UK's Biggest Supermarket Challenges Microsoft

An anonymous reader writes "The UK's equivalent of Walmart is taking on Microsoft in the software game. Tesco is famous for it's cheap 'value' food, but it's now offering 'value' alternatives to Microsoft's biggest products. From the article: 'Now, when you traverse the aisles in search of baked beans, sanitary towels and two-for-one packs of raw mince (hamburger), you can grab yourself a copy of Tesco Office (£20) — an alternative to the almost de-facto standard that is Microsoft Office — or Tesco Antivirus (£10), which is designed to keep your PC free of malware.' Tesco apparently 'takes one in every eight pounds spent in the UK'."

Comments

If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[Winckle]

Then why don't they just use free alternatives from the internet. Open source or just plain freeware?

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[cliffski]

Because the kind of person that will buy anti-virus software in a supermarket is not likely to know what to do with downloaded zip or rar file they will get from sourceforge.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like the companies that sell open source software should follow the lead.

That is, sell their own software in supermarkets.

It'll be a lot easier to make progress there than at hardware sellers (Dell, HP, etc.)

It just needs to be sold as a way to extend the life of old PCs.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[NSIM]

>Then why don't they just use free alternatives from the
>internet. Open source or just plain freeware?

Because the vast majority of people wouldn't know where to look for such software if you gave 'em a map, and a high percentage of those who did find "free" software would manage to download all sorts of spyware and other crap in the process.

Perhaps Sourceforge should put up a "PC Essentials" list with the more mature free/open source products list on it, today I defy defy the average PC user who doesn't know specifically what they are looking for to find safe free sources of software and get what they need without spending a lot of time and effort.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[CrazyTalk]

Not to mention they don't have any idea what "sourceforge" is or where to find it.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[FireFury03]

Then why don't they just use free alternatives from the internet. Open source or just plain freeware?

Two reasons spring immediately to mind:

1. MS Office is pre-installed on most PCs anyway
2. Marketting - when was the last time you saw any significant publicity for OOo in a non-technical arena?

Tesco can tackle both these points head-on. They sell PCs already, so they can leverage that position to ensure they sell PCs without MS Office pre-installed (at a lower price than the ones with it installed, of course). And putting an alternative to MS Office on the shelves in the biggest supermarket in the UK, probably on the same shelf as MS office but a fraction of the price, is fantastic marketting. They will probably even go to the extent of offering PCs pre-installed with their own software instead of MS Office.

Frankly, most people still associate free software with crumby little utilities - they wouldn't *expect* a whole office suite to be available for free so they don't even look for it.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[FireFury03]

Perhaps Sourceforge should put up a "PC Essentials" list with the more mature free/open source products list on it

If someone's found Sourceforge the chances are they already know about OOo, etc. Tesco is marketting to the people who still think Internet Explorer is the best thing since sliced bread.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[massysett]

Bah, this whole thread contains the wrong question. It's obvious why the supermarket shoppers aren't using free alternatives; a better question is, why isn't Tesco selling a CD with Free/Open Source software? Slap OOo on there and charge $20 for it. None of the supermarket shoppers would be the wiser, and it saves Tesco money.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[NSIM]

You vastly over estimate the ease with which people find what they are looking for on Sourceforge, it's a marvelllous repository of software, but only if you have a pretty good idea of what you want in the first place or can spend your time browsing through the hundreds of packages with cryptic descriptions and varying levels of maturity to find what you want.
If you really want to get people hooked on free/open source software then you need to make it REALLY easy for Joe Public to find it.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[FireFury03]

why isn't Tesco selling a CD with Free/Open Source software? Slap OOo on there and charge $20 for it. None of the supermarket shoppers would be the wiser, and it saves Tesco money.

They'd have to pay a bunch of programmers to rebrand OOo since it would have to have the Tesco brand on it. Although that's not too much trouble.

When I saw the news a few days ago I did initially think "rebranded OOo".

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[FireFury03]

You vastly over estimate the ease with which people find what they are looking for on Sourceforge

I don't think I've actually ever looked for software on sourceforge - usually I find a reference to software through some other source and may end up on sourceforge but I don't _start_ my search for something there.

However, I think my comment still stands - people who know about sourceforge almost certainly already know about the high profile FOSS projects and are aware that free software can be top quality. This is not the market that Tesco are aiming at - they're aiming at the people who don't realise there are cheaper alternatives to MS Office (it never even occurs to them), let alone *free* alternatives.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[rifter]

Because the kind of person that will buy anti-virus software in a supermarket is not likely to know what to do with downloaded zip or rar file they will get from sourceforge.

Last time I checked, you could not even download oo.org anymore. You have to get it from bittorrent or edonkey, which is probably where most people here get MSOffice. I think it's a ridiculous requirement to ask the user to install a P2P program, especially something as notoriously slow as bittorrent, to install your program. :P The easiest way to get oo.org and install it now is to download a Linux ISO ( which requires a 30 minute straight ftp/http download versus a 7 day bittorent download that never completes ) and install Linux. Which is fine, but it defeats the purpose of replacing MSOFFICE.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[Anonymous Coward]

You're assuming everyone has the same techincal knowledge as the people in this forum. Very poor assumption.

The average person still equates boxed software with "legitimate" and "authoritative". Besides, most of these people wouldn't even know a) where to start looking for free alternatives or b) that said free alternatives actually exist.

Maybe Openoffice.org should start taking out Superbowl spots...

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[egypt_jimbob]

...people who still think Internet Explorer is the best thing since sliced bread.

I don't know anybody who thinks IE is the best. The people I know who use it are those that are required to (company IT policies) and those who think the big blue "e" on their desktop actually is The Internet.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[moggie_xev]

http://download.openoffice.org/2.0.3/index.html

So the big green area doesn't say download ?

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[DaMouse404]

I copied and pasted it over and over.. now I have many internets.. I might put one of them on CD..
-DaMouse

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[boingo82]

My take is that there are too many free alternatives for most people. Any time I want a simple program to, say, convert audio files, I end up spending several hours searching, finding a stack of programs that sound like they'll do what I want, and installing them one at a time only to find out that I don't like the UI or they don't do what I want how I want it. Then I have to uninstall all but one, and it ends up being a big PITA sometimes.

Of course, other times I find a complete gem of a program, but it is the sorting and trying that blows.

People like to go down and buy up Microsoft crap Office for the same reason they like to go to Panda Express instead of trying all the non-franchised Chinese places in hope of finding a better / cheaper one. Panda Express might suck, but you know what you're going to get there.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[westlake]

those who think the big blue "e" on their desktop actually is The Internet.

AOL wasn't the first or last service to drop support for Usenet. FTP, IRC and Telnet clients are as archaic and little known to most users as Archie and Veronica. The big blue e is the gateway to the Internet for the great mass of users.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[Marxist Hacker 42]

It'll be a lot easier to make progress there than at hardware sellers (Dell, HP, etc.)

Of course if we're following the theme, the hardware sellers will be Lowe's and Home Depot.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[jedidiah]

Sounds like Tucows or Ice Walkers or the SimTel MS-DOS archive.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[NSIM]

No, these are just general repositories of software. I was thinking of something more along the lines of four or five menu items, say:

Anti Virus

Office

Image editing

Email & Web

MP3 & Sound Tools

Each would list 2-3 mature applications that are freely available. Part of the problem with free software is that there is so much of it that it's bewildering to the average user, but guide them to a few choices that work well and they may be willing to give it a try.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[lpointal]

In france, we have such a site, its called Framasoft it contains not only a nice classification of softwares by domain (for Windows, Linux, MacOS), but also some articles, manuals.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[D4MO]

Looks like Tesco found their first customer!

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[moronoxyd]

Um.... the last time I downloaded OOo via BitTorrent it took all of 10 minutes zu complete.
Also downloading Linux-ISOs via BitTorrent ist lightning fast with downloadrates way above 200 kByte/s.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[WilliamSChips]

Watch out, they might not fit through the tubes.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[Peaker]

You vastly over estimate the ease with which people find what they are looking for on Sourceforge

Especially with those download quests, where you wander through at least 8 html pages in your quest to get to the damn installer already...

People very rarely care about more than the target platform, so the various alternate versions offered for download are mostly a waste of time.
People never really spend time to figure out which mirror is best, so that selection screen is a waste of time.
The "download will start shortly" is also an annoying waste of time.

So why not place 3 large download links for major platforms, that choose a mirror however, and hide the rest of the downloads elsewhere?

Imagine a world where a single link click downloads. I must be day dreaming.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[BiggyP]

It takes a whole 4 clicks from the front page, and you do need to know what OS you're running, maybe it confused the poor boy.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[drsquare]

Have you ever considered that Open Office doesn't suit their purposes? Last time I used it (about a year ago), it was very bloated and convoluted.

Maybe their Tesco Office is leaner and simpler, so support is easier and people will be more satisfied with it.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[Zagra]

Oh, I see! We who buy food from a supermarket are somehow of lower intelligence? I am 70 and I build my own PCs AND I shop at a supermarket!! How dare you suggest that we supermarketeers are of some lower order of the Human Race!

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[rifter]

http://download.openoffice.org/2.0.3/index.html

So the big green area doesn't say download ?

Yes it does, and it was not a link, but it did have a big green arrow pointing down at the bittorent and edonkey links. Thus the only working links on that site did not lead to a download for the software. Clicking on the green area did nothing.

Re:If people want an alternative to the de facto..

[rifter]

http://download.openoffice.org/2.0.3/index.html

So the big green area doesn't say download ?

Yes it does, and it was not a link, but it did have a big green arrow pointing down at the bittorent and edonkey links. Thus the only working links on that site did not lead to a download for the software. Clicking on the green area did nothing.

I was able to make the green area do something later. When I had tried before hovering on the aforementioned green area did not produce the mouseover changes associated with links, and you could click all you wanted but it was not going anywhere. So I basically assumed, although I think I have run into this before because there was some deja vu here, that the image was just that, an image, with a big green arrow pointing to the normal links, which did behave as expected, pointing to ed2k or bittorrents. After looking again at the code for the page I suspect some kind of java strangeness was involved, and given that I was looking at the page in Windows the fact I recently rebooted to clear some other oddities must be weighed in.

But it does beg the question. Especially given how much the open source community decries fanciness such as flash (which I initially suspected as the culprit given the behaviour of this embedded object) at the expense of compatability, why did the designers of the oo.org page decide to use strange java objects when a good old fashioned html link would have done better? And you have to admit a big green arrow that says download, pointing to links where one might download something, would generally be expected, well, to point to the place where you can download it. And so it does, to the ed2k and bittorrent links.

As far as the speed goes for bittorrent, I have found that you can only get something as long as other people are getting it as well because once they do they are going to shut down their clients. The typical linux distro ends up having like 3 semipermanent seeds with a blossom of others if your timing is just right. But whether you get in on the torrent when everyone else does or you end up on the tail of the dog with 3 sources to pull from that you cannot give back to, you end up with very very very slow downloads compared to straight ftp/http, or hell even scp.
I have never downloaded anything off bittorrent the size of a cd in less than 3 days, and usually what I end up with is a file that is 35-75% complete and no seeds to pull from, at which point you have to start over completely or just give up. This is exacerbated by the fact that most linux distros that are distributed primarily via this method have about 6-8 cds to download. I've even had normal pdf files take 12-20 hours through bittorrent when it would take seconds otherwise. This is with unlimited upload speeds and number of downloaders, and again it does not matter in the bittorrent protocol that you are declaring an intention to allow people to download if no one else is downloading anything from you. And as I understand it they have to be downloading the same file as you are from you or it does not count, and this meshes with my experience. Which is basically why it is going to take forever; you're almost guaranteed by probability to end up being treated the same as a leecher. And meanwhile you basically cannot use the system for anything else network related. So while I am downloading something at 2kbps and maybe one person is getting 0.5kbps download of a chunk I happen to have managed to get, I can't even get out on a web browser. Yes I am aware that the settings for how much bandwidth is allowed are the culprit here, that is rather the point. bittorrent is supposed to reward greater upload maximums with greater download maximums, and at the maximum possible, it is still sucking.

And ed2k ... I mean could they at least have proposed [EAX]mule? I mean I know it's the same network standard, but still.

Microsoft new slogan

[LiquidCoooled]

"We don't make software for anyone else."

Comes from a campaign Heinz did after supermarkets started selling own branded beans and people thought they were just repackaged Heinz.

In this case, is Tesco selling OpenOffice stuff rebranded?

Re:Microsoft new slogan

['nother poster]

In this case, is Tesco selling OpenOffice stuff rebranded?

Nope, and it says right in the article who made the software for them.

Re:Microsoft new slogan

[LiquidCoooled]

I just saw that, its Ability office and Panda AV.

Re:Microsoft new slogan

[noidentity]

They're all just "repackaged" food grown from the ground, with a few pounds of sugar thrown in for good measure.

Re:Microsoft new slogan

[DurendalMac]

Dunno, but if these guys are a Wal-Mart UK equivelant, then I wouldn't want their software anywhere NEAR my computer.

Re:Microsoft new slogan

[Anonymous Coward]

As the article says, they're selling Ability Office - see http://www.ability.com/

Ability charge 30 quid for it (the basic version); Tesco selling it en masse for 20 seems credible. That's certainly a lot less than MS Office, but it's not the 20 vs 300 numbers that some people quote - you can get MS Office Basic (word and excel only) for around 145

It's probably not competition for Office in the workplace (where any file incompatibility sends folks into something of a tailspin), but it's solid competition for the abomination that is Works - particularly if Tesco preload it on the large number of (really pretty good quality) Acer PCs and laptops they also sell.

Re:Microsoft new slogan

[Don_dumb]

Dunno, but if these guys are a Wal-Mart UK equivelant

I believe the UK Walmart is ASDA http://www.asda.co.uk/, owned by Walmart and Tesco's biggest rival.
But ethically all UK supermarkets are not to be trusted too closely, their combined buying power has allowed them to destroy british farmers, independant butchers, local bakers etc.
However it could be aruged that they have done this in the benefit of the consumer, and going up against Microsoft certainly would be in the benefit of us consumers. The more people in the UK having something other than Windows, forces organisations such as the BBC to produce for platforms other than WindowsMedia, IE and Windows.
Lets just hope it isn't just Tesco that does this.

Re:Microsoft new slogan

[Shemmie]

Tesco 'are' the British Walmart when it comes to size. I believe they just posted £1.1 billion profits for the quarter. However, they have a much better image with us British shoppers than Walmart seems to have over there in America.

As someone said earlier, the Tesco brand comes with a sense of trust, in that they manage to undercut most of their rivals, 'and' supply good quality goods. A lot of their focus is on good customer services, and (I can only speak as I find), I know my local Tesco is my first choice over any supermarket because when I take my disabled Mother shopping, they have excellant facilities, and their staff are very friendly, and willing to bend over backwards to help. It's a very simple business model that just 'works' - good staff, good customer services, low prices, good quality goods. The proof is the profits they're making, and the markets they're tackling.

They already have Tesco Broadband, Tesco VoIP, Tesco Mobile (cell phones), Tesco Loans, Credit Card, Extra (sells electronics, furniture, etc), and I'm sure many more... and they're doing an amazing trade.

Re:Microsoft new slogan

[jonwil]

What makes this "abillty office" better (for this purpose) than the windows version of Open Office?

Re:Microsoft new slogan

[grolschie]

From the link: "Latest Windows 2003 look and feel". Snort!

Re:Microsoft new slogan

[drsquare]

independant butchers, local bakers etc.

Independent butchers, bakers etc destroyed themselves through poor customer service. My local butcher's for instance is CLOSED every time I go shopping. On the other hand Tesco's is open every time I need it.

You can't close your doors and complain you're not getting business.

Re:Microsoft new slogan

[hauntingthunder]

You can also get the home/student version of office which has a licence for 3 pcs for around 100 quid in the uk.

Thats 33 quid per licence.

Want to bet the "help" line is going to be on a premium rate number

Re:Microsoft new slogan

[Dr_Barnowl]

I would suspect that what makes Ability office more attractive than OOo is that Ability is a closed-source product that requires a registration key to function, whereas OOo is licensed under the LGPL and therefore while you can charge for support, you can't legally prevent people from just copying it around as much as they like, or even just being told that "Tesco Office is really just this great free product, so why the hell should you shell out £20 for it!".

Tesco DO have a rosier image than Wal-Mart in this country, but if anything they are in a more powerful position ; they hold a whopping 31% of the grocery market, something that Wal-Mart can only consider a wet dream, even in it's home country where it commands a "mere" 19% of the market. It is commonly said that of every £7 spent in the UK, one of them is spent in Tesco.

As great as OOo is, I can't see an organization that commercially powerful choosing to put it on their shelves as a product, as the competition can undercut them every time (download the same software for zero marginal cost).

Ability must be thanking their lucky stars though.

Re:Microsoft new slogan

[Don_dumb]

I am exactly the same (although usually Sainsburys as we dont have a Tesco near), I shop on a Sunday.
Like I did say, supermarkets destroyed them, but it may well have been in the consumers interests.
For bakers (perhaps unlike butchers) they were beaten by the supermarkets deliberately underpricing (9p loaves for instance) for bread below the cost of production, in order to get people to shop there. Bakers of course couldn't sell bread for less than the price it costs to make it plus a profit. So many bakers went out of business. Fortunately the healthy eating culture is bringing them back to make filled baguettes, which is destroying the fish and chips stores. In this case the free market seems to be working.
And anyway, the butcher in a supermarket is now the local butcher.

However British farmers may have more reason to resent the supermarkets, as the purchasing power supermarkets wield isn't in either the consumers benefits or those of farmers.

Re:Microsoft new slogan

[Anonymous Coward]

Comes from a campaign Heinz did after supermarkets started selling own branded beans and people thought they were just repackaged Heinz.

You sure you are not thinking of the Kelloggs' "We don't make cereals for anyone else" campaign? I don't recall Heinz doing an ad campaign in this vein though I could have missed it since I avoid TV ads, however "We don't make beans for anyone else" didn't throw up any hits on Google and I do recall being told that Heinz do make Tesco own brand baked beans by a friend that worked for Tesco.

Great Idea

[user24]

What a cool idea! Not only are they damaging MS's market share, but also breaching the idea of alternative software to the masses. Rock on.

Re:Great Idea

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I submitted the same story (some time ago! <mumble> <mutter>) and suggested that now would be a good time to short their stock. I'm just not sure which of Tesco and Microsoft/Symantec/etc. "their" refers to here...

Re:Great Idea

[dave420]

They're just as bad as Microsoft. They bought up a large section of London's Chinatown, under the guise of creating a massive supermarket in the centre. The shops were sold, their chinese tenants evicted, and then the shops were re-opened with much higher rent (which was far higher than could be paid by the current tenants), causing half of Chinatown to stop being Chinese. Fuck Tesco.

Re:Great Idea

[thelost]

is that alternative or Alternative? The software they are distributing is not that interesting in itself, nor foss, so I guess you meant little 'a'.

A much cooler reason that this is cool is that any potential threat to MS's monopoly on the home office forces MS to innovate to stay in the competition.

I'm of the opinion though that MS Office is already an extremely good product, I just don't find the price attractive.

Re:Great Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

They also buy land they think potential competitor supermarkets might want and hold on to it to prevent said competitors opening up there. Fuck Tesco hard.

Re:Great Idea

[cliffski]

hey, lets not kid ourselves we are routing for the 'little guy' here. Tescos is one of the biggest and most powerful companies in the UK, representing 12.5% of ALL retail spending. They made 2.5 Billion pounds profit (4/7 Billion dollars) in the last year.
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4941236.stm)
  This is not your little rebellious mom n pop software company.

Re:Great Idea

[DerekLyons]

What a cool idea! Not only are they damaging MS's market share, but also breaching the idea of alternative software to the masses. Rock on.

Oh yes - replacing one near monopoly with another is a wonderful idea.

Re:Great Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

yes, because tesco will overturn and destroy MS's monopoly overnight, swiftly replacing it with theirs. Look up the definition of 'competition' sometime, eh?

Re:Great Idea

[McFadden]

Yeah, they should donate it to their rivals. Maybe even construct the supermarket for them. Competition in business is so wrong. Lets all wear flowers in our hair and sing songs.

Re:Great Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you live in the UK? Theres not a whole lot of spare land available like in the USA. If your rich-ass competitor buys up all the free land, say good bye to competition and hello to monopoly. But hey, as long as ONE company is serving 60 million people, thats just business, right?

Re:Great Idea

[imthesponge]

They shouldn't have bought the land in the first place if they planned to do nothing with it. Or is that too complicated?

Re:Great Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm no fan of Tesco, but Chinatown's a shithole full of trafficked slaves and bad food.

Re:Great Idea

[justinkz]

you act like they stole the land, and the renters were actually owners.

Re:Great Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

They're just as bad as Microsoft. They bought up a large section of London's Chinatown, under the guise of creating a massive supermarket in the centre. The shops were sold, their chinese tenants evicted, and then the shops were re-opened with much higher rent (which was far higher than could be paid by the current tenants), causing half of Chinatown to stop being Chinese. Fuck Tesco.

Right on! Because if there's one thing the world doesn't have enough of, it's the Chinese.

Re:Great Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

They shouldn't have bought the land in the first place if they planned to do nothing with it. Or is that too complicated?

They are doing something with it. They're preventing competitors from using it. Or is that too complicated?

Re:Great Idea

[drsquare]

What exactly is wrong with that? If previously the Chinese tennants were paying lower rent than other people were willing to pay, then this is merely the market correcting itself. Unless you think being Chinese entitles you to pay lower rent than the market rate?

Even though they may think they do, tennants don't own the property they rent, and the owner may charge a higher rate if they wish to do so.

Re:Great Idea

[dave420]

They lied. They said they were going to open a massive supermarket, which is bad enough (unless gentrification is cool to you). They then opened the shops right back up, and increased the rent so that the original tenants couldn't rent them back, effectively forcing them out of their place of business.

I'm "acting" like people were taken advantage of, which is obviously what happened.

Re:Great Idea

[dave420]

They lied to achieve their goal. Just because a market "corrects" itself doesn't mean it's OK. Chinese or not, forcing people to give up their businesses under a lie is not cool. Of course the tenants don't own the property, and it's not the original owners that increased the rent. Let me guess - you vote republican? :)

antivirus for food?

[whizzard]

or Tesco Antivirus (£10), which is designed to keep your PC free of malware.

Now they can get to work on an antivirus for the food they sell!

Their website is near-useless...

[MMC Monster]

As someone from the U.S., just navigating their website sucks. http://www.tesco.com/ doesn't even seem to have software, let alone a MS Office replacement.

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[julesh]

I think this is because the range hasn't actually launched yet. See pre-launch web site here.

Anyway, speaking as someone from the UK who shops at tesco regularly... yep, their website sucks.

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[DarthChris]

Tesco are a supermarket that everyone's heard of and been in to buy something or other. It makes far more advertising sense for them to put up posters in-store than an ad on the web, especially as the target audience are not the type to go directly to a supermarket's website. Those of us that buy software online are going to go to Amazon, or Play.com, or somewhere similar.

I could go on and on, but I hope I've made my point.

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[Rik Sweeney]

As someone from the U.S., just navigating their website sucks.

Well, they must be doing something right as plenty of people have no problems having food delivered to their homes.

UK only gag coming up:

Every little helps

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ability Software (makers of the office suite) has a web site with a comparison to MS Office and screen shots here:

http://www.ability.com/sales/products/abvsms_tech. php?ln=us

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[Paradise Pete]

According to the article, they make about (British pound sign) 67 for each person in the UK. That's an incredible number! If their margins are low, and presumably they are, then the average person would have to spend about BP1,000 a year in their stores. Staggering.

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[Anonymous Coward]

That being because it isn't even on sale yet.

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[Tony Hoyle]

Well that's only £83 a month. The average monthly shop per person pretty much starts there and goes up...

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[Gilmoure]

Went out to the pre-launch site. What the hell does "Every Little Helps" mean? Every Little what? What helps?!!! Damn Firefox for being English insensitive.

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[julesh]

"Every little helps" is Tesco's current marketing slogan, and is intended to mean something along the lines of "the small amounts of money you save buy buying stuff from us helps you live a happier life". Without being quite so blatant.

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[Gilmoure]

Every little bit helps. Sentences need a subject and a verb. This one pisses me off almost as much as Apple's "Think Different". Different is an adverb! It modifies Think and therefore, should be differently!

Gah!

Aaaaaaaaaugh!

Khaaaaaaaan!

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[r3m0t]

"Every Little Helps" is Tesco's slogan, repeated in every advert. It refers to stuff like 5p off this and double clubcard points on that, and people at the counter packing your bags for you (never mind that they probably use too many bags and end up crushing your tomatoes anyway), and a smile and "thank you", and all those lovely things.

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[leenoble_uk]

BTW it appears on just about everything: "Tesco: Every little helps". It's not always the most appropriate little motto. I once saw a poster in a store window. Large type:

    THIS STORE WILL BE
    CLOSED FOR 3 WEEKS
    STARTING 10/10/1998

                Tesco
      every little helps

So how does that help exactly?

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[Haeleth]

Every little bit helps. Sentences need a subject and a verb.

"Little" is the subject. It's a perfectly valid noun. Look it up in a decent dictionary if you don't believe me. My SOED lists the relevant sense as II.1: "a small quantity, piece, portion; a small thing; a trifle."

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[Gilmoure]

"Every trifle helps" sounds better to me. But, you are correct. Little is a noun. A very naughty noun, in my mind. It deserves a stern wag of the finger!

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[Richy_T]

Mmmm, custard

Rich

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[jonbryce]

Something like a fifth of all retail spending goes through Tesco tills. They are by far the largest food retailer, and one of the largest electrical retailers.

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[drsmithy]

Every Little Helps" is Tesco's slogan, repeated in every advert. It refers to stuff like 5p off this and double clubcard points on that, and people at the counter packing your bags for you (never mind that they probably use too many bags and end up crushing your tomatoes anyway), and a smile and "thank you", and all those lovely things.

This is unusual !?

Guess we must be spoilt rotten here in Australia. :)

Re:Their website is near-useless...

[drsquare]

You need to use a lot of bags at Tescos, the bags they have nowadays are barely big enough to be used as condoms.

Microsoft will not be unseated

[BadAnalogyGuy]

If you're going to skimp on your office suite, why go with something that is an unknown and costs 20 pounds? Stick with OpenOffice which has a fairly decent userbase and is free for use. Same with the AV software. AVG is available for free, so there's no benefit with going with Tesco's software.

This is an interesting idea, but I have serious doubts that anyone is going to make a dent in Microsoft's bottomline with this sort of thing.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[ScouseMouse]

As some other poster has pointed out, The sort of person who is prepared to buy software at a supermarket, is probably not the sort of person who can deal with zip files downloaded from the internet.
Its not aimed at us, so i'm sure they wont be too upset if we dont buy it.

Besides, there are people who trust the Tesco brand, so the quality is probably a moot point anyway

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[BadAnalogyGuy]

What sort of person buys their software at a supermarket?

Yeah, I better grab some milk.. Brown eggs. Not white eggs.. A loaf of whole wheat.. Tampons.. Hey! An office suite!

Who are these people?

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

['nother poster]

Because, they are aiming for the retiree who is pissed at the cost fo MS Office, but doesn't have the savy to download OpenOffice. They get everything else from Tesco, software won't be a big stretch for some.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[russ1337]

Perhaps you can get Tesco to stock OOo and AVG? I agree 100% but it comes down to the person buying baked beans for 5p a can from the discount bin. One of the posts above pointed out, they probably don't *know* where on the Internet to go for these other free products or whether to trust them (FUD). If its on the shelf next to the tinned meat and its significantly cheaper than M$ft, its certain to be a winner.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[TheRaven64]

You are seriously missing how branding works. This is not aimed at people like you. You know what Microsoft Office is, and you could probably list half a dozen competitors easily.

The average person knows more-or-less what an office suite is for (typing letters, right?). They have probably heard or the Microsoft brand. They have definitely heard of the Tesco brand. They are unlikely to have heard of the OpenOffice.org brand, or the StarOffice brand, or the AbiWord brand (or whatever). They will go into a supermarket and see 'Microsoft Office: £200, Tesco Value Office: £20.' They will know that most other Tesco Value products are similar quality (sometimes slightly lower, but not too much) than their branded equivalents, and decide that it's not worth paying an extra £180 for a branded office suite to go with their £200 computer.

The Tesco Value brand used to just be for food, but it's increased a lot recently. I own a Tesco Value toaster; it was a sixth of the price of the one it replaced, and has lasted longer. They also make most other home appliances (washing machines, etc). Typically, they fall into the no-frills-but-functional category.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[BadAnalogyGuy]

I'd be agreeing with you if not for two things.

1) Most users use the office suite that was bundled with their computer. Since most users buy their computers pre-configured, they already have their office suite needs fulfilled.

2) Most users who aren't savvy enough to download AV software are quite happy to run without it. They have no incentive to blow 10 quid on some fancy program.

I'm not saying that Tesco should be stocking OO and AVG and reaping the increased margins. I'm just saying that anyone who would be interested in a Microsoft alternative is already savvy enough to get OO and AVG on their own. Everyone else will stick with their bundled MS Works suite.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[BadAnalogyGuy]

I may be missing something crucial. Are PCs in the UK not bundled with MS software?

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[ScouseMouse]

Well apparently tesco.net turned out to be quite popular, and thats the same sort of idea, selling computer services at the checkout.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[russ1337]

good points, you got me there. Well done.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[Captain Splendid]

1) Most users use the office suite that was bundled with their computer. Since most users buy their computers pre-configured, they already have their office suite needs fulfilled.

You're right, but for a different reason: Lately, all the cheap MS boxen come shipped with the 60-day Office trial. Most people I've seen don't pay attention to any of the messages expclicitley stating this and just start using the software. 2 months later, the activation kicks in, and they're informed that for a few hundred bucks, they can keep using it.

Guess what happens next? They get a hold of a friend with an MS Office CD and install it.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[truthsearch]

What sort of person buys milk, eggs, pants, lawnchairs, TVs, drugs, and McDonalds all in the same store? I don't know either, but they all go to WalMart. The small stores in my neighborhood are my "superstore", so I don't get it either.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[doofusclam]

What sort of person buys their software at a supermarket?

Yeah, I better grab some milk.. Brown eggs. Not white eggs.. A loaf of whole wheat.. Tampons.. Hey! An office suite!

Who are these people?

This is where 'genuine advantage' will start to bite Microsoft in the ass. Whereas beforehand the clueless millions were happy with their warezed copy of Microsoft Office they'll now know it's not kosher. For them, a £20 office suite will be a deal stealer.

On a related note just how good/bad is Ability Office that Tesco are repackaging? Panda AV is ok, but does Ability (for example) read Microsoft Office files?

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[hal2814]

Zip files? What is this, the late 90's? OpenOffice is distrubuted by default in an executable package format from their openoffice.org website. From the main page, you're about 3 very obvious clicks away from download. The only thing that will keep people from using OO instead is a lack of knowledge. Most people don't know OO exists but everyone who shops at Tesco will know about their office suite.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[nine-times]

It's still partially an issue of trust. Even on the shelf next to MS, if it's way cheaper, people may not buy it because it's cheaper. Sometimes cheaper things are perceived as substandard, and so there are instances where companies will inflate their prices just to avoid the image of being a crappy bargin brand.

It's really unfortunate, too. I've recommended OOo to lots of people. People ask me how they can get MSO cheap/free, essentially asking me to pirate it, I guess. People think because I work with computers I can just hook them up with whatever they want. So I say no, but point out that they can download OOo for free, and legally. It's not even hard to find.

And lots of people come back with, "I don't want a cheap crappy, program though. I need things like spell-check and track changes!" They don't believe me when I say OOo has that stuff. I try to explain the idea of FOSS, and that it's different from crappy nag-ware and spyware they've tried in the past. Nobody seems to believe that people would offer a high-quality program for free. And these are Firefox users.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[Mad-Bassist]

Probably the same people that bought all three Lord of the Rings movies in fullscreen.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[displaced80]

They're people who buy TVs, clothes, insurance (house, car and pet), credit cards, furniture, DVD players, internet access, mobile phones (Tesco are also an MVNO) and pretty much everything under the sun from a supermarket such as Tesco.

I'm actually quite happy to see this happen. For Windows users, there's a triumvirate of Microsoft (OS, apps), Symantec ('security') and PC World (for the purchases). For the layman computer user, It's always the same product, bought from the same places.

This model has existed (as far as I know, commenting just on the UK, since that's where I live) since the beginning of the current era of computer use. The potential for Tesco to disrupt this most certainly exists. Tesco have a good track record - profit has risen from £1bn/year to £2.2bn/year in just a few years on top of well-executed moves into offering diverse ranges and expanding abroad. This will raise some eyebrows at Redmond and Wherever-the-hell-Symantec-are-based. As I noted above, every 'walk-in' PC store here offers the same old stuff no matter what. Tesco will be exposing competing products in a way that the retail PC sector hasn't yet seen (over here, at least).

Sure, it's not Open Source, and the software may not even be all that good. But I can see it selling in large numbers.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[BadAnalogyGuy]

I just tell them that it's from Sun Microsystems and that usually confuses or convinces them enough to install it.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[radish]

Windows yes, Office not usually. But that's the same in the US - you get Works if you're "lucky" but I've never seen Office as anything but an extra-cost option for consumer PCs.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[Strolls]

I may be missing something crucial. Are PCs in the UK not bundled with MS software?

Yup, but the kind of customer who buys this will be the families who have resentfully spent £300 to replace their 5-year-old Windows 98 PC and didn't realise that Word isn't a part of Windows.

They only found out that they had to buy Office as an additional component when they were unable to find it on their new PC and asked someone else for help. A friend probably installed a copy of Office 97 for them 5 years ago, and they haven't thought about it since. When the cost of a computer is a week's wages you're unlikely to want to spend another 2/3 as much again "just for some software", and Tesco have priced these offerings perfectly.

Stroller.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[bunions]

> Who are these people?

Mom, dad, meet BadAnalogyGuy. BadAnalogyGuy, this is Marty and Doris.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[Surt]

I do. Except for the clothes, which are still awful quality. But for food, walmart has the highest quality produce and the largest selection of packaged goods of any store within 20 miles, and it's the closest non-gas-station food source to where I live. They have all the drugs I need, and take my insurance, so the cost is the same as anywhere else. Their lawn chairs (and such) are the highest quality I can buy within around 50 miles, excepting the high-end places I can't afford where they would cost more than ten times as much.

I also grab my lunch at the Quizno's inside sometimes (Quiznos instead of McDonalds in our WalMart). It's the closest sub shop to where I work.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[BadAnalogyGuy]

I just checked out Dell's website. Their lowest-end "Smart Deal" model comes with Works 8.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[Hijacked Public]

You must live in a tough neighborhood.

Wal-Mart has made their money in the grocery business in part by offering a purposely limited selection in order to drive down their costs. The last time I was in one I tried to find a mango and was met with both the absence of any mangos and widespread disbelief among the staff that such a thing as a mango even existed, which is probably part of the ploy to get people to accept the hobbled selection.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[Tony Hoyle]

On a related note just how good/bad is Ability Office that Tesco are repackaging? Panda AV is ok, but does Ability (for example) read Microsoft Office files?

For the average non-business user, who cares? Provided you can write a letter to aunt flo then it's good enough.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

But for food, walmart has the highest quality produce and the largest selection of packaged goods of any store within 20 miles, and it's the closest non-gas-station food source to where I live.

What is interesting is that Walmart thrives on knocking down less competitive stores and becoming the only one in a twenty mile radius. They completely avoid more urban ares because they can't compete. I've been to the nearest Walmart. If their produce is of the same quality as the one near you, and that is your best option, I truly pity you. I'm partial to whole foods whose quality is leaps and bounds beyond Walmart, for a miniscule amount more.

Their lawn chairs (and such) are the highest quality I can buy within around 50 miles, excepting the high-end places I can't afford where they would cost more than ten times as much.

The Walmart business model is to partner with or buy people with medium quality products, or a well respected brand name. They order as much from that company as all their other customers combined, forcing that company to build or buy new production facilities, often overseas. Then, once that company has loans to pay off on those facilities, they demand they lower their prices, every year running. At this point manufacturers are trapped. They can take a huge loss and try to get rid of their new facilities, or lower quality. Almost all of them lower their quality and cut corners. Fire the guys who write the instructions, we can just ship instructions for a model we made 5 years ago. Buy cheaper parts and forget about quality assurance. In some cases Walmart has recommended to companies with profitable, respected brands that they should just slap their name on really cheap, low quality imports. In any case, the result is quality that drops constantly for each product until it is cheap crap.

I know. I had a summer job assembling lawn mowers and the like for them. It was not unusual to need three sets of parts for a single machine, simply to get enough parts properly machined enough to actually hold together. For the most part, everything they sell is junk, not just clothes. I don't shop their out of pure self-interest. Luckily, I now live somewhere where I have a number of reasonable alternatives

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[Haeleth]

Wal-Mart has made their money in the grocery business in part by offering a purposely limited selection in order to drive down their costs. The last time I was in one I tried to find a mango and was met with both the absence of any mangos and widespread disbelief among the staff that such a thing as a mango even existed, which is probably part of the ploy to get people to accept the hobbled selection.

That's crazy. For comparison, my local Tesco is expanding its fruit & veg range faster than I can keep up. They stock things now that I hadn't even heard of five years ago. Upmarket places like Waitrose have even better ranges (they stock things I still haven't heard of!), but Tesco meets my grocery needs amply.

Meanwhile, Wal-Mart in the UK struggles. Maybe they've met their match at last. I wonder if Tesco has any plans to expand stateside...

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[theskipper]

Fight back. Buy from companies that resist Walmart.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/102/open_snapp er.html

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[ambrosen]

Or even internet access. Value for £13.97 a month, Finest for £24.97 a month, and ordinary services for prices in between.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[ambrosen]

You'd be lucky to find white eggs in Tescos in the UK. They're simply not available. Blue ones are, but not white.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[WuphonsReach]

Pretty much the same reason that I haven't shopped in Wal*Mart in about 5 or 6 years now. They're simply too large for the consumer's long-term good. Rather then allowing them to wield more power by adding to their bottom line, I choose to shop elsewhere and encourage others to shop elsewhere as well.

(Plus I know how they treat their suppliers... like chattel to be driven before them.)

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[0peth]

On a related note just how good/bad is Ability Office that Tesco are repackaging? Panda AV is ok, but does Ability (for example) read Microsoft Office files?

From this side-by-side Ability Office/MS Office comparison posted above, Ability Office can open "Word, RTF, ASCII, AMI Professional, [and] HTML" files, although it admits (sort of) that MS Office can open a larger array of formats.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[Software]

What is interesting is that Walmart thrives on knocking down less competitive stores and becoming the only one in a twenty mile radius. They completely avoid more urban ares because they can't compete.

The Norwalk, Connecticut Wal-Mart is on Rt 1, the busiest road in the city and the main shopping destination. It's near Best Buy, Circuit City, Shop-Rite, Home Depot, etc. There is a Target about 7 miles away in Stamford. A similar situation applies in Albany, New York, with Wal-Mart's Crossgates Commons store. There is plenty of competition in both of these venues.

I've been to the nearest Walmart. If their produce is of the same quality as the one near you, and that is your best option, I truly pity you. I'm partial to whole foods whose quality is leaps and bounds beyond Walmart, for a miniscule amount more.

Yes, that's why Whole Foods has the nickname, "Whole Paycheck". OK, it's an exaggeration, but Whole Foods is not cheap for many items (though it is for some items).

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[Provocateur]

Tampons.. Hey! An office suite!

Who are these people?

Apparently the sort who needs to conceal the other purchase for the wife, who's sitting this one out in the car, er I mean automobile, in the parking lot, with a package of near equivalent dimensions.
 

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[tubs]

Strangely it never used to be like this - I remember walking into Boots and Whsmith and seeing rows of commodore 64s. Even places like debenhams had computer areas.

Infact at the time there were no "big" computer only shops. Really only small independent shops or stores that sold other things and had computer departments.

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[iangoldby]

Wouldn't it be great if Sainsburys, Asda, Woolworths, etc, all started offering their own branded versions of this same office suite. I can just imagine it:

"My document loads perfectly on Tesco Office, Sainsburys Office and Asda Office. It's only Microsoft Office that mucks up the formatting."

Re:Microsoft will not be unseated

[Emetophobe]

AVG is available for free, so there's no benefit with going with Tesco's software.

AVG is free for home use only, if you're a business you need to buy the professional edition.

From AVG's website:

AVG Anti-Virus Free is for private, non-commercial, single home computer use only. Use of AVG Anti-Virus Free within any organization or for commercial purposes is strictly prohibited. AVG Anti-Virus Free is absolutely not for use with any type of OEM bundling with SW, HW component or any service. Your use of AVG Anti-Virus Free shall be in accordance with and is subject to the terms and conditions set forth in the AVG Anti-Virus Free License Agreement that accompanies AVG Anti-Virus Free.

I believe Tesco is using Formjet for all their software. If you look at Formjet's site, they have pretty much all the software that Tesco will be rebranding/using.

Profits

[VJ42]

'takes one in every eight pounds spent in the UK'.

I hear this figure quoted regularly, but noone ever backs it up with a source; however they must be doing somthing right, they've made £1.1bn in profts in the last six months

Re:Profits

[onedotzero]

Watching BBC News at lunchtime today, the figure was more like 31p in every pound. Though I could have mis-parsed that. It's been a bad day.

Re:Profits

[Anonymous Coward]

£1.1Bn... That's a lot of underpants!

Anyone tried these yet?

[danmart]

From the article: The software is manufactured by a combination of Panda Software, Filestream, Ability and Software Dialog. I've used the panda software, but haven't heard of the others.

Re:Anyone tried these yet?

[tehcyder]

You quite often get (free) Ability software on PC magazine cover discs in the UK. The last time I tried it, all I can remember is a plethora of nag screens, so I stuck with Open Office.

First half resultts were released this week

[also-rr]

And Tesco took £1.1bn in PROFIT.

That has them at around $4bn US (and then some, because the latter half with Christmas is usually far more profitable than the first half) profit per year compared to $2.5bn approx for Microsoft. They aren't going to have to bow to pressure.

Walmart (who do compete in the UK after buying ASDA) were past $10bn in 2005 by comparison.

Re:First half resultts were released this week

[Anonymous Coward]

"That has them at around $4bn US (and then some, because the latter half with Christmas is usually far more profitable than the first half) profit per year compared to $2.5bn approx for Microsoft. They aren't going to have to bow to pressure."

How did this get modded informative? Try 12 billion, not 2.5 billion in profits.

no mention on the website

[oscartheduck]

Has anyone been to a tesco and confirmed this? I checked their website and the nearest they had for office http://direct.tesco.com/search/default.aspx?search =office&confirm.x=0&confirm.y=0was office chairs. Google mentions press releases that confirm this, but no one seems to know exactly what the office suite contains, and most importantly I couldn't find any mention of compatability with MS Office. If it *is* compatible with Office, that'd be kind of neat.

Of course, I suspect, like many others, that's it's just repackaged OpenOffice.org, but we'll have to see.

Re:no mention on the website

[tolan-b]

"The software is developed by Crawley-based Formjet PLC, which includes the anti-virus developer Panda Software and Ability Software, maker of the Ability office suite."

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34 800

Re:no mention on the website

[tolan-b]

Oops.. bad form replying to myself but I forgot to mention that they claim Office compatibility.

Re:no mention on the website

[oscartheduck]

Yeah, the software they're distributing not only claims office compatability, it claims to look like office too:
http://www.ability.com/v4/newv4.php?ln=us

Re:no mention on the website

[malsdavis]

Their website does not list it because it is not available yet!
The BBC has a story on it citing a Tesco public statement.

From the bbc article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5396488.stm
"Tesco is to launch a range of budget own-brand PC software, in a move that will pitch the grocery giant against the likes of Microsoft and Symantec."

i.e. They will soon be releasing it, when it's released, I'm sure it will be on their website.

Re:old news...

['nother poster]

Where do you think Zonk gets all of the "Anonymousy Submitted" stories that he puts up as editor?

Alternatives

[Apocalypse111]

Having alternatives is nice, and I'm all for breaking MS's near-monopoly in this area, but the big question is about quality: do these products do the job, and do it well? Do they offer analogs to the features that many MS Office users have come to love and depend on? Do they read Office formats?

Re:Alternatives

[jimicus]

It's an existing bunch of packages, possibly rebranded (that doesn't seem to be very clear yet) and sold at a tenth the price. The reception is likely to be exactly the same as it is to all Tesco's other "value"-branded products: cheap, does the job, not as pretty or as functional as the competition but at a tenth the price who's complaining? Plenty will take up the offer and not complain, particularly as each successive version of office becomes harder to pirate.

You know, before Microsoft gained an effective monopoly in office suites, there were plenty of others. WordPerfect office suite, Lotus SmartSuite. Why can't there be again?

Re:Alternatives

[Apocalypse111]

Why can't there be again?

I'd love to see there be more. I'm just saying that it'd be hard to break the monopoly is all. I hope it works out for them.

Re:Alternatives

[rfreedman]

Having alternatives is nice, and I'm all for breaking MS's near-monopoly in this area, but the big question is about quality: do these products do the job, and do it well?

Is that really a requirement? Microsoft's products are not what I'd call 'quality', nor do they tend to do the job well...they just have a lot of 'features'.

Re:Alternatives

[ccp]

Is that really a requirement? Microsoft's products are not what I'd call 'quality', nor do they tend to do the job well...they just have a lot of 'features'.

Out of mod points, so please receive my virtual +1, Insightful.

Cheers,
CC

Summary

[bfree]

by the guys ... who make ... Ability Office and Panda Antivirus ... Tesco-specific products ... unique in design.

I wonder if they will get their PC suppliers to install their software by default?

Re:Summary

[TheRaven64]

Tesco are a PC supplier. When you walk into a large Tesco, the first thing you see is a large row of shelves stacked high with boxed PCs. I haven't checked to see if there are Tesco Value PCs, but I wouldn't be at all surprised. With the volumes they ship, I would imagine they can ask their wholesaler to bundle pretty much whatever they want.

perhaps this is just a lead in to a deal with MS ?

[maharg]

from http://www.formjetplc.com/231-061002-Tesco-announc ement.htm

The software will also be sold in conjunction with computer hardware, following Tesco's entry into this market earlier this year, and via tesco.com.

Re:old news...

[pyros]

it's ok, we still respect your amazing non-FP |_337|\|355

Re:Tesco == big

[vladrac25]

I think you'll find that Tesco are responsible for £1 in every £5 spent on food, not £1 in every £5

Is that OsCommerce?

[Tei]

I have checked that "Tesco" company trough a few links, and ended here:

http://www.tescodvdrental.com/visitor/browse.html? node_id=6111&parent_node_id=6095

Is that OsCommerce? because the Skin looks almost like OsCommerce. The urls dont look like OsCommerce, but anyway...

Example osCommerce:
http://demo.oscommerce.com/index.php?cPath=2

Re:Is that OsCommerce?

[ambrosen]

Well, it's exactly the same skin that they use for their webmail, so I think it's probably just their design.

Microsoft Whould Worry More About Free Software

[matt74441]

I can safely say that Microsoft really doesn't care about crappy software released by a supermarket. There are already free versions of Office out there and free AntiVirus products that outperform commercial products. Its these products that Microsoft worries about.

Re:Microsoft Whould Worry More About Free Software

[xs650]

Joe 6-Pack is more likely to pay $20 for "brand" name software even if it is "Tesco" or "Safeway" than use free software made by a bunch of hippies (Joe 6-Pack's perception, not mine).

Re:Microsoft Whould Worry More About Free Software

[Anonymous Coward]

True, but at least in the U.S. Joe 6-pack is even more likely to download it off the net for free.

Re:Microsoft Whould Worry More About Free Software

[jimicus]

There's plenty of middle ground - people who've done exactly this then had to call that geeky kid up the street when their PC started crawling, only to get a telling off for installing every shitty thing they could find online.

That's the target market, and I reckon it's plenty big enough - particularly for a product where someone else has gone to the expense of developing it (after all, it's

Am I the only one ...

[LaughingCoder]

who thinks that the vast majority of MS Office purchases (like 95%) are businesses? last time I checked, businesses didn't shop at Walmart or their equivalent when purchasing their software. Now perhaps Joe Random User might buy this stuff, but that won't put a dent in MS sales, other than perhaps the "Student Edition" of Office.

Re:Am I the only one ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Most employment is by small businesses and small business frequently shops at Wal-Mart (and Sam's club, owned by Wal-Mart).

Re:Am I the only one ...

[Pantero Blanco]

Well, if you include educational institutions and city/county governments as "businesses", then you're probably right. Most of their employees use the company CDs (or copies of them) at home. Students can generally get a copy for almost nothing at the campus bookstore, if they want it.

I honestly don't know a home user that's purchased a copy of Office at anything close to full price since 2000.

Re:Am I the only one ...

[moggie_xev]

This happened before I joined my current company, although I do believe it to be true.

Tesco once imported a large number of e-macs, these where quiet cheap. We use lots of macs. So the it department went to the nearest big Tesco and bought their stock ( about 20 of them ). Apparently one of the guys put it on his credit card and got the loyaty "points". Not all buisness are the same some thing differently.

Ps the company is successfull and is not so small.

Re:Am I the only one ...

[FractalZone]

who thinks that the vast majority of MS Office purchases (like 95%) are businesses? last time I checked, businesses didn't shop at Walmart or their equivalent when purchasing their software.

Can you say "Sam's Club"? Let's not forget about "walmart.com", either. Although I have been a Sam's Club member for most of my adult life (about two decades), I was surprised to find that many small- and some medium-sized businesses do a lot of their shopping at Sam's Club. I thought the business angle was there to emphasis the "warehouse store" hype, but apparently if you own a restaurant and need supplies, Sam's Club is not bad, especially if you need them yesterday. A lot of business people do not particularly like computers but know they need to use them. It is terribly convenient to grab HW and/or SW when one is buying the week's mundane crap at Wally World.

I suspect that all of what I said above applies to the shoppers, businesses and stores in the UK as well as the US. I have worked at an major U.S. office supply (chain) store when I was between geek jobs recently and found that a lot of customers would buy computers or software the way they buy office furniture or supplies -- without much research...almost on impulse. That is especially true when a big sale is going on. People will come in for the sale on a computer and end up buying non-sale related stuff while they are there.

Think about how many people will buy a store brand (nearly generic) of an item when it sits right next to the well known branded good and the salesperson says it is a much better deal. Seeing the MS product sitting next to a relatively unknown product that costs maybe 1/3 as much is enough to convince some tightwads to take a chance on a strange office suite, especially if it does pretty much was MS Office does in much the same manner. Yes, people trust sales people on such matters, far more than many geeks would believe. MS has a better time (at retail) with Windows because almost no OTS computers come with Linux or some other OS installed. I am fairly sure that is why MS has bundled Office trial ware with more and more systems these days... "The first two months are free!" *snicker*

Re:old news...

[VJ42]

I submitted it this morning(11 hrs ago), with more info in my summary. Same thing happened:

UKs Biggest retailer starts own-brand software Tuesday October 03, @09:00AM Rejected

*watches karma burning*

They undercut Apple too

[Andy_R]

Tesco here in Britain have Apple iBooks for an amazing £0.03 less than the Apple website price!

Re:They undercut Apple too

[igorthefiend]

Yeah, but you get a buttload of Clubcard points with that.

Re:They undercut Apple too

[tehcyder]

Tesco here in Britain have Apple iBooks

Blimey, at my local Tesco I'm just grateful if they have bread, milk and sausages in stock at the same time.

Re:old news...

[gEvil (beta)]

Where do you think Zonk gets all of the "Anonymousy Submitted" stories that he puts up as editor?

From the anonymous coward who claims he submitted this story three days ago?

tone?

[kebes]

The tone of TFA confuses me. It's clearly anti-tesco (anti-big-business?), with phrases such as:

The supermarket chain may be saving the consumer hundreds of pounds (MS Office can cost in excess of £300), but it's already making more money than it presumably knows what to do with.

Huh? Since when do companies make more money than they know what to do with? The profits are reinvested and/or end up with investors. And since when is it a "bad thing" for a company to turn a profit.

I understand the anti-Wallmart argument where 'the little guy' is driven out of business, but TFA is describing how Tesco undercuts Microsoft and (see 'update' at the bottom) major media outlets. It is acting as if competition between massive multinational, multi-billion dollar companies is 'mean' and 'not fair.'

That, to me, makes no sense. Competition in any marketplace is typically good for the consumers since it keeps prices at a reasonable level, forces companies to innovate, and forces companies to compete for customers!

I wish Tesco plenty of success in their attempt to undercut software in this fashion. If they can use their brand-name to get people to realize that software needn't be so expensive (and moreover to realize that alternatives are viable), this is a net positive.

Re:tone?

[Anonymous Coward]

"The profits are reinvested and/or end up with investors"

I wish this were always the case. All too often it goes to disgustingly bloated executive salaries and bonuses.

Re:tone?

[Chacham]

Huh? Since when do companies make more money than they know what to do with?

On why most small businesses fail. Reasons include the owner not delegating, not having a business plan for growth, and not knowing where to spend money. Something like eighty percent of small businesses fail for this reason within three-to-five years. Ergo, if a business is successful, they probably do know where to put their money. But, it still remains as a childish insult, calling them "small" and "inexperienced".

So, while you're overall point is on the mark, this particular nudge is incorrect.

Re:tone?

[zippthorne]

There's a free-market solution to that as well. If they do it too much, the investors (most of whom are institutional.. i.e. mutual funds) will withdraw, depressing the price. Which leads to a situation where the company's assets are more valuable than the company itself. Which leads to the ol' leveraged buyout & selloff.

I'll bet you thought the sharks provided no useful economic service in occupying their little niche.

Re:tone?

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with you and think the company should offer whatever product it thinks will increase its customer base and profits. However it is a common phenomenon for large companies to have more money than they know what to do with. Investors only rarely get their money back in this way. In the early 80's companies figured out that people had stopped investing in companies and started trading stocks. This means people made money of the stock price not the actual return on investment so dividends dried up and the culture of short term gain for stock price goodness was born. Happily the dot com crash did bring the "investor" back into vogue and companies are starting to rediscover the wisdom of the build a strong business that returns its profits to investors strategy. If this continues we should see a decrease in market volitility in exchange for dividends being brought back and licked to actual profitablilty.

Anyway back to the point. Very large profitable companies (we should all have this problem) sometimes make more money than they have ideas to spend it on. Different companies handle this differently Wal Mart, Microsoft and the oil companies tend to store massive cash reserves and keep doing business as usual contributing to the stagnation of the economy. More resposable companies hire better management with new ideas and some companies like Google just throw money at every crazy Idea they can until something sticks and makes more money.

SO after that rambeling mess it currently is not popular to return money to investors and soemtimes it is just hard to spend the huge wave of cash that some large succesful businesses generate.

Although if they wish to remain on top they will need to distribute the money in reserve properly. Since this is Slashdot I should mention perhaps Microsoft should have spent a little more of that massive reserve on making Vista not suck.

Re:tone?

[esme]

And since when is it a "bad thing" for a company to turn a profit.

Perhaps you're not terribly familiar with the English and their attitudes, but they are much more likely to regard success with suspicion, if not hostility, than Americans are. And given the other bit in the blurb (that Tesco takes in 1 of every 8 pounds spent in the UK), you can imagine that many of the anti-success and anti-corporate attitudes that apply to Walmart here apply to Tesco in the UK.

I lived in the UK for a couple of years, and a new Tesco store opened in my neighborhood while I was there. There was a lot of hue and cry about the impact on local businesses at the time, and it did remind me a lot of the anti-Walmart sentiment in the US. Though the snobbish aspect wasn't there as much, since Tesco tends to have better quality than Walmart. I would never shop at Walmart (or Asda, Walmart's UK branch), but I happily shopped at the new Tesco, since it was closer and the quality was indistinguishable from Sainsbury's (the other, slightly more upscale, supermarket in the area).

-Esme

Re:tone?

[raddan]

I wish Tesco plenty of success in their attempt to undercut software in this fashion. If they can use their brand-name to get people to realize that software needn't be so expensive (and moreover to realize that alternatives are viable), this is a net positive.

Oh, no, Microsoft's prices are totally justified. Have you ever seen how mind-bogglingly fucked-up Active Directory is? It takes legions of programmers to write software that bad. That there's some expensive shit.

Re:tone?

[wfberg]

Huh? Since when do companies make more money than they know what to do with? The profits are reinvested and/or end up with investors.

For a publically owned corporation, paying out dividends to stockholders is a bad thing. Why? Because it shows that you don't know what to do with your money! The thinking is that a corporation should be able to invest back in itself, and that investment should be the best investment it can make, otherwise it's obviously in the business of being a less wise investment than putting your money into something else. Basically, unless a corporation is shouting "come on! pump money into us! we know how to spend it for you!" it's showing a lack of selfconfidence.

That's why often corporations choose not to pay out dividends, but instead go on mergers&acquisitions hunt, launch vanity projects, etc.

Re:tone?

[smoker2]

It's because of people like Tesco, Sainsburys, Walmart that everybody needs a car.
Before the supermarket, there were thing called grocers, butchers, fishmongers etc etc. In other words, people making a living from selling a product locally.
They are money grabbing bastards, and they even buy land, and then put a covenant on it that means no-one else can build a supermarket on it.
And everybody complains about microsoft ....

Re:tone?

[OldManAndTheC]

Executive 1: Hey, listen to this: according to Slashdot, when companies make money, "The profits are reinvested and/or end up with investors"

Executive 2: Oh. Well, yes of course. (takes another sip of Cristal)

Executive 1: Quite right. (gazes out window of corporate jet)

Executive 2: Heh.

Executive 1: (chortles)

Executive 2: Haha!

Executive 1: Heehee (giggles)

Executive 2: HAHAHAHAHA! (spills caviar onto leather seat)

Executive 1: HAHAHA! (snort) HAHAHA! HAHA! Ohhh God!

Re:tone?

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you're not terribly familiar with the English and their attitudes, but they are much more likely to regard success with suspicion, if not hostility, than Americans are.

That's a very sweeping generalization and a bit of an out-of-date cliche. I'm English myself, and I see this differently. Some sucessful people and companies are widely admired and seen as role models. Some sucessful companies and people are detested.
If you are seen to be giving the consumer a good deal people will like and trust you. Many people rich and poor like and trust Tesco and buy a huge range of goods from them. The exceedingly rich Richard Branson is widely admired and seen as a top role model by young people according to surveys.
The companies which are detested are those that treat their customers like shit - for example, the private water companies who have a (supposedly regulated) monopoly and make huge profits while 25% of the water leaks away and whose 'help desk' takes 30 minutes to get through to to make a simple billing query.
Other companies detested are those which every single year give 20%+ rises to those at the top while they sack staff and massively underperform the relevant share index. People resent that many of those at the top reap massive rewards for success and failure alike; they see top managers getting sacked for failure (share price collapse etc.) and being given as their payoff for failure more than an average person earns in a lifetime.
People admire sucess through hard work, innovative ideas or good quality customer service, or a company growing and providing reasonable jobs for more people.

Re:tone?

[GigsVT]

The supermarkets provided a product that was good enough, with huge efficiency gains. It's a huge capitalist success story, thousands of inefficient small businesses wasting resources replaced by efficient large companies that allow everyone to be richer.

If the small companies provided the same offering at a lower price (or a better offering at a higher price that was worth it), then they would still be around, it's as simple as that. The ones that did offer such a thing are indeed still around. A majority of the commerce in the US is still small-to-medium businesses. I suspect it's a similar situation in most places.

Re:tone?

[aybiss]

And since when is it a "bad thing" for a company to turn a profit.

Well, it isn't a bad thing in itself. See the idea is that some portion of the general population owns this company, and can direct it to spend its cash on its employees and on improving its services and/or products. The excess will be circulated amongst other people who will in turn spend it on other products.

If the companies weren't owned by the same bunch of really rich people who don't actually do any work anyway, and if the cash didn't stagnate in these people's pockets while the rest of us can't get pay increases in line with the inflation they cause, then there would be no problem. If you look at how impossible it is to get non-user-forum support for just about any piece of software these days you'll see just how little of doing business has anything to do with doing business.

And what about the results? Does the price of software go down? Do the employees (that were still left) get a pay rise? No, more money gets taken out of circulation and for some reason we have these 'economic crises' in which interest rates or fees affecting people, not companies, are increased or created in order to fill the gap.

IMO, economics in our world is one big pyramid scheme: it just seems that everyone is happy with it. I'm afraid I must agree that under our present economic and legal systems, companies making billion dollar profits that they then sit on is definitely a Bad Thing (TM).

Re:tone?

[mgblst]

I hate tescos, but that isn't important.

The only thing that can save us now, is to pit these huge companies against each other. They are the only ones with enough money and muscle to compete against each other. If we want a company to improve it products (Microsoft), or sell them cheaper, then we need to get another company to take them on on their turf.

Of course, I am still routing for the whole open-source/ free software thing.

Re:tone?

[drsquare]

It's because of people like Tesco, Sainsburys, Walmart that everybody needs a car.
Before the supermarket, there were thing called grocers, butchers, fishmongers etc etc. In other words, people making a living from selling a product locally.

They still exist, it's just that no-one wants to use them because they're absymal. Believe it or not we don't all like trapsing round dozens of little shops in the rain, putting up with dreadful, inconsistent customer service and poor product variety.

Some background information

[lonesometrainer]

According to: http://www.digitmag.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=62 27 the company coopertating with Tesco is FormJet. They'll distribute via http://www.tescosoftware.com/. FormJet has a Website online (a bit difficult to find from their homepage) where the products are listed: http://www.formjetplc.com/500-products.htm. They list an office suite there called "Ability Office".

The "Ability Office" website is at: http://www.ability.com/sales/products/office.php?l n=en and has a wikipedia article at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ability_Office.

This is not just one of the usual OpenOffice forks.

Re:Some background information

[EvilMagnus]

Holy Return of Obscure Software, Batman!

I used to use Ability Office back when it was a DOS-based, x86 text word processor, spreadsheet and database in the late 1980s, early 90s.

That thing just won't die!

Re:Some background information

[Hijacked Public]

I wish Bank Street Writer would make a comeback.

Re:Some background information

[LordSnooty]

Indeed, wiki tells us it was first released in 1985 - it's nearly as old as Word itself.

Office Software

[tyleroar]

The office software is called Ability and will just be branded as Tesco. More information about Ability here. The website lists their entire office suite at a cost of $70 (US). The individual packages (Word processing, spreadsheet, database, paint, presentation, photo album) are available for $27.90 each. 20 Pounds = $37 so that's considerable savings. The interface is appears to be a straight clone of Microsoft's office suite. It is able to open and save to Microsoft Office formats, no idea on how well, tho.

Re:Office Software

[sxltrex]

I love the fact that they call their Office clone interface "industry-standard look and feel". As MS proved in court, look and feel are not protected by copyright. Am I the only one amused by this? :-)

Re:Office Software

[Anonymous Coward]

Has anyone considered that the new version of MS Office will by default save in a format not compatible with older versions of MS Office (eg docx instead of doc for Word)- thus forcing businesses on the "upgrade" treadmill just to be able to read documents sent them by other companies? Older versions of MS office cannot open files created by Office 2007 BETA 2.

While OpenOffice.org, Star Office and Ability Office are about 90% (give or take) compatible with the current MS Word, Powerpoint and Excel, they will all require a major rewrite to keep up with the the new Office 2007. Is this just going to give customers a bad experience with alternative, ie non-MS, software when they find they cannot open files emailed to them from their friend, local government office, whatever?

I think its a good idea

[Bender0x7D1]

I think this is a great thing. While it is less expensive to download free alternatives from the Internet, there are a lot of people who don't trust that method, or don't have the bandwidth to support it. Anything that gets a different name out there is good for competition, which is good for the customer. I think it would have been better to have rolled it out in August - just in time for back-to-school shopping. You could pick up notebooks, pencils, crayons and an office suite for your kids.

Another big plus is the name recognition. Even if products are identical except for the brand name attached, people will buy the name brand. There is also a lot of power in the store's generic brand since it becomes a known brand - even if it is for everything from toothpaste to pasta to paper towels. This should address the fear of the unknown - (read software that doesn't work and is crap) since there is a known name AND a physical location to back it up.

While I doubt this will cause Microsoft any serious worries, I think it will still be a decent venture for Tesco. Even better would be if they brand open-source software directly. Need an OS? TescoBSD. Need to do some image manipulation? TescoGIMP. The cost could be minimal since it would only have to cover the media and the cost of some shelf space - so $5 or less. Or maybe they could charge more (since a lot of people don't trust "cheap" products) with half of the profits feeding back into the open-source community.

hardware?

[gEvil (beta)]

When are they going to start selling hardware? I wan't my USB Fish'n'Chips!

Re:hardware?

[julesh]

When are they going to start selling hardware?

Err... they already do. A friend recently acquired a P4 3.0GHz with 15" TFT screen from them for (IIRC) about £400.

Re:hardware?

[devstuff]

They do already, I was in a store the other day where you could get a value keyboard or mouse. They had monitors and all things that you would expect to find in staples.

Confirmation:

[Tei]

Yes. If you check other urls, you will found a pattern. Is exactly OsCommerce, is masked trough a url_rewrite, but anyway.

Nice to see OsCommerce is soo sucesfull! :D

UK equivalent of Wal-Mart?!!?!?

[NekoXP]

The UK equivalent of Wal-Mart is ... ASDA Wal-Mart.

Next you will be saying the dolphins in a football field circling the moon equivalent, right?

Re:UK equivalent of Wal-Mart?!!?!?

[squidreplicator]

I think "equivalent" in this case means "massive leader in the supermarket industry" in the UK... which they are.

Re:UK equivalent of Wal-Mart?!!?!?

[C10H14N2]

I puzzled on the Tesco=WalMart as well. Tesco is big, but it is a pretty distinctly different experience from WalMart. For one, they're not all exactly-the-goddamned-same. Hell, some feel like normal department stores.

Re:UK equivalent of Wal-Mart?!!?!?

[NekoXP]

Indeed. Tesco used to sell fruit and veg though, the explosion into DVDs and clothing lines etc. is Wal-Mart alike but considering the UK has an ACTIVE WAL-MART SUBSIDIARY and REAL WAL-MART BRANDED STORES, Tesco is about as far from the UK equivalent of Wal-Mart as my local supermarket in Texas is the Texas equivalent of Wal-Mart (there is a real Wal-Mart about 6 blocks away, natch)

Re:UK equivalent of Wal-Mart?!!?!?

[squiggleslash]

Wal*Mart isn't a supermarket though. (Well, larger Wal*Marts have a supermarket inside them, but if that makes them comparable to Tesco, then you might just as well compare them to HMV or Dixons.)

If you're in the UK, the nearest equivalent would probably be Woolworths. Except it's about 10x bigger. And has more stuff.

Re:old news...

[gsmraxe]

Have you seen that commercial, where the employees are sitting at a meeting and one says to use fedex shipping to save money? Everyone ignores him, the guy sitting at the head of the table says the same thing and everyone agrees. Because he made a hand motion. Next time, make a hand motion and maybe you'll get your story posted =D

Turnover

[Colin Smith]

Nah, it's bollocks. Tesco are big, but their turnover is around 35 billion pounds. If the one in eight figure was correct national spending would be just 280 billion. Clearly utter bullshit.

Re:Turnover

[julesh]

That would be approximately £4,000 per capita. I'd say that's a plausible figure for _general retail_ spending, perhaps. Obviously if you include home purchases, rental, other big purchases (cars, etc.), utilities and so on it'll be dwarfed.

Re:Turnover

[meringuoid]

Tesco are big, but their turnover is around 35 billion pounds. If the one in eight figure was correct national spending would be just 280 billion.

The British GNP is about a trillion pounds, so if Tesco got one pound in eight of all money spent in the UK they'd expect a turnover of some £125 billion. But I doubt that's the statistic used here. Tesco probably do get something like one pound in eight of all retail spending. Money spent in person in shops. Not money spent on, say, insurance, or mortgages, or utility bills, or by the government.

Although Tesco have started selling insurance recently...

Re:Turnover

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Tesco probably do get something like one pound in eight of all retail spending.

Yes, that is where the figure comes from. IIRC, people were getting this right when the figure first started making it into articles, but Chinese whispers appear to have corrupted the definition somewhere along the line.

Re:Their webserver is Windows Server 2003 IIS!!!

[British]

But Netcraft is reporting that their website runs Windows Server 2003. Yeah, they wont use free market leading webserver Apache. And they think they can peddle alternatives to office.

Nothing to see here, move along.

Oh drop the linux advocacy for a second. Where does it require that you have to run/distribute OSS to sell an Office alternative? Most likely their web services are done by a different company or branch. As if Ma & Pa Kettle(whatever the UK equivalent is) are going to check the OS the webserver's run on.

Re:Their webserver is Windows Server 2003 IIS!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

How is that relevent? The software they are releasing is proprietary and only runs on Windows. There's no reason to expect them to use free software.

Tesco is using...

[Sfing_ter]

Formjet PLC for the software, Formjet owns:
        * Panda Software (UK) distributes Panda Software antivirus and security products in the UK.

        * Ability Software International distributes a powerful suite of office products.

        * FileStream (UK) is involved in applications ranging from the backup of computer resources to highly sophistcated graphics solutions.

        * Software Dialog UK is a specialist security reseller to the corporate marketplace.

        * South Coast Distribution is an established supplier to the OEM market.

        * Ideal Innovations.co.uk is an online marketplace. It services the electronic trading requirements of the Formjet Group and third party vendors.

So I think we can see where this is going, Panda Anti-Virus, and Ability Office 4 branded for Tesco... c'est la vie say the old folks, it just goes to show you never can tell.

Mince == Hamburger?

[Hogwash McFly]

I'm curious as to why hamburger was bracketed after raw mince in the summary. Mince is just meat put through a Play-Doh extruder, usually beef or lamb. Yes, you can make your own hamburgers out of mince, but the majority of people in the UK buy mince for dishes like spaghetti bolognese and shepherd's pie. Do Americans not buy raw mince at supermarkets? If so, is it labelled 'hamburger'? To me, this is as strange as having 'potatoes (french fries)' in the summary.

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[radish]

Yes, mince is called hamburger in the US. Kind of like ground pork in the UK is usually called sausage meat even though it can be used for more than just sausages. So the summary was translating for the USians as mince doesn't really mean much as a noun here.

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[nuggz]

Ground beef is often called Hamburger in North America. It is almost exclusively beef.

The formed disk is often called a hamburger patty. While "a hamburger" would be the sandwich.

The term mince is not used to my knowledge, and might cause confusion with mincemeat which has no meat.

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[idugcoal]

to answer your question, however off topic: in california, we've always just called it "ground beef," as far back as i can remember.

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[Anonymous Coward]

More accurate translation would be "ground beef" (or pork, lamb, etc.).

So no, there's no "mince" in America, or, for that matter, sheperd's pie (well not commonly), but there are "English Muffins".

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[Bloke down the pub]

Do Americans not buy raw mince at supermarkets? If so, is it labelled 'hamburger'?

Yes they do, and yes it is.

Doesn't make any sense to me either as a) there's 101 other things you could make from it and b) people who want hamburgers usually buy them ready made, but there you go.

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[Logic and Reason]

Contrary to the other posters, I've seen it labelled in supermarkets as "ground beef" or "ground chuck," but never "hamburger." Then again, maybe I just haven't been paying enough attention.

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[brewpoo]

Where I live (NY), generally it is called "chopped meat" and specifically ground beef, ground pork, etc.

And it is made exactly as you describe it.

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, the toilet paper here is labelled "facial" quality. I keep looking for the anal quality.

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[miyako]

In the US it is generally labled "ground $meat" but it is almost universally referred to as hamburger or hamburger meat.
I doubt many in the US have ever heard the term mince.

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[nra1871]

Ready made? Ugh, like 50 cents a pound more for small patties? Hell no, buy a few pounds of ground meat and make nice big burgers yourself, seasoned with some worcestershire, cooked over charcoal grill.....ok gotta wipe off this drool now.

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[Andrewkov]

Yep, we call it ground beef in Canada too. Not many people here call it hamburger (and nobody calls it mince).

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[Phroggy]

Ground beef is commonly referred to as hamburger, but the actual package in the supermarket is labeled ground beef. You can also buy ground turkey, but I don't recall seeing other ground meats for sale. You can probably pick whatever meat you want and ask them to grind it for you, but it's not particularly common.

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[Anonymous Coward]

Some part of "usually" you don't understand, numbnuts? Heck, most fat imbeciles can't even use a microwave, let alone actually cook anything from basic ingeredients.

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[cruachan]

Also to brand them as a cheap retailer is rather superficial as they sell quite a lot of better quality stuff too - my local one, medium sized I guess, has probably two different brands of extra-virgin olive oil - not prime quality, but perfectly acceptable stuff. The stock also includes things like single estate coffe, vanilla pods, several malt whiskys and the like. Generally they occupy a middle position in the market above the likes of ASDA (i.e. wal-mart) and the Netto etc, but below Waitrose and to some extent Sainsburys.

The perception of being cheap may be because they were indeed down the bottom end of the market when they first became established as a chain in the late 1970s, but they apparently made a determined effort to move upmarket in the late 80s

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[revlayle]

You can find ground pork around here readily (Tulsa, Oklahoma).

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Ready made? Ugh, like 50 cents a pound more for small patties? Hell no...

If you think that's bad, wait till you see the "microwave ready" potatoes. Individual potatoes, wrapped in shrink wrap, for $.80 each. For the price of two you can get a 10 pound bag of the same, minus the shrink wrap. When I first saw them I thought, "how absurd, who would buy that?" Now, years later, they are in all the stores in the area. My girlfriend gets angry every time she sees them.

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[nra1871]

The only benefit I could see to that is that with almost every bag of potatoes I get, more than half go rotten. I just don't eat enough to justify a bag. On the other hand tossing it all out doesn't cost me any more, so I still buy the bags.

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[DylanQuixote]

"I'll make mincemeat outta you!"

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[Pinkybum]

No the parent was really saying (although not explicitly) the summary should read: mince (ground beef). I'm not convinced that supermarkets actually label their ground beef "hamburger meat" that much, at least not in my experience.

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[permawired]

Um, I don't know where you shop in the US.... At all the grocery stores in my area (Arizona) it's called "ground beef"

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[drsquare]

Home made burgers are shit. They don't keep their shape (turn into balls when you grill them), and they don't taste of anything.

Re:Mince == Hamburger?

[nra1871]

Apparently you grew up in a home where people didn't know how to cook...

What is Tesco?

[puppetman]

Can someone from the UK fill us ignorant North Americans in on Tesco?

It sounds like a public company (they announce profits). Who owns them (the big stake holders)?

Are they a company (like Ikea) that makes an effort to have their products recyclable? Do they donate money to charities? Do they outsource their jobs to India and use Chinese labour to make most of their products? Are they know for poor labour practices and letting split-open bags of fertilizer sit in a parking lot next to a river (both of which Walmart does).

What does cheap value food mean? If you get a "value" edition, it means stripped down OR a good price for what you get. Cheap is obvious.

Re:What is Tesco?

[radish]

Tesco are the largest supermarket chain in the country. Their primary business is food and groceries, but they led the charge into other product types (clothes, music, etc) in a similar way to Walmart in the US - all of the major UK supermarket chains have followed suit. In terms of target market, I'd say they aim right to the middle. Asda (owned by Walmart) is (IMHO) cheaper and sells lower quality stuff. Waitrose is a higher end, more expensive brand. Tesco sit with Sainsbury right in the middle ground. They sell all the major third party brands as well as their own lower cost brands.

I have no idea who the major shareholders are, but I'm sure you can find out with a little digging, they are a publically traded company. Charity, recycling etc - well they do as much as they need to maintain a good public image, but they don't have any reputation for being particularly good or bad in that regard. I'm unaware of any particular hatred of Tesco (certainly nothing of the scale as often directed towards Walmart) - in particular remember that there's nowhere near the scope for bad labour practises in the UK compared to the US. A lot of the benefits provided by US employers are provided by the state in the UK. One thing I have heard complaints about is them using their buying power to extract concessions from suppliers, but that's capitalism and happens with all big companies.

Re:What is Tesco?

[squidreplicator]

Tesco are 1 of the large supermarket companies in the UK - shareholder owned. IMO Tesco are pretty bad, I'm not sure about their ethics concerning clothing etc. (as the article indicates they're fast moving into non-food sales) but as big businesses can they are pretty willing to use their large cash resevoirs to "shut down local businesses, lobby government, force planning permision (local councils are too poor to continuously fight appeals for planning permision etc.)" . there's more on this here website: http://www.tescopoly.org/ read and enjoy...

Re:What is Tesco?

[mormop]

Yep, Tesco are a Public Limited Company(PLC) meaning their shares are traded on the open stockmarket.

As for their behaviour, they seem no better/worse than anyone else. More expensive than Asda (Walmart) and cheaper than their main competitor (Sainsburys) they sell groceries and, in their bigger stores, clothing and domestic goods. As you'd imagine, made in China is the order of the day and as with most supermarkets, wages are kept as low as possible to keep prices down. Aside from that, I can't say that much negative PR leaks out although I seem to remember they cut Sunday pay rates for staff on the grounds that Sunday is no different to any other day.

Their value range is the usual no-frills stuff, plain packaging, basic stuff.

As for software I can't wait for Tescux, not so much through some zealous desire to plug Linux but just to see the irritating characters from their TV ads go through the indignity of having to dress as Penguins.

Re:What is Tesco?

[petera76]

If you are still interested in investing in Tesco, the Tesco corporate site can be found at http://www.tescocorporate.com/

Re:What is Tesco?

[Cartzca]

Well, Tesco are generally very good, however, they are sort of, indirectly related to one of the bigger politic scandals we've had here. Read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Porter But they do cheap and good food etc.

Re:What is Tesco?

[Antony T Curtis]

Don't worry... Tesco will soon be coming to a town near you.

Tesco is building a new large distribution facility somewhere in Long Beach, CA... and plans to open up a few Tesco superstores in at least the Los Angeles area. There is one location I know which is very likely to become a Tesco because Gigante failed to get town planning permission for the site.

Tesco is not the only UK company planning a US invasion: BP is already well established in the US - operating under the Arco brand name. J Sainsburys is examining entering the US market, as is Boots. In fact, Boots is already retailing some of their own branded products through Target stores (IIRC, a French owned company) in a test of the market. Woolworths is examining reentering the US market... W.H.Smiths, Waitrose and Safeway are already in the USA in some capacity.

Re:What is Tesco?

[Antony T Curtis]

Oops, SNAFU ... Safeway originated from the US

Re:What is Tesco?

[FireFury03]

recycling etc - well they do as much as they need to maintain a good public image, but they don't have any reputation for being particularly good or bad in that regard.

Actually, tesco have recently been announcing themselves as envrionmentally friendly, with biodegradable bags and power from renewables such as wind, solar, etc.

Re:What is Tesco?

[teh kurisu]

Tesco's recycling efforts. The most recent thing they're doing is offering extra Clubcard points to those that don't use any disposable bags (which doesn't seem to be mentioned on that page).

Re:What is Tesco?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tesco are amazing. Walmart drove out local business by being obscenely cheaper than they could ever possibly be. Tesco drives out local business by being Tesco. Study after study have shown it's cheaper to buy your food from dedicated local butchers/grocers yet still Tesco pull in the punters.

Re:What is Tesco?

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI, Tesco are so big over here even Walmart complain! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4192746.stm

Re:What is Tesco?

[jimicus]

And Safeway split from its US parent company many years before it was bought by Morrissions.

(Yes, I used to work there. Depressing, isn't it?)

Re:What is Tesco?

[RahoulB]

"Tesco Value" is their cheapo in-house brand (they also do plain Tesco brand stuff).

They do very nice cheese but I prefer Sainsburys' sausages.

The name Tesco comes from the founder's wife - Tessa Cohen.

Re:What is Tesco?

[Anonymous Coward]

Target is based in Minneapolis, MN not France.

Will Software Makers Lobby EU Against Tesco?

[PHAEDRU5]

You know, like here: http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/ 21/1653231

Cry Havoc! And let slip the Hounds of the Bar!

Re:old news...

[Anonymous Coward]

From the anonymous coward who claims he submitted this story three days ago?

I quite often post as an AC to protect my precious karma. I want mod points, I haven't had any in weeks - I have excellent karma. I don't get it. Celardore.

Without seeing the software...

[east coast]

I wonder if this is going to do more harm for alternative software.

We already know that Joe Sixpack doesn't like learning new software. When he buys some crappy software for a reasonable price and it just doesn't have the feel of MS Office is he going to feel ripped off and reject alternatives even more because of this bad experience?

It'd be nice to think that this is going to be good software but I really don't think it's going to end up that way. I think that Joe is going to demand all the bells and whistles of MSO regardless of the price and regardless of the fact that he doesn't even use 90% of MSOs potential... He's kind of like the photoshop kiddies who have no real use for anything beyond MS Paint but are too proud/lunkheaded to use Gimp (which still outdistances anything they'd need a few times over).

I have a bad feeling about this.

Re:Without seeing the software...

[Gavin86]

You shouldn't. Check out the screenshots http://www.ability.com/v4/newv4.php?ln=uk

It looks exactly like MS Office.

Re:Without seeing the software...

[Andrewkov]

We already know that Joe Sixpack doesn't like learning new software.

In the UK he's called Henry Six-pints.

Re:Without seeing the software...

[Red Flayer]

In the UK he's called Henry Six-pints.

It comes in PINTS?!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

seems like Tesco could be missing a trick

[Colin Smith]

Download OO.o once, stick it on a hundred thousand CDs and sell it for £20 a go to the public. Still I suppose they don't really want to get into the support business themselves if they can delegate that to the supplier.

Re:seems like Tesco could be missing a trick

[TangoCharlie]

Who says that's not what they're doing? I can't imagine that Tesco have actually written
any software. They've either licensed something like Ability Office or just re-branded
OOo. Since OOo is by far the best MSOffice competitor, the odds are the Tesco Office suite
will just be OOo.

Don't get me wrong.... If Tesco did just that, that would be great.

Re:seems like Tesco could be missing a trick

[Fallus Shempus]

It's ability Office according to the BBC

Re:seems like Tesco could be missing a trick

[stupid_is]

FTFA: "They're created by the guys and gals who make and distribute the excellent Ability Office and Panda Antivirus software, though the Tesco-specific products are said to be unique in design."

Because Tescos is a trusted brand name

[fantomas]

Because the UK media have been telling people "careful about what you click on when go online, there are bad people out there". People don't trust little weird geeky sites which assume knowledgeable users.

It's way confusing out there for non-geeks. It took me a long time to explain to my dad the difference between "being online" and "the web" (...the blue E button isn't the internet, dad, it's a program you can see some of the internet with, yes I know it's weird it's called Internet Explorer but it's not exploring all the internet ...). Hey I don't mind. Internal combustion engines confuse the hell out of me and don't even get me started on different washing cycles on the washing machines... technology eh?!

Lots of people trust the biggest supermarket in the country, it sells them food they trust, clothes they trust, and they sell computers these days. So they'll trust "Tesco software".

Re:Because Tescos is a trusted brand name

[Hawthorne01]

If Tesco can do this in the U.K., why can't Wal-Mart do it here? Or Costco? Or BestBuy? Or Fry's?

Jes' thinkin'...

Re:Because Tescos is a trusted brand name

[ScentCone]

Because the UK media have been telling people "careful about what you click on when go online, there are bad people out there".

But you say that like it's a bad thing! It's actually true, even if it's a lot more nuanced than as presented - just like everything you get from aimed-at-a-large-audience news/communication. Economics, legal matters, cosmology, genetics, giant multi-million-node internetworked systems... I think it's better they say "careful!" than say "there are free things out there that can work well for you, start looking."

Re:Because Tescos is a trusted brand name

[Kadin2048]

Because WalMart is practically in bed with Microsoft, and Tesco is not?

If Tesco had the sort of "relationship" that Walmart does, and were making as much money off of selling MS software to begin with, they wouldn't bother cooking up their own 'Tesco Office' to sell.

If Walmart wanted to do something like this, they could probably muscle MS into making them a Walmart-branded version of Office and sell it. Apparently they don't want to associate their company name with computer software (something that many Americans associate with obnoxiousness), and they're content to just sell the MS-branded boxes.

You don't "insource" when you're making perfectly good money selling the other guy's stuff already. That Tesco is doing this indicates to me that they aren't as cozy with MS as the U.S. retailers are.

Re:Because Tescos is a trusted brand name

[Registered Coward v2]

If Tesco can do this in the U.K., why can't Wal-Mart do it here? Or Costco? Or BestBuy? Or Fry's?

Tesco no doubt has a long history of private label merchandise so they have an established brand that buyers trust and the experience needed to make such a system work.

Most US electronics retailers are retailers (CompUSA has a house brand and BB has some thin variant on that) who simply resell goods.

Now, if one of the OSS vendors decided to offer private label versions of the software then they may get some traction with the big box vendors. The key is to price it at a point where it doesn't steal sales form the higher margin products, or price it so you actually get a better margin off of the cheaper stuff and hope you move a lot. Personally, I'd price it so I make as much in profit off of genericOFFICE (tm) as real office - if I got $10 for the real thing I'd price genericOFFICE (TM) at cost plus 10 dollars. at that point, absent MS or other vendor incentives, I don't care which product I sell.

Re:Because Tescos is a trusted brand name

[Anonymous Coward]

If Tesco can do this in the U.K., why can't Wal-Mart do it here? Or Costco? Or BestBuy? Or Fry's?

I thought Wal-Mart sold Linux PCs? Seems to me like selling Linux machines is a step even further beyond selling cheap proprietary software...

Re:Because Tescos is a trusted brand name

[kabocox]

Lots of people trust the biggest supermarket in the country, it sells them food they trust, clothes they trust, and they sell computers these days. So they'll trust "Tesco software".

I don't "trust" the food or clothes that I buy. I take it as a matter of course that they are "safe" because all my neighbors and family haven't dropped dead after shopping at a place. Doesn't mean that I "trust" their products. Usually it just means that they just have cheap shinies that I can afford. I don't trust inanimate objects or corporations. It's a basic safety requirement.

Re:Because Tescos is a trusted brand name

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Fry's has- it bundles it's GQ line with Fry's Linspire.

Re:Because Tescos is a trusted brand name

[operagost]

Because WalMart is practically in bed with Microsoft, and Tesco is not?

Hmm... I thought WalMart sold Linspire PCs. So I guess Microsoft did create Linspire, and that whole Lindows lawsuit was just an elaborate ruse!

Re:Because Tescos is a trusted brand name

[mr_sas]

I could be wrong but I belive all of Tescos internal software runs on Microsoft and .net is their future direction.

Re:Because Tescos is a trusted brand name

[Blackhalo]

"Because WalMart is practically in bed with Microsoft, and Tesco is not?"

That may be true to an extent, I belive that in additoin, at least in the US, Microsoft is one of Wal*Marts biggest customers. Most big chain retailers make thier greatest profits off of selling retail space, regardless of the sale of the product itself. In order for a manufacurer to get thier product into the chain stores, they must pay the retailer to even carry the product in the first place. Companies must pay additonal money for placment at the ends of isles and eye level shelf space.

Back in the day, when I worked retail, I can recall MicroSoft paying for entire shelves of eye level placement for Windows 95, Office 97 and Windows 98. For Win 95 they "rented" every end cap in our store to have the product placed there.

I think it is very similar to how the RIAA pays Clear Channel to play thier songs and Intel pays for a large percentage of computer manufactures ads. It serves to keep small start ups from being able to compete with the established or sponsored players.

I think it is a mutually benifical relationsip, in a way, as the big players do not pay these incentives to mom and pop retailers. So that is how the Big Box stores can afford to sell some items with "instant rebates" that would appear to be below cost, while the independant outfits can not afford to do the same. I mean, what dumb ass would pay 300 dollars for a word processing and spread sheet program, that has the same functions as the one he got 3 years ago or is free on the web? The answer I think in no one. They either buy a site licence or get it from an OEM with thier computer. But it does keep OpenOffic.org and Word Perfect off the shelves and the mom and pop in the margins selling service instead of products.

Re:Because Tescos is a trusted brand name

[bertybassett]

It doesnt. I work there, believe me, it doesnt.

Re:Because Tescos is a trusted brand name

[mr_sas]

Fair enough, I don't have first hand knowledge, the impression some websites I found when I first heard of this story, indicate they are a big Microsoft shop.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.asp x?view=PR&symbol=MSFT.O&storyID=84359+03-Oct-2006+ BW&type=qcna
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2001/jul0 1/07-17tescopr.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/canada/casestudies/tesco. mspx

I'm not sure where I read the .net thing from, possibly it was Sainsburys or ASDA rather than Tescos though.

Alternatives haven't been popular.

[Anonymous Coward]

For many years now, the Corel WordPerfect suite has been available at a cost much below that of Office. I'm guessing that most Windows users have never seen that suite installed on any computer they have access to. So, just because something is cheap, it doesn't mean people will buy it. It would be just as much pain to install the store bought software as it would be to install OpenOffice. My guess is that the office suite won't sell very well. On the other hand, I'm not a retail expert. ymmv, ianal, etc.

The anti-virus software, on the other hand, might do quite well. People have gotten used to buying anti-virus software at regular intervals. I'm guessing that a sizable number of people buy a new Norton even when they still qualify for a download. Sometimes the download is just too much of a pita.

Re:old news...

[WasteOfAmmo]

I usually make a hand motion everytime my submissions get rejected. :)

Re:Their webserver is Windows Server 2003 IIS!!!

[mcmonkey]

But Netcraft is reporting that their website runs Windows Server 2003. Yeah, they wont use free market leading webserver Apache.

Huh? Apache is a weberver. Windows Server is an OS. I could understand, "They run Windows Server. Why not use Linux?" Or, "Their website is on IIS. They don't use Apache."

But you're saying, they drive a Volvo. Why not wear blue jeans?

Re:old news...

[6Yankee]

Amateur :P

British supermarket to offer own-brand software Sun October 01, 11:29 Rejected

It wasn't news two days ago? Or perhaps BBC News is considered less credible than CNET? I really do wish they wouldn't whore for submissions on the front page and then shitcan the ones they get. It really pisses me off.

expiration date

[Phantom of the Opera]

They could revolutionize software by putting 'Sell By' dates on the package.

Re:expiration date

[Nex]

Or they could put 'Free Updates for Life of Product' on the package. Nex

Re:It's the incompetant "customer" at hand.

[Paradise Pete]

my main market would be that of a bi-weekly attraction to a "flee market" in the parking-lot of a School;

A flee market? Is that where they only have runaway best-sellers?

Re:old news...

['nother poster]

I'm stunned. Flabbergasted. Nay, gobsmacked, at your wit and observational skills. You my good gEvil (beta) are truly one in a million.

Re:old news...

[gEvil (beta)]

It's amazing how often stating the completely (and idiotically) obvious will get you modded up as 'funny' around here...

The UK equivalent of Wal-mart...

[The Mgt]

...is ASDA and they are owned by Wal-mart.

Re:The UK equivalent of Wal-mart...

[mlk]

(This is based on hear-say, I've never shopped in Walmart, not worked for any of them).
As I understand it Walmart owns Asda, but does not dectate how it should operate, and Walmarts operating practises are closer to that of Tescos than Asda. Asda is relatively nice to its employees, Tesco & Walmart treat them as disposable extras.

Re:The UK equivalent of Wal-mart...

[drsquare]

I think Asda is closest to Walmart as they're both scruffy and low-quality.

I don't know of any Tescos equivalent in America. They're slightly more expensive than Asda but far better run, and a much more pleasant shopping experience.

Re:The UK equivalent of Wal-mart...

[mlk]

My xp is the opposite, Asda is normally quite clean and bright. Tesco is cheap, dark and scruffy.

Tescos business practices.

[celardore]

Tesco offers cheap, cheap prices to the consumer. To do this they really screw their suppliers, because they have such a market presence that allows them to pretty much dictate the rate at which they buy their goods.

Also, I used to work for a very large logistics firm that handled a lot of their deliveries. They string their suppliers out in terms of paying them too. They are awful customers. That said though, you can't argue with their prices. I wish there was one near me, I'd shop there.

Choice

[Anonymous Coward]

It's giving people choice and for 20 pounds... Heck, I look at something and go, eh, it's only a few bucks and buy it, just to try it. If I don't like it I'm not out much.

Beats paying 300 quid for MS Office and not liking it.

Big companies and money

[nuggz]

If the company can't find a reasonable way to reinvest the funds, they should give them to the owners.
BRK.A has been quite successful at reinvesting internally.
Some other companies pay out some and keep some earnings. Exxon pays out roughly 25% of their corporate profit, and reinvested the rest.

In Canada there is a whole class of investments (income trusts) that simply give ALL earnings back to the owners, with little reinvestment in the underlying business.

To be fair the tax treatment of dividends in the US was quite poor and encourage companies to avoid providing dividends. Add in the strategic advantage of a large cash reserve and it is understandable why a company will act like this.

Re:old news...

[gEvil (beta)]

Is that with your right or your left hand?

Too bad Vista is meant to break that.

[miffo.swe]

First Microsoft included their browser, then their own bastardized version of java. In come the media player. Microsoft is now going to include antivirus in their product amongst other things. The next logical step is including Microsoft Office with the OS. After that tax applications etc etc until Windows is both the OS and the applications. Its impossible to break a monopoly that works like Microsoft does with regular market forces. While some may think its all ok to include antivirus in Windows i say its insane. The problem in the underlying OS should be fixed by better security, not by chomping up a third party market that became because of apparent lack of security in the OS.

Re:Too bad Vista is meant to break that.

[Khuffie]

There's no antivirus in Vista

Re:Too bad Vista is meant to break that.

[SoulRider]

and Windows Defender is what again?

Re:Too bad Vista is meant to break that.

[Khuffie]

Antispyware

Re:Too bad Vista is meant to break that.

[SoulRider]

And I quote from microsofts site:

Windows Vista contains a number of new security features that, taken together, are designed to make Windows Vista-based PCs more secure and your online experiences safer. The improvements are designed to help you have:

      1. A PC protected from viruses, worms, spyware, and other potentially unwanted software
      2. A safer online experience for you and your family
      3. An understanding of when your PC is unsafe, and the control and guidance to help improve your security

sure sounds like antivirus to me

Are they going to release their own OS...

[Anonymous Coward]

To challenge Micro$oft? They could call their new Operating System. TescOS

Re:Are they going to release their own OS...

[mei_mei_mei]

LOL.

Its Slashdotted

[JonnyCalcutta]

I guess OSCommerce can't cope -

"Many apologies -
The Tesco DVD Rental site is currently undergoing essential maintenance.

Please bear with us.
Thank you.

Tesco DVD Rental"

Dude, you've misplaced a zero or two

[melted]

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=MSFT

They've made 12,599.00 MUSD in profit in FY06.

Therefore...

[21st Century Peon]

Would someone please mod the above post "funny" ;)

Tesco Office == Ability Office

[Goodgerster]

In other words, this will fail. They'd be far better off rebranding OOo, as mentioned before.

Re:Tesco Office == Ability Office

[Tony Hoyle]

Fail? Even if 0.01% of tescos customers buy it it'll be a runaway success just on the numbers alone.

Tesco want to get their branding onto their PCs and presumably microsoft wouldn't cut a deal. So they decided to make their own & sell it with their hardware. Tesco sell a *lot* of hardware.

Re:Tesco Office == Ability Office

[seriesrover]

Please explain the numbers. 0.01% of $1.5BN in Tesco profits from customers == $150,000 profit
Or, did you mean Tescos has exposure to say 10M households in the UK, 0.01% == 1000 customers, buying at $30 per copy == $30,000 in sales

A runaway success? If you think thats a runaway success I can't imagine what you think of MS Office as a success.

Re:Tesco Office == Ability Office

[jimicus]

Tesco is a supermarket, it has thousands of product lines at various levels of profitability. As long as any given product line turns areasonable profit, it doesn't much matter if it's huge or not.

Microsoft is a software company. It has a handful of product lines, of which only two are profitable. One of those is Office.

Where Tesco leads...

[Warg! The Orcs!!]

others follow. They are the world's third largest retailer after WalMart and Carrefoure and are the world's biggest online grocery business (tesco.com). They will not have done this without knowing what they're getting in to.

and yes, they have 1/8th of the UK retail market and make £2Billion profit every year without breaking a sweat.

Tesco Value

[bfree]

I would love it if Tesco now went and added a Tesco Value range of software perhaps including Ubuntu, OpenOffice.org and/or TheOpenCd. Buy a simple black text printed Tesco Value OpenOffice.org cd (in plain paper window sleeve) for 1 not too long after each new version is released. They could even be nicer and offer the upstream organisation the choice to double the price (modify the image if they want) and donate the difference (to the organisation or anyone appointed by it).

Of course it would be even nicer if the exact same product (and price) was given the Tesco Finest label instead.

Re:Tesco Value

[Tony Hoyle]

I'm guessing the reason they didn't go with OO etc. is simply economics. They can go to the people that make ability office and say 'rebrand your software with tesco logos and ship us a million CDs by friday. We'll pay you in 9 months mmm'kay?'.

With OO there's nobody to do that to - they'd have to setup their own duplication, hire people to do the branding, etc. Too time consuming, logistically harder and probably more expensive.

Wal-Mart does this too

[Anonymous Coward]

It isn't "Wal-Mart" branded, but if you take a look at the software section in your local Wal-mart, you'll see all manner of weird noname-brand software for ~$20. (I wouldn't be surprised if nobody else noticed this before; I certainly don't often go to Wal-mart for software).

The "grandma market" is smaller by the day.

[Kadin2048]

I'm not sure this is true. Lots of home users want to be able to open documents that they might get emailed, or find on the web. There is a lot of content floating around out there in MS Word format; to limit a product to only people who don't care about any level of interoperability (besides producing printed output) is aiming for a very small market segment. Even schoolkids are going to need that, if only so they can work on something with a school computer (almost certainly using Word, whether it's a Mac or Windows box) and bring it home.

The people who don't care about interoperability at all are basically your non-internet-connected Grandmas; people for whom the computer is just a fancy typewriter. While there may be a few of them left, I think it's a declining segment of the market. Not exactly where I'd want to be positioning my product.

Not being able to open MS Word documents is going to be a major disadvantage of an alternative office suite. Aside from paper, and perhaps HTML and raw text, MS Word is probably the most common format for written documents out there. I think you underestimate the number of times "regular users" want to be able to put in a floppy disk and edit a document that they've worked on with another computer.

Re:The "grandma market" is smaller by the day.

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

I'm not sure this is true. Lots of home users want to be able to open documents that they might get emailed, or find on the web.

I have five different programs(including Word) that can read .doc files, but I've never bothered to specify one as a default for that file type. Thus, whenever I have to read one, it asks me what to use. Aside from work, I can think of one time I wanted to open a .doc file. Everything on the Web or in e-mail is text, rich text, PDF or HTML.

to limit a product to only people who don't care about any level of interoperability (besides producing printed output) is aiming for a very small market segment.

I suspect that market is a lot bigger than you think and i coincidentally matches up with Tesco's customers pretty well.

Not being able to open MS Word documents is going to be a major disadvantage of an alternative office suite.

The application they are selling does advertise .doc reading and writing among its feature set, so you can relax.

Aside from paper, and perhaps HTML and raw text, MS Word is probably the most common format for written documents out there.

Every Website I go to that offers something not in HTML, offers it in PDF. No really. Try to get a manual for your toaster, or a TV, or a medical report, or tax documents or nearly anything. It will almost invariably be PDF.

I think you underestimate the number of times "regular users" want to be able to put in a floppy disk and edit a document that they've worked on with another computer.

I've seen this kind of thing happen and you know what, people copy and paste into an e-mail or save as text, or if they are really clueless print it out and retype it. I know people who have done all three. Most people are shockingly accepting of stuff from their old computer no longer working. I don't think .doc compatibility is going to be used much by Tesco customers and I'm sure whatever rudimentary support they have will be fine for most users.

Re:The "grandma market" is smaller by the day.

[ncc74656]

I'm not sure this is true. Lots of home users want to be able to open documents that they might get emailed, or find on the web.

There are two ways to handle that:

1. Tell people to stop mailing you data that's locked up in a proprietary format. (Before OpenOffice, this was what RMS and his acolytes were telling everybody. Maybe it still is.)
2. Use one of the viewers Microsoft makes available for its files (anyone know if these work under Wine?).

smart idea

[backwardMechanic]

That is a damn fine idea. Sourceforge is a terrifying experience for even half-hardy users you've never been there. When I recently helped a friend install Inkscape, she ask "Why's it listing all these different countries, where do I click?" with mild panic. She has a PhD in engineering - she's just not familiar with open-source.

A simple site, aimed at your gran with her first computer, listing one package for each main task. Well, maybe three packages, but make it absolutely clear that they all work, and do the same thing. I like the firefox/thunderbird download sites that guess what OS you're using - fewer options is good here. Maybe something like freedesktop.org, but cross platform (i.e. you only get listed if you work on all of Linux/Mac/Windows).

OT

[Anonymous Coward]

The word is 'broaching' not 'breaching'

Re:OT

[Anonymous Coward]

smartass... :-)

Bet I'm not the first to say this but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Every little helps.

MUSD?

[remmelt]

Microsoft United States Dollars?

Re:MUSD?

[sjaskow]

I read it as Million United States Dollars. That being said, I would have written is as US$12,500M.

Re:MUSD?

[ncc74656]

That being said, I would have written is as US$12,500M.

$12.5 billion would be more concise, and less of a mouthful.

Real vs. 'free' software.

[Kadin2048]

Because OpenOffice doesn't come in a box that you can buy down at Tesco?

Even people I know who are reasonably proficent with computers don't think of stuff that you can download for free as "real" software. They're too used to getting crummy little spyware-laced utilities that way. If it comes in a cardboard box with a CD in a case inside, then it's real, it's commercial.

I think it's easy to underestimate the hesitance many people have in believing anything that's being given away can possibly be any good. We've been conditioned our whole lives to ask "what's the catch?" whenever something "free" is being given away.

Even if Tesco's product is inferior, by virtue of the fact that it's being sold as a physical object in a B&M store, it'll seem more 'official' to a lot of people.

abomination that is Works

[Tim Ward]

Absolutely!

I'm one of those to whom compatibility, ie the ability to actually get on with my work which earns me my living, is vastly more important than the price of MS Office ... but nobody can disagree with "abomination that is Works".

Not 2 things, but 3:

[Em Adespoton]

I'd be agreeing with you if not for two things.

I'll add a third:
Both of the offered packages come with telephone support supplied by the manufacturer. With a repackaged OOo and AVG, they'd most likely have to handle everything in-house, which would mean not only adding those products to their helpdesk, but also adding employees familiar with the products who can liase with the development teams to fix user reported bugs and add user requested features on a tight schedule. This would add overhead they probably want to avoid.

It's the taxes, stupid.

[Kadin2048]

To be fair the tax treatment of dividends in the US was quite poor and encourage companies to avoid providing dividends.

Bingo. The tax structure in the U.S. favors gains in the share price over dividends, so as an investor, I would prefer that a company reinvest its profits (thereby hopefully raising the share price later) than give me the profit as a dividend, so that the government can come and screw me for most of it. Prior to 2003, there were situations you could get into where the tax rate on dividends could be twice that of capital gains. It's been ameliorated somewhat by the Tax Act of '03, but I think it's still somewhat more advantageous to have a capital gain than a dividend in the same dollar amount. (And even if it's not, many investors think that it is, which has the same effect.)

If you treated dividends the same way as capital gains are now -- or better yet, if you just treated all of them like simple income -- you would probably see investors demand different things from the companies that they hold, and the companies would respond eventually.

The real question is how do you want to encourage companies to be? Do you want to encourage reinvestment (and large-scale infrastructure development), or do you want to favor leaner "cash cow" corporations, which make a profit and turn it over to the investors more directly? I don't think that either route is clearly superior universally.

I agree not a bad thing

[fantomas]

I agree with you it's not a bad thing, very good point. I am so glad my retired dad just doesn't click on anything which says "free". I'd rather he was cautious than exuberant when it comes to trying out links to free software.

My response was rather to the parent posting - agreeing with the point you make much better than I do - that just because there is free and shareware out there, there are reasons people don't click on it. They've be warned to be cautious of unknown sites by the mainstream media and people are taking notice, which is good. My point to the parent poster is that what may be an obviously reputable source to them as an expert user is just another possible dodgy unknown source to my proverbial enduser less skilled retired dad.

three choices too many

[fantomas]

Really, I know this sounds silly, but justify three choices. If you're going to offer people choices, and you want them to go to your site/ shop and pick one of them, then make it clear what differentiates the three. Otherwise people will choose the first one. Many people just want to type a letter, check the football scores on the web and buy something on ebay, email their friend. They don't give a damn that there are a 100 word processors/web browsers/mail clients out there.

Re:three choices too many

[backwardMechanic]

I really wanted to say one, but there's no way I can see that working. It's difficult to explain to someone inside the Microsoft monopoly that there are several packages, all capable of doing what you want, all looking a little different. I don't know why - cars are different, hifis are different. How do you pick a hifi?

Three isn't a magic number. But after typing one, I decided that's not the right solution. KDE and Gnome are both good, and I'm glad they both exist (even if I choose to use fluxbox). The proposed web site could do two things. First, offer the stable packages that get you up and running. But second, it could help introduce the open source world, where things work a little differently. It'd be a shame to lose the variety in order to reach the masses.

Re:three choices too many

[Ambidisastrous]

Grandma: "Let's see, there must be a replacement for Word on here somewhere... OK, 'text editors' sounds about right. Now, do I want 'emacs' or 'vim'? ... ooh, this one says it's 'the standard text editor' ..."

Dunno, Sourceforge just doesn't seem like the right forum for offering high-profile projects as the new standard -- it's too developer-oriented. Perhaps another website. Hell, Google seems to have latent urges to it themselves, which would really be pretty appropriate.

Re:three choices too many

[jZnat]

My grandma (well, if any of them used computers in the first place) would probably ask me or someone else in the family who is technologically knowledgeable. I seriously doubt "Grandma" would go tinkering around without knowing what she was doing.

Besides, OpenOffice is installed by default with most distros nowadays, and it's in the "Office" category in the applications.

support issue...

[fantomas]

As another poster noted, maybe it's a support issue (and business model). If Tesco sells an open source set of tools and the support system is a text file which says "here's the address of the dev mailing list, please don't post until you've read the manuals and searched the internet for the obvious answer", then Tesco is in trouble a couple of days after they launch. Maybe they've gone with a company that has promised they've got a great phone/online support system. Maybe the software company are making their money from the premium phone rate support line for all those users?

So my question to you and the broader slashdot readership, which I ask in ignorance (my apologies): - is there a free/open source software company which has a comprehensive UK phone support and end user friendly online support system that could respond to Tescos stocking their software and promoting it to the general UK public?

Re:support issue...

[WNight]

You assume that whatever word processor they rebranded is better than OO, such that people using it will never have problems, valid or otherwise. I imagine that the same tech-support would suffice for both - they aren't going to try to recompile anything, just check a couple obvious things and issue a refund.

I don't understand why it's supposedly going to fail so much more and need more support than the absolute nothing you get with all commercial software.

Re:The UK equivalent of Walmart...

[ambrosen]

Not especially. Walmart is having difficulty Walmartising ASDA, but it's partly because the UK supermarket trade tends to cycle in how luxury it is, and at the moment, goods are selling on quality rather than price, where ASDA competes almost completely on price. Tesco Finest is well regarded by customers as a luxury range and ASDA's equivalent, which I can't remember the name of, is not particularly prestigious. This explains the rebirth of Sainsbury's (2% of whose customers go there based on price), which was #1 in the UK until 1994 and was overtaken by ASDA to number 3 in about 2000, and also the dramatic rise of Waitrose, which has no value range, and a strong emphasis on everything being high quality.

As for Tesco's behaviour being like Walmart's, it does squeeze its suppliers extremely tightly, but so does ASDA. Those supermarkets are the main drivers of large format 24 hour stores in the UK, with the other supermarkets generally shutting at 8 or 10pm and only having a few 24 hour stores.

ASDA has had major disputes about unionisation, which Tesco has not done, but otherwise I think they're much of a muchness in terms of unpleasant business practices.

They will lose

[WindBourne]

Again, they are trying to take on MS with a Windows only product. As long as companies insist on doing this in a Windows only type mode, they will lose. MS can undercut them anytime they want. OTH, if they make the products available on all platforms, then they force MS to compete in places where they can not cheat.

It's about file formats

[jesterzog]

Now perhaps Joe Random User might buy this stuff, but that won't put a dent in MS sales, other than perhaps the "Student Edition" of Office.

I don't think it's very relevant what businesses use as long as there's diversity. As far as I'm concerned, businesses can use whatever they like. What irks me is when they try to enforce their product choices on me.

The important thing here is that it introduces a lot more diversity in software, meaning that closed Microsoft-controlled formats are less likely to be considered a de-facto standard. If significant numbers of people at home aren't using Office products, it means that businesses can't as easily just send me a Word document, or require that I send a Word document to them, and blame me if I don't happen to have the software or appropriate operating system to read or produce it.

It's a shame in a way that Ability Office still claims to be compatible with Microsoft formats, meaning that it still provides space for an excuse for people to use Office formats. I guess they have to be compatible in today's world, although it's nice to see that the Word/Excel formats are only defaults as an option.

Software supermarket ..

[rs232]

rs232's Recent Submissions
Software supermarket, Sunday October 01, @01:35PM, Rejected

Posting two day old news again I see ..

Re:Software supermarket ..

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps your submission was boringly written or otherwise not equal to this one that did make it up?

I'm going for the record ..

[rs232]

I'm going for the record of most rejects posted to Slashdot ..

Software supermarket , Sunday October 01, @01:35PM , Rejected
slow rendering and google-analytics.com , Monday September 25, @12:30PM , Rejected
IE flaw bypasses fully patched systems , Wednesday September 20, @02:57PM , Rejected
MS behind discredit campaign says EU commissioner , Wednesday September 20, @02:43PM , Rejected
Open Source firm secures M$7.5 In funding . , Sunday September 17, @03:34PM , Rejected
restrictions on testing security , Sunday September 17, @02:24PM , Rejected
Samsung website hacked .. , Saturday September 09, @04:14PM , Rejected
forbes rehashes old fud , Friday September 08, @12:59PM , Rejected
Man jailed for speed camera blast , Wednesday September 06, @04:18PM , Rejected
politically correct insanity , Friday September 01, @01:09PM , Rejected
competitors mimic functionality , Monday August 28, @02:11PM , Rejected
non-final core components , Thursday August 17, @07:45PM , Rejected
Oracle and no cost Linux , Tuesday August 01, @01:59PM , Rejected
attack of the suicide virus , Monday July 31, @04:25PM , Rejected
the darker side of open source , Monday July 17, @03:11PM , Rejected
Oracle License Agreement , Tuesday July 11, @10:51AM , Rejected
switch to Mac for security advises Sophos , Wednesday July 05, @01:54PM , Rejected
part time barman IT manager wanted , Thursday June 29, @05:56PM , Rejected
a solution to unauthorized apps , Wednesday June 21, @12:29PM , Rejected
saint bill , Saturday June 17, @02:17PM , Rejected
Third World fuels malware , Wednesday June 14, @12:40PM , Rejected
the Microsoft-Sunbelt-Yankee connection , Saturday June 10, @01:48PM , Rejected
the blue bridge of death , Saturday May 27, @06:03PM , Rejected
when am I going to get a post ? , Tuesday May 23, @05:49PM , Rejected
say goodbye to the real Internet , Saturday May 20, @02:45PM , Rejected
Hilf benchmarks Linux , Friday March 24, @06:14PM , Rejected
I'm going for the record of the most rejected [pstson Slashdot ..
Software supermarket, Sunday October 01, @01:35PM , Rejected
slow rendering and google-analytics.com , Monday September 25, @12:30PM , Rejected
IE flaw bypasses fully patched systems , Wednesday September 20, @02:57PM , Rejected
MS behind discredit campaign says EU commissioner , Wednesday September 20, @02:43PM , Rejected
Open Source firm secures M$7.5 In funding . , Sunday September 17, @03:34PM , Rejected
restrictions on testing security , Sunday September 17, @02:24PM , Rejected
Samsung website hacked .. , Saturday September 09, @04:14PM , Rejected
forbes rehashes old fud , Friday September 08, @12:59PM , Rejected
Man jailed for speed camera blast , Wednesday September 06, @04:18PM , Rejected
politically correct insanity , Friday September 01, @01:09PM , Rejected
competitors mimic functionality , Monday August 28, @02:11PM , Rejected
non-final core components , Thursday August 17, @07:45PM , Rejected
Oracle and no cost Linux , Tuesday August 01, @01:59PM , Rejected
attack of the suicide virus , Monday July 31, @04:25PM , Rejected
the darker side of open source , Monday July 17, @03:11PM , Rejected
Oracle License Agreement , Tuesday July 11, @10:51AM , Rejected
switch to Mac for security advises Sophos , Wednesday July 05, @01:54PM , Rejected
part time barman IT manager wanted , Thursday June 29, @05:56PM , Rejected
a solution to unauthorized apps , Wednesday June 21, @12:29PM , Rejected
saint bill , Saturday June 17, @02:17PM , Rejected
Third World fuels malware , Wednesday June 14, @12:40PM , Rejected
the Microsoft-Sunbelt-Yankee connection , Saturday June 10, @01:48PM , Rejected
the blue bridge of death , Saturday May 27, @06:03PM , Rejected
when am I going to get a post ? , Tuesday May 23, @05:49PM , Rejected
say goodbye to the real Internet , Saturday May 20, @02:

Even lovers have their spats.

[Kadin2048]

I have no proof of this, but I suspect that the Linspire PC was at least in part, a threat to Microsoft on the part of Walmart.

It wouldn't surprise me if it got brought up as a bargaining chip in some negotiation over Walmart's allowed margin on Office or Windows XP.

I said they're in bed with each other, not that they don't have a little lover's quarrel once in a while.

Re:old news...

[Geoffreyerffoeg]

I quite often post as an AC to protect my precious karma. I want mod points, I haven't had any in weeks - I have excellent karma. I don't get it. Celardore.

Well what do you expect if you never post? I have excellent karma. I don't often get modded up (because I post a lot) but I haven't gotten modded down in months. But the mere fact that I do post, and I get the occasional +3, and I maintain excellent karma, gave me what felt like perpetual mod points for a few weeks.

Go post and contribute to Slashdot and see if the algorithm will think better of you. Why give mod points to an inactive user?

"Free" is not a trusted brand name.

[SeaFox]

Because the UK media have been telling people "careful about what you click on when go online, there are bad people out there". People don't trust little weird geeky sites which assume knowledgeable users.

They also are told not to download lots of stuff online and be wary of software being offered for free. People don't expect quality software to come without a price tag and are suspicious of free office programs and free operating systems, thinkng they are loaded with spyware or unsecure in some other way.

Maybe what OSS needs to do is ironically enough, start charging people (even if it's just ten bucks) pool resources and lease some space on a grocery store display if they want to increase marketshare, rather than directing people to a free download.

Re:"Free" is not a trusted brand name.

[ErroneousBee]

It is slowly sinking in. I lurk on a financial site where in teh last 2 years the computer help bulletin board has gone from exactly this 'quality == purchase costs' attitude to the opposite oppinion. Now firefox, AVG and OO.o are the default answer to many questions.

Most of the computer literate fools have moved to a FOSS or shareware application, and informal 'how do I do this' questions get answered quite quickly for FOSS and shareware, whilst IE and MS Office questions may even go unanswered. A few have even moved to Linux, but they seem to disspaear from view soon after (dont need the support perhaps?), although there is still quite a bit of stiff resistance to any 'use linux' answers.

Because when monopolies compete,

[DevanJedi]

Because when monopolies compete, you win.

Re:old news...

[Anonymous Coward]

me too :(

• 2006-10-01 20:04:02 UK retailer Tesco enters software market (Index,Software) (rejected)

Re:Their webserver is Windows Server 2003 IIS!!!

[MadMidnightBomber]

Huh? Apache is a weberver. Windows Server is an OS. I could understand, "They run Windows Server. Why not use Linux?" Or, "Their website is on IIS. They don't use Apache."

You can also get sendmail for Windows. All the ease of configuration of sendmail, with the stability of Windows.

Similarly, you can run apache on Windows, but most people who are running apache are running it on Linux, and most people who are running Windows are using IIS.

This might work

[porneL]

It looks exactly like MS Office to someone who uses MS Word to write shopping list.

Ah but, Tesco will never have that relationship

[j.a.mcguire]

Tesco will likely never have the relationship to Microsoft which Wallmart does, because Wallmart bought out Asda, the 3rd biggest supermarket chain in the uk! So they're really already in direction competition.

Re:It's the incompetant "customer" at hand.

[Anonymous Coward]

Flee...runaway...oh man is there a mod for "Worst Pun of the Week?"

Banks

[Peaker]

Anyway back to the point. Very large profitable companies (we should all have this problem) sometimes make more money than they have ideas to spend it on.

I thought that's what Banks were for.

You put the money in the bank, and it spends its time and resources figuring out where to re-invest it.

"Regular market forces"

[Peaker]

If regular market forces applied, Microsoft would already be out of business.

Copyright law, being a government imposed monopoly is not part of the market or its forces, and allows for such monopolization of a market.

If regular market forces were let loose (copyright cancelled), then the monopoly would be broken very quickly.

The next generation...

[Ice Wewe]

I'll sell you the link to free anti-virus software for $5!

Wait, an even better deal just came up! I'll sell you the link to some open source office tools for $10!

Just like those Ebay auctions for information on places you can buy an Xbox from for $50.

Re:old news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you explain the algorithm to me? I have good karma, I'm rarely modded down, and during certain periods I post a lot.

To make a long story short: I have had mod points exactly once, but for the longest time I had perpetual metamod "points". I even metamodded several times per day in a vain attempt of improving Slashdot's moderations.

I was never given mod points, and after a while a just gave up. I'm still interested in knowing why I never get mod points, but my colleague who never posts anything has mod points all the time... But if that's the trick, I should have lots of them now since this is my first post in ages.

(posted as AC for obvious reasons)

Re:old news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, me too. Bloody slashdot.

OpenSourceMac.org and OpenSourceWindows.org

[Anonymous Coward]

These sites are exactly what you're talking about. They don't try to give you a complete list, just a few solid titles in each category. I discovered several titles from that site that I wouldn't have known about otherwise. http://www.opensourcemac.org/ and http://www.opensourcewindows.org/

a note

[Anonymous Coward]

Ya Hoo!

Toodles

Wal-Mart

[Anonymous Coward]

The UK equiv of Wal-Mart is actually Wal-Mart. They own ASDA and have rebranded many of their stores to Wal-Mart.

Tesco is the worlds third largest supermarket, behind Carrefour (2nd) and Wal-Mart (1st)

Is the outcome any different?

[Dr_Barnowl]

Well, I bet the former shopkeepers feel like their life was stolen.

They were almost inevitably providing services relevant to local people, at a certain reasonable markup.

Now, I'm not saying they were all angels working solely for the good of the community. They were businessmen, and out to make a profit just as Tesco are. But the shops that came in after them obviously have to have take more money in order to support their new, higher rent. Which means more money departing from this community and falling into the pockets of the rich landlord.

Net effect? The local populace get poorer, the local shopkeepers probably have to move to another town and start over. Tesco probably sold it's holding of land on to another landlord when it realised it wanted to do nothing with it, and probably insisted on making a handsome profit so as to show something for the effort of buying it (at a profitable price for the original landlord) in the first place. That handsome profit needs to be paid for somehow by the new owner, who will take it out in rent. He'll also want a profit for himself as well.

Winners : Tesco, Previous Landlord & New Landlord.
Losers : Shopkeepers, community, consumers (who are now paying their traditional markups, plus the markup for the profits of the Winners).

Yes, legally speaking, it's all above board. But don't expect me to find it palatable that while some people earn their living through real work providing goods and services, others can "earn" a living just by signing a piece of paper which ensures that a percentage of the labours of the real workers ends up in their pocket.

Tesco is Hardly the Equivalent of Wal-Mart

[fairalbion]

Tesco may be the UK's largest supermarket chain, but is hardly a Wal-Mart equivalent. "Asda" is the bottom-feeding supermarket chain in the UK and most closely matches Wal-Mart's profile. It's actually not doing terribly well in the market, as well-heeled Brits eschew the "low prices every day" model and shop at Tesco & Sainsbury's instead. Oh yes, Asda is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Wal-Mart.

Doubleclicking as an intellectual endeavour.

[jotaeleemeese]

By cliffski

Can you spell monopoly?

[jotaeleemeese]

I hope so.

Their are using their strong market position in order to become a monopoly.

I will be redundant here, but I think it is necessary.

In the US there are places where you can drive for a couple of hours (hello Texas) and you will not find much constructed along the way.

In the UK you can drive for the same period and 95% of the time you are in view of fully populated areas.

That is why this shameless monopolical speculation is worng, ammoral and pehaprs even illegal.

Get yourself a few non disposable bags.

[jotaeleemeese]

And stop the pointless whining while at the same time helping the fucking environment.

Jeez.

They left Germany in disgrace.

[jotaeleemeese]

I think they don't understand the European market.

For crying out loud, they wanted the German personel to sing one of these stupid corporate anthems each morning.

The Germans. those people that now have embedded on their DNA a healthy distrust to indoctrination of any kind.

Talk about being ignorant.

no meat in mincemeat?

[Rozzin]

When I've make minemeat pie, the recipes that I've used included meat.

When I bought prepackaged mincemeat at the store, the package has clearly listed "beef" in the ingredients. `Nonesuch' brand certainly does contain meat.

What you talkin' 'bout, man?

Re:no meat in mincemeat?

[nuggz]

I was just trying to clarify the regional meaning of mince and a possible logic.

It is quite common at least in some areas to have mincemeat with no meat. Here is the wikipedia link and relevant quote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincemeat
"Mincemeat containing actual meat has become less common over the years."

Sick of hearing about "Mom and Pop"

[elrous0]

Wish I had some mod point love to give, my friend. I'm getting very sick of this romanticization of the "Mom and Pop" shop.

Mom and pop aren't going out of business just because the "supercenters" can undercut them a little on price. They're going out because their selections suck, the quality of their products is inconsistent, they offer poor service, and their shops are often dingy and old. Many of these "mom and pops" sat on their asses for years--refusing to innovate, refusing to offer new services (or better service) to their customers, thinking that they would always be in business just because of customer loyalty (as if customers were obligated to show them loyalty in spite of their poor service and irresponsiveness). They rested on their laurels and now they're getting burned for it.

When I was a kid, I grew up in a small town that had no major chain stores or fast-food franchises. All the local restaurants and stores offered half-assed service, hit-or-miss quality, poor old facilities, and no innovation at all (many had been around for thirty years or more and had never even so much as changed their menus or shelves). But what choice did we have?

Then one day, a major fast-food chain came in (a "Hardee's" for those of you familiar with them). They offered fast service, consistent quality, innovations like a drive-thru (which no local ever bothered installing, even though they had been around for years), etc. They even served breakfast in a town where most of the other restaurants didn't open before 11am.

Of course, the local restaurants shouted bloody murder. They tried to play the "mom and pop being driven out by the big bully" card. They tried to pass zoning restrictions to run the franchise out, then to prevent future franchises from locating there. And, at the very last minute before their demise, they even tried installing drive-thrus, improving their service, etc. But it was too little too late. They had rested comfortably on their laurels for decades, refusing to improve themselves, and now they're gone.

Good fucking riddance.

-Eric

Re: Every Little Helps

[hicksw]

One of their competitors is the German supermarket chain named LIDL.

The LIDL supermarkets are smaller, but I rather like their products.

LIDL really does help me. Thanks for reminding me, Tesco.

Re:Get yourself a few non disposable bags.

[drsquare]

I'm not being one of those sad fucks who takes bags to the supermarket. As far as I'm concerned they should provide them.