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Barack Obama Wins US Presidency
Last night, around 11pm, all the major networks announced that Senator Barack Obama had won the election. Soon after, Senator McCain conceded. There were no crazy partisan court hearings, just a simple election. This is your chance to talk about it and what it means for the future of our nation.
It means the Democrats finally have a chance to screw everything up. By my count there are 56 D to 40 R in the Senate and 251 D to 173 R in the House. While there's still a few undecided yet, that's Democratic control of the Legislative and Executive Branches. Normally I like to see these things divided between the two parties so nobody gets too far away from lagom.
My work here is dung.
Rev. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream".
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Let's hope
As a european citizen, thank USA!
The whole world agrees with those sentiments.
MABASPLOOM!
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I firmly believe that Barack Obama is going to bring the change we need to alter the way the world see us. We need to earn back a little of our reputation that the eight previous years have lost us. We need to talk, discuss, and use diplomacy instead of force. I'm very glad that Obama won. I sincerely hope that he can keep all his promises he made to the American people, and with control of the house and senate, it looks likely that he won't have any trouble passing bills.
--"Forget the nectar of the Gods, just give me some Mountain Dew."
The party of big government soundly defeated the other party of big government.
Too bad for those of us who think the government is getting dangerously big.
15 million people are employed by, and have a vested interest in an the size and power of, the federal government, let alone state and local.
I can't tell if this is a joke or not, but people all over the world are laughing at the notion of Obama being a socialist. As in the 90s, at least we can rejoice over the lesser of two evils winning.
Under Bush we all got "Stimulus checks" redistribution of wealth, we "nationalized banks", we "nationalized insurance companies", we "nationalized brokerage houses", and we gave trillions in welfare to Iraq...
And now you're worried about socialism? Welcome to last year.
Thanks to eating disorders most chicks are reasonably good looking these days.
Why? Is Obama really that much better than McCain? Would McCain have been worse than Bush? I just saw two complete liars campaigning. Obama just got away with telling bigger lies. The only thing I can hope for is that the Republicans can filibuster the Democrats' bills. Not so much to push a Republican agenda, but to keep either party from screwing us any more than they currently do.
Molog
So Linus, what are we going to do tonight?
The same thing we do every night Tux. Try to take over the world!
An off the rails presidency and party received a swift rebuke to restore the core values enshrined in the constitution.
Meanwhile, the China Credit Card bill needs payment and the global economy is entering a bad recession.
The political shift in the country is probably a game changer for the Democratic party for the next two decades.
Hope because the idiots that have been running the country for nearly a decade are gone, fear that the new bunch of idiots aren't any better.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
The democrats now control the house, senate, and the presidency. I think "dear god" might be more appropriate.
Finally we can tax ourselves into prosperity!
Who wants to take bets on:
Us not withdrawing from Iraq?
Whether most slashdotters with decent IT careers end up paying more taxes?
Don't take this wrong, McCain sucks too. I just wish people would stop drinking from either coolaid.
Where have you been the past 8 years?
Anyway, I can't say Obama would be significantly better (or worse) than McCain, McCain just too much risk of Palin becoming president. I think she would have made us look back on the "golden years of Bush"
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
Nicely put!
As far as the new president is concerned: the guy has a lot of shit to clean up now, and we don't even know what's still coming. He will have to take a lot of unpopular measures, and I really wonder if he can keep a high popularity for long.
molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
Sounds great, I think. Finally, no more lunatic right wing ideology running the country.
No, I know many of use who belive in God who voted Obama.
And if people were truely sick of being treated like shit, there would be 3rd party candidates in the house and senate, enough of them were up for election!
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
I have never seen such hysteria for a candidate in my life. With the type of overwrought messianic expectations that he faces, there is no way to go for Obama but down.
I'm not saying that he deserves it, but when these pie-in-the-sky types realize that he is human like the rest, and that he won't be able to wipe the tear from every eye, his approval rating will take a serious hit.
The whole world agrees with those sentiments
Because, just like US voters, they have no idea what's just been done. Voting for ambigious, platitudinous "change" is nothing more than making a blank canvas out of a guy that it's soothing to vote for because electing him has the sidebar benefit of taking a bit of race resentment off the table. If you listened to his speech last night (even if you've missed so many others), you heard one thing: he was about the campaign, and about the process of being elected. That's what he was most proud of, not some mandate or vision (since neither has been clearly expressed, nor promised). His supporters are in for the same rude awakening he is, when it comes to the reality of him getting his first ever real job.
There are, though, two silver linings. First, at least the senate isn't a supermajority rubber stamp. Second, when he runs for re-election next time, it can finally involve looking at some sort of actual record of his - and a whole lot of people who were caught up the historical significance of skin color can come back to their senses and realize they're hiring someone for an actual executive job, not trying to win a high school debate on style points.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I have never seen such hysteria for a candidate in my life. With the type of overwrought messianic expectations that he faces, there is no way to go for Obama but down.
I'm not saying that he deserves it, but when these pie-in-the-sky types realize that he is human like the rest, and that he won't be able to wipe the tear from every eye, his approval rating will take a serious hit.
As far as a good part of the rest of the world...we don't think you elected a messiah. We're just glad you didn't elect the 3rd incarnation of the fucking antichrist.
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
A person who lived through the collapse of the soviet union once pointed out that in America, the only relevant political parties are the Capitalist party and the Capitalist party. Democrats and Republicans disagree on a handful of very minor issues, despite all the media trumpeting about one being "left" and one being "right." The Democrats will still pass legislation that favours big businesses, just a different group of businesses. No president since the 1950s has served an entire term without engaging America in some foreign conflict. The use of signals intelligence operations to spy on foreign businesses and pass along their trade secrets to US businesses has occurred during both the Clinton and Bush administrations, and during both Democrat and Republican control of Congress.
If America wanted serious change, change that was not just superficial, then one of the third party candidates would have one.
At the very least, it is a good thing that the neoconservative movement appears to have weakened a bit in this election. Do not confuse neoconservative and Republican -- while most neocons are Republicans, most Republicans are not neoconservative and many Republicans found the neoconservatives to be embarrassing.
Palm trees and 8
Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's going to take a lot of hard work to undo the backward progress and bad decisions that the Bush gov't lied and cheated the American people into. But it's a serious job for grown-ups who are not afraid let reason and long-term strategy prevail, instead of fighting fire with fire 'til the house is burnt down. Luckily, there will soon be a responsible adult in the White House.
Oh, I can't help quoting you because everything that you said rings true
No, however you would have had to put up with a lot of the status quo since even the most honest of Republicans would find it difficult to remove the most corrupt or incompetant entrenched in various nooks and crannies. The same could apply if there had been a corrupt Democrat administration but it would take a few years with nobody really watching before that could happen while some of the current crooks have should have rap sheets dating back to Nixon's administration.
One thing I've noticed from being in a place that had a far more corrupt government is that the replacements make an effort to try to be squeaky clean even if is against their nature. Also the Republicans now have a chance to purge criminal elements which they would not have if they had won, so I think it's better for them and the USA than if they had won. The bizzare shift to Monarchy within the Republican party and the rest of the odd neocon agenda has hopefully been laid to rest with this election if it wasn't already.
Come meet the new boss, same as the old boss... I'd prefer neither party have clear control of the legislative branch, then they would have to work together and couldn't push their own agenda through. Neither side has the right or total answer to any problem.
"Physics is to math what sex is to masturbation." - Richard Feynman
Here's one to add to your count. My biggest fear (even as a right-leaning centrist) is that some redneck is going to assassinate Obama. While I'd personally rather see Biden in office the ramifications of our first black President being assassinated would rip this country to shreds. I love my redneck neighbors, but I pray that they all have enough sense to wait 4 years and vote the idiot out.
I think the thank god was in reference to the no recount. I could be wrong, but that is what my 'Thank God' reaction was aimed at.
"Little is much when little you need."
Absolutely. Let's give the guy some room to see what a Democratic president with Democratic congress can do for four years.
There's always the '12 elections. If things are still bad then, the Republicans will have a (relatively) easy time.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Funny, I was watching the same speech, and I thought he went out of his way to stress that this goes beyond the campaign. I guess I'm just retarded.
Regarding his concrete plans, he's a *politician*. None of the candidates have provided much in the way of concrete plans, much to my frustration. There is no doubt that Obama can fail to live up expectations -- hell, I don't see how he *can* -- but that goes for any new president, and America wouldn't have a separate presidential election if it was all about the issues as opposed to the person.
This will certainly be interesting.
Not trolling, but obviously attempting to perpetuate the stereotype of freedom-minded people as "immature" and "adolescent". Says more about you than it does the libertarian.
Go slouch towards Gommorah somewhere else. Just because you think you are right doesn't mean other people are not. I mean, jeez, it's going to take 20 years to clean up after W before anyone could even talk about really changing society in any meaningful way.
Calling Obama a socialist after 8 years of Bush growing the government, giving titanic bailout packages to Wall Street, keeping companies alive on corporate welfare, propping up economic figures by ignoring the excesses of an industry, giving companies incentives to send jobs overseas, fighting wars that benefit no one, and all the other garbage that has been kicked up since 2000 is plain nuts. We are emerging from a form of socialism directed solely at the top 1% of Americans and it is time to move on.
M
Well, there was no chance of that either way. We did, however, elect a bad president... but we were going to do that no matter what.
Obama, contrary to popular belief, is yet another power-hungry, self-serving politician. He proved this to anyone who pays attention when he cast his vote for telecom immunity (in other words: you can break the law, as long as the president says it's OK to do so). With a loose regard for the law like he showed he has, I do not look forward to seeing what new abuses of presidential power this man will perpetrate.
It's funny, though... Obama is quite possibly the biggest con man I've ever seen. I have great admiration for his skills at deceiving people, even as I'm disgusted with my fellow countrymen for being taken in by a swindler so easily. Truly an exemplary politician, even if he is a bad statesman.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
Newsflash: Obama voted for all of that in the Senate.
Honestly I could care less what whether our next president is white or black. I tend to be more concerned with things that will actually effect the future of myself and the country. What does concern me is people voting for a president based on the color of his skin. They have word for that, it's called racism.
Typical neoconservative.
In case you haven't noticed, the fruits were already redistributed, from our wallets to a vault owned by some millionaire-turned-billionaire.
People like you always try to act like democrats want to take what you've earned and give it to poor people.
You're wrong and you probably will never realize it. They want to take from the obscenely rich and give it to poor people.
It's pretty fair to say that there's nothing a man can do, who earns a few million dollars a year, to justify that as his fair share. What can a man do to rightfully earn that much over a man who works harder and longer that earns peanuts? Let's not discuss education or intelligence. They don't matter here. I want to know how you, who probably doesn't even make $100k a year can stick up for people who have systematically pillaged both the American Treasury and picked the pockets of Americans for over a generation.
They're using their grammar skills there.
McCain isn't the antichrist. Not by a long shot. And I said this as an Obama supporter. He's served this country (more honorably than many senators) for a long time.
When will you get it into your head that your your political opponent isn't automatically evil incarnate? That may work for vi-vs-emacs and Apple-vs-MS wars on /., but it's just juvenile in the real world.
Go somewhere random
Where have you been the past 8 years?
You think things were bad under Bush?
You ain't seen nothing yet.
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I voted for Barr - even though I was rooting for Obama.
Why didn't I vote for Obama? Because I'm so disgusted with BOTH the Democratic and Republican parties that I,at least, wanted to send a message that, regardless of their candidate, I do not approve of their policies and direction.
As far as I'm concerned, the Bill of Rights, all of them, are cast in stone. We can't pick and choose which ones to keep.
Every square millimeter of the US is a Free Speech Zone.
We have the right to bare arms. PERIOD. That means if I want a magazine that holds 50+ rounds, I can have it. If I want a machine gun, so be it. Handgun -you bet - and NO license if I want to carry.
There is a separation between church and state. Religion has no business in government.
Ok...he won.
Now...honestly, what do you think is really going to change?
Do you think he'll get the Dems to undo the Patriot Act?
Do you think he'll get to the bottom of and stop the Wiretaps on US Citizens?
Do you think he'll have us 100% out of Iraq in the next week? Month? Year? Decade?
Will he magically fix the economy? If so, how long? What exactly is he going to do?
Will he walk on water?
Ok...the last one was a joke, but, seriously, everyone that seems to be treating his election as the 'second coming', what exactly do you think has changed, or what to you see as the time table to be looking for all this "change"?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
McCain would tax the Poor?? really? If you really believe that then McCain's campaign has failed even worse than I'd imagined. Not once has he said he'd raise taxes on the Poor. Good Grief!
As a male white Italian with no involvement into USA elections, I have to admit that this morning I cried and laughed hearing what just happened in a big nation far far away. This changes everything. The politics of fear will end. Black people won't be seen "out of place" in any place from now on. Things won't go worse all the time, like last years made us think! A big thank you to the US people. This affects us all.
Nuffsaid
________
Don't know about his cat, but Schroedinger is definitely dead.
Karma preserve man!
Right. It is called an election; that is the definition.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
More importantly, a vote for McCain was a vote for Rove and friends. Rewarding them with another four years would have been interesting in a Chinese curse kind of way.
I'm not American and couldn't vote but I've spent all my adult life here and the last eight years have affected my life in much the same ways it affected yours. I'm very glad there were record turnouts, whoever you voted for.
I think its good to recognize this as a historic and important moment. I stayed up all night working and listening to the coverage. It is a night I'll remember and I'm admittedly quite happy. Certainly, there is hope, a word I haven't heard much off since 2001. I'm very glad that he acknowledged that the real work lies ahead and that it will take a spirit of service and sacrifice and both of them talked about coming together and bridging the gaps that have cut this nation.
Bridging gaps is a hugely critical message today. There is an interesting discordant note between all the commentators speaking about how this marks the end of slavery and the fruition of the civil rights movement and the change of a generation, and what looks like a yes vote on Proposition 8 in California. When the dust has settled, there is going to be much talk about the way different demographics voted and the gaps that represents. I hope it will not take 40 years for all of us to recognize that in the end, beyond nationality, skin colour, sexual orientation, religious beliefs or background, we are all just human beings.
Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
I think most "Rednecks" are a lot smarter and better tempered than you give them credit for. Unfortunately, it only takes one loony to commit such an act, but then we shouldn't call him a Redneck. We would call him a "loony," "criminal," or "murderer."
And if people were truely sick of being treated like shit, there would be 3rd party candidates in the house and senate, enough of them were up for election!
There won't be any third parties in the US until they start having proportional elections.
According to the latest numbers, Obama got 68% of the electors, but only 52% of the votes. That's a good marker of the error in the current Plurality voting system.
It's in the House of Representatives we might see the first real change, if third parties gain enough votes to control the balance of power.
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Sounds like you've been watching Fox "News". Shortly after Obama made his speech last night, I tuned in to see what they were saying, and pretty much heard *exactly* what you just typed.
No, he's not going to do any of those things in the first week, month, or most likely even first year he's in office. The shit Bush & Co. has done will take far longer to unravel, but he can start the process.
Quit being so damned bitter and actually start helping your fellow countrymen instead of being an asshole because your guy didn't win.
bork bork bork!
As far as a good part of the rest of the world...we don't think you elected a messiah. We're just glad you didn't elect the 3rd incarnation of the fucking antichrist.
Dumbest thing I've read today and that applies double for whoever modded that informative/insightful. I didn't vote for McCain. I don't think he'd make as good an executive as he does a Senator, and if I'm being honest, I don't think he's as sharp mentally as he used to be.
But his record is really that of a centrist, who works with people across party lines. He's done a lot to reform campaign finance (which ironically didn't help him, since his opponent decided rules are for other people). Relating McCain to the "antichrist" somehow is representative of the blind, untargeted ultra-liberal rage that seems to have consumed quite a few people these days. Yes, Bush is a terrible president. But to assume that he and McCain are the same man, let alone to come to the conclusion that he's representative of Satan himself, requires one to be drinking directly from the Obama campaign Kool-Aid tap.
In other words, stop letting other people write your cue cards for you, think for yourself.
"We're just glad you didn't elect the 3rd incarnation of the fucking antichrist."
Even though I voted Obama and am VERY glad he won, I think that's overly harsh on McCain. Every impression I got was that he was more intelligent and sane than the Texas Village Idiot.
The problem is that McCain and Palin ran on a platform that catered to the same uneducated religious nutjobs that Bush appealed to. That platform backfired on them, when their "This is Real America" small-town speeches pissed off the (according to them) educated "Fake Americans" living in suburbs and cities. I may live in a small town now, but I grew up in the suburbs and many of their speeches implied that I was not a "Real American", which I found quite insulting.
Signed,
"Fake American" (aka educated ex-suburban-resident)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
At least the Captain who kept steering us into icebergs will be replaced soon, though possibly not soon enough.
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
just because you heard it on fox news doesn't mean it's incorrect. the gp is entirely correct. i don't think anything will change in washington. that said, i hope i'm wrong.
I have never seen such hysteria for a candidate in my life. With the type of overwrought messianic expectations that he faces, there is no way to go for Obama but down.
I take it you were born after the 1984 Reagan-Mondale election.
Based on the "hopes" of a lot of people, the poor guy is going to disappoint a lot of people.
His supporters who think he'll change everything.
His detractors who think he'll change everything.
Take a look at a list of presidents for the past 40 years and you'll see no one president fundamentally changes everything. Can't be done. A president doesn't have that sort of power.
As I tell everyone, whoever gets elected you hope he/she does well for our country, because then everyone wins.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
*cough* Kennedy (Vietnam) *cough* Johnson (Vietnam) *cough* Clinton (pissed off al-queda by declaring war) *cough*
Get real BOTH 'sides' had a large helping hand in that. To say 'only the republicans did this' ignores history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_history_events
We shall see if they are the party of 'change' they OWNED the congress for the past ~2 years and did nothing but follow party line. Some change. They have shown themselves to be the other big government group. For example the DMCA (a subject near and dear to Slashdot crowd) you can thank the democratic party for that.
I say it here right now in 4 years we will be discussing the same things.
The ONLY way he can change the system is to make it even worse than it was. You know more laws to enforce his way of thinking...
So you honestly believe that the only reason so many people voted fro him was race? How sad.
It may also surprise you that, in retrospect, experience is not correlated to being a good president, and in fact some of the the most inexperienced presidents have been some of the most successful.
Compare it to the alternative McCain, who's political convictions apparently run so shallow that nearly all of them did a complete 180 in the four years since his last attempt at the oval office. His campaign was run by anyone but him and the choosing of Palin should shake even the most stalwart GOP supporter's confidence in that man's executive capabilities.
I'll take "confident and inspirational" over "schizophrenic and incompetent" any day, even if "experience" is lacking.
=Smidge=
With the world in financial crisis, two wars, and our civil liberties gone down the tubes, isn't it time for a charismatic leader with dreams rather than Joe from accounting?
When did we become so cynical that we believed nothing would change? I suppose there were people said the same thing when FDR was elected.
When did we become a nation of "that's too hard" instead of "yes we can"?
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
Blaming Bush will only work for so long. If Voters took account of who was responsible for problems they would of tossed out Dems and Republicans in congress since the Democratic congress does hold some responsibility for their actions over the last two years, but the fact of the matter is that whomever is in the White house defines which party is responsible regardless of who is REALLY responsible.
Complaining about trains not running on time and management is FAR different than making the trains run on time and BEING management.
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I would have hoped that the American people would be smart enough to know that the crisis was a bi-partisan failure. From Credit Default Swaps passing the Senate as a rider 98-0, to the Bush Administration sounding the alarm in 2003 but being ignored, to Barney Frank famously telling the House Republicans that there is nothing wrong with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (and getting the backing of House Democrats), to the Republicans blocking the Fannie/Freddie bill once it reached the Senate, there is plenty of blame to spread around.
The truth is that the economic crisis happened because the financial markets found new ways to be greedy that no one understood. When the powers that be looked at the balance sheets, they'd see these odd financial instruments and mortgage-backed securities and just shrug and say, "We trust that you guys are educated and know what you're doing. Besides, it seems to be working." Only now that they're falling apart is it clear to everyone how underhanded and vile these various financial instruments were. It's all crystal clear in 20/20 hindsight.
That being said, McCain didn't help himself any by appointing Grahm and Fiorna as his advisors. Having the guy responsible for CDSes and the most hated CEO in history (at least, that hasn't been prosecuted) didn't exactly endear him to the American public.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
You're all nuts - America has just been given away!
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:
A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.ÃFrom that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.
The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence.
From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage;ÃFrom courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance;ÃFrom abundance to complacency; From complacency to apathy;ÃFrom apathy to dependence;ÃFrom dependence back into bondage.Ã
Seems we are now entering the "Dependence" Phase!
> It is juvenile to think someone is evil because they use a
> different text editor.
Most folk on /. know it's juvenile. Those who accuse their political opponents of being evil usually don't. Hint: if your political opponent was truly evil, you probably wouldn't be around. Just ask some Zimbabweans who dared oppose Mugabe and were found in a ditch with their limbs torn off.
> It is just clarity to see evil in someone who will bring
> suffering to millions of people.
By that measure FDR would qualify as "evil" - his policies (including the US' insistence on the gold standard long after other nations abandoned it) extended the Depression for the US for at least 6 years and caused suffering to millions of people.
"Evil" is a loaded word. Sending people to Siberia to starve and die is evil. Sending jews and gays to bake in Polish camp ovens is evil.
If you think McCain is evil, you're deluded _and_ are cheapening the meaning of the word.
Go somewhere random
A coworker of mine described his vote very simply: "My fear with McCain is that he will do as he says. My fear with Obama is that he won't."
My response to those concerns is very simple: if he does half of what he says he'll do, that's still a big win.
I am officially gone from
What's so bad about socialism?
Do you honestly think that voting in Obama is going to turn the states into some sort of Soviet Russia just because SOME of his plans are similar to those in Western Europe?
Wake up and realise that it doesn't matter what the idealogical principle is. All that matters is that you do the correct action for the situation. Sometimes that action is one that reflects libertarianism, sometimes conservatism, sometimes socialism, sometimes environmentalism, sometimes etc.
Your healthcare system NEEDS drastic change, perhaps socialism. No one is suggesting a British style NHS (certainly not the British). But quite simply, whether you are proud of you country or not (and when did that matter to anything) you should be ashamed of your healthcare system.
Regards
Person-bored-with-meaningless-election-fearmongering-but-honestly-impressed-with-the-US-people.
If this were really happening, what would you think?
> Is Obama perfect? No, he's human like the rest of us, but
> we're *FAR* better off with him than freakin' McCain/Palin...
Oh yeah. I totally agree. But what gets me is this urge -- on both sides -- to call the other guy names: 'evil' or 'traitor' or 'communist' or 'socialist' or whatever. That really, really pisses me off.
I don't know about you, but I like some civility in my politics. Maybe I'm being naive, but then I voted for a guy who sort of shares my beliefs, and gave a classy shout-out to his losing opponent (and the Republican party, incidentally, by reminding them of what they once stood for) today.
Now if only more of his fans on Slashdot show the same civility ...
Go somewhere random
>Quit being so damned bitter and actually start helping your fellow countrymen instead of being an asshole because your guy didn't win
You mean like the Democrats did in 2000 and 2004?
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
just because you heard it on fox news doesn't mean it's incorrect.
I just want to say again, Yes it does!
"Fox News" is not news. It is a commentator show. It is hard to even find a "news" show any longer. Everyone has to inject their opinions and interpretations of the carefully selected facts presented. That's commentating and editorializing -- not reporting and not news.
We need truth in labelling in everything, it seems, and not just on foods and drugs.
I just hope that when he doesn't solve the economic crisis and "all of the worlds problems" that they don't blame him,
Obama has the good fortune that the crash didn't happen on his watch, so whatever he does to worsen the depression will be blamed on Bush by most people. They'll gloss over the fact that Obama voted in favor of Bush and Paulson's $850B robbery.
Hell, even today, most people think FDR ended the first great depression.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I am sure people will point out that McCain!= Bush, and I will admit that McCain himself seems to be a man of integrity. However, much of the republican leadership is not. Palin serves as a perfect example.
As a European who has paid an interested attention to this election, it seems to me that the McCain who gave the concession speech and sat 'debating' next to John Stewart (essentially the enemy) was a man of integrity and I was impressed that he was willing to give his views to an audience that disagreed. Unfortunately the McCain on the campaign trail, the stupid negative namecalling (when Obama wasn't there), putting a 'below-Bush-intellect' Palin on the ticket, the whole 'small-towns' thing was not a man of integrity, it was a man who let too many Bush advisors on his team.
A shame because he would have had better chance without them.
If this were really happening, what would you think?
A sadly unusual point of view. The president might be whom folks think of when presented with the term "US government" but he is not the US government. I know locally at least, almost all the incumbent members of congress went back for another term. Why is this, when approval ratings are so low?
Yeah, the "Bush is not my president" and "Somewhere in Texas a village lost its idiot" T-shirts and all of the /. posts about "KKKarl Rove stole the election" and "the chimp" things the Democrats did after 2000 and 2004 absolutely helped their fellow countrymen and weren't asshole things to do.
Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
Actually these things can take a long time to happen. The best analysis of this crisis that I've seen so far made the case that the cause was de-regulation of banking under Reagan. It took a few years for the banks to start taking risks, it took a few more years for mass uptake of the products, etc, etc and finally 20-odd years later, we have the sub-prime crisis.
Why doesn't Slashdot ever get slashdotted?
Dude...
- Everyone receives government handouts from oil revenues
- Alcoholism is rampant
- Rape is one of the highest rates in the U.S.
- Palin is the Governor
WTF did you expect?
You guys are missing one of the biggest things this election means. He may not be able to fix the economy, the war, the erosion of our rights, but it is a great first step to fixing something that has plagued our country since its inception. Him being elected will not fix racism but it is a big step in the right direction. I just hope it continues and we as Americans can come together and be just that. Americans, and not white or black America. If we can solve that large issue and move forward, then I believe all the other problems can be fixed in time as well.
As opposed to the other completely neutral news organizations..right.
Also, :
- They were there for less than two years
- They are not in charge of the executive; by definition the legislative's impact is less imediate than the executive's
- Repugs fillibustered (or threatened to) almost everything the democrats tried to pass in the Senate
- Bush vetoed almost anything the democrats passed
Level Headed,
Does every wrong need to be met with another wrong?
Or can we draw a line, and say "enough - time to fix the problems and reclaim the American Dream for our children and ourselves"?
"For every right, an equal responsibility..."
Honest question: Why is that so bad? I've heard people go on and on ad nauseam about how she's supposedly some horrible right-wing nutjob, but what exactly makes her so terrible or rather, what makes her worse that the others?
Even putting aside the religious fundamentalism, she is very similar to Bush in that she seems to believe one doesn't have to think about issues, but rather can just make gut decisions and govern from some sort of pseudofolksy wisdom. Bush thought, and still thinks, he's a natural leader who always makes the right decisions just because it's in his nature. I got that feeling from Palin's actions as well. I mean, at the beginning of the campaign she stated that she had never really thought about the Iraq war enough to come up with a viewpoint on it. That's frightening behavior from an adult American, let alone a candidate for a major office.
How about the collective interests of the entire world, not just the interests of any one single country?
Why doesn't Slashdot ever get slashdotted?
And regardless of their intent, over 106,000 Alaskans still put down a vote for a convicted criminal. The extreme partisanship required to do that is beyond comprehension.
His wasn't just convicted of any old crime, either. It's a corruption conviction relating to his service in the position he was re-elected to.
Electing someone convicted of a crime unrelated to their office is one thing, but electing someone convicted of corruption in that office is an entirely different beast.
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
I know locally at least, almost all the incumbent members of congress went back for another term. Why is this, when approval ratings are so low?
Well, in the case of my district, the incumbent just got elected President ;-)
Actually what alienated him from the american public was choosing an undeducated-appearing woman with no experience for a vice president. You have no idea how many times I heard "I'd vote for McCain, but he might die, and I do NOT want Palin as president."
If we don't care who runs other countries, then why do we keep invading them?
It seems even the internationalist, socially leftist Obama supporters hold close to their hearts the proud American tradition of fuck all y'all. (Yeah, yeah, -1 Troll)
Not directly, no, but cutting taxes for the rich and running an even bigger deficit means that at some point you'll have to cut social programs to pay for it. That's the part where the poor pay for it.
Wow. Way to get the ball rolling. I'm sure your comment assuages all kinds of stereotypes about American arrogance.
She kept pushing vicious attacks against Obama based on loose associations with people of questionable or even despicable past (pasts which Obama also disapproved of). She stated that these casual or business associations made them Chummy.
She kept trying to put a wedge between the "intellectual crowd" and "normal people", never mind that the two groups have surprisingly little difference.
She was complaining about socialism, and 'spreading the wealth', in her state where they tax oil companies who drill there, and cut a check to all the citizens with that money.
She overall seemed way to hateful and spiteful. More so than any other candidate that I've seen. McCain made some of the most human and respectful gestures in the campaign, and Obama wasn't a slouch in the respect either. Biden seemed like a virtual non-entity, but Palin... seemed to have no sense to 'be nice' occasionally.
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
And it should put a stop to all those people who insist they can't succeed just because they're black, too. :)
As an internationalist, socially leftist Obama supporter who believes it is vital to repair our reputation overseas,and is beyond thrilled that Obama won, let me just say: Back off. We are still the most powerful country in the world, and we chose Obama because he was the best choice for us, not for you. We are not coming to you hat in hand asking for your forgiveness, and you have no ability to put us on "notice."
As someone from the rest of the world who has seen the consequences of you bunch electing a bad president. Yeah, you elected Obama for you. However think about someone else for a change.
Not all conservatives are stupid,
but it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
- Hume
That argument doesn't work anymore. Just because Fox News is a right wing tabloid doesn't mean they all have a bias. If the truth doesn't support your reality and the other news organizations won't bend their coverage to support your viewpoint, that doesn't make them biased.
The Fox News view of the world got crushed last night. It's an old, angry, failed philosophy and good riddance.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
It's not the same, but it shows that Obama doesn't respect the rule of law we hold dear. After 8 years of a president with similar views on the law, this should set off huge fucking warning bells in everyone's head.
Instead, people got so caught up in the rhetoric that they refuse to examine the man objectively, and apologize for, and try to rationalize, everything he does. He doesn't even need PR staff!
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
Yeah, but remember that for a while, Canadian Tire money was worth more than the US dollar.
At least when shopping at Canadian Tire, eh?
Debate - open, honest, frank and passionate, is definitely something this nation was founded on.
I agree with you - there is absolutely nothing wrong with being partisan, and the tension between the two major parties is what produces progress for the country as a whole.
But mudslinging, blind partisanship and unfounded accusation are the wrongs I'm referring to. We can do better than that.
"For every right, an equal responsibility..."
Exactly. Obama and McCain, we *know* will keep taking us down our current path. They have both shown this by their actions in the past. Our only hope in this election was to elect someone who wasn't one of those two, but due to the stupidity of the American people with respect to third parties, it was never going to happen. We had a shot that someone good would make it through the primaries, and our shot failed. Ever since then, we the people were doomed.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
> almost all the incumbent members of congress went back for another term.
> Why is this, when approval ratings are so low?
Because of the lack of viable 3rd, 4th, 5th etc. party candidates. By viable I don't meant the candidates themselves as they have at least as much to offer as anybody else on the ballots but the representation of them. The almost complete lack of coverage of them to the point of people being surprised to see other names they never heard of on the ballots besides the two D/R candidates. This is IMHO a true shame for the nation as a whole and the media in particular. I would welcome alternative views and more than two parties of importance since I believe that the views of well over 100 million voters can not possibly be properly represented by 2 parties.
Yeah, but you are also forgetting one thing? How much HIGHER would Obama's percentages be among white voters had he not been black, or supposedly muslim? Tons of white folks voted AGAINST him for no reason but skin color or perceived religion
Furthermore, you can't necessarily say it's racism. Maybe black people just really felt that Obama identified with their needs? You can find that type of pattern in many other things. For instance, look how much higher Obama's support was in major urban/suburban areas? In Florida, he barely took the vote, but in Miami, Tampa and Orlando he dominated, . North Carolina is essentially a tie, but in Raleigh, Winston-Salem, and Charlotte he dominated. Does that mean that city folk are reverse racists against white? Or that country folk are racist against blacks?
Until Obama won the Iowa caucus, all the black people were backing Hillary Clinton anyway. They're not racists, they're just Democrats.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
You could argue that a lot of the white voters voted for McCain because he's white.
So do, please, tell me how it could possibly be worse.
Teh GAZYORZ could GET MARREED!!!
Gods, I hate too many people in this country...
Try crunching those numbers by income instead of skin color and see what comes out.
The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
...but I grew up in the suburbs and many of their speeches implied that I was not a "Real American", which I found quite insulting.)
For me, Real Americans = aztecs, siouxies, etc. I'm South American and I can say I'm an American too, or at least I should be able to.
I think this is just another type of Ad-Hominem fallacy. Americans do something -> This shouldn't be done by Americans -> They are not "real" Americans.
Any life is made up of a single moment, the moment in which a man finds out, once and for all, who he is.
Daily Show
"Common sense will be the death of us all"
LOL, you sound like yet another arrogant american to me. You want to repair America's reputation overseas and you rely on military threat as an argument? How very internationalist of you. Besides, with 2 failed wars and your supposed allies in eastern europe crushed by the Russians, who are you trying to kid? Do you honestly believe many countries are militarily afraid of the US at this point?
Here's a little hint for you, what do you think would happen to the US if the chinese flooded the market with all the US IOUs they've been stashing away? ICBMs and aircraft carriers are so 20th century. The real big red button these days is in Beijing and is labelled SELL (err... in chinese).
Having said that, i agree with you that you, as americans, elected an american president and you are justified in being offended by people in other countries not so subtly suggesting who you should vote for. I know i'd be angry if americans tried to interfere in Australian domestic politics like that.
Obama is the president elect of the United States, not the leader of the free world. America lost that title some time ago.
John McCain should have won the election.
If John McCain should have won the election, John McCain would have won the election.
My question would be, why didn't 95% of whites vote for Obama?
Anti-black racism in the white American community is ugly.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
True, but it's the people who perpetuate the problem over time that really help it happen. Those who bought into Reaganomics are the ones who kept the problem moving along. Others over time could have reversed the trend, but chose not to.
Developers: We can use your help.
Because their districts are gerrymandered such that their opponent (if they even have one) has no chance of winning.
For most districts, the real election happens in the primary.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
No it won't. Obama is technically interracial. It should quell the interracial people from insisting they can't succeed, but it will do nothing for people insisting they can't succeed because they are black. You don't give people enough credit for finding ways to pass blame to things they are not in control of.
I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
Well then for the sake of ending racism, I hope you will all join me in not giving a shit what colour he is. The rhetoric that's been spewing out of some people's mouths when they can't talk for more than a minute about his actual stated policies is really starting to get nauseating. Some people are going to get one Hell of a shock from this.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
"GET OVER IT."
And look at it this way. If you are sick of Anti-white racism in the African-American community, then I say you just won a tremendous victory!
The fact is, Obama is more or less the picture perfect image of a black man that white people don't fear. He maintains most all of his cultural identity and yet he is respectful, respectable, speaks well, is very intelligent and doesn't speak in rhymes. Obama is no dumb-ass.
And why is this a tremendous victory for you? Simple. What you likely hate the most is the rhetoric and the guilt and shame imposed on you because you were born a white male. Well guess what, now that we elected a black man for president, there is a LOT less they can say... there is a black man in the highest office. What else do they have to complain about that could be valid? When Obama fails to dish out the welfare, what are they going to say now? "Sell-out?" (maybe...)
How about the collective interests of the entire world, not just the interests of any one single country?
That's all well and good, but the job of the US president is to be the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, not the world. If you want a world president, have your country's leader propose the idea to the UN or whoever. But for now, the POTUS's primary concern should be the well being of the USA. The rest of the world is important, but not first.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
I hope things will change and that we aren't doomed to repeat history, but I'm not very optimistic about it. When the Republicans got the presidency and Congress, they ended up going against their "small government" plans and voted in a ton of special-interest appropriations. It seems unlikely that in the same situation, the "larger government" party would do anything different.
I think Obama will try to curb excesses, but I have little doubt Congress will be pushing for them. Someone needs to tell them they were elected to make the best choices for the nation, not to get the most money for their state or the best boost for their reelection hopes.
because the only oath a person takes when becoming a congressman or president is to uphold the constitution. Condemning bad things isn't in there, so he votes against it. A similar example, a vote to give an award of some sort to Rosa Parks, he voted against it, and then offered to pay for it himself. Because buying awards for nice people isn't in the constitution, and if you follow his economics, you will understand that he is opposed to spending other peoples money on things that are not explicitly stated in the constitution.
The federal budget is a fixed size, which currently has a massive deficit and a huge debt. McCain proposed funding drops of 10-20 million dollars, which is a drop in the bucket of our overall deficit. Additionally, with his comments towards Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan we can be pretty sure that we wouldn't be out of any of those expenditures any time soon, with the potential added fiscal bonus of an Iranian invasion.
Hence, when he wants to extend the temporary Bush tax cuts on the very rich, (which were initially proposed as a trickle-down stimulus package, and proved ineffective), he is effectively shifting the fixed-pie tax burden from the rich to the poor. Reducing tax rates doesn't magically reduce expenditures, it simply time-shifts the tax burden. In this case, permanently implementing Bush's tax cut for the wealthy simply ensures that they are going to shoulder less of the burden long-term, and that will fall upon the shoulders of the middle and lower classes.
So yes, beware of anyone who says they're going to lower taxes during a time of severe budget deficits, without telling you how. It's a shell game. Remember that 500 dollar "economic stimulus" check? That bill came out to more than 150 billion dollars, of which each of us will probably pay an extra 25 dollars in taxes per year *indefinitely* to pay interst on.
8 years ago, your personal share of the National Debt was 15,000 dollars. Now, it is up to 35,000 dollars. Assuming you have a wife and two kids, your family owes 140,000 dollars. Between 1,400 and 3,000 of your last year's federal taxes went JUST to servicing the debt.
Now is not the time to be pooping around with tax breaks on those who can pay in a shell game that shortchanges middle and lower classes. The fact that they didn't get us out of the 80's recession or the current one just proves again that trickle-down economics doesn't work.
The ______ Agenda
How, exactly, is Carter to blame for either of those? The gas lines were due to OPEC's manipulation of the market, and the hostages were out of his control. He sent special forces in, but they failed to accomplish their objective. Unless he was there on the ground with them, I fail to see how the blame for that can be laid on him.
He's only HALF black. He's also half WHITE. The proper term for BHO is "multiracial."
Begging for a helping hand with your financial aid. Begging for aid in your wars. Get used to it, even Bush has had to change his tune in the last year as the financial crisis hit harder then the neo-cons ever thought possible.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Now...honestly, what do you think is really going to change?
1. For the first time in 8 years, we have a president who can speak publicly. McCain would have done a fine job, too - but Barack is really a terrific speaker.
2. We've managed to go from segregation to president in about 40 years. More white people voted for Obama than Kerry. That is monumental. The best part is that since Obama is both black and white, he really can see and convey both perspectives of America. We're all going to talk about race a lot more than we used to, and that's a good thing.
3. We don't have to hear nonsense about the government banning stem cell research, blatantly muzzling dissenting scientists, and other such shenanigans that should have any self-respecting geek up in arms.
4. We'll gain some respect back from our allies. This is more than just a point of pride... we're going to need their help. Our army is exhausted and we all need to work together on the financial situation.
5. While I think all of the "Yes, we can," stuff is corny as hell, he does seem to be a pretty good leader. And a leader is what people are looking for right now. People were willing to put up with partisan hacks and leave Washington to fester when times were good, but now people want Washington to be a help and not a hindrance. The first step is to get them to stop acting like spoiled 2-year-olds. Barack is one of those politicians that does not sound like a spoiled 2-year-old.
Personally, I think John McCain could have done a pretty good job on that list as well, but the way his campaign was run in the last 2 or 3 months worried me greatly.
It didn't really hit me that things had changed until I saw the first family up there after the victory speech, and damn if it wasn't a black family. Cue "white house" jokes. :)
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Not voting Obama does not necessarily indicate racism. Where I work, I could have told you at least 5 of my coworkers were going to vote Republican before the primaries started, regardless if "the black guy", "the white guy", or "the manly chick" had won the Democrats primary.
I *did* however vote Obama (but my views are a lot more left-leaning than about half the people I wokr with [the Democratic party's tendency to push gun control makes them not well received by this group]).
Do you consider any black person who didn't vote for McCain to be racist, or any man that didn't vote for McCain to be sexist (due to Palin)?
But you are on notice. You may be the most powerful *single* country in the world (and I think China might have something to say about that), but the aggregate of the countries that are watching you is much, much larger and has much more to lose. No president would ever invite conflict on American soil, but they have consistently had no problem doing it in other countries. Obama's presidency will either be a turning point or an epic fail. However, I think he has two things going for him that a president absolutely needs: the ability to inspire and get people to push together, and the ability to pick talented people to get the jobs done.
You're missing two points:
If you mod me Overrated, you are admitting that you have no penis.
As an outside observer, I've believed from the beginning that simply having Barack Obama in the presidency would be good for America.
The problems with the markets right now stem in part from a lack of confidence in the US internationally.
Frankly, we think you're a bunch of ignorant, violent dicks who managed to actually try to argue that torture is a good thing.
By having someone who isn't saying these things as the ignorant violent dicks in power, I could see international investments slowly building back up, resulting in a more prosperous planet as a whole.
(Seriously. Did you guys really think that arguing about whether torture was really bad would end up well for you?)
It's been a long time.
I've always looked towards the US as Canada's big brother -- the glamorous one that's great at sports, has a better salary, but a bit arrogant too. However, over the last eight years, it's like finding out your older brother has a gambling problem, cheats on his girlfriend, and bullies kids around at school.
Now I know things aren't going to change overnight, but you've made a huge step in the right direction, America, and it's good to see you come around.
body massage!
To most black folks, he's black. His daddy was black. His wife is black. His kids are black. He's a Democrat. He attends a black church.
You are right that there is a big difference between being black or white and being mixed-race. A mixed-race guy like Obama truly understands the perspective of a black person and of a white person. He's heard it all from both sides and has had his whole life to think about these things. This is why he can talk to white people and address their concerns and also talk to black people and address their concerns.
A typical black person (or white person) will most likely not have this insight, and I hope that blacks don't get too attached to hopes that Obama will act strictly as a black advocate. This will lead to profound disappointment.
While he is the first black president, he's also the 44th white president.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
And by the same token, don't the rich people make their wealth based on the infrastructure of our country? Don't they need the roads, rails, or airlines to transport their good that they sell to make themselves rich? Don't they use our communications infrastructure to make their business deals? Don't they use our patent system to file their patents, and then our court systems when their competitors violate said patents? Don't they use our law enforcement and military to ensure the security of their possessions from people (both domestic and international) who would be more than happy to take it (or destory it) if it were unprotected?
I can't speak for Germany, but I believe they're similar to the system we have here in Canada. We don't have a Presidential ("Prime-ministerial"?) election either, but the results are the same. We're well aware of who the leader of the country will be when we vote, and the PM simply doesn't change between elections barring extraordinary circumstances.
Theoretically, the party could switch leaders immediately after the election, but it simply doesn't happen - any more than US state electors cast their presidential vote against the will of their own state.
Assuming this is in any way similar to Germany, I think it's disingenuous to claim that "they don't elect their president" based on the fact that their underlying mechanisms are a bit different from yours.
Last post!
You essentially had the choice (in my eyes) between: "Someone who says he'll do bad things, and might", and "Someone who says he'll do good things, but might not". Not the best of choices, but it's clear which one is the better of the two. I'm glad the right choice was made for once.
My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
He or she is saying that people who don't succeed will find any loophole that enables them to blame their inability to succeed on others. He or she is absolutely correct.
...yes, it was all of that lending to "the wrong people".
It had nothing to do with the fact that these days banks
don't care about "bad loans" because they've gotten into
the habit of reselling them and quickly become "someone
else's problem".
It had nothing to do with predatory ARMs that anyone with
a solid grounding in match could see were a ticking timebomb.
It had nothing to do with making loans to people without
verifying any means to pay.
It had nothing to do with ignoring people's debt to income ratio.
It had nothing to do with allowing people to get a mortgage
without any sort of down payment and having "no skin in the game".
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
"Sacrifice". Obama said it in his victory speech, and I believe McCain also said it in his concession speech. The problems of this country are so massive they can't be solved without each of us giving something to the cause. I'm not talking taxes, although I'm sure that will figure into it. If Obama is going to be successful--and by extension, make the country successful--we're all going to have to embrace the notion of personal sacrifice and service to the country. Think about that before you reflexively complain about what's bound to be unpleasant for many of us. In the words of John McCain: "It's time to put the country first."
Prepare yourselves for four years of austerity. We can't continue as a country where the only people who actively sacrifice for it are the members of the military and their families.
(Seriously, did you really think most of us actually bought that shit?)
The guy never had better than a 50-50 approval rating and by the time the the torture stuff really hit the fan it was a lot lower. Had the 2004 election happened in 2006 Kerry would have won in a landslide, but sadly in 2004 W. still had enough people fooled to squeak by. Seriously, Americans are not a monolithic group think over here. We have different opinions on all kind of issues. I would think, given your 6 digit UID, that you've been reading /. long enough to get an idea for how "Americans" are no more in agreement on any one issue than any other large group on the face of the Earth.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
They started talking since the Irish economy took off and the IRA figured they could make more money through real-estate by paying off councilors than through running arms and drugs. It wasn't through some hippy breakthrough with government and terrorists smoking a joint together and proclaiming world peace. At the end of the day money talks. As it did with the US economy providing a radical shift towards Obama, as it did with prudish America not caring about Clinton's indiscretions as long as he kept improving the economy and increasing people's paychecks.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
Here's the thing, and I'm sure others have said it:
He won as a beacon of hope. He's not going to take the world on his shoulder Atlas style, give it a good shaking and make all of us rich, healthy and happy. We have to do that for ourselves, with his help. His approval rating will hopefully follow the average of individual self-approval ratings across the globe. And that's the very Best thing we can hope for in a politician.
Here's to a renewed effort!
I think that is wrong. They fear failure... which doesn't make "them" any different from "us."
Being afraid of failure is the number one thing preventing success for most people of all divisions and classifications.
in re: 1., yes you can: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test#Biogeographical_ancestry. Of course, whether race means something apart from where you or your ancestors happened to come from, that is still open (*). But make no mistake, there absolutely is a technical concept of "biogeographical ancestry" which is very analogous to what is called race, and incorporating it into a model can increase the power and accuracy of clinical trials and disease screens. I would call this scientific.
*: Of course, to see as much between-group genetic variation as there is, and straight-facedly claim a priori that race has no statistical effect on anything, is just a bit silly. It's just one of those things you have to entertain for society's benefit.
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
Entire racial groups have a perspective now? When I lived in the USA, I met a Morrocan student who told me the most annoying thing in the USA were all the people who told him that they were "African." They all had more in common with their white countrymen than they did with him. There's no supportable reason a black person can't see things from a white person's perspective and vice versa. But the black person can't see things from white people's perspective and a white person can't see things from black people's perspective, because there is no such united view. There isn't even enough cultural unity to talk in generalities. If you were white, would it make sense for someone to ask you what white people thought of a particular topic. Outside of the most contrived examples, it would not.
What we should be discussing here is Obama's policies and intentions. Not pages and pages of discussion about his ethnicity. The fact that we are not is the clearest sign of a problem to me, although I think it is one that is being worked out.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
Let's give the guy some room to see what a Democratic president with Democratic congress can do for four years.
I can think of very few things that frighten me more.
You mean like a GOP stranglehold on the entire federal government for four years? We had that from 2002-2006 and look what happened. The GOP owned the House, Senate, Executive, and the SCOTUS during that time. What did they do with it? They took unprecedented steps to marginalize the opposition and completely mismanaged the country to the point that for two straight elections the electorate has roundly turned them out on their asses.
I seriously doubt the Democrats will immediately forget what happens to a party that thinks it has just attained "permanent majority" and runs roughshod over the country.
At least, I hope so.
The fact that you even had that conversation is insane. The fact that until now, the majority of the electorate was on the side of those people is even more insane.
It's been a long time.
I don't believe Obama will fix anything "magically", because I don't believe in magic. However, there is reason for everybody here to hope, even Republicans.
Democracy does not consistently select good leaders. No system can do that, which is why democracy is important: democracy works by making throwing out bad leaders easier. You don't have to take to the streets with Molotov cocktails or worry about your relatives disappearing into some secret police dungeon to get regime change.
Competition improves the breed, and so a spot of extinction pressure is a hopeful thing. It means the system is still working on some level.
It's just like the free market. The market doesn't mean you are consistently satisfied with your purchases. No economic system could do that. It means that it is easy to switch vendors, which keeps the vendors working hard to satisfy you and redress your grievances.
Our system is designed to prevent overnight changes. 2008 is the continuation of a process that started in 2006, of throwing out the Republican party. Republicans should be glad in the long term of this, just as Democrats should be glad that they can lose most of their gains in the next election. Just as competition improves the breed, complacency ruins it. The Democrats, for now, are aware the country has just thrown out the old regime, and that come January there will be no more excuses. As long as they are mindful of this, they will at least try to do better.
Republicans will of course be looking at the mistakes that the Democrats will make. If they're smart, they'll look at the mistakes they themselves made. There are those in the party who say the answer is to become more like the party that got thrown out in 2006. I think the Republicans have a good shot of convincing the American people the Democrats have overreached if they deemphasize the ultra socially conservative southern wing and turn to the fiscally conservative, socially moderate and libertarian leaning Republicans of the West and Northeast.
I hope they do, I hope they put together and honest, credible attack on the Democrats by 2012. And I'm a Democrat. No party that thinks itself unassailable, as the Republicans did in 2005, can be trusted.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
No thanks. I'll give a shit what color he is mainly because it's a pretty damn good gauge of how far America has come along in terms of overcoming some nasty racism. That doesn't mean I will use the color of his skin to judge his abilities as his president, human being, etc. You act like the rhetoric spewing is coming from one side. I bet you I can find the same amount of people who can't really get past the words "socialist" and "Muslim" when talking about Obama's policies.
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game
The victim mentality has been promulgated too long and
is too deeply ingrained in some people's minds of all
colors in this country.
We have had black senators, black generals, black CEOs,
and 4 black governors.
Most of the big money sports stars are minorities now as well.
Minorities have a more difficult time of getting success
in these endeavors, but it is doable.
Keep in mind, I am American Indian.
A black president will not cure the victim crutch ppl of their
self debilitation it will have to be by their own determination.
Keep in mind the dispute over abortion comes down to whether unborn children are considered humans with civil rights. A libertarian opposed to abortion isn't really any more inconsistent than a libertarian opposed to lynchings. Libertarians aren't anarchists - they do believe that it is the proper purpose of government to establish and enforce criminal law. Murder clearly ought to be illegal, so the question becomes whether stuff like abortion, euthenasia, assisted-suicide, etc is murder.
Funny, I thought we were ALL gods Children.....:D
Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
To paraphrase obama: Yes, you can. The different skin-colors stem from genetic differences and those can be detected. I'm not saying that distinguishing between skin-colors or "races" makes any sense - but technically it's possible to determine someone's skin-color from a DNA-sample, with increasing accuracy.
Most of what SNL did was just quote her straight-up, which is the truly scary part: SNL didn't even need to write most of its own jokes. Palin is just that much of a twit, and the worst part is that she knew just enough to twist this to her advantage in the debates. Someone capable of this is not someone who belongs within 5000 miles of the most powerful office in the US (and, arguably, the world).
Palin is not the first person whose greatest attack ads were simply her own words played back at her. Sadly, she will probably not be the last either. But when they do spring up, there is good reason to fear them.
It's a shame about McCain. It really is. He's a strong statesman, a good politician, and he probably would have been at least as good for the country (if in different ways) than Obama. But Palin had to be stopped, and fortunately, she was. You might even say that she won the election; she just won it for the opposing side.
Over 4,000 American soldiers have died, and that death tally doesn't even include the other side. When we respond to the murder of 3,000 of our citizens by getting that many soldiers killed again, and killing 30,000 or more in retaliation, yeah, it's horrific.
I don't think we should measure the horror of war relative to other wars; it is all a tragedy.
He IS half-white. I have a daughter who is mixed, and there is a difference between a black person (my wife), a white person (me), and a mixed person (my daughter). A white or black person can (and usually does) self-segregate in terms of friends and family. Sure, you may have co-workers and such that are a different race, but you rarely have to get into deep, meaningful discussions with them that lead to understanding one another on a fundamental level.
A mixed kid, on the other hand, has no opportunity to self-segregate. They are stuck with their mixed family at the very least. This is a very different way to grow up. In Obama's case, he was largely treated as a black guy by society in general and yet raised by white people. He truly has a perspective that is unique from a typical "black" person.
That said, I am fully aware that Obama (and for that matter, my daughter) is considered "black" by society at large. The first paragraph of my original post stated this as a rebuff to the guy above me who claimed that blacks will say that he's mixed. But I had to point out that an interracial guy is not going to have a purely "black" perspective - if such a thing still exists.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
How many black people voted for him simply because he has dark skin?
Very few. The Democrats have a lock on the black vote already. Any other Democrat would've done about as well. Instead of blaming the other side, maybe you should look at what the Republican party did to turn off those voters, like maybe race-baiting attacks from their media proxies, i.e. Rush, Hannity, Glenn Beck, etc.
Ahh, but we're not a Democracy, we're a Representative Republic. There may be some shortcomings, but over-all, I think we've got a decent system which generally avoids a "Tyranny of the Majority".
As an American I fervently hope that President Elect Obama will move forward on his campaign promises to get us out of the war in Iraq and will work to rebuild our relations with the rest of the world.
The Digital Sorceress
The reason why Nixon, reagan, and W all broke the law so much is because there is NO real penalty. W and his admin MUST be investigated.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Race is still a fiction. The fiction is based on selecting certain superficial features that have a genetic basis, and so there will be a loose correlation with other genetic traits in populations. The fiction is that one takes a handful of genetically-determined characteristics - skin color, hair color, facial features - and and treating it as a category.
You know what I think (and hope) will change? This election has proven that the status-quo of Republican smear tactics are no longer successful (or at least not AS successful). Facing this disastrous defeat, I hope that the Republicans take a step back and realize that such divisiveness is not good for a country. I think it's great that Kay Hagan got elected despite the despicable attacks made from her opponent. Furthermore, maybe they will return to their roots as a truly conservative party and quit trying to pander so much to the religious zealots and disgustingly rich. It's not about what Barack Obama will do create change, it's about what changes the Republicans will be forced to make in order to seem like a viable party again.
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game
Thank God.
Uh, no. How about thank the American voters.
myselfmusic
Maybe the election coverage was more positive for Obama than McCain because McCain halfway through the campaign decided to take off the gloves and go so stinking filthy dirty with his ads and rallies that it turned off anyone watching and the journalists writing about it.
Maybe truly horrendous campaigning leads to negative press, whodathunk?
I spent the last 5 days in Sun Valley, Nevada talking to people of all colors, knocking on their doors and asking them to vote. The feeling on the ground in this battleground state was HOPE. Real HOPE that we can get past the petty divisions that have kept this nation from progressing past Reagan.
All of us need to forgive the Republicans and invite them to JOIN us in creating the future America in which every American will have a stronger stake in our economy, socialized medicine, and equality for everybody. Because these things benefit the Republicans as much as they benefit us. It isn't us against them, it's us AND them. That has ALWAYS been the real message of the Obama campaign.
Today conservatives will try to shove the wedge between us again. We must tell their followers that their differing opinions have value while showing them our own values.
The era of gotcha politics has finally come to an end. If we want to move forward all of us have to forgive the Republican supporters. They still have a place in this country and we want them at our side. They can join us, or they can rally against us, but we're going to keep moving forward as a nation. Like I said, the things we want benefit them as well. We just have to show them how.
The Generation
I'd say something witty here, but I'm not that bright.
It is nonsense because luck plays a big role in personal success, no matter what you do. Luck can make you rich and luck can make you poor and luck can make you need a wheelchair. And it is nonsense because society (especially US society) does not give same opportunities to everyone. People do not have equal chances at all.
It has always been the politics of the conservative parties to keep up the myth you are spreading here and do as much as possible to not let solidarity happen: that what a really civilized society should be based on: to also let people live in dignity even if they had no luck and no oportunities.
Instead the republicans have pumped millions and billions into wars banks and into the task of killing hundreds of thousands of civilians all over the worlds, while letting their own people hunger and go without even basic medical care.
I won't keep you from going on with jerking off to your own success, but doing someting about one's own life might be necessary but certainly is not sufficient to make one's life better or even worth to be called human.
Go around, open your eyes and talk to people and maybe, just maybe, you will start to understand.
There ARE more than two parties. They're just not allowed to participate in the debates. Rectify that, and you'll see real change. The Republocrats are just two peas in the same pod, with very little to differentiate themselves from each other.
If third parties are on the majority of states' ballots, they should be automatically invited to the televised debates, period. If the two major parties have all the answers, then they should have nothing to fear.
"I might have made a tactical error in not going to a physician for 20 years." -- Warren Zevon
I know Republicans for whom Palin was the line they could not cross. I think the line should be drawn a lot earlier than that, but hey, it is what it is.
There is no question that the election of a half-Arab, half-Black child of a broken home to the Presidency of the United States *says* something to the world and to history about us as a country, as an ideal, that can never, ever, be taken away.
I think idiotic statements like are what defined what the rest of the world thought of the US before this election, don't keep it up. You almost made a good point until you detracted from your entire statement with this nonsense.
Obama's mother is from Wichita, Kansas, and is quite caucasian. His biological father is from Kenya, and was ethnically called a Luo, a subsaharan African ethnic group. His adopted father, while in fact a muslim, was ethnically indonesian. Not all muslims are arabs.
Arab is an ethnic term, and there is no evidence that Obama is in any way Arab (just like there's no evidence he's muslim). I can't fathom why you said this, other than the fact that you might be thinking arab=muslim. If that was the case, then that's just plain idiotic, and is yet another reason why the world hates us, because if we can't get that right, we can't get foreign policy right.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
Changing the USA mindset from fear mongering to hope is a huge thing in itself and is the first step towards rebuilding US as a nation and an international player.
While the "first black president" thing might be an historic moment for black civil rights, that is not what Obama is about.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
I'm 24 too. Don't worry, you'll get over the Ron Paul phase. Took me about a week - ended around the time I read some of the things he actually said, instead of the lofty philosophies his fans assigned to him.
The woman has claimed she speaks in tongues. That makes her a nutcase.
Last night, after it had been announced that Barack was President-Elect, Jesse Jackson was bawling his eyes out. I don't think it was because Jackson was thinking "That should have been me!", I think it was because Jackson was thinking "I used to think I would never live to see a day with a black president".
There were a lot of people in the US who still refused to vote for a black man. But now that it's happened and that Obama, who is a lot more mainstream than the Republicans painted him out to be, will show that most of those fears were as much utter rubbish as the Iraqi WMD, those kinds of attacks will be a lot harder to make stick on the next go round. When you repeatedly lie and are shown to have lied, your credibility takes a dive, even with the notoriously easily-distracted US electorate.
Obama would never have made it if Bush/Cheney incompetency and malevolence hadn't been so rampant that it so badly damaged the Republican brand. If you believe in an interventionist god, there were a lot of unusual circumstances (like the credit crisis and stock market crash) that were very timely in helping put him over the top. If fundamentalist Christians actually believe what they claim, they should be doing some heavy soul-searching today about whether the unlikelihood of the timing of those events isn't miraculous.
Not that I believe in some kind of supernatural intervention; the deregulation & supply side economics house of cards was bound to tumble down at some point in time. But I can't hold any respect for people who can't even stay consistent in the fantasies they expound to everyone else.
Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
so whatever he does to worsen the depression
Sounds like you've made your mind up already!
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
The hubris of the successful is often equally as unjustified. I think it's pathetic to look down on your common man because he failed in significantly different circumstances from those in which you succeeded.
I still find it amazing that he regularly attended that church for like 20 years, yet never found the preacher to be a racist, till those films of him in action got out.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
No thanks. I'll give a shit what color he is mainly because it's a pretty damn good gauge of how far America has come along in terms of overcoming some nasty racism.
We have come a long way in reducing racism. We've passed the hate to the next down the line.
Here's a vastly oversimplified view of the line:
1830: Americans hate and persecute the Irish immigrants.
1890: Americans (now including the Irish) persecute the Polish and other Eastern European immigrants.
All along: American whites (including Irish and Polish) persecute blacks.
20th century: American whites (and many blacks!) fear and persecute latino immigrants.
Yesterday, on the day the USA first elects a black president, three states passed constitutional amendments making gays second-class citizens with fewer rights. In California, nearly 70% of blacks and hispanics voted for Proposition 8.
Yes, we just pass the fear and hate on down the line. Human mass psychology seems incapable of producing happiness without having an "outsider" group to loathe and persecute.
Honestly, I'm fucking thrilled about Obama, but I'm starting to see the "moving past racism" thing as just another turn of the hate wheel.
Right now the arrow is pointing at Gays and Muslims and atheists. I wonder who will be the target(s) in 2030?
I stole this sig from someone cleverer than me.
There's a difference between a child deciding not to eat his vegetables and a taxpayer distrusting the motives and competence of a bureaucracy (or favoring a strictly limited role for that bureaucracy).
The government should not stand in loco parentis. As soon as it does, it has usurped the rights of its citizens and of its constituent states. Through it, the citizens have diminished themselves by requiring of themselves as individuals less than they should require.
Let me say that again: Government agencies are not parents. The courts are not parents. The legislatures are not parents. They have no rights as parents nor any parental responsibilities to their citizens. They have no right to decide who will eat and who will not. They have no right to decide who will be healthy and who will not. Make no mistake. There are not enough tax dollars nor enough bureaucrats to provide everyone with the standard of living they should have. Private citizens can meet these needs - locally and specifically - but government overhead will lead to waste and to inequity in the meeting of the peoples' needs. That is not just, nor right, nor good.
If my child does not eat her vegetables, she does not get dessert or TV after dinner. She loses the opportunity to do something she would enjoy doing. Or she gets to chance to eat them again the next night. There is some direct consequence. That is parenting.
If I do not pay my taxes, I get thrown in jail. If I do not like the way my tax dollars are spent, I can lobby my representatives to have government spending changed. That is appropriate government of a free people. If, however, the government decides that it will use my money any way it wants and that it no longer needs to listen when I object, that is tyranny.
If the government takes my money and uses it for something I don't want it used for, that is a problem. If it takes my money and gives me something less valuable in return, that is theft. I as the citizen am the final arbiter of the value of my dollars. I would not tolerate that behavior from a fellow citizen, from an employer, or from a business. I cannot see why I should have to tolerate it from the government.
Let me be clear on something else. I pay my taxes. I have put money into the system. If I wanted to, I could probably find a way to dodge those taxes or to shelter my income. I don't. I obey the laws. I fund the government and I vote in elections, so I have every right to an opinion on how that money should be spent. Every year when the US Federal government gives citizens their tax refunds, it tacitly admits that our money is still ours even when Congress and the Executive branch control it and that it already takes more than is lawful from some citizens.
If my preference for individual liberty, charity, and responsibility makes me greedy and selfish, then I am most assuredly and very proudly selfish and greedy, but I am not under any circumstances, a child. The very insinuation is condescending, insulting, slanderous, and absurd.
I would be very grateful if the government did not insist on trying to be the parent I as an adult no longer need.
Having a friends and enemies mentality is a reflection of what is really wrong with this country.
Its an illusion to make you think you are seperate from people. Dont buy into it. We are all connected one way or another.
Just that what seems important today may be an obscure, meaningless factoid 100 years from now.
You think that the fact that blacks have gone from a subclass to part of the ruling class in just 40 years is going to be a meaningless factoid?
Other then a feel-good pat on the back just how does being biracial insure that this man with a very, very thin resume will guide us through these difficult times?
I never claimed that, did I? I'm claiming that his racial background gives him a unique understanding about racial issues, and no more. I'm pretty sure that Obama or McCain would have been perfectly adequate to get us through the economic crisis, and it is ultimately a short-term problem anyway. Race, on the other hand, is a long-term problem that has scarred our country since it's founding. It's great to have an individual in the Presidency who can - just by existing - force us to confront some of our issues. It's even better that he can express our racial problems so eloquently.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
First let me state that I know full well that my restricting the discussion to the US narrows it by quite a bit... since we were discussing the US election I thought it was reasonable to restrict the discussion. While race is not a problem unique to the US, the US problem does have some unique aspects to it.
You mention that you are white, but there are so many different perspectives within this group that it would be meaningless for me to make any sort of comment about what white people think on a subject.
Whites are not so easily lumped together - I mean obviously at least 43% of the US white population is comfortable enough with a black man to elect him as president. And obviously there will be many, many overlapping opinions between blacks and whites... but the fact is that blacks 40 years ago did not have full civil rights. That scars one's psychology. And it's not as if the racism vaporized, so the scarring continues to this day. As a white man, racism rarely affects me. I encounter it quite often, but since only about 14% of people are black, the loss of opportunity there doesn't really affect me. As a result, I grew up not particularly sensitive to racism. Had I been black, my opportunities might have been far more restricted and my opinions would be far more shaped by racism.
This is something that _most_ blacks in the US have in common and _most_ whites in the US have in common, and it is constantly reflected in polls when they ask questions like "are racial conditions improving in the US". It's improving, but this is the current situation.
Can you think of any but the most contrived examples of something you could say that was representative of a white point of view?
Trust of police. White people generally trust police and see them as a good presence. Blacks tend to be more wary of police. Please note that I'm not saying that all blacks fear the police... it's just a tendency that correlates with race. There are many of these tendencies that together make up what I'm calling a "black point of view".
Another example would be slurs. You can drop the word "nigger" and it will almost universally cause a very unpleasant response among black people. Many (most?) whites won't like it, either - but it will really stir up some deep feelings among blacks. Compare this to whites... can you think of a single word that would get whites almost universally riled up? This is something that is shared by other minority groups which have been traditionally oppressed.
Another example is when some big heinous crime is reported, one of the first things through many (most?) black folks' minds is, "Oh, please don't be black." This simply doesn't happen in the white "community" - probably because we don't view ourselves as a community and from our perspective the actions of one of us do not reflect on the rest of us. However, what we don't consider is that this is not true from the perspective of other people/groups.
I'm saying that there is no supportable reason why someone must belong to the same ethnic group as someone else to share their perspective (and interests).
Oh, I would never claim that. I'm claiming to have an "in" on the black perspective and I'm white. I have this perspective because I'm married to a black woman and we had many, many really tough fights that were rooted in not understanding one another's perspective. Without months of really deep, contentious discussions with someone who I cared for deeply, I seriously doubt that I would have come to understand.
Election night was a different experience for me than for most white people. My wife first of all did not believe that a black man could win in the US. Even as they were calling states for Obama, she remained skeptical and kept asking me procedural ques
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.