Slashdot Mirror
Stretching Before Exercising Weakens Muscles
Khemisty writes "Back in grade school you were probably taught the importance of warm-up exercises, and it's likely you've continued with pretty much the same routine ever since. Science, however, has moved on. Researchers now believe that some of the more entrenched elements of many athletes' warm-up regimens are not only a waste of time but are actually bad for you. The old presumption that holding a stretch for 20 to 30 seconds — known as static stretching — primes muscles for a workout is dead wrong. It actually weakens them. In a recent study conducted at the University of Nevada, athletes generated less force from their leg muscles after static stretching than they did after not stretching at all. Other studies have found that this stretching decreases muscle strength by as much as 30 percent. Also, stretching one leg's muscles can reduce strength in the other leg as well, probably because the central nervous system rebels against the movements."
Back in the days when i was in school, warm-ups were there to avoid injuries, not to increase your performance.
By making your muscles weaker, the chance to get an injury decreases as well. People have proved over time (and quite many times) that you are able to hurt yourself with the strength of your muscles alone (ever seen those 100m sprinters falling like bricks on half way ?).
I'd tell you the chances of this story being a dupe, but you wouldn't like it.
Whenever I took swimming lessons as a kid, we stretched to avoid muscles cramping up in the middle of the water. I would take tired muscles over a leg cramp mid-stroke any day of the week.
Also when I lift, I would rather be a little weaker than having my arm freeze up as I lift a barbell over my head.
I don't think I ever had the impression that stretching makes me stronger, just protects me from cramps and overextending. Has this been proven/disproven? I'd be shocked to see so many years of sports medicine overturned by something that could be easily determined through statistics acquired by anyone working out.
My work here is dung.
We avoided PE, remember?
Stretching might be bad for performance, but it does reduce injury. 30% more power in your legs is useless when you snap your achilles tendon. That happened to a coworker who didn't stretch before playing ultimate. They had to dig it out of his calf and re-attach it.
I'll stretch, thanks.
-Peter
I always thought that other reasons for stretching include getting your heart rate up and getting more oxygenated blood throughout your body (so that, even though you can get more strength by not stretching, your heart isn't burdened unnecessarily). It's not so much for your muscles as it is for other parts of your body needed for the activity.
Not stretching causes injuries in sports like karate. Every time I show off and do something like kick over someones head without stretching I pull a groin muscle. If I stretch a bit first I have no injuries and can kick like that all day long if I keep using those muscles.
So they need to explain to those of us that discover over and over again, that not stretching causes pain and pulled muscles while stretching causes you to be able to move faster without injury.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
For those of you who don't RTFA, the summary could be misleading. TFA doesn't imply it's best to just jump straight into exercising. Rather you still need to do some warm-up activity (light jogging, jumping jacks, etc..), and then do dynamic stretches, rather than static stretches. What dynamic stretches you should do depends on your sport.
Furthermore, since this is slashdot, you all probably have terrible posture stemming from over-tight hip-flexors and internally rotated shoulders. Static stretching can be good to loosen the problem muscles. People who bother to stretch usually focus way to much on the hamstrings, when the hip flexors are much more likely to be the problem.
Based on what I've read, stretching/warm-up should be based on your sport.
For instance, I coach a hockey team, and any stretching is considered bad, as it loosens the tendons, and you are now more prone to injury because "things" can move too far...
We (the team) do simple warm-ups.
Most of the negative comment posters below obviously didn't take the time to read the linked article.
Some types of stretching are good, some are bad. The article explains the differences quite well and still recommends that some stretching takes place...
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
Take a piece of elastic material, test its strength at a certain length, then stretch it as much as you can, let it snap back and test it at the same length again. I'd expect it to provide less pulling power at that length after the stretch, even if it's an organic stretchy material that's attached to bones and can change it's actual stretchiness at will.
I'm a huge fan of the Dance Dance Revolution games. I've ranked highly in both tournaments that I was able to participate in.
One thing that I've noticed over time is that I usually play better on the second and third songs of my first set than I do for the rest of the night. I don't know if this is related to fatigue (the total lack thereof for the first few songs) or if the so-called muscle stiffness makes the actions more deliberate (and perhaps more precise as a result).
That said, if I'm going to play the most difficult songs (MaXXes, PSMO, etc) then I definitely need a good warmup. This almost never involves stretching.
Where did that come from? I've been taught since being a 6 year old hockey master that you should always do warm up, and then stretch max 10 seconds per muscle...
Right after exercise, you shouldn't stretch as your muscles should be full of blood, you don't want to rip them open – you should walk or do something light and go to sauna.
2-3 hrs after exercise you should do those 20-40 sec stretches.
Just recently I decided to see if stretching before my bar league vball game would help.. I ended up tweaking my knee by the end of the night. Just say no to stretching and yes to a light workout with weights before an event.
Since the link requires registration I can't actually RTFA. That said:
Even accepting at face value that stretching does weaken the muscle (which I do not without seeing the evidence), there are plenty of good reasons to stretch. Exercising without stretching will often limit your range of motion. This can have significant performance consequences as well as making one more prone to injury. Without stretching certain extreme movements (such as kicking high above your head - think dance or martial arts) are impossible for most people and they risk injury if they try. If you don't stretch, you might be stronger for a limited range of motion but you *will* be weaker at the extremes. It's a rare sport where you will not have to move at least some muscles through a full range of motion at some point.
For some good reading check out this FAQ about stretching. It's been around a while and not everything in it is gospel but it's a decent and approachable overview.
In related "news": A new study funded by General Foods and Monsanto finds that working out and eating whole foods are really bad for you. The dietitians and trainers involved in the study recommend that everyone eat as much aspartame and genetically modified food as possible. And now back to your regularly scheduled American Idol.
It may be true for athletes who look for strength. But if you stretch mainly for flexibility it is different.
And in yoga you look for flexibility and strength at the same time, which may be the best of both worlds.
And what about the contortionists?
The article does not talk against stretching in general. It suggests that before workout, the stretches should be dynamic and only after workout static.
For those who like to RTFA, there is another article.
If you're lifting, what you want to do is to weaken your muscles enough for them to rebuild stronger. So again, starting with a weaker muscle just means that it's easier to get to the point you want. Also, as has already been mentioned, the main point is that it decreases the chance of injury. In short, keep stretching!
I'm too lazy to look it up, but this isn't anything new. Stretching removes a muscles elasticity which will remove some of it's strength. When I was power lifting I never stretched prior to a big lift. Of course you warm up with progressively heavier weights, but you don't want to loosen the muscle when wanting to move maximal loads.
Another really bad thing for you is stretching cold muscles, because it can lead to a muscle tear.. You need to warm them up first prior to stretching, and this is why most fitness people will recommend that the most important time to stretch is post workout.
No shit sherlock; damage to microfibers from static stretching has been known for decades.
No real athletes stretch cold.
Whenever any physiology, biochemistry or medical topics are posted on slashdot I am reminded of the vast gulf between know-it-all jack offs, spouting yesterday's mainstream dogma, with knowledge entirely derived from google and someone with real expertise. It is measured in light years.
While holding forth on this, I also find it amusing the soi-disant skeptic attitude always affected by such twats. Whatever wikipedia tells them must be right even though they lack sufficient background data to even distinguish between shit or shinola.
Here is a hint: if you know so little about a topic that you have to google to make a comment then you should shut the fuck up.
Growing up playing soccer, BMX (racing and ramp tricks), and skateboarding (mostly halfpipe). Anytime I stretched my muscles would be loosy-goosy and out of control and I was in for an accident and pain. Learned never to stretch and now it appears I wasnt the only one that knew it was bad.
This article didn't talk at all about how warming up for a long day of posting on slashdot. . . err. . .I mean working!
Before heavy typing, I do a warm up known as "tickling the ivories."
You wiggle all of your fingers up and down rapidly and move your hands from side to side across your entire desk. I haven't had a SINGLE muscle pull in my fingers yet.
Warning: I have suffered a number of minor concussions from getting smacked in the back of the head by my boss for looking like such a tool. So I am not responsible for an injury you might sustain from doing this.
next month: "sudden increase in sports injuries".
Eggs are bad for you, whoops now they're good. Alcohol is bad for you, oh wait, red wine is good. And now we shouldn't stretch before exercising. I'll just stay put until they get around to discovering that exercising is bad for you and cathode rays are good for the skin. And Mountain Dew? They'll find out Yellow Dye #5 is the elixir of life.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Google "Pavel Tsatsouline" or just go to dragondoor.com. The Russians have known about stuff like this for decades. If you're looking to lose the nerd physique like I did, pickup some kettlebells from the site. Mine are worth their weight in gold.
Name...That...Autocomplete!
if you are trying to build muscle, then the whole point of exercise is to weaken your muscles. muscles are built by overexerting them, forcing the body to build them back up stronger
if however you are at a track meet, then you aren't just exercising, you are performing. in which case, you don't want your muscles weakened beforehand at all, you want maximum force from them
but then there is the issue of injury. i thought the point of stretching was to loosen the tendons, so as to limit injury from where your tendons are quickly snapped from a tightened state. and if you are at a track meet, you are placing yourself in a position where you can injure yourself easily by demanding maximum performance from your muscles
so the findings are interesting, but their application isn't so straightforward as the story summary suggest
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
The deleterious effect of static stretching on muscle power has been known for years.
It's not a matter of static stretching being "bad for you", what's "bad for you" depends on context. Static stretching is a developmental exercise. You wouldn't go to the weight room for serious strength training before a competition, and the same applies to static stretching.
Well coached athletes have been doing the kind of warm-up exercises described in the article for years, it's just that the word hasn't trickled down.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
When I was into body building (Beer and IT have since cured me of my vain ways) stretching happened after the workout to retain flexibility. Everyone knew stretching weakened you.
Agreed. In the UK in the nineties we were taught to warm up and then to hold a stretch for 8-10 seconds (it was really just 8 but 10 was taught as it was 'easier' to remember). This hasn't really changed in gym practice, although some sports coaching has embraced dynamic stretches. Personally I have tried dynamic stretching and found that it didn't go far enough. It possibly doesn't help that I swear by static stretching (after warming up and at the end of exercise) and am quite limber in many areas.
The 20+ second stretches were never taught, it was 16 post exercise.
Now I know there is a lot of evidence to suggest that pre-exercise stretches are not-necessary but personal preference. I personally would not do anything that puts my joints to the limit (such as kicking or dumbbell flys, etc) without stretching the relevant muscles beforehand. I guess the principle for me is that a static stretch, takes the muscle further than the acutal action and therefore loosens the hamstrings et al so they don't snap when used in anger.
The problem many people have is that they stretch when cold and that is simply counter productive or just plain dangerous.
If this were really happening, what would you think?
Basement-dwelling nerds rejoice worldwide at this long-overdue vindication of their muscle-enhancement regimen.
TFA is not saying that warm-ups are bad, it actually says that they're good. What it does say, is that just stretching is not a proper warm-up. A proper warm-up has light exercise to make you, well, warm. It also says that "stretch and hold" is bad, but exaggerated movements ("dynamic stretching") are good.
For what it's worth, as someone involved in the strength training community, this is not news to any serious athlete or coach. It's been known for years (decades?) that stretching before training generally decreases performance. And that, in fact, beyond achieving and maintaining the (usually rather small) amount of flexibility directly necessary for one's sport, stretching is not a productive use of training time.
By the way, geekdom and lifting weights are not incompatible! Being into writing code or whatever else doesn't mean you have to be a skinnyfat weakling!
i'm no exercise physiologist, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but i would think injury comes from tendons that are too tight
that is, if your tendon is tight, and you quickly snap it with a sudden muscle exertion, you damage them. meanwhile, if you have loose tendons, due to stretching beforehand, sudden snap muscle exertions would tend tonot damage the tendons as much
so i'm confused about your statement about loose tendons causing injury. i don't think injury is from "things" sloshing around, loose, but instead from "things" being yanked beyond their point of elasticity
again, just a layman's conception, so i stand to be corrected. or perhaps supported with a more scientifically sound articulation of what is exactly going on with the tendons and the potential for injury during sports exertions, and what role stretching beforehand plays with your potential for injury
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I've lost 15 pounds all by exercising less and eating only meat (fatty meat is a bonus), vegetables, nuts, some fruit, dairy (whole milk, cheese, lots of cream, etc). and cooking only in olive oil, coconut oil, etc. Of course, exercise is still good, but the people that do it 24/7 in a desperate bid to lose weight while still scarfing down refined sugars and highly processed vegetable oils are going to fail miserably. That is what has created this myth that losing weight is hard.
Weakens muscles? Good for us! Every RPG player knows that it's easier to train a lower stats.
Most of the negative comment posters below obviously didn't take the time to read the linked article.
You must be new here. I mean, seriously new.
For instance, I coach a hockey team, and any stretching is considered bad, as it loosens the tendons, and you are now more prone to injury because "things" can move too far...
While neither of us likely have scientific data to support us and each person is different, intuitively what you are saying makes little sense to me as an athlete. Baseball players used to believe they should never lift weights either because they believed it would hurt their performance. It was a myth of course but widely believed until fairly recently. A tighter muscle is *more* injury prone just like a weaker muscle is. The amount of stretching and warmup required varies by activity and individual but it's a rare individual that wouldn't benefit from at some well chosen stretching exercises.
In my experience as a college athlete (yes there are some of us on slashdot) when we did not stretch regularly and appropriately muscles tended to get pulled because we exceeded our range of motion. Though admittedly anecdotal, in over 20 years in my sport I've seen exceeding one's range of motion injuries happen far too often to believe there is nothing to it. The stretching needs for different sports are, well... different as you point out but but stretching is useful and has its place in most of them.
Limit stretching before weight training. The goal in weight training is to lift the most you can for a certain number of reps (and reps depends on your specific weight training goal). Stretching does limit that ability. However you definitely need to stretch after weight training otherwise your range of motion will decrease.
For aerobic exercises its like others have said, you don't stretch before exercise so much as warm up.
My wife told me static stretching reduces performance over a year ago. Since then I've stopped stretching before my weight lifting. Since then, I've been warming up for each lift by performing 12 reps with light weight and an extended range of motion. It's made a big difference.
So, tell the same scients to research about how not streching can cause muscle rupture. I never had this kind of problem but I've already saw some people having this problem. Be careful, you can get injuried.
I knew it! All those required "stretching" exercises in high-school PE are just designed to make you weaker and easier to control. Y'all laughed at me ... and pushed me around ... and beat me up ... and took my lunch money ... but I was right! Dammit!
I wonder if that is part of his success as a pitcher. He avoids the typical lengthy warmups that other pitchers go through and pitches "cold". I am not saying this is the reason for his greatness, but it may be a factor.
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
Any of you who exercise aren't allowed to come here and post.
Also.. WTF.. Slashdot news for nerds?? More "Attracting Jocks since the end of the election"
Slashdot seems to have gone really down hill a lot recently.. half of the news isn't even news, the other half of the half isn't technical, and the rest seems like people trying to promote their blog.
It has been over a decade since 30 second static stretches. Warming up means exercising the target muscle in a similar manner. Stretching is not a warm up, it is stretching; something you do after workouts.
...is just how ingrained the "stretching is good" mantra is into people's minds. Even when presented with evidence to the contrary people come in here saying it prevents injury, yet don't present anything other than anecdotal evidence to support that claim.
It's been driven so deeply into our minds after years of sports and PE that our brains just can't believe it.
It's true, static stretching shouldn't be done before a race. I've ran 2 marathons now, and countless other races, and through all my training runs and races, I've found that if I don't stretch beforehand, See how different stretches can be.
A friend of mine who worked out often ended up breaking his arm during an arm wrestling contest. His muscles were simply stronger than his bone.
Iron Man magazine has been saying that for years.
Ok, maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but it sounds like people are complaining that stretching before a work-out weakens you during the workout. Seems like stretching after the work-out would weaken you after the workout? Unless the 'workout' is a competition where it obviously matters, in other cases, does it matter in the end?
If the main concern is the final result of getting stronger and more fit over time, does it matter if you are weaker during the workout? I suppose it might, possibly, since maybe the stretching after a hard work out still leaves you stronger than stretching before and then doing a less-strenous workout?
an almost equal number of subjects developed lower-limb injuries (shin splints, stress fractures, etc.), regardless of whether they had performed static stretches before training sessions.
Stress fractures are a bone problem from repeated impacts, not a muscle problem and stretching has never been thought to help prevent stress fractures.
Shin splints are from an overused or too rapidly stretched muscle. I've had them myself. The recommended treatments in order are rest, anti-inflammatory treatment, good shoes, taping, and dynamic stretching exercises to help prevent recurrence. A generalized stretching routine will do nothing whatsoever to prevent shin splints. I can speak from personal experience that rest, advil and a new pair of shoes does FAR more to prevent shin splints than any stretching ever will. (it's hard to stretch the muscles involved anyway) Furthermore there is nothing in the "study" linked to indicate that any of those factors were controlled for in the study. Perhaps they were but it doesn't say so.
I don't think stretching only before exercise has been recommended in a long time. At best, I this this article might be looking at followup research taken to support a more modern practice. But the combination of increasingly intense exercise combined with periods of stretching has been around at least 15 years.
Holding a stretch for 20+ seconds was thought to be one of the better ways to cause a relatively permanent change in flexibility, and was something to be done more or less every day over a period of time long compared to 6 weeks. Hence the daily incremental change was small.
Physiotherapy tended to prefer PNF (proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation) for a stretching mechanism. There are some PNF stretches a single person can do, but in general it takes two people to do PNF stretching.
Some people thought that what the "warm-up" was doing was increasing the temperature of the muscles (and surrounding tissue), and so stretching in a hot tub might be good. The last I heard, stretching in a hot tub was not significantly better than stretching "cold". You actually need the exercise part of the "warm up". My preference was always to do stretching at the end of a long cardio session. Mind you, most of the flexibility I was concerned with governed the muscles and joints involved with running and jumping.
After having sprained both knees twice (3 different kinds of sprains), I no longer try to stretch the quadriceps or hamstrings. The hope was that the unstretched muscle could help to keep the knee tight. However, as I am getting older I don't perform like I used to. :-)
Not true. The science is settled.
static stretching is not for warming up before athletic performance - it is for increasing flexibility. Of course it would result in weaker muscle output - the goal of that kind of stretch is to slightly pull the muscle - similar in effect to muscle-tearing during a heavy weights workout - the torn/stretched muscle then should be given the opportunity to heal in it's new configuration.
Again, it's not supposed to generate more muscle power.
To properly warm up for a game or athletic performance, you want to stretch some but mostly do repetitive movement. Start small and build up to wider movements. Also for raw power, don't discount heart rate and oxygen uptake - being "up to speed" on heart is in many situations more important than warm muscles.
gigantino.tv - Heavy but weighs nothing.
I have played professionally for 10 years and I know the difference between stretching and no stretching. If people stretch a muscle for 30s they are idiots. You would stretch a muscle until you "feel good" something ~10s, max 15s.
Jog > Stretch > Start playing > Play Hard > Stretch.
By not stretching and jogging you risk damaging your muscles, joints and definitely ligaments.
This has been proven for 1000+ years, so although your muscle can be more powerful you need to see it on the long run.
Well you are right and it's a very well studied problem, proper breathing is very hard to do and if you want to breath lots of times per minute you have to be aware that it can lead to unconsciousness.
Breathing is a natural pain reliever, and relaxant.
This seems a little like saying: "thinking it through before posting lowers the chance of getting every last random rambling thought onto a forum". Sure, there are *less* words there, but they're more useful.
I think this entire article is a load of attention seeking BS, and I will not believe a word of it until I see a proper peer-reviewed research paper in a medical journal that debunks stretching.
IAACPT (I am a Certified Personal Trainer) and I can attest that this research is nothing new to those in the industry. It has been peer reviewed and proven. Like usual, the article summary seems to take an alarmists approach.
Static stretching triggers a protective physiological response called Autogenic Inhibition in which the muscles are inhibited from contracting (in other words, forced to relax). This inhibitory response, as the article states, is only temporary, but does prevent you from achieving maximum performance if you perform this stretching immediately before exercise. This is the muscle "weakening" they refer to.
Active and dynamic stretching techniques are the preferred methods of pre-activity stretching for populations that do not exhibit movement compensations requiring corrective exercise. Everyone else should save the static stretching for after exercise, when muscle inhibition is preferred.
--
Professional Fitness Trainer
MS, NASM, NFPT
Theo (the Killer) De Raadt likes to "hack, mountain bike, and climb mountains, in that order." who says you shouldn't be able to bench press 200Kg just because you are a nerd?
It's been a few years since I took those pre-med human physiology classes, so bare with me. Muscle is much like scar tissue. It doesn't grow unless it is damaged. Stretching doesn't loosen muscle fibers, it essentially breaks them, triggering a growth/increased strength response.
There is a growing body of evidence which suggests women athletes are more prone to knee injury than their male counterpart because estrogen tends to keep the tendons loose.
The article says nowhere that stretching before exercise weakens the muscles. It says that static stretching before exercise weakens. There are three main kinds of stretching: ballistic (always bad), dynamic (before training), static (after training).
Dynamic stretching involves using a movement like a lunge to bring blood, oxygen, and nutrients to the blood, as well as warmth, and loosen the ligaments and tendons. Static stretching is used to increase flexibility, and can be dangerous if done before warming up.
It has been long known that static stretches are ineffective before most forms of training. People sometimes seem to be wasting research grants on things that have absolutely no effect on the understanding of anything.
They are talking about static stretching, that is the routine of taking a pose to stretch a muscle and then hold it for a while. This is PART of the warm-up routine at time but NOT the same as a warm-up routine. So they say that PART of current warm-up routines is bad NOT that warming-up itself is bad.
Comprehensive reading, a skill sadly lacking in todays population.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Lol geeks talking about exercise.
I think the author of this article has completely missed the point of stretching. It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with increasing or decreasing your overall muscle strength. Additionally it has nothing to do with preventing injury or warming up either. In actuality stretching for humans is the same thing as frogs inflating their bellys. It is solely to attract the opposite sex.
Study after study has proven than men who stretch their forarms (also known as guns) in front of women have a greater likelyhood of mating. It's a known fact also that women who do yoga are more likely to excel in the reproductive arts.
A more interesting study would be the effect of biker shorts on your ability to determine potential danger (such as a speeding car) or how fanny packs have led to retardation and uneven hair growth (re. the mullet)
In recent years the advice I've been given, from people who pay more attention to stretching than I, is that the warm up is important to ensure that you don't stress the muscles before they are flexible enough. It isn't about stretching them out so much as making sure that the muscles, tendons, ligaments, are warm enough for exercise without risking a tear. This is different then streatching out the muscles which should be done after the exercise when they are at their warmest.
The purpose then of post-workout stretching is to increase flexibility or prevent the reduction in flexibility that some kinds of exercise (e.g. powerlifting) bring.
This makes sense to me as stretching cold muscles can damage and weaken them because they aren't ready to stretch while failing to stretch muscles causes them to seize up.
When it comes to doing martial arts classes and other exercises, I typically start with some deep breathing for 1-3 mins (preferably while walking to the class), then follow with a light 50-60% warm up. I have stretched cold before exercise in the past, but it kept causing injuries (I obviously stopped doing that). Then after I finish a class I'll cool down with some stretches while my muscles are warm - which I find I can stretch much further.
I'm over 30 now and have recently re-started capoeira (so pretty hard for work me), and these high effort classes are getting much harder since I've been out of training for a few years. Getting back in to it I've found (casual observation, no science here ;-) that after a combination of a deep breathing and a light warm up, my ability to train is increased substantially. I'm not exaggerating at all. We're talking the difference between having to stop constantly and feeling like passing out, and carrying on a class just at the edge of my comfort zone. Most of the article seems to back this experience up with some science, which I'm glad about :-)
From TFA: "Stretching muscles while moving, on the other hand, a technique known as dynamic stretching or dynamic warm-ups, increases power, flexibility and range of motion. Muscles in motion donâ(TM)t experience that insidious inhibitory response. They instead get what McHugh calls âoean excitatory messageâ to perform."
Most people aren't thought about after they're gone. "I wonder where Rob got the plutonium" is better than most get.
I used to have a daily (static) stretch routine that has lapsed since I hung up my skates, so I'm looking at this article with interest and trying to match them against my own observations and routine:
1. The purpose of the stretching routine was to allow the muscles to lengthen and reduce the chance of injury that wild flailing contortions on a slippery surface exposes you to.
TFA suggests that muscles are "weakened" (in terms of performance) but does not say that those muscles have been exposed to injury risk. Also, the parts of my body I'm protecting are the non-stretchy bits of ligament and tendon that may see too much load if muscles are too tight.
2. The routine was a set of systematic, static stretches held for a minimum of 30 seconds. But the whole set was always, always, always preceded by a light warmup: jogging, a few pushups, etc.
This is borne out by the article, which said (surprise!) that warmed up muscles work better. In fact, cold muscles are just hard to stretch, and you risk injuring yourself right there.
Dynamic stretching was something I was aware of at the time, but it came with a bit of a warning-- if you don't know what you're doing with exercises that stretch muscles that are under tension, or you're not in peak physical shape, you can hurt yourself pretty fast.
It does sound like there's been progress in this area... it was very hard to find information on "how to do effective dynamic stretching without breaking yourself" five years ago.
Now... as for the "ex" part of "ex-goalie": my first knee injury was an MCL tear on a game in early summer, when I wasn't in a regular stretch routine, when I hadn't followed my regimen properly before game. That emphasizes to me that not following a stretching routine was infinitely worse than a static stretching routine. I won't comment on whether what I did do was optimal-- I suspect it could have been improved.
(FWIW it wouldn't have saved me from knee injuries #2 and #3, patella subluxations that put me out of the sport for good. Turns out I have shallow trochlear grooves and sliding kneecaps are bad if you like butterfly goaltending and dislike obscene amounts of pain.)
So best I can say is that this article's pretty inconclusive about whether static stretching is actually bad. I believe that even if it cuts your muscle output, it's still having an effect in increasing your safe range of motion, and both (a) better than no stretching and (b) more easily managed for an amateur than some potentially aggressive dynamic stretching approaches.
I think this entire article is a load of attention seeking BS, and I will not believe a word of it until I see a proper peer-reviewed research paper in a medical journal that debunks stretching.
Geeze. I've noticed a certain hyper-skepticism among Slashdotters. Please note that the New York Times is not known for trumping up pseudoscience with no support in the literature.
Others have responded that the article is not "debunking stretching", just pointing out problems with certain kinds of stretching. And at least one other poster gave references, some of whom involved people interviewed for TFA. More specifically with respect to the studies mentioned in TFA:
The article cites Duane Knudson, a kinesiology professor at CSU. Peer reviewed research paper.
The article mentions a Las Vegas stretching study. Peer reviewed research paper.
The article mentions Malachy McHugh, a researcher in NYC. Peer reviewed research paper.
The article mentions a collegiate volleyball study. Peer reviewed research paper.
And so on.
Who are these losers...have they even stepped into a gym or martial arts dojo?
I am a pretty serious BB and also do major mA as hobby. I have to say when I was younger I could easily stay in splits for about 1 hour doing all sorts of kata, but then my priorities changed and
became more into strength training for wrestling and bouncing...so I became less flexible.
I don't regret it, and could easily get back to the wall of death to be able to drop into a splits again, however I don't need to touch my toes everyday...BUT....very big but...you do need some ...I have done this and felt it.
flexibility in order to avoid injuries. Not being supple enough means you compensate improperly
and things will twist and break. Yes it is a known fact that by starting a workout with stretching takes away from your strength and you will press less
I also know though that if I can press 300lbs with stretching, that this is my true weight, that going for 350lbs without stretching and being cold...is trying to hit a record, one time thing.
I never want to say that my norm is 350lbs. There is a great difference between training cold and training warmed up. I warm up with pre-exercises all the time, in fact I now consider them as part of my routine. Example is when I do 1000lbs leg press, I do major warm ups for my knees first as I don't believe in using knee wraps. I do full frontal extensions and back extensions for my quads and hamstrings...before anything else... this does take away from my strength, however I don't feel anything in my knees...whereas when I start with leg press right away, I sometimes can't even make it up to 1000lbs, as it hurts my joints too much.
Stretching is not only about warming up the muscle, but also getting tendon and extended muscular strength. These help you as well as regular muscular strength. You can use weights while stretching to know what I mean...body sculpting classes use this principle.
I will stop rambling, but just to say these studies are always done with people who don't train.
You want a really good opinion, go look up Bill Phillips on google for more on this!
I'd rather take a 10% hit to performance than snap a tendon, thanks.
Actually, yeah, oxygen causes cancer.
There's a graph of incidence of cancer against oxygen concentration. As you increase the oxygen percentage of the air, the rate of cancer goes up, and if you reduce it, it goes down. If you reduce it too far, you die.
However, if you plot the curve back to the 0% oxygen axis you find that there's a certain amount of cancer still there- that's the cancer due to other causes than oxygen.
But there's a gap- some of the cancer that you get due to the normal oxygen levels you need to live raises the cancer rate measurably.
So, it looks like oxygen causes cancer, and hence so does breathing!!!
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"It's about not damaging your muscles, not ripping tendons, and to help prevent cramping.
Interesting study.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
You know I'm actually impressed by these comments - When I saw this I thought there would be a bunch of ignorant or smart ass remarks but a lot of these comments make solid arguements. BTW I wonder what the increase in injuries will be by people who read that article and think they don't need to stretch anymore?
The purpose of stretching is to prevent injury. Also the type of activity one would do after stretching (distance running,...) typically would not require maximum strength. I think the science was dead-on stretch to prevent injury. if you want to maximize performance then just to a worm up to get the blood circulating
People want everything lined up into "good" and "bad" columns, and reality just isn't that simple. Your wine example is an excellent one-- it's good and bad. The fact that somebody found some cardioprotective benefits to moderate amounts of red wine in no way diminishes what alcohol does to your liver and so forth.
And excercise? Same deal. Moderate excercise has all sorts of benefits. But if you do it wrong or too much, you'll cause injuries, weaken your immune system, or even reduce athletic performance. And certain kinds of training aren't directly compatible-- you can't powerlift your way to a marthon victory, and mixing the two will likely result in lowered performance in both sports. But a well-tailored weight regimen is still probably beneficial to runners.
Frequently, the news only reports an isolated finding, like "wine is good for you," (when they actually mean "a small amount of wine reduces risk of a heart condition") and completely ignores the fact that the study is very specific and in no way contradicts existing studies indicating detrimental effects on other parts of the body.
Truth is, it's all freaking complicated, just like everything else in life. Nothing is just "good" or "bad," and you're going to have to do a lot of thinking to figure out how to optimize all the inputs for the results you want.
... and the difference between a warm-up (and what it is you are warming up to do) and an exercise.
I've been a competitive swimmer, surfer, runner, cyclist and hockey player and have always warmed up by going through the motions of the sport in which I was competing. I also know that I'm a slow-twitch muscle (endurance) type athlete and what my limitations are; especially now that I'm an old fart a few months shy of 64 but who still runs every other day and surfs as often as possible.
Stretching is an exercise which can damage muscles, tendons and joints and should be done with the supervision of someone who knows what they are doing.
While training Wing-Tsun & Muay Thai, we were taught to do synovial fluid exercises before anything else, slowly rotating joints. Only at the end of a training session, when we were already warmed up, would we then stretch. Even then, the stretching was slow and well regulated, for instance, the Sun Salutation. I must say, that every time I've tried to stretch while not warm, has always hurt me. Bout time the mass populace figured this out.
What about all of us skinny, underweight nerds?
Have gnu, will travel.
Well obviously anonymous coward nerds and moderator nerds have a lot more physical stamina than they have a SENSE OF HUMOR.
Grow up.
Free Martian Whores!
Since there's probably a lot of people who understand this article, allow me to translate:
Static stretch: +4 agility -1 strength. Decreases HP loss from "exercise" abilities. Lasts for 10 minutes.
Any questions?
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
I'm normally not against using animals for scientific experiments, but this sounds painful:
The article doesn't mention whether the lab bunnies were conscious, sedated, or dead while they had their legs ripped.
Only further the stereotype of socially inept, borderline Asperger's, difficult to deal with IT guy.
Kind of makes your post a little ironic.
I play soccer. When I started back up again in an adult league, I had intermittent issues with two injuries: rolled ankles and groin pulls. Part of the rolled ankle issue was sloppy running, I'm sure, and I've improved on that. However, I'm also pretty sure improving lower leg strength has helped, so the quoted excerpt seems good on that one.
Groin pulls, however, only happened in games where I didn't warm up properly and stretch. Note that I did say both, because I never distinguished between the two. If I had time to warm up, I had time to stretch, so I did both (typically about 20 seconds). Maybe it was the warm up, maybe it was stretching.
In fact, I'm convinced it's mostly neither, but rather that I started being more serious about stretching mid-week between games, so that overall I was more limber, and doing exercises that targeted the areas that tended to get hurt.
In Hatha Yoga you have the rule of always staying slightly below your limit. Otherwise the muscle gets hard. If you always stay below your limits you gain much more flexibility. I guess, what they call stretching is going to the limits immediately.
Call me crazy, but with all the 'roids I've pumped into this muscle machine of love, I want to be sure to get my value for dollar, if you know what I mean.
If my fibula happens to rip through the top of my knee caps, or expel my intestines on the contraction, tough cookies. No pain, no gain.
and it's likely you've continued with pretty much the same routine ever since
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Be gone from my sight or prepare to feel my flaming wraith!
This is news???? It's been known for as long as I can remember that stretching cold muscles is a path to injury. The usual advice is to warm up for a few minutes, then stretch, then get into whatever exercise you were going to do.
This has been taught for at least 15 years, if not much longer!
All these people railing against the article, but the article doesn't say warming up is bad for you. It says that doing static stretching -- that is the 20-30 second stretch-and-hold with no related warm-up activity -- is bad for you.
I was taught this about 4 years ago on my personal trainer qualification.
This can not be the first research to come to this conclusion.
Just because stretching potentially makes your muscles "weaker" doesn't mean stretching is always bad for you. It should still increase the elasticity of your muscles.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
When my dog has been laying down for a while and decides to get up he does a big ol static stretch of his legs. I'm pretty sure he didn't learn it in school, so there's probably a good reason for it. On the other hand, I stopped stretching before I run and instead just start with an easy jog and stretch after, and feel better the next day. But then I'm not preparing to zig zag full tilt all over creation after a squirrel.
As yet another martial artist, I agree, and while I know that many schools tend to lean towards lots of static stretching prior to the real workout, I do not. I limber up a bit so I won't injure anything, then do some stretching afterwards during my cool down.
What's this "fibres overlapping" rubbish? Muscles change shape because the cells change shape, not the fibres. Go read an anatomy book.
stretching...exercising...muscles...hey, somebody please post what these words mean!!! :-)
This should be old news, but seems to be arcane knowledge for most people.
I coach runners and have worked at a camp for HS XC runners about 20 years. Back in the day, we had a lot of overuse injuries over the course of a week of 2-3 daily runs, with lots of hills. About 16 years ago, Jim Wharton (aistretch.com) introduced us to his active-isolated stretching methods. The injury rate went down 95% that first year and has remained at the same level ever since. It is truly miraculous in helping prevent and rehabilitate injuries. I've been running for almost 40 years, and no longer suffer from the chronic injuries I would always incur as a youth.
1) Never hold a stretch near the limit of your range of motion for more than a second or two.
2) Manipulate the exercising limb with the muscle which is antagonistic to the one you're trying to stretch - if you contract a muscle, its antagonist will automatically relax, allowing a fuller stretch. You can assist slightly at the end of the stretch for a greater range of motion (we use ropes). This also strengthens the contracting muscle and helps the stretch be part of your active warmup.
3) Try to relax all other muscles so they don't interfere.
Proper stretching does indeed warm up your muscles, lubricates your joints, and keeps you healthy so you can train more and kick butt.
Thanks Jim, for teaching me the fountain of youth and helping thousands of athletes succeed.
hi!
"Also, stretching one leg's muscles can reduce strength in the other leg as well, probably because the central nervous system rebels against the movements."
No, it is because the Golgi Tendon Organs run out of sodium and can no longer perform their function as well.
I just want to point out that many of the comments on this story are talking about 2 different things when they discuss "warming up" and "stretching".
1- Warming up merely consists of performing the movements (or similar movements) that you will do during your routine, in a slower and less-forceful way, in order to "warm" or ready the muscle for the workout. The purpose of warming up is to prevent cramping and potential tearing of the muscle or tendons. For example, in my swim routine, I typically "warm-up" by swimming a mile at a slow light pace - gradually increasing the length of my stroke to ease my shoulders into the full stroke.
2- Stretching is done to prevent inflammation of the muscle usually after a workout and between workouts. In fact, it has been known for years (not only recently) that you should NOT stretch a "cold" muscle as you risk injuring the muscle. Even a microscopic tear could lead to inflammation and greater injury during the workout. I want to point out that if I stretch my shoulders and latissimus dorsi before my swim routine (which sometimes consists of about 3 miles) my muscles will fatigue about 30% sooner than if I don't stretch. However, I can achieve the same level of elasticity using the warmup described above (1) without fatiguing at all. I agree 100% with the findings of the study.
For the record, the article is about stretching, and not about warming up.
When I was (more-or-less slowly) running marathons a QUARTER CENTURY AGO, it was clear on a personal level that literally "loosening up" before a run was a detrimental cause of pain and soreness. I was fortunate to attend a running "boot camp" of sorts for corporate fitness sloggers and they lined up a world-record 50K ultrarunner among the weekly speakers. She confirmed my suspicions by stating emphatically that she _never_ stretched before a run and always stretched _after_ a run.
Since then I have suspected that the limits are defined and refined in endurance sport and a lot of superstition is allowed to continue in coaching team sports because the results are more difficult to determine whether it has been in regard to heat training, electrolyte balance or stretching.
I said that "working elements of the muscle fibers are laid against each other in pairs with an intervening layer between"; I was attempting to be general. The specifics: Muscle cells contain filaments of two protein types, actin and myosin, which slide past each other during contraction. After contraction, ATP (from the mitochondria) relaxes the filaments and they return to their normal positions. The overlapping region betwen the two proteins behaves as I described; the more overlap there is, the more power can be generated. When the muscle fiber (which is a considerably more macro structure than the cells that make it up) is extended, the overlap of the actin and myosin filaments in the many cells that make up the fiber is lesser, and lesser power can be generated.
I know how the system works, and my description was accurate — just not very specific. As you will find out if you read up on muscle anatomy. :)
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Holy crap, I thought, I've never seen so many consecutive +5 mods in my life! Then I suddenly realized that for reasons unknown to me, the comments browsing filter (which I never use) is on and set to the max.
Oh well, it was fun while it lasted...
This is from 1999.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/567584.stm
The only reason it decreases "power" is because you are inputting the same amount over a longer distance because your muscle is stretched. But I guess it is about the bigger and not the better.
But I can't be asked to teach you people.. however I will point out that many people are not super-atheletes and "Strength" from muscles is not the most important thing in the functional health. Most times its hypomobility and muscles that are contracted for extended periods of time.
Stretches.. thus, are of benefit to most people. But again, the manner and intensity of the stretch is important. I normally go for 15 second static stretches that are not intense enough to hurt in two sets (left-right, left-right). Given a normal person, all you really need to be aiming for is to lengthen muscle that at rest is seen to have been shortened and challenge your joints to regularly move to its anatomical end of range in a controlled manner.
fuck you!
most people seem to have noticed that they and others end up getting more injuries while "warming up" than they do in the athletic feat itself.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.