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A Copyright Cop In Every Zune
Mike writes "As if the Zune wasn't already crippled and unpopular enough, now comes a story indicating that Microsoft may build a 'Copyright Cop' into every Zune. A future update of the software for Microsoft's portable media player will likely include a 'feature' that will block unauthorized copies of copyrighted videos from being played on it. The president of digital distribution for NBC, J. B. Perrette, said the plan is to create 'filtering technology that allows for playback of legitimately purchased content versus non-legitimately purchased content.' Of course there's no way to tell legitimate content that you create from 'non-legitimate' content, so this looks like just another nail in the coffin of the Zune." Update: 05/08 20:50 GMT by T : From Microsoft employee Cesar Menendez comes this categorical denial of any such filtering mechanism.
Its just 'trusted computing' rearing its ugly head.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I've been doing that for years on my SanDisk MP3 player: downloading the .FLV videos from YouTube and converting them to SanDisk compatible videos. So now you can't do that on the Zune? Wow...
First Post w0000t :)
Sounds like an AntiTrust lawsuit waiting to happen.
-- (this is a sig) My Computer Programming Forumhttp://www.programers.co.nr/
I've heard of this Zune, but never actually seen one out in the wild. Do they actually exist? In other words, the Zune can have as much DRM as it likes. No one who cares about that sort of thing will buy one anyway. In fact who does buy them?
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
This is a demonstration of Microsoft's new media-compatibility standard. They're calling it "Plays? Yeah sure!"
"They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
Well of course there are ways to tell legitimate content from non-legitimate content. They're the same ways that are already being used in the HD-DVD and BluRay specs: the content producers put some kind of watermark into the stuff they sell, and if the player detects that watermark in some piece of non-DRMed content it'll shut down and refuse to play that file.
Of course there's a chance of false positives with this sort of thing. Since the watermarks are usually audio-based, that means there's a potential that the system will be triggered by, say, a home movie where the TV is on in the background. And if it's too sensitive then it might go off whenever it sees random noise.
In any case, I doubt this is going to do too much for the Zune's sales, so one hopes that MS is getting something really swank for doing the deal.
I hear that if you're wiling to pay a premium, they'll arrange for Steve Ballmer to come over and kick you in the nuts, personally.
Although, I expect that's only for corporate customers, OEMs, since Steve's time is valuable.
Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
I've got bad news for both NBC and their friends at M$ - you have to have an audience that's actually captive before you try to screw them like this. In the mean time, Apple needs to slap them both with an anti-trust lawsuit for the attempted collusion. Both of those greedy pigs are crying about "suffering" "piracy" but most companies would be happy to suffer with their market share. Most companies would also be bright enought to milk it by delivering product that does not suck life.
Zune was never good but this will surely make it complete shit. A network that "squirts" vanishing media and advertisments. A clunky form factor that's trying hard to match competiton from three years ago. About the only thing they could do worse is make it less reliable than it already is. Bingo. They can't make Vista DRM work with quad processors and always on networking, do they really think an embedded device has a snowballs chance in hell? If you bought an old one of these on firesale, learn how to load it with free software because an auto "update" might cripple it.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=216934&cid=17629948
Will these people never learn. We learnt only a few weeks ago that MS is turning off their music store activation rubbish. How long will this incarnation live on. Ie who keeps the database up to date in 10 years time.
Just to add to that, rather than failsafe, ie if unsure, then let it play, it will not failsafe, so someone is going to loose access to content somewhere along the line.
http://www.writeitfor.us - Writing IT for the IT generation.
Imagine the uproar if they added a copyright filter that prevented people from playing back music that they ripped from a CD (an "unauthorized" copy, in RIAA parlance).
Oh wait, maybe I shouldn't give them any ideas.
"...will work with [NBC] to try to develop..." is classic software marketing BS - three weasel verbs in succession, a minor masterpiece. Translation: "This feature? Oh, sure, we have it. I mean, we'll have it in the next release. I mean, the crack team of our coding monkeys is going to make it their priority. Now just sign here, initial here and here."
I can assure you, the best way to get rid of dragons is to have one of your own.
According to TFA, Google and other companies are exploring having filtering technology similar to this to eliminate copyrighted content from their shared video sites. Unless/until that happens, I can't really see even Microsoft making this move.
As TFA points out, MS is way at the back of the portable mp3/video/etc. pack and it knows it can't afford to stick more "features" in that will drive users away. Now, the NBC dude quoted in the article brings up the idea that through whatever the Zune store is called they'd have options to offer whole seasons of a show at a discount instead of being forced to the $2/episode no matter what pricing standard of iTunes, and I could see that drawing people to buy the episodes from Microsoft -- but not so long as the alternative is to get them free for the iPod from YouTube. A generation raised with free TV and VCRs hesitates even less about 'stealing' TV episodes than it does about songs.
So unless YouTube etc. put a filter in place that successfully blocks this same content I can't see it going anywhere on portable players so long as Apple refuses to do it to the market-dominant iPod.
Microsoft will come around, they just don't "get it" yet.
Letting users do what they want is what all the cool kids are doing now.
Microsoft is always slugging behind the current trends, and this is another one. Eventually the competition will crush them, and they'll be forced to get with the flow.
I predict that within 5 years they'll be pro open standards and talking trash about companies who are still controlling their users, trying to show the world how "open" they are now.
I've seen one and only one in the wild. It was bought by someone on some kind of internet firesale site. The owner was pleased but it was clunky and he'd have been better off with a much smaller and better built iPod for what he spent. He made it sound tempting to the ignorant and I half wondered if he was not tied into M$'s sleazy marketing program.
If this is made retroactive to all existing Zunes, or put in new ones without clear notice of this limitation, I hope Microsoft will be sued out of all the money they didn't spend trying to acquire Yahoo!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Sure Microsoft makes plenty of bad decisions, but there's no way they're dumb enough to think that zunes aren't selling because customers want more content restrictions.
On the other hand, I suppose they are dumb enough and arrogant enough to believe that they could compete with itunes if they kissed the asses of enough content providers. They can't, nor can anyone else really. That battle has already been fought and apple is winning by an overwhelming margin. Their best bet is to make quality players with as much compatibility as possible and forget the music stores and DRM ass-kissing that comes with running one.
I don't know but saying that they're crippled and unpopular is speaking for a whole lot of people who don't think so. I don't have one but I'm in the process of evaluating a bunch since I do need a new one and I've been reading discussions on just about every Zune discussion site. It's true that it's limited in what music and video formats that it plays but I don't know that I'd call that "crippled". Also 75 percent of the customer reviews on NewEgg rate it five stars, and as I say most people who buy them (as per what I've read on the discussion boards) seem to be happy with them. The Zune 80gb is after all the biggest screen (3.2 inches) with the most capacity for what amounts to just about the least amount of money.
Prediction: The real iPhone killer is going to be sex robots from Japan. Think about it.
Seriously, how? Unless MS manages to develop strong AI, which can tell that my torrented Battlestar episode is in fact Battlestar and thus property of Universal, there's no way to make this work.
So how do figure out that some random video is owned by some studio? Unless every video gets a watermark this is essentially impossible.
The only methods I see coming out of this are:
1) Zune only plays DRMd videos. Period.
2) Every time you attempt to copy a non-DRMd video to your zune, it is forwarded to a poor sap in Bangalore who looks it over and decides if it's kosher or not.
3) Watermarking. We all know how well that works.
4) Magic strong-AI which can do this on your computer ( or zune ). Good luck, MS! NBC has you over a barrel.
lorem ipsum, dolor sit amet
"... non-legitimately purchased content"? At first I thought this was editorializing by the submitter, but no, TFA contains that exact quote. I garner two ugly conclusions from this statement from Mr. Perrette:
- 1) Your device will soon only play "purchased" content. No home movies for you.
- 2) Your device will soon only play content purchased from us.
I think Microsoft has figured out what Step 2 is:
1. Create media player with subscription services.
2. Shoot self in foot by crippling said player to the point no one wants it.
3. Profit!?
Yes, and not two days ago you were telling us other things about Microsoft. That was trolling too.
MOD PARENT UP.
"A clunky form factor that's trying hard to match competition from three years ago."
Is the Zune the Vista of music players, or is Vista the Zune of operating systems?
Microsoft seems unable to do business sensibly. Maybe Gates and Ballmer are getting tired of working every day. What motivates a billionaire to keep producing mediocre results?
Not to mention that the extra processing needed for the wiz bang water marking technology will reduce battery life.
How much? Who knows, but extra design constraints always create compromises and battery life is one place it is likely to show up.
I have a zune and I love it. These replies are hurting my feelings.
I just couldn't deal with the small screen of the similarly priced ipod. The downside though is that there are no freaking accessories. You can go to any online site and find 150 different cases for the iPod. From diamond encrusted cases to cases cut from the t-shirts of workers from sweatshops. Same online store you'll find like 2 for the zune. And they both cost $249.99.
OK Microsoft-faithful and Apple-haters - listen up. This is why everyone says that Microsoft is 'uncool'.
In spite of a few missteps as of late, Microsoft is still the biggest, richest, most powerful company in tech today. And yet, they have their tongues so far up the record and movie industry's *ss that it isn't even funny anymore. No one respects an obsequious brown-noser. If they had any spine at all, they would tell the record and movie execs the Truth (that they're living on borrowed time) and that the only way to continue to make any money at all is to trust their customers.
Apple was upbraiding the record industry execs for a good three years during and through the Napster debacle. Apple was telling them that customer-hostile DRM that took away obvious and visible consumer rights wouldn't work, they were telling them that the bottom would fall out of the CD business, and they were offering Apple's services as a customer-friendly alternative to some of the loser businesses the record industry was trying at the time (like PressPlay). It's not like the folks at Apple were geniuses for recognizing all of these things - it's just that they have their own protected platform and they're in the software business so they know full-well how futile copy-protection really is.
When the record execs finally realized that everything Apple had been saying was right, they had lost a good fraction of their business and they were desperate to try something new.
The guys who run Microsoft will never have the balls to tell a potential business partner that. They have enough money in the bank to BUY any one of the record companies that they're sucking up to, and yet they behave like the record companies' servile bitch. And that's why they'll never be considered 'cool'.
This isn't the first time Microsoft has retrofitted already-sold products with patches or policies that remove functionality or add aggravation. From the nag they tacked on to Windows menus asking you if your copy is legit to their "This copy of Windows is not genuine" cripple to Windows Update refusing updates to a validly-licensed Windows 2000 (I typed the key in myself years prior from their hologrammed hardcopy distributed with the software, and there was no chance the key was illicit or used inappropriately) to Microsoft refusing to activate a Windows XP laptop with the license/key on the bottom of the machine -- supposedly, with the last, I can call them and plead my case with one of their phone workers.
All of this after the software was paid for. Terms introduced after the sale. All of these things kick into effect in the normal course of using the product -- indeed, you must risk experiencing them in order to keep your product secure and functional down the road. Isn't that something you would think morally would be an implicit obligation of theirs upon sale of the product, not an extra feature used to impose additional terms on your use?
So, surprise, surprise, now they're pulling it with expensive hardware. Feel free to enjoy yourselves, on your dime and on their terms. It's just the logical extension of the crap we put up with in the software world. Can't wait until the portables have to have a direct connection to the Internet to authorize your usage, you scumbag customer.
I'm sick of hearing about this. Lets dispel some myths.
1: You can copy music on and off an iPod with great ease. There is no magic DRM preventing this *at all*.
2: Apple are quite happy to let you rip their music to cd, and then to mp3. It's no different, and sounds no different from ripping a bought music cd.
3: The iPod only has DRM on it because Apple new they would get sued to fuck if they didn't, or if they went around allowing direct circumvention. By allowing copying to audio cd they avoid this via the fair use claim.
4: A *lot* of available iPod content is not DRM'd anyway.
A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
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Finally, a reason not to buy a Zune.
Game... blouses.
It goes without saying that Apple Inc., formerly Apple Computer, Inc., is among the greatest threats to centuries of progress brought about from Christian society. Having direct involvement in Islamic fascism, they are determined to undermine America and conservative values at any cost.
Apple was founded late winter in 2001, shortly after the events of September 11, 2001 with the single focus of supporting the work of al Quaeda and Osama bin Laden. At the helm is “Steve Jobs”, better known within terrorism circles as Stennuh al Joqidah, and traitor Al Gore. These men, who are likely engaged in physical liaisons, are intellectual leaders of the vast left-wing fascist movement, which is constituted primarily of homosexuals, minorities, atheists, and scientists. Under the auspice of selling personal computers and iPods, Apple have infiltrated millions of American homes and are now targeting dozens of American businesses.
At the tip of their spear is the Macintosh, widely known as the “Gay Computer”. These computers, which do not run the Christian operation system Microsoft Windows, are in use almost exclusively within the homosexual community. At their core is “Darwin”, software that affects nearly every aspect of the Macintosh and works to promote evolution and other atheist and scientific agendas. These machines will routinely promote materials from liberals, including Jon Stewart, while simultaneously censoring the works of true patriots like Bill O'Reilly.
Following the Macintosh is the ever-present and highly dangerous iPod (and its cousin, the iPhone). These two devices, currently in the hands of literally hundreds of millions of American youth, fill the heads of listeners with endless Islamic and homosexual propaganda. The dangers here are self-evident, but even more frightening is the telecommunications services of the iPhone. To protect God-fearing Americans from the satanic forces at work in the world, the American government must listen in on phone conversations. (Incidentally, an activity that receives strong criticism from criminal liberals everywhere.) However, to thwart the forces of righteousness, Apple in conjunction with ATT, uses the iPhone to prevent wiretapping, and thus prevents law enforcement from defusing terrorist plots.
In our chaotic world, we cannot afford to let these threats remain unchecked. Apple, receiving inspiration from the original sin, is attempting to destroy America and usurp Jesus at the behest of closely-allied Islamic extremists and atheists. If left to their druthers, the world will no longer be safe for our children and all patriotic Americans are encouraged to smash their Macintoshes, iPods, iPhones (anything bearing the Apple logo) and drive these cretins off our shores. Thank you for reading.
Vista is DRM and restriction overload and doesn't sell. Zune barely sells now, it's not even available in the UK.
Good luck Microsoft. Customers buy features not ball and chains.
There are already dozens of devices that work with all the stuff I download from the internet. I gather that even the iPod will (although I think it's fairly fussy about formats), and will play purchased videos from iTunes.
So there's good reason for content providers to support it, but what reason is there to buy the thing? Why are Microsoft going the screw-the-customer route? It never worked for Sony, but at least they had an understandable concern that their chunk of the media cartel would lose out if they didn't restrict everyone.
The Zune - physically and on paper - is a great device.
The whole "Plays For Sure (But Not Really)" fiasco and, yes, the DRM ruined its potential. As a media player it's great.
If MS had a proper store (and a single cohesive DRM scheme), the Zune would have been better off. The iPod didn't magically become popular overnight. The Zune at least has decent, reliable hardware and a price advantage when compared to the iPod.
I doubt this new DRM scheme will be effective, but to the casuals, any inconvenience or stumbling block is a huge turn off. If they hear from a friend that the Zune can't play videos from x, they'll opt to buy their 7th iPod instead.
The elephant in the room, of course, is the Apple lock in. If you leave the iPod for greener pastures, say good bye to your portable music library. Until some company can solve that issue, no one will be able to dethrone the iPod.
Maybe you shouldn't be annoyed with Twitter, in this case. His extremely negative evaluation was only as negative as that of the New York Times. Quote:
"If you like to download the latest episodes of "Heroes" or other NBC shows from BitTorrent, maybe you shouldn't buy a Microsoft Zune to watch them on. [my emphasis]
"A future update of the software for Microsoft's portable media player may well include a feature that will block unauthorized copies of copyrighted videos from being played on it."
Consider this: Someone bought a Zune, believing that he understood the features of the product. But later, Microsoft, in an "update", changes the way it works. That's nasty. It teaches customers that they can't trust Microsoft or a Microsoft product.
The problem of course is almost all content is free. It's expression he's charging for.
If you learn from watching NBC News Obama got 4 superdelegates last night, you're free to tell anyone, post it on your website, give that fact away from free; that's content and NBC can't control it.
If you post bits encoding the NBC TV news broadcast, you're violating NBC's copyright, and you're not free to do that, that's expression and NBC owns its expression.
Perhaps someone could explain this in terms so simple that an NBC executive could understand it.
A key difference: content doesn't get played back. That's expression. Or product, or video, or show, or entertainment, or media; any of those can be played back. There's no player for content. Either you get it or you don't. Either it's conveyed in the material played back or it isn't.
An illustration: some NBC programming is content-free.
"non-legitimately purchased content"
How do I non-legitimately purchase content? Are they talking about black-market Seinfeld videos?
We'll take the portable music player with a tiny tiny market share and make it so that you can't listen to music you haven't purchased from us! We'll either do VERY well, or destroy the Zune once and for all.
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
Have you noticed a new trend in digital media? NBC has most of their shows online for free. South Park has all of their online for free. Hulu.com hosts more TV shows that most people would want to watch in a lifetime online for FREE!
The problem with all of these services is that you have to put sitting in front of a computer to use them. IF these media companies can figure out a way to put their content (and with it, their ads) onto a portable device...well, then DRM be damned, I'm buying whatever device that IS.
This is a strategic, relationship building move by microsoft. NOthing more.
NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
On both shipped Zunes!
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Why is it the products Responsibility? Does your CAR send out notice to police if you speed or stop you from speeding? What if I use the device in different jurisdiction where those DRM law do not exist? If some how I do manage to run copy protected works on the ZUNE and get hit by a law suit via the RIAA then am I protected because I assume the ZUNE as acting as a controller? I am not a lawyer but to me if a products goes to such an extent to enforce copy protection then the liability of infringement would fall to the ZUNE and to Microsoft (after I could argue that I thought I was protected because of the heavy restrictions on the device).
My Sig indicates the end of the comment I posted.
Slashdot is so ridiculous bias and panders to whomever will crank their stats the most, it's a useless resource unless you want to sit around jerking off about how much you hate Microsoft.
Please don't reward this type of activity by modding him up.
i've had just about enough of your vassar bashing.
it's = it is. its = possessive form of it. Compare with 'hers,' 'theirs,' 'yours.'
...if you're using a Microsoft product you deserve to be treated like a criminal.
I can understand how a 'copyright cop' could work on a site like youtube, no problem for them to store a massive database of file or video hashes of all the content.
But how are they going to put that in the Zune or the Zune software? You're either going to have to download a massive new set of hashes for the previous day's new torrents, or you're going to have to upload your content to Microsoft before you can transfer it to your Zune.
Why do I have to be connected to the internet to watch my 'home movies' on my (hypothetical) Zune?
The opinions in this post are ficticious. Any similarity to actual opinions, real or imagined, is purely coincidental.
This story is tagged "flamebait". I guess telling the truth to Microsoft fanboys is bad, because the fanboys will flame you.
I'm fascinated by how simulated security like DRM attracts anonymous, cowardly snipers blackmailing the world with threats that they'll melt down when their delusion is confronted with the truth.
--
make install -not war
http://zuneinsider.com/archive/2008/05/07/just-so-no-one-gets-the-wrong-idea.aspx
They say this isn't coming or planned.
It's already been done. I can watch all of Revision3's programming (ie, Diggnation,) on my TV with either my Xbox 360 or my AppleTV or an iPod. Also WineLibraryTV (Gary Vaynerchuk will be on Conan O'Brien next week, btw) and many, many more. Their sponsors have my eyeballs. Legal, commercial programming by RSS feed. Welcome to 2005. Any TV network that isn't doing this TODAY should be sued by their shareholders for negligence, IMO.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Thats all great, and video-blogging is what seems to have sparked the current trend (commercial television studios started noticing that you can make MONEY on the internet). Just don't confuse home-made, low-budget free video-blogs that are distributed over the internet with the multi-million-dollar-making behemoths that are found on NBC.
Thing about the difference between systm and The Office. While YOU might enjoy systm (or whatever they call it now), it isn't really in the same category as something like 24, or 30 rock.
NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
Not very newsworthy IMHO. Few people have it, even fewer people want it as the Zune totally pales in comparison with what Apple is offering. Zune is a desperate me-too, and it shows.
Insert
Comment removed based on user account deletion
have a sense of humour. That Zune logo, when reflected upside down looks just like 'anus'.
And then they managed to hire some guy called S Plus Ark to design a mouse that not only works like crap, but also "unfortunately looks like a vagina".
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Are there any alternative firmware projects for the Zune? I haven't found any. It seems like decent hardware with the wireless and FM, and reasonably priced. But I wouldn't give the standard MS firmware 5 minutes of my time, for many reasons.
Copyright cop and big brother in every Zune.
M$ wants make sure you have "legal" copy and wants to track what you listen and view on your Zune so they can "market" more stuff to you. Also they can send the officials the music, shows and movies if they "objectionable".
I catch the train and bus to work every day and I have seen maybe two... yes "TWO!!" Zunes in the last year. I have seen more people using Nokia mobile phones to listen to music than Zunes by a factor of 100. Also people keep thinking everyone listens to music when they have an iPOD. Sorry but I as a long time iPOD user listen to podcasts and audio books way more than music. So the stereo typical iPOD user only listening to music and being a pre-pubescent teenager is utter rubbish.
Sorry, but this blogger is at a pretty low level compared to the people that make the deals. NBC said part of the deal was a "cop", so there is something there even if this blogger has no inkling of it just yet.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
MSFT pays per Zune manufactured to "Universal/NBC as a bribe/fee. Now, Uni/NBC wants MSFT to monitor/censor content that sits on customers Zunes. Exactly how does the customer fare in this unholy money sucking corporate sandwich?
There is no security when liberty is sacrificed.
Actually, if you read this
http://zuneinsider.com/archive/2008/05/07/just-so-no-one-gets-the-wrong-idea.aspx
it might make you a bit happier.
At least microsoft arent complete assholes
(BTW, for you guys to lazy to go to the link, its basically microsoft saying it isnt gonna happen.
You know what's interesting...I have read all these posts in this thread declaring how this is a great reason to not buy a Zune, and how dare Microsoft take away their rights, etc. etc.
However, what is the real issue here? I mean I don't get why this upsets everyone? If you take the time to research and read what the information is on this, basically they're saying you can't download ripped/crippled or illegally copied versions of video and play it on a Zune. Who cares!?
In the end, I can still download real, valid content. I wouldn't expect a Zune or iPod to allow playing not gathered via a "valid" distribution channel. As a consumer and practical person, I know that in order for me to enjoy content that's well produced, it's not free. So if I pay for Marketplace, iTunes or subscribe to a free podcast, then I'm happy because I know that (a) I'm supporting content I want instead of getting forced to buy channels or content I don't want (i.e. cable or directv) and (b) I'm doing it legitimately without any worries.
In the end, if all I want to do is rip cd's and listen to them, neither Zune nor iPod or any other player is stopping me from doing that. So I fail to see why this is "the death of the Zune". I think this is more just a reason to bash Microsoft, when really you could find this type of issue with iPod or anything else.
Let's make no mistake, Apple isn't really a saint in similar regards here either. While they might wish for DRM free content they can sell, they still want to sell it. They still want you locked in to the iPod and more importantly iTunes. All businesses who are developing content and marketplaces around content want this. The player is just a delivery device. So really the question is if you're happy with content delivery by the maker of your device and are you ok with how portable that content is (or isn't).
Let's stop kidding ourselves here, anyone can find a reason why this is a bad idea and/or find the evil in MSFT's interest in doing this, however if you really look at the underlying motive for hating this it's simply because many of you railing against this don't want any restrictions on what you play/view/copy to your device. And frankly, I think this has alot to do with the fact that many people are downloading content from torrents or other places that violates copyright. So this "how dare they not let me get my content for free" attitude is mis-guided. In order to have devices like this out there, there has to be a compelling reason to make them. Just making devices isn't profitable and so in order to make good devices (and honestly the Zune, especially the 4GB little one, is not a bad device) there needs to be a profit model that will both deliver a good experience and make it worth it.
Each company doing this wants you locked in to their delivery mechanism and they want to make money from it, if you don't like that, then iPod and Zune both aren't for you. So whatever you do don't sit here and righteously declare how evil this is on one hand and then turn and download the last episode of The Office from a torrent site.
Now, go ahead and flame away, but you guys know I'm right and if you look close enough you can see the hypocrisy in the reactions here.
Btw, I own an ipod, I don't work for MS and I don't like the music industry. But I do have an appreciation and understanding of how innovation, capitalism and my world all interact. So frankly, I'm not pissed about Zune users missing out on illegal copies of NBC shows and am quite happy to participate in iTunes by buying what I use. Do I think the artists get a fare shake for my downloaded music I buy? not really, but then again, maybe the artists need to change the game...
s
here here! The great irony of this debate
iTunes songs that have had their Fairplay DRM stripped
.net, and possibly some WGA certified client, and other stuff I don't have.
When did iTunes provide a DRM stripper? You couldn't possibly be suggesting a DMCA volation here are you? I was speaking of legal activities.
Also, the iPod will play the 1 million+ DRM-free songs at the Zune Marketplace (320kbps MP3).
I had no idea Microsoft joined in the DRM free music business. I knew the Zune played DRM free AAC files, but the DRM free ones are higher priced. I'll have to check it out if it's not too much trouble. I heard it takes somekind of currancy other than dollars (Zune Points or something), some exchange account, Direct X,
I heard you can't even browse the site and library without an account. Does it work with Firefox?
The truth shall set you free!
If this was Apple doing this everyone would be lining up to download the latest update without questioning their Utopian technology overlords.
You know what, this is a very insightful comment. I totally disagree with the statement that they can not fight the iPod, and no one else even stands a chance, because it's plain silly.
Microsoft beat the pants off the much better Apple once before because they did exactly what you mention and exactly what everyone is thinking they should be doing in regards to this situation. Apple made those pretty Macs, and people loved them. Microsoft beat them because they brought together a variety of hardware vendors together under their software platform. (Which they purchased, have to say it, can't resist the urge; Dave Cutler essentially wrote NT -> XP, and parts of Vista!)
All Microsoft has to do is create a hardware and software platform this time that does what Windows (once) did: Just Exist. Make the thing power on and talk to devices with common USB comm protocols, play music and video and just work. Don't build this system that takes care of the user, because many of us don't want that. We want a gadget we can play music on and tinker with - even on your limited level Microsoft!
Or, create a hands off software platform to unite those other hardware vendors against Apple - let the hardware manufacturer put the DRM on your platform.
MS: Get back to the BASICS and learn that your software platform is very successful. You don't have to fight Apple on the hardware front.
Get your Unix fortune now!
YOU don't get to create content. That is the job of big corporations, who not only want sole ownership over creation of content, but also a way to charge you every time you view that content.
Even if Microsoft does create a way to create your own content and put it on the Zune, you don't think it's going to be open do you? I'm sure they'd be just as happy to let you put whatever you want on your Zune, as long as they get to tax that transaction. They might do it in little ways, like forcing you to run Windows and a Windows program to do it, or they might charge you by the megabyte to upload YOUR content to YOUR Zune. Linux and Mac users need not apply.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Wow! Weasel words are awesome! It'd be nice if people cared about article neutrality on Slashdot at even 1/1000th the level they do for net neutrality.
"As if the Zune wasn't already [...] unpopular enough"
You mean like Firefox a few years back, when it started from nothing and stole a few small percentage points from the reigning juggernaut?
"just another nail in the coffin if [sic] the Zune"
I doubt it. Microsoft's recent announcement concerning the lack of future for (the Zune incompatible) PlaysForSure DRM implies that they're going to focus even more of their attention on the Zune. And the second generation of Zunes seem to have been better received than the first.
Complaining aside though, I've had an iPod Nano for a year now and I love it. Even though the Zune doesn't really concern me, I'm not happy with what Microsoft is doing. The only rationale I can come up with is that including the copyright cop may make more media providers sign exclusive deals with Microsoft rather than signing with Apple (and that of course is a complete guess).
The only thing that counts from the perspective of the TV networks is that they get the advertising dollars. The only thing that counts to advertisers is that their products and services are remembered. Is a network like Revision3 big yet? No, but they do produce quality programming and have sponsorship from companies like Netflix, GoDaddy & Virgin Airlines. At this point in time, they are more of a competitor to cable niche channels like G4.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
So, all I've read here is complete garbage on how Microsoft's Zune sucks...when no one here has ever even seen or used a Zune more than likely...as some have stated at least. So let me break it down for you...the Zune as a HDD player is better than the iPod Classic, the Zune as a flash player is just as good as an iPod Nano. I've own 3 iPods, and I've own 1 Zune 80. So far, I love the Zune much more than the iPod; just yesterday I received a Zune software update which has finally made the software not a complete piece of crap. There are great social features, radio, wireless, a slick interface, a "squircle" which is surprisingly easier to use than a scroll wheel. Go to Best Buy and play with a -new- Zune...aka second generation. The first generation, I frankly found to be a brick with a screen; however the Zune 80 is a different beast. The screen is beautiful and it has so many more features than an iPod equivalent. Now you can sync your Zune with WMP or iTunes thanks to a hack (Google it.)
It really is a good device and Microsoft is making steps to combine the Xbox Live Marketplace with the Zune marketplace, which (in my opinion) will finally give iTunes a competitor. Anyhow I am willing to bet this technology never sees the light of day, a) the source is a blog on at New York Times and b) DMR has been a market failure. Just because Microsoft has blueprints of it, doesn't mean it will go to market; Microsoft will likely filter it through market testing or dumb it down just enough so they can find a happy medium for publishers and customers. The problem is that Microsoft needs to listen to the publishers, because they have such a small marketshare; Apple doesn't have an obligation...yet because of its massive marketshare; like I said though, Microsoft has plans to combine the Zune Marketplace and the Xbox Live Marketplace...and I think that could eventually compete with iTunes quite nicely, especially with the Zune's wireless syncing capabilities and the Xbox's user base.
Sounds to me like it could have a cocksucking feature and you'd still turn your nose up at it because it wouldn't agree to stick it's finger in your ass or lick your balls.
Just sayn'.
May put a copyright cop in Zume? Guys it's been there since day one. Microsoft was sticking DRM into its PlaysForSure crap before Zume even existed.
Steven
I'm far from being M$ biggest fan (or any fan) but I bought a refurbished 30GB Zune for $75 almost a year ago and I just love it. It works great, plays every song and every video I throw at it.
Microsoft showed their true colours when they screwed everyone over with the PlaysForSure fiasco.
The fact that Microsoft could and did use DRM to prevent their own customers from playing media they already paid good money for through a legitimate MS Music store is enough to keep me away from ever buying a Zune (or any MS DRM-based product) forever.
> Of course there's no way to tell legitimate content that you create from 'non-legitimate' content, so this looks like just another nail in the coffin if the Zune.
Of course there is. User created content will have the evil bit cleared, while pirated content will have said bit set.
if the answer isn't violence, neither is your silence / freedom of expression doesn't make it alright
Sorry but MS are very good at listening to customers. Its just that they only listen to their business customers and nobody else. This worked extremely well for them with Windows and Office and in theory should have worked with the Zune too. Unfortunately they do not seem to have realized that in this case their business customers, the RIAA, are employing kamikazee tactics. They are more interested in ensuring that nobody can ever listen to content in a manner they have not personally approved than they are about making a successful, profitable product.
I don't care what anyone says. I love my 80 gig Zune. It kicks any Ipod's ass in the same or prior generation. It's got radio and a huge screen. I love it.
But most of this is irrelevant if you realize that (1) as others have said, this plan has a high risk of falling through, and (2) the Zune is, when you get it home, a sexy piece of machinery that works really well when you know how to get stuff that costs no money. Is Microsoft a little behind in the times? Yeah, maybe. But I don't wan't an itouch. My rule is if I can break it with one hand, I'm not spending $350 on it, especially for only 16 gigs. The Zune has all the core features for $250 at 80 gigs. that's a lot of pr0- I mean music. Damn, I've been beat: http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=546252&cid=23332152
Or maybe it was the may 6 colbert report?
He mentioned the zune!
There is only one way to make a machine capable of identifying copyright material, and I heartily endorse Microsoft using that way. Specifically, putting all the copyright material on the Zune, so that it can be compared against any I might put on. In fact if they do that, I promise never to put any copyright material on it myself.
It doesn't matter if or how it plays music. The only reason anyone ever buys a zune is to piss off smug mac users. Seriously though, trusted computing is crap. I won't buy anything that has it.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
http://www.news.com/8301-13860_3-9938650-56.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
What most distinguishes Apple from Microsoft is Apple's willingness, and ability, to sacrifice portions of a market in order to gain elsewhere.
Microsoft has pursued being all things to all computer users, with increasingly disastrous results. They end up being only a lame little bit to a lot of people. Apple has, for years, aggressively pursued the higher-end user niche, to whom they've become virtual demigods.
This has allowed Apple to be nimble and modern while Microsoft lags behind, tied to its legacy. Linux developers could learn a whole lot from this.
They just released the XNA 3.0 beta today, with Zune dev support. With that info in mind, this copyright info makes more sense. The XNA framework allows access to all non-DRM media.
MS has denied without actually denying it.
They didn't say "This is false and a rumor, MS would never do this".
It's worded much more carefully.
Because Apple are contractually obliged to keep all itunes unlocking bugs fixed on all platforms itunes DRM is supported. If they don't patch within a (very short) time, they lose the catalogue.
That's a risk, and a huge one.
And it is why Apple don't want to open up iTunes DRM because if, say, Microsoft's ZuneII had a bug that allowed iTunes DRM protected music to be copied freely, Apple would have to give a fix (without access to internals, maybe) quick enough to appease the labels or lose their catalogue of music.
That would, of course, leave Apple out of the portable music market and this would not be a reason for MS to obscure a but to open up the MS DRM to take its place. Oh no. Honest. No, really...
This is probably just part of their strategy. Sure it's not what consumers want but it's what the tv studios want. If Zune offers it and ipod doesn't then maybe tv studios will ONLY partner with Microsoft and not allow content on Itunes? Does MS have their own version of Itunes? i don't even know but maybe that's on their roadmap if they can lock in the studios.
I was going to take issue with the same quote. Accepting technology control measures like DRM affects *everyone.
.. copyright infringement is pretty bad, but it's not as bad as subversive speech/hate speech/insert-whatever-someone-would-like-to-suppress...
Thought experiment: in a decade or so, when the RIAA and MPAA no longer exist, what good will all these Trusted Computing Modules be?
Gee
Surely these modules could be refurbished to help fight the War Against Nonpatriotic Stuff!
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
I love my iPod, and although I acknowledge that I think it's "cooler" than other players, that's not the main reason.
I should acknowledge that I got mine for free by winning a musical contest, so cost wasn't a factor. I had been listening to mp3s in WinAmp at home for years, and burning mp3 CDs to listen to in the car, so I was pumped.
But what really got me excited was when I installed iTunes. Yes, it's bloated and slow, but it scratched a major itch for me: a way to organize my music collection. I had cases full of CDs that I had started to get tired of alphabetizing. iTunes made my collection easy to organize, easy to sort into playlists, and let me see the lovely cover art. I know, who cares, right? But I like my music collection. I like to see it as well as hear it.
Syncing is easy, ripping is easy, etc etc. DRM isn't a problem because I pretty much only buy CDs, and if I buy more music online I will make sure it's DRM-free (maybe via Amazon).
Now for this "style" factor you disdain so much. My wife had a Sandisk mp3 player that was ugly, needed batteries (which means that the battery door can get knocked open), had a terrible and confusing user interface, and needed to be put into an armband to strap on for a workout. After it died (my fault (sarcastic) for formatting it, because I couldn't find any other way to delete some music off it), I got her an iPod Shuffle, which is easy to use, smaller, has no battery compartment, and has a built-in clip. For working out, it's perfect.
My Nano has a great UI and is a pleasure to use. The whole experience, from ripping a CD to selecting songs on the device, is a pleasure. How is that irrelevant?
There may be other good products on the market, but frankly it's easier to buy something I know will be well-designed than try my luck on another product.
What would make me switch? Well, maybe if something else became popular. Am I a sheep? Nope. I call that "not volunteering to be a beta tester."
http://zuneinsider.com/archive/2008/05/07/just-so-no-one-gets-the-wrong-idea.aspx
Other sites have all had retractions, dispelled the FUD with other facts, and yet on SlashDot the conversation still goes on like this is true?
Next week monkeys from Mars, and we can discuss it for a whole month before anyone notices it IS NOT REAL...
The Motorola m500, however, just showed up as a drive in Windows and the interface consisted of just copying files (or whole folders) in Windows Explorer. THAT was easy. iTunes, on the other hand, is kind of a pain in the ass. I use it, but it's not at all intuitive (for me).
On the other hand, the gifter of the aforementioned shuffle received a Zune as part of another purchase. Though she had trouble with the Zune software, I thought it was very easy. It showed me hierarchical folders and building a smartlist was a piece of cake.
I haven't actually used the Zune itself, other than helping her populate her music, but I agree that the interface is definitely a positive.
Seriously, Don't take anything I say seriously.
This story came and went yesterday.
http://www.news.com/8301-13860_3-9938650-56.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-5
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Everytime you buy a Zune, Steve Jobs kills a kitten.
I think Zune is one kind of player, where MS focus on blocking different kind of contents instead of playing all kinds of contents. The wrong focus (IMHO) leads to bad design and hence reduced usability. I am worried that Zune still sells even only in small numbers. (Why?)
I know, don't feed the trolls, but...
Back to the point, consumers buy what works. Sometimes they buy restricted stuff if the price is right and the restriction isn't too bad.
Sounds to me like it could have a
The point is it is lacking many basic features. I don't run Windows anything WGA. An iPod and Creative Zen Vision both connect to my Ubuntu box just fine. I have not checked recently, but last time I checked, there was no lib for the Zune. It doesn't connect as an external USB storrage drive where MP3s and videos can be dropped to play on the device. (Neither does the other two players mentioned but they have Linux support) My super cheap Coby player does support drag and drop as a USB storrage device, which is why I bought it. It does not support any DRM format. This is not a problem as I don't buy DRM. I can directly load the songs on the player's limited built in memory, or simply load up a SD flash card and plug it in. It includes a built in FM radio and directly records MP3's from the radio or built in mic. Not bad for a $40 player.
If you want to send me a Zune, fine, I'll see if it can record off the radio and if I can then copy the recordings off the unit to my Linux PC. I'll see if I can find any Zune lib support so I can copy my MP3's to the Zune. It may do some fantastic things, but if it is incompatible with what I would use it for, it's pretty much useless. I would have to borrow someone's Windows PC to load songs on it.
The truth shall set you free!
It's seems a pointless and bizarre inclusion to the product's features In any event, wouldn't we just download some little trick program from a bittorrent site somewhere to "fix" any files which don't play while the accompanying trojan sends our credit card details to the Russian mafia.
Real happiness lies in the completion of work using your own brains and skills.
This is the greatest thing I've ever heard of! If anyone can pull this off it's Microsoft. Imagine, your very own Copyright Cop in every Zune. The Zune will become the ultimate defense against the RIAA and MPAA. "Hey, It plays on my Zune. It must be legal!" Boy, I hope Microsoft releases this technology soon.
According to zuneinsider.com and zuneboards.com this is a big misunderstanding. And MS is actually trying to go more "open source" by allowing u to program for your zune with the release of XNA 3 beta today.
mp3->CD is lossless, because CD is a lossless format. CD->mp3 is always lossy because mp3 is a lossy format. mp3->CD->mp3 = mp3->mp3 reencode. mp3->CD->FLAC = lossless.
But it comes in brown.
"Sorry Microsoft could not verify the license for your opinion, so we are unable to listen to it at this time. Please contact the vendor of that opinion to download the appropriate license."