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How FPS Storylines Are Written

Might E. Mouse writes "Cynics might say 'Who needs a storyline for an FPS game?' and if we're talking Quake or Doom then fair enough. But to brand the entire genre as lacking in story is to condemn gems like Half-Life 2 or Chronicles of Riddick. So what goes into writing a really compelling storyline for an FPS game? bit-tech has an article exploring this topic with the likes of Martin Lancaster, writer / designer for Crysis, Rob Yescombe, writer of Haze and more: 'There's nothing wrong with that of course, back in the day Quake was amazing in its own, essentially plotless, right. But it's interesting that only recently has a push for coherently told storylines appeared among FPS fans, bought on by another few years of maturity in what is an undeniably young medium. Paintings and music have both been around since time out of mind, but computer games have only been around for a couple of decades and only recently have they begun to be recognized for the artistic merit posed by their interactivity.'"

165 comments

  1. Never been done by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've never played a FPS with a truly compelling story. Every FPS story feels totally contrived, like they were written by 12-year olds. It could be that there is a disconnect between what the writers have written and how that is implemented as the game itself, so maybe the stories are good and it's just bad execution. In any event, in my experience nobody has come very close to delivering a good compelling FPS story.

    1. Re:Never been done by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

      I've played many a FPS with a good story... just not the ones bundled with the game engine on disc.

    2. Re:Never been done by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 1

      It's not a medium that lends it's self well to stories. The best you can do is half life 2 but then you end up with story bits in set places which just leave you bored after the first place through. The other alternative involves way too much text and is totally avoidable if you want it to be.

      --
      I like muppets.
    3. Re:Never been done by giorgiofr · · Score: 4, Informative

      Holy cow, you have missed out big time. Get Deus Ex immediately. Later move on to Half-Life 1 and 2. And there are probably other ones that I don't remember.

      --
      Global warming is a cube.
    4. Re:Never been done by Dysfnctnl85 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Have you played Max Payne or Max Payne 2? Incredibly compelling storylines -- nothing has even come close since.

    5. Re:Never been done by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Get Deus Ex immediately. Later move on to Half-Life 1 and 2. Deus Ex is a definite yes. HL has good cinematic elements to it in the form of scripted events, but I don't know that you can necessarily say it has a great story. I can't comment on HL2, as I haven't played it. Halo is so-so, but the crowning gem of FPS stories has to be Marathon.
      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    6. Re:Never been done by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

      How about Metroid Prime? Not a "story" per se, but the space pirate logs available through the scan visor are plenty interesting

    7. Re:Never been done by Popadopolis · · Score: 1

      Have you perhaps played Deus Ex, Half Life (1 & 2), Riddick, Far Cry, or even SiN?

    8. Re:Never been done by Andre_PC · · Score: 0

      I would recommend Clive Barker's Undying. It's a great horror game that has a nice compelling story.

    9. Re:Never been done by immcintosh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm not sure I would describe any of those storylines as "truly compelling" in the sens in which the GP poster is speaking. Deux Ex, I would say, stepped above the level of contrived garbage written for a 12-year old to more of a trashy sci-fi fan-fic level of quality. Half-life 1 and 2 had great atmosphere, but their stories were really nothing special. Half-life 1 especially was just your run of the mill save-the-world-from-aliens bit. Half-life 2, while it had its good points along the way, I found was totally ruined by an absolutely absurd deus ex machina resolution; it really ruined the whole thing for me.

    10. Re:Never been done by cromar · · Score: 1

      I really enjoyed the story in the Marathon series. The game is spooky to begin with and the story drew me in even more.

    11. Re:Never been done by Altus · · Score: 1
      Marathon was pretty good at this. I mean, no great work of literature sure, but if you read all the terminals it was pretty easy to follow the story and if you dug deeper you could get more out of it.

      Admittedly nothing in the story explained why key switches in the ship were located on the far side of pools of lava (or some other deadly fluid) but whatever. My friends and I always used to joke that you wouldn't want to be the guy who had to retrieve faxes on the Marathon. "But boss, the last guy you sent to get that fax fell into a pool or reactor runoff, couldn't we put a fax machine closer to the office?

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    12. Re:Never been done by east+coast · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It would be nice for you to lend a bit of insight into what you have an have not played. To be honest, if you break down even the most epic of tales eventually everything sounds like it was written by 12 year olds. This actually works to the advantage games with storylines in general...

      You ever played Alice or Undying? Fantastic games with great visuals in their day. The great thing about the story lines was that you could make it make as much of a difference in the game as you wanted. Didn't give a damn about poor Alice being in an institution and suicidal? Ok, just chop something up with this knife. Don't give a damn about the Covenant family and the Undying back story? The game still gladly leads you by the nose as long as you don't get sloppy and get yourself killed.

      Of how about Thief? Potentially the most immersive atmosphere and story line to ever be pumped into on series. But does the story line make a big difference in achieving your goals on a mission by mission basis? Not really. Not unless you want to be Garrett.

      You see, that's another thing about it all. If you don't want to be in the game it's not going to have an effect on you. Just like a book, if you read a book but put no life into the story itself you're just going to see strings of words. Maybe you don't have the type of imagination that it takes to put yourself in the shoes of the shooter. If you simply don't care enough that's fine too but don't act like someone didn't put effort into the end product other then yourself.

      If you're going to walk around with your nose in the air to FPS story lines don't act like the game didn't do what it was suppose to do. There is no truely passive entertainment. Every medium for story telling requires at least a smidgen of effort from the spectator in order for it to work for everyone.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    13. Re:Never been done by CommunistHamster · · Score: 1
      Far Cry had an absurd (to the point of almost being self mocking) action film plot, which was certainly not deep or compelling. The mercs shouted such intellectual gems as "I'm gonna shoot you in the FACE!".

      As a game though, it was terrific fun. Even if the late-level enemies were stupidly tough.

    14. Re:Never been done by theStorminMormon · · Score: 1

      "It's not a medium that lends it's self well to stories."

      I disagree. People are just doing it wrong. The lure of interactive story-telling has destroyed the potential to tell good stories with the FPS genre. Interactive story-telling, if it ever works, will require either AI or dedicated human game-masters (like D&D). And honestly, how often has D&D even been good story telling?

      If the focus was more on good plot development, good dialog, and believable characters we'd be way ahead of where we are. FPS has had way to much emphasis on graphics. That's like having a play where all anyone cares about is the costumes and the sets. And so FPS has some AMAZING costumes and sets. We can get there with the dialog, plot, and characters. We just haven't yet.

      --
      The Southern Baptist Convention has creationism. On Slashdot, we have porn.
    15. Re:Never been done by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      All this means is that you've never played:

      Pathways Into Darkness
      Marathon series
      System Shock 2
      Thief series
      Halo/Halo 2 (especially Halo 2)

      Now, you're right that most FPS games have crummy stories. Gears of War and Half-Life 2 disappointed me, since they tell you basically nothing about how the world you're in came to be. The story of Lost Planet was predictable and loaded with cliches. But there are good ones out there, and you're doing the genre a disservice by dismissing it out of hand. There are a lot of really terrible monster movies out there, too, but for every "The Relic" there's a "Alien."

    16. Re:Never been done by morari · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Deus Ex is an RPG, thus the compelling story. Just because it has some shooting and is in a first person perspective doesn't make it any more a FPS than Morrowind is. And the Half-Life series barely has a story, it keeps everything vague and shrouded in mystery (which did NOT help the sequel).

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    17. Re:Never been done by theStorminMormon · · Score: 1

      Deus Ex is a definite yes.

      Haven't played it.

      HL has good cinematic elements to it in the form of scripted events, but I don't know that you can necessarily say it has a great story. I can't comment on HL2

      That's being kind. Half life was not a good story. Period. Neither one nor two. It had a good plot - in terms of events - but very, very little in terms of character growth or personal interaction. There was no drama. The potential to tell a story was there, but we need more focus on the *people* in the narrative. All good stories, in the end, are about people.

      Halo is so-so, but the crowning gem of FPS stories has to be Marathon.

      I haven't played Marathon, but I have played Halo and consider it the best FPS yet from that angle. The most important element was Master Chief's relationship to Cortana. It wasn't Shakespeare, but there actually *was* a relationship. Not one that was told, but one that was shown throughout. It went beyond mere banter especially in the closing moments of Halo 2.

      FPS needs to learn from big brothers novel, movie, and film. I think the novel is the best example, however, because novels can be written from first-person perspective as well (e.g. the popular Dresden Files by Jim Butcher) A first-person novel is the best prototype for developing story in a FPS, although I think character studies (e.g. Serenity) could be great models as well.

      --
      The Southern Baptist Convention has creationism. On Slashdot, we have porn.
    18. Re:Never been done by theStorminMormon · · Score: 1

      "The great thing about the story lines was that you could make it make as much of a difference in the game as you wanted. Didn't give a damn about poor Alice being in an institution and suicidal? Ok, just chop something up with this knife. Don't give a damn about the Covenant family and the Undying back story? The game still gladly leads you by the nose as long as you don't get sloppy and get yourself killed."

      That's another way of saying "they had no storyline". Do novels require input to have good storylines? No. We identify with characters who are sympathetic even though we can't influence them in any way. I think the whole "make your own story" is the reason that most FPS have the literary content of a "choose your own adventure" book.

      Does anyone stop to realize why CYOA books never rose above 5th grade reading level? It's the same reason that "interactive" story lines won't either. The simplest explanation is this: Americans believe in character-driven stories (as oppose to plot-driven stories like the Illiad or the Odyssey). As a result you have to have good characterization and explain how the plot is advanced by the characters being who they are.

      To take the main character and just say "oh, that's the actual human playing the game" is to eviscerate the entire plot. The plot has to be advanced by that person, but if we let them choose "meh, save the girl" or "rape the girl" or "ignore the girl", etc. then we basically end up writing 3 stories. Per every major decision. It's combinatorial explosion.

      Instead the objective should be to show a protagonist who is sympathetic so that the player wants to participate in the action of the game. Sound impossible? It's what every novelist has to do to write an enjoyable novel.

      --
      The Southern Baptist Convention has creationism. On Slashdot, we have porn.
    19. Re:Never been done by nomadic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Get Deus Ex immediately. Later move on to Half-Life 1 and 2. And there are probably other ones that I don't remember.

      Thief 1 and 2, and even 3 is decent, though not as good as the others. Extremely well-written fantasy, far better than most of the stuff that makes it to the fantasy section in the bookstores.

    20. Re:Never been done by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ok, before you say ANYTHING about story in FPS games, you need to play Marathon, System Shock 2, Chronicles of Riddick, Thief, or anything more substantial than Half-Life and Halo. (To pre-empt the obvious question: the Chronicles of Riddick videogame is about 10 times better than the movie, which sucked.)

      You're basically sitting here telling us that all movies are terrible, but all you've ever seen is Weekend At Bernie's. Watch some Kubrick films, then come back and tell me all movies are terrible, and I might lend your opinion a little weight.

    21. Re:Never been done by Trojan35 · · Score: 1

      I have to say the Marathon universe had the best storyline of any games I've played. Marathon: Durandal will be on XBL soon, although I highly recommend the entire library if you're going for story.

    22. Re:Never been done by j235 · · Score: 1

      My favorite:
      "Aran's Power Suit technology remains a mystery, especially the curious Morph Ball function. All attempts at duplicating it have ended in disaster: four test subjects were horribly broken and twisted when they engaged our Morph Ball prototypes. Science Team wisely decided to move on afterward."

    23. Re:Never been done by j235 · · Score: 1

      Except they're not FPS games.

    24. Re:Never been done by hal9000(jr) · · Score: 1

      That's another way of saying "they had no storyline".

      You missed the point of the parent post which is players could complete the games without paying attention to the story-line, which is totally different than saying "There is no story-line."

      I have played Deus-Ex, I am working my way through Invisible Wars, I have also played HL and HL-2, episode One, Mech Warrior, and others. The only games in that list that I think have a reasonable story line that is required to understand to have fun in the game is Deus-Ex. I pretty much plowed my way through the others and had a blast. The notion that HL has a story line is laughable to me. But then again, I may not get it and others might.

      I used to play flight sims and Falcon 4 is my favorite. That is a somewhat dynamic story line that you participate in by selecting missions. succedding or Failing in a mission alters the game play and the effects are told through news annoucements and debreifings. Is it required to read the story line to enjoy Falcon 4? Probbaly not, flying is just as much fun. but in a campaign that can last weeks, the story does drive things forward.

      I think FPS's could be more engaging with a good story line, but it needs to be told through multiple media types.

    25. Re:Never been done by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 3, Funny

      Also try Minesweeper and Tetris.

    26. Re:Never been done by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

      Yeah, sometimes they can get pretty lame though, like the likes of "we lost x powerup in the y cage. need to requisition z weapon/strategy to defeat y and regain z" .. 'inadvertantly' giving samus the info she needs to kill y.

    27. Re:Never been done by C0rinthian · · Score: 1

      If you can't/don't want to play Marathon, you can read the transcripts from the game at http://marathon.bungie.org/story/

      There is a LOT of commentary there too.

    28. Re:Never been done by east+coast · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's another way of saying "they had no storyline". Do novels require input to have good storylines? No.

      What bullshit. The input a novel requires is for the reader to put emotion into a bunch of words. Without that fiction is a meaningless waste of time. Or are you suggesting that any story telling can be successful regardless of the observer? If you think that you're even more full of shit then what I originally thought.

      We identify with characters who are sympathetic even though we can't influence them in any way.

      Yeah, the big difference is influence. That doesn't mean that there can't be a story line.

      I think the whole "make your own story" is the reason that most FPS have the literary content of a "choose your own adventure" book.

      Only if you want to look at it in that way. You, like the OP fit into my idea that you simply don't want more so you don't get more. No different then the types of people who choose the Cliff's Notes versions of books. Oh well, no loss to me.

      Does anyone stop to realize why CYOA books never rose above 5th grade reading level? It's the same reason that "interactive" story lines won't either. The simplest explanation is this: Americans believe in character-driven stories (as oppose to plot-driven stories like the Illiad or the Odyssey).

      Oh, so now this is an American problem. I just love the bashers.

      It's also fantastic the the two toothpicks that you've used as legs for your argument are both over 2600 years old and most people today can't relate to the culture and history of the times. Do you ever stop to think that may be why they're kind of brushed off today and that it has nothing to do with the idea that it's "Americans" being the problem? While the Iliad and the Odyssey may be great they're also a large investment of time to read properly. Just like the video games being mentioned they take a bit of effort to enjoy fully. Given their age and the language barriers they're more pursuits instead of simple entertainment. That's not to say that there is anything wrong with that but you're talking about a different level of literature where it goes from leisure to a serious pastime. These video games, on the other hand, do not require as much of an investment and are often more interesting as they deal with subject matter that is easier for the play to recognize.

      To take the main character and just say "oh, that's the actual human playing the game" is to eviscerate the entire plot. The plot has to be advanced by that person, but if we let them choose "meh, save the girl" or "rape the girl" or "ignore the girl", etc. then we basically end up writing 3 stories. Per every major decision. It's combinatorial explosion.

      If making decisions are that big of a deal to you perhaps you shouldn't be playing video games at all.

      If you think that making yourself a participant in the action in some form "eviscerates the entire plot" perhaps you should be mingling with people in public either. It's really sad that you probably take it so hard that people putting themselves into a dialog somehow ruins it for you.

      Instead the objective should be to show a protagonist who is sympathetic so that the player wants to participate in the action of the game. Sound impossible? It's what every novelist has to do to write an enjoyable novel.

      Actually, it doesn't sound impossible. It doesn't even sound hard to be honest.

      I let people participate on whatever level they choose. They don't have to follow my vision to every detail to make it rewarding for me. I don't think people ruin anything by seeing things they want to see it.

      If anything it sucks that you can't let these things unfold for people on their own terms. Again, no loss to me.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    29. Re:Never been done by bigbigbison · · Score: 1

      I don't remember much of anything about the story of Deus Ex.

      I've played the original Half-Life all the way through at least 2 times but it wasn't because of the story. I replayed it not because it is a great story but because it is fun to play. What exactly is the story in Half-Life? Aliens are invading. The government is trying to kill everyone to cover it up.

      --
      http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
    30. Re:Never been done by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Personally, I think it's very possible to have a good story line. Just look at Metroid Prime. It has a pretty good story line. There's some people who say it's not an FPS, but it's from the first person perspective (for the most part), and I'm shooting things, so I'm not really sure what's missing from the equation. Maybe because they make you jump and solve puzzles and stuff, and don't spend your whole time just shooting bad guys, some people think it isn't an FPS. But as far as I can see, it is.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    31. Re:Never been done by Broken+scope · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Your comment about the human dungeon master something I have thought about.

      Imagine a game world styled like EvE, just as large, and just as expansive. Now smash together EvE and planetside. Space ships in space, marines on the ground and fighters and bombers in air and space. Now of course the game should start off structured. You want to be a marine, you join your respective factions AI or possibly human/employee/game master controlled military. Your opening story denotes a time of peace, and thus your initial job as a player is to do thinks like eliminate a pirate base inside your factions space. Now you could be the only player within your group of 20 marines, or you could be leading a fire team of 9 other players or 4 players and 5 ai marines. So you get your "briefing" from an Ai mission dispenser who is a superior officer.

      So you and your buddies or your men or you by yourself go towards the mission. Well you can't attack a pirate base with just your transport, so you get matched up with either some Ai fighter pilots or a mixture of players and Ai. The problem is, the pirate base is in an asteroid belt that is about 4Au away from your assigned station. Well you need a ship with jump drives to get there so you and your fighters get loaded onto a small corvette that might have an AI crew with some humans, or it could just be a single Ai Captain with an Ai crew.
      Then you attack your target and hopefully win, if you lead enough successful operations, the men below, above, and beside you could also note you for leadership, thus allowing you to move up in the ranks.

      Say you don't want to be part of the military, say you want to be a miner or an explorer, you would start out in your respective structure and work you way up. Slowly as players moved up in the structure, you would allow them to take over things to an extent. You wouldn't give complete control over a factions military to a single player, though you could allow them into the very upper echelons of power. There will be people who stay within their factions structure, and those that abandon it for their own structure of choice, they could even make their own.

      Slowly let the players take control, then after say 2 month of play just long enough to let people get into it introduce some chaos using your game masters (Think of them as a race of loki like aliens, make them killable too, cause frankly the hunting them would be neat), have a major NPC leader get assassinated by what looks like the other faction, put another NPC in or let a player take those reins, then let the war begin.

      Do what you think you need to do to keep the game going, assassinate, impersonate, and manipulate.

      Let the players write the story. It's rather interesting what happens sometimes.

      Now if only computers could do this now..

      --
      You mad
    32. Re:Never been done by 2names · · Score: 2, Funny

      You have just described a game that I would like to play. Please let me know when you start the BETA, as I would like to be a tester.

      --
      "I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
    33. Re:Never been done by Descalzo · · Score: 1

      How did I not know there was a Chronicles of Riddick game? For some reason (I still don't know why) I loved that movie.

      --
      I cried real tears when Li Mu Bai died.
    34. Re:Never been done by MenTaLguY · · Score: 1

      Yeah, those were pretty cool, and some were really entertaining. They definitely are trying to do storytelling through the logs and lore scans in both MP1 and MP2, as well as dropping lots of storytelling clues in the design of the environments you explore.

      Sadly (particularly in the Chozo and Luminoth lore) the logbook scans suffer from the same problem as many video games: when it comes to writing in-game text, the writers sound like pretentious English majors (Tycho of Penny Arcade is the most extreme example of this, though I think he's being deliberate about it). Even the dialogue in Shadow of the Colossus, a game with great overall storytelling, suffers a lot that way.

      --

      DNA just wants to be free...
    35. Re:Never been done by Broken+scope · · Score: 2, Funny

      All I've got is the design document... and a dream... that one day..

      Wait Im at work, I don't have time for the next part. With any luck I'll call you sometimes in the next 10 years.

      --
      You mad
    36. Re:Never been done by theStorminMormon · · Score: 1

      I have read through pretty much the entire story line. It looks very deep, but there's just no way to really judge how it was presented without playing the game. The potential is certainly there, I just don't know about execution.

      It's like reading the outline to a novel. If the outline sucks, the novel probably does too. But if the outline's great (as with Maraton) the novel might still suck.

      --
      The Southern Baptist Convention has creationism. On Slashdot, we have porn.
    37. Re:Never been done by theStorminMormon · · Score: 1

      "Ok, before you say ANYTHING about story in FPS games,..."

      Hey, I was just commenting based on my observations. I didn't think I was trying to tell everyone "this is how all FPS games, ever, are".

      I'll try out some of those games. I've seen Thief. It looked OK. Marathon I've read through, but it's a pain to try and actually get the game to run on anything. I don't know about System Shock 2 or Chronicles of Riddick.

      --
      The Southern Baptist Convention has creationism. On Slashdot, we have porn.
    38. Re:Never been done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can download the entire game including official modding tools (tools are Classic Mac OS only) from Bungie's site now. You can play it on Mac, Windows or even Linux using Aleph One. You can also download high res textures and updates that make the weapons look really awesome when they fire, particularly the fusion pistol. I recently replayed all three on my big screen TV using my Linux PVR box and I've even been considering making my own levels on an old Mac I have in the basement just for fun.

    39. Re:Never been done by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. I wasn't really trying to single you out, but it seems that there's a lot of people who talk crap about games when they have very little experience with them.

      Marathon runs good on Macs using the Aleph One open source engine, and I think the Map, Sound, Physics, etc files were made free some time ago. (At least, I downloaded them for free from a Bungie site, but I don't know if they are still up, or if it was a limited-time thing.) I haven't tried it on Windows.

    40. Re:Never been done by theStorminMormon · · Score: 1

      The input a novel requires is for the reader to put emotion into a bunch of words.

      That's obviously not really "input". I mean input in the sense of "data that goes into the system and changes what comes out". Reading a novel doesn't change the words on the page. The work exists independent of what a reader thinks. You can appreciate a novel more or less based on input (in the sense of emotional investment) but not change the work itself.

      You, like the OP fit into my idea that you simply don't want more so you don't get more.

      If you invent your own storyline in a sand-box style game than that's great. But I thought we were talking about the storyline that is part of the FPS as it is created, not whether or not someone can come along and impose their own storyline on a blank slate. If that's what you're doing then great, but it's the difference between writing a novel and reading a novel.

      Oh, so now this is an American problem. I just love the bashers.

      It's not an "America problem". Just an observation. We like character-driven stories. There's nothing wrong with that. I like character driven stories. I find the Illiad and the Odyssey really hard to get into for precisely that reason.

      Maybe you thought that since my counterexamples were stereotypical classics that I meant that plot-driven narrative is better. I don't mean that at all. It's just different. I happen to not like it.

      I think that pretty much dispatches the rest of your ready-to-bake anti-bashing comments. There simply wan't any America-bashing going on.

      If you think that making yourself a participant in the action in some form "eviscerates the entire plot" perhaps you should be mingling with people in public either. It's really sad that you probably take it so hard that people putting themselves into a dialog somehow ruins it for you.

      I don't think you really understood my logic. Can you try reading it again without your trigger-happy anti-bashing reflex? What I'm saying is pretty simple. In American culture these days we like a plot where the action is driven by believable characters acting according to their internal desires, beliefs, attitudes, etc. So if one of your characters is paranoid he will move the plot forward by doing paranoid things. You can't swap him out with a relaxed character because than the relaxed character doing the things the paranoid character did would seem out-of-chararcter. If the drama is plot-driven the whole idea of "character" is not as important, but in a character-driven plot this is a big deal.

      Now imagine that instead of a bit character who's paranoid you have a story that's written about the main character who is motivated by honor. (I'm simplifying here.) So the protagonist does x, y and z because they are trying to be honorable and all the other characters react to x, y and z according to their characterization and you've got a plot.

      Now if you just rip out that main character and stick in a player who can act according to honor, or maybe according to sadism, or maybe according to boredom suddenly either it makes no sense for the protagonist to do x, y, and z or they actually don't do x, y and z. Either way you have a big problem. If they don't do x, y and z you have to have the NPCs react to the new actions according to their own character. If you limit what the protagonist can do and do a lot of scripting for all eventualities, you can get it to work but it's really hard and will probably seem a bit rushed. Otherwise, you just have ruined the plot because now characters are doing things out of character.

      That's what it means when I say plugging a player into the protagonist's role eviscerates the plot.

      As far as your personal attacks re: "making decision" go, I don't even know what to say. I love to make decisions when I do my own writing. But when I'm reading a book I am enjoying the decisions the author has made. I love games like Civilization where I make my own narrativ

      --
      The Southern Baptist Convention has creationism. On Slashdot, we have porn.
    41. Re:Never been done by Mortanius · · Score: 1

      American cinema peaked with Weekend at Bernie's...

      Sadly, the sequel just didn't have the same charm.

    42. Re:Never been done by theStorminMormon · · Score: 1

      Marathon runs good on Macs using the Aleph One open source engine, and I think the Map, Sound, Physics, etc files were made free some time ago.

      I'll check it out on my macbook pro. I don't think I had a mac last time I tried to run Marathon (I know I tried it on XP, not OS X).

      --
      The Southern Baptist Convention has creationism. On Slashdot, we have porn.
    43. Re:Never been done by MenTaLguY · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'll take that back about Shadow of the Colossus; looking over a game script I guess it wasn't too bad, at least if the intent was to use the traditional plural/singular T-V distinction in English to convey differences in formality in the original Japanese subtitles (in which case Dormin's use of "we" would be the "royal we"). They did still misuse -st endings a lot.

      --

      DNA just wants to be free...
    44. Re:Never been done by Ryan+Amos · · Score: 1

      MMO Halo?

      Don't think that MS probably isn't planning this...

    45. Re:Never been done by nuzak · · Score: 1

      > Americans believe in character-driven stories (as oppose to plot-driven stories like the Illiad or the Odyssey)

      Uh, the Iliad wasn't character-driven? The whole epic was driven by larger-than-life characters, and padded out by grandiloquent speeches by the same. And its sequel, the Odyssey, is freaking named after its central character.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    46. Re:Never been done by Broken+scope · · Score: 1

      Why would it have to be halo? Actually, most people couldn't do the math to make a decent halo capital ship battle. Not to mention that one shot destroying your big ship would make many people cry and be really bitchy.

      --
      You mad
    47. Re:Never been done by I+Like+Pudding · · Score: 1

      My favorite: "It's that guy in the shirt!"

    48. Re:Never been done by theStorminMormon · · Score: 1

      Uh, the Iliad wasn't character-driven? The whole epic was driven by larger-than-life characters, and padded out by grandiloquent speeches by the same.

      Exactly. "Larger than life". E.g. not very realistic. Did you see character development? Nope. That's part of what I'm talking about.

      And its sequel, the Odyssey, is freaking named after its central character. ...? So if a work is named after a person it must be person-driven?

      --
      The Southern Baptist Convention has creationism. On Slashdot, we have porn.
    49. Re:Never been done by nuzak · · Score: 1

      I'll grant that the characters in the Iliad were archetypes, but I still don't concede for the Odyssey, which really does delve into Odysseus's motivations and flaws throughout. He may not be Just Plain Folks, but he's very much a fleshed-out character.

      Anyway, I'm still not buying the notion that we're into characters over plots. Most hit movies are driven by (usually inane) plots with characters that exist to further its tension and resolution. Character stories like Magnolia and Garden State are the minority.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    50. Re:Never been done by localman · · Score: 1

      Does anyone stop to realize why CYOA books never rose above 5th grade reading level?

      More or less the same genre, yet some of Infocom's titles surpassed this by a long shot. Try "Trinity" or "A Mind Forever Voyaging".

      And in general I strongly disagree that storytelling is a one way street. The effort of the audience matters. Absolutely every story ever told, regardless of medium, can have someone in the audience who tunes out and says at the conclusion "that sucked". Art is communication. In communication you need a sender and a receiver. Without both it's not communication and it's not art.

      Cheers.

    51. Re:Never been done by zussal · · Score: 1

      Riddick was a good one, although FPS purists may not like the game I thought it was very fun and had much replay value.

    52. Re:Never been done by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      Switching to 3rd person may make it technically not an FPS, but it's still the same thing.

      Hell, many "first person shooters" allow one to switch to a 3rd person view, but that doesn't change their genre.

    53. Re:Never been done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does anyone stop to realize why CYOA books never rose above 5th grade reading level? It's the same reason that "interactive" story lines won't either. The simplest explanation is this: Americans believe in character-driven stories (as oppose to plot-driven stories like the Illiad or the Odyssey). As a result you have to have good characterization and explain how the plot is advanced by the characters being who they are. No, the crucial difference here is not the audience. It's the medium. Though FPS is still a new medium, it is much more similar in form to drama (play, movie, opera) than to an epic poem or novel. (CYOA are more like a short story.) For drama, it is good for the unity of plot to have a comparatively restricted scope of action.

      But you don't have to take my word for it.

      One should also remember what has been said more than once, and not write a tragedy on an epic body of incident (i.e. one with a plurality of stories in it), by attempting to dramatize, for instance, the entire story of the _Iliad_. In the epic owing to its scale every part is treated at proper length; with a drama, however, on the same story the result is very disappointing. This is shown by the fact that all who have dramatized the fall of Ilium in its entirety, and not part by part, like Euripides, or the whole of the Niobe story, instead of a portion, like Aeschylus, either fail utterly or have but ill success on the stage; for that and that alone was enough to ruin a play by Agathon. Yet in their Peripeties, as also in their simple plots, the poets I mean show wonderful skill in aiming at the kind of effect they desire--a tragic situation that arouses the human feeling in one, like the clever villain (e.g. Sisyphus) deceived, or the brave wrongdoer worsted. (Aristotle, Poetics.)
    54. Re:Never been done by AgentPaper · · Score: 1

      Sadly (particularly in the Chozo and Luminoth lore) the logbook scans suffer from the same problem as many video games: when it comes to writing in-game text, the writers sound like pretentious English majors...

      To be fair, though, the Chozo and the Luminoth come off as pretty pretentious people throughout the games, sometimes verging into total asshattery (U-Mos, I'm looking at you), so it would make sense that their lores sound like Holy Writ. The GFMC and the Pirate entries were much more down-to-earth (see also: 'If [SPC Angseth] wants to believe in Bigfoot, or Santa Claus, or Samus Aran, that's fine,' 'Do not feed the metroids,' 'Science Team thinks metroids can be domesticated - I think Science Team has vapor for brains,' etc).

      Just once, I'd like to see a Chozo Lore where they gripe about Hatchling blowing up every Chozo ruin she sets foot in. You have to think that's got to tick them off eventually...

      --
      First rule of trauma: Bleeding always stops.
    55. Re:Never been done by GaryPatterson · · Score: 1

      You should look up the Marathon series, by Bungie. Although the graphics are dated now, the plots were light enough to allow fun gameplay, but deep enough to allow extended analysis ( http://marathon.bungie.org/Story/ )

      I think they're good examples of getting it right in an industry that too often says "why bother with a reason to do stuff?"

    56. Re:Never been done by theStorminMormon · · Score: 1

      I'll grant that the characters in the Iliad were archetypes, but I still don't concede for the Odyssey, which really does delve into Odysseus's motivations and flaws throughout. He may not be Just Plain Folks, but he's very much a fleshed-out character.

      Let's see if I can explain a bit better. I'm not saying that they didn't have any well-drawn characters necessarily (although that's frequently a by-product of plot-driven narrative) but the real hallmark is that the events are frequently driven regardless of character motivation. Consider Greek tragedy - where the downfall is inescapable. Even in the Odyssey most of what happens is stuff that happens to Ulysses. A ship driven around by the gods is the perfect example of plot-driven narrative. Although I will certainly grant it's not a black-and-white issue.

      Anyway, I'm still not buying the notion that we're into characters over plots. Most hit movies are driven by (usually inane) plots with characters that exist to further its tension and resolution. Character stories like Magnolia and Garden State are the minority.

      This is a great point, but it's kind of exactly what I'm saying. What do we consider to be good stuff? Magnolia and Garden State. That's what we care about. That's what we consider art. If we're seriously talking about narrative in FPS than do we want to aim for "Lost in Translation" or "Bad Boys II"? We produce a lot of plot-driven stuff, but generally don't consider it art.

      Now obviously an FPS is going to need some action. "Lost in Translation" doesn't really work as an FPS. But "The Last Samurai" might. I'm not saying it's a masterpiece, but it's a film that has action and is character driven.

      Keep in mind that if we are going to use FPS to tell stories we could have told in a novel or a film we're wasting our time. Different media lends itself to different narratives. I think we can learn from novels and films, but I'm not saying we can just take a movie and stick it in a video game. I'm saying that as we ponder how to tell great stories in FPS (which is something I hope we get to) we can apply lessons learned form older mediums of expression.

      --
      The Southern Baptist Convention has creationism. On Slashdot, we have porn.
    57. Re:Never been done by theStorminMormon · · Score: 1

      And in general I strongly disagree that storytelling is a one way street. The effort of the audience matters.

      That's not what I'm saying. When an author sits down to write a story is it a one-way street? Yes. Novels are written with very little (if any) collaboration. When a story is READ than the reader invests their time and emotion into the story. So we've got separate creating the work from presenting/experiencing the work.

      In the creation phase it is more or less unilateral. And I'm advocating that's how it should be for FPS that are going to be story based. You've got to write the story as a novel. When the player plays, that's a kind of input, but the story is already written and doesn't change.

      If you *do* change the story 'at run time' you run into the problems I enumerated to the previous poster. Without AI it's impossible (the computer won't be able to get NPCs to react in human-like ways to unpredictable actions/decisions of the player). Even with humans the best you can do is improv. Which makes for great comedy (Who's Line is it Anyway?) but it's hard to imagine high drama from improv. (Sorry, all you LARPers. I'd prefer Shakespeare.)

      --
      The Southern Baptist Convention has creationism. On Slashdot, we have porn.
    58. Re:Never been done by antic · · Score: 1

      Stray a tiny bit from an FPS to 3PS for GTA: San Andreas. Nothing outrageous storywise, but there was at least a bit of meat to it here and there. Some decent characters. Surprised to not see it mentioned at least tangentially.

      --
      'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
    59. Re:Never been done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't that be a third-person shooter?

    60. Re:Never been done by grumbel · · Score: 1

      ### Just look at Metroid Prime. It has a pretty good story line.

      One that is told through a bunch of post-its that are all over the world and is almost completly disconnected from actual gameplay. Heck, I played through the whole game and couldn't tell you a thing about what was going on in that story, since I simply had zero interest to actually read that post-it mess. If that is good storytelling, they better just print all that stuff out, bundle it into a book and ship that with a game. From good storytelling in a game, I expect it to actually happen in the game, not in the pause screen.

    61. Re:Never been done by Glendale2x · · Score: 1

      Marathon was the first FPS I ever played on my Quadra 610 back in the day. I loved the story, reading the terminals, trying to find hidden terminals to put more pieces of the puzzle together. It was like reading a book, but more engaging due to the presentation. You'll hate Marathon if you just want to blow things up and be done with it, but if you love a good story, it's golden. Imagine the environment they could do with today's desktop processing power and the same story. Although I think by playing the Marathon series, FPS gaming was ruined for me because I expected much more. All the PC gamers who raved about how great Half-Life was are right - it was the best FPS with a story they had probably seen - but I'd already seen better. I still enjoyed Half-Life, but I always expected something better.

      I love Deus Ex. Enough to buy it off Steam and I'm playing through it again right now. It's a long game, especially if you do every secondary mission and explore everything you can get to like I do, but it's worth it. Never played the second one because I didn't want to be disappointed. Halo was a mere shadow of what Marathon was, and I played it only because it was from the people that made Marathon. Is it a good console shooter? It's okay... but that's about it.

      --
      this is my sig
    62. Re:Never been done by localman · · Score: 1

      I see your point -- and a fully open ended improv story has perhaps yet to be done in a compelling way. But I'll still maintain that puzzle solving along a track has been done well by Infocom.

      When an author sits down to write a story is it a one-way street?

      Yes, with regards to the audience, and I take your point.

      Somewhat unrelated I'd still say that even sitting down to write a story is just another episode in the back-and-forth between an artist and the world, who is, ultimately, the audience.

      But again, I do see what you're saying :)

    63. Re:Never been done by dysfunct · · Score: 1

      If you don't know it already, you might want to check out Face of Mankind. They already implement a subset (albeit small one) of your ideas. For instance, there's many factions (police, military, mining, mercs, etc) where players can gain ranks within the faction (not really automated but set by higher players) and control the missions and the story line.

      --
      :/- spoon(_).
    64. Re:Never been done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      even better!

      Bungie should make it bound to the Mac!
      What >.>

    65. Re:Never been done by donaldm · · Score: 1

      Most FPS games I have played have a very simple story, basically "If it moves shoot it", "If it does not move shoot it anyway". If the FPS has a story it normally is that of a B grade Science Fiction movie where the Earth or some planet that humans have landed on has been invaded and you are the only one (well maybe a few friends) can save the human race or your squad or something like that.

      Sounds rather silly I know but FPS's are extremely popular and IMHO are a real adrenaline rush for at least an hour or so (at least for me). Where the FPS game really comes into it's own is in on-line games where you compete against real people. Of course this does not appeal to some and that is fair enough as well.

      Personally I get bored very quickly with FPS games mainly because (to me) there is little if any story, but can play a "first person perspective" (FPP) game which is different from a RTS game being normally an RPG or action adventure game with a good story for hours. I have played some real stinkers as well but not for long. My latest FPP game is "Oblivion" and I find this a very interesting and fun game because it has a good story although it can be difficult to find one at times because of the numerous side-quests which can cause you to loose track as to what is going on, still you can play it so many different ways.

      For some people the RTS is the best game in town and who cares about the story. For others like me I prefer a story (preferably a good one) and to take my time in a game.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
    66. Re:Never been done by drb_chimaera · · Score: 1

      It's not got anything to do with the movie, bar the central character - Its part of the series 'Chronicles of Riddick' rather than that particular film. It's in fact set before Pitch Black in the Slam prison where he gets his eyes. It's subtitled Escape from Butcher Bay and is *well* worth checking out. (Available on XBox and PC IIRC)

    67. Re:Never been done by steveo777 · · Score: 1

      Actually, that poses an interesting question. To me, at least. When does one go from FPS to platformer? Max Payne was clearly a FPS with some very interesting platform aspects like bullet time. But, what would you classify Tomb Raider? Platformer for all the jumping, climbing, and acrobatics? Or FPS for all the shooting? I don't personally play Tomb Raider, but I do wonder where the split is.

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
    68. Re:Never been done by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      I'd say it's the emphasis on precise jumping and other acrobatics.

      Look at it this way: Max Payne would have been the same game in first person mode. The only things lost would be a bit of the "cool" factor, and the ability to exploit the 3rd-person camera to look around corners. Would it be as fun? No. Would it still work? Yeah. The 3rd person view was chiefly for stylistic rather than gameplay reasons.

      Tomb Raider would be unplayable in 1st-person mode.

      To me, that's the difference.

    69. Re:Never been done by godfra · · Score: 1

      I quite liked "Deus Ex: Invisible War" as well, though it didn't do as well as the original. The plot worked for me!

    70. Re:Never been done by CRiMSON · · Score: 1

      Cause it's not a fps?

      --
      oogly boogly!
    71. Re:Never been done by Baby+Duck · · Score: 1

      I would like to give my kudos to the Thief trilogy, as well. The very end of Thief 3 making it full circle was truly beautiful.

      --

      "Love heals scars love left." -- Henry Rollins

    72. Re:Never been done by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Actually, most people couldn't do the math to make a decent halo capital ship battle. That's why they hire game programmers - doing the hard math so the game player doesn't have to.

      Not to mention that one shot destroying your big ship would make many people cry and be really bitchy. And that's why they hire game designers, to balance the game so people have fun playing.

      Honestly, from the perspective of someone inside the industry - ideas are a dime a dozen (no offense, I do like the idea). The real trick is:
      1) Finding someone willing to finance development of (your ultimate game idea)
      2) Putting together a team with the creative and technical know-how to actually create and produce (your ultimate game idea)

      There are a lot of really creative people that have great game ideas, but publishers are pretty leery (as one might imagine) to plunk down a few million bucks on a revolutionary (read: risky) game design, especially if it's not coming from a designer (or established studio) with an established track record of success.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    73. Re:Never been done by cromar · · Score: 1

      That sounds totally AWESOME, whatever the genre. This could be achieved now, but not solely with AI: it could probably start out with about 20 human played "NPC"s that are employed by the people who run the game/servers and be scaled up according to game popularity.

      Take, for example, the head of one of your military factions. A live human, or humans spread across different time zones for more "uptime," could control that character according to plot points agreed upon before the game starts (and updated according to emerging situations in the RPG). Then, you could have lower ranking NPCs, e.g. the shuttle captains and crew, controlled by AI as they would be simpler characters and less important to the plot.

      This could supplement the idea of even more powerful GMs who could take over any NPC character, etc., as necessary. I know I would probably take a job as one for say $30k a year. That would be great: game 8 hours a day and interact with people (like Odin always disguising himself as a random wanderer).

    74. Re:Never been done by Broken+scope · · Score: 1

      My only concern would allowing it to be a game that you could play, but didn't have to be on all the time. Of course that also messes up my semi perma death mechanic...

      --
      You mad
    75. Re:Never been done by Broken+scope · · Score: 1

      The issue with that is though, a heavy MAC round should destroy your, or at least severely damage your ship, other wise... well it would feel silly to me, I mean wow, you have just made another MMO that is different weapons different wrapper, but in the end the experience is the same. You fight you die, respawn grab something else to kill with and run right back in. I want it to mean something when that nice big Cruiser you just got command of suddenly has a giant hole where engineering used to be. I want you to think, "Damn that was rather short lived...." Then you start your characters ass towards the nearest escape pod.

      I think MMO's need to move in multiple directions, some games need to exist for the people who want a more forgiving game, some need to exist for the people who want that more tense experience.

      When I say math I mean some really basic algebra. Ex, you put your ship into a slow roll, that way you always have a loaded gun facing your target, and by the time a weapon is facing the target again, it has already loaded.

      I'm also hoping on the off chance that bandwidth gets cheaper, processing power gets a whole lot cheaper, Ai gets better and easier to tailor to your needs, digital distribution becomes the norm, and things occur that allow dev teams to get a tad smaller... just a tad smaller.

      I you close your eyes and wish hard enough it happens right?

      Ideally this would be the crowning achievement of a stunning career in the games industry (Basically a snowballs chance in hell). I do realize that its not exactly realistic under the current environment in the industry. I also seriously doubt I'm the first person with delusions of grandeur like this, I'm just not sure if I should hunt the others down and kill them or ask them if they want to do something that could result in a career ending fiasco.

      I want to see if I really do have anything unique to add to the pot, and if it doesn't work out I'll take my degree and go work in another industry, unlike my friends who are getting game design degrees... and are fucked if it doesn't work out for them.

      --
      You mad
    76. Re:Never been done by forgotten_my_nick · · Score: 1

      System Shock 2.
      F.E.A.R.
      Call of Cthulhu - Dark Corners of the Earth

  2. System Shock 2 and the Thief series by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    Both have excellent, immersive stories. Thief: Deadly Shadows has a super story but the game itself was a bit weak.

    1. Re:System Shock 2 and the Thief series by Applekid · · Score: 2, Informative

      I wouldn't exactly call Thief an FPS... play it like one and you wind up dead pretty quick.

      --
      More Twoson than Cupertino
    2. Re:System Shock 2 and the Thief series by The+Ultimate+Fartkno · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I would - First Person Sneaker. We need more of those, dangit. The Thief trilogy is one of my absolute favorites and needs to come back! That, and No One Lives Forever. Totally overlooked, IMO.

    3. Re:System Shock 2 and the Thief series by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

      No, not just System Shock 2 or Thief: Deadly Shadows (still barfing at that name).

      Try the original System Shock. I'm a big fan of the sequel but still think it pales in comparison to the original.

    4. Re:System Shock 2 and the Thief series by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

      I just finished Thief 3 (Deadly Shadows). It was built on the Unreal engine, unlike the first two games which used a proprietary engine, I believe. I was glad to see that the gameplay was tweaked to match the original.

      About the only thing I missed was that items such as keys and letters no longer go in your inventory, although I suppose that helps keep it less cluttered. There are also less keys to find to open doors--unless I kept missing them; they are hard to spot after they fall off of a ragdoll. Keys you do find, as I said, don't go in your inventory and are used automagically, which I don't really like. It's like the door was always unlocked.

      The other thing I didn't really care for was that every level is split into two or three parts, and the overworld is split into many parts. I like the overworld idea as a whole, especially that you get to pawn your own goods and buy and sell at different shops, but the frequent splits lead to frequent loading... and saved games don't load too fast either. It would be nice if the engine didn't reload the level I was just in. These problems are most evident when, in a certain portion of the game, you are running to specific overworld levels, so you spend more time on the loading screen than you do running from level entrance to level exit.

      I also couldn't find the cornerstones you're supposed to shoot with your bow to appease the Pagans, but I didn't need those anyways, I just found their water element shrine thing and fired 20 water arrows through it to make them happy.

      Still I suppose I'm nitpicking, it was a great game for the $20 I paid for it on Steam. Steam makes sporadic game purchases more fun! :)

  3. I never liked Quake ... by garett_spencley · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ... solely for that reason.

    I love FPS games, but Quake and Quake II just seemed too pointless and lacking in any kind of reward.

    Quake III Arena was much different because it was multi player and the point was more to compete and develop your "skills" (pardon the term, I just can't think of anything more appropriate) against other human players.

    But Quake and Quake II had absolutely no rewards. The protagonist was not someone that you could relate to. The monsters seemed rather random. There was no hot chick waiting for you to save her at the end of the game. The game play didn't progress in any interesting fashion. Nothing really happened. It was just point, shoot, kill for absolutely no reason.

    The graphics were better than Doom but I found Doom to be more fun. The levels were shorter, and I guess it was just new. With Quake/QuakeII it was like Doom but with better graphics and different weapons and aliens. Been there. Done that.

    So yeah ... I think story lines are essential to a fun FPS even when (correction: especially when) the main activity is just pointing and shooting.

    1. Re:I never liked Quake ... by Soul-Burn666 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Who needs storyline when you have co-op?

      Doom, Quake and later SeriousSam were all games with pretty much no important story but fun fun fun in multiplayer co-op.

      I don't know if I'm alone in this thought, but for me it was much funner to play jDoom in coop than Doom3 single. Simple graphics, simple levels and a whole lot of fun.

      --
      ^_^
    2. Re:I never liked Quake ... by morari · · Score: 1

      Quake would have been a lot better had they played up the Lovecraftian elements more. It's my understanding though that Quake is a mere shell of what it was planned to be. Everyone wanted to play it safe and just throw more Doom style gameplay at the audience instead of trying something different. Sadly, Id Software seems to have to kept this policy ever since.

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    3. Re:I never liked Quake ... by Dr.Boje · · Score: 1

      Oh, you don't understand Quake II? I guess you never read the manual or sat through the opening cutscene then. Quake II didn't need a protagonist you could relate to or some girl to save; this isn't Mario. Basically the scene is set up just enough for you to know what's going on and what your mission is, and then the focus is on the gameplay. Earth is at war with the Strogg and they've launched a counter-attack on their home planet, but instead they get ambushed and you happen to be lucky enough to make it there alive. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_II). Sounds about as simple as the Doom storyline.

      And another thing -- for you to praise Q3A for succeeding in its "purpose" of being multiplayer is just totally irrational when you consider the fact that Quake II had a massive online player base and the multiplayer game modes are practically all the same, not to mention the myriad of mods that were developed for it.

    4. Re:I never liked Quake ... by Floritard · · Score: 1

      I've just recently been reading H.P. Lovecraft for the first time. I had always heard the term "Lovecraftian" describing things I really liked and after finally checking it out I'm really getting into the whole mythology he created. I agree it would have been awesome if Quake would have had more of that in the game, as it is there is really just an atmosphere of Lovecraft. That said, I think id has never really duplicated that atmosphere in a game before or since. There was a real feeling of being in a damned place. I loved how it felt outside of time as well, mixing ancient past and distant future. You can say Quake had no plot but I had more fun in that world than I've had with most storied games. It's weird because I think Doom leaned more towards Quake 1, while Doom 3 leaned more towards Quake 2 in terms of feeling. I wish in future games id would embrace Lovecraftian fantasy and Satanic pageantry more than boring science fiction, but it was probably long-departed Romero who was responsible for it in the first place.

    5. Re:I never liked Quake ... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Serious Sam might not have had a story, but it did have some nice bits of narrative in the head-up display. It is still my all-time favourite FPS for co-op play. Tweak the blood options, have a few drinks, and then blow up a load of aliens that bleed multicoloured flowers...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  4. Only recently? by sa1lnr · · Score: 2, Informative

    Clive Barkers Undying springs to mind. And it was scary to boot.

    Much underrated game to my mind. One of the few games that I have actually played all the way through.

    Shadowman was another.

  5. The good old days... by Dan+East · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Map designer: "Hey, check out this really cool Gothic arch I made in worldcraft!"
    Lead designer: "Nice, that really looks like a gateway to hell. I like the guys chained to the stone walls suspended above a pit of lava too. It looks like their souls have been sucked right out of them."
    Resulting game story: "You must pass the gateway to hell, and descend into the depths to save the damned before their souls are harvested."

    Dan East

    --
    Better known as 318230.
  6. System Shock 2 by zolf13 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... could be a nice start.

    1. Re:System Shock 2 by Das+Modell · · Score: 1

      The first System Shock and Thief 2 are excellent as well.

    2. Re:System Shock 2 by clickety6 · · Score: 1

      on the playstation, I found the Syphon Filter series to work quite well as a scripted plot (3rd person rather than 1st person shooter, I know!). OK, so there's not a lot of character development and it's more Die Hard 3 in terms of action, but then we are talking about shooter games where you don't expect a lot of relationship stuff to creep in - you just want to destroy things! :-)

      --
      ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
  7. Based on my experience... by Sciros · · Score: 1

    I'd say FPS stories are written in the following manner:
    1) various generic plot devices are written on a couple of hundred Post-It notes
    2) post it-notes are stapled to a bulletin board in a random arrangement
    3) fifteen darts are thrown at the bulletin board
    4) ???
    5) emergency all-nighter to write some crap based on 15 of those Post-Its

    Honestly, even the "okay" stories in most games are, at best, not complete rubbish. It's just that, as with comic book stories, our standards are rock-bottom low.

    --
    I like basketball!!1!
  8. I'll save you some time... by Aladrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'll save everyone some time from reading the article:

    New games need story. Stories need writers. Writers need to think about the audience.

    Some games already have stories.

    There's a lot of plugs for the Haze game, for some reason.

    And that's it... There's nothing else. They act all philosphical about how FPS's need story/etc, but it's absolutely no different than how other games need story, except in scale. RPGs need more, puzzle games need less.

    --
    "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
  9. Manatees by cerelib · · Score: 3, Funny

    Oh look, he's got a "kidnapped sidekick" story ball.

  10. System Shock 2? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    System Shock 2 doesn't fit neatly into the FPS genre (it's more of an FPS/RPG hybrid, though even that isn't quite accurate), but I think its story was very well done.

  11. As John Carmack (supposedly said) by xtracto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important."

    from wikiquotes...

    --
    Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    1. Re:As John Carmack (supposedly said) by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      that's why all games by id soft are so boring to play in the single player mode.
      carmack should play deus ex a couple of times, maybe then he'll understand.

      --
      Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.
    2. Re:As John Carmack (supposedly said) by BlueParrot · · Score: 1

      Nonsense...

      -You dare to attack me here? Do you even know who you face?

      -So godchild, you have escaped.
      -You're not going to torture us any longer.
      -Torture? Silly girl, you just don't understand what I'm doing, do you?
      -I don't care what you're doing, let us go.
      -I won't let you leave, not when I'm so close to unlocking your power.
      -We don't want anything from you!

      -ENOUGH. I don't have the time to listen to the babbling of ignorant children.
      -This is an unsanctioned use of magical energy, all involved will be held, this disturbance is over.

      -This mage's power is imense, we must overcome him quickly.
      -Your pathetic magic is uselss, let this end.
      -Even if we fall our numbers are many, you will be overwhealmed.
      -You bore me mageling. You may take me in but you will take the girl as well..
      -No, I've done nothing wrong.
      -You've been involved in illegal use of magic, you will come with us.
      *LVL UP SOUND*

      No no, I haven't played that too much, honest :p

    3. Re:As John Carmack (supposedly said) by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

      He said that...and his company's games exemplify that. But while there is something to it, FPSes with compelling stories outsell FPSes without compelling stories. Halflife 2 outsold Doom 3.

      Single player games without some story get tedious. (Multiplayer games are, of course, entirely different...no story needed.)

      --
      The cake is a pie
    4. Re:As John Carmack (supposedly said) by nuzak · · Score: 1

      David Warner could make the ingredients list on a cereal box compelling.

      Shame about the voice they got for Imoen though.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    5. Re:As John Carmack (supposedly said) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As John Carmack (supposedly said): "Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important."

      Oh, so that is why id's games both suck and blow so much....

  12. Don't forget the Marathon series... by Wulfstan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Marathon series was a mac-only creation written by Bungie (before they were bought by Microsoft - they went on to do Halo I think) and it was an example of a FPS with a seriously deep storyline. It was so complex and deep that I couldn't even follow it! But they put in loads of effort to make it consistent, a great game and practically an FPS novel. An oldie but a goodie.

    --
    --- Nick, hard at work :->
    1. Re:Don't forget the Marathon series... by phase_9 · · Score: 1

      "leet at this s--t since Marathon, 10 f--kin years of killin' you where you spawn"..? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hb-R0cw8Yc

    2. Re:Don't forget the Marathon series... by X_Bones · · Score: 1

      Marathon 2 was released for Win95, but M1 and Moo were Mac-only.

      Of course, with Aleph One and tons of free content available for Mac, Windows, and Linux, everyone can play it now.

    3. Re:Don't forget the Marathon series... by Creepy · · Score: 1

      *originally* mac only - it was ported to x86 later.

      It wasn't even Bungie's first FPS, per-se - that would be Pathways Into Darkness (wiki here. Some argue that this was technically a first person RPG with shooter and horror elements (like Ultima Underworld, TES Arena, etc), which I wouldn't disagree with, but I found it more intense and difficult than most shooters of that era (Wolf 3D, Doom) and even the next generation (like Rise of the Triad, Marathon, and Duke Nukem 3D).

      on a completely unrelated note, Marathon and Rise of the Triad both had voice chat support, a feature that pretty much disappeared for about 10 years before reappearing in shooters. Who had it first is speculative (my understanding is Rise of the Triad shareware beat Bungie's release by 2 months, even though the full game of RotT wasn't released until ~5 months later). I used this feature in both games a lot in late night college lab frag-fests until the group moved pretty much exclusively to DN3D (which gave me worse motion sickness than the rest and limited my play time).

    4. Re:Don't forget the Marathon series... by tooler · · Score: 1

      Don't forget the board game Go, either, Slashdotters.

    5. Re:Don't forget the Marathon series... by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 1

      Pathways and Marathon took place in the same universe, which is arguably connected to the universe of Halo.

      --
      In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
  13. Half life by LordBafford · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think the original halflife had a good story behind it, and as they added mods for it the story was played through different angles, with specific points relating to the original story. Like in Opposing Forces, you played HL through the eyes of the marines involved, then in blue shift you go to go through the story as a black mesa gaurd. I even played a user made mod that had you play as a an alien and see their side of the story. With a basic plot line of Scientists cause a problem and open portal to another dimension, they did quite a lot with it to let you see it from many angles.

    Another mod for HL1 was They Hunger, which had a pretty decent storyline, it had 3 installments and was a zombie based game. In all it had a good story to it.

    So to sum up FPS games can have good story lines, but depending on what the game is a bout and when it is set matters and might limit what story can be conveyed.

    --
    Today's Tomorrow is Yesterday's Future! --- "Where Ever You Go, There You Are" -- Diablo 1
  14. Penn Jillette on stories by dazedNconfuzed · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Technology adds nothing to art. Two thousand years ago, I could tell you a story, and at any point during the story I could stop, and ask, Now do you want the hero to be kidnapped, or not? But that would, of course, have ruined the story. Part of the experience of being entertained is sitting back and plugging into someone else's vision. The fact of the matter is, since the beginning of time, you could buy a Picasso and change the colors. That's trivial. But you don't because you're buying a piece of Picasso's $&#**^% soul. That's the definition of art: Art is one person's ego trip."
    - Penn Jillette

    --
    Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
    1. Re:Penn Jillette on stories by moderatorrater · · Score: 4, Funny

      By that definition, Daikatana was definitely art.

    2. Re:Penn Jillette on stories by seebs · · Score: 1

      He's wrong, though.

      Interactive art is different from non-interactive.

      Not better. Not worse. Different.

      When I play a game like Monkey Island, I am not wrecking some guy's story, and I am not missing out on the insane fun it would be to just hear it told.

      Montfort's Twisty Little Passages, I think, while not totally satisfying, makes a basic case that games are more like riddles than like conventional stories.

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    3. Re:Penn Jillette on stories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch what you say. I hear John Romero has a habit of making people his bitches.

    4. Re:Penn Jillette on stories by zussal · · Score: 1

      So I guess paint brushes and paint, being technology, add nothing to art??

    5. Re:Penn Jillette on stories by grumbel · · Score: 1

      Somebody better tell that to all those parents that tell their childs interactive bed time stories.

      I would go as far as to say that fixed stories are actually a rather new thing, thanks to printing press and movies that allow to keep them in an hard to modify state, before that, they might have changed each time they got told, since they only existed in the tellers mind and not word for word recorded on paper.

  15. Mod parent up. by MrFancyPants · · Score: 2, Informative
  16. Butcher Bay and other underrated games by grapeape · · Score: 3, Interesting

    DeusEX, Thief and Chronicles of Riddick Butcher Bay are all grossly underrated as far as storyline goes. Compared to even most RPG's out there today they stand head and shoulders above 95% of the games out there. I'd go so far to say that the story of the Riddick game is actually better than the second movie. All three are completely different in genre and atmosphere and actually engage the player with a goal in mind far beyond getting to the next level. Prey was another that was fun to play and had a decent attempt at a story.

    1. Re:Butcher Bay and other underrated games by Broken+scope · · Score: 1

      The characters in Deus Ex were awesome too, especially the Ai constructs.

      --
      You mad
    2. Re:Butcher Bay and other underrated games by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      I'd love to see a remake of Deus Ex to take advantage of modern hardware. It had a great plot, interesting characters, and believable missions.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    3. Re:Butcher Bay and other underrated games by mqduck · · Score: 1

      I'd love to see a remake of Deus Ex to take advantage of modern hardware. It had a great plot, interesting characters, and believable missions. I'd like to see a good sequel. Ever play Deus Ex 2? The gameplay was very dumbed down. What we need is a new Deus Ex with the exact same gameplay formula as the original. Nothing wrong with giving more of what works.
      --
      Property is theft.
    4. Re:Butcher Bay and other underrated games by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Really? You're telling me a video game based on a Vin Diesel movie is worth playing? Honestly?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    5. Re:Butcher Bay and other underrated games by Don_dumb · · Score: 1

      Really? You're telling me a video game based on a Vin Diesel movie is worth playing? Honestly? That's exactly what I thought but based on many comments above I might actually try it.
      --
      If this were really happening, what would you think?
    6. Re:Butcher Bay and other underrated games by renoX · · Score: 1

      Well I played Deus Ex when its graphism were obsolete, but I still enjoyed it quite a lot.
      If there is a lesson to be learned by the Wii, it's that graphism aren't that important when the rest is well done..

  17. Undying Hell yea. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

    That was the first thing to pop into my mind as well. Excellent script, excellent atmosphere, effective sound.

    The real weakness of the FPS has been the fact that, until relatively recently, you've been constrained on the GUI. I mean, think of the possible actions in your average RPG or other seriously story driven game, and then think of the FPS "actions" which are as follows: run, shoot, jump, action.

    Some games make it work; Undying was great, not because of any imaginative action system, but because the scripting was so good. Same with Deus Ex, though Deus Ex added more in the form of implants, which gave the illusion of having more choices in actions.

    Now we're starting to get more serious FPS/Storytelling crossovers with games like Oblivion. I think as the tech matures, and people are really able to have it both ways (e.g. fast paced gameplay with a rich action set), that we'll start seeing storytelling catch up in more of the FPS-style games.

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  18. Theif by JeremyGNJ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think the closest I've seen to a good plot in an FPS was the Thief series. Or maybe the plot wasn't so much good, as the game play was immersive, so you're more accepting of what plot there was. Another good one was the original Max Payne! The stuff with his baby being killed and the dream sequences that followed were a good plot that really "made you mad" and want. It is hard to write a plot line that involves "kills lots of stuff indiscriminately". I think the best way to get that effect is to do the RPG trick of "sub quests" so that you're running around "open endedly" and choosing different things to do, even though in the end you have to do X Y Z. There should also be an element of "Choose your own adventure", so that different plot lines can come out based on how you play. The problem with that is the production cost of levels and cut-scenes that some players will never see.

  19. What storylines? by bevoblake · · Score: 1

    FPSs have stories? Seriously though, there's also continually increasing common ground between RPGs and FPSs. Case in point: Oblivion is first person, and while not a shooter in the traditional since, it sure has some strong FPS aspects. At the nexus of the two genres, I think there'll be a lot of plot development. FPS as a genre holds appeal similar to action movies - quick gratification of the id. As such, I've faced plots that did a great job facilitating the action (Halo, Goldeneye, both Half-lifes), but too much plot intricacy could easily tarnish the quick fun of the frag.

    1. Re:What storylines? by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      That is, in my opinion, the biggest gap between FPS games, for instance, UT2004 and Halo (both of which are very good games imho). UT is all about the frag, taking on your friends, zooming in and sniping their head; it's especially satisfying to see chunks of their skull bounce around on the ground for a while. Halo, on the other hand, is all about competing with your friends against the computers and finishing what is, in my opinion, a decent storyline, enough of one to keep me interested in completing it.

    2. Re:What storylines? by bevoblake · · Score: 1

      I fully agree on those two games. Another piece of this puzzle is that FPS games are excellent forums for artistic achievement. I remember being mindblown by some of the visuals in Halo when it first came out. That in turn, boosted the story in my opinion.

  20. Outlaws! by maddogdelta · · Score: 1

    That still is a great game, despite the older graphics. The story carries it. I feel like I'm Clint Eastwood every time I play it..

    --
    -- There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
    1. Re:Outlaws! by ThosLives · · Score: 1

      Oh, wow... I used to burn so many hours in college on that one.

      The taunts...oh, the taunts!




      (And don't forget dynamite!)

      --
      "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
  21. Duh! by tbcpp · · Score: 2, Funny

    1. Load rough drafts into shotgun 2. Fire shot gun into wall 3. Paste shreds randomly together 4. ??? 5. Profit!

    --
    Man is the lowest-cost, 150-pound, nonlinear, all-purpose computer system which can be mass-produced by unskilled labor.
  22. Re:Thief by Seakip18 · · Score: 1

    Max Payne was also a great. Film Noir meets physics engine meets killing lots of stuff. The Cello accompaniment in the Max Payne 2 still haunts me.

    --
    import system.cool.Sig;
  23. Um... by morari · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They're not.

    --
    "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
  24. How FPS Storylines Are Written by DarthBender · · Score: 1

    Poorly.

  25. Gonna get the girl, gonna kill the baddies... by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

    ... and save the en-tire planet.

  26. That wouldn't explain mods, though by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    While that is to some extent true, and insightful too, I'd say mods at least prove that it's more complex than that. E.g.,

    1. There are people who actually enjoy being creative in their own right, and taking the story in their own direction

    2. There are people who have strong feelings about what kind of characters they want or don't want to play. Since a game essentially requires you to be the lead actor in that story. And it has happened to me before (and to countless others) that a character was a major turn-off because that's not the kind of person or role I want to play.

    And even before computers, that kind of thing has happened before too.

    E.g., Aleksey Nikolayevich Tolstoy's "The Gold Key, or Adventures of Buratino" is, by and large, the novel version of a "mod" of "Pinocchio".

    E.g., the famous sixtine chapel ceiling was later "modded" by, basically, painting breeches on the originally nude characters. I'd say that's _exactly_ like buying a Picasso and then changing the colours. Except in this case it's a whole chapel painted by Michelangelo.

    E.g., in theatre or opera or movies, the director (and sometimes actors) have a lot of room to subtly alter the story, and emphasize or de-emphasize various aspects regardless of what the author had in mind. Especially adaptations from novel to movie, or to opera or theatre long before such technology, things are often changed massively.

    E.g., as an example of #2, in movies actors often play a major role in modifying the script. Harrison Ford, for example, is known to have had quire a bit of input in what Han Solo ended up like, or he's the reason for that famous Indiana Jones scene where Indy just draws a revolver and shoots the guy with the big sword. (The original script called for a lot of using the whip and stuff.) Plus actors routinely refuse roles they don't want to be associated with.

    So, yes, in a sense he's right: technology doesn't add anything new. On the other hand he's wrong: people routinely made changes to someone else's vision, long before computers or movies.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  27. I like the story of the OSS FPS Cube. by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    "You kill stuff. The End."
    Truely unique. And all the story I need for an FPS. :-)
    ( http://cubeengine.com/ )

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:I like the story of the OSS FPS Cube. by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 1

      "[My english is better than most other people's german, so please point out mistakes politely. Thank you.]"

      Truely -> Truly

      Dutchman here, trying to be polite good neighbour ;)

      --
      This is the sig that says NI (again)
  28. Marathon Story Archives by BadMrMojo · · Score: 1

    And just in case you want to see some of the storyline he's talking about. . .

    http://marathon.bungie.org/Story/

    The story was told through a series of terminals - sometimes in seemingly random snippets of logs, sometimes in direct communications from the various AIs on the ship. It's your basic "Boy meets AIs, Aliens invade AIs' ship, AI becomes self-aware, AI uses boy to overthrow both the shackles of the alien invaders and the other AIs running various systems of the ship" story. It's actually pretty engaging,. I found myself looking forward to the next terminal even more than the action itself at some points.

    All three and major mods are available (Free with a capital F) for mac, linux and PC at http://source.bungie.org/ and Marathon 2: Durandal - arguably the best of the bunch - is coming to XBLA, courtesy of Freeverse.

  29. Clive Barker's "Undying" by hiryuu · · Score: 1

    If you're looking for well-crafted story in the FPS genre, an oft-overlooked and not-as-well-known entry has to be Undying, with backstory penned by (or under the direction of) Clive Barker. As a game it was somewhere between average and good, but the story was definitely solid.

    --
    Karma: Excellent, but still won't get you laid.
    1. Re:Clive Barker's "Undying" by shivamib · · Score: 1

      That game was so creepy I couldn't really play it. Really scary stuff.

  30. Realism, Abstraction, and context by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is a push for story because most games and technology are focused on realism. This creates an inherent need for context.

    ie: A human character as player -- Who is he? Where is he? Why? These questions naturally occur to us.

    So then, the further you abstract the game, the less need for story, as the gameplay and the abstractions can hold their own context of abstraction (we "let go" and don't feel a need to rationalize what we see and do when it is abstracted beyond recognition or reality).

    ie: PacMan is a geometric shape that "eats" dots. You must avoid opponents and are constrained to a maze. There is no "Why" to this other than the need for survival. There is no Who. We don't really care about the geometric shape's origins, motivations, or feelings.

    Only when PacMan was transferred to a linear, non-interactive medium (Saturday morning cartoon) was it necessary to contextualize the geometric shape into a "character", with a life, motivations, needs, etc. Because that's what you need to tell a story.

    The two mediums at extremes are very seperate. The problem is games today are way too focused on "reality" which brings such games into the side that necessitates a context.

  31. Sneaker Shock 2 and the Thief series by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Tom Clancy Splinter Cells series. Now as far as story the Wing Commander series. The Homeworld series. Hell some adventure games revolve around a story. e.g. Dreamfall, Phantasmagoria, etc.

  32. I don't want a story in my FPS by bigbigbison · · Score: 1

    While I want some motivation or rational for things, if stories are going to be told through cut scenes then count me out. As far as I'm concerned most cut scenes are just lame cop-outs for games that either can't figure out a way to tell the story without them or have limitations in their game engine that prevent the player from doing it themselves and so they have to make a cut scene to show the character to something.

    If that is how stories are going to be told in FPS then leave them out or at least make them skipable.

    --
    http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
    1. Re:I don't want a story in my FPS by zussal · · Score: 1

      Yeah but a cutscene can tell much more than the main character can experience in real-time. That's why Half Life 2 is so dry, they expect all the story to be told as Gordon is moving through the game. What about the background of the game? What about the subplots and other characters? A lot of the story doesn't involve just the main character. But perhaps they can figure it out to have the fewest possible cutscenes.... I just think to say "no cutscenes period" is limiting the potential of a good story.

  33. Mother of All FPS Story Lines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's time to kick ass or chew gum, and I'm all outta gum.

    1. Re:Mother of All FPS Story Lines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's time to kick ass or chew gum, and I'm all outta gum.

      Amateur! Cretin!
      It's time to kick ass AND chew BUBBLE gum, and I'm all out of gum.

      Sheesh!
  34. Surely thou jest by Moraelin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ie: PacMan is a geometric shape that "eats" dots. You must avoid opponents and are constrained to a maze. There is no "Why" to this other than the need for survival. There is no Who. We don't really care about the geometric shape's origins, motivations, or feelings.


    Heh... reminds me of the high school days, when I'd occasionally be bored enough to imagine a whole touching story about such games and characters as Chucky Egg.

    Admittedly, the whole was more or less part of reverse-engineering how to write a school essay. I could eventually write an essay on anything whatsoever, and put any spin whatsoever on it. (IIRC the Chucky Egg one was about the struggle of the working class against the corporate chickens. I'm not kidding.) I was all about that kind of finding the rules that work and (ab)using them.

    I think I did one about Pac Man too, but I can't quite remember what it was about.

    Still, there you go, even if for the somewhat disturbed reasons, someone did care about Chucky's or PacMan's life, motivations, needs, etc.

    I don't think I'm the only one, though. You should see the kind of complex stories within stories that people imagine around such abstract games as Europa Universalis or Hearts Of Iron. And they're ultra-abstracted grand strategy games. You don't even command anything smaller than an army, and you don't even have access to the tactical details of a battle. It's actually more abstract than your average hex-based strategy game.

    Yet people write whole stories about _why_ something happened. They don't just write "Army Group North pushed towards Berlin", they write a whole story about how that decision was taken, what the reactions were at the HQ meeting, and occasionally what happened to the ordinary soldiers in that battle. (Again, the ordinary soldiers exist only as an abstract number in the actual game.)

    So what I'm getting at is: maybe it's not just blamable on "realism". I think many of us actually have a need for such stories. We can't be truly satisfied with "Knight takes Pawn at E4, check". We actually have to really know that Knight's personality, background, aspirations. What went through his head as he charged through the pikemen at E4 (a pawn) to try to capture the enemy King? Was he affraid? Did he do it for honour? For his own king and country? For some beautiful lady? (Quite a common thing in the middle ages.) Did he charge with a sword or with a lance? Etc. We have to really know that guy's story, you know?
    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  35. Defending Half Life by BeansBaxter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am not sure why Half Life is getting the rap so badly. While the story might not be the strongest in the world as it leaves plenty for you to fill in. Like why the man in black is walking around and why he is at the end of the game. If you take your time going through the game there were some truly classic moments. One of my favorites was crawling through and air duct and listening to some of the soldiers complain about Freeman and why they wanted him dead. The game worked really well for me and made me feel like it was all about me and my actions had consequences. Obviously they were scripted but the game really pulled me in and made me care about trying to live to the next fight. The scripted sequences and the way that characters interacted with Freeman was exception in my opinion. Anyway just thought I'd lend some support to my favorite game of all time.

    1. Re:Defending Half Life by gracefool · · Score: 1

      None of those things are story (plot).

  36. Call of Cthulhu by Gulthek · · Score: 1

    Call of Cthulhu anyone? Kick ass mashup of a bunch of Lovecraft stories? It's the only game besides 'Fatal Frame 2' that fills me with a terrifying sense of impending doom while I play it. Good story too.

  37. I like RTS storylines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FPS storylines are generally static.
    RTS storylines, however, are dynamic as hell.

    1. Re:I like RTS storylines by zussal · · Score: 1

      RTS storylines are good but the gameplay is generally stiff and boring. There is too much "errand running" in those. I'd rather start out with all my abilities and cut to the chase... and it needs to be First Person of course. But even Oblivion's control felt notchy compared to Half Life or Doom.

  38. If i want plot, i read a book. by ArcadeX · · Score: 1

    I thought the plot for HL was awesome, then I later realized that while strong as far as FPS goes, they could have fed me anything they wanted, i was just drooling over the graphics when played on my canopus daughterboard... 12 megs of video goodness ; )

    I play FPS to shoot stuff and see great graphics while doing it, plot is optional... less plot, the better the engine / graphics better be, likewise the better the plot the more I can ignore from crappy graphics and gameplay, but seriously, what kind of plot can you expect from a 3d choose your own adventure shoot'em up?

    --
    An I.T. motto in the hands of an idiot is a dangerous thing...
    1. Re:If i want plot, i read a book. by zussal · · Score: 1

      It still needs some sort of point though.

  39. It's all a matter of taste... by Bob-taro · · Score: 1

    ...I liked the puzzle-breaks and bits of dialogue in half-life, but one of my friends hated all that and "just wanted to shoot stuff". So some people would argue that "more plot" is a bad thing, anyway. I love how so many posters seem to consider "plot quality" to be something you can objectively measure. I think it is difficult to compare a static movie plot with an interactive game plot. A game has to have a fun interactive element or it might just as well BE a movie. When you watch a sword fight in a movie like "the Count of Monte Cristo" you might imagine yourself actually being there - well, a game can bring that experience to a whole new level. On the other hand, the part of that movie where the main character is studying in prison and plotting his revenge was interesting in the movie, but would be a big yawn in a game.

    --
    Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
  40. Choice in game doesnt ruin a story. by darkmayo · · Score: 1

    Just because you are given a choice in a game doesnt mean you are all of a sudden not following the creators story anymore.

    We havent reached a point where games have significant AI where everytime you play through a story the ending will be different. All your endings are already written and apart of the story, you just happen to choose which one you end up seeing. The story is already made and is apart of what the storyteller wants you to see.

    You are still apart of the artists vision, its just that his vision includes more than one view.

    So I have to call BULLSHIT on his statement.

    --
    "I am a kernel in the linux army"
  41. Half Life 2??? by zussal · · Score: 1

    That is about the most dry game I have ever played. I never connected with any of the characters and the plot went nowhere. I'd rather play Half Life 1 which didn't try to pretend to tell a story... it let you make up your own mind.

  42. Birth of 3D. by twitchingbug · · Score: 1

    You have to take Quake in the context of gaming at that point. It was still fun to just kill your friends online. And tactically, the 1-1 DM or 4-4 DM games are somewhat complex and did require a lot of "skill" to play. And that was the reward - You are better than another player. You win. How is that different than a lot of games or sports?
    Also Quake singlehandly brought us:

    - Full 3d environment
    - Mods
    - Custom Mapping
    - OpenGL as a viable, marketable 3D standard over Direct3D (not terribly important to FPSes but a good market push against MS from Carmack)

    I haven't played a lot of the current crop of FPSes but my guess is that FPS are stagnating. Even with a good plot, not many have strayed from this formula, which is the real reason people are bored with FPSes.

    even if you didn't like the game, it's pretty influential in gaming history.

    1. Re:Birth of 3D. by garett_spencley · · Score: 1

      When I was talking about Quake I was talking purely about single player mode. Quake III arena didn't have much in terms of single player and that was the game that really introduced me to online playing, which is why I singled it out as being different.

      With Quake and Quake 2 I only got into the single player. Quake's graphics were great at the time ... but the game play was downright boring. That was my only point.

  43. Level design, how about that huh? by obeythefist · · Score: 1

    I notice there was mention of Quake not having much of a storyline... that wasn't such a bad thing really, the plot wasn't much more involved than DooM, it's true.

    But the level design really was very good. Because the level design was part of the imagery, there were areas you didn't have to go to, areas you could go to if you wanted, areas that made you think, "How can I get there? Do I need to go there? It would be interesting to go there!". Areas you could rocket jump into just for fun. Areas that you had to think and work within the environment a little to get out of (not just point and shoot!)

    We don't get that kind of fun level design anymore.

    Nowadays, it's pipe design. They design a pipe with a few bends and a few scripted events that you plod through in a set, linear fashion (no shortcuts, no optional detours). Every time you play it, sure, the outcome is more or less the same, but the journey is the same too! That helps the storytelling process, maybe. Sure as heck wrecks the fun of actually "playing" in the game.

    --
    I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
  44. Marathon by LKM · · Score: 1

    That is all :-)

  45. why should FPSs have big story lines? by master_p · · Score: 1

    FPS games are all about immersion, suspension of disbelief. A good story line will not add anything significant to the game.

    I have played HL 1 & 2, Deus Ex 1 & 2, System Shock, Max Payne 1 & 2, the Quake games, the Doom games, Duke Nuke Em 3d etc...in none of this games I would care about a good story line. Just a basic storyline is good enough.

    What counts in these games is how immersive they are. Max Payne was a good game not because of its story line (who gives a dime about a cop having his family slaughtered by the bad guys - much worse things have happened in reality), but because the way it presented the world: dark, snowy, with police sirens going on every minute, it really gave you that cold feeling of a New York night.