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Whatever Happened To The Joystick?
Ant writes "MSN UK has up an article that looks into the 'downfall' of the joystick: 'Sometimes technology disappears completely, but often it just fades into the background — still existing, still being used and sold and, occasionally, desired, but probably looking wistfully back on past glories. Which neatly described the joystick's steady slide away from its role as THE gaming peripheral to a fondly remembered also ran. But the joystick's tale is a long and convoluted one — and it is worth looking back into its often mysterious and ill-studied history before explaining why it will rise from the ashes like the mythical phoenix.' Seen on ClassicGaming."
It broke after playing the 100m dash in Summer Games.
The joystick met its Doom
Today's games require dual analog controllers and about 27 buttons. A decent joystick set that has all that functionality does exist - but it's primarily relegated to the flight sim community.
To have dual analog controllers in a large form factor, you'd have to have the joysticks mounted on something sturdy. Recall that back in Atari days, you used your weak hand to stabilize the thing while controlling it with your dominant hand. With two sticks, you'd need a base. And that would be big and not very mobile. And you'd still have to have some design where you could easily press all the buttons without moving your hands. Again, like a flight sim system, but those are very expensive.
So basically, the joystick got shrunk and put on a handheld controller.
Some company makes a "remake" of the famous Competition Pro joystick (complete with micro-switches and all) that has a USB connector.
There have been very few games where I actually enjoyed using a joystick, and all of those were (space) flight simulators. How many of those have come out the past couple of years? Heck, the last one I recall using a joystick with was Tachyon: The Fringe, and that was only up to the point where I found that when using the mouse the ships could turn infinitely fast.
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Doesn't each XBox 360 and PS3 controller have *TWO* joysticks on them??
The controllers on my PS2 and my Xbox 360 each have two joysticks that you can move with a thumb instead of using your whole hand. One usually controls movement, and the other the camera.
I write sci-fi for metalheads
People went from playing adventure games to first person shooters like Doom.
Right next to the paddles and the rest of the Atari 2600 gear.
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I remember my first joystick I got, a Gravis 3 button job. It came with Commander Keen 4. I played that thing for hours, and that joystick was awesome, but I soon realized, the only place for a joystick was flight sims.... I even tried using the joystick again for look in Half-Life for the heck of it, that went horribly....
Joysticks were always a niche peripheral really - keyboard/mouse is much better for FPS, and though fighting games use joysticks in the arcade, it's a lot easier to combo with a digital pad (dammit Melty Blood, I pushed down three times, why isn't your dead zone large enough to notice?). I think what the decline in joysticks really shows is the decline in first-person flight sim-esque games - remember when X-Wing/TIE fighter/etc. was the big thing to play? What happened to those days? The last decent game of that sort I remember was Star Trek Bridge Commander, and I'll bet many people played through the whole campaign without even noticing the ability to control the Enterprise flight-sim style. It's a shame, because it seems like one of the genres that would really benefit a lot from modern graphics. So, what happened to it?
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I for one am stroking my wookie daily!
It was an inferior control device for home consoles. The joystick is only an effective controller when it's properly secured into a solid base. e.g. An arcade machine. When translated to home use, it tended to be detached from a solid base and thus suffered. The 2600 CX40s used a wide base to attempt to combat this problem, but a player still applied torque to his own hands when using the joystick. The CX24 Prolines that were included with the Atari 7800 were that much worse. It was physically straining to use the joysticks properly due to the narrow base.
The only company that produced a worse home joystick was Coleco. Their joystick was so small, you needed to palm it to use it. Palming the stick resulted in even MORE torque, thus making gaming very tiring despite the wide base.
At the end of the day, the gamepad was a superior control device for home consoles. It met the needs of the average game better, thus relegating joysticks to arcade and flight-sim use only.
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Not sure what this article is saying. On home consoles, the joystick was gone from the time of the NES, long before the Playstation. And I don't know of any games that "required" its use. The gamepad from the start was a complete replacement for joysticks on home consoles. It also makes no mention of the fact that joysticks remain the standard input device in actual arcade games.
Was shrunk and included within a more complete input set: the game pad.
The day they started flying planes with joysticks, the gamers were done with them. No sharing of our l33t technologies man !
Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
The great thing about open source software is that much of it still supports superior input devices such as the joystick. Proprietary, closed source software, like the vast majority of games out there, cannot be similarly extended to support such hardware; another thing in the long list of ways in which closed source, proprietary software is inferior.
What about the controller for the ColecoVision? Now THAT was a controller!
Now get off my lawn!
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Does anyone else notice that this article makes it seem as though the Playstion was the first console with a thumbstick, when in fact it was the N64. Sony redid their controller after seeing how popular it was. Which seems vaguely familiar.... dual shock 3???
...to avoid cheesy geek-innuendos, the 'joystick' became the 'joypad nubbin-stick'. Yeah, thanks.
At least obselesence has finally freed us of all those 'floppy' jokes.
...TFA makes a rather grievous error when it refers to the "Nintendo joypad". The joypad was an early attempt at combining both control methods. e.g. The Atari CX78 was a joypad:
http://www.atariage.com/controller_page.html?SystemID=7800&ControllerID=24
The NES controller was properly referred to as a gamepad. Modern controllers blur the distinction by having both DPad controls as well as thumbstick controls.
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Qutie simply, the hugeness that was the NES killed the joystick. Gamers found that these controllers gave a better way to to play, even with the nasty "nintendo thumb" that everyone got.
These thumbsticks bear stronger consideration - although they are reduced to joystick nubs - these have been integral to joypads since the original PlayStation...
As I recall, my N64 had a thumbstick smack in the middle of the controller before the Sony Dualshocks (or pre Dualshocks, if they had no vibe.) Am I remembering this incorrectly? In additon, I found the article to be a bit pedantic and with littel substance. No mention of force feedback or joystick hats, which are the real progenitors of modern day thumbsticks.
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The IBM PC had no joystick ports and as it became the dominant gaming platform over machines from Commodore and Atari the inexpensive, simple 8-way joystick was abandoned to be replaced by expensive sound cards and complicated joysticks.
I find it sad that entire genres of gaming became extinct with it.
Only now are flash games reviving the idea of simple, but fun games.
It's funny that in 2008 there are tons of games being developed that play with.... a keyboard!
ASDF!
Hori still makes some good ones for fighting games expensive though. I own a few "Joysticks" for fighting games. An Intec with programmable features gives a cheap advantage somewhat. I feel that advantage has weakened my skill set for the arcade. Really need to get back to the arcades but Fighting games just aren't as popular now as they use to be. I blame RPG's and First/Third Person shooters. Below is a Samurai Sprits 6 Comp. I love this game and own it for the PS2 Part1 Part2 Part3 Part4
I for one love my X-Arcade joystick (link warning: some video game sounds present). Nothing makes for a better MAME experience short of building an entire MAME cabinet.
I've got my old sidewinder pro force feedback stick still and I'd love to play some decent flightsim or spacesim with it again.
I tried looking for a decent "fun" jet combat flightsim again the other day and the choice is next to nothing nowadays whereas years ago there years to be tons - the Jayne's series, TFX/EF2000 etc. and prior to that my favourite of all time, Dogfight on the Atari ST.
Outside of flightsims mechwarrior worked well as did the X-Wing and Tie-Fighter series.
The real problem is lack of games, Microsoft Flight Sim seems to dominate, but I wasn't keen on it, I wanted a quick and dirty action flight sim!
Ironically, with Over G, Ace Combat 6, Blazing Angels I've found the 360 a better place for flight sims nowadays but I'd much rather be dogfighting with a joystick than a pair of thumbsticks!
Each of my PS2 controllers has 2 joysticks, and the nunchuk controller for my Wii has one as well.
I guess some would argue that because they're thumb operated they don't count as joysticks (the article refers to them as "thumbsticks"). I disagree with that. We had an Atari 2600 30 years ago (actually, I still have it) and when I played it I'd hold the controller so my right thumb would be on top of the stick (the way thumbsticks are used today) and my left thumb would press the fire button. Since those sticks were just 8 way digital sticks you didn't need the fine control that the analog sticks take today.
As far as I'm concerned, as long as there's a version of Robotron 2084 out there, there will be a need for joysticks. Now please excuse me while I chase some kids off my lawn.
It broke after playing the 100m dash in Summer Games.
Yeah, yeah... what you ACTUALLY mean is you broke it trying to get that X rated animation on the Amiga to go faster....!
Yes, they aren't big enough to be proper joysticks, but they serve the same function. Besides, could you imagine implementing the equivalent of a NES Advantage stick for the PS3 or the Xbox 360?
I write sci-fi for metalheads
I still have a whole box of old joysticks for my Commie 64 just collecting dust in the attic. It's a shame that that the traditional stick is essentially gone from gaming these days. Right now the only modern application of the arcade-style joystick is for use in competitive fighting games (such as Tekken, Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, Soul Calibur, etc..) Since I play these games daily, I have an array of various traditional arcade joysticks I've built myself or imported from different countries. Console pads are cool, however sticks offer precise full-hand and wrist articulation, whereas pad controls rely solely on the thumb.
Seriously, it's a big freaking lever instead of the grouping of buttons that take less force and less maneuvering to manipulate. Why in the world would I want my whole hand to move a joystick and inch to the right when I can just slide my thumb over a quarter inch to get the same effect?
And no, it's not a matter of laziness but rather an ergonomic advantage in playing a game. It's the same reason I like keyboard/mouse; I can go from a full run to back peddling on a FPS by simply pressing a key instead of having to reposition my thumb over another button, or worse in the joysticks case of having to reposition my entire hand by two inches.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Yeah I know the first I reach for when I play a flight sim is my keyboard and mouse. Why those stupid real life pilots prefer old fashion sticks and yokes is beyond me.
Actually a more valid complaint from old gamers like me is how in the hell people play FPSs with joysticks, i.e. those analogy thumb sticks on consoles.
...is that way back in 1979 when it became available, the Intellivision was slammed for having a game pad instead of a full joystick like the 2600, now it's the norm.
Saitek Cyborg 2000: bought in 2002 for £28
Saitek Cyborg Evo: bought in 2005 for £25
Saitek X53 Pro: bought in 2007
Easily the best (and most expensive!) is the X53 Pro. Comes with a throttle with as many buttons as the stick itself. £240 and worth every penny.
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
They're in the same place as the buggy whip, hand cranked Ditto machines, wire voice recorders, the Zune and the Underwood typewriter.
Let it go. Move on.
Ever try to fly a chopper with a mouse or keyboard? Or dogfight in a Spitfire without a rudder? Anyone who flies regularly in PC games probably uses a joystick. I use a joystick in the Battlefield series (BF1942, BF Vietnam, BF2, BF2142), in flight sims (Falcon 4.0), space sims (Freespace series) and the Mech Warrior series, where having a rudder is enormously important. Unless all of these kinds of games disappear, there will always be a market for joysticks.
I understand that English is a living language, but I object to changes arising merely from repeated errors.
i never really cared for joysticks for platformers. but, i loved them for fighting games. street fighter, mortal kombat, and even the soul caliber series just feel better with a joystick. i never knew anyone who could do that crazy 360 move with Zangief without a joystick (or ripping a hole in their thumb).
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Joysticks are still around. There are two of them on my Playstation 2 controller. They're smaller than they used to be but that's just evolution.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
I'll always remember my frustrations using the joystick on the Amiga. Here I had an advanced system that played beautiful games with some decent amount of depth, and I only get ONE button on the joystick, like I was still using a Vic-20. Inevitably that meant that the button was "fire" and you had to press up to jump. So no control while jumping, and it was easy to jump when you didn't want to. Shadow of the Beast, Blues Brothers, Zool, all games that made me give up in frustration about about 20 minutes thanks to the archaic Amiga joystick.
http://www.hori.jp/us/products/wii/wii_fighting_stick/index.html
http://www.hori.jp/us/products/ps3/fighting_stick/index.html
I think they explained it well. http://www.explosm.net/comics/1087/
It got too expensive. I recently looked into purchasing an USB arcade joystick for use with 2D fighter games, and the only ones worth looking at (X-Arcade, Hori) cost about $100, for a single controller. In comparison, a new PS2 can be had now for $130. $100 is just too much to shell out for a gaming peripheral.
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Joysticks have gone out of style because we haven't had a new Descent game in almost a decade. Similarly, the last great space combat sim was Freespace 2. There are probably some chicken-and-egg issues as well. You don't buy a joystick if you haven't a game to go with it, and you don't buy appropriate games if you don't have a joystick.
What would you rather do? Control a single element with my entire hand or control 5+ things with that same hand? With all the buttons we have on top of and below the controller these days,you have a lot more to do with that one hand. There are the old joysticks that have multiple triggers and buttons on top, but there is no way you can pull off the kind of sensitivity you need for a first person shooter, and few other games that are suitable other than flight sims. Even if somebody did reinvent the joystick to work great with a particular game, it probably would ONLY work well for that one game. The lesson we have all learned from the most popular interface tools is keep it simple! Mouse and Keyboard, wiimote, the Playstation controller, all accept this fact, and thats why they are hard to beat.
I'm saying casual now, not the hardcore. I know there are plenty of hardcore sim fans out there. But it seems like the casual market has really gone to crap. Space Sims are fairly dead. The X-Wing series had a great run, through TIE Fighter and X-Wing Alliance. LucasArts wants nothing more to do with it. The last good Wing Commander was II, I was impressed by the FMV's of III and IV but they really weren't very good as games, the hardware wasn't up to the task of pushing polygonal models and the ship designs looked like fried ass. There are some shareware space sims out there but again, they just don't feel like proper space shooters.
As far as atmospheric sims went, Comanche Overkill had a lot of promise. The game had no plot going for it at all, it was just crazy encounters in barren canyons but holy shit, that was fun! Flying through those voxel canyons, the controls were sharp and things felt convincing. The sequels dropped the ball here.
The last great casual fight sim I've played was Crimson Skies. Good joystick support, great plot, excellent voice acting, quite enjoyable. The X-Box sequel ruined the whole feel.
I've seen some of the other arcadey sims that have come out but they don't feel right, all of these titles end up being a 6/10 or 7/10, real meh material. I played the demos for the WWII flight sims on 360 and they're just more 6/10's. I think that proper casual flight sims have basically gone the way of the adventure game.
Kwisatz Haderach
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This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
I was at some sort of huge fair along with my air cadet squadrons one summer many moons ago, and one of the other squadrons in attendence had brought along a 3/4 scale model spitfire, you could sit in it and everything.
There was a breakfast television crew wandering around filming and some hot blonde TV presenter was being shown said spitfire and helped to climb into it. Upon trying to sit down down in the cockpit she suddenly finds her way impeded and asks the cadet sergeant "Oops! What's this between my legs?"
Cadet Sergeant, with big grin: "That's the joy stick". Cue red-faced presenter and much laughter.
I don't think that bit ever made it on the telly...
There's something to be said about the fine motor control that the fingers are capable of that can't be easily replicated by the entire arm. Joysticks require a steady hand and a working surface you can rest your arms on so they don't tire, while the smaller analog sticks of today only require the thumbs to rest on them. They're best used in situations that simulate Joysticks in real life, such as in flying simulators. They don't translate nearly as well to the (mostly) 2D movement in an FPS as a simple crosspad does because most movement in those environments don't require analog sensitivity. A joystick requires much more of a response to achieve the same results.
That being said, the immersive qualities of holding the joystick while leading an enemy target is much greater than the simple twitch movements that most games rely on today, as well as improved dexterity when using both large and small muscle groups at the same time (see also: autoaim). If anything replaced the joystick it's the mouse, not the analog stick. It's much more comfortable to use, requires less effort to achieve the same sensitivity, and is much more ubiquitous (imagine trying to use a joystick to move the Windows mouse).
it's rather that games needed more dimensions to play than that a superior design came along, though that is of course the case :)
can you imagine playing a nice game of Quake without being able to look up or down? :)
I write sci-fi for metalheads
I use my retro 80s arcade controller for MAME and I have my flight joke controller for the rare occasion I have time to dive into a flight simulator. I should find one for my PS2 for playing Taito Museum (anyone?).
Game pads are fine, but those awful thumb controllers in modern games consoles are just plain irritating to me. I've never understood the appeal. Maybe I'm old fashioned?
Was just having this discussion with my dad, who is another huge flight sim buff. I would kill for new versions of Red Baron, Aces of the Pacific, and TIE Fighter.
Sadly, it seems the PC market is in love with MMORPG's and FPS's. Which, I can't blame them too much - that's where the money is. The mass market seems to be all about fast paced, arcadey style games heavy on eye candy and light on realism. Which unfortunately makes producers gun shy about trying something new. And in turn, makes the joystick kind of pointless.
Which blows. I miss the days of desperately trying to keep my shot up biplane aloft while trying to shake Allied planes off my six and crawl back across the front.
... or the reversed T arrow keys layout.
Of course, the first really good non-joystick action/puzzle game I played was Lode Runner. You used the keyboard. The left hand controlled movement with six keys, and the right hand controlled actions with six keys. You rested your hand on the keyboard. It worked sort of like xevil. It was surprisingly easy to get the hang of.
It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.
What do you mean where it went? I play with my joy stick all the time. I am just not allowed in many public places anymore.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
I play with my joystick nightly and then cry myself to sleep :'(
this sig has been discontinued.
(Looks down at lap) Thanks to Viagra, nothing. Same as it ever was.
So they are still there, they just aren't the primary controllers any more. They are a little hard to use in some games, but many games use them to great affect.
Other's use them for crappy camera controls, which is a pain.
No! It's a *SIG*. Keep the Special Interest Groups away! (Con joke!)
With all the, "This is gay!" and "That is gay!" and "ur ghey!" and other somewhat homosexist (Is that even a word? It is now!) remarks I've heard while gaming recently, I would posit that the phallic joystick met its demise when the subconscious Freudian implications of groping a shaft (well, other one's own) and massaging it vigorously suddenly reached critical mass and repulsed a generation of gamers who are adamant that they're "Not Gay".
Is perhaps the best joystick ever made. I've had mine for over a decade and is still on my desk and still used at least once a month. Games like Flight Simulator X and Egosoft's X3 are best played with such a joystick.
:)
Its an absolute MUST for any flight sim junkies.
The joystick is still relatively expensive considering its age, and I have no idea why M$ decided to stop making it.
The same tech is used in their new forcefeedback racing wheel for 360 -- so I expect that to also last a decade
It was reduced in size and installed on all 3 major console's controllers, in some cases in pairs. We found out that gripping our sticks was less important than easy access to pushing buttons. Not to mention how ergonomically uncomfortable it was for prolonged playtime. That sounds a bit more suggestive than I intended.
OSGGFG - Open Source Gamers Guide to Free Games
I've had a MS Sidewinder ForceFeedback 2 for nearly a decade now, and it has a nice solid base thats heavy but not too heavy. Settled on a desk its nearly impossible to move around when used properly -- even when the plane you're controller has had its rudder shot off and you're trying to land on a carrier (ie, pretty decent forcefeedback going on)
So I would have to disagree that a heavy based controller is impractical or overly expensive.
And this joystick cost me 79.99 back then... Yet its more expensive now which is interesting.
It was a bit large, but had a good heavy steel base plate and large arcade style buttons. It was like having the arcade setup at home. I miss that controller.
Especially the first part of the series. It focused on the weird leveldesign, smooth controle over the spaceship and extreme fast action. Descent 2 was the same, but the levels began to become "slower". The 3d-engine of the 3rd part had problems with it's collision detection and the leveling of the spaceship was much worse that in the other two parts. I still play the linuxport of D from time to time, and have a lot of fun. I'm using my old Thrustmaster TopGun http://www.joy-stick.net/images/TopGun.gif , an oldschool flightstick. Another great game ist TIE-Fighter, which run smoothly under dosbox and (IMHO) the best action-flightsim ever, TFX.
Joysticks are still around, but for some reason they are not all left handed.
8/16-bit era joysticks were operable with either hand, so naturally being right handed I used my... right hand! Then Nintendo came along with the NES and it's left-handed gamepads, and everyone else copied them. Now modern gamepads have analogue joysticks, but they are operated with the left hand.
Surely since 9 out of 10 people are right handed, and precision joystick control needs more dexterity than simple button pressing, the joystick should be on the right.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
FTFA
... stick! Joystick! Could be your name, Joyce-stick -and- a fun pastime for me, Joystick!"
"...but there is some talk that another Pilot, Missouri based James Henry Joyce got there first and named the device the Joyce-stick."
Am I the only one that thought "Hmm, maybe his wife/girlfriend at the time actually came up with that name, the Joy-Stick which sounds like Joyce-stick but with a play on words"?
I can totally see it:
Joyce: "Hun, wanna pilot -this- bod? You can use my stick"
Wife: "Ohh yeah, I'll use the Joyce-stick. Heh, the Joy
----
Ok so maybe it's a stretch, but hey, I think I might be onto something. And now, to let this endlessly arguable point of history be solved in bars around the world...
A black cat crossing your path signifies that the animal is going somewhere. -- Groucho Marx
In the FPS genre at least joysticks are still going strong, although in a small niche community. ;).
Maybe I should replace "Joystick" with "Joystick + Trackball" because that is the basic
configuration. The first realization of this was the Mad Catz PantherXL ( I have 3 ).
After Mad Catz discontinued it, people moved to either (1) modded PXLs with a USB Panther DX
( basically the joystick part of the PXL ) in place of the old PXL parallel port joystick
interface and with the guts of a high end optical gaming mouse in place of the mechanical
trackball sensor or (2) just a regular joystick and trackball used simultaneously. Man this
really brings back the memories of totally dominating the mouse + keyboard crowd
Anyway, if you want more information, go here : http://stevehailer.com// .
jdb2
Tempus ut sagitta fugit et muscae pomorum bananam amant
Fiight sim users who do landings have to have a joystick. You can zoom around with a game pad, but try to do a good landing without a joystick.
Joysticks are actually excellent intuitive controllers, which is why they are used in a wide variety of industrial applications. The problem with them as game controllers is that they need to be properly constrained, which is at odds with having an easily saleable form factor. I used to play a lot of flight sim type games, and had an office chair rigged up with joysticks securely fastened to the armrests so that the bases could not move, and I had forearm support from the armrests. 100% difference from having a joystick on your desk or held in your hands. Although a mouse provides more repeatable positional control (aim), and a keyboard provides access to a wide variety of functions, where this is not an issue or can be accomodated by a programmable joystick combination, the latter seems to me to provide a more immersive gaming experience - particularly in games such as flight sims for which the joystick adds realism. Unfortunately, games need to be written with the interface in mind to successfully pull this off, and nobody is writing for the joystick interface anymore.
I think the joystick fell into a niche. I mean its obviously still around for flight simulation games to increase the realism there, but it isn't very realistic when playing most games. Honestly, there's about 3 successful flight simulation franchises floating around now, and one of them is made by MS... so take your pick there.
"... as a keypad or thumbstick; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age."
When I read the title, my first thought was: "I thought most controllers for consoles have one or two joysticks." The joystick may be dead on the PC (with its superior mouse), but it's alive an well on controllers. It shrunk, that's all, but it's basically the same thing.
"With two sticks, you'd need a base."
This is exactly correct. I'm a bit of a flight game nut (I hesitate to use the word "sim" because while I do enjoy highly realistic games like Falcon 4, I still play a great deal of Ace Combat). While I've owned a number of sticks over the years, my current favourite is the Hori Flightstick II that shipped with the special editions of AC5. Before this I used a Microsoft Force Feedback 2, which had an extremely heavy base. You would use your weak hand for the throttle control at the base of the stick and your dominant hand for the stick itself. The weight of the base was sufficient.
The Hori sticks are quite light, and therefore come with suction cups on the bottom. This actually works quite well, provided whatever surface to which you intend to affix them is smooth. My coffee table and desk (both fairly standard Ikea fare) are "textured" slightly, and the sticks will not stay in place. The worst is the left hand throttle control. I prefer to adjust my throttle to have a lot of friction (there's an adjustment on the bottom of the unit), but this means that throttling up often results in me just shoving the whole stick forward instead.
My current solution is that I have both of them mounted on a pane of glass that used to be a door for an entertainment unit that I no longer use. I've stuck some rubber feet on it to protect the surface of the table or desk, and to keep it sliding around. This works perfectly while playing, but just as the parent post suggested, this hack of a base for my sticks is big, and not very mobile. They sit, always stuck to the glass, rather conspicuously beside my entertainment unit. It's an okay solution, but quite annoying.
I seriously doubt that anyone other than flight game addicts like myself would be willing to put up with it.
OK, everyone seems to be talking about THEIR joystick, and for some people it's "analog" whereas for others its "digital."
Both have been around since the dawn of modern gaming, and both had their place.
Digital joysticks, i.e. ones with four (or sometimes eight) discrete position switches, have mostly been replaced by gamepads of some form or keyboards. Really, they were no more than custom-purpose keyboards themselves. Moving in a direction consisted of "hold the button down until you're where you want to be." Most of the continued existence of these 'classic' joysticks is from nostalgia, although modern game controllers certainly can trace their lineage back to them.
Analog joysticks are a different beast entirely, with either pots or digital encoders on two axes, for continuous range-of-motion detection. These are essential for flight sims, and are not at all endangered. As long as we have (good) flight sims, we'll have analog joysticks.
As an aside, stick-less joysticks have been around just about as long as joysticks. Does anyone else remember the Intellivision controllers?
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My grandfather was an engineer for IBM for about 30 years (he retired before the first IBM PC was released) and would call joysticks "joey sticks". If I tried to correct him he would just give me a strange look. Anybody else ever hear joysticks referred to this as a joey stick?
"UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity." -Dennis Ritchie
Does anyone remember the Fairchild gaming system from the dark ages? It had a nifty controller...It was about the size of a hot dog and bun. You held the 'bun' in your sub-dominant hand. Out of the top on a short stalk was this triangular bit that you grasped with the other hand. It moved in the normal manner of a joystick, plus, you had the extra dimensions of push down, pull up, twist left, and twist right.
I can't remember any game I ever played on it, or even what the console looked like. But I do remember that controller for some reason.
I've gone through 4 or 5 joysticks as the result of the Descent series. If you wanted to be taken seriously in multiplayer you had to have a good joystick with a 8-direction hat and loads of buttons. It's such a shame that the 6-degrees-of-motion genre has essentially disappeared.
I still occasionally use my wireless logitech when playing BF2, but ever since they nerfed heli's I stopped playing the game.
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game
It's sitting right here, I use it every time I play a flight sim.
Absolutely, it's all about games like Descent. Without a game like Descent, a joystick is really the worst control device available. There's no need for a joystick if there's no need for a true analog control. ...and by true analog, I don't mean those little thumb things. They design them so that from the center position, you have to move them quite a bit before the game picks up on the fact that they've been moved. They did this so that you don't have to calibrate them, but it also essentially turns them into digital controls. Ever try making fine movements with them? You move your thumb a little, only to see no response, so you move it moreso thinking that your small movement was nowhere near large enough, only to find yourself turning at some ridiculous speed. This makes the thumb-style things useless for a game like Descent.
For Descent I and II, what worked best for me was two cheap two-button analog joysticks on the game port. I'd set the one on the right to turn the ship, the one on the left to throttle and left-right sliding, the left buttons controlled up-down sliding, and the right buttons controlled firing and banking. For the other stuff, I put the keyboard on the floor and used my feet. It took hours to learn this configuration since at first I kept moving the wrong joystick, but once I learned it, I was unstoppable. It was just too easy to play against other people since I could fly in circles around them while continuing to aim at them, whereas the couldn't move and aim at the same time, so I was a constantly moving target, while they just stayed in one place. To make things a fair match, I always just used flares and let the other person use whatever weapons they wanted. Having proper controls makes that much of a difference.
Of course, just the other day I tried Descent 3. Never did before since it was Windows-only and I was anti-Windows up until a month ago. It seems the game has built into it that it treats analog joysticks just like the little thumb pads, where there's a dead spot in the center of them and you have to move them pretty far before there's any response. As such, it's difficult to do anything that requires fine adjustments of the flight path, and so it's no surprise to me that Descent 3 sold poorly enough that they canceled Descent 4. Without correct analog controls, the game is just plain too difficult to play.
I remembering doing moves in Descent that would been impossible on a regular joystick. It was $100 though and it broke all the time too.
The joystick went out with the gear shift. (of course they still have gear shifts, but they also still have joysticks)
You could say the wii-mote is a modernized joystick, giving the same kind of sense of motion to correllate to what happens onscreen.
On this day, Valentines, you had to ask that question? Is this some sort of joke!?! ;-)
You never saw a fish on the wall with its mouth shut.
Go to play-asia and search for HORI sticks, they make one for pretty much any system you can think of. Fans of certain genres are going to always prefer arcade-style sticks, particularly people who play fighting games.
hot foreign sheep.
I think the demise of the joystick tracks the movement of gaming from a niche activity to the mainstream.
Specialized peripherals such as joysticks, driving wheels, trackballs, arcade knobs, and spinners are ideal for the specific game genres that need them, while gamepads (and on the PC, keyboard/mouse) are good enough in every genre while excelling in almost none of them.
The Atari 2600 was the first and last console to use a joystick instead of a gamepad, and that only because the gamepad hadn't been invented yet. If you look at the vast majority of Atari 2600 games, you'll find that they would have worked better with a gamepad.
So for inexpensive mainstream gaming, the default controller was always going to be something like a gamepad.
If you look at the PC side, it started as a niche market; you pretty much had to be a nerd to own one and be capable of operating it, and to game on one made you even more of a nerd. Marketing specialized peripherals to technophiles is easy. Marketing them to people who (as computers became cheaper and easier to use) bought computers for Internet connectivity and word processing and other practical purposes is considerably more difficult.
What's a joystick specialized for? Flight and space sims (including mechs). Some would say fighting games as well, though the preferred peripheral there is actually the arcade knob.
Those of us who enjoy flight sims sometimes have trouble grasping just how unnatural an act flying is for most people. The controls don't do what they would expect, and managing the flight envelope while trying to fight is just too alien.
And flight sims are complex beasts that require managing a myriad of controls and instruments. This is even true for some space sims - energy management in the X-Wing series is a good example. This begins to pass what most would consider play into the realm of work. Only the true fans will find joy in this kind of activity.
Joysticks have always been a niche market; it's just that PC gaming's earlier days were entirely the same niche market, so joysticks naturally dominated there. Now that gaming (both PC and console) is a more mainstream activity, game producers choose to produce games that target that mainstream, and one of the ways they do that is by making games that work well with the platform's default peripherals. That's why the last three significant PC space sims - Freelancer, Eve Online and Dark Star One - are designed for mouse and keyboard; the first two can't even be played with a joystick.
There is still a place for the joystick - committed flight sim fans will still want one (IL-2 Sturmovik, Pacific Fighters, Lock-On, Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator, and so on), it works well in games that have flying portions (like Battlefield), and games like Ace Combat 5 and 6 offered them as an optional add-on, but that place will remain as a niche peripheral for the forseeable future.
Hans
Just take this link and see where the joystick is...
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/19/xbox-360-arcade-stick/
In all it's Xbox 360 glory.
My family had two of those for our Commodore 64s. When I was little we played those games 'till half the disks and joysticks gave out. Good times!
What about the entire flight simulation community? It's pretty big, and almost everyone uses a joystick to do it. It just doesn't work with a keyboard, and using a controller sucks too.
:(){
What about the paddle wheel?
The last time I used a joystick as the exclusive interface for a console was the Atari. Since then, games have grown more sophisticated, and require a more sophisticated interface, not because a more sophisticated interface is most appropriate to the game at hand, but because it's more versatile.
Take driving games, for instance. Using a steering column is a more natural interface for them. But you can only use that interface for the driving game, not for an FPS. So as a developer, which would you rather code for, a single-use interface, or one that bridges the game universe for a given console?
Sure, for nostalgia's sake I miss the good ole days of playing Star Command on a joystick. But I would trade that innocent fun for the immersive experience of GTA on a PS?/Xbox*/Wii any day.
In like fashion I long ago abandoned the paddle wheel used for Pong. It carries fond memories, sure, but after Breakout it ceased to be relevant.
Fun and playability are the constants, to my mind. Focus on those, less on eulogies for lost interfaces.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
/disagree
The DualShock form factor is the most comfortable (official, non-crazy ergonomic 3rd party) video game controller I've ever held. All buttons are easily reachable without finger contortions, fits great in your hands, feels "natural", etc. I am but one data point, but I've never known anyone among my gamer friends (who are all now approaching 30) who disliked the feel, and I've played many thousands of hours on the original (!) controller that came with the system in 2000.
Back to Joysticks: My favorite part about the DualShock are the analog sticks. Since the sticks are very short and end in what is a hemisphere that "slides" around on a virtual sphere underneath it (using springs and such), you get what is essentially a "short-throw" joystick that is impossible to create in a traditional joystick configuration (a la the N64 controller). Much more stable, smooth, etc that a normal joystick.
Seriously, compare the joystick on an N64 controller with the DualShock sticks, there's just no comparison.
With the first link, the chain is forged.
I have a sidewinder precision pro, the first one without force feedback. I've had it for quite a long time now and it still works great. I use it occasionally in FPS like battlefield 2 when I have to fly a helicopter or airplane and all the time in flight simulators and space simulators. Sadly, the space sim genre seems to be dying out. :(
Weaksauce as they say...
What happened to flight sim games? When graphics got good, people realized that rather realistic flight simulators were possible. And so they went for it.
People who love flight SIMULATORS are having a field day right now.
Those of us who are a lot more interested in playing a video GAME than pretending like we're in an airplane, though, are left holding the bag--it's hard to make a dogfighting game pseudo-realistic and fun, especially when corporate knows that there's plenty of 40 year olds out there who love pretending to fly on their computers, certainly enough to pay the bills.
The last fun dogfight game I remember was Starfox 2. And it wasn't fun for that long. But at least it wasn't realistic.
How appropriate. Lots of /.ers will be giving theirs a workout tonight.
'mmmmmmmmm.... forbidden donut'
Lack of joysticks these days is one of the reasons I gave up on consoles (until the Wii). Those...things that you control with your thumb are not joysticks. I can't understand how in the hell that was supposed to be better.
My thumbs are.. all thumbs. I mean seriously, that phrase came about because thumbs just aren't very precise in their movement. But all you kids who had NESes before puberty all have that "mutation" that was talked about here on Slashdot a while back which allows you to use your thumb as a precision input device instead of your index fingers. Which also explains how in the hell you manage to text from a cell phone.
Oh and what is it with you folks who say FPS games were best used with "keyboard and mouse"? I was never much into FPS games, but the only really usable configuration was "joystick and mouse". You suction-cupped the joystick onto your desk (your joystick did have suction-cups, right?) for your left hand and mapped the trigger and/or top buttons to things like jump or crouch (the buttons on the joystick base were clearly unusable). Then you put the mouse under your right hand, as usual. This way, you had good coarse analog control of your movement with your left hand, and fine precision analog aiming with your right hand.
Now everyone get off my lawn.
Basically, you point to your target and the ship turns in that direction.
It's really a better way to play than using the joystick.
I beg to differ. If you've ever played Freespace with a Joystick with a twist grip, you'll know that a mouse is a lousy second-place effort. Being able to track ships at high speed and rotate your own ship to provide a better fire path at the same time is the only way to frag in space.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
Frankly the joystick was too phallic. Too many nerds already felt/feel bad about masturbating too much. The irony of having a plastic stick on their crotch that they jerk around all day was too much, especially for their mothers, who'd prefer they get a girlfriend and a real job instead of playing "flight" simulators all day.
I personally can't stand those little thumb joysticks.
Why? Because they have no precision. Your thumb is very poor at making small changes, especially when targeting someone. Try playing Unreal Tournament for instance on a console and then with a mouse. Your thumb also doesn't move in all directions as easily, so there's another problem.
There's a reason all of the serious online gamers use PCs - a console controller won't cut it. When the difference between headshotting someone is 3-4 pixels in hi-def, well, good luck on a PS3.(note all PC games and monitors are already more than 720P capable unless the programmers sucked) 1280*1024 is considered medium resolution in fact by most PC gamers.
I have dozens of games that require a joystick - a real one. I also have a dedicated steering wheel. They have specific uses that can't be replicated with any other controller. Need for Speed alone is night and day on the console versus a good force feedback wheel with a clutch pedal and shifter. Yes, there are two wheels that have an optional clutch pedal.
You also can't possibly play a game like Mechwarrior or X3 without one. Not unless you want to die over and over again. There's a reason why fighter planes use them and it's also why even 50 years from now, there still will be games that require them.
I personally hate articles like this. Maybe to the author it seems like they are outdated technology, but they still exist and there is no substitute for them, just like there isn't a good one for the mouse on your PC. Each serves a specific role that's not going to be served by another device.
A quick search Best Buy turned up 5 models alone. Dead and gone? Hardly.
P.S. I just played Tie Fighter in XP last night for some nostalgia. LucasArts released a patch in 2004 that makes all of the old games work perfectly with XP and 2K. You need the latest versions of the game(X-Wing Trilogy) and a patch, but it all works perfectly.
I got a copy myself so that my son could play the Star Wars titles to get up to speed as it were.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000050I88?tag=thearmchairem-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=B000050I88&adid=1KBTT1SXX3J1M796A6WE&
Worth every penny.
http://www.lucasfiles.com/index.php?action=file&id=653
Here's the patch. Technically it will work with the W95 collector's editions, but they aren't as polished and the 3D engine they added to the trilogy edition makes it actually look good - perfectly playable, in fact. 640*480*32bit color with texture mapping. If you never saw the original X-Wing with the rendering engine from Alliance, do yourself a favor and check it out.
...at least 4 times a week for common pleasure.
--
Valentine insanity caused the above statement, this guy is not married.
The games have simply changed. Joysticks are great when you're moving a sprite around a 2D map. They're also great for flight simulators. Both of which are almost obsolete as far as major releases go. The only time I use my joystick is when I hop into a chopper when playing Battlefield 2 or 2142.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Hello,
I am curious: what kind of rig you are using to run X-Plane on Linux? Are you using Wine or Cedega? Or is there some X-Plane Linux binary I missed from their website. Thanks for any info.
Nothing beats a fun round of Warlords against 3 friends.
//, and countless Pong clones.
To me, the paddle is an underrated controler that could have had more games made for it. Just as how joysticks evolved to thumbsticks(and then grew a buncha buttons), sadly, the paddle de-evolved to the steering wheel controller. To me, the paddle(with 360 motion, don't put a stop on it!) is a fun peripheral for games. There's one that was released for the Xbox 360 as part of some arcade stick, the Arkanoid controller for the NES, the paddles for the Atari 2600(+ the indy 500 controller), paddles for the Apple
I'm surprised Nintendo didn't come up with one for Arkanoid-like games(as well as driving & shoot 'em up) you plug into the Wii port.
Better yet, have a toggleable 8-direction lock on it, so you can play Heavy Barrel & Ikari Warriors-style games, provided the controller doesnt take up both hands.
And between the "G", "H" and "B" keys on ThinkPad keyboards.
---anactofgod---
"Equal opportunity swindling - *that* is the true test of a sustainable democracy."
I feel that using a keyboard for any sort of game input aside from text is a gigantic step backwards in game interface (not unlike using a number pad for text input, which is arguably not unlike using a joystick for the purpose). I use a joystick in as many PC games as I can, though it invariably requires a lot of fiddling because few games support joystick input at all, and most that do, do so poorly. I usually have to spend an afternoon fine-tuning sensitivity and dead zone for every new game before I can even begin to map out buttons to an optimal configuration. Most games don't have much sense of movement speed (3 speeds: standing still, walking, and running via a modifier key or autorun), so the WASD or arrow keys seem just fine; this actually makes joystick configuration easy because I can map the axes to said keystrokes. The limitation of WASD becomes apparent in games (like most first-person shooters) where sometimes it might be better to tiptoe than to sprint.
I occasionally catch flak about using a joystick, but from people who forgot one thing: I still have two hands and can use a mouse at the same time. For example, in FPS, I use the joystick in my left hand (forward, backward, strafe, fire) and the mouse in my right (aim/look, jump, duck). This actually works well because I can aim with one hand and pull the trigger with the other so I don't jostle my aim with the action of firing. The obvious limitation, however, is the rarity of left-handed or ambidextrous joysticks. I'm a lefty myself, though I've learned to use a mouse in my right hand due to the ubiquitousness of closed-minded righties (not to mention technophobic schoolteachers who were afraid I would "break" the computer by using the mouse in my left hand).
Another advantage of using a joystick over WASD is that it doesn't aggravate my carpal tunnel syndrome. (Yes, I'm aware that joystick use comes with its own set of orthopedic disorders.)
I currently own a Logitech Attack 3, but I plan to upgrade to a Saitek Cyborg EVO, if for no other reason than to have a hat switch. My goal is to see how effectively I can play WoW with joystick and mouse. Wish me luck.
As someone who frequents arcades to play fighting games, Joysticks have NEVER left my life, nor will they ever. Its the only good way to play a fighting game.
with the Atari 2600. Even as a child I played Atari 2600 games with my thumb on the top of the stick, and it didn't take long before a smaller pad was released. The controller I am referring to was black and had a red stick that was part of a dome shaped piece of plastic, and had red buttons on both side of the controller. Does anyone else remember these? They had an egg like shape and were extremely easy to hold in one hand and control the stick with your thumb.
-==- Buy a Mac and leave me alone!
From memory is sitting up on my book shelf. The last time I used it was in 1995, whilst playing MS Flight Simulator. SIDEWINDER PRO. It had everything. Everything I tell ya.
8 buttons and a throttle. Nothing could stop me with this baby. Well, that's what I thought, until I realised how utterly fucking boring flight simulators can be. Needless to say, after flying from Sydney to Brisbane over 3 hours, the joystick was shelved, and it was back to ASDW and Duke Nukem 3D for me. "Shake it Baby"...
"You wanna dance?"
I'd also just like toss a nod to Jedi Knight I and II for being the only First Person Shooters that I know of that were fun to play with a joystick.
Sensible Soccer + Amiga 500 + two Bug joysticks = good times, good times.
Still have my Cyborg 2000. It still works great. I like how adjustable it is.
.. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
Seriously, most computer games are still purchased in brick&mortar stores. If there were another huge games that called for the use of a joystick, you know there would be a bundle of the game with the joystick. Odds are they wouldn't be in the same packaging, but the manufacturers would discount the purchase of both the game and a selection of joysticks.
I've been thinking about getting a joystick lately, for the sole purpose of flight simulators (combat & non-combat.) But Microsoft Flight Simulator X (Delux) is still $50, and it's been out for a year and a half! And, unsurprisingly, if you buy it on Amazon (for $45,) they are offering a discount bundle of the game with, that's right, a joystick.
Both of my PC's have a joystick. Mainly for racing games (but i'll admit to having FS 2004 installed) even tho i have a full-size wheel/pedal/seat set-up. It is hard to type from the seat as the keyboard placement is awkward. Plus i need to swap monitor cables or invest in a KVM switch. Also it is cold down near the floor in winter, hehe.
;)
Much easier to move the joystick from on top of the computer to in front of it.... and the $35 joystick gives as good of control as a $100+ wheel. I found the really cheap wheels only annoy me.
Don't play a console enough to worry about controller. More of a party type thing and don't want multiple ones for that to keep it fair. Even tho that is how the 2 computers are set up
... which have been steadily disappearing as well. So much for gender equity in the gaming world...
I remember playing Wolfenstein 3D and Doom using the joystick until the true 3D shooters made it pretty much impractical compared to lining up shots with the mouse. It was very satisfying to have that trigger finger... much better than devolving the FPS into a "point-n-click" frenzy.
Oh well, I suppose with advances in controls, everything will be replaced by a mouse eventually... You'll have a little tiptronic rock pad instead of a stickshift in a car, you'll aim and shoot guns with a touchscreen and stylus, and you'll land an airplane by clicking your mouse on the end of the runway, Starcraft-style.
The metal shaft fatigued and literally snapped off at the base, after a year or so's (not particularly heavy) use of each. Or I was just unlucky with defects in the metal.
I did like the stick a lot though.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
I completely disagree. I actually think the ps2 controller is the pinnacle of controller excellence. They're perfect in every way. My hands have never hurt using the ps2 controller, and I've played numerous extended overnight sessions lasting close to 20 hours (e.g. ssx tricky, one for each Ratchet game, one for each Jak & Daxter game).
;) )
For comparison reference (*): My palms are about 3.25" wide, and my middle finger is about 3.25" long. Outstretched thumb-to-pointer is about 6.75"; outstretched thumb-to-pinkie diagonal is about 8.25". For my hand size, the ps2 is absolute perfection.
(* = Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not going to tell you the size of my "member," which is also perfect in size
I think i went through a MS sidewinder pro each for Mech2, Mech2GB and Mech2Mercs. Before i got into FPSs i couldnt play those without one, always losing track of where the mech was heading vs where the torso was pointed, since with the joystick you could just twist the thing and it would control the torso independantly, plus the slider switch for speed control, tap it back to go in reverse... Wheres my Win98 laptop with Mercs on it.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Well, since there are no FS like those from Microprose, or Space stuff like Wing Commander or Tie Fighter out there anymore, and everyone plays only FPS, there is no need for joysticks
"Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
It doesn't do too much for me, but if I were a girl, I see how I'd like joysticks best, especially if equipped with force feedback.
I was about to say 13256278887989457651018865901401704640, but it appears this number is private property.
Most people who play flying games (like Battlefield 1942, or more realistic flying simulations like FlightGear, MS Flight Simulator, etc.) prefer Joysticks, because it is the only input device that is really suitable for flight simulations.
Personally, I have three joysticks:
1. A Logitech Force 3D (which broke once because of poorly designed mechanics, but I was able to repair it), mainly used for flying helicopter in BF Vietnam
2. A Saitek X52 Pro, used for flying planes in BF 1942 and anything in Flight Simulator 2004
3. A custom built repro of a Bell JetRanger's controls, used for flying the helicopters in Flight Simulator 2004
Another funny thing is my Futaba T4EX remote control (for RC models), which can be connected to the computer via USB. I use this one for flying helicopters in FMS.
Now I still have a couple of joysticks sitting somewhere in the closet, but the real thing was SpaceOrb. Nothing ever beat that for free flight games such as Descent.
"these have been integral to joypads since the original PlayStation" What about the N64? How can you attribute thumb sticks to the PS1 when they started out with only a D-pad and then added thumb sticks to compete with the N64?
Ominous Cow is absolutely right. The Stelladaptor is worth every penny, and works flawlessly. I primarily use it with Stella and Power64, but it works in other apps as well.
As a kid I went through countless Atari CX-40 joysticks. They were perfect for my hand, but obviously not designed to last. Eventually I managed to talk my parents into splurging for an Epyx 500XJ (making sure to get the Atari one, not the visually identical serial port PC version). The fire button placement isn't ideal, but the tactile response of the microswitches is wonderful, and 25 years later it *still* works perfectly!
Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
It looks like the Stelladaptor is currently out of stock, but hopefully that's just a temporary issue.
Also, I forgot to mention that you may want to grab one of the game pad utilities from http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/games/utilities/ . I use GamePad Companion, which allows you to map game controller functions to just about anything. I don't think that Power64 needs that however, as long as you set it to enable USB joysticks and then calibrate it.
Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
WTF is an "Amigar"??
If you do any piloting at all in a simulation (even ground vehicles) a joystick is indispensable. Mice and game pads don't hack it.
Given the number of flight/combat sims out there and the average player base, I would agree this is probably a niche market.
I've seen many very bad pilots who were obviously using a mouse or game pad to try to fly. They usually go down in flames and frustration.
The joystick is alive and well - you just have to know where to look.
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
It got killed by the gamepad and the death of the flight/space sim. The gamepad was a superior replacement for anything other than the aforementioned flight/space sims, and when those went away, so did the joystick.
Absolutely. I've had my Epyx 500XJ for 25 years and it still performs flawlessly!
Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
Dunno, got a Logitech Attack-III that works just fine. (It's not terribly expensive either.) I don't think it's going anywhere. Apparently someone hasn't looked beyond most console or twitch games where a stick isn't so great. However when you need the control resolution to operate an aircraft (or spaceship) properly in a game, those little nubbin sticks don't do the job. So for flight sims or when hopping in a flying vehicle in a FPS that features them such as Battlefield - the joystick is still hard to pass up.
If there's a gaming controller where people should wonder whatever the hell happened to it - look up the paddle controller. Those are long overdue for a comeback - maybe not for pong or tennis, but I'd like to see a proper handheld controller designed for driving games. Right now the only choices are a huge clunky non-portable wheel rig or difficult little analog nubbin sticks on a gamepad (not enough fine control). So you can go for controlability for sake of portability or vice versa. A paddle designed similar to a proportional steering R/C controller could provide the best of both worlds. (Good steering resolution and could easily fit in a backpack with the laptop or console box.) Yet nobody seems willing to make one. Why?
I recently bought a HOTAS (Hand On Throttle And Stick) Saitek joystick for playing Flight Simulators.
Flight sims have never been more realistic, but where they were once one of the greatest genres of PC gaming, now they've really fallen by the wayside.
Having said that, every gamepad out there now seems to have two little joysticks, so what are people going on about?
Joysticks are a clumsy way to play a lot of games, though. RTS? No joystick. FPS? No joystick. Third person? No joystick. This makes me wonder, if the joystick is such a weak control mechanism for anything, but, well, flightsims, why do consoles use two of them? Give me the perfect mouse + keyboard combo anyday.
I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.