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Modern Medicine Might Have Saved Lincoln
Pcol writes "For the past 13 years the University of Maryland School of Medicine has presented a historical clinicopathological conference where they consider famous historical medical cases such as the death of Alexander the Great and composer Ludwig van Beethoven and provide a modern diagnosis and treatment in each case. This year Dr. Thomas M. Scalea, physician-in-chief for the R Adams Cowley Shock Trauma Center discusses if the world's first center for trauma victims could have improved the outcome had Lincoln's assassination occurred in 2007. 'This could be a recoverable injury, with a reasonable expectation he would survive,' Scalea said, noting that assassin's weapon was relatively impotent compared to the firepower now on the streets today. The modern prognosis predicts that Lincoln might have conceivably recovered enough to return to the White House to complete his second term."
Besides that Mrs. Lincoln... how was the play?
So, what this article is saying is, "Today's technology better than technology 150 years ago..."
And, as pointed out in the article, the weapon used then was relatively impotent. Would it not be safe to consider that if the assassination were committed today the assassin likely would have also used updated technology (i.e., something more, ahem, potent)?
...what kind of gun would he have been shot with had today's technology been around? Certainly not one that was "relatively impotent compared to the firepower now on the streets today."
Yeah... but what if he'd been shot with a modern gun?
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
Yes, if the medical technologies and treatments we have today were developed earlier they could have saved people who are now dead. Isn't that obvious??!
-- Cheers!
do they have similar presentations at conferences, like how the civil war would have ended if the south had stealth bombers... and how Hannibal would have done if he had a fleet of Hummers with 50cal BMGs?
Did they also have a cure for being 198 years old?
...Is that because you don't need a brain to be president?
Of course... it could also be said that "modern security could have prevented the weapon being anywhere near the president in the first place."
"They said I probly shouldn't fly with just one eye," "I am Bender. Please insert girder."
And if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.
... the sky is blue and bears defecate in the woods...
I Like Pie...
What!?
And future medicine might have brought him back from the dead, able to play piano and fly! Or maybe not. No medicine might have saved George Washington, instead of the leeches.
Such pointless speculation. Yes, obviously better medical care could have saved a lot of people. How about "Modern Medicine Could Have Prevented Black Plague!" Maybe, "85% of amputations during the civil war wouldn't have occurred with modern surgery!" Seriously, I can keep this up all day...
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
I'd have preferred to die. Being 198 years old would not be fun.
In other news, life expectancy is no longer 50, bloodletting is no longer a recommended medical treatment, and witches do, in fact, sink when tied to large stones and thrown into water.
Anyone get the impression that calling a gun used in an assassination 150 years ago impotent compared to today's weapons is just another salvo launched from the anti-gun crowd?
More Twoson than Cupertino
If only cryogenic resurrection centers had existed at that time we might still have Lincoln with us today.
Your courageous and selfless spelling corrections have made me a better person.
If we could go back in 1907 knowing what we know today, we might have a chance to save the planet and our own future as a race.
Quick, somebody go and build a time machine!
Don't get me wrong, it's certainly an interesting study to attempt to diagnose an individual's condition when only historical data exists. I'm sure there also are ways in which such studies, when done correctly, could help advance modern medicine. My point is just that it's important to see them in context, and to be careful not to use them as proof that modern man is somehow inherently "better" than his ancestors.
Deja Moo: The distinct feeling that you've heard this bull before.
The 2006 guy is Booker T. Washington. For some reason, they never actually mention his name in the summary or the full treatment. (http://www.medicalalumni.org/CPC/pages/previous.h tm)
--I'm so big, my sig has its own sig.
-- See?
Not all modern weapons are any good. Some are damn near useless.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Everyone seems to griping about the anachronistic quality of this study, but that's sort of how it works; the point of this sort of conference seems to be to emphasize the importance of both the development of medical technology and getting that (or just the basics) available to as many people as possible, not to simply satisfy everyone's "what if" curiosity.
Millions of corpses just rolled in their graves.
Because I just saw him on TV with a gopher
It sounds like the guys who are too embarrassed to admit that they still live in Mom's basement found somewhere else to go besides the Star Trek convention. I bet if you raided 100 of their houses, you'd find 99 sets of Spock ears. Seriously, how is this news? Any of us can sit around and speculate about what would happen if Carthage had cannons, if Herodotus had a laptop, if the Romans had camcorders, if Galen had an ICU or if Battle Star Galactica had Romulan cloaking devices or of both BSG & ST had SG's star gates. It's still just that - speculation and it's just about as relevant to anything as my toe jam.
2 cents,
Queen B.
HDGary secures my bank
Zombie Jesus hates it when people cheat death, so he might have fried Lincoln's ass with his eye lasers a couple days later anyway. Then Time-travelling Elvis might have gyrated on Lincoln's crisp body while Parallel-dimension Grog the Caveman and Down-the-street William might have done play-by-play.
A .44 blackpowder pistol isn't underpowered.
Why is this tagged "biotech" and "science"?? /. needs a "stoner revelations" tag if they are going to post this goofy stuff.
Honestly,
"hey...if I had gills, I bet I could swim underwater longer...yeah"
Innocent? Incapable of harming the US? Nothing has ever harmed the United States more than the Confederation!
Lincoln is overrated anyway.
...what kind of gun would he have been shot with had today's technology been around?
and don't forget, they didn't even have the catcher in the rye back then.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Lincoln was shot with a .41 derringer, possibly using a rimfire cartridge filled with black power link
.8 inch diameter hole as opposed to the .41 inch hole left by the derringer that did not penetrate
It consisted of a 130 grain lead bullet propelled at 425 ft/second and had a total energy of right around 52 ft. lbs.
Compare that to a modern day 40 S&W cartridge (used by most police today), that sends a 135 grain modern day Jacketed Hollow Point expanding bullet at a velocity of 1200 ft/second producing around 432 ft. lbs. of energy out of a 4 inch barrel (slight loss of velocity for a shorter barrel). This would have gone clean through the head, leaving an approximately
link
He most likely would not have survived if this happened in the modern day.
I've read Slashdot for the last 5 years, and now I start posting... Go figure
What would happen today is that the bullet would be deflected by Chuck Norris' beard...Lincoln's head would explode out of shear amazement.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
WTF is this? A cross between Doogie Houser and a LARP? What do they call it, "Fantasy Medicine"?
FLR
In other news, a recent study shows that using modern materials as well as safety and engineering best practices might have prevented the Titanic disaster.
Seriously, it's been said many times on here already, but, how is this news?
Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
I'm currently reading a fantastic biography of Lincoln & several members of his cabinet, called Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln
I've never found politics particularly interesting, but Doris Kearns Goodwin really brings it to life.
A post a day keeps productivity at bay.
Check this video for the details of a fascinating technology of tommorow, that could save Jesus.
This year Dr. Thomas M. Scalea, physician-in-chief for the R Adams Cowley Shock Trauma Center discusses if the world's first center for trauma victims could have improved the outcome had Lincoln's assassination occurred in 2007
They failed to take into account how frail and weak a Lincoln would be at the age of 198. Surely this would offset most of the benefits of modern medicine.
Honestly, guys, do I have to do all of your thinking for you?
If only she had a modern GPS unit on her.
And Dinosaurs. They'd exist today if only there were modern breeding programs at the time.
And the Hindenburg. with modern safety features, it never would have burned.
And Jack the Ripper. Modern forensics would have closed his case.
So many avertable tragedies. So few time machines.
An assassin today wouldn't use an outdated gun. He'd use an automatic, if available (Uzis come to mind) and spray his target. Or he would use a weapon with greater impact.
Of course it's easy to say today all those people who were murdered could have been saved with modern medicine. I'm quite aware that assassins are aware of this and use methods that prove to be fatal compared to the potential of their adversaries, the medics trying to save the life of the target.
Think of Caesar. Back then a stab anywhere in the abdomen was pretty much a surefire way to kill. Today you might have to hit your mark, and even then...
Think of all those people who were poisoned. How many would go to a doc today and he'd find out immediately and before it's too late that they are poisoned and what the antidote would be? Would an assassin use the same poison? No, he'd pick a killing method that can't be countered. Just like they did back then.
So, generally, I wouldn't read too much into this. Yes, they could have been saved by modern medicine if someone was stupid enough to try to kill them in an old fashion way.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Computers are also faster now than they were 150 years ago.
Considering Lincoln had a patent (the only one to have one). History would have been different.
Thank you for emailing me an image of a message regarding my inbox. I will be sure to check it soon.
Yeah, and AK-47's would have won the war for the South.
/ dp/0345413660/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-8054677-9538469? ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179518794&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Guns-South-Harry-Turtledove
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
So modern medicine could have saved Lincoln? So then, by that reasoning John would have had time to use his cell phone to call Jodie and profess his undying love.
Probably would have been easier to save John Wilkes Booth. Given current attitudes, it would have been more important to save him, so they could execute him later.
Oh and since nobody has already said it about 18 times. "He would have been shot with a modern gun, so like no way dude!" In your face article writer guy!
How dare you disparage leeches?? They come to us on the highest recommendation of Dr. Hoffmann of Stuttgart! The great Hoffman! Owner of the largest leech-farm in Europe!
I show the actual velocity figures for a .41 black powder cartridge and get marked redundant... Thanks Slashdot... Maybe everyone knew that they produced a paultry 51 ft. lbs. and I'm just talking to the wall. (51 ft. lbs. is 50 ft. lbs. less than a 22 rimfire!).
I've read Slashdot for the last 5 years, and now I start posting... Go figure
No medicine might have saved George Washington, instead of the leeches.
The deliberate blood draining definitely killed any chance he would've had to recover... but important to note that there *was* medicine available back then that could've probably gone a long way towards healing his epiglotitis/throat infection... golden seal root was well-known by Native Americans, as well as colonial folk medicine in the 1700-1800's, to have healing powers for infections. And indeed modern science has shown it to have some fairly strong antibiotic capabilities. I've used it myself for sinus infections and strep throat, and it definitely works. Not quite as good as modern prescription antibiotics, but good enough for me.
> if the world's first center for trauma victims could have improved the outcome had Lincoln's assassination occurred in 2007.
Funny thing to attempt. Sounds like a great mafia tagline: "Improving the outcome of assassinations since 1865!"
u-bend
...he might have married Joshua Speed instead of Mary Todd. And, as a result, he might have been unelectable in 1860 or 2008. And might not have had a political career. And might not have been assassinated.
But if HIV had been available, he might have gotten AIDS.
But if acyclovir had been available, he might not have died from it.
But if nuclear weapons had been available, the Civil War might have turned into a nuclear holocaust and he might had died from that.
But if global warming had been available, the United States might have been uninhabitable and he might have been an Englishman.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
So much for that plan of getting Hillary Clinton to go to the theater if she gets elected in 2008! ;-)
So now we just need our time machines. Take modern medicine back to Lincoln to save him. Yeah that would do it.
Wait, I just had another idea. Why not take that same time machine back to Lincoln, only 5 minutes earlier in time. Earlier enough to just yell "DUCK!
What the hell am I supposed to do with any of this information? Does this even qualify as news?
Before you mod me down, understand that history is won by the victors.
I would suggest that Abraham Lincoln is probably one of the templates for the current US administration. Suspension of habeus corpus, erosion of state and individual rights, unconstitutional increases of executive power, etc. If you look at US history, the tyrannical empire started well on its way under the Lincoln administration. He actually had no interest in freeing the slaves (he's on record as such) and only did so as a military strategy to try and weaken the south.
My only regret about Lincoln's assassination is that it didn't come years sooner.
OK now you can go ahead and mod me down.
Think of Caesar. Back then a stab anywhere in the abdomen was pretty much a surefire way to kill.
The 1st century Roman military doctor, Galen, had clean, sterile military hospitals. Wounded Roman soldiers of his day had recovery rates unsurpassed until World War I.
Interestingly enough leeches today are a recommended treatment for amputees.
Ooo man the floppy drive is broken. No wait. The computer is just upside down.
No! It goes: Tap Tap Tap...Tap Tap
You went: Tap Tap Tap...Tap
Nooooo!
I hope they don't try to revive him now. He's not going to look so good.
What?
I just checked and it seems the average lifespan of humans has gone from about 45 to 80 over the past 150 years. I know a lot of that is because of modern medicine, but I'm curious if anyone has an educated guess at how much of this increase is attributed to medicine (as opposed to diet, safer lifestyle, ...).
Hobby Robotics
If I recall history correctly, it was not Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation nor even the defeat of the Confederate States in the Civil War that brought our country together. Lincoln's death had a major impact on the people as a whole. Reunification was cemented by it. The south was embarrassed by Boothe's action and rebellious groups ceased their activities.
Lincoln was a visionary and a very ethical man according to the history books. Had he lived, the country likely would have remained divided amongst the peoples, mentally and spiritually. I doubt our country would have unified, worked together and developed as we have. Very possibly Japan and Russia would have ended up as the only super powers in the 30's and 40's and that would leave us in a fascist/socialist/communist world.
SEE what havoc modern medicine can wreak?
Besides, if Lincoln were alive today he'd be appalled at the current legal, political and governmental systems we have in place. No room for ethics whatsoever. He has more value on the penny and the $5 bill. Sad really.
Modern medicine *absolutely* would have saved James A. Garfield. It took him over two months to die, and that of an infection! There is an argument that he was the most intelligent man to ever be President, so one has to wonder if he might have accomplished something if he hadn't been in office for only six months, two of them in what turned out to be his deathbed.
Jesus, umm, maybe not, as this girl found out
No... Probably not.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
but he'd still be dead.
Had Lincoln's assassination occured in 2007 I doubt they would have used a Deringer single-shot pistol and a 3" hunting knife.
:)
Today we would see 6" or longer steel bowie knife and a semiautomatic handgun with rounds designed to splinter on impact and cause maximum fragmentation.
Still neat, but a little misleading. Should be something along the lines of "Had we been able to transplant Lincoln to 2007" then it'd be ok.
If you were offended by anything I said... No, I'm not sorry. Please lighten up.
It's too bad that we didn't freeze him.
Oh well, we already know that they get his head back by the year 3000. It sits in the Hall of Presidents, in the head museum.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Modern Medicine Might Have Been Able to Kill Jesus..for good!
Even such a relatively puny weapon would cause severe problems if lincoln were injured with it today, as he would be nearly 200 years old and this would greatly complicate matters.
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
Curse me for working today, the important stuff gets ignored....
(But I would have added, "Thank-you, thank-you...try your waiter, tip me, your veal will be here all week.")
I don't think the medicine would have saved him. He would have died because of aging by now.
If you mod this up, your slashdot background will turn into a beautiful sunset!
is it worth saving someone who lifted the habeas corpus, started a war, used conscription, established income taxes... This guy was a disgusting criminal.
\u262D = \u5350
We have Viagra in the Lincoln bedroom nowadays...............
The Final Countdown (1980)
Wouldn't it be cool if a modern aircraft carrier with fighter jets was available at Pearl Harbor?
Then Kirk Douglas could beat those pesky Japanese!
If he just lasted a little longer.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
.45ACP and 9mm luger are both around a century old, but only in the sense of the specified dimensions. (9x19 luger is 106 years old, in fact.)
Modern rounds can be packed to much higher pressures (a modern 9mm +P+ round packs a much bigger wallop than a 1898 9mm luger round) of faster-burning propellant.
Not to mention expanding bullets. Hollow- and soft-point bullets were invented about 30 years after the Lincoln assassination, and have been improved since then. Polymer-filled expanders are much more recent. Expanding bullets make a dramatic difference in wounding potential.
I stole this sig from someone cleverer than me.
so, in this version lincon shot first?
i have found, you can find,happiness in slavery!
...they'll announce "We finally have the technology to save Lincoln."
Obligatory Joke:
If Lincoln were alive, what would he be doing today?
Clawing desperately at the lid of his coffin.
The usual pro-confederacy arguments are that they were fighting for states' rights and not for slavery. These are both patently false.
The southern states were the ones arguing for federal supremacy over states. They wanted the federal government to enforce slavery laws in free states. They argued that a slave owner should retain ownership of those slaves while traveling in free states, and that slaves who escaped to free states should be returned to their owners. Hardly a states rights position!
The war of 1812 was a disaster, economically, for the New England states which depended so heavily on trade. They spent three years getting up the nerve to send a delegation to Washington to bring up the subject of secession, but the war ended before they could do anything. The southern states were the most vocal in condemning secession as treason. How interesting that when their ox was being gored, they acted immediately, not even trying to negotiate with the federal government. So much for honor!
As for economics, which is the usual neo-confedrate blame for northern aggression, it was slavery which put the south at a disadvantage, in that it made labor so cheap that industrialization was too expensive. It really hurt the small farmers who had to do their own labor. I have never understood why poor whites, then or now, backed the slavery system which kept them in poverty. No self-employed man can compete with slaves. The expense of overseers doesn't come close to compensating for the cheap maintenance (crowded crappy housing, no elders to take care of) of slaves.
It was a war for the rich white southerners. Nobody else would have benefited from secession.
Infuriate left and right
when it can save him right now.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The United States was a rough place back then. I recall an incident that occurred in Congress (I think in the Senate) back in the 1840's or 1850's, where one senator got really angry with another, and severely beat the other senator with a cane right there on the Senate floor. Backwoodsmen-types who were elected to Congress from the newer states on the frontier tended to be particularly prone to rowdy behavior.
...progressions in medicine help people heal better. You heard it here first - on DNN, your Duh News Network. I remember playing Oregon trail and having family members in the game die of diarrhea. They may have called such an ailment "death" way back when, but you know what I call it? Saturday.
The modern prognosis predicts that Lincoln might have conceivably recovered enough to return to the White House to complete his second term.
Plus George W. Bush has proven that you can be President for two consecutive terms without actually having a brain, so any brain damage Lincoln could have suffered would have a negligible impact on his professional career.
Heh, mod me troll bitches, but you know it's true!
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Ah, I finally found a link to something talking about this incident
Couple of stiches on the wrist and feet.
Taking him off the cross would have helped also.
Why do i waste so much time at this site?
Lets save everyone, death is bad, hey, 140 billion alive will be fun wont it? As long as they are mainly hot gurls who want to have sex at the drop of a hat.. hurm.. i watch too much net pr0n. But seriously, the quest for longer life equates to death, we cant sustain life with 10-20-40 billion, just accept it. You have 80 years on average, enjoy it. If you are president with some slaves, you get less.
There would be a lot more than 3409 US soldiers dead in the Iraq war.
As it is, far far more of them are seriously injured, many losing one or more limbs.
Well ain't that a shot in the head!!!
Actually I think everyone is missing the point. It's not modern medicine, but modern transportation that would have made the difference.
Failure to follow this advice may result in non-deterministic behavior.
maybe, maybe not. he dreamed of his death before it happened, so who's to say anything could have saved him.
You said:
"I keep hearing this from Lincoln bashers yet they never cite a source. Seriously, enough with the talking points and show where/when he said he was not interested in freeing the slaves."
You want a source? How about Lincoln's letter to Horace Greeley where he says:
I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.
But don't take my word for it; read the letter for yourself.
But would we really want to?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Here's the way they do it today:
http://content.nejm.org/content/vol352/issue20/ima ges/large/02f2.jpeg
They can survive, but life after a severe head wound is pretty bad:
This is the war that George W. Bush got us into. I've never met a military man who could explain how he could have respect (much less vote) for a commander-in-chief who dodged the draft in Vietnam himself.
My favorite historical medical report is this psychiatric consulation with one Sam McGee.
If you could go back in time and talk to Americans in the Civil War era, the vast majority would agree that slavery was the central issue of the war. Some would say it was an economic issue in which slavery played a major role; others would see the war as the Jeffersonian yeomen's stand against Northern urbanism; still others would put it in terms of states' rights, as do their intellectual progeny even today. But in any case you'd find the most consistent, the most compelling and powerfully emotional common thread in all perspectives of the division between North and South to be the push for abolitionism.
Moreover, Lincoln himself saw slavery as inhumane and incompatible with (little-r) republican values, even if (as your quote illustrates nicely) he did not consider its abolition a moral imperative worth pursuing at the cost of turning a nation against itself. This is an old meme which has been discussed to death, and if you remain convinced otherwise, so be it. I just didn't want you to lure anyone else with this particular sexy reinterpretation of history; this is one case where the common knowledge actually gets it right.
Make Slashdot readable! See journal.
Modern trauma medicine is quite amazing. We can literally snatch people back from the jaws of death where even a decade ago they would have died.
Think about it for a moment. I'll use my city as an example. All rescue vehicles are MICU's or Mobile Intensive Care Units and they are staffed by fully trained paramedics. And average response times are 2 minutes or so in this city.
Then of course you have medicine itself. We've learned a hell of a lot from the war injured. It's the perfect testing ground for innovative procedures developed to save lives. And once it's tested and verified, it becomes practice in hospital trauma centers.
Had we not fought in WW II, Korea and Vietnam we probably wouldn't have the trauma medicine we have today. Not that I'm a war hawk or anything, but we do see benefits from it in the long run.
How is this even a story?
"If you could go back in time and talk to Americans in the Civil War era, the vast majority would agree that slavery was the central issue of the war."
That is not fact; that is pure conjecture.
I will admit that I am late to the party and have not read all of the posts on this yet. Regardless, does this matter at all? Does this change the historical fact that Lincoln did die from the wound of an assassin? How does this advance our current knowledge or adapt the interpretation of the recorded events?
Of course it does not affect any of this. There is really no scientific merit to this at all. Perhaps the tag should be "what if" rather than "science."
Let me be noted as the first person to state that my death could have been prevented with the technological advances available in 140 years from now! I will gladly accept my great posthumous honors in advance for this amazing "discovery."
I don't think modern medicine could fix a point-blank gunshot wound from a .44 cal Minié ball to the back of the head.
With the types of powders that were used in single-shot Derringers at that time, the amount of expanding burning gasses gas and burning powder that would have blasted out of the pistol after the bullet left the barrel would have done even more damage to the brain and soft tissues, especially at that range. The hot gasses and powder would have flash-cooked and surface tissues not destroyed by the initial bullet.
Even modern day fireams, which use quicker-burning powders that burn faster and more completely inside the barrel cause "tattooing" and flash-burns on the skin of someone that has been shot. Consdering that the powders used in Lincoln's time were far slower burning, and in a Derringer, the super-short barrels of that type of pistol would have ejected burning poweder long after (relative to the time of a gun to fully discharge) the bullet had left the barrel. In my experiences, guns that have shorter barrels tend to have a larger muzzle flash that guns of the same caliber that have longer barrels. A good example of this is the M38 Mosin-Nagant which, due to the shortened barrel and larger cartridge, earned the nickname "The Russian Dragon". The longer variant of the same rifle, the M44, which uses the same cartridge, has a pronounced, yet smaller muzzle flash.
The "scientist" is severely over-confident, and probably just wants to get his name in the news.
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
would (did) use polonium 210
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
These blokes have waaay to much free time on their hands - not only would such an out come be expected - but who gives a shit ! Certainly not Lincoln !
Whats next - "If DaVinci had a computer he would have designed the first airplane" ?
Its not the years, its the mileage
They weren't more civil at any point in time, except in some formal settings. We can probably say that when gentlemen met at a posh club, they weren't calling each other cocksuckers, but then again even today they still don't. Move out of that setting, though, and it wasn't some rose-coloured golden age of being nice.
For starters, in that same age, they had just fought a war over, you know, _slavery_. People were bought and sold, treated in some cases worse than cattle, and savagely whipped or occasionally executed on a whim. How's that for being nice to one's fellow humans?
And speaking of that civil war, it saw its share of such colourful characters as Bloody Bill Anderson. The guy was _proud_ of applying terror tactics and executions not only against captured soldiers, but against civillian union sympathisers too.
Newspapers had not yet discovered that it pays to at least pretend to be impartial and objective. Yeah, I know they still aren't really, but back then they didn't even bother pretending. Lopsided, inflamatory and outright insulting journalism was the order of the day. Mud-slinging and outright libel were just normal political tools.
And then you should see what they said about other races and people. If you think nowadays' coverage of Iraq was a shame, back then it was orders of magnitude worse. It was for example the age of "white man's burden" and "mission to civilize" theories, where three quarters of the globe (including such civilizations like China or Japan) were presented as worse than Neanderthals, and it was the _burden_ of us poor white guys from the west to go sneer at them and shaft them, as some civilizing mission. And that was actually the _nice_ version.
It was also the age of such things as train robberies. No, they didn't jump into the train from horseback like in the movies. They just derailed the train, lots of people died, and the survivors got robbed.
It was the age of driving the natives out of their lands, and the occasional massacre. Custer for example wasn't a gentleman soldier in the war against savages, as the media at the time presented him. He was a guy who massacred whole camps, including a good percentage of the women and children, and held the survivors hostage (again, unarmed women and children) to force the rest of the tribe to accept being pushed into a reservation.
Etc, etc, etc.
The past _never_ was as cheerfully rose coloured as naive nostalgia presents it. That goes not only for the 19'th century. The Renaissance wasn't a cheerful age, like ren faires would have you believe, but a shithole that turned the whole european culture morbid and depressive for centuries. The knights in shiny armour weren't ideals of chivalry, but... well, let's just say that one manual for knights advised them to literally beat their wives senseless (as in, literally, until she loses consciousness) to keep them in line, and to break the wife's nose so other men won't find her pretty any more. And that's just one of the many atrocities of that caste. Etc.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Rather than be elected for president, he'd probably have ended up in the slammer as an enemy combatant, what with the beared, the close-set eyes and that untrustworthy facial expression.
Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
... I would have every day fresh milk!
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
Conjecture, yes—conjecture supported by much more historical evidence than a single letter taken out of context.
Make Slashdot readable! See journal.
http://www.lneilsmith.org/abelenin.html
Lincoln introduced indiscriminate total war onto this continent and presided over
the murder of more than 600,000 people. His personal chicken did not come home
to roost soon enough. When one starts a war, one cannot expect that counterattacks
will always come at a time and place and manner of one's own choosing.
Where is Lee Harvey Oswald, now that we Really Need Him?
Julius Caesar would be alive today if modern medicine had attended to his stab woulds immediately! And Ronald Reagan too, when he was shot by that nutcase.
Oh wait- Reagan DID survive!
?? So howcum he's not alive?
- Ze Laws ov Termodynamics? BAH!
Kelvin vas a fool!
Mit Hydrogen + Pinoqachole ve can break zes laws anytime!