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MacBook Pro Reviewed
phaedo00 writes "Ars Technica has an in-depth review of the MacBook Pro that compares performance with a Dell Inspiron running a hacked version of OS X 10.4.4: 'Yes, you read that right. We at the Orbiting HQ were able to have some benchmarks run on an acquaintance's Dell Inspiron 9100 with a 3.2GHz Pentium 4 HT chip running OS X 10.4.4, and decided that including the benchmarks from this machine would prove to be both interesting if not illustrative of what non-Apple x86 machines may be capable of if they could run Mac OS X (legally). Please keep in mind that the data from the Dell laptop is for illustrative purposes only and that no one at the Ars Orbiting HQ hacked a machine. As David Letterman says, this is not a competition. No wagering.'"
David Pogue has his review of the new Apple MacBook Pro in the New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/02/technology/circu its/02pogue.html
Another side effect of Apple switching to Intel chippies will be the increased number of comparisons of common apps (both functional and specific packages) across OS's. Before, it was always a bit sketchy comparing Win/*nix apps against OSX apps due to hardware differences. Now that the hardware is starting to become more "common", direct comparisions will take on more meaning.
Whether this is good or bad for Apple, we shall see.
*sniff* It's like the reviewer was my long lost sibling!.
Looks like they still have some bugs to work out, as the PowerBook G4 still outperforms the MacBook in some of the benchmarks.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Most (All?) VM software has extremely poor video emulation. Running MacOS X on unaccelerated SVGA pretty much defeats the point of using it.
What's the point of comparing it against an older laptop with a watt hungry Intel P4 desktop CPU? Are these Apple guys not comparing the MacBook Pro against the i9400 because it might be able to put the Pro to shame? Or perhaps they just can't afford another new laptop after their recent purchase from Apple.
The human race is artificial intelligence created using object orientated programming.
If the battery life is 3.5 hrs on a powerbook, sorry, macbook pro, it should be quite a bit more for the iBook. (if the iBook only has a single core CPU.)
I'm a big fan of ibooks, as they make awesome everyday-use machines.
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
does it run World of Warcraft nicely?
I'm curious to know why the battery life benchmarks given in the review are so low. According to the reviewer, 3.5 hrs. seems to be the highest figure, while my guesstimate would have been a good hour more. I'm fairly sure that it's not Core Duo (Yonah) that's at fault here, because the new Napa platform is supposed to be more efficient than its predecessor. Nor could it be the USB bug because AFAIK, it's happening because of an MS driver bug (it doesn't allow the CPU to reach the deeper-sleep state because it keeps polling). Is it the brighter display that's sapping up the power? Or is the current avatar of OSX not optimized on the new platform yet?
Furthermore, i think the benchmarks could have been more thorough, especially considering that it's hosted on ars. Anandtech does an excellent job in this department, IMO. This review came across as an easy-reading article, not a technical review.
The MacBook Pro looks great, and it is amazing that they still sell the Powerbook 15inch at the same price as the MacBook Pro- and the MacBook Pro has a better configuration at the same price. If you think I'm lying about them still selling the 15inch powerbook, then look here- Apple China Store . But, the site makes no mention of how well apps perform under Rosetta compared to native PPC operation.
OSx86 FTW
Most (All?) VM software has extremely poor video emulation. Running MacOS X on unaccelerated SVGA pretty much defeats the point of using it.
Well.. good point. But the same goes for most beige boxes without OS X driver support for accelerated video hardware.
Apple has an issue about their OS being hacked but now their official product is compared against a hacked version that performs equeally or better. This is gonna get insteresting as some people stated there was no real reason to hack it besides curiosity but I think PERFORMANCE is a good reason to try it.
The best test environment is production. - Me
chrome://browser/content/browser.xul
The MacBook Pro looks great, and it is amazing that they still sell the Powerbook 15inch at the same price as the MacBook Pro- and the MacBook Pro has a better configuration at the same price.
I could imaginge that lot's of specialized software (such as professional audio/video editing stuff) doesn't yet work properly on the intel macs, so there's still a market for G4 Powerbooks.
Plus, would you rather buy something called "Powerbook", or "MacBook Pro"??
1) That the Dell is non-natively beating up on the G4, and is nearly the same as the Mac?
:-)
2) The Dell is hobbled with a 4200rpm hard drive. Imagine if they'd used the same speed, or even a 5400!
46. The Hobo smiles, his eyes glaze over, and he burps. "Beware the man who has lived longer than the Wasteland."
after reading the article (and many others) now I am sure I am sticking with linux. after a few days of hasitation (I have tried macosx in vmware-player) and reading these hardware reviews I finally ordered a turion-based notebook.
sorry apple - maybe for my mom, not for me. not this time.
Though, in theory, that could be fixed.
Since OS X is *nix based and can run *nix code. We may see more "hacking" to increase performance for video in OS X.
VM is a great solution, but it really depends how you plan to use OS X. If you need all the power you can get, then running it natively, with out VM software is the only option. Though I guess that raises the arguement of why not buy a Apple? Which is a valid point, but for someone like me that has a descent system. I really don't want to drop another chunk of cash when what I have will already work. Also, some people may not want to use Apple hardware, they may like the look or feel of another desktop or laptop.
Though, unless Apple releases a version of OS X that will run on a non Apple PC with out hacking it. I think people running OS X on their non Apples will mostly be limited to the techie type and/or people just running it to run it. We wouldn't see much of average Joe with their new Dell or Toshiba laptop, going through the processes of running a hacked version of OS X.
I may give it a try just to say that I did, but I don't see me keeping it around much. I will stick to my linux, I get more out of it than I could ever with OS X.
Mine showed up Monday. Thoughts from a mac os x beginner:
1. the screen does have some flicker on very dim settings as noted. The auto adjust for room brightness is also a bit too sensitive - an aspiring os x hacker might want to see if an app could be written to make it less real time - use a rolling x seconds average of brightness? It is a very nice screen all in all, though.
2. the power brick's connector goes green when plugged in to the laptop, and then the light goes brown. This isn't very intuitive.
3. The blinding white led near the lid latch oscillates in brightness when the machine is in sleep. Did I mention how blinding it is?
Been trying to see if I can get it to vpn to a watchguard with free add ons - no such luck yet (anyone have a racoon conf for that?). Office 2004 took what seemed to be a long time to install, but installed without incident - I have only used remote desktop so far. This weekend I am going to play with the encrypted home directory stuff, and see what I can cook up to have my home directory sync with my active directory home dir.
Most "beige boxes" ship with Intel integrated video, which is well supported by OSX.
I do not mean any offence to Jacqui Cheng, but with the (notable) exception of the Dell comparison, this review was shallow at best. When I surf Ars I typically expect the nitty-gritty Hannibal type review, and instead we more or less have a completely mundane blog entry about someone's new toy. The writing style is all wrong for that site.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
I just got back from the Apple Compatibility Labs in Cupertino, and I was able to put my code on a MacBook Pro to do some build comparisons. On my current PowerBook G4, with a 7200 RPM drive, 1 GB RAM and a 1.67 G4, it takes about 20-25 minutes to do a full Release rebuild of my code (Universal Binary). It took around 5 on the MacBook Pro. Thank God my boss was with me to help test because that's the easiest convincing that I need a new laptop I ever done.
Bottom line : if you're a developer and you have long compile times on your code (AND you have the need/desire to be mobile), you NEED one of these machines.
The reviewer states, "It is important to note, however, that there is a "Better Performance" option under the battery life menu which, undoubtedly, maximizes the battery life in every way that the computer can..."
Actually "Better Performance" means the opposite, as it disables most if not all power saving options. "Better Energy Savings" will give the user longer battery life at the expense of performance. I find most applications almost unusable at that setting and tend to run under the "Normal" setting when I need to get work done. The better savings option is good for movies and checking email.
I got my new 1.83 ghz MBP on Monday, and am upgrading from a 1ghz G4 iBook circa Apr '04.
Okay, the increased performance is awesome. Really, things are just quicker all around.
But the biggest improvement...
The screen. Oh my. It's wonderful. It makes the 12" iBook screen look like it might be broken because of how much brighter the new MBP screens are. It's amazing. It actually may be nicer than my external 17" LCD screen. It makes working away from home positively enjoyable. Really, the screen alone makes the upgrade worthwhile.
ce n'est pas un Sig.
I would have liked a little more context on the Dell running OS X vs. the MacBook Pro, like general impressions rather than straight up numbers, but this was a great review. MagSafe sounds like kind of a bummer, at least for now. For people who need one now, this sounds like a great machine, but it really convinced me, who has a perfectly working dual G5 and giant monitor at home, that my need for a portable isn't *that* pressing. I'm eagerly awaiting the next revision, which hopefully will fix the MagSafe issues and, with any luck, restore those 60 vertical pixels they decided to chop from the display.
Slashdot: 24 hours behind every other site or your money back!
A true comparison: this should have been tried on a non-Apple Core Duo laptop running OS X. Core Duo is available from the likes of several OEM retailers in plain old Socket 478 variation, and on a variety of PC laptops with similar intel chipsets and graphics.
The main thing that interests me is the noise. How loud are the fans? I have already heard several bad things about the MacBook: display emits a humming, notebook emits a humming if cpu is idle (apparently known from earlier apple hardware, too), fans spinning very often. Is anybody able to comment on that?
This test obviously doesn't. It looks to me like they just picked up a laptop they had laying around to try. Like someone said (further down the page) this feels more like a "look at my new toy!" than it does a real comparison. Its a decent review of the item in question I guess. But single core vs. dual core isn't exactly an even comparison, especially on software that was designed to take advantage of it. Someone drag up a windows machine with similar hardware and then I'll be interested.
I hope Im not offending anybody, but that review was lacking in substance. Even the dell comparisons are not explained. just some graphs with no explanation of what the test methodology was.
New and improved Guilt. Now its alcohol soluble!
Mods should learn the difference between Insightful, Informative, and Interesting. Or if there isn't any difference, why bother with the distinction at all? Perhaps it should just be thumbs up and thumbs down, if we're too stupid collectively to care.
As owner of a G4 PowerBook, AppleCare does not happily repair the many defects discovered during the warranty periods of their hardware.
The list of defective parts is long, and there are some things broken by simple use that they refuse to fix under warranty.
Every user experience is different, but it makes me sad I encouraged our research project to use a lot of Apple hardware from XServers to powerbooks and desktops.
The result with generic hardware (which I have used often in the past) or Dell hardware would have cost less and hardly could have been worse from a support or defect perspective. How is switching to a new CPU going to affect the basic experience that Apple really sucks as a hardware producer and as a support company.
An article summary that summarized the article. Like, for instance, how did they compare?
Reg-free, non-expiring link: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/02/technology/circu its/02pogue.html?ex=1298955600&en=f5c97e002a9f9979 &ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
Courtesy of http://nytimes.blogspace.com/genlink
Maybe the instruction set differences have been eliminated, but apps on different platforms will differ significantly in terms of how they employ the native API. I would expect an application originally written for one platform and ported to the other to suffer a penalty in performance, features, or both on its non-native platform.
Applications written using platform-neutral toolkits will be dependent on the local implementation of the toolkit.
What's more relevant? How Excel on Windows compares to Excel on OS X? [I expect a disadvantage for OS X here.] Or PowerPoint on Windows vs. Keynote on OS X? [Or is this oranges and apples?]
How's the heat dissipation on these things? Everybody talks about performance, but nobody is talking about heat. Will it cook my legs and sterilize me or not?
Bryan
For the longest time, this was the single most exciting thing about the prospect of getting a new PowerBook for me [...]
What kind of shit is that ? That guy gets excited only about some fucking backlights ? Man, get a life dude !
If the picture of the women in the photo booth demo is the reviewer, the damn she is CUTE!!!.
Hello from my bedroom, where all the magic happens.
I, for one, welcome our new Pr0nCam overlords.
I love where her mind is. If she is reading this, my name is Hank. I love long walks on the beach. I am into exercising, science, and computers. Though I am geek, I am considered cool amongst other geeks. Also, I am tall, dark, and handsome.
PS: The review was great- so in depth.
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
nd then asked if I'd like to transfer my data from another Mac.
Ok, this bit has almost sold me. No wonder everybody loves the mac, what a beautifully designed machine. And what do we get from Microsoft to compare to this??
Actually, there is no more Powerbook 15. It's been removed from the online store for about a week. They have refurbs and whatnot still available, but no new ones directly from Apple.
Han shot first.
If you need all the power you can get, you won't use MacOS X.
the power brick's connector goes green when plugged in to the laptop, and then the light goes brown. This isn't very intuitive.
It's funny that you should say this, because that function is nearly perfect otherwise. As noted, green when charged, amber when charging. I've had to use other laptops which do not have this feature, and it's missed.
On the other hand, as the saying goes, it's the stone in your sandal which bugs you, and not the mountain you're climbing.
I'm not an electrical engineer, so I dunno why the light defaults to green. If the light could be programmed to default to anything, it should default to amber, and once it's figured out the battery is charged, default to green.
I'm not sure what it would take for that to occur. I wouldn't call this problem "unintuitive." I hesitate to call it sloppy, since it's so well designed otherwise.
Knowing Apple, it's probably some type of unfortunate compromise (the expense and complexity of getting a default to amber would not have been justifiable.) And yet, as you work with something that's been expertly crafted, it's minor failures seem more significant.
The performance difference between "consumer" laptops as dell and top-noch laptop as mac, the comparsion ends to price and hardware compatibility.
I cannot whine about Linux drivers support on MAC, I even have the modem working, most things that linux con laptop never works...
And ofcourse, the "coolness factor"... but, I think that the other laptops manufacturers will jump to the coolness factor...
Lets se... But for now. No new macbook for me...
Â_Â
I agree. I am a longtime user of IBM (Lenovo) notebooks and those things are tanks. Mine have gone through inumerable metal detectors, I've dropped the bag they're in, etc. No problems at all. This summer, I bought my daughter a 12" iBook for school, and it already needs a $150 repair for a bracket not covered under warranty. She loves the computer and takes good care of it, but it's ridiculous that a new machine should need repairs so soon.
If you want to run their graphical editing software, you will.
Although your repair experiences are no doubt aggravating, you are one person and thus represent too small a sample to form a general conclusion on the overall platform. For that, a large sample is needed. The data I have seen from Consumer Reports surveys of readers (a sample of 134,000 computers) reported in the December 2005 issue suggest the opposite conclusion:
For both laptops and desktops, Apple scored highest in customer satisfaction with tech support by a considerable amount. For example, for laptops, Apple scored 82 (very satisfied). This compares to 70 for IBM, 58 for Toshiba, 58 for Dell, 57 for Gateway, 55 for HP, 53 for Sony, and 49 for Compaq.
In terms of the percentage of computers that needed repairs, Apple was the lowest among makers of desktop computers. Among laptops, Apple was 4th lowest, behind Sony, IBM and Toshiba. Following Apple was HP, Dell, Compaq, and Gateway.
Apple also scores very high in the reader surveys conducted by PC World. So, while your experience was no doubt bad, the conclusion that "Apple sucks as a hardware producer and support company" is not merited.
You must me using a computer from some other Apple Computers. I've never had a repair take longer than 3 days from shipping the box to getting it back, and the philosophy has always been "anything questionable gets replaced." By far the best support experience I've had with any company, ever.
I received my MacBook Pro on Monday of this week. I transferred my data from a 12" PB using the Setup Assistant as well as the author of this review did. I found that application launch times and overall system performance were slower than the 12" PB I was replacing. A friend of mine bought an iMac Intel and had the same issue. I erased my drive last night restored the OS/bundled software and manually moved just my user data over to the MacBook Pro. Application launch times have drastically improved.
I've got a Thinkpad T30, which I've had for the past 2.5 years or so. I've had one HD die (a slow death, it wanted to be warm to work), I've upgraded my RAM, and it still keeps on chugging. I've lugged this thing back and forth to Europe at least a dozen times, carried it to hundreds of meetings and into dozens of data centers, all without fail (besides the HD). I agree on how well built these things are.
For the record, past Thinkpads should probably not be referred to as Lenovos, they didn't sell the line to them until recently. I, too, am a huge fan of Thinkpads. I really want one of those ones with the slidey-openey keyboard, even though they are reputed to have issues, because I am gigantic and laptop keyboards, even the very good ones on other thinkpads, are just not large enough. Thinkpads are certainly the most durable laptops I've used - Sony Vaios being the least.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Oh, but wait, I thought that to the Appleheads MHz did not matter... And, didn't many simply talk trash about HT due to its inefficiency (an argument I happen to support, btw--It's just cute to see how an avid Apple user always tends to twist facts to rationalize their investment in an overpriced computer)?
It's a bit strange that you had to have your hardware repaired several times, unless you are not talking about your private stuff, but about a big company...
The most important part of this review was the consistency with which the Dell laptop came within a 5% margin of benchmark results of the MacBook Pro, and the reviewer makes no mention of it in her conclusions.
I realize that legally running Tiger on a Dell isn't a viable purchase option, but from a review standpoint on a hardware nerd's website, the most obvious question is going unasked: what intrinsic difference is proportional to the price difference between the platforms, besides an integrated camera and a magnetic power connector?
If Apple's getting price breaks from having Intel fab their boards and supply more of the controller chips themselves, when are we going to see it in the price tag?
"Made up/misattributed quote that makes me look smart. I am on
I do not mean any offence to Jacqui Cheng, but with the (notable) exception of the Dell comparison, this review was shallow at best. When I surf Ars I typically expect the nitty-gritty Hannibal type review
You must be thinking back to the days when Ars actually reviewed stuff in depth - like the OS X reviews! Ahh, those were the days.
Sadly they are gone. The point I noticed this was when Ars reviewed Aperture with a similarily lacking review, including getting some things quite wrong and refusing to correct them and then simply not reviewing entire major sections of the application, while also not looking at any technical aspects of the application in depth.
Then I looked around a little more, wondering where my Ars had went. I found the most detailed review on the site at the time was a gaming mouse!
So, let's all say goodby to Ars and try to figure out where all the detailed technical reviews went to. Perhaps considering the past body of work this review is not "typical" but I think if you looked over the past year this review would in fact be very typical indeed.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
http://media.arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/macb ookpro.media/bench0.png
Wow! I wish I could get battery life like this on my laptop. All I can manage is a whole two minutes. This thing can get three!
The chart on Page 3 of the review linked says the battery times displayed are "Minutes and Seconds". It clearly should be "Hours and Minutes".
Perhaps the Migration Assistant hasn't been updated to 'know' about PPC vs Universal apps, and moved over PPC versions of your apps (possibly even replacing Universal versions on the new machine). Rosetta being used unnecessarily would seem to be a likely cause of the performance hit you describe, especially considering that when you just moved over your data the second time around, everything ran quicker.
I've seen a few posts here and there on Mac sites where some people found that Rosetta was kicking in when it shouldn't have on their Intel machines. Usually it was a matter of re-selecting the 'open with' application to make sure the Universal version would run, or just reinstalling the Universal app.
~Philly
What the difference is between an Apple x86 system and a non-Apple x86 system, because to me, they are one in the same. So this review is not so much about the MacBook Pro, but just comparing two Intel based systems against each other, running OSX. Any performance improvement could be attributed to the P4 HT CPU rather then any differences between a Dell and Apple notebook. I don't see anything in the MacBook Pro that should improve performance over PC systems as its 98% PC anyways.
Sorry, this might seem like flame bait, but Apple users need to realize now that Apple is shipping a PC clone, there are few actual Apple designed hardware in these things anymore, they are using off the shelf PC components and CPU's. A lot of review sites and news sites seem to thing that the MacBook will perform better then a PC, but your comparing the same hardware.
It would be interesting if they compared the MacBook running OSX to an AMD based system hacked to run OSX.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
> AppleCare does not happily repair the many defects
Exactly! As the owner of a 17" PowerBook that cost over $3k with AppleCare and a few upgrades, I am pissed off that my keyboard quit over a year ago. I'm stuck with using an external BlueTooth keyboard. That meant I had to buy another laptop for use when traveling. Apple refuses to provide a replacement keyboard for any aluminum PowerBooks they've sold, and it is their policy to even refuse to sell it at a price. A friend is a manager at the Apple Store in Charlotte, NC, and even he can't get a keyboard. Just call AppleCare and ask for the part number. They don't even have one for it! When the keyboard quit in my iBook, it took less than 30 seconds for my friend at the Apple Store to replace it with a new one. With the PowerBooks, they just screw you over. Got a key that doesn't work? Too bad.
The latest problem that started last week is that the fan has started making a loud noise and isn't pushing much air. Since then the system locks-up constantly. Apple so far has refused to provide an RMA #.
Dell is worse than this, but at least the Dells don't cost $3k just for a damn laptop. Thanks for nothing Apple.
More importantly, I have to say I always prefer the most practical benchmarks I can get my hands on. In that regard, why not do some application tests... one set under Linux ( to 'level the playing field' ), one set under OS X on the Mac and Windows XP on the Dell ?
Also importantly... what is really being tested here ? Core Duo vs P4HT ? Is Apple even an important part of this story ? Wouldn't it make more sense to compare a P4HT Inspiron against a Core Duo Inspiron ? That comparison should highlight battery life... ;-)
I was really pretty shocked when I realized the Inspiron had a P4... I was really expecting this to be a "compare the performance of this Core Duo laptop to the performance of this other Core Duo laptop... the numbers *should* be very similar, perhaps there's something to be learned by any differences". Instead... MacBook Pro Core Duo vs Dell Inspiron P4 ? It's just a weird thing to compare, especially if you're not looking at the power drain of the P4 and asking WTF it's doing in a laptop...
Other than driving page views from sites like slashdot, what is the purpose of the comparison done in this article ? Is anyone going to really buy a Dell P4HT laptop and run a hacked OS X on it because the Dell was 2 seconds faster encoding an MPG for iPod in one test, or buy a MacBook Pro ( rather than a P4HT Dell ) because the P4HT was beaten badly in overall XBench testing ? I sure hope not!
Anyway, it *is* an interesting comparison, but it still bugs me that there's no real reason for it, and the more I think about it, the less interesting it seems. The PowerBook G4 vs MacBook Pro comparison speaks volumes though... clearly Apple went to Intel because, at least in high-performance laptops, they had no other real choice.
The best real argument I have heard for Macs over PCs is this: "I'm used to a Mac, I have already invested hundreds of $$ in software for the MacOS, I know the Mac inside and out, and I already own 3 of them, and I find the networking/printer sharing much easier. Games do not interest me at all, and even if they did, all the best ones come out for the Mac eventually anyway."
It's more a matter of opinion to me.
After rereading your post, perhaps I should be modded down for redundancy.
I cried real tears when Li Mu Bai died.
I have a 15" Powerbook G4 with that same blinding light. What I've been doing is taking my metal tin of lip balm, Burt's Bees, and attaching it over the light magnetically. It works great! You're right though, that bastard's extremely bright, and I tend to charge my Powerbook on the table right next to my pillow when I sleep, so it's like a flashlight in my eyes.
While Lenovo wasn't selling them until recently, they've certainly been making them for quite some time.
BTW: I have a ThinkPad G40 and I think it's great. My wife has a G4 PowerBook which is also excellent. Neither machine have had any problems and they're both a couple of years old. I'd have a PowerBook, too, if certain engineering software ran on Mac OS X.
When you compile an ap in xcode as a universal binary, how does a PPC chip compile code for x86 and vice versa?
GCC has the ability to cross compile.
IMO the question with macs continues to be whether or not they are worth the price. I don't buy the commonly-spouted assertion that they're better designed than all PCs. Even some of the cases of the laptops have been terribly poorly designed, with hinges breaking after relatively little use, and the like. MacOSX is pretty sexy, but is it worth the hassle? Apparently not for you, since application support is a show-stopper. Running them under virtualization will be possible soon, but that just consumes additional resources...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
For those of us who still own Clamshell iBooks, 5 hours battery life doesn't sound all that impressive...
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
Beam sync is on by default with x86, but not ppc for xbench. If you turn if off, you get higher results.
I'm curious why everyone keeps saying that the MacBook just feels faster because applications open in fewer "bounces." This is an utterly meaningly metric given that it would not suprise me in the slightest if the speed of "bounces" is variable. I can understand the benchmarks based on comparing time to compute something, but the number of "bounces" is just rediculous.
So... who is the comparison good for?
People who are considering buying a new laptop, but haven't made up their mind about Wintel vs Mactel yet. People who don't have enough experience with modern Macs to gain any insight from benchmarks against other Apple machines. (so it's 2.23751 times faster than a 1.33GHz G4 Powerbook. Is that enough? Is it better than the 2.5GHz Mobile P3 machine I already have?) People who have been burned by Apple's bogus benchmarks and specious "World's Fastest X" claims before and want to know how fast the MacBook is really going to be once it's brought outside the Cupertino reality-distortion field.
0 1 - just my two bits
I want to see crossplatform apps (Cinebench, anything else with OS X86 versions) run on the following platforms:
1. MacBook Pro, OS X
2. Core Duo generic laptop, OS X
3. Core Duo generic laptop, Windows XP
And, if possible:
4. Core Duo generic laptop, Linux
That would be a _real_ benchmark.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
Yes, and what was disappointing for me was that the random laptop they had laying around did pretty well in the benchmark comparison, even though the hardware was clearly older and less capable (slower ram, older graphics, much slower hard drive).
The dell laptop that they used is 2 years old and discontinued plus it had less ram than both mac's. I would be more intrested to see how the macbook pro compares against CURRENT pc laptops
then why don't they share Fair Play? Or let me manage my iTMS tracks in my preferred music jukebox app? Or let me stream non-Quick Time files to Front Row? In truth, Apple wants to control your media experience, from the initial purchase, to your living room, your bedroom, and your ride on the subway.
One of the major shortcommings of the MacBook Pro is the removal of the PCMCIA slot in exchange of the Expresscard/34 slot. At least they could have made PCMCIA a built-to-order option.
The problem is that a number of 3G/UMTS services in Europe depend on PCMCIA 3G/UMTS add-in cards for what is basically relatively cheap, unlimited UMTS/GPRS network access without having to use a 3G bluetooth connected phone.
For people who more or less depend on these services for connection and doing their work, the MacBook Pro is basically no alternative at the moment.
Unfortunately, Apple has, at the expense of moving the plattform forward, removed the very options that people use for communication, and is in many ways recreating the same situation we had some years ago when they shed the serial ports from their machines; marketing systems lobotimized of important communications options. One should think that for a portable system, enabling the system for any type of communication would be one of its most important features.
The future is in beta
... damn she is CUTE!!!
... PS: The review was great- so in depth.
Instead of her Ars Technica review, it sounds like you want an in-depth review of her Arse Techniquea.
I own a 4 year old Toshiba laptop with a 15" LCD that has a native resolution of 1600x1200. Newer laptops come with even larger displays and 16:9/16:10 displays are a fad right now. These displays, despite their significant advantage with horizontal screen realestate, have fewer lines of horizontal resolution. I have considered buying a new laptop a couple of times now, but I am always discouraged by the giant leap backward in resolution. I cannot justify paying $2,000+ for a laptop that runs at a lower resolution than the one I have now... when you get used to high DPI displays (1600x1200 @ 15" or 2048x1536 @ 21") it is actually painful/annoying to look at large, low resolution displays.
didn't the bit about laying on the bed with feet in the air to get on jeans tip you off?
Many newspapers have the "chick who doesn't know anything about cars" automotive column. I took this for that basic genre . . .
hawk
Yes, as I fire up my industry standard FEA mesher, then switch to Mathcad, and then a powerful intuitive 3d CAD system, and a kinematics program, I wonder why the hell I spent $700 on a PC instead of twice that on a Mac that will run none of these things. For oh, about 1 millisecond.
Sure, if I wanted to mess about with photos and surf the web then I could get by with a Mac, but to design suspensions, which is what I am paid to do, I need a PC.
Having said that I probably will buy another Mac some time soon, now the stability issues have been sorted out, and the prices look more reasonable.
You want the taste of dried leaves boiled in water?
Unlike M$, Apple doesn't try to force everyone along its line. In other words, when M$ would make DRM mandatory part of their OS, rest assured nobody would be able to "refuse" such "offer".
Wait, back up. I am a mac user, and last I checked if I want to upgrade my hardware anymore now that Apple's switched to Intel, DRM is a mandatory part of my OS-- you cannot buy a computer with non-hacked Mac OS X unless it contains a trusted computing chip.
I am not willing to buy a computer with hardware DRM features or a trusted computing chip. Yet if I wish to continue using Mac OS X, I must accept this-- I can't keep using this G4 forever. Where is my choice here? "Accept hardware DRM or stop using our operating system." No. "My way or the highway" is not choice at all.
I've never bought a computer that wasn't made by Apple in my entire life (I did have that Linux PC for awhile as a second computer, but that was a hand-me-down and I didn't pay for it), but exactly because I as a customer am no longer having choice placed in my hands I do not think I will be continuing to buy Apple products any longer.
You are going to sit here and spin lies about Apple? I think you are a zealot.
Try mail-ordering books some time.
Blar.
Yes, but with lines like "Unscrew, snap, screw, and you're done.", how can one resist?!?
Tried Temperature Monitor by Marcel Bresink? I think he's got Core Duo compatibility. It's updated often enough.
http://www.bresink.de/osx/TemperatureMonitor.html
I'm interested in whether these new Macs are indeed cooler, to go along with their ace performance. (Lap heating early PowerBook G4 user speaking!)
MacBook Pro Offers Promising Start to Era Of Intel-Powered Apple
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress in this period in history.
While I understand ( I think ) what you are saying, wouldn't the test for the people who "haven't made up their mind about Wintel vs Mactel yet" be the test of MacBook Pro running OS X 10.4.5 vs Dell Inspiron Core Duo running Windows XP Home ?
Or, if you want to know "is it better than the 2.5GHz Mobil P3 machine I already have?", wouldn't you want a benchmark comparing the candidate replacement ( the MacBook Pro, running OS X 10.4.5 ) with the existing machine running the version of Windows you already have ?
I'll answer : yes, you would. The user you're thinking about needs application-specific tests under the OS they're going to use. The purpose of comparing benchmarks on the P4 running OS X 10.4.4 ? Still unexplained, except for "I wanted exactly the same benchmark under as close to the same OS as possible"... in which case running benchmarks under Linux would probably be a better, more accurate test.
My problem with the article is that someone might think it makes the comparison they care about, when in reality it misses the mark completely. Maybe someone is really, really tied to Word, and any comparison that leaves out the Rosetta-interpreted Word performance doing some basic functions ( creating a PDF or something ? ) might be doing them a real disservice. I mean, I really, really like OS X myself, but if someone doesn't care what OS they use and they want to use Word a lot right now... I might advise them to put off a MacBook purchase until Word ships a Universal Binary... unless Rosetta performance is good enough, which it's supposed to be... but this comparision doesn't show that, and IMHO approaches the question from a rather non-technical "let's compare these systems that I've managed to get XBench to run on" perspective. That comparison does yield real information, but is it the information we should care about? No, not really... I could give you similar results by showing a new Dell Core Duo vs. the Dell P4MT with some windows benchmark, and that test would be more meaningful just because you'd be using the OS you're actually going to use. We have no idea what the benchmark difference 10.4.4 vs. 10.4.5 on the same hardware might be, even.
So, for the gamer? Show WoW framerates on the MacBook, the older Dell laptop, and a new Dell Core Duo laptop. With the machines running the OS they'd be using on those machines.
For the office user, show some sort of Word benchmark on all three, noting that the OS X Word time includes Rosetta emulation and will be faster in some newer version of Word some day soon. Again, with the OS the user will use.
For the Linux geek, install Linux on all three machines ( detailing any differences required to get it to run ), and give compile time results for some favorite distros, along with some standard set of memory, disk and CPU benchmarks. If you're trying to test pure hardware muscle, and thus want to normalize and eliminate software differences as much as possible, this is the right way to do your benchmark, so this is the test for the EE or systems engineer, too.
So, those are the tests that those three types of people are going to really want... so, who really wants the hacked OS X on P4HT benchmark? The guy who wants to run that hacked system on his P4, and really... nobody else... I mean, it would be interesting see if either Windows or OS X is a winner at some sort of standard cross-platformizable test ( Ope
Ok, now let's see the Intel vs. G5 benchmarks -- that's what I really curious about
Here's a fair comparison:
1. Price a top-of-the-line MacBook.
2. Take that same budget and buy a WinTel laptop.
3. Install the same version of OSX on both.
4. Run your benchmarks.
While I'll concede that there is a "geek factor" to using OSX on a Macbook, I'm not willing to pay twice as much just to get an "authorized" OSX machine. If I can pay $1000 for a commodity laptop and get similar performance, then why should I pay $2000 just to get a cool bitten apple on my case?
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
I guess a good clue would have been the types of people the Apple Stores attract.
If those are the types being asked for their perspective in surveys, no wonder no problems are uncovered.
I think you lose IQ points for every minute you spend there among them trying to convince the "geniuses" (sarcastically named, no doubt) to fix your keyboard under the warranty.
It broke because you used it, so you are at fault. Great thinking. Any number of people seemed to have had the same problems with Apple refusing to fix keyboards when they break.
I'm sure the apple folks will be crying in their beer over this.
Yes, on the assembly and support lines. Perhaps some real tears will dillute their beer and reduce the buzz so they can assemble a quality machine or support it.
Jacqui Cheng:
Disturbing, however, was the alarmingly long BEEEEEEEEP that I was greeted with once I tried to boot up the MacBook Pro post-RAM-installation. I had hit the power button but the screen was black and the sleep light in the front had blinked at me a few times...
Ellen Feiss:
I was writing a paper on the PC and it was like 'beep beep beep,' and then, like, half my paper was gone, and I was like, 'huh?'
Time that we can compare Mac Laptops to other (branded) Laptops in $$$ basis.
a -51_m7700/area-51_m7700_features.aspx?SysCode=PC-L T-AREA51-M-7700&SubCode=SKU-DEFAULT
http://www.alienware.com/product_detail_pages/are
$2000 (standard configuration)
Alienware is not a OEM brand.
So, that machine should be compared to the Macbook $1997 model.
If it is being compared to 2 year old laptops as some (pc knowing) posters suggest, the real story should be the scandal of allowing Mac (or PC) fanboys review machines on known, respected sites like Ars.
As a G5 1600 desktop user, my day has come. I can easily compare Intel Macintoshes to the other "branded" x86. It looks like they are overpriced and the PowerPC fans turned out to be right.
I see these new machines and are underwhelmed with their performance. They compare a brand new top of the line laptop to a year old design and the new one if mostly faster by a bit. I thought the idea of the dual core was to be much faster. Lets see a benchmark of a new PPC chip compared to these things and see how the number fall out? How about something like the new multi-core/multi-thread chip from sun as well? I just see the intel switch as being stuck with power hungry hardware that just isn't as impressive as if they put the more power hungry G4's in a laptop.
Well done AC. I am now cooking potatoes.
Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda is a 29-year old white male with a stocky build and a goatee. He responded to my ad to be interviewed for this article wearing only leather pants, leather boots and a leather vest. I could see that both of his nipples were pierced with large-gauge silver rings.
Questioner: I hope you won't be offended if I ask you to prove to me that you're a nullo. Just so that my readers will know that this isn't a fake.
CmdrTaco: Sure, no problem. (stands and unbuckles pants and drops them to his ankles, revealing a smooth, shaven crotch with only a thin scar to show where his genitals once were).
Q: Thank you. That's a remarkable sight.
(laughs and pulls pants back up). Most people think so.
Q: What made you decide to become a nullo?
(pauses). Well, it really wasn't entirely my decision.
Q: Excuse me?
The idea wasn't mine. It was my lover's idea.
Q: Please explain what you mean.
Okay, it's a long story. You have to understand my relationship with Hemos before you'll know what happened.
Q: We have plenty of time. Please go on.
Both of us were into the leather lifestyle when we met through a personal ad. Hemos's ad was very specific: he was looking for someone to completely dominate and modify to his pleasure. In other word, a slave.
The ad intrigued me. I had been in a number of B&D scenes and also some S&M, but I found them unsatisfying because they were all temporary. After the fun was over, everybody went on with life as usual.
I was looking for a complete life change. I wanted to meet someone who would be part of my life forever. Someone who would control me and change me at his whim.
Q: In other words, you're a true masochist.
Oh yes, no doubt about that. I've always been totally passive in my sexual relationships.
Anyway, we met and there was instant chemistry. Hemos is about my age and is a complete loser. Our personalities meshed totally. He's very dominant.
I went back to his place after drinks and had the best sex of my life. That's when I knew I was going to be with Hemos for a long, long time.
Q: What sort of things did you two do?
It was very heavy right away. He restrained me and whipped me for quite awhile. He put clamps on my nipples and a ball gag in my mouth. And he hung a ball bag on my sack with some very heavy weights. That bag really bounced around when Hemos fucked me from behind.
Q: Ouch.
(laughs) Yeah, no kidding. At first I didn't think I could take the pain, but Hemos worked me through it and after awhile I was flying. I was sorry when it was over.
Hemos enjoyed it as much as I did. Afterwards he talked about what kind of a commitment I'd have to make if I wanted to stay with him.
Q: What did he say exactly?
Well, besides agreeing to be his slave in every way, I'd have to be ready to be modified. To have my body modified.
Q: Did he explain what he meant by that?
Not specifically, but I got the general idea. I guessed that something like castration might be part of it.
Q: How did that make you feel?
(laughs) I think it would make any guy a little hesitant.
Q: But it didn't stop you from agreeing to Hemos's terms?
No it didn't. I was totally hooked on this man. I knew that I was willing to pay any price to be with him.
Anyway, a few days later I moved in with Hemos. He gave me the rules right away: I'd have to be naked at all times while we were indoors, except for a leather dog collar that I could never take off. I had to keep my balls shaved. And I had to wear a butt plug except when I needed to take a shit or when we were having sex.
I had to sleep on the floor next to his bed. I ate all my food on the floor, too.
The next day he took me to a piercing parlor where he had my nipples done, and a Prince Albert put into the head of my cock.
Q: Heavy stuff.
Yeah, and it got heavier. He used me as a toilet, pissing in my mouth. I had to
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda is a 29-year old white male with a stocky build and a goatee. He responded to my ad to be interviewed for this article wearing only leather pants, leather boots and a leather vest. I could see that both of his nipples were pierced with large-gauge silver rings.
Questioner: I hope you won't be offended if I ask you to prove to me that you're a nullo. Just so that my readers will know that this isn't a fake.
CmdrTaco: Sure, no problem. (stands and unbuckles pants and drops them to his ankles, revealing a smooth, shaven crotch with only a thin scar to show where his genitals once were)..
Q: Thank you. That's a remarkable sight.
(laughs and pulls pants back up). Most people think so.
Q: What made you decide to become a nullo?
(pauses). Well, it really wasn't entirely my decision.
Q: Excuse me?
The idea wasn't mine. It was my lover's idea.
Q: Please explain what you mean.
Okay, it's a long story. You have to understand my relationship with Hemos before you'll know what happened.
Q: We have plenty of time. Please go on.
Both of us were into the leather lifestyle when we met through a personal ad. Hemos's ad was very specific: he was looking for someone to completely dominate and modify to his pleasure. In other word, a slave.
The ad intrigued me. I had been in a number of B&D scenes and also some S&M, but I found them unsatisfying because they were all temporary. After the fun was over, everybody went on with life as usual.
I was looking for a complete life change. I wanted to meet someone who would be part of my life forever. Someone who would control me and change me at his whim.
Q: In other words, you're a true masochist.
Oh yes, no doubt about that. I've always been totally passive in my sexual relationships.
Anyway, we met and there was instant chemistry. Hemos is about my age and is a complete loser. Our personalities meshed totally. He's very dominant.
I went back to his place after drinks and had the best sex of my life. That's when I knew I was going to be with Hemos for a long, long time.
Q: What sort of things did you two do?
It was very heavy right away. He restrained me and whipped me for quite awhile. He put clamps on my nipples and a ball gag in my mouth. And he hung a ball bag on my sack with some very heavy weights. That bag really bounced around when Hemos fucked me from behind.
Q: Ouch.
(laughs) Yeah, no kidding. At first I didn't think I could take the pain, but Hemos worked me through it and after awhile I was flying. I was sorry when it was over.
Hemos enjoyed it as much as I did. Afterwards he talked about what kind of a commitment I'd have to make if I wanted to stay with him.
Q: What did he say exactly?
Well, besides agreeing to be his slave in every way, I'd have to be ready to be modified. To have my body modified.
Q: Did he explain what he meant by that?
Not specifically, but I got the general idea. I guessed that something like castration might be part of it.
Q: How did that make you feel?
(laughs) I think it would make any guy a little hesitant.
Q: But it didn't stop you from agreeing to Hemos's terms?
No it didn't. I was totally hooked on this man. I knew that I was willing to pay any price to be with him.
Anyway, a few days later I moved in with Hemos. He gave me the rules right away: I'd have to be naked at all times while we were indoors, except for a leather dog collar that I could never take off. I had to keep my balls shaved. And I had to wear a butt plug except when I needed to take a shit or when we were having sex.
I had to sleep on the floor next to his bed. I ate all my food on the floor, too.
The next day he took me to a piercing parlor where he had my nipples done, and a Prince Albert put into the head of my cock.
Q: Heavy stuff.
Yeah, and it got heavier. He used me as a toilet, pissing in my mouth. I had to
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.