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Sun's Trading Symbol Going From SUNW To JAVA
Mortimer.CA writes "Straight from Jonathan Schwartz's weblog, Sun is changing their ticker symbol from SUNW to JAVA: 'JAVA is a technology whose value is near infinite to the internet, and a brand that's inseparably a part of Sun (and our profitability). [...] To be very clear, this isn't about changing the company name or focus — we are Sun, we are a systems company, and we will always be a derivative of the students that created us, Stanford University Network is here to stay. But we are no longer simply a workstation company, nor a company whose products can be limited by one category — and Java does a better job of capturing exactly that sentiment than any other four letter symbol.'"
Fripple Postino
Hmm... while many programmers are powered by java, all life on Earth is powered at least indirectly by the Sun.
So instead of naming themselves after one product category, they're naming themselves after another. Great! The name change makes some sense (who really wants the outdated "workstation" thing attached to their name?) but marketingspeak is just so silly sometimes.
Can't help but think they'll want to do this gain once Java is no longer their flagship product. If they're still around (and I hope they are!)
OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
In related news, Steve Balmer was spotted replacing his previous 'ZUNE4ME' vanity plates with a fresh set which sports the slogan 'JAVAL0L'..
Seriously though, I don't think Java is a particularly big reason for people to like Sun, and tying your company's future to it seems ill-advised.
OK, but aren't more younger programmers drinking diet coke and not Java these days?
While I agree that this sounds silly, do remember that it's just the stock symbol. There are many companies with silly stock symbols (GLW, T, F). I guess they feel that more people will buy their stocks if the name sounds familiar.
Basically, nothing to see here.
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes. - Mahatma Gandhi
on SUN with this because it's hard to predict how the market is going to react. I really don't think that it's going to make all that much difference since it's still the same company and all the same assets that they had before now. Still though with all the things coming out SUN what with all the GPL software and the deal with IBM I think that things are starting to look a little brighter. Also is it just me or does it seem like with the IBM deal that SUN is wanting to get deeper entrenched in the software business IBM wants to start to get out of it?
"Some books contain the machinery required to create and sustain universes."-Tycho
Like this reg article http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/23/sun_no_sun w_java/ is giving the example of VA Linux profiting from the Linux hype with their LNUX ticker, I guess Sun wants to confuse coffee drinkers and profit from that. People think with the global warming that they should stop investing in the sun anyway!
Who trades under "SUN"?
Ok, I did Google it, and I guess it's "Sunoco." I guess I could've seen that one coming.
(Totally off-subject, but I'm finding that Google should be responsible for a significant decrease in general ignorance: whenever someone wonders some basic question, the answer is usually a few keywords away. This hasn't happened yet for some reason.)
As all of the Solaris packages start with the companies ticker, will all future Sun packages now be called JAVAxxxxx? That's going to annoy the hell out of us sys admins =/ Haydn.
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. - Douglas Adams
Time to say goodbye to whatever is left of sun's profitability and stock price. Sun was once known for making an excellent operating system, and rock solid servers.
Now we can know them for making a bloated, non-standards compliant, partially open-sourced toy programming language.
Sure, javascript and other interpreted languages might 'run' the web experience, but their core product, an OS runs the web itself.
Maybe someone can write a web-server, written in java, running on a java vritual machine, written in java. Let me know in a few months when the server manages to actually run, given java's awesome speed.
Look out for BSOD on a stock ticker near you. Unless you are running a real operating system, that is.
Any fool can talk, but it takes a wise man to listen.
Java was a corporate-driven solution to a non existing technical problem, whose only purpose was to lock developers/users into a proprietary technology where you kill most of your machine resources or give up all advertised multiplatform compatibility, sometimes both. When it got opened by Sun, most ideological obstacles were removed, still there are a lot of technical ones.
Before modding me as troll, go ahead and count how many Java programs come in different packages aimed at different platforms, linked with native C or C++ libraries to achieve decent speed; not so different from a tar.gz C or C++ source archive, only much much bigger/slower and not multiplatform.
Want to trade some speed to run you program everywhere? Then go for Python, Ruby, PHP, Perl etc. Java is for corporate drones and Wall Street yuppies.
Now let the flame war begin.
Of course Stanford University Network is here to stay, what would Stanford University do without it?
Java was doomed, from the first time anyone ever had to ask the question "which Java?"
It failed on the "write-once, run anywhere" promise, it failed on the security promise, and it failed on the "finally, you'll be free of win32" promise. The ways that Sun screwed this pooch will be the subject of thousands of business-school term papers for years to come.
Changing Sun's ticker symbol to JAVA just tells me that Schwarz has no better ideas than rearranging the deck chairs.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Microsoft's symbol becomes DNET? ;-)
The quote was truncated. Here it is in its totality:
"But we are no longer simply a workstation company, nor a company whose products can be limited by one category -- and Java does a better job of capturing exactly that sentiment than any other four letter symbol.
Our first choice was the even more accurate DEAD, but that symbol was already taken by Emerson Burial Caskets."
Other companies have used their chief product as thier ticker symbol. Anheuser-Busch, for example, has a ticker symbol of BUD.
But in reading TFA, I can't help but feel like I'm being beat over the head with a marketing stick.
I mean, come on now... "a technology whose value is near infinite to the internet"???
Give me a break... I work in a
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
LAME
Sun has brand recognition, even if only in the silly "dot in dot com" thing. Why change it? Nobody knows what JAVA is. How about BOMB?
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/
Wouldn't JAVA make more sense as Starbucks' stock symbol? I liked SUNW. I have fond memories about learning to program on SUN and HP workstations. HP has already mostly phased out their UNIX workstation line, and this seems to be (potentially) a first tentative step for SUN to become more like IBM and move away from hardware as their bread and butter.
I write this from a SUN Linux box, so I certainly hope this isn't the case.
What on Earth is this idiot talking about?
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
Are they hoping to get some halo effect from rising coffee futures or something?
It makes no sense. It's probably some upper management "must look like we are doing something, even if it is meaningless" plan.
...because in my experience, Java increases the size of things by at least 25%.
But I assume they may reason Java's bean economy will never take a hit as long as they're in business anyway. What soothes the soul better when a new popup window finds its way around?
However, I do take substantial issue with one thing that Schwartz said, which I think is pretty badly thought out: As for working professionals, I had dinner with a financial analyst a few months ago who said he saw the Java launch experience "a few times a day" when accessing intranet applications - as did tens of thousands of his fellow employees. He's basically saying: "We shove a splash screen in users faces every day". This is a Bad Thing! He's making users associate Java with applications that have poor performance - by definition if they're seeing this they're not getting to the application they want to work on as quickly as they should. The poor performance (web server performance) is out of their hands, but it's in their control to prevent the association with their brand!
I have high regards for Sun employees in general. Their management, however, I have my doubts about.
--- These are not words: wierd, genious, rediculous
Why, everyone under the SUN, of course!
GE does a lot of things besides manufacture light bulbs and generators. In fact they do a lot of things besides manufacturing light bulbs, generators, medical equipment, jet engines, finance, plastics, and railroad locomotives. Yet they feel no need to change their trading symbol.
Does anyone think that it would help Apple to change its trading symbol from APPL to IPOD?
Does AT&T worry that people will think telegraphs are old-fashioned?
GE, Apple, and AT&T are just names. For better or worse, people know what these companies are, not because of the names, but because of the companies. And the trading symbol is one step further removed.
SUN is an acronym for Stanford University Network. It should be a proud part of the company's heritage.
Wanting to fiddle with the trading symbol is a sure sign of a company that has no idea of what its identity is or what it is or should be doing. It also indicates an unhealthy focus on the stock, rather than company's business itself.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Were Java to disappear this instant, all work done by it could be replaced using other existing technologies. Near infinite value? No, I wouldn't touch Java with a 10 foot pole, because it's crap and I don't need it for anything. But I guess if I ever want to make a slow, ugly application that needs another application installed just to run, I might look into it again.
...when's SCO changing to DEAD, CRAP or STLN...or...BTTM?!
Since Solaris packages are all marked by the originating company's stock ticker (VRTSvcs, SUNWlp), won't it cause a little confusion to start seeing things like JAVAapp, or JAVAexplorer?
It reminds me of when Microsoft started adding ".NET" to everything a few years back. Stupid and confusing and ultimately, a waste of time and money.
So they don't want to just be associated with workstations, so they change their symbol to the name of one particular software product they produce. I boggle at this.
Why not change the symbol to something like SunS (Sun Systems, oops taken), or SunT (...technologies) , or Sunn (...networking, but also taken...)
You get the idea. Keep the identity they have as Sun, because that does carry recognition. Far more than I think they think Java does. It would be like MS changing their ticker to WNDZ or the federal government getting the ticker symbol DCMA...
I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
And in later news Microsoft is changing its ticker to BSOD.
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$yes "Don't you hate dialup connections?"| write USERNAME
If so, I have some suggestions:
TOAST
KAPUT
DEAD
MLTDN
NOCSE
PWNED <---- I hated to put that last one in there, but after the way the judge ruled against them and given their current situation, I think it applies nicely.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Why change your ticker symbol from your company name to one particular product? This is akin to Apple (AAPL) changing their symbol to IPOD. As an admin who still maintains a number of Sun servers, this now raises some question as to how committed Sun is to the hardware market in the future, or whether they will go to a software model. This is starting to sound more and more like a company without a strong vision of its future, and right now some exec found that Java is one of the last jewels of hope, so software development is the current trend to see if it sticks (Borland?).
$$$ Buy JAVA it incrase penis size by 25%!!! only $9,95!!!!1 $$$
This message is brought to you by "LNUX": A company that has nothing to do with "Linux" anymore, and has only made money by selling off pieces of itself. (Slashdot is owned by Sourceforge, which used to be VA Linux, etc.).
In other words, changing their ticker name to "JAVA" doesn't necessarily bode well.
I don't respond to AC's.
Actually, when someone tries to sell me a product by pointing out that its done in java, I have to politely see them to the door. I already have several commercial java products which require a specific JRE versions, and installing a newer JRE often breaks one of them (they'll check to see of other JRE versions are present, and decide not to run for compatibility reasons). I have to be able to run them to meet client SLA requirements. So, because java is not compatible with itself, the only response I can give to the "and its done in java" selling point is "sorry to hear that". While there are workarounds to the java self-incompatibility problems, they're not worth it. The only other really satisfactory solution is to run a VM for each version of java needed. Also not worth the effort.
Does Sun have some kind of solution to java?
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
Seriously think about this from a corporate point of view? Who makes Java? Sun, IBM, even microsoft claims to have a java implementation.
So for the next long time when you Google for Java what are you doing to get?
Also this is a definite way to get top hit in Google for searches on Java because stock tickers always come up first so whenver you Google for Java you'll get Sun up there first thing. This, in my mind, effectively made sure everybody knows who really wrote Java first and whose Java is the "real" Java.
see My little pony and More big changes at sun
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Funny how if you replace all instances of Java with Microsoft, your comment wouldn't be so well received, and several people would be pointing out your bandwagon fallacy.
Just something to think about.
Just don't change the company logo to the little Java guy that waves at you. Now that would lower sales for sure! Kinda reminds me of Clippy.
-m
http://www.invisik.com
# cd /shared/pkg
J AVA5xmftc r ......
# pkgadd -d . SUNWzlib
pkgadd: ERROR: no package associated with <SUNWzlib>
# ls | grep SUNW
# ls | head
JAVA1251f
JAVA1394h
JAVA1394x
JAVA5ttf
JAVA5xplx
JAVAa2psr
JAVAa2psu
JAVAac
JAVAaccu
# echo Bastards
Bastards
# pkgadd -d . JAVAzlib
Processing package instance <JAVAzlib> from
C-x C-s C-x k
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
has decided to change the name of his immensely successful film company to JAWA.
OK, so the company isn't publicly traded, but still, has Sun not been able to get enough attention lately that it has to ride on the coat tails of Java?
We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
Just trying to PERK up the name recognition for the stock market no doubt.
There are only two steps in the gathering of ultimate knowledge. Open your eyes and, RTFM!
IBM seem to be the only company capable of actually selling java based product.
But then again they persuaded people to part with ready cash for Lotus Notes
so it doesnt really say much about Java.
I think SUN is desperate not to be seen a a hardware manufacturer becuase
of its associantion with commodity products and declining profitability.
However the only way to become a succesful software business is to SELL
software to customers, which, SUN does not do at all well.
Old COBOL programmers never die. They just code in C.
BSD is DEAD!
Here is an interesting advertisement from the company that is buying Sun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRKIDdIaFyE
Quote: "I don't think Java is a particularly big reason for people to like Sun, and tying your company's future to it seems ill-advised."
Exactly. The name change is evidence that Sun has some very technically ignorant marketing people, apparently, or maybe just a very technically ignorant, but imperial, CEO.
My understanding is that Sun does not allow its own programmers to use Java for important programs because Java is bytecode interpreted, not compiled. That makes Java easy to de-compile. Sun apparently designed the language for other people to use. Microsoft did the same with C#; apparently none of the programs Microsoft sells are written in C#.
Examples of Java de-compilers:
Jad - the fast JAva Decompiler
DJ Java Decompiler
Jode
JReversePro
SourceTec Java Decompiler
From Wikipedia's Criticism of Java: "The look and feel of GUI applications written in Java using the Swing platform is often different from native applications." It seems to me that the average person's experience of Java is that programs written in it are slow and funky, not a good advertisement for a large company.
Eventually, Java will be completely open source. It is not now. Once it is open source, Sun loses control. Does Sun want to lose control of a symbol it is using for its company?
Java is an Indonesian island of 124 million, the most populous island in the world and one of the most densely populated regions on Earth. There have been political problems there in the past. If there are problems there in the future, the word Java will be in the news. More than 90 percent of Javanese are Muslims. Does Sun intend to involve the company with the uncertain future of a Muslim island?
I will now quote someone who considers himself an authority, the CEO of Sun: "Granted, lots of folks on Wall Street know SUNW, given its status as among the most highly traded stocks in the world (the SUNW symbol shows up daily in the listings of most highly traded securities)." -- From the August 23, 2007 badly formatted article linked by Slashdot, Jonathan Schwartz's Weblog: The Rise of JAVA - The Retirement of SUNW, written by Sun CEO Jonathan Swartz.
Mr. Swartz, are you an imperial CEO like Gerald Levin of AOL Time Warner? (Time Warner's merging itself into AOL is considered the worst business decision of all time. The company immediately lost $88 Billion.) Mr. Levin called himself an "imperial CEO", meaning that he made decisions without consulting other people.
Mr. Swartz, if you don't have enough technical knowledge even to format your own web page, are you technically knowledgeable enough to run Sun? From the biography on Sun's web site: "Schwartz received degrees in economics and mathematics from Wesleyan University."
I don't believe it will actually happen, but if it does, by changing away from the strong brand of SUNW, known for serious servers, to a brand largely outside its control, Sun will weaken its position in the marketplace, in my opinion.
I don't think it is wise for technically knowledgeable people to work for companies managed by people with little or no technical knowledge. When technically ignorant managers try to run technically-oriented companies, a lot of unpredictable, weird things happen. Why take the risk?
Wow, performance comparable (by that you mean only half the speed of) a very slow webserver. How impressive! You also missed that part about how the JVM isn't written in java. Oops.
I used to work at a company whose ticker was CUM, Cummins Engine Company.
Is it April 1st?
Hulk SMASH Celiac Disease
Keep changing your mind.
Eventually, you might wind up with a better one.
Java: Brand Once, Market Everywhere.
...profit everywhere!
I humbly suggest 'RTFM' for any of the big Linux vendors. :)
He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
"You mean, the Java programs I write that run on Linux, BSD, Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, Windows, and AS/400 aren't actually working? You should have told me sooner! Maybe you can tell me how, exactly, they're not working, because they seem to be working fine!"
Oh really? Cause they actually don't work at all. Where is the netbsd/sparc jre? Where's the openbsd/arm jre? Portable doesn't mean "portable to wherever Sun has decided you can use it", it means "can be made to run anywhere". Python's VM and libraries are available on my openbsd/arm and netbsd/sparc machines, why isn't java's?
"Because we hear about buffer overflow exploits in Java programs leaving your machine vulnerable all the time? Oh, wait. We almost never hear about those."
Just because one kind of exploit isn't possible in java, doesn't mean java is secure. Its still vulnerable to plenty of other problems, and the JVM of course is still written in C and vulnerable to the same class of exploits as every other C program.
"Yeah, right. We'll look back and see how badly Java failed, because it only retained the #1 crown for a few decades (or more)."
No, we'll look back and remember fondly the shitty programming language that all the morons in "enterprise business apps" used. Just like we currently remember how great COBOL was right?
So does this mean Sun will still refuse to use JAVA on it's internal projects?
If that's the case, it's kind of incredible how much energy they spend getting everyone to try buying into a platform they know has flaws. If it were so great, they would use it themselves.
It powers Blue-Ray Disc menus/interactive content (BD-J), and is used in DVB and CableCard compliant set top boxes for interactive program guides, VoD ordering systems, etc.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Wheee! I wish BORL had traded as TPSCL.
Ridiculous.
This is a clear ploy to tie the stock to something that might drag it back to the 95-2000 glory days, where they'd hit USD 80, and split 2 or 3 ways - then immediately recover the price.
Oh, well. What do you expect when Schwartz believes that Star Office is one of the most recognised brands in the world? "It is to larf, mate!"
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
By some company that produces coffee/coffee beans?
I thought that one of those companies would have taken JAVA a long time ago.
Not to get off-topic, but... After having to listen to the fans on our 4 new V445's, I can think of a few other four-letter symbols for them. Though I can't actually hear myself think anymore...
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Can ticker symbols handle extended-ascii or UNICODE? I want my ticket symbol to be ЈẤүẠ♥
Let me get this straight. There is a language called Java, a platform called Java, a program called java, and now the trading symbol for Sun is JAVA. Oh, and don't forget the island. So you can write some Java to work with Java and run it with java while drinking java on the island of Java all while logged on to E-Trade to buy and sell some JAVA. And I thought, "Only perl can understand Perl", was bad enough.
This is the platform company that spent the 1990s evangelizing a language that makes it easy to write platform independent code. Java may be nice, but it was a butt-stupid move for a company that made its money in OSes and hardware.
By the late 90s Sun knew that the OS and hardware market was no longer available, Linux and FreeBSD were destined to take it. Sun realized that many buyers of its workstations did not really need anything Sun specific, they just needed a general purpose Unix box. PC hardware running Linux or FreeBSD had begun to fulfill this need. Sun had to find a new market.
Wow, perhaps they should be selling Java as a safe, all-digital male enhancement pill....
120 characters isn't enough to explain it.
The only reason to drop the "Sun" brand is because the company's execs think its brand isn't any good.
The only reason to rebrand the stock symbol as "Java" is because people in the stock industry know about "Java", because that's the market where Java has actually had some good success.
Sun is rebranding in that narrow market only to impress the stockbrokers (and daytrader stockbroker wannabes). That kind of system gaming, rather than building the Sun brand with better products or services, shows that Sun is desperate to promote its business without the underlying good business to promote.
I expect Sun will go the way of SGI. First Sun will become a SW-only company, after ramping down their HW into first only shrinking niche markets and then just add-in cards. Then they'll license Java and Solaris to others, rather than continue to invest in the R&D that earns them their trademark ownership. Then they will give up even that business, as they lose the leverage over competition and investors and employees look to more interesting places to work.
I'll miss Sun. Ever since it dedicated itself to owning Java rather than, say, making Solaris run Linux apps, or making Java/Sparc chips for mobile devices, I've already missed it. I just hope its downward spiral is graceful.
--
make install -not war
I want to have your children!
This is another example of why anyone who says, "I want to major in Marketing" should immediately be punched in the throat.
That's because ignorance requires no effort; it's the easiest way out. The method you talk about requires effort, and leads down the path to intelligence, which is hard work.
What moron at Sun came up with this?
Fuckwits.
Now I know I'll never invest with them
This is pointless. Expensive. Irritates your shareholders by making their accounting harder (mapping SUNW to JAVA). Gets you ZERO ZERO marketing advantage.
Fuckwits.
There is an old saying in business schools that incompetent managers when at a loss as to how to fix a company, settle on changing the name or logo instead. I guess we can now add the ticker symbol to the list.
Old info. M is now used for Macy's.
Java had promise, when almost everything was going to run it, from Javastations for thin clients to embedded Java and JINI.
.NET, where it will work without issue (unfortunately only on Windows machines) compared to the piss-poor state of "guess the JVM" with native Java. With JVMs the state they are now, I compile code on my Linux box, executables made there will throw random exceptions on Windows and vice versa, even with JVMs the same version.
.NET.
However, Java is highly fragmented. Your code may work perfectly under one JVM on one OS platform, but go from IBM's to Sun's, and random glitches happen. For example, you have no clue if your JCE crypto is full bits (128/256), 48 bits, or even zero bits during the time when France required no cryptography by law.
Sadly, in my experience, the best Java compiler for getting projects to work for classes was the now discontinued Microsoft's J#, and moving the Java code to
Of course, there is always the biggest problem with Java, and that's performance clientside (or the miserable lack of.) Even Microsoft got it right with
Sun needs to do something, or else even Adobe may be dropping a boot to their head with Flex when it gets out of beta and gets into mainstream.
Sun and Solaris are great names that have connotations of celestial harmony, duration, and power.
What they should have done (and probably still should) is take the rest of their naming to the same general area. There are names of planets, stars, galaxies, pulsars, quasars, constellations, plenty to choose from and all really great things to name products after.
Okay maybe not pluto or uranus.
Actually, no even those would be better than java.
Is the stock price going to stall now? At least I hope it doesn't crash ...
I think it's odd that they are changing their name to show that they are not just a workstation company anymore. So, they are trying to exude diversity. That's respectable. So, what do they do? They change their name from a general name to a specific technology. Rather than highlight their diversity, this decision strikes me as saying, "All that we do now is Java." Very odd choice. That said, it is a cool ticker symbol.
Wasn't the stock symbol SELL available?
--Shemnon
When they go out of business and people ask "why", they can just refer you to the ticker symbol.
This not a dig at Java as a language or platform, but rather as a business strategy.
".NET is a direct Java clone."
.NET is a direct clone of Java, it must be possible. How do you go about it?
Hey, great. I always wanted to use delegates in Java and since
Does anyone really care?
Eh, Java's a bit of a crappy language. I think Sun has Java'd the shark here.
they are only trying to catch a buzz
Java gives the suggestion of serious computer power, too!
Every time I visit a page with a Java applet, I think "Those guys at Sun must have some pretty sweet hardware, because no normal person would put up with waiting 30 seconds for a friggin' applet".
SCO needs a new symbol!
Some candidates follow:
ISUE
SHRT
SELL
TP
DOWN
Thanks for that heads up, won't have to buy viagra anymore!
I have unsuccessfully posted this question in the Ask Slashdot section before, but figured this would be a good venue -- I still cannot understand how Sun makes money from Java? It doesn't seem to be a side project, rather quite a large effort on their part...so what's in it for them?
Dude, just keep it straight - Apple is not APPL, but AAPL. My broker screwed me over with that mistake... :( Unfortunately that was last July, when I was attempting to buy the stock at 53. grrr
This sig donated to Pater. Long live
Here's another 4 letter word for the Sun guys I've met: PREP And that's the word for their downfall, too
Coarsely put yes, but Flamebait? No Not even close.
This also highlights the tradition of using four letter words at stock markets.
Defective by design?
Also, nothing to do with the Egyptian Sea Canal, but interesting:
ZUNE
ZUSE (N 270 deg clockwise, artistic modification)
SUEZ (rearrange)
Any links between M$, SUSE and *sues*?