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Teen Hacks $84 Million Porn Filter in 30 Minutes

An anonymous reader writes "Tom Wood, a Year 10 Australian student has cracked the federal government's $84-million Internet porn filter in just 30 minutes. He can deactivate the filter in several clicks in such a way that the software's icon is not deleted which will make his parents believe the filter is still working. Tom says it is a matter of time before some computer-savvy kid puts the bypass on the Internet for others to use."

479 comments

  1. b-b-b-but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    They said it'd take at least 10 years because they used the same cryptography in Blu-Ray!!!

    1. Re:b-b-b-but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's why they are so reluctant of allowing porn in Blu-ray. While all we get from breaking the lame DRM is hollywood crapiest, no one will be interested. Once there's porn to be seen, behind DRM...

    2. Re:b-b-b-but by Jules+Mercuri · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I realize this is mostly a joke but actually, 99% of porn DVDs have no region coding and some have no CSS copy-protection either.

    3. Re:b-b-b-but by notasheep · · Score: 4, Funny

      Not sure if I should be in awe of your knowledge of so many of the porn DVDs, or somewhat disturbed... ;)

      --
      Your mind looks a little cramped. Why don't you stretch it a little?
    4. Re:b-b-b-but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The filter's admin password was: 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0

    5. Re:b-b-b-but by eiapoce · · Score: 1

      They said it'd take at least 10 years because they used the same cryptography in Blu-Ray!!! Brilliant idea: hand the kids a bluray filled with porn on it and we'll get the encryption down in a matter of minutes ;)
    6. Re:b-b-b-but by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      and thanks to P2P and usenet, 99% of porn can be had for free.

    7. Re:b-b-b-but by Jules+Mercuri · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wow I definitely should have posted that anonymously, now anyone Googling for my name gets LOL I LUV PORN HURR HURR. Thanks, Slashdot!

    8. Re:b-b-b-but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and thanks to P2P and usenet, 99% of porn can be had for free.

      It's that 1% of porn that can't be had for free that's the good stuff. The other 99% is just a tease. ;-)

    9. Re:b-b-b-but by Meski · · Score: 1

      and thanks to P2P and usenet, 99% of porn can be had for free

      And is worth every cent of it.
    10. Re:b-b-b-but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because there isn't any "intellectual property" to protect.

  2. well its about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    well its about time...

  3. What an awesome photo on the news page by Lt.Hawkins · · Score: 5, Funny

    "We got Skynet by the balls now" sums it up quite nicely.

    --
    -- My Sig is a P228.
    1. Re:What an awesome photo on the news page by BlueParrot · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think you just increased the chance of that page getting slash-dotted by a bit ; )

    2. Re:What an awesome photo on the news page by JacksBrokenCode · · Score: 1

      "My Sig is a P228"

      Awesome sig (and Sig).

    3. Re:What an awesome photo on the news page by DiEx-15 · · Score: 1

      Amen!!

    4. Re:What an awesome photo on the news page by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't that pic from the Terminator 2 movie???

    5. Re:What an awesome photo on the news page by Lt.Hawkins · · Score: 1

      and thus the quote from that scene in the Terminator 2 movie. Clever, eh?

      --
      -- My Sig is a P228.
  4. Motivated Youth by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 5, Funny

    Keeping a teen from porn is like trying to keep Vervet monkeys out of the fields.
    Unless you are willing to shoot them, it is a lost cause.

    1. Re:Motivated Youth by click2005 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'd be prepared to shoot teens for the sake of morality.

      --
      I am a free slashdotter. I will not be modded, blogged, DRM'd, patented, podcasted or RFID'd. My life is my own.
    2. Re:Motivated Youth by FatSean · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm prepared to shoot moralizers for the sake of teens!

      --
      Blar.
    3. Re:Motivated Youth by jcr · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm in. When do we attack?

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    4. Re:Motivated Youth by mulhollandj · · Score: 5, Funny

      I strongly disagree. There are very effective ways to keep teens away from porn. They involve teaching a kid to respect themselves and others. It involves talking to your kids about these things. It involves teaching your kids correct principles when they are young and being a good parent. Is it possible to have your child never see porn? Probably not as there are many conspiring men who have their hearts set on addicting as many as they can but you can teach your kid never to go looking for it and what to do if he accidentally finds it.

    5. Re:Motivated Youth by gerbalblaste · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I do believe your confusing porn with something emotional and meaningfull, like say a relationship. Its a quick physical release, nothing more.

    6. Re:Motivated Youth by MyLongNickName · · Score: 0, Troll

      As soon as you move out of your parents' basement.

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    7. Re:Motivated Youth by thanatos_x · · Score: 4, Funny

      "I'd be prepared to shoot teens for the sake of morality."

      Yes! I mean, Who will think of the children?!

      Wait a minu...

      --
      I am not an expert. If I am misled in something, please correct me.
    8. Re:Motivated Youth by sqrt(2) · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're starting all of your thoughts at the idea that teens shouldn't be seeing porn. And to the core of that idea is that teens seeing porn is bad for them. I don't believe there's harm with kids old enough to want to see porn, seeing porn. Don't take my words to mean we should be encouraging it, or that we should make it easy for them to do so, but 84 million to STOP it? That's a little off the deep end of the morality pool for me, that money could have been used in much better ways.

      Your teenage children are going to see porn. They're going to look for it. The "Not MY kids!" mentality isn't helping either. Yes, even your perfect Christian soldier children are going to actively seek out and consume pornography at least once in their lives. Whether, and to the extent that they're able to repress that is determined by how much of your morality actually stuck when you were brainwashing them to feel guilty about perfectly natural and healthy things.

      But hey, keep on rocking in the free world, I'm not a parent and it's not my job to tell anyone else how to be one. I think I do have a bit more common sense than a lot of the people who do end up raising kids though. Sometimes I think it's a shame I wont have any of my own.

      I'm sensing a karma burn here, but what good is having it if you don't use it :P

      --
      If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
    9. Re:Motivated Youth by Vulva+R.+Thompson,+P · · Score: 1

      Surprisingly, www.teenvervetmonkeyporn.com is still available.

    10. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just think for a second. maybe the reason that is it so easy to crack is because they do want to shoot them, so to speak. maybe the reason it's so hackable is to make sure that they look powerless to stop it by filtering and are forced to go the next step. the same with a lot of drm.
       
      i know slashdotters like to pat themselves on the back over this but they're wrong. first, the average slashdotter doesn't do shit to be acting like they're part of the solution in the first place and secondly, they're so fast to scream defective by design and so fast to put on their tin foil caps but oddly enough never seem to do them at the same time. too bad, as they'll find out, that the jokes on them.

    11. Re:Motivated Youth by jcr · · Score: 2, Funny

      How are you planning to attack twenty-five years ago? Have you invented a time machine?

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    12. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is the single dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life (well probably not but close). What you are saying is "there are effective ways to enforce my own sense of super-conservative morals on kids". A teenager should be able to make that decission itself, there is nothing wrong with porno, not moraly, not ethicaly. Only thing wrong is parents trying to enforce kids into some kind of super conservative religious sanctity where a normal humans urges and curiousity is blinded and made into a bad thing.

      I also find it fun you said "there are many conspiring MEN who have their hearts.." seeing as females are the highest earners in the porn-industry and those treated the best I think you should maybe reconsider your ignorance a tad.

      God people like you make me want to take out my own fallos and slap it in your face to show you that nudity and the body is harmless.

    13. Re:Motivated Youth by MyLongNickName · · Score: 0, Troll

      But hey, keep on rocking in the free world, I'm not a parent and it's not my job to tell anyone else how to be one.

      Too late.

      I'm sensing a karma burn here, but what good is having it if you don't use it :P

      Ah, yes, by going with th 95% majority you will lose your precious karma.

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    14. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fallos

      If you are trying to sound super-intelligent by using scientific terminology, at least spell it right: phallus.

      Thanks.

    15. Re:Motivated Youth by cp.tar · · Score: 1

      Oh, well... I guess I was raised by freaks.

      Even when I was a kid, I knew where my parents kept their porn. (Living in a one-room apartment doesn't leave many places for hiding stuff anyway.)
      My parents, as far as I can tell, knew I was looking at it when I was home alone.

      They never raised the issue, and neither did I.

      Funnily enough, I can't say it's had a severely detrimental effect on my IQ, grades, social life or anything else. But it did help me relax at times of trouble ;)

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
    16. Re:Motivated Youth by feepness · · Score: 5, Funny

      Probably not as there are many conspiring men who have their hearts set on addicting as many as they can but you can teach your kid never to go looking for it and what to do if he accidentally finds it. And if you can't teach your child not to go looking for it, at least teach them to be smart enough to never have to pay for it. I mean, sheesh, this is 2007 people.
    17. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excellent Troll. You even got rated +5 informative. Good job! Kudos

    18. Re:Motivated Youth by glitch23 · · Score: 0, Troll

      I do believe your confusing porn with something emotional and meaningfull, like say a relationship. Its a quick physical release, nothing more.

      It's the hedonistic pleasure part of porn that is the problem. Teach children to not engage in materialistic pleasures and they won't be so interested in porn.

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
    19. Re:Motivated Youth by wootest · · Score: 1

      No, but I hear your employer has.

    20. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But.... its fun...

    21. Re:Motivated Youth by Rabbit+Time! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with teens looking at porn. But there are a couple important things to keep in mind, IMO:

      a) being exposed to too much porn without any actual, real sexual relationships to compare it to totally screws up your view of what actual sexual relationships are like. This is a good reason to try to limit young teens' porn consumption until they're a little older and have a little more experience. I know some people with seriously f-ed up ideas of how sex should be, or what they expect their partner to be cool with doing...simply because they watch too much porn and don't talk to enough actual women. Fantasy, people. It's fantasy.

      b) Weird, violent or just kind of sick porn is getting a lot easier to find and a lot more mainstream. While I, personally, think its totally fine for teens to look at pictures of naked people having sex in moderation, I think that its probably not that healthy for them to be looking at crazy-ass fetish stuff before they have the necessary experience to put it in context. This is not to say that I'm particularly opposed to porn that caters to various fetishes as long as they're made safely with consenting and not coerced performers...just that you need to take the basic class before you move to the advanced level, you know?

      This, actually...is why I kind of support making it harder for teens to look at porn, even though I don't really have an issue with it. Because that way, you know they'll figure out some way to get it anyway, but it will hopefully limit their consumption. Its like how when I got older I found out neither of my parents gave a crap about me smoking pot, and knew that I was, but fear of getting caught kept me from smoking too much of it or doing anything really dumb as a teenager. Maybe that's sort of hypocritical viewpoint, but I think its probably fairly practical, since trying to explain to a teenage boy why he should voluntarily control his porn consumption is just not going to work.

    22. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You know ... what made me search for porn in my youth is exactly the fact that my parents were trying to teach me to stay away from it.

      Hey, if they tell me to stay away it must be secretly gooooood....

    23. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't have sex until I was 25, and haven't since. That was 6 years ago. How much and what kind of porn should I be allowed to view then?

    24. Re:Motivated Youth by Iron+Condor · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm prepared to shoot moralizers for the sake of teens!

      I'm prepared to shoot teens for the sheer heck of it.

      --
      We're all born with nothing.
      If you die in debt, you're ahead.
    25. Re:Motivated Youth by fritsd · · Score: 1

      Aren't you confusing the hedonistic, pleasure part with the materialistic part? They are completely different issues, you know. Compare e.g. the behaviour of the "tub-boy", cosmopolite, and inventor of Cynicism, Diogenes who didn't "engage in materialistic pleasures" but from what is written about him might be quite interested in porn nevertheless ;-).

      --
      To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
    26. Re:Motivated Youth by kennygraham · · Score: 5, Funny

      So we should avoid something simply because it's pleasureful? Oh, wait, just saw your sig. That explains it. Carry on.

    27. Re:Motivated Youth by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

      Looking at porn every once in a while isn't going to hurt a kid. But if you let them watch porn in their bedrooms every night, they'll never be driven to talk to girls, and next thing you know their a 30 year old virgin slashdot poster, and Gord knows, no one wants that. You have to limit the porn enough to force them to talk to girls.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    28. Re:Motivated Youth by saskboy · · Score: 0, Redundant

      In Australia, only vervet monkeys disable porn filters.

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    29. Re:Motivated Youth by sethawoolley · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I do believe your confusing porn with something emotional and meaningful, like say a relationship. Its a quick physical release, nothing more.

      It's the hedonistic pleasure part of porn that is the problem. Teach children to not engage in materialistic pleasures and they won't be so interested in porn.

      That somebody might be happy... would be so bad for you, wouldn't it?

      As Nietzsche says, Christianity makes the whole of life repulsive.

      I for one, don't think pleasure is at all a bad thing. That meaningful relationships are much more pleasurable than porn means we really don't have to worry about it systematically, unlike your apothecary soul.

      I do worry, no I pity those who live life in constant repression.

      Just look at what you Christians cherish -- pity, guilt, sin -- not to mention guilt through inheritance, which no rational society anymore recognizes.

      May Christianity be the last, dying Hellenistic Mystery Religion.

    30. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see why people have such a big deal. If you want to limit your child's learning by putting a computer somewhere where they cannot be free to search out and learn about all things and interests; that is your own gd problem. That goes from "other" religious ideas, to learning about web design, to playing video games, to yes even watching some pr0n. Why don't you just take them out of school too, and throw away your tv; take them to church and never let them leave; lock them up in the basement or why did you even have the child to begin with? So you could control a mini version of yourself? People are animals, no more no less. If you can't admit that to yourself, then no wonder you have a problem with this and probably a lot of other things you waste time and energy on.

    31. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I honestly can not tell if you were angling for a funny mod, or being serious. I'm going to reply assuming the latter.

      First, and this is the part that made me suspect your intentions were for humor, it's entirely possible to fap without using pornography. So...take away their porn, and if they still don't want to talk to girls they're still not going to. Second, are you making the claim that pornography somehow fills the gap left from not having actual relationships, or are you claiming they attempt to use it as such? Either way it doesn't, and can't, and shouldn't. But even all of THAT is beside the point that it's really up to them if they want to have sex or not, masturbate or not, talk to girls. Or not. So I'm really having a hard time understanding just what it is you're trying to say here.

      And if it was just a joke, I apologize for wasting everyone's time.

    32. Re:Motivated Youth by m2943 · · Score: 1

      It involves teaching your kids correct principles when they are young

      Any attempt at parenting that involves "teaching principles" to young kids is doomed to failure.

      Ironically, it's kids raised by people like you who are probably the biggest customer base for the porn and sex industry, since those kids never learned what they needed to in order to keep out of trouble.

    33. Re:Motivated Youth by Paracelcus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's more constructive to keep kids away from military recruiters than porn.

      Alcohol causes thousands of times the chaos and heartache than all drugs put together!

      Religion has been responsible for more evil (death, destruction, torture, hate, misery) than porn will/can if it continues for one million years.

      --
      I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
    34. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It might be a quick release for you, but not all of us have that luxury.

    35. Re:Motivated Youth by icedcool · · Score: 1

      I think he was trying to be serious. Which makes it more funny.

      --
      Most people aren't thought about after they're gone. "I wonder where Rob got the plutonium" is better than most get.
    36. Re:Motivated Youth by Znork · · Score: 1

      "I think that its probably not that healthy for them to be looking at crazy-ass fetish stuff before they have the necessary experience to put it in context."

      Of course, if the teens in question are actually fetishists, they might find vanilla porn approximately as interesting and arousing as a straight male would find gay porn.

      "just that you need to take the basic class before you move to the advanced level, you know?"

      Unfortunately it's not that simple. While various paraphilias may have an overlap with mainstream sexual orientation and people can have an interest in both, just like bisexuals can have an interest in both sexes, it is by no means a necessity. While some paraphilias may be more 'advanced', and require more education to safely and sanely engage in, vanilla sex may not be the right intro class.

      Which makes internet resources, particularly the more serious ones, one of the most important educational tools in avoiding dangerous experimentation or preventing them from falling for various predators.

    37. Re:Motivated Youth by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

      I'm saying that it's a lot more fun to look at a live naked woman than a digital one.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    38. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No question, but that's not an option for everyone.

    39. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why is it still around, if it isn't forced upon people? -AC

    40. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There are so many other people who have the exact opposite feeling towards religion and Christianity in particular that I'll leave it up to you to realize that Nietzsche doesn't know what he is talking about and more likely has a biased opinion of something he knows nothing about."

      Sounds like you're the one who is expressing an opinion about something you know nothing about. The lack of past tense gives you away.

    41. Re:Motivated Youth by Arthur+B. · · Score: 1

      Hey I don't *need* pron, I can quit anytime I want!

      Seriously though, christianism does have a strong lean towards altruism and machosism.

      --
      \u262D = \u5350
    42. Re:Motivated Youth by UnrefinedLayman · · Score: 4, Funny

      Reminds me of Family Guy, when Meg learned some boys she liked were eunuchs:

      Boy 1: Hey, do you think that girl is hot?

      Boy 2: No!

      Boy 1: Me neither.

      (high five)

      Castrate your kids; save them from Internet porn.

    43. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In North Korea, only old people look at porn.

    44. Re:Motivated Youth by eat+here_get+gas · · Score: 1

      RE: "...Nietzsche doesn't know what he is talking about...." I'm looking through my modest library as I type. I can see 11 books either written by Nietzsche or written about him; and I can't find a single one by/about you. Since ignorant people do not usually get their rants printed and extensively quoted (at least during his time!)PLEASE fill me in....

      --
      the significance of a signature is insignificant
    45. Re:Motivated Youth by Bob+Gelumph · · Score: 2, Funny

      You really should have posted this AC.
      Some guys are coming.

      --
      I'm gonna need a spec.
    46. Re:Motivated Youth by junglee_iitk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      teach your kid never to go looking for it and what to do if he accidentally finds it.

      You teach your kid to masturbate?

      I bow to thee!
    47. Re:Motivated Youth by DrScotsman · · Score: 1

      a) being exposed to too much porn without any actual, real sexual relationships to compare it to totally screws up your view of what actual sexual relationships are like. This is a good reason to try to limit young teens' porn consumption until they're a little older and have a little more experience. I know some people with seriously f-ed up ideas of how sex should be, or what they expect their partner to be cool with doing...simply because they watch too much porn and don't talk to enough actual women. Fantasy, people. It's fantasy.

      That's not specific to viewing too much as a teen without experience.

      Chandler: I was just at the bank, and there was this really hot teller, and she didn't ask me to go do it with her in the vault.
      Joey: Same kind of thing happened to me! Woman pizza delivery guy come over, gives me the pizza, takes the money, and leaves!
      Chandler: What, no, "Nice apartment, I bet the bedrooms are huge?"
      Joey: Noo! Nothing!
      Chandler: Y'know what, we have to turn off the porn.
      Joey: I think you're right.
    48. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mulhollandj You really do live in a fantasy world don't you?

      All teens are interested in that sort of thing, hormones cause it.
      The ones you think are avoiding it just understand that you don't
      live in the real world and make sure you never know they are looking.
      You've probally also made them feel pretty guilty about it and that will
      probably cause them to become closet perverts later in life, just like you.

    49. Re:Motivated Youth by lymond01 · · Score: 1

      Reading some of these posts, I get the feeling some people forget why others think porn is bad. Some feel that it's degrading to women, that it just objectifies them (as in, makes them an inanimate object without feelings or thoughts) and then boys who become men move into the real world and carry on that tradition. Some women are fine with catcalls and whistles, many are not. And if people think that, "Hey, it's good for their ego!" then they haven't really moved past the objectifying stage.

      And then there's the people posing: you're driving a business that chooses women who feel they have nowhere else to go but showing off their bodies and dealing sex. Not that some porn stars aren't brain surgeons (off hand I can't name anyone, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt, given the number of porn stars), but they're making money using the lowest common denomination of work (corporate systems administrators notwithstanding).

      Anyway, those are some of the "real" concerns. Not that your kids going to show up at the doctors with an orange penis.

    50. Re:Motivated Youth by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Now, God gave us sex to not only enjoy but also procreate however those 2 goals are supposed to be done at the same time, not separate. This is the root of all your evil. It's false by the way and your own theology will prove it to so. Start with this question - do people have free-will because they have souls or in spite of having souls?
      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    51. Re:Motivated Youth by grassy_knoll · · Score: 1
      So from this:

      I know some people with seriously f-ed up ideas of how sex should be, or what they expect their partner to be cool with doing...simply because they watch too much porn and don't talk to enough actual women.


      I'm getting that bukkake on the first date is a bad thing?

      [badum-ching]
    52. Re:Motivated Youth by imagelesskink · · Score: 1
      NICE.

      This calls for something special...

      0U(H 8URN!!!!!!!!

    53. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      When I was a kid I didn't need porn and I didn't need to masturbate. All I needed was to visit my local priest and I could get a great BJ. So much for Christian morals.

    54. Re:Motivated Youth by icepick72 · · Score: 1

      Are you a grown up ... here on /. ? Oh shit you're not my parents are you ..

    55. Re:Motivated Youth by imagelesskink · · Score: 1

      WEAK.

      Then again I'm (sadly) still a virgin. :(

    56. Re:Motivated Youth by KylePflug · · Score: 1

      unlike your apothecary soul.
      I do not think that word means what you think it means.

      (s/apothecary/apocryphal)
    57. Re:Motivated Youth by KDR_11k · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sounds like a particularly vile fetish.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    58. Re:Motivated Youth by BVis · · Score: 1

      There you go, bringing reality into the argument then.

      Don't you know that hundreds of acts of fatal violence are fine, but ONE NIPPLE will drive us over the edge into anarchy? WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!?

      After all, it's much more important to deprive your child of any shred of privacy, attempt to micromanage their thoughts without teaching them to think for themselves, and ignore any actual conversation with them. It's much easier to have TV raise them; the technology is there, we should use it!

      Isn't it wonderful to live in an age where we don't have to waste any time on parenting; we can spend it all on protesting two consenting adults having sex on a computer screen!

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    59. Re:Motivated Youth by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

      A big reason it is not an option for some is that they got in the habit of watching porn every night and so aren't driven by hormones to overcome shyness.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    60. Re:Motivated Youth by jack455 · · Score: 2

      Alcohol causes thousands of times the chaos and heartache than all drugs put together! I've been close to heroin addicts and alcoholics; they're both sad but not to the same degree. Any truth in what you claimed boils down to alcohol being consumed by far more people than other drugs and when using both alcohol is usually used more often. If you remove pot from the question even more so. Compare alcohol to pot and I may agree with you although I don't like pot.

      Religion has been responsible for more evil (death, destruction, torture, hate, misery) than porn will/can if it continues for one million years. Without religion the death, destruction, etc. would have happened anyway in most cases, except where its structure misled people into valuing their own morality/judgment/ethics too highly. If a ruler desires to go to war they will find a way to do it, and I suspect religions are often expedient to the cause. That doesn't make religion the cause.
    61. Re:Motivated Youth by toriver · · Score: 1

      The lack of a sexual education, parents neglecting their duty to have "The Conversation" etc. is not caused by porn. It's not porn's problem.

      If a child is never taught that hitting people is wrong, and start hitting people after watching an action movie, should we ban the entire production of Bud Spencer and Terence Hill fisticuffs movies?

    62. Re:Motivated Youth by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      It is forced on them, just with psychological violence instead of physical. Repeatedly telling a child "if you do XY the big man in the sky will punish you for all eternity" will burn that belief into his mind since the child is meant to learn from the adult about the world around it. If the adult teaches a distorted world view the child will accept it since it knows nothing to question it.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    63. Re:Motivated Youth by banished · · Score: 1
      Yes, even your perfect Christian soldier children are going to actively seek out and consume pornography at least once in their lives.

      The perfect Islamic soldier children have a solution.

      All bow towards Mecca (and they aren't going to say, "Please.").

    64. Re:Motivated Youth by torkus · · Score: 1

      This assumes there is something "Wrong" with viewing porn. You can wax poetic about how it degrades women (though, wouldn't it also degrade men? double standard, meh) but that alleged degredation happened when the film or pictures were TAKEN. Nothing happens if 50 people view it or 500 or 5000. If 50,000,000 people view it that person is a porn star and, while the focus of many fantasies, that person is given as much attention as your celebrities and athletes.

      It's nothing more than a case of a group of people trying to impose their arbitrary morals on another group of people. "FOR THE CHILDREN" they cry. How about educating the parents and providing them with the tools, knowledge and time to educate their children. Educate them that porn, like cartoons, is scrpited, acted out, and has little to do with real life.

      Educate those children so they are prepared to make their own decisions. They will also make their own mistakes and learn from them with your support.

      Besides, does a person magically become able to safely view porn when the clock ticks over to 18 years? What exactly changes? What's done to prepare them? Zip.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    65. Re:Motivated Youth by NMerriam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They involve teaching a kid to respect themselves and others. It involves talking to your kids about these things. It involves teaching your kids correct principles when they are young and being a good parent. Is it possible to have your child never see porn? Probably not as there are many conspiring men who have their hearts set on addicting as many as they can but you can teach your kid never to go looking for it and what to do if he accidentally finds it.


      Or you could, you know, teach your kids that there's nothing shameful about their own bodies or appreciating the beauty of other people's bodies. Then when they grow up they won't need twenty years of therapy and a failed marriage to get over all the emotional turmoil you planted in their minds before they were able to defend themselves.

      I'm quite happy to watch porn with my girlfriend, it enhances our sex life and is sometimes a good catalyst for communication about our desires and needs.
      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    66. Re:Motivated Youth by NMerriam · · Score: 1

      It's the hedonistic pleasure part of porn that is the problem. Teach children to not engage in materialistic pleasures and they won't be so interested in porn.


      I agree completely. And be sure to cut off the clitoris of any females in your household, we don't want them to accidentally enjoy sex while it is being done to them.
      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    67. Re:Motivated Youth by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

      I don't know if that is the "root of all your evil", but that might be one of the closer truths I've heard from Christians. If reproduction was painful, I'd wager the human species would not be so nearly plentiful. It just makes evolutionary sense to encourage reproduction.

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

    68. Re:Motivated Youth by retrogameguy · · Score: 0

      I agree. Where is the 84 million to block Bible Bashers with there sexually repression agendas? More lives have been screwed up through religion than porn. Block them.

    69. Re:Motivated Youth by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      It works for some things. I know I did avoid many things others learned through painful experience because I was taught they're bad.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    70. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "even your perfect Christian soldier children"

      You mean there's a mainstream religion out there that endorses porn?

      You reveal your bigotry.

    71. Re:Motivated Youth by NMerriam · · Score: 5, Insightful

      being exposed to too much porn without any actual, real sexual relationships to compare it to totally screws up your view of what actual sexual relationships are like. This is a good reason to try to limit young teens' porn consumption until they're a little older and have a little more experience. I know some people with seriously f-ed up ideas of how sex should be, or what they expect their partner to be cool with doing...simply because they watch too much porn and don't talk to enough actual women. Fantasy, people. It's fantasy.


      Except, I'd say in my experience and those I've know, that romantic movies do FAR more damage to young people's expectations of how real life relationships and sex work. The idea that sex is always some beautifully choreographed, slow-motion event ending in simultaneous orgasm makes LOTS of people think they're doing something "wrong" when they first have sex.

      And the vast majority of romance movies, if looked at objectively, basically encourage the notion of relentless pursuit through any means of trickery and illegal activity, no matter how many times the object of your affection says no. Because if you just stalk her enough, eventually she'll realize you're her perfect man! in terms of danger, I'd say that's a MUCH worse idea to put in kids' heads than the idea that maybe they'll meet a girl who likes to blow horses.

      Of course I'm not saying we should censor Meg Ryan films so that kids don't get an inappropriate view of romance, just that in real-life relationship terms it is pretty easy for most self-aware teens to understand what is unrealistic about porn.
      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    72. Re:Motivated Youth by jcr · · Score: 1

      I'm self-employed, and that's news to me. So far, I'm not even working on one.

      What year did you post from?

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    73. Re:Motivated Youth by NMerriam · · Score: 1

      Even when I was a kid, I knew where my parents kept their porn. (Living in a one-room apartment doesn't leave many places for hiding stuff anyway.)
      My parents, as far as I can tell, knew I was looking at it when I was home alone.

      They never raised the issue, and neither did I.


      It's funny, my parents had all of their adult educational stuff on a bookshelf we could easily get at (it definitely wasn't porn, though to an insatiably curious 12 year old, "Our Bodies, Ourselves" and "The Joy of Sex" are still akin to the holy grail) and we thought we were so sneaky running off with it for a day or two and studying every word and picture.

      A couple of years ago (now that we're all healthy adults in our 30s and 40s) my mom happened to mention that they left that stuff there on purpose because they wanted us to be able to take our time learning about it at our own pace when we were curious. Grown-ups are sneakier than we give them credit for sometimes :)
      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    74. Re:Motivated Youth by glitch23 · · Score: 1, Troll

      I agree completely. And be sure to cut off the clitoris of any females in your household, we don't want them to accidentally enjoy sex while it is being done to them.

      Hmmm, must be something in the water supply because it seems people on here can't distinguish between getting pleasure from porn by yourself and pleasure from sex with a spouse. I never said a person can't enjoy sex. The issue is about enjoying porn anyway but since you brought it up I'll respond by saying that sex is both for procreation and for pleasure but we shouldn't separate the pleasure from that and use sex solely for that reason. Of course, those who don't look at the bigger picture and just want pleasure will say that is a horrible idea and to that I say that if you can't even entertain the idea that sex shouldn't be used solely for pleasure then don't even bother joining in this conversation. Sex is not inherently a materialistic pleasure and thus is not included in my statement that we should teach children to not engage in materalistic pleasures. We treat sex as such but it is not one inherently. Of course, the people who make the porn movies are the epitomy of turning sex into merely a pleasure act. If you think about it, it wouldn't have been very wise of God to allow us to procreate but make it painful to do so. We wouldn't have survived very long.

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
    75. Re:Motivated Youth by JasonEngel · · Score: 1

      You have obviously never been the parent of a teenager before.

    76. Re:Motivated Youth by glitch23 · · Score: 0, Troll

      So we should avoid something simply because it's pleasureful? Oh, wait, just saw your sig. That explains it. Carry on.

      Sure if you are an idiot and don't know how to control yourself. Oh wait, you did respond with a knee jerk reaction to my post. Nevermind. Carry on. Before you go, let me leave you with something. Too much pleasure is a bad thing if it means you are addicted to it (porn, money, etc.) and it affects your life and relationships. Therefore pleasure is good as long as it is received responsibly. Taking pleasure in something that was not meant solely for that (sex) is not a good thing because you devalue it. Endorsing that behavior (watching porn) devalues sex as well and in addition you end up taking pleasure in yourself. It's a little bit akin to vanity in my opinion. We wouldn't want kids to prefer pleasuring themselves over someone else (when watching porn) not to mention the fact that they are abusing the method we were given to procreate in order to accomplish their materalistic goals.

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
    77. Re:Motivated Youth by NMerriam · · Score: 1

      it seems people on here can't distinguish between getting pleasure from porn by yourself and pleasure from sex with a spouse.


      It seems people on here can't imagine that you can get pleasure from porn WHILE having sex with a spouse. Porn and real relationships are not mutually exclusive.

      If you have to treat something most people enjoy as if it were a shameful, solitary activity to be indulged in secret and then regretted afterwards, you're not in a very healthy place. And I don't care if you're talking about porn or playing golf.
      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    78. Re:Motivated Youth by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 1

      many conspiring men who have their hearts set on addicting

      Errrr, let me remove the seixism in the above comment for you:

      many conspiring people who have their hearts set on addicting

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
    79. Re:Motivated Youth by sethawoolley · · Score: 1

      unlike your apothecary soul.
      I do not think that word means what you think it means. (s/apothecary/apocryphal) To be consistent, I was borrowing a phrase from Nietzsche's 75 Aphorisms, but I'll give you the context: ;)

      The certain prospect of death could sweeten every life with a precious and fragrant drop of levity--and now you strange apothecary souls have turned it into an ill-tasting drop of poison that makes the whole of life repulsive.
      He referred to Christians as apothecaries, metaphorically, mixing poison that makes this life so bad -- to get people to think the next life will be better.
    80. Re:Motivated Youth by Bearhouse · · Score: 1

      Urm, maybe we don't have the same bibles at home, but I had a pretty heavy dose of christianity, (yup, small c), whilst a kid, and I don't remember that the main message was about avoiding materialistic pleasures. I think it was - and is - about love, honesty, mutual respect and understanding...

      "Just say no', well, "just does not work". I've got 4 teenage kids, and they seem to be doing OK.

      Maybe that's because my wife and I talk with them about what you can and should do to have a full and happy life, rather than what you should not do. I think that the time when people were frightened into compliance with threats of 'eternal damnation' has passed, thank God, (yeah, he gets a big G). Sure, masturbating over a bunch of porn, (a very man thing), could be viewed as 'wrong', but I'd rather explain to my kids how much better making love with a real person - who loves you - is.

      Did not Jesus enjoy having his feet washed? That's pretty material and pleasurable, I think. Do I feel guilty, when, having earned an honest buck by working hard, I'm eating an indulgent meal with my family and friends in a good restaurent? Hell no!

    81. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      a) being exposed to too much porn without any actual, real sexual relationships to compare it to totally screws up your view of what actual sexual relationships are like. Um. Why not let your children see you and your spouse existing in a positive sexual relationship? They don't have to watch - they just have to see you grin at eachother occasionally, or kiss with something resembling actual, yaknow, passion. Healthy sex between the parents seems likely to inspire healthy sex in the kid, when he or she grows up. Where else are they going to get their sexual education, their classmates? The TV? You and the spouse have the real thing, and they're going to want to emulate you when they grow up.
    82. Re:Motivated Youth by Count+Porkula · · Score: 0, Troll

      Typical liberal, stupid skank that can't think beyond the end of her perceived oppression. Blame men for all the ills of the world rather than think for yourself or God forbid, actually take responsibility for your own actions. YOU are what's wrong with this world. At least the Muslims keep bitches like you in line.

    83. Re:Motivated Youth by sethawoolley · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That somebody might be happy... would be so bad for you, wouldn't it?

      I'll respond to your post since there is more to say and I can reply to yours and the other one at the same time for one of my answers. First, nothing nor no one (such as myself) says a person can't be happy. I only was talking about not getting pleasure from porn. Are you implying that you have no other source of pleasure? I feel bad for you.

      In Christianity, pleasure is only good if it aligns with somebody else's pleasure for its their gain -- the religion's mythical (and surrogate) headmasters.

      Any incidental pleasure is always denied because it takes joy away from life, and if joy can only be found within the fold, all the better for the psychological meme of religion.

      As Nietzsche says, Christianity makes the whole of life repulsive.

      There are so many other people who have the exact opposite feeling towards religion and Christianity in particular that I'll leave it up to you to realize that Nietzsche doesn't know what he is talking about and more likely has a biased opinion of something he knows nothing about.

      Others have already pointed out that you must not know who Nietzsche was.

      I for one, don't think pleasure is at all a bad thing. That meaningful relationships are much more pleasurable than porn means we really don't have to worry about it systematically, unlike your apothecary soul.

      Hmm, seems you need to fix your reading comprehension problems. I never said that pleasure in and of itself is bad. I said pleasure from porn is bad.

      Because it's pleasure not found in alignment with your religion. The pleasures are so small and so restricted to brainwashing, that ultimately the pleasures are very few. About the only acceptable pleasure is making future brainwashed offspring, and even then, religion has historically debated the merit of such pleasure.

      I'll pause for a few seconds while you re-read my post now with that context in place......................back? Ok, good. Now, God gave us sex to not only enjoy but also procreate however those 2 goals are supposed to be done at the same time, not separate. We shouldn't take advantage of the procreation capability to just enjoy meaningless sex. That's where the issue of pleasure comes from. There are millions of things to take pleasure in but taking ONLY pleasure in something like sex is not it's intended purpose. Of course, we humans will mutate anything for our own pleasure (quite relevant in this case). How often we have watched horrific violence time and again because we find it entertaining? This particular topic of porn was in the context of children watching it on the Internet and not adults watching it to enhance their sex lives so with that said why would someone want to watch something alone and get pleasure out of it when they could enjoy it more if they could share it with someone? Again, humans are lazy so we take the easy way out. We'll pleasure ourselves because it is just too time consuming to find someone to enjoy it with. I can't imagine what will happen in 2029.

      When children get sexual urges, you would have them restrict them for years. That's repression.

      I do worry, no I pity those who live life in constant repression.

      I do too but I also am not that interested in the materliastic aspects of this world to which you think exposure helps someone become unrepressed. They really aren't that great in the whole scheme of things. Sure, if you are a mindless drone you will take part in those things solely for their immediate rewards but more intelligent people will look past the immediate pleasure and see the greater good.

      Again, materialism is by definition, anything not aligned with your religion, so you are implicitly being anti-worldly, and anti-pleasure of anything not "spiritual".

    84. Re:Motivated Youth by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      BitingBeaver, is that you?!

    85. Re:Motivated Youth by NMerriam · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Taking pleasure in something that was not meant solely for that (sex) is not a good thing because you devalue it.


      I agree. That's why I force my children to eat nothing but pureed wheat germ. They should certainly never take pleasure in eating because doing so devalues the biological importance of proper nutrition.
      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    86. Re:Motivated Youth by m2943 · · Score: 1

      I don't understand how "looking at porn is bad" is going to keep kids from having a painful experience. Looking at porn is not painful, so mostly what you're achieving by telling kids that "looking at porn is bad" is that you're not telling them the truth.

    87. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the hedonistic pleasure part of porn that is the problem.

      Why is this a problem? Why is pleasuring oneself while looking at people engaged in sexual activity wrong? Guess what? It's not! That's just some Puritan garbage that has forced its way into your skull.

    88. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're scaring me.

    89. Re:Motivated Youth by Darth · · Score: 2, Funny

      considering porn is a 6 billion dollar a year industry in the U.S. alone, it doesn't seem to be devaluing sex much.

      --
      Darth --
      Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
    90. Re:Motivated Youth by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      If reproduction was painful, I'd wager the human species would not be so nearly plentiful. It just makes evolutionary sense to encourage reproduction. Sure, procreation is fun.
      But to say that the fun is only for procreation is the theological falsehood.
      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    91. Re:Motivated Youth by Jerry+Beasters · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're still claiming that sex should have or does have some "value" of which it loses. That's a personal belief, not fact, and that has nothing to do with other people.

    92. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thankyou. That's the most reasoned view of the subject I've seen in the comments so far.
      I agree entirely. We should concentrate more on controlling access to the more extreme side of porn.
      Unfortunately we have an election coming up, and it's the conservatives in power, looking for more conservative votes :)

    93. Re:Motivated Youth by wootest · · Score: 1

      Aren't you with Apple?

    94. Re:Motivated Youth by $uperjay · · Score: 1

      This is quite possibly the finest trolling I have seen on Slashdot in years.

    95. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um no. That doesn't work.

      If a kid wants to see porn, he/she will see porn. You simply can't stop him. You can't brainwash (the term doesn't imply veracity btw) him either way, he's going to think it's wonderful or horrible based on his own experiences and personality.
      You can definitely slow him down (not necessarily a bad thing) and you can definitely make him see, not agree with, your view point on the matter. But in the end either his brain, respect for the participants, or hormones will win out; and during your teen years your hormones are the part that's peaked.

      And yes, there are definitely scumbags out there trying to sell the stuff to anyone they can get to catch a glimpse: That's how you sell something that appeals to hormones and nothing else.
      And yes, they're predominantly men: That fact is changing somewhat: IIRC Vivid is owned by Jenna Jameson, for example.

      Basically, this long winded rant is saying: You can't force your morals on your kid. If they're rebellious the more you force your morals on them the more they'll ignore you. It's actually a healthy stage of human development; it's the kids who miss that stage who seem to get stuck at about 30 years old and can't figure why girls/guys don't want them inside their mother's basement...

      A watchful eye and a series of short explanations on the subject is probably your best bet to keep them mostly out of it.
      It's funny, a lot of kids now have to keep their door open or keep the computer in the living room almost as if it were a member of the opposite gender. (I'm not saying this is a bad idea).

    96. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's quite simple: we are putting a monetary value on sex which devalues it (in a non-monetary fashion).

    97. Re:Motivated Youth by Jaidan · · Score: 1

      And I bet you would ban contraceptives too if you had the chance right?

    98. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I understand. Seeing the truth can be very eye-opening. Admitting it is even worse especially when you are a member of this site.

    99. Re:Motivated Youth by notasheep · · Score: 1

      "Talk about blind. If you are not a Christian you have no way of knowing what we cherish. We cherish happiness, pleasure (not hedonistic or materialistic), and many others. The difference is we don't need to have porn nor other things that mindless drones need in order to be happy. I guess this world has to cater to all beings (especially with being politically correct and all) so porn was invented so that people like you who need something more materialistic can be happy and thus pleasured. Oh, and until you become a Christian (fat chance I'm sure) don't tell me what we cherish because you know nothing and you have graciously proven that to me. Thank you."

      Sorry, but that's a horrible argument. You don't have to be a Christian to understand the dogma and workings of the Christian mythological belief systems. And if you don't believe the Christian community isn't full of "mindless drones" you'll be reminded during the next election when a good deal many of you will cast your vote for the preacher/priest-approved candidate. Which will doubtless be whoever they believe will help them maintain their position of power and influence in their community.

      And, finally, porn wasn't invented by anybody. It's been around as long as people have. (Way longer than 5,000 years for you creationists...)

      --
      Your mind looks a little cramped. Why don't you stretch it a little?
    100. Re:Motivated Youth by NMerriam · · Score: 1, Insightful

      taking pleasure in something is not inherently bad however if you are addicted to it and/or it affects your life then there is a problem.


      Where has anyone ever disagreed with that? It's exactly what we've all been saying.

      You're the only one who has labeled porn as inherently bad and destructive, due apparently to your religious beliefs.
      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    101. Re:Motivated Youth by CrankyOldBastard · · Score: 1
      Nobody needs porn, but it's not "needing" it that's at issue. It's choice. You would take choices away if you had the power. Ironic since we supposedly have free will.

      Actually, for some people porn is addictive, and it can cause some people incapable of sexual behaviour without the use of porn. These people seem to me to pretty much 'need' porn.

      The choice issue is usually abused by all sides of this argument. Informed Choice is a good thing. Kids are not always terribly good at informed decisions. Christianity can provide one way of defining moral boundaries to use as a guide to making informed choices. Unfortunately the Lunatic Fringe in Christianity (which seems to dominate moral debate in the USA) seems to prefer the approach of Prohibition and Protection. Similarly the Humanist Philosophers can also provide some tools to help us deal with life's complexities. But treating Christianity as no more than a Greek Mystery Cult stitched onto liberal Judaism is just as flawed as considering Nietzsche divorced from the social and personal context within which he wrote. It is many years since I read Nietzsche, but it would seem to me that his idealisation of Humanity is entirely consistent with the idea that porn often undermines the dignity of a human, and that education of the deeper issues is the key to making better choices.

      If however you idolise Nietzsche because he said some catchy things about some expressions of Christianity, and have missed what he was saying about human potential, then you are very similar to the Bible thumping Fundies you so clearly despise (and I have to agree that those people do seem to have taken the path that avoidance of all potential evil is better than resisting it).

    102. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a) being exposed to too much porn without any actual, real sexual relationships to compare it to totally screws up your view of what actual sexual relationships are like.

      This is where edumacation comes in. How many teachers could $84,000,000 have paid for? And that's both teachers for the kids, and for the parents.. There's no magic (porn-stopping) button when it comes to raising children.

      b) Weird, violent or just kind of sick porn is getting a lot easier to find and a lot more mainstream. While I, personally, think its totally fine for teens to look at pictures of naked people having sex in moderation, I think that its probably not that healthy for them to be looking at crazy-ass fetish stuff before they have the necessary experience to put it in context.

      If someone is educated properly, by parents, school and peers, they'll know that it's not the best idea to donkey-punch someone you're having sex with, or to avoid pulling out and pissing in their face. These are fairly social norms; you don't punch someone or excrete on them without their permission. If you know that some people find these things pleasurable, and your partner agrees to try them, then it's not for you to judge what's too wierd or too sick for them to do in their bedroom.


      I think that protecting youngsters from accidentally stumbling across some cum-guzzling, ass-pounding popups is a very good idea. I don't think that inflecting morality by stopping someone from seeing something completely legal that they want to see is a good idea. For how long have kids been stumbling across their parents', or siblings', stash of porn?

    103. Re:Motivated Youth by CrankyOldBastard · · Score: 1

      Anything can make the whole of life repulsive. Best to read Nietzsche's comments in the context of his time place and circumstance, as their are plenty of people who find Christianity improves their quality of life. I've always thought that Nietzsche had the flaw of tending to deal in absolutes, although this might be an artifact of translation. I know that the Fundamentalist Loony Fringe suffers from that exact problem - absolutism as an artifact of translation.

    104. Re:Motivated Youth by White+Shade · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You pretty much said what I was going to say...

      The only situation in which porn is really a bad thing is when no one has ever taught the kid about how life really is, what sex actually is, and things of that nature. A kid whose first introduction to sex is by seeing porn either by themselves or being introduced to it by a friend, has a good chance of getting some sort of warped ideas; either insecurity about their own bodies (men and women both!) or by getting unrealistic and messed up assumptions about what sex is actually like.

      However, if you teach a kid about respecting people, self esteem, and how to treat people, and at least a little bit about how relationships actually work, then if they see porn, then they'll have the context in which to understand it. They'll just take it for the entertainment that it's supposed to be, and they'll know not to apply what they 'learn' from porn to real life. Even the sick shit; if the kid knows that some people are 'in' to really weird shit, and that in a controlled environment even the weird shit is okay, then the worst that'll happen to the kid is that he'll get a good laugh and be like "ew I NEVER want to do that". Or he'll be interested by it, and will have been raised in an emotionally supportive environment and will hopefully understand how to be safe.

      In some ways, highly conservative families might actually be right in thinking that porn is dangerous for kids; their OWN kids at least. I would tend to believe that many of the families that bitch about how dangerous porn is, probably don't have an open and honest communication with their kids about sexuality, and so when (not if) their kids see the porn, they're going to probably have problems because of it. They're creating their own nightmare scenario.

      It is pretty sad though. It would be nice if humanity would grow up and realize that porn is a heck of a lot of fun and that there are other things to be concerned about besides some cock and balls and boobies.

      --
      ìì!
    105. Re:Motivated Youth by bluephone · · Score: 1

      I half agree with you. I would say good parenting before the fact is more effective than filters after the fact. People depend on filters because they are ineffective parents and have no trust in their parenting skills nor their children. A good parent will put a rational amount of trust in their child because they feel they have done the right thing when teaching their child, and won't feel the need for computer filters/logs, GPS trackers on the car, breathalyzer tests at home, etc. A good parent teaches their child, a poor parent imprisons their child.

      That being said, porn is not in and of itself bad. Try teaching your kid about it rather than hiding them from it, and maiking it the forbidden fruit. Knowledge is power. Ignorance is danger.

      --
      jX [ Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler. - Einstein ]
    106. Re:Motivated Youth by kaizokuace · · Score: 1

      And if you can't teach your child not to go looking for it, at least teach them to be smart enough to never have to pay for it.

      fo seryus!
      --
      Balderdash!
    107. Re:Motivated Youth by xtracto · · Score: 1

      Howdy shit we are in front of one of those Red Neck Christian extremists trying to put their ideology down our throats...

      I always enjoy reading these posts... they make me laugh (I am an atheist so... I guess I will go to hell)

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    108. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you liked that you'll really get a kick out of the fact that I've never actually had a girlfriend. The one girl I had sex with at 25 is the only person I've ever done anything with physically, including kiss. Also, she pretty much did it just because I was 25 and was completely inexperienced. So, bless her, but it really didn't fix anything for me.

      Also, I don't watch porn now, and wasn't exposed to it as a child. Take from that what you will...

    109. Re:Motivated Youth by darthdavid · · Score: 0

      "An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will" - The Wiccan Rede You reveal your ignorance

    110. Re:Motivated Youth by jcr · · Score: 1

      Aren't you with Apple?

      Not lately.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    111. Re:Motivated Youth by DMadCat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Too much pleasure is a bad thing if it means you are addicted to it (porn, money, etc.) and it affects your life and relationships.

      Does this include taking pleasure in religious worship?

    112. Re:Motivated Youth by tedrlord · · Score: 1

      What I love is that the whole concept of "pleasures of the flesh" being grave sin in and of themselves is an import from St. Augustine's former gnosticism, which the church has always viewed as a heretic and blasphemous religion. Damn gnostics.

      --
      [insert witty quote here]
    113. Re:Motivated Youth by Cruxus · · Score: 1

      How do you think these kids develop these paraphilias? Most paraphilias are not genetically determined sexual orientations in the way that heterosexuality, homosexuality, or bisexuality is but rather the result of psychological conditioning (for one reason or another, they have a fantasy about something and sexuality somehow gets mixed in there; they masturbate; and their paraphilia thus becomes reinforced). Oftentimes the initial paraphilic stimulus is coincidental; some nontypical sexual object is environmentally present during sexual arousal. This is much like how when a person smells cookies baking, they are reminded of grandma's house.

      --
      On vit, on code et puis on meurt.
    114. Re:Motivated Youth by AJWM · · Score: 1

      Grown-ups are sneakier than we give them credit for sometimes :)

      Surprisingly, most grown ups were kids themselves once. Often as not it's remembering some of the things they did themselves as kids that scares the willies out of parents. And as a parent myself, I have to wonder how much of what I thought I got away with as a kid was just my parents choosing to turn a blind eye to it.

      --
      -- Alastair
    115. Re:Motivated Youth by sqrt(2) · · Score: 1

      I don't really believe that. Taking away the porn isn't going to get the shy kid to step out and try for the real thing, like the GP said you don't need porn to masturbate. Also, having porn isn't going to stop a non-shy kid from seeking real relationships either. I think the effects are mostly neutral, which is why it's possible to find or craft evidence to support either extreme viewpoint because there really is no effect at all. Which direction you go with it shows more about the person's own preconceived biases than anything.

      --
      If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
    116. Re:Motivated Youth by Riktov · · Score: 1

      >>
      you can teach your kid never to go looking for it and what to do if he accidentally finds it.
      >>

      I think most boys quickly figure out on their own what to do when they find porn...

    117. Re:Motivated Youth by fatalGlory · · Score: 1, Insightful

      When children get sexual urges, you would have them restrict them for years. That's repression.

      One trouble with this view, it assumes that all [sexual] urges are good and healthy. This may not be the case. Rape starts as a sexual urge - I think we can agree that this urge should definitely be restricted! Maybe porn and masturbation are less extreme and only hurt the self rather than another person, but that still doesn't necessarily make them a good and healthy thing to do.
      --
      Censorship is the opposite of education. If neo-darwinism were defensible, people would not need to try and censor ID.
    118. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, my mother repeatedly telling me not to look at porn made me wonder what it was all about. Even after years on the internet I had never bother but for some reason my mother decided to start nagging about it so I decided to start looking for it. One must ask the question if it wasn't forever put in their face like a challenge to be overcome (e.g. defeating a porn filter), would there be as many people looking at things? Or would the "problem" be less (it would still exist for obvious reasons but really shoving something in peoples faces repeatedly does get their attention).

    119. Re:Motivated Youth by Dekortage · · Score: 0

      I do believe your confusing porn with something emotional and meaningfull, like say a relationship. Its a quick physical release, nothing more.

      I'm not going to suggest that porn doesn't feel good. But you imply that it is emotionless and meaningless, which is absurd. Porn affects your thoughts, your perspectives and attitudes regarding other people (as well as yourself), and the things you may expect or attempt when actually engaged in sex (as opposed to just watching it on video). This has consequences, which are frequently negative (PDF).

      Anyway, whether you agree or not, here's a Wired article for the discussion...

      Internet Porn: Worse Than Crack?

      http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2004 /11/65772

      Internet pornography is the new crack cocaine, leading to addiction, misogyny, pedophilia, boob jobs and erectile dysfunction, according to clinicians and researchers testifying before a Senate committee Thursday.

      Witnesses before the Senate Commerce Committee's Science, Technology and Space Subcommittee spared no superlative in their description of the negative effects of pornography.

      Mary Anne Layden, co-director of the Sexual Trauma and Psychopathology Program at the University of Pennsylvania's Center for Cognitive Therapy, called porn the "most concerning thing to psychological health that I know of existing today."

      "The internet is a perfect drug delivery system because you are anonymous, aroused and have role models for these behaviors," Layden said. "To have drug pumped into your house 24/7, free, and children know how to use it better than grown-ups know how to use it -- it's a perfect delivery system if we want to have a whole generation of young addicts who will never have the drug out of their mind."

      Pornography addicts have a more difficult time recovering from their addiction than cocaine addicts, since coke users can get the drug out of their system, but pornographic images stay in the brain forever, Layden said.

      Jeffrey Satinover, a psychiatrist and advisor to the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality echoed Layden's concern about the internet and the somatic effects of pornography.

      "Pornography really does, unlike other addictions, biologically cause direct release of the most perfect addictive substance," Satinover said. "That is, it causes masturbation, which causes release of the naturally occurring opioids. It does what heroin can't do, in effect."

      The internet is dangerous because it removes the inefficiency in the delivery of pornography, making porn much more ubiquitous than in the days when guys in trench coats would sell nudie postcards, Satinover said.

      Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kansas), the subcommittee's chairman, called the hearing the most disturbing one he'd ever seen in the Senate. Brownback said porn was ubiquitous now, compared to when he was growing up and "some guy would sneak a magazine in somewhere and show some of us, but you had to find him at the right time."

      The hearing came just days after a controversy over a sexually suggestive Monday Night Football ad that has many foreseeing a crackdown on indecency by the Federal Communications Commission.

      It is unclear what the consequences of Thursday's hearing will be since it was not connected to any pending or proposed legislation.

      Brownback, a conservative Christian, is also scheduled to be rotated off the sub-committee in the next session.

      When Brownback asked the panelists for suggestions about what should be done, the responses were mild, considering their earlier indictment of pornography. Several suggested that federal money be alloc

      --
      $nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
    120. Re:Motivated Youth by kennygraham · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure if you are an idiot and don't know how to control yourself.

      Agreed. Like most things, porn should be in moderation.

      Too much pleasure is a bad thing if it means you are addicted to it (porn, money, etc.) and it affects your life and relationships. Therefore pleasure is good as long as it is received responsibly.

      Agreed again.

      Taking pleasure in something that was not meant solely for that (sex) is not a good thing because you devalue it.

      However, there's one gaping flaw with that reasoning (the Natural Law argument). It means all sex that's not for the purpose of procreation is bad. So I hope you never use birth control or condoms.

      Side note: Wow, you think taking pleasure in sex is bad? I feel sad for your wife if you have one.

      Endorsing that behavior (watching porn) devalues sex as well and in addition you end up taking pleasure in yourself.

      I think the largest value of sex comes from its pleasure. If everybody had a kid every time they had sex... wow.

      It's a little bit akin to vanity in my opinion. We wouldn't want kids to prefer pleasuring themselves over someone else (when watching porn)

      I've yet to meet anyone who prefers porn to actual sex. And most of my friends watch a LOT of porn (that's why I'm on slashdot).

      not to mention the fact that they are abusing the method we were given to procreate in order to accomplish their materalistic goals.

      As I said above, that makes all contraception is immoral. But to take it from a different angle... what purpose does the clitoris serve in your world-view? Its only function is to make sex pleasureful for the woman.

    121. Re:Motivated Youth by ArcherB · · Score: 1

      I strongly disagree. There are very effective ways to keep teens away from porn. They involve teaching a kid to respect themselves and others.

      Yeah, that works real well until your 15-yr-old's gf/bf dumps him/her for a new partner who is 21, has a car, their own place, can buy beer and puts out regularly. This usually happens right before that "respect yourself and others" bullshit goes out the window.

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    122. Re:Motivated Youth by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1
      To finish your sig, "neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites (10) nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God."

      I don't see porn mentioned anywhere. What I do see is slanderers. Be careful which sinners you cast your aspersions on, lest you commit the graver sin. Be wary of calling others mindless drones, judging them solely by their membership in a church. Was it not Jesus himself who pointed out the corruption and wretchedness in the temples and churches, the sins of the priests to think they are above all of Gods children. You might also notice that conspicuously missing from the list is female prostitutes...

      The naked human form is the most beautiful of Gods creations, especially boobies. Nudity is not shameful or a sin unless you're a stuck up guilt tripper, like the GP suggested. Lighten up, live and let live, harm not those who do no harm. In short, act like a Christian to your fellow brother and don't be such a prudish judgmental prick.

    123. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      >> masturbation [...] only hurt[s] the self

      You're doing it wrong.
    124. Re:Motivated Youth by Captain+Sarcastic · · Score: 1

      I know that the Fundamentalist Loony Fringe suffers from that exact problem - absolutism as an artifact of translation.


      There's nothing in the Bible that says anything about absolutism... so you must be mistaken.

      <IRONY=0%>

      Oh, don't tell me I forgot my opening tag of <IRONY=100%> again. I hate it when I do that!
      --
      Strike while the irony is hot! -- The Freethinker
    125. Re:Motivated Youth by name*censored* · · Score: 4, Insightful
      MODERATORS MOD THIS GUY UP - if I had any meta mod points they'd all go to you.

      Up until about 12 years old, I was horribly confused as to how on earth millions of people ended up actually meeting, loving, and BEING LOVED IN RETURN by "Mr/Mrs Right". These (disney/romantic/etc) movies had misled me so much that I literally thought that there was only one person you would ever actually possibly fall in love with. I thought it ridiculously improbable that they would also fall in love with you in return (seemed to be more likely that their "one" person could be a different, third person, and the third persons' "one" could be a fourth, etc etc). As in porn, there was no realistic alternate view offered, but unlike porn, these movies were not presented as blatantly 'fantastic'.
      --
      Commodore64_love: I don't comprehend people who're so frightened of death that they'll bankrupt themselves to stay alive
    126. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just look at what you Christians cherish -- pity, guilt, sin -- not to mention guilt through inheritance, which no rational society anymore recognizes.
      Because that is the whole of Christianity, and all Christians have the exact same fundamentalist beliefs.
       
      Come, now. Do you really believe that? How would you feel if someone said something like "all atheists cherish immorality and are filled with nothing but pure hatred"? It's clearly untrue, right?
    127. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bringing a woman to orgasm is a learned skill and sex by itself is rarely enough. Vibrators are women's favorite sex toys even though that sensation doesn't resemble what any partner can do. The clitoris simply doesn't work very well, sometimes not at all. This is evidence that it's just an evolutionary accident, present because the glans penis is so important in men's reproduction (which is why it works very well indeed) and there was no selection pressure to eliminate the analogous organ in women.

    128. Re:Motivated Youth by boarsai · · Score: 1

      I do believe your confusing porn with something emotional and meaningfull, like say a relationship. Its a quick physical release, nothing more.
      Speak for yourself 1 minute man. ;)
    129. Re:Motivated Youth by sethawoolley · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If it makes you feel better, like many humans, I'm capable of quoting something somebody said before me that was a succinct example of a point I'm making without agreeing with everything else they said.

      Quite aside from Nietzsche, although he agreed with me, Christianity started as a Greek Mystery Cult (although I called it a Hellenistic Mystery Religion, the technical, non-loaded term), and has since evolved, but it hasn't strayed too far from its roots since the Bible, while not a complete encapsulation of Christian thought, is fairly well accepted as the definer of Christianity. Yes, there have been lots of changes in Christianity, and modern Christianity looks nothing like it used to (at many points in its history -- although when I say "its", I know it's actually a large tree of denominations).

      But ultimately, my point is valid in that its theological foundation still rests (unless you're a fringe Christian) quite squarely with the salvation theology developed by the Hellenistic Mystery Religions.

      I don't think Christianity is capable of providing any tool for explaining rationally to or raising mentally sane children. Yes, some Christian denominations allow other things into their belief system that are not Christian in origin, but that is a non-Christian and secular aspect of their particular denomination. Liberal Christians, for example, follow many non-Christian ideological systems (Marxism/Liberation Theology isn't Christian) and American Evangelicals of the Right follow many non-Christian ideological systems, too (economic liberalism is definitely not Christian). They think it is, but they are deluding themselves. They're picking and choosing passages that are merely one part of myriad contradictions and conducting exegeses that aren't part of the theological core of their own religion. This is in fact, the major danger of catechisms that claim universal application (fundamentalism) like Christianity and Islam.

      And yes, too, somebody is probably going to ask how I am morally/ethically/correctly able to arrogantly proclaim what is Christian since I'm not a Christian? I study Christianity and other religions very deeply, from an historical perspective. No, I don't believe them, but that doesn't diminish my ability to understand history -- in fact, my lack of faith gives me a more unbiased perspective into their evolutions and synchretisms than they will ever have. Most Christians are really simpletons who know very little about their religion, or, if they have a sophisticated understanding of their own religion, they have just been able to compartmentalize the passages that barely agree with their own world view, however created.

    130. Re:Motivated Youth by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Yeah, regarding porn the most you can instill in them is an absurd sense of guilt which I'd consider psychological abuse. Doesn't mean you can't teach them other things though, the poster said there's no way to instill principles into a kid but obviously not all kids learn the hard way that e.g. pissing on the street is a bad idea.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    131. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm naked right now. I like being master of my own domain with the drapes all pulled shut running around more free than tarzan in the jungle...naked people rock! (as parent said. Mod up)

    132. Re:Motivated Youth by gatesvp · · Score: 1

      I think I do have a bit more common sense than a lot of the people who do end up raising kids though

      Watch the intro to Idiocracy, laugh a whole bunch and then realize that they're right. Most parents (and I do mean 50%+) don't have a lot common sense, that's the very reason they end up having kids.

      The people who are self-aware enough to recognize the limitations of their current parenting skills are the same people who are smart enough to avoid having kids. It's actually an aggravation of the whole "rich getting richer and poor getting poorer" phenomenon, which works out really well for the rich b/c they just get more peons to control on each successive generation. But that's a different post... :)

    133. Re:Motivated Youth by king-manic · · Score: 1

      I strongly disagree. There are very effective ways to keep teens away from porn. They involve teaching a kid to respect themselves and others. It involves talking to your kids about these things. It involves teaching your kids correct principles when they are young and being a good parent. Is it possible to have your child never see porn? Probably not as there are many conspiring men who have their hearts set on addicting as many as they can but you can teach your kid never to go looking for it and what to do if he accidentally finds it.

      umm.. having had friends in such "teaching" households I can attests nothing short of quadriplegia will stop a teen boy from porn. From my Pastors son to the most devote Muslim family. The teens boys and sometimes girls invariably see porn and like it. And the "stricter" the family they came from the more into it they get.

      But you've already made up your own fluffy version of reality and I should let sleeping dogs lie.

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    134. Re:Motivated Youth by king-manic · · Score: 1

      I've found kids who lean on porn the hardest are the biggest worshipers of their GF later. Kids who have to lean on it lest are the ones who treat women like dirt and sleep around.

      I agree, most porn girls aren't the most stable in various ways. All the ones I've met (worked as a web dev for very eclectic webhost) were pretty screwed up. But working as a porn girl or web cam girl sure beats being a prostitute in absolute terms of safety.

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    135. Re:Motivated Youth by king-manic · · Score: 1

      Looking at porn every once in a while isn't going to hurt a kid. But if you let them watch porn in their bedrooms every night, they'll never be driven to talk to girls, and next thing you know their a 30 year old virgin slashdot poster, and Gord knows, no one wants that. You have to limit the porn enough to force them to talk to girls.

      I'd think it's more of a motivational poster/video then a replacement. Honestly I don't know only 1 guy who prefers porn to sex with a women or even chasing women. Porn is cheap and rampant but All of my single guy friends are endlessly looking through bars, through parties, through online etc..

      porn doesn't replace sex. It just sort of acts as a really shallow proxy for most people. A few have a problem but most do not.

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    136. Re:Motivated Youth by Antaeus+Feldspar · · Score: 1

      "Probably not as there are many conspiring men who have their hearts set on addicting as many [to porn] as they can"
      Ah yes. Because the fact that human beings are sexual creatures and derive immense pleasure from sexual stimuli is simply ''not enough'' to explain why pornography is prevalent. There ''has to be'' a conspiracy. I suppose, like that nutcase woman who babbles about non-existent "erotoxins", you also dub your version of the conspiracy "Big Porn"?
      I wonder what other conspiracies are proved to exist by the self-same logic. Wait a minute... what about cartoons? People read cartoons nearly everywhere, everyday... they stick them with magnets to their refrigerators... they even give their kids cartoons, for the love of God! And then if you sit down and read the cartoons, oftentimes they aren't actually all that funny ... so how come people are still reading them, hunh?! The answer is frightening but inescapable -- they're addicted, courtesy of those conspiring men of "Big Cartoon"!
      --
      If people are to respect the law, perhaps the law should begin by respecting the people.
    137. Re:Motivated Youth by king-manic · · Score: 1

      I'm saying that it's a lot more fun to look at a live naked woman than a digital one.

      Unless of course she's your MOMnoun, non specific)!!!!

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    138. Re:Motivated Youth by Nulagrithom · · Score: 2

      It's not the pleasure that's the problem... Drugs and alcohol are pleasurable too you know, that doesn't mean that they can't become problematic.

      Personally I quit teh pr0n because I eventually ended up having incredibly screwed up thoughts run through my head, the kind of stuffs rapists are made out of. =P So don't tell me there's nothing wrong with it, I know first hand what can happen to kids if you put strange/sexually violent thoughts in to their heads. On the other hand, I had parents who entirelly supressed all that kind of stuff, and I ended up associating sex with sin and darkness and bad and such, so it's no suprise that when I couldn't help but obey my nature that it all came out skewed. So for a solid three months, as an eighteen year old male teenager, I willingly supressed every sexual thought I had, until I decided I had the will to maintain I healthy balance. Now I'm fine, for the most part.

      Do the cases like me in the world merit a block on porn? God no. But you argue beyond the blocking of porn.

      As for the cherishing guilt thing about Christians, you clearly, like many others, missed the point. Take a look at a few of the writings of Paul... Such as First Corinthians 10:23, "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not." Care telling me where that fits in to cherishing guilt?

      And I dunno about you, but I came out of the womb an angry little bastard child. I didn't need anyone to teach me how to lie, did you? Whether you want to call it inheritance or not, I think most people simply have a hard time accepting the fact that we've all done our own share of ill deeds, and that's why they blindly rage against Christianity. It's one of the few (if not only) religions that plainly says: you all suck.

      I don't care so much what you think about Christianity. I have a hard time choking down the "loving Almighty who does no wrong" bit, personally I think he's a sado/masochist, but please don't blindly rage against the entailing philosophies as if only a complete moron would believe any of it. If you fully understood it, you would realize that some of the Christian philosophies aren't so disimilar from Buddist philosophies.

      ---
      It's just the booze talking...

    139. Re:Motivated Youth by marafa · · Score: 0

      i am sorry i dont have mod points but yes you make several good points and yes it basically comes down to good parenting and being good examples

      --
      _ In Egypt Networks: Network Solutions with a Twist
    140. Re:Motivated Youth by sethawoolley · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not the pleasure that's the problem... Drugs and alcohol are pleasurable too you know, that doesn't mean that they can't become problematic.

      Personally I quit teh pr0n because I eventually ended up having incredibly screwed up thoughts run through my head, the kind of stuffs rapists are made out of. =P So don't tell me there's nothing wrong with it, I know first hand what can happen to kids if you put strange/sexually violent thoughts in to their heads. On the other hand, I had parents who entirelly supressed all that kind of stuff, and I ended up associating sex with sin and darkness and bad and such, so it's no suprise that when I couldn't help but obey my nature that it all came out skewed. So for a solid three months, as an eighteen year old male teenager, I willingly supressed every sexual thought I had, until I decided I had the will to maintain I healthy balance. Now I'm fine, for the most part.

      Do the cases like me in the world merit a block on porn? God no. But you argue beyond the blocking of porn.

      I actually pointed out that porn specifically had built-in constraints. The one I pointed out had to do with relationship sex being much more pleasurable than masturbation and thus a systematic limit. The human body has others it has developed over eons. For example, males have a refractory period after ejaculation and females have ovulatory heat and highly selective sexual drives due to their biased investment in children.

      As far as drugs, those are exploiting evolutionary heuristics and as such are more dangerous, but we have developed systems that help control this too, although they aren't completely accurate (as in Marijuana's case). Limiting drugs to prescription use has actually worked out fairly well (but note that treatment programs for those that fall through the cracks are much better than criminalization).

      Porn is definitely not something, due to its systematic limits, that we should be controlling as badly as people want to control it. In your case, it's likely that your Christian upbringing is actually responsible for your thoughts, and that porn is the victim of religion again.

      As for the cherishing guilt thing about Christians, you clearly, like many others, missed the point. Take a look at a few of the writings of Paul... Such as First Corinthians 10:23, "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not." Care telling me where that fits in to cherishing guilt?

      I think you simply don't understand Paul. In First Corinthians 7, he makes quite clear my point that anything not for the benefit of Christianity is bad. Sexual pleasure in particular is shunned by him completely there. He makes an exception that fits with my theory perfectly: That if you have to fornicate, do it in marriage (unstated is that a child of constant Christian parentage is easier to brainwash).

      Back to First Corinthians 10, let me unambiguize Paul in a less cryptic translation: "All things are of [men's] laws, but not all things are expedient, nor are they edifying." He's simply saying that regardless of the legal situation of things, some are good and some are bad. That your translation uses the term expedient for his negative is telling, too. Expediency just means that it's more efficient, with a connotation that it's without regard to good or bad. That implies to me that efficiency is likely to lead to badness, which is exactly the assumption that I'm arguing against. In any case, even if you read it without that context, it's still damning to your point: he's making the point that despite legality, there's a set of restrictions of what you _should_ do, and in actual context, the "should" includes sexual restrictions of pornography: it's still a sin if you think of it in your heart. I would only hope you know what I'm referring to in that last sentence.

      Interpreting that quote as you do merely illustrates another point I made in this thread that

    141. Re:Motivated Youth by Znork · · Score: 1

      "How do you think these kids develop these paraphilias?"

      Obviously not from watching internet porn (which they'd tend to get exposed to far too late to affect the main formation of sexual orientation).

      The fact is that what explanations there are are tenous at best. The behaviouristical theory you're suggesting has been shown to be flawed due to its failure to, in that case, explain how a single-instance exposure could result in such deep and through conditioning (paraphilias have been shown to remain without reinforcement, heck they remain even with negative reinforcement). Imprinting has been suggested to solve that theory, but there is little evidence supporting it.

      Neurological crosslinking has been suggested, and to even go in to the psychodynamic explanations would be several pages.

      Hereditary components have been shown to exist (and there are several rational hereditary arguments to be made for submissive/dominant/sadistic/masochistic sexual orientations), but they would have a hard time to account for the sheer bulk of paraphilias.

      In the end, there are a lot of theories, but little in the way of reliable scientific data. Perhaps it's in part genetic, perhaps a lifelong schoolgirl uniform fetish can be formed by a stray neuron firing while watching kids anime before kindergarden, perhaps a foot fetish is formed by the foot being the first thing the kid saw after realizing his mom had no penis (yah, that would be Freud), or any other random chance happening.

      One thing most such theories have in common, for any 'real' paraphilias they're formed long before birds and bees talks, long before any excessive exposure to internet porn, and are inscrutable to the extent that you'd have to stick the kids in a box without ever getting exposed to anything to avoid the formation of random fetishes. Of course, that would probably just end up with them getting a box fetish. Not to mention a whole host of other disorders.

      So, tellya what, go do some research and come up with a complete theory for the formation of human sexuality, and even better, a reproducible protocol for how to induce vanilla heterosexuality during development. You'd revolutionize the field in question and probably get sainted by the christians.

      And no, repressing minorities and making them hide doesn't count as making heterosexuals, it just counts as making a whole lot of people unhappy.

    142. Re:Motivated Youth by hkmwbz · · Score: 1

      God gave us sex to not only enjoy but also procreate
      He did? Why would he give us sex? Did Adam and Eve have sex before they ate the fruit? Of course not, but since God knew that he had set up Adam and Eve for failure, he gave them a reproductive system? He knew that they would fall? What a fucking evil bastard.
      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    143. Re:Motivated Youth by hkmwbz · · Score: 3, Informative

      The clitoris is not an accident. It gives the owner pleasure.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    144. Re:Motivated Youth by Jarik_Tentsu · · Score: 1

      I think parents need to keep 'trying' to stop kids from watching porn, even if they believe it's 'alright' and they did it when they were younger.

      How would you feel if your Dad or Mum came up to you and said "Heya sonny...here's 20GB of my best stuff. There's some crazy shit in there."

      Being an 18 year old myself, I see nothing against porn. But I just feel, if I didn't feel the need to 'hide' it from my parents, it'd be morally unjust.

      It's just like teenage sex - I find people who's parents are like "Yeah, it's alright, go for it!" tend to be the guys who just fuck every girl they find, with no relationships and no respect. The guys who go and do it secretly, while still feeling a bit of guilt due to the fact they're parents'd kill them, still maintain some moral ground on the situation. Even though they don't feel its wrong.

      If kids start doing that kinda stuff with parental support, they may start to get into the mindset that they can do whatever the hell they want, and they'll still have parental support.

      Of course, you can always argue if people get used to 'going behind their parents back is alright' it could become a bad thing too, but like, I tell my parents everything almost everything I do, even if it's against their wishes - EXCEPT stuff I do with my girlfriend (Yes, yes, I'm a slashdotter who has a girlfriend, ha ha. Actually, she reads /. too. o.O).

      But I think it's a balance. Putting net-nanny software and filters is a bit much, but telling kids its okay to watch porn is something else. It needs to be in between - kids need to have two sides of the story - their friends telling them its alright, and their parents telling them its not.

      ~Jarik

    145. Re:Motivated Youth by Lord+Artemis · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but I fail to see how watching porn is materialistic. You don't get anything concrete from it, therefore it isn't materialistic.

      --
      Air is just like fog, but it's not gray.
    146. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Images of the naked human body or images of people engaged in sexual activity are not in themselves bad. These are only images. Neither is enjoying looking at them. It's one's attitude to these, how one uses them. There's a difference between a bit of pleasure and constant, long term addiction as a substitute for a long term relationship.

      But you idiodic killjoys assume images *in themselves* are evil, that the body is evil and must be covered. You confuse the object and the subject.

      If you repress something, you sexualize it (Freud, amongst others). You cover a part of the body, you embue it with power (cathexis) and it becomes fascinating and erotic. Women's ankles used to be regarded as highly charged sexually, like vulvas, because these were covered. It's a vicious cycle, once sexualized, the part must continue to be covered. Repressive Muslim societies cover women's faces for the same reason.

      The same thing has happened to images of children. The definition of child porn is now so broad as to potentially include almost any (partially) nude image of a child, even clothed images, and the definition of "child" is getting older all the time. 17 is now a child? Why not 21? 25? Idiotic. Images that used to be regarded as harmless and even beautiful have been re-categorized as porn and as "exploitative" (whatever that means).

      The more you suppress porn, the more highly valued it becones, and you create new categories and a deeper underground for porn. In Greece, hard core porn is openly on display next to Mickey Mouse comics at street kiosks. Nobody cares, it's so common it's just boring.

    147. Re:Motivated Youth by mpe · · Score: 1

      Except, I'd say in my experience and those I've know, that romantic movies do FAR more damage to young people's expectations of how real life relationships and sex work.

      Not just movies, the same can happen with other media. Including that specifically aimed at children.

    148. Re:Motivated Youth by mpe · · Score: 1

      Don't you know that hundreds of acts of fatal violence are fine, but ONE NIPPLE will drive us over the edge into anarchy? WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!?

      Even more ironic is considering a sport where the players have to wear body armour to avoid serious/fatal injury to be "family entertainment". Whilst going ballistic over a few seconds glimpse of a nipple.

    149. Re:Motivated Youth by STrinity · · Score: 1

      I know some people with seriously f-ed up ideas of how sex should be, or what they expect their partner to be cool with doing...simply because they watch too much porn and don't talk to enough actual women. Fantasy, people. It's fantasy.


      Quite true. Real women like to stick foreign objects in men's rectums, but you never see that in porn.
      --
      Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
    150. Re:Motivated Youth by gary+gunrack · · Score: 1

      Yes! And pop songs. And books. And anything with a love story gives us terribly unrealistic ideas about love.

    151. Re:Motivated Youth by LanMan04 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Personally I quit teh pr0n because I eventually ended up having incredibly screwed up thoughts run through my head, the kind of stuffs rapists are made out of. =P So don't tell me there's nothing wrong with it, I know first hand what can happen to kids if you put strange/sexually violent thoughts in to their heads. On the other hand, I had parents who entirelly supressed all that kind of stuff, and I ended up associating sex with sin and darkness and bad and such, so it's no suprise that when I couldn't help but obey my nature that it all came out skewed. So for a solid three months, as an eighteen year old male teenager, I willingly supressed every sexual thought I had, until I decided I had the will to maintain I healthy balance. Now I'm fine, for the most part. So you're blaming porn for your fucked up thoughts, instead of your parents doing a piss-poor job of teaching you about sex? The (probable) reason "teh pr0n" made you have dark/rape sex fantasies is because your parents totally fucked up your understanding of sex.

      Non-fucked up understanding of sex + porn = normal person, masturbation, quick physical release
      Repressed, fucked up understanding of sex + porn = probably fucked up person in terms of sexuality, hangups, fear, etc

      Only one variable has been changed on the left side of the equation. Hint: it's not porn. Call your parents and thank them for putting you through that hellish period when you were 18. It's their fault.

      BTW, I speak from experience; my wife had a similar Christian upbringing (if you tell me your parents aren't Born Again, I'll be very surprised), and it took her quite a while to work out most of her sex hangups. It still makes her feel weird/dirty sometimes, all because of her parents' inability/lack of maturity when it came to an uncomfortable topic: talking to your kids about sex.
      --
      With the first link, the chain is forged.
    152. Re:Motivated Youth by Paracelcus · · Score: 1

      "'ve been close to heroin addicts and alcoholics; they're both sad but not to the same degree. Any truth in what you claimed boils down to alcohol being consumed by far more people than other drugs and when using both alcohol is usually used more often. If you remove pot from the question even more so. Compare alcohol to pot and I may agree with you although I don't like pot."

      When was the last time that a junkie on heroin got behind the wheel of a car and killed people?
      How many times has a drunk done the same?

      "Without religion the death, destruction, etc. would have happened anyway in most cases, except where its structure misled people into valuing their own morality/judgment/ethics too highly. If a ruler desires to go to war they will find a way to do it, and I suspect religions are often expedient to the cause. That doesn't make religion the cause."

      Tell the victims of the Holocaust the Inquisition the "conversion of the native Americans" etc, about weather or not the presence or absence of religion played a part in their nightmare.

      --
      I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
    153. Re:Motivated Youth by Lost+Engineer · · Score: 1

      Back on topic: There's nothing wrong with football. The safest sport is whacking it.

    154. Re:Motivated Youth by KylePflug · · Score: 1

      Ah, I have made a fool of myself. In that case, my apologies :P

      (Apothecary is one of my favorite words, so I'll change my moral indignation to pleasant surprise to see it used on slashdot :))

    155. Re:Motivated Youth by thatblackguy · · Score: 1

      I think parents need to keep 'trying' to stop kids from watching porn, even if they believe it's 'alright' and they did it when they were younger. Good point, I think so too as long as it's not enforced to the point you beat the shit out of them if they're caught.

      How would you feel if your Dad or Mum came up to you and said "Heya sonny...here's 20GB of my best stuff. There's some crazy shit in there." Imagining the most liberal possible answer to be, "But dad it's not HD, keep your low res crap"

      It's just like teenage sex - I find people who's parents are like "Yeah, it's alright, go for it!" tend to be the guys who just fuck every girl they find, with no relationships and no respect. The guys who go and do it secretly, while still feeling a bit of guilt due to the fact they're parents'd kill them, still maintain some moral ground on the situation. Even though they don't feel its wrong.
      Morality through hypocrisy? Sounds like a recipe for Ted Haggard. That's not a very moral ground to have. I think it has to be made clear that the objectionable part is 'no respect' and not the 'fucking every girl they can find' part, what if the girls also wanted a casual thing? Sex doesn't have to always be tied to a relationship.

      If kids start doing that kinda stuff with parental support, they may start to get into the mindset that they can do whatever the hell they want, and they'll still have parental support. No, they'll find they have parents that don't make them feel ashamed of their bodies and have morality actually based on not hurting people. Cosistency is key.

      Of course, you can always argue if people get used to 'going behind their parents back is alright' it could become a bad thing too, but like, I tell my parents everything almost everything I do, even if it's against their wishes - EXCEPT stuff I do with my girlfriend
      Actually a very good way to deceive them by making them think you tell them everything. I do that myself.

      But I think it's a balance. Putting net-nanny software and filters is a bit much, but telling kids its okay to watch porn is something else. It needs to be in between- being taught to be respectful of your partner whether it's a one night stand or a wife and not being ashamed of your body or its desires Fixed for ya.

      ~ another teen

    156. Re:Motivated Youth by Orange+Crush · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but I fail to see how watching porn is materialistic. You don't get anything concrete from it, therefore it isn't materialistic.

      No, but you can get something cement-like from it.

      I'll get my coat . . .

    157. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My first experience of porn was coming across the girlie-mags owned and secreted by every dad (except one) of my classmates at a tender age. What's the point of locking down the 'Net if we can't even lock the bedroom closet?

    158. Re:Motivated Youth by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

      It's just like candy. I don't keep much candy in the house, so my son only gets it for treats. This is helping him to develop healthy eating habits.

      I don't mind if the kid sees the odd dirty picture. But constant use of porn is like constant use of candy. Empty calories.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    159. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are right, hormones have nothing to do with this.

      It is just society trying to corrupt them.

      Animals in the wild never have sex. They simply die and nature, through spontaneous generation, creates new creatures out of nothing.

      This also happens with particles and anti-particles, mind you.

    160. Re:Motivated Youth by eleven357 · · Score: 1

      "Just look at what you Christians cherish -- pity, guilt, sin -- not to mention guilt through inheritance, which no rational society anymore recognizes."

      I believe that you are referring to Catholicism and not Christianity. Catholics are the ones who are self hating, not Christians.

    161. Re:Motivated Youth by h4rm0ny · · Score: 1


      Perhaps there should be easier access to sexual content that has an emotional context, then. Sex is a basic human drive, but there is a great deal of repression that prevents easy access to video of it. Consequently, the vast majority of the porn out there is gruesome and brutal. Given that people have this basic need to acquire sexual gratification (which is by necessity self-gratification some times), those who condemn porn should in fact attempt to provide some more uplifting versions. If, for example, mainstream romantic films and soap operas were able to include explicit sexual content, then there would be an alternative to the five minute start-fuck-cum videos all over the Web and many people would view something more emotionally gratifying.

      People could view what they wanted, of course. But a little less repression and categorisaton of porn as a shameful thing, would lead to a wider variety of styles, some of which would be less souless.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    162. Re:Motivated Youth by Jarik_Tentsu · · Score: 1

      You make some good points...

      But I still feel like it'd be a bit...strange...for parents to be openly supporting pornography.

      I've always found it to be a bit wrong when some of the guys I know have fathers who take them to a bar, and encourage them to go and have sex with a girl, just for the fun of it.

      It's not like I have anything against teenage sex with no relationship attachments or anything...It's just that when parents start encouraging it, or making it seem like a good thing, I think it can affect a guy in a negative way.

      ~Jarik

    163. Re:Motivated Youth by CrankyOldBastard · · Score: 1
      Thanks for a well considered and constructed reply to my comment. I do not agree with all your conclusions, but I respect the fact that they are well considered opinions. The only point that I feel compelled to comment on is the statement

      I don't think Christianity is capable of providing any tool for explaining rationally to or raising mentally sane children.

      A short story....

      One of the lads I used to associate with in my youth is a sociopath. If A. has a choice between doing things the 'right' way or the 'wrong' way he has to choose the wrong way. He is one of the few people I know who might be a really 'evil person' (he does things like dynabolting shut a person's doors and windows while they're asleep before setting fire to their house, for example). One day, after the birth of his twin sons, he said to me "John, I can see why you sending your kids to Sunday School is a good idea - it would help prevent them growing up like me".

      When we have our first kid we have all sorts of ideas about how we're going to raise them, without the 'mistakes' our parents made. Most people learn that we have to compromise our ideals, and that a lot of parenting is a matter of deciding what we believe to be the lesser evil, so that our kids have the best chance at happy and fulfilling lives. For many people Christianity provides a useful set of guidelines for arriving at such compromises. Some people use this same information to abrogate their responsibility for these decisions. I do not think Christians have a monopoly on trying to find the easy option and to avoid responsibility for our decisions.

    164. Re:Motivated Youth by zenhkim · · Score: 3, Interesting

      > since God knew that he had set up Adam and Eve for failure, he gave them a reproductive system? He knew that they would fall? What a fucking evil bastard.

      Hell, just crack open a Bible to the Old Testament and read the Book of Job -- and I mean *really* read it. God bumps into Satan as both survey the earth. God boasts to Satan about how devoted a worshipper the man Job is. Satan points out that Job wouldn't be quite as enthusiastic to worship God if great misfortune befell the man. So God bets Satan that Job won't curse God to His face, even if Satan destroys Job's possessions, lays waste to his home, and slaughters his family.

      Think about it: God allowed Satan to completely ruin a pious man's life -- including the killing of innocent family members -- *so that God could win a bet*.

      No wonder they never covered this biblical story in Sunday School.

      --
      "All hands, BRACE FOR IMPACT!"
    165. Re:Motivated Youth by Nulagrithom · · Score: 1

      Well I'll be damned. That was a much more thorough, well thought out, and knowledgable reply than I expected. I really don't have anything to say to that, you clearly grasp more than enough to make your own more than reasonable conclusion. I don't quite agree with you, but at this point it seems you have a better grasp on your philosophies/beliefs than I have on mine.

    166. Re:Motivated Youth by Nulagrithom · · Score: 1

      Actually I can trace my dark fantasies directly to a single moment I experienced in my childhood, involving my first possitive memory with the opposite sex. My parents, clearly, made the "problem" much worse. Porn didn't help that "problem". That's all I'm pointing out. The "blame" can go to all three, I can control the last one.

    167. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Praise-ah the lordah! You have shown us all the light-ah!
      Not really... But im SOOOO glad you have warned us all of "[the] many conspiring men who have their hearts set on addicting as many as they can"

      I dont know how you survive in todays world. I mean, you must have to venture out from beneath your rock once in a while right? Good luck to you.

    168. Re:Motivated Youth by downhole · · Score: 1

      Big plus one on that. I'd say Mod Parent Up, but you're already at +5.

      Both porn and romance movies show unlikely situations in which people do things that are probably a bad idea in real life. The difference is, most guys figure out pretty early that most girls aren't really into being gangbanged by 3 guys they just met and that sort of thing. It takes much, much longer (and has screwed up more peoples' romantic lives for much longer) to figure out that chasing after and obsessing over some hot girl you ran into somewhere is dumb, because you have no reason to think that she's at all interested in you, or that you will still be interested in her after a 5-minute conversation.

      A particularly bad example that I remember is the movie Hitch. Hey, that girl down the street is cute! So, I'll obsess over her for weeks, and then hire some guy who will pull some crazy stunt that results in a conversation with her, and we'll naturally fall in love and get married! In real life, this sort of thing isn't worth the time spent obsessing or playing tricks, because at least 90% of the time, there just isn't anything there. Don't obsess over it; just go talk to her and ask her out. If you two click, then that's more then good enough, and if you don't, then you haven't wasted too much time and can move on to other prospects. If that guy wanted to really do a service to his clients, he'd smack them, tell them to forget about whoever they're obsessing over, then take them to a bar and make them talk to every single woman there.

      --
      I don't reply to ACs
    169. Re:Motivated Youth by downhole · · Score: 1

      Yes, let's keep kids away from military recruiters. That way, we will have no military, and will eventually be conquered by a hostile power with no opposition. That power will then conscript soldiers by threats of torture, summary execution, and the same to the individual's extended family.

      Oh wait, I forgot, that couldn't possibly happen, because the United States is the sole source of all Evil in the world. There was no violence or oppression of any kind anywhere before the United States came into existence, and all violence and oppression will disappear when the United States is gone. The US couldn't possibly be invaded by an evil power, because there is no Evil outside of the US, and all evil that seems to be present in the world is actually caused by the influence of the US.

      The scary part is that someone reading Slashdot right now seriously believes every word of that.

      --
      I don't reply to ACs
    170. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      God did not create man.

    171. Re:Motivated Youth by aybiss · · Score: 1

      I agree with you to a point here. The problem is we all know that all us old fogies are incapable of communicating with 'kids these days' in anything but a 'porn is bad, mkay?' tone. It's one of the laws of the universe.

      Like drug education it is doomed to failure from the beginning, no matter how well conceived or motivated it is. Trying to block kids and wasting our money (yes, I'm an Aussie) like this would make me laugh if the people behind it didn't take themselves so seriously.

      And to all the Christians pointing out how immoral sex is, please go away. I won't even bother attempting to point out how ridiculous your views are in the modern age. Just get off the page and let normal people discuss this please.

      --
      It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
    172. Re:Motivated Youth by Boronx · · Score: 1

      First of all, there are women that can be won over with persistence and cunning trickery, and find it flattering.

      Second, porn teaches you that all you have to do is let a woman suck your dick (she's dying to suck it and won't need any more prompting than getting a glimpse of it), and she'll soon be so hot she'll be begging you to put your dick inside her pussy, and eventually asshole, wherein you will reach the very peak of the sexual triumph, the best that life has to offer: pulling out and cumming all over her tits/face/ass.

      To a clueless virgin, the ridiculousness of this is not at all obvious.

      I think it's easy for people with experience with or education about sex to understand what's wrong with porn, and not easy for those without. It's equally easy for people with relationship experience or education to understand what's wrong with romances.

    173. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That doesn't follow. If its existence were important, it would make women as easy to get off as men.

    174. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're the only one who has labeled porn as inherently bad and destructive, due apparently to your religious beliefs.

      It doesn't take a religious genius to realize porn is inherently bad and destructive. Only people on here would have the balls to try and deny that because of their incessant dream to fill the newest hard drives with their porn collection and that is somehow viewed as a worthwhile goal. Porn is not a good thing. People will say it helps people sex lives (the only semi-realistic defense for it) but there are other ways to do that and that also masks, and far outweighs, all the bad things that are associated with porn. But there is no sense in going into the details because none of you will ever publically admit that porn is not good. Go put your blinders back on, the herd is calling you.

    175. Re:Motivated Youth by NMerriam · · Score: 1

      What a compelling argument...I mean, personal opinion. You say it's bad, so it's bad? I'm convinced!

      I'm happy to defend porn in real life. lots of folks are. It's entertainment like any other.

      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    176. Re:Motivated Youth by hkmwbz · · Score: 1

      Erm, have you ever heard about "orgasms"? Women have them too, especially if you stimulate the clitoris correctly.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    177. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My point is that it's hard to do and it doesn't always happen. My ex had half a dozen partners and I was the first who ever managed to get her off. Some women never even figure out how to do it for themselves. Sex rarely does it, because the clitoris is usually too far above the vagina and not sensitive enough.

      But the penis has to work--pregnancy without ejaculation is so rare it wouldn't sustain the species. And sure enough the penis is extremely sensitive and works very reliably far into middle age. If the clitoris doesn't work well, that can only mean it wasn't crucial to our development. It's just a vestige of sexual dimorphism that could easily have ceased to exist but for a lack of any selection pressure. Women got a bad deal; I'm glad it's better than it could have been.

    178. Re:Motivated Youth by hkmwbz · · Score: 1

      The clitoris does work well. It isn't the clit's fault that religious morons have robbed women of their sexuality throughout history. Women never figure out to do it for themselves because they have been trained to be ashamed. Oh yeah, and the clitories is also extremely sensitive. Often moreso, in fact, than the glans.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    179. Re:Motivated Youth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On a side note, I am (a nontheist) from Alabama. I went to a baptist Sunday School as a child.

      They covered that story numerous times.

  5. And the only reason it took 30 minutes... by Southpaw018 · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...was because all the other people were typing one-handed?

    --
    ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
  6. 84 million dollars? by gozar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Give me half that and I'll re-do their filter so some 15 year old can't get around it....

    Seriously, if you're going to spend that amount of money, you'd be farther ahead putting in a router that the government controls that can be continually updated. You also get cross-platform compatibility as a bonus!

    --
    What, me worry?
    1. Re:84 million dollars? by jonwil · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Isn't that what the chinese do?

    2. Re:84 million dollars? by sumdumass · · Score: 4, Funny

      I agree.

      I don't know why this kid is even allowed on the Internet. I mean, in my day if we did something against our parents wishes, we got our asses beat with a switch. This kid goes against their wishes to the point they have to install extremely expensive software and then watch him brag about rendering it useless. If there was ever a situation that warranted an ass beating this would be it. If I was his dad, not only would the Internet be pulled from his access, he would get his ass beat and grounded for a couple months. And if he wanted to defy our wishes again, he would get more of the same with some forced labor around the house.

    3. Re:84 million dollars? by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      your approach sounds like censorship.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    4. Re:84 million dollars? by ketamine-bp · · Score: 3, Funny

      hmm, that smells like the great (fire)wall.

    5. Re:84 million dollars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they spent $84M on a filter that's not worth $84.00, either they should pay people who know what they're doing or pay people like him. Heck, I think he should get half that money just for out smarting a POS $84M filter... What a waste and what a joke, $84M, LOL! $84.00 is even too much for such crap.

    6. Re:84 million dollars? by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "Give me half that and I'll re-do their filter so some 15 year old can't get around it...."

      Or at least, 15 year olds that can't figure out how to clear a CMOS (if required) then boot a live CD.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    7. Re:84 million dollars? by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, why I agree with your sentiment, I don't see why this case of a kid not listening and bragging about getting around things is being diverted from he facts that the kid doesn't listen.

      And of course the parents are just as much to blame as the kid is. I guess my outrage started before finding out that someone spent 84 mil on crap. It started when someone though spending 84 mil to work around the kid not listening was the solution. This should never happen. Like it or not, this entire post is unnecessary if the parents would have raise the kid properly. And proper discipline is part of raising a kid.

    8. Re:84 million dollars? by IdleTime · · Score: 1

      And the beating made you into a mindless dumbass who think violence is the answer to everything. $10 you are American!

      Losers beat kids, and you sir dumbass, is a loser.

      --
      If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
    9. Re:84 million dollars? by statusbar · · Score: 5, Insightful
      You fail 21st century business.

      I used to think this way when I heard about the Canadian Government budgeting $120 million dollars on a database and website for their Gun Registry, which ended up costing almost $2 billion. At the point where they spent half a billion dollars on the IT infrastructure alone it still did not work. Phones were not answered, web sites crashed, FAX lines busy.

      I then thought "Oh hey I could have built them a distributed database and front end that would work for only about $20 million!"

      But that is not what they wanted... They wanted to spend more and they didn't care if it worked. It's all about the kickbacks.

      --jeffk++

      --
      ipv6 is my vpn
    10. Re:84 million dollars? by sumdumass · · Score: 1, Troll

      Yes, I'm a loser. So what does that make these people who spend 84 million to stop their kids from "not listening" just to watch their kids defeat it and still "not listen" and brag about it on the interweb?

      Good argument skippy. Maybe one day we will all have endless money so we can let our children grow up with no rules that they have to pay attention to.

    11. Re:84 million dollars? by rk · · Score: 2, Funny

      There needs to be a "+1 Painfully True" mod for posts such as these. :-/

    12. Re:84 million dollars? by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Better yet, I could have told them that registering long-guns is absolutely pointless for only ONE million dollars!

      But that's not what they wanted. They wanted to waste money on a pointless project, while appearing to be doing something useful. It's all about public perception.

    13. Re:84 million dollars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when are beatings equivalent to rules?

    14. Re:84 million dollars? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      beatings are deterrent from breaking the rules. What good is a rule if there is nothing stopping you from not following it? This is exactly what is happening here. This kid doesn't follow the rules enough that someone has to spend loads of money to make him follow the rules and he defeats it and brags about it on the internet. You tell me that a time out is working. 2 swatts on the ass with a leather belt and the boy will think twice about no doing what he was told. If that doesn't work, give him 4 swatts on the ass.

      Kids learn that fast what they can and cannot get away with. The only time a good ass beeting wouldn't work is when the parent is afraid of hurting them and don't make it hurt. Obviously, the fact that they got swatted should be enogh to convey the importance of listening but sometimes you have to make it sting to get the point across.

    15. Re:84 million dollars? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      OH yea, and when I say beating them. I mean a couple swats with a paddle or belt on their butts. It is punishment we are after not torture.

    16. Re:84 million dollars? by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      Hitting children with an object is closer to torture than punishment.

      As for "What good is a rule if there is nothing stopping you from not following it?", well, I guess we'd just better throw away all of our laws, right? Because there's no law today for which the punishment is a beating, which by your logic means they aren't being enforced at all.

      But of course that's ridiculous. There are other effective deterrents besides physical pain, which don't have the side effect of teaching your kid that violence is an acceptable way to make other people comply, and most people have figured that out by now.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    17. Re:84 million dollars? by sumdumass · · Score: 1
      Lol. Spanking a child is nowhere near torture.

      And the laws take away things that parents cannot. That is what makes them effective. Which isn't by my logic in anyway. I can see that you don't understand much so I won't harp on what my logic is.

      There are other effective deterrents besides physical pain, which don't have the side effect of teaching your kid that violence is an acceptable way to make other people comply, and most people have figured that out by now.
      Yea, that why we have kids killing the pizza delivery driver in Ohio to get the $40 cash he had. That why we have an 84 million dollar program getting rendered useless by a brat who feels they don't need rules and is blatant enough to brag about it to everyone on the Internet. That why we have unruly children at restaurants disturbing everyones meal. That why we have kids throwing temper tantrums when they don't get their way.

      A good world this alternative deterrents works out to be. OH Sammy, you just kill the neighbor, your in time out mister!
    18. Re:84 million dollars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since 76 percent of the visitors to Slashdot have an IP originating in the United States, the poster probably is an American. You are a bigoted piece of shit.

    19. Re:84 million dollars? by Nazlfrag · · Score: 1

      Seems to me his parents did an excellent job of raising a young aussie. It's a national pastime to say 'fuck you' to authority. He doesn't want to live in an Orwellian nightmare nanny state, and defied them with his aussie larrikin powers. So thanks, random year 10 student, and a big thank you to your parents too, for giving us this giant fuck you to Johnny Howard and co.

    20. Re:84 million dollars? by senileoldfart · · Score: 1

      Wow! You're really fascinated by this ass beating stuff, aren't you?

    21. Re:84 million dollars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an Australian, I am sick of paying for bungled projects conceived by the mentally retarded.
      At 84 Million, I would say not 'fit for use' and be terminating the contract for breach and defective product. Then fire the people who signed off on this bungle. LOL.

      I thought the Australian "Mandata" project was the worlds worst, until the British NHS project came along, but the Canadians are up there with the best, although the US IRS and Homeland Security are laying low about their little overspends.

      It is about time these silver bullet and COTS software worshippers be rounded up and put on a spacecraft before the intergalactic goat arrives.

    22. Re:84 million dollars? by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      And the laws take away things that parents cannot. Um, not really. Parents can take away plenty of things to provide an incentive to follow their rules. Beatings are the last resort of a parent who's too ignorant or lazy to do so.

      I can see that you don't understand much so I won't harp on what my logic is. Uh huh. More like you don't have any logic, you're just violent.

      Yea, that why we have kids killing the pizza delivery driver in Ohio to get the $40 cash he had. I hate to break it to you, but senseless, random crimes like that have been around for centuries. Beating up kids didn't prevent it.

      That why we have an 84 million dollar program getting rendered useless by a brat who feels they don't need rules and is blatant enough to brag about it to everyone on the Internet. Funny how you think he's a "brat" just for showing what a waste of money this censorware was. The real brats are the ones who decided to waste all those taxpayer dollars on a program to block images of the human body, a goal which is both impractical and unnecessary.

      That why we have unruly children at restaurants disturbing everyones meal. That why we have kids throwing temper tantrums when they don't get their way. Gosh, you're right, none of that stuff happened back when more parents were willing to kick the shit out of their children. Congratulations, you've rewritten history.

      A good world this alternative deterrents works out to be. OH Sammy, you just kill the neighbor, your in time out mister! Jesus, what a stupid thing to say. Exaggeration of that level is a sure sign that you know you have no ground to stand on.
      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    23. Re:84 million dollars? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Well, AU was formed by a bunch of criminals.

    24. Re:84 million dollars? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Um, not really. Parents can take away plenty of things to provide an incentive to follow their rules. Beatings are the last resort of a parent who's too ignorant or lazy to do so.
      Yep, And I think we were at that last resort a while ago before an 84 million dollar program had to be developed so a kid could defeat it and then brag about his accomplishments. I'm not saying hit fist and ask questions later, I'm saying don't take it off the table and don't be afraid to use it when other things don't work. Evedently in this case, other things weren't working.

      And for the record, A parent cannot lock a kid into a 4x8 room, they cannot stop all access to the outside world and they cannot do half the things the criminal justice system can. I don't know about AU's stand on the death penalty but I'm pretty sure a parent cannot use that either.

      I hate to break it to you, but senseless, random crimes like that have been around for centuries. Beating up kids didn't prevent it.
      Sure they have, because we have always had parents that were mere shell of what they should be. Parents the didn't teach any consequences for you actions and kids who think they can get away with it mostly because a time out isn't punishment. But seeing how we have had that for ages, doe that mean we should accept it?

      Funny how you think he's a "brat" just for showing what a waste of money this censorware was. The real brats are the ones who decided to waste all those taxpayer dollars on a program to block images of the human body, a goal which is both impractical and unnecessary.
      No, he is a brat for making it neccesary for someone in a position of authority over him think that an 84 million dollar program was necessary in order to get him to respect his wishes. In other words, like the outrageousness of this, he is a brat for thing happening before the money was waisted.

      Gosh, you're right, none of that stuff happened back when more parents were willing to kick the shit out of their children. Congratulations, you've rewritten history. Lol.. Sure it happened. I mena there have always been under qualified parents and we need them to keep the criminal justice system going and provide government jobs for a lot of people. And we also need the people who cannot get a meaningful job because of their actions and all because we need people to flip burgers and wash cars or pump gas. But in recent times, this has gone from a few people to a lot of people and it is more common.

      Jesus, what a stupid thing to say. Exaggeration of that level is a sure sign that you know you have no ground to stand on.
      I would say look around. If you think that is a stupid thing to say just look around. And if you still think that way, pull you head from the sand and look around some more.
    25. Re:84 million dollars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great idea... I don't think!

      Not just because it teaches the child that if someons smaller / younger than you does something you disagree with, it's OK to punish them by means of physical discomfort, but also because of the escalation factor. If the child doesn't respond to 2 swats, then fails to respond to four, and you keep increasing it, where does it stop?

      You'll also end up potentially desensitising the child in question to the beatings, thus rendering them a waste of time (not to mention that there are those who believe excesses of this kind of punishment in early years can lead to the development of perversions like masochism in later life, thereby rendering this a self-defeating option!).

      Another thing to bear in mind is that there are risks to the parent who thinks employing this method of punishment is a good idea...

      1) The child may grow to fear the parent, rather than respecting them.
      2) The child MAY be stronger than the parent who's administering the punishment suspects. In most cases, this will lead to the parent getting the proverbial crap beaten out of them by the child they are "trying to help".
      3) Where the child ISN'T stronger than the parent, rendering 2 less of an option, they may just reach for the closest weapon (chair, knife, pen, whatever...) and engage in a little self-defence.

      I, for one, know that initially, 1 was the case for me, then it escalated to 3 (we were in the garden and I grabbed a 2x4 we were using to put up a fence. I didn't really know how to weild it as a weapon, so it was turned on me, but the resultant escalation in the beating lead me to start working out and eventually 2 happened.). Needless to say, I neither trust, nor respect my father, and we don't really talk anymore unless absolutely necessary. I don't really see this as a good thing!

    26. Re:84 million dollars? by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      And I think we were at that last resort a while ago before an 84 million dollar program had to be developed so a kid could defeat it and then brag about his accomplishments. But that's just the thing... it didn't have to be developed. There was no good reason to spend $84 million on it in the first place. Anyone who wants to waste that kind of money on censorware deserves to be publicly shamed by having it cracked in half an hour.

      And for the record, A parent cannot lock a kid into a 4x8 room, they cannot stop all access to the outside world and they cannot do half the things the criminal justice system can. I don't know about AU's stand on the death penalty but I'm pretty sure a parent cannot use that either. For the record, the justice system in the vast majority of countries (including Australia) can't use the death penalty either.

      And if you think the only disincentives for breaking the law are isolation and jail time, well, I hope I never drive on the same road as you, eat at a restaurant you own, etc., because there are plenty of laws that aren't enforced with those punishments, and apparently you see no reason to follow them.

      No, he is a brat for making it neccesary for someone in a position of authority over him think that an 84 million dollar program was necessary in order to get him to respect his wishes. Funny how you never consider the possibility that those wishes were unnecessary or unreasonable in the first place. It's all about authority for authority's sake, right?

      I mena there have always been under qualified parents and we need them to keep the criminal justice system going and provide government jobs for a lot of people. [...] But in recent times, this has gone from a few people to a lot of people and it is more common. I'm afraid there's no evidence for that. Every generation back to the ancient Greeks has complained about what a bunch of hooligans "kids today" are, but it really hasn't been getting any worse over time. It's all in your head.

      I would say look around. If you think that is a stupid thing to say just look around. And if you still think that way, pull you head from the sand and look around some more. OK, I'm looking around, but I still don't see any murderers being punished with time-out. In fact, the trend has been to punish young criminals as adults more and more often. The message that sends is "if you want to be a grown-up, commit a murder".
      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    27. Re:84 million dollars? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      But that's just the thing... it didn't have to be developed. There was no good reason to spend $84 million on it in the first place. Anyone who wants to waste that kind of money on censorware deserves to be publicly shamed by having it cracked in half an hour.

      I know it didn't need to be developed. If the kids would have listened to their parents it probably never would have been developed. And I'm with you, I find that completely outrageous. If your kids aren't listening to the point you have to consider that, you should be spanking them, taking the damn computer away and probably some other disciplinary actions. But buying into an 84 million dollar program to get junior to do what he is told just to have him get around it and then brag about it on the Internet is even more outrageous.

      For the record, the justice system in the vast majority of countries (including Australia) can't use the death penalty either.

      And if you think the only disincentives for breaking the law are isolation and jail time, well, I hope I never drive on the same road as you, eat at a restaurant you own, etc., because there are plenty of laws that aren't enforced with those punishments, and apparently you see no reason to follow them.

      Yea, I know. There are fines the if not paid will get you jail time. There are forced labor that Parants cannot do that will get you jail time it you don't do it. There are lots of other punishments that laws have but fail to fulfill them and you are likely to get jail time.

      Funny how you never consider the possibility that those wishes were unnecessary or unreasonable in the first place. It's all about authority for authority's sake, right?

      Your probably young and don't have kids of your own. So I won't hold it against you. But your responsible for your kids actions until they reach a certain age. You have to teach them to be productive members of society and protect them from harm. It isn't about authority for authorities sake, it is about raising them the ways you think accomplished all that you are expected to turn out. Not doing drugs, alcohol, surfing to bad sites and all that can be part of it. but the bottom line is that when you are responsible for another persons actions, they better be doing what they are told or making an effort at it. And from that stand point, if the parents say that no porn on the computer (even if it is only because of all the Trojans and malware associated with it) then that is what is expected. There is no reason to be buying into a 84 billion dollar program in the first place just to see some punk break it.

      One of these days, you might be in a position a parent is in. Hopefully you would have grown up enough that you can control your brat enough that he doesn't do something he knows is wrong and end up getting your house taken away or bankrupting you from a lawsuit over his actions or bail him out of jail or his intentional defying of the rules because he doesn't see the need for them doesn't get someone hurt or killed.

      I'm afraid there's no evidence for that. Every generation back to the ancient Greeks has complained about what a bunch of hooligans "kids today" are, but it really hasn't been getting any worse over time. It's all in your head.

      No, it is getting worse. And I say this certainty. I have noticed this for a while now. I have talked to senior who have been saying the same thing since they had kids but they also say it is worse now then back then. But I guess not all of this is bad parents. Some of it is just our lack of manors which could be attributed to parents. You used to tip your hat to a lady and take them off when going inside someone else's building. We don't do things like that anymore. When is the last time you saw someone holding a door open for someone else that wasn't asked to. Everything is me, me, me, because I want to now. It is disobey the rules because I

    28. Re:84 million dollars? by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Losers beat kids, and you sir dumbass, is a loser.

      Losers don't have any kids to beat. If you managed to reproduce, you are a winner, as far as evolution is concerned. Also, if you have kids, the chances are you got laid, which makes you a winner as far as life is concerned. So, by definition, the people who beat their kids are winners in at least two ways.

      And no, I don't have kids, I'm a 28-year old virgin. That's a loser :(.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    29. Re:84 million dollars? by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      If your kids aren't listening to the point you have to consider that, you should be spanking them, taking the damn computer away and probably some other disciplinary actions. Or you could just be a real parent and keep an eye on them. Unfortunately, some people are just too weak or lazy to do that, so they take the coward's way out with punches, censorware, or what have you. Those people shouldn't have had kids in the first place if they're so unprepared to put a little effort into parenting.

      It isn't about authority for authorities sake, it is about raising them the ways you think accomplished all that you are expected to turn out. Not doing drugs, alcohol, surfing to bad sites and all that can be part of it. but the bottom line is that when you are responsible for another persons actions, they better be doing what they are told or making an effort at it. You seem to think the relatively limited legal liability that parents have for their kids' actions makes those kids their chattel in all aspects of life, but I'm sorry, that's ridiculous. No one is going to die if a kid looks at boobies. It's not going to hurt him. Back in the day it was Playboys or naughty playing cards; now it's a web site.

      There is no reason to be buying into a 84 billion dollar program in the first place just to see some punk break it. You had it right up to the word "just". There's no reason to be spending that kind of money on filtering software, period.

      I have talked to senior who have been saying the same thing since they had kids but they also say it is worse now then back then. Oh boy. Newsflash! Senile codger complains that kids are worse now than they were back in the day! In other news, senile codger complains that today's music sounds like a bunch of noise. Funny how once you reach the age where your memory starts to go, the first thing to vanish is the reality of how life really was back in the "good old days".

      Seriously, cranky old people have been saying that since the dawn of time. Just because that's how they perceive each new generation doesn't mean they're on to something. It just means fearing change is part of human nature (and gets worse as you grow older).

      You used to tip your hat to a lady and take them off when going inside someone else's building. We don't do things like that anymore. That's rich, a complaint about manners coming from someone who's been advocating violence as a way to make others comply with his will. Personally, I'd rather see someone wear a hat indoors than see them beat up a child any day.

      When is the last time you saw someone holding a door open for someone else that wasn't asked to. I saw that the last time I was at a store with a door that needed to be held open (which I admit is getting rarer). I don't know where you've been, but I see it all the time.

      I was saying more people are getting murdered since time out was an accepted punishment as kids. Gosh, it's a shame the statistics don't back that up.
      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    30. Re:84 million dollars? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Or you could just be a real parent and keep an eye on them. Unfortunately, some people are just too weak or lazy to do that, so they take the coward's way out with punches, censorware, or what have you. Those people shouldn't have had kids in the first place if they're so unprepared to put a little effort into parenting.

      Well, I agree. But you have to assume that if they are willing to go through the expense of buying censorware that they are paying attention to the brat in the first place and the kid isn't listening. If they weren't keeping an eye on them, they why would they care about censorware?

      You seem to think the relatively limited legal liability that parents have for their kids' actions makes those kids their chattel in all aspects of life, but I'm sorry, that's ridiculous. No one is going to die if a kid looks at boobies. It's not going to hurt him. Back in the day it was Playboys or naughty playing cards; now it's a web site.

      Maybe that is the problem. In the US, you are financially responsible and liable for your kids up to the age of 18 and sometimes past that. If they destroy something, you pay. If they hurt someone, you pay. Even when driving a car at age 16, your ultimately going to cover anything they do. Now this isn't about a kid looking at boobies. That discussion is for another day, This is about expecting them to listen to the directions you tell them when there isn't something deeply wrong with those directions. Obviously, ordering your kids to be molested or to violate a law would be grounds for disobedience so it isn't that far, It is about expecting to be able to trust they won't go against your wishes. How do you know there is a difference with a kid in something like not listening and viewing porn on the Internet or playing with a gun they found in your room? I mean getting a malware infested computer, possibly having your credit card and banking number stolen by the crap on the Internet after telling them to stay away from those sites can be just as damaging to you as a parent as them getting into your gun safe and loading a gun then accidentally shooting their friends or siblings or worse yet, a pizza delivery boy for $40 in cash.

      And yes, there are reasons to not want a kid to be seeing boobies outside the OMG nipples are bad. Contexts and representations are everything on an impressionable kid. I guess a question might be, if they fail to listen to you over viewing it and goto the point of subvert any efforts you might take to stop it, then why would you expect them to understand that No mean No when dealing with a real live girl? I mean after all, it is just a couple of boobies. And they don't have to listen to anyone.

      You had it right up to the word "just". There's no reason to be spending that kind of money on filtering software, period.

      I know, because when time outs don't work and groundings to your room that has it's own TV, computer, games and all don't work, an ass beating for not listening should take care of the problem.

      Seriously, cranky old people have been saying that since the dawn of time. Just because that's how they perceive each new generation doesn't mean they're on to something. It just means fearing change is part of human nature (and gets worse as you grow older).

      Yes, I suppose they have. But lets not let that allow us to look past the fact that there might be some truth in what they are saying. Especially when two or more generations are now cranky old people. Did it ever occur to you that they might be right? I mean you seem to think every old person fears whatever change and are dogging on you because of your actions. Maybe your the problem?

      There is nothing wrong with beating a kid in a disciplinary manor. And when I say that, I mean a few swats on the ass with a belt or paddle. I'm not talking about revenge for something or punching them or anything like that. A

    31. Re:84 million dollars? by Mr2001 · · Score: 1

      Well, I agree. But you have to assume that if they are willing to go through the expense of buying censorware that they are paying attention to the brat in the first place and the kid isn't listening. If they weren't keeping an eye on them, they why would they care about censorware? Because censorware is a substitute for keeping an eye on kids -- that's the whole point! Instead of actually monitoring your kid's internet use with your own two eyes, asking him what he's been up to, and talking with him about what he should stay away from and (most importantly) why, you get a program to do it for you. Badly.

      Also, the censorware in this case is provided free of charge from the government. You didn't think a parent actually spent $84 million of his own money on it, did you? ;)

      How do you know there is a difference with a kid in something like not listening and viewing porn on the Internet or playing with a gun they found in your room? Uh... you're asking how I know there's a difference between guns and porn? You must be joking. Any 16 year old knows guns can kill people and boobies can't.

      I guess a question might be, if they fail to listen to you over viewing it and goto the point of subvert any efforts you might take to stop it, then why would you expect them to understand that No mean No when dealing with a real live girl? I mean after all, it is just a couple of boobies. Because anyone who isn't retarded can tell the difference between forcing yourself on a real live person against her will, and looking at a picture that some third party doesn't want you to. One is harmful to another human being. The other merely violates an arbitrary and pointless rule.

      I know, because when time outs don't work and groundings to your room that has it's own TV, computer, games and all don't work, an ass beating for not listening should take care of the problem. It'll seem to take care of the problem, until they knife you in your sleep for being an abusive bastard. Or maybe they'll just keep it in the back of their head until the day comes to choose your nursing home.

      Jesus, this isn't rocket science. Take the TV, computer, and games out of the room if you're sending the kid there as punishment. And if you're so concerned about his internet browsing, the computer should be in a more visible place anyway.

      Yes, I suppose they have. But lets not let that allow us to look past the fact that there might be some truth in what they are saying. If there were any truth to it, it'd be reflected in crime statistics. And, unfortunately for their grasp on reality and their relevance to today's society, it isn't. The murder rate in the US in 2005 was as low as it's been since 1966.

      I mean you seem to think every old person fears whatever change and are dogging on you because of your actions. I don't know where you came up with that. I haven't said a thing about my actions, or anyone "dogging" on me. You're the one who brought up seniors in the first place.

      I'm just pointing out that seniors have always complained about the younger generation; when you were a kid, seniors then were complaining about your generation, just as Plato complained about the kids of his time. Those complaints don't prove anything, especially not a decline over time, because they're constantly there no matter what.

      I'm betting that the only reason you find that wrong is because you on of the people who are doing things wrong all the time and don't want to be made to listen. Well, you're losing that bet. Would you rather send a check or PayPal?

      I find it wrong because I believe in human rights and dignity. Inflicting pain on someone in order to enforce your will is wrong, period. It's especially wrong when they're smaller than you, dependent on you, and helpless to fight back. There's no excuse for that, and the kind of thugs who do such a thing should be stripped of parental rights and castrated to prevent them from harming any more children.
      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
  7. Tom Wood by MyLongNickName · · Score: 5, Funny

    Tom Wood sounds more like a porn star's screen name.

    --
    See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
  8. More Money, More Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Could it be that throwing tax dollars at moral problems when not everyone agrees on whether or not said act is immoral is not the best idea?

    1. Re:More Money, More Problems by darken9999 · · Score: 1

      It's Australia, not the US, you fucking retard.

    2. Re:More Money, More Problems by gerbalblaste · · Score: 1

      trouble is, this story is about Australians. Rendering your comment offtopic.

    3. Re:More Money, More Problems by Kaptain+Kruton · · Score: 1

      What does your comment have to do with anything? This story takes place in Australia. Not the US. I suspect this is more of an attempt of politicians trying to be seen as moral and family oriented during an election year than it is about actually banning porn in any way. Also don't compare prohibition to trying to stop teenagers from looking at porn. To my understanding (which I admit could be wrong), the software is installed by the parents and it is not obligatory. The filter is not stopping adults from looking at porn and I doubt the mafia is going to gain a lot of power by giving teenagers porn in a speakeasy.

    4. Re:More Money, More Problems by Kaptain+Kruton · · Score: 1

      The question is, was money being thrown at a moral issue to solve it or was it being thrown at it to appear moral and family-oriented for the upcoming elections?

    5. Re:More Money, More Problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could it be that throwing tax dollars at moral problems when not everyone agrees on whether or not said act is immoral is not the best idea?

      You, obviously, have never been to the United States.

    6. Re:More Money, More Problems by feepness · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Could it be that throwing tax dollars at moral problems when not everyone agrees on whether or not said act is immoral is not the best idea? Only when it's someone else's morals. When it's my morals... well, then it's just common sense to spend every last dime on them.
    7. Re:More Money, More Problems by Barny · · Score: 1

      And now if the media blows this story up big, its going to make the current government look like a pack of tools (well, they are, but this helps focus things), not good with an election in a few months :)

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    8. Re:More Money, More Problems by glitch23 · · Score: 1

      Could it be that throwing tax dollars at moral problems when not everyone agrees on whether or not said act is immoral is not the best idea?

      Everyone may not agree however have you ever heard of societal norms? Some of our most basic laws are based on those: murder, rape, and stealing are crimes. It just so happens that murder and stealing are also 2 of the 10 Commandments. Whether you like it or not the US legal system (and I'm sure other 1st world countries share the same) is based on Christian values. You can argue that other religions have the same morals and you would be right, but it wasn't those other religions that this country's Founding Fathers were strong believers in (it doesn't mean they were active members of Christianity [many were though] but they still felt it was A Good Thing).

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
    9. Re:More Money, More Problems by moz25 · · Score: 2

      It just so happens that murder and stealing are also 2 of the 10 Commandments.

      Have you ever heard of Hammurabi's Code? Probably not.

      It's amusing when people try to link the U.S. legal system and the 10 Commandments when that exact same legal system allows flagrant violations of at least 6 of the same Commandments.

      Are you really so desperate to make the link? Wouldn't it make more sense to point out the numerous references to God in the Constitution?

    10. Re:More Money, More Problems by Glytch · · Score: 1

      These days, the Australian government is just Bush Administration Lite.

  9. Perception by biocute · · Score: 2, Interesting

    icon is not deleted which will make his parents believe the filter is still working

    Isn't this what's important to parents? They only need to feel good, other technical details are useless.

    1. Re:Perception by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Still, 84 million dollars. I think they should launch an investigation into the way the money was spent.

    2. Re:Perception by IANAAC · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Isn't this what's important to parents? They only need to feel good, other technical details are useless.

      Spoken like someone who is not a parent.

    3. Re:Perception by jez9999 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Perhaps it took Tom Wood the 30 minutes to discover that the filter did in fact *consist* of the system tray icon, nothing more.

    4. Re:Perception by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't this what's important to parents? They only need to feel good, other technical details are useless.
      Spoken like someone who is not a parent.
      Spoken like someone making a statement on how stupid some "parents" can be.
    5. Re:Perception by Faux_Pseudo · · Score: 1
      I am so happy to see that you used that old fallacy to respond there instead of looking at the real issue he was bringing up. After all a person who has no kids is completely incapable of knowing how parents think. Their life experience is completely devoid of any contact with parents or kids so they can't possibly know how things work.

      The truth is that most parents will be content just knowing that the icon is there. Just like they make sure a TV has a V-chip but never set it up. They buy anti-virus software and never run it and won't put it on a scheduler because they don't like it to run when they are on the computer. They buy cell phones for their kids so that they can call them to find out were they are or what they are doing but then never call them just to check in. Or, as has been mentioned here on /. they get one of those GPS cellphones that tell parents were their kids are but then never use the feature after the initial test to see if it works. A lot of these examples are like buying a DVD so you can watch something any time you want. But you never watch it because you always see it on the shelf and know you can watch it any time you want so why watch it now? People, parents included, often take the easy way out and trust that if something is visible then it is doing its job.

      People are stupid. Parents are people. Parents are stupid. Sure that is broad statement and there are plenty of examples to the contrary but people as a whole are burdened with a lot of evolutionary baggage that makes them smart enough to know they should do something and lazy enough to put it off for another time. Checking the logs from the Internet filter is one of those things that never gets done by the majority of parents. Assuming that the parents didn't have the kids set it up in the first place.

    6. Re:Perception by vertinox · · Score: 1

      Spoken like someone who is not a parent.

      Could it be that natural instincts get in the way of logical thought?

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    7. Re:Perception by Resident+Emil · · Score: 1

      ...but do know how most parent works.

    8. Re:Perception by Mr.+Shiny+And+New · · Score: 1

      The truth is most parents are not technically competent to understand how the filtering works, and have no choice but to trust that icon = filter. This is totally different from your other examples, such as buying a cellphone for the kids and never calling them, or never tracking them with the GPS feature. Has it occurred to you that tracking your kids by GPS might be something only used in an emergency? I wouldn't have wanted my parents to monitor my position 24/7 but if I didn't show up for dinner it would be useful for them to know where I was, especially if I didn't answer the phone. That kind of information could be invaluable if I'd been in accident.

      Your other example, buying a V-Chip and never setting it up, or buying anti-virus software and never using it, are different from using a v-chip or A/V and trusting them to work, when in fact your v-chip or A/V has been disabled and replaced with a decoy. How is a non-technical person supposed to know the difference? If the v-chip says "running" and the parent doesn't try to watch porn, they'll never see that it's busted.

      Face it: the majority of the world is not technical and never will be. Many of those people are non-technical because they are idiots, but the rest just aren't inclined to learn it, because they have too many other responsibilities. I'm very technical and have learned a great deal about computers and electronics but know very little about cars, does that make me an idiot? Does that mean that if I buy a car and the fuel gauge doesn't work I'm somehow a fool for trusting it? Of course not.

    9. Re:Perception by Faux_Pseudo · · Score: 1

      You are talking about their capability to use and understand. The GGP and myself were talking about feeling good that the icon was there was good enough for most parents which was what my examples showed. Two different topics, trust vs knowledge. Both valid, but your response to me doesn't address the issues that we were addressing.

    10. Re:Perception by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

      I think you're missing a bigger problem here: somewhere around 50 percent of the population of parents has a vested interest in making sure the filter is circumventable.

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

    11. Re:Perception by nEoN+nOoDlE · · Score: 1

      Spoken like someone who is not a parent.

      Well, if the original poster did not hit it right on the head, there should be an outrage by the parents that their filter isn't working because they've been performing weekly checks. Most parents won't know the difference though because they blindly allow some faceless corporation to do their parenting for them instead of using them as a tool for more effective parenting.

      --
      Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
    12. Re:Perception by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spoken like someone whom has forgotten how to see the world from a non-parent view point.

      There are times when parents do things that look to the non-reproducing among us as an action of comfort.

      Sometimes its hard to see things that happen behind our eyes, no?

    13. Re:Perception by Mr.+Shiny+And+New · · Score: 1

      So you're saying that most parents will be happy that the filter is there if they're not using it, and don't believe they are using it? No sane person would ascribe the same benefit to "I have a filter and know I am not using it" versus "I have a filter and am using it". The original comment was saying that the ICON was enough to satisfy most parents, implying that they did not actually care if the filtering was happening or not. I am 100% sure that that is completely false, which is why my comment was addressed toward the case where the parents believe they have a filter WHICH IS ON AND FILTERING, but has actually been disabled: these parents will feel good that the filter is working but their trust is misplaced, which is a problem they are not equipped to deal with. I still maintain that HAVING a filter versus USING a filter are completely different and nobody will feel that merely having it, but not using it, is in any way equivalent, unless they don't actually feel they need the filter anyway.

  10. HAHA MR WOOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Heh, mister WOOD hacked a porn filter :-DDD

    1. Re:HAHA MR WOOD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grow up or go to Digg.

  11. The article by click2005 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Tom Wood, a Year 10 student, probably 15 - 16 years old has cracked the federal government's $84-million internet porn filter in just 30 minutes. He can deactivate the filter in several clicks in such a way that the software's icon is not deleted which will make his parents believe the filter is still working. Tom says it is a matter of time before some computer-savvy kid puts the bypass on the Internet for others to use. "It's a horrible waste of money," he said. "They could get a much better filter for a few million dollars made here rather than paying overseas companies for an ineffective one."

    Australian communications Minister Helen Coonan said the government had anticipated kids would find their ways around the NetFilter. Yes Minister but 30 minutes for a teenager to crack a 84 million dollar filter is simply ridiculous.

    --
    I am a free slashdotter. I will not be modded, blogged, DRM'd, patented, podcasted or RFID'd. My life is my own.
    1. Re:The article by X0563511 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sounds like he is just killing the process. That will leave a ghost system tray icon until you mouse over it.

      You can just right click on the task bar to get to the task manager also, so clicking around works.

      The solution is to run the filter as a system level service and deny users access to kill it (lots of services can do that).

      Sounds like a shitty program for sure.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  12. I would like a porn filter... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that rejects any underage image.

    Something that's customizeable, to reject images based upon content from ever reaching my computer screen.

    Automatic notification to the proper authorities would be a nice bonus.

    Something has to be done to stop the spread of abused children.

    I guess if porn producers would simply stop using trick links...yea, right.

    1. Re:I would like a porn filter... by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And how do you propose to determine an image is underage?

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    2. Re:I would like a porn filter... by MyLongNickName · · Score: 4, Funny

      A national database of naked children, duh!

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    3. Re:I would like a porn filter... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Won't someone think of the images!

    4. Re:I would like a porn filter... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the accompanying text contains words like "young" or "teen", of course.

    5. Re:I would like a porn filter... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stunningly funny. Thanks.

    6. Re:I would like a porn filter... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess if porn producers would simply stop using trick links...yea, right.

      Why would porn producers need to use trick links? Porn producers make plenty of money without using trick links. It is the adfarm running linkers that will using certain random algorithms to send you to a different site or picture than the one you clicked on. They use a random set so that the majority of times you get sent to the picture you wanted, while a small percentage of the time you get a different picture. If you clicked on the same picture over and over again you may see this.

      However, other times you will get a different picture each time you click, these are the lazy adfarm runners who do not expect you to come back. And the majority of the time these people do not know of any underage links as they just run the front, it is the guys running the servers that these adfarm linkers get their pictures from

      Some advice: Find a site that is run by security conscious people. There are many porn providers, not producers, that want your visit to be safe and secure. They want you to return so they can get further ad revenue. Some just want to share with you the enormous amount of porn they have collected while going to horrible sites. They don't like going to horrible sites, so they make theirs decent.

      Also, any type of underage filter will have to make sure they do not filter out those that are well above the legal age, but still look under. That would be discrimination against these people who should not have to make themselves look older just so you feel better. I am sure there are many lawyers out there that could have a wonderful time with a lawsuit like that.

      Two pornstars I can think of off the top of my head. One was on Rodney Moores site years ago. She was approx 4 foot 8 inches tall. Little thing, had a few curves, but was over 20. Then there is the pornstar Kitty. She has been around for a few years and yet has no curves whatsoever. She is over 20 also. I know quite a few girls in my area who are in their late 20's and they get mistaken for being under 18 quite a lot.

      So tell me, how can you tell the difference between someone like Kitty and let's say, Traci Lords, when she was in porn? She had all the curves and looks of someone old enough. You cannot tell the difference without a lot of scrutiny, and even then you are not 100%

      One thing I will throw in also:
      Something has to be done to stop the spread of abused children.

      What do you propose? The death penalty for those proven to abuse? Or just locking them up, letting serve their time, then making them live in an open prison where they are abused and treated unfairly due to having been convicted of abuse? Are you going to try to rehabilitate them? Do they actually need rehabilitation or just a proper confirmation that what they were doing was wrong?

      What about those who photograph themselves while they are underage? Do we send them to prison for child abuse? Do we punish the parents for not giving their child enough love and attention? What about the school they go to? Do we punish the students who rip away their self-esteem? How about the parents of the other students?

      Please, provide some way of dealing with this. Some sort of deterrent. Look at all the angles, debate it with others. Find something decent. Make sure you are not infringing on the rights of those who are innocent.

      This looks like a rant, and it felt like one too. However, I am truly looking for your reply with solutions that could work.

    7. Re:I would like a porn filter... by schon · · Score: 1

      If the accompanying text contains words like "young" or "teen", of course. Umm, last time I checked, the allowed age was 18, which "teen" and "young" would both apply to.
    8. Re:I would like a porn filter... by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      So 'young adult' , and 'teen 19' would also be filtered, even tho its currently legal.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    9. Re:I would like a porn filter... by Xemu · · Score: 1

      A national database of naked children, duh!

      While I thought your joke was funny I also want to share that the database actually exists using one-way hashes: it's maintained by NetClean with contributions from police forces around the world.

      --
      Tell your friends about xenu.net
    10. Re:I would like a porn filter... by Iron+Condor · · Score: 1

      Last I checked, the word "teen" meant that there were some thirty-something women trying desperately to pretend to be younger by pouting, sucking on a finger nail and wearing their hair in pig-tails. I'm not sure whether you can actually get porn that shows anybody under ~25, but if so I'm pretty confident that it won't be labeled as such...

      --
      We're all born with nothing.
      If you die in debt, you're ahead.
  13. those poor teens by icepick72 · · Score: 4, Funny

    So now we find out the government has been secretly using teen workers as hackers. Not only is "teen workers" an irony but this could be constituted slave labor. They are faced with the proposed fear of work and so crack the filter as fast as they can. Oh wait ... it's a porn filter ... okay added incentive I admit.

  14. Fucking morons. by scenestar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When are people going to accept that teenagers are sexual beings too.

    According to wikipedia he should be around the age of 15/16
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Australi a#Secondary

    When I was 15 I remember becoming sexually active with girls and having "needs"

    No filter can stop teens from getting off, no matter how many millions of dollars you throw at it.

    --
    perpetually dwelling in the -1 pits
    1. Re:Fucking morons. by badasscat · · Score: 0, Troll

      When are people going to accept that teenagers are sexual beings too.

      How about when teens start having the financial means to support the resulting children?

    2. Re:Fucking morons. by badasscat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ugh, I wrote that in haste - obviously I'm not talking about children resulting from looking at porn on the internet. But if you accept that teens are "sexual beings", then you're not just accepting that they're looking at porn. Teens with "needs" are going to fulfill those needs for each other, not just individually. And that's where you get teen pregnancy, which is usually not a good thing for anyone (your tax dollars end up supporting some dumb kid who got knocked up and then can't support her kid, so it's not good for you either).

    3. Re:Fucking morons. by sakdoctor · · Score: 1

      Do you have a religious objection to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_control ?

    4. Re:Fucking morons. by Sique · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's what sexual education is for. There is a direct relationship between the quality of sexual education in school and the number of teens who make it through puberty without causing pregnancy or getting pregnant.

      Preaching "True love waits" has a proven effect of NIL.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    5. Re:Fucking morons. by v01d · · Score: 2, Funny

      Teens with "needs" are going to fulfill those needs for each other, not just individually.

      Yeah, but every sperm that hits the keyboard is one that doesn't make a baby. So, isn't a porn filter likely to increase teen pregnancy? Assuming of course that the aforementioned sperm will go somewhere. Any other ideas where the sperm might go?

    6. Re:Fucking morons. by Sique · · Score: 1

      ... and a governmental order of "no porn for you tonight" has a proven effect 30 mins, as we know now.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    7. Re:Fucking morons. by kailoran · · Score: 1

      If watching porn resulted in children, slashdotters would multiply exponentially.

    8. Re:Fucking morons. by keko_metal · · Score: 1

      Teen Sexuality != Resulting Children

      In the other hand, if all the real adults are constantly trying to forbid sexuality on teenagers, teens have no means but learn by their own way. No rule will work when trying to forbid instincts. But of course, education is a harder task and take many years, the buggy filter gives you peace of mind, instantly! Well, at least for 30 minutes :P

    9. Re:Fucking morons. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think "success" was the objective. Hint: 84 million dollars in tax money.

      You're not in the administration business, are you? ;)

    10. Re:Fucking morons. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I was 15 I remember becoming sexually active with girls and having "needs"

      I feel your pain, same here. Then /. came along... but I can still remember.

    11. Re:Fucking morons. by c · · Score: 4, Funny

      > When are people going to accept that teenagers are sexual beings too.

      Seeing as how these same lunatics haven't accepted that adults are sexual beings, I'm thinking "never".

      c.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    12. Re:Fucking morons. by Tim+Browse · · Score: 1

      obviously I'm not talking about children resulting from looking at porn on the internet

      I hope not - they're the worst kind.

    13. Re:Fucking morons. by scribblej · · Score: 1

      INSIGHTFUL?

      We're talking about surfing porn on the internet. I've been doing that (or the equivalent on BBSes) for 20 years now, since I was maybe 12 or a bit older.

      It's never resulted in kids... and if it is possible to result in kids then there's something I must have missed in school.

      None of my sexual contact with women has resulted in kids either, because I'm not some sheltered little ignoramus who is told by the Church that condoms make baby Jesus cry.

      And if you think the condom shit is old news, it's not. The government here in the US still only supports programs that teach /ABSTINENCE/, not condom use. It's ignorance, stupidity, and fear of the big Sky Daddy. GET OVER IT.

    14. Re:Fucking morons. by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 1

      And NOT accepting that teens are sexual beings will somehow prevent teen pregnancy? It's been tried, it doesn't work. In fact, abstinence-only education results in more teen pregnancies. Accept that teens are sexual beings, be open and honest about it with them, teach them about themselves and their needs and treat those needs with maturity and respect rather than shame, and guess what - the teens learn self-respect and learn to take care of themselves, whether that means waiting or using birth control.

      --
      This space available.
    15. Re:Fucking morons. by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

      Yes...teenagers have needs. But honestly, do you want your teenager talking to girls, or spending an hour every night looking at porn?

      The important bit in parenting is steering your children into good habits. Looking at the odd dirty picture is not a problem. Forming the habit of using porn as your primary source of sexual gratification is.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    16. Re:Fucking morons. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I was 15 I remember becoming sexually active with girls and having "needs"

      Then you hit adulthood an somehow ended up posting at Slashdot.

      Hmmm... something to think about!
    17. Re:Fucking morons. by jgrahn · · Score: 1

      Yes...teenagers have needs. But honestly, do you want your teenager talking to girls, or spending an hour every night looking at porn?

      Just as long as (s)he isn't spending an hour every night looking at girls, or talking to porn.

    18. Re:Fucking morons. by dcollins · · Score: 1

      Not so. The demonstrable effects of the "abstinence only" campaign is to make kids liars and delusional about their own behavior.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    19. Re:Fucking morons. by Shados · · Score: 1

      Funny, but its most definately true. Teens, on top of having urges, are also amazingly curious. If you stop them from looking at pictures, their only recourse is the real thing...and once two naked teens are in the same room together, the lack of condoms is the last thing on their mind. Even someone who KNOWS better will have a hard time resisting urges at that point.

      I don't have any at hand, but as far as I know, just about every single studies ever made show that teens who are exposed to sexual education and material (aka: are a bit less sexually frustrated, and more importantly, curious) usually end up having their first experiences at an age where they are more aware of the consequences of their action (thats why early teen pregnancies are more common in poorer, less educated areas).

    20. Re:Fucking morons. by Eevee1 · · Score: 1

      With respect, I did Sex Ed a few years ago in Australia, and the most we learnt was that it involved lots of bubbles, fat men, fat women, a bath and floating rubber ducks. Now, I admit I am out in the sticks, but I'm not sure what bubbles and floating rubber ducks have to do with getting a girl knocked up. Anybody care to explain?

    21. Re:Fucking morons. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is most teens are so pumped full of hormones their "love" is off the charts compared to most adults whose hormones have balanced out. The benefit to adults is that "love" doesnt burn out after a month or two (or less), where teenagers cant fall into stable relationships because their hormones flux like mountain ranges do in altitude. For teenagers, "true love" waits only about as long as it takes to get their pants off.

    22. Re:Fucking morons. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, Einstein, tell that to Hugh Hefner.

    23. Re:Fucking morons. by Sique · · Score: 1

      That's why I was talking not about the amount of sexual education, but about the quality of sexual education.

      Probably your teacher messed up personal hygiene and sexual hygiene.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    24. Re:Fucking morons. by nahdude812 · · Score: 1

      There is a direct relationship between the quality of sexual education in school and the number of teens who make it through puberty without causing pregnancy or getting pregnant.
      If this were Wikipedia, [Citation Needed] would appear here. So in that light, please provide a link to the study or data that backs up this claim. While you're at it, I'd appreciate one for your "Preaching 'True love waits' has a proven effect of NIL" statement too (if the effect is proven, let's see the proof).
    25. Re:Fucking morons. by Eevee1 · · Score: 1

      Let's face it, my teacher there was very messed up, so it's likely.

    26. Re:Fucking morons. by Sique · · Score: 1

      I guess, my teacher was pretty straight forward in that departement. But on the other hand, he was with the Stasi (the east german secret police...).

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    27. Re:Fucking morons. by Sique · · Score: 1

      For the first, there is: http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/euro pean/summary.htm

      For the second statement I advice you to read the British Medical Journal, http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/short/335/7613/248

      Even though this is about abstinence and the effect on sexually transmitted diseases (NIL), I was carelessly extrapoliting this to teenage pregnancy (because the methods to avoid both are the same).

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    28. Re:Fucking morons. by nahdude812 · · Score: 1

      For the first article, good article, terrible site =) Fortunately there was a PDF of the subject matter of the article, and in much greater depth. Unfortunately I find only correlational relationship between sex ed quality and sexual behavior in children. The consequence of this is that we can only say that Europe has better sex ed and also teens have sex later (which was the only significant correlation, the article says they have just as much of it, but starting at a later age, on average one year later).

      This could be the result of better sex ed, but it could also be the result of cultural differences. Are kids given fewer opportunities to sneak off together? Are they culturally less inclined to experiment because they see more unglorified sexuality in the media, etc? Are American kids given more opportunities to sneak off together (American parents work more hours on average by a fair margin)? Are American kids more enticed into experimenting with sex because it's so much more glorified in the media?

      Perhaps it is environmental. Does the meat American kids eat have higher hormone levels in it? American girls are experiencing an earlier average puberty than anywhere else in the world (http://edrv.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/24/ 5/668), so it is very likely that this has an adverse effect on preventing earlier sexual activity. The exact reason American girls are experiencing earlier puberty is not known, though hormones in the food and drinking water are likely culprits. (Note, the drinking water thing is a measurable value, and is possibly the side-effect of higher per capita consumption of oral contraceptives since this causes hormone overflow in urine, and these hormones take a long time to break down, and survive water treatment processses).

      I'm not saying you're wrong. I don't know for sure that you are or aren't, but there are enough variables unaccounted for to make a correlational study unable to establish causation. Honestly I don't have an opinion one way or the other, my jury is still out.

      For the second article, as you observe, this is a causational study between abstinence campaigns and a side-effect of having sex. This is much easier to establish a causal relationship for since there are fewer intervening factors. However there is still *some* in the sense that 1) HIV and poverty are correlated (higher incidence of HIV amongst the impoverished) and 2) poverty and sex ed are inversely correlated (the impoverished get less education about sex ed in general). (see here, warning, pdf) Note that number 2 is most likely a contributing factor to number 1. The consequence of this on the study you quoted is that it may have a negating effect on our ability to measure this.

      However the only way it could be said to have no effect whatsoever on sex rates is if no child was influenced by such a campaign. This I find hard to believe. My wife and I agreed to abstain, and I find it unlikely that we are the only ones.

      Anyway, thanks for the articles, both were very interesting.

    29. Re:Fucking morons. by Sique · · Score: 1

      I don't say abstinence is wrong. I just don't believe you can instill the wish to be abstinent by just preaching it. People who by themself would rather wait with their first sexual experience will wait if they hear the "abstinence" meme, people who weren't interested in abstinence anyway aren't put off by it. So the best you can do is to tell your child what it had to expect and how to deal with it. I was also abstinent until age 20, but in my case it was because of a very profound sexual education. I just knew what would happen, and so I wasn't pressured to find out by myself. When I had my first sexual encounter, it was with my later wife, and we are still married ;)

      There was never the question if we should put off sex until marriage. We had it when we felt it would be good. We married seven years later, when she had a position with the government, where the payment was higher if one was married. Basicly you could say we married because of the money. ;)

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
  15. another way to crack it by ILuvRamen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Any filter with a password means you can sneak the "frklg" keylogger onto your own computer, go to any site that the filter filters that it shouldn't and have the owner of the filter disable it temporarily by putting in the password. Almost all filters have this weakness. Of course some keep a log of times it was disabled and stuff but who reads that lol. I'm thinking this one has a disable password on it too and most kids know about keyloggers

    --
    Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
    1. Re:another way to crack it by Pretendstocare · · Score: 1

      Did you even read the fucking... nevermind...

    2. Re:another way to crack it by ILuvRamen · · Score: 1

      yeeeeah and it didn't say he did it that way. It didn't say how he did it at all. What's your problem?

      --
      Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
    3. Re:another way to crack it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does that take me back... I've actually used this method to circumvent not a filter, but a local web proxy (named "Jana") that my parents installed in order to control my internet access remotely (and time-based).

      Install keylogger, get parent to administrate filter settings, open log, hey presto: Internet access till 4:00 instead of 22:00. I think I was 14 then.

  16. Wood? by echucker · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Is the name coincidence? I think not.

  17. Well... by Kjella · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...if you're interested, skilled enough to find the crack and willing to risk it, chances are pretty slim you'd stop them anyway. Porn filters are only good for stopping those not really motivated.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:Well... by biocute · · Score: 1

      Does unmotivated teens exist?

      If teenagers can unsnap a bra in 5 seconds, why are we surprised that it took 30 minutes to bypass a filter?

    2. Re:Well... by KevReedUK · · Score: 1

      Because we all know that if he'd been using BOTH hands, it would have taken him a damn sight LESS time! 30 minutes? Damn, if his other hand ever left his pants, he'd have that down to 10 minutes!

      --
      Just my $0.03 (At current exchange rates, my £0.02 is worth more than your $0.02)
  18. Here's a link to a real news article... by stoicfaux · · Score: 5, Informative

    The header links to a ad-laden, news light article. Here's a link to a better story with a tad more facts: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22304224-421, 00.html

  19. If you have physical access by nurb432 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Then it can be broken.

    The only way that could even have a prayer to work is at the ISP level.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:If you have physical access by gerbalblaste · · Score: 1

      But then how does the filter differentiate between a child and and adult?

      I find your sig offensive.

    2. Re:If you have physical access by sqrt(2) · · Score: 1

      I find your sig offensive. Too soon?
      --
      If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
    3. Re:If you have physical access by ucblockhead · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What I plan to do: "Hi Son! I'm not going to filter your access. However, I have access to the router logs, so I suggest you don't go anywhere you don't want me to know about."

      --
      The cake is a pie
    4. Re:If you have physical access by thebigmacd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So he will just install Tor and you will no idea where he's been.

    5. Re:If you have physical access by Nimey · · Score: 1

      And you will notice that he's been talking to Tor nodes and LART him.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    6. Re:If you have physical access by Mjec · · Score: 1

      My plan: ensure my kids are well educated, leave them to do whatever they want and check the router logs occasionally to make sure they aren't getting into the dangerous/illegal shit.

      --
      "But everyone should know everything." -markab
    7. Re:If you have physical access by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

      I will know he's using Tor.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    8. Re:If you have physical access by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

      Exactly.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    9. Re:If you have physical access by Crispy+Critters · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "What I plan to do..."

      No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy.

      It sounds like a good idea. I always wonder how many of these good sounding ideas will actually work when I do have kids.

    10. Re:If you have physical access by Wordplay · · Score: 1

      Amen to that. And if TPTB didn't have their head squarely up their asses, trying to replace parentral control, they'd be concentrating on teaching all parents what equipment and techniques they need to use to easily -monitor- their kids internet access, instead of trying to prevent it.

    11. Re:If you have physical access by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What your son should do: "Hi Dad! I'm telling Mom there's a log of every site you've visited."

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    12. Re:If you have physical access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > What I plan to do:

      Here's what I _actually_ do with my kids: Nothing. We have no filters of any kind, just a hardened router/firewall which I maintain (linux based - hey this is /.!)

      I just tell them to be careful and responsible, and it works. (They also know that I have access to the server/router logs, so that might have something to do with it).

      Seriously, I don't care. Attitudes to women are formed by the way they're brought up and the examples set, not by access to porn. "Parenting" is the word people are struggling for here.

      And given that I'm Australian I'm shocked that my taxes are being wasted on this boondoggle. No wait - the current government is run by the Malignant Dwarf (aka J. H.), so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

    13. Re:If you have physical access by kiddygrinder · · Score: 1

      They're onto that one, isps are probably going to be required to offer content filters here in aus shortly.

      --
      This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
    14. Re:If you have physical access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's misleading. I have worked from behind some of the supposedly most sophisticated ISP level filters in the middle east and even they couldn't block everything. I'm not just talking about keyword, IP and DNS blocking but a team of people employed to seek out and block stuff. According to the server logs there were still obviously inappropriate material being viewed in the workplace.

    15. Re:If you have physical access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It is a mistake to think that Moltke thought war plans were of no use (which a simple reading of "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy" would seem to indicate)." - from your link.

      tactics, tactics, tactics.

    16. Re:If you have physical access by ucblockhead · · Score: 1

      You think I'd care?

      My wife's not a stupid woman. She knows this.

      --
      The cake is a pie
    17. Re:If you have physical access by ultranova · · Score: 1

      What I plan to do: "Hi Son! I'm not going to filter your access. However, I have access to the router logs, so I suggest you don't go anywhere you don't want me to know about."

      Therefore teaching him how to sneak around computerized surveillance to access the info he wants without being caught. Not a bad plan, considering the way the world is turning to. Kinda reminds me of the chunin ninja exams in Naruto, where you had to cheat without being caught to pass the test :).

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    18. Re:If you have physical access by thebigmacd · · Score: 1

      That's my point. If you restrict his use of Tor you aren't sticking with your original promise to not block anything.

  20. Here is the actual story, not blogger's article by Kaptain+Kruton · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22304224-421, 00.html
    The summary: A 16 year old student wanted porn. He got it in 30 minutes. The government tried to fix the filter. The 16 year old student wanted more porn. He got more in 40 minutes. 16 year old says the porn filter is waste of money.

    1. Re:Here is the actual story, not blogger's article by Xemu · · Score: 4, Funny

      The summary: A 16 year old student wanted porn. He got it in 30 minutes. The government tried to fix the filter. The 16 year old student wanted more porn. He got more in 40 minutes. 16 year old says the porn filter is waste of money.

      I have a sneaking suspicion that the government programmers are slashdot readers and are secretly supporting the teen's cause for free pr0n, so they aren't really making the filter hard to break. Just enough of a mental challenge for a horny 16 year old. (This may be why there are so few girl programmers. They don't have the right motivation.)

      --
      Tell your friends about xenu.net
    2. Re:Here is the actual story, not blogger's article by EagleEye101 · · Score: 1

      I wish i didn't use all my mod points already... I would have modded you up

    3. Re:Here is the actual story, not blogger's article by Barny · · Score: 1

      Actually...

      A student who had told the minister who organised all this that "it would be a waste of money, get something made locally" showed the news people how easy it is to crack, to which the government said "oh but here's a free Australian made filter program!" and he cracked that in a little extra time.

      Really short version, unless they want to make us into china2.0 they have no fucking chance of doing this successfully, this is an election year, they tried a $80M+ publicity stunt, and screwed the pooch with it.

      The best bit? their $80M publicity stunt was paid for by the taxpayers :/

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    4. Re:Here is the actual story, not blogger's article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that picture is priceless.

  21. Why we will never see Those Robotic Overlords by infonography · · Score: 1

    Information (panties) wants to be free, those clever teen velvet monkeys are everywhere. Mostly though I keep thinking of a line from the Movie Akira (the English version) "If humans think something is possible, eventually they find a way to do it, like it's instinctual." (I am not going to Google the exact wording but the upshot is the same. A motivated kid is impossible to stop.

    And it would have works except for those damn kids.

    --
    Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
    1. Re:Why we will never see Those Robotic Overlords by zenhkim · · Score: 1

      > from the Movie Akira (the English version) "If humans think something is possible, eventually they find a way to do it, like it's instinctual."

      Sorry, but that line's actually from the first "Ghost in The Shell" movie, which (if I remember correctly) goes like this: "As soon as mankind realizes a technology is possible, he achieves it. It's damn near instinctive."

      Both movies are awesome, but Ghost in The Shell made far more sense (to me) as a true sci-fi story.

      --
      "All hands, BRACE FOR IMPACT!"
  22. So, John Conner did it? by antdude · · Score: 1

    According to the article's picture, John Conner hacked the filter? I wonder if his mother, Sarah, knows about this. [grin]

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  23. breaking the chains by Zareste · · Score: 1

    Until Christians are brought to a bloody justice, it'll have to do,

    --
    I am NOT a number! I am a - oh wait, I'm number 761710. Look! 761710!
    1. Re:breaking the chains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wtf please explain k thx

    2. Re:breaking the chains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not just Christians - all religious fundamentalists.

  24. Cheapest Solution... by arthurpaliden · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The simplest and cheapest way to stop / reduce a kids ability / opportunity to access porn, an other such nefarious sites, on the Internet is to put the computer in a well traveled place in the home, say beside the kitchen and not up in there room where they cannot be supervised directly.



    Its called 'parenting' and it really works.



    Rebuttals featuring 'special cases' will be ignored.

    1. Re:Cheapest Solution... by Copid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's a very good solution. Alternately, if people insist on a technical solution, perhaps create one that makes people accountable for what they do rather than an easily defeated barrier. Maybe a password-protected cable modem that logs activity? Can't remove it or you lose access, can't just boot from a live CD. Clearing the password would be noticed when the parent logs into the web interface to check the log. Parents say, "Use your good judgment. I reserve the right to audit your history." Any technical solution can be broken, but filters are perhaps the dumbest of the dumb.

      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
    2. Re:Cheapest Solution... by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's probably the best idea. Don't try to filter stuff, because you're either not filter everything, or filter too much. Just either put your computer in a room where you would be likely to walk by at any time, or put in some kind of proxy machine so that you can monitor what's going on. Even if they use HTTPs, you can see what IPs they are connecting to. This can help determine what they are looking at. Also, once they start looking for it, don't assume the internet is the only place they will find it. We all got a hold of it somehow when we were kids without the internet, and we all turned out pretty normal (by we, I mean just about everybody in society). For the most part, I'd just put the computer in a well travelled room. All this proxy/filter/nanny stuff is too much, and just shows a lot of distrust in your children, and probably won't stop them from seeing porn anyway.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    3. Re:Cheapest Solution... by Duncan+Blackthorne · · Score: 1

      Thank You for saying that, I'm glad (for once) to not be the first.

    4. Re:Cheapest Solution... by fermion · · Score: 1
      I agree, but there is still a use for these types of filters. They can serve as a gentle reminder, like a lock on the liquor cabinet, of the rules of the house. The unsophisticated kid will say that the lock serves no purpose and easily circumvented. More sophisticated kids will realize that lock is symbolic. Furthermore, the lock is choice made by the parent, not the state.

      This is an interesting case as the child disabled the gentle warning without letting others know the warning was disabled. For such a kid gentle reminders are not going to work, and in fact is the reason why draconian laws exist. Put simply, parents aren't just going to sit idly by and look on as the kid becomes a member of the darwin awards, and if a kid does not respond to warnings, most parents will take more aggressive actions.

      Many will say the teens are sexual creatures, and the same is true for drugs and bad driving, which is absolutely true. The key is convince the kid not to abuse these things. Such abuse can not only negatively effect the teen, but also innocent people, such as truck drivers, who get caught up in the drama.

      Let me just say this. Sexually explicit images are more readily available today than at any other time I can remember. It is no longer necessary to steal magazines, or sneak to the back of bookstores, or leaf through womens magazines in libraries. Even with filters, the images and text available far surpass what was available even 10 years ago. I would be concerned about a kid so desperate to find more of this material that they need to bypass the gentle reminders.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    5. Re:Cheapest Solution... by It'sYerMam · · Score: 1

      Even that technical solution could be bypassed by using anonymizing software, surely? If you used Tor and Privoxy, then any outgoing packets would be encrypted, and their destination unknown. The only fix is to have the computer directly observable.

      --
      im in ur .sig, writin ur memes.
    6. Re:Cheapest Solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think filtering might be a good idea for really young children, who likely won't be looking for porn but might stumble across it by accident. But there are really good software apps. out there already for this, most of them free like: http://www.parentalcontrolbar.org/

    7. Re:Cheapest Solution... by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      easiest way to keep your Children from the "Vile Demons Of the Internet" (at least in your home)

      1 have the incoming cable run to a nice closet with a locking door
      2 place the Router and a nice shuttle box with twin nics in the closet
      3 wire it CM > SB > Router
      4 Install a nice logging/filter ap on the SB and have it respond to a set of paswords (it should somehow give you the "next password" when you use each password)
      5 lock the closet and pray

      6 hope the kids don't find out about any unsecured wifi in the area
      7 or get into that closet
      8 or get a WiMax module
      9 or....

      i figure the best way to solve this is to remove the need at all (if they see women as fellow beings an not as objects why would they need porn??)

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    8. Re:Cheapest Solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or possibly, that's setting yourself up one day for coming back into your house and getting to see your child masturbating in the public area, hoping you weren't coming home right then...

    9. Re:Cheapest Solution... by Fex303 · · Score: 1

      (if they see women as fellow beings an not as objects why would they need porn??)
      Because they want to see those fellow beings engaged in sex because a) they are curious and b) they find it arousing.

      I'm surprised I need to answer these questions for you. Perhaps you were never a teenager?

    10. Re:Cheapest Solution... by BoiseAlf · · Score: 1

      The proxy machine isn't meant to spy on your children for the purposes of taking any actions against them... it's an easy way to discover the new porn sites out there.

    11. Re:Cheapest Solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Its called 'parenting' and it really works. Rebuttals featuring 'special cases' will be ignored.

      What if Mom and Dad are blind? What good would it do to have the computer in the living room so they could monitor what their kids are doing on the internet? (Sorry. I just couldn't resist your challenge about rebuttals featuring 'special cases.')

    12. Re:Cheapest Solution... by rizole · · Score: 1

      Too difficult. Just rename your prOn folder to "Work", "Stamp Collection Database", "Great Aunt Mabel" or "Danger - Do not open this folder". That'll fox the little buggers.

    13. Re:Cheapest Solution... by SL+Baur · · Score: 1

      I also recommend logging. Kids are going to find a way around any obstacle to get at something they really want. "Keep out of reach of children" is a serious problem in the earliest years (my youngest son has now figured out how his hands work and he'll start walking in a few weeks, joy). I think the bigger problem is that some parents never get out of that mode and at some point you must start trusting your kids' better judgment. Americans have largely forgotten this.

    14. Re:Cheapest Solution... by arthurpaliden · · Score: 1

      One of the public affairs TV programs up here in Canada did a test. They put a bunch of kids, ages 3-5, in a room with a bunch of child proof pill bottles from various manufacturers using different 'safty mechanisums'. Each child had their own set. Each bottle contained a few pieces of candy. With in 5 minutes all the bottles were open. None were proken.

    15. Re:Cheapest Solution... by kaizokuace · · Score: 1

      and its a waste of processor cycles! precious cycles...

      --
      Balderdash!
  25. Re: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It'th more about teaching young men to show re-th-pect for women, you th-ee, and al-tho about re-th-pecting your-th-elf....

  26. "$84.4 million for the National Filter Scheme" by Wilson_6500 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've never heard of a more appropriately-named government project. $84M for a continually-updated filter that a kid (sounds like a smart kid, but a kid nonetheless) can break in less than an hour.

    Why can't America's politicians up and admit to their schemes, too? Imagine it: the PATRIOT Scheme, the Communications Decency Scheme, and so on.

    1. Re:"$84.4 million for the National Filter Scheme" by Barny · · Score: 1

      It was a publicity stunt gone bad really, this is an election year, they wanted the family vote, now their kids get pictures of scrote :P

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
  27. Dr. Cox quote.... by ZiakII · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm fairly sure that if they took all the porn off the Internet, there'd only be 1 website left, and it would be called Bring Back The Porn.

    1. Re:Dr. Cox quote.... by mrscorpio · · Score: 1

      AKA simply as "Slashdot"

    2. Re:Dr. Cox quote.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhh, I felt a shiver when the words "took, porn, off, internet" pictured on my retina!

  28. Filter Schmilter. by Organic+Brain+Damage · · Score: 5, Funny

    The problem of teen access to internet porn is self-limiting. The boy will eventually go blind and then what's he gonna do? Digitized braille porn?

    1. Re:Filter Schmilter. by The+Bungi · · Score: 1

      Looks like you have yourself a business model :)

    2. Re:Filter Schmilter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And he won't be able to type with those hairy palms...

    3. Re:Filter Schmilter. by ultranova · · Score: 1

      The problem of teen access to internet porn is self-limiting. The boy will eventually go blind and then what's he gonna do? Digitized braille porn?

      Get a 3D printer ?-)

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    4. Re:Filter Schmilter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem of teen access to internet porn is self-limiting. The boy will eventually go blind and then what's he gonna do? Digitized braille porn?

      Finally, a solution! Unless he has three hands....

  29. No Surprise by gweihir · · Score: 2, Insightful

    These filters do not work for several reasons. One is that porn is hard to recognize for software. There is no AI that can do it. A second reason is that internet filtering only works at a chocke-point, for example the giant chinese firewall, with its attached civil servants that issue the warrants. (We had a talk about this thing here by some chinese guy. Of course the warrant-writers were omitted, but it was obvious they were there.) You can tunnel through firewalls, for example with SSL or SSH.

    For years security experts generally predict these efforts a time to be broken of at most a few weeks. The basic problem is that the approach is wrong and that it is both pushed by incompetent politicians (incompetence of the 2nd order: they do not know they are incompetent.) and companies that promies effective solutions, but in truth only want to earn a lot of money and know their solutions will not really work.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:No Surprise by Barny · · Score: 1

      How about filtering out images with unusually high counts of pink pixels?

      Now I know this will stop you looking for the latest in Hello Kitty! gear, but sacrifices need to be made here :)

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    2. Re:No Surprise by ch0ad · · Score: 1

      There is no AI that can do it. well the ps3 is hauntingly good at picking out faces in a picture. im positive they could develop algorithms to detect the nakedness of people. would be a big waste of resources, granted, but it's possible.
    3. Re:No Surprise by Frenchman113 · · Score: 1

      Then we'd get porn with clothes! If you use enough imaginition... On second thought, let's not go there.

    4. Re:No Surprise by gweihir · · Score: 1

      How about filtering out images with unusually high counts of pink pixels?

      Hehe. But what about a) non-white actors/actresses b) tinting the images c) some landscape in addition d) all
      the other stuff that does not the through

      Seriously, this does not work at all. It has been tried.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    5. Re:No Surprise by gweihir · · Score: 1

      well the ps3 is hauntingly good at picking out faces in a picture. im positive they could develop algorithms to detect the nakedness of people. would be a big waste of resources, granted, but it's possible.

      Faces are easy, they have some very distinctive properties. The rest of the human anatomy is a lot harder, exactly because it is simple in structure and has far higher variation.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    6. Re:No Surprise by Anonamused+Cow-herd · · Score: 1

      One is that porn is hard to recognize for software.

      Yep. There's another biggie you don't mention too: porn can come from almost anywhere. Filtering gets realllllly tricky when people start getting porn via p2p or distributed fileservers, for example. I think that if a kid found out he couldn't access some porn site because of a filter, he'd just fire up kazaa (or whatever silly children use these days) and get something 50x worse there.

      I actually think it's often worse -- while you're much more likely to find vanilla porn on web sites, there's no end to the incredibly niche crap (pun intended) you can find via p2p.

      --
      -----[0_o]-----
      We are not amused.
  30. What is this? a blog? a news article? by DogDude · · Score: 1

    What is this? This looks like a random blog entry from some random, anonymous person with no references to any actual reporting, whatsoever. What a shitty Slashdot "article".

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
  31. I'm of two minds on this..... by Stanislav_J · · Score: 3, Insightful

    (....although some would say that's 2 minds more than I actually possess. But I digress...)

    I applaud any successful circumvention of anything that restricts information to those who want to see it. But at the same time I'm starting to think that we shouldn't be shouting from the housetops about it -- this kind of publicly announced hack is just fuel for the fire to the folks that would ban all even remotely sexually material from the Net. It just gives them the chance to say "well, see, filters don't work worth a damn -- therefore, we must make it illegal for any explicit material to be on the Internet." Can't you hackers just keep your little mouths shut, let the moralists THINK that the filters work (while you quietly and discreetly circulate the hack), and let their ignorance be our bliss?

    --
    "Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket." -- Eric Hoffer
  32. When did Pinocchio know ... by tiananmen+tank+man · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    When did Pinocchio know he was made of wood?

    When his right hand caught on fire.

    1. Re:When did Pinocchio know ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When did Pinocchio know he was made of wood? When his right hand caught on fire. Lucky it was only his hand that caught fire then, wasn't it?
  33. Actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm surprised they've never tried to make a porn filter that blocks access based on whether you're typing one-handed.

    I mean, they can detect cat-like typing, after all...

  34. Solution to $hard_problem by GuldKalle · · Score: 2, Funny

    They should make a filter that required you to provide world peace, cure cancer or something. Put all that horny teen energy to some use

    --
    What?
    1. Re:Solution to $hard_problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, just tell the japanese they'll get real live tentacles and they'll go for it.

  35. $84 million dollars??? by ZorinLynx · · Score: 1

    What the hell did they spend this money on?

    Assuming just HALF of it was for developers, that's:

    42,000,000 / 60000 = SEVEN HUNDRED developers making $60K a year!

    What the hell were they doing? Picking their noses?

    I'm sure a small team of even five developers can come up with an effective filtering solution for a small fraction of that cost.

    Why is it that governments are willing to overspend so much? Is it a case of "we have a ton of money, so let's be lazy and just throw a bunch of it at a problem so we don't have to shop around"?

    Arrrgh. Morons.

    1. Re:$84 million dollars??? by Vegeta99 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dude, you think you could sling code with all them titties dancin' in your face all day? I mean, one or two pairs of bouncing boobies is OK, but once you start adding "pasties and leather" to the block list, it's just going to be impossible. For me, anyway. What were we talking about? brb, yo.

    2. Re:$84 million dollars??? by wootest · · Score: 1

      First, it's Australian dollars, so it's "only" above 69 (ha!) million US dollars.

      Second: A big government is looking for some "industrial strength" filter. They find three alternatives, $40,000, $10 million and $84 million. A filter for $40,000 can't be that good, can it? In fact, $40,000 might be approaching a third of what the salary is of the government committee that's surveying the choices. So if they buy something that cheap, they don't get to prove that they're worth their salary, and the administration might be attacked as just getting the cheapest option on the table and trying to avoid the issue. If the other two cost in the two-digit millions, the first alternative is probably bullshit, the government decides. They can afford the $84 million filter, so they buy it, thinking that even if it's not 8.4 times better, it cost a lot more to make, so it's probably involved more people, or as many but higher-paid people, so it must be better.

      So that'd be how they inflate it up to these numbers. Even with margins, management wallet padding, sustained support and upkeep, I, like you, can't see the fair price of the whole deal being above, say, $10 million.

    3. Re:$84 million dollars??? by ZorinLynx · · Score: 1

      Hmm, another thing I just realized...

      Why is the government involved in this at all? Shouldn't the private sector be able to fill citizens' network filtering needs? There's a crapload of companies out there that sell filtering solutions for nearly all platforms. It doesn't sound like it's something the government needs to have its fingers in.

  36. If the parents can afford an $84M porn filter by Provocateur · · Score: 1

    ...I'd say let the kid do whatever the f*** he wants.

    spoiled brat...

    --
    WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
  37. $84,000,000? by pabrown85 · · Score: 1

    Can someone explain why a filter would cost $84 million?

    1. Re:$84,000,000? by Racemaniac · · Score: 1

      buying tons of porn so they can filter it ofcourse

    2. Re:$84,000,000? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's made of a gold-platinum alloy nano-mesh. These 'packets' are very small you see. The gold must be used because it conducts very well, if there's too much resistance it will clog up the tube. Think of it like the air filter in your car...

  38. Porn is a gift from God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I agree, it's not for children, but otherwise, it is a healthy, wondrous, bountiful thing.

    Thank you, God, for all of the various pleasures you have bestowed upon our lives, porn being one of the many of them.

    And please forgive those who know you not and engage in the sins of censorship and Taliban-like moralizing. Go back to the Middle East, you oppressive religious jerks.

    1. Re:Porn is a gift from God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have no fucking clue how much those chaps go for porn!

      But what would you expect from sexually oppressed men caught in a quagmire of being hot to the point of boiling over, and a life-threatening fear to miss out on a place with 72 virgins servicing all their (likewise) needs.
      So they rather have their fingers on another kind of trigger. And still watch porn like hell.

      Oh well

    2. Re:Porn is a gift from God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was referring to Christians.

      But, hey, different stripes, same ugly hater-religious mind within.

  39. no surprise, but... by Atilla · · Score: 1

    What is funny to me is that $84 million of aussies' hard-earned tax money is spent on keeping people from beating off at work.

    --
    --- sig moved for great justice.
  40. And then he would lose his access by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    It's not like the grandparent simply can't take away his computer privileges if he does something he shouldn't, like uses Tor to try and cloak what he's doing. This isn't a situation of plausible deniability, the kid can't say "Well you can't prove anything, so you can't do anything!" Sorry, it's the parent's computer and network, he can revoke all access if he likes.

    The idea here is allowing the kid access and giving them trust, but letting them know if that trust is abuse the access can and will be taken away.

  41. Porn filters are a great idea! by Afecks · · Score: 1

    It's about time that someone gets angry over our children being subjected to low quality porn. Hopefully these new filters will fix that. Won't somebody think of the children!

  42. One of the good sides of censorship by Casandro · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In my opinion this is one of the good sides of censorship. If children are able to learn how to circumvent censorship they will learn an important step to beeing mature net-citicens.

  43. Only 1 sin here by Dakuma · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only sin committed here, is the Governement spending $84 million on a Porn Filter! How many other programs would that kind of money funded, oh wait we are talking about the Government are we not. Think of the food that could buy to feed people in need, womens shelters, life saving operations.. and on and on. Despite that, they spend it on a Porn Filter. Even if they succeeded, there are still magazines, movies etc.. and if in some distant future they manage to erase all traces of Porn the world over... that still leaves the imagination..

    1. Re:Only 1 sin here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "How many other programs would that kind of money funded"

      To give you an idea of how much we're talking, this is roughly the annual budget of the National Library of Australia. (For USA ppl, thats our Library of Congress equivalent).

      Gives you an idea of the priorities, eh? Oh, and don't forget, there's an election due sometime in the coming months - vote buying, anybody?

      ps: posting a/c for employment reasons...

  44. Computer education technique by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a great way to teach teens how to use computers!

  45. Bureaucratic Costs? by Rog7 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    84 Million? That's twice Blizzard's developing budget for World of Warcraft... for a porn filter. Seriously?

    1. Re:Bureaucratic Costs? by SgtG · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that World of Warcraft is probably infinitely more effective at preventing computer savvy teenagers from being sexually active than any sort of porn filter could be.

  46. $84m for a choice of crudware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yep an election is coming here up soon .. gotta get those bible bashers to vote for Johnny, so screw the cost.

    So the question slashdotters really want to know is ... Did the govt put up any Linux proggies to download ?
    And the answer is no ... Good to know that the bible bashers are leaving linux users alone.

    Your choices are:
    Integard v1.04
    Optenet Web Filter PC 9.6
    Safe Eyes
    http://www.netalert.gov.au/forms/process-download. php

  47. Surely you don't mean... by mutube · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...but you can teach your kid never to go looking for it and what to do if he accidentally finds it.

    Masturbate?
    1. Re:Surely you don't mean... by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 4, Funny

      Go confess to their priest, who will explain that they should become choirboys and learn about the "eighthth sacrament" that only the most special choirboys get?

    2. Re:Surely you don't mean... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To fuck the hottest choirgirl?

  48. Governments shouldn't have money. by Jessta · · Score: 1

    $84 million dollars? WTF?
    Which that sort of money you could create something useful...
    Governments shouldn't have money.

    --
    ...and that is all I have to say about that.
    http://jessta.id.au
    1. Re:Governments shouldn't have money. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The government hasn't created anything.

      They've paid $84m to foreign crudware producers for unlimited user licenses.
      Just part of another Liberal Party pre-election funding scam.

  49. Re:Another Solution... by bussdriver · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A teen need not seek out porn when he just has to find girls that will put out; and those are more common as women gain more social equality and freedom.

    Some teens might be better with the porn than diseases or their own children. How about a study on the impact porn has on teen sex related problems?

    Physically adulthood is sooner than our cultural adulthood (the mental threshold IS cultural) and therein lies the bulk of the problem. The whole issue is a cultural one which as a result has little fact or logical foundation and more to do with belief, dogma, tradition, peer pressure, etc... Religion and SIMILAR belief structures should be prevented from getting into government. Its a core reason for having a Republic as opposed to an actual Democracy; protect the minority from the majority.

    Non-Disclaimer: I will not cave into judgmental self-centered people who think other people can't understand points of view that they do not agree with.

  50. Someone to try and pass on some details, please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Read all comments up to here.
    I'm really curious to know a tad more. Can one of those three in here, who actually run Windows, be kind enough and give it a try ? It is here:
    http://netalert.gov.au/filters.html
    You have to give an e-mail address, and an Australian postcode (if memory serves right, 4 digits).
    And here is the honourable Mistress, eeh Ministress:
    http://netalert.gov.au/news_and_events.html
    She doesn't look like resisting the offer of some decent indecent products. Actually, to her looks, she could have been in this business until short time ago:
    http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/10/18/19N_C OONAN_narrowweb__300x392,0.jpg
    Oh, her boobs turn me on:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikinews/en/thumb/d/d1 /HelenCoonan.JPG/200px-HelenCoonan.JPG

    Sorry, need my hands for something else ...

  51. All I can say is.... by nevillethedevil · · Score: 1
    pwned or is that pron(d).......

    Oh I have to stop drinking this early in the day.

    --
    Be gone from my sight or prepare to feel my flaming wraith!
  52. Stupid kid by commodoresloat · · Score: 1

    Once his parents read about this on slashdot the jig will be up.

  53. Re:You know what they say.... by symbolic · · Score: 1

    Where there's a willie there's a way.

  54. Goverment becomes PORN Source by mgrennan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I gave up using these filters. My son show me not only could he bypass it easy but he could reverse the filter and use it as a source of good sites to go to.

    --
    There are 10 type of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
  55. Buying 3rd party by Craig+Ringer · · Score: 1

    The government isn't, as such, spending $84 million on a porn filter. They're spending $84 million subsidising licenses for 3rd party filter software at minimally discounted or non-discounted rates.

    Frankly, I think it's nonsensical, but it DOES help keep the religious crazies quiet without them making another mandatory ISP filtering push. As if the last one (that was actually passed into law here!) ever had any effect beyond being openly ignored by ISPs as impractical and downright stupid. It stops them demanding something even more absurdly costly and embarrassing.

  56. Alberta by maz2331 · · Score: 1

    Didn't Alberta flat-out refuse to participate in the system?

  57. Re: and the actual filters by whitehatlurker · · Score: 1
    See the Australian gov't page. They are simply using off-the-shelf proxy filters. (It's nice to see that the Mac filter supports IE 7. How?) It shouldn't be too difficult to bypass these. I don't think half an hour should be needed.

    As the site says:

    PLEASE NOTE: Internet content filters are a tool to be used in conjunction with parental supervision they do not provide total protection in themselves.
    --
    .. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
  58. What form does this filter take? by jimicus · · Score: 1

    I note from he summary that "the icon is still there".

    How come there even is an icon to see? I'd have expected such a filter to be implemented on a physically separate proxy server operated by the ISP - otherwise how does a parent who's got a Mac or an older PC use the product? Unless the software is on a proxy server but there's a Windows applet which confirms that the proxy is being used.

    Even then, Tor (or similar) would make short work of this.

  59. Porn? Pleasure??? by www.sorehands.com · · Score: 1

    Porn is more like going into a restraint, smelling the food, watching people eat, looking at the menu, but not being able to eat.

    1. Re:Porn? Pleasure??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot is not the place for your bizarre food bondage fetish.

    2. Re:Porn? Pleasure??? by NMerriam · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Porn is more like going into a restraint, smelling the food, watching people eat, looking at the menu, but not being able to eat.


      I love the Freudian slip of writing "restraint" instead of "restaurant". I guess we know which kind of porn you prefer.

      As to the actual content of your post:

      1) Many people orgasm through some means while watching porn. So it's more like admiring someone else's dinner while waiting for the waiter to bring yours out.

      2) Most people enjoy the smell of fresh baked bread, cookies, etc, even if they don't eat them. I love the sizzle of a steak even if I'm not eating it. Part of the reason people go to restaurants instead of eating at home all the time is that the experience is much more sensually stimulating -- smells, sounds, sights. You don't have to eat every plate of food in a restaurant to have your enjoyment of your own meal enhanced by their presence.
      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    3. Re:Porn? Pleasure??? by pasamio · · Score: 2, Funny

      So by that token an orgy also makes sex better?

      --
      I always wondered where this setting was...
    4. Re:Porn? Pleasure??? by NMerriam · · Score: 1

      I think it is safe to say that if you could go to an orgy with no obligations of sexual activity with others, and you knew that it would be filled only with people both you and your partner found amazingly attractive, charming, witty and you knew were healthy, discreet and wildly attracted to you, most people would indeed have a great time.

      But that's a bit harder to find than a good restaurant.

      Finding porn both people think is sexy is a much more achievable sexual goal.

      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    5. Re:Porn? Pleasure??? by king-manic · · Score: 1



      1) Many people orgasm through some means while watching porn. So it's more like admiring someone else's dinner while waiting for the waiter to bring yours out.



      I think a better analogy is watching a cooking show on TV as they make a steak dinner while you eat some pizza pockets and wash it down with soda. It's no steak dinner but it'll hold you until you get some real food. Porn isn't sex but it'll hold ya until you get some real sex.

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    6. Re:Porn? Pleasure??? by NMerriam · · Score: 1

      Oh come on, this is slashdot, can't anyone come up with a car analogy? :P

      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    7. Re:Porn? Pleasure??? by king-manic · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh come on, this is slashdot, can't anyone come up with a car analogy? :P

      Alright, Porn is like the 8 years old chevette you drove for years until you got a real job and could buy a decent car. Chevrolet Chevette is porn (cheap unfulfillable and causes chaffing), Ford Focus is a hand job from the easy girl in class (a bit rough, cramped and ugly), Honda Civic was the blow job from the first GF who was too scared to do it for real (good and fun but kind of common and everyone gets one), the Ford mustang will be your first time (quick, short lived, busted too early, and kind of ugly and messy), The BMW 3 series will be the first stable GF who puts out (not as good as advertised but adequate), a Lexus IS350 will be the hottest GF ever had (expensive but worth it), and a Dodge caravan is like a marriage (ugly, but feels like home. ), and finally a porche boxster is like the mistress you pick up at 50 (expensive, fun, and a sign you are past you prime but not mature enough to admit it).

      better?

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
  60. Somebody please think about the children! by elmartinos · · Score: 1

    Watch this timeless masterpiece of sexual education. We have to save the children!

    http://www.ludzer.com/2007/07/22/anti-porn-psa-fro m-the-1960s/

  61. That's not porn... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's HENTAI!

    Look at the picture in the news.au story ;)

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22304224-421, 00.html

  62. Who Cares... by Light_Wong · · Score: 0

    ... as long as kids will grow up to fight and die for jingoism, without ever requiring philosophy, biology, Constitution ideals or meaningful participation in the social systems for which most of educational institutions fail to prepare them, there's no need to be concerned.

    Move along... there's nothing to see here.

    "I know it when I see it" -- Justice Potter Stewart from his concurring opinion in Jacobellis v. Ohio.

  63. Anybody could hack it in 30 seconds... by xdancergirlx · · Score: 1

    if they had a robotic arm like that! I am surprised it took that long, his parents must have tried liquid nitrogen on him.

    John Conner

  64. Government wastage is standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're forgetting you're talking about Government spend. That means:

    - it will involve Consultants. Not that they add any *real* value over contractors, but the form a convenient escape hatch if something negative gets into the press. If it's positive the Gov will take credit, of course. And besides, it's YOUR money. If they run out they can always go and tax some new out of you.

    - it will involve Consultants to do a feasibility study. This invariably yields a "yes" answer, but just in case there could be any doubt, giving that same consultancy then the work will ensure that whoever dreamt up the idea in the first place is not going to be embarrassed by a report that states it's plain stupid as ideas go.

    - it will involve Consultants building the damn thing. Given the lack of ability in most Governments (they've outsourced thinking as well), the Consultancy will have been given free reign in specifying the solution, and can subsequently charge the heck out of the project for change control. Oversight does not exist (I told you they have been outsourcing thinking) so if the project is mismanaged and Consultants sit around doing absolutely nothing for a week, that's OK too - the billing won't stop.

    - the real thinking will be outsourced to an Indian outfit for something close to out-of-date peanuts, and quality control won't really exist other than that the solution should vaguely work and look pretty. Any capable Consultants in the team then end up correcting the crap before it goes anywhere near the public, but because most of them have become so lazy after absorbing Government cash it'll be a case of 2 or 3 people doing the work and gettting bad performance reviews because they don't hang out with the project leaders in the pub, and a whole raft of people getting promoted because they do (the ability to absorb oney without doing any work is the sort of skill you need to promote). It's a natural, Darwinian approach to ensure no other skills are left as that would show up everyone else.

    - the thing will go live, occasionally in time which surprises everyone. The moment the speeches have been had and the system is about to be used for real, elections appear and system failures and problems will be the fault of the 'other' party. And Consultants will confirm (when paid, of course). And Change Control will yet again be the cash cow.

    Don't believe me?

    How do you think the UK Government ID Card scheme came to be? How does doing nothing for a week and charge GBP 2 million for it grab you? The trick is to ensure audit is ran by an ex consultant too..

    $84 million is cheap IMHO - even if it was USD.

  65. Let's think of the children for once by nEoN+nOoDlE · · Score: 3, Funny

    Seriously, people. Everyone here thinks that "thinking of the children" is a crappy excuse to take away our rights, but in this case it really is about the children! When I was 14 and wanted to masturbate, I had to actually close my eyes and imagine Sarah from Bio class in a short skirt with no panties on bending over as she drops her pen. Now it's just too easy for kids. They could get that image of Sarah (and MUCH more... oh so much more) just by spending a few minutes clicking on the computer. It's seriously ruining our children's imaginations. Without being able to close your eyes and envision naked girls with pinpoint accuracy, how will we expect our kids to grow up and solve problems in imaginative ways? So please, think of the children and make them work to get off.

    --
    Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
    1. Re:Let's think of the children for once by segra · · Score: 1

      TV ruins imaginations, as well as memories and perception of the world... I've been watching some friends kids grow up over the past few years, the mother puts them infront of the TV all the time. They have short attention span, they have really bad memories and I doubt they even have an imagination. Sure the eldest is only 6, but by 5 i was typing basic programs into the C64 from the manual ;) And just to get back on topic for a second, my dad had "sex games" on the c64/amiga/pc for as long as I can remember. He never tried to really hide them from me, just assumed I didn't know what they where. But I played them from as long I can remember, I used to play strip poker 3 on the amiga all the time when i was 9. Personally I think it did me more good than hiding it from me... Most, if not all, of my friends have a strong sex drive, all the time. something which I don't really care about (I recall reading somewhere being exposed to that sort of material at a young age was meant to make you sex wild??), all of them had parents who did their best to hide sex from them until the schools taught it (age 12,15 here)

    2. Re:Let's think of the children for once by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi, this is Sarah from Bio class.

      You fucking pervert.

    3. Re:Let's think of the children for once by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, no honey, he means me.
      I'm Sarah from Bio class - the cute slim one.
      Guys don't (generally) whack off to fat ugly chicks.

      This is why he didn't qualify 'Sarah'. Anytime any male from that class says 'Sarah' you know its me.

      Since we're here: Yes, the whole class did know that you fondled Joey when he was tackled and piled on by everyone at rec. He swore he had bruise marks the size of your fingers..

  66. Yer supposed to touch yourself, not just look! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Dude, you're supposed to touch yourself while you look at it!

    Didn't your friends teach you how to do it?

  67. Isn't this really about DRM? by WheelDweller · · Score: 1

    You and I are morons; we couldn't possibly understand the complexities of the music business...we just don't have their pay! Inconceivable!

    Yet the old-world robber-barrons who hire people to be on the watch for people singing "Happy Birthday" can't seem to identify the same thing this story shows: in computers, there's always someone more clever than yourself. Time and time again they try some lame attempt to get paid for every copy of a title (Oh! And give $.03 or so to the artist!) and they get crazy because they can't stop the piracy and sales keep going down.

    It's time to see these old-timers for what they are: future exhibits next to the cavemen.

    What makes this worse is that, in the same week-or-so, another kid cracked the AT&T/iPhone lock, so it could be used on other carriers. Wouldn't it make more sense to SELL as many iPhones as possible, considering a royalty on the idea?

    TIME TO CHANGE THE PARADIGM, GUYS.

    But ignorance is bliss; aren't we happy? Now let's go down to NYC and watch the robber-barons fight to get a cab! :>

    --
    --- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
  68. Although maybe it doesn't matter... by HexRei · · Score: 1

    The article was seriously lacking on info. The fact that they don't even know his age makes me question whether his method was tested, either. The quote at the end makes it sound like propaganda.

  69. mod by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    eom

  70. Wood? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    heh, heh, heh.. his name is wood

  71. $84 million? by rastoboy29 · · Score: 1

    I mean seriously...what the hell did they spend that much money on?  Licensing?  'cause there's no way you could spend that much making almost ANY piece of software, let alone a stupid-ass IP blocking filter!

  72. A Parent's Perspective by CrankyOldBastard · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A few years back I found my eldest son (12 at the time( was using the small dark hours to view various kinds of porn. Some was 'normal' but there were many sites that were et the more extreme end of human sexuality.

    I set up a transparent proxy with Dansguardian. Do I think it's impossible for my kids to find porn (or other content I'm uncomfortable for my kids to see) ? No. But I do know that it's unlikely for them to stumble across it accidentally. If they set to work to find and view porn, they'll find a way around the filters.

    I also took a few of the images C. had looked at, and by zooming and playing with palettes showed him the scars of self-mutilation, the scars from slashed wrists, the track marks, the rotting teeth and the sores. He now knows that many of the girls have pretty nasty problems, as well as nasty habits. He also can see that many of the girls are being exploited, and that porn denigrates humans, unlike art which glorifies the body or casts these girls onto the canvas of our own life to challenge our our nice safe prejudices.

    I know if my kids view porn. They know that I know. I also know that they have at least a glimmering of some of the moral and social issues involved. Hopefully I've also provided some guidance about what constitutes 'normal' and what the difference is between sex as an act of love and sex as exploitation for purposes of ego stroking.

    So my approach as a parent is (1) make it less likely that they'll find porn by accident (2) make sure they're game to talk to me about it (3) make sure they see woman as more than a set of orifices in a warm bundle (4) make sure they know that their dreams and urges are normal and (5) that they are the only ones who can decide whether they treat Human Beings with respect as Divine Creatures deserve.

    I figure that if (however unlikely) I can make some headway on all these points, I'll have got some wins, and their chances of happy future relationships are (slightly?) improved. I think thats my job - the rest is up to them.

    1. Re:A Parent's Perspective by 5i · · Score: 2

      Wow. That was inspiring. Not often that happens on here. Thank you.

    2. Re:A Parent's Perspective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're a sick sonnofabitch spying on your son's jerking off habits.. at least in the old day you'd just steal your dad's porn mags while he was out, but now your parents can pinpoint the exact moment that you orgasm, and what picture or video it was to

    3. Re:A Parent's Perspective by Amazetbm · · Score: 1

      Wow, a parent who understands responsibilities of being a parent. It's good to see that some one who is proactive in their children's positive upbringing instead of blaming outside sources all the time.

      --
      He who laughs last...probably didn't get the joke.
  73. Slashdot by Pseudonymus+Bosch · · Score: 1

    What if you redirect every porn page to Slashdot? That would keep the kids away from sex for years.

    --
    __
    Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
    GW Bu
  74. disgrace to the aussie government by segra · · Score: 1

    They should arrest him, after all the stories I've read on here about people finding security holes and reporting them, then finding themselves in lawsuits for damages.... Then this this kid comes along and wastes $84 million worth of taxpayer dollars!! The Howard government should be disgraced with itself

  75. The article is very vage by razpones · · Score: 1

    This "news article" had no info no links to who or what this person did, the hyperlink leads to a site that has nothing to do with the article. The blog just boasts that the kid (no age) broke a "filter" but not which or where, I imagine that it was in Australia, since the page is from there. All around very unprofessional and suspect. Any other links?

  76. Unsurprising... by SharkyTech · · Score: 1

    It's moments like these that make me proud to be an Australian High School student. *Tear* The current government is such a bunch of old fogeys that wouldn't know a thing about technology. They want to roll-out a Wi-Max system for broadband delivery across the country. Basically giving us a sub-standard system in a technological dead-end. Idiots. The fact that their strategy has once again proved inept suprises me not in the least. It was always going to be cracked by teenagers, but 30 minutes is just ridiculous. Would it have taken less time for a $40 million dollar filter? I doubt it, they're almost as stupid with their spending of money as my local council, and this council spent $10,000 dollars on a display of street "art" consisting of hundreds of pool noodles. This guy is right, especially after this story, it's a matter of time before instructions are posted. Hopefully the government will be embarrassed enough to lift their game, if not, perhaps the display of stupidity, yet another in a long line of stupid acts, will help the opposition party get into office. The company that made this is going to be severely embarrassed.

    --
    Give us this day our garlic bread and lead us not into vegetarianism but deliver us some pizza.
  77. 30 minutes? Well, in that case... by Captain+Sarcastic · · Score: 1

    ... I feel a bit safer. I don't know of many teens who aren't already technically inclined who are willing to spend 30 minutes straight trying to do anything computer-related. They usually get distracted pretty easily... oh, please excuse me, I have an IM from one of my friends. I wonder what they're up to...?

    --
    Strike while the irony is hot! -- The Freethinker
  78. Guilt through inheritance by Ctrl-Alt-Del · · Score: 1

    I thought all Europeans were supposed to be feeling guilt through inheritance for the empire days and all the slave trading that went with it? And that all men were supposed to be feeling guilt through inheritance for repressing women since time began? So are you saying we no longer have to have all these expressions of heart-on-our-sleeve sorrow and regret? It might actually be a relief not to have to listen to Tony Blair wringing his hands over something that happened >200 years ago.

    I'm afraid that you'll find that people do like to visit the sins of the fathers on the children; and part of the real message of Christianity is that since it is such a human thing to do, it took someone extra-human to forgive even the direst of sins and failings.

    --
    "Life is like a sewer - what you get out of it depends on what you put into it" - Tom Lehrer
  79. Where do the government(s)... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    get such bad programmers? This has always been a mystery to me. Why do such large companies produce such bad software? Another mystery I have never been able to solve? Are these the people that come out of the cracker jack box at night when we are all sleeping? I have always noticed that the government(s) always has the worse programmers, engineers and well basically dumbest (intellectually I mean) people. The so-called "experts". W...

  80. Hi by laura_glow · · Score: 0

    I told mi boyfriend to not post in my behalf on slashdot but he is a hacker, man, and did it anyway lol.

  81. Respect by asuffield · · Score: 1

    It involves teaching your kids correct principles when they are young and being a good parent


    Ah, and I suppose that your principles are the correct ones.

    They involve teaching a kid to respect themselves and others.


    Yes, you obviously respect others greatly. That'll be why you summarily dismiss their beliefs as being wrong.

    Respecting others means accepting that many people enjoy both creating and watching porn, and that no particular harm comes to any of them in the process. It means learning to understand these people, how they think, and why they believe what they do. If you do not understand, you cannot respect.

    Respecting others also means accepting that your opinions and beliefs are no more valid than theirs. If you think that your beliefs are somehow better than another person's, then you do not respect that person.
    1. Re:Respect by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Respecting others also means accepting that your opinions and beliefs are no more valid than theirs. If you think that your beliefs are somehow better than another person's, then you do not respect that person.

      So why are you contesting the grandparent posters's belief that his beliefs are more valid than other people's, you disrespectful clod ?-)

      No, respecting people means - amongst other things - accepting that their beliefs may be different than yours. However, simply because I respect someone doesn't mean that I must consider whatever ridiculous crap they happen to believe in to be valid or correct, it simply means that I shouldn't treat it or them with condescension or ridicule; and yes, pretending that ridiculous crap is valid is condescending - but so are arguments from ridicule.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    2. Re:Respect by asuffield · · Score: 1

      However, simply because I respect someone doesn't mean that I must consider whatever ridiculous crap they happen to believe in to be valid or correct


      Note the subtle distinction between considering the ridiculous crap that they believe in to be correct, and considering the ridiculous crap that you believe in to be more correct than theirs.

      I do not claim that you have to accept their crap in order to respect someone, merely that you cannot respect them if you believe that your crap is somehow better. The important thing to understand is that no belief is any more valid than any other, and that by definition beliefs cannot be correct - if they were correct, they would be facts, not beliefs.
  82. Parents are obviously ineffectual. by cavebison · · Score: 1

    I mean look at how many parents these posts have. Has it helped??

  83. Not for teens anyway by cavebison · · Score: 1

    Just thought - the filter is probably not meant to thwart anyone over the age of like 13 anyway.. perhaps it's just for fairly young kids playing on computers? Seems a lot of money just for that tho.

  84. Teen? by Johannes+Laire · · Score: 1

    They say that the student was 10 years old AND a teen. I thought teenagers are in the 13-19 range. Geez, it makes me mad how inaccurate everybody is these days.

    1. Re:Teen? by KevReedUK · · Score: 1

      It said he was in Year 10, NOT 10 years old! IIRC, Australia, much like the UK, doesn't refer to the various levels of it's schooling as "grades". Year 10 is roughly equivalent to 10th Grade.

      There are those who joke about the way americans call the various levels "grades" as opposed to "years"... the logic the jokes follow is that it's to try to stop kids getting confused / disheartened being in Year 5 after 8 or 9 years of schooling cos they keep getting held back. I think the implication of the joke is that american kids get held back more than british kids, but have never seen any evidence to support it. Having said that, there are a damn sight more american kids than british, so statistical probability implies more would be held back in raw numbers, even if not proportionally.

      --
      Just my $0.03 (At current exchange rates, my £0.02 is worth more than your $0.02)
  85. Title wrong by harris+s+newman · · Score: 1

    I believe that teens technically start at thirteen, not ten.

  86. Limited user account by Trentus · · Score: 1

    What if the kids are using a limited user account? Does the hack require you to have admin privileges or not?

  87. You're wrong by RPoet · · Score: 1

    He's in year 10 at school, which doesn't mean he's 10 years old.

    --
    "Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
  88. Nietzsche was wrong! by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

    As Nietzsche says, Christianity makes the whole of life repulsive.
    Christianity doesn't do that at all. It replaces your pleasure with a love for God.

    Me personally, I don't need God to get high, I get high off life.
    --
    You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  89. You prefer it when your men don't come? by FatSean · · Score: 1

    That sounds even viler. Ouch.

    --
    Blar.
  90. Can I have my money back ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are approx. 20 million people in Australia. I'm one of them.
    At $84 million (probably the initial cost, not the true cost) that represents about $4 per person
    to provide a shoddy filter that won't work.

    How about, instead, giving me my $4 back, and $4 each for my parter and kids, and I'll take over
    the role of parenting my children and supervising their internet access... sound fair ??

  91. This gives a whole new meaning to the expression: by rolando2424 · · Score: 1

    Hackers on Testosterone.

    --
    Okay seriously I've just run out of pointless things to say.
  92. Where is this hack? by harlequinn · · Score: 1

    I want to see the vaporhack. Unless he can show me it, I can't bring myself to believe that he has achieved it. I might as well say, "I cracked 128bit RSA encryption last night, in three clicks". My point being, unsubstantiated claims should not be taken that seriously. Anyone else interested in seeing this vaporhack?