Slashdot Mirror
Netflix To Eliminate Profiles Feature
Donald Burr of Borg writes "One of my favorite features of Netflix, the video-rental-by-mail service, is 'profiles.' Profiles lets you create 'sub-accounts' for your friends/family, so that they can share in the video rental love. Each profile gets his/her own Netflix queue that he/she can manage with their own login/password. You can divide up how many movies get sent to you vs. the other profiles under your account. E.g. if you have a 6-out-at-once plan, you can choose to get 3 movies at a time, and have 3 other profiles each receive 1 movie. Unfortunately, the fun stops September 1, at which point Netflix is, for unknown reasons, going to terminate this feature. Why? To '...help us to continue to improve the Netflix website for all our customers.' Improvement indeed."
I do not understand what cost savings Netflix would achieve by this reduction in service.
I would guess that it isn't working properly from their standpoint making it a PITA to maintain and deal with.
The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination
- Douglas Adams
Based on the information coming out on this it doesn't look good. Did they research how much this would piss off the current customers? It is coming off like they don't care. Perhaps the profile feature is causing bigger problems behind the scenes. If it is the later then they should find better programmers to work around the problem(s).
Keep the Classic Slashdot.
My family uses it and its only been a positive. I'm betting a bean counter marketing type suggested that it might force me to get separate accounts if I couldnt use the separate queues.
It says that you can't transfer your profile data to another account (from their FAQ). It's like they don't want customers! I expect them to lose a lot of customers over this. Glad I don't own any of their stock... it's gonna tank.
I think they're trying to get people to pay for more than one account. I don't know what features they could be adding that would warrant dropping sub accounts. I have a funny feeling this is going to backfire and they'll lose more people than they gain.
This has been a life-saver for me; rather than having to remember what movies my wife wants to see, and having my movies held up when she takes a week to watch one, I can set her up with her on mini-queue and then not have to worry about it. What Netflix fails to realize is that there is no way in hell I will pay for a separate account for this, and I doubt many other people will, either. I was fairly upset when I got the email, and am considering looking at the Blockbuster service, since I can also use it locally... anyone know if Blockbuster provides something similar to the Profile feature?
"To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking: Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!"
I canceled my NetFlix account because they never responded to me when I asked 3 times if they would ever have a way to view their streaming thing in GNU/Linux or at least Firefox instead of being forced to use Internet Explorer.
Not a bad idea, mailing DVD's back and forth (the US postal service has to get SOME use now with the internet taking over), and the price wasn't something to cause any hesitation, I just couldn't stand getting ignored.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
Very lame. I got the same e-mail and it pisses me off. The profiles feature is what made my wife and I decide to try Netflix over Blockbuster Online. We have 3 out at once, I get my own queue, she gets her own queue, and then we have a queue of things we both want to see. Trying to maintain a single queue so things come to us the same way will be a nightmare, we will probably cancel our Netflix account, it just isn't worth the hassle anymore. We've had no problems with the profile system, it seems to me that canceling it just lets their web developers be lazy little babies.
I tagged the article "1984" and "bigbrother" because 90% of the idiots here will see the word "profile" and jump to the same conclusion.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
If you're as unhappy as this "improvement" in service as I am, then click on Contact Us button in Netflix and let them know that you will be looking to change to a competitor. A few zillion such complaints may cause them to reconsider.
Between this and the FCC not releasing how it classified broadband penetration, it's enough to drive me to drink.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
I'd give it a week and some skilled firefox hacker will create some addon to put it back in from the user side.
Sean D.
"Hmm. I am to metaphor cheese as metaphor cheese is to transitive verb crackers!"
According to their customer support, this was a feature only used by 1% of subscribers, but was a significant drain on resources, increased maintenance difficulties, and slowed down adding new features. I don't particularly buy most of that, but if the 1% thing is true, then I can see how they'd make that choice. If more of that 1% convert to full subscriptions rather than cancel, it'll be a win for them.
I've been a Netflix subscriber for over four years. This is the first time they've ever taken a step backwards. And their complete lack justification is very strange.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Touching. I'm reminded of a sign I once saw on the door of a bank branch, some years ago while I was living in Boston:
For my convenience. Heartwarming, isn't it, how these folks are always looking out for us.I just look for either sun or clouds. Both are enough to know that there is going to be weather that day and crack one open.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
If they wanted to save cost why not leave their interface the way it was instead of making changes to it every two or three months. Seriously. All this web 2.0 crap is killing my old laptop computer and it is totally unnecessary. The site was wonderful a couple years ago when I signed up and now it's a damn iPod clone. Ugh.
I'm writing them to say I disapprove of this and if they do not have a similar replacement feature then I will look elsewhere for DVD rentals.
That's strange because Lovefilm, the dominant DVD-by-mail company in the UK, has only recently introduced this feature.
11.0010010000111111011010101000100010000101101000
On the comment of "improving customer relations" the local branch of the bank I deal with was recently closed down.
A sign on the front door said "In order to serve you better, this branch has been closed"
The branch wasn't *that* bad, but I thought the wording of the sign was funny.
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
Looks clear to me from reading the summary, they get 2 paying accounts instead of one.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Maybe too many customers is too "confuse", don't know how to use this feature. Too many support cost for the feature. Indeed, "No customer left behind".
I use the profiles feature, but not in the intended way. I keep a separate queue for different types of movies. I currently have 3 profiles. One for TV shows (so I always have 1 Torchwood disc at home), one for mindless action & scifi movies that I can watch without my wife, and one for movies for us to watch together. All the movies are for me, but I've had to create three profiles with fake names. Each time I switch between queues, I have to login again. Any since it thinks each queue represents a separate person, it doesn't remember any of my past rentals or movie ratings.
Personally, when I got the email from Netflix, a little part of me thought 'good... maybe their going to try to do it right this time'
I just called Netflix customer service to ask for clarification on how this helps improve the web site. The rep responded that they needed to free up programming space for better features, and that it's really a tiny, tiny percentage of people that use profiles to separate queues. (Slashdot and Gizmodo, the two sites I checked for reactions to this, are apparently chock full of tiny, tiny percentages.)
When I told her that I'm a programmer and I don't understand what it means to free up programming space, she was quiet for a moment and then said, "This is really a decision that they've already made, so it's not like they're going to change their minds."
I'm all for freeing up programming space. Statistics show that programming space will be all used up in the next 10 years if we don't start conserving it.
I just called and told them that I intend to cancel my account on the day they remove my ability to maintain separate queues.
For those considering defecting, it does not appear that Blockbuster has a comparable profiles feature. Does anybody know of another service that might work?
http://www.netflix.com/Suggest?type=2&lnkctr=cu_suggest
I sent mine to the effect of "...if this becomes a scheduling burden I'll have to look into other service providers, such as Block Buster."
Anyone know if Block Buster has a "queue"-type functionality? And I said I would never go back to them...
I didn't know they had this feature. With Blockbuster, my fiancee and I order one movie for her, one movie for me, and one for us. It can sometimes be difficult to manage. I would have switched back to Netflix if I knew about this. Too bad they are getting rid of it.
Get off my lawn.
The Netflix community blog discusses this. Still sounds like smoke being blown up our....
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=2765056849626104020&postID=3792638994944169934&pli=1
I am currently using Blockbuster Total Access, but have been thinking of switching back to Netflix because I missed the profiles feature. I guess I won't be worrying about switching back again, unless they come out with the XBOX 360 integration I have been hearing rumors about.
Profiles was an excellent feature of Netflix. It gave each member of my family their own queue and avoided any arguments about which disc was next. I'm shopping for a new HDTV. As soon as I get it I'm buying an Apple TV and getting rid of Netflix.
I don't think Netflix is even providing an automated way to merge the individual queues back into one - each family member might need to do it manually. What a pain and a stupid idea from Netflix. Up until now I thought they were a good company.
Profiles is the only reason I would have switched from Blockbuster to Netflix. Blockbuster was great for my wife and I because we could return movies to the store and get more movies for free (my wife watches a lot of stuff on the days she has off). But we're moving away from any nearby Blockbuster stores this week so I was seriously considering switching to Netflix. I would love it if my wife and I each had our own queue. Then we wouldn't get 10 romantic comedies in a row or 10 action movies. Ah well.
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
I'm going to guess that they're ending it because it's complicating their data model too much. No, I have no evidence for that, but something very similar has happened twice with the application I work on. Early on we had a request for similar "subaccounts." If we had written the original application with that in mind, it probably wouldn't have been so awful, but instead we grafted them on, reusing "primary" account code as much as possible but finding lots of places where we had to add special-case handling for the subaccounts. When I inherited responsibility for the billing code, I found that roughly 15% was dedicated to subaccounts -- totally disproportionate to their adoption or usefulness. It got to where I had to put it to my boss: give me a month to clear up this mess or get rid of the feature. Now we're trying to phase them out, which turns out to be the worst possible way to handle it.
Another very similar situation arose with a feature designed to let customer service reps temporarily assume customers' identity. Again the crux of the problem was the multiplication of special-case code: "if user.isRep() x; else y;" became a plague on the application. Again, it came down to refactoring a large part of the code base or discontinuing the feature.
"I just wanted to share that I am extremely disappointed to see Profiles going away. Profiles have allowed my wife and I to share a netflix account without any marital discord. Now I will have to navigate the horrors of balancing my wife's desire for romantic comedies with my desire for action & sci-fi movies. I will be sure to forward you the transcripts of our arguments so you too can join in the discomfort."
I think profiles are causing a real PITA for the site programmers to maintain code and scrapping it all together will allow faster and more flexible programming models.
My boss' response to that kind of reasoning? backed up by the marketing department, CEO, and customers? "Cope."
Massively degrading the user's experience is not excused by programmer's convenience.
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
We only have a two out at a time plan and it works great, at any given time we have two movies to pick from. No arguments over someone hogging all of the movie choices, options most of the time for either of us to watch (save for the 2 days between sending an old one out and recieving a new one in). But considering 1 in 5 discs I've gotten from them is bad and needs a replacement coupled with the loss of queues and having a blockbuster around the corner, I think I may be looking for a change. Their online unlimited movies just isn't worth it considering the mainstream movies are few and far between.
I have 2 Netflix friends named "John". It's impossible to tell them apart on most screens. Can't you at least append the last initial to their names? Or let me give them a nickname?
Not only were profiles helpful for queues as stated here, but also for keeping the varied tastes of myself, wife and children separate too. Having gone through and rated a large number of movies, we are now getting *fairly* accurate predictions of movies we might like.
If they actually follow through with this and family/friends merge into one profile, the prediction algorithm will be lobotomized since it will try to predict based on different people's opinions. We'll be back to getting notices like this one that I got before we had separate profiles: Based on your ratings, we think you'll like the following two movies: Bambi Platinum Edition and Scarface 20th Anniversary Edition.
I was in the first wave to join Netflix, and I was a user who, early on, made repeated requests for better ways to manage the queue. What they implemented was a good try, but it was not that for which I was looking. As the account owner, I wanted to be able to manage all queues from a single screen. I despised the way I needed to manage each queue on its own screen (I gave up on profiles at least a year ago, so I don't know if they rectified this).
What I envisioned originally was to be able to manage multiple lists on a single screen: lets call them List A, List B, and List C. When browsing and adding movies to the queue, you still have one button to add movies, but it would have a drop-down option that would let you choose another queue. Thus, the default button action would be the same, but you would have the option of diverting the request. For queue management, I had pitched a system similar to the one the adopted, allowing you to specify how to intersperse the movies from the other queues. For controls, I envisioned parameters only on the sub-queues. Using the names I provided earlier in and example, you could configure List B to send one movie after every three sent on the primary queue. I envisioned being able to drag-and-drop between the lists on the same GUI page. As for others adding their preferences to the queue, the account owner could specify users (by email address) who could logon and add to specific queues, much the way the service was implemented. For younger kids who may not have their own eddresses, Netflix could have allowed the account owner to create logon accounts that would be child accounts and have limited rights. If the owner's logon was thisuser@somedomain.com, for example, I envisioned secondary accounts that could be named subAccountName~thisuser@somedomain.com.
Oh, and yes, I was this verbose in passing my comments on to Netflix. I was pleased that they opted for profiles, but was disappointed by how cumbersome they were to manage. Placing all profile management in a single page view would have gone far in making them easier to use.
I guess I'm disappointed to see Netflix throw out the baby with the bathwater, but they can see that users like me have stopped using the profiles. It reaches a point where the amount of developer support hours and system maintenance tasks invested in a minimally used feature necessitates a pause to rethink the strategy. Hopefully we will see an improved queue management system in the future.
I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
someone DID crack the Netflix database:
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~shmat/shmat_oak08netflix.pdf
On 1 September you plan on removing the sub accounts, I want to voice our families opinion on this and Remind you that we are the customer, and making it convenient for your Programmers to update code at the expense of your "CUSTOMERS" is unacceptable. If NETFLIX does indeed remove this feature, we will voice our concerns the only way that will matter to you. We will unsubscribe from your service as I am sure may others will do. So until September 1st.... Your current customer.
Why is the iPod successful? It just works.
Netflix Profiles "just works". I have my queue of 150+ movies, and without further effort the movies I want show up in the order I want, one at a time; ditto for my wife, who being home more than I am gets two a at a time. NO EFFORT.
Now you, and Netflix, pull the "quit whining, it's EASY to get the same thing, just go reshuffle the mutual queue..." without realizing that now that we've _made_ our lists (over 300 movies total), now we have to go _update_ that list every day. That doesn't "just work", that takes constant fiddling when we've got plenty of other things to do.
On top of that, our wildly different tastes (sappy chick flix vs. sci-fi noir & grusome action) means that the "suggestions" tool is useless. One of us gets on to review suggestions, and half the stuff suggested will be undesirable (never mind any bizzare half-breed "because you liked '27 Dresses' and 'Akira'...").
Profiles worked. It's extremely useful to some customers. Fix the code; don't wreck the customer experience.
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
Does anyone know if Blockbuster's movie-rental-by-mail program offers separate queues?
So, someone is unhappy with the modification of a service in a site... shit ScreenSelect got bought by lovefilm and the service sucks [about 2 years ago]... did I posted a story on slashdot ranting about it?? no, I just stopped using the service...
seriously
rantslashdot
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
I can see the reason to get rid of profiles(to get people who are friends doubling up on one account when they could each have their own) but I highly doubt they are completely ridding themselves of preferred queuing. Virtual queuing can be done in one profile via different methods. You could have a single profile with tagged movies. Imagine you could tag a movie saying this one's for me and this one the whole family will love. The profile could then be configured to prioritize the way movies are shipped out based on tags.
it takes about five seconds to drag and drop a movie in the queue
That's if you've got your Netflix queue up.
Which is if you've gone to the Netflix page.
Which is if you've interrupted whatever else you were doing on-line.
Which is if you've got the computer turned on and browser started.
Which is if you've stopped doing something else to do all the above.
Which is if you've realized you just sent something back and need to adjust what comes next when Netflix receives it.
Which is if you've realized that the other queue-user either won't like what's up next or has already done the above to trump your choice.
Which is if you've got the inclination to coordinate the delivery of several hundred queue contents.
Which is if you've decided to even keep the Netflix account after the wonderful tool, that saved you from even having to think about any of the above, was abruptly canceled and now you have to go from "no effort" to "daily fiddling & aggrivation".
Profiles is good. It works. Leave it alone; I've got a lot of other "5-second" tasks to fill not enough time.
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
Of course the suggestion system doesn't work for you: trying to generate suggestions from a hodgepodge of two different peoples' tastes doesn't work.
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
Netflix is pretty obsessed with improving their recommendation system (or at least they act like they are with their prize and such). Won't this make that significantly more difficult? Sure a few people who use this feature will get separate accounts, but I'd be willing to bet the majority will either cancel or just make due with one account. Suddenly having 2 or 3 or more people's queues merged is going to make it a lot more difficult to figure out what individual people actually want and like.
Netflix drives me NUTS.
I can't find things without a lot of work, and I can NEVER be sure I've found everything. This, frankly, makes me mad.
Let's say you want a comedy from Thailand. You can search for Thai, you can search for Thailand, but if you search for both, it gives you all comedies AND all Thai movies. WELL THAT'S HELPFUL.
What about running time? I want a short movie. Nope. I want a G-rated movie. Nope. I want a movie that was added to their stock since April 8th, since that's the last time I checked all the new Thai comedies they got. Nope. I want an animated film in black and white. No way. I want to see only films which are not and have never been in my queue. Ha Ha! No.
Advanced search.
How long has their website been up and used, and yet still no advanced search? Long enough to mean it's not a "getting around to it" thing.
While it's not trivial to implement, it's not that hard, and they've had plenty of time to do it and yet they haven't done it.
It's clearly a business decision. They don't WANT us to be able to find what we want. They want us to follow a tree of behavior so they can predict usage/copies to own. They put us in a maze with a little cheese at the end and make US do the work.
This pisses me off.
This makes me angry.
The less able to find what I want I am, the less enthusiastic I am about Netflix, the longer the movies I do get languish, because I'm settling, rather than getting what I want, and HEY! the happier Netflix is.
Bastards.
Well, at least my Tivo doesn't think I'm gay.
I honestly didn't know the feature existed until today when I read the news that they were getting rid of profiles. It's always just been me on my Netflix account so I never had a need for profiles, but for couples and families I can see how this would be a great feature. I'm sure most of the commenters I've seen so far are right: NF is betting that most people will open a 2nd account and therefore give them more money. It's pretty shady of NF to do this. If I actually used the feature I would definitely cancel my account.
I'm not trying to troll here, but do people actually still go through all the trouble of ordering rental movies, waiting several days for the movies to arrive, and after watching packaging them again and sending them back? It's been so long since the last time rented an actual physical disc that I can't even remember.
:)
I never buy anything digitally though (not talking about renting here), because owning and/or having a license to a file on my computer doesn't feel like owning a product at all. Also, it's way too easy to lose a digital file. Whenever I buy something, I want a physical disc, be it program/game, movie or music. But even then I don't use the discs for anything, I usually don't even open the plastic wraps. I go to the internet, find an "official" scene release, use/watch/listen to that instead, and I don't feel bad about it because I own the original. In many cases the scene releases are already in a format I would convert the originals to anyway, so I don't have to go through all the trouble of converting everything myself, finding the optimal quality settings etc.
In the end, I never really touch the discs at all anymore, even though I want to have them. Maybe I'm just crazy?
My guess would be that this is DRM related. It probably became very difficult to limit or explain the limit per account. When little Johnny with a separate profile installed the Watch Now feature on 5 of his friends' computers then Dad would be upset with Netflix when he called up trying to make his new Roku work. Or worse, the profiles where allowing people to get around the Watch Now limits. I don't know what the limits are but you can bet that the movie studios require them. With Netflix's push into streamed content, anything that gets in the way is likely to be cannibalized.
I had netflix back when they first offered the service (about 8 years ago). I was a loyal customer for over two years until they changed their pricing scheme one day. They wanted 35% more for fewer discs than were included in my previous plan. I asked their customer service department how they justified forcing me to pay more for fewer rentals. They responded by saying that they didn't care and I could leave if I didn't like it.....and so I did. I don't believe the company cares too much about long term user retention. Their customer base is growing quickly, and they don't seem bothered by existing users that are less than fully satisfied. This may not be a problem for them in the short term, but is not sustainable in the long term. Look at Sprint.....another company notorious for the service they provide to existing customers.
And so can anyone in a management position at the US Post Office. Netflix is about to cancel their contract with USPS. They're doing this because QUEUES AND DISCS IN THE MAIL ARE GOING AWAY, TOO. You'll get a Netflix set-top box and will essentially watch streaming video on your television. http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/05/review-roku-net.html
I've been a Netflix subscriber for over four years and I've never used the profiles. I never saw a reason for them. But, in reading through the threads here, apparently they are widely used. (Even though I still don't understand why.)
Anyway, here's my theory. Netflix will bring the profiles back but charge a "nominal" fee each month for each profile. Like maybe 50 cents per month. Overtime the fee will be raised to actually increase Netflix's profits.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
I believe that 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease' - if Netflix hears from enough customers affected who truly love the profiles feature, they may reconsider killing it. Especially if those customers make it clear that they won't be ponying up for another subscription, and in fact, might reduce their subscription to a lower level.
Anyone know of any way to email Netflix support?
Of course you can, and I was exaggerating, but it would be nice to have an equal share at all times. Plus, Blockbuster is rather bad at sending the movie at the top of the queue, even if it is "Available."
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
Netflix actually loses money on accounts that return movies too quick. If eliminating profiles slows down the rate at which people return movies, then their margins go up. My guess is they found they weren't making any money off accounts that used profiles.
Netflix claims that only 2% of their users utilize multiple queues...and they also state that maintaining them is a burden.
2% usage? Man, I am consistently amazed at the ineptitude of the average consumer. This is a FANTASTIC feature...and I cannot imagine that the majority of Netflix customers who have more than one movie-watching individual in their household would not benefit.
My wife and I use it for my teenage daughter. We have a separate "one movie" queue for her that allows her to select her own movies...and manage that movie without interfering with our queue. We are never stuck in line behind her and vice versa. We have also defined her queue such that she can only add movies rated between G and PG-13.
I know other folks who use this feature so that husbands and wives (or boyfriends and girlfriends) have similar autonomy.
My wife and I have contacted NetFlix. I have also signed the petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/netflix0/petition.html)...but frankly, if we are only 2% of the population and maintenance for some odd reason (poor implementation perhaps?) is onerous, it may be to their benefit to take their chances and see if we will really jump. Dang, I am just amazed that more people do not see the benefit of these queues...but then again, probably only 2% of people did not have a blinking 12:00 on their VCRs when that technology ruled the family room.
Oh well, I really will go to Blockbuster if this occurs. The option of a brick and mortar rental for impulse viewing trumps NetFlix when they get rid of queues. I suppose NetFlix is focusing on online content delivery now...and they may just not care as much about silver disks at this point...even though they represent 99.99% of their business.
I'm paying $18.10 a month for you guys to drag your asses shipping me 3 DVDs a month. I know you do it on purpose too. It sometimes takes a full week to get a movie after I return one. Blockbuster's pricing is looking pretty good. I can get 3 at a time for $15.99 or I can get 2 at a time plus in-store exchanges for $16.99.
Way to screw your customers for no good reason.
Also, your silly Movies on demand stuff is worthless for multiple reasons. 1, you only put crappy movies on it, and 2, it only works with Windows...what are customers who use real operating systems like Linux, Mac OSX, or Solaris to do? I was looking for a reason to stop paying for Netflix after you made it clear you only cared about the moron customers who run Windows, you just gave me another reason.
Goodbye Netflix.
I've never taken a solid look at Netflix as an option for movie rentals. Actually, I don't remember the last time I rented a movie, but that's beside the point.
Having heard about this Profiles feature exclusively from this story, it sounds like a good reason to start renting movies. This story probably just advertised one of Netflix's best features. I'll bet Netflix will reverse this decision. Who knows? It could have been a strategic move. If Netflix does reverse the decision, I know I'll probably end up being a new customer just to make use of this feature (it would beat buying new movies, and our library runneth over, so we're running out of places to put the DVDs).
I really can't imagine a software department of a big corporation whining that something is too hard to implement or maintain.
Have you driven a fnord... lately?
You must wait a little bit before using this resource; please try again later.
My guess is that you are single.
I cannot understand how you cannot grasp why this matters.
I set up a queue, and then do not touch the Netflix website for months at a time. I have over 20 movies in my queue right now for example.
With profiles, my wife and I could have the same arrangement for each profile. We just set up our queues, and then don't think about it for months on end.
Now it might take only a few seconds to go and change the queue - but with no profiles we'll have to check the queue EVERY SINGLE TIME WE SEND BACK A MOVIE. It might take only a "few seconds" to reorder the queue. but it takes longer than than to go to a computer, fire up a browser, and go to Netflix to spend the few seconds. Even worse, you must remember to do this EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU SEND BACK A MOVIE.
What if every time you wanted to start your car, you had to sprint fifty feet away, press a series of buttons, then sprint back to your car? That would also only take a few seconds. Yet it would be annoying as hell. And for those of us who have figured out to have automation remove an area of attention in our lives, it's really annoying to think that we'll have to start constantly thinking about queue ordering EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU SEND BACK A MOVIE. If I have to do that, I might as well just go to Blockbuster where I also have to think each time I want a movie.
Another aspect you may not grasp is that two people watch movies at different rates. If we both watched movies with equal frequency we could, in theory, simply interleave placement in the queue. But this would not work as soon as one person sends back two movies while the other has not watched one.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I know I for one would recommend Netflix to anyone thinking about using it, because I really enjoyed features like Profiles.
But if Netflix is going to take away anything that makes it different from other services, I see no reason to continue to recommend it.
They may lose a lot more than just the smaller percentage of people that used this feature. They may lose a ton of future subscribers as people stop recommending them.
Any business would kill to have customers that are a champion for what you sell. And now Netflix is stomping all over the people that helped grow the service to what it is today.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I used to work at Netflix. I can tell you that profiles are used by a vanishingly small percentage of the customer base (albeit I predict it will be a rather vocal percentage) and cause a painful "How does new feature X work with a profile?" diversion for just about every product management cycle. In the end, the cost:benefit ratio is just too high.
I think the reduction of maintenance costs is minimal since the feature is already supported by their software & db. Keeping it going should be very small cost. Taking it out, in fact, will cost b/c they will have to test the changes to the system. Sounds to me like they want to encourage > 1 paying account per household, unfortunate.
Hurry up and increase your library size, because I'm canceling my Netflix at the end of August.
Should I keep going? Okay, I cheated and got The Crow from Google Sets :p
it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
* Sales department wants to see higher bars on 'accounts sold' chart
* Reduced code complexity - get rid of cases where code has to look for sub-accounts within account. When you forget that account sometimes is 1 account, sometimes many accounts, bugs creep in. It must be awful for reporting and data mining.
This announcement has had an immediate impact on my use of the service. I got notice this morning that they received my returns and that I could rate the returned selections. I cringed (in anger) and figured rating them would be completely pointless. There is no way their suggestion feature will even come close with three profiles rolled into one. The signal-to-noise ratio will be pathetic with the induced noise from my wife and kids profiles.
"Fix" one part of the service and break another. Oh, and piss off your customers too.
Perhaps some miracle movie selection algorithm has evolved from their netflix prize contest, requiring all movie ratings be rolled into one profile. (Yeah, right.)
Motivated by money? Surely. Careless with greed? Likely.
Just changed from $55 analog cable to $30 digital cable myself (TWC both times). Oh, and ditched AT&T DSL + Phone and got those from TWC too. That's $40/month saving.
As for the Netflix thing, I didn't even know the profiles thing exist, and would not likely have used it had I done so. I suspect that apart from getting people to have multiple accounts, there's some other as yet unguessed feature they'll roll out. We'll see - I still think that 6-7 DVDs/month + unlimited online viewing (even if it doesn't work in Linux, grrr) for $9.60 is exceptional value.
what i'm failing to understand here is what maintenance costs are there to be reduced? i mean, the code's already written, it's been developed & deployed...so what costs do multiple profiles impose?
ed
There are so many flaming posts here about how much netflix sucks and how many features it lacks, etc. etc. etc.
My wife and I have been using netflix since December of 2002. We both share the same queue, and have slightly different tastes in movies. We have not had a single problem or complaint about netflix since day one (except for 2 or 3 bad discs out of 400+). We have over 200 movies in our queue at any given moment. Every few weeks we log in and do a little rearranging to make sure we don't get a big block of serious films or something. Other than that: zero problems. We've never even considered using any of the extraneous features on the site, who needs the hassle of learning all that crap?
Are we alone here?
See, this is a big difference between Blockbuster and Netflix. I've been with Netflix for about a year on the 2-at-a-time plan, and have NEVER gotten anything but the movie at the top of the queue. True, I don't often put major recent movies on my queue, so those might get bumped occasionally. But a friend of mine was complaining that he had the full series of The Prisoner in his queue, and one of the discs had been at the top for months, claiming to be available but never getting shipped. This kind of thing just doesn't happen with Netflix.
Personally, I didn't even know the Profiles feature existed. I control Netflix, and my husband is only here on weekends b/c of work, so I have to make sure we've got ST:TNG or BSG on the weekends to watch together and then I can watch House and Scrubs myself during the week. It hasn't been that hard to maintain the queue. If I never knew whether I'd be getting the video in the #1 or #2 spot, it'd be a lot harder.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
If you're pissed about this like I am, then give them a call. Explain to them that you find this feature extremely useful (or even necessary for your continued use of their service) and the removal of the feature will likely result in you leaving their service. I called last night, and the CSR I spoke to said that she was upset about the removal of the feature as well, it was something she used.
1-888-638-3549
The FAQ entry about this is at http://www.netflix.com/Help?p_faqid=3962
If you hit that link while logged into your Netflix account, it will show your customer ID, which you can enter while calling.
It's enough to make me drink till I drive.
Multiple accounts isn't working for me...or many others who use queues for their children. I can now create a profile for my child that only allows her to rent movies listed at a certain rating or below. NetFlix labels this attribute "maturity rating." A dedicated (more expensive) account for each child isn't cutting it for many of us...especially since it also gives the child access to account management settings.
I just called and spoke to a very nice woman named Wendy. She seemed really worn down... The party line is that their customer base has grown so big that profiles aren't scaling very well and that they think they can provide faster service without this feature. I told her that they might not have the 'big customer base' problem much longer. Too bad, I've been really happy with this service til now, but this is one of the most bone-headed decisions I've seen in a while.
I was just about to post about this - this makes me FURIOUS. The profiles are a godsend - my wife and I have 3 queues, one for movies, one for a TV series we are watching and one for my trashy action tv series I watch.
It was a nightmare to manage these before, as you constantly had to interleaf the TV shows. Frankly I have NO idea how it improves the Netflix Service - in fact it will make it worse I'd say, as they wont be able to predict what I will do so easily - as it stands I barely Queue anything now - I set up say Veronica Mars seasons, and leave it alone.
So WHAT THE F*CK Netflix? Yes I'm using my real name, I am one PISSED off customer. I dont usually chose to threaten action, but if this goes through I am simply going to go to 2 movies at a time, because frankly,I cant be bothered to manage 3 simulatanously.
Good job, hope your stock falls through the floor.
Winton
September 1st, 2008: The day the movies died...
If enough people complain they might change their mind
I already email their customer service and investor relations
An online petition is already available, with signees agreeing to either move to a cheaper plan, put their account on hold, or cancel their accounts entirely. Netflix must be banking that the improvements to its web site will offset the ill will and lost subscribers that this news has engendered. Let's get our derrieres in gear and sign this petition. So far there are only 462 signatures collected. I'm sure that we can do better than that.
To spot the expert, pick the one who predicts the job will take the longest and cost the most.
This is a shame; I was just thinking the other day that such a feature would be useful, and here they go.
They should consider doing one of two things:
1) Keep the Profiles option, but charge a fee for it to recoup whatever added expense exists. Make it cheaper than getting two separate accounts, but not quite as expensive.
2) Give a small discount when you have more than one account set up to the same address.
I sent them some feedback saying I will miss the feature and hoping they'll reconsider. If enough people do the same, maybe they'll decide not to kill it.
To send them feedback, I followed the "contact us" link at the bottom of their homepage, went to "suggestions", and wrote them a quick, but polite, note about how I will miss this feature.
I gave my daughter her own queue for her birthday. And now Netflix is taking it away. Good thing I didn't get her a pony or Netflix would probably come shoot it in the head.
But seriously, 1%? Most of the people I know use these things to separate their queue from their significant other or their kids. The 1% number makes no sense.
I live alone, but I maintain 3 profiles. One for TV shows, 1 for movies, and 1 for the occasional house-guest to use. Typically, I have it set so I have 2 TV show discs and 1 movie disc at a time but it fluctuates based on my mood. I only turn on the house-guest account when someone's going to visit, and it's been extremely convenient to offer them a way to log in, browse the selection and choose their own movies without messing up my queues.
I don't rent enough to justify a second account. To me, the benefits of the profiles are huge. So much so, that I'd be willing to pay a few extra bucks a month to keep it.
Even though they've said the decision is final, I suggest commenting directly on the Netflix blog post as hundreds of others are doing...
http://www.petitiononline.com/netflix0/petition-sign.html
I have Netflix and I use a second profile to partition my queue by movie genre. I have to say, I cheered when the feature was introduced, but it was never well implemented. Switching from the alt back to the main account, I have to reenter my password. There's no way to send movies from one queue to the other. It's basically a whole second account that is loosely tied to my main account.
If killing off this half-baked feature makes it possible for Netflix to come back in 6 or 9 months with a replacement DONE RIGHT, then I'd call it a big win for all concerned.
I was blown away when I got the email about this feature being removed... It's such a great feature, why remove it?! Are there patents on queuing or something?
I love that feature! Arg.
...is that this is a PR stunt (advertising without spending money).
When looking through the data for the Netflix Challenge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netflix_Prize, it has become apparent that many of the userIDs are more than one user. The same person who is watching horror films is probably not the same person renting the Teletubbies.
By "taking away" (wink wink) the feature, and having tons of people freak out about how a cool feature is being removed - Netflix gets free advertising.
Outcome? More people use the feature.
The only way Netflix can get away with such a downgrade in service is that they've calculated the number of people that actually utilize that service and use that number to estimate the impact on general customer satisfaction and attrition - apparently it is a small percentage of users that employ multiple profiles. This is not surprising, most users probably have no idea how to set up multiple profiles and may be intimated by the added layer of complexity. The /. cohort represents a heavily biased but likely very small proportion of power-users that enjoy the profiles feature (I sure do!/did). There are a lot of insightful comments on this post, but I wonder if we're also taking the time to be as (if not more) outspoken where it matters. We're clearly a small cog in the Netflix machine, but perhaps if we squeak loudly enough we'll garner some attention.
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You can also call us at 1-877-638-3549 so that we may assist you. We can be reached 7 days a week. We can be reached 7 days a week from 7:00 AM to 12:00 AM Eastern Time.
Have your customer number handy. There is a "click here" link to get it at the bottom of the NetFlix page.
We can write a paper letter to:
NetFlix
100 Winchester Circle
Los Gatos CA 95032
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
I have been a netflix subscriber since 99 (yes I have been paying them monthly for 9 years... scary) and I have never been this pissed.
I have my queue, my wife has hers and my kids have another. All of us are very upset. My wife was able to manage her own movies and get new ones when necessary, I wasn't continually bugged by my kids to watch a movie I was holding on to, so that they could get the next kids movie they wanted, and I was able to rate my movies without worrying that it would influence the suggestions for the others.
This is a HUGE failure in customer service for netflix, and I have never considered leaving before. Their service will be so much less functional for us in the future. We will be back to the old days, which admittedly were good then, but this will be a feature we will really miss.
Really mad at Netflix.
Geez, I didn't even know this feature was an option. I wish I had, it would have been nice to have my wife get her own queue so I didn't constantly get a copy of Desperate Housewives - Season 1 when I was expecting to watch Firefly for the 89th time.
Movie [Profile]
...
Star Wars [Dad]
27 Dresses [Mom]
3:10 to Yuma [Dad]
Nemo [Kid]
When Netflix gets a movie back, it determines which profile that movie came from. It the ships out the next movie with that same profile. So when "Star Wars" comes back, the next movie to ship is "3:10 to Yuma".
This doesn't solve the problem of all the recommendations being mixed together, but it does save the functionality of many people sharing the same queue.
Netflix says unlimited in the number of times you can return the movie for a new one, but the speed of the post office puts a practical limitation on that. Where does Netflix commit to a turn around time they are not meeting?
I think the more appropriate discussion is by how much are they delaying your TAT and is that a reasonable amount based on how fast you return and what you pay? Twenty four hours extra TAT when you are viewing 21 movies a month for $20 on a 3 a month plan seems reasonable to me. You are probably costing Netflix more than your monthly fee with post office and movie studio fees, not to mention their administrative costs.
I have 2 a month agreement for $15 and I'm lucky if I get them returned fast enough to see 6 movies. I don't want to subsidize your movie addiction any more than I already do. And I appreciate Netflix gives me some queue and processing time priority over you when I do return movies, since I do it infrequently and I am such a good customer for them.
What would be really interesting is if Netflix uses heavy renters to subsidize catalog balancing between its warehouses. Say Dallas has lots of 'Back to the Future' and The Valley needs more. When Mr Heavyrenter in The Valley rents 'Back to the Future' it gets sent from Dallas knowing that will slow Heavyrenter down, and it will get returned to The Valley warehouse.
I mean if they really wanted to provide the level of customer satisfaction this move is aiming for, why not go the whole 10 yards!
I always thought that the profiles feature was in preparation for Netflix to introduce video games and porn. maybe they have finally decided that they will never offer games and porn, so they are now discontinuing the code base.
I tried one of these deals with Blockbuster, and quit b/c of the extreme annoyance at missing the end of movies due to a scratch. Is everyone else having the same issues? I mean, that happened to me several times... and personally twice is too much. So i quit the service and won't go back until I find out some fool proof way things won't be scratched.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
If this many people are really upset over this and Netflix does not seem to care, tell them with your loudest possible voice: your money.
I am not saying everyone should up and leave Netflix forever, but cancel it for a month or two. Maybe even use that time to try out a competitor you've wondered about.
I'm sure even if only 1% of their users used this feature, if they all up and left for a month or two that would make a pretty loud statement.
The same day as the notice, an internet petition to save the profiles feature has 900+ signatures! If you're pissed, add your name to the list:
http://www.petitiononline.com/netflix0/petition.html
Also, don't forget to send Netflix a personal "suggestion" letting them know just how upset you are by this supposed "improved customer experience:"
http://www.netflix.com/Suggest?type=2&lnkctr=cu_suggest
I agree, it doesn't make sense to have multiple accounts when you really just want to have multiple queues.
I'd love to setup 4 queues - Adult, Kid 1, Kid 2, and Just for me. There are discs my wife and I watch together, discs the younger and older kids each watch separately, and discs that only interest me. I'd love to set Queues 1,2 and 3 to round-robin upon return, and Queue 4 on hold until I manually release (when they go visit the in-laws I get to watch old movies and IMAX).
The current implementation would have me signing in and out all the time so I just don't use it, but that means I need to sort my One Big Queue manually, which isn't a task that humans are better at than computers.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
http://www.savenetflixprofiles.com/
Your catalog balancing idea is interesting, but aren't the return addresses preprinted on the red envelopes? I sure think they are. (Obviously *your* address is on a sticky.)
Really, it shouldn't be hard to manage multiple "sub-accounts" anyone with any database knowledge could tell you that, it may take a couples extra miliseconds to pull from the database, but really loose the ugly interface (which slows it down more than any database) and you'll be golden, my "new releases" are almost always mostly old, I was on the fence to leave from this alone, I called customer service and they told me to look at other websites to find a movie then search for it on Netflix!!! haha I told them why don't I just find/rent elsewhere, and if this happens I guarantee I'll be going elsewhere, not sure if there is another option except BlockBuster, but hey I'll go to whoever wants to treat me as if they care about the customer!
The CHEAPEST plan is the 1-at-a-time for $4.99. Your credit card will be billed for a higher amount if you use the other plans.
You could argue that another plan is a better value but cheapest? Use common sense!
I used the profiles to set up 2 queues. 1 so I could rent movies and the other with 2 TV show discs at a time. That way I didn't have to do the constant interleaving of the movies and TV shows so I didn't accidentally get 4 movies or 4 TV discs at once. Now I'll have to constantly manage my queue again. Thanks, that's a real bonus. Its so bonusy that I may have to go to Blockbuster instead...
I'd be happier if they made it so I could watch movies online with my Mac. Requiring Windows Media Player is a big disappointment since I can watch media on ComedyCentral.com, AdultSwim.com, Nick.com, and YouTube.
But my wife is ticked about having to share a queue with me again.
Sign the Petition to keep them: http://www.petitiononline.com/netflix0/petition.html
I took the time to call them and the reason I was given was their weekly updates were taking 3-4 hours instead of 15-30 minutes. So basically they have shit code and rather than fix it, they're making the problem go away. NICE!
My family will also suffer due to this change. We rent 4 at a time, with 4 separate queues. Yes, the rate of returns that varies among my family could be offset by manually adjusting the queue each time, but this inconvenience shouldn't even be happening.
More importantly, and what many posters seem unable to grasp, is my 24 year old, my 15 year old, my wife, and I have widely varying tastes in movies. The recommendations will cease to be relevant, and yet this very feature is what they are offering a prize for improving.
My suggestion? If they insist on forcing this change down our throats, lets force one down theirs: After the change occurs, continue to use the recommendation feature sparingly. BUT, even if it recommends a movie you decide to rent, and you enjoy it, give it the worst possible rating you can. This would trhow their recommendation system into total disarray, as they'd no longer be able to tout the accuracy of their all-important feature.
Show netflix and the world how you really feel! Spread the word!