Slashdot Mirror
Is World of Warcraft More Than Just A Game?
walnutmon writes "Newsweek has published a three page article asking whether World of Warcraft is more than just a game. Though some spend their time in WoW grinding, others take a break from the monotony of gaming to interact with others from the community in a meaningful way. From the article: 'Generally, though, players of the game enjoy a form of community rarely seen in the real world; higher-level players go out of their way to tutor newbies and accompany them on quests. Deep friendships are forged. Relationships begin that flower into marriage, with Tauren brides and Undead grooms tying the knot in some virtual tavern in Thunder Bluff.' I guess the question is, does a game become more when people do more than play to win, or is this just an added feature?" Raph Koster has been of the opinion, for quite some time now, that all MMOGs are virtual worlds; it just so happens you can play a game inside many of them. What's your view on this? Are Massive games just another kind of game title, or are they something special?
Games like WoW have always fostered a feeling of community. Even back in the Dungeons and Dragons days (which live on for many of us) the games offered a feeling of belonging. The difference is a matter of scale. Wow is so massive that this community is much larger, more multifaceted, and has more sub-communities.
Information wants a fueled airplane waiting at the hangar and no one gets hurt.
No matter how badly some people wish it weren't.
What's the total number of people playing WoW? What's the population of Earth?
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreality
There is some degree of community in other games, but not in WoW. Unless you consider Chuck Norris jokes community.
that happens to be addictive as hell to some people.. But it is still just a game. Personally I stay the hell away from those sorts of games the same way I avoid crack cocaine and heroin.. Heroin users have a community too. I always used to listen to them talk on the bus in the morning till they all got off at the methadone clinic. Seemed like nice people, but I don't want to join their community.
Yes it creates community, but are they real friendships? Do they share anything in common other than WoW? I have a lot of friends who play WoW (I do not). It's unspeakably annoying to be at a party with a critical mass of these people, because all they talk about is WoW.
I've had to institute a no-WoW rule for some gatherings, since it's simply too annoying for the small number of us who don't play WoW to be excluded from having conversations with these people who are theorhetically our friends because they don't talk about anything else for hours on end.
WoW seems cool, but seriously, try talking to your WoW friends about something other than WoW and see if you would still be their friend without it.
MUDs (precursors to mmorpgs) have noticed this for a long time. The game is cool, and it is what draws people, but the relationships and community is what causes people to stay. This logically leads to stuff like MUD meets (players going to somewhere and hanging out for a few days) and even an occasionally marriage. I'm serious; I know no less than two couples who met in a MUD and ended up getting married.
DYWYPI?
**'Generally, though, players of the game enjoy a form of community rarely seen in the real world; higher-level players go out of their way to tutor newbies and accompany them on quests. Deep friendships are forged. Relationships begin....**
Its pretty conceited to think that only WoW would have a 'community' feeling to it... I call BS, not because I think WoW or other online gaming communities deserve being called BS, but because the story is BS. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of real world places and activities (not that slashdot readers or WoW players would know about real world) to find community experience, and develop relationships through a common interest.... fer christsakes, that is what the world did BEFORE the Internet....
All I can say is that it MUST be a slow news day... geez!
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
Yes, WoW has a tight community, but I don't think many replace their lives with it. Once large enough people are able to quit their jobs to be fully immersed in World of Warcraft (or any other online RPG) and still somehow sustain their real-life bodies and pay the monthly fees, then it'll be a true virtual world.
If that day ever comes, that'll be mighty interesting... The Matrix, anyone?
I'm going to get out of this place alive, even if it kills me!
gee sounds like Star Trek conventions, weekend D&D games, long time IRC channels, Scout Troops, etc. Second life has been doing the same thing without the pesky gaming elements. Nothing special to see here folks...and yes in the end its just a game.
Why care? Life itself can be considered a game, with it's risk and rewards. In playing an online game it can affect your real feelings/moods (happy you're winning sad you're losingb .. hopeful of winning etc) and other stuff.
However spening time wondering if something is a game probably isnt the most efficient use of time because in the end all you've contributed is an understanding of a definition.
I wasted my time on this to prevent you suckaz from doing so. And that may turn out to be of use.
I play games to win.. to crush others and gain respect. Single player games can be beaten.. MMORPGs cannot be 'won' and they have no ending.
I got hooked on Shadowbane more than once in my college career. It's an mmorpg like wow where you just go around killing everyone pretty much (and you can knock down their cities too). It took a long time.. but eventually I had all the best gear for my character. Then I made a new character and got into the politics for the game. So eventually I ran a city.. then I ran a guild.. then I ran a whole entire alliance of guilds that comprised of half the server. Then I got burned out.. I must've played 14 hours a day at that point. I would go without food for hours until I was certain my alliance could function for 30 seconds without me.
So you'd think after all that I'd learn my lesson? No.
I went back into Shadowbane.. because it gave me a sense of accomplishment. Every day, I could find something new, kill someone new, find a new unique viable character build, etc. There is ALWAYS something new to do in an mmorpg. No matter what, you have NOT seen everything. I must've made over 40 max-level characters with the best possible gear. Granted, it only took about 20 hours of game play to get a character to max level once you were good at it - but still it was WAYY too much of a commitment. I began to think of 4-hour game-play blocks as expendable time. Now that I have an 8-5 job, I realize how ridiculous it is to just say "hey.. I can blow the next 4 hours helping a friend get XXX potion to make YYY item."
I'm glad I learned my lesson with just one mmorpg. I think I put multiple college degrees worth of effort into that game.
That game was seriously crack for me. When I was 'addicted' to it, I couldn't imagine my life without it. It depressed me to think of quitting that game.
So ya.. MMORPGs, imo, are more than just a game. WoW just happens to be about the gayest of mmorpgs one can get addicted to - but it still has all the addictive qualities of any mmorpg. If you can't beat it, DON'T PLAY IT (otherwise, you join it.)
--- We need more Ron Paul!
"As Hiro approaches the Street, he sees two young couples, probably using their parents' computers for a double date in the Metaverse, climbing down out of Port Zero, which is the local port of entry and monorail stop. He is not seeing real people, of course. This is all a part of the moving illustration drawn by his computer according to the specifications coming down the fiber-optic cable. The people are pieces of software called avatars."
-Neal Stephenson
The real culprit of WoW's success is depression, in all it's varied forms. WoW represents the ultimate in escapism. Whereas before some of us used books, or even computer games, here's a world that changes based on the player and those playing.
There is never really an end to the world like there would be in a book, or a game. Therefore, those trying to escape find the perfect place to escape to; A place that never really ends.
This goes a long way in explaining the attitude when the servers would go down often ( do they still? ).
I'm not saying this is how it is for everyone, or it's the same level of escapism for everyone. Just that the majority of the addicts are depressed in one way or another, and this is their way to escape from it.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
To Start this off, I'm going to state that I played WoW for well over a year and a half, From release to just two months ago. I've been a Raiding member in good standing on Malygos throughout the time I played. Yes, wow does foster a huge sense of community, Yes, it does form relationships. Indeed, I know of THREE couples who met, engaged, and married during the course of playing together. (this taken from my ingame relations with... say 200 people on a semi-regular basis) However... Every person I know of who quit seems grateful that they did so, Acting as if they finally kicked some long drug habit, or Finally escaped from some prison. Mind you, I come from the raid game, but there are those who would say that is the entirety of WoW. Take a second and ask yourself why would they be grateful they have quit? geh. the Game is addictive, in the same sense that having a weekly game of pool is addictive. You make excuses to other people IRL to excuse the fact that you can't do anything from 6pm to 10pm mon, tues, thurs, sat, sun. (etc, your raids may very) This is why I think that many people are grateful they quit, and it's the reason I am grateful of such. It gives a sense of freedom from the scheduling of one's time. People will argue, rightfully so, that people schedule thier time for leasure and all sorts of other reasons.. But I think the situation is kinda different when you're trying not to let 40 other people down. ;p
Don't Take this post wrong please. While I am grateful I quit, I met a great bunch of people while i did play, and can actually comfortably say that if I were to end up with just my clothes on my back in any number of about two dozen cities across north america (and one aussie city) I could find a friend that I made in game who'd be nice enough to let me crash there. So that's nice. I've also had my fair share of good memories with friends, Drunk in Strat, or just trying to push the envelope in PvP. the game has and does create a strong community, but it has it's downsides for sure.
more than just a game
WoW is a game?
I have five sixties that can easily prove otherwise.
Have you read my journal today?
Are Massive games just another kind of game title, or are they something special?
What I think is ironic is that people play these games to escape the mundanity of everyday life; the boring, daily grind. And yet, a huge part of a lot of these games is just that, repetitive mundanity that's no different than the world already around us, save for the exotic window dressing and some fancy costumes.
Anyone who's been on second life for five minutes can see that... in a game with limitless possibilities and potential, what do you get? a distilled, amplified re-creation of our own superficial consumer culture.
Push Button, Receive Bacon
The WoW community is far more inclusive than the D&D community. I don't think it's necessarily the core people of the community that make it like that, but merely the differences in the stigma and reputation associated with each.
Let's face it, D&D players are looked down upon by most other people. I'm sure we've all seen scenes in malls, at D&D shops, where a group of teenage jocks or punks start yelling at the customers and employees of such stores. They'll call them a variety of names, from "nerds" to "dungeon geeks", and even "cocksmoking faggots" in some extreme cases. Most of the time the D&D people will remain mature, and ignore the comments. I was with my son, who is slightly nerdy, the last time I saw a scene like that. He even quietly agreed with the harassers. D&D players are sometimes looked down upon by fellow nerds. I really don't know why, but that's just how it is.
WoW, on the other hand, has a far more widespread acceptance. Perhaps it is because it is seen by many as just another computer game. Even those traditionally against D&D have come to play WoW, and have enjoyed it. So if you admit to being a WoW player, you're typically not looked down upon. It's not seen as an abnormal activity, "reserved" for socially-untalented nerds and geeks.
No.
It's poetry with a beat behind it! And guns! They're like beatniks with automatic weapons.
WoW is a feeling.
(http://www.purepwnage.com/)
Windows has detected an undetectable error.
If you are looking for community ATITD would be the game to play if you like to socialize over adventure, EvE if you are into sci-fi and PvP. Just to name few mmogs that have wastly superior 'community' aspect than WoW - old NWN, UO, M59, AC, ATITD, EvE, SB. If anything WoW lacks in player interaction and community when compared to other games in its genre due to heavy use of instances and hard segregation by levels. Best communities are usually formed in games where players need to rely on others for protection from common enemy, trade or achievement of in-game goals. In WoW, aside from grouping, you don't ever need anything from other players. Simple fact that you can reach maximum level without speaking a single world to others demonstrate that community and player interaction is not a strong point of WoW. I find it fairly annoying that WoW given credit for many things its not good at just because its so large and people notice/know about it.
Actually, I've never met a WoW player who fits your given description. Ie, the people I've known about IRL who play the game show no signs of depression. Neither have the people I ran into online while I was still playing it myself. Nor have I seen any compelling evidence to support such a sweeping generalization. And yes, I do know people who suffer from actual clinical depression, so I do have a fairly good picture of what that mental state entails.
There may be a certain type of gaming addict who fits the description you give. But I think they're a tiny, tiny minority. Perhaps you know somone like this yourself? If so, I suspect you're projecting their mental state to the rest of the gaming population.
And I suspect the mentally healthy majority playing WoW would take exception to your statement that depression is what really motivates them.
Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
People have been building communities around games for quite some time - from play by mail games to play in real life (such as chess and bridge) to role playing (such as Chainmail and D&D); all without computers. They had factions, newsletters, magazines, romances, leaders, etc. - which mirrored "real life." Not that that was restricted to games - look at any hobby and you'll see similar social constructs. All that the computer did was expand the ease of reach - no more waiting for mail or conventions to "see' old friends.
It's somewhat amusing to think that computers and the internet somehow is creating new "stuff" that has never been before seen; when often all it does is increase accessibility.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
I know 3 people who dropped out of high school their junior year (one does night school, other does nothing) to get more playing time for this game. I bet there are a lot more out there.
reminds me of this tv commercial!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fL02sr6g_4
"In 20 or 30 years the technology will be here to create incredibly more realistic and immersive worlds," he says. "There will be a world that fits the fantasy of any life you want to lead." Those deep into WOW, of course, are already living that future. "Yes, it's just a game," says Joi Ito. "The way that the real world is a game."
.When competition for resources gets harsher what mmmorrpg addict will have to show for it? Their ubah leet lvl capped characters in epic gear? Their skills of killing brainless mobs? -guess what those are all irrelevant skills in RL.
In 20-30 years those deep into crack like WoW will have no influence on the real world whatsoever. There are still real life tangible resources (energy for example) and living in virtual world will not make you exempt from basic laws of physics and biology
Before everyone goes "duh", all I want to do is relate what happened to two of my friends. The first was less serious, he just played way too much and lost out on social interaction, lost some friends in the process. Got out of playing it when he realised it got really bad. He seems pretty well-adjusted now. The second one was more extreme. According to his own account, he ran whenever he could on the way home. Office to train station, and after the train ride, ran home from the train station so he could get more playing time. Sleep was given just enough time to recuperate, and he neglected his fiancee. He didn't tell me what triggered him to stop, but when he did, he not only gave up his character, he also deleted from his IM contact lists all those people whom he played WoW with, completely cutting himself off from the community. I've ever come into contact with recuperating heroin drug addicts, and the one thing that always gets recalcitrants back into it is contact with those who still take it. Couldn't help but notice that his recovery method resembled that of a heroin addict. I've never played WoW myself, but it'll be interesting if anyone here has heard of similar addictions and could relate them.
But there is also a sense of community while you are playing. every server has atleast one person that is controversal. It is just like a regular community in that respect, there will always be an outcast. Usually in WoW that is the one person that is seeking attention from the general populace. There will alwya be a sense of community because you are playing with other people, and hopefully having fun.
Ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies
it is less than a game, move along
I would like to add my 2 cents here, many people have valid points about the unsociable nature of online game players and have proposed a challenge to these people to have somthing in common with you... this is to establish if these people would still be your friends. this is to say nothing of the depth of frindship in general and quite judgemental. I agree that online personas are different but they are just that, it is up to the people involved to make more or less of the 'online aquatiance'. I meet people everyday and they are no better or worse then people that i have met online or have bought things from on ebay or left postings for on craigs list. I also agree that it is a little awkward when people are talking WoW shop and i only have a vauge idea of what they are saying but i make the same effort to join the conversation as i do with people who have different offline hobbies. generalizations may be faster and sometimes right but that does not make them any different then any other prejudice. In closing... i do not play WoW, i have tried it for a few hours... i have had a few friends whos lives revolve around it, it does not bother me... if people want to spend there time online then let them there is a great difference between an avid gamer and somone with "interenet syndrome"... and at last maybe it is better that you are friends (even superficially) with somone who you would not be friends with because underr normal circomstances i.e. age, race, or gender.
damn it if there's one more WoW article this month I'm gonna go insane.
what the fug is up with the wow facination?
If MMORPGs like WOW, EQ or DAoC get people riled up like this guy it's hard to argue otherwise.. ;)
And when you gaze long enough into the code, the code will also gaze into you.
That's modded funny and I laughed, but there is an insightfulness to it without a doubt. I won't touch any game where I read people talking about "virtual worlds", community, and spending massive hours a day playing it months on end. Real life is too important to risk losing touch with it on a game.
Shit, I have to be careful with freeciv as it is. WOW would lead to a divorce and the failure of my businesses.
..the male characters wouldn't look so hideously ugly.
Though that's finally being fixed with the blood elves, thankfully.
Not when a server upgrade wipes your buddy list -_-
It's an audio file that hasn't really been adjusted for volume, so tune down your speakers (especially when you're at work =)
And when you gaze long enough into the code, the code will also gaze into you.
Everquest, Ultima Online, Meridian 59, Realms Online. THOSE were more than "just a game" in fact, the game was kinda secondary for those MMORPGS. Those were all about immersion and interaction (though Everquest went downhill after Planes of Power). Now ALL MMOs are just games.
It's not a community... it's a series of tubes.
Go into any MMORPG that is developed enough to have a Guild system and you will see a full on society.
There's politics, currency, responsibilities, governments, charters, social contracts, friends going on outings, etc. IThey're nothing short of microcosms of societies that bring out different characters or enhance the characters of real life people.
An example: I'm an EQ addict. I belong to a "family guild" (a guild who doesn't want the focus of their organization to be raid "work" on a nightly basis) who is party of an alliance of "family guilds" whose joint efforts are to do "raiding guild" things. Consider it neighborhoods banding together for a common goal.
Recently, scandal arose when a full-on raiding guild engaged a target that belonged to the alliance. One of our alliance members, very angered, ensured that the target would be unkillable by the raiding guild force and thus brought severe shame on the alliance. Our member, after a "town hall meeting" in the forums, has chosen to disband from his guild and thus the alliance, while his guild decides what's to be done.
Furthermore, some are questioning the value of our raid leader and there is mumbling about asking him to step down.
Friends leave guilds. Guildies left behind are saddened. When a guild who enjoys its members witty banter and opinions disbands, people are actually sad.
People are social animals -- social meaning they require communication. These MMORPGS are 10% game, 90% communication. That's what sucks people in and that's why MMOs are closer to virtual political bodies than checkers and tic-tac-toe.
i have wow and its just a dammed game. but its true alot of people seem to play it way to mutch. sence i work have a life and a gf i dont spend alot of time on it at all. but even my gf plays wow no i didnt meet her there but she did get me to buy a copy so i could play with her.
Playing, sure. Reading Slashdot while playing, hell no. That would ruin the Slashdot experience.
but it isn't. Sure, if you're without a job, overweight and can't handle social situations you will tell everyone how WoW is like real life. How it's one huge community of friends and what not. But it isn't and the moment the server goes down you are left alone in your dark room, trying to remember where you hid that porn you haven't looked at for a long time.
I've had plenty of people try to convince me how WoW is the new level of social interaction, but there's no "real" social interaction in the first place. You don't automatically _know_ people just because you happen to raid with them every thursday.
So, yah. Geeks will try to convince everyone else that it's a new level of social interaction, basically because they have no clue what social interaction is. And I fear the day when they realize that they "invested" 4-10 hours a day for a year or more into something that is, well, virtual.
That is very very sadly true. The crafting system is worthless, grouping causes such a significant drop in exp that most forego doing so and the chat system looks like something out of an early 90's game. Guilds are very volatile since players reach level 60 so quickly (most implode under the stress of doing end-game instances or 'dissolve' as casual players simply move onto alts.) Thanks to Battlegrounds, PvP is just a mashed affair of random players wanting honor, World PvP is a thing of the past (unless you're on a PvP server) and the 'Friend List' is a joke since it really doesn't do anything other than notify you if someone has logged on/off.
I find it fairly annoying that WoW given credit for many things its not good at just because its so large and people notice/know about it.
And thats the crux of it all. Before WoW, unless you were a serious gamer the only other MMO you ever heard of was Everquest (UO for the hardcore and MUDs for the uber-hardcore). Give it a few more years and everyone will be complaining about how WoW nearly destroyed the MMO market with its 'let everyone solo damned near everything except the artifically difficult instances' design.
Of course they are virtual worlds. They have gravity, 3D space, items, simulations of living things ...
... In each of these situations there are rules you learn, and you interact (often with others) in a way that follows the rules to achieve a goal.
But then, by this definition, Myst was a virtual world too.
The question makes no sense: "Is it more than a Game?"
Basically, ALMOST EVERYTHING in the real world can be framed as a game. Going to school and getting a degree is a "game", getting a job is a "game" - wearing the correct clothing to the prom is a "game". Driving a car: a game. Klondike, Tennis, Chess, Rubics Cubes, Programming, Reading, Singing
Games are simply situations we create to learn relevant skills. Skills like: Catch the ball, throw the ball, move the rook, make the font on the "employer" line the right size, wear a tie, get your homework in on time, find the flaming Axe. Most games become popular both for participation and spectating because of people's desire to experience vicariously several feelings that are difficult to achieve otherwise (like the vicarious feeling on dominance when watching pro football, or the vicarious feeling of conquest when your character takes down the dragon).
A MUCH better question is this:
Do people learn skills in (current/popular) virtual environments that provide measurable value in the real world?
and if so, what skills and what value?
You held parties that ppl showed up to? Then implimented a filtration system to keep people from attending?
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Were there any chicks?
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Can I come?
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I promise I'll leave my rhok'delar, longbow of the ancient keepers at home.
Oh, good. An easy one.
No.
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
I've found the way not to get addicted to a game is to just play the game for fun and relaxation. You don't have to try to win, just have fun, you'll have fun and relax, and it won't seem like work.
As much as I wish MMOs to be designed with community development in mind, the reality is that the majority of MMOs are built around two functions: to insure a form of 'entertainment' for the player [singular], and to insure the player will come again to be 'entertained.' The multiplayer aspect, guild/party system, and even the instancing are all just secondary functions that fulfill the single player experience among a vast number of other single player users. What I mean by that is that functionally you can have WoW or any other MMO offline and the same experience with regard to the actual combat, level advancement, and quests, and they would operated fully as designed. What wouldn't operate is the obvious player interaction. Oddly, most developers take advantage of this and claim it's their intention to bring players together. Yet, to be honest, I have yet to see a single MMO that let a user design a map, campaign, and quest within the game all on their own with the exception of Saga of Ryzom [Ryzom Ring]. Because of that glaring problem, MMOs will never become the Metaverse/Cyberspace of cyberpunk fiction because of their inherent limitation(s).
VRML and other 3d 'markup' languages were the first attempts at this idea, but it never went anywhere either due to the fact that despite powerful PC computers, the immersive factor was not dependent on if it was realistic or not, but rather solely dependent on the given user's belief in the simulation (Oi, I'm sounding like a French Post-Modernist!). So, before anyone exclaims that MMOs are original, please study your history and notice the numerous failed attempts at the virtual community system. Many are still around, in lesser forms, and many have been absorbed into other systems. I think MMOs will see the same fate as well.
-- Bridget
From golf, to Madden on the Xbox, to Counter-Strike, at certain levels there are people who associate and form deep bonds with each other around any given activity. The crap about getting married in-game and such; I've been playing since day 1 and I've never seen it in WoW. I know it happens, sure, but it's a small fraction of the players who go in for it. Most just play to have a bit of fun and don't really let the game go any further than that (though the amount of time they spend playing may indicate they're completely addicted).
Even among the hardcore this is true. I spent a while in a WoW raiding guild and basically they only knew me from when I signed on until I signed off again. We didn't converse outside the game, I didn't e-marry any of them, and we didn't get together in real life. OTOH, there are some people who go in for that stuff. A former coworker spent half his vacation every year going to party with his EQ guild. He met his fiance (his real fiance) in-game, and didn't meet her until after it had already gotten "serious".
MMOs are only really unique as electronic diversions go because they build in fairly robust chat systems, give you an avatar that has a greater range of expression than a CS model, and give you places to just stand around and chit-chat. If you count the interaction that goes on outside of the game, but in IRC channels related to a given game, between people who only know each other because of that game, you'd see basically the same levels of virtual interaction in any popular video game going way back.
Video games, like any other hobby, make it easy to lose yourself if you want. MMOs are nothing special save that they a) integrate all the pieces of the "virtual world" into one seamless environment, and b) most of them are designed specifically to reward you for spending more time in the game (not just as a result of getting better because you play a lot, as in other games, but with gear rewards and such).
Game... blouses.
What's being remarked on here is surprise that a GAME is producing community. But we've had people meeting and marrying and forming lasting friendships and committing crimes and having almighty bustups before. They've just been doing it over email, on mailing lists, usenet, blogs, IRC...none of that is at all new.
It is no surprise at all that WOW (being an online communications mechanism AND a game) promotes human-to-human interactions in exactly the same way that communities that just happen not to be games do. Put that way, there is nothing remarkable happening here.
So - yeah - WoW is a community that happens to be a community who are playing a game instead of a community that's writing a UNIX-like kernel or a community that's making 'The Elephants Dream' movie or the folks who pretend to be 'The Internet Oracle' or a community like MySpace. But as an online community, what emerges as a result is not surprising at all.
Besides, didn't The Sims Online produce much the same effects?
www.sjbaker.org
Two Words people. Social Networking.
/., digg, flickr, or chatrooms are some of the social networking locations found on the internet.
Whether that be WoW, Second Life or your friendly local grocery store. The fact that people meet and forge relationships on WoW is irrelevant. People are always trying to develop friendships with anyone. WoW, Second Life, MUDs, Myspace, Blogger,
\
Sure, WOW is more than just a game, but that's even more true for the MMO's which are more based around roleplaying such as the original Ultima Online and MUDs. In other words, just because it's popular, doesn't mean it's anything new. I'd like to add that WOW is an evil blight on the history of video games.
tying the knot in some virtual tavern in Thunder Bluff.
I would have picked Ashenvale, but that's just me...
I will forever be a student.
Oh man...does that mean I saved up all that gold, and I'm not really going to get a pony?!?!
You can learn a lot about a person if you just take the time to inject them with sodium pentathol
Of course WoW is more than just a game.
It's also (and possibly most importantly) a BIG BUSINESS.
Same type of real world relationships, same time vacuums, same same.
I don't even have one in my real life, let alone want to spend money for a virtual one.
Hell, most people are enough assholes I'd rather pay money to not have them.
No, the /. browser doesn't get added in to WoW until the next patch, sorry.
My sig can beat up your sig.
I think people that say stupid things about people that play MMOG's like they have no social life or they're losers or they shouldn't play so much and need to hang out with "real" people are just plain bigots. It's a stupid stereotype! How hard is it for someone to realize that compared to talking face to face with local friends, talking to someone with a keyboard is no less appropriate and normal than talking to your friends on the phone. In fact, some games have in game chat so I really don't see what could possibly be bad about hanging out with people in an online game or in "real life" (except for the whole exercise thing)
now stop reading and go play Dance Dance Revolution!
Chess, Checkers, Magic: The Gathering, Morrowind, Dungeons & Dragons, Tetris, Zelda, Quake... all those are games. World of Warcraft is not a game. WoW might have a lot of members, but that does not make it a game.
A game allows players to make non-trivial choices that affect the outcome (positively or negatively) according to an established ruleset, and make progress towards a win or lose condition.
Every choice in World of Warcraft is trivial and there is no lose condition. All choices lead to a win (which is why all choices are trivial, because no choice affects whether or not you win or lose). Success is a function of time played, the only way to "lose" under the WoW ruleset is to cancel your account.
WoW is a very decent graphical user interface to a series of random number generators. Many people find it interesting to observe how the generators affect the graphics, but that has nothing to do with the application's status as a game.
I played Age Of Empires Conqueror's expansion for more than 3 years, and we all who play it used to talk about the epic battles,the startegies, characters, civilisations, gameplan and what not.
Surprisingly it infested our lives so much, we spent hours framing strategies.
I also noticed at times,other students who didn't play AOE, felt completely lost and sometimes annoyed with our weird talks :).Though it was fun to play AOE,but ultimately somehow it was affecting our lives both socially and psychologically at times.Sounds weird but IMO, how hard we try, games do affect our lives.
No surprise when somebody looses in WOW(though never tried WOW:( ) i ll see him/her thinking how to avenge his defeat or may be some new srategy.I would not be even a bit surprised when someone says he/she formed a so called virtual relationship with some virtual he/her in the WoW. :).
-- "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - TAE --
People have forged life long friendships from playing doom2 just as those have from playing college football. They are both games that people with common interests (the game) meet each other. As long as people can communicate with each other doing a common interest this will always happen. This is nothing new.
Generally, though, users of the slashdot enjoy a form of community rarely seen in the real world; high-karma posters go out of their way to flame n00bz0rs and put them in their place. Deep meta-moderation chains are forged. Relationships begin that flower into marriage, with -1 Trolls and 0, Redundants tying the knot in some virtual obscurity in the Underneath-Your-Threshold.
Of course WoW seems different in that it results in deep friendships being forged.
If you think 'just games' never foster deep friendships.
However, other 'just games' seem to do pretty much the same. You could have poker buddies, bowling buddies, soccer buddies, chess buddies, darts buddies etc. etc. etc.
In none of those 'just games' (and sports), newbies are left entirely to their own devices. People help out newbies. And sometimes people get married.
You might as well say "Hey, this couple I know met AT WORK. How crazy is that, because as we all know, there is no social interactivity at all during any kind of paid activity! They must have a really different workplace from the typical workplace where people of generally mixed gender interact socially in a spirit of teamwork and/or competitiveness.." Oh. Wait.
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
"Generally, though, players of the game enjoy a form of community rarely seen in the real world; higher-level players go out of their way to tutor newbies and accompany them on quests. Deep friendships are forged. Relationships begin." Are we talking about the same game? This is a huge pile of BS. The only community, per se, are within guilds. And it tends to be rather cutthroat from my experience. People join large raiding guilds for any number of reasons (status, character advancement, something to do), but rarely is it to make friends.
I think that they should enforce laws, like in china where your account only lets you play 3-4 hours a night max. Even though I have heard of people there opening 2 accounts just so that they can get their full fix.
I feel sorry for anyone that starts playing this game. I used to be an avid video game player but have kinda steered myself away from games like this just because I know what the result is. Just like I have tried alcohol or pot , but like another
People that play this game for more than 2 hours a night are just gross and need help immediately. Take up yoga or meditation or anything. Anyone that does any single activity for 4-8 hours a day outside of work should be asking themselves, "what the hell am i thinking". WOW is a sickness, a plague in our digital society. I do security software development for a living and the only single activity I would consider concievably doing for 4-8 hours straight when i get off work, is writing some WOW worm using new exploit/security hole that would use their contacts list and corrupt their registry and give these people a night off. =) although it would be a futile attempt, cause you know they would spend the evening just reinstalling everything.
Honestly though, if you play this game, take a month off and see if you can go without it. If you can't then do yourself a favour delete all your contacts associated with this virtual world and remove the software from your computer (microwave the damn CD).
"Get a life, you only get one!". People in 3rd world countries would give anything to have the opportunities these people have. Instead you rot away in your basement playing shit like this just to make blizzard a profit hahaha.. That's the real joke, someone is making a profit off you rotting in your basement.
There is something to be said for online gaming communities. Subspace/Continuum has been around for almost 10 years because of the community it built.
"Meet interesting people, then gank them."
higher-level players go out of their way to tutor newbies and accompany them on quests.
U PWR LVL PLZZZZ!?!
How come there has to be some defining limitation between social interaction on-line and off-line? WoW is "more then just a game" because it allows people to interact with each other and form communities, the same way joining a soccer team does. How is this any different for the mind? People tend to get stuck on the "physical", and if you rule your life by exercise alone, then I can see how you would never understand this concept. WoW is more of a virtual world then Myst because of the dynamic context created by other humans interacting with the system. How is a friendship forged on-line any less valuable then a friendship formed with the person down the street? Reality is merely an interpretation of occurances : visual, kinestetic, auditory, etc. The psyche behind the interaction is no less real on-line then it is at the local bar. People can be as fake, or as honest in either world. People can be as open or as isolated in either world. Is WoW a community? Yes, as any game that allows extensive online social interaction is. People who are stuck alone on the "physical" context are limiting their understanding.
Current education of western education system teach kids to win at all cost. New generations thinks life was soccer game, they want to win at all costs.They want see great success in their life time even in 10 or 5 years period.
Because they want to be prove their values.
So in real world there was not enough wars to prove themselves, then they jumps virtual world. WoW was best of the best.
Ps:Please do not argue my english, I just learn that much by myself...
[My english is better than most other people's Turkish, so please point out mistakes politely. Thank you.]
that there's this thing called outside. these people should check it out. sad really. Is this seriously a story? People going out of their way to tutor noobs in an online video game?
-- http://www.criticalassets.com
I just cancelled my WoW account, and it will probably stay that way for awhile. I have other interests, hobbies, and games to play. Too long have I neglected the latest and greatest for WoW. But that game IS the most addictive game I have ever played, and it does so by adding a real human element, literally.
One of my favorite things to do with my LVL54 mage was to go back to the lower level areas, and just help the people asking for it. It was my way of giving back to the community. Plus, there is a real ego boost (yeah... I know I sound like a giant nerd) from laying waste to groups of elites by yourself.
There was also some girl I met (according to her... at least) that was really cool, she helped me learn the game for no real reason, other than she was being helpfull, she also had a cool handle, Nemesys. It is fun to play these games, because other people see your accomplishments, and the time doesn't feel wasted. Uhh... for the people who get married on WoW, I think that is kind of weird (I woudln't agree to meet any chick I talked to on WoW, for some strong stereotypical reasons) but it does go to show that this game has real life implications.
Any game that has direct influence on your life, other than the time played, is more than a game, it is a virtual reality of sorts.
You take it, I don't want it...
No, I don't think that's it either. We've had games producing communities since before there were computers. Chess, bridge, backgammon, poker, wargames (ok, I'm not sure offhand whether wargames predate computers, but I suspect so) and more, all have been the basis of communities. More recently, RPGs and even trading card games form communities IRL. And most decent online computer games have done the same in their own way.
Information doesn't want to be anthropomorphized anymore.
I used to think these kinds of articles were cool when I played EQ and they were about EQ.
Now, I don't play WoW, and I just think they're pathetic self-flaggelation with a narcissistic, "me too" theme.
NO MORE WOW ARTICLES - THANKS.
wow is an addiction... I hate wow, but I cant stop playing it... please.. make me stop !
For having a story dedicated to them every second day. Its not the only MMORPG. A very popular one, nevertheless, but not the only one. Every second there there is a story about WoW. A new for of advertising. And many of these stories are not even "News". Not even for RPG fans. Go ahead now, mod me down for being offtopic
My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
Server: Slashdot
Guild: Pathetic
[Human Warrior]: LF1M Marriage. Need Female and we go.
[NE Priest]: I'm Female, you still looking?
[Human Warrior]: Yeah, what lvl r u?
[NE Priest]: 17, will that work?
[Human Warrior]: That's a little low. How close are you to 18?
[NE Priest]: A couple of bars.
[Human Warrior]: Ok, good enough then. You'll probably lvl at the beginning of the instance.
[NE Priest]: Can I have some gold to repair first and buy a few items before we start? BTW, I'm also going to roll need on everything that drops.
[Human Warrior]: On second thought...
I think you are exactly right. It is away for many to escape their reality exactly as you described it. The big draw being, not only can they now escape but they can make it into anything they want to be and/or pretend to be someone they are not. I think a large portion of wow players that do so on a level that is extreme. AKA playing more than average are probably depressed or trying to escape real life for a reason. Most probably need to be talking to someone about it, but instead spend there time focused in on something that keeps their mind occupied. BANG ON dude... bang on!
I know of someone who is getting married to a person they met on W.O.W. Kind of scary. They have spent a total of 7 days together in person, maybe about 50 hours on the phones, and atleast 30 character levels on-line. And now they're getting married. What happened to actually going out and meeting people? The D&D clan has now gone global. The number 1 reason for divroce is marriage.
I was more an addict of the old Quake & Unreal Tournament online battles. You'd hop online see regulars, and chat a bit in between blowing each other's head off.
Kind of an online equivalent of a social game of Tennis.
Was it a community? Yeah, a bit.
In my opinion this question is kinda void. Sure, massive games are special. Else it would just called "another" game. However there's two things I notice in this post. First of all, any community will be a way to meet people. If you play sports or an AA meeting, you might meet people too. Of course the goal of the community in itself might be good for meeting people or it might not (for example you might meet a lot of nice people on a science fair but that might not be what you think of a perfect date not for me anyway
Secondly, the article talks about a tauren and undead marrying. This points to a RP server kinda thing. And in that case that's not so special at all. As a previous poster already mentioned, this has been done for a long time in online games that have a RP option. After all, marrying and love is essential for reallife so it also is in a roleplaying environment.
Either way, I met my girl on a chatbox. There was a tight community there, we met once every 2 months or so. We had lots of fun and didn't have any games we played in common. My point is, a community can be build around alot of things and can still net the same results.
Dre
Why do so many people find fun in monotony if that is what this game is about?
I have never played it but when I always hear terms like "monotony" and "grinding" I don't think I will ever have a reason to try it.
I play Eve Online, there is so much stuff in the game and the universe is so big it will literally be years before I see it all.. if that. I am glad the game I play is fun and the people who enjoy it understand that a fun video game does not need to be built around monotony
This is a grade-A freakin' cultural tragedy -- not that people are interacting in games (INTERACTING while PLAYING A GAME!!!omg!!) but that everyone has FORGOTTEN that this semi-revolution actually took place on MUDs and MUCKs (not to omit MUSHes and MOOs) in the freakin' early 90s. You freakin' teenagers.
Now get off my lawn before I hit you with my basalt sword.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
I don't really get it. Is this article written by someone claiming to be part of an elite group or what? It sure sounds like it wants to claim that WoW is superior, unique or more special than anything you've ever seen. My personal opinion about WoW set aside (I think the game is repetitive & boring), I really wonder if ppl who claim this have anything to compare this to?
... have a very close community. Clans/Guilds (same thing) are formed, new friendships are made, ... The difference maybe is that this is not all in-game, but it's all related, part of the bigger picture of the game. The difference is that in MMORPG's these social structures are part of the planned game, while in other games it is up to the players themselfs to organise this.
The article seems to assumes that no other games with dense communities exist. WoW had a lot of predecessors and still has a lot of competition in Azia. What do you think those games are? Exactly the same. Look at Guild-wars - same thing. Even games like Quake, UT, Battlefield, CS,
So enlighten me - what's so special about a game with a tight community? Soccer/baseball/basketball are games too - they have communities aka 'fan-clubs'. It's not because they don't involve pc's that they're not an escape from reality/daily boring life...
Individual thing, addiction. I have been addicted as hell to MMORPG:s in a few rounds (I.e. 1 round DAoC, 2 rounds of WoW - quit in the middle to avoid screwing up my professional / academic life completely.) Luckily, I find the endgame in WoW really dull, so I am now "clear" for the moment. The sense of knowing you are doing something rather destructive to yourself, thinking about it, and at the same time just not being able to stop is rather scary though. Certainly lent some support to modular modelling of the mind, if nothing else.
The social part reinforces the addictiveness, as it makes it harder to quit outright, due to bonds of friendship and, yes, a feeling of community. Still, fun game - glad I'm not playing it anymore though. Hopefully, I'll be able to steer clear of the expansion...
do we really need another crappy story about generic fantasy MMOs every other day?
Even MUDs in the old days, were very very tight communities. The MUD I played for a long time (Kobramud) actually was a very tight community, quite a few relationsships and marriages started there...
I think that any large enough, virtual world that actually functions (regardless of graphics/text or theme) will become a virtual community.
How much one loses him/her serf in this is up to the player, I've seen quite a few people lose themselves in a MUD.
but I've never made money from any other game (I was paid money to create a website for a guild).
Why would I risk identity theft or a company selling my personal information for profit in such a moneyed situtaion? 'Second Life' has had 2 incidents of this recently. Also, one-way virutality can be dangerous because it can teach people to mimic crazy things they are taought by a coorperation so they can get rich in real life as they do in the game. If the game teaches crappy principals like to just kill instaed of think or focus on acccumulating wealth as a good thing as is the rpime focus of the for profit closed source online virtual worlds.
Think about Star Trek and the abuse the Holodeck sometimes inflicted. But the Holodeck was an open system I think and could be manipulated for safety and health reasons. Open it up or it can be a strong addiction for the real life loser.
Sorry for the misspells.
Go play Eve Online if you like to grind. Another mindless repetitive game that sets you back 10+ hours from a single death. Join a community of players who thinks theyre smarter than everyone else cuz they own 10 accounts in a single game.
It's not (really) a word!
In 2005 he published Synthetic Worlds. He is/was a mainstream economist who got hooked on Everquest but then used his professional skills to analyze what was going on. He quite strongly feels these MMOGs are more than just games, and in a certain sense are very very real. The book is a good read and Section 3 gives his possible scenarios for the future including potential "mass emigration" to cyberspace and possible governmental reaction.
It was a friend of mine who offered me the chance to come and join the old gang, so we can all be together in this super new virtual world called WoW. They had their guild and they were doing pretty good too on and RP server. It was all gibberish to me, but the idea of meeting some old faces again (well chatting) and trying this "new stuff" was fine with me. And so I did and I was amazed for a few months.. 2 Months of fun, bliss and mostly finding my ways in the classes and on the maps by trying a few different characters, trades, gear. I do love adventure games and puzzle games, this one was perfect with it's foreign lands to discover, resources to grab, professions to understand and that captivating auction house.
Except that gradually some details started to show me that it was just a computer program, just like you can see tiny cracks on the ceiling of a room after living into it for a few months.
There is no free economy. Yes there is an Auction House where you can control the price, but you can't sell/buy what you want because you can't craft what you really want. Each thing you can craft can be done by gaining a recipe/formula/schematic for it, which work just like a one user license. You can't control the quality of the object, Blizzard has done it for you and apart from one or two items (engineer's Green Lens) there is no random property to them. There is no innovation, no creativity. I was told to pick engineering because it would be fun for the mad inventor type it's not, it's boring. Every engineers with the same skill lvl can produce the exact same thing. And it's the same with all trades. Tell me you lvl/skill/specialization and I know already what millions like you can make. Anything you can pick, craft, loot has been re-adjusted, nerfed, added a ridiculous cool-down period between uses so that it doesn't harm an other class of profession. The economy in WoW is a socialist one where the state controls all of the things created. It's like working in a land where the work unions have complete control over everything invented or crafted. Recipe/Formulas/Schematics/etc... cost a fortune and once you "learn" one you end up with a thing that costs 10 gold coins to make and that no one buys since everyone else can make it. It costs less to buy things direct. Besides, most of what you buy is good for the garbage can in 5 lvls. Quite depressing, isn't it ? Is your real life job like that too? I hope not. So I became tired of those professions. I didn't want to hear a thing about something where there is no prospect. What are the incentives again ?
Now they talk of a "daily grind" in the real world, well the one in WoW is incredibly horrible after a while and as you grow up and are sent again higher lvl mobs you get to see the same patterns. Mobs are still mobs.
What's more by that time I have started realising that to make thing easier for their AI algorithms, those mobs didn't have to face the same problems you have to. When they run away they automagicaly have their health pump up to 100%, they can do speeds you can't, they can walk up slopes no one can. It's a complete cheat, and since you have to kill thousands and thousands of mobs all the time to make it to higher levels, you will have to live with it hundred of times a day. In fact because mobs are cheating so much, you can't devise any strategy at all. The AI detection system is quite simplistic too, if you are used to tactical games a la SWAT, Operation Flashpoint and those that came after, you will find WoW mobs to be like dumb blind droids with a texture painted onto them and a cheesy detection circle that doesn't stop at walls. Targeting is a nightmare, you can get"no line of fire" problems when you attack mobs in a complex place (underwater ships, ruins) but they can attack you and even attack you thru walls. The base mechanics in the WoW tactical engine is just way too poor to make the enemy remotely enjoyable.
So grinding also became boring... incredibly depressing in fact.
So one day I'
yes it is more than a game. I quit cold turkey in March and I'm STILL getting massive urges to play even though my life is richer for not bothering.
i generally am of the opinion that community can for anywhere, maybe it's not what anybody would cal a /real/ relationship because you'd not normally meet somebody i the flesh. however i would hazard a guess that a lot of us have some form of contact list, which mixes people we know (in the real world, i you like) and people we have met in the varying online communities that are kicking about. conversations aren't usually very different between them.
give people a place to go (especially some form of character development) and i think they'd have a hard time /not/ communicating, it seems to be what we all just do, no matter what.
But seriously, I've got about half of my female friends playing WoW. Personally I've never enjoyed Warcraft that much, and prefered Myth by far. WoW seems to be some sort of drug to female gamers.
I don't think the parent is a troll at all, I also think there are some valid points made. Mod parent up.
...go out of their way to kill newbies, and disrupt their questing. Get your facts straight!
I play games to win.. to crush others and gain respect. Single player games can be beaten.. MMORPGs cannot be 'won' and they have no ending.
...
This above sentence of yours, sire, implies that you have or will be having problems with MANY things in your life that include, but not limited to multiplayer gaming.
To name a few; your work environment, your fellow employees, the people you play golf with at weekends, your children, friends of your wife, your father, the cab driver, your local grocer, guy at the videostore and then some more
Not surprisingly, people that are of your disposition are generally the tasteless gameplay spoilers in multiplayer games.
Your kind is of powerplay freaks with an aptidude for 'bashing' of other people to make up for their real life shortcomings, albeit in games.
No wonder you were addicted, and had bad experiences.
Read radical news here
Huh ?
..... do i have to go on ?
Golf clubs, gun owners associations, bridge clubs, local bingo people, curling enthusiast
almost EVERY single type of shit, and im not only talking about games, have caused people to form communities, for the last known 10000 years of history. And so it is going to be from now to eternity.
So whats there to wonder and amaze about communities being formed in games ? Internet, games over internet form a much more easy way to form communities than the examples i said in above paragraphs.
Read radical news here
Our group had the same issue but with FFXI (another MMORG).
I play 1hour a week because it allows me to be closer to my friends. Call me the 'social gamer'
1) Yes they are real friendships.
And I feel it is fun to talk about something that won't hurt anyone's feelings (read 'not politics' and 'not sports') and is more meaningful than 'gee, how about that weather' small talk.
But it does form a 'click' of people who can converse at lenght and enjoy each other's company.
2) If it is important to you to be included in the conversation then buy yourself an account and spend an hour a week 'watching the soap opera' so you can join in.
Otherwise don't complain that you didn't watch the soap and can't join in the conversation.
3) Does this mean your friends from the sports bar aren't your friends if you can't talk about things other than sports (and beer) with them? (uhhh...)
Why do some people hate games like WoW so much? FPS can be just as addictive. I knew a guy in college who played quake 8 hours a day at least. Yes WoW can be ruin lives. But so can any obsessive activity. Hell someone could ruin all their real life relationships by being an obsessive knitter. "Must knit, must knit. Don't you understand I need to finish that sweater now!! I have 65 more patterns to try!" I play WoW. But I don't have tv. I play maybe 2-3 hours a night. At lunch at work all I hear people talking about is what was on tv. Between all the shows and sports they watch I estimate they watch around 3-6 hours a night. How is me playing WoW worse then others watching tv? At least what I am doing is interactive and requires some thinking and some social interaction (yes yes it is virtual but it still takes a hell of a lot more people skills than starring blankly at a tv). It is what you make it. The guild I am in is very laid back. Someone doesn't show up for something, no big deal we'll find someone else. Usually everyone is glad they didn't make it when they find out the reason. Took the wife/girlfriend to dinner, was out with the kids, hanging out with friends whatever. Bottom line, you can make anything into a bad thing. Don't insist that something has to be bad just because you think it would be for you.
Its repetitive and grinding crap like 99% of the mmorpgs out there.
Or I could post an ancedote about my brother's sister's roommate getting addicted to WoW while I did crap all to help. Or that WoW sucks because it's boring. Which will get me modded up?
Is wow a big financial success?
Yes, it is.
Is wow extremely addictive?
Yes, it is.
Does wow give players the illusion they are having social interaction?
Yes, it does.
Do these reasons make wow more than just a game?
No, they don't.
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
Newsweek, 1984 called, it would like its news back.
This isn't news to anyone that's been playing RPGs.
It's only news to the mass media because so many 'normals' are now getting involved/hooked.
-Styopa
Hilarious video created in W.O.W. about what the internet is really for. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5430343841 227974645
where everyone gets together in the spirit of loving kindness and compassion for their fellow man.
"higher-level players go out of their way to tutor newbies and accompany them on quests. Deep friendships are forged." can anyone say griefing, ganking, personal abuse. rogues, spawn camping, gold and item scams, botting, exploits, insane competitiveness, ninja looting.... so yes its a real commmunity, just like rl
Well, I have a life outside of WoW. I have a job, a wife and two kids. I'm going to spend part of today in a probably nasty discussion with an outside vendor after a major fuckup this weekend. I'll go home and deal with my youngest who is having a major asthma incident right now so we're doing everything we can to keep him out of the hospital again.
I get plenty of chances to lose and lose big in the real world. Perhaps playing a game where a bad mistake only results in a few hours of lost time isn't such a horrible thing? (Even though I still feel bad when I make a mistake and cause my group to wipe)
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
"Relationships begin that flower into marriage"
Do the laws governing interstate/international gambling that specify "where" a distributed transaction takes place, and under which laws, also govern "Internet marriage"? Can two men get married "in" Wow, but both physically in, say, Massachussets, and be legally bound by the vows? What if the players are a man and a woman, but they're both playing men?
Since America now sees a private, voluntary group of activists working to define the country's legal definition of marriage strictly according to their group's exclusive terms, will we see them attack these games? Campaigning against "miscegenation", "bestiality", "homosexuality" and "unholy" combinations? Will they seek the destruction of online RPGs as 3rd Millennium Sodom and Gomorrahs?
--
make install -not war
Trying to make out World of Warcraft as some den of degenerate, depressed people seeking "escapism" seems ignore that people do this all over all of the time without the game. People go to the club to escape. People go to the coffee shop to escape. People go to the sports bar and watch their game to escape. People go to Borders for the book club to escape! No one goes to these social settings or clubs for something that really ends either. They will continue to go to it as long as it is fun and comfy for them.
Honestly this "WoW is full of addicts" thing is old and really has no more support than claiming "Border's Book Club is full of book reading addicts". "Escapism" isn't necessarily an indicator anything beyond having free time. People spend their free time at the club, at the coffee shop, at the sports bar, and at the bookstore because they can get only so much social interaction with their family at home. Why is no one bemoaning these as addictive but World of Warcraft is?
Although most of the posts sofar seem to debate whether or not WoW is an actual community and what the addictive effects of WoW are, they don't go into another popular topic related to the question "Is WoW More Than Just a Game?".
/. has strong arguments contrary to mine?
I've had discussions with several players of MMO's (specifically NeoCron and EVE Online) who stated that they felt property created by them in these games somehow belonged to them. Ofcourse the respective EULA's of the game state that such claims are void, everything belongs to the owner of the game, usually it's creator.
But to my knowledge, none of these cases sofar have been tested in court, anywhere. They hold that, since they invested real time in creating these items and the items represent real value to them, the game company is not allowed to take these items from them as long as they stick to the rules of the game (for instance by removing them as a result of a change in the game).
I on the other hand feel that this 'investment' is not a very wise investement of their time and the game company has no obligation to them, anymore than a corporation going bankrupt has any further obligation to its stockholders. A bad investment is likely to go bust, but maybe someone on
lern2spec
Games like WoW have always fostered a feeling of community. Even back in the Dungeons and Dragons days (which live on for many of us) the games offered a feeling of belonging. The difference is a matter of scale. Wow is so massive that this community is much larger, more multifaceted, and has more sub-communities.
Long distance social interaction is nothing new. It dates back to the advent of writing, and letters carried between countries.
For centuries, people have shared experiences, ideas, and life experiences -- and yes, even fallen in love and gotten married as a result of shared letters. Be it chess by mail, discussions of mathematics, writing plays (Gilbert and Sullivan corresponded across the Atlantic), or just sappy love letters between would-be lovers, people have been interacting "socially" over distance for years.
The Internet, and WOW, is just a faster, more scalable way of doing the same thing. The social phenonmenon is nothing new: just the implementaion details. People like to talk to each other, remotely as well as in person, and their emotions don't shut off just because the person on the other end of the communications is a long way away.
Despite it's popularity, Warcraft goes out of it's way to destroy any chance of community or creation of anything more then just a game. Players are given very little in the way of personal choice in how to play the game or what to do. The game plays as 2 completely seperate games. The first is the 1-60 time where the game is designed to mold you into one of a few tracks for your toon and is generally capable of being done solo. Post 60 progession is locked into needing a large group of people to progress into dungeons that pretty much have to be done in a certain order. No where in there is their room for player choice. They do everything they can to remove this. Community and games that are more then games, evolve out of the ability to have many different choices and the ability to use those choices with other people. Ultima Online and Dark Age of Camelot were 2 games with quite a bit of player choice that developed full rich communities. SW:G was much the same but I've much more limited knowledge of that game.
I declare Shenanigans on this submission. You would have to be completely sick to chose a Tauren female as a bride. They are ugly to the point of disgusting. Blizz desperately needs to give Taruen females some redeeming quality to make up for their hideous ugliness.... maybe if you could milk them to get free drinks.
A good friend of the family who is a well-educatated psychiatrist once asked me to tell her about the basics of World of Warcraft. (And before you ask, I am not a patient.) It happened that she was treating a patient with asocial behaviour and tendencies of depression, and s/he spent all day and night playing WoW, often forgetting to eat if s/he was alone. The patient got a lot more interested after I provided a quick intro.
This was about one and a half year ago.
From that day she has treated more "WoW patients" (not treating them from the game, but more or less destructive behaviour) and she frequently asks me to look up any scientific papers and articles regarding online gaming (especially MMORPGs), which are subjects drawing a growing attention in this field.
I am not a WoW player, but I remember playing MUSHs when I had a RL Warhammer group in the weekends, and the text-based world was pretty real to me. But just for a while. I would read anything Tolkien/Fantasy related, bought a bunch of artworks and even a sword, but thanks to the RL RPG group it was never anything anti-social about it.
When I was a young teenage chatter, I had what I'd call emotionally close relations to people I had never met. We would write long e-mails about daily life and all sorts of things. Most of them I dropped contact with a long time ago, but some I still keep in touch with today. I would still say they were and are real friends.
This is a separate form, not asocial form, of social relations, which will superficially supply the need of interaction, and even establish authentic feelings and friendships. But it has its obvious limits.
It will never satisfy the need for human touch, which goes deeper than we'd like to believe. It's not that long ago we established and secured our social bondings with grooming each other. An unreasonable detachment from RL social networks and human touch is, in my view, a disorder.
Just some thoughts here:)
Defining Statistics and Social Research
Wargames most certainly do pre-date computers. Fletcher Pratt (who was a Sci-Fi author and a naval historian) published a book: "Fletcher Pratt's Naval War Game" in 1940. I've played the game he describes and it's a lot of fun. I kinda doubt he was the first - but his book has "War Game" in the title and it predates computers - so it conclusively answers your question. Wikipedia claims 'Kreigspiel' was played in Prussia as early as 1811, H.G Wells also published books that codified 'rules' for playing with toy soldiers that could be described as war games back in 1911. But I believe Fletcher Pratt is the true father of the genre.
It is just an MMOG(ame). So it's a game with a chat room. To even ask the question is stupid. These people are just desperate to write more about WoW to get some headlines.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
Its about 10,000 years too late (if you're a hard line 6day genesis believer) or a couple billion years too late if you're not.
People have been forming communities around their interests since our only interest was to live, eat, procreate and die.
The only difference is that we now have people forming online communities. This should be no suprize to a community like slashdot who regularly argues that existing meat-space applications and processes shouldn't be patentable as 'new' when they are moved to an electronic application.
Vermifax
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I currently have a 7-4 job that I go to and I still coexist with the world and I'm not living on the street begging for money so I can go to the local Internet Cafe to get my fix as some of you would suggest on here. What's the diffrence between playing a game a few hours a night and watching TV a few hours a night? In fact...playing a game is more envolving...requires you to think and interact (even socially). I do have other friends that don't play WoW that I still talk to and hang out with. On average my WoW play time is probably 3+ hours a night and 6+ hours a night on the weekend (provided I don't go out with friends). Now...maybe I am addicted but is it harming me in anyway? I think not.
Bite my shiny metal ass.
Wow owned your mom. ahhahaha.
2006 called, it just wanted to let you know that its still true. How do I know, Oh, I don't know maybe its because of my volenteer work with teenagers for the past ten years. Its just that RPG's and espeically multiplayer ones are used as a form of socialising outside the accepted nomality. It brings in people who have difficulty expressing themselves and need to hide behind alter egos. Its not that fantasy and rpgs are wrong or stupid, its just it attracts a certain crowd that seeks an alternative identity to the normal one because they can't imagine themselves in the normal one. That being said there are many normal people probley as your self that this doesn't apply to. It is a sterotype that is not always true. WOW is more accepted because when people don't knwo what it is, you can tell them its a video game. Just about everyone has played one at some point and it seems less wierd. I've met many many adults that were not "d&d gamers" that play WOW. WOW is huge. "real gamers" who brag about being "real gamers" really don't affect people who don't want to be "real gamers".
Ok, now for the revelation. Yes I was a D&D player back in the day. And Shadowrun. But I also had normal friends and did normal things with them. And yes they made fun of me for playing D&D. And yes I made fun of myself for playing. No I don't play WOW cause I'm against subscription based games and I want to keep mor etime for doing other things. I don't think I could compete or really enter in the virtual world, I think I'ma ddicted to the real one..... where I post on Slashdot.....
but at least I am who I say I am. No need for AC.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
This isn't really new or unique even to todays graphical MMORPGs.
I used to be on one of the first muds, only available via dialup. The dialup part added to the sense of community since most of us were local. We ended up meeting, having parties, and spent the better part of a decade together on and off.
A few marriages were created and destroyed, children created and destroyed. Really the same kind of thing that happens anywhere where youngish (15-25+ yr old) people unintentially spend a lot of time together.
The military forges similar long-term, deep relaitonships, as does school some office environments and even (to a lesser degree) summer camp.
The trick is spending long ammounts of time with the same group of people.
Having gone through that, I have questions as to how healthy such an environment is. In many cases you have young, under-developed people 13-16 interacting with emotionally immature older people(from 17 to 40!). I'm not sure this combination HAS to be "Bad", but looking back on years of it, I can say that it almost always is.
I hate to disapoint you but I play MMORPGs to escape reality due in part to depression. I'm considering reinstalling FFXI to do just that in fact.
http://www.cafepress.com/hikarudesigns/ http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=hikaru
Actually WoW has turned into the next round of family gaming. As the kids were growing up, we played pencil and paper GURPS around the dining room table, and some classic computer games (Gold Box series) around the family PC. It was a hoot. During the High School it tended to drop off, as we all got busier with school/work phase changes. Then, when they were off at college WoW came around, and it has been brilliant. My daughter and I played most Saturday and Sunday mornings - as we are both early risers and her net latency was better. It didn't matter that I was in Indiana and she was in Minnesota. We would chat on Teamspeak and kill the mobs together. Quality time.
Now my son (grad student in physics in Boulder), his former roommate (Seatle), brother (L.A. entrepeneur)and I all play a Sunday afternoon instance group together. Daughter should join in this week as she is getting DSL installed in her apartment in Japan.
This was always the promise of the web. Seamless communication over vast physical distances. The family is great fun now, in spite of the miles that separate us. Yes. It is great Family Tims.
duke out
I don't disagree about escapism and WoW's ability to do it better than a book or a movie.
But I don't think it's the secret of its success. WoW is successful because it (ironically, considering this article) allows for heavy solo/casual play, and is easy to get into.
Those searching for hardcore escapism already had it in EQ and UO, long before WoW. (Not that everyone who plays those is escapist, just that those that are didn't need WoW to come along to satisfy that urge.)
When I used to OL-RP in games friends and I made, it was an escape for me, a way to get away from my "real" life and go on adventures, to create who I wanted to be and the life I wanted. For so long I lived for the game, and when I wasn't at the computer, I got antsy and was worried about what was happening. During the course of the game, a few of us started to co-write a story with our characters, alternating chapters, in which anything could happen, even someone else killing your character in this story. It was heart-breaking when one particular character, Imlain, died, and we all felt loss and were pretty pissed at Nae for killing him. He was killed saving "me" and in the RPG he was killed doing something else. The sense of guilt at this person/Elf dying to save "me" was horrible.
I don't know whether it's more appropriate to say that Arareiél became a part of me, or whether I became a part of her, but for aw hile it was hard to tell the difference. In many ways, my character helped me cope with some tough situations in life, and I felt myself trying to act IRL as she would, and it kept me calm.
This is one point at which it ceases to be just a game. another is in how we actually formed what felt like genuine emotional connections with the characters we made. They were very, very real to us all. It was difficult sometimes to remember that the characters weren't truly real people. And this is interesting and very relevent in today's online world. In the course of our play, we created characters so complex we got to know them better for a while than we got to know each other. Their backgrounds, likes, dislikes, etc., and it brings to mind just how easy it would be to completely create an online persona different from yourself in every way. Imlain was played by a woman, yet was a very gentle male character who could be aggressive when need be. How do any of us know that the person we've known online only is really that person? Excepting in-person meetings and friendships, we have little way to tell. Maybe everyone online is just a game, and we are all participants.
It's a fantasy that becomes a distorted reality. And I find myself eager to sink back into it with WoW to resurrect the old friend/alter self I miss so much.
It's a girl!
... move on.
Seriously, it is not this big. Yes I play. I don't care about the US-based subscription numbers. Still not that big of a deal.
ChozSun
ChozSun.com
Everyone has to have some sort of escapist activity, because everyone suffers from some sort of depression on some level. That's just what it is to be human, to always really yearn for something more, something better. There is absolutely no one out there who can honestly say and actually TRULY believe in saying there is not one thing in their life they'd like to change for the better, its simply the imperfection of humankind.
And I still do.
Let's see...
I also had a daughter who's now married.
I've been down multiple double diamond black runs.
I've saved a girl from a crazy boyfriend.
I've helped lots of homeless people with food.
I'm successful in my career and manage other people-- in part because my social skills are so damn good compared to the people around me. Where did I learn these skills? Mostly DnD and EQ.
I've had as many as four girlfriends actively going at one time-- all aware that they were not the only one.
I know about tantra and the g-spot and how to approach a female so that it works reliably (No.. not dnd- Donald Hicks GREAT BOOK! READ IT! Every woman in the world should go and give Donald Hicks a blow job or do his housework for a week.) So then the question is-- does the x-spot really exist?
I've lead ultimate frisbee teams.
I've built a house for the homeless and worked in the foodbanks.
I've slammed about in mosh pits.
I've been in terrific pillow fights with saucy young girls in the last two years.
I've gotten drunk on Absinthe (yes! It IS different than getting drunk on other alchohols- not quite as "silly". And I prefer it neat with dark chocolate-- loched with chilled water was really gagworthy).
I play tons of boardgames.
I go to lots of concerts.
I've seen every Cirque d' Soliel in vegas except the new one -- including a hot date to the sexy one.
I know how to swing and western swing dance (and still take lessons).
DnD was the foundation of most of these things. It put me in a regular social group with regular interaction with girls which gave me a regular basis for parties and that led me into EQ which put me into an even larger social group and some kick ass parties. EQ gave me a chance to flirt like hell for the first time in my life which lead to huge improvements in RL.
DnD does not == "end of social life".
Making DnD your entire life is probably bad- but so is watching football games 24/7 during the season unless your SO is into football that much too.
Most of the DnD people I know are happily married and have been for years.
If I were a lady, I'd take a gamer over a TV addict any day of the week. At least the mind is still working.
And...
I *still* play DND -- twice a month with a total of 15 people. Sure, it's not the 8 times a month of my ill-spent youth but life has a way of intruding as you get older. Even now I play EQ more (7 hours a week) than I play DnD. Wow-- hmm. Wow seems like "EQ-Lite" to me. I guess that's why so many like it.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
I think HE is the type of guy grandparent is trying to keep out.
Malygos FTW! HongBits
Of course this is somewhat flogging a dead horse, BUT.. no, he isn't.
I'm down with those sort of jokes, and make them myself.
It's just the 30 minute to 2 hour conversations about WoW that are annoying.
Someone used search/replace to re-post an everquest article, or was it ultima online... or one of the muds?
Alternatively they're some sort of alien life form that has just discovered that when people spend time chatting together they socialise.
News? Old news if any.
-- Don't believe everything you read, hear or think
So here's a question that really puts happiness of an activity to the test. If you were going to die 1 year from today. Would you spend every night playing WoW or actually get out and experience real life? I guarantee the answer isn't, "I would sit in my basement staring at a screen burning the midnight oil while I interact with my virtual world that I can make whatever I want happen". lmao
The only attraction to this type of game is for people who's lives haven't developed the way they want, now having the ability to create a virtual world that one can be proud of. The irony being these people are now dedicating even more time to not accomplishing anything the desire in the real world. It's perfect!!! You losers keep playing WoW, well us winners will keep doing what made us winners in the first place.
Some will say who am I to judge a person for playing this MMORPG for 4+ hours a night. But the real question is, how l deluded do you have to be to justify otherwise?
BLIZZARD has you losers by the balls.
I like you. You are absolutely right of course.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
I don't talk to family or friends about WoW (unless they ask about it), just as they know not to bother me with long-winded sports stories.
Haha... they are.
:p
My slant is that like you said, reality is bigger than we know. Even then, we can only perceive it with our senses, and instruments that translate it either directly to sensory info, or some form of perceivable data, which still leaves plenty unobserved.
What we CALL reality on the other hand, is far different... I think most people would tell you bigfoot isn't real. Does that mean no such creature exists? Not neccesarily, but in our society "bigfoot isn't real" is the accepted view that most people would call reality. For me, it's a linguistic/social thing. Could some people have been abducted by UFOs? Sure, why not? Most accounts have major discrepancies and logical flaws though, so generally if someone makes such a claim, they're automatically lumped in with the crazy fringe. It's so hard to verify things like these, so people tend to assume they're either delusional or lying.
Go to a predominantly religious community, and anyone will tell you God is real. Can they prove it? Probably not. If you're the disbeliever in the crowd of believers? They'd probably think there was something wrong with you and act accordingly: maybe trying to correct your views to match theirs; so it's just easier to add "God is real" to your factbook while in that area since that's how opinion is polarized there.
Aah! Don't get me started! The story's done and I'll keep going as long as there's discussion!