Microsoft Woos Developers Under the Silverlight

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Microsoft Woos Developers Under the Silverlight

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Monday October 13, 2008 @08:15AM from the go-on-start-wooing dept.

CWmike writes to tell us that with the impending release of their Silverlight 2.0 product, Microsoft is poised to enact the next phase of their plan, wooing developers and designers directly. Microsoft is funding a French open-source project designed to allow programmers to utilize the Eclipse framework to build Silverlight apps. "Microsoft is also releasing for free a set of programming templates called the Silverlight Control Pack under its Microsoft Permissive License, as well as the technical specification for Silverlight's Extensible Application Markup Language (XAML) vocabulary via Microsoft's Open Specification Promise. The latter, said Goldfarb, should make it easier for would-be Silverlight developers."

300 comments

Min score:

Reason:

Sort:

An Even Shorter Summary by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 08:19 · Score: 5, Funny

The important parts of the summary:
Microsoft ... Developers ... ... developers ... ... developers.
1. Re:An Even Shorter Summary by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 08:26 · Score: 0
  
  Sort of reminds me of the Wizard of Oz, with the munchkins chanting "Follow the yellow brick road!", but this time, it's "Developers? Developers. *high squeaky voice* Developers? *low Barry White voice* Developers!"
2. Re:An Even Shorter Summary by Xaemyl · 2008-10-13 08:31 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  Microsoft ... Developers ... ... developers ... ... developers. *throws chairs*
  There. Fixed that for you.
3. Re:An Even Shorter Summary by Captain+Spam · 2008-10-13 08:56 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Ballmer: "Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale Silverlight?"
  
  --
  Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
4. Re:An Even Shorter Summary by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 10:01 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  I have never danced with Ballmer. I have only been screwed by Microsoft (it hurt).
  So no, I have not danced with the devil in the pale Silverlight.
5. Re:An Even Shorter Summary by CheeseTroll · 2008-10-13 14:16 · Score: 1
  
  Oh lord, is he writing song lyrics now, too?
  
  --
  A post a day keeps productivity at bay.
6. Re:An Even Shorter Summary by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 18:05 · Score: 0
  
  Only if they have chairs that he can throw!!
7. Re:An Even Shorter Summary by jez9999 · 2008-10-14 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  I.... LOVVVE.... THIIIIS.... COMPANYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
  (Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING. well duh.)
  (Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING. well duh.)
  
  --
  == Jez ==
  Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
8. Re:An Even Shorter Summary by triso · 2008-10-14 08:07 · Score: 1
  
  I have never danced with Ballmer. I have only been screwed by Microsoft (it hurt). [...]
  That's what you get for skipping foreplay.
Great news by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 08:19 · Score: 0

I'm a PC
1. Re:Great news by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-15 17:05 · Score: 0
  
  I'm a DCI, myself. I hope to make Superintendent next year.
While I don't like Flash. by LWATCDR · 2008-10-13 08:20 · Score: 5, Insightful

Flash is multi platfrom and there is GASH as an option.
I also trust Adobe to be OS neutral a lot more than Microsoft.
99% of our your users already have Flash so why make them download and install Silverlight.

--
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
1. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 08:26 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  But your forgetting... Silverlight is.. awesomer than Flash!
  Credit
2. Re:While I don't like Flash. by kestasjk · 2008-10-13 08:32 · Score: 0
  
  I like Eclipse, and can't build Flash apps using it. I think Microsoft are making a good move here, hopefully they'll get it right where Java applets have got it so wrong (despite a 10 year head start).
  
  --
  // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
3. Re:While I don't like Flash. by LWATCDR · 2008-10-13 08:34 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Too bad applets got such a bad rap. They actually work very well now and are fast and powerful.
  
  --
  See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
4. Re:While I don't like Flash. by lenkyl · 2008-10-13 08:35 · Score: 1
  
  http://fdt.powerflasher.com/
  though not cheap, the fdt plugin allows flash development in eclipse. when coupled with mxmlc or mtasc you have everything you need to develop swfs in eclipse.
5. Re:While I don't like Flash. by thetoadwarrior · 2008-10-13 08:42 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I agree, Applets aren't that bad but it may take awhile to get people to forget all those horrible java applets people used to put on their ugly sites. One of my favourites at the moment is Wordle. http://wordle.net/
6. Re:While I don't like Flash. by TheRealMindChild · 2008-10-13 08:48 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  You do realize that is the same twisted logic that caused a lot of the internet to be IE only?
  
  99% of our your users already have IE so why make this work with Mozilla
  
  Same trap. Just a different beast.
  
  --
  
  "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
7. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Tom · 2008-10-13 08:53 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  so why make them download and install Silverlight.
  Because you can.
  Seriously, a lot of things with MS are just power games. The MS keys on your keyboard are an example. By my best estimate, about 1% of users ever use them for anything not an accident.
  
  --
  Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
8. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 09:00 · Score: 0
  
  99% of our your users already have Flash so why make them download and install Silverlight.
  But it's free! ... not like free beer, more like free crack-pipe
9. Re:While I don't like Flash. by aztracker1 · 2008-10-13 09:02 · Score: 0
  
  Novel's Moonlight (FOSS Silverlight) is a better option to GASH, and works pretty well... MS has dedicated efforts to helping Novel in this. Personally, I think flash is better for quite a few things (animation, eLearning)... Silverlight is nicer for creating richer client apps with. They're about a draw when it comes to video playback, though Flash does have a ton more market share.
  
  I agree wrt not trusting MS to keep an OS-neutral stance... but having met quite a few of the developers in the ASP.Net side of things (MVC), and Silverlight 2, I can say that they (the developers) are perfectly happy seeing support in other OSes. MS supports windows, and osx. Novel supports Linux, with ports to other *nix oses.
  
  --
  Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
10. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 09:03 · Score: 0
  
  Flash is multi platfrom and there is GASH as an option.
  And I thought that "GIMP" was a dodgy acronym...
  Did you mean GNASH?
11. Re:While I don't like Flash. by aztracker1 · 2008-10-13 09:03 · Score: 1
  
  Grr.. gnash...
  
  --
  Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
12. Re:While I don't like Flash. by gaspyy · 2008-10-13 09:05 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Actually you can build flash apps without Flash.
  Flex SDK is free and allows you to compile Flash, Flex and AIR apps.
  FDT is not free but it's very very good (uses Flex). If you think it's not worth the money, you can write your own Eclipse plugin.
  There are a number of other options, like FlasDevelop or MTASC, which although not Eclipse-based, are free alternatives.
13. Re:While I don't like Flash. by bignetbuy · 2008-10-13 09:07 · Score: 0, Flamebait
  
  Boo hoo. I have to point, click, and install. Woe is me. A whole 1.5mins of my life wasted so the remaining 33% of it spent on-line can enjoy a better browsing experience.
  /sarcasm
14. Re:While I don't like Flash. by eggnet · 2008-10-13 09:08 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  You can build Flash apps using the Flex SDK in any IDE you want.
  Also, Flex Builder from Adobe is based on eclipse.
  http://www.adobe.com/products/flex/features/flex_builder/
15. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 09:16 · Score: 0
  
  pulpcore is the best java widget framework out there, but there are still a ton of browser quirks with java, FF, IE, Opera, Safari, etc... especially when dealing with JS-Java and Java-JS communication.
  In my experiance Flash is way more cross platform, and Flash10 supports most of what java had to offer like local file access and gpu accellerated 3d now.
  until java installs without having to restart your browser, and is under a 4mb install, starts immediately, and does not require a redraw everytime it moves, Java still deserves a bad rap.
16. Re:While I don't like Flash. by bheer · 2008-10-13 09:18 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  > when coupled with mxmlc or mtasc you have everything you need to develop swfs in eclipse.
  Dude, you probably have some keys stuck on your keyboard or something :-)
  
  --
  Go somewhere random
17. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 09:20 · Score: 0
  
  I use Eclipse to make Flash apps all the time; with the Flex Builder eclipse plugin.
18. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 09:35 · Score: 0
  
  Deservedly so. Loading a 20mb over-engineered framework with non-standard UI components just to show scrolling text? Lame. I always knew exactly when a page used Java because I'd hear the disk thrashing unnecessarily.
19. Re:While I don't like Flash. by houghi · 2008-10-13 09:37 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  http://wordle.net/gallery/wrdl/246288/slashdot
  Did not work in Firefox, but worked in Konqueror
  
  --
  Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
20. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Fulcrum+of+Evil · 2008-10-13 09:38 · Score: 1
  
  last I looked, it was down to 80%. Anyway, that sort attitude leads to your site being IE6 only, as you just throw any old thing in without any thought to portability.
  
  --
  "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
21. Re:While I don't like Flash. by PitaBred · 2008-10-13 09:41 · Score: 1
  
  That's a strawman. Flash is available to everyone pretty much equally, whereas IE is not. It's not a "trap", it's just good sense. Silverlight has yet to show it's face on Linux or Mac. That means that Flash is still a much better choice if you're going to attempt to reach a broad audience.
  
  --
  My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
22. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 09:50 · Score: 0
  
  I do use them. Win + D gets me right to desktop.
  Although they're labaled Cmd on this Apple keyboard.
23. Re:While I don't like Flash. by StatusWoe · 2008-10-13 10:00 · Score: 1
  
  I like Eclipse, and can't build Flash apps using it.
  
  Well, Flexbuilder (Adobe's big RIA flash toolset) is an Eclipse plugin. It's not free, but the sdk is, and you can get AS3 syntax highlighters.
  And if you're a big Java guy, there is even a very functional Maven mojo for flex.
  
  --
  "drink deeply the illusion of your safety"
24. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 10:04 · Score: 0
  
  Flash is multi platfrom and there is GASH as an option.
  And I thought that "GIMP" was a dodgy acronym...
  Did you mean GNASH?
  No, he meant GASH. The chicks dig Flash, haven't you heard?
25. Re:While I don't like Flash. by abdulla · 2008-10-13 10:04 · Score: 1
  
  There is Moonlight. In the end I'd rather none of these plugins, but if I have to choose, my preference is Flash. Adobe have shown support for multiple platforms, while Microsoft is pretty much delegating that to Mono, which is perpetually playing catch-up.
26. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 10:07 · Score: 0
  
  Another important thing to note is that some of this stuff is released under the Microsoft Permissive License - now, I know the Microsoft Limited Permissive License restricts you to developing only for Windows, but can anyone shed some light on the MPL? That would be a huge deal breaker for a lot of people.
27. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 10:12 · Score: 0
  
  I use it constantly. The [Windows-key] + R to open a Run dialog is great.
28. Re:While I don't like Flash. by ignavus · 2008-10-13 10:27 · Score: 1
  
  I also trust Adobe not to be Microsoft far more than I trust Microsoft not to be Microsoft.
  We need competition - not an abusive monopolist with *even more* market power.
  I don't care how good Silverlight is, Microsoft must be split up before it is even safe to think about such technology in their hands.
  Forget the technology folks, this is ALL about market power.
  
  --
  I am anarch of all I survey.
29. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 10:29 · Score: 0
  
  I dunno about that - I pretty commonly used Windows-R in windows before Vista, and now just hitting the windows key and typing the first two or three letters of the program I want to run is actually a pretty common experience. I wouldn't doubt that there are many other people who have used the windows key for either of these functions.
30. Re:While I don't like Flash. by larry+bagina · 2008-10-13 10:32 · Score: 1
  
  Not that any of the developers would know it, but gash is a slang term for pussy.
  
  --
  Do you even lift?
  These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
31. Re:While I don't like Flash. by biovoid · 2008-10-13 10:38 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Flex Builder from Adobe is based on Eclipse! You can install it as a plugin into an existing Eclipse install, or install the stand-alone version. The open-source Flex SDK and compiler are both free if you don't want to shell out for Flex Builder.
  There's FDT, another Eclipse Plugin for Flash/Flex development.
  There are also completely open-source options for developing Flash/Flex content, in Eclipse, or the IDE of your choice. Windows, Mac or Linux.
  I haven't touched the Flash IDE for the last four years.
32. Re:While I don't like Flash. by JCSoRocks · 2008-10-13 10:39 · Score: 1
  Windows key commands are great -
  
  Win-E for opening up a file explorer.
  Win-M for minimizing everything.
  Win-Shift-M to restore everything.
  Win-Tab / Win-shit-tab lets you go through the items on your taskbar like you would with alt-tab.
  The others that I use like Win-R, etc have already been listed. I'm not saying I think it's the best invention ever, those obviously could have been implemented other ways, just that it's not useless.
  --
  You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
33. Re:While I don't like Flash. by JCSoRocks · 2008-10-13 10:42 · Score: 0
  
  Flash is multi platfrom...
  I think there's a common misconception about Silverlight not being multiplatform... I haven't tried it on Mac but I've heard it works. I've also run it in FireFox quite a few times without any trouble. Personally I'm just happy to see Flash get a little competition.
  
  --
  You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
34. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 10:57 · Score: 0
  
  I think you can create Flash apps using Flex (an Adobe Eclipse addin). Not sure about the cost.
35. Re:While I don't like Flash. by dugjohnson · 2008-10-13 11:00 · Score: 1
  
  <quote>I like Eclipse, and can't build Flash apps using it.</quote> Why not? Flex Builder is based on Eclipse and if you already HAVE Eclipse, you can get the plug-in version.
  
  --
  My brain is overly lubricated
36. Re:While I don't like Flash. by markdavis · 2008-10-13 11:06 · Score: 1
  
  Moonlight is hardly a solution. It is complex, incompatible, slow, and will lag waaaaaay behind any current development. People who suggest that as a "solution" to Silverlight for non-MS platforms need to be slapped around a bit.
  As far as most non-MS users are concerned, Silverlight is evil and definitely "itsatrap". Flash is evil too, but on an evilness scale of 1-10 in the "real world", Flash is probably a 5, where Silverlight is a 10.
37. Re:While I don't like Flash. by thetoadwarrior · 2008-10-13 11:07 · Score: 1
  
  Odd, I only use FireFox but maybe I've been lucky.
38. Re:While I don't like Flash. by lord_sarpedon · 2008-10-13 11:34 · Score: 1
  
  Why did they have to break applet security?
  We know that the java security features can handle this - but the browser plugin is simple retarded. You can't really request just the permissions you want, and the user cant fine-tune this if they feel like it. (And it's really, really slow)
  Go ahead, try running an applet which pops a security warning. You can press ok, which gives it _full permissions_, or you can press _cancel_, in which it _loads anyway, sandboxed_. How does this make any sense? I can't believe we haven't seen more attacks using applets these days...
  
  --
  "Strangers have the best candy" -Me
39. Re:While I don't like Flash. by LWATCDR · 2008-10-13 12:09 · Score: 1
  
  You really should look back a few posts.
  I was saying that one of the things about Silverlight I don't like is everybody needs to download and install it while most people have Flash.
  I think you should make websites work for as many people as possible. Coding just for IE or Firefox is counter productive to that goal. Same as using Silverlight.
  Actually I code for Firefox then patch for IE usually.
  
  --
  See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
40. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Fulcrum+of+Evil · 2008-10-13 12:23 · Score: 1
  
  That's not a valid objection, as you have to download flash too, or have you not noticed everyone going to flash 9 for no particular reason?
  
  --
  "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
41. Re:While I don't like Flash. by digitalgiblet · 2008-10-13 13:00 · Score: 1
  
  PLEASE tell my you meant Win-shiFt-tab...
42. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 13:08 · Score: 0
  
  Silverlight will be great for .net developers building back offices and tools very quickly. Flash / Flex will continue to reign supreme whenever designers are involved. My personal favorite is flash / flex front ends glued to WebOrb that connects to our back end .net layer.
  As much as Microsoft might like to believe they are going head to head against flash, this simply isn't the case. Let both live and thrive where applicable.
43. Re:While I don't like Flash. by windsurfer619 · 2008-10-13 14:11 · Score: 1
  
  You know, I went looking for the plugin for linux, but I couldn't find it. Could you link to the download?
44. Re:While I don't like Flash. by rtb61 · 2008-10-13 14:17 · Score: 0
  
  The catch being, that people have become accustomed to flash so they accept it. Also as for developers, to make a transition to silverfish, they would have to pay the costs of developing for both platforms, and web designers would have to code for both platforms and companies would have to pay those costs, else the end users are just as likely to skip the additional download and go to a competing web site. For anything to replace flash it has to be FOSS ie. produce a real genuine long term saving to cover the cost of transition.
  What is funny about all this is M$ re-writing history, even recent history, by calling this stage 2. You see they were not really 'serious' about selling silverfish in stage 1, so they haven't failed, it was all just a big hyuck, now they are really serious, well at least until stage 3. When they will be really truly serious about selling silverfish, rather than stage 1 - the intro, stage 2 - the clarification, it's all about the developers, stage 3 - Seinfeld and Gates make a comeback ;D.
  
  --
  Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
45. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Fulcrum+of+Evil · 2008-10-13 15:02 · Score: 1
  
  I thought SL1.0 was about getting the name out - you can say 'we were here in 2007' or some such. Anyway, I'm in the position of not liking either option - I use linux and FF and I really hate having to deal with flash or broken webapps that only work with IE (I work at a MS shop now, so that should be expected...) - I just want decent html apps that work with most stuff.
  
  --
  "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
46. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 15:14 · Score: 0
  
  Because Silverlight doesn't add anything decent just traps you into a proprietary mess
47. Re:While I don't like Flash. by shermo · 2008-10-13 15:27 · Score: 1
  
  And? You're the 1%
  I don't use them and, since I'm the most computer literate, I'd be suprised if anyone in my (admitedly smallish) company uses them.
  
  --
  Insanity: voting in the same two parties over and over again and expecting different results
48. Re:While I don't like Flash. by mcrbids · 2008-10-13 16:03 · Score: 1
  
  Seriously, a lot of things with MS are just power games. The MS keys on your keyboard are an example. By my best estimate, about 1% of users ever use them for anything not an accident.
  Actually, I find them quite useful. When I plug my Microsoft keyboard into my Mac Mini, the MS keys work the same as the "Apple" key. For this, they are quite useful. Otherwise, they're just a sorry way to bring up the start menu, which any moron would use the mouse for since navigating the start menu by keyboard is so horrendous...
  Thanks Microsoft!
  
  --
  I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
49. Re:While I don't like Flash. by KGIII · 2008-10-13 16:22 · Score: 1
  
  I use it and well, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense but...
  This is my fourth most popular page on this site:
  http://kgiii.info/windows/all/general/winkey.html
  Interestingly this is in the top ten:
  http://kgiii.info/windows/XP/general/xp_run_commands.html
  The site is not that popular, doing only a couple GBs of bandwidth per month so it isn't as if this is much to go on really.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
50. Re:While I don't like Flash. by ozphx · 2008-10-13 16:57 · Score: 1
  
  One of the benefits of Silverlight is that the view/controller is seperated enough that you can trust the designer to have SVN access and not bugger anything up :P
  They can fiddle around with Expression (or whatever its called) - making the UI look nice, and I can concentrate on exposing properties for databinding.
  
  --
  3laws: No freebies, no backsies, GTFO.
51. Re:While I don't like Flash. by sw155kn1f3 · 2008-10-13 20:14 · Score: 1
  
  Try to press "Start" button and navigate to start menu at the same time with your mouse. Makes everything way faster. Kind of like instant-key toolbar. I guess it's intended to be this way.
  
  --
  - Arwen, I'm your father, Agent Smith.
  - Well, you're just Smith, but my father is Aerosmith!
52. Re:While I don't like Flash. by supernova_hq · 2008-10-13 20:38 · Score: 1
  
  I for one believe flash to be the worst thing to EVER happen to the internet. ANYTHING that can be done with flash can be done using embed tags, css and javascript. The fact that I have to load a flash plugin just to watch a freaking video when there is a perfectly good, yet unused, embed tag is mind boggling!
  Over the years I have learned to live with flash videos, but if I come across a website where all I see is a giant white box with a small play button (I have flashblock), i hit the close button.
53. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 21:25 · Score: 0
  
  Adobe hasn't updated Flash Player in a long time. They don't even offer a 64-bit version.
  From the way things are going, I think that common and standard web technologies will be the death of proprietary formats like Flash and Silverlight. With XML/XHTML, XSLT/CSS, JavaScript and SVG you can do just about anything.
54. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Saint+Gerbil · 2008-10-13 21:35 · Score: 1
  
  Bizzare how you seem to take flashes history in the same way. Flash 1 had almost no impact, Flash 2 not a lot, Flash 3 was when it started to pick and and it was on flash 4 before it became even close to accepted. Your Silverlight knowledge seems ify too. There is Silverlight 1.0, 1.1 and now 2.0 so really its stage 3 already.
55. Re:While I don't like Flash. by davedx · 2008-10-13 21:36 · Score: 1
  
  One reason, actually: MultiScaleImage.
  
  --
  "This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time."
56. Re:While I don't like Flash. by electrictroy · 2008-10-13 23:12 · Score: 1
  
  I prefer whatever CW television uses. It has the ability to dynamically alter the bitrate from wideband to 128 kbit/s. When I watching the Olympics via Silverlight, it lacked that capability and often paused playback (extremely frustrating).
  
  --
  The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
57. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 23:27 · Score: 0
  
  Nobody in the real world gives a fuck about you.
  Because its a subset of .NET , arguably the most popular 'platform' , Silverlight is going to enjoy a bigger developer audience than flash. Although I hate installing all the crappy plugins just to get sites to work, this might be worth it.
  -
  As usual linux users forget their place...
  O - is the desktop market share pie.
  . - is linux.
  I wonder if thats what slashdot is all about. / is the windows market share, rising all the time, . is the linux platform.. stuck underneath the /.
  First the master eats, then the servant, then the dog. Linux is the dog here.
  2009 Year of the desktop? /laugh...
58. Re:While I don't like Flash. by LWATCDR · 2008-10-14 01:18 · Score: 1
  
  Except that most people already have downloaded flash. Plus Flash is available for Windows, Mac, Linux, and even the Wii.
  
  --
  See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
59. Re:While I don't like Flash. by mrjohnson · 2008-10-14 02:36 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, my favorite is from here:
  http://anirudhs.chaosnet.org/blog/2008.03.26.html
60. Re:While I don't like Flash. by ravenlock · 2008-10-14 02:37 · Score: 1
  
  Silverlight 2 is Silverlight 1.1, re-branded.
61. Re:While I don't like Flash. by danwesnor · 2008-10-14 03:04 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, it only to 2 years to get a version of Shockwave that didn't require Intel Mac users to run their browser in the (much slower) PowerPPC mode.
62. Re:While I don't like Flash. by daninbusiness · 2008-10-14 03:49 · Score: 1
  
  Silverlight does not work on PowerPC based macs. Such computers were sold until January 2006; and in my experience PowerPC macs are still effective for most tasks; perhaps with the exceptions of gaming and running Silverlight.
63. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Fred_A · 2008-10-14 05:22 · Score: 1
  
  The MS keys on your keyboard are an example. By my best estimate, about 1% of users ever use them for anything not an accident.
  I find them useful. One of them is "Super" and the other is set to be a "Compose key". It would probably be better if they were labelled properly, but I suppose that's too much to expect (or I should get one of those OLED keyboards that costs more than my computer).
  I don't really know what they're for in Windows though.
  
  --
  
  May contain traces of nut.
  Made from the freshest electrons.
64. Re:While I don't like Flash. by smooth+wombat · 2008-10-14 08:01 · Score: 1
  
  Flash is evil.
  
  Hope this helps.
  
  --
  We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
65. Re:While I don't like Flash. by triso · 2008-10-14 08:17 · Score: 1
  
  Moonlight is hardly a solution. It is complex, incompatible, slow, and will lag waaaaaay behind any current development.[,,,]
  Knowing Microsoft, Silverlight 2.0 will be the same. But how can...?
66. Re:While I don't like Flash. by Golthur · 2008-10-14 08:43 · Score: 1
  
  Yep, you can go as old-skool as you like.
  I build Flash apps regularly using ant from the command line and VIM for editing.
  
  --
  Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.
67. Re:While I don't like Flash. by emilng · 2008-10-14 08:45 · Score: 1
  
  The Eclipse plugin for Linux is still in alpha and can be found here:http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flexbuilder_linux.html
  
  The SDK will work in Linux without Eclipse though.
twitter? by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 08:21 · Score: 0

is that you?
1. Re:twitter? by Ethanol-fueled · 2008-10-13 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  No. If it were Twitter then that post would be spread across 10 $ockpuppets.
  
  Which is a shame, because Twitter says a lot of intelligent shit but he kills his case with his delivery(shameless responding to his own comments using "clones" of other popular users).
2. Re:twitter? by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 08:47 · Score: 0
  
  Not enough dollar signs, "fuck you"'s and sockpuppets.
3. Re:twitter? by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 13:42 · Score: 0
  
  You're completely psycho, twitter. Did you know that? Do you realize how imbalanced you seem when you refer to yourself in the third person and pretend no one knows about your multiple accounts?
  Have you thought about consulting a mental health professional at all?
4. Re:twitter? by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 13:47 · Score: 0
  
  > truly a sign of mental deficiency
  I'm sorry, I was distracted by the awesome spectacle of
  someone referring to themselves in the third person. You
  were saying?
5. Re:twitter? by ozphx · 2008-10-13 16:10 · Score: 1
  
  {citation needed}
  In the Jun '08 quarter, Microsoft made 15 billion in revenue, 12 billion of that was net profit. So far this year they have increased their cash reserves by 4 billion.
  MS is delivering almost a 50% return on equity this year. They're at the top of their sector in most financial categories, and I don't see Sun or Redhat even coming close.
  PS: We all know Erris and Twitter are the same damn person.
  
  --
  3laws: No freebies, no backsies, GTFO.
Why not Flash or AJAX? by jellomizer · 2008-10-13 08:21 · Score: 4, Interesting

Keeping in mind I am speaking in a group where there are huge amount of open source zealots. However Flash has the advantage that it runs in Linux, Mac, Windows (And more if you are designing for older versions) while Silverlight is only Windows and Mac.
Next Flash is usually installed by default on Mac and Windows systems. (And a simple plug in for Linux... But if you guys are so smart you can probably add a plugin yourself anyways or the distribution has it already installed) Vs. Having to install it on Windows and Macs too.
If you don't need the extra graphics and AJAX method works good too. Plus you don't need to deal with the Closed Source Flash as well.

--
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
1. Re:Why not Flash or AJAX? by Khorniszon · 2008-10-13 08:26 · Score: 0
  
  > However Flash has the advantage that it runs in Linux
  Yeah, especially the 64bit version.
  Yes, I know about nspluginwrapper. It's a solution to the problem which never should have happened.
  
  --
  My whole being exists in a formless void.
2. Re:Why not Flash or AJAX? by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 08:38 · Score: 0
  
  A very little advantage, I have to say.
3. Re:Why not Flash or AJAX? by scorp1us · 2008-10-13 08:42 · Score: 1
  
  see my comment here
  Basically, I ask the same thing, except I throw WebKit out there (Its what Adobe AIR is based on). Flash and Silverlight are proprietary licensed products. WebKit is not.
  
  --
  Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
4. Re:Why not Flash or AJAX? by CodeBuster · 2008-10-13 09:02 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  I seem to remember that the NBC olympics site (which used Silverlight) had plugin installation that was fairly easy with Firefox (which doesn't support ActiveX so it was obviously not IE only) and didn't require many manual user actions such as downloading and running an installer separately. Now granted, that was on Windows XP, but if it can be made to work with Firefox on Windows with a plugin then wouldn't that same Firefox plugin be available on Linux?
5. Re:Why not Flash or AJAX? by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 09:09 · Score: 0
  
  Nonsense. The popular free software implementation of Flash, Gnash, is not very functional at all. At least the free software implementation of Silverlight, Moonlight, is that much more promising (i.e. Mono works, whether you like it or not, and it is free software).
6. Re:Why not Flash or AJAX? by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 09:54 · Score: 0
  
  Flash does not work natively on Linux 64 bit
7. Re:Why not Flash or AJAX? by Tweenk · 2008-10-13 10:07 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Except that a plugin is not available on Linux. MS touts Moonlight as a nearly complete port of Silverlight to Linux but in fact it's very far from being usable - even Gnash is light years ahead of Moonlight when compared with their closed source versions.
  
  --
  Those who would give up liberty to obtain working drivers, deserve neither liberty nor working drivers.
8. Re:Why not Flash or AJAX? by JCSoRocks · 2008-10-13 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  Ugh, yeah, no 64bit flash = horribly lame. Particularly when you come across websites whose navigation is composed entirely of flash... real fun.
  
  --
  You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
9. Re:Why not Flash or AJAX? by jellomizer · 2008-10-13 11:49 · Score: 1
  
  You can get the Linux version of Adobe Flash. If you are going to limit yourself to GNU only, you need to take bad with the good.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
10. Re:Why not Flash or AJAX? by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 11:59 · Score: 0
  
  The Mono Runtime has a full featured implementation of Silverlight called Moonlight for Linux. And I'm sorry but Linux Flash is Teh Suck.
11. Re:Why not Flash or AJAX? by qopax · 2008-10-13 16:36 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know about Macs, but I've always had to install Flash on all of my Windows systems, and systems I've built for other people, so you might actually want to switch that around, since I bet SilverLight will come pre-installed in all future versions of Windows (already in Windows Update), unlike Flash.
  
  --
  I pwn this comment. "The Fine Print" says so.
12. Re:Why not Flash or AJAX? by Allador · 2008-10-13 19:51 · Score: 1
  
  As a minor correction, only the HTML rendering component of AIR is built on WebKit.
  Thats a minor (albeit useful) piece of AIR.
13. Re:Why not Flash or AJAX? by WhiteFluffyChest · 2008-10-14 02:25 · Score: 1
  
  I see Silverlight as just an attack on Linux. There is no way Microsoft will officially support it for Linux, just like Office.
  Microsoft will continuously pour millions and millions into Silverlight development over the next few years and only offer it to Windows and Mac. Linux is not invited to the party. They have to struggle with unofficial moonlight and mono builds, that more than likely won't be able to keep up.
  The bigger Silverlight becomes on the web, the weaker Linux becomes. That's what Microsoft are investing in. A way to make Linux a weaker platform.
It just seems wrong... by eagee · 2008-10-13 08:23 · Score: 2, Interesting

Like a booby trap. I dunno, M$ is kind of like the US Government for me. I don't trust 'em.
1. Re:It just seems wrong... by BenSchuarmer · 2008-10-13 09:10 · Score: 1
  
  Go in to the Silverlight, there is peace and serenity in the Silverlight
2. Re:It just seems wrong... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 13:22 · Score: 0
  
  Go in to the Silverlight, there is peace and serenity in the Silverlight
  Carol Ann! No!
3. Re:It just seems wrong... by allgoodnamesaretaken · 2008-10-13 17:46 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah! and Bill gates is... is... an Arab...
So, does this mean by afidel · 2008-10-13 08:23 · Score: 5, Insightful

We can expect an open source Silverlight viewer? If so and MS has agreed not to enforce any patents on the technology then I see little reason for it to not overtake flash. Flash sucks, a lot. The sooner we have another cross platform app for doing online animations and movies the better.

--
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
1. Re:So, does this mean by jellomizer · 2008-10-13 08:24 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  How does flash suck? (Any more or less then any of its competition)
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
2. Re:So, does this mean by LWATCDR · 2008-10-13 08:26 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  It is called Moonlight. http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight
  But I am not all that comfortable with it. I think that Microsoft has done enough that I just can not trust them with any "standards" any longer.
  
  --
  See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
3. Re:So, does this mean by rumpsummoner · 2008-10-13 08:31 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Have you developed on it? It looks good but actionscript is a nightmare if you're used to any language other than javascript.
4. Re:So, does this mean by Darkness404 · 2008-10-13 08:34 · Score: 1
  
  Flash sucks, a lot
  
  No more than Java, AJAX or Silverlight does. Most of the problems with Flash are the exact same problems that would happen even with Super Open Ultra Stable Plugin's stable version. Also, Flash is supported by a lot of things, the Wii can view Flash files, and so can the largest three OSes (Mac, Linux and Windows), and so can a bunch of other things not to mention that GNASH is in development and is OSS.
  
  --
  Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
5. Re:So, does this mean by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 08:38 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  ActionScript is really not that bad.
  I am a full time as3 dev moving from C++ and Java. I still do quite a bit of work in Java as well.
  There are only a few real problems with the language: a lack of overloading constructors and the lack of generics (which will be changed in an upcoming version).
  If you're in ActionScript 3, it feels nothing like JavaScript. We've got strong typing!
6. Re:So, does this mean by Darkness404 · 2008-10-13 08:39 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Honestly having used Flash on Windows it was by far the easiest programming I have ever done (other than messing around with Scratch but that doesn't count). Yes, if you aren't used to JavaScript it can be a pain, but honestly, if you are an artist Flash is going to make you decent programmer (unfortunately art isn't my strong point so my Flash ended up looking horrible)
  
  --
  Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
7. Re:So, does this mean by jellomizer · 2008-10-13 08:44 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Oh it is a holy war based on language syntax. I thought I was missing a glaring design quality issue about it.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
8. Re:So, does this mean by afidel · 2008-10-13 08:47 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  My biggest problems with flash are CPU usage and stability. The fact that it's not available for anything but x86 is another, albeit secondary concern (mostly around mobile players).
  
  --
  There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
9. Re:So, does this mean by Darkness404 · 2008-10-13 08:52 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  Yes, its true that Flash does seem to use up an absurd amount of CPU, but upgrading (or downgrading) your Flash player usually remedies the problem. And the x86 requirement is something that a lot of proprietary software has, though if GNASH ever becomes usable it won't be a concern.
  
  --
  Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
10. Re:So, does this mean by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 08:57 · Score: 0
  
  How about the fact that playing a simple youtube video takes up 90% of my CPU and starts skipping where a comparable video with mplayer takes up 35% and plays smoothly?
11. Re:So, does this mean by aztracker1 · 2008-10-13 09:05 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, via Novel's Moonlight project. And for the second part.. that's there too. I am not a fan of flash, developing stuff with it is always a PITA mainly the differences in ActionScript vs JavaScript... The moderately inconsistant APIs, and the fact that there really isn't a nice developer model. Flex approaches a nice model of development, but Silverlight leapfrogs it.
  
  --
  Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
12. Re:So, does this mean by pipboy9999 · 2008-10-13 09:15 · Score: 1
  
  I agree that there is nothing inherently evil about silverlight, its really nothing but a competitor to flash. The only thing I would be concerned about is that MS pressures developers into using silverlight and then cripples its use on non MS platforms once it gains decent market share.
  
  --
  Yeah, I've got nothing...
13. Re:So, does this mean by gaspyy · 2008-10-13 09:16 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Actionscript is similar to javascript, although in version 3, with strong typing, it starting to feel more like Java.
  Some people - me included - like its flexibility, while others loathe the same thing.
  The only thing I don't like about it is the new syntax for Vector data type (Flash 10)
  C#, Java: int list[] = new int[100];
  AS3: var list:Vector. = new Vector.(100);
14. Re:So, does this mean by bokel · 2008-10-13 09:56 · Score: 0
  
  Why is this posting considered informative? It sounds like FUD to me. ActionScript has come a long way. It is much more like Java and C# these days.
15. Re:So, does this mean by Tweenk · 2008-10-13 10:17 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Unfortunately Moonlight is nowhere near usable, at least for the average user. Additionally it will contain closed blobs of MS code because of the Novell-MS deal: read up
  
  --
  Those who would give up liberty to obtain working drivers, deserve neither liberty nor working drivers.
16. Re:So, does this mean by Almahtar · 2008-10-13 10:19 · Score: 1
  
  It really depends on which version of Actionscript you're using. Actionscript 3 was a marked deviation from AS1 and AS2. It highly resembles Java - Object Oriented, single inheritance, supports (multiple) interfaces, has the ability to be strongly typed if you choose, has packages, etc.
  
  To further blur the distinction between the two, when you compile your AS3 project it actually uses the Sun Java compiler and compiles to Java bytecode. So at this point the only difference between Java and Actionscript3 is the parser (and the massive amount of libraries available to Java programmers but not to Flash programmers).
17. Re:So, does this mean by Yvanhoe · 2008-10-13 10:19 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  I am not a web developper, but do we really need anything more than optimized javascript + SVG ?
  
  --
  The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
18. Re:So, does this mean by Blakey+Rat · 2008-10-13 10:26 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Flash runs just fine on PPC Macs. I have a friend with a Windows Mobile phone that has no problem viewing Hulu Flash movies. (No clue what CPUs in it, but I doubt it's x86.) I dunno where you got the idea that it's x86-only.
  
  --
  Comment of the year
19. Re:So, does this mean by aeoo · 2008-10-13 13:10 · Score: 1
  
  "We can expect an open source Silverlight viewer?"
  That won't be enough. We would want the entire stack to be open source and not just the viewer. In other words, .NET needs to become OSI-approved (http://www.opensource.org/) open source as well, at the very least, or better yet free GPL or LGPL software.
  If Microsoft releases the entire .NET stack as GPL, then I will ignore that Microsoft is the parent, and trust the offspring, because I trust GPL so much that I can ignore the Microsoft's previous behavior. Otherwise -- not a chance.
20. Re:So, does this mean by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 15:16 · Score: 0
  
  Insightful? "Flash suck, a lot." Sorry, but as a web developer I find this a dubious claim at best. Flash is what it is and does quite a bit pretty well - does it need improvement in areas? Absolutely. Any developer worth an hourly rate above $20 would be a little more understanding and a little less retarded.
  Lemme guess... you're one of the one's touting that either Mac or PC are better... right? Green thumbs; thanks; bye.
21. Re:So, does this mean by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 20:04 · Score: 0
  
  Don't know if it's true still, but it used to be that flash wouldn't work on amd64. The workaround being to run a 32-bit browser.
  Also PPC Mac is fairly mainstream. How about Solaris Sparc? MIPS Linux? Any random architecture + OS. Of course Silverlight won't solve this problem, because Mono doesn't really care about anything other than x86 Linux. Even a JVM is hard to come by for lots of platforms...
22. Re:So, does this mean by JPeMu · 2008-10-13 20:57 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  I work as Lead Software Dev for an online gaming company, and use ActionScript daily for my job (as well as other languages of course). We have found that we *cannot* use AS3 which is a real pity as it's much quicker and improved over AS2 (strict typing etc) due to 2 major bugs:
  
  First of all, there's an issue when dynamically loading images. No matter _how hard_ you try to dispose of allocated memory (Manual delete, NULL pointer, force GC etc etc) it does not free the previously allocated memory. Whopping memory leak. Furthermore, it's no longer possible to reference objects on the timeline until the frame _after_ they first get instantiated. Or the next one. Maybe. Or even the next one - all depends what mood the player is in. Sure, there's events you can hook in to to make sure you wait until the object's properly instantiated, but that kinda defeats the object of having a _time_line. So for us, AS3 is a bust until they can fix these issues.
  
  Back OT, as for Silverlight - I've yet to see this running anything meaningful at more than a crawl. Even looking at some of the most basic of UI widget sets implemented in Silverlight is a painfully slow experience, so that's not going to cut it for me either. Anybody have any links to either "meaningful" Silverlight content (i.e. more than just "hello world"), or a UI widget set implemented in Silverlight that's usable real-time I'd be interested to check them out...
  
  DT
23. Re:So, does this mean by supernova_hq · 2008-10-13 21:31 · Score: 1
  
  I am running a 64 bit version of ubuntu and while flash does work, it is ABYSMAL! I'm constantly switching between flashplugin-nonfree and gnash. One has no fullscreen and the other crashes on a regular basis.
24. Re:So, does this mean by ThaReetLad · 2008-10-13 21:36 · Score: 1
  
  How many critical remote execution vulnerabilities have there been in flash? Answer: A lot. A search on the CVE database returns 129 vulnerabilities. Even more if you include badly written flash apps.
  From what I can glean from those vulnerabilities Flash does some horrible naughty things that make it very susceptible to buffer overflows and execution of arbitrary code, not to mention all the other nasty insecure things it can do with uPnP devices, webcams etc.
  In comparison (although obviously, it's a new product with relatively few users) Silverlight has 0 (zero) known vulnerabilities.
  
  --
  You can't win Darth. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
25. Re:So, does this mean by ThaReetLad · 2008-10-13 21:40 · Score: 1
  
  And why is this a problem? We're talking about websites that will be changed and re-written regularly, not business critical servers that need to be available for 10 years, and honestly, when was the last time you went delving into the source code for any media codec? Of course, it's not like the flash player is OSS either, and if anything it's less OSS friendly than silverlight.
  
  --
  You can't win Darth. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
26. Re:So, does this mean by ThaReetLad · 2008-10-13 21:44 · Score: 1
  
  Why does this matter? Get some pragmatism, because we're talking about web sites, which just render and present data, not mission critical servers that need to run for 10 years or more.
  
  --
  You can't win Darth. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
27. Re:So, does this mean by Blakey+Rat · 2008-10-14 01:26 · Score: 1
  
  Well, people can't say stuff like "it only runs on x86" then weasel-out of counter-examples by saying PPC is "fairly mainstream." The fact is it runs on PPC, and it runs on ARM (what my friend's phone is running) with no problems at all. I can also guarantee AMD64 works fine, it runs on my laptop's AMD Turion 64 fine.
  Maybe your problem isn't Flash, but your OS. The reason it doesn't work on Sparc is that Sparc isn't a consumer OS! Or are you seriously suggesting people run Flash as SERVER software? Please. Adobe's already ported Flash for all consumer devices.
  
  --
  Comment of the year
28. Re:So, does this mean by miguel · 2008-10-14 03:53 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  We are getting ready for our first beta of Moonlight 1.0, which will map to Silverlight 1.0, you have a few options to get it running:
  (a) Wait until our official Beta launch, and it will contain an easy-to-install plugin. Click install, restart browser, you are done.
  (b) You can use it today if you build from our source code, it is published here: http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight
  (c) Repositories like Packman have RPMs that you can install for various distributions that you can install today.
  We will be using Microsoft's Media Pack for Linux, which is a licensed version of the media codecs, binary drivers provided by Microsoft. This has the advantage that the media companies that own the patents on codecs have been paid for (MPEG-LA consortium and others).
  For those of you that live in a country where software/machine patents are not enforced (media patents are enforced in Europe, contrary to popular lore) or those that just want to stick it to the man, you can build Moonlight with the open source FFMPEG media codecs.
  Support for Silverlight 2.0 will ship in preview form in December.
29. Re:So, does this mean by Doctor+Faustus · 2008-10-14 05:02 · Score: 1
  
  How does flash suck?
  I don't know about Silverlight, but with AJAX sites, you can still cut-and-paste normally.
30. Re:So, does this mean by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-14 08:20 · Score: 0
  
  The only way to view Hulu flash movies on a WM device is to browse the web through a proxy server. Probably Skyfire's.
31. Re:So, does this mean by EvilRyry · 2008-10-14 08:27 · Score: 1
  
  The Novell distributed version will contain blobs for the Audio/Video codecs. Novell cannot distribute an open source codec for these even if Microsoft promised not to suit since a lot of the patents aren't owned by them either.
  Fortunately you can easily swap out the blobs for FFMPEG if you're feeling risky (or live in a land where such patents aren't legally valid).
32. Re:So, does this mean by aeoo · 2008-10-14 08:43 · Score: 1
  
  "Get some pragmatism..."
  Exactly. That's how I look at it. I see my friend struggle with .NET hosting, and then I also tried to use the .NET myself and I constantly ran into the documentation problem. Java is just so much better documented. Secondly, I like how you can SSH into a Linux/BSD box and administer it using command line. You don't usually get this kind of thing with Windows hosting. And the security and the price are big issues. Usually Linux is cheaper, because they don't have to amortize the cost of Windows and MS SQL Server licenses.
  Linux has almost all the advantages over Windows. The only exception would be the VS web page building GUI, which doesn't work if you use a custom framework, and some minor advantages of the C# language (but it also has some disadvantages as well) as compared to Java. This is nowhere near enough to sway my preference. It's not even close. I am not a GUI guy. I like command lines and I am very comfortable not having the click and drag interface. In fact, when I get an option to use click and drag I almost always drop into the source view and ignore it. I do like language features to be as advanced as possible, however this is mitigated by the proprietary nature of C# (I don't take Mono seriously...sorry, it's nowhere close to the GPL'ed Java in usefulness or speed or tools). I want closures and other functional features in Java, but I am willing to wait.
  For me the proprietary nature of certain things is a real pragmatic drawback. I see real pragmatic benefits from open source. And I also agree with RMS, in that the principle of freedom is too important to give up. So I see it both ways. I agree with ESR and I agree with RMS as well. Open source development produces better software given that all other factors remain the same, and freedom really IS important. Freedom is pragmatic. Freedom is not just a wishful dream of an idealistic hippie. People have died for freedom, so we better value it, or we will lose it.
  Now when I get some software that I am FREE to use in any way I want, including modifying and redistributing said software, that's a freedom I really appreciate.
Sluts by orsocio · 2008-10-13 08:25 · Score: 5, Funny

"...under its Microsoft Permissive License..."

love the way Microsoft kinda imply that open source is so slutty...
1. Re:Sluts by moderatorrater · 2008-10-13 08:45 · Score: 1
  
  They've got a point. These projects are letting themselves be manipulated in any way that these nerds can imagine. No wonder they've got such a bad reputation.
2. Re:Sluts by Ethanol-fueled · 2008-10-13 08:47 · Score: 1, Flamebait
  
  If Microsoft were really serious about pandering to the open source crowd then they would use a typical open source license or at least not anything with their own name stamped on it.
  
  Hubris and ignorance.
3. Re:Sluts by aztracker1 · 2008-10-13 09:11 · Score: 1
  
  You mean like the Apache License, and Mozilla Licenses are? (The licenses in the most widely used FOSS applications out there)... MS-PL is pretty much a BSD License plus a don't sue clause.
  
  --
  Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
4. Re:Sluts by lysergic.acid · 2008-10-13 09:16 · Score: 1
  
  i'm still waiting for them to release it under the more "free spirited" Microsoft Promiscuous License.
5. Re:Sluts by Ethanol-fueled · 2008-10-13 09:16 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  I didn't mean to imply that a license shouldn't be named after a project or foundation, but the Apache and Mozilla foundations were made from open source so their licenses have more cred than those Microsoft, which has been historically proprietary and anti open-source.
6. Re:Sluts by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 09:51 · Score: 0
  
  If Microsoft were really serious about pandering to the open source crowd then they would use a typical open source license or at least not anything with their own name stamped on it.
  Hubris and ignorance.
  Do you criticize Apache for naming their open-source license the Apache License? There are other, far more serious problems with Microsoft's license than its name.
7. Re:Sluts by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 11:30 · Score: 0
  
  I love that Open Source _is_ so slutty :)
8. Re:Sluts by shutdown+-p+now · 2008-10-13 17:35 · Score: 1
  
  That's why we have FSF and OSS cataloguing those licenses that are actually Free and Open-Source. Ms-PL is on the FSF list as a "free software license, compatible with version 3 of the GNU GPL" (which is to say, it's essentially the same as Apache License).
9. Re:Sluts by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-14 05:26 · Score: 0
  
  Note that the only thing they make more "open" is the license of the documentation.
  The fact that you need to agree to a license before you can get to see what it actually is and how it could be used gives me very little confidence, in fact, it's a big warning: IT'S A TRAP!
Ugh, I tire of this... by TheNecromancer · 2008-10-13 08:28 · Score: 5, Interesting

I am so sick of reading these tech articles with an anti-MS bias to them.
As a developer, isn't the point to write better/more robust code?? Silverlight is a tool that Microsoft is designing so that developers can take better advantage of the rich Internet experience. It steams me that the author of that article seems bent on pointing out that MS has this "ultimate plan" to kill Adobe.
Why can't people get past the whole pro vs. anti-Microsoft thing? I may be ranting here (apologies in advance), but railing on MS for their past business practices (which I don't condone, BTW) is pointless. I tend to use the best tools available for the technologies that I code for, and Microsoft has some good ones! Sure, they are proprietary, but it could be any large corporation in MS's place, and people would rail on them for being the "big, bad corporation"! Open source has its' place in the industry, as does proprietary software!
Let's get past the hate, and just stick to what we (developers) do best: write awesome code!! I get stoked when I hear of new technologies coming out (from MS or Sun, or whomever), since that means the online experience users want is getting better, and WE are the ones who give it to the masses!!
W00t to new technologies!!

--
Attention all planets of the Solar Federation! We have assumed control! - Neil Peart
1. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by grub · 2008-10-13 08:32 · Score: 1
  
  take better advantage of the rich Internet experience
  
  I never understood how in recent times the term "experience" is applied to so many things. The net is a tool, not an experience. I use a hammer, I don't have "nail driving experiences" with one. I download BluRay rips, I'm not having a "copyright infringing experience".
  
  Picking nits, I know...
  
  --
  Trolling is a art,
2. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Microlith · 2008-10-13 08:37 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Silverlight is a tool that Microsoft is designing so that developers can take better advantage of the rich Internet experience.
  Sounds like marketing drivel to me.
  
  Why can't people get past the whole pro vs. anti-Microsoft thing?
  While financials are right in stating that past performance does not guarantee future performance, microsoft does not get the benefit of the doubt. They have (and continue to, albeit subtly) acted maliciously towards their competitors for a long time, and will spread FUD whenever they can to drive users to the "platform of choice*", namely Windows and Windows-derivatives.
  Not to say that Microsoft hasn't come up with some good things. The problem is that adopting these good things puts you right where Microsoft wants you: following them lockstep, but never quite able to catch up.
  That said, your post reeks of cheerleader. Wake me up when Mono catches up to .NET 3.0 (I think they just got 1.0 WinForms support and are nearing 2.0 compatibility?)
3. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Dan667 · 2008-10-13 08:45 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I think that you are glossing over three decades of Microsoft stifling innovation, locking out others, and bullying. It is a very healthy thing to scrutinize Microsoft's activity and make sure others know to be wary of them. If they are going to behave differently they are not going to gain trust over night. But there is nothing so far that show that Microsoft is behaving any less badly than they have before.
4. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 08:45 · Score: 0
  
  You must be new here
5. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by LWATCDR · 2008-10-13 08:47 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Well it has more to do with standards. I don't want to have anything I do on the internet tied to one OS, browser, or even software supplier.
  Flash is supported on more OS's and more browsers than Silverlight.
  Also I just can not trust microsoft to keep supporting anything but Windows.
  IE, Mediaplayer, and VBA for Office all show that Microsoft will not support anything but Windows.
  That isn't really politics it is just logic. The internet should be OS and Browser neutral.
  
  --
  See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
6. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by corsec67 · 2008-10-13 08:48 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  How is Silverlight going to make my "Internet Experience" better in FireFox on an Ubuntu AMD64 computer?
  
  --
  If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
7. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Timothy+Brownawell · 2008-10-13 08:51 · Score: 1
  
  As a developer, isn't the point to write better/more robust code??
  You forgot "more useful". The more restrictions you impose on your customers, the less useful your code is.
  
  I may be ranting here (apologies in advance), but railing on MS for their past business practices (which I don't condone, BTW) is pointless.
  To a degree... but if you're relying on their future behavior (ie, not forcing silverlight to be windows-only), looking at past behavior is a decent idea.
  
  I tend to use the best tools available for the technologies that I code for, and Microsoft has some good ones!
  Yes, they do. But if I don't want my products to be tied to Windows, I have to either look elsewhere or trust Microsoft (in spite of all their history) to play nice.
8. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 08:53 · Score: 0
  
  So, you just want to MS to have total control over the whole IT-industry?
  Who can compete in software development with MS when MS owns the platform. This is the situation we (icluding you) must fight against. Monopoly is no solution.
9. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 08:53 · Score: 0
  
  Agreed. Besides, competition is good! If anything, it'll ensure Flash stays competitive (doesn't become "stale", sort of like IE6 did, pre-Firefox).
  Flash might have a port for Linux, but sound is broken, and it sucks overall. Silverlight (and moonlight) could hardly be worse...
10. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by nurb432 · 2008-10-13 08:55 · Score: 2
  
  I am so sick of reading these tech articles with an anti-MS bias to them.
  As a developer, isn't the point to write better/more robust code??
  
  Well of course, but since when has any Microsoft tool kit provided 'better/robust' code? ( its been decades )
  Their current crop of tool kits ( and language of the week ) are the pinnacle of bloat and internal inefficiency.
  
  --
  ---- Booth was a patriot ----
11. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by nurb432 · 2008-10-13 08:56 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, and if hear 'rich experience' one more time i think i'm going to puke.
  
  --
  ---- Booth was a patriot ----
12. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by ConceptJunkie · 2008-10-13 08:57 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Saying Microsoft is trying to kill Adobe is "pro-" or "anti-" anything. It's an observation. It's what Microsoft always tries to do.
  I think you're being just a little too sensitive here when talking about a company for which nothing is too low when it comes to smothering the competition.
  Aside from that, if Silverlight is good, people will use it. Frankly, all I could ever get it to do is ask to be installed, even when it supposedly was. I guess it doesn't support Firefox. Flash is closed-source, a performance hog, and Adobe can't seem to port it to 64-bits even though they've been allegedly "trying" for years. If that doesn't tell you volumes about the quality of the code, then nothing will.
  Silverlight is from Microsoft, therefore it will _not_ come without some huge club beating you in the face to lock you into Microsoft regardless of whether it's good or bad. This is an important consideration. Just when software is more cross-platform friendly than ever, Microsoft comes along and tries to set the clock back 10 years. No Linux support? Is this 1998 again?
  These are important considerations above and beyond whether Silverlight is easy to work with and performs well. All Microsoft technology comes with a big ball-and-chain attached, backed by an obscenely powerful company who is not afraid to extort, intimidate and lie to maintain their advantage. For many people, that's not a problem and may even be seen as an advantage. For other people, it could be a deal-breaker.
  If Microsoft wants to be treated based solely on the merits of their technology, then perhaps it's time, after 30 years, that they attempt to compete based solely on the merits of their technology.
  
  --
  You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
13. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by scorp1us · 2008-10-13 08:59 · Score: 1
  
  1. MS has the developer interia to control the market.
  2. MS continues to fracture the market, rather than compete. People like Icaza are mislead by MS, and end up being MS's Linux department. But it will always be a 2nd rate platform to Windows. This only benefits MS, because now they can make a claim that it "'can' run on Linux", but it actually won't be 100%, because they hold back some libraries.
  3. Of the stuff that is available for linux, it isn't available until way late int he game.
  4. Microsoft doesn't compete with better technology. They compete with inertia. The products are floating on install base, like the company is floating on cash reserves.
  I wouldn't mind MS if they were really cross platform - meaning that they are responsible for mono, and make sure all libraries are available and work on mono on the same day they are released for windows.
  
  --
  Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
14. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Foofoobar · 2008-10-13 09:03 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Agreed. The web is meant to be cross platform and Microsoft keeps trying to tie the web to ther OS or their BROWSER or their TOOLS (which then tie back to their BROWSER which ties back to their OS). This is why people are anti Microsoft because Microsoft is anti-open and 'anti-cross platform'. Everytime they make the motion to be cross platform, they ruin it by tying it in to something else or exploiting it or making it obsolete. They can't just leave something open and cross platform. This is why people are suspicious that the have never accepted the GPL or any other truly open license.
  
  --
  This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
15. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2008-10-13 09:05 · Score: 1
  
  Why can't people get past the whole pro vs. anti-Microsoft thing? I may be ranting here (apologies in advance), but railing on MS for their past business practices (which I don't condone, BTW) is pointless.
  It's not pointless if they are continuing some ugly business practices. Not only is it enough of a track record to merit keeping a suspicious eye on them, they seem to be continuing it. It's enough that they highjacked the ISO standardization practices by stacking the votes or trying to throw procedures and votes out the door to get their Office format standardized, but they are trying to take control of the Open Office format as well.
16. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by aztracker1 · 2008-10-13 09:15 · Score: 1
  
  Mono isn't a 1:1 implementation of .Net ... they are compatible with everything in 2.0 that matters. They have a large portion of the 3.0/3.5 stuff as well. (.Net 3.0 is pretty much an add-on to 2.0, while 3.5 has some core changes).
  
  I've tested and deployed a number of applications under mono, including one that was built for mono. It's pretty nice, I wish people were more inclined to treat it like a first class citizen in linux distros.
  
  --
  Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
17. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by aztracker1 · 2008-10-13 09:23 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Moonlight is free and open-source, and isn't going anywhere. MS has offered technical reviews and support to moonlight developers, and you'll likely see moonlight in your native x64 firefox before Flash.
  
  --
  Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
18. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by corsec67 · 2008-10-13 09:36 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  What happens when Silverlight is made incompatible with Moonlight? Moonlight seems to be in the "Embrace" phase, what about the extend and extinguish phases?
  If you say to make stuff work for Moonlight, what happens when executables made for Moonlight don't work in Sliverlight?
  
  --
  If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
19. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 10:03 · Score: 0
  
  Let's get past the hate, and just stick to what we (developers) do best: write awesome code!!
  I can code on platforms that do not include Windows. Can you? Flash is everywhere, silverlight is not. Good programmers don't limit a users choice. An artist wouldn't paint for just a few.
20. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Tweenk · 2008-10-13 10:24 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Mono isn't a 1:1 implementation of .Net ... they are compatible with everything in 2.0 that matters.
  And Wine is compatible with everything that matters in the Win32 API. That doesn't cause all programs that matter to run correctly.
  
  --
  Those who would give up liberty to obtain working drivers, deserve neither liberty nor working drivers.
21. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 10:32 · Score: 0
  
  Saying Microsoft is trying to kill Adobe is "pro-" or "anti-" anything. It's an observation. It's what Microsoft always tries to do.
  I think you're being just a little too sensitive here when talking about a company for which nothing is too low when it comes to smothering the competition.
  Aside from that, if Silverlight is good, people will use it. Frankly, all I could ever get it to do is ask to be installed, even when it supposedly was. I guess it doesn't support Firefox. Flash is closed-source, a performance hog, and Adobe can't seem to port it to 64-bits even though they've been allegedly "trying" for years. If that doesn't tell you volumes about the quality of the code, then nothing will.
  Silverlight is from Microsoft, therefore it will _not_ come without some huge club beating you in the face to lock you into Microsoft regardless of whether it's good or bad. This is an important consideration. Just when software is more cross-platform friendly than ever, Microsoft comes along and tries to set the clock back 10 years. No Linux support? Is this 1998 again?
  These are important considerations above and beyond whether Silverlight is easy to work with and performs well. All Microsoft technology comes with a big ball-and-chain attached, backed by an obscenely powerful company who is not afraid to extort, intimidate and lie to maintain their advantage. For many people, that's not a problem and may even be seen as an advantage. For other people, it could be a deal-breaker.
  If Microsoft wants to be treated based solely on the merits of their technology, then perhaps it's time, after 30 years, that they attempt to compete based solely on the merits of their technology.
  Of course you know that Silverlight is not working for IE 64-bits
  but still you bash Adobe ?
22. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by gbjbaanb · 2008-10-13 10:35 · Score: 1
  
  they are compatible with everything in 2.0 that matters
  yeah? Which bits on .NET 2.0 don't matter (linux geeks - that was not an invitation to say 'all of it', k).
  I wish they'd spent their time working on a better OS-level library for multiple languages than burden us with a locked-in Java clone (even if you can write the byte-code in other languages, where they fit with the .NET architectural model, that is)
23. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by registrar · 2008-10-13 10:38 · Score: 1
  
  As a developer, isn't the point to write better/more robust code??
  Nope. As a developer, the point is to build a relationship with the consumer of code---end users of various kinds. That relationship is compromised if the underlying technology is untrustworthy, whether for reasons of techical quality or otherwise.
  At the moment, there are so many platforms of sufficiently high technical quality (including Windows) that platform decisions should be made on other grounds. For me: (1) is the platform portable? (2) is it susceptible to embrace-and-extend?
24. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 10:39 · Score: 0
  
  Three words: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.
  Microsoft does *not* have a good track record as far as standards go, and they've never given us a reason to suspect that they've reformed since being convicted of monopoly abuse.
  I'd love to see a good, open alternative to flash... but I can't just trust M$ to do that. Sure, they have a group trying to get silverlight to linux, but will they support them in coming versions? Will they provide them access to up-to-date API's and everything else they need to support every silverlight app that works on windows? Will they *really* let people use silverlight however they want in perpetuity?
  There's also the point that Microsoft *invented* astroturfing... you know, getting people to post on forums and things in their defense? They *pay* people for that: so naturally people not getting paid to support MS are always wary of anyone supporting MS.
25. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by ignavus · 2008-10-13 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  I am so sick of reading these tech articles with an anti-MS bias to them.
  As a developer, isn't the point to write better/more robust code??
  No. The point is to avoid market lock-in and stop abusive monopoly from *spreading further*.
  If you ignore the politics of the market, you will eventually have no choice of technology. So while you are busy just wanting to look at the technology, Microsoft is busy trying to restrict your choice of technology. If you don't value your freedom, you *will* lose it unless others less blinkered fight the battle for you.
  
  --
  I am anarch of all I survey.
26. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by norite · 2008-10-13 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  How the fuck can I have a *cough* "rich internet experience" with silverlight on a 64bit dual core PC running Linux????
  
  --
  -- Fuck Beta
27. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by JCSoRocks · 2008-10-13 10:53 · Score: 1
  
  Ugh it seems like nothing works on 64bit. I finally gave up and built a dual boot system just so that I could actually run half of my applications. All this in spite of the fact that I've read multiple articles / rumors about Windows 7 being 64bit only. Which... given how things went with Vista and people complaining about backward compatibility and driver issues... I don't even see happening anymore. Which is sad, because 32 bit needs to be given the axe.
  
  --
  You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
28. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by naasking · 2008-10-13 10:54 · Score: 1
  
  It steams me that the author of that article seems bent on pointing out that MS has this "ultimate plan" to kill Adobe.
  It steams me too! Their ultimate plan is quite clearly intended to kill all Internet competitors, not just Adobe! Shame on all of you for thinking MS would be so short-sighted!
  
  --
  Higher Logics: where programming meets science.
29. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by ConceptJunkie · 2008-10-13 10:57 · Score: 1
  
  No, I didn't know that. Frankly, I don't care about what Microsoft does.
  
  --
  You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
30. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by markdavis · 2008-10-13 11:15 · Score: 1
  
  I tell you what, perhaps YOU should use something OTHER than an MS operating system and browser and then tell us how happy you are about Silverlight or IE-only sites, etc. There are many, MANY reasons to use something other than MS products. And if that is or has been what one choses to use, then the things that MS does that either intentionally or unintentionally causes those people pain is going to piss them off.
31. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by markdavis · 2008-10-13 11:25 · Score: 1
  
  You are right. It really ISN'T going anywhere.
  It is, in reality, a kludge. It will always lag far behind .NET and Silverlight. And when things don't work in it, vendors and site developers aren't going to give a damn. As usual, non MS users are going to be screwed.
32. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by cpeterso · 2008-10-13 13:19 · Score: 1
  
  Adobe can't seem to port it to 64-bits even though they've been allegedly "trying" for years.
  
  What would you do with a 64-bit Flash Player?
  
  --
  cpeterso
33. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by sandoval88419 · 2008-10-13 13:26 · Score: 1
  
  I'm so tired of reading these anti-tech articles with an MS bias to them, go play with your digg
34. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by pembo13 · 2008-10-13 15:19 · Score: 1
  
  I like how people answer the question 'how is Silverlight going to do X' with 'Moonlight...'. Maybe I am the only one who sees those as two different things.
  
  --
  "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
35. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by KGIII · 2008-10-13 16:51 · Score: 1
  
  I just want a moment of clarity, I'm actually kind of high tonight so maybe I'm missing something basic.
  By FUD you mean the whole suits vs. Linux or Unix thing?
  If that is the case, and I mean "if" really, then you are aware that Microsoft has soooooooo many patents that it is unlikely that there is something in Linux, Unix, Mac, BeOS, RiscOS, etc that is not actually covered by a Microsoft patent? Better yet... You do realize that Microsoft has patents for things that haven't even been invented yet from the looks of some of them.
  The United States is not the center of the world and some areas allow for various patent laws. However, they still carry a heavy stick for the time being. As the rest of the world won't trust China this seems to be a trend that is going to continue for quite some time. For better, for worse, regardless of ideology, regardless of foaming at the mouth - this seems to be the case.
  If you mean their TCO studies then we must accept that, for better or worse, those studies were done where they already had trained monkeys familiar with the Windows environment and then realize the added cost of re-training people. There may be a sunrise for Linux as the desktop in the average household but it is unlikely for quite some time to come.
  We typically blame patents for these things. The capitalist in me says, "Ha ha!" The realist in me goes, "Holy shit this is not going to end well." The maniac me goes, "Whoopee! FTW and give me a fiddle." The rest of me thinks it is time for a couple more hits.
  My prescription is to go read Tom Robbins' "Fierce Invalids Home From Hot Climates."
  It won't help any but it will keep you amused while you look out the second floor window as the house burns.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
36. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by KGIII · 2008-10-13 17:35 · Score: 1
  
  What happens when your favorite distro goes belly up?
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
37. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 18:11 · Score: 0
  
  Run it in a 64-bit browser? Right now it's pointless to run a browser that's been compiled for 64-bit because you can't use any major plug-ins.
  dom
38. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Raenex · 2008-10-13 21:17 · Score: 1
  
  People like Icaza are mislead by MS
  People like Icaza are smart enough to know the game. If they are mislead it is because of their own choosing.
39. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 21:33 · Score: 0
  
  What happens when your favorite distro goes belly up?
  you pick another.
  Next, please.
40. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by supernova_hq · 2008-10-13 22:01 · Score: 1
  
  Wow, just, wow...
  Do the words open source mean anything to you? Or the fact that you an pick up pretty much ANY other distro and move your stuff over? If ubuntu died (including it's parent debian), I can simply format my main driver, install something else (fedora, dsl, etc), point /home to my secondary partition and BOOM, back up and running in about an hour!
  Try doing that with a web technology that no longer supports your O.S. due to the KERNEL!
41. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 23:52 · Score: 0
  
  Microsoft comes along and tries to set the clock back 10 years. No Linux support? Is this 1998 again?
  17 years and 0% to 0.91% desktop market share? I call that a huge success.
  http://www.opera.com/download/index.dml?opsys=Linux%20i386&lng=en&ver=9.60&platform=Linux%20i386&local=y
  30 different versions? You _KNOW_ that when you write a windows program it just works on each and every Windows desktop out there. This is currently not possible on linux. I'ts still a platform for hobbyists. Its has to yet acheive enterprise-grade reliablity on the desktop. Which is why it sucks. Which is also why people ignore it. Even Google ignores it (chrome). Google milked the cow by using OSS code and making billions, now when its time to give back, ofcource, they dont give a crap.
42. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-14 00:07 · Score: 0
  
  >The problem is that adopting these good things puts you right where Microsoft wants you: following them lockstep, but never quite able to catch up.
  >That said, your post reeks of cheerleader. Wake me up when Mono catches up to .NET 3.0
  Oh the irony of reading these two sentences next to each other ...
43. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by digitalgiblet · 2008-10-14 00:19 · Score: 1
  
  I use a hammer, I don't have "nail driving experiences" with one.
  
  You, sir, have CLEARLY never tried the Hammer-Matic 2500 Xtreme. It has an ergonomic handle and a 3 megaton nail-pounding turbo-booster. I once achieved nirvana THREE TIMES while building a birdhouse. Remember, just because YOU have never had a nail driving experience, doesn't mean that the rest of us are so limited in our hammer-wielding world-view!
44. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Tim+C · 2008-10-14 00:27 · Score: 1
  
  As a developer, isn't the point to write better/more robust code??
  As a developer, yes. However, that is not and never has been an aim of this website. This website exists to provide CmdrTaco with interesting stuff to read (read the FAQ), and he and the other admins are all very heavily pro-FOSS and anti-MS.
  I'm tired of the often mindless bias too, but you really should know what to expect when you read this site by now.
  
  --
  It's official. Most of you are morons.
45. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by KGIII · 2008-10-14 01:20 · Score: 1
  
  Oh OSS means exactly what it means (I think) to me. In this case, don't you think that if Silverlight is popular enough that the ball will be picked up and carried even if Microsoft goes all Scrooge on people?
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
46. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-14 02:24 · Score: 0
  
  It steams me that the author of that article seems bent on pointing out that MS has this "ultimate plan" to kill Adobe.
  Are you saying that they do not have such a plan? On what grounds?
  
  Why can't people get past the whole pro vs. anti-Microsoft thing?
  Because of a thing called "memory" which allows us to recall what Microsoft has been doing over the years and correlate past behavior with current and thus extrapolate future events accordingly.
  What are you? A moron?
47. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-14 06:01 · Score: 0
  
  "Adobe can't seem to port it to 64-bits even though they've been allegedly "trying" for years. "
  According to SilverLight 2.0's website, Silverlight will run on Windows 2003 except IA64...So, so much for 64bit support..
48. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by aztracker1 · 2008-10-14 06:19 · Score: 1
  
  For the most part what isn't implemented is MS's "Enterprise" stack, which is really limited in terms of what applications are written to support it, and is particularly tied to MS on the backend. There are a lot of alternatives to this stack available to .Net, cross-platform, and cross-environment (Java, etc). The bulk of what is available in .Net, outside of these parts is available in mono.
  
  --
  Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
49. Re:Ugh, I tire of this... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-14 07:02 · Score: 0
  
  You know, part of the thing that amuses me about this anti-microsoft sentiment,
  is that the developers who go along with it.. LEFT the band wagon LONG LONG ago.
  So being locked out is what you should have expected, right? Did you code for Mozilla?
  Most of you go on and on about the problem, but guess what? Most of you didn't contribute to these "big" projects at the time. If you have a "right" to speak about microsoft's practices, you get to it. State your project that was sabotaged, and get to preaching, otherwise, go write C++ and love your whipped user environment.
  Most of us have to go where the bread and butter is. I have a kid (Guess I shouldn't be on slashdot, since I've had sex). I got a mortgage (Guess I shouldn't be on slashdot, I don't live in mother's basement).
  What? Do you want access to Microsoft SQL servers?(No, I know nobody in the Linux/Unix world want to use MsSQL) You annoyed you have to use FreeTDS or pay for some driver in order to do it in the Linux world? You have MySQL (Plenty of variant projects).. and Oracle..
  Drivers have always been a problem for Linux/Unix, but the issue seems to be getting better year by year.
  Should I cry for you? Did you think that making your own OS would be easy? Did you think everyone was going to turn the keys over to you? If you had a MASSIVELY profitable business, would you be all about making it easy for any competition to move up into your market? Look at Mac? They slam the fist down hardware and sofware-wise. Yet I hear very few complaints about them. Is it the Linux/Unix kernal deep down inside that makes you feel better about it?
  What actual Enterprise network desktop / server solutions do you have? How about the cost of teaching employees how to deal with your strange environment. Your unimpressive interfaces. How about the small number of projects trying to make something similar to exchange? They aren't good. Let's face it, Linux/Unix guys don't like Corporate America. The only time Corporate America deals with you guys is when they need someone who knows their crap, and deals with some strange piece of technology that a lazy windows tech guy didn't want to learn.
  Who cares if Microsoft doesn't support another OS or another browser? They lose marketshare if Open Source puts out a project worth it's salt. You are quick to boo, but really, you should be cheering.. "Great, more locked down microsoft technology.. maybe if we get our crap together and stop working on 1000 different projects going down the same conceptual design, and make one team of developers.. we can actually make a robust solution instead of supporting this clannish, pro-beard, alpha-nerd, screw-the-empire mentality."
  Look at Linux, how many distro's do you have? You are all divided. From one flavor to the next
  variations in commands.
  Come on.. I mean, where is Open Source's "Robert the Bruce" to unite the clans?
  It isn't Linus. He couldn't get you guys to coordinate breaking out a six pack.
  Platform independant? Who cares, until there is some kind of fundamental change in Open Source's team size.
  I have 1000 developers making .net code for me right now at Microsoft. They pay top dollar for their guys.
  You expect me to believe some cluster of kids, paranoids, rebels and hackers can take them on?
  Coding isn't guerilla warfare.
  Let's face it, the best offering will thrive, and even I will move if Linux/Unix proves to be worth the change,
  but until then, I'll keep the OS around for my older boxes, so they still have some pep, and they get things I need done, while I stay productive in getting my applications out in a WINDOWS world.
did they finally get datagrid compat going by StupidPeopleTrick · 2008-10-13 08:29 · Score: 2, Interesting

silverlight 1.0 had not XAML controls for the simple datagrid control. OMG what a stuff up! You had to go to xceed to get one and pay for it. That little detail made me so mad that I have sworn off silverlight. The message was clear, if your a small development shop, you cannot afford silverlight. Oh by the way, where is the automated testing framework for writting automated UI tests against it? anyone?... anyone?... - StupidPeopleTrick
1. Re:did they finally get datagrid compat going by Shados · 2008-10-13 08:34 · Score: 1
  
  Silverlight 1.0 had no data controls in general, it was just for vectorial drawing and animations. Just a marketing trick to get the name out there... originally, Silverlight 2.0 was supposed to be the "first". It went from being WPF/E, to Silverlight, to Silverlight 1.1, to Silverlight 2.0.
  Wasn't the xceed grid for WPF, not Silverlight, though?
2. Re:did they finally get datagrid compat going by Dragonshed · 2008-10-13 08:39 · Score: 1
  
  silverlight 1.0 had not XAML controls for the simple datagrid control. OMG what a stuff up! You had to go to xceed to get one and pay for it. That little detail made me so mad that I have sworn off silverlight. The message was clear, if your a small development shop, you cannot afford silverlight.
  Silverlight 1.0 development was a pain, most people opted to wait for 2. Silverlight 2 includes a datagrid for free.
  
  Oh by the way, where is the automated testing framework for writting automated UI tests against it? anyone?... anyone?...
  http://blogs.msdn.com/sburke/archive/2008/09/30/unit-testing-with-silverlight.aspx
  Written by the PM in charge of most of the control development to date.
  Your message was FUD. Any more that I can dispel?
  -ds
3. Re:did they finally get datagrid compat going by StupidPeopleTrick · 2008-10-13 08:58 · Score: 1
  
  FUD, no. More of a real disappointment over the Silverlight 1.1. When you go to all of the .net user groups, etc. and think to yourself "wow this is cool" - then sit down and play for 3-4 hours and realize how it falls so short, it leaves you with a bad taste in your mouth. The whole xceed thing ($) is what really got me. I may look at sl 2.0, but I still have to get over the first (bad) impression of sl 1.1. - StupidPeopleTrick
4. Re:did they finally get datagrid compat going by aztracker1 · 2008-10-13 09:27 · Score: 1
  
  I waited for 2.0 to even look into it.. to be honest, I probably won't do anything significant for a few years... it could be the first cross platform MS has ever had that they support for more than 2-3 years.
  
  --
  Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
5. Re:did they finally get datagrid compat going by markdavis · 2008-10-13 11:46 · Score: 1
  
  Supporting only two of the three major Operating Systems is not, in my book, "cross platform". Wake me up when MS directly ports, supports, and keeps current, .NET/Silverlight on Linux (cause Mono ain't gonna cut it). And with their track record, even if they DID support it, it would be only long enough to kill off competition, then, suddenly and mysteriously, all the versions except the ones for MS's platform will start to fall behind, experience incompatibilities or interesting bugs, and then break/disappear alltogether.
  Been there. Done that.
  History has a way of repeating itself.
6. Re:did they finally get datagrid compat going by aztracker1 · 2008-10-14 06:25 · Score: 1
  
  MS has put quite a bit of effort into supporting Novel/Mono in developing Moonlight. There's very little benefit to MS porting to Linux, simply because the Mono guys are already familiar with the platform/environment, and are more capable of actually developing in/for the environment. I wouldn't be surprised if MS paid Novel to maintain the OSX version in the future based off of Moonlight, over the MS version.
  
  --
  Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
Really nice Silverlight sample site by RingDev · 2008-10-13 08:30 · Score: 4, Interesting

http://gallery1.demconvention.com/
Yup, the Democratic National Convention site is Silverlight. The bandwidth isn't quite as impressive as it was while the event was going on. But flip through the site and check out the functionality.
As someone who has developed a bit with the beta Silverlight tools, I have to say it is an amazing platform. And I'm quite excited about using it in the future.
-Rick

--
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
1. Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 08:36 · Score: 0
  
  Like there aren't already enough good reasons to vote against the Democrats.
2. Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site by argent · 2008-10-13 08:52 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  But flip through the site and check out the functionality.
  
  We're sorry, but the Democratic Convention video web site isn't compatible with your operating system and/or browser.
  I'm sorry, but you're making me more interested in what McCain's got to say.
3. Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site by PhattyMatty · 2008-10-13 09:05 · Score: 1
  
  I went to that site and checked out the functionality. It turns out that that meant watching a couple of videos and then having it crash my Firefox... So far I haven't seen much good in Silverlight.
4. Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 09:07 · Score: 0
  
  For the best Democratic Convention video experience, you'll need the Microsoft Silverlight plug-in and the Move Networks media player.
  Weâ(TM)re sorry, but the Democratic Convention video web site isnâ(TM)t compatible with your operating system and/or browser. Please try again on a computer with the following:
  Compatible operating systems:
  Windows XP SP2, Windows Vista, or a Mac with Tiger (OS 10.4) or Leopard (OS 10.5).
  Compatible browsers:
  Internet Explorer (version 6 or later), Firefox (version 2), or, if you are on a Mac, Safari (version 3.1) also works
5. Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 09:07 · Score: 0
  
  The site crashes on my Mac. Fucking Democrats, I definitely won't be voting for them now. Anyone who chooses to use Silverlight is obviously not fit to run the country.
6. Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 09:28 · Score: 0
  
  Hey Rick, are you going to the picnic this weekend? I heard from corporate affairs that they were thinking about postponing it because of those filthy protesters in Linux shirts.
  - Billy G
7. Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 11:23 · Score: 0
  
  I got as far as the front page with a message telling me my operating system or browser was not compatible. Im using Win XP and Opera.
  More like DemoCRAP.
8. Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site by alexmin · 2008-10-13 11:49 · Score: 1
  
  I can hardly call this nice: "Weâ(TM)re sorry, but the Democratic Convention video web site isnâ(TM)t compatible with your operating system and/or browser. Please try again on a computer with the following:"
  Rather like 'stupid'
9. Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site by dpbsmith · 2008-10-13 12:59 · Score: 1
  
  OK. I tried. ll I got was an error message:
  "We're sorry, but the Democratic Convention video web site isn't compatible with your operating system and/or browser. Please try again on a computer with the following:Compatible operating systems:
  Windows XP SP2, Windows Vista, or a Mac with Tiger (OS 10.4) or Leopard (OS 10.5).
  Compatible browsers:
  Internet Explorer (version 6 or later), Firefox (version 2), or, if you are on a Mac, Safari (version 3.1) also works."
  The thing is, I'm using what they themselves say works: Safari version 3.1.2, Mac OS X 10.4.11.
  They are entitled to say what it's compatible with. If it's not compatible with something they declare it to be compatible with, then screw it.
  
  --
  "How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
10. Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site by TerminaMorte · 2008-10-13 14:02 · Score: 1
  
  I'd love to check it out; unfortunately I use an "unsupported" product. As do most of my classmates going through college for CS.
  
  Guess what platform we like using and developing for? :P It's not Windows/Mac.
  
  For the best Democratic Convention video experience, you'll need the Microsoft Silverlight plug-in and the Move Networks media player. We're sorry, but the Democratic Convention video web site isn't compatible with your operating system and/or browser. Please try again on a computer with the following:
  Compatible operating systems:
  
  Windows XP SP2, Windows Vista, or a Mac with Tiger (OS 10.4) or Leopard (OS 10.5).
  Compatible browsers:
  Internet Explorer (version 6 or later), Firefox (version 2), or, if you are on a Mac, Safari (version 3.1) also works.
11. Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site by The+Cisco+Kid · 2008-10-13 14:10 · Score: 1
  
  The practice of a web site checking to see what software you have (or it having any reason to need to) is just insane.
  Almost as absurd if the gas pump is going to start deciding wether my car is compatible with its fuel.
  You want to put information on the web, put *the information* on the web, in a data form in a documented and standards-compliant format. Let the *web browser* decide what formats of data it is capable of displaying.
12. Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site by I'm+Don+Giovanni · 2008-10-13 19:49 · Score: 1
  
  http://nbcolympics.com/ , which uses Silverlight for its videos, is still running as well.
  And there are some very cool Silverlight Deep Zoom sites like http://www.deepzoomobama.com/ , that Flash has no answer for at all.
  
  --
  -- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
13. Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site by Mateo_LeFou · 2008-10-14 01:06 · Score: 1
  
  "put *the information* on the web, in a data form in a documented and standards-compliant format."
  Yeah, right. I don't see how anyone's going to get a Rich Internet Experience(TM) out of that.
  
  --
  My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
14. Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-14 02:37 · Score: 0
  
  But flip through the site and check out the functionality.
  I can't.
  I don't have the needed plugin, and neither can I get it, since it's not actually supported very well outside of Windows (which I don't use, in case you didn't get it.)
  So no flipping for me. Not that I care one bit.
  Microsoft proprietary solutions are so yesterday.
15. Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-14 03:53 · Score: 0
  
  Gee, and it took me a whole 10 seconds to download and install Silverlight 2.0 Like we've never been prompted to download and install a newer Flash version before? Please...
16. Re:Really nice Silverlight sample site by argent · 2008-10-14 06:13 · Score: 1
  
  Gee, and it took me a whole 10 seconds to download and install Silverlight 2.0
  What part of "not supported" do you fail to understand?
More links on the topic by Dragonshed · 2008-10-13 08:32 · Score: 4, Informative

SL Eclipse Tools project
http://www.eclipse4sl.org/
MS Press release (interestly enough, it plans linux as a supported platform)
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2008/oct08/10-13Silverlight2PR.mspx
Silverlight 2 release is imminent.
1. Re:More links on the topic by NullProg · 2008-10-13 12:59 · Score: 0
  
  You obviously work for Microsoft, how about a answering a few questions?
  - What problem of mine will silverlight solve? I can do flash on my Wii, PS3, cell phone, Mac, Linux, and Windows boxes. All with pretty good performance.
  - Why would I even look at silverlight when it won't run on any desktop, mobile device, gaming device not controlled by Microsoft. Both Mono and .Net performance suck compared to Java and Flash on my dual boot desktop. Why would I leave flash?
  - On my tri-boot development box, it doesn't make a difference what technology Microsoft offers when Windows thinks I'm a thief and I have to reinstall the O/S (WGA). If I can't code, I can't work.
  TIA,
  Enjoy,
  
  --
  It's just the normal noises in here.
2. Re:More links on the topic by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 15:46 · Score: 0
  
  sure it may say linux is supported but so far the beta isn't for linux
  http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/resources/install.aspx#sysreq
  I think they will make a crippled version for linux down the road and blame linux
3. Re:More links on the topic by triso · 2008-10-14 09:14 · Score: 1
  
  [...]
  MS Press release (interestly enough, it plans linux as a supported platform)
  If the Linux version ever comes out, I predict it will cause random crashes and Microsoft will blame it on Linux and open source.
Why not use a fully open-source toolkit? by scorp1us · 2008-10-13 08:37 · Score: 3, Interesting

Given that Adobe AIR is based on WebKit, and the OpenSource world has Webkit (Qt has Webkit integrated, but Qt is not required for my suggestion), why don't we just make a fully AIR/Silverlight clone using WebKit and Javascript?

--
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
1. Re:Why not use a fully open-source toolkit? by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 14:43 · Score: 0
  
  You first
The proper way to woo. by bionicpill · 2008-10-13 08:37 · Score: 4, Funny

Everyone knows real developers work on beer, not on Eclipse.
1. Re:The proper way to woo. by CallsignBaron · 2008-10-13 09:51 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Everyone knows real developers work on beer, not on Eclipse.
  No, real developers live on coffee and they fear the daylight. They may actually get more done during an Eclipse.
  
  --
  "I reject your reality and substitue my own." ~ Adam Savage, Mythbuster extraordinaire.
Yes this is fantastic new tech..... by MM-tng · 2008-10-13 08:40 · Score: 1

We are sorry, but the Democratic Convention video web site isn't compatible with your operating system and/or browser. Please try again on a computer with the following: Compatible operating systems: Windows XP SP2, Windows Vista, or a Mac with Tiger (OS 10.4) or Leopard (OS 10.5).
Compatible browsers: Internet Explorer (version 6 or later), Firefox (version 2), or, if you are on a Mac, Safari (version 3.1) also works.
You can also keep up with us in Denver on our main web
Ahhh the memories.....
1. Re:Yes this is fantastic new tech..... by RingDev · 2008-10-13 08:49 · Score: 1
  
  Yup, new technology. Specifically, new technology that isn't designed (by Microsoft) to run on Linux. Luckily, there is the Moonlight project from the same people who brought us Mono.
  But if you want to play the high-horse battle... Gnome 2.24 sucks because it wont install on my PC-Dos operating system!
  -Rick
  
  --
  "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
2. Re:Yes this is fantastic new tech..... by Tweenk · 2008-10-13 10:36 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I installed Moonlight but the same message keeps appearing on the Democratic Convention site, and the Hard Rock Memorabilia site crashes FF. So much for Moonlight. It's a Microsoft perpetrated scam to fool people into thinking that Silverlight is portable to OSes not targeted by Microsoft.
  
  --
  Those who would give up liberty to obtain working drivers, deserve neither liberty nor working drivers.
3. Re:Yes this is fantastic new tech..... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 10:58 · Score: 0
  
  Yup, new technology. Specifically, new technology that isn't designed (by Microsoft) to run on Linux.
  Thus, it doesn't belong on the web, which is supposed to be vendor neutral, just as your Gnome 2.24 doesn't belong on your PC-Dos OS.
  (My captcha was "pretense")
4. Re:Yes this is fantastic new tech..... by markdavis · 2008-10-13 11:39 · Score: 0
  
  Emailed (I had already send Democratic Convention an Email months ago). I suggest everyone complain to such sites whenever they are encountered.
  To: webmaster@hardrock.com
  cc: customer_care@hardrock.com
  Subject: Website is broken
  Are you aware that by using Silverlight ONLY on your http://memorabilia.hardrock.com/, you have completely shut out many thousands of users, including me?
  It is insulting to get a message that it is so "easy" and only takes a "second" to install Silverlight, when that is simply not true. I can't do that on my Linux home computer. Nor my OpenSolaris based laptop. I also can't get to the site on my Nokia N810 tablet nor on my Wii. In fact, I don't own a SINGLE machine here or at work that can view your site because you selected to use Silverlight.
  I hope you give serious consideration to changing your site so everyone, no matter what Operating System they use, can easily view your site!
5. Re:Yes this is fantastic new tech..... by RingDev · 2008-10-13 16:30 · Score: 2
  
  So web developers should only aim to provide text based content because some people refuse to keep up to date?
  Silverlight is currently in beta, soon to be launched. I would imagine that MS will do their damnest to get as much penetration as they can. And that means improving performance on FF (I haven't had it crash yet, but it is much laggier) and working with the folks at Moonlight to get things flowing there.
  But hey, some people complained about this whole 'Netscape Navigator' thing back in the day. It's just some new fangled fad that won't amount to anything...
  For now, Silverlight is competition for Flash. If the competition between the two of them gets us either a flash level of portability in Silverlight, or an ease of development like Silverlight has in Flash, it will be good for us the developers and consumers.
  -Rick
  
  --
  "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
6. Re:Yes this is fantastic new tech..... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 21:43 · Score: 0
  
  Silverlight is currently in beta, soon to be launched.
  So... you're saying that everyone should run beta software on their computers? Well you could argue of course, that if you're already running Windows you are already used to running beta-quality software, but building a site that only runs on beta-software is an epic fail.
  
  I would imagine that MS will do their damnest to get as much penetration as they can.
  Yes. By all means necessary. Until they have reached twice the "penetration" of Flash. Then they will drop support for Moonlight, because its damages their bottom line.
The awful truth about Linux vs Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 08:40 · Score: 0

Althouth I really like Linux and the free software, I think that we have to accept the crushing truth.
In these times it really doesn't matter if is launched KDE 35.0 or Gnome Whistler, because while both environments (and others with less weight like IceWM) were worrying in confuse the user with a completely different aspect, Microsoft was consolidating his position as the leader in the field of the operating systems, first with the operating system Windows XP (that have approximately 90% of the market on the client side) and with its advanced successor, the recently Windows Vista, that offers a new form to interact with our PCs. Is faster, friendlier, and secure.
The reality is that Linux has little to offer to the inexperienced user. The same novice that is seen disconcerted by the impossibility to do a simple copy-paste between QT and GTK applications. If you don't believe me, go out and ask to the people how they install a program that does NOT have packages for their distribution (because each one has its own packege system, completely incompatible with the others, and requires the use of complicated commands). Even RPM packages can't be installed equally in Mandriva and SuSE.
Then what we suggest to this user (that is just beginning in the Unix Word) is that he need to download the source code, open the console, decompress it and compile it. How many people get to do it? One of each a million, I have to say. We persist in THAT is the normal thing... nothing more far from reality.
Explain him why in his Ubuntu, Kubuntu or Fedora, he cannot see many web pages: he must download the Flash and the Java plugin, in order to install them with complicated commands. Also make him know that he won't be able to listen his MP3, WMA and WMV files. Tell to the flaming buyer of a new AMD64 how he can play flash games. A shit.
And the gamers? Obviously they'll return to windows, because even God can't use the hardware acceleration of the most modern graphics cards (besides, the drivers don't come included with the distributions... becuase of "freedom"). How many games can be run on Linux?... just a few ones. By each Linux videogame we have 500 that run on Windows. And the few ones that run on Linux...Oh! Surprise!...Just Windows binaries on the CD, and you have to download the Linux version from a website. Finally the user returns to the best option, the most used OS in homes (we know what OS is).
The proof of the free software failure is seen also in the professional world, either in areas like electronic design (doesn't exist anything similar to Protel), architecture (the standard CAD -all we know wich one-only works on Windows), web design (something similar to Dreamweaver? Don't mention me something like NVU, that not only is full of bugs, but just have the 5% of the Dreamweaver features. Neither Bluefish, Quanta or similars... no one would face a complex project with such a primitive tools). DTP? Scribus is a good try (very immature) but Quark or InDesign are far batter. Flash content creation (a standard, and a flash player installed in the 99% of PCs)? It cannot be done on Linux.
In the software development industry there's not a single decent RAD tool. Gambas seems to promise, but for now is shit; Eclipse is a RAM eater (thanks Java) that can only be used with 2GB RAM; Kylix promised to give us the potential of Delphi to Linux, but it was discontinued because the developers hate to pay for licenses and they prefer to use a primitive tool, like KDevelop. And now that we talk about Borland tools, is not rare that programming gurus like Ian Marteens abandoned Delphi and C++ Builder and now prefer the most powerful system for software development: Microsoft Visual Studio.NET.
A computer game developer would not develop free (as in free spech) games, because they have to eat and there's not a business model compatible with free software. The Linux users don't want free (as in free spech) games, they just want commercial quality without pay a single buck.
Accounting softwa
1. Re:The awful truth about Linux vs Microsoft by alexmin · 2008-10-13 11:55 · Score: 1
  
  "And You? Where do you want to go today?" - me is going to insanely expensive restaurant to spend a fraction of profits made today using Linux and console apps.
  And you? Going to click-a-rama session because you cannot script tasks properly on the only "real" platform?
2. Re:The awful truth about Linux vs Microsoft by lamapper · 2008-10-13 20:36 · Score: 1
  
  You have some valid points, however some of the information you posted appears dated and probably needs to be updated.
  Except for Microsoft Specific games (I don't like apps like WINE that just slow me down) most of what a newbie user needs works out of the case, plug and play, as the millions of new ultra notebooks sold at $399 since before last Xmas show. I am hoping to run MS on top of Xen / Linux, thus controlling the security problems by putting MS in its own sand box that I can control - probably a pipe dream, no pun intended.
  Not only am I using an utlra notebook now, even though I have access to many other towers and PCs, I have some kids and some friends converted to use them as well. Why buy one machine for one person, when you can buy three for three people with the same amount of money? The kids only complaint is not being able to run the Microsoft games. They surf the net just fine and can do their homework without issues.
  As for Silverlight and NBC, I just watched the Olympics on HDTV. They don't give me a non MS option, I find a different source, problem solved.
  Silverlight becomes a non issue as there are always more sources available for any information online, as applications move to servers on the internet (aren't you glad I did not say those fluffy white things that float around the sky) it becomes even more of a non issue. The future looks bright!
  
  --
  Is your Internet Throttled? Install DD-Wrt, OpenWRT or Tomato to learn the truth! Google: 1Gbps/1Gbps: 5 Communities
3. Re:The awful truth about Linux vs Microsoft by david_thornley · 2008-10-14 05:42 · Score: 1
  
  and with its advanced successor, the recently Windows Vista, that offers a new form to interact with our PCs. Is faster, friendlier, and secure.
  
  And here's where your credibility dropped to zero. You may consider Vista friendlier (the default GUI is much prettier, if somewhat less functional), but I find XP does more of what I want. I have found Vista sluggish (on a powerful machine). It is probably more secure than XP, but it's certainly too soon to say it's secure.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Lovely rant, but I have to know one thing by Weaselmancer · 2008-10-13 08:47 · Score: 5, Funny

How the hell did you get all that in there fast enough to be the top page post? I just picture someone foaming at the mouth and typing so fast hummingbirds are frightened.
I have my problems with Microsoft too, but damn. Go outside. Walk a park. Read a book. You don't need an ulcer at your age.

--
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
1. Re:Lovely rant, but I have to know one thing by martinw89 · 2008-10-13 09:12 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Actually, I imagine this as some late 30s, early 40s year old guy living in his mom's basement with trollish rants ready to copy and paste. He also has a barbecue sauce stain on his shirt.
  Actually, that's how I see all trolls.
2. Re:Lovely rant, but I have to know one thing by I'm+not+really+here · 2008-10-13 09:13 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Automated script to find the word Microsoft in a posted story, and auto post as anonymous coward with a pre-"recorded" tirade against Microsoft. Note how it didn't specifically address the Silverlight platform. This was a canned response, and one put in by someone with way to much time on their hands to code something to do this for them (or too much time to sit around while Firefox refreshes the page every minute until they see a Microsoft story and pounce).
  
  Microsoft is not a single entity... Microsoft is made up of thousands of employees, and I'm sure there are some who work with Silverlight that really really want this to be the next Flash.
  
  I personally would be very upset if Silverlight became a common tool, due to the frustrations with implementing it outside of IE.
  
  --
  Before commenting on the Bible, please read it first
3. Re:Lovely rant, but I have to know one thing by omnipresentbob · 2008-10-13 10:12 · Score: 1
  
  Walk a park
  I think the majority people would find this difficult to do. Most parks are rather stationary.
4. Re:Lovely rant, but I have to know one thing by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 10:16 · Score: 0
  
  It's a chili stain, jerk.
5. Re:Lovely rant, but I have to know one thing by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 10:39 · Score: 0
  
  Once upon a time there were three billy goats, who were to go up to the hillside
  to make themselves fat, and the name of all three was "Cowboyneil."
  On the way up was a bridge over a cascading stream they had to cross; and under
  the bridge lived a great ugly troll , with eyes as big as saucers, and a nose as
  long as a poker.
  So first of all came the youngest Billy Goat Cowboyneil to cross the bridge.
  "Trip, trap, trip, trap! " went the bridge.
  "Who's that tripping over my bridge?" roared the troll .
  "Oh, it is only I, the tiniest Billy Goat Gruff , and I'm going up to the
  hillside to make myself fat," said the billy goat, with such a small voice.
  "http://goatse.cz/," said the troll.
  "WTF, that's fucking sick," said the billy goat.
  "Wait a bit till the second Billy Goat Cowboyneil comes. He uses CyberPatrol!"
  "M$ suckors," said the troll.
  A little while after came the second Billy Goat Coybowneil to cross the bridge.
  Trip, trap, trip, trap, trip, trap, went the bridge.
  "Who's that tripping over my bridge?" roared the troll.
  "Oh, it's the second Billy Goat Coybowneil , and I'm going up to the hillside to make
  myself fat," said the billy goat, who hadn't such a small voice.
  "http://2girls1cup.com," said the troll.
  "You sick son of a bitch. Wait a little till the big Billy Goat Cowboyneil comes. He works for American Airlines!"
  "Apple fanbois suck dick," said the troll.
  But just then up came the big Billy Goat Cowboyneil .
  Trip, trap, trip, trap, trip, trap! went the bridge, for the billy goat was so
  heavy that the bridge creaked and groaned under him.
  "Who's that tramping over my bridge?" roared the troll.
  "It's I! The big Billy Goat Coyboyneil ," said the billy goat, who had an ugly hoarse
  voice of his own.
  "Now I 'm coming to gobble you up," roared the troll.
  Well, come along! I've got two spears,
  And I'll poke your eyeballs out at your ears;
  I've got besides two curling-stones,
  And I'll crush you to bits, body and bones.
  That was what the big billy goat said. And then he flew at the troll, and poked
  his eyes out with his horns, and crushed him to bits, body and bones, and tossed
  him out into the cascade, and after that he went up to the hillside. There the
  billy goats got so fat they were scarcely able to walk home again. And if the
  fat hasn't fallen off them, why, they're still fat; and so,
  Snip, snap, snout.
  This tale's told out.
6. Re:Lovely rant, but I have to know one thing by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 22:14 · Score: 0
  
  hmmmmm his rant 4 sentences, yours 2
  not bad u'll catch up soon
  happy ulcer
7. Re:Lovely rant, but I have to know one thing by genner · 2008-10-14 01:52 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, I imagine this as some late 30s, early 40s year old guy living in his mom's basement with trollish rants ready to copy and paste. He also has a barbecue sauce stain on his shirt.
  Actually, that's how I see all trolls.
  Hey now I finally got my own apartment and my shirt is clean.....because my mom still does my laundry.
Embraced and extended already? by argent · 2008-10-13 08:48 · Score: 1

In addition, Goldfarb said the new Silverlight 2.0 player comes with a cut-down version of Microsoft's .Net runtime. That means that .Net developers -- Microsoft says there are 4 million of them -- can build Silverlight applications purely through .Net.
So, is this cut-down .NET runtime compatible with the Mono cut-down .NET environment that Moonlight is built on, or not?
So, does this mean...pictures. by Ostracus · 2008-10-13 08:59 · Score: 1

"Flash sucks, a lot. The sooner we have another cross platform app for doing online animations and movies the better."
SVG and SMIL so where's my viewer?

--
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
I tire of the likes of you.. by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 08:59 · Score: 0

who simply refuse to understand.
It has nothing to do with being pro or anti-microsoft. It has to do with being pro choice. And as usual, we are not getting any.
Just an example: We, the Dutch, have a national broadcast system much like the BBC, payed for with tax money. Lately anything of interest on their website (for example the olympics) is only availabe in silverlight or drm-ed wmv.
If I want to see the olympics online, or anything else worth watching, I am being coerced in using Microsoft Silverlight and therefor buying Microsoft Windows.
In other words, i'm paying taxes to be forced to pay the microsoft tax. If you don't understand how wrong this is I certainly can't explain.
Oh, Please! by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 09:00 · Score: 0

I think that you are glossing over three decades of Microsoft stifling innovation, ...
Steve Jobs would have to disagree with you there.
They had nothing to do with the internet and somehow, that innovation made it. And don't forget that MS was one of the last folks to jump on the internet bandwagon and because of them, I don't have to pay for a browser. They released theirs for free thereby forcing everyone else to give away theirs. Which I think was good because Netscape was highly overrated even in its day.
Bullying? I have never seen any evidence of "bullying" by Microsoft. I have seen evidence of sour grapes from others in the industry *Cough* Larry Ellison, Scott McNealy, Metcalfe *cough*. Actually, Metcalfe, from the impression that I got from TV interviews, seams to think that a causal conversation is a contract or something. (Geeze! For such a brilliant guy, talk about not having any business sense!) But even then, he walked away with hundred of millions of dollars from other deals. But according to him, he's such a victim. Boo hoo hoo!
On the other hand, there's been a few folks (thoussands, actually) who became quite wealthy because of MS and they're laughing at the folks who think MS is some big bad evil empire as a bunch of whiny geeky twerps.
1. Re:Oh, Please! by aztracker1 · 2008-10-13 09:19 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I would disagree strongly that MS hasn't done any bullying... they've done a lot of it regarding OEMs, and in particular in the Win16 days regarding other versions of DOS. More recently, they did a lot to undercut Netscape Server out of the loop (not that it didn't deserve it). I absolutely hate the levels of registration/validation in Windows now, and even in Office.
  
  MS adds a lot of value to what they offer, but that doesn't mean they get a free pass regarding transgressions of the past. However, on its' own merit, I find the .Net stack (especially since 2005) to be really nice, and that includes the upcoming release of Silverlight.
  
  --
  Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
2. Re:Oh, Please! by gbjbaanb · 2008-10-13 10:47 · Score: 1
  
  However, on its' own merit, I find the .Net stack (especially since 2005) to be really nice,/i>
  that's exactly the problem......... see, MS has panicked when it realised a lot of developers jumped ship for mobile, internet and Linux based development platforms, so it reorganised significantly around their new programming platform and spent a lot of marketing money persuading you that it was the only game in town. Added some syntactic sugar and a new IDE and you've fallen at their feet declaring undying love. And now you'll be writing .NET apps, that run on... Windows only.
  I do think Mono is a curve ball to the plans that they didn't expect (ok, maybe not the developers at the bottom, but the executives at the top, charged with making money for MS shareholders and bringing in ever-increasing growth of windows software), the question is what they will do about it. I don't think anyone is naive enough to think MS will sit back and say 'no problem' if everyone starts developing in Mono and leaving Windows for a more credit-crunch friendly platform.
  Currently they're happy with their domination of the developer mindset, give us fancy tools, 'easy to use' framework and we all go back to Visual Studio, Expression Blend, SQL Server, Windows Server... and they make a ton of money and laugh at the other 'failed' platforms that looked so promising as free/open source grew.
  Its a pretty interesting time at the moment, MS is fighting back against Linux and Google, .NET is the weapon they're using. I don't know how it'll pan out but .NET is not an altruistic platform-agnostic development system. Its really designed to make you into a Windows developer, developing Windows-only software just like the last few years.
3. Re:Oh, Please! by markdavis · 2008-10-13 11:21 · Score: 1
  
  Mono isn't a "curveball". In fact, MS *loves* Mono, because they can point to it and say "see, .NET is multiplatform", when it really isn't. Parts of it might be, in THEORY. In practice, Mono is ALWAYS going to be an incompatible, lagging-behind, afterthought. It's existence might actually do more to damage platform neutrality by luring people into thinking that .NET (and Silverlight) is going to make everyone happy... it isn't.
4. Re:Oh, Please! by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 18:14 · Score: 0
  
  They released theirs for free thereby forcing everyone else to give away theirs.
  
  you said that as though what they did was admirable. "buying out" looking glass in exchange for a portion of the profits made selling the browser, and then giving it away for free thereby screwing the actual devs out of any money at all is NOT in any way admirable. it seems you have a very selective memory
5. Re:Oh, Please! by gbjbaanb · 2008-10-13 20:22 · Score: 1
  
  ok, I chose poor a poor term ... but you're exactly right.
  At the moment, I see a lot of devs writing .NET code, and wanting to slap a WPF GUI on them, Mono doesn't support this, and apparently won't for ages. So immediately you see Mono being cross platform only for a subset of applications (eg server). I think MS will be happy with that.
I got tired of it too... by argent · 2008-10-13 09:06 · Score: 3, Insightful

As a developer, isn't the point to write better/more robust code?
I used to be platform-agnostic and hardware-agnostic, but after a few rounds of companies pulling platforms out from under me... "better" code that depends on a single vendor is something I have to look long and hard into before I'm going to jump on board. I don't care whether it's called NextStep or .NET, SmallTalk* or BeOS, if it's under the effective control of a single company it's pre-doomed. Over the past 30 years I've been burned too many times to trust ANY proprietary platform.
take better advantage of the rich Internet experience
Another buzz-phrase that was just as scary when it was the rich Desktop experience. That turned into a Microsoft-controlled virus hive. Not going there again.
I tend to use the best tools available
Me too, so long as nobody can pull those tools out from under me because they went out of business or changed their goals. I don't care so much whether it's open source or not, so long as there's multiple sources out there.
1. Re:I got tired of it too... by The+Cisco+Kid · 2008-10-13 14:03 · Score: 1
  
  Of course, if its about software tools, generally the tools that arent free and open, also don't have multiple sources.
2. Re:I got tired of it too... by argent · 2008-10-13 22:36 · Score: 1
  
  Of course, if its about software tools, generally the tools that arent free and open, also don't have multiple sources.
  That doesn't make things any simpler... it's more important than ever to understand the differences between "free as in speech" and "free as in beer" and "open source" and "open systems".
  There's even free-as-in-speech tools that aren't open in the open-systems sense, because they have a single implementation. Most open-source scripting languages, for example... which makes Live^WJava^WECMAscript one of the most open scripting languages out there despite the lack of a good open command-line implementation because it's got worse runtime-dependance then Modula ever did. And of course in contrast the open-systems software platform - UNIX - is available in multiple open- and closed-source forms.
  And Mono itself is an open source implementation of a very proprietary system... and I'm more than a bit concerned about Silverlight now being extended to include "a subset of .NET" when there's no guarantee that subset will match the subset of .NET that Mono implements now and in the future.
  Meanwhile Flash is free-as-in-beer but not open-source, but because its scripting is based on the VERY open ECMAscript there's been a lot of work on implementing it to try and turn it into a mostly-open-systems platform.
  Then there's proprietary-but-publicly-documented web services like Google's. And closed-and-open-license systems like Qt...
  And the people who started the whole open systems thing, and the open source thing, they're all still alive, so I can't really come up with a nice snappy "X-is-spinning-in-his-grave" signoff...
Re:Ugh, I tire of this..."online experience" by hAckz0r · 2008-10-13 09:07 · Score: 1

Or lack there of...
If Microsoft wants to change the world I suggest they try to create a tool that will just 'run anywhere'. Sure, they could create the killer Developer environment and drive the droves of mindless programmers to their wonderful platform, I'm all for it, but at the end of the day if I can't run the final application on my platform then its just useless. What irks me is that Microsoft puts so much time, effort, and money into making sure I can't run it on (pick your platform of choice, any, just not written by Microsoft) platform X. All Microsoft has to do to get my support is to stop keeping others from interoperating. This this 'experience' you want to talk about is just a usability issue of the 'Internet', which Microsoft seems to think should be renamed to the 'Inter-NOT'. When I can run Silverlight on any platform that Microsoft didn't write, then and only then, will I give it the light of day.
prefering open web stack instead by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 09:10 · Score: 0

SVG and colleagues
Just a few examples at http://svg.startpagina.nl
Re:The crushing truth about Windows by Ethanol-fueled · 2008-10-13 09:11 · Score: 1

You posted the same damn thing in the last discussion. Wow, 2 FP's in a row, good for you, but could you please write at least one separate troll for each discussion? How about a Goatse?
more useless crap by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 09:25 · Score: 0

Great, just what we need, another betamax platform with a bunch of "developers" (script-zombie point and click fanboys).
Your sig is too specific... by ConceptJunkie · 2008-10-13 09:35 · Score: 1

'I disagree with you therefore you're biased.' - every Microsoft Fanboi
That should be attributed to a large percentage of people on every discussion forum on the Internet. Frankly I think it's much worse when it comes to politics than with technical subjects.
Another one which is even worse and almost as ubiquitous:
"You disagree with me, which is a personal attack. You are evil. I hate you."
I have never been more viciously attacked than by people by people who cannot make this distinction.

--
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
1. Re:Your sig is too specific... by Foofoobar · 2008-10-13 09:55 · Score: 1
  
  True, it's every person who cannot overcome personal feelings to look at the real issue. For both of those. But in this case, It's specific to the forum and the people who most often choose to flame here; For open source advocates, Slashdot is their territory and Microsoft people often come here just to bash. Some are less agressive, some more devious (ie I use said open source tool all the time but I a friend introduced me to said Microsoft tool and now I am an instant Microsoft tool) and others are true engineers who understand that Microsoft tools have their uses and open source tools have their uses and truly wish that Microsoft would work with the other development communities to be more cross platform as well.
  
  To those few engineers within the Microsoft fold, I salute you for still retaining you engineering instincts. Everyone else, I deride and laugh.
  
  --
  This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
2. Re:Your sig is too specific... by KGIII · 2008-10-13 17:09 · Score: 1
  
  It seems we are, or as it were, discussing your signature. If we're to degrade to digression then, if you will allow, let me bring to light my own point of view.
  I disagree with you because you are biased.
  I dislike fanbois of all types because they are so unbiased that they will not accept the truth.
  The truth is, as I see it, that everyone has the right to pick the tools that help them get their job done the best that they can using as little amount of time as they need to spend to do said task while gaining maximum enjoyment from performing said task.
  To me the very idea that I should force a view on someone is wrong. The very idea that I should encourage someone to believe as I do smacks of religious dogma. I'm not sure if some people are totalitarianism in nature or if their finding their own new religion and becoming profits of the day.
  I think that it may be zealotry and bigotry that remain the downfalls of Mac, Linux, Unix, etc...
  "I use _____ so I am better than you."
  "I believe in _____ so I am better than you."
  "I see _____ in our future so I am better than you."
  If we step out of the belief, dogma if you will, and be objective about what we really believe freedom to be we may all figure out that it doesn't really matter so long as the job gets done and people are happy. Pleasure is under-rated and often much easier to find than people seem to believe.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
3. Re:Your sig is too specific... by NickFortune · 2008-10-13 21:31 · Score: 1
  
  The truth is, as I see it, that everyone has the right to pick the tools that help them get their job done the best that they can using as little amount of time as they need to spend to do said task while gaining maximum enjoyment from performing said task.
  
  Oh, certainly, everyone has that right. That said .... I don't think those are the only considerations that should matter.
  
  To me the very idea that I should force a view on someone is wrong.
  
  OK, I can go along with that. Key word here being "force", of course. Visiting entire communities with Fire and Sword unless they bow down and worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster is clearly a bad thing. Arguing with someone on Slashdot is something of a grey area in comparison.
  
  The very idea that I should encourage someone to believe as I do smacks of religious dogma. I'm not sure if some people are totalitarianism in nature or if their finding their own new religion and becoming profits of the day.
  
  See, now this is where you lost me. Take someone like Louis Pasteur who worked long and hard to get people to accept the idea that disease was caused by germs, and that simply washing your hands before eating or preparing food could vastly improve people's health. Was he wrong to encourage all those people to believe as he did? I'd have thought the benefits were undeniable.
  Now personally, I think free software also has the potential to make life better for everyone, and therefore I do encourage people to adopt its use. That said, I don't think the social and economic benefits are the only considerations, or necessarily the most important considerations. In the long run though, I think free software is a better way of doing things, and I don't see anything wrong in a little polite advocacy.
  
  If we step out of the belief, dogma if you will, and be objective about what we really believe freedom to be
  
  So I should step out of my belief, and then step into into yours? But then aren't you being all dogmatic and religious when you say that? That's the problem with trying to stigmatise persuasion as you seem to be trying to do - it makes simple discussion unethical. I can't see that as being a good thing under any circumstances.
  I really think you need to think this one through again.
  
  --
  Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
4. Re:Your sig is too specific... by KGIII · 2008-10-14 01:18 · Score: 1
  
  I'd do the quote thing but that is way too much work at this early hour.
  Hmm... In the case of Louis I'd say he should have just put it out there and then answered questions if people approached him. In his case he was right but for every right thinking person out there there seem to be two or three others yelling just as loudly.
  And, finally, you shouldn't step out of your belief and into mine, you should find your own path. I like mine so I think you should but you're not supposed to take my word on it.
  By the way, I'm not at all sure how prophets became profits in my mind other than to say I was really remarkably high. 'Tis that season in the area. As I look at my other posts from last night that one was the only really bizarre one.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
5. Re:Your sig is too specific... by Foofoobar · 2008-10-14 05:34 · Score: 1
  
  I think that it may be zealotry and bigotry that remain the downfalls of Mac, Linux, Unix,etc...
  How convenient you named all the ones based upon open platforms (yes BSD is fairly open) but left out something that remains to open anything. Psychologically, when someone closes a door in front of you and says 'No Blanks allowed' isn't that considered bigotry?? But you seem to apply it to those who open the door and say, 'everyone allowed'. I don't think you understand the word bigotry sir and should probably take a long look in the mirror.
  
  --
  This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
Patented media codecs by janwedekind · 2008-10-13 09:40 · Score: 1

From the Moonlight website:

The Microsoft Media Pack will be a product distributed by Microsoft that includes a license to the various media codecs for video and audio and will be available from Microsoft's web site for Moonlight to consume.
That does not sound like open source to me!
Interesing Details by scorp1us · 2008-10-13 09:43 · Score: 1
Qt+Webkit:
- Both support JS,
- Are both Open Source (Commercial Qt apps can be linked against the OpenSource version)
- Both are compilable on just about every platform.
- Qt provides the ability to embed a Qt custom control into WebKit, and expose it to JS for scripting. You can even use Java with it if you're a byte-code purist.
It seems the Qt+WebKit combo is only in need of convenience functions to make it more appealing.
--
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
more junk to install... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 09:44 · Score: 0

@#!! Silverlight @#!!
yet another piece of crap I have to install on my computer in order to view a web page!!
And they have mail problems... by argent · 2008-10-13 09:56 · Score: 1

I decided to send them some mail, letting them know that they were setting a bad example, and mail to their contact address got stuck in an SNTP look going through smtp-red001.mail.microsoftonline.com.
Oh my.
No mobile? by caywen · 2008-10-13 10:09 · Score: 1

Wake me up when they support iPhone and WinMo. For that matter, wake me up when they have *Flash* for iPhone :-) Also, I propose a Silverlight interpreter written in Flash. I think they should call it Flashlight.
1. Re:No mobile? by The+Cisco+Kid · 2008-10-13 14:16 · Score: 1
  
  No one in their right mind develops anything except entertainment and game sites in flash.
  I am quite content that the iPhone has no flash, and hope that the desire to be accesible from an iPhone drives any site that currently requires flash just to access the site to ditch it, or at least make a non-flash alternative. (I'm looking at you, GrandCentral, although I suppose you're boycotting the iPhone and are holding out for Android).
Microsoft highlights Silverlight on Linux by ThaReetLad · 2008-10-13 10:26 · Score: 2, Interesting

Why don't you go to the microsoft silverlight site? OK, the presentation is a pretty awful case of marketeering, but what's interesting is that it makes a point of being cross platform and supporting a range of browsers, on windows, mac and linux. The presentation highlights mobile internet on phone, which makes me suspect that a silverlight implementation for mobile devices is just around the corner.

--
You can't win Darth. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
1. Re:Microsoft highlights Silverlight on Linux by ConceptJunkie · 2008-10-13 11:03 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  You assume I care. The only reason I tried to install Silverlight was because Microsoft suggested it in order to take advantage of their new download features. I tried it and it failed miserably. I don't even run Windows any more. I'll care if some online app I want to use requires it, _and_ I can get it running with a minimum of trouble. I'm through fighting and clawing and groveling to get Microsoft crap to work. They get one chance, and if it fails as utterly as Silverlight did for me, then I quit. Sorry, this is 2008, not 1983. Software made by a company with billions of dollars and tens of thousands of employees should occasionally work and if, after all the hundreds if not thousands of dollars Microsoft has extorted from me over the past 20 years being a customer of theirs I have to put up with hassle on top of it, then I have no patience.
  
  --
  You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Re:The crushing truth about Windows by stonedcat · 2008-10-13 10:36 · Score: 0

The reality is that Windows Vista has litter to offer to the average user.
So Vista is useful to pet owners?

--
You can't take the sky from me.
I'll say it... somebody has to by renegadesx · 2008-10-13 10:48 · Score: 1

The Flash player on Linux sucks, its pretty dodgy, crashes alot and then when you move to 64-bit... whoa! So far Gnash doesn't handle flash video the best, especially YouTube. If Moonlight is able to make it into many distros as open source, this may be the way to do things.

--
Make SELinux enforcing again!
1. Re:I'll say it... somebody has to by howlingmadhowie · 2008-10-13 19:01 · Score: 1
  
  i'd have thought the way forward is to get decent svg rendering in firefox/konqueror. then you wouldn't need flash.
Goldfarb by naasking · 2008-10-13 10:57 · Score: 2, Funny

The latter, said Goldfarb, should make it easier for would-be Silverlight developers."
I'm glad to see Microsoft's goblin integration program is still going strong.

--
Higher Logics: where programming meets science.
Re:Spoof your user_agent by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 11:01 · Score: 0

If you have Moonlight you can probably get the site to work by spoofing your user_agent to a supported platform.
Moonlight is GPL - come help out! by benwaggoner · 2008-10-13 13:22 · Score: 1

Except that a plugin is not available on Linux. MS touts Moonlight as a nearly complete port of Silverlight to Linux but in fact it's very far from being usable - even Gnash is light years ahead of Moonlight when compared with their closed source versions.
Bear in mind Moonlight is GPL'ed. The appropriate response on Slashdot is, I believe, "if you want it, start writing some code" :).
A good post on this topic from my colleague Alex Zambelli:
http://alexzambelli.com/blog/2008/08/16/moonlight-20-help-wanted/

--

My video compression blog
1. Re:Moonlight is GPL - come help out! by rdebath · 2008-10-13 18:32 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  And I don't want it, so I won't.
  Likewise Microsoft aren't helping so they don't want it either; in fact they are actively hindering with their usual technique of making Silverlight a moving target.
2. Re:Moonlight is GPL - come help out! by benwaggoner · 2008-10-14 04:20 · Score: 1
  
  Likewise Microsoft aren't helping so they don't want it either; in fact they are actively hindering with their usual technique of making Silverlight a moving target.
  Eh? It's an in development technology! How exactly could it NOT be a moving target? There's been breaking changes documentation available for quite a while indicating what was different from Beta 2 to the final version.
  In more relevant news, there's now Microsoft-funded Eclipse support for Silverlight coming
  http://www.eclipse4sl.org/
  
  --
  
  My video compression blog
Re:The crushing truth about Windows by emailandthings · 2008-10-13 14:26 · Score: 0

So long Flash... so long... oh wait.. not everybody is a b0rg...
MIcrosoft new plan by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-13 17:44 · Score: 0

Same as the old plan:
1.Embrace
2.Extend
3.Extinguish
4.???
5.Profit
Tag it from now on "WorksForNow" by symbolset · 2008-10-13 18:27 · Score: 2, Insightful

From now until the end of time Microsoft's cross platform adventures should be tagged "Works For Now". As their DRM brand "Plays For Sure" should have been called "Plays For Now", as their "Internet Explorer" languished free of development until a challenger arose, the only thing certain about Microsoft product development is that there will come a day when utility is deprecated to further Microsoft's perceived economic interests. As soon as they perceive that either they have market ownership or that market ownership cannot be achieved they abandon further development. This is not progress.

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Comment removed by account_deleted · 2008-10-13 20:41 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion
must...resist! by cyclomedia · 2008-10-13 22:15 · Score: 2, Funny

developers developers developers developers
developers developers developers developers
developers developers developers developers
*throws chair*
*throws chair*
developers developers developers developers
developers developers developers developers
developers developers developers developers
G.P.L.
G.P.L.?
G...P...L...!!??
Not the...
G...P...L...!!!!
developers...
[well the karma was nice while it lasted]

--
If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
1. Re:must...resist! by Richard_at_work · 2008-10-13 23:35 · Score: 1
  
  Did you intend this to go exactly to the 'Badger Badger...' tune? ;)
More crappy mandatory plugins by Anonymous Coward · 2008-10-16 17:35 · Score: 0

I'm usually pretty critical about what MS does because their work generally consists of copying other companies ideas in a half-baked manner and releasing them as the next-big-thing. Of course there are exceptions.
Why Silverlight has potential:
There are a lot of M$ fanboy developers who are itching to jump on the bandwagon and use anything M$ has created (IE sheepole).
It may actually work better than flash and provide some competition for the developers of flash and actionscript to make improvements.
Why Silverlight can S*** my B***:
I am forced to download yet another plugin just to continue my regular every day web browsing.
The fact that I still need a version of Apple's LickMine to play Apple's proprietary formats on my system is enough to constantly remind me that Apple should go F*** themselves.
One of my personal computing goals is to have an environment that has few apps that are great at what they do, and to keep the performance of my personal experience the fastest it can be by eliminating unnecessary apps that I would otherwise have to download/install/update, etc... This is the main reason why I dread buying anything from hp (because of the time I have to waste removing their spyware/marketing crap). Now M$ is adding another contentious member to my s*** list. F*** you Ballmer.