Slashdot Mirror
Korean Lab Worker Forced to Donate Her Own Eggs
An anonymous reader writes "According to an article in the Wall Street Journal, Dr. Woo Suk Hwang had attained international fame by successfully cloning a human embryo, but he accomplished his feat by pressuring a lab worker into donating her own eggs. Consequently, Gerald Schatten, a cell biologist at the University of Pittsburgh, has severed his ties with Mr. Hwang and cited gross breaches of ethics."
Go back to your intelligent design arguments while we make real progress.
This sounds like something I could easily expect from a communist regime where not much is sacred except the progression of the state.
I don't see anything in TFA about coercion ... where did that part come from?
.. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
Man. What a fucking cheapskate. Eggs are like, what, $1.29 a dozen?
Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
Real progress towards dead ends? Scammers! Liers! Cheats!
This one goes in the "mad scientist" file. Talk about complete loss of perspective.
Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
was she forced or just persuaded?
huge difference...
Questionable ethics from somebody working towards human cloning?
Why doesn't this surprise me?
"What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
/)
Where does the line lie in ethics of science? Should we kill embreyos to make stem cells? While many conservatists are plagued for saying no, when "an embreyo killed is not a baby, and could save millions", is this any different? If cloning ends up having the potential to prevent birth defects and such, is forcing someone to give up her eggs, worth it in the end?
Help Fight SPAM today!
Dr. X: I love you. I love your eggs. I promise not to slap you anymore. No fork them over bitch, I GOT SHIT TO CLONE.
Help me, help you. - Jerry McGuire
First Post!
Ha ha!
You're kidding me...
hahahahahaha
$sys$mysenseofhumor.dll
Dr. Who suck wang...
Dr. Woo Suk Hwang
"Dr. Who" suck wang?
or
Dr. whom sucks wang?
Interesting indeed.
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
I will have to agree that nothing is sacred in business except business and ethical demoralization is bad business hence not recommended or practiced very long if a company wants to stay in business. Its an invisible check or balance set by the people. Yet an ignorant society that abandons its morals will invariably have have a corrupt government and business umbrella. Free people can only blame themselves.
People lie dying and dead on the streets. Dogs hanging off bridges by the neck. Shuda nuck'ed em all.
I would say something about having egg on his face, but I don't really think it's appropriate.
Now the poor chaps who are trying to achieve something worthwhile with their medical science using stem cells or whatnot have to deal with another round of "oh god, what is the world coming to?" And "quick! Lets ban the whole lot before someone else does something this stupid."
Nothing about pressuring? Where are you getting that from, ScuttleMonkey, and do the /. editors RTFA's themselves?
"According to the WSJ" Schatten quit because he heard that one of the lab workers had donated eggs, but there is nothign about pressure in the WSJ article. Is there in the Nature one?
Typical misrepresentation of the facts by the submitter.
No where in the linked article was there any impliation that Dr. Hwang used any form of pressure, coersion, or other unscrupulous means to obtain the eggs.
The reasons given by Mr. Schatten is pretty clearly stated:
Under U.S. rules, collecting eggs from women working on a cloning project would be considered unethical. In the original paper, published by the journal Science last year, the scientists said the eggs all came from anonymous donors.
Hwang lied about where the eggs came from, and used (from the standpoint of the US) and inappropriate donor.
I know this is just user submitted stuff here, but could we at leat pretend like accurately representing the article is important. Or do we just assume no one will bother to read a 1/2 summary without some creative spin in the summary.
You're an idiot, and you can't even spell "nuke". Must be an American.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the term "forced donation" sounds a little self-contradictory to me. Something like "forced concession" fits the situation better. A "forced donation" is more like the offering plate at church.
On a side note, how do you force someone to give up their eggs? What's he gonna do, saw her open and steal them if she doesn't hand them over?
Oh, wait.....
"You will pay for your lack of vision..." - Emperor Palpatine to Ray Charles
What the submitter left out was this nice bit:
Dr. Schatten, who was to have led the organization's board of directors, says he is now severing collaboration with Dr. Hwang, due to questions over the source of human eggs used in a 2004 cloning project, and errors in a 2005 paper coauthored by the scientists. A 2004 news report in the journal Nature said at least one female laboratory worker had provided eggs for the project, an allegation that Dr. Hwang has denied on several occasions.
Is it just me, or does it look like Schatten didn't have a problem with the forced collection, only starting to sever ties (note the tense there: "is now severing", ie, he hasn't finished?) after problems come up with a paper?
I can't see why else he waited a year after it was public knowledge (and no doubt knowledge to him well before the news report) to sever his ties.
Please help metamoderate.
YHBT YHL HAND
Modern medical ethics seems to me to have no philosophical underpinings, and is just the sum of forbidding anything that might bother anyone. It is a response to a quest for funding, not an interest in morality. If you cover all possible things that might bother someone, then you may get funded.
They have exhausted their other options when it comes to delaying embryonig stem-cell research.
Since several states have started passing budgets with money dedicated to embryonic stem cell research, its oponents have been growing increasingly rabid and vicious in the last few months. The 3B dollars approved under proposition 71 in California have been delayed so far for more than a year. Expect those well-meaning folk trying to save your soul at the expense of your body to jump on this news and integrate it in their propaganda machine ASAP.
If you are subscribed to the google news feed on the topic ("stem cell" or "stem cells" are good candidate strings (does that thing take regexp btw?)) you will see that almost every week a major new scientific announcement is made. There are signs of improvement for a lot of diseases previously thought incurable. Not all of this stuff gets mentioned in the mainstream media in the US.
Don't go silently into that peaceful night
Oh wait, that was for an egg donation. 8-)
Have any been e-bayed yet?
Pulled from Science, Vol 304, Issue 5673, 945 , 14 May 2004:
Last week Nature reported that in an interview a member of the research team admitted being one of the egg donors, raising questions about whether she profited professionally by being a co-author. Nature quoted bioethicists as saying that, to avoid any hint of coercion, there should be an arms-length relationship between the research group and the donors.
Hwang blames the language barrier for "a miscommunication." He says the woman had tried to explain that, in the future, she would be willing to donate eggs for such research by other groups. Moon-il Park, a professor of obstetrics and gynecology at Hanyang University in Seoul and chair of the Institutional Review Board (IRB) at the university hospital that approved the research plan--the eggs were harvested at the hospital--wrote in an e-mail that no one from Hwang's team was among the 16 volunteers. "I confirmed this after being contacted by Professor Hwang" regarding the allegations, he wrote.
lol... foreigners are so funny when they try to legitimize their inferiority by insulting obvious trolls for their spelling.
Rock on; you keep me confident that America will come steamroll your pathetic, shitty little country when we've run out of uses for you.
Woo suk hwang? Sounds like the kind of name you find in a dirty limerick...
Dr. Who was forced to suck wang
As an eminent member of the NKKSU (North Korean Kraeizy Scientist Union), I see absolutely no problem with such practices. I myself regularly force my own lab slav^H^H^H^Hworkers to do such things. Those bastards are so lazy anyway that this is the only way to justify their outrageously high wages. No later than yesterday one of them even asked me a raise to $3.75 per hour. What the H-E-L-L was he thinking ? I can tell you that I added him immediately to the list of subjects that are going to be used in this experiment with the RNA-deconstructor human immunodeficiency virus. This time this is an improved version which works (I think). -- Dr. Madh
People are regularly forced to give to other's causes ... It called taxes.
As far as I know, all countries do this. In fact, some groups require ones entire person, as in mandatory enlistment or conscription. Many religous organisations do it overtly, calling it something polite like tithing, or covertly, by forcing their burdens on others by gaining exemptions.
So do you really want it damned, whatever it is? What is it, anyway?
Slightly off-topic, but one wonders about people who might have done all sorts of research on themselves/their "by-products".
If the following account is accurate, it's another example of a slightly less inethical incidence:
When he was a grad student at Princeton he was having an argument with a colleague about the mobility of sperm; Feynman went away for a bit and came back with a sample. (from "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman."?)
prostitute? in korea? U can't imagine. . . me want you long time! nuther words, nuthin but there.
The tag is misleading at best, if not an outright troll. There is no indication that the donor was pressured or coerced in any way. In fact there is no indication of any wrongdoing except for an allegation by the American scientist, with no offering of proof. Do we know what HIS motives were?
Whoever greenlit this should have caught it-- for God's sake the article itself is a blurb, it would take 30 seconds to read. If you're against human cloning there's plenty of fodder for your argument, you should not be allowed to use Slashdot as your pulpit to demonize the other side.
Oh wait, nevermind....
--
North Koreans have no Seoul.
Future Headline: "Fook Mai and Fook Hue in dirty video on the Internet."
There goes my karma.
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
It would be a KDE comic book?
I've often thought that the medical ethics community was a bunch of smart, Talmudic guys somehow looking for relevancy and importance through their arguing skills. E.g. if a man dies in a car wreck and there's no next of kin, is it OK to harvest his organs? OK, fine -- you are in the middle of harvesting the guys liver, and the intended donor is there cut open -- just when you are about to transfer the liver, the next of kin appear, declare that if you take the liver out of their family member, he won't have one in the afterlife. But if you don't do the transfer the intended recipient will probably die earlier due to having been cut open -- blah blah blah blah.
Is it OK to harvest fetal material from abortions. When is it OK to pull the plug on a brain-dead person? When is it OK to euthanize somebody?
This is comical: in early medicine, you had doctors robbing bodies out of graves so they could figure out how the bodies worked. Sometimes they'd get lynched for this, so doctors established a network, so that doctors from town-a would tell doctors from town-b, "we got a body in cemetary-a". Town-b doctors would rob it, and when they had a body in cemetary-b, they'd tell the doctors from town-a. That's the origin of modern medicine.
I wonder what the medical ethicists would have said.
I think we'd all be better off if we didn't have medical ethicists, and instead just asked ourselves, "what is legal?"
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_
Well, a prostitute knows what she's selling, doesn't she? A lab worker, on the other hand, probably expects to use her mind, not her ovaries.
What everyone seems to be missing is that, if there's a power gradient, there's implicit coercion involved.
... it's the stem cells from human fetuses that they have a problem with. It's one of those "slippery slope" cases, whether you believe it or not.
If anyone would like to pay me to sit around and produce sperm samples, I can start immediately.
No, seriously.
Medical students are regularly used in studies. There was even a case in which a student died because of an asthma study. They inhaled a drug that wasn't approved for that purpose in order to simulate an asthma attack. Who's to say that a student can't feel compelled to participate in his research advisor's studies? I don't think that's a whole lot different from the situation here.
QUOTE: If you are subscribed to the google news feed on the topic ("stem cell" or "stem cells" are good candidate strings (does that thing take regexp btw?))
I can't say about the news feed subscription, but when it comes to the Google search they've implemented something that they refer to (oddly enough) as "stemming" which if you enter *either* cell or cells the engine actually searches for *both*
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr. Seuss
Where did anyone other than this slashdot submitter accuse Dr.Hwang of forcing anyone?
On the contrary, Dr.Hwang is well known for being exceptionally careful to keep his experiements in ethical domain, even at the expense of progresses in his experiments. Please examine the facts first before making a serious accusation like this
It's apparent from your tagline that that is indeed all you know about Bush.
resigned
Apologies for the anon posting... have already moderated and don't want to waste that moderation.
"Missing" nothing. If the individuals involved don't see the situation that way, there's been no coercion. History is brimming with people who put themselves forward (often into harm's way) because they felt strongly about the value of the research they were doing -- from lab assistants to lab owners.
"Implicit coercion" is just a media twist to substitute external judgement. It's reasonable to judge minors incapable of giving informed consent, but let's not patronise adults.
Read the article, it says nothing about pressuring anyone about eggs, whoever wrote the blurb should be punished, they obviously have a political axe to grind against human cloning. The sad part is that most people who see this will believe this guy coerced a employee to donate an egg blindly without reading the story first...READ THE ARTICLE AND TELL ME WHERE IT SAYS HE "PRESSURED" HIS ASSITANT FOR EGGS! It doesnt, it says he misrepresented where the eggs came from, period. So for everyone who is all outraged about this, go to the article and read it before you start venting out of control.
Gross breaches of your morality? Perhaps. I hate it when people replace the word "morals" with "ethics", thinking that they're both synonymous. Learn the difference.
Nobody's gay for Mole-Man.
Seeing as how his name is Woo Suk Hwang, we can at least be assured that he has an abundant supply of semen to work with.
Below is the full text of the article from the "Wall Street Journal".
U.S. Scientist Quits Stem-Cell Alliance
By a WALL STREET JOURNAL Staff Reporter
November 12, 2005; Page A5A
A prominent U.S. scientist is withdrawing from an international collaboration to create human embryonic stem cells.
Gerald Schatten, a cell biologist at the University of Pittsburgh, said he was severing all collaborations with the laboratory of Dr. Woo Suk Hwang of Seoul University.
Dr. Hwang, a veterinarian, has drawn international applause for leading the first effort to clone human embryos and extract their stem cells. Last month, he announced the formation of the World Stem Cell Foundation, an international alliance aimed at spreading that technology.
Dr. Schatten, who was to have led the organization's board of directors, says he is now severing collaboration with Dr. Hwang, due to questions over the source of human eggs used in a 2004 cloning project, and errors in a 2005 paper coauthored by the scientists.
A 2004 news report in the journal Nature said at least one female laboratory worker had provided eggs for the project, an allegation that Dr. Hwang has denied on several occasions. Under U.S. rules, collecting eggs from women working on a cloning project would be considered unethical. In the original paper, published by the journal Science last year, the scientists said the eggs all came from anonymous donors.
The above article does not state explicitly the matter of coercion, but the article strongly implies it. The pressure to produce results at Seoul University (and other Korean universities) is very intense, yet unfortunately, Korean society rejects the ethical standards that are routinely practiced and implemented in universities and laboratories in the West. Hence, American rules forbid workers on a research project from donating their own eggs for the research: the aim is to prevent any pressure from being applied to the workers. In Korea, the female lab worker most definitely felt pressure to "put out", and no one gave a damn.
For the old timers in this forum, I encourage you to do a search for the original story of the "cloning breakthrough". SlashDot had started a thread about it in 2004 or early 2005.
I will reiterate what I said in previous Slashdot threads about cloning. I salute the go-slow approach that the West (which includes Japan) has taken. Its people have repeatedly debated the ethics of the subject and enacted laws ensuring an ethical approach to the matter.
Such is not the case in Korea and, especially, China (which includes Taiwan province and Hong Kong). No national debate on the subject ever arose in Korea or China. The Koreans and the Chinese view cloning humans as merely another bland step in science. Hence, last year, the Chinese created a human-rabbit embryo but destroyed it after a couple of days.
...oh yeah. WHOOSH!
I am Spartacus
Agree with the Parent:
In many utopian communities founded in the USA: the Amana, Oneida, Shakers, etc... A pure form of communism was successfully practiced for several generations.
What did all of these communities have in common?
1. They were all relatively small and agrarian. 2. They were all united by a strong common religion.
There is not nearly enough love in the world, but there is far too much trust.
prostitute? in korea? U can't imagine. . . me want you long time! nuther words, nuthin but there.
This oft sampled quote (me so horny, me love you long time) is originally from Kubrick's (rip) classic Full Metal Jacket, a film which brilliantly and disturbingly explores a dichotomy (perhaps even the dichotomy) inherent in human nature. It's set during the Vietnam "conflict" (heh) era. The plot events take place in a marine boot camp preparing infantry for deployment to Vietnam and shortly after, in the country itself. It has absolutely nothing to do with Korea or the US-Korean involvement of the 50s.
But please, don't let such trivial details stop your asian generalizations.
in russian "Eggs" means "Balls". That is odd!
I remember when interferon was going to cure cancer. Huge amounts of money got dumped into interferon research. It largely ended up a dry hole. Embryonic stem cell research could end up being a dry hole too. If the adult stem cell guys end up doing it better, cheaper ESC is doomed even if it does work.
So far, the ASC researchers are many years ahead of their ESC competitors. We have actual ASC therapies with many more in human trials. How many ESC therapies are in human trials? The last I heard, the number was zero. By the current state of the science ESC is a loser. So why is the government pouring billions into backing this loser instead of extending the already successful ASC methods further?
Thank you for providing me with a good example of the right-wing propaganda I mentioned in my previous post.
If you quit buying what fauxnews sells you and do your homework, you will see that therapies using ESCs are practiced all over the world with stunning results. The most amazing progress is made in regenerating heart tissue and there's also some stunning progress in spinal cord injuries.
Don't go silently into that peaceful night
For all the slashdot crowd here comparing egg donation to sperm donation or, heaven forbid, having to work long hours, a basic interjection of reality (though IANAMD)
1) Egg donation is a surgical procedure. A painful surgical procedure. A single egg is not magically transported from the woman's body - essentially a surgical procedure akin to a biopsy is peformed. Yes, modern surgical methods are better, but the pain is real, the risk of surgery is real, which leads to:
2) Egg donation potentially impacts fertility. This is a delicate procedure, and things can go wrong.
Donating one's eggs to scientific research is a noble action, and I deeply respect the person who does so. But it's a serious matter, and the merest appearnace that outside pressure was applied to influence a worker to donate her eggs calls into question the ethics of the project team itself.
/* Dang, I can't type that well. */
Much better!
You can't add pianos and telephones.
Does anyone? I'm just asking, ok? I mean it's easy enough in this controversial field to start a rumor about coercion, force, pressure, obviously there are people who want to see this research fail or be discredited for their own religious or philosophical reasons. Or maybe there is some truth, but we've seen plenty of people attacking strawmen (and CIA wives) lately in all sorts of fields. Is it too much to ask that if you are going to make claims of pressure, much less force, you have some actual evidence you can point to? If the best you can do for evidence is vaugue allusions about cultural stereotypes and searching slashdot, I call FUD.
This is the most stupid article I've ever read on Slashdot. Who really cares if some coordinator thinks it is unethical.
He's probably trying to play some politics game for one, and secondly, the deadlines that everyone has put on any project, one should assume people are going to be going to whatever lengths they want to pull it off.
Who cares anyway. I'm sure there would have been an article if the technician was really coerced. I just don't think that happened.
...::----::...
I am in no way affiliated with this sig.
Gotta love surrealism.
I think that might be a movie qoute but I don't really know for sure I am just surprised that people waste the mod points on an AC that seems a waste to me
You must be gravely misinformed about Taiwan. You make some blanket statement but didn't show the evidence to back yourself up, so I'd like to request you do that. In particular:
The other day someone accused me of reading between the lines of what Aaron said about Frank on OSWD, and that I have bad English. I guess someone has even worse reading comprehension skills than I do.
You need to upgrade your tin foil hat to gold, and make sure your gold foil is not made in Taiwan nor China.
I once had a signature.
I know a good amount on the Shakers. It is said that the Quakers were related to Shakers, but lost their common relation as they were pressed to modern ideals and dwellings. The one accurate trait of the Shakers is they didn't self-sustain their population; much of the Shakers were orphans, peacfully congregating and assembling for a common benefit to help one another. Unusually, the "leaders" among the shakers strictly abstained from sexual encounters. That is what I've read partly on the Wikipedia article, and not actually seen. It is said there are less than 5,000 shakers in the USA, whereas before their growth surged from small isolated gatherings then instantly disappear, then reappear, etc. It looks as a hearty bunch of people, and I can't say I've seen one communist society in the works closer than the Shakers because all the others are actually fasist and dictator and authoritarian movements guised behind the image and color of progress and consolidating wealth. Shaker furniture is high quality, next to Amish products in terms of respects.
How about you leave the project? Nobody's forcing you to work there.
In a perfect world, she would have just yelled "Leggo, my Eggo!" and that would have been the end of it.
6 hours past, in the meantime two more BS postings from ScuttleMonkey, but neither an update nor an apology by ScuttleMonkey and the author of the article! Posting false accusations and playing with a researcher's reputation is the only unethical misdeed here.
Before sperm donations could be paid for, the men working at the clinics would often donate their own sperm in order for there to be enough supply of sperm, because demand was so great and there simply wasn't enough unafilliated men donating to meet the demand there was for sperm.
Were they really trying to meet market demand or was that huge supply of free pr0n just too irresistable in the pre-internet age?
I wonder how far stem cell research would have gone if stem cells where only harvested from a mans testicles..
Lord know many of the slashdot crowd are not using theirs...
Jimi Spier
www.jimispier.com - My tunes
*groan*
I can't read TFA, I only have the choice to download and install the flash plugin. Nothing to see there, go away.
Gerald Schatten's qualms about the donated eggs may seem as bizarre to Woo Suk Hwang, as some Americans' qualms about stem-cell research appears to an average slashdotter...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Looks a little "extreme", but I googled this "interesting" link about the differences in government health policies for men & women.
This slashdot article seems to be edging dangerously close to slander. Sure, Slashdot is not like the WSJ or a major newspaper, but it does get regularly linked and read in some circles.
There might be some evidence for this claim of "forcing", but not in that article. And it doesn't make it OK to say "the WSJ said"... in fact you might get sued by them as well.
You can't just make crap up about a person and post it on a hugely popular website, without thinking about the consequences.
For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke
"Let's go burn down the observatory so this will never happen again!"
it seems that Korea is having a lot of issues with human eggs. they constitute a black market in Asia:
the crackdown might be why the scientist had to seek an egg donation. bioethical questions aside, this all seems very odd.
In Soviet Russia, Hwang Suk WOO!!
Just a word: Mengele.
Get lost.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
The egg retrieval procedure is neither painful nor pleasant. It is exactly the same procedure that is followed for in-vitro fertilization. Most of the times is performed under mild general anesthesia and might take about 20 min. The greater risks after the procedure are infection and ovarian hyper-stimulation syndrome (due to the drugs used to hyper-stimulate the ovaries before egg collection). But with the proper medication (antibiotics, antiinflamatories) and rest, this chances are minimized.
Well, it does pay extremely good money to them.
The whole idea is that there's nobody threatening to cause phsyical harm to them or others if they don't do it. That there's no more motivation to do this job than it pays $$$$, versus a McJob paying $, or even strip club paying $$, or going out and getting an education to earn $$$-$$$$$.
Would you say that porn stars would get another job if they could?
I don't read AC A human right
When have you not had a relationship with someone who wasn't more/less smart, rich, pretty or confident? By your definition all sex is rape.
You mean LIBEL. SLANDER is like LIBEL but different. I AM A Lawyer.
Under U.S. rules, collecting eggs from women working on a cloning project would be considered unethical.
Under US law, collecting eggs from anyone to work on a cloning project is "unethical." At the risk of spreading FUD, I believe we have a no-tolerance policy towards human cloning.
(If I'm wrong, the propaganda has worked).
So perhaps the egg had to come from an interested party. While I completely understand the potential for abuse if that party is an employee, it is entirely conceivable nothing improper occurred. It's her cell to sell.
If the head scientist used her own egg, would that be more ethical? Family members' eggs? Bought them on the black market? I can't believe we're talking about job security as the salient ethical detail in this context. There is a goddamn baleen whale in the foyer.
Do I believe anyone would relinquish precious bodily fluids to keep a job? No. Assuming it is ethical to buy and sell these for the express purpose of cloning research--as Dr. Schatten has--I don't see why we need to abridge the right to contract. Barring the event that your employer is Dracula, it might be considered a privilege to contribute to a historic experiment.
For once, the debate has everything to do with the price of eggs in China.
[1] "Which Came First, the Breach of Ethics, or the Egg?", Nature, August 2005
[2] "Why'd the Korean lab worker cross the road?", New York Times, 4/1/2003
you can have my violent video games when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.
Prime UID Club
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/200508/kt200508042 0430510440.htm
Prof. Hwang Woo-suk at Seoul National University, South Korea's stem cell pioneer, is under fire for giving too much credit for his strides in cloning research to a foreign scientist. -- 8/4/05
Good old-fashioned nationalist dick-waving.
you can have my violent video games when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.
Prime UID Club
I rape my wife nightly (really, I force her).
Say no to women's rights.
The other day I went to the local Vietnamese/Chinese restaurant and got a bird's nest. I guess where I grew up they did things different because when I got home and looked at the goods I was like "hmm...they put little potatoes in them here." Then my better instincts kicked in and I poked the so-called potato AND THEY WERE QUAIL EGGS!!! Now, every time I drive by the place all I can think about is those poor quails.
My on-topic comment is if they eat the fruit of the quail on a regular basis, how can our eurocentrism judge their ovariocentricity?
Why can't we just all get along?
i got ball this is my adress 108 20 37 av corona come n do it iam give u the sidekick so I can hit you wit it
Please provide a link or a cite to an approved human therapy for ESCs involving heart regeneration. Here's one for ASCs
B.E. Strauer et al., "Myocardial regeneration after intracoronary transplantation of human autologous stem cells following acute myocardial infarction," Dtsch Med Wochenschr 126, 932-938; Aug. 24, 2001.
Human autologous stem cells are adult stem cells, ASCs.
If you can't find actual human trials (successful ones that is) or therapies that aren't adult related, maybe you're the one who's promoting propaganda, but it isn't the religious, right-wing kind. If that's the case, maybe you might ask what interests would want to take credit for ASC progress and shine up the reputation of ESC methods?
Awaiting those cites/links...
In some countries (notably my own) it is not considered rape should a 16 year old have sex with a willing 15 year + 11 month old.
You not only allow 16 year olds to have sex with 15 year olds, but simultaneously also have sex with 11 month olds? That's just sick, man...
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
11-25-05: Dr. Hwang resigns top stem cell job in South Korea after lying about where he got his eggs; head of California's ICOC still in office after blatantly lying about pre-election claims (California Politics Today(TM) #478)
m nn478-5551212.html
http://etopiamedia.net/empnn/pages/cpt-emnn/cpt-e