Barack Obama Wins US Presidency

Last night, around 11pm, all the major networks announced that Senator Barack Obama had won the election. Soon after, Senator McCain conceded. There were no crazy partisan court hearings, just a simple election. This is your chance to talk about it and what it means for the future of our nation.

Comments

I'll Tell You What It Means

[eldavojohn]

It means the Democrats finally have a chance to screw everything up. By my count there are 56 D to 40 R in the Senate and 251 D to 173 R in the House. While there's still a few undecided yet, that's Democratic control of the Legislative and Executive Branches. Normally I like to see these things divided between the two parties so nobody gets too far away from lagom.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[Anonymous Coward]

Everything is already screwed up about as bad as it can get. There is some serious "left" listing that needs to happen to put us back on course.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[falcon5768]

First off, we haven't had a divided government since 06. And JUST because the Dems control the government doesn't mean its in any way a clean slate. Obama is not a normal Dem, he is a moderate in many ways (even though the Repugs tried to claim he was this super liberal which is more what his running mate is) And they are on notice. The Dems didnt get the magic 60, they WANT that filibuster proof margin and before they get it they have to cater to at least the fiscally conservative republicans to get them on their side. We dont have a Carter administration here, we have a whole different setup.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[Cerberus7]

I wish I could mod that up, because that's exactly why I voted the way I did this election. I voted D straight down the list for the first time ever. No mix and match, no attempt at balance. Straight Democrat. I feel a little dirty, but it needed to be done, and for the first time since I've been able to vote, I actually have hope that maybe this time it will be different. I was well on my way to becoming disillusioned and apathetic, but this time I care, and I'm hopeful.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[theM_xl]

The Dems may actually get 60. They're at 56 now and there's still 4 seats in the "too close to tell right now" territory.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[falcon5768]

Not insane or clueless, just dont read neo-con trash mags like Drudge, Fox News, and the National Journal. You hardly prove your point by posting links to known ultra-conservative sites. You could have posted a link to Stormfront for all that matters to try to prove your point.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[aliquis]

Lagom? lol, first time ever I've seen the word spread outside of Sweden :D

It's finally happening! After hundreds of years borrowing english, latin, german and french words our time has come! If only we built some new castles to! (On that topic, how nice to know we are shutting down all our military really fast nowadays while the russians are mobilising (though probably not to invade us :D))

Somewhat off-topic I know, but I can handle the negative moderation for spreading this awesome news about how we'll take over the world thru lagom!

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[Sique]

Of course, it won't be portrayed that way. The press will never jump on Obama's every misspoken word, or call out every contradiction in his policy. No, I expect that the press will go right on supporting this guy through thick and thin because they're married to him now.

And that is different to the Bush presidency between 2001 and 2006 exactly how?

I was hoping for a Bush win in 2004 for a simple reason: I wanted him to be president when the whole shit was stinking even up the noses of the big media. I wanted him to be president when it became clear to even the last and hardboiled conservative that President Bush was a failure. I wanted an actual reporting in the daily news how bad a president was in power.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[CrimsonAvenger]

they have to cater to at least the fiscally conservative republicans

Whyever do you think that the Democrats are in favour of fiscal conservatism? Remember all those big deficits in the Reagan years? Those budgets were passed by a Democratic controlled Congress who declared each of Reagan's proposed budgets "dead on arrival" before they proceeded to spend like drunken sailors.

Most likely, since the Republicans have never been the monolithic bloc described by the Democrats (both Parties are pretty much the same as far as it goes - 80-90% vote with the Party, 10-20% vote against the Party when their own next reelection might be jeopardized by joining the Party), the Republican swing votes (average 3-5 per vote, a different 3-5 depending on subject, of course) will be enough to make the Senate filibuster-proof.

Given, of course, that the Democrats can keep their own people in line.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[cayenne8]

"It's the way of things. And let's be honest here: things really just don't change all that much, and there's nothing this President and Congress can do that can't be undone by the next ones."

I dunno...

I've yet to see a government program truly get canceled. Once instantiated, they are like zombies, and you just can't seem to kill them off...they just keep coming back for more money.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[squiggleslash]

I think falcon got it right to be honest.

Both of the non-partisan links you point to show a senator who generally either votes with his party or doesn't bother to vote. The National Journal's claim that Obama is the "most liberal senator" follows a great tradition of claiming that every Democratic nominee is the most liberal, and was widely ridiculed when it came out, even in the MSM which was largely in the tank for McCain last year.

Obama doesn't have much of a voting record. His expressed viewpoints seem fairly moderate to me, certainly in line with most of the country. And your ridiculous claims about "having seeked out marxists and leftists" make you look like a kook.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[Pedrito]

As long as the senate can still filibuster, nothing too crazy will get through. If a party ever got 60 senators though, God help us!

Normally, I might agree with you, but a lot of those Republicans are coming up for election in 2010, and most of them are actually smart enough to read the writing on the wall. Filibustering every issue will not bode well for their chances for re-election, and they know it. I think Obama is going to be able to get a lot more done than some people think.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[theaveng]

I voted straight Republican, because I think they are unfairly being blamed (by folks like you) for the current mess, which properly lies on the head of ONE man (Bush). Also the Democrats were equally-complicit, since BOTH parties supported legislation that helped created the current crisis. And finally the Democrats held Congress for two years; did anything improve? Nope.

So to place all the blame on the Republicans is foolish IMHO; the blame lies mostly on Bush, with a remainder being spread-evenly across both sides of the Congress. Both R's and D's acted poorly these last two decades.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[Dave Tucker Online]

I agree. And as Boortz likes to say, the point where 50% of the county no longer pays income taxes will be a tipping point. (We are at about 43% right now.) At that point, there is no going back. You'll never get a majority of the people to agree to raise their own taxes. The majority will take more and more from the minority, and there will be nothing they can do but leave the country.

Just watch. In the next 4 to 8 years, you will see the numbers of those who don't pay income taxes rise from 43% to 50%. At the point, this country is Democrat controlled forever. (Unless the communists can convince people that the

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[EastCoastSurfer]

The problem is that we don't really know what Obama thinks. He's avoided most of the tough issues and done his best to not take any firm stances on anything. Frontline had a show on the other night about Obama and McCain. They had Obama's own strategist who said that not taking a stance on anything was their actual strategy. That way he would never have to defend it later. It allowed him to enter into a campaign with near zero baggage. They bet right that experience and really knowing where someone stood on an issue wouldn't matter as long as you talked about change and vague promises of giving stuff to people.

The best I can hope for is that Obama does what he did while running the law review - get the best people to do the job and not just those who agree with his ideology.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[fodder69]

And you don't think deregulation (a republican rallying cry) had anything to do with energy prices going up? Or deregulation of the financial sector? Or deregulation of the mortgage market? Or that Bush's energy policy (yes the president does have SOME influence) emphasizing rewarding campaign contributors over alternative sources had anything to do with it?

I guess it all just "happened" and no one had any influence on it.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[Hatta]

First off, we haven't had a divided government since 06.

How is a Republican president and a Democratic congress not a divided government?

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[Cerberus7]

Thank you for your thoughtful, and non-insulting reply. I agree that the blame mostly lies with Bush, but McCain's campaign clearly illustrated to me that the neocons who brought us Bush were still in charge of the Republican party. Until those idiots are no longer running that party, I will not vote for them. That sucks for the good Republicans, but they've got a lot of cleaning up to do. I wish them well.

I have hope that McCain will leave that crowd behind and do some good for what remains of his political career. His concession speech was nothing short of beautiful. His audience's reaction was atrocious, but I don't fault McCain for that.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[bzipitidoo]

That's what I did too. I'm very disappointed in McCain.

They've been saying this election really matters, that this time there is a huge difference between the 2 choices. I grant the difference. What I don't grant is that there were 2 good choices.

"If you're not a democrat when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a republican when you're old, you have no brain." -- Churchill. That's not true anymore. The Republicans gave up on the brains. W. is a dummy. The Republicans should have gone back to core philosophical differences, and McCain could have but he did not and that's why I'm so disappointed in him. They were the party of fiscal prudence, of standing on your own feet and not being a welfare deadbeat, of standing up to enemies and not wimping out, of eliminating bureaucratic red tape and heavy handed, clumsy government interference and intervention. Whether these are the best approaches has always been debatable, and that's what the Republicans and McCain should have stood for.

Instead, the Republicans continued standing for things that are not debatable because we know those things are wrong. Intelligent Design? Come on! The fundamentals of our economy are sound and we need more deregulation and more tax cuts for the wealthy, even as the market was collapsing thanks to all the lying in the absence of policing having finally strained things to the point that it couldn't be sustained anymore? Any city could save a pile of money up front if they dismissed their entire police force, and let citizens police themselves. But cities know better than that. A pity the Republicans couldn't grasp that this applies to markets too. Next, it doesn't matter what caused Global Warming?? Answering the question of whether the vice-presidency is part of the executive branch is pointless??? Stupid, stupid, stupid! Now, Republicans, as you sojourn in the wilderness, and may it last 40 years if need be, see if you can learn something. Don't bother trying to come back until you find some brains.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[nog_lorp]

Go on, I'm riveted.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[theaveng]

Like the Spanish-American War Tax that was applied to telephones in the 1890s. That tax continued sucking money for one hundred years until it was finally stopped.

When Congress passes laws, they should include a 25-year-sunset (the span of one generation), so the laws don't live forever. Same should apply to State laws.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[HiVizDiver]

It's a little disheartening how angry the ultra right-wing is about all this. They couldn't be more pissed about what happened last night, and a lot of them showed their true colors last night when they booed at Senator McCain's gracious speech, where he (along with Obama in his) tried to heal the divide in this country. That is the ONLY way we will successfully move forward.

The fact that 8 years of a Republican powerhouse has led us to where we are is apparent to everyone but the hardcore right, and so they take their aggression out on the people who have been clamoring for change. The "wild and unrestrained rhetoric from the left", I can assure you, was the only way to balance the wild and unrestrained spending and bombing from the right. The Republican party, as it stands today, can no longer use the mantra of "fiscal conservatives". Modern Republicans don't even seem to understand their own party's basic foundations anymore.

While I hope that Republicans, Democrats, and Independents alike can come together to try and solve the problems of our great nation, I fear that as the last few cards in the old house fall, the few of the old guard left are going to be more interested in pointing fingers and trying to shift blame, so sure they were right all along.

Is Barack Obama the messiah? No, that's ridiculous. Is he going to solve every problem? No, and I said that months ago, before I even decided to vote for him. I don't see how anyone, even with a Congressional and Senatorial majority (and we've seen how those presidencies go) can fix all these issues. Some of them, including the 1 TRILLION dollar debt, are going to take generations to fix. So sadly, I do believe that there is little hope that in terms of effectiveness, Barack Obama will be seen as anything more than mediocre, at best. In this day and age of people needing instant gratification, when the economic crisis isn't solve in a month or a year or one term, he'll be tarred and feathered, the right will crow triumphantly and say "See! We told you so!", the left will go back to worrying, wringing their hands, and running around like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off, and once again, ordinary tax-paying citizens (I'm not talking about you, Joe the Plumber, you just keep taking your family handouts and not paying your taxes) will get stuck with the check.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[pcolaman]

There are a lot of sore losers in the Republican camp at the moment, but can you blame them? The same would've happened on the Obama side had McCain won. I think one of the most important things that Obama can and should do first is to try and bring the nation back together. The partisanship in this country has created a vicious divide between Liberals and Conservatives.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[TheSpoom]

Barack Obama's stance on just about everything. I hear this argument a lot that he's just saying "change" without any concrete ideas for how to do so, but it's simply incorrect. The campaign's series of YouTube videos starting with "Blueprint for Change" also details what he'll actually do as president: You can watch the Obama campaign's videos here.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[filterban]

Don't look now, but you are officially an author of the most concise and rational explanation of why the Republican party is in shambles.

The crazy thing is that McCain and Palin's "maverick" reputations still weren't enough to quell the insanity of the clowns that are in charge of that party. McCain's concession speech was indeed a beautiful thing, and you could see the "real" John McCain, freed from the irrational fear-mongering that the Republican party has been flinging at us for the past eight years.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[illumin8]

The problem is that we don't really know what Obama thinks. He's avoided most of the tough issues and done his best to not take any firm stances on anything.

I don't think that's accurate at all. Obama has had clear and easy to read information on his website for months now stating his policy on the Iraq war, the Economy, Healthcare, and other major issues. He came right out and had the most no-nonsense tax policy ever, and he clearly beat McCain on taxes.

At least with Obama, he was up front and said "if you make more than $250,000 you might see a tax increase." McCain doesn't even tell you that the $5,000 tax credit you get back for medical insurance probably won't cover the average family of 4's insurance premiums, costing the middle class more. McCain hid a middle class tax hike by not being truthful with the American people. Obama was up front that we'd all have to make sacrifices, and you know what? It paid off. Obama got a higher percentage of the voters that even make $200,000 or more! It goes to show that even affluent, educated Americans in the higher tax brackets don't mind making a few sacrifices instead of borrowing against our children's future.

As soon as the Republicans move away from the slash-and-burn, anything for a quick buck, overspend and hope our kids will bail us out economic policies of the neocons, then they can finally start rebuilding their party.

Where are all the so-called "conservative" Republicans, and what did the religious wackos and crazy spending neocons do with them?

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[YttriumOxide]

China is communist, not socialist - please look up the difference.

Australia is conservative, not socialist - believe it or not, both are capable of limiting rights to an uncomfortable level - usually just for different (spoken) reasons. Many countries that lean strongly towards conservatism (such as Australia) limit the citizens rights uncomfortably, and many countries with a more socialist leanings (such as the Netherlands) do not. That's not to say that there aren't socialist countries that do and conservative countries that don't, just that it's not as black and white as you make out.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[aliquis]

"Lagom is best", is translated as "Enough is as good as a feast"

To get the actual meaning I'd say "an adequate but not excessive amount works the best."

As in:
To get lagom drunk.
The foods spicing was lagom.
The bath temperature was lagom.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is some home work for you.. Look up the term Con artist[...]I'm not saying that Obama is a con artist,but[...]

And that sort of disingenuous statement is why a lot of the outside world sees many republicans as being liars, and not even any good at lying. You would have done better to stick to the issues (e.g. clean coal).

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[meringuoid]

"If you're not a democrat when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a republican when you're old, you have no brain." -- Churchill.

Strange terms for a British politician to use; a democrat is someone who thinks that the government should be elected by the population at large, and a republican is either someone who thinks that the monarchy should be replaced with an elected head of state, or someone who thinks the British should get the hell out of the north of Ireland.

I think Churchill used the terms 'Socialist' and 'conservative'. And he should know; he changed sides between the Tories and the Labour Party. Twice.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[jlowery]

Original quote:

Francois Guisot (1787-1874): "Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."

Churchill said something similar, but he was probably paraphrasing Guisot.

Re:I'll Tell You What It Means

[Eskarel]

If you want to know what happened to the Republican party, have a listen to McCain's concession speech.

McCain shows integrity, dignity, and all the things which made me want to vote for him in 2000(not that I got a chance) left winger though I might be.

If you listen to his supporters though, you don't hear any of that, you hear boos, and hootin and hollerin, you hear the essence of what the republican party has become.

The Republican party has become not a party of fiscal conservatism, not a party of small government, but a party of fear, hatred, intolerance and greed.

I'm thrilled that Obama won the presidency, but watching that concession speech made me sad because the John McCain who ran in 2000 and the John McCain in that speech showed a level of reason and dignity that reaches accross party lines. That John McCain would have made a good president, but he didn't run that campaign, he didn't choose that VP, and he didn't cater to those voters.

Instead he ran a dirty campaign, chose Sarah Palin, and catered to the ignorant and bigotted.

There are in this world genuine supporters of the ideals of the republican party, and I can understand their view points, even if I don't always agree with them. Unfortunately the party has sold itself to a group of people I cannot and never will find common political ground with.

The religious right is destroying America.

Drunk wisdom

[carbon 68k]

A fellow bar patron put it best:

"BLUE TEAM WINS"

Re:Drunk wisdom

[cgenman]

"Red Warrior needs food... Badly"

Re:Drunk wisdom

[NoisySplatter]

Green Elf shot the food!

Re:Drunk wisdom

[Ihmhi]

Gold Five: Stay off topic.

Gold Leader: It's too close!

Gold Five: Stay off topic!

Gold Leader: Loosen up!

Gold Five: Gold Five to Red Leader, lost House, lost Senate.

First thing I thought about...

[Noryungi]

Rev. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream".

Re:First thing I thought about...

[Beyond_GoodandEvil]

Rev. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream".
Me too, especially when everybody started talking about the color of the president elect's skin. As such I am hereby starting a new internet meme, "DKDI" pronounced decay-dee-eye which stands for Dr. King's dream indeed. Use this phrase anytime someone mentions the color of Obama's skin, if the person you say this to is intelligent, they might stop to think about how far we still have to go, if they're stupid they'll merely assume you agree with their particular wonder at the most recent election.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[TheSpoom]

Or maybe you shouldn't be using a dead person's hypothetical opinions to promote your own agenda.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[Anne_Nonymous]

Skim MLK?

Re:First thing I thought about...

[VJ42]

I voted for Obama, but he's not even close to MLK.

I think that the GP meant that MLK's famous dream has been fulfilled, not that Obama is somehow as great as Dr King.

My own opinion chimes with that of one of our most famous leaders: "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else." - Winston Chirchill. After the world suffering eight years of GWB, the quote somehow seemed appropriate.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[Anonymous Coward]

As such I am hereby starting a new internet meme

Memes do not work that way.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[joyfeather]

In the 1970's there were still parts of the beach in Daytona where blacks were not allowed to go. In the 1980's, the police routinely were called when a group of blacks went to the beach "because they might be planning a riot or something." In the 1990's, there were still restaurants where, if I took a black friend, we could not enjoy our meal because we would be stared at the entire time. There are parts of Florida (and I am sure elsewhere) where the KKK still has power. And last night, Florida, as well as the rest of the United States, elected an African American as President. We may have a long way to go, but we are getting there.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[Noryungi]

Oh, my goodness! Finally someone who took the time to try and understand what I was trying to say.

Thank you.

And, I might add (as a Frenchman) that that Churchill quote you wrote about was also a close second... :-)

Re:First thing I thought about...

[ketilwaa]

As far as I can tell, there's a history of white people voting close to 100% white in presidential elections. (Take it as a lame joke, or acknowledge the point)

African-american people voting for an african-american candidate is not necessarily a problem. My view: It is a natural thing, stemming from years and years of oppression. If this is still the case in 200 years, we (or should I say they, as I'll bed dead then) might have a problem.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[Theolojin]

Rev. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream".

(I didn't vote for Senator Obama.) I told my three children this morning (11, 7, & 5) about this historic occasion. When I pointed out that when Senator Obama was a young boy, black folk had to use different drinking fountains than white folk and had to use different bathrooms and go to different schools, they were stunned (especially the 11-year-old) that segregation was so recent. In a couple months we will have an African-American as president of the United States. How far we've come.

God bless America.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[jellomizer]

Obama Speech was good but not quite at the same level.
BHO speech is to MLK speech
as
Windows is to OS X

A nice try not quite the same as well its focus was different a bit too.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[chrb]

when Senator Obama was a young boy, black folk had to use different drinking fountains than white folk and had to use different bathrooms and go to different schools

When Senator Obama was a young boy, the mixed-race marriage of his parents was illegal in many states.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[theaveng]

According to exit polls (not actual votes), 95% of blacks voted for Obama. 5% actually voted for McCain, so yeah, they decided to make history and put into power the first black president. The exit polls show that ~65% of Asians/Latinos supported for Obama. Only 43% of whites supported for Obama. If this has been a whites-only election, McCain would now be president.

AGE: The results indicate that older voters are more conservative, with support for McCain gradually increasing from 32% (median age 23) to 44% (median age 34) up to 53% (65 or older). People become less liberal and more conservative as they advance in years.

Any theories why that might be? Perhaps they are trying to protect their lifelong-accumulated wealth from Democrat redistribution?

Re:First thing I thought about...

[ArsonSmith]

This all depends on what happens to affirmative action now. Either:

1) Obama worked his way to become president under his own will and affirmative action is no longer necessary.
or
2) Obama has been elected president due (at least in part) to the color of his skin and not the content of his character.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[the phantom]

The thing is, I don't think that MLK's dream has been fulfilled. Yes, a black man has been elected as our next president, and that is an incredible thing, and goes some distance towards showing how much things have changed since the 60s. On the other hand, minorities are still disproportionately poor; the criminal system still disproportionately punishes people of color; minorities still do not have a proportionate number of people in power in state and local governments or in the the upper echelons of private industry; and, oddly enough, there are a good number of people who voted for a "nigger" only because they were so tired of Bush that any alternative, even if it is someone they hate, would be better than McCain. Additionally, MLK talked of a time when people would not be judged on the basis of skin color. Throughout the entire race, Obama's skin color has been an issue. Both campaigns tried to downplay it, but it was still an issue. Listen to the comments made by audience members at several of the McCain and Palin rallies, for instance, and the lack of admonishment from either of those politicians. We still have a long way to go. Don't get me wrong, the election of Obama is a fantastic step in terms of civil rights, but don't think for a second that it is the fulfillment of MLK's dream.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[Aris Katsaris]

Utter nonsense. MLK wasn't even referring to racism when he said these words: he was referring to Vietnam and America acting as "the policeman of the world".

Here's the context:
Don't let anybody make you think God chose America as his divine messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with justice and it seems I can hear God saying to America "you are too arrogant, and if you don't change your ways, I will rise up and break the backbone of your power, and I will place it in the hands of a nation that doesn't even know my name."

Do you think that MLK living today wouldn't speak the exact same words about Iraq as he spoke back then about Vietnam?

Re:First thing I thought about...

[clone53421]

I am hereby starting a new internet meme, [...] if the person you say this to is intelligent,

Memes definitely do not work that way.

Re:First thing I thought about...

[Yvanhoe]

Their children will be stunned when they'll tell that when they were young, gay marriage was forbidden, smoking pot could send you to jail and that creationism still had adepts.

God bless America.

Re:Two words

[GigaHurtsMyRobot]

Let's hope

Fallout from the election

[PIPBoy3000]

I think Washington D.C. will become a radioactive wasteland and the survivors will spend their waking hours hunting mutant ants in collapsed subways.

Oh, wait. My copy of Fallout 3 arrived yesterday and that's all I can think about.

Deck chairs on the Titanic

[bugeaterr]

Thoroughly, and decisively, re-arranged.

Re:Deck chairs on the Titanic

[nizo]

At least the Captain who kept steering us into icebergs will be replaced soon, though possibly not soon enough.

Re:Two words

[Anonymous Coward]

As a european citizen, thank USA!

Re:Two words

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? Did he vote?

Re:Two words

[neoform]

The whole world agrees with those sentiments.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

[Kenoli]

http://i33.tinypic.com/zx6yi8.jpg

Re:C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

[hansamurai]

For some reason that picture makes me hungry for some KFC.

What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, there was an election?

Re:Two words

[Anonymous Coward]

Democrats believe in God?

The UK perspective

[Anonymous Coward]

Just watched Obama's victory speech on the BBC, he namechecked Lincoln and derided Wall Street. If this is anything other than empty rhetoric he's not going to last a year. To paraphrase Ian Hislop on last weeks HIGNFY (popular UK satire quiz), "They're expecting a landslide and if that doesn't get him, the CIA will have to find some other way".

Reputation

[radius1214]

I firmly believe that Barack Obama is going to bring the change we need to alter the way the world see us. We need to earn back a little of our reputation that the eight previous years have lost us. We need to talk, discuss, and use diplomacy instead of force. I'm very glad that Obama won. I sincerely hope that he can keep all his promises he made to the American people, and with control of the house and senate, it looks likely that he won't have any trouble passing bills.

Re:Reputation

[Jedi Alec]

Why do you care how we look to the rest of the world? Let's worry about the problems in our country. I really don't give two shits about how some snoppy European views our country.

Great! Recall the troops from Afghanistan guys! The Yanks can handle it by themselves.

Re:Reputation

[brian0918]

We need to talk, discuss, and use diplomacy instead of force.

Yes, because when a lunatic leader sees he can make insane threats and then get a roundtable with the leaders of the world, everbody wins!

I sincerely hope that he can keep all his promises he made to the American people, and with control of the house and senate, it looks likely that he won't have any trouble passing bills.

I also hope he passes everything he promised. Then maybe people will stop blaming "deregulation" (which in reality turns out to be more regulation) and start blaming the real problem.

Re:Reputation

[tftp]

Why do you care how we look to the rest of the world? Let's worry about the problems in our country.

Those two issues are related.

Re:Reputation

[Anonymous Coward]

His promises:
- Increase Capitol Gains Tax
- Let the Bush Tax cuts expire in 2010
- Raise our Taxes
- Pass the unconstitutional "Fairness Doctrine"
- Remove the ability for union's to have secret ballots
- Expand welfare instead of trying to make people self-sustaining and get them off of it

Yeah... those are some *great* things to look forward to.

Re:Reputation

[Evanisincontrol]

Why do you care how we look to the rest of the world? Let's worry about the problems in our country. I really don't give two shits about how some snoppy European views our country.

Yeah, I mean, it's not like foreign policy really has any effect at all on the way our country is run or anything.

Re:Reputation

[McDutchie]

I firmly believe that Barack Obama is going to bring the change we need to alter the way the world see us. We need to earn back a little of our reputation that the eight previous years have lost us.

We hate to burst your bubble, but the reputation of the USA has been steadily going down the tubes starting with the war in Vietnam. George W. Bush was merely the final product of a climate that grew since about that time. Bill Clinton was no peacemaker either, and don't forget that Billary cheerfully threatened to totally obliterate Iran if she were to become president.

We have seen nothing to convince us, so far, that Barack Obama is anything more than a smooth-talking exponent of the same war- and fearmongering system, and that he won't do what he is told by the corporate fascist establishment like every good puppet before him. Before Bush; the USA's reputation in the world was gravely damaged; after Bush; it's simply destroyed. It's going to take more than electing a biracial candiate to start rebuilding it from scratch. It will take a generation or two at least, if it's going to happen at all.

Sincerely,

The rest of the world

Re:Reputation

[squizzar]

Because if the rest of the world likes you, they might stop thinking up ways to blow you up. When you say please don't build any Nuclear missiles they might actually listen. Hell there's a chance that people won't take the whole 'giving people democracy thing' as such a bad joke if you actually came across as well meaning and decent. It's not just the Europeans you need to consider, but if you did, then next time you decide to start a war you might get help from someone other than the Brits.

And if you're going to throw out insults (the OP never mentioned by whom or where that reputation might be held btw.) they could at least be real insults. That said kudos for coming up with a word that isn't in the urban dictionary.

Re:Reputation

[chrb]

Of course they can. They're going it alone just like they did in Iraq and Vietnam.

Maybe you'd like to tell the families of the 120 British casualties (versus 607 US casualties) from Afghanistan that the Yanks have been "going it alone" for all this time?

Re:Reputation

[Anonymous Coward]

See:
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1019121&cid=25641579

Strange no one has mentioned this but..

[s0litaire]

This Scot, for one, welcomes our Democraticly elected African-American overlord :D

The party of big government

[bugeaterr]

The party of big government soundly defeated the other party of big government.

Too bad for those of us who think the government is getting dangerously big.
15 million people are employed by, and have a vested interest in an the size and power of, the federal government, let alone state and local.

Re:The party of big government

[Iridium_Hack]

I couldn't agree with you more. I ended out voting libertarian, though knew they couldn't win. The two main parties are sort of like chocolate and strawberry milk - two flavors of the same thing (though not as tasty). I think there are a few Republicans in the House that have some respect for balancing the budget. At least they (initially) opposed the buyout. But other than that, I'm not so sure

Be careful of your thoughts; they could become words and deeds at any minute.

Re:The party of big government

[jesdynf]

I've voted Libertarian in the two elections prior to this one; I live in Texas, so it's not like non-Republican votes count anyways.

This year? The best way to advance the libertarian agenda? I voted for the Democrat. Straight ticket, in fact.

Torture? Indefinite detention? This is how we do things in America, is it?

Here's the whole thing in a nutshell -- I can win an argument about money. I can't win an argument about what God told you to do, and I'm mad that I have to even try. "God says it's the right thing to do" caused all this garbage. The proper response to 9/11 was $500 in cabin door locks and a *memo to the pilots* explaining how certain critical assumptions we made were flawed. Everything else is exactly what the American-educated bin Laden expected and in fact desired. Mission accomplished, O spiritual warrior. And the Republican party as a whole gets tarred with this brush because they didn't step up to defend the Constitution of our nation.

I've deliberately done what I can to force the Republican Party to fracture and squeeze out either the godnuts or the socially liberal. Then maybe I can vote for economic conservatism without lumping it in with votes for totemic spirits. I'll deal with four or eight years of bad financial decisions because even if the far right wingnuts are correct, I'd STILL rather starve than torture and kill for Jesus.

(So far I've been (apparently) banned on RedState and been banned on FreeRepublic. You'd think they'd be more sensitive to Constitutional issues, especially among people historically voting libertarian.)

Re:The party of big government

[aaron alderman]

What can you do about the government when it gets too big and restricts your 2nd amendment rights?

Re:The party of big government

[jesdynf]

I didn't say I expected them to be better. I've got *hopes* -- Obama might well be able to deliver. I'd be delighted if it happens. But I talked about changing the *Republican* party to better suit me.

Re:United States Socialist Republic

[antiaktiv]

I can't tell if this is a joke or not, but people all over the world are laughing at the notion of Obama being a socialist. As in the 90s, at least we can rejoice over the lesser of two evils winning.

As a Canadian, let me say...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well done, America. You've taken your first step toward re-establishing your international credibility by voting out the Republicans, who have played a large part in engineering the current state of international affairs. We recognize that your country is in a pretty deep hole left by the last administration, but we trust you'll do your best.

Re:As a Canadian, let me say...

[Anonymous Coward]

*cough* Kennedy (Vietnam) *cough* Johnson (Vietnam) *cough* Clinton (pissed off al-queda by declaring war) *cough*

Get real BOTH 'sides' had a large helping hand in that. To say 'only the republicans did this' ignores history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_history_events

We shall see if they are the party of 'change' they OWNED the congress for the past ~2 years and did nothing but follow party line. Some change. They have shown themselves to be the other big government group. For example the DMCA (a subject near and dear to Slashdot crowd) you can thank the democratic party for that.

I say it here right now in 4 years we will be discussing the same things.

The ONLY way he can change the system is to make it even worse than it was. You know more laws to enforce his way of thinking...

Re:As a Canadian, let me say...

[Yvan256]

Yeah, but remember that for a while, Canadian Tire money was worth more than the US dollar.

At least when shopping at Canadian Tire, eh?

Re:Two words

[s0litaire]

Yup! he voted for his son, Obama... :D

Re:Birth pangs of our great socialism

[MadMidnightBomber]

Congratulations socialists.

You're most welcome.

Re:W00t! Welfare for all!

[Il128]

Under Bush we all got "Stimulus checks" redistribution of wealth, we "nationalized banks", we "nationalized insurance companies", we "nationalized brokerage houses", and we gave trillions in welfare to Iraq...

And now you're worried about socialism? Welcome to last year.

Re:Two words

[molog]

Why? Is Obama really that much better than McCain? Would McCain have been worse than Bush? I just saw two complete liars campaigning. Obama just got away with telling bigger lies. The only thing I can hope for is that the Republicans can filibuster the Democrats' bills. Not so much to push a Republican agenda, but to keep either party from screwing us any more than they currently do.

Molog

Re:Obligatory!

[Goffee71]

Nak, you should be welcoming your new "hey-buddy-just-the-same-as-you-lord", I thought that was his stand, anyway I don't see any death-laser-eyeballs or fists of fury that Palin was packing.

Off the Rails

[Electrawn]

An off the rails presidency and party received a swift rebuke to restore the core values enshrined in the constitution.

Meanwhile, the China Credit Card bill needs payment and the global economy is entering a bad recession.

The political shift in the country is probably a game changer for the Democratic party for the next two decades.

Thanks, American voters.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure I'll be modded out, but as an Australian... can I just say, THANK YOU America for making the right decision.

Your country has a huge influence on us and I am so glad you are taking a positive step forward into what I hope will be a new era for us all.

Re:Thanks, American voters.

[MMC Monster]

The important things wasn't who wins the election, but to get Bush out of the White House. The rest is just semantics. (I am an Obama supporter, who could have easily gone for McCain if it wasn't for Palin being on the ticket.)

Congratulations on making a historic event happen

[Drakkenmensch]

Watching on CNN the sea of people in Chicago cheering for President Elect Obama and his victory speech convinced me that this was one of those unique moments, the kind that people decades from now will remember and ask each other "Do you remember where you were when Obama was elected?" Truly a great moment.

Hope and fear

[Cro Magnon]

Hope because the idiots that have been running the country for nearly a decade are gone, fear that the new bunch of idiots aren't any better.

Re:Two words

[matthardcast]

The democrats now control the house, senate, and the presidency. I think "dear god" might be more appropriate.

Ron Paul

[hansamurai]

This was easily the best election I ever participated in. Mostly because of Ron Paul. He opened my eyes to real liberty and true freedoms, and I've been a changed person man ever since. I'm not going to take crap from the two parties sitting down anymore, and I have real hope for this country, that someday we all might really be free from the federal government. I was also exposed to Ayn Rand and read her fiction, and really enjoyed it.

I wrote Ron Paul in, and I was beyond happy the rest of the day. It honestly felt awesome to vote for someone that I honestly believe in, an opportunity I've never taken before.

Re:Ron Paul

[orzetto]

I was also exposed to Ayn Rand

Please report immediately to decontamination area 4. Remember to burn all your clothes. Exposed items you wish to decontaminate must be collected in a sealed, transparent plastic bag and handed in to the paramedical personnel at your decontamination area.

Re:Ron Paul

[jmknsd]

because the only oath a person takes when becoming a congressman or president is to uphold the constitution. Condemning bad things isn't in there, so he votes against it. A similar example, a vote to give an award of some sort to Rosa Parks, he voted against it, and then offered to pay for it himself. Because buying awards for nice people isn't in the constitution, and if you follow his economics, you will understand that he is opposed to spending other peoples money on things that are not explicitly stated in the constitution.

Re:Ron Paul

[T3hD0gg]

Why is this modded as funny?

This is what people should be doing. I doubt anyone here can honestly say they trust Barack Obama as much as this guy can trust Ron Paul.

Re:Ron Paul

[Rich0]

Keep in mind the dispute over abortion comes down to whether unborn children are considered humans with civil rights. A libertarian opposed to abortion isn't really any more inconsistent than a libertarian opposed to lynchings. Libertarians aren't anarchists - they do believe that it is the proper purpose of government to establish and enforce criminal law. Murder clearly ought to be illegal, so the question becomes whether stuff like abortion, euthenasia, assisted-suicide, etc is murder.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Finally!

[The AtomicPunk]

Finally we can tax ourselves into prosperity!

Who wants to take bets on:

Us not withdrawing from Iraq?

Whether most slashdotters with decent IT careers end up paying more taxes?

Don't take this wrong, McCain sucks too. I just wish people would stop drinking from either coolaid.

Re:Finally!

[st0rmshad0w]

Well honestly what can you expect, when the last band of idiots was allowed to run up a 7 trillion dollar deficit? SOMEONE is going to have to pay that off.

Re:Finally!

[jez9999]

Right. Thing is, Obama's tax increases wouldn't hit you because they'll only apply to people who make over about $250k/year. I think it's a very good thing, and I'd like to see tax rates close to 100% for people with more than, say, 10 million dollars. The distortion of wealth distribution in the US has reaches such absurd levels that a drastic correction is needed. Redistribute these absurd quantities of money to the middle and lower classes, fast.

Re:Finally!

[sxpert]

well, see over here, as a state employee in .fr, I make less than 30k net a year.
out of that, I pay about 3k in income tax, and another 1.5k in local taxes.
thing is, I don't have to worry about things like health insurance... when I go to the doctor, I present my state health insurance agency card, and off I go. same when I go to the pharmacy to pick up the goods... add to this, that my mother, who just came out from a double breast cancer also didn't have to pay a cent to be properly treated (including 4 or 5 surgeries)...
now, try to beat that with the current fucked up healthcare system you have in the US...

Re:Finally!

[bigmouth_strikes]

What's with the obsession with taxes? The difference in taxation of the last 30 years worth of budgets with their tax breaks and tax hikes are comparatively small with regards to your consuming power as it relates to other economic effects and measures.

Take the last 8 years for instance, GW Bush has effectively wiped out any tax-break by a) running up the deficit b) running up the inflation c) spending trillions of your tax money on a phony war and d) financial crisis.

So a 3-5% tax break on a $100,000 income is pointless with a 4-5% inflation and mortgage rates almost doubling the last few years.

Looking strictly at what ends up in your pocket after the taxes are paid and not what you get for your taxes or the overall economic situation is a simple reaction to a simplified issue from a simple person.

Re:Finally!

[sxpert]

That's fine. How about those who would rather invest their money in innovative companies that build jobs? Oh, too bad, they have to give it to the government as a handout to the unproductive, who will remain unproductive as long as they're sucking on mama's teat.

hmm, well... last I checked, companies in question were designing things in india, producing in china, and selling the shit in the US, all in the name of giving the pension funds their annual 20% profits... I don't see no US jobs in there
so no, it doesn't make any sense to do what you're advocating

Re:Finally!

[brian0918]

hmm, well... last I checked, companies in question were designing things in india, producing in china, and selling the shit in the US

Who said I was arguing for the status quo? The reason jobs went overseas is government manipulation of the economy. I won't pretend (unlike others) that the situation can be fixed without undoing the damage that has been done. The only way it can be undone, though, is by overturning the legislation that caused the problem. Then shipping costs will be unappealing and jobs will come back home. Until then, don't hate companies for surviving and trying to give you the lowest-priced product possible despite government manipulation.

Re:Finally!

[CrimsonAvenger]

and I'd like to see tax rates close to 100% for people with more than, say, 10 million dollars.

This pretty much describes the pre-Kennedy tax environment. Note that Kennedy called for the largest tax cut in American history. Note that Kennedy's tax cuts pretty much helped the wealthiest Americans. Note that the economy pretty much boomed as a result. Note that tax revenues increased dramatically as well.

Note that Reagan called for the second-largest tax cut in history. With the same results.

Note finally that the wealthy paid a HIGHER portion of income taxes after the Bush tax-cut than they did in the Clinton years.

Want to bet that after the Obama tax increases on the wealthy that the wealthy end up paying a smaller fraction of the income taxes than they do now?

Re:Two words

[ByOhTek]

Where have you been the past 8 years?

Anyway, I can't say Obama would be significantly better (or worse) than McCain, McCain just too much risk of Palin becoming president. I think she would have made us look back on the "golden years of Bush"

I recorded..

[DanWS6]

all of the campaign ads so I can slowly wean myself off instead of going cold turkey.

where are mod points where you need them

[pimpimpim]

Nicely put!

As far as the new president is concerned: the guy has a lot of shit to clean up now, and we don't even know what's still coming. He will have to take a lot of unpopular measures, and I really wonder if he can keep a high popularity for long.

Re:where are mod points where you need them

[brian0918]

The problem with cleaning it up is that he has proposed - like McCain - to make it worse rather than better. You can't fix government interference in the economy with increased interference.

Re:All I can say now is...

[Drakkenmensch]

This argument that "The terrorists will attack because Obama is inexperienced" never fails to remind me of the Robot Chicken episode where the arab terrorists attack an elementary school because a little boy said "Fart" during the pledge to the flag. "He said FART! They are weak! We must attack!"

yeah

[Reality Master 201]

Sounds great, I think. Finally, no more lunatic right wing ideology running the country.

Re:yeah

[aaron alderman]

Yeah! Now we have lunatic left wing ideology running the country.

Re:God didn't

[ByOhTek]

No, I know many of use who belive in God who voted Obama.

And if people were truely sick of being treated like shit, there would be 3rd party candidates in the house and senate, enough of them were up for election!

Re:Birth pangs of our great socialism

[Anonymous Coward]

You can sit on the sidelines, complaining your way to complete misery. Or you can get on board with Obama and his supporters, and do what needs to be done to get this nation back on track.

Seriously, dude, Obama is not a socialist, and Bush put an end to more liberties than Obama would ever have any inclination to end. Your views are seriously out of line with reality. On second thought, maybe it is best if you stay on the sidelines.

Re:Two words

[canUbeleiveIT]

I have never seen such hysteria for a candidate in my life. With the type of overwrought messianic expectations that he faces, there is no way to go for Obama but down.

I'm not saying that he deserves it, but when these pie-in-the-sky types realize that he is human like the rest, and that he won't be able to wipe the tear from every eye, his approval rating will take a serious hit.

Re:Two words

[ScentCone]

The whole world agrees with those sentiments

Because, just like US voters, they have no idea what's just been done. Voting for ambigious, platitudinous "change" is nothing more than making a blank canvas out of a guy that it's soothing to vote for because electing him has the sidebar benefit of taking a bit of race resentment off the table. If you listened to his speech last night (even if you've missed so many others), you heard one thing: he was about the campaign, and about the process of being elected. That's what he was most proud of, not some mandate or vision (since neither has been clearly expressed, nor promised). His supporters are in for the same rude awakening he is, when it comes to the reality of him getting his first ever real job.

There are, though, two silver linings. First, at least the senate isn't a supermajority rubber stamp. Second, when he runs for re-election next time, it can finally involve looking at some sort of actual record of his - and a whole lot of people who were caught up the historical significance of skin color can come back to their senses and realize they're hiring someone for an actual executive job, not trying to win a high school debate on style points.

Re:Congratulations on making a historic event happ

[Rogerborg]

I was writing joystick handling code on a Ubuntu install running under VMware. Truly, a momentous occasion.

The Real Surprise is in Alaska

[shma]

Obama's win was widely predicted, although most people underestimated his support (right now, it looks like he will take 364 electoral votes).

The biggest surprise of the night is in Alaska, where against all odds, they elected a convicted criminal to the US senate.

Re:The Real Surprise is in Alaska

[maz2331]

They know he'll be expelled, but that the Governor (
Palin) will appoint his successor to serve out the rest of the term.

It was basically a choice of "yes" or "no" to giving a Republican seat to the Democrats.

Everyone knows Stevens is going to prison. His reelection just serves as a placeholder for the person who's actually going to take the Senate seat in his stead.

I don't believe that the Governor can appoint herself to the post, so at least the Democrats don't have to worry about hearing the words "Senator Palin".

Re:The Real Surprise is in Alaska

[shma]

They know he'll be expelled, but that the Governor ( Palin) will appoint his successor to serve out the rest of the term....I don't believe that the Governor can appoint herself to the post, so at least the Democrats don't have to worry about hearing the words "Senator Palin".

Actually, it's a little more complicated than that, even if he is kicked out of the senate, which requires a 2/3 majority senate vote that is not guaranteed (Stevens wasn't even supposed to be elected, so I'm not making ANY assumptions here).

In Alaska, the governor doesn't have the power to appoint senators. If he is kicked out, Palin will have to call a special election. And I don't believe that there's any law forbidding her from running. So 'Senator Palin' is most certainly a possibility.

And regardless of their intent, over 106,000 Alaskans still put down a vote for a convicted criminal. The extreme partisanship required to do that is beyond comprehension.

Re:The Real Surprise is in Alaska

[DebianDog]

Dude...

- Everyone receives government handouts from oil revenues
- Alcoholism is rampant
- Rape is one of the highest rates in the U.S.
- Palin is the Governor

WTF did you expect?

Re:The Real Surprise is in Alaska

[chihowa]

And regardless of their intent, over 106,000 Alaskans still put down a vote for a convicted criminal. The extreme partisanship required to do that is beyond comprehension.

His wasn't just convicted of any old crime, either. It's a corruption conviction relating to his service in the position he was re-elected to.

Electing someone convicted of a crime unrelated to their office is one thing, but electing someone convicted of corruption in that office is an entirely different beast.

Re:The Real Surprise is in Alaska

[PeeAitchPee]

I was surprised too, because the strongholds of the other party have NEVER blindly reelected any convicted criminals, racists, or blatantly corrupt assholes. Oh, wait.

Oh goshdarnit! That other guy git in

[91degrees]

What's his name again? Sadam Hussain Obama Bin Laden or something. Now if that ain't a Muslim name I don't know what is. America is meant to be a Christian country. It says so right there in the First Amendment, and it was that way back when we were founded by Jey-sus in 0AD. And now he's goin' to make an Oath on the Koran, change us all into Muslims and move the US to the middle east and we'll all have to join Al Quaeda and blow ourselves up. I don't know what I'm gonna do.

Re:United States Socialist Republic

[falcon5768]

They are laughing at the fact the republicans THOUGHT he was. There was nothing socialist he was proposing that we are not already doing, and nearly half our friends we terms a "democracy" are truthfully socialist democracies. The socialist claim was truly one of the STUPIDEST moves the neocons could have pulled, especially when their darling base polarizing vise prez nominee actually PRACTICED socialism by redirecting oil drilling profits to state residence.

Congratulations from Europe

[Ztream]

I think I'm actually proud of you, America. Not just for electing Obama over McCain; but for producing *two* sensible candidates and then choosing the one who makes history. I'm glad I stayed up to watch it live.

Re:Congratulations from Europe

[Tenek]

Two for four ain't bad indeed.

Anyone know about the rest of the US?

[Nazlfrag]

Did Puerto Rico vote? American Samoa? Marshall islanders? You crazy cats have taxation without representation, have colonies without a vote. I recall that sort of nonsense stirred a revolution once before...

Re:Anyone know about the rest of the US?

[Anonymous Coward]

they actualy dont pay taxes there.

Re:Anyone know about the rest of the US?

[nycguy]

Residents of Puerto Rico, American Samoa and the Marshall Islands do not pay federal income tax. They do pay Social Security and Medicare taxes but they are also eligible for benefits from those programs. To have representation in Congress (relevant to "taxation without representation"), those territories would need to petition for statehood. Puerto Rico, in particular, has consistently voted not to do so.

Obligitory Simpsons

[Rik Sweeney]

Kent Brockman: I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply doesn't work.

Re:Two words

[Jedi Alec]

I have never seen such hysteria for a candidate in my life. With the type of overwrought messianic expectations that he faces, there is no way to go for Obama but down.

I'm not saying that he deserves it, but when these pie-in-the-sky types realize that he is human like the rest, and that he won't be able to wipe the tear from every eye, his approval rating will take a serious hit.

As far as a good part of the rest of the world...we don't think you elected a messiah. We're just glad you didn't elect the 3rd incarnation of the fucking antichrist.

Re:question

[hansamurai]

24

Like Jack Bauer.

Democrats and Republicans represent the same ideal

[betterunixthanunix]

A person who lived through the collapse of the soviet union once pointed out that in America, the only relevant political parties are the Capitalist party and the Capitalist party. Democrats and Republicans disagree on a handful of very minor issues, despite all the media trumpeting about one being "left" and one being "right." The Democrats will still pass legislation that favours big businesses, just a different group of businesses. No president since the 1950s has served an entire term without engaging America in some foreign conflict. The use of signals intelligence operations to spy on foreign businesses and pass along their trade secrets to US businesses has occurred during both the Clinton and Bush administrations, and during both Democrat and Republican control of Congress.

If America wanted serious change, change that was not just superficial, then one of the third party candidates would have one.

At the very least, it is a good thing that the neoconservative movement appears to have weakened a bit in this election. Do not confuse neoconservative and Republican -- while most neocons are Republicans, most Republicans are not neoconservative and many Republicans found the neoconservatives to be embarrassing.

Re:All I can say now is...

[bigmouth_strikes]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's going to take a lot of hard work to undo the backward progress and bad decisions that the Bush gov't lied and cheated the American people into. But it's a serious job for grown-ups who are not afraid let reason and long-term strategy prevail, instead of fighting fire with fire 'til the house is burnt down. Luckily, there will soon be a responsible adult in the White House.

Re:Two words

[dbIII]

Why? Is Obama really that much better than McCain? Would McCain have been worse than Bush?

No, however you would have had to put up with a lot of the status quo since even the most honest of Republicans would find it difficult to remove the most corrupt or incompetant entrenched in various nooks and crannies. The same could apply if there had been a corrupt Democrat administration but it would take a few years with nobody really watching before that could happen while some of the current crooks have should have rap sheets dating back to Nixon's administration.

One thing I've noticed from being in a place that had a far more corrupt government is that the replacements make an effort to try to be squeaky clean even if is against their nature. Also the Republicans now have a chance to purge criminal elements which they would not have if they had won, so I think it's better for them and the USA than if they had won. The bizzare shift to Monarchy within the Republican party and the rest of the odd neocon agenda has hopefully been laid to rest with this election if it wasn't already.

Didn't The Who say it best?

[negative3]

Come meet the new boss, same as the old boss... I'd prefer neither party have clear control of the legislative branch, then they would have to work together and couldn't push their own agenda through. Neither side has the right or total answer to any problem.

Re:Prediction

[Spritzer]

Here's one to add to your count. My biggest fear (even as a right-leaning centrist) is that some redneck is going to assassinate Obama. While I'd personally rather see Biden in office the ramifications of our first black President being assassinated would rip this country to shreds. I love my redneck neighbors, but I pray that they all have enough sense to wait 4 years and vote the idiot out.

Re:Two words

[Bloodoflethe]

I think the thank god was in reference to the no recount. I could be wrong, but that is what my 'Thank God' reaction was aimed at.

I was worried, even after they called it

[LordKronos]

At the time they called Obama as the president, there was still a lot to be counted. Between the 11 PM call and when I went to bed at 12:30, the entire time all of Obama's important leads were shrinking. 10%...8%...6%...5%, some even down to 2%-3%. I was honestly worried about a premature call, and wondering what would happen if I woke up and things had flipped. McCain: "yeah....ummmm....about that concession..."

Re:Two words

[MMC Monster]

Absolutely. Let's give the guy some room to see what a Democratic president with Democratic congress can do for four years.

There's always the '12 elections. If things are still bad then, the Republicans will have a (relatively) easy time.

This is an excellent day

[bheer]

FWIW, my 2c are that the better candidate won. But this is not a landslide by any means -- despite massive turnout, 47% chose McCain. It's great that Obama acknowledged these people and and said he's going to be their president, too. Quite a change from the divisiveness of the past.

Science-fiction writer John Scalzi had an excellent reality check about an Obama administration I urge all Obama supporters to read. If you're realistic about the man, great. If you're hoping for the moon -- well, this might just save you a lot of disappointment later.

Re:Two words

[Ztream]

Funny, I was watching the same speech, and I thought he went out of his way to stress that this goes beyond the campaign. I guess I'm just retarded.

Regarding his concrete plans, he's a *politician*. None of the candidates have provided much in the way of concrete plans, much to my frustration. There is no doubt that Obama can fail to live up expectations -- hell, I don't see how he *can* -- but that goes for any new president, and America wouldn't have a separate presidential election if it was all about the issues as opposed to the person.

This will certainly be interesting.

Re:Two words

[kosty]

Well, I don't wanna' get all "tit-for-tat" here with that "love it or leave it" crap *I've* had to listen to for far too long. Oh, wait. Yes I do.

Think GW Bu$h ever DREAMED he'd be THIS much of a uniter? Mwahahahahahahahaha!

Did you hear his speech?

[spectrokid]

Did you listen to the same speech as I did? Of course he thanked his campaign team, these people just busted their ass for the last 6 months. But he also clearly pointed out the problems lying ahead. What did you want him to say? Make a list of all his plans again? A majority of americans just APPROVED those plans! He clearly stated that this election by itself did not constitute change, that the promessed change was only now starting and would not be possible without the hard work of all americans.

Re:question

[Anonymous Coward]

Not trolling, but obviously attempting to perpetuate the stereotype of freedom-minded people as "immature" and "adolescent". Says more about you than it does the libertarian.

Re:Birth pangs of our great socialism

[techsoldaten]

Go slouch towards Gommorah somewhere else. Just because you think you are right doesn't mean other people are not. I mean, jeez, it's going to take 20 years to clean up after W before anyone could even talk about really changing society in any meaningful way.

Calling Obama a socialist after 8 years of Bush growing the government, giving titanic bailout packages to Wall Street, keeping companies alive on corporate welfare, propping up economic figures by ignoring the excesses of an industry, giving companies incentives to send jobs overseas, fighting wars that benefit no one, and all the other garbage that has been kicked up since 2000 is plain nuts. We are emerging from a form of socialism directed solely at the top 1% of Americans and it is time to move on.

M

Re:Two words

[bigstrat2003]

Well, there was no chance of that either way. We did, however, elect a bad president... but we were going to do that no matter what.

Obama, contrary to popular belief, is yet another power-hungry, self-serving politician. He proved this to anyone who pays attention when he cast his vote for telecom immunity (in other words: you can break the law, as long as the president says it's OK to do so). With a loose regard for the law like he showed he has, I do not look forward to seeing what new abuses of presidential power this man will perpetrate.

It's funny, though... Obama is quite possibly the biggest con man I've ever seen. I have great admiration for his skills at deceiving people, even as I'm disgusted with my fellow countrymen for being taken in by a swindler so easily. Truly an exemplary politician, even if he is a bad statesman.

Re:W00t! Welfare for all!

[Anonymous Coward]

Newsflash: Obama voted for all of that in the Senate.

Re:A Good Day

[TheCrazyMonkey]

Honestly I could care less what whether our next president is white or black. I tend to be more concerned with things that will actually effect the future of myself and the country. What does concern me is people voting for a president based on the color of his skin. They have word for that, it's called racism.

Re:Two words

[Zero__Kelvin]

Why would we begin the prayer after it has been answered?

As an Englishman

[cloakable]

Let me say this:

THANK FUCK.

Re:Say goodbye to your rights

[DragonTHC]

Typical neoconservative.

In case you haven't noticed, the fruits were already redistributed, from our wallets to a vault owned by some millionaire-turned-billionaire.

People like you always try to act like democrats want to take what you've earned and give it to poor people.

You're wrong and you probably will never realize it. They want to take from the obscenely rich and give it to poor people.

It's pretty fair to say that there's nothing a man can do, who earns a few million dollars a year, to justify that as his fair share. What can a man do to rightfully earn that much over a man who works harder and longer that earns peanuts? Let's not discuss education or intelligence. They don't matter here. I want to know how you, who probably doesn't even make $100k a year can stick up for people who have systematically pillaged both the American Treasury and picked the pockets of Americans for over a generation.

Re:W00t! Welfare for all!

[techsoldaten]

No joke. Plus the suspension of basic civil rights, undercutting the posse comitatus act, widespread government surveilance of civilians, launching wars that benefit noone. GOP socialism is the worst kind of socialism anyone could ever think of.

M

Re:Two words

[Windows_NT]

With all respect,
Your going to eat those words in a year.
Good bye George, and god bless barrack!

Re:Two words

[bheer]

McCain isn't the antichrist. Not by a long shot. And I said this as an Obama supporter. He's served this country (more honorably than many senators) for a long time.

When will you get it into your head that your your political opponent isn't automatically evil incarnate? That may work for vi-vs-emacs and Apple-vs-MS wars on /., but it's just juvenile in the real world.

Re:Two words

[bonehead]

Where have you been the past 8 years?

You think things were bad under Bush?

You ain't seen nothing yet.

Re:W00t! Welfare for all!

[grub]

Hard work is penalized, and laziness will be rewarded.

For hard working citizens such as yourself this cloud has a silver lining!

Take the next 4 years off, don't work, drink beer all day. You'll be better off than if you had a job! That is, if you really believe what you just wrote.

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Agreed.

[Anonymous Coward]

I voted for Barr - even though I was rooting for Obama.

Why didn't I vote for Obama? Because I'm so disgusted with BOTH the Democratic and Republican parties that I,at least, wanted to send a message that, regardless of their candidate, I do not approve of their policies and direction.

As far as I'm concerned, the Bill of Rights, all of them, are cast in stone. We can't pick and choose which ones to keep.

Every square millimeter of the US is a Free Speech Zone.

We have the right to bare arms. PERIOD. That means if I want a magazine that holds 50+ rounds, I can have it. If I want a machine gun, so be it. Handgun -you bet - and NO license if I want to carry.

There is a separation between church and state. Religion has no business in government.

Re:Agreed.

[rugatero]

We have the right to bare arms. I don't think anyone is trying to infringe on your right to wear a short-sleeved shirt.

Re:Agreed.

[BobMcD]

I was going to read your entire post, but got stuck right here:

When guns weren't something that could lead to a massacre of innocent people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_events_named_massacres

Ancient Greece, dude. Ancient Fucking Greece.

This is what people mean when they say 'guns dont kill people, people do'...

You may have a valid point, or you may not, I didn't read it. But I suggest you try and grasp that people have killed one another in droves since they realized they had the power to do so. Wholesale slaughter isn't some magical 20th century invention.

Re:Two words

[cayenne8]

"Let's hope"

Ok...he won.

Now...honestly, what do you think is really going to change?

Do you think he'll get the Dems to undo the Patriot Act?

Do you think he'll get to the bottom of and stop the Wiretaps on US Citizens?

Do you think he'll have us 100% out of Iraq in the next week? Month? Year? Decade?

Will he magically fix the economy? If so, how long? What exactly is he going to do?

Will he walk on water?

Ok...the last one was a joke, but, seriously, everyone that seems to be treating his election as the 'second coming', what exactly do you think has changed, or what to you see as the time table to be looking for all this "change"?

OK so what does Change really mean?

[sparhawktn]

Will change mean that I am not called a racist if I disagree with Obama?

Will change mean that slavery is now something that can finally be put to bed 145 years after it ended?

Will change mean that people can have a rabid hatred of Obama as people had of Bush and still be free?

Will change mean that people with little money will have more money?

With change my conservative values will that make me a target of hate?

Will change mean the majority be sensitive to my beliefs and values?

Will change mean nothing has really changed but people are now happy Europe is not mad at us any more?

Will change mean that our troops will be not be forgotten.

Will change mean that government will not take over our 401k, healthcare, car payments, house payments, freedom?

Will change mean that Obama will campaign for change in 2012?

Change is all well and good but what does change mean. It can mean a lot of things to a lot of people but now the work has to begin words are not enough by any person any where. While people disagree with any election we still have the only country in the world that can transition peaceably from power to power every 4 years if need be. We still have a document that no other country in the world dares to implement because it gives the freedom to the people and not those that run the government.

We are free because we choose so do not let anyone of any party take any of that freedom in the name of change. Support the good and denounce the bad with out fear of retaliation or hate.



We are free because we are American's we are American's because we are free.

You just made his point

[Quila]

The Patriot Act was passed by a Republican Congress and signed by a Republican president.

Re:You just made his point

[CrimsonAvenger]

98 Senators voted for the Patriot Act. Only one voted against. The Republicans weren't alone in passing it.

357 Representatives voted for the Patriot Act. Only 55 voted against. Again, the Republicans weren't alone in passing it.

Note that the political climate of the time was such that if the Democrats had controlled both houses of Congress, odds are it would have been passed by similar majorities.

Re:Two words

[Veretax]

McCain would tax the Poor?? really? If you really believe that then McCain's campaign has failed even worse than I'd imagined. Not once has he said he'd raise taxes on the Poor. Good Grief!

As an european...

[Nuffsaid]

As a male white Italian with no involvement into USA elections, I have to admit that this morning I cried and laughed hearing what just happened in a big nation far far away. This changes everything. The politics of fear will end. Black people won't be seen "out of place" in any place from now on. Things won't go worse all the time, like last years made us think! A big thank you to the US people. This affects us all.

Re:As an european...

[mk2mark]

Yea and windows 7 won't be bloated, expensive and unreliable.

Not that that's what I'm saying, but I don't think speculation and newfounded faith in utopian America is going to make it happen.

Re:As an european...

[Cytotoxic]

As a male white Italian with no involvement .... Black people won't be seen "out of place" in any place from now on.

Thank you for that... it is interesting to see how perception can become reality. As a white american man who spent the 80's and 90's with my (now ex) african-american wife, I can tell you that there have not been many places where black people are seen as out of place in the USA in that time. In fact, during our time together we never once had white people make us feel unwelcome, despite living in and travelling throughout the southern US, frequenting redneck bars and backwoods haunts. The only places we were ever made to feel unwelcome were in the minority community, and that was relatively rare. For the most part white America grew up and moved on during the seventies, put those attitudes behind us in the 80's and long before now became mostly color-blind. Hopefully this election will help those who are still clinging to old prejudices and fears let go and grow up.

Re:As an european...

[goldspider]

"This changes everything. The politics of fear will end. Black people won't be seen 'out of place' in any place from now on."

You might think so, but I assure you that the industry of racial divisiveness is still alive and well. This won't make the Jesse Jacksons or Al Sharptons go away. Just wait for the reaction when people start criticizing President Obama.

Re:Two words

[Zero__Kelvin]

"Why? Is Obama really that much better than McCain?"

Karma preserve man!

"I just saw two complete liars campaigning. "

Right. It is called an election; that is the definition.

Re:Thank God

[jez9999]

Hmm, I thought cow orkers tended toward the Republicans more?

Re:Two words

[deniable]

More importantly, a vote for McCain was a vote for Rove and friends. Rewarding them with another four years would have been interesting in a Chinese curse kind of way.

History, sacrifice, hope and gaps

[gsn]

I'm not American and couldn't vote but I've spent all my adult life here and the last eight years have affected my life in much the same ways it affected yours. I'm very glad there were record turnouts, whoever you voted for.

I think its good to recognize this as a historic and important moment. I stayed up all night working and listening to the coverage. It is a night I'll remember and I'm admittedly quite happy. Certainly, there is hope, a word I haven't heard much off since 2001. I'm very glad that he acknowledged that the real work lies ahead and that it will take a spirit of service and sacrifice and both of them talked about coming together and bridging the gaps that have cut this nation.

Bridging gaps is a hugely critical message today. There is an interesting discordant note between all the commentators speaking about how this marks the end of slavery and the fruition of the civil rights movement and the change of a generation, and what looks like a yes vote on Proposition 8 in California. When the dust has settled, there is going to be much talk about the way different demographics voted and the gaps that represents. I hope it will not take 40 years for all of us to recognize that in the end, beyond nationality, skin colour, sexual orientation, religious beliefs or background, we are all just human beings.

Re:Prediction

[CrazedWalrus]

I think most "Rednecks" are a lot smarter and better tempered than you give them credit for. Unfortunately, it only takes one loony to commit such an act, but then we shouldn't call him a Redneck. We would call him a "loony," "criminal," or "murderer."

Re:Two words

[Missing_dc]

Actually, we may have just elected the 3rd incarnation of the antichrist.
(first 2 being Napoleon and Hitler)
That is of course if Maitreya is not the antichrist.

It all depends on if we are the new Babylon or if Iraq is the new incarnation of Babylon. According to most conjecture on the timeline of this subject, we should know by fall of next year if Obama is the latest incarnation of the antichrist. Lets see if he ends up with control of the world.

Re:God didn't

[Meneth]

And if people were truely sick of being treated like shit, there would be 3rd party candidates in the house and senate, enough of them were up for election!

There won't be any third parties in the US until they start having proportional elections.

According to the latest numbers, Obama got 68% of the electors, but only 52% of the votes. That's a good marker of the error in the current Plurality voting system.

It's in the House of Representatives we might see the first real change, if third parties gain enough votes to control the balance of power.

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Re:Two words

[michrech]

Sounds like you've been watching Fox "News". Shortly after Obama made his speech last night, I tuned in to see what they were saying, and pretty much heard *exactly* what you just typed.

No, he's not going to do any of those things in the first week, month, or most likely even first year he's in office. The shit Bush & Co. has done will take far longer to unravel, but he can start the process.

Quit being so damned bitter and actually start helping your fellow countrymen instead of being an asshole because your guy didn't win.

The thing that absolutely amazes me...

[The Ultimate Fartkno]

...is the international reaction to Obama's win. I knew that the reputation of America and Americans had been battered over the past few years, but I never suspected that it was as bad as it was. I watched the results last night, said a little "huzzah!" when Obama was declared, listened as McCain gave a warm, dignified, and gentlemanly concession speech, and then went to bed thinking I'd seen it all. I woke up at about 4:45 this morning and I've been flipping between news stations ever since. I got a little emotional last night during the speeches, but I'm absolutely devastated by the number of non-Americans who are dancing in the streets over Obama's win. I never thought I'd see video of a few hundred Chinese people jumping around and chanting "Obama! Obama!" A reporter in France walked up to a woman and simply said "Obama?" Her face lit up and she simply said "C'est formidable!" Kenyans are throwing feasts in his honor. Arab and Persian states are happy. Israel is happy. Pakistan is happy. Australians are losing their damned minds over it. Russia is... well, they're kinda grumpy, but they're not having a good year. And all morning I've been hitting my usual haunts (/., Fark, CNN, BBC, & more) and I keep seeing messages posted by people from a zillion different countries congratulating us and thanking us for "making the right choice." Before you ask, yes I voted for him, no, I don't think he's the messiah, and yes, I'm still pissed at him for breaking his promise over campaign financing. But even with all that, I still can't shake the feeling that something *seriously* important happened last night. I'm almost 40, so I've seen a few elections, but never in my life have I seen or felt the kind of excitement that's in the air right now. It seems like all sorts of barriers have just... vanished. Racial, political, international, interpersonal, it just all seems different now. I know that part of it is just the morning-after buzz of having your candidate win, but there's something special about having a friend email you and tell you how they got hugged twice in Germany while wearing an Obama t-shirt and walking to the bakery on the corner, then reading a post that says "The Netherlands are happy for you!" The world stood up and took notice of us this morning. I hope he doesn't let us down.

Thus endeth my waxing philosophical.

Re:The thing that absolutely amazes me...

[Uberbah]

and yes, I'm still pissed at him for breaking his promise over campaign financing.

Then you're pissed over nothing, as he never promised to take public financing. He promised he'd be willing to work on it with the Republican candidate - big difference. If you need to hold something against him, there's always his FISA flip flop.

Re:The thing that absolutely amazes me...

[trawg]

It's great, but at the same time I think the reasons behind it are sort of sad. The rest of the world doesn't want to see the US invading other countries for bullshit reasons, pissing away its potential for greatness in a never-ending, pointless, money-wasting war on terror that is unpopular both at home and internationally.

We're also sad about seeing attacks on the US, 9/11, American troops dying overseas, and the constant and growing hatred of the US not just amongst the Middle East but amongst the population of other "allied" nations.

International people are interested not really for the well-being of the USA and the well-being of Americans - but because the USA is one of the few countries that can royally fuck things up for a lot of people everywhere else around the world.

The thing that saddens and frustrates me more than anything else is the amazing achievements that have come from the USA - things like being the first country to put a man on the moon. I can't help but wonder where humanity might be if the last 8 years had gone a different way and all those trillions of dollars had been pumped into something other than a black hole. I'm sure the citizens of the USA would be better off and I feel that the rest of the planet would be as well.

I would have voted for Obama if I was a US citizen and I'm glad he got in. Like most of the non-US people I have hope for the first time since 9/11 that things might just have a small chance of getting better.

Re:The thing that absolutely amazes me...

[steelfood]

Obama is half black (African-Kenyan) and half white (European-Irish/English). His father was a Muslim and later atheist, his mother agnostic Christian and maybe atheist.

Sorry, but the Arabs can't take any credit for him.

I for one...

[Thelasko]

welcome our new overlord.

Re:Two words

[Mr. Underbridge]

As far as a good part of the rest of the world...we don't think you elected a messiah. We're just glad you didn't elect the 3rd incarnation of the fucking antichrist.

Dumbest thing I've read today and that applies double for whoever modded that informative/insightful. I didn't vote for McCain. I don't think he'd make as good an executive as he does a Senator, and if I'm being honest, I don't think he's as sharp mentally as he used to be.

But his record is really that of a centrist, who works with people across party lines. He's done a lot to reform campaign finance (which ironically didn't help him, since his opponent decided rules are for other people). Relating McCain to the "antichrist" somehow is representative of the blind, untargeted ultra-liberal rage that seems to have consumed quite a few people these days. Yes, Bush is a terrible president. But to assume that he and McCain are the same man, let alone to come to the conclusion that he's representative of Satan himself, requires one to be drinking directly from the Obama campaign Kool-Aid tap.

In other words, stop letting other people write your cue cards for you, think for yourself.

Re:Two words

[Andy Dodd]

"We're just glad you didn't elect the 3rd incarnation of the fucking antichrist."

Even though I voted Obama and am VERY glad he won, I think that's overly harsh on McCain. Every impression I got was that he was more intelligent and sane than the Texas Village Idiot.

The problem is that McCain and Palin ran on a platform that catered to the same uneducated religious nutjobs that Bush appealed to. That platform backfired on them, when their "This is Real America" small-town speeches pissed off the (according to them) educated "Fake Americans" living in suburbs and cities. I may live in a small town now, but I grew up in the suburbs and many of their speeches implied that I was not a "Real American", which I found quite insulting.

Signed,
"Fake American" (aka educated ex-suburban-resident)

Let me be the first to day that, I for one...

[alcmaeon]

...welcome our new black, arab, muslim, atheist, socialist, communist, not-born-in-america, terrorist, redistributionist-in-chief overlord.

LOL!

Seriously, from all of us in fake America to all of you in real America, thanks for the laughs...and the winks. Let's not forget the winks.

Go Obama!

Re:Let me be the first to day that, I for one...

[M-RES]

Heh, you forgot to add a line about his old pastor (in his Arab Christian Muslim Terrorist Churchmosque)... "God Damn America!" hehehe

Re:Two words

[alderion]

just because you heard it on fox news doesn't mean it's incorrect. the gp is entirely correct. i don't think anything will change in washington. that said, i hope i'm wrong.

Re:Two words

[Vexorian]

Why? Is Obama really that much better than McCain? Would McCain have been worse than Bush?

Yes

Re:Two words

[alcmaeon]

I have never seen such hysteria for a candidate in my life. With the type of overwrought messianic expectations that he faces, there is no way to go for Obama but down.

I take it you were born after the 1984 Reagan-Mondale election.

Re:Two words

[Anonymous Coward]

just because you heard it on fox news doesn't mean it's incorrect.

Yes, it does.

Re:Two words

[mcneely.mike]

I think that the USA is the next Britain and that the next "SUPER POWER" is going to be China.
And Microsoft is going to be the next IBM.
And that Linux is going to be the next Microsoft... done the correct way of course.
And Barack Obama will be the next Kim Campbell. (Yes, you will have to probably google her if you are not Canadian.)

Re:Two words

[Hognoxious]

I doubt he's likely to make things worse - and for most people, that's enough on its own. Damning with faint praise, or just a reflection of how bad King George Bush II was? I heard dubya was 6 points lower in the approval ratings than Nixon was - after he was indicted.

Re:Two words

[v1]

My favorite thing to hear on Fox was a discussion going on to do with the state of the economy, and how "we are only now seeing the full effects of the Clinton presidency". I about fell out of my chair.

I do realize that change cannot be immediate, but there are limits. Considering how long we've had a Bush for president, continuing to blame the past just flies in the face of all reason.

Now it still concerns me to stand by and watch just how much more damage the Lame Duck can do before the clean-up crew moves in.

I think....

[tkrotchko]

Based on the "hopes" of a lot of people, the poor guy is going to disappoint a lot of people.

His supporters who think he'll change everything.

His detractors who think he'll change everything.

Take a look at a list of presidents for the past 40 years and you'll see no one president fundamentally changes everything. Can't be done. A president doesn't have that sort of power.

As I tell everyone, whoever gets elected you hope he/she does well for our country, because then everyone wins.

Re:I think....

[mopower70]

He's black. He's President. He's already changed everything.

Re:I think....

[Killjoy_NL]

Not just that, but look at the international effect it has had already?
People are positive about the US again, that can only help you guys over there.

(Dutchman here)

Re:I think....

[mrjohnson]

He ran his campaign based on a large part by individual donations over the Internet. It's a remarkable thing -- Obama doesn't owe any favors to companies or even to his own party.

He knows he can simply raise any money he needs on his own. That's why all of his speeches are "we", "our" and he's talking about "you" all the time. He owes the people, not the interests.

Of all of our modern presidents, he does have the best hope of actually accomplishing change.

Re:I think....

[Viking Coder]

Advocating on behalf of a group that has lower than average educational achievement, lifetime salaries, and for that matter life expectancy, is not racism.

Heralding the achievements of a symbolic leader of that group, and hoping that it has a motivational impact on the rest of the group, is also not racist.

Re:I think....

[Skrynesaver]

Indeed, while remarks about villages missing their idiot may have been partisan, the civilised world was horrified with the re-election of Bush, and with the (in my opinion foolish) exception of Britain you lost all international co-operation.

May I be among the first to welcome you back from the neo-con wasteland and hope that we can all proceed from where Clinton left off, in a spirit of international co-operation
(Irishman here)

Re:I think....

[nschubach]

So you're telling me that Racism is blind as long as the race that is being highlighted makes less money? Or do you still blame the poor education system on a cranky white guy who hates blacks and not the neighborhood full of racist blacks who scare out white teachers by threatening their life and claiming that they are trying to take over the neighborhood? Are you telling me that if an accomplished white doctor decided to live in a predominately black neighborhood and work at the hospital there, that he'd feel safe walking home at night?

I think you have a skewed view on what racism is. It has no gray areas. It doesn't only apply to the majority of a country. It applies to everyone. Just because black America has pushed out everything in the name of "keeping their culture" (or whatever other excuses are used) doesn't make it right because they are the minority.

There should be no continuation of race based programs, organizations, or policies. In order to remove racism, you have to treat everyone the same and stop promoting based on race alone. Racism will not vanish overnight, but it will vanish over time.

Re:I think....

[StreetStealth]

Obama doesn't owe any favors to companies or even to his own party.

Let's not be too hasty here: It's not like Obama didn't also receive major support from industry donors. So while we shouldn't discount that part of this victory is owed to our corporate overlords, we still, as you say, shouldn't discount that part is due to the folks in your neighborhood.

Money talks; let's hope the unprecedented small donations from individuals this time talked loudly enough.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

Re:Two words

[Smidge204]

So you honestly believe that the only reason so many people voted fro him was race? How sad.

It may also surprise you that, in retrospect, experience is not correlated to being a good president, and in fact some of the the most inexperienced presidents have been some of the most successful.

Compare it to the alternative McCain, who's political convictions apparently run so shallow that nearly all of them did a complete 180 in the four years since his last attempt at the oval office. His campaign was run by anyone but him and the choosing of Palin should shake even the most stalwart GOP supporter's confidence in that man's executive capabilities.

I'll take "confident and inspirational" over "schizophrenic and incompetent" any day, even if "experience" is lacking.
=Smidge=

Messiah

[Prien715]

With the world in financial crisis, two wars, and our civil liberties gone down the tubes, isn't it time for a charismatic leader with dreams rather than Joe from accounting?

When did we become so cynical that we believed nothing would change? I suppose there were people said the same thing when FDR was elected.

When did we become a nation of "that's too hard" instead of "yes we can"?

Re:Messiah

[Prien715]

Theodore Roosevelt, Abe Lincoln, FDR, George Washington.

Charisma on its own is a horrible ideal, just like pursuing wealth for its own sake. But democratic ideals combined with charisma is a great combination...just like a great job with great pay.

Re:Two words

[michrech]

Well, I wouldn't go as far as "anti-christ", however, he has turned out to be a terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE human being.

He only started slinging the mud as thickly as he did at Obama because Obama changed his mind on the town hall meetings? How old is McCain, 3?

He's talking about how we're going to "win the war in Iraq" if he becomes president? Perhaps the old man forgot that "the war" was won within a few days (weeks?) of us heading over there and that, now, we're an occupying force and no longer in war? Hell, he was in at *least* one war -- he should know you can't "win" an occupation.

He wanted to take 300 billion of the 700 billion and buy up a whole bunch of mortgages, re-negotiate them with lower interest rates and at the *current* value of the houses, and OBAMA is the socialist?!

My friends, that's only the beginning of what a terrible man McCain is. Combine him (with his poor health) with Sarah "We're on a mission from god in Iraq" Palin, and we'd have been fucked like we never imagined with Bush in office.

Is Obama perfect? No, he's human like the rest of us, but we're *FAR* better off with him than freakin' McCain/Palin...

Re:Two words

[Danathar]

Blaming Bush will only work for so long. If Voters took account of who was responsible for problems they would of tossed out Dems and Republicans in congress since the Democratic congress does hold some responsibility for their actions over the last two years, but the fact of the matter is that whomever is in the White house defines which party is responsible regardless of who is REALLY responsible.

Complaining about trains not running on time and management is FAR different than making the trains run on time and BEING management.

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Re:Prediction

[Hognoxious]

How many presidents have the Secret Service lost?

[foil hat mode] Accidentally, you mean? None. *taps nose* [/fhm]

Re:More than Two words

[AKAImBatman]

I hope the American people are smart enough to realize that Bush has buried them deeeep into the sh*t hole and that it will take a while to dig out of it.

I would have hoped that the American people would be smart enough to know that the crisis was a bi-partisan failure. From Credit Default Swaps passing the Senate as a rider 98-0, to the Bush Administration sounding the alarm in 2003 but being ignored, to Barney Frank famously telling the House Republicans that there is nothing wrong with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (and getting the backing of House Democrats), to the Republicans blocking the Fannie/Freddie bill once it reached the Senate, there is plenty of blame to spread around.

The truth is that the economic crisis happened because the financial markets found new ways to be greedy that no one understood. When the powers that be looked at the balance sheets, they'd see these odd financial instruments and mortgage-backed securities and just shrug and say, "We trust that you guys are educated and know what you're doing. Besides, it seems to be working." Only now that they're falling apart is it clear to everyone how underhanded and vile these various financial instruments were. It's all crystal clear in 20/20 hindsight.

That being said, McCain didn't help himself any by appointing Grahm and Fiorna as his advisors. Having the guy responsible for CDSes and the most hated CEO in history (at least, that hasn't been prosecuted) didn't exactly endear him to the American public.

Uninformed Sheep

[Anonymous Coward]

You're all nuts - America has just been given away!

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:

A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.ÃFrom that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence.

From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage;ÃFrom courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance;ÃFrom abundance to complacency; From complacency to apathy;ÃFrom apathy to dependence;ÃFrom dependence back into bondage.Ã

Seems we are now entering the "Dependence" Phase!

Re:Two words

[bheer]

> It is juvenile to think someone is evil because they use a
> different text editor.

Most folk on /. know it's juvenile. Those who accuse their political opponents of being evil usually don't. Hint: if your political opponent was truly evil, you probably wouldn't be around. Just ask some Zimbabweans who dared oppose Mugabe and were found in a ditch with their limbs torn off.

> It is just clarity to see evil in someone who will bring
> suffering to millions of people.

By that measure FDR would qualify as "evil" - his policies (including the US' insistence on the gold standard long after other nations abandoned it) extended the Depression for the US for at least 6 years and caused suffering to millions of people.

"Evil" is a loaded word. Sending people to Siberia to starve and die is evil. Sending jews and gays to bake in Polish camp ovens is evil.

If you think McCain is evil, you're deluded _and_ are cheapening the meaning of the word.

Re:Two words

[neoform]

You say that now, but once he walks on water and converts water into wine, you'll eat your works, oh yes.

Re:Two words

[jambox]

The hope is that he won't make things any worse. That, at least, makes me and many other people both inside and outside the US feel a lot safer. Perhaps he'll go the way of Jimmy Carter, but even if he does, at least we can be fairly sure there won't be another pointless war or needless reduction of civil liberties.

Re:Two words

[dkleinsc]

A coworker of mine described his vote very simply: "My fear with McCain is that he will do as he says. My fear with Obama is that he won't."

My response to those concerns is very simple: if he does half of what he says he'll do, that's still a big win.

Dear label-happy US-ians

[Don_dumb]

What's so bad about socialism?
Do you honestly think that voting in Obama is going to turn the states into some sort of Soviet Russia just because SOME of his plans are similar to those in Western Europe?

Wake up and realise that it doesn't matter what the idealogical principle is. All that matters is that you do the correct action for the situation. Sometimes that action is one that reflects libertarianism, sometimes conservatism, sometimes socialism, sometimes environmentalism, sometimes etc.

Your healthcare system NEEDS drastic change, perhaps socialism. No one is suggesting a British style NHS (certainly not the British). But quite simply, whether you are proud of you country or not (and when did that matter to anything) you should be ashamed of your healthcare system.

Regards

Person-bored-with-meaningless-election-fearmongering-but-honestly-impressed-with-the-US-people.

Re:Dear label-happy US-ians

[Don_dumb]

Thanks, it is just something that annoys me more lately than ever.

Essentially everyone tries to align themselves either side of an imaginary line. The idea that the principles that are the one side of that line are the thing to do always in every situation is just absurd.
It's the reason that the ideologies fall apart is because they can't cover everything. For instance, capitalism is 'right' or 'left', capitalism tells you that it is often better to make/employ foreign goods/staff which neither the right or left like. Both the right and left want to censor just different things but censorship is supposedly against the principles of both, one because of freedom the other liberty.

This is probably difficult to follow (we had some fireworks in Britain to celebrate and I have had a drink!) but that's because the whole polar opposites in an imaginary world is plain silly.
It gets a lot worse when people get 'loyal', to a concept.

Re:Two words

[bheer]

> Is Obama perfect? No, he's human like the rest of us, but
> we're *FAR* better off with him than freakin' McCain/Palin...

Oh yeah. I totally agree. But what gets me is this urge -- on both sides -- to call the other guy names: 'evil' or 'traitor' or 'communist' or 'socialist' or whatever. That really, really pisses me off.

I don't know about you, but I like some civility in my politics. Maybe I'm being naive, but then I voted for a guy who sort of shares my beliefs, and gave a classy shout-out to his losing opponent (and the Republican party, incidentally, by reminding them of what they once stood for) today.

Now if only more of his fans on Slashdot show the same civility ...

Re:Two words

[sycodon]

>Quit being so damned bitter and actually start helping your fellow countrymen instead of being an asshole because your guy didn't win

You mean like the Democrats did in 2000 and 2004?

Re:Two words

[ArcherB]

As a european citizen, thank USA!

I'm glad to hear you guys are excited. However, as I kept hearing all throughout this election cycle what other countries wanted, I had to wonder:

Do these countries want what's in America's best interest, or do they put the interest of their own countries above the USA's?

I sincerely hope it's the latter for your sake, but it does kinda put a value on opinions of those from other countries. Which makes me wonder, why would the press even bring it up?

Re:Congratulations on making a historic event happ

[dlaudel]

I think I was wandering around Vault 106, searching for any valuable items that may have been left behind by the survivors of Vault-Tec's experiments. Turns out, I didn't find anything particularly useful.

Re:Two words

[erroneus]

just because you heard it on fox news doesn't mean it's incorrect.

I just want to say again, Yes it does!

"Fox News" is not news. It is a commentator show. It is hard to even find a "news" show any longer. Everyone has to inject their opinions and interpretations of the carefully selected facts presented. That's commentating and editorializing -- not reporting and not news.

We need truth in labelling in everything, it seems, and not just on foods and drugs.

Re:More than Two words

[jcr]

I just hope that when he doesn't solve the economic crisis and "all of the worlds problems" that they don't blame him,

Obama has the good fortune that the crash didn't happen on his watch, so whatever he does to worsen the depression will be blamed on Bush by most people. They'll gloss over the fact that Obama voted in favor of Bush and Paulson's $850B robbery.

Hell, even today, most people think FDR ended the first great depression.

-jcr

Re:Two words

[Don_dumb]

I am sure people will point out that McCain!= Bush, and I will admit that McCain himself seems to be a man of integrity. However, much of the republican leadership is not. Palin serves as a perfect example.

As a European who has paid an interested attention to this election, it seems to me that the McCain who gave the concession speech and sat 'debating' next to John Stewart (essentially the enemy) was a man of integrity and I was impressed that he was willing to give his views to an audience that disagreed. Unfortunately the McCain on the campaign trail, the stupid negative namecalling (when Obama wasn't there), putting a 'below-Bush-intellect' Palin on the ticket, the whole 'small-towns' thing was not a man of integrity, it was a man who let too many Bush advisors on his team.
A shame because he would have had better chance without them.

Re:Two words

[MagusSlurpy]

Now it still concerns me to stand by and watch just how much more damage the Lame Duck can do before the clean-up crew moves in.

I have this image in my mind of Dubya, on January 19th, starting "police actions" in about 20 countries, and saying, "Let's see him fix this!"

Re:Two words

[ricosalomar]

For me, as a person born in the Southern US in the 1960s, this event is a very, very big deal. I've seen people do things that should never be done, and get away with it, and I never though that a black man could ever be president.

I'm very cynical about politics, but not about people. And for the first time in my life, I am truly proud to be an American.

No one expects miracles, but it feels good to put that chapter in our history at least partially to rest.

Re:Two words

[clone53421]

God? God had nothing to do with it. Thank Bush.

Re:Two words

[Mr. Mikey]

It's funny, though... Obama is quite possibly the biggest con man I've ever seen. I have great admiration for his skills at deceiving people, even as I'm disgusted with my fellow countrymen for being taken in by a swindler so easily. Truly an exemplary politician, even if he is a bad statesman.

Why would you be surprised? Weren't we taken by Clinton just as easily in the 90's?

Yeah, and look how bad the Clinton years were for this country...

Oh, wait...

Re:Two words

[jargon82]

A sadly unusual point of view. The president might be whom folks think of when presented with the term "US government" but he is not the US government. I know locally at least, almost all the incumbent members of congress went back for another term. Why is this, when approval ratings are so low?

Re:Two words

[level_headed_midwest]

Yeah, the "Bush is not my president" and "Somewhere in Texas a village lost its idiot" T-shirts and all of the /. posts about "KKKarl Rove stole the election" and "the chimp" things the Democrats did after 2000 and 2004 absolutely helped their fellow countrymen and weren't asshole things to do.

Re:Two words

[Jeff Hornby]

Actually these things can take a long time to happen. The best analysis of this crisis that I've seen so far made the case that the cause was de-regulation of banking under Reagan. It took a few years for the banks to start taking risks, it took a few more years for mass uptake of the products, etc, etc and finally 20-odd years later, we have the sub-prime crisis.

Re:Two words

[jcr]

Blaming Bush will only work for so long.

Want to bet?

Blaming Hoover worked for FDR's entire reign.

-jcr

Re:Two words

[Anonymous Coward]

You guys are missing one of the biggest things this election means. He may not be able to fix the economy, the war, the erosion of our rights, but it is a great first step to fixing something that has plagued our country since its inception. Him being elected will not fix racism but it is a big step in the right direction. I just hope it continues and we as Americans can come together and be just that. Americans, and not white or black America. If we can solve that large issue and move forward, then I believe all the other problems can be fixed in time as well.

Re:Two words

[WK2]

Does a person below the poverty level even pay income tax?

Yes.

Re:Two words

[Mantrid]

As opposed to the other completely neutral news organizations..right.

Would ****HAVE**** tossed

[Nicolas MONNET]

Also, :

- They were there for less than two years
- They are not in charge of the executive; by definition the legislative's impact is less imediate than the executive's
- Repugs fillibustered (or threatened to) almost everything the democrats tried to pass in the Senate
- Bush vetoed almost anything the democrats passed

Re:Would ****HAVE**** tossed

[Sj0]

That's just partisan bollocks. Extend the problem just far enough to blame Clinton? This crisis has a long history, I'd argue one stemming all the way back to the end of the Breton woods system under Nixon, followed by the irresponsible fiscal attitudes of Ford, Reagan and the two Bushes, accompanied by Carter and Clinton's attempts to force equal access to credit for people who shouldn't be able to afford credit.

We've had an attitude towards debt for decades that has been dangerous and irresponsible. This crisis is just some blowback from those policies.

Re:Would ****HAVE**** tossed

[jedidiah]

The Republicans have had much tighter party control. It's almost
resembled the communist party in some ways. That's why McCain
was in such a good position to market himself as a Maverick and
someone who could bring change in Washington despite being from
the ruling party.

The rank and file republican hasn't had any Cajones lately.

Re:Two words

[NewbieV]

Level Headed,

Does every wrong need to be met with another wrong?

Or can we draw a line, and say "enough - time to fix the problems and reclaim the American Dream for our children and ourselves"?

Re:Two words

[nomadic]

Honest question: Why is that so bad? I've heard people go on and on ad nauseam about how she's supposedly some horrible right-wing nutjob, but what exactly makes her so terrible or rather, what makes her worse that the others?

Even putting aside the religious fundamentalism, she is very similar to Bush in that she seems to believe one doesn't have to think about issues, but rather can just make gut decisions and govern from some sort of pseudofolksy wisdom. Bush thought, and still thinks, he's a natural leader who always makes the right decisions just because it's in his nature. I got that feeling from Palin's actions as well. I mean, at the beginning of the campaign she stated that she had never really thought about the Iraq war enough to come up with a viewpoint on it. That's frightening behavior from an adult American, let alone a candidate for a major office.

Re:Two words

[Jeff Hornby]

How about the collective interests of the entire world, not just the interests of any one single country?

Re:Two words

[CountBrass]

Given his lying, two-faced behaviour and U-turns when convenient during his election campaign it seems to me the USA has got it's own version of Tony Blair, just as the UK is getting rid of the original.

I suspect you've already seen his greatest achievement as president: to get elected.

Re:Two words

[Darby]

I know locally at least, almost all the incumbent members of congress went back for another term. Why is this, when approval ratings are so low?

Well, in the case of my district, the incumbent just got elected President ;-)

Re:More than Two words

[Koiu Lpoi]

Actually what alienated him from the american public was choosing an undeducated-appearing woman with no experience for a vice president. You have no idea how many times I heard "I'd vote for McCain, but he might die, and I do NOT want Palin as president."

Re:Two words

[Waffle Iron]

If we don't care who runs other countries, then why do we keep invading them?

Re:Two words

[Tenek]

It seems even the internationalist, socially leftist Obama supporters hold close to their hearts the proud American tradition of fuck all y'all. (Yeah, yeah, -1 Troll)

Re:Two words

[viridari]

I have never seen such hysteria for a candidate in my life. With the type of overwrought messianic expectations that he faces, there is no way to go for Obama but down.

I have.

I'm hesitant to elaborate, though, for fear of invoking Godwin's Law.

Obama's proposed "Civilian National Security Force" should wear brown shirts just to eliminate any ambiguity about where he got the idea from.

In short...

[xstonedogx]

http://www.economist.com/vote2008/

Re:Two words

[Tenek]

Not directly, no, but cutting taxes for the rich and running an even bigger deficit means that at some point you'll have to cut social programs to pay for it. That's the part where the poor pay for it.

Re:Two words

[mopower70]

Wow. Way to get the ball rolling. I'm sure your comment assuages all kinds of stereotypes about American arrogance.

Re:Two words

[ByOhTek]

She kept pushing vicious attacks against Obama based on loose associations with people of questionable or even despicable past (pasts which Obama also disapproved of). She stated that these casual or business associations made them Chummy.

She kept trying to put a wedge between the "intellectual crowd" and "normal people", never mind that the two groups have surprisingly little difference.

She was complaining about socialism, and 'spreading the wealth', in her state where they tax oil companies who drill there, and cut a check to all the citizens with that money.

She overall seemed way to hateful and spiteful. More so than any other candidate that I've seen. McCain made some of the most human and respectful gestures in the campaign, and Obama wasn't a slouch in the respect either. Biden seemed like a virtual non-entity, but Palin... seemed to have no sense to 'be nice' occasionally.

Re:Two words

[Anonymous Coward]

And it should put a stop to all those people who insist they can't succeed just because they're black, too. :)

Re:Two words

[AlanS2002]

As an internationalist, socially leftist Obama supporter who believes it is vital to repair our reputation overseas,and is beyond thrilled that Obama won, let me just say: Back off. We are still the most powerful country in the world, and we chose Obama because he was the best choice for us, not for you. We are not coming to you hat in hand asking for your forgiveness, and you have no ability to put us on "notice."

As someone from the rest of the world who has seen the consequences of you bunch electing a bad president. Yeah, you elected Obama for you. However think about someone else for a change.

The leader of the Socialist Party...

[istartedi]

The leader of the Socialist Party in the US was interviewed at some point during the 20th century. He was asked why he had quit running for President. His answer? The two major parties had embraced most of his ideals, so he thought it was no longer necessary. The story may or may not be true; but it certainly rings true. I always remember that when I was learning about these things in my teens, being taught that neither the USSR nor the US is pure in their ideology. There was some minor capitalism allowed in the USSR (private garden plots were allowed, in particular) but the real shocker was being taught that the US actually has a "mixed socialist-capitalist economy". To hear the S-word associated with us just seemed bizarre; but when you broke it down intellectually it was obviously true. We had social security, food stamps, etc. and this was even after the deregulation. Prior to that, the airlines, for example, were regulated down to what kind of food they could serve! I don't think anyone, even Obama, will take us back to that kind of regulation. People wouldn't put up with it, and at that point in history the Right had a point about excessive regulation--it's just that they ran too far with some things.

Re:Democrats and Republicans represent the same id

[cgenman]

I used to think that way, and helped with the Nader campaign in 2000. When Bush won, my thought was "This guy is going to be just like Clinton, or pretty close anyway."

Damn was I wrong. Apparently the Republican administration viewed every international issue as a problem to be solved by bomb-bomb-bombing. Clinton generally avoided international confligrations. I was furious when Clinton compromised down to Don't Ask - Don't Tell, but Bush's push for a homophobic constitution has that beat. Don't get me started on relative deficit levels, the Axis-of-evil and amazing bungling of international relations, and two major crisis which he had been warned about and failed to act upon. Also, having to jam shampoo into 3oz containers to get onto a plane is weak and pointless.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure any 3rd party candidate is right for now. A Libertarian "hands off" approach would simply facilitate the economy imploding further. A Green Party candidate would never be able to stomach the smoke stacks required to get us moving again. And things aren't yet bad enough to start setting fire to buildings.

Re:Two words

[BluenoseJake]

Being Canadian, We are too close, geographically and economically, to not want what is in your best interests, as they are generally intertwined and interdependent with our best interests. As our largest trading partner, if you are in economic trouble, the odds are, so are we. Now if we only had the balls and the foresight to know what is in OUR best interests, then we would be getting somewhere

Re:Two words

[ca111a]

McCain wanted to freeze min wage, cut taxes further for super riches and had nothing solid on reducing spending. Remember that debt number, which did not fit the screen? Could it be possible that inflation with frozen paycheck is actually making people more poor?

Re:Two words

[Killjoy_NL]

Cool, who is it? ;)

Re:Two words

[HangingChad]

That argument doesn't work anymore. Just because Fox News is a right wing tabloid doesn't mean they all have a bias. If the truth doesn't support your reality and the other news organizations won't bend their coverage to support your viewpoint, that doesn't make them biased.

The Fox News view of the world got crushed last night. It's an old, angry, failed philosophy and good riddance.

Re:Two words

[jebrew]

He did say

It is hard to even find a "news" show any longer

Re:Two words

[Ihmhi]

BBC?

(This is where someone says they don't like the BBC because they have a British slant.)

Re:Two words

[cayenne8]

"It's been pointed out that Clinton was the one who relaxed the regulation around banking that in part lead to the bad loans, etc...."

I assume he signed it into law...but, Clinton himself didn't relax regulations. That requires legistlation from congress.....the executive makes no laws, only congress.

That's part of why I don't see Obama doing all that much. He as president simply does not have the power to carry through with his promises along the campaign trail. The president makes NO laws.

Re:probably not break 175

[Hillgiant]

Wow. Racism, sexism, class warfare, and teen parenthood. All in two and a half paragraphs.

You are some kind of trolling GOD.

Re:Two words

[bigstrat2003]

It's not the same, but it shows that Obama doesn't respect the rule of law we hold dear. After 8 years of a president with similar views on the law, this should set off huge fucking warning bells in everyone's head.

Instead, people got so caught up in the rhetoric that they refuse to examine the man objectively, and apologize for, and try to rationalize, everything he does. He doesn't even need PR staff!

Re:Two words

[NewbieV]

Debate - open, honest, frank and passionate, is definitely something this nation was founded on.

I agree with you - there is absolutely nothing wrong with being partisan, and the tension between the two major parties is what produces progress for the country as a whole.

But mudslinging, blind partisanship and unfounded accusation are the wrongs I'm referring to. We can do better than that.

Re:Two words

[bigstrat2003]

Exactly. Obama and McCain, we *know* will keep taking us down our current path. They have both shown this by their actions in the past. Our only hope in this election was to elect someone who wasn't one of those two, but due to the stupidity of the American people with respect to third parties, it was never going to happen. We had a shot that someone good would make it through the primaries, and our shot failed. Ever since then, we the people were doomed.

Re:Two words

[muckracer]

> almost all the incumbent members of congress went back for another term.
> Why is this, when approval ratings are so low?

Because of the lack of viable 3rd, 4th, 5th etc. party candidates. By viable I don't meant the candidates themselves as they have at least as much to offer as anybody else on the ballots but the representation of them. The almost complete lack of coverage of them to the point of people being surprised to see other names they never heard of on the ballots besides the two D/R candidates. This is IMHO a true shame for the nation as a whole and the media in particular. I would welcome alternative views and more than two parties of importance since I believe that the views of well over 100 million voters can not possibly be properly represented by 2 parties.

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[LordKronos]

Yeah, but you are also forgetting one thing? How much HIGHER would Obama's percentages be among white voters had he not been black, or supposedly muslim? Tons of white folks voted AGAINST him for no reason but skin color or perceived religion

Furthermore, you can't necessarily say it's racism. Maybe black people just really felt that Obama identified with their needs? You can find that type of pattern in many other things. For instance, look how much higher Obama's support was in major urban/suburban areas? In Florida, he barely took the vote, but in Miami, Tampa and Orlando he dominated, . North Carolina is essentially a tie, but in Raleigh, Winston-Salem, and Charlotte he dominated. Does that mean that city folk are reverse racists against white? Or that country folk are racist against blacks?

Re:Two words

[Killjoy_NL]

"irrelevant if you are not a US citizen"

This is utter and utter bullcrap, since the US is a big influence on other countries, mine included, it is damn relevant.
So it IS in our interest to have you on notice, do NOT screw it up.

Re:Two words

[blamanj]

1) Assembly of God fundamentalist. No separation of church and state for them, they'd like the biblical version of sharia law.

2) Shows no sign of intellectual curiousity. Like Bush, she accused of being stupid, but isn't. Just ignorant. Ignorance can be cured, but I'd like a leader who curious enough to have looked into the kinds of questions she's been asked on her own.

Re:Two words

[orbdep]

Just as a heads up, those of us who have worked and studied world economy. it takes roughly 8-10 years to see the full effect of federal economic decisions in a capitalist environment. Yes, this is Clinton's mess. Yes Bush made it worse. and no Obama is not going to be able to clean it up in the near future, but the MARKET will stabilize and reach equilibrium. It will do so sooner the less we screw with it, which means we may have a bit of trouble yet ahead of us. This is the nature of a free market economy, there are mountains and valleys, some artificially imposed due to poor policy(most recently the Clinton started/bush worsened housing policy) so while Fox news may be crazy right wing, they are not inaccurate in this, 10 years later we are at the end of what Clinton did to the nation, and the middle of what bush has done respectively. The next decade could be troubling.

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[mrchaotica]

Until Obama won the Iowa caucus, all the black people were backing Hillary Clinton anyway. They're not racists, they're just Democrats.

Re:Congratulations on making a historic event happ

[ikkonoishi]

Yeah years from now someone needs to ask Obama what he was doing when Rogerborg was writing joystick handling code on a Ubuntu install running under VMware.

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[Zironic]

You could argue that a lot of the white voters voted for McCain because he's white.

Re:Two words

[Ihmhi]

More importantly, a vote for McCain was a vote for Rove and friends. Rewarding them with another four years would have been interesting in a Chinese curse kind of way.

Oh son of a bitch, I can't believe this shit. Now we're even outsourcing our curses?!

Re:Two words

[geminidomino]

So do, please, tell me how it could possibly be worse.

Teh GAZYORZ could GET MARREED!!!

Gods, I hate too many people in this country...

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[NixieBunny]

Try crunching those numbers by income instead of skin color and see what comes out.

Re:Two words

[Andr T.]

...but I grew up in the suburbs and many of their speeches implied that I was not a "Real American", which I found quite insulting.)

For me, Real Americans = aztecs, siouxies, etc. I'm South American and I can say I'm an American too, or at least I should be able to.

I think this is just another type of Ad-Hominem fallacy. Americans do something -> This shouldn't be done by Americans -> They are not "real" Americans.

Re:Two words

[TheSpoom]

I was actually watching the election coverage mostly on BBC World News last night. It was kinda refreshing. They were a lot more lighthearted than the American commentators, I found... except for that blowhard John Bolton, but they got rid of him eventually (a bit after he attacked one of the Beeb's own reporters). Two of them basically called it unofficially for Obama way early on ;^)

But yeah, they had Ted Koppel and John Bolton on there, as well as a few other Americans I believe... it can hardly be said that they were giving it a "British slant". The roundtable discussion method of presenting it was quite effective, I found.

Re:Two words

[tacarat]

Daily Show

Re:Two words

[ZigMonty]

LOL, you sound like yet another arrogant american to me. You want to repair America's reputation overseas and you rely on military threat as an argument? How very internationalist of you. Besides, with 2 failed wars and your supposed allies in eastern europe crushed by the Russians, who are you trying to kid? Do you honestly believe many countries are militarily afraid of the US at this point?

Here's a little hint for you, what do you think would happen to the US if the chinese flooded the market with all the US IOUs they've been stashing away? ICBMs and aircraft carriers are so 20th century. The real big red button these days is in Beijing and is labelled SELL (err... in chinese).

Having said that, i agree with you that you, as americans, elected an american president and you are justified in being offended by people in other countries not so subtly suggesting who you should vote for. I know i'd be angry if americans tried to interfere in Australian domestic politics like that.

Obama is the president elect of the United States, not the leader of the free world. America lost that title some time ago.

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[earlymon]

John McCain should have won the election.

If John McCain should have won the election, John McCain would have won the election.

My question would be, why didn't 95% of whites vote for Obama?

Anti-black racism in the white American community is ugly.

Re:Two words

[truthsearch]

True, but it's the people who perpetuate the problem over time that really help it happen. Those who bought into Reaganomics are the ones who kept the problem moving along. Others over time could have reversed the trend, but chose not to.

Re:Two words

[mrchaotica]

Why [do the incumbents get reelected], when approval ratings are so low?

Because their districts are gerrymandered such that their opponent (if they even have one) has no chance of winning.

For most districts, the real election happens in the primary.

Re:Two words

[tacarat]

These guys are Aryan nation kind of folks... I am dead serious here. Check out the number of women that are blond. You can't get away from it. Kind of scary actually...

Oh shit! 99% of my porn collection is white supremacist?

Re:Two words

[DrLang21]

No it won't. Obama is technically interracial. It should quell the interracial people from insisting they can't succeed, but it will do nothing for people insisting they can't succeed because they are black. You don't give people enough credit for finding ways to pass blame to things they are not in control of.

Re:More than Two words

[gambino21]

The truth is that the economic crisis happened because the financial markets found new ways to be greedy that no one understood.

It wasn't even a new way to be greedy, we just forgot what was learned in the great depression: that it's a bad idea to allow commercial banks to underwrite securities. There were many contributors that helped cause the current economic troubles, but certainly one of the most important was the gradual erosion of Glass-Steagal.

Re:Two words

[h4rm0ny]

Well then for the sake of ending racism, I hope you will all join me in not giving a shit what colour he is. The rhetoric that's been spewing out of some people's mouths when they can't talk for more than a minute about his actual stated policies is really starting to get nauseating. Some people are going to get one Hell of a shock from this.

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[erroneus]

"GET OVER IT."

And look at it this way. If you are sick of Anti-white racism in the African-American community, then I say you just won a tremendous victory!

The fact is, Obama is more or less the picture perfect image of a black man that white people don't fear. He maintains most all of his cultural identity and yet he is respectful, respectable, speaks well, is very intelligent and doesn't speak in rhymes. Obama is no dumb-ass.

And why is this a tremendous victory for you? Simple. What you likely hate the most is the rhetoric and the guilt and shame imposed on you because you were born a white male. Well guess what, now that we elected a black man for president, there is a LOT less they can say... there is a black man in the highest office. What else do they have to complain about that could be valid? When Obama fails to dish out the welfare, what are they going to say now? "Sell-out?" (maybe...)

From the definition police

[ODBOL]

through shear luck

I think you mean, "sheer luck."

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[bdonalds]

Ummm....African-Americans have been voting Democrat at about a 90% clip in recent history. Kerry and Gore are fairly white, if I recall correctly.

Re:Two words

[h4rm0ny]

(This is where someone says they don't like the BBC because they have a British slant.)

Actually, I live in Britain and have seen the BBC's impartiality take some serious damage over the last few years. Ever since the Hutton report and the subsequent purge of the upper ranks by the Labour government, it's been much less aggressive in its coverage. The Independent is good as a paper generally, but seem to have admitted a quite blatant bias toward the Democrats in the last few days. If you want real truth in your news (or at least as close as you'll get), you have to go those journalistic services that target the financial sector, e.g. paid services such as Stratfor. The public might get fed a line, but business leaders like to get told the truth.

Re:Two words

[ArcherB]

How about the collective interests of the entire world, not just the interests of any one single country?

That's all well and good, but the job of the US president is to be the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, not the world. If you want a world president, have your country's leader propose the idea to the UN or whoever. But for now, the POTUS's primary concern should be the well being of the USA. The rest of the world is important, but not first.

Re:Two words

[Orii]

I hope things will change and that we aren't doomed to repeat history, but I'm not very optimistic about it. When the Republicans got the presidency and Congress, they ended up going against their "small government" plans and voted in a ton of special-interest appropriations. It seems unlikely that in the same situation, the "larger government" party would do anything different.

I think Obama will try to curb excesses, but I have little doubt Congress will be pushing for them. Someone needs to tell them they were elected to make the best choices for the nation, not to get the most money for their state or the best boost for their reelection hopes.

McCain's concession speech

[brasscount]

I thought McCain was eloquent, conciliatory, and most importantly classy in his concession. The man showed a depth of character that I recalled from the 2000 elections, and that unfortunately had not really been displayed through this campaign season. Makes me wonder, if he had displayed the same insight and eloquence prior to last night, could he have won? (Disregarding Palin, party-line, and the other albatross he hung around his neck, of course.)

Re:More than Two words

[AKAImBatman]

Glass-Steagall (spell it right, people!) is a scapegoat. The situation is far more complex than that. Did weakening that bill have an impact? Absolutely. But it was only part of the problem. The real problem was the excessive greed and risk aversion in the financial market that lead to the creation of new financial instruments to sneakily make risk everyone else's problem. CDSes would have happened regardless of Glass-Steagall, and banks would have found alternative methods of making their financial risks someone else's problem.

There's a fairly good take on this issue here: http://www.bapcha.com/?p=53

The Glass-Steagall act probably should be reinstated, but moreover we should kick the greedy bastards out of Wall Street and replace them with the more conservative financial leaders who were slowly pushed out by the instant-gratification morons.

Re:Two words

[cgenman]

The federal budget is a fixed size, which currently has a massive deficit and a huge debt. McCain proposed funding drops of 10-20 million dollars, which is a drop in the bucket of our overall deficit. Additionally, with his comments towards Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan we can be pretty sure that we wouldn't be out of any of those expenditures any time soon, with the potential added fiscal bonus of an Iranian invasion.

Hence, when he wants to extend the temporary Bush tax cuts on the very rich, (which were initially proposed as a trickle-down stimulus package, and proved ineffective), he is effectively shifting the fixed-pie tax burden from the rich to the poor. Reducing tax rates doesn't magically reduce expenditures, it simply time-shifts the tax burden. In this case, permanently implementing Bush's tax cut for the wealthy simply ensures that they are going to shoulder less of the burden long-term, and that will fall upon the shoulders of the middle and lower classes.

So yes, beware of anyone who says they're going to lower taxes during a time of severe budget deficits, without telling you how. It's a shell game. Remember that 500 dollar "economic stimulus" check? That bill came out to more than 150 billion dollars, of which each of us will probably pay an extra 25 dollars in taxes per year *indefinitely* to pay interst on.

8 years ago, your personal share of the National Debt was 15,000 dollars. Now, it is up to 35,000 dollars. Assuming you have a wife and two kids, your family owes 140,000 dollars. Between 1,400 and 3,000 of your last year's federal taxes went JUST to servicing the debt.

Now is not the time to be pooping around with tax breaks on those who can pay in a shell game that shortchanges middle and lower classes. The fact that they didn't get us out of the 80's recession or the current one just proves again that trickle-down economics doesn't work.

Re:Two words

[tmosley]

I seem to remember something about the antichrist being a "false prophet", where people seem to think of Obama as a "messiah".

Now, I don't put much stock in religion, but Obama certainly fits the criteria for an antichrist much moreso than McCain (not to say that McRage isn't a crazy asshole, made bitter by his 2000 loss, who would lead us into Tehran guns ablazing).

In four years, everyone here is going to wish they had voted for Ron Paul. Obama can't fix the economy while maintaining the status quo, which is the corporate backed mandate he and any other mainstream candidate has. It'll just get worse and worse and worse, just like it did under FDR. They'll still call him a "great" president, I'm sure.

If Ron Paul had made it, he would have struck at the root of the issue, which is the stranglehold that the central bank has on this nation, and the problems that arise from their arrogant central planning.

Oh well. Maybe there will be a chance in 2012 for some REAL change.

Only in the US

[Nicopa]

The US is so right-wing-conservative that a self called "internationalist, socially leftist" can be so to the right! I hope Obama is a step towards fixing that for them...

Re:Two words

[wolfemi1]

How, exactly, is Carter to blame for either of those? The gas lines were due to OPEC's manipulation of the market, and the hostages were out of his control. He sent special forces in, but they failed to accomplish their objective. Unless he was there on the ground with them, I fail to see how the blame for that can be laid on him.

Half and Half

[iconic999]

He's only HALF black. He's also half WHITE. The proper term for BHO is "multiracial."

Re:Two words

[TheRaven64]

It is juvenile to think someone is evil because they use a different text editor

Even if they use notepad?

You already are begging

[SmallFurryCreature]

Begging for a helping hand with your financial aid. Begging for aid in your wars. Get used to it, even Bush has had to change his tune in the last year as the financial crisis hit harder then the neo-cons ever thought possible.

Re:Two words

[Sj0]

She has daddy issues.

You can tell this because her name is Megyn.

Obviously her parents are left wing nutjobs with little to no respect for spelling, and something happened to form a huge rift between her and her parents.

This is why she now is a spokesperson for a political philosophy which wants to know why she isn't in the kitchen making me a sammich.

Re:Two words

[TheRaven64]

As another European, I'd agree. McCain in 2000 was someone I could respect, even though I disagreed with most of his policies. McCain in 2008 was not.

Re:Two words

[MightyYar]

Now...honestly, what do you think is really going to change?

1. For the first time in 8 years, we have a president who can speak publicly. McCain would have done a fine job, too - but Barack is really a terrific speaker.
2. We've managed to go from segregation to president in about 40 years. More white people voted for Obama than Kerry. That is monumental. The best part is that since Obama is both black and white, he really can see and convey both perspectives of America. We're all going to talk about race a lot more than we used to, and that's a good thing.
3. We don't have to hear nonsense about the government banning stem cell research, blatantly muzzling dissenting scientists, and other such shenanigans that should have any self-respecting geek up in arms.
4. We'll gain some respect back from our allies. This is more than just a point of pride... we're going to need their help. Our army is exhausted and we all need to work together on the financial situation.
5. While I think all of the "Yes, we can," stuff is corny as hell, he does seem to be a pretty good leader. And a leader is what people are looking for right now. People were willing to put up with partisan hacks and leave Washington to fester when times were good, but now people want Washington to be a help and not a hindrance. The first step is to get them to stop acting like spoiled 2-year-olds. Barack is one of those politicians that does not sound like a spoiled 2-year-old.

Personally, I think John McCain could have done a pretty good job on that list as well, but the way his campaign was run in the last 2 or 3 months worried me greatly.

It didn't really hit me that things had changed until I saw the first family up there after the victory speech, and damn if it wasn't a black family. Cue "white house" jokes. :)

Re:Two words

[querist]

Your reference to the "Chinese curse" (there's some debate on the real origins of it) "May you live in interesting times." is actually more "interesting" than you may think.

The phrase in Chinese that is most commonly translated as "interesting" is made of two words (three characters): you3 yi4 si. I won't try to imbed Chinese characters here.

you3 means "to have", as in "I have a car".
yi4 si means "significance" or "meaning", for example, it is used to ask what a word means.

So, a slightly more literal translation would be "May you live in significant times."

To me, that's more frightening than "interesting times".

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[Schadrach]

Not voting Obama does not necessarily indicate racism. Where I work, I could have told you at least 5 of my coworkers were going to vote Republican before the primaries started, regardless if "the black guy", "the white guy", or "the manly chick" had won the Democrats primary.

I *did* however vote Obama (but my views are a lot more left-leaning than about half the people I wokr with [the Democratic party's tendency to push gun control makes them not well received by this group]).

Do you consider any black person who didn't vote for McCain to be racist, or any man that didn't vote for McCain to be sexist (due to Palin)?

Re:Two words

[dintech]

I think you over-estimate the naivity of the banks and mortgage salesmen in relation to the credit crisis. It was nothing but greedy profiteering and has very little to do with encouragement from any recent adminsistration.

Here are some of the key points to remember:

1) Mortgage salesmen got a commision for each mortgage sold, regardless of whether it was stable or would be paid to completion.

2) Alarm bells should have been ringing down at the local bank branch but they weren't. Why? Because they were selling the loans (and inherent risk) on to larger invesment banks who repacked them.

3) The investment banks repackaged these loans together with the flawed reasoning that only a certain percentage would default based on projected market conditions. Those conditions turned out to be wrong.

4) The producers and packagers of asset backed swaps were further laying off and reselling the risk to hedge funds and banks that didn't necessarily have the capital behind them to pay up in the event of a default. It's illegal for insurance companies to take on obligations that they can't pay for but not for banks to jiggle risk around like this. This is criminal negligence in my view and people should have been in court by now.

5) No one really knows who is exposed to what risk because these leveraged products have been resold and unwound between multiple counterparties. The banks don't know how badly affected their peers are so they've stopped lending to others in case they disappear (like Lehman) or they need the cash themselves for their own write-downs which they don't really know the scale of for the reasons mentioned. This is the real credit crisis, not the mortgages themselves. That was just the catalyst.

Put it this way, you won't find anyone in the finance industry saying that they sold all those dodgy mortgages "because the government made us do it". It was greed, pure and simple.

DISCLAIMER: I worked in credit derivitives many years ago.

Re:Two words

[tylerni7]

This nation wasn't founded on partisanship at all. Everyone knows that out founding fathers didn't initially plan a partisan system, but partisanship is a result of how our government and our psychology works.
I think it would be much better to have a non-partisan system, where there aren't only two opinions to choose from. Wouldn't it make much more sense if one could select from, say, 10 candidates with different ideas on things, rather than choosing either Democrat or Republican?

If we have a more limited number of options, the race becomes much more about choosing "the lesser of two evils" than choosing the best person possible to become the president.

Re:Two words

[ahankinson]

But you are on notice. You may be the most powerful *single* country in the world (and I think China might have something to say about that), but the aggregate of the countries that are watching you is much, much larger and has much more to lose. No president would ever invite conflict on American soil, but they have consistently had no problem doing it in other countries. Obama's presidency will either be a turning point or an epic fail. However, I think he has two things going for him that a president absolutely needs: the ability to inspire and get people to push together, and the ability to pick talented people to get the jobs done.

Re:Two words

[Curunir_wolf]

That argument doesn't work anymore. Just because Fox News is a right wing tabloid doesn't mean they all have a bias. If the truth doesn't support your reality and the other news organizations won't bend their coverage to support your viewpoint, that doesn't make them biased.

And yet... they ARE.

Re:Two words

[clary]

Got a source on this? I just went to http://www.hrblock.com/taxes/tax_calculators/index.html and plugged in the poverty level for both a single taxpayer and married filing jointly with 2 kids, and in both cases the result was a refund via earned income tax credit.

Re:Two words

[Free the Cowards]

You're missing two points:

1. There's no "technically" anything when it comes to race. Race is a fiction with no scientific basis. You can't take a cell sample from somebody and pop it in an analyzer and come back and say "this person is 93% black and 7% white".
2. The vast majority of "black" people in the US are actually interracial to one degree or another. There has been a great deal of mixing in the centuries since they've been here. Obama is not even slightly special in this regard.

Re:Two words

[Sj0]

As an outside observer, I've believed from the beginning that simply having Barack Obama in the presidency would be good for America.

The problems with the markets right now stem in part from a lack of confidence in the US internationally.

Frankly, we think you're a bunch of ignorant, violent dicks who managed to actually try to argue that torture is a good thing.

By having someone who isn't saying these things as the ignorant violent dicks in power, I could see international investments slowly building back up, resulting in a more prosperous planet as a whole.

(Seriously. Did you guys really think that arguing about whether torture was really bad would end up well for you?)

Re:Two words

[jedidiah]

Fox news is the least serious of any of the major national news
outlets or publications. They are the sort of people that make
you wish old man Buckley was still around so that he could show
them how it should be done.

They have a tabloid style. They are more sensationalist and
well for the lack of a better way of putting it... they
elevate unqualified kook nobodies to the role of pundit.

A genuine party rag from an earlier era was a more respectable news source.

As a Canadian...

[gravyface]

I've always looked towards the US as Canada's big brother -- the glamorous one that's great at sports, has a better salary, but a bit arrogant too. However, over the last eight years, it's like finding out your older brother has a gambling problem, cheats on his girlfriend, and bullies kids around at school.

Now I know things aren't going to change overnight, but you've made a huge step in the right direction, America, and it's good to see you come around.

Money well spent

[riccati]

I see that Hugo Chavez's investment paid off.

Re:Two words

[MightyYar]

To most black folks, he's black. His daddy was black. His wife is black. His kids are black. He's a Democrat. He attends a black church.

You are right that there is a big difference between being black or white and being mixed-race. A mixed-race guy like Obama truly understands the perspective of a black person and of a white person. He's heard it all from both sides and has had his whole life to think about these things. This is why he can talk to white people and address their concerns and also talk to black people and address their concerns.

A typical black person (or white person) will most likely not have this insight, and I hope that blacks don't get too attached to hopes that Obama will act strictly as a black advocate. This will lead to profound disappointment.

While he is the first black president, he's also the 44th white president.

Re:United States Socialist Republic

[LordKronos]

And by the same token, don't the rich people make their wealth based on the infrastructure of our country? Don't they need the roads, rails, or airlines to transport their good that they sell to make themselves rich? Don't they use our communications infrastructure to make their business deals? Don't they use our patent system to file their patents, and then our court systems when their competitors violate said patents? Don't they use our law enforcement and military to ensure the security of their possessions from people (both domestic and international) who would be more than happy to take it (or destory it) if it were unprotected?

Re:Two words

[jedidiah]

So?

68% of the young vote went to Obama.
68% of the hispanic vote went to Obama.
68% of the "first election" vote went to Obama.
68% of the "previously gave up on elections" vote went to Obama.

This wasn't just a landslide in the black community.

Blacks can't relate to a geezer WASP and fundie nutbag from Alaska. Imagine that.

The Palin nomination pretty much killed his appeal to anyone outside of the Republican neocon base (which doesn't include blacks).

Blacks not voting for Palin/McCain is like blacks not voting for David Duke (no big surprise)

Re:Two words

[DahGhostfacedFiddlah]

I can't speak for Germany, but I believe they're similar to the system we have here in Canada. We don't have a Presidential ("Prime-ministerial"?) election either, but the results are the same. We're well aware of who the leader of the country will be when we vote, and the PM simply doesn't change between elections barring extraordinary circumstances.

Theoretically, the party could switch leaders immediately after the election, but it simply doesn't happen - any more than US state electors cast their presidential vote against the will of their own state.

Assuming this is in any way similar to Germany, I think it's disingenuous to claim that "they don't elect their president" based on the fact that their underlying mechanisms are a bit different from yours.

Re:Two words

[YttriumOxide]

You essentially had the choice (in my eyes) between: "Someone who says he'll do bad things, and might", and "Someone who says he'll do good things, but might not". Not the best of choices, but it's clear which one is the better of the two. I'm glad the right choice was made for once.

Re:Two words

[Daimaou]

He or she is saying that people who don't succeed will find any loophole that enables them to blame their inability to succeed on others. He or she is absolutely correct.

Most blacks in the US are interracial

[Quila]

They just don't identify as such, and the public doesn't either. I can see this in my own family. Also look at Tiger Woods, only one-quarter black yet the black community sees him as black.

It seems that many blacks themselves have adopted the Jim Crow "one drop of blood" rule, at least when it's convenient.

Re:Would it not be interesting...

[PRMan]

It was originally that way until the 12th Amendment in 1804. Apparently the practice ended because people were worried that the Vice President's party would murder the President to take power:

In addition, it was becoming increasingly apparent that a situation in which the Vice President had been a defeated electoral opponent of the President impeded the ability of the two to effectively work together, and could provide motivation, at least in theory, for a coup d'état (since the Vice President would succeed to the office of the President upon the removal or death of the President). The Twelfth Amendment, in having the President and Vice President elected as a ticket, eliminated this possibility.

Wikipedia

Re:Two words

[illumin8]

It may also surprise you that, in retrospect, experience is not correlated to being a good president, and in fact some of the the most inexperienced presidents have been some of the most successful.

Speaking of experience: I'll take a constitutional law professor over a career politician any day when it comes to protecting my rights. Unlike Bush, Obama knows the constitution is more than a "piece of paper" and when he swears to protect and uphold it, I believe his words have credibility and meaning.

Re:Two words

[jedidiah]

...yes, it was all of that lending to "the wrong people".

It had nothing to do with the fact that these days banks
don't care about "bad loans" because they've gotten into
the habit of reselling them and quickly become "someone
else's problem".

It had nothing to do with predatory ARMs that anyone with
a solid grounding in match could see were a ticking timebomb.

It had nothing to do with making loans to people without
verifying any means to pay.

It had nothing to do with ignoring people's debt to income ratio.

It had nothing to do with allowing people to get a mortgage
without any sort of down payment and having "no skin in the game".

The Magic Word

[BearRanger]

"Sacrifice". Obama said it in his victory speech, and I believe McCain also said it in his concession speech. The problems of this country are so massive they can't be solved without each of us giving something to the cause. I'm not talking taxes, although I'm sure that will figure into it. If Obama is going to be successful--and by extension, make the country successful--we're all going to have to embrace the notion of personal sacrifice and service to the country. Think about that before you reflexively complain about what's bound to be unpleasant for many of us. In the words of John McCain: "It's time to put the country first."

Prepare yourselves for four years of austerity. We can't continue as a country where the only people who actively sacrifice for it are the members of the military and their families.

Re:The Magic Word

[dwiget001]

How about the slack arsed non-working, bitching-moaning-and-whining sluggards to pick themselves up by they bootstraps and *them* contributing to making things better, huh?

I have worked my arse off for over 28 years *and* volunteer to worthwhile causes *and* donate money to such also.

Why should *I* do more? Why not others *doing more* that have not been paying their own freight?

Re:Two words

[plasmoidia]

News organizations are run by people. *That* means they all have a bias.

A New Day Has Dawned

[Gurthang99]

On November 4, 2008, America overcame 221 years of division and another barrier came down. America has elected its first African-American president. Born to a mother from Kansas and a father from Kenya, Barrack Obama overcame numerous obstacles just to be nominated to lead our great nation. I come from a racist family. Many are shaking their heads and wondering how a black man could possibly be trusted with the ultimate office. I am praying for President-Elect Obama. The easy part is done. Now the heavy lifting up and healing of this bruised and battered nation must be accomplished. How could any man fulfill such high expectations that the electorate of this great country have invested upon him? No, I did not vote for him. I have not voted for a main party candidate for President since Ronald Reagan. But I swore an oath when I become an Army Officer to defend the constitution. That oath has no expiration date. It is my solemn duty to support our President. And so I look upon this dawning of a new day... A new era for America, with hope that some good may come from all of the troubles that we now face. May God bless the President and the People of the United States of America and of the world.

Re:Two words

[DrgnDancer]

(Seriously, did you really think most of us actually bought that shit?)

The guy never had better than a 50-50 approval rating and by the time the the torture stuff really hit the fan it was a lot lower. Had the 2004 election happened in 2006 Kerry would have won in a landslide, but sadly in 2004 W. still had enough people fooled to squeak by. Seriously, Americans are not a monolithic group think over here. We have different opinions on all kind of issues. I would think, given your 6 digit UID, that you've been reading /. long enough to get an idea for how "Americans" are no more in agreement on any one issue than any other large group on the face of the Earth.

Re:Two words

[JoeZeppy]

Most people who think Fox News is an arm of the GOP, are comfortable getting their news from multiple sources, CNN, BBC, CBS, NBC, etcetera, EXCEPT for Fox News.

while most people who think Fox News is Fair and Balanced(tm) are of the opinion that all other mainstream media are "in the tank" for whomever they are hating that week, and are NOT to be trusted. this magnifies the echo chamber effect, since they are unable or unwilling to consider opposing viewpoints.

What's worse, is they incorrectly assume that everyone else must think like they do, and all other news outlets are as shrill and partisan as Fox is, because they have nothing to compare to.

Re:All I can say now is...

[horza]

They started talking since the Irish economy took off and the IRA figured they could make more money through real-estate by paying off councilors than through running arms and drugs. It wasn't through some hippy breakthrough with government and terrorists smoking a joint together and proclaiming world peace. At the end of the day money talks. As it did with the US economy providing a radical shift towards Obama, as it did with prudish America not caring about Clinton's indiscretions as long as he kept improving the economy and increasing people's paychecks.

Phillip.

Re:Two words

[milimetric]

Here's the thing, and I'm sure others have said it:

He won as a beacon of hope. He's not going to take the world on his shoulder Atlas style, give it a good shaking and make all of us rich, healthy and happy. We have to do that for ourselves, with his help. His approval rating will hopefully follow the average of individual self-approval ratings across the globe. And that's the very Best thing we can hope for in a politician.

Here's to a renewed effort!

Re:Two words

[tmosley]

I would tend to agree with most of your statement, but I would say that the problem with the economy (not just the markets) is our hideously bloated credit-card culture, which was promoted so much by Bush and Co (remember him telling us to go out and spend so the "terrorists don't win"?).

Both the government and individuals are up to their ears in debt, and the only way we can even continue to pay the interest is to borrow more. The government has really good credit, but that doesn't mean spit when there isn't enough money to pay the bills, and the only way out is to print more money (or default). One way leads to hyperinflation, Weimar style, and the other leads to nasty, mutually destructive trade wars, and a flight from dollars (which also causes hyperinflation as all the trillions of dollars sitting in government reserves flood the market, bidding up prices on EVERYTHING priced in dollars).

'Cause one party has most of the racists?

[Grendel Drago]

Perhaps black folks would vote Republican if the Republican party exorcised its racism. Like it or not, they're the party of white dudes scared as hell that they might not be better than some black dude. While that does well for the scared white dude vote, it doesn't do well for the black vote.

You might consider that black people tend to be surprisingly socially conservative. They'd probably lean Republican, if it weren't for the racism.

You might also consider that Latinos were a solidly Republican constituency in 2004, but were solidly Democratic in 2008, despite being generally socially conservative. (Consider the D/R split in California compared to the split over Prop 8.) You can thank Tom Tancredo, Michelle Malkin and their ilk for that.

Re:Uncle Tom

[erroneus]

I think that is wrong. They fear failure... which doesn't make "them" any different from "us."

Being afraid of failure is the number one thing preventing success for most people of all divisions and classifications.

Re:Two words

[retchdog]

in re: 1., yes you can: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test#Biogeographical_ancestry. Of course, whether race means something apart from where you or your ancestors happened to come from, that is still open (*). But make no mistake, there absolutely is a technical concept of "biogeographical ancestry" which is very analogous to what is called race, and incorporating it into a model can increase the power and accuracy of clinical trials and disease screens. I would call this scientific.

*: Of course, to see as much between-group genetic variation as there is, and straight-facedly claim a priori that race has no statistical effect on anything, is just a bit silly. It's just one of those things you have to entertain for society's benefit.

Re:Two words

[h4rm0ny]

understands the perspective of a black person

Entire racial groups have a perspective now? When I lived in the USA, I met a Morrocan student who told me the most annoying thing in the USA were all the people who told him that they were "African." They all had more in common with their white countrymen than they did with him. There's no supportable reason a black person can't see things from a white person's perspective and vice versa. But the black person can't see things from white people's perspective and a white person can't see things from black people's perspective, because there is no such united view. There isn't even enough cultural unity to talk in generalities. If you were white, would it make sense for someone to ask you what white people thought of a particular topic. Outside of the most contrived examples, it would not.

What we should be discussing here is Obama's policies and intentions. Not pages and pages of discussion about his ethnicity. The fact that we are not is the clearest sign of a problem to me, although I think it is one that is being worked out.

Re:Two words

[ogminlo]

Let's give the guy some room to see what a Democratic president with Democratic congress can do for four years.

I can think of very few things that frighten me more.

You mean like a GOP stranglehold on the entire federal government for four years? We had that from 2002-2006 and look what happened. The GOP owned the House, Senate, Executive, and the SCOTUS during that time. What did they do with it? They took unprecedented steps to marginalize the opposition and completely mismanaged the country to the point that for two straight elections the electorate has roundly turned them out on their asses.

I seriously doubt the Democrats will immediately forget what happens to a party that thinks it has just attained "permanent majority" and runs roughshod over the country.

At least, I hope so.

Re:Two words

[Sj0]

The fact that you even had that conversation is insane. The fact that until now, the majority of the electorate was on the side of those people is even more insane.

Re:Two words

[Lemmy Caution]

He's not white. He's not really "half-white." He's black. He's also half of African descent and half of European descent.

Being black is like being red-haired or left-handed. It's a constellation of physical characteristics that have been lumped into the idea of a "race" by a few hundred years of domination. The same is true of being white. These races are historical inventions which used certain physical features for their rationale. Now these inventions have a certain cultural reality to them, which is why we talk about "African Americans," as a shorthand for describing the communities of people whose ancestors were brought into the US by slavery and who share a cluster of cultural experiences. Obama, of course, was not born into that community - he was raised by a white grandmother, his father came from Kenya. etc. - but by virtue of being black, he was associated with that community.

Yes, it's complicated. But you can work it out. It is important to not think of being white as the same as being Irish, and more like being red-haired.

Re:Two words

[hey!]

I don't believe Obama will fix anything "magically", because I don't believe in magic. However, there is reason for everybody here to hope, even Republicans.

Democracy does not consistently select good leaders. No system can do that, which is why democracy is important: democracy works by making throwing out bad leaders easier. You don't have to take to the streets with Molotov cocktails or worry about your relatives disappearing into some secret police dungeon to get regime change.

Competition improves the breed, and so a spot of extinction pressure is a hopeful thing. It means the system is still working on some level.

It's just like the free market. The market doesn't mean you are consistently satisfied with your purchases. No economic system could do that. It means that it is easy to switch vendors, which keeps the vendors working hard to satisfy you and redress your grievances.

Our system is designed to prevent overnight changes. 2008 is the continuation of a process that started in 2006, of throwing out the Republican party. Republicans should be glad in the long term of this, just as Democrats should be glad that they can lose most of their gains in the next election. Just as competition improves the breed, complacency ruins it. The Democrats, for now, are aware the country has just thrown out the old regime, and that come January there will be no more excuses. As long as they are mindful of this, they will at least try to do better.

Republicans will of course be looking at the mistakes that the Democrats will make. If they're smart, they'll look at the mistakes they themselves made. There are those in the party who say the answer is to become more like the party that got thrown out in 2006. I think the Republicans have a good shot of convincing the American people the Democrats have overreached if they deemphasize the ultra socially conservative southern wing and turn to the fiscally conservative, socially moderate and libertarian leaning Republicans of the West and Northeast.

I hope they do, I hope they put together and honest, credible attack on the Democrats by 2012. And I'm a Democrat. No party that thinks itself unassailable, as the Republicans did in 2005, can be trusted.

Re:Two words

[PalmKiller]

Most blacks in the US are interracial. African-American in the truest sense of the word. You see the slave owners liked to mess around with the slaves, and this happened much more often than anyone would admit. Most male slave owners liked to add a little white to their slave blood line, thought it would make their slaves better stock. Sometimes the slave owners wife would end up having a half black child, and the owners would either give them to a slave to raise or sell them...normally a male slave got sold or shot at that point also for some odd reason.

Re:Two words

[Cornflake917]

No thanks. I'll give a shit what color he is mainly because it's a pretty damn good gauge of how far America has come along in terms of overcoming some nasty racism. That doesn't mean I will use the color of his skin to judge his abilities as his president, human being, etc. You act like the rhetoric spewing is coming from one side. I bet you I can find the same amount of people who can't really get past the words "socialist" and "Muslim" when talking about Obama's policies.

Re:Two words

[Anonymous Coward]

The victim mentality has been promulgated too long and
is too deeply ingrained in some people's minds of all
colors in this country.

We have had black senators, black generals, black CEOs,
and 4 black governors.

Most of the big money sports stars are minorities now as well.

Minorities have a more difficult time of getting success
in these endeavors, but it is doable.

Keep in mind, I am American Indian.

A black president will not cure the victim crutch ppl of their
self debilitation it will have to be by their own determination.

Re:Two words

[quantaman]

Blaming Bush will only work for so long.

Want to bet?

Blaming Hoover worked for FDR's entire reign.

-jcr

And the republicans are still blaming FDR!

Re:Two words

[s0litaire]

Funny, I thought we were ALL gods Children.....:D

Re:Two words

[Kent Recal]

There's no "technically" anything when it comes to race. Race is a fiction with no scientific basis. You can't take a cell sample from somebody and pop it in an analyzer and come back and say "this person is 93% black and 7% white".

To paraphrase obama: Yes, you can. The different skin-colors stem from genetic differences and those can be detected. I'm not saying that distinguishing between skin-colors or "races" makes any sense - but technically it's possible to determine someone's skin-color from a DNA-sample, with increasing accuracy.

Re:Two words

[hey!]

Actually, geneticists have shown there is African ancestry (recent as in the last couple of thousands of years) in many European populations. I wouldn't be surprised if much of it spread through Muslim Spain and the Ottoman empire, but we also know that Mediterranean trade missions went as far afield as Britain during the Bronze Age, and where people swap goods, they also have a tendency of leaving genes behind as well. Think about it: Nubia to Egypt; Egypt to Phoenicia; Phoenicia to Celtic lands and so on.

Genes exist to be spread. There are certain Y chromosome markers that are only found in two places: an Indian tribe in the US Midwest, and in Finland. Nobody knows how this happened... well we know how it happened obviously, but the precise history of how this particular Y chromosome spread is unknown.

Likewise, take some historical figure like Alexander the Great. The statistical operation of gene transfer means that after well over a thousand years, either (a) he has no descendants or (b) practically everybody in the world is his descendant.

Re:Two words

[MightyYar]

Entire racial groups have a perspective now?

Obviously not, but in the US there is a strong correlation between color and perspective. Surely you don't deny this?

There's no supportable reason a black person can't see things from a white person's perspective and vice versa.

That is true, but only if there is more than superficial interaction. Much of the US is still self-segregated.

There isn't even enough cultural unity to talk in generalities

This is demonstrably false. Black people of all backgrounds were partying hard last night - almost universally happy. Even before this election, about 90% of the black vote would consistently go to the democrats. There is less cohesion among whites.

If you were white, would it make sense for someone to ask you what white people thought of a particular topic.

I am white, and it quite depends on the topic that you are going to ask me about. As an example whites, in general, do not understand how blacks can sympathize with rioters. Just look at how divided by color everyone was over the OJ trial.

What we should be discussing here is Obama's policies and intentions. Not pages and pages of discussion about his ethnicity.

Why the hell not? It's an important part of who he is, and it's one of the biggest long-term issues that faces the US.

The fact that we are not is the clearest sign of a problem to me, although I think it is one that is being worked out.

Well, considering that a majority-white country just elected a guy with a black father to the highest office makes it very hard to disagree with you :)

Re:More than Two words

[Millennium]

Most of what SNL did was just quote her straight-up, which is the truly scary part: SNL didn't even need to write most of its own jokes. Palin is just that much of a twit, and the worst part is that she knew just enough to twist this to her advantage in the debates. Someone capable of this is not someone who belongs within 5000 miles of the most powerful office in the US (and, arguably, the world).

Palin is not the first person whose greatest attack ads were simply her own words played back at her. Sadly, she will probably not be the last either. But when they do spring up, there is good reason to fear them.

It's a shame about McCain. It really is. He's a strong statesman, a good politician, and he probably would have been at least as good for the country (if in different ways) than Obama. But Palin had to be stopped, and fortunately, she was. You might even say that she won the election; she just won it for the opposing side.

Re:My tears will fill an ocean

[justinlee37]

Over 4,000 American soldiers have died, and that death tally doesn't even include the other side. When we respond to the murder of 3,000 of our citizens by getting that many soldiers killed again, and killing 30,000 or more in retaliation, yeah, it's horrific.

I don't think we should measure the horror of war relative to other wars; it is all a tragedy.

Re:Two words

[MightyYar]

He IS half-white. I have a daughter who is mixed, and there is a difference between a black person (my wife), a white person (me), and a mixed person (my daughter). A white or black person can (and usually does) self-segregate in terms of friends and family. Sure, you may have co-workers and such that are a different race, but you rarely have to get into deep, meaningful discussions with them that lead to understanding one another on a fundamental level.

A mixed kid, on the other hand, has no opportunity to self-segregate. They are stuck with their mixed family at the very least. This is a very different way to grow up. In Obama's case, he was largely treated as a black guy by society in general and yet raised by white people. He truly has a perspective that is unique from a typical "black" person.

That said, I am fully aware that Obama (and for that matter, my daughter) is considered "black" by society at large. The first paragraph of my original post stated this as a rebuff to the guy above me who claimed that blacks will say that he's mixed. But I had to point out that an interracial guy is not going to have a purely "black" perspective - if such a thing still exists.

Re:Two words

[homer_ca]

How many black people voted for him simply because he has dark skin?

Very few. The Democrats have a lock on the black vote already. Any other Democrat would've done about as well. Instead of blaming the other side, maybe you should look at what the Republican party did to turn off those voters, like maybe race-baiting attacks from their media proxies, i.e. Rush, Hannity, Glenn Beck, etc.

Re:Did you notice how bare the popular margin was?

[DigitalSorceress]

Ahh, but we're not a Democracy, we're a Representative Republic. There may be some shortcomings, but over-all, I think we've got a decent system which generally avoids a "Tyranny of the Majority".

As an American I fervently hope that President Elect Obama will move forward on his campaign promises to get us out of the war in Iraq and will work to rebuild our relations with the rest of the world.

Re:Two words

[sjs132]

Actually, it doesn't matter about the black / white things... I want the truth about ALIENS in AREA 51 released!

Re:Two words

[famebait]

"all the words and ideas"? The only thing you mention that has anything remotely to do with socialism is taxes. But accepting the need for taxes does not make one a socialist, any more than building freeways makes you a nazi.

US taxes are at a historically low level. Returning to a level a bit more like what you had 70 years ago or more will not make you any more of a socialist country than you were back then.

Fear mongering of your type is always trite, but your attempt was particularly uninspired and sleep-inducing.

Here is me

[Anonymous Crowhead]

The last eight years have been the most prosperous of my life. My parents kicked me to the curb when I was 18. I made my way through life by working hard and getting educated. Now I own a house in one of the most expensive cities in the US. I have 10 years of living expenses in the bank. Other than a $180K mortgage, I have no debt. No one handed it to me. I earned it.

Should things get worse for me in the future, I will not blame Obama. I never attributed my success to Bush, I never blamed Clinton when my net worth tanked with the dot com bubble. My house is my house. It was worth $600K two years ago, now maybe $450. So what? I don't have an ARM. It doesn't take too many IQ points to understand that when interest rates wwere at historic lows trying to shave 1 or 2% off your rate at the risk of higher rates in the future was a fool's errand. I have been poor. But I never had a credit card balance or any other debt I couldn't pay. Why? Because I will go without before running up debt.

If you blame the politicians for your lot in life, maybe you should reexamine. Your life is what you make of it. In the end, the leadership of this country has very little to do with it.

Take a break from your hand wringing about how you are being oppressed by the RIAA or patents and examine your life. It's not all about free music, movies and linux. It's about what you do personally to make your life better. Don't blame the government if your life sucks. The blame lies with you.

Re:Needs to do more in just 2 years.

[WindBourne]

The reason why Nixon, reagan, and W all broke the law so much is because there is NO real penalty. W and his admin MUST be investigated.

Re:W00t! Welfare for all!

[JustASlashDotGuy]

You can thank Clinton for the bank mess that Bush was forced to clean up. Check this link out from 1999.. .to bad people didn't listen back then.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

Re:Two words

[Lemmy Caution]

Race is still a fiction. The fiction is based on selecting certain superficial features that have a genetic basis, and so there will be a loose correlation with other genetic traits in populations. The fiction is that one takes a handful of genetically-determined characteristics - skin color, hair color, facial features - and and treating it as a category.

Re:Two words

[Cornflake917]

You know what I think (and hope) will change? This election has proven that the status-quo of Republican smear tactics are no longer successful (or at least not AS successful). Facing this disastrous defeat, I hope that the Republicans take a step back and realize that such divisiveness is not good for a country. I think it's great that Kay Hagan got elected despite the despicable attacks made from her opponent. Furthermore, maybe they will return to their roots as a truly conservative party and quit trying to pander so much to the religious zealots and disgustingly rich. It's not about what Barack Obama will do create change, it's about what changes the Republicans will be forced to make in order to seem like a viable party again.

Re:Two words

[geekoid]

I love the BBC becasue the women have British accents..mmmm I'll believe anything they say.

Re:Two words

[Un pobre guey]

I don't think you understand the role of an executive. Presidents and CEOs don't do actual work in the sense of directly performing the organization's production of goods and services. Their role is to 1) make sure everything that is needed for production is available (both financial and material), 2) shielding the people doing the production from distractions and obstacles, 3) making sure the organization avoids liability and threats to its smooth functioning, and often most importantly 4) casting stars in the organization members' eyes to keep them inspired, motivated, focused, and productive.

I don't see anything lacking in Obama. The Bush years were divisive, destructive, and monumentally depressing. McCain was set to traverse that same road, rallying some of the least educated and thoughtful of our fellow citizens as did Bush before him. I for one am glad we avoided that this time.

Re:Two words

[g0at]

Thank God.

Uh, no. How about thank the American voters.

Re:Two words

[ByOhTek]

And your use of "latte belt" shows you have no clue of the large portion of the countries population in urban areas.

Both groups have very strong opinions and ideas. Both groups have their histories and values. And both groups have a vast majority of people who CANNOT see the world from the point of view of the other side, or even grant that point of view validity, which it does have. I've been around both sides, and they aren't nearly as different as they'd like to think, it's typical 'us against them' that people do to make themselves feel more unified as a group.

Palin would have increased that schism and animosity. Obama won't help, but he won't do as much to hurt it either. McCain probably would have been the best middle ground in that respect, of the for P/VP options.

Re:Two words

[Anpheus]

Maybe the election coverage was more positive for Obama than McCain because McCain halfway through the campaign decided to take off the gloves and go so stinking filthy dirty with his ads and rallies that it turned off anyone watching and the journalists writing about it.

Maybe truly horrendous campaigning leads to negative press, whodathunk?

Re:Two words

[TheGeneration]

I spent the last 5 days in Sun Valley, Nevada talking to people of all colors, knocking on their doors and asking them to vote. The feeling on the ground in this battleground state was HOPE. Real HOPE that we can get past the petty divisions that have kept this nation from progressing past Reagan.

All of us need to forgive the Republicans and invite them to JOIN us in creating the future America in which every American will have a stronger stake in our economy, socialized medicine, and equality for everybody. Because these things benefit the Republicans as much as they benefit us. It isn't us against them, it's us AND them. That has ALWAYS been the real message of the Obama campaign.

Today conservatives will try to shove the wedge between us again. We must tell their followers that their differing opinions have value while showing them our own values.

The era of gotcha politics has finally come to an end. If we want to move forward all of us have to forgive the Republican supporters. They still have a place in this country and we want them at our side. They can join us, or they can rally against us, but we're going to keep moving forward as a nation. Like I said, the things we want benefit them as well. We just have to show them how.

Dear Rest of the World,

[gatkinso]

See? We aren't ALL cross burning rednecks!

However if you think we are going to start using less oil, stop polluting, pay off our credit cards, learn French, and stop bombing smaller nations, think again.

Oh yeah, we could use about $700,000,000,000 right about now.... I won't bother to convert that figure to yen or euro.

Re:Two words

[CorporateSuit]

You can't take a cell sample from somebody and pop it in an analyzer and come back and say "this person is 93% black and 7% white".

Not in those certain terms, no, but close.

This is, of course, nonsense

[jopet]

It is nonsense because luck plays a big role in personal success, no matter what you do. Luck can make you rich and luck can make you poor and luck can make you need a wheelchair. And it is nonsense because society (especially US society) does not give same opportunities to everyone. People do not have equal chances at all.

It has always been the politics of the conservative parties to keep up the myth you are spreading here and do as much as possible to not let solidarity happen: that what a really civilized society should be based on: to also let people live in dignity even if they had no luck and no oportunities.
Instead the republicans have pumped millions and billions into wars banks and into the task of killing hundreds of thousands of civilians all over the worlds, while letting their own people hunger and go without even basic medical care.

I won't keep you from going on with jerking off to your own success, but doing someting about one's own life might be necessary but certainly is not sufficient to make one's life better or even worth to be called human.

Go around, open your eyes and talk to people and maybe, just maybe, you will start to understand.

Re:Democracy just died

[RiffRafff]

There ARE more than two parties. They're just not allowed to participate in the debates. Rectify that, and you'll see real change. The Republocrats are just two peas in the same pod, with very little to differentiate themselves from each other.

If third parties are on the majority of states' ballots, they should be automatically invited to the televised debates, period. If the two major parties have all the answers, then they should have nothing to fear.

Re:Anti-White Racism in the Afro Community

[MrMarket]

Guess what? Whites are no longer a majority in this country. (IE: Less than 50% of the population).

Whites make up 74% of the US population according to the Census Bureau .

Re:Two words

[ryanov]

I know Republicans for whom Palin was the line they could not cross. I think the line should be drawn a lot earlier than that, but hey, it is what it is.

Half Arab????

[hellfire]

There is no question that the election of a half-Arab, half-Black child of a broken home to the Presidency of the United States *says* something to the world and to history about us as a country, as an ideal, that can never, ever, be taken away.

I think idiotic statements like are what defined what the rest of the world thought of the US before this election, don't keep it up. You almost made a good point until you detracted from your entire statement with this nonsense.

Obama's mother is from Wichita, Kansas, and is quite caucasian. His biological father is from Kenya, and was ethnically called a Luo, a subsaharan African ethnic group. His adopted father, while in fact a muslim, was ethnically indonesian. Not all muslims are arabs.

Arab is an ethnic term, and there is no evidence that Obama is in any way Arab (just like there's no evidence he's muslim). I can't fathom why you said this, other than the fact that you might be thinking arab=muslim. If that was the case, then that's just plain idiotic, and is yet another reason why the world hates us, because if we can't get that right, we can't get foreign policy right.

Re:Two words

[Lijemo]

No, he's not.

Re:Two words

[ryanov]

I'm not sure he strongly supports affirmative action.

You have to realize there are still folks around here who grew up in school systems with one room for the entire primary school which were essentially a holding tank to keep them off the streets... really no formal education. Some of those people are only 60 years old. Is affirmative action the right solution? I don't know... but how do we actually make things right for people who got shafted so badly by our public education system?

Re:Two words

[pcolaman]

Watch the massive interview that O'Reilly had with Obama. He even asked Obama at the end if he thought he had been even and fair with him, and Obama concurred that he had.

International hope too

[EmbeddedJanitor]

The last 8 years have seen a dramatic erosion of the international good will that USA built up. Something that Obama can fix almost immediately is working towards rebuilding that good will. This is reflected in how the world has welcomed the change.

Changing the USA mindset from fear mongering to hope is a huge thing in itself and is the first step towards rebuilding US as a nation and an international player.

While the "first black president" thing might be an historic moment for black civil rights, that is not what Obama is about.

Re:question

[IamTheRealMike]

I'm 24 too. Don't worry, you'll get over the Ron Paul phase. Took me about a week - ended around the time I read some of the things he actually said, instead of the lofty philosophies his fans assigned to him.

Re:Two words

[Grishnakh]

The woman has claimed she speaks in tongues. That makes her a nutcase.

Re:Why?

[Darby]

I'm still puzzled how libertarians can vote for him. Sure he can lead, and the country might prosper, but it won't be in the direction I want.

Libertarians can vote him if they're of the mindset that they'd rather vote for the major party that is closest to their ideals than the one farthest away (and of course if they don't want to vote for a third party).

The Republicans took over the mantle of biggest big government supporters long ago. So now we have two major big government parties. The Democrats who believe in some restraint in government spending and the Republicans who believe in no restraint in increasing the size of the government.

It's not like this isn't obvious (go look at the numbers) and it's not recent (Reagan was the big government king until Bush. Reagan took that mantle from FDR).

However, Republicans are Fascists which is the extreme right wing, so any movement to the left *is* towards Classical Liberalism, which is more or less the position of libertarians. You have to go past that and keep going to even hit the left side of the board.

So, it's pretty sad to see a libertarian as stupid as you must be to have fallen for such silly Republican propaganda. I mean a few minutes of thought and a little bit of knowledge would make these things obvious to you.

Re:W00t! Welfare for all!

[YttriumOxide]

You do understand that we still are defending Japan and Germany right?

Interesting wording... you're still here, but who exactly are you 'defending' us FROM?

If you pull out your military now, we promise we won't start any more wars, and we're quite sure we'll be fine without you here 'defending' us.

Don't get me wrong, most countries are pretty thankful for some of the things the US has done in the past (e.g. the Berlin airlift that you mentioned), but it's a bit much to expect eternal and undying gratitude for just those few events, especially since the "rebuilding" you did was mostly because you bombed the cities to oblivion first (think of it this way: if yo hadn't bombed it, you wouldn't have had to pay to fix it...)

Re:Two words

[ppanon]

Last night, after it had been announced that Barack was President-Elect, Jesse Jackson was bawling his eyes out. I don't think it was because Jackson was thinking "That should have been me!", I think it was because Jackson was thinking "I used to think I would never live to see a day with a black president".

There were a lot of people in the US who still refused to vote for a black man. But now that it's happened and that Obama, who is a lot more mainstream than the Republicans painted him out to be, will show that most of those fears were as much utter rubbish as the Iraqi WMD, those kinds of attacks will be a lot harder to make stick on the next go round. When you repeatedly lie and are shown to have lied, your credibility takes a dive, even with the notoriously easily-distracted US electorate.

Obama would never have made it if Bush/Cheney incompetency and malevolence hadn't been so rampant that it so badly damaged the Republican brand. If you believe in an interventionist god, there were a lot of unusual circumstances (like the credit crisis and stock market crash) that were very timely in helping put him over the top. If fundamentalist Christians actually believe what they claim, they should be doing some heavy soul-searching today about whether the unlikelihood of the timing of those events isn't miraculous.

Not that I believe in some kind of supernatural intervention; the deregulation & supply side economics house of cards was bound to tumble down at some point in time. But I can't hold any respect for people who can't even stay consistent in the fantasies they expound to everyone else.

Re:More than Two words

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

so whatever he does to worsen the depression

Sounds like you've made your mind up already!

Re:Two words

[Bryan Ischo]

The hubris of the successful is often equally as unjustified. I think it's pathetic to look down on your common man because he failed in significantly different circumstances from those in which you succeeded.

An essay inspired by suddenoutbreak tag

[caxis0]

'America, we are better than these last eight years. We are a better country than this.'

This was a triumph. I'm making a note here: huge success. It's hard to overstate my satisfaction . . .

For a few precious minutes last night, it truly felt as if there had been a sudden outbreak of common sense--that we had finally done something meaningful and right. For a moment, I honestly could not understand what I was feeling. It was pride. Pride in my country. How corny is that? Or more to the point: What does it say about us and our recent history that for many people my age and younger, patriotism and being 'proud to be an american' has fallen so completely out of fashion? Is it not significant that my feeling of pride for our nation was immediately accompanied by the initial disbelief and surprise that I was feeling it at all?

This wave of euphoria that accompanies being witness to history unfortunately breaks upon even a cursory inspection of comments posted by Joe the Alledged Everyman on any given blog or message board. Ubiquitous are the comments crafted of outlandish allegations about our President Elect and our future that are almost as unbelievable as the sad truth that anyone actually believes them. The hatred is palpable in a way that unfortunately guarantees the conclusion of euphoria and predicates a swift return to planet Earth.

I don't like people who think hating the opposition is a criterion for supporting their candidate. My stomach tightened up as McCain was giving his extremely gracious concession speech and the crowd actually started booing at the mention of his opponent's name. It was hard to watch.

I really quite admire John McCain. I have for a very long time. It's no secret that he has often been referred to as the 'democrats favorite republican,' and true to this aphorism, he is my favorite as well.

I agree with McCain on a number of issues. I agree with him about building more nuclear power plants, I agree with him about preserving gun rights, I agree him about the troop surge, about school vouchers, and about ear marks. I deeply admire his service to this country and am thankful for his willingness to reach across the isle to get things done. I think he is a man of great character--he is no more Bush III than Obama is a marxist terrorist. McCain would have never been a puppet for Cheney like our current president. McCain doesn't subscribe to cronyism, McCain puts country before party. McCain is a great man.

So why did I vote for Obama?

Because universal healthcare is of great importance to me, but even more important is my belief that our leader should have a socially progressive agenda. I am in favor of gay rights. I believe they should be able to marry, I believe they should be able to adopt, and I believe that they should have the same protections that we would afford any other minority. I believe in a woman's right to choose. In the next term, it is likely that the president will be called upon to appoint two new supreme court justices and I am loathe to risk putting the court in an even larger conservative strangle hold.

However, I share many ideas with those same conservatives, but socially I am a liberal and it is regrettable that in order to pursue the realization of certain political ideals I share with the right that I would have to also be in league with people who I find almost as repulsive morally as I find their self righteousness in being so.

Obama is an intellectual. He is thoughtful, he is deliberate. I like that. His demeanor was another significant reason that I favored his candidacy. I'm not sure when this country started looking down on people with a high level of education. We are the most powerful and wealthy nation on the planet, the idea that we should eschew the educated man is simply ridiculous. I think our leader should be of the highest intelligence available. My mind still recoils every time I think that we elected a C a

Re:Two words

[cayenne8]

"He quit his church when, earlier this year, he discovered his pastor was a racist. He no longer attends a church, though he may start again now that his campaign is over."

I still find it amazing that he regularly attended that church for like 20 years, yet never found the preacher to be a racist, till those films of him in action got out.

Re:Two words

[tbannist]

You interfere with the free market, force banks to make loans to people who clearly can't afford it just so they can meet some loans-to-minorities quota, and this is what you get.

False.

75% of the sub prime loans your are referring to were under no obligation, federal or otherwise to do so. They were made by unregulated organizations that resold the mortgages for a quick profit.

In fact, the limited regulation that required these loans be made tended to make the borrowers less like to go bankrupt because the oversight prevented extortionate interest rates.

This was a free market problem, not a government regulation problem (unless you want to argue that there wasn't enough government regulation).

Racism? We just pass the hate along elsewhere

[IdahoEv]

No thanks. I'll give a shit what color he is mainly because it's a pretty damn good gauge of how far America has come along in terms of overcoming some nasty racism.

We have come a long way in reducing racism. We've passed the hate to the next down the line.

Here's a vastly oversimplified view of the line:

1830: Americans hate and persecute the Irish immigrants.

1890: Americans (now including the Irish) persecute the Polish and other Eastern European immigrants.

All along: American whites (including Irish and Polish) persecute blacks.

20th century: American whites (and many blacks!) fear and persecute latino immigrants.

Yesterday, on the day the USA first elects a black president, three states passed constitutional amendments making gays second-class citizens with fewer rights. In California, nearly 70% of blacks and hispanics voted for Proposition 8.

Yes, we just pass the fear and hate on down the line. Human mass psychology seems incapable of producing happiness without having an "outsider" group to loathe and persecute.

Honestly, I'm fucking thrilled about Obama, but I'm starting to see the "moving past racism" thing as just another turn of the hate wheel.

Right now the arrow is pointing at Gays and Muslims and atheists. I wonder who will be the target(s) in 2030?

Re:Racism? We just pass the hate along elsewhere

[superdave80]

three states passed constitutional amendments making gays second-class citizens with fewer rights.

Incorrect. Gays have the exact same marriage rights as everyone else. They can still marry someone of the opposite sex. Gays wanted a new right, i.e., marrying someone of the same sex. Now, I have no problem with gay marriage, but this argument that I've heard non-stop for months on TV is asinine.

And before someone tries to respond with a 'But they can't marry the person they want!', just realize that everyone has the exact same restrictions. Since I can't marry a 2nd wife, does that mean that polygamist are the new '2nd class citizen'?

Angry responses in 3... 2... 1...

Re:Strangest Thing

[petrus4]

Does this mean that most Americans simply vote they way they always have, regardless of what's happening around them?

No. It means your country's electoral process is rigged. There is no way in Hell that that was a tied election, in any way shape or form, whatsoever. Bush lost both of the elections which put him in power, and anyone with a brain was able to see it.

It's just that the Republican Party (and it's supporters) are so tenacious and gifted when it comes to electoral fraud, that the 3% who appeared to have changed their vote, are simply another 3% of the Democratic vote that was actually able to get through in order to be legitimately counted. Every possible dirty trick that can be used by the GOP to invalidate potential Democratic votes is used; from telling people the wrong day for the election, (as I read about being tried in a previous thread here) to making sure that absentee/disabled votes get diverted to /dev/null, to creating intimidation and holdups in voting queues. I've been reading about all of it happening.

The Republican Party needs to be destroyed, and another opposition party created which has both oversight and strict ethical rules for the conducting of elections.

Re:Two words

[andphi]

There's a difference between a child deciding not to eat his vegetables and a taxpayer distrusting the motives and competence of a bureaucracy (or favoring a strictly limited role for that bureaucracy).

The government should not stand in loco parentis. As soon as it does, it has usurped the rights of its citizens and of its constituent states. Through it, the citizens have diminished themselves by requiring of themselves as individuals less than they should require.

Let me say that again: Government agencies are not parents. The courts are not parents. The legislatures are not parents. They have no rights as parents nor any parental responsibilities to their citizens. They have no right to decide who will eat and who will not. They have no right to decide who will be healthy and who will not. Make no mistake. There are not enough tax dollars nor enough bureaucrats to provide everyone with the standard of living they should have. Private citizens can meet these needs - locally and specifically - but government overhead will lead to waste and to inequity in the meeting of the peoples' needs. That is not just, nor right, nor good.

If my child does not eat her vegetables, she does not get dessert or TV after dinner. She loses the opportunity to do something she would enjoy doing. Or she gets to chance to eat them again the next night. There is some direct consequence. That is parenting.

If I do not pay my taxes, I get thrown in jail. If I do not like the way my tax dollars are spent, I can lobby my representatives to have government spending changed. That is appropriate government of a free people. If, however, the government decides that it will use my money any way it wants and that it no longer needs to listen when I object, that is tyranny.

If the government takes my money and uses it for something I don't want it used for, that is a problem. If it takes my money and gives me something less valuable in return, that is theft. I as the citizen am the final arbiter of the value of my dollars. I would not tolerate that behavior from a fellow citizen, from an employer, or from a business. I cannot see why I should have to tolerate it from the government.

Let me be clear on something else. I pay my taxes. I have put money into the system. If I wanted to, I could probably find a way to dodge those taxes or to shelter my income. I don't. I obey the laws. I fund the government and I vote in elections, so I have every right to an opinion on how that money should be spent. Every year when the US Federal government gives citizens their tax refunds, it tacitly admits that our money is still ours even when Congress and the Executive branch control it and that it already takes more than is lawful from some citizens.

If my preference for individual liberty, charity, and responsibility makes me greedy and selfish, then I am most assuredly and very proudly selfish and greedy, but I am not under any circumstances, a child. The very insinuation is condescending, insulting, slanderous, and absurd.

I would be very grateful if the government did not insist on trying to be the parent I as an adult no longer need.

You know...

[dr00g911]

...after reading through all three thousand plus posts on this topic, admittedly with a filter of +2, I feel compelled to come in and toss away all my mod points to say "thanks" to the /.'ers here and abroad for having actual, real, intelligent discourse about this. The signal to noise ratio was one of the best I've seen on a thread here in years.

I'd been firmly in the Obama camp since he came out against lobbyists in an incredibly direct zero-tolerance fashion (for Washington, at least). None in my ground crew, none in my cabinet, not a dime from them. So, that made the sale for me personally very early in the primary season. Voting for someone who's been a civil rights lawyer, and is incredibly well-spoken... well, that's just a bonus. How cool would it be to have a quotable president in your lifetime? All those speeches you memorize in school? What if you were there for a speech your kids memorize?

I'm not at all proud of what my government, and by association, my country has turned into in the last decade. And as cheesy as it might sound to some people, I really do think we need constructive, positive dialog to move forward. Race, international relations, financial markets... everything. We've gotten in the habit of painting the world in stark shades of idealogical black and white -- on both sides.

Growing up in the US, we're taught to believe in a very idealized, edited version of American history, and America as a symbol -- it's the history that we really wished could be. Down to the specifics of the Lincoln presidency and on, very complex issues are taught to us in a very binary, black and white fashion that loses nuance completely. But it's part of who we are. And for the most part, it's who we want to be. It might be borderline fiction, but it's a noble aspiration.

Something struck me during one of the debates. Obama said "We need to learn how to disagree without being disagreeable." -- which sounds juvenile on the surface, but is a consummate truth at its core and sums up a major issue with the "you're either with me or against me" macho cowboy politic crap we've had to endure.

We've been stuck in gridlock, incapable of positive change for so long that I think we've forgotten how to affect it.

I must say that if the John McCain who made the incredibly eloquent, heartfelt concession speech last night had been the same man who had been campaigning, I think things would have been a lot closer. Well, and ditched his trainwreck running mate, but I didn't log in to burn the neocons in effigy.

If Obama can achieve even a fraction of what he's set about, it'll be positive change for this country and world in my very honest opinion. It's arrogant as an American to believe that my vote affects the entire world, but looking over the last eight years in particular, it's incredibly naïve to believe it doesn't. We're a conflicted people.

McCain may very well have been capable of leading us out of this incredibly dark, deep hole that we're in, but the Republican party as a whole (down to my state and local levels -- I'm in North Florida) has lost any shred of credibility in regard to the term "conservative" where it applies to fiscal and legislative issues, and has taken the moral "conservative" tack -- ie, let's roll back the clock and stand in the way of social progress to regard to people who aren't just like us. You want polarization? Base your politics about making people scared of folks who aren't just like you, and spend your time telling other adults how to live their lives.

The world isn't like that, the country isn't like that... shit, my block isn't like that. So how did we get in this place?

The core of my personal moral compass is that there's nothing on this planet more offensive than a closed mind.

The more we talk, the more we begin to understand each other. And that's a start, isn't it?

Lots of posts to read through

[reboot246]

I'm just reading through all these posts to find out who my friends are, and who my enemies may be. :)

Re:Lots of posts to read through

[Intrinsic]

Having a friends and enemies mentality is a reflection of what is really wrong with this country.
Its an illusion to make you think you are seperate from people. Dont buy into it. We are all connected one way or another.

Re:Two words

[geoffaus]

democratic socialist is a good thing - look at sweden, norway, finland & denmark - They have the highest living standards in the world.

Thank you, Americans

[faragon]

Hard times are coming for the world, but working hard, with joy and passion, we can build a great world to live in.

Kudos, american people, and thank you.

Re:Two words

[MightyYar]

Just that what seems important today may be an obscure, meaningless factoid 100 years from now.

You think that the fact that blacks have gone from a subclass to part of the ruling class in just 40 years is going to be a meaningless factoid?

Other then a feel-good pat on the back just how does being biracial insure that this man with a very, very thin resume will guide us through these difficult times?

I never claimed that, did I? I'm claiming that his racial background gives him a unique understanding about racial issues, and no more. I'm pretty sure that Obama or McCain would have been perfectly adequate to get us through the economic crisis, and it is ultimately a short-term problem anyway. Race, on the other hand, is a long-term problem that has scarred our country since it's founding. It's great to have an individual in the Presidency who can - just by existing - force us to confront some of our issues. It's even better that he can express our racial problems so eloquently.

Re:Two words

[MightyYar]

First let me state that I know full well that my restricting the discussion to the US narrows it by quite a bit... since we were discussing the US election I thought it was reasonable to restrict the discussion. While race is not a problem unique to the US, the US problem does have some unique aspects to it.

You mention that you are white, but there are so many different perspectives within this group that it would be meaningless for me to make any sort of comment about what white people think on a subject.

Whites are not so easily lumped together - I mean obviously at least 43% of the US white population is comfortable enough with a black man to elect him as president. And obviously there will be many, many overlapping opinions between blacks and whites... but the fact is that blacks 40 years ago did not have full civil rights. That scars one's psychology. And it's not as if the racism vaporized, so the scarring continues to this day. As a white man, racism rarely affects me. I encounter it quite often, but since only about 14% of people are black, the loss of opportunity there doesn't really affect me. As a result, I grew up not particularly sensitive to racism. Had I been black, my opportunities might have been far more restricted and my opinions would be far more shaped by racism.

This is something that _most_ blacks in the US have in common and _most_ whites in the US have in common, and it is constantly reflected in polls when they ask questions like "are racial conditions improving in the US". It's improving, but this is the current situation.

Can you think of any but the most contrived examples of something you could say that was representative of a white point of view?

Trust of police. White people generally trust police and see them as a good presence. Blacks tend to be more wary of police. Please note that I'm not saying that all blacks fear the police... it's just a tendency that correlates with race. There are many of these tendencies that together make up what I'm calling a "black point of view".

Another example would be slurs. You can drop the word "nigger" and it will almost universally cause a very unpleasant response among black people. Many (most?) whites won't like it, either - but it will really stir up some deep feelings among blacks. Compare this to whites... can you think of a single word that would get whites almost universally riled up? This is something that is shared by other minority groups which have been traditionally oppressed.

Another example is when some big heinous crime is reported, one of the first things through many (most?) black folks' minds is, "Oh, please don't be black." This simply doesn't happen in the white "community" - probably because we don't view ourselves as a community and from our perspective the actions of one of us do not reflect on the rest of us. However, what we don't consider is that this is not true from the perspective of other people/groups.

I'm saying that there is no supportable reason why someone must belong to the same ethnic group as someone else to share their perspective (and interests).

Oh, I would never claim that. I'm claiming to have an "in" on the black perspective and I'm white. I have this perspective because I'm married to a black woman and we had many, many really tough fights that were rooted in not understanding one another's perspective. Without months of really deep, contentious discussions with someone who I cared for deeply, I seriously doubt that I would have come to understand.

Election night was a different experience for me than for most white people. My wife first of all did not believe that a black man could win in the US. Even as they were calling states for Obama, she remained skeptical and kept asking me procedural ques

Re:Two words

[mcvos]

in re: 1., yes you can: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test#Biogeographical_ancestry. Of course, whether race means something apart from where you or your ancestors happened to come from, that is still open (*). But make no mistake, there absolutely is a technical concept of "biogeographical ancestry" which is very analogous to what is called race, and incorporating it into a model can increase the power and accuracy of clinical trials and disease screens. I would call this scientific.

But if you want too go that route, then Obama is definitely not of the same race as most Afro-Americans. As far as I know, the American slave population came mostly from western Africa, whereas Obama's dad is from Kenya. And I probably don't have to tell you that genetic diversity within Africa is much bigger than in the rest of the world put together.

So chances are the only "race"-related DNA sequences that Obama has in common with most other black Americans are the ones that passed through Europe.