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Ancient Greek Computer Reconstructed
afaik_ianal writes "A working reconstruction of an ancient Greek computer, the Antikythera mechanism, which was found at the bottom of the ocean in 1900 has been unveiled and is on display at the Technopolis museum, in Athens. The device is believed to have been used to calculate the positions of various celestial bodies including the sun and the moon on any given date. While some guesswork was required in the reconstruction, the bulk of the design is based on updated X-ray photographs of the device."
Alpha and the Omega and all that.
Does it run Linux?
... the clockwork owl in Clash of the Titans?
Clearly the ancient Greeks had mechanical technology beyond even modern capabilities!
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
"The Antikythera mechanism, as it is now known, was originally housed in a wooden box about the size of a shoebox, with dials on the outside and a complex assembly of bronze gear wheels within."
Anyone place odds on our gold and copper monstrosities from the 70's on surviving thousands of years and people figuring out what they were used for? There's something to be said about elegantly simple one use devices like calculators.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
I saw a documentary on this on the Discovery channel at least a 100 years ago. I suppose now its just "traveling". They have had this thing running for a while.
Here's the text:
The Antikythera mechanism
The clockwork computer
Sep 19th 2002
From The Economist print edition
An ancient piece of clockwork shows the deep roots of modern technology
WHEN a Greek sponge diver called Elias Stadiatos discovered the wreck of a cargo ship off the tiny island of Antikythera in 1900, it was the statues lying on the seabed that made the greatest impression on him. He returned to the surface, removed his helmet, and gabbled that he had found a heap of dead, naked women. The ship's cargo of luxury goods also included jewellery, pottery, fine furniture, wine and bronzes dating back to the first century BC. But the most important finds proved to be a few green, corroded lumps--the last remnants of an elaborate mechanical device.
The Antikythera mechanism, as it is now known, was originally housed in a wooden box about the size of a shoebox, with dials on the outside and a complex assembly of bronze gear wheels within. X-ray photographs of the fragments, in which around 30 separate gears can be distinguished, led the late Derek Price, a science historian at Yale University, to conclude that the device was an astronomical computer capable of predicting the positions of the sun and moon in the zodiac on any given date. A new analysis, though, suggests that the device was cleverer than Price thought, and reinforces the evidence for his theory of an ancient Greek tradition of complex mechanical technology.
Michael Wright, the curator of mechanical engineering at the Science Museum in London, has based his new analysis on detailed X-rays of the mechanism using a technique called linear tomography. This involves moving an X-ray source, the film and the object being investigated relative to one another, so that only features in a particular plane come into focus. Analysis of the resulting images, carried out in conjunction with Allan Bromley, a computer scientist at Sydney University, found the exact position of each gear, and suggested that Price was wrong in several respects.
In some cases, says Mr Wright, Price seems to have "massaged" the number of teeth on particular gears (most of which are, admittedly, incomplete) in order to arrive at significant astronomical ratios. Price's account also, he says, displays internal contradictions, selective use of evidence and unwarranted speculation. In particular, it postulates an elaborate reversal mechanism to get some gears to turn in the right direction.
Since so little of the mechanism survives, some guesswork is unavoidable. But Mr Wright noticed a fixed boss at the centre of the mechanism's main wheel. To his instrument-maker's eye, this was suggestive of a fixed central gear around which other moving gears could rotate. This does away with the need for Price's reversal mechanism and leads to the idea that the device was specifically designed to model a particular form of "epicyclic" motion.
The Greeks believed in an earth-centric universe and accounted for celestial bodies' motions using elaborate models based on epicycles, in which each body describes a circle (the epicycle) around a point that itself moves in a circle around the earth. Mr Wright found evidence that the Antikythera mechanism would have been able to reproduce the motions of the sun and moon accurately, using an epicyclic model devised by Hipparchus, and of the planets Mercury and Venus, using an epicyclic model derived by Apollonius of Perga. (These models, which predate the mechanism, were subsequently incorporated into the work of Claudius Ptolemy in the second century AD.)
A device that just modelled the motions of the sun, moon, Mercury and Venus does not make much sense. But if an upper layer of mechanism had been built, and lost, these extra gears could have modelled the motions of the three other planets known at the time--Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. In other words, the device may have been able to predict the positions of the known celestial bodies for any given date with a respectable degree of accuracy, usin
I'm torn between marveling at the enginuity behind this and pointing out that this is really bluring the line between 'computer' and 'glorified watch'. Even the wikipedia article it links to describes this as a clockwork mechanism.
When the title reads 'ancient greek computer', I would expect something more along the lines of the machine that Babbage designed.
for watching ancient Greek porn.
Clearly the ancient Greeks had mechanical technology beyond even modern capabilities!
HAH! That's NOTHING! What you must see, is their Orichalcum robots!
It was not a celestial tracking device but rather A Clock That Runs For 10,000 Years... or until the ship transporting it through the Bermuda Triangle capsizes and re-appears in Ancient Greece.
I'll be your candy shop of infinite deliciousity if you'll be my discotheque of endless rump-shaking.
Excellent, they built it but they are not sure what it does. I have written software like that.
...which was found at the bottom of the ocean in 1900...
Actually, it was found in 2000. Just that no one thought to correct for Y2K problems!
Homer no function beer well without.
(notice the date, not quite "news")
The Antikythera mechanism
The clockwork computer
Sep 19th 2002
From The Economist print edition
An ancient piece of clockwork shows the deep roots of modern technology
WHEN a Greek sponge diver called Elias Stadiatos discovered the wreck of a cargo ship off the tiny island of Antikythera in 1900, it was the statues lying on the seabed that made the greatest impression on him. He returned to the surface, removed his helmet, and gabbled that he had found a heap of dead, naked women. The ship's cargo of luxury goods also included jewellery, pottery, fine furniture, wine and bronzes dating back to the first century BC. But the most important finds proved to be a few green, corroded lumps--the last remnants of an elaborate mechanical device.
The Antikythera mechanism, as it is now known, was originally housed in a wooden box about the size of a shoebox, with dials on the outside and a complex assembly of bronze gear wheels within. X-ray photographs of the fragments, in which around 30 separate gears can be distinguished, led the late Derek Price, a science historian at Yale University, to conclude that the device was an astronomical computer capable of predicting the positions of the sun and moon in the zodiac on any given date. A new analysis, though, suggests that the device was cleverer than Price thought, and reinforces the evidence for his theory of an ancient Greek tradition of complex mechanical technology.
Michael Wright, the curator of mechanical engineering at the Science Museum in London, has based his new analysis on detailed X-rays of the mechanism using a technique called linear tomography. This involves moving an X-ray source, the film and the object being investigated relative to one another, so that only features in a particular plane come into focus. Analysis of the resulting images, carried out in conjunction with Allan Bromley, a computer scientist at Sydney University, found the exact position of each gear, and suggested that Price was wrong in several respects.
In some cases, says Mr Wright, Price seems to have "massaged" the number of teeth on particular gears (most of which are, admittedly, incomplete) in order to arrive at significant astronomical ratios. Price's account also, he says, displays internal contradictions, selective use of evidence and unwarranted speculation. In particular, it postulates an elaborate reversal mechanism to get some gears to turn in the right direction.
Since so little of the mechanism survives, some guesswork is unavoidable. But Mr Wright noticed a fixed boss at the centre of the mechanism's main wheel. To his instrument-maker's eye, this was suggestive of a fixed central gear around which other moving gears could rotate. This does away with the need for Price's reversal mechanism and leads to the idea that the device was specifically designed to model a particular form of "epicyclic" motion.
The Greeks believed in an earth-centric universe and accounted for celestial bodies' motions using elaborate models based on epicycles, in which each body describes a circle (the epicycle) around a point that itself moves in a circle around the earth. Mr Wright found evidence that the Antikythera mechanism would have been able to reproduce the motions of the sun and moon accurately, using an epicyclic model devised by Hipparchus, and of the planets Mercury and Venus, using an epicyclic model derived by Apollonius of Perga. (These models, which predate the mechanism, were subsequently incorporated into the work of Claudius Ptolemy in the second century AD.)
A device that just modelled the motions of the sun, moon, Mercury and Venus does not make much sense. But if an upper layer of mechanism had been built, and lost, these extra gears could have modelled the motions of the three other planets known at the time--Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. In other words, the device may have been able to predict the positions of the known celestial bodies for any given date with a respectable degre
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
here is what I do: attend a very prestigous school, where there is a shit ton of smart fuckers. A-Z-Ns. Do you guys even know what those are? Because I once slept with one. Ok, yes, she was a little drunk. Ok, maybe I shouldn't have. But the point remains: I know a lot about computers. Whats more, i'm greek. So I know a TON about greeks+computers. Gyros. Do you guys even know what those are? Let me tell you, they are really incredibly good. Lamb meat. OMG, so good. I love it. Go greek computers!
"While some guesswork was required in the reconstruction, the bulk of the design is based on updated X-ray photographs of the device."
Reporter: So what do you think the device is for?
Archaeologist: Well we can't be entirely sure, but if you look at this X-Ray you can see what appears to be a cup-holder.
No, mega-dupe! Did I just coin a phrase!?!
"This isn't a study in computer science, its a study in human behavior"
That old, if you extrapolate Moore's law backwards it just had to be a two-bit computer....
I wonder how much ram it had? or did they use slaves to power it?
If the wikipedia article is right, that the clockwork was produced in 87BCE then the clockwork was actually Roman, as the whole of modern and ancient Greece was under Roman control at that time. Also, it's not a computer, it's a damn clockwork.
cheese logs keep my wang warm at night.
Better tell Daniel Jackson so he can translate the writings. Now if we just find out where the Stargate is.
The Linux kernel has been successfully ported to the Antikythera mechanism, The highly distilled version of the kernel reportedly can boot in under 160 years and the process also effectively builds large amounts of forearm muscle in the process. Linuxworld.com calls it the perfect marrige between grassroot technological history and modern innovation, Steve Jobbs is currently preparing to manufacture a mini version of the Antikythera mechanism which will eventually make it's way into every Apple product. Microsoft has called the Antikythera mechanism the most astonishing technologinal innovation the world and microsoft have ever seen, Bill Gates said in an interview, "It's changing the way we have looked at computer technology completely, throughout the entire reign of microsoft we have never even considered this master-designed technology!"
If you have an accurate model of what the sky looks like, you where you are and what time it is.
'This article has recently been linked from Slashdot.
Please keep an eye on the page history for errors or vandalism.'
This page has just been linked to by Slashdot, keep an eye on those dodgy characters.
does it run apache?
smattawichu
the greeks were geeks. :P
"All you have to do is be fragile and grateful. So stay the underdog." Chuck Palahniuk, Choke
YAY! no images.
Has anyone else noticed that the Economist article linked is from 2002?
Does anyone else find it slightly amusing that Wikipedia stamps a big warning across the page as soon as it gets Slashdotted? Complete with a warning to look out for trolls? I'm sure it's not new, but I guess I've just always ignored it in the past.
/. article from now on.
It's brilliant. Maybe we should include one at the top of every
On a sidenote, wouldn't it make sense to link to the static version of a Wikipedia entry page, rather than the top / dynamic one? I guess it would detract from the whole editable purpose of Wikipedia, but in terms of providing a reference -- which is what this article is using it for -- it seems like it would be safer to link against a static page of a specific revision, and then let people see the newest version if they wanted to.
Of course if they did that, we'd never get to see their 'Do Not Feed The Trolls' warning.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
People in Ancient Greece over two thousand years ago had many things the US and other Western countries claim to have invented much later. Everything from democracy, theater, architecture, clocks, mechanical toys, Hero's heat engines, sport competitions, etc. Not only they knew that the Earth was round, they even managed to measure its diamemeter. They are the fathers of mathematics, which is the mother of all knowledge. Ancient Chinese and Egyptians had bits and pieces of mathematical knowledge but they failed to grasp the big picture and unlike the Greeks did not develop any axiomatic system or the concept of a mathematical proof.
Truly an amazing people, I think they had the greatest impact on world culture, much greater than the Romans, Assirians, Sumerians, Chinese, Japanese or any other old or modern civilization (including the American civilization).
Sure today's Greeks are not the same as the Ancient Greeks. Nevertheles I feel sad when Modern Greeks are made fun of by other peoples (including Americans).
By the way I am not Greek or related to any Greek folks.
How long before someone writes a Trojan horse for it?
Well, I also use it to read /.
But the watch part is far more productive.
Ya! Damn the man! Seize your destiny!
My guess is that its an analogue conputer, but there is a good chance that its a clock.
If you are familiar with Ptolemy's "Almagest" you know he models the solar system as a series of epicycles. Until Copernicus' time (and after) European and Arab teaching was that these mechanisms were the physical reality but Ptolomy never actually endorsed that view. What if the "Almagest" was the specs for a dedicated astronomical computer and the Antikythera mechanism is the implimentation?
Then again...clocks became simpler over the centuries. Our modern clocks only show hours, minutes, seconds and perhaps the date. Mediaeval clocks showed years, months, weeks, days and hours as well as planetary positions, seasons, and solar and lunar eclipses. Their mechanisms were more complex than mechanical clocks and watches (remember them?) produced in the 20th century. Mechanical clocks built in the 1970s were more accurate but less complex than mechanical clocks built in the 1270s in Europe. Clocks built in earlier centuries in Arab lands were equally complex. The Antikythera mechanism could have been just one in a line of astronomical clocks.
...a Beowulf cluster of these...
Mongrel News all the news that fits and froths
This might be old news but it is just a reminder that people from ancient times were not stupid. The people around Mediterranean were smart and understand how things work.
Also make note of Heron of Alexandria. A great Greek inventor who invented machine gun, steam power, vending machine and many other mechanical machines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_of_Alexandria
\
All these adventure games with ancient mechanical things --- I always knew that wasn't fantasy.
Pity there are no pictures in the Article.
-- Cheers!
I believe you can only coin a phrase if you explain to people what exactly that term means. Otherwise it's just an expression in words/sound ;)
Anonymous Coward
Funny, but raises an interesting question: could a clockwork device have security flaws?
If the Antikythera mechanism was made by different outfits in ancient Greece:
Apollo: The mechanism would be highly polished in a mahogany box with an observation window that would crack due to poor workmanship and high profit margins. Device only works within a 10 sq. mile area around Athens. Anywhere else and it's off.
Microsofticus: The mechanism would be essentially the same as the original, except some planets would be in different locations for 'efficiency' and 'because it runs faster that way.' Pebbles would bounce into the device via conspicuous holes and users would have to purchase a security contract from Symanticus. Not recorded in historical literature because nobody knew how it worked. Re-assembly from rusty bits required legions of scientists.
Zeus Microsystems: The mechanism would be painted purple and lilac and probably have some confetti around a highly stylized Sun logo on the outside. Giant purple globe in center of device would confound scientists for decades. Works, but gets slower with every passing decade, even though the underlying architecture is salvagable.
Linux Maximus: Device was buried with engineering diagrams in air-tight, humidity-controlled box at Delphi. Instructions for re-assembly (which it doesn't need) are also recorded within the device itself in every language known at the time as well as with pictures. Does what it needs to do and little else. Also, device was heavily cited in the historical literature and anyone was free to build one as long as they had access to commmodity blacksmith parts. Can be modified to suit different galactic locations, as well, with little effort.
Hewletticus-Packardus: Originally a papyrus-ink outfit, H.P., decided to get into the astronomy business because its archon, Sappho, wanted to. Ended up building poor version and purchased Compacticus to try and fix things. Didn't happen and Sappho went to Lesbos to become a poet with a zillion Drachma severence pay and H.P. just had to deal.
No wireless. Less space then a Nomad. Lame.
This was the first time I noticed it too, but I remember an article on the wikipedia - I think after a /., it was about the commodore64 and the article body was hacked, yet so appropriately highly informative.
It was something like: [Teh elite computar numbar 1!!] and some other stuff. haha. I loved it.
When I reloaded there was a whole page of 'real' article, the condensed version was so much better, well, if you already knew about the c64....
"Found" in an unverifiable location, check.
Mysterious properties steeped in legend or too advanced for time period, check.
Fudged "reconstruction" based on second-hand (instrumental) data, check.
All the earmarks of a hoax. Nothing to see here, move along.
ROFL, IMO the parent post should be modded funny :)
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." - HL Mencken
I can see the smoke coming from the wikipedia servers from here. Damn.
google.slashdot
So they've copied a several thousand year old computer, software and hardware. Surely there's a lawsuit there somewhere.
Cogito, ergo sig.
Looks like Wikipedia's servers are hosted on the Antikythera...
Okay, so a philosopher, a philologist, and a philatelist walk into a bar...
statues lying on the seabed that made the greatest impression on him. He returned to the surface, removed his helmet, and gabbled that he had found a heap of dead, naked women.
A computer AND pr0n? They need to check their spellings. This was most certainly a geek ship, not a Greek ship.
All comments are properties and trademarks of the voices in my head. Not like I'm gonna claim them.
Please don't copy and paste personal bookmarks here.
2 backup dudes at the crankshaft.
(The audio output used master-slave speaker configuration)
I doubt that we will ever figure out - and I suspect that even if we did figure out we couldn't do much about it
does it run UT 2004BC?
"This article has recently been linked from Slashdot.
:-)
Please keep an eye on the page history for errors or vandalism."
Has anybody noticed this?
Dear Cowboy Neil, Cmdr Taco, or anonymous code ranger,
..oh, nevermind
Please add "first post" to the lameness filter. That would really be everso nice. Even if it only leads directly to "first post" alterations whereby the first poster leads a series of text dances to cover up the fact that he is posting first
From Wikipedia:
Isn't it nice knowing that Slashdot has such a nice reputation ?
But, to get on topic: How is this a computer ? It can't be programmed, it doesn't have a memory or anything. It is simply a mechanical astronomical clock. An impressive clock, certainly, but that does not make it a computer.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Helluva nice guy, though.
Sorry. Seemed a little Monty Python-esque.
Good-bye, sweet karma.
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
**Ripped shamelessly from the Fark headline.**
But, it still gets a better Doom 3 framerate than a Dual G5 PowerMac. :p
**Ripped shamelessly from my own comment on Fark.**
disclaimer: I am a Mac User.
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
I just had to say that
The patent on the design just expired. Still waiting for the copyright to expire though...
The linked Economist article says that ancient Greeks (I am Greek) believed in a universe where Earth was at its centre. I don't agree with that. Geocentrism was the most accepted theory, but not all Greeks believed it. There were Heliocentrists in ancient Greece. Search Google for Greek and Heliocentrism and see what you can find. Learn about Aristarchus of Samos.
does it have a wide-open backdoor?
Manojar - pronounced like Manager
I've spent an afternoon in the Archaeological Museum in Athens and without knowing the story stumbled upon this thing (no mention of the "clock/computer" in the weblog post though). It is impressive to look at, among the other ancient stuff it has an otherworldly air, it's not impressive in the sense of how big or complex it looks. Of course you can't see that much from the object itself, but I can imagine that people first looked at it and noticed that there is something really unusual about gears appearing in something so old.
The bronze exhibition also has other fine worked small stuff (and the gold stuff exhibition has even smaller and more detailed worked stuff), so I give the old Greeks the ability to work on this level. Perhaps not your neighbourhood blacksmith, but some experts were definitely able to do this level of work.
Some folks think that all computers ought to be programmable. That's plain wrong. A non-programmable device can be a computer. The Antikethyra mechanism isn't simple and is definitely an ancient Greek computer, probably built in Rhodes island.
Ancient Greeks (I am Greek) had built complete moving planetaria from before 212 BCE. They had the knowledge and the technology to predict and actually show the movements of all planets they knew about. Ancient Greeks also had simple small steam engines and pumps.
The X-ray company involved is http://www.xtekxray.com/ in case anyone is interested. (Yes I work for them)
The "-us"-suffix on device names would imply that it was Roman - not Greek. Ie. Linusoupoulos, Microsofoulas et cetera.
-.-
There's a webpage telling me that Microsoft doesn't support that any more. :)
--- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
What the hell!
--- As mentioned on wikipedia ---
This article has recently been linked from Slashdot.
Please keep an eye on the page history for errors or vandalism.
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How did slashdotians get that rep? Why does Wikipedia think Slashdotians would want to vandalise their pages. Or more to the point.. Why does wikipedia think that Slashdotians that would want to vandalise Wikipedia, would actually WAIT until there is a hyperlink from slashdot in order to do so??
Yes, it's a computer, an analog computer. Before there were digital computers, a whole big heapin canful of computation was done with slide-rules, nomographs, sextants, and other devices that COMPUTED answers using mechanical (proportional) means. And Richard Feynman was mighty dubious about this device-- is it likely that just one of these survived all that time? And they'd be useless for navigation in the Mediterranean-- you need a very accurate clock to compute longitude, which didnt come about til the late 1700's. And navigation in the Med is mostly about longitude.
Let's not forget about the lesser-known models:
Beos: The device can easily display data for several solar systems at once. Unfortunately, at that time no one needed that functionality.
"Zeta": The device got its name from the fact that it appears to be a Beos device with the letter Zeta and the words "new and improved" painted on the case. For some reason a Teutonic mail-order merchant seemed to be the only distributor.
Netbsd: The strange spelling is seen as proof that this device was originally developed in eastern Europe. Known to work with any kind of cog imaginable. There are several scriptures in which a certain Netcraftos confirms that "Netbsd is dying".
Ostenos: Experts are still arguing whether this device should be called "Ostenos" or "Osexos". But everyone agrees that it's really pretty.
Mesdos: While somewhat clunky, many of the older Greek scriptures confirm that it was, in fact, much superior to the Windos offering of the time, which is often described as "just a pretty shell". They also explain in great detail how one can modify the starting configuration of the cogwheels in order to get as much as possible from than the first 640 rotations of the main cog (also known as conventional rotations).
Windos 3.1: An addon to Mesdos. Mainly acts as a pretty shell that makes the box slower for some reason. Comes with a pupular card game that can only be used in conjunction with the machine, further lowering productivity.
Windos 95: Got its name from the fact that there was a 95% chance of the device breaking when used due to the fact that everything was made from small glass windows. Known to leak blue ink from time to time.
Windos NT: Based on technology sto-- innovated from Stonehenge, this mechanism is known to be rock solid but incompatible with many common celestial bodies of its time.
Windos ME: The less known about this one the better.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
The funniest thing I've read on here in days (not saying much but it's something!)
How many fulltime jobs can one man have?
http://www.bartleby.com/30/16.html
Go down to figure 133. Around the turn of the century, there were devices even more elaborate than that one.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
And just about every author who seizes upon the latest geek meme to sell a few more novels...
Yeah, I'm a tad cynical.
Apparently, it wasn't thousands of years under the sea that caused the Antikythera mechanism to deteriorate. It BSOD'd when Microsoft Word tried to determine if "cleverer" was a real word, and Archimedes threw it threw out of his hotel window.
Aren't all computers are geek in nature?
Since this technology clearly pre-dates any current PC patent, whouldn't it render some of those patents invalid, since it is an example of the earlier design? Or will it be dissmissed just as Mickey Mouse ancient drawings were?
Kent Brockman: I, for one, welcome our new Greek overlords.
Kent Brockman (listens to earpiece)
Kent Brockman: This just in, the classical Greek civilization fell thousands of years ago. And I, for one, welcome back our Republican overlords.
Education is the silver bullet.
So, does this mean that a geocentric universe was "proven" by science in the 1st century BC? We would say that was absurd because we have more information about the universe now than the Greeks had from just looking skyward. But how many other computer models and predictions do we take on faith as "science" which are based on incomplete information. Our best global warming climate models are extemely *inaccurate* compared to this relatively accurate device. Yet we accept the inaccurate model on faith and reject the accurate model that this device "proves".
What this device show is that you can have completely valid "science" and still be completely wrong because your information is almost never complete. Throw in some preconceptions, political or cultural prejudices, and the selective observations that are part of the human nature of the scientists and the the "science" is even more skewed.
And no, its not just "acient" science that is wrong. Roughly 20 years ago every medical scientist *knew* that stomach ulcers were caused by stress. Then some crackpot came along and suggested they were caused by a bacterial infection. The crackpot couldn't even get approval to run tests, so he experimented on himself. A few weeks ago that crackpot won the Nobel Prize. So how many of our accpeted "truths" are wrong?
The Greeks also invented the kimono. Kimono is come from the Greek word himona, is mean winter. So, what do you wear in the wintertime to stay warm? A robe. You see: robe, kimono.
You poor unfortunate kids today. Why, when I was young...
You could build useful fun projects out of discrete transistors.
(Tubes also, if you were a real masochist...)
Then some early ICs came along that were still useful. Transistor hybrids (no more taking hundreds of curves to get a matched set for that class B amp!), VCOs, timers. Still the sort of 'stuff' you could hold in your hands and solder. Building an analog synthesizer was within reach (no Moog, but still quite fun) Then the IC age really ramped up. Soon you had op amps, then quad op amps. Parts got smaller, then became surface mount. Then (gasp!) BGA appeared. Oh farc! Plus for me, the (eh hem) age of bifocals arrived. Just for fun, I recently fully disassembled my Creative Zen Touch. Wow, nice design and packaging. What a beast to hack!
I now understand the recent return to people designing and building discrete power amps for home stereo. (Sorry people, but I still do not get tubes (valves)...) At least you can go back to working on something where you can touch the parts. About the only thing left to hack on modern toys are the connectors and protocols.
So were the ancient Greeks pure genious for the longevity of their technology? No. It has more to do with the technology being inherently long lived and accessible at a human level. Also, this particulat piece of history managed to sit where no one could reach it for a long time. I have to assume that there were other models on land that were recycled for their raw materials quite some time ago. I disassembled my synth to recover the controls....
Buzzkill.
You create your own reality - Leave mine to me.
About half of them. Think about it.
Science is all about the scientific method.
Until the data and results are ALL in, you don't have the answer.
You step from conjecture to hypothesis to theory.
Global warming is happening, by the way, but whether it is a result
of human activity is still conjecture.
The rest of your blasting away at science? I call BS......
It was designed for use on a Wind Blown Operating System.
Sep 19th 2002
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I hear the Ipod's thumbwheel navigation patent is now endangered by prior art...
Some settling may occur during posting.
OK, this may be off topic, but does anyone else find the word "Technopolis" to be really cool? It has a great blend of ancient and modern all in one...
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
If so, that's probably why the greeks threw it in the sea.
This ancient computer probably would have blown the drive bay doors off every Apple g4 i've ever owned. God help me.
That's GNU/Antikythera if you please.
-Tom
There were 163 people known in 43 BC to distribute their own version of the Linux Maximus, all doing something slightly different. If you want one that does exactly what you want, get a dozen of them, and change parts from one to the other. Then distribute and become number 164.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/Spr ing03/Antikythera.html
it's all greek to me
Notice the Greek amazing intellect:
No 'Designed for Windows'
or 'Intel Inside' badges on the case!
Maybe port Quake?
There's a new box at the top of the article:
:)
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They know us too well
I completely agree with you that a good scientist knows that new theories "supplant older theories as newer, better, more accurate observations are made". Good science always accepts a certain healthly level of uncertainty and provisionalness. However, there are a lot people who forget that and then go on to make far reaching claims and absolute conclusions based on "scientific" computer models. I cringe when somebody with an agenda (political, scientific, social) says "We *must* immediately do $action because scientists have proven $dramatic_result by conducting $flawed_computer_model"
My illustrative point about Global Warming is that when the hypothosis was formed about 10-15 years ago, the computer models gave certain predictions of where global temperatures would be now. Those predictions were wildly inaccurate. Granted, newer models used today are more complex and contain more data than the old models, but given the long lead time of observations, we can have no more confidence in their accurancy than the ten year old models. These models haven't even risen to the level of "best-fit" for accurately describing or predicting phenomena. Yet, you have people running around spouting off about such-and-such computer models predicts so-and-so. Because the models are unproven (and indeed, the immediate anticedants that they modify were shown to be wildly wrong) their trust of the anthropogenic warming models equates to little more than "faith" under color of science.
The Antikythera device is based on the theory of Geocentrism. It uses Geocentrism to make predictions that are correct everytime. We only know geocentrism to be flat-out wrong because of other observations and insights that we have gained in the last 500 years since Nicalaus Copernicus, Tyco Brahe, and Johannes Kepler. However, if we were in the 1st Century BC with the available information at the time, we would have had more scientific evidence of geocentrism then, than what we have for anthropogenic global warming today.
I think that is a cautionary tale.
Sometimes late at night I wonder if I'm a modern reinvocation of a Greek Goddess.
Abstinence is a government conspiracy. www.SafeSexZone.co
were writing philosophy while yours were swinging from trees ...
There is a book called "Oi Ellhnikes Leksies Sthn Agglikh Glwssa"(The Greek words in the English language) for those that read modern Greek. THe 1991 earlier edition has 398 pages, a newer edition published in 2004 has 669 pages(which I do not own).
As to the continuity of the Greeks of course the modern are not ancient Greeks. But the beliefs of many Westerners that Greek is a dead language(thus Greeks a dead people), making it ok to teach Erasmic pronounciation is condescending to say the least. The modern demotic Greek language is the direct descendant of Koine Greek and most modern Greeks can understand most the New Testament's vocabulary.
The most amazing thing about the ancient Greeks is that they wrote about everything and did nearly everything. That is almost all ideas and politics like communism, monarchism, socialism, anarchism, algebra, trigonometry, can be found in their munificience.
to get an answer to a problem, without needing to understand the problem, then it's a computer.
the fact that you didn't plug it into a wall, and that it only had on purpose is irrelevant.
It is also important to rememebr that anything built with software can be built with hardware. Not as practical, but it can be done.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Dear Sirs,
My name is Yiannis Papadopoulos, I am a laywer and I come from the City of Antiketheria in Greece. I believe your beowulf clusters of linux and computer fans and well your entire western civilazation infridges on my ancestors intellectual property rights.
We cannot tell you at the time the exact technologies you westerners infridge on, because we do not trust that you will not change them.
This is a notice to seize and deceipt all activities of the Western Civilazation infridging on the technology of the Ancient Greeks. If you do not comply, I will have to seek legal ways of protecting my clients' rights.
Thank you
Yiannis Papadopoulos, IAAL
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So that is why we are counting the years from the Chinese Calendar? Or from the religion with the New Testament as its basis which of course was written in Greek. Aristeides Konstantides has published a 669 dictionary tome of all the Greek words in the English language.
... I could go on.
Here are some of the Greek prefixes used in English: acanth(o), achromat(o), acr(o), actin(i/o), aden(o), aer(o), alg(o)
Is our architecture based on the Chinese or the Greek? Heck even the Chinese have adopted the Greek ways(architecture, calendar, Greek loan words from West European languages).
Great , they posted a photo of the original machine.
Notice the banner at the top of the page? This article has recently been linked from Slashdot. Please keep an eye on the page history for errors or vandalism Is Wikipiedia so vulnerable?.....
The article in the Economist, linked from the Slashdot summary, is clearly cribbed from the Wikipedia entry that immediately preceeded its publication (or a common ancestor). Just look for common phrases like "an ancient Greek tradition of complex mechanical technology". Neither the Wikipedia nor the Economist stories are definitively attributed, so perhaps they are the work of a single author. But more likely the Economist just stole the IP from Wikipedia without giving credit to its actual author.
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make install -not war