iPhone, Apple TV Headline MacWorld Keynote

Steve Jobs kept his audience rapt at the MacWorld keynote today. He rehashed the announcement of the iTV, now called Apple TV, and announced the iPhone, a revolutionary phone/ipod/wrist-computer that had MacWorld attendees sitting on the edge of their seats. Retailing for $499 (4 gig)/$599 (8 gig), it has to be seen to be believed. It uses a touch screen with a new form of input control, runs OSX and many standard applications, and connects to the internet via WiFi. It has a camera, functions as a movie player, a music player, and can send emails and photos in the middle of a phone call. From the Engadget coverage: "'[OSX] let us create desktop class applications and networking, not the crippled stuff you find on most phones, these are real desktop applications.' He's quoting Alan Kay - 'People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware.' 'So we're bringing breakthrough software to a mobile device for the first time.'" Seriously, go check this out. They're going to print money with this thing.

Comments

June in USA, 2008 in Asia... 2015 in Brazil?

[partenon]

If it'll be available in June in USA and 2008 in Asia, when will be available in Brazil? :-( I want that one !!

Re:June in USA, 2008 in Asia... 2015 in Brazil?

[partenon]

By the way, you can see the live transcription of the MacWorld at http://www.macrumorslive.com/ .

Re:June in USA, 2008 in Asia... 2015 in Brazil?

[that this is not und]

only someone relatively poor in today's society would think that $500 is 'a lot' of money.

$500 is more than half a month's mortgage payment. It's two months car payments.

Now, if I were a 20 year old and still living at home, that probably wouldn't be much money to throw around.

I feel sorry for anybody who lives in a region of the United States where $500 isn't a lot of money.

Re:June in USA, 2008 in Asia... 2015 in Brazil?

[I_M_Noman]

only someone actually very old and out of touch would think a phone today is 'just a phone'

Your opinion, pal. To a whole lot of us, a phone is indeed just a phone.

While I think iPhone is nifty, I'd like it a whole lot better if it didn't have a camera. (Can't have a camera when I go into government buildings.) As always, of course, YMMV.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad

[allanc]

Oh man, I was totally with them up until the prices. I was preparing to pull out my credit card and spend an extra few months in debt. But... $500 for a 4gig and $600 for an 8gig? My MP3 collection is 13gigs. I'd have to shell out $500 and I'd *still* have to carry around my iPod. Oh, and also, I'd probably also have to switch from T-Mobile to Cingular.

I'll wait for the next iteration.

Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad

[codeshack]

Yeah, but soon it'll be the iPhone shuffle -- just hit a button and it calls one of your friends at random!

Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad

[daviddennis]

I think Cingular and T-Mobile share the same network, at least in part, so you might actually be getting the same service.

Random access voice mail almost certainly required that they get the cooperation of a specific provider.

The price is a bit high. I'd guessed $499 but without a contract. They could certainly obliverate their competition if they were able to get it cheaper, but this is to the Treo or Sidekick as Final Cut Pro was to Adobe Premiere when it was introduced. In other words, it blasts the competition into smithereens.

I wonder if terminal and ssh are included somewhere in the device. Those nice Blackberry folks charge $95 for ssh and that would make up a lot of the price disadvantage if it was included in the Phone's MacOS X installation.

Finally, when I heard all the stuff that goes on that device, I would think you'd want a 30gb version. 4 and 8 gb of Flash almost seems like an insult for something that powerful. I suppose a hard drive would have made it too big and heavy, but still, people carry around hard drive based iPods just fine, and a hard drive iPod's not much different in size from the sidekick.

It's a pity consumers really love small ...

D

Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad

[_damnit_]

It's probably your phone's fault. In rural areas, T-mobile has a roaming agreement with Cingular. If you can't get T-mobile service, you should roam to Cingular on 850Mhz. Same as dropping the 1800Mhz Cingular signal and picking up the 850 GSM when you're a Cingular customer.

I have driven across the country a few times and had good coverage from T-mobile (sometimes roaming on Cingular and other networks) most of the way. I-70 between Reno and Salt Lake City is a vast dead zone, so if that area matters to you, then maybe someone has a CDMA signal there.

Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad

[thegameiam]

Cingular and T-Mobile do not share the same network.

There are 4 major wireless networks in the USA currently:
Cingular
Verizon Wireless (CDMA)
Sprint/Nextel
T-Mobile

Cingular and T-Mobile do share the same network technology (GSM/GPRS), which might be what you're thinking of.

Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad

[squiggleslash]

At one point, on the West Coast, Cingular and T-Mobile jointly ran a GSM network called "GSM Facilities", which both T-Mobile and Cingular phone SIMs treated as the "home" network. That agreement was dissolved when Cingular merged with AT&T Wireless over a year ago, but people are still convinced they're the same network, despite the fact this arrangement was only operational in a small part of the country, and no longer exists.

Hence the confusion. Well, that, and T-Mobile being the latest name for Voicestream, Omnipoint, etc, and thus a "new" network nobody's ever heard of.

Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad

[soft_guy]

I agree. Having it limited to 8GB of storage means that whatever music I don't have with me will be exactly what I want to hear (because my subconscious mind is a sadistic fuck, that's why.)

Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad

[daviddennis]

That is indeed what I was thinking of; I lived in Southern California at the time, and the memory of this stuck.

I stand corrected.

D

Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad

[MrPerfekt]

Is it a shock to you that the iPhone is primarily a phone?

It's clearly an iPod second. After all, if you were to have a smartphone without mp3 playing capability, you'd look pretty silly.

Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad

[geognerd]

The iPhone shuffle already exists. It's called having a few shots at the bar and pulling out your cell phone. Better known as drunk dialing.

Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad

[Masque]

T-Mobile, however, does have a roaming agreement in place with Cingular.

Why is this critically important? Well, for those lucky T-Mobile folks with phones that'll work with Cingular's 850Mhz GSM towers, they drastically improved their indoor coverage.

This, to me, is what "sharing" means. If you have a toy and you let the neighbors play with it, you're sharing your toy. Cingular's sharing its toy. The two share the toy. The toy is shared?

Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad

[that this is not und]

Whew, this thing is starting to sound almost as expensive as doing business with Steve Jobs back when he was a coke dealer.

Re:Wireless, but still less space than a Nomad

[ruiner13]

Come on, this is slashdot. For people here, even at random it would still only call mommy.

"Never seen a presentation like this before"

[zookie]

Even for those who cover all the MacWorld talks, this was BIG:

"People are rapt, everyone is actually literally leaning forward and on the edge of their seat. We've never seen a presentation like this before."

Re:"Never seen a presentation like this before"

[sokoban]

Even for those who cover all the MacWorld talks, this was BIG:
 
 

"People are rapt, everyone is actually literally leaning forward and on the edge of their seat. We've never seen a presentation like this before."
 

I've seen a presentation like this before.

People were rapt.

And they were actually literally leaning forward on the edge of their seat.

But then this chick threw a hammer up on the stage and got escorted out by security.
Here's a video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1350418123 536412275&q=apple+1984+commercial

What you have really been waiting for.

[cloudkiller]

Just announced, Microsoft confirms the Plume. It's a phone that's 3 ½ inches thick, runs the full- blown windows vista, plays the new we-promise-it-will-always-play DRM'd music and has 9600 baud dial up modem, and has the ability to take and print pictures with optional ink and paper tray attachment. Welcome to the social, now where is everyone.

I've been waiting for that all day.....

Re:What you have really been waiting for.

[vancondo]

Yeah, but can they beat over 200 patents for advances like a touch screen?

It may be the coolest gadget around, but its no Newton!

Ah. Memories. Very heavy Memories..

--
http://vancouvercondo.info

Re:What you have really been waiting for.

[identity0]

Microsoft's response was big and brown, but it wasn't a new Zune...

Re:What you have really been waiting for.

[0xdeadbeef]

Or the Apple iPhone that is just like the 50 or so Windows Mobile phones that have been on the market for the last what 3 years.

With one difference - the user interface, from both a hardware and software perspective, doesn't totally suck. This thing is going to eat Microsoft's lunch in the mobile market.

Alternate Name

[Lev13than]

"NewtonberrySP"

Price to high

[Joe The Dragon]

$499 (4 gig) $599 (8 gig) with a 2 year plan is a lot and Cingular forces you get a smart phone data contract plan with a smart phone to get the 2 year deal price.
It is $ 40 just for the data.
So like you will $60 + month $40 for data $20 + for voice.

Re:Price to high

[vought]

So like you will $60 + month $40 for data $20 + for voice.

And those prices will be exactly the same in June because you can see the future.

Seriously - they'll be able to sell data in volume now. Price will drop or be bundled with voice.

This device makes data compelling for everyone else - not just Johnny Businessman. It is what the phone companies built the data networks for in the first place.

Re:Price to high

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would they charge less for it when they could charge the same?

Any mention of other carriers getting ahold of it? If so, then we'll entertain the notion of prices going down.

Re:Price to high

[Danathar]

Who says you have to subscribe and use the phone function? How long do you think before it has skype running on it?

Re:Price to high

[GweeDo]

It was announced as exclusive to Cingular for at least two years.

Re:Price to high

[no_such_user]

Yes, but wireless bandwidth is not infinite...

Re:Price to high

[Midnight Thunder]

It was announced as exclusive to Cingular for at least two years.

When you see Cingular's coverage, in the USA, its clear why Apple went with them:

GSM 1900, GSM 850, 3G 850/1900

Re:Price to high

[JWW]

I agree completely. Coming from somewhere with absolutely no Cingular presence whatsoever, I would be VERY interested in an iPhone that doesn't have any phone capability at all. I sure hope there are plans for an iPod with all these features except the phone bits. Oh and with a 30Gb capacity too :-)

I can understand where they'd want to introduce the full blown phone first as they appear to be going to the FCC for approval right now. So now they can go ahead and build an iPod with the same components and release that in June too.

I want that screen.

[DJ_Adequate]

I hope they move that screen onto the larger iPods. I don't really need a new phone, and it won't hold enough for me at 8 gig anyway--but put that high-res screen on an iPod video and I'd pay the $599 in a heartbeat. My only disappointment is that for all the hardware and software advances this thing provides, it's still locked into the carriers 'two-year contract' business model.

CES?

[vought]

CE-What?

"And in other news, flights from Las Vegas to San Francisco immediately sold out today..."

Covet, covet

[plover]

OK, where do I have to go to stand in line?

Great phone, shitty provider

[jgaynor]

I was drooling during the presentation - I could even stomach the price tag, but not with a provider (Cingular) who charges like $60/month plus taxes for unlimited data. This is a DATA device. Yes it's a phone, but all of the live data eye-candy is worthless if it only works within 40 feet of your house or local WAP. The $500 or $600 is only the beginning, you're going to pay FAR out the ass over the life of this phone.

Re:Great phone, shitty provider

[aurumaeus]

It's GSM, Apple will sell it separately, presumably unlocked, so you can use it on T-Mobile in stead. Probably pay an extra $100 up front for it.

Re:Great phone, shitty provider

[Serious Callers Only]

Will they sell it separately?

If they do, I'd buy one, even at this price or higher. If they don't, I'll never buy one. Many people on this story seem to share this sentiment - I wonder why Apple felt the need to tie this phone to a carrier?

Re:Great phone, shitty provider

[ear1grey]

Did Fon just get a whole new market segment?

Re:Great phone, shitty provider

[plover]

Funny, I'm paying $20/month for unlimited GPRS data from Cingular. Just get the data plan on your phone. The plan doesn't care who's requesting data, whether it be the phone or the computer. You don't have to get a special "plan" for your laptop unless you're not smart enough to figure out how to interconnect them on your own.

Re:Great phone, shitty provider

[ivan256]

On my Sprint Treo, the unlimited data is $15.

$30 is unreasonable.

Re:Great phone, shitty provider

[steelfood]

I'll be willing to bet insane amounts of money that Cingular has a stake in the project too. Otherwise, there's no reason for Apple to tie the phone to one carrier.

No one's going to buy this with Cingular, especially at that price point with a contract. Most people who use blackberries--business customers, mainly--are not going to be attracted to the other features, and since this thing is two to three times the price of a high-end blackberry, there's no reason to replace the existing devices with this one.

Now, if any unlocked units come out, they might be better received. After all, it makes for an awesome PDA, video viewer, and mp3 player in one package. And, it might even work with networks other than Cingular as a basic phone. But that's still not enough for wide adoption at the current prices. And that's assuming that there will be unlocked units.

What they should've done was released a new series of video ipods with the present storage sizes of 4, 8, 30, and 80 GB (the 2GB would be too small to be useful), the fancy screen upgrades, HDD and flash, and the wireless at these prices (sans any required contract). That would've gotten people's attention. And I'm certain it would be next Christmas' big thing. The iPhone could've been released separately as it is now, even with the contract tie-in. This way, Apple can recoup their R&D losses with the iPod sales while they establish a foothold in the mobile phone market.

As it stands now, it's an awesome product and all, but only a few people will actually buy it. Lots of wow. But they're not going to see much of a return for a long time.

Re:Great phone, shitty provider

[0xdeadbeef]

You assume Apple will sell it unlocked? So far I haven't even found confirmation that it will run third-party software. I can't imagine a more jealously possesive control-freak combination than Apple joining forces with a cell carrier. I'm shocked they didn't pick Verizon for that reason.

Re:Great phone, shitty provider

[el_gordo101]

I'm shocked they didn't pick Verizon for that reason.

They tried to get them on board, but Verizon:

• Wanted to replace the pretty Aqua interface with their own ugly red and black UI - Jobs told them to go shit in their hat.
• Wanted to disable POP, IMAP, bluetooth and WiFi on the device - Jobs told them to go shit in their hat.
• Wanted to charge $2 each for ringtones and song files - Jobs told them to go shit in their hat.
• Wanted to charge outrageous fees for the data plan - Jobs said, sure whatever.

WITH Contract

[MindStalker]

Thats $599 WITH a 2 year Cingular contract.

ARG thats insane. Probably $899 by itself if even available.

Re:WITH Contract

[daviddennis]

Cingular brought the cooperation needed to create random access voice mail. If you think of how often you have gone through saved voice mail messages in search of the one you really want, you can see how important that is.

I think Cingular and T-Mobile are related in network service, at least in some places. I know T-Mobile has traditionally had the worst service but the best handsets.

I expected Apple to offer an unlocked phone, so I'm a bit disappointed in that regard. But to do the new features, you need cooperation from the network, so it would probably be inevitable. It's really too bad since I may move to the Philippines in the next year or so, and they won't be in Asia until 2008 :-(. Well, maybe they'll have 3G by then. I'm a bit disappointed at the use of EDGE.

Despite all this, there's no question that I will buy this phone as long as I'm staying in the US. Once I have a move-out date it will depend on how many features work without the special cooperation from the network.

D

Re:WITH Contract

[geoffspear]

Umm no. "With contract" means that's the discounted price you get on the hardware when you sign the contract, not that you don't have to pay Cingular's fees too.

Re:WITH Contract

[that this is not und]

Can the iPod be ordered in beige?

The name

[moofdaddy]

CNBC is reporting that apple was in negotiations with CISCO over the name into last night. They're supposed to sign all the paper work today, but its still unclear who will own it and how much apple will pay.

Re:The name

[Duncan3]

No reason they would treat him any better then they do their customers.

Safe to assume they are bending poor Steve over a desk on this one.

Re:The name

[terrymr]

The could just call it Phone .. that would be inline with Keyboard, Mouse and a bunch of other Apple products.

Battery life?

[chemical55]

Any word on battery life on this thing?

Re:Battery life?

[sRev]

Pretty sure he said 5 hours talk time and 16 hours of "just music" playback.

Re:Battery life?

[dfghjk]

No, because it's better than many smartphones today, if it's to be believed, and it's adequate for nightly charging.

The fatal flaw, if there is one, is likely the total lack of buttons. The claim that texting will be better than with a true thumb keyboard and the total lack of tactile feedback are real questions. Most other products have really suffered with this approach.

Insane hardware -- a few thoughts/concerns

[SilentChris]

I'm not really an Apple geek but that's some really insane hardware for the form factor. The price is hefty, but I'm impressed they packed in what they could to something that slim. It's going to be a hacker's wet dream.

A few small thoughts:

1.) No 3G. Wi-fi, Bluetooth, etc. are nice though.
2.) They push it as an internet device, with messaging/email/etc. but lack of a physical keyboard? I don't know. I mean, I know and you know we'll love it regardless, but will this really sway the Blackberry junkies?
3.) What is this thing really running? "OS X"? FreeBSD -- they mean that? I'd be curious also what the chips are (no way in hell is PortalPlayer powering graphics like this).

Very cool device. Should be impossible to find, but I'll get one anyway. :)

Re:Insane hardware -- a few thoughts/concerns

[falcon5768]

Its running OS X from what I have read. As to if this is a OS X I dont know, but from what people have said it will run normal Apps on it, so it might likely be the full blown version.

Re:Insane hardware -- a few thoughts/concerns

[korbin_dallas]

Really, if you just dropped $600 for a phone another $179 is just change...
Bluetooth keyboard.
Get one here... http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/8193/

Re:Insane hardware -- a few thoughts/concerns

[otis wildflower]

Its running OS X from what I have read.

If so, then Whither Inkwell?

Re:Insane hardware -- a few thoughts/concerns

[dr.badass]

but lack of a physical keyboard? I don't know.

The screen appears to be able to distinguish between light and firm pressure (IIRC, Apple has a patent to this effect). The on-screen keys enlarge with light pressure, and register a click with firm pressure, which I imagine significantly reduces the error rate from accidental presses vs. for example, a Palm touch-screen. I imagine it responds much more like a real keyboard, which probably matters more than the tactile feedback of a rubbery button.

Also, since it has a standard iPod dock connector, it's probable that you'll see 3rd party keyboards by the time it launches.

"OS X"? FreeBSD -- they mean that?

It's entirely possible (compare any number of Linux-based portable devices, like the Nokia 770), and I doubt Apple would choose not to use what they have available. The question is where does the iPhone's OS X diverge from Mac OS X, and how easy is Apple going to make it to develop for?*

(* if I put a quarter in my "end a sentence with a preposition" jar, I'll be able to afford an iPhone by june.)

Not LAME!

[Prien715]

Finally it has wireless and more space than a nomad! Truly unlame;)

(For those of you not in on the joke)

Re:Not LAME!

[spyder913]

Less buttons than a Nomad =(

Re:Leopard?

[Moby Cock]

Sadly no. The Keynote focused on the Apple TV and th iPhone.

Meanwhile, in Redmond

[bonch]

Ballmer is all out of chairs.

Re:Meanwhile, in Redmond

[neo]

Absolutely not true. I'm 100% sure that Balmer is sitting on a nice big stool of his on creation.

iPhone is disappointing

[0racle]

Cingular exclusive. That sucks. The announced prices are with a 2yr contract as well. Other then not switching my service just for a phone merged with a iPod, the device could have been made so much better as the return of the Newton. I was hoping for a smart phone that would work with almost any service, sync to my MacBook and could act as a bluetooth modem.

Only interesting thing to wait for now is a release date for Leopard.

Re:iPhone is disappointing

[Bert64]

How soon before this comes out in Europe? All mobile networks in europe are GSM, and our denser population means the coverage is a lot better.

Name Change

[jivemonkey]

Not mentioned in the article Apple Computer, inc. has changed it's name to Apple, inc. Just a tidbit I thought I would mention.

They've done it

[hcdejong]

Finally, a phone with a usable UI. Steve was right to refer to the 1984 introduction of the Mac. The iPhone looks to be just as much of a quantum leap.

Cingular only? For shame, Apple!

[bheer]

Seriously, why couldn't this have been network-independent? Surely they don't expect Apple folk to lemming-like move to Cingular?

Re:Cingular only? For shame, Apple!

[technomancerX]

Yup, I would have bought one in a heartbeat if it was unlocked... but they'd have to pay me to switch to Cingular, as they are HORRIBLE in my area.

Re:Cingular only? For shame, Apple!

[cowscows]

I think there a few reasons why it's only Cingular. A big one being that the phone companies make a lot of money by charging their users for all sorts of extra little features, and so they've kept very tight control on the features that their phones and networks offer. Giving up that control is a risky move for Cingular, and probably took a good bit of negotiation to work out. A period of exclusivity sounds like a likely concession that Apple had to make to get this deal to work.

But even beyond that, if this phone takes off and cements itself into the public the way the iPod has, then a couple years from now, the other phone companies could be begging Apple to offer the iPhone for their networks. Just like the success of the iTMS gives Apple some decent leverage for dealing with the music industry, they're hoping to have that leverage with the phone companies, so that they can work out better deals in the future.

Thirdly (is that a word?), this is Apple's first jaunt into the world of mobile phones. There's bound to be problems. Having just one provider to deal with while working through most of these issues will make things easier, and by the time they're ready to expand, a lot of the rough edges will have been smoothed out.

We've already waited years and years for Apple to release a phone. A couple more won't hurt.

Say what?

[RasputinAXP]

They're going to print money with this thing.

Not at that price tag, they're not. That's with a two year agreement with Cingular. That's way, way beyond most peoples' price points, and with "only" 4 or 8 gigs of storage, it's roughly useless for the people who WOULD use it.

It's a hybrid bastardization of several products that turned out to be a poor idea.

There should have been a touch screen iPod announced as well, for those of us who have other, more sane cell providers.

Re:Say what?

[Deep Fried Geekboy]

I suspect that this may turn out to be the 2007 equivalent of Cmdr Taco's infamous iPod post.

Re:Say what?

[LDAPMAN]

You must have missed this part: IT IS A TOUCH SCREEN IPOD! So a VERY smart phone and an ipod for $500...not too bad. There is likely to be a version without the phone soon as well.

Re:Say what?

[Der PC]

Battery... Battery Up to 5 hours Talk / Video / Browsing Up to 16 hours Audio playback But how long in standby ? On my first GSM phone ( back in '94 ) I had to charge the phone (big as a building brick) once to twice a week. Today, I still have to charge my phone twice a week (at least). If that phone is charge-daily or bi-daily, it will be a "cool flop" in just a few weeks after release. One thing a phone has to have is good standby. At least 160-200 hrs. I want the standby time. Apple. Hear me, hear me.

Re:Say what?

[fermion]

The RAZR started at that price, and still sold well enough to bring motorola to a respectable position.

Apple wants a small part of the market to start. Unlike other cell phones, Apple is making money off every sale. They are not dumping the hardware hoping that market share will magically bring profits.

One also has to look at the full package. Most cell phones are feature compromised. Most cell phones require additional purchases to work with a computer. Most cell phones are only well integrated with the PC, and are no integrated at all with the Mac. The reason this phone is a value is because it is feature complete. You will not buy and find that a feature has been turned off, or you need to spend another $100 dollars for software. At least on a mac, everything you need is there. I am not saying that this phone is really worth the money, just that after buying my RAZR the sales person told me it would be another $100 to hook it up to my computer. Fortunately I had a mac and my own cable. So the costs on the apple phone are up front, while the other phones nickel and dime you.

As far as cingular, I am surprised they found anyone that was willing to give up the provider gravy train and allow such a phone. No need to pay $2 for ringtones. No need to use airtime to download songs. Given Verizon's huge monthly fees, and their lack of customer respect, I doubt they were even willing to talk about giving up the gravy train. Verizon does often have better coverage, but to me they have lost the war when it comes to value.

Re:Say what?

[DysenteryInTheRanks]

I love how people will gladly pay this and much more for a computer that does NOT:

*fit in the palm of your hand
*have a touchscreen
*have an OS redesigned around the touchscreen
*have a display
*make and receive phone calls
*deliver email the very second it arrives on the server

But package a computer -- a full blown one running Mac OS X -- into a tiny, shiny device, and people complain about a $600 pricetag.

Why?

Because the computer is SMALL.

Guess what? If anything, you should pay extra for that.

Just because your brain stem equates it with a Snickers bar, LG cell phone, TV remote control or Palm PDA due to its size does not mean its value is anywhere near as low.

Re:Say what?

[jrstewart]

Actually GPS is integrated. The more interesting question is whether it's an open platform or not. Since it's OS X based one can hope. Since it's billed as another iPod it seems unlikely though.

The price will come down. The exclusive carrier agreement was probably the only way that Apple could get any carrier on board on the terms they wanted. Remember the ROKR? It was crippled because short-sighted carriers demanded ridiculous limitations to the device.

Re:Say what?

[dr.badass]

That's way, way beyond most peoples' price points,

It's only slightly higher than existing smartphones that have fewer features.

and with "only" 4 or 8 gigs of storage, it's roughly useless for the people who WOULD use it.

How do you figure? Most smartphones include less than 1GB of storage, and are at best expandable (at added expense) to about 2GB. The Treo 750, at $399+2 year Cingular contract only includes 128MB.

Re:Say what?

[CODiNE]

How do you figure? Most smartphones include less than 1GB of storage, and are at best expandable (at added expense) to about 2GB. The Treo 750, at $399+2 year Cingular contract only includes 128MB.

Eh, I got a new Treo 650 from Sprint for $150 with a hidden price-matching option. I then got a 4GB Adata SD card off eBay for something like $80. Had to use the ROM updating tool (grack.com) but it can now see the whole card and who knows how much larger?

Hopefully when the 8GB and 16GB cards come out I'll be able to read those too. Upgradable memory is very nice. I love Apple, but I see the memory size for what it is... a future upgrade guarantee. Adding an SD slot would have made this the phone that could last me forever, but as it stands I'm quite content with what I have and don't see any REAL NEED for me to get it.

On the other hand if they added video out I would sell the MBP and get an iMac, then use the iPhone for my presentations. I'm sure Steve has already thought of that, the iPhone is intentially designed so as to not canniblize the laptop market.

An interesting time for Mac developers

[Chief Typist]

Since this new device runs OSX, it's a great time for those of us with Mac development experience. A whole new (and huge) market for our products.

Likewise, there's a new incentive for Windows-only applications to get ported to OSX so they can run on the iPhone.

Personally, I think that the term "revolutionary" gets used way too much. But in the case of the iPhone, it seems appropriate.

-ch

Re:An interesting time for Mac developers

[wandazulu]

I agree...I've been developing Mac apps for awhile and already have some ideas for this thing. I can't wait to see what kind of dev tools they include in XCode 3 for it.

Plus, the idea of having an open ssh session to your phone/ipod/whatever is kinda cool (in a geek sort of way).

Re:Leopard?

[jsight]

That's not the reason. Vista has already been released to manufacturing, and there certainly would not be any significant changes between now and consumer availability (real soon now).

Just one more thing... it's an ebook reader.

[Catbeller]

My oldest dream. A real ebook reader.

Even if we get a simple text file display app, the ebook is finally here.

Beatles

[Ducon Lajoie]

Did anyone notice all the Beatles songs displayed during the keynote? That, and the name change to Apple inc., suggest to me that they came to an agreement with Apple records on the long-standing name and distribution issues.

Re:Beatles

[BlueRayMan]

Noticed. But iTunes still DOES NOT pull down my Beatles album art, nor does their store yield search results for any real Beatles tunes...
Help! (Gotta put in your own Beatles album art.)

On the bright side, optical discs still boast higher quality than downloads!!

Re:Beatles

[jkerman]

yep! back in may. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_C omputer

Re:Ownd

[vought]

Dear Motorola:

Thanks for taking so long with the 620. And for dragging your feet with the 603 . Oh - and the higher frequency G4s? Thanks for taking so long with that.

Hope your margins are more than RAZR thin!

Signed,

Apple, Inc.

Impact to GPS device market? Automotive use?

[Tackhead]

> It uses a touch screen with a new form of input control, runs OSX and many standard applications, and connects to the internet via WiFi.

Assuming WiFi connectivity becomes widespread, I can see Google Maps printing money with this thing too. (If there's no WiFi available, but a cellular tower is within range, Cingular might be able to print money for the data shuffled back and forth while running an application like Google Maps.)

Biggest loser might be GPS device makers: Why spend $500 for a portable GPS unit when you can have the same thing (and get the "killer app" of Google-searchable maps, plus the nice bonus of satellite imagery, which can't be done on a portable GPS unit) in your phone for the same price?

I can also see a nice automotive aftermarket opportunity here. One of these things mounted on the dash, or in an aftermarket console/tray, would be an ergonomic (read: safer) way to do aftermarket GPS.

Re:Leopard and June 1

[Picass0]

You might also notice the iphone doesn't ship until June. Sounds like the iPhone will run Leopard.

Also out: Airport Extreme 802.11n

[vought]

Not anounced in the keynote, but Apple is shipping a mini/tv form-factor 802.11n hub. Appletv will have 802.11n.

Re:Also out: Airport Extreme 802.11n

[Kadin2048]

One assumes that it can play those files and will just scale them down to 720p on playback, since that's the most that its video circuits apparently support.

This would be the expected behavior if it works like other Quicktime applications do -- if you run Quicktime Player on a 720x480px display (fullscreen) and play a high-definition source, it will just get scaled down and letterboxed.

I would just tend to worry about the datarates of 1080i MPEG2 material; I haven't played much with these 802.11n routers but I have a suspicion that if you have any sort of electrical interference on them at all, you're not going to see advertised speeds. It would make sense to downrez files on the transmitting end and not send the 1080i signal over the air, if the playback device only supported 720p. Of course, that complicates the server end of it.

Re:Also out: Airport Extreme 802.11n

[azav]

http://www.apple.com/airportextreme/

Enjoy.

Re:Also out: Airport Extreme 802.11n

[Fahrenheit 450]

No. The blurb from the tech page says:

TV compatibility:
Enhanced-definition or high-definition widescreen TVs capable of 1080i 60/50Hz, 720p 60/50Hz, 576p 50Hz (PAL format), or 480p 60Hz

CNET confirms it

[WidescreenFreak]

I didn't see anything on CNBC's web site, but CNET says that heard it directly from Cisco.

10:32--Cisco calls CNET News.com reporter with a statement about Apple's use of the term "iPhone" for its new product. "Given Apple's numerous requests for permission to use Cisco's iPhone trademark over the past several years and our extensive discussions with them recently, it is our belief that with their announcement today, Apple intends to agree to the final document and public statements that were distributed to them last night and that address a few remaining items we expect to receive a signed agreement today."

Compare and contrast

[Klaruz]

Oct 23, 2001: "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."

Jan 9, 2007: "Seriously, go check this out. They're going to print money with this thing."

Re:Compare and contrast

[Llywelyn]

So does this mean the iPhone is doomed?

Re:Compare and contrast

[glindsey]

Oct 23, 2001: "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."

What amazes me about this is that the iPod was introduced after September 11th. It is so ubiquitous now, so ingrained into our media and culture, that I had completely forgotten it is, comparatively, such a recent product.

I think that's really a testament to how good Apple marketing and design departments are.

Re:iPhone...

[garcia]

Make it open to all providers and thus anyone that has GSM could use the phone rather than tying us down to one -- the worst one...

Tech specs available at apple.com

[Dster76]

Tech specs

Re:Tech specs available at apple.com

[forkazoo]

Those specs don't seem to include a lot of the actual specs... Which I find odd. If this were a mobile OS-X device of my dreams, I'd know what sort of processor it has, and what sort of graphics hardware, etc. Unfortunately, it seems like they may plan on pushing it like a phone. Locked down, limited access to development tools, etc. That really could completely kill my interest in the device. Why is the fact that it runs OS X interesting to me if I can't easily program it? Am I supposed to get some pointless pride in the fact that in runs a particular kernel I can't interact with? Is it supposed to be more impressive to me than a phone running some other kernel if I can't actually see any difference?

zune brown?

[freg]

was that a Zune-brown turtleneck Steve was wearing?

Contracts

[goombah99]

Most folks have 2 year contracts and at any given time half of them are less than 1 year in. Additionally bussinesses may have other sorts of contracts that employees must follow. Hence there's inertia in the system. Rich folks might take the bullet and eat the contract penalites on their current phone--after all if you're paying $600 for the phone plus paying a premium for the high level services like "visula voice messageing", and you probably have a wi-fi hotspot contract too, you're not going to care that much about a penalty price of a contract to get out of.

The rest of us won't or cant' switch (cingular is not so good in rural areas). So cingular for a few years then they let in the other players, the price drops and we unwashed get ours after all the bugs are worked out.

Some other thoughts
1) The use of WiFi and the ability to have ringtones and pictures that don't cost you 2 bucks a pop from the phone company is a daring move for Cingular. WiFi means that these can be Skype phones too. So Cingular has a window of opportunity before WiFi and wimax becom ubquitous to get these folks as loyal customers while they develope some sort of way to make people pay for wifi voip.

2) Second, this is actually great news for microsoft, palm, and everyone except balckberry. Since the iphone is cingular only there's going to be huge demand for this level of phonage tech for all the other phone services. They have to get these from some body. With apple having signed an exclusive deal with cingular the other 99% of the market will be crying out. The next generation Zune will likely look a lot like this plus it will propbably have a built in Wii controller for xbox

3) And speaking of Wii, The apple phone has built in blue tooth and accelerometers, plus all sorts of gripping hand input modes. I wonder if it can do absolute positioning in space--maybe with that camera on the back. if so then this woul dbe an awesome game controller. rig this the the iTV (not the wii) and apple is set. Now the price looks even cheaper since you already have the home computer--if it can do the wiii thing too well bite me. Of course you'll need a couple input devices..

Re:Contracts

[geoffspear]

It might not be so much an issue of Apple "letting in" the other wireless companies as the carriers not wanting a phone like this. I can assure you that nothing I've seen from Verizon Wireless makes me believe they'd ever be willing to sell a phone that's able to sync with a PC in any way. They'd sooner go bankrupt than let one of their customers rip MP3s from a CD and put them on their phone instead of paying Verizon $2 per track to download a crappy copy that can't be played on other devices. Your carrier may vary.

Re:Contracts

[goombah99]

Well yes, those ring tones are a nice profit margin billion dollar industry (not exagerating!). But remember the folks that will buy these are going to have preimum voice+data contracts too. the ringtone market won't matter so much in that case. Moreover if verizons phones are the zune++ then we can be pretty sure that MS will accomodate the carriers wishes (just like how Vista is accomodating the MPAA): Windows-CE will lock them down tight with drm and maybe not let you buy ring tones outside the approved source.

Re:Contracts

[Da_Biz]

...and, my roommate has this phone. It's certainly not bad, but Jobs' keynote speech really did hit the nail on the head on the awkwardness of this and similar phones.

My roommate's general comment: "it's really great, but one of the most difficult things to do with this phone is actually use it as one."

Re:Contracts

[mozumder]

I have one. It's big as a brick. Battery lasts less than a day on standby. Not recommended at all, except maybe as a backup Wi-fi web thing for your main phone.

Apple iPhone can't come soon enough.

Re:Contracts

[jaweekes]

I have one (Sprint PPC-6800. It's the same model though) and it really does do cool things, but it really sucks as a phone! My company purchased it for me so I can remote into the servers with it via Terminal Services and VPN, but this Apple IPhone is what I really want.

Proximity sensors so it turns off the touchscreen when it's close to your ear! I can not tell you how much of a problem that is on the 6800.

Re:Contracts

[aikon29]

I, too, have one of those and I can't recommend it to anyone.

Windows Mobile seems to like to freeze every now and then so I'll miss calls without knowing it until I try and turn on the screen and see nothing but black. The phone is also HUGE. It's not fun to carry it around in your pocket one bit.

I'm not the only one I know that has one of these or other Windows Mobile phones. Some other people I work with have them and they freeze on them as well.

Re:Contracts

[EggyToast]

Cingular is surprising in how open its phones are. If there's a USB plug, or bluetooth, you can pretty much be sure that if you got it through Cingular you can sync up your address book and move files onto/off of the device simply by connecting it.

Which, of course, means that its features get used that much more. I can experiment with ringtones based on my own music library, or actually use it to take pictures that aren't stuck on the phone. I can't do *everything* on it, but most of the important things people want to do to customize their phones are possible out of the box.

So, to me, this iPhone thing isn't surprising at all. Cingular isn't out to nickel/dime people for inherent features, and they're already using GSM (so Apple only has to support one network for the whole world). The only thing I'm skeptical of is the internet features. It's still a f'n expensive phone, though.

Re:Contracts

[altoz]

Hey, this is a GREAT looking device. But I have this weird feeling it's not a very good phone.

For instance, why is the battery time just 5-16 hours? You mean, you have to keep the thing charged most of the time? Might as well be a laptop, then (and at these prices it pretty much is).

It also seems a little bulky for a phone. It's essentially designed for women with handbags. It's not likely to fit into my pocket without fear it'll break.

My guess is that early adopters will get it and use it, but for the general masses, this won't be something they get for another 6 years, unlike the iPod.

Re:Contracts

[Prophet of Nixon]

That problem might be caused by the biggest software flaw on the phone (and if you already know this, ignore me):

It doesn't close built-in and first-party applications when you close them (many third-party apps do close properly).

If the phone is sluggish, misses calls, or locks (doesn't come out of standy instantly), go to: Start->Settings->System->Memory->Running Programs and hit "Stop All" (or just stop the ones you want).

Unfortunately, there's no way to pin this control panel to the start menu or to place a shortcut to it in a more accessible spot, but it should stop the phone from being sluggish. Window Live mobile, while awesome, is the biggest offender I've found in this regard, it frequently makes the phone unresponsive in standby if I leave it running.

Re:Contracts

[mgabrys_sf]

Verizon cripples their phones by turning off any OBEX capability. Basically the bluetooth can only synch with address lists. That's it. Photos, tunes, anything else basically is locked out. You can hack it - but trust me - this isn't a simple task. I work with a cell-phone software company, but not everyone else does. Having an open-phone that has as much functionality as an ipod as a phone - and a camera that matches the pixels of my current cannon mini is very - very tempting indeed. I'd probably keep the Verizon just for the family calling plan it's attached to until it expires, and use Apple's as my main-phone.

Re:Contracts

[ObiWanKenblowme]

I'm going to pick on you a little bit since yours is the first post I've read mentioning battery life. Why is that such a big deal? I could understand if you were literally going to be on the phone all day, but assuming you'd have a more normal usage pattern, why is it so difficult to drop a phone into a dock (which they mentioned the iPhone will have) or plug in a charger when you get home at the end of the day? Sure, longer battery life is always nice, and I don't always remember to keep my phone charged either, but is having to plug in a cord once a day really such a hassle? :)

A more important issue to me would be, does the iPhone have an "offline" mode that turns off the phone while still letting you use the iPod, say, on a plane?

Re:Contracts

[93 Escort Wagon]

"Cingular is surprising in how open its phones are. If there's a USB plug, or bluetooth, you can pretty much be sure that if you got it through Cingular you can sync up your address book and move files onto/off of the device simply by connecting it."

It's the same with T-Mobile - their phones are uncrippled. Quite a nice change from my days as a Verizon customer. Of course as a T-Mobile customer I won't be able to get an Apple phone; but as cool as they look I don't really know that I want that particular feature set.

I know Apple goes out of its way to not step on its own product announcements, so I'm betting on a (near) future announcement for their widescreen iPods. That's what I really want... I just hope my 3G iPod's battery doesn't totally crap out before that day.

Re:Contracts

[JulesLt]

See the internet features more as a projection of the future - I can't see myself paying my network at their data rates to use them, or even at most wifi hotspots, but I spend most of my day at work or home, within range of private WiFi networks, and I could see myself using a device like this for a lot of light browsing tasks (reading email, etc) - and using widgets and the Amazon / Ebay APIs, someone is bound to make a better scaled interface (the zooming in / out would get annoying - it's why I gave up the PSP as a web device after a brief experiment).

Going forward - you can already see the cross contracts for wifi hotspots with network providers - and people like Murdoch and NTL/Virgin going for combined mobile/TV/broadband/phone packages. The obvious thing is a 'one-stop shop' contract, which is what consumers want (even if they're better off shopping around).

You're right that about it being expensive though. I presume we'll see most of the UI re-used in the next full-size iPod revision, and to be honest just that with a wireless internet connection would keep me more than happy.

Re:Contracts

[Brandee07]

Cingular has a good selection of phones, good plans, and good coverage (in my area). Cheapest family plan I could find anywhere, and the bundled "free" phone wasn't a 1980s brick like the one T-mobile tried to give me.

The one thing that kills Cingular is the customer service. I've spent upwards of 6 hours being bounced around their call centers and my issue STILL hasn't been fixed... and I know I'm not alone in that. My friend used to work in Purchasing for a major company that used Cingular for all their company phones, and he was the one that got to call their customer support weekly for any number of different issues. He had tons of horror stories.

Re:Contracts

[jonnyelectronic]

You can get a third party app called magicbutton which does what you want. By default it will close something if you push the X, but you can set up inclusions/exclusions, so that frequency used apps stay in the background.

I suggest heading over to http://www.modaco.com/

Re:Contracts

[felonious]

I support around 50 users of the 6600, which blows, and I've been testing the 6700. These specif phones or really just PDA's with basic phone functionality added. My company uses these phones in tandem with Fujistu Lifebooks to send orders, update db's, etc. We also use Goodlink on the phones, which works great, except for an issue to two.

Here are my notes on the 6700, if you're curious, after a weeks use....

First phone, unusable after a few hours. Had the BSOD equivalent but it was WSOD instead. Had to be replaced.

EDIT - Figured out the reason for this error. If you have Goodlink installed and enable the password protection, included on the device,
You are stuck with no way out. You must hard reset and start over.
After a hard reset or a fresh setup of the device, you must skip the password setup, or you'll have to hard reset and start over.

Synch issues -
Windows Firewall must be disabled to sync. Had to connect the cable directly to the phone, as it would not sync through the cradle. Seems random after numerous tries. Seems to work either way, now.

Battery -
Seems to have a much shorter life and if Wifi is on, the battery dies very fast.

Goodlink -
Menus are a little different, but seems to run fine/same

WModem -
Now defaults to USB with no serial option
The phone connection is mini-usb

Keypad -
The keypad has been moved, from the bottom of the device, to a horizontal slot.
When you open the keyboard the screen reorients to a horizontal position and vice versa.
Very nice and much more user friendly.

Phone - The reception is no better than the previous generation. Now has voice, speed dialing, functionality. Drops my data password more than my previous 6600, by far. still testing

Resets - Very few soft resets so far, but it's still early.

Directional pad has been replaced by a toggle switch. Would seem to be very fragile, for our needs. I think this would be broken by quite a few reps.

Camera - Better quality than the 6600, 1.3mp. The camera button on my phone doesn't work so I must open the program via menus.

Wifi - It's great for those of us who can use the functionality.

Memory card - It's now Mini-SD instead of regular size SD memory cards.

Transmitting - more testing needed. BT is a major pain and not worth using. Sending through normal means - tethered usb cable - very problematic. I was only able to connect for a few seconds before I'd get an error and dc'd. The msg said - cannot send data through tethered and Bluetooth - even though Bluetooth was disabled on the phone and fujitsu.

Form factor - much smaller screen size, feels more like a phone instead of a PDA, unlike the 6600. It is a bit thicker though.

UI/Software Changes - Battery power icon now on the desktop. No longer have to manually set button lock via software. Now set by default.

Hardware - No visible external screws like unlike the AV6600. On the AV6600 we had 2 outer screws which would both fall out over time and lead to the devices being randomly hard reset. A definite plus, on the new phone. The cradle comes with and extra usb port and space to charge and extra battery.

Accessories - There's a great aluminum case - retail $30 - which is the best I've seen in terms of protecting a phone of this type. Very good shock/drop protection yet all buttons are accessible. Great for us since most users who break the AV6600 do so by dropping or crushing screens.

Re:Contracts

[Wdomburg]

Cellular service with a particular carrier tends to vary wildly from region to region, but in this area the coverage is fairly spotty (last year there were long periods where even downtown coverage was bad, mostly when they were trying to eliminate supposed redundancy from the AT&T merger) and their customer service has been less than stellar (high turnover with account reps doesn't help).

The real killer for us, though, was SMS service bad to the point of being unusable - messages regularly delayed for hours, a high percentage of messages never showing up, several instances where their mail gateway simply rejected or bounced messages, and so forth. They had us reset phones (which often would result in all delayed messages delivered at once, but never solved anything long term. They had us try several models of phones. They tried claiming that there was a problem with *our* mailserver (sorry, no, not only did we send from multiple networks, but I can see the errors your gateway is returning in the logs). One sales rep tried to sell us an "enterprise messaging plan" that cost more but gave no additional guarantees ... and apparently had been discountinued anyways since the website had removed it from the list of options.

Ultimately the accounts were cancelled and Sprint contracted instead. That was about a year ago. We recently got a couple phone to trial and have had the exact same issues.

Re:Contracts

[ottothecow]

I really like my cingular dealings. Other than some issues with a third-party rebate on the phone, it has worked great.

Cingular has great coverage in the two areas I care most about (Chicago and Minneapolis). In mpls. I experianced none of the nasty dropped calls and things that all of my verizon friends experianced with the terrible network coverage there (tmobile also worked fine though). In Chicago my coverage is great and it is in fact only Cingular customers who get who get usable coverage everywhere in my dorm building. Elsewhere in the city I always have great coverage (though I think if I went alltel or us cellular or something I would get service IN the subway tunnels but I am willing to accept that loss of service for great service everywhere else)

My biggest reason for going with the cingular (other than seeing all the verizon people experiancing bad service in my area and having to deal with Verizon's locked down phones) was that they use GSM phones. Stick in a new SIM and I am good to go. Travel to europe? grab an international SIM and I have a phone I can use. The selection of phones they offered me was great and if something happens to my phone its not hard to replace with any unlocked phone out there. The plan itself was a pretty good deal. Ended up getting too many minutes on the 2-person family plan (personally, most of my calls are probobly covered in nights/weekends or the free calls to other cingular subscribers) and have accumulated a ton of rollover minutes in case I do go over. Its a handy feature to have and is still useful even if you get close to your limit every month. As to their service, their customer service is known for long waits but I havnt had any issues that had trouble getting corrected. The other part of customer service is the part you dont see, the work they do on the infrastructure when it has issues affecting bigger groups of people. A tower went down in a storm here once and the cingular customers were all having trouble...issue was fixed in a day...a new one was up before the fallen trees were even cleared from most of the streets around here.

Re:Contracts

[Kazoo the Clown]

The best thing the iPhone is going to do for the market is force carriers like Verizon to get off their duff and compete with phones that offer better access and NOT nickel-&-dime for every ringtone, mp3, text message or THIRD PARTY APPLICATION. The biggest problem with Verizon IMHO, is that you can't install your own apps-- there's no such thing as a "homebrew" or "freeware" app on a Verizon phone because the app has to be digitally signed for BREW and that costs a minimum of $400, and there's no guarantee that Verizon might nix it if they think it competes with one of their own apps. I'm not sure, but the Treo might support Java apps which gives you one entry, but only with an $$$ data plan.

What remains to be seen with the iPhone, is how much is it other than the initial cost of the phone? What kind of plan do you need to use these new features-- what's the monthly?

At any rate, I hope the iPhone takes off like the iPod-- serious competition in the wireless market is a Real Good Thing(TM) IMHO, and Steve Jobs is about as good a candidate as their could be for converting that little bit of market pressure into a freight train...

Re:Contracts

[um... Lucas]

I bet that Cingular will be paying them on a monthly basis for the users that sign onto their service and use the premium features... If they sold unlocked phones, there'd be no way to attribute the feature use and then they'ed have to charge even more for the unit. That, or make separately branded versions for all the major carriers... And ever since surviving the days of having 20-30 products out there, with barely different model numbers, i'm sure Steve would have nixed any idea of building specifically branded phones for all the major carriers...

But maybe again, maybe they will in time. That way they can see:
A- how many current cingular customers upgrade to the phoneB- how many new customers cingular acquires that get iphones
C- after a year or year and a half, how many customers switch to cingular and get the phone
D- how many people contact them and say they'd love to get one, but for one reason or anther can't or won't switch from their current carrier.

Re:Contracts

[ozmanjusri]

It's a video iPod and a half-mac. It can stand on its own, without the phone.

Yep, so near and yet so far...

If it had a VGA-out adapter and some way of plugging in an external keyboard and hard drive, I'd ditch my laptop in an instant.

Re:Contracts

[Atryn]

Well yes, those ring tones are a nice profit margin billion dollar industry (not exagerating!).

From what I saw, nothing in Steve's speech confirmed that you could use your music library AS A RINGTONE. He consistently had another ringtone even when music was playing. That could leave room for both iTunes music AND ringtone customization by the carrier. Same with the newer ringback capabilities.

If Slashdot hates it......

[Anonymous Coward]

If slashdot hates it, this thing is going to be successful. I remember the ipod was also coldly received around here. The ipod demonstrated the huge disconnect between "expert" slashdot users and your everyday consumer. In short, slashdotters severely undervalue ease of use.

Like the PS3 is priced to high.

[xzvf]

Price point looks very familiar. Why is the PS3 dumped on for $599 price point while this is praised as a second coming? Where did Sony mess up?

Re:Like the PS3 is priced to high.

[jonnythan]

The PS3 is really functionally equivalent to the XBox 360, which is $200 less.

The iPhone is a totally new device in almost every way. There's nothing else like it anywhere.

Re:Like the PS3 is priced to high.

[Reaperducer]

Ditto for my SonyEricsson M600i. Except the iPhone does everything my phone does -- but does it better, faster, easier, and prettier. I expect the same is true with your SLVR.

But as much as I want one, I won't get one for a while. I don't do cell phone contracts. Never have. Never will.

I'll just wait for unlocked ones to hit the Asian or European markets and get one there.

You got a Zune for Christmas, didn't you?

[Picass0]

I'm sorry. I know it must be rough for you right now. We're all here for you.

...And one more thing?

[Gwyndolen]

Since when did Jobs drop the best part of the keynote?

Re:...And one more thing?

[pnkflyd51]

He doesn't do that every time. Probably doesn't want to ruin the effect of the "one more thing" by over utilizing it...

I am amazed that not much was said about Macs as computers (Apple TV is a CE device, not a computer.) This is after all Macworld!

why no new mac systems / hardware?

[Joe The Dragon]

why no new mac systems / hardware?
Where is the duel quad-core macpro?
If apple does not go to quad-core soon dell and others will be able to have better systems for less.

Way no head less mid-rage mac?
This is need to get mac into more homes and business.

Bigger implications

[hrbrmstr]

While Jobs didn't talk much about Leopard, Xcode or the other great stuff Apple has coming this year, I can picture a nice scenario where one will be able to choose "iPhone Project" in Xcode and code like they would (albeit with a very different GUI notion) for the Mac. I also suspect that DashCode was released just to make it easier to build custom widgets for this thing.

If you can buy it without the Cingular/AT&T service from Apple, then it might be worth the cost, since the WiFi/Bluetooth is cool enough and I already have Verizon (along with the entire fam).

5hrs life, tho... gonna be tough if you use it as a cell phone.

Re:Bigger implications

[John Girouard]

5 hours of talk time. This seems to be in the ballpark of other cellphones.

Re:Bigger implications

[drinkypoo]

It wouldn't help you on Verizon anyway because it's a GSM phone. I doubt they will ever make a non-GSM version; the simple fact is that on the worldwide market, anything but GSM is just pointless to manufacture. I'm not sure what the stats are for GSM/non-GSM in the US, but given that ATT and basically everyone but sprint or verizon is GSM and roaming on ATT's network half the time, I'd guess that it would be a bad move here. Especially since geeks are probably less likely to be on verizon because they're more likely to be pissed off that verizon typically locks out practically all the functionality on the phone that would save you from spending money to get media on or off the thing... and I think most of us have already had our fun with Sprint. (I had mine back in the very early days of sprint PCS and learned my lesson quite well then, thank you.)

Re:Bigger implications

[atl0man]

I think you may need to investigate your facts. There are only two major GSM operators in the US. Cingular, and T-mobile. The majority of the US is covered by CDMA service. The build out of CDMA network in North America is so drastically superior it is not even a close call. The largest carrier by actual land mass is Alltel. And they run CDMA almost exclusively except for some GSM, for roaming revenue in some major corridors in rural areas. Verizon would most likely qualify as the next largest for physical network build out. Sprint and Cingular are consistently rated the the worst carriers for call quality, dropped calls, network capacity, etc. The Fact of the matter is that there will have to be a CDMA/EVDO version of this eventually because it makes economic sense in North America, Korea, Japan, etc. CDMA users buy more expensive phones, use more minutes, use more Data services, have higher speed internet access, etc. Verizon does lock out functionality of phones and that is because they are jerks. But you can't deny that between Alltel and Verizon most US customers have really really good choices for mobile operators for actual call quality, Data Access, etc. These people are not going to go choose a lesser product because of the phone. In fact it would be in Apple's best interest to be partnered with any other carrier. The technological limitations of GSM as compared to CDMA1x\EVDO or even WCDMA(UMTS) are huge. They won't be overcome with a good user interface if the call drops half the time, or sounds like you are speaking with a robot. GSM is on the downturn overall in the US. Verizon will most likely surpass Cingular in subsribers this year, and with the rollout of WCDMA and some new chipsets that are due this year, phones will be able to run on both CDMA1x or WCDMA. Thank you for standards finally getting closer together. So in summary, you accurately informed the above poster that it is GSM only, however, you inaccurately inform them that there will probably never be CDMA version. I don't see how there won't be one eventually.

Re:Bigger implications

[WiseWeasel]

Cingular's GSM coverage is just as good as Verizon's CDMA. I tried both a little over two years ago, and had better coverage with GSM in the San Francisco Bay Area, and they've improved GSM coverage since then. This is really not an issue at this point.

The fact that CDMA is only in the US, and the rest of the World uses GSM means that most cool phones will be for GSM networks, as it has been all this time. If you want cool phones, use a GSM service. If you're fine with crappy CDMA phones, then by all means, stick with that. Don't expect this situation to change, as that's just how the economics work out. CDMA is not nearly as big of a global market as GSM.

Re:Bigger implications

[drinkypoo]

I think you may need to investigate your facts. There are only two major GSM operators in the US. Cingular, and T-mobile.

"Cingular Wireless, LLC, headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia, is an AT&T subsidiary." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cingular) So ATT is the biggest GSM operator. Thanks for playing.

There are other GSM providers as well: "Edge Wireless LLC is a Mobile phone provider founded in 1999, serving southern Oregon, northern California, southeastern Idaho and Jackson, Wyoming. The company is headquartered in Bend, Oregon, although they provide no coverage or services in that city." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_Wireless) Edge is my provider. They're putting up towers pretty quickly on my coast and they have quite a bit of capacity in the listed markets - that still makes them a niche player of course, I just want to mention them. Since many of the GSM providers in the US (if not all of them) cooperate, it's unimportant which of them are large players. For the purposes of deciding what is useful, only the total mass must be considered.

Alltel themselves provides significant GSM capacity, and the size of their network is defined by coverage, not their number of customers: "When Alltel acquired Western Wireless in 2005, it also gained a large GSM footprint as well. While it does not offer GSM service to its own customers, Alltel has indicated that it will continue to maintain the GSM footprint (and perhaps even expand it) to provide roaming service to GSM users of other wireless carriers. Alltel advertises itself as "owner and operator of the nation's largest wireless network"; this claim refers to geographical coverage of its network rather than number of Alltel customers or population covered." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alltel)

Meanwhile, while CDMA may be the leader in North America, it is overwhelmingly NOT the leader in the world, and I doubt Apple plans to sell their phone only in the US. According to this press release (linked from "GSM" on wikipedia) "Globally, there are 2.29 billion cellular users encompassing all technologies" and the press release itself is about the number of GSM users worldwide being expected to cross two billion that month - that month being June of 2006.

Thus, if the choice is between technologies, then GSM is the only logical choice; probably a large part of the decision was based on who was willing to partner with Apple and with what terms.

Finally, according to this article on BetaNews on August 31, 2006, "As of the end of the second quarter of 2006, GSM had added 100 million new customers over the past year to end the period with a 51 percent share." But it seems to be an error; GSM is simply the most common communications technology in The Americas. HOWEVER, if we look at a graph entitled "Market Share Comparison in the United States (Sept 2005 - Sept 2006)" (http://www.3gamericas.org/English/Statistics/11.c fm) we can see that in that timeframe TDMA became barely significant, GSM gained 4.3% of the market, and CDMA lost 0.9%.

Meanwhile, while CDMA does offer some advantages (notably higher rates of data transmission) GSM is coming along in that regard as well.

In other words, CDMA is falling, GSM is rising, and GSM is the uncontested ruler of cell service everywhere but North America. I'm not sure it's worth their while to make a CDMA phone - I think people will be more loath to purchase a $600 phone that only works with one provider (since most CDMA providers give you a really hard time about

Re:Bigger implications

[drinkypoo]

Alltel's network is defined by the size of the coverage. This is actually the most important factor.

I strongly disagree. What is most important is the number of [potential] subscribers who are within your coverage area. It's not useful to have coverage where no one ever goes.

Isn't this "Deal" Illegal?

[Voltar]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the FCC (or someone like them) pass a regulation saying that a person can change carriers without having to buy a new phone and could keep their old number? Of course, Algore could just claim "no controlling legal authority...except Appleinc." to get around it.

Exclusive with Cingular, probably necessary

[bstarrfield]

Much as I detest Cingular, Apple likely had little choice but to partner with one of the major cell phone carriers. Apple could, of course, had sold the iPhone without a SIM and had the customers install their own.

That would have been a marketing / tech support / and logistical mess, with different networks providing different data plans, features, connectivity, and even basic networks (GSM versus whatever the hell's out there). Partnering with Cingular makes life ever so much easier for Apple. Not only that, it prevents Cingular / ATT from partnering with some vaporware future Microsoft product that could steal Apple's thunder.

I'm not going to defend Cingular's horrific record. They're awful, no doubt. But all the wireless firms are awful right now. Given that Steve divested Apple of the awesome Imaging group, the nifty Newton, and other business units it would be surprising if Apple wanted to get into the cell phone provisioning business.

On another note, I'm already looking at how to rewrite a few Widgets to work on the iPhone...

Be careful talking about price

[ubernostrum]

Remember that Apple's been making buckets of money, for years, by selling things that either were or were perceived to be more expensive than the competition.

Re:Leopard?

[lolocaust]

From the bottom of http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/index.html


"All these features and more are delivered to you in one universal, fully accessible, 64-bit operating system. Coming spring 2007."

Some reality

[Danathar]

1) It would not matter WHAT carrier they chose. People would dump on them because there are large groups which hate EVERY cell carrier in the U.S.

2) I've seen NO confirmation that you HAVE to buy a contract.

3) Anti Apple Trolls will take a large steaming dump on it no matter what it is.

iPod needs to get this software

[twbecker]

Ok, the phone is incredible. But the carrier sucks and the price, while reasonable, is really gonna add up when you add a data enabled calling plan. What I really want is this version of OS X on the iPod. Turn it into the iPhone minus the phone, and they can still charge close to $500 for it, and not have to share anything with Cingular.

Re: Unlimited data price

[Anonymous Coward]

You are incorrect. I have Cingular, and have unlimited data. I send many many megabytes of data on my phone. I am charged $20 per month.

iPhone candy bar design = scratched screen

[cjh79]

Why should I spend $500+ on a beautiful 3.5" screen that will be scratched to hell after a few weeks of 16+ hour days in my pocket? Boo.

The official fanboy thread

[nutshell42]

This is the official thread for all those Apple fanboys who crashed any thread on new cellphones over the years with their "boohoo, a device should only do one thing" spiel.

In this thread I want to give you the opportunity to state whether your earlier trolling against cellphones with mp3 playback functionality was 100%-Apple-fanboyism or if you stand by it and think the iPhone should never have happened. Thx.

Technical Specs

[benji_mouse]

From apple.com/iphone/technology/specs.html

Screen size          3.5 inches
Screen resolution    320 by 480 at 160 ppi
Input method         Multi-touch
Operating system     OS X
Storage              4GB or 8GB
GSM                  Quad-band (MHz: 850, 900, 1800, 1900)
Wireless data        Wi-Fi (802.11b/g) + EDGE + Bluetooth 2.0
Camera               2.0 megapixels
Battery              * Up to 5 hours Talk / Video / Browsing
                     * Up to 16 hours Audio playback
Dimensions           4.5 x 2.4 x 0.46 inches / 115 x 61 x 11.6mm
Weight               4.8 ounces / 135 grams

No Widescreen iPod

[devnull17]

The iPhone looks nice. Overpriced and tied to a terrible service provider, but the gadget itself looks cool.

But where's the next-generation iPod? It's obvious that the technology is there; the iPhone has pretty much every feature that one could dream of in a next-generation iPod: it's widescreen, touch-controlled, and has much better screen resolution.

What about the vast majority of iPod customers who don't want an overfeatured, overpriced toy ($600 plus a two-year contract with the worst mobile service provider in the US--and they have a monopoly on it, by the way) with little storage capacity that won't be available until June? What about those of us who aren't interested in satellite images of the Washington Monument, or a simple way to voice-dial Starbucks, and just want a sexy gadget to play movies on the train? Why does Apple insist on shoving these extra features down our throats at an exorbitant price, offering no alternative? I thought they had more respect for their customers than that.

Re:No Widescreen iPod

[Scrameustache]

The iPhone looks nice. Overpriced and tied to a terrible service provider, but the gadget itself looks cool.

But where's the next-generation iPod? [...] Why does Apple insist on shoving these extra features down our throats at an exorbitant price, offering no alternative?

It IS the next-gen iPod.

How many freakkin versions of the iPod does it take for you to consider that you have been offered an alternative? Because iPod, iPod Video, Mini iPod, iPod Shuffle weren't enough, no, you're stuck with only one single choice, which you are forced at gunpoint to buy, no less.

Poor, poor you. How dare Apple design a slick product that will appeal to millions rather than spend their resources designing the product you want, at the price you deem fair? how dare they?

I don't see the biug deal

[AuMatar]

Its a PDA with a phone and wifi. And it uses your fingers instead of a stylus (a bad mistake, having used a DS and other touch technology- I *want* a stylus, fingers are way too clutzy). If you carry a phone and a pda, you can converge. If you don't, it doesn't give you anything.

I'll get excited over something like this the day there's reasonable nationwide wifi so I can use the net from literally anywhere. Until then, the only interesting feature of it is hamstrung.

Re:I don't see the biug deal

[soft_guy]

"I *want* a stylus, fingers are way too clutzy"
 
What do you hold the stylus with??? In his mouth. Duh!

Re:I don't see the biug deal

[dreamer-of-rules]

That's a software problem-- so Apple (with the Fingerworks engineers) solved it. Your fingertip is larger than a single key, but the center of your fingertip can be calculated and can be matched to a single key. The problem is a lack of tactile feedback to correct our tendencies to drift, but it looks like they have keypress popups and spelling correction to compensate.

Take a look at the Fingertouch keyboards.. They've been around for several years, and stopped production when Apple bought the team/company/IP in 2005. Don't let the pictures fool you-- there are no "keys". It is a completely smooth surface, and all the buttons and gestures are fully re-programmable. All sensing is done in the keyboard and converted to keystrokes and mouse movements for the USB.

Granted, the linked keyboard is laptop sized, but the point is that they calculate the center of the touch.

EDGE, not HSDPA? Please.

[yet another coward]

This phone appears to be EDGE, not HSDPA. That this supposedly revolutionary device runs on Cingular's old 2G network is pitiful. EV-DO is out there and working in many places on Sprint and Verizon. Even rear guard Cingular has rolled out 3G in some cities. Color me disappointed.

Re:EDGE, not HSDPA? Please.

[jmorris42]

> That this supposedly revolutionary device runs on Cingular's old 2G network is pitiful.

Shut up, this is Apple you are talking about. What they picked is GREAT, obviously the other options suck, otherwise Apple would have picked them.

Seriously, imagine the howls of laughter has Microsoft tied a major new product to an outdated technology. But it's different with Apple.

But your point just illustrates why putting a phone and a pda/mp3 player together is a bad idea. Both are evolving too fast, so any combined device is either obsolete at introduction (like iPhone) or you end up needing to replace them at double the speed to keep up. But with a cell phone in the mix you are stuck with the slow two year service contract cycle. Really, imagine the sort of clueless yuppie tech junkie with tons of disposable income who will be lining up in June to buy of these puppies. Anyone think they aren't going to be pissed when the realization sinks in they are stuck with it until June 2009 as new higher spec units roll out every six months?

Re:Leopard and June 1

[JavaLord]

The two OS probably have as much as common as say, Windows XP and Windows Mobile

Yeah, I'm a bit skeptical of a full OS X install running on that thing. It would be pretty cool if you could get some type of desktop and actually write apps for the iPhone on the iPhone. I'm probably the only one in the world who would want a feature like that. :P

Also, for an 'all in one' type device, there is one thing it's missing. Games! I'm not sure what kind of games could work well on a touch screen outside of puzzle/card games, but hopefully there will be a few that run on there.

Re:New Products!

[bunco]

Stream much 1080p? How's that going for you? How's your collection of 1080p content sizing up? 720p will meet consumers expectations.

Re:Wii killer? Give me a break...

[goombah99]

Who said wii killer? it just is ripe for allowing wii like functionality. Not everyone has a wii or an apple. But if you had one of these iphones would you not want it to be a video game controller too?

don't miss new 802.11n base station

[trueger]

I don't think The Steve even mentioned this,
but check out Apple's new 802.11n base station
(sadly, named the same as the previous one):

http://www.apple.com/airportextreme/

If you don't have 'N in your present machine,
network it to this little guy for that AppleTV
goodness...

Oooh My...

[Greyfox]

I believe that's a nerdrection I feel coming on...

If the phone can run SIP software (And it looks like it's just OSX so it should be able to) then you could switch over to a "One handset to rule them all" setup. At home or anywhere else where there's wifi you can connect to an Asterisk server over sip. Otherwise default to cell. The problem then becomes how to terminate your Asterisk box into the PSTN. You could get a VOIP provider (Telasip works with asterisk and you can ask them to unlock your account so that you can change your caller ID.) Or you could terminate it into the PSTN with a digium card or a SIP gateway. In either case you can provide one phone number to your customers and have asterisk fail over to the cell if your main line doesn't pick up. If you use telasip for such endeavors you can spoof your customer's caller ID to the cell network so you even know who's calling.

Once you take control of your network endpoint in this manner the sky is pretty much the limit. Blacklist phone numbers, let your callers play hunt-the-wumpas, have a corporate-class voice responder, make free calls over enum or Dundi... pretty much anything you can think of can be done when you have that much control of your end of the phone network.

Apple Releases iPhone

[MeanderingMind]

No Blu-Ray. Less space than a PS3. Lame.

Re:Intel CPU on Apple TV = cheap Linux/ mythtv box

[flipper65]

Am I the only one who was right there with Jobs up until he announced the specs and ...........no tuner card???!!! So basically it's an airport extreme for video. I'm first in line for the phone, but Apple TV? meh

Re:I DONT want a GSM + Edge phone...

[cmacb]

"And yeah, MACworld and not ONE word about Macs? "

Yes, ther WAS one word in a way. One word REMOVED from the name of the company.

Apple Computer Inc. --> Apple Inc.

(Wasn't part of the deal with the Beatles over this distinction?)

I think that speaks volumes about where Apple is headed, which is to make computers an optional part of their business. If five years down the road the hardware (or even software) part of the business isn't contributing, it can easily be jettisoned.

Re:Leopard and June 1

[Chode2235]

Uh, Nintendo DS seems to indicate that touch screen games are highly sought after, and profitable.

PLEASE sell one without a camera!

[Quiet_Desperation]

I (and just about everyone I know) cannot bring a phone to work with a camera in it. The camera renders it useless to me. Camera phones are for teens and kiddies. We adults have digital SLR Canons and Nikons.

Re:PLEASE sell one without a camera!

[ivan256]

Is that because everybody you know works at the same place you do? I'll make a bet with you that less than 10% of american workers have camera phone restrictions. Are you in?

Digital SLR cameras, however, are useless for 90% of everybody. A quality camera phone would be an excellent "adult" device. Who knows if the camera in the iPhone is any good though...

If it's an iPod too, you wouldn't be able to bring it in to work anyway. Or do you work for one of those moronic places that lets you bring USB storage devices in, but not cameras?

Re:PLEASE sell one without a camera!

[victim]

The camera costs nearly nothing. Disabling it costs even less. I recommend you fill the lens divot with epoxy and set something pretty in the top, perhaps a small earring with the stud removed. There. No camera and a little personalization for your phone.

Re:5 hours battery?!

[Yosho]

Are you sure you read the article? I quote:

Battery life: "A lot of these phones have low battery life. We've managed to get 5 hours of battery of talk time, video, and browsing. 16 hours of audio playback."

"5 hours of battery of talk time". There you go. No idea what the standby time will be like, or if that's a realistic estimate, but considering that 2 to 3 hours of realistic talk time is reasonable for a "normal" cell phone...

Re:I DONT want a GSM + Edge phone...

[mean pun]

If five years down the road the hardware (or even software) part of the business isn't contributing, it can easily be jettisoned.

I thought so too, but then I realized that the iPhone runs Mac OS X, and perhaps the AppleTV thingy also does. I consider that a positive sign.

Price and Network Locking

[Thumper_SVX]

Well, first of all I like the device. I think it looks like exactly what I need to replace my aging MPX220... but probably not until next year.

Why? Well, first of all there's the issue of locking. OK, so I use Cingular... but I'll be damned if I'm going to sign another contract with them to get this phone for $599. That's not because I'm balking at the price... I don't like to be locked to a provider. The last 4 cellphones I've purchased were all unlocked GSM phones. I pay more for them, but I get to use them wherever and whenever I want. That way when I fly to England (which I'll be doing again this year) I can pick up a Virgin Mobile SIM at the airport (or more often in London... they're cheaper there) and just pay as I go with a UK phone number for the duration of my trip. Plus then I have my regular contacts, calendar and stuff with me (not to mention my eBooks).

I'm no on a contract with Cingular, but I stick with them today because they provide me decent coverage, decent service and don't really seem to care what kind of phone I attach to their network.

Now, to those who ARE balking at the price with a 2-year contract... well this is a smartphone. As such, compare it to smartphones, not to the standard handsets. Even devices such as the SLVR don't compare despite their limited music-playing capability because the Apple phone is going to be a smartphone in the same way that the current PDA phones are. It just runs OSX instead of Windows CE or Palm. The price is about in-the-range that you'd expect to pay. For an unlocked phone, expect around $200-$250 more.

Now will I pay $850 for the phone I want? Probably. I paid about $500 for my MPX220 and I've had it for two years so far. 3 years out of that investment I think is reasonable... given inflation over the last couple of years I think I can justify $850 for my next three-year investment in a decent cellphone. The fact that it'll replace my MPX220 and iPod Nano at the same time, as well as give me an OSX based system is just the icing on the cake for me.

My guess on CmdrTaco's opinion...

[supremebob]

More expensive than a Blackberry. Requires a two year Cingular service contract. Lame. :)

Well...

[ackthpt]

That gives you some time to save up for it, rather than put it on your iCreditCard

Someone freeze me

[IceCreamGuy]

I'm going to freeze myself until this comes out. Remember that tree over there and get me in June.

ssh, x-windows

[blofeld42]

It should be easy to get an ssh terminal running on this thing. In fact, I think you could get X running on it.

An obvious home run. Crackberrys are history. Every admin is going to be leashed to one of these things.

Early Termination Fee to the Rescue!

[JD-1027]

I'm seriously thinking just cancel the cell phone service with Cingular after buying the device.
Just bend over, take it like a man with the termination fee, but walk away with the most awesome PDA to date.
Or, maybe the next gen iPod will have this interface with built in WIFI and apps?

My crazy-ass out-there prediction...

[porcupine8]

They truly revolutionized computers in the 70s and 80s. The iPhone stands to truly revolutionize portable devices.

My guess is that 5-7 years down the line, they introduce something that is barely recognizable as a "computer" that's aimed at replacing the current personal computer. The long-rumored tablet, but as different from current Tablet PCs as the iPhone is from blackberrys. A whole different class of product.

I hope.

You're wrong.

[Aurisor]

Linux is a single unified source base. Pop open a console and go to /usr/src/linux. Architecture-specific code goes in the "arch" folder. On my system I've got code for 28 architectures in the arch folder, averaging about 2mb each. The other 217 megs of shit is platform-independent. That works out to about 1% arch-specific code.

Most distros offer their own patchsets against the main kernel tree, but you can run red hat's 2.6.19 kernel on suse, gentoo, etc etc as long as you build it to use whatever features the operating system requires (udev/devfs/etc) support.

Linux is not maintained as disjoint projects with a shared code base. One central repository (kernel.org) maintains the offical source, and specialists maintain the architecture-specific code.

Neither the arch-specific code nor the patchsets are forks. You probably consider them to be forks because you do not know what a fork is. A fork is when a group of developers copy the code from a project and develop it independently in another direction without any intention to merge back with the main trunk. Arch-specific code is not a fork because it exists as part of the main kernel trunk. Patchsets are not forks because they only exist to be applied against the main trunk. Good patchsets frequently get merged into the trunk anyways.

Re:You're wrong.

[Aurisor]

Actually, a kernel does an OS make. Branding and userland utilities, such as in the case of Ubuntu and Debian, do not distinguish operating systems. That's why they're referred to different distributions of linux.

Quoth wikipedia: "An operating system (OS) is a computer program that manages the hardware and software resources of a computer. At the foundation of all system software, the OS performs basic tasks such as controlling and allocating memory, prioritizing system requests, controlling input and output devices, facilitating networking, and managing files. It also may provide a graphical user interface for higher level functions."

Note the fact that GUIs are optional.

Ubuntu and Debian are just different package preferences and userland utilities running on the same OS, Linux. Ubuntu forked the installer, layout, and some of the organizational structure, but their kernels and userland utilties are built from the same damn source.

Your initial comment was this:

"You can be certain that the OS X that runs on the iPhone is a distant relative of the OS X that runs on the desktop. The two OS probably have as much as common as say, Windows XP and Windows Mobile. Think fork."

XP and Windows mobile do not share a kernel, nor do they share userland utilities, because windows was not designed with scalability in mind. A GNU/Linux system, however, because it was designed with scalability in mind, can be run just as easily on an ipod as a desktop computer. Obviously some userland packages are too bloated, but the OS itself does not fork.

My point was that your assertion that the os x that runs on the iphone must not be related to desktop os x is wrong. I've looked at the darwin sources, and the kernel could certainly be built for an embedded environment. They might need to introduce compile-time options into their userland utilities to allow them to build memory-efficient versions, and such, but there is *no reason why they would need to fork os x*. In fact, there's no reason why the iphone and desktop versions of os x couldn't build off of the same set of sources. My original point was that if they were smart enough to make their OS and applications scalable there's no reason why they'd need two codebases.

Re:You're wrong.

[bunco]

I'll be the first to admit that Ubuntu vs. Debian was a terrible (i.e. completely erroneous) example. However, I'm quite sure that plenty of derivative distributions exist. And regarding the Microsoft equivalent, as another slashdotter pointed out, NT vs. NT embedded would be a far better example.

I don't care to argue semantics or challenge the ever omniscient wikipedia. I'm sure you understood the point I was trying to make.. that is that OS X is not just XNU. I believe that XNU as well as the many software layers above it comprise OS X.

XNU could be easily ported and optimized for use on embedded devices. However, it seems awfully bloated for the task. For example, since CPU is a precious commodity, why use a microkernel in the first place? Does the OS really need I/O kit? Above the kernel, I'd expect core and application services to be _much_ lighter.

It seems that instead of going crazy with preprocessor macros, it makes more sense to fork many of the OS X layers while striving to maintain a homogeneous API.

Anyway... I could pontificate all day. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

Re:Leopard and June 1

[jmorris42]

> There will be a developer's kit for it and what not.

Probably. But notice what wasn't said, always the thing to do at rah rah events like this. NOwhere did they even mention being able to install, run, use normal OS X applications on the thing. Considering what a coup it would be vs WinCE, if it could do it His Steveness would have crowed about it.

So will it be the typical mobile phone development deal, expensive development kit, massive legal hurdles in the NDA dept intended to make sure only select large development houses play and they play according to the mobile phone rules? Will the operating software in the thing be DRMed like the newest iPods so that only Apple signed binaries boot/run? Steve didn't say, and the silence is disturbing.

Wii controller? What are you talking about?

[norminator]

Considering the fact that it won't be until July 2008 before Microsoft gets games into the Zune, I'd say they're a little backlogged on iPod catch-up features. I'm seriously wondering what happened in the middle of your post, though, because it made lots of sense (or sounded like it, except it took me about 30 seconds to figure out what "visula voice messaging" was supposed to be), until about halfway through point 2.

Sure the phone has sensors (lots of devices do), but I'm sure it will never, ever be intended for them to be used in the way you described. Maybe there will be some kind of hack project to make the iPhone usable as a very basic interface for something, but the basic sensors it has are limited, I'm sure to being useful for their intended design purposes. The Wiimote was designed over a period of years to be used as a controller for the Wii. It's functionality won't be duplicated by a hacked iPhone. And I don't think Microsoft wants to make a controller/phone/Zune that costs as much as its competitors more expensive games console, to attract people to the XBox360. The last thing you want to do is throw your $500 controller for the $400 console at your $2000 plasma. Not to mention the fact that the Wii controller concept works because the Wii was designed around it. Unless Microsoft wants to build a Wii-style console, Wii-style controllers will never sell for it. Look up "Power Glove" and "U-Force" on wikipedia.

PS3 is a toy. iPhone is a tool.

[LKM]

The PS3 is a toy. This is a useful tool. It's easy to justify spending 600 bucks on something that will help you save time and money. It's not easy to justify spending 600 bucks on a toy you play with during the evenings.

Re:Ownd

[soft_guy]

Dear Motorola:
 
Thanks for taking so long with the 620. And for dragging your feet with the 603 . Oh - and the higher frequency G4s? Thanks for taking so long with that.
 
Hope your margins are more than RAZR thin!
 
Signed,
 
Apple, Inc. Sniff ...we'll always have Altivec.

In all fairness...

[SvnLyrBrto]

The two articles were posted, and commented upon, by two different editors.

No reason to disparage Zonk, just because taco turned out to be a clueless twit.

cya,
john

Re:Leopard and June 1

[assassinator42]

From Engadget: "9:51am - It [running OSX] let us create desktop class applications and networking, not the cripled stuff you find on most phones, these are real desktop applications."
Kind of contradictory. Perhaps it runs the same kernel with a scaled down / modified GUI?

So true...

[SuperKendall]

I do think it's pretty clear the partnership with cingular alone is solid, since the network has to support some of the special features they are offering - later we might see more providers.

However I agree that whatever carrier they chose there would be mre complaints. I was actually pretty happy with Cingular since I had actually heard a few good things about them and I have tried most of the other majors and found them all annoying so far, which is why I keep switching.

Honestly the Apple phone looks useful enough that even if the carrier kind of sucks, I can still find a lot of value in it.

What I am hoping is wrong is the length of contract required, I'd really prefer a year even if it cost a bit more.

Re:Apple would sue Cisco? Based on what?

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

I suspect that the defense for that would be thus: Since Apple itself never announced an iPhone product, Cisco (and any other company in a similar situation) shouldn't be locked out of their trademark by consumer rumors. Unless I'm mistaken, you can't trademark words unless you actually do "trade" in a particular name.

Trading in a product does not guarantee you won't lose your trademark. Trademarks are tried in the court of public opinion. Bayer still sold Aspirin and Heroin under those names when they lost those trademarks. Kleenex is in danger of losing their trademark on the term, simply because people use it as a generic term for facial tissues, more than as a reference to their brand. So even if you have a product by that name, you can lose that trademark if the public does not understand that it is yours only, or if it confuses customers. Try opening a retail store called ElectronicsHack or Radio Hack, or ElectroShack, and you may well lose in court to RadioShack, who's pre-exisiting and popular brand is similar. "iPhone" is very similar to iMac and iPod and iTunes and many other Apple products. If you said "iPhone" to the average person last week before Apple had released their product and while Cisco was selling a product by that name, most people would have thought you were talking about something from Apple. As such, Cisco is likely to lose their trademark in any case and the courts could hand it over to Apple, who holds it in other countries. The legal system is confusing and complex and I would not say that that is the case, but I would not be surprised either. Likely, Apple and Cisco will come to a settlement.

Re:Leopard?

[mean pun]

The iPhone does indeed look cool, but I was kind of hoping to find out some new stuff about Leopard.

I think indirectly we did learn something about Leopard. Since the iPhone will be available in June, and will be running Mac OS X, that will amost certainly be Leopard, although probably a lite/embedded/CE version. Still, I expect that a lot of the stuff they had to develop for the iPhone will also be included in the 'big' version, both in/as applications and stuff for developers.

Reread the slides

[jmorris42]

It is priced with a two year contract with Cingular. And when you play with Apple you play by Apple's rules. I doubt they will sell one unbundled.

Fairly nice hardware, but just another example why putting a phone and a computer together is crazy. Once you say cellphone you have to deal with the cell carriers and all they want to do is lock you into long contracts and screw you hard. Computers have hardware refresh cycles as do cell phones and the two are rarely in sync, and neither will be in sync with your contract expiration. Combine anything else you want into an integrated device but leave the phone seperate and linked via bluetooth.

Nokia is a cellphone company and they are the only one smart enough to leave a phone out of their entry in the portable computer/pda/internet device game. That is a clue Steve, and you missed it.

Re:Wide Screen

[benny_c]

What really surprises me is that AppleTV requires widescreen, yet offers analog audio.

I would have guessed that more consumers have fancy stereos with optical inputs than have widescreen televisions. I would have expected a mini-Toslink/analog combo (like the airport express) and an "old-fashioned" mini-din providing s-video and component via a cable adaptor.

Maybe buying that standard definition TV 2 years ago was a mistake.

Nokia 800

[xzvf]

The N800 is functionally very close without the Cingular connection.

Compare to *original* iPod, not current iPods

[LKM]

This is a start. The first iPod was restricted (only available for Macs) too, and pricey. Apple may be starting out slowly, but this will absolutely be the next iPod.

Re: Unlimited data price

[Anonymous Coward]

Same here, that 20 a month gets me unlimited media net (WAP access via the phone browser) and 1500 text messages. What most people seem to be referring to here is the broadband non-WAP usage (like hooking your phone up to your laptop via USB/BlueTooth and using it as a modem) which is indeed around $60/month.

But that's cheap when you shop around. Last I checked, Verizion wanted $79.95 and doesn't have much better coverage.

Re:Wide Screen

[discstickers]

It has an optical audio out jack.

No processor or RAM specs?

[weston]

They're conspicuously absent, which makes some sense for a phone... but less for a palmtop computing device, which this clearly is.

Re:Hidden joke on IPhone Site

[dakrin9]

This device has not been authorized as required by the rules of the Federal Communications Commission. This device is not, and may not be, offered for sale or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is obtained.
</p>

Re:wear and tear

[ungerware]

They had to leave something for the huge aftermarket accessory market!

Re:I DONT want a GSM + Edge phone...

[dontknowdidley]

If five years down the road the hardware (or even software) part of the business isn't contributing, it can easily be jettisoned.

It would seem that this device is a testament to the company's skill in hardware and software. Have not a lot of people pointed out that this is essentially a Mac computer in a smaller package? This isn't a app layer on top of Symbian or Palm OS - this is a variant of the OS running on millions of computers today. And I wouldn't say that Apple, Inc. is exactly losing money on the computer business. Weren't people complaining a year ago that the move to Intel was a sign of the end? Seems like there were a lot of MacBooks sold the 2nd half of last year.

If your point is that it appears Apple is trying to turn a corner, I agree. It wouldn't be the first time they took a gamble at reinventing themselves, and this looks like a good way to start.

Where do T-Mo have poor service?

[grahamsz]

I've lived in quite a few areas, and indeed different countries, and never had poor T-Mo service - yet everywhere I go this seems to be held true.

In the UK they had 95% coverage versus vodaphones 97%, but that's not a vast difference. In Colorado their coverage seems as good as any digital service, and my phone works fine in my basement when Cingular and Verizon handsets scarely work standing on the roof.

I'm one bar short of full service in my current office and got decent coverage in my last one.

The only problem i've seen is that some of their handsets have subpar reception, particularly the tiny samsung ones.

Am i exceptionally lucky or is this an outdated myth?

Over the top postive statements

[Luminous]

Seeing the difficulties Nokia and Motorola is having with the cellphone market I don't think this is going to be as fantastic as the commentary here has indicated. It is a solid market move for Apple, but if I'm a Sprint person happy with my phone and I already have a video Ipod, what will this do for me? I'm admittedly not a cellphone geek and don't give a flying leap about how thin, colorful, or hip a phone is - I want a phone I can hear and other people can hear me when I talk through it. That is all. I don't need a phone that is a kick ass camera... I have a kick ass camera for that purpose.

Breathe deep and let's actually see these things in action. Let's see how it reacts as your face pushes against the screen, etc.

Re:Over the top postive statements

[Elder Entropist]

Let's see how it reacts as your face pushes against the screen

The specs say it has a proximity sensor to turn off the touchscreen when you hold it up to your head to prevent erroneous input and to cut down on power usage.

Re:Over the top postive statements

[Anti_Climax]

Let's see how it reacts as your face pushes against the screen

Actually, it mentioned in the keynote summary that it has a proximity sensor that turns off the screen and input system while it's against your ear to prevent errant input and save battery life.

Re:Goodbye SideKick II, Hello Apple iPhone!

[dreamer-of-rules]

Apple is pushing/promoting widget development in Leopard with both the Safari web-clipper (for users), and a XCode IDE for making full-featured widgets (for developers). So I'd say, yes, you can develop for it. I don't know about Terminal, but I'd say it's very likely, given that it's running OS X (probably Leopard) and iPod games (right?).

I'm looking forward to the inevitable bluetooth mini keyboard/touchpad.. someone will probably build that into a storage case, and that would make VNC-on-the-go a snap. wow.

i'm only disappointed that it's exclusive with Cingular, but I expect that'll change in 2008. And it won't stop me from buying it as soon as they get FCC approval. :)

PS. When is the "iTunes" name going to change?

Re:if only it projected

[HTH NE1]

I can only wonder what the phone of 2020 will do.

I could tell you, but then I'd have to prevent your conception.

thin and standby power management

[goombah99]

Bulky? it's thinnner than almost any phone on the market. it's shorter than most flip phones or ones that extend KB. it will slip nicely in my jean pockets. and good god who talks for 5 hours on a cell phone. that's 300 minutes a day.

They were a bit cagey on the battery life I admit. this one clearly has varying modes of use. PDA mode with screen and CPU churning. Idle PDA with screen dimmed, and cell-phone mode, wi-fi on. blue tooth on. etc... No mention of stand-by time.

I'm thinking they are being cagey because they are still developing the power management software and don't really know. They probably still have wads of debugging code in this and have not optimized a lot of it since it's obviously running on yet another cpu. THey did the same thing at the debut of OSX and then of intel, not beiing totally clear about the power management.

On the other hand, the track record on the ipod is that they tend to underspec the battery life. Or rather they spec it for normal usage not minimal settings like other brands do. So those are lower bounds I imagine.

Re:Link to the keynote video?

[Yocto Yotta]

VOILA!

Alas, it is not up yet.

Re:Leopard and June 1

[Chris Tucker]

"ahh but can it run linux..."

No, it doesn't.

Doesn't play OGG, either.

Sucks to be a smelly linux hippie today.

"You've got to config it. And then you have to write some shell scripts. Update your RPMs. You have to partition your drives. And patch your kernel. Compile your binaries. Check your version dependencies. Probably do that once or twice.

It's just so easy. And so simple. I don't know why everyone doesn't run Linux."

Closed captioning

[awtbfb]

Screw the tuner card. I can get an EyeTV box for the main computer. What I want is support for closed captioning in AppleTV and stuff I download from the iTunes store.

In my house, this product might as well be a paperweight without CC support.

Imagine the possibilities

[unPlugged-2.0]

Ok,

I can see the slashdot/mac crowd is already coming up with creative ideas. Using this as a game system is a little far out. I mean come on using this as a wii type controller sounds cool until it takes a little flight out of your oily hands. However I think the real potential is in the car.

Many cars already have iPod integration now imagine if they had iphone integration. All you do is plug the iPhone presumably through the same type of connector as the ipod. It will automatically work as the iPod does but also now will plug into the handsfree system of your car. That would be really sweet.

The icing on the cake would be if there was a OSX interface for your car central dashboard. There are already many people with touch screen devices. Now the iPhone becomes the enabling point for the whole car experience. With a navigation widget and your own custom built widgets you can automatically get a nav system and any thing else the creative Mac Widget community comes up with.

This would be a neat idea and something I would definitely like to see.

Now if only it could do something to improve people's driving. Especially in the New York area. Now that would be a real revolution Steve.

Computers?

[fyngyrz]

I'm sure the iPhone is going to be a lovely product for phone users; me, I'm not too hot on cellphones (or any kind of phone, for that matter. I never did like being interrupted.) I do have an iPod, but I don't use the Apple store (because I prefer not to buy DRM'd materials. I just buy CDs and put tracks into the iPod from there.) So my main connection with Apple is their computers.

I noticed that (aside from the fact that the iPhone runs OSX) there really weren't any "computer" announcements today. Intel announced quad-core CPUs yesterday, and the rumor mill was mumbling about a dual-chip (hence 8-core) Mac desktop; likewise, the mini could use some attention in the graphics area, and the macbook pro still needs (and still has room for) a full keyboard and numeric pad, not to mention a second button on the trackpad.

The iTV / Apple TV... well, aside from the fact that you won't be able to get one for a little while yet, I'm not sure what it'd do for me that I can't already do. Apparently, the marketing went right over my head. Anyone have a summary of why this is an interesting product in a world of tivos, dvrs, frontrow, hi-def dvd and xbox and ps3 and so on? Aside from giving Apple a vector to sell DRM'd movies?

While I'm sure expanding into phones will be a great moneymaker for Apple, I can't help feeling disappointed. Just my .02

Re:Computers?

[jdray]

Well, maybe that's why they changed their name from "Apple Computer, Inc." to "Apple, Inc."

Re:Computers?

[weileong]

This is a trend likely to continue.

Apple "computer" introductions are now a separate matter. Think about it. In the past, when Apple was (basically) the sole PPC user, they were responsible for everything - of all the PC vendors (HP, Dell et al) they were the only ones designing their own system chipset. Then, it was actually meaningful to introduce such things at major events because there was no visibility otherwise. Now - it's up to Intel, and Intel is generally responsible for and publishes the underlying technology roadmap.

You want to know Apple's "computer" roadmap? Look at Intel's published roadmap. When Intel introduced the Core Duo, you knew more or less Apple was going to introduce Core Duo machines soon after. Same for Core 2 Duo. When Santa Rosa shows up in April, you also know new MB(P)s based on that will show up.

CPU "refreshes" simply aren't important enough to warrant a keynote introduction any more - the intel imac introductions etc were different and important and warranted a macworld keynote introduction because those were the *first* intel macs. all future macs, unless they introduce something new and interesting (or if apple's product lineup has seriously run dry) are unlikely to warrant any further keynote introductions. There's absolutely nothing to stop the Apple.com home page being updated in the future with a "quiet" introduction of octo-core Mac Pros.

But right now - and I think you're seriously underestimating the significance of the iPhone introduction on the players of the phone industry - the iPhone is *it*. It really is what is worth talking about right now.

No matter what their production output is I do not believe the apple stores will be able to keep it in stock. They've staked out the high ground in terms of phone functionality, and all the other players are now left with having to basically compete on price, and higher-cost western producers - that means Motorola and Nokia et al - are NOT going to be able to compete in that space, squeezed between Apple on the top and the upcoming Chinese manufacturers at the bottom. This is a serious disaster for Nokia which has been trying for ages to become a "new computing platform" (didn't they ban their employees from calling their devices "phones"?).

the "fundamental unifying characteristic" of all phones so far has been the keypad, and Apple just decided they weren't going to play there. Considering the careful patent protection apple must have put in place, any alternative implementation of a non-keypad interface must end up being klunky as hell, and there's going to be simply no way for anybody else (and this is going to include Microsoft) to compete (bar some amazing genius in their staff who comes up with a new UI idea completely out of left field ... but such a genius is probably going to want to work for Apple instead, anyway).

Everybody kept saying "well MS never gets anything right until version 3.0 anyways" when they were comparing the Zune with the iPod. Well, Zune 3.0 can be the perfect MP3 player, but it won't matter, because this is the end of the "plain MP3 player" market dominance. sure they'll still continue to be sold, but the analysts who were talking about iPod sales levelling off or plunging in 2007 were, in fact, correct - but not because it's being taken over by external competition. I've dealt with windows mobile phones. they do not compare in any way with the UI of the iPhone.

The only problem with the iPhone I can think of is basically personal safety. Think of the mugging potential.

Re:Computers?

[jacobw]

The iTV / Apple TV... well, aside from the fact that you won't be able to get one for a little while yet, I'm not sure what it'd do for me that I can't already do. Apparently, the marketing went right over my head. Anyone have a summary of why this is an interesting product in a world of tivos, dvrs, frontrow, hi-def dvd and xbox and ps3 and so on? Aside from giving Apple a vector to sell DRM'd movies?

I was wondering the same thing. In fact, I had the same reaction to the iTV that I had to Widgets when they were first announced: this is nice enough, but it seems more like an upgrade to an existing apple product than like a revolutionary new thing.

Then I thought a bit more about the Widget analogy. With hindsight, I can now see the real purpose of Widgets. They're certainly useful on their own, but the long-term purpose of introducing them was to get lots of developers writing useful little stripped down programs--which will now be available on the iPhone. Widgets were what you might call a wedge technology. And Dashborad was just the thin end of that wedge.

So I have to assume that's what iTV is. I'm willing to bet that somewhere in Steve Job's desk is a timeline showing when they'll introduce TiVo like functionality to the AppleTV. (or, for that matter, merge the AppleTV and the iPod into an Archos-like device.) By the time that happens, they'll have had a few generations of experience to work out the basic bugs with the product, and perhaps to develop an ecosystem of third-party software and hardware designed around iTV.

Re:Fluffer

[Angostura]

I'm sorry but I get annoyed by comments that simply discount ergonomics and design.

Why would anyone EVER buy a hammer? This rock I have just picked up does exactly the same thing it does.

Re:There's a slot in the side...

[daviddennis]

I watched the introductory video C-Net has and they pointed out that there is apparently an opening for the SIM card on top of the device. Since the iPod dock connector is on the bottom, the slot on the side could be for a flash card -- or anything else.

I wish they had a keyboard and display adapter for when you want to type lots of stuff into it, like addresses or notes. The power of this device seems to just be dying for a larger display, especially for those of us with lamentably aging eyes. I wonder if this could be fixed up as an iPod accessory out of the dock.

Also, when I saw the introductory video it seems pretty clear that they are encouraging third party development for the device. Why do I say this, when it seems to fly in the face of the evidence of it being a tightly-integrated, Apple-only gadget?

Because of the discussion of MacOS X and the mention of Core Video and other MacOS X-based technologies. The only reason Core Video, etc, would be mentioned is to pique developer interest. This also means that there is almost certainly a way to get terminal and SSH through the device, as well as develop and install third-party software for it. This is an interesting departure from the iPod.

Another interesting correlary of this is that Word - or at least Notepad, which can read Word files, should work fine. And in that case, the support for word processor and spreadsheet files should be superior even to the Blackberry and Palm. Some people on the C|net forums mentioned that Blackberry and Palm should not be too concerned about the device due to its lack of support for documents sent in email; I would not be surprised at all if you could not only read, but edit these documents with the new device. If I'm right, Steve's demo, awesome though it was, has only scratched the surface of the new device's power.

Anyone have any idea what the CPU, memory and other tech specs are? It wouldn't surprise me if the memory was upgradeable (thus that slot) and needs to be for the device to work up to its full potential.

D

OpenMoko

[p7]

Lots of the iPhone features will be available this month on the FIC Neo1973 Smartphone. It is also an open platform.

http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html/

Re:Leopard and June 1

[daviddennis]

A tanatalizing hint: When you saw the mention of it running MacOS X, the slide behind Steve mentioned all the technologies surrounding it, including things like Core Video.

I don't think Steve would mention Core Video if it was not there for third-party developers to use. This is a huge change from the iPod, but remember that the iPod operating system was not made by Apple. Odds are that it didn't have the power to work well as an open system.

Also note that the widgets are very similar to Tiger widgets. I think that at the very least, widgets developed for MacOS X will run on the phone with at most minor changes.

Steve wants to show off the phone to consumers, so it's natural for him not to play up the idea of third-party support, until it actually exists. Next year at this time, he may well brag about all the third-party folks who have beavered away to create wonderful stuff for it. But the device was secret until now, so that has to wait.

D

Re:EDGE not EVDO

[jedrek]

actually, edge is a LOT faster than gprs:

EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots

The maximum speed of a GPRS connection (as offered in 2003) is the same as modem connection in an analog wire telephone network, about 4-5 kB/s (depending on the phone used).

from wikipedia

The strategy

[ghjm]

If they want a phone that actually works on launch day, then they have to partner with a carrier. There are two ways to do that: Become a private label operator like Virgin Mobile on the Sprint PCS network, or release the phone on a carrier network.

All cell phone carriers have spotty radio coverage and poor customer service. This is unavoidable. If Apple becomes a private label carrier then the Apple brand has to absorb the damage of being in the cell carrier business. There's no reason on earth why Apple would want that.

So they partner with Cingular. Then, either the iPhone flops or it wildly succeeds. (Given the development costs that went into it, anything short of define-a-new-subculture success can be counted as failure.) If it succeeds and drives substantial consumer demand to Cingular, then every other carrier will find a way to have one. Most likely they will all do deals with Apple, just like they all did deals for the Treo.

If, unthinkably, Apple was dumb enough to sign an exclusivity agreement with Cingular, then we get to see what vPhone and sPhone and T-Phone look like (my guess on the vPhone: you interact with it as per a Rubik's Cube, except it costs you a buck every time you turn something).

-Graham

Re:Intel CPU on Apple TV = cheap Linux/ mythtv box

[complete loony]

It has a USB port, it probably runs some kind of OSX (since it seems to display the iTunes album interface, front row, and has a local 40gb disk cache). While I wouldn't bet on it without testing, I'd guess it can use the eyetv usb tuner. It can definitely stream video over the network, so it can probably use an eyetv tuner attached to another machine, windows or mac.

Re:Canada?

[Westacular]

It says 'Cingular' under Rogers because they're both GSM networks and they have a roaming agreement with each other. The "AT&T" thing with Rogers Wireless was a marketing partnership that has since ceased; Rogers is a completely independent company from AT&T and Cingular.

That said, it's almost a certainty that Rogers will be the carrier for the iPhone whenever it is released in Canada, because of the simple fact that Rogers is the only real Canada-wide GSM network (especially since Rogers bought Fido, which was it only competitor in this aspect). It's a safe assumption that Apple is not intending on making a CDMA version of the iPhone, so Rogers is their only real choice for Canadians.

The big question is when. Canada's wireless providers have consistently lagged behind those in the US in the arena of "finally bringing the price of [some new feature] down to sane levels", and Apple is apparently promising a certain level user freedom that wireless providers have traditionally been reluctant to provide. Rogers, for instance, strongly encourages users to get songs on to their music phones via it's own iTunes-like service: "Rogers MusicStore songs start at $1.99 plus a download fee". Start at $2, and then you're still nickel-and-dimed for the bandwidth. I don't think they'll be happy if offering the iPhone means letting Apple undercut them on all their prices.

Re:Wide Screen

[kyouteki]

Very few televisions have digital audio in, outside of HDMI. If one must hook up with component, one will probably also be using R/L analogue audio.

Touchscreen Keypads Suck!

[shaneh0]

Touchscreen Keypads Suck. Horribly.

There is no tactile feel. I can dial a $20 cell phone without having to see or hear it. I've used touchscreen keypads on existing phones already and you have to look when you dial.

And you make it sounds like Apple invented the keypad-less phone. Did you happen to miss the dozen phones that have been out for years now that lack a dial pad?

Re:Touchscreen Keypads Suck!

[Anonymous Coward]

In other news, MP3 players without arrow keys suck. Horribly.

Doesn't Apple know this? How can you down-arrow without an arrow?

Don't they know about the Nomad?

Re:Touchscreen Keypads Suck!

[Anonymous Coward]

My friend works on the iPhone and was telling me about the predictive typing on the thing. He says at first it felt weird, but if you trust the phone you can type really really fast on it. It knows that if you are trying to type "hello" and your fingers instead mash on "hrllo", it knows that you meant hello because "hrl" is just plain silly. I asked another friend who has used the iPhone before and he agreed - at first the lack of tactile feedback is odd, but it is definitely fast to type on.

Personally, my only worry is that it'll be harder to use while driving... I like to keep my eyes on the road while driving and i can dial a number without looking at the phone (or hit 1 + send to call girlfriend, yay for speed dial). And yes, I use bluetooth in the car - I don't hold the phone to my head while driving. Unlocking this thing looks like it would take TWO hands (one to hold it, one to slide from left to right) and then you'd have to look at it to dial - even speed dial... unless there is some sort of voice recognition I'm not familiar with.

Then again, perhaps the fact that people can't use this easily in the car will be GOOD for humanity as a whole :D

MD5 Hash......

[shaneh0]

I swear, it's the strangest thing. When I ran this guys post thru an MD5 algorithm, the hash it returned was "fanboi"

Ah, the mysteries and miracles of one-way hashing.

You don't develop for the BlackBerry, obviously.

[hotsauce]

http://www.blackberry.com/developers/downloads/jde /index.shtml

Free download of IDE and simulator. Example app code, great documentation. No NDAs.

There is no need to limit development for the iPhone, and with the business smarts it took Apple to create this thing, it is unlikely they will criple it by trying to limit development.

Why would they? They are not Sony trying to milk a marketshare, they are the iPod company coming to a market they want to dominate. The amount of engineering resources it took to create this thing shows they will do what a takes for a piece of the pie.

Apple ignores corporate America again....

[zerofoo]

The iPhone looks like a great device, but no company I know will deploy them....why?

No Exchange support.

Sure, it supports POP and IMAP, but full exchange support is much more than that. Having deployed hundreds of Treos, Blackberries, and Windows Mobile devices, I can say that Exchange support is necessary if you want to sell into the corporate market.

Maybe Goodlink will support the iPhone but, now that Motorola owns them, I doubt it.

-ted

Speculating

[ubernostrum]

I can think of a few possible explanations for the lack of Leopard in the keynote:

• Most of the developer-related changes in Leopard -- which are the ones that really need to be pre-announced -- are already out in the open, and have been since WWDC. So the iPhone got to take center stage at MacWorld and get all the attention.
• A number of previews of 10.5 developer tools that I've seen are built to expire in July, which would seem to hint at a summer release; that would be closer to WWDC 2007, which would mean that's the logical time to demo the finalized OS (and also to announce new machines shipping with it preinstalled).
• The main unresolved thing about Leopard is a hint Jobs dropped that there were UI changes on the way; the last time Apple did a significant UI refresh, they kept it secret until the last possible minute. If Leopard contains significant new UI, it wouldn't be surprising if they kept a lid on it again.
• Adobe's Creative Suite 3 (including the much-clamored-for Intel-native Photoshop) is still in beta, and waiting to release 10.5 at around the same time as the final CS3 would give many Mac users who live and breathe Photoshop a compelling reason to upgrade immediately, boosting initial adoption.

Sorry to throw cold water on your imaginings.

[jcr]

I asked the obvious question right after the house lights came up, and there is no public SDK for this device, just like the other iPods. This was right from Ron Okamoto (Apple's VP of developer relations.)

-jcr

Re:Sorry to throw cold water on your imaginings.

[Atryn]

there is no public SDK for this device

That seems odd to me and I wonder if they won't change that before long. Given the highlighting of widget functionality and the inherently developer-friendly nature of widgets on OSX...

Also found it very strange that there was no interface to iTunes Store... I suppose you can use Safari on it to go to the Store, but your purchases would only be available after returning to your PC, dowloading and syncing?

Yes.

[cappadocius]

but is having to plug in a cord once a day really such a hassle?

For a phone? Yes, I'd say so.

iPhone Price Explained

[IanDanforth]

1. Cingular is not subsidizing the iPhone

What this means is that the iPhone really costs $499 and $599 (minus the hefty markup that Apple likes to add) not the $800 some of you are assuming by factoring in a subsidy.

2. The 2-year contract and long-term partnership is a payoff to Cingular for doing what Jobs says.

Cingular demanded something to work with Apple on features like Random Access Voicemail, and not subsidizing the phone (which is a huge selling point for service based companies)

3. The price point allows Apple to continue to sell iPods at their marked-up prices.

If you can get an 8gb iPod in a phone for less than a regular iPod next time you renew your cell contract, why would you ever buy an iPod?

Jobs wants to sell phones, sell iPods, and maintain the pay-more-for-higher-quality image that Apple enjoys. This is how he's going to do it.

Re:Leopard and June 1

[clonmult]

And just how many DS games are purely based around the touch screen? Its an additional input method, but the majority of games/apps for the DS use the other controls as well.

I think V-Rally on the old SE P800/900 range showed a racing game with a reasonable control method, but far from ideal.

Was there any mention of J2ME support on the iPhone? The majority of mobile gaming seems to do a fairly decent job of handling 3D via Java now (look at Helistrike, Ashphalt 3D, etc.), and its getting mature enough to make a viable gaming platform.

Re:iChat integration

[Serious Callers Only]

Where the HELL is iChat integration? As in, IM'ing or calling your iChat contacts, maybe not from GSM / Edge network, but at least from any WiFi hotspot? I certainly hope they thought about it?!

This is an obvious progression, as is audio and video ichat. The thing is, if they put that in straight away, what telco in their right mind would partner with them? Apple would basically be saying 'We're going to make your entire business model obsolete, would you like to support our phone?'. The telcos would be extremely unhappy about people moving over to text messaging at data rates instead of SMS for example. Even now they must be treading a fine line with telcos knowing that in future their interests and Apple's diverge drastically.

At present Apple need the big telecos to get their phone supported and accepted in the market. Over the next few years that will change, particularly if they can tempt many ipod users to switch to this product and build up a large userbase which demands support for their phones. Once Apple are established in many markets worldwide and too big a presence to crush, expect them to use that weight to introduce text and audio chat, video conferencing etc over wifi (perhaps later WiMax) eventually bypassing the telecom networks completely for many customers most of the time (those who live in wifi saturated areas. They can do all this with a simple software update.

Personally I think opening up the software side will be more important, as it can allow third party vendors to do things that Apple wouldn't dare to do on their own. Aside from the functions you mentioned, soon these devices will be able to replace a laptop, if you can use them with a bluetooth keyboard and TV, but all that will depend on a healthy software ecosystem, so here's hoping Apple sees the light and releases an SDK for it.

Re:no pictures of the back

[ericlondaits]

The camera is in the back????

I guess they don't see the potential of video chat... or perhaps they see the potential of sex video chat, since you can point the camera to your genitals while looking at the other party's.