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OSDL to Bridge GNOME and KDE
Trax88 writes "Open Source Development Labs is previewing work that will attempt to make life easier for software companies by bridging GNOME and KDE. The effort, called Portland Project, began showing its first software tools on in conjunction with this week's LinuxWorld Conference & Expo. Using them, a software company can write a single software package that works using either of the prevailing graphical interfaces. Working with Freedesktop.org on unifying interface issues, they plan to release a beta version of the software in May and version 1.0 in June. Ultimately, advocates hope that it will be part of a larger but separate effort called Linux Standard Base, which is designed to make the operating system easier for software companies to use."
Dammit, bridge for FVWM2 too!
If it's no better than what Redhat did with their Frankenstein mix of Gnome and KDE, then I want nothing to do it.
I'd rather one or the other. But, really the other: KDE.
...that the hybrid desktop will be gnown as Knome :)
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.
Slashdot ought to ask its visitors what their favorite features between the two that are not shared so this OSDL project can get more guidelines from the right demographic. Ask Slashdot is a powerful resource to collect knowledge, perhaps more than any other system in the galaxy.
Why not just merge KDE and Gnome ?
I understand that my statement looks like a troll's dream but it would not be such a bad situation.
After all, Firefox is now the main F/OSS web browser with a large dominance among the F/OSS community. And it's not that bad. Why would it be so bad with desktop managers ?
Please enlighten me. Thank you.
Nice idea... of course like many I suspect I'm skeptical.
Look at the Windows side... Direct3D is pretty useful and was intended to remove the need for developers to write for specific graphics cards.
What happened? For a time everything was fine until the two major players, in an effort to differentiate themselves from the other went off in slightly different directions ultimately resulting in vanilla DirectX and Direct3D being a lowest common denominator between the two sides, and still forcing developers on both sides to write specific code for major devices so as to be able to offer the best experience.
I foresee a similar issue here. A common platform that enables an app written for it to work fine under KDE or Gnome will work great, at first, but then developers will find a feature of one or the other which they need, or at least want to have optional, so will design in parallel paths of UI rendering and functionality, ultimately resulting in a common framework that is insufficient for many apps.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
The benevolent dictator said:
"I personally just encourage people to switch to KDE.
This "users are idiots, and are confused by functionality" mentality of
Gnome is a disease. If you think your users are idiots, only idiots will
use it. I don't use Gnome, because in striving to be simple, it has long
since reached the point where it simply doesn't do what I need it to do.
Please, just tell people to use KDE."
Will this help users of non-linux systems, like myself running KDE on solaris/sparc whom are upset that all of Sun's bundled tools are gnome-specific and load up a billion gigs of dependant libraries when I try and launch them?
This is not a new desktop. This is a layer of separation between developers and the underlying graphics libraries Qt (KDE) and GTK (Gnome). This is so I can code an app using this new API and it will run and look good on both KDE and GTK systems.
I love the concept, I really hope that the implimentation will work out to be as good as the idea. If it works out this will be a major step towards bringing linux to more desktops.
GeekServ Unix Consulting Services (http://www.geekserv.com)
...It's cement. (That's "See mehnt" for you Red staters) Geddit? Portland? Cement? Hahaha. Laugh. It's funny. Or something.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
From the article:
Portland Project is working on two ways to gloss over the differences
I hope this doesn't mean it's doomed from the start.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
It's hard to tell exactly what this project is going to deliver, but it looks to me like an abstraction layer that will run on top of whatever GUI toolkit is available, rendering with native widgets.
This has been attempted before, and it usually doesn't catch on. There are plusses and minuses to both toolkits (as there are in any GUI toolkit). The problem that arises when you try to combine them is you end up with a superset of the negatives and none of the plusses that would lead you to choose one over the other. Essentially, it's the "lowest common denominator" problem. If a certain feature is present in one toolkit but not the other, then guess what? It's not going to make it into DAPI. If similar tasks are accomplished differently in the two toolkits, the Portland project is going to have to choose one, and shoehorn the other to fit. Either that, or introduce a third way of doing the same thing.
People view the existence of two competing desktop standards a "problem." I disagree with that. As a developer, if I see a certain application already exists on my platform of choice, I'm not going to make another one, even if mine would have been better. On the other hand, if I were a KDE man, and there was an existing app for Gnome, but one that I didn't really like, then there's a little more incentive to make a native KDE version, in the mold of what I really want. In the end, it's the users who win, because they can pick and choose between both apps.
So for now, pick one and go with it. Don't fall into the trap of trying to conquer both worlds at once.
My guitar chord generator.
Hi all,
0 6-March/msg00002.html
Please consider this email a formal request from the GNOME Foundation.
We, being the GNOME Foundation, as well as many GNOME Foundation members and
contributors to the project, have contacted you numerous times over the last
four years regarding the use of the old GNOME logo on Slashdot. We've posted
comments on Slashdot stories covering GNOME. We've been very nice about it.
Please update the icon used for GNOME stories on Slashdot. We have used this
logo since 2002, when GNOME 2.0 was released. It has been a *very long* time
since the marble foot logo represented our project. We're now at GNOME 2.14,
so we've shipped seven releases since the new logo was adopted. In that time
you have posted over 120 articles in the GNOME category on Slashdot.
We'd really appreciate it if you updated the icon. It may not be a big deal
to you guys, but our logo is a mark of pride for our project. We'd like to
see it used.
Thanks,
- Jeff
From: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/20
http://blogs.gnome.org/view/jamesh/2006/03/20/0
http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/random/logo/
and has been for years.
Best Slashdot Co
Perhaps they'll wait until it's decided (has it been already?) how sound will be done in KDE4. All I know is that they're doing away with arts. Don't know what they're replacing it with.
It's like sex, except I'm having it!
Just what I needed. ANOTHER computing standard to learn. Which standard is next to join the act? Maybe the next one will be more standard than all the other standards.
Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what's right. --Isaac Asimov
vi and emacs?
There's a difference between looks like kde and works like kde. Will the menus/config/keybindings be in the right place/format? Will the application handle dcop messages properly? Cross-platform toolkits usually abstract away the differences between platforms. It might translate the function calls and provide the right look, but that's only half of getting the proper look-and-feel.
The ubuntu openoffice-kde package does a nice job, but it's obviously not a kde application. I hope this toolkit gets it right because I would kill for a KDE version of firefox (damn these infernal gnome save dialogs!).
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.
I am waiting for kde4 myself. I used to be a kde fanatic but switched to gnome.
The UI and speed is horrendous and gnome is improving with every release. Kde4 is going to have a much cleaner and better interface with huge architectural changes. I look forward to it so I can try kde again.
http://saveie6.com/
So instead of a bunch of apps with names that start with "k" and a bunch of apps that start with the letter "g" we'll have a bunch of similar apps that start with the letter "p!"
It's crazy but it might just work!
The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return.
I'll tell you why I saw the light.. I was using Ubuntu with it's Gnome desktop.
Gnome was doing me well until I wanted to change something and couldn't. (Window manager metacity blows) So i switched to KDE's window manager, kwin.
Then one day I realized I liked Amarok and digiKam so I installed Kubuntu Desktop via apt-get while using Ubuntu. Figured I'd give KDE a try.
Within an hour I had KDE configured to look exactly like my gnome desktop, to every last button and taskbar. Then I realized, I didn't have to make it like gnome at all!
So in summary. KDE Is better than GNOME because KDE can look like GNOME but GNOME cannot look like KDE. Same as all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares. Gnome is a square.
Also, i had a preconcieved notion that KDE was a Windows desktop clone, which it might be at first glance, but you can quickly and easily make it your own.
Gnome is just inferior in comparison, but I still run it on my laptop.
to vote for Cowboy Neil.
...
If the "Portland Project" does not have sufficient Cowboy Neil there is no way it will be of any use to me.
Yes, I am quite aware that "Ask Slashdot" is not the same as a "Slashdot Poll".
Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
I'm a KDE fanatic who's attempted to use Gnome multiple times (I was actually a Gnome fanatic a while ago, around the time of Mandrake 8.2/9.0). Gnome seems way too demanding for slower machines. It's extremely slow on my 4 year old laptop, but KDE runs fine.
And speaking from experience, Qt4 should make leaps and bounds for KDE in speed and memory management.
It's like sex, except I'm having it!
KDE4 will (possibly, not 100% final yet) use an abstraction layer instead of directly using a sound system. This way the end user can decide which to use, and there are plans for gstreamer, xine, nmm, and arts so far I believe.
why not use WxWidgets?
I've been running KDE apps on GNOME and vice-versa for years, largely thanks to the work of Freedesktop.org at getting them to use common drag-n-drop, system menus, and notification area. So based on the incredible lack of information in the article, I had to wonder... WTF does this do that isn't already possible?
The Portland project page isn't particularly informative either -- the description is too low-level: "we're going to create two interfaces." OK, two interfaces to do what?
The Integration Tasks page actually provides information about what kinds of things they want to do: make sure apps built for both desktops will talk to the screen saver in the same way, deal with power management, share preferences like default apps, etc.
Sounds like a logical continuation of FreeDesktop.org's efforts so far, and something that will improve matters for people like me who like some apps from one desktop and some from the other.
I think GTK is admirable, but GNOME has regressed over the last 2-3 years to the point that it's no longer usable for me. The dumbing down of the GNOME widget set cornered me into a Fisher-Price user experience that I disliked greatly. Let's face it, I'm sure only a tiny tiny slice of Linux users are technophobes. Catering to such a tiny user base is a death wish for any but the most specialized of projects. If GNOME doesn't make an about face, it will eventually become nothing more than a fringe player with KDE owning 95%+ of the desktop pie. I have faith that GNOME can turn about and drop this "simplicity" crap, the question is will it?
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
Last I read, the most likely replacement will be gstreamer. Too bad, I've had lots of trouble with gstreamer, and none with, say, xine.
The sound system differences only prove that it's impossible to make a program be both KDE and GNOME-like. Sure, you can make it use either GTK or Qt, but that doesn't make them be a KDE or a GNOME app. The two have differing ideas, from visual to usability-related.
Last but not least, KDE gnomes are usually integrated with the rest of KDE, I suppose the same is true for GNOME. How would this integration be implemented properly?
I've always envisioned a perfect world. Where the libraries and such for each operating system would be part of a publicly avialable set, so that you could make a piece of software for one OS, and it would work on the others. Kind of like java, but at a level that would be implemented in C. Too bad this will never happen with Microsoft. They have no reason to allow Linux/Mac usage to spread any further. Yes, Microsoft released .NET stuff for Linux, but as I recall, it's still rather limited and not ready to be used in it's raw form. BUt I like this idea. Same basic concept, but on a GTK/KDE level..... At least bridges one of the biggest gaps in the Linux community.... Now let's see Gentoo use flags implement this so you can install k* without the kde libraries....
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
...this sunday on Pay-per-view! Only $50! On a side note, GNOME bites.
I was thinking the same thing after a few of my earlier posts describing the differences between KDE and Gnome. Many KDE apps are KDE apps because of their integration with DCOP and such. Features which (I believe) Gnome lacks the infrastructure for. If one app uses a custom KPart from a separate application, how do they plan on making it work on the Gnome side? Amarok is an excellent example to look at for this instance.
It's like sex, except I'm having it!
Isn't that Linux desktop unification what FreeDesktop.org is supposed to do?
--
make install -not war
Exactly what my Linux desktop needs.
Not.
Vendors like Sun will continue to choose Gnome over KDE, for the simple reason that KDE costs money for non-GPL development.
will i be able to use KDEs superior dialogs such as kdeprint, filechooser, etc. with GTK2/gnome apps ?
also, will interface items like toolbars look and work like KDEs ?
What ? Me, worry ?
Wow, that's how you choose a desktop? Amazing.
Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
Let me know when it also works with ncurses.
Firefox->File->Open File.
/tmp/xxx
/tmp while you are typing, without completion overwrite, /tmp/mp/xxx
/etc/tc/fstab /etc/termcapc/fstab.
Type in:
The GTK completes
so you end up with:
If this manages to work the first time, backspace the whole thing, and you
will see the bug.
Or, try to type '/etc/fstab'
You get something like:
or better:
I guess if you type poorly, this interface is for you.
Type a letter, look to see if it completed for you, type the next letter,...
The bug exists from RH9 to FC5.
I humbly apologise. I didn't realize Slashdot was renown for its formal discussions.
;)
I did not realize I was in a triage at work. I'll be sure to not drip any cynical remarks into future discussions about Gnome, okay? I now realize that sort of thing was previously unheard of on this site.
Thank you for setting me straight. I truly appreciate your feedback.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
The portland API is hardly going to replace either of the desktops' APIs. Even if they do leave out all the components that aren't mirrored in each, they can still get all the common functional components which are certainly there. Not all apps need all the widgets in KDE and GNOME.
You're talking about style, increased usability and integration; but you forget that if people want to use apps from both desktops you sacrifice those anyway. The LSB is making progress on solving those problems, and has already influenced the desktop groups.
Other cross-platform projects such as wxWidgets are successful, which has been used by AOL and NASA. Anything which makes it easier for developers to choose to allow users to pick whichever UI backend they prefer has got to be worth trying. That's greater user freedom.
Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave.
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria.
Gnome and KDE together.....
"Physics is to math as sex is to masturbation." -R. Feynman
Seems his post had content. Doesn't like the hidden options, doesn't like the color schemes (or lack thereof), doesn't like lack of configurability.... Yours had none.
Having an application that will run nicely in both desktops is appealing in itself, but aren't the respective API's for Gnome and KDE (which are quite different) one of the great incentives for developers? If this new API is going to appeal to lots of (all?) developers, it would need to somehow appeal to both camps, and given their significant fundamental differences in coding styles, that might be difficult.
I presume that the project name derives from Portland cement, an essential component of concrete.
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
Hope this project succeeds.
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
Will this effort address automatically discovering and displaying (as icons on the desktop) new devices like USB attached cameras, USB drives, printers, etc? Those are the real pain points that I deal with nowadays.
Because the real problem is not so much the used framework but to use a single set of guidelines. The main obstacle of the Linux desktop is the usability, the look&feel of the applications. If one just uses 2 different applications on Linux, one most likely has to learn 2 different ways how to work with. If one uses 10 different application one doesn't have to learn 10 different ways but quite possible 5 to 7.
. html) and follow the links to the sources. Or go and read the guidelines themselves at http://wyoguide.sourceforge.net/guidelines/content .html.
t s/2005-December/000349.html), they seems to already have forgotten. I've also informed Novell and posted it to LinuxQuestions, almost no reaction. So what else can I do?
So I created wyoGuide (http://wyoguide.sf.net/) exactly for this, to finally have a single set of guidelines. And I designed wyoGuide to be cross-platform guidelines since no serious developer codes for a single platform these days. wyoGuide can and should be used on any platform with any framework and any language. Sure I do provide sample code written in C++ with wxWidgets but I'd love to put up others sample code as well. So far nobody familiar with other's framework volunteered.
To stress this point again, the Linux desktop won't become a success unless it can't be agreed on this single set of guidelines. It's possible that everybody sits together and designs yet another set but the outcome won't be much different than wyoGuide. On the other side wyoGuide is still work in progress and I'm open to any suggestion to make it more suitable for anybody.
If somebody doesn't believe me just read the LXer article here (http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/54009/index
What I'm curious about is how the Portland project handles this info, the knew it since December 2005 (http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architec
O. Wyss
See http://wyoguide.sf.net/papers/Cross-platform.html
I just tried it serveral times in Firefox 1.5.0.1 on Ubuntu Dapper, and it works there. Not only do I have tab completion, the text field even pops up a chooser list to help resolve ambiguities.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
If this project pans out technically (i.e. I don't know how difficult it is to implement) it has the potential of erasing one of the biggest hurdles to adoption of Linux on the Desktop as there will be no more need to worry about your KDE/GNOME app being integrated on the other's environment.
...but can you do the same with wxWindows and Qt?
0 70562
No you can't, just look into the wxWidgets mailing archives.
See also: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=182300&cid=15
O. Wyss
See http://wyoguide.sf.net/papers/Cross-platform.html
G.A.S.
Sorry, I couldn't resist...
But, gnown as Knome is REALLY one HAL of a good one... Imagine attaching Gnome to the HAL exoskeleton.... Oh, now THAT sentence was serendipitous...
Jeez... image word: chipmunk
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Nope, the next standard is to standardize standards...
To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
If Linux had a user interface, every Windows developer would be porting to it.
Simplicity has great value.
Have you read all 54,000 pages of tax code?
Are you aware of all the laws that apply to your daily life?
I believe simplicity in general, and especially simple laws and simple codes are important - otherwise you get to the point where not even one specialized person can understand a single entity.
I heartily applaud Gnome, Gaim, Firefox, and other open source projects who are making the effort to *simplify* their programs.
Simple is far from stupid; simple is smart!
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
Linux has a _ton_ of user interfaces. _That's_ why every Win32 developer _isn't_ porting to it.
Here's hoping something like this will eventually reduce the difference between GNOME and KDE to just different APIs for the same underlying WM...
whatcha gunna do now that suse is moving to Gnome as the primary desktop?
I like to use Gnome myself. There ain't nothing wrong with KDE. I just don't need all of those bells and whistles.
I have come to a conclusion that every new release of software is distinctly worse than the other. Why? It's because the fat lady can't sing. There's a natural tendency to add stuff," Negroponte said. "Suddenly it [becomes] like a very fat person--uses most of their energy to move the fat. We've gotten to the point where we have to completely rethink." (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1945967,00.a sp)
KDE looks to much like windowz for me. The best thing about Linux is you can use different desktops. If you have enough disk space you don't have to chose. Most modern computers come with disks big enough to install 2 or 3 desktops. I use SuSE but like Gnome, but have I KDE installed. I use applications like kb3 in gnome because I like some of its features. With both desktops installed some applications run on both desktops. But if there was a KDE application I wanted to run that only ran with KDE its a simple log out, change sessions, and log back in.
I trust Microsoft as far as I could comfortably spit a dead rat
Except for panels such as the file browser and print setup, and other popups like error messages and alerts, etc, people probably would never notice if they are running a Gnome or KDE program on either desktop. The differences in GUI between the toolkits are miniscule due to them copying each other and copying Windows (and Windows is only "consistent" because the toolkits there copy each other, there are in fact many *more* different GUI toolkits used on Windows than Linux).
I would like to see a Unix-style solution to this mess, which is to have small programs do each job. In the file chooser case, any program wanting to popup a file chooser would do something like exec("file_chooser", args...) and wait for it to exit. Exit with an error means the user hit cancel. Exit with success and the program will print the chosen filename to stdout. Existing toolkits would be modified to do this, scrapping their filechooser code.
This would allow people to experiment with new designs of file choosers. This would, within a few months, make Linux have the best file chooser in the world, as opposed to being in last place as it is now. Also practically, the file chooser program could lauch and keep a process running, allowing all the read directories and all the icons and thumbnails and user preferences to be already loaded and cached and shared between every file chooser, rather than the obscene overhead that exists now. It would allow all programs to instantly integrate into KDE/Gnome/XFCE because they all call the same file chooser and other popup panels.
Even today there is a lot of precedence. After a long line of crap, it is becoming accepted to display a web resource by running "firefox ", rather than running the toolkit's html preview widget. There is already a program called "dialog" or "kdialog" that does a very limited version, though people seem to think this is only for shell scripts, but nothing keeps programs with no tookit from exec'ing it.
I would like to see some sign that the freedesktop.org guys are considering this, but have not seen anything. Really sad and scary, as they are killing the biggest advantage Linux has or could have over other systems.
Can we just have the "desktops" agree to disagree and have a configuration option for standardized dialogs and button order? It is absolutely retarded to have one app on your system have Ok/Cancel and the other app have Cancel/Ok.
Personally, I prefer the KDE style because I use Windows at work and dual boot at home. Ok/Cancel is what I'm used to, and it makes more sense to me. If Gnome users prefer the Mac way of doing things, hey - that's great. But no matter what *desktop* a Linux user is using, they are going to be using a mix KDE *apps* AND Gnome *apps*. Can we *please* just have a configuration option that switches button order, file browser dialog style, etc. based on what the *user* wants?
Thanks
"Good people drink good beer"
One thing I'd like to see in the libraries developed for cross-toolkit use: if you're doing it in C, do it well and use Glib as a basis. It's a good cross-platform runtime support library with no extra dependencies, and it won't spoil the purity of your Qt or Xfce code by pulling in a Gtk+ main loop or something. It's sad to see Freedesktop libraries avoiding a Glib dependency in the core library for political reasons, reinventing the set of wheels that Glib provides and adding a -glib compatibility layer on top of it. Leave the "it came out of GNOME, so it can't be good" rhetoric to /. fanboys.
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
I had not heard that.
I guess I will either have to bear with Gnome because I think that Suse is a great program.
or
I will just have to use straight Debian to get the functions I want.
Please update the icon used for Microsoft stories on Slashdot. We have used this logo since 1998. We have never used a logo that portrayed our chairman and founder as a Borg.
We'd really appreciate it if you updated the icon. It may not be a big deal to you guys, but our logo is a mark of pride for our company. We'd like to see it used.
Odd. My version of Firefox does that too, but unlike yours it does do completion overwrite. This is with GTK 2.8.16.
Well, I'm not going to nitpick with you over your opinions on firefox (though it's much better than you seem to think) but your idea that MS could possibly even be happy that firefox exists, let alone be behind some kind of conspiracy to make it, is completely not fucking based in reality. Firefox has almost double the marketshare of all other non-IE browsers combined . Firefox has more marketshare than Mozilla ever did, and IE now has less marketshare than it's had in a longtime. Hate the interface if you want, but you got to respect firefox for being the first f/oss browser to finally give IE some sort of competition.
"What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
Isn't Arts a sound abstraction layer? :)
Phonon is going to be a tiny layer KDE layer that all apps that want to output sound can use. Arts isn't as much a 'layer' as much as an entire sound server. Phonon will be pretty a little part of kdelibs, not an independent app.
There is no need for mixing KDE and Gnome alltogether.
As I already mentioned in another slashdot discussion some time ago, I run KDE on vt7 amd Gnome on vt8. (And Fluxbox on vt9 just for OpenGL 3D accelerated games but that's another story.)
Just try it: On KDE 3.5.x, click "Switch User:Start New Session" on K menu. You will get your favourite login manager running on a new terminal. Pick another deskop you have installed. Switch back and forth with Alt+Ctrl+F7,F8,F9... And don't forget you still have your framebuffer consoles on Alt+Ctrl+F1..F6.
There you are, staring at me again.
Enlightenment doesn't have kioslaves, doesn't have many shared dynamiac libraries that applications built off it should use (to keep memory minimal). Doesn't have a real design concept in how things should be written (kdeinit handling all sorts of libraries was pure genius in my opinion).
But, it does look pretty.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
'drakroam' works fine for me.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Yes, the community or organization that supports a piece of software matters, and I don't like KDE's: we have a big group of zealots that (apparently) oppose making software simple to use, then we have the developers that are wedded to C++ development and screwed up big time on licensing issues, and finally, we have at the heart of it a commercial software vendor that controls the core toolkit, charges commercial users, and for whom Windows and Macintosh are at least as important as Linux.
KDE is fairly good technically; if it weren't for its awful community, it would be a reasonable alternative to Gnome.
Actually, my post did have content. He doesn't like the Gnome color scheme, I don't like what the people developing and advocating KDE are doing. I think my concern is at least as important as his.
yep, this was the ugliest crap - but it fortunately is fixed ;)
gtk+2 2.8.16 (from slackware-current) works as it should
ps. subject is trimmed because i entered 52 symbols and limit is 50 !!!!!111~~~~!!
Rich
An easy way to install and manage fonts.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
i was talking about behaviour when user input was added to autocomplete, not replacing it. not about it failing second time or whatnot.
Rich