How to Convert Your HD-DVD Discs to Blu-Ray

eldavojohn writes "Are you one of the few who boarded the HD-DVD Titanic ship headed to the bottom of ocean to join BetaMax? Fret no longer, friend, simply convert those and pretend like you never invested in the wrong technology! All you need is a Windows machine with a fast processor, an HD-DVD drive, a Blu-Ray burner, 30GB of free disk space, at least, though 40GB or more is recommended and an internet connection to download the software! Or you can sit and be the crazy guy who continues to argue that HD-DVD is the superior technology whether it's true or not."

Comments

Get a pen

[CRCulver]

This green marker I just bought at an audiophile shop for only a couple of hundred dollars (it was on sale!) is said to not only convert HD-DVD to Blu-Ray, but straighten the bits out so that my Dolby Surround sounds truly true-to-life. Now it's time to try it out.

Re:Get a pen

[llZENll]

I can suggest another awesome upgrade, this $1700 power cable http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PSPREPC&variation=2.0, upgrade that normal power cable which powers your player and experience true video and audio nirvana, it really does work! Never mind the 500ft of unshielded romex inside your wall, its truley the last 6ft of power cord that does make the difference you will see and hear!

Seriously if I ever see one of these in real life that someone has bought I will bitchslap them.

Re:Get a pen

[NC-17]

Brilliant pebbles. http://machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm

Also, codename turquoise. http://machinadynamica.com/machina34.htm

Yeah... Get out your bitchslapping hand.

Re:Get a pen

[Brian Gordon]

(the product is blue construction paper that you cut out and glue to the cd tray)

Normally, it is a somewhat laid back player. Not anymore. The music is so very much more alive, with detail now more up there with the rest of the music, making for a powerful and dynamic listening experience. I also feared that cutting the paper to fit would be a difficult job. Wrong again! I just had to experiment with laying the pieces on the tray in various ways then I knew what to do. Thanks so much for this incredible improvement! If I hadn't heard it myself I'd have thought it impossible. I've long known stray laser light was a problem but never did I imagine that so much comes off the cd tray.

I think.. I think I want to cry. Pardon me-

Re:Get a pen

[Anonymous Coward]

The joke went over your head. This site *satirizes* $1700 power cable "audiophiles."

Re:Get a pen

[xaxa]

I like this bit:

Removable Ground Pin
The ground pin on a power cable is there to tie the ground of the AC receptacle to your equipment. However, in some cases, this ground pin can cause a ground loop and introduce hum and buzz in your system. AV enthusiasts often use an inexpensive three-prong-to-two-prong adapter 'cheater plug' to solve this problem and break the ground loop. Unfortunately, this adapter ruins many of the benefits of a high-end power cable like the xStream.
PS engineers invented a better way. Their elegant solution is incredibly user friendly. They added a screw-in ground pin. Normally, you would leave this alone. Should your system have a ground loop problem that is causing hum or buzz in the loudspeakers, however, simply unscrew the ground pin of the xStream and the buzz is gone. Nothing could be easier, and this approach preserves the integrity of the xStream and its connection to your AC power source.

If there's a buzz because of the ground pin, would that mean the equipment is unsafe? Probably because of the $400 wooden control knob mod going wrong.

Re:Get a pen

[cmacb]

Can't you just put them in the microwave and achieve the same results quicker?

So, at what point I wonder does Microsoft announce another version of the XBox? Or are they all already too broken from overheating for anyone to care?

Re:Get a pen

[corky842]

I'm pretty sure that site is a joke. At least, I hope it's a joke.

What's with all the offtopic mods lately?

Re:Get a pen

[k_187]

The biggest problem with the internet is when you can't tell if the fake things are real or if the real things are fake.

Re:Get a pen

[Ucklak]

That would be $1,793.00 of pure power from romex to device.

At least it is made of silver and at $17.91/oz, that's about a 6lb cable.

Re:Get a pen

[Ucklak]

That $1793 of pure power, romex to device.

At least it's made of silver and at $17.91/oz, that should be a 6lb. cable.

Re:Get a pen

[HAKdragon]

Why would they need to introduce a new version of the Xbox 360? The HD-DVD player for it was an add-on, external drive. All 360s use DVD as the built in drive and as the medium for games.

Re:Get a pen

[RedK]

Bah, 1,793$ power cords are for chumps. This 12', 7,250$ speaker cable pair is what you really need :

http://www.pearcable.com/sub_products_anjou_sc.htm

Re:Get a pen

[Chrutil]

>> Never mind the 500ft of unshielded romex inside your wall, its truley the last 6ft of power cord that does make the difference you will see and hear!

Actually you wouldn't run one of those from the wall - you'd have a virtual battery style power conditioner that give you a practically perfect waveform - and then you run a good power cable to your equipment. Probably not a $1700 one, but at least a good one.

Re:Get a pen

[JensenDied]

Can you prove that is both real, and a problem?

Re:Get a pen

[CodeBuster]

This must be what they mean when they say, "The fool and his money are soon parted."

Re:Get a pen

[shawb]

60Hz (depending on the power source) hum in audio equipment is quite common, and not actually a sign of a bad ground. Removing the ground pin is the wrong way to fix it.

The hum occurs because of an amplified ground loop. A ground loop is formed when the output of a grounded audio device is passed into an amplifier connected to the same ground. Shielded cabling will then ground the chaises of the signal device and the amplifier together, creating a closed loop between the devices and the electrical earth. This closed loop can then build up a 60hz cycle, I believe through induction with the power mains, but have not found a definitive answer. Normally this cycle is not enough to be electrically significant, except it is passed through an amplifier along with the desired signal. Removing the ground pin from one device will indeed open the circuit, preventing the ground loop from being able to cause a hum.

However, as you surmised, disconnecting the ground from an electrical device can be dangerous. The accepted way to open the circuit is by breaking the ground connection between the amplifier and the signal device, generally at the amplifier rather than the signal source. Doing so will essentially eliminate the effectiveness of the cable shielding, but will also eliminate the loud 60hz hum which is generally much louder than any electrical interference you will find. However, the electrical ground of your electronics will not be compromised, saving the equipment and operator from damage in the case of a malfunction.

Re:Get a pen

[vikstar]

Not that I'm into that sort of crap, but isn't that power cord supposed to be used between a power stabilizer and the appliance? In which case it would make a difference, I guess.

Re:Get a pen

[phoenixwade]

I'm pretty sure that site is a joke. At least, I hope it's a joke.

What's with all the offtopic mods lately?

Ummm - Tell you what, take your credit card out and try to buy one.... heh.... they've been in a battle with James Randi for a while now, and P.T. Barnum is trying to get reincarnated to get in on the AudioPhile action...

Re:Get a pen

[Carnivore]

And you'd be pretty cheap unless you bought these Awesome $23k cables. You are man enough to afford these, right? I mean, everyone who doesn't suck has these.

Re:Get a pen

[Darinbob]

can suggest another awesome upgrade, this $1700 power cable

OMG! That would go great with my e-meter! I just wasn't getting the results as claimed, and I'm sure it's due to the power cable distorting the dynamics. I just can't decide on the 1 meter cord, or splurge for the 2 meter cord for twice the goodness.

Re:Get a pen

[UnknownSoldier]

You mean like "Chicken of the Sea" ?

--
Mind, not Space, is the Final Frontier.

Re:Get a pen

[h3llfish]

>> disconnecting the ground from an electrical device can be dangerous. Yeah, I found that out the hard way. Back in my younger and stupider rock band days, I got a nice shock on the lips by playing electric guitar and then singing into a mic. It was an old house that didn't have 3 pronged outlets, so we just got those little grey adapters that defeat the ground. It hummed like crazy, and was a bit too "shocky" for my tastes.

I had a conversation with my electrical engineer father, asking him about what might have gone wrong, and after he was done slapping me for being so stupid, he gave me the exact same informative lecture that's in the parent post.

Shawb, I hope you saved the lips of some young rawker somewhere from an unpleasant surprise. An easy way to sidestep the issue is to use a wireless guitar rig... but that introduces a whole new set of issues.

Re:Get a pen

[John_Booty]

I can suggest another awesome upgrade, this $1700 power cable http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PSPREPC&variation=2.0, upgrade that normal power cable which powers your player and experience true video and audio nirvana, it really does work! Never mind the 500ft of unshielded romex inside your wall, its truley the last 6ft of power cord that does make the difference you will see and hear!

I'm not sure how well that thing moves electrons around, but when it comes to moving money out of your wallet it's practically a superconductor!

Re:Get a pen

[jjackson]

I... I... I... just lost about 50 IQ points reading over the page. I had to do about 20 double takes to convince myself that I was actually looking at a power cable for a 120v AC piece of equipment. You think it might be fake - but no, the site is chock full of such devices at prices that would make Bill Gates himself blush.

The gene pool needs a few gallons of Bleach added.

I think I am actually "dumber" after learning that horse shit like that is actually being sold.

Re:Get a pen

[Agripa]

RS-232 and RS-422 data cables often have the shield connected only at one end and separate from the signal ground to prevent conducted interference from coupling to the signal wires. Single ended audio cables are always going to be susceptible to ground loops whether they are shielded or not. It is not the shield itself causing the problem but the difference in ground potential between two difference pieces of equipment when ground is used as the reference for the audio signal. In extreme cases, the ground difference can blow the signal ground where it is weakest like on the pc board where the trace meets the connector.

The solutions for audio ground loops include using a star ground for all of the equipment, using balanced connections, or using some form of signal ground isolation. My own favorite solutions are to use a controlled current source for the line driver (audio cable shielding now becomes more important) or use an instrumentation amplifier on the receive side to subtract the ground noise or sometimes both.

Re:Get a pen

[Anonymous Coward]

My coworker actually know a retard who bought something like that

Re:Get a pen

[aim2future]

The hum occurs because of an amplified ground loop.

This reminds me about my first amplifier building project I did when I was 14. The first approach was a combined pre-amplifier and power amplifier.

To get rid of the hum I tried to install several anti-hum loops that should counteract the hum induced by hum-loops.

This succeeded quite well, and I was finally quite pleased with the sound, for a short while... I couldn't understand why it still used so much power and turned hot despite I wasn't playing. When I checked with the oscilloscope I noticed a high amplitude high frequency oscillation. After a short while both power amplifiers self destructed. Now I also understood the reason for some capacitors I had skipped... because those would decrease the bandwidth...

After that I realized that it's quite hard to put both pre- and power ampliefier in the same box due to hum and I built new power amplifiers in a separate box, and I could remove the anti hum loops.

Re:Get a pen

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, because the wiring INSIDE the device receiving the power is also filled with silver, not that nasty copper stuff.

Re:Get a pen

[kingturkey]

That reminds me of an alt text from xkcd:

Fun game: try to post a YouTube comment so stupid that people realize you must be joking. (Hint: this is impossible)

Re:Get a pen

[Karel Jansens]

If that's truly what you think, then maybe the problem isn't so much with the Internet...

Re:Get a pen

[Anonymous Coward]

Not just the internet...women, too!

Re:Get a pen

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't click on link, it's goatse.

Re:Get a pen

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no spoon...

Re:Get a pen

[hesiod]

And not very well, I might add -- usually when you do something like that you go overboard. But every item listed on there sounds like something some jackass is willing to sell to some schmuck who will buy it and really believe it works. BTW, this is not intended as an insult to the site creator, but more to the "audiophile" jackasses who really believe that kind of stuff makes a shred of difference.

Re:Get a pen

[TWX]

...more to the "audiophile" jackasses who really believe that kind of stuff makes a shred of difference.

Yep! The weirdest that I get is to have a few spare ferrite beads on some of the cabling in my system that I had laying around from old PC equipment, and I'll readily admit that I don't know if they amount to a hill of beans' difference even. They're on there because I already had them laying around and because they didn't seem to make things worse. The house actually was pre-wired by the previous owner with a separate, conduited electrical run from the panel to the AV area anyway, and I just made sure to buy speakers that produced good sound in the volume range that I actually expect myself to use, to use an amp that has decent electronics, to verify that the speakers are balanced properly and are located in good spots in the room, and to use as much optical cable as I have devices.

Now I can go home and watch Mr. Nice Guy with awesome Dolby AC3 surround from my Laserdisc player!

Re:Get a pen

[SlippyToad]

Oh. My. God. Proof positive that a fool and his money are soon parted.

The "review" of the cable said that it was good because he was tapping his foot to the music! Yes! Tapping his motherfucking foot!

Re:Get a pen

[mstahl]

I have a fantastic plan. Why don't these people just give me their money.

Re:Get a pen

[Anonymous Coward]

I just felt a disturbance in the marketplace, as if online retailers still sold HD DVD players but now for a substantial discount. A-ha! (price has been fluctuating between $99-$125 the past two weeks)

This... news... why?

[wattrlz]

I seem to recall it was possible to dub your beta tapes to vhs back in the day too.

Re:This... news... why?

[timeOday]

That was pre-DRM. It's pretty darn lucky the DRM on HD-DVD is flawed or they'd really be worthless now.

Oh is that all

[Anonymous Coward]

Well as long as thats ALL you need.

I dont have price quotes and I'm too lazy to look them up but I'm pretty sure that Blu-Ray burners run about $500. I have no idea how much an HD-DVD ROM drive would go for, probably pretty reasonable now that its a defunct format.

So unless you bought a copy of every HD-DVD that is out I dont think this is cost effective.

Re:Oh is that all

[Brian Gordon]

Or just rip the disks and compress them..

Re:Oh is that all

[gEvil (beta)]

And don't forget that the blank BD media only runs about $15-25 a piece, too. That coupled with the hardware costs for the drives means you'll probably average about $30-40 a pop to replace a $25 disc. Good deal!

Re:Oh is that all

[esocid]

From newegg.com:
HD-DVD drive: US$149.99
Blu-ray DVD burner: US$259.99
Blu-ray DVD: 1xUS$13.99
To a grand total of US$423.97
unless you want to burn more than one DVD. Seems a bit much.

Re:Oh is that all

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a little surprised that the Blu-Ray burners have gone down that much but If you wait and look on eBay you can probably get a HD-DVD drive cheaper as people start unloading them

Re:Oh is that all

[allawalla]

From newegg.com: HD-DVD drive: US$149.99 Blu-ray DVD burner: US$259.99 Blu-ray DVD: 1xUS$13.99 To a grand total of US$423.97 Being glad that you waited until the format war was over: Priceless

Re:Oh is that all

[Dogtanian]

That's what I thought... unless you've shelled out for 100s of movies, wouldn't it be just more sensible (both financially and time-wise) to sell off your HD-DVD discs (and player) and rebuy them in Blu-Ray format? (The cost of the BR player doesn't count, as you'd have to buy one to watch transferred discs anyway).

Or better still, since their value is already gone, sit back and happily watch your worthless HD-DVD discs like you would have done anyway. Replace them in a couple of years time when the current Blu Ray releases have come down in price substantially.

Sounds better than shelling out for expensive blanks (and a burner, if you wouldn't have been buying one otherwise), especially when you're probably going to have to compress the film down to fit on a single-layer Blu Ray.

Re:Oh is that all

[Anonymous Coward]

While I agree that the total cost and the time that needs to be invested is to high for most people you can get a Blu-Ray burner that can read HD-DVD for 230 (20% sales tax included). So the total cost should be about 300$ for someone living in the us.

Re:Oh is that all

[Anonymous Coward]

Who's going to BUY HD-DVDs? They're todays CRT monitors (which are still selling for 1/100th of their RRP on ebay).

Re:Oh is that all

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a consumer whore! Yayyyyyyyy!

Re:Oh is that all

[Anonymous Coward]

Assuming new BD movies are $25, you would need to convert over 37 movies to hit break-even. How many people have 37 HD-DVD movies?

Re:Oh is that all

[SeaFox]

To a grand total of US$423.97
unless you want to burn more than one DVD. Seems a bit much.

For that much you could just go rebuy your movies in BluRay, then sell the HD-DVD versions to the schmuck who is still disillusioned.
Or for less you could go buy this Sharp BluRay player (one of Amazon's best sellers) and keep your HD-DVD player and movies, too.

Re:Oh is that all

[HTH NE1]

HD-DVD drive: US$149.99 XBOX 360 USB HD DVD drive: $119.95

And really, that's all you need: a backup player in case your first one goes kaput, until both the Blu-ray burners and Blu-ray blanks drop in price. Meanwhile, snatch up the dwindling commercial supply of discs as they go on fire sale. (Better than when DiVX went away as HD DVD is already cracked.)

And BTW, it would look quite expensive for copying regular DVDs too if you had to buy separate new readers and burners for every disc you want to copy.

Re:Oh is that all

[Draconix]

Being glad that you waited until the format war was over: Priceless Indeed. That's why I'm sticking with DVD, because in all honesty, I think it's going to win the format war. The players, discs, movies, etc. are cheaper than Blu-Ray, and Blu-Ray adds nothing except more storage space and "better" DRM capabilities.

It's even remotely near the leap from VHS to DVD. DVD to Blu-Ray, you get slightly better picture quality and/or more content per disc. VHS to DVD, you went from costly (production-wise, comparatively) bulky magnetic tapes that were prone to degrading over time, getting messed up by magnets, getting eaten by players, and so on, to optical discs which are smaller, lighter, as portable as CDs, with a longer lifespan, and cheaper production costs, and in time DVD drives allowed you to use DVDs with your computer, too, without having to invest in anything more than a better optical drive. That's a _damn_ huge difference of technology.

Blu-Ray is still and likely always will be a niche product for technophiles who _must_ have the latest and greatest and biggest and best, and poor sods with disposable income who get suckered into buying into it.

Re:Oh is that all

[Sinbios]

and Blu-Ray adds nothing except more storage space and "better" DRM capabilities.

And, uh, HD?

Re:Oh is that all

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm going to eBay then, I've always been fond of my CRT's and its always a pleasure to be able to fit all of my workspace on a single large screen rather than need to have 4, and an extra video card just to match resolutions.

Re:Oh is that all

[zakezuke]

And don't forget that the blank BD media only runs about $15-25 a piece, too. That coupled with the hardware costs for the drives means you'll probably average about $30-40 a pop to replace a $25 disc. Good deal! Well... the price on the media will go down eventually. If you got the movies obviously you got the player, so that's not going to go tits up anytime soon. But assuming it did, we're talking $150 for a reader and about 7.50/30gig, but if it was me, and I "had" to watch "those" movies, a stand alone is what $100 for a Toshiba HD-A30?

Assuming there still is the 5 free movie deal on a $100 player, if you gotta have HD video NOW, I'd consider it, if nothing else but to spite the video industry later with fair use copy.

Re:Oh is that all

[modmans2ndcoming]

wow... a blue-ray burner (RW?) only costs 250? that is a good price.

Re:Oh is that all

[shawb]

My spoon is too big.

My SPOON is TOO BIG!

Re:Oh is that all

[enoz]

Or just wait for someone else to rip and compress them and make available on the intertubes. If you already "own" a copy, is there anything so wrong about watching someone else's version?

Re:Oh is that all

[$pace6host]

From newegg.com:
HD-DVD drive: US$149.99
Blu-ray DVD burner: US$259.99
Blu-ray DVD: 1xUS$13.99
To a grand total of US$423.97
unless you want to burn more than one DVD. Seems a bit much.

I don't think it's quite that much. I already have the HD-DVD drive (XBox sidecar, USB interface, $79.99 at Amazon).
I'll wait on the Blu-ray burner until they come down under $100, and it won't be *JUST* for converting these movies. It's not like I'll throw it away when I'm done! I'm going to use it as a backup device for all my digital photos.
Blank BDs will eventually cheap. They'll be the only "additional" cost.
In the meantime, I'm watching the 6 HD-DVDs that came with my $80 player (making it about $13.50 per movie) I might even pick up a few more at fire-sale prices (B1G1 practically everywhere, who knows, maybe they'll be 66-75% off soon!)
Of course, even just for the cost of blank BDs, I may never even convert them. I might just put the movies on my NAS as storage prices continue to come down. Both formats may lose the war, in the end.
So... I argue with the economics I don't think that's what the cost will be, really. Maybe if I ran out today and got an HD-DVD player, no free movies, and absolutely had to convert them today.

Re:Oh is that all

[bdjacobson]

From newegg.com:

HD-DVD drive: US$149.99

Blu-ray DVD burner: US$259.99

Blu-ray DVD: 1xUS$13.99

To a grand total of US$423.97

unless you want to burn more than one DVD. Seems a bit much. How about:
$25 USB->PATA/LaptopPATA/SATA
$100 500GB HDD or $150 750GB HDD.

I see no reason for either except for making home videos to watch on the bluray player (which I do not have). Just bring the usb converter, the power cable for the hdd that comes with the converter, and the harddrive. Way faster too, and has unlimited writes.

Re:Oh is that all

[rossifer]

My HD-DVD player does an absolutely fantastic job of upscaling regular DVD's to play on my 40" 1080p LCD display. I definitely can tell the difference between HD DVD's and SD DVD's, but it looks so much better than DVD's ever looked from my previous progressive scan component-out DVD player that I'm very happy.

I'm not at all upset that I bought that player. The fact that it happens to play HD DVD's is almost beside the point. I only bought two HD DVD's, and I'll rebuy them on Blu Ray when I eventually go for that format.

Re:Oh is that all

[Anonymous Coward]

20% sales tax? Where the hell do you live?

Re:Oh is that all

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, yes, for all those people who have HD-DVDs to convert yet don't own an HD-DVD player. While you're at it, why not also include the price of the original HD-DVD films?

"Converting Betamax to VHS sure is expensive! First you gotta but Betamax films, then a Betamax player, then a VHS recorder, then blank VHS tapes! Is that a ripoff, or what?"

Captcha: "register". Sorry, won't do. AC 4lyfe!

Re:Oh is that all

[iainl]

If you've got one of the XBox 360 HD-DVD drives, you can use that, which will bring down the price a little bit. Since Gamestop have already announced that they're refusing to take them for trade-in, getting one on ebay should probably be pretty cheap, too. The BluRay burner is actually useful in its own right for backups or writing your own movies, anyway.

So it's all good, until you get to the price of a blank Blu disc. Anything dual-format, you're not saving much from just buying the movie all over again.

Re:Oh is that all

[petermgreen]

IMO if you've got any sense what you do is save this tutorial (since this kind of probablly illegal information may not stay in one place for long) and the required tools to go with it and make sure you have a HD-DVD-ROM drive.

actually buying the burner/media and doing the transfer can wait until the burners and media come down to a more acceptable price.

Re:Oh is that all

[Anonymous Coward]

You forget to mention how great some upscaling is, BD versioning, and the fact that most people still do not have HDTVs.

Blu-Ray is nicely positioned (in most civilized parts of the world - not here) to be quickly leapfrogged by PC downloads.

Re:Oh is that all

[ZOMFF]

Not entirely true, you could get HD video off of a standard DVD if you so wished (albeit about 20 minutes worth). HD Content is not enabled by the media; it's the greater storage capacity of blu-ray allows us to view a full movies worth of High Def(and 3 different languages, extra content, trailers, and commentary to boot)

Re:Oh is that all

[xgr3gx]

Don't forget that your other components should be able to support HD. What's the point in getting a BluRay player if you have a regular old tube or non-hd TV?

Re:Oh is that all

[Anonymous Coward]

But then why get them in HD in the first place?

Re:Oh is that all

[Anonymous Coward]

Blu-Ray adds nothing except more storage space Yeah, cuz no one wants disc size to increase by almost an order of magnitude...

4.7GB is enough for anyone.

Duh.

Re:Oh is that all

[Anonymous Coward]

RTFA. What part of HD-DVD drive did you not understand? These bandwagon-jumping loons bought standalone players, from which you aren't allowed to get the encoded frames due to DRM.

Re:Oh is that all

[alienhazard]

I must disagree. first of all, the difference in video quality between dvd and bluray is very significant. consider: DVD = 640x480 pixels = 307,200 total pixels Bluray = 1920x1080 pixels = 2,073,600 total pixels this means that bluray has roughly 6.5x the resolution of dvd. Whether you _need_ this many pixels is up to you. Also, something that a lot of people don't seem to consider is that this format war was about more than just movies. As you can see with dvd and cd, optical disks are used for more than just movies and the same is true of bluray. once prices go down, bluray burners will become a default part of computers. As far as I know, you can back up data on them. So, aren't you glad that bluray won since its maximum capacity is 50gb vs the 30gb capacity of hd-dvd? i heard that it would be possible to make bluray disks that hold 200gb, which is even better. If they start making 200gb bluray blank media, you might be able to back up your entire pr0n collection to one disk! like my dad used to tell me, "Think before you speak!"

Re:Oh is that all

[Anonymous Coward]

"HD" is little more than a function of increased storage capacity. You can store "HD" on a regular DVD (or even CD), just shorter amounts.

HD-DVD

[Sciros]

Is teh superior technology!!1! Now excuse me while I sit.

Sincerely,
Nutty McCrazy

Steep Price Indeed!

[milsoRgen]

All you need is a Windows machine with a fast processor, an HD-DVD drive, a Blu-Ray burner, 30GB of free disk space, at least, though 40GB or more is recommended and an internet connection to download the software! What about those of us that have HD-DVD drives in our home theater? The cost of a processor that would do this in a timely fashion, is no laughing matter. Plus an HD-DVD drive, plus a Blu-Ray burner? You're kidding right. If you had all that equipment to begin with, I'm pretty sure you already knew what to do in order to convert your discs. Sheesh!

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[rworne]

What about those of us that have HD-DVD drives in our home theater? The cost of a processor that would do this in a timely fashion, is no laughing matter. Plus an HD-DVD drive, plus a Blu-Ray burner? You're kidding right. If you had all that equipment to begin with, I'm pretty sure you already knew what to do in order to convert your discs. Sheesh! You can do it with one unit. There is a combo HD-DVD/BDR drive available for PCs.

LG GGW-H20L

It's only one drive, so you'd have to rip & reburn.

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[TheRaven64]

I didn't RTFA, but how fast a processor do you really need? You shouldn't need to recompress, since BD and HD-DVD both support the same formats, all you need to do is strip the DRM. That shouldn't be more CPU-intensive than playing the DRM'd file, and if you can play a HD-DVD in realtime on a moderately fast CPU, including decoding the VC-1 / H.264 decoding on top of the DRM decoding then you should definitely be able to copy it, removing the DRM, in 2x realtime which is as fast as the cheapest blank BD media I can find support...

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have an HD-DVD drive and HD-DVD movies to play on it... Why would you need to convert them?

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[m50d]

Surely you don't need to do any transcoding, since the codecs for both formats are the same, so processor power isn't an issue.

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[milsoRgen]

That shouldn't be more CPU-intensive than playing the DRM'd file Playback does in fact require rather intensive use of your cpu and/or video card. And it should be noted that most people with stand alone HD drives are home theater enthusiasts, not necessarily very PC literate. They are the ones that would need a conversion most, yet also be the least likely to have the hardware on their home machine. But this is all moot, really just go out and buy new copies.

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[jedimasta]

The cost of a new player and replacing your HD copies by actually purchasing the blu-ray version easily gets dwarfed by the suggested 'conversion' process.

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[KingMotley]

Actually, since HD-DVD and Blu-ray both use the same codecs, there is very little processing that needs to be done.

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[Anonymous Coward]

That is actually a really good price for that drive. I've seen standalone players cost that much.

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[rnelsonee]

...you should just RTFA before posting. Dual-layer HD-DVDs (which is what a lot of the movies are) are 30 GB. Burnable Blu-ray discs are 25GB. If you know how to fit 30GB into 25GB without compression, please share.

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[Magnus Reftel]

You shouldn't need to recompress, since BD and HD-DVD both support the same formats, all you need to do is strip the DRM

The problem is that many of the HD DVD movies use more space than is available on blank Blu-Ray discs, so they need to be compressed a bit further (like is done for some DVDs to fit on DVD5 blanks)

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[complete loony]

What is wrong with that page? I'm using Firefox 3 beta3 on windows, and that LG page stops painting properly when you scroll around.

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[petermgreen]

ususally when copying commercial media you end up reencoding because blanks generally have lower capacities.

this is seen a lot with copying dvds, you can get dual layer blanks but they are pretty pricey so afaict most low end (read: people copying for friends and people selling obvious pirate copies on the street, the counterfieters are a whold different ball game) DVD pirates recompress with tools like DVD shrink. With the HD formats I don't think it's even possible to get burnable media that matches the capacity of the commercial disks.

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[TheRaven64]

The disks are 30GB, but how much of that capacity is actually used? With HD-DVD, the choice is either 15GB or 30GB. If you need more than 15GB, you have to go with the 30GB disk. I wouldn't be surprised if most 30GB disks actually have less than 25GB of data on them, just as many dual layer DVDs have 5-7GB on them.

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[Anonymous Coward]

That drive only writes DVD/CD. Yeah you can rip your HDDVD or Blu-Ray movie with it, but you're not writing back in hi-def.

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[SelrahCharleS]

That is a good point. The one way this could be cost effective is if you bought the necessary equipment and advertised that you did conversions. That way all of the home theater types would come to you, the fancy computer guy, and pay you to convert their HD-DVDs. I think the price of writable Blu Ray disks is still to high though.

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[magister159]

You must be new here... Overburning has been around for years!

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm, no. It is a "Blu-ray disc rewriter", so it will burn BD.

Specs at the bottom of that page clearly state:

Max. 6x BD-R Write Speed
Max. 16x DVD±R Write Speed
6x BD-R/2x BD-RE Read Compatible
3x HD DVD-ROM Read Compatible
Serial ATA Interface
LightScribe
4MB BD & 2MB DVD/CD Buffer Under-run Prevention Function

Next time try reading.

Re:Steep Price Indeed!

[MorpheousMarty]

I can't say what is actually needed, but the rule of thumb is that the source should have as little compression as possible. In which case you could fill a 30gb HDDVD with 1 min of video if you want. However with a transfer rate of 4.36MB/sec for HDDVD@1x, you get about 2 hours of media for 30GB. This would imply that most HDDVDs actually completely fill their disks, since movies in excess of 2 hours are common.

Riiiiiiight

[Serenissima]

Spend hundreds of dollars and hours of processing time and frustration. Or spend 30 bucks and buy the movie again...
Hmmmm.... tough decision.

Re:Riiiiiiight

[Actually, I do RTFA]

Spend hundreds of dollars and hours of processing time and frustration. Or spend 30 bucks and buy the movie again...

Or spend nothing and leave your HD-DVD drive plugged into your home theater, bitching occasionally about the extra remote. Or, have an HD-DVD drive that also is a regular DVD drive (or is plugged into your 360) and don't even have the extra remote. Seriously, why would I someone arbitarily deciding HD-DVD was bad impact me. Now that HD-DVD is "dead", I'm thinking about getting a player and some movies, if they are cheap enough.

Re:Riiiiiiight

[KingSkippus]

Spend hundreds of dollars and hours of processing time and frustration. Or spend 30 bucks and buy the movie again... Hmmmm.... tough decision.

I'd rather spend hundreds of dollars than to give the MPAA 30 bucks by buying the same movie over and over.

Fortunately, it's a moot point. I have partaken of neither the HD-DVD nor the Blu-ray Kool-Aid, and I don't plan to in the foreseeable future.

Money

[fishybell]

Wow, so if don't to spend a few hundred repurchasing your movies, just several hundred (possibly thousand according to TFA) on hardware and software instead.

I'm sorry, but HD-DVD users are just plain outta luck. Next time, join the rest of us and just wait.

Re:Money

[Professor_UNIX]

I'm sorry, but HD-DVD users are just plain outta luck. Next time, join the rest of us and just wait.

That doesn't seem right though. Since you're just purchasing a license to the movie, why can't you mail your HD-DVD discs back to the manufacturer and have them be exchanged for a Blu-Ray copy of the same movie (if available) for a nominal fee (say, $5 plus reasonable shipping and handling)? Perhaps Congress needs to get involved and sort this mess out so HD-DVD users don't get screwed out of their investment... it certainly adversely affects lives more than steroid using baseball players or the war in Iraq. Write your Congressman today and demand an HD-DVD exchange program be setup immediately!!!

Re:Money

[longacre]

I, for one, have met more professional baseball players and Iraq veterans than I have HD DVD owners.

Re:Money

[Trogre]

...adversely affects lives? Are you kidding? These are just movies!

Re:Money

[llZENll]

"Perhaps Congress needs to get involved and sort this mess out so HD-DVD users don't get screwed out of their investment"

Yes, I would much rather have Congress dealing with peoples HD-DVD issues than the economic toilet our country is in, the war, oil, or about a 1000 other more important issues.

HD-DVD users are not screwed in the slightest, they knew what they were getting into, and even so, getting a new disc format isn't going to jack squat for them. They can watch their HD-DVD discs on their HD-DVD player for the rest of thier lives just fine, how is getting a Bluray disc of the same movie going to help them when they don't even have a Bluray player?

Re:Money

[thelexx]

Back in the mid-80's, I did just that with some game software when I went from a C64 to an Atari ST. Can't remember if it was Origin or SSI, think it was one of those though. And IIRC, all I had to send them was the front page of the manual. You would probably get laughed at today.

Re:Money

[brouski]

This is snark, right? Are you under the impression that your HD-DVD discs will self-destruct as a result of this announcement?

Re:Money

[RetardsForRonPaul]

I'd rather have Congress repeal the DMCA so decrypting the HD-DVDs I own isn't a crime.

Re:Money

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Sod off.

I'm about as socialist as anyone can get, but even I know this is child abuse. Seriously, HDDVD buyers knew what they were getting into. it's no secret that there was a format war, and that HDDVD might not be sold anymore. it's not like DiVX where once the servers go offline, the discs are nearly useless.

Re:Money

[Anonymous Coward]

Buying consumer electronics devices is very rarely an investment, so please stop this crap of calling all purchases an "investment". Buying a real estate property can by an investment if you're a good flipper, or in it for the long haul. Crap for the home, no bloody chance!

Bought an HD-DVD player for $400-800? Now worth $50 if you're lucky. That's a hell of a return rate. Even if the blu-ray consortium said "bollox, we can't be bothered anymore", that HD-DVD player would still only have a resale cost of $120, if that. Still not an investment is it?

HD-DVD buyers gambled, they lost. Tough shit, get over it, it's a fscking media player. Any sensible movie buff will probably stock up on the movies that'll soon by $5 each, and enjoy a rather nice library of titles for very little outlay.

Re:Money

[Anonymous Coward]

Off topic clarfication (flame bait):

it certainly adversely affects lives more than .... the war in Iraq.

I think the parent would like to qualify that he/she meant: it certainly affects more middle class american lives than the war in Iraq...

Re:Money

[Anonymous Coward]

Why can't you just send it back? Because HD was owned by Toshiba, and BluRay owned by Sony... Sony doesnt give two chits about whether or not you bought a competators product... Now they sit back and get fat on the money that they would've made if the movie companies would've sided with them in the first place.

Re:Money

[Anonymous Coward]

Couldn't you make the same argument that "it's just baseball"?

Re:Money

[DrgnDancer]

Me too. Of course I spent a year in Iraq meeting thousands of Iraq Veterans.

Re:Money

[Trogre]

Yes, yes you could.

Which, to our culture, are both merely forms of, what?

Entertainment.

Re:Money

[Anonymous Coward]

"Perhaps Congress needs to get involved and sort this mess out so HD-DVD users don't get screwed out of their investment."

Nobody got screwed out of their investment. You buy cutting edge technology you take the inherent risk it's going to fail before it's universally adopted. ESPECIALLY when everyone knew their was an ongoing format standard war going on. And everyone SHOULD already know about the Betamax/VHS battle that was the exact same scenario.

Remember that during the next format war too and you'll be happier for it.

Re:Money

[Charcharodon]

"Investing" in tech that is for entertainment purposes is roughly on par with betting on a horse race.

Your horse lost, now you want your money back? That seems a bit silly.

The only thing Congress should do is laugh at you.

I got caught picking the loosing side too, but all my HD DVD's are safely ripped to my server where they'll live for some time to come.

Re:Money

[perlchild]

I wish I had mod points for you man. Software used to be sold by gentlemen. Now it's sold by lawyers.

Re:Money

[Dan100]

He was being sarcastic, but somehow got modded insightful...

Re:Money

[Trogre]

Oh dear. I think you might be right. I'd best listen out for the whooshing sound next time one like that flies over my head :)

Re:Money

[mattack2]

While not exactly the same, some companies do let you "cross-upgrade" for the upgrade price rather than buying it again.. e.g. moving from Windows to Mac, and a new version comes out.

Re:Money

[Gregb05]

Why were the Iraq Veterans in Iraq? shouldn't they be back in the states? Or are we really sending the soldiers to a big vacation?

Re:Money

[failedlogic]

I think this is quite fair. And if the RIAA and MPAA *really* want consumers to support their members, doing so to upgrade to the "next" medium. I have 300 CD's and I'll guarantee no matter what "enhanced" quality they're going to sell, I'm not buying them all over again for $10 or $15 / pop each. This is where I'm concerned with a collusion of ownership with Sony. They manufacture electronics which play products from their music, game and movie studios. It creates an obvious profit incentive to not serve their customers with cheap next-gen media upgrades.

I'm doubly concerned with all the junk this latest movie format war has produced. Its bad enough we "threw" out a bunch of Beta tapes before recycling plastic caught on. Now that recycling has caught on, and environmentalism is popular, we're just going to throw out brand-new top of the line $1000 home entrainment products and accompanying media because one "format" was somehow deemed better than the other?

As for the other comment on video games, I remember Sierra used to have a really great exchange policy - as did most other software companies - back when floppy disks were used. And if memory strikes me, even cartridge based NES games were easy to exchange. Considering the cartridges were substantially more expensive to make, I was all the more grateful.

Re:Money

[Anonymous Coward]

Origin used to do it, there was an offer in Ultima 6 to swap my 5.25" disks for 3.5" disks for $10 + mail-in of the old disks.

Re:Money

[Loibisch]

> ...adversely affects lives? Are you kidding? These are just movies!
It's still money, too.

Re:Money

[nosfucious]

This is an entirely sensible and well thought out solution.

Sadly, this means it has around zero percent chance of ever being implemented.

I vote with the others. You now have a license for the movie. Download immediately.

Re:Money

[Steve001]

Professor_UNIX wrote and included with a post:

I'm sorry, but HD-DVD users are just plain outta luck. Next time, join the rest of us and just wait.

That doesn't seem right though. Since you're just purchasing a license to the movie, why can't you mail your HD-DVD discs back to the manufacturer and have them be exchanged for a Blu-Ray copy of the same movie (if available) for a nominal fee (say, $5 plus reasonable shipping and handling)? Perhaps Congress needs to get involved and sort this mess out so HD-DVD users don't get screwed out of their investment... it certainly adversely affects lives more than steroid using baseball players or the war in Iraq. Write your Congressman today and demand an HD-DVD exchange program be setup immediately!!!

To me, more government involvement is what is not needed. It has the potential to lead to mandatory upgrading, and making the use of old formats eventually illegal.

It is only a short distance from a voluntary (the government will provide help to make the transition easier) move to a new format, to a government-mandated (you do it when we say or you won't get any reimbursement) move to a new format. This, combined with the ability to create new formats that can be made unusable at a later date, is of great concern.

I think that it is the consumer that has power to end future format wars via their refusal to support any of the involved formats. The consumers have the power to make it clear to the media companies that if you cause a format war, we won't support either format, we will wait until one format dies. Based on some of the posts I've seen in Slashdot, in the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray war it seems like many people did just that (including me).

Re:Money

[connect42]

Congress? Really? Congress? You are ridiculous. Ebay may be needed, Congress is not. To think that the stuff on your entertainment center affects more lives than a WAR tells me right off that you are an idiot. It took me 5 minutes to list all my HD-DVDs on Ebay and nearly 3 hours later they were sold for almost what I paid for them. No problem. Have some initiative and quit looking for a handout.

Re:Money

[hesiod]

> Yes, I would much rather have Congress dealing with peoples HD-DVD issues than the economic toilet our country is in, the war, oil, or about a 1000 other more important issues.

I'm sure congress would prefer that too.

Re:Money

[Progoth]

Perhaps Congress needs to get involved and sort this mess out so HD-DVD users don't get screwed out of their investment...

Missed the part of the Constitution granting Congress the power to do that...

Re:Money

[kimvette]

Defeating DRM for the purpose of interoperability is allowed by the DMCA.

Or

[RetroRichie]

Or you could just keep your HD DVD player.

Re:Or

[nomadic]

Or you could just keep your HD DVD player.

That's so crazy it just might work!

Re:Or

[HTH NE1]

But don't bother with the extended warranty. If you don't think it will last long enough, just buy a spare drive.

Re:Or

[SeaFox]

Or you could just keep your HD DVD player.

Yes, it might be a collector's item someday.

Re:Or

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't be silly, you know the loser of the hi-def war must burn all of their disks and destroy all of their hardware with a sledgehammer.

Re:Or

[Anonymous Coward]

But what if the HD-DVD Player refuses to play your DVD's?

Kind of worthless?

[aikouka]

Even as it states in the originating Wired DIY Wiki page, "Also, consider just buying the movie new: a blank Blu-Ray disc is from $15-$25 for write-once media." (Note that we are also not considering the money for the BR burner).

Now, I'm no studio exec, but the chances that a studio will re-release in Blu-Ray or put out old Blu-Ray versions (movies such as Shooter that were pulled from Blu-Ray once Paramount went HD-DVD exclusive) is fairly decent. This sounds like a huge time and money sink to me and for my HD-DVD movies? I'd rather just wait until they come out on Blu-Ray to buy them again.

Re:Kind of worthless?

[antifoidulus]

Yeah, but part of it is the principal of the thing. The real reason behind DRM isn't an attempt to stop piracy, it's a way to get you to purchase the same content over and over again. I am more than willing to pay a fair price for music/movies, but I am only willing to pay it ONCE. After scratching up a couple of DVDs(and losing a whole season of the Simpsons) I finally decided to rip all my dvds with handbrake and store them on an external drive(backed up and streamed over my airport express). First and foremost its more convenient as I can just pick up my Apple remote and watch any movie/tv show I feel like(of course Apple gimped front row but that is another rant) Secondly unless there is a fire(in which case insurance will cover the cost of the dvds anyway) I won't have to repurchase any dvd because it got scratched or lost when I moved etc.

I abjectly refuse to buy any media more than once, its the game they have played since there was more than 1 media choice out there, and that cash cow has got to stop.

Re:Kind of worthless?

[mr_matticus]

Well, it's principle, and you'd be faced with the same problem irrespective of DRM. I know the moderators are too dumb to stop and think about what's going on here and would rather just groupthink their way into any attack on DRM, regardless of the situation, but one can hope, can't he?

These discs are fundamentally different formats. DRM isn't what makes this not cost effective. DRM isn't the reason why your HD-DVDs don't work in a Blu-ray player.

Every time in the history of recordings that there has been a new format, it has been set up so you'll buy it again. After a few years when it becomes cheap, people can start moving over their collections from the old format. There's nothing special about that. Tape decks captured LP recordings in the 70s; CD recorders moved tapes to discs by the late 90's. DV connections moved VHS to DVD in the early 00s, DVDs can be moved to BD if you are enterprising. This has been par for the course throughout the entire past century. They don't break the old format; there's nothing forcing you to upgrade or to pay again. Consumers pay again because it offers them something they want at a price they're willing to pay. There's nothing nefarious about that--if Bob wants to buy the DVD instead of spending two hours converting his VHS, why shouldn't a retailer make a sale? The fact that vendors know they'll continue making residual sales is one of the major factors that cause prices to drop after release. It's all part of a larger system.

The fact that it's more expensive to do so than just to repurchase isn't something that's new. Even if your HD-DVD collection didn't have DRM at all, it would still be impractical and expensive to convert it to BD.

Re:Kind of worthless?

[pnewhook]

I abjectly refuse to buy any media more than once, its the game they have played since there was more than 1 media choice out there, and that cash cow has got to stop.

You're right. I should try and bring back that book I dropped in the tub. Half the pages are illegible now, so I'm sure the bookstore will just hand over a fresh copy. It's only those evil movie people that are unreasonable and make us buy destroyed copies of their products again.

Re:Kind of worthless?

[Blkdeath]

I abjectly refuse to buy any media more than once, its the game they have played since there was more than 1 media choice out there, and that cash cow has got to stop.

You're right. I should try and bring back that book I dropped in the tub. Half the pages are illegible now, so I'm sure the bookstore will just hand over a fresh copy. It's only those evil movie people that are unreasonable and make us buy destroyed copies of their products again.

You're absolutely right and it's not a sentiment that'll be popular around here. See, bits are easily replicated which led to this myth that purchasing a digital copy of something entitled the consumer to that product for life. Moreover, people talk about the relative cost of the media. Sure, it costs the studios mere pennies a copy to press a DVD, BD, HD-DVD, whatever format, but the content they're pressing cost in some cases hundreds of millions of dollars to produce. Like it or lump it actors cost a lot of money, effects, locations cost a lot of money. And let's not forget that profit is not a dirty word. Much as we all like to go to work and get paid more than a living wage for the work we perform as do movie producers and studio executives like to enjoy the status in life their careers afford them.

But hey, I'm with you, let's all boycott Coles and Chapters and Indigo because they won't freely replace books we've destroyed! I've got a couple of really expensive books that are dog eared all to hell. I demand justice!

Beta -- VHS can haz plx?

[Anonymous Coward]

Joy! Next I'll be able to buy some magic pixie dust that'll let me convert Beta to VHS! Yes!

That sounds Expensive

[imstanny]

Unless you have a vast HD-DVD collection, getting a Blu-Ray burner, blu ray dvd media, as well as the time investing into converting it's likely not worth it. I think it'd be cheaper to setup a stream from your HD capable computer to your TV...

Re:That sounds Expensive

[llZENll]

At $20 per blank bluray disc and a shitload of wasted time, I think you are better off just buying the movie again. I think the OP is a joke.

Re:That sounds Expensive

[Lumpy]

How about the insane idea of not only keeping the HDDVD disc, but the player you bought for them as well! you could go even farther and keep it hooked up!

I know rich video guys that still have their laserdisc player in their home theater setup because they own 100 laserdiscs.

The cheapest and best solution is to ignore silly things said by silly people and keep using what you have already.

Re:That sounds Expensive

[HTH NE1]

Skip the BD-Rs, skip the Blu-ray burner, keep the image in HD DVD format and put it on your media server.

Amazon lists 566 HD DVD titles. Many of them are duplicates of others bundled in box sets, some are hybrids with a reduced capacity, a lot are pre-orders and many are presumed future release not available for pre-order. But let's assume single-disk single-side dual-layer HD DVD content on average and they're all full at 30 GB each, that's 16,980 GB. At current prices of 1 GB for 20 cents (sometimes less), to get drives to hold that library with no redundancy would cost only US$3,396, not counting interfaces, cables, and power necessary to build the 17 TB striped RAID. Some people pay that nearly that much for a whole computer. Might as well throw in another $200 TB for overhead and database with cover images, manual scans, and software.

For the adventurous, format the 17 TB RAID as UDF 2.5 and remaster the whole collection as if it were one huge HD DVD, masquerading as a drive, with just a USB, ATA, or eSATA interface to the outside and plug it into a standalone player's motherboard or into an XBOX 360.

(All capacities assumed to be metric.)

Re:That sounds Expensive

[HTH NE1]

And, assuming those 566 titles could be gotten cheaply enough at an average of $20 each (many many titles are now $15 or less at Amazon), that would be a $11,320 investment protected by only $3,396 worth of hard drives. You won't be able to repurchase on Blu-ray for $6 each (3396/566). It will be a long time before used prices drop that low. It'll be a long time before BD-Rs get that cheap.

Just because you bought Blu-Ray...

[Anonymous Coward]

...Doesn't mean you didn't invest in the wrong technology. Unless you bought a PS3, that is. All other Blu-Ray lite (tm) Profile 1.x devices (which means everything else) are as good as a motherboard with ISA slots. Doesn't matter if that motherboard has a 3 trillion Ghz CPU on it if it only works with last year's (okay, decade's) stuff.

It'll take time, but this is the Achilles heel of Blu-Ray, and will eventually continue the legacy of Sony developed media standards taking off like a lead balloon.

Re:Just because you bought Blu-Ray...

[blugu64]

Could you explain this a bit more?

Re:Just because you bought Blu-Ray...

[Sangui]

There's different Blu Ray profiles. 1.0/1.1 is what was originally released. Profile 2.0 makes some things that were optional in 1.x mandatory. More ram, better processor, etc so the players can accommodate the newer disks that have more features. The older one's don't have the processing power to keep up. The PS3 does, and can be updated with just a firmware update. And to the GP: I present to you the floppy disk, the compact disk, and the fact betamax was still used commercially until recently. Sony wins them just as often as they lose them.

Re:Just because you bought Blu-Ray...

[MBGMorden]

Profile 2 discs will still play on Profile 1 players. They just will lack some newer features (namely, due to the lack of any storage space, you won't be able to save any preferences or such for a movie).

In the basic "play movie on tv" sense though, a Profile 1 player is just fine. Not that I have one - I invested in HD DVD movies (combo Discs before I even got an HD DVD player). I will continue to play those in HD DVD and buy a Blu Ray player when they get cheap enough.

Re:Just because you bought Blu-Ray...

[bloodstains]

No shit. That whole "3.5 inch floppy disk" thing was an embarrassment, wasn't it?

Re:Just because you bought Blu-Ray...

[Anonymous Coward]

*sigh*, you've already been corrected on Betamax vs. Betacam, but still, while it might be good, it's as popular as DAT tape. As in, sure, great if you're running an old TV station, but even in its heyday, not something you could buy at the supermarket, or your average AV store for that matter.

Sony's 3.5 inch disk was nothing more than a somewhat more compact version of a standard that had been refined for years. The only reason it stuck is because of the momentum floppy disks had had for YEARS. The inventor of the floppy disk itself (not just shrinking it) was IBM in conjunction with the man who would create Shugart (now Seagate) Technologies, Alan Shugart. The popular 8" format was shrunk to 5 1/4" later by Alan Shugart's own company. I guess we could never see a smaller size coming. No siree! What I think Sony didn't see is that people wanted more than small, and 280 kB [the release size] wasn't going to compete with the 800 kB of the popular 5 1/4" disks of the time, or the humongous 1.2 MB of the 8" disks.

The Compact Disc was first commercially imagined (although not invented, it took some impetus from Sony to help Philips create a saleable model) by Philips. Again, Sony simply rides the coat-tails of the greats that imagine the work.

In fact, that is the one thing that Sony is good at. Take an existing standard, or idea, and improving it (okay, not always). For example, the Walkman. Sony never invented that, but they did take an existing prototype and make it a commercial success (sounds like Philips CDs and IBM floppies all over again!). Their totally new inventions, though, are almost universally flops in the consumer market.

As far as consumers go, the refinement of the 5 1/4" floppy into the 3 1/2" floppy was a success, I'll give you that (although it was a success that took almost a decade to actually be a raving success, by which time most 3 1/2" drives weren't made by Sony, and neither were the disks), and the CD was a success, although Sony didn't invent the technology alone, or even think of it in the first place. In fact, Sony didn't even make the first Compact Disc.

And, just to really drive the last nail in the floppy invented by Sony coffin, their _larger_ 3.5" technology came, again, almost 10 years after the smaller 3" diskette. Yes, really, Sony didn't go smaller, they went bigger, but smaller in capacity!

But yeah, I guess you have me with Betacam. Shucks. I don't suppose there's any chance of that happening with Blu-Ray, is there? Nope, not even a hope of it.

Re:Just because you bought Blu-Ray...

[niceone]

Mod parent up! I'm glad I found out about this profile stuff before I bought anything. More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Player_profiles .

Re:Just because you bought Blu-Ray...

[GauteL]

"All other Blu-Ray lite (tm) Profile 1.x devices (which means everything else) are as good as a motherboard with ISA slots. Doesn't matter if that motherboard has a 3 trillion Ghz CPU on it if it only works with last year's (okay, decade's) stuff."

That is just bullsh*t. The motherboard with ISA slots is completely useless, the older Blu-Ray players will still play the new Blu-ray discs, they just won't do the extras.

Yes, losing out on the extras is annoying and crap, but playing the f*cking film is the most important thing, and they will still do that.

What's the point?

[Kuukai]

TFA doesn't mention if these will play on a standalone Blu-Ray player or what. It seems pointless unless you really want to throw away your old (new) HD-DVD drive...

Re:What's the point?

[vanyel]

There weren't enough interesting titles released on HD-DVD to make it worth the time, I'll just go buy the 2 discs again when they come out in Blu-Ray.

Re:What's the point?

[tlhIngan]

TFA doesn't mention if these will play on a standalone Blu-Ray player or what. It seems pointless unless you really want to throw away your old (new) HD-DVD drive...

Well, just make sure you use the BDAV profile (the "dumb" collection-of-videos mode).

Only BDMV (mastered movies) discs are an issue in playing back in standalone machines. Since you're not supposed to be mastering these except to test before pressing, you shouldn't have an issue.

Unless your standalone player supports BDMV on writable BDs.

Re:What's the point?

[HTH NE1]

There weren't enough interesting titles released on HD-DVD to make it worth the time Heroes?

Re:What's the point?

[vanyel]

That's one. Serenity makes two. Add in the Bourne movies and make it a few instead of 2. And they'll all be out in Blu-Ray lickety split now.

Or...

[Anonymous User 2000]

Since at least 90% of early HD-DVD adopters probably don't have all the necessary hardware to do this conversion, and the time and money involved, especially considering blu-ray media costs, is at least eqaul to buying the movie, maybe it would make sense to continue to watch your HD-DVD movies on your HD-DVD player or just buy the movie on blu-ray if you like it that much.

Yeah, Yeah, you shouldn't have to buy the same movie twice. That is the cost of being an early adopter.

Re:Or...

[entmike]

Care to provide a link to your 90% statistic?

TOTALLY WORTH IT!

[aliatgb]

With the cost of blank Bluray disks and assuming you have BOTH a HD DVD and Blu ray drive in your computer you might as well just re-buy your movies on bluray when they come out, if not out already.

Too expensive

[statemachine]

Several hundred dollars just to convert. Unless one has 30 or so HD-DVDs, I recommend just buying the Blu-Ray versions and saving money.

Or one could just rip them to a hard drive and store them that way, but even then that costs money for the HD-DVD disk drive and the software (if one purchases it) -- around $200.

And what's your time worth?

Re:Too expensive

[linzeal]

Or just keep the HD-DVD player? Is that an option?

Re:Too expensive

[statemachine]

Or just keep the HD-DVD player? Is that an option?

Well, sure. Do nothing is always an option. But I thought the topic was about converting, and if not Blu-Ray, then to a format that one can deal with later.

Some might want Blu-Ray versions instead for different special features, for the better menuing/title system, or just for the higher maximum bitrates (quality).

I suppose the thread could also be re-done as "How to convert to Blu-Ray if that title is not available in Blu-Ray format" but of all the titles I've seen, I don't think this will be a problem (take that as you wish).

Re:Too expensive

[JSBiff]

If the cost of the blank BR media ever comes down to a reasonable level (2 dollars or less), it *might* make sense to setup a side-business doing this (if it's legal - not sure how copyright might interfere with this idea). That is, as most people are pointing out, it doesn't make sense, economically, for everyone in the world who has HD-DVD's to buy all the gear to do this.

However, if it's legal, it might make sense as the neighborhood geek to offer a service where people drop off their disc and $5 to cover the blank media and to give you a modest profit on the service, and they pick up the original disc and the blu-ray copy the next day. Again, blank media is way too expensive to make this worth while right now. Or places like Walmart, camera shops, etc could offer this as a service (again, going on the economies of scale that it doesn't make sense for individuals to buy all the gear, but walmart could have one automated station in their photo department (similar to those Kodak digital printer stations) that you pop the hd-dvd into and out pops a blu-ray disc 10 or 20 minutes later.

But, I suspect there's not enough people out there who even have HD-DVD discs to make this a worthwhile market for a company as big as Walmart.

Re:Too expensive

[TheRaven64]

Do you not expect BD burners and media to come down in price? They are around where DVDs were in 2000 in terms of price now. In a few years, media will be under $1 and drives will be standard on any computer. If your HD-DVD player doesn't give out before then, it's a good migration path.

Re:Too expensive

[Dachannien]

Or just keep the HD-DVD player? Is that an option? I'm sure there's some sort of DRM in there that will cause it to self-destruct in dramatic fashion upon the MPAA's whim.

"Muahahahaha! Repurchase all your media yet again on Blu-Ray! Muahahaha!" **FOOM**

Re:Too expensive

[statemachine]

Do you not expect BD burners and media to come down in price?

I do. But as you say:

In a few years

I thought we were talking about right now?

The article linked in the submission talked about right now. Otherwise, it's the "do nothing" or "sit and wait" strategy. As I said in another post, maybe the better article would be about re-dubbing titles that won't be available on Blu-Ray (except I don't see that being an issue).

Another person mentioned a service could re-dub for people, but not until the cost of disks went down to $2 or so.

The only good thing about the article is the "coolness" factor of being able to do it. But I'm guessing that once you told your friends how much it cost, your friends might question your sanity.

Re:Too expensive

[JebusIsLord]

I was just thinking... I have a 360 w/ the HD-DVD drive and a few movies... If I just hang onto the movies until blu-ray burners are cheap and everyone wants them anyhow, then i can rip them with the 360's drive (it works on PCs too) and burn them then. Won't cost me more than a few dollars. Just won't be able to watch them (cheaply) for the next year or two.

Or... I could just buy that burner someone above mentioned for ~$250. Again; this is a drive everyone is going to want within 5 years anyhow. My main point of resistance is the current cost of media.

Why Convert?

[_bug_]

If you've got HD DVDs then it seems quite logical you already own the hardware to play HD DVDs. And now that HD DVD is "dead", who will want to buy your used hardware? So if the hardware isn't going away any time soon, and you've got the HD DVDs, why bother with conversion?

Perhaps 20 years from now when that HD DVD player dies you might wish to take these steps to convert your discs to a format that's playable on your Blu-ray drive, but by then we'll probably be on yet another format and the whole process will be pointless.

It'd be nice to see HD DVD producers setup some sort of exchange program where you can turn in your HD DVD disc for a Blu-ray equivalent. Probably won't happen though.

Re:Why Convert?

[antifoidulus]

Actually, now that it is dead its probably the perfect time to pick up some movies if you already have the hardware since there are going to be some serious fire sales....

Re:Why Convert?

[squiggleslash]

Ditto. And another thing: A blank Blu-ray disc costs around the same as a new movie right now.

Oh, and while the formats are comparable, to the point you can probably perform a lossless conversion between the two if you have the right code, the article, in its reliance on off-the-shelf tools, requires that you transcode the video from HD DVD spec AVC/etc to Blu-ray spec. So it's lossy. Probably not very lossy given the same information will be thrown away each time, but lossy nonetheless. Great.

And you'll lose the special features. Did I mention that? Right now, until BD Live comes along, HD DVD is actually superior in terms of what can be done with it. PIP, that kind of thing. So your transcoded blank Blu-ray disc, which may or may not work in your BD player (because many players just don't take recordable media), will definitely, absolutely, not have everything that the HD DVD disc had.

At this point, I'd suggest the people putting together this guide are idiots. If you really, really, cannot for a moment countenance the idea of having a player for an absolute format sitting in plain view in your living room, then there are several alternatives.

The low, low, tech way is to place a sticker over the "HD" part of "HD DVD" on your player, so you don't have to suffer the shame of people coming over and saying "*snort* I saw *snuck-snuck* HD DVD is obsolete, wierdo! *snuck*", they'll just go "*snort* *snuk* That DVD player's huge, when was it made, 2007? *snuk*"

The High, high, tech way is to remove both your Blu-ray and HD DVD player from the living room, rip your movies to a huge hard disk using the tools described in the article, and then use a media PC to actually play them. And if you're the kind of person who'd take that stupid Wired article seriously in the first place, you'll do that. Your media PC will also have a DVR on it, and in the long term you might even find a way of watching streaming movies on the thing.

In other news, Squiggleslash's HD DVD player still works. It still plays all my HD DVD media. The movies still look great. And, boy, am I looking forward to the blow-out sales over the next few months. How much is a Blu-ray player these days? $400? I don't see any great need to blow chunks of cash on being fashionable right now.

Re:Why Convert?

[log0n]

20 years of player life? Most of my (pricey - relatively high end) DVD players only last about 13-15 months before needing replacement due to the player failing completely.

Re:Why Convert?

[illumin8]

In other news, Squiggleslash's HD DVD player still works. It still plays all my HD DVD media. The movies still look great. And, boy, am I looking forward to the blow-out sales over the next few months.

Wow, you must be kinda bitter that you picked the wrong choice in a format war. Seriously, why even consider buying HD-DVD movies, unless they are absolutely free right now? Even if it's only $5, you're still buying an obsolete format that you won't even be able to find a player for in a few years.

Re:Why Convert?

[TheRaven64]

You can still buy Laserdisc players very cheaply on eBay. In a few years, you will probably be able to pick up HD-DVD players and a collection of films very cheaply. If you watch films in a home cinema type setup, and don't care about laptop compatibility, HD-DVD will be a good way of getting a large collection of HD movies in the near future. I'm still tempted to pick up a Laserdisc player and a load of movies on eBay - collections tend to go for under $2 per disc, and there's something fun about those huge optical frisbees.

Re:Why Convert?

[squiggleslash]

Even if it's only $5, you're still buying an obsolete format that you won't even be able to find a player for in a few years.

Dude, I can find CED players if I look hard enough. HD DVD means I get HD now. I couldn't get a Blu-ray player even if I wanted one, my wife would never let me spend $400 on a glorified DVD player.

$5 is a bizarrely low price for you to claim is too high BTW, that's about what AppleTV charges for a rental. The HD DVD is higher quality and will be playable for years.

I don't understand the hate-on people like you have for HD DVD. It was a very good format, it's a shame it's failed as in pretty much every way except player cost it was superior to DVD, something that isn't (presently) true of Blu-ray (Blu-ray has some advantages over DVD, but also some disadvantages.) But as long as you people act like it's malaria, people like me will end up with HD on the cheap.

Re:Why Convert?

[JK_the_Slacker]

You must sell Blu-Ray.

Re:Why Convert?

[paeanblack]

Wow, you must be kinda bitter that you picked the wrong choice in a format war. Seriously, why even consider buying HD-DVD movies, unless they are absolutely free right now? Even if it's only $5, you're still buying an obsolete format that you won't even be able to find a player for in a few years.

This format war won't have a winner. Both sides are betting on the future of the shiny 5" plastic disc. Music CDs have no future in the era of iTunes and ubiquitous iPods. Movie discs will share the same fate a few years later as bandwidth and storage technology fulfill the requirements. Tivo and OnDemand have already gotten people accustomed to recording TV shows and renting movies without a disc.

Obligatory Car Analogy:
      Blu-Ray and HD-DVD were drag racing toward a cliff. HD-DVD flinched. Blu-Ray "won".

Re:Why Convert?

[91degrees]

Yup. HD DVD players are cheap. It's not like spending $1500 (adjusted for inflation) on a Betamax player in 1980. I know a couple of people with working Laserdisc players. They still use them from time to time even though they haven't bought a new disc for years.

Re:Why Convert?

[rkanodia]

Most of my (pricey - relatively high end) DVD players
That's the problem right there. You need to go to Chinatown and buy some brandless (or even better, a SORNY or Magnetbox), cheap-ass DVD player. It won't be region locked, and won't respect a content provider's wishes that you be unable to skip the commercials on their DVD. It will last longer, too.

Re:Why Convert?

[the eric conspiracy]

iTunes and iPods have made a significant impact on how popular music is consumed, but pretty much zero impact on all other genres. Outside pop music, CD sales have been growing over time, and the online sales of these other genres is pretty much dead in the water. CD's are not going away any time soon because albums which have lasting value, are well produced, and mastered do not fit the iPod crowd consumption or listening patterns.

I expect online movie downloads to follow exactly the same pattern. Some forms of video - cheap date movies, stupid comedy (Borat etc) and other sorts of low-end pop-junk like sit-com TV shows will be downloaded. Non-pop culture film (serious movies, foreign film, classics, etc.); i.e. things that have lasting value; that you can watch many times over your lifetime will still be distributed on physical media.

Re:Why Convert?

[HTH NE1]

Actually, now that it is dead its probably the perfect time to pick up some movies if you already have the hardware since there are going to be some serious fire sales.... Way ahead of you my friend.

Also check the used music stores for HD DVDs. Supplies there may be going into dumpsters as I type.

Re:Why Convert?

[Helios1182]

Heck, you could buy the player too since they are selling for way under $100 on ebay now.

Re:Why Convert?

[Gizzmonic]

iTunes and iPods have made a significant impact on how popular music is consumed, but pretty much zero impact on all other genres. Outside pop music, CD sales have been growing over time, and the online sales of these other genres is pretty much dead in the water.

"Outside pop music?" You mean, outside of 90% of music sold? I guess the rich yuppies that love jazz and pay out the nose for hi-fis and horrible DRM'd junk like SACD and DVD Audio can prop up the physical media market a bit longer.

Some forms of video - cheap date movies, stupid comedy (Borat etc) and other sorts of low-end pop-junk like sit-com TV shows will be downloaded. Non-pop culture film (serious movies, foreign film, classics, etc.); i.e. things that have lasting value; that you can watch many times over your lifetime will still be distributed on physical media.


Why? You are romanticizing physical media. There's nothing particularly special about it, other than it's a bit more reliable than a hard drive.

Re:Why Convert?

[illumin8]

You can still buy Laserdisc players very cheaply on eBay. In a few years, you will probably be able to pick up HD-DVD players and a collection of films very cheaply. If you watch films in a home cinema type setup, and don't care about laptop compatibility, HD-DVD will be a good way of getting a large collection of HD movies in the near future. I'm still tempted to pick up a Laserdisc player and a load of movies on eBay - collections tend to go for under $2 per disc, and there's something fun about those huge optical frisbees.

Laserdisc is a bad example to use because it was a superior quality format, compared to both VHS and Betamax of the time. The price was too high for mass adoption, however, so it never really took off, but it was and still probably is used pretty heavily in videophile home theatres and such.

Re:Why Convert?

[illumin8]

This format war won't have a winner. Both sides are betting on the future of the shiny 5" plastic disc. Music CDs have no future in the era of iTunes and ubiquitous iPods. Movie discs will share the same fate a few years later as bandwidth and storage technology fulfill the requirements. Tivo and OnDemand have already gotten people accustomed to recording TV shows and renting movies without a disc.

I totally agree with you there. After having used an AppleTV with the Take 2 software loaded on it for the last couple of weeks, I won't be buying any shiny 5" disk players anytime soon. The future is digital delivery of movies.

Re:Why Convert?

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me get this straight. You're willing to pay $5 for a movie you'll only be able to watch once, but you think it's a waste of money to buy one for that amount that you can play multiple times on a device that might be difficult to replace when it finally stops working.

I fail to understand the logic of that.

Did I miss something?

[koblek]

If said user has all these HD-DVD's they need to convert to Bluray, I would assume that some time in the past they purchased an HD-DVD player to play said HD-DVD's. Why not just go on using the HD-DVD player?

Or...

[Anonymous Coward]

you can just rip/convert them to your HD where they will be in a format that doesn't disappear in a year when they find out no one actually cares about a next-gen DVD format.

Think I'm wrong? The poll says otherwise.

If I have an HD-DVD drive. . .

[JSBiff]

Why the heck would I bother to convert the discs anyway? If I've got the hardware to watch the disc. . . why not just watch it in the native format? I mean, I guess if you have irreplaceable home videos (or you are an independent media producer) which are burned to an HD-DVD disc, and those are the *only* remaining extant copies of the video, you might do something like this.

But for most users, why bother converting? Just keep watching it on your current player.

Re:If I have an HD-DVD drive. . .

[Anonymous Coward]

If blank media weren't as expensive as replacing the titles you bought, it'd be a good idea. Your current player (being one of the first models) is going to crap out before long, and they aren't going to be making replacements for it.

Re:If I have an HD-DVD drive. . .

[Dahamma]

That's what eBay is for! You can still find tons of old but working Laserdisc players for under $100 (often with an entire movie colletion thrown in for free...)

Re:If I have an HD-DVD drive. . .

[alcmaeon]

"Why the heck would I bother to convert the discs anyway? If I've got the hardware to watch the disc. . . why not just watch it in the native format?"

Are you new here?

Re:If I have an HD-DVD drive. . .

[RedWizzard]

But for most users, why bother converting? Just keep watching it on your current player. Some people don't want to have both an HD-DVD and a Blu-ray player in their home theatre systems.

Re:If I have an HD-DVD drive. . .

[glitch23]

But for most users, why bother converting? Just keep watching it on your current player.

Until that current player breaks which may or may not be a while given the current 1 year warranty on a lot of electronics which means they tend to stop working just after that period is over.

Re:If I have an HD-DVD drive. . .

[tempVariable]

Well, why would you buy the drive at all? You use it now to rip your HD-DVDs and then what? You have an HD-DVD drive you will likely not use for HD-DVDs anymore. It seems like a waste of money. On a side note, this is what happens when you buy emerging technology that you don't even know will last... learn a little patience!

Re:If I have an HD-DVD drive. . .

[DrXym]

That depends how much space you have, how many movies you have and how many HDMI ports your TV has. Do you clutter up your TV with an additional device for the sake of a dozen movies for example?

Re:If I have an HD-DVD drive. . .

[Walter Carver]

What happens when your equipment brakes (due to age) and you can't find anything to replace it?

Sony's got you covered!

[Sabz5150]

Convert your HD-DVDs to Blu-Ray for 24.99 each. They'll even throw in a sleek blue case and an insert sheet!

Re:Sony's got you covered!

[Dhampir]

Convert your HD-DVDs to Blu-Ray for 24.99 each. They'll even throw in a sleek blue case and an insert sheet! Then again, not necessarily. Just because Sony is the one tossing out the disc standard, doesn't mean you'll have an insert.

Look at almost any normal DVD nowadays - if it comes with an insert, count yourself lucky. Almost all new movies nowadays don't come with inserts (Disney does, but there aren't many more that do).

But the blue plastic case is almost worth it, I gotta admit.

I don't understand why you would even need to

[elrous0]

Why would you need to do this when you presumably already on a HD-DVD player. It's not like your HD-DVD player is going to just turn into a pumpkin at midnight tonight and stop playing your HD-DVD's. And, even if it did ever break, it would be MUCH cheaper and easier to just buy a used HD-DVD player (you can get the Xbox 360 add-on for $130 new) than to go to the huge hassle and expense of converting them to blu-ray.

Who exactly is this article meant for? Some fictional person with a buttload of HD-DVD's but no HD-DVD player or goddamn sense?!?

Re:I don't understand why you would even need to

[Dogtanian]

It's not like your HD-DVD player is going to just turn into a pumpkin at midnight tonight and stop playing your HD-DVD's. I think that's because the HD-DVD players lack network connections.

I have it on good authority that Sony are going to send the "convert to pumpkin" firmware upgrade to all networked PS3s this coming Monday.

Re:I don't understand why you would even need to

[Anonymous Coward]

actually no, every HD-DVD player (except the Xbox 360 one) has a ethernet jack on the back. It's part of the standard. Blu-Ray on the other hand, the PS3 is the only one upgradable at the moment, so any non-PS3 blu-ray player out there can't support all the extra features of profile 1.1 (aka, copying the internet features of HD-DVD players)

Re:I don't understand why you would even need to

[Anonymous Coward]

On many TV sets, HDMI ports are still at a premium. Would you rather swap the connections at the back of your set or buy an HDMI switch (not cheap) when you want to use your HD-DVD player?

Re:I don't understand why you would even need to

[Anonymous Coward]

+5 Funny aside, you never know about people.

I was in elementary school when Nintendo came out. Kids being kids, anyone who had Nintendo was automatically "cool" and the rest of us were in awe. This one kid in our class got it early and brought his copy of Zelda into class to show us. Instant ticket to popularity, right? Sure...until he confessed to somebody that he didn't actually have Nintendo, he just bought the game so we'd think he did. By lunch, his secret was out -- and by recess, his popularity had transformed to mockery and a shame that lasted for...well heck, we all still remember that story.

Re:I don't understand why you would even need to

[elrous0]

I think I would just opt for an $80 HDMI switch instead of the $2000-$3000 for a system capable of doing the conversions, the hours and hours of time it would take, and the loss of quality that you would get from re-encoding.

Re:I don't understand why you would even need to

[petermgreen]

but still a hell of a lot cheaper than the kit needed to do this conversion.

isn't there at least one hybrid player on the market too?

On the ones without Macrovision DRM

[Anonymous Coward]

Ofcourse you could only do that because Macrovision DRM wasn't on Betamax tapes... I seem to remember something about HD-DVD being encrypted with DRM.... Of course anyone who reads slashdot knows that HD-DVD has already been cracked....

Which model?

[KingSkippus]

From newegg.com:
Blu-ray DVD burner: US$259.99

Which model is that? The cheapest model I see is $355.

Re:Which model?

[JK_the_Slacker]

Dude, he's being sarcastic. You should totally not go through with this.

BTW, welcome to Slashdot.

Re:Which model?

[esocid]

You're right. I was looking at the Pioneer Blu-ray reader/DVD-r combo, like the reply below you noted.

Re:Which model?

[KingSkippus]

I don't own the first HD-DVD movie, I'll probably never own a Blu-ray movie, but I've been thinking of picking up a drive for the data storage. That price seemed pretty good compared to others I've seen, which is why I asked about it.

Feasibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe in a few years this will be worth doing. When the prices of all of these components, except for perhaps the HD-DVD drive for your computer, will be much lower.

It's not about what's right, it's about $$$

[JonTurner]

>That doesn't seem right though.

We're talking about the MAFIAA and you expect what's right? (I'm chuckling even while I write this.) I hate to be the one to break the bad news to you, Grasshopper, but you have discovered the ugly core of the media industry. It has nothing to do with what is right. It's not about Art. It is all about squeezing as much money as possible out you as possible. And if you think your congresscritter is going to do otherwise, then I applaud your pure heart, but feel compelled to tell you that unless you have more money than Hollywood with which to bribe^h^h^h^h^hlobby, you (we?) don't have a chance.

Betamax != Betacam

[Pope]

For fuck's sake, get it right! They're two completely different things.

Its probably

[ArchieBunker]

Its probably a combo drive like the dvd-cdr/w drives that could burn cds and only read dvds.

Am I the only one...

[Anonymous Coward]

who is thinking of buying everyone else's cheap HD-DVDs?
I'll just keep my player, and get a PS3 or HD-DVD Compatible Blu-Ray player when the time comes.

Heck, maybe I'll just have 2 Xbox 360 add-on drives, once they come out with the Blu-Ray one.

So I can convert to HD-VMD too?

[punterjoe]

Let's not forget the little format that could...
This could be a handy way to convert HD & BR to the REAL future of HiDef. ;)

Burning to Blu doesn't make sense ....

[steppin_razor_LA]

Given the cost of blank media (not to mention the burners), it doesn't make sense to convert your HDDVDs to BluRay. Assuming you have a computer connected to your TV, I'd propose instead ripping the DVDs to a HD (or storage array). You can connect a 360 HDDVD drive to a computer and do this.

You can get a 500GB disk for ~$100. This will hold ~25 movies and will probably provide a superior playback experience (i.e. no need to swap out disks).

Eventually HD prices as well as BluRay optical media prices will drop ...

Why bother?

[el_chupanegre]

Wait, if you need both a HD-DVD and BluRay drive to do this, why exactly do you need to bother? It isn't like your HD-DVD drive is going to stop working or anything. When you want to watch a HD-DVD, use your HD-DVD drive!

HD-DVD the superior technology?

[Asterra]

I doubt one would really try to argue that. I can't say I saw anyone trying, at least. Superior technology? No. Superior movies? Yep. Not Blu-ray's fault. Sony's. For being cheap and assuming their platform would win without the need to maximize quality (by skipping MPEG2). Glad they had competition around to force the issue.

Re:HD-DVD the superior technology?

[91degrees]

Both formats have their benefits. HD DVD has more technical features (Although PiP seems to be the main one). Bluray has higher capacity per layer and higher bitrate.

Blu-ray Disc uses region coding

[tepples]

At $20 per blank bluray disc and a shitload of wasted time, I think you are better off just buying the movie again. I think the OP is a joke. That is, if the movie is available on Blu-ray Disc in your region. And unlike HD DVD, BD doesn't offer the option of not using AACS copy prevention, and I've read that a lot of especially smaller studios can't get AACS licenses.

Re:Blu-ray Disc uses region coding

[Blkdeath]

That is, if the movie is available on Blu-ray Disc in your region. And unlike HD DVD, BD doesn't offer the option of not using AACS copy prevention, and I've read that a lot of especially smaller studios can't get AACS licenses.

Gosh, you're right; I want to revert to those region free DVDs!

compusa

[yodleboy]

some of the compUSA joints closing up have been unloading BR blanks for as low as $2/each... I just got a ps3 this weekend, finally figured it was safe to pick a format. About damn time.

Not for all titles

[tepples]

Convert your HD-DVDs to Blu-Ray for 24.99 each. They'll even throw in a sleek blue case and an insert sheet! Does it work with Paramount or Universal titles? Or is that covered under some deal between Sony, which owns Columbia Pictures, and BMG, which owns Columbia House?

Re:Not for all titles

[AxemRed]

I imagine that all HD-DVD exclusive titles will be released on BluRay eventually.

Cheaper

[Nom du Keyboard]

All you need is a Windows machine with a fast processor, an HD-DVD drive, a Blu-Ray burner, 30GB of free disk space, at least, though 40GB or more is recommended and an internet connection to download the software!

I think it would be cheaper to just re-buy all your discs in BluRay, especially considering the cost of BR recordable discs.

Or if there is no BR equivalent, get a fire-sale HD-DVD player just for those obsolete discs.

Re:Cheaper

[Kashgarinn]

Of course, if you invest into this backup feature, not only can you backup your HD-DVDs to harddrive or to burn on BR discs, you can backup your Bluray discs.

I'd say for future savings that this would be a good option for those who don't want to repurchase their crap again and again because of scratched discs or other mishaps.

K.

One poorly phrased comment...

[argent]

The last line of this article ends "whether it is true or not". It should read "whether it is relevant or not". The failure of HD-DVD has nothing to do with whether it is superior or inferior, but to market forces. There have been any number of situations over the years, centuries, and millennia, where technically superior products and technologies have failed (whether to be reborn later, in some form, or not) in the face of chance vagaries of the market.

Note that I am not arguing that it is superior, I neither know nor care since I have no interest in the technology itself and no media in either format, simply suggesting a significant improvement to the way the comment is phrased.

Re:One poorly phrased comment...

[sweepkick]

I think you meant to say that "The failure of HD-DVD has nothing to do with whether it is superior or inferior, but to manufactured and manipulated market forces".

The Blu-Ray Disc Authority (BDA) would have you believe that it was due to "consumer choice", which is dubious at best. Had all studios been format neutral from the get-go, and *all* studios released on both formats from the beginning, the outcome may very well have been different. However, the BDA were able to secure Fox, Disney, and (surprise surprise) Sony's studios from the get-go. Three *very* large studios with an impressive catalog.

It's likely that Fox and Disney received "incentives" either in the form of cash payoffs or other "financial or promotional considerations" for Blu-Ray exclusivity. In fact, at the BDA press conference at the IFA in Berlin in August of last year, when asked point-blank whether they had received financial incentives for their exclusive support of Blu-Ray, Disney's VP of European Marketing responded with "no comment".

There's still a lot of speculation as to why Warner had chosen to go Blu-Ray exclusive. Perhaps out of the goodness of their hearts they knew that they held the winning hand in deciding the outcome of the war, and decided to just go with Blu-Ray and put an end to the "war" for the consumer's sake. However, this is big business, and if Paramount and Disney were receiving payouts for their support of their exclusivity, why wouldn't they try to secure a nice incentive package? I say the jury's still out on this one, and it may be some time before we know what actually went down in Warner's meetings with the BDA/Sony two weeks prior to CES 2008... if ever.

But don't kid yourselves, the war was not decided on market forces brought on by consumer demand.

Re:One poorly phrased comment...

[argent]

Manufactured and manipulated demand has always been a part of market forces. At times it's included armed forces as well (consider the history of the British East India Company). The "manufactured and manipulated" part of the story can always be taken as a given.

Dumbest. Article. Ever.

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously... what passes for news on /. these days is mind-boggling. Wanna tell me how to convert my cassette tapes to CDs next? I've been wondering...

Jeez...

BD9

[DrXym]

Blu Ray supports 9 & 4.7 Gb DVDs with the proper disc structure. So in theory you could transcode an HD DVD to a DVD. Quality wouldn't be as good as the original but its probably watchable. Alternative just store the movie data on a removable USB drive and watch it on a PS3.

Re:BD9

[MikeBabcock]

More interestingly, will a BD player play DVD media with HD-DVD content (assuming you re-compressed it to fit).

Re:BD9

[Per Wigren]

If you don't care about HD, why buy the HD-DVD version instead of the cheaper DVD version to begin with? My guess is that people buying HD movies actually care about picture quality so downgrading to "watchable" DVD quality is not an option.

Re:BD9

[DrXym]

I suppose in theory it could watch the content though I doubt it would go anywhere near the HDi. I doubt any player would though except the hybrids.

In theory any computer equipped with a DVD player could too. Think of Videolan or similar. I don't know if it plays .evo files (the HD DVD file format) but I don't see why it couldn't.

In practice I only know of one reason for using BD9 on a disk - apparantly BD9 supports 7.1 surround whereas a raw H264 container file doesn't. Otherwise I think I'd be happier to just rip to H264 and open it like a file.

Re:BD9

[DrXym]

I didn't say DVD quality. You can transcode a 25Gb HD movie into a 4 or 8Gb HD movie (depending on single / double layer DVD) and it would still be watchable quality. Indeed, Apple is talking of 4Gb downloads for its HD movies.

Would it look as good as a 25Gb file? Of course not but it would be quite acceptable and preferable to digging out the HD DVD from the garage just to play the one movie you want to watch.

Another alternative to burning discs is buy a large HDD and backup the entire movie to that. Then you can either stream the movie from a PC or transfer it the PS3 to play the content.

Investing in wrong technology

[Riquez]

All you need is a Windows machine with a fast processor, an HD-DVD drive, a Blu-Ray burner, 30GB of free disk space

hmm, you invested in HD-DVD and Windows?

Something Irreplaceable

[Sponge Bath]

I have an HD-DVD player ($200), and have purchased a few discs (about $100). I made the purchases knowing it could be the losing format, but was willing to try it out for the cost. I agree, without complaint, that the thing to do is buy Blu-ray replacements for the few titles I have. It is the easiest and most economical thing to do.

Here is the kicker: One of the titles was Led Zeppelin's 'The Song Remains the Same'
This title was supposed to be released in December on both formats. Come the release date, suddenly most of the retailers that were accepting preorders announced that the release was pushed back indefinitely.

It turns out a limited amount actually made it to some retailers and I was able to pick up an HD-DVD version from DVD Pacific (the only place that seemed to have any).

Now even DVD Pacific has none (of either format).

I now have a great show (video is spectacular, audio is perfect) on a dead format, but the title is no longer available on any HD format. There is no indication when it will be officially (re)released, if at all.

I guess if I was desperate enough I might try something like the article describes. The industry has left no other choice.

why HD at all?

[Anonymous Coward]

Blu-Ray drive: $500
PC upgrades to make it work: $750
Blank media: $10-$25 a pop, depends where you shop

The MPAA Sturmwaffen kicking in your door over DCMA "issues" at 3am - PRICELESS

My pioneer LASER disc player still works.

[Babu 'God' Hoover]

My brother in laws Betamax player still works.

Are we to understand that the HD DVD player is in danger of crapping out if we don't hurry up and convert?

Wouldn't it make more sense to buy all the movies you like that are available in the obsoleted format along with a player because now you can get them cheap?

Well, by the time your HD-DVD player dies ....

[wsanders]

... Blu-Ray burners will cost $50. Right now blank DVDs cost less than blank CD-R's at ly local Fry's. Go figure.

However, as I understand it, Blu-Ray includes an extortionate per-blank disk licensing fee that artifically inflates the cost. That's way HD-DVD was cheaper and had more fans among low-volume disc producers.

Yeah, I thought about it...

[Anonymous Freak]

But it's only cheaper if you already own the HD DVD ROM drive and the Blu-ray burner; and you wait for the price of blank Blu-ray discs to come down. Unless you own every single HD DVD movie that was made, it's probably going to be cheaper to just re-buy the movies on Blu-ray.

The only thing I will miss are the combo DVD/HD DVD discs. I liked the idea of being able to play the same disc on my older 'kids' TV and my notebook computer, as well as on the HD DVD Player in full quality. (Of course, I have only even thought of paying money for one HD DVD movie, and it was the Combo version of Superman Returns. Partially for the sole reason of 'hedging my bets' in case HD DVD lost. Good thing I waited.)

Congress? Please.

[Petersko]

"Perhaps Congress needs to get involved and sort this mess out so HD-DVD users don't get screwed out of their investment..."

Sure. And while we're at it, we'll get Congress to get involved every single time a technology fails to gain ground. We'll go after companies that stopped supporting Laserdisc, 8-Track, Betamax, and all of the gas stations that stopped providing leaded gasoline for my '72 Dodge Dart.

People bought HD-DVD during a format war. Why in heaven's name should they be protected from the outcome of it? If the studios are willing to step up and offer compensation to people who bought the failed format, well, that would be very nice of them. But law has no business in this business.

Alternatively

[theeddie55]

buy the hd-dvd drive and stick it in a cupboard, should your hd-dvd player die, then it's time to buy the rest, hopefully for a lot cheaper than it is now and follow this guide, there should be more software around for the purpose by then.

how crazy

[peas_n_carrots]

"crazy guy who continues to argue that HD-DVD is the superior technology whether it's true or not."

If it's true, would the guy still be considered crazy?

Re:how crazy

[Anonymous Coward]

Token ring?

Still don't care about HD

[bigtangringo]

Chalk me up as one of those people who still doesn't care about HD. I 'back up' my DVDs to my HTPC at 1300kbps vbr anyway.

"All you need is a Windows machine"...

[gone_bush]

which leaves out 99.999% of /.'ers

Re:"All you need is a Windows machine"...

[mlk]

Not really. My guess would be 80% use Windows at home full time, 10% Mac, 5% have windows "but only use it when they have to" (read all the time), 4% as before, but actually do use Linux as the primary system and 1% (if that) are 100% pure Linux users.

bluray

[Anonymous Coward]

who cares anyway? bluray will be dead in 2 years. you'll see.

An elegant solution

[Burning1]

Someone pointed out a rather elegant solution...

Wait until the firesale of HD-DVD movies. Buy as many as you possibly can.

So long as you have movies to watch, your HD-DVD player will remain relevant. Since you can get them so cheaply, it makes sense to buy a whole bunch... By the time you're bored, the price of Blueray will be way down making the transition easier.

Most Blu-Ray players don't play BD-R/BD-RE

[wired_parrot]

Most Blu-Ray players for sale don't play recordable Blu-Ray discs. Of course, you could still play those discs in your computer, but I suppose that wasn't really the point. You're better off buying new discs.

"headed to the bottom of ocean to join BetaMax?"

[Melbourne Pete]

Betamax is dead? Cool. Looks like I won't have to return those tapes after all

where have I seen that sig before ???

[up2ng]

looks really familiar
|
|
V

I have two word for you...

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

Tech bling!

The Resale Value

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

You need to convert them for the resale value. It's going to be hard to sell your HD-DVD movies at a decent price, so you should go through the steps in TFA and convert them to BluRay discs and sell them. They'd even go for a high price, if they didn't have a BluRay release to begin with.

And then you could do it all again. And again. And again...

Re:The Resale Value

[MojoStan]

You need to convert them for the resale value. It's going to be hard to sell your HD-DVD movies at a decent price, so you should go through the steps in TFA and convert them to BluRay discs and sell them. They'd even go for a high price, if they didn't have a BluRay release to begin with. Am I reading your comment correctly? Are you saying sell the Blu-ray copies of the HD DVD movies? Since the RIAA proved they can successfully sue a P2P "sharer" for hundreds of thousands of dollars, I think the MPAA will sue a Blu-ray copier/seller for... ONE BIIILLLLLION DOLLARS!

Heck, I have no respect for the MPAA and I think it's a travesty the way they've screwed over HD DVD early adopters. However, I think the worst I'd do is "share" Blu-ray copies with friends or, at worst, get paid back for the cost of the Blu-ray media (a bottle of wine would do).

Re:The Resale Value

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

Am I reading your comment correctly? Are you saying sell the Blu-ray copies of the HD DVD movies?

Yes.

Am I reading your comment correctly? Are you seriously saying sell the Blu-ray copies of the HD DVD movies?

No.

WON'T EVEN WORK: Profile 1.1

[Anonymous Coward]

That's still retarded (and won't work):

-400$ dual format writer to burn the new discs
-like 15$ a pop for Blu-Ray blianks
-$$$$$ for a PC upgrade to reencode it to the smaller 25GB Blu-Ray media

All that, to have discs that won't even play! Them copies will NOT play in most Blu-Ray players. As of Profile 1.1, Blu-Ray players (ps3, new version of powerdvd, etc) will no longer play AACS-less titles (as in, encryption is MANDATORY!).

Shelling out 1000$ or so and countless hours of fucking around, to have discs that wont play, then you already have a player for the discs, or that you can re-buy them for cheaper (not lower quality reencodes on writable media either, full 50GB version with insert, logos and everything else)

I'm still blown away...

[Myrkridian42]

That Sony finally actually won a platform war. After BetaMax, Mini-Discs, Memory Sticks, Digital8...

How about having both formats?

[Anonymous Coward]

I had bought a PS3 just when it was released in Australia (23/3/07), and obviously I watched my Blu-Ray movies on it. To me my PS3 was my desktop I had been running linux on it. But I needed something to carry around with me and use as a computer in other words a laptop which could be classified as a desktop replacement, that is were the Toshiba P200 804 comes in. This laptop has a built in HD DVD drive which was also a great time to make sure I was not stuck with the losing format. Anyway the point is buying products that have built in "accessories" is usaully a more hassle free and cheap alternative then buying every thing seperate (NOT INCLUDING BUILDING A COMPUTER) And here are some specifications for anyone who is interested in the Toshiba P200 804.

Intel Core 2 Duo 2.60GHz T7800
ATI Mobility HD Radeon 2600 512MB didecated graphics memory and 1279MB graphics memory in total (shared video + didecated video)
2.00GB RAM DDR2 667MHz
HD DVD drive DVD/CD/ burn and reads
17" 1440 x 900 native resoultion
2x 200GB HDD 5400RPM

This are not the offical specifcations but a more friendly version, I hope ;)

Don't accept their premise

[Anonymous Coward]

Since you're just purchasing a license to the movie, why can't you mail your HD-DVD discs back to the manufacturer and have them be exchanged for a Blu-Ray copy of the same movie

Because you're not! Seriously, just because some people in the industry push that view doesn't mean it's true. Don't be a sheeple. You got a disc, that's all. Copyright law prevents you from making copies, except under Fair Use. The DMCA prevents you from cracking the encryption. That's all. You don't own some vague concept of "the movie". You own a disc, along with rights and limitations to rights established by law.

Worth it for *some* people

[Random BedHead Ed]

I've seen a lot of "It's not worth the price" comments about this strategy. Actually, this could be worthwhile under the following circumstances:

• You have quite a few HD-DVD discs to copy, like a whole high-def collection. (Warning: this means you are a risk-taking, bandwagon-jumping idiot.)
• You already have an HD-DVD drive, so you don't need to buy that particular piece of hardware.
• You wait a few months for the price of blank BD-ROMs to come down round the $10 mark or lower (bonus points if you wait for the $15 spool of 100 discs).

But yes, if you were smart enough to wait it out, it's not worth it. Then again, this post is pointless because people who were that smart have avoided this problem.

Would Someone Please..

[His Shadow]

Tell these fucking idiots that Betamax was THE choice for professional video well into 2002? That it was supplanted by digital media this Millennium? HDDVD will not survive in any form, and certainly wasn't/isn't superior to BluRay the way Beta was superior to VHS. So it's fine for comparisons with respect to conquering the consumer space, but Beta did not disappear forever because the cheap ass VHS VCR was on top of everyones TV.

My Personal Beef against the MPAA/RIAA

[demiurgency]

This whole issue brings up exactly what I feel is is wrong with the licensing model of the MPAA/RIAA. The **AA wants to make the case that when you buy a DVD, you don't buy the movie, or the medium that the movie is stored on, so much as you pay a license to privately watch that movie at home, with your family. It's why copying the DVD and giving that copy to a friend (or a thousand, on the internet) breaches copyright and violates that agreement. Ok, I can buy that. I think that's fair. However, if I've payed out $29.95 for the right to watch Spiderman 3, in High Def, on my home player, but I happen to be a victim of the format wars and bought into HD-DVD instead of BlueRay, in my mind I should be able to return my HD-DVD version for a BlueRay version, and only pay the materials/processing cost. The **AA instead expects us to pay the $29.95 all over again. One can apply the same logic to upgrading a DVD collection to BlueRay, or even a VHS collection to BlueRay. In fact, whenever a new format emerges, the **AA expect to be able to double their profits on old content. This forms a large chunk of their bogus projected calculation 'We lost X million dollars to piracy this year in lost sales', a number which is completely artificial but which they use to apply lobbying power on government. Until the **AA decides to change their 'have their cake and eat it too' idea of 'fair use' policy, I will continue to download torrents with no moral qualm whatsoever.

Still very costly

[NakNomik]

Fixed cost: $150 + $260 = $410
I'm assuming here that I'll be using all the free software.
Variable cost (not considering the countless hours of joy you'll have converting) = $14/movie
On average a new Blu-ray DVD movie is available for ~ $27. So to break even you'll need convert ~32 HD DVD movies to Blu-ray.

This calculation is completely ignoring the cost of the HD DVD movies, which any way worthless now.

Arguably you'll still have some use for the Blu-ray drive in future, but your "investment" in HD DVD drive will have diminishing returns after the conversion project is over.

I have about 20 HD DVD movies, so I'm going to just wait till Blu-ray player and disc prices come down, and then think of building my movie collection again.

Sigh...

Or you can sit and be the crazy guy who...

[Dretep]

continues to argue that Blu-Ray is the superior technology whether it's true or not. Then decide to hold off until the next new popular video medium arrives.

That's Macrovision *ARM*...

[Tsar]

... Analog Rights Management.

Do you think totalitarian regimes would do better if they packaged their policies as Personal Rights Management, and sold them as a service? I think that's as close as I'll come to breaking Godwin's law today.