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The Germs' Drummer Arrested For Carrying Soap
dwrugh writes "The drummer for the seminal punk band The Germs, Don Bolles, was arrested in Orange County because a field-test kit indicated his bottle of Dr. Bronner's soap contained GHB, the date-rape drug. (Here is an interview with Bolles.) Using the same test kit, available on the web for $20 for a pack of 10, according to Bolles' attorney on NBC this morning, other soaps tested positive for GHB. But of course since it's just soap, when you test it in a real crime lab it comes back negative. Makes you wonder what other common household products also test positive, and how many others have been arrested based on faulty test kits who didn't have the resources to defend themselves."
The Germs. Heh. Haven't listened to them since high school. You can only play G.I. (their only good album) so many times until the lead singer's grating voice just becomes completely unbearable. Great music though.
... does anyone else find today's breed to pseudo-punk-acting bands just too funny for words? I don't follow modern music too much but have seen some music videos here and there and it cracks me up how all these new bands play this completely cheesepuff light rock ballad crap and have faux-hawks and punk-ish clothing and slam around like they're belting out hardcore. It's just so silly to see a bunch of guys jumping around acting like they're so tough and like the music is so raw all the while playing Justin Timberlake-esque fluff. I just couldn't do that with a straight face, I wonder how they manage it.
...
On a tangent only marginally related to the topic
The Germs were the REAL DEAL, the lead singer would spread peanut butter on his naked chest while cutting himself with a broken bottle on stage. They didn't just looked the part, they sounded the part too, with some of the rawest late-70's-hardcore-punk around.
Now to the topic at hand - so what. Not every test is 100% reliable. False positives exist. This is a headline story for what reason exactly?
And for the obligitary Slashdot tongue-in-cheek comment: I don't see how having GHB in soap is helping anyone. If you've already convinced your date to take a shower with you the GHB is kind of redundant
Slashdot has turned into Fark....
Best. Headline. Ever...
A very slippery situation. :)
Dropping the soap
This is a borderline Slashdot story anyway, but why is it in the IT section where it clearly does not belong? Science? Maybe. IT? No.
Don't drop the soap!
As the original poster says, the sample is sent off to a proper lab for testing. Cheapo field test kits don't go to court, so the original poster's comment about people having resources to defend themselves is inaccurate.
Editors, I wish you'd take five seconds to review what you are putting up. TFA is from April 11 (that's eleven days ago), and since then he has been released. A discussion of the faultiness of field testing methods might be in order but you need to properly set the stage for said discussion, otherwise it gets derailed when people get alarmed about the fact that somebody is sitting in jail right now for a mistake and then somebody (in this case me) has to come and point out that the whole thing has actually been resolved.
audioLibre - freedom of music
So does this mean in Fight Club when they used soap for explosives that the extraction process may have yielded some GHB as well. I wonder what they would have done with that. Wow, soap is just useful for all kinds of things (explosives, smuggling, GHB, cleaning yourself in the shower). Maybe one day we will look back on these hundreds of years of history as the soap era.
What's this "soap" thing you're talking about?
This guy's the limit!
Are you sure its not pronounced "Dr. Boner's?"
I mean, isn't that what GHB is used for
That must be great publicity. This incident will give that brand a reputation as a true, non-failing, anti-Germ soap.
Give Kashyyyk back to the Wookies
Field kits have to be cheap. You need a fair lot of them. And they're prone to false positives because governments usually want to err on the wrong side (i.e. it's better to have innocent people jailed than having a guilty one run free).
As long as the labs still use more reliable testing methods, it can at least be cleaned up later. I just hope this doesn't change at least.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
When I was in high school, I would have poppy seed bagels for breakfast every morning. When I turned 16 and started applying for jobs, I failed a few drug test even though I had never done any illegal drug. It caused a lot of stress in my family and was quite embarrassing. Even though my parents believed me, I could always sense it nagged them in the back of their minds. A few months ago I saw an episode of myth busters which proved having just one poppy seed bagel can cause you to fail a drug test. I downloaded the show and sent the DVD to my parents to clear my name.
This explains why my nympho girlfriend has 5 billion bottles of soap in her bathroom.
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
I guess that's for the times when Axe brand shower gel and body spray aren't enough.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 is the magic number.
Someone named Dr. Bonner makes soap that contains a date-rape drug? Hilarious I thought, until i read the article.
The officer got permission to search the vehicle and a field test on a bottle of Dr. Bronner's Magic Soap showed positive for GHB, Sailor said.The punk group was formed in Los Angeles in the late 1970s and is credited with popularizing mohawks.
Whoa, whoa, WHOA! B.A. Baracus popularized mohawks, FOOL! That and welding.
I guess I missed the joke here. Was it the part about rape or the part about being falsely accused that was supposed to make me chuckle?
I think he was arrested for the attempted murder of his bandmates instead. I mean, he was carrying soap right?
Can you add this one too?
the mainstream media just can't comprehend the fact that he "really" loves his soap ^_~.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
This isn't exactly shocking for a county where our local Government, won't issue ID cards for those who have been prescribed medical marijuana. This county loves to be the uptight puritan neighbor to Los Angeles. The state says its okay, but the county is claiming that since the federal government says no, they can't risk getting sued. States rights? Ha. This county is known for its unbelievable government and law enforcement. Recently an inmate was killed in the county jail after the staff told other inmates that he was a suspected child predator. The Sheriffs department insists they did no wrong in this, and there pat answer is more or less, "Who cares, he was a child predator?" and "You can't listen to criminals to tell you the truth, they're people who do things that are wrong anyway." All local press fails to point out that he was never even convicted.
I don't mind a conservative government, and all, but here it's like being conservative just for the sake of being conservative, instead of any real reason behind the decisions of the local government. Law enforcement in Orange county seems to me, to serve mostly to harass the public, in hopes of catching some illegal immigrants along the way.
So yeah, this really isn't surprising.
P.S. In OC, if it had been a 30 y/o MILF in an SUV, she could have had the soap, had it tested positive for GHB, heck she probably could have had pure GHB and pot in the car, and still been able to drive off.
Wouldn't the soap make them The Germless?
http://twitter.com/OLDTELEGRAM
But of course since it's just soap, when you test it in a real crime lab it comes back negative. ...
how many others have been arrested based on faulty test kits who didn't have the resources to defend themselves.
You mean how many couldn't defend themselves before the lab cleared them?
whenever i use an acronym, unless its RIAA or MPAA, i try to define what the acronym is either directly or through context.
or maybe i've been under a rock.. but what is a MILF?
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
How is this story related to IT? "IT: The Germs' Drummer Arrested For Carrying Soap" ... Did I miss something?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Who are they, are they opening for Anthrax? This must be Department of Homeland Security's worst nightmare.
Basically, Dr. Bronner's is the Time Cube of soaps.
k.
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
And definitely not a nympho girlfriend!
Just who the fuck did you think you were going to fool, besides yourself?
Mainstream media is laughable, really. Maybe the little gem at the end is why the story was posted in the "It's Funny. Laugh" department:
The punk group was formed in Los Angeles in the late 1970s and is credited with popularizing mohawks.
I've been in the punk scene for ten years now, ever since I was a Wee Little Dissident, and I've never, ever heard this. It's actually rather stupid, when you consider that The Germs were a U.S. band, and the prevailing opinion is that the mohawk as a counterculture hairstyle originated and spread in England in the mid-seventies. Yet another case of the media looking for some sort of "shock" value to "spice up" a story. And in this case, the story is already pretty fucked up anyway, so it was pointless.
"We may face a scorched and lifeless earth, but they're accountable to their shareholders first."
A bit off topic, but if anyone hasn't yet tried any of the Dr. Bonner soaps, they really should give them a try. I grew up in a household where handmade soaps (for washing clothes, personal use, etc.) were the norm. As a kid, I thought my parents were weird and chalked it up to being poor. It wasn't until years later that I discovered we were using what others bought as over-priced specialty products from from specialty stores, that's after they became fashionable. It's difficult to describe how good the Dr. Bonner line is, so you'll have to take my word for it. That, and the fact that rich yuppies, eco-terrorists and generally strange but very smart people insist on regularly buying the stuff.
As for Don Bolles, well, we used to live in the same neighbourhood. I'd describe him as someone whose name you wouldn't expect to see in the same sentence as the word soap.
Why they'd test the soap for anything is just plain stupid. Several different soaps, bleaches, and other common household items are used in the military to simulate chemical contamination because they will cause the test kits to go positive.
Any police getting fooled like that, or even bother to test soap is either an idiot, hasn't even the most basic training in using the kit properly, or is trying to frame someone. (Possibly to get a more expansive search warrant. Assuming they still need one...)
Doesn't matter if this happened a couple weeks ago and the guy has been released. Kind of like getting arrested for being black in a Benz, and later released with no charges. That #### isn't supposed to happen in the first place and is a major issue. (To put it politely)
Have you ever seen a bottle of Dr. Bonner's soap? I can see how someone might confuse someone carrying it with some sort of religious fundamentalist. ;)
Put enough GHB in Dr. Bronner's and eventually the fine print on the label starts to make sense. (I was going to link to their site, but you really have to score a bottle of the stuff and devote about 20-30 minutes to reading all the fine print.)
If you mix coconut oil (palmitic acid) with caustic soda, you get what in German is known as "natrium palmitat", or NaPalm for short.
Mix that with gasoline and you get something that burns very hot and sticks to the skin. Nasty!
Unfortunately, yes, it is common for the police to pretend to have an excuse to search people's cars, and for them to be imprisoned with little or no credible evidence, for such minor offenses. As the ability of law enforcement to wildly overreach increases, so will such incidents.
Thats nothing, did you know that something like 4 out of 5 bills in US circulation are contaminated with cocaine? Police know this and love to have the drugs dogs sniff your money when you have a large sum on you and then confiscate it as "suspected" drug money, after which point you never see it again.
Ehem. The Germs are todays breed? The only thing I find more disturbing then the fact that there still are punk-acting bands is the fact that so many people assume they'd know the difference.
The Germs are old.
Quack, quack.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
It's called "pop punk" (which should be an oxymoron, but isn't). It's basically pop music with a very thin veneer of pretend-punk thrown in.
Venezuela filed an extradition request, he is a known convicted Airliner hijacker from 1976 whose escaped trial. The guys lawyer claimed he would be tortured if extradited, the US represents Venezuela under the extradition treaty and they did not even send a lawyer as they're required to do under the US-Venezuela treaty.
Basically they're pissed at Venezuela so they'd rather let a hijacker go free than extradite him to Venezuela for trial.
So they judge heard only one side, and blocked the extradition. Once he clears these immigration charges, the guy walks free throughout the US.
Welcome to Bushworld. Tough on terrorism.... not.
... to testing a bottle of soap for drugs?
That would be pretty ironic I guess.
...and more about appropriate use. No test is ever going to be 100%, and certainly not el cheapo on the street tests. So the important point is WHEN the tests are used. The cops need to have a good reason to suspect a certain substance is present. If they go round testing every bottle or tub they find on anyone they ever search, they will collect HUNDREDS of false positives. If, on the other hand, they only apply the tests to appropriate materials (I wonder if soap is an appropriate GHB delivery system?) and in situations where they have a reason to suspect an illegal substance (like a stoned suspect puffing on a spliff, or a needle-tracked junkie with a syringe in one hand) then the number of false positives will be low, and the police won't be accused of testing people willy-nilly.
otherwise it gets derailed when people get alarmed about the fact that somebody is sitting in jail right now for a mistake and then somebody (in this case me) has to come and point out that the whole thing has actually been resolved.
#1, I'm alarmed about the fact that he was arrested, period.
#2, I'm alarmed that these false positives have been happening for a while, and #3, that it is still presented as valid evidence in criminal cases despite knowledge that it has a high false positive rate. Follow-up tests should be automatic, not a matter of the defendant having money to pay for it.
How did the cop even get to the point of being able to search the car? Oh, cute. The old "broken taillight" routine:
Bolles, 51, was arrested on April 4 after being pulled over for having a broken brake light
The officer got permission to search the vehicle and a field test on a bottle of Dr. Bronner's Magic Soap showed positive for GHB, Sailor said.
Never, never, NEVER agree to a search of your vehicle. Say, "I'm sorry, officer, I do not consent to a search", and if he says he's going to get a search warrant, LET HIM TRY. It's a scare tactic; if they had a legitimate, constitutional right to search you and your car, they already would have done so- and they certainly wouldn't need your permission.
Similarly, if you ARE stupid enough to allow a search (or they have a valid reason to search) and find something, SHUT UP. Don't say anything except, "I wish to speak to, and be represented by, an attorney." I don't care HOW much the cop says he'll "go easy" or who he'll "talk to". IT IS A LIE.
Please help metamoderate.
I went to high school with a guy who complained one day about how his dad had given him a drug test from a kit that he'd bought at the local Rite Aid. According to the kit, the guy tested positive for marijuana, LSD, heroin and cocaine use.
The guy protested furiously, as he had only used marijauna and cocaine, with the occasional Aderol.
This sig is false.
And why is someone (who ever it is) getting locked up for three days on a false positive test "funny"??
... When did people in punk bands start washing?
God Be Gone
"Don't Drink Soap! Dilute! Dilute! or Wet Skin Well! OK!"
In other words, when used as directed, Dr. Bronner's Magic Soap cannot be effective as a date-rape drug.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Congratulations, this story is about a week old if not older. I heard them interview the guy on I think KROQ radio station in Southern California just after it happened.
Anything else you want to report? I don't know.... maybe like Anna Nicole Smith has died or perhaps the fact that JFK was assasinated?
"Actual terrorists are rare..."
Except in afghanistan.
"...and almost every action taken to detect or prevent terrorist acts has a very high false positive rate that makes it useless for the purpose."
Like dogs sniffing for drugs or explosives.
Says who?
Okay, okay.. so poppy seeds not an officially listed narcotic/opiate or whatever you'd call them in the U.S.
Could it be that eating poppy seed products be doing drugs, in some form? I know this sounds ridiculous just on the face of it, but does anybody know the origin of using poppy seeds in food products? I've scraped the poppy seeds off a bun once and ate them.. they didn't have any specific taste that I could tell - quite unlike the relatively strong tastes of, say, sesame seeds, sunflower pits, almond shavings, etc. So assuming I don't have some poppy seed-taste deficiency, and they really are rather bland, why are they in/on food products and why do some of us choose to eat them. Moreover, why do those who choose to eat them choose to eat them relatively frequently? (like GP, who apparently had poppy seed bagels for breakfast every morning - as opposed to plain, sesame seed, etc. for variety)
Has there been research done into this subject? Honestly curious.
Are you kidding me? 10 days is about right for the editors. Plus, I think you're being generous by referring to them as editors. To put it frankly, I think you need to use quotes to indiate "editors" as nothing more than they were bigger brown-nosers at some point, and they happened to be in the right place at the right time. It CERTAINLY doesn't mean that the "editors" are timely, intelligent, or even dilligent. Frankly, I've not gotten any indication that they even give a fuck. If someone did, I suspect that they'd wade through whatever backlog of CRAP and post stuff in a timely basis. Instead, we're living with what these morons have been doing for a LONG, LONG time.
/. editors) couldn't find good copy if you wrapped it around a fish and slapped him in the face with it. /. have never been editors... they are simply morons with privilege. Much like today's politicians, they can't do anything right. If you expect more from them, you really need to go out and experience the real world. The "editors" are notorious for dupes, and dupes of dupes. And they are about as timely as the US Patent Office. Seriously, if you bumped into an editor on the street, told them their underwear were on fire, they'd look!
/. which was better in the sense that the regulars and a few editors would routinely beat up the "bad" editors within the first few posts of an article. Now, it takes at least 1/2 a day to get any kind of acknowledgement (if any), and the editors don't care about correcting the problem(s). /. to an RSS feed that I check once every 3 days.
And I think we're all generous when we refer to them as editors: They remind me of back when I was in Junior High school. I was in the photography club. We were approached by the school "newspaper" where we had a clueless dumbfuck who was given the title "editor". While it was apparent he had a grasp of the english language, his chief skills were butt-kissing the librarian and vice principal, and NOT paying attention to what's current and appropriate.
That clueless brown-noser (like today's
The "editors" at
I used to frequent the "old"
That's why I've relegated
I guess the one nice thing is that with the immense time delay between when a story is submitted and actually posted, the editors are at least consistent.
Date rape drug? Like alcohol??
It just happens that my dad, who graduated from school as a chemical engineer in 1939 and had a job at Dow Chemical in 1944, told me differently...
The soap was made out of hemp-oil so that will help him get back on their good (or is it bad) side.
but isnt GHB derived from glycerine?
arent most soaps?
back in the day we didnt have no old school
Certain toothpastes and many oral care products field test positive for cocaine.
It's just something to watch for.
No cop with an ounce of common sense arrests solely on a field test. The substance has to actually make sense to be the substance in question.
Of course, without seeing the full arrest report...who could say? You have to wonder why the soap was tested in the first place.
If I have a broken tail-light, testing a bottle of soap in my car for a date-rape drug is pretty f*cking insulting.
My favorite part of the interview (second link):
There's a lot of buzz about that movie. Have you seen it? Not yet. I got to watch the kid who plays me, and that was awful. He's nothing like me, and it was the worst thing ever, for a while. For a while? So he got better? No. But worse things have happened to me since then.
thought he killed one of the members of the punk band GBH and turned them into soap
Yeah like MJ causes reefer madness and nicotine is good for your lungs. Spin.
I have no doubt that some people have used GHB to assist them in raping people. But let's not brand the drug based on what an incredibly small minority of people do with it. If we were to do that, then surely alcohol would be the No 1 'date rape drug'.
Bagels test positive for opiates. Well, they do if they're covered in poppy seeds.
... They'll just simply arrest you on the spot for driving a toxic waste dump on a public road.
Back in my day, kids, it was widely reported that LSD caused chromosome damage. But then all sorts of commonly ingested substances cause chromosome damage in test tubes. As is usually the case in these things, that rebuttal came out some time later and was not widely reported so most people middle-aged and up probably still believe LSD causes chromosome damage.
If NBC was useful in letting someone demonstrate a logical fallacy surrounding soap, that worked out pretty well.
"Music" is still around in 2007? Jesus, move onto a new form of entertainment alreadfy.
The test in question is a screening test. That is, a test that is designed to quickly eliminate the possability of a substance so you don't have to perform the more expensive and time consuming confirmation test. So, a negative result means the substance is not present, positive means it MIGHT be. If the police and/or courts don't understand that, they shouldn't be using the test at all.
Unfortunatly, apparently the test is marketed for use much as the police used it in this case.
The other problem in this case is that Bronner's is obviously soap. Just how did they imagine that GHB would even be (ab-)useful after mixing it into soap? What would have even lead them to believe the bottle contained GHB in the first place?
Resolved? We still haven't gotten to the bottom of why Dr. Bronner is putting date rape drugs in his soap. Why did he try to frame a musician for date rape before then turning around to assist in his legal defense once the thing blew wide open? This whole thing smacks of a coverup. I want to know what else this Dr. Bronner has been up to.
Noise is emerging as a genre of tomorrow. Punk will be allowed to die soon.
Issue resolved? It wasn't your butt that was falsely accused and had to sit in jail overnight for it.
For many people the accusation could really effect your public characater. True, for the person in question it would be pretty hard to damage it any, but for most of us it would, especially since it is now on your record forever and in the papers..
You go thru that rather terrible experience then come back and dismiss it as 'resolved' a couple of days later.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Because if punk rockers use soap, the terrists have won.
The answer to the eternal apologist's question:
"If you haven't done anything wrong, why do you care if they search your bags/test your urine/watch what you read/monitor your movements/listen to your phone conversations?"
Because people are fuckups, and you don't let fuckups police your life for no damned good reason.
Cops look for a reason to arrest. If they "just know" that some civilian is guilty of "something," then obviously they can make a field test return a positive result with soap to give them more time to search or whatever. There's probably a short list of somewhat common materials people may have with them that tests positive on some specific test.
It's along the same lines as pulling someone over and asking the driver ten different times the basic question "Is it okay to search your car?" In progressively more confusing and convoluted ways because all the driver has to do is slip up once. Then the cop can get on with his job of figuring out what you're guilty of.
It's like developing a field test for explosives and then being able to arrest someone because their gasoline tank tested positive for highly flammable material.
A few years back I was coming home from the dentist, and realized that getting stopped would be a really really bad thing. My voice would have been all slurry because my mouth wazh shtill numb frub da novocaine, so they'd want to test me, novocaine's a cocaine relative, the codeine I'd had earlier in the day is an opiate, I'd had some sudafed to keep my breathing clear while they worked on me, so they'd test that as amphetamines, and ibuprofen causes false positives on the standard cheap marijuana tests. Hadn't had any alcohol that day, and they can't really test for nitrous (and it had worn off before I left the dentist), but otherwise I'd have had a perfect score unless they also test for weird stuff like mescaline or something...
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
"Entertainment" is still around in 2007? Jesus, move onto a new form of action already.
I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
Man, after reading his story on wikipedia and straight dope I'm sorry to have learned that he's died.
It sounds like he would have been really interesting to talk to.
I don't read AC A human right
That's got to be the biggest pile of bullshit ever modded up on Slashdot! Jesus, what a steaming pile of crap!
He was not arrested for carrying soap. He was arrested on suspicion of possession of a banned substance.
Slashdot morons..
"Makes you wonder what other common household products also test positive; and how many others have been arrested based on faulty test kits who didn't have the resources to defend themselves."
Drug urinanalysis tests are notorious for false positives as well as true positives for common food stuffs which do carry the drug(s), but in minute quantities. I recall an entire class of substance abuse counselors in training being given surprise urinalysis so they'd know how it feels. They all tested positive, in testing and restesting. The culprit was poppy seed muffins supplied by the organization presenting the class. This was figured out by the instructor. Had it not been, or had this been one or more individuals really being tested for whatever reason, the samples would have been retained and passed to a lab for mass spectrometry. This test is many orders of magnitude more accurate. It absolutely identifies molecules present. It does not indicate the source. They'd have been considered positives, which is guilt by fairly irrefutible evidence, but not considered false positives due to circumstantial evidence. How many? I have no idea, in general. I do know that I, and those I worked with in substance abuse treatment, did inquire into possible sources, knowing of the above. All that I supervised admitted using, after giving bad excuses. I knew of the possible other sources -- they didn't. But then I worked for a facility which was owned by a medical corporation. They had potential liability and so expected us to be careful like this. Testing done by law enforcement and similar organizations are not considered as liable, as they themselves cannot be held as accountable. They can and do jail based on initial testing, even probable false positives and obvious ridiculous positives (how was he going to get the supposed intended victim to ingest enough soap?). However, they can be held accountable, especially in the press. Sad as the case is, this is probably the best chance the individual has for getting just due. With popular knowledge and support, any case would go more his way, and law enforement tends to go Tango Uniform when faced with the prospect. He could get damages if he pressed it. I hope his roasts the bastards.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
"real Mac user: ...the round pegs in the square holes..."
Nope, just square.
Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
It seems to me that by the time you apply the GBH in soap, it seems to be a little too late to be worrying about date rape drugs...
After all, surely even a punk rock drummer knows that soap *kills* Germs!
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Ummm... wtf? What intoxicant ISN'T a date rape drug?
Dopamine makes you want. Anything that potentiates dopamine, barring more complex interactions, DIRECTLY increases a person's sexual desire. Note: ritalin is a dopaminergic reuptake inhibitor. Adderall is that, and more, causing the brain to release more dopamine into the synaptic gap.
Alcohol reduces inhibitions... I think we're all familiar with how this one works.
Do we classify these as date rape drugs? For fuck's sake, of course not.
But would you want to argue against such egregious, destructive and obvious error? Not if you wanted to be elected - it's too easy to rip on the poor fools naive enough to think of public utility. Which brings me to my point - one that, unfortunately, someone far more sinister than I stated succinctly:
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." - Adolf Hitler
Actually, many pesticides are at least somewhat effective nerve agents against mammals in high enough concentrations. Certain people can be extremely effected by certain pesticides over and above average reactions, too. Many of them are toxic in other ways instead of or in addition to being nerve agents in people. In the U.S., the EPA makes no suggestion that pesticides are not toxic to humans. They rate them by how toxic they are and how quickly they break down. They then clear some of them for use in certain concentrations with certain labels and certain restrictions on who can use some of them. Pesticides are known to be a danger to the nervous, endocrine, and reproductive systems. The health benefits of having higher yields and therefore cheaper prices on foods -- especially fruits and vegetables -- is often thought to outweigh the risks. This may be true when properly designed pesticides are properly used and your food is properly cleaned before you eat it. As with most things in life, though, there are trade-offs.
I, for one, have been in the emergency room for a number of hours before with what the doctors called giant hives due to exposure to pesticides. Giant hives are just like regular hives, only my hives were 2-3 inches wide, 4-8 inches long, and up to a quarter of an inch raised from the normal surface of the skin. They itch like hell, are pretty painful, they're very discolored, and they can last for days or weeks. They're caused by a number of things, but mine were caused by pesticide exposure. The doctors were monitoring to make sure my throat didn't close since I had such a strong reaction in the skin.
Lots of people are even saying that lower IQ scores, more asthma, and other health problems among children are due the amount of pesticides used in schools. ADD, Asperger's, and many of the issues that have been increasingly diagnosed are neurological in nature. Those rates may or may not have something to do with pesticides. The truth is, no one really knows what the levels of pesticides in U.S. schools is doing to kids. The EPA has guidelines to reduce exposure due to suspicion that it can't be good to have children inundated with the stuff. The state of Washington a few years ago pass a law stating that parents must be notified when there children's schools would be using pesticides. The state of New York has a nice writeup on a study it did in which it states that 87% of schools in NY used pesticides, that no pesticide be considered completely safe, and lists the more usual effects of several common pesticides and herbicides.
"Punks Not Dead" - but the apostrophe is on its last leg's
where are you going to find 12 drummers smart enough to follow a criminal trial?
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
"Action" is still around in 2007? Jesus, move onto the next, uh...concept already.
Link up the Meth, PCP & Absinthe, go down well with breakfast!
http://nathanlindsell.blogspot.com/
"and how many others have been arrested based on faulty test kits who didn't have the resources to defend themselves."
I don't see how a test kit could successfully raise money or represent itself in court (AFAIK, they can't talk). That's just ludicrous.
No, the joke is that a drummer was actually carrying soap.
The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
Noise? The Detroit noise scene peaked, what, a decade ago? Even if Warren Defever's crowd still keeps it alive, that's very much a genre of yesterday.
Or, for a quick and easy "sticky but flammable" substance, mix Diesel and Styrofoam.
Punk rockers shouldn't use soap, anyway.
Give the RIAA another 5 years... they're working hard on the case already.
"The need to build the internet comes from something inside us, something programmed... something we can't resist."
Have you ever read the label of a bottle of Dr. Bronner's Soap? I used to have to stare at one every day I took a shower because someone where I was living left a bottle of it in the shower and there was nothing else to occupy my mind. Staring at a bottle of Dr. Bronner soap for several minutes every day will drive you insane.
Wikipedia article on Bronner with a couple of excerpts from the label.
You used to be able to download PDFs of the labels at their website, but it looks like I now can't show you the face of madness I had to stare into every morning. You can buy them at Whole Foods, Trader Joes, and other "natural" product stores if your ever interested in weirding yourself out.
Heck, I don't blame the cops for drug testing a bottle of this soap after seeing it. I mean it's got the word HEMP in big bold letters and the rambling of a madman on it.
(Besides, what's your point? Unlike a punk band member, what's so suspicious about an IT professional having a bottle of soa--.... Ah. Never mind.)
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
The "Maguire Seven" were wrongly convicted as members of the IRA running a bomb-making factory out of their home. The evidence pointed to the fact that a chemical found in explosives was found on the dish-washing gloves of one of the convicted. It later turned out that this chemical was common in household cleaning agents. A movie was made about this case, primarily about the "Guildford Four", but the "Maguire Seven" are related to this case being of the same family. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Name_of_the_Fa ther
After they were convicted of murder and received the mandatory sentence of life imprisonment, the judge expressed regret that the Four had not been charged with treason, which then still had a mandatory death penalty.
On February 9, 2005, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Tony Blair issued an apology to the families of the eleven people imprisoned for the bombings, and those related to them who were still alive, by saying, in part: 'I am very sorry that they were subject to such an ordeal and injustice (...) they deserve to be completely and publicly exonerated.'
The movie is very good and well worth a watch if you're interested in recent Irish history, miscarriage of justice.
For god sakes it's a computer, not a lifestyle. Real "Mac users" aren't changing the world, they are just plunking away at the keyboard like the rest of the world.
since you seem to like the dictionary try this one-
Main Entry: condescend
Pronunciation: "kän-di-'send
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French condescendre, from Late Latin condescendere, from Latin com- + descendere to descend
1 a : to descend to a less formal or dignified level
2 : to assume an air of superiority
"But this one goes to 11!"
I found it interesting and potentially misleading that it was worded: "contained GHB, the date rape drug." Calling GHB a date rape drug implies that it is going to be used to date rape somebody, when in actuality, it is only a date rape drug when taken in very high doses or combined with alcohol. Many people actually take GHB recreationally, and do not possess it with any intention of raping somebody.
Police are warning all men who frequent clubs, parties and local pubs to be alert and stay cautious when offered a drink from any woman. Many females use a date rape drug on the market called ...Beer. The drug is found in liquid form and available anywhere. It comes in bottles, cans, from taps and in large "kegs".
Beer is used by female sexual predators at parties and bars to persuade their male victims to go home and have sex with them. A woman needs only to get a guy to consume a few units of Beer and then simply ask him home for no strings attached sex. Men are rendered helpless against this approach.
After several Beers, men will often succumb to the desires to perform sexual acts on horrific looking women whom they would never normally be attracted.
After drinking Beer, men often awaken with only hazy memories of exactly what happened to them the night before, often with just a vague feeling that "something bad" occurred.
At other times these unfortunate men are swindled out of their life's savings, in a familiar scam known as a "relationship". In extreme cases, the female may even be shrewed enough to entrap the unsuspecting male into a longer term form of servitude and punishment referred to as "marriage". Men are much more susceptible to this scam after Beer is administered and sex is offered by the predatory females. Please! Forward this warning to every male you know.
If you fall victim to this beer and the women administering it..... There are male support groups where you can discuss the details of your shocking encounter with similarly affected like-minded guys. For the support group nearest you, just look up "Golf Courses" in the phone book.
I would have thought it'd have THC or CBD or CBN because Dr. Bronner's is made from hemp and olive oils.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
When the wife(to be)'s not looking, switch out the baby einstein cd with london calling.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
I once tested real GHB with a date rape test kit (not the same kit, but still claimed to test for GHB) and it came back negative. Ironic, I think.
I don't know about the field tests, but I can tell you to never, ever take a "lie detector" test. They don't actually detect lies. They detect an emotional response that the tester will interpret as a lie or the truth. If I'm accused of something, I want evidence to based on something more concrete than an interpretation. I know first hand they return false positives. From what I have read, a polygraph test is more reliable as a "truth detector". That is, a result of "no deception detected" is more often correct than the result of "deception detected".
Well it's good that no musician was arrested.
[Other drummer jokes]
That is all.
My favorite part of the bottle is the lemon-juice-and-soap-as-birth-control part.
Man, you really need that seminar!
I'm tired of this kind of rhetoric. It's an illogical arguement because the innocent always find the means to defend themselves unless there is some reason to fear in guilt. Let's just remember that MOST people dont exude an alias that says "I'm a junkie who is probable to be in possession of illegal substances."
You are who they are, in that you are who you associate with. This is a classic example of past history + current company creating a situation where it was determined to be prudent to search this person.
In all cases such as these, an officer would not field test a soap unless there was other indicators of suspicion. Remember, we dont have the full context of the situation unless we are there. A verbal or written testimony often leaves out those suspicion indicators such as "the guy was twitching and wouldnt look me in the eye when I asked him what was in the bottle".
Of course I'm going to go down in flames for this commentary, but the reality is that irregardless of political correctness, profiling is a common component in ALL cases of criminality. I.E, why a red Ferrari will be pulled over more often than that sputtering Honda for going 8 over the speed limit. Why the idiots with red and green bandana's in their pockets hanging out of the pants hanging off the back of their asses are always getting lined up on the wall.
Yup. I tried to use ruffies once to get with a chick. I guess you are supposed to put them in HER drink, not yours :-( Man did I have a headache the next day!
Libertas in infinitum
Have you looked at mainstream torrent sites? like torrentspy or torrentportal? I would be surprised if it weren't readily avialable.. I'm at work so i can't help you look right now.
A Drummer. With soap.
You can't blame the cops for wondering what he was going to do with it...
Dextromethorphan cough suppressant doesn't make most people drowsy in the doses normally taken for cough suppression. It's also often packaged with an expectorant or decongestant or Tylenol. On the other hand, it's also taken in large doses as a recreational dissociative (see Erowid for commentary), which can be really dangerous if you're consuming formulations that mix in other drugs.
As far as dentists using novocaine and nitrous when you've taken other drugs, novocaine's very localized, and dental patients are very commonly taking codeine or stronger relatives.
Nitrous is pretty self-regulating when administered with normal dental apparatus - if you're getting too much, you breathe through your mouth to get more air, or if you want more, you breathe more though your nose, and if you pass out, you'll have your mouth open. My normal trip to the dentist is followed by a trip to Peet's or Starbucks and enough time for the nitrous to finish wearing off before I go home, but I didn't bother mentioning caffeine among the drugs I'd taken that trip
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
That's not really true - while it's fairly popular to make multi-symptom cold medicines, with Sudafed, antihistamine, tylenol/aspirin, expectorant, and dextromethorphan, those aren't the ones that get advertised as non-drowsy. Sudafed and its relatives get sold by themselves as non-drowsy, and as you say they're stimulant. The other main non-drowsy allergy meds are things like Claritin, which is an anti-histamine that doesn't make you drowsy, and while they also formulate it with a stimulant decongestant, they advertise both of them as non-drowsy. Allegra's pretty much the same way, available by prescription either straight or with decongestant; I find it's a bit more effective for me most of the time.
Yeah, I should have clarified: The non-drowsy stuff you can get without a prescription is just stimulants put back in to keep you awake. The prescription stuff, however...some of that stuff doesn't work the same way, and thus isn't inherently a depressant. I don't really know a lot about the prescription stuff...I just try to be knowledgeable about the drugs I select myself, and assume, when the doctor selects them, he knows what he's doing.
Dextromethorphan cough suppressant doesn't make most people drowsy in the doses normally taken for cough suppression. It's also often packaged with an expectorant or decongestant or Tylenol.
Dextromethorphan, otherwise known as Robitussin, will not normally make people 'drowsy' using standard doses. It does make some people, me included, slightly disoriented. Whereas 'drowsy' allergy medicine has no effect on me.
And while it may be 'often packaged' with stuff, I wouldn't really know, because I deliberately don't buy 'multiple medication' stuff. I can add my own damn medicine together, thank you very much. People should grab the contents of their medicine cabinet, look up each 'active ingredient' on Wikipedia, and learn, roughly, what they do, and start purchasing allergy and cough and headache medicine based on the actual active ingredient instead of the fancy label. Buy the stuff with only one active ingredient, and when you go to the medicine cabinet you can add allergy+headache or cough supressant+allergy or whatever you actually need at the moment.
And this also will allow you learn exactly which ones work for you, and which don't.
As far as dentists using novocaine and nitrous when you've taken other drugs, novocaine's very localized, and dental patients are very commonly taking codeine or stronger relatives.
I know they sometimes give you multiple drugs, I was just surprised they'd give you a drug while you were under another drug they hadn't given you.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Claritin used to be prescription, but it's now OTC, and it's come down from a buck a pill to something more reasonable. Try it; you might like it. It's not as heavy-duty as benadryl or my old standard clorpheniramine, but it's not bad for a once-a-day pill. There's also clemastine fumarate (aka Tavist), which is a not-very-drowsy antihistamine that's usually an 8-12 hour dose; I get a little spacy on it but not usually enough to bother me, and YMMV. Both used to be available either plain or with sudafed before the meth wars; I suepect they've probably also come out with a phenylephrine version. (Sigh - usually PE doesn't work as well for me as Sudafed.)
I normally prefer to buy single-ingredient pills and mix my dosages myself, just as you do, but sometimes there are convenient enough combinations.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Claritin used to be prescription, but it's now OTC, and it's come down from a buck a pill to something more reasonable.
I didn't know that, thanks. I'll try it.
Tavist is what I normally use when I know in advance I'll be out in pollen all day. It doesn't seem to bother me at all.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?