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If Not America, Then Where?
Wellington Grey asks: "Often during our heated political discussions on slashdot, several people will mention their desire to leave the country. As an American living in England, which sees much the same problems as the US, I often wonder where these Americans would go. So, I pose two questions for the restless: 1) Where would you live, if not in America and 2) What's stopping you from going?"
The Netherlands. The fact that I couldn't become a citizen and I can't speak the language stops me. Oh yeah, plus I like America still. :-)
Yay, I have a sig.
I always kinda liked the idea that I get to live in the future just by staying alive.
Infuriate left and right
Warm beach with girls. Money.
This thread is now closed. Please submit next Slashdot story.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
But I'm in America by choice, and will be for a loooooong time. I friggin' love it here, warts and all. Lived in Latin America, raised in Canada, and there's no place I'd rather be.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
It's obviously best to simply give up and leave, rather than actually stand up and do something about changing your country.
Van Allen Radiation Belt
Not because of this pipe dream bullshit of leaving the US because it "sucks", but because I can retire 20 years earlier than I could if I stayed in the US. I've even bought land. Better than my $400K house in the city now at 1/100th of the cost.
In almost every case it comes down to visas and border controls that stop humans freely moving around their planet. On the surface it looks like a good idea, but it's absolutely ridiculous that a human shouldn't be able to freely roam the public spaces of their own planet!
:)
I'd rather go live out in the nowhereness of Canada or Australia or something and get out of the way, but there's no hope for any of that in the near future as countries have lots of quirky requirements, laws, and rules for gaining entry
Well, not really, but by the time I was 25 I have had tech jobs in both Japan and Germany(I'm currently in the fatherland). While there certainly are some good aspects to living abroad, being away from home can kind of suck. My mom was hit by a car recently, she is ok but the feeling that you are so far away never helps the situation.
My advice to Americans is to learn another language and to not rule anything out. Though I would suggest Asia, because that seems to be where the future is headed. I plan on going back to the states for a few years to get my PhD then heading out somewhere in Asia(probably not Japan because although they have had some nice growth recently, the sun is setting. Plus white fanboys give foreigners a bad name there).
Monstar L
I love America, and don't want to leave; however, I see multiple reasons why I may be 'forced' to leave: the impact of our massive debt on the future economy, the shift to a stronger executive branch (and what this might yield), and the impact of a swelling unsupported lower/debtor class. If in a situation where I felt I had no other options, I'd move to Vienna, Austria. Every time I've been there, I've been enthralled by the people, the cleanliness, the relatively hands-off government (at least compared to some European and particularly Scandinavian countries), the wealth of job opportunities, the high proportion of English speakers, and the area's focus on health and fitness. It has always seemed like a home away from home.
Crack - Free with every butt and set of boobs
Living just to the north of much of the United States, I often offer Stateside friends crash space in my basement in the event that things go completely pear-shaped where they live. Sure, we could be violently annexed in a depressingly short amount of time (and our supplies of uranium, oil, fresh water and lumber might make us a delectable target), but it's a relatively short trip. Besides, beyond Canadian Bacon, there hasn't really been any real effort to add us to the Axis of Evil.
If it were not for the money, language, and responsibility issues, I'd move to a Scandanavian country in a heartbeat.
As it is, I believe that America is exporting its culture at an incredible rate, and the best way to stop what I see as an unbelievably bad world situation is by attempting to modify it from within the States. I'm not doing a great job, but just being here and dissenting my little piece has more of an impact than living outside the country and bitching to other people that aren't there about how much my country sucks.
I lived overseas, and found that there were a few things true about me personally - 1) wherever I went, I was the same person. Ergo, I was pissed off and unhappy because that's what I started out as. I've attempted to change that. 2) wherever I went, I was followed by the influence of the things I had left the country to avoid, one way or another. Thus I am back here to attempt to modify the things about both me and the world around me that irked me so much when I was not living in the States. I don't know if I'll manage to change the world enough to make any sort of difference should I leave again, but by the time I can afford to leave again for any extended period of time, I will be able to say that I'm at least trying to alleviate certain negative influential factors that result from our social structure.
My little site.
To immigrate to canada you must speak french, eat poutine and KD, and watch HNIC. It snows all year long and sorry we're full!
----
Go canucks, habs, and sens!
* a country where the media and the politicians don't do their best to induce fear and unrest from relatively minor threats (lightning, I believe is still a bigger threat to the average american, than terrorism)
* a country where the most popular news feeds are actually independent
* a country that wouldn't embarras me with a completely selfish and brutally violent foreign policy
Amsterdam and you know damn well why.
We do everything America does, only we do a worse job, less efficiently, and with none of the individual rights in our Constitution* that you enjoy in the United States which allow the courts to pull the executive and congress back into line every now and then.** Although we have no president or equivalent, our parliament is a virtual dictatorship at present and crossing the floor on the basis of principle is almost entirely unheard of and considered to be little better than treason. We lack media diversity, and general awareness of political and human rights issues is virtually non-existent in the wider populace even by US standards.
In addition we are extremely poorly placed in relation to the most likely theatre of any future world war, and we have large quantities of uranium and natural gas which makes us an important strategic target.
* disclaimer, before someone who knows about Australian law attacks - we arguably have freedom of religion and a right to vote, and a limited right to freedom of 'political' speech, but all can be infringed on by federal laws with a legitimate other purpose
** yeah yeah, I know how politicised the courts are, but every now and then you DO get a decision like Hamdan in which the Supreme Court clobbers the executive for overstepping the line
Read Pynchon.
I moved to Austria.
I'll admit that the problems in the US weren't the only reason but they were a big motivating factor.
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Mars.
it will take your breath away.
(No, seriously, that's the reason why NOT to go)
If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
"our parliament is a virtual dictatorship"
If by "dictatorship" you mean elected body, then yes.
"crossing the floor on the basis of principle is almost entirely unheard of and considered to be little better than treason"
The last time a member of the ruling Coalition -- and not the opposition parties, which vote against Coalition legislation frequently -- crossed the floor was about a year ago, but internal dissent scuppered some immigration laws this year. Anyway, since when was the measure of a democracy the lack of discipline of the ruling party? What's undemocratic about an elected ruling party voting for its own legislation? On the contrary, if, after being elected with a majority in both houses, the government were unable to make new laws, that would be a failure of democracy.
"with none of the individual rights in our Constitution"
Our constitution may suck, but Australia is still a free country. Freedom House rated us a 1 1, meaning we have an excellent record on both civil liberties and political rights.
Come to Australia. Our GDP per capita is higher than the major European countries', and our Human Development Index is third in the world -- behind only Iceland and Norway.
Costa Rica. They don't hate Americans. You can drink the water (if you were wondering).Great weather. No army. Easy immigration. Democracy. Universal health care. I'm leaving because I was arrested and held in jail for 2 days for not having my dogs licensed in a town they didn't live in. Yes, you read that right. I had already been convicted of not having my dogs licensed, with no notice even of any infraction, much less a trial. Had no right to appear before a judge, or even call a lawyer. That's for people who haven't already been convicted. Welcome to the law for and by bored small town cops. Northern Wisconsin, for any who were wondering.
Finland: Land of metal, IRC, and hot chicks speaking a really strange language
Registered Linux user #421033
Because I don't want a bunch of Americans following me, and I'm leaving just a soon as I tidy up a few personal things. Adios Amigos. But hey, you could always try Australia.
Australian running a company that does C# / C++ / Java / SQL / Python / Mathematica
If you are going to mess up your own country, and then leave, what makes you think we want you to come to ours and mess it up to.
This applies to pretty much anyone who
a) Wants to come here and change things to make here more like the place they just left.
b) Wants to come here and moan about why it's not like home.
c) Wants to come here and try to create a little bit of home, only talk to / socialise with / work with expats from their old country.
And especially
d) Wants to tell us that the way we live is ungodly and imoral, and change our laws to the way they think.
If you actually like the way we live, and you want to come here, learn our languages, go to our schools, live our lifestyles, and in short become one of us, then we'll pick you up at the airport.
Have a nice day all y'all.
D
http://davesboat.blogspot.com/
News for Nerds != Nerdy News
Politics can be, and should be, news for nerds.
What's your GCNSEQNO?
Really though, even faking mentally challenged would be a total drain on my life.
Storm
That's easy,
Europe! I know it's not a country, but if you actually want to live abroad (forever, or for a few years to get a taste of a different lifestyle), then the obvious answer is somewhere in Europe.
Why? Because after a couple of years (it varies country to country), you can grab a passport and become an instant protected member of the EU. Now you don't have a choice of one country, but 25, (27 in a few years, and hopefully 28 with Turkey in a few more years).
And you get a choice of countries like Sweden or Denmark (consistently ranked as the most well educated, crime free, peaceful utopias on the planet), liberal countries like Germany or Amsterdam (there is no city in the WORLD like Berlin, it is just the most alive, party party, drug liberal place on Earth, no question), economic tigers like Ireland or the newer Eastern european countries (where jobs are easy to come by and the cost of living is low), or just places where you could live off a few grand and take it easy, like Portugal or Greece.
25 countries, most of them not requiring a second language (For sure, if you move to Scandinavia it'll be you that has the lower standard of English, I moved here 3 years ago and it's embarrassing to have an inferior grasp of my mother-tongue than do the locals). In some countries like Sweden, if you have a girlfriend here you can pick up a passport in 3 years.
And of course, Countries that are not in the EU (such as Switzerland or Norway or Iceland), will still be open to you because of the Schengen agreement.
Good luck! And wherever you decide to move to, just DO IT. It doesn't mean that you never have to go home, it doesn't mean you are running away from America's problems (you can retain your American citizenship and vote from abroad), it just means at a minimum that you are exploring how life in a much more liberal society would be like, and if many more people in the USA decided to live abroad in Europe for a few years of their youth, I very much doubt the country would be experiencing the problems it is having at the moment.
1) Where would you live, if not in America and 2) What's stopping you from going?
Easy. 1) New Zealand, 2) Money (or the lack thereof).
If you think hard, probably two things are keeping people to go where they think (or know) their lives would be better (for them, since this is as much subjective as objective):
- people: family, friends, neighbors, you name it, people can become very attached to others,
- financial resources: if you have to work 10-16 hours a day for living, paying mortages, etc., schooling your kids, its not that easy to just stand up and leave.
Until the average level of living throughout the planet won't reach a certain level, most people will just be stuck to places, all their lives long, give or take a few travels.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
I support everyones right to emigrate if they feel like they need to. Emigrés have also often been the deciding factor in overthrowing an oppressive government, in fact I'd say it's almost a prerequisite to have a strong expat community if you need to overthrow the government. These people need their freedom and ability to work, in order to help raise awareness about what is wrong with the way things are being run, and make changes. Someone being in jail for political reasons cannot really do much to change anything.
Nyhetsankaret.com -- det bÃsta av Sveriges Nyhetssido
As a Scandinavian who just visit USA occationally I guess I can tell why I hesitate to move there... From the European horizon USA looks really cool. You have the greatest companies, the greatest sports champs (except in soccer), you are the center of entertainment, modern culture and research. You have... so very much.
However, when in USA I feel that I am so far away from everything. Manhattan is the exception. In LA I have an hour in a car to anything. In Las Vegas it takes a day to get anywhere else.
So even if I am closer to many things when in USA, there are fewer things that I am really close to (walking distance). If it takes 5h or more to get there by car, the Atlantic ocean doesnt make a huge difference anyway.
It's been sixty years since we stopped invading foreign countries. Professional help needed.
1) Switzerland. It's clean, tidy, cosmopolitan, safe, has low taxes, great restaurants, beautiful countryside, a reasonabl educated population, a strong economy, 20% foreigners so fairly limited xenophobia in the parts that matter compared to many other European countries, isn't part of the EU, and is a few hours from Paris, Milan, Venice, Munich and other cool spots.
2) What's keeping me from moving there? Well, nothing--I already did. I've lived on 3 continents, and it's by far the nicest country I've been to (barring Canada, but brrrr.)
I moved for personal reasons (girlfriend), but I can see 100% where people frustrated with the way the US is moving are coming from. I have two remaining, ageing family members in the US whom I visit whenever possible, and every time I come here I notice what seems like a general decline in civility and reason. From the whiny nasal-voiced stewardesses on every US air carrier (and the $5 drinks charge on international flights--WTF?!?) to the screechy populist media, intrusive laws and lowbrow politics, it all gets a bit tiresome.
I often catch myself feeling guilty about having such an arrogant attitude, but to be honest I'd rather enjoy the good bits from afar whenever I can, for at least as long as the US is "staying the course."
Friends of mine have also moved to Ireland, Japan, Australia and various other countries--they all like wherever it is they moved. The most important part is doing your research and, if possible, spending some time there--I know plenty of expats who are miserable because they just didn't check their new home country out before going.
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
I mean like, how cool is a country that made their language and alphabet using all those math symbols!!!
Disclaimer: not actually American, though I did live there from 1981 until 1988.
Not always the easiest place to live, but rewarding a lot of the time: Southern Africa. And I am not referring to "We'd like to be State 51 please, if only you'll bring back the 1980s" South Africa, I am referring to southern sub-saharan Africa.
Whether you're here on a volunteer basis or you have a 'proper job' (like myself), there is a definite need for clued-up tech people to share their knowledge, and to help pull this place out of its rut. No need to be a charity: I get a salary and everything...
And do your research: not all sub-saharan countries are corruption-plagued dictatorships. Well, no more than the US anyway ...
Stay away! Don't come to New Zealand! It sucks! The people are mean! The education system is awful! Health care is a joke! The environment is rubbish! The pay is crap! The quality of living is substandard! Everyone hates us, and we're at war with the world! Stay away! *please*...:-)
I came to Barcelona because I met a Catalan woman who was studying in the US. That was in 2000. As with anywhere, there are pros and cons. I've also picked up some different perspectives on the US living outside of it. To sum up:
.79 euro cents.
living in Barcelona: pros
1. the flow of time is different, slower somehow. people have more time outside of work and seem to make spending it with each other a priority. It's not that the work hours are so different, it's more of a cultural thing- work is usually not the center of one's life, or something they use to define themselves. for instance, you can get to know someone over months and never find out what they do (this may be related to con #1, see below.) most people get a month of vacation each year, plus innumerable long (3 and 4 day weekends). there's a big emphasis on getting together for long, tasty meals and laughing and drinking good wine. we lived in new york for 6 months a few years ago (ending a 1-year stay 6 months early) and I felt like I was running all the time, never had time to be with my family.
2. it's easier to be middle class. healthcare is free, education is cheap, public transit is cheap and excellent (the latter is for barcelona, not necessarily the rest of the country.) we have two little kids (9mos and 5yrs) and no car and it's not an issue. on a salary of us$60k we live well, even with the dollar worth
3. the level of education and knowledge about the world of the average person on the street is pretty high, compared to the US. people have travelled, speak at least two languages (spanish and catalan and usually bad english, and french). the public schools start earlier here (3 yrs old) and are a lot more rigorous than the public schools I went to in washington DC.
3. you are close to a wide range of different cultures, should you like exploring. if you travel the same distance from say, new york to cleveland, you can be in much of north africa, most of western europe, a bunch of eastern europe. turkey is a stone's throw away. even within spain there are seven or so regional languages and cultures that are strikingly different. western europe is slowly mixing and homogenizing due to the european union effort, but it still seems like an adventure every time I get on a train or a plane. maybe this is just because I'm not from here.
cons:
1. the work opportunities and work culture suck. education being cheap or free, you have a lot of really well educated people and not enough jobs requiring their skills. thus employers are used to paying bad salaries, paying late, not treating employees too well, etc. maybe this is a holdover from the years of dictatorship that only ended in the 70s. higher-ups generally fuck with those under them and it's not pleasant. getting a job often has more to do with whom you know or are related to, rather than what you can do (this is a cliche, but it is _really_ true here.) these negatives may be changing slowly, I'm not sure. I came on with a US company and started telecommuting about a year ago and now work for spanish firms only as a consultant, which gives me a certain amount of freedom and leverage.
2. speaking spanish isn't really enough, to really integrate you have to learn some level of catalan (the regional language in which government and local business is conducted), which is sort of like learning portuguese- similar, but still another language (not a dialect). even if it were only spanish one had to learn, it's was a part-time job for a me for a few years to get good at a language. classes, etc. Some people learn can languages faster of course.
on living outside of the US:
one thing you realize is that the US is a good place for work and earning money (if you're educated and posess certain skillsets - if you aren't, it looks like wal-mart, doesn't it?) and that the fact that you can often be evaluated for what you are able to do, rather than your connections, is damn nice.
you also see a lot of things in press that
I recommend France to anyone looking to make the plunge. It's what I did, and you really can't beat it. Good food, beautiful women, nice people.
I think that the primary differences between France and the U.S. is that the citizens actively participate in their government. There are some things I'm not entirely happy about. Police here can ask you for ID on the streets (though it's never happened to me), and speech is limited in certain ways (hate speech is not protected speech).
In spite of this, though, there isn't the feeling of distrust that exists in the U.S. with regards to the government. Something that impressed me was back during the vote for the European constitution, a book that explained the version of the constitution being voted on jumped to number one on the bestseller list during the weeks/months preceding the vote. It made me proud to be living here.
For the French, the government is THEM, and everyone gets up and shouts when there is something they don't like, You may hear jokes about the French striking, because there is often some group in the news, whether it be the postal service, trains, air traffic controllers, on strike, but I think it's a healthy sign that not only are people working for change, but there's someone on the other side listening. Most strikes are resolved in less than a week, and life goes back to normal.
For Americans looking to make the plunge, you don't need to know any French to get started, if you want to work either in Paris, or in southern France near Nice (Sophia Antipolis is a huge office/science/tech park 20 minutes outside of Nice), but it's good manners to try. When I arrived, I didn't speak a word of French, and have since learned it well enough that I work entirely in French.
Also to note, you normally have to find a French company willing to hire you before you come if you are not a student. However, it's not too hard to find American or International companies who will hire you in the U.S. (pay you in dollars) to work in France.
If you want to date the locals, you will have to learn French. However, as long as your accent isn't too horrific, it's considered cute, and just as American women go gaga when French men say "enchanté" (nice to meet you, or literally enchanted), French women seem to go gaga over the phrase "my pleasure" when used to demur after having done something nice.
Absolutely. Great weather year round, good people, good activity, and if you don't like the culture of a place, move 5-10 miles and it's completely different. Plus some of the most scenic spots on the planet. Watching a sunrise in owens valley is quite possibly one of the best ways to begin a lazy morning.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
Seriously, stay out. New Zealand doesn't need Americans. You wouldn't fit in! Believe me, the best place for Americans is America. Nowhere else is as suitable for you so just stay put.
(for the humour impared *JOKE*!)
"I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
First of all I'm a dual US-EU citizen and lack much nationalism for any country.
Honestly, I don't see any country which is better than the US for an intelligent, sometimes driven individual in terms of opportunities. While there has been some erosion of personal freedoms and various systems are fucked (patent system, copyright, social security, etc.) I keep reading similar problems in other countries. England is going big brother on its people, France and Germany has a screwed over society in term of work, Eastern Europe is just a cluster fuck.
At worst I'll make my money and wait till the shit is flying at the fan and then leave, the joy of having dual citizenship.
Actually, the amount of wealth relative to others is what determines your freedom. Poverty is generally measured, not by how little you have, but by how much less you have than average.
It's no good having low taxes and a moderate salary, if everyone else has low taxes and a moderate salary. That way, you just get lots of people working, and spending selfishly to compete with each other. In a more socialist system, by contrast, higher taxes and moderate salaries means that everyone is working for each other, contributing to a community. They still have the same average spending power, which means that no one is "poorer" for their lack of resources. But they're happy, and together, they've built something: a society, where people feel wanted and protected and cared for, so that they don't feel the need to sleep with guns in the drawer, or shoot their classmates.
I'm sorry, but look around what your choices are:
1) Americanized countries (eg: England, Australia) : Same crap, different accent = Might as well live in the USA
2) Countries which hate America (eg: Middle East, France and most of Europe, Brazil, even Canada....). They dont want you, and will make your life miserable.
3) Third world countries (Africa, part of Asia,
4) Developed Asian countries (Japan, Taiwan, HK...) : You cant take the cultural change...
5) Sealand : Good luck getting a visa.
6) Tropical paradise: You dont have enough money to retire there...
Most of what you say is true, but none of it really addresses my post. I'm well aware that socialism provides better average economic circumstances in return for less economic freedom. That is really the whole point of socialism, because it stems from a philosophy that tips the valuation scale towards socioeconomic safety as opposed to socioeconomic freedom.
My point was that many Americans do not value wealth so much as they place much more value on socioeconomic freedom as opposed to socioeconomic safety than the ggp and apparently you do. It's true that there are higher rates of violent crimes in many areas on the US (not where I grew up, even though it was a very poor area where everyone owned guns (all hunters)), but it's also true that, if I so choose, I can exercise far greater control over my socioeconomic standing than someone from a more socialist country.
Hi there! I am an Italian who never worked in Italy and moved out as soon as I finished education. Almost thirty and not a day unemployed yet :-)
Though you will hear Giovanni Birramedia ("Joe Sixpack") and populist politicians complain about high taxes, those are quite standard rates in Europe. Except for the 50% which is simply untrue (though it is a popular stereotype, you might have heard it said). Gas is currently at about 1.2 euros/litre. Anyway, I will take high taxes over social inequality any day: a bit because of I have a sense of justice, a bit because I do not like getting mugged.
Well, it's no news there is a high and endemic level of corruption in Italian politics. Again, every country has the politicians it deserves, and the current Zeitgeist is such that a former minister can be sentenced to six years in jail for heavy corruption charges (Cesare Previti was sentenced for having basically bought the whole courthouse in Rome) and half the population will still believe that it is a persecution of communist judges. Tolerance for corruption is so high that we have boss and vice-boss of the military secret service under investigation for kidnapping and torture, and no one seems to care. I mean, no one has actually asked them to resign.
That surprises me. Either you got a wrong impression, or the situation in the US must be similar to the jus primæ noctis. The lower layers of society (illegal aliens and such) are regularly mistreated at the level of downright slavery. I suppose it depends a lot on the branch you work in.
That has something to do with catholicism—you have to achieve sanctity through pain. That's not really what the doc is thinking, but just because it is unusual to give painkillers doctors are not used to that. This has been subject of debate in recent years, so maybe it has improved.
Italy sucks for that. If you want to be successful in Italy you must play much more politics at work and in the larger sense than in other countries, and you must be "blackmailable": the system rejects noncorrupted, as the system is built on a gigantic Mexican standoff where everybody must be able to trash anybody else in a sort of mutual-assured-destruction way. That's what comes out of endemic corruption. Of course there are bunches of honest people, but they are far away from power and kept there.
Now, I live in Norway. The main disadvantage I have found is that locals always talk their dialect rather than standard Norwegian, which is kind of irritating. Of course, you get that if this is the main problem I could find, there aren't really that many. The Norwegian tax level is sometimes indicated as the highest in the world, but I never paid more than 25% of direct tax (income tax, social security, fortune tax and so on). VAT is high (25%) and so are food prices because of protectionism (for some reason Norwegian think of themselves as a people historically of farmers, instead of pirates (Vikings) in the past and oil exporters (North Sea) now. Wages are fairly high (especially for Italian standards: a PhD student turns in over 2,300 euros/month. That's
Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
We have less to do with the rest of the US than with Europe and Asia. All the worlds cusines cheap and delivered. Don't need a car so take that off your balance sheet. My part of town is covered with hot European expatriate chicks and all the cool kids from fly over country. Plus we still get to use the Constitution and Bill of Rights! (sort of-insert Bush joke) 24 hour subways so take that, London. Cheapish beer and taxis. More live music than is doable. Tall buildings and not too many crackhead bums.
Actually Rome probably has better food but that's just me. And Beijing is cool but there are always visa problems.
Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.
It's also because you don't really need air conditioning in most parts of Europe, most of the engines use higher-grade fuel instead of huge displacements, manual transmissions are far more common, Europeans would rather drive a station wagen than a SUV, Diesel engines aren't (mistakenly) believed to be dirty and just for trucks, etc.
Really, there is no weirdness at all.
In Soviet Canuckistan the Beavers eat *you*! Seriously, watchout for the little bastards. They'll smack you with their tails until you fall over and then gnaw off your limbs. You do have to be pretty drunk for them to catch you, so the real danger is when you're new to the country and only just getting used to Canadian beer, which is about 3 times stronger than kentucky bourbon. (Don't even touch Canadian whiskey. Canuckistani airlines sometimes uses the stuff as aviation fuel even though it's murder on the fuel lines.)
You'll also have to get used to keeping a continual guard up against flying hockey pucks. This skill comes naturally to native Canuckistani's who grow up dodging pucks from an early age, but newcomers to the country often suffer a few concusions before they pick up the knack of knowing when 170 grams of vulcanized rubber is rocketing towards the back of their heads at upwards of 150kph. You should also realize that global warming may soon cause a massive housing shortage in Soviet Canuckistan as temperatures rise too high for igloos to survive the summer. Truly, the country is going to become a madhouse when people's 3000sq foot 4 level split igloos with attached garages melt into ponds.
If you do still decide to emmigrate to Canada, be sure to talk to Phil from Vancouver. He can get you set up with your government issue starter snow-shovel and official toque with genuine saskatchewan sealskin bindings and special patriotic pom-pom. (very important) Be sure the pom-pom is firmly attached. If you lose it, rest assured that a mountie will spot it. (Don't even try to run. They always get their man.) Losing your pom-pom will get you exiled to newfieland, which is a fate many consdier worse than death by poutine!
Muppet, so far as I have been taught in history lessons America was colonised by people from Europe who were seeking a better life for themselves in "The New World". They sailed over there and set up a small colony which then exploited the local environment to send back profitable goods to their backers in Europe.
I think it's fair to say that these colonies mixed far more with themselves than they did with the native population and would have seemed very insular to any native on lookers.
Time passes and the colonies grow in size annexing more and more land which was once the property of the native people.
I call bullshit. Poverty is not "generally measured, not by how little you have, but by how much less you have than average." Poverty is the inability to sustain a way of life.
What my neighbor makes has no bearing on how free I am. We use the same tax schedule but there are boatloads of folks in the U.S. who make more than me but who manage it poorly. Thus, they pay more to the common weal, may have more in the bank, but are constrained about what they can do in terms of family trips/home improvements.
You sound like a socialist in terms of everyone being on a level playing field and no one being '"poorer" for their lack of resources. But they're happy...' Christ, you sound like a Communist.
People are happy when they have political and economic self determination - regardless of how much they earn or who their President is.
I hated Clinton and I'm not enamored of Bush, but I'm not going anywhere because I get a say. My ancestors did not have that luxury.
True story: My great-grandfather went back to Italy that he left when he was 16. He was in his 80's. He was supposed to be their two weeks. They were so excited to show him their new toilet. First one the family ever had. He left after two days. All his kids, including my grandmom, glamorized Italy (and I know it's got some great stuff and having studied Latin, I know the deep heritage) but not everyone has it great and no place is all it's cracked up to be.
Finally, as for keeping guns in drawers - the primary reason for this right in the US is to kill government types who overstep their bounds. It's less about neighbors and hunting and more about preventing idiocy in the ruling class. The risk, of course, is that unsupervised children are going to harm themselves or others which is on the adults who facilitated their gun acquisition.
$30 Off All Plans: Use code TRIPLESAWBUCK
Do you really pay lower taxes? By the time you add up federal, social security, unemployment, state and local taxes you are probably paying close to 50% if not more. Add to that things like health insurance, tolls, and thousands of fees that you pay for services that other countries provide for free and you may actually be worse off.
Oh I forgot to add the extra weeks of paid vacation to that mix too.
evil is as evil does
You can exercise greater control over your socioeconomic standing? Honestly? (no, really, I want to know). It seems to me that, if people have less taxes to pay, then people who don't value their social security or health cover will work for less, because they don't factor those things into their living expenses. As such, the average person is probably paid an effectively lower wage. Almost by definition, add-ons like health care would seem to be expensive "extras" to most workers. So... with an average (mode, not mean) salary, how much can you HONESTLY change your lifestyle? Are you saying that people can lift themselves up, into better neighbourhoods and lifestyles, just by giving up their healthcare for a while? I doubt it. Even if they could, I'm not sure that's a fair way to judge, when some people may have illnesses that require healthcare, and those individuals should not be dismissed, but rather treated as equals in every way.
If you do leave, vote: http://www.votefromabroad.org/
US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
Well I currently live in Germany, I have lived on 4 different continents so I can say with some experience that this magical utopia of which I hear doesn't exist. Possibly due to a lack of actually ever having traveled or learned another language, when I was last in America I used to hear a lot of liberals talking about leaving the country as though the rest of the world was a bastian of free thought, moderation and reason. Guess what, you'll make some hefty compramises anywhere you live. Germany for example has some of the worst customer service and burocracy on earth. On the other hand it has good health care and the people are ver straight forward (yes I came here for that world famous German charm). My advise to everyone would be take some time and see the world, every country has at least a few good ideas.
Don't mess with the bunny, outsideworld.org
Mexico's problem is really corruption. Massive amounts of it. I mean you may complain about the US and well the UN, but Latin America is trying to Silver Medal in the Global Corruption Olympics (Africa is the out and out Gold Medal winner.) And this creates Mexico's problem. Why do anything if corruption is just going to take away your hard work? So, you are left with two choices (a) be lazy, or (b) leave.
Although the other poster disagreed with you (calling you racist) I completely agree. People wont understand how deeply is corruption mixed in Mexican's mind. I am a Mexican and I can see it. It is when you live or visit other countries were you find out that in my country corruption has become a natural way of life.
I marked in bold the statement you wrote which has been my feeling a lot of times in ACADEMIA. The first time it happened to my mom who is a teacher at a Mexico's university, she is the founder (and was the coordinator) of the Biology career in certain University. Everything was allright when she founded the career (with the backup of the maximum authority of the university called the "Rector" in Mexico). Then as soon as this person was changed, the department director started to make things hard because he thought that my mom wanted his place. My mom would NEVER going to be department director because that purely administrative.
The other was when I was in the bachelors degree; one of my teachers was daughter of the Rector (in another university). The department was basically divided in two groups, one where the Computer Scientists were and the other where the Soft. Eng. people where (this groups is where the daughter was).
I had a lot of problems in the last years because I used to talk and meet a lot with the Comp. Sci. people. The Soft. Eng. people were trying to get some permanent positions in the department (called "plaza") and they made a very dirty war against the Comp Sci. people.
Anyway, corruption is frustrating in Mexico, but as I stated in another post, it is that way because most people have learnt to live with it and to get something from it.
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
Yeah, and that's wrong. That is a totally corrupted perception of freedom.
If you ride a bike to work, live in a small house, feed your family and are happy, and I drive one of my BMWs to work, live in a big house, feed my family and am happy, does that make you less free that me?
Only if you tie your happiness to materialism. Ironically, leftists seem to claim that capitalists are only concerned about money, while when it comes to defining relative freedom, the only valid measure is monetary wealth.
What if you have a wife that loves you, and I don't? Doesn't that make us un-equal, and you more free than me? What if I'm a idiot with no friends, and you are a great guy with bunches?
Happyness comes form so many other factors than money, and I said that, me, the (economic-)freedom loving, high-tax hating capitalist.
I live in Denmark, with one of the most ridiculously high taxation rates in the world, so I'm not just talking from theory, this is everyday life for me.
In my family there is a guy, an academic, whom today is unhappy with his work, because he over the years declined career advances because the extra responsibilities would in no way be compensated by the exra money earned in 60+% top tax bracket. No, he is not exceedingly rich for being in the top taxbracket, about halft of everybody with a fulltime job is in it.
Cue violins. This is bullshit. That is how Marx imagined it on paper, but it never happened in real life. A recent study in Denmark showed that the average citizen is not working for the common good, but has become a spoiled welfare junkie, always expecting more and better from the government, a vicious circle..
I don't have a problem paying taxes (I'm not an anarchist), but I do have a problem with the government spending my taxes to keep 1/5 of the workforce out of the labormarket.
New Zealand rules. Sure the Telecom companies have us over a barrel, the Govrenment wants us to pay several times for the same service, the health system is falling apart, public transport and roading is a joke, but on the flip side we have a Government who isn't in the pocket of big business, have the best natural scenery, a pretty relaxed way of life. I can recommend New Zealand; except that Americans arn't really that popular right now. For god sake stay and vote the Republicans out so the US can start to heal the damage the Republicans have done.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I want to be,
Pony trekking or camping,
Or just watching TV.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
It's the country for me.
You're so near to Russia,
So far from Japan,
Quite a long way from Cairo,
Lots of miles from Vietnam.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I want to be,
Eating breakfast or dinner,
Or snack lunch in the hall.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
Finland has it all.
You're so sadly neglected
And often ignored,
A poor second to Belgium,
When going abroad.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I quite want to be,
Your mountains so lofty,
Your treetops so tall.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
Finland has it all.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I quite want to be,
Your mountains so lofty,
Your treetops so tall.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
Finland has it all.
Finland has it all.
God spoke to me.
In the US, the tax burden is well under 50 percent. Local taxes of all kinds - income tax, property tax, sales tax (aka VAT), etc. - are around 10 percent, max of about 13 percent. It varies from state to state. The average federal tax rate is under 12 percent. The average tax burden is around 22 percent in the US.
Having been all over the world in each direction, my family and I have adapted well to the European lifestyle, and if you were to come to our home, you'd see we adopted the best of everything -
* Daily exercise (a good portion of Europe values daily exercise)
* Lunch is our main meal (taken from the French)
* Red Wine with Lunch and / or dinner
* Use of the Sauna & hot tub several times per week
* Lack of bathing suit when we swim
What we discovered in our travels, and through our friendship with many Europeans, is that our lives were filled with so much stress that when we did it the European way, the stress level really went WAY down. Europeans are relaxed about simple nudity whereas Americans are so hung up about it. Europeans take time and enjoy their food (as does a large portion of the rest of the world) and Europeans have long discovered the health benefits of the sauna several times per week.
Now...that doesn't answer the original question, so I'll answer it this way. If I was moving to Europe to work, I'd probably go to Austria, Germany or France. If I was going to retire, I'd go to Croatia. Since it is MUCH harder for an American to move to Europe than for a European to move to the US...I'll probably be here until I can get my company to transfer me.
I'm not a troll, but I play one on Slashdot.
When we "said we were sorry" (see parent), we didn't know just how sorry we would become.
And sorrier still if you fat techie douchebags don't get up and vote two weeks from now.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Play WoW for ten years, and it's entirely likely at the end of it you'll be able to put it down at the end of it and never touch it again.
You had me up until then.
I thought a melting pot in this sense was when cultures mixed. The white Europeans who invaded America killed and opressed the locals and imported slaves to do their work, there wasn't much in the way of cultural exchange. The US may be culturally diverse now, but that's a recent thing. For most of its history the US was entirely dominated by white people; there wasn't a whole lot of mixing going on unless you count plantation owners raping their slaves.
Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
For some, I think Norway is a good choice.
There are drawbacks.
It's not the place for those of you who love the big metropolis. Our biggest cities, Oslo, Bergen, Trondheim and Stavanger are only in the 100.000s, not in the millions.
Immigration can be tricky, unless you're married to a norwegian, from the EU, or have a desired qualification. Immigration also takes atleast 3-5 months for the paperwork (non-EU people, EU-people can come first, apply after), and you get only a 1-year work-and-stay permit which you need to renew yearly. After 3 years you get a permanent permit.
95% of the population speaks varying levels of english, most educated people speak it fluently. Nevertheless you'll be at an disadvantage until you learn the language. The language is in the same language-group as english and german though, so it's not very hard to learn. (80% of the words are recognizably similar for example)
Parts are rainy. The west-coast in autumn can be a shock (depending on where you're from). Normal rainfall in Bergen is like 2000mm/year. (less than half that in Oslo though)
Living-costs are high, especialy services are expensive. This is a result of the fact that your waitress, your hairdresser and your burgerflipper earns a decent living.
I owned an operated a small company out of Orange County California for a number of years before recently having my company purchased by a Swedish firm in the same field. I've been here for about 6 months now and am VERY happy for the change of pace. The taxes are higher here, but they actually do a lot to help the people. There are fewer extremely rich folk, but there are also fewer poor people. There is a happy medium where everyone seems to have enough to be happy.
:)
Sweden so far seems like one of the best places I could have ended up after leaving America. We'll see if I still feel that way after 5+ years
See the OECD Tax Database for lots of data (in Excel format) on comparative tax rates in various countries. The US is relatively low-tax.
This table shows top marginal tax rate, factoring in social security-type contributions if they are separate. The actual definition for the number is "The all-in (top marginal) tax rate, calculated as the additional central and sub-central government personal income tax, plus employee social security contribution, resulting from a unit increase in gross wage earnings. The all-in rate takes account of the same aspects as the combined rate, but does in addition include employee social security contributions and if they are deductible in central government taxes etc." This table is for 2005.
Hungary 69.5%
Denmark 63.0%
Belgium 59.3%
Sweden 56.6%
Finland 56.5%
Netherlands 52.0%
Poland 51.8%
Norway 51.3%
Greece 49.6%
France 48.6%
Australia 48.5%
Ireland 48.0%
Luxembourg 47.9%
Japan 47.9%
Switzerland 47.9%
Portugal 46.6%
Canada 46.4%
Spain 45.0%
Germany 44.3%
Italy 44.1%
United States 42.7%
Austria 42.7%
Turkey 41.1%
United Kingdom 41.0%
Czech Republic 40.5%
Iceland 40.2%
New Zealand 39.0%
Korea 38.2%
Slovak Republic 29.9%
Mexico 24.6%
As a Muslim, I would definitely prefer to live in a Shari'a country. The problem is that there is none in the whole world.
Paradoxically, the religious rights of Muslims in USA are more protected than in many Muslim countries.
Your Muslim sister can freely wear headcover, veil or burqa anywhere in US, while this right is officially denied in Turkey (schools, parliament) and Tunisia (all public places). In fact, in Tunisia, a policeman might ask her to remove her headcover on the street and make her sign affidavit that she will never where it again.
Your Muslim brother can grow a beard of whatever length (at some point he might be confused with a ZZ top fan), while this right is unofficially denied in Uzbekistan and many other Muslim countries.
Muslim organizations that are banned in Muslim countries such as Egypt, can operate freely in US.
As a Muslim you can read, watch, listen to any Islamic literature, video or CD (a book abd-ul-Wahhab - no problem, Hizb-ut-Tahrir booklet - no problem), while in almost all Central Asia post-Soviet republics you would likely to be targeted by police if they found out that you own this literature.
I am quite often called a Wahhabi, an extremist, a fundamentalist, and generally very-very-very bad person. By whom? In 100% cases - by people who call themselves Muslims. I was never called or referred to as such by my fellow Americans.
There are many bad things that US is doing now to Muslims, like, eh, killing them, for example (Muslims out of the country), by thousands, harassing them in the airports, jailing them for life for being in the wrong place at the wrong time with wrong people (inside the country), referring to them in general (not to confuse with personal attitudes of Americans) as bad people of various flavours (fascists, etc.), supporting dictatorships. On the moral level this poses really tough questions of whether Muslims can live in US and pay taxes.
At this moment I feel like an old Jew from Odessa, who was given freedom of travelling in the dawn of post-Soviet times, went to the travel agency and after incessant queries about wide range of possibilities to travel to different countries picked by rotating the globe model, asked: "Do you have another globe?".
But that is ok. It does not really matter where a Muslim lives as long as he can practice his religion. This world is just a test anyway. My real nationality is Paradise (Muslims believe that all people's souls originated from Paradise), and THAT nationality I would definitely would not like to lose.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
I would live in Taiwan. I've been there three times, loved it each time. The rich culture and history just astounds me with each visit. My wife is from Taiwan, so it would be a relatively easy move.
What stops me from going? Until recently, the foreign spouse could not work in the country (that's changed now). Now what stops me from going: my children. I have a 13 year old daughter who would stay here and a 2 year old son who did NOT get along with Taipei very well. He was panicked and hard to control, thanks to all of the people and busy lifestyle. The wife and I decided that Taipei just wasn't a kid-friendly place... our small backwoods town in the southeast is sufficing just fine.
The U.S. Department of State is recruiting IT people RIGHT NOW
t ies/infomanage.html
to work in the Foreign Service and support the work of our diplomatic
corps at embassies and consulates overseas. The recruitment period
ends on 11/3/06 - less than 10 days from now.
Working at a US Embassy has some major perks. When you work for the
government overseas they pay all of your housing and utilities. Embassy
housing ain't like Army housing. Think mansion in the 3rd world and
downtown apartments in the first world. Cost of living pay to help
afford life in London, danger pay for Kabul or Baghdad, hardship pay
for subsaharan Africa. Uncle Sam takes care of his own.
Sure the work is boring, the coworkers are annoying, and people
like to blow up your workplace. On the plus side, you move every
2-4 years, sometimes to very very nice places. You get USA and
local country holidays off (15-20 holidays per year) plus vacation
and benefits like every other USG employee.
Besides, how cool would it be to have a Diplomatic (Black) Passport?
Check the Department of State recruitment page here:
http://www.careers.state.gov/specialist/opportuni
The pay band quotes on the page doesn't seem too high, but remember
that the pay listed doesn't include all the freebies like housing,
utilities, cost-of-living, hardship, etc - many of which are tax-free.
I'd pay the numbers by $30,000 to get a real approximation of the value
of overseas benefits paid by Uncle Sam.
Make that ' pad the numbers ' by $30,000. The tax-free housing and free utilities are h-u-g-e.
That page is full of half-truths and poor statistics.
I don't drink, smoke or use drugs. There are numerous reasons not to indulge, and I found them all when I used over 20 years ago. False anti-drug propaganda is not necessary in the light of the real reasons for not using drugs.
However, the arguments for not using drugs do not support the case for making war on drugs, which is an entirely different issue. IMO, the consequences of our drug war far outweigh the harm caused by what would be legal drug use.
A couple of factoids (not sufficient for decision-making): The UK had almost NO drug-related crime when drugs were available from the National Health Service. Since Thatcher joined Reagan's War on Drugs, the incidence of of violent drug-related crime has shot up astronomically. http://users.easystreet.com/ovid/philosophy/drugwa r.html
I heard a lecture by an economist at Rice University (I forget his name), and he claimed that if we stopped our War on Drugs, the price of a hit of crack would drop to about the price of a couple of aspirin. (His argument was that with costs so small, violence and theft would not be worth the risks.)
Now that I've said that, remember that the original question was,"Where would you go?" Drug availability should not be the deciding factor.
At this time, the USA is still a slightly better place to live than almost anyplace in the World, especially eonomically. It is deteriorating, but it is still better. According to the "Pocket World in Figures" (2003 is my latest), only the citizens of Luxembourg have more purchasing power than the average US citizen. Our purchasing power is higher than Japan, Germany, France, England and Canada. I correspond every day with friends who live in Sweden and Norway. They all love it, but it's only a good place to live; not to make money. Things are scarce, money is scarcer. (They have incomes of approximately $3000/mo USD, and this is GOOD income in Sweden! But it buys a lot less than the USA.) This seems to be true of Denmark, also. A friend of mine (Chinese-American with law offices in Houston, Singapore and Rotterdam) says that taxes in the Netherlands take about 75% her income there, prices are high, and services are slow. A friend of mine in Italy said it took her 6 months to get a dial-up internet connection in Rome two years ago, and it costs 4 times what she'd pay in the States. (She met a lot of nice friends in internet cafes, though.)
Although the Pocket World in Figures somehow calculated that Canada has the highest quality of life (the US second), I have relatives in Regina who had to come to the US for heart surgery because they couldn't get it in Canada; they were too old. Even if you are young enough, it may take 3 months or more to get a bypass or heart transplant.
I have friends who live in Japan and teach English (earn about $50,000/yr USD), and one who is a CPA working for an American firm, and they all say that the money goes a lot further in Japan, but most Japanese don't earn proportionally equivalent incomes.
It will change shortly: Those of us who are baby boomers will be retiring shortly. Social Security and Medicare represent about $50 TRILLION dollars of unfunded liabilities. Figure about $250,000 of debt for every man, woman and child in the USA, or about $1,000,000 per household of 4. (These liabilities are reported off-balance-sheet. If the US Government was Enron, Congress would go to jail.) The only way to fund these liabilities will be to raise taxes and create inflation, because it is such a huge amount of the GDP. Since most retirement funds are in the stock market, withdrawals will probably cause the stock market to decline rapidly and deeply. The repercussions will be felt all over the world, and places that might seem a great place to live today will not be so attractive when they can no longer sell their stuff to the USA and the USA is no longer a good place to invest. We
"The mind works quicker than you think!"
You can exercise greater control over your socioeconomic standing? Honestly? (no, really, I want to know).
Yes. Most of America's millionaires are first-generation rich.
http://marriedmansexlife.com/
Seriously, we have a young population (of a mere 4 million for a reasonably large country), theres no sectarian violence, people are well known for their friendliness, and its very easy to get in with an IT qualification. Also, you can say what you like about the Germans, Netherlands or Scandinavian countries, but lets face it; they have no sense of humour. Ireland won the "happiest place on earth to live" award not so long ago, we have a great deal of wealth, and employment is in good shape. You wouldn't bat an eyelid to see politicians and leaders ambling down the street buying groceries, although the downside is crazy property prices, which by all accounts are soon to collapse. Emigrants come home!
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
Non-correlation does not necessarily disprove causality, but it is a strong argument. (Stronger than correlation implying causality.) For numerous examples, consider the book "Why Things Bite Back". Here's a hypothetical: assume that helmets save lives. Specifically, if you're in an accident the helmet will "cause" you to live 90% of the time. Also assume that otherwise you live 0% of the time. (These numbers are completely made up, so just accept them for the sake of this example.) Now, also assume that people only wear a helmet when they're driving on certain roads, and that these roads have a 50% chance of resulting in an accident. Other roads have a 5% chance of resulting in an accident. So, in this purely made up example, every time you drive you have a 5% chance of death when you wear a helmet, and a 5% chance of death when you don't wear a helmet. No correlation, even on the assumption of causation.
Now, I want to repeat that non-correlation is a strong argument against causation. It just doesn't disprove it.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
What ever problems there are in Darfur - they are not religious. In fact, the problems are to do with nomadic tribes taking their livestock onto lands which are owned by non-nomadic farming tribes. The conflict has been going on for generations - with both sides claiming right to the land. Both sides are Muslim so there it has nothing to do with religion or religious freedom. The situation is also greatly exagerated by the West for political purpose (mainly oil, gold and uranium which are all present in Darfur). I am not saying there is not a problem - just that living here and knowing many people from Darfur - the problem isn't the one portrayed in the West and is defintely nothing to do with religion as you claim.
In fact, if you visit Sudan you will see there are many churches with a large Christian popuplation. There is also generally repect amongst the Muslim and Christian communities - especially in Khartoum. There are a number of Christians working in our company and many have attested their peaceful co-existance with Muslims to me.
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10);'
Venezuela-they are building a social safety net after generations of shafting the poor in favor of some rich elite, and they have *huge* reserves of energy, a critical factor for any nation in the years to come. Nations that have to import energy will be experiencing declines, unless they have something critically important to trade, in abundant enough surplus that they can afford it. Recently we just had an article about Iceland, which might be another good choice, as a country that has abundant energy now that they are going mostly geothermal and hydrogen.
But I bet they are adicted to that electricity they abuse. Damned robots always jacking in.
Why should the dutch have 50% africans / arabs in their country? It wasnt like that in the past, why now?
Sucks not to have stayed home in the first place, huh?
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
*BZZZZZZT*
Your geek license has been temporarily suspended.
Please review the truth table for logical implication.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_implication
Oh, and since we're on /. and the vast majority of us are computer geeks, maybe you should also consider this : in France you can have what is probably the best offer for Internet providing in the western world. From what I've seen, only Japan and Korea can top that.
For 29.90 euros per month, you get triple play : 25 Mbit/s internet access (with 1024 Kbps upload), a phone line with free calls to 28 foreign countries (including USA), and television (100+ free channels, and VoD). Plus a TV box that can record shows, much like a Tivo, and stream video from and to your computer through MIMO wifi.
That may sound strange and out of proportions, but the internet service providing is what I would miss the most if I had to move from France.
The 'war' on drugs best illustrates how the US government works. One group of governmental entities confiscates illegal drugs, and another, the CIA, imports them. At one point in time, the CIA (cocain importing agency) was smuggling 21 tons of cocain into the USA per year. This during the administration of George Bush Sr., who supported/declared 'war' on drugs to the public. Now his kid, not nearly as smart as he is, is making a mess of Iraq the the USA will need to spend the next 15 years cleaning up and all but publicly soiling his shorts to the rest of the world.
Right now, the USA is a good place to live, economically speaking. That's because most people work hard as dogs (most, not all). As the population ages and declines (we're all too busy to reproduce and can't afford it anyway), how exactly can a government turned against itself and run by a bunch of hippie neo-cons help a situation like that? The fall of the roman empire comes to mind.
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
I can't believe no-one linked to this:
"The world's top cities offering the best quality of life"
Since half this thread debated the Netherlands, I'll point out that the top 12 cities are not in the Netherlands, but in these countries:
- Switzerland
- Canada
- Austria
- New Zealand
- Germany
- Australia
- Denmark
Almost pointless at the end of such a long thread, but hopefully some lucky soul reads this.
SLM
main() {1;}
Dude, seriously, stop dispelling these myths! If people suddenly realize Canada isn't actually a subarctic wasteland, and that all the stories of people waiting years for operations are overblown or outdated, we'll never be able to keep people out!
But really the old USA that never quite existed. If it was all Liberty, this place would be great. I'm going to put my fist in the face of the next "love it or leave it" twit I hear, they're the ones turning this beautiful land into the New Soviet.
With what's been going on the last while, yes, moving crosses my mind. The place I'd go would be to one of several South Pacific or equatorial islands: Kiribati, Palau, Tuvalu, etc. The reasons I haven't left include friends, family, finances, and that I haven't assembled my ninja army to take one of those islands over. No, I'm not talking about being an American ex-pat who smokes and does the local hotties, I'm talking about going someplace and conquering it to live out my libertarian-anarchist fantasies. Anyone know where I can get a crate of AK-47s and a cheap hydrofoil?
Josh
gigantino.tv - Heavy but weighs nothing.
You can't possibly be serious. I live in Texas. There is NO state tax, ALL related federal withdrawals amount to 19% out of every paycheck, tolls are fairly cheap AND can be avoided most of the time.
As far as health insurance, unless you live in Scandinavia, free health coverage by definition cannot be better than the one you pay for. Besides, in the US there's a flexible system of payment for health - employer matching, etc. You can trust me on the superiority of "bought" social services over the "provided free" ones - as an immigrant from Eastern Europe, I should know.
I spent a considerable amount of time in Europe and I would gladly pay 15% more tax than I do now to have all the services and care the government provides. I don't know about Eastern Europe, but I do know a bit about Belgium and the Netherlands.
Even the most conservative of Americans stand by a common definition. When the economy can't provide services, Government MUST. This seems to fall on deaf ears of the modern conservatives.
BTW the quality of health care in the US in not even in the top 10 in the world.. Go look it up. We have horrible infant mortality rates and many other things because of people NOT having ANY access to health care.
There also is NO flexible system of health - employer matching available in the US. Hillary Clinton proposed one in 1993, but before the public even took time to read the system, the Republicans had it discredited on false arguments. Incidentally, her system was very close to the Beligum health care system that actually is a 'flexible system of payment for health that is truly employer matching' and works quite well.
I can understand your love of America, as there are some really good things, the whole melting pot of people and ideas, etc. But in social terms there are many things in America that are on the level of 3rd word countries, and Health Care is one of them, not only in terms of accessiblility, but in terms in the quality of medicine.
When I was younger (late teens), I had feelings about leaving the country to live in Europe or somewhere. Then I joined the Air Force and had the good fortune to visit 14 countries and to live in one of them for 3 years. Nothing made this American prouder of his own country than visiting others. I'll take America, thanks.
Moderate me as patriotic troll, I guess.
But not this moment.
Castro is (probably) going to die soon. When that happens, there will be an escuse to open the doors up, and end the insane blockade of the place. Before Castro, we'd made it an extension of the United States, where the people lacked the privilidges of US citizenship. Look around: we're actually much better at doing that now. When the doors open, it's going to happen FAST. There will be a huge growth curve, lots of wealth to be made, and the country will explode with success.
They have something we don't have: a large educated populace. We will be exploiting that.
They are also a vacation paradise, by their position on the globe, and an easy hop from florida. Your dollar will go very far, for a long while, there, so you can get established with a mansion and some servants. Look to see an explosion of all-inclusive resorts and right behind them (physically, a half-mile from the beach), an IT industry.
So wait. Don't bail yet. You can be an American in another country, be on the top of the economic food chain, be close to the States and family and friends, and make a lot of money.
Besides, you don't have to learn Dutch, French, Japanese, etc. It's Spanish -- a language you already know a little of, and it's arguably the easiest language to learn short of Esperanto.
I'd take Vancouver CA over almost anywhere else in the US, if I had enough $$$ to buy an expensive-enough home to qualify for expedited citizenship. GREAT sushi, though they're way too indulgent on DTES riffraff, they really should just suck it up and hire a Giuliani for mayor.
And if there were enough good tech jobs that didn't involve Windows.
To be honest, taxation in the US is not _that_ much lower, considering what we get back in services compared to Canada. It used to be much different, but I'm finding that very near 50% of my paycheck goes to government in one form or another (local, state, federal) and I, as a single middle-class male of European descent, don't get fuck all back. At least in CA if I were paying 50-60% of my check in taxes I'd get "free" healthcare, and as I'm not elderly or suffering from chronic medical issues at this phase in my life I don't care about queues or rationing.
If I left the United States of America I would move to the independent and progressive country known as Texas..
- Stable Government
- No Army
- Great weather (where we'll be living, parts have terrible weather)
- Very low cost of living
- Availability of most services, including high speed internet, in the central valley
- Very nice people, for the most part
- Large, established expat community
- Close to the U.S. so it's easy to visit friends and family
We will, of course, be blogging about our move (see my sig for the URL). If you're looking to ditch the States, I don't blame you one bit, and I highly recommend you look into Costa Rica. It's got most of the comforts of home, plus rainforests and monkeys and stuff.Follow the adventures of the new wandering jews
"1) Where would you live, if not in America"
In any of the more free countries. Canada, Switzerland, New Zealand, Netherlands, etc...
and 2) What's stopping you from going?"
I'm sorry, but that's the dumbest question evah. Friends? Family? The notion that we still live in a country with the greatest "potential" to do the most good and would like to help in that endeavor? The very idea of people leaving in frustration is quite sad, especially in a country where the collective ideas from a wide range of perspectives is what should be the avenue for change (in our pseudo "democracy"), which this country needs. Maybe it's a sign of complete apathy due to special interest groups with the most money (corporations, etc...) gain the most influence, or maybe it's the want of a xenophobic state. Both are worth leaving, but we should just attempt to change it.
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
I thought the comment about money not buying happiness, but rather freedom (a larger pallet of choices in life), was spot-on.
The table of marginal tax rates was pretty interesting as well, recognizing with each country, that tax rate comes with a completely different set of "features" -- take the U.K., which has a LOWER marginal tax rate (41% vs our 42.7%), and yet has national health insurance (something I am increasingly aware of, as my wife nears retirement and we lose her employer health insurance). OTOH, in the U.K., one has FAR fewer civil rights as compared to the U.S., and bureaucratic nonsense with permits and regulatory claptrap for many other things that are freely available here in the USofA.
Another example? South Korea. They have marginal tax rates of 38.2%, and one of the best national telecom networks on the planet. But would you REALLY want to live with Kim Jung Il next door?
Or Mexico, with a marginal tax rate of 24.6%, yet widespread crippling poverty (thus giving the lie to the theory that the path to prosperity lies solely with lower tax rates) and wholesale corruption that makes our "finest government that money can buy" just that. You might pay less in taxes, but you would end up having to finance your own private militia (and health care system, etc, etc) to have the security that one has here, and unless you get off shopping via the web (and losing much of your merchandise along the delivery chain), I think you'll wind up missing the shopping malls. There's a reason all those Mexicans come streaming across our borders, and it's not to live under the rule of our whacked-out politicians. And I don't see a flood of millionaires streaming south, renouncing their U.S. citizenship in order to live like billionaires in Mexico.
OTOH, there's no torrent of Scandinavians clamoring to enter the USofA, despite crushing tax rates and generally socialistic governments. They're better educated and have a very free and open press, so why aren't they eager to get out of the cold?
I think it's pretty tough (and pointless) to try and distill national comparisons down to a single number. A life experience isn't so easy to classify, and each of us has a different scale that we evaluate our life experiences by.
All this is not to say that the USofA doesn't have it's drawbacks. Things like a widespread (and growing) intolerance of others, massive corruption in a government that grows without limit and a permanent legislative class (about 90% are reelected, term after term), a health care system that is increasingly expensive, and an educational system that largely fails to deliver spring to mind.
The best option is to become a billionaire, buy one's own island and become your own monarchy.
Been listening to the propaganda again, have you? I don't blame you. It's almost all which IS being broadcast today.
Just happens that I live in a community which includes numerous Muslims. One of my room mates is even Muslim. From everything I've seen and heard discussed, these are people are some of the nicest, least murderous people I've had the pleasure of meeting.
When it comes right down to it, the three major religions are all kind of twisted. I wouldn't waste my time on any one of them. --The Koran has those nasty, "Kill the Infidel" spots. And the Bible is filled with, "And you shall kill your enemies and pull down their cities and carry away their women and children, etc." The Talmudic stuff is even worse. But guess what? Whether you act like a blood-thirsty lunatic or not is entirely up to YOU. Sadly, no one religion has a monopoly on insanity. --A good reason to reject all three. Just look at all the trouble they stir up! We have a lunatic born again president bent on dreams of empire and turning the U.S. into a fascist state, a lunatic Jewish government bent on committing genocide, and lunatic suicide bombers.
And out of the three, I can't help but think that the Christians and Jews have somewhat more to answer for at the moment. Not that that means much. The underdog always turns mean on the rebound. Humans suck.
-FL
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
What was I saying about people blaming the communists all the time...?
... which you do not. Strong arguments, Anonymous Coward.
Forgive me, father. From now on I will listen more carefully to the pious voice of Pope Germanus I.
Oh yeah, today's brats, no respects for the elders...
At what point exactly did I sign a contract with the Italian state? Don't get me started on the education I received, no well you have already:
Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Out-Leaving/dp/09760 82276
[All of the following is quoted from the Amazon book description]
Book Description
Had enough?
Whether you find the government oppressive, the economy spiraling out of control, or if you simply want adventure, you're not alone. In increasing numbers, the idea is talked about openly: Expatriate.
Over three hundred thousand Americans emigrate each year, and more than a million go to foreign lands for lengthy stays.
But picking up and moving to another country feels like a step into the void. Where to go? How to begin? What to do?
Volume 2 of the Process Self-Reliance Series, this smartly designed two-color guidebook walks you through the world of the expat: the reasons, the rules, the resources, and the tricks of the trade, along with compelling stories and expertise from expatriate Americans on every continent.
Getting Out shows you where you can most easily gain residence, citizenship, or work permits; where can you live for a fraction of the cost of where you're living now; and what countries would be most compatible with your lifestyle, gender, age, or political beliefs.
So if you've had enough of what they're selling here and want to take your life elsewhere-well, isn't that the American way? At any rate, it's not illegal. Not yet, anyway.
About the Author
Mark Ehrman is a frequent traveler and freelance writer whose work regularly appears in the Los Angeles Times, Playboy, Travel and Leisure, and numerous travel magazines city guidebooks.
I very quickly summarized the commentary here on why one would move from the US to several flamewars based on a lack of understanding of the culture in various non-US countries to arguments about tax burdens and arguments about what constitutes an addictive drug.
These are side-issues.
The reson one might be interested in leaving the US relates to something that my father shocked me by saying just some weeks ago.
He referred to the current administration in the US, along with their supporters in Congress at fascists.
Now, I respect my father. I'm not just out of his house and I'm not still reacting to the "awful way he treated me" when I "turned insane" shortly after puberty. My father has consistently earned my respect by tending to be right and by letting go of a lot of his own personal garbage. I also know that he lived through a time in which fascism was considered a viable political system in three countries in Europe -- with other countries admiring the "benefits" of a totalitarian regime that gives itself a pass for criminal activity. This is a serious and very shocking statement from a man who watched as the entire world fought against fascism and managed to win.
The US government is fascist due to several factors:
The Military Commissions Act of 2006(PDF Alert), which was signed by Bush on October 17, 2006 suspends the writ of Habeus Corpus in a time that is definitely not a national emergency.
This preserves the "Law-Free Zone" set up in Guantanimo. These detainees are kept in isolation from US Courts who, if there is adequate proof would be all too happy to confirm that these people are dangerous. Camp X-Ray also serves as a zone where the Geneva Conventions on the treatment of Prisoners of War may be utterly ignored. We broke off relations with North Vietnam (and later, Vietnam) due to their treatment of US prisoners in a manner that ignored the Geneva Conventions.
The act also pardons everyone and anyone for all acts that violate the Geneva Conventions, including the procedure of Extraordinary Rendition and backdates that exemption from prosecution to September 11th, 2001.
The President and his Executive Branch are given full reign in defining what an "enemy combatant" is. I recall that Hitler regarded Jewish persons within Germany and the territories acquired by Germany, as well as allied countries as enemies of the state. Also, anyone giving material aid to any enemy was branded with the same. There was no Habeus Corpus in Germany and the courts were puppets of the state.
What I'm saying here is that we have a very serious situation in the US where civil rights have been nullified by a political party that considers self-examination wrong and unpatriotic (there have been no committees in either the House of Representatives or the Senate to examine the conduct of the "war on terror") and are fully prepared to negate the entire Bill of Rights in order to maintain their grip on political power.
Many Americans aren't aware of how their rights have been suspended. Those who are find it hard to continue to live here.
Countries who honor the rights of their citizens and who do not give their executive branch the right to run roughshod over the rights of minorities and persons who hold political beliefs that may differ may look a lot better than the US today for a citizen concerned with our present government.
Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
I live in Czech Rep, the land of tall people with large feet (I'm serious, I know many kids around 15 that are over 190cm and wear feet size 53 - sorry for the EU units :P).
You get treated as shit, cause Czechs not only hate foreigners, but also other Czechs (as weird as it may seem), so you'll hang out with English speaking peeps anyway, by which I mean other foreigners, cause people here expect you to know their funky language...
Also as an Economics student I can see that there is something wrong with this country's economy and if you think your government is corrupt, you haven't see the one here.
If you ask me, avoid coming to Czech rep for other reason that tourism...
There are two kinds of people - those who are radioactive and those who have already decayed..
I don't expect to get a reply at all, but what's the best place for a black person? I hear all these "the people are so nice" comments for various places, then I see read news reports about rampant racist soccer hooligans, that rampage that happened in Australia not too long ago, and these other snippets of news that suggest that not all everyone is nice and accepting, at least not to darker-colored people.
So, my question is, how are the race relations in all these suggested countries (Holland, Sweden, Norway, Australia, etc.)?
Somewhat related question: Are black people still "in vogue" in Japan?
So this is what it has come to, has it?
You quit.
That's it?
It's over?
You're going to let your country expire because you're too lazy to get up off your asses and take it back? The US is (or was) the perfect example of a country. You were oppressed by some ruling class that wanted to tax you with representing you, take away your rights, and treat you like the lousy commoners you are. Instead of leaving to go to other countries, your ancestors said, "Hey, that's not right. We can do a better job." You overthrew the government and made the biggest, roughest, smartest country that the world has ever known. You invented electric lights, developed flight, split the atom, and you walked on the fucking moon. You showed the world, "This is what we are capable of as human beings when we work together. Man and woman, rich and poor, white and black, side by side."
Yeah, you've had some rough times. A few dickheads have metagamed and bent the rules towards their own sociopathic ends. It's hard to stage a revolt and take back your country when there are laws preventing you from doing so.
But you know what? There were laws against revolting from England, too. I'm sure that your founding fathers would have been hanged (lethal injection not being around at the time) or sent to The Tower (Gitmo not being around at the time either). Yeah, you might die. You might have to go to war. You've done that before - twice, and internally! - so that the side of freedom would prevail.
I am not an American. I think that for the most part, you're a bunch of arrogant assholes. But you know what? You deserve to be arrogant. A large part of the hostility you get from foreigners is jealousy. Yes, jealousy. You're a young country. You're less than 300 years old. How does that make a 3000 year old country look when you completely surpass their technology, human rights, and standard of living? Yeah, they'd look stupid for just sitting around in the desert when they could have been using the tools that were just lying around. You are the most powerful nation in the history of the planet. There is nothing in this universe that you cannot do. All you require is the will to do it.
If you leave, if you give up, that jealousy will turn to hatred - hatred that you threw out one of the best things that's happened to the world. And you are. Yeah, sometimes the US is a belligerent force. You've made some mistakes - and we all know what they are. But when there are earthquakes, the US is there. When there is starvation, the US is there. When there are floods, tsunamis, or hurricanes the US is there. Sometimes you go to the wrong places or have misguided or corrupt leaders. For the most part, you are a force for good. At least, you try to be.
We all make mistakes. Mistakes can be forgiven.
Don't give up.
If you don't like what's happening to your country, then don't quit it. Fight it. Fight to keep your country safe and secure. The only threat to your country comes from within.
Be strong. Stay and fight.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
If you want to leave the greatest country on the planet (my arrogant opinion, but easily debated), I'll do my best to buy you the ticket. I'd be happy to see you go, considering you're probably destructive while you're here. Do you: want constitutional rights for terrorists? not think we're at war? think terrorists will forget about us if we quit "provoking them" (9/11 anyone)? think more taxes are good for citizens? think we shouldn't spy on phone conversations of terrorists? think the social security system is viable long-term? think we should let anybody walk across our borders and get benefits paid by us? get lost and remember not to take your finger-nail clippers on the plane.
sorry for the venomous response, but I'm sick of this anti-patriotic crap. I fully expect to get burnt to a crisp on slashdot.
if you're foreign to the US and want to immigrate, welcome aboard. just follow the rules and I'll buy you a beer.
It's only a model.
Non sequitor. Murder, theft, and disruptive public behavior are not examples of controlling one's own body.
Obviously one can lose rights by engaging in criminal behavior. I took that as an unspoken axiom, but in case there's any ambigutity: competent adults have certain absolute rights, including self-defense, controlling their own bodies, freedom of belief, etcetera. People who demonstrate incompetence by engaing in behaviors that significantly violate the rights of others, or credibly threaten to do so, may be placed under close supervision (including incarceration, probation, and parole) and have those rights restricted to the degree necessary to protect the rights of others. Since they are not "competent adults", this does not alter the proposition that "competent adults have certain absolute rights".
Not at all. Threatening my safety by getting behind the wheel when you're not fit to drive is not an example of controlling your own body. Nor is fraudulantly selling impure drugs (or food or anything else).
Drug use, sitting home getting drunk/high/stoned/tripping/whatever once in a while, it ain't nobody's business if you do. Extensive experience and pretty solid economic theory shows that drug abuse is increased by prohibition; prohibtion drives people towards more concentrated (easily smuggled) drugs, removes assurances of purity (increasing the risks of poisoning or overdose), encourages unhealthy usage patterns, and shackles the free-market forces that would lead to the development of more pleasant and less harmful drugs.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Yes, I can. Earning more does not significantly increase your need for health care, state education, etc., yet socialist policies require you to contribute progressively more to public works the more you earn. The reason, like I said, is that the philosophy behind socialism places more weight on the side of socioeconomic safety for all than socioeconomic freedom.
As for whether or not this translates into better circumstances in reality, take my personal situation as an anecdote. Neither of my parents holds a degree, and neither have ever held a job that paid higher than 150% of the minimum wage, despite the fact that my father has kept the same job for nearly 20 years. We live in a very poor area, and my HS was rated among the worst in the state—and rightly so. I'm currently earning my degree through a scholarship to Harvard. I'm taking some time off from school to help manage the family expenses, and can put far more of the $2000/week that I'm earning as an IT/resource management contractor to paying off family loans than I would have been able to in a more socialist country.
On the other hand, I had to study until 3am basically every night for the last 3 years of high school to make up for the non-education I was receiving from the state, and I regularly work 14 hour days right now. It's definitely not easy, and perhaps I should just kick back and relax a bit more like some of my friends, but at least here I have the option to work hard and see real returns.
I don't believe socialism to be evil—or even wrong—to be honest, it's just that as one of those people who are willing to work hard, I prefer to see proportional compensation for my efforts.
"Now, a 40 hour work day is a good idea "
;).
40 hour work day?
I strongly disagree. I would recommend working smarter and not harder
What a load of ignorant nonsense.
VAT is 17.5%. If a business is VAT registered it does not pay VAT on the materials and services which it buys, specifically so that consumers don't get charged twice. A small business may choose not to be VAT registered, (although there's a maximum turnover, above which they don't get a choice). In that case, their customers are effectively paying VAT twice, but the company saves the effort of dealing with HMC&E. The threshold is quite low, I believe.
Some categories of goods have a reduced rate, e.g. domestic fuel. Some goods are zero-rated, e.g. food, (although that doesn't include snack foods, restuarants and a few other things). The full details are available on the Customs and Excise site, here: http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/
Your knowledge of our income tax is also clearly quite flawed. Everyone gets a tax-free allowance of about £5k - more for married people and the elderly, plus there are other allowances available for various things. Starting rate on income above this is 10%, on the next couple of thousand income. Basic rate is 22%. Then you pay 40% on income above about £40k. You don't pay income tax on pension contributions, and a bunch of other stuff paid directly from your sallary. Nor do you pay income tax on the returns from certain types of investments, (ISAs).
There's National Insurance, too, which is not paid by the lowest earners, (effectively those on less than the £5k income tax allowance), then at 11% on upto £645 per week, and 1% on anything above that. This is specifically to cover the state pension and other social benefits, so once you reach the state retirement age you stop paying it - even if you're still working.
Tax is complicated stuff - perhaps needlessly so - but I'm prety sure those details are correct, since I just looked them up on http://www.direct.gov.uk/. (And I must remember to complete my tax return soon.)
Your comments on illegal immigrants are just as ludicrous: the sort of misleading garbasge spewed out by the most reactionary tabloids.
For a start, you're probably confusing illegal immigrants with assylum applicants - or more likely don't understand the difference. Illegal immigrants won't be getting any handouts because they're not known to the system! Assylum applicants don't have an easy time of it and certainly don't get "dole", if by that you mean job-seeker's allowance, (what used to be Unemployment Benefit). They do get some social security payments, because we're not the sort of country that would let them starve to death whilst their application is considered - nothing to do with being racist or not. Some will be accepted, some will be kicked out, (the majority). Being a bureaucratic process it takes a while.
There are quite a lot of perfectly legitimate workers coming in from outside the UK, but at the moment most of those are from Eastern Europe - new members of the EU like Poland - and they're providing valuable services to the UK economy, and paying UK taxes. Plenty of good Polish builders around at the moment, which is great for us homeowners who need roofs fixing and the like.
I'm glad you're happy in the USA, and I don't care too much what you think of the UK, but please, if you're going to slag us off take the trouble to make your claims at least vaguely resemble reality.
See here's the problem: You seem to want a country that enforces YOUR viewpoint on everyone. When you say you are interested in a country that has Shari'a Law, you seem to mean that you want it as you understand and would choose to practise it. That's understandable, but the problem is that barring you running the show, you aren't going to find a place that everyone agrees with your views. I'm not an Islamic scholar and I can't claim to understand all the intricate differences but even my cursory level of research has revealed some major differences in opinion as to what Shari'a Law ought to encompass and how it ought to be enforced.
So, if you want to live your life according to the beliefs you have, the best bet for that is a nation that is tolerant of all beliefs. While they won't force others to conform to what you believe is right, they won't tend for force you to conform to what they think is right.
There's really no paradox here. If you go to a country like Iran that's run by Ayatollah, well you get THEIR version of Islam which might not mesh with your own. You also tend to run in to the whole "All power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely," thing. If you go to a country like this US that's very free you are going to see all kinds of people doing all kinds of things you don't like, but they aren't going to tell you that you have to join in for the most part.
You might want to take a bit of caution when applying for this kind of work. I speak of this from first-hand experience.
Dealing with classified information is very high risk from a personal standpoint. The penalties of a security breach due to personal negligence is *very* harsh. And by the job description, you'll be up to your ears in it.
Also, an Information Management position isn't strictly IT work. It's a hybrid position consisting of both IT work and your rather mundane office-assistant paperwork shuffler.
Government employment has very nice benefits, and provides a very stable work environment. However, keep in mind that whenever you work with classified information there is a lot of risk/stress involved.
Are white people incapable of being different from one another. You imply that all white people are the same. I'm pretty sure there is a huge difference between a Bosnian and a Swede. There were different cultures in this country for many years. The differences have magnified over the years from a difference between English Puritans and the Danish to the current Mexican/Vietnamese/Cuban/Croat/Indian mixture we seem to have now. Cultural differences do not exist only where the skin pigmentation differs.
Plantation owners were a very small portion of the population. In the same way that billionaires are a part of the American population. The rich always fuck the rest of us. No matter who we or they are. Most people in colonial America didn't own slaves and certainly didn't screw them. I'm sure there were a few but that hardly defines a culture. Most cultures prior to then also had slaves. A lot of them had defined laws and customs regarding trade in sex slaves (American colonies had no such trade). No one seems to dwell on slave fucking when referring to Egypt, Rome, Spanish, Ottoman and Persian societies.
As for the "Europeans came and stole the land from peaceful people..." Get over it. Every piece of land in this world was once occupied by some other group of people. Why don't we start protesting that the English get out of England? Give it back to the Welsh. They were there first! Native American cultures were hunter gatherer societies. Very romantic in theory to live off the land, but ultimately a few thousand years behind Europe, Asia and parts of Africa. I feel bad about the Aztec and Inca being decimated because they had a fairly advanced culture, but even they were insular and technologically inferior. Had they invented the wheel? Sailing boats for commerce? Stopped sacrificing people to their Gods?
Advanced and healthy societies generally replace other societies. Stronger groups of people take the land from others. That's how the world has always worked. Stop feeling bad for the Native Americans, the victims of the Vandals, Mongols and Anglo-Saxons and everyone else who got their ass kicked by stronger populations. This guilt over our cultural dominance has to stop. You can't put the Buffalo back on the prairie and you can't have Oklahoma and Nebraska back. Get over it.
_damnit_
It's my job to freeze you. -- Logan's Run
I did computer security for one of the best clubs in San Francisco. We had city supervisors and official from the Department of Public Health visit our club to see a model of how it should be done right. We also had a federally funded critical care hospital contract with us to deliver cannabis to their AIDS patients. We gave away free food, had free counselling services and support groups for people with HIV, cancer, and hep-c as well as groups for people trying to get off harder drugs.
We taught harm reduction techniques, and in fact everyone that worked there had to take a class in harm reduction. Everything Mr. Slippery is saying is true. Smoking is the problem, not cannabis. We sold many varieties of baked goods and tinctures. We also sold several brands of vaporizers, and every new member was told of the dangers and options during their hour long orientation.
You can not smoke enough cannabis to kill yourself. You would pass out first. You would have to eat several kilos of high grade hash to do the job. Cannabis is mildly physically addicting, having withdrawal symptoms ranging in severity from coffee withdrawal to nicotine withdrawal (only without the intense cravings.)
The main danger of cannabis is demotivation, which generally only happens with people who smoke it to escape anyway. People who smoke it as a medicine for pain or appetite stimulation do not generally suffer from amotivational syndrome. But if you are smoking pot as an escape, as with any other escapist behavior, a lot of life can pass you by while you are engaging in that behavior.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
We could use another wave of American left-winger immigrants. Stephen Harper got elected, ffs.
Bite the hand.
Kiss my shiny metal ass, meatsack!
Well, the flip side is that it's a minority government. Really, that's the people saying "you know what, all you parties suck", and in the end, that's probably true.
Frankly, I think this is the best government we've had in a long time... so paralyzed, they don't have the opportunity to screw anything up! And anything they *do* manage to pass must be built on consensus, meaning more Canadians end up represented.
Sure, that means they also can't do anything controversial (eg, decriminalize marijuana), but I still rather that than a solid liberal or conservative majority, capable of passing anything they like.