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Microsoft Interested In More Linux Deals
eldavojohn writes "Microsoft has announced that it would be open to more deals similar to the one it just made with Novell. 'We will love to put that kind of agreement in place with anyone who distributes Linux software, Red Hat, whoever else,' Steve Ballmer told India's Economic Times. Considering the recent reactions to the Microsoft Novell deal, it would be interesting to see who else takes them up on the offer. Novell is due to receive USD $348 million in up-front payments. Will Red Hat cash out on this offer if it feels the impending pressure from Oracle's Linux? Will non-profit Linux distributions attempt to make deals with Microsoft?"
"We will love to put that kind of agreement in place with anyone [everyone] who distributes Linux software, Red Hat, whoever [everyone] else," Steve Ballmer told India's Economic Times.
Way too obvious.
"Mr Ballmer, on a visit to India, said that while he believed software would be increasingly downloaded and managed off the internet,"
As in apt-get?
""I would say we are moving to a world where there is a lot more electronic distribution. It is a new style of software, not the old-style distributed electronically.""
He's obviously not taking his meds - as in the 'raise my IQ above that of a carot' pill he must need each morning to get out the door.
"The next frontier for us is to embrace a new business model. And if we embrace it well and that business model is subscription and advertising,"
Curious that he left out 'make good software' and 'support'...
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
If you can't fight 'em, join 'em. (and then, find a chance to backstab 'em)
when you pry it from my cold, dead harddrive.
Power to the Penguin!
Badanalogii guy? :)
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
1-Create your own Linux distro
2-Let M$ buy your soul
3-Profit
4-???
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
They can't just strike deals with everonye that distributes linux and add their 'touch' to it. You can't 'buy' Linux. You can have all the companies in your pocket that you want, but at the end of the day, it's still going to be free and maintained by developers from all over.
In a world of acronyms, the words are the real victims.
We'll be able to get SuSE Linux as we're getting the OS now. The difference is that the "threat" of suits will not be hanging on users of SuSE. This is not bad at all in my opinion.One thing I am sure of is that we will be able to play MS media files and use OpenOffice.org without fearing that a suit might be coming anytime.
Now, can any slashdoter tell me why this deal is really bad and should be avoided?
1. Microsoft conned Novell or Novell conned its users with the help of Microsoft.
2. Microsoft says "bring it on! let's have more of these deals!"
3. Slashdotter bitches about the bias on slashdot and wonders why some people call Microsoft M$ or unethical or a monopoly or E^3.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
Will Red Hat cash out on this offer
You misspelled "sell".
At last, a chance for those that love open source to prove how successful their development model is. Now quickly sign the deals with Microsoft and reap the benefits of your hard work. Congratulations on the share the source code model.
porschen
Cringely's latest column (http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2006/pulpit_20 061110_001188.html) is all about the Microsoft/Novell deal and Balmer's statement re other deals. He thinks Balmer's statement is deliberate deception to sow discord in the Linux space
The Microsoft/Novell partnership shows that the free market is alive and well in the software industry. This is one Linux user that is excited by the partnership and looking forward to more deals like this by Microsoft because in the end it is the users who benefit.
Ballmer most likely said "We would like to put that kind of aggreement in place..."
Again, not a troll, but I've seen that kind of "quote" in Indian English papers fairly often.
So Microsoft gives money to NOVEL. In exchange NOVEL can tell its customers hey look, not only you have the right to use that (as before), but now also we can assure you that Microsoft won't sue you (never been done anyway).... ah great. I was sure they would never sue me before any way, there's no such broken e-patent where I live. Or maybe next time I fly over to the US, the DHS will arrest me?
So what? Microsoft wants to give the deal to everyone.. ; hey i want to destribute my own distribution. Can I have a few milliion dollars too Steve? Just to make sure you won't sue me.... anyway, considered I have only $2000 in my bank account, even if you sued me, I would not even be able to cover your legal fee no?
Mmmm.. now i'm trembling. In a few seconds, I will click on a button at a bottom of this page and I will send that to slashdot... and crap, Amazon has patented the one click... Microsoft the click which does different thing if you click for a long or short time.. Ah crap. Maybe using my penis instead of a mouse is not patented, who knows.
There are a few comments here where people say "old news. apt-get. etc" While this style of distribution may be old news, it's not something people outside our community are aware of. Even if you hate MS, it's hard to deny how much research is done there. Somewhere around 1/4 of all computer graphics research is done there and they release papers for it too. Who knows what will come from them trying methods we hold dear. It could be good. If it's bad, then we don't have to care about their work.
Information is information regardless of where it comes from. What I'd really like to see is MS learning a lot from Linux distros and then incorporates things I happen to love about linux and oss into the system my employer forces me to use (so I can read spreadsheets... ugh). It would make my working life more fun.
The MS strategy here seems obvious to me. They bring a bunch of open source groups under their roof. The open source people who make money help MS make money as time goes by through support (not sure why MS is paying so much in advance, to be honest). The open source people embrace things like mono which work for any language (eventually) and on any system (mono). MS knows the uber geeks will probably still use Linux or Bsd or whatever, but they now can bring a LOT more open source software into the windows world. Beagle is a neat tool. Tomboy is neat. Are they neat enough for my mom to use on her windows computer? Possibly. MS could modify it and then redistribute, couldn't they? I think the gateway between free apps that are neat and their money making os is simply being opened.
If our software really is so much better, then what do we have to be afraid of. The software is GPL'd which means we're safe from anyone taking it away from us...
Reality is nothing but a collective hunch.
The same way a humpback whale is interested in plankton.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
starts compiling LFS for his new Po-Mans Linux Christmas release!
Beer! It's what's for breakfast!
FTA: "People point to Google because Google is the emblem for somebody who has embraced a different business model than we have," he said.
I'm guessing that that would be the "Do No Evil" part, Mr. Ballmer?
[dons flameproof undies]
I think if you have microsofted Linuxes, then you'll have the purists jumping ship wholesale, consolidating with other distros. What doesn't kill Linux only makes Ubuntu stronger, as they say.
I'm really not worried. I won't be using Novell/Suse. I was hoping for Novell to crush MS like MS crushed Novell with NT. That's a giant monster battle over the city of Tokyo worth watching, if you ask me. But now they're partners, like Mothra and Godzilla, or whoever that was that teamed up. And they're going to have to fight King Kong, which is totally inconsistent conceptually, because King Kong doesn't have special powers. And in this case, King Kong is obviously Apple, except Apple has special powers.
Back to my main point: There are tons of wonderful distros that will not go over to the dark side for a while, like Arch, Debian, Slackware, Ubuntu, etc. The worst that will happen if MS eats both Novell/Suse and Red Hat is no more big RPM-based distros. And is that a bad thing, really?
I mean, I will pee myself when Microsoft starts touting the Red Hat Package Manager as something I should give a flying fuck about. Microsoft Windows Vista, now with dependency hell! (and for 10.99, Vi IMproved!)
Be afwaid ... be vewy afwaid ...
.... Unless Novell wants to go the way of Corel very soon ...
Seriously - considering MS's past record with ex "partners" - I can't see why anyone else would want to "partner" with them
Realistically Red Hat should at least go to the table with Microsoft, though presumably it will do so quietly behind the scenes. If nothing else it lets Red Hat get a much better idea of what Novell has signed on for and, through negotiations with Microsoft, a better idea of what Microsoft is willing to offer. Just testing the boundaries of what sorts of licensing and patent agreements Microsoft is willing to make could be very informative, and there's no compulsion for Red Hat to take the deal. It makes sense to at least find out what exactly is on offer.
Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
In the first articles I read on this, the idea I got was that people thought perhaps Microsoft set up this deal in order to legitimize the value of their patents so that they can later sue other distributors (and maybe users). The theory was that they'd be able to point to the deal where Novell paid them $40M for their patents and say "see, these are valuable, and the defendant is willfully infringing them, we deserve massive damages".
Upon further reflection, that doesn't make any sense to me. Unless he's a complete idiot, the defendant's attorney would just say "Your honor, Novell paid $40M to the plaintiff as part of a larger deal that was offered by the plaintiff and netted Novell $340M, after the $40M payment. Novell didn't pay for these patent licenses, the plaintiff paid Novell to take them specifically so that it could use that deal as evidence of their value. No, your honor, the plaintiff has not established the value of these patents with that deal, if anything the plaintiff has established their lack of value".
I think what's really going on here is that Microsoft is trying to disarm the opposition.
See, the way big corporate patent battles often play out is that no money changes hands, because the defendant just points out all of their patents that the plaintiff is infringing. There are some big companies with big patent portfolios that have a vested interest in defending Linux. Novell and IBM are the biggest. I think that Microsoft is afraid to press its own patent claims because Novell and IBM might step in on the side of the defendant and offer to countersue for Microsoft infringement of Novell and IBM patents.
BUT, if Microsoft can pre-emptively create cross-licensing agreements with the big potential Linux defenders, that problem goes away and Microsoft is then free to unleash its patent portfolio on Linux.
I'm not too worried about Novell signing up, and I wouldn't even be too worried about Red Hat, since I don't think Red Hat has a lot of patents, but if Microsoft signs (or has already signed?) a big cross-licensing deal with IBM then I think there could be a very significant risk to Linux. I'm sure there are numerous patent cross-licensing deals in place between Microsoft and IBM because of their cooperative history in the past, but only they know whether or not those deals are sufficient to allow Microsoft to attack Linux with impunity.
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obvious M$ mentality. . .why destroy only one when you can destroy all of them?
Klingon Software is not released, it escapes, inflicting terrible damage onto the enemy as it does
You know, I, like so many others, have been focusing on Linux being in the line of sights for MS and all of a sudden it hits me... if they really are open to other deals with other vendors, perhaps its Oracle who they're aiming for. Is the prize the RDBMS market? Could MS be bolstering all the other major Linux vendors to shut out Oracle?
They've got competition, and in order to head that off, they'll pay now. Much cheaper to pay $$$ now instead of losing $$$$$ later...
For some reason, this old saying came to mind:
Once one pays Danegeld, one never gets rid of the Dane.
This sig intentionally left blank.
They want to FORK us over. And you can bet that the nimrods who buy into the "Premium" Linux will not care one bit about those of us who use it simply because of both free speech and free beer...
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
Microsoft knows they've got something to sue about.
Microsoft is in the "software" business, and they're getting pissed because of the spread of opensource. Neal Stephenson has an interesting essay on the subject of command line interface, linux, and what Gates and Jobs have spent their efforts doing in the computing world. Microsoft knows that it can no longer compete with a "collective" greater than their own, except in the capital arena. If we would like for computers to become less popular and for hardware prices to go up (because capitalism has certainly been driving many hardware advances) then we could just bankrupt Microsoft by creating an infinite number of distros =). Someone commented earlier on the smart pill that Ballmer has to take in the morning to just get by, and I think he's right, Microsoft may not lose their OS users and people who default to their software, but they can't just throw money at linux and make it go away. Sad to say, Microsoft is good for the little guy, even if their software is buggy and expensive. Who wants cheaper faster more reliable hardware?! raise your hand! Then we can all go frolic and fret and flee to LinuxLand. I hear a themepark!
-You have been modded appropriately-
... in his dying breath the frog says to the scorpion
"why did you sting me? now we shall both die". The
scorpion replies, "because it is my nature".
LINUX: I'm not dead!
CUSTOMER: What?
MIRCOSOFT: Nothing. Here's your money.
LINUX: I'm not dead!
CUSTOMER: He says he's not dead!
MICROSOFT: Yes, he is.
LINUX: I'm not!
CUSTOMER: He isn't?
MICROSOFT: Well, he will be soon. He's very ill.
LINUX: I'm getting better!
MICROSOFT: No, you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment.
This is this guys very first post... You do the math.
To me you sound like a fool, anyone else could threaten to sue users of SuSE for "IP" related issues, any one else could actually sue users for "IP" related issues, neither of which would be proof of "IP" related issues really existing. If there really is "IP" related issues in Linux, MS should spell them out, Novell at least should spell them out.
For you to "support" this deal because the terms are "not that bad" sounds foolish. Do you think this is a reasonable way for a company to do business, trying to sell their product not on the merits of the product itself or the service of the vendor but on some vague "promise" that a contracted partner of ours will not sue you if you pay us? What if I make up some similar promise; "My brother tells me that he will not sue you for some vague reason as long as you pay me, and you agree not to act in a way vaguely defined by him."
Hope those terms don't sound too bad for you.
I am willing to make similar deals with any others if that is the case.
"better ways of doing things eventually just replace the inferior things" - Linus Torvalds 09-08-07
The ink on the Novell-MS deal isn't even dry yet and Ballmer is publicly announcing his intention to violate it.
In case nobody noticed, one of the clauses is that Microsoft won't cut any similar deals with Linux companies for at least three years. It's barely three days and they're already trolling for more.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
I've been looking at all of the threads here -- interesting points for and against what Microsoft is doing. For any other large dominant company I might look at this as an encouraging development that could help the Linux movement. But Microsoft's history and habits lead me to different conclusions, or at least instincts about their intent.
I could list the litany of Microsoft's trespasses, not the least of which includes their DOJ conviction and subsequent Consent Decree which Microsoft seems to only loosely honor. Buy I need only look to the very recent past to find typical strong-armed and bullying Microsoft behavior, specifically their introduction of Zune and its associated music store silo.
Microsoft brought big guns, and big players (Samsung, Creative, among others) to develop and create the portable music industry of "Plays for Sure". The idea was to have players and music compatible across a wide swath of hardware with a large musical repertoire for purchase.
But Microsoft has thumbed its nose at that effort and struck out on its own with an incompatible "other" way of doing music... heck it's even incompatible with the old Microsoft Music Store! What the heck?
So, while I can't predict or summon up the specifics of Microsoft's intentions to harm the Linux community and how Microsoft would do just that, but I sure have seen enough to be pretty sure their ultimate goal is to squash Linux, or make it completely theirs to the extent and extreme it no longer looks anything like the Linux of today.
I hope the other Linux distros can withstand the Microsoft juggernaut.
How this would affect the Novel/SCO/IBM lawsuits?
Keep your friends close, keep your enemies even closer.
It's obvious why you would want this sort of interaction between machines, but take a broader look. For example if the Nintendo Wii runs its non-game software on a linux core and MS opens up to Linux, does that mean that now the homes the Wii permeate will also be able to (hypothetically) interact with Micosoft "channels?" What implications could this have on the industry outside of PCs?
Get an axe. (Ash - Army of Darkness.)
Embrace, extend, extinguish - somehow it strikes me that this is more a return of trusted old tactics. Novell gets $$ but becomes dependent. More $$ (the first shots are always free) until the hooks are in properly and presto - no more competition.
Just a thought..
*Yawn*
Wake me up when they become partners with something like Debian
I am having a hard time getting what actual benefit Microsoft is actually receiving for its money.
They are paying a pile of money to no be sued by a Linux vendor???
In simple terms can someone explain:
1: What it is microsoft claims to be paying for? And the realistic tangible benefit.
2: Possible hidden benefits they get out of this?
Microsoft talks about "interoperability" with Linux ... but the source code is Open. They don't need Novell to help them with that.
And certainly not at a third of a billion dollars for that "help".
What, specifically, is being purchased?
Ballmer does realize that there's nothing preventing patent holders doing exclusive indemnity deals with Windows resellers, right?
Doh, mind that chair!
So what if Balmer is sowing discord?
...
All Novell has to do is be up front and specific in what what purchased, why and how it directly affects their business and end users and other Linux users.
Since Novell does not seem to be willing to do that
1. The truly want to Linux and produce a very of Linux with their 'touches' and make it free like all other versions. Basically, they give up on the whole competing with Linux and instead will transition to a FOSS based kernel with a for-pay MS GUI on top. Personally, I find this option the least likely.
2. They plan to sow FUD within the Linux community. "You are in bed with MS?!?!! Then we won't work with you any more! You get software updates last!". This could be possible and is an old war tactic. It is much easier to fight your enemies (Linux people) when they are fighting themselves.
3. They plan to inject just enough of their IP into the Linux world to take it over using the legal system. Hard to achieve, but they do have very deep pockets.
Anyone have any other evil plans that they could be cooking up?
Space for rent, inquire within
Linux companies should tell MS to piss off. Of course, money talks.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
And look forward to running Flying Chair Linux...
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
said the Spider to the Fly.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
I think this could lead to a very similar situation, since we can be sure that Microsoft isn't looking to peddle an OS that isn't Windows.
I am not a Linux user (Mac OS X), but I think competition is necessary to innovation. Microsoft is not getting into Linux for any altruism, I think it's quite the opposite. This could lead to very bad things for the Open Source movement.
Skeptical Limericks
Novell still has an ace up its sleeve with the WordPerfect antitrust suit they can use to keep MS Lawyers at bay.
I know you're all just outraged over this, but really your opinions and choices are meaningless. Companies who _pay_ Novell/Redhat for Linux, as opposed to a bunch of dirty hippies who think everything should be free, will be quite happy about the prospect of friendlier relations with Microsoft and better interoperability with MS operating systems and applications. Ergo, neither Novell nor Redhat care about your pithy quips at "M$/MicroShaft/Whatever"'s expense.
Microsoft wants to make deals with more companies to get a percentage of more companies profits? Surprise.
Also... if I create my own lil' pet distribution and add it to distrowatch will I get $300 million? (Heck I'd settle for $300).
Funniest day ever will ofcourse be when Ballmer contacts OpenBSD for a deal like this...
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty
Im all for it if it brings gaming & other innovations to linux desktop... I know there are games for linux but they are few and far between and there is cedega/wineX but thats still difficult Ive had trouble installing games and even getting games to work thru Cedega even if it says its supported... I should be able to install a game and have it execute without a headache... As for the other innovations I know linux offers virtually everything MS has but for the most part its difficult for the average user to setup and install linux... Even with the YUM YSAT(i dont remember exactly what SUSE's is) and apt-get
I love it when individuals think that they're smarter than all of the individuals in one of the smartest run companies on the planet...
it's still going to be free and maintained by developers from all over.
That's all well and good, but up to this point, "developers from all over" still haven't been able to put together a product that people will take for free. MS isn't going to "buy" anything. They're going to streamline and clean up SUSE and other products, to make them much more useable by people working in mixed platform environments. The "developers from all over" can keep doing their thing. It's just that most Linux users in 5 years won't be using their version (it's easy to change your screen resolution... just open a terminal, type 'blah, blah')... they'll be paying for MS's version with all of the bells and whistles that people expect from a modern OS (it's easy to change your screen resolution... click the button that says 'screen resolution').
You've hit it right on the head. There are quite a few things Balmer is leaving out; and what he's not saying speaks volumes. He's also deliberately not saying that Microsoft wishes to become a good citizen of the Linux community.
Or, in short, what he's telling us is that Microsoft is up to its old tricks again. One needs to ignore the smoke and mirrors, and instead read between the lines.
That's why I object to Novell's deal. What they have done is to deliberately attempt to go around the rules that everyone must play by. That's not being a good member of the community; that's telling everyone else to f*** off, they don't have to play by the normal rules. Pure sleeze, which is the unfortunate norm of the closed source world. I had expected better from Novell.
If Microsoft and Novell wish to foster respect and trust, they need to play by the GPL and not try to figure out ways to go around it.
The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Peter Drucker.
I can see that MS would want several Linux partners for several reasons: 1) When people want to go with a free OS, MS can push them towards the MS supported version so they will then be able to sell them Linux versions of applications. 2) No matter which government or country or industry decides they want to oust MS products from their IT departments, this gives MS a foot back in the door to start selling them more product again. "isatrap" is damned right. This play is simply MS try to re-assert its presence in those places it has been shut out of already.
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
I just think the GPL and other FLOSS licenses are strictly stronger than whatever Microsoft can put together. Microsoft is entering unknown territory and opening themselves to attack against a potent enemy. Also the unwieldy bureaucratic nature of MS will slow down their tactical responses. OSS has the overall strategic advantage. I know many Slashdotters are afraid of Microsoft's intentions. Yet even if Microsoft deems OSS harm it does so with such brazen that it greatly underestimates OSS.
We should not run away from Microsoft but bring them closer. Allow them to get comfortable and in the end it will be them who is extinguished.
Whoa. You bought that whole "do no evil" thing hook, line, and sinker, huh? Well, there's one born every minute, so they say. Anyway, he meant making revenue from advertising and giving the product away for free. The whole "Do No Evil" is called "marketing". If it were authentic, it would be called a "mission statement".
Microsoft has the undenial habit of embrace/extend/extinguish. If you don't see that inevitability, you're pretty much just plain fucked in the head.
Best. Use of itsatrap tag. Evar.
...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
hey, they can't keep it from happening by 'mistake' to their own products, I'm sure they'd find a way to make this kind of thing happen in a 'partners' Linux product.
6 4073
This is actually kinda funny considering Sony is about to release the PS3. And it couldn't have happened to a more deserving company.
http://forums.xbox.com/1/7864073/ShowPost.aspx#78
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
It must be raining cats and chairs! That might be why that pig was flying away so quickly minutes ago.
But by there own admission there is no coninent not to sue: "Our agreement with Microsoft is focused on our customers, and does not include a patent license or covenant not to sue from Microsoft to Novell (or, for that matter, from Novell to Microsoft). Novell's customers receive a covenant not to sue directly from Microsoft." [Novell FAQ] and Novelll says that Suse Linux does not infring on any patents: Q3. Is this agreement an admission that Linux products from Novell infringe Microsoft patents? No. Patent concerns did not drive our entry into this agreement. Novell makes no admission that its Linux and open source offerings infringe on any other parties' patents. Our position has not changed as a result of this agreement. ...[Novell FAQ]
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
Linux can't be buried in the same way that a proprietary piece of software can, granted, but I think that Microsoft thinks that it can be buried -- or at least made irrelevant -- through use of software patents.
Basically, you engage in Novell-like patent cross-licensing deals with all the major Linux manufacturers, and push them towards one distribution ("MSLinux"). You drop hints about possible liability if anyone uses non-licensed distributions, discouraging their adoption and funding. Plus, you create a lot of proprietary, MSLinux-only 'compatibility extensions' that let it work with Windows. In the end, once "MSLinux" has captured a significant portion of the market, you cut of its air supply and let it die. This leaves people with little choice but to migrate to Windows, since the other Linux distributions are either perceived to be dangerous (due to patent landmines) or have simply been neglected and underfunded for so long, that they can no longer compete.
It's not a total endgame against Linux, but it's a pretty significant move. The GPL prohibits Linux from ever being killed completely (particularly outside the U.S.); but if you get enough software patents, it might be basically impossible to use in any significant, competitive way, without opening oneself up to legal problems.
The real unknown variable in all this is where IBM stands. They're obviously pro-Linux, but their support is generally indirect. You don't see them buying or operating their own Linux flavor or distribution outright. I wonder if Microsoft started buying up the competition, and the field started to narrow, would IBM jump in and pick up one of the players?
IIRC, the Linux desktop that IBM was going to deploy companywide (which would have been significant in itself, they have something like 300k employees) was a RHEL derivative. I wonder if they have some relationship with RH that would make them a likely buyout, or at least patent cross-licensing target?
That would be interesting; Novell and Microsoft and their patents on one side, and Red Hat and IBM on another, with the biggest repository of patents in the U.S. That would be an interesting showdown.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Chances are if the news is out there already, then the discussions are over. Probably MS and RHAT did not come to an agreement.
Autonomous Retard -- Is your camp safe? UnsafeCamp.com
They are moving more and more into the .NET realm with their mono project, and the software they want to create of course they have to secure themselves from law suites.
The paper will be a different colour of white.
The fonts used will be different.
The clauses will be renumbered.
It will not have Novell's name in it.
The monitary amounts will be different.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
Take their money and run!
I think M is making a move to eventually "own" Linux too. It would be just de facto but they could have a leash on enough big Linux distributors. Once they (L) get use to the money steam M would be in a position to apply pressure. If it is done for the benefit of the world some good might come of it but ... ... Well you know!
Remember who loaned Apple 100 million with no strings attached.
Maybe Novell drops all other suits against them? Does anyone know?
Is the WordPerfect one still on? I remember that a while back Novell won big against them. (big is relative)
If you tag everything "itsatrap", I suppose it's inevitable you'll eventually tag something that is actually a trap.
Game... blouses.
I think that what Ballmer and Microsoft are up to is to take over the distribution chain. What Microsoft wants to do is to became a one stop house for all software customers. If a customer needs/wants a commercial linux with support he/she can go to Microsoft and buy it. A customer benefits because he has only a one channel to work with, one vendor how quarantines and provides all the he wants. Microsoft benefits because it can at the same sell try to persuade customer to go for Microsoft products. Also by being the first contact to the customer, Microsoft guarantees that Novell/other companies making the same deal won't try to persuade customers away from Microsoft products.
You might ask why is Microsoft changing it tactics to semi-embrace Linux? One answer is that Linux is not going away and the second is that today's and tomorrows computing environments will be multi-os and multi-vendor, because of advancements in virtualization and deeper standardization of communication between different enterprise application. In this environment for Microsoft to succeed, they need to be more closer to customers and be able to satisfy all customers need, of course at this position they have more power to bring customers to their software offerings.
Survey research tool for commercial and scientific use
LOL for thinking to try that.
Double LOL for that being the result.
What is the 'deal' anyway? Offer Linux distributor millions of dollars, and if they accept the money promise not to sue them for patent infringement?
Sign me up!
http://kilowattradio.home.comcast.net/linux2micros oft.jpg
...
... keep chewin'
if you can't ignore them,... beat them.
if you can't beat 'em,... eat 'em
if you can't eat 'em,...
if your jaw gets tired,... cook 'em first,... season them carefully,... and invite friends over for an open source, holiday meal!!!
-=-=-
if you're wonderin what this has to do with operating systems,... congratulations, you're ready for "business poetry 201"
Nah, i dobut the offer will even be extended to them.
I wonder when Microsoft will go after BSD... Its bound to happen eventually.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I wonder if I could whip up a distro called "SM Linux" (Senior Moment Linux) and get MS to pay me a million or two.
Balmer: "We've already established that some of them can be bought off. We're just haggling over the amount."
Who wants to join them!?
Contracts are what you use on your friends...
-- Prepared at the direction of, or to be sent to Legal Counsel, in anticipation of litigation. Attorney Client Pri
This may be just like when MS Put money in to Apple. Keep them from going under to ensure you can never be hit with a monopoly case. then keep it barely floating in the user base at a very low manageable percentage. control without controling.
And oh, I almost forgot, the reply is very neatly summed from the homepage link to the response: "Unthinkable".
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
They thought it didn't matter what the community said or did, because they thought they had found a GPL loophole. They will care when they get sued.
Whoa. You bought that whole "do no evil" thing hook, line, and sinker, huh? Well, there's one born every minute, so they say.
No, in your rush to make yourself feel "insightful" and/or "interesting" you missed the fact that it was intended as humor (a deliberate twist on "do no evail" as a business model) and I in no way ever implied -I- buy into it.
Google "says" that, so my thought was more that Ballmar might be talking to it, and I found the cheap jab amusing.
In short, I don't belive google really means that anymore than I really belive your post was anything more than intellectual masturbation.
to develop my own distro, sans mono and any other suspect code.
This is what Linux is all about, if you don't like it, roll your own.
I have no experience rolling up a distro from scratch but I see that now is the time to begin learning.
I have been a loyal Suse fan for years now, I guess since about 7.3.
No more. I'm phasing out my Suse installations beginning ASAP..
Thanks Suse, it was a great run but the honeymoon is over and I want a divorce.
Just say no to MicroSuse.
Someone else has mentioned it before: the real target here may be Oracle.
It would make sense on some level: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. For the time being anyway. Novell and Red Hat are no serious threat to MS. Oracle may be. Oracle announced just recently they'd enter the Linux business and practically declared war against Red Hat. So what does Microsoft do? Use a deal camouflaged as a patent deal to pump money into all the enemies of Oracle to support them so that Oracle will fail on the Linux market.
It's just a possibility. Right now the water is still to murky to clearly see what's going on. But it might make some small sense that way.
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?
It would be a good deal only if they help improve gaming and other features in Linux... I know linux has some gaming but it sucks... It can be very difficult to get mainstream games to work properly or even work at all in linux... And cedega is a work a round that works only part of the time... Also other features too that 1 you might have to buy a commerical version of linux to get out of the box like MP3 or other software.. I know you can download mp3 for linux but the average user will not understand the commands and be discouraged... I know it probably wont happen but if MS were to help in these areas heck even build a suitable software to purchase to play games that actually works on linux im all for the collaboration...
Good plan, but MS will be chocked by antitrust lawsuits, especially in European Union where they are already getting in trouble for small things like an integrated media player. Trying to kill the only realistic competitor doesn't look good. If Linux didn't exist, Microsoft would have to create it :-)
Hmmm! M$ doesn't give away money for no reason.. They didn't get to be the wealthiest corporation in the world by giving away money. Micro$oft's goal is to own-the-whole-of-the Software World.. It hasn't changed. If other Linux companies like RedHat make a similar deal with Micro$oft, Micro$oft has got to come out on top, there's no two ways about it... Read the fine print.. Does Micro$oft continue to receive a cut from Novell after the 5 years or does it go on forever?? What piece of Novell do they own?? From the outside it looks like the deal only last 5 years, but does it really?? If the agreement is written in Lawereese, it probably goes on forever. Anyone signing a contract with the M$Devil would be subject to the same rules no doubt. Go ahead sell your souls... Novell did.
I sort of wonder if this is just a PR stunt which will backfire on is (the linux users).
Think about it.
Most of the people in the linux crowd won't touch a Microsoft item with a ten foot pole, and even then we are checking for germs and creepy crawlers.
So, MS gets into a deal with Novell/SuSe.
The users back away.. running to red hat (or some other distro).
Then they can go (in public, because its FUD).
"See, even we, of Redmond, can't make Linux pay off. Its too "unfocused" and subject to the whims of others".
And they have data which shows this because the linux market has declined (for them). And don't forget people, you can proove anything with stats. (look at the RIAA and MPAA)
Bingo.. Novell/Suse is deprived of money, which reduces their ability to fight MS in court.. Plus it has the ability of weakening the arguements for linux in a way that can't be easily rebutted. (not a technical one or even a legal one, but a perception)
God made the Idiot for practice, and then He made the School Board -- Mark Twain Look for http://Thebar.steelbeachca
Patents are patents. Ownership of the software is what I was referring to.
Reality is nothing but a collective hunch.
Despite all the concern over the years, who would have guessed that Microsoft would, rather than competing in an open market, would just BUY the marketplace.
After they keep saying it, including in TFA? Subscriptions and advertising.
MS 1.0 = turn computing into an "experience" and sell the experience.
MS 2.0 = add ads to the "experience" and rent it instead of selling it.
Pretty straightforward. What I can't wait for is the next wave of FUD: "Linux isn't ready for the desktop because the advertising experience is severely limited."
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
I am not a Micro$oft fanboy. Unfortunately in my day to day work ::shock, horror:: I run across Windows. I keep reading how M$ is going to "take over" Linux. Don't you think that they would just take *BSD and make it their own if they really wanted to make a *nix their own? (I seem to recall a little product called Xenix in my distant path as well).
Now that you say it...
:)
Is DirectX 10 just a Windows port of GLX ?
I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
Makes just about as much sense...
One more thing. This may be considered by some to be inflammatory, but nevertheless... I hate Microsoft Mormon Nazis.
By doing such deals Novell are in some sense giving validity to MS claims. Conversely while MS continues to make threatening noises and not acting on them they can be accused of harassment through false threats of litigation. If MS really believes they have a case then why up to now have they not acted on it.
I would advise the other companies to not take up the offer. If they subsequently end up in court they can produce the MS/Novell deal as evidence of the baseless MS claim. That agreement in no way confers any rights to Open Source to Microsoft. That they make no such explicit claim is cogent in the extreme.
davecb5620@gmail.com
"what sorts of licensing and patent agreements Microsoft is willing to make could be very informative"
Why would Red Hat want to pay MS for their own code?
was Red Hat should go to the table (Score:5, Fud)
davecb5620@gmail.com
I'm not sure what they are playing at, but there is little to no reason not to just take the deal, run with the money, and then not bother heavily integrating MS technologies into your technology.
There's nothing wrong with making your SMB support in Samba better. You may run into long-term issues w/embrace & extend if you use SMB for everything, though, and make SMB your primary file sharing/printing networking support.
It's almost as if MS is offering the same sort of deal that IBM had with MS back with OS/2, except that MS wants to take the roll of IBM.
GPL code is safe. This is not a patent licensing agreement. These agreements do not admit liability to patent infringement lawsuits. The only thing is that Linux distributors should take the money with a grain of salt.
Once you know *what* the trap is, you can potentially use it to your advantage. $300+ Million is no small sum for any company.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
"All DWIM programs take the following form:
DWIM
When executed, the program does what the user wants it to do, without any restrictions. How it does has never been defined."
Never worked, until now.
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
Yeah, but when you can't get 'em through Customs, might as well spend 'em on Linux FUD...
I want to see Adobe/Macromedia more interested in Linux!!!
Dang it!
~CYD
//Nothing to see here, please move along.
The problem with all those arguments is that Novell/SuSE, RedHat, Debian, and Ubuntu are largely just distributors and packagers of other people's software. They can't cut deals on behalf of the authors, and the original authors of that software are vigilant about software patents, as is the user community.
Furthermore, we have had several software patent claims against FOSS and they have had no teeth: by the nature of FOSS projects, wilfull infringement hardly ever occurs, and damages are hard to claim. In the end, software patents are quickly and easily disposed of by FOSS by working around them.
I think we should consider this spending mostly part of a big FUD and PR campaign on the part of Microsoft. In the end, however, it's meaningless.
... i think i just overheard OpenBSD mentioning an end to their financial difficulties.
I think what they are after is this: they want to consolidate the business use of Linux into a few corporate hands and then control those hands. How? Like this:
* create an impression that only one (or N) Linux vendors are legitimate and that the rest carry potential patent risks
* in case the risks do not seem real enough, at the same time provide an incentive to incorporate MS-patented code into Linux (by Novel and by the "non-commercial" developers)
Or look at it like this. MS can't just take the GPLed code and run with it, like they could with BSD. But instead, they can pay Novel to develop code on their behalf that they can then redistribute via simple bundling. So far so good. Linus would say it's fine as long as we get the contributions back. But not really - those contributions will likely be tainted by MS's patents. This is because Novel has no incentive to avoid this and MS has a strong incentive to steer Novel towards their patents. So if Linus takes the code, he will risk dramatically raising risks of infringing MS patents, thus making Linux into a Novel-only property for business use. If he does not, MS has effectively stolen the GPLed code without contributing changes back. Nice work.
Sure they will be happy to strike this kind of deal with other distros. The more of them are involved, the more patented code will tend to get into Linux, and the more control MS will have. I'm hesitant to use the Tolkien analogy, but it is still true - the 9 kings no doubt also thought they were getting a good deal when they got their magical rings.
They're going to streamline and clean up SUSE and other products, to make them much more useable by people working in mixed platform environments.
Microsoft hasn't even been able to do that with their own products; what makes you think they'll be able to do it with Linux?
it's easy to change your screen resolution... just open a terminal, type 'blah, blah'
Well, I hope that the people at Microsoft are as ill-informed as you are and that that's why they spent the $348m. (Hint: it's System > Preferences > Screen Resolutions)
I doubt any deal which involves patent licencing deal would work with the GPL. You cannot take my code, which you have licenced through the GPL, and close it by inserting patented code in it. Perhaps it would work with a BSD licence, but I'm sure you cannot do it with the GPL. I think that's the reason why companies like Apple and Nokia use BSD in their Unix systems.
My understanding of patents (based on mechanical and electronics engineering) is that only commercial usage of the invention is restricted. The patent is a public document that anyone can study, and even build a copy of the invention as long as it's not used commercially. The original idea of patents was to encourage inventors to disseminate their ideas, by giving them some limited protection.
So, if the same idea applies to software patents -- and why should it not -- then how can any non-commercial software violate any patents?
Of course, software patents are tricky as they aren't included in the traditional ideas of what you can patent (in this case, math), and they are also covered by copyright law. Traditionally patents and copyright were meant for different kinds of work. Also, different jurisdictions regard these issues differently.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
I don't want to make too big a deal out of this, but: your interpretation is in your hands. If you choose to temper judgment with common sense (such as the context of current discussion: SUSE and other desktop-centric Linux distributions), life will be easier for all involved. If you decide to style every conversation as a courtroom battle, you're a bigoted pedant: you may find yourself struggling to maintain what friendship you have.
What we say can be accurately misinterpreted even when we are careful to be precise. Consider: "Garnish that dish, or I shall garnish your salary!" By your rule, this could be interpreted as: "Seize that dish (to make up for some loss), or I shall make your salary more attractive by the addition of decorative details!" Of course, such an interpretation would be completely devoid of that human quality, "Common Sense"; exactly like computers.
Mono is currently sponsored by Novell. Most organizations prefer Java over .NET because it runs on almost any platform, and they are therefore not locked in. Big selling point for Java. OTOH, .NET is cross-platform, to the extent that Win95, Win98, WinXP, Win2k, Win2k3 and now Vista are different platforms.
With this tie-up, MS can sponsor and shepherd the open source development of .NET for other platforms as well. Win-win all around. MS does not have to be seen as forced to implement support for Linux, while customers are assured that they can move to a different platform using their .NET code base.
Microsoft has a history of taking something, adding something proprietary to it, then marketing it to business droids, which then force the rest of us to adopt the Microsoft "flavor of the day" if we are communicate to the business community.
I had to drop my online broker over this - as my older system, which has "hooks" in it which will not honor embedded executables, would not communicate with his new Microsoft technologies which used some weird nonstandard crap that only IE understood. The broker thought that putting the phrase "IE Required" on his website would be enough. After all, he is a businessman, and what big businessman needs to consider whether he can talk to his customers when he feels he is big enough to command the market? Somehow, in all the business training he has received in the American Business University has convinced him forcing me to agree to a EULA which denies accountability gives me any peace of mind to deal with him? And I am supposed to be in peace with my ignorance of what my machine is doing? Gee, he might as well print his Business Agreements in Hebrew ( which I do not understand at all ) and expect me to feel comfortable with agreeing to it.
When one is paid millions of dollars, and has the clout to order others to maintain his crap, then he doesn't need to worry about things like keeping the keyloggers out or seeing to it he keeps his system "in revision sync" so he maintains compatibility. He lives in an imaginary world few of us can afford.
Asking megapaid business executives to consider the needs of their customer to me is akin to asking GM executives to proceed on the electric car, or asking Ford to develop hybrid technology. This is not the kind of a thing that people used to "making the market" will do. They have the marketing expertise to push what they can do profitably, and to heck with what the customer needs. Its up to third-tier folks like Toyota Motor Company to listen to the customer.
Its easy for top-tier businessmen to tell their customers to "go take a hike", but who is gonna risk offending a multibillionaire? Top-tier executives know how to mount the dais, stand behind the podium, and tell their stockholders of market share losses, while the lower-level companies are consigned to meeting the needs of their customers if they are going to sell a product.
I understand GM would not even sell the EV cars to their fans, even though the fans were quite willing to cover non-warrantied ownership. Once they get too large, businesses act funny and ignore their customers.
Microsoft knows business, and knows how to use people's "need to talk to business" to leverage their proprietary technologies. They see the variant of business adopting "dollars" in order to do business, so everyone who goes into a store must have "dollars" to do business. Not pesos, not francs, not pounds sterling, - dollars.
For this reason I am extremely leery of Microsoft selling patent-protected communication protocols to business.
Most businessmen are NOT computer professionals, and most of the people who make the decisions are paid so much that the problems I will experience do not affect them. Its a problem we have here in America when everytime we need more money, the Government simply prints it. Yet we expect the world to honor every confiscory law we coin exacting revenues and taxation for even as much as using what used to be standard communication protocols.
Here's hoping the rest of the world sees whats going on, and keeps the communication infrastructure free and open, leaving America to be stuck with countless legal arguing, forced obsolecence, and other benefits that only the American executives believe to have value.
I fear things will go just like our system of physics, where our measurements and tools are different from what the rest of the world uses.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
We alway new MS cannot be trusted and now Novell cannot be. Thier support for MS OpenXML Format and helping the format get appoval with ECMA while at the same time making statements that they support OpenDocument format is very questionable. Companies that operate on both sides of the fence simply fail and cannot be honest. They have with this deal given up support for ODF by proxy. They might say they want SFLC help regarding GPL license issues to try and save face but do they really mean it or care if they getting $$$$?