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Bounty For Booting XP on the Intel iMac
An anonymous reader writes "The race is on. You can try to get the bounty for booting Windows XP on iMac. At this moment there is $2773 waiting for the winner. However several people have brickified their iMacs when playing with EFI." I imagine those tech support calls are hysterical ;)
From TFA:Here's a suggestion for a charity...how about a charity for all the poor saps who've hosed their iMacs trying this stunt? ^_^
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
Who would want to boot Windows XP normally?
Not to be too picky, but the correct word, I believe, is "bricked". Although whether there's an actual dictionary definiton of the word in this context I do not know.
"The dew has clearly fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning"
I would prefer to see booting osx86 on a non intel mac then ruining a perfectly good mac with xp.
[...]However several people have brickified their iMacs when playing with EFI.
;-)
Aha, but don't worry, just ask these nice people to add bricks to their existing set of architectures
No, it shouldn't. You apparently either have no idea what BartPE is, or ou completely failed to even read the article summary.
BartPE is simply a custom version of XP that can boot from removable media. The EFI rom on the MacTel machines seems to forbid booting an El Torito volume.
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
What I want is to boot MacOS on my PC. How about a bounty for that?
Hell yes.
There's a bunch of x86 machines here ready to receive...
in a twist of irony. Or the EFF.
for Apple's Windows based Mac later this year.
Short answer: Because you can.
Obligatory Soundbite Catchphrase
Therefore getiing XP to boot natively won't happen. There is still a chance at booting Windows Vista though, as it supports EFI. The only thing to overcome is the ACPI requirement that Vista has. The intel chip and mobo inside the iMacs stupport ACPI, but of course it has been removed from Apple's version of EFI. Find a way to get ACPI support onto the Mactel's EFI, and you should be able to have a dual boot config with Windows Vista.
From Dave Schroeder, posted to http://nak.journalspace.com/?cmd=displaycomments&d cid=407&entryid=407
By following these steps, the iMacs that had difficulty with certain EFI modules appear to have been restored to a functioning state:
1. Disconnect the internal hard disk
2. Disconnect the iMac from AC power
3. Plug in AC while holding the power button
4. Power up the iMac and zap NVRAM (cmd-opt-P-R)
The hard disk can be reformatted and the operating system restored.
If I could have a dual core machine with a really nice graphics card, and the machine was also cool, quiet, and attractive for $1300, and I could boot any OS I wanted on it (OS X, Linux, XP), I think I don't qualify as perverse. The iMac is a compact and powerful machine, and there's nothing available like it at the moment. Furthermore, give me the choice between carrying around two laptops or one (especially for developers or on-site technicians), can you possibly guess which one would be less expensive?
So, please, just drop this joke. It's been told a million times. If you don't have anything useful to say, just save your breath.
So that you can run games produced by brain-dead companies (e.g. Half-Life [2]), but still use Mac OS for everything else?
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I've always heard that I would "need" Windows for something or other. In my business it seemed prudent to own/install a copy of Software Windows and so a bought a succession of versions starting in the early 90s.
In more than 10 years of having a copy of Windows, I've needed it all of 3 times (using content on 2 MS-only CD-ROMs and some MS-Access work). Now I don't even need the emulator -- I bought a Pentium-III laptop at a garage sale for $10. It's sat unused now for 3 years.
I can understand the "because its there challenge," and I suppose some people really need to play PC-only games (I don't), but otherwise putting Windows on a Mac seems like a waste of good hardware.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Does the "Core Duo" processor include the Vaderpool virtualization extensions.
And if Xen is able to use Vanderpool to transparently support WindowsXP/2003 then, would using Xen be the best way to go, with out having to deal with the Boot issue.
no sig yet
1.Walk it into any Apple store or Apple authorized repair shop.
2. Tell them your mac stopped working.
3. When they ask you for the symptoms, tell them it showed a spining ball in many colors, like a rainbow. Then it beeped. Then it told you to reboot in many languages.
4. When you rebooted it, it refused to power up.
5. The proper answer to any probing questions is "uh, I don't know."
Under any circumstances are you to give the impression that you know more about macs than the guy taking your repair order. If the contents of the drive are an issue, take the drive out, connect it to another machine and delete the partitions. Check out the "user installable parts" document for your mac, it will tell you the exact procedure for pulling a drive without voiding the warranty. For the first generation iMac G5 it even tells you the color of the 3 screws that you need to remove, I bet that has not changed with the Intel version.
Pedro
----
The Insomniac Coder
I just got a message from a friend of mine saying I have been /.ed . Now my life is complete
--------- I have no signature
... running OSX and XP simultaneously? Those new Macs have dual-core for a reason ya know.
Yeah right. Sounds more like a troll hoping to trick people into frying their Macs.
compile WINE on MAC. done!!!!
However several people have brickified their iMacs when playing with EFI. I imagine those tech support calls...
.... minutes. Have a great day, sir.
UserX: Hi, is this Apple tech support?
Tech Support Operator 213453098: Yes, how can I help you?
UserX: Well, I was trying to win a contest by booting Windows XP on my iMac and then totally brickified it.
Tech Support Operator 213453098: Oh that's too bad, can you please start from the beginning?
UserX: Okay, I had XP copied to a disc, I put it in the iMac and fiddled with the EFI a bit to boot XP and all of a sudden I had a screen with a bunch of letters and numbers on it. I tried to hardboot it and get back OSX, but it failed...so I brickified it.
Tech Support Operator 213453098: So you corrupted your iMac to the point will it will not boot at all?
UserX: No, I got so mad I just threw a brick at it - now it's just a pile of sparking wires and smoking plastic.
Tech Support Operator 213453098: Please hold, let me transfer you to our anger management department. You estimated wait time is... thirty-five
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
I thought the whole point of getting OS X to Intel hardware was to propogate OS X? Why are we so concerned about getting the iMac to run Windows?
Seriously, if you "brickify" your iMac while trying to Windoze-it, good... I laugh at you from a far... you deserve to own a $1300 paperweight.
Right, because no one else has other software needs than yours.
Installing and booting OSX on PCs.
I expect to receive my rightfully earned $2500 by midnight.
You can already boot XP on your Intel Mac.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Turn your argument around. Nobody really "needs" a Mac in the first place. We could get everything we need to get done on a standard Windows PC, but instead we buy Macintoshes because we *want* to, not because we need to.
Surely you will admit that there are some very popular Windows packages that have not been ported to the Mac. As well about a million inhouse and vertical software packages designed for Windows. A lot of people in the Mac community see this as something that would be legitimately useful to them, and not just "because it's there". They're doing this because they think it would add value to their Mac system.
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
Now that macs use an intel chipset and the backend is BSD based, can't one just use wine to run their MS apps? Just like in freebsd/linux/unix? When I get my MacBook that is one of the first things I will be taking for a spin.
Evolution or ID?
I'm sure that ole Bill and Steve would like to see it boot normally, AT LEAST ONCE since its been coded.
if I claimed I was emperor just because some watery tart lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!
I've always heard that I would "love" Macs for some reason or another. In my business it seemed prudent to own a Mac and so bought one in the late 90s.
In almost 10 years of having a Mac, I've never needed it. Now I don't even use it. I picked up a Mac laptop off eBay a few years ago for $150. It's sat unused--except for very occasional ventures into Macland to answer a customer's question--ever since.
OSX is a nifty OS and all, but even with the hefty G5s I supported at my last job I've never been so impressed by a Mac that I wanted to shelf my Windows system for it. The only Macs with performance on par with my $1,500 computer cost $3,000 and up, the OS isn't THAT impressive compared to Windows, and options are limited.
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
In my business
what business?
Lots of good software in a lot of fields, like engineering (the one I can cite examples off the top of my head), has no mac replacement.
1) domU instances don't get access to the graphics hardware. If you want hardware video acceleration, virtualization is currently not an option. There's a chance that you can do it in a case where your system has multiple video cards, but so far there is no solution for concurrent access to the same video card.
2) dom0 instances (generally considered the "host") OS actually run under Xen too. Apparently (according to the Xen mailing lists) dom0 OSes actually need more modifications than domUs. Thus, it may not be possible to use OSX as a dom0.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I actually first thought the topic was "Get booty for bounting XP..." Now there's a challenge for nerds!
Even for a reward, it seems ludicrous that anyone with a new Mac-Intel would want to install Microsoft Windows. This only goes to show that Microsoft Windows users (generally) do not have a clue as to really superior and great software. Somehow I feel they think that Windows will work better and be less buggy if running on MAC machines - without consideration that the answer lies in the OS - Unix-based.
Wendell
...you insensitive clod!
With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
1 Disconnect the iMac from AC power 2 Disconnect the internal hard disk 3. Plug in AC while holding the power button 4. Power up the iMac and zap NVRAM (cmd-opt-P-R) The hard disk can be reformatted and the operating system restored. The instructions to UNBRICK yourself are slightly more complicated.
the more they over-think the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the pipe
Exercise your commercial rights and ask for a complete refund for this crippleware with undocumented features like TPM and EFI crc checking hint hint (llamas for not listening) while you can. I've worked with engineers at IBM for boot sequence problems while employed by them, and understand a fair bit about what happens during a boot sequence. This doesn't make me a name dropping hack, it means that I'm actually approaching this problem with some low level understanding of the hardware as it lights up. As I've stated earlier, I believe that the TPM unit checks the EFI to ensure it's Apple standard EFI (/. ers would all understand this) and then opens the system devices up based on a correct check. It seems to me the failure and 'non-bootable' status only comes after actually altering the EFI. I guess we're all /. ing and not connect the . ing.
rent a clue day coming soon to a planet near you!
if I claimed I was emperor just because some watery tart lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!
Change "forbid booting" to "not have support for". Apple has not done any work to support booting, that means they don't include things that they don't need, but might be needed for Windows. they are not hindering you from booting Windows, just not helping you either.
$1337. And have them write the check entirely in Leetspeak.
There are plenty of apps out there that only run on Windows. You may not use any of them, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.
As a user of a combination of PC, Mac and Linux for my 'home' development stuff, the most obvious app that has kept me doing a fair amount of the work on Windows is the EMS Postgresql Manager. Sure there are Mac/Linux apps for developing on Postgresql databases, but in my view there's none that even remotely come close for user friendliness. And I'm not going to use clunky apps to do my work simply to avoid using Windows.
So what about booting Linux and start VMWare directly after Linux boots?
Support Eachother, Copy Dutch Property!
It is not a waste of hardware. I tire of this damn complex some mac-heads have. OS/X isn't the end all of operating systems.
There are those of us who would like to have a computer that can boot all the operating systems. As it stands now the most limited as to where it can boot will be the OS/X system. Eventually someone will get it to boot on a PC but then your forever stuck trying to get drivers.
So the best solution is to get Windows on the Mac. It will be the most difficult. Then probably one of the many linux variations.
Now for me I can buy a macbook, have windows loaded, and be able to vpn/5250/3270 in to work with a supported platform. I am sure many others are wanting to splurge but need some sensibility in our purchase. I need a new laptop, I don't need a new "OS/X" only machine. I don't want to be trapped into one vendor for just an OS.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
5. Profit
Probably this bounty for Windows XP on the Intel Mac is prompted in a reaction to Linux on the Intel Mac. Can't have the press paying attention to that, now can we?
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
A bounty for booty ye say?
ARRRRRRRRRRR!
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Frankly, booting Linux on one of these is a whole lot more important to me than booting Windows.
Has anyone gotten Linux booting on one of those things yet? I expect it'd be a lot easier, and being able to dual boot between Linux and OSX is a lot more interesting to me than being able to dual boot between OSX and Windows. Maybe not interesting to anyone else, but certainly to me.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Maybe they want to play games on occasion, but want the OSX experience the rest of the time. I know a LOT of people in that boat.
I have several devices and applications which only support Internet Explorer 6 as a web client.
While a majority of the functionality is there when I connect with Firefox or Safari, I cannot complete all the tasks I need to get the job done. In addition, the vendor typically refuses to provide me with any support unless I'm using IE6 on a Windows computer (no virtual pc, either).
Once I upgrade to a Windows-friendly Mac, I can get rid of that extra case under my desk. Also, with the possibility of multiple concurrent OSes running in their own virutal hardware partitions, I can run a test environment with a server and a client on the same machine.
Now I can get rid of three CPUs under my desk, along with the KVM switch and the Ethernet hub.
Never ask for directions from a two-headed tourist! -Big Bird
How about get Linux running on it, and then run Windows under VMWare?
If we are now using the word "bricked" to mean "turned a piece of HW into a useless brick", it is now a word. Languages evolve (except French) and this is a prime example of that evolution.
you've got it the wrong way round
which is totally what she said
Is that anything like brickifying an iMac? Don't want the iMac sucking mud.
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
Because I'm guessing that OSX, even the Intel version, has minimal to no support for most non-Apple hardware. Which is probably a big part of WHY there's no OSX for standard PCs, and why OSX has such a rep for reliability - they have a very limited set of hardware they can focus on.
Why would you emulate an Intel on an Intel?
Or were you trying to be funny?
Duh...
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Is that one of those Clint Eastwood 'dead or alive' bounties?
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
Why is dual booting better than running both at the same time? This would not be a emulated environment but a virtualized one. There is no need to emulate the Intel chip. I am looking forward to VMWare jumping on the Intel Macs.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Running an OS from the Evil Empire on a Cultist piece of equipment! Wow, truly the odd couple!
You said it: games. If I can play the next Windows version of Elder Scrolls or GTA on my iMac, I don't need a PC anymore. Games games games! I could care less about running IE7 or MS Project.
If you can so easily brickify your Mac into a difficult-to-impossible to recover state, then the Mac is poorly designed and needs improvement.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
- there is no legal way to do it (there is also currently no way to buy a standalone copy of Mac OS X for Intel, even if you choose to ignore the license agreement)
- the Mac OS X license agreement specifically states that Mac OS X can only be installed on a single Apple-branded computer
However,
- the Windows license agreement allows for this
- it is legal to purchase a license for Windows and use it on any machine desired, including an Intel-based iMac
Microsoft is a software company. Apple is a hardware company.
Let's see....with 3 years of depreciation should make that laptop worth about $5---interested in selling?
This is a very good idea. Clearly, there are not enough machines that run Windows XP right now; any effort to increase its use is certainly for the best.
http://www.talknerdy.org
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I bet that Microsoft will not patch XP to work with EFI. We all know that Vista will support EFI, so MS will want to make people get Vista to run on the x86 Macs instead. MSFT will make money on two fronts: they will sell more copies of Vista and not have to spend money to patch XP.
Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
You should probably change your reading preferences to "threaded" or "nested" so you have a clue as to what he was replying to.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
actually I do but forgot that his post had a parent. Doh >_ it was the way he asked to claim the bounty without being promised one
which is totally what she said
Too bad that's for installing the leaked prerelease 10.4.3 beta, instead of a system that actually has a good chance of being livable.
Fore years, /* covered all the weird gadgets that people got *LINUX* to run on. Now, suddenly, everyone at /* is concerned about whether XP can run on EFI? What the hell? Did Microsoft suddenly buy a lot of OSTG stock or something? Let's get back to whether Linux supports it or not - who gives a flying &$(#( about whether Microsoft can run on it!
I tried this on my new intel mac, and it turned it into a ZEOS 486/DX2 66. Can I get a replacement?
I thought the whole point of getting OS X to Intel hardware was to propogate OS X?
Assuming that by 'propogate' you mean sell OS.X to run on generic PC's from bulk vendors like DELL,
The short answer is: NO
The long answer is: The move to Intel was done to enable Apple to market competitive, powerful, well designed and highly compact laptops. They still won't tolerate OS.X being run on non Apple computers.
Why are we so concerned about getting the iMac to run Windows?
So we can dual boot it with OS.X and use Windows to get maximum performance and stability out of Windows only PC games. Why else?????
Seriously, if you "brickify" your iMac while trying to Windoze-it, good... I laugh at you from a far... you deserve to own a $1300 paperweight.
You are new to this whole Nerd thing aren't you? The whole point of being a Nerd is to try to do tings to see if they can be done. Nerds never have, do not now and never will need a reason to do nerdy things and the same goes for stopping to think about the consequences. If we did stop to think about what we are doing so many of mankind's greatest discoveries and achievements would never have happened, the Manhattan project for example would never have been sucessfully concluded.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
If you do webdesign, you need to check your pages in Explorer.
If you do application software, and your users are on windows.
If you do embedded software, and the dev kits are windows only.
If you do electrical design, you will probably need to run OrCAD.
If you do drafting, you will probably need to run AutoCAD.
If you teach and your school requires a specific application for grades.
Since MS Office was ported to the Mac, most business people will probably be able to get by without using windows. For graphics work, all the professional tools are also on the Mac, so they can get by just fine as well. There are also many good audio tools as well, although most professionals use a mix of Mac and Windows software (plus that one that boots up without a seprate OS).
However for many people, they really don't have that option. Even if there are replacements apps on the Mac that are as good or better than the windows based industry standards, compatibility with others pretty much forces you to have a copy around.
Well now I just feel silly Eric. Thank you for pointing this out, amongst your myriad other posts for today and indeed all of January. And a very big thank-you for using that choice pissing Slashdot phrase - 'RTFA'. Also, yes, I have no doubt that Captain Picard would miss Data, only real question is, would anyone miss you on Slashdot, or indeed out there in the corporeal world?
Pleasure to make your acquaintance.
Regards,
Unski.
I have several devices and applications which only support Internet Explorer 6 as a web client.
While a majority of the functionality is there when I connect with Firefox or Safari, I cannot complete all the tasks I need to get the job done. In addition, the vendor typically refuses to provide me with any support unless I'm using IE6 on a Windows computer (no virtual pc, either).
I have the same problem. I still don't understand why somebody would bother to create a webapp that will only function properly on IE6 on Windows? I have seen several such monstrosities and they completely defeat the idea of a well designed webapp which, for me at least, has always been complete independence of browser type and the undrelying OS.
Once I upgrade to a Windows-friendly Mac, I can get rid of that extra case under my desk. Also, with the possibility of multiple concurrent OSes running in their own virutal hardware partitions, I can run a test environment with a server and a client on the same machine.
Now I can get rid of three CPUs under my desk, along with the KVM switch and the Ethernet hub.
I hear you brother.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
Good luck getting XP to boot if the firmware is a true EFI (legacy-free) implementation. If it has a BIOS-compatibility layer (I forget exactly what it's called) - which is basically just a BIOS plunked into the firmware so it can support the legacy BIOS interrupts, you may be in luck. Otherwise you'll have to do some pretty major hacking of the firmware OS interface.
EFI isn't the only problem for the new Macs to run Windows. I wrote an article that looks at a range of problems: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/Jan06.IntelMacsWin1. html
Why would I want to buy an overpriced piece of hardware to try and boot XP on? I certainly don't want to run Next OS anyway. I'm surprised it even supports color if Steve Jobs was involved.
Lame, they finally admit their hardware is junk and still charge a premimum to the Mac zealots when they go to an industry standard platform.
WOW! I can boot XP on a $299 PC why bother with an Intel iMac.
When I was working on the ia64 port of linux back in 2000, I bricked a prototype 'Lion' quad ia64 server with a small, seemingly harmless EFI application that happened to hit a bug in the (still beta) EFI firmware for the machine. It was a $40,000 fix. Oops.
:)
iMacs are small potatos.
We could get everything we need to get done on a standard Windows PC, but instead we buy Macintoshes because we *want* to, not because we need to.
I have tried hard to do this, using Interix to give me as close as you can get to a real UNIX environment on Windows, but I was still unable to get a real UNIX networking environment even by restricting myself to POSIX. The software I use wouldn't run, and would require more work than I have time for to port to Windows... even UNIX-under-Windows. I pretty much had to have a UNIX box for real work and a Windows box for games (at home) or pointy-haired-management software (at work).
When I was able to switch to a Mac running a real UNIX with a real supported commercial GUI and applications, I could quit having to use two computers at home. Still got two at work, because of pointy-haired-management software that doesn't run on OS X, but it's so close...
I'd rather run XP under virtualisation, than boot to it, though.
There is no reason why shifting into reverse at 80 MPH should completely brickify a car. Result in speed loss? Yeah. Mean you have to start the engine again? That's fine. But render a car utterly incapable of being restored to a usable state by the user? Absolutely not.
When in reverse, the differential and layshaft spin in opposite directions relative to each other than in normal driving because reverse has a small idler gear not present on the other gears which reverses the direction of motion. If you try to shift into reverse on a car already revved up and/or in motion, the gears will be spinning the wrong way and the dog teeth on them unable to engage. Rather than bricking your car or causing the transmission to explode, you get a horrible grinding noise and stay in neutral.
I'm sure you are right, but I'd like to see xp boot. I have a pc now for gaming and .net programming (web apps). If I could consolidate down to one machine, it woudl be quite nice. Of course vista will do .net, but i have a bad feeling about games running. I mean they ditched the registry, pulled open gl out, etc. I figure i have to dual boot either way to play my games so it might as well be OSX.
MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
Dear God, forgive me, I can't help myself...
customer: I wish to complain about this iMac what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.
Apple: Oh yes, the, uh, the Intel iMac...What's,uh...What's wrong with it?
customer: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. It's dead, that's what's wrong with it!
Apple: No, no, it's, uh... it's resting.
customer: Look, matey, I know a dead computer when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.
Apple: No no, it's not dead, it's resting! Remarkable computer, the Intel Macintosh, idd'nit? Beautiful GUI!
customer: The GUI don't enter into it. It's brickified.
Apple: Nononono, resting!
customer: Alright, then, if it's resting, I'll boot it up! (shouts) HELLO, COMPUTER! (presses power button) Hello, computer, I've got some nice software for you...
Apple: There! It came on!
customer: No, it didn't! Do you see anything on that screen?
Apple: Well...
customer: (picks up mouse and bangs repeatedly on the desk. Throws it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor.) Now that's what I call brickefied. Bricked. Embrickened. Pick one.
Apple: No, no... it's just stunned.STUNNED?? It's not stunned! It's passed on! This iMac is no more! It has ceased to be! It's kicked the bit bucket! It's duo core processor is now history! THIS IS AN EX-COMPUTER!
Apple: Well, I guess I'd better replace it, then. (looks about) Sorry, sir, we're right out of Intel iMacs.
customer: I see. I get the picture.
Apple: We've got this nice Windows machine, though...
"Hey, the third matrix movie would have been good except for the plot,story, and acting." --AC
a little digging finds treasures... https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/groups/tpm/T PM_1_2_Changes_final.pdf
this means in short that the efi has been signed by apple and the only one that they will allow (currently) to boot their hardware.
perhaps they need to get their legal team working on a disclaimer of liability for unsupported platforms and loosen their shorts a bit? I can't foresee anyone actually suing apple because windows crashes! that would be akin to suing ford because your chrysler spontaneously combusted.
easy steve et all, we like the work, lets keep it going :D
c.
-Disclaimer: the statements made here are entirely suppositional based on personal experiences with corporate mentality, similarities to any real product incidents is entirely coincidental and statements made herein do not represent an endorsement or criticism of any persons, products or companies. comments distributed under creative commons license
dot the i's and cross the tees
if I claimed I was emperor just because some watery tart lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!
If cars were enough like computers to make that kind of analogy meaningful, you'd be able to buy a car at Walmart for about fifty bucks, it'd go Mach 3 at ground level and be capable of reaching any point in sublunar space on a cupful of gas. And every few days it would just stop working for no reason, sometimes to the accompaniment of gouts of livid flames from the engine compartment, and occasionally fall apart and need to be rebuilt from scratch... and people would consider that normal.
But since they're not, you get zero points and have to leave the island.
Wann hast du deine iMac emgebricken
My German is a bit rusty, I am not a native speaker, but I think that should be:
Du Arschloch ! Hast du meinen iMac Verziegelt?
If this post has offended your sentiments please accept my (complete lack of an) apology.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
Back in the day, if we "needed" software, we wrote it,
and forced everyone to use it, on vt100 terminals, and LIKED IT !
old bios module can be supported under EFI too. Like i said i am not blameing them for not supporting it, i am blaming them for telling people they did go out of their way to prevent running windows
Wouldn't it be fairly easy to port VMWare to OS X x86? Then running XP would be much less complicated...
This doesn't look like the retail version of OSX?
Legacy BIOS support in EFI is completely optional.
Apple doesn't need BIOS to boot Mac OS, so they simply did not add the extra software needed for it., the same with UDF and El Torito support. They are not going out of there way to keep Windows from booting on a Mac, but they also aren't doing any extra work to help people boot Windows. Why should they?
As I predicted, I was instantly moderated a troll for that. I will try to be more sensitible in my reasoning: Will somebody please inform me why it is a good thing to install Windows on a computer running Mac OS X? And no, "Because you can" is not a valid argument. You can wear a paper bag over your head for a week, but it will only make you look ridiculous.
>Of course it is, windows would be a lot more stable too if you could only buy your machine from Microsoft.
It might just come true.
my password really is 'stinkypants'
Games, for one.. Options are nice..
...a perfectly cromulent word.
This is a really great story. Here is my example Apple tech support call:
...Ok (gives name and telephone number)
Apple: Hello, Apple Tech Support this is iMac, how can I help you?
Nerd: My new iMac Core Duo won't boot up.
Apple: Ok, could I get your name and telephone number?
Nerd:
Apple: Hmmm....
Nerd: What?
Apple: Have you called about problems with this computer before?
Nerd: Yes. It's been very buggy.
Apple: I'm showing 10 other tech support calls and 10 replacement iMac's sent to you.
Nerd: Yeah, like I said they are really buggy machines.
Apple: You know what? Do I look stupid? DO YOU THINK WE WEREN'T TOLD THIS WOULD HAPPEN?
Nerd: Well I just....
Apple: (interrupts) Stop messing with the EFI!!!
Nerd: But I WANT to boot Windows!! How else am I supposed to do it?
Apple: I think we need to start seeing other people.
Nerd: What... WHY?
Apple: I need some space, and I feel like you can never be honest with me.
Nerd: I'm honest with you most of the time....
Apple: It's over guy, get a new girlfrield. Maybe you can go back to Dell, I hear she's available.
Nerd: But iMac you are so sexxxy!! You're breaking my heart!
Apple: No, you are literally breaking mine. My motherboard > you. (click)
(Nerd goes into corner, cries, and calls Dell.)
Dell: Hello you have reached Dell Tech Support.
Nerd: My iMac just dumped me, I need a friend....
About 65 people asked this question already. It's in that discussion up above. People gave the EXACT SAME answers in almost every case.
I am not going to answer you. I am going to simply ask WHAT IN THE LOVE OF FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOUR BROKEN FUCKING BRAIN?
The approach I would take would be to boot a Linux that hosts a variation of the Linux BIOS and then try to use that to boot WinXP.
Now I'm not suggesting that this is what is actually happening, but it would make a great idea for a scam. All you have to do is solve some "hot" technical issue e.g. running WinXP on an Intel Mac and then post a heartfelt plea on the internet for somebody to do the same thing, putting up some money and adding that other people are free to donate their money to get the answer too.
Wait a bit until you have the donations roling in nicely and then use your alternative e-mail account to submit the solution. You get to keep all the donations. In the event that somebody else manages to solve the problem, some e-mail header and log fakery will make it look ike your entry just got in first.
I'd like to reiterate that I have no grounds whatsoever to supose that this is what is actually going on here, I'm sure it's genuine, if only because I don't think it'll be technically feasible to get WinXP to dual boot with OS X on a Mac.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
Microsoft releases Windows XP, Macintosh Edition or Virtual PC for Intel Macs. You really need to up the bounty. I know I would go through at least 2 iMacs before I figure out how to boot XP. 2800-2400= 400 which is not worth it.
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
Why do it? it a lot like the subject line.
The 64-bit version of Win XP and Win 2003 support EFI (but Core Duos are 32 bit). Vista is expected to support EFI too. There is no technical reason that prevents Microsoft from modifying the normal XP to support it too. It just doesn't make sense for them to invest in that (relatively very small) effort since Vista is right around the corner (so to speak).
Apple said that they wouldn't do anything to impede Windows (or any other OS for that matter) from running on Intel Macs. They also said that they weren't going to support them officially anyway, and thus they didn't commit to include obsolete technology to make things easier for them.
I can guarantee you that Linux will boot on these Macs in a matter of weeks (well, some developers may be waiting for their MacBooks, so it may be a couple of weeks on top of that). NetBSD will be running soon after, and maybe FreeBSD also. And Windows in a virtualized machine will be running at almost-native speeds before July (but of course that doesn't count as booting the OS).
I advise you mind your language.
I think i just peed my pants! Is a guy named KUNT telling someone to watch thier language?
I'm no expert, but I'm guessing that there will be plenty of other x86 OEMs who will make a Core Duo based system using the same chipset. Unlike Apple, they'll need to support the currently shipping version of XP, and therefore, will have to create the BIOS compatibility module for their machines. Because the Intel Mac is mostly standard Intel design, I'd take that compat module from a different machine and somehow shoehorn it into the Mac. Then, it should be just a matter of installing XP on it as you would with the other OEM's machine.
:)
If anyone uses this method, please give me a cut of the prize.
-- "This world is a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel."
The registry isn't ditched, nor is full-screen OpenGL. Windowed OpenGL is a quite sad story.
Why not build a one of the open source bios kernels so that it looks like the mach_kernel and have it then boot something else like Windows, Lilo or Grub?
Well, here's the problem. The Mac OS, and in fact the entire Apple experience, is intuitive for a certain kind of person. Artists, fashion mavens, scientists, and other creative personalities can sit down with a MacBook Pro running the latest dot-update of Tiger and comprehend its sensitive, tasteful aesthetic. It's a rare instinct, this appreciation for beauty and truth; unimaginative, dogma-bound drones haven't a prayer.
In summary, unattractive squares should stick to Linux and Windows.
Macs are for different thinkers.
Actually, to those people who think Apple is using TPM/Trusted Computing to actively *prevent* anything other than Mac OS X from booting on the Intel iMacs, you are categorically, one hundred percent wrong.
Apple has done NOTHING to prevent other OSes from booting, as long as there are booters that support Apple's EFI implementation.
There will be Linux distributions, BSD distributions, and Darwin distributions that will definitely run on Intel-based iMacs once EFI (and Apple's EFI implementation specifically) is properly supported in their bootloaders. And it will be.
Apple is doing NOTHING to actively prevent (or allow) the booting of alternate operating systems, period. Including Windows.
Now, you might say, accurately, that Apple is doing nothing to help, either. But it has no need for legacy BIOS, and EFI is the firmware of the (foreseeable) future on PC platforms as well. It's just that Apple is really on the cutting edge here, and is, again, the first manufacturer to deploy a technology in a widespread, mainstream way. In this case, it's EFI.
Can a novice or recreational user easily get it to boot other OSes without some further development of, e.g., bootloaders? No. But that will happen, and it's only a matter of time.
I just wanted to clarify this point, because Apple is certainly not going to disallow Linux, *BSD, Darwin, OpenDarwin and other UNIX variants from booting on Intel-based Macs, and it's not doing anything specific to prevent Windows from booting, either. It's also not doing anything specific - indeed, anything at all - to SUPPORT Windows booting on these machines.
Apple knows full well that people will be running Windows in virtualization on these things, and that will be *far* more useful to *far* more people than dual booting, and it's certainly not going to be stopping that, so why would they stop people from booting Windows and only Windows natively? Think for a second, people.
Now, the REVERSE is true, however: Apple IS using TPM to tie Mac OS X to Apple hardware. But it is NOT using TPM to *prevent* other OSes from being run on Apple hardware.
Maybe the iMacs were brickified because they succesfully booted windows :)
im still trying to boot into windows xp on my pc!
fact: microsoft > linux
Why to boot Windows on a Mac? Because all of the professional software packages that many of us technically-inclined folks use run ONLY under Windows (schematic capture, PCB layout, VHDL development, etc), and unless/until I can run these on a Mac I will not be buying a Mac.
'... You can wear a paper bag over your head for a week, but it will only make you look ridiculous.'
Ridiculous? Maybe. But in BushWorld, it's the best way to enjoy some private space, completely unfettered by face scanning cameras and extremely short range microphone surveillance.
We just donated $50 we're hoping to move our pc's to the Intel Mac, and if we can get XP to boot on these, even better. Ours is the link with http://www.zangani.com/
So, "8 million readers" have read this post and the amount is under $5K. ,dave
Pathetic.
If everyone coughed up $10, the total would be way more than a lousy $5K.
Dave Barnes 9 breweries within walking distance of my house
I wouldnt be surprised if someone writes a bootloader of some kind that is compatible with the new macs. Basicly, the macs would load said bootloader and then that could be used to call the normal windows bootloader.
What utter tripe. Apple doesn't support end-users flashing the BIOS, unless they're using an Apple-supplied firmware updater. If you break it, it's your own damned fault.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I use Mac OSX, Windows and Linux everyday -- I have to support Mac and Windows users everyday at my job and I sure as hell would be happier if I could have both OSes on one computer that I could take with me without all the KVM bullshit,emulators or a multitude machines.
,better machines, or better ways of doing things, but always manage to "fuck it up" because of either arrogance of Macintosh users or Apple's own "I want to controll everything attitude".
Apple has had a many chances since 1978-79 to take over the market with either better interfaces
Why not help the community by helping Apple embrace more openess; please make it easier to install what we want, when we want, on our computers. Anything else is just crap. TPM, EFI with no backward compatibility modes, shame on Apple.
-Ron
Aimed, one presumes, at the one person on slashdot with a sense of humor.
(No, not me.)
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
Perhaps, and this is just a guess, the universe is not entirely composed of people like you?
Get over yourself.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
It's my real name, you insensitive clod. Kunt, Clark Kunt.
If the lack of a bios is the problem ... how about performing the equivalent of loadlin by loading windows from osx/darwin letting it take care of dealing with the initialisation of the hardware? A program could "emulate" gathering the information a bios would supply and pass that to windows? I hearby suggest the name iloadwin :-D
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
And not in a good way. Why oh why would someone take a perfectly good Mac and hack on it to run an inferior OS? Why would having shown that Mac hardware can run Windoze be a Good Thing? I can think of a lot of more interesting ways to gain cred.
So why are we running windows on a mac anyway... ?
Do you ever get superman jokes because of your name?
So you see what had happened was....
Disclaimer: I work for a division of Apple unrelated to hardware or system design.
2nd Disclaimer: In the Apple architecture wars, I side with the PPC supporters.
3rd Disclaimer: I not only own a Mac, I build my own PCs.
Apple has said they have in no way attempted to prevent Windows from booting.
Unless your post is a typo, you need to go back and check what has been said.
Secondly, despite not preventing Windows from booting, they have no obligation to the EFI standards nor to their customers (Mac users) to implement any additional features to support backwards compatibility with traditional BIOS. Why should they? It's not necessary in a Mac. The less work necessary to get a new design out, the better. Plus, from what articles say, it sounds like they have their hands full getting power management working.
Thirdly, as a PC user and one who has studied the history of modern desktop architectures, dropping support for BIOS has to be encouraged eventually. (While I would have preferred OpenFirmware over Intel's NIH-fit-induced EFI, EFI will have to do.) PCs have to move on eventually. Being one of the few manufacturer of legacy-free PCs will encourage the development of EFI support in PC OSs and hopefully move along development towards whitebox legacy-free PCs in general. Much in the same way that the original iMac spurred development for USB, the iMac Core Duo will hopefully spur the transition to a much cleaner PC design. Do you really want to have you PC depend on code written for a 8088 for yet another decade?
Heck, I recall there being some Register or Slashdot article which said something about the number of people who know how to write proper x86 startup code for traditional BIOSs has dwindled to less than 5. (this means that less than 5 people know how to startup a x86 processor through the modes in the correct order to implement the traditional BIOS)