World of Warcraft Patch 2.3 Coming Next Week

Blizzard has officially announced that World of Warcraft Patch 2.3 will be dropped onto live servers next Tuesday. It's a huge update to the behemoth of Massively Mutiplayer games, including elements like a new raid zone called Zul'Aman, significant class changes, new questing content in the Dustwallow Marsh zone, and an increase in leveling speeds between 20-60. The full patch notes are available on the official site. "Elsewhere Guild Banks let you keep track of and organize your stocks much more efficiently, the Auction House has been revamped so it is easier to use, and you will be able to pick up daily quests so you have something to keep you from falling asleep as you go back to the same dungeons or battlegrounds again and again. The old 40-man Alterac Valley battleground has been fiddled with, too, so it should now have extra added fun, and those of you around the mid-level mark should head to Dustwallow Marsh for new quests and speedy leveling."

Comments

Daily quests to keep me from falling asleep?

[lonesome_coder]

From TFS:

and you will be able to pick up daily quests so you have something to keep you from falling asleep as you go back to the same dungeons or battlegrounds again and again. I know there are a lot of WoW bashers, but I have to assume there are some WoW players here as well. I don't know about the rest of you, but doing dailies makes me want to rip my hair out... ...well, I guess that does keep me from falling asleep.

Re:Daily quests to keep me from falling asleep?

[UncHellMatt]

Oh yes indeedy, I still play. Have since about two weeks after the game went "retail". So far it's the first and only MMORPG I play (normally just an FPS) and I still enjoy it. Personally I don't bother with 90% of the daily quests or factions, simply because I only get time to play perhaps 2-3 nights each week and only for a few hours. When I am on, I much prefer to group with folks or level alts since what keeps me playing is the variety you get with each class. Sure, the same quests, often the same grinds, but what keeps me at it is that with each class and spec, you have to do many of those same quests quite differently. And in groups, you play a very different role, some easier and some more taxing.

Besides, I don't feel any burning desire for a big dragon to fly around on. I'm perfectly content to see my big Tauren Druid on Midnight :D

Re:Daily quests to keep me from falling asleep?

[orclevegam]

Ah, a fellow alt-a-holic. I get flak from my guild sometimes because I've got so many alts and while they hit 70 a long time ago I'm just now getting to level 68. Eh, who cares, I have more fun with all my different characters, and like you I can only play a few hours randomly throughout the week. That being said I do intend to faction grind at some point because I want the high faction crafting recipes. Also need to transfer my Tauren Druid at some point. I abandoned him because I got sick of playing on a PvP server, and was having problems leveling him past 63, because I'd get ganked about 2 min after I signed on (high population older server, lots and lots of bored level 70s) by a pack of rogues (inside cities even!). Happy to report my time spent on the PvE servers has been much more enjoyable.

Re:Daily quests to keep me from falling asleep?

[obeythefist]

The big reason I play WoW is because those dailies are there... and I never did one of them once. I could if I wanted to. Or I could PvP.

I just do what I want to do, level an alt, chat with the guildies, play the AH for cash, tradeskill. Wander around STV ganking. Explore.

WoW is successful because there are so many different activities you can do. If you don't like doing dailies, don't do them.

Re:Daily quests to keep me from falling asleep?

[geekoid]

Yes, it is why I may be quitting.

Dailies = Job. No thanks , I have a job.

Re:Daily quests to keep me from falling asleep?

[ggwood]

I looked into this briefly (on wowwiki). Are daily quests only for very high level players? Will there be new daily quests at the lower levels (under, say, 45)?

Re:Daily quests to keep me from falling asleep?

[WuphonsReach]

I looked into this briefly (on wowwiki). Are daily quests only for very high level players? Will there be new daily quests at the lower levels (under, say, 45)?

Below 45, you'll be hard-pressed to do all of the one time only quests before you level past them and they turn grey. Especially with the large XP boost that quests got.

(So the answer is... probably not, but I didn't play on the PTR.)

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[Jhyrryl]

And what does your ability to get that quip in as the first post say about your lifestyle?

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[MikeTheCannibal]

Seriously though, this is GREAT NEWS! Think about this for a minute- While we tinker away all day and night coding out the new big thing with SQL, integrating modules into programs, and screaming at your computer monitor because of incompetent customers.... These kids sit around playing WoW. They are our stepping stones! They are the ones we can use to move forward in life. They are our next generation of fast food servers ready to take our orders! This thrills me, it means more and more people are too sucked into a game than to become competition for my job and power. Let them rot away in front of a computer playing games..... It gives me an edge. Call me an asshole, but remember It takes drive to make it to the top.

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[Seakip18]

My question is how did he finish up his heroics today and still get time to read the article before the Tempest keep Raid in 20 minutes?

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh oh, sounds like WoW loser got their feelings hurt. Why don't you post how many hours/days/years you've wasted your miserable life away sitting at home in WoW so we can all laugh at you when we think back to what we've accomplished in the same time over the past few years?

Slashvertisement?

[bdjacobson]

Nothing special in 2.3...

Warriors getting buffed again (no, Mace nerf is not meaningful. Intercept buff is.) so Kalgan can rock his Season 3's.

You may see this as a troll post, but Blizzard has been clear with their actions they're not interested in class balance, only in buffing (making stronger) the classes that the dev's mainly play. For those uninformed, Kalgan is the head designer/game balancer, and his current favorite class is Warrior.

To all potential WoWers, don't bother picking it up; just wait out Warhammer or something. Players are leaving in droves over this: in all the brackets of Arena PvP (main form of PvP Blizzard tries to balance around) Warriors are overrepresented. For instance, of the top 10 2v2 teams, 8 of them have Warriors. Top 10 rated 5v5 teams, 7 or 8 [don't recall] have warriors. Contrast this with the class most whined about for being overpowered, Warlocks, which have a strong showing in the 2v2 bracket (indeed they're the only thing keeping Warriors in check, and they're getting a serious nerf vs. specifically Warriors in 2.3), but fairly weak showing in the 5v5 bracket (most important bracket) being made weaker and/or not buffed in patch 2.3 like all other classes are, and you'll see just how far away from the game Blizzard has fallen. They've got some serious balancing to do if they want to stay relevant.

The last numbers from Armory mining show only 4.5m CHARACTERS across all realms and regions (EU, US, etc). That means since Armory was implemented (last couple of months) only 4.5m characters have logged on. In reality the number of active accounts would be lower. But at any rate, 4.5m is a far cry from Blizzard's 9million trumpet they like to blow to keep Vivendi shareholders happy with the Blizzard purchase.

For those only interested in PvE, it's not looking to good on that front either. If Zul'Aman is similar to Kara, there won't be many guilds progressing past it either.

Blizzard needs to keep in mind the vocal minority is not the gold pot majority.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[syukton]

Do those mined numbers include Europe and Asia?

Re:Slashvertisement?

[Anonymous Coward]

Go play Vanguard, it needs people like you with no life. Oh and can I have your stuff if you leave?

Re:Slashvertisement?

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone is aware about Kalgon's pet class, and how WoW's broken classes are, with the excuse of rock-paper-scissors thrown to the masses, or "its fine... learn to play" as the other one. Just ask a hunter how well they are received endgame is a good example of this.

WoW is so-so, but I'd skip Warhammer from what I've seen, though I hold out hope for a non-abysmal experience. Even though, technically Blizz based their stuff from Games Workshop's IP, WAR looks pretty much like the same Alliance/Horde thing, except ALL capital cities are like Halaa (If you are playing the team with the less population, you know how annoying Halaa is, and you can picture one side losing all their capital cities, and any attempts to retake them will be met by PvP zergs from the opposite side.) Guess EA/Mythic wants to make money on server transfers when people get tired of having no auction house for their side, and no real hope of taking their cities back to get one.

Mythic did OK with DAoC's RvR, but I'm pretty sure their devs don't get the lopsidedness of factions on WoW in population. Blizzard took great steps to get around the population disparities, but I wonder if the devs at Mythic even have even thought that one side may have three to four times the people as the opposite faction, and can easily take over PvP objectives with sheer numbers.

If I were going for a PvE type of experience, I'd probably go Vanguard. It has been highly hammered out and became a lot more playable than the steaming pile of it was at launch. EQ2 has been pretty much revamped and its virtually a different MMO than it was at its launch, and offers quite a lot for a player starting out, with instances soloable, groupable, or raidable at almost any level range, although until RoK comes out next week, the 65-70 experience is pretty sluggish.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[Anonymous Coward]

No his numbers do not consider the European or Asian realms.

This guy is a joke.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[SydShamino]

Those numbers are from someone who clearly stated he's only mined about half the available armory data. And the armory only includes characters from North America and Europe, not Asia.

So about 9 million active characters in 2 of 3 game markets, and Blizzard claims 9 million total accounts active right now (and they explicitly exclude closed, expired trial, etc., accounts from "active").

Pretty much lines up, really.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[MarcoAtWork]

So about 9 million active characters

they are not active, I know somebody who hasn't played since mid-August and his characters are still viewable in the armory.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[Rakarra]

Warriors getting buffed again (no, Mace nerf is not meaningful. Intercept buff is.) so Kalgan can rock his Season 3's.

You may see this as a troll post, but Blizzard has been clear with their actions they're not interested in class balance, only in buffing (making stronger) the classes that the dev's mainly play. For those uninformed, Kalgan is the head designer/game balancer, and his current favorite class is Warrior.

If all this "Kalgan favors warriors" nonsense was actually true, then the arms tree would have had a worthwhile 41-point talent by now. Endless Rage is competing with Lightwell for the honor of "least often taken 41-point talent for someone specced into that tree." Arms warriors didn't get buffed, since because there's no reason to spec more than 31-33 points in arms, pvp warriors will still dump a bunch of points into fury and get everything they want there, just like before. In fact, you could say that the change to disarm mechanics serves as a nerf to the formerly-disarm-immune warrior. Then there are the fury warriors, and the jury is still out on whether the loss of Death Wish will be balanced by the increased threat reduction. I suppose it will depend on the encounter, but the fury warrior won't be able to ramp up his damage as much for Death Wish+Execute to burn out enraged bosses. At least prot will benefit from the expertise change. It's a bit of a nerf to my orc axe racial skill though.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[Anonymous Coward]

These are the replies that drive the good players away from WoW:

"Can I have your stuff"
"Its fine, L2P/learn to play"
"Class balance is fine, you just suck"

Other MMOs have FAR less of this idiocy. Try hopping onto EQ2, Vanguard, or another non-WoW MMO and watch the conversations in the server general chats. They do have their moron moments, but they are relatively rare compared to the deluge of detritus found in trade channels in WoW cities. Other MMOs actually have skill needed to play, from what class abilities do what, to combinations of talents.

WoW, endgame, be it PvE, or PvP, is just about the +numbers. Maybe Blizzard should just calculate point scores, and just have it that the person with the fewer points gets the release button. Until I geared a rogue out, I wondered if I just sucked in arenas and battlegrounds. It wasn't my technique. Once I got my rogue good PvP gear, I pretty much went from crap to chewing everything in sight except a similarly geared team on the opposite faction. 95% of WoW PvP is solely the gear, and the rest maybe some lucky timing (a kick right when a mage is casting a poly, or getting that five-point crit finishing off a hunter before he gets his big red pet on you.)

If you are a PvE/raid/roleplay type person, avoid WoW. There are far better places, with far more intelligent players to venture and kick butt with than WoW. And, yes, you can still have a RL life and still do well in game. The days of 5 hour Sayrn plows and 18 hour plows in Air are long gone.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[Das Modell]

Every class always complains that they, and they alone, have been nerfed because Blizzard doesn't care about their class. My theory is that people expect their class to be omnipotent, and when that doesn't happen they complain about nerfing and balance. It's the same thing with Team Fortress.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[GrumblyStuff]

Failures!

Lightwell is a 31-point talent! You must be thinking of Circle of Heal(lol)ing.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[SatanicPuppy]

Well, a good 10 of those characters are me, and I haven't logged on in months. Lining things up with 1 character per account is way off if you consider how many long time players there are. If I logged in every character I created since it went live, I'd probably have two dozen that were lvl 30+ and I'm hardly alone in that.

It also doesn't count item mules, auction house characters, trade skill mules, etc...Doesn't count the 2 new characters everyone started to play through the Blood Elf and Dranae starting areas.

I don't have any percentage in seeing WoW's player base rise or fall, I honestly don't care. But I think it's pretty unlikely that they have 9 million active subscribers if the Armory numbers aren't at least 18 million. That just doesn't jive with what I know about the game.

My personal experience is that membership among people I know is dropping off. Whether that is being replaced with new players, I have no idea.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[irc.goatse.cx troll]

While I agree about the warriors getting stupid buffs and warlocks getting the shaft, I have to question

For those only interested in PvE, it's not looking to good on that front either. If Zul'Aman is similar to Kara, there won't be many guilds progressing past it either.

"past it either"? Are you implying there aren't a lot of guilds that can beat kara?
http://www.wowjutsu.com/world/ has 33284 total guilds listed, with 99.98% full clearing kara.
If you're interested in PvE getting a pug together to clear kara is not hard. If anything ZA is a godsend to guild that can easily get 10 good players together but struggle to get 25 for ssc/tk without having to bring in people that can't dodge spouts.

The new heroic loot will also (marginally) help fill in the gaps for guilds still working on making it into hyjal. Marginally as its mostly spellhaste gear, which is severely overvalued and will not help someone otherwise too badly geared to keep up.

Also as for your armory data, I don't believe armory records chars below a certain level (10?) which can account for the discrepancy.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[theantipop]

It's the same thing with Team Fortress. Except it doesn't take hundred of hours to switch classes in TF.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[Das Modell]

That's true, but many players have one class that they play more than any other. I've played a spy since 1998.

I see the same complaints made by WoW and Fortress Forever players. They're repeatedly killed by another class or they're unable to effectively utilize their own class, and they start complaining that their class sucks and needs to be powered up immediately, often to an unreasonable degree.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[Anonymous Coward]

eq, eq2, wow: best gear == winner

if the gear is the same then skill may come into play

Re:Slashvertisement?

[GaryPatterson]

I'm someone who plays in the WoW environment, and I'm okay there, but as soon as I go against a similarly spec'd player I nearly always lose. I think I've got some sort of co-ordination problem - while the other player is leaping around like a rabbit on speed and hitting me with well synchronised de-buffs, spells and all sorts of unholy damage, I'm trying to attack them and hit my little buff button while not looking away from the screen (or I'll probably die).

Whoops, hit the wrong button. I guess dispel undead won't help against that blood elf, but that bubble-shieldy thing would've been nice and given me the time to heal up a bit. Whoa - how'd he do that? And that! What *is* that twirly thing he did with the sword? And I'm dead. Again. Curses!

I'm like this in most games. As soon as it gets really fast-paced I start making mistakes. I think I tagged plasma grenades on myself in Halo, while looking wildly in all directions and being shot up by hysterically-laughing Covenant grunts.

I get better, but rely on the game mechanics a bit more than I should. I could ask for changes to the Paladin class in WoW to make things easier for me (guns! more bubbles! more stuns!) but my skill level would drop down to the lowest common denominator and I'd suck even more.

I'd be ashamed of my utter lack of gamer-adequacy if I were having less fun.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[MBGMorden]

While I agree about the warriors getting stupid buffs and warlocks getting the shaft, I have to question You know, I'm not one to go into the "woe is my class" tirades (mainly because I have 3 70's I play and soon a 4th, so I've always got SOMETHING I can play :)), but warlocks are the best DPS casters in the game right now. Not much to complain about.

For those only interested in PvE, it's not looking to good on that front either. If Zul'Aman is similar to Kara, there won't be many guilds progressing past it either. "past it either"? Are you implying there aren't a lot of guilds that can beat kara? I think he was implying that a lot of guilds clear Kara and never make any other progress beyond that, which is certainly true. This is more due to numbers IMHO. Just easier to get 10 good players together than 25. ESPECIALLY if you start running Kara first. If you can only accomodate 10 people per run, then eventually your useful playerbase whittles down to 10-15 people who actually get to go, where the rest bail out to other guilds to go on THEIR Kara runs. It makes it hard for most guilds to make the jump from 10 mans to 25 mans if they don't already have the numbers for 25 mans.

So in essence, all those guilds that are stuck clearing just Kara will now be tackling (and soon clearing) ZA, but then they're gonna be twiddling their thumbs again, never to really dent SSC or beyond.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[klngarthur]

no he did not say he's mined about half the data. The person who reported about it on world of raids made that claim. go look at the actual site: http://okoloth.blogspot.com/ All he has stated is that he's mined about 4.5m records, and has updated them since 2.2. That's it. nothing more. Nothing about the actual size of the player base.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[klngarthur]

it doesn't take hundreds of hours to switch in wow either. A few clicks and you're done. What you probably meant was it takes 100s of hours to reach the same power level. Well the same thing is true in tf. Someone who spends all their time playing one class in tf will take time learn a new one. Maybe not as much time, but any game with some level of complexity will have a learning curve.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[irc.goatse.cx troll]

lolwell is debatable but can be used right with good raid discipline (drop a lolwell for dpsers to grab as needed, especially warlocks. frees up your GCD's to be spent on the tank.)

Circle of Healing however is absolutely insane on the right fight, but worthlesss otherwise. The reason so few take it is so few are at a point in the game where you need to heal a group of people clumped up, but take a look at the Bloodboil fight and watch how much easier it gets with CoH.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sadly, I need to post as AC as I moderated this as interesting. I did this not do this because I agreed, but because I checked and you seemed to have done a bit of research (or you're a good guesser who should go buy a lottery ticket). I've watched your post go up and down all day; call it my own little experiment. You're presently at zero. This tells me one of two things: Wow fans are rabid and do not accept biatches be dissin' der game: you pissed off this Kalgan fuck and he ordered his minions to mod like mad.

I can say one thing: I can account for at least 30 of the 'character logged in' with the 3 accounts in this house. Though I don't think 'leaving in droves' makes sense either. I think the numbers have always been inflated.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[fractoid]

Warriors getting buffed again (no, Mace nerf is not meaningful. Intercept buff is.) so Kalgan can rock his Season 3's. You do realise that the changes (change to disarm immunity aside, which is a pain, and the minor mace spec nerf) make ZERO difference to PvP spec warriors? All they do is nerf fury warriors' burst damage, slightly up their sustained damage and threat reduction, and make it nearly impossible to set up a worthwhile PvP/PvE hybrid build.

It sounds from your post like you got butthurt by a well geared warrior. Try taking on a warlock that can drain heal 500 hp/sec, has 12k health and can chew through that warrior's HP in no time, WHILE keeping one or two other players crowd controlled. WoW isn't balanced around solo or small scale PvP... which is why they give out the best PvP gear according to small scale PvP performance. Right?

Re:Slashvertisement?

[fractoid]

I think I've got some sort of co-ordination problem - while the other player is leaping around like a rabbit on speed and hitting me with well synchronised de-buffs, spells and all sorts of unholy damage, I'm trying to attack them and hit my little buff button while not looking away from the screen (or I'll probably die). Keybind everything, EVERYTHING that you use in combat. Turn your character with the mouse, just hold the right mouse button down almost permanently and look around as you would in an FPS (except zoomed out as far as you can). Also remember that most of the people you fight probably play 5-10 hours a night and have done so for months. Most of it is automated to the muscle memory stage, leaving their conscious minds to make strategic decisions.

But the main thing, which you nailed in your last sentence, is that you're having fun. Which, of course, is the whole point of playing games, and one that many people forget.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[Anonymous Coward]

You play a mage, don't you?

Re:Slashvertisement?

[Rakarra]

D'oh! You're right, I've never even seen a priest take Circle of Healing.

I remember someone did a sweep of several thousand random armory profiles of level 70 characters and did a breakdown of percentages of builds, and of those builds, what percentages took the 31-point and 41-point talents. Pretty interesting.

Re:Slashvertisement?

[Rakarra]

lolwell is debatable but can be used right with good raid discipline (drop a lolwell for dpsers to grab as needed, especially warlocks. frees up your GCD's to be spent on the tank.)

Yeah, my BF is a lightwell-specced priest (well, until next patch) and, although it seemed so useless at first, we just.. kept finding good uses for it. Say, in Gruul, where we had to drop raid healing after a certain number of growths and focus on the tanks -- lightwell was down to top off those who took a cave-in. Same for Void Reaver (using it during VR required some timing though). It's great for any situation, in fact, when the healers are strained enough that they can't top off the raid but have to focus instead on the tanks.

Circle of Healing, which I've still not seen anyone spec for, sounds like it could be incredible in a number of fights. That number being.. sadly.. small. I don't know what you'd have to give up to get it though. When my guild was learning Void Reaver, various guides mentioned that CoH was incredibly good at healing the melee taking the pounding. I've still never seen it used in practice, and now I'm curious. It's instant-cast nature sounds great (on paper, again), though it requires people in that group be pretty-closely clustered (within a 15-yard-radius circle), a behavior the game tends to penalize in many fights.

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[idlemind]

There are no successful people who play WoW. Right?

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[e1618978]

You won't make it to the very top - the very top is already occupied by the guy who inherited the business from his dad after playing WoW non-stop for 20 years. And I for one welcome our new rich kid, WoW playing overlords. Seriously, if you work so hard that you have no time at all for a little computer game here and there, then you probably will never live long enough to enjoy your hard won earnings. Your WoW playing kids will spend it right up after you die, though.

BEST ACRONYM EVER

[freshmayka]

Quick question. Would World of Warcraft have been so successful had its acronym been something like:

DOAC (Doh-Ahk)
SWG (Swig)
AO (Ayy-Ohh)
EQ (Eee-Que)


Instead the acronym is WoW... just WOW... I mean WOW!! People say WOW inside WOW all the time! Its a recursive and reinforcing acronym that keeps you locked into their subscription plan for all eternity!!!1

Re:BEST ACRONYM EVER

[vux984]

DOAC (Doh-Ahk)

Dark Ages of Camelot

DaoC.

Re:BEST ACRONYM EVER

[freshmayka]

Fuckin slashdotters... replying with a minor correction and not engaging the original question regarding the WOW acronym.

L2Reply

Re:BEST ACRONYM EVER

[Surt]

Having a good acronym was one of the reasons we picked the name 'world of warcraft'. There was even an email very near the start of development suggesting that anyone talking to the press/outside world should say 'wow' if they were going to abbreviate, to make sure that would catch on, and not 'wuhwuh (ww)'.

Re:BEST ACRONYM EVER

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe he didn't give a shit about your idiotic question, but does care about accuracy?

Re:BEST ACRONYM EVER

[vux984]

replying with a minor correction

Nobody has ever called Dark Ages "Doh Ack" ever, because that isn't how the abbreviation is spelt. So its hardly a minor correction. And in fact, I've never heard anyone call it "Day ock" either, for that matter. Most people just call it "Dark Age" or "Dark Ages" as in "Want to play Dark Age tonight?"

As for star wars, people just call it galaxies, I've never heard anyone ever say: "swig".

Re:BEST ACRONYM EVER

[Eggplant62]

World of Warcrack. 'Nuff said.

Re:BEST ACRONYM EVER

[Xentor]

Actually, my WoW guild leader used to run a guild in DaoC, and he says "Day-ock" on voice chat.

But then, he mispronounces everything...

Re:BEST ACRONYM EVER

[Some_Llama]

DOAC?

Dwellers of another cellar?

Re:BEST ACRONYM EVER

[k_187]

Really? My guild calls it world of wackoff. Either are appropriate I would think.

Re:BEST ACRONYM EVER

[jfodale]

Have no fear, the "Day-Ock" pronunciation is/was used by many people.

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[beowulfy]

Myself and 7 other of my highly motivated and successful co-workers, who also happen to be software engineers, enjoy playing WoW when we have the time. Having drive and ambition doesn't mean you have to cut out the fun. And kids who play WoW all day would likely not be job competition weather WoW existed or not so I wouldn't get too excited.

Quit Warcraft

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously. Go for without it for a month. Come back and re-evaluate the game. You won't love it as much as you used to. It's a GOOD game. Not a great one. Not worth a front page by any means.

Re:Quit Warcraft

[loafula]

I know he's an AC, but mod it up. And when reevaluating WoW, reevaluate how much damage it is inflicting on your life (thats like 1d-fuckin-a-million points of damage). Then lose some weight, make some friends, go out, and get laid.

Don't give me the "but it's fun" argument, either. Heroine is fun, too, and look at the toll it has on people.

Re:Quit Warcraft

[Das Modell]

It's exactly the opposite for me. I play the game for a month or two and get bored, and after taking a break I want to play it again.

Not worth a front page by any means.

It's the biggest MMORPG in the world, but it shouldn't be on Slashdot's front page because you, an AC, don't personally like it that much?

Re:Quit Warcraft

[Omestes]

Actually I took 2 years off playing (it was WoW vs. College, college won), and started playing again about 2 months ago when a bunch of old friends started playing. I still find it fun. It has the most polish of any MMO I've played, I like the story, it ties in well with the amount of time I killed when I was younger with the Warcraft games. Also it has been saving me money, I generally buy a game a month for various consoles, and now I don't bother (Until the new Smash Bros comes out, or I get the Guitar Hero for Wii). Its a pretty good time killer, and gives me an excuse to chit-chat with friends I wouldn't talk to near as much without WoW.

I do find it funny how serious some kids take it though, to some kids it is a life-style unto itself. Which I guess is understandable, since I managed to waste most of the 90's staring at various MUDs.

On the other hand, I find it equally amusing how much some slashbots hate it.

Its a damn game, not worth forming strong opinions over.

Re:Quit Warcraft

[bigstrat2003]

No, that's only if you're an idiot. Most people don't play WoW in lieu of paying attention to the rest of their life.

Re:Quit Warcraft

[Jugalator]

The part I don't understand with WoW is why people don't get bored with all the grind before they receive their rewards, especially later on in the game.

Sure, the rewards keep getting better, but still... It's working a lot for usually virtual goods, unless you're in the rare case violating the EULA and selling your services.

Re:Quit Warcraft

[immcintosh]

I've done this a couple times. Leave for a few months and come back. Every time I would discover I liked the game less and less. Last time I came back I sorta played around for a couple weeks, thought, "Meh, this is really lame and mind numbingly repetitive," and really just totally lost all interest. I don't suspect I'll be going back again.

Re:Quit Warcraft

[sporadic]

Good timing on this thread. I just went through the free 10 day trial of WoW, and I'll admit I pulled a few (3 or 4) all-nighters, and I had fun! WoW was my 2nd MMORPG, Earth and Beyond was the first from a few years ago (great game, until EA bought Westwood and drove it into the ground,) and I had a blast too, played for almost 2 years. I'm not going to get the game, as much fun as I had, because ultimately it's the same thing, grinding and leveling. I had two characters (Human Pally and Elf Hunter) that got to level 19/20, so admittedly I barely scratch the surface, ans there's so much of the game I haven't seen. Maybe it's because of my age (almost 37) but gaming doesn't have the same priority as it used to. Perhaps 10 years ago I would've been hooked, but now it seems like I have more fun tinkering with the CentOS server, or trying out various OSes (Solaris 10 x86, PC-BSD, and FreeBSD were installed on an old P3-500 box just within the last month).

Not knocking anyone who plays and loves the game, it's just not for me. For one thing, crafting is fun, but come on, I just wanna kills stuff. I don't want to be a miner/leather skinner/herb gatherer in real life, what makes you think I want to spend money to be a virtual one. :)

I have a ton of PS2 games I haven't finished yet, like FFX, FFIX, MGS3, LotR:RotK, GT3/GT4, God of War, etc.

Regards,

Jimmy

Re:Quit Warcraft

[Jack9]

Not worth the front page because it's not news. It's an incremental content patch they've been doing since Dire Maul? So what.

Re:Quit Warcraft

[Terrasque]

It went the other way for me.

When I started, I liked more tinkering than gaming, now its the other way. Probably gotten lazy with age ;)

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[bdjacobson]

Seriously though, this is GREAT NEWS! Think about this for a minute-
While we tinker away all day and night coding out the new big thing with SQL, integrating modules into programs, and screaming at your computer monitor because of incompetent customers.... These kids sit around playing WoW.

They are our stepping stones! They are the ones we can use to move forward in life. They are our next generation of fast food servers ready to take our orders! This thrills me, it means more and more people are too sucked into a game than to become competition for my job and power. Let them rot away in front of a computer playing games..... It gives me an edge. Call me an asshole, but remember It takes drive to make it to the top. I've been at Georgia Tech for over 2 years now and play World of Warcraft. I'm living proof you can waste time and get along in life!

I for one welcome our 12 item mail overlords

[WillAffleckUW]

And will be glad to use the Guild Banks to fill the coffers of Squirrelly Wrath, Blood Pact, and Care Bear guilds to the brim!

At last I can store all those mechanical squirrel boxes for guild members!

Re:I for one welcome our 12 item mail overlords

[orclevegam]

LOL! Squirrelly Wrath! I love it. Wish the guild I'm in had a name that cool. Oh well. Incidently how many servers are Care Bear on? I know of at least 4 different servers I've seen Care Bear (or some derivative such as Care Bear Club) on.

And now, I must take my squirrel to the bagel shop!

Re:I for one welcome our 12 item mail overlords

[WillAffleckUW]

Not sure, I know other Care Bear guilds exist (I started it with Taurean Druids on one server), it's been great for having Bear Dance Parties ...

But the existence of Guild Banks in 2.3 means that guild masters (called Squirrel Masters in Squirrelly Wrath) don't have to carry around all those items and use up their own bank slots to keep them when the whole guild should be able to share items.

The 12 item per mail limit increase is also nice when you bump up a level and get new armor but want to send your old armor to a friend or alt. Won't work for bound items, of course, but a lot of basic equipment is quite expensive when you get to a new level.

Re:I for one welcome our 12 item mail overlords

[orclevegam]

Yeah, our guild has already started a fund to buy the guild bank slots (which reminds me, when I get home I need to send out guild money bank 20g). Hadn't heard about the 12 item per mail thing before now, but that's very nice as well. Also notice that you can control click recipes to see the item now which is rather nice. Now if only there was some way to preview what a mount looks like.

Re:I for one welcome our 12 item mail overlords

[GaryPatterson]

12-item mail = good for me!

Lately I've collected lots of herbs by killing tree elementals in Felwood, and mailing them to my wife's herbalist takes *ages*.

This is a sensible change, probably overdue but I've not played the game for long enough to really know how much pain it's caused.

Re:I for one welcome our 12 item mail overlords

[WillAffleckUW]

Exactly. Sometimes I have in-game friends who aren't in my guild that can take basic leather and make it into good armor for a druid, for example. But they usually need a bunch of items sent, so it takes forever mailing the stacks one by one.

Re:I for one welcome our 12 item mail overlords

[Blakey Rat]

The last patch fixed the dressing room bug that pissed me off the most. If you were a druid in a shapeshift form, or a shaman in ghost wolf form, when you control-clicked something the dressing room would just show your shapeshift. And of course since animals don't wear equipment, it didn't help much. You had to un-shift, control-click to make the dressing room work, then shift back. Very annoying, but it's been fixed awhile.

This 2.3 patch also adds a gryphon in north Stranglethorn Vale. THANK GOD! I don't know why this wasn't added back when they added in a lot of new flightpoints in like Un-goro and other places, it's been long, long in coming.

The changes to AV are... interesting. I don't know if I'll like them or hate them, but it's worth a try I suppose and if I hate them, I can still do Eye of the Storm.

Re:I for one welcome our 12 item mail overlords

[orclevegam]

Yeah, I always hated questing in STV because it takes FOREVER to get from one end to the other, particularly at those levels when you don't have a mount yet. FYI, my two mains were a druid, and a shaman, so I'm very familiar with that particular bug, although I'm a bit disappointed they fixed the bug that let you take out your weapon/shield while in ghost wolf. Was always funny to be running around with a shield and a axe floating just off your paws.

Re:I for one welcome our 12 item mail overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

one word
ct_mailmod avail at all good mod shops and ctmod.net

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[Pojut]

"Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted." - John Lennon

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[Anonymous Coward]

You've waste two years of your college life sitting in your fucking dormroom or apartment playing a fucking MMORPG?

What a loser...

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[EvilGoodGuy]

I'm 4th year CS at GaTech, been playing WoW since it came out. Aside: How'd you like that evactuate campus message today lol.

"Players leaving in droves..."

[brouski]

Whiny players claim this after every buff or nerf, major or minor. Shouldn't the WoW user base be in negative numbers by now?

Re:"Players leaving in droves..."

[Blakey Rat]

I helped run a MUD from 1997-2006 and we got this constantly, every time we made any change at all. We actually had a player who quit (and came back) so many times (7 I think) we just finally banned his account so he'd stop quitting. (Normally, it's not an issue, except he'd throw fits and delete his characters, then demand his characters be undeleted-- also he'd write long-winded "man this game sucks" postings on the forums. And every time he'd be a regular player again in less than a month.)

Saying you're going to quit a MUD/MMO because of a change made is the idlest of idle threats.

Re:"Players leaving in droves..."

[Mattsson]

Saying you're going to quit a MUD/MMO because of a change made is the idlest of idle threats. Not if you actually do quit. At least not if it's a pay 'n play, like WoW. If you make a non-profit game, you can ignore if people stop playing as long as the few who do stay like it.

Normally, it's not an issue, except he'd throw fits and delete his characters, then demand his characters be undeleted The magic lies in having a "Delete Account" function, not just "Delete character"
Blizzard don't, but if you ask them, they'll delete your account for you. (Been there, done that)

Though, my reason for quiting WoW wasn't change, but lack of change. None of my issues with the game has changed in the last year and a half.

Re:"Players leaving in droves..."

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like someone I know on RotS . . .

Re:"Players leaving in droves..."

[trezima]

What MUD was that? ZombieMUD?

Re:"Players leaving in droves..."

[fractoid]

Most of the people I know who play have quit WoW. Some of them several times... They always come crawling back. :P

Re:"Players leaving in droves..."

[Moraelin]

What MUD was that? ZombieMUD?

Probably any MUD ever that's changed anything. I know I've heard or read that stupid threat on more than one MUD.

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[EvilGoodGuy]

And how much time do you waste reading articles about things you don't care about? Then how much time spent posting anonymously because it matters if people know your internet name? What a loser...

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[bdjacobson]

LOL.

Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[SmallFurryCreature]

I got a pet little theory about MMORPG's and that is that most players play them, because there is nothing else. WoW was king not because of its excellence, but because of its one eye in the land of the mole people.

Currently my drug is LOTRO, and I can see once again just how bad the game is. Not bad in a conventional "crash and burn" type way, but bad as in, I can't believe I am playing this, kinda way.

But I need my MMORPG fix, and for now LOTRO provides it. But I am looking constantly for something new.

I get the same feeling from other players, we know the likes of Blizzard and Turbine and SOE are yanking our chain but we need that fix and we are forever hopefull that the next supplier of our drug will get a clue and provide a FUN game.

You know what I find hardest to understand? The insistence of companies to add a tedious grind for miniscule advancements. Oh but you got to keep the player intrested, else he will quit playing after one month and then were will we get our money?

One simple answer, THE SIMS

A fun game, that easily spins as much money most MMORPG's, yet it provides player with FUN so they keep coming back for more (Sims expansion packs are not quiet as regular as once a month, but they cost more AND the company doesn't need to provide servers and customer support).

There are countless more games that get endless replay simply by being FUN! I played Bioware RPG's several times for the HELL of it. So why do MMORPG companies feel they got to add endless grinds to keep players hooked? It doesn't really work on myself, I prefer the middle game and once that is done, I move on. Considering that most MMORPG slowly die I can't think it really appeals to that many people, just most keep playing until they find somethingbetter.

Is it just LOTRO that right now is a bit deserted after the EU launch of Tabula Rasa?

Would I recommend trying LOTRO at the moment? No not really, the game is rapidly dying in for the early levels. Everyone is either working on their end game OR leaving for greener pastures. Oh that still leaves a lot of people playing, but if you want to logon during the week, be prepared for some very lonely areas. Same thing happened to EQ SWG WoW and probably countless other MMORPG's I never bothered with.

Sometimes I think the most innovative element a new MMORPG could introduce was permanent death upon achieving the top level. Reach say 100 and you got time for a few epic quests that end your characters heroic journey, before fading away and forcing you to start a new character. Gone would be the mad rush to end game, the constant demand for insanely high level extra content, the need for increased levels AND you would have a constant stream of people in all levels of the game to make newcomers feel less lonely.

Ah well, spend to long in here, need my fix. damnit, load faster I am going into withdrawal here!

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[colesw]

Sometimes I think the most innovative element a new MMORPG could introduce was permanent death upon achieving the top level. Reach say 100 and you got time for a few epic quests that end your characters heroic journey, before fading away and forcing you to start a new character. Gone would be the mad rush to end game, the constant demand for insanely high level extra content, the need for increased levels AND you would have a constant stream of people in all levels of the game to make newcomers feel less lonely. Welcome to LORD (Legend of the Red Dragon) from the good old days. Basically you would reach max level, defeat the Red Dragon, and then you start over at level 1 with a few of your skills a bit better (I think ... it has been a while). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_the_Red_Dragon

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[Das Modell]

WoW was king not because of its excellence, but because of its one eye in the land of the mole people.

WoW is an excellent and well-designed game. If it sucked ass, people wouldn't play it. It's not like the market hasn't been saturated by MMORPGs for years.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[archen]

Sometimes I think the most innovative element a new MMORPG could introduce was permanent death upon achieving the top level

Possible to work in theory (like communism) but probably not workable due to human nature. Generally you look at accomplishment in obtaining levels and obtaining gear. Finally getting that then having the character die pretty much negates all you worked for at that point if you want to keep it. Aside from that you've invented a new grind where you simply cycle from low to high instead of doing high level things.

A lot of this stems from the fact that all these games take their heritage from Dungeons and Dragons. You hit a few points about the SIMS though. In the end the only way to really eliminate grind is to eliminate "leveling", and to some extent hording things. The SIMS is fun more so due to the process of game play then from the results of game play. A game may do better than World of Warcraft, but the next real revelation in online gaming will be something very different which is more well rounded in day to day fun.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[Sczi]

Ahh, LORD. One of the few things that made good use of Ripterm.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[UnknownSoldier]

> WoW is an excellent and well-designed game.

Oh please. I am a game programmer.

* The designers don't have a clue stick about "dead time." Spending half of your time traveling back and forth across zones before you get your mount at 40 is B-O-R-I-N-G. Flying takes far too long.

* The ONLY way to level up is to kill things. For those that only interested in creating/crafting things, you're screwed.

* Quests are very limited. There 10 basic times, but only about 5 account for 95% of them: "Kill", "Random Drop", "Delivery", "Item", "Boss"

* Very limited world interaction. The world is static -- much like a ride through Disney Land. Your actions don't change the world.

* Crafting is not thought out. i.e. Smiths can make armor, but not repair their own??

I could go, but I'm saving it for my paper "A Critical Analysis of World of Warcraft: The Good, Bad, Ugly, and Stupid"

Wow is NOT a great game -- but is "good enough", and certainly is "better" then anything else out there. The UI mods alone show where the real innovation in MMORPGs are these days --> Making the game more accessible.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[UnknownSoldier]

> I got a pet little theory about MMORPG's and that is that most players play them, because there is nothing else. WoW was king not because of its excellence, but because of its one eye in the land of the mole people.

As a game programmer I would agree. Wow is NOT great, but it is "good enough", and certainly better then anything else that is available at the moment. Blizzard did nail "casual gaming" pretty good (Lev 1-20), so I have to give them credit for that.

--
Why does some Tailoring recipes require leather items??

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[immcintosh]

If you're looking for an MMO that is actually fun to play, you might want to give Tabula Rasa a try. It's a pretty decent departure from the standard MMO fare. It's a very immersive experience, because friendly NPCs take a HUGE part in what's going on, and there is a dynamic feel to it. For example, you might be standing in some forward base and suddenly have a swarm of enemies fly in and land in dropships, only to be confronted by the NPC defenders as you lend a helping hand. Stuff like that happens all the time.

It has its warts, but for people like you who are really looking for a new formula, it's (so far for me at least) a great breath of fresh air. Oh, not to mention that the developers don't seem to know what this whole "downtime" business is all about, and as a result failed to intentionally include it in core gameplay--if this game has any effect on MMOs of the future, I hope it's this.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[Das Modell]

So basically, WoW is badly designed just because you don't like MMORPGs? That's not a very compelling argument.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[MarcoAtWork]

> Oh please. I am a game programmer.

exactly, you are not a game designer, it's obvious from your comments.

> * The designers don't have a clue stick about "dead time." Spending half of your time traveling back and forth across zones before you get your mount at 40 is B-O-R-I-N-G. Flying takes far too long.

dead time increases your wanting to level up to get the mount, it increases the value of mounts to players enormously: same thing for flying mounts, same thing for epic flying mounts. Think carrot (mount) and stick (time spent travelling)

> * The ONLY way to level up is to kill things. For those that only interested in creating/crafting things, you're screwed.

the amount of time the designers spend on creating mobs is way higher than the amount they spend in professions: if professions are your thing wow is probably not the game for you.

> * Quests are very limited. There 10 basic times, but only about 5 account for 95% of them: "Kill", "Random Drop", "Delivery", "Item", "Boss"

I challenge you to try to come up with a quest, any quest, that can not be boiled down to those simple constituents. (note that escort quests can be simplified as 'delivery' quests, and any sort of quest that can have you steal/manipulate things with can be simplified to 'item' for example).

> * Very limited world interaction. The world is static -- much like a ride through Disney Land. Your actions don't change the world.

how can you guarantee a consistent gaming experience to all your players if you let them change the world? Can you imagine how crappy the experience would be for a new subscriber if you let old high level subscribers destroy all the lower level areas permanently for example? (which is what would happen a second after you let people do it).

> * Crafting is not thought out. i.e. Smiths can make armor, but not repair their own??

crafting is thought out very well for what it is, a time/gold sink to give people something to do. If you allowed, say, blacksmiths to repair armor for free or at a big discount, every single raider would spec blacksmith in a second, you have to consider the balance of the game as a whole.

> Wow is NOT a great game -- but is "good enough", and certainly is "better" then anything else out there.

the incredible amounts of money it's been pulling in since release disagree with your view. WOW is a skinner box, intended to get people to be addicted to it, it parcels out rewards often enough to keep you hooked, but not so much as to overwhelm you and make you feel that you 'won', because if you did you'd cancel your subscription.

There always always always needs to be a further carrot for you to work towards, that's what people that complain that all the time bliz spends on 'high level dungeons that 1% of the population will ever see' is wasted don't understand: yes, only 1% of the players will see them, but at least 75% of the players will yearn to see them, and consequently will try to progress to that level while remaining hooked to the game (and paying their subscriptions).

Once a certain % of the players has reached a certain level, then Blizzard will release a new and shinier carrot, and the cycle continues: once they are out of carrots, out comes a new expansion, with apples, then one with bananas, and so on and on and on forever. Playing wow is like watching broadcast tv, a mindless time wasting activity, which is perfectly fine if done in moderation (everybody needs downtime) but not fine at all if you are sacrificing things you could do in real life just to spend more time in game under the mistaken assumption that what you do there 'matters'. Your GM gear, that you spent 6+ months of 50 hours a week of play, that you sacrificed 4 weeks of work vacation for the last push for, has been obsoleted by quest rewards anybody can get: was it really worth it?

I am positive blizzard employs quite a few psychologists to make sure their game is as addictive as possible (or has in

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[bigstrat2003]

The designers don't have a clue stick about "dead time." Spending half of your time traveling back and forth across zones before you get your mount at 40 is B-O-R-I-N-G. Flying takes far too long. The first point I'll give you. The second, not so much. Flying takes as long as it should, unless you're talking the Darnassus->Theramore flight, or something else that cuts across all of Kalimdor. Those take forever. Apart from that, flying takes barely any time at all, and is a good chance for me to view and appreciate the scenery. 2 years, and that hasn't gotten old for me, so don't lay the "It gets boring after the nth time" line on me.

The ONLY way to level up is to kill things. For those that only interested in creating/crafting things, you're screwed. This isn't bad design, this is just a design choice. If you're only interested in crafting, this isn't the game for you. Can't please everyone.

Quests are very limited. There 10 basic times, but only about 5 account for 95% of them: "Kill", "Random Drop", "Delivery", "Item", "Boss" Every quest in every RPG ever made can be boiled down to this if you strip away the fluff. It's the fluff which differentiates things, and makes them interesting.

Very limited world interaction. The world is static -- much like a ride through Disney Land. Your actions don't change the world. This is a GREAT design choice. It ensures that everyone is having the same experience in the world, and limits the ability of douchebags to have an impact on other people's play time. I'd like WoW quite a bit less if the world weren't static, because I know what maturity level WoW players tend to have, and how it would affect my game experience.

Crafting is not thought out. i.e. Smiths can make armor, but not repair their own?? On the contrary, this is thought out, and your claim to the contrary shows your lack of education on Blizzard's thought processes in the game's design. They've said that this is a deliberate decision to allow them to take gold out of the economy. Disagree if you wish, that's your right, but it most certainly was "thought out".

Wow is NOT a great game -- but is "good enough", and certainly is "better" then anything else out there. The UI mods alone show where the real innovation in MMORPGs are these days --> Making the game more accessible. On the contrary, WoW is a great game, precisely for the reason you mentioned: it's accessible. There are precious few games (of all types), let alone MMORPGs, that I've tried that had the accessibility level of WoW. Sure, there are always improvements to be made, but nothing is perfect. WoW is far and away the best out there at the moment, and while it may not fit your needs for an MMORPG, claiming that it's poorly designed is nothing short of asinine.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[Draeven]

So basically you define an MMORPG as WoW, and the various paradigms found therein?

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[UnknownSoldier]

> dead time increases your wanting to level up to get the mount, it increases the value of mounts to players enormously: same thing for flying mounts, same thing for epic flying mounts. Think carrot (mount) and stick (time spent travelling)

No it doesn't. Dead Time is BORING. The first rule of game design "The game should be fun"

Go play some DnD (the pen & paper game) and learn about dead time.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[MarcoAtWork]

> No it doesn't. Dead Time is BORING. The first rule of game design "The game should be fun"

#1 you completely missed my point, the boredom is what pushes you to level to get the mount
#2 the first rule of (mmporg) game design is to hook people and keep them hooked, fun is not the primary objective, having them renew their subscription for years to come is. Single player and non-subscription-revenue games are a different kettle of fish, since the player has already given you all their money, you can indeed focus on making the game fun and satisfying to complete; there is no completing an mmporg.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[UnknownSoldier]

> 2 years, and that hasn't gotten old for me, so don't lay the "It gets boring after the nth time" line on me.

People have better things to then waiting around for their avatar to reach a destination. i.e. Flying from Iron Forge to Scarlet Monastery is a complete waste of your time for 10 mins when you've already been there numerous times. God help you if you PUG it, and you have to wait another 10 mins for everyone to get their act together. There is a reason other RPGs have "gates", "town portals", "runes", "teleport", to minimize the time the _player is doing nothing_.

If I have fly someplace, fine. Let me work on my crafting skills in the meantime. Let me play a mini-game. Let me pay more money to get there faster. ANYTHING. If a player is unable to interact with the game for 5 minutes, the designer has screwed up. Players are spending their time to be entertained, not be bored.

Like I said, the designers are clueless about dead time. DnD and Halo are great examples that have minimal (or almost none) dead time.

> This is a GREAT design choice. It ensures that everyone is having the same experience in the world, and limits the ability of douchebags to have an impact on other people's play time. I'd like WoW quite a bit less if the world weren't static, because I know what maturity level WoW players tend to have, and how it would affect my game experience.

Have you played RTS's at all? Dynamic worlds are always much more interesting then static worlds, virtual or not. Without change, things become stale, and boring.

There is no reason why the two can't be "zoned" to limit griefing (that's a much nicer term then calling someone douchebags.) Wow has just scratched the surface with a dynamic world -- look at the PvP zones / towers. It makes things more interesting.

Chess has these two elements indirectly. Your king is safe in the "static" part, your pawns are at the "frontlines." It is the _dynamics_ of the game, that make any game interesting.

> On the contrary, this is thought out,

The crafting design is sloppy.

The crafting skill system is linear, instead of being two dimensional. You can level your skill up making few items and once your skill is high enough, you can make a second item that is gray, without any fail, even though you've never made it in your life. That's not intuitive or logical.

Items are placed at arbitrary skill points, without any regard for items made before or after. Knowing how to make clothes from wool, silk, or cloth are all independent of each other, but in the game, they are artificially forced into some linear system, and that somehow a person is completely unable to make them because they don't understand the "basics". If I make copper bullets, I might have an idea how to make silver bullets.

Crafting forces an artificial reliance on NPCs. i.e. I'm an Expert Tailor, but apparently I can't make my own thread??

There is no reward for when you fail to make an item. People learn the most when they "fail". A good game offers a "win-win" situation, so that players are not penalized for their choices.

There is no logical reason why a person is limited to just 2 professions. How hard is it to skin an animal, pick wild flowers, and mine for ore. Apparently this is too much knowledge for my poor avatar's brain. Game balance issues should have logical reasons presented to players so they can understand the trade-offs. i.e. You can learn more skills, but they will be capped. Sid Meir said "Give the player interesting choices." Choosing 2 out of 10 professions is not interesting. Choosing 7 skills out of 100 is (ala UO.)

A large part of the problem, is that the UI is not user friendly. How do I "unlearn" recipes that I never use or need? How can I organize my favorite items that I make all the time? How do I teach others when I'm an expert in my craft?

> WoW is a great game, precisely for the reason you mentioned: it's accessible.

Relatively ac

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[UnknownSoldier]

#1 No, getting access to new skills every 2 levels, and new 'phat' loot is what push people to level up. The mount is just a side issue. Having played D2 for 4 years, I've experienced time and time again first hand the "virtual dress up for boys" is the fantasy that keeps people playing.

#2 Which is why I argue current MMORPGs are not great games -- their first focus is not fun, but keeping them hooked. That's a terrible way to make a game. IF you make your game fun in the FIRST place, you don't have to worry about keeping people hooked! It's a backwards way of game design and business. Give players what they want, and they will come.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[UnknownSoldier]

> Choosing 2 out of 10 professions is not interesting. Choosing 7 skills out of 100 is (ala UO.)

Sorry, forgot to add: choosing 2 out of 10 professions is not interesting. Choosing which one is capped at 100%, which 2nd one to cap at 90%, the third at 75%, the fourth at 50% is.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[UnknownSoldier]

Having played Wow since it the day it came out (for 4 years), and UO for 4 years, I like MMORPGS.

I think it is badly designed because of game design flaws.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[Das Modell]

If WoW isn't a MMORPG, then what is it? A tennis game?

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[Das Modell]

What game design flaws would those be? The things you listed don't qualify.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[bigstrat2003]

People have better things to then waiting around for their avatar to reach a destination. i.e. Flying from Iron Forge to Scarlet Monastery is a complete waste of your time for 10 mins when you've already been there numerous times.

Considering you're talking about an impossible flight, it'd take a lot longer than 10 minutes. Hell, even if such a thing were possible, it'd not take 10 minutes. Flying across the ENTIRE HEIGHT OF KALIMDOR takes about 10 minutes. Going from IF to SM isn't close to that distance.

God help you if you PUG it, and you have to wait another 10 mins for everyone to get their act together.

Idiocy of the playerbase is not the fault of the designers.

Have you played RTS's at all? Dynamic worlds are always much more interesting then static worlds, virtual or not. Without change, things become stale, and boring.

I've played a great many RTSes, thank you very much. It's not true that dynamic worlds are always more interesting than static ones. First of all, a dynamic world can be poorly designed, and thus be less enjoyable than a well-designed static one. Second, static worlds are not inherently stale and boring. I've played some of my favorite games God knows how many times now, but they don't get stale and boring because they were at such a high level of interesting to start with.

There is no reason why the two can't be "zoned" to limit griefing (that's a much nicer term then calling someone douchebags.) Wow has just scratched the surface with a dynamic world -- look at the PvP zones / towers. It makes things more interesting.

Three points:
a)What exactly do you mean by the zoning you describe?
b)When describing the idiots that tend to populate WoW, I'm not going to mince words.
c)The pvp zones, and towers, do not make the game more interesting in my opinion. I completely ignore them, in fact. Certainly they don't make things worse, but they also don't make things an ounce better.

The crafting design is sloppy.

The crafting skill system is linear, instead of being two dimensional. You can level your skill up making few items and once your skill is high enough, you can make a second item that is gray, without any fail, even though you've never made it in your life. That's not intuitive or logical.

It may not be intuitive or logical, but it works quite well, especially in the context of the levelling curve. As you level, assuming you took your profession at the beginning, you make things which are more powerful, and more useful for you. I mean, sure, it'd make more sense to be able to fail on lower-level items you haven't made before, but what's the point?

Items are placed at arbitrary skill points, without any regard for items made before or after. Knowing how to make clothes from wool, silk, or cloth are all independent of each other, but in the game, they are artificially forced into some linear system, and that somehow a person is completely unable to make them because they don't understand the "basics". If I make copper bullets, I might have an idea how to make silver bullets.

Again, it makes sense to have some delineation of how things should be broken up. Certainly, what you say is true in a real world, but it doesn't need to be in the game world. In addition, it makes things better in the game world, because anyone who has the progression explained to them instantly knows, based on an item's name, how comparatively rare, valuable, and powerful it is.

Crafting forces an artificial reliance on NPCs. i.e. I'm an Expert Tailor, but apparently I can't make my own thread??

Again, this is intentional. If you don't like it, fine, but it's certainly not like it's unaccounted for (ie, not well-thought out, as was your claim).

There is no reward for when you fail to make an item. People learn the most when they "fail". A good game offers a "win-win" situation, so that players

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[MarcoAtWork]

'#1 No, getting access to new skills every 2 levels, and new 'phat' loot is what push people to level up.'

that is another carrot added to the bouquet, of course the mount is not the ONLY thing, but it is a powerful incentive as the levelling curve starts to noticeably slow down in the late 20s/early 30s

'...it's a backwards way of game design and business. Give players what they want, and they will come.'

yes, they will come, but will they stay? In an mmporg every player wants the most overpowered equipment, do you think they would stick around once you give it to them? Like I was saying the point of an mmporg is to create an open-ended experience (as in, keep playing, keep paying), and to make it open-ended the carrot needs to be kept just slightly out of reach at all times.

In other games this feeling of carrot-ness is implicit in the player (basically wanting to get just a little bit better to improve your k/d ratio, or beat your high score, or beat your speedrun time, etc. etc.) while in mmporgs this is codified by means of gear/skill progression. In an interesting trend even non mmporg-games are starting to have some skinner box mechanisms of the same kind by having the 'achievement' system, which is definitely something created to keep people playing a game much longer than they would in the first time if they didn't exist.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a game programmer.

Yeah? Worked on anything I'd know?

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[MrHyd3]

Sorry, but I have to agree w/ Unknown here. I have a few toons and talk about dead time, I'll minimize to a browser and surf while waiting to land. A mount? Hell, every mount is cool for about 2 days and then it becomes too slow...etc. They need to add an element of randomness like 3rd party or actual NPC faction raids on towns etc....let the low levels battle NPC's that are raiding, say X-Roads or something similar.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering you're talking about an impossible flight, it'd take a lot longer than 10 minutes.

OK. You're clearly missing the point on this one. 10 minutes of downtime for no good reason than to penalize me for wanting to go somewhere else sucks. Making it more than 10 minutes would make it worse, not better. WoW travel: sucks.

It[the retarded WoW crafting system] may not be intuitive or logical, but it works quite well, especially in the context of the levelling curve.

No, it does not work well at all. It works badly, at best, especially in terms of the "levelling[sic] curve". It causes unnatural dependence of higher level characters on the lower level characters who have other reasons to kill the mobs which drop the linen or whatever.

This makes sense, in its own way, but since you were the one advocating realism before, you should be against this. I don't get anything when I make a crappy cake in real life, except a crappy cake. Eventually, I may or may not learn to make a better cake, but the act of failure rewards me with nothing.

No? Does the phrase "I think I know what I did wrong?" hold no meaning for you?

I fail to see how that's any more interesting than what WoW has.[re: choosing primary, secondary, tertiary, etc. profesions with diminishing returns on each]

Just about anything else would be more interesting than what WoW has. WoW crafting is dull beyond all belief... With a hundred skills to choose from (and, granted, the implicit notion that each one feeds outputs into several of the others) then you'd have a fine basis for a player economy. With a scant dozen to choose from and you can completely master two of them one rarely needs items from another craft...

I am claiming that WoW is high quality, and that your assertions to the contrary are false. I would claim this even if it had just one subscriber, who was me.

Yeah? How far can you solo? Level just one character just as high as you can in a complete void from all other players (this includes no auction hall, no opportunistic kills of a mob who has friends who are occupied by other folks, no grouping on any instance, ... .... ... ) If you were the one and only subscriber you would not make such an absurd assertion.

WoW is not 'high quality' as you say. WoW is a decent MMO, about the best that I've seen, but... It is so shitty in so many respects...

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[fractoid]

Excellent and well-thought-out post. Not many people understand the reason for the apparent 'dead space' of time-consuming tasks in WoW (and MMOs in general). I do think that there are so many things to do in WoW now that some of the grinds can be toned down (an example is the reputation required to run heroic dungeons, which is stupid - if I have good enough gear to complete the heroic version of the dungeon, why should I have to run the non-heroic version twenty times? Thank god they've decided to change that.)

Overall, however, the more time is required to obtain an item or whatever, the more value it holds for the players. A good example is the epic gear from the recent Headless Horseman halloween encounter - sure it's epic, and the gear is good quality for a non-raider, but it was piss easy to get so it carries no prestige. I'd have loved to be able to grind for Grand Marshall back when doing so meant something, even if the gear IS now totally outdated, because the rank is an achievement in itself. Of course, real life intervened and I ended up wandering around Thailand instead... ;)

Anyway, modpoints2usir~!

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[LarsWestergren]

>> * Quests are very limited. There 10 basic times, but only about 5 account for 95% of them: "Kill", "Random Drop", "Delivery", "Item", "Boss"

>I challenge you to try to come up with a quest, any quest, that can not be boiled down to those simple constituents. (note that escort quests can be simplified as 'delivery' quests, and any sort of quest that can have you steal/manipulate things with can be simplified to 'item' for example).

Exploration, detective, conversation quests. Problem with them are that they take time to implement well, and once the solution is out people who are more interested in leveling than enjoying the game cruise through them very quickly.

>> * Very limited world interaction. The world is static -- much like a ride through Disney Land. Your actions don't change the world.

>how can you guarantee a consistent gaming experience to all your players if you let them change the world? Can you imagine how crappy the experience would be for a new subscriber if you let old high level subscribers destroy all the lower level areas permanently for example? (which is what would happen a second after you let people do it).

Exactly... see for instance the desert gates in WoW which opened up a new area on the server. The key was given to selected guild leaders as a quest reward, and on some servers, they promptly refused to open the gates. This might have been for role playing reasons or perhaps they just enjoyed the power to cause grief for others, but it did piss off a huge amount of players on those servers.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[bigstrat2003]

OK. You're clearly missing the point on this one. 10 minutes of downtime for no good reason than to penalize me for wanting to go somewhere else sucks. Making it more than 10 minutes would make it worse, not better. WoW travel: sucks. That's ironic, considering you missed my point. My point was that an impossible flight (ie, the flight from IF to SM, which does not exist) takes infinite time. There is only one 10-minute flight in the game, and while I'd like to see that one toned down, it's also something that never gets encountered any more, since no one has a reason to go from Darnassus to the southern parts of Kalimdor. In every other instance, flight times are just fine. I can fly across Outland in 3 minutes, tops. If that's too much downtime for traveling, cry me a fucking river.

No, it does not work well at all. It works badly, at best, especially in terms of the "levelling[sic] curve". It causes unnatural dependence of higher level characters on the lower level characters who have other reasons to kill the mobs which drop the linen or whatever. That has nothing to do with the levelling curve. That's a max-level player power-levelling a new profession. Oh, and God forbid that we go out and get our own mats. That would be just unthinkable, especially with the insane killing power that a higher-level player has against lower-level mobs. Dear me.

Just about anything else would be more interesting than what WoW has. WoW crafting is dull beyond all belief... In your own opinion. I like WoW's crafting just fine. That still doesn't address my point, though, which is that picking more professions is not inherently more interesting.

Yeah? How far can you solo? Level just one character just as high as you can in a complete void from all other players (this includes no auction hall, no opportunistic kills of a mob who has friends who are occupied by other folks, no grouping on any instance, ... .... ... ) If you were the one and only subscriber you would not make such an absurd assertion. Your "rebuttal" is pretty weak there. I never claimed WoW is a game which should be played solo, nor did I say that if I had only ever played it solo, I'd enjoy it. If every other WoW player left, I'd still think it was a good game. That's all. Granted, I'd probably not be playing soon after that, due to the impossibility of getting anywhere in the game with just me (not to mention that Blizzard would have shut down the servers), but that still wouldn't change my opinion of WoW, which would be that it's a great game, even if no one else agrees.

WoW has issues, most of which are balance issues, but I have yet, in 2 years of playing, to run into an aspect of the game which is "shitty". It's a great game, and justifiably is the game which many other MMORPGS are copying. If you don't like it, that's your right, but the entire point here was not to convince a WoW-hater to like the game, it was to address the simply ridiculous notion that WoW is some paragon of bad game design.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[tbannist]

I challenge you to try to come up with a quest, any quest, that can not be boiled down to those simple constituents. (note that escort quests can be simplified as 'delivery' quests, and any sort of quest that can have you steal/manipulate things with can be simplified to 'item' for example). Explore an area? Craft an item (not buy)? Race to a different location?

Or how about any quest where you have a choice? The only choice in most quests in WoW is to complete or not complete the quest. There worst consequence to completing a quest is a loss of faction with an opposing group, which you never really have to care about anyway.

The only real choice is Aldor or Scyer, where you choose which of 2 different quests you'd like to complete.

Re:Was WoW simply the least bad MMORPG?

[ggwood]

I'm wondering when technology will do away with the needs for as much server segregation. Yes, there need to be parallel copies of the world, but why can't I move between them more easily? I imagine if the game gets to the point where the low end of the level spectrum is nearly empty, there would be a self-organization of people playing lower level characters onto a specific copy of the world where they could group together.

The idea I voiced years ago for Everquest 1.0 was a server for 1-25 level players only. It would have been so much fun to play the game as it was originally intended, without the item influx and buff influx from all the bored end-level players. Warcraft has done away with virtually all of the more serious problems this could fix, however, if there was a need to concentrate the newbies in one place, open the server, limit the level to 25 (or whatever - I'm no WoW expert), and give every character a free transfer out when the reach maxlevel (or get within a couple/few levels of maxlevel). It would be such fun. People would stick around just to see what could be taken down by a dedicated horde of level 25's.

It will do it no good.

[7-Vodka]

Unfortunately this patch will never be able to reverse the bastardization they've introduced into the game.

The more they take content and put it into instances, both pve and pvp; the more it becomes a pointless game to play. Why play a Mmorpg which has turned into an Orpg? Does it matter that there can be 2k people on your server when you only ever see a dozen or so every night because the game is all instanced?

Then there's the cottage cheese-y-ness they've done with pvp. It used to take some skill, quick thinking and some organization. Now with resilience , other damage mitigation and overpowered healing that can keep anyone alive things like arena matches turn into long grind fests. The outcome of pvp encounters used to be maybe 50% skill and preparation, 20% luck and 30% gear and class make-up. With all of the changes they've introduced this past year, your typical arena match is determined by 10% skill and preparation, 5% luck, 85% gear and class make-up. Doesn't that sound exhilarating kids?

This happens with a lot of mmorpgs. They are released in a form that is slightly buggy and end up with all of these unplanned and unforeseen novelties in terms of gameplay, strategy, interaction. Then after the corporation that develops it spends a few years tightening the cogs and getting RID of the unplanned and unforseen elements as well as anything that gets complained about by the userbase, voila! You end up with a bland, boring game no one plays anymore.

I was a member of a guild with over 100 people and kept in touch with a former guild of 200. They've both dried up and shrivelled out of existence because every patch slowly turned the game more and more bland. Both 'realms' I used to frequent have died horrible deaths and the main cities are ghost towns.

Bring back the wild west. Bring back the buggy, unforseen, wild, insulting, violent mess that was Ultima Online back in the early years. There were no cookie cutter classes. There was gambling, extortion, confidence tricksters, scammers, spammers, raiders, looters, exploiters, thieves, honorable and dishonorable fighters and gangs. There was somewhat of a safety zone in towns. There were no factions, everyone and everything was fair game. There was no one way to play the game, I'm sure people have so many interesting stories about how they or friends played. I had a friend who liked to spend his time stealing useless items. He was a weird looking fellow and a clepto. He also enjoyed running around town naked. He would yell at the NPCs and get angry at the guards when they caught him and killed him. That was his take of the game.

If I wanted to play around in a world where everything gets regulated and restrained and anything that causes people to whine gets the axe I would... Not go pay $50 bucks + $15 per month to do it on a computer, there's plenty of it in a non-virtual world.

The only reason WOW hasn't collapsed like a house of soggy cards is that there is still an influx of new players and the game does have a great unique feel with LOTS of art and content to discover as you level. But once you're done leveling, the game is over.

Re:It will do it no good.

[ivan256]

The more they take content and put it into instances, both pve and pvp; the more it becomes a pointless game to play. Why play a Mmorpg which has turned into an Orpg? Does it matter that there can be 2k people on your server when you only ever see a dozen or so every night because the game is all instanced?

Eh, it's either that or you're competing with a few thousand other people for spawns to complete the same quest objectives.

Really the only reason the game is MMO is so they can charge you a monthly fee. All the content can be divided up between "moderately multi-player" (between 5 & 80 people), and "you wish this was single player". The online functionality in WoW is essentially a regression from optimal (which they hit with Diablo 2). It's still a good game though. Worth playing a character through the level climb at least once for each faction.

Re:It will do it no good.

[Necroman]

The nice thing with the model Blizzard has created with Expansions of WoW, when WotLK is released they can completely change the way end-game is played. I don't expect the next expanions end-game to be the same as the current end-game. Increasing the level cap lets them introduce new concepts and remove broken ones.

Personally, I love end-game in WoW right now. You don't need to dedicate yourself to end-game raiding unless you are going for the high-end stuff. 10-man instances are a great way to raid 2 nights a week and still feel like you are acomplishing something. If you want to see the high-end instances you still have to do the 4-5 nights a week.

I think the Arena needs some serious tweaking for the time/gear rewards you get from it. I love the concept, but the gear you get from it is amazing for PvP and overpowered for PvE. I'm normally one of the top DPSers in my guild (we only run Karazhan) and I'm geared almost entirely with Arena pieces. A system where you can completely gear yourself from PvP to make PvE easy seems a little broken to me. It would be nice for a mix (or having the gear transfer over poorly between the 2 end-game activities).

Re:It will do it no good.

[Das Modell]

Bring back the wild west. Bring back the buggy, unforseen, wild, insulting, violent mess that was Ultima Online back in the early years.

If it's anything like PvP realms in WoW, it has to suck tremendous amounts of ass. Paying a monthly fee for the priviledge of getting ganked and griefed once every five minutes by some psychopath is not my idea of fun. You're essentially paying the developers to constantly interrupt and ruin your game.

Re:It will do it no good.

[UncHellMatt]

VERY well put!! But I do disagree with you on a couple counts.

First, personally I wouldn't like the game as much as I do if there were more griefers. From what I've read about UO (no, never played, so please pardon me if this is an inaccurate statement) it got to the point where some people could barely play the game anymore if they made the "wrong" enemy, and there was quite the plethora of people who went out of their way to be those enemies. And when I play on PvP servers, solo questing is just about impossible. Certainly it's more exciting and challenging, but there are times when some folks don't want to have to watch their back constantly. If you're wide open to attack at any time, and potentially from someone using a speed hack or item hack, the game would start to lose it's appeal.

Second, I have lots of fun still even with *cough* a few toons at 70. Respec my Druid and I go from healbot to tank. Do it again, and now I stand around and just nuke. Do the same for, say, a Paladin and you're ... well, healer or tank. Perhaps it's due to the server I'm on being one of the most populated, but when I'm out and about I always see lots of people, new and old faces, and never have much difficulty in finding a group if I'm in the mood.

Too MUCH regulation is certainly a bad thing, and perhaps there are times when Blizzard goes overboard. But IMO most of the time they have kept things in the middle of the road. Totally agree with you on PvP though... These days you don't require anything even remotely resembling skill, you just need to put in the time.

Re:It will do it no good.

[bigstrat2003]

YOU may want these things. A lot of people don't. Instanced PvE, at the very least, is the best damn idea ever. Raids would be incredibly annoying if you had to compete with other players to move through the dungeon, and to fend off the griefers (see: outdoor dragons). In PvP, the same is true in my opinion. World PvP sucks, battlegrounds are the way to go. And for those of you who like world PvP, they are trying to get something nice going for you in WotLK, with the Lake Wintergrasp zone (non-instanced, objective-based pvp).

Re:It will do it no good.

[Chokolad]

Play Eve Online then. You will get all this and more.

Re:It will do it no good.

[mingot]

Bring back the buggy, unforseen, wild, insulting, violent mess that was Ultima Online back in the early years.

Always fun to daydream, but given the alternative people will always pick the safe and easy. Who's going to want to be a sheep in that game when they can just play WoW? And MMORPGs wont work when everyone is a wolf.

Re:It will do it no good.

[Mattsson]

But once you're done leveling, the game is over. I my opinion, it's the leveling part that needs updating. Almost all new content is for level 70.
Of course, I didn't even reach 70, so can't compare pre70 and post70 play.
After running around feeling like my character waded in concrete for the first five minutes if gameplay, my goal was to get to 40 so I could get a mount.
At around level 20, I was bored out of my mind with repetitive quests, hated PvP and loathed playing in groups, but I thought that maybe if my character could move a bit faster, it wouldn't be as bad.
At level 40, I got my mount and found it to be sooo sloooow.
At level 45, I deleted all my characters and contacted Blizzard to have my account removed.

By the way, why on earth don't they have a "Remove User Account" functionality in their account-management?

Re:It will do it no good.

[crabpeople]

If its 1997 UO you want, I could not recomend EVE more.

Re:It will do it no good.

[kcornia]

To be fair, reading the message boards for Everquest back in the day when guilds would fight for spawns, race past other guilds who were trying to get to the end boss, training mobs to raids, that shit provided some hilarious reading...

Instances do away with the griefing and drama that was so fun to watch from the sidelines..

Re:It will do it no good.

[Mattsson]

Worth playing a character through the level climb at least once for each faction. Don't know about that. In my opinion, the content is more or less identical no matter what class, species or faction you play.
Sure, there are some specific content, but the differences are minor. Even playing one character up the leveling gets repetitive around level 20.

Re:It will do it no good.

[Wog]

They do. It's under subscription information. All you have to do is remove the automatic payment and ta-da, your account goes inactive at the end of the billing cycle.

Re:It will do it no good.

[gad_zuki!]

Another "bring back my old exploits and unbalanced classes/weapons/spells" fans. You know that that kind of environment is only "fun" for the first few nerds who find out about it. Then everyone knows that the spear of pokey-in-the-eyey is overpowered when weilded by a talking half-dog warrior. Then everyone plays that, then the old players whine when that class is brought back to normal standards by the developers.

Fine, you liked it before, but Im certainly not going to the play the sheep for your wolf. Screw it. Whats fun for the kids 'in the know' is a pain in the ass for the rest of us still discovering the game and who are looking for fun, not just griefing or ganking people from behind with the over-powered dagger of stupid-mythical-reference.

Developer and game companies know this, thus they fix these bugs and put in balance. Dont like it? Go roll your own little MUD, but dont whine when no one shows up.

Im so sick of this bully mentality. People who get off on offing newbies or outright cheating. Youd think nerds would understand the downside of bullying better than most, but I guess not.

Re:It will do it no good.

[Mattsson]

It goes inactive but it isn't removed. Why would one want an dormant account lying around for a game one does not intend to play anymore?
If you want the account actually deleted, you have to contact Blizzard and specifically ask them to delete it for you.

Re:It will do it no good.

[MBGMorden]

Why the heck would you CARE if there's an account you don't even play? You afraid you're gonna go back to it?

Re:It will do it no good.

[kionel]

Wild West? Ultima Online?

Someone missing being a technosocipath, perhaps?

Seriously, why would anyone want to play in a game where you have to worry that your leisure time will be wasted hiding from some psychotic tard-bot with carpal tunnel syndrome and a cable modem? Reading about the PK gangs in UO -- and having experienced the gank-fest that is WoW PVP servers -- I don't understand the appeal. I log in to unwind, not to get annoyed.

Different strokes, I guess...

Re:It will do it no good.

[Evangelion]

FWIW, they won't even delete it if you call them up and ask.

Re:It will do it no good.

[seebs]

I don't see anything wrong with some of the content being soloable or small-groupable. I have a small group of people I really like to play with; no objections here to the fact that I can't see the whole game (it's not as though I have finished even 50% of the part I've seen, and I've been playing over a year now).

Re:It will do it no good.

[fractoid]

Bring back the wild west. Bring back the buggy, unforseen, wild, insulting, violent mess that was Ultima Online back in the early years. The most awesome moments I ever had in WoW were unintended by the devs. I think the best ever was when someone in the AH set off a hunter's pet with Geddon's bomb debuff on it. A huge bang and instantly the AH was full of about 50 corpses... my mage was owned by the blast but it was still awesome.

Re:It will do it no good.

[fractoid]

After running around feeling like my character waded in concrete for the first five minutes if gameplay, my goal was to get to 40 so I could get a mount. You rolled a cow, didn't you? They always feel like they're walking on the moon, because Blizzard decided that all characters walk at the same speed regardless of cosmetic size. Try a gnome, you feel like you're zipping along... also like you're a shortass. :/ Sounds like WoW just wasn't your style, though... that's OK, I've always hated FPS games. :P

Re:It will do it no good.

[HellProphet]

Remember how much fun that was for you and it happened what once in your play time? In ultima online that kind of grieving was a daily thing.

I would log on some days and play for hours with out wanting to up my skill %'s (like leveling in wow) I would spend 4 hours running around to guild houses, and gambling at houses. Unfortunately like society the sheep have become so scared that they want a games where the wolves have been put into cage. It is crap. Not only for the wolves but the sheep are missing out on the element that made MMORPG a success, that element was uncertainty every day brought about a different element. In wow it is rare to find this element. The world is set up to be more persistent then anything. In games like UO and even though Vanguard was a flop it had the element of uncertainty.

However a outstanding MMORPG will not be created until the sheep get some courage. I think however WOW is an outstanding thing; I think through sheep's effort to gear out and do controlled battle grounds their courage will swell and they might branch out to a more dangerous game. Let us hope Darkfall online brings back the glory of what an MMORPG needs to be.

Re:It will do it no good.

[Mattsson]

It's simply irritating to know that I have an unused account.
I'm the same with other online services. If I don't use a certain service, I don't want an account for that service

But it's a personal preference. Many people don't care about having hundreds of unused accounts spread around the internet.
I do. =)

Re:It will do it no good.

[DerWulf]

The wow forum is leaking big time .. could you keep your whining there please?

Adressing your post:
1) WoW subscription numbers are rising so no, not *everyone* is quiting and WoW is not failing (which 'prophets' like you predicted for since well before the game was officially released!)
2) Instancing: Spamcamping and getting jacked while doing a hard boss are not fun. The world is still plenty massive. So is the real world yet I don't want 2000 people over every night. 3) Arenas: IT'S RATED. Got it this time? The rating ensures that you are up against opponents that match you in strength. Wether this is skill or gear doesn't matter.
4) PvP: I lol'd at this "it used to be better". It wasn't. It was more gear dependant since you could easily one-two shot people. It wasn't about organization but about getting 15 well equiped people to cap the farm (or stables) in 20 seconds. The old preformed PvP Groups left the battleground if the other side even put up a fight. It was the worst grind any game ever had because it got harder the more other players grinded!
5) Bugs & Xploits: You gotta be kidding me. I'm glad WoW has so few bugs ...

Re:It will do it no good.

[Mattsson]

You rolled a cow, didn't you? Actually, it was an undead warlock.
Also tried an elf hunter, because of the elves higher speed when dead and hunters aspect of the cheetah.
Didn't help much though.

Sounds like WoW just wasn't your style, though... that's OK, I've always hated FPS games Agreed. FPS sucks. So does sports, car, beat'em up and most strategy games.
RPG's, adventure and platform games is my cup of tea. =)

Re:It will do it no good.

[tbannist]

By the way, why on earth don't they have a "Remove User Account" functionality in their account-management? Because people would use it and not come back after they quit.

Re:It will do it no good.

[Anonymous Coward]

Please keep your pussy ass off our servers. Thats what the normal ones are for.

QQ

I always love that line, players leaving in droves

[Shivetya]

The churn numbers in WOW is probably greater than many games have total. Yet if every troll post I read about WOW losing players in huge numbers were true what does it say about other games who are obviously NOT getting those players? Blizzard doesn't always do the best job at class balance but they do a far better job than other companies, their numbers attest to this. While I am taking a break from WOW I do plan on getting back in, changes in this patch may be enough for me as I can bring up some other classes and see how the game plays out for them.

Part of the magic of WOW is that it really does have separate classes where the differences are enough to grant four to six different ways to play the game. The hybrids blend obviously, but melee, magic, and ranged melee (bow), all work well and in many cases require different play styles. Magic is the most diversified where playing a priest is very different from a mage just as its different from a warlock.

I have a warrior and to claim that only classes the lead design or high placed developers are being buffed is to ignore the fact that many people with these classes have been waiting for their day in the sun. If what you implied were true the largest number of players would have long focused on Warrior - which is not the case. Shaman get some tweaks now to enhance two of their trees. Yeah warriors get some bennies here but each class received buffs as well as some tuning which tones down overpowering areas.

My beef has been that PvP/Arena gets way too much focus but obviously I am not in a majority as it appeals to large number of players. The problem of course is that these are the most competitive players and as such will be the most vocal. If they didn't bitch then Blizzard would have a problem, that would be a more clear indicator that people were leaving.

Ah, burnout

[Besna]

Have fun wandering the streets homeless in a few...months.

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[Anonymous Coward]

He's just mad because he got kicked out of his guild for being a Huntard.

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[Anonymous Coward]

Time was wasted, you enjoy not wasting John Lennon.

My story

[Anonymous Coward]

I played Warcraft obsessively for nearly a year. I have a level 70 Priest decked out in 70 Dungeon Blues.

During this last summer, I played most intensely, raising the player from 34-70 in a matter of weeks (again, nothing special).

One day, I woke up and thought, "Wow. This game really doesn't matter much to me. When does it end? Will I be 40 years old and still playing?"

And with that, I closed my account.

Great game. But not for me.

I wish I could take back that year.

Re:My story

[ultramk]

You put a YEAR in and aren't completely epicced out?

You're right, the game isn't for you.

Re:My story

[bigstrat2003]

I've played for two years, and I'm not completely epicced out, although I have a decent percentage of epics (>50%). Even if I were still in dungeon blues, I'd be ok with it. The game is not necessarily about getting purple pixels, that's just what a lot of people want out of it.

Re:My story

[MBGMorden]

I agree with this. Personally, I've played since January 06. I was fully epiced at the start of TBC, and at 70 my main has all epics except for 1 piece (which I've actually saved Badges of Justice to remedy when 2.3 comes out :)). However, another online friend of mine, who has been playing since release, has ZERO epics. Before TBC? ZERO epics. It's just not important to him. He logs on, and likes mainly to talk in the guild, and maybe run a regular dungeon every other week. The one time he came along in a raid, and actually won the roll on an epic, he then decided to pass on it, since he felt he really didn't need it.

Re:My story

[T.E.D.]

One day, I woke up and thought, "Wow. This game really doesn't matter much to me. When does it end? Will I be 40 years old and still playing?"

I am 40 years old and still playing, you insensitive clod!

Re:My story

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been playing over 2 and don't have a 70 yet.

Would you like some Alterac Swiss with that whine?

[0xdeadbeef]

Why is that every time WoW is mentioned on Slashdot, it seems half the posts are from bitter, pathetic whiners who complain that the game no longer fulfills some need driven by personality defects?

Hey, guess what? We're glad you quit playing. And no one cares why!

Well.

[UbuntuniX]

Shame I've leveled ten times in the last ten days, up to 53. I could have waited. =\

Re:Well.

[GaryPatterson]

I'm slower at levelling than you, but I thought that as well. Still, it was fun and maybe it's time to try out a new class.

Re:Well.

[arootbeer]

Am I the only one who's been HOPING that the patch wouldn't come before I hit 60? Leveling has been some of the most fun I've had in quite a while, going from my 70 lock to my 18 priest (who's now 35). It's nice to have a different skill set, but being almost full holy spec, doing all the quests has been an actual challenge, as opposed to grinding my affliction lock.

I've decided that the game is what you make it, and as several other posters have mentioned, $15 a month is very cheap compared to a lot of other hobbies. It's a good diversion, and I personally think it's a lot of fun.

Great timing

[Eggplant62]

Over the past few months I've been running a L51 NE priest and a fast-leveling L56 Gnomish mage around on Zangarmarsh realm to join their older sibs in BC, L70 NE hunter and L70 NE druid. This patch comes at a good time, as that mage and priest need to get moving up. I wanna get everyone to 70 so that I can have a choice of which character to drag on guild runs.

Woot, more content.

Re:Great timing

[Xentor]

Good move... I've got six 70s, a 65, a 52, and a 44... One of each class, and--

YES, I KNOW. I have no life...

But I tried quitting for about eight months, and realized all I replaced it with was watching bad television, so I went back.

Leopard friendly

[Midnight Thunder]

I wonder whether they take the opportunity to sign the binary, so that it plays nicely with MacOS X 10.5?

For more info on the issue: http://homepage.mac.com/simx/technonova/C488455530/E20071107233441/

Re:Leopard friendly

[Kalriath]

They can't. I imagine that the changes it makes to the binary is its "anti-cheat" system. What, you expect them to package their private key with each update to that component so that the application can re-sign itself?

What should be happening is that Apple should change their operating system to not be so damn dense. There are potentially valid reasons an application could need to change itself (like an update) and that shouldn't stop it from even running.

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[Retric]

IMO being a software engineer does not make you a successful person. As long as you are a wage slave you're still just another cog in the wheel. Basically success is the point at which you can retire and live your chosen lifestyle in comfort for the rest of your life until that point you are bad accident away from living in the gutter.

PS: I am a software engineer with student loans etc so feel free to take that as you will.

Yes that's nice

[Sycraft-fu]

But all that is irrelevant. Why? Because WoW is fun. That's why so many people play it. It gives a lot of entertainment in their eyes for $15/month. If it doesn't for you great, quit. However please don't pretend like the way you like games is the one and only, or that you've figured out the magic formula. If you want a different kind of game, well go look for one. I hear in terms of wild west EVE Online is a good choice. Shadowbane sounds like another. Hell, if UO is your thing, go play it, it's still in active development (released a new engine just this year).

If you don't like WoW, there's lots of other games out there, so please, don't hate on those that do. I personally think Blizzard has made excellent design decisions. I support the direction they've taken with WoW and indeed it is the first MMORPG I've played that has held my interest for more than about 8 months (DAoC holding that record). If it doesn't give you want you need in a game then don't give them your money. But don't pretend like you are the only person who's important. Many other people love it, and indeed I'm betting many of them like it for the reasons that you hate it.

Not True

[SECProto]

I quit WoW in the spring of 2006 - 18 months ago. and when i read this article, i still got the urge to go play it. I won't, obviously, but it still interests me.

Re:Not True

[dintech]

It's strange. I think I spend more time reading about computer games than actually playing them.

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[bigstrat2003]

This depends on what you want out of life. If you want to be a "wage slave", nothing more, then achieving that, in the field you want to work, is success.

I cant agree ...

[koutkeu]

The game actually starts at lev 70 as do most other morpgs out there. Then again i guess i depends what you expect from the game. Anyone can mindlessly level up a character up to 70 without skill. To some its fun to others its a painfull grind. The real game begins when you start "raids" that require lot more time, planing, organisation, social skill. You complain that the gear is 85% of the skill but the gear reflects raiding skill ( and of course time ) but time alone wont get you the gear. If you looking to play to play a game that is 100% skill then go grab mortal kombat or tekken or any other combat game out there.

Re:I cant agree ...

[Anonymous Coward]

There are some MMOs where the ride to 70 (or level cap) is just as important as getting there.

Everquest 2 is a good example. You can grind your way to 70... only to find that not stopping to do quests along the way has starved you of AAs (EQ2's analog of talent points), and that the guy who levelled slowly to 70 by doing quests and instances as opposed to solo grinding 24/7/365 has a much more powerful character.

EQ2 is an odd bird of MMOs. If you plow to 70 like is required on WoW, you really don't have much to do, because until RoK is released, there isn't much to do for 65-70, other than work on a tradeskill. The trick is to take your time and do as many quests, instance bosses, and harvest as much as you can, then let your exp come as it may. Yes, you will take a while to advance compared to grinding the levels as in EQ1 and WoW, but you do a lot more interaction with the game's lore and completing detailed quest arcs with very good ending rewards.

Vanguard is similar, and its a game framework that encourages alts. When you level one guy to max level, all the rest of your guys require 5% less exp.

Remove the goldfarmers first

[sethstorm]

Still waiting for the patch that makes bans stick for goldfarming related rule violations.

Re:Remove the goldfarmers first

[geekoid]

gold farming has little impact on play. It is a myth that stems from EQ where a gold farmer would lock people out of parts of the game.

Everything they do, you can do, and all the best equipment requires instance runs and is usually BOP.

In fact, since there are more people running looking for more goods in a game with infinite supply, the logical argument is that they make stuff cheaper.

Re:Remove the goldfarmers first

[Anonymous Coward]

gold farming has little impact on play. It is a myth that stems from EQ where a gold farmer would lock people out of parts of the game.

Actually, gold farmers and sellers are incredibly annoying.

Go to any server, roll up an unguilded lowbie character and hang out in the first two zones. You'll be bombarded with blind group invites where they then try to sell you on a hack, leveling or gold selling service before disbanding the group. If it's a good day, you'll only get invited once an hour. On a bad day, it's every 5-10 minutes.

Then there's the issue of auction house prices where the farmers inflate the gold supply, making everything on the AH more expensive. So unless you get lucky and find good gear, you're SoL on equipping yourself using the AH.

Other big news...

[Cyno01]

For us with engineers, Craftable Flying Mounts! Regular and epic!

Engineering: Flying Machine
Reagents:
Adamantite Frame (2)
Fel Iron Bar (30)
Handful of Fel Iron Bolts (8)
Star Wood (8)
Fel Iron Toolbox
Elemental Seaforium Charge (4)
BoP, Req Level 70, Engineering 350+ to make and at least Expert riding skill to use.

Engineering: Turbo-Charged Flying Machine
Reagents:
Flying Machine Control
Khorium Power Core (8)
Felsteel Stabilizer (8)
Hula Girl Doll
BoP, Req Level 70, Engineering 375+ to make and at least Artisan riding skill to use.

Re:WOW - It's So Cute! but will U have a Life?

[WillAffleckUW]

IMO being a software engineer does not make you a successful person.

He's right. All the best people are bioinformaticians.

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[sweede]

Thats why real raiders have dual monitors.

Heroin Hero - Chase the Dragon

[crabpeople]

I almost caught it! Maybe with this new patch I'll catch it!

(anyone else think that trey and matt just got over their wow addiction?)

Re:Heroin Hero - Chase the Dragon

[NFNNMIDATA]

They actually said in their dvd commentary that they quit playing pretty quickly because, you know, they have a life and stuff.

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[beowulfy]

Sure, by default no profession instantly makes you successful. But working in a highly paid field where you get to use your brain for a living is generally considered a good position to be in. If you can't handle the stress or don't feel productive within the environment that you work to the point of it making you unhappy, that's a personal problem and can usually be fixed by finding a job that better suits you. And if you're living your life, waiting for retirement to feel successful/happy, then thats a whole different ballgame. Some people start in the gutter, being a bad accident away from the gutter is a lot better.

Changes Work For Me

[GaryPatterson]

I'm a casual WoW player. I just play for a bit of fun, giving up time I might be watching TV or reading a book instead. The social aspect of the game is fun, but I can't commit to arranging raids or multi-person instances because something might come up that I actually care about (my wife might say "let's go out to dinner tonight!" and I'll dump WoW without a second thought).

For me, the changes make it easier to get to L60 (my only character is a L55 Paladin, so there's not much more to go), add new content and quests, and hopefully will make dungeons a bit more playable for me. That's all good as far as I'm concerned!

I've seen a lot of posts about how WoW is dumbing down RPGs, how the game balance is poor or why PvP is not as good as before. Not having been involved in this game until recently, these posts seem to be a mix of "it were better when we were young" attitudes (think Liverpudlian accent), resistance to any changes and some actual concern for the game's quality. It's a fun game today, easy to pick up, easy to put down and simple to play.

I don't play for massive challenges, I play for fun.

The changes work for me.

Re:Changes Work For Me

[sr. bigotes]

As someone in nearly exactly the same boat (change wife for girlfriend, watching tv for staring at my cat), I must wholeheartedly agree. I just started playing about 2 months ago, and I haven't gotten a character above level 30, the reason for me, at least, being that NO ONE has characters in the middle range, so a lot of the harder quests are off-limits. Most people seem to not bother getting alts that high, and all other characters are at endgame. Forget the mid-range dungeons as well -- no one's there to run them. Blizzard is making this game beatable for me and others like the parent poster. Yes, I said beatable. When I get to level 60 and beat all the quests, I've beaten the game. That's how games work for me and I'm sure plenty of other people who have various and sundry interests (wives, cats), outside of MMOs. I don't care about the endgame raids nor PvP, and I think Blizzard knows they've attracted many people like me recently. Without this patch, though, I might have stopped playing. Point to Blizzard.

Re:Changes Work For Me

[bughunter]

Careful what you wish for.

I'm a casual player, too. I had barely levelled my main to 60 before BC was released. I had several alts on both factions in their 30's. And I was discovering that, for a casual player at least, end game is boring.

My options were: 1) continue to grind rep/gold at 60, 2) Level an alt through the same 1-60 grind I had just completed, or 3) devote more time to the game so that I could participate in endgame dungeons and raids.

Fortunately, after only a few weeks, BC came out and gave me the opportunity to level a new race in a new starting area, By the time my BE and Draeni alts were each level 20, and had advanced to the same zones, same grinds, same quests as my earlier alts, Hellfire and Zangarmarsh were no longer overrun with hardcore 60's camping spawns and named mobs, so I could enjoy levelling my main again.

I'm pacing myself so that I have a main character on each faction approaching 70 by the time the next expansion comes out, so I can again avoid hitting the cap and getting bored.

Either that, or I'll be playing Age of Conan or Eve already.

Re:Would you like some Alterac Swiss with that whi

[theantipop]

I'm only bitter that news like this makes me want to re-activate my account. Although not playing WoW is waaaay more expensive than the $15 a month I was paying. Since I quit a month ago I've spent well over $200 on Wii and PC games :(

Re:I always love that line, players leaving in dro

[Anonymous Coward]

Amongst my friends there is a network effect. If you aren't playing WoW then there isn't much to talk about.

I stopped playing about 6 months before Burning Crusade, and we haven't really hung out much since then.

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[GaryPatterson]

Your definition of success is irrelevant to others. For some, work is just something they do but being a success is all about their relationships/hobbies/amateur theatre/etc. For some success is about financial reward, and for others it's about being in a role where they feel valued. For you it's about being able to retire and live in whatever way you like.

That's all well and good. Different people define 'success' differently, and while your definition may work for you, I know few people who would agree.

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[bitterfun]

So you look forward to managing a bunch of WoW players? *shudder*

Woohoo! New patch!

[Khyber]

Start your torrents, Comcast users! Let's see what the fuck's up with their RST packets!

no way to play on two to four hours a week

[Dillenger69]

I might consider going back when I can make significant progress between 60 and 70 when I only have two to four hours a week to play. (never consecutively)
I pretty much quit the game when all my buddies were suddenly at 70 and I had no desire to play in pickup groups.
I look at it like any other sport, like golf, basketball, baseball, or whatever.
I don't golf 8 hours a day, every day. I don't want to play any game daily just to keep up with the other players. (The best solution to this I've seen so far was the City of Heroes sidekick system.)

I'm waiting for some reviews of Tabula Rasa ... hoping it might be worth my time.

Re:no way to play on two to four hours a week

[Terrasque]

Tabula Rasa review ;)

I've personally tried the beta, and I didn't like it. It felt.. as if it combines the bad parts of mmog like wow with the bad parts of fps shooters.

Basically, the feeling I get : by trying to grab both, it fails at both.

Re:no way to play on two to four hours a week

[jfodale]

"I'm waiting for some reviews of Tabula Rasa ... hoping it might be worth my time."

Sadly, it isn't. If you can pull yourself away from the MMO scene for a bit, the rest of the gaming genres are flourishing with incredible titles right now.

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[fractoid]

I used to be a real raider. Then I got a girlfriend, and she borrowed one of my monitors. :P

Re:Would you like some Alterac Swiss with whine

[__aaacoe2998]

I agree 100%. Every game has it's flaws. If the way the game has changed bothers people so much I wish they would stop whining about it and leave. I'm sure one of the next few MMO's will serve them better. Well, probably not. From my experience, people that whine about one thing publicly whine about a lot of things. I personally love this game. I can't imagine a world without WoW.

Whats going to break?

[Billly Gates]

I just finally got audio back on my crappy intel chipset with the latest minor release from a patch a few weeks ago. I still get occasional graphics glitches.

I wish the guys at blizzard stopped making so many patches when something works fine. It drives me nuts.

A quicker path to Burning Crusade / Lich King

[Sabalon]

Looking at the release notes, many things I noticed seem to be along the lines of "here...we'll help you get up to lvl 60 quicker." Mind you, some would have helped when I was playing, specifically the nerfing of some of the elites for soloists.

My read on it is most of the players are probably tooling around outland waiting for the 3.0 release. If you're trying to level up to 60+, you are stuck in westfall asking if anyone is running deadmines over and over, and you get a bunch of lvl7's to help :) But if you quickly get up to level 60, you can buy Burning Crusade, get to level 70 before Lich King comes out in a few months, and buy it too.

Having the lower instances drop more blues is nice though - probably mostly BoP - great time to be a disenchanter :)

Glad I sold all my stuff off and left my character standing naked in IronForge or this could be tempting. Then again...

Re:Would you like some Alterac Swiss with that whi

[fractoid]

Although not playing WoW is waaaay more expensive than the $15 a month I was paying. Since I quit a month ago I've spent well over $200 on Wii and PC games :( Before I started playing WoW I was spending $80-$100 a weekend on drinks while out clubbing. That dropped to $30-$40 a week for rum and coke, plus $5 a week for my subscription... massive win in terms of savings. Less contact with the ladies though... :P

Works fine on Leopard

[LanMan04]

WoW runs just fine on Leopard. In fact, there were some changes to the OpenGL code in Leopard that WoW can take advantage of, especially on multi-core/proc machines.

My old MDD 1x1.25GHz G4 (Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB) is running it right now, and it works better than on Tiger.

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[Exitar]

While others throw their life away trolling on /.

Blizzard Bullies?

[Qhue]

Note that the date of this patch was forseen and correctly predicted back in May as that is when Sony Online Entertainment announced that EQ2 : Rise of Kunark would be released on November 13th 2007. Does EQ2 pose any threat at all to Blizzard's 900 pound gorilla financial juggernaut? Not a chance. But that doesn't stop their marketing department from delaying content updates by a few months just to make sure that WoW has the biggest 'buzz' the week a competitor launches.

Ha!

[SatanicPuppy]

Jesus, you're a pally, and that's 99% of the problem right there. Speaking from experience, I win about 70% of my pvp fights with my druid, and about 10% with my pally, and both characters are endgame characters with mostly blue/purple gear.

People rant about how hard it is to kill a paladin, but the truth of it is, unless you're full retrib, and jacked to the gills with +crit and +spell damage, you're going to get murdered...You just can't do enough damage.

A rogue can deal enough damage to kill you four times over before you can kill them once, and they can disengage at will. Warlocks, Priests, Hunters, and Mages are all capable of killing you from a distance (Pursuit of Justice buff may change this BIG TIME, hello +15% run speed) and the sum total of your offensive punch is melee, so they can just stay at max range and pound you to death. Warriors tend to do more damage, but they're more beatable than most (fury spec excepted, of course =P). Shaman's just have more damage output than the pally, so you're at a negative there, and a smart Shammy will heal when you heal, negating a lot of your durability, and the goddamn earthbind totem will beat you more often than not by allowing them to keep the range open. Feral druids are nasty hard to beat; they'll jump you in kitty do some quick damage, then shift to bear and beat the crap out of you, and Balance druids have all the same issues as any other ranged caster, coupled with the fact that they're tough as nails in boomkin form.

Take heart in that the pally is the undisputed MASTA of pve, and accept that your primary pvp role is just to piss people off. I do far better in battleground and arena pvp as a prot or holy pally than as any other class. I can't kill anyone, but I never, ever, die.

About time

[eRAZOR2007]

It's about time they added guildbanks. People have been requesting this for years.

Re:WOW - It's So Cute!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Why don't you get a fucking job?" -Your mom