Facebook A Black Hole For Personal Info

Hugh Pickens writes "The NY Times has an article on how Facebook is so sticky it is nearly impossible to get loose. While the Web site offers users the option to deactivate their accounts, Facebook servers keep copies of the information in those accounts indefinitely. Many users who have contacted Facebook to request that their accounts be deleted have not succeeded in erasing their records from the network. 'It's like the Hotel California,' said Nipon Das, a user who tried unsuccessfully to delete his account. 'You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.' It took Mr. Das two months and several e-mail exchanges with Facebook's customer service representatives to erase most of his information from the site, which finally occurred after he sent an e-mail threatening legal action. But even after that, a reporter was able to find Mr. Das's empty profile on Facebook and successfully sent him an e-mail message through the network. Facebook's quiet archiving of information from deactivated accounts has increased concerns about the network's potential abuse of private data, especially in the wake of its fumbled Beacon advertising feature."

Comments

Good

[ShieldW0lf]

Here's hoping that this will in the end reveal that 99% of humans are freaks, that the loudest judgmental voices are actually the biggest hypocrites, and we can all get along better.

Fuck privacy. Here's to transparency and the death of hypocrisies!

Re:Good

[Captain Splendid]

Hey, when you get a minute, email me your home address. I want to go to your house and stare at you all day.

Note to mods: Don't bother modding this OT/flamebait/troll/stalker or whatever. I'm just continuing a conversation with parent that we've been having for a while, so don't bother wasting any points.

Re:Good

[Tony Hoyle]

'tis true.. we are all freaks in our own way. The more realize that the less we'll have people thinking there's something bad about them simply because they like to enjoy life.

Which probably means 'normal' isn't what the press would like you to think it is.

Re:Good

[Tribbin]

Yes, because one's facebook is a very accurate representation of the person who wrote it. No hypocrisy will be found there since the most active users of such sites find no importance in how the world perceive them!

Oh wait ...

Re:Good

[moondawg14]

If you haven't read "The Light of Other Days" by Arthur C. Clarke and Stephen Baxter, I suggest you do. It might become your new catechism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Light_of_Other_Days

Re:Good

[maxume]

Are you captain of the good ship Ridiculous?

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been going through your computer files. You must register as a sex offender immediately.

Re:Good

[Captain Splendid]

No, but I play him on TV.

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

the loudest judgmental voices are actually the biggest hypocrites

Fuck privacy.

I bet you think "irony" means "sort of like iron".

Re:Good

[mgblst]

Ha,ha,ha,ha....

Injokes are great.

I hope to have one, one day.

Re:Good

[phelix_da_kat]

So.. if 99% of humans are freaks, what does that make the remaining 1%?? :-P

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

As others will no doubt point out, Facebook is CIA backed -- do NOT expect your data to be erased, ever.

That said, they should really DEACTIVATE accounts... no reason for anyone to be able to see your profile, OR to continue to be able to contact you thru the site after you've "left."

Re:Good

[MRe_nl]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=75qXUfp4wtw/
obviously...

Re:Good

[B3ryllium]

Clearly, it makes them offspring of Jonathan Frakes.

Re:Good

[AmigaMMC]

Really? Wow! I thought I read all Stephen Baxter and I never even heard of "The Light of Other Days." I'll put it in my "to buy" list, thanks for the tip. Luca

Re:Good

[heteromonomer]

Why don't you practice what you preach/believe and leave the rest of us alone? Someone mod parent down.

Re:Good

[trolltalk.com]

So what do you propose the author ofthis story register as?

... or are there some things that we're all just are better off not knowing ?

Re:Good

[Joe_in_63640]

It's simple, Data is only as valuable as, and as long as - the data has integrity and is representative of a real-world application. - Want out? Change your info. Contaminate the data. Pollute the archives with near-accurate but fictional info. Change it often, anonymizing and obfuscating the truth. Change your zipcode. Change your e-mail address to a throwaway Yahoo! or Hotmail edress. Change your age to 11. Let them datamine. Privacy is a fading Illusion, but Heisenberg was right. Oh - and never forget to read the Fine Print BEFORE you sign up.

Re:Good

[moondawg14]

That's probably because these books are usually listed under ACC. It's one of these "Here, I had this Idea, why don't you (insert author here) go write it," books. If you look under "Clarke" in the local library you'll probably find a pile of them. They're usually pretty good!

Re:Good

[fastest fascist]

I wouldn't trust any fine print to begin with. Just assume whatever information you put online in a publicly accessible manner (read: someone other than you can view it) is out of your control. If there is even a single person you would not want to know something, and it really is important they do not know it, FFS, don't put that info on-line!

New Idea

[mfh]

I am starting a new website that will build an altar to the Social Insurance number. All you have to do is fill out this little form and give us all of your personal info, and we hang up your Social Insurance number, then calculate your relevance compared to everyone else who uses the service. THIS IS A FREE SERVICE! If you sign up now, you also get a free password check, where you give us your username and password to every website and bank you use and we provide you with your security relevance score! FREE FOR THE NEXT 50 USERS!

Visit our website right now to enroll for free!

Re:New Idea

[TripMaster Monkey]

Flamebait? Nice to know the mods can still afford their crack.

Re:New Idea

[sayfawa]

Funny, but also a bit scary, as just this morning I read about this:

Tech giants Microsoft, IBM, Google and Yahoo have joined the board of the Open ID Foundation which aims to streamline login systems across the web.

The Foundation wants to bring about a system that could mean one ID acts as a guarantor of a person's identity across all the sites they have signed up for.

Oh good, so I only have to have one online identity compromised in order for them all to be compromised. I hope it's not just us slashdotters who think this is a bad idea.

Re:New Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, where's the link?

Re:New Idea

[Ed Avis]

Heh, your social insurance number site reminds me of one of Jerry Lee Cooper's great computational achievements:

Just the other day, I helped an enterprise client do some work in MSSQL - they had to import LITERALLY DOZENS of customer records from an SQL database into a spreadsheet. We managed to do this quite easily by clicking the mouse for a few hours together, setting the ODBC drivers up using heaps of helpful GUI tools. We then managed to get the spreadsheet to AUTOMATICALLY TOTAL all of the postcodes for the customer records, and even calculate the AVERAGE of the postcodes.
Try doing THAT with your little shareware database !! Hmmph !

Re:New Idea

[maxume]

Or, you can just use lots of different Open IDs and maintain your own status quo.

For most users, having their primary email address compromised leads to the same situation, so the transition to Open ID won't really change anything, except it allows you and your Open ID provider to pick the level of authentication, rather than the provider of whatever service you want to use.

Re:New Idea

[sayfawa]

Good point.

Re:New Idea

[ColdWetDog]

Flamebait? Nice to know the mods can still afford their crack.

They wish. It's really the crappy coffee. Let's replace it with Folger's crystals and see if Slashdot notices.

Re:New Idea

[halcyon1234]

If you can create features where I rank my social insurance number against celebrity's horoscopes, and then play hangman with my bank account information against friends to see who is better, then I'm totally in!

Re:New Idea

[FesterDaFelcher]

I hope it's not just us slashdotters who think this is a bad idea.

Thanks for speaking for all of us, but there are a lot of slashdotters who don't think this is such a bad idea. Having your password (which for most users is the same across all services) out of a providers hands can be a very good thing.

Re:New Idea

[eihab]

From my fragile understanding of OpenID, is might actually be a Good Thing(TM).

I believe it works like this:
1) You have your own server/domain name (or rely on a 3rd party)
2) You setup Open ID on it, and create accounts like me@mydomain.com
3) You visit site A which utilizes Open ID, and login
4) Site A calls your server with the data/token over encrypted connection asking if it's you
5) Your server responds with "OK, go ahead"
6) Site A fullfils your request (give you candy, or whatever it is you were looking for)

This is a very brief, off-the-top / what I can remember post.

The idea of decentralized authentication network sounds pretty good actually, there are other "cool" points to Open ID, but I'm on my lunch break and I'm short on time.

Feel free to correct me if I'm way off.

Re:New Idea

[lachlan76]

If it's compromised, you can just turn it off. The OpenID system is decentralised, and each site sends a request off to the user's server asking it to authenticate by whatever means it considers necessary. The site *never* has access to your password, and you never have to give it to any site. You could make it send off some sort of request to your desktop and pop up a password box on an OpenGL cube if you really wanted to be sure that it wasn't a cleverly-disguised phishing attempt.

Easy Solution

[saterdaies]

When you want to leave, start adding bogus data. Friend people you don't know. Change the bio data. Tag yourself in pictures you aren't in. Basically, generate random activity. Defriend your actual friends. Change your name. After a time, it becomes very difficult to determine what is real and what is fake.

Re:Easy Solution

[Tribbin]

Yes, so now my would-have-been boss thinks that actually I'm a 15 year old girl who does not know when to use CaPiTaL lEtTeRs.

Re:Easy Solution

[VirusEqualsVeryYes]

The definition of "easy" seems to have changed since last I checked.

Re:Easy Solution

[Foolicious]

This is a good idea and would indeed be effective. But why? Why should I have to go to these lengths to drop an account? Why can't they just drop it? A technical reason? A human ignorance reason? A human stubbornness reason? Why?

Re:Easy Solution

[Thelasko]

It's even easier. Simply violate all of the terms of service as possible. Upload images that are "inappropriate" and have your friends report you. Your info will be removed very quickly.

Re:Easy Solution

[Anonymous Coward]

I do that with legit businesses who feel it ok to send me advertising if they call it a newsletter, in spite of the fact that I clearly say "No" when I made a purchase half a year back (aka spammers). It's always "Log on to our website if you want to get off our e-mail address". I always remove all information and if it's not optional I put in fake information. I also add them to my list of people I can't trust, so I won't make the mistake of buying from the again.

Re:Easy Solution

[mcmonkey]

When you want to leave, start adding bogus data. Friend people you don't know. Change the bio data. Tag yourself in pictures you aren't in.

Leaving Facebook sounds a lot like what I did when I joined Facebook.

Re:Easy Solution

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what I've been doing with my /. account for years.

P.S. See you at bowling leauge tonight, Bob!

Re:Easy Solution

[Blakey Rat]

That's the easy solution?

When you want to leave, start adding bogus data. Friend people you don't know. Change the bio data. Tag yourself in pictures you aren't in. Basically, generate random activity. Defriend your actual friends. Change your name. After a time, it becomes very difficult to determine what is real and what is fake.

Or they could just provide a "delete my account" link like everyone else.

Re:Easy Solution

[Thelasko]

To the person that modded my previous post funny:
I was serious.

Re:Easy Solution

[Tom9729]

Better solution is to just argue with them over email, and threaten to do ridiculous things like take it to the media.

That's how I got Facebook to supposedly delete my account.

Re:Easy Solution

[Moonpie Madness]

Seriously funny!

But really, they keep your information, and probably sell your information, even if they k-line your account.

They probably also don't cancel accounts for a lot of offensive pics.

Personally, I think you should never enter accurate information into these services. I never give them the right birthday.

I guess most will still use their name, but if everything else is inaccurate, big deal. And if all the info is inaccurate, there will be less incentive to harvest it.

Re:Easy Solution

[WK2]

I think he meant to say, "easier."

Re:Easy Solution

[TooMuchToDo]

Have an automated tool login as you and pull data as fast as possible down from them. Someone with over 5000 "friends" did this using a Plaxo tool in beta, and got the boot.

Re:Easy Solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless you have an extremely rare name they can't prove it was actually your account (and you can change you name on Facebook).

The one lesson

[Anonymous Coward]

Thus, the one true lesson about internet privacy: once it's out there, it's out there FOREVER.

Be smart about what you put online and for pete's sake don't let anyone take naked photos of you, 'cuz they *will* end up online, and it will be *hilarious*.

Re:The one lesson

[Farmer Tim]

...don't let anyone take naked photos of you, 'cuz they *will* end up online, and it will be *hilarious*.

I was hoping for "awe inspiring", or at least "impressive". Way to dent a guy's ego...

Re:The one lesson

[MidnightBrewer]

Be smart about what you put online and for pete's sake don't let anyone take naked photos of you, 'cuz they *will* end up online, and it will be *hilarious*.

Not for us who have to look, ugh!

Re:The one lesson

[z0idberg]

Asshole!
Now all the hot 18 year old chicks that read slashdot are that much less likely to let someone take naked pics of them and post them on the internet!

Re:The one lesson

[Farmer Tim]

Now all the hot 18 year old chicks that read slashdot...

Wow, that's some parallel universe you come from! Where's the interdimensional portal???

I prefer "Roach Motel for Data"

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what I've been calling Outlook/Exchange for years, after a few extremely fun (read: painful) experiences migrating away from it. There are better tools now (mostly made by the companies whose products you'd migrate to), but there are still quite a few times when I have needed to get data out and found the export functions extremely lacking compared to the import functions.

While catchy, "Hotel California" doesn't quite have the same negative connotations as calling something a Roach Motel, IMHO.

Re:I prefer "Roach Motel for Data"

[shinma]

You don't know much about the Hotel California, do you? It was also known as Camarillo State Mental Hospital.

Re:I prefer "Roach Motel for Data"

[TortiusMaximus]

>>You don't know much about the Hotel California, do you? Neither do you, it would appear: http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/hotel.asp

Re:I prefer "Roach Motel for Data"

[thomasdz]

>>You don't know much about the Hotel California, do you? Neither do you, it would appear: http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/hotel.asp

Yes, but the fireworks factory and "Wurn Snell of Colitas" story is completely true.

Thomas Dz.

Google

[rdradar]

Kind of same thing with Google. Even their file system works in a way that it takes years for something really get deleted (your youtube videos etc). They archive everything.

Facebook Terms of Service

[TripMaster Monkey]

The Facebook Terms of Service can be found here.

Here is an interesting excerpt:

When you post User Content to the Site, you authorize and direct us to make such copies thereof as we deem necessary in order to facilitate the posting and storage of the User Content on the Site. By posting User Content to any part of the Site, you automatically grant, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant, to the Company an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, worldwide license (with the right to sublicense) to use, copy, publicly perform, publicly display, reformat, translate, excerpt (in whole or in part) and distribute such User Content for any purpose, commercial, advertising, or otherwise, on or in connection with the Site or the promotion thereof, to prepare derivative works of, or incorporate into other works, such User Content, and to grant and authorize sublicenses of the foregoing. You may remove your User Content from the Site at any time. If you choose to remove your User Content, the license granted above will automatically expire, however you acknowledge that the Company may retain archived copies of your User Content. Facebook does not assert any ownership over your User Content; rather, as between us and you, subject to the rights granted to us in these Terms, you retain full ownership of all of your User Content and any intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights associated with your User Content.

Re:Facebook Terms of Service

[Lord Pillage]

Since the user retains all proprietary rights to their content, couldn't they just sue Facebook for holding copyrighted material on their servers? It seems to me that this contract is in conflict with the law and as we all know you can't hold a contract that implies one needs to break the law. (e.g. I'll pay for the 5 pounds of crack, and if you sell it for me I'll give you half the profits) Or am I wrong? IANAL

Re:Facebook Terms of Service

[epee1221]

The TOS says that the user gives Facebook a license to use that material.

Re:Facebook Terms of Service

[TripMaster Monkey]

Here's the rub:

You may remove your from the Site at any time. If you choose to remove your User Content, the license granted above will automatically expire, however you acknowledge that the Company may retain archived copies of your User Content.

The legal question here is: what is the definition of an "archive", as the term is used by Facebook?

Re:Facebook Terms of Service

[Lord Pillage]

Quoted from the parent of my original post:

If you choose to remove your User Content, the license granted above will automatically expire

So in fact the license expires as soon as you remove the content. From reading some of the other posts here, it seems that Facebook tries to make a difference between "removing" material and "deactivating" material. I guess if all you do is "deactivate" you account, you're technically not removing it and thus Facebook retains its license, so one must remove their material. If Facebook then retains that information, I would say they are then in violate of copyright.

Re:Facebook Terms of Service

[192939495969798999]

"publicly perform"... that's scary. So they basically can take anyone's picture and use it to advertise the site anywhere they want and they don't have to pay for it... wow.

Re:Facebook Terms of Service

[coolGuyZak]

In my experience, that's pretty standard for social networking sites.

Re:Facebook Terms of Service

[mattbee]

Stuff the agreement - in the UK we have the Data Protection Act which means if you want them to delete all of your personally-identifiable data, they are obliged to do it by law. Would be interested to know if anyone has actually tried this yet, as it could break their database quite a bit, and remove lots of *other people's* photographs (or at the very least, the tagging on those photos that identified the person who'd ask for the DPA deletion).

Re:Facebook Terms of Service

[mollymoo]

Does the DPA apply to Facebook, given they're not based in the UK?

Re:Facebook Terms of Service

[mattbee]

Apparently it's not cut & dried but it doesn't seem like anyone has pushed them on it.

Re:Facebook Terms of Service

[op12]

If you though that was interesting, you'll find Google's TOS very interesting, as it's similarly worded but also seemingly broader in scope of what they can do with your content:

11. Content licence from you

11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive licence to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. This licence is for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the Additional Terms of those Services.

11.2 You agree that this licence includes a right for Google to make such Content available to other companies, organizations or individuals with whom Google has relationships for the provision of syndicated services, and to use such Content in connection with the provision of those services.

11.3 You understand that Google, in performing the required technical steps to provide the Services to our users, may (a) transmit or distribute your Content over various public networks and in various media; and (b) make such changes to your Content as are necessary to conform and adapt that Content to the technical requirements of connecting networks, devices, services or media. You agree that this licence shall permit Google to take these actions.

11.4 You confirm and warrant to Google that you have all the rights, power and authority necessary to grant the above licence.

Re:Facebook Terms of Service

[TheNinjaroach]

When I "disabled" Facebook a few months ago, I pasted that exact quote into their comment box that asked why I was leaving.

Try it, you won't regret it.

Re:Facebook Terms of Service

[epee1221]

Interesting. I must have missed that.
The TOS also says the license is perpetual and irrevocable, so now I'm just confused.

Re:Facebook Terms of Service

[xaxa]

From the second page (I know!) of the article:

The thing they offer advertisers is that they can connect to groups of people. I can see why they wouldnt want to throw away anyones information, but theres a conflict with privacy, said Alan Burlison, 46, a British software engineer who succeeded in deleting his account only after he complained in the British press, to the countrys Information Commissioners Office and to the TRUSTe organization, an online privacy network that has certified Facebook.

It's been done

[eebra82]

I remember reading a story about a guy who had a lot of activity at Facebook. Deactivation of the account is the basic way of saying good bye, but very ineffective since everything but your profile left. Here's what you must do to get rid of your account, THEN mail Facebook and ask for complete removal:

1. Delete your photo
2. Delete Comments and messages you wrote
3. Delete your friends from your friends list.
4. Leave all your networks and groups you have joined.
5. Delete all your photo albums.

It's obviously a ridiculous way of keeping as many users as possible. Anyone with just a few comments and photos will not bother. Anyone with thousands will obviously not have time to do it. By the way, here's what Facebook say in the Privacy Policy on changing/removing information:

Access and control over most personal information on Facebook is readily available through the profile editing tools. Facebook users may modify or delete any of their profile information at any time by logging into their account. Information will be updated immediately. Individuals who wish to deactivate their Facebook account may do so on the My Account page. Removed information may persist in backup copies for a reasonable period of time but will not be generally available to members of Facebook. Where you make use of the communication features of the service to share information with other individuals on Facebook, however, (e.g., sending a personal message to another Facebook user) you generally cannot remove such communications.

Re:It's been done

[TripMaster Monkey]

Here's what you must do to get rid of your account, THEN mail Facebook and ask for complete removal:

1. Delete your photo
2. Delete Comments and messages you wrote
3. Delete your friends from your friends list.
4. Leave all your networks and groups you have joined.
5. Delete all your photo albums.

Sounds like an awful lot of work. Here's an alternate suggestion...also a bit of work, but definitely more enjoyable.

From the Facebook Terms of Service:

In addition, you agree not to use the Service or the Site to:

* harvest or collect email addresses or other contact information of other users from the Service or the Site by electronic or other means for the purposes of sending unsolicited emails or other unsolicited communications;
* use the Service or the Site in any unlawful manner or in any other manner that could damage, disable, overburden or impair the Site;
* use automated scripts to collect information from or otherwise interact with the Service or the Site;
* upload, post, transmit, share, store or otherwise make available any content that we deem to be harmful, threatening, unlawful, defamatory, infringing, abusive, inflammatory, harassing, vulgar, obscene, fraudulent, invasive of privacy or publicity rights, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;
* upload, post, transmit, share, store or otherwise make available any videos other than those of a personal nature that: (i) are of you or your friends, (ii) are taken by you or your friends, or (iii) are original art or animation created by you or your friends;
* register for more than one User account, register for a User account on behalf of an individual other than yourself, or register for a User account on behalf of any group or entity;
* impersonate any person or entity, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent yourself, your age or your affiliation with any person or entity;
* upload, post, transmit, share or otherwise make available any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, solicitations, promotional materials, "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation;
* upload, post, transmit, share, store or otherwise make publicly available on the Site any private information of any third party, including, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, Social Security numbers and credit card numbers;
* solicit personal information from anyone under 18 or solicit passwords or personally identifying information for commercial or unlawful purposes;
* upload, post, transmit, share or otherwise make available any material that contains software viruses or any other computer code, files or programs designed to interrupt, destroy or limit the functionality of any computer software or hardware or telecommunications equipment;
* intimidate or harass another;
* upload, post, transmit, share, store or otherwise make available content that would constitute, encourage or provide instructions for a criminal offense, violate the rights of any party, or that would otherwise create liability or violate any local, state, national or international law;
* use or attempt to use another's account, service or system without authorization from the Company, or create a false identity on the Service or the Site.
* upload, post, transmit, share, store or otherwise make available content that, in the sole judgment of Company, is objectionable or which rest

Re:It's been done

[kalirion]

upload, post, transmit, share, store or otherwise make available content that would constitute, encourage or provide instructions for a criminal offense, violate the rights of any party, or that would otherwise create liability or violate any local, state, national or international law

Haha, is there anything that could be posted without violating some law somewhere?

Re:It's been done

[bazorg]

ah, yes... the goatse technique...

Re:It's been done

[silverraindog]

or you can just create a secondary account with a different email address, add your main account email address to the contact on the secondary account the first one is deleted then you just email them and ask them to delete it.

Re:It's been done

[0100010001010011]

The reason that this is done is that when you 'deactivate' you can 'reactivate'. That's why they don't delete the information, in case you want to 'reactivate' your account.

I was dealing with a minor facebook addiction last year and even after I deactivated my account I'd get bored after a while and reactivate it. I did exactly what you said. Deleted all my friends, changed all my personal information. Changed my e-mail address to a 10 minute e-mail and then deactivated

Surprisingly when there's nothing to look at, facebook is quite boring.

Re:It's been done

[Anonymous Coward]

ah, but won't they just ban you and still profit from peddling your private information to whatever advertising company they're working with?

Re:It's been done

[mikael]

It's obviously a ridiculous way of keeping as many users as possible. Anyone with just a few comments and photos will not bother. Anyone with thousands will obviously not have time to do it.

Looks like there is a market for a online web application that would allow you to delete/scramble an existing facebook entry.

Re:It's been done

[orra]

The solution is simple. While being careful to stop short of outright illegality, violate as many of these prohibitions as possible, as often as you can manage it. Then send abusive email to the Facebook sysadmins, mocking them for their inability to stop you. Account deletion should follow rather quickly. ^_^

Unfortunately not.

I know this from personal experience: ;)
If you "abuse the service" e.g. by adding too many people as friends in a short period of time, they deactivate your account. As somebody else pointed on out this page, that's not the same as deletion. You can't even log back in to delete all that information they have on you!

Sometimes people will find your deactivated profile in search results.

Ditch facebook!

[FuzzyDaddy]

I'd like to see, if not an angry mob with pitchforks in front of Facebook's offices, at least an exodus of users from the service. We've lost so much privacy in the last 20 years with so little say in the matter.

What could it do for the cause of privacy if people all left facebook over their various privacy abuses?

And what would it do if no one seemed to care?

Re:Ditch facebook!

[Anonymous Coward]

In case you haven't noticed... no one does care. That is... no one in the rest of the world. My brother and his friends (late 20s, some in their 30s) have just gotten into Facebook and think it's the greatest thing. Even if I told them about this story and explained that they could practically never remove their data from the site... "so what?" would be the response, I reckon.

Of course that's only on small group of examples - but the rest of the world doesn't share the same privacy concerns as many here do. If you ask them though, of course they care - but would they do something about it or help to fix the issues? Nope.

Re:Ditch facebook!

[FuzzyDaddy]

It's becoming an issue with real consequences. I've told the story before of the Argosy psychology student who was expelled because she was leading substance abuse support groups for her internship, and posted tales of her weekend drunken exploits online.

The fact that this record is permanent adds to the importance of being careful what you put on line. My oldest is 8, and when she starts getting into this, it's a lesson I hope I can teach her. The tactic I've heard with parents who do allow their children have an online presence is to tell them "I will be looking at your profile every day. Don't put up anything you don't want me to see.". It makes them realize, on a deep level, that this stuff isn't private.

In case you haven't noticed... no one does care.

Sadly, I've noticed. I think you're right. I just wish it wasn't so. It's hard to see something so clearly when most other people don't... it makes me feel like a Ron Paul supporter or something.

Re:Ditch facebook!

[xaxa]

Do make sure you tell her you're looking. My mum tries to read my Livejournal once a week -- I know it's her because the theme images are hosted on my server -- she reads it more than me! She's never admitted to it though, even when I changed the random picture I had on the "This Journal Is Friends Only" to "Fuck Off You Prying Bitch" for a month. I'm 21, she's been checking the journal since I was 18.

Re:Ditch facebook!

[FuzzyDaddy]

It's important to tell your kids you're doing this. The goal is not to spy; rather, it's to teach her to think about what she posts BEFORE she does so. Knowing that I'll be looking at it will (hopefully) do this.

On the other hand, I wouldn't read her diary without her knowledge.

Re:Ditch facebook!

[RealGrouchy]

Has someone's life been destroyed by the inability to delete their Facebook account? If so, can we somehow get Maury or Oprah to cover it?

- RG>

Re:Ditch facebook!

[xaxa]

It's not the only thing my mum found about me online (or in real life, for that matter! I'm good at hiding stuff now). I borrowed her laptop a few years ago and found bookmarks in her browser to the "Search for all posts by X" on a few forums I posted on when I was about 14-17, my friends' blogs/websites and a Google search for my name -- I now only comment anonymously on non-private blogs. It explained why she was always asking me if I was revising for exams -- I was posting to forums (and reading /.) but I didn't think she knew that, so I lied. If she'd been direct and told me she'd found it I'd have been much more likely to stop! The result is that since I left home for university I've told her about 5% of what I really do, since I always have the impression that she's prying, even on the phone, and she makes me feel really uncomfortable. Very similar to the time someone was stalking me.

I'm not sure whose side I'm on!

[obstalesgone]

When you hand over the info to Facebook, you agree to let them have it. Why on earth would they be expected to delete it?

I agree that it seems unusual, and that maybe it's an unanticipated side-effect of giving your info to a social networking site that your data may persist forever, but I really don't think they're doing anything immoral.

Re:I'm not sure whose side I'm on!

[kellyb9]

You're signing up for a service not a military draft. I, for one, think facebook exists to serve my purposes not their own. They obviously forgot that somewhere along the way.

Re:I'm not sure whose side I'm on!

[Anonymous Coward]

I, for one, think facebook exists to serve my purposes not their own.

You are wrong, and are either stupid or naive to have ever thought that.

Re:I'm not sure whose side I'm on!

[obstalesgone]

This is nothing like a military draft. In a military draft, you exchange your military service for citizenship. Your facebook TOS (which I view as a contract) declares that you give them permission to use your personal information forever in exchange for allowing you to play scrabulous.

It might be a really crappy deal.. but it's a deal. I think that half a million dollars is a ridiculous price for an automobile, but once I drive it off the lot, that argument isn't likely to hold up in court.

I do find it curious that this generation honestly thinks that it is the duty of all corporate entities to serve them without compensation. Facebook tells you exactly what you're exchanging when you sign up. They want the right to use any information you provide for all of time. They say so up-front.

Would it be nice for them to sacrifice their income and delete the records that they have negotiated for en masse?

Yes. It sure would.

Re:I'm not sure whose side I'm on!

[Lurker2288]

"I, for one, think facebook exists to serve my purposes not their own. They obviously forgot that somewhere along the way."

Is it really possible to be that naive, or are you just pulling my leg? Take an economics class and think some more about this. Here's a little Adam Smith to help you along: "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."

Re:I'm not sure whose side I'm on!

[STrinity]

I, for one, think facebook exists to serve my purposes not their own.

But Facebook is under no obligation to fulfill your delusions. They're a business -- their obligation is to the stockholders, not the users.

Classmates

[PalmKiller]

Classmates.com is that way too. I finally just went in and changed my named to Yo Mamma, and my email to something like as*hole@f*ckoff.com. Finally I was free I thought, but later I had to dig deeper into my profile and change some other things, finally it died I guess...not really sure as I had already added classmates.com to my spam blacklist.

hating facebook

[boxlight]

I'm really starting to hate facebook. Friends have posted photos I want to see, other friends have commented on those photos and I want to read them. But I don't see any notifications on my main news feed about any of this. But I get tons of crap about vampires and I seem to get notified about people I don't know becoming friends with people I hardly know.

Can someone suggest a cleaner, more useful alternative to facebook that I can try and talk all my friends into joining?

Re:hating facebook

[Mushdot]

Here's the best one for all your local friends to join: The Pub. It's great, you get to talk to each other face to face! I joined this group when I was about 15, and I've enjoyed it ever since. Only real friends join my group and we can buy each other REAL drinks.

If you like you can write on the wall, but I don't think the publican will be too happy.

Re:hating facebook

[FredDC]

Can someone suggest a cleaner, more useful alternative to facebook that I can try and talk all my friends into joining?

Uh, how about meeting your friends at a *real* place?

Re:hating facebook

[kaos07]

I have one: Life.

Re:hating facebook

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a clue: Not everyone I want to keep in contact with lives next to me.

I was born and raised in Missouri and now live in Delaware. Not so easy to just go to "The Pub" is it? When close family, that I cant just visit on a whim, has 'moments' happen, what do I do? Something like facebook (Or as the poster asked, something else) comes in mighty handy.

Even then... what if I don't feel like going out to the pub? Or I work on a different schedule than my family (I work graveyard, family doesn't. Makes it hard to simply 'meet up') yet more reasons to have some online way to mingle.

How about even more reasons? What about online friends? Me and my GF have tons of friends thru online gaming. Friends thru games like Everquest, WoW, etc. People we've never met face to face yet still have good friendships with. We live in Delaware. One of our friends is on a boat doing his time in the Navy. Another best friend lives in Ontario. Another in Idaho.

"Go outside", "The Pub", etc... not everything is black and white. I spend time with friends/family near me. Maybe if you pulled your head outta your ass you'd realize that not everyone lives at home or stays within 30 minutes of their friends/family

Again... remove head from ass, and stop treating all situations the same.

Re:hating facebook

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a great idea, just send me the money for all the plane tickets so that my friends in New Hampshire, Connecticut, North Carolina, Ohio, Colorado, Michigan, and Hawaii can come meet me in Virginia!

Re:hating facebook

[Mushdot]

I was trying to make a joke, but did cover myself for a response like yours:

"Here's the best one for all your local friends to join".

Re:hating facebook

[Eli Gottlieb]

You live outside America, don't you? Here, those of us under 21 (highest drinking age in the fucking world!) aren't even allowed into a pub.

Sunday night my friends and I needed to get into the cold as we waited for a ride home from a concert. We tried ducking into a cocktail bar, only to find that we needed to prove our age as 21 just to be there. Why? "Sorry guys, I'm not going to lose my liquor license for letting you guys in."

It's not just illogical, it's immoral. How can you make the drinking age more important than letting people in out of the single-digit Fahrenheit cold?

Re:hating facebook

[Anonymous Coward]

>> Can someone suggest a cleaner, more useful alternative to facebook that I can try and talk all my friends into joining?

That's why they all moved from myspace to facebook.

Just wait another six months. There'll be another Hot New Social Networking Site(TM) for you to give your gmail password to.

Re:hating facebook

[Meostro]

Disclaimer - I work for this place, so this probably sounds like a marketing pitch.

Plaxo Pulse is just about what you're looking for. We don't have vampires or zombies, and we're not about friend-whoring.

<marketing hooey>
"It's meant to be a better way for you to stay in touch with the people you actually know and care about - your family, your real-world friends, and the people you know from business. Pulse makes it easy for you to see what they're creating and sharing online - their blogs, the photos they're uploading, their restaurant reviews, and so much more."
</marketing hooey>

And the most important part: We are dedicated to the notion that your address book, your friends list, and your content belong to you, not to us."

We're not a walled garden, so you can take your stuff with you when you want to (we sync and export, and publish RSS). We also let you use what you already use (blog, Flickr, Yelp, whatever), and just collect it together to share with whoever you like. You can also choose who you want to share with, so your friends won't see the karaoke pictures from your family reunion, and your parents won't see the pictures you take of your friends.

Re:hating facebook

[CodeBuster]

Do your friends play Pitch Penny or other pub games as well? There really aren't very many good English style pubs here in America, particularly on the west coast where the beach bar reigns supreme, and it is even more rare to find a well furnished pub with traditional English pub games...sigh.

Re:hating facebook

[Surt]

This can be challenging for geographically diverse friends.

Re:hating facebook

[Anonymous Coward]

I use that one too but every so often I experience unexplained data and memory loss and seem to wake up having made friends I didn't know I had and find I can't remember their damn user name!

Re:hating facebook

[Mushdot]

I used to go play Crib on 'games' night down my local which was great - lots of old people in flat caps playing dominoes, card games and darts. We generally play pool or darts when out, but usually game variations like Killer so everyone can be involved so I don't think you could call that traditional!

We're lucky in that most pubs over here will have at least a dartboard and a pack of cards behind the bar and there's still plenty of traditional pubs with a full compliment of games if you look hard enough. I was in a pub in Edinburgh a while back which had its own skittle alley inside!

It's funny you should mention Pitch Penny - I've never played the proper pub game but we used to play 'tinks' at school where you throw coins as close to a wall as possible. Whoever gets closest keeps the coins - a great way to make some money for sweets.

Find a quiet local, take down some cards, dominoes and start playing once a week or something. You'll soon attract interest!

Re:hating facebook

[xaxa]

I've never before heard of pitch penny, but I used to play Penny Rugby at school -- most of the guys did sometimes, if we were bored and it was raining outside. You put a 2p coin (or £2, but that's harder to control) on the edge of a desk, then you can push it with the back of your hand towards the other side. You then have two more taps (with your fingernails) to try and get it balanced on the opposite edge of the table. If you do, you flip it into the air and catch it. Then you spin it on the desk and try and catch it between your thumbs. If you catch it, your opponent makes goalposts using their fingers (I can't remember how) and you can flip it through.

It got much more difficult in rooms where old square-cornered desks were replaced by plastic ones with curved edges.

Re:hating facebook

[xaxa]

He said Edinburgh in another post, the UK drinking age is 18. You can go into a pub from age 16 (alone), but you can only buy soft drinks or shandy (half beer, half lemonade). But accompanied by an adult there's no lower limit, I expect I went into a pub as a baby more than once! When I was 3 to about 6 I remember going to family-friendly pubs in the early evening, I'd drink orange squash (concentrated orange juice remade with water, it's cheap) and have a packet of crisps i.e. potato chips. Many pubs in the countryside have stuff for children -- a swing, slide, other play equipment -- and benches outside for parents. When I was tall enough I started playing pool with my dad (if the pub was mostly empty and no one else wanted to play, it would be impolite to keep kids in a busy pub when there's people who would prefer they were in another room or the garden). I think I was meant to be 14 before I was allowed "at the bar" even with my dad -- i.e. standing by the bar, but that would be a condition in the license for the pub, i.e. specific only to that pub. There was a family lounge too, with no age limits.

Re:hating facebook

[syousef]

Here's the best one for all your local friends to join: The Pub.

But if I go to the local pub then change my mind and decide I didn't really want to go there in the first place, people won't comply with my wishes to remove me from their memory. They may recall who my friends are, who my spouse is or who I went home with when I got sloshed, my childhood stories...everything! Once that information is in place, gossip means that the publican will know everything about me. He may even sell or market that information to others and there's not a thing I can do about it.

There's really only one solution. Never socialize. Ever! I think we should begin by organizing a protest against all pubs right away.

Re:hating facebook

[STrinity]

Where I live, "local" friends might live up to thirty, forty miles away. A bit of a trip for a drink.

Re:hating facebook

[popmaker]

Well, then you'll actually have something to talk about when you meet.

Re:hating facebook

[AySz88]

Here's the best one for all your local friends to join: The Pub. And they'll get cirrhosis, you insensitive clod!
(:P)

Re:hating facebook

[TooMuchToDo]

Your interface could use some cleanup. A lot of it feels disconnected. A cross between Facebook and LinkedIn would work well I think.

And how do you delete a SLASHDOT account?

[Nooface]

Oh, that's right...you cant't.

Re:And how do you delete a SLASHDOT account?

[betterunixthanunix]

Funny in this context? Yes. Seriously though, Slashdot has a lot less information about its users than Facebook. You don't have real names, or pictures with people's real names, or graphs of who knows who and when they met, or anything to that effect on Slashdot. Using my Slashdot account or posting history, I'd be impressed if you could figure out where I live or go to school to within less than 300 miles; compare with Facebook, which has my real name and the name and location of my school.

Not to be a fanboy.

Re:And how do you delete a SLASHDOT account?

[Daimanta]

You dare to criticise Slashdot?! For that, your account will be deleted.

Re:And how do you delete a SLASHDOT account?

[kellyb9]

and how do you delete a SLASHDOT account? Who'd want to?

Re:And how do you delete a SLASHDOT account?

[Kjella]

Perhaps you have your slashdot account so compartmentalized from everything else that it doesn't matter to you, but it doesn't really take much to somewhere, somehow link it with your real identity. I know that somewhere in those 6000 comments I've probably made a lot of references that possibly when put together could be enough to ID me. Conversely, some of the people in real life knows my slashdot ID and if they open the door on that end it all gets pinned on me. And that doesn't take into account all the people that have already willingly linked their slashdot ID to a real life persona. So I think there's plenty good reason to want to delete a slashdot account, if I was starting to get rich and famous I'd want to delete mine just in case.

Re:And how do you delete a SLASHDOT account?

[coolGuyZak]

I wanted to, some 3 or so years ago, when I switched nicks. Why? I'd established a reasonable reputation with my previous account, and didn't want anyone to abuse the rep*.

--
* Plus, I like to keep my online aliases "clean", by deleting the ones I no longer use. I don't mind leaving the information up, so long as the account is inaccessible.

Re:And how do you delete a SLASHDOT account?

[betterunixthanunix]

That much is true, and I have made references to the state that I live in. Still, it is an entirely different level of data collection. Facebook tracks everything, and you MUST be logged in to even view the site. Slashdot is accessible to everyone, even when they aren't logged in, and there is no requirement that you supply any actual information about yourself. I do see your point, though.

Re:And how do you delete a SLASHDOT account?

[Blakey Rat]

How is it any different? Sure, Slashdot doesn't encourage you *as much* to enter personal information, but it still contains fields for all of it on the account, and it includes a journal feature.

Now I do understand that deleting a current account makes their archive tricky-- how do you deal with the posts that user made? (My guess would be they could just convert them to Anonymous Coward or Deleted Account) But that's no excuse for not offering the feature.

Any website that is capable of storing any personal information along with an account should have the feature to delete that account, period. Don't give Slashdot a pass just because it's an older site than Facebook, and don't give Slashcode developers a pass on it because implementing it is hard.

Re:And how do you delete a SLASHDOT account?

[Elyscape]

* Plus, I like to keep my online aliases "clean", by deleting the ones I no longer use. I don't mind leaving the information up, so long as the account is inaccessible.

1. Change your password to some long, unholy concoction of symbols and letters.
2. Forget the new password.
3. ?????
4. PROFIT!

Re:And how do you delete a SLASHDOT account?

[RealGrouchy]

Not only that, but you don't need a Slashdot account to view the content on Slashdot. (Reminds me of the Anonymous vs. CoS debate, actually...)

I really hope that Facebook doesn't change this policy, because it reinforces my complete lack of desire/temptation to start using (much less join) Facebook.

- RG>

Re:And how do you delete a SLASHDOT account?

[Anonymous Coward]

Signal11,

You're previous reputation was not "reasonable".

I've experienced this

[Mr. Samuel]

Some time last year I emailed Facebook about having my account deleted, and they sent me a reply (probably a form letter) about how to "deactivate" my account. I'm concerned that Facebook is holding my personal info hostage. I don't care what the TOS says, how can such things be legal?

Re:I've experienced this

[kaos07]

It's legal because all the information was in the Terms and Conditions that you should have read before you ticked the box and clicked "Accept".

Should have read a bit closer, eh?

Re:I've experienced this

[Aetuneo]

Holding it hostage? Is Facebook threatening to send it to people if you don't give them money? If so, then yes, it's not legal. If not, well ... keeping data which is given to you is legal, as long as you don't do anything with it that you've agreed not to. For example, I could tell you that I will sue you if you do not erase all memory of this post, but there isn't any fool-proof way for you to do that without damaging the rest of your mind (alternatively, if I knew that you kept a journal and had recorded this post in it - which a better analogy - I could sue you to remove all mention of me from the journal). Because of all of the backups that Facebook (probably) takes, it amounts to the same thing. After all, Corporations are legally people. Immortal sociopaths, yes, but still people.

What a business model

[Osurak]

I'm pretty impressed with their business model. To get the most out of a social network, you have to plug in as much data about yourself as possible, which point Facebook can turn around and either sell that information sell to advertisers, or use it to advertise to you directly. Even if you realize what's going on, you can't leave without feeling socially ostracized. And finally, even if you get past that, they won't delete your stuff anyway.

Really, the only thing you can do to throw a wrench in the works is to falsify the entire contents of your profile. It would be very interesting to see if you could use that to influence the behavior of advertisers. For example, I wonder what would happen if every account suddenly added "Cowboy Neal" to the Interests field. Facebook bombing, anyone?

Re:What a business model

[Farmer Tim]

I wonder what would happen if every account suddenly added "Cowboy Neal" to the Interests field.

They'd lose all their advertising revenue. Who wants a bunch of lunatics as their market?

Re:What a business model

[CodeBuster]

Perhaps, but it is also in the best business interests of Facebook to prevent or at least limit Flash Mob like behavior, or its influence on the advertising system, so that advertisers who do not wish to advertise based upon a brief or even one time fad do not end up paying more for false trends or fake demographics.

You have no privacy anyway

[wiredog]

Get over it.

Which is why I don't do facebook, Linked In, myspace, or any other 'social networking' site.

When I google my name (my real name, not 'wiredog') it returns zero results. I'm very happy about that.

Re:You have no privacy anyway

[Anonymous Coward]

When I google my name (my real name, not 'wiredog') it returns zero results. I'm very happy about that.

That's funny, when I google your real name I get all kinds of hits. Are you sure you spelled your name right?

Re:You have no privacy anyway

[Rampantbaboon]

I like my strategy of having enough people with the same name who are significantly more famous than I make any google search of my name completely useless.

Yet one more argument against "unique" names.

Re:You have no privacy anyway

[Kayyham]

When I google my name (my real name, not 'wiredog') it returns zero results. I'm very happy about that.

That just means the first person to link your name to something awful will have a monopoly on your search results page.

Re:You have no privacy anyway

[Anonymous Coward]

And once again the "privacy nudists" show up to tell us to just accept a camera in every aspect of our lives.

Sorry, I don't plan on "getting over it."

Re:You have no privacy anyway

[xaxa]

But don't you think those who (for whatever reason) choose to leave Facebook etc should be allowed to?

Re:You have no privacy anyway

[lewko]

When I google my name (my real name, not 'wiredog') it returns zero results

So, Mr Aoiuvoasihuashiuerqkaskjas, we meet at last!

Re:You have no privacy anyway

[harmony7]

But now Google knows your name... and they log all their searches too, don't they?

Re:You have no privacy anyway

[TheRaven64]

When I google my name (my real name, not 'wiredog') it returns zero results. I'm very happy about that. Googling for my real name results in a list of my academic publications, my mainstream publications, an Amazon link to my book, the Free Software project that I co-run and my departmental home page. Which search result do you think would be more likely to appeal to a prospective employer (for example)? Admittedly I'm only half-heatedly looking for a job at the moment, since academia keeps giving me money to work on my own projects, but should the need arise...

This Just In!

[n6kuy]

Information posted on The Internet is persistent!

Kicked out?

[betterunixthanunix]

The worst part is that if you are permanently banned from the site, they still keep all your data on their servers. That is as low as they can get, because once banned a user cannot come back to delete their personal info, as they could if they voluntarily leave. The only real answer is to simply not use Facebook, at all. Flood it with false information to mask the real info., and then leave and never look back.

Re:Kicked out?

[xaxa]

One possible solution is to ask them to delete your personal information under e.g. the UK Data Protection Act (which is essentially EU law, but I don't know the names for the laws in other countries).

Wiki on the Data Protection Act
"5. Personal data processed for any purpose or purposes shall not be kept for longer than is necessary for that purpose or those purposes."

Argue that once the account is deactivated the data is no longer necessary. Facebook has an office in London now (for sales, I think) so they need to comply with the law here.

And if you aren't a UK citizen, just join the London network and pretend.

FINALLY!

[kellyb9]

Finally, someone semi-credible has done a story about this. It's really about time. I've done just about everything to rid myself of their evil clutchs, but I have to go through thousands of records myself and delete everything. It would take an entire day to totally rid myself of facebook, and truth be told, I know my info would still be stored somewhere. When I wanted out of MySpace, I went in and pushed a button that said "delete account". If Facebook would just give me access to their databases, I'm sure I can get rid of my information in 10 minutes... and probably just about everything else. One word - EVIL.

Re:FINALLY!

[jacobw]

When I wanted out of MySpace, I went in and pushed a button that said "delete account".

And how do you know that delete button really, truly deleted everything? Don't you think that MySpace has backups of their entire database somewhere? When you delete your account, do you think they go back and delete it from all the backups as well?

Facebook's explanation for why they retain the data is, basically, "People close their accounts, and then they change their minds and want them reopened, and this way, we can restore their entire account." I'm not crazy about their policy, but I actually find this explanation pretty credible. Presumably they're guessing that people who are really concerned about online privacy probably aren't going to be posting their life details to Facebook, and they're therefore more likely to lose users by deleting data than by keeping it. That guess might turn out to be wrong, but that doesn't make it evil. It sucks that you had to spend so much time clearing your tracks, but then, it would suck if your little brother deleted your account and you permanently lost access to your photos, wall posts, PMs, etc.

Re:FINALLY!

[Anonymous Coward]

I personally find it no different than how Blizzard handles a DELETEd character in WoW.

From what I know, if you DELETE your character, you can request months later to have your character restored. And, if sources are correct, you get your toon back as it was when you deleted.

Likewise, I know a few people, who know this. So before they DELETE, they sell/destroy everything THEN DELETE. Get the toon back naked.

The only difference I see in this is the difference of information on YOU vs information on a persona. Blizzard makes ALOT of people happy when 2 months after the fact they decide 'ya know what... I changed my mind and now I want back in'. Makes getting customers back (and re-hooking them into the game) that much easier.

Re:FINALLY!

[EricWright]

If Facebook would just give me access to their databases, I'm sure I can get rid of my information in 10 minutes... and probably just about everything else.

You really think

drop database facebook_db;

would take 10 minutes?

Re:FINALLY!

[Heddahenrik]

>"People close their accounts, and then they change their minds and want them reopened, and this way, we can restore their entire account."

I can confirm that it's very common on my social networking sites. About 1% to 10% of the people close their accounts for some hysterical reason like that they got into a fight with someone, they think they spend too much time there or blahabulkarumpa. As these users create loads of problems for the administrators and other users, I see no reason what so ever to help them destroy things.

With deleted accounts everywhere people will have messages from "deleted", there will be wiki-pages written by "deleted user", there will be postings written by "deleted user" and there will be images uploaded by "deleted user". Or those could be deleted too, and that would mess things up on a cataclysmic scale ("Sorry, no wiki-page about Dragons on Elftown because it was lastly written by someone who went mad.").

Of course we have morons who don't think that deleting everything from their account is enough and behaves badly to get banned instead. Then they try to get in again under a different name, but become quietly ignored as we don't want that kind of people.

Generally this information destroying serves no purpose. They just want to whine about that they are on a page that they can't control, but they still are on their work-site, on Facebook and on a disturbing Geocities page that they have forgotten the password to.

When there is a real issue like someone who is in danger of being tracked, then I'm happy to help out as the administrator. I've only had a handful of these cases over the last 5 years though.

Re:FINALLY!

[Anonymous Coward]

Facebook is connected to the CIA.

Re:FINALLY!

[daft_one]

Indeed, I canceled my subscription & stopped playing WoW for roughly one year. Then I felt like playing again last month, and was easily able to restore my account & characters over the phone.

Re:FINALLY!

[TheRaven64]

Blizzard makes ALOT of people happy when 2 months after the fact they decide 'ya know what For future reference, capitalising your typos doesn't make them harder for people to spot.

I closed my account and get nagged all the time

[FliesLikeABrick]

I deactivated my account a few years ago, once Facebook opened to high schools and (more recently) the general public. I never used it anyway, and it was turning into an annoyance.

After deactivating the account, I saw that a lot of my information is still retained, and I'm CONSTANTLY getting e-mails from facebook saying "so and so wants to be your friend! reactivate your account!" and also messages from "Facebook" on AIM saying essentially the same.

I really wish that they took the hint "If someone deactivates their account, odds are they want to stop being involved in the site"

Re:I closed my account and get nagged all the time

[kalirion]

Reactivate your account and "update" the email address.

Re:I closed my account and get nagged all the time

[Shajenko42]

I really wish that they took the hint "If someone deactivates their account, odds are they want to stop being involved in the site"

I think they took a different hint - "If someone deactivates their account, we might be able to convince them to come back, and lose nothing by annoying the shit out of them."

Re:I closed my account and get nagged all the time

[ta ma de]

Wow. you get friend requests? Are you female?

Re:I closed my account and get nagged all the time

[FliesLikeABrick]

Can't say I am, but there are friends of friends of friends of friends of my friends at other schools who think it is fun to friend everyone they can find.

Re:I closed my account and get nagged all the time

[ta ma de]

I must just be in the old-and-creepy category, being 38 and all.

I have concerns about the privacy issues too, however, I'm not sure how this is a ton different than Monster, CareerBuilder or Match.com. If you purchase online, use a catalog, subscribe to a magazine or join a forum, then a large amount of personal information is handed over to the publisher.

The thing is ... I'm just not sure that good data results in better advertising returns. It would seem that it should, however I have known a direct mail expert who claimed that targeting through statistical aggregation was bunk.

Re:I closed my account and get nagged all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

I really wish that they took the hint "If someone deactivates their account, odds are they want to stop being involved in the site"

They don't care. The odds are also that a percentage will return for that social upswell.

This is how spam works. Ever notice that most spam is stupid and only an idiot would click? That's the idea. It's a very effective filter. The fools who click are by definition easy marks for the swindlers. Facebook is no different than spammers in this. They absolutely do not care that they annoy people like you who have left and will not come back.

Stop looking for anything like a social conscious here. Facebook is a business, an amoral structure that is only bounded by laws and profit. By definition, an amoral structure will do immoral acts that are not proscibed by law or profit. If you want Facebook to stop being shitheads then you have to look for laws or financial cost that will stop them.

Which is the sort of thing we should teach children the moment they are old enough to go on the internet -- they're getting involved with entities that operate on a different set of rules they've been taught for the playground. That should be explained clearly.

Re:I closed my account and get nagged all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

When I deactivated my account, I deleted all my personal information and then changed my e-mail address to support@facebook.com. I haven't heard a peep from them since!

Re:I closed my account and get nagged all the time

[TheRaven64]

I'm not on Facebook, but they still sent me friend requests from people who were and entered my email. Each of those had a link which told Facebook never to email me again. Since I clicked on that, I haven't received a single email from them. Don't the ones they send to former-users have this link?

Shocking, just shocking

[jayhawk88]

You mean that if I upload all kinds of personal information and data to a third party's web servers that I have no direct or even indirect control over, I might have trouble later removing that info at my whim?

Seriously, even if Facebook did have a motivation for fully scrubbing users data when asked, I would think just Facebook employee incompetence would result in a certain percentage of information being left. And from Facebook's perspective, how many times do you think they have to deal with a user wanting everything they ever posted/uploaded gone forever one week, then wanting it all back and restored perfectly the next?

If you don't want it in the public realm, don't upload it/post it. Simple as that.

Re:Shocking, just shocking

[bockelboy]

Or live in Europe.

Most of Europe, from my understanding, has very strict privacy policies regarding personal data. You must have data retention policies detailing when the information will automatically go away, always allow customers to opt out, and always allow customers to remove their data.

Thank god we have freewheeling capitalism where companies can sell my personal data with no consequence.

I'm sure someone can point out something wrong with the European system, but it sure is a whole hell of a lot better than the US one.

Re:Shocking, just shocking

[iangoldby]

Absolutely right.

The focus on Facebook is really obscuring the main issue, which is that anything that you make public on the Internet remains public. Have people never heard of the Wayback Machine and other such services?

Many of them may well have removal policies, but are you really going to know about every web server that holds a cache containing information about you, and go through the trouble of contacting the administrator of each one to get it removed? Forget it. Once it is public it remains public.

Re:Shocking, just shocking

[jayhawk88]

This may be true, but the point is that there are all kinds of ways/reasons besides "Evil Facebook" that personal information can be remembered by the Internet. If it's so vitally important for Facebook to not remember your email address, perhaps you should give it to them in the first place.

Re:Shocking, just shocking

[joeljkp]

Personally, I think any kind of commercial entity should be required (i.e. by law) to delete all personal information from their records if requested. It's the ultimate power of the individual over the corporation.

Because They Can

[hyades1]

Facebook pulls this crap because they know most people are too lazy, stupid and/or indifferent to give a crap about what happens to their personal information. Those same people will be the first to whine about how unfair it is if they win a lottery and somebody tracks down their relatives and holds a child for ransom.

Re:Because They Can

[Ophion]

Yes, that is the principle on which The Corporation flourishes.

Deactivate doesn't deactivate

[kellyb9]

Deactivate doesn't deactivate accounts. I still receive friends requests. Maybe I'm just too popular and facebook can't handle all the friends requests that are sent my way.

The Eagles. . .

[Anonymous Coward]

'It's like the Hotel California,' said Nipon Das, a user who tried unsuccessfully to delete his account. 'You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.' I had a rough night and I hate the fuckin' Eagles, man!

anyone?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is there anybody else out there like me who refuses to use social networking sites? Facebook, myspace, LJ etc?

Microsoft is your facebook friend now and forever

[Atrox666]

Cum on if you can't trust Micro$oft with your personal data who can you trust.

It's probably easier

[kellyb9]

From what I understand about Facebook's policies, it's probably easier to get kicked off than it is to have them delete your information. Just post pornography in your photo albums.

Take it easy

[Urger]

Is it True?
All Night Long I was worried about this. Is my privacy Already Gone? It made me feel like a Certain Kind of Fool to think that I had put my personal data on a site that would Take It To The Limit in terms of giving away info about me. The Outlaw Man that runs Facebook has erased my Peaceful Easy Feeling. In The Long Run, After the Thrill is Gone, Facebook will learn. Untill then, I won't Get Over It and I Can't Tell You Why.

I've run out of Eagle's songs now....

Re:Take it easy

[Stardo]

It took me a New York Minute to read that...

Re:Take it easy

[Sergeant Pepper]

I had trouble reading it because I'm going through a Tequila Sunrise.

Re:Take it easy

[jmanforever]

"I've run out of Eagle's songs now...."

Hey there Desperado, I'm sure you'll think of some more One Of These Nights.

Re:Take it easy

[RealGrouchy]

So, essentially, what you're saying is "you can check out, but you can never leave"?

- RG>

Good idea but....

[diskofish]

Since a snapshot can be made of the site at any point in time, it is possible to go back and view the "legit" data. When you post something on the interweb, it could be there for good. One example: archive.org.

Re:Good idea but....

[COMON$]

Exactly, People need to realize that once data hits a public facing server unsecured you can say goodby to any privacy. From that point on you will be archived, scraped, spidered, copied, pasted, jacked off to, daydreamed about, blogged, included in research, and a million other things you never intended to happen. Tell ya what consider anything you put on a server where the public has access Lost to the massive copying machine that is the web.

But that is the way it should be, The internet was made to be resilliant, and it does a damn good job of it. So before you start suing companies and yelling at people about not being able to erase your data, maybe you should have a good solid hand-to-forhead moment an realize you are a dumbass.

Re:Good idea but....

[Captain Splendid]

From that point on you will be archived, scraped, spidered, copied, pasted, jacked off to, daydreamed about, blogged, included in research, and a million other things you never intended to happen.

As funny, scary and true as that is, does anyone realize that there's a whole generation of kids, who've never really known life without the 'web, who not only know this but actively count on it?

Re:Good idea but....

[mollymoo]

Is archive.org in every network on facebook? That's the only way they should be able to see anybody's profile, by default. Of course, if you're not an idiot you turn viewing of your profile by your networks off - why on earth would I want everyone in the city I live in to be able to see my holiday snaps, know how I'm feeling and who my friends are?

Re:Good idea but....

[Tokah]

It scares me more that they're coming of voting age, with no concept of the importance of privacy and civil liberties.

Re:Good idea but....

[HiThere]

Which just means that you've got to start lying at the very beginning, so there's *NO* point in time where the snapshot is accurate. Puff yourself up a little, or a lot. Vary it. Become a fly-weight boxing champion. An Aikido master. A pastry chef. (I've just got a few hobbies.)

Re:Good idea but....

[STrinity]

People need to realize that once data hits a public facing server unsecured you can say goodby to any privacy. From that point on you will be archived, scraped, spidered, copied, pasted, jacked off to, daydreamed about, blogged, included in research, and a million other things you never intended to happen

-What do you want?

Information!

-You won't get it.

By hook or by crook ... we will.

Disappear

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't believe anyone.
Don't read your mail.
Make light of every word you hear.
Turn off your radio. Quit your job.
Do something different. Disappear.
Do something different. Disappear.

This is appalling

[Firas Zirie]

I've been using Facebook for a couple of months now but I had no idea that there is no way to permanently erase my info from their servers. Even if there wasn't a delete button, a simple e-mail with a polite request for deletion should be enough. Apparently someone is hearing the outcry; this is a quote from the group mentioned in the article:

"The Chief Privacy Officer for Facebook, Chris Kelly, was a speaker at a Privacy and Security Conference last week in Victoria (BC). Someone in the audience ask him about this and he mentioned that facebook was working on some kind of "nuke me" button (basically will erase each and every entry ever created by your account and all your account information) that will address all these concerns and that should be available sometime during this year. Let's hope they fulfill their promises."

This "nuke me" button should have been there all along, but at least they're working on it.

Mod Parent Up!

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, how am I going to land that plum position on the development team for Windows 7 if Microsoft's human resources department is going to do a simple Goog^H^H^H^H MSN search and find my lengthy, tedious Slashdot screeds against DRM, Vista and declaring that GNU/Linux will truly bring about the next age of man heralding peace and prosperity for all.
I chalk this up to Taco being old school when it comes to the internet where people would think first before putting something out in public on the internet fully understanding the repercussions should someone find it at a later date. I'm sure that Slash has gone through so many iterations that it would be astoundingly infeasible to actually implement a global account deletion feature. On a less gracious note, Taco and crew are probably lazy and can't be bothered to futz any more with their project.

Minor point, but...

[PapaSmurph]

it does say deactivate, not delete. There is a significant difference. Deactivation simply removes the information from an active status (makes it slightly harder to find). Deletion would totally remove that information. You must delete before you deactivate.

Makes sense to me.

Not just in facebooks servers

[sherriw]

Your data isn't just in Facebook's servers, but also potentially those of all the third part apps you've ever added to your profile. I've stripped out all my personal info so my profile is bare bones... but it's kinda too late since I had it in there before.

Not just personal data, but your relationship to all your friends list. If you 'went to school with' so and so, then it's easy to find out what school you went to based on what school your friend went to. If you have cousins on there... odds are one of them has a last name the same as your mother's maiden name. Yeah... the 'how do you know this person' info is bad too.

Re:Not just in facebooks servers

[mattwarden]

Theoretically it is against TOS for applications to store any of that data.

Re:Not just in facebooks servers

[LunarCrisis]

Your data isn't just in Facebook's servers, but also potentially those of all the third part apps you've ever added to your profile.

By default, this also includes applications any of your friends have. Check out Privacy -> Applications and Ads -> Other Applications to see what you're sharing with them.

Notice that you _cannot_ disable sharing name/networks/friends with your friends' applications without first removing all of your own Facebook platform applications O_O.

My Personal Solution

[Pazy]

Personally they can keep my account all they want, If I have it avalible to the world then its out there already. Since I started using the internet ive known not to put anything anywhere you dont want publicically avalible forever.
Though as for Facebooks right to do this? I dont think so. They may have some sort of backward legal right to do this but if thats the case someone needs to get some sort of action together to stop it. If not they will end up simply licencing the data off to companies, if anyones making money of your life it should be you.

Wipe your profile

[Psx29]

I'm surprised no one has written an extension for firefox or something that will automatically delete your information

Open source projects

[Anonymous Coward]

Open source projects and open source applications do pretty much always the same. Once you make an account it is nearly impossible to get rid of it. For several occasions I have considered suing couple projects for real because they seem to be usually entirely unresponsive or living in their phantasy world where they don't have to care about privacy. Usually an attempt to contact them gets greeted with an email that contains a sermon about the virtues of everything - including your personal details it seems - being OPEN and FREE. Gee, thanks a lot mail-archive.com and Gnome project (mail.gnome.org to be more specific). IMHO you are the greatest idiots ever.

Very common on dating sites

[Animats]

Friendfinder, the dating service, (AFF, alt.com, etc.) was notorious for this. Most of the profiles on their sites were of people who were no longer members. Good-looking photos stayed on the site for years after account termination. It took a lawsuit to stop that.

One encyclopedia for me

[matt me]

Facebook is a black hole, yet facebook leaks information to the outside. Thanks, Hawking!

Re:One encyclopedia for me

[mako1138]

You'd get one from Kip Thorne too, but he's not convinced yet.

Facebook is a pretty poor webapp

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, a website that grew out of some college kid's codebase turns out to be pretty poor at data management.

Who would have thought it!

Be honest here, no-one when they're using facebook actually thinks that the code behind it all is any good. It's all features and gimmicks wrapped in a reasonably good interface, yet it does weird stuff, and can be hours behind in showing you friend's status updates.

It was adequate for a few pictures, a simple profile, and poking. Now it's a huge behemoth, yet the company gets hit time and time again for poor privacy practices and data retention practices, showing the naivety of the people in charge.

Billionaires, it's enough to make you cry.

Another joy of the new, new modern era:

[Steauengeglase]

Just a few points here:

A lot of people here suggest simply changing parts of your account (poisoning the well) and then deleting your account. The problem with this is that Facebook doesn't really let go of anything. When I started an account there I put up an fragment of an image of a hood ornament from the 40s. Afterwards it dawned on me that an image from a random Google search was probably a worthy copyright violation so I "removed it". That was 6 months ago and that image still pops up; be it all of my sins remembered.

Foremost we need to realize that Social Networking sites are legitimized data mining services that we are only more than willing to contribute to. That is fine and it is the price that many people are willing to pay for an easy means to connect with friends and family. The difference is that MySpace is the gabby woman in accounting who will hurt you only as much as you let her while Facebook appears to be taking notes from the Church of Scientology.

Spoil their data

[LoudMusic]

A few good programmers could likely write a handful of scripts that create fake Facebook accounts, and effectively spoil their data. If even a small percentage of the total users' data are false, can you trust any of the data?

And what the hell are people doing putting seriously private data on a public server anyway? Have the past TWO DECADES of internet privacy violation news stories not been an educator for the general populous? If you put something on someone else's server, it's their data. You screwed up. Go home.

Delete Your Info Before Your Account

[WebmasterNeal]

Uh, why not just delete everything from your profile BEFORE you choose to delete your account? Sure all those annoying comments you left on other people's walls may still be there but your profile data won't.

Bogus headline

[klossner]

The Slashdot headline is completely wrong. A black hole destroys all information that it receives; it never releases it.

Re:Bogus headline

[Cro Magnon]

Well, Facebook still has one thing in common with Black Holes. They both suck a lot.

Why give them accurate information?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does everyone insist on telling these companies everything about you?

Do they need to know your date of birth?
No.
Do your friends need to see if on facebook?
No. (They should know when it is anyway.)
And so on.

The amount of accurate information that you are required to give is very small:
your name and email address.

That is also enough for your friends to find you.

Well Facebook is not as bad as EA

[saikou]

While Facebook still allows you to remove your information (but they need a grace period for archive/backup because otherwise it's a great way to sue -- kill your information, sue them next day because 7 day backups would STILL have your info), Electronic Arts doesn't allow removal AT ALL.
Here's what their "support" replies to question on how to remove account:

Thank you for contacting Electronic Arts.

Unfortunately a registration code can only be used to create one account. If it has been used to register an account before, it cannot be used again to create a new account. Also, the account registered once cannot be unregistered or deleted. You will need to login to the game using the same account name and password with which you have registered the game. And there is no way to merge two accounts into one. If you are concerned about deletion of an account, then please note that accounts once created can never be cancel or removed from our database.

DRM

[MacDork]

Maybe we could create some sort of "Digital Rights Management" software that allows us to control how others use our content...

(^_~) You know, sometimes you guys are real hypocrites. Where are the legions of slashbots shouting "Information wants to be free." If you didn't want to share it with the world, you should have kept it to yourself.

Bah

[tm2b]

Just start adding Church of Scientology documents to your profile.

"Let's you and them fight."

Re:Bah

[Baron_Yam]

ooh... I like that. It's evil, but it's a good-evil thing, like two evils canceling each other out in a big bash up.

I may just do that if I can get my hands on some stuff Tommy, Johnny, or any of the other whackjobs don't like.

Myspace woes...

[rickatnight11]

I have had the same experience with MySpace. I canceled my account with that horrible site, only to find out several months later that my profile is still online. Can I log in to edit it or try removing it again? No. MySpace's tech support is useless as well. Purely automated responses with no solutions. I have received the same answer every time: "Log in and access advanced preferences to delete my account." Apparently all canceling your account does is disable your access to your data, giving MySpace complete control over it.

Re:Myspace woes...

[Steauengeglase]

Easy fix for that. Just starting sending spam out of your account.

Re:Myspace woes...

[rickatnight11]

I would if I could access it. It's there, but its not "mine".

Dumb, Dumb Dumb Dumb, Duuuuumb

[JCSoRocks]

Anyone who posts gobs of personal information online and then complains about privacy is an idiot. Perhaps those same people would be interested in this money making scheme I have.... Seriously, I have always avoided MySpace, FaceBook, insert social network here, for that very reason. I don't even use my real name on public e-mail accounts and messaging programs (AIM, MSN, Hotmail, etc). The Internet is *not* private. It's a giant billboard in the middle of freaking Times Square. If you put your personal info up there, anyone can walk by and see it.

I'm not sure why people are so surprised to find out that FaceBook doesn't care. This just in - those social networks don't actually exist for *your* benefit. They are there to make money (although their business plans are sometimes a bit dubious...).

Re:Dumb, Dumb Dumb Dumb, Duuuuumb

[dnahelix1]

I'm glad you're that smart. But what happens to the 14 or 15 or 16 y.o. whose parents won't let him have a FB or MS account and then goes behind their back (because, you know, kids NEVER do that) and then post a bunch of crap they shouldn't because, you know, their kids and then in five years they get smart and then want to actaully protect what is out there?

Re:Dumb, Dumb Dumb Dumb, Duuuuumb

[JCSoRocks]

Actually, I *was* that age when I first started using the net around 12 years ago. Sometimes you have to live with the mistakes you make when you're a teenager - just because you're five years older doesn't mean that friend you killed while you were drinking and driving is any less dead. That's obviously an extreme example, but my point is, sometimes you have to deal with your decisions. That doesn't mean I agree with Facebook's choice to continue to display "deleted" user profiles... but I don't think people should be too surprised to find out that there's nothing they can do about it.

ToS Contradiction?

[Blue Stone]

This doesn't make sense to me:

"By posting User Content to any part of the Site, you automatically grant [...] to the Company an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, worldwide license ..."

"If you choose to remove your User Content, the license granted above will automatically expire ..."

So which is it? Irrevocable or expirable? Perpetual or ... not? It can't be both.

I wouldn't call it a black hole

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not worried about it being a black hole for information. Sucking in information and never releasing it.
I'm more worried about it being a worm hole. Sucking in information and spitting it out...who knows where?!

Easier Solution

[thewils]

Recognize the privacy problem up front and don't join in the first place.

Re:Easier Solution

[rifter]

Recognize the privacy problem up front and don't join in the first place.

Exactly. I mean .. WTF?! When will people understand that information that you PUBLISH ON THE INTERNET is not private? If you want something to be kept private, don't publish it.

Gandalf: "Keep it secret. Keep it safe."

later ..

Gandalf: "Is it secret? Is it safe?"

Frodo: "I uploaded it to my MySpace page and wrote the translation and your instructions in my blog. But only my friends can read it..."

Gandalf: "Goddamnit!"

The data does not seem to be removed...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi XXX,

Your information no longer appears on the site, and we have removed your login email address from our system.

Thanks,

Garth
User Operations
Facebook

-----Original Message to Facebook-----
From: XXXXX (XXX@XXX)
To: comment-info-rt@facebook.com, privacy@facebook.com, info@facebook.com
Subject: Account Removal

Hello,

I've recently "deactivated" my Facebook account, but cannot find a way to
completely delete my account.

I would like all of my information to be wiped from the facebook servers.

Please delete my account en related information in its entirety (my account
email address is XXX@XXX), or send me instructions on how to do so
myself.

Thank you for your time,

XXXXX
-----End Original Message to Facebook-----

A Black Hole?

[Arancaytar]

So all private information remains safely trapped inside it? That's good, right?

( =P )

Newsflash.

[saxmanb]

Everything you do on the internet is saved forever. Waybackmachine FTW.

Not really

[EmbeddedJanitor]

Copyright controls the assignment of rights.

When you post the material you are agreeing to their terms of use and giving them the appropriate rights to hold the images or whatever.

Re:Not really

[Fulcrum of Evil]

And when you remove the content, you revoke those rights, so they can't distribute them anymore.

The Prisoner

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does that remind me of this:

"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prisoner/

Solution: Fake info

[Capeman]

If they don't delete your profile, just fill it with fake info...

Facebook Vs LinkedIn Vs Slashdot

[Jim Logajan]

I've never used Facebook but made the mistake of creating this account with Slashdot. When I later created an account on LinkedIn I tried to be more diligent in learning their terms of agreement beforehand. Of the three entities, LinkedIn seems to be the only one to have a relatively painless way to completely remove one's account. That means a lot to me because it means they've put user priorities ahead of their own (e.g. making their coding task easier).

If Slashdot wants to continue draw users like myself so it can sell ad space, then they might wish to rethink some of their policies.

For the less than genius, evil genius

[Anonymous Coward]

MS-SQL Server: The database for aggregation and collection of everyone's secrets for the not so genius, evil genius.

In the real world....

[tacokill]

And in the real world, there are those who "get" the digital world and those who don't. The people who get it already realize there are risks to privacy for being online. Those who don't go on about their business not realizing the peril they are putting themselves in. They have a skewed understanding of the costs and benefits of using a service like facebook and they way overfocus on the benefits.

Your brother and his friends fall into the latter group. They will be treated accordingly and will enjoy all of the benefits AND costs associated with "not knowing". Ignorance is not bliss --- in the real world. If you don't know what is going on around you, it's very easy to get in over your head and get yourself in trouble. With the direction things are going online, there are going to be a LOT of people who get themselves in trouble.

In summary, while your brother (and most people) don't care now, at some point in their lifetime they will be forced to care. Because the alternative is much much worse. It is only a matter of time at the current pace we are moving...

Internet needs a dose of old-school

[WebCowboy]

I started using the internet in the last months before the WWW was invented (I told someone that once and they gave me a confused "what does that mean, isn't the web what the internet IS?"...boy times change quickly). I used email to communicate from afar to avoid postage and long distance fees. There was this thing called majordomo on the department's mail server and we could make lists to broadcast announcements...what a concept!

Facebook is fun and all, I guess, but I'm really not sure why the heck we NEED it. What is wrong with everyday ordinary technology we had for years before Facebook? Maintain your own addressbook and use email to communicate. Throw your pics on the web server space your local ISP probably still provides and make your own album, and invite your friends to do the same. What's really sad is how email was allowed to turn into a spam-infested stagnant scum-pond. However, like Lake Erie, efforts have been put into cleaning up the ecosystem that have started to deliver results. With proper spam filtering, domainkeys, etc. you can reduce your spam to 1 a day or even less. Seems far better signal:noise ratio than Facebook's announcements (of course you can turn those off too).

If you are as geeky as I am you can go find an ISP that offers a fixed IP address that allows inbound connections for servers. If being online is that big part of your life then paying $30 to $60 a month for ISP isn't a high cost (no more than cable tv if you put it in perspective). Then you can set up a web server that you and your friends can use as your own personal discussion forum/blog/album. Then, the info you put on your server is controlled by you, who you let access the site is basically up to you, and if you want to take it down you don't have to badger some meathead in some unresponsive customer service dept. to remove your files. This sounds really geeky, but it sure is easier to do than it was back in the "dark-ages" of the 1990's...if you can run the setup CD for Windows XP, you can set up a LAMP server these days.

I run a server as a hobby myself, and prefer to use that as where I put my "online presence" over Facebook or Myspace or whatever. I have accounts with hose sites but I log in on those seldom to never. Of course I got into computers at a time when BBSes were really coming into fashion and 300 baud modems were still commonplace. When you were a geek kid with geek friends you set up your own BBSes to communicate and share files, and when you didn't do that it wasn't uncommon to end up talking with or meeting the sysop in person.

The internet community as a whole needs to remember the culture in those old-school PPS and pre-WWW internet days. Internet technologies and the arrival of broadband was exciting to such people because it could be personally empowering--if we all had half-decent connections into the internet we'd all have the means to "run our own printing presses" without the impossible capital investment. Our BBSes could be supplanted by internet email and our own ftp sites and NNTP servers and gopher pages and this new exciting WWW thing. Some of us thought we could all have our own easy-to-use personal servers the way we ran our own BBSes.

Somewhere in the .com bubble around 2000 that vision seemed to have become lost, and since then it seems there is great pressure to shape the internet into something along the lines of traditional broadcasting. We went from techies setting up their own web servers to early web users tinkering with text editors and primitive HTML editors building their own pages, to a variety of blog sites where people kept online journals, to where we are today where only a small number of online presences are considered "relevant" and people feel that the only way to participate online is through one of these few relevant sites like Facebook, Myspace, Yahoo, Google and MSN. To think we thought the likes of Compuserve, Progidy and Delphi would be made obsolete, never again to return to the same relevance,

Re:Internet needs a dose of old-school

[fatalfury]

Get off my lawn.

;)

Simple Solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Send a letter via certifyed mail that looks like a lot of lawyer talk, Delete this profile or we will take you to court (small claims court woot) in a town of our choice so far away its cheaper to remove the account then buy plane tickets to get there. Add in someplace that user tools to accomplish this task are missing or lacking due to the over 24 hrs required via the currnet policy.

Facebook cant aford to send its staff to small clames courts all over the US even if the court will side with them. If thay dont show you get a small judgment aginst them, if thay do show thay have already lost. How can this go wrong?

OR you can poision your account, then act like your a spammer and spam the fuck out of them from the account, takes less time for sure.

nonline privacy

[Anonymous Coward]

"As funny, scary and true as that is, does anyone realize that there's a whole generation of kids, who've never really known life without the 'web, who not only know this but actively count on it?"

At some point in future, you will realize, that online privacy was not that big of an issue, and nobody will give much about it, future teenagers will know that ANY identity is fake, as outdated as the last second that just happened, and will learn to live in the real world.

Except, real world will never be the "old" real world any more, because of privacy issues.

Broke it?

[Anonymous Coward]

I obfuscated my facebook a/c a few months ago and managed to convince my wife tonight to do the same with hers. I created a temporary junk email address for her to use for her contact details and just for fun I reactivated my a/c to check that I had really removed all my data and also I entered the junk email I had given her (within a few minutes of her changing hers). Both a/c's registered the email as OK by sending out an email and confirming the new login, so I deactivated my a/c again and tried to log in to her a/c. Voila, her a/c is no longer accessible, maybe I have merged two a/c's under one email? Perhaps because it was evening when the servers are busy some database wasn't updated quick enough? Hopefully I've broken something in one of the a/c's so no one can get at the data. I hate this kind of privacy abuse.

Good luck finding me

[r_jensen11]

A while ago, I put my address on Facebook as 10 Downing. I'd like to see them come after me!

Moderation options, please!

[shellbeach]

Note to mods: Don't bother modding this OT/flamebait/troll/stalker or whatever. I'm just continuing a conversation with parent that we've been having for a while, so don't bother wasting any points. Hmmm .... while we're offtopic, can I put in a request for "-1 Fucking Stupid" and "-1 Uninformative" moderation options? Too many times have I seen someone get modded up writing incorrect drivel, and the only option you can use is "Overrated".

Let's get some angst into our moderation, /.ers! No more Mr. Nice Geek!

Bad Anal Orgy Guy

[Anonymous Coward]

Ew!