Sony Ships 2 Million PS3s, May Still Miss Goal

Despite the news (at Gamasutra) that Sony has already shipped 2 Million PlayStation 3s, Next Generation reports that analysts are still doomcasting Sony's early next-gen efforts. The Japanese investment firm Nomura is now saying they expect Sony to be able to ship approximately 4.5 million PlayStation 3 units by the end of the fiscal year in March. This is only 75% of the company's stated goal. From the article: "Despite early manufacturing issues and a subsequent European delay, Sony has maintained that it will still ship 6 million PS3s worldwide by the end of its fiscal year. The company recently said that it met its goal to ship 1 million units in North America by the end of calendar year 2006. NPD Group reported last week that the console sold 490,700 units in the US in December, with 687,300 sold life-to-date in the region." I think it's still a mite early to say what's going to be happening in March, but there are a lot of unhappy investors listening to these reports right now.

Comments

BFD

[supabeast!]

Sony needs to worry less about shipping PS3s and worry more about selling the ones that are already out there. If some really cool games don't ship this year the PS3 could just end up as another expensive game system nobody could justify buying.

Re:BFD

[Thansal]

They will ship a few "cool" games this year. They mainly still only have their core franchizes however. Nothing much on the lines of new ones. My guess is that if they can get FFXIII (yes, we really are up to 13) out relatively soon they should see a nice boost in sales, combine that with other things like Devil May Cry, Dynasty Warriors, etc etc, and they might stil lhave a shot.

I will not count them out (hey, it does make awsome purdy graphics, and you can pack a HECK of alot of stuff onto a blu-ray disc). We shall see.

(note, I am a nintendo fan, and so my views are probably stilted a bit, but hey, every one has stilted views)

Re:BFD

[jackharrer]

As you probably know creating games for PS3 is hard. And not only because SDK is hardly available (at least for average people) + expensive you also have problems with Cell processors. They're fast beasts but very hard to tame. There's a lot problems with multi-threading. Until Sony resolves those issues PS3 will be just an expensive console.

Re:BFD

[AKAImBatman]

If some really cool games don't ship this year the PS3 could just end up as another expensive game system nobody could justify buying.

To a certain degree, the same is true of the Wii. We're halfway through January now, and the majority of games on the horizon are Virtual Console games. That means that the hefty Gamecube library (of games most Wii owners haven't played) is holding up the value of the console. If the demand for the console wasn't keeping morale so high, you'd already be hearing grumbling about when new games will be coming out. The $250 price tag certainly wouldn't be convincing consumers to buy it just to play Gamecube games.

The only difference is that Nintendo managed their launch a lot better with greater supply, lower price tag, and a wider variety of cool games. Sony is scrambling only because they mis-managed their launch with a poor game selection, high price tag, and low availability. Things will get interesting next Christmas when both consoles have well-stocked libraries and lower price tags. Don't think for a minute that Sony isn't going to flex its market muscle and deep pockets at that time.

That being said, I think of lot of the PS3's eventual muscle will be deflected or absorbed by the XBox 360. Which would leave the Wii in a much better position. My only message to Nintendo is this: Don't get cocky!

Re:BFD

[Branko]

SDK is hardly available

And if PS2 SDK is any indication, it will be of less then ideal quality.

This is exactly why MS has a chance at beating Sony in the next-gen console war. Multi-threaded programming is hard as it is, but Microsoft is at least providing developers with tools that do not make it even harder.

Re:BFD

[shlepp]

Sony will need to release as many hit games as Microsoft has out on the 360, and well i hate to burst the -s3's bubble but UT2007 is coming to 360, so you can scratch that off the ps3's hit list as the 360 will have it as well. With GTA 4 coming to 360 as well, one of the most popular series of the Playstation2 wont be a ps3 only. Sony will really need to come up with something really really good that its console will have, that the 360 wont (but it has to be really good, like along the scale of Gears of War type of Hit). And i bet the 360 will get Crysis and Project Offset more then likely, and of course the 360 will get all of Carmacks new games. Honestly everything is in favor of the 360 except its fan base.

Re:BFD

[computertheque]

Sony's pockets aren't that deep at the moment. I agree with your statement on software availability for both consoles. I am a Wii owner, an having beaten Zelda, and basically sitting on my hands for something good to come along. Taking a look at a release schedule isn't doing much to put me at ease.

Re:BFD

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"Sony needs to worry less about shipping PS3s and worry more about selling the ones that are already out there."

Yeah.. they should take all the assembly workers at the factories and put them into marketing.

Re:BFD

[jimicus]

Wasn't something very similar true of the Dreamcast?

Re:BFD

[AKAImBatman]

Sony's pockets aren't that deep at the moment.

They're still far deeper than Nintendos. Even if they don't have the cash reserves, they have sufficient credit to do nearly anything they need to do.

Personally, I hope the entire executive staff (also known as "pond scum") are evicted from their positions and replaced by a newer, more consumer-friendly bunch, but I don't think that's going to happen. At least not for a while. Which means that Sony will continue with their age old strategy of attempting to steamroll the competition.

Re:BFD

[Original Replica]

Maybe there are still consumers that remember how the music branch of Sony treats there customers. Could the "Sony" name have become a liability?

Re:BFD

[GeckoX]

Yep, this is par for the course for a new Sony console. The only thing that _might_ make this fail is the other consoles. As for this release though, there are never many great games available when a new sony console comes out. This is for a number of reasons, but most revolve around the more complicated system they always end up putting out. It takes a couple of years to learn how to squeeze everything out of a new piece of sony kit.

There are always a certain number of people that buy a new PS immediately, but they've never had a console that just flew off the shelves at launch. They're like the locomotive in the industry, take a long time to get moving, but once they are look out. Prices fall, footprint reduces, games come out in droves, sales grow and grow and grow.

IMHO, all we can tell at this point about the current state of the consoles is this:
a) It's too early as usual to weigh in on Sony, but the indicators show similar success to previous launches.
b) MS is in a typical holding pattern. Picking up more sales due to the timing of games being available and specifically, a couple games that the japanese market is actually interested in.
c) The Wii is off to a great start...time will tell, but unless they screw up the games coming down the pipe in the future, it should be Nintendo's most successful console to date.

Don't expect much to change for at LEAST another year. Now taking bets on how many articles on this subject we'll see here within that time...I think we're already well over half a dozen ;)

Re:BFD

[UbuntuDupe]

Which would leave the Wii in a much better position. My only message to Nintendo is this: Don't get cocky!

Nintendo ... *Wii*

That ship has already sailed.

Re:BFD

[Total_Wimp]

That being said, I think of lot of the PS3's eventual muscle will be deflected or absorbed by the XBox 360. Which would leave the Wii in a much better position. My only message to Nintendo is this: Don't get cocky!

For a variety of reasons, people have made this a Wii/PS3 grudge match, but they're not the only players, and not necessarily the closest competitors. Nintendo will do very well if people decide they want a Wii because of the Wii's merits. But if people who otherwise might like a PS3 for it's merits ultimately decide they can't afford a PS3, can't wait for a PS, don't like the current game lineup or don't like Sony, potentially Microsoft has more to gain than Nintendo.

In other words, a Vote for Wii is a vote for Wii, but a vote against PS3 could very well end up a vote for 360

TW

Re:BFD

[GeckoX]

Who cares where UT2007 is going? That is still predominantly a PC game. Very easy to port to the 360 because of this. FPS's still, and likely never will, be that big a market segment on most consoles. Yes, controls have gotten better, but they still utterly suck compared to the control you get on a PC.

For some reason, the 360 has carved out a niche with FPS's and found a solid group of gamers that seem to enjoy FPS's on a console quite a bit. Couldn't tell you why, I've tried all the key suspects myself and still would never sit down at a 360 to play a FPS over my PC. But hey, it obviously works for some...thus there is a market there for UT2007. Not so much on the PS3.

That really says nothing about the potential success of the PS3 though. Just like Halo sells millions of xboxen on that title alone, FF sells millions of playstations, and will again. It'll have a lot more to do with the breadth and quality of the entire game library on a particular system...something that won't really be obvious for a year or two from now.

Re:BFD

[Anonymous Coward]

May I suggest Trauma Center and Excite Truck. I enjoyed both of them much more than Zelda.

Re:BFD

[Amouth]

that is one reason i don't buy sony.. the other is their laptops.. while other mfg's that put in card readers that are SD/MMC/Memory stick compatiable, sony only put in memory stick.. it is that type of attitude that will make them fall.

they are trying to be apple - only apple can pull off masive lockin but that is because they offer a it just works mentality - sony only offers it only works with our crap vision - and personaly the quality of their crap is and has been falling for years..

Re:BFD

[darien]

My only message to Nintendo is this: Don't get cocky!

I have another piece of advice for them too: "crack, crack, crack the egg into the bowl."

Re:BFD

[IcyNeko]

I was at Sam's Club last night, and they're so desperate to sell PS3's that they've moved it to the checkout lane. Now when did a $600 space heater become an impulse buy?

Re:BFD

[TemporalBeing]

To a certain degree, the same is true of the Wii. We're halfway through January now, and the majority of games on the horizon are Virtual Console games. That means that the hefty Gamecube library (of games most Wii owners haven't played) is holding up the value of the console.

Actually, while new games would help as well, the whole Virtual Console is probably the largest selling point of the Wii. Think about it - all the legacy games that came out when people were 5, 10, 15 years old and are now not available, or they couldn't buy them at that time, but now they are coming out for a brand new system. How many people would go back and play Metroid, Super Mario Brothers, Tetris, Mario Kart, and the numerous other games that were popular in the 80's? Or how about the obscure ones that had a small market, but were well loved in that market?

The Virtual Console is perhaps the number one reason why I will be buying a Wii when I can. New games (ExciteTruck, etc.) are a secondary thought for me as I am more interested in the games that I could not buy when I was a kid, but will now be available on the Wii.

This market is far larger than what Microsoft or Sony could compete with, if they even could - fact is, they can't as their systems have not been around so long, and their games have been so large it would not be very easy to do. (1 CD or DVD compared to the few hundred kilobytes of the older Nintendo - even the N64 - consoles.)

Re:BFD

[Anonymous Coward]

Wasn't something very similar true of the Dreamcast?

No, the Saturn. The Dreamcast was designed for ease of programming -- in fact Sega made a WinCE-based dev kit available for those who wanted it -- and had the traditional one-CPU/one-GPU architecture, as opposed two the Saturn's complicated dual-CPU setup.

Re:BFD

[ElleyKitten]

To a certain degree, the same is true of the Wii. We're halfway through January now, and the majority of games on the horizon are Virtual Console games.

While there are a lot of VC games, Nintendo isn't slouching on Wii games. Wario Ware is out this week (which is driving me nuts because I really can't afford it), Wii Play is out next month (ahh! where's my money!), and Mario Party's showing up the month after. Later this year we should be getting Sonic, Dragon Quest, Mario, Metroid, and Smash. And I still need to get Elebits and Super Swing Golf. I've never bought a console at launch before, and I couldn't be happier that I did this time (well, except when I look at my wallet, but my Wii's been very good at distracting me from that).

As for the PS3? Well, if you're an RPG fan and the PS2 was your bread and butter you have... Oblivion and hopefully FF13 to look forward to this year. If your a shooter/sports/fighting game fan, then you'd be more frugal buying a 360. I'll admit that I might be judging PS3 games too harshly because I just don't like their genres and they might really be good games for those who like that sort of thing, but I love my PS2 and in fact FF12 has seen more play this week than my Wii. Sony's gotta do something to get back all the RPG fans who adored the PS1+2, because right now the DS is looking like a more attractive platform for us, with DQ9 and being a fifth the price.

Re:BFD

[gfxguy]

I thought PS3's "languishing" on shelves while Wiis sold out was a lot of hooey until I was at a local Target yesterday that had at least TWO PS3s on the PS3 shelf (there may have been units behind those, they were pulled forward and in a case, so I couldn't look and didn't care to anyway), and sold out of Wiis.

And I think back to those sad, impatient morons who paid thousands one month ago. Saps.

Re:BFD

[gfxguy]

[blockquote]Don't expect much to change for at LEAST another year.[/blockquote]

That'll be around when the first price drop happens (or maybe the second - after the first round of idiots with too much money buy the consoles, they often drop prices around E3). When that happens, I might consider a Wii. Unfortunately, with the Wii selling so well, and already cheaper than the competition, they might hold back on price drops.

Anyway, props to Nintendo. I know this is a Sony article, but it just doesn't seem like they are doing anything right lately.

Re:BFD

[gfxguy]

I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who were so caught up in the hype that they wouldn't even start looking again for months.

As I mentioned in another post, I didn't believe all you guys posting that PS3s were available everywhere until I saw it for myself the other day. It's not that I don't get out much, it's that I don't bother looking. My son wandered over to play some games at Target, and that's when I saw what everyone has been saying: no Wiis, but PS3s gathering dust.

Unbelievable. That is, until I remember the price tag. It's not even that they are not worth it (I haven't decided whether they are or not), it's that even if it's worth it, that still doesn't make it affordable. A Rolls Royce might be worth it, that doesn't mean we can all run out and buy one.

Re:BFD

[NineNine]

There aren't any PS3's out there!. I've been trying to get one since launch date, and I still can't find any.

Re:BFD

[Chibi Merrow]

Well my Best Buy has some, even though it doesn't say they do on the website, so don't ask me...

Re:BFD

[IcyNeko]

Price tag doesn't matter so much to me as the reliability and the fire hazard. PS3's rolled out nothing but bad news -- failure in backwards compatability, lower resolution on games that ARE backwards compatable, overheating issue, AIDS, Cholera... you mention it, PS3's got it.

Hell, I'd pay $599 USD to punch Kaz Hirai in the face for a few minutes.

Re:BFD

[EmperorKagato]

No. Just third party developers were discussed with Sega for abandoning the saturn.

Re:BFD

[Anonymous Coward]

Forget online sources -- Sony shipped them all to B&M stores. If you know anyone who lives near the Dallas area, just ask them to get you one. I have yet to find a B&M store around here which does not have multiple PS3 units in stock.

Re:BFD

[SydShamino]

While waiting around until midnight at a GameStop last night for the WoW expansion, we talked a little with the employees about PS3/Wii/etc. They said that, so far, they have had TWO people return PS3s for trade in. (Not for full value return like with eBayers who were screwed, but trade in for people who bought it and didn't like it.)

Sad, that.

Re:BFD

[twistedsymphony]

They will ship a few "cool" games this year. They mainly still only have their core franchizes however. Nothing much on the lines of new ones. My guess is that if they can get FFXIII (yes, we really are up to 13) out relatively soon they should see a nice boost in sales, combine that with other things like Devil May Cry, Dynasty Warriors, etc etc, and they might stil lhave a shot.

I agree that FFXIII would deliver the much needed boost however isn't that game more of a 2008 release? considering FFXII was just recently released XIII probably wont be out for at least another year, probably even longer considering it's a generation jump. And then comes the question if it would still be a PS3 exclusive if the sales haven't improved enough by that point. Devil May Cry would certainly help but that's another one rumored to be going cross platform, Capcom is making kissy faces with MS right now after the success of Dead Rising and the good response so far of Lost Planet (which is based on the same engine and DMC4 BTW). Dynasty Warriors is a full fledged cross platform title now, and has already enjoyed 2 released on the 360. Their best bets are MGS4 and Tekken6, but even those probably wont see light until about November and it's doubtful if even those titles could move a $600 console without a solid library to back them up.

Re:BFD

[LordVader717]

I think this guy must have ruined all their marketing efforts.

Re:BFD

[magicchex]

I don't think the average consumer remembers nor thinks anything about rootkits when considering the PS3.

Re:BFD

[Doodlepants]

PS3 ?? Where ?? Its been a month now since I started looking everywhere to get my hands on a 60g PS3. They are nowhere to be found except online on ebay.

Re:BFD

[0kComputer]

Your post is utter bullshit. How the hell it got modded interesting is beyond me.
There are always a certain number of people that buy a new PS immediately, but they've never had a console that just flew off the shelves at launch. They're like the locomotive in the industry, take a long time to get moving, but once they are look out. Prices fall, footprint reduces, games come out in droves, sales grow and grow and grow.

Yet, the PS2 initially sold well partly on the basis of the strength of the PlayStation brand and its backward compatibility, selling over 900,000 units in the first weekend in Japan - this is not the same as whats going on now.

unless they screw up the games coming down the pipe in the future, it should be Nintendo's most successful console to date.
I highly doubt the wii, or any console is going to sell better than the first Nintendo system did back in the mid 80's.

Re:BFD

[Thansal]

Wow, I admit I havn't been following the PS3 games that closely (not interested in em), so I didn't know the news was that bad! I seriously thought those titles were slated for release this year.

Ah well, as I said, I don't REALLY care that much about the PS3 one way or another. I gues I might like it to tank, so I can pick up a 360 next generation and play ALL the games I skiped this generation.

Re:BFD

[7Prime]

Yes, FF13 is a 2008 release... that has nothing to do with the fact that FF12 was just released (FF8 and FF9 were less than a year apart, since they were developed similtaneously by different teams), but yes, it's not going to be out any time soon. And I'm glad other people are starting to question FF13s exlusivity, which I think is in danger of completely disappearing. I still maintain that Square has probably had an 360 version in the works, all along, just in case the PS3 tanks.

Re:BFD

[twistedsymphony]

And I'm glad other people are starting to question FF13s exlusivity, which I think is in danger of completely disappearing. I still maintain that Square has probably had an 360 version in the works, all along, just in case the PS3 tanks.

I really do hope it comes to the 360, it's one of the few titles that draw me to the Playstation brand. If they did make the jump to the Xbox 360 exclusively, or even time limited exclusivity it would be earth shattering to the industry. The 360 would start selling like crazy in Japan and many many other Japanese developers would follow suit; Sony would be reduced to about what Sega was during the Saturn era.

Re:BFD

[DarkJC]

To be fair..

1. Very few failures in backwards compatibility (especially compared to the 360).
2. Lower resolution? What? All PS2 games play at their original resolution. There's some issue with certain games but it has nothing to do with resolution.
3. I've yet to hear reports of the PS3 overheating, except for the crappy demo kiosks, and I assume that's because they're starving for air in their closed space. No reports of PS3s overheating in peoples homes as far as I know.

Honestly, the PS3 is a great piece of launch hardware, especially compared to the 360 which was abysmal at launch (returned 360's galore) and still tends to have many problems (I still hear stories of people who are on their 3rd+ 360, nothing like that about PS3). I'm not saying that everything PS3 is perfect, there are issues, it's just that you didn't really mention any of them.

Re:BFD

[Kris_J]

That means that the hefty Gamecube library (of games most Wii owners haven't played) is holding up the value of the console.

I think you're misunderestimating how long it takes to get through the Wii's Zelda, or how much fun can be had from that rabbits game, or the bundled sports title. Sure, I'd like an MMO, but it's not like I'm spending all my Wii time playing GC games, or that I've downloaded even a single virtual console title.

Re:BFD

[Cerium]

I don't think many will get the reference here. Shame too... Parapa was a fun game.

Re:BFD

[camperslo]

There are piles of them where I live. I ran into a guy bringing back two he didn't manage to resell.
I wish I had a picture of the look on his face as they told him he'd have to pay a restocking fee... priceless.
I talked to him briefly. He said he tried to sell them on Craigslist, but kept getting bumped off as spam.

Re:BFD

[miro f]

Yeah.. they should take all the assembly workers at the factories and put them into marketing.

they can't do much worse a job than Sony's current marketing geniuses...

Re:BFD

[a 2 Bathtub Larva]

A bit of a problem with the E3 timing.

I wonder if this had something to do with it. It would seem MS and Sony had some trouble getting thier demos going on time, and Nintendo stole the show.

Perhaps this helped seal the deal for E3 (for now) as the majority of game companies cannot redifine gaming every E3 and stand to get much less press than the big few who try.

As far as Sony not doing anything right lately, the simply have too many divisions that have competing and different needs. They really need to spin off some departments imho. After the root kit incident I really don't care what happens to Sony but if they are going to do outrageous things like that they need to hide it behind a different company name at the very least.

Regards,
a +2 Bathtub Larva

Re:BFD

[NineNine]

What's a B&M? Is that a store?

Re:BFD

[bgeerdes]

The only difference is that Nintendo managed their launch a lot better with greater supply, lower price tag, and a wider variety of cool games.

Wow, is that all? This Sony bashing is indeed unjustified.

Re:BFD

[CK2004PA]

PS3 ?? Where ?? Its been a month now since I started looking everywhere to get my hands on a 60g PS3. They are nowhere to be found except online on ebay.
You are joking right ? Gamestop just announced $100 off the 60Gb or 20GB PS3 if you give them your PS2, the PS2 sells the PS3 is eating their shelf space. Check your newspaper or just to your local gamestop, huge sign in front of the two GS stores in my area.

Re:BFD

[WageDomain]

Just curious, where are you getting your data from? Last I heard, Nintendo was making vast profits off of just about everything they do, and have posted an increase in virtually every year they have been around (save one), while Sony's profits over all dropped a ridiculous amount of money, and they have been quite often in the red many many times in the Games division.

I'm just wondering if you have any actual numbers, because I am honestly curious to see who DOES have "deeper pockets" at the moment. Is there something behind this, or are you just assuming they have more money because they make more products?

Re:BFD

[AKAImBatman]

Nintendo Market Capital: 34.5 billion
Sony Market Capital: 47.6 billion

I'm actually a bit surprised that their market caps have even gotten that close, but I suppose it has as much to do with Sony's decline as it does Nintendo's resurgence.

Sony encompasses a great deal more markets than Nintendo, which is why they're significantly larger than Nintendo even at their worst.

Re:BFD

[WageDomain]

Definitely interesting numbers. The thing to remember, though, is that simply because Sony has more markets, the numbers are skewed. In this case, Nintendo really would have more money to spend, since Sony has money off in so many directions, and Nintendo is solely focused on games. To be fair, the comparison really should be between Nintendo and Sony's Gaming division, right?

Re:BFD

[AKAImBatman]

To be fair, the comparison really should be between Nintendo and Sony's Gaming division, right?

Yes!
And no.

It all depends upon how much weight each company wants to throw into the ring. Sony's gaming division is the corner stone to their Blu Ray strategy. Their Blu Ray strategy ties back into their movie and music entertainment strategy. Their movie and music entertainment strategy ties back into their electronics strategy. So on and so forth.

Since the Playstation is so important to all their divisions, Sony can decide to subsidize the gaming division using funds from other divisions. Thus Sony gaming division can get a huge shot in the arm any time Sony Corp feels like it should.

I imagine that Sony is also counting on Nintendo to be Nintendo. Nintendo doesn't try to force the market in the same way Sony does, and is unlikely to throw its full force into the ring. This is especially important for Nintendo as they don't have as many other divisions to fall back on should their gaming strategy fail.

Re:BFD

[WageDomain]

A lot of this is true. However, the allocation of funds for both companies is going to be vastly different. Sony merely cannot afford to spend over x% on just gaming, due to costs from other divisions. Nintendo can. No matter how important Blue-ray is to the company, there will come a point when Sony cannot afford to put more into it. Pushing 100% of their available money towards the gaming division would be a very incredibly stupid move for Sony, however 100% of Nintendo's money is already, arguably, allocated to the gaming division :)

Re:BFD

[Shabadage]

MGS4 is making the X360 jump. Word is they're MAKING Kojima port it over. IMO: It MIGHT be exclusive for the PS3 for a few months, but that's about it. It's sad, I don't think Konami could make their money back on MGS4 without a multiplatform release; the PS3 just isn't selling as well as expected, and MGS4 has a HUGE budget. As it stands now and probably for the next 3 or 4 months; there aren't enough systems out there to make Konami's money back, even if EVERY Ps3 owner buys a copy. And now that MGS4 if heading to the X360, Sony just lost a lot of MGS4's system selling power. (GTA proved that games can sell hardware; but GTA4 is heading to X360 as well, with encanced features) I'm thinking we're going to see much more of this type of thing; I think it's going to be a very close race this generation (Between Sony and M$; not even a god knows what's going to happen with the Wii)

Re:BFD

[AKAImBatman]

however 100% of Nintendo's money is already, arguably, allocated to the gaming division :)

I don't know. Does Nintendo still make toys and playing cards for the Japanese market? ;)

I know where they can get some

[Just Some Guy]

That's OK. There are plenty sitting on the shelf at the local Wal-Mart that they could probably ship to less apathetic areas.

Re:I know where they can get some

[elrous0]

less apathetic areas

I hear they're really big in Holland.

-Eric

Re:I know where they can get some

[Midnight Thunder]

I know you were joking, but here is a useful site http://www.ps3seeker.com/ for the PS3 and http://www.ps3seeker.com/wii for the Wii.

Re:I know where they can get some

[KDR_11k]

I hear in Europe they aren't even released yet.

subject beaten to death??

[Mowie_X]

Maybe just slightly? You can't look at any of the major news sites, google news, etc... without Ps3/Wii/Xbox360 sales figures inundating you. How much of this actually matters to Joe Consumer? I speculate the only part of this that actually matters to most game buyers is that it'll be slightly easier to find a Ps3 on the shelves this Xmas than Wii.

Re:subject beaten to death??

[cowscows]

Meh, if I were going to spend $600 on a video game console, I'd feel much better about it knowing that it was outselling all the other consoles 4:1, which would be a pretty good guarantee that it would see a ton of games in the future.

I don't think it's all over for the PS3 at this point, but things aren't looking great for them at the moment.

because

[Aurisor]

It matters because no matter how much Joe Consumer likes his PS3, if the console isn't met with some measure of success in the market at large, it's not going to get developer support and games are not going to materialize.

Couldn't resist

[rlp]

So Sony's got a wii problem with their next-gen console.

Re:Couldn't resist

[Trogre]

That's funny, I always thought wii was a waste product.

So what?

[the computer guy nex]

I went to purchase the newest Warioware game for Wii last night and saw a half dozen PS3's sitting on the shelves of my local Best Buy.

Who really cares how many consoles have been "shipped" ?

Re:So what?

[master_kaos]

yes exactly. It would be interesting to see how many have actually been sold, and how many have been returned (from defects, ebay returns, etc) I am not biased or anything, I like any console that is really fun, and I can see myself owning a PS3 in a year or to. But so far I havent heard anything entirely positive about this console, but have heard barely anything negative about the Wii (besides PEBKAC err maybe it should be PEBTAR (TV And Remote)

Re:So what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh look, the old Xbox astroturfer is back with a lameass attempt at FUD.

In January 2006 he made up stories about desperate but futile(because it's just so darn popular ya know!) searches for the Xbox 360.

In January 2007 he makes up stories about unsold PS3s...

So damn pathetic.

Re:So what?

[UbuntuDupe]

Who really cares how many consoles have been "shipped" ?

I care -- if the console you're talking about is the Wii, which has been selling out everywhere with no end in sight.

Luckily, I got one at launch, but what's keeping Nintendo from meeting the demand?

Re:So what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh look, the old PS3 astroturfer is back with a lameass attempt at FUD.

In January 2007 he made up stories about legitimate posters faking burgeoning supplies of PS3s at retailers across Japan and the US.

In January 2007 he thinks the PS3 is selling, despite widespread photographic evidence of the contrary...

So damn pathetic.

Re:So what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Most people. Stores don't build up large inventories.
We there really *half dozen PS3's* there? WOW. Thats many!
Are you kidding or just being ignorant?

Re:So what?

[Thansal]

what's keeping Nintendo from meeting the demand?

same thing that happens at every launch. Being able to produce enough units to satisfy launch demands would require one of two things. Either create the required number of units before hand (and just store them), or make sure your production facility can keep up with the inital demand.

The First idea is silly, once you have units that are sale ready, you almost always want to start shipping (storing them takes money, and the only reason nto to ship is if you could drive up demand high enough to counter balance that cost, something that is unlikely, especialy if you are not going to jack the price artaficaly).

The Second is also silly, though slightly less obviously so. If you production system can actualy churn out the number of units required, then you will end up with a production system that will go to waste once the demand dies down, and thus your inital investment required to get it up and running is really a waste.

Re:So what?

[tuffy]

Luckily, I got one at launch, but what's keeping Nintendo from meeting the demand?

Too much demand, I imagine. Nintendo's been trying to ramp up supply, but it's clear they didn't expect the Wii to catch on as quickly as it has.

Re:So what?

[DingerX]

In all fairness, he does have a point. GGP is an astroturfer, or at the very least a rabid fanboy. Just look at his previous posts.

I'm celebrating the PS3 demise too, and would love to see reliable reports about PS3s rusting on the shelves, but coming from someone with a posting record like his, the account is not trustworthy. Period.

Re:So what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, now that everyone who wants a PS3 has got one, the factory in taiwan that makes all three consoles can switch some of the production lines from PS3 to Wii to help fill demand I guess.

Re:So what?

[Leviance]

i too wish to buy a wii, but likely won't have the opportunity until next summer. that's fine though, I'm too busy with school anyway :)

Re:So what?

[apoc06]

what's most scary is:

how does his post get modded up to four? he didnt say anything that wasnt said in the five consecutive posts above his.

quite the example of the failings of /. moderation.

Poor Liddle Zonk

[Anonymous Coward]

A year wasted with daily PS3 FUD stories - all for naught.

Nothing but bundles in stock:

http://ps3finder.com/

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[Thansal]

Try again mate, from your link: Circuit City

They have been instock for nearly a week now. They DO sell bundles (including one for resistance + a controller for $10 off the price, and that is actualy a rather good bundle in my mind).

PS3 is choking up atm. If mroe games get released, it can still make a good come back, but it is down to "wait and see"

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[Anonymous Coward]

Bzzt!

Just tried to order and it is out of stock there too.

Best Buy - out of stock.
Amazon - out of stock.
Future Shop in Canada - out of stock.
Every Los Angeles retailer - out of stock.

The only place you can get a PS3 in LA is with an expensive bundle at Frys.

You lose.

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[AKAImBatman]

Nothing but bundles in stock:

I sincerely doubt that. I was just in Gamestop on Sunday (a non-shipment day) asking if they knew when they'd get more Wiis. They didn't know, but they had PS3s if I wanted one.

I've heard dozens of similar reports from other shoppers, including massive stocks of PS3s in Austin, TX stores. (Apparently, the stores were trying to sell their PS3s as bundles, but eventually had to unbundle them to start unloading the units. This left them with a rather sizable overstock.) So you might as well accept the reality, the PS3 isn't selling all that well at the moment.

That being said, the release of Final Fantasy and White Knight will start driving more sales sometime in the not-to-distant-future. So you don't have to given up hope quite yet. Wait until next Christmas to see if Sony lowers the price. If they don't, well... it will not be a good day for Sony fans. :-/

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[Thansal]

That is interesting. (assumign you are not just being a troll).

I just went through (As far as I could with out actualy giving them any info), and I can have it shipped to me, or pick it up from about 6 locations (NYC). Admitedly they ARE out of stock of Resistance:FoM apparently (I can order one bundle, but not the R:FoM. one).

I actualy just tooled around and tested out LA zips (both Los Angeles and Louisiana), and I could have it shipped to either, pick it up from 5 locations in the state, and 1 location in the city.

I call troll, have a nice day :)

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[tlhIngan]

Heck, I was in EB one day and decided to ask about the PS3. I asked to look at the box, and they got one unit out for me. The manager, inside, who was curious what was happeneing saw the PS3 being moved and said "Get those PS3s outta here!". Sorta implies that even EBGames has a ton of them taking up a good chunk of their stockroom. It's almost pointless asking if stores have them in stock as they almost invariably do.

(That say day, the same clerk yelled out "We do NOT have Wiis, if you're lining up to ask. We do NOT know when we're getting some in!").

And I suspect that Wii quantities shipped to stores probably double what PS3 quantities are shipped... they may get 18 PS3s, and 37 Wiis, and the Wiis still sell out instantly.

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[AKAImBatman]

Online stores can't keep PS3s in stock for more than a hour at a time as restock shows up. You got that you miserable fucking troll?

I see that you're afflicted with a metal disorder. No worries, mate, we believe in healing around these parts! Can I hear an AMEN out there?

<Faith-Service-Pastor>
There ain't nothin' that God can't heal, my poor man! Hallelujah! Let's all pray for this poor fellow, bring the heeeeaaaling of Jesus on his poor soul! I can feel it working now, my friend. Oh yes, Lord Jesus. Hallelujah! We'll make you right as rain, my friend.

'Cause this train is bound for glory, this train.
This train is bound for glory, this train!
This is bound for GLOR-A
Don't ride nothing but the holy.
This train is bound for glory, this train!

Can ya' feel the Holy Spirit moving my boy? Can you FEEL it??! Let's get up and DANCE boy! DANCE! Whoo!
</Faith-Service-Pastor>

Nothing like a traditional Penecostal service to get the blood pumping and the healing, goin', eh? Feel better now? :P

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[Erwos]

Neither of these two games is coming out until 2008. They're not going to be out Christmas 2007, and this has been known for quite a while.

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[Mark Maughan]

On Best Buy I get
Shipping: Sold Out
Store Pickup: Not Available
for everything including the bundles

Amazon.com will only refer me some Amazon ebay shit, they don't actually have any themself.

Walmart only has 700-900 dollar bundles in stock and they are limited one per customer. Fuck that.

I don't have those other stores, so there's no point in me trying them.

By the time games and Bluray movies come out that I want, I'm sure I be able to get one somewhere. I'm a very patient person.

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[DesertBlade]

Just because it is not available online does not mean it isn't available in stores.

I would not be surprised if Sony has made retailers to WAIT to sell the PS3 online until March to drive sales to the stores, and hopefully sell more games, controllers, etc. I have only see bundles being sold online.

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[Mark Maughan]

It does for BestBuy

Store Pickup: Not Available

I've bought stuff from them before, the website knows how much inventory each store has in stock.

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[Mark Maughan]

Out of stock
Notify me when available

is all I get for the 10 Circuit City's near me.

20724 if you want to try

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[DesertBlade]

Did you read my post?

Sony may be preventing stores from listing PS3s on websites unless they are in bundles.

Called my local Best Buy and they have them is stock. Don't believe me?
Clackamas OR (Store 452)
9630 Se 82nd Ave
Portland, OR 97266
Phone: 503-777-1200

And the site said they were out of stock. LIERS!

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[DesertBlade]

Check Circuit City. They have them online and in store pick up. Depends where you live. If I was running a site that checked store inventory I would drop items off the list if they fell below 10. That way it would prevent people from purchasing online and being out in the store.

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[Anonymous Coward]

I went to the mall yesterday, first time in over a year. I was walking with a friend as we passed Gamestop. I asked if she wanted to see me be really stupid and go in and ask if they had any PS3's or Wii's in stock. She had no clue as to what I was talking about, so we just walked on past. After she took off I went back and looked around Gamestop. They had a nice big sign up that stated "PS3's in stock now". I did not see anything regarding the Wii being in stock. They had quite a few XBox circles.

The little thing I did happen to notice was that people were playing the PS3 demo with about half a dozen people standing around watching them. No one was playing the 360 or Wii demo units. Of course the PS3 had a basketball game on it. I will say the colors were bright and vibrant and the reflectivity of the floor was nice. But I'm sure much of that has been around for awhile. I have not played a sports game on a console in well over four years.

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[Mark Maughan]

Sony may be preventing stores from listing PS3s on websites unless they are in bundles.

Sony has persuaded BestBuy to not sell me a PS3 console or bundle online and to lie to me and tell that they have no consoles or bundles at the physical store so that ... I will be more likely to by a console or bundle at a store other than BestBuy? Uh, ok.

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[AKAImBatman]

Just an FYI, your local Gamestop may have the stupidest reason for people playing only the PS3. At the Gamestop I went to, everyone was playing the XBox 360. However, it wasn't because the system was so popular. It was because the PS3 was turned off and the Wiimote batteries were dead.

As I said, the stupidest reasons.

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[Thansal]

well, true, the 10 closest stores do not have it. However if you are willing to make a 2hr (1hr 48min by google maps) drive you can go pick one up. Or you can just have one shipped to your house.

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[DesertBlade]

I think I just proved that is happening. Maybe Sony gave best buy more PS3s if they don't sell them on their webiste. Best Buy could have thought, "Hell they will fly off the shelves like hot cakes, anyways." Maybe Best Buy is not listing them on their site because it is below some magical 'safe' number. Try calling your store, and tell me if they are out.

Re:Poor Liddle Zonk

[cafeman]

It isn't selling faster than the PS2. At least, not according to Sony's official figures. By this long after launch, Sony had shipped (and sold) around 2m units of the Playstation 2. They've only shipped 1.2 million units of the Playstation 3.

ATTN: Slashdot Editors

[skymt]

Please stop reporting on the numbers that analysts pull out of their hats. It's not news, it's a guess. /dev/random would be just as good as these clowns at predicting sales numbers.

Re:ATTN: Slashdot Editors

[techpawn]

Oh! Hats! and here I thought those guys stored their numbers elseware...

Re:ATTN: Slashdot Editors

[Anonymous Coward]

The only analyst numbers in the article are Nomura's expectations that Sony will only ship 4.5M units. Everything else is hard fact - Sony says it shipped 2M units, NPD says that only XYZ units sold.

The presence of the word 'analyst' does not immediately invalidate the entire story.

Re:ATTN: Slashdot Editors

[ivan256]

There's a good reason that "analysts" starts with "anal".

Shipping more?

[dreemernj]

The mountain of 60 PS3's piled up inside the front doors of the local Best Buy for the past week tells me that shipping them should not be as high a priority as giving people a reason to buy them.

Re:Shipping more?

[nonsequitor]

*lowers voice to whisper* Those are display boxes, they don't actually have a console inside of them.

Re:Shipping more?

[YU Nicks NE Way]

Bingo! Give the man a carrot!

That's called an "in-store display".

Re:Shipping more?

[spectecjr]

uh... yes they do... you can pick one up and go straight to the checkout with it... trust me...

Re:Shipping more?

[poot_rootbeer]

Those are display boxes, they don't actually have a console inside of them.

While obviously I don't expect them to take one of the empty boxes off the pyramid every time a customer purchases a PS3, I would imagine that retailers would want to keep the number of boxes on display pretty close to the number of units actually available for purchase.

The salesperson isn't going to enjoy being in a position where he has to tell an expectant customer "Sorry, we are sold out of those, I know it looks like there's a stack of 20 of them right there but those are just fakes for show." It doesn't promote customer trust.

Re:Shipping more?

[dreemernj]

Actually, they are nice and heavy, sealed, and have an attendant sitting next to them. When people want a PS3 they take them from the stack. At least you only whispered, lol. That would have been embarassing to shout.

Re:Shipping more?

[YU Nicks NE Way]

None of which shows that there's actually a system in them, or even associated with them.

Re:Shipping more?

[Thrakkerzog]

Try picking one up. Unless they load them with bricks, they are the actual product.

9 weeks

[thatguywhoiam]

We are 9 weeks from the launch. Some perspective is needed.

Re:9 weeks

[nick_davison]

I hear things get significantly hotter in another 1/2 week. Patience my man, patience.

Good bye, Sony

[MikeRT]

All I can say is, how does Sega's revenge for what you did to the Dreamcast feel? This time, two much better consoles have firmly kicked Sony where it hurts. We'll know that Sony is finally done for when Final Fantasy XIII is cross-platform.

Re:Good bye, Sony

[mgblst]

Yes, Segas two pronged attack of the 360 and the Wii seems to be having a great effect. It was very clever of the Sega to break up into two companies, Microsoft and Nintendo.

Heh, I loved the dreamcast as well, but lets not get away with ourselves here.

Re:Good bye, Sony

[smash]

Might i point out that my dreamcast (that I actually purchased *after* my PS2) is broken. My PS2 is not.

Doomcasting?

[2008]

That sounds awesome. What level do I have to be to cast that spell?

Re:Doomcasting?

[Kjella]

That sounds awesome. What level do I have to be to cast that spell?

Level 14 Market Analyst
+ Bonus to dexterity for rapidly being able to shift your position
+ Bonus to constitution for spouting bullshit all day
+ Bonus to charisma for being a sweet talker. Extra bonus for tech mags
- Penalty to strength since you just talk, you don't do anything
- You're an insult to intelligence and wisdom

Still want to play?

Prize For Best Made Up 'PS3 On Shelves' Story

[Anonymous Coward]

Ten bucks off your next Xbox 360 defective unit replacement fee for the Xbot with the best and most inventive 'I saw unsold PS3s' story!

Come on, don't just make it booring, put some effort into the stories guys.

Here's some examples:

1) Describe how the units were dusty - amateur colour but still better than the average PS3 on shelves troll

2) The 'overheard' gamer/family colour to your stories where you try to work your FUD into a touching and ominous for Sony narrative

3) The 'sales clerk report' colour where you talk about how only one unit has been sold since Christmas

Those are just for starters, you can do better! Don't be average with your PS3 trolls!

Re:Prize For Best Made Up 'PS3 On Shelves' Story

[greenrom]

Ten bucks off your next Xbox 360 defective unit replacement fee for the Xbot with the best and most inventive 'I saw unsold PS3s' story!

You might want to adjust your prize. Right now the defective unit replacement fee is $0. I bought a 360 at launch in November 2005. I think it was supposed to have a 90 day warranty. Last week mine started locking up after a few minutes of playing it. I think a fan quit. Anyway, I called Microsoft and they're replacing it for free even though it's over a year old. The phone rep said that they're currently treating all 360 units as if they were under warranty no matter when the unit was purchased. Maybe they have a design defect. Maybe they're just trying to compete with better customer service. Either way, I was happy.

I don't have a good "PS3 sitting on shelves" story, because I haven't seen any so I guess I wouldn't win the prize anyway. There really haven't been enough PS3s shipped to gauge demand. I don't think the PS3 will be the next Dreamcast. Even if there isn't enough demand at the current pricing levels, Sony will probably drop the price after doing some cost reductions. Still, I don't expect PS3 to reach the same marketshare as PS2. PS2's dominance of the market would be hard for any console to top.

Re:Prize For Best Made Up 'PS3 On Shelves' Story

[UbuntuDupe]

I have a better idea. How about someone post one of these:

-A picture of an unsold Wii in a store.
-A Wii ebay auction (not buy-it-now, an auction) ending at or below retail.
-A PS3 ebay auction WITH ACTUAL BIDS ending above retail.

Re:Prize For Best Made Up 'PS3 On Shelves' Story

[iainl]

Personally, I think these stories of Sony being able to meet demand are great. Maybe they'll actually get a few over here to the UK at some point in the future.

Re:Prize For Best Made Up 'PS3 On Shelves' Story

[Thansal]

heh, It is nice to see some of our friends in the UK still have a sense of humour. Actualy gettign a console at or around release?
hahaha, I laugh!

Gettign games at or around launch?
hahaha, I laugh!

(please ignore that the Wii was released around the world with in a few weeks, and that those damn dirty apes in the UK already have Wii Play, where us poor slobs in the USA still don't)

Re:Prize For Best Made Up 'PS3 On Shelves' Story

[iainl]

My current bugbear with that one is that all of my US mates have got a serious envy for the fact that there's a HD-DVD copy of Harry Potter & The Goblet Of Fire on the shelf here, while I'm rather more concerned with the fact that at least they have machines that would play it; the XBox 360's add-on drive is like hen's teeth in the UK.

Re:Prize For Best Made Up 'PS3 On Shelves' Story

[dagamer34]

Never refer to the PS3 as the "next Dreamcast". The Dreamcast was amazing system that was killed from hype of ANOTHER console, it itself did not perform pitifully. If you want a better analogy, refer to the PS3 as the next 3D0. Price fits about the same too.

Re:Prize For Best Made Up 'PS3 On Shelves' Story

[KDR_11k]

Pick your favourite. If my phone's camera worked I could have given you a picture of three unsold Wiis one week after launch. Can't give you any PS3 auctions though, that thing isn't even released here.

Re:Prize For Best Made Up 'PS3 On Shelves' Story

[UbuntuDupe]

I believe I asked for an auction ending below retail, not a list of the auctions in progress.

Sigh...

Let me try this again:

Ich glaube, ich habe eine erledigte Auktion geboten, nicht einen Zettel von jetztigen Auktionen.

Re:Prize For Best Made Up 'PS3 On Shelves' Story

[KDR_11k]

It won't display them unless you get an account.

Surprise Surprise!

[adamstew]

Surprise Surprise! They aren't selling any consoles that are too expensive for people to be able to afford!

and they wonder why the Wii (which is twice as fun and half the price) is kicking their asses. Or why the 360, which is just as much fun and still almost 1/2 the price, is kicking their asses.

People just aren't convinced to buy in to their blueray premium.

The Wii has better game play...especially for beginners. And the 360 blows anything out of the water for online play.

Sony is Japanese for Evil.

Re:Surprise Surprise!

[Anonymous Coward]

Fun is subjective. Your a douche!!

Re:Surprise Surprise!

[adamstew]

You are right, fun is subjective. But it is also possible to generalize it as well: ex: Going to an amusement park is fun! Getting stabbed in the eye is not fun. Sure...you will find (very) few people who enjoy getting stabbed in the eye...but in general, it's not fun. Same with an amusement park...you will find some people who don't find them fun. But in general...most people enjoy an amusement park, and most people don't enjoy getting stabbed in the eye. Same with the Wii and PS3. Not to say that the PS3 isn't fun...Most people just haven't found it $500 worth of fun. And I do believe it is safe to say that most people, especially your average Joe, would consider the Wii to be more fun to play than the PS3. Combine the fact that most people find the Wii more fun to play, with it being less than 1/2 the price of the PS3, and the games are cheaper...it's a no brainer for most.

Dead hengest

[Merkwurdigeliebe]

How many times is this hengest going to be beaten to death again?

/. should just put up a game consoles shipped:/sold: ticker at the top. No need for daily update-fodder-cum-articles

Here we go again

[Itchyeyes]

I'm amazed at how people still don't understand the concept of "shipped" units and how it pertains to sold. The vast majority of units sold will be sold through retailers using something called just in time inventory. They monitor how much of a product they have and how fast it is being sold and and use that to calculate when they will need to order more of a product and how much of it to order. If consoles are sitting on shelves then retailers aren't ordering any more from manufacturers. There is a small amount of lag there, but over the long term the method is plenty accurate (notice how nobody is comparing shipped PS2 units to sold PS2 units even though there are probably ten times more PS2's than PS3's sitting on shelves). The margin of error is negligible.

For console manufacturers shipped is sold. Since they have no control over the retail chain, their most accurate measurement of how consoles are selling is how many they are selling to retailers. This endless discussion over shipped vs sold is just plain ignorant. It's a perfectly acceptable method of tracking your inventory.

Re:Here we go again

[grogdamighty]

And your post, if not ignorant, is at least as naive.

While shipped==sold in the longterm, this is not necessarily true in the short-term. What we have here is the rather unique situation of a console launch, where console makers produce as much as they can and retailers get as much as they can to sell. At this point, made==shipped. On the other hand, if shipped != sold (or close to it) in this time period, it becomes apparent that demand is not as high as it should be - which is what is happening right now. Considering their original estimates of shipping 6 million by March assumed (as Kutaragi said) that 5 million people would buy the PS3 even if they didn't make any games for the system, it is fairly clear that a low demand (as seen in low sales) now will equate to an eventual lower shipping rate (with a lag between the launch and when retailers realize they're not selling out their whole stock).

Re:Here we go again

[UbuntuDupe]

Actually, predicting how much of an initial shipment of a new product will sell, has a huge margin of error. If you know how to predict this number, people will pave you a road of gold if you tell them.

It's true that the method may be accurate in the long term ... but we're not in the long term yet, hence the dissatisfaction with "shipped" as opposed to "sold".

Re:Here we go again

[CashCarSTAR]

Actually, for Sony, shipped is when it leaves their factory. For "Just in time" shipping, this could result in a possible high number of "shipped" (by their terms" units, that may not get to stores for some time, because they're being held in a warehouse or something.

Re:Here we go again

[bigforearms]

I think yoiu don't understand what Just In Time inventory systems are. A JIT system involves receiving inventory only when you need it to fill orders and maintaining low-no stock levels. Dell does this by requiring suppliers to maintain stocks nearby that they can deliver multiple times PER DAY. Dell just orders when they have orders to fill.

Best Buy, Gamestop, et al. are not on a JIT system. They get shipments once a week usually. Sure, they try not to order more than what they're going to sell that week, but that's just the traditional inventory system, not JIT.

Playstation 3s sold quickly from the first shipment. These stores expected them to sell like hotcakes on subsequent orders, so they ordered a bunch. At least near me, I can go into a Best Buy and see a huge stack of them just sitting there. And Gamestop is having to resort to over-generous trade-in on PS2s to sell PS3s already.

So yeah, I'd say, especially under these circumstances, that shipped units are not a good predictor of sold units.

Re:Here we go again

[Itchyeyes]

I don't think that that lag is as long as you think it is. Most large scale retailers, like Best Buy and Walmart, have very sophisticated inventory systems in place. Millions and millions of dollars have been put into these systems to make sure that they can react as quickly as possible to market demands. Also, this is a time of year when retailers are trying to reduce inventory after the holiday glut. We're not going to be seeing any mountains of PS3's, like we did with the 360 in December, even if the supplies and demand are there. At any one point there will probably be a couple hundred thousand PS3's drifting through the retail chain. This may sound like a lot, but even at the analysts prediction of 4.5 million by the end of March, that's only a 4% margin of error.

What's more, the expectation that console manufacturers state units sold by retailers is ridiculous. As I stated before, the manufacturers have no control over the retail chain and they have no access to these numbers other than through third parties. It would be ridiculous for them to use monthly estimates (and they are estimates) from third party groups, like NPD, rather than their own internal numbers, which are up to the minute and exact.

While the difference between shipped and sold is apparently crucial immediately after a launch for all the fanboys wanting to push their system, in the big picture it is practically meaningless.

Re:Here we go again

[LordVader717]

Well, I think you will agree with me that at least at the beginning of the consoles sales, numbers shipped are totally useless.

Next, even if the numbers are well into the systems lifetime, they're just a stupid and erroneous number, that just shows they either want to maximise the number they can boast about, or a really that out of touch with the consumer

Re:Here we go again

[Kris_J]

Let's say you initially got two units and sold both of them instantly. How can you tell how more units are likely to sell? You can't. So you guess, and you order 30. They arrive and two more sell. Now your inventory system can kick in and tell you not to bother ordering anymore.

Shipped this early = anticipated demand. Only sold = sold.

PS3 is an excellent console

[nbahi15]

I don't think having consoles on the shelves is a meaningful judge of anything. The PS3 costs twice what a Wii does, it has very few games right now, and Sony has gotten itself together on the manufacturing front.

I have the Wii and the PS3. I downloaded the Gran Turismo HD demo and it is amazing. I sometimes get distracted by the spectators. The PS3 has already forced me to buy an HD TV, and about 4 Blu-Ray titles. Blu-ray movies are lovely.

The Wii is a nice console, but frankly I find Zelda monotonous. I hope they come out with a Pikmin game for the Wii. The thing I use the Wii the most for is the weather. The Wiimote is interesting technology but I don't think they will have a monopoly on the design/usage of a pointing wand for very long.

So it is going to be a little hard to tell who is winning at this point. Really we should suspend all discussions of winning and losing for a year. Especially considering Sony's play in the console market is really long-term and given the PS2 was the number one selling console over Christmas, my guess is the game is far from over.

Re:PS3 is an excellent console

[poot_rootbeer]

The Wiimote is interesting technology but I don't think they will have a monopoly on the design/usage of a pointing wand for very long.

Given the number of patents Nintendo holds on the technologies and design elements of the Wii Remote, it could very well be a while before any other console has a controller that can match it.

And even if there eventually is one, I don't know that the first-to-market phenomenon could be overcome. Today, if a publisher wants to build a game around touchscreen input, they're going to target it to the DS. If they want a game focused on spatial control, it's going to be a Wii title. I don't know what kinds of incentive the competition is going to be able to offer publishers to get them to switch away from Nintendo for those types of titles.

Re:PS3 is an excellent console

[dagamer34]

It's been 2 months after the console was launched. Regardless, rabid fanboys should be hounding stores looking for a unit to purchase. Of all the console launches I've seen in the past 10 years, never has a system been this widely available so quickly.

Could it be price? Most definitely. But you can't use that as a scapegoat to say, "Oh, because it's expensive, that's why it's not selling". That's the very REASON why it's not selling: it costs too much!

Games?

[ThePhilips]

What about games?

What a Slashdotters AND happy owners ("happy" is requirement) of PS3 can say about games? What can you recommend to old fan of Tetris and Nethack.

For fun I have bought Wii - first console of PC casual gamer - but now I want more visual dense experience, and PS3/Xbox360 looks to me interesting. I do not like complicated games - like Mario - which might require full day of training just for one particular level. What I need - is a games for a evening, something I can play for one hour or so at time and make some progress.

Hm. Well, PS2 recommendation are also welcome.

Re:Games?

[Duds]

Ridge Racer 6 on 360 (or it's almost identical but uglier cousin RR7 on PS3) would be ideal, the entire world tour is a "map" of races. You could attempt and complete 1 at a time in about 10 mins (assuming you pass) and make "Some progress".

Amped 3 on 360 is another one where you can pick and choose your challenges for the hour you want to play.

Tomb Raider Legend is a short (but also cheap) game but your hour will allow you to complete most of the levels and you can save if you fail, either way you've made some progress.

Re:Games?

[Erwos]

I've heard that Viva Pinata for the 360 is beautiful, addictive, and has a relatively shallow learning curve.

Also, Guitar Hero II for the PS2 is like crack cocaine.

Re:Games?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're the first person I've ever heard referring to Mario as "complicated". I will admit that it has gotten more involved and complex with the transition into 3D, but now the game itself tends to be broken up in such a way that you can accomplish small goals in ten minutes or less. That's why there are 120 stars in SM64, and 120 Shine Sprites and all those blue coins in Super Mario Sunshine. You get one, you save, you're done if you want. No level in that game takes more than ten minutes to play unless you get into the die-restart cycle.

And those die-restart levels and the more involved ones (Super Mario Sunshine's "Yoshi's Fruit Adventure", I'm looking at you...) don't have to be completed. You can finish the game without them. It's just more challenge levels for completionists.

Re:Games?

[iainl]

I only get to play in bursts of an hour or so, too. Games I've been playing a lot of on the 360 are mainly Project Gotham Racing 3 (none of the races are longer than about 10 minutes or so), Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved (old-school 2D shmup with fancy neon vectors, gets insanely hectic after about two minutes) and Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfare (sensibly placed autosave points mean you can genuinely get somewhere in 20 minutes play, and the tactical pace means you don't need to be twitch genius on the aiming).

If you like your puzzle games, Hexic (from the guy who invented Tetris) is pretty damn good, but liable to go on a bit in the main mode. There are harder ones for when you don't have time, though. Zuma is also far better on the analogue pad than the PC's mouse controls, for my money, and allows you to save your position mid-game.

Re:Games?

[Zelos]

A day for a level in Mario? Perhaps if you're blind and playing by audio description, otherwise I'd say more like 10-30 minutes per level.

Re:Games?

[k_187]

Yes, crack cocaine that leads to painful cramps in your hands.

Re:Games?

[deathsquirrel]

Viva Pinata is an evil, time-sucking beast. I love it though it's darn hard to shut that garden down at the end of a game session!

Re:Games?

[ThePhilips]

You're the first person I've ever heard referring to Mario as "complicated".

I have New Mario on DS and it is unplayable. Even excluding the "portable" aspect of DS, Mario requires some good concentration - something I lack after 8-9 hours in office. Needless to say, playing Mario while outside is impossible due to all distractions around. And I have heard from profis that DS version is easier than GameCube one. Well, Okay, I always lack concentration - but somehow it affects Mario worst. (And DS version doesn't let you save when you want.)

Probably it is good for kids who seem to have abundance of energy always.

Re:Games?

[ElleyKitten]

DS version doesn't let you save when you want.

The DS version saves whenever you do anything important, like get a star, open a new level, etc. It can't save within levels, but they're not that long so it doesn't take much time to get back where ever you got stuck.

As far as simple games, if Mario is complicated then I'd go with Wario Ware and Super Swing Golf and other simple looking Wii games. I can't think of a Playstation or Xbox game that is less complicated than Mario.

Re:Games?

[Emetophobe]

I do not like complicated games - like Mario - which might require full day of training just for one particular level

Sorry, but I almost pissed my pants trying to hold in the laughter... You honestly find Mario complicated?

What I need - is a games for a evening, something I can play for one hour or so at time and make some progress.

May I suggest Minesweeper or Solitaire? Or perhaps a challenging game of War or Go Fish.

(Sorry, but calling Mario a complicated game is extremely sad, negative modding be damned!)

Re:Games?

[ThePhilips]

Thanks. I'll check them.

Quake/Doom/HL/NWN - somehow are Ok with me. I need few seconds to come up with strategy to kill a monster in NWN. I need couple of minutes to come to normal game speed of Quake/Doom to never actually stop running and killing off monsters. But Mario (and some platformers I have seen on Sega before) are really somehow "complicated" for me: you just hit particular place where you constantly die and game often ends there for me. Wasting another week to reach the place again? To die unconditionally again? Not for me. And that's problem normally with games ported from consoles - I played some PC platformers in past and they were Ok. (e.g Prehistoric(?) I/II)

Most hated feature that one cannot adjust complexity level in such games. Ironically, most games which allow to control complexity level are Ok too - even on normal/hard setting. Most of the time I cannot force my fingers to memorize some 6/8/more key combo (series of jumps/waits/movements) to pass particular place. I can conclude that console platformers are just not for me. Or am I not for platformers.

Re:Games?

[ThePhilips]

So you find dying for slipped finger and then being forced to restart from beginning ... easy? Find you that entertaining? Me not. Day twisting fingers to pull out combo of 8 jumps thru three elevators and six monsters - for the opportunity lasts only few seconds? Not for me. Not even close to what I call "easy" and "entertaining".

Humor me. Or try to challenge me - no, not in Mario - e.g. in Quake3/Doom3. Exploding bodies and splashing blood? That's easy. ;)

P.S. Well. Probably I just tried harder than needed game which is not for me.

Fake boxes

[Anonymous Coward]

That's just box filler, a store only ever has a few in stock at any time to minimize inventory, but they pile up sampler boxes to induce the buying effect.

Anything above $50 that isn't on a special discount is done like this. So a product in 40,000 stores that's expected to sell 4 million in the first year, only sells one every 3 days on average. Since they get weekly shipments, they only carry between 1 and 10 in stock depending on store size. But they want the display to look impressive, even if they only have 1 in stock.

Split screen

[tepples]

FPS's still, and likely never will, be that big a market segment on most consoles. Yes, controls have gotten better, but they still utterly suck compared to the control you get on a PC.

O-wiily? (I now see why you wrote "most".)

For some reason, the 360 has carved out a niche with FPS's and found a solid group of gamers that seem to enjoy FPS's on a console quite a bit. Couldn't tell you why

Because unlike the PC, the Xbox and Xbox 360 have titles that use split-screen mode, which means you need only one system and TV, not four systems and TVs.

Re:Split screen

[GeckoX]

Thanks for proving my point :)

That has nothing to do with the popularity of FPS's on consoles. Split screen is a predominant feature of console games in general.

Re:Split screen

[KDR_11k]

However, with the UT series the mods are a major part of the value of the game so missing out on those is a huge drawback.

Sega games on Xbox and GameCube

[tepples]

Segas two pronged attack of the 360 and the Wii seems to be having a great effect. It was very clever of the Sega to break up into two companies, Microsoft and Nintendo.

You attempt sarcasm. But Sega has in fact broke up its efforts and developed several games for Xbox and GameCube, and I imagine that Sega's Wiimote-controlled exclusive titles will draw money away from titles for Sony's platform.

Re:Sega games on Xbox and GameCube

[apoc06]

you guys talk as though sega has not developed titles for the PS3 as well. currently i know that full auto2 is exclusive to sony platforms, and the ps3 versions of multi-platformers: virtua tennis, sonic and virtua fighter are all right around the corner from release.

also in this upcoming year, sega has more titles planned for release on the "failing" psp than any other platform.

Hi-larious

[British]

It seemed only like 2 months ago people were camping overnight and threatening each others lives for a PS3.

And now they are gathering dust on sales shelves.

You gotta admit, this is funny. Once again, the stories about the Playstation 3 have entertained me more than the console itself, for much less than $600.

I'll be replacing my entertainment derived from the (nonexistant) Phantom console and my Gizmondo portable for the PS3. C'mon Sony, make some more silly PR statements like "The 360 costs too much!" or something like the former Iraqi information minister would say.

Baghdad Bob? Is that you?

[Chibi Merrow]

So you've added Slashdot comments to your vast repitoire? Sony and SCO could probably really use you as a PR rep now.

They missed the important holiday season.

[vakuona]

That is why you are likely to see lots of inventory. I for one would love to get my hands on the PS3, and I shall, but right now I do not have the cash. Had it been available before Christmas, I would probably have rearranged my spending to be able to get one. I shall get one this year.

I am not much of a Sony fan, but I like their console. I like the fact that they have put that much effort into making the best all round console. Sales shall pick up, no doubt, especially with the inevitable price drops. The PS2 still sold strongly, and was the best seller over the holiday season. Next season, Sony won't be competing against itself, and then we will see the true picture. The lack of the library was a big issue for Sony, but next season, their library will be much more comprehensive.

I shall not be getting the gimmicky Wii, or the Xbox. I prefer the PS3 to the Xbox, and like the fact that I can also install Linux on it. Beat that Xbox. The Wii will be killed by its longevity, or rather lack of (IMO). Sony's PS2 has had extremely good legs, and has been the best selling console, well, since the Dreamcast launch. It shall pass the baton to the PS3. At least that is my prediction.

Re:They missed the important holiday season.

[magicchex]

I concur.

Re:PS3 is an excellent console?

[Anonymous Coward]

Especially considering Sony's play in the console market is really long-term... What's with this line? Sony's marketing started spouting it and now I hear people announce it as a feature of the console.

Does it imply that Nintendo's and Microsoft's "plays" are not also long term?
In that case, what does "long team play" even mean?

Do you think it means that Sony will not release another console in ~5 years?
Do you think that it means the PS3 will be competitive (technology-wise) with the 8th generation consoles released at that time?
If so, was that assumption a factor for your decision purchase the PS3?

If you're answer to those all last 3 questions is "No", then why did you bring it up?

D.

Re:Hi-larious. More Sony PR statements....

[trdrstv]

C'mon Sony, make some more silly PR statements like "The 360 costs too much!"

They already did. One of Sony's execs (of austrailia) Said the Wii was a 'bit pricey'.

Riiiiiight

[DownTownMT]

Care to explain why Best Buy states they dont have any to even purchase on-line?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?navLevel=5 &type=category&navHistory=cat00000%2Bcat02000%2Bca t02119%2Bpcmcat91400050028&id=pcmcat104100050000 I am a big fan of Nintendo's viral marking though..

Re:Riiiiiight

[DownTownMT]

Wow...marked as Troll, when i respond with an informative post even!

Re:PS3 is an excellent console?

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't complicated. The PS2 and PS1 were much longer term and thus had better software than Nintendo or Microsoft.

So yeah, it does play into my decision to buy a system, but also plays into a discussion of why Sony is currently the leader in console sales and profits, far surpassing Microsoft and Nintendo combined. Not because they won't release a PS4 within 5 years... but they'll probably be supporting the PS3 with good releases for much longer than that.

The PS2 is the best system out there today. The XBOX360 can't touch it for gameplay, the Wii can't touch it for originality. A good game is more than a neat controller or a big processor. Just as the PSone sold millions of systems after the PS2 had it's historically awful launch, Sony is doing raelly well inspite of an expensive and difficult to control system.

Now, if you don't mind Micosoft abandoning your system in two years, go right ahead and buy one. If you prefer Nintendo nwo that they are the underdog and less prone to be monopolistic or abusive to publishers, I guess that's your business. If you're like most folks out there, you'll buy a PS2 or keep stocking new software for your old one and get a PS3 when the price is right. Which just happens to be the most profitable course for Sony. After all, they make a lot more profit on a PS2 than a PS3 these days. Weird how this launch just happens to fit the idal profit dynamic for Sony... almost as if they planned it.

When the time comes to make PS3 the console leader, it won't matter which blog or slashdot editor is bribed or what processor is in what system. Either Sony will have the best library or they will fail. As usual people think nintendo will somehow have ther best games. They never have int he past 15 years, so I don't see why that would change (but if it doesn they deserve to lead the market)

Re:BFD or Why the Wii has Won

[WillAffleckUW]

I think you're misunderestimating how long it takes to get through the Wii's Zelda, or how much fun can be had from that rabbits game, or the bundled sports title. Sure, I'd like an MMO, but it's not like I'm spending all my Wii time playing GC games, or that I've downloaded even a single virtual console title.

Good point. I still haven't finished playing any of the titles - even picked up a copy of Sims 2: Pets for the Gamecube (man it loads fast on the Wii).

But, I should say, it's possible some people - even though the Wiis are flying off the shelves even today - may not have been able to reset their wireless to broadcast on channel 1 or 11 and still can't download on channel 6.

That said, it's noticeable that the demand for PS3s has dropped in both Japan and the US. Does not bode well.

Sigh. Move on, nothing to see

[SpeedyRich]

More Zonk fanboy flamebait

MOD PARENT UP

[Trogre]

About time people around here got some perspective.

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