Slashdot Mirror
Bio-Engineered Rice Uses Human Genes
gliph writes "Yahoo news has a piece about a small biogenetics firm that is using genetically engineered rice containing human genes to help fight diarrhea. From the article: 'Ventria's rice produces two human proteins found in mother's milk, saliva and tears, which help people hydrate and lessen the severity and duration of diarrhea attacks, a top killer of children in developing countries.'"
Reading the headline, I was sure this is fake news. Come on, Condoleeza and human?
Now I don't need to worry about dirrhea when I eat rice!
Scientists need to learn that just because you can do something doesn't mean that you SHOULD do it. However much it might help the PR of the administration, reengineering Condoleeza Rice to give her human genes is going way too far. This madness has to stop.
Eat uncooked flour dissolved in a little water.
Eating cooked rice also helps stopping diarrhea. Normal rice, non genetic modifications whatsoever.
These simple old tricks come all the way from my grandmother, and i've used them often enough to know that they work (either that or it's the placebo effect in action).
So why exactly do we need frankein-rice for?
Soylent Green.
And when you do an insulin shot, is that
also injecting yourself with a part of a
human? Many drugs are made in e.g. e.coli
where a human or modified human gene is
expressed to make a protein, then purified
and sold. This new approach is just
packaging the relevant drug/protein in a
capsule which happens to be a rice grain.
No ethics problems here.
Oops, I meant to say "feeding poor people bio engineered rice?" Wow, it's late I should sleep.
Not really: we share many genes with other animals that we eat.
U.S company avoids human trial testing in states, instead using children in Peru.
FTA
>"Earlier this month, a Peruvian scientist sponsored by Ventria presented data at the Pediatric Academics Societies meeting in San Francisco. It showed children hospitalized in Peru with serious diarrhea attacks recovered quicker -- 3.67 days versus 5.21 days -- if the dehydration solution they were fed contained the powder."
--- I've completed diagnosis of your problem and can classify it as a YOYO...You're On Your Own
Ethics - Schmetics! ;)
You obviously never had a little child with severe diarrhea. Which is sometimes accompanied by a lot of vomiting. So everything you feed to your child goes out. If not in first few minutes upwards than in next few minutes downwards.
Eating human? Please. There are many genes that are common to many speices. So, 'eating genes' that are present in pig/cow/horse/chicken... and human... Well, you cannibal!
The Sig, the sig
So far I've only seen posts in the line of "what for?" "it's not needed" and complaints about the ethical aspect. It's very easy to complain about the ethical side of things when you have your business well settled, but in developing countries, mere survival may be more important than that.
When clean water is not always at hand, diseases such as dysentery are easy to catch. Although this rice is no cure, it can help prevent the loss of fluids associated with this disease and help save lives.
So, what are these ethical issues you were referring to again?
Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
You know what helps people hydrate? Water. Clean water and food can prevent diarrhea. All that money going into genetically engineered crops. Why not fix the socio-political problems of these regions so the infrastructures -> people can become healthy?
Oh yeah... no profit in that. Hell's gonna be standing room only.
That's the questions. Not whether that rice has super-human powers. Is it fertile? Can the farmer put away some of his harvest for next year to plant a new crop or is the outcome of the rice sterile?
If it does, is he allowed to? May he actually plant that rice without a new license for next year? No kidding, some (very popular) sorts cannot be used anymore because the company holding the rights (yes, there is rights and patents on food. Go figure) doesn't allow using it anymore.
This malpractice is getting more and more common to make farmers dependent on industrial seeds.
So that's the questions I'd prefer to have answered. Not what the wonder-rice could be. I'd be interested in the question what it IS.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I know that plenty of the people here locally in the University of Nebraska work on developing crops that grow in developing nations and help these people to cultivate the land and become more self-sustaining. I imagine that the intent here isn't to try and sell rice to Africa, but rather find a type of rice to grow in Africa. And dehydration may not seem like much to you, but in Africa believe it or not infant mortality from dehydration is very serious. They use cheap formula watered down with bad water to begin with, and then they get sick on top of that, which causes worse dehydration. If this saves lives of babies, then I'm for it.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
"Is there truly a line being crossed if the genetic material belonged to humans?"
Last time I pollinated a plant was never so... yeah.
Yeah, why produce GM food to produce proteins that we need, when instead they can go and insert these genetic modifications into humans and then we won't need to turn to certain foods to get the benefits. The benefits can be directly enjoyed without doing anything.
The necessity to eat certain foods could be overcome if this technology could be inserted directly into the human body, in addition to genetic modifications to help those with nut allergies etc. to overcome their problem. (Or at least in the next generation of children that they have...).
..IS PEOPLE!!!
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
I see where there might be ethical questions worth asking, but I have been homeless. And I have a small baby. If I had to choose between eating rice with human genes or not, I might first consider what I consider to be a greater issue. Will this help save the life of my child?
In developing countries, the answer may be yes.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Does this remind anyone of the Steven Wright line about rice?
"I'm going to court next week. I've been selected for jury duty. It's kind of an insane case -- 6000 ants dressed up as rice and robbed a Chinese restaurant. I don't think they did it."
No ants involved this time around, but still...
I, for one, welcome our sentient grain overlords.
This tagline is umop apisdn.
Let the torrent of lame Soylent Green jokes commence.
Office Space trivia game - play it now douche hole.
If we're worried about robbing the thunder of the heavens of what makes humans special, then I don't think we've infringed on that. Perhaps we are walking in that direction, but I'm not sure this actually infringes there.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
1:133 people in the US have Celliac Disease - inability of the gut to absorb nutrient. #1 symptom = Diarhea. Diarhea wipes out the villi in the intestines, which is your body's system for up-taking nutrients from foods as they pass through the gut. No villi - no nutrients:: You Die.
I've seen no study to verify mammary colostrum and human tears have any propolactic effect on villi, but paired with rice its a good starter. Celliac Disease causes the body's immune system to adversely react to a protein found in wheat products - gluten. Celliac's are able eat rice without the toxic effects of other grains.
There is no cure, no treatment, no therapy for Celliac Disease. The only thing that can be done is remove gluten from the diet. The damage to the villi can be reversed in most cases and health maintained with a disciplined gluten-free diet for Life.
The GM rice/human DNA engineered grain could only reverse the death rate in developing countries if the GM DNA provide an immunity. The villi are delicate structures which regenerate all the time in health people. They are wiped out when anyone gets diarhea. That's what diarhea is, loss of villi, medically.
If the GM rice passes immunity to the villi, they have a treatment for every 1:133 American's living with the disease. Not bad market.
Now introducing... White Castle RiceBurgers! They contradict themselves...
My sarcasm detector doesn't know what to do with that one.
If it's for real (and not some sort of typo), you just distilled the anti-globalization fanbois' (and -girls') greatest bait-and-switch down to one sentence. Let's work on the real problems instead of feeding people. Well done, sir.
If you were indeed sarcastic, please accept my apologies.
And if you repeatedly harvest grains with human genes in them, does that make you a cereal killer?
Here's a bigger question: do you really think that families who are faced with their children dying of dehydration will be able to afford this product? Sure, there will be a small number treated with it due to volunteer hospitals, peace corps, red cross, religious organizations, etc. But the great majority of this will be sold at profit to families who are not at a significant risk of dying from diarrhea related dehydration.
Not that I'm saying that, if the product is effective, parents who can afford it should forego it simply because there are children out there whose family can not afford it. But using the fact that children die of diarrhea as the tool to allow the company to be allowed to make it is misleading. Yes, there is a chance that the company as a whole intends to offer this at extremely discounted rates to poor children throughout the world. But I've been too jaded by pharm companies to realistically think that is on their agenda except as a couple high profile publicity maneuvers which don't put a dent in the problem (although it will be a good thing for those children lucky enough to be saved by the PR move, that's not why the investors and board of directors decided to go ahead with this concept.)
I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
Seriously.
Shut. The. Fuck. Up.
It's easy for you to bitch and moan and fear-monger about the ethics of human DNA in some rice, from your computer chair in your air-conditioned first-world home or office. Meanwhile there are people - real, live people - people with thoughts, and feelings, and whose well-being you'd place at first-priority, whose well-being would be your tantamount concern, whose well-being would trump these silly goddamn over-analytical beardo quack ideas and "what ifs" -- that is, if you weren't such a fucking unthinking monster -- and these people are shitting themselves to death. And even though you and I both laughed as kids when we played Oregon Trail and learned what "dysentary" meant, one of us has managed to grow up, and figures it'd be best if we could put a stop to this horrible pain and suffering in the real world. Meanwhile, the other one is playing Armchair Philosopher, talking about lines being crossed and the ethics of eliminating suffering , without knowing the first thing about what he's talking about. Jesus Christ.
Have you heard about a little invention from the very late 1700s called "vaccinations"? Is this "ethical" in your eyes? Was it "ethical" for Louis Pasteur to inject human beings with (residual amounts of) COW DNA? Or should we have put a stop to this and let smallpox continue to ravage the globe? What about blood transfusions? That's OMG human DNA as well. Or, wait, are you one of those fucking quacker-flappers, like that lady who made an entire campaign out of "HIV does not cause AIDS", then gave AIDS to her daughter (by not taking any preventative measures during pregnancy)?
Look. I'm trying not to be too much of a -1 Flamebait -1 Troll -1 Confrontational Asshole, but what is your deal? If someone you loved (assuming you are actually capable of feeling empathy, or anything beyond Moral Sense [c.f. Twain, "The Mysterious Stranger"]) was locked in a room, in a hotel you did not own, which was currently on fire, would you worry about the ethics of breaking the door down? Would you tap the fireman on the back as he was about to take an axe to the door, and oh-so-wisely, intellectually bleat^H^H^H^H^H state that it was a violation of ethics to be destroying property that wasn't yours? Would you then put on your Humble Pious Face, with your head solemnly cast down, and proclaim your grief for the impending loss of your wife / child / mother / father? Or does this garbage only spew forth from your mouth when it's other people's children whose lives are at risk?
So much idiotic diarrhea dribbling out of your mouth - I'm sure this isn't the only completely moronic thing you've managed to come up with in your blessedly short existance. Maybe you could use a DNA injection. I know I'd gladly sodomize you. I mean "innoculate" you - I get those two words confused =)!
MODS: -1, Whatever me all you want. I prefer not to intellectualize idiocy (such as the Parent post), so if you're going to mod me down for calling bullshit when I see it, mod me down, for calling bullshit, when, I, see... it. </Shatner>
It is my philosophy that one positive, fulfilling life is better than ten poor, miserable lives. I, Distantbody, wish sincerely that organizations would STOP prolonging peoples lives if those lives are not likely to utter "contentment" on their deathbed.
- The product is donated as is.
- The product is purchased by charity organizations in place of their usual food purchases.
- The product is sold directly to developing nations in somewhat exploitative fashion.
- Any of the above three options, however instead of purchasing said product over and over again, it is a one time purchase and then the people are given the means to grow the rice themselves.
Some companies are in fact using US dollars to help Africa become self-sufficient, because not only is it humane, but in the end, it is cheaper for us to help them become self-sufficient than to give them money every year.http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
"What about the ethical aspect of putting human genes in rice? Wouldn't people who eat that rice be eating a part of a human? That's kind of freaky to think about."
I dunno, ask Paris. Opps, sorry, she doesn't swallow.
/. bug #926803 - Why I can post.
Since rice is typically grown in said developing countries there's a fair chance that they will have access to it.
someone had to say it
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Oh damn..
Could we solve the actual problem (working on issues of economic equality and proper utilities and civil infastructures) instead of feeding poor people?
Hm. This reminds me of Sam Kinison's take on how to end world hunger:
"Stop sending these people food. Send them U-Hauls! Nah! Send me. Everybody on board! We'll make one trip. See this stuff! It's SAND! Nothing grows in this shit! Nothing's gonna grow in this shit! Get your kids, get everyone aboard! I'll take you where the FOOD IS!!!! You live in a fucking Desert!"
So easy to solve a problem from afar. All the proper utilities and civil infrastructure isn't going to help impoverished people in the middle of a desert or a long-running draught. In that situation, where does the water come from? Oh, that's right - the tap.
"genetically engineered rice containing human genes"
So, it tastes like chicken?
What does Jobs tell his follower not to eat ?
Anything comming out of Microsoft Cuisine, of course, because it's pure eeevviill !
(Sorry, I couldn't resist)
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
But no qualms about human breast milk? They even feed that to babies.
So if I decided to have bunches of children without any means of supporting them, would someone please bail the little tykes out? Thanks! Gee, if we were having children at the rate of the ones needing help, we'd be a lot closer to the fix they are in instead of being in a position to render them aid. And once they are slightly better off, they'll be in a position to upturn the apple cart for everyone!
1. Boil Rice for 15 mins on a hot stove
2. Serve with some Fava Beans and a nice Chianti
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
Explain, oh great sagely prophet, how all life on earth will end if we perform genetic engineering. Be sure to cite examples as how our engineering is different from natural genetic engineering, ie, mutation.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
It's just.... when you think in longterm. People are slowly destroying its mother earth. Not saying that modified rice will cause it :)
Pixel image editor - http://www.kanzelsberger.com
There's an Indian restaurant down the road that does nice stuff but the aftermath is horrendous! They should buy heaps of this stuff!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
So wait a minute, you're saying you don't have anything to prove that we're killing the earth, just that you've got this feeling? Sorta like how fundamentalist christians have a feeling that the rapture is around the corner? Explain how your beliefs are different from fundamentalist zealotry.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
This is another solution - vaccinate against the organisms that most often cause dysentary.
Not really. Vaccination is much more difficult than you imply, especially because the organisms that cause most of these diseases are bacteria and eukaryotes. Much harder to vaccinate against than viruses, and much less effective when you do design one that "works".
"In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -- Carl Sagan, Cosmos
I have a big issue with genetically engineered grains. All grains are wind pollinated. Pollen can travel quite far before fertilizing the female of a compatible plant species. Organic corn growers are already having big issues with this. You can't have heritage grains and pure strains when people are mucking around with wind pollenated plants.
I don't know how far they have tested this, but medicine and science has had several disasters with medications given to one generation and the disastrous results showing up in subsequent generations. Why can't we stick with things that humans evolved on and eliminate the crud like high fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated oils, genetically modified foods, olean, etc? Our bodies don't know what we're eating anymore.
---- I'm out of your mind!
Nice one speedy gonzales - does it really take you 30 minutes to write this trash.
Nah, im just kidding, your great...really.
"Everything tastes more or less like chicken."
The grass is always greener on the other side of the light cone.
soylent rice is people!
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore."
Meanwhile there are people - real, live people - people with thoughts, and feelings, and whose well-being you'd place at first-priority, whose well-being would be your tantamount concern, whose well-being would trump these silly goddamn over-analytical beardo quack ideas and "what ifs"
These people are not going to be helped with bioengineered rice. The problems in the third world are political chaos, war, lack of family planning, lack of education, religious fundamentalism, and others. Poverty, disease, high mortality, child labor, homelessness, and migration are symptoms of that. You can't fix the problems by treating the symptoms, and even if the first world made it its top priority to help the third world, it couldn't being to alleviate the suffering. The only way this is ever going to get fixed is to address the root problems.
Every dollar you invest in attempts at quick fixes like bioengineered rice is a dollar you aren't spending on fixing the fundamental problems. It's actually worse than that: if you give these people crutches like bioengineered rice, they're even less likely to do what's necessary to modernize their infrastructure, and you make them dependent on high-tech products and imports.
It's well-meaning idiots like you that focus on the short term and keep meddling in those societies (creating corruption and dependency in the process) that are responsible for a large part of the suffering in the third world. Europe and the US developed into modern societies with long life expectancies without such meddling, and these nations can and will as well if we give them access to world markets and let them compete and develop freely.
but in Africa believe it or not infant mortality from dehydration is very serious. They use cheap formula watered down with bad water to begin with, and then they get sick on top of that, which causes worse dehydration.
I hope this isn't news to anyone here.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
I have such feeling (and that's not only me) because people are doing a lot of things that are not natural to life on earth. Modifying vegetables, air pollution, melting artic ice, playing with nuclear power etc. You can't deny that... but of course it's not going to happen in our lives, will take maybe thousands of years.
Pixel image editor - http://www.kanzelsberger.com
Maybe I'm wrong... but I thougth theraputic insulin was either synthetic or from pigs.....
Cliff Claven
K.E.G. Party Chairman
Founding Leader of: Koncerned for Egalitarin Governance
With human genes in your rice, it's very possible.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
The United Nations? Surely you jest. They are the least likely to get into a region and fix the infrastructure let alone have any effect on the socio-political structures in place. If anything they will exaggerate the problem.
This leaves most of the real work to private organizations, the ones who have been doing the bulk of the charitable work in Africa and similar areas. Since most of them do not get government money they need solutions that work and work in conditions less than ideal. This is where enigneered food stuffs come into play.
Claiming water is the best way to hydrate people is like claiming a drowning man is going to be wet. Its a big "DUH" yet completely misses the point. This paticular rice is a solution where the obvious solution isn't practical or available at the time. Dry goods are many times easier to transport and store. What has to be done until the infrastructure is in place is to prevent as many complications as possible. Rice is a great medium. A little of it goes a long way.
The problem with saving many people of the world today is ignorance. While we like to pretend the leaders of these 3rd world countries are ignorant the bulk of the ignorance is here at home in the western world. The very same people who would harp about religious ignorance are the very same ones who fly off the handle at any foods that are engineered. They have little information, rely on innuendo and partial truths, and then use hyperbole and fear to make their point seem valid. Trouble is their ignorance kills people in the countries that can use the help.
Look, we can think good thoughts all we want. We can forever look for a better solution. Unfortunately most of these people don't have the time to wait and good thoughts don't keep them fed and healthy.
Whats next? Claiming that irradiated food is bad? How about the scare tactics that surrounded homoginizing? (sp?)
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Define "natural", please.
This comment does not exist.
Most insulin today is produced by genetically engineered bacteria carrying the gene for human insulin.
This comment does not exist.
Second, "economic equality" is impossible outside of complete communism (and even there, the "equality" is only for those not lucky enough to be in power). There will always be people who do better than others in any society that respects at least some degree of economic liberty.
Third, your "let them eat cake" approach really doesn't solve anything either. Fact is, there are places in the world (such as in developing countries) where disease is still common. Yes, they are working to modernize (hence the term 'developing'), but in the meantime something like this could actually save people's lives. And most people consider saving lives a good thing.
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
People in the developing world *would not* need to use formula to receive this:
"Earlier this month, a Peruvian scientist sponsored by Ventria presented data at the Pediatric Academics Societies meeting in San Francisco. It showed children hospitalized in Peru with serious diarrhea attacks recovered quicker -- 3.67 days versus 5.21 days -- if *the dehydration solution* they were fed contained the powder."
Now, maybe you consider feeding kids in hospitals dehydration solutions a Bad Thing(TM) too, but trying to equate this company with Nestle seems a bit stupid (i.e., par for the course for Slashdot).
>Ventria's rice produces two human proteins found in mother's milk
I always wondered where rice milk comes from. Now I know.
I, for one, welcome our new white overlords.
A community-oriented lyrics site
Natural for me means nothing else than normal nature behaviour. For example placing a road through rain forest is not natural. In overall all I wanted to say is that we're destroying nature everywhere around, that's it.
Pixel image editor - http://www.kanzelsberger.com
Soylent Rice
It's weird to see how 'ethics' is used as a cheap and easy excuse for not doing the right thing; how can it not be right to save the lives of children?
But of course, this is not about save the lives of poor children - it is just yet another way to earn money from the poor. If we really wanted to put an end to unnecessary suffering, it would be far more relevant to try ending poverty; it is after all not as if we in the western world couldn't it if we really wanted to.
However, there is a more sinister side to the debate about genetically modified plants: gene pollution. It works like this: you grow your modified plant, the bees (or wind) comes and takes pollen away, and some of it pollinates wild plants - or the neighbor farmer's unmodified crop.
In the first case wild plant species now carry the modification, and it may or may not pop up later in circumstances that are very unfortunate. In the second case the farmer's crop is suddenly 'illegal', because it now contains patented genes that he has not paid any ryalties for using.
Now that's the REAL ethical challenge when it comes to genetic modification.
selective breeding, cross-pollination, hybridization
air pollution, melting artic ice, playing with nuclear power
using fire
We are doing things to change our environment. We have caused the extinction of dozens (hundreds?) of species, and our changes will likely cause the extinction of many more. But the ecosystems will more likely adapt than get 'destroyed'. These changes are probably not good for most species, and probably not good for humans, but that's as far as I'm willing to go.
Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
In other words, you have no clue what you are talking about. Human beings are incapable of doing anything that isn't natural since humans are part of nature and everything we do is subject to the constraints of natural law. People modified plants by breeding long before genetic engineering techniques were available. Species are also drastically modified by evolutionary processes. So how does "modifying vegetables" kill the earth? In the past, there was no artic ice at all. Then later, there was a lot more arctic ice than today. So how does "melting artic ice" kill the earth? Before human beings existed, spontaneous uncontrolled fission reactions lasting thousands of years occurred in uranium ore deposits. So how is "playing with nuclear power" going to kill the earth?
Because it takes a lot less time/money to grow and transport rice to the affected areas than to establish an entire modern infrastructure in (and to) them. Ultimately that needs to be done too, but the rice is supposed to meet the more immediate critical needs. How is that bigoted? Your position on this is both arrogant and shortsighted.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Soon, it really is going to be Uncle Ben's rice!!!
I don't really want to flame here - I completely agree that human impact on many ecosystems is out of bounds, but pinning this down to terms like "natural" is not really helpful. Oh, and we do not have the slightest chance of destroying "mother earth", even if we unleashed all our nuclear potential at once. Nature will cope, evolution will go on. Destroying the basis of our civilization, or even ourselves as species, however, is very well in the realm of the possible.
As I said, you concerns are not completely unfounded - just try to put them into less mystic and more well-defined concepts next time.
This comment does not exist.
You're wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin#Timeline
"Human insulin is now manufactured for widespread clinical use using genetic engineering techniques, which significantly reduces impurity reaction problems. Eli Lilly marketed the first such insulin, Humulin, in 1982. Humulin was the first medication produced using modern genetic engineering techniques, in which actual human DNA is inserted into a host cell (E. coli in this case). The host cells are then allowed to grow and reproduce normally, and due to the inserted human DNA, they produce actual human insulin.
Genentech developed the technique Lilly used to produce Humulin. Novo Nordisk has also developed a genetically engineered insulin independently. Most insulins used clinically are produced this way, for they avoid most of the allergic reaction problem."
Ventria's rice produces two human proteins found in mother's milk, saliva and tears
So its made from German porn?
This cartoon shows what this does to your family tree. http://www.unripe.com/pages/cartoon%2016%20family% 20tree.html
Does it really matter when 90% of people are happier not knowing, and will fight to stay that way?
We protect people from the "horrible truth" all the time. You should see the looks on people's faces when I tell them how the meat industry tenderizes steak.
I have no problem with it, still tastes good to me. In the same line of thinking, I don't care how the rice produced these proteins, so long as no humans are harmed in the process.
FreeBSD: The Power to Serve!
"What ifs? Is that meant to be imply some negative connotation to perfectly reasonable and serious concerns?"
No, but the concerns mentioned aren't reasonable or serious, they're idiotic and ridiculous.
And I will happily denounce idiotic and ridiculous postulations with no hesitation.
Well, no, you THINK genetic engineering will be the end of things. I, however, have the opposite view. The technology is in it's infancy right now, but I feel that it will be the future. I believe the next step in human evolution is technology, and our ability to use it to effect change upon ourselves. But, I could be wrong. It could be the end of the world. Only time will tell.
Really, this has already been done before. A company called 'Monsanto' (too lazy to look up a link), has been making genetically modified foods for years now. They also happen to make Roundup-brand weed killers (and pesticides, too).
Their crops are engineered to be resistant to the Roundup products; specifically, they bill them as 'Roundup-ready'. They have also been attempting off and on to engineer crops that do not produce reusable seeds -- in other words, farmers who buy these crops cannot harvest part of them to use to plant again next year, they'll have to buy them new every season.
Once you get past the idea of the corporations using genetic engineering to fleece us (surprise), putting human genes in a plant is no different than putting the genes that produce ampicillin into a bacterial plasmid (or human insulin, so on).
The problem is that the public is basically ignorant of the mechanics behind it. Especially with rice, the chance that this is going to manage to spread outside these crops is very, very remote -- and certainly not to other things, like wheat or corn. I will be the first to say that nobody ever seems to want to do long-term trials of this stuff before releasing it, which I think is sorely needed, but once again, leave it to the media to sensationalize anything.
Just slap 'bio engineered' and 'human genes' into the same headline, and the conservatives will be screaming (probably the liberals too, as a matter of fact).
If firefighters fight fire, and crimefighters fight crime, what do freedom fighters fight? - George Carlin
Well. Said. And better than I put it. I think I was still oxygen-deprived from my laugh at the statement about /. debate being just the same as academic discourse, so I sorta bungled my reply to this statement of the Parent. I meant to make clear that kenzels asked himself/herself "what if... this all goes wrong", then formed an elaborate delusion that left with him/her weeping for the world - instead it reads like there's an actual rhetorical "what if" in his/her post. Sigh.
:-D
I shouldn't bother with this "his/her" stuff - this is Slashdot, after all. What's a "her", anyway?
But anyway. Yeah. Well, well said. I only hope someone comes up with a postulation for you to denounce.
Ventria Rice is PEOPLE!!!
-
Soylent Green is PEOPLE! /Obligatory
Windows has detected an undetectable error.
So when I eat this rice I'm really drinking someone's mother's milk? Eww!
That was one of the best posts I've read in a long time. I normally refrain from contentless "mod parent up" posts, but I'll break my rule here.
Sadly, I don't get mod points anymore (apparently somebody didn't like my moderations too much), but if I did, you'd have gotten some.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Cauliflowers make great brains for frankenstein foods.
To err is human. To forgive is not company policy.
In developing countries, now you don't send out for rice -- rice sends out for you!
- For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
Hey man, you're right, we should just stand idly by while millions of children die. Why didn't we think of this solution before?!?
there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
Tell you what, when you find a "Just, Equal, Competitive Free-market Capitalist Society", let me know and we shall see if you're right...
Can we get these genes into beer? It would make my Sunday mornings so much more pleasant.
It's not just clean water, though that is a big piece of the pie. My parents spent 18 months in Mozambique doing missionary work. Diarrhea kills a LOT of children there. The important part is where it starts. In Mozambique, they don't have effective (or any) mosquito control programs. Nor do they have much access to anti-malarial drugs. As cheap as anti-malarials are, they cost too much for most of the population. Then you have to add to the problem that the hospitals don't have adequate equipment to sterilize everything, so it gets soap and water cleaning.
The best example I have is the story my dad told me about the security guard at the church (yes 24x7 security or everything would be stolen). This man's 2 year old daughter got malaria from a mosquito bite. The resulting diarrhea made him desperate enough to take her to the hospital. The IV of fluids she got helped, but she died shortly after from the staph infection she got from the needle.
When my parents went to her funeral, they were SHOCKED at the size of the cemetary. It was for children only. Dad said he'd never seen such a huge cemetary - it was 5 miles across. Every grave marker had a number on it. The marker for the little girl they were there to bury was #278,xxx. That is a LOT of children.
I don't remember the exact statistics my dad quoted me, but something like half of all children in Mozambique die by the age of 5. It would be even easier to provide mosquito control pesticides (which work quite well next door in South Africa, no anti-malarials needed), and the cheap anti-malarial drugs in bulk.
I'm no expert, but I'm a parent. I really feel for the people in these countries. It wouldn't take much to improve their situation dramatically. The other side of that coin is the rampant corruption in most African nations, which is a big stumbling block to getting aid to the people. That's a subject for another day though.
...
...
Soylent Rice IS *People*!!!
At what point does it become cannabalism? Eating your nails? Blow job swallowing? Swapping saliva? Eating rice with 2 genes? How about rice with 20 or 200? Why grow the rice when we can just screw and make people directly and eat the meat?
All DNA is fundamentally the same. This just happens to be a base sequence that causes the creation of proteins usually produced by the human body rather than traditional rat, cow, slug, corn, or eveen rice proteins. Can someone explain _why_ this is going to cause the end of the world? Are people aware that it's standard practice to replace, for example, e coli base sequences with human ones so that the bacteria produce human proteins?
I'm appalled at the level of unscientific FUD that is out there. If slashdotters don't think scientifically, what will the general public do? Ban DHMO (http://www.dhmo.org/)?
You don't need religion to let a book tell you what to eat. (over 7000 hits on a single chapters search).
People eating people, for the sake of the children...
Nothing to see here. Move along.
We don't need to save children in the undeveloped world. We need them to die. There's too many of them, and we're seeing the results of overpopulation. Oh, yes, I am a big meanie. It's true - if I were them, I'd feel differently - and maybe the undeveloped world will have the last laugh when we run out of oil.
Of course, if I were employed to dream up nightmare conspiracy theories, I might come up with one that the reason why the industrialized world is sending all this free food & medecine to the undeveloped world is to wean them off of their own methods of production, however weak they are, and make them dependant on us (slashdot users? no. I mean the industrial world). Once that has happened, they can be controlled by threats of removing that food. Or, even better, we just pull the plug, wait a year for the corpses to rot, and move on in and build Starbucks and "green" housing, and "restore the jungle".
Indeed. Pigs and humans share 80% of their genes. Apple trees and humans share more than 50% of their genes.
I'm sorry, the number you have dialed is an imaginary number. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and dial again.
Ethically though, we're giving people in the third world food with human genes in them.
It's Africa. They're already cannibals. This should make the rice more appealling;-)
Thanks to the internet, we can now all die alone together! -SomeWoman
...the "latest"?
Here I thought it had been around since the 1980s (in name, at least). Surely there have been plenty of bad ideas that blah blah good at the time since then?
Anyway, I'm very glad you learned how to be patronizing and condescending. I'm sure it makes you the life of the Mad Cow conventions.
How well will this be received? Will people who eat rice avoid it? There's a lot of vegetarians out there, will this altered rice be considered valid vegetarian or is it now tainted with animal kingdom DNA and they will refuse it?
The biggest block to this ever reaching third world countries is GreenPeace and the like. http://www.aworldconnected.org/article.php/934.htm l "Unfortunately, thanks to anti-biotechnology activists, the rice is still not available to those who need it. And even if it were, these unfortunate children would probably still go without. Activists would likely reprise their 2002 tactics, which convinced Zambia's government to reject 26,000 tons of US corn that had been sent as food-aid because some of it was genetically modified (GM)"
We are all just people.
From the article the chance of its genetically engineered rice ending up in the food supply is remote because the company grinds the rice and extracts the protein before shipping.
There is no way that ecological activists would ever let this product get out on the market if they got wind that the company was going to allow people to grow it themselves.
I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
Speaking of "arrogant and short-sighted"....
/. even bothers to provide links to the articles is beyond me. It's easy to see how urban legends get started, and how fanatics can start paranoid panics and protest movements based on no information.
Jeebus, please! The article is only a few paragraphs long.
They are processing the rice into a POWDER form which acts as a medicine and/or nutritional supplement ("nutriceutical").
They are NOT transporting rice.
Third-world farmers are NOT unable to grow the rice because it's sterilized, they're unable to grow it because it's NOT RICE -- it's a powder; it's a medicine.
Why
indeed, the only realistic solution I could see is a new kind of "colonizing" of those parts of the world, not to plunder their wealth or have them work for us, but their governments really need to be eliminated (and yes I'm basically talking about bombs and bullets in the head), just so the aid could get there. There's totally self-serving reasons we could do this, after all, many of the horrible diseases we fear, like AIDS and flesh-eating diseases, come from impoverished places.
Interesting fact: 60% of genes are conserved between a fly and a human. They share a "core set" of genes, meaning they code for the same proteins, etc. Between humans and cows, it's probably even more, considering how much closer evolutionarily cows are to humans compared to flys.
That being said, the poster who mentioned insulin brings up an interesting point. Using "human" genes (and you know, I'm sure there is some animal, or many even, that share our gene coding for insulin, which is used for blood sugar homeostasis), can help people, like diabetics. There certainly are ethical boundaries that should not be crossed, many ethical questions that must be answered, but this is true with many things. Should we splice the atom? Should organic farmers use weeding methods detrimental to their workers instead of herbicides? Should we continue using conventional farming techniques that hurt the earth? Should we genetically engineer corn to make it's own pesticides to increase yields and feed more people even though we don't fully know the environmental consequences? A doctor has two patients that will die on him, and he has to chose one to operate on. Which should he save?
Furthermore, to the poster who mentioned that the root of the issues aren't being addressed. While bioengineering food may not address the root of the issue, how do you expect biologists/genetecists/researchers to address these issues? Unless these people become politicians or human rights advocates, they can't do anything. Bioengineering is their SPECIALTY, and it is what they can do to help others. Politics should be left to the politicians (and those of those in the US need to write to our senators, etc).
Admittedly, some of these people are working for companys like Ventria or Monsanto, and their intentions may be less than wholesome, but you have people like Ingo Potrykus and his Golden Rice II, now making enough vitamin A (about 2 servings of rice a day) to help those who have vitamin A deficiency in lesser developed nations. You have people at public universities, who in the US receive intellecual proprietary control over their products, working to solve these problems without looking for profit like Monsanto, and you have organizations like PIPRA trying to organize the public sector to rival the private sector.
Honestly, I believe our opinions tend to be too black and white. This is wrong, therefore it shouldn't be done, and that's write, we HAVE to do that. I don't think anything is so clear cut, and that answers lie in between. We're going to need some GE, and we're going to need some politics, and we're going to need some good old grass roots movements to motivate the government, etc.
The company is manufacturing a drug (which they want classified as a "medical food" for FDA purposes) by tweaking the genes of a rice plant. The rice is ground up to make the "medical food."
The big controversy here (per the article) is growing this stuff out in the open where it could potentially cross-polinate or otherwise impact rice crops intended for food.
The rice itself isn't to be used as food. It's just a big open-air drug factory.
The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
This is going to sound cruel but, we don't need any more people on the planet. Especially, the weakest people who nature would have killed off anyways. We are really throwing a monkey's wrench into the evolutionary machine, with saving the world's weakest people and allowing them to further breed. Go ahead and mod this down for being "racist"
"If half of this funding was given to a country in the developing world..." it would disappear into thin air, as has happened time and time again.
Rice is people!
How much do you want to make a bet that if millions of rich white children in North America and Europe were dying of diarrhea, that there wouldn't be any sort of controversy or "ethical debate" about this technology? Not only would it be widely accepted, we would probably have government regulation that would REQUIRE it!!!
It is so nice to be part of the richest 1/5 of the worlds population that can make some decision on some knee-jerk hippie bullshit, force it on the rest of the world, and then claim the moral high-ground as a "progressive" or "bio-ethicist" when millions of people could be saved.
"organic" food is all the rage in the first world, because in a consumer society when luxury goods can be mass-produced for the common man, labor intensive and and supply-volatile goods are the last remaining form of conspicuous consumption. Avoiding "GM" foods, or buying "Fair Trade" coffee, or whatever, is now the way to show your higher social class. Bougiouse class posturing is pretending to be some sort of "progressive" "globally conscious" movement, when we are really just telling the third world "eat cake"!
We have been putting little bits of genes into all manner of stuff for years. The possible outcome of stopping diarrea without access to Immodium (TM) is impressive though.
However, I'll only really be shocked when my rice starts begging for mercy.
Soylent Rice is people!!!
If you want to make things a bit more solid use the BRAT diet. Bananas, Rice, Apples, Toast. Any combo of those will do the trick.
Timing is everything
Look at it this way: You're a two year old. I'm the wise old grandmother who babysits you.
That's typical parochial Western bullshit. People in developing nations aren't two year olds and you aren't their wise old grandmother.
Are you saying that nobody should give bio-genetics firms any money, because it's just a waste?
I'm saying that people should concentrate on those things that we know increase life expectancy the most, like building sewers. On the other hand, selling proprietary US crops to these nations makes the primary problem worse: poverty.
Furthermore, we know that nations can develop without "bio-genetics", 20th century medicine, or high tech because almost all nations that are prosperous today have done so.
Bioengineering is dangerous because of unintended consequenses. A lot of times the food proves safe but it takes a lot of time to arrive at that conclusion.
Besides Oral Rehydrations Salts already provide an effective and inexpensive treatment for the problem. Many Humanitarian organizations like UNICEF already use them extensively.
I said nutbag environmentalists. You know, a subset?
FC Closer
Storm
Heck, two hundred years back, most newborns died before reaching maturity. Perhaps we shouldn't have bothered with all this foolish developing of medical science?
So-called champions of evolutionary theory who think that human activity is somehow beyond the scope of nature, (that it's even possible to throw in a monkey wrench), are a combination of myopic, blithely thoughtless, and generally ignorant. --The very same thinking which once lead to eugenics and gas chambers.
So either you're stupid or you're evil.
Take your pick. And then please do make an effort to grow your mind beyond the boundaries of high school philosophy. We saved your pathetic life, after all. You owe us.
-FL
So, if a Caucasian impregnated her, would the act have been white on rice?
If she took the fetus to term/delivery, would it be brown rice or "dirty rice" (think ethnic foods...)
And, I happened to have a high school schoolmate named "Gene Rice"... The things technology can do with/to names...
And, for a REALLY tacky one, I'd hate to be the admin official to advocate dropping EMP or grid-killing devices over Zulus... That would be REAL shocka-zulu
(Ducks for flying chairs, ordnance, taser darts...)
LOL slash image word: accords
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
And now, the poor farmer has to buy this GM crap, he has 5 times more kids than he ever can feed
Farmers can prevent that, you know. It's called keeping the snake in its cage.
Then what do we do when they continue to have 15 children each
Taking away the tax deduction for children 4-15 will help men put the dcik down. It could be worse (China and its one child policy).
What's the difference between rice and pigs? Just because pigs are autonomous and have brains?
Yes. Over 1,650 biblical years passed between when Adam was granted dominion over Plantae and when Noah was granted dominion over Animalia.
if GM crops are so substantially identical to the originals tha no labeling is needed when they sneak them into my food, how is it that they are at the same time unique enough to be deserving of patents?
For the same reason that water purified by a patented process may not need the process disclosed on the label.
Going back and reading it, I have verified that Bush vowed to eliminate ANIMAL/human hybrids, and said nothing about hybrids with NON-animals. Ha! Those clever scientists have figured out a way to snub him once again. Of course, we'll be sorry we ignored his warnings when, someday, we're all enslaved by a race of self-harvesting "ricemen".
First of all, I don't "take this personal" (Nice grammar btw. What are you? A hillbilly Nazi?)
Secondly, yes actually, you damned bone-head; Nazi eugenics theory was formed on exactly the same dumb ideas you espouse, so I don't see any inaccuracies on my part.
Third, I didn't see you contest that you defeated infection as a child through the use of anti-biotics. If you did, it means that YOU used medical science to overcome 'Nature', and probably should, by your own terms, have been cleansed from this Earth by fever, strep throat, the common cold, or whatever. Except. . , let me re-read your half-baked little response. . , you do think that medical science is a good idea. So what then? Only when it applies to you and not the third world? I guess you can't see the inconsistencies in your own logic. No surprise there.
If we allowed nature to run it's course, eventually we would have weeded out all children who are susceptible to this form of disease and we would remain with a healthier population in general.
That's right. You wouldn't be here. But we didn't let 'nature run its course'. We gave you a chance to live and experience life in this world because this world is capable of sustaining you, there's no reason not to let you stick around, hillbilly grammar and cold-blooded ignorance and all. --However, if things tighten up, I'm sure you'll find yourself dying quietly somewhere. Nature can take its course without any pre-emptive help from the damned Nazis.
Is it fair for society to have to absorb the costs of another un-fit, unproductive citizen? Whether you like it or not, every sick person who is not producing something, drains society.
You mean like your grandparents?
Newsflash: There's plenty of healthy people draining society far more effectively than those who are not 'producing something'. --We've got Bush and his cronies along with the a-holes at Enron and similar jack-asses doing infinitely more damage to society and the world than your ailing mother, (who I'm sure you'd be happy to put down for the good of mankind).
Your thinking is overly-simple and deeply flawed.
-FL
I'd like to know what the long term effects of this material will be - every action in a human body has a counter-action or regulating action of some type. Production of protein X is regulated by presence of enzyme Y, both of which have a non-trivial effect on production of "unrelated" protein Z.
What happens in rice when these proteins are produced? Does it alter the chemistry of the rice significantly? Does it boost levels of some chemicals that we didn't regard as important up until now? What happens when we introduce these enriched chemicals into the human body? The immediate effect is to increase the rate of absorption of water, but what else will happen without the usual regulators or counter reactions? Are we going to see increases levels of calcification of bone, tumour in brains and damage to optic nerves?
If you boost the caffeine and sugar levels of the body, the body responds by lowering its own energy production. Then the caffeine wears off and the sugar is metabolised, leaving the person feeling tired. If you introduce too much of this milk protein into the body, what similar effect will it have on the human?
What will happen to the rice when these genes mutate? This generation of rice produces human milk proteins, will the next generation produce poison?
Props!
Aw crap, ninjas!
There's a difference between insulting somebody and stating the obvious. If you don't like the obvious being stated about you, you might try changing yourself.
-FL