Slashdot Mirror
How One Small Business Switched to Ubuntu
firenurse writes to point out a story in The Inquirer about how one small business switched to Ubuntu. It describes a maddening comedy of errors, a series of circular screw-ups among Microsoft, HP, and a RAID vendor. From the article: "You never quite wrap your head around how anti-consumer Microsoft's policies are until they bite you in the bum. Add in the customer antagonistic policies of its patsies, HP in this case, and vendors like Promise, and you have quite a recipe for pain. Guess what I did today?"
Actually, that story sounds (ironically) like my attempt to switch to Ubuntu.
..." What part of "cannot load an OS" did you not get?
..." See previous.
..." Doesn't show up. "Okay, go to this other one and type this command." It takes a while to execute and than fails with this message: [message]. "..."
Download install CD. Burn it. Boot from it. Install. "Using GRUB as your bootloader is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED". Okay, use GRUB.
Boot up. Cannot load an OS. Grub error 1.5.
Okay, re-install.
Boot up. Cannot load an OS. Grub error 1.5.
Reinstall a few more times.
Boot up. Cannot load an OS. Grub error 1.5.
Okay, box is bricked. Luckily I have a computer from work and I go ask for help on forums.
"Re-install." Already tried that, kid. Several times.
"Your install CD wasn't downloaded properly." Except for the bit-by-bit comparison I ran before starting.
"Go into the Ubuntu OS and
"Use a Live CD." Don't have one. "You mean you didn't burn that along with the install CD?" Didn't say to. "You mean you didn't try the install on a spare box first?" You're fucking kidding me, right? (This was before they combined them, geniuses.)
"Burn a Live CD." Don't have a burner. "You burned the install CD, how can you not burn a Live?" 'Cause I'm posting from a different computer, moron. First one's bricked, remember?
"You need Knoppix. Burn
"Okay, navigate the install CD from the installation interface, go to this location
"What version of Windows do you have?" Does that really matter when I can't load any OS at all? "Well, if you're gonna be like that, we don't need you using Ubuntu."
"Okay, get your Windows CD." Computer's four years old and I've never had to use it. I really don't know where it is. "Oh, well, we don't help software pirates here. ~Sig~ Need to run DVD's on Linux? Go here. ~Sig~" Sigh...
"Well, obviously you have a hard drive problem. Not Ubuntu's fault, it just happens."
*Gets brother to fix entire mess.*
*Has been using "problematic hard drive" on Windows without any problem for a year.*
*bangs head into keyboard*
*understands why people don't switch to Linux*
*kisses karma goodbye*
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
I imagine going the Linux route as a smaller business or individual is going to help a lot -- you have tons of free forums and enthusiasts to help you. In working at companies that used MS heavily, I can see a pattern--the bigger you are, the better service you get. For example, a huge computer chips manufacturer I worked at had several of their employees *on site* at Microsoft. A university I worked at - paying about $250,000/year for a site-wide software license - got less help, but still had inside contacts at Microsoft. And then you've got small/new businesses who may get an email a couple weeks later, if they're lucky.
"Guess what I did today?"
Jumped off a cliff?
Then drop your pants and grab your ankles.
Is that a secret code that gets you modded up on Slashdot?
Let me preface this by saying I ran almost every testing final release of Fedora. A couple of days ago I was trying to get Slash running on Core 6. A friend of mine said I should really try Ubuntu. We were on IRC, so i couldn't actually hear the tone of his voice, but it seemed to me be a pretty strong emphasis. Like "Try Ubuntu you idiot." :).. Well I did. I went and grabbed the 6.0.6 Dapper Server release. The install was painless. Once I was running there were several things I needed in order build stuff. Namely, build-essential, and things like that. Also Cpan was lets just say, interesting to get right, but it always is.
So anyway. It took 3 minutes to get an apache 3.x series server with mod_perl up. Mysql was a breeze. Once the server was up, I decided to build scoop, just to get better. This is the first thing I had ever tried to build as far as a fairly powerful weblog product. The result? It works! If you doubt me, just click on my url. Now, i was just building scoop to learn. Not really gonna use it I don't think.
The point is, Ubuntu rocks, and the longer term support from 6.0.6 is what I need if im gonna be doing some development. And the kernel aint half bad either. :P
That would have been disappointing even if you got it working.
I get paid by the hour, if you need me.
The latest Slashdot meme.
Big name vendor + non-supported hardware. Any system consultant with a few years of experience should be able to tell you "don't do that".
Actually the guy in the article didn't know what he was doing and tries to blame Microsoft and HP for the mess that his lack of knowledge created.
If he had done this for even once in the past, he would have known what would happen. Very nice of him to practice with his clients' systems.
I joined two users too late.
Seeing several errors, I wonder about this article on top of the unprofessional attitude.
*Microsoft has a policy where the vendors can't ship you a Windows CD so instead they have to send you a series of restore CDs.
-Never heard of this happening. I think he means HP restore CDs
*The #*(&$ers at HP made it so the brain dead restore scripts would not see any hardware other than the parts they shipped, and it would not recognise the Promise controller.
-That's a driver issue. No drivers, no access to weird/different hardware.
*If you have a copy of XP to use, guess what? The key that comes with the HP box is restricted to the version of Windows on the restore CD.
- Yes, that's called a OEM key. They also have VLKs and Retail keys. Don't pirate.
*That is when I learned half of the problems with Promise, the CD it provides is not bootable and contains nothing resembling a tool.
-Nothing to do with FOSS/MS. I don't think he does this once a week. If so, this is new hardware and it's new to him. Not MS's problem.
So this tech can't get Windows to work, installs Ubuntu, and tells the customer "Tada".
Excuse me!!! We have unneeded licenses, an incompetent tech and hours of wasted install time due to the previous mentioned items.
Fire this guy. Decide if Ubuntu works, if so, great, get your money back from the licenses, and if not then get a competent tech in there.
Microsoft lost this chain for sure on the server side. If it doesn't think their brain dead policies are costing them money, I am proof positive that they are
Unless he somehow wrangled a refund out of HP for the copy of XP he didn't use, then Microsoft still got paid, thus their "braindead policy" isn't costing them a nickel. They're just making money on a copy of Windows they don't need to support.
On the one hand this guy describes the branch office as "no big deal, done it a thousand times before", then proceeds to use a desktop machine with a 3rd party RAID as a server running XP and is surprised when it didn't work? That's what I don't really get about this article.
I like music
I would have recommended this. I used the free version to go from a PATA to a SATA.
a) Rebooting and reinstalling will only fix it if you made a mistake or you are using a poorly designed flaky OS. If it doesn't work the first time, why would it work a second?
b) Last time I checked, Ubuntu doubled as a live CD. In fact, how are you installing Ubuntu if you can't boot the CD?
c) Official GNU projects have the same poor code quality as MS. Stallman's goal is to take over the world, not produce a workable system. Don't use GRUB if you can avoid it.
d) This is a MS / commercial vendor problem. If you don't like copy protection and people accusing you of being a "pirate" even when you perchased a legit version of their software, then don't use their products. Especially if you are always losing the origional CD.
e) This is what you should have done in the first place. Someone who doesn't understand how computers work should not try to install an OS.
Most of us have had problems installing systems on random hardware. The point was that the author didn't have the resources to solve his problems because the suppliers didn't provide them. In fact, they bent over backwards to make sure he couldn't even use another copy of XP. He points out that such policies are customer antagonistic. I agree. It makes it hard to implement anything other than a turnkey solution.
... I gave up on the onboard raid controller).
With Linux, you may have the opposite problem. If you are smart enough, you can use all the resources you find on the web to solve your problem. My problem is that I'm not smart enough. I just installed Linux on a random collection of 'attic ware'. No way could I get the video card to work properly with Suse 10.0. On the other hand, everything went smoothly with Ubuntu (sort of
That's it, blame HP and Microsoft for your own incompetance.
``You never quite wrap your head around how anti-consumer Microsoft's policies...''
;-)
Wait, now it's _Microsoft_ who has anti-consumer policies, not Linux? Did the world turn upside down while I was partying may ass off? Could this be the year of Linux on the desktop?
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Looks like the poster had a 'real' Windows CD, but the license key he was trying to use was for the brain dead OEM version. Been there, done that. The trick is to transform a real CD into what HP (and all the other hardware vendors) should be including - a Windows install CD that works with the key on the sticker.
So look at the 'pre-installed' media, find the c:\i386\setupp.ini file that should be on the HDD. Build yourself a Windows install CD using NLite (because you should also trim th fat as long as you are going to be in there, along with adding drivers, security patches, etc) from some other source. Replace the setupp.ini file and it will use the OEM key. This won't turn an OEM version into an activation free volume version, but you can go the other way.
Did I mention nlite lets you add drivers to the install media? (grin) A must for those who have SATA drives.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Ok. The guy bought a bunch of desktops. He then changed out some key hardware, and then expected the vendors to support this configuration seamlessly. His solution was to just move to something he felt was easier for him than actually looking into the right way to do things for his customer. Some other configurations which would have worked come to mind. Mirrored external Firewire/USB RAID. An inexpensive NAS device w/ built in file/print sharing (which unlike XP is licensed for being used as a server). Or God Forbid, a low end server with Microsoft Small Business server. It sounds like from his standpoint, which is that of a Linux admin/hack that this is a great solution. Hopefully the owner and end users at the branch office are comfortable with this and never need to run any Windows applications to do things like run their business.
First of all, its called using the right tool for the right job. When you buy an OEM desktop you get OEM windows, you *CAN* buy the CD for an extra 10-20 bucks with most places and if you register as a reseller you can get much more. (If you're a microsoft partner you can just sell another license through your partner advantage program and use your own cd's/media for install) (free to join program). Finding Media is probably the easiest job of any techie.
Secondly, don't use Windows XP to be a server. It really isn't much more and sometimes cheaper to get a system pre-installed with SBS 2003 R2 and you get Exchange and other features built in not to mention a true comparison against Linux resource/functionality wise.
Terribly inaccurate and to say the least a very inept technician and company at work here.
My biggest selling "managed service" for small/medium sized businesses isn't my linux solution but my sbs 2003 r2 solution because for most people it not only saves money but provides tons of features from easy to configure remote access to sharing in sharepoint to cenralized ad administration/logins/access restrictions to built in exchange and with the advanced version sql server access.
I would never sell someone a desktop as a server solution simply because your selling yourself short. If cost savings was an issue buy a refurb server system and put whatever linux you want on it.
I have been bitten by every single problem mentioned in that article. Bad OEM "revogery disks" and MS licensing restrictions that prevent one from using an alternative install disks are one of the biggest single problems facing those of us that support very small businesses professionally. Say what you want about Dell... at least they include real windows install disks.
However, I have to question the judgement of the author. First of all, what kind of consultant deploys branch offices "weekly" and didn't know about these problems in advance? Anyone with much experience would know about (a) how difficult it is to move windows from one storage subsystem to another, (b) that HP uses bad recovery disks, and (c) that RAID installs require a floppy.
In addition, I question the use of Linux in this situation... perhaps it was his only way out of a bad recommendation to a client, but the problem is that there are *very* few Linux-savv consultants servicing businesses this size. For this reason alone I don't deploy Linux solutions... I can't find subcontractors who can back me up when I'm on vacation or sick, and should I stop working with a client, I don't want to leave them high and dry. Most consultants I know replace Linux servers with windows because they simply can't support it.
Finally, there's a much better way to do what he's trying to do: a NAS appliance. If all you need is some shared storage, printer sharing and the occasional backup, one of the many small business NAS devices out there (Infrant, Snap / Adaptec, Buffalo, etc...) will do so with greater reliability and less complexity than a PC-based server.
-R
Thank goodness it's all so easy with Windows! Seriously, WTF? Is this sort of crap standard with Windows?
Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
I've had soooo many problems with systems that only came with the 2000/XP "recovery" CDs
Did Microsoft really think that by not shipping the full version of the system that they were going to cut down on piracy?
You now, this guy was modded troll, but his (obviously erroneous) comments are pretty much par for the course in terms of what posters say about my exerpeience. So, I'll respond anyway.
a) Rebooting and reinstalling will only fix it if you made a mistake or you are using a poorly designed flaky OS. If it doesn't work the first time, why would it work a second?
True; I just wanted to do my due diligence before asking for help. I mean, it didn't work. In my first post I was very clear about having re-installed multiple times; that didn't stop anyone from recommending it. Go fig.
b) Last time I checked, Ubuntu doubled as a live CD.
So, like every wise guy that offered help, you failed to read the part where I said I did this at a time before they combined them.
In fact, how are you installing Ubuntu if you can't boot the CD?
I can't boot the OS. I can of course tell it to boot from the CD, which gives me the installation screen.
Don't use GRUB if you can avoid it.
I agree with you here. I just wish the install instructions were as wise.
d) This is a MS / commercial vendor problem.
mmm, no, they were asking for that to have bootable media, not because of any problem related to Windows. Remember, nothing can get past GRUB. If it can't even get to Windows, how can Windows be the problem?
e) This is what you should have done in the first place. Someone who doesn't understand how computers work should not try to install an OS.
I can understand the install instructions. In fact, it was *because* I followed them that I had the problem. Ubuntu doesn't specify an expansive knowledge of OS's you need in order to install it. If you're right, the mystery of why more people don't use Linux is over. Think about it.
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
The article says that you will not receive neither XP installation disk nor a valid XP Product Key. All HP hardware that I have been using have had a rescue CD set, vanilla XP installation CD (although, the CD has HP label) and a Product Key sticker glued to the machine. The Key works with the installation CD, but the activation process has to be done over the phone.
This is the situation in Finland. Does HP have different policies in other countries? I'm just curious to know if there just are different policies in different countries or is this some completely new policy that HP started using just recently?
The title of this article suggests he switched all the computers over to Ubuntu when really he just installed it on the RAID server. This seems like it would be very common for small networks.
Personally, I have a UNIX box running file and printer sharing for a few windows computers. No one would ever know I didn't run windows on the server unless I told them. No one who works in the office is going to know he is using Linux or care, they will see XP on their desktops and life goes on. IMO the only way this "story" would come close to qualifying as a story is if his workstations all ran Ubuntu.
Could this be the year of Linux on the desktop?
It certainly was for me. Again.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
Ok who else doesn't believe the line: "It started out quite simply, a client needed to set up a small branch office, something I do almost every week.", from the article?
I have been a consultant (my own business) working exclsuively with small bussiness for quite some time & before I ever started doign that I'd have told him he was a frickin' moron. HP doesn't support other hardware on their _restore_ CD's, well friggin' DUH! Hey moron how can you not know this if you 'a client needed to set up a small branch office, something I do almost every week'. If you had you'd know this already and wouldn't have screwed with the HP disks at all & would know you need a real OS disk.
After that you blame Promise's CD... Yet lots of vendors do that... Hell lots of motherboard vendors do that! It's why I have a LS120 drive I use that is never installed in systems, but lets me get stuff loaded at that fun part of the install where I have to have a 'floppy type device' to load anything...
Really two things come to mind that sum up the solution to his whole problem: Either convince HP to customize a machine to your needs (and keep their support which you btw killed when modifying their box anyways and is the only real reason to buy from a OEM vendor anyways) or Build the darn box yourself so you can customize it as you want with a real OS CD! Problem solved.
It may be nice Linux 'solved' your problem, but your problem was caused by you for not already knowing what you were walking into.
we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
Ok,
1) I see your point. Coming from your perspective you've been betrayed by GRUB and Ubuntu. I've had problems with GRUB in the past myself, and until recently have been a staunch supporter of LILO. Have you by chance tried picking that instead to see if it gives you better luck? Occasionally machines have firmware configurations or drive topology that GRUB still just doesn't seem to like. Its far more rare these days but still completely possible. Keep in mind you ARE using an operating system that was not pre-tested and pre-installed for the machine you're using. Unforseen complications can arise.
2) I'm only making a guess but it really *does* sound like you might have a bad harddrive. If the boot sector failed it really could have been working fine with windows for years until you tried to write something new to it, exposing the hardware failure by corrupting otherwise accessible data in the master boot record with a failed write. One way to check this would be to try re-installing windows of course, or any other distro/operating system.
3) I don't like Ubuntu either because its failed me the only two times I've tried it as well. Perhaps your machine is a "fringe case" like mine was. Issues and workarounds (or at least confirmation of non-working status) based on your motherboard's IDE/SCSI/SATA harddrive controller could exist online.
Anyway... Thats all the advice I have for you. I wish you luck.
The business didn't "switch to Ubuntu". That phrase implies that they suddenly stopped using any Windows systems. In fact, they made the much smaller step of converting their servers to Ubuntu. Linux has always been a much easier sell in serverland, because on servers you don't have all the application lock-in that makes it hard to get end users to give up Windows.
At one time, my boss was as wedded to Microsoft as they come, mainly because that was all he knew. Over time, that view changed mainly because of the hoops we had to jump through as a small IT business doing things for SMBs, and the unbelievable expense for pointless things with an all Microsoft approach.
;-).
;-).
The licensing bollocks in the article of being squeezed into buying a full copy of XP, or Windows Server, not to mention the excruciating amount of time you spend wading through the treacle, is just the tip of the iceberg, and is not something I see in very many TCO studies
The final straw was Terminal Services, which to this day, is the one thing that pisses me off just about the most with Windows and Windows Servers. You actually need to run a separate service, or even a separate Windows Server, just to track Client Access Licenses (which you pay for) so that users can get access to all their applications. Anything that goes wrong with TS is nearly always licensing related, and has nothing to do whatever with the software itself. The sole reason why this is as difficult as it is is because remote applications like this seriously threatens Microsoft's reliance and monopoly over fat clients, so they got in quick and closed what they saw as a loophole. Their approach is to then make the thin client approach just as expensive and more difficult. Well, f*** off. We wanted to spend our money on things that were going to make things better and actually get us ahead of the loser competition.
I know SBS is held up as this great white hope for IT in small businesses, but I find the whole thing so limiting that we can very rarely give a 'Yes' answer to a client without asking for several thousands of whatever currency you wish before we even start and disappearing for several weeks. I mention these problems we have had calmly to many Microsoft resellers and 'Gold Partner' IT companies and they get very visibly upset, because they just don't know what to say.
As a business, we then went off into a fantastic world of an Ubuntu server running separate VMware or Xen Virtual Machines, remote desktop applications using Nomachine's fantastic NX Server, and with no ridiculous CAL overhead where we could ditch Windows applications, SQL Ledger, Zimbra, Fedora Directory Server and many others. The whole set up we have internally does so much more than a Windows and Microsoft set up does, it just isn't believable.
No doubt I'll get some extremely witty and informative reply to this comment about how someone managed to bork their Grub and Ubuntu installation into not booting. Oh, I see we've already had one
Actually I bet he has many years of experience, but just hasn't done this recently. A few years ago, when you bought a new computer, you would get a real full version windows disk. If this were still true, he would have easily been able to do his job.
However, now because of the way that Microsoft makes its products, it is harder to do what he needs it to do. But this is what Microsoft does. Makes it easier for the masses that don't know anything, harder for the few that do. Windows restore disk, VB, Word, Managed C++. This is what Microsoft does.
If your users want to use Windows, then spend the extra money and do it right. Linux can be made to be easy for users, but Windows will always be a program that Microsoft will try to make money with. Therefore its use will always be geared for that.
The problem with a lot people is that they want EVERYTHING for $0.01 What do you expect when you buy a computer with a 40GB drive as a server? It's not even a low end workstation!!!!!!!!! Let me guess the guy paid $199 for the "server" and expects HP to give him world-class tech support, 10 year warranty, restore software written by the brightest guys in the world with more options then a Linux kernel compile. Come on, you get what you pay for. And the guy is setting up one office a week, scary.
Everyone who buys Wild Hunt will receive 16 specially prepared DLCs absolutely for free, regardless of platform.
I hope Charlie will now demand that HP refund him the pittance they actually give you back when you demand your "I'm not using Windows on this machine" refund, as permitted for in the Windows ToS.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
There's nothing like frustration to help one get over the fear of jumping out of the M$ boat and swimming with penguins.
"Desktops are under evaluation, but Microsoft lost this chain for sure on the server side."
Linux desktop migration seems to be a more considered option these days. Vista problems and restrictions are likely to drive more small businesses as well as enterprise customers toward Linux desktop adoption.
I lost my sig...
Even if he did manage to get the HP XP installed with the Promise RAID drivers, he probably wasn't ready to enable 48-bit LBA to handle ATAPI drives larger than 137GB under XP.
All the blame here lies on one company, HP. They didn't ship them a Windows CD which would have fixed it right up. But any good computer tech would have had a Windows XP Pro OEM CD that they could have used to install the OS (Microsoft sends an entire album of current OEM CDs to partners). Sure you would have to call up to activate the OS, but it would have gotten him up and running.
The best strategy for a business is to start your small business with an IT department that can handle your IT infrastructure, and then expand it to what you need. Consultants have to hill-climb; they have to say, "There's a problem here, we'll fix it. If you find another problem (possibly exposed by this fix), call us again." Your own IT department should have documentation and experience with your network, so they know if they do X it will break Y but they can do Z to get Y working properly and move ahead safely.
When you do open source, you have a more interesting plan of motion. It's still a matter of keeping your own IT department trim yet functional to avoid the nightmare of consultant attempts to address narrow problems from a narrow viewpoint; but you can do something interesting with that IT department. Set aside a budget to keep a small number of programmer-software-engineers on hand, and have them focus on "Market Softening in the Business Interests." Simply put, have them work with your upstream maintainer, write code, devise plans, and create applications and features in applications that are good for your business.
Anything such a team would produce has to be public by nature of their work, so they should never be handed any kind of business-critical confidential information; they could safely work with not only the community, but with other such groups in other businesses in some form of "alliance" like everyone likes to form these days. This means that you've not only got a good hand in controlling the market to favor your business; but you've also got both good PR and good business relations with other potential business partners and even with your rivals (rivals can become partners). It creates a less hostile atmosphere for businesses; it's still competitive, but you've only got your competition against you instead of the whole software market.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
O, that aside e could have slipstreamed the drivers into the install as knowledgeable admins often do. (sounds simple, I haven't done it myself though) or perhaps purchased the operating system that was appropriate for the implementation, namely win 2003 standard.
I got no beef with using Linux, it sounds like it could work in this case, but the incompetence sounds like the author's not the manufacturers.
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
According to TFA - the business only installed Ubuntu on the server box. It looks like the rest of the machines are still on XP. Yeah, they are employing a linux distro where vendor/MS licensing failed them, but it's not like they completely went FOSS in the whole organization or anything. This summary is overblowing Linux usage for this particular organization.
I'm sorry to hear about your problems; I hope you give it another shot.
However, to be fair, if everyone had to install Windows themselves, also, I think the majority of the population just would never use a computer AT ALL.
I just gave it a shot a few days ago. All I can say is WOW.
If you have not tried Ubuntu, please do. I can't say enough good things about it.
From http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/docs/HOWTO/Advoca cy
Also according to TFA, this happened at a small branch office, the parent company is putting Linux on all of its servers, and "desktops are under evaluation" -- IOW, every single computer in the whole company, not just the one server in the branch office, may be switched over to Linux. It didn't mention what company this is or how big it is, but the extent of this may be more than you're thinking.
-Mike
I'm sorry; I don't know what I was thinking!
This guy is a well known troll. Look at the ubuntu forums (other people have provided links) and see what an asshole this guy was to the people trying to help him.
Chances are the guy didn't really have a problem and he is just trolling either for fun or profit.
evil is as evil does
b) Last time I checked, Ubuntu doubled as a live CD.
So, like every wise guy that offered help, you failed to read the part where I said I did this at a time before they combined them.
You don't understand. Every Linux install CD is a live CD. Not all of them have pretty GUI desktops, but every single one of them is a Live CD. What Ubuntu recently did was put a pretty GUI desktop on their installer CD, but previous versions were a Live CD as well.
When the installer CDs first boot, you're given the option of typing something that will give you a prompt instead of the installer. From there it's possible to troubleshoot the GRUB problem.
It seems no one explained this to you in such explicit terms, which is unfortunate, because I imagine your GRUB problem could have been fixed--sometimes installers screw up on multiple hard-drive systems which, again, is unfortunate. I can see why you had trouble getting help, though--getting mad at volunteers who are trying to help you is quite counter-productive.
Penny - plain text accounting
Anyone who confuses "support" with proprietary software is not working in their client's best interests. Proprietors drop software maintenance to get users on the upgrade treadmill. Proprietors ostensibly act motivated by profit, but users can find computers that do their job well after the hardware is no longer profitable. Consultants ought to promote the use of free software drivers and firmware (or, preferably, no firmware needed at all) so that their clients can leverage the talents of a free market of developers to improve and maintain the software needed to make all hardware work with any system. Separating users from their freedom is not fiscally sound for users.
Digital Citizen
Use the BIOS config. (hit F2, Del, or Esc at boot)
:-(
Change the drive settings. Try variations on "large disk", "LBA" (often best), plug-and-play stuff, boot order, etc.
After each change of the settings, try to boot.
If that fails, repeat it with an install after each change.
Consider a BIOS upgrade and/or a different Ubuntu release.
Considering that he was trying to run XP as a server OS, something only the truly moronic would consider doing (incredibly, he blames Microsoft for HP's shitty restore CD and Promise's shitty driver CD), I very much doubt this sort of thing will be a shining beacon of hope to anyone.
Not that this has anything to do with Vista or Microsoft, and everything to do with one very silly man doing some very silly things indeed.
By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
One thing: its patsies, HP In this case, HP is not just being MS' patsy, they are serving their own interest. MS didn't request them cripple their customization, they crippled it themselves to encourage any upgrades to be HP supplied, not third party.
The key sentence where everything went to crap: Out came the anaemic 40GB drive from one HP, and in when the Promise controller and two WD 200GB SATA drives. In the first part, he drank the vendor kool-aid and got their customized XP install. That's a valid choice in and of itself. Then he grabbed a third-party controller card and expected the stuff HP provided to play nice with it. HP didn't want him to do that, they wanted him to buy a presumably much more expensive HP branded controller to do the same thing. HP's install CD not accomodating that is hardly a surprise, and hardly a MS decision. The different keys for retail and OEM reflect the different pricing tiers. .
If they are a particularly small business, not going with one vendor is a valid choice, but you best put it together via all-third-party parts and get a generic OEM windows disk. If you can get a no-windows discount on the HP system, and use that discount for a different license, you can go with a non-restricted install media set. You do, however, in this way accept a higher degree of risk (problem determination falls squarely on your shoulders, and your vendors may disagree with your conclusion and blame other parts..). If you run on thin margins and time is not uber-critical for systems, this may be the appropriate path
If you drink the vendor kool-aid and get their hardware and software, you've drunk the kool-aid and as a consequence, you ought buy from HP your upgrades. You can't expect something put together by them to work for hardware configurations they would explicitly not support. This is more expensive if you buy any significant number of upgrades, but that's the course you signed up for by implicitly restricting yourself to their install media. By mixing and matching, you get the negatives of above with respect to support (HP can blame the generic Promise chipped card, and vice-versa), but you pay more for the privilege of support that is compromised by the choice.
I'm a professional linux guy working for a hardware vendor. We invest a lot of time and money in making sure all our hardware works well for given linux distributions. I occasionally have to work with a customer who ultimately admits to third party options in the systems that usually end up the cause of their problem for reasons more purely technical than artificial CD key barriers. I'm a little defensive of this circumstance because even without artificial key measures introduced, this strategy can screw you over regardless of your software platform.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
You buy an OEM copy of the OS but then find you can't use it. So you then have to go out and buy a full copy.
How many Windows licences are there out there compared to PCs? must be nearly two CDs for every PC running Windows. Many corporations buy PCs with XP Home and wipe that and install XP Professional.
Your computer wasn't bricked. It could boot, and work fine, just not from the source you were using. A bricked device is one that will not boot at all, or boots only to then fail in some spectacular way. Your use of the term in such a consistently erroneous fashion only marks you as a fool.
Why is it that many people who claim to support standards have such atrocious spelling and grammar?
I don't go anywhere to do any work without the Ultimate Boot CD for Windows! As long as the system can support XP (older machines can't, so I have to use the older Boot CD which is DOS-based), I can boot XP anywhere and have numerous utilities available. In fact, my UBCDW has so many antivirus and antispyware utilities on it that I'm thinking of making a couple more CDs with different sets of utilities on it to do other things. I'd do a DVD version, but a lot of people still don't have DVD drives in their machines.
I'm going to add some utilities to several 2GB flash drives and eventually convert one of my older 60GB hard drives into an external USB inclosure and load it up with EVERYTHING - along with a boot CD to access it.
Then - bring it on! I've got over 1600 utilities that can pretty much handle any issue I'm likely to encounter (knock wood, tomorrow I'll run into one I can't...)
Gotta admit, though, the guy was screwed when there were no drivers on the Promise disk. And it is a pain that you can't use a vanilla XP install CD to replace system files in a Systems File Check (although I understand the security reasons for it) or do much of anything else except run a Restore Console.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Let me quickly relate a recent experience. I installed Slackware on this machine a little while back. It took me two days, including one day to figure out how to set up Apache with a load of modules and Twiki. Kernel compiled, Apache compiled, ready to go.
More recently I had to install Windows XP Pro from an SP1 disk. It took me two days to set up Windows XP Pro with administrator and user accounts and get all my apps updated and working properly (or close enough with some apps running escalated privileges) in user mode.
My conclusion: Both Slackware and Windows are very difficult systems to build from scratch. If people had to install Windows themselves they would be as smart as Linux geeks.
"Will future ages believe that such stupid bigotry ever existed!" -- Ivanhoe
When the installer CDs first boot, you're given the option of typing something that will give you a prompt instead of the installer. From there it's possible to troubleshoot the GRUB problem.
Oh, okay, so this is a more subtle failure to read my post than I had previously though. See this part:
That was me using it as a Live CD, but without using the magic words. It failed too, as you can see.
Inform the others.
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
Yep. Right up to the point where the "small businessman" has to face the realities of dealing with Microsoft's current licensing policy.
The problems described in the original article are, mostly, caused by Microsoft's attempts to artificially segment a market so that Microsoft can extract the most revenue from those segments.
Which is why the Ubuntu installation went so easily. It wasn't designed to segment the market. It doesn't matter who is installing it or on what hardware (as long as it's recognized) or what version and there is no unlocking code.
So, yes, being blunt about Microsoft's practices does make you sound like "an adolescent nincompoop" to anyone who is not aware of the facts. To anyone who does understand (and has experienced them first hand), it is nothing more than bluntness.
Read the article, and the more I read, the more I got convinced that the 'victim' is a clueless amateur.
Uses consumer grade hardware (Promise controller) for a server.
Installs a new HD controller, but doesn't even know how to get into its BIOS at boot. Tried it on a test system first? Nah, didn't even RTFM and missed the instruction to press Ctrl/F that appears on screen at boot.
Doesn't know that you can't install from a retail XP CD with an OEM license key (now I begin to understand why MS made only one Vista setup, that installs the bersion you need based on the key you enter).
And the list goes on.
I wish his customer luck.
He'll need it.
You better stick with HP drives in HP servers silly. Dont try and be cheap about it, get the 146 u320 scsi's. Shoo, I run linux on very nice proliants in exactly the situation your talking about, remote branch file servers. I stick with linux software raid. I've watched my co-workers fool with the silly on-the-board sata raid, trying to get windows on it, that was funny. Anyway remote branch mirror --> rsync --> data center --> tape --> offsite. Done.
http://www.driverpacks.net/
This article was obviously written by an absolute amateur. There are almost no facts at all in the steaming pile of rhetoric.
Does this man ever shutup with his whinging and moaning?
FFS. Yes it's stupid. But all you needed to do was just use the original drive or any ATA drive for that matter thats not attached to some proprietary RAID controller for a boot drive, install the promise drivers via their stupid tool and it all just would have worked.
He needs to be hit with a clue-by-four.
What I don't understand about this story:
"noticed the second problem, the #($ing Promise CD doesn't have drivers on it! No, I am not kidding, they ship the card with a CD, but that CD has no drivers on it! Honestly."
The guy is mad because he doesn't have the drivers on a CD (so much so he writes up an article on-line about this fact) but he never bothers to hit up Promise's website to download the drivers.
I'm all for people using whatever OS they need to get the job done, but this article seems a bit dodgy. If the client wanted XP for a file server, then buy him a copy of the OS and invoice him for it (or call HP and tell them your needs and see if they have a different install disk). I'm sure the extra XP license would cost less then paying this guy to fart around for a couple hours attempting to install XP from a restore disk.
If Ubuntu will work for him, fine, use that.
But why install Ubuntu and write up a mini-rant just because you don't have the basic skills to download some drivers on-line.
My studio - www.graylands.ca
And if you're the consultant/contractor, you can do things like having the Linux server email its logs to you, every day.
Or even write a short script so that it checks in with your site every day or hour or minute or whatever. Of course, since your site is running Linux, you've already scripted it so it will page/call/email you when any machine misses its scheduled checks. So you can call the client and ask if there's something wrong at that site. Did they lose power? Is it on fire?
In case of a real server problem, you already have all the text-based configuration files and a list of the installed apps so you can get their box up and running quickly and then recover their data from their backup tape (which was also emailing you every day letting you know that it was happy).
Where this breaks down is the Windows servers running software that is only available for Windows and that does not support such automated reporting or configuration archiving. I hate the registry.
...Biting back my fervent desire to throw this mess out of a window, get a gun, and go to Redmond... Man! I know that feeling. You have my deepest sympathies.Let me get this straight, just so I know I'm not reading this wrong:
Customer asked for:
A new branch office (presumably they have others) with a handful of Windows workstations and a Windows file server
Contract IT guy gave them:
Some Windows workstations and a Linux file server because he couldn't get Windows working
Customer's head office presumably said:
"You're fired. We'll get someone who *can* give us what we asked for. If we want to use Linux will ask for it."
Incredible!
;-P
So many ways out of that problem:
- wrong OS version, get another;
- become a M$ partner (yeah, excellent idea, Pinky!);
- use NAS (oh, my...)...
Let me ask you all, Windows techies, just one little tiny thing:
Why not making the F***G thing simpler? If the guy bought the stuff, he is entitled to get support!
But I know, it's all about purchasing a costlier version -- which the guy didn't. So much for support...
But don't despair! You know what? If it happens to a bigger organization, like a government agency, it will be exactly the same thing. Don't ask me how I know...
Oh, just a minute, it would be different: in a bigger corporation, you could not decide to use Linux, because some moronic boss would insist on using Windows, because it's so easy to use (oh, the irony!).
I was helping a friend get set up with a new computer. It's a sweet, sweet box from HP: Athlon 4200+ X2 processor, 1GB RAM, DVD burner. It's an HP Pavilion a1647c-b, and it cost US$900 (which included a nice widescreen LCD display with both analog and DVI inputs!). I upgraded it with a passively-cooled nVidia 7600GS graphics card, so it's now using the DVI input on the LCD display, and the display looks great.
I wanted to install Ubuntu on it, but I haven't done so yet. Here's why.
It turns out that the system doesn't come with an XP install CD. No surprise, Microsoft requires OEMs to provide "recovery disks". But it turns out that the system doesn't come with recovery disks either! It comes with a utility for burning a custom set of recovery disks. The manual says you are permitted to burn exactly one set of recovery disks.
It turns out that you need 18 blank CD-R disks, or 3 blank DVD+/-R disks, to burn your custom set of recovery disks! So I went home without installing Ubuntu.
The next day he bought a stack of DVD+R disks, and I went back. The recovery disk utility took a long time to burn the first disk, and then it said "verifying" and sat there, indicating 1% progress. So I left again without installing Ubuntu. He left it running and it never did finish.
So now he has a Windows system that he doesn't dare use, because if it gets messed up, there is no way to restore it. He told me he would call HP tech support but I haven't heard back from him.
By the way: it would have been easy to install Ubuntu before the first boot-up. I booted an Ubuntu CD and used it as a live CD, and looked over the hard disk without modifying it. Initially there was a 20GB partition and a whole bunch of empty space. On the first boot, the Windows system expanded the NTFS file system to fill the whole bunch of empty space. If I had just created a couple of partitions at the end of the empty space, I'm pretty sure that Windows would have left them alone, and then it would have been trivial to install Ubuntu. (Of course, if I had done that, I would have had a nagging worry that the recovery disk fiasco was somehow my fault. Because I didn't touch the machine before first boot, it's clear that the recovery meltdown has nothing to do with me.)
I was tempted to just grab a copy of XP and do a full re-install. But this particular system came with XP Media Center Edition, and I have no idea where I can get an install CD of XP MCE (or how much it would cost).
I'm half-tempted to buy one of these systems, though, because it was a good value for the money, and Ubuntu recognized all the hardware, right down to the flash card reader.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
I'm sorry I didn't read all of the comments, but didn't microsoft make their money and run type of thing. At the end of the article the guy said Microsoft must be loosing money because of "brain-dead" policies.
But he has a valid Microsoft license, that came with the computer, and the system is already paid for. So Microsoft made their money, and now doesn't have to support their system. Even if the business won't go with Windows servers in the future, the way they seem to purchase hardware would seem that they will continue recieving pre-built computers with windows, then install linux on it. HP and Microsoft will continue making money without really loosing the business.
Just my thoughts on the subject anyways.
Sorry I should have been more clear (without any ad referrers in the URL). It's a 15 day trial, but then how long does it take to move from one to another? There should be no serial number tricks with this one, but if there is? Then an older version is easy to get. Anyway it works and it's about as easy as the process is ever going to get (even faster than DD). Drivers isn't an issue because it uses pre-existing ones (SATA people will like that). It also resizes the new partitions, so there's no wasted space.
This guy gives all wannabe computer consultants a bad rep.
1.) NEVER EVER TEST ON A CLIENT'S SYSTEM
- You should test on your own equipment to see how hard the controller is to setup etc. CLient's systems are handsoff. Preferably you pre-setup the raid controller and initialize the raid controller ahead of time. Doesn't waste your time onsite, and if you want to make extra cash, you can bill client for it while you working on other projects.
2.) Whitebox OEM copies of XP are different than HP/Dell/IBM copies. They're the same OS, but the licensing is different.That's one of the reasons those systems are cheaper than a regular whitebox system - Microsoft gives them a special copy of Windows, without the media and the license that states you only get a recovery cd preloaded, not a full copy.
3.)
It actually has nothing to do with Microsoft sorry to say :(
User bought a proprietary hardware box, got a guy who thought he knew what he was doing.
I wonder how long the client was down/unable to use or access files because of this guys lack of knowledge and foreplanning?
I personally would have recommended a Linux machine from the start, BUT it could be done on a windows 98/2k/xp machine just as well if the person implementing it knew anything.
Please, i hope you dont call yourself a computer guy. You give a bad rep to everybody in the industry :(
move along, nothing to see here.
I had this problem with an HP/CPQ machine I bought my folks a couple years ago. It came pre-loaded with so much crap (XP home) that a brand new, mid-range machine took five minutes just to stop grinding once Windows loaded. It only came with a recovery partition (no real CD) and I didn't want to load a cracked/corp version of XP on it. A little poking around revealed a C:\WINDOWS\i386 folder that contained all of the installer files that would have been on the CD. Used Jellybean to find the OEM key, made sure the i386 folder I found had the oembios.bin and related files (to get around activation the 'legit' OEM way), and burned a CD of the installer files. Booted the system from DOS with CD drive support, and manually ran winnt.exe from DOS to install XP. It was a little slow, but it copied the installer files and loaded a vanilla version of XP home, sans all the HP preloaded crap. After the first reboot (where it copied the installer files) I could have hit F6 to feed it an add-on driver. No activation required, and it used the key originally shipped on the preload install instead of the 'useless' key stamped on the sticker. All nice and legit. It took me a few hours to figure out how to do it the first time, but now that I know the tricks to buidling non-activation OEM CD's it's not a big deal. Done it with XP and OEM server 2003's. This guy obviously knew very little about the nuts and bolts of how to tweak Windows and was just itching for an excuse to load Linux. If you want to argue Linux is better that's one thing, but don't blame other OS's for your own ignorance of how to work with them.
Another question is, why didn't he leave the 40GB drive in there for the OS? Then he could have installed the RAID driver just fine. It doesn't matter so much if the OS drive fails; all the data's still there.
..up Windows install. Cannot get the drivers, the install media or anything else to work.
This was definately a SA issue and not a vendor issue on this one.
I'm not trying to disparage your idea of having a live Windows cd as I like the
idea myself of having a live Linux cd like knoppix. The question I have is:
Are Bart's PE CDROMS legal to create under the terms of Microsoft's
EULA? I'm just curious because I could see someone make themselves
a cdrom from their oem install disk, which I personally think would
be fine as a recovery tool for the oem machine it came from, but not
necessarily on any other machine.
Would you (or anyone else for that matter) mind talking a little about
the legality of Bart's PE cdroms?
--Just Curious
upgrading an old box rather than buying a new one is that one knows what parts one is putting into the box... like putting a $45 (on sale) PSU into the upgrade instead of the $10 PSU that might come with the new machine. Which is why I just put $360 in parts into my 1999 ATX box instead of buying new. (motherboard, DDR2, virtualization-ready Athlon 64, new PSU)
But this is a strategy for a tech-savvy individual, not an organization.
The backup strategy I use is a mirror drive in a mobile rack (UNPLUGGED when not in use) imaged originally via dd (plus playing games with LVM) and updated via rsync every other day, and a monthly archival DVD backup. I think this gives one a better chance of getting everything back quickly than separating the data and OS. My last bare metal restore took 15 minutes... I just pulled out the dead drive, put in the backup, then went to Maxtor to file an RMA on the dead drive.
Tech Public Policy stuff
If he wanted a whitebox file server then he should have built it himself. Bagging on HP is kind of stupid given that you can easily install a few different flavors of Linux on a Proliant with full driver support.
In short, the guy wasn't using the right tools for the job and he got bit in the butt by it. If he had planned ahead instead of just assuming that everything would work right then he could have avoided the problems that he ran into.
Granted, Ubuntu worked for him better than the Windows options that he had so chalk it up as a "win" for Ubuntu.
Post this crap as "Anonymous Coward" rather than have your potential customers know that you're a Micro$hill.
Assuming that your profession is technology rather than astroturfing, of course.
Tech Public Policy stuff
with (a fast processor and enough memory and swap), I doubt that anyone is going to notice the difference between VMware Server running Quickbooks in a Windows VM and Quickbooks on a native XP box. . . except that the Linux box will be stabler.
So far, the only thing I haven't been able to run on VMware Server is Quake 1.
I've been running desktop Linux on the machine I do business with it for years. I'm pretty happy about it, except if I happen to be trying to plug in a new peripheral. (at that point, I suddenly start wishing I was running OSX... but I usually get over it)
Tech Public Policy stuff
while the subject is all I actually have to say, certain brain-dead software around here insists on text in the body of the post.
Tech Public Policy stuff
All you gotta do is ask the company to send you one. Dell does it. I'm sure that HP does, too.
Some ideas on http://freedomdrive.org/
You're welcome to react there.
This probably belongs well up in the replies, but I can't scroll through any more discussions about Ubuntu (call me lazy :)
I ran into the problem of incompatible keys while working on two Dell desktops.
Neither machine would boot from Dell's own Windows XP Home Edition CD, and of course the key on the Dell COAs would not work with an OEM CD, which would boot.
So I downloaded the install floppies from Microsoft. The six floppies would not boot the Dell CD either, since the CD label differs from the OEM CD, and even though I eventually was able to get the system running from the Dell CD (do not ask me how, I do not remember, mostly due to the frustration of the whole situation and the time spent) the Dell key would not work, apparently due to the difference in the boot floppies.
Microsoft will not help because the CD is OEM (and Dell Special OEM at that,) and Dell will not help because the computers are out of warranty. So I had to tell the owner that the only way for me to get Windows installed on the computers was for him to buy the operating system he already owned. I told him just to buy the upgrade, and I fudged it with a Windows 98 OEM CD I have.
I really do not care that this technically violates the licensing agreement: he owns the operating system already and should not have had to purchase it again. Microsoft can kiss my ass for making my job so much more difficult. And for that matter, so can Dell.
Uh, huh. Person does a rant that makes MS look bad, and Linux look good, and you'd think he'd mention something like that? It would win him brownie points with the "I hate MS" crowd. ("See! That mean old Windows user is making me do somthing "unnatural"")
If you read the article, the server software was setup to Linux, not the entre small office. It's not unusual for small or large offices to run Linux. My company has many Linux boxes even though this is a primarily Microsoft House. I have much love for each. The ease of use and the support structure of Microsoft, and the grass-root support and stability of the Linux systems.
:-)
As an aside, one of the funny things that we do is run Linux boxes with virtual Windows Servers on them. I don't think that Microsoft ever envisioned that.
These days, not many manufactureres include any kind of recovery disks, though there are a few. But what you WILL see, is that everyone who DOES include SOMETHING (except Toshiba, who uses a Ghost image) includes a disk with ONLY THE OS. As for your key not working, MS uses different a algorythm (i should hang for butchering that) for each XP Version. OEM XP Home, OEM XP Pro, OEM XP Media Center, Retail XP Home, Retail XP Pro, Corporate XP Pro, OEM XP Home Service Pack 1, OEM XP Pro Service Pack 1, etc. etc. etc. So no, that key on the side of your machine is not going to work with the "Disks you have lying around". I have to wonder, with you so eager to jump to Ubuntu as a "solution", why do you have so many XP disks laying about?
Anyway, the no floppy thing does suck. Setting up a RAID these days on OEM machines is a nightmare, but only because it's very much a pain in the ass (XP is 5 years old, OEM machines no longer have floppy drives, etc.), but is is definitely doable. What I'm wondering though, is what you were using XP as a server for, and where you aquired this machine. And why would you be using an OEM retail (kinda sounds like this is the case) machine as a "Server" anyway?
Interestingly enough this reminds me a lot of a sale that I was recently asked about. A gentleman wanted to set up a server for his office, with 3 clients. I talked to him for quite a while. Retail machines are cheap, and depending on the exact needs, they may work well. But for christ's sake, don't be an idiot setting it up. And don't blame the companies for your ignorance. Gawd that pisses me off.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Someone who uses Windows on a server. Someone who uses desktop hardware as a server. This guy is a moron. If you are still using windows for anything other than games, you are just not paying attention.
Unless he somehow wrangled a refund out of HP for the copy of XP he didn't use, then Microsoft still got paid, thus their "braindead policy" isn't costing them a nickel. They're just making money on a copy of Windows they don't need to support.
Two problems with this, the first is that even if they were to get a refund it is HP that would pay for it not MS I'd imagine as I wouldn't be supprised if OEMs that have volume discounts for Windows has to pay for each PC sold. The second issue is once a client finds another supplier it's difficult to bring them back. So while MS still got paid for Windows, they lost future sales.
FalconShould there be a Law?
I've been working on Windows boxes for quite a while, both in my own company, as a tech for a larger company, and now a network administrator. The problem this guy ran into was actually quite simple. There are several versions of Windows XP (OEM, VL, Retail, AP, etc). You can't use one disk with another, period. No big deal, tons of ways to get your hands on the various version discs.
I question what the heck this guy is doing and thinking. If he has the ability to set up an Ubuntu box, heck if he even knows how to set up a basic RAID 1 array, I'm baffled as to why he doesn't know the answer to his own question. Anyone who reads this article who themselves is tech saavy knows this guy is a bit of a dolt. How on earth he got his story published on anything other than his blog is beyond me.
And in response to a lot of peoples' jargon about an XP Pro box not being able to make a good server - why not?? I've worked as an independent contractor for small business IT needs for half a dozen years, and there's no reason why a simple XP pro box can't make a decent, cost effective server. Albiet, it all boils down to the clients' needs, but for a typical small business (and by small business I mean less than 30 employees), like the one mentioned here, all they typically need is something decent that will host files where their files are reasonable safe. An XP pro box set up properly can make for an appropriate server. RAID 1, backup scripts (or 3rd party programs), a UPS, a couple network shares is what half of the world runs on. Remember, 80% of business in North America is small business (sub 30 people).
All of this doesn't change the fact that quite clearly this guy doesn't know what he's doing. 2 minutes on google would have answered his question.
This is why Slashdot is not a very interesting site to read because of totally biased, and more importantly, useless examples of yours guys hate of Microsoft. Not many people care about some random guy's shift to Ubuntu, the Linux flavor of the month distro, whether it was justified or not.
If I want Apple fanboy news, then I go to Digg. If I want Linux fanboy news or the rare BSD news, then I go to Slashdot.
Instead of hand picking negative stories about Microsoft, Post something actually relevant to a technology news site, such as features in the next Linux kernel that will make it even more appealing than the current one, maybe some mono news, or gosh forbid, some news about what Microsoft is doing right. After all, for as much bad as they do, they do a lot of good too.
No burner required.. only patience.
waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
I've got a Cyrix something-ancient sitting at my mom's house with a 500 GB SATA drive and her printer hanging off it - does samba, squid, and firewalling. Also have a K6-III pumping out a Icecast stream for a local community radio station. I've set up a PII-233 running NT4 to handle a building access control system that we picked up on EBay (the upgraded ROMS that could handle the XP-capable control program were $400).
Plus, there are plenty of home and hobby sites hosted on all kinds of wierd stuff - for awhile, a number of people were hosting sites off their XBoxen...
Why can't I mod "-1 Idiot"?
I am surprised that nobody here has stated the obvious about how the guy could have gone about getting the drivers for his raid controller.
He could have done the following:
1) Downloaded them off of the internet.
2) He could have used his laptop to make the floppy from the CD. I assume he must have had a laptop if he was doing this stuff once a week. At the very least he could have used another computer.
3) Attempted to extract the drivers from whatever compressed file they resided in on the CD.
He would not have had to re-install windows, all he had to do was install the raid controller, and install the drivers for it, and continue booting from XP on the old drive, thats of course assuming there was room for it.
10 reboots to figure out how to get into the raid controller bios pretty much sums it up. I wonder how many reboots it took to figure out how to get into the system bios.
Happy new year to you too, retard.
The comments and the moderation on this article made something very clear to me.
/. decides to award mod points), have a heavy influence on meta-moderation, and certainly use all their mod points (I rraely do, I am too busy).
The bias on Slashdot has shifted quite significantly away from Linux and towards MS over the last two or three years.
Why? Astroturfing, wider audience, what?
My own suspicion is that PR people who spend all day on the web, spend a lot more time (per head) reading and commenting on Slashdot, they therefore all end up with high karma and probably get mod points often (I am not sure how
I was really looking forward to seeing how this person actually implemented a Linux server in their business.. I only read about the anti=MS spam.. which is fine and all, but people need to see why Linux works so well.. there were no steps regarding the installation process.. it was more like a big rant about 3rd party HD drivers.. i agree, HP should have thought much more about that.. those restore cd's are a big fuckin joke.. but i'd like to hear the specifics and technicalities one must go through when migrating to Linux.. unfortunately this article didn't not provide that.
*plays the Apogee theme song music*
What really happened was the contractor tried to use Windows but the purchases were not applicable to the task. He then installed Ubuntu on the server and told the customer what he'd done and why. The customer then said "Wow. This really shows how MS and HP suck. We'll do the same on our other systems and also look at changing the desktop while we're at it".
The only reason to go for a big name like HP is for bulk discount (may be too small an org for that) and/or support. Well, if HP don't support Linux, that's one reason to go elsewhere, isn't it?
Leave it to a Linux guy to install Linux when he can't figure out how to install MS.
:)
The situation described is not particularly complex to work around (as several posters have already noted). Most real consultants would have at least a spare hard drive, DVD drive and floppy drive and some common software like OS, Ghost and yes, even a Linux bootable CD in their kit -- as well as a notebook. Not much you can't work around with a few basic pieces of equipment. Even without it, there are plenty of ways to go.
If I were the customer, I'd fire this guy's ass out the door and bring in someone who knew what they were doing.
Unfortunately, I see this kind of 'consultant knows best and to hell with what the customer has/wants' attitude often and end up having to go in and clean up some horrific messes. The bright side is that this kind of work is all too easy to find, and the customers are delighted to pay whatever I ask to get the job done right.
It looks like the general public...er...the general Slashdot public....was thinking the same thing that I was when I read that: "not only is the guy a tool but a douche bag as well." .... The point is the client deserved better than what I gave them, and what this guy gave them.
Then, after a few hours of R&R, now sober, ready to go to work, my views on the situation have changed. Don't get wrong, the guy is still a douche bag, but what he was faced with, in many cases, is something that we have all been faced with. That's why we get paid for all the hoop jumping.
I just feel that this story paints an unpleasantly good picture of Linux and an unpleasantly bad picture for MS, all for the wrong reasons.
I am a great backer of Linux for all its effectiveness in almost every role (the three routers on my network are running Unix/Linux) as an incredibly versatile platform, but this story just makes it seems like some tool for douche bags. It makes it seem like you just 'plug it in and it works," which as people know, isn't the case most of the time. To people who know their stuff and realized how borked this situation was, this story just makes Linux seem like a copout and makes Linux users to be those rebels that don't care about support, maintenance, or in general, the continued success of our clients.
My point is that while we have all made mistakes, borked installs and the like, but Linux isn't the answer to competency problems. An appropriate answer to our problems is ethical business practices that take our clients into account. As someone pointed out, just imagine when the "hit sh!t the fan;)" and the client wants to do something, well, ANYTHING, with his unsupported Linux box. It paints a bad picture of not only the installer but of the Linux community as well.
Sorry to get all teary eyed and emotional right now (no worries, I am stroking my gigantic man-horn right now so I won't cry) but in it's important to realize that you not only need to take pride in your work, but also realize not only who you are working for, but who you are representing as well.
I have been there, in the hot seat, after making rookie mistakes (lack of manpower really, not this bad), after MS Domain implementations, and I have learned that the most important thing is to keep the customer happy and not to bring any undue stress to their attention. Sure every computer in the network was full of spyware and couldn't be joined until they were cleaned; sure the cabling in the building was a mess, sure
In the end, this guy did a disservice to every party involved and Slashdot ran the story for god knows what reason, maybe as a virtual "dead carcass" on the side of the road. That said, we need to shy away from exposing disaster and giving airtime to the inept, and continue promoting truly great and admirable integrations of OSS.
Ubuntu, Redhat, SUSE and others are not what you install as a scapegoat.
You install them when you want to get some work done, and in this situation, that wasn't the case. Windows could have easily done what he needed on the spot, and instead he just decided to mask incompetence with some sort of 'wisdom' for seeking what's 'cool.'
[/rant]
your computer is definitely bricked. You should go to Best Buy and get a new one, and in the future do not attempt to install alternative OS's and stick to the Microsoft product line.
You say this like it is a bad thing.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - BF
The author sets up offices "all the time" but...
1) Bought an HP computer for an office (so you get those restore CDs and not the full OS as Dell sends)
2) "occasional" backups?
3) Not realizing how XP keys work
And that's just the first few paragraphs...
Some of the accusations made against HP and Microsoft in this blog are not accurate. OEM's are indeed allowed to distribute media from Microsoft, but many chose to distribute a drive image or a custumized install disk. The reason for this is 1) If they use a drive image, an installation can take as little at 10-15 minutes and 2) If they use a custom disk, they can slipstream updates, drivers, and the software that comes with the machine on the disk.
Also, the key that is on the computer does NOT only work with the disk. It is an OEM license and one can therefore use an XP OEM disk to install using this key. This is the same with Dell, Lenovo/IBM, Toshiba, Alienware...the list goes on and on. These manufacturers all get OEM licenses that work with a clean XP OEM disk.
If it doesn't think [Microsoft's] brain dead policies are costing them money, I am proof positive that they are, and I am willing to bet I am far from alone. Seems to me Microsoft still gets paid a license fee for every server even if you immediately reformat the drive and install Ubuntu. Until all computer vendors feel free to ship boxes without Windows pre-installed, Microsoft's fascist policies will have negligible effect on their bottom line.
Don't get me wrong... there are a lot of Linux consultants, but most of them tend to do long-term contract-type consulting, rather than "Geek Patrol"-type small business work.
That sounds like an opportunity then, get a small group of Linux experts that can work on small and or short term jobs. The contracts would be shorter but there'd be more of them.
FalconShould there be a Law?
UbuntuDupe - http://slashdot.org/~UbuntuDupe
He just wants to bash Ubuntu, for whatever reason popped into his brain. I've installed and ran just about everything from Caldera, RedHat, Suse, plain Debian, and Ubuntu (debian). Ubuntu, being based on Debian, has the very best out of box hardware support I've ever found, on top of Ubuntu being geared towards the newbie. Ubuntu installer is the easiest I've ever used, the package manager (2 of them, 1 for newbs, simple Add/Remove, and 1 for advanced users, Synaptic, along with command line options for apt-get and alien) is better than up2date and yast, imho, which many complain aren't newb friendly.
If you can't install Ubuntu, you most likely can't install Windows. The thing comes on a Live CD, and you install after 1 successful boot, where you can test all your hardware, though usually not the HDD. So, if the HDD fails, that's really the one point of failure you don't know about until you go to install. Guess what, genius, I had a HDD failure too, and it was on an Ubuntu install. What'd I do? I GOT A NEW HARD DRIVE! DUH! I've installed another copy of it on a Windows computer, and did a dual boot. What, you didn't think to try dual boot so you could still get back in? Ubuntu Live CD is able to let you in to resize NTFS partitions before even trying to install. You can even auto mount that NTFS in read only to share your Windows information back, and there is a NO BRAINER step by step guide on Ubuntu's site to do that.
If you can't use Ubuntu... you don't need near a computer. The thing will work better out of the box for the legally deaf and blind, much better than average Windows install. So, if you can't use it... just realize even Stevie Wonder could use it, and you're probably a twit. You should be legally barred from owning electronics. Your VCR doesn't just flash 12:00, but probably your watch as well... with a pre-installed battery... and solar charger... with built in radio atomic time setter...
I'm an advanced user, a server admin, and I love the hard core stuff, CLI-only, write my own Perl/bash scripts. One of my favorite games is DroidBattles (the assembly programmers know what I'm talking about). But at home, it's a no brainer - Ubuntu. The community tech support it phenomenal, both in IRC and forums. The hardware support is top of the line. The interface is better than Windows (install Beryl and it's better than Vista). The system is just rock solid on the newb usability scale, and yet it's Linux. The hardest of the hardcore can dig down just as deep as any other Linux system. It's as easy and/or powerful as you want it to be.
Bottom line, UbuntuDupe, in the past 5 days, you've got 4 troll/flame bait mods. Yes, your karma is going bye-bye, and FOR GOOD REASON... you twit. Only a twit wouldn't realize to move the CD burner to the unbricked computer, and only a twit would brick the only computer with a CD burner in the first place.
That computer is bricked because of YOU. Take responsibility for it like a man, like every other person, including myself, who has bricked a system. Unlike you, we learned how to fix a software caused brick, and a hardware caused brick. The only brick I never fixed was a short that fried the board, HDD, and video card all at once that complete and forever destroyed anything useful in that system.
This wasn't your case. You didn't think ahead, nor prepare in any way. You didn't follow recommendations, neither Linux or Windows. You assumed you had a 100% perfect system. You were wrong. You blame Ubuntu. You're still wrong.
That's the point where you just tell the user:
"Hey, guess what pal. You have a bad harddrive, which Windows worked under because it didn't write to the boot sector. Scandisk would have told you this, if you had even followed regularly scheduled scans that came with your Windows. If you had a S.M.A.R.T. harddrive, it probably would have warned you on reboot, or didn't you re
...and I was suprised that he tried all of the steps that he listed, and never tried the one step that was virtually guaranteed to work. All he had to do was the following:
1. Install the Windows OS on the original hard drive.
2. Install the Promise TX2300 RAID card and hard disks onto that system and make sure that the OS recognizes it and loads drivers.
3. Set up his mirrored array.
4. Use Ghost, TrueImage, or some other imaging software (Acronis has a free 15-day trial) to clone the original OS drive onto the mirrored array, resizing the destination partitions in the process.
5. Remove the old disk and boot the system.
I have done this several times using various array controllers on various hardware, including he TX2300 on a pair of HP desktops. It's not only easy, it works every time.
You don't buy a Desktop from HP and expect it to work great as a backup server. You buy a backup server or you build one yourself with an OEM Windows License. Granted the RAID should have had a driver that loads from CD. That's their stupid fault, you can't go blaming Microsoft and HP for this problem.
Read my short stories - You won't regret it.
They're undoubtedly against the EULA - and nobody cares, because the capability is just far too useful to give up. Any Windows tech worth his salt is using the thing and Microsoft undoubtedly know it. You can even put Bart's on a flash drive, although putting any OS on a USB disk is guaranteed to shorten the life of the disk, since they have a limited number of writes. But at $20 for 1GB flash disks these days, it's probably worth it.
Since I don't have any OEM XP CDs, I can't test the possibility. However, it's not much help anyway, since Bart's just allows you to boot a free-running XP separate from whatever is installed on the hard drive. So an OEM CD-based version of Bart's really doesn't get you much. Maybe System File Check could be put on and wouldn't complain about the source disk, but then if you ever had to run SFC from the OS on the hard drive, it probably would complain about the files replaced from the OEM CD. So I don't see the value of an OEM CD over just using the files from a regular XP install.
Bart's, by the way, is not a complete XP - it's merely a "Pre-Execution" environment Bart built that runs like the PE environment XP uses to install. It provides an XP kernel with native access to the NTFS file system and whatever utilities you can cram on the CD, but it's not full Windows XP - there's no desktop at all.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
??? This never happened to me with Lilo.... The only problems I've had seemed to be different OSes tagging the partitions using different CHS units, lilo dies with an error and the fix/ignore options seems to get around this.
I guess just proves my comments about the poor code quality of many offical GNU projects. Proves point a as well. Flaky programs require the same things done over and over until it magically works. That is really bad. You are relying more on luck than skill.
I wouldn't judge a program flakey because of ambiguous problems on a 700MHz computer that should have been scrapped out, I suppose it would have been cheaper to get a new machine than to troubleshoot that dinosaur
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds