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Hans Reiser to Sell Company
DVega writes "Due to increasing legal costs, murder suspect Hans Reiser is seeking to sell his company. His lawyer William DuBois said he is running out of money to pay for his defense. DuBois added, 'This is a unique opportunity for someone to buy the company for pennies on the dollar. We welcome all vultures.' This is a good opportunity to own a filesystem and rename it after your own."
AeroFS.. I bet that would bring a lawsuit from Microsoft..
Aero
Please stop hurting America -- Jon Stewart
DuBois added, 'This is a unique opportunity for someone to buy the company for pennies on the dollar. We welcome all vultures.'
There's one hell of a joke about lawyers being vultures themselves, unfortunately the fact that a lawyer of all people said this has rendered my brain unable to make it.
No sig for you!!
Death-Hallow File System, natch.
CowboyNealFS?
er, couldn't you just fork it and rename it whatever you want for free?
When Lucas makes a movie about this, be sure to wear your "Hans shot first" t-shirts.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
to make a killing.
Why get a civil rights activist who died in 1963?
If he turns out to be innocent, it will be just that much sadder -- he will have lost his wife and be ruined. A justice system that is so where money often plays such a key role in influencing the outcome is a very disfunctional justice system.
We should start a collection to buy and rename it.
and that's not pennies on the dollar. Oh wait, it's actually pennies.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
You could occasionally /give/ mod points for a good post (down-mods would also cost 1 karma).
:o)
Mod points would have to be added to the system to make up for down-mods, but you'd be able to put right moderation injustice yourself!
Ps. Mod parent up!
Wikileaks, no DNS
FFS!
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
As a company owner, this thing is so sad. But on the techinical aspect, ReiserFS has better numbers in i/o, read and write that ext3, but many, many times, the way Hans conducts himself, lead to more and more people running away from ReiserFS.
Novell have just switched from reiser to ex3 at opensuse 10.1 or 10.2, I can't remember well, and this was the last "mayor" distribution supporting it. Any way, his company was loosing value, even more, his company is more like a one man company that a group of people. I doubt Namesys has CMMI, or follows any structured development strategy, so, buying a company whos best product is the sole creation of his owner is a very, very bad move.
I hope he gets some money for his company.
Â_Â
Deep Shit File System
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
Name it the OJ FS, and wish him the same justice?
I think someone from slashdot needs to step up and confess to this murder. ReiserFS is a hell of a filesystem ... I would do it myself but I have an alibi. So who wants to be our patsy?
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
Maybe Microsoft could buy it and change the name to WinFS. It seems this might be the only way for them to get it out the door. It worked wonders for them with QDOS.
LawyerFS
m10
Who would buy it with Reiser3 being used less and less and with Reiser4 not fully implemented in the Linux Kernel?
Not all conservatives are stupid,
but it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
- Hume
Perhaps he might get more takers and a higher price if the proceeds from the sale were used to set up a trust for his kids. They don't have a mother and their father will probably be in prison until he dies. Human buyers will make a more emotional connection with helping his kids than they will helping the defense of a murder suspect.
One of the big boys is going to come a 'callin: MS, Apple, or IBM. Good-bye "Reiser FS", hello "insert MarketingSpeak here" (I'm thinking someting inoffensive and corporate, like "YouFS" or "MSRULZ4VR").
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
Reiser was arrested Oct. 10 after the Oakland Police Department found small drops of blood in his house and on his Honda CRX.
I'm not sure I'd want to buy a company from someone driving a Honda CRX...
"If you think you have things under control, you're not going fast enough." --Mario Andretti
Well, DOS is an Operating System. ReiserFS is a FILEsystem.
If you mean Windows should drop NTFS, purchase this, rebrand it and have it ready for Vista's release, than i think you're either trolling or a little naive.
heh, maybe Hans was in deals to sell it to MS (WinFS), but his concience ate away at him, and he ultimately refused. In return, they killed his wife, and now they get their FS on the CHEAP!
This is not the greatest
Name it F
MurderFS. Naah, I don't think that would work.
Doesn't Google have $$$ to burn now?
I wonder if he has an explanation for her blood drops in his house and on his Honda.
He's already taken the rest of his stuff.
Can they actually prosecute a homicide with no body?
What would happen if he were convicted, and then Ms. Reiser shows up?
How can you claim someone is guilty of murder before you have declared the
victim is dead? Or if the victim is dead, has life insurance been collected, for instance?
I really don't see how you can have "murder" without a body, remains of a body, or some specific claim as to how the body was disposed of.
On the other hand, I *can* see how you could justify holding such a suspect without bail, sort of.
He should, at a minimum, explain where the seat from his Honda can be found. Seems like that might clear up a few things. (They locate that seat, find it isn't covered with blood and bone fragments or whatever they expect to find... That sort of thing would be pretty embarrassing to the prosecution, I'd guess.)
Of course, if I were a betting man, my money would not exactly be riding on Hans' innocence. The car seat bothers me a lot. (The State of California is required to presume his innocence, but I am not, unless I happen to get called on his jury...)
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
I can only add one comment to what's already been said with a quick prayer:
Please not Microsoft Please not Microsoft Please not Microsoft Please not Microsoft Please not Microsoft
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Microsoft will buy the company destroy the products and merge them into Windoze.
Why do people still use Windoze? The feature set sucks and is good only for novices.
here comes the GoldenPalace.com file system
those guys will buy anything if it gets them a free bit of news/ pr
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
The IToldYouNotToBotherMeWhenImCodingBitch file system.
OJSystem
.
.
.
(for Open Journaled System, of course)
I'm collecting donations to buy reiserfs so I can release it under the GPL. Paypal me at mailto:slash@example.com!
http://outcampaign.org/
Lionel Hutz: Can you imagine what a world without lawyers would be like?
(Thought bubble with people from different cultures dancing around merrily in a circle while holding hands)
Lionel Huts: Uggggh.
I was thinking there was a REALLY bad-taste joke in there somewhere.
You know - If the vultures are circling, it's 'cos there's a corpse nearby.
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Or WiKiFiSy... Wife Killer File System.
Its especially interesting because hes supposed to be a smart guy. You'd think the last thing you want to do is purchase a book He's a smart guy allright.
When you want to do something you don't how to do, you find a book that tells you how to do it.
You can't take the sky from me...
Uh, I think he already is writing crappy murder mysteries. See above.
http://kerneltrap.org/node/793
http://kerneltrap.org/node/2761
http://kerneltrap.org/node/7211
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReiserFS
Not all conservatives are stupid,
but it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
- Hume
Now *you* mentioned it to those guys !
Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
uhm... as I really don't know how the fs is implemented, I think that reiserfs surely does black magic under my box but why does hans choose a medium for his own defense?!?
...I read topics of people having various non-eating related cookbooks in their homes on Slashdot, and each time this is referred to as "innocent reading material" (or something along those lines) rather than a prelude to terrorism - even though the police could view it in that way when someone is arrested on related charges.
The finding of this book (I'm not talking about other findings) and supposing any connection of this book to the murdering is therefore kind of not-Slashdot like : he could just have been generally interested in murder, perhaps a big CSI fan or something ?
It's supporting evidence at most.
Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
My Name is Harry Kunt. I'd like to buy your ReiserFS and call it Kunt. Please get back to me ASAP.
If I Did It FS
So I married a kernel programmer
I would prefer to read anonymously stuff on the local library or on the internet, and watching all seasons of all CSI and CSI-like shows. Anyone who has ever _watched_ them would think, for instance, that "it's not viable to properly clean a car that transported a dead/dying person" and arrange for its "theft" and set it on a (full of accelerant) fire. But murdering your ex-wife is never a smart thing to do anyway.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
If I were on the jury, I'd vote innocent even if I did think he killed her. (and I do think that)
She was NOT a good woman, by a long shot.
And only one moron who couldn't be warned by the subject line. Congratulations, you win!
What's the hof got to do with this? You'll be bringing kit into it next...
I think the GP employed something we know as "sarcasm".
If in order to defend yourself, you have to have a company and even sell it, then for all practical reasons there is no justice for the majority of people. I find this state of affairs troubling, and I was wandering if you could sue "justice". ie, the justice ministry for example.
GD
Won't change that all the mouthbreathers around here can't realize what a horrible file system Reiser4 is. And how Reiser3 isn't even that great anyway.
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. -- Harlan Ellison
The only online contact with Hans Reiser I ever had suggested to me that he is a very reasonable person, albeit firm in his convictions, he did not attack me nor tried "ad hominis" or any other fallacies, and he actually changed his mind about the subject of our conversation, adopting the same position I had to start with.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Not sure where Apple starts supporting it: in the server or the desktop version of Mac OS X. But the signs for ZFS support are clear.
... Among the few things that miss is builtin encryption, quotas (can be solved by "personal" filesystems) and online raid expansion. But in essence it's very cool. Most of the things that make TimeMachine look cool are built into ZFS. With the feature set of ZFS TimeMachine is not much more than a fancy GUI.
ZFS is vastly superior to ReiserFS 3/4, to ext2/3/4, to xfs, etc. It's fast, journalled, expandable on the fly, supports snapshots, checksums, redundancy,
Read more at wikipedia or here (How cool is that).
Bye egghat
-- "As a human being I claim the right to be widely inconsistent", John Peel
I dont think thats a troll, MS cant produce software for shit, they either buy it (and modify it crappily to no end), or hire up developers of competeing products and have them re-invent it.
MS failed to provide a file system, ReiserFS, however, is a reality, and can do prettymuch what MS advertised with WinFS. MS would be stupid not to take this opertunity to at least try to buy up a good file system, granted the first things they would to is remove compatibilty with it, so it would be totally propeitary, and no one could fork off the old GPLed sourced and be compatible with Windows or WinFS.
I dont think anyone could deny that this is a golden opertunity for MS.
Ironically, the hidden word is Plaque, god i hope MS dosent buy ReiserFS.
...I hope he uses the proceeds to hire a lawyer with more sense than to refer to potential buyers as "vultures" - what a moron.
Most people seem to think he is guilty but is he?
The Evidence so far isn't that great, assuming you as a third party wanted to and indeed did kill his wife wouldn't you want someone else to take the blame and he is the most likely suspect?
as the person with the body, you have the blood and can fill a syringe with it. you can buy the books the roll of bin liners and remove the seat- the assumption we are all making is that it was too blood stained to clean.
would she have got in his car anyway?
maybe the killing of his wife was to ruin him and his file system. Plenty of nutjobs here on slashdot, suppose one of them thought reiser had stolen his idea's what better revenge than this. Perhaps there are commercial reasons to want to bury reiserfs anyone still using it now? Linux users and developers won't use it now or defend gpl violations of reiserfs would they?
Of course he could have been rather clever about it and added the books as an over the top addition to the crime scene to lend credibilty to the third party defence. Is there DNA evidence that he ever opened the books?
It is not beyond believe that he could have manufactured evidence against himself to give credibility to this unknown third party defence.
I remember a similar situation where a man deliberately let himself be seen with a knife a few hours before killing his girlfriends exhusband. It wasn't that knife that he used but he knew he would be a suspect and figured that his knife wouldnt match the wounds on the other guy, he was convicted anyway.
How difficult is it to break into a honda? it isn't that difficult thats for sure.
Have you any doubt in your mind now of his guilt?
Perhaps a search of slashdot posts might reveal someone claiming reiser stole reiserfs, I don't know.
of course if he is guilty, he should be convicted but this is why there is a trial.
Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants
I was going to suggest 0xDEADBEEF, but this is better.
-- To dream a dream is grand, but to live it is divine. -- Leto ][
Hey, what about GatesFS? Don't blame me if he does that.
:wq
Is that many book and computer smart people are rather stupid when it comes to street smarts. Slashdot demonstrates that on a daily basis. Just because you have a high IQ/SAT scores doesn't mean you are very good at dealing with real world tasks, hence the stereotypical geek that has no social skills, can't cook, etc, etc. Also being smart can sometimes be a detriment because it leads to what I like to call Smartest Motherfucker in the Universe Syndrome. Many smart people are so used to being smarter than people they deal with on a general basis they start to get an ego about it. This leads to a general state of thinking that they are essentially smarter than almost anyone, that they have the answer for everything. Thus they believe if they have a solution to something, the solution is without flaw and they don't objectively evaluate it.
I haven't followed the case at all because frankly I just don't care, but this idea that "Oh he's a smart guy so he wouldn't have screwed up," is hopelessly naive. Even smart people make mistakes and especially many book smart people tend not to think real life things through.
If a body was required for murder, well hell it'd be rather easy to get away with murder wouldn't it? Just make sure the body was disposed of in a way such that it could be found and you'd never have to worry.
It's called a circumstantial case and while it's the weakest kind and not what the prosecution likes bringing, it can be successfully made. Basically you show that all the circumstances point to murder, and that there's not a reasonable alternate explanation.
Same kind of case they tried, and failed, to make against OJ Simpson.
It's actually more common than you'd think. Usually, in a case with direct evidence it never goes to trial. If the prosecution has the body, the bullet from it, the gun, and your fingerprints on the gun you almost certainly aren't getting out of that. However if the evidence is circumstantial, well then all you've got to do is convince one person in twelve that it is reasonable to doubt that you did it and you aren't going to jail.
One who cares what you think to mod it down one. Yesss a useful system
Does he sell his car too ? How much kilometers ?
Besides the grammar problems.. i use reiser 3.6 as my home partition's filesystem and although i'm not a power user
(i didn't nor i have investigated how to tweak the filesystem to squeeze the most out of it) i haven't any problem with it.
I don't think MS would be a good buyer for this technology (and as stated in some other comments, MS tend to prefer *stealing* the technology instead of buying it) both because they already have a fairly decent one (ntfs is _closed source_ but not _bad_) and because its PR like to let people think that they own the technology they sell, they always have and always will (i may be the average ignorant guy but i never heard of the companies that originally developed hyper terminal or MS anti-spyware before MS bought those).
My 0.2$
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
I think the GP employed something we know as "whooosh".
True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
If ReiserFS uses a magic value somewhere, I suggest it to be changed to 0xDEADBABE.
You and the people who modded that comment up just took bad taste to a new low....
If he had the body in the car, then why didnt he ditch it?
You forgot TubGirlFS
There is someting very strange about this indeed.
There is something not right about this.
It fits a pattern of things 'not right' that have ben happening for some time.
It is sad that only people with lots of money stand a decent chance of walking away free, either innocent or guilty. What a retarded justice system of yours.
Where is that guy who'd die defending what I had to say when I need him?
I wonder if one of the questions will be, "What operating system do you use?"
Hmm, a year or so ago at an old employer I implemented a 2TB fileserver using ReiserFS.. Whoops...
Deleted
Reisers attorney, according to TFA:
>'This is a unique opportunity for someone to buy the company for pennies on the dollar. We welcome all vultures.
"vultures"? Funny words from the vulture bleeding him in the first place.
1 in 4 Maine children in struggle with hunger.
0xBADTASTE is not a valid hexadecimal value, 0xDEADBABE is valid, it's 3735927486 in decimal.
Maybe Cowboy Neal should buy it. Then we could called it
Fat Wookie FS
Defending yourself in court is expensive, and I think the government depends on this fact to convict many of the cases they try. And God help you if you are depending on a public defense attorney in a captial murder charge.
Some people complain that rich people are treated differently under the law, but I suspect that what really happens is that they are rich enough to make the system work like it should.
And I will send you my 50 euro!
I hope a lot of people will do.
Make it NOW!|
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
First Post File System?
...vividly encapsulates that post-Watergate/pre-punk/coked-up moment when you could trust no one, least of all yourself.
When sentencing convicted felons, does the judge give them X amount of fines and X amount of felony court costs.
I'm not disagreeing (well, yes i guess I am) but I KNOW I've seen it done, in virtually every case where there was a conviction.
I'm pretty certain you're wrong about this one.
Why are so many posts with factual errors modded up?
Is this due to lazy journaling?
Or was he just waiting for GarbageCollection() to kick in?
I can, and I will. It would be disastrously negative PR to economically "support" a known suspected murderer.
I also note why this is done: Not to, if possible, support the jobs of the low wage Russians who worked for Namesys, but to support Hans Reiser's legal costs.
Merry Yuletide,
--
*Art
I wonder if he could claim it was just part of his current research activities into writing a HOW-TO for a successful murder?
:-)
Sure, there might be books, but what good are they to geeks? We need HOW-TOs
Wikileaks, no DNS
Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
I seriously think MS should support more than 1 filesystem (FAT32 is dieing). This 1 filesystem to rule them all business is terrible. Linux has not trouble offering tons of file systems that are supported. I see no reason why windows couldn't support at least 3 or 4. The fact that windows is used everywhere from the home desktop right up to the enterprise servers means that using a single file system just doesn't make sense.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
"own a filesystem and rename it after your own"
"The Annoymous Coward Filesystem" just doesn't have that ring to it.
ReiserFS, however, is a reality, and can do prettymuch what MS advertised with WinFS.
The whole point of WinFS is to extend the data orginization indexing and searching advantages of relational databases to your filesystem.
ReiserFS is a great journaling filesystem, but I don't believe it has anything to do with the concepts behind WinFS. I don't know how NTFS journaling compares to ReiserFS journaling, but NTFS does have journaling already.
I'd call it FUMS.
Dude, welcome to linux. Windows has One File System(tm) because... it's easier. Linux has 129 filesystems because 129 different people think each one is the best at what it does.
I love linux, but sometimes too much choice is a bad thing. If linux was a car, there'd be 18 steering wheels and no air conditioning, but you'd be able to change the radio stations from the hubcaps.
sig?
Huh??? I hate Microsoft and even I find that suggestion to be hollow. ReiserFS offers NOTHING that MS claimed WinFS would offer. Most specifically it isn't a DB backed file system as WinFS was supposed to be. ReiserFS also doesn't employ any method of storing metadata as MS promised WinFS would. Imagine not needing to use file extensions or know what sort of data is in a file... the file system would take care of that for you and automatically handle associations with applications without messy kludges like file extensions or MIME types. That's what MS promised and what they couldn't deliver. ReiserFS doesn't offer any of that either. It just offers a really high performance potentially 64-bit journalling FS with fast transaction replay. That's it.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
You're right, Linux shouldn't be supporting all those silly filesystems such as vfat hfs+ etc. Who do those windows and mac users think they are that they need to be able to get to their files from linux? Weirdos.
(note for the 'woosh' victims: sarcasm intentionally)
It would be cool if some sensible developers could get the money together, buy the company and Reiser4, and work with the kernel devs to get it made part of Linux.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Ok, I'm taking bets... 10 to 1 Google buys it.
-dh
No, just put Opus Dei guys as the murderers and you have a best seller
I don't kill my wife... like other people
I think that is how it is pronounced ;)
--I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
How stupid do they think we are?
Wouldn't be better to throw a letter titled "How I killed my wife" inside?
So instead of 15 year old car, he could be driving their small SUV, called Honda CRV.
You mean like NTFS?
Microsoft initially supported FAT16, then FAT32 in the 9x/ME series from 98 onwards. NT/2000/XP/Vista default to NTFS but have had the option for FAT16 or FAT32 partitions.
Now I've got that minor issue out of the way, for most home users what difference does having 3 filesystems make? For servers NTFS is solid (No, really) and if you absolutely need your server to do something which relies on a different filesystem, or even has the option to use one to gain a tiny performance increase, you won't be running Windows Server anyway.
How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
If Linux was a car.... You could open the hood, and change motor to what you like. You could change the steering wheel, and the pedals, and the seats, and the hood color.... etc... The windows wouldn't be electric so you know the hand crank would work every time, and not hang. The car would cost $20k and last 400k miles. It would work on any road. You would never have an accident.
Oh wait, that is a normal car....
If Windows was a car.... Your hood would be welded shut, and you couldn't work on the motor, much less change it out, the windows wouldn't work on voice command, but you could have the option of "Are you sure" before you roll up, or down the windows with a button. The Airbag would ask the same question as well. Your car would cost $300,000 and the motor would last 10k miles before you had to wipe it and reload the engine. Only the dealer could do this, and it would take 36 minutes, but would require a preliminary inspection that required the car to be flipped upside down, and the blue ray disk inserted. You would have to buy a new one to be compatible with the new roads every 5 years.
If MacOS were a car, you could do most of 1, but you would have to replace your car once every 2 years, but if you choose not to, then your radio stops working, but you will have the pleasure of knowing that although your car costs $50k, it will last 400k miles as well. (IE: A Volvo) Although you could get an extended warrenty for $2,390 a year called the AppleCar plan.
When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. - Jefferson
Question: what was the highest mountain in the world before Everest was discovered?
Answer: Everest was the highest. We just didn't know it yet.
People are not innocent before proven guilty. They are presumed innocent by the justice system until proven guilty. Before the proof, they may be guilty or innocent, and a trial doesn't change that. (In fact, trials never find anyone "innocent"; they only find people "not guilty", and the presumption of innocence does the rest.)
One might think OJ was guilty, but the justice system must presume he was innocent because he was not legally proven guilty.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
Settle down there little doobie.
ReiserFS 3.x supports extended attributes (metadata) and ReiserFS 4.x supports that in spades with all sorts of database-like possibilities.
As for filesystems joining data with executables at the hip, all I have to say is it sounds a lot like OLE, ActiveX, etc. and I shudder to think how it might be abused.
Is there an asking price? Or is this just "Best Offer"? The article doesn't mention anything about it.
I actually think it would be cool for the employees to buy most of the shares themselves. Mr. Reiser would get some money for his defense from the sale of his shares, but maybe he could retain some percentage as an income stream from the dividends (or sell some to a trusted friend). That way he wouldn't be totally ousted from his company.
I'm assuming that Namesys is incorporated, which I'm sure is a safe assumption.
Just a thought.
What was this guy thinking ? Is he BLIND ? Did he not realize that just about every brilliant hacker is single for a reason ?! Women, all women, are totally insane! There is ample empirical evidence that shows that only intellectually challenged men can endure extended female companionship.
As young girls, they are taught that girls are smart and boys are stupid. See when a clever fella gets a woman, at first all is rosy, but over time the woman gets comfortable and that's where the power struggles begin. First the man will turn down alcohol and sex, favoring long nights of caffeine and code. This spites the woman, who retaliates by offering the same alcohol and sex to an ugly-ass close friend of the hacker. As the nonsense altercations grow in frequency, the clever male begins to apply his vast intellect to find a solution. Possessing above-average intellect, he starts to believe he can get away with murder, since he is far smarter than the common police detective. Woman is ground using a beowulf cluster of noisy Celeron CPU fans, then buried in the chassis of a nearby AS/400 mainframe. Hacker assumes he is home free.
Cops show up, ask "Hey where's your wife". Hacker says "She's went to fuck my ugly-ass friend four weeks ago". Cops pool their collective IQ and ultimately decide something is amiss.
All this crap could have been avoided if the hacker had ordered a replacement wife from Bride.ru. Then he could have said "My wife is right here, NOT dead in a mainframe and NOT fucking my ugly-ass friend". The cops would have celebrated this non-event with coffee and donuts and ReiserFS would live on as a crappy-ass attention-whoring unsupported agenda-driving filesystem.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
I was talking ReiserFS3 as 4 hasn't even made it into the kernel. In fact I believe Hans was rebuffed by Linus as the latter didn't think that ReiseFS4 was really ready yet especially considering some of the things that would need to be changed in the mainline kernel to support these things. From what I remember, Linus suggested that a lot of that functionality could be implemented in Fuse and didn't belong in kernel space. So in my mind ReiserFS4 is a non-entity. At least until it makes it into the mainline kernel.
I notice you said, "database-like". That's not good enough. If we're talking WinFS (which was likely going to be based on MS SQL [shudder]) then to compete I want a DB that rides on MySQL or PostgreSQL or some kind of SQL db. It doesn't appear that ReiserFS4 is that at all. Having database-like qualities is not the same as actually being a DB based file system. If it's truly DB based you should be able to connect to the DB and issue SQL queries to work with file system objects at a low level (metadata, permissions, owner, group, extents, etc...). One thing I wish someone would do in kernel space file systems that I think is a HUGE ommision is a versioning feature like OpenVMS has. I know that Emacs can be configured to do that, but I think all files on the filesystem should have versions with a limit that you set (ie. keep the last five revisions, or keep multiple versions of files for a week, etc...). Again, if it was a DB backed file system, this would be totally possible and very likely easy to implement. I don't think something like ReiserFS4 could do that.
Don't misunderstand me, I use ResierFS3 when I need performance and I like it a whole lot more than ext3. But it's not what WinFS promised and ResierFS4 likely isn't either.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
Why not buy the company and change it to the "IfIDidItFS". You could have it spit out error codes like "I don't know if Hans did it, but I'd understand. (0x000ad322)"
He can't be new here, he misspelled "lose" and put it in caps.
What self-respecting geek has bookends?
The proper care and feeding of reading (Hey! That rhymes) material is stacked on a nearby flat surface in reverse chronological sequence of acquisition.
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
Yes, you are right. Aside from FAT, FAT32, NTFS, CDFS, and UDFS, Windows is sorely lacking for on-disk storage formats. Plus, MS only supports SMB, NFS, and WebDAV as network filesystems.
MS really needs to start adding support for filesystems that only 1% of their users will have ever heard of as a means to increase choice and decrease reliability.
I currently have 15 filesystem drivers installed on my XP system, and I don't even have NFS installed.
dom
Actually, it's because different filesystems are better suited for different tasks. One size does *not* fit all - that's an incredibly narrow-minded (and uneducated) statement. For example, if I was running a webserver with tons of tiny little web pages and scripts, it makes more sense to use ReiserFS than, say, ext3. Besides, why would I want air conditioning if I could put the Windows down (pun intended) and get fresh air without the AC sucking up gas mileage?
My friend, you are a genius.
I am a possible murderer.
You, the poster of the misfortuned parent comment, is too a possible murderer.
Hans' wife (is she alive and laughing now?) is/was a possible murderer.
It was tasteless, we agree. But why mod it funny? Please, enlighten me.
No, Linux has several file systems because there's no such thing as a perfect file system, and even if there were, it hasn't been achieved yet.
Each of the file systems out there has different strengths and weaknesses. If you need maximum reliability, you need a fully journaled file system (data and metadata), but you pay for that reliability in terms of performance. In most cases, you don't need that, but it is important that your file system not become corrupted by a power failure, or similar problem. For those, metadata journaling is enough. In yet other cases, raw speed is the goal, so journaling is a bad idea.
But speed vs. reliability is only one issue to consider. Another is space efficiency, particularly for systems that will have large numbers of small files. Most file systems use one disk block (e.g. 1KB) even for a 100-byte file. Others (like reiserfs) can pack small files together. But that efficiency introduces complexity, which can reduce reliability. So space efficiency vs. reliability is a consideration.
Another tradeoff is read performance vs. write performance. Yet another is performance of small files vs performance of large files. Yet another is reconfigurability -- can file systems be grown or shrunk in-place, perhaps even while in use? That's another tradeoff against complexity and the associated reduced reliability.
For the desktop user, it doesn't really matter. You'll notice little difference regardless of which file system you choose. But there are applications in which the choice of file system can make a significant difference in system performance, space efficiency, reliability, or flexibility.
Windows has One File System(tm) because... it's easier.No, Windows has one file system because Microsoft has never focused on technical excellence. Mediocrity is often an excellent business strategy, and it has certainly proven to be good to Microsoft, but that doesn't mean we can't have better.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
What's that suppose to mean?
Why on Whoever's green earth would you mod some fucking moron who does not even know that NTFS is available as +5 Interesting?!? You need to go back to fucking "How to read and Mod" school!!
"My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
Yeah, you're right. FAT32 is dying. That's why XP and newer essentially defaults to (or at least strongly recommends) NTFS. (The 2GB file size limit with FAT32 is one of the many reasons for this.)
;-) It'd be like chiding them for FAT16... which is actually dead to my knowledge.
If you're going to fault Microsoft for backing an dying format, at least pick the one they're currently using.
"Linux has 129 filesystems because 129 different people think each one is the best at what it does."
Yeah but only a relative handful of those 129 are right for 99.99% of the users out there. Let's count: For booting uncompressed hard drives, there are ext2/3, vfat-and-friends, rieserfs, and few others in common use, at least on the x86 platform. For compressed filesystems and optical drives there are a few others. For non-booting partitions add filesystems native to other OSes, such as filesystems commonly used by Windows, Mac, and various Unix flavors. That covers 99-99.9% of the people out there.
Data-recovery specialists, people accessing legacy data, people running classic emulators, and curious hobbyists may need filesystems or at least data-access tools for older OSes. People running very-high-end or non-x86 equipment may need FSs to match the native OSes of those platforms. Embedded users may need a particularly space-efficient FS. That covers almost everyone else.
You CAN get third-party support for other filesystems in Windows. If you pay MS a chunk of change, you can even write your own FS. It's just that it's difficult or impossible to get Windows to boot from any FS not supported my Microsoft, e.g. FAT/FAT32, NTFS, or standard CD/DVD filesystems.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Yes, sometimes file system types can make a performance difference. Using ReiserFS is going to help out when you're doing stuff with lots of little files, yes. How much? I dunno. Will most people be happy with ext3? Yes, absolutely. ext3 will do pretty much everything you need it to do. However, when you choose a filesystem type in the fdisk menu on linux, there are literally this many: I'm not saying there aren't holes in my arguement, but... it's hard to deny that's a crapoload of filesystem types. Now, it's not Linux's fault (or GNU or whoever wrote fdisk) that there are that many options.
But this is a symptom of a greater problem in Linux - it's desire to be every thing to every one. And not in a "get on my bandwagon or get the fuck out" type scenario, like you have with Windows - but a location for everyone to dump any pet project that they have ever made, and eventually we have 43 window managers, 2 Xservers, 18 mail dameons, 97 web browsers, 9 different sets of wireless networking tools (none of which work for more than 3 chipsets), 812 shells, 14 IM clients, 84 Mp3 players, and four office suites. Boy, if you like choice, linux is the place to be. But, some of us find it a bit overwhelming at times (mainly, when "some of us" have to do desktop support for linux).
I can't help but wonder if all the people who are working on different, paralell projects pooled their efforts where Linux would be today.
And as I've been saying for 4 or 5 years now on Slashdot, all I ever wanted out of linux was a universal clipboard with a universal API for cutting and pasting. We now have windows that wobble with hardware accelerated graphics (FC6). Great. I'd like to be able to cut and paste.
~Wx
sig?
Why has nobody pointed out that Windows supports more then one files system? Sure NTFS is the standard and then who the hell knows what they did to it in Vista but Windows also reads FAT32 and FAT16 file systems. In fact almost all external hard drives are formated and partitioned on FAT32.
I love your comment. It's small and really to the point of the state of Linux and the community in general. I personally enjoy the GNU/Linux ecosystem but there are too many choices sometimes. It seems as if the trend is to start a new project/distro/fork whenever someone believes that they could make something better, faster, slimmer, etc... Don't get me wrong, I love the amount of choices but I would rather see more consolidation of efforts. Instead of making a new distro with minor changes/patches, contribute to a major one... etc... Sometimes it's as we are going in circles.
No body has been found to date.
We have always been at war with Eurasia!
Do you REMEMBER how many networking stacks were available for Windows before Windows95 came with TCP/IP?
Do you KNOW how much shareware is available for Windows? How much crap-ware?
The only benefit any of it has is having pretty WYSIWYG installers.
-Chris
Pick any common English given name for the bad guy except Bill
Ok great... I'll use Steve!
Reason #32767 not to use VB6: Integers are 2 bytes... Think about it!
I'm pretty sure that if I was Reiser I wouldn't want my case to be compared to OJ's. OJ is pretty much taken as a wife murdered who got away with it. He would have been convicted if (1) he wasn't black, (2) he wasn't a celebrity, or (3) they had filed the case in Santa Monica versus L.A. (where due to Rodney King, no predominantly black jury would convicted him).
Again, look at the cast of characters from the OJ trial. Most of the high profile cops were no longer on the force within 2 years. Marcia Clark is no longer with the D.A.'s office. A lot of careers were destroyed because of high profile incompetence. (Whereas with low profile incompetence they could have stayed on for years.)
By the way, I like the theory of "the wife did it to frame him and she's really living it up south of the border" theory. Sounds like grasping at straws, but could muddy the waters enough for "reasonable doubt".
Linux does support a lot of file systems. About a third of them are for compatibility with other systems, a third are because the steering wheel from an 18-wheel semi-truck is hard to handle when mounted in a Honda, and the last third are research and development.
That said, you do know there is a difference between a file system and a partition, right? Your list above from fdisk only shows partition types, not file systems. Linux uses two partition types, 82 (swap) and 83 (Linux). The majority of the rest are to maintain compatibility with Windows, OS/2, Sun, BSD, and other systems.
The nice thing about GNU/Linux is that when someone tells you to "get on my bandwagon or get the fuck out", you can get out and still obtain the functionality you need. It's like having icing with your cake.
Request a Linux Shockwave player here: http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/
Why hasn't Hans started a defense fund and accepted donations?
It worked for Zimmermann.
Isn't it sad to live in a country whre you have to pay your lawyer in case you are accused of murder?
What happends if his lawyer quits because he can't pay him anymore? Automatically guilty?
angel'o'sphere
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
First of all, Windows supports more than one filesystem from Microsoft alone, those being FAT and NTFS. Second, adding support for other filesystems isn't hard; just like Linux all one has to do is install the software.
Antitrust anyone?
IANAL... But I play one on
Jack Klugman (Quincy) is the only one still alive.
This is true, but only superficially. It is not like Linux "has" 129 filesystems, but it ***supports*** a lot of different file systems. So weather you want to access your NTFS windows partition or HFS MacOS disc you can do it. More or less every distribution out there will format your partitions as ext3 at install time by default. Windows on the other hand only supports two filesystems (not One File System) which are FAT32 and NTFS. So if I have a disk from my friend's iMac or linux box or solaris server or IRIX workstation or basically anything except windows, I will not be able to read it in windows whatever I do.
Everybody Lies. But it doesn't matter since nobody listens.
there's no such thing as a perfect file system
XFS
/me ducks!
Slashdot = -1 Redundant, Asperger, kdawson FUD, Libertarian, and Linux
>> Windows has One File System(tm) because... it's easier.
> No, Windows has one file system because Microsoft has never focused on technical excellence.
> Mediocrity is often an excellent business strategy, and it has certainly proven to be good to
> Microsoft, but that doesn't mean we can't have better.
Are you saying Mediocrity isn't easy? I've been busting my hump just trying to get by when there's an even easier way out? It hurts to find out you're not as lazy as you thought. But anyway...
I thought windows had Fat16, Fat32 and NTFS for filesystems BTW? I bet multiple filesystems requiring different drivers in windows would cause some issues for all the non-computer-savvy users out there when switching disks and devices.
If I had the money.. I would buy it and call it KillerFS!
heh, maybe Hans was in deals to sell it to MS (WinFS), but his concience ate away at him, and he ultimately refused. In return, they killed his wife, and now they get their FS on the CHEAP!
How could you miss it. It's so *obvious*.
Hans didn't kill his wife...STEVE BALLMER DID!
omg--I said too muc**CHAIR!!**
There's no place like
I can see Microsoft driving people to drink, but to murder? Suicide, most definitely.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
but I would give 2k for it, but thats all i have. if i was rich, i would give more. lol
SimonTek
Same place as the HURD, I bet :)
Having parallel projects makes it possible for the good ones to flourish and the bad ones to die off. If there's a single, unified project, and it gets stuck for any reason, then the whole movement is stuck.
(I'm here all week, etc.)
Why not? Bill is writing crappy software.
Oh, wait, he doesn't write software anymore - he just does charity work...uh, huh, that's it.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
you mean 'installed' or 'created'?
There has not been any report of Hans being seen by a psychiatrist. In California, does the prosecution not have to demonstrate that a person is not insane as part of the preliminary trial? There would seem to me to be ample evidence to indicate that the question should at least be asked. There is a difference between being left to rot in prison possibly on Death Row, effectively in solitary confinement, perhaps for decades, and being hospitalised in an institution for the criminally insane. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A304228
On the surface, going from press reports on the 'Net about what has happened, there would appear to be sufficient motivation and opportunity for Hans to have been framed by a demonstrably vindictive ex-spouse. So far, and imho there has now been sufficient time to find her, a body has not been discovered. Has this possibility even been examined by the legal profession?
Why is Hans having to find money? Does the State of California not have a legal aid fund? Although it is in direct contradiction of Magna Carta, upon which all Common Law is based, it would appear that Californian Justice is a commodity which is for sale!
I could go on and on, but that's enough for now.
maybe Hans was in deals to sell it to MS
Sounds plausible. After all, Microsoft and ReiserFS have similar track records in the "reliability" category...
Known suspected murder? Isn't that an oxymoron?
The lawyers are suggesting that someone may wish to buy Hans' business because the legal bills are too much and his lawyers are saying that whoever buys it would be a vulture? No doubt the lawyers are working the case pro bono NOT!
The jury isn't the issue. The judge, who gets to choose what evidence in admissible, and who can throw out the case before it goes to trial, and who can throw out jury, and who can throw out the jury's decision, is the weak point when it comes to convicting someone politically powerful.
Now judges have a certain degree of independence from the influence of the executive and legislative branch according to the constitution, but the legislative and executive branch are not *fond* of this independence (notice all of the whining about "activist judges" whenever a judge does something a politician doesn't like), but the other branches have had a long time to figure out ways around this. Ultimately, judges are either appointed or elected. If they are elected, then they need external money and political support. If they are appointed, then that gives the other branches an opportunity to hand pick people who are likely to take orders. Thankfully on the national level (when it's devided between dems and republicans) this doesn't happen as much, since the congress tends not to trust judges who are too cozy with the opposing party, and relatively independent people are liked best.
the file system would take care of that for you and automatically handle associations with applications without messy kludges like file extensions or MIME types
It exactly this kind of perspective that causes me to absolutely hate Microsoft products: the OS knows better than I do as to what I want to do with a file.
Doesn't it stand to reason that if 'WinFS' was going to handle MIME data for me that it would also limit me as to what choice I would have concerning which program I could open a file with? Microsoft already loves to lock you into programs when it, at least currently, asks you which program you want use to open such-and-such file and then, by default, checks the 'Always use this program for this file type (blah-blah-blah)'. (Disclaimer: this is fine for convenience and it would seem to work better for the n00b, but what if the n00b is wrong about which file they choose and then don't know where to change the association, let alone don't know it called an 'association', etc. etc.?).
Ultimately, I get really tired of WinXXX treating like a fool. So, to help combat it, I like to name my text files with no extension. I wonder how WinFS would efficiently handle that? What if I did that to my binary packet sniffs?
>>Windows has One File System(tm) because... it's easier.
...
...
>No, Windows has one file system because
FAT12, FAT16, FAT32, NTFS, CDFS, UDF, EFS.
Windows has seven file systems because
*THAT*, sir, is an excellent point, and one that I hadn't thought of. I bow to your cynical-yet-probably-true powers of reasoning.
Sigh, sometimes I wish I would never post on here.
sig?
>They're phasing out the old crappy (fat), standardizing on the current (ntfs), and (in theory) looking forward (winFS).
Bearing in mind that WinFS was not a file-system. The acronym was "Windows Future Storage". The filesystem was still NTFS; WinFS added a database layer on top of it that added a few services. Think "Registry 2.0".
Well this is totally off topic but a while back I had an idea for the free/open source community to build a system based on DNS that would contain information about filetypes and applications that can handle them. This would be an open/free project that would have to run in a similar way to DNS and there would have to be a filetype resolver in the OS distribution that would query this name system when it encounters an application that doesn't have a current association. It could even be extended to work just like DNS, where organizations or home users who run servers at home (like me) could even hav e local versions that would contain custom entries that take precedence over the "root servers". The main idea being that when someone attempts to open a non-associated filetype, they would get a prompt that would list the applications known to handle the filetype with links (where possible) to install the application from the net using any of the popular package managers if the app isn't present. Mainly this is in an effort to make the distros easier to use for non-technical people or... technical folks who are lazy and don't want to bother with downloading or associating the apps themselves (they exist although I'm not one of them). Anyway, your comment made me think about this again...
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
First, EFS isn't a file system, it's a feature of NTFS. CDFS and UDF are file systems, but they're only supported by Windows because they're a standard established by others. Microsoft's (past) support for HPFS falls into the same category. Further, I'd exclude them from the count because they're special-purpose file systems. You can't use them on your hard drive for example (unlike Linux, where you could use CDFS or UDF on a disk partition, though you wouldn't really want to).
As for FAT12, FAT16, and FAT32, those are all essentially the same file system, with small, incremental improvements to work around severe limitations in the earlier versions.
What does that leave? Windows has two file systems: FAT and NTFS. The file system they started with, and patched a few times as its weaknesses became unbearable, and the new file system they created for NT, and onto which they've grafted a few additional features (e.g. EFS).
Note that NTFS is a pretty decent file system, offering reasonable performance and good reliablility. There's nothing wrong with NTFS, but it's a one size fits all approach. Indeed, I'd agree that one size does fit nearly all. Linux, however, gives you options to address those exceptional situations where the default FS is less than idea.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
The fact that one must offload their own business that they built up, just to defend themselves?! What a joke. Guilty or not-guilty, it is another example of an individual getting destroyed by the system.
PHOENIX, ARIZONA 25 December 2006
angrykeyboarder enterprises, d/b/a: angrykeyboarder and angrykeyboarder.com announced today it's intent to purchase the assets of Namesys, including the ReiserFS (a/k/a: Reiser3) and Reiser4 filesystems often used with Linux.
ReiserFS (a/k/a: Reiser3) will be re-branded "angryFS" while Reiser4 will be re-branded "KillaFS".
More details to follow in January 2007.
FORWARD LOOKING STATEMENTS
This press release contains forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties, including statements relating to the growth of our business. Actual results may differ materially from our expected results. Factors that could cause actual results to differ from our expectations include competition, our ability to continue to attract users to a "tainted" business, general economic conditions and those economic conditions specific to the The Free Software/Open Source Community, our ability to innovate and improve monetization, and the growth of the market for infamous filesystems. More information about potential risk factors is not included in our report on Form 10-Q when we do not and never will file with the SEC.
Scott
©20014 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved
That's a great idea who's time might come. Especially if application extensions continue to proliferate.
My point is about the importance of the word "presumed". This whole "shades of gray" business has no bearing.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
OH god I'm glad I don't live in whatever world you live in.