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First Face Transplant
mriya3 writes to tell us the BBC is reporting that surgeons in France have performed the first ever face transplant. The medical team, led by Jean-Michel Dubernard, transplanted live tissue to a 36-year old woman whose face had been destroyed by a dog. From the article: "It has been technically possible to carry out such a transplant for some years, with teams in the US, the UK and France researching the procedure. [...] But the ethical concerns of a face transplant, and the psychological impact to the patient of looking different has held teams back."
Was it John Travolta's or Nicholas Cage's?
I wouldn't want either.
A live person is missing a face. A dead person doesn't need theirs any more. Where's the problem?
And how could the "psychological impact" be worse than not havin a face? The patient is going to "look different" no matter what is done.
Putting a new spin on the proverbial: "Who am I?"
On a computer or under a hood.
How far are we from something along the lines of Face/Off?? Seriously. Kidnap someone, swap faces, and suddenly you're a different person.
The team of surgeons deny that The Silence of the Lambs played any influence in their technique.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
And the "psychological impact" to the patient of looking different?? Looking different from a hideously scarred accident victim? Isn't that why they want surgery in the first place?
This seems to me like a story desperately in search of sensationalism.
But when will they be able to tranplant a working brain into a Slashdot Troll?
Now I can be good looking and smart!
Michael Jackson is in france this week for an undisclosed medical procedure.
Wanted: Clever sig, top $ paid, all offers considered.
From 2002, and 2004. I'm a little suprised this happened in France first, as the 2004 article expressed interest in moving forward with this at the University of Louisville.
"Powers. I have them."
I've heard the rumors of organ snatchers where you wake up in a bathtub with stitches and one kidney. Should we incredibly good looking people fear knife weilding hoardes of uglypeople hell bent on revenge?
What if Digg added local news and a Slashdot inspired comment karma system? ---
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they can't reconnect the nerves can they? Wouldn't it feel like having a thick layer of dead skin on your face all the time, I mean I'd want to pull it off continually.
Bin laden got away from afghanistan with no problems. Now he's mascarading as Dick Cheney.
The doctors said they replaced the lips, nose, and chin. Sounds like half the people in Hollywood if you ask me.
gasmonso http://religiousfreaks.com/Don't believe it!
:)
A revolutionary medical technique allows an undercover agent to take the physical appearance of a major criminal and infiltrate his organization.
Oh wait, is this a movie?
sucks to get your face wrecked by a dog......but what sucks more, that or waiting in line at dmv and then explaining that yes, this is your real face while trying to get a new picture.
But,but,but...what if the brain-dead patient suddenly wakes up and decides to kill everyone who knew about the operation, even though he wasn't awake to know who they were ?
--Concerned movie freak.
I think growing human parts on animals is our best bet (like this mouse with a human ear on it). However mice would be too small for a whole face. How creepy would it be to drive by a herd of cows with human faces growing all over them???
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
"The ethical concerns of a face transplant...."
Someone's already supposedly cloned a human embryo. I wouldn't worry about facial transplants too much.
When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
Even if you got a face transplant, you wouldn't look like the face of the donor. Your bone structure etc is what makes up most of your appearance. Although, you wouldn't like you use to. So I don't see how ethics would really take a roll in this matter.
The ethical considerations have been raised because, apparently, the team of surgeons attempted this risky procedure without exhausting all the other options. Now, I'm not going to say that this woman shouldn't have a face transplant if she's aware that the face might rot and fall off, leaving her even more damaged, and that even in the best of all possible outcomes she'll be on drugs that will drastically increast her chance of cancer for the rest of her life, but if the doctors talked her into a face transplant without trying other solutions first, it's possible that they were in it solely to enhance their own reputations.
http://www.jerriblank.com/swcep205.html
"Eyes without a Face" by Billy Idol was heard playing in the background of the operating room.
This was followed by "The Real Me" by the Who and the Pixies' "Broken Face."
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
It seems strange that they would have held back on this kind of proceedure because of concerns with psychological reactions to looking different. It would seem that there would be a number of people out there who would take a whole new face over the remains of one chewed off, blown off, or burned off...
Or maybe there is more concern over the situation depicted in the film, "Face off"?
For the people involved in the reconstruction, I hope it works out well.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
I found an interesting article here from 2004 about the future of face transplants. Apparently they take the face off of a cadavre and then surgically put it on a live person, which makes sense, but as another poster referenced, reminds me of something like silence of the lambs. But if I had to make the choice of having no face/seriously f*d up face, or someone else's...I can't even be sure what I would choose :o
r ansplant/
chin up.
Some other reading on the matter: http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/05/26/face.t
Censorship is obscene. Patriotism is bigotry. Faith is a vice. Slashdot 2.0 sucks.
While everyone makes a big deal about Face/Off, because they took the idea of a face transplant literally, the idea of surgery making you look like someone else has been around for quite a while.
For example, in Arsenic and Old Lace, one of the plot points involved a criminal whose looks have been altered to resemble Boris Karloff. In the stage play, this part was actually performed by Karloff.
Here we go. Time for all of the inane "Face/Off" replies as though no one else would have possibly thought of it. I guess that we should all just laugh hysterically and use the idiotic TripMaster Monkey anime smiles to make the Face/Off posters feel complete.
[holding sides laughing] Oh, GOD! "Face/Off"! I would never have thought of that! Oh, that is SO-O-O-O funny! I'm laughing too hard! Oh, look! Another reference! Please! Stop![/holding sides laughing]
There. I hope the "Face/Off" people feel better now.
Go ahead. Mod me down. The really sad part what I've said is 100% true. Then again, Slashdot replies often don't care about truth.
What is so difficult about a face but we can grow other parts.
http://www.pbs.org/saf/1107/features/body.htm
As far as doctor's being up against any wall if they have to choose whether or not to completely change somebody's face, well, all I have to say to that is money talks and there's always someone with open ears, if you know what I mean. Besides, have you seen any of the before/after shots on that website (google is your friend) that shows the celebs with overdone plastic surgery? Jeebuz, the doctors that *did* those jobs *should* be up against a wall somewhere, man! ;)
Even if this was a full face transplant the person would not look exactly like the donor. The reason is because of the different underlying bone structure. So the person who gets the full face transplant will not look like the donor and they will not look like themselves. They will look more like a cross between the two. Also I doubt that they would take the face of someone who is not braindead and whos family has not given permission to turn off life support after the transplant is done, just like they do for most transplants now.
This could be urban legend, but a few years back some Mexican drug lord tried to get a face transplant and didn't survive long.
Anyone else remember this?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I don't think (at least from my cultural background) that there is a concern with transplanting a face--it is just like any other donated organ. However, in many cultures the face has great significance that is deeply meshed into the sociological values and even linguistics of their lives. Many Native American languages, for example use the concept of the face to identify everything. For example the phrase --ru li che'--in the native American language of K'ekchi' literally translates as 'face of the tree', but what it is really talking about is 'fruit'. If you are familiar with someone, you would say --ninau ru-- meaning "I know his face". In such cultures the removal of a face removes identity. In this case you destroy the identity of one, and replace the other--which would have deep psychology implications to these types of cultures.
So I think the problem here is not whether it is right or wrong, legal or illegal, but what is morally reprehensible to society. And since this is an issue that really hasn't been traversed before, I think it only predictable that there be hesitation to undergo such a procedure.
We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
The 38-year-old French patient from the northern French town of Valenciennes underwent extensive counselling before her operation, which is believed to have lasted at least five hours...
From the no hyperbole dept..
Apparently they take the face off of a cadavre and then surgically put it on a live person, which makes sense, but as another poster referenced, reminds me of something like silence of the lambs.
Funny. Where do you think most organs for transplants come from? I'm pretty sure there aren't any living heart donors. It's OK to accept hearts, kidneys, lungs and corneas from cadavers, but faces cross the line. Not that I disagree with you, but it's interesting how our perceptions are tainted like that.
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I'm guessing these face donors won't have open caskets at their funerals....
I think not.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4816435/
Orlan is an artist who has taken facial reconstruction to the extremes.
Health Insurance Quotes
What happens if the immuno-suppressant drugs stop working and there isn't another donor available? (would it be best not to watch hockey, in case there was a face off?)
for a more accurate description of the technique.
Given that skin cells are constantly being shedded and regenerating, wouldn't this (slowly) transform back into the recipiant's original face?
Or would a skin sample from the transplant area show different DNA for all time?
I'm genuinely curious. Is there a doctor in the house?
DG
Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
Seriously - what is this going to mean for the terrorism fanatics in the UK,US and AU governments ?
EMail: 0110001101100010010000000110001101110010 0110000101111010011011100110000101110010 0010111001100011011011110110
"and the psychological impact to the patient of looking different has held teams back."
I would have thought that the patient would have had to confront that problem already.
I dont see this being any different to major organ transplant, just the media having else to report.
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I think you're right the /. motto be changed, but may I suggest, "Slashdot.org: Stories like Digg, Discussions that don't suck."?
/. isn't the place to be. But if you want spirited, intelligent discussion of news, /. is awesome. Given, /. has it's share of trolls and bigots, but no matter how much some people hate on it, the moderation system does take care of them -- much like it's taking care of you now.
If you want up-to-the-nanosecond news,
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Add [/.] to your user name for the Slashdot Clan, haha.
I don't understand where this "will I look like the donor?" comes from. It's just a bunch of skin, maybe a bit of musculature? Even if you have the wrinkles (from the musculature) that the donor has, it will be on your own - completely different - skull. I don't see how you'd look anything like the donor. Nor would you look exactly like you did before - but you'd probably look better than being featureless and/or heavily scarred.
picpix image polls. create - share - vote. fun!
A. They always win the face-off!
(I did try to put "(ice-)" before "hockey" in the title, but the damn' character limit got me...)
Call me old fashioned, but I like a dump to be as memorable as it is devastating - Bender
No problem - if it ain't on ice, it ain't hockey.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
I guess the French have found a new way to save face.
I'm so ashamed, mod me down.
[signature]
This totally changes the meaning of the Chinese/Japanese "saving face" concept. I can understand replacing a face that's been eaten by a dog, but it's only a matter of time before the wealthy are buying people's faces. I can see it now: "oh, honey. that young girl is so pretty. I must have her face, buy it for me won't you?"
- I voted for Nintendo and against Bush
So if she stops taking the drugs, will her body eat her new face? That's just nasty. :\
Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
I grew up with one-quarter of my face missing in action. When I was two, doctors removed the upper left quadrant of my face including the eyelids and the skin down to the bottom of my nose. Twenty operations and fifteen years later I finally got working (but not very pretty) eyelids again. The person undergoing the face transplant has already suffered the psychological impact of loosing their original face and the impact of being treated like some kind of monster. The trauma of getting a different face can't possibly be any worse.
No. Its actually a french movie called EYES WITHOUT A FACE (158)
How bad would it suck to reject your own face?
"I have as much authority as the pope, I just
don't have as many people who believe it" - George Carlin
Something like that.
You say this as if you think it is
a) easy to kidnap someone worth swapping faces with, including someone who has other similar physical characteristics (some are easier, e.g. body style, hair color; some are difficult, e.g. extreme height or weight differences, skin color)
b) an easy and painless procedure that doesn't require months of healing
c) easy to find a doctor who has the necessary skills who doesn't already have more money than you could possibly offer to perform the procedure for an illicit reason
d) easy to reprogram your personality and habits to blend in in the places where the person whose face you "swapped" with yours would be known or well-known (what's the point of stealing someone's physical identity if not to gain access to the places that person would normally have access to, but which you do not?)
Nobody wants to be an organ donor. It just seems like the right thing to say. Organ donors are for people with no faith at all. What if they figure out a way to bring you back fromt he dead? And now I don't got no eyes. Ain't this a bitch! Back from the dead and I can't see shit.
If an officer ever threatens to taze you, say you have a pacemaker.
What about maintenance? Supposing a poor person could afford a procedure, how on earth would they pay for prescriptions? Prices have skyrocketed in the past few decades, meanwhile, Merck spends over 60% of their budget on Marketing, mostly in telling the middle and upper classes what designer drugs they should ask their doctor about, as well as random kickbacks for doctors to prescribe their brand exclusively.
What about malpractice insurance? This is probably the #1 cause of inflated health care prices, our overly-litigious society is effectively killing services, private and governmental, while trial lawyers are cleaning up.
It's not all the government's fault, Captain Industry.
--- What
"Help control the pet population... have your pets spayed and neutered!"
"Funny, most people I know pray they don't live in the US when they get ill, as a major illness effectively means bankruptcy."
Bullshit.
There are dozens of ways out of such a situation, and in the cases of people who genuninely can't afford care, the hospitals usually write it off.
How pathetic are you that you follow me from topic to topic and waste all your mod points at once modding me down?
The same Canada that just voted their Congress out of office?
No, that's the one in your imagination. We're talking about the one in the real world, which doesn't have the US
The same Canada that almost killed a friend of mine whose plane was grounded on 9/11, got a stomach flu and almost died in a Canadian hospital while he waited THREE DAYS for a doctor to see him?
Possibly - if your friend didn't go to a walk-in clinic (as was already suggested.)
The same Canada where people are on waiting lists for years for a basic MRI
No, that's the one from your imagination again.
Existing technologies are sufficient to reconstruct the face without the need for immunosuppressants for the rest of the recipient's life.
Skin grafts are sufficient to construct a working face, but they're not sufficient to construct a face that will be presentable to a patient's employer's customers. Many customers would be turned off looking at some of the people I saw in a Discovery Health special about face transplantation.
A skull face would be kewel!
First cloning and now face transplants... His plan is coming to fruition.
Oops...sorry, wrong website.
if it ain't on ice, it ain't hockey.
Given the popularity of field hockey in many countries outside the frigid zone, your statement is horse hockey. Let me guess: you're either Canadian or Canadien.
As others have said, you don't have it quite right. That you were moderated up seems to reflect a large number of your kind, which is not surprising. But you also seem to have created a fictional America as well!
Canadians didn't vote anyone out of office, and they don't have a Congress in the first place. Canadian MPs challenged the government and successfully pressured them into holding an election. That doesn't mean that the Liberals won't be forming the government again or that anyone is being forced out of office. Paul Martin is the Prime Minister until he resigns, even after January's election results are available.
The Canada of long lines and delays is very much exaggerated. I'm an American, but I live in Canada. Yes, it takes longer for simple procedures. But the reason for that is that everyone who needs those procedures are now getting them done instead of looking for money to pay for them. If you cut away half of the people needing health care, I bet the lines would be a helluva lot shorter. And they're not that long anyway--priority placement is available for more immediate health risks. You aren't kept in some hallway dying because the MRI machine has a lineup.
More importantly, though, where is this United States where complex medical procedures were readily available? Basic check ups and simple procedures might be harder now, but you never got housecall organ transplants, and if you think that surgery was more affordable (and safe) before taxation and regulation, you might want to look deeper into real history. Yes, HMOs are wasteful and problematic and greedy. They're terrible. But insurance premiums didn't go up because of the government, and HMOs are just as guilty of mismanagement as the legislation that guides them.
The Canadian system is far from perfect, but the American system is far from existing at all. Seriously.
Overall, Canada's health care system is okay but its not a Godsend. I am living in California now with Kaiser HMO and it is roughly twice as good as Canada's health care system. I truly feel sorry for people without medical insurance because they will go bankrupt if they get sick though.
From what I've heard from Canadian's down here, the health care system in Canada has really started to tear itself apart over the last decade, apparently it was pretty dmaned good before that. Sadly, it's a mirror image of what's happening here in the US. We, as employees, are having to pay a larger and larger share of our health bills. It nothing close to horrendous yet, a bit over $2000 a year factoring in co-pays for 2 people in my case.There are still wait times, but they're really very minor, a week or 2 tops for an MRI. As a hockey player I've had several, and a few surgeries to top it off, but never a bill over a few hundred bucks total in all that time. Now, if I was unemployed, life would be a far cry less funny, healthcare wise, that if I were unemployed in Canada.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
What do you mean by "go after"? A friend of mine severely sliced his hand, and required immediate surgery two years ago, and got an $800 bill that he couldn't, and didn't, pay. Sure, the hospital didn't send their thugs after him, but his credit rating is now trash, and the hospital will now refuse care on him, except in dire circumstances.
--- What
Now I can really be a woman when I get my sex change done :D
The population of Gander Newfoundland is about 10k people, on 9/11 there was about 10k people stranded there for a few days. Was that where your friend got stuck? Things were, naturally, a little messed up with trying to feed and shelter that many people. Sorry about that but do you really think some remote outpost in Alaska caould handle taking care of that many people much better? Next time feel free to have all those planes circle over the ocean until they run out of fuel. http://www.snopes.com/rumors/gander.htm
Actually nip/tuck stole the idea straight from a Discovery channel documentary about face transplants that aired several months ago that I happened to Tivo. They stole all the elements of the girl who lost her face, including how the girl got her face ripped off.
In the documentary, this girl from India got too close to a machine and her hair got tangled up and literally ripped off her face. The showed the face and it looked gory... you could see the eye sockets, etc. The uncle or something put the girl's face in plastic bag and motorscootered for like 3 hrs to get to the closest hospital where they managed to reattach it. They showed her like years later, and considering the fact that she had her face ripped off, it wasn't so bad. She didn't look regular, but at least that poor girl didn't look horrendous.
The also showed some people in the documentary that looked like monsters. Literally like monsters, I can't describe it more. Like something you would see out of Doom 3, it was horrifying, and if you see these people, you will understand why face transplants are necessary. You can't live the way this person lives, with the completed destroyed face, because no one, and I mean no one, can stand to look at them. We're not talking about ugly people, we're talking about they look like walking, talking monsters. I'm a grown man, but when I saw this lady, I wanted to cry because that is no way to live a life. I would rather be on immunosuppresants for 15 years and die of kidney failure and be able to walk around in public rather than live the way this poor woman has been living.
I had to stop watching the show halfway because it was too much to bear, just too shocking, and I used to frequent alt.binaries.pictures.tasteless during the golden era where they had pictures of murder victims, people sawing dead bodies in half, etc. It was too horrifying for me, and I thank God to have never undergone something like that and hope that I never will have to, and to those people that require a face transplant, I wish them the best of luck in getting this face transplant thing working.
Because people are willing to pay. That's how the market works.
Did you know that in the US in 2006, more children will grow up in homes that have declared bankruptcy than will grow up with divorced parents?
Did you also know that as of 2004, over 50% of all bankruptcies in the US are directly related to a major medical illness somewhere in the family?
50% Medical Bankruptcy article (2005)
Article stating number of bankruptcies in 1999 (~ 500,000 families)
Article stating number of bankruptcies in 2001 (~ 1.5 million families)
--- What
Here's my big problem with social health care: getting rid of personal responsibility and giving people an out for basic problems.
My doctor friends see more people for non-problems that 20 years ago would be taken care of with soup and bed rest. One of my doctor friends wastes almost 30% of his day just seeing old people who come up with problems in order to be around others. I don't have his quote unfortunately, but it's true.
When the government can steal from the masses to pay for your problems, you tend to not protect yourself against the problems. Have you seen how many fat bastards are out there? It is disgusting. Being fat is likely causing 50%+ of the problems we're seeing in medicine today! STOP EATING SO MANY SUGARS, people.
I was fat for about 2 years. I went to the doctor at least every 3 months with various pains and problems. I cut my carbs and trans fats and I'm back to my high school weight and health. I go yearly for a check up that I pay CASH for. I am significantly healthier.
Yet I look around me and see society getting fatter and unhealthier every day. If people had to pay for their own care and insurance rather than forcing hospitals and companies to subsidize it, I think we'd see people living healthier lives.
No offense to any chunky geeks out there, but I have to tell you -- I was that way for a few years and for many of you, it is far easier to lose the weight that you'd believe.
This is sort of off-topic, but a full day's stay in emergency care in the US would be a lot more than $300. Even with insurance, you'd probably still have to pay a hefty deductible, that may be as high or higher than that $300, depending on your plan; if you're in an HMO, and that's not your hospital, forget it.
--- What
Maybe you'd like to talk to my son who got sick and was out of work for several weeks. During that time, the company he worked for had a layoff (which included him as he would have been laid off anyhow) Now he's collecting a pittance on unemployment, trying to take care of his daughter as a single parent.
The various hospitals, doctors and specialists' collection agencies have made his life a miserable hell to the point where he's unwilling to answer the telephone. These incredibly intense losers have even gone so far as to call me here at work to "try to convince him to make a payment" or suggest that I give him the use of a credit card to pay off the debt.
The world according to SComps
I'm with you 100% on personal responsibility, but I think you'll have to agree that other major Western democracies with healthcare systems do not produce these results. Canadians are much slimmer than Americans, as are the people in all of the EU states. The United States is one of the only (or maybe THE only) Western democracy without funded healthcare programs for its citizens. 65% of Americans are overweight or obese now. There's not really a causal relationship there, though.
Fat and wasteful are becoming almost objectives in and of themselves for the "average" American. I don't think a functioning health care system in the US would lead to fatter people. I do think that people would continue getting heavier and lazier, but not having to pay out of pocket isn't the cause. Being American is the cause, with the mentality that has come to be dominant in our country.
The talk was of a high failure rate. What happens if there is tissue rejection or there isn't sufficent blood flow? We are talking significant tissue loss and potentially leaving the patient in far worse shape than they were before, likely dead. They may be trading scar tissue for something closer to that shot in Face Off showing exposed muscle. How long can you survive like that? How many people would have face lifts if the survival rate was 50/50? Is it right to do cosmetic sugery that has a high failure rate and the potential for such tragic results? Remember the doctors oath about do no harm? For a purely cosmetic proceedure the risk is still far too high and would seem to go against the fundimental tenants of being a physician.
This is old news.. I saw a documentary on this the other week on FX. They called it somthing like Nip and Tucker or Tip and Nucker... NipTuck.. maybe that was it..
> I am completely against 1 tier health system: imagine a world where
> only Microsoft was allowed to write software and to write software you
> had to work for Microsoft.
Of course, you know nearly everyone on Slashdot hates Microsoft and that's why you picked them. But the monopoly in healthcare in Canada isn't like Microsoft its sometimes mismanaged and slow but not evil. Maybe more like IBM. If it was like Google (fast moving and innovative) it would be great.
Also you forgot the "secret". Most Canadians live within 200 miles of the US border. If you have money you can go there for an MRI.
I hardly think this sort of story needs to be broadcast up to the nanosecond. In fact, despite WW3 breaking out, a killer asteroid approaching or the next wave of killer flu pandemic, I think there isn't much news that warrants your purported speed of delivery. And then still, it won't be digg with the first story on those sorts of things. It will be a massive news organization like Reuters.
/. for it's lack of nanosecond reporting. Nor did I say news should be reported as such. My point is, Slashdot is a good site for the discussion, not the news. People who bash /. because it's got slower stories than Digg are idiots because that's not what /. is about.
/., I probably never will. I guess I'll make my opposition to posts like the GP a little more blatant next time, sheesh.
Never did I say I dislike
So, stop being the tragic person who needs to be different to seek attention. Just read both sites and be done with it.
If you're setting there hitting refresh on digg every 5 seconds, why aren't you doing any work! I'd fire you immediately if you were my employee - actually, you may be... time to do the rounds.
For the record, I don't read digg, and unless the discussion gets really crappy here on
This sig rocks the casbah.
Especially if they already know you! :-)
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
... right off your head."
If we start facing the sort of crime implied in this song, it kinda makes Robert Hunter seem a little prophetic, no?
A single tier health care system that is moving and innovative? My friend, you just found another way to define an oxymoron. A legally enforced single tier anything cannot be moving and innovating and efficient and effective in principle. A monopoly has no reason, no competition to do any of it. Oh, sure, it would be great, but it doesn't work. The only other countries except for Canada, where private health insurance is illegal are... drum rolls... Cuba and North Korea. I want my choices. Sure, I can south for an MRI scan. People I know do it. They go further, they go to Germany for surgeries (cheaper than the States and done instantly unlike in Canada, and they have the newest procedures and equipment in place unlike Canada.) But it is STUPID and WRONG to require your fucking tax payers to do that.
You can't handle the truth.
slice of liver...
half a kidney...
(drools)
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
And in the US, if you can't remember somebody's name, and don't necessarily have a lot of respect for him, you refer to him as "what's his face"...
Procrastination -- because good things come to those who wait.
A. They always win the face-off!
(I did try to put "(ice-)" before "hockey" in the title, but the damn' character limit got me...)
Well, ice- sure beats tonsil- given the circumstances.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
The same Canada that just voted their Congress out of office?
Its sad when someone think he has such good points about a subject and proceed to look like an ass at the first sentence he says.
The same Canada that almost killed a friend of mine whose plane was grounded on 9/11, got a stomach flu and almost died in a Canadian hospital while he waited THREE DAYS for a doctor to see him?
I find that very unlikely. Last winter I had a hiccup that lasted 3 days non-stop. Growing tired of it, I went to a walk-in clinic, and got examined within the hour. For a hiccup.
I pray I am never doing business in Canada when I get ill.
I pray you never do business in Canada. Period.
Next new medical procedure will be Ass transplants.
Hey if they use Ass tissue to repair someone's face
then they truly would have their head up their ass?
(might explain a few things on capital hill.....)
How different is a person going to look with the skin of another person? Doesn't bone structure define more of a look than the skin itself? And really, how bad can it be to look a little like someone else compared to HAVING NO FACE AT ALL. Geez.
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
Thanks. He died in 1997 "after undergoing extensive plastic surgery to change his appearance."
:)
Did I just start an urban legend?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Having had a big swath of my forehead flesh disconnected from its nerves in a car accident, I can tell you that you get used to it. And, no, you don't want to pull it off. When it first happens, it's an injury and you do all you can to avoid touching it altogether. After it heals, you're used to not messing with it. By that point, you're accustomed to the way it feels anyway.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
This is horrible! What are Hannibal, B.A., and Murdoch going to do without Face?
Science takes its cues from Nip/Tuck. How frightening!
no, from Tony Hawk, after all, they just did a faceplant...
Karma, karma burning bright...
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
"Dying"! Wow, that sounds like a serious problem they have up there... that might go some length in explaining why Canadians, on average, do not live as long as Americans...
... oh, wait - the reverse is true. Hmm...
my religion lies somewhere between buddhism and super monkey ball - pamphlet?
You generally shouldn't have to pay when going into an out of province clinic, unless Quebec is involved. The province's health plans, with the exception of Quebec, have a standing arangement under which they agree to pay the service fees as dictated by the province in which you receive treatment, even if the fee in that province is higher than the one from you native province. Essentially, if a routine visit costs $50 in Ontario and $75 in Newfoundland, and you are in NF on vacation and have to run in to the doctor, OHIP (the Ontarion health care plan) will pay the NF doctor $75 and not their usual $50. Quebec only pays what their fee happens to be for the procedure and as that is generally pretty stingy, most non-Quebec doctors will require upfront payment to ensure they get their full amount.
That being said, the clinic/hospital may charge you if they have had problems with payments in the past from your particular provincial medical plan but it should not be the norm. AFAIK, I don't believe there is anything in place to legally dictate their procedures one way or the other.
And I agree, the grandparents story doesn't sit well with me either. I've only had to go to the doctor 3 times in the last 8 years (at least twice because I was feeling terrible and also bored at work but that third time, well I can just say that benign positional vertigo is a lot more interesting than it sounds) and the longest I had to wait was about 45 minutes. Of course, unless I'm in need of actual surgery I tend to think of going to a clinic first and not the full fledged hospital.
As for the queue for MRIs and the such for serious medical problems, it is definately a mess. I know of a friend of a friend (I only met her once in passing) who was diagnosed with terminal cancer a year and a half ago and the earliest she could get in for the necessary tests to pinpoint the tumors for more accurate treatment was a month after the date the doctor told her she would be dead by. She was given 4-5 months to live and the earliest opening on the critical list was 6 months away. The doctor was actually telling her to buy Christmas gifts for her kids in July and the earliest she could get tested was in January. In the end the additional tests probably wouldn't have helped a whole lot, but the entire situation was a terrible indictment on how our system is failing.
Of course that's just my opinion...... you could be wrong!
That's no big deal, most people on either coast fail to see any moral distinction between the two anyway.
And you do? I'm not on either coast, but I don't see that much difference between killing innocent Iraqis for God and/or to retaliate for past injustices and killing innocent Americans for Alla and/or to retaliate for past injustices. For that matter, I don't see that much difference between torturing people because they might be plotting against your pseudo-Islamic regime and torturing people because they might be plotting against your pseudo-Christian regime. Or keeping people in secret prisons in your own country, vs. keeping them in secret prisons in other countries...
Oh wait, I've drifted into confusing Bin Laden and Sadam again. I don't know how they got so muddled in my mind.
--MarkusQ
If it was merely the terminology that you got wrong here then it would be somewhat forgivable (i.e. calling 'parliament' 'congress', although in truth they aren't entirely isomorphic). But you're also completely off-base on the basic concepts.
And even if you weren't so obviously and entirely wrong, what does this have to do with health care systems, which is what the rest of your posting is about? Governments get turfed from office in all kinds of countries for all kinds of reasons all the time. It's not always about health care, and it's not like the hospitals have closed while we're waiting for the new election.
This so doesn't track with any experience I've ever had or anyone else I know has ever had. For some reason, I'm more inclined to think that you're trolling than to give you the benefit of the doubt.
There are some waiting lists for some things. My wife waited 10 months for some elective, non-crucial foot surgery. (Bunyon stuff.)
A few months ago my cousin, on the other hand, went into a hospital in a rural area on Saturday morning with a severe headache and blurred vision. That afternoon she was in a downtown Toronto hospital where she received 3 MRIs in quick succession. Her brain tumour removal surgery was done 4 days later. She's now just completing her first course of chemo and radiation therapy.
A few years ago my father had a heart attack. His double-bypass was done 4 days later, and would have been done sooner if it wasn't for that they initially put him on some blood thinners that they had to let get out of his system. After 3 days he had exploratory surgery so that they could find out what was wrong. That was done in the morning -- he was offered to have the bypass done that afternoon. (He decided to wait until the next day for unrelated reasons.)
There is more money in the US healthcare system. I think that per capita the US spends two times as much as Canada does, but it's not spent efficiently. (My wife recently did an inspection of a health complex in Atlanta, and she told me she was amazed at how much money was spent on the office space. All marble and art-work and indoor fountains.) Whatever waiting lists (and other issues) there are here could be completely dispelled if we went up to 2/3 the US level, IIRC.
Cheers,
Richard
And we all know how well that worked out for the Galactic republic senate! Just make sure the people you're replacing them with aren't part of some evil cult...
Really curious.
....This article from september http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/1 9/175236&tid=103&tid=14/
Purple, because ice cream has no bones.
> You'd have to hope for DNA or some other, more sure way of identifying the person.
Like fingerprints?
Virg
This was 12 years ago, so I'm sure the price has gone up dramatically.
I had to take an uninsured friend to the ER a few times over the summer. It cost over a thousand dollars just to get a quick once-over. Oddly enough, staying overnight "only" added about five hundred dollars.
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
Typical conversation with a libertarian over comparisons between healthcare systems in United States and Canada:
Libertarian: I heard about some guy in Canada who had to wait like six months for [medical operation]...
Other: Yeah but 45 million Americans who don't have any healtcare coverage.
The discourse will repeat in this manner for a number of minutes. The Libertarian may grow belligerent and/or question your patriotism.
my religion lies somewhere between buddhism and super monkey ball - pamphlet?
How can someone report on a revolutionary FACE transplant and not feature before and after photos? We are all dying (no pun intended) to see the "hybrid" face.
cpeterso
Ironic it was the French who did this first...
Eyes Without a Face
"Finally I can get back my 80's face"
Don't ya hate it when the correct spelling of your favorite screen name is taken?
you're assuming he hasn't actually spoke to them, and attempted to work with them. In most cases the hospital was easy to work with, however once it gets to a certain point the accountants pass it to collections, and then all hell breaks loose. You're very quick to judge without any information.
The fact that my son is putting his daughter first in his life, and trying to get back on his feet makes me very proud of him. That he has those values speaks a fair bit for his parenting skills, and to a lesser degree my own.
As far as my helping him, I'm barely making ends meet myself. I'd hope that what little financial assistance I can offer him to get by on his week to week expenses would be considered a good thing, but then again you didn't know that either.
However, my parenting skills and my son's sense of values is not what I was responding to. The statement was made that most medical bills accrued by poor patients are written off. While they may be written off after some time, it's not before the organization ruins you financially and pushes you to the brink of bankruptsy or beyond.
The world according to SComps
Hand xeno-transplants were considered an intermediate step between organ transplants and face tranplants. The largest count I've seen in google is 22 attempts and guess there may have been several dozen more. The first was nortorious for being the first and on an ex-con who stopped taking rejection drugs.
The hand is non-vital organ like the face. You wont have a shorten lifespan much missing either. Beacause both a external and functionally useful organs, missing either has serious psychological consequences. The medical and psychological lessons from hand transplants are probably useful for face transplants. Some recipients have mentioned identity issues of having someone else's parts on the outside of their body. I dont know how many regained reasonable nerve control or just feels like a prothestic.
Dogg, you got flat schooled on the other post. If you'd listen to what I said, my point was that they "went after" him for as much as they could for a "pissant amount". Yes, $800 is not much at all. However, should a HOSPITAL--that is, an organization created to serve the health needs of the greater population--ruin someone's credit and disallow any future service to someone over what you admit to a drop in the bucket? I sure don't think so. Your original point was that hospitals never ever screw over poor people who can't afford huge medical bills, write it off, and everyone wins. I was telling an anecdote where that didn't happen, even though it was a small amount. Do you really think if he had an emergency appendectomy they wouldn't have ruined his credit much in the same way if he didn't pay? Can you seriously not remember back more than one post?
Cut.
--- What
Check that one out, it's pretty scary. And the extras are great too (of course, coming from Criterion, no less...). http://criterionco.com/asp/release.asp?id=260
is the phrase: "tissues, muscles, arteries and veins."
This sounds like they went to the bone as far as where they stopped removing tissues to put on the inured woman. The muscle structure would give the shape of the face, but I cannot imagine that she'd look much like the donor, unless they had identical bone strucure underneath it all.
I'm pretty sure if I was brain dead [really braindead, and not just my normal state of dumb], and my long and skinny face was donated to my short and stocky friend; he wouldn't look that much like me. He WOULD look really frikkin different when you consider the fact that things like the nose and lips are all soft tissue, and were "items" that were transplanted, but not look like me. Similar to me, maybe.
Its a little creepy, but good for the woman that got her face back, even if it's a new one. I just hope it doesnt get to the point where people are saying "man, I wish I could have gotten my face from a better looking person..."
s'wut i sed.
I'm sure someone will mention this...
Canada doesn't have a congress.
We have a parliament.
We didn't vote them out of office.
It was a minority government, and the three opposition parties got together and introduced a non confident motion that the parliament voted on. So, they won, and now we have an election in January.
The US doesn't work that way. But your ignorance of the Canadian system surely qualifies your statements about Canadian health care.
If I want to go to a private clinic or hospital, I can. Universal health care provides baseline service for everyone. If you can afford otherwise, you can do otherwise.
Its a bit different than the Private ambulance company driving past the closest hospital because your HMO isn't serviced there.
/\/\icro/\/\uncher
Actually, I heard it on the radio, but it's also present in page 5 of the financial section of Merck's Annual Report. My bad though, it was 50%, not 60%. Clearly, that means that I have a bias. Sorry to waste your time.
--- What
Did you expect to make me feel bad? All you've done is reinforce my point.
Your son has responsibilities. Great raise the kid, do a GOOD job, and you have reason to be proud.
But that doesn't change the fact that he owes money. You're not allowed to ignore those things.
But whatever. You've decided, so good luck. Seriously. But I have a serious question to ask. Why haven't you dropped the a-bomb and threatened the creditors?
Settle or get nothing. That's what you tell them, and from the sound of it your son is exactly what the bankruptcy process is for.
It's not a character check. It doesn't mean you're a bad person. It just means you had money problems. If THOSE came from character problems, well then you'll have to fix that.
And no business worth a shit will take nothing over something. It just doesn't work that way.
How pathetic are you that you follow me from topic to topic and waste all your mod points at once modding me down?
Check this out: -1 Overrated for an argument for 2 tier health care system in Canada. Sure, you can moderate /., but this is not the place where it matters, our bliberal government was given a non-confidence vote. I hope Conservatives get to power and allow Canadians a choice - a choice to legally buy private health care insurance.
You can't handle the truth.
As a canadian, I feel I have to reply to this grossly misleading statement. It seems that most people in the USA think that the canadian health system is a train wreck with horrible waiting times and poor care quality.
I'm going to describe my last encounter with our horrible socialist health system. Three weeks ago, my mother fell sick. She had horrible stomach cramps, they hurt so much that she wasn't able to walk when she had them, she actually compared the pain to giving birth.
At 10AM, we arrive to the hospital. It takes 20 minutes to see a nurse, which gives her case a "high" priority, due to the pain severity. One hour later, she was with a doctor and was taking radios. They found her liver was almost blocked by rocks (sorry if it's not the correct english medical term, I'm translating from french). Then they gave her a bed in the emergency area, after supper they transferred her to a room.
Day 2, 1 PM. They transferred her to the operation block. At 3 PM, she was having surgery. It lasted just over one hour.
Day 3, Surgery went fine, though she had one more terrible cramp. They thought it was probably one of the freed rocks passing through, but they decided to do a MRI scan just to make sure.
Day 4. They gave her a MRI scan, to make sure they had gotten rid of all the rocks. Later that evening, MRI results were negative, she went home.
My point by telling you this is that, from my experience, and from the experience of people I know, this is very representative of the quality of health care you can expect here. If someone has a life-threatening condition, they most definitely do *not* wait for months to get surgery. It's a matter of days.
However, service for rural areas is typically a bit slower than for heavily populated areas, but even then, the most I've heard for urgent surgery was 2-3 weeks. There are some operations that do indeed have very long wait times, those that are classified "quality of life" in importance. For example, one of my friends had serious back pains, caused by something with his spine. He had to wait 11 months before he could get surgery, which pretty much sucked, because his condition was very painful.
Anyway, all this to say, our health system works pretty well. Yes, I heard some horror cases, especially in the great plains provinces (health care in Canada is managed by the province governments, not by the federal one), but here in Quebec, the care given to my family, friends and myself has always been top-notch.
I have never, ever, heard of it taking 3 days to see a doctor, for any reason. If things are that bad anywhere in Canada, then someone has seriously dropped the ball. I can see a generalist within 2 hours, without notice, anytime I want.
Here are some fun little facts about our horrible health care system:
- Canadians spend less money on health care per capita than the USA. In spite of this, the World Health Organisation ranks the average quality of health care received in Canada above the US one.
- For the last 8 years, Canada not only balanced its budget, it's been having a surplus (and some years it has been a considerable one). Yes, we are heavily taxed. However, we have an average quality of life above the US one, once again according to the WHO.
Basically, we're both socialist and for fiscal responsibility. Bet you didn't expect that, eh? Anyway, my whole point is, here in Socialist Canada, thing aren't going nearly as badly as you seem to think. We're doing just fine, thank you. I'm sure there have been some bad mistakes made regarding healthcare, but those are the rare exceptions, not the rule.
Religion is the best example of mass psychosis
Score parent -1 naive.
Debt is not accumulated. Debt is inherited. The federal debt to the Federal Reserve is a real debt. The priority to pay it off is low. The interest accumulating from that debt is rising. The debt is borne by the people through taxes. The Federal Government has sold the taxpaying majority into inescapable debt. This is managed through a pyramid scheme of wages and taxes. Up to a take home pay of $43k/year an individual is constantly seeking systems (clipping coupons, sale hunting, roommates, selling drugs, whatever) to help them keep up with the daily cost of living. Only above a take home pay of $43k/year is the daily cost of living sufficiently covered such that real investment potential is realized. Yes, a great majority of people live on incomes well below this level--and every single one of them is either astronomically frugal (not to be expected of anyone considering the wealth of this nation) or living paycheck to paycheck and constantly in danger of falling into debt. This is through no fault of their own. Again, considering the wealth of this nation, this situation is completely unacceptable.
The bankruptcy system is not designed to help anyone. It's designed to legally lock people into a system which can continually track them.
Combine the two and you have a taxpaying population of indentured servants. Go ahead and argue. You're wrong.
It's possible that the person you're debating with has a ridiculously irresponsible son who ran up debts buying ice cream and donuts. That's always the default argument. Pointing out a few irresponsible people does not justify the system of exploitation.
fast as fast can be. you'll never catch me.
The article says people won't look like the donor nor themselves, but a hybrid. Which only makes sense, the bone underlying the fascia, muscles, skin etc will make a big difference. Their ethical concern comes in when the donor can't be dead. They (for reasons unspecified in the article) have to take the face donation from a "beating heart" donor, who may continue to live once their own respirator is turned off.
Besides, the world isn't television. Criminals don't use plastic surgery to escape detection/conviction etc; they wouldn't need someone else's face to do that either.
This is all so horror-show!
O~ Him that studies revenge keeps his own wounds green. -- Francis Bacon
YES ANARCHY NOW!!!
Overthrow the government in the name of the proletariat!
Blegh, whatever kook. Tell it to Che or somebody else who takes cranks like you seriously.
I love you guys, you always make me laugh.
How pathetic are you that you follow me from topic to topic and waste all your mod points at once modding me down?
The way I understand it, they transplanted the skin of the face. Thats not a face transplant. Thats a face skin transplant. The patient will probably look like her original self more than the donor. Thats because the face structure is created more by the skull shape than the skin. Now the patient will have a different face skin color, and hair features (shes not getting it from Mullah Omar is she?). But will be recognized as herself in the end. This should really be called face skin transplant.
A real face transplant would be incredibly difficult, and might as well be a head transplant minus the brain and eyes.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
I have an anecdote that may yellow that rosy picture of the Canadian medical system you are trying to paint.
Someone I know was living in Canada when they injured their back. The injury was declared to be "not life threatening." Because of this the wait time for the MRI was quite long. More than four months (16 weeks in your time.) During the time between the MRI and the injury this woman was in extreme pain and unable to move from a laying position.
She eventually found a way to get into a private MRI (at considerable cost). Once that was done her case proceeded quickly and with treatment she was back on her feet in less than 3 weeks.
So, in Canada "extreme pain and immobility" is not "life threatening" and therefore not worthy of a MRI in what I would call a "reasonable" time. Reasonable in the US is something like 3 hours. We are talking almost 3 orders of magnitude different. That's all, just a thousand times longer, no biggie.
Hey, I'm not saying that America is perfect, just that your picture of Canada has been discredited by Canadians that I know. It's kind of hard to take what you say as veritas when I have seen differnt first hand.
And as for the bankrupcy, maybe you haven't been close to someone who has experienced bankrupcy from medical expenses, but it can be liberating for them. Having those medical bills off of your credit profile and out of your economic portfolio of obligations allows many people who survive severe illness to purchase new cars and homes within less than a year of the bankrupcy. Individual bankrupcy in the US is very different from what you probably think it is.
"...pray they don't live in the US when they get ill"
I live in Houston. I meet people all the time from all over the world. Many of them are here in Houston to visit (or stay at) the Houston Medical Center. The reason? They want to live and we just happen to have one of the world's best cancer treatment centers here, Md. Anderson. As for me, (and many others from all ove the world apparently) I would rather go where I can get the best medical service available, regardless of price, when I have a serious illness. If I live through it I will happily file bankrupcy. You can't spend all that money you saved on medical expenses from the grave, you know.
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
You remind me of a fellow who was convinced that he was superior to everyone else due to hard work, dedication, and skill. His eyes were so tightly shut that, one day, when he reached around to pat himself on the back for his own superiority he ended up grabbing his pecker and masturbating until he shot himself in the eye. Can you believe it? He was so completely oblivious to the way things work that, when he thought he was congratulating himself, he was really just masturbating. I guess it worked for him, though, because he felt better for it and continued to walk around feeling superior to everyone else. He never noticed the big wad dripping from his face, though, because he was, as I've said, so completely oblivious to the entire world.
Come back when you have something real to say.
fast as fast can be. you'll never catch me.
I just got to say, that was the funniest response I've read in this thread. I hope you get modded up. (Too bad there isn't a positive modifier for "Flamebait") Good job. :)
"What do you think?" "I think 'What, do you think?!'"
http://health.discovery.com/tvlistings/series.jsp? series=109445&gid=0&channel=DHC
Description:
Witness groundbreaking surgery to remove the largest facial tumors ever recorded, giving a five-year-old boy a chance for a normal life. The tumors, caused by a rare congenital disorder called fibrous dysplasia, stem from abnormal bone growth.
Have fun: Join D.N.A. (National Dyslexics Association)
Ok. I have a question to ask, and I'll seriously consider your answer.
Is it "whackjob" or "wackjob"? Or should I just stick with kook?
Nutjob maybe?
How pathetic are you that you follow me from topic to topic and waste all your mod points at once modding me down?
I have a question for you. It will give you a chance to redeem yourself.
Does the federal deficit exist? Note: This is not the trade deficit.
1 point. Yes or no.
fast as fast can be. you'll never catch me.
The reason it's tearing itself apart is because the government for the past 13 years has used medicare ONLY as an issue to attack their opponents. They are not interested in solutions, because ALL solutions to the problem (other than throwing money at the problem, which is what has been done thus far - to no effect) would involve shifting towards somewhat privatized health care (they literally are not, at least in Saskatchewan, interested in so much as contracting out the housekeeping services because they have too much to lose by admitting that privatization of services is not *in and of itself* a bad thing, as long as the goal is still universal and GOOD, or at least acceptable, coverage).
They go on and on about the "fairness" of people jumping the queue, without regard to the fact that the people with the money to do so are already going out of country to get those services, and that Canadian doctors and nurses are leaving the country for jobs elsewhere. They don't realize that having a parallel private system is NOT a zero sum game, because at least some of those doctors and nurses would be attracted by the hospitals, and the money that used to be spent on out of country hospitals could remain in Canada's economy.
I think you really oversimplify things. (Disclaimer - I do IT for a hospital finance department)
Hospitals (IMHO) are definitely willing to work with patients to pay their bills - set up payment plans, negiotiate some kind of discount, etc. But hospitals have bills to pay too. Insurance companies screw the hospitals by rejecting claims for outrageous reasons, or by continually changing the rules you have to use to file claims for payment. And as the price of insurance goes up, more & more uninsured people are skipping regular clinic visits (that would keep them healthier) and start coming to hospitals for emergency care (since the hospitals can't turn them away).
So what's a hospital supposed to do? You go to the hospital for your broken leg, they fix it & send you a bill, and you offer them 10c on the dollar, "take it or leave it?" Hospitals are generous - but they need to get paid too. They'll give you a decent chance to pay your bill, and if you don't, they send you to the collection agency, who gets a cut of whatever they collect. Sure, the hospital may eventually write you off, but only when collections says they can't get any more money from you.
Canada's health care system is generally better than the US's, but 9/11 stretched a lot of some towns' resources. Dozens of jumbo jets had to land at little-used airstrips that were nowhere near a major city, so thousands of people had to spend several days in small villages that would normally have a population of a few hundred (sleeping on the floor in school gyms, airport hangers, etc.)
By most accounts, the locals did a lot to make the stranded travelers feel welcome. But some of them were very remote, so a three-day wait to see a doctor isn't implausible, particularly with all aircraft grounded.
You should have finished your post with stupid ebonic phrases like 'dogg' and 'flat schooled' instead of began it with them.
Where as you may have had an argument before, I doubt anyone will take you seriously now. Maybe you should revise your hip vocab not to copy something associated with the extremely uneducated.
I think bash.org said it right here:
<Sabboth> what the fuck does that mean in english? you should understand that having a day job precludes me from 'keeping it real' and as such, I lack a certain familiarity with the language of the 'streets' as it were.
It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
...and that's why health care should be a function of the state, paid for by taxes, "free" for everyone.
But of course in the US that would be called socialism and therefore bad.
We don't believe in radical loony monotheistic religions from the middle east -- we're Christians.
Does your face hurt?
No, why?
It's killin' me.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
For those who don't know the story, here is a link that you may find inspiring: http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/d/deltaflight 15.htm
Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
They on the other hand, remember themselves as something different than what they look like after the operation, thereby the change of face would make them feel that they have lost some of their identity.
Your argument doesn't make any sense to me. They don't have the option of a complete restoration of the original face, and that's the only option that would be free of psychological complications. Remember that they are choosing between:
1) a vastly different "face", covered in scar tissue and missing large pieces, or
2) a somewhat different face, with some scar tissue and different freckles, etc., but likely much more recognizable as the original person due to the constant underlying bone structure. And certainly much more recognizable as a normal human face.
Are you seriously saying (1) is a better option? That you'd be more horrified when you woke up every morning with slightly differently-shaped lips, as opposed to waking up with no lips at all?
I would imagine that for now, especially, candidates will be only people who have already tried other reconstructive options, and found them totally unacceptable, and who have had time to think about the decision.
But even 10 years down the line, I don't think this kind of surgery is an option right after a serious face injury.
With transplants of donated skin, it's particularly difficult to stop rejection, and so recipients are going to have to deal with hardcore immunosuppression drugs. But if you have a large external wound, shutting down your immune system isn't the greatest idea.
So if you're a serious burn victim, you would probably have to wait for quite a while -- i.e., it wouldn't actually help to replace destroyed skin with foreign tissue immediately, because that means you'd have to shut down the body's immune system right when it's at its most vulnerable to infection because of those wounds.
Seems like common sense to me... any doctors in the house want to clarify?
Perhaps true. However, every comparative study done on healthcare puts Canada's healthcare as equal to or better than that found in the US, despite the US spending a much larger fraction of its total GDP (13.6% vs. 9.5%).
(Before you complain about the link sites, the first study was done by the World Health Organization, the second by Johns Hopkins, the third by an author formerly from the conservative Fraser Institute. And before anyone complains that this is a Canada-vs-US thing, read especially the first study - most countries in Western Europe get better healthcare results for less money than the US, and many are better that way than Canada.)
The reason for this is, according to studies, wasteful bureaucracy in the US system. According to those who have analyzed the systems, this may be one place where a government program is actually more efficient than a collection of private programs. (The mind boggles, I know...)
In other words - ignore most of the data, and you can get any answer you're looking for. Study all of the data, and you'll find you're demonstrably wrong.
I am not Canadian, and this is not to defend their healthcare system, but come on.
MRI machines are not "THAT" plentyful, it takes over an hour to do a scan, and generaly they are well booked for this expensive scan.
In a critical or life threatening situation, sure an ER or physician may find a way to get you scanned more quickly. My girlfreind freaked out and moved (ashthma cough) during the last few minutes of the hour long scan.. This equals worthles scan.. next opening for rescan was 2 weeks.
waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
When I read the story to my co-worker he replied: "So she got the dog's face?" We both agreed that'd be a bitch.
Blog via SMS text messaging
What the hell kind of dog attacks someone so badly that they lose their lips and nose? I had a friend in high school who was attacked by one of the family Dobermans because she came over the fence late at night. It tore up her nose a good deal and she needed some plastic surgery to correct the damage. But in the end she wound up looking totally normal without needing a face transplant. This must have been some monstrous dog to actually beat out a Doberman. I'm just asking because I find this really strange.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
Why is this a troll? Have the moderators lost their minds?
And they punish the dog that bit her by putting her mawled face on the dog.
Table-ized A.I.
Maybe you should revise your hip vocab not to copy something associated with the extremely uneducated.
Thanks for simultaneously pigeon-holing not only myself, but an entire culture, Mr. Ethnocentric Douchebag! Quite to the contrary of your belief, you've actually only depreciated the value of your own insipid opinion.
I, too, believe that bash.org said it best:
i'm going to become rich and famous after i invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet
--- What
Then why is it usually better for less money than the US version?
(Links to multiple comprehensive studies demonstrating this in a previous post.)
I don't think it makes me a racist to consider people who purposely learn how to not speak English properly. I guess I just hit a nerve.
My roommate is black (with his white wife) and I have black co-workers and get along amazingly well with all of them, just like anyone else. Skin colour has nothing to do with how superior a person is, but purposefully dumbing yourself down really doesn't speak to me that an intelligent person is behind the message.
It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.