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Wii Outsells 360, PS3 Worldwide
Wowzer writes "Despite confusing consoles produced, shipped or sold reports, the Nintendo Wii is now the best-selling system worldwide. Its sales exceed that of the Xbox 360 despite Microsoft's console having a year-long head start. And it's way ahead of the PS3. From the article: 'Sales figures from each console's launch date through the end of July (and the end of August in Japan) were added up, with the Wii just barely edging out the 360: 9 million for the Wii, 8.9 million for the 360, and 3.7 million for the PlayStation 3.'"
Is anyone actually surprised here?
"Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!"
I wouldn't call 1% just barly edging out, especially with 1 less sales. If only they released some more games now. Wheres Earthbound on vc but atleast they have Breath of Fire now.
On the one hand, it's just a continuation of a year-long trend of Wii kicking the other consoles' butts hard. They're still hard to find because they disappear off the shelves as soon as they get put there. Anyway, this was all predicted a while ago and so isn't a surprise in that sense.
On the other hand, I find it QUITE surprising that the Wii can so handily outsell the 360 when its game library is, all things considered, horribly outmatched. This is a very strong example of the fact that games do NOT sell the system, as many gamers like to think. Advertisements and price tag do a LOT more than the shelves of dvd-size plastic boxes with the console's logo on them, it seems.
I like basketball!!1!
I got myself a Wii. Just need a proper LAN multiplayer FPS and a Summer Smash Brothers, and maybe even a hardcore Mario kart.
I've actually spent hours playing Super Mario Brothers on the Virtual Console
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
...I know this term is sloshed around alot around here, but I wonder if Nintendo has shills trolling the /. boards? It seems to me most of the ones around here take the form of either Microsoft or Sony...yet you never really see any that sound like they are coming from Nintendo...curious, that.
Living With a Nerd
Who saw this coming? Be honest!
One thing that has shocked me about the Wii is how it can still be perpetually out of stock 10 months after being released. At this point Nintendo doesn't have any excuse, they need to ramp production up and they need to do it 6 months ago. I have a co-worker who is looking to get one and he's actually being told to stand in line outside of the store on shipment day still, and this was after calling just about every retailer in the area looking for one. Even weirder is when you look online and all of the available consoles are marked up over the retail price. That is crazy for a console that has been out on the market for as long as the Wii has.
I read the internet for the articles.
Microsoft announced they hit 10 million worldwide last December and here it is nine months later and the 360 is just above 10 million worldwide. Talk about hitting a brick wall.
The first Xbox hit 24 million after four years before Microsoft stopped making the system. The 360 is closing in on two years on the market and it hasn't hit half the worldwide installed base of the first Xbox.
That means that the 360 is doing significantly worse than the first Xbox. And when you add in the 1.1 billion in defect charges this year the lifetime Xbox losses are in the 7 billion dollar range. 4-5 billion or so for the first Xbox, 1-2 billion over the past two years of the 360, and now the latest 1.1 billion on top of all of that. With Microsoft making so many moves in the Windows gaming market it seems like Microsoft is realizing that their efforts to burn money to buy marketshare have failed in the console market and are working on an exit strategy.
....never! The fact is, I thought that the Wii was going to flop the moment it released. But because of its world wide spread of ease to pick up and go. It had succeeded to be one of the dominent systems.
actually wii advertisement spending was much lower compared to the other consoles from what i know.
and this IS a games sell a console situation.
for the first time in around, like, 8-10 years, a major brand (nintendo) came up with the now-forgotten idea of making FUN games instead of ones that has loaded sounds and graphics and repeats old concepts.
thats why wii is outselling all consoles.
Read radical news here
The funny thing is that Microsoft was using 'first to 10 million wins!' as their mantra, and reason for launching the 360 a year early.
Basically to quote the relevant answer on the bottom of page two.
Of course, now that Wii is facing product shortages in the markets, we are working on increasing production, and the effect is starting to show up little by little in this month already. As this month's production will be sold in the worldwide markets by the end of the next month, a small increase is expected at the retail outlets from next month. While we are on this subject, it looks like some people are misunderstanding that Nintendo is not incorporating state-of-the-art technologies into its products. It is not true. Just as an example, we are using the state-of-the-art technologies to realize the compact-sized Wii console with low power consumption. Making a significant volume of the high-tech hardware, and making an additional volume, is not an easy task at all. In fact, when we clear one bottleneck for a production increase, we will face another one. We are repeating this process as of today, and it is just premature for us to declare how many we will make from when. We would like to confirm this sometime later.
It sounds like they are a victim of their own success. The whole Q&A, while a few months old is an interesting read into the current state of Nintendo.
The rock, the vulture, and the chain
Specifically, the Xbox made its over all numbers largely without doing much in Japan. If you factored out Japan, I think that the Xbox still has a substantial lead.
In other words, I do not expect the Xbox 360 to become a non factor any time soon. It may be in a #2 position, but holding its current position without the benefit of Japan is a pretty strong feat. If they ever crack the Japanese market, they will likely give Nintendo some strong competition. Conversely, if the PS3 can build some decent momentum as its prices drop, it could overtake Microsoft overall with core gamers. If this does happen, it will happen very late in this console cycle (no earlier than say, 2010). And if it does do so, it will not overtake the 360 in the US.
I had been saying for some time, before the Wii's launch, that it probably had at worst, the #2 slot locked up in the console war, and a real threat to be #1.
I would say that right now, Nintendo is #1 over all, but only #2 with respect to hard core gamers. While a broad market strategy may be a good one, the core segment has proven consistently strong, and not one you want to cede to a rival.
If the Wii is ever going to get a grip on the core segment of the console market, they have to do it within the next year. Developers of titles that appeal to core gamers jumped on the Wii band wagon late, so the games that could push Wii into an untouchable #1 standing simply do not exist yet. On top of that, Nintendo did have a pretty bad game drought between February and July on the Wii. With the 3rd party developers coming on stream, that may change.
So to sum up:
- Right now, Wii has the #1 spot over all, but is only #2 with core gamers.
- I expect that the Xbox 360 will stay #1 with core gamers unless the Wii starts to get alot of games that will appeal to core gamers. Given the Wii's market positioning, I do not think this will happen.
- I expect the Xbox 360 to be guaranteed #2 unless Sony starts to build alot of momentum. I would be very surprised if this happens.
END COMMUNICATION
Outside of existing diehard US Xbox fans who the hell would be dumb enough to waste money on a 360?
> 400 dollars on the base system + 200-250 dollars of online charges over the life of the console.
> Most defective hardware ever for a console by an order of magnitude
> Halfassed backwards compatibility
> Crappy library of games
> Crappy graphics
If you are poor and have a crappy TV the Wii seems like a decent system until you can afford a real 1080p TV and pick up a PS3.
The problem with the Wii is if you don't have friends around all the time the system ends up just sitting there unused for most people. You look and feel like an idiot sitting there alone waving your arms around.
Same thing we have been hearing for months, and already knew, the Wii is kicking butt, Sony is struggling to keep afloat.
While its not selling as well the other two consoles, though, I should like to point out that 4 million consoles in under a year is nothing to sneeze at.
These conversations are pointless, you have 300 posters, each with their "unique" stats about how their favourite console is best, then the stats about which is selling best, which range wildly from microsoft selling 10 million by now, mircosoft selling 10million before last january, and apparently the wii has sold 2gazillion units whilst no one has actually see a missing space in the line of PS3s on the shelves. Okay, so you get a general over view, but everyone's talking crap and no one knows anything for sure. It does seem strange the same people who wouldn't consider just spouting statistics with no idea whether they are right, suddenly have no problem doing it with consoles.
Bye Bye Karma.
On the other hand, I find it QUITE surprising that the Wii can so handily outsell the 360
The summary says it's 8.9 million xboxes to 9 million wiis, I don't see how that counts as "handily" outselling.
And if you'd went just by the comments you read on slashdot video game stories, you'd think the wii was outselling the xbox 360 a hundred to one.
I think the lesson of both the Wii and the DS is that for a lot of people, notably the non-gamers, FUN is what counts.
Technology, the PSP trashes the DS. The XBox360 makes the Wii look like a joke graphically and computationally.
But the new interfaces (touch screen, WiiMote) have lead to entirely new classes of games, and new ways of doing traditional games.
EG, after playing Metroid for a few hours, I can't see how anyone could go back to the classic FPS controls, especially on a console. On a DS, the touchscreen allows very rich UIs, which are not possible with just the D-pad and buttons.
That is the lesson from Nintendo: Fun Must Come First .
Test your net with Netalyzr
Its sales exceed that of the Xbox 360 despite Microsoft's console having a year-long head start.
I don't get it. This reads as "He runs faster, despite his competitor, Bob, has no legs."
Of course, if you released a year *earlier* your sales slow down as time goes, so it's not "despite", it's "partially because".
It'll be interesting to see how many units are sold total. If Wii leads here (versus sales/month), now I'll agree the "despite" mark.
I guess the saddest one in this situation is PS3. Released late, too expensive, no sales. But Sony knew this, and proceeded to kill PS3 anyway, so Blu Ray can live.
Everyone got what he wants, a big happy corporate family.
Anyone else notice the GameStop menus at the top apparently reflect the popularity of the system?
Nintendo Wii, DS, Xbox 360, PS3, PS2, PSP, PC is the current order.
Although there is a little room for interpretation. eg. I'm sure the DS outsells the Wii and I'm sure the same is true with PS2 versus PS3.
As soon as I saw the first version of the funky new controller on the (then) Revolution, I was fairly certain that Nintendo was going to come out on top of this round of the console wars.
What I didn't see was how well Microsoft was going to execute on the 360 and how badly Sony was going to drop the ball on the PS/3.
When parking at school I decided I would park in a different parking spot. Critics call this a shocking thriller of the century. They give this news two thumbs way up! One reviewer said "Looks like the famous kc2keo is breaking out of his mold!".
Mind you, I'm not looking every day and calling twenty stores. If I decided today I would get one, I'd probably have it in a week. I've stopped in at the local Best Buy maybe four times this year, the last time about a month back. Out of curiosity, I check their wii supply. (fuck, I still hate that name.) They're always sold out. They're getting shipments in more frequently but they just don't stick around on the shelves. Frankly, this amazes me. I felt for sure that the wii would become more common in January, February for sure. It never would have occurred to me that you could walk into a game-related store by the end of summer and not simply count on it being in stock.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Using the proposed units sold from the article I arrived at these totals (base-line console, no bundles):
360: $3,155,000,000 (if all Pro) | $2,492,000,000 (if all Core) Note: True number is somewhere in between.
PS3: $1,850,000,000 (if all sold at $500, the cheapest offered) Note: Doing better then I expected in all honesty.
Wii: $2,250,000,000 Note: Shear units is their advantage and possibly their weakness.
Results: From a pure hardware stand-point it appears that the 360 is ahead by a few hundred million $$s, it's gonna be close if the Wii continues to sellout. But don't forget the repair costs of the 360's Red Ring of Death; unfortunately I could not find an accurate number for 360s repaired at this point so I'm guessing the margin is not that big or they are neck and neck if the worse case is assumed for 360s. Sony even in it's trailing, is only $400,000,000 (800,000 consoles) behind the Wii. Which is far closer then I would have thought. However, if it's true that Sony significantly subsidizes the PS3, then they are probably not as close, I could not find the numbers to determine the offset.
Now the real decider is gonna be games sold. The PS3 and Xbox similarly price their games, they have a comparable user base, so it's gonna be a more even head to head match with them, hardware sold may give enough numbers to gauge their results. Wii games on the other hand are $10 cheaper, which means to equal PS3/360 revenue on a game being sold they need to have 6 to every 5 PS3/360 sales. So to make it easy (and over-simplify) the game revenue lets assume there is a title for each console that every single person with a console buys, this results in:
360 game at $60: $534,000,000 Note: Obvious leader.
Wii game at $50: $450,000,000 Note: To Catch up to 360 they need 1,680,000 more consoles.
PS3 game at $60: $222,000,000 Note: And yea, no surprises here.
Conclusion: At the moment I believe the 360 is winning in terms of total revenue generated from hardware and software sales, though the Wii is closing in and might be able to surpass them from shear hardware sales in the future (impressive in its own right). I personally do not think the Wii will be able to compete with software sales. It will come down to the buying habits of the individual console owners. Will the casual Wii market buy enough games to beat out the hardcore 360/PS3 crowd that buys games almost weekly at slightly higher price? I don't know and I don't think it can be accurately guessed at this point, only time will tell.
"Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!"
WiiSports "only" a pack-in? WiiSports is a "System-Seller" . It shouldn't be discounted, simply because it doesn't fit with the hard-core audience's definition of an "epic game".
People are buying the Wii specifically to play WiiSports in the same way they do for Final Fantasy or Halo or Mario.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The 360 is already #1 with hardcore gamers. I agree with this statement, but see it as a very big strike against the 360s future success.
The Wii already owns the market of people who are not hardcore gamers, people who spend 300-400 a year on systems and games. People that will never ever own a 360 or a Ps3.
The "hardcore" people have a better chance of buying a Wii later than the Casual gamer has of buying a 360/PS3 later.
To me it is not a market where you choose 1 of the 3. It is a market where you either have a Wii or you have a 360 and a Wii or a PS3 and a Wii.
By going after the casual market first, they have built a foundation that the other 2 can't touch because they have stayed in the "gamer niche".
I'm not discrediting Wii Sports. I like it, I play it, and I think it's something truly unique and different. I hadn't been aware that people are buying Wiis just to play Wii Sports, but my post was not meant in any way to belittle the game.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
Honda outsells Ferrari worldwide!
Is it any wonder that a cheaper item with a wider target audience would outsell a more expensive item with features aimed towards more hardcore members?
You fail to take into account that Sony and Microsoft take a loss on each console sold, whereas Nintendo actually makes a profit on them.
You forgot that both MS and sony loose money with each console they sell.
On the other hand Nintendo makes a profit each time they sell a unit
Nintendo is making a profit on each console and microsoft is losing how much?? I think the comparison to high margin luxury goods is a bit off.
Wouldn't you have to subtract the loss per console? or is the 360 selling at a profit now?
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
No worries. Sorry to come off harsh. It wasn't meant as a snipe on you, just an observation that people discount the game. WiiSports is selling systems (to people who otherwise wouldn't buy one) but it gets no respect since the hard core snub it.
Fun Facts: Pokemon outsells Grand Theft Auto (consistently) and Nintendogs (all versions combined) sold better than Halo 2 (and nearly as much as Halo 1 & 2 combined).
It's still selling faster than any console on the market...
These amounts are total. The Wii also leads in sales/month. Thus, the correct term is, in fact, despite.
I was a true believer at first, but now I'm pretty dissapointed with the Wii. I think in part because of all the hype it fails to live up to.
Honda Accord outsells Chevrolet Corvette. Gasp? These are completely different markets. Mommies & their young children, one market. Teens and young adults, one market. The difference in power is also conspicuous, since one of these systems is actually a Gamecube in disguise. But hey. It makes a good news blurb.
Actually I did account for it with PS3s, I just did not know the numbers, and recently I heard the 360s did not sell at a loss, however that may be a recent development. So, to alleviate concern using the links you provided the hardware numbers change too:
360: $2,042,500,000 (if all Pro) | $1,379,500,000 (if all Core)
Note: If it's true 360s no longer sell at a loss, this number is higher, as before true value is probably in between. This also does not include recent elite sales either, which may farther skew the numbers either up or down. Plus repair costs, which once more we do not have numbers for.
PS3: $714,655,000 (if all sold at $500, the cheapest offered)
Note: And Sony drops back, at more then a 50% loss per unit. Guess they are banking on that 80GB and games to pull them out of the hole. Which is still a possibility even at their current consoles out there. At least they aren't going bankrupt.
Wii: $2,250,000,000 Note: No change.
How interesting, the lost revenue due to subsidizing the hardware is:
360: $1,112,500,000
PS3: $1,135,345,000
This has no real bearing since 360 has sold practically 3:1 with PS3, I just find it amusing at his point.
New Conclusion: 360 is still winning, but not by a lot. It'll be neck and neck for a bit. I'll give Wii the likelihood of pulling ahead in the immediate future, don't know if they can keep it though in the long run, gonna probably come down to games.
"Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!"
Nintendo is doing a great job of proving that appealing to a broader audience is a good way to go. But the fact remains that many of the games that core gamers enjoy simply do not appeal to a broader audience. And the core audience is not insignificant.
Games like God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Assassins Creed, Zelda, Metroid Prime, Gears of War, Dead Rising, Battlefield 1942, Counterstrike, Grand Theft Auto, Fable, System Shock 2, Ninja Gaiden, Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest are all great games. I want to see more games of that sort continue to come out. And I would love to play them on my Wii. But I really do not think those types of games will come out on the Wii any time soon. At least, now with the Wii as the primary platform.
Manhunt 2, ratings controversy aside, apparantly makes use of the motion controls quite impressively. Swing the remote, and you get to smash someones head in. But outside of that game, I have not heard much coming out for the Wii that appeals to my particular tastes of a gamer.
At the moment, I do own a Wii. But I have not played very much on it lately. That will change when I get my hands on a copy of Metroid Prime. Being able to play Wii games with non gamer friends is nice. But quite frankly, I also want some good single player games with some real endurance to them. Most casual geared games do not do that.
The Core Audience sustained this industry for a long time. It may be niche, but it is a lucrative one, and one worth trying to hold on to.
END COMMUNICATION
The PS3 is so much faster than the other consoles that I only need 3.7 million of them to do more work than all the XBox 360 and Wiis combined, so there!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Supposedly it is now selling at a profit, but since a commenter kindly supplied me with updated numbers from when they originally came out I have redone the hardware math. It can be seen off the first comment above. However, there is also that repair cost for dead 360s, unfortunately we have no numbers for it at the moment, so use your imagination.
"Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!"
This argument is incredibly flawed. You're assuming every console is or has been sold at a profit, when Microsoft and Sony have publicly admitted to losing revenue on console sales at various points.
You need to account for the increased R&D and manufacturing costs the Xbox 360 and PS3 face and the fact that Nintendo sells their consoles at a profit, despite their lower price point.
I did, thats who. I said this before, but about the Linux games scene. 'Gaming' is a niche market that appeals to only to about 10% of the people out there when you only account for the major titles like GTA, Gears, Halo, Quake, etc. The other 90% are content with playing the 'popular' games. These games are simple don't go for next-gen anything, but they are fun. Games like tetris, golf, etc. If you make those games fun again, then you're catering to the 90% while the other two consoles are catering to the 10%. Why does this pertain to Linux, it shows that appealing to hardcore gamers isn't important, appealing to the 90% is.
Taken care of if you read the reply to the first commenter. And also, you will notice their are some assumptions because we have no hard numbers, sorry but thats the best I can do with whats available. As for R&D costs, thats one more thing we don't have any hard numbers for.
"Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!"
Of 360, PS3, and WII:
Guess which system appeals to me?
Guess which system I own?
I can knock out a fun session of Excite Truck, Cooking Mama, or Mario Strikers Charged in a few minutes. I can get my ass kicked randomly online, for free, and without having to listen to my opponent's trash talk. I can hand out four remotes and have a SOCIAL gaming experience with a bunch of friends.
Sure, there are a few games on the other systems I'd like to play, and when the prices come out of orbit I'll probably buy them too. For the moment, I'll save that money for the next 10 WII titles that are released.
Nintendo gets it. The other guys don't.
I don't own a PS3 (I do own a Wii), but although it is in 3rd place the sales for it are still substantial. This is true for the PSP as well. It makes me wonder how this generation will play out for Sony. Will they see eventual increases? Or is this their Sega Saturn?
What the hell is your point? I didn't say a damn thing about Mario 3 in my post.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
Three nit-picks:
1) You break out the 360 into two different categories to generate a range of possible revenues, but assume "worst case" for the PS3. Just a little bias here.
2) You're just talking revenue. Profit is going to put the Wii way in the lead. Both the 360 and the PS3 are subsidized and are selling at a loss. Each Wii is sold at a profit.
3) In terms of software sales, you shouldn't write off the Wii so easily. Many developers ignored the Wii at first and are now rushing to publish titles. Granted, many of the first wave titles are ports, but more and more developers are getting on board. There should be some higher quality Wii-targeted titles coming out soon.
"But the fact remains that many of the games that core gamers enjoy simply do not appeal to a broader audience. And the core audience is not insignificant."
You keep telling yourself that, if it helps you to sleep better at night. But the facts don't bear it out.
Exercise: Take your favorite "core gamer" title on the PlayStation 2 -- God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Grand Theft Auto, whatever -- and count how many copies of a single title in the franchise were sold (no fair lumping all releases of GTA together, for instance).
Now divide that number by the number of PS2s that were sold worldwide -- 117.8 million, according to Wikipedia.
THAT is how (ir)relevant the "core" gamer market is.
--R.J.
Electric-Escape.net
... At least in my neck of the woods, nobody has Wii in stock, unless you want to buy some f-ckin $400 bundle..
Yogi Berra would be bemused..
You are assuming that Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo are getting all of the retail for the numbers you posted. While you cannot be sure what the retail markup is, you could at least estimate it.
That type of thinking worked out great for SNK... oh wait
--- Do you believe in the day?
I think you're still missing the concept of selling at a loss. Lets take the PS3 as an example.
Sony has sold 3.7 million units (according to the main article). Sticking with the assumption that they were all $499 units, that would be a total of $1.85 billion in gross revenues. However, according to the article from the poster above, Sony sold the $499 console at a loss of $306.85. That means it cost Sony $805.85 to make the $499 PS3, and that they actually lose $306.85 on every sale. So while they brought in about $1.85 in gross revenues, they actually lost about $1.14 billion on the sales. Of course, some were actually $599 versions (with lower losses) and I'd bet Sony has reduced the manufacturing costs at least a little since launch, so the $1.14 billion loss a worst case scenerio. Microsoft is probably still in a hole as well, although they're supposedly making money on new consoles now. Nintendo has been making a profit on console sales since launch though.
Also, counting the full price of games as net revenue is similarly misleading. Sony, MS, and Nintendo don't see the full price as profit. Instead, they get a fee per game sold (I imagine it's a set ammount, but I don't know the exact numbers). The designers, publishers, distributors, retailers take the rest. Games aren't free to make, after all.
Or you could give up on the theorising and just read their financial statements. Nintendo's are here:
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/annual_report.jsp
Attach rate for the Wii is about 4.5 games/console at the moment.
Who cares which sells better? Outside of people who are actively in the industry, I don't see why it should matter to ANYONE how well a console is selling. Find a friend who owns one, play it a bit, and if you like it enough then buy one. Look at the games catalogue and see which one has the most games that appeal to you. I don't see why it matters which sells how many. The best console is the one that is the most fun for YOU.
SQL programmer goes to a bar. Walks up to two tables and says 'Excuse me, may I join you?'.
Honda outsells Ferrari worldwide!
LOL. Gotta love the irony of MS fanboys using Mac fanboy arguments...
Damion Schubert covered this back in August.
Note that the Wii is only winning over the 360 because of Japan... if you look only at North America, the 360 has sold about as much as the Wii and PS3 combined.
It might have value IF you take into account that the PS3 and 360 are being sold at a loss. You can add in the RRoD costs for MS and the development costs for the 360/PS3 games vs Wii games / ports. Sure the 360 might have a higher profit, but its margin is a LOT smaller than the Wii, which isn't sold at a loss. Seriously, the numbers are great, but if you're using them to see how much MS, Sony, or Nintendo have made off the units it is no longer an accurate model.
I've got all three systems, and although I tend to enjoy playing the 360 and PS3 more when I'm gaming alone, when friends come over it's all about the Wii. There are a disturbing number of games for PS3/360 that have left out local (couch based) multiplayer, choosing instead to focus on online gaming. Motorstorm comes to mind. I actually bought a second controller so that I could race against friends. I guess I should have checked beforehand, but who would have thought that they'd put out a racing game (one that was meant to sell the system, no less) where you can't race against the person sitting next to you! Crackdown for the 360 was another one where they only support 2 players online. Online gaming is fun (if you can stand the great unwashed that is Xbox Live), but none of my friends have any of the next-gen systems, and they're not planning on getting them until they get a lot cheaper. So when they come over and want to play a game, chances are we're playing the Wii.
The Wii is seriously overrated. Between myself and my roommate, we own all 3 next-gen systems, and I can tell you it's the 360 that gets the most playtime.
Why? Because it has the best games. The 360 has a string of first-rate titles coming out (recently BioShock, before that Gears of War, Guitar Hero, and a hell of a lot more).
That's not to say that there aren't fun games on the Wii. The Wii is what we play at parties, and it's what we play when we want to sit down for 10 minutes and play a quick game. But we can't play Zelda and Wii Sports forever, and a lot of the other titles, while solid, just haven't been very good.
And then there's XBLA. Yeah, the Wii kind of has this too with the Virtual Console, but if I'm going to drop $10 on a game, I want it to be something new. Games like Hexic 2, Lumines, Catan, and a lot more.
That math makes no sense to me. If you assume that each 360 loses Microsoft something like $100 each, each PS3 loses Sony something like $150 each, and each Wii makes Nintendo something like $70 each, you get:
Microsoft: 890m loss
Sony: 550m loss
Nintendo: 630m profit
Factoring games, then, with a 60/60/50 price structure:
Microsoft: needs to sell 30.4m games to catch up to Nintendo at selling zero games
Sony: needs to sell 23.6m games to catch up to Nintendo at selling zero games
Nintendo: 3.6m copies of Zelda, alone, means they are $144m ahead; throw in Metroid, Super Paper Mario, WarioWare, Mario Party 8, etc, and Nintendo has something like 10m games sold, trivially.
Which means the numbers for each console are actually:
Microsoft: needs to sell 40m games to catch up to Nintendo
Sony: needs to sell 33m games to catch up to Nintendo
Nintendo: Clear winner and currently the only profitable game company
GPL Deconstructed
The cable that comes with the Wii is 480i...The digital "HDTV" cable is a separate purchase, which I think is a mistake. The difference is image quality is immediately obvious.
Your troll-fu is incredibly strong, young one.
On page B4 of today's print edition of the Wall Street Journal, in an article entitled "Microsoft Expands Xbox 360 Line in Japan", they also pointed out that the Wii has sold 3,454,167 units since Dec. 2006, the PS3 has sold 1,160,614 units since Nov. 2006, and the xBox 360 has sold 444,352 units since Dec. 2005.
Mind you, those are figures for Japan.
Of course, even Blue Dragon (360) has sold fewer than 200,000 copies in Japan since launch in December.
It's not just Wii worldwide, it's a landslide.
I don't think Lost Odyssey is going to turn that around.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
In other news, the Ford Focus out sells the McClaren F1 and Ferrari 911.
Actually, the 360 has been making a profit per console since early this year.
Nintendo is winning the console wars for a simple reason: It's the only one that has grasped what consoles should be about; fun pick up and play games, that you can have a quick blast on with friends next to you. Graphics don't matter, what matters is fun and accessibility.
Consoles were always about recreating the 'penny arcade' experience in your own home, the 360/PS3 in contrast have more in common with PC gaming (albeit streamlined). The games follow suit - Halo/GoW/Oblivion/etc just aren't the pick up and play titles you can have a short blast on during a break, or at a party.
I agree, and on several occasions have mentioned that the numbers are not exact because we do not have the information available to actually do a proper mathematical analysis. And yes I did not really think about the game being split, valid point, I overlooked it. But as we seem to agree that they do sell consoles at a loss, therefore they must make their money somewhere. That only leaves games, so while the exact amount is split, my half-assed math should at least give you an idea of the ratio since Sony/MS/Nintendo probably get a standard percentage.
And if you wanna be technical about it, selling a console at a loss implies no profit, which means that Microsoft and Sony are so far behind Nintendo it's not really that funny. I was basing calculations off of the money we the consumer handed them, so even at a loss we have handed MS more money then Nintendo. Besides, I am pretty sure they account for the fact they are losing money, they must be making it up somewhere else.
For those that still don't get why I didn't mark MS and Sony in the negative, I made the assumption that as a company they made up the difference elsewhere, therefore the console war itself comes down to the amount of money we turned over to them for their products, not what it cost them to produce it. Hell, MS could spend it's whole budget and give away consoles and they could "win the war". But thats not a very good overall business model.
"Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!"
#1 Valid point, I was and am biased against the PS3 (ironically its also the only one I own) I semi-assumed no one would buy the higher price version cause, well thats just dumb. Sooo there number is probably even lower then my estimation.
#2 I counted revenue and not profit because I think it would be unfair to Nintendo to do otherwise. You must remember that Sony and MS can sell at a loss because they are giant corporations that can make up the loss in other places, hence why I did not count them in the negatives. I based it off of the money we the consumer give to the companies. I think this is relevant, but it's up to the reader I guess. Either way it's a valid point that I should have clarified.
#3 Mostly valid point, while that doesn't negate my rough math, it could very well play into what I said about the Wii's game market being the big decider. At the moment I think it's gonna be iffy, if they pull out some heavy hitters aside from the ones we already know are coming, they may rocket past everyone. I don't know, but good point.
Wow, a well thought out reply that wasn't insulting, thanks. Btw I did redo the numbers with the loss calculated on the first reply, if you missed it. They skew more to the Wii, and if does not have the lead at the moment it probably will shortly.
"Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!"
Since you were civil and raise good points, I'll clarify what I did. You are correct about the loss, and I did redo the math when I replied to the first commenter who pointed it out and supplied some numbers. They are still slightly in favor of the 360 but Wii will probably catch up pretty soon. As for the profit, I calculated revenue we the consumer hand the companies. My reasoning being that since MS and Sony are giant corporations and Nintendo is really only a gaming company, MS and Sony can make up their losses elsewhere in their company, therefore the "war" comes down to the revenue we send them. At least thats my reasoning and it makes sense to me, take what you will from it.
"Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!"
Yes, they make them on games. Developers pay a fee per disc to release on the system.
It's not a percentage. It's usually a flat, per-disc fee. That was why the original Playstation was so much more popular with developers than the N64 despite its hugely inferior hardware: the per disc fee was something like $5 compared to $10 or more for cart fees for the N64. That meant even bad games with low sales numbers could turn a profit.
I don't know it offhand, but I'd probably bet the per-disc fee is somewhere around the $6-$8 range right now for the Xbox 360/PS3, and probably a couple bucks cheaper for the Wii.
No one's implying anything: that's an absolute fact. Microsoft's games division and Sony's game division have been posting losses in the Billions for quite some time. Last year Sony Games racked up a loss of $1.969 Billion, Microsoft Games Division's fiscal year end was a loss of $1.892 Billion (though to be fair, the Zune and a couple other "devices" are in the same division) and Nintendo's end of year profits were $1.915 Billion (they don't have a seperate game division, games are all they do.
If you stood on a corner and offered to give everyone who paid you $50 a $100 bill, you'd have lots of consumers giving you money, but that wouldn't help you any financially. If someone else down the block was getting people to give them $100 bills in exchange for hundreds, even if they only got ONE PERSON to do this they'd be better off than you at the end of the day.
This is essentially how Sony/Microsoft's business model works. They let the consumers hurt them by buying the loss-leader (the console) and hope to make back the money over the life of the product with licensing fees for software. This is doubly true for Sony as they're using the PS3 to push their Blu-ray format.
Their shareholders were probably thinking the same thing a year or so ago.
Being the number one seller doesn't help you if you go bankrupt doing it.
That was the original XBox business model. They believed they could buy the market. The 360's business model is just a wee bit less suicidal, but pretty much still the same. Microsoft just wants to establish their brand in hopes of winning the market by their third generation system. I think they have a shot at it. I refused to buy an XBox but I recently dropped a good chunk on a brand new 360 Premium. It's a fine system and almost worth the money.
Sony however can kiss my ass if they think I'll pay over $300 for that glorified heat sink they're selling.
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
PS3 (HDMI, Wireless, BluRay, 60 gig) $600 360 E1337 (For HDMI) $479 Wireless adaptwhore. $100 MinorlyImprovedDVD player. $199 120gig Hardon drive. $179 $957 But at least you get twice the harddrive space! Word of mouth overrides logic once again.
Slashdot: Where opinions are just opinions until you have mod points.
I don't recall the link, but it was on Nintendo's web site. I ogt teh gist that it seemed to be from the summer of 2006. It was a press conference type of report, and in one portion the execs basically stated that do not intend to sell the Wii at a loss. That type of stragey is not their philosophy. They did not rule out that they might just only break even. But even that was not their goal.
All in all the whole report was an interesting read. I recommend it. Touches on the success of the DS as well as the failure of the Micro.
My kingdom for mod points. (One thing that I can't buy with my doubled-and-still-going Nintendo stock ;) )
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
What's most astonishing is how well the NES/SNES era games have held up compared to the PS1 games. I own both a Wii and a PS3, and I've bought a ton of VC games on the Wii, and quite a few PS1 games on the PSN Store. Frankly, most PS1 games are unplayable by today's standards. The only one I play regularly is Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, and guess what: That game is 2D.
Other PS1 games I've bought - which I used to love - I wasn't able to endure for more than a few minutes. Cool Boarders used to be one of my favorite PS1 games. I have no idea what I was thinking back then: I think it must be one of the worst games I've played in my entire life. Even true PS1 classics like Wipeout just don't hold up anymore.
More interestingly, the N64 games seem to be faring somewhat better. The Zelda games, Starfox or Mario Kart are still a lot of fun to play... Comparing F-Zero 64 to Wipeout is an eye-opening experience. I think Sony must have put us under some kind of spell back then. Otherwise, I have no explanation for why we used to think these games were competing on the same level.
Actually, Nintendo is targetting a very large group of people will their games, not only children. See stuff like Wii Fitness. That's not something for children. Bowling? Children aren't generally into bowling.
The company targetting the narrowest audience is Microsoft: They're basically targetting the 12-17 hardcore (online FPS/car racer) market. Their attempts to break out of this market with stuff like Viva Piñata has failed so far.
Sony is in a better position to challenge Nintendo. Sony hat least has franchises like Singstar, which do target a wider market.
If there is one company that can make fun electronic games, it's Nintendo. They are in the business for longer than 30 years. Microsoft is a newbie, Sony is a latecomer when compared to Nintendo.
Kids know and trust the name 'Nintendo', thanks to those little handheld games that you can take to school, on the bus, in bed, in the bathroom etc. And those kids grew up, remember their youth, and they buy Nintendo for their kids.
I, as a parent, don't even look at monster ugly consoles like the 360 or PS3. Wii seems so nice, so playful...Wii promises a playland, an amusement park, something the other consoles do not.
Nintendo is the best game company, by far. They know what they are doing.
Games do sell consoles. The Wii is selling because it has Wii Sports.
That's nice, but I'd rather play Mario Party 8 and Wii Sports than Oblivion. Most of the time, I don't play games alone, but when friends are over. So "a million times better" may be true for you, but sales seem to indicate that a lot of people feel differently.
I do own a PS3, and Warhawk is an awesome multiplayer title, but all in all, the Wii is the best console (as in: has the best selection of games - like "a million times better") if you play local multiplayer games.
GP is right. Look at the box of a Philips Videopac (Magnavox Odyssey in the US, I think). It shows a family having fun while playing games on a TV. Go a few years forward. What's on the box of the Turbografx? Graphics from a shooter. Between the SNES and the PS2, graphics have been the main selling point for consoles. Console X can push Y trillion triangles at Z FPS. Look at the ads for the consoles. Do they emphasize fun? No, they emphasize technology.
Now look at the ads for the Wii. It's just people having fun. We've come full circle: Technology isn't so important anymore. Fun is. Technology is the PS3 and 360's selling point. Fun is the Wii's selling point. That's why the Wii is selling better.
Oh, one other point about Prime 3: This is a totally different game from the first two titles, and obviously a totally different game from the 2D games. The first two Primes were adventure games. The third is much more of an FPS.
No. I do, however, think that Halo's main success reason is not that it's a fun game (and I don't deny this - it clearly is a fun game; in fact, I used to play its predecessors, the Marathon games, when I was in the target audience age group), but that it appeals to people who want to compete. It appeals to adolescent boys' urge to measure their strength against their peers. I think many people play games like Halo mainly to prove their skills.
I believe games like Halo are mainly played to improve the rank in the leaderboard, not do have fun. Otherwise, why would people care so much aber Gamerscores and Achievements and what not?
Penny Arcade thinks the site is a joke (here's the comic), and I tend to agree. While I've seen some truly idiotic crap from fans of a particular console manufacturer, this is beyond everything I've ever seen before. It can't be real. The writer is either bat-shit insane, or joking. Occam's razor suggests that explanation 2 is probably true :-)
Since at least November of 2006, the 360 has been selling for a profit. Try reading.
cue troll points in 3, 2,.... I am suprised that the wii is ahead of the 360 and i am totally convinced that it is a FAD. Don't get me wrong, i am a huge nintendo fan...i was so excited when the 'revolution' was annouced. i bought 100 shares of nintendo stock that day. i preached to friends and family that this was going to completely change the way that games are played and that in 5 years, all of the consoles would convert. a year later, boy was i wrong. the idea was there, the implementation was horrible. i wish that they had waited a couple of years, so they could but more powerful hardware in the machine and give devs more time to brainstorm, because the graphics are tired and the games are non-existant. These are game systems, and the fact is, the 360 has far more and far better games to play on it. My wii has been collecting dust since i beat Zelda. Sports was a great tech demo, but got tired pretty quick. Play was weak...thank god i got a controller with it... i was seriously considering selling it until it was announced that manhunt 2 would ship in october. i am really counting on just a few good games(fight night, table tennis, manhunt) to change my view, because at this point, i feel as though the $300 i spent on the wii was the biggest waste i've encountered in a while. i should have bought some more stock so i could have made some more money on the masses that are apparently still blindly buying into the hype. shit, even putting that $300 into a ps3 would have made more sense at this point. Uncharted is about to come out and that looks amazing. mark my words, wii will go the way of the gamecube this generation. in 2 years, only 5 year olds will be playing sponge bob, and qrandma will be playing shuffle board on it.
Did you set it to output in 480p in the settings? There is a difference (I have a plasma and a projector also) in the amount of clarity, crispness and fluidity in everything. You will get better looking textures, clearer text, more fluid animations and action, what you won't get however is any more Anti-aliasing. The game will still have "jaggies".
Also of note, The Wii component cables allow Progressive Scan on GameCube games. Just hold down the "B" button as they boot up, and it will prompt you if you want to use Progressive Scan.
(insert submitter's name) writes in to tell us that (insert URL) is reporting that the Nintendo Wii has sold (x) number of units, barely itching out past the XBox 360, which has sold (y) units. Both are still well outselling the poor Sony PS3 which has only sold (z).
Automated comments:
Score 3, Funny - And is anyone surprised by this
This must generate a thread of at least 10 posts
Sore 4, Interesting - If Sony would stop (insert profanity) their developers, maybe PS3 sales would be stronger.
This must generate a thread of at least 15 posts.
Score 2 - I just bought a PS3 because it was a cheap BluRay player.
HD Format Wars Automated news generator:
(insert submitters name) writes in to tell us that (insert URL) is reporting that (Company X) has decided to go with the (insert format name). Recent sales figures shows that BluRay is currently outselling HD-DVD (y:z)
Article approver will comment: "I am just waiting on (insert movie) to be released, that will get me to decide which format to go with..
Mandnatory comments must include:
Score 5, Interesting / Funny- The Porn industry has decided to go with HD-DVD
this must generate a thread of atleast 20 replies
Score 3 - I just hope BluRay wins out, not because of the format, but because I want the storage capacity.
Score 4, Informative - Neither format will win, both will quietly die, because there is not a significant enough improvement over DVD to justify a format war. The reason DVD won over VHS is because there was a huge technology leap. We are still on discs here, the next big leap will be with downloadable content, not HD-DVD
This must generate a thread of atleast 20 replies, some agreeing, some disagreeing, at least one funny comment with will spur a whole other conversation not remotely related to the story
The Wii is still hard to find outside of pricey bundles, but the shortage seems to be easing. You can check availability on this web site. Nobody has them today, but last week I picked up a console at list price from ToysRUs, and earlier this week Sears had it.
...and the Ford Focus outsold the Porsche 911, so what! I am so sick of these stories. The PS360 are in one division of the console war, and the Wii is in another class. Do you want to play Gears of War? Halo 3? Warhawk? or Cooking Mama and WarioWare: Pick Your Nose? Not judging, but stop directly comparing the Wii with anything else. It will never be hardcore gamers' first choice.
I think some of you have touched upon the success of the Wii and some are missing the mark. Let me give the reasons why we purchased a Wii.
/. I will put this in a slightly different view that I am sure we can all relate to in some sense. I see the analogy of Wii as one like Windows versus Linux. Windows has an interface that is easy for users to USE. Linux is much sturdier in most sense, but the learning curve is steeper. MS did the smart marketing and made an easy to use system that is "playing catch-up" on security and other "hardcore" features. Linux was for hardcore people and is playing catch-up on ease of use. Which is more popular?? Wii can play catch-up on graphics much easier (I would think) than Xbox and PS3 can play catch-up on playability for the masses. It seems to me no wonder why Wii is doing better at this point.
I purchased a Wii for our family in April. I have a 4 year old son that LOVES it. The games we have for it so far are: Wii Sports (default), Wii Play, TMNT for Wii, Transformers, Madden '08.
Let me list a few reasons why WE purchased the Wii:
1 - I saw it as a way for my kid to play games and NOT just sit on his butt all day doing so. So far this has proven fairly true. In the sports games he limits his own play by getting tired and wanting to turn it off by himself. Pretty good self control for a 4 year old if you ask me.
2 - It was cheaper than the others. Plain and simple. I didn't want to spend 400 - 600 dollars for a system for my kid to sit on but all day.
3 - I am NOT a hardcore gamer by any definition (except "owns a gaming console"). I enjoy gaming that I can sit down for 30 minutes, play and be done. Madden 08 is a good way of doing that, other than I get my ass kicked every time I go online...but I hope to get better...eventually.
4 - My freinds and family can come over and play without having to learn 250 different controller combinations to play a game well. So in short we can have fun with it with new people.
Since this is
Firstly, I've you've ever visited a site where people discuss games, you'll know how obsessed gamers are with Gamerscores and Achievements. In fact, the Achievements you can get are often one of the main topics of discussion when new games are announced, and a lot of people buy crappy games just to get the Achievements.
Secondly, I never claimed I knew.
Thirdly, I never said they did.
Finally party one, there is no logic. I thus fail to see how I am making "leaps of logic." As I said, it is my belief that a lot of people play Halo mainly for the competition. "Belief" implies that I have no solid evidence. It's just my experience from talking to people who play Halo. There's no logic involved. Just a gut feeling.
Finally part two, I never even mentioned Nintendo. Frankly, I think Nintendo could learn a lot from how Microsoft uses incentives like Achievements to sell games and create buzz - and if Metroid Prime 3 is an indication, they are taking a few pages from Microsoft's book. Metroid has a kind of local, small-scale achievements system, too.
So, all in all, I'm not quite sure why you're attacking me. I think you might have misread my post.
You don't have to hold B for Gamecube games on the Wii. They will automatically ask you if you want to go progressive or not. I geuss it's got something to do with the Wii's Gamecube mode, cause on a Gamecube with the component cable, you DID have to hold B. Something else funny to wrap your brain around...the Gamecube's component output was labeled "digital out"...and yet, component (YPbPr) is an analog signal. From what I heard, the Gamecube could actually not output component, it was a generic digital output, and the cable itself had to do the digital to analog/component conversion, thus why it was so expensive.
Also, anyone that can't tell the difference between composite and even 480i component (let alone 480p) needs glasses very badly. Also, composite is technically not 480i, it works different. You have to use component cables to get 480i.
RF -> composite = night and day difference
composite -> S-video = night and day difference
S-video -> component = night and day difference
480i (component) -> 480p (component) = difference, but not night and day...it's a subtle image quality/stability difference that I could understand someone that's not educated on the difference not quite picking up on (other than a generic "it looks better somehow")
I can't stand interlaced images myself, they give me a headache. Even with my old SNES and Sega Saturn, changing from composite to S-video on my 20" widescreen LCD HDTV made a HUGE difference. And that's on an old system, just going to S-video. Component looks way better than S-video too. The people that are saying component cables don't make a difference for Wii are either blind, have crap TV's, or are just stupid (ie, expecting it to make the GRAPHICS better rather than make the IMAGE QUALITY better). I'm assuming there's a huge group of "hardcore" videophiles that don't know the difference between better graphics and better image quality.
I did have the GameCube component cables and never actually questioned it when I got the Wii... And to think I've been Holding down B all this time like a Sucker...
Umm... it is. You have no further to the last generation. The PS2 dominated despite being the weakest of the 3 surviving (non-dreamcast) systems. The Gamecube despite being it's technical superior (in every category but disc capacity), AND cheaper still sold less. The X-box which was IN EVERY Way superior (except disc space, it was a tie) and sold at the same price sold less.
Actually, now that I think of it... If you don't buy a Game console for games... what the hell would you buy it for?
They could have kept making it like sonys ps2 and make it smaller, sell way more, sure it would compete with the 360 but at least you can get it
into the cheaper market and 3rd world nations. Companies can make their profits on xbox1 games while they take a risk on the 360.
Besides all those xbox1 people would eventually go to the 360, but no.... if you just kill the first gen, you piss a lot of people off like
game developers and gamers who just dont see any new games for it. It still had plenty of power , more than the ps2.
MS could have given the xbox1 the 360 style dashboard too. They already had a big base they could have kept making loads of software sales on.
Idiots, no one has done that before by killing one gen to bring the next gen.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
The difference in the pictures for Zelda and Excite Truck sets on this site are similar to the difference I saw on my TV.
The cables for the digital output of the Gamecube were ridiculously hard to find and expensive. And while few people have TVs capable of 1080p, the cables included with the Wii were composite. Going from composite to S-Video or component produces a noticeable improvement even on SDTVs! It wouldn't have been difficult to include a cable with a couple different video connectors.
You'll have to add Strikers Charged to that list, it's all kinds of fun. And... it also has online, without noticeable lag even!
Some reviews have said the mega strike is overpowered, but don't worry, it's not like those reviews are right or anything.
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"