Radioactive Snails Crawl Up From Beneath

slidersv writes "Reuters is reporting discovery of radioactive snails in the area where three hydrogen bombs were lost by US in the 1966. The radioactive creatures crawl up from underground, where authorities suspect deposits of uranium and plutonium may be located."

Comments

Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[P(0)(!P(k) P(k 1))]

Jokes about radio-cochlear overlords aside, two things come to mind:

• If we don't survive nuclear holocaust: what creatures, more robust than we, will? (Reminds me of the thriving Chernobylian fauna.)
• What ungodly mutations must an organism undergo to thrive therein?

If the future is bleak for humanity, it may be less so for simpler, more robust organisms.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[TapeCutter]

"If the future is bleak for humanity, it may be less so for simpler, more robust organisms."

As George Carlin once said: "It's not the planet that needs saving, it's us!"

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[RsG]

Actually, IIRC, humans have a very low radiation tolerance. Some of the characteristics that serve us well in other areas are counterproductive for surviving radiation.

For example, we hit reproductive maturity late. This means that the time period in which we might be subject to radiation damage, but can't start breeding yet, is longer. Say hello to sterility and genetic damage! We're omnivores at the top of the food chain, so irradiation of plant and animal life can work it's way up to us more easily, either by subjecting us to contaminated food, or to starvation if food sources die out. We're social animals, so we do not do as well when our numbers take a hit - individual humans can't survive alone as well as other animals. Our life expectancy is fairly long, so the likelyhood of getting cancer is higher in humans than in most other species, since cancer takes time to develop.

All of the above means that biologically we're particularly vulnerable to fallout. Culturally we're also reluctant to subject ourselves to risk - a 1 in 100 rate of radiation damage would be too high for humans to consider safe, and too small to affect most other species. Most animals in the wild don't live long enough to have to worry about cancer, and it takes an awful lot more radiation in the short term to aflict them with radiation poisoning or sterility.

In fact, in the case of the Chernobyl life, we evacuated low radiation areas where the lack of human presense is doing more good than the radiation is doing harm - either the animals are more resistant than us, or they are suffering losses to radiation that we would consider dangerous, but that local life doesn't especially notice.

Basically what it boils down to is that nuclear accidents and nuclear weapons are a larger problem for mankind than for the rest of the planet. I've always thought of radiation as more of a safety hazard than an environmental one.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Loconut1389]

While not about radioactivity, this is related.

Funny enough, I was microwaving a bowl of soup yesterday and some sort of gnat-like bug flew in as I was shutting the door and I didn't notice until I saw it flying around while the microwave was running. For several minutes it just kept buzzing around like nothing bothered it at all. My only other experience with microwaved creatures was when I was young and a rather large spider (tarantula size) that had had me hunting my room for hours was finally caught- suffice it to say, he didn't fare nearly as well in the microwave. For the record I've not nuked anything else (poodles for instance) since. Anyway, as this little gnat buzzed around, I wondered how he could possibly survive in that environment.

Sometimes, against all odds, things survive where they shouldn't, and for no apparent reason. The miracle of life?

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[cyclomedia]

Another thing to add to the factors you mention is that when humans' offspring are not quite, shall we say, perfect. We do our damndest to save them, be it an emergency cesarean to save mother and baby both or via ongoing operations and treatments afterwards. The reason that so many seemingly health animals are seen hopping around Chernobyl could well be down to survival-of-the-fittest, radio-mutant embryos having been quickly aborted and another mating attempt made.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[odourpreventer]

> (poodles for instance)

So, what do you have against poodles?

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

What sorta BS is this? GP doesn't sound high to me. And WTF is "tosh"?

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[ozmanjusri]

The miracle of life?

The physics of microwaves.

The wavelength of your average microwave oven is about 1.2mm, so anything smaller than that can stay cool. Microwaves area also unevenly spread throughout the oven so there are areas where your gnat could have flown and not been affected.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing, but I usually put them in the blender before I warm my protein shake in the microwave. If you want to do it in reverse, fine with me.

On a culinary note: puppies are probably the tastiest blended animal that I've tried. And before the PETA nuts start harrassing me, I always put them in head first so they don't suffer.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[KTheorem]

Maybe he just wasn't hit by enough microwaves for it to really matter. For one, it's a small creature and therefore doesn't have as much space to collect radiant energy on. And second, microwaves are quite large in comparison to the average sized gnat and are too big to hit it. At least that's what I have gathered from my limited knowledge of the subject most of which I came to learn by explanations of why the sky is blue (the longer wavelengths don't get scattered by the molecules of air, which I take to mean that the molecules are too small).

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

Morbo: "Microwaves do not work that way!"

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[M1FCJ]

Typical microwave oven wavelength is about 12.2cm. You are two orders of magnitudes wrong. A typical microwave owen operates around 2.45GHz. Handy calculator for such stuff and more info at wikipedia. Last time I looked at my microwaveable pop-corn, the corns were definitely smaller than 12cm.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[rtyall]

Lets hope noone gets bitten by one of these suckers, then we'll have to put up with "Snailman" who can do anything that a snail can.
Cue very slow W 0 0 T.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

The old maturity age of humans may have actually worked for us. The background radiation has had more time to get us humans evolved through small DNA mutations. If you believe that crap.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not survival of the fittest..

The animals that survived clearly did so because they were more intelligently designed.

(Apologies to the person who made this comment last time around)

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

If god made humans in his image, does that mean he is also a weakling?

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

If the future is bleak for humanity, it may be less so for simpler, more robust organisms.

Scorpions are bound to survive a nuclear holocaust. Because of their very rugged structure they can withstand the radiation rather easily. And due to their somewhat 'weird' reproduction (all have both male and female parts in them) it makes their chances of survival a lot better than most other animals. Look at wikipedia (link) for more information.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[MightyYar]

He had a bad mirror.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[CagedBear]

If god made humans in his image, does that mean he is also a weakling?

OK, I'll take the bait.

The above posts said that humans are more susceptable to radiation problems because:
1. "we hit reproductive maturity late"
2. "We're omnivores at the top of the food chain"
3. "We're social animals"
4. "Our life expectancy is fairly long"
5. "We do our damndest to save them [our offspring]"

Where does the weak part come in? Besides, if humans are weak now, it's only because of the cushy society we have built. When we lived nomadic lives in the wild, we weren't weak. If we had been, we would be extict.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[endemoniada]

Do not try and bend God. That's impossible... Instead, only try to realize the truth.

What truth?

There is no God.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[BobTheLawyer]

The reason is that the ratio of surface area to volume for a small insect is very high, so they lose heat very quickly to the surrounding air (which, of course, the microwave doesn't heat).

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[the_bard17]

I thought microwave ovens popped corn by heating a thin packet of oil/butter/etc, which in turn heats and pops the kernels.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Fahrvergnuugen]

Maybe the planet just wants plastic all to itself?

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Ucklak]

Please hand in your geek card.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/legends/bl-p oodle.htm

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Gryle]

"We are not the pinnacle of evolution. That honorable distinction belongs to the lowly cockroach. Resistant to radiation, adaptable, and able to live for weeks at a time while headless. So if God created near-perfect beings in His image, I submit to you that God is a cockroach." - Mohinder Suresh, Heroes

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe he's referring to physical power, not our overall ability to survive. Compared to most animals, we're pretty pathetic fighting machines:

1. Bi-pedal stance provides horrifyingly poor balance
2. Little strength pound for pound
3. Eyesight is not well-suited to combat a fast target
4. Slow
5. Poor reflexes
6. No decent weapons (fangs, poison, claws, spines)
7. No significant protection (thick fur, heavy fat layer, thick skin)

You can train away most of these problems, but considering the type of high-energy diet required to do it, it seems highly unlikely that humans in the wild could get to the level of our tip-top athletes.

If we had been, we would be extict.

Not true. You don't have to be strong to survive. Rabbits get away with being almost helpless by reproducing at an outlandish rate. Non-venomous snakes do it by being very good at hiding themselves from hunters. Small monkeys do it by staying high in the trees where they can easily escape ground-based predators.

Humanity likely did it by being good at knowing when to stay the hell away from things that might eat it. Some biologists think human beings didn't even really start to live on the ground in any meaningful way until after they developed simple weapons to protect themselves.

I think it's a valid question. If we're made in God's image, does that mean that God has the same physical limitations that we do, meaning that even he wouldn't be particularly notable in the wild compared to a lot of other predators?

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Zaatxe]

(Reminds me of the thriving Chernobylian fauna.)

Nice article!! Does that mean that nuclear weapons are safe after all?
Sincerelly yours,

Kim Jong-il

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Single GNU Theory]

Popcorn pops when a bit of water inside each kernel gets hot enough to vaporize into steam and increases the intra-kernel pressure beyond the kernel shell's ability to contain it.

Microwave ovens work by directly heating the water contained within food or food-like substances, so I don't think the butter on microwave popcorn is there for anything besides flavor.

Pre-microwave popcorn-cooking-technology depended on the hot oil (with a much higher specific heat than air, for example, plus buttery goodness!) to transfer heat energy into the kernel quickly enough to vaporize the water and pop the kernel before the shell was burned to a crisp.

At least, that's how I think it works, heh.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[carnifex0]

7. No significant protection (thick fur, heavy fat layer, thick skin)

I don't know about you, but I have a pretty heavy fat layer....

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[hcob$]

When we lived nomadic lives in the wild, we weren't weak. If we had been, we would be extict.

Or as Geico would say...

We're so tough, we can easily beat up a caveman!

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

Speak like Yoda, almost you do.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Tony Hoyle]

Actually we're a lot more resistant that is commonly believed.

In the 60's they worked out how much radiation damage was caused by things like hiroshima and basically worked out our tolerance by drawing a straight line on a graph.

The problem is chernobyl has shown that it isn't a straight line at all - at low-medium radiation exposure we are quite hardy - just as resistant as the animals around us (as you would expect - there's nothing 'special' about humans that would make us especially vulnerable). Predicted mutations/cancers for those who live in the affected areas isn't anywhere near what the simplistic graph would predict... in fact it's barely above the background.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Ihlosi]

Nice article!! Does that mean that nuclear weapons are safe after all?
Sincerelly yours,

Kim Jong-il

Yes. Safe enough to keep and detonate under your bed (Nothing enhances male function like a nuke under your bed. It's better than kilotons of Viagra.).

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[famebait]

If we don't survive nuclear holocaust: what creatures, more robust than we, will

Or more importantly, in a fight, who would win:

• Radiocative snails
• Sharks with frickin lasers on their heads

Mod "Interesting" for snails, "Informative" for sharks.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

Immature Radioactive Samurai Slugs!

(the tiny toon adventures play on TMNT... :D )

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[suman28]

The planet can't think for itself....or it would have "kicked us out" a long time ago. It is the dwarfs, elves, and hobbits we need to be more worried about.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

"more robust than we?" Come on, man, think.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[lbmouse]

I don't know about you, but I have a pretty heavy fat layer....

Ditto. You and me are proof of how some humans survived our early existence. The members of our tribe didn't have to out-run the lion; they just had to out-run us.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[SRA8]

One must wonder what will grow out of Iraq in the next 20 years given the massive amounts of Depleted Uranium weaponry the US has littered the place with.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Waffle Iron]

In my experience, fats and oils absorb microwave energy more effectively than water, so if an item has both kinds of ingredients, the oil heats up much faster.

IIRC, microwave popcorn bags go one step farther by adding a sheet a special microwave absorber substance inside the bottom side of the bag. This quickly heats the oil and kernels by conduction to a higher temperature than they would naturally attain. That way they can pop before the shells start to get a scorched taste. It basically emulates a traditionally heated oil popper.

The key in popping any corn is to quickly get the steam pressure up to where the kernel explodes, then get the popped kernel away from the highest heat so they don't burn.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Nimey]

There is only Zuul?

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[RsG]

IIRC, what you're talking about is the theory that low levels of radiation are dealt with fully by cellular repair mechanisms up to a certain threshold, which makes perfect sense if you think about it. The older linear model of radiation exposure assumes that nothing can repair the damage caused by exposure, which ignores the fact we've been dealing with low levels of background radiation for all of our evolutionary history.

But that isn't restricted to humans. Background radiation is pervasive, and every form of life would have to develop some mechanism to deal with it. People are still more vulnerable than average for the reasons I listed in the GP; it just turns out we're probably able to tolerate low levels better than we used to believe.

The basic point I was trying to make was that a major nuclear accident, or war, would have far worse implications for humans (and other long lived apex predators) than for the rest of life on earth. What would be a disasterous level of fallout for us would be far less serious for animals that breed faster, or live shorter lives, or are otherwise in a good position to deal with the aftermath.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Ihlosi]

In my experience, fats and oils absorb microwave energy more effectively than water, so if an item has both kinds of ingredients, the oil heats up much faster.

Eh. Any physicist will disagree with you. Water is by far one of the most effective substances at absorbing microwave radiation because of its high dipole moment. Oils and fats are weak dipoles, if at all.

However, oils and fats have a lower heat capacity than water, which means they need to absorb less energy to raise their temperature by a given number of degrees. Also, most of them don't turn to steam before water does.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[DragonHawk]

"Say hello to sterility and genetic damage!"

Hello, sterility and genetic damge! Pleased to meet you.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Gulthek]

No matter how many times I repeat this, there are always more of you that don't "get it".

Evolution is NOT thwarted by allowing "weak" individuals to live. Evolution takes place when those better fit for reproducing reproduce *more* over the long term.

Evolution is not a progression towards a perfect being, it is a reaction to changing environmental stresses. You cannot stop it, it's not a Plan, it's just the mathematics of breeding played out over millennia.

Evolution depends on a varied gene pool to be able to pull new traits from. Removing any genes, even "bad" genes, from that tool box LIMITS the capability of our species to evolve. Taking your example to the extreme: kill off all genetic strains of humanity until you are left with a single "strongest" line. Now severely change the environment. The "strongest" is suddenly at a big disadvantage and our species, lacking any other lines to draw from, quickly becomes extinct.

How can so many of you people get this stuff so wrong? It's not like what I'm describing is a deep arcane mystery. It's obvious to anyone who spends more than two minutes considering how evolution works.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[odourpreventer]

Hold on. I admit feeling a slight breeze through my hair when posting, and also admit hitching a free ride on the geek bus, so I'll step off in a minute officer, but riddle me this: Since when do geeks do urban legends?

(Posted slightly tounge in cheek, it's coffee break, it's off-topic, whatever)

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[EQ]

Answer to you question: Nothing.

DU isnt regular uranium, learn the science, not the hype. There has been a study done on the effects of DU ammunition. The UNEP report concluded in 2001 and found that the hazards are minimal. The most significant hazard seems to be that someone will pick up a round and keep it in close proximity of their person for an extended period of time.

The interesting thing about the DU 'debate' is that most of the people who have done scientific studies on the DU will say 'it's not particularly dangerous, but there are so many factors involved, we can't be 100% sure' while the anti-DU activists always seem to have absolute certainty about their data despite it being based on shoddy papers by undergrads in unralted fields (geology instead of physics, for instance).

Bottom line is that DU is DEPLETED, and is about as radioactive as common dirt and as hazardous as any other heavy metal, like lead. You wouldn't want to make pipes or plates or silverware out of it, but other than that its simply not as "radioactive" as you make it out to be.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[RsG]

Eh, I wouldn't worry about DU's radioactivity. I'd worry about its toxicity.

After all, the stuff barely gives off radiation, and what it does emit is alpha particles, so what you really have to worry about is getting it into your system (it can't irradiate you through your skin). And if you do ingest/inhale it, you've got far worse things to worry about than radiation damage - heavy metal poisoning is far more likely.

What I don't get is why DU gets all the bad press, and white phosphorous, lead and napalm don't. Hell, if you want to look at the really nasty stuff left over after a war ends, landmines beat all of the above. Why does it only become "nasty" when it's got the slightest hint of radioactivity? Oh right, because it's that evil nucular stuff, so it must be worse... somehow.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[nschubach]

I read about as far as "First, to prevent heavy metal poisoning..." and I had flashbacks of concerts long past.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[kabocox]

Another thing to add to the factors you mention is that when humans' offspring are not quite, shall we say, perfect. We do our damndest to save them, be it an emergency cesarean to save mother and baby both or via ongoing operations and treatments afterwards. The reason that so many seemingly health animals are seen hopping around Chernobyl could well be down to survival-of-the-fittest, radio-mutant embryos having been quickly aborted and another mating attempt made.

I've always of been of mixed mind on this. My thoughts always run to abortion and how the same people that are pro abortion over here are against infanticide in areas where that's cultural accepted there, but abortion isn't something that they have. My thoughts aren't really on the pros/cons of abortion, but the apparently accepted in several cultures that placing an infant out for exposure or what we'd consider virtual infanticide is an accepted practise. I hate to even think along these lines, but we could "solve" many of our genetic diseases by just killing off that percentage of the population that displays those diseases or traits that we don't like. Those that survive would be healthy, but I wouldn't want to be one those that had been purged.

I rather like our means of trying to correct genetic disorders and such. I wear glasses. Think about the percentage of the population that wears glasses or contacts. We see that as an easily corrected genetic disorder. We have been breeding ourselves, but eye sight is a neutral trait that we've been "correcting" rather than breeding. Let's face it, we are human and have developed medicines and the entire health industry to extend the life of those that if left to nature would die with a vastly shorter life. Longer lifes and medical problems are parts of what makes us human.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[LandKurt]

I get what you're saying. There is a difference between individual fitness and species fitness. In the end it's the fitness of the species as a whole that matters. An important component of a species fitness is its genetic diversity which gives it flexibility to adapt to changes.

Still, I'm not sold on saving every gene we can. Some of the nasty mutations are best removed from the gene pool. But I agree it's impossible to predict what future use a seemingly undesirable change could have. In combination with some other change it might become a great advance.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[deviceb]

w00t ... great post! when does it start i'm so bored.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[alienmole]

The GP made a good argument, so it's hard to even guess the nature of your objection to it. Care to elaborate? Do you have some kind of "humans are all that matters" response?

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[eno2001]

Speaking on behalf of all the cavemen of the planet Earth, I take issue with your bigotry. Take it back. NOW.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[zimus]

There has been a study done on the effects of DU ammunition. The UNEP report concluded in 2001 and found that the hazards are minimal.

Actually DU shells are quite hazardous when they are flying through the air on their towards your person and/or vehicle. But aside from that, they're perfectly safe.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

Bullets don't kill people, death kills people. Ask any doctor - you can't die from a bullet. You can die from organ failure, or major haemorage, but a small piece of metal isn't the problem!

(Blatantly ripped off from a game, but still funny :-)

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[djh101010]

How can so many of you people get this stuff so wrong? It's not like what I'm describing is a deep arcane mystery. It's obvious to anyone who spends more than two minutes considering how evolution works.

Might I suggest that, while your point has some merits, the astonishingly arrogant tone you have chosen to use to take in delivering it isn't likely to be an effective teaching technique?

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Lurker2288]

You can't remove undesirable genes from a population by culling the afflicted, unless you have a disease which is caused by having bad copy of the gene. Take sickle cell anemia: if you magically killed everyone who has it this second, there would still be millions of carriers with a single bad copy of the gene who don't develop the disease. And if two carriers have children, 1/4 will likely be sickle cell.

Besides which, new mutations arise constantly, so even if you could wipe out all known genetic illness, something new would just show up to replace it.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[jordank2001]

7. No significant protection (thick fur, heavy fat layer, thick skin)

You're forgetting you're on slashdot where everyone has a heavy fat layer ;)

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anarke_Incarnate]

How do you do, Oblivion, how are the wife and kids?

My sincere apologies to Rocky Horror fans.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[elrous0]

Why do I suddenly feel like a horse at an auction?

"Folks, this next one is a prime North American Slashdotter. They bred 'em for using computers and pwning video games. They're not very good as studs, but they're very smart and loyal. Give 'em a bag of potato chips and a trough of soda in the morning, and they can code all day."

-Eric

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[darkmeridian]

Biological diversity is the keystone for evolution and the hardiness of a species. When genetic diversity of a species drops, such as through severe environmental factors or procreational bottlenecks, the entire species may become vulnerable to one selection factor. For instance, sickle cell anemia is considered to be a "disease". But if you were Africa without meds, that "disease" would save you from malaria. If you had weeded out all the guys with sickle cell and malaria came along, you'd have a lot of corpses with "perfect" DNA.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[stunt_penguin]

Tosh = polite upper/middle class english word for BS.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[SpecBear]

Do you live in the United States? Cuz round these parts we're still engaged in fierce debate over whether evolution actually happens. Most Americans think it doesn't, so they're not spending much time thinking of the "how".

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[profplump]

Technically, absent a lead->gold trick, most oils don't turn to steam at all, no matter how long you irradiate them.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on, man, think.

Since the comparative subject is in the nominative (“we”), the comparative object should be in the nominative as well (“we”, not “us”). Scilicet Deutsch.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[mpe]

Bottom line is that DU is DEPLETED, and is about as radioactive as common dirt

It's "depleted" in the sense that the proportion of U235 is less than in naturally occuring Uranium. U238 is still radioactive, as are it's "daughters".

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[puck01]

My single experience with a bug and a microwave was with a fly. As a teenage boy I caught a fly and put the thing in the microwave (I like to think I've grown up a bit since then). Upon starting the microwave, the thing flew around like mad. It continued to do this for about 30 seconds, then it landed on the bottom, sat there for about 5 seconds, then finally fell over dead.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[khallow]

Mod the parent post as "troll" if you think cockroaches will win, possibly with radioactivity and/or cranial mounted laser beams.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[EQ]

True - but even then the amount of radioactivity is minimal.

As another poster pointed out, its the toxicity you have to watch out for.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[demonbug]

The interesting thing about the DU 'debate' is that most of the people who have done scientific studies on the DU will say 'it's not particularly dangerous, but there are so many factors involved, we can't be 100% sure' while the anti-DU activists always seem to have absolute certainty about their data despite it being based on shoddy papers by undergrads in unralted fields (geology instead of physics, for instance).

While I generally agree with what you are saying, anyone who thinks geology is an unrelated field needs to be hit with a clue-batt. Radioactive isotopes are a widely used tool in several fields of geology, and are not exactly that difficult to understand. What happens to the depleted uranium once it is released in the environment is definitely solidly in the field of geology. That said, most geologists (or physicists, for that matter) would probably not have a good understanding of the effects DU has on humans - that would be more of a biology-related field. The point is, geologists would have at least as much usefull input as a physicist - probably far more. It is simple to say that the low-level radiation present in depleted uranium is not going to be a danger as long as it stays outside the skin, but it may be somewhat dangerous if it is ingested - although at that point, most heavy metals are just as poisonous. The part that would be a more interesting question (as in, harder to answer) is how the DU dust and fragments are transported and where they might end up. That is square in the field of geology.

That said, I agree that DU poses little or no more risk than alternatives (lead?). However, to discount research from a particular field just because you don't know what that field involves seems pretty, well, dumb (of course, it is still possible that there are really bad studies coming out of geologists who don't actually have a clue, but that happens in every field).

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[pluther]

"Learn the science not the hype" is always good advice.

But it implies learning the science, rather than just believing what you've been told by a different source that the science is.

Depleted Uranium is certainly more radioactive than common dirt. According to the UNEP report which you referenced, and of which a summary can be found on the WHO web site Depleted Uranium "is weakly radioactive and a radiation dose from it would be about 60% of that from purified natural uranium with the same mass." It's no use in current reactors, though we've been stockpiling it since the 50's for use in some future reactors which could make use of it. So far, none have, but it's still theoretically possible.

According to a pamphlet the US Army published for its troops back in the early 90's, DU can be relatively safe to handle, if all proper precautions are taken.

Unfortunately, I can't find the pamphlet right now, but, some of the interesting bits from it:

DU radiation is almost completely Alpha, with very little Beta, and no Gamma radiation. What this means is that it's very easy to block the radiation. A good lead-based paint (such as those used over the DU tank armor) is 100% effective. If the paint gets scratched (as tanks tend to do), covering the exposed area with duct tape will be safe enough.

It also recommends treatment for DU wounds, including making sure the wound is completely cleaned, and passing a geiger counter over the area to make sure everything was taken out.

The radiation in this case makes it actually safer, as it makes it easier to find, including areas sprayed with microscopic bits, as it has a tendency to powder if it passes through, say, steel.

The dusting is what makes it particularly dangerous to civilians: it passes through tanks on the battlefield, gets powdered, dissolves in rain, sinks into the ground, contaminates crops, and never goes away.

Uranium, whether depleted or not, is also highly toxic, on the level of arsenic, so it's not good to get into the bloodstream. (Of course, being shot with DU bullets will probably kill you long before you have to worry about it's poisonous effects.)

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[default luser]

What I don't get is why DU gets all the bad press, and white phosphorous, lead and napalm don't. Hell, if you want to look at the really nasty stuff left over after a war ends, landmines beat all of the above. Why does it only become "nasty" when it's got the slightest hint of radioactivity? Oh right, because it's that evil nucular stuff, so it must be worse... somehow.

I think it's because your average person doesn't understand the science behind nuclear reactions, so it's mostly "magic" to them. They lack the mathematics and physics background to contemplate how unstable atoms behave, and why they might give off alpha, beta or gamma particles.

Magical power is something to be feared. Since the media know they can't educate people, they instead use that powerful fear as a ratings tool.

The rest of the things you listed: napalm, landmines, etc...these are chemical and mechanical things. Even a country bumpkin who makes moonshine or lights his farts recognizes basic chemistry, and probably has mechanical aptitude. With that background, these other "nasty" weapons (even in great quantities) are not nearly as powerful as magic.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[st1d]

I've seen a similar thing in parking lots. A wasp or similar gets stuck in a car, and it flys around a little, as the car heats up. Then it starts buzzing around in what's best described as a mad attempt to escape. Then, it lands/falls, curls up, and dies. I've seen it happen a couple times over the course of my life, and my guess is the insect is overheated beyond repair when it starts doing the crazy buzzing, it just still has some ability to fly around a bit, on reflexes alone.

BTW, I'm not totally cold hearted about watching this happen. These days, when i see something struggling to get out of a hot car (bugs, pets, old people), I'll usually smash one or two of the windows so it can escape. ;)

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[kabocox]

You can't remove undesirable genes from a population by culling the afflicted, unless you have a disease which is caused by having bad copy of the gene. Take sickle cell anemia: if you magically killed everyone who has it this second, there would still be millions of carriers with a single bad copy of the gene who don't develop the disease. And if two carriers have children, 1/4 will likely be sickle cell.

Besides which, new mutations arise constantly, so even if you could wipe out all known genetic illness, something new would just show up to replace it.

I know it's not a good idea and I wouldn't want to live in the same solar system as a society that tried it, but I think that a society that would go that far would also develop methods for testing and killing off carriers as well. Actually, if I recall some "reasons" for cultures to follow the whole infanticide bit it was said infant didn't look normal, or sex imbalance, usually though it was an heir of a specific gender was wanted and all those of the other gender were discarded. The high tech version of that is doing a complete gene scan and if any undesirable genes are found to automatically abort it. The really elegant version would be to genetically engineer gene scans and auto-abort abilities into our females.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[icegreentea]

dunno. there is is some getting up in arms about wp. oh, and no one uses napalm anymore. the us kinda replaced it with cluster bombs.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

It's more important to note that Sickle Cell Trait is an advantage. People who carry one copy of the gene survive Malaria at higher rates. During a Malarial outbreak this gene becomes more prevalanet.

Two parent carriers have the best childern where Malaria occurs. There's a 50% chance of Sickle Cell Trait, and a 25% chance of no copies. Only a 25% chance of Sickle Cell Disease is left. That's a 75% rate of healthy children.

Now, imagine a "radiation resistance" gene. People who have it must get sunlight. They may die in the Arctic circle, but that's easier to control.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

The questions in that poll are garbage, designed to spin either way. Evolution is such a simple concept, yet it's presented as the opposite of any entity having a part. Of COURSE living creatures and plants that reproduce change through generations, that doesn't mean that has anything to do with how we got here.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

Radiation isn't really that bad for you. It takes a hell of a lot of radiation to do any real damage to you. That's why we don't see mutant super humans popping out of hiroshima like popcorn. Here is a good source of non FUD on radiation and nuclear stuff.

http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~blc/book/index.html

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[falconwolf]

And due to their somewhat 'weird' reproduction (all have both male and female parts in them) it makes their chances of survival a lot better than most other animals.

There are humans that have both male and female sexual reproductive organs to varying degrees. Check out wiki's page on Intersexuals.

Falcon

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[AK Marc]

Evolution is NOT thwarted by allowing "weak" individuals to live.

Yes, it is. Natural Selection is from "natural" forces selecting for the stronger individuals. Artificial support for individuals and encouragement of those that would naturally be unable to reproduce does interfere with Natural Selection. How much it interferes is a separate discussion, but as to whether it does or does not interfere is clear, and not in the manner you suggested. Perhaps we should call human evolution "modified natural selection" or somesuch. But as it stands, we do interfere with our own evolution.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

Heavy metal poisoning...I thought that ended with the 80's.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[TapeCutter]

Glad to see another Carlin fan in here.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[yusing]

I'd like to see the poll used on people who have actually learned something about evolution and can pass a short 10-point questionaire ... THEN they get to say whether they "believe" it or not.

After eliminating the 50% or whatever number of people who couldn't be bothered to learn but still "have a right to an opinion", I'm sure the 53percent number would drop precipitously.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

DU radiation is almost completely Alpha, with very little Beta, and no Gamma radiation. What this means is that it's very easy to block the radiation. A good lead-based paint (such as those used over the DU tank armor) is 100% effective. If the paint gets scratched (as tanks tend to do), covering the exposed area with duct tape will be safe enough.

Before accusing someone else of not understanding the science - you should learn it yourself.

Lead based paint isn't required to block the Alpha - ordinary latex or enamel picked up from the local hardware store will do just fine. (As will tissue paper from the craft store, or even a layer of plastic wrap from the grocery store.)

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[fyngyrz]

After eliminating the 50% or whatever number of people who couldn't be bothered to learn but still "have a right to an opinion", I'm sure the 53percent number would drop precipitously.

Sure. But the point is, large numbers of people can't be bothered to learn, yet they have an opinion, which more importantly translates into an effect upon society.

Your argument translates into "Only those who know what they are talking about should be allowed to have an opinion", which, while attractive on the face of it, would probably mostly lead to lynchings, rails, tar, feathers, free rides out of town, and so forth.

They want to believe there is a god and that he's up there, watching them, and that he made them, and that everything will be OK, even better than OK, when they die. It is important to them. You mess with that, you'll get hammered. Don't say you weren't warned.

Re:Radio-Cochlear Overlords

[fyngyrz]

I know it's not a good idea and I wouldn't want to live in the same solar system as a society that tried it,

Really? Look up eugenics... very popular in the US for a while. Sample quote for you:

The eugenists were also instrumental in initiating legislation and carrying out eugenic sterilisations on institutionalised mentally subnormal, the epileptic and the psychotic. Indeed, the eugenicist Leon F Whitney wrote, "We cannot but admire the foresight of the (German) plan (of sterilising 4,00,000 people) and realise by this action Germany is going to make herself a stronger nation". He also observed "the Negroes furnished six times as many sub-normals as did the native-born whites".

Oh no

[Tablizer]

Imagine all the stupid giant mutant nuke-spewing snail movies this will inspire. Bruce Willis versus ..... slime?

Re:Oh no

[Perseid]

I'm sure the Sci-Fi Original Movie is already in production.

Re:Oh no

[ozmanjusri]

I'm sure the Sci-Fi Original Movie is already in production.

Snails on a Plane?

Re:Oh no

[Anonymous Coward]

Bruce Willis versus ..... slime?

I'm cheering for the ugly one. I'll let you puzzle that one out :-)

Re:Oh no

[Ridcully]

The movie will be like "Them!" only much, much slower...

Re:Oh no

[Jugalator]

I can personally only think of "Get these motherfucking snails off this motherfucking ground!"

Re:Oh no

[Lost Penguin]

Next up:
Snails on a plane

Re:Oh no

[endemoniada]

That's it! I've had it with these mother-fucking snails in this mother-fucking nuclear plant!!!

Re:Oh no

[Bastard of Subhumani]

Next up: Snails on a plane

Prior art - Air France. Though these would have some advantages - they're self cooking, and you can find them in the dark.

Re:Oh no

[dargon]

I think someone beat them to it with 'Slither'

*Must* *resist*....

[EachLennyAPenny]

I for one welcome our radioactive overlords... Sorry, i tried.

Re:*Must* *resist*....

[aalu.paneer]

"...Crawl Up From Beneath"

Shouldn't this now be 'our radioactive underlords'

Re:*Must* *resist*....

[z4pp4]

Damn. Wanted to say the same thing... which led me to thinking: How long is this joke going to be stretched, and how long will it still be funny? Don't get me wrong, I think there is something inherently funny about it.
First quote: "I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords." - Kent Brockman, Simpsons Deep Space Homer.
Other clues:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashdot_subculture
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archive s/000403.html

Re:*Must* *resist*....

[alienmole]

Damn. Wanted to say the same thing... which led me to thinking: How long is this joke going to be stretched, and how long will it still be funny?

I, for one, welcome our overlord-joke-stretching overlords.

Holy fucking shit

[IICV]

From the summary: "Where three hydrogen bombs were (OMFG HOLY SHIT) lost by the US..."

(my emphasis added)

What the hell? How the fuck do you lose a goddamn hydrogen bomb? Did it fall out of someone's pockets or something like that? Perhaps we should move the sofa? Did it roll under the stove? And you know, the next two were just a complete surprise.

Just... wow. Holy shit. In general. Maybe if I read the actual article it would be less amazing.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[EachLennyAPenny]

> How the fuck do you lose a goddamn hydrogen bomb?
Maybe it was packed into the same box as the moon landing videos.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[ricardo_nz]

How right you are...:

The discovery of radioactive snails at a site in southeastern Spain where three U.S. hydrogen bombs fell by accident 40 years ago

Re:Holy fucking shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah.. If you read just a little further, it says that a bomb carrier crashed with a refuelling plane in the air.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[Anonymous Coward]

They didn't lose them.

Details -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palomares

Re:Holy fucking shit

[ricardo_nz]

Not so much 'lost' as misplaced: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palomares

Re:Holy fucking shit

[the.Ceph]

It ends up they basically found them after and detonated them which spread uranium and plutonium in the soil hence radioactive snails. But the summary definetly made it sound like the snails were the least of our problems.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[Anonymous Coward]

"How the fuck do you lose a goddamn hydrogen bomb?"

Uh, you crash a plane containing hydrogen bombs.

Technically, none of the bombs were "lost". The B-52 that crashed (due to a collision with a mid-air refueling tanker) carried 4 B28 1.1 megaton thermonuclear bombs. One of the bombs landed intact in the ocean, another landed intact on land, both were recovered. The parachutes on the other two bombs failed to deploy and their conventional high explosive charges went off when they hit the ground. Thankfully, the safety systems of the bombs prevented a nuclear explosion, but the conventional explosions nevertheless distributed a large quantity of radioactive bomb guts over a wide area (thus the contamination problems mentioned).

P.S. RTFA. UTFI (Use The F'ing Internet).

Re:Holy fucking shit

[edwardpickman]

Apparently you don't watch the news. The entire Republican party has been stricken with severe memmory loss. I hear the CDC is investigating the cause. No one in Congress can remember a single converstion they've had in the last six years. Truly sad and frightening that so many could be suffering such dramatic memmory loss with no apparent cause. Lossing a couple of hydrogens bombs pales by comparison. Also the military misplaced countless tons of nerve gas they happen to dump over the sides of boats back in the sixites and seventies. No one bothered to make maps and no one seems to remember where they dumped most of it. No worries, it'll turn up eventually.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[melchoir55]

This situation is the result of what is now popularly known as a "broken arrow". A nuclear weapons accident that does not produce the risk of nuclear war. The weapon (a missing weapon on the nuclear scale)would actually be known as an "empty quiver".

As reported by wikipedia, there are currently 11 such weapons known to be missing from the United States arsenal. It should be noted that these weapons are not the pitiful 1-5 kiloton weapons that Korea is detonating. It is likely they are 10+ megaton city-killers.

All that being said, I wouldn't worry too much about the situation. Anyone (or anything) with the capability to decipher how to actually set one of these missing weapons off is most likely nothing short of a country. Countries with nuclear weapons aren't something terribly dangerous, due to nuclear deterrance (MAD).
Add to that the fact that the US is unable to find these weapons (Some are presumed destroyed or at least damaged beyond repair)and I find it much less likely these will be a threat than, say, the car that passes by me when I walk to school.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[suntac]

Correct they did not lose them. They found them again. 3 of them on land and 1 of them in the ocean. However it is reported that the bombs, which landed on, land where damaged and burst open spilling it on a large slab of land. It is not reported what the condition was of the one that ended up in the ocean. If this one was also damaged and spilled a lot od waste it could still be out there and having a effect on the wildlife.

I however have never heard of strange creatures in the surroundings of chernobyl...? Not taking in account the misformed children from people who where working in the plant during the blast,... or where very close. They however where misformed and did not become radioactive themselves.

I would like to see some scientific reports on this....

Regards
Johan Louwers.

Re: Holy fucking shit

[Black Parrot]

> This situation is the result of what is now popularly known as a "broken arrow". A nuclear weapons accident that does not produce the risk of nuclear war. The weapon (a missing weapon on the nuclear scale)would actually be known as an "empty quiver".

Wonder what Freud would have said about that jargon...

Re:Holy fucking shit

[vought]

conventional explosions nevertheless distributed a large quantity of radioactive bomb guts over a wide area

Wow. Sounds like a very dirty bomb.

I sure hope the terra-ists never get a hold of that sort of thing.

It seems countries with WMD capability have been testing dirty bombs far longer than "W The President" told me! I hope he and his cowboy posse are able to round up the wrongdoers responsible for messing up the escargot crop...wait, that's French, right? I hate escargot.

Signed, Wingnut

Re:Holy fucking shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Which tells you the kind of people we are dealing with here.

Mid air refuelling is hazardous.

Nuclear weapons are hazardous.

When these idiots combine the two, WHO CARES what Afghanistan/Iraq/Iran/North Korea/insert-favourite-scapegoat-here do.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[jginspace]

"How the fuck do you lose a goddamn hydrogen bomb?"
"Uh, you crash a plane containing hydrogen bombs."

More here: http://www.milnet.com/cdiart.htm

The B-52 was returning to Seymour Johnson Air Force Base at Goldsboro, North Carolina, after flying the southern route of the SAC air alert missions (code named "Chrome Dome"). It was attempting its third refueling of the mission with a KC-135 tanker from the American base at Moron, southwestern Spain, near Sevilla. Although the official report of the cause of the accident was not released to the public, it is believed that while attempting to dock at 30,000 ft above the Spanish coast, the nozzle of the tanker's boom, which was supposed to hook up with the B-52's orifice, struck the bomber, ripping open the B-52 along its spine and causing aerodynamic stress which snapped the bomber into pieces. Flames spurted through both planes and the KC-135s 40,000 gallons of jet fuel ignited, killing its four crew members almost immediately. Four of the seven crew members of the B-52 managed to eject and parachute to safety.

From the above source: "[the second most serious nuclear weapons accident on record - MILNET]" (it also goes on to describe a similar accident at Thule).

Re:Holy fucking shit

[nametaken]

So I'm reading the wikipedia article you listed there, and I learn that they searched for one of the bombs using something called, "Bayesian search theory".

Who would have thought nuclear weaponry and anti-spam technology would be somehow related? :)

Re:Holy fucking shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually during the cold war era there have been a number of accidents that have led to eleven lost bombs. Accidents are more rare (or you don't hear about them) but they still occasionally happen. It's also interesting to note that according to the article the soviet union has lost about three or four times as many bombs. So it happens.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[zcream]

Wonder how many bombs have not been declared lost ?

Re:Holy fucking shit

[Walt Dismal]

Look here, the solution to the problem is simple and lucrative.

1) The French eat snails.

2) The French eat anything with garlic on it.

3) You takes your basic radioactive snails and then you puts your garlic on them nice and even like. Then you can em and sell em in France

4) Profit!!!

And it's only Frenchmen, so who cares what this does to their DNA. Maybe you'll get a glow-in-the-dark superpowered French mime. And he can fly, if he falls off the Eiffel Tower.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[Hawkxor]

the term bayes just means that conditional probabilities are being used..

Re:Holy fucking shit

[Hawkxor]

RTFA, they were recovered, just guts leaked...

Re:Holy fucking shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Who would have thought nuclear weaponry and anti-spam technology would be somehow related? :)

    Bayesian theory is just the good old probability theory used "right", as Laplace intended. Anti-spam is just a simple application.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[Mr. Underbridge]

Thankfully, the safety systems of the bombs prevented a nuclear explosion, but the conventional explosions nevertheless distributed a large quantity of radioactive bomb guts over a wide area (thus the contamination problems mentioned).

I think the safety system is that everything has to be timed very precisely to actually initiate a nuclear reaction, and smacking the ground ain't good for timing.

Maybe that's what happened when NK screwed theirs up. ;)

Re:Holy fucking shit

[steveo777]

Good Lord... Didn't you see Broken Arrow? John Travolta has them. But don't worry, teen hearthrob (of the 80's) Christian Slater will get them back.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[Beyond_GoodandEvil]

It should be noted that these weapons are not the pitiful 1-5 kiloton weapons that Korea is detonating. It is likely they are 10+ megaton city-killers.

It should also be noted that the thing that separates a 1-5 kiloton weapon from a 10+ megaton city killer is tritium which has a relatively short half-life of ~12 yrs thus after 40 yrs approx. 12.5% of the original tritium is around to create that megaton nuclear event. Thus these bombs are no longer "city-killers". Though the uranium and plutonium primaries should still be usable.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[JamesTRexx]

If only we could nuke those spammers from orbit...

Re:Holy fucking shit

[Ironsides]

I however have never heard of strange creatures in the surroundings of chernobyl...? Not taking in account the misformed children from people who where working in the plant during the blast,... or where very close. They however where misformed and did not become radioactive themselves.

Old Article on this:
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/04/2 0/2318242

"The BBC reports that wildlife has reappeared in the Chernobyl region even with high levels of radiation. Populations of animals both common and rare have increased substantially and there are tantalizing reports of bear footprints and confirmed reports of large colonies of wild boars and wolves. These animals are radioactive but otherwise healthy. A large number of animals died initially due to problems like destroyed thyroid glands but their offspring seem to be physically healthy. Experiments have shown the DNA strands have undergone considerable mutation but such mutations have not impacted crucial functions like reproduction. It is remarkable that such a phenomenon has occurred contrary to common assumptions about nuclear waste. The article includes some controversial statements recommending disposal of nuclear waste in tropical forests to keep forest land away from greedy developers and farmers"

Re:Holy fucking shit

[Mykid8yours]

You can't really call it lost though. They know where it is, they just forgot about it. Lost is like being marooned on an island with no one knowing where you are.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[Anonymous Coward]

I was in the Air Force when this happened. A B52 with the bombs on board crashed.
They locked us up on alert for a week under a "Broken Arrow" alert.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[cleocrazy]

Is it a coincidence that the tanker took off from a place called Moron?

Re: Holy fucking shit

[freeweed]

Insert "what would ICBMs look like if women ran the Pentagon" joke here...

Re:Holy fucking shit

[Anonymous Coward]

I always thought the MAD deterrent was, well, idiotic. Kind of in the same way as the following:

Edmund: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war in Europe, two superblocs developed: us, the French and the Russians on one side, and the Germans and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea was to have two vast opposing armies, each acting as the other's deterrent. That way there could never be a war.

Baldrick: But this is a sort of a war, isn't it, sir?

Edmund: Yes, that's right. You see, there was a tiny flaw in the plan.

George: What was that, sir?

Edmund: It was bollocks.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[daigu]

You only have to look at Hiroshima & Nagasaki to know that countries with nuclear weapons are extremely dangerous. There's a reason that the Doom's Day Clock exists and stands at seven minutes to midnight and that reason is to remind people that are deluding themselves that eventually someone is going to use these things. We all are on the edge of extinction. So please, don't make light of the harsh reality.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[CYDVicious]

Was the pilot ok?

Re:Holy fucking shit

[SixDimensionalArray]

Actually, the military used Bayesian subjective probability (a variation on the standard Bayesian probability theory) to find lost "toys" several times. The book "Blind Man's Bluff" (ISBN: 006103004X) actually describes how they used it to find sunken Russian test nuclear missles and some lost American weapons during the Cold War. It's a great read!

I have been fascinated by Bayesian subjective probability because, in layman's terms, the premise of it is that it uses the subjective opinion of an expert to extrapolate statistically what the most likely possible outcome is from a set of given scenarios.

In the case of these events in particular, BSP turned out to be quite accurate, thank goodness!

-6d

Re:Holy fucking shit

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the only way to be sure...

Re:Holy fucking shit

[alienmole]

MAD worked between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, though, right up until the collapse of the latter. As the Black Adder dialog says, this was "sort of a war", i.e. the Cold War, but it was a lot better than nukes going off in cities. In that situation, what was the alternative? Treaties? Peace? Ahahaha, you're so cute.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[mcmaddog]

Is no one else seeing the double entendre?

  Seymour Johnson.... "Chrome Dome".... attempting to dock.... nozzle of the tanker's boom, which was supposed to hook up with the B-52's orifice....

I know I'm a pervert, but come on, at first I thought this post was supposed to be a joke.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[myth24601]

Is no one else seeing the double entendre? Seymour Johnson.... "Chrome Dome".... attempting to dock.... nozzle of the tanker's boom, which was supposed to hook up with the B-52's orifice.... I know I'm a pervert, but come on, at first I thought this post was supposed to be a joke.

I guess I shouldn't have MODed it funny.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[stjobe]

We all are on the edge of extinction.

The eastern world, it is exploding, violence flarin', bullets loadin', you're old enough to kill, but not for votin', you don't believe in war, but what's that gun you're totin', and even the Jordan River has bodies floatin'.

Don't you understand what I'm tryin' to say, can't you feel the fears I'm feelin' today? If the button is pushed, there's no runnin' away. There'll be no one to save, with the world in a grave - Take a look around ya boy, it's bound to scare ya boy.

Yeah, my blood's so mad feels like coagulatin', I'm sitting here just contemplatin', I can't twist the truth, it knows no regulation. Handful of senators don't pass legislation and marches alone can't bring integration when human respect is disintegratin', this whole crazy world is just too frustratin'

Think of all the hate there is in Red China, then take a look around to Selma, Alabama. You may leave here for 4 days in space but when you return, it's the same old place. The poundin' of the drums, the pride and disgrace, you can bury your dead, but don't leave a trace. Hate your next-door neighbor, but don't forget to say grace.

And... tell me over and over and over and over again, my friend, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction.

- Barry McGuire

Re: Holy fucking shit

[RsG]

Insert "what would ICBMs look like if women ran the Pentagon" joke here...

Probably much the same, only they'd vibrate :-)

(A better question: What would the silos look like?)

Re:Holy fucking shit

[porcupine8]

Thankfully, the safety systems of the bombs prevented a nuclear explosion, but the conventional explosions nevertheless distributed a large quantity of radioactive bomb guts over a wide area (thus the contamination problems mentioned).

Ah, thank you. I did RTFA, but it wasn't very clear on what kind of explosion happened. It said they detonated, but I didn't know there were safeties to ensure they didn't *really* detonate. Which left a lot of questions in my head.

Re:Holy fucking shit

[willutah]

another landed intact on land

And now I know what inspired my favorite episode of Gilligan's island. Thank you.

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gilligan's_Is land_episodes see 1.18)

Re:Holy fucking shit

[HawkingMattress]

In fact the experiment was already tried on one french and while he believed the escargots were really tasty we can't handle more than one of this type of mutations. He can't even fly and some glowing camembert is continously pouring from his armpits.
On the other hand we believe the brits couldn't tell the difference between their christmas cake and some radioactive snails chips with vinegar mixed with grey goo, so we plan on testing it on them soon just to see if the resulting brit is more tony blair like, or monthy python like. They're both entertaining though so i don't care personally :P

Re:Holy fucking shit

[blake3737]

and tucked behind those, all of Iraq's WMD's

Re:Holy fucking shit

[sillybilly]

Escargot, madammes et monsigneurs?

The French....

[Revenge_of_Solver_Ta]

...are gonna git them some good eatin' now... Escarglow!

Re:The French....

[gardyloo]

J'accuse! I surrender to your wit.

Lame and overused joke extravaganza

[Redlazer]

I, for one, welcome our radioactive snail overloads.

Clearly, they are in cahoots with the giant bug that was found on Google Maps, not too long ago.

Also, I understand they are radioactive...

But do they run Linux?

On a more serious note, I find this fascinating - radioactivity is one of the least understood and possibly most useful sciences in the world.

-Red

Re:Lame and overused joke extravaganza

[flickwipe]

Simpsons section

Homer: Under the sea, under the sea, there'll be no accusations, just friendly radioactive crustaceans, under the ssseeeeeeaaaaaaaaa

Re:Lame and overused joke extravaganza

[Anonymous Coward]

How could you miss the Soviet Russia joke?!

Re:Lame and overused joke extravaganza

[Anonymous Coward]

In Soviet Russia, nuclear joke misses YOU! ;-)

It eats you, starting with your bottom

[Kris_J]

Isn't this not so much a non-story, as a story fragement, or story-ette, that's too small (or too specfic) to expect anyone to make comments other movie and TV references? Sounds like Quickie-fodder to me.

Re:It eats you, starting with your bottom

[Anonymous Coward]

Andrew, is that you?

Re:It eats you, starting with your bottom

[Anonymous Coward]

Who's Andrew?

Re:It eats you, starting with your bottom

[Cybrex]

The "It eats you, starting with your bottom" subject line is a quote from Andrew, one of the "nerd triad" in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. He was mis-translating an omen that actually meant "from beneath you, it devours".

Joss Whedon is my master now.

Re:It eats you, starting with your bottom

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, you mean Tucker's brother. I always forget his name.

I'm confused

[Nanpa]

Which is the appropriate joke for this thread? I welcome our snail overlords, snails with frickin laserbeams, or a permutation of the two?

Re:I'm confused

[Archon-X]

Snail overlords with frikken laserbeam antenna?

Re:I'm confused

[andersvirtualsolutio]

At least they are esy to find, you just wait until it gets dark and the glow kinda gives them away.

Re:I'm confused

[JhohannaVH]

Now *that* is the best comment on this whole thread... but I'm out of mod points, so I thought I'd just respond and tell you! :P

Spain

[jboker]

It looks like Spain is being very nice paying for half the initial costs of the investigation. Any ideas on what will happen if it is found that there is radioactive material in the soil from the US hydrogen bombs?

Re:Holy --deleted--

[robbak]

Sigh. From the article:
three U.S. hydrogen bombs fell by accident 40 years ago may trigger a new joint U.S.-Spanish clean-up operation, officials said on Wednesday.

The hydrogen bombs fell near the fishing village of Palomares in 1966 after a mid-air collision between a bomber and a refuelling craft, in which seven of 11 crewmen died.

Just one little word of advice

[grcumb]

If you're in Tokyo right now...

RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!

Re:Just one little word of advice

[Anonymous Coward]

Ho My God! It's Snail-zilla! We must Flee! [/end badly dubbed japanese]

Re:Just one little word of advice

[edwardpickman]

Ah, giant sushi! So much snail and so little rice!

Re:Just one little word of advice

[10Ghz]

It should take the snails about 2000 years to reach Tokyo. Unless they hitch a ride on a plane or something ("Snakes on a plane 2: Snails on a plane". You heard it here first!). So there's no rush. Yet. Assuming that the radioactivity didn't mutate them so that they can reach slithering-speeds of up to 200mph

Re:Just one little word of advice

[odourpreventer]

The little buggers in Slither were quite quick...

Re:Just one little word of advice

[dmatos]

Well, walk slowly for your life, anyway.

And what about Thule?

[jginspace]

I thought the TFA might be talking about the crash of the B52 in Thule. This incident refers to a 1966 crash in Spain whereas the Thule incident happened in 1968.

Perhaps scientists should check out the Thule site for similar happenings? More here: http://www.semp.us/biots/biot.php?biotID=5 and http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/low/dates/stories/ january/28/newsid_2506000/2506207.stm

Re:And what about Thule?

[vought]

"There's no snails in Thule. Some people want to undermine our efforts to bring plutonium to the Nokos, uh, Arctic Circle by saying that there are radioactive snails. I say those people hate our freedom."

-George W. Bush

Re:And what about Thule?

[isj]

Radioactive frozen snails?

Would make a great B-movie, though.

Re:And what about Thule?

[StarfishOne]

Snails? Frozen? That will give a whole new meaning to the hyper-slow-motion effect commonly known as 'bullet time'! ^_^

Some kind Fallout of reference...

[plams]

It begins with the radioactive snails.. but ends with the place crawling with radscorpions and glowing geckos! Run for your lives!

time for

[the_last_rites]

i for one welcome our slimy radioactive underlords But no seriously, i thought these things happened only in comic books

I for one

[JanneM]

I for one will be happy to welcome our radioactive slime-spouting overlords.

In, oh, just over twenty years, which is the time it'll take for the snails to crawl from Spain to menace Tokyo (which, as we all know, is the ultimate goal of everything radioactive, oversize or alien in this world).

Re:I for one

[Chaffar]

In, oh, just over twenty years, which is the time it'll take for the snails to crawl from Spain to menace Tokyo

The distance between Spain and Japan is 10705.50 km. Knowing that a garden snail moves at around 0.013 m/s, this would mean that it would take him 823 500 000 seconds to cover, or around 9531 days (26+ years). So we can see that your initial projection of just over twenty years was bang-on ! I can't wait for 2032 :D

Re:I for one

[Arimus]

But you're forgetting something: these are radioactive snails and so might be capable of speeds far in excess of what we usually expect a snail to do, maybe even as high as a 1m/s

Re:I for one

[o'reor]

How should we call them ? SlimeZilla ? SnailZilla ?

Re:I for one

[mike2R]

In, oh, just over twenty years, which is the time it'll take for the snails to crawl from Spain to menace Tokyo (which, as we all know, is the ultimate goal of everything radioactive, oversize or alien in this world).

Spoken like a man who hasn't seen the Guinness advert. Be afraid..

I think that's the right one - I don't have Real Player on this machine to check.

Re:I for one

[ronaldb64]

How about Escargodzilla?

Re:I for one

[JanneM]

Yeah, I guesstimated the distance based on the distance to Sweden and I lowballed it a bit.

On the other hand, since they're radioactive they can of course tunnel straight through instead of bothering with this great-circle business, which would put my estimate back on track.

Plenty of time to make lead-lined welcome banners anyhow.

Re:I for one

[yusing]

WHERE ELSE, oh lord, can I see an actual calculation of how long it takes a snail to get from Spain to Tokyo?

Slashdot ... makes me miss my bamboo sliderule.

Re:I for one

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, hate to say it but 0.013 m/s is ridiculously fast for a snail! Having watched many snails in my life, I'd estimate you're an order of magnitude out, putting our average garden snail really at 0.0013 m/s, which translates into 260+ years. Now, that's a motivated snail that's never sleeping, eating or curling up in its shell in fright. Given misc delay factors, plus the fact that direct flight is a much, much shorter distance than land traversal distance because of obstructions and changing elevation, I'd put our ETA at about 1,000 years. Under snail power, of course.

Re:I for one

[barath_s]

Is that the ground speed velocity of a laden or unladen snail ?

Re:I for one

[Anonymous Coward]

Um ... land snails are hermaphrodites. Therefore, it is not correct to refer to them with either gender-specific (he or she) pronoun.

My Favorite TV Show

[JimZim]

Teenage Mutant Ninja...Snails?

Re:My Favorite TV Show

[ady1]

Where turtles can live hundred of years (supposedly even after mutation), snails are less likely to reach the mentioned teenage. In summarty the show needs a change of name.

Re:My Favorite TV Show

[bla]

Immature Radioactive Samurai Slugs!

(no one will get this. i can't even remember what tv show it was from anymore. tiny toons, i think)

Re:My Favorite TV Show

[wikdwarlock]

Absolutely it was Tiny Toons! Plucky and Hampton loved this show, and the arch-enemy of the Slugs was the guy w/ salt shakers for fingers!

Re:Holy fucking shit - someone set us up the bomb

[Anonymous Coward]

The bombs were found. a few of them exploded on impact though. By exploded I mean the high explosive shells detonated but not in the way that sets off a nuclear reaction.
 
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palomares
 
Or you could just RTFA.

Snail Jokes

[ExploHD]

If anyone post anymore snail jokes, they will be slugged.

Re:Snail Jokes

[RsG]

Would that be with a uranium slug? :-)

Re:Snail Jokes

[hcdejong]

I was going to say that, but you beat me to it. I'm feeling a little sluggish today.

Re:Snail Jokes

[Archon-X]

I feel obligated to advise all those more humourous than I:
Top points will be awarded for the person who can tie in an 'escargot' pun.
Extra points if it bashes the french.

Re:Snail Jokes

[Anonymous Coward]

You're too late. Somebody already made a joke about escarglow :-) Read at 0 and you'll see this stuff, if you can put up with the crap that goes along with it.

Re:Snail Jokes

[TempeTerra]

Violence is not the way! Think of the hazard caused by discarded shells!

Re:Snail Jokes

[clickclickdrone]

Slimeball - we're on your trail. Better get back in your shell because we're going to butter you up good.

Re:Snail Jokes

[Kazymyr]

Escarglow... already done. Pfft!

Re:Snail Jokes

[Archon-X]

Sure, but it contained no french bashing.
Shame on them.

Re:Snail Jokes

[Hillgiant]

Well, a full division of French soldiers managed to surrender to the snails before their superiors intervened.

Re:Snail Jokes

[Anonymous Coward]

That was horrible. Now go back into your shell.

KKND

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm reminded of the game (and intro video of) KKND

ah, I get it...

[loteck]

sorry, I'm a little slow.

Abdication of responsibility?

[Travoltus]

Why should Spain pay for part of the clean-up? It was our mess. We should be cleaning it up. Either the military goes in and fixes it, or we taxpayers foot it.

When I was a kid, I was raised to clean up the mess I made, not entangle everyone else (financially) into the task. I broke a window, I worked it off.

It's all about responsibility...

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[Anonymous Coward]

When will the US act as a responsibile part of the world? ummmm ... my guess is never. The US is just a spoiled bratt.

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[Barnoid]

Why should Spain pay for part of the clean-up? It was our mess. We should be cleaning it up. Either the military goes in and fixes it, or we taxpayers foot it.

From TFA: The governments have yet to agree on who would pay for a clean up, according to a U.S. embassy spokesman in Spain.
...

Since 1966, the United States has helped pay for Palomares residents to be checked for signs of radiation poisoning.

Well, at least they are still talking about it. Even though I generally disagree with US foreign policy, in this case, it seems that there's not (yet) much to complain about.

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[RealGrouchy]

Either the military goes in and fixes it, or we taxpayers foot it.

Psst: the military is paid for by taxes.

Just thought you'd like to know that.

- RG>

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[OneSmartFellow]

Why should Spain pay for part of the clean-up?
How about because the actions were being performed by NATO forces and the incident occured over a NATO country.
Spain benefited from the presence of NATO, so it is just that they absorb some of the cost of NATO actions.

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[konekoniku]

It was a NATO operation, flown by the US in protection of its NATO allies in Western Europe. In that sense, the US was performing a service on behalf of Spain (among others). Due to this fact, Spain is also footing part of the bill, in recognition that the known risks of such an accident were borne by the US in part on behalf of Spain.

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[Anonymous Coward]

Spain didn't belong to NATO at this time. Spain belongs to NATO since 20-25 years ago.

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[cocotoni]

Bzzzzzt!

Spain was not member of NATO in '66. Spain only joined NATO after democratization in '82.

It's like people that think that Hawaii was part of US in time of Pearl Harbor.

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[Smurf]

It's like people that think that Hawaii was part of US in time of Pearl Harbor.

Actually, Hawaii was a US territory at the time of Pearl Harbor. It wasn't a state, and did not become one until 1959, but it was part of the US nevertheless.

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[Anonymous Coward]

Communist. Next you'll be suggesting the US pays reparations to all the countries it's started wars against!

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[tgv]

As stated before, Spain was not in NATO at that time. And NATO does not have any control over nuclear weapons: the US has it.

If some oil carrier spilled a large part of its cargo somewhere, say Alaska, would you say that the people living there should pay for the cleaning? After all, it was there for the good of these people as well and they knew the risks living near the coast...

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except when it's paid for by CIA-owned drug ventures or illegal weapon sales.

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[maxume]

Presumably, when the bomber crashed, it was there serving the interests of both the US and Spain.

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[OneSmartFellow]

*irony* Picky, picky, picky. */irony*
That will -maybe- teach me to post without checking my facts !

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[dcam]

Bush grew up without having to work for anything...

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[Anonymous Coward]

You ignorant idiot. The only interests the US were serving in Spain by that time were the interests of the killer dictator of Spain.

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[RexRhino]

It isn't an abdication of U.S. responsibility. When the U.S. was given permission to fly bomber patrols over Spanish airspace, the U.S. and Spain signed an agreement with specific terms, responsibilites, and conditions. Obviously, they must have agreed to split the cost of any sort of clean up.

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[smithmc]

  It's like people that think that Hawaii was part of US in time of Pearl Harbor.

Hawaii was part of the US in 1941, it just wasn't a state.

Re:Abdication of responsibility?

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

Not part of NATO, but had signed some military cooperation pacts.

Why were they flying nuclear bombs around in 1966?

[Heir Of The Mess]

I'm not really good at history, so I'm wondering if someone could explain why in 1966 the Americans had B-52 bombers flying over Spain carrying 4 nuclear bombs.

Was this some kind of pre-emptive strike plan?

We're ICBMs not so good back then?

It seems to me that if you could damage and capture one of these planes, you could lay your hands on 4 nuclear bombs. Something that would be a bit of a security risk.

Snails, eh?

[SinGunner]

This one definitely gets tagged SLOWnewsday.

Re:Why were they flying nuclear bombs around in 19

[Spookticus]

They were trying to get rid of the spanish inquisition before monty python showed up

Re:Why were they flying nuclear bombs around in 19

[RsG]

It seems to me that if you could damage and capture one of these planes, you could lay your hands on 4 nuclear bombs. Something that would be a bit of a security risk.

Who'd want to? In 1966 the bad guys were the USSR, and they didn't need another piddling 4 nukes when they already had thousands. Plus downing a nuclear-armed bomber without anyone noticing or retaliating would have been difficult.

As for why it was there, the US had plenty of nukes in western Europe, with the idea that if a war broke out, those bombs would be headed into Russia. Where this particular plane was going I do not know, but it wasn't alone or out of place over Spain.

Who lost them?

[Solo-Malee]

I guess the same guy lost these that lost the Apollo Moon landing tapes

"I feel like I could... like I could..."

[Stilte]

TAKE ON THE WORLD! The Day of the Tentacle is upon us. :P

Re:Why were they flying nuclear bombs around in 19

[aadvancedGIR]

ICBM is one thing, but both sides also had some nuclear bombers waiting near the ennemy borders 24*7 to either back up a first strike ICBM launch or retaliate if the homeland was destroyed. I don't have the details, but I think Spain was just on their route from an US base to the waiting point when they had that accident.

Have you ever seen Dr Strangelove? Of course, it is a comedy, but it is based on a real situation: during cold war, there were constantly dozens of nuclear warheads flying around with the risk of something going wrong. That accident was fortunately in the lower range of possible consequences.

You forgot one

[The Wooden Badger]

Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these...

I'd put in the crappy 4 steps to profit one, but I don't feel like it right now.

Re:You forgot one

[Anonymous Coward]

And of course,

3. ?????

4. Profit!
 
Could be very profitable for terrorists.

Radioactive snail?

[AndyboyH]

so what if one of these radioactive snails bites a human? "Snailman, Snailman, does whatever, a snail can..." doesn't sound quite right, does it? But I'm sure he could face off against Doc Squid, The Green Leprechaun, and his evil alien clone, Poison?

wikipedia is your friend

[bananaendian]

I'm not really good at history, so I'm wondering if someone could explain why in 1966 the Americans had B-52 bombers flying over Spain carrying 4 nuclear bombs.

The B-52s were performing Airborne Nuclear Alert duty under the code-name "Chrome Dome" where bombers would loiter near points outside of the Soviet Union (see Dr. Strangelove).

During this program a mid-air collision between a B-52 and a KC-135 tanker aircraft occurred during aerial refueling over Palomares, Spain on the 17th of January, 1966.

Four megaton-range hydrogen bombs were lost. Two were recovered eventually fairly intact while the other two underwent a minor detonation of the conventional explosives that were an integral part of them. The safety fuses in them prevented a disastrous nuclear detonation. However dispersion of both plutonium and uranium material over several hundred hectares resulted in thousands of tons of contaminated radioactive soil having to be sent back to the USA. The USAF decided this was too expensive to risk again, and it ended that part of the airborne alert program.

There have been several reports of contamination remaining in the area in recent years and currently U.S and Spanish governments have agreed to investigate the need for further clean up, this time sharing the costs.

Interestingly the search efford for the missing bomb out at sea was performed using the Bayesian search theory. Eventually the bomb was recoved with the help of a local fisherman, who then claimed salvage rights from it under the high seas (usually a reward of a few percent of the actual value). But not before U.S. Defense Secretary Robert McNamara had publicly stated a value of no less than two billion U.S. dollars for it. The Air Force settled out of court.

Re:wikipedia is your friend

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI, government property does not fall under international salvage law, ever. Salvage law is not equivalent to "finders keepers", it's actually much more complex.

Re:wikipedia is your friend

[tgv]

OK, so you're karma whoring, fine. But could you at least correct the spelling errors: "the search efford" has hurt my eyes.

Re:Why were they flying nuclear bombs around in 19

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, of course it's far too hard for you to do any fucking research on the subject, but you still feel free to spout off nonsense about how this sounds like a security risk. Idiot.

I, for one...

[BiggerIsBetter]

They were trying to get rid of the spanish inquisition before monty python showed up

I, for one, didn't expect that.

Re:I, for one...

[CortoMaltese]

I, for one, didn't expect that.

Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition!

(It just had to be said.)

Re:I, for one...

[geekoid]

I, for one, welcome are new comfy chair wielding overlords.

Re:Why were they flying nuclear bombs around in 19

[Heir Of The Mess]

So a "Broken Arrow" isn't a security risk then. Maybe you should do some research on risk so you can back you your argument about it being nonsense.

Dinner @ home

[joaommp]

The first meal I'm gonna be serving my mother-in-law, when I have one, it will be Escargot a La Nuke.

Re:Dinner @ home

[The_Mr_Flibble]

Do they cook themselves ?

Re:Dinner @ home

[joaommp]

Yeah, its like those self heating soup and coffee cans, you just pull the seal off, in this case, the snail "antennae" off :P

Re:Dinner @ home

[PeelBoy]

That's some killer Escargot

There's also a bomb off the coast of Georgia

[maetenloch]

Don't forget about the Tybee hydrogen bomb, lost in 1958 during a collision between two planes. The Air Force has never located it, and it's presumed to still be buried in mud just off the coast of Savannah, GA. Supposedly it didn't have the plutonium core installed, but did have enriched uranium and high explosives.

Re:Why were they flying nuclear bombs around in 19

[mjwx]

You see, back in the 50's and 60's US politicians were notoriously paranoid and Nuclear armed ICBM's and boomer Submarines having not been invented yet to satisfy the paranoid pollie's fragile ego's (apparently having a few "large missiles" hanging around made them feel better about their own shortcomings) they decided to have nuclear armed bombers flying around 24 hours a day so when the when the obviously nefarious USSR launched its nuclear attack the free world (USA) would be able to respond and ensure that freedom wins by making sure that everybody dies. Yay freedom. /sarcastic British accent

On a more serious note, as what became known "America's Nuclear deterant" the US formed SAC (Strategic Air Command, the best acronym ever) which kept 3 nuclear armed bombers flying constantly around three different pre-prepared routes the purpose of which was to dissuade the USSR from launching a nuclear attack. As I remember one was over the Arctic circle based in Alaska. The second was over the Mediterranean from the East US coast. The third was over the north sea but I'm not sure about that one.

Well as anyone should be able to figure out you cant keep bombers flying 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for years and not expect an accident. Equipment degrades, Maintenance schedules slip and crews get tired so simply by the laws of probability there will be accidents. This wasn't the only accident either but the others weren't so serious, in fact this one was serious enough to become the catalyst for stopping the program especially as satellite surveillance and ranged ballistic missiles were becoming more popular.

Re:Why were they flying nuclear bombs around in 19

[Anonymous Coward]

The small risk of an accident causing a nuclear warhead to get into the hands of the enemy when said enemy already has tens of thousands of them was vastly preferable to the large risk of the enemy perceiving our second-strike capability as lacking, and launching a first strike.

This was borne out by the fact that no nuclear warheads fell into the hands of the enemy, and the enemy never launched a strike.

Yes, it was a risk, but your sarcastic know-it-all tone while admitting that you're clueless makes you sound like an idiot.

I'm sitting here on the outskirts of Tokyo...

[achurch]

And now I have to worry about not just nuclear excitement to the northwest, but also radioactive snails??

Well, I guess I can at least give a play-by-play when they---holy shit WHAT'S THAT?! NO NO NOT WITH THE TAIL NOOOOOOOO

NO CARRIER

Re:There's also a bomb off the coast of Georgia !!

[Anonymous Coward]

There are about 14 other missing Hbomb sites. that georgia one is one of very many!

look them up

Kosher food

[iendedi]

It's interesting to think about what kinds of food would be safe to eat after a large scale nuclear war. You certainly couldn't eat shellfish or snails, because they soak up toxins very readily. Also, you should probably avoid pigs, because they eat everything. And, if you eat meat, it would be advisable to bleed it first because toxins build up in the blood.

Makes you wonder about the real history of Kosher laws in Judaism.

Re:Kosher food

[Anonymous Coward]

Makes you wonder about the real history of Kosher laws in Judaism.

Indeed. I imagine the radioactive exhaust of the flying saucer that parted the Red Sea contaminated some of the food supply for at least the next 40 years. Coincidence?

Re:Kosher food

[kabz]

Is that you Von Daniken?

Never, never, never allow your kids to read any paranoid UFO stuff. They will only *believe* it.

Re:Kosher food

[pklong]

After a nuclear war you would be eating any food you could get your hands on. Starvation would be the long term killer after society breaks down. You would probably be initially eating a lot of meat as it wouldbe hard to feed livestock, then anything you could get your hands on.

Re:Kosher food

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd probably just off myself rather than live through the effects of radiation poisoning.

Re:Kosher food

[lawpoop]

There is an anthropologist by the name of Mary Douglas who developed a theory of why certain animals were not Kosher. The theory is from sturctural anthropology, which holds that behavior is best explained by a mental model that people hold, that isn't necessarily logical.

Here, the mental model is based on Genesis. God created the world by seperating opposites: light from dark, earth from sky, land from water. ( Opposites and synthesis are important in stuctural anthropology analises). He then set about creating categories of wildlife: birds of the sky, fish of the sea, animals of the land. They had specific features that denoted their categories. Everything God made was "according to its kind".

The idea of Kosher is maintaining the seperations that God originally set up during creation -- not mixing different types of thread, etc. Leviticus 19:19: "'Keep my decrees. " 'Do not mate different kinds of animals. " 'Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. " 'Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material." I believe one translation of the Hewbrew word 'holy' is 'seperate' or 'set apart'.

So, to get down to animals. The animals were created by their 'kind', and they have hallmarks that denote them. So birds of the air have wings, and they fly. Flightless birds, such as penguins and ostriches, aren't really birds of the air, so they aren't kosher. Fish of the sea swim about, so things such as snails and clams without scales and fins aren't really fish of the sea, so they aren't kosher. There are two kinds of animals, wild and domestic. The hallmarks of domestic animals are that they have cloven hooves, and they chew their cud, so pigs and camels are out. If you look in Leviticus, all of the things are not kosher are called 'abominations'. They are monstrosities, freaks that don't fit into their respective categories.

I did talk to *one* Rabbi and he didn't buy this theory because it denied that the laws were a result of divine revelation. I would guess that he also wouldn't buy the 'health' theory because of the same reason.

I do not deny it probably isn't healthy to eat pigs and shellfish in the Middle East. However, I don't think that was a conscious reason they didn't eat them -- that may have helped the survival of the Jews, but that's putting the cart before the horse. They didn't eat pigs because they were monsters, freaks, that lived with people but didn't have hoofs and chew their cud. God created the animals 'according to their kind', and Leviticus spefically calls these things 'abominations'. They are freaks that don't fit in.

The health theory of the laws of Leviticus don't really explain why camels or hawks aren't kosher. It really only works for pigs and shellfish. I would also say that this theory works better is because is holds for animals that Jews later enountered and deemed unkosher, such as penguins and ostriches (birds of the air that don't fly, or fish of the sea without fins and scales, etc).

Re:Kosher food

[Anonymous Coward]

According to The Deadly Years, radiation poisioning just makes you grow old really quick, the cure being adrenaline.

So we're safe, right? I mean, it worked for Kirk, Scotty, McCoy, and Spock!

Re:Kosher food

[Pasquina]

Does a radioactive cat have 18 half-lives?

Re:Kosher food

[AJWM]

We won't know for sure until we open the box.

Re:Kosher food

[rts008]

Interesting theory, but I have to wonder just how much of a problem those unclean penguins were in the middle east.

I suppose next you will be trying to tell us that Linux/Tux is not kosher.

Re:Kosher food

[lawpoop]

The reason I bring up penguins is that this theory makes correct predictions about animals that aren't specifically referenced in the Bible. So the health theory doesn't really say anything about penguins or ostriches -- I don't know if they are particularly germy, like pigs.

But 2000 years later, when Jews are living all around the world, and they have to decide whether or not new animals, such as ostriches or penguins, are Kosher, the Douglas' structural theory correctly predicts that they aren't Kosher. In fact, when you look at whether or not new animals are Kosher, Douglas' theory generally makes correct predictions, whereas the germ theory is kind of mum.

Re:Kosher food

[FernandoBR]

Nah, the cat won't be in there anymore...

Re:Kosher food

[orielbean]

Word to that - I read those books myself. It is the allegory to the current Intelligent Design - "If we can't prove it 100%, then it was God/Aliens that did it deliberately."

Re:Kosher food

[dreamlax]

No pigs don't eat everything, goats eat everything. I remember feeding a goat a gumboot once, had absolutely no idea how that works . . . it's like they eat everything, take what they need and pass the rest! I was also feeding the same goat some stale biscuits out of the original wrapping, and it seemed more interested in the wrapping!

Now, tasty fried bacon and eggs . . . or gumboot goat meat . . . your decision.

Re:Kosher food

[StikyPad]

So yes.

And no.

Re:Kosher food

[iendedi]

But 2000 years later, when Jews are living all around the world, and they have to decide whether or not new animals, such as ostriches or penguins, are Kosher, the Douglas' structural theory correctly predicts that they aren't Kosher. In fact, when you look at whether or not new animals are Kosher, Douglas' theory generally makes correct predictions, whereas the germ theory is kind of mum.

Umm, your going to have to help me follow your logic here. You say that the Douglas' structural theory correctly predicts Kosherness of animals that were not originaly specified by divine revelation. So does that mean that God is somehow still involved in Kosher classification?

What I was really eluding to was a theory that there was in fact some sort of radioactive incident in the distant past (such as the nuclear wars written about in ancient Hindu writings and whatnot). The idea is that the jewish Kosher laws were inhereted from a much more ancient time when such laws were neccessary for survival in a post nuclear apocalyptic world.

Re:Kosher food

[lawpoop]

"Umm, your going to have to help me follow your logic here. You say that the Douglas' structural theory correctly predicts Kosherness of animals that were not originaly specified by divine revelation. So does that mean that God is somehow still involved in Kosher classification?"

It depends on what 'involved' means.

A lot of people are looking for rational reasons to explain why certain animals are kosher and some are not, other than "God said so; that's all we need". (The one rabbi I spoke to was satisfied with the "God said so" answer.) A lot of people buy the 'health' theory -- that it was dangerous to eat pork and shelfish in the hot middle-eastern climate. However, pigs and shelfish are a small part of the animals considered to be unkosher. Why aren't camels kosher? Why not birds of prey? This is where the health theory fails -- they aren't particularly germy. It's not even clear that pigs or shelfish are really that dangerous, any more than other kinds of meat in the hot sun. There are a lot of unkosher animals that are perfectly healthy to eat, even in the middle east.

Douglas' theory is that unkosher animals are unkosher because they don't fit in with the categories or kinds of animals that God created in the six days of creation. This seems to explain *every* animal listed as not Kosher.

It also accurately predicts what animals are later ruled unkosher. If God's specification of Kosherness is based on categories, or otherwise similar to Douglas' theory, I guess you could stay that God is still sort of declaring certain animals clean and unclean.

Sorry, I'm lost on the nuclear war bit. Are pigs and shelfish more susceptible to storing radioactive particles, moreso than other animals? Where can I read more about the wars in Hindu writings?

This is mere ONE of about 14 other nuke accidents!

[Anonymous Coward]

USA NUCLEAR WEAPONS LOST or MISSING

March 10, 1956, Over the Mediterranean Sea
July 28, 1957, Over the Atlantic Ocean
February 5, 1958, Savannah River, Georgia
February 12, 1958 Savannah, Georgia
September 25, 1959, Off Whidbey Island, Washington
January 24, 1961, Goldsboro, North Carolina
December 5, 1965, Aboard the USS Ticonderoga (CVA-14) in the Pacific Ocean
Spring 1968, Aboard the USS Scorpion (SSN-589) in the Atlantic Ocean

List does not include the much larger list of fully recovered and contained accidental weapons drops.

Some diverted material (noit in weapons) was CIA swapped to israel some think.

Enough weapons grade plutonium was mysteriously stolen from the US gov over the decades, according to accurate reports, to build over 20 H bombs.

Spanish Wikipedia

[Anonymous Coward]

"Se calcula que el 15% del plutonio, unos 3kg en estado natural, en óxidos y en nitratos, quedó esparcido en forma pulverizada y fue irrecuperable."

Forgive my terrible translation to english ;-)

"It's calculated that 15% of plutonium, about 3 kilogrames in natural state, in oxides and nitrates, spreaded in pulverized form and was non-recoverable"

"Recientes mediciones relativas a la presencia de plutonio radiactivo (que se disuelve muy mal en el agua) en el plancton del Mediterráneo Español han hecho pensar a muchos científicos que hubo una quinta bomba, nunca recuperada y ocultada por los Estados Unidos a los gobiernos de la democracia."

"Recent measurements relative to the presence of radioactive plutonium (that dissolves very badly in water) in the spanish mediterranean plancton, is thought by many scientists to have been produced a fifth pump, recovered and hidden by the United States to the governments of the democracy."

(Note that last paragraph may be politically tendentious, personally I don't believe it.)

link: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidente_de_Palomare s

Already been done

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, not a movie, but a Dr Who episode featuring giant mutant maggots. (OK, not snails, but close enough.)

Re:Already been done

[alienmole]

[...] featuring giant mutant maggots. (OK, not snails, but close enough.)

What, we all look alike to you, I suppose? Speciesist!

no, no, no...

[commodoresloat]

"Imagine, reading Beowulf by the light of a cluster of these snails..."

Much better.

Re:Why were they flying nuclear bombs around in 19

[Heir Of The Mess]

According to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_arrow/ there are 11 weapons known missing from the United States' arsenal. An enemy could just be a small group of people with a grudge. I guess it depends on the life of a nuclear weapon as to how much of a risk losing one is.

I knew the political answer to my original question, the cold war is pretty much common knowledge, but I'm more interested in how people currently rationalize the cold war in their heads. Also, given North Korea's recent activities it would be interesting to spark a little slashdot debate about nukes in the wild.

On the plus side...

[benplaut]

At least it's not sharks with friggin laser beams!

Ah the snail...

[chowdy]

Immune to radioactivity, yet incredibly susceptible to salt. Nature sure had fun making you.

Re:Ah the snail...

[ch0knuti]

Whew!! That means Tokyo is safe. (Last time I checked it was located on an Island)

Re:Ah the snail...

[Anonymous Coward]

It is called minmaxing...

Re:Holy --deleted--

[clickclickdrone]

>The hydrogen bombs fell near the fishing village
Such simple times when you could have a crash, lose 3 nukes then shrug and say 'ah well, never mind'.
These days every ounce of anything remotely useful for bomb making needs to be accounted for just in case some nasty terrorist gets their hands on it. What went wrong? I want the good old days back when you could casually leave weapons of mass destruction lying around near fishing villages ('if they trawl one up they'll probably just throw it back, right?) and not worry about it.

um

[amavida]

"...The radioactive creatures crawl up from underground, where authorities suspect deposits of uranium and plutonium may be located."

Ya think?

Ooops we dropped the nuke...

[Savage-Rabbit]

Thankfully, the safety systems of the bombs prevented a nuclear explosion, but the conventional explosions nevertheless distributed a large quantity of radioactive bomb guts over a wide area (thus the contamination problems mentioned).

When the Glomar Explorer salvaged the K-129 (or tried to, according to the 'official version' they only got parts of it) the CIA lost some of the ICBMs as they were hauling the hulk up from a depth of 5500m. One of the missiles apparently fell several thousand meters to the ocean bottom. Apparently the CIA crew aboard the Glomar were scared shitless as they watched it happen through the cameras attached to the salvage claw. I have always wondered what sort of chance there was of a nuclear detonation when it impacted the ocean bottom and what effect it would have had... a tsunami perhaps?

Re:Ooops we dropped the nuke...

[Ihlosi]

I have always wondered what sort of chance there was of a nuclear detonation when it impacted the ocean bottom

Pretty slim, I'd say. The fission reaction will only be started correctly if everything is working right inside the bomb, i.e. it is armed and detonated intentionally. Otherwise, you'll just wind up with an imprompty dirty bomb.

and what effect it would have had... a tsunami perhaps?

Not likely. The energy required to power this event dwarfs even the most powerful nuclear weapon. Maybe if you stick the bomb inside a fault line. But that's a big maybe.

Re:Ooops we dropped the nuke...

[technos]

I have always wondered what sort of chance there was of a nuclear detonation when it impacted the ocean bottom and what effect it would have had...

Almost no chance of nuclear explosion. There simply isn't enough fissionable in a bomb to go up unless you set it off in one specific way, requiring timers to set off a series of chain detonators at exactly the right time, sensors to tell the timers when that time is, an altimiter to determine the bomb is at target height and charged batteries to power the whole rig.

Sure, they'll blow up. But we're talking 300lbs of TNT boom, spraying radioactive all over the place.

But say a warhead did go off. We're talking something on the order of a megaton. Odds are there would have been a small surface swell, the wreckage at the bottom would have been blown to pieces, but I doubt that the ship at the surface would have even been damaged by the event. The US did undersea tests to figure out how to use nukes against boats and subs; The effective range wasn't all that great.

Re:Ooops we dropped the nuke...

[Detritus]

I have always wondered what sort of chance there was of a nuclear detonation when it impacted the ocean bottom and what effect it would have had... a tsunami perhaps?

No chance. Nuclear weapons have multiple safeguards against accidental detonation. Even if the impact detonated the high explosives in the warhead, it would not produce a significant nuclear yield. To produce the spherical shock wave needed to implode the plutonium core, a large number of initiators must all fire simultaneously, with very precise timing. In addition, a neutron generator must be activated at just the right time to kick-start the chain reaction.

It's about time

[Anonymous Coward]

1966 -> 2006.

40 years.

You'd think a mutant snail would have speciated and emerged FASTER even if they didn't have legs.

Or were they having a siesta?

No wonder it's snails

[cheros]

I mean, with a half life of several centuries, where's the rush? :-)

Re:Holy --deleted--

[torrija]

that means Spain is now a nuclear nation. Well, it has been for 40 years, but they didn't know.

3 lost hydrogen bombs ????

[yvesdandoy]

US ... stay away from us please !!!

Re:Holy --deleted--

[Jugalator]

Interesting incident...
They had to send 1 million tons of contaminated soil to the US too as the bombs had busted open. :-o

Wasn't this fortold about 30 years ago?

[ProppaT]

They tell us that we lost our tails,
Evolving up from little snails,
I say that's all just wind in sails!

Are we not men? We are DEVO!

(in your best George Costanza voice...)

[jpellino]

- What happened today?
- Radioactive snails crawled up from underground.
- That's it - right there. That's a game. See? It's perfect.
- Uh - huh...

wtf

[trifish]

I went to tag this article and when the tag dialog pulled down I saw that one of the suggested tags was "humor". Man, WTF?!

Rats

[m0RpHeus]

As long as these snails don't meet a "radio active rat" that knows some form of martial arts, the world's should be safe from the exhaustion of Pizza supplies and from beings that kill people when the flip out.

Re:Holy --deleted--

[MightyYar]

As the parent said, sigh. RTFA, they removed "hundreds of tons" of soil from the area, but it seem that wasn't enough. They've been monitoring the area ever since, and paying for people to get screened. They didn't say 'ah well, never mind'.

Re:Holy --deleted--

[clickclickdrone]

Was the clue not in the '4, funny' rating? Let it never be said you're troubled by a sense of humour.

Midair collision

[wiredog]

Between a B-52 on deterrence patrol and a fuel tanker during a mid-air refueling. Several bombs fell loose. Two hit the ground in Palomares, one went down in the Mediterranean.

Joke

[wolf369T]

Two men, cutting a bomb. The third one:
"Hey! What are you doing, it will explode!"
"Don't worry, if that happens, we have another one..."

Quickly!

[rlp]

We need a cruise missile and 1.5 tons of salt.

And what about...

[edusmoreira]

In Soviet Russia, snail eats YOU!!!

Re:Holy --deleted--

[CharlieG]

actually, they spent a LOT of time cleaning as best as they could, and spent a LONG time looking for the "3rd bomb" - it fell in the ocean. They found it - it's where the submersible "Alvin" first came to real fame

BTW the empty shell of the bomb is on display at the National Atomic Museaum in NM

Re:Holy --deleted--

[MightyYar]

This is Slashdot - they rate comments funny when someone makes fun of MS Windows or Jar-Jar Binks. People get modded funny for repeating the same stupid overlord and beowulf cluster jokes over and over again. Don't let a +2 funny moderation inflate your ego too much. It's still clear from your comment that you didn't RTFA. Jokes are much funnier when they contain bits of truth. Let it never be said you're troubled by a sense of modesty.

depends on your definition of lost

[way2trivial]

but here is an eye opener
http://www.cdi.org/Issues/NukeAccidents/accidents. htm

Cognitive dissonance

[Si]

the safety systems of the bombs

Whuh? Does that mean someone can hand over a bomb to his adversary (under duress, perhaps), but neglect to tell him the safety's on? The first guy then pulls his reserve bomb out of his ankle holster and *blam* blows away the bad guy!

Re:Why were they flying nuclear bombs around in 19

[bcmm]

They flew them all the time, taking shifts, just circling. Yes, it was really expensive. I guess they didn't want a situation where they were bombed or sabotaged on the ground, or even delayed a few minutes by having to take off.

Walk slightly faster

[istartedi]

Walk slightly faster!! They're coming this way!!!

Blaster Master

[rgaspinall]

Anyone ever play the old NES game Blaster Master? That's the first thing I thought of when I read this story.

Re:Holy --deleted--

[clickclickdrone]

Twas nothing to do with modesty or lack thereof, it was to point out that one would hope it was obvious it was humour as others had already realised.
I'll grant you humour works better with a bit of truth in it though.
If it makes you feel better, in future I'll read all references twice and twice again before attempting any humour based around them. That way I should be able to ensure further posts save you having to sigh too much.

They have their own theme song!

[davidwr]

Immature Radioactive Samurai Slugs theme song

                We're Immature Radioactive Samurai Slugs
                We love to thrash criminals and slice 'n' dice thugs!
                We're totally radical, gnarly dudes,
                Cowabunga homeboys with nothin' to lose ...

                Our arch-enemies want us iodized
                But they can't beat us 'cause we're merchandised!

                (Iodizer: "DESTROY THEM!!")

                Count off!

                      Picasso!
                      Warhol!
                      Rockwell!
                      Grandma Moses!

                So kick back, dweebs, it's the end of our rhyme,
                The show's gonna start and it's time to slime!

Beetle-mania

[hey!]

If god made humans in his image, does that mean he is also a weakling?

Nah, we just tell ourselves that to cover for the undeniable fact that we were scraped together at the end of the Creation project. And at that, using leftovers after the main project deliverable: implementing every imaginable variation on the the concept of "beetle".

And if that weren't enough to kick us in the anthropocentric nutes, it's clear we aren't even in the same league as termites, as measured by biomass or biodiversity. This caused some severe editing of the Creation story, particularly Genesis 1:25 - 1:31, which originally went something like this:

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, We have checked our deliverables and Creation is complete; so let there be Slack; and God saw the Slack, that it was good, and God separated the productive phase of the Project from the mindless consumption of excess Resources.

27 And the Slack was fruitful of all manner of Diversions of surplus Resources; so God said, Let Us celebrate; and the Celebration begat the Kegger, and the Kegger begat Beer, and Beer begat all manner of amusing indiscretions. And God saw that these where more or less Harmless.

28 Then God noticed that the Project had this left-over mud, and this He fashioned into a Man; but there was not enough fuel left over to fire the clay, so when Man was half-baked, He breathed upon Man and brought him to life.

29 Then Man opened his eyes, and looking on God asked, are You Me? And God said no. Then looking around, Man asked, Is all this for Me? And God said, No, you are only the half-baked leftovers, but if you study Creation perhaps you can become full-baked. And Man thought that this was Bad, and set out to Improve on Matters.

30 So Man said,let there be Self-Serving Sophistry, and let there be Willful Ignorance; and these were fruitful beyond all Measure, and so begat Religion, Conformism, Bigotry and every manner of Officious Narrow-Mindedness. And Man thought these were Good, and he wrote his version of Events down so that none would ever challenge Conformity without Fear.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good, except for the bits that came after the Beer which in retrospect looked somewhat Doubtful. And God, seeing that Slack had used up the Resources He needed to Fix the Problem, said, Let there be Muddling Through; Let there be Counting On Things Working Out in the End. And seeing that these were not Satisfactory and He was over budget anyway, God said, Let there be Hope. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Re:Beetle-mania

[AndersOSU]

That's gold.

May I ask if it is an original? if not where did it come from?

Re:Beetle-mania

[beckerist]

#29 sounds just like college...

Re:Beetle-mania

[HolyCrapSCOsux]

Has Douglas Adams-y ring to it. I like it quite alot.

Re:Beetle-mania

[Loko Draucarn]

Well, Slack indicates that it's probably derived from the teachings of the Church of the SubGenius. I have no idea about authorship, though.

Re:Beetle-mania

[hey!]

Well, I wrote it, which may not be the same thing as "original".

Re:Beetle-mania

[zobier]

Nice.

Creation from the point of view of a CTO.

Re:Beetle-mania

[Tablizer]

it's clear we aren't even in the same league as termites, as measured by biomass

With enough bacon cheeseburgers, we are getting pretty close.

Re:Beetle-mania

[yusing]

Oh, man. LOL. Once again, I REALLY MISS Firesign Theatre. The last 6 years would have been so much better with them explaining it.

So thanks for the stand-in.

Re:Beetle-mania

[fyngyrz]

If you found that amusing, you'll find this absolutely hilarious.

Thank god it was not in France EH

[ibbo]

Can you imagine anytrhing worse that radio active French Men.

Viva la Bombe

No. No such thing.

[pla]

where authorities suspect deposits of uranium and plutonium may be located

Plutonium has too short of a half-life to find natural "deposits"... If our solar system ever had any, it decayed long before the accretion disk ever coalesced into solid objects such as our planet.

Thus, if these snails show traces of plutonium, you can take it as 100% certain that this has nothing to do with auspicious mineral fomations, and that they have found the "missing" bombs' fuel.

I consider it more interesting that these snails would survive contact with plutonium - Not specifically because of its radioactivity, but because it counts as SOOOOOO toxic - IIRC, inhaling just a few nanograms of Pu dust guarantees death from cancer within a few years; a few micrograms just outright kills you directly.

This is funny?

[neural cooker]

Why is this marked as funny? It's pretty upsetting that there "may be dangerous levels of plutonium and uranium below ground, and a further clean up could be necessary".

Re:This is funny?

[SatanicPuppy]

Chances are no one will ever notice, except for the snails. A lot of the time the smartest thing to do with heavy metal pollution (and fissionables are about as heavy as it gets), is to leave it be. It takes a lot to stir them up off the bottom, so if the worst thing thats happening is that some bottom dwelling snails are picking up a bit of radioactive dust along with whatever sludge they usually eat, that's probably better than sending in an extraction team to try and hoover up miles of sediment, with the side effect that all that dust sitting on the bottom will be stirred up into areas where it could pose more of a threat to humans.

Plutonium 239 has a half life of about 24,000 years. It's an alpha emitter, which means it's not really dangerous unless ingested. I wouldn't mind scuba diving in that area, but I'd probably avoid the shellfish.

Re:Holy --deleted--

[MightyYar]

Yeah, sorry about the snarkyness. I re-read your original post and it actually WAS funny if looked at from the perspective of someone who had not read the article. It's also funny from your unintentional irony - you are basically replying to a thread that was talking about not reading the article with a comment that indicated that you had not read the article. That said, RTFA :)

Also, the mods are smoking crack... I might not have thought your comment funny, but "flamebait"??? Where does that come from?

uh oh!

[beckerist]

Looks like someone's already been affected!!!

They dropped one in the US accidentally too.

[Solr_Flare]

If you think that's bad, an electrical failure caused an unarmed atomic gravity bomb to be dropped in South Carolina back in 1958 from a B-47. When it fell, it landed on a house and all the TNT used to trigger the bomb detonated, causing a massive explosion that killed several people. Thankfully, there was little to no radiation due to the bomb itself not being "armed". Had it been armed, however, a large portion of South Carolina, Georgia, and North Carolina would now be uninhabitable.

Slugs mating

[hypoxide]

On the subject of pseudopods, check out this amazing and beautiful video of two slugs mating:

Slugs mating

No Longer City Killers

[camperdave]

t should also be noted that the thing that separates a 1-5 kiloton weapon from a 10+ megaton city killer is tritium which has a relatively short half-life of ~12 yrs thus after 40 yrs approx. 12.5% of the original tritium is around to create that megaton nuclear event. Thus these bombs are no longer "city-killers".

They are just suburb killers now?

Re:This is mere ONE of about 14 other nuke acciden

[Frumious Wombat]

That plutonium might not be "missing". I heard a talk from one of the chemists working on remediation at Hanford, who said that at Oak Ridge they'd discovered a significant portion of the "missing" plutonium hanging out as drifts of barely sub-critical plutonium dust in the ventilation system. Not 'explode' subcritical, mind you, but 'a little more accumulation, and we'll have a real radiation event' subcritical.

So, rather than having been repurposed as weapons, it could still be polluting the facilities where it was used.

Help is On Its Way

[Hoi Polloi]

Monster Island has released Godzilla and Rodan to save us!

Re:Holy --deleted--

[clickclickdrone]

Leans over, shakes hand ;-)

But what is there to "agree" on?

[Travoltus]

Why is there even a discussion on who would pay? That's exactly my point.

The US shouldn't be helping to pay anything - we should be paying, period. It's our mess, we need to own it.

Re:But what is there to "agree" on?

[Rotten168]

Well, we were kinda helping to defends Western Europe weren't we? I understand that mindless US bashing is in fashion here, but have some insight, will ya'?

Biiiiig Deal! In Iraq...

[DigitalRaptor]

In Iraq ~everything~ is radioactive, and will be pretty much forever thanks to our depleted uranium weapons that are everywhere.

And our soldiers aren't even protected, because their gas masks (which they aren't wearing) only filter to 1 micron, and the DU particles go below .1 micron (nano-particles).

And the amount of babies born deformed in Iraq is off the charts. Now they don't ask "Is it a boy or a girl?" they ask "Is it normal?". We joke about "Ten fingers and ten toes", when they just want one complete head, and only one.

Thanks Bush v1 and Bush v2. See Beyond Treason for more details, or search on the net. The evidence is overwhelming and staggering.

Ironically, the only ones that have used WMD's in Iraq since the gulf war is the United States.

Re:Biiiiig Deal! In Iraq...

[EQ]

Christ on a cruth, this has brought out all the DU trolls...

The facts, once again (from further up the thread):

DU isnt regular uranium, learn the science, not the hype. There has been a study done on the effects of DU ammunition. The UNEP report concluded in 2001 and found that the hazards are minimal. The most significant hazard seems to be that someone will pick up a round and keep it in close proximity of their person for an extended period of time.

The interesting thing about the DU 'debate' is that most of the people who have done scientific studies on the DU will say 'it's not particularly dangerous, but there are so many factors involved, we can't be 100% sure' while the anti-DU activists always seem to have absolute certainty about their data despite it being based on shoddy papers by undergrads in unralted fields (geology instead of physics, for instance).

In your particular case, please cast aside your political biases and prejudices (your post screams "tin-foil-hat anti-Bush", nearly to the degree that the Limbots are non-thinkinly pro-Bush), and look at the real science from credible sources. Fearmongering in the name of your politics is wrong, whether its conservative or liberal.

Bottom line is that DU is DEPLETED, and is about as radioactive as common dirt and as hazardous as any other heavy metal, like lead. You wouldn't want to make pipes or plates or silverware out of it, but other than that its simply not "radioactive" as you make it out to be.

Delicacies

[florescent_beige]

But it still advises local children not to work in fields at the explosion site, nor eat their snails -- which are a local delicacy.

How come whenever someone in a faraway land eats something odd, we call it a delicacy. I bet the people in the next town over from Palomares say "Those guys from Palomeres, they dig up SNAILS and EAT THEM. Hillbillies."

This Spanish-fishing-village-nuclear-bomb thing reminds me of an old film called Day of the Fishes. I wonder if they are connected.

Re:Holy --deleted--

[ptbarnett]

actually, they spent a LOT of time cleaning as best as they could, and spent a LONG time looking for the "3rd bomb" - it fell in the ocean. They found it - it's where the submersible "Alvin" first came to real fame

The device was first found by USN diver Carl Brashears, who was portrayed by Cuba Gooding, Jr. in the movie "Men of Honor". Regrettably, Brashears passed away earlier this year.

Alvin was used to recover the device, although they did use it to find it again after losing it during an attempt to lift the device.

Re:Holy --deleted--

[CharlieG]

You are correct - I should have phrased it.

The Navy found it. The search and recovery is where the submersible "Alvin" first came to real fame

Re:Biiiiig Deal! In Iraq...

[Beardo the Bearded]

The whole planet is covered in uranium, but that doesn't matter. You have to remember that people tend to panic when they hear "uranium". It's got nothing to do with science. Anything with uranium is a deadly poison that is killing our planet and making our kids into five-headed mutants with autism.

By the way, mutations are healthy for a species. It's why we're not all single-celled yeast polyps.

It doesn't take a country

[klossner]

You don't need the whole country. You can just use a former superpower's unemployed nuclear bomb engineers.

What part of

[porkchop_d_clown]

"depleted" don't you understand?

Re:What part of

[DigitalRaptor]

"Depleted Uranium is 40% less radioactive than natural uranium"....

Depleted != non-radioactive.

Depleted != safe. Particularly when in .1 micron particles that are blowing around in a dry desert, and inhaled by everyone. "clothing is typically sufficient to protect an individual from beta rays", but that isn't going to help when many, many particles are inside you, trapped in your lungs.

I think you need to think this through...

[porkchop_d_clown]

I consider it more interesting that these snails would survive contact with plutonium - Not specifically because of its radioactivity, but because it counts as SOOOOOO toxic - IIRC, inhaling just a few nanograms of Pu dust guarantees death from cancer within a few years; a few micrograms just outright kills you directly.

What's the lifespan of a snail?

Re:I think you need to think this through...

[pla]

What's the lifespan of a snail?

Five to fifteen years (with outliers, of course). So "long enough", if I infer your meaning correctly.

Bombs lost on the US east coast

[bombadillo]

I believe some bombs were also lost in the Swamps somewhere in the U.S. east cost? I think they are believed to have stayed intact on impact. Makes me wonder if we could see a similar situation in the U.S.?

But..

[Warg! The Orcs!!]

Can they be used as night lights?

Re:This is mere ONE of about 14 other nuke acciden

[AJWM]

The clean-up at Rocky Flats (one of the places they used to machine plutonium into the precise shapes needed for weapons, among other fun tasks) also found a lot of plutonium in the ventilation systems and filters. Not (AFAIK) in near-critical concentrations, but enough (spread over the miles of ducts) to make a bomb or two.

Then there were the rooms where e.g. a spill had occured and they just abandoned the room and bricked up the doors.

(NB, the ventilation systems mentioned above were the sealed ventilation systems for the gloveboxes, etc, totally separate from the normal "breathing air" ventilation systems.)

Re:Biiiiig Deal! In Iraq...

[HolyCrapSCOsux]

But the first yeast polyp that had 2 cells, I'm sure, was ostracized in his community and brandished across the Weekly World News (Yeast Ed.) Oh, God!, Can't you think of the spores!!!!!

But did you already imagine..

[wildekat]

a beowolf cluster of these?

Bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

Bad news for canned escargot soup makers

Woah! it might be near where it landed???

[k12linux]

From the Wikipedia article:

The search for the fourth bomb was carried out by means of a novel mathematical method, Bayesian search theory, which assigns probabilities to individual map grid squares, then updates these as the search progresses. The mathematical team, from Wagner Associates, was led by Dr John Craven. The method requires as input initial probabilities for the grid squares, and these probabilities made use of the fact that a local fisherman, Francisco Simó Orts, witnessed the bomb entering the water at a certain location.

Who would of thunk it. You must have to have an IQ of 160 to come up with the idea that the bomb has a higher chance of being close to where it was seen hitting the ocean. I bet people of only average IQ would have just set up a 100 square mile grid and started at the point furthest away from where the bomb landed.

I doubt there were scared at all

[georgeha]

if it even happened.

K-129 was sunk because someone (rogue KGB elements?) tried to launch an ICBM at Honolulu, and the internal safeguards they couldn't bypass detonated the conventional explosives used to trigger the nuclear reaction.

If KGB agents with a fair amount of insider knowledge of a Russian warhead couldn't trigger an explosion, why would a missile falling to the ocean floor detonate?

But, it probably didn't happen, the CIA probably recovered everything from the sub they wanted to. Check out Red Rogue if you want to learn more.

The Day the Snails Came Out

[banewood]

I suppose it's time for someone to remake the movie The Day the Fish Came Out (1967)

Who would want to?!?

[Sloppy]

It seems to me that if you could damage and capture one of these planes, you could lay your hands on 4 nuclear bombs. Something that would be a bit of a security risk.

Who'd want to? In 1966 the bad guys were the USSR

Am I the only person who remembers S.P.E.C.T.R.E.? They were pulling this kind of crap all the time!

Re:Holy --deleted--

[zerocool^]

When I was in college, I took 2 semesters of Middle East history (I have a history degree). My professor, Dr. William Ochsenwald, told us that for a while he lived in Beirut, doing research (among other places, I know he lived also in Istanbul and in Cairo for a while).

Anyway, he said that, back in the 60's, Beirut was a happening place. Supposedly, a good number of international spies had apartments in Beirut, as the city wasn't a place that encouraged question asking. He also said that you could walk down to the bazaar and buy almost anything, up to but not including nuclear weapons, along side the melons and chickens and fabric. Seriously. Beads and pottery, next booth over AK-47's.

~Wx

Re:Biiiiig Deal! In Iraq...

[geekoid]

We have never used a WMD in Iraq.

can you cite sources about the babies?
Depleted Uranium is not nuclear explosions.

Re:Biiiiig Deal! In Iraq...

[Anonymous Coward]

actually the US has used weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

The MOAB (Massive Ordnance Air Burst) is the most destructive non nuclear weapon ever used and is classed as a WMD, and was used by the US in Iraq

Re:Biiiiig Deal! In Iraq...

[DigitalRaptor]

First, Shock and Awe didn't cause mass destruction? That's what the brochure advertised. Thus the name.

Second, in my opinion (which doesn't matter to you but does to me), DU is a WMD.

As for the babies, watch the movie. I don't care enough about convincing someone on slashdot to go in search of the sources when I was convinced by the movie. I have no need to search further. If you are interested, watch the movie then look into it yourself. If not, have a nice day.

Snails?

[stile99]

I thought it was supposed to be hamsters!

WTF?

[LastExyle]

How the hell do you just lose three hydrogen bombs?

Re:WTF?

[Fishstick]

17 January 1966 A B-52 collided with an Air Force KC-135 jet tanker while refueling over the coast of Spain...

apparently, this thing happens a lot.

Re:WTF?

[LastExyle]

That's.... disturbing.

Re:WTF?

[Fishstick]

well, yah -- SAC flying around all the time with thermo-nuclear weapons, crashing into stuff or catching on fire: some scary shiat for sure.

Then again, having them all in silos ready to go with one guy with his thumb hovering over the button...

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm, RTFA, jackass

The discovery of radioactive snails at a site in southeastern Spain where three U.S. hydrogen bombs fell by accident 40 years ago may trigger a new joint U.S.-Spanish clean-up operation, officials said on Wednesday.

The hydrogen bombs fell near the fishing village of Palomares in 1966 after a mid-air collision between a bomber and a refuelling craft, in which seven of 11 crewmen died.

Hundreds of tons of soil were removed from the Palomares area and shipped to the United States after high explosive igniters on two bombs detonated on impact, spreading plutonium dust-bearing clouds across nearby fields.

oops

Re:WTF?

[cr0sh]

Then again, having them all in silos ready to go with one guy with his thumb hovering over the button...

I hope you're joking here, and that you really know how missle silos and operations to launch actually occur.

FWIW, there isn't a "single man in a silo" like you are positing, nor is there just a button to launch. In American silos, there are two men in the silo for launch control. Upon orders to launch, they open a special locker, pull out some codes, and verify that the code in the launch order matches that in the locker. These codes are rotated on a regular basis, and the code-to-launch comes from an equally rotated (kinda like a one-time-pad of codes) set of codes in the "nuclear football" the President carries around. If both codes match, each man pulls out a key from the locker/packet. Both of these men have guns (IIRC) - in case one doesn't want to launch, the other can threaten to shoot him. They must both insert the key into their stations (which are far enough apart so that one man can't insert and turn both keys) and turn them at the "exact same time" (I am sure there is some leeway here, on the order of a second or so, just for practical reasons). When both are inserted and turned, the final launch sequence can begin (yes, there is a button here for this purpose - but it requires all the other steps to occur before it will work).

This is the gist of it - I have vastly simplified it, and possible gotten a few details wrong. Note that this scenario doesn't play out on boomers (nuclear missle subs), IIRC, but the codes must match all the same. Also, I don't think the USSR used this kind of system either, but they did have something similar (even so, from what I have read, it is amazing they never accidentally launched).

Also of note, when simulations are run, they are run in such a way that the men in the silo have no idea that what they are doing is for real or a test. They must run through the steps all the same (they are alerted at the end - but there is a tense time period where they don't know if WW3 is starting or not). I am sure if it is a test, and one or both fail to launch, they are likely booted out of the position, after debriefing (I would imagine even if they do "press the button" and pass the test, they still get debriefed and/or psych counseling), to be replaced with some "fresh recruits". Ultimately, they want people in there who will launch without question or remorse. The scary thing is, I doubt that people like this are difficult to find. It is probably only the fact of all the other security precautions that WW3 didn't start as an accident (and yes, I know of the few times we came close due to one reason or another).

Re:WTF?

[iggymanz]

Your words should really assure and calm the poster to whom you were replying, except I have something to point out that will make him and all other slashdot readers shit their collective britches and cry out for mommy. The guy with the football is named GW Bush.

Re:WTF?

[Fishstick]

I hope you're joking here, and that you really know how missle silos and operations to launch actually occur.

yah, I was and I do -- you wasted quite a bit of time on a long post there ;-p

Oblig....

[charlesnw]

Snakes on a radiolagical earth!

Re:Why were they flying nuclear bombs around in 19

[orielbean]

It was more for the preemptive strike capability and in case the silos were shut down. If you've seen Dr. Strangelove, that is the mission of the plane - to strike a Soviet silo when the crazy general orders the planes out. Our nuke subs and bombers were supposed to give us the edge over MAD.

The poll is irreversibly flawed

[Mariner28]

A telephone poll to determine whether man evolved or was created by God? I think the 808 people polled were too stupid to get on a Do-Not-Call list, therefore their opinions were worthless! :-P

I don't think that's right.

[porkchop_d_clown]

Or, rather, it depends on the species:

The lifespan of snails varies from species to species. In the wild, Achatinidae snails live around 5 to 7 years and Helix snails live about 2 to 3 years. Aquatic Apple Snails live only a year or so. Most deaths are due to predators or parasites. On occasions, snails have lived beyond this lifespan, up to 30 years or more.

So, it's not clear to me most snails live long enough to get cancer.

Actually, thinking about it, snails are invertebrates so they may not face the same risk mammals do at all. See, what makes plutonium so toxic isn't the radiation, exactly, it's that plutonium is a radioactive heavy metal. The human body tends to try to "trap" heavy metals in the bones instead of excreting it, which means those nanograms get to spend years irradiating your bone marrow.

Snails don't have bones, and probably have a different metabolic path for handling heavy metals, so the may not absorb it at all. Alternately, I suppose the heavy metals could end up in their shells - I really don't know.

Re:I don't think that's right.

[porcupine8]

So, it's not clear to me most snails live long enough to get cancer.

I've heard a few other people say things about animals "not living long enough to get cancer." I'd like to point out that domestic rats only live 1.5-3 years, but are susceptible to cancer. Tumors in general are actually very very common (particularly mammary or pituitary, both have incidence rates of over 60% in unspayed females), though most aren't malignant. But malignant tumors in rats less than 2 years old certainly do happen, and not rarely.

That said, I don't know if radiation exposure would work fast enough to cause cancer in two years - but many small animals also have a much faster metabolism than humans, which could make a big difference.

You didn't even read the article you linked to

[porkchop_d_clown]

did you? Natural uranium is not very radioactive. Which is why we have to "enrich" it to make bombs and fuel! Depleted uranium is about as radioactive as the air in your basement.

From the same article you linked to:

The problem arises not from the radioactive characteristics of the depleted metal but its chemical properties. When DU-tipped armament explodes the uranium can be rendered as very fine dust, easily ingested or breathed in, especially by children playing in burned-out wrecks. Uranium is chemically toxic, but not in low concentrations.

The toxicity from DU dust is because it's a heavy metal, like lead, and can cause neurological problems, like lead. You don't need to spew scary anti-science nonsense to prove that DU dust is an environmental hazard.

Yes, BUT...

[porcupine8]

You're right, evolution is not about becoming "perfect." But that's not why saving imperfect babies could put us at a disadvantage when it comes to a situation like nuclear holocaust.

Let's say humans decide to do their damnedest to save every baby born into this radiation-filled world. Lots of these babies are infertile, lots have other problems that will lead them to never having babies of their own. Let's say I have a baby with such problems. Because I'm determined to save that baby, I will probably not have another baby again for a while (maybe a couple of years) while I work to keep this one alive. I may not have ANY more babies because I'm so determined to help this one! And this one baby that I've saved won't have any more babies. If the entire species does this, eventually it will lead to population decline because we'd be focusing our resources and time on activities that won't lead, ultimately, to proliferation. We put the good of each individual baby over the good of our species as a whole.

Some other species - rats, let's say - has less concern about individual babies. A mother rat gives birth to a litter of six, and can tell that half of them have something wrong? She eats those three so that she can nurse the others. If they're all no good? They'll all be eaten so she can start over with a fresh litter. Or if it's not immediately obvious, they'll die fairly quickly because she can't use medical technology to save them. Either way, she has another litter sooner rather than later.

Aside from the obvious fact that rats' gestation and child-rearing times are so much less than humans, a higher percentage of rats that make it to adulthood will actually be capable of having more babies, because the "imperfect" rats will die quickly and free up resources for potential healthy rats.

So overall, the rat population will increase (or at least decrease less quickly) while the human population, past the first generation, will be vulnerable to a steep dropoff. You do have a point about genetic variation - but a human that can't have babies is EXACTLY equivalent to a dead human in the evolutionary sense - except that it takes up resources that a dead human wouldn't.

Re:Yes, BUT...

[ScrewMaster]

Well, I discussed the matter with my girlfriend, and she said that if ever we ever do get married and have kids, she is flatly not going to eat the defective ones, resources be damned, and if that's my attitude I can just eat kids for dinner while she goes out with her friends.

Other than that, I pretty much agree with you.

Re:Why were they flying nuclear bombs around in 19

[JhohannaVH]

Um, did you not take American History in class? Or have access to the History Channel? Holy Cow. And good fucking luck trying to catch a B52 flying at 68,000 feet that never sets down.

Google Chrome Dome.

You have no idea

[Kadin2048]

That's not the only time something like that occured. There are actually some scarier "missing weapon" incidents, and a not-insiginifiant number of nuclear weapons are lying around the world's oceans in various places as a result.

My personal favorite, just because it sounds like it came right out of Goldfinger:

March 10, 1956, Over the Mediterranean Sea

A B-47 bomber carrying two nuclear weapon cores in their carrying cases disappeared over the Mediterranean Sea. The aircraft, on a nonstop flight from MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa, Florida, to an undisclosed overseas airbase, was lost with its crew. After takeoff the B-47 was scheduled for two in-flight-refuelings before reaching its final destination. The first refueling was successfully completed, but the aircraft never made contact with the second refueling tanker over the Mediterranean Sea. Despite an extensive search, no trace of the aircraft, the nuclear weapon cores, or crew, were ever found.

There are nuclear warheads believed to be in the ocean off the cost of Georgia, another in Puget Sound (unarmed), one somewhere on land near Goldsboro, NC, and that's just the beginning of the list. There are supposedly about 50 unaccounted "irretrievable" weapons scattered around the world, and those don't count Soviet ones that they may not have told anyone about.

Interesting reading here:
http://www.cdi.org/Issues/NukeAccidents/accidents. htm
http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa081600 a.htm

Wait hold up!

[tehlinux]

Why the fuck did they use uranium and plutonium in a HYDROGEN bomb?

Re:Wait hold up!

[Fishstick]

Because you need a fission bomb to trigger the fusion reaction

Hydrogen bombs work by utilizing the Teller-Ulam design, in which a fission bomb is detonated in a specially manufactured compartment adjacent to a fusion fuel.

These are known as hydrogen bombs, H-bombs, thermonuclear bombs, or fusion bombs.

Or chop down a cherry tree and become prez

[EmbeddedJanitor]

Now how did that work?

Hold up, that's different

[Travoltus]

We were looking for WMD's, dude.

No, wait, we were looking for people with Al Qaeda connections.

Er, ok, that was disproven... ok we're democratizing them! They owe us!

(right wing parody off)

Homer, is that you?

[Anonymous Coward]

"that evil nucular stuff"

I see you went to the Homer Simpson and George W. Bush school of phonetic speaking.

Or was that a bit of subtle humor that I missed?

Nuclear folks... nuclear.

Re:Homer, is that you?

[fyngyrz]

Or was that a bit of subtle humor that I missed?

There is nothing funny about illiteracy in one's native language. It is nothing less than tragic, not to mention a stinging, dual condemnation of the school systems and parenting.

Re:Homer, is that you?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the spelling, context and italics made it pretty obviously a joke. In discussing the irrational fear of nuclear tech, refering to it as "the evil nucular stuff" is plain sarcasm.

Mod parent Informative!

[Anonymous Coward]

The're frickin lasers! C'mon.

human evolution

[falconwolf]

a human that can't have babies is EXACTLY equivalent to a dead human in the evolutionary sense - except that it takes up resources that a dead human wouldn't.

Except that that infertile human may have a positive affect on the following generation. That human may for instance take care of another's baby when the parents aren't able to take care of it or gives them more tyme to procreate again.

Falcon

Re:human evolution

[toddhunter]

Indeed. For example they might develop a cure for infertile humans.

sickle cell anemia

[falconwolf]

if you magically killed everyone who has it this second, there would still be millions of carriers with a single bad copy of the gene who don't develop the disease.

And that leaves out the fact that those with sickle cell anemia have the advantage that they are resistant to malaria. So while a plague of malaria could wipe out a lot of people those with sickle cell anemia will survive the plague.

Falcon

Re:Biiiiig Deal! In Iraq...

[EQ]

You are as bad as the Fundamentalists - "I have no need to search further". OK then I assume you can accept "Its in the Bible, Case Closed" as an acceptable argument against Evolution?

If you can be convinced by a propaganda movie to ignore the UN studies and the basic physics involved, then you are well and truly stupid.

DU is NOT a WMD - you are an idiot to continue to hold such an unfounded opinionin the face of the facts.

Re:Why were they flying nuclear bombs around in 19

[Heir Of The Mess]

Interesting point. In this country American history isn't covered at all, and so few people have cable tv you'd be pressed to find someone who even knows what the "History Channel" is. I've seen the Discovery channel, but only in hotels when travelling overseas. So basically we learn about the Cold War from James Bond movies. Definately a problem there.

It does seem an interesting thing though, having plane loads of nuclear bombs flying around, just in case you need to quickly wipe out another country. It's just not the sort of thing we plan for these days when purchasing equipment.

Dude meets Dnailzilla

[cachimaster]

Dude: Hi whats up?...What's that in the horizon...oh noes is Snailzilla!!!!
*Snailzilla advances*
Dude: It is coming!! man, its really slow, but is coming...
*Snailzilla advances*
Dude: I wonder whats on TV. ...
Dude: zzzzzz... ...
Dude: zzzzzz... Oh Shit!! I totally forgot about Snailzilla!....ARGGGHG!!! GULP!
*Snailzilla eats Dude*
*Snailzilla advances*

Old joke about snail

[FishinDave]

A snail crawled into a Porsche dealership and bought a red 911. He asked the dealer to paint a big white "S" on each door. When the dealer asked why, the snail replied,

"So I can hear people say, 'Look at that S car go!'"

Ooo. Very good point.

[porkchop_d_clown]

And I even knew that. (That rats got tumors).

Good point.

Re:Biiiiig Deal! In Iraq...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's radioactivity that's the danger with depleted uranium, it's the toxicity, and the fact that firing depleted uranium shells results in lots of sub-micron DU dust in the envronment. The sad thing is that this is the result of the same country that tried to ban lead shot because hunters that missed their targets were dropping a few ounces of lead into lakes. Instead, we're coating Iraq with a much more toxic substance in particle sizes too small to easily filter.

Omnivores?

[phorm]

We're omnivores at the top of the food chain, so irradiation of plant and animal life can work it's way up to us more easily, either by subjecting us to contaminated food, or to starvation if food sources die out

Somehow this doesn't track. Yes, due to the large variance of things we eat it's supposedly more possible for us to come into contact with one that is dangerous, but by the same token we don't have a primary food source that - if it were to die or be contaminated - we would die without. If you look at many other animals that tend to "specialize" on certain diets, having one of their primary prey/vegetables is going to be a lot more devstating. For example, in N. America the recent E-coli outbreaks have put a stop on many places carrying spinach, inconvenient for me a I like spinach, but that just means I'm eating more of regular salad and/or other vegetables.

So yeah, we might find that if something near the bottom gets 'infected' it can work its way up to us, but we aren't likely to depend as much on that particular something, and by then one assume the danger would be detected or diluted. If the rabbits in the hills become mostly infected, the wolves are more likely to suffer heavy side-effects.