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Happy 25th, Macintosh!

bradgoodman writes to tell us that tomorrow will mark the 25th anniversary of the first Macintosh, debuting just 2 days after the famous Super Bowl XVIII commercial. "'The Macintosh demonstrated that it was possible and profitable to create a machine to be used by millions and millions of people,' said Alex Soojung-Kim Pang, research director for the Institute for the Future, a Palo Alto, California, think tank, and chief force behind 'Making the Macintosh: Technology and Culture in Silicon Valley,' an online historical exhibit. 'The gold standard now for personal electronics is, "Is it easy enough for my grandmother to use it?" People on the Macintosh project were the first people to talk about a product in that way.'"

296 comments

  1. Not the first... by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

    'The gold standard now for personal electronics is, "Is it easy enough for my grandmother to use it?" People on the Macintosh project were the first people to talk about a product in that way.'"

    And those slogan stealing bastards are Sears. Always trying to piggyback on Apple innovation...

    1. Re:Not the first... by dimeglio · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yep, I was one of those who bought one during the first 100 days. All I remember was how painful it was swapping 3.5" floppies in and out of that computer. It was easy but painful. The Apple Lisa was much better and had a hard disk (that amazing 5mb Apple Profile). Sadly it was 3-4 times the price.

      --
      Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
    2. Re:Not the first... by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pioneers get the arrows, settlers get the land, is the operating phrase of most major technology companies. Apple did not invent the mp3 player, but they most definitely settled it. They did not invent postscript, but they definitely established it. And they did not invent the GUI but they settled it.

      But taken as a whole, the mac was really a pioneering achievement, When you consider what was available at the time. Sure Xerox had their star systems, people used floppies and so on. But to put it all together in (relatively) cheap system that did not have a command line at all and sell it to consumers was a huge risk. And one that took a lot of innovations to make all work together. It had an original OS. It used software driven instruments to do everything (apple desktop bus. disk timing, character generators, etc...)

      a huge leap and worthy of the boldness of that ad.

      --
      Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    3. Re:Not the first... by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Pioneers get the arrows, settlers get the land, is the operating phrase of most major technology companies. ... And they did not invent the GUI but they settled it.

      As did many other companies. Like it or not though, 95% or so of that land is "settled" by one particular other company... I'm not sure this is a good analogy :)

    4. Re:Not the first... by lymond01 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Clearly you never had to wait for your dad to shell out $400 for a 5.25" floppy drive upgrade on your Commodore 64 because your cassette drive would just take FOREVER to load Temple of Apshai (which, until this very post some 25 years later -- Christ... -- I thought was spelled Aphsai).

    5. Re:Not the first... by I_want_information · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Clearly you never had to wait for your dad to shell out $400 for a 5.25" floppy drive upgrade on your Commodore 64 because your cassette drive would just take FOREVER to load Temple of Apshai (which, until this very post some 25 years later -- Christ... -- I thought was spelled Aphsai).

      OMFG! I had that game and loved it!!!

      Remember loading programs via cassette tape?

    6. Re:Not the first... by Draek · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      But taken as a whole, the mac was really a pioneering achievement,

      And the IBM PC with MS-DOS settled it ;)

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    7. Re:Not the first... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      I'm glad you brought that up, because if you want to speak of a computer which "demonstrated that it was possible and profitable to create a machine to be used by millions and millions of people,' the Commodore 64 certainly qualifies at 30 million units sold. For every Mac sold, Commodore sold ~20 units of the C64.

      See bottom of page: http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/total-share.ars/5

      One could also argue Atari's VCS/2600 did its fair share to make a "machine to be used by millions and millions of people". It sold around 40 million units, and introduced them to the idea of videogaming - which eventually led to computer gaming (the main reason people bought C64s).

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    8. Re:Not the first... by c6gunner · · Score: 2, Funny

      Remember loading programs via cassette tape?

      I know that at this point, "RTFA" has become a running joke ... but you're the first person I've seen who hasn't even bothered to read the comment which he's replying to! Way to set a new bar for other slashdotters to meet ...

    9. Re:Not the first... by Tim+Browse · · Score: 4, Funny

      I know that at this point, "RTFA" has become a running joke ... but you're the first person I've seen who hasn't even bothered to read the comment which he's replying to! Way to set a new bar for other slashdotters to meet ...

      The really funny part is that he didn't even read the comment which he was replying to!

    10. Re:Not the first... by goombah99 · · Score: 1

      But taken as a whole, the mac was really a pioneering achievement,

      And the IBM PC with MS-DOS settled it ;)

      More accurately, an IBM PC with windows 3 is what settled it. Up till then DOS was not really a full time gui. And prior to windows 3, windows was really just Dos is a dress.

      --
      Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    11. Re:Not the first... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, I was one of those who bought one during the first 100 days. All I remember was how painful it was swapping 3.5" floppies in and out of that computer. It was easy but painful. The Apple Lisa was much better and had a hard disk (that amazing 5mb Apple Profile). Sadly it was 3-4 times the price.

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    12. Re:Not the first... by I_want_information · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah, I can be a dumbass... surely not the first.

    13. Re:Not the first... by againjj · · Score: 1

      People immediately realized that you wanted to have a second floppy drive, but it was not easy to get one until Apple realized how important they were. The workaround, of course, was to have a copy of the system on every floppy, which was not actually that bad, since the system was small compared to the floppy capacity. Then you use the option-double-click to switch the system to the next floppy when starting an application.

  2. Yeah but... by Skyppey · · Score: 1

    Yeah but, is it easy enough for Windows users to use it?

    1. Re:Yeah but... by turgid · · Score: 0

      You Microsoft shills are always looking for the next conspiracy. Go to Sheffield.

    2. Re:Yeah but... by I_want_information · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Yeah but, is it easy enough for Windows users to use it?

      Unfortunately, it's too easy for Windows users, who are so accustomed to absolute crap that, when they encounter a Mac, simply don't know what to do.

    3. Re:Yeah but... by AppleOSuX · · Score: 1

      That is completely false.

      I'm sitting in front of a Macbook Pro right now and I can honestly say that not being able to do things like "drag a file into a window being shown in Expose" hurts. Especially since it's so easy to do in Windows (drag file to taskbar item then to the window).

      Also, the OSuX has too many two-handed keyboard shortcuts where the equivalent in Windows is a one-handed shortcut.

      In short, the OSuX.

    4. Re:Yeah but... by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      That is completely false.

      I'm sitting in front of a Macbook Pro right now and I can honestly say that not being able to do things like "drag a file into a window being shown in Expose" hurts. Especially since it's so easy to do in Windows (drag file to taskbar item then to the window).

      Also, the OSuX has too many two-handed keyboard shortcuts where the equivalent in Windows is a one-handed shortcut.

      In short, the OSuX.

      Works great when you don't have your head up your ass.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    5. Re:Yeah but... by AppleOSuX · · Score: 1

      Oh man, you really got me there. Your post was filled with so much knowledge, I bow down to you sir.

      Go ahead, try dragging a file and then activating expose and dropping the file into a TextEdit window. Did it work? Nope. But you go on with your bad self. Those insults are really making me look stupid.

    6. Re:Yeah but... by AppleOSuX · · Score: 1

      BTW, you can't _just_ drop the file into the Expose'd window. You have to sit there and wait a full SECOND for the window to get focus. Yeah, that's real good for the old work flow.

      Sorry, it's the Apple developers that have their head up their collective asses not me.

    7. Re:Yeah but... by Lars+T. · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      And in Windows, you have to drag file to taskbar item and then hunt down the fucking window after that pops up . Yeah, that is so much faster. Sure about the position of your head? Doesn't matter, no brain inside anyway.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    8. Re:Yeah but... by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      Yeah, dragging a file onto a Editor window and getting a fucking icon is the epitome of user interface design.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    9. Re:Yeah but... by AppleOSuX · · Score: 1

      Yeah Expose is so great that it shows every fucking window but in a different spot and a different size depending on what you've moved. Brilliant.

      Point and match. Flamebait.

    10. Re:Yeah but... by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that everything on the Taskbar always stays in the same place? In case you think so - brrrst, wrong. IOW its worse, because you can not depend on the behavior - well, that's not quite true because that is to be expected from Microsoft products

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  3. Steve? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And where's Steve Jobs when you need him, dammit!

  4. Mac World by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm a PC. I've always been a PC at heart.

    Not like the rest, the others. Everyone around me. I was at odds with my society and knew it early since birth. Unlike them, I did not "Think Different!"--the mantra of the Macs around me, the phrase on all the billboards in the city that served as a reminder to its citizenry. Sameness pervaded the essence of my being and no amount of self-conditioning I did could change that. Eventually, I gave up and isolated myself emotionally from society.

    I gaze at the faces going by, the white earphones contrasting their black turtlenecks, connecting their ears to their pockets, their blank faces engrossed in hip Indie rock music and various garage bands. I envied them for their perfection against my flaws and my compulsive nature to expand, to burden my life with troubles instead of remaining, like them, simple and easy to deal with. The grandest of virtues, simplicity... the philosophy by our loyal benefactor Steve Jobs, who descended from the heavens, creating the Earth, the iron, the wind and the rain. Steve Jobs, who defined the parameters of existence, the one who set about the patterns of reality, the constants, the variables. He who made gravity, electromagnetic energy, and shaped atomic structures and brought forth motion. From these things, he crafted the elements, processed them, refined them, and from these things engineered Apple products through the purity of his mind. Each Apple product was individually crafted by his own hands with the programming code used to run each device having being compiled in his brain and uploaded to each device telepathically, breathing life and perfection into each and every unit.

    Except, it seems, for me, for I was not among the many. I was a PC. They were Macs. I've always been a cold, stiff person. I got by, disguising myself by keeping my non-Ipod music player safely out of sight, which I use because of my depraved nature demanding more functionality than the simple and easy-to-use Ipods have to offer... In the safety of my own home, behind locked doors, I ran a Forbidden, a contraband computer from more depraved, earlier days that was not given the love and blessing of being birthed by Steve Jobs. I dual booted, out of the great sin of curiosity. Curiosity, a shameful value of a PC, as curiosity has no place where simplicity matters most. I used two of the great unutterable blasphemies--something called "Windows Vista" and something else called "Linux." Although, as I mentioned before, although my tendency to be a PC and towards conformity has always been inherent to me, I was truly transformed when I found these old things in a hidden cache of computer parts predating The Purging. Perhaps the greatest sin of all, the single evil that, if discovered, would damn me forever, was the fact that my mouse had more than one button.

    As I walked on among the Macs on the streets, passing the Starbuckses as I went along, I wondered how it all came to this. I glanced at The Holy Marks on the foreheads as the people wandered down the streets, the Bitten Apple tattooed on all our of us at birth, and wondered if, perhaps, there could be something more to life. But again, this was a PC's thought, and not, like everyone elses', a Mac's. We were to hold ourselves to the philosophy of Steve Jobs--so as his products were designed for idiots, so too were we to be idiots. But I was not a Mac--I was not an idiot. I was simply too complicated to be a worthwhile person.

    Nature called. I found a nearby public iPoo--squeaky clean and sparkly white, things weren't all bad--and let myself go, expelling the waste that had accumulated inside me. After relieving myself and committing the overly-complicated and thus illegal act of wiping my ass (I did not flush as iPoos, designed to be idiot-proof, did not flush) I left and once again wandered the streets aimlessly, hoping to find some meaning in a world where I simply did not belong, a world where if my true nature was discovered, I would be endlessly persecuted by smug, self-righteous sons of bitches.

    1. Re:Mac World by camperdave · · Score: 2, Funny
      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    2. Re:Mac World by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 0, Troll

      a world where if my true nature was discovered, I would be endlessly persecuted by smug, self-righteous sons of bitches

      Your post is one of the most smug, self-righteous things I've ever read on Slashdot. And that's saying something.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    3. Re:Mac World by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      I'm a PC. I've always been a PC at heart.

      And it was funny, in a rather pointless way, when you posted it the first time. Now the joke is getting old.

    4. Re:Mac World by LoadWB · · Score: 1

      You think so? Wait until us Amiga users start littering this place!

    5. Re:Mac World by Idiomatick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Man your karma is going to take a massive hit ... getting dozens of +1funny from humans and -1troll from the macs. Kudos

    6. Re:Mac World by Tokerat · · Score: 1

      How can you mod this as Troll? The only reason most Mac users ever act smug is because we're sick and tired of Windows people telling us that we're idiots who need to buy "real" computers.

      Think about how you act when a Microsoft fanboy tries telling you something foolish like "Linux doesn't even have any games, and that's the REAL test of an OS!"...

      --
      CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
    7. Re:Mac World by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Aside from being copypasta, the pasted text has everything backwards. It's Windows which was designed for narrow-minded idiots. The Mac was always about expanding possibilities, doing new and different things.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    8. Re:Mac World by idontgno · · Score: 1

      And that's what makes it a marvelously effective troll. Only the bigots can detect the substitution*. (As a notable corollary, only the bigots care.) The rest of us lol a bit, mostly at the joke, but juuuust a little at the bigots slapfighting each other. ("No, you're a tard, Mac!" "No, you're a tard, PC!")

      *"substitution" == pretending the joke is supposed to be on the other guys. In truth, it's on both of you.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    9. Re:Mac World by dangitman · · Score: 1

      The rest of us lol a bit, mostly at the joke, but juuuust a little at the bigots slapfighting each other. ("No, you're a tard, Mac!" "No, you're a tard, PC!")

      Yeah, I guess I got a little fished in there... although I knew at the time I was just responding to a pointless troll. I guess what I'd like is more slashdot discussions that don't require the debunking of tired myths before we can get to the interesting discussion.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    10. Re:Mac World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I pity you.

    11. Re:Mac World by I_want_information · · Score: 1

      How can you mod this as Troll? The only reason most Mac users ever act smug is because we're sick and tired of Windows people telling us that we're idiots who need to buy "real" computers.

      Amen brother! (or sister).

    12. Re:Mac World by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm guessing brother.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    13. Re:Mac World by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, my choice of stylish, premium priced consumer electronics proves I am better than the hoi polloi too.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    14. Re:Mac World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the joke is precisely what it appears to be: making fun of pretentious Apple fanatics. In reality it doesn't matter what OS you use so long as it suits your purpose, but when you debate the relative pros and cons of apple products versus anything else, you're going to get marked down if you even imply the big A's products are overhyped and, at times, overpriced.

      You don't see very many Windows zealots, and Linux evangelists are often still capable of pointing out Linux's own flaws. When it comes to Apple products, hey, the Ipod is a great device because of it's features--point out it lacks a lot of features that other, lower-priced mp3 players have, and suddenly that's a great boon because it's "simpler" to use.

      The Apple fanboy is like the Nintendo Internet Warrior in this regard. You know the type, the type who responds angrily when you so much as criticize Nintendo's lack of good third party support (this has been a complaint for years, not much has changed) or the lack of quality titles on the Wii. They do exist, and so does the Apple fanboy.

      Ipod users are generally like Windows users in the regard that they simply don't know about the alternatives. One difference, though, is that there aren't hordes of Windows users proclaiming that Window's popularity is due almost entirely to its features and qualities. Talking with people about mp3 players most that have, say, Ipod nanos typically got them because they just didn't know what else was on the market. Generally they weren't fans of iTunes and thought some of the features of other, common mp3 players were cool. Granted, if you like iTunes then Ipods may be a good idea, and Ipods do have some features other mp3 players don't have such as gapless playback. But the Applevangelists will proclaim the Ipods success is not due to marketing but because of it having either lots of features or not as many features, depending on which argument is convenient. Any feature the Ipod has is great, fantastic, amazing, so on and so forth, while any other feature other MP3 players have, such as FM tuners or expandibility through sdhc cards are just cruft and make it harder to use (a ridiculous accusation, but they must defend Apple at all costs) I think, though, if someone steps back and analyzes the pros and cons of mp3 players on the market a person honest with themselves will probably make a selection other than the Ipod. I suspect that actual act of owning an Ipod (and this potentially applies to many other products, from other companies, too) makes the owner value the product and its qualities more than they would if they didn't own it and let it grow on them. Buying something because of the brand name is stupid, whether it's t-shirts or music players.

      Each OS will obviously have its pros and cons. Linux is rough around the edges and one wrong command in root can destroy all your data. Windows (yes, Vista is a good OS too, with many of its own great qualities) . And a lot of people apparently have their reasons for choosing Macs for video editing (I don't edit videos) and sometimes even Linux users set up their desktops to emulate desktop features of Mac OSX. But the dyed-in-the-black-turtleneck-wool Apple fans that describe themselves as being "part of the Mac community" and buying whatever Apple products come out simply because it's an Apple product are rather unique.

      Actually, this isn't even a point about operating systems. I only mention operating system a little. It's the Apple worship this is about. When people start fawning over Microsoft products the same way (please shoot me if they do) then you'll see a story about a dystopian Microsoft future.

      (I'm willing to let Linux and *BSD etc guys have more of a pass because Linux and the *BSD guys are not centered around for-profit companies; thus the projects truly have community backing them)

    15. Re:Mac World by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      The only reason most Mac users ever act smug is because we're sick and tired of Windows people telling us that we're idiots who need to buy "real" computers.

      Have you even watched the commercials Apple themselves put out? Worst part is that Macs are actually PCs themselves.

      Call me back when people start putting Microsoft stickers on the back of their goddamn cars.

    16. Re:Mac World by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, the joke is precisely what it appears to be: making fun of pretentious Apple fanatics. In reality it doesn't matter what OS you use so long as it suits your purpose, but when you debate the relative pros and cons of apple products versus anything else, you're going to get marked down if you even imply the big A's products are overhyped and, at times, overpriced.

      You don't see very many Windows zealots, and Linux evangelists are often still capable of pointing out Linux's own flaws. When it comes to Apple products, hey, the Ipod is a great device because of it's features--point out it lacks a lot of features that other, lower-priced mp3 players have, and suddenly that's a great boon because it's "simpler" to use.

      The Apple fanboy is like the Nintendo Internet Warrior in this regard. You know the type, the type who responds angrily when you so much as criticize Nintendo's lack of good third party support (this has been a complaint for years, not much has changed) or the lack of quality titles on the Wii. They do exist, and so does the Apple fanboy.

      Ipod users are generally like Windows users in the regard that they simply don't know about the alternatives. One difference, though, is that there aren't hordes of Windows users proclaiming that Window's popularity is due almost entirely to its features and qualities. Talking with people about mp3 players most that have, say, Ipod nanos typically got them because they just didn't know what else was on the market. Generally they weren't fans of iTunes and thought some of the features of other, common mp3 players were cool. Granted, if you like iTunes then Ipods may be a good idea, and Ipods do have some features other mp3 players don't have such as gapless playback. But the Applevangelists will proclaim the Ipods success is not due to marketing but because of it having either lots of features or not as many features, depending on which argument is convenient. Any feature the Ipod has is great, fantastic, amazing, so on and so forth, while any other feature other MP3 players have, such as FM tuners or expandibility through sdhc cards are just cruft and make it harder to use (a ridiculous accusation, but they must defend Apple at all costs) I think, though, if someone steps back and analyzes the pros and cons of mp3 players on the market a person honest with themselves will probably make a selection other than the Ipod. I suspect that actual act of owning an Ipod (and this potentially applies to many other products, from other companies, too) makes the owner value the product and its qualities more than they would if they didn't own it and let it grow on them. Buying something because of the brand name is stupid, whether it's t-shirts or music players.

      Each OS will obviously have its pros and cons. Linux is rough around the edges and one wrong command in root can destroy all your data. Windows (yes, Vista is a good OS too, with many of its own great qualities) . And a lot of people apparently have their reasons for choosing Macs for video editing (I don't edit videos) and sometimes even Linux users set up their desktops to emulate desktop features of Mac OSX. But the dyed-in-the-black-turtleneck-wool Apple fans that describe themselves as being "part of the Mac community" and buying whatever Apple products come out simply because it's an Apple product are rather unique.

      Actually, this isn't even a point about operating systems. I only mention operating system a little. It's the Apple worship this is about. When people start fawning over Microsoft products the same way (please shoot me if they do) then you'll see a story about a dystopian Microsoft future.

      (I'm willing to let Linux and *BSD etc guys have more of a pass because Linux and the *BSD guys are not centered around for-profit companies; thus the projects truly have community backing them)

    17. Re:Mac World by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      It's worth it. I hope you enjoyed the story.

      I don't even really bash MacOSX... All the jokes about Mac products in it are mockeries of some of the silly things Apple fanboys on slashdot and elsewhere have said. As I've said elsewhere, you point out lack of features the Ipod has and instead of them admitting "yeah, it'd be nice if the Ipod had those features" instead they declare its lack of features to be a good thing because it might mean that if someone looked at features instead of how hip Ipods made you look someone might decide that the Ipod was an inferior product. Go figure.

    18. Re:Mac World by dangitman · · Score: 1

      You're not understanding the point. It's not about style, Apple worship or ego. It's about history. Apple did groundbreaking things, and challenged conventional wisdoms about computers and software. It has absolutely not been about conformity or lack of imagination. Why do you think things like Photoshop and desktop publishing took off first on the Mac? Other platforms were largely about conventional business software, not reimagining the possibilities.Windows was basically a "me too" effort, and Microsoft definitely pushed conformity, and fear of the different.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    19. Re:Mac World by dangitman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of course, your rants about uncritical Apple worship are nothing but bullshit. Apple fans can be aggressively critical of Apple, and they aren't conformists. The problem is that on forums like this, so many people spout utter lies and bullshit, that it needs to be debunked before we can get to the constructive and rational criticisms. Posts like yours do nothing but drive the discourse away from that and towards the "zealotry" you supposedly despise. If you actually made reasonable accusations and criticisms, then you'd find plenty of Apple fans who would agree with you. But I guess I'm just responding to a troll again. Sigh.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    20. Re:Mac World by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      That fact that you're so upset over this is a pretty big sign you're an Apple zealot.

      I'm sure all the jokes about people obsessed with Apple are just by devious, bigoted men and women intent on massacring Applevangelists like the Nazis gassed jews. You poor oppressed thing.

    21. Re:Mac World by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Wow. Those are probably the worst adverts ever. The take home messages from each one:
      1. Linux has 30 million users, so about 0.3% of the total market. Look at Linux! It's relevant! Oh and it's been around for 'a long time' but still only made it to 0.3%. Yay.
      2. Linux UI changes every few minutes, Windows will stay the same for 6-7 years. Switch to Linux (if you like retraining costs every few months)!
      3. Using Linux is really embarrassing. Don't admit it in public.

      Not really sure what they were trying to say here, but whatever it was they failed miserably. Mind you, when they started by designing an advert that copied someone else's they were on the road to failure already...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    22. Re:Mac World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the whole "lack of ipod functionality" argument was made moot by the iPod Touch.

    23. Re:Mac World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait, 30m users = 0.3 %. The total market is 10b users?

    24. Re:Mac World by Lars+T. · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      That fact that you're so upset over this is a pretty big sign you're an Apple zealot.

      I'm sure all the jokes about people obsessed with Apple are just by devious, bigoted men and women intent on massacring Applevangelists like the Nazis gassed jews. You poor oppressed thing.

      The fact that you spend endless time to write and to defend your little joke is a pretty big sign you have no life. Maybe you should get a Mac?

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    25. Re:Mac World by I_want_information · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing brother.

      Okay...

    26. Re:Mac World by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 1

      Copy and paste.

    27. Re:Mac World by AppleOSuX · · Score: 1

      Ummm, you talked about it just as much as he did so that was a pretty pathetic come-back if you ask me.

    28. Re:Mac World by Lars+T. · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I spend 30 seconds to write a reply, WMF sockpuppet.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    29. Re:Mac World by AppleOSuX · · Score: 1

      "Apple did groundbreaking things, and challenged conventional wisdoms about computers and software"

      Oh puhleeeeaze. And Microsoft didn't? They were the ones that popularized an OS that ran on commodity hardware. If we'd gotten stuck with the Apple way, we have _absolutely_ no choice in anything.

      Microsoft also revolutionized the rapid development of software with things like Visual Basic and COM.

      Another small thing that Microsoft did was to popularize the mouse wheel. That's right.

      "Why do you think things like Photoshop and desktop publishing took off first on the Mac?"

      Because the OS was bundled with hardware that supported more colors than the IBM hardware of the day. And if you're going to use that as a weapon... Why do you think Adobe releases modern versions of Photoshop for Windows first?

    30. Re:Mac World by AppleOSuX · · Score: 1

      Wrong again.

      But it is interesting to me how you seem to think that insulting someone proves a point.

      It's pretty weak actually.

    31. Re:Mac World by I_want_information · · Score: 1

      Microsoft also revolutionized the rapid development of software with things like Visual Basic and COM.

      Ummm, no, Apple did that first, with Hypercard, in 1986 or '87.

      First to incorporate the mouse? Not Microsoft

      First to incorporate a GUI? Not Microsoft

      First to make REAL use of USB? Not Microsoft.

      First to ditch the floppy? Not Microsoft

      First to market with a PDA that recognized your handwriting? Not Microsoft.
      ...

    32. Re:Mac World by AppleOSuX · · Score: 1

      "Ummm, no, Apple did that first, with Hypercard, in 1986 or '87."

      Really? So, lot's of businesses used Hypercard for about 10 years like they did with VB and MSVC and COM (which created a multi-million user third party component market)?

      "First to incorporate the mouse? Not Microsoft"

      You misread that. I said mouse WHEEL.

      "First to incorporate a GUI? Not Microsoft"

      Nope. But, the first to popularize a GUI that ran on commodity hardware. There's a difference.

      First to make REAL use of USB? Not Microsoft.
      First to ditch the floppy? Not Microsoft.

      Nope. Nope. But, you're not seeing my point here. You're trying to take something away from Microsoft. I'm not trying to take anything away from Apple's accomplishments.

      I'm okay with you saying that Apple does some things very well. They do. But, you can't seriously sit there and say that Microsoft hasn't had as much (if not more) of an impact on business (and play) as we know it.

    33. Re:Mac World by Lars+T. · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Are you even trying to make sense? Heck, you are WMF, of course you aren't.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    34. Re:Mac World by I_want_information · · Score: 1

      "Ummm, no, Apple did that first, with Hypercard, in 1986 or '87."

      Really? So, lot's of businesses used Hypercard for about 10 years like they did with VB and MSVC and COM (which created a multi-million user third party component market)?

      Well, actually, yes. As in I think Northwest Airlines, Renault... and others. We still hear about businesses on the Hypercard list needing help with adding a bit of functionality to their code base. And that's not ten years but more than twenty years.
       

      "First to incorporate the mouse? Not Microsoft"

      You misread that.
       

      No, actually, I didn't. Really. Don't give a flying crap about a mousewheel (I mean, it's fine if you do, I just don't).
      ...

      First to ditch the floppy? Not Microsoft.

      Nope. Nope. But, you're not seeing my point here.
       

      No, you're not seeing mine. I'm not trying to take anything away from Microsoft. I don't need to. Apple doesn't need to.

      This thread isn't about Microsoft.

    35. Re:Mac World by dangitman · · Score: 1

      "Apple did groundbreaking things, and challenged conventional wisdoms about computers and software" Oh puhleeeeaze. And Microsoft didn't?

      I never said that Microsoft didn't do groundbreaking things. I simply responded to the lie that Apple is all about conformity, and has never done anything innovative. So, do you agree that Apple has done good things, or not? Your "puhleeeeaze" makes it rather unclear.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    36. Re:Mac World by dangitman · · Score: 1

      No, I just like Apple and dislike lies and trolls. That doesn't make me a zealot. And I'm not "so upset" over this, I'm just bored.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    37. Re:Mac World by AppleOSuX · · Score: 1

      LOL. You think because a handful of companies have used Hypercard that it was more of a game changer than Microsoft's VB? I'll assume you're joking. That's just rich.

      "Don't give a flying crap about a mousewheel"

      You're just jealous because your favorite company _still_ sells laptops with one mouse button (oh and multi-touch that doesn't amount to much more than a marketing gimmick just like the dock and expose).

      "This thread isn't about Microsoft."

      Really? I don't think anyone got that memo, take a look at some of the comments genius.

    38. Re:Mac World by AppleOSuX · · Score: 1

      "I never said that Microsoft didn't do groundbreaking things."

      You don't have to actually type something to imply it. But no, you go ahead and hide behind semantics, that's cool.

      And yes, I do think that Apple has done some real groundbreaking marketing. Typically they take one gimmick and build the system around it, but ultimately they fail because of that. It happened with the Mac, iPod and iPhone. Each of them started out with one or two gimmicks that cause it to sell well. Then they don't know what to do with it and someone like Microsoft comes along and eats their lunch.

    39. Re:Mac World by I_want_information · · Score: 1

      I'm so sorry, I must have misread the thread's title. It really is Happy 25th Microsoft?

      Yeah, right. Whatever.

      I'm not jealous; for what I pay for Apple products, I could have a couple of PCs; I just don't want any.

      Don't want a two (or three or ...) button mouse.

      Don't want a mousewheel. Really.

      Don't want VBA = Virus-Building Application.

      Are you capable of sticking to a topic? Or are you just one big moving target?

    40. Re:Mac World by AppleOSuX · · Score: 1

      "Yeah, right. Whatever."

      Mmyeah... [chews cigar] and I can respond like this too, see? Mmyeah...

      Also, let it be known that you don't want a mousewheel. Duely noted sir.

      Thanks for your participation. You are now being dismissed.

    41. Re:Mac World by I_want_information · · Score: 1

      Okay, I'll let you have the last word.

      Oh, wait!

  5. Best. Dept. Name. Ever. by damn_registrars · · Score: 0, Troll

    fanbois-of-the-world-unite

    'nuff said

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  6. I remember it well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    It was the last day I showered or left the basement.

    1. Re:I remember it well... by Scottar · · Score: 3, Funny

      Its not a basement, its a command center

  7. Commemorative model? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

    Will this include a commemorative model Macintosh like the 20th Anniversary did? (I own two, one dead by lightning strike.)

    --
    Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    1. Re:Commemorative model? by StreetStealth · · Score: 1

      While the TAM was incredibly forward-looking and foreshadowed Apple's coming priority of cutting-edge industrial design, I think its status as a "commemorative" model was very much a product of the Gil Amelio era at Apple. Somehow that sort of status for a product doesn't seem to fit in with Apple's present-day, minimalist offering strategy.

      --
      Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
    2. Re:Commemorative model? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah, but I can still hope for some kind of a Mac Mini-level revision with a bump in speed and a built-in iPod dock to come out tomorrow at a price point of $666.66 (between the prices of the two current configurations), perhaps merging in features of the Apple TV platform.

      Or even better, how about a pocket-sized Mac Micro? That would be a shocker!

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    3. Re:Commemorative model? by dangitman · · Score: 1

      No. Steve has publicly said that Apple today is about looking to the future, not being nostalgic about the past. He really seems to hate fetishes and nostalgia. I can see where he's coming from, because Apple could very easily get caught up in repeating the past and reminiscing about the good old days.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    4. Re:Commemorative model? by glwillia · · Score: 1

      $666.66 is also, coincidentally, the price for the very first Apple I computer, in 1976.

    5. Re:Commemorative model? by Sillygates · · Score: 1

      The 20th anniversary mac was made in 1997. It is now 2009 (12 years later).
      Interesting....

      --
      I fear the Y2038 bug
    6. Re:Commemorative model? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Ah, that's right. The 20th Anniversary Mac was celebrating the 20th Anniversary of Apple.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    7. Re:Commemorative model? by Tim+Browse · · Score: 1

      I own two, one dead by lightning strike.

      The other by design, iirc.

    8. Re:Commemorative model? by Val314 · · Score: 1

      Or even better, how about a pocket-sized Mac Micro? That would be a shocker!

      that on is called iPhone (or iPod touch)

    9. Re:Commemorative model? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      This is the same question we asked 5 years ago. Would there be a special edition Mac to mark the 20th anniversary of the Mac (the original marked the 20th anniversary of Apple). There wasn't, and Steve Jobs indicated that it was not likely to happen for any models.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re:Commemorative model? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      A shame really, since the 20th Anniversary Mac was really the forerunner of the modern iMac. All-in-one design, TFT screen - probably the closest you could come to the new iMac with the technology available a decade ago. It was a limited production run, and people got to pay a premium to have a Mac that wouldn't be matched by consumer models for several years. Doing the same today would probably result in a tablet with a combined eInk/OLED screen and a pair of quad-core ARM CPUs and a folding bluetooth keyboard.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    11. Re:Commemorative model? by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Doing the same today would probably result in a tablet with a combined eInk/OLED screen and a pair of quad-core ARM CPUs and a folding bluetooth keyboard.

      Precisely. Ugggh.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  8. Kinda Telling by QuantumRiff · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That you mention "Apples Superbowl Commercial" and people know it. My dad knows, and is a real estate manager! That commercial really sticks in peoples mind. I would love to see apple come out with another commercial of that caliber. The Hal9000 commercial wasn't nearly as cool...

    --

    What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    1. Re:Kinda Telling by lymond01 · · Score: 1

      I'd say the "I'm a Mac. I'm a PC." commercials are pretty famous.

    2. Re:Kinda Telling by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      I would love to see apple come out with another commercial of that caliber.

      I know! You could get Steve Jobs to appear in a series of commercials with Carrot Top!

      --
      That is all.
    3. Re:Kinda Telling by I_want_information · · Score: 1

      That you mention "Apples Superbowl Commercial" and people know it. My dad knows, and is a real estate manager! That commercial really sticks in peoples mind. I would love to see apple come out with another commercial of that caliber. ..

      Ahh, but do you remember the "burn, baby, burn" commercial?

      I laugh every time I hear the song on the radio...

    4. Re:Kinda Telling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That you mention "Apples Superbowl Commercial" and people know it. My dad knows, and is a real estate manager! That commercial really sticks in peoples mind.

      One word: Boobs

    5. Re:Kinda Telling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but they only highlight how much better PCs are.

    6. Re:Kinda Telling by gilgoomesh · · Score: 1

      I think you mean "funnier" but your point is not lost -- John Hodgman is a superstar.

  9. Not my Grandmother by aardwolf64 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I have two Macs at home, but I don't think my Grandmother could handle it. How do you explain the difference between quitting an application and simply closing the window? My wife has the same issue...

    1. Re:Not my Grandmother by Hatta · · Score: 1

      If you read this article from yesterday, it seems that even slashdotters have some trouble with the distinction.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:Not my Grandmother by dingen · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Why should your grandmother care? If she wants to surf the web, she clicks on Safari in the dock. If it's already running, she'll get a window to browse the web with. If it's not running, it will load and she'll get a window to browse the web with.

      Keeping track of which applications are currently running is something for techies who are concerned with memory usage and such because they actually know how their computer works. Your grandmother doesn't so neither does she needs to know the difference between closing a window and closing an application.

      --
      Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
    3. Re:Not my Grandmother by GaryPatterson · · Score: 4, Interesting

      On top of that, a good OS will page out the unused application after a while, so it's taking up neither RAM nor CPU cycles.

      It doesn't matter if the app is left open, it doesn't have any noticeable impact on the system for users.

    4. Re:Not my Grandmother by drinkypoo · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Just buy more ram. Don't worry about quitting. It's a mac, it'll beachball itself eventually and have to be rebooted anyway.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Not my Grandmother by mdwh2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      She'll care when it's "Why does my computer keep running slow?" or even that she doesn't have enough memory to open applications. Especially 25 years ago, when OSs didn't swap out RAM, and RAM was very limited.

      Are you actually saying that users never closing applications was intended behaviour?

    6. Re:Not my Grandmother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have two Macs at home, but I don't think my Grandmother could handle it. How do you explain the difference between quitting an application and simply closing the window? My wife has the same issue...

      Why bother explaining it? Get 4 GB and let it run. If there's memory contention it will be swapped out. Perhaps have them reboot the system every week or three.

    7. Re:Not my Grandmother by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Just explain the difference between an application and a window. Grandmothers typically aren't stupid. Grandmothers of the original Mac era easily understood it. The only reason people today don't understand it is that they've gotten used to the Windows way, where a window is perceived as the application.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    8. Re:Not my Grandmother by mdwh2 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Talking about a "good OS" is all very well, but did classic MacOS on the Macintosh 128k do these things?

      (And indeed, although I know that modern OSs do do this, I'd be curious to see them tested in practice - how well does OS X, or any other OS come to that, run if you never ever close anything down?)

    9. Re:Not my Grandmother by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      The only reason people today don't understand it is that they've gotten used to the Windows way, where a window is perceived as the application.

      I've used a variety of OSs, so I don't think this is the issue. It's fundamental UI problem - there's no visual indication that the application is still running, so one assumes it isn't. This doesn't have to be a window - e.g., on AmigaOS you could close windows, but still leave a screen open for it.

    10. Re:Not my Grandmother by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      There is this lady who lives next door to my mother. She has a business gardening and is pretty low tech. For years she used an old mac to do her accounting. Apparently she made a mistake at one point and lost the lot. Overwrote a file or something.

      The mac is easy enough for non technical people to use but they need to get advice some times on managing their data.

    11. Re:Not my Grandmother by Oscar_Wilde · · Score: 1

      Talking about a "good OS" is all very well, but did classic MacOS on the Macintosh 128k do these things?
      It didn't need to. It never ran a multitasking version of MacOS, IIRC. I may be mistaken though.

      (And indeed, although I know that modern OSs do do this, I'd be curious to see them tested in practice - how well does OS X, or any other OS come to that, run if you never ever close anything down?)
      Just fine, as long as you aren't constantly switching between every application you have open. I just looked at my dock and I've got fourteen applications open and my both cores of my CPU are 95% idle. I'm probably only going to use three or four of the running applications today so everything will be just fine.

    12. Re:Not my Grandmother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My grandma does kernel upgrades remotely.

    13. Re:Not my Grandmother by dangitman · · Score: 1

      I've used a variety of OSs, so I don't think this is the issue. It's fundamental UI problem - there's no visual indication that the application is still running, so one assumes it isn't.

      There are several visual indicators. If the application is frontmost, then its name is displayed in the menu bar. An icon for the application shows when you hit CMD-Tab to activate the application switcher. Running applications are also highlighted in the Dock, and shown in Activity Monitor.

      I don't see what the problem is. It's perfectly rational and simple to learn and understand.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    14. Re:Not my Grandmother by Miguelito · · Score: 1

      Have you even used OSX? There are signs that it's still running:
      1. The application is still in the title bar (assuming you don't click the background or something else immediately).
      2. The Dock shows the application runnning

      That said.. my dad, who's not stupid, doesn't get it either. I point it out to him all the time. He's worked with technology his whole life, starting with telecom (especially cypto stuff) in the Air Force, then worked with phone systems since then.. 40+ years now. Yet he's helpless with computers (and VCRs, receivers, etc). I think I _finally_ broke him of the habit of downloading a dmg, and dragging the application directly into the dock from there, so that everytime he started it via the icon on the dock, it'd have to remount the dmg again and run it from inside there.

      There was one cool save I did for him. He managed to (I figured out later) move /Applications under his desktop. Most apps broke, but ichat was up. He IM'd me, I took over his desktop, opened a terminal.. figured out what he did, moved it back and the system was fine again.

      --
      - My favorite error message: xscreensaver, running on an old Sparc 5 w/ 8bit color: bsod: Couldn't allocate color Blue
    15. Re:Not my Grandmother by chrisxcr1 · · Score: 1

      My grandmother is 74 and gets along great on her iMac and she doesn't seem to know or care about the difference between quitting an app and closing a window. I just asked my girlfriend about it and she doesn't find it to be a difficult concept understand.

    16. Re:Not my Grandmother by I_want_information · · Score: 1

      I have two Macs at home, but I don't think my Grandmother could handle it. How do you explain the difference between quitting an application and simply closing the window? My wife has the same issue...

      Sounds like a classic Windows user to me...

    17. Re:Not my Grandmother by chrisxcr1 · · Score: 1

      Have you ever started up an Adobe application? If you have you'll understand why you might want to close a document but keep the application running in case you need to use it again later.

    18. Re:Not my Grandmother by Lars+T. · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, you are right, she would have been much happier using DOS.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    19. Re:Not my Grandmother by mdwh2 · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Talking about a "good OS" is all very well, but did classic MacOS on the Macintosh 128k do these things?

      (And indeed, although I know that modern OSs do do this, I'd be curious to see them tested in practice - how well does OS X, or any other OS come to that, run if you never ever close anything down?)

      ---

      Talking about Macs on a Mac article is off-topic?

    20. Re:Not my Grandmother by RedK · · Score: 1

      Time Machine fixes that problem nowadays. Looks like all she needed was a few upgrades and she wouldn't have had that problem.

      --
      "Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
      Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
    21. Re:Not my Grandmother by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Time Machine fixes that problem nowadays. Looks like all she needed was a few upgrades and she wouldn't have had that problem.

      No her mac was one of the very first. All her data was on a 3.5 inch floppy. She just needed somebody to tell her that the computer and disks she used wouldn't have worked forever and that she should make backups. Unfortunately I only heard about this in the past tense so I never got to give her that advice.

    22. Re:Not my Grandmother by Fear+the+Clam · · Score: 1

      How do you explain the difference between quitting an application and simply closing the window?

      It's the same difference between shutting off a car's engine and stopping the car at a red light.

      Personally, the whole close-the-last-window-quits-the-application thing annoys me. Nothing like looking through a directory of files, opening each one, waiting for the program to start up, realizing that's not the file you were looking for, closing it, and then having to reload the whole program again with the next file.

    23. Re:Not my Grandmother by ahankinson · · Score: 1

      I guarantee that this ficticious grandmother will not notice 'slower' at all, mostly because she's only running Safari and Mail, and not XCode, Terminal, Adium, Photoshop, Numbers, iTunes and Firefox as well.

      And 'not having enough memory to open applications' is something that the Mac hasn't had for ~8 years.

    24. Re:Not my Grandmother by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      My wife too - just buy more memory and stop by the computer every now and then and use "apple-tab" and "apple-q" on everything...

    25. Re:Not my Grandmother by magus_melchior · · Score: 1

      Um... correct me if I'm wrong, but even on the cheapest mini, I have the hardest time trying to think up a scenario where a person would exhaust the system resources with casual use. I would think that the OS X kernel would know to not devote so many clock cycles to apps with nothing open and no active tasks.

      To the larger point of "closing vs. quitting", there's a bit of ambiguity, especially with apps like System Preferences. The norm is "closing != quitting", but as far as I know, this app is the only one that breaks this convention. Given the power of most Macs, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't that big of a deal if an app is left open.

      --
      "We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
    26. Re:Not my Grandmother by sanyacid · · Score: 1

      Don't know about 25 years ago, but on my current MacBook I hardly ever quit any applications that I use commonly (Among those are Adobe Photoshop CS4, Safari, Pages, Mail, iTunes, Calendar, Terminal, Skype...).
      This lowest end MacBook with 2GB RAM doesn't seem to have any trouble constantly running all thoss applications.

    27. Re:Not my Grandmother by ben0207 · · Score: 1

      iPhoto too. Bit weird, since it takes a bit of time to load fresh and keeping it "open" would stop this, but eh.

      --
      cmd-q.co.uk - some sort of stupid fucking internet bullshit
    28. Re:Not my Grandmother by SpooForBrains · · Score: 2, Informative

      25 years ago, the Mac did not have Multifinder, and thus this was a non-issue. You could only have one application open at once.

      --
      "The dew has clearly fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning"
    29. Re:Not my Grandmother by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1
      Why would any user need to know the difference? It's an implementation detail, which has no place in the user interface. There are two states that matter to the user:
      1. App has unsaved data.
      2. App doesn't have unsaved data.

      If an app has no unsaved data then there is no difference between it running but being swapped out and it being quit, from a user perspective. The only difference is the start-up time, and this depends a lot on the current system state (a swapped-out app may be slower to respond than a closed one with the binary and libraries in the disk cache, unless it's written in C++ and the loader needs to spend a long time resolving symbols and running constructors).

      In a well-designed desktop, the environment would query applications about their unsaved data and quit ones that hadn't been touched for a long time that had no unsaved data, and relaunch them when they were needed. Quitting an application is something a user should never have to do manually.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    30. Re:Not my Grandmother by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      To the larger point of "closing vs. quitting", there's a bit of ambiguity, especially with apps like System Preferences. The norm is "closing != quitting", but as far as I know, this app is the only one that breaks this convention. Given the power of most Macs, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't that big of a deal if an app is left open.

      It's a matter of "interface" vs. "view on data" (or "document") windows. Windows makes a similar distinction with MDI vs. SDI.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    31. Re:Not my Grandmother by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Yes, because obviously DOS was the only alternative.

      DOS was even shittier, and if you can only compare it to that, it's hardly a ringing endorsement...

    32. Re:Not my Grandmother by Lars+T. · · Score: 1
      Okay, hand her a TSR80. Or a C64? How about a PC running XENIX?

      But yeah, you could also try something ten times the price of a Macintosh running X Window. But those hadn't copied any of the interface innovations from Apple yet, so all that made them different from the above was that you could show graphics in one window by typing commands in another one.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    33. Re:Not my Grandmother by AppleOSuX · · Score: 1

      In the Mac OS you can put a "Delete" toolbar button in the Finder window, but you can't use the "Delete" key to delete a file. You press the "Enter" key to rename a file instead of opening (entering) it and you press a non-control key combination (Cmd+tilde) to switch between windows within one application.

      When a window is not minimized, there is no representation of it in the dock.

      Makes sense right?

    34. Re:Not my Grandmother by AppleOSuX · · Score: 1

      There are lots of differences between power users and regular users.

      The Mac is not for power users. It simply can't keep up.

    35. Re:Not my Grandmother by chrisxcr1 · · Score: 1

      I think you'll need to explain those differences for me understand what you are talking about. I've been using Macs at work for almost 20 years now. I'm a prepress operator at a mid-size printing company and in addition to my normal duties I also maintain all the workstations, servers and network infrastructure for my department in my spare time. Does that make me a power user or am I still a lowly "regular user"? Most of the rest of my company runs on windows and has a dedicated IT staff larger than my whole department. Presumably they would be considered power users in your eyes, yet they can't seem to keep our Windows based email or MIS systems up for more than a day or two without interruption. I find it funny how Windows users puff themselves up as some kind of genius for their imagined mastery of such a crappy OS and then have the balls to denigrate others for choosing another platform based on it's utility.

    36. Re:Not my Grandmother by I_want_information · · Score: 1

      Have you ever started up an Adobe application?

      I try really hard not to...

    37. Re:Not my Grandmother by AppleOSuX · · Score: 1

      "I'm a prepress operator at a mid-size printing company and in addition to my normal duties I also maintain all the workstations, servers and network infrastructure for my department in my spare time."

      Congratulations. How do you interact with the interface though? The answer is what defines a power user, not your mistaken idea that it depends on what your duties are around the office.

      And if you're MIS department can't keep an email system up that's just bad management. It's not like it's the operating system's fault. Do YOU run a heavily trafficked email or MIS server with Macs?

    38. Re:Not my Grandmother by Lars+T. · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Do you even try to make sense?

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    39. Re:Not my Grandmother by chrisxcr1 · · Score: 1

      Congratulations. How do you interact with the interface though? The answer is what defines a power user, not your mistaken idea that it depends on what your duties are around the office.

      I'm not sure how to answer that. I don't really think about the interface, I just get my work done fairly effortlessly and have plenty of time left over to surf slashdot. Isn't that the point?

      And if you're MIS department can't keep an email system up that's just bad management. It's not like it's the operating system's fault. Do YOU run a heavily trafficked email or MIS server with Macs?

      Well, no I don't need to run an email or MIS server yet but I have been slowly forced to replicate a lot of it's functionality on my Xserve in Filemaker in my spare time so we can get our job done without the IT dept's "help". You may be right about bad management being part of the problem but when I look at how little I have to actually work to do my job I wonder if everything else would be such a mess if it were run on something other than windows. I'm really not that bright.

    40. Re:Not my Grandmother by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      She'll care when it's "Why does my computer keep running slow?"

      Why would she do that? She should be able to run Firefox/Safari, iTunes, iPhoto, iChat, and Word at the same time without any problems. If she's got an older Mac without much memory, a simple upgrade will fix that problem. If she's running applications that need more memory (like opening big images in Photoshop), then she should be advanced enough to quit applications.

    41. Re:Not my Grandmother by Millennium · · Score: 1

      Talking about a "good OS" is all very well, but did classic MacOS on the Macintosh 128k do these things?

      No, but it didn't multitask either, so the point is moot: such a situation could not have come up anyway.

  10. Arrrgh. And many more too... by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Interesting

    May you continue to be the true innovators in the industry and give the rest of us good stuff to copy from.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    1. Re:Arrrgh. And many more too... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Apple is mostly responsible for true innovation in marketing. Actually, there is another case where they did something great for everyone: firewire. (memory security issues notwithstanding...) But everything that the mac is known for was done by someone else first. What they did was make it marketable. Unfortunately they also did it very poorly. The Macintosh was a graphic-only machine with zero graphics acceleration until the release of the 8*24 GC. A moment later, the Amiga cost little more than a games console and would run rings around it with the same processor at about the same clock rate. And later Amigas were even better at being macs than macs were; an Amiga 2500 would run Mac programs and MacOS programs faster than a Macintosh IIci with the same processor (68030@25MHz.) NeXTStep was pretty usable on a Turbo Slab with a 68040@25MHz. Apple turned it into OSX, chunky and unresponsive on a dual PowerPC G5@2GHz. But wow, it sure is pretty. Apple is about marketing first.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Arrrgh. And many more too... by abigor · · Score: 1

      It could be argued that all successful companies are about marketing first. There's nothing wrong with that - it's how the system works.

    3. Re:Arrrgh. And many more too... by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      You Amiga fanbois really have bad memory.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    4. Re:Arrrgh. And many more too... by chrisxcr1 · · Score: 1

      Yeah I loved my Amiga too but to be fair until the AGA machines came out you were limited to 16 colors at 640x400 or HAMs 4096(ish) colors at 320x200 which is why Macintosh ruled in publishing and Amiga did well in games and video. Amiga never really did have anything comparable to QuickDraw, Quicktime or Colorsync. There was an awful lot of innovation in software at Apple back then.

    5. Re:Arrrgh. And many more too... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Yeah I loved my Amiga too but to be fair until the AGA machines came out you were limited to 16 colors at 640x400 or HAMs 4096(ish) colors at 320x200 which is why Macintosh ruled in publishing and Amiga did well in games and video.

      Nope. You could get a video card long before any AGA machines came out permitting all the usual color modes.

      Amiga never really did have anything comparable to QuickDraw, Quicktime or Colorsync.

      Uh, at the time Quicktime was a video codec, container, and player. Whoopdedoo? It wasn't even the best thing going at the time. Quickdraw is just a set of drawing routines, which ran entirely on the CPU on almost every machine until well into Macintosh history. (Practically into the effing present.) I might add that today Quicktime is mostly a DRM platform. There's nothing it does otherwise that isn't done better elsewhere, except perhaps display wraparound images. I don't know what Colorsync is, but if it has to do with color correction, I have no idea if anyone had a working color calibration system for the Amiga, but I would be surprised to find out that they didn't.

      The Mac was the dominant desktop publishing platform because the Adobe stuff was crap on Windows for a very long time. But you're right that the Amiga wouldn't have taken that position, regardless of the reason.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:Arrrgh. And many more too... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typical programmer geek response to anything positive said about Apple or Microsoft.

      Just because you fail to see the innovation and real reasons products become popular doesn't mean it's not there.

    7. Re:Arrrgh. And many more too... by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      Amiga never really did have anything comparable to QuickDraw, Quicktime or Colorsync.

      Uh, at the time Quicktime was a video codec, container, and player. Whoopdedoo?

      Shows what you know - nothing. Quicktime has from the start been a multimedia framework including rich API.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    8. Re:Arrrgh. And many more too... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Quicktime has from the start been a multimedia framework including rich API.

      Meaning that it can be embedded? Or are you talking about the laughable interactivity functionality, seldom used because it is pure garbage?

      Video for Windows could be referred to as a "multimedia framework including rich API" if you were a marketdroid. DirectVideo might even deserve the description, although it is certainly much newer. But I don't think Microsoft is really that great, I just don't think Apple is that hot either.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:Arrrgh. And many more too... by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      No I'm talking about the often used functionality that had no equivalent on your beloved yet lame Amiga.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    10. Re:Arrrgh. And many more too... by chrisxcr1 · · Score: 1

      Nope. You could get a video card long before any AGA machines came out permitting all the usual color modes.

      And you were completely dependent on the video card vendor for the retargetable graphics driver because Commodore hadn't gotten around to that yet.

      Amiga never really did have anything comparable to QuickDraw, Quicktime or Colorsync.

      Uh, at the time Quicktime was a video codec, container, and player. Whoopdedoo? It wasn't even the best thing going at the time. Quickdraw is just a set of drawing routines, which ran entirely on the CPU on almost every machine until well into Macintosh history. (Practically into the effing present.) I might add that today Quicktime is mostly a DRM platform. There's nothing it does otherwise that isn't done better elsewhere, except perhaps display wraparound images. I don't know what Colorsync is, but if it has to do with color correction, I have no idea if anyone had a working color calibration system for the Amiga, but I would be surprised to find out that they didn't.

      Quicktime was a rich API as Lars T. below mentioned. Something that again, Commodore never got around to.

      Quickdraw may have run on the cpu but if you had a Nubus Mac and some cash you could get a video card from multiple vendors with a hardware quickdraw accelerator. The last one I had went up to 1360x1024x24bit. Agnes was great for it's time but in the end just held the Amiga back. Not having an extensible graphics system prevented Amigas use for anything other than home hobby use and low end video use.

      Colorsync is for color calibration and as far as I can remember Commodore never got around to the either.

      The Mac was the dominant desktop publishing platform because the Adobe stuff was crap on Windows for a very long time. But you're right that the Amiga wouldn't have taken that position, regardless of the reason.

      Adobe stuff was crap on Windows for a long time because there was no system level color calibration system comparable to Colorsync and font rendering was crap.

  11. 1984 was not like 1984 by fm6 · · Score: 1

    But get real people, the Mac had nothing to do with it.

    1. Re:1984 was not like 1984 by TheKidWho · · Score: 2, Funny

      Are you kidding? 1984 was exactly like 1984, the personal computer was just a ploy by the government to gain access to our very thoughts. What you don't know is that MAC OS and WINDOWS and even LINUX are all running rootkits that grant access to the NWO. Everything you type is monitored. Why do you think new computers come with video cameras standard??? So they can monitor you...

      </TinFoil>

    2. Re:1984 was not like 1984 by fm6 · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's simply not true. I'm sending the Thought Police over to your house to explain to you how mistaken you are.

    3. Re:1984 was not like 1984 by Sans_A_Cause · · Score: 4, Funny

      There was no 1984. We have always lived in 2009.

    4. Re:1984 was not like 1984 by LoadWB · · Score: 1

      Which is why I use my Amiga for personal pursuits. Although, I am sure that once Obamamerica finds out that I have a non-approved device connected to the Internet, and I have thoughts of my own which are not directed by video streams of passing the buck and exceptional exceptions to hard and fast rules, and countless advertisements about non-consensual consensus, I will have to go into hiding.

    5. Re:1984 was not like 1984 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like that service. I especially like the name: Let Me Go Ogle That For You.

    6. Re:1984 was not like 1984 by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Actually, I was just reading how the Obama staffers who just moved into the the White House are tearing their hear out because all the computers are Windows, and they all prefer Mac.

    7. Re:1984 was not like 1984 by Brickwall · · Score: 1
      Actually, I was just reading how the Obama staffers who just moved into the the White House are tearing their hear out

      Self-inflicted deafness?

      --
      What was once true, is no longer so
    8. Re:1984 was not like 1984 by LoadWB · · Score: 1

      I consider myself a conspiracy theory generator. It makes for a lot of fun with my tin-foil hat friends and colleagues.

  12. Has it been that long? by Jonah+Bomber · · Score: 1

    I love my iMac! My first computer was an Apple IIe.

    1. Re:Has it been that long? by Threni · · Score: 1

      I used an Apple iie years ago. I enjoyed sneakers, epoch, super taxman. The Macs just seemed like expensive but well marketed bollocks to me, but I was comparing them to the Amiga and the Early PC, both of which had their pros (and cons, admittedly). I'm sure if you had loads of money but struggled with 2 mouse buttons they were great. Thank heavens for Xerox's R&D, eh?

  13. It was a ridiculous failure by Bemopolis · · Score: 4, Funny

    No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.

    --
    "I guess the moral of the story is, don't paint your airship with rocket fuel." -- Addison Bain
  14. Re:fp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, apparently you're busy using it to spew your shit on our site. I'll wait until you've finished (just to be polite, of course).

  15. funny, it booted faster by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    25 years and computers still don't boot any faster. A 8MHz 128k Mac would boot in about 20 seconds. Now computers are clocked about 500 times faster and it takes 10 times longer. What's a factor of 5000 among friends?

    1. Re:funny, it booted faster by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      This is especially insightful, considering recent MS hate regarding boot speeds and increasing OS requirements. It's not MS specific. It's a general OS thing...

    2. Re:funny, it booted faster by MouseR · · Score: 4, Informative

      EFI OpenBoot firmware has more code than the original Mac OS boot floppy, wich cheated by having 4 megs already in ROM.

      So, what's your point, really?

      My Apple //c and multitude of other antique hardware (including a Lisa 2) might boot faster, but they sure dont do as much.

      Quit complaining and head back to your compiler!

    3. Re:funny, it booted faster by Microlith · · Score: 1

      And considering what my computer can do, compared to an 8MHz 128k Mac, I'm not surprised that it takes longer. I'm sure if you reimplemented that Mac today, you could make it boot in less than 20 seconds. It'd still be just as incapable of today's applications.

    4. Re:funny, it booted faster by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Even more so, I bet an emulated 8MHz 512KB Mac would boot under 1 second on today's computers.

    5. Re:funny, it booted faster by StreetStealth · · Score: 4, Informative

      Honestly, I think the evolution of suspend states has more than made up for it. Granted, you're still drawing a bit of power while in sleep, but modern Macs use next to nothing in that state and wake near-instantaneously.

      Coupled with an OS that can run for weeks without a reboot, I've no complaints.

      --
      Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
    6. Re:funny, it booted faster by ogdenk · · Score: 1

      I don't know though.... a Mac 128 really was a joke but I can't think of much I do now that I wasn't doing with my old Mac IIci I had w/ 128MB RAM. It just took a little more patience for things like 3D rendering in Strata3D. I had Adobe premiere and a VideoSpigot card after a while as well.

      I had MacOS 7.5, A/UX 3 and NetBSD/mac68k on separate SCSI drives and 2 extra NuBus video cards (for 3 monitors total).

      Running a modern browser on it today would kinda suck but running software from the same time period, it was quite an effective machine. It was a bit slower than the monster IIfx I replaced it with though.

      For basic computing tasks, the old Mac Plus (my first real 16-bit machine) w/ 4MB RAM was an OK machine for word processing, BBS'ing, light database work and playing with HyperCard. The 128 was obsolete before it left the production line.

    7. Re:funny, it booted faster by ogdenk · · Score: 1

      You don't have to bet.... I just tested it with Mini vMac and turned throttling off.

      It takes less than 1/2 a second to boot System 7.01 on an emulated Mac Plus even when loaded up with lots of extensions. This is on a 1.42Ghz eMac G4 w/ 768MB of RAM.

      I need to mod my eMac with an LCD though, the analog board for the CRT is slowly dying. While I'm in there I'll move a couple resistors so it runs at 1.67GHz. I'll take an eMac over a G4 iMac or mini any day.

    8. Re:funny, it booted faster by jaavaaguru · · Score: 1

      It's really not a general OS thing. I have new OSes on hardware that I got 4 or 5 years ago and it runs just as quick as the OSes I was running back then, if not faster. There is no reason why all OSes shouldn't be getting faster rather than slower as hardware speed increases.

    9. Re:funny, it booted faster by jrothwell97 · · Score: 1

      In the first Macs, the system software was stored in the ROM, and didn't have to be read from slow, clunky, rewriteable disks. There's also the minor fact that the Mac 128 didn't have to start the window compositor, the wi-fi extensions, the journaled file systems, quickly check the directory structure and file system integrity, and load several gigabytes of data from the disk, whilst also activating the swap and pre-emptively buffering data during boot.

      --
      Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
    10. Re:funny, it booted faster by Cannelloni · · Score: 1

      Why would you want to ever shut down a modern computer? My Macbook Pro wakes up from sleep in one second.

      --
      Beauty is in the beholder of the eye.
    11. Re:funny, it booted faster by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Why take an eMac over an iMac or Mac mini? If it were a Mac mini you wouldn't have a problem such as having to open up the computer because of a screen problem.

      That's one of the reason why I don't want an AIO desktop computer. The other reason being that I don't have to buy a 24" display to get a better computer. Heck I don't think a 19" iMac would even fit on my desk, let alone a 24" one.

    12. Re:funny, it booted faster by GrahamCox · · Score: 1

      but modern Macs use next to nothing in that state and wake near-instantaneously

      You say that, but my Intel Macbook lasts about three days on battery in sleep mode. My previous G3 iBook lasted about four weeks.

    13. Re:funny, it booted faster by fishtorte · · Score: 1

      In the first Macs, the system software was stored in the ROM

      False.

    14. Re:funny, it booted faster by ogdenk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The CPU in the eMac is slightly beefier and the eMac (at least the 2005 model) has a much better video chipset (64MB Radeon 9600), more available ports for expansion and uses desktop components versus laptop components.

      To me, it's worth the hackery to cram an LCD in there after the CRT finally gives up. It's also quite a bit more expandable and faster than the iMac G4's.

      eMacs really aren't that bad. A better PPC machine would obviously be a big dual cpu G4 tower or a dual G5 but both are a LOT more expensive than an eMac. G4 eMacs are REALLY cheap these days as well. Usually half as expensive as an iMac G4 and are genuinely better machines even though the CRT will only do 1280x960.

    15. Re:funny, it booted faster by Sentry21 · · Score: 1

      Well, my Macbook boots in about 20 seconds, and has 16,384 times the memory. Whereas before you could fit your entire operating system AND an application AND a few documents on a single 400k floppy, now our OS comes on a 7 GB DVD, drives a 1600x1200 display instead of 512x384 at 24 bpp instead of 1.

      Think about that: 24 kilobytes of memory for the screen back then, vs. 5.4 megabytes today â" and that's just the screen! Modern OSes do all their compositing in hardware, so you're got a backing store for every window, which could quintuple or more your total memory used.

      The OS maps gigabytes of data into memory, runs services whose config file parsers take up more space in memory than previous computers ran.

      Or, to summarize it all up in a simple way: If a modern computer did no more with its resources than a 128k Mac did, it would be a shame. But your factor of 5000 ignores the sheer amount of things our computers do for us that previous computers hadn't the remotest chance of doing after a decade.

      It's not like we're not getting something for it all, you know?

    16. Re:funny, it booted faster by adh0c · · Score: 1

      25 years and computers still don't boot any faster. A 8MHz 128k Mac would boot in about 20 seconds. Now computers are clocked about 500 times faster and it takes 10 times longer.

      "Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster." -Niklaus Wirth But of course, you will have tons of new pseudoprogrammers telling you that "optimization is the root of evil" or some other crap they take for granted because they heard it said from some authority.

    17. Re:funny, it booted faster by phillymjs · · Score: 1

      Macs never had the OS in ROM, with one exception. The Mac Classic, released in 1990. It had System 6 in ROM, and you could boot into it by holding down Cmd-Opt-X-O at boot time.

      ~Philly

    18. Re:funny, it booted faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The original 128k Mac had 64k ROMs. When the Mac Plus was introduced, the ROM was doubled to 128k to accommodate the double-sided floppies and HFS.

      (Yes, I've been doing this too long...)

    19. Re:funny, it booted faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Macintosh 128 had 64k of ROM. The Mac Plus doubled it to 128k to support HFS.

      Yes, I have been doing this too long...

    20. Re:funny, it booted faster by againjj · · Score: 1

      EFI OpenBoot firmware has more code than the original Mac OS boot floppy, wich cheated by having 4 megs already in ROM.

      The original had 64K in ROM. The Plus (1986) had 128K in ROM. The II and SE (1987) had 256K. In 1989 it was 512K, and in 1991 it was 1M. Some time in the 90's it moved to 2M then 4M. With system 8, it was then moved to a ROM file, and there were no more ROMs manufactured as part of future Macs. The ROM was not simply dispensed with, because it was easier to make it a soft copy than rewrite a bunch of code.

    21. Re:funny, it booted faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      4 megs in ROM? I don't think so. The machine had a 64kB ROM
      http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Were_Not_Hackers!.txt

    22. Re:funny, it booted faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Modern Macs (...) wake near-instantaneously. Coupled with an OS that can run for weeks without a reboot, I've no complaints.

      You're obviously still running Tiger.

  16. And in other news... Happy 40th PDP-10 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Many of the original processing concepts of the Macintosh 68000 CPU came from Digital Equipment Corporation's PDP-10 which celebrated its 40th birthday last year. The data/address separation as well as the instruction set sequencing via a two-step clock. The PDP-10 "DDT" debugging tool also had an equivalent that could be invoked by using the "programmers switch" (which was a cheap little plastic doohicky which slid into place on the side of the original Macs and, when pressed, would directly activate a switch on the motherboard and drop you into a debugger)

    1. Re:And in other news... Happy 40th PDP-10 by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Its interesting to speculate where DEC might have gone if they had not had such a bad case of the IBMs.

    2. Re:And in other news... Happy 40th PDP-10 by ogdenk · · Score: 1

      I literally shed a tear when DEC got bought by Compaq. They were one of the early pioneers in cost effective computing and had some of the coolest machines I've ever laid hands on. We still have an old AlphaServer 4000 in production use at work.

    3. Re:And in other news... Happy 40th PDP-10 by Guy+Harris · · Score: 4, Informative

      The data/address separation

      Are you referring to the memory buses here? The only data/address separation in the 68K instruction set was the separation between data and address registers, which the PDP-10 didn't have (it just had 16 GPRs).

      The "PDP" that the 68K more closely resembles from a programming point of view is the PDP-11, with more complex addressing modes and an operand/operand orientation rather than the register/memory orientation of the PDP-10.

    4. Re:And in other news... Happy 40th PDP-10 by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Great hardware. We have literally hundreds of DS10s at work and faults are rare. But DEC were terrified of Microsoft. They pushed hard to get Windows NT on alpha and it ran very well but there weren't enough good reasons for people to buy DEC hardware.

      Apple had enough confidence (possibly Jobs's confidence) to go their own way and it paid off.

    5. Re:And in other news... Happy 40th PDP-10 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I was trolling. I just wanted to commemorate the PDP-10 so I just made up a bunch of stuff that sounded plausible.
      Yeah, I run TOPS-20 in SIMH... I Don't really have a PDP-10

    6. Re:And in other news... Happy 40th PDP-10 by ogdenk · · Score: 1

      I always thought NT on Alpha kinda sucked. It's too stale these days as well. Our AlphaServer 4000 runs FreeBSD 6.3 at the school.

      We would love to keep it going but with everyone dropping Alpha support slowly, we are considering just dropping $1,000 to build a low-end socket AM2 quad-core opteron with a SATA RAID.

      I'd take it home but I already have a VAX 4000-200 in my living room as an end table. I don't need any more massive power hungry antiques.

    7. Re:And in other news... Happy 40th PDP-10 by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      The M68K and TMS9900 were both direct descendants of the PDP-11, not the PDP-10. Each took the CISC concept in a slightly different direction, but if you learned any of them at the machine-code level you could quickly pick up the others. The main concept is that an instruction is essentially one word, with an operator being somewhere in the high bits and the operand(s) being in the lower bits. Similar addressing modes, too.

      The VAX was similar, but on steroids and with wildly varying instruction lengths. Actually, operators on the VAX are mainly one byte with variable length operands.

      Sorry, I know this is boring...

      At least, it *should* be :)

  17. Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by Tom+Arneberg · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I got one of the first Macs. It wasn't my first computer with a mouse; we had those at work for chip design. But those cost over $100K each. My fellow engineers couldn't believe that I got a computer at home with a mouse and windows/menus for only $2500!

    It even made it into our family Christmas card photo that year:


    http://arneberg.com/family/xmas/xmas1984.jpg

    (This is my first-ever slashdot post...how do I get a web link to work?)
       

    1. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by LoadWB · · Score: 1

      And if you read here often enough you would know that you have now opened yourself up to an onslaught of jokes about passing or giving birth to that thing.

      Nerd. heheheh

    2. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NERD!.

      Oh wait.

    3. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      You have a 5 digit ID and this is your first post? You've really been lurking for a decade?

    4. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      HTML anchor tag. family picture

    5. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      When a friend of my dads got one of the first macs we went around to his place to remonstrate with him. We pointed out that there was no software to buy for it. You couldn't see much on the tiny screen and the way you used it it looked like a toy.

      But I noticed that they keyboard was small. It only had the buttons you needed, you could select with the mouse, and the whole system left a lot of space on a cluttered desk.

      I wondered where the computer was. In the keyboard or behind the screen? I couldn't figure it out.

    6. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by bored_engineer · · Score: 1

      html is how I've always done it. I'm sure that someone fellow who looks down on mere mortals with disdain will explain that I'm doing it all wrong, though.

    7. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by funky49 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sir,

      You are so awesome and I'm so glad the mother of your child was willing to go along with the picture.

      --
      --- rapper/producer/bachelorette party stripper
    8. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by Locke2005 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Xerox made computers with a GUI and mouse before Apple, but they cost a fortune, and were pieces of feces. The disk drive on the Interlisp D machine I used was powered by a rubber belt (like a vacuum cleaner). And just like a vacuum cleaner, it occasionally popped off or broke. Also, the entire file system was stored in Lisp nodes, so when you deleted a large directory, it stopped doing anything for over a minute while it garbage collected all the deleted files.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    9. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      (This is my first-ever slashdot post...how do I get a web link to work?)

      You have to buy Slashdot Gold to do that.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    10. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by LoneGNUman · · Score: 0

      Are you sure it's yours? It does not have your face.

    11. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by Sentry21 · · Score: 1

      Use HTML.

    12. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 1

      You have a 5 digit ID and this is your first post? You've really been lurking for a decade?

      You'd be surprised. I've got a friend with a fairly low ID, has never posted and gets offered moderation points all the time.

      (I tried to offer advice on how to use those mod points, but they weren't interested)

      There's good reasons to sign up for /. other than posting.

      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    13. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by ZERO1ZERO · · Score: 1
      Holy crap! I thought you were joking but this is one of the most geekiest things I ever saw on slashdot.

      I see the mac and the kitchen sink made it on to 1986's card.

    14. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you post you'll see "Allowed HTML" at the bottom. Use those tags to do things like bold text: [b]TEXT TO BE BOLDED[/b], resulting in TEXT TO BE BOLDED (replace "[" and "]" with less than and greater than signs)

      For links: [a href=http://www.example.com]LINK TEXT[/a], resulting in LINK TEXT

      -- The Helpful Anonymous Coward (THAC)

    15. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by plurgid · · Score: 1

      Waaaahhaaaahoooow man!

      That is hands down the nerdiest thing I've ever seen. And you got your wife to play a long.

      this must have been a different era entirely.

      kudos, many many kudos.
      wow.

    16. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      I had a mouse in my home about the same time. Think Atari ST.

      Oh, and it was 1/2 the cost of the Mac, booted faster and did more.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    17. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That my good man is an awesome picture, I humbly ask your permission to use it as my desk top image.

    18. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you opted for the HTML text entering, then learn some tags, if you are entering plain text, then check the help link in the website header

      finally, if you are a registered user, you can change this option on-the-fly while posting...

      [ironic] yes, this is /. and it's good to learn !

    19. Re:Computer with a mouse AT HOME?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awesome picture.
      You post links <a href="http://arneberg.com/family/xmas/xmas1984.jpg">like this</a>

  18. Alternatively by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This month, I prefer to celebrate the 26th anniversary of the Compaq Portable, the machine that kicked off the process of market competition that resulted in the affordable and open-standards-based systems that the majority of users enjoy today.

    1. Re:Alternatively by multisync · · Score: 1

      Yes, thank you IBM for using off-the-shelf parts to save money. It made it possible for a lot of us to do the same thing and assemble our own systems.

      --
      I don't care why you're posting AC
  19. Presents by hendrix2k · · Score: 2, Funny

    Xerox wanted to send a present, but they decided the GUI they sent for the baby shower is the gift that keeps on giving.

    1. Re:Presents by Spaseboy · · Score: 2, Funny

      It might be a nice gesture for Apple to buy Xerox with some of their pocket change and take it out back and shoot it.

      --
      "I don't want more choice, I just want nicer things!"
      -Jennifer Saunders as Edina Monsoon
  20. Institute for the Future? by microbee · · Score: 1

    And "think tank"?

    I want nothing to do with that.

  21. mac w128K of RAM - so little power, but powerfull by acomj · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It amazes me now, how we computed with so little RAM and no Hard Disk. I don't know how much ram Cell phones have but its probably more..

    Those old macs 8 mhz processor 128 Kbytes (512 soon after.)

    full specs
    http://lowendmac.com/compact/original-macintosh-128k.html

    Of course there were times when those old macs would spit out the disk you were using and ask you to put in the system disks... The Mac SE with harddrive couldn't come soon enough.

  22. Apple is dying by Sans_A_Cause · · Score: 0, Troll

    Dying a long, slow death. Oh god, when will it ever end?

    1. Re:Apple is dying by Tokerat · · Score: 1

      Dying a long, slow death. Oh god, when will it ever end?

      It's not. Get over it.

      --
      CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
    2. Re:Apple is dying by ogdenk · · Score: 5, Funny

      Heh. They've been dying since 1977 according to most industry analysts.

    3. Re:Apple is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's okay. Latin has been dying since 4 September, A.D. 476.

  23. "Is it easy enough for my grandmother to use it?" by bugs2squash · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    "... People on the Macintosh project were the first people to talk about a product in that way."

    Bullshit, I bet that distinction goes to the makers of false teeth or a similar product with geriatric fangirls.

    --
    Nullius in verba
  24. Hat Tip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Thanks, Doug!

    Slashdot Tue Dec 09, 2008: The Mouse Turns 40
    http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/09/163205

    Wikipedia: Douglas Engelbart
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Engelbart

    Wikipedia: The Mother of All Demos
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mother_of_All_Demos

    and of course,

    Folklore.org: 118 stories about the development of Apple's original Macintosh computer, and the people who created it.
    http://www.folklore.org/index.py

  25. Re: first-ever slashdot post...how do I get a link by MRe_nl · · Score: 1

    Instructions for auto-linking are at the bottom of the "Post Comment" page under "URLs".

    cheers.

    --
    "Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
  26. I have a Mac 128 by elmerfud2000 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have a Mac 128 with an Apple Imagewriter, one of the first ones where they used a regular DB25 cable instead of the Appletalk cable. I can't believe its 25 years old. I bought it in 1990 for the printer. I think the lady said she paid $4500 for it. At the time I told her that could buy her a very nice '386

    1. Re:I have a Mac 128 by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Everyone knows that only a Fat Mac will do.

      RAM - it's not as good as ROM, but it will do in a pinch, and you don't have to flash your EEPROM with purple light to get by ...

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  27. Re:mac w128K of RAM - so little power, but powerfu by Sans_A_Cause · · Score: 1

    That was probably the decendent of AppleWorks for the Apple II. That suite of programs was a spreadsheet, database manager, AND word processor and ran on a computer with a whopping 64k of RAM.

  28. Memory Lane... by CrazyTalk · · Score: 1
    Macs I have owned (or used):

    512K Fat Mac in Grad School - our lab bought a couple of these when they came out

    Mac LC - my first Mac. Cashed in my 401k and bought it, a color monitor, and printer for about $6,000

    Mac Centris 660 AV - Two processors, and speech recognition! Sort of.

    iBook G4 - needed something to sync with my iTunes, and my PC just wasn't cutting it.

    And now....Shiny new iMac used mostly to run World of Warcraft

    1. Re:Memory Lane... by dangitman · · Score: 5, Funny

      Isn't it funny... the more powerful computers get, the things we do with them get lamer and more trivial. 1984 - testing and developing scientific theories on a machine with 128K RAM; 2009 - posting on slashdot with 4GB RAM.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    2. Re:Memory Lane... by extrasolar · · Score: 1

      I somehow doubt that. What were they doing back them? Printing out ASCII porn and war-dialing their local area codes to be like the kids on War Games.

  29. Macs boot quickly by ciaohound · · Score: 1

    Have you tried a Mac? It powers on and boots in less time than it takes to post on /.

    --
    Oh, yeah, it's not easy to pad these out to 120 characters.
    1. Re:Macs boot quickly by Tokerat · · Score: 1, Funny

      That's because it takes 15 minutes for the "Preview" button script to complete in Firefox for some damn reason...

      --
      CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
    2. Re:Macs boot quickly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even on my Mac! (In Camino, no less.)

    3. Re:Macs boot quickly by g0at · · Score: 1

      Same in Safari. Is this a Mac-only problem?

    4. Re:Macs boot quickly by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      The preview button shows up quickly on this PS3 running Firefox under YDL 6.1 Once the tab is fully loaded (a couple of seconds) it's there.

      Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux ppc64; en-US; rv:1.9.0.5) Gecko/2009011000 CentOS/3.0.5-1 Firefox/3.0.5

      I can also tell you that the Slashdot main page will lock up the PS3's Netfront based GameOS web browser. So maybe there's some funky code on Slashdot.

  30. Re:mac w128K of RAM - so little power, but powerfu by Amazing+Quantum+Man · · Score: 1

    Obviously, you didn't have a Mac Plus with a (25-pin) SCSI port.

    --
    Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
  31. 25 years of Macintosh: Ars Technica's favorite Mac by IYagami · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Interesting opinions from the ArsTechnica editors: http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/25-years-of-macintosh.ars

  32. Re:mac w128K of RAM - so little power, but powerfu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My old TI-99/4A had a 16-bit 3 Mhz processor and 16K. yeah baby. It's amazing how clean your code gets when you only have 16k to play with....

  33. Re:mac w128K of RAM - so little power, but powerfu by ogdenk · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ummm.... the Mac plus had SCSI and the 512 supported a hard drive they made for the floppy port. I think that drive worked with the 128 as well. The floppy port HDD's were pretty slow but they worked.

    When the Plus was a new machine, I had an Atari ST at home though. The ST was cheaper, just as fast, had built-in MIDI, an awesome audio chipset, color graphics, an ugly GUI and much cooler games. I got a Mac Plus later.

  34. I still have mine... and it still works. by phallstrom · · Score: 1

    My dad bought one when it came out... passed it onto me, and it's now sitting in my kids room where they either pretend to work or play some basic games on it. Only problem I've had is the video went out and had to reinforce the connection a bit, but that did give me a chance to look at the engraved signatures on the inside.

    Not a bad investment all things considered... wish other computers would last that long...

    1. Re:I still have mine... and it still works. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've got a Mac Classic and a Mac Classic II. Not as old as the 1984 Mac, but still fairly dated. They both work fine, except for how they're utterly useless to me because I can't find any equipment to network them, which would at least allow me to set them up as.. I dunno.. Scrolling news tickers.. or.. weather information displays.. or something.

      Right now they're bookends.

    2. Re:I still have mine... and it still works. by ponraul · · Score: 1

      Null Modem+pppd+System 7.0.1*. "Problem" Solved.

      * 4MiB required.

  35. It's not easy enough for my grandmother to use by Locke2005 · · Score: 3, Funny

    My grandmother's dead, you insensitive clod!

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:It's not easy enough for my grandmother to use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's okay! So is my first Mac!

    2. Re:It's not easy enough for my grandmother to use by TwistedSymmetry · · Score: 1

      Wait, exactly how easy to use would it have to be for your grandmother to use it, then?

  36. OT: Sig by Hatta · · Score: 4, Funny

    [ My car's odometer reads in pentaparsecs. My speedometer in parsecs/hour. ]

    Does your car appear blue from the front, and red from behind?

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    1. Re:OT: Sig by Neanderthal+Ninny · · Score: 1

      Or does it appear like a streak like in those space movies.
      Happy Birthday Macintosh.

    2. Re:OT: Sig by TwistedSymmetry · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, it just reads zero all the time. It's hideously impractical.

    3. Re:OT: Sig by Cokeisbomb · · Score: 1

      No but your mom does

    4. Re:OT: Sig by OglinTatas · · Score: 1

      "Does your car appear blue from the front, and red from behind?"

      Yes. With those obnoxious xenon headlights

  37. Re:mac w128K of RAM - so little power, but powerfu by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 2

    I have a Mac Plus. I got it specifically to run a particular version of AppleShare that allowed you to boot an Apple IIgs over an AppleTalk connection. And I never got around to actually doing it. Hmm, now there's something I can look into doing once I get that desk rebuilt. I know I've got an old 40 MB SCSI drive lying around somewhere....

    --
    Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  38. Like the phone? by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

    "The Macintosh demonstrated that it was possible and profitable to create a machine to be used by millions and millions of people"

    Wasn't that already well demonstrated by the phone?

  39. Re:mac w128K of RAM - so little power, but powerfu by dangitman · · Score: 1

    I only had 64k of RAM in 1984, you insensitive clod!

    --
    ... and then they built the supercollider.
  40. easy enough for my grandmother? by brre · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The gold standard now for personal electronics is, "Is it easy enough for my grandmother to use it?"

    My last three consumer electronics purchases (DVR, car audio, component HD radio) all fail that test handily. Not even close.

    So 25 years later, there's a lot of room for improvement toward meeting that standard.

    Congrats Apple on meeting it earlier and more often than most.

  41. Thank you, Apple, for 25 years of brilliance by QuatermassX · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I remember the first time I tried using a Mac - in a sort of technology "cave" in the J.C. Penny's in Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania back in 1985. It felt so strange, but just seemed to make sense - especially when I went back to home muck about on my TRS-80 Colour Computer.

    Flash-forward a few years later and I go to university and leave my beloved dot-matrix printer behind. I joined the newspaper and became very well acquainted by this application humorously called "Quark Xpress" and the Mac SE/80. Now this little thing seemed perfect - full WYSIWYG printing, networking, and fun version of Risk to while away the hours. After a little practice, I started to do things I never thought I could do ...

    That continued a few years later when I started investigating using my Mac at home for simple movie editing with this new piece of software called "QuickTime". Unfortunately for me, Dad had bought a Performa 450, so no movie editing for me!

    After Windows 95 was released, I dated a Windows-using girl and drifted away from the Mac.

    Then everything changed in 1997 and 1998. I finally began receiving a decent pay packet, moved in with the girl and splurged on a beige Mac G3 minitower (that I sold the next year to buy the Blue and White minitower).

    I started doing things that I always wanted to do, but never thought possible - programming screen savers, scanning negatives and working on my photography, using a beta of this funny app from Macromedia called "FinalCut" to edit some commercials, then getting hired at a large publishing company because I was a paid-up member of the Apple club.

    More than anything else (aesthetics, politics, etc), my Macintosh PC's have always enabled me to fully express my creativity with a minimum of fuss. Windows computers just give me headaches and have for years - and always seem to be working against me.

    I hope the next 25 years (and pretty much the next third of my life if I'm fortunate) will be filled with Apple-creative things that similarly enrich and enable my creativity and make life all the sweeter.

    1. Re:Thank you, Apple, for 25 years of brilliance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dunno. I type this from my first Mac, a late 2008 MacBook... and I couldn't agree less with the thought that the Mac has made things "easier to use" since the DOS/Win3.11 days ended. Ever since Windows 95, I've really failed to see the advantage in ease of use.

      Further, I've done Photoshop in a Windows environment for over 10 years now. The Mac just didn't impress me when I was learning Photoshop on it. It crashed as much as Windows. It crashed because it ran out of RAM (unlike Windows), and the teachers wouldn't allow me to turn on disk paging, even though I knew it would fix my problem. Mac users were too obtuse to understand that "Slight performance hit is fine instead of crashing." It was religious belief combined with fairly run-of-the-mill hardware and an OS with a ludicrous out of the box config. No disk paging when running RAM intense apps? What the hell?

      I don't know for certain why the Mac remains entrenched as "easier to use" and "the tool for creative types", save for years of inertia and legends from the DOS days about the easy to use Mac. Long ago the ease of use thing was true. It hasn't been true for a long time though.

      Don't get me wrong, I like this MacBook. It's a very solidly put together system, and OS X is a very nice unix. But I'll be purchasing CS 4 for Windows once again, this time not only because I can't see why the Mac matters, but because the Windows version got 64 bit support first.

      I'm glad the Mac has been there as long as it has, giving competition and inspiration to Windows and even Linux... but I still find some of the Mac worship that continues to this day quite puzzling.

  42. What I Remember Macintosh For by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What I remember Macintosh for:

    1: Sealing up the original Mac while Apple II and IBM PC were open architectures.
    2: Comparably higher prices for equivalent performance and peripherals.
    3: Absolute hostility to clone makers, which allowed Apple to pass on their inefficiency to their customers.
    4: Floppy disc incompatibility with other more prevalent systems for far too long.
    5: Threats to discontinue warranty coverage from anybody who dared crack the sealed-box open.
    6: Taking forever to provide an internal hard drive long after their PC competition and 3rd party suppliers (anyone remember HyperDrive) had shown them how to do it.
    7: Needing to dump Steve Jobs before an Open Mac arrived.
    8: The most expensive (by far) laser printer on the market when the excellent HP LaserJet met many user's needs with the same print engine for far less money.
    9: 50% profit margins and proud of it!

    Yes there's more, but this was a good enough start for now.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:What I Remember Macintosh For by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Licensing fees so that games weren't 'welcome'. (Or so I was told, might be an urban myth).

      Constant disappointment when I would realize that I would need an IBM compatible computer to run [INSERT New Application].

      Later when CDs came out those stupid absurd CD Cassettes.

      When they moved the power button to the keyboard so that books being moved around on your desk would turn off your computer... oh wait it's STILL like that. Grrrrrr.

    2. Re:What I Remember Macintosh For by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some would argue that they are all small prices to pay for a decent computer. Unless you're an OSS zealot or something.

    3. Re:What I Remember Macintosh For by kchrist · · Score: 1

      9: 50% profit margins and proud of it!

      You say that like there's something wrong with it. Why wouldn't they be? If I had a product making those kinds of margins I'd be damn proud of it too.

      And before you say that they should give up some profits in order to lower their prices, do note that they seem to be doing pretty well for themselves with things as they are, leaving the low-end market to Dell and the like.

    4. Re:What I Remember Macintosh For by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      8: The most expensive (by far) laser printer on the market when the excellent HP LaserJet met many user's needs with the same print engine for far less money.

      Although you agree that Apple made pretty awesome printers, right? I bought my LaserWriter Select 360 fiveteen years ago and still use it as my main printer. The toners last forever and as opposed to modern printers you don't have to replace various oils, rollers and whatnot on an annual basis.

      Today it's connected to a PC running FreeBSD and shared with the network using Cups.

    5. Re:What I Remember Macintosh For by firewood · · Score: 1

      9: 50% profit margins and proud of it!

      Yes, and that's important, because of the dozens and dozens of computer companies from back then trying to do something unique and interesting, they are one of the very few companies actually still independent, and still in business.

      (IBM's still in business, but they no longer make PC's).

      .

    6. Re:What I Remember Macintosh For by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) IBM MicroChannel (MCA) was not - only the widespread use of previous "AT-based" technology prevented IBM from "closing" the entire architecture and ask royalties for nuts&bolts

      2) I'm pretty sure that you weren't an early adopter... heck, 25 years ago DOS wasn't even graphical, how can you even compare the systems' performance

      3) Apple opened to clones in the late '80s but for some reason people perceived those as "cheaper-built" and preferred original hardware (you can spot a pattern here... "Vista capable" anyone?)

      4) You missed history 101, Apple *was* the prevalent system in the '80s (at least in schools and hi-tech industries, true: bin-counters were using DOS and early games playing on CGA, or monochrome Hercules)

      5) I dare you to find any appliance in your house *today* which doesn't have the same licence restriction...(even for Windows, the licence prevents you from telling how slow it is)

      6) ?? clarify question, other posts have indicated that an HD version soon followed

      7) you must be smoking mushrooms

      8) yeah, and it didn't even have the vocal feedbacks that the one in NEXTapp had...

      9) who wouldn't...

    7. Re:What I Remember Macintosh For by againjj · · Score: 1

      What I remember Macintosh for:

      1: Sealing up the original Mac while Apple II and IBM PC were open architectures.

      Remember who the market was intended to be. They wanted the computer to be an appliance like a toaster. Whether it was the best thing is a huge discussion involving goals, purpose, education, reliability, etc. Basically, it comes down to some good and some bad consequences for Apple and the industry at large.

      2: Comparably higher prices for equivalent performance and peripherals.

      You were buying more than performance and a functionality checklist. You were buying a new way of doing things, an integrated, "Just works", WYSIWYG experience. If you did not want what Apple was selling, you were free to not buy it. But, they were not selling the same thing for a higher price.

      3: Absolute hostility to clone makers, which allowed Apple to pass on their inefficiency to their customers.

      ..., which allowed them to make a larger profit by charging more.

      4: Floppy disc incompatibility with other more prevalent systems for far too long.

      It was kind of cool being able to cram 10% more onto a floppy disk than a PC, though it did mean that that the drives cost more. Oh, and most OSes had incompatible formats -- FAT was simply the most prevalent one. It kind of sucks when the non-leaders are blamed for not conforming to the leaders. Linux is an example where it is blamed for not implementing every driver that is implemented for Windows. Certainly, there are good reasons for conforming, but it is not a one-sided argument.

      5: Threats to discontinue warranty coverage from anybody who dared crack the sealed-box open.

      This was/is the case with most devices containing a CRT.

      6: Taking forever to provide an internal hard drive long after their PC competition and 3rd party suppliers (anyone remember HyperDrive) had shown them how to do it.

      That was annoying.

      7: Needing to dump Steve Jobs before an Open Mac arrived.

      "Correlation is not causation." Jobs had actually already seen the need to head that direction, but only after the initial design was created (before then, he was dead set against it, due to the initial goals, though he saw the light later -- that was why the 512K came out so quickly, with mods to the board to make it easier to upgrade memory by soldering). There was a lot going on that delayed the Plus and subsequent models from coming out, and the power struggle was one of them, but not a resistance to the idea from Jobs (at least after the release).

      8: The most expensive (by far) laser printer on the market when the excellent HP LaserJet met many user's needs with the same print engine for far less money.

      So you buy an HP. What's the deal? And some people will argue, of course, that the Apple printer was better....

      9: 50% profit margins and proud of it!

      I would be proud of strong profits too. That's what makes a company. Though it tends to not go over well with the customers.

      Yes there's more, but this was a good enough start for now.

  43. Time to make a Mac Fishbowl by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2

    I have a Mac SE (dual drive) and Apple II+ sitting in my garage.

    I think it's time to celebrate, and turn the Mac SE into a Fishbowl with silver sparkles for the anniversary, and the Apple II+ into the pump cover.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Time to make a Mac Fishbowl by Hatta · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe you should find someone who would appreciate them and use them instead. They're not making any more of those things you know.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:Time to make a Mac Fishbowl by againjj · · Score: 1

      Those that appreciate them can buy them cheaply. And making a Mac fishbowl is a good way to appreciate it -- it is a classic mod.

  44. Re:Memory Lane...MEMORIES BEST LEARNED FROM by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Mac LC - my first Mac. Cashed in my 401k and bought it, a color monitor, and printer for about $6,000

    A truly stupid (among many truly stupid) reasons to cash on ones 401k. Unless it's provided you 10X the income since, and you've stashed that income away for retirement, a very bad move indeed.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  45. Tag abuse by l00sr · · Score: 1

    Slightly OT, but if I wanted to read such insightful commentary as 'fuckthefuckingfuckers' posted conveniently right under the article summary, I'd go to digg. Slashdot tags are, in their current incarnation, are a troll's wet dream, and I'm frankly sick of it. Yes, I know you can turn them off, but it saddens me to see such Slashdot sink to such levels.

  46. My mom by spitzak · · Score: 1

    I remember borrowing one from work so I could show my family how a gui would work.

    My mom had an interesting misunderstanding of the mouse: she kept moving it as though it moved the screen, while the pointer would stay still, ie she moved it backwards from how you would. This seemed quite logical to her and she did it repeatly.

    I think that is interesting that a lot of things are not as intuitive as you think.

    1. Re:My mom by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      My mother likes to line the mouse up on a button, draw her hand back, then jab at the mouse button with her finger. Inevitably this knocks the pointer off the component and she has to start again.

      For years she has been destroying small electronic devices by breaking switches and battery compartment covers. I don't know what we can do about it. Her father was an optical mechanic and worked with small components all his life. He didn't have the same problem.

  47. Re:Memory Lane...MEMORIES BEST LEARNED FROM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Though not at all stupid if it opened up a new career in Mac software development, for example. Every investment will be cashed in at some point.

  48. What's with the history rewrite? by prowler1 · · Score: 0

    I am not to sure why they are using quotes such as:

    "The Macintosh demonstrated that it was possible and profitable to create a machine to be used by millions and millions of people"

    Especially when you had people like Jack Tramiel since the 70's using sayings such as:

    "We need to make computers for the masses, not the classes!"

    Commodore and Radio Shack both produced and pushed the home computer into peoples homes back in the 70's by making them affordable. Not to mention I think the Commodore 64 celebrated it's 25th birthday a year ago.

    Don't get me wrong, there is a recently purchased iMac in my place and I am the first to admit that Apple in its recent offerings of the last few years have done a fantastic job but real credit where credit is due.

  49. Wow, I feel old. by Ifthir · · Score: 1

    I still remember when my dad bought the Mac 128k. At the time I was blown away by the technology that was in that machine, which had an HD the size of my last paper for school...

  50. For something thats easy enough for a grandmother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Heh but it still isn't cheap enought for a grandmother to use it.

  51. Super Bowl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This well may be the first time in a long time another Apple ads airs during the Super Bowl. However, it may not appear on the telecast. Look elsewhere. ;)

  52. Amiga 25th: 2010-07-24 by meehawl · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    The Mac was nice for 1984 but had that *tiny* screen and was a stunningly boring monochrome. Only a short year later the Amiga beamed in like a super-advanced visitor from the future, demonstrating what a technicolour, multimedia, multitasking world we'd end up living in. Next to the Amiga, the Macs of the 1980s behaved like overfed, pedigreed, retarded puppies. Early on, ironically, the only PC that could give the Amiga a run for the money was the Apple II GS, which Apple seemed to have hated with a passion.

    I guess the thing that really tickled me about the Amiga was also its chameleon-like ability to perfectly emulate a Macintosh in a pinch. I recall in the late-80s/early90s actually buying an Amiga desktop publishing rig *and* a Mac hardware emulator dongle because together it was still cheaper than the equivalent Apple rig by around 50%. We met the design requirements, and got to play Populous as well...

    Anyway, I'm looking forward to the 1985-07-24 anniversary, and remembering how one of the great tech advancement opportunities of recent history was so comprehensively fucked up.

    --

    Da Blog
    1. Re:Amiga 25th: 2010-07-24 by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      The Mac was nice for 1984 but had that *tiny* screen and was a stunningly boring monochrome. Only a short year later the Amiga

      I wouldn't call 18 months a short year. And the Amiga had a 0" screen.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  53. Newbies don't buy Macs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It always annoys me when I read the myth that the Mac is a computer for newbies. It isn't. It's priced WAY out of their range, and my experience is that the only people who buy Macs are knowledgeable users -- even power users.

    I'd love to get a Mac for my elderly parents, because I really do think they'd find them easier to use. But I can't because they're about a third more expensive than a standard computer.

    Another issue with modern Macs is their freakin' annoying focus on multimedia. A modern Mac is really turning into an iPod docking station, and is becoming less and less of a serious computer. Microsoft Office, you say? I challenge you to use Office 2008 for anything more complex than writing a letter, and NOT have it not crash. The damn thing falls over more than a drunken toddler.

  54. What the facts show by Budenny · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    "The Macintosh demonstrated that it was possible and profitable to create a machine to be used by millions and millions of people,'"

    No it did not.

    http://www.jeremyreimer.com/total_share.html

  55. CD Cassettes by IL-CSIXTY4 · · Score: 1

    You mean the CD caddies? Those weren't exclusive to Apple -- pretty much all the first-generation CD-ROM drives used them. The PSP still uses a smaller variant.

  56. Re:mac w128K of RAM - so little power, but powerfu by mactoids · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I have some fond memories of my first Mac ...a Mac SE. What a great computer but it does bring a smile when I think about my iPhone having more memory than my desktop from those days. Nine inch monochrome screen and 20 meg hard drive ...now that was living, baby ...woohoo! It sure was sweet at the time, that's for sure =)

  57. Dear Apple, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am a homosexual. I bought an Apple computer because of its well earned reputation for being "the" gay computer. Since I have become an Apple owner, I have been exposed to a whole new world of gay friends. It is really a pleasure to meet and compute with other homos such as myself. I plan on using my new Apple computer as a way to entice and recruit young schoolboys into the homosexual lifestyle; it would be so helpful if you could produce more software which would appeal to young boys. Thanks in advance.

    with much gayness,
    Father Randy "Pudge" O'Day, S.J.

  58. Mac 128K Video Out? by meehawl · · Score: 1

    My original compact Mac from that era didn't have a video out. Did yours? With no video out, you were stuck with that 23 cm porthole/screen and you were screwed if the video flyback transformer crapped out. Which was pretty much almost always, eventually.

    By comparison, the Amiga shipped with both composite and analog RGB outputs, so you could pick any screen size available.

    --

    Da Blog
    1. Re:Mac 128K Video Out? by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      Wooosh, there go the goal-posts.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  59. Re:mac w128K of RAM - so little power, but powerfu by I_want_information · · Score: 1

    Wow. And I think that the Hypercard that ran on the IIgs was the only version that had native color support...

  60. Association Football? by meehawl · · Score: 1

    I wasn't aware you were playing a game?

    Let's face it, the original Macintosh, like the G1 iPhone, succeeded despite its many and manifest hardware limitations. If you ever tried to copy a floppy disc on the original Mac, you'll know what I mean. And if you tried to anything visually or sonically artistic then, well, the Mac was not the machine for you for a long, long time.

    --

    Da Blog
  61. Happy Birthday to my old Mac by marciot · · Score: 1

    As a tribute to the Mac's birthday, I just powered up my old Mac Plus, which I grew up with, and made a birthday card for it in HyperCard. I wish I hadn't lended out my digital camera, as this is totally a Kodak moment that I wish I could save for posterity. Plus, without photographic evidence, nobody is gonna believe I'm enough of a nerd to actually have a working Mac Plus lying around.

  62. A Mac Plus wishes the Mac a Happy Birthday by marciot · · Score: 1

    Here's a shot of my Mac Plus wishing the Macintosh a happy birthday. Sorry for the grainy shot, this is a really crappy web cam I had in my rubbish pile!

    Mac Plus Birthday Card

    This is a Mac Plus which I grew up with and restored to working order about a year ago (by replacing a busted electrolytic cap). I also upgraded it to 4MB of RAM, added an external SCSI hard disk, an Iomega Zip drive, and loaded up System 7 on it. I slapped together the birthday greeting in HyperCard 1.2.5 :)

  63. Gui: a blessing or a dead end? by Reservoir+Penguin · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one who believes that GUIs are a dead end and only CLI gives you real power and flexibility?

    --
    US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
    1. Re:Gui: a blessing or a dead end? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try operating FinalCut or Photoshop with a CLI...

  64. Re:Memory Lane...MEMORIES BEST LEARNED FROM by CrazyTalk · · Score: 1

    No kidding. But everyone is entitled to be young and stupid once.

  65. "just" click on Safari.... by adrianmsmith · · Score: 1

    Why should your grandmother care? If she wants to surf the web, she clicks on Safari in the dock. ......

    How on earth would anyone know that "Safari" was a web browser?

    Everyone who visits my flat, and uses my computer (a Mac) asks me how to get a browser up. It's not obvious.

    Contrast that with Windows, where you click on "Start" and there is "Internet Explorer".