Shigeru Miyamoto, The Walt Disney of Our Time

circletimessquare writes "The New York Times has a gushing portrait of Shigeru Miyamoto. His creative successes have spanned almost 30 years, from Donkey Kong, to Mario (as well known as Mickey Mouse around the world, the story notes), to Zelda, to the Wii, and now to Wii Fit — which according to some initial rumors is selling out across the globe in its debut. The article has some gems of insight into the man's thinking, including that his iconic characters are an afterthought. Gameplay comes first, and the characters are designed around that. Additionally, his fame and finances and ego are refreshingly modest for someone of his high regard and creative stature: 'despite being royalty at Nintendo and a cult figure, he almost comes across as just another salaryman (though a particularly creative and happy one) with a wife and two school-age children at home near Kyoto. He is not tabloid fodder, and he seems to maintain a relatively nondescript lifestyle.'"

Comments

You know what that means!

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

We get to freeze his head as well!

Re:You know what that means!

[canajin56]

It's an urban legend that Walt Disney became increasingly interested in cryogenics in his later years, requested to be frozen when he died, and was frozen after he died.

All three parts are untrue. It's impossible to rule out that Walt Disney had even heard of cryogenics, but there's certainly no proof he did, let alone that he became obsessed with the idea. He was, in fact, cremated, the polar opposite of being frozen, if there is one!

Re:You know what that means!

[Anonymous Coward]

He was, in fact, cremated, the polar opposite of being frozen, if there is one!

Polar ehh? That was the worst pun ever.

Re:You know what that means!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I can't bear the pun of cremation as the polar opposite of being frozen.

Re:You know what that means!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I can't bear the pun of cremation as the polar opposite of being frozen. The polar opposite of an ursine myth is the truth about Goldilocks.

Re:You know what that means!

[Culture20]

Elian!

Re:You know what that means!

[Lord_of_the_nerf]

Only after he sells out all other creators to some sort of 'terrorism' commission.

Re:You know what that means!

[code4fun]

According to a "Big Secrets" book by William Poundstone, Disney's death certificate is available to anyone from the Los Angeles County registrar's office. Dr. Bert H. Cotton listed cause of death as "cardiac arrest". His body was cremated at Forest Lawn, Glendale on December 17, 1966. It also cites that they located Disney's gravesite. Quoting from the book:

"Big Secrets located Disney's gravesite. Much like Disneyland, Forest Lawn is divided into thematic sections: Slumberland, Vale of Memory, Babyland, etc. Disney's gravesite is in an area known as the Court of Freedom. This is on the eastern extremity of the park, about as far from the entrance as possible."

Japanese not creative?

[timeOday]

This guy certainly seems to shatter that stereotype. Yet not in the reckless or flamboyant way we associate with creativity here.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[pedantic bore]

Umm... how many Japanese people do you know?

I haven't noticed any lack of creativity. They do seem a bit more preoccupied with consensus and protocol, which gives the appearance of a lack of spontaneity, but don't let that fool you the way it fooled the American automotive industry, or the semiconductor world, or the consumer electronics world (or the anime world...).

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Anonymous Coward]

(or the anime world...). Seriously, anyone who has seen anime has got to admit that not only are the japanese creative, but that they can also be batshit friggan insanely creative to the point of seeming incoherent.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[TitusC3v5]

You haven't seen many Japanese game shows, have you?

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Anonymous Coward]

they can also be batshit friggan insanely creative to the point of seeming incoherent.

Tentacle hentai is perfectly coherent. They're demons, they have lots and lots of tentacles, and they like using them. What's so hard to understand?

Though I do understand your point. They're not incoherent though - Americans just aren't used to having to be observant. They'll have several shots containing different information, then mention the combination of information later without spoon-feeding it to the viewer.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[pedantic bore]

Well put.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Deadstick]

...and all they had going in was the Zero fighter and the Long Lance torpedo...who knew?

rj

Re:Japanese not creative?

[KDR_11k]

Most japanese games tend to use more creativity, their weakness tends to be in technical problems like pathfinding algorithms, AI, random/procedural content generation, sandbox-style games, etc. Usually the japanese games have better stories and more new ideas but the western games have better technology, more meaningful choices for the player (even the more simplistic RPGs these days seem to have a basic good/evil choice, the jRPGs I see lack even that), etc. Or at least that's the impression I got.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[KDR_11k]

Once you get over the novelty of the cultural difference most anime tends to be even less creative than your average sitcom.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[timeOday]

I agree. I also think it is entirely foolish for us to imagine that Chinese or Indians will be content indefinitely to do all the hard work while the bosses at our importer / branding companies (such as Levis and Nike) take most of the profits.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Tablizer]

I agree. I also think it is entirely foolish for us to imagine that Chinese or Indians will be content indefinitely to do all the hard work while the bosses at our importer / branding companies (such as Levis and Nike) take most of the profits.

That is exactly what a lot of Asian economies seem to actually want. It seems they fear they will lose their work ethic if they outsource the "real work" to cheaper nations, and thus they keep their currencies artificially low and do not help boost local consumption. The US instead outsources a lot of the detailed work, turning us into marketers and lawyers instead of actual "producers". Whether this is a good thing or not depends on what you want to achieve. It has killed our manufacturing base and is eating into programming and hands-on tech jobs, but also gives us lots of shinny cheap trinkets and fat cars.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, anyone who has seen anime has got to admit that not only are the japanese creative, but that they can also be batshit friggan insanely creative to the point of seeming incoherent. Are you kidding me? I love anime, but you have to admit that it's incredibly formulaic. A good 95% of it is either of the mecha or the 'magical girl' variety. Sometimes, you even get both (e.g. Escaflowne).

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Bashae]

There are several hundreds of anime series and even if 'most' are boring (and I agree with that), that still leaves dozens of interesting and original ones!

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Anonymous Coward]

American story driven games are just often more open ended than Japanese games, but that's just cultural differences as far as I can tell. Most of the technology you are talking about is out there and completely free to learn and use; they just choose not to for whatever reasons.

Have you seen Japanese cars and robots? They're certainly not lacking in the technology department.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Dogtanian]

I haven't noticed any lack of creativity. [..] but don't let that fool you the way it fooled the American automotive industry I agree with you that any alleged Japanese "lack of creativity" is a myth that should be thoroughly discredited by now; they were coming up with games like Space Invaders and Pac-Man almost 30 years ago.

However, if the situation in the US is remotely like that in the UK, I doubt that it was this "creativity" that let them take over the car industry. While they may have released some interesting cars over the years, the ones that brought them success in the UK were hardly radical or interesting.

No, let me rephrase that; they *were* radical in that (unlike most British cars of the 1970s) they included nice stuff like car radios as standard, were good value for money, and most notably were reliable. (Okay, so the early ones rusted badly in the UK climate, but so did a lot of cars at that time, and they seemed to get round that quite quickly).

But interesting in terms of design and appearance mass-market Japanese cars of the 1970s-1990s certainly weren't. In fact, I daresay that it's many of those cars that gave them a reliable-but-unimaginative reputation.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[_KiTA_]

There are several hundreds of anime series and even if 'most' are boring (and I agree with that), that still leaves dozens of interesting and original ones! Just like sitcoms? 100 shitty ones, 1 Seinfeld.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Anonymous Coward]

He wasn't saying that Japanese people aren't creative. He was saying that lack of creativity is a stereotype associated with the Japanese, which is true. I could say that Barrack Obama shatters the stereotype that all blacks are watermelon thieves who stab their wives, and I wouldn't be saying that all blacks are watermelon thieves who stab their wives. Just that this is what the typical uninformed idiot seems to think.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are my mod points when I need them? If anything ever deserved a +6 insightful, interesting and funny all at the same time this is it ;)

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, even an AC can't let that pass. If there's a stereotype about Japanese not being creative, it must have gotten around to only you. The rest of us are standing in *awe* of Japan's history of creativeness.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean 101 shitty ones, and one Arrested Developmet.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[deathy_epl ccs]

100 shitty ones, 1 Seinfeld.

Must be why I don't like any sitcoms, with what's considered one of the good ones.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Warll]

or the anime world...

No kidding! Americans never known what hit them, one year their anime industry was chugging just fine and next thing you know the Japanese practically own the industry world wide!

Re:Japanese not creative?

[ACDChook]

100 shitty ones, 1 Seinfeld. So 100 bad, and 1 truly atrocious?

Re:Japanese not creative?

[SirLurksAlot]

Once you get over the novelty of the cultural difference most anime tends to be even less creative than your average sitcom.

I agree with this to an extent. There are definitely patterns that show up frequently in anime. Shy young man that ends up with a harem of hotties hanging all over him. One guy with "an unbreakable will" saves everyone against all odds. The current trend of "Shinigami" type anime. The patterns are easy to spot after you've seen them a few times, and they can get tiresome after a while. You can tell that anime producers definitely have their version of the golden equation for entertainment.

That being said, when you compare anime to American animation there really is a huge difference in creativity. There are a variety of genres, character archetypes, settings and themes that simply don't exist in American animation. Seriously, how many romantic comedies, horror shows, or cyber-thrillers have you seen in American animation? How many times has a villain in American animation turned out to be someone you could sympathize with? I think (and this is just speculation on my part as I've never been there) this is because animation there is viewed as a legitimate medium for storytelling. It seems as though American animation is restricted to children's shows (Disney, Warner Bros, Hanna Barbara) and fart jokes (I'm looking at you Cartoon Network!), with obvious exceptions (The Simpsons, Family Guy, and any of the DC cartoons all come to mind). It's difficult to see American animation producing anything as creative as what is currently being shown in Japan because of this "Oh it's animated so it must be for kids" mentality that so many people have here.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[newsdee]

The "golden equation" actually comes from anime's source material, manga. There is an excellent book (comic/manga) called "Even a monkey can draw manga", which, under covers of parody, dissects most of the common stereotypes of manga (and thus anime). It points out that depending on the intended audience age you'll very often find the same elements because to be successful, you just need to copy other successful stuff (thus the title). The book itself is a manga, so interestingly it proves that the medium is not at fault, just the commercialism of it. There are certainly some works that are less marketable, but a very interesting or original read (same as comics and any other medium, really).

Re:Japanese not creative?

[kklein]

My old officemate from Singapore, who only lived here (Japan) 3 years as opposed to my 7, figured it out, I think.

Historically, Japan has had a highly connected, functioning, modern economy for much longer than most places. Even though they were technologically backward when the West came chugging in, socially, they may have been better developed. This might explain why they were able to retool and thrive even as the world political landscape changed in the late 1800s. It was a matter of acquiring new physical tools, not new values (there were some radical changes in values as well--but not to the extent that, say, Papua New Guinea faces).

Because of this, part of the culture is an understanding that you are just a cog in a machine. The downside to that is that I find that people are generally incompetent, by my standards. BUT, get them in their field, and they are often stunning. They know absolutely everything about it, and it consumes their mental life. I mean, if they care. The mean is just kinda plodding along, same as anywhere.

So, whereas we conceptualize creativity as a trait which will manifest itself everywhere, it may be that the Japanese simply focus on one single thing. This would explain a lot, like how a nation where seemingly no one knows how an internal combustion engine works, even conceptually, can be the unchallenged master of the world automotive industry...

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Metasquares]

It's also completely unsustainable. At some point, the world's new producers will realize that they can do this stuff themselves, and then the rug is going to be yanked out from under us faster than you can say "star goat".

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Winckle]

There are several hundreds of different sitcom series and even if 'most' are boring (and I agree with that), that still leaves dozens of interesting and original ones!

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Awptimus Prime]

Nothing about modern economics is completely sustainable. Change, often rapid, is a part of our global reality. I think what the previous poster was getting to has more to do with the governments over there seeing what's going on here and not wanting any part of it.

When you have a certain population, the needs change from "how do I do this with less people?" to "how do I keep these billions of people busy and fed?"

Re:Japanese not creative?

[crenshawsgc]

It has killed our manufacturing base

The USA had the world's largest industrial output, actually, as you can see in this article published by the http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=35402 United Nations "Currently, the largest share of world industrial output is held by the United States (23.3 percent), followed by Japan (18.2 percent) and Germany (7.4 percent). China ranks fourth with 6.9 percent." I don't call that "dead."

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Anonymous Coward]

>they were coming up with games like Space Invaders and Pac-Man almost 30 years ago.
r
By copying Space Wars, Defender, and the like, yes.

The Japanese hardly had a monopoly on arcade masterpieces. Unless, that is, you're a typical Nintendo fanboy who doesn't realize that companies like Atari or Midway even existed, or that video games existed before Donkey Kong.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[fermion]

I don't think it is every useful to presume abilities based on race. For instance, American laboratories are full of scientists of every ethnicity doing creative work, and American shops are full of americans that have never had a creative thought. It depends on the person.

What is clear that many countries, particularly in Asia, are really good at teaching children to pass tests, while other countries, such as the US, tended to have a much less goal oriented, less standardized, curriculum which could be argued to foster creativity. A reasonable intelligent and creative person could get through the social hazing project we called school, perhaps get through college, and then get on with the American past time or creating wealth. of course this left some people without an education, which is why we are now obsessed with tests. Make sure that every students is educated to same remedial level, just like the rest of the world. And before commenting on who smart the immigrants you meet on the street are, remember that those are the best of the best.

In any case, the issue with american car makers is not one of intelligence or creativity, but one of arrogance. It was basically assumed that chauvinism would prevail and that people, in a free market that uses competition to fuel innovation no less, choose an inferior more expensive product. The arrogance cost the automakers thier bussinesses, and the American Taxpayers untold millions in a bailout.

The sad thing is that much of what the japanese did, at least to some degree, was to apply US technology. The US auto manufacturers would not invest in applying the technology. The US manufacturers would not plan for the rainy day. They felt the US government would take care of them with protectionist measures and bailouts, just like now. Back in 2000 it was written that oil prices were going to plummet due to oversupply, even though growth in India and Japan made it clear that the competition for the commodity was at best going to keep prices stable, and more than likely cause modest growth. So they continued to count on legislative loopholes and other sweetheart deals and continued to produce cars that now has us with only two, and perhaps one, viable auto maker.

Which is to nothing is simple. In the US we turn out all sorts of people, many who are innovative and creative. If one limits the sample to college prep school, we produce test takers to rival anyone in the world. We are a vibrant enough country with the best integration skills so we can attract the best talent. Which is good, because after about the third generation, it seems taht the ability of an US person to be innovative in the marketplace sags. Which is why our car industry is kaput. The hungry bugger nipping at our toes simply has more to gain, so works harder to get it. Most of us eat and have a reasonable place to stay no matter how lazy we are.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[thomas.galvin]

It has killed our manufacturing base and is eating into programming and hands-on tech jobs, but also gives us lots of shinny cheap trinkets and fat cars. Along with a ballooning trade deficit, crushing debt, an economy based more on illusion than real, tangible goods...

Re:Japanese not creative?

[homejapan]

It's pathetic that anyone would hold to such dumb stereotypes any more.

It's sad that a reporter can't write about the great works of a creative, talented man, without a bunch of doofuses latching onto his nationality (of all trivial, meaningless things) and obsessing over its imagined importance. There's a whole thread on this forming below, with people tossing anecdotes back and forth (as if that ever meant anything).

I welcome the day when everyone understands the simple truth that things like video games are made by *people* and *organizations*, not giant nation-states. In this discussion of Mr Miyamoto and his work, nationality is absolutely, utterly irrelevant.

Poster above: I don't see you as holding that "Japanese creative" stereotype, so the above comment isn't directed at you. The next one *is*:

Contrary to what you suggest, "we" do not "associate... creativity" in any given way. Whatever that "we" is supposed to mean - "Westerners" or whatever - a "we" doesn't exist. There is no culturo-socio-national consensus on how "we" "associate creativity".

Sheesh. Can we - meaning all humankind - drop this rubbish already?

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll have several shots containing different information, then mention the combination of information later without spoon-feeding it to the viewer.

except for fuckin naruto

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Anonymous Coward]

There are many MANY anime series that are hopelessly derivative. You can't just count the most popular ones. But of course, American television is at least as bad as that.

Really, it's hard to make a blanket statement about the originality of the citizens of some nation, especially because, being just that, a different culture, many things about them seem strange and unique to us. On the other hand, many of our impressions of them are formed mostly by viewing their popular media, which is a horrible way to judge an entire culture. The success of given industries is also a terrible way to judge: the success of given industries, since they are often guarded by gatekeepers who have other interests at heart than unbridled creation. So yeah, it's hard to say.

If forced, I'd say, as a hopelessly ill-informed opinion, that on the average the Japanese are likely very slightly original than Americans due to the uniformity and conformity of their society. But this has not harmed the explosion of interest in Japanese popular culture around the world.

And it's easy to see right now that Americans can be just as conformist as anyone else.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[zippthorne]

How can china have only 7% of the world output when I can barely even find things that don't say "Made in China" any more?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just wondering how the real numbers can be so very off from my (and many others') practical experience.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[zippthorne]

In order for Barrack Obama to shatter that stereotype, it would have to be true that the stereotype wasn't already shattered by pretty much every other black there is just going about their daily lives.

However, it is evident that if it were possible for Barrack to shatter that stereotype, conditions would have to be such that the stereotype had the unfortunate circumstance of also being true.

So it's actually a pretty condescending thing to say about blacks that they would need some public figure to "dispel" a stereotype.

I'm not sure what stereotypes Obama would be capable of dispelling. Perhaps ones involving black democratic politicians who are aloof enough for a stereotype to form without sufficient direct experience to contradict it. But is Obama aloof?

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Tablizer]

I think part of the issue here is what is being measured. The US tends to focus on "nichey" pricey items that have a higher profit margin. Thus, as measured in dollars, the US may indeed rank high. But our trade deficit is real and large regardless, risking bubbles and other financial meyham.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Tablizer]

Along with a ballooning trade deficit, crushing debt, an economy based more on illusion than real, tangible goods...

I do agree that our approach is more "leveraged". Higher-paying investments tend to be the riskiest ones also, meaning lots of up-and-down bubbles for both our economy and individual careers here in the USA.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[wanderingknight]

Well, of course... 90% of everything will always be crap. However, right now we're having a new golden age of Japanese animation, with numbers nearing 40 new series each April and October (plus a lot of midseason series), which leaves room for some truly great series in every sense of the word. Kure-nai, for example, a series that just started airing in April, has the most original work of scriptwriting and dialog I've ever seen in an anime.

Of course that if you look at stereotypical genres, such as action/adventure/shounen and comedy/romance/ecchi you will always end up with very similar and formulaic series... but you have to look a bit deeper to find the gold lying at the bottom of the river.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[wanderingknight]

The difference between Japanese and Western RPGs is one of concept.

When the Japanese first learned about RPGs, they saw it associated mainly with roguelike games, due to a lack of proper tabletop RPGs exposure. What they only took about that was the fact that you're a guy inside a dungeon looting treasure and killing monsters... Which was exactly what the American idealization of what an RPG was tried to avoid. The Japanese built on that concept and completely strayed away from what an RPG truly means. That, coupled with their Engrish tendence to adapt Western words and give them completely different meanings gave birth to the genre of the jRPG.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Haoie]

That's how you get completely off the wall games like Katamari, Bishi Bashi, ICO [well that's more artistic than bizarre], and a whole host of others.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Bloke down the pub]

They copied the Pearl Harbor attack from the British, who gave Johnny Eyetie a good kick up the arse at Taranto.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Dogtanian]

I don't think it is every useful to presume abilities based on race. I was not "presuming abilities based on race"; that's something you read into it.

If I presumed anything (and I would argue that what I said was reflecting and to some extent arguing *against* others' views anyway), it was on the basis of national *culture*, not race.

And yes, that's a generalisation of people in all societies to some extent, but it does exist, and it does have an effect on the large scale of things.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Dogtanian]

they were coming up with games like Space Invaders and Pac-Man almost 30 years ago. By copying Space Wars, Defender, and the like, yes. Space Wars was certainly *not* the same as Space Invaders; beyond being set in space and involving shooting, the gameplay design was quite different.
Defender came out two years after Space Invaders.
And I don't see how either of your examples influenced Pac Man.

The Japanese hardly had a monopoly on arcade masterpieces. I didn't say or imply anything remotely like that.

What I *did* give were examples that demonstrated that the Japanese were just as capable of coming up with inventive arcade game ideas as the Americans.

Unless, that is, you're a typical Nintendo fanboy who doesn't realize that companies like Atari or Midway even existed, or that video games existed before Donkey Kong. Stupid (and incorrect) kneejerk assumption and ad hominem attack.

I could point out that I've owned an 8-bit Atari computer for over 20 years, or that the first Nintendo hardware I owned was a DS I bought in 2006- and that was only because I liked the change from the usual PS2-style games. Prior to that I had a hard-to-pin-down gut dislike of Nintendo that probably came down to the pseudo-Disney child-oriented vibe of their stuff (particularly Mario and friends- think the worst aspects of Disney and Barney the Dinosaur combined). Even now, my distaste for this aspect of Nintendo is such that I'd avoid buying anything that featured the Mario character- even for a game I'd otherwise like, such as Tetris DS.

So yeah.... obviously I'm a Nintendo-loving fanboy who knows nothing about Atari...... *cough*Fuckwit!*cough*!

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Dorkmaster Flek]

Just like sitcoms? 100 shitty ones, 1 Arrested Development. There, fixed that for you. :)

Re:Japanese not creative?

[nomadic]

In any case, the issue with american car makers is not one of intelligence or creativity, but one of arrogance. It was basically assumed that chauvinism would prevail and that people, in a free market that uses competition to fuel innovation no less, choose an inferior more expensive product

Interestingly, Japan is one of the few countries where chauvinism does prevail, and people will choose inferior and/or more expensive products because they were made in Japan.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[JebusIsLord]

Before that: News Radio. Otherwise they're all shit.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[crenshawsgc]

What it boils down to is that China makes the cheap crap that you buy for 50 cents. America makes the machines that make the 50 cent crap which sell for millions.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[menace3society]

The Japanese were very creative, from the standpoint of indstrial operations. They brought us things like just-in-time inventory, matrix organization of management, strong branding, team-building exercises, the use of dynamic small teams to work on problems, and a slew of other practices from the 1920s to the 1970s that have proven to be wildly successful in every instance where they were adopted.

The cars looked unimaginative, but the proof was in the pudding: people preferred the cheap, efficient, and reliable cars to the imaginative ones. People loved to talk about how great Chevy convertibles, VW beetles, BMWs, etc etc looked, but in the end they all bought Toyotas and Hondas.

Re:Japanese not creative?

[Deadstick]

They copied the whole bloody Royal Navy, added a few things, and creamed the original in the Pacific.

rj

Too creative to be "super-rich"?

[Izabael_DaJinn]

"With a net worth of around $8 billion, Nintendo's former chairman, Hiroshi Yamauchi, is now the richest man in Japan, according to Forbes magazine. (Nintendo does not disclose Mr. Miyamoto's compensation, but it appears that he has not joined the ranks of the superrich.)"

That darn Yamauchi took all Miyamoto's money to the top of a steel girded ramp and started throwing barrels down at Miyamoto!

Re:Too creative to be "super-rich"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yamauchi was also brilliant in his own way. Without his steering of the company over decades Miyamoto probably wouldn't be where he is today. Isn't Yamauchi the guy who had the balls to hire Miyamoto, despite the guy having no practical coding or game design experience? I could be getting my Nintendo history wrong on that one...

Re:Too creative to be "super-rich"?

[Anonymous Coward]

I seem to remember watching a documentary in which it was stated that Mr. Miyamoto has refused to take a salary higher than the average employee.

I'm quite sure Mr. Miyamoto is not concerned with physical rewards.

If that is the case...

[vertinox]

Does that mean we will have a Nintendo-land theme park in Florida anytime soon?

Re:If that is the case...

[pedantic bore]

That would be awesome.

Re:If that is the case...

[spleen_blender]

Seconded! We need to petition Nintendo to start a Nintendoland!

Re:If that is the case...

[iminplaya]

Yeah, right... Let's see if you can get out of the place without being hammered to death.

- Rides not operating today:
        - Head Basher
        - Blood Bath
        - Mangler
        - Nurse's Station

Re:If that is the case...

[morari]

Let us hope against hope that it wouldn't actually be in Florida. Why anyone wants to visit that hot, sticky, humid, wasteland of a peninsula is beyond me. Then add to the fact that the only people actually around are retirees and tourists and you have all the trappings of a hellhole.

Re:If that is the case...

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a question, which would be a better theme park. Miyamoto's or Miyazaki's? I'm not knocking Miyamoto's contributions, but let's not get ahead of ourselves, there is a better Japanese storyteller, one that interestingly the Disney Corporation identifies with.

Re:If that is the case...

[Anonymous Coward]

There is one already. It's called the Wii.

Re:If that is the case...

[KDR_11k]

There's not just one better storyteller, there's a whole wagonload. Miyamoto is a game designer, not a writer. The stories in his games are average at best and usually worse (Sorry Mario but our princess is in another castle).

The "Wii Fit"? YGBK!

[5pp000]

There's really something called the "Wii Fit"?? I don't know if Nintendo execs are Honda fans, or if they just want parents to be able to say to each other, when their rugrat is throwing a temper tantrum cuz they took away the game console, "Oh, he's just having a Wii Fit".

Sold out

[AtariKee]

"and now to Wii Fit â" which according to some initial rumors is selling out across the globe in its debut"

So now it can join the Wii in the vaunted ranks of "perpetually sold out" :)

What the hell. I've got karma to burn :)

Re:Sold out

[Anonymous Coward]

"What the hell. I've got karma to burn :)"

It's lines like that that nearly always result in upmods.

Re:Sold out

[AtariKee]

Not in this case, obviously :)

Re:Sold out

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank God.

The decay of time

[DNS-and-BIND]

The difference is that in 50 years, people will still watch Walt Disney films. They won't experience anything by this guy, whatever his name is, because his creations will be considered primitive and un-fun by then. Ever tried to watch silent films? Yes I know they're an art form blah blah and I'm an uneducated country bumpkin philistine and they're far superior to anything that Jean-Claude Van Damme appears in, but jeez I've tried and most of them are just unwatchable. Likewise with this guy's video games...try playing something from 10 years ago, not even talking about the graphics, the user interfaces are unusable. Believe me, I've tried, it just plain doesn't work.

Re:The decay of time

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually I find many of the old Disney films not very appealing, either. The newer ones are alright, but stuff like Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast etc. are awful in my opinion.

Re:The decay of time

[jjiimmyyt]

I used to watch Harold Lloyd stuff on the BBC all the time, also Chaplin is still respected. We also keep reading Shakespear. Good stuff is good stuff, just over the years we tend to only appreciate the best of the best from times past. We are talking about classics. I think this includes said games.

Re:The decay of time

[dingen]

You've got to be kidding me. The interfaces of Donkey Kong, Super Mario Bros and The Legend Of Zelda don't work? Well, these guys disagree and so do I. I doubt that you actually tried playing these games recently, because I really don't understand what problems you could be having. Screen and controller are basically the same as in present games. I play lots of games that are 10 years or older on a regular basis and the stuff created by Shigeru Miyamoto stands the test of time without a doubt. The fact that the graphics and sounds are outdated doesn't mean the games are not a lot of fun to play.

Re:The decay of time

[Krakhan]

I don't see how this post is 'interesting' at all. Most of the stuff by Nintendo under Miyamoto's direction that came out at least over 10 years ago, including Super Mario World, Super Metroid (to a lesser extent), Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past and are still some of the best games that have been released so far, and are still played to this day, and these games are about 13-17 years old. Seriously, if you think the controls for this game are unusable, I'm questioning whether you've even played many games to begin with.

Re:The decay of time

[superslacker87]

Beauty and the Beast? What do you define as an "old Disney film"? That one came out in 1991.

Re:The decay of time

[KDR_11k]

Miyamoto's games are unusually advanced for their time, the SMB games introduced air control to jump & runs and as a result play pretty much the same as modern games in the genre. Zelda 1 already had many of the elements the series would get although it had weaknesses (e.g. hard or impossible to find secrets, lots of repetition in the level design). While their contemporaries may fail due to horrible controls or game mechanics the Miyamoto games tend to hold up and still work almost as well as they did when they were first released. Hell, some had modern releases with very few changes and still got reviewed highly.

I think a difference between silent movies and videogames is that videogames were always designed for the masses and simple entertainment, especially the popular early ones are very accessible (who can't figure out how to play Pac-Man or Tetris?). While the average person will be hard pressed to find the "true meaning" of older art games were simply not made as art back then, you just grab a joystick and splode stuff up.

Well, okay, I'm talking about things that are 20 years old, not ten, I guess the N64 isn't as easy on the user as the NES and SNES. But would you really say that games like Super Mario World are no longer playable?

Re:The decay of time

[Sorcha Payne]

Are you kidding me? There are tonnes of people who still play the games that Miyamoto created 10 or more years ago. There is a reason why Ocarina of Time tops many best of video game lists long after it was released. Hell, this is one of the reason why the Wii's VC is successful.

By the way, what you say about Nintendo video games from the past, I can say about Disney creations. I find most of them boring and unwatchable. However, I am not under the delusion that there arent many people who do watch them, and enjoy them.

Re:The decay of time

[dingen]

I guess the N64 isn't as easy on the user as the NES and SNES. While this is true to some extend, Miyamoto always makes sure the learning curve isn't too steep for anyone. Zelda: Ocarina Of Time for example (a game that was supposed to be released at the same time the N64 was introduced, but was delayed and improved for 2 years by mr Miyamoto until he felt it was good enough) starts off with a village that is designed as a practice zone where you can get to know the controls and interface. If you are an experienced player you can get to the action right away, but if you don't there's easily half an hour of gameplay there for you to explore and learn the game. Whatever your initial level, by the time you've spent a few hours with it, you'll be attacking monsters, solving puzzles and finding secrets like it's second nature to you.

It's absolutely ridiculous to state that old games are harder to understand or play than newer ones, especially the high quality works of Shigeru Miyamoto.

Re:The decay of time

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, convinced. Seems like I had that movie in much worse memory than it actually was. I still don't like "magical musical" movies, but that's just my personal opinion.

Re:The decay of time

[anyGould]

I'm the opposite - I prefer most of the older Disney flicks to the recent ones. Aristocats, Lady and the Tramp, Jungle Book, Fantasia... there's some fantastic animation there. The new stuff tends to be entirely too... bleh. (Emperor's New Groove, anyone?)

Re:The decay of time

[hiruhl]

Well, okay, I'm talking about things that are 20 years old, not ten, I guess the N64 isn't as easy on the user as the NES and SNES. But would you really say that games like Super Mario World are no longer playable? The games that weren't easy on the user are from SNES or earlier (mostly earlier). The games were only a few hours long (if that), if you could actually beat them. Many of them are, however, completely impossible to beat.

Starting with the N64/Playstation era, games have become much, MUCH easier, as a whole. Realistic save features, in-game tutorials, and more coherent hints at how to accomplish certain tasks make these newer games easier, to name a few reasons. Basically, a game doesn't have to be impossible anymore to give the player a decent amount of time with the game. Also, companies realized more people will be satisfied with a game when they can actually beat it.

True, some old games were not tough-as-nails difficult (especially from the SNES era, like Super Mario World, as you mentioned -- they started getting easier, already, then), but many of them were. These games have already lost their appeal, mostly. The more accessible games have not, but the younger generation of gamers are not as turned on by these games as they are newer games.

I think the original poster has a point that in 50 years people will not want to play these games. Some people will, but not the mainstream. Games will probably be similar to other media, like music and (as the OP alluded to) movies. For instance, I like music from when my parents were kids, but not much before that. There are a lot of people who are into classical music, and silent films, and old media, but these people are very niche. In 50 years, there will be people who enjoy playing Pacman, Super Mario World, and Grand Theft Auto IV, but this will not be mainstream taste among gamers.

As a side note, I will add my prediction that games like GTA IV and Guitar Hero will probably be even less recognized than Pacman or Mario games, in the distant future. The GTA series is very much a reflection of modern pop-culture, and thus, I would argue, has more of a time-stamp on it. Pong, Pacman, Space Invaders, Zelda, and Spore, for example, will age better, as the concepts behind them do not bear such a time-stamp.

This is one reason Miyamoto is reasonably heralded as such a genius. Not only is he responsible for resurrecting the industry, as well as ushering it into the mainstream, but the concepts he creates are enduring. They are not to be bogged down by ties to what is now modern and soon to be outmoded. His ideas are quite timeless, although clearly the technology that delivers them is not.

Re:The decay of time

[thetoadwarrior]

I'd say it's the opposite. Their new stuff is rubbish.

Either way there is no real innovation at Disney. Half the stuff they stole from the Japanese and the other half is just old stories retold with nice animation.

Walt was a good business man but I wouldn't say it was a man of innovation. Where as Miyamoto / Nintendo is responsible for so much innovation in gaming even if they're are just churning out Mario Party and other boring titles these days and Mario Galaxy has proven that they still have it.

Re:The decay of time

[infaustus]

Regardless of whether people play the actual games he created, the franchises will still be going strong in 50 years. Nintendo's never going to stop making Zelda and Mario games.

Re:The decay of time

[DNS-and-BIND]

In another 10 years or so, the idea of holding a controller to play a game will be viewed as ridiculous. But people will still sit on the couch and watch movies. These games are viewed as "playable" today because you grew up playing them, and still remember how to do it. Walt Disney != this game design guy.

Re:The decay of time

[Anonymous Coward]

How's that flying car coming along?

Re:The decay of time

[teh kurisu]

Likewise with this guy's video games...try playing something from 10 years ago, not even talking about the graphics, the user interfaces are unusable. Believe me, I've tried, it just plain doesn't work.

Legend Of Zelda: Ocarina Of Time was released 9 years and 6 months ago, which I think is close enough to 10 years to seriously weaken your argument. I happen to be playing through it right now, and (graphics aside) it still compares well to the best of today's games.

The key to the Zelda series is that the core gameplay elements haven't changed. Link's Awakening, OoT, Wind Waker, Minish Cap, Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass are all easily recognisable as of the same series. That Miyamoto has maintained this kind of consistency, while also maintaining such high quality and review scores, and on top of that making the transition from 2D to 3D almost seamlessly, is the best indication of how great the man is. Nobody else has managed all of the above.

Re:The decay of time

[Anonymous Coward]

It's easy to be recognisable when you just rehash the same shit over and over. It's like he has a checklist of things to include.

Little elf boy in green attire - check
Zelda overworld theme tune - check
Heart containers - check
Triforce - check
Master sword - check
Recycled enemies - check

I remember when the original Zelda came out. It was a fun game because the formula was somewhat unique. Now it's just old. People give this guy far too much credit when it's obvious to all but the most blind fanboys that he's riding the same thing over and over.

Re:The decay of time

[Anonymous Coward]

While Emperor's New Groove may not be as nicely animated, it is very well written; it parodies other cartoons and itself and is actually humorous in many ways that other cartoons are not.

I find that all of Disney's forays into 3-d animation have been insipid and terrible, to be blunt. The writing is atrocious; you don't emphasize with the characters and the jokes really aren't funny. They just seem to be cashing in on the computer animated bandwagon without understanding what makes the cartoons interesting to watch in the first place.

Re:The decay of time

[Rakarra]

I would consider Disney to have had two great "golden ages." The first was the classic Disney era: Snow White in the 30s through Sleeping Beauty, Jungle Book, etc. The second was the revitalization of Disney in the late 80s and early 90s with The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, and the Lion King. Sadly, it wasn't long at all before that Disney era faded.

It's nearly impossible to find (Disney's done a great job suppressing it), but a great documentary is The Sweatbox, shot by Sting's wife on the set of Empire of the Sun, a project which was amazingly tumultuous, eventually resulting in the removal of its director, rewrite of the script, and retooling as Emperor's New Groove. It's a little slanted towards making Sting look good, but other than that, not a bad look at the inner workings of the Mouse House.

No

[Kohath]

There are many game designers out there making good games.

Walt Disney didn't have 20 competitors who were arguably as good and as successful as he was.

Re:No

[KDR_11k]

There may be 20 successful designers but can you name even three that are on par with Miyamoto?

Re:No

[Anonymous Coward]

In terms of success or in terms of creativity? If the latter, then currently, yes, though he was unmatched twenty years ago. Though, I will go so far as to say that Super Mario Galaxy is my favorite game since the SNES/Megadrive era.

Re:No

[Pancake Bandit]

Hideo Kojima, Sid Meier, Yuji Naka, Gunpei Yokoi, Will Wright

Re:No

[Digestromath]

I can name a few successful designers, but not all of them good.

Sid Meier

Will Wright

John Carmack

John Romero

Richard Garriot

Satoshi Tajiri

Hideo Kojima

Hironobu Sakaguchi

Peter Molyneux (Who I consider the Uwe Boll of gaming)

In terms of brand power and overall sales I'd say Tajiri (Pokemon) and Sakaguchi (Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts) are perhaps on par. They aren't nearly as 'iconic' though.

Re:No

[Kohath]

Games are really a team effort.

The team at Ubisoft Montreal is outstanding. Valve. Infinity Ward. Naughty Dog does some great work. Epic.

Walt Disney Co. more-or-less owned the animated films business. Even if Miyamoto is "the best", which is highly arguable, it's still not like Walt Disney at all.

Re:No

[Kohath]

I forgot Rockstar. Sam Houser.

Re:No

[thetoadwarrior]

Epic has no right to be mentioned in the same thread as Miyamoto or Valve. They aren't really much above the likes of Acclaim.

Most of their games have been rubbish, they've admitted to UT2k3 sucking and just banking on the fact it had sweet graphics and they released Unreal in such a horrible state that a petition had to be started to get them to fix it despite the numerous promises that they would release the final patch to fix it.

Their only success has been in the fact they've perfected marketing towards teen spacktards and they don't have any decent competition in the 3D engine department. They should consider themselves lucky that Carmack has better things to do than to own Epic.

Re:No

[bigstrat2003]

Even if we accept everything you say about Epic as fact (which is still a debate unto itself), they still, for my money, make games that are light-years better than anything Valve has ever put out. Valve's only good game, ever, was Portal... which was still entirely too short, and too expensive. At least Epic put out UT2k4 and UT3. Two good games > one good game.

And that, friend, is why it's silly for us to act like we can objectively rank these companies or designers with any degree of precision. We're talking about subjective things here, not science.

Re:No

[Anonymous Coward]

Add Warren Spector, Chris Roberts, Paul Reiche III, Fred Ford, Ron Gilbert and Jordan Mechner.

Re:No

[Anonymous Coward]

It's obvious you don't know what you are talking about. Epic has put out numerous fantastic games.

ZZT is a legendary text adventure game which offered the ability to script just about anything you wanted for it.

Epic Pinball was one of the best video pinball games ever made. It had a dozen tables, realistic physics, fantastic music and good, smooth scrolling graphics.

Jazz Jackrabbit was a great platform game which I personally like more than any Mario game, though I will admit that Sonic the Hedgehog was the best of the three game series.

One Must Fall 2097 was a fun 1 vs 1 fighting game with good music (by C.C.Catch of the old demo group Renaissance) and smooth CGI character animations which were far superior to anything that the 16-bit consoles of the time could produce.

Unreal worked flawlessly when it came out. At least it did on my Voodoo 2 cards, which is what it was intended for. The software renderer was also top notch, being far better than anything else around. The AI for NPCs was unmatched during its time with enemies that actually displayed intelligence in combat. Unreal also came with probably the best editor even to this day. I still play it occasionally.

Unreal Tournament is probably the single best multiplayer first person shooter ever made. Great weapon variety, SUPERB map design (I am a map designer myself) and unmatched AI bots. Again, UT came with a map editor that allowed you to create maps and see exactly how it would look in realtime, something that its closest competitor (Quake 3 Arena) didn't have.

Unreal II was a very fun game which I found to be far better than many of the shooter out at the time. Some people unfairly criticised it when, in fact, it offered everything that a good shooter should have.

Gears of War is a good third person shooter which has won several awards. It's pretty straightforward, but it is also one of the best of the genre.

Unreal Tournament 3 is groundbreaking mostly for the technology behind it. It's not really my cup of tea, but I can respect it for what it contributed to the world of gaming.

And lets not forget about all of the indirect involvement Epic has had. Without the Unreal engines there would be no Deus Ex (probably the best game ever made), Splinter Cell, Thief : Deadly Shadows or Bioshock, amongst many others.

John Carmack has praised Unreal. There is a good story behind the Unreal engine here.

As for Valve, you've got to be kidding. They haven't made shit that was good. Half Life was crap, Half Life 2 was mediocre, Team Fortress wasn't even made by them and Portal was entertaining for about an hour.

Re:No

[westlake]

Walt Disney didn't have 20 competitors who were arguably as good and as successful as he was.

MGM had Hanna and Barbera, Tex Avery. Warner, Chuck Jones and the other denizens of Termite Terrace. Paramount, Max Fleischer.

The difference is that Disney was willing to take animation into feature production. He was willing to invest in the talent, training and technology that would make that possible.

Re:No

[maglor_83]

Peter Molyneux (Who I consider the Uwe Boll of gaming) So would a Uwe Boll movie of a Molyneux game be any good?

Re:No

[Xuranova]

Mr. Romero's greatest work had to have been Daikatana.

*takes cover*

Re:No

[thetoadwarrior]

UT2k4 was purely an update to UT2k3 because UT2k3 was so shit. Try searching for CliffyB's comments on UT2k3 while UT2k4 was in development.

Stats put UT2k4 and Q3 in the same league. The reason being is because they're used for tourneys. Otherwise I doubt anyone would play either as much.

In fact if it wasn't for tourneys UT2k4 would probably have a player count like UT3 which has less than 500 players at the moment. For a multiplayer game that's bad. It's being beat by Vietcong and the ancient Halo Demo. So please don't embarrass yourself and try to claim Epic can make better games than Valve. If they could make games they wouldn't have to shill their engine.

Re:No

[bigstrat2003]

If they could make games they wouldn't have to shill their engine. That's just laughable. Making good games, and selling your engine, are completely unrelated.

So please don't embarrass yourself and try to claim Epic can make better games than Valve. Pretty much anyone makes better games than Valve, it's not a big claim.

Re:No

[KDR_11k]

Meier and Wright are equal (or at least close) IMO but Kojima, Naka and Yokoi are not. Kojima is more of a writer than a game designer and certainly not as influential as Miyamoto, Naka has a fairly spotty record especially with Sonic games getting worse and even Nights falling flat and Yokoi had ideas but was not as good in the implementation, Kid Icarus and Metroid 1 haven't stood the test of time nearly as well as, say, Super Mario Bros. You have to consider that Miyamoto pretty much created some genres (or at least drastically changed them into what is their current form) and has a large number of games while being fairly consistent about quality.

Re:No

[thetoadwarrior]

Some people think Hitler was right but that doesn't mean they're not completely wrong. You fit in that category.

Re:No

[Anonymous Coward]

Godwin's law. You lose.

Re:No

[Rakarra]

There were a number of areas that Disney excelled at that don't always come to mind when thinking of animated movies. Sure, he was quite creative and loved to mess around with technical innovations ("Fantasound" in 1940 was the precursor to today's surroundsound), but he was also an incredible showman, knowing just how to present work to potential investors, potential actors, anyone he needed to. Despite the grand illustrious history of Disney, money was often quite tight, and Walt was better than anyone at getting sponsorships. It's how he managed to build the dreams he had.

Maybe not the best comparison

[moosesocks]

If I recall correctly, Disney wasn't particularly well-liked by his employees or colleagues.

A creative force to be reckoned with, to be sure. However, not a terribly ethical individual on the other hand.

I can easily see how the analogy works, though I'm not quite sure I'd like to be compared to Walt Disney....

Re:Maybe not the best comparison

[bomanbot]

Good point about that not being the best comparison, especially since Miyamoto always gets described as very humble and friendly and is well-respected by his peers.

IIRC, Sid Meier (of Civilization fame) even said that Miyamoto is sort of a role model for him, which I think is high praise.

Re:Maybe not the best comparison

[mqduck]

Walt Disney, the gentle genius behind Mickey Mouse and Disneyland, loved and cared about almost all the peoples of the world. And he, in turn, was beloved by the world... except in 1938, when he was criticized for his controversial cartoon "Nazi Supermen Are Our Superiors".

Re:Maybe not the best comparison

[moosesocks]

You bring up something I'd forgotten completely.

During WWII, Disney was commissioned to create a number of short films to aid/promote the war effort, along with several PSAs and the like.

A while back, a friend and I watched through a DVD of these shorts, and they were absolutely fascinating. While several of them would prove to be quite iconic, some were astonishingly offensive. I give enormous kudos to Disney for having the balls to have provided an essentially uncensored glimpse into the past. (I'm told that there are a number of pieces that didn't make the cut that would be extremely offensive to modern audiences)

I believe that this is the one we watched.

At the bequest of the US Government, Disney also produced a number of "educational" films to be sent to South America in order to help them build their economies into utopic democracies, and counteract any Nazi/Communist influences that were taking hold there. These were also fairly offensive against their target audience!

If you want a great view into the not-so-distant past of American history, I'd highly recommend watching these, especially given the great deal of historical relativism that seems to be going on these days concerning that era.

None of that stuff would fly today, showing just how difficult and risky it is to draw parallels between the present, and situations that occurred 50 years ago.

Re:Maybe not the best comparison

[FirstTimeCaller]

If I recall correctly, Disney wasn't particularly well-liked by his employees or colleagues. A creative force to be reckoned with, to be sure. However, not a terribly ethical individual on the other hand.

Oh, he was a demanding SOB, no doubt about that. But to call him unethical... I don't recall any actions that would warrant that label.

Re:Maybe not the best comparison

[Rolman]

I actually find this comparison offensive. Walt Disney had many interesting projects, but he could never hold a candle to Miyamoto's genius. Nintendo has almost always created their own stuff from scratch and most of it is Shigeru's. Some very rare cases involve other creators bringing original stuff to Nintendo (Pokemon comes to mind).

In contrast, most of the stories depicted in Disney movies were created by someone else. Miyamoto usually doesn't take something from the public domain to try to re-convert it to intellectual property. He also designs hardware and makes experimental stuff all the time. And everything he does is about fun as the top priority, well above money and fame (two things he certainly doesn't need more of).

Instead, Walt Disney would have had to go a very long way for the honor of being called "The Shigeru Miyamoto of His Time".

Re:Maybe not the best comparison

[twosmokes]

You are joking, right?

He was the first to create animation with sound.
He invented the long-form animation genre.
He invented the modern theme park.
Ignoring the many films based on older public domain stories, his studio created more characters than Miyamoto would ever dream of.

And really, how much thoughtfulness does it take to invent a "save the princess" game? Twice?

Miyamoto has done some great things, but really, he and Disney aren't even in the same league.

Miyamoto has rehashed the same few franchises over and over again. With nothing added but improved control schemes or graphics. While Disney may have put Mickey Mouse in hundreds of cartoons, at least his studios had to come up with a new story for each one.

Mickey Mouse is arguably the most iconic figure of the 20th century.

In my opinion without Disney, there wouldn't be a Miyamoto.

Why not

[fan of lem]

Hayao Miyazaki?

Re:Why not

[story645]

Miyazaki has been compared to Disney plenty of times, but his audience is still primarily limited to anime fans (who even then tend to know only his most popular works). Even his biggest American releases (Howl's Moving Castle, Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke) don't have the appeal or audience base that anything put out by Nintendo has, nor has his worked influenced western culture the way Disney or Nintendo has.

Re:Why not

[SirLurksAlot]

This was my first reaction as well. I guess I don't get the comparison of Miyamoto to Disney, I mean one guy made feature length animation films and the other made video games for crying out loud! If anyone deserves a comparison to Disney it's Miyazaki for his ability to visually tell a story.

Re:Why not

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

Because narrow minded game nerds think a plumber and a mushroom is more moving than the breathtaking works of art created by Hayao Miyazaki.

Sad isnt it?

Time to educate them.

Re:Why not

[Anonymous Coward]

You may want to rephrase that to "his American audience" (I'd even accept "international"). Otherwise you're going to have to explain to me why all the little kids I saw at the Ghibli Museum count as "anime fans".

Re:Why not

[fireboy1919]

Miyazaki isn't exactly a pioneer in his field. His animation techniques are actually *more primitive* than the animation going on at Disney animation studios right now. Disney is also known for being the first guy to take serious, or famous people and cast them as cartoon stars. Miyazaki does that...by being employed by Disney.

Additionally, Disney built a theme park full of *ideas* that were basically brainstorms of how the world could be, and built them into theme parks. He reinvented how we think about cartoons, and about theme parks - he upped the standard for both *a lot*.

The "plumber and mushroom" inventor also reinvented his area. He took a company that made pinball machines and playing cards and made it into the most popular video game company in the world - beating out quite a lot of competition, and making games that were *significantly* more complex (and fun) than the competition (Had an atari, had intellivision. *yawn*). He also seriously advanced the idea that the game should not be hard because it's hard to control the character. Sounds obvious, I know, but it wasn't. It was revolutionary, and made the whole industry start producing games that were a lot more fun.

The only reason I can think that you think Miyazaki is so much better is that you value movies more than you value video games. Well, that's your choice, but doesn't change the facts.

Miyazaki didn't change the world. Disney did, and so did Shigeru Miyamoto.

Re:Why not

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

I've worked in 3d character animation for 11 years, I'm well aware of Walt, and his "9 old men" that created what we now know as cell animation. Its true that Miyazaki hasnt contributed on the technical level, but where Disney left off, Miyazaki continued. Again not on a technical level, but on a story and experience level. You could easily say that Disney for a while now has had a different kind of mission than when Walt was alive. Disney's films since Walts death, lack a lot of the heart and soul found in Miyazaki's work.

Basically while we in America after Walt's death, treated animation as a shallow form childrens entertainment, Miyazaki moved forward, continueing the same awe inspiring ideals as walt, but in my opinion, Miyazaki created far more entertaining films, more thoughtfulness, more use of symbolism... in other words, more adult. His works are equally as enjoyable on a childs level as an adults due to the depth and symbolism used in his films. He doesnt belittle the viewer. Which is something we've done for years here in America with animation. Even Walt is guilty of it. While i think some of Walts films were breath taking and thoughtful, I think Miyazaki's works, and Studio Ghibli's works are more intelligent and contain more depth. There is an elegance to his work.

Again, we stopped doing that in America. Disney the corporation had stopped doing that. After Walt's death Disney made product, and Miyazaki made art.

Which is why i think he relates more to Walt than Miyamoto. Miyamoto's work does not truely move you emotionally. He has designed games with very little regard for story. Thats not to say his work isnt a veyr fine contribution to the art of gaming. Everyone knows he has made his mark in the industry. So has Hideo Kojima, and Fumito Ueda. Fumito Ueda (ICO creator) has been often called the Miyazaki of gaming, because his games move you emotionally.

Miyamoto's work is very much plumbers and mushrooms, or little pikmin in his garden... They are all great games... well some of them were bad... but I think the one big thing from keeping Miyamoto from being Walt, is that he lacks the heart that Walt had. Ultimately Walt wanted to tell stories... Animation was simply the technology he and his team developed. The technology is worthless without heart and soul.

This is where i think Miyamoto has failed, but his contributions are immense. I wont deny that.

Btw Miyazaki did create a sort of theme park. He created a Studio Ghibli Museum/park where you can go and see short films and other things releated to the studios work. Ghibli is an animation studio above all else. Miyazaki has continued Walt's vision of animation, and has taken it to levels that worthy of Walts legacy.

Your point about changing the world definiately applies to Miyamoto, but I wouldnt dare say Miyazaki hasnt changed the world. He has in my field. I dont know of an animator not moved by his work, and most are inspired to be even a fraction of what he has become. Even John Lasseter is influnced by Miyasaki's work. You dont impress someone like John Lassetter easily... who has himself pioneered and changed the world of Animation.

I think your statement about changing the world is some what true if you talk about the numbers of people influenced. More people know of Mario, but have no clue who Miyamoto is. They know the brand's he created... but unlike Disney, everyone knows who Walt is. That doesnt change the fact, i thought it was interesting. But in my circle of the world, animators and true animation fans... Miyazaki has changed many people's minds as to what animation can be, or should be more like.

Miyamoto is a legend in his own right... but i tend to think on the levels of animation and story, when trying to define the next Walt Disney...

Some might say thats John Lassetter... Even i would :)

Re:Why not

[story645]

You may want to rephrase that to "his American audience" (I'd even accept "international") Honestly I should rephrase altogether 'cause there are plenty of American film buffs who love his stuff who won't go near other anime (and I figure it's not so different worldwide.) I made the mistake of writing my entire comment in reference to American's 'cause when I think Disney, I think primarily of his influence on American media.

(Though technically Miyazaki's stuff is anime, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the kid's who like his stuff do like other animes.)

Re:Why not

[FelixGordon]

Think more in terms of: cultural impact.

After checking out the wiki link in the GPP, I realise I've seen two of that guy's films, but I can't say I would necessarily automatically recognise the characters in the same way I've been culturally programmed to recognise Mickey Mouse's silhouette or the sound of Mario collecting a coin.

Re:Why not

[Khaed]

I get the feeling it's how well known his characters are. I imagine far, far more people know who Mario is than any one of Miyazaki's characters.

Re:Why not

[Das Modell]

Miyazaki isn't exactly a pioneer in his field. His animation techniques are actually *more primitive* than the animation going on at Disney animation studios right now.

I have frequently heard that the guys at Disney revere him as a demi-god in the field of animation. I don't know what you mean by primitive though.

Disney is also known for being the first guy to take serious, or famous people and cast them as cartoon stars. Miyazaki does that...by being employed by Disney.

He is not employed by Disney. Disney has merely distributed some of his films in the US, and handled their English dubbing (at least in the case of Howl's Moving Castle). Also, what does it matter that a voice actor is famous? Miyazaki's films have excellent voice acting, and that's all that matters.

Re:Why not

[Fatalis]

indeed, this was exactly my first though. Disney was a filmmaker, and Miyazaki is a filmmaker, and a legend. Miyamoto, on the other hand, makes video games. very different areas of occupation those

Re:Why not

[Fatalis]

even if Disney was a pioneer, the fields are still very different. it just doesn't make sense to proclaim someone who doesn't make films a successor to a famous filmmaker. Miyazaki, on the other hand, fits the bill perfectly. I've even heard on some commentary tracks and elsewhere that Disney is very much influenced by Miyazaki's works. I don't watch too many Disney movies myself, so I can't verify it, but I think it's a one way street. at least from seeing Miyazaki's films, I can't imagine what he could have taken from Disney. it also helps that he doesn't have much competition in the animation world today. the other more or less famous names aren't as mainstream as he is

Re:Why not

[Danny Rathjens]

I don't see what influencing western culture has to do with it.
Before Titanic came out, Princess Mononoke was the number 1 highest grossing box office hit ever in Japan. And it won best picture at the Japanese academy awards. So Kate and Leo on the bow of the Titanic or Mickey ensorcelling brooms are just as memorable to Japanese as San charging into battle in her mask or the Kodoma mimicking Ashitaka. :)

Re:Why not

[story645]

I don't see what influencing western culture has to do with it. Well, when trying to compare someone to Disney, I think that's the whole point-I mean Disney changed American culture (and arguably had a large effect on other western cultures) and some global influence, but less. I think Miyazaki's work is absolutely fabulous, but I don't think his influence is comparable to Disney or Nintendo (and I think that realm of influence is mostly western culture.)

Me and this guy

[icepick72]

he almost comes across as just another salaryman (though a particularly creative and happy one) with a wife and two school-age children at home near Kyoto. He is not tabloid fodder, and he seems to maintain a relatively nondescript lifestyle

Wow, that's the exact same with me, except I don't have the fame.

Re:Me and this guy

[Anonymous Coward]

You live with Miaymoto's wife and two school-age children near Kyoto?

Re:Me and this guy

[neminem]

Technically, he only stated that he lives with a wife and two school-age children near Kyoto. And how do you know he doesn't?

Characters vs Gameplay

[SanityInAnarchy]

âoeI feel that people like Mario and people like Link and the other characters weâ(TM)ve created not for the characters themselves, but because the games they appear in are fun,â he said. âoeAnd because people enjoy playing those games first, they come to love the characters as well.â That sums it up perfectly. He's the polar opposite of games like Final Fantasy, where the characters and story are the most memorable parts, and gameplay supports them.

It fits in nicely with the reason the Wii works -- it's about gameplay, and everything else is secondary.

Re:Characters vs Gameplay

[hiruhl]

That sums it up perfectly. He's the polar opposite of games like Final Fantasy, where the characters and story are the most memorable parts, and gameplay supports them. I get your point, but with your example you are ignoring the fact that Final Fantasy is an RPG. Different genres require different strengths in games, and RPGs happen to rely heavily on plot and characters, and hence the gameplay SHOULD (in general, not always) be designed around these things. It's just a different style of game.

Some games are made worse by too much plot and character development (ever been to the library in Super Mario Galaxy? yawn... or imagine if Dance Dance Revolution had a story and cut scenes), but for other games, it is legitimately their lifeblood.

Re:Characters vs Gameplay

[SanityInAnarchy]

I get your point, but with your example you are ignoring the fact that Final Fantasy is an RPG. Different genres require different strengths in games I ignore this fact because good gameplay and good story are not mutually exclusive -- see Portal -- and because genres are not set in stone -- see Gloom, Tremulous, Natural Selection.

imagine if Dance Dance Revolution had a story and cut scenes I see your point, but that's DDR in its current incarnation. It'd be naive to assume that a game, played with your feet, and to music, could never successfully have a plot. Playing through the original Doom, it'd be hard to imagine an FPS ever being better for having a plot, but many are.

I'm also not saying there's anything wrong with Final Fantasy.

Re:Characters vs Gameplay

[bigstrat2003]

I ignore this fact because good gameplay and good story are not mutually exclusive -- see Portal... Eh. I wouldn't call Portal a shining example of good story. It's a shining example of gameplay, writing, voice acting, pacing... but the plot itself was fairly weak, in my opinion. Just way too minimalistic... it needed some meat, something to add a little depth to it. In fact, I can't really think of a game where both plot and gameplay were supreme. Both are generally good, but if a game truly excels in one, it never seems to bring the other along, just leaves it at "good".

Re:Characters vs Gameplay

[tmalone]

Actually a game for the Dreamcast called Space Channel 5 already gave DDR a plot. There are aliens that have taken over and you have to dance and shoot, following the moves shown to you in order to defeat them. The game was just weird enough to be a lot of fun. The concept is so far out there that you can't help but accept it completely. Plus, the visual design of the game is very cool in a retro 1960s view of space travel kinda way.

Re:Characters vs Gameplay

[GreatGreen]

There are a few jewels out there that I would say have a strong story and gameplay to boot, but that's not the point I'm making. I think the gaming industy, at its very beginning, was all about the gameplay. I'm sure nobody sat down and thought of a good reason why the aliens were invading or why a little creature needed to eat all the little dots without being caught by a ghost. Then it moved on to the simple premise. Games strated coming out with one enforcing point behind them, and I think Zelda was one of these. The first Zelda games revolved around one thing: Bad guy is taking over using powerful artifact. The gameplay was the focus here, with a single-point story to hold it together, and the character (which would eventually come to represent a "coming of age story" character), Link, was born. Nowadays, games are trying to be movies. Cinematic camera angles, special effects and whatnot. I'm not against the change, just an observer.

I don't think...

[DeusExCalamus]

that a video game designer should be hailed as the modern day equivalent of a man widely known for his creativity in an animated medium, I rather think that someone such as Hayao Miyazaki would be the modern day equivalent of Mr. Disney...

Re:I don't think...

[hiruhl]

Disney was innovating in television and motion pictures when those mediums were up-and-coming. Miyamoto has been innovating in videogames while they've been up-and-coming. Both have created iconic characters which have burrowed their way into popular culture and the common consciousness of generations of children, worldwide.

So let me get this straight...

[Anonymous Coward]

Shigeru Miyamoto is an anti-semite?

Depends which ones you watch?

[Xenographic]

And once you read enough TVTropes, you won't think of anything as 'original' ever again :]

Still, there are tons of great anime that are really creative. Death Note springs to mind. I can't think of anything else where the suspense was that strong, or where the characters were that intelligent.

I know some will say that 'anything popular is crap', but Bleach & Naruto have very engaging stories, too (the manga, not the crappy Naruto filler). I admit, those two are getting a little long in the tooth, but at the outset, they were on the top of their game.

And once you get into lesser-known series (say, Hikaru no Go, Kekkaishi, Rental Magica, REC, Hayate no Gotoku, Dennou Coil, Code-E, Bamboo Blade, or Akagi) you'll find that there's a lot more to be had than robots, sentai and tentacle porn.

Re:Depends which ones you watch?

[indi0144]

You forgot Serial Experiments LAIN .. technopunk is the best!

Re:Depends which ones you watch?

[Donniedarkness]

I have to agree with you on Death Note-- I haven't seen ANY other type of television series where the characters were that smart (and not in the "I'm going to make this coconut into a phone!" way, or the "I haxed his computer! See the 'HARD DRIVE DELETING' progress bar?" way, but the real way).

Anyone care to recommend any other anime that is genuinely smart?

Re:Depends which ones you watch?

[Xenographic]

Finding really smart anime is the hardest, because the writers themselves have to be as smart or smarter than the characters :/

I've seen some good writing, and a smart section or two, but Death Note towers above most series in that category. It's simply and absolutely phenomenal how the author can keep up that level of engagement.

If you find any, let me know, too! Even just with an OT comment as an AC to some random, recent comment. I'd love to find more anime like Death Note in terms of intelligence (or suspense).

Hmm, wait. Actually, Detective Academy Q *DOES* have a number of good tricks in it. It's just not on the same level, but it's another good series I forgot to mention.

Watch out for that dumb cactus guy, too. You wouldn't think that a guy in a cactus suit (or later, a godzilla suit) could blend in until you have the fact that you didn't notice him shoved in your face :-]

Re:Depends which ones you watch?

[Fatalis]

the credit for being creative doesn't go to the Death Note anime, it goes to the manga. the anime is just an adaptation and adds basically nothing in terms of storyline or character design

also, some of the titles you included in your list make me think that you're either new to anime or just aren't very critical. one shouldn't recommend stinkers like Code-E or Hayate no Gotoku to people you're trying to convince that anime isn't bad, especially since there are much better options, e.g., some of the progressive series like Ergo Proxy or GitS

Re:Depends which ones you watch?

[adlucem]

I liked "kodomo no omocha", it was pretty funny! Must have been a hell to sub though.

Re:Depends which ones you watch?

[KDR_11k]

I think Code Geass which ran on TV at the same time as Death Note is comparable though if you like smart and thinking characters I'd go with a good book instead (Asimov's Foundation series is one I liked).

Re:Depends which ones you watch?

[Anonymous Coward]

Code Geass is currently running its second season.

Re:Depends which ones you watch?

[Anonymous Coward]

Some anime is sadly extremely formulaic (the recent film Paprika, while visually beautiful, wasn't very deep plotwise).

But scratch under the surface and you'll fine some interesting stuff. Watch Monster and When They Cry. Monster is a very mature (not porn, just not for kids) psychological thriller about a doctor framed for murder and the actual murderer he's trying to kill. Very well written and well animated.

"When they Cry" looks like nothing special--the characters are all big-eyed schoolkids--but the plot is what makes it worth watching. You basically watch as these innocent kids slowly lose sanity because of a cult and become brutal murderers. The plots end in wince-worthy violence, and then restarts with everyone alive. Some events are the same in every version, like the festival, but characters' motivations and actions change every time.

Re:Depends which ones you watch?

[Jurrasic]

The only anime I'd put in the same category of gripping every last bit of your attention (although with less clever and engaging writing that Death Note falls into and with a completely different atmosphere) is Mushishi. I won't even describe it to you. Just download it (or buy it, i think there is a dub sold in north america now) and watch it. You will be glad.

Re:Depends which ones you watch?

[Jarik_Tentsu]

And once you get into lesser-known series (say, Hikaru no Go, Kekkaishi, Rental Magica, REC, Hayate no Gotoku, Dennou Coil, Code-E, Bamboo Blade, or Akagi) you'll find that there's a lot more to be had than robots, sentai and tentacle porn. As someone with a collection of 180+ anime (Here's a complete list if anybody wants...), I can vouch for this. Anime storylines can range from something very 'typical' to what you may think, to very deep, complex or even downright disturbing (in a good way - like Berserk) storylines. There's so many 'types' and 'styles' that you really can't put them all in one group. People tend to just look at the stuff which comes on Primetime in America or Australia - stuff like Pokemon, Digimon, Dragonball Z, Naruto, etc etc. There's a lot more to anime like that.

And even robot anime tend to have very intricate storylines! They're more than just "Transformers" kinda stuff.

I mean, I dare someone to say Neon Genesis is just an anime about robots. It is a dark anime which explores a rather depressive look at human nature; an anime completely filled with theistic references throughout.

Or even the Gundams - I've seen Gundam Wing, Gundam SEED and Gundam 00. Each one presents a different outlook on war, and minus some cheesy character development in SEED, they all have some quite mature themes.

And currently, I'm watching the best anime I've seen yet - Code Geass R2. It could be classified as a mecha, but like Death Note, it's more focused on the battle of wits between the main protagonist and his war against the Empire of Britannia. The mecha skirmishes are awesome, but the anime focuses so much *more* on the character development of everyone, the intricacies of Lelouch's plans and the Emperor's schemes, the complexities that arise and whatnot. It's an awesome anime (that of course, might not appeal to some. But I highly highly recommend. If you liked Death Note, or like Mecha, pick this up. Like most it's a bit slow initially, but you'll love it). An anime like that is enough that after every episode, my mate and I have long discussions pondering and contemplating what was revealed in the previous episode. First time an anime has been that complex I could actually do that. =)

But yeah, back on the point. Anime can be very creative. I mean, I look at some of this stuff and I really think "How is they thought of that? This world?" because some of those ideas are so 'out there'. And there is just so much anime! Thousands! Many of them very creative. I really find it amazing that anime can really dominate so many genres so well.

Your local anime otaku,
~Jarik

Re:Depends which ones you watch?

[Donniedarkness]

Code Geass is pretty good, and I've recommended it to quite a few people who like Death Note. The big problem with it, however, is that there is too much fanservice, and way too many "Haha, I predicted you'd do this!" without any good reason. Light's and L's mind battles were always very solid-- it made sense for each of them to think what they did. Lelouch, however, "predicts" too much stuff that is based on chance. I still watch it, though. Season two is airing at the moment on Japanese television.

Re:Depends which ones you watch?

[Xenographic]

Actually, I've seen Mushishi (which probably translates as something like 'Bug Master', even though the 'bugs' are actually simple, but screwball supernatural creatures). It's paced a little slowly and episodic, though, but you're right that the main guy was intelligent and had to figure out how to deal with each weirdo type of mushi...

Wrong Hayao Miyazaki already owns that title.

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

Learn about Hayao Miyazaki, then watch all of Studio Ghibli's work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayao_Miyazaki

Also do yourself a huge favor and see Grave of Fireflies by Isao Takahata. It's a Studio Ghibli film by Miyasaki's long time friend and partner. Its incredible, especially since its based on a real story.

Learn about Isao Takahata here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takahata_Isao

Re:Wrong Hayao Miyazaki already owns that title.

[Paxtez]

I've heard a few people describe Grave of the Fireflies as so moving, "If you don't cry, you have no soul."

I have the movie around here somewhere, but since I don't want hard proof I've never watched it. :/

Re:Wrong Hayao Miyazaki already owns that title.

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

You have to watch that movie. Everything you've heard is true. It will move you to tears. It is an amazing example of animation being used for "grown up" stories. Its a sad film and yes it will move you to tears as it did me.

Re:Wrong Hayao Miyazaki already owns that title.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

i didn't cry... but before i watched it i took a red hot iron poker to my tear ducts.

Re:Wrong Hayao Miyazaki already owns that title.

[zobier]

Everyone should at least see: Laputa: Castle in the Sky, My Neighbor Totoro, Kiki's Delivery Service, Spirited Away & Howl's Moving Castle.

Re:Wrong Hayao Miyazaki already owns that title.

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

How can you leave Princess Mononoke out of that list!?

I wasnt a fan of Howl's moving Castle. It wasnt a great Miyazaki film.

I also recommend, Naussica, and Whisper of the Heart.

Re:Wrong Hayao Miyazaki already owns that title.

[Nalgas D. Lemur]

None of the people I watched it with even liked it or thought it was any good, much less were moved to tears by it. We all had very high hopes for it but ended up mostly being bored by it and not really drawn into the story. The reviews and summaries made it sound so good, but something about the actual presentation of it just didn't do it for us. I guess we're all soulless. Oh well.

Re:Wrong Hayao Miyazaki already owns that title.

[Nalgas D. Lemur]

Princess Mononoke was the first one I saw, and it annoyed me so much that I didn't bother watching anything else of his until this year. It took My Neighbor Totoro to convince me that I actually do like some of his stuff. Mononoke came across as a bunch of hippie-dippie, femi-nazi, Luddite bullshit to me and just irritated me more and more as it went on. Visually it was well done, although not really my preferred style, but the characters mostly annoyed me, and the plot was ridiculous. I enjoyed Totoro enough to convince me to put more of his other stuff on my list, though, so we'll see how that goes. So far, Howl's Moving Castle was fun, but not very deep. I should really go watch Spirited Away one of these days.

Re:Wrong Hayao Miyazaki already owns that title.

[analog_line]

I would recommend that you only rent Graveyard of the Fireflies. I, and everyone I know whose seen it haven't been able to get the stomach up to watch it more than once. Something you should see, but very, very hard to watch.

Re:Wrong Hayao Miyazaki already owns that title.

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

heheh Hate to break it to you, but the message or theme whatever you want to call it, is very much Miyazaki and is also apart of many of his other films. All of his films have a bit of conserving wildlife, nature, the environment etc. Spirited Away is a great film about personal growth but there is a segment of the film that deals with nature conservation etc.

I can see the Femi-Nazi's in Mononoke but it doesnt bother me much as i know its not his message. Infact i beleive if i remember right, was that the message is that we do need all of nature, man women, animals, the planet and that seperating yourself from your very own nature can be destructive. Female from man, man from nature etc.

Miyasaki isnt about empowering women above man, but instead his films tend to show young women becoming brave, and overcoming their fears and finding personal strength in a culture that is historically male dominated. Remember his films are made for Japan.

Miyazaki often deals with stories around strong women, usually finding their strength. You will see this as well in Spirited Away, Nassuica, Kiki's Delivery Service, Whisper of the Heart, Mononoke, and Porco Rosso. You can even add Castles in the Sky to that but its more about a girl who find a boy and together they adventure.

Re:Wrong Hayao Miyazaki already owns that title.

[Nalgas D. Lemur]

In general, I'm fine with and even enjoy those kinds of themes in movies/books/TV shows/games. I actually really liked the Shinto/respect for nature themes in My Neighbor Totoro, for example, and Jade from Beyond Good and Evil is one of my favorite new characters in the past few years. Something about how it was presented in Mononoke felt forced and overbearing to me, though. I wish I could explain it better, but it's been a while since I saw it. I'm still hopeful about some of the other movies, since people I know with similar tastes to mine have liked them, but I guess I won't know for sure until I get through all the other stuff I already have sitting around to watch/read/play.

Re:Wrong Hayao Miyazaki already owns that title.

[evilninjax]

When GRAVE OF THE FIREFLIES originally played in the theatres in Japan, it was the first film of a double bill. The second film? TOTORO.

Re:Wrong Hayao Miyazaki already owns that title.

[evilninjax]

I also recommend, Naussica, and Whisper of the Heart. Whisper of the Heart is Yoshifumi Kondou, not Miyazaki.

Re:Wrong Hayao Miyazaki already owns that title.

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

Correct, Hayao Miyazaki did not direct Whisper of the Heart, but he did write it.

Thumb Candy

[lobiusmoop]

I'd recommend Slashdotters (especially from the UK) have a look at a 2000 documentary called Thumb Candy, presented by Ian Lee. It is about the history of computer games, and it has an interview with Miyamoto. Search for 'Thumb Candy' on YouTube to see it.

Carmack?

[adamofgreyskull]

Not too sure if John Carmack belongs on a list of game designers. Of the two Johns, I've only ever thought of Romero as a designer. Certainly Romero, Tom Hall et al. dominate the design credits of id's games.

Interestingly Commander Keen, id's first game has it's origins as a *Mario clone. They even went so far as to replicate SMB3 in it's entirety, and took it to Nintendo.
* Cite of a cite as I can't be arsed to get up and get Masters of Doom off the shelf...

Re:The "Wii Fit"? YGBK!

[5pp000]

Nobody thought that was funny, huh? Oh well... I think this is my first post modded -1, Troll! Cool!

Aaaaaah!

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps I must be new here, but this is the first time I've seen the weeaboo nintendrone slashdotters out in full force. It isn't pretty. At least they haven't managed to completely take over.

Sorry, quite right about Carmack

[Digestromath]

I often forget which John is which. Carmack was a programmer and responsible for the engines. Although the Doom/Quake games always seemed like nothing more than engine showcases.

Re:Sorry, quite right about Carmack

[Cowclops]

All of Id's games are engine showcases. Nothing they have made would stand on its own if it weren't for the fact that they also had fancy technology at the time.

Wow...

[Anonymous Coward]

Miyamoto is an overrated idiot on the level of Hayao Miyazaki. I can't stand how people continue to fellate these unimaginative hacks throughout the years of re-hashes and mediocre Big Name sequels. Get some fucking taste in games and anime you predictable morons.

You want staggering originality and true art from japan? Look up Fumito Ueda and Makoto Shinkai. The REAL 2 names that should be tossed about with the words "innovation" and "creativity" attached to them.

Re:Wow...

[trytoguess]

It looks like they both created some well done but very niche "artsy" products. Along with the argument that popularity can be a factor for measuring innovation in art, artsy stuff is a surprisingly common in Japan. Think Kino no Tabi, Shjo Kakumei Utena, Live a Live, a lot of Gainax, (arguably) Satoshi Kon, Enix (before it merged with Squaresoft), Cat Soup, etc.

Not quite, Miyamoto also does hardware

[Solr_Flare]

Miyamoto is actually on yet another level from those guys. Don't get me wrong, all of them are insanely talented in game design, equal too, or in some areas, beyond Miyamoto. But, Miyamoto has two things that set him apart from that group:

First, he's been at it a bit longer than most of them. A few started up not too long after him, but he's kind of got the "first" award.

Second, and more importantly, Miyamoto doesn't just design games, he designs hardware. In fact, his degree is in industrial design, not software design. He has had direct involvement in almost every piece of hardware designed by Nintendo in the last 20+ years. Some systems more than others mind you, but he definitely plays a big role in, if nothing else, the concepts behind the hardware designs. In fact, the Wii is very much Miyamoto's baby as he has a huge influence on its design and direction.

The fact that he's been at it for so long, and does hardware and software so equally well, really puts him a step above the others.

Re:Not quite, Miyamoto also does hardware

[Tacvek]

Well, Gunpei Yokoi was around at basically the very beginning and was both hardware-software. He also assisted in several of Miyamoto's more famous franchises, as well as created the Metroid franchise. While perhaps not Miyamoto's equal, he comes very close.

As far as the others, Will Wright really sticks out. Simcity spawned a huge franchise for Maxis, "The Sims" will be remembered well as a shocking success. (even though it really was not nearly as timeless or as great as the classics). Time will tell what Spore will do.

Sid Meier while a hell of a designer has no true franchises that are really part of Popular Culture. Many more people are aware of Mario, Zelda, Sonic, Sim City, Metroid, than the Civilization series. In fact I've come quite close to never having played any of his games. Of the ones I have played, I've found them rather unremarkable.

Re:Not quite, Miyamoto also does hardware

[dq5 studios]

Gunpei created the Gameboy, Virtual Boy and the Wonderswan. He also died in a car accident just as Nintendo and him were making up for blaming him for the failure of the Virtual Boy. It's possible he could've become Miyamoto's equal, or even surpassed him had he lived.

Those were only ones I've seen.

[Xenographic]

I only listed anime I've watched in full. Alas, I have not seen that one, though I know of it, of course.

There's Grave of the Fireflies / anything from Studio Ghibli, too. (Have they _EVER_ made a bad movie?)

I don't want to list everything I've ever watched, though. I have seen my share of generic or derivative series (love sims turned into anime, CCGs or similar games turned into anime, sentai, robots, etc.), enjoyable things played out too long (Urusei Yatsura ...), etc.

But those I listed above were a pretty diverse cross-section of series with good stories and interesting characters. Each of those has its strengths and weaknesses, but there isn't a one in that list I gave that I didn't really enjoy or look forward to watching the next episode.

And you really notice that when you watch a series in a few days and either feel like burning through them all or debating whether you'll come back to them later...

Re:Those were only ones I've seen.

[jandrese]

Studio Ghibli is the Pixar of Japan, through a careful combination of skill, budget, and enthusiasm they pop out one hit after another.

Re:The "Wii Fit"? YGBK!

[GameboyRMH]

I LOLed...but no mod points today :( Looks like you got hit by a roaming pack of oversensitive fanboys with no sense of humor. That happens sometimes, you just have to know when there's a risk and make sure your karma is sufficient.

Shigeru Miyamoto, The Walt Disney of Our Time

[Anonymous Coward]

Shigeru Miyamoto, The Walt Disney of Our Time... but more than likely, without Walt's insane level of anti-semitism (or unholy hunger for the flesh of Cuban children).

Re:The "Wii Fit"? YGBK!

[5pp000]

Ah, okay, thanks for the reply.

watered-down games

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's be serious here. There are VERY few games that are IMPOSSIBLE. You just suck at the difficult ones. No problem, most people do. But, while you describe the trend toward easier games as a successful strategy for making games mainstream, some of us lament the lack of challenge.

When I can clear a game because I've spent the time with it to actually improve my skills, I feel like I've accomplished something. Look at the bracket tournaments, highest score/lowest time contests that grew around the arcade genres back when arcades had the cutting edge games. Even while the duration of the game may be short, there is more in it than just seeing the graphics, hearing the sound, and absorbing the story (if there even was a story). Contrast that with some modern console games which seem to be a "choose your own adventure" story with gameplay that is a series of chores requiring minimal attention.

Get off my lawn, etc.

Re:watered-down games

[trdrstv]

Let's be serious here. There are VERY few games that are IMPOSSIBLE.

In current game design you are correct, but original arcade games were designed to not have a conclusion. You would just play for as long as possible and get the high score.

The end of EVERY game of Missile Command, has you dying from being overwhelmed. The concept of "beating" an early arcade game came from technical limitations where the chip would malfunction and you'd hit a "kill screen"; that became the artificial "ending" if you were good enough to say ... clear over 200 levels of Pacman.

This is also why these games are so timeless. 50 years from now when we may be playing games that will look far more realistic, control better, be bigger and far more immersive than anything today. GTA4 will look small and primitive by comparison, yet Tetris and Pacman shall remain "timeless".