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New MacBook Pros Launched
Art Vanderlay writes "Apple's new MacBook lineup has launched with a refresh to the MacBook, MacBook Pro, and MacBook Air models. As expected, the MacBook and MacBook Air both feature Core 2 Duo processors, as does the 13. The 15 and 17 models come with a choice of i5 or i7. Memory is 4GB across the board, with an optional upgrade. Additionally, the new line may include three different types of screen options: Glossy, High Resolution Glossy, and High Resolution Glossy with Anti-Glare. A second person familiar with the matter adds that at least some models will support 512GB of Solid State Drive (Flash) storage."
Oh pretty! fwap fwap fwap fwap.
(What? That's the response this "article" was looking for, wasn't it? Just doing my part)
Sent from your iPad.
Shiny, yes ... but what languages am I allowed to use when I develop for them?
I would seriously like a serious opinion from other people. Are apple's machines, in particluar their notebooks overpriced?
I mean it...
Dear
Low video ram 256m in a $1800 laptop? and a $400 ram upgrade?
NO E-sata NO firewire 1600 / 3200 NO USB 3.0?
NO ExpressCard/34 slot in the 15" system as well?
We've gone full circle from matte to glossy to "glossy with anti glare"? Great!
(anti-glare comes at a premium I assume...)
No sig today...
so how can a screen be glossy and anti-glare at the same time? gloss==glare
I don't know about the batteries, but wallets will still be susceptible to the infamous shrinkage.
Mac mini / Mac pro still NOT UPDATED and same price with the mac pro with it way out date and week video card. Also this makes the imacs prices look bad as most of them still have core2 and the lower systems did not get better video like the 13" mac pros did.
NOW apple where is the I5 / I7 desktop system (head less) with mid range with upgrades to better cards starting at $800 $1000 $1200? The Imacs at $1,499.00 with only core 2 and only 4670 graphics with 256MB is not cutting it for your new gaming push and the mini needs to be alot better at $800.
after following the link looks to me like a cross between elive and some compiz effects. Apple lost my business after they cheaped out on the hardware. I used to own mac's but what's the point now that they use Intel Core Duo cpu's.
A second person familiar with the mattered[sic] adds that at least some models will support 512GB of Solid State Drive (Flash) storage.
Er, so it took a second person to go to the Apple Online Store and find that out?
Oh, and for those without a second person around to check for them, the 512GB SSD comes up as a BTO option on all models (at the low low price of $1300 - $1450!).
Also, do not forget the 2009 Mac Pro is a dog.
It has problems with Firewire, PCI Express, RAID to name a few. At least they sorted out the overheating issue while playing audio (which was a software problem). We do not just want a spec update (which last years spec update was woeful), but a machine we can use as a workstation and know that they are reliable.
so we're still due two more Apple articles today. Unless these new MacBook Pros run iPhone OS, then I suppose it would count, sort of.
And no.
Apple charges a premium because it can. It is not like they are the only supplier in town. It is trivial to buy another brands laptop. If there are 3 brands of cola in the supermarket and one ask $1.000.000 dollars, then it still ain't overpriced, because the other cans can be bought just as easily.
Something can only be considered overprice if there is no easy alternative.
And Mac's tend to be a decent price when they launch when their hardware tends to push the edge. It is when they are 1-2 year old that Apple really starts cleaning up when they have the same hardware with the same prices but component prices have dropped.
But hey, if you want a cheaper deal, go shop.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Also, I'm in the market for a new toaster. Can a nerd get some info, eh?
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
which fooled many into believing they would offer quad core processors in their laptops.
Granted Intel needs to be slapped for having both share the same names. The angst over this little issue on some boards is truly hilarious
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
I use a MBP daily and a big problem for me is the sharp edge on the bottom where your wrists naturally rest when you type. I've seen videos where guys have taken a Dremel to bevel the edge themselves. Anyone know if they fixed that in the new version?
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
I've had a MacBook Pro for a couple of years now and overall I'm not impressed. The aluminum case dents super easily, there are only two USB ports, I am on my second power adaptor and second battery, and my DVD drive no longer burns DVD's. Furthermore, it gets so hot you cannot have it on your lap without a layer of asbestos between it and your legs.
-Xoltri
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1. Yeah, it's silly to only have 512mb on the high-end models. But most non-gamers won't care.
2. 4GB DDR3 SO-DIMMs are still expensive. Other PC manufacturers charge about the same.
3. eSATA isn't "sleek" enough for Apple; it needs a second power cable, has a relatively flimsy plug, has hot-plugging/compatibility issues, etc, etc. They'd much rather people use Firewire.
4. Firewire 1600/3200 won't exist on consumer gear until at least late 2010.
5. Intel is dragging their feet on USB 3.0, which means most computers and peripherals won't see it for at least another year.
6. Most people don't use ExpressCards; they'd rather have a slightly larger battery or other features taking up the space.
If it's not what you're looking for in a notebook, last time I checked you're still allowed to not buy one. And if your primary considerations are how well it plays games and how many different things you can have plugged into it, might I suggest you look at desktops instead?
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
...if you have a Klingon Programmer.
12) "Specifications are for the weak and timid!"
11) "This machine is a piece of GAGH! I need quad i7 processors if I am to do battle with this code!"
10) "You cannot really appreciate Dilbert unless you've read it in the original Klingon."
9) "Indentation? I will show you how to indent when I indent your skull!"
8) "What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not make software 'releases'. Our software 'escapes', leaving a bloody trail of designers and quality assurance people in it's wake."
7) "Klingon function calls do not have 'parameters', they have 'arguments' - and they ALWAYS WIN THEM."
6) "Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Our software does not coddle the weak."
5) "I have challenged the entire SQA team to a Bat-Leth contest. They will not concern us again."
4) "A TRUE Klingon Warrior does not comment his code!"
3) "By filing this bug report you have challenged the honor of my family. Prepare to die!"
2) "You question the worthiness of my code? I should kill you where you stand!"
1) "Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!"
Best Slashdot Co
I don't think the Air or Macbook were updated either because I can't seem to find anything about it and the store still has the old ones.
Well, it has never been successfully tested.
Well, yeah.... because Apple historically does updates of only one product line at a time. Today is Macbook Pro update day... NOT Mac Mini or Mac Pro or iMac update day.
If you've kept up with the rumors sites at all (or even "tech" site that occasionally discussed it), it sounds like a new Mac Pro has been in development for a while now, and most likely is coming pretty soon. Among other things, it will supposedly feature Intel's new "Light Peak" cabling technology (http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10370349-264.html).
I really don't think the Mac Mini is a big priority for Apple at this point. Its initial release was important, because it helped MANY people make the initial jump from Windows PCs to "testing the water" with a Mac running OS X. But currently, an iMac really makes a lot more sense for most people. The Mac Mini has become more of a "niche" system, being purchased primarily by people wanting it for various projects (such as a home theater machine to leave attached to a big-screen TV, or an in-car computer). The recent offering of an OS X Server version of the Mini was another interesting "niche use" for such a system.
And where are the headless desktop upgradable Macs? Non-existent ... same as every day since Jobs took Apple back over and released OS X. People always bring that up and suggest Apple "needs to make one, now!" -- but apparently, Apple doesn't. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a cool system, or sell really well. I'm just saying, it's obviously not part of their marketing strategy and someone running numbers must have determined it winds up more profitable for Apple to deny people that choice. (Causes loss of some business, but also drives a lot of sales of bigger, more expensive Macs like Mac Pros, I imagine.)
Ohway onay! Onay oremay Acmay evelopingday orfay emay! Ymay odecay onlyway unsray inway Igpay Atinpay!
Really? You're bringing up what's most likely a 6 year old post on the Pentium 4 to try to explain pipelines to me? Hah!
Yes, Intel chips are the sux0r and IBMs Power processors were waaay faster because they had less Ghz so they obviously did more with those Ghz!
$2400 will get you the top of the line 15" MacBook Pro. A similarly specced Dell Precision Mobile Workstation will only have a superior video card (Quadro FX 1800M), and maybe a higher def screen, and certainly vastly superior docking options and ports. Battery life and portability are the big drawbacks to the PC side of the aisle.
At the high end of things, the computer you buy depends entirely on your main application. For anyone in digital content creation, you have to have OS X in order to have Logic and Final Cut. If you're making movies, music, or web pages, you're probably going to get a Mac. If you're mainly an engineer or business applications user or developer, you're going to get a PC. If all you do is check Facebook or troll slashdot, the Apple logo is a very expensive brand name, but the MacBook or a used MacBook Pro with the extended warranty is probably worth the money compared to trying to maintain a virus-free windows installation. If you don't need any commercial application support, dual monitor support, etc., a netbook or notebook preinstalled with Linux is a great option.
Personally, I usually have the latest gen MacBook Pro* triple booted with Windows 7 and Ubuntu, since I have clients all over the board. The new terabyte 2.5" 12mm drive from Western Digital fits in the unibody models, so I have a 500G data partition, 250 for OS X (Logic/Final Cut are huge), 150 for 7, and 100 for Ubuntu.
OS X is a great operating system, it's just unfortunately in the hands of perhaps the biggest douchebag in the world. I hope after his reign has passed, the company falls apart and OS X is unshackled from Mac hardware and the black hole that is his ego.
*yes, I get it. It's supposed to be funny.
Can somebody translate this bit into English for me please?
".. A second person familiar with the mattered adds that .."
Maybe I am tired but I don't understand this bit....
If OS X isn't worth $1000 to you, then OS X isn't worth $1000 to you. It's obviously worth that much to some people. It's not like Apple's anemic quirky hardware is worth that much, that's for sure.
Apple's new MacBook lineup has launched with a refresh to the MacBook, MacBook Pro, and MacBook Air models.
I'm pretty sure that only the MacBook Pro models have been updated. The MacBook and MacBook Air seem the same.
Other than the overheating issue, I haven't had a single problem with my 2009 Mac Pro's Firewire, PCI Express, or RAID performance. If the 2009 Mac Pro is a dog, it's an insanely fast dog.
Did you actually just use "Linux and open source" and "Visual Studio" in the same post?
not having windows is worth $971. Snow Leopard is $29.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
But still, WHY would I pay $1,450 more for the MacBook Pro?
Screen resolution, quality and reliability of parts, decent touch pad, decent speakers, mag connect power, Firewire for video work, no driver issues with the video card and OS, faster hard drive, multiple non-mirrored video displays, 2 pounds lighter to carry around, DVI, backlit keyboard, more than twice the battery length, automatic graphic card switching, slightly better bluetooth... that's most of it. Well and it can run and comes with OS X, which means more to most of us than the rest of it.
You can make the same comparison though with a higher end Dell laptop. It has a lot more features than the Acer and it costs more. If you don't need a high end laptop, don't buy one. If you live you life in front of laptop, well you might want to spring for one that is higher quality, more reliable, and more featureful. A grand is what, a week or two of consulting for a professional. Hell adding the new Adobe CS Suite will bump up the price $2600 but if it's the best tool for the job, it pays for itself in short order.
Yes, but I can avoid Microsoft Windows by installing Ubuntu 9.10 (is 10.4 out yet?). I don't need to pay $971 for that.
If build quality, battery life, multitouch trackpad, backlit keyboard, and resale value mean nothing to you, but all means go with the Acer.
I dunno. Why don't you check with a member of that famously rabid Lenovo fanbase...? Or those crazy young people who are always saying, "Once you go Compaq, you can't go back" ?? Why, I believe there's a whole community of bloggers who track every little thing that HP CEO Mark Hurd says or does. It'd be crazy of slashdot to ignore all these hardcore fanatics and tastemakers... wouldn't it? Heck, I think slashdot should send a camera crew out to the Dell Store in Manhattan to interview all those crazy kids sleeping on the sidewalk, wanting to be among the first to get that new model Inspiron.
I'll consider buying one when they finally get the editing keys (home, end, pgup and pgdn) instead of a key combo and and Intel Gigabit chip.
Onda Technology Institute
0) "What? Our software crashed? Maybe today is a good day to die!"
"If thou value your computer as a list of specifications, then you are as dead to us."
The Book of Jobs, 17.04.68.3
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
3. eSATA isn't "sleek" enough for Apple; it needs a second power cable, has a relatively flimsy plug, has hot-plugging/compatibility issues, etc, etc.
I was really excited about eSATA on my last laptop. I plugged it in once to try it out, and never have since. My USB drive is perfectly adequate, more portable, doesn't require external power, etc.
6. Most people don't use ExpressCards; they'd rather have a slightly larger battery or other features taking up the space.
Damn straight. Who makes ExpressCards, anyway? What can you get in them? I remember talk of things like high-end video cards, capture cards, etc. but has any of it materialized/are they any good? And are you going to actually want one in a laptop?
I agree with the rest of your points, too, but these two hit home.
Lenovos's new ThinkPad lineup has launched with a refresh to the T, W, and ThinkPad Edge. As expected, the T series and W both feature Core i7 processors, as does the 13" X201. The 15 and 17 models come with a choice of i5 or i7. Memory ranges from 2GB to an available 16GB with an optional upgrade. Additionally, the new line may include dozens of different screen options: Glossy, Glossy with Anti-Glare, Matte, all available in a variety of resolutions, as well as a dual-screen option on the W701 laptop. A second person familiar with the matter adds that at least some models will support dual 128Gb Solid State Drive (Flash) storage.
And now I feel like a shill just for writing that up, so I'll skip HP, Dell, and Compaq.
So much for that whole "Apple is the BMW of computers" nonsense.
You might expect the company that built it's reputation around "quality" and "user experience" to have some pride and take some responsibility.
Instead we get the usual lame cult excuses.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
whoosh.
having a UNIX based OS that's got full vendor support and local hardware service should anything go wrong is worth it. Besides, the discrepancy is 600 bucks, and Apple's offering more stable hardware with a much better battery.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Howdy doodly do. How's it going? I'm Talkie, Talkie Toaster, your chirpy breakfast companion. Talkie's the name, toasting's the game. Anyone like any toast?
What, so the fact that they do have a freephone number and send out a pre paid box is somehow not taking pride or responsibility?
You are basing Apple's pride and responsibility on a third party vendor who sells Apple products?
When you are dealing with a mass produced product you're going to get the odd lemon. They have procedures for dealing with such things, and will even pay for your shipping and the phone call (as many companies will - I know it's not a special unique thing).
Faster hard drive? The specs say 5400 RPM. RDF at work again...
The Macs not only operate longer over the years, but in those years, they don't get crufted up and worthlessly slow. My 5 year old Powerbook G4 will out surf a 2 year old Dell laptop in this office any day.
If you buy a new machine every 2 years anyway, maybe the Windoze will cost you less. But if you want to keep the machine running, and *gasp* pass down to your kids, then buy a Mac.
Still no eSATA. No USB 3. No SATA III (6GB/s). No Blu-ray. SSDs are still Samsung models which do not use any of the top 3 controller technologies (SandForce, Intel, Indilinx Barefoot). 1920 x 1080 or 1920 x 1200 resolution still not available on 15" models.
All the things I'd been hoping would make it to the next MBP didn't. Looks like I'll be sticking with my 2006 Core2Duo 15" MBP a while longer.
I recently took my old Core Duo macbook (not pro) in to the apple store with a swollen battery and they replaced the battery no charge in 5 minutes. And apologized for my trouble.
The shell is very stiff and strong. I've killed 3 laptops by weakening the case, which then flexes the motherboard and components when I pick it up. So this is worth extra money to me.
The trackpad is huge and supports gestures. I have a Fingerworks pad attached to my PC at work so needless to say this is worth extra money to me as well.
The CPU, memory, storage, and drive are all pretty fast, so I'm not going to compare this to the cheapest Dell or HP.
I like OS X better than Windows and that's a personal preference, but it's worth a bit extra to me.j
I have a MacBook Pro that is about 1.5 years old--one of the first ones that came out with this new form factor. I really like it and think it was worth the price, but I'm not planning to upgrade to the newest model.
You can save some money, but get the same quality and warranty coverage, by buying a refurbished machine through the Apple Store.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Now they are mostly on par with my Dell Latitude E6500 (or a Precision M4400, which has the better graphics card) at about $700 more. (Both of them run OS X Snow Leopard, with updates, really, really well.)
They do look ridiculously good, though.
You're unlikely to ever see a headless midrange - the iMac is it.
It won't be long before the iMac is updated with i5 across the board, with optional i7, and more powerful graphics. The 4850 option in the 27" is pushing it for heat at the moment as it is.
Valve's decision to make OS X a tier 1 platform should help to spur on the inclusion of much better GPUs - it's a feature of Apple's lineup that has always been the weak spot. My late 2006 iMac is still perfect for everything I need it for today except for the graphics card. If it had initially had a beefier card then I wouldn't be considering swapping it for a more powerful one until at least a year from now, but I'm feeling it slightly for some things (mainly games).
Yes, of course. Missiles come in batteries, as well as rockets and artillery pieces. Putting dicks in that category seems a logical extension.
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
Who makes ExpressCards, anyway? What can you get in them? I remember talk of things like high-end video cards, capture cards, etc. but has any of it materialized/are they any good? And are you going to actually want one in a laptop?
I'm sure there are some perfectly valid niche uses, but I've always felt that PCMCIA and ExpressCard slots were concerning due to the robustness of the connector (number of insertions) and stress on the surrounding components and the card itself because you've got this big lever sticking out...
Apple MacBook Pro
15-inch: 2.53GHz (1440x900 -- Optional 1680x1050 still not 1080p and costs $100)
Intel Core i5
4GB Memory
500GB hard drive
SD card slot
Built-in 8- to 9-hour battery
Intel HD Graphics
NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M with 256MB
$1,999.00
Dell Studio 15
Intel Core i5-430m
4GB Memory
500GB 7200RPM HD
ATI Mobility Radeon 5470 1GB
15.6" HD 1080p High Brightness LED display
85 Whr 9-cell battery
$1,114.00
screen - winner Dell (even with the optional upgrade to the mac)
vid card - basically tie, slight edge to dell
memory - tie
cpu - tie
battery - tie
HD - tie
cost - Dell is still 965$ cheaper with the screen upgrade to the mac to make them as similar as possible.
I think it's clear which is better. You pay almost double for the mac and get less. I would like to switch but they just never make it viable. $100 premium is one thing. This is just insane.
Check Wikipedia -- quad Core i7 CPUs are available, but Apple has chosen not to use them. My guess is that it's because they require more power to run, and are only available at a top speed of 2.0Ghz.
Faster hard drive? The specs say 5400 RPM. RDF at work again...
$50 whole dollars upgrades you to 7200RPM. No RDF. Just RTFM.
"We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
Also, I'm in the market for a new toaster. Can a nerd get some info, eh?
You may have to wait a while, if you get your news here:
Anonymous sources in Cupertino today leaked the specs of the iToaster to be released April 1, 2011....
What part of `yes no` don't you understand?
Apple have concentrated too much on the iPad and battery life. This machine is unappealing. What's needed for serious users:
Quad core CPU with hyperthreading, not dual core
Fast SSD, not some generic thing whose speed Apple does not specify - because it is so slow
Still only 8Gb max memory?
Blu-ray writer / second HD / empty slot options
USB 3
Built in WWAN - who wants a dongle?
How about a machine without a battery? - most laptops are used at a power outlet anyhow...
And how about a 6" clamshell model we can put in our pockets instead of that ridiculous iPad thingy...
I am thinking more along the lines that the quad-core i7's don't have the embedded Intel HD graphics in them - and this would create some problems for Apple's dual gpu methodology. Still - the dual-core i7's and i5's have a turbo-boost speed greater than that of the quad-cores - which may be another reason.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can write open source software with Visual Studio. Even some for Linux. I thought the lack of headline was pretty classless too.
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
... That comparing Mac to PC prices on the basis that most computer buyers are not buying a specification. What most people use a computer for can be done on a netbook. Unless you will be using apps that require more horsepower, they're fine.
Many will choose between laptops on budget, screensize, appearance and intangibles.
Mac tend to win on appearance and intangibles, just like some car manufacturers do. If people can afford something the size they need they'll pay more for BMW than Ford; even if in someways the Ford is better.
Apple have built impressive brand values and get a higher margin for it.
Is that even news? Of something other than an acheivement?
Whaddaya want? Them to apologise for making more money selling essentially the samething?
I think they look like nice little laptops, but for I've never been willing to pay that much for a piece of electronic hardware that is intended to be carried around, unless it's got a carbon fiber shell, mil-spec components and remote self-destruct anti-theft protection. That's too much money to spill coffee on.
Based on my ownership of many Macs and PC's, I'd say my Macs have definitely had longer useful lives...but I could always buy two PC's for what I spent on each Mac.
The Accord is still the cheaper larger-sized sedan offering while the Civic is the small/mid-sized sedan. A correct analogy would be a Honda Accord compared to an Acura TL or any other luxury brand like Audi A4, BMW 3 series, Lexus etc.
Why do so many people neglect to compare size, weight, and battery life? These are notebooks! If you are looking for something that sits on your desk plugged in and only occasionally moves, then yeah, Apples probably aren't what you are looking for - you can save hundreds of dollars by getting a larger, heavier laptop with less battery life.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
but the i7 at least supports HT, so you get 4 virtual cores, which can result in a speedup over just 2 real cores.
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
I would probably install Linux on it.
I'm looking forward to buying one of these for my son. He's been using his desktop Mac Mini with no problems since we bought it in middle school, and could use a solid state laptop (with the student discount) for classes.
Any word on how well they will integrate with the fall version of the iPad? Would it be better to get one of those Mac AirPort wireless routers to run both the iPad and the MacBook off of, with the older Mac Mini hanging off the hard line output? We have Comcast cable modem until Seattle (Fremont) gets Google 1000 Gbps - like what we have here at the UW already.
The best part of having a Mac is never having to spend all that time doing patches and updates.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Fn + Arrow Keys does all that -- or at least does on my old G4 powerbook. What's the max throughput on the non-intel gig-e chip? It probably exceeds the read/write of the internal HD, and FW drives are hot-swappable if speed is really an issue :)
moox. for a new generation.
When toasters really do run Linux...
You jest, but this toaster runs NetBSD, and it's not even a recent story.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
But still, WHY would I pay $1,450 more for the MacBook Pro?
Screen resolution, quality and reliability of parts, decent touch pad, decent speakers, mag connect power, Firewire for video work, no driver issues with the video card and OS, faster hard drive, multiple non-mirrored video displays, 2 pounds lighter to carry around, DVI, backlit keyboard, more than twice the battery length, automatic graphic card switching, slightly better bluetooth... that's most of it. Well and it can run and comes with OS X, which means more to most of us than the rest of it.
You can make the same comparison though with a higher end Dell laptop. It has a lot more features than the Acer and it costs more. If you don't need a high end laptop, don't buy one. If you live you life in front of laptop, well you might want to spring for one that is higher quality, more reliable, and more featureful. A grand is what, a week or two of consulting for a professional. Hell adding the new Adobe CS Suite will bump up the price $2600 but if it's the best tool for the job, it pays for itself in short order.
I own MBP produced in 2008. The battery has been replaced twice - the last one only worked less than a year. There are some artifacts on the LCD screen. DVD recorder does not record dual layer disks. MagSafe is "repaired" with duck tape; socket plug is very easy to crack when inserting into the tight power socket. Occasionally it doesn't startup (black screen of death). There are issues with Atheros wireless card. Quality and reliability? It's a fucking urban legend. Read Mac forums; I am far from being alone with these issues. Never ever anything from Apple.
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Was the original post just a wall of text, too? Next time, maybe just link to it?
A few people were talking about trying to find 'equivalent' PCs and mentioning things like the Dell Precision Mobile Workstation, which isn't really at all the same (they're huge). This is the nearest 'wannabe Macbook' that I found (and ordered):
HP Envy 15
It's definitely aimed squarely at the MBP, and while the build quality is not as good as Apple's, I have to admit that it's come a very long way since the last time I looked in on HP's notebooks. They're also doing better with service options - they offer in-home service now just like Dell does (used to be mail-in).
They routinely have $200, $300, or even (until quite recently) $450 off coupons, so I wouldn't advise buying one at full price. This is what I ended up with:
5.15 lbs @ 1.1" thick (more with the slice battery attached)
i5-540 CPU @ up to 3.06 GHz
4 GB DDR3-1066 RAM
320 GB Intel G2 SSD (2x 160 GB)
ATI 5830 GPU w/1GB VRAM
15.6" 1920x1080 BrightView Glossy display (matte available for $25 less)
Wireless-N + Bluetooth
6-cell Li-Ion battery + 9-cell 'thin-fit Slice' battery
Total: $1,849.99, after a $450 off coupon. Even without that, though, an equivalent-spec'd MBP is over $2,700, and that's with a significantly worse GPU. But that buys you the Apple logo and better historical reliability - HP is improving but Apple is certainly pretty awesome in that respect.
For me, though, they're not $900 more awesome.
I used to do backup to a USB 2.0 drive that took up to an hour (rsync). Now I use an eSATA drive and usually just sit and wait the 2-3 minutes until completion.
USB 3.0 devices and hardware are appearing, so I don't see why Apple couldn't have included this. I can't blame Intel for this--Apple had 802.11n support YEARS before the standard was officially approved...
While I agree with the majority of your post remember that 90% of consumers don't upgrade anything more than RAM. Us techies on slashdot are the EXCEPTION not the rule. Normal people and businesses almost never upgrade machines beyond RAM unless something breaks.
So why do we all have giant towers when everything most need fits into the space of a mac mini? Only a small group of people really need the big towers.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
OK; my fastest SATA drives will do an average of 80 MB/s across the platter; they peak at 125 MB/s at the outer rim. On SATA, with a PCI-Express SAS card, they actually run at the advertised speeds. Actually, 4 drives at a time will run at those speeds; when I get 6 going at once, I see the average _on all 6 drives_ drop to about 60 MB/s. Which makes me very very very happy with that card, mind you; it blows the Promise TX4 PCI card into little pieces of slow crap.
Those same drives in a USB 2.0 chassis will write all day at ~40 MB/s; you never get the peak speed at the rim, but then, since the USB line is the bottleneck, you don't get the drop at the hub, either. Obviously there isn't much else happening on that USB controller channel, and it's in the southbridge.
So if you're getting a 20x difference between USB 2.0 and eSATA, it's probably more the case that your eSATA connection is on a much better-performing bus device, and/or you've got too much contention for USB. Which doesn't negate eSATA solving your problem, of course.
But on a laptop, typically you're not going to have hub-webs of USB devices, so 2.0 is fair. 3.0/eSATA would be better, but FireWire 800 is nice instead, and all your legacy FireWire 400 and DV gear works with that, too.
Especially given the insides of the MacBook family. They are full; adding any connector would mean asking, "What should we remove?" It's really amazing to look inside one, there's no "gap" where you could fit another feature. It really is like a unibody car design; the case is both structure and enclosure.
Just remember to align your screwdriver with the slightly-angled screws properly, or you'll risk cross-threading and that would be bad.
Now, I recently stuck some last-generation Seagate 750 MB PATA drives in some FireWire enclosures on a dodgy controller on Linux. Those things aren't doing well; about 20 MB/s tops. The controller is probably crap. I'm also pretty sure the PCI Express to PCI bridge on my mainboard is crap, too; so you really don't want to push data through PCI on it. The enclosures have USB2.0 as well, so I really should try that; or one of the other FireWire controllers in the junk-pile.
I suspect crappy PCI bridges are very common, even though it's very hard to find a mainboard without PCI slots.
Intel's naming scheme has been piss-poor for a long time. Some Core2Duos come with virtualization extensions, and some don't. There are differences even within the same model number (ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_virtualization#Intel_Virtualization_Technology_for_x86_.28Intel_VT-x.29 which says "# Pentium Dual-Core E6300, E6500, E6600 and some versions of the E5300 and E5400*" and "# Core 2 Duo E5400, E7600, E8200, E8300, E8400, E8500, E8600 and some versions of the E7400 and E7500 (Wolfdale)")
There's almost no way to correlate performance with processor number. Ghz is also out of the window due to architectural differences. It really makes me long for the days of the 286.
So a year after I buy a new laptop, Apple finally release a new macbook that's approximately equivalent spec. But also charge more than I paid a year ago.
I'd best stop telling people that Apple are price competitive if you want comparative quality components and an out-of-the-box Apple spec machine. They're just not a good buy for the hardware.
It's frustrating, I'm keen to give OSX a go - but no matter how much disposable income I have, there's always something else that's better value for my money.
I've had a very different experience. eSATA barely pushed more data for me with my setup. I think greed has it right--the rest of the hardware probably has quite a bit to do with performance in this arena.
Fn + Arrow Keys does all that -- or at least does on my old G4 powerbook.
I said INSTEAD OF A KEY COMBO.
I use all the editing combinations. Humans have a limited amount of fingers and a limited stretching width. So, yes, one more key when you want to use ctrl+shift+home and stuff like that does tend to make a difference.
About the Intel chip... besides being the only chip that I came to feel confident in, my work is not just hard disk based. I do work (development) related to networking and a decent chip does tend to make a difference.
And yes. The repeated "does tend to make a difference" was on purpose.
Onda Technology Institute
It also weighs more and has lower battery life. I think being substantially more powerful in every dimension more than makes up for that, though.
So why are you telling me? Seriously, are you just insecure about your purchasing decisions and feel the need to defend them even when no one asked? By all means buy the machine that suits your needs best. You don't have to come here, describe the tradeoffs as you see them, tell us which tradeoffs you prefer, then ask permission before you make a purchase. If you like what Dell offers better, from now on feel free to buy it without defending your choice on Slashdot.
I own MBP produced in 2008. The battery has been replaced twice
The plural of anecdote?
Quality and reliability? It's a fucking urban legend.
Hmm, "dremon" performed a study with a sample size of one. How does that compare to Consumer Reports and to my former IT department's studies? Ahh yes, not statistically significant. Sorry to be harsh and all but your crappy luck isn't any reason for someone to ignore actual data.
Read Mac forums; I am far from being alone with these issues.
Or read Dell forums, or Acer forums or forums from every company. Everyone has hardware failures and the people who get burned always gripe about it. That's just the reality of things. People actually interested in making good decisions, however, actually look up studies of short term and long term reliability when making a purchasing decision.
I don't get it, are you are you saying the Acer doesn't have support for multiple displays??
The Acer supports display mirroring, but according to their data sheet, not using the built in display and a second display as independent screens. This might be because of the way they route the video or they may just have driver issues getting it to work reliably (unplugging and sleep from different states to different states is a trial to QA).
The MBP does not have DVI anymore than the Acer has DVI. Displayport => DVI or HDMI => DVI. Same thing.
Well there are some differences but if you don't know about them, they probably do not matter to you so lets skip that.
What video card driver issues are you speaking of?
People doing emulation VirtualBox or VMWare rant about how impossible it is to get these working reliably with the graphics on these machines due to driver issues, especially with Windows 7.
That's not to say I accept your other reasons...
Why do I bother responding to ACs?
Man, once you get used to it, Fn + Arrow keys is the way to go. When I finally moved on from my old Powerbook I sorely missed the functionality of being able to zip around text documents with Vi-like ease using Fn + Arrow or Command + Arrow. Maybe if the Fn key was poorly placed, but I think you'll find if you give it a chance you'll really like it. Some people really like their full size keyboards however... I'm going to ignore your intel hardware qualifiers :)
moox. for a new generation.
Wow, I remember those Tandys were heavy but I didn't realize they were made of iron!
Sorry, 2 cores only, at least the BTO option on the MBP 17" earlier today says "two cores".
Sure, you can write open source software with Visual Studio, but you can also write open source software with Xcode on a Mac.
The OP complained about closed source and immediately mentions Visual Studio. Good luck getting the source code for Visual Studio or Windows. A successful open source troll would deride Visual Studio and Windows for the very same reason they criticize the Mac.
One of the people here at work has had one for about 4months and no one seems to be able to get it to connect to a samba server with read and write privileges.
Ubuntu just works, deal with it. Besides, Unix isn't just code, it's a philosophy. One that Steve Jobs will never understand.
but people also want more choice and don't want screen lock in as well.
Why can't there a be a better mini with at lest 256 / 512 vram (not shared system ram) and a desktop cpu not a higher priced laptop one?
Ghah, my mother just bought a new macbook pro on Saturday. And there's no 1-to-1 replacement since they've bumped the pricing on the new machines.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
I used to have a laptop where I had to use the fn key to access the home, end, pgup and pgdn keys. After much effort in trying to get used to that, I sacrificed other keys to have those available by remapping the x11 keymaps.
Onda Technology Institute
I want to replace my first-gen MBP, It has been a great laptop, the only problem was that I needed to change the battery three times in these years.
Now Im nervous about the built-In battery, how much will take them to change it?. I just hope they're not like those sonys.
desktop CPU's can't fit into the space. let alone allow for passive cooling.
The only time the fans come on is when flash is running.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Indeed many factors are at play, though I can't claim getting 20x difference -- very hard to measure w/o a very controlled test scenario and very detailed analysis.
Another factor may be that my backup method being rsync, there is relatively little writing--the streaming numbers you cite--mostly running through the directory trees to compare file states. This is of course doing a lot of seeking, and while seeking on the drive shouldn't have an effect as it is required in both cases, a seek is a request coming from the host. Could there be an increased latency in doing all the command translation (filesystem to USB to AT), due to one of many factors? If so, this would be an argument for eSATA, or potentially USB 3.0, if the latter provided effective improvements in this area...
Also, as far as cramped space, then USB 3.0 would be favored--replacing the 2.0 slots with the backwards compatible versions, given that chipsets size or additional wiring is more than a negligible space concern.
I do praise Apple for using milled aluminum, in the same way I praise Apple for having brought mp3-harddrives to the masses. Many people think Apple invented these technologies, but that was not the case in either...
Ubuntu doesn't "Just work" and the OS vendor isn't the same as the hardware vendor either.
Given that Apple's been giving away the source to Darwin for free? Not to mention all of the code they contribute to other OSS projects? I'd say that Apple understands the Unix philosophy quite well.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Actually, the i5's in question also support hyperthreading. The only difference is a tiny speed and cache boost in the i7. http://ark.intel.com/Compare.aspx?ids=47341,43560,43544
Also, they should have named the mobile ones m5 and m7 (or i5m and i7m if BMW has a problem with them using M5).
Ubuntu sems to work on my machine, and I don't seem to have any software/hardware interaction issues. Also, is this the same Apple that has draconian development issues on the Ipad?
I'm sure there are some perfectly valid niche uses, but I've always felt that PCMCIA and ExpressCard slots were concerning due to the robustness of the connector (number of insertions) and stress on the surrounding components and the card itself because you've got this big lever sticking out...
Physically, PCMCIA isn't a problem in my experience. For many years I used a Cisco PCMCIA card in a Dell laptop for wireless networking; it worked well and got a lot of use. (The Dell was from about the last generation before wireless got included as part of the standard package.) Not sure what you'd use it for now though.
"Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
Do you even know what the hell Draconian means?
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
I own MBP produced in 2008.
So do I.
The battery has been replaced twice - the last one only worked less than a year.
There are some artifacts on the LCD screen.
DVD recorder does not record dual layer disks.
MagSafe is "repaired" with duck tape; socket plug is very easy to crack when inserting into the tight power socket.
Occasionally it doesn't startup (black screen of death).
There are issues with Atheros wireless card.
I have never seen any of these problems. My (unreplaced) battery health is still over 90%. This machine has had close to daily use for nearly two years. (Well, don't know about the DVD recorder; not been something I've tried a lot.)
What I can say is that I had an HDD failure. Apple replaced it under warranty, but I'm still very glad that I'd made a full backup shortly before. Backups are Good...
Quality and reliability? It's a fucking urban legend.
Read Mac forums; I am far from being alone with these issues.
Never ever anything from Apple.
Sampling across the various laptop owners at work (a somewhat better sample than the Mac forums) I see that there really aren't that many hardware failures; with the exception of my HDD failure, the biggest issue I can remember anyone having was with a warped case, and the failure rate is about the same with high-end Dells. (We get rather a lot of both Macs and Dells as different people have different preferences for what OS to have as native.)
"Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
That Authorized Apple Distributor is a scam, seriously. Take it to just about any other and you'll have it replaced in no time. Maybe even go as far as reporting the place to Apple.
Please disregard any grammatical errors in the above message. I normally perfectly English just well!
Yes, but not because of ventilation issues. To extend the battery life, a small portion of Steve Jobs' ego has been injected into each battery.
I gathered the OP was upset that updates to certain consumer devices are headline news on Slashdot, but a major release of a widely-used IDE is not. I agree with the OP, the discrepancy is not defensible.
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
Finally fast (mlc?) ssd hardware, but all you can do is code for or buy apps on your new Mac.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I wish normal desktop displays had a DPI that high, so I didn't need to make a tradeoff between more text onscreen or less eyestrain.
I was greatly bothered by this too when I got a MBP last year. It made me pay closer attention to how I was typing on my other laptop, a Thinkpad, which does have a beveled edge. I realized that either way, I was placing considerable strain on my wrists, and that the tingling sensations I had been getting for a couple of years (very rarely, mind you, it's not bad) were early-stage carpal tunnel syndrome. With the beveled edge, you just don't notice.
So now, I just put a large wrist pad (filled with plastic pellets, not a hard gel one) in that 3" gap between the edge of the desk and the MBP, and I haven't gotten the tingling since. If I use the MBP (or any computer for that matter) elsewhere, I just try to be careful not to rest my wrists anywhere bad. It took a bit to get used to but now I'm much better off for it.
I'm not saying the MBP was designed to have a sharp edge to make it uncomfortable to give yourself carpal tunnel syndrome, but at least for me, it was a very positive side effect of that design choice.
3. eSATA isn't "sleek" enough for Apple; it needs a second power cable, has a relatively flimsy plug, has hot-plugging/compatibility issues, etc, etc. They'd much rather people use Firewire.
While eSATA doesn't provide power, various storage devices (e.g. 4-disk RAID enclosures) provide eSATA interfaces, but have their own power. I guess you're limiting yourself to single 2.5" hard drives, but this isn't the only application, especially for the "pro" market.
5. Intel is dragging their feet on USB 3.0, which means most computers and peripherals won't see it for at least another year.
HP is shipping USB 3.0 on some models of their competing laptops, and have been for a few months. USB 3.0-capable peripherals have already started shipping.
6. Most people don't use ExpressCards; they'd rather have a slightly larger battery or other features taking up the space.
So, why did Apple ship ExpressCard slots before? My colleague with a MacBook Pro uses an ExpressCard ... to give him eSATA.
Go spec a Macbook Pro baseline model, and an HP Envy 15 (HPs over-expensive, premium line), and just spec both sides up to the cheapest equivalents. Envy 15 ends up $500 cheaper (in either case of MBP with 1440x900 vs HP with 1366x768, or MBP with 1680x1050 vs HP with 1920x1080) . Envy quotes 2 hours on standard battery and 6 hours on the extended battery (but, it is unclear how the benchmarks relate, I haven't seen Macboook Pro make anything near the claimed 9 hours). Dimensions are similar.
However, it seems HP has dropped backlit keyboards for some reason, but they were options on the previous generation Pavillions, including my HP HDX 16, but it wasn't a large cost item ... pity they dropped it.
Anyway, it seems the Apple logo ends up costing about $500.
E-Sata and FW 3200 would be welcome. But USB on a machine touted as 'pro'? Are bubblejet printers, light-up mice, pendrives and those silly USB keyboard vacs pro level equipment now? And no, I'm not being harsh. I've never seen any USB device being used for serious A/V work. Hell, even the writers I know use network storage or firewire drives.
Or, RAID enclosures with eSATA interfaces. Now, considering USB 3.0 is faster than eSATA and FW3200, why would one not use a USB 3.0-connected RAID enclosure? If you're using a new Macbook Pro, you wouldn't have the option of eSATA or USB 3.0, so you would have to go for the more expensive and slower Firewire option, or even more expensive NAS.
Yep... but I imagine close to 90% of consumers never upgrade displays either. Everyone I see in a small business/office environment, or even the typical "casual user" at home just uses whichever LCD display was bundled with their new PC until they upgrade machines. They didn't view their mini-tower as offering them an "advantage" because they could pick from many different monitor choices, or because they could upgrade to a larger screen after they owned it a while.
Therefore, the iMac works for these folks just fine. (And frankly, the recent iMacs have included some beautiful displays - other than those manufacturing glitches they had with some of the 27" models. Assuming you have one that's working properly, I wouldn't think you'd be disappointed with it, display-wise.)
www.dualit.com
The only info a nerd needs. I have a 240V one for Europe, and a 110V for the US.
"There is nothing nice about Steve Jobs and nothing evil about Bill Gates." - Chuck Peddle
It must be "Talk Like a Pirate Day".
My wife owns a MBP produced in 2006 (very first generation with *the whine*), battery replaced twice as well, not doing too well with the last one.
I also own a MBP produced in 2008, first generation unibody, original battery has (check) 227 cycles, 97% health. I think it's the heat. The 2006 MBP is hot as hell.
Disclaimer: I bought the i7 version of the 17".
A friend was trying to decide between the i5 and i7 version of the 15", and GeekBench seems to show ~13% improvement, which he figured is worth the $200.
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
I did, but I was making two points in one post. I'll number them next time for your comfort. :)
Yes, I know what it means, although "narrow" might have been better.
www.dualit.com
Absolutely. I was, thankfully, introduced to dualit toasters by my university who installed them in halls of residence. In the 15 years that have passed since, I've never found another toaster to equal them. They make the only toaster I've ever found that doesn't assume it knows how to make toast better than you do.
6. Most people don't use ExpressCards; they'd rather have a slightly larger battery or other features taking up the space.
So, why did Apple ship ExpressCard slots before? My colleague with a MacBook Pro uses an ExpressCard ... to give him eSATA.
When Apple sells a feature, it is "da feature to die for". When Apple doesn't sell the feature - "who wants to use that feature anyway".
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.