Slashdot Mirror
Xbox 360 Update Will Lock Out Unauthorized Storage
itwbennett writes "The other shoe has dropped on the upcoming preview program for the next Xbox 360 update and it's going to cost you. In a post on the Major Nelson blog, Xbox's Larry Hryb reveals that this next update will lock-out unauthorized storage devices. As blogger Peter Smith reminds us, 'the Xbox 360 comes in two (currently) SKUs, one with a hard drive, and one without. The drive-less Xbox 360 Arcade unit is cheap ($199) but to realistically use it, you'll need to buy a "Memory Unit" (basically a proprietary USB stick) or an Xbox hard drive.... A 512 MB Microsoft branded Memory Unit goes for $29.99 at BestBuy.com. A 2 GB third party Memory Unit from Datel goes for $39.99, and the Datel unit is expandable using microSD cards....If you bought the Datel and it's full of data, between now and the launch of the new update you're going to have to run out and buy 4 of the Microsoft units at $29.99 each, or more likely, pick up the $99.99 60GB Live Starter Pack for Xbox 360.'"
... or more likely, pick up the $99.99 60GB Live Starter Pack for Xbox 360.
Or (in an even more likely scenario if you're reading Slashdot) you will opt to do it yourself to get twice that storage for a little over half the cost. This is, of course, assuming that locking out "unauthorized storage" does not also target in some crazy way locking out hard drives.
My work here is dung.
...and boom goes the Dynamite.
just when the hackers were getting ready to focus their efforts on the iPhone and Apple, there you go again, throwing down the gauntlet. Are you that much of an attention hog?
-- All this knowledge is giving me a raging brainer.
Why are micro$soft forcing users to dump a legally bought device, to use their one? -security -to protect the user's data from evil viruses Micro$oft, nothing but greed.
My four year old X360 died two months ago. Not a Red Ring Of Death, it went completely inert. No light at all. Swapping the power brick with a couple borrowed ones confirmed the unit failure. I had upgraded it to a 120G official MS hard drive a year ago.
I bought the arcade unit because [1] I could just plug the old hard drive into it and [2] as far as I could determine it was the model with the latest, greatest chip set that had all known issues solved. Works great.
And remember that any attempt to circumvent locking out third-party memory is a heinous violation of the DMCA and will leave *you* the crimino-consumer liable for a big fine or jail.
Meanwhile the Feds looked at Microsoft's Monopoly and decided it all soft, fluffy and harmless.
Where's my Hope and Change?
> Biden was one of only four Senators invited to a champagne reception with Jack Valenti for his work on the DMCA
http://techliberation.com/2008/08/25/biden-on-tech-policy/
This vendor lock-in is annoying.
My PC games are better than my 360 games anyway.
I think I have finally been nudged out of the console market.
I find Microsoft's willingness to squeeze for storage interesting in two respects: One, it suggests a very high level of optimism about their position in the market. Two, it suggests that they don't much care about, or aren't making much money from, downloadable offerings for the Xbox(or that they view those offerings as being extremely compelling and likely to drive consumer behavior).
If they weren't confident of their position, and were actively trying to drive down the perceived cost of their product, storage would be a natural target. Just let people use bog-standard flash drives for game storage, and the market will continually release cheaper ones faster than any one company could even do design revisions. Same basic idea with basic HDDs. The fact that Microsoft isn't doing that suggests that they are very confident in their price point.
As for downloads, if Microsoft were making good money on those, they would want users to have huge hard drives, rather than limping along on a nasty little 512meg card. Again, they don't seem to be thus motivated.
Locking out the competitor's product should be illegal. If you can't compete because your product is overpriced, you shouldn't be propped up. Yes that may mean that people have to pay the true cost of a console or printer or other device, as it isn't subsidised by content/ink etc. It's called honesty. Manufacturers should try it some time.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Stuff like this is why I still haven't bought an X-Box, PS3, or Wii ... I'm so sick of this proprietary crap. I'm just waiting for an open source gaming system ... oh yeah ... I've got a PC :)
You can buy 60GB for $99 or "stick it to the man" by paying $29 for a 2GB third party device?
I'm so sick of this proprietary crap.
So you go for the game with no LAN play that you have to connect to proprietary Blizzard Servers? At least consoles give you little to no expectation of openness.
Anything can be found funny, from a certain point of view.
Locking out the competitor's product should be illegal.
No, because, this is a subsidy of the competition. Next thing you know, you'd have to hold your competitor's hand, work together on some product, watch your own share evaporate....
This is my sig.
Unauthorized as in non-Microsoft or not Microsoft approved?
If they lock out even 3rd party devices, aren't they jumping straight into "abusive monopoly" territory?
I recently bought a PS3 and despite what I've come to expect from Sony, it is probably more open than any other game console I've bought. Use any bluetooth headset for voice chat, use any USB hard drive for storage, replace the internal hard drive with any one that fits, I think that's pretty cool. I bought the older model and installed OpenSUSE 11.1 without much of a hitch, although 256MB of memory makes it pretty useless for most tasks. The PS3 was happy to backup the hard drive contents to my iPod before I repartitioned it for the "Other OS" and I restored the contents just as easily. You're right though, it's still nowhere near as open or as useful as a PC, but so many games come with system-bogging, glitch-prone DRM these days I tend to prefer the plug-n-play nature of a console.
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
Yeah, it'll be great to play StarCraft 2 on a bunch of home built computers on your private home network! Ohhhh, yeah, that's right they took that you so you still have to connect to Battle.Net in order to play a LAN multiplayer game.
It's also really awesome that they're launching it for not one but two open source platforms! Oh, right, forgot... Windows and OS X aren't actually open source.
But yeah! Right there with ya man! I'm so sick of this proprietary crap too! I just can't wait for Blizzard to finish making their product which includes pretty much a custom built set of code that is not available to anyone but Blizzard employees... making it not really an open product.
Hmm... well, guess its not as open souce as I thought but woo, man that spin was great for about 15 seconds!
Linux!!!! Wooo! *kegstand*
"Don't feel bad for me child; I'm the monster that hides under your bed."
But Apple blocking the Pre from working with iTunes isn't bad?
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
I'd Like to point out that you can upgrade the PS3 Hard Drive, and still keep your warranty.
i luke turtles
The drive-less Xbox 360 Arcade unit is cheap ($199) but to realistically use it, you'll need to buy a "Memory Unit" (basically a proprietary USB stick) or an Xbox hard drive.... A 512 MB Microsoft branded Memory Unit goes for $29.99 at BestBuy.com.
The current version of the Arcade comes with 512M internal memory, so throw this whole statement out the window.
This will kill them in the battle against the PS3. Sony make it so easy, for a start every PS3 comes with a hard drive, so games developers can assume that there is bulk persistent storage there and take advantage of it. You can also use USB mass storage devices. You can also upgrade the internal hard drive with undoing just a couple of screws, and it's all supported.
Sony have an easy way for you to back up your PS3 to an external USB hard drive, you then insert any laptop hard drive (I went with a 7.2k one and some things are noticeably faster) and you then restore your system onto the new hard drive. All without paying Sony an extra cent.
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
I'm not a modder or hacker or care to use third party hardware but I don't like getting my cage rattled every time I turn around. It seems like they time it brilliantly so every time I weaken and consider getting an Xbox I get reminded why I avoided them. Between hardware issues, HD falling on it's face, update issues and Microsoft's patented wild hairs up their asses I live in fear of the things. Ever consider releasing a gamebox that works and not fuck with it? I know you would have had my business years ago.
This is something I've been wondering about for a while with devices that receive software updates. People base their purchasing decisions on the list of features announced for the devices, the payoff of what features you get against the price. Then, as part of an upgrade, the manufacturer deliberately cripples part of the device and removes some functionality. This removal of support for third-party storage is a good example, or Amazon pushing an "update" to remove the text-to-speech feature for many (all?) books.
There are all sorts of arguments made about software because we're typically sold licences, not an actual copy of the software. But in cases like this, we've actually bought a physical object. It's now ours, not the manufacturer's. So do they really still have the legal right to reach out an remove features? They advertised a function, which it now doesn't have. It feels like a sort of retroactive false advertising. A lot of Xbox owners will now need to spend extra money simply to restore the original functions; if they'd known this was necessary before purchase they might only have been willing to buy the XBox at a correspondingly lower price, if at all. So as MS have changed their end of this bargain, surely their customers should have the right to change theirs? A partial refund (to represent a lower original price) or the option of a full refund both seem fair to me,
I know people can, in principle, unplug their XBox to avoid accepting this update but then, again, they're losing the functionality that was originally advertised and that they originally paid for. Does this seem fair to anyone? Does it seem legal?
Bean counters.. may they perish under the weight of a thousand pod husks.
This is the wave of the future with all devices.
You don't need to upgrade it yourself, let Microsoft give you storage, for a "small monthly fee".
Next will be, you don't need to "own" a PC, or software, rent it, for a couple of "small monthly fees"
Let someone else manage your data, for a small monthly fee.
Let someone else update your programs, for a small monthly fee.
Let someone else manage the hardware, for a small monthly fee.
You will pay your "small monthly fees" and you will get NO WARRANTY, NO FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, NO RECOURSE, NO REFUNDS, and NO SECURITY.
Most of the caps text is taken from the license agreement from most 'online only' software.
Think it won't work? It already does.
You don't "own" your cellphone, SIM card, or it's data. You simply rent it, for a "small monthly fee".
Good luck selling any of it, getting a decent warranty, or being able to cancel your contract.
Small Monthly Fees, get used to paying them , for everything.
You all did it to yourselves. I tried to warn caution when Microsoft entered the console market, but all you people would do was hug them for Halo. They're like Wal-Mart, they move in, offer you low prices, then when the competition is smeared, they take you for everything you have. Maybe next time MegaCorp shows up and goes "I'll give you a good deal if your forsake the competition" you'll stop and go: "Hmmm...did this work out for me last time?"
So, you can no longer buy Playstations? Wiis are completely gone from the world?
MS isn't a monopoly in the console market. If this action of theirs annoys the consumers, they'll buy a different machine. Because there's no monopoly.
So...what did you want the government to do here, again?
I do have to agree with you on the lack of LAN play, but perhaps that will change in the future.
Clearly they're trying to prevent piracy, but maybe a future update, once sales have slowed, will include LAN play.
It'll be a cold day in hell when I let them... Ummm. Did you say Xbox? Oh. I don't have one of those. Never mind. -- This is how most of the general public will respond.
Apple isn't blocking the Pre from working with iTunes. Apple is blocking the Pre from working with iTunes by pretending it's an iPod. If Palm had used supported APIs (say, by letting you create a "Palm Pre" playlist and then reading the songs from that playlist to sync to the Pre) there wouldn't be a problem. Palm cheaped out to avoid having to write their own sync application (which is crazy, because they made the best handheld sync I've ever used) and used a hack instead.
People expect publishers to lock out hacks. They don't expect them to lock out stuff using standard APIs.
I'm still waiting for AMD to create their own console. They can build all the expensive parts in-house, except for an optical drive.
But the fact that the Linux graphics and sound stacks are nowhere near complete and stable disillusions me regarding the feasibility of using it as a console OS. Neither users nor developers like their consoles stuttering, hanging or crashing.
My PS3 has a slot for SD and Compact flash, in addition to ProDuo memory (non sony works fine) cards and USB, and the installation manual has instructions on swapping out the internal HDD with any 2.5" SATA drive you want.
The only drawbacks, and these are minor, is that USB devices have to be FAT32 unless you installed linux (there's instuctions in the manual for making the PS3 dual boot as well), and if you use too big of a screwdriver, you'll strip the screws on the HDD sled.
Clearly they're trying to prevent piracy
Every time they do that it is the customers get screwed. Lets see here, you get rootkits because of "piracy", you get updates that can break your console because of "piracy" (such as the Wii update that disabled homebrew and there are many many things you can do via homebrew that isn't piracy), etc. There isn't a single console that has been truly killed because of "piracy" that had everything going for it. The most cited example is the Dreamcast which had a host of problems including lack of DVD support which the PS2 promised, lack of good games, etc. and that kills a console more than piracy can ever.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
With the huge failure rate (I read one time it was close to %54 red ring of death for the xbox), and the constant vendor lock-in feature removal I am glad I have stayed with the PC. I know quite a few others that have given up on consoles and gone back to the PC (although some of them were because the gaming on a PC was better)
but perhaps that will change in the future
My money is on: "It won't." And you can quote me on that.
They aren't going to patch in LAN if they have a guaranteed lock on all the users playing it. The only way I can see it getting put in is if people didn't buy the game and informed Blizzard that LAN play was the reason... which they won't do.
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
I guess I'm NOT going to be buying an XBox for Christmas this year. It was down to the PS3 and the XBox. Now, I'll have to take a second look at the Wii. Any /.ers have preferences out there as far as game quality vs price? (yeah, like I have to ask a ./er for an opinion)
Why can't we go back to using jumpers to configure slot adapter cards? Why? I say!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I do have to agree with you on the lack of LAN play, but perhaps that will change in the future.
Clearly they're trying to prevent piracy, but maybe a future update, once sales have slowed, will include LAN play.
But I thought that everything being open source was important to you. It seems like you have no problem exhorting the values that is open source when a company you dislike is in the spotlight, but the instant a company you like is brought into the spotlight, well, maybe a future update will let you be open with how you play your game. Stick to your values! Boycott StarCraft 2!
The drive-less Xbox 360 Arcade unit is cheap ($199) but to realistically use it, you'll need to buy a "Memory Unit"...
Not strictly accurate; I purchased an Arcade a few months back to replace my dead Elite, and they now come with a built-in 512MB. They've had at least 256MB internal memory since late 2008.
Also note that there are third-parties with "authorized" storage solutions, this isn't a carte blanche ban on all third-party storage. Still, it seems like a random anti-feature.
When did the future switch from being a promise to a threat? -C. Palahniuk
As far as I understand it, LAN play will be possible. It will just require that the LAN let everyone connect to Blizzard's battle.net servers. Gameplay after that should stay local.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
While I think Blizzard's decisions are deplorable there's a world of difference for several reasons. In particular:
a)Blizzard's actions mainly affect their own products. Them limiting their games in this way does not in any way prevent competition from other video game vendors. It won't interfere with you running a game made by Westwood, an open source game, or a game you wrote yourself on the same machine.
b)In Blizzard's case they actually have some valid reasons to do it. While many of us ( myself included ) dislike the way blizzard go about this, trying to make it difficult for people to play their game without paying for it is not quite in the same league as limiting the functionality of hardware in order to make you buy more stuff. In one case they are limiting the functionality of a product to enforce their terms for you using THAT product. In the other case Microsoft is limiting the functionality in order to stop you using OTHER products. The two are not the same.
To make a mandatory car analogy. What Blizzard is doing is akin to programing a car you rent from them to only run after checking that the monthly payment has been made. What Microsoft is doing is more akin to putting gates on the road that only open for vehicles Microsoft approve of.
We're still evil!
There is no Open Source gaming system on a PC. Considering you can not get any decent games for linux.
Monopoly Capitali$m at its finest.
you call a PC an open source gaming system. last I checked you still had to run windows to get the majority of games released and MS is not open source. oh and have fun playing starcraft 2 with no lan support.
It was my understanding that "unauthorized" meant "bootleg" in this case. There do exist authorized peripherals, which bear the logos found at this link, and while it's still a bit of a cash-grab on Microsoft's part (licensing), it likely has more to do with anti-cheating than anything - In other words, removing the ability to crack open an SD card on your PC and modify your save files, so as to prevent things like the CoD4 UFO hack and other exploits.
But don't let me stop the mindless bashing - It's MS, after all, and they deserve it no matter what, right?
Right?
Feh.
Screw the rules, I have green hair!
I'm no genius but couldn't someone create a flashing program (similar to current DVD ROM flashers) that reads the original drive, pulls the security sector then spoofs/writes that sector onto the new drive?
I have already got one running Lincade. Between the cabinet, the Wells/Gardener 30" monitor and HAPP controls, I have got some serious $DOUGH$ invested in the hardware. No console runs these games like this, and even the coin slot works!
"Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
... Craiglist is flooded with second-hand XBox 360's.
Stick with a PC. They're versatile: Upgradeable AND modifiable!
Everyone seems to be missing a fundamental issue: okay, let's say I am fine with not being able to connect to XBox Live (lame), but where exactly do I end up when I purchase a new game that demands I upgrade in order to play at all, even offline (like CoD:World at War did)? Now I get to choose whether to lose money on the non-returnable, opened game or lose access to all my saved data and render my memory hardware useless? Swell.
I actually have one of these Datel devices and an XBox Arcade. My opinion was that this was a better value than purchasing an overpriced/undercapacity HDD. Micro SDHC is cheap, and I could swap them out if I needed more capacity.
This kind of thing is completely unreasonable: they are intentionally locking out this device for no other reason than to be anti-competitive. At some point, these kind of antics from a manufacturer eclipse any amount of fun that was being had with the item or service. I have reached this point.
This marks the beginning of the end of my use of the XBox platform for gaming. My current games will work, offline. I can still stream video to it (in a limited fashion) with Vuze, so I will keep using the XBox for that until I get a "real" device for that purpose. It goes without saying that I won't be spending any more money on games, hardware, accessories, or XBox Live--the XBox is going to be gathering dust sooner rather than later.
The adage is to vote with your money, right? Fine: never again, Microsoft.
Never again.
Coin operated apartment doors, showers, refrigerators, coffee makers, vacuum cleaners, everything you use on a regular basis. And the best part - They all bitch at you on their own when you fall behind on rent or whatever other periodic fee they have.
The Arcade bundle has always included a memory unit, yet they act as if it's yet another option for MS to milk you on. I've later upgrade to a hard drive, but I played my 360 for a long time with just the memory card that came with my Arcade bundle it it worked fine for save-games and the like.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
give them a right old anal fisting, yet again. What a surprise.
See United States v IBM, 1936, USSC ruled that it was a violation of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act for IBM to require the use of IBM brand punch cards in their machines. Exact same thing here.
If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"
So you go for the game with no LAN play that you have to connect to proprietary Blizzard Servers?
I don't get why people single out THIS as a flaw like it won't be broken within a week of the game being released, and after that it's effectively as if it had ALWAYS had it!
Ayjay on Fedang
Apple are being told off by the USB standards group too: programs should look at the product ID NOT the manufacturer ID for USB compatibility.
It doesn't matter WHO makes the USB hard drive, if it says its USB Mass Storage, then it's USB Mass Storage and your driver should work with it even if it's from a competitor in this case.
Otherwise you'd need a driver for your Samsung USB HDD, a driver for your Hitachi USB HDD, a driver for your Sony Compact Flash, a driver for your xD Fujitsu card...
So it's outside the agreement.
The parent is correct. Local play will be entirely possible and all the people whining about ping times and upstream bandwidth simply don't understand how it will work.
At 52% failure rate within a year of purchase, the Xbox360 is practically garbage (not to mention that it likes to cut nice deep grooves in your media, if you look at ti wring). So if you bought one, it's only fair that you get a bum deal, too.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
there is celery next to your xbox? what?
Microsoft have a perfectly valid reason. They like money.
Microsoft can blow me.
A fucking 40 year old pong game is better