Slashdot Mirror
The US Economy Needs More "Cool" Nerds
Hugh Pickens writes "Steve Lohr writes in the NY Times that the country needs more 'cool' nerds — professionals with hybrid careers that combine computing with other fields like medicine, art, or journalism. Not enough young people are embracing computing, often because they are leery of being branded nerds. Educators and technologists say that two things need to change: the image of computing work, and computer science education in high schools. Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs, says Janice C. Cuny, a program director at the National Science Foundation adding that the Advanced Placement curriculum concentrates too narrowly on programming. 'We're not showing and teaching kids the magic of computing,' Cuny says. The NSF is working to change this by developing a new introductory high school course in computer science and seeking to overhaul Advanced Placement courses as well. The NSF hopes to train 10,000 high school teachers in the modernized courses by 2015. Knowledge of computer science and computer programming is becoming a necessary skill for many professions, not only science and technology but also increasingly for marketing, advertising, journalism and the creative arts. 'We need to gain an understanding in the population that education in computer science is both extraordinarily important and extraordinarily interesting,' says Alfred Spector, vice president for research and special initiatives at Google. 'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.'"
Rather, the burden of change should be placed on the populace (parents especially) and media.
I'm going to make some statements with absolutely no sort of proof, weight or even statistics behind them. Statements which need no proof because if you've gone through the American educational system, you know that what I am saying is the truth.
Football (really sports in general) is more important to teenagers and parents than computer science.
Computer science is far more practical/pragmatic (and really productive for society as a whole) and monetarily rewarding later in life than football.
This isn't pressure from the kids. Kids don't develop these hierarchies of what's more important than other things on their own. They get this from their peers who in turn get it from their parents, teachers and--most importantly--the media. Football is the entertainment industry. There are a small percentage of high school football players that go on to hold all the wealth. All the wealth is controlled or pushed through a single league--the NFL. Kids don't realize that their chances of playing in the NFL are equivalent to winning the lottery. And they pass up much more applicable things like math in order to be better at sports. This is what's wrong with the picture. Don't blame nerds for not being iconic enough or cool enough or social enough.
This has slowly turned as shows and parents have realized that the brilliant nerds they graduated with--the ones that spoke Klingon--actually went on to do really cool things with technology. Not only are they really cool but the whole world is trying to throw cash at them in exchange for their services. Compare that to captain of the football team.
I don't want you to write off sports entirely, a healthy body is necessary to live a long life and moderate exercise is actually good for your intelligence. What I'm asking people to do is when they sit down as a father and spend three hours cheering for their team, they should realize that in order to instill a more pragmatic value in their child (who watches and mimics their every move) they should turn around and spend an equally amount of emphasis on how important math, academics, computer science, etc is to their child.
That's not happening. Our economy is suffering from irresponsible parents breeding a generation of gamblers. And by and large they lose--there's just not enough money in entertainment to go around to every high school football player. There is, however, more than enough money in technology to go around to every high school hobbyist that got out in the real world and applied their knowledge.
I'm not a parent but I'd like to ask all the Slashdotters that are parents that have pushed their children in sports and physical abilities to devote more time to that than reading or studying: why do we do this to our kids? And secondly, do you realize you're creating an ecosystem for other people's kids when your kids reinforce the idea that sports are more important than knowledge and they are the path to success?
My work here is dung.
All I'm going to say about this is that it doesn't really help when the media and others continues to fuel the fire. Why am I labeled an "uber geek" and people who are into their cars, guns, whatever else aren't?
The U.S. needs to kill off the idiotic youth that will soon be our main work-force. Out of curiosity, I asked a 20 year old full time student who the former vice president of America was for the past 8 years was.. I get a "?????".
When asked which celebrity recently just passed away.. it was an immediate response full of confidence and knowing. There ya go.
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/21/nerd-and-geek-should-be-banned-professor-says/
"David Anderegg, a professor of psychology at Bennington College, says that merely mentioning terms like nerd or geek serves to perpetuate the stereotype. The words are damaging, much like racial epithets, he says, and should be avoided."
Yeah. The reality is that you will be stuck in a small cube writing code instead.
Love sees no species.
Look at what this madness did to TechTV. Nerds are nerds. You're never going to make Z80 assembly seems sexy or cool.
I doubt anyone on G4 can heat a burrito properly, let alone program in any computer language.
Not enough young people are embracing computing, often because they are leery of being branded nerds.
I think a lot of young people just don't find it interesting. I think a lot of older people feel the same way. People tend to do what they're passionate about, and passionate people tend to think less of the opinions of others and more about what they want to do. Do we really need to press this field on more people?
'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.'"
Instead, you'll be stuck in a cube farm doing TPS reports. Which is much, much worse than a basement. I've done the cube farm thing and they'd have to drag me back.
Not a typewriter
It just seems like people focus on the nerd doing the job instead of the damn cool results a lot of nerds produce, though maybe its just my perception...
they'll be sitting in mom's basement e-mailing resumes, employers don't want fresh-out-of-school grads. maybe we need a national apprenticeship program to give young people experience in the tech fields.
...There already are not enough tech jobs for us. Sure, we had a hard time in high school (at least I know I did), but we get our day eventually. Particularly for me, my day was last week when I saw one of the biggest, douchiest jocks from my high school working at the local car wash.
To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
It's quite simple. Give the technology classes to people who actually understand the subject and can teach interesting aspects of computer science.
All of my computer courses were either run by secretaries "Learn excel!" or mathematicians "Learn esoteric matlab graphing!"
Teach kids something more entertaining for a broader swath of students like visual effects. Write a renderer in a compositing application. or Teach kids Torque Game Builder. Something simple but creates a product the students actually are interested in.
Quite right! It's a cubicle.
What about Turing? Tesla? Archimedes? Einstein? Hawking? Those guys from 'Big Bang Theory'?
How much cooler do you want?
Open source projects, such as Fedora, provide a way for teenagers to make contributions (and not just with code) that help millions of people. That aren't a lot of other ways to do that. For example Ian Weller is a very significant participant (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller) in the Fedora Project and is still in high school.
As long as we keep spending money on kids who are good at sports, instead of those with discernable intellects, the country is fucked. We need to make it *uncool* for jocks to exist, then we have a hope of turning this shit round.
My mom says I'm cool.
We have enough raw labor resources in this country to meet any technology demand. Don't blame the culture or this lame-ass idea that people are afraid of being labelled nerds. If I made six figures, they could call me the pink tutu goddess of networking and I wouldn't mind.
The problem is that businesses don't want to pay highly-trained and specialized workers more. They've tried outsourcing, right-sizing, downsizing, globalization, and every other way possible to screw people out of wages. And curiously enough, we keep coming back to the same problem -- no matter how big you make the labor pool, the required training and experience required to do these jobs demands a certain minimum income. Keynesian economics, I'm looking at you -- your adherents continue to believe that if they keep expanding the labor pool they'll reach a price point they want. Well, good luck with that...
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
It wasn't *that* long ago that executives didn't type their own memos and letters. Ask one to use a typewriter or a word processor and they would have laughed or wouldn't know how to do it.
More and more computing skills are becoming basic skills. Maybe only the dinosaurs continue to use word processors and spreadsheets, but people still want wikis and PDFs. And by dinosaurs I don't mean the old schoolers, but those who still cling to the idea that in this age, the best way to disseminate knowledge is to print it on an 8" x 11", un-editable, fixed document stuck in a binder...
And that's part of the problem. In my day to day work I don't need a word processor or a spreadsheet except when a manager specifically asks for documentation in that format. So I gather my data and run it through a utility to convert it to a pretty Excel sheet, or convert it to a nicely formatted PDF, or make it into a web page. We're teaching kids to use tools that don't work all that well for the media-rich environment we have today.
Teach them to write a Facebook app or use a content creation tool.. That will be more useful than learning how to print mail merged letters.
How about this, stop calling people who use computers to get things done as "nerds" ("geeks", "techies", etc).
Look at any magazine or television commercial, you think all that crap was hand carved out of stone and painted with the tears of virgins? I guarantee a computer was used at some point or another in the creative development behind it. Hell, music has been constantly fusing with new technology for ages, was Les Paul a "nerd"?
Technology, computers especially, penetrated society long ago, the only thing that creates this "us & them" rift is constant stereotype re-enforcement through the media.
Now, if you'll excuse me I have to go re-alphabetize my D&D collection while being bad at sports, good day to you sir!
crazy dynamite monkey
How much cooler do you want?
I don't think any of the real nerds you mention wore ironic tee shirts or talked about how social media will transform how the world finds the best sushi restaurant in San Francisco.
Only due to era.
Clearly, Bill Gates, and some of the other titans of the industry need to bite the bullet and have some very public, scandalous affairs so that the media will start talking about how immoral and terrible people software designers are. Then suddenly sportsmen will become model citizens and no one will want to go into sports anymore.
Help I'm in my basement writing code.
'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.'"
No. You'll be sitting in a cube, reading and posting to slashdot.
Happy to see somewhere out there someone believes in the cool nerds. (i'm also the gay one, and at work that means i'm triple times fabulous ;). I no longer work in IT but i work in regulatory compliance. Where do i find still my undergrad degree in computing sciences useful? EVERYWHERE and EVERY DAY!!! I believe the biggest mistake of this century is for businesses to isolate their "tech" employees to an IT department. This structure ensures that all computing knowledge is isolated from the rest of the business that could use it to increase productivity! I've written countless scripts, reports and other programs to perform simple otherwise labrous tasks and free business workers to focus on important things. People think i'm some sort of miracle worker. The reality is that i'm simply an anomaly at the firm - a person with a computing background who works in the business side. There needs to be more of us - many more!! When i'm CEO - there will be people with computer science backgrounds positioned everywhere in the company. They are the key to connecting the business with technology needs and making business far more efficient. An "IT" department, no matter how good, isn't as good as mixing knowledge of technology in the business side directly.
There aren't enough nerds? You mean that you don't want to pay what nerds charge for what they do.
There's plenty of us out there... Enough that many are unemployed. Businesses just want more nerds on the field so they can pick better ones and pay them less.
By that same token, I declare that there are too many: CEOs, mechanics, doctors, etc etc.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
My kids are great at sports--AND they love to read. My oldest two have skipped a grade in school, they score off the charts on any standardized test. They are well liked and social leaders in their age group. They have their own computers (running two different flavors of Linux), but they'd just as soon go jump on a trampoline, go for a bike ride, go hiking, or kick butt in soccer. You want the real secret? Be a parent, enjoy these little people...we all know you enjoyed creating them ;-) Anyway, treat them with dignity and respect, spend time with them, and wow, you'd be amazed how successful they can be at anything!
Every time I go out somewhere, I can overhear idiots bashfully proclaiming to be "total nerds" to impress girls, despite not being able to string a sentence together or use a word with more than two syllables.
Don't get me wrong, the whole nerd chic thing has been great to me, but guys who used to beat up guys like me calling themselves nerds just to get laid is a bit annoying.
Name...That...Autocomplete!
I look forward to one of you jackasses showing up at my front door.
As someone who has tried to do exactly what this article suggests, I feel obligated to chime in and say that I think it's absolutely correct. People with the ability to apply technology skills to business or societal needs of a particular discipline are extremely valuable.
For example, in my case, I combined healthcare knowledge, social science and information systems and now work in a very interesting and challenging segment of the healthcare industry.
I would point out that it is very challenging and can be difficult to focus one's study when you are trying to learn something technically oriented, like writing software in C++, and combine it with something else very different, like building construction, for example. Some things simply take skill and raw ability, or a long time to learn. There might be a lot of similarities in building software and building a building, but being an expert in both takes a while. Still though, a person who can apply knowledge of software development (or even build or implement software) that makes the process of building a building more efficient is a good person to have around.
Perhaps, in other words, all this is saying is, having people who are cross-disciplinary and can apply their skills in more than one scenario is a good thing. That's not much of a stretch of the imagination, in my opinion. More skills are better than less, and people who can mix and match are helpful.
We must, however, also be leery of the "jack of all trades, master of none" issue.
Oh yeah, get a good education for what?
No jobs for US Citizens.
If you can get one, get ready for minimum wages and 80 hours a week with unpaid overtime.
No thanks!!!
At the moment in a purely IT role (some management, some hands on, etc), I make about the same amount as an average doctor and work less hours. Granted I'm sure that some specialists make a lot more, but the simple fact is that there isn't a motivation to move.
To be honest, I have considered pursuing a medical degree -- not for the money, but for my own interest. Looking at the amount of time I have to invest, looking at the amounts of loans I have to take out, looking at the long term gain -- it's not worth it.
The way government controls behavior is through taxation. If they want people to drive hybrids, they can tax gasoline. That's why europeans drive smaller cars -- because gas costs more due to taxes. If they want people to stop drinking, or stop eating McDonalds or whatever -- they can tax accordingly. But unfortunately in the last few years of our economy, it's become abundantly clear that people with a finance degree and the ability to reap rewards on a short term (bonuses) while screwing other people out of the long term is what is valued in our country. Do we value educators? Do we value doctors? Not really -- many articles surrounding healthcare debate lie in the idea that "doctors make too much", when given the lifestyle and hours they work, they should honestly be paid more.
Making a person like me jump from IT into healthcare or be crosstrained in order to better the country as a whole to me, is a great idea. I just can't burden the expense -- again. I have gone through the system that is there, and wound up many thousands in debt due to school loans. If we want more 'cool nerds', then somebody has to start putting the emphasis back on aspiring to be a doctor, a teacher, a scientist (the kind with beakers, not computers), etc. Not having kids aspire to be the next Michael Jordan or Jay Z.
Unfortunately it's a myth that is perpetuated and we keep buying into it. Sadly, other countries see our folly and already accelerate ahead of us (the US) in many, many areas. We are the best at a lot of things, but for how long? Hopefully our behaviors can change so that a person like myself that actually wants to contribute in a meaningful way, can.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
The problem is not as much a lack of skills (set) amongst the techies, but a lack of seemingly any skills whatsoever amongst the "leadership".
The nerds and geeks are not the weak links in the chain.
Yeah , the High School teacher. The ultimate combination of an NFL all-star and American Idol contestant! They can barely teach the subject that went to school to teach others. The problem is that there are too many barriers for "outsiders" to have an after school club or part-time teaching. I am certain that User Groups, semi-retired technologists and others can really make a difference. Besides, the kids who do know, don't want to be found out. Not because they are nerds, but because they 1337 Haxxors!
"Ones and zeros were everywhere. I even think I saw a two!" - Bender
Various advocacy groups have been proclaiming severe shortages of scientists and engineers since Sputnik fifty years ago. The loudest voices are computer companies who ask to hire more people from abroad under restrictive H-1B visas. And the National Science Foundation which has a vested interest in ever-increasing numbers of sci-tech students.
On the opposing side are professional societies which worry about unemployment among older sci-tech workers. People are suspicious employers are interested in cheaper and more controllable labor using the visa program.
Personally I think there is not much of an imbalance between supply and demand. We have cycles where exciting new technologies like PCs, computers and smart phones attract new students. Not to mention get-rich-quick booms like dot.com. Then these are followed for business corrections that flush out the economic mercenaries and leave the dedicated.
I do think there is a shortage of general computer and scientific literacy in broad society. And this needs to be improved.
The problem is that businesses don't want to pay highly-trained and specialized workers more.
In my experience, even during this recent recession, payscales for software
http://www.sivereknet.com
http://www.mcplusplus.com/
That oughtta get some more recruits into the war on ignorance! One day I hope to be as cool as Monzy...
..welcome our new nerdy overlords. Like it or not, either the nerds or the machines will rule the world in the nearest future.
Along those same lines, I'd agree with the summary (RTFA? Me? Never!) that early computer education needs to be divorced from only the dull and pointless (MS Office training) and the specialized (programming) to include a wider range of activities that use computers as a tool. Computers have advanced in usability to the point where interacting with "the computer" is overshadowed by interacting with software, websites, and people. Frame computer literacy not in terms of "computer classes", but in terms of art, writing, design, engineering, yes-- programming, and all the creative endeavors that use the computer as a tool.
Information wants to be free.
Entertainment wants to be paid.
You just want to be cheap.
Not enough young people are embracing computing, often because they are leery of being branded nerds.
Really? REALLY? You think so? It couldn't be due to the fact that not everyone likes computers, that some would much rather be hanging out at a mall shopping, or seeing the latest movies, or running around in a field doing some sport or another. If you have a computer in the house, and you let your child browse the internet (with some filtering) - they can learn to surf the web by the time they enter grade school. (I know I did). This is a headstart to computer sciences. At first they'll learn about programs. They'll want one program or another after reading about it. But you can't help them install it, then they'll have to learn how to install a program. Or alternatively, they'll have to login to some webservice. They'll learn about usernames and passwords! Then once they've got that under their belt they will be ahead of the curve in computers.
The Guys and Gals that were labelled as Geeks were into computers long before they were labelled as geeks. I don't know of a single person who said "Yeah, I really like computers, but I stopped using it for fear of being a social outcast". You stayed up late to set a high score. You rushed home from school to pickup where you left off. Eventually the games themselves got boring and repetitive, but for whatever reason you LOVED your computer. So you start fiddling around with command prompt. Or you surf the web. One day you get curious as to what exactly DirectX does, so you look it up. If you spent too long on it however, Mom and Dad would tell you to shut it off.
And that is a perfect Segway into my next point - is that it's discouraged behavior. I was learning Visual basic when my Mom told me to stop playing my games and go do something productive. I wish I could have videotaped that part of my life and shown it to her now, shown her how much more productive learning that stuff on my own free will was than Re-Re-studying for a test I knew I could ace. I'm not a parent so I have no weight to these arguements whatsoever, but I think Parenting should be a little more flexible in that regard. Yeah, punish your kids when they do bad, but at least -LET- them make those mistakes. Show them multiple facets of the world, from sports, to arts, to science, and everything in between. Once they have the knowledge, they can choose what they find most entertaining, and persue that. And whatever they learn while persuing their passion will ultimately be a million times more valuable to them than anything you could teach them.
I'm not a father, though one day I might be. The one thing I look forward to is the day when my Child knows more about a subject than I do. Obviously, those lessons are something I can't teach them.
Medical doctors writing the code to run highly sophisticated and/or potentially dangerous medical equipment....
Pilots writing fly-by-wire or ATC systems....
MBAs writing ERP systems...
Etc.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
A lot of young people don't find reading, writing, or basic mathematics -- or general science, civics or economics -- interesting either, and we press those on people as educational requirements. Given that computing is a fairly fundamental tool of modern society in every field, a certain baseline understanding of the basic principles involved may be quite reasonable to expect as a core educational requirement.
This is it exactly. I'm really tired of all this whining about how we need to push more young people into computer-related or engineering fields. If they're not interested in those things, they're not interested. If that means our economy goes down the crapper in 30 years because everyone would rather play sports or be real estate agents or scam artists, then so be it. Let nations where people believe in hard work and doing technical things be the ones to get ahead, instead of trying to push people into things they don't want to do and consequently aren't going to be very good at.
In the UK, I was told not to bother with computing related courses, instead doing Maths and Further Maths. ICT is a course on being a receptionist. Nothing more.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
I think parents have the ability to affect what their kids are passionate about.
Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
... just like Mathematics.
It means nothing by itself, except as a means to an end of solving practical problems.
That said, it makes all the sense in the world for most Computer Scientists to learn other domains of knowledge to apply to.
The more disciplines you are familiar with, the more adept you will be at applying your programming skills to solving real-world problems.
Eventually, on its own, computing may move out of the "nerd" area of interest and into the mainstream. It's already starting with smartphones, music players, and ever more intricate gaming consoles. Once that happens, computing will be cool, and some other area of interest will become nerdy. Or, computing will stay "nerdy", and maybe something else will become cool, like tabletop gaming or massive LEGO collections or comic books. (Sorry guys ...)
Society will always need to label some as nerds, for whatever demented sociological reason there is for it.
Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs
Singular, not plural.
Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use Microsoft Word processing and Microsoft Excel spreadsheet program.
I went to a crappy private catholic high school 16 years ago but, luckily, our first course was in GW Basic. My girl just took a Computer Science class at the local community college and all she went through was Word, Excel, Access. It made me kind of mad, cause all she really learned was where to find all the menus in the new version of office.
*DrugCheese rants*
The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality. How true! The vast majority are instead stuck in a cubicle, writing code. Basements are passé!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
As we let more of our daily tasks (and even specialized tasks) be done with computers, people end up learning bits and pieces of software programs, sometimes becoming "experts" with whatever program is used.
As much as people would like to view all computer-related work as just using an appliance, we're jut not there and I don't believe we'll ever be there.
The biotech profession - particularly drug discovery - comes to mind, but there are many other professions that depend on sophisticated programs.
Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs,
Seriously? I mean, they teach that stuff in computer science classes?
At least the US economy has some cool nerds to hire. The UK requires students to specialise at 14-16, and the result is whole classes of computing students who have not a clue about how their work will be applied, particularly in science and engineering.
Writing code is a craft, much like carpentry or gemstone cutting.
Except I would say it is quite a bit more inaccessible, for a lot of reasons:
- The only way to get better is to practice, with almost no limit to how good you get.
- The best are worth many times the weight of the less-than-best, and you typically cannot make a living knowing only one language.
- Results aren't immediately visible or appreciated by others.
So the best parallel is more like an expert mining technician, where you only find out the value of their work when the mine collapses (or not).
You could be able to produce university graduates who knew quite a bit about the history of wine, and would be able to create "Hello World" statements in five different languages, but what would they then be used for? Writing code? No point. Team leads? Maybe. Except that "Team Leader Of IT Workers" does not have the same educational tangibility for people to devote their lives to achieving excellence in it from the point of school onwards. Hence, you get IT workers, and non-IT workers.
Isn't this problem a bit work related?
Where I live IT is seen as a path to unemployment because of outsourcing. Especially the low end entry jobs that you start with has been outsourced so you can't get the necessary experience to get a work. This is of course fatal for a field that doesn't really have so much attraction - an career either need to have a good chance for work in it or it have to be cool. Appearing to be neither isn't helping IT along.
Cool nerds... Oh, do you mean people who use facebook, who 'tweet', who blog from Starbucks with their Macbooks, and who listen to Lady Gaga on their iPods?
We live in a "rock star" economy: Few make it big and the rest are hardly differentiated at all. There are many who are exactly as good as the few who land highly paid positions, and the only reason why they aren't up there comes down to chance. This is the reason why parents tell their kids not to become musicians or any other kind of artist and the rest of the economy is becoming more and more like the arts. We tell people to aspire to be the best and totally let down almost all of them for absolutely insignificant reasons. How can we expect young people to work their asses off when it will only make a difference for so few of them that playing the lottery looks like a better proposition? It's no wonder at all that young people look for the easy jobs with average pay. To ask for "cool nerds with hybrid careers" is a slap in the face of those who already excel and are not getting rewarded.
If you pay lawyers and marketers and crap all over computer scientists and engineers in terms of pay, status, holiday work hours, then why do you expect anyone with a lick of brains to go into these fields?
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
The person that the OP is describing is either:
1. A super genious (rare)
2. A senior person that just finished all their training
3. A super rich dude that's been in school (middle-aged)
Unless you're rich and/or don't have to worry about paying your bills, you can't really afford to put in the time and money to be trained in multiple disciplines. And if you're rich, why would you bother unless you're really curious.
Did pretty well in undergrad and picked up a Computer Engineering degree.
Most of my classmates went on to work for the DoD. I took the Kurt Vonnegut approach and said, 'no thanks'. I was also pushed away from being a nerd because of the people.... yeah, I've got my good friends but mostly everyone I graduated with were, well, kinda sad. So many of them focused on siloing their skill set that they didn't bother peaking their heads out of the basement computer lab to get out a live a WELL-ROUNDED life.
Applied for an MFA program that specialized in 3D (Maya specifically)... did allright, had one heck of a time learning how to paint but was fortunate to have had a lot of this kind of education when I was young (teenager) and not really all the way into computers.
Now, I boot up WoW every 6 months to look at the new artwork and scene design (then turn it off so I can go out and meet hot girls). I bought BioShock for my Mac (finally!) and played it for a while but seem to have simply lost the taste for gaming. I know I know... but man, I do SO MUCH ELSE.
Now, I work as a systems architect full-time and teach drawing and 3D animation 2 nights a week. I make presentations that communicate so much and do so in a very captivating way.... not to mention, I'm in with both the NERD scene and the ART scene. Anyone want to guess which is more fun?
I heard it explained in such a way once that practical degrees (engineering, architecture, comp sci, medicine, etc) are a great core skill-set to have but by branching out and getting something less practical, it expands your mind to the nth degree and makes those core skill-sets that much more effective.
This is by far the best decision I have made in my life.
is to stop calling IT professionals Nerds and Geeks. Frankly I'm sick and tired of it. I'm not a nerd or a geek, I'm a professional, just like your Doctor or Dentist. You wouldn't refer to them cavalierly when they had your life in their hands, so why would you do the same to me when I may have your career or business or financial health in my hands? Furthermore, we should be treating this like the "N" word and stop using it amongst ourselves.
Many of us Nerds are already Cool. I majored in Computer Science but minored in Physics and Engineering, then in Information Systems and minored in Supervision Management, and then I went for Business Management and minored in e-Commerce and Computer Science. I've taken a wide variety of college courses from many colleges. Mostly I can do computers and business as I ran two small businesses in the past. After the Dotcom bubble burst many of us programmers learned a second or third career skill in order to survive.
You'll have an easier time getting current comp sci graduates to go back for business, art, law, science, etc than you can get non-comp sci majors to go back for comp sci. Computer science and programming is not for everyone. We've already had the market flooded with comp sci graduates that barely know what they are doing after the Dotcom busts as the high programmer salaries got many copycats but very few that are talented enough to be competent.
One of my friends Michael, he had a physics degree but he learned programming on the side, and worked at Apple debugging Macintosh System 7.5.X and after Apple laid him off he has worked for many different companies and even started up his own business. He is one of those 'Cool' Nerds but he struggles to find work due to his schizoaffective disorder that he suffers from.
Now me I have schizoaffective disorder and I did great at art and music when I was in school, but I had to hide those talents as employers didn't like me having them and I had to take them off my resume to get hired. I owned an Amiga 1000 and Deluxe Paint II and I used to paint stuff and use Music Construction Set to design music. But I don't have the software these days to do that anymore, although I could find FOSS music and art programs if I looked hard enough. But I used to design web sites and created my own art as well. Many who create web sites and program them already have art and music skills but we hide them.
I think I can better serve the FOSS community via writing, doing business and legal software and documents and templates and trying to meet the needs of small businesses like I used to run. But I can do art and music with the right software if I wanted to and become a 'Cool' Nerd.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Trying to hide this under an AC posting so as not to distract from the other comments. I have a moderation question...I dislike unnecessary negative moderation - if I want to counter it with a mod of my own, should I mark it as underrated or overrated. I know I could mark it as interesting, informative, etc., but sometimes it isn't one of those but it also isn't a troll.
Don't get me wrong - I think they are right. It's about time CS enters the mainstream; it's good for the economy; it's important that this happens. But, this is another nail in the coffin of the "geek era." We will go back to being nerds and the extraordinary period when we were relevant and even sorta cool will be over. The question I'm interested in is, what's the next thing we will make our own? I hope it happens a little bit like Makers, by Cory Doctorow...
'We need to gain an understanding in the population that education in computer science is both extraordinarily important and extraordinarily interesting,' says Alfred Spector, vice president for research and special initiatives at Google. 'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.'"
What bullshit comes from the mouths of corporate executives and the media wonks that love to parrot them. The type of job or career Mr Spector talks about is about as rare an item as a top NFL position these days. No matter what is taught in high school and college any more, the type of computer job he talks about is only for the select few. The rest of the standard business coding is slowing being stripped from the United States and send overseas in the form of "consulting" and Enterprise Development solutions. Take a look at many of the top US companies and you will see they are managing their resources, which translates to sending the work overseas for competitive pricing. Good for the short term investment? Of course, but not really for any long term positive development gains.
I really don't give a damn about the term "nerd" though come on, that is really getting old. We all live in a technological society today where the lines are blurrier then they were in the 80s. having a diverse educational background is beneficial towards living a full life. When I went to high school and college we were required to take liberal arts classes along with CompSci to keep in touch with the world around us. Did it make me a better employee? I like to believe so. However, companies back then valued more diversity because they still recognized the human behind the skill. More and more what i see today is that Programmers, mostly business Programmers are being pushed aside for the commidty programmer. "can you program in ? Great, your hired" Doesn't matter that the person may not give a shit about the company or can do anthing but write code in language X. Can they think? Yikes, can't have that any more, because it threatens the managers position. Why care about anything when your position may be "downsized" or dropped with no regard to your status, position, or contribution to said company.
Instead of focusing on creating "cool nerds", how about we focus on getting companies to retain employees, valuing their whole lives, not just the automoton skillsets that drive the assembly line mentality that is development these days. And to comment on the first poster, one huge difference between the NFL player and a computer programmer is that you cannot offshore the NFL position while the programmer position gets "traded" to a offshore team. The day they can do that in football is the day salaries will drop in the NFL. Cool Nerds? Meh!
Life is a great ride, the vehicle doesn't matter
...until wages on most jobs dropped as low as what they pay a manager at McDonalds. I quit doing it when industry figured out they could pay 1/10 the wages to entry-level off-shore programmers they used to pay on-shore programmers. The US has shot itself in the tech feet and there's nothing that can be done as long as nothing more is considered besides cost.
A lot of young people don't find reading, writing, or basic mathematics -- or general science, civics or economics -- interesting either, and we press those on people as educational requirements.
On the other hand, they don't like foreign languages, shop class, literature classes, or home ec class, so we dumped them.
Whats the difference between computing class, and German class? I don't think "computing classes" are, by and large, needed.
The biggest problem is the demand that kids learn something old, so that decades later they'll have amazing 'puter skills. Nothing could possibly be more useless than the time I spent in 1st grade learning "bank street writer" on a C64. Or my amazing "Winders fer Workgroups" sysadmin skills.
There is a willful blind spot preventing people from understanding how the hiring managers of future decades will view their amazing firefox 3.5 talents. If MS Office completely redesigns their UI every two years, then "training" usually solely based on memorizing the UI is useless within two years.
At least if you learn German, you can visit oktoberfest 40 years from now, in theory.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Many many many years ago (sob) I was a school kid being interviewed by the local radio station at the after-school computer club (back in the day the teacher and students had to volunteer to study computing in our own time): "Will you be a computer professional when you grown up son?" asked the radio presented; "No" said I "I only see computers as a tool to help me to do my actual job". :)
Years later I entered a clinical profession, and honestly my knowledge of computing did not help one bit; because non-computing jobs do not offer the scope for one to just jump up and say "I'm gonna use a sort algorithm / Python / Web Services for that" - instead the employer will get a computing professional on the case.
(Even later I entered a computing profession and now my knowledge and innate interest means that I earn lots of money and don't have to do any more stinking pharmacy
bread and circus...
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
Cool article. I just wrapped up work on my undergrad, music education. I spent the entire fall semester student teaching in my city's public fine arts magnet school (I teach band). These kids all had to audition into the school in specific art areas (band, strings, art, drama, creative writing, dance, ballet, etc) and their minds are all running at about a mile a minute. Even though these kids were all there for the arts, I knew that at least a few of them would end up as programmers for Google, Sun, or whatever in the future. With that in mind, I created a hybrid music/computer programming project with the free, open source program LilyPond (http://lilypond.org). With the teachers' assistance, we had 5th graders composing music by hand onto manuscript, which they then transferred into LilyPond on the computer. They were successful in producing beautiful manuscript in a computer-programming-oriented way. I had a fun, though nerdy semester.
What the US economy needs is not this bullshit cool branding. Science-oriented networks have been dumbing down "science" for years now for the sake of making everything cool and exciting. So much so that TLC (The Learning Channel) no longer has anything even remotely related to learning.
What America needs is for kids to learn the value of hard work and an education. They need to understand that your life isn't going to be full of excitement and thrills. They need to understand that sometimes you just have to persevere in order to find success down the road.
Too many people today want everything handed on silver platter. They get indignant when asked to go above and beyond their normal responsibilities and expect everyone to pander to their needs. And when they don't get what they want they go and blame the system for failing them. They're the ones who've failed.
This is one of the reasons why Asia is thriving while the West, is languishing. In Asia they still appreciate the value of hard work and it is instilled in them from a young age. It isn't about doing what's exciting, it's about doing what will make you successful. Although things are changing there too. A lot of this feel-good crap is starting to seep into Asian cultures.
It's not to do what you enjoy, and it's nice to do something exciting. But the problem is that too many people are creating unrealistic expectations and they're portraying most professions as undesirable.
Too bad the pointy haired bosses aren't on the same page. If there were actually job postings out there for people with hybrid careers then maybe people would try to develop skill sets in two separate fields. I have degrees in Molecular Biology and Bioinformatics and work experience in both Biology (with publications) and IT but I have never been able to get a job which values both skill sets at the same time. Actual Bioinformatics jobs are very rare. Computer skills, including advanced database design and programming, are very useful in a bio lab but that doesn't mean you'll get paid anything more for having those skills. I don't know whether this is a bone headed insistence that people need to specialize (I hear that from management frequently) or just a failure to recognize that there are people out there with mixed skills you could hire. It's probably some of each. A lot of people see someone like me as "Jack of all Trades, Master of None."
The world needs more "Geek Chic", IT Crowd style.
We need less obnoxious stereotyping from people who don't know what the hell they're talking about.
What's needed, as always, are people who can can accurately consolidate complex technical details into information management can use for planning. This is how we can keep our sales people connected on the road? Awesome. What's it cost? This is how much it'll cost to add a branch office? Fine. What are the trade-offs of hosting our own apps versus that colo thing you mentioned?
Business really seems to have trouble properly utilizing technology assets. It's a problem that starts at the top and works its way down. If the top brass doesn't understand or doesn't care enough to understand, middle-management takes their cue from that and on down to the scut worker. IT cannot enforce compliance from the bottom up.
There simply needs to be more communication, cooperation, and respect between departments. Call me a nerd and disrespect me professionally? Go fuck yourself and yes, there's an app for that.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
"The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality."
I was a compuer-sciene major in college. I was a professional J2EE programmer from 1999 to 2005. My experience refutes that quote.
My experience from 1999 to 2005 was that I worked in a cube. Hardly ever worked under 45hrs/wk, and wrote code in a high-pressure environment.
The only time I was not in my cube was a few beginning meetings of a project, gathering requirements, writing use-cases, and such. I worked a lot. I got promoted. Then I started my family, and wanted to change my work/family time ratio. Felt compelled to get out of being at that job, and did so, in 2005.
Switched to IT at a nation-wide health care company. Stress was a bit less, but still 'heads down'. Finally got out of IT in 2008.
Uh, Linux geek since 1999.
As a physician who codes, I appreciate the tremendous advantage I have when using information technology. I also remember clearly enough writing thousands of lines of code in somebody's basement many years ago. FWIW, I think Reading, 'Riting, and 'Rithmatic should make room for a little ''Rerr handling" in a well rounded education. Ohh... and I do think that much of the development in science and medicine (and elsewhere )in the near future will involve handling large data sets.
Wait. Stop scrolling for a sec. O.K. Thanks. - P
Over the past decade, some states have carved out special exemptions applicable to information technology workers in their labor laws. Typically, these laws protect all non management and non professional employees. As a result of these exceptions, it has been in many companies best interest to classify anyone who does s/w development as even a small part of their work as an IT employee. In other words, lets not pay them overtime or give them access to other labor protection.
Its not so much that there aren't quite a few people who possess such cross functional skills. Its just that, as an electrical engineer, I'd be crazy to step up and identify my s/w skills. I'd be grabbed and shoved into the companies IT organization, where the benefits and respect suck by comparison. Fix this and I'll bet that quite a few similarly skilled people will pop out of the woodwork.
Have gnu, will travel.
I just heard a "cool nerd" in a radio ad. He was an articulate guy, he'd worked up to an IT manager position, and he'd bought a house in Pleasanton, CA.
Then his company had a major downsizing.
So what's he advertising? The homeless shelter and food bank where he now lives. Really.
That's where we are today.
50 years ago, companies had a secretarial pool of young women that could be assigned where ever was needed to type things up for easier duplication. 25 years ago, every executive had a secretary as that skill became critical to operations and moved throughout the company. Today, executives might have an assistant to handle clerical tasks (at the point of the business usage), but typing and communication is a critical business skill and everyone emails and most carry a Blackberry or other mobile communication device.
20 years ago, an IT Department made sense, it was "new" technology, with the server room being similar to the mainframe with central control. At this point, Network Support and Help Desk can be centralized and outsourced, just like office supplies are ordered from a centralized location, but Technology as a strategic resource? No department should be without technology in the department.
In 10 years, serious spreadsheet crunching should be the purview of everyone, as should basic database querying. Needing an analyst to gather your spreadsheet is like needing a secretary to type your emails.
ever heard of a paragraph break? I couldn't even make it through the summary! Like reading Marcel Proust's "Remembrance of Things Past" Sheesh...
"The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality"
Not the case at all if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a cube and be expected to be available 24x7 including holidays. That's the reality.
But one need not fear being in the basement.
I'm pretty sure they'll sell me beer even if I'm speaking broken Swahili with a lisp.
We did? Most districts whose requirements I've see never had shop as a requirement, have literature as a component (a bigger component in more advanced classes, but a component even in the most basic classes) of core English classes, and either require foreign language or have a requirement which can be filled with a foreign language or a short list of alternatives. Some also have home ec (usually under a different name) as a requirement in some "tracks" (primarily, those not intended as college prep tracks.)
That's a big problem with the focus of most computer classes, which are focussed on developing narrow proficiency in particular popular applications (and, for this purpose, programming languages are included) rather than basic principles. Really, I think that what is needed isn't so much a computer curriculum per se as process analysis practice integrated into the general curriculum, but computer programming can be a pretty ideal component of teaching that (that is not to say that computer classes -- even programming classes -- that don't focus on that goal are particularly good for that purpose, just that if you are focussed on that goal, computer programming is a good way of teaching it.)
We no longer need computing class, and we should avoid attempting to mass produce "geeks" because the more of them there are the lower wages they will command. We don't need more Cool Geeks to impress the public.
Fuck the public. Let them pay for what they want from us.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
It would be REALLY cool if every job I take wasn't at risk of being outsourced to fucking India.
As it is I'm thinking about changing careers and keeping the coding thing to just a hobby.
Not sure why you got insightful for regurgitating the jocks versus nerds stereotype. Should have got "inciteful."
Jocks and nerds are not a parallelism. I played sports my whole life and still studied mechanical engineering and learned Basic, Fortran, Perl, PHP, SQL, electronics etc... Sports - especially football - teach valuable skills such as personal determination, belief in yourself to achieve, social skills like team work and dealing with situations where one must follow direction, the ability to see the big picture rather than an introverted masturbation of self interested elite-ness, and a slew of other skills necessary for a *career* outside of the programmer's cube.
What successful nerds and talented jocks have in common is passion and determination. That's what kids lack today. Schools train our kids to be socialists waiting for a handout creating expectation of rewards for failure. Media and peers encourage kids to be apathetic; to wait for someone else to solve their problems or to obtain their goals. Look at the current issues facing the Obama administration - its outright responsibility- shift and accountability-shift from the individual to the taxpayers - especially the *successful* taxpayers.... No one seems to be accountable for their own failures!
To be good at any skill requires dedication, involvement, and perseverance. A well rounded nerd is simply a rare and unlikely individual due to the need to avoid those things that distract one from reading, studying, and experimenting.
If we really want "'cool' nerds" we need to eliminate any idea that someone else is going to earn/provide a living for us. We need to correct American ideas about entitlement and destroy concepts of "every one gets a trophy and all that other wimply crap. We need to give Nobel Prizes to people who actually accomplish stuff rather than people we hope will accomplish stuff. And we need to give computer jobs to Americans and keep American companies in America.
That's why we went into it: sunshine and people are scary :-)
Table-ized A.I.
At least if you learn German, you can visit oktoberfest 40 years from now, in theory.
I learned German, jeeze about 40 years ago + or - a year or two. I'd be pretty clueless at oktoberfest, "yah, ein beer bitte. Danke schoen fraulein".
I guess I wouldn't do all that bad :)
[John]
Shit better not happen!
The use of the N word has held our people down, this stereotype is why only a few of our people can reach the top. I for one can no longer stand this vile and derogatory term and will be burying it in my back yard tonight at 5:30 unless my yard is frozen in which case I'll be burring the N word under some snow and hopefully it will decompose by spring because the last thing I'm going to want to do is have to bury a half decomposed N word. Tomorrow will be a new day for all of us since all the cool people will no longer be able to call us names.
Knowledge = Power
P= W/t
t=Money
Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
> " ...if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. "
I resemble that remark!
As I read the article, I am currently in the basement of a large computer company writing code.
Our basements is not so bad, they light them up with artificial lights. Sometimes when I leave the building the sun hurts my eyes.
Does this mean there are Software Engineers that do *not* program in the basement? ... Absurd!
"Tempt not a desperate man" - Willy S.
Or, more likely, they don't want to move to India to get a job. I have a programming job right now, but a lot of developers I know are sitting at home in their underwear drinking beer and watching TV all day because they can't even get an interview, let alone a job. Of course some of that's the economy, but offshoring isn't going away. When the economy picks back up it seems likely that most of the new programming jobs will be in other countries.
Steve Lohr writes in the NY Times that the country needs more 'cool' nerds — professionals with hybrid careers that combine computing with other fields like medicine, art, or journalism.
Bad idea (not unless we are talking about people who have a BS/BA degree in a technical field pursuing another BS/BA degree - or even a MS - in another technical field. Now, THAT'S A HYBRID CAREER. We already have a problem with watered down CompSci and MIS programs churning chumps who can't code for shit themselves out of a wet paper bag. CompSci, MIS, Software Development and IT, these are fields that call for people that are domain experts and specialist, not watered down hobbyists with superficial and inadequate training.
It is quite telling of our society that when facing with a shortage of scientific/engineering talent, the solution is to make it more "cool" as opposed to raising the scholastic expectations of kids. As if "cool" makes up for the grey matter required to be a (good) software developer. Either the author thinks software disciplines are shallow enough that they can be weaved in with a medicine, journalist or even an arts curriculum (an art curriculum takes quite a lot of work to get through.) Either that, or he thinks these other disciplines can be watered down so as to allow someone to be graduate in both (notice that I say "graduate", not "be sufficiently competent.")
How come you don't see that type of mentality in India, China or, say Eastern Europe? You want kids to be interested in hard sciences (not just software disciplines)? Then raise the bar and academic rigor starting from 2nd grade all the way to 12th, where the objective is to learn and not simply to pass. You don't solve an educational deficiency by painting "cool" all over it.
On another note, I stopped reading the article when I hit this:
Today, introductory courses in computer science are too often focused merely on teaching students to use software like word processing and spreadsheet programs, said Janice C. Cuny, a program director at the National Science Foundation.
Say fucking what? I know that Computer Science curriculum in most universities have been watered down into Java/C# schools, but give me a fucking break. Either the journalist is misquoting Cuny, or she actually said - and I quote - that introductory courses in computer science are too focused on software like word processing and spreadsheet programs. If it's the later, someone kicks her out of the NSF. There is no "science" in that kind of stupid remark.
We are a social animal. We have this need to be part of a group and we also tend to try to categorize others so that we can have a general idea of who they are.
The guy likes sports? Jock. Jocks are supposed to act in a certain way so I suppose he will too. That's how humans think.
That's how it works.
And people don't prefer jocks to nerds. People like LEADERS. Jocks tend to become popular and lead groups, that's why they are "cool".
If nerds had a winning and outgoing attitude like the quarterbacks, everyone who want to be a nerd.
So, wait, if I understand you correctly, your solution is...give up?
I agree with many of the posters here in that we shouldn't force younger generations into something if they're not interested or not particularly talented in that area. For example, I will never be a physicist. It doesn't interest me and I'm most definitely not good at it. However, we should most definitely not give up on trying to introduce these topics to children and teenagers. If I had never had a friend of mine sit down and let me play a video game on his computer (complete with DOS), I would have never even known that world existed. Heck, if someone had just said, "You are going to learn about computers," I might have hated it too. But, when presented in the right way, I learned to love working with computers and it is now what I do for a living as well as a hobby.
Sure, there are many kids out there who aren't interested in much of anything other who is dating who, or what the latest fashion is. But, there are also many individuals who are excited and passionate about engineering, math, science, computing, business, literature, music, etc. We need to encourage those children so they can share their talents and help to improve the world. Just giving up is so absolutely defeatist I can't even get my brain around that type of thinking.
LOL unions, minimum wages, mandatory cost of living increases and living wages have killed guilds and apprentice programs. Apprentice programs are kinda like a draft. You have to discard your individuality and open your mind to the masters. You have to start from the bottom and work yourself up, build yourself up, and toughen yourself up. All these concepts are foreign to America's youth (and people who ridicule athletes and organized sports).
There are computer "nerds" who aren't stereotypical. I agree, more needs to be done to encourage these people to emerge, but there certainly are some cool nerds out there....Infact I skydive regularly and as a part time job I do fashion photography for various commercial sectors. So we do exist, but there's nowhere near enough of us!
'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.'
Hey, THAT is my reality, you insensitive clod!
There are two possible realities associated with this statement:
I don't know which reality is worse.
Many of my fellow techies have observed that "domain knowledge" is simply not valued. It's always a specific set of tools and IT buzzwords companies are looking for, not domain knowledge. One time industry knowledge on my resume helped me land a contract, but it was still the tech tools/languages that got me on the review list. If companies value domain knowledge more than tool knowledge, they don't act like it. This article simply contradicts my multi-decade experience in the IT field. Something is out of whack.
Maybe the article is simply a big euphemism for "nerds need more people skills". That may be true, but they seem too timid to outright say it. Sure, every company wants somebody with A+ people skills and A+ tech skills and wants to pay them D wages. And I want a Ferrari that runs on water.
Table-ized A.I.
And people in the western world do not want to pay craftsmen anymore. IT managers don't even believe they exist, and often manage programmers like conveyor belt workers. So what we need is better managers who know what they are doing (almost a contradictio in terminis, I know).
And off course the western world needs to wake up. What are we without craftsmen? A society of just managers and social workers? (insert Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy jokes here)
But what especially the USA needs is less lawyers And the "no cure no pay" system should be acknowledged as being criminal, because that is what made US courts into the gambling houses they are now. Programming is dangerous, just like building small aircraft is. The (very real) fear for billion-claims has wiped out most of the small aircraft industry, and small programming companies will go the same way if any random ridiculous claim can make you go bankrupt.
I mean, just read the stories on any day on slashdot. Would you want to become a programmer when you read it? Do you think your code is more than just a weapon in court? If I had to decide now, I'd have picked a safer and more rewarding profession.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
Whats the difference between computing class, and German class? I don't think "computing classes" are, by and large, needed.
Work tech support sometime - people treat the computer like it's magic and your the wizard - fix it without any info whatsoever and without inconveniencing them one whit.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
There is also a problem with what Americans expect to be paid. They want the same wages and benefits out of high school our parents took 30 years to achieve. American labor has a bloated sense of entitlement. American's think they deserve free stuff. There is plenty of room between American wages and Chinese or Indian wages.
There is NO U.S. economy.
The U.S. economy has imploded. The implosion will only be
accelerated by the Criminals-In-Congress who refuse to
implement universal health care to make U.S. companies
competitive.
Enjoy your consumerism in the New World Order.
Yours In Yasnogorsk,
K. Trout
You can push kids towards math and science careers all you want - but it's not going to work when they realize that it's the mortgage brokers and recruiters that are the ones driving around the BMWs. There are several problems: 1) Math and science people tend to be terrible business people. As such, they don't command the salaries that they deserve. Some of us that tend to be a bit more business savy are ineffective because when we try to play hardball, we get pushed aside because the next idiot is more easily manipulated. 2) People in other careers get supplimented on other ways. What do I mean by that? If I want a nice car, I pay for it with after tax dollars. If I want a nice steak and some wine, I go out and pay for it with after tax dollars - if I want to join a country club and play golf - yea it's on my own bill. My friends that work in sales don't really pay for any of these things - either their company absorbs the cost of their entertainment, or they have some way to write things off with tax laws. Yeah - my salary is pretty good - but I have to foot the bill for all of my lifestyle expenses, it makes a big difference
"Jock-O-Rama"
You really like gorillas?
We've got just the pet for you
It's the way you're forced to act
To survive our schools
Make your whole life revolve around sports
Walk tough-don't act too smart
Be a mean machine
Then we'll let you get ahead
Jock-O-Rama-Save my soul
We're under the thumb of the Beef Patrol
The future of America is in their hands
Watch it roll over Niagara Falls
Pep rally in the holy temple
And you're forced to go
Masturbate en masse
With the favored religious cult
Cheerleaders yell-"Ra Ra Team"
From the locker room parades the prime beef
When archaeologists dig this up
They'll either laugh or cry
Jock-O-Rama-On the brain
Redneck-a-thon drivin' me insane
The future of America is in their hands
Watch it roll over Niagara Falls
Unzip that old time religion
On the almighty football field
Beerbellies of all ages
Come to watch the gladiators bleed
"Now boys, this game ain't played for fun
You're going out there to win
How d'ya win?
Get out there
And snap the other guy's knee!"
Beat 'em up! Beat 'em up!
Ra Ra Ra
Snap those spinal cords
Ha Ha Ha
The star quarterback lies injured
Unconscious on the football field
Looks like his neck's been broken
Seems to happen somewhere every year
His mom and dad clutch themselves and cry
Their favorite son will never walk again
Coach says, "That boy gave a hundred percent
What spirit
What a man"
But who cares?
Games over-Let's go get wasted man
To the 7-11, to the liquor store
Let's party all night and party some more
Another Trans-Am
Wrapped itself around a telephone pole
"I ain't drunk, officer
I just fell gettin' out of my car"
Don't worry about it, son
We were that way when we were young
You've got all the skills
To make a damn good businessman
Jock-O-Rama-that's the law
Come lick the butts of the Beef Patrol
If the future of America is handed to them
Watch it roll over Niagara Falls
I was a "cool nerd" at the school linked below. The IT directors there are really changing education in regards to technology. The 1-to-1 program there is teaching students to use technology throughout each field of learning and learn where and when it's useful. Other schools should follow HC in their footsteps regarding technology and education. They use Macs primarily but they are teaching students how to use spreadsheets, not excel and so on. I wish this program was around when I was there though.
http://www.hollandchristian.org/1to1/program_overview
Getting a degree in computing is a tremendous amount of hard work and not for the faint of heart ... which is why I refuse to get one. At least I can pass an Algebra class! The simple truth is that computer science, algorithm analysis, etc ... is extremely difficult to master. No one's afraid of being percieved as 'nerdy' ... that'd be like being leery of being percieved as 'an eligible bachelor", "successful", "attractive", etc ... but just like the aforementioned, being nerdy and being good at it as hard work. Computer science classes shouldn't just be required to get any and every degree in science there is ... it should be required in order to graduate high school. People don't even know they might enjoy a career in computer science because the concept overwealms them. Children should be taught how to code as early as 6th grade and no later than their sophomore year of high school.
I'm not saying give up, I'm saying let things take their natural course.
Kids are already being exposed to things like computers; what family doesn't have a computer at home now? Plus a console game system? Open-source software is easily downloaded on the internet, and most families have internet access now. If kids want to become programmers or computer engineers, they're as exposed as they need to be.
Decades ago, kids didn't have to be "presented in the right way" about engineering careers to go into those careers; they went into those careers because they wanted to, and as a result, the USA sent men to the moon. These days, kids just aren't interested in these careers, and we need to accept this, and stop making these lame attempts at trying to push them into things they don't care about.
Besides, most kids bound for professional careers don't decide what they really want to do until they're halfway through college.
" you will be stuck in a basement, writing code"
It's more like being sentenced by Judge Dredd:
"25 years in the cube, perp."
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
In the 80s computer science was a popular major because anybody with that degree could make good money right off the bat. Now that experienced IT professionals are seeing their jobs off-shored, why would anyone want to devote the time and money to start a career with zero security?
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
who gets it into young kids heads that they should be like Britney Spears, or Michael Jordan. These people are morons and should not be put on a pedestal. I guess the redeeming part is that the media loves to prop them up, and then chop them down(Michael Jackson).
There. Fixed that for you.
There's nothing cooler than money. When "cool geeks" in the USA no longer have to compete with "cool geeks" in India making $5/hr, you'll see many more "cool geeks" in the USA.
Believe anything else and you're either delusional or trying to sell something.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
"Not enough young people are embracing computing, often because they are leery of being branded nerds..." Wouldn't that mean that young people didn't do anything nerdy? Last time I checked, there were plenty of nerdy fields outside of tech.
its a cultural issue, america values apple pie, nascar, football, git-r-dun and simple instructions for happier family life. in highschool i was picked last for everything and ostracised because i was in the AV club and very avid with computers. In a class with model m keyboards i was actually insisted upon to type slower because the noise from my keyboard was disruptive. later in life, In the business world, i dont get invited to the thursday nite poker tournament or the group bowling because im still the nerd. I dont get invited to the potlucks or the luncheons because im "part of IT" and somehow dont count. People are only my friend when they need me to help them with their sons laptop, or they have a question about their home wireless. I am suddenly a great guy to be around when their mouse stops working and they dont want to fight through remedy tickets to get a new one.
I am a nerd, but im a bitter one. fuck these mouthbreathing game-day retards and their culture of peanuts, circuses, and prime time sitcoms. if I am never their pick, so be it, but stop insisting to yourself that im too stupid to realize when you're exploiting me.
Good people go to bed earlier.
20 years ago, I would agree with the assessment that people who had any remarkable skills, or even an interest in computers at all were branded nerds, geeks, or whathaveyou. However, today, you'd be hardpressed to find ANY kid over the age of 5 that doesn't use a computer on a daily basis. Its use as a tool is no longer considered taboo, and I seriously doubt that people avoid them as a career choice has anything to do with branding. The possible problem today is that we're half a generation after high school students everywhere geared up for a computer science degree, and suddenly found themselves in an oversaturated market when the dotcom bust happened. Many students that followed were probably wary of it and instead chose "safer" degree paths, and career paths as a result.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
This seems a little self serving to people with a computer science background. Why not just proclaim that perhaps computer science is a nerdy and math oriented field as it truly is and instead work in modern tools into the courses in journalism and art etc.. with the computer training as part of the course. I don't understand why you would want to make a computer science course into a journalism course, they are not related. They should really be stating that they are outdated in teaching arts courses because they do not have the proper modern technology in it. Of course they may lead to a need for younger more knowledgeable teachers in those areas.
'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.'"
I don't know what reality this guy is talking about but I'm pretty much stuck in a basement writing code. I was trained as an architect,a welder and a diesel mechanic, so being all of those and being able to write code got me stuck in the basement.
Why bother
...obviously has no idea what he is talking about. I got my Masters in C.S. about 8 years ago and I don't know anyone who was deterred to be in the field because they were afraid to be labeled a nerd even back then.
Quite frankly, beyond high school, stupid things like that don't matter. Enrollment in C.S. goes up and down in waves.
And really, as an adult, being a nerd is a good thing. I have a job and a house and can buy cool stuff. A lot of people proudly self identify as nerds.
And some schools, like Colorado State, are now offering hybrid degrees where you can minor in C.S. and something like Biology and make it count as a major. So, really don't see where this guy is coming from.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
Perhaps it's sometimes more effective for people who aren't primarily geeks to show their nerdy side. I remember how nice it was when Pink Floyd presented the synthesizer they used in the Dark Side of The Moon, although it wasn't necessary to enjoy the music that was their main focus.
As for education, having Wolfram's Rule 90 as a part of an art class might interest someone in procedural 2D graphics. It's quick and easy to plot on graph paper using simple rules.
Apart from reading and education, what they could do is put cool hackers in movies. And even then, they should be creative. Usually movies depict hackers as someone who basically uses or works around someone else's product (The Matrix, Die Hard 4, I think), which is the idea that non-technical people have of computers in general. That is, they probably don't think they use computer _programs_ - they think they use software _products_. So, instead of being able to just work with existing systems, maybe it would be cool if they also did something original. For instance, someone could set up a time bomb using some kind of sleep(x) command, or something. Use a simple while(true) loop to do... something. Indefinitely. I don't know what, because I'm not cool.
It's not up to the nerds to start being cool. It's up to the general populace to start respecting scholarly pursuits.
In Asian culture, the most respected person in the community is the teacher. Someone who is highly educated is given the utmost respect. Of course, in America it seems like the opposite is true.
cubicle, not a basement. And only writing code if you're lucky. Otherwise you'll be doing the project "death by status report" dance.
I'd make some progress but I'm too busy reporting my lack of progress.
In my spare time I'm an Olympic gymnast and international pop star. Not!
nananana poker face nananana
Being a Nerd "Cool" or not is more undesirable then ever inthat it simply means you are more apt to be unemployed than anyone else as your job gets off-shored to boost the bonuses of the execs and make room for more middle management. If you really want more cool nerds you need to see to it that they can afford to live in this country without the fear of having their jobs off-shored on the whim of some short sided exec with no comprehension of the damage their actions pose to our economy and culture. Just my two cents..
"Former NFL star Dave Pear is sorry he ever played football" ..." ... ...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jeff_pearlman/12/18/pear/
"""
"I wish I never played football. I wish that more than anything. Every single day, I want to take back those years of my life
The words are not subtle. They spit from Pear's mouth, with a blistering contempt normally reserved for drunk drivers. We are speaking via phone. I am in New York, sipping a hot chocolate, leaning back in a chair. My two young children are asleep. A Pretenders song, "2000 Miles," plays in the background. No worries, no complexities. Pear is sitting at his home in Seattle. His neck hurts. His hips hurt. His knees hurt. His feet hurt. When he wakes up in the morning, pain shoots through his body. When he goes to sleep at night, pain shoots through his body.
Be a man! Be tough! "Those last two years in Oakland were very, very difficult times," he says. "I was in pain 24 hours per day, and my employers failed to acknowledge my injury. Sure, I won a Super Bowl ring. But was it worth giving up my health for a piece of jewelry? No way. Those diamonds have lost their luster."
Throughout North America, many of Pear's retired football brethren hear his words and scream, Amen! Conrad Dobler, the legendary Cardinals offensive lineman, is about to go through his 32nd knee surgery. Wally Chambers, the Chicago Bears' three-time Pro Bowl defensive end, spends much of his time in a wheelchair. Earl Campbell, the powder blue bowling ball, struggles to walk and underwent surgery to remove three large bone spurs. The list is both heartbreaking and never-ending -- one NFL player after another after another, debilitated either mentally, physically, or both. I'm currently working on a book that has led me to interview more than 150 former players. I'd say 60 percent experience blistering pain from a sport they last played two decades ago.
"And the NFL," Pear says, "doesn't care."
Hence, he is fighting back. Two years ago, Pear started a blog, davepear.com, with the intent of supporting hobbled NFL veterans and calling out the league's laughable disability policy.
"""
http://davepear.com/blog/
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
http://www.unschooling.com/
Lots of links on how and why schooling has failed:
http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2009-October/005379.html
http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2009-November/005584.html
More:
http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2009-November/006005.html
An easy fix: :-) because ultimately local schools will grow into larger vibrant community learning centers open to anyone in the community and looking more like college campuses. New York State could try this plan incrementally in a few different school districts across the state as pilot programs to see how it works out. This may seem like an unlikely idea to be adopted at first, but at least it is a starting point for building a positive vision of the future for all children in all our communities. Like straightforward ideas such as Medicare-for-all, this is an easy solution to state, likely with broad popular support, but it may be a hard thing to get done politically for all sorts of reasons"
http://www.pdfernhout.net/towards-a-post-scarcity-new-york-state-of-mind.html
"New York State current spends roughly 20,000 US dollars per schooled child per year to support the public school system. This essay suggests that the same amount of money be given directly to the family of each homeschooled child. Further, it suggests that eventually all parents would get this amount, as more and more families decide to homeschool because it is suddenly easier financially. It suggests why ultimately this will be a win/win situation for everyone involved (including parents, children, teachers, school staff, other people in the community, and even school administrators
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
I'm sorry, but, as a 15-year IT professional, the last thing I want is people in fields outside of IT learning computer science. I have a difficult time weeding through much of the crap produced by those within the field...expanding that to everyone else just makes the pile that much bigger.
While it has been profitable and career building cleaning up the messes left behind by accountants, managers and marketing people that thought they could develop software, design networks, "fix" PCs, etc., it has also been extremely stressful, frustrating and exhausting.
Often I feel as if there is no "real" IT work out there...that IT is simply acting the garbage man to the horde of messes that everyone else makes. While I don't complain about the good pay, it is not exactly a fulfilling career.
Interesting, I was hoping for a comment like that.
I'm considering doing something like Systems Biology (MSc + PhD). I don't think I want to spend my life doing programming jobs, but I do enjoy it. ...and looking at the deadlines for applications, I need to hurry up and decide unless I want to do another year-and-a-half of work.
LOL unions, minimum wages, mandatory cost of living increases and living wages have killed guilds and apprentice programs.
If I can interrupt your Ayn Rand circle-jerk session for a moment (don't worry - the rest of the football team won't notice), you may want to take a look at just about the only industries that *do* still have apprenticeship programs here in the US - the building trades (electrical workers, plumbers, carpenters, etc.) Odd that they are also the *most* unionized, *most* living-wage oriented industries, isn't it?
All that "apprenticeship" would mean in IT (especially without minimum wages) is that we'd have bastards trying to make a living here in the US on the $3/hr their Indian counterparts make.
When I was 12 years old (back in 1995-96) I was in the sixth grade and I learned how to build websites. The next year, in seventh grade, I learned how to code in basic on old Apple II's. In high school, (at Analy High School in Sebastopol, CA) I took two years of computer programming, in which we used visual basic and built awesome projects including some hilariously original and unique video games. So for many years my peers and I have been involved in computers and computer programming within our public education system. Not only did I have a great time designing and coding video games even back in high school, but this didn't prevent me and other friends like me from participating in school athletics, leadership, and other activities like music, art and theater. These days, it seems like everyone and their grandmother has an internet connection and participates in our huge blossoming digital communication culture. And while many modern computer users are not as well versed and/or trained in the art of programming, there are still plenty of us as there have been for many years. Web 2.0 technology already posits average computer users as co-creators of the web. I wholeheartedly concur that computer science is a fascinating subject and that it behooves us to encourage people to empower themselves by furthering their knowledge and understanding of these machines. That notwithstanding, I feel that with the prevalence of Internet use today, we are well beyond a time where being associated with computers is being associated with something that is socially "uncool" and that people who want to learn already have in their clutches the power of the information superhighway to help get them started!
You've actually got your very own boxes? That is soooo kewl, dood, really cool, guy.
Could you share with the rest of us your strategy in box procurement???
Out of curiosity, I asked a 20 year old full time student who the former vice president of America was for the past 8 years was.. I get a "?????".
Why would that person know? What difference would it make to their life?
I recall when I had my first opportunity to vote. At that point, I became interested in politics; at that point, I had an influence on it, so I had an interest in choosing the people who would have the best influence on me. Before then---why exactly would I care?
Also, I'm sad to say, often when I read the news, I hear about things that either don't influence me or that I can't influence. Why bother with that? The media is letting us down by not telling enough stories about how Joe Public called a member of parliament (or demonstrated, etc.) and had his representatives represent him better.
Maybe you can blame the parents for not making politics a dinner table discussion. But the youngsters who have never voted nor have had politics be a two-way street? Seriously? You're going to blame them?
Absolutely not! You'll be stuck in an office, writing code :)
The problem with the whole "nerd" perception originates from the so called nerdy attitude towards laymen. Of course, if somebody tells me that it's too complicated for you to understand, so I'm not gonna bother explaining, nevertheless because you don't know what I know you're a worthless piece of sh*t then I am going to discard them as nerd or something even worse. However, the truth is that people, in general, do acknowledge and respect somebody who is passionate in their field. In my experience as an applied physicist in Europe it has only been a couple of times when somebody's opinion has been influenced by what I do. ( and as a matter of fact, i don't want to have anything to do with those people) In conclusion... get the fuck out of your basements and talk to people, it will pay off better than you think.
At least if you learn German, you can visit oktoberfest 40 years from now, in theory.
I prefer visiting Oktoberfest in person. Visiting it in theory seems rather pointless.
... and then they built the supercollider.
I have lived through the morass called corporate IT for two decades now. I share your sentiments with respect to the meat-grinder which makes us responsible for "training" disinterested, unqualified contractor to assume our responsibilities so that some arbitrary budget goal can be obtained. The difference between a warm body and an engaged and didactic peer is indisputable, but keeping a smart and talented individual from realizing their market value is the full-time job of at least two layers of middle management and an entire cottage industry of contract shops like Adecco.
My variance is with your assessment of economic principles and schools... Keynes accepted the inverse relationship between labor pool size and wages as an axiomatic of CLASSICAL economic principles; however, like Galbraith, he recognizes the marginal diminishing effectiveness with respect to specialization.
It's the Austrian school that canonizes the inverse relationship between labor and wages as inviolable, hence the drive towards globalization as the key factor in realizing aggregate maximum value. Continual improvement will workout the details of minimizing the wage component.
Masters thesis on Hayek's influence on 1970's California politics.
In a quite unusual development, the government, the main trade unions, farmers and industrialists came together and agreed on a program of fiscal austerity, slashing corporate taxes to 12.5 percent, far below the rest of Europe, moderating wages and prices, and aggressively courting foreign investment. In 1996, Ireland made college education basically free, creating an even more educated work force.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/29/opinion/29friedman.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print
I'd like to buy homeland for our 10 million people. http://twitter.com/mahadiga
Just because they don't have action poses or quick witted dialog on TV shows. No, a lot of times, Nerds just like to figure things out, and actually think. Letting people actually think, play, experiment, and make stuff is what made the USA great. Having a bunch of idiots jabbering all the time is what wrecked the USA.
This is my sig.
It's all about the Girls. People will do thing's that will get the women to like you. Young girls want the sport starts, and if you do well, you will have girls throwing themselves at you on mass. Local football stars here in Australia, have girls throwing themselves at them on mass and the girls are proud of it. Asain girls seem to be differnet, as they quite like the nerds...
Maybe if you liked Apple Pie and Football you might get invited out to the thursday night poker tournament. People don't avoid you because you know computers. People avoid you because you are obviously contemptuous of their culture. I'd bet you'd find plenty of these NASCAR gun toting get-r-doners that would run rings around you in a machine shop or working on making stuff at home or working on the yard and solving some interesting problems to do so.
Guess the question is, if you are the one being so exploited, then, whose really the mouthbreather, you, or them?
This is my sig.
My sister is a public school teacher, and once you count the value of the extra vacation, fully-employer-paid health insurance, compensated continuing education, we make the same money.
Add to that the fact that she gets a legislatively-guaranteed raise every year that exceeds inflation and has union protections including tenure, and the deal isn't bad at all.
And here I thought that a nerd was an
"intelligent but _single-minded_ person".
But then again cool nerd is an oxymoron too.
oxymoron+oxymoron=moron
I disagree with you on one thing. I think computing is a part of basic mathematics. Or rather, mathematics is a part of basic computing ;-).
"If we really want "'cool' nerds" we need to eliminate any idea that someone else is going to earn/provide a living for us."
I guess you're confusing football players with "nerds". I don't think I'd be going too far out on a limb to claim that "I deserve it" is a mantra much more adopted by athletes than CS and IT folks.
If being "cool" is about working hard and making the extra effort, I'd say we're pretty cool already.
How many movies exist about musicians, writers, and actors? How many songs are about music and dance?
I've heard it advised to write about what you know. And what do [musicians|writers|actors] know? [Music|writing|acting].
I suppose everybody values their own profession/interest especially highly; with the entertainment industry, in addition to that factor, they must also figure that they come up with better/easier-to-write stories by discussing their own experience.
A classic in that genre:
"...Johnny B. Goode
Who never ever learned to read or write so well
But he could play the guitar just like a ringing a bell..."
I understand that the first part of that excerpted statement is a problem.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
OK, I wouldn't expect a guy calling himself "Tikun" to know it, but those are hipsters you're thinking of. Everyone hates those nihilistic, aimless douchebags with their angry-young-man complexes. They don't define cool for the rest of us.
Do you have any actual data on this supposed sense of entitlement? Because us laborites have real data on the 30-year drop in real, after-inflation wages across the board for all Americans.
Many moons ago I was a kid who saw his first computer in college -- an IBM 360. I went full tilt nerd. By the time classes started I was working the hell desk at the computer center. I got there early and didn't leave till 3am. By the second year of undergrad study I was taking graduate classes in 360 assembly language and working on the Fortran compiler I/O routines for what we called mini computers (the size of a stand up fridge with "4096 twenty four bit words of core storage"). Shit we were using paper tape and punch cards.
I screwed off all my other classes. Hell, even my comp sci prof's were nuts, I got a 0.0 gpa in one class because the prof went nuts, tried to kill the head of the datacenter, and was locked in a white room unable to give grades. At the end of semester 4 I had a gpa of 0.16/4.00 and was the lead programmer in a successful project to redo the university's accounting setup from Autocoder into COBOL.
Then I got the word....VIETNAM. I had one summer term to get my grades up or go see exotic foreign lands. I say fuck football, the prospect of being shot will broaden your horizons.
Forty years later I'm looking at a 2:00 a.m. conclusion to upgrading 3 linux desktops. I run a small linux based hosting company, but disappear every summer to run a 90' commercial fishing boat in Alaska for 4+ months.
The threat of being shot works best when it comes to producing "cool nerds".
I think you are right, we need to teach how computers can be used in every field, not just some text editing and how to make a sound when a target appears on the screen in power point.
Teaching about computers has become as interesting as teaching about polynomials.
There is tons of fascinating tools that can be used in every field with out having to program... Then bringing in programming as a solution to each field would be fantastic. What I mean is something like this: First, In art class, teach how to model using a 3D modelling program. Then teach how to animate it using a programming language. One can do the same thing in every discipline. Of course that would require the teachers to admit they don't know something, which would go over like a lead balloon.
You didn't mention his name but to answer your question, -273.15 degrees Celsius.
We do not speak his name.
Tricking Word 2007 into doing what you want is more of an art than a science.
Particularly ironic since most of those players wound up taking steroids to build up muscle mass, starting in college or even in high school, because only those willing to do so had a chance at providing the performance required at the pro level. Those steroids often caused irreversible changes in cartilage to bone that made joint damage both more likely and more severe. I can't believe there hasn't been a class action lawsuit yet in the lawsuit-happy US.
You're going to have to put an end to the excessive bullying in schools. And while you're at it, why not spend some time, money, and effort on science education in this country? Without those two things, the situation will never be rectified.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
1. Can't mass produce quality.
2. Mass production of programmers happened in the 90's... businesses have since hired people (like me) to determine quality of professional.
3. To make it in this business you have to be willing to educate yourself over and over again.
4. What you learned yesterday may be wrong today.
5. Trick to being a top engineer... professional brain dumper, fact checker and documentation wiener.
Documentation is for you to give to these mass produced maintenance punks so you can go on to the new stuff.
"'The fear is that if you pursue computer science, you will be stuck in a basement, writing code. That is absolutely not the reality.'"
But ... but ... but I WANT to be stuck in a basement, writing code!
[sob]
... the US economy needs Buckaroo Banzai.
LOL - r u serious? Try some news sources other than Slashdot... Unions demanding raises in the middle of recessions without increasing productivity or responsibility? Outrageous exec pay and bonuses; Students demanding free or subsidized education; Students demanding buildings stay open 24 hrs without contributing extra fees to for staff; Demands for free health care services providing by taxing others; it goes on... everyday.
"Real data on inflation" doesn't not negate a sense of entitlement - PLUS, you are arguing that because of inflation, the wages are actually lower - thus the workers are *entitled* to more money. You have provided the first hand data that people have a sense of entitlement!!!!
Nerds create Jar Jar Binks did they!
Cool will they be never!