jail time, which only costs society. Especially if the price they have to pay is, say, double the amount of monetary harm they caused. That should serve as something of a deterrent. Jail should only be for violent criminals, people who present a physical threat to individuals or society. Glad to find I'm not the only one who doesn't start foaming at the mouth whenever spammer cases come up. Eightyford, I salute you.

    11. Re:Why jail? by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      punishment is for children and dogs. People who break the rules of society should be excluded from society. In the old days of the city state that ment shoving them out the front gate to wander the wastelands. Today it means locking them in prison.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    12. Re:Why jail? by JohnsonWax · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Repayment would be a deterrent if it were proportional to the crime. It's part of the reason why RICO provides for 2x damages. If you made $10M as a spammer and had to repay $20M, even successful criminals would be deterred.

      I work hard and don't mind paying taxes for the benefits I receive, but money earned in the conviction of a crime should be returned to those it came from *and* an equal sum paid to the taxpayers for having to put up with the assholes in the first place.

      I sure wouldn't mind if Ebbers and Co. could be compelled to put $11B into the local, state, and federal coffers. If they can't pay up, I'm sure there are some boys in Fallujah who wouldn't mind giving up their place for a fellow citizen who needs a good way to repay their debt to society.

    13. Re:Why jail? by dal20402 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I agree with you that, in general, too many people are in jail.

      But in cases of very costly (to the rest of us) and profitable (to the perp) white-collar crime, there is very little else that can serve as a deterrent. White-collar criminals tend to have a different attitude from low-level drug offenders: they aren't desperate or sick, and don't even recognize that what they're doing is wrong. Instead, they feel no guilt about gaming the system in any way possible (speaking in generalities, of course).

      If you fine them, they'll hide their money (as another poster said). If you try to leverage their knowledge, they'll fail to cooperate. As long as you let them have their freedom, they'll find a way to beat you. The way to make them think twice is to take away their freedom.

      If we put one white-collar perp in jail for every five low-level drug offenders we let out and put into intensive treatment programs, we'd make the market a more honest place and solve a lot of social problems at the same time.

    14. Re:Why jail? by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 1

      Good answer.

      In my view, the police and justice system exist to minimize the cost of (crime+police+justice). Prison acts as a deterent, and keeps dangerous people out of harm's way. Fines act as a deterent and restitution.

      Prison is appropriate for dangerous criminals, and when fines or other punishment do not provide sufficient deterent. In the case of non-violent financial crime, fines are insufficient if the criminal has little money to take (and, if you're into indentured servitude, as the grandparent seems to be, little future earnings potential) and/or the gain is seen to be sufficiently large, and chance of being caught sufficiently small.

      --
      Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
    15. Re:Why jail? by isorox · · Score: 1

      Repayment is only a deterrent if the perp has been less than successful.

      Not if repayment is picking up highway trash for $5/hour. Cause $1,000 damage, work for 200 hours (say 8 hours a week for the next 6 months or something). No option to pay it off, you have to do the work.

    16. Re:Why jail? by shotgunefx · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, the biggest scam artists are white collar criminals who do the littlest time. Look at most of the people busted in the WorldCom scandal. Most of them got off with under two years.

      Granny getting goat porn is wrong, her retirement (and tens of thousands of others) being wiped out, a thousand times worse.

      Not saying this guy shouldn't do time though.

      --

      -William Shatner can be neither created nor destroyed.
    17. Re:Why jail? by markass530 · · Score: 1

      If the only threat is monetary, this won't deter a lot of the sons of bitches. Spending several years in a federal pound-you-in-the-ass prison should. I think it should be two fold. First the prison sentence (where they work) and then working off the cost of their imprisonement.

    18. Re:Why jail? by chris_sawtell · · Score: 1
      Make people like this guy, Martha Stewart, and Bernie Ebbers repay their debts in other more productive ways.

      While I'm in full agreement with your feelings, the trouble with that form of punishment is that it is impossible for an individual person to legally generate the level of capital required for complete restitution. So they do what they think they can do to get the money as quickly as possible, and get stuck into another round of theft to pay off the debts from the first round. Do we really want that?

      My own feeling is that they should be compelled to do a long stretch of "Good Works" (tm), such as teaching hundreds of convicted felons to read for the minimum wage.

    19. Re:Why jail? by Frogbert · · Score: 1

      Couldn't they, I don't know, ramp up the fine depending on how much the guy was worth?

    20. Re:Why jail? by TarryTops · · Score: 1

      I agree with this guy 100%!

      --
      Java Oracle Linux Enthusiast
    21. Re:Why jail? by Adammil2000 · · Score: 1

      Put the violent criminals in jail.

      Send the white-collar criminals to the prison daily to clean the prison toilets, serve food to inmates, and teach their classes. They just don't sleep and shower there out of concern that they won't live through it.

    22. Re:Why jail? by klui · · Score: 1

      After Enron, MCI Worldcom, etc. I would gladly hear that those assholes at the top serve 10 years in federal prison in addition to repaying all the damages.

      I heard that an EVP of some bank in China got caught for doing basically the same thing and he got the death penalty. He decided to return all the money he stole hoping the courts would be more lenient but his sentence was only postponed by 2 years. How's that for a deterrent? I'm not saying I totally agree with his sentence but when I hear about people with $ getting away with all sorts of shit, a part of me kinda think "why not?"

    23. Re:Why jail? by Andy_R · · Score: 3, Funny

      He should have his own designated bit of highway, so the rest of us know where to throw out our junkmailed AOL cds.

      --
      A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
    24. Re:Why jail? by ChrisF79 · · Score: 1

      I see where you're coming from but bankruptcy makes sense from an economics standpoint. The economy needs businesses but businesses are huge risks for individuals to start--the number of businesses that succeed and continue in business are very small in proportion to the number of businesses started.

      Bankruptcy gives people a safety net so to speak in starting a business. Without it, the risks would be far too great and there would be far fewer businesses. Mind you, bankruptcy is a last resort and nobody wants to go through with that. There are steep penalties involved, but having your credit report damaged for seven years is far less severe than being homeless.

      --
      Finance tutorials and more! Understandfinance
    25. Re:Why jail? by Phrack · · Score: 1
      there is very little else that can serve as a deterrent

      Nothing like a good ol' flogging. AND removing their current net worth. Not just a repayment.. all of it.

      --
      Dump the IRS - http://www.fairtax.org
    26. Re:Why jail? by indifferent+children · · Score: 1
      If you made $10M as a spammer and had to repay $20M, even successful criminals would be deterred.

      Can you think of any legal way for this guy to earn the other $10M? At my relatively-highly-paid IT job, I can figure making about $3M (2005 dollars) in my career. Fining someone $10M who isn't uber-rich is silly. Amazon patent class silly. You might as well making 'curing cancer' part of the guy's sentence.

      If they can't pay up, I'm sure there are some boys in Fallujah ...

      You really don't seem to have much respect for our troops. Most of these guys aren't rocket scientists, but they are highly trained and skilled professionals. If you want to shoot a spammer in the head, do it. But don't inflict that loser on a platoon of honest troops; it could get them all killed.

      --
      Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
    27. Re:Why jail? by TGK · · Score: 1

      They're highly trained and skilled professionals - but skilled in a profession that is more or less the lowest common denominator of our species.

      I'm not saying it doesn't need to be done, just that humans are pretty good at killing stuff - it's something we're born with.

      Unlike the position of Aeronautical Engineer, anyone can be trained to be an infantryman. That's the point. That's why we had a draft for a while.

      I doubt the GP is saying that the poor sap should be handed a rifle and shipped to Iraq, but military service could be an excelent manner in which to repay your society for debts incurred.

      --
      Killfile(TGK)
      No trees were killed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were inconvenienced.
    28. Re:Why jail? by TGK · · Score: 1

      Me Too!

      (Obligitory AOL joke - kind of shocked I haven't seen one yet)

      --
      Killfile(TGK)
      No trees were killed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were inconvenienced.
    29. Re:Why jail? by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Interesting

      there is very little else that can serve as a deterrent.

      Let me think...

      Beheading. Public humiliation (stockades, or something similar). A tattoo on the forehead. Deportation. Loss of driver's license. An intense chemical or physical sensory overload such as being confined with a horrible smell or intense low frequency sound that is nauseating. Flogging.

      No, I'm not a sadist, but I did come up with all of these off the top of my head.

      Jail and prison are the adult version of being sent to your room when you were a child. The unfortunate thing is that unlike when you were a child, there are others with you.

      Actually, besides beheading and the intense sensory thing, all of the other techniques are used in raising children all the time. I don't understand the insistence on incarceration for any legal infraction. Especially when one looks at the data and realizes that it does little to modify the behavior of the person.

    30. Re:Why jail? by r1_97 · · Score: 1

      Like punitive damages, you base the award on an amount which will punish the wrongdoer. I can assure you that taking all his property will be a deterrant to other big time spammers who will not just on on their merry way.

    31. Re:Why jail? by shrubya · · Score: 1

      How's that for a deterrent?

      They tried that method in England a few hundred years ago. The result was that theft continued apace, but victims & witnesses were usually murdered instead of let go. Same punishment, less chance of getting caught.

    32. Re:Why jail? by CarrionBird · · Score: 1

      To punish him. To make him hurt as possible within the bounds of law.

      --
      Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
    33. Re:Why jail? by Mikkeles · · Score: 1
      'And, if it takes the rest of his life, then so be it; just don't let the guy declare bankruptcy ....'

      In many jurisdictions, court appointed awards (e.g. child-support, restitution) are not subject to bankrupcy proceedings; only actual creditors are affected.

      --
      Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
  8. That's quite a feat. by Rocky1138 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wonder how he stole them? And how long did it take for him to give them back? Did they ever find them?

  9. The truth of the matter is... by jhfry · · Score: 4, Insightful

    of those 92 million, only about 2 million actually use aol mail... the rest are people who used up thier free trial and moved on.

    I mean seriously, you expect me to believe that AOL has 92 million paying customers?

    Honestly if I were a spammer, I'd only pay half price for AOL addresses, the odds of someone reading your email (especially after filtering) is nearly zero.

    --
    Sometimes the best solution is to stop wasting time looking for an easy solution.
    1. Re:The truth of the matter is... by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      92 million screennames. A lot unused, of course, but each paying account can, and often does, have several screen names/email addresses. Each sucking down all that glorious spam.

    2. Re:The truth of the matter is... by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 5, Informative
      I mean seriously, you expect me to believe that AOL has 92 million paying customers?

      Not if you'd RTFA, and noticed where it said "The stolen list of 92 million AOL addresses included multiple addresses used by each of AOL's estimated 30 million customers."

    3. Re:The truth of the matter is... by ethx1 · · Score: 1

      I have never used AOL but don't ISPs let you register an email address with them regardless of who the email provider is. They just want a way to reach you. Maybe that's what this guy sold, the email addresses they had on file.

    4. Re:The truth of the matter is... by michaelhood · · Score: 1

      And somewhat ironically IMHO, in lead generation AOL users are the highest converting-to-sale leads. We're consistently trying to attract more, through ad placement.

  10. a quote from Heavy Metal popped into my head by zephc · · Score: 3, Funny

    "He's nothing but a low-down, double-dealing, backstabbing, larcenous perverted worm! Hanging's too good for him. Burning's too good for him! He should be torn into little bitsy pieces and buried alive!"

    Indeed.

    --
    "I would say that 99 per cent of what my father has written about his own life is false." - L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
  11. Lemme get this straight by DSP_Geek · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Kevin Mitnick prowls around some machines, steals nothing, damages nothing, yet spends four years in jail waiting for his trial, gets a five year sentence, and has to stay away from computers for another few years, while this fucknuts steals a subscriber list for spammers and gets a slap on the wrist? Doesn't even have to stay away from other people's mail servers? Riiight.

    1. Re:Lemme get this straight by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      All I can say is Kevin Who?

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    2. Re:Lemme get this straight by firewrought · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Mitnick didn't steal anything? Mitnick allegedly copied and removed....software valued at $2,100,000.00.

      I hate to take Kevin's side on this because his actions were illegal and immoral. However, it's very important to accurately appraise the costs (financial, emotional, cultural, etc.) of a crime. If the costs are exaggerated then justice is miscarried, tax money is misspent, the public is misserved, and third parties--such as policy makers, security analysts, and insurance companies--are misinformed.

      The $2.1 billion number represents the cost to make the software. If Mitnick merely made an unauthorized copy, burned it to CD, and shoved it in a drawer somewhere, what part of that $2.1 billion did the companies lose? None. Nada. Business would continue uninterrupted.

      Alternatively, suppose that Mitnick managed to destroy every copy of the software that the company owned. That would make the $2.1 billion a much more accurate assessment. The business could go bankrupt.

      And then there's the middle ground... what about leaking secrets to competitors or providing binaries to black-market distributors? These are things that chip away at that $2.1 billion, but it's unlikely they erode it completely.

      Of course, we haven't discussed administrative costs associated with mopping up and responding to the Mitnick incidents. We haven't factored in the intangible losses to privacy or even the hidden gains that might have come from the crime (e.g., if benign criminals attack you early and force you to beef up your security before the truly malignant ones arrive, haven't you inadvertly made money?)

      A true valuation is perhaps impossible, but we can be more accurate than to assume that the unauthorized copying of private/proprietary information is directly equivalent to the theft of physical goods.

      --
      -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
    3. Re:Lemme get this straight by tnk1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh yeah, the problem with Mitnick is no one knew what to do with him, so they overreacted. I mean everyone thought he was going to hack into the WOPR and play a game of global thermonuclear war. :) Today, its a bit different because we know that crap only happens in movies. Back then, though, it was different.

      Mitnick also really had skills and the ability to break *into* things he wasn't associated with. This dude downloaded the member database using his internal knowledge and some other people's access. There really wasn't any threat of Sir Spamalot here breaking into the Defense Department. Mitnick probably couldn't do that either, but at least he could have made a real attempt at it if he'd been so inclined.

      In the end, this guy did more damage, but he's basically a screw up that isn't worth the FBIs time to violate his rights. He did what probably dozens of AOL employees could do if they decided to do without their conscience or ethics. He effectively shoplifted from his own store. Big deal.

    4. Re:Lemme get this straight by Ann+Elk · · Score: 1
      ...steals a subscriber list for spammers and gets a slap on the wrist?

      He's going to jail. I don't think it's his wrist that's going to be slapped.

    5. Re:Lemme get this straight by PhucYuew · · Score: 1

      While I don't know much about the Mitnick fiasco, I completely agree with this assessment...almost...I can't help but point out one slight problem with your diatribe on this "exaggerated" appraisal. Last time I checked...

      $2.1 billion != $2,100,000.00

    6. Re:Lemme get this straight by CalCudahy · · Score: 1

      Another cost you might want to consider is a security audit. Some article I read once by a guy at Digital said that they had to go over every line of the VAX/VMS source after he accessed it to make sure nothing was altered. Yeah, maybe he was curious and just looked at the source, but as a company how can you know? All development has to stop (expensive!) and a massive security audit has to be conducted.

      --
      "I think the U.N. is going to find that the blame lies with all the Sudanese rap music that glamorizes genocide."
  12. What's his cellmate's name and address? by www.sorehands.com · · Score: 5, Funny
    I think we all should send his cellmate bottles of penis enlargment pills, viagra, cialis, cialis soft tabs, Jackrabbit vibrators, and everything else we get from spam.

    All in the name of poetic justice.

    1. Re:What's his cellmate's name and address? by Eightyford · · Score: 5, Funny

      There's no way in hell that I'm sending him the money I'm getting from my new Nigerian friend!

      It should be here any day now...

    2. Re:What's his cellmate's name and address? by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      Well if my modpoints hadn't expired I'd have given you a +1 funny.

    3. Re:What's his cellmate's name and address? by Deodat · · Score: 2, Funny

      Do you really think they're ever going to give you that money? It's local pickup only!

    4. Re:What's his cellmate's name and address? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      prison rape is not funny.

  13. Just curious by hackstraw · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Does anybody actually know the charge he was convicted of? I looked at the article and it mentioned pleas and taking "stolen property" across state lines, and CAN-SPAM, but none of these were clear as to what he was actually convicted of.

    Anybody?

    1. Re:Just curious by shmlco · · Score: 1

      Right. How can all those bits and bytes be "stolen property"? Every single one of those AOL members still has their screen name and email address... ;)

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    2. Re:Just curious by SlayerofGods · · Score: 1

      I looked up the case on pacer (the US courts online management system) not all the documents are imaged (particularly the complaint) online but from the headers of the case it looks like he was charge with
      Conspiracy to Defraud the United States
      Scheme to Defraud: Money, State Tax Stamps (Trafficking in stolen Property)

      The case number is
      1:04-cr-01273-AKH-ALL
      and 01314
      In case anyone wants to look it up and has a pacer account.

      --

      Technology, the cause of and solution to all of life's problems.
  14. Everyone All At Once Now... by jpiggot · · Score: 4, Funny

    "You've Got Jail !"

    1. Re:Everyone All At Once Now... by mbadolato · · Score: 1

      Actually, being that it's prison, wouldn't it be more like "You've Got MALE!"

    2. Re:Everyone All At Once Now... by morcheeba · · Score: 1

      You need the link with that:

      "You've got Jail !"

      (from the daily feed)

  15. What else could you say? by DoubleRing · · Score: 1

    "I know I've done something very wrong,"

    Come on, what else could you say...
    "I just stole 92 million email addresses and sold them...sorry guys, I didn't know what I was doing."

    --
    Before you die, you see DoubleRing...
    1. Re:What else could you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      "I aided spammers, but they only hurt AOL users, what's wrong with that?"

  16. Maybe not... by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 2, Funny
    But, as soon as he drops the soap once, I'm sure that you wont think he's too lucky anymore!

    He's NOT that cute.

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
  17. Camp Cupcake by __aamcgs2220 · · Score: 3, Funny

    He better pray for solitary confinement. Bubba and his posse are all fiercely loyal AOL users and they don't NEED no \/i@GR@ or Ci@li5.

    1. Re:Camp Cupcake by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      You have to admit though; he DID follow through on that "New friend" mail he sent 'em.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  18. Oh come on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    what's the point in selling 92 million email address? any dictionary attack worth it's weight will have found 80%+ of those accounts anyway... with 92 million of these suckers, any @ aol.com will almost certainly come up with a match, or at least a partial match.

    1. Re:Oh come on... by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1
      what's the point in selling 92 million email address?

      Making $28,000 from a fool who is setting up an offshore gambling site.

    2. Re:Oh come on... by fmwap · · Score: 1

      any dictionary attack worth it's weight will have found 80%+ of those accounts anyway

      Uhm, no...
      e-mail usernames are hardly EVER in a dictionary, because they're usually abbreviations or otherwise obsecured.

      any <random_string_of_characters> @ aol.com will almost certainly come up with a match

      A brute force attack would never find 80% of those emails, at least not in any reasonable amount of time. I mean figure it out, figuring at base 36, to account for letters and numbers, a six character username yields 2,176,782,336 possibilities.
      Now, if you were to send 1 email to each address every second, it would take you 2176782336/(24*60*60) = 25,194 days, or just over 69 years to send to each of those addresses, and that's only for all combinations of 1-6 character usernames.

      come up with a match, or at least a partial match.

      What the hell is a partial match? Last time I checked, e-mail addresses can't contain wildcards.

      Damn, I guess I won't be moderating now....

    3. Re:Oh come on... by nzkbuk · · Score: 1

      Now, if you were to send 1 email to each address every second
      Thats why there is Cc and Bcc

    4. Re:Oh come on... by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      what's the point in selling 92 million email address? any dictionary attack worth it's weight will have found 80%+ of those accounts anyway...

      The simple fact is you could toss out 92million adverts to random names and only get a percent that are active accounts, or you could pay a good sum of money and get 92million real active addresses. I could only assume that who ever paid the tens of thousands of dollars made more than what they spent for the traction.

      That's really it, if spending tens of thousands of dollars makes you hundrads of thousands of dollars or millions... you cough up the investement, no if ands or buts. What I don't understand is these people who buy this stuff they see spammed.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
  19. 15 months is all he got?!? Opinion folks - fair? by ACK!! · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I mean he stole a ton of personal info and stuff.

    There are a lot of hardcore hackers that got a ton more time than that.

    Tell me what you think?

    --
    ACK /ak/ interj. 2. [from the comic strip "Bloom County"] An exclamation of surprised disgust, esp. i
  20. AOL Customors by Azadre · · Score: 1

    For that many people shouldn't he be held responsible for each and everyone of their woes?

  21. bfd by ErichTheWebGuy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    From what I understand, there are several robot programs that go through AOL chat rooms and suck down screen names for use in spam operations. I would suspect that that technique is:

    - more effective, since all of the addresses you gather are known good
    - cheaper, since you can get millions of addresses a week then cancel your free trial
    - less risky

    A spammer that pays that kind of money for such a seemingly worthless list of stolen addresses should look for another line of work.

    --
    bash: rtfm: command not found
    1. Re:bfd by chadbailey · · Score: 1

      $28k is CHEAP for all of those. They /are/ active.... he works for them remember.

    2. Re:bfd by darkfire5252 · · Score: 1

      Somehow I think the engineers at AOL can come up with a better list than trolling chat rooms. They do have all the resources of AOL, you know.

      SELECT e-mail FROM users WHERE spamfiltering=off.

      (heh, my SQL sucks, but you get the idea.)

  22. Time for Master Card Ad: by Comatose51 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Cost in dolars delete spam from your AOL account: $5
    Cost to have CompUSSR repair your PC from spyware: $150
    The look on the spammer's face as he see "Bubba" get a penis enlargement spam: Priceless

    There are some things money can't buy, for everything else there's KARMA!

    --
    EvilCON - Made Famous by /.
  23. Russian Spammer's Meet The Proper Fate by thecaramelsensation · · Score: 2

    Have to wonder...Will he end up like that Russian Spammer? Murdered :)

    I must say, that fate should befall all spammers...

    1. Re:Russian Spammer's Meet The Proper Fate by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      You do know that that murder had nothing to do with his spamming activities, right?

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  24. He got 15 months? by craXORjack · · Score: 4, Funny

    The most I've ever got from AOL was 1 month free.

    --
    Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
    1. Re:He got 15 months? by focitrixilous+P · · Score: 1

      A better penalty would be no internet but AOL for 15 months. Too bad we don't allow cruel and unusual punishments here.

      --
      SAILING MISHAP
  25. MOD PARENT DOWN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Do you think the Baltimore Sun will get slashdotted?

  26. Read TFA by Alomex · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you read TFA you'll see that the AOLer got off easy because he pleaded guilty very early on. In contrast this Kevin Mitnick nitwit is even now trying to play the victim and not really sounding contrite about it.

    1. Re:Read TFA by Moofie · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, we should totally have a legal system where only people who aren't nitwits get due process. Everybody who IS a nitwit should just rot in jail.

      Who picks the nitwits?

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    2. Re:Read TFA by Raypeso · · Score: 1

      Mod this guy up! If you are held for years, and never charged, IT'S NOT POSSIBLE to plead anything! Serial killers have recieved better treatment from the legal system.

    3. Re:Read TFA by MaestroSartori · · Score: 1

      I thought Kevin Mitnick was held without trial for several years? Without a trial, can one actually enter any plea? I don't know the US legal system really, so that's a genuine question :)

    4. Re:Read TFA by Alomex · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wrong. Mitnick originally pleaded guilty and was sentenced accordingly to "a year in a low-security prison and three years of probation" [CNN]. Furthermore, the judge ordered that that he serve his sentence in a halfway house. He violated the terms of his probation and became a fugitive. The second time he was caught he had to continue serving the original sentence, hence no rush to go to trial with the second set of charges. Eventually Mitnick pleaded guilty to the second set of charges. The judge in this case did not have much choice in the length of the sentence since Mitnick was now a repeat offender and fell under the federal sentencing guidelines for those.

      Mitnick was charged for crimes spanning 15 years and four different trials starting in the early eighties and finishing in the late 90s. That he generates so much undeserved sympathy has to be the ultimate meme.

  27. Is Jason Smathers considered to be... by callipygian-showsyst · · Score: 2, Funny
    Is Jason Smathers considered to be megafauna?


    Take a look at his photo so you'll know what I mean....

  28. Sentencing by Elitist_Phoenix · · Score: 1

    This type of person should get a day in jail and fined $2 for every email address they sell.

    Also Spammers should get a day in jail for every email they send and fined $2 as well. Furthermore the should be made to take one viagra pill for every email they sent advertising it.

    --
    "I'm going to f***ing bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to f***ing kill Google"
    1. Re:Sentencing by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      "Furthermore the[y] should be made to take one viagra pill for every email they sent advertising it."

      Nah, that would turn them into "hardened criminals".

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  29. Re:15 months is all he got?!? Opinion folks - fair by Mazem · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It all comes down to fear. People fear "hackers", and so hackers get tougher sentences.

    Everyone understands the notion of an employee stealing personal information from their company. On the other hand, the average
    American has no clue how hardcore hackers do what they do, or what they are capable of and so naturally hackers are feared. They are the "boogey man" of technology.

  30. Next by TRRosen · · Score: 4, Insightful
    what I want to know is when we can expect to hear about the conviction of the spammers he sold to. Obviously due to the size of the database (every AOL member ever apparently) they knew it was stolen. So we should see several spammers charged with 92,000,000 counts of recieving stolen merchandise right???

    OK - no chance of the government being that smart... but it would be nice.

    1. Re:Next by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      Sorry,

      Those resources have been diverted to arrest politicians in Canada that the US disagrees with, and to arrest people that like to have a joint after work.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
  31. Only 15 months? by zenneth · · Score: 1

    This is absurd. What a paltry amount of time to serve for such a hardened thug! There are people who get more time than that for murdering or robbing someone, and that's just sad. When are we going to crack down and show these online hoodlums that crime doesn't pay?

    --
    The Chronic *WHAT* les of Narnia!
  32. Re:KARMA WHORE. by Eightyford · · Score: 1

    Why post anonymously?

  33. You've got male! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I couldn't resist.

  34. Re:Please don't call him an "engineer" by stygar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And most of the people with titles like "software engineer" put just as much time, effort, and money into getting their computer science degrees.

    I'll take "software engineer" off my business card as soon as I see engineering professors stop referring to themselves as "Dr.".

  35. Re:KARMA WHORE. by Potor · · Score: 1

    This is just like spam; nobody would post tfa if there weren't a market for it or an advantage in it ...

  36. Let me propose a more appropriate punshiment... by jcr · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why don't we put this clown in the stocks in the public square of his hometown, and let anyone who's received a spam from his customers slap him upside the head?

    Sure, it might result in a fatal concussion sometime around the fourth of fifth hour of people lining up to smack him, but them's the breaks.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  37. And that's when you say by schestowitz · · Score: 1

    The guy got CANNED, but so did we...

    --
    My Linux - (L)ove (I)s (N)ever (U)tterly eXPensive
  38. Re:Ahh.... by Mahtar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, hilarious. He desereved to be gang raped and/or forced to perform sexual favors for his crime that physicall harmed no one.

    Also I guess I missed where the judge included "rape" in the 15 month jail sentence.

    Internet tough guys, huh?

  39. Conspiracy by jfengel · · Score: 2, Informative

    The article just says "conspiracy", which is pretty vague. I suspect that it means "conspiracy to commit fraud", 18 USC 371, punishable by up to 5 years.

  40. Re:Ahh.... by Mahtar · · Score: 1

    hey let's play the spelling game, I'll go first

    no I lose ;__;

  41. Re:Please don't call him an "engineer" by Tourney3p0 · · Score: 1
    And most of the people with titles like "software engineer" put just as much time, effort, and money into getting their computer science degrees.

    Yeah, and those aren't engineering degrees. So they shouldn't be calling themselves engineers.

    I'll take "software engineer" off my business card as soon as I see engineering professors stop referring to themselves as "Dr.".

    Are these the same people who got their doctorate degrees? If not, I agree. They should take it off. And you should stop calling yourself an engineer.

  42. Welcome by dirtsurfer · · Score: 5, Funny

    You've got jail!

  43. Re:Please don't call him an "engineer" by Detritus · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Are you a P.E.? If not, you aren't legally a "real engineer" in many places.

    Don't stow thrones in grass houses.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  44. I think they'd understand it very well by Moraelin · · Score: 4, Funny

    " If I had to go to jail for a cybercrime, I would at least want the other inmates to understand the charge."

    The public at large may not be experts in some of the more sophisticated crimes, nor in the finer points of intellectual property (e.g., as applied to those database records), but stuff like spam is something you don't need a Ph.D. in CS to understand. If someone doesn't understand, someone else will explain it to them.

    Spammer: "I sold 92 million AOL email addresses to spammers."
    Bubba: "Uh, wot's a spammer"
    Billy Joe: "Bubba, you know those 'enlarge your penis' and 'horny teens waiting for you' messages you told me your little daughter was getting on AOL? This guy told them where to send those."

    Which way it goes from there, I wouldn't know. But from there Bubba understands exactly what the cybercrime was.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:I think they'd understand it very well by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      Now THAT's irony!

      The people he screwed were all AOL members.

      Redneck idiots Bubba and Billy Joe are more likely to be members of AOL than any other ISP.
      And since pretty much everybody has internet these days, one can safely assume they are AOL members.

      So the guy gets screwed back by AOL members!

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  45. Re:Please don't call him an "engineer" by pyrrhonist · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Yeah, and those aren't engineering degrees. So they shouldn't be calling themselves engineers.

    What makes it not an engineering degree?

    I have a BSCS from an engineering school. At an engineering school, the curriculum is basically the same for all students up to junior year. For instance, I took the same science and math courses as the rest of the engineering students. I had to take the same number of science courses as the EEs, and more math courses than the EEs. Some of the more advanced courses are also the same for CS as they are for EE, so some of the courses I took were also EE courses and taught by EE professors. I was, of course, required to take a course in software engineering. In addition, I also had to take a course on the social implications of software engineering, which is something the other engineering disciplines did not have a course comparable to.

    So why is my degree not an engineering degree?

    I still don't call myself an engineer. Back off man, I'm a scientist.

    --
    Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
  46. Dictionary attacks are smarter than that by antispam_ben · · Score: 2, Informative

    They take common names and add three-digit or more extensions just as many acutal AOL users select their names. Start with ann001@aol.com (would anyone used ann000?) through ann999, bill001 thru bill999, to walt001 through walt999, and you can get a bunch of names there. Don't even bother with the bounces, have reply-to point to (poor) ann001. This is not efficient, probably most will bounce, but spammers don't care, especially when the sending bandwidth being abused is some foreign open server.

    --
    Tag lost or not installed.
  47. Furnace for your foe by alphafoo · · Score: 1

    Reminds me of something an old professor of mine would quote whenever someone would wish disproportionate punishment upon a person.

    "Heat not a furnace for your foe so hot that it do singe yourself." - Shakespeare, King Henry VIII

    If we wish murder upon this guy, how medieval should we act toward actual threats to society?

  48. Re:Jason Smathers by Frogbert · · Score: 4, Funny

    Press enter please

  49. Re:Ahh.... by eno2001 · · Score: 1

    Hey sizzlechest. Are you fucking high?

    --
    -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
  50. Re:Please don't call him an "engineer" by DongleFondle · · Score: 1

    "Back off man, I'm a scientist."

    Ghostbusters! I got it, if nobody else did. Fuckin' great.

    Seems to me though, if it were such a prestigious and academic thing to be either an engineer or scientist, those who are wouldn't argue about it this on slashdot . . .

    You've let yourselves slide a little since the good 'ol college days, eh? :-)

  51. Re:15 months is all he got?!? Opinion folks - fair by MrResistor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    He plead guilty and expressed believable remorse for his actions. That's the whole difference. Like it or not, that's how our system works.

    --
    Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
  52. Re:Please don't call him an "engineer" by Tim+C · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And most of the people with titles like "software engineer" put just as much time, effort, and money into getting their computer science degrees.

    And I put just as much time, effort and money into getting my physics degree, but that doesn't make me an engineer. I have friends who similarly invested in their arts degrees - would you call them engineers?

  53. no jail, just punishment by llZENll · · Score: 1

    ya it is stupid to put him in jail, a much better punishment would be to make him hand write a spam message for every spam sent out, or hand type an apology and send it to every email on his list, or be a human spam filter for SA for free for 10000 hours...

  54. Hypothetical Prison Conversation - Part 2 by finelinebob · · Score: 1


    AOL engineer: And creatin' a nuisance . . .

    And they all came back, shook the Engineer's hand, and they had a great time talkin' about crime, aggravated assaultin', armed robberin', . . . all kinds of groovy things that they was talkin' about, and everything was fine.

  55. :-) I hope you too get assraped :~P by Vicsun · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've been sentenced for a D.U.I. offense. My 3rd one. When I first came to prison, I had no idea what to expect. Certainly none of this. I'm a tall white male, who unfortunately has a small amount of feminine characteristics. And very shy. These characteristics have got me raped so many times I have no more feelings physically. I have been raped by up to 5 black men and two white men at a time. I've had knifes at my head and throat. I had fought and been beat so hard that I didn't ever think I'd see straight again. One time when I refused to enter a cell, I was brutally attacked by staff and taken to segragation though I had only wanted to prevent the same and worse by not locking up with my cell mate. There is no supervision after lockdown. I was given a conduct report. I explained to the hearing officer what the issue was. He told me that off the record, He suggests I find a man I would/could willingly have sex with to prevent these things from happening. I've requested protective custody only to be denied. It is not available here. He also said there was no where to run to, and it would be best for me to accept things . . . . I probably have AIDS now. I have great difficulty raising food to my mouth from shaking after nightmares or thinking to hard on all this . . . . I've laid down without physical fight to be sodomized. To prevent so much damage in struggles, ripping and tearing. Though in not fighting, it caused my heart and spirit to be raped as well. Something I don't know if I'll ever forgive myself for.
    -A letter to Human Rights Watch

    Prison rape is funny again, guys!

    1. Re::-) I hope you too get assraped :~P by Adnuo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I actually registered to reply to this. I'm really glad that someone finally stopped the "ZOMG i hope j00 get t3h raped in teh assz0r LOLOLOL spammar!" comments and brought a real light to the situation. Sorry, sodomy isn't a joke. Just glad someone said it :)

    2. Re::-) I hope you too get assraped :~P by Neticulous · · Score: 1

      I've been sentenced for a D.U.I. offense. My 3rd one. When I first came to prison, I had no idea what to expect. Certainly none of this. I'm a tall white male, who unfortunately has a small amount of feminine characteristics. And very shy. These characteristics have got me raped so many times I have no more feelings physically. I have been raped by up to 5 black men and two white men at a time. I've had knifes at my head and throat. I had fought and been beat so hard that I didn't ever think I'd see straight again. One time when I refused to enter a cell, I was brutally attacked by staff and taken to segragation though I had only wanted to prevent the same and worse by not locking up with my cell mate. There is no supervision after lockdown. I was given a conduct report. I explained to the hearing officer what the issue was. He told me that off the record, He suggests I find a man I would/could willingly have sex with to prevent these things from happening. I've requested protective custody only to be denied. It is not available here. He also said there was no where to run to, and it would be best for me to accept things . . . . I probably have AIDS now. I have great difficulty raising food to my mouth from shaking after nightmares or thinking to hard on all this . . . . I've laid down without physical fight to be sodomized. To prevent so much damage in struggles, ripping and tearing. Though in not fighting, it caused my heart and spirit to be raped as well. Something I don't know if I'll ever forgive myself for.

      for future reference, it only takes 8 pounds of pressure (pull) to rip off testicles.

    3. Re::-) I hope you too get assraped :~P by crimson30 · · Score: 1

      I've been sentenced for a D.U.I. offense. My 3rd one.

      And we're supposed to feel sorry for this guy?

    4. Re::-) I hope you too get assraped :~P by I'm+Troy+McClure · · Score: 1

      but he doesn't deserve humaneness?

      --
      larryvagina@gmail.com
  56. Good work. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1


    Well written.

  57. 420 milliseconds per name, eh? by Wizardess · · Score: 1

    One might note that the young man is spending a whole 420 milliseconds in prison for each email address stolen. I am not sure what this sends as a message to other would be thieves. Is stealing a thousand names good for only 420 seconds in jail? Are there enough names in the world to put the fellow away for a serious length of time?

    {^_-}

    1. Re:420 milliseconds per name, eh? by adamgolding · · Score: 1

      why assume the function is linear?

  58. Hate to break your bubble, but... by Moraelin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... we already have that system. You may notice that stuff like getting a different sentence for pleading guilty or cooperating with justice aren't new to this case. That's how the RL system works, and is supposed to work.

    There is no such thing as purely objective justice, where the sentence is just spat out based on a formula. (Just feed the crime in, have a computer churn a few seconds, spit out the exact number of days in jail.) It's not even supposed to work that way.

    As for who picks the nitwits, that's the judge. There's a reason laws give him/her a very broad interval and let him/her decide where in that interval you fit.

    The job of justice isn't just to dish out punishment, but to hopefully reduce crime. And not just from a theoretical humanitarian point of view. There just isn't place in prisons to give maximum sentence to everyone. It's a limited resource, and you have to decide how much of it is _needed_ to help keep crime down.

    So a judge's job _is_ to decide, among other things, what the risks are of you doing it again if he/she let you go.

    If you've spent _years_ doing the same kind of crime, and still maintain that it was within your rights to do so and it's the victim's fault if their front door lock could be lockpicked (or their network could be broken into)... you've just convinced him/her that if you were let go, you'd run do the same.

    So, yes, the moral of the story is: if you're a twit with the judge, he _is_ entitled to have the last laugh. That guy/gal isn't the enemy, and may well even be looking for an excuse to give you community service or a fine instead. (Like he suggested in this case at one point.) But if you tell him basically "bah, they deserved having their house/network/whatever burglarized, and you guys are victimizing me by trying to keep me from doing it again", congrats, you've just shot yourself in the foot.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:Hate to break your bubble, but... by Moofie · · Score: 1

      When a judge deprives a person of their due process rights, they are committing a crime that's certainly greater than Mitnick was accused of.

      I wouldn't go so far as to call it a capital crime, but it's certainly up in the grand larceny arena.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    2. Re:Hate to break your bubble, but... by Moraelin · · Score: 1

      Mitnick is, simply put, a psychopath. The white collar kind, not the chainsaw murderer type. As described here and linked to on Slashdot today.

      Read that link, in case you haven't, and see how he has _all_ the traits described there. In spades. (Including reinventing his past as he sees fit, and the social engineering part, and generally everything.)

      More than that, he's worked hard at proving to the judge that he's just that: a psychopath with zero empathy or remorse. In fact he still works at it.

      So let me get this straight: so basically you're condemning a judge for keeping a _psychopath_ in custody?

      Dunno, it seems to me like presenting yourself as a clear-cut psychopath to a judge is... anything but smart. That's just the kind of personality that justice is supposed to keep off the streets.

      Seems to me like anyone making that case to a judge is _asking_ to be kept locked with no bail.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    3. Re:Hate to break your bubble, but... by Moofie · · Score: 1

      I'm condemning a judge for denying anybody...ANYBODY...their inalienable right to due process. Judges absolutely should not be allowed to do that, under any circumstances, ever.

      If the judge thinks the person is a dangerous psychopath, there are mechanisms in place (again: due process) to prevent them from harming others. Just locking them up without bail indefinitely is not, ever, a valid solution, under any circumstances, ever. This principle applies even if the person in question is suspected of being a terrorist, never mind a low-grade computer intrusion punk.

      Have I made myself sufficiently clear, or do I need to start reading from the Constitution?

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  59. Re:Ahh.... by Fatalis · · Score: 2, Interesting
    --
    Deus est fatalis
  60. For those that don't listen to Arlo Guthrie... by google · · Score: 2, Informative

    ... this is in reference to Alice's Restaurant.

    --
    "Thank you. Please spellcheck your genitalia references though. :) - Mike D."
  61. Make him apologize by flakac · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually, a better alternative would be to sentence him to sending apologies to all of the people whose addresses he stole.

    By hand. One at a time.

    If courts started making spammers do this instead, it'd be a much better deterrent than jail, and it would much better fit the crime.

    1. Re:Make him apologize by Like2Byte · · Score: 1

      If courts started making spammers do this instead, it'd be a much better deterrent than jail, and it would much better fit the crime.

      I like the thought of keeping him locked up until he has written all 92 million apologies. That should keep him busy, motivated and VERY fearful of ever doing anything similar in the future.

  62. thx for the article nigga by James+A.+D.+Joyce · · Score: 1

    my mouse button isn't working so I couldn't clickthru :(

    --

    Ron dies in chapter 9 of book 7.
  63. Re:Jason Smathers by sucker_muts · · Score: 1

    I guess he left the HTML formatting on and did not preview...

    Poor bastard!

    --
    Dependency hell? => /bin/there/done/that
  64. As much as I hate spam... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I can't help but think jail is a bit harsh. I mean, he sold the list, he didn't actually spam anyone.

    I dunno, maybe something more inline, make the fucker person appologize to the 92 million customers, one at a time, in alphabetical order.

    As for the cunt in vegas, well, string him up by the balls and poke fire ants into his nostrils.

  65. He *did* represent a physical threat by Solandri · · Score: 5, Insightful
    7 billion spams. Say 99% of them were caught by spam filters or went to bogus addresses. That leaves 70 million spams people had to deal with by hand. If it took one second to delete each of those spams, that means he cost everyone an aggregate 2.2 years of life. If someone imprisoned you in front of a computer hitting delete over and over for 2.2 years, wouldn't you consider him to be a physical threat to you and others?

    Why is it that people think a distributed crime is any less of a crime? Do you think it'd be OK if he stole $130,000 from a bank? Then why do you think it's OK that he stole $0.0019 each (1 second's wages at $6.75/hr) from 70 million people? They work out to the same amount of money.

    1. Re:He *did* represent a physical threat by Musteval · · Score: 1

      Bogus addresses? I don't think the emails that he stole and sold would be bogus, given that that'd tip off his buyers to the fact that he's grabbing them by the ankles and shaking.

      --
      Note to mods: I'm probably being sarcastic.
    2. Re:He *did* represent a physical threat by kesuki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's what a 'throw away' account like a hotmail acocunt is for, you simply stop reading it and it shuts down you only check it when expect an automated response form some website x that needed a valid e-mail etc... never have to click delete :p

      but yeah, before yahoo's filter started catching 99% of all the spam instead of having 6-7 spams a week to delete, i'd have 100-200 pwer day. before that i had to manually try and use spamcop. that was even more than 1 second per spam, more like half a minute. yahoo eventually had to bump up storage, and then stop counting spam as storage space to 'deal' with the issue. how much money a year does yahoo spend storing spam? how much resource? not to mention all the bandwith and space they're using on the whole internet mail infrastructure spam is by no means 'free' and the sad thing this guy is getting 15 months for 'stealing' the list of addresses, not for spamming.

    3. Re:He *did* represent a physical threat by reidbold · · Score: 1
      OP:
      I think that prisons should be reserverd for people who present a physical threat to other people.


      You:
      Why is it that people think a distributed crime is any less of a crime?


      I think you missed the first stage in responding to an argument, reading the original argument.

      Making someone press the delete button is not a physical threat.
      --
      -Reid
    4. Re:He *did* represent a physical threat by abb3w · · Score: 1
      Making someone press the delete button is not a physical threat.

      Carpal tunnel?

      --
      //Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
    5. Re:He *did* represent a physical threat by garett_spencley · · Score: 1

      and the sad thing this guy is getting 15 months for 'stealing' the list of addresses, not for spamming.

      Why is that sad ?

      I agree that the guy should be punished .. and I agree with stiff penalties for spammers.. but I'm not so sure that I believe this guy should be held responsible for any spamming.

      I was going to link this to analogy about someone who sells guns being held responsible for any deaths caused by that gun. But for all know there may be laws that hold gun retailers accountable under certain circumstances. I know I would feel partly responsible if I sold a gun to someone whom I didn't do a background check on first if that person went on a killing spree with that gun.

      But either way I think it's not very fair to demand that the guy be charged with spamming. He didn't spam. He was selfish and greedy and was indirectly responsible for the spam .. but he wasn't the one who sent out any e-mails. So to charge him with such wouldn't be fair IMO.

    6. Re:He *did* represent a physical threat by Musteval · · Score: 1

      That's what a 'throw away' account like a hotmail acocunt is for,

      www.mytrashmail.com.

      --
      Note to mods: I'm probably being sarcastic.
    7. Re:He *did* represent a physical threat by kesuki · · Score: 1

      okay so with the gun store analogy, he stole a case of bullets from his employers and sold them out the back door to guy who later went on a 5 week killing spreed and murderd 5000 people.... do you still give him 15 months for being an accomplice to mass murder? Even if he said "i have a don't ask don't tell policy" to the murderer when selling the illicit goods? this guy knew what the e-mails were being used for. it didn't matter he just wanted some quick cash.. and he didn't care how much it cost other people.

    8. Re:He *did* represent a physical threat by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      The difference si he sold the addresses knowing they would be used for illegal purposes. This makes him at least an acessory to the crime. In your gun shop analogy, it would be like selling the gun to someone who proclaims loudly he's looking for something to shoot his wife with.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
  66. Not a deterrent against white-collar crime... by hummassa · · Score: 1

    Prision is not a deterrent against white-collar crime: punitive damages and fines, preferrably the type that drives one to bankruptcy, are. The possibility of passing many years in jail just makes white-collar criminals more willing to "step up" and resort to common violence to cover up their white-collar crimes.

    --
    It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
    1. Re:Not a deterrent against white-collar crime... by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 1

      Yeah fines do have their place but they're not perfect. I know of one person who simply owns nothing - the house and the posessions are owned by his girlfriend. Declaring bankruptcy was not much of a problem there.

      If white-collar criminals become more likely to commit violence to avoid prison, wouldn't that suggest that prison is something they fear? If this is true and some become more likely to restort to violence, it follows that some will be less likely to commit crimes in the first place.

      I'm not speaking with a great deal of experience here but I'd hope that someone who steal 80,000 dollars through fraud and someone who walks in to a shop and steals the same amount would receive similar punishment (assuming the shop robbery didn't involve violence).

      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
  67. Spam filtering at AOL by Bimo_Dude · · Score: 1
    Actually, the GP does have a valid point. While AOL users tend to be novices and are usually more likely to fall for such schemes, there is one thing that AOL really does right: spam filtering. AFAIK, their spam filtering is one of the best around.

    Therefore, the list of screennames would be worth much less to a spammer, as the delivery rate for the mails would be much lower, even with multiple addresses for each account.

    --
    "Teleporting Rodents with D-Cell Battery Displacement" theory -- IgnoramusMaximus (692000)
  68. Better yet by hummassa · · Score: 1

    The cost that AOL pays for -- manufacturing and postage -- comes from AOL costumers.

    --
    It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
  69. My point is stilll valid by hummassa · · Score: 1

    The guy you know that owns nothing still can be made to pick garbage in the side of a highway for $5/hour, till he pays his debt.

    If white-collar criminals become more likely to commit violence to avoid prison, wouldn't that suggest that prison is something they fear? If this is true and some become more likely to restort to violence, it follows that some will be less likely to commit crimes in the first place.

    NO, this is not how deterrance works. Deterrance works when the punishment is big enough for you to consider not comitting that crime, and not big enough for you to consider that "if I will do this, I may very well to THAT too, makes no difference".

    I'm not speaking with a great deal of experience here but I'd hope that someone who steal 80,000 dollars through fraud and someone who walks in to a shop and steals the same amount would receive similar punishment (assuming the shop robbery didn't involve violence).

    So do I. In my perfect world, they both would have to pay $320,000 to the shop owner/defrauded person -- even if it takes the rest of their lives picking garbage all the Saturday long -- and a hefty fine to the State (to pay for the judicial system). Now, if they disobeyed this, then it's all right to throw them in jail.

    --
    It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
    1. Re:My point is stilll valid by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 1
      NO, this is not how deterrence works. Deterrence works when the punishment is big enough for you to consider not committing that crime, and not big enough for you to consider that "if I will do this, I may very well to THAT too, makes no difference".


      Yes, I understand how deterrence works but thank you for the definition. Earlier you said that the possibility of prison time for white collar criminals makes them more likely to commit acts of violence. You made this point when you wrote this text.
      The possibility of passing many years in jail just makes white-collar criminals more willing to "step up" and resort to common violence to cover up their white-collar crimes.


      Based on this reasoning, prison time must be less desirable to criminals than a fine? If it was not, then why risk compounding the crime by adding additional charges?

      If prison is less desirable then a fine (with the potential for bankruptcy), then isn't prison the greater deterrent that you mention in your last post?

      I'm not saying that every white-collar criminal should go to prison, that would be ludicrous. I'm saying that prison is a valid punishment depending on the severity of the crime.
      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
    2. Re:My point is stilll valid by Gizzmonic · · Score: 1

      Most criminologists will tell you that severity of punishment is not a significant deterrant. Likelihood of getting caught is a much more significant deterrant.

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
  70. Re:Please don't call him an "engineer" by Moraelin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'll kindly point your attention to one of the definitions you yourself have highlighted: " 1. The application of scientific and mathematical principles to practical ends such as the design, manufacture, and operation of efficient and economical structures, machines, processes, and systems. "

    You may notice certain words in there like "scientific" or "mathematical". So, sad to say, an ex-burger-flipper who faked a resume and copies-and-pastes from tutorials he doesn't even _understand_, doesn't fit that definition any way you want to stretch it.

    I've worked with people who know their trade and spent two decades learning to do a solid engineering job even without a university degree, yes. But the vast majority of ex-burger-flippers turned VB "engineers" just because it paid better, nope, sorry, are not doing anything even _vaguely_ resembling engineering. (Software or otherwise.)

    The vast majority don't even understand the most elementary _basics_ of the science or mathematics behind it. And show no sign of even trying to learn. They'll just do a copy-and-paste job (sometimes via memory, but copy-and-paste job nevertheless) from some tutorial they've seen somewhere, without even understanding what or why happened there.

    I fondly call it "cargo cult programming."

    The story behind "cargo cults" is that in WW2 airplanes dropped food and supplies on various islands to support their troops there. A lot missed the mark and were found by natives instead. Who never understood what happened there, but some proceeded to pray to the mysterious metal birds to come drop more stuff. And when that didn't happen, they carved statues of airplanes and prayed to them some more.

    Well, that's the kind of code I see every day. Code written by someone who never even understood wtf _is_ a factory, or a singleton, or whatever (and much less _mathematical_ stuff like why an algorithm is "O(n*log n)" and another is "O(n*n)" and why the heck that matters. Or even what that funny "O" notation means.) But they proceeded to dutifully make their own mental cult around them, and carve statues to those all over the code.

    For bonus points, when the statue they carve isn't even of a pattern that makes sense. Nah, it's of some stupid "optimization" that actually worked only in Java 1.0 or only with a very specific C compiler on some obscure platform, and only under very specific circumstances. But they never understood all that, so they'll faithfully carve statues of it all over the place, in the _awfully_ wrong places.

    If that's applying scientific or mathematical principles... eh, I rest my case.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  71. I remember this guy! by Morgon · · Score: 1

    We made a new dictionary word last year in his honor!

    smather (verb): To have personal information sold to advertisers without your consent or knowledge.
    "Man, I just got this new Hotmail account, but in less than an hour, it's been smathered!"

    Has anyone been able to use this in everday conversation?

    http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/23/21 45224&tid=120&tid=111&tid=17

    --
    [DISCLAIMER: This post is a work of satire and should not be misconstrued as a holy text upon which to base a religion.]
  72. Another misintepreted headline by CrazyTalk · · Score: 1

    My first thought was - "Wow, 15 months - what a great severance package! I only got three weeks when I got canned."

  73. Re:Well, see, that's just the point by mnoel2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know everyone loves that Steve Jobs quote about decreasing boot time*, and I know a distributed crime is still a crime, and I figure that white-collar criminals are probably the group of lawbreakers most likely to be swayed by 'examples' of horribly disproportionate punishments for crimes --

    but to claim that being violently raped, repeatedly, is an acceptable repayment to society for any crime, is a sign that some people here need to unplug a bit. If you get more bent out of shape over spam than large scale violence against fellow people, no matter what laws or social boundaries they've crossed, then I sincerely hope I am never on the recieving end of your decision-making process. It's just junk mail. Yeah, it sucks; but if someone gave a nation the choice between everyone receiving junk mail every day, or having a specific individual gang raped, I should hope the nation would be enlightened enough to deal with the stupid colored pamphlets.

    For the love of all that's right, end prison rape.

    * It goes something like "It's my moral responsiblity to decrease the Mac's boot time, because if I shave ten seconds off, and have 5 million users, and they each use their Macs for so many years, I'll have saved fifty lives". Uncle Google is failing me right now...

  74. I baked... by Neticulous · · Score: 2, Funny

    From AOL TV commercial: "To say thanks, I baked you this apple crumb cake!"

    Who thinks this guy should only eat apple crumb cake for the next 15 months, say aye!

    1. Re:I baked... by jcuervo · · Score: 1
      Who thinks this guy should only eat apple crumb cake for the next 15 months, say aye!
      Only if he's allergic to apples.
      --
      Assume I was drunk when I posted this.
    2. Re:I baked... by Neticulous · · Score: 1

      if i had to eat anything for one year and 3 months straight, i guarantee it would be torture after the first 2-3 months.

  75. Re:Please don't call him an "engineer" by hyperstation · · Score: 1

    that is _so_ _fucking_ _annoying_. stop doing it, you elitist fucktard.

  76. Re:Please don't call him an "engineer" by hyperstation · · Score: 1

    bill gates fan club (from the parent users url)? you've got to be kidding...

  77. Re:Are you thinking of "glass?" by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

    I guess he's an engineer in architecture.

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  78. Re:Please don't call him an "engineer" by callipygian-showsyst · · Score: 3, Informative
    Are you a P.E.? If not, you aren't legally a "real engineer" in many places.

    Yes I am.

  79. Re:Please don't call him an "engineer" by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    What, my asking to actually learn the basics of the job you're _paid_ to do makes me "elitist"? Heh.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  80. And yet, one still walks free by WebGangsta · · Score: 2, Informative
    So they got one AOL employee in jail for stealing screen names.

    But they didn't get Heather Robinson, the former AOL staffer who stole celebrities' screen names and worked those "newly found contacts" into various movie deals.

    One is a criminal; the other is an "up and coming screenwriter". Obviously there is no consistency in how AOL deals with employee violations.

  81. that was 5 years ago... by Cutting_Crew · · Score: 1

    but granted they havent lost that much in that span of time.. NET users that is..

    remember this??

    but as you can see the last 2 years they have really shed some.. 2 million+ last year..so the ball is just now starting to tumble.

  82. a customer... by maxrate · · Score: 1
    A customer of mine (does NOT use AOL) had a spam sending virus on her computer. I cleaned it up once I was told about it. I was guessing the virus may have been on her machine for up to a week.

    I don't know why the heck Symantec doesn't detect this stuff sometimes!!!

    AOL put her IP on the blacklist. We have called AOL a few times to take it off the blacklist, they always say they will do it, yet, we still can't get an e-mail to AOL subscribers!!! er!! We don't use AOL and it still sucks!

    1. Re:a customer... by spx · · Score: 1

      It could be the people on aol you are trying to email have their settings as 'do not receive unless from another aol person'.

    2. Re:a customer... by maxrate · · Score: 1

      i wasn't aware that option existed - thank you.

    3. Re:a customer... by spx · · Score: 1

      It depends, even some free emails (like yahoo and hotmail) have had settings like that in the past. Since I use my host and my domains email, I can option my inbox to only allow from my address list, anyone, etc. Cheers

  83. This guy had no idea what he was doing by jerryodom · · Score: 1
    It really makes AOL look bad when they've got an employee too stupid to properly take advantage of the theft of the entire customer list. $28,000 dollars is a complete steal for that sort of information.

    He totally undermined confidence customers have in the company for chump change and then crawled on his belly when he was caught. The 15 months is just a little slap for a guy who will never be put in the position to take advantage of a big company like that again. Had he been smarter he'd be doing a dime in a federal pound me in the ass prison with a decent little sum of money waiting for him when he got out.

    --
    For some reason I refuse to use either spell check or the spacebar properly.
  84. Re:Well, see, that's just the point by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    Well, look, I'm not saying I'm for gang rape as such or anything. It's not like I've singled that out as the only punishment fit for him or anything.

    I just want the guy to suffer, that's all. I want the next one who gets such an idea to cringe at the very thought.

    Yeah, ok, thinking logically and on a general level, I'll even aggree that we should abolish prison rape. Seems like a reasonable thing to expect from a civilized country, after all.

    But nevertheless, a little nasty part of me wants the spammers to suffer for the large scale damage they're doing, even in some other way. That's all I'm saying.

    To be honest, I don't really care in which way he suffers. Put him in solitary confinement for 15 months, for all I care. (Which would also prevent any kind of rape, right?) Make him hand-write an apology to each and every single person in those 25 million accounts he's sold, like someone else suggested. At 10 seconds per apology, if he writes reasonably fast, and a (humane) 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, schedule, he should be done with it in about 23 years and 9 months. Whatever, really.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  85. Re:Ahh.... by I'm+Troy+McClure · · Score: 1

    I'm becoming less defined as days go by Fading away, well you might say I'm losing focus Kind of drifting to the abstract In terms of how I see myself Sometimes I think I can see right through myself Less concerned about fitting into the world Your world that is Cause it doesn't really matter any more (no it doesn't really matter anymore) No it doesn't really matter any more None of this, really matters any more Yes I'm alone, then again I always was As far back as I can tell I think maybe it's because you were never really real to begin with I just made you up to hurt myself And it worked...yes it did There is no you! There is only me There is no you! There is only me There is no fucking you! There is only me There is no fucking you! There is only me Only Well the tiniest little dot caught my eye And it turned out to be a scab And I had this funny feeling Like I just knew it's something bad I just couldn't leave it alone I kept picking at the scab It was a doorway trying to seal itself shut But I climbed through Now I am somewhere I am not supposed to be And I can see things I know I really shouldn't see And now I know why, ya now I know why Things aren't as pretty, on the inside There is no you! There is only me There is no you! There is only me There is no fucking you! There is only me There is no fucking you! There is only me Only



    If you spam me gmail's spam filter will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!

    --
    larryvagina@gmail.com
  86. Re:Please don't call him an "engineer" by hackstraw · · Score: 1

    Yes I am.

    Good for you. I was hoping that was the response to the question.

    Its annoying how the word engineer gets thrown around in the US. In most of Europe, and possibly other places, an engineer is a real title like an MD.

    Here if you take out the trash your a sanitation engineer. The higher ups where I work call us UNIX and Windows engineers. Yuck.

  87. new math?? by MooseTick · · Score: 1

    I'm no whiz at this new math and all, but back in my day "$2,100,000.00" was closer to 2.1 million than billion.

  88. Hand written by spx · · Score: 1

    Im sure hand written letters to everyone would be pretty bad, esp seeing as Im sure just about anyone that uses a computer more than 10 years has some shitty handwritting now. Pratice makes perfect!

  89. that works out to... by notnAP · · Score: 1

    about 1 second in jail for each 175 spams sent out.

  90. Re:Yet another reason I am ashamed to be an AOL us by I'm+Troy+McClure · · Score: 1

    Everyone here idolized bill gates until they saw the writing on the wall!

    --
    larryvagina@gmail.com
  91. Half Baked [Nasty Nate] by PhatboySlim · · Score: 1
    Squirrel Master: Back up Nasty Nate, this my bitch!

    Nasty Nate: Better watch your back Fish! Squirrel Master ain't gonna be there for you all the time. Next time I come for you, I'm gonna want some cocktail... FRUIT!

    Kenny [AOL Engineer]: Here take it!

    [walks away with Squirrel Master]

    Kenny [AOL Engineer]: I'm somebody's bitch!

    --
    Be sure to remember the Programmers Prayer
  92. Punishment fits the crime tho by griffjon · · Score: 1

    I bet he'll have a lot of unsolicited male in his "inbox" ...

    (sorry) [goatse tribute warning, first page is work-safe]

    --
    Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
  93. free internet by cyberbob2010 · · Score: 1

    my girlfriend's family has been using aol for over a year now.

    why you ask?

    because they get it free!!!

    they signed up for the free whatever and ever since then, every time that they call in to cancel their subscription - AOL give them more free months. This has gone on for a year now without her family paying a cent.

    --
    We seldom regret saying too little but often regret saying too much.
    1. Re:free internet by spx · · Score: 1

      AOL will always do that, and usally dont check to see how many 'freebies' have been used by such and such customer. When I did my calls for AOL (I had to support my son somehow w/o his father helping), my company was hired outside of AOL to call up and go In the past week have you used your net connection? If so, what for Email/Research/Other 2 minute survey. I was not working with aol, but for them, I dont know which is worse. It only happened for about a 2 month time span, but still I heard so many issues and most being 'I have tried and tried to cancel, but AOL wont let me'.......the best advice I can give is contact them 3 times, if nothing, deny all credit card access with AOL. Im sure your gf's parents are happy that its free, but its still shitty service, remind them of that. There are cheap ISP's and all are bad (for me, since I love my fast connection/etc/etc) but some are abit better than Ahell. :) Good luck.

  94. Re:Are you thinking of "glass?" by Detritus · · Score: 1
    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  95. Re:ARTICLE TEXT by henleg · · Score: 1

    The site was login-locked, but nothing bugmenot won't resolve! ;-)

  96. Re:Jason Smathers by spx · · Score: 1

    confused, what?

  97. me too by dacaldar · · Score: 1

    me too

  98. Re:Ahh.... by alan_dershowitz · · Score: 1

    You know what, every time anyone makes a joke about nazis killing jews or japanese getting nuked or Sept. 11, that's all cool with the majority of the Slashdot crowd. The defense posts always are plentiful and modded +5 Insightful. But boy, when the prison-rape jokes come out, there's a big turnaround.

    It's an interesting disparity, it seems a lot of Slashdotters can yuk it up when six million other people die, but the thought of one person getting plugged in prison really, really bothers them. I wonder what this says about Slashdotters?