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Assange Secret Swedish Police Report Leaked

letsurock writes "The 68-page confidential report prepared by Swedish police got leaked which tells the police version on the alleged sexual misconduct by the Julian assange. The Swedish report traces events over a four-day period in August this year when 39-year-old Assange had what he has described as consensual sexual relationships with two Swedish women."

840 comments

  1. Yo dawg, I heard by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Funny

    You know what, actually, after writing the title, I can't bring myself to do this. You all deserve better.

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    1. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Toe,+The · · Score: 2, Funny

      Mmmmm, "consensual sexual relationships with two Swedish women." I mean, damn... Slashdot isn't usually that provocative. :P

    2. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Thud457 · · Score: 0

      Assange is a millionaire ?

      oh, wait, reading comprehension -- at different times...

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    3. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by thrillseeker · · Score: 1

      if only someone would leak all the slashdotter's sexual exploits ...




      (crickets)

    4. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when is he a "the"?!

    5. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by berbo · · Score: 1

      consensual sexual relationships with two Swedish women.

      The British authorities want to interrogate him: "What's it like?".

    6. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      I tried that once. Nobody trusted my reports.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    7. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 0, Troll

      I guess that Slashdot, Taco, and letsurock have forgotten that when the women says stop and the man doesn't, it is rape, even here in the U.S.

    8. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      What you forgot was that if the woman is underage, it is rape even here in the U.S.

      And that was exactly as relevant to this discussion as your comment, seeing as neither of them happened.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    9. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
      The thing is, even if convicted of rape, Sweden's penalty is .... a $600 fine. (or possibly $1200 for both). No jail time. Sweden, interpol, England, they're spending thousands of dollars and man hours for a $600 fine.

      Now, Sweden needs to rethink their rape laws. They were designed for a time when "rape" meant not paying a hooker. Sex tourists like Julian Assange visit on "rape trips", which are exactly what they sound like. It's time for Sweden to recognize that women aren't just prostitutes. Modernize your rape laws!!!!

    10. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "In 2008, [...] was sentenced to two years in prison for raping an 18-year-old woman during a tour, [...]"
      http://washingtonexaminer.com/news/world/2010/12/assange-rape-case-spotlights-swedens-liberal-laws

    11. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by DrVomact · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I guess that Slashdot, Taco, and letsurock have forgotten that when the women says stop and the man doesn't, it is rape, even here in the U.S.

      I don't follow. Are you actually saying that because they make or permit posting on the Assange affair, they are pro-rape?

      As for "when the women (sic) says stop"...well, it's not quite that simple, is it? Let's pretend we're all adults here. Some women like to play games of "let's pretend", sometimes it's literally too late to stop, sometimes signals are simply not understood. I agree that, ideally, if either sexual partner wishes to terminate the activities, they should be forthwith terminated (er, the activities, I mean). And in an ideal world, that would always happen.

      Legally, such "rapes" are very difficult to prosecute in any country that has a sensible code of laws. If it is clear that the woman willingly began to have sex with someone, and she alleges that she cried "stop" at some point (perhaps because her partner was doing something she didn't like), unless the partner admits that this happened—that he heard, and did not stop—then this will be a case where the only two witnesses to the alleged crime contradict each other. If there is evidence of physical injury, that is indeed another matter.

      There is a simple way to avoid these complications: don't go to bed with people you don't know. Take note, Mr. Assange.

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    12. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 0, Troll

      The summary implies that Assange couldn't be guilty because they women initially consented, disregarding the fact that with one, he refused to stop and with the other, he waited until she was asleep and did something to which she did not consent.

    13. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please do not speak of things you obviously do not have a clue about.. If you are convicted of rape in Sweden you get to spend 2-10 years in jail, depending on the age of the victim and the amount of violence that was used.

    14. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 3, Informative
      Maybe you should try RTFA. According to TFA:

      Both women say that Assange first agreed to use a condom and then refused, in the first instance by continuing with sex after the condom broke, and in the second by having sex without using a condom with a woman who was asleep, the Times reports.

      Now, STFU until you know what you are talking about.

    15. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2

      It's quite simple.

      Unless they tell you before hand and negotiate an alternate word for "no" (like say... watermelon), then no means no.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    16. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      If my girlfriend wakes me up with a blowjob is that rape?
      I'm unconscious when she starts, she doesn't ask my permission.
      yet still the answer is : hell no.

      If my girlfriend and I are having sex and I come just before her then the sensation if she keeps going can be overwhelming or even painful.
      If I utter "wait, stop" but she's a bit too far gone and close to the edge herself to stop and keeps going that doesn't make it rape.
      It's somewhat rude but it would be absurd to say I was being raped in that scenario.

      It says something about the warped view people have on these issues that you have to swap it around male-female in order for anyone to even consider the matter sanely.

    17. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 0

      And what does that have to do with what actually happened?

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    18. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      disregarding the fact...

      No one here knows what the "facts" are. No one, except Assange and the women ever will.

    19. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Unequivocal · · Score: 1

      This is just about you and her having a pre-existing agreement about this, whether spoken or implied. If I take a nap in the park and wake up with some bum giving me a hummer, it's definitely rape.

    20. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by DrVomact · · Score: 4, Informative

      The summary implies that Assange couldn't be guilty because they women initially consented, disregarding the fact that with one, he refused to stop and with the other, he waited until she was asleep and did something to which she did not consent.

      The summary implies no such thing. The summary says:

      The 68-page confidential report prepared by Swedish police got leaked which tells the police version on the alleged sexual misconduct by the Julian assange. The Swedish report traces events over a four-day period in August this year when 39-year-old Assange had what he has described as consensual sexual relationships with two Swedish women."

      This is an impartial statement of events. The police report was leaked. Presumably (I must presume, as no one has posted a link to the actual report.), it contains allegations on which the prosecutor's indictment was based. The summary then proceeds to state Mr. Assange's version of events. It endorses neither the police report, nor Mr. Assange's denials.

      You read with insufficient care.

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    21. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Since they’d already been having sex and sleeping together, this is more like HungryHobo’s hypothetical girlfriend situation than the hypothetical hungry hobo situation you described.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    22. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you, Mr. Hobo. Were it still permitted to make jokes on sexual matters, I would be tempted to say that if the woman did not wake up, then Mr. Assange is...rather quick. But of course, one is no longer permitted to joke. So I did not write this.

    23. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by BeanThere · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is it basically their word against his, or has he also admitted that that's what happened? Far as I can tell, he's denied their version of events. It's not rape if they're just making it up.

      "... and in the second by having sex without using a condom with a woman who was asleep"

      I'll refrain from making silly jokes like 'slashdot forumites probably wouldn't understand this', but do you realize that unless she's extremely heavily under the influence of narcotics, it's all but impossible to have sex with a woman who is asleep without pretty much waking her up completely in the process? (And pretty much on first penetration, because if she's asleep she won't be dilated or wet either, so you'd have to use a sizable amount of force.) Story sounds a bit fishy to me. Add to that they seemed perfectly happy and then only seemed to decide later it was 'rape', after they found out he was cheating.

    24. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by feepness · · Score: 1

      I guess that Slashdot, Taco, and letsurock have forgotten that when the women says stop and the man doesn't, it is rape, even here in the U.S.

      And you forget, that even here in the US, people are innocent until proven guilty.

      Well, we give lip service to that at least.

    25. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by HungryHobo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      the finer points however get a little more complex.
      for example in practice:

      "no we shouldn't!" means "yes"
      "no we can't!" means "yes but shhhhh"
      and even a shriek of "ACK! NO! eeee!" confusingly often means "kiss there again!"
      "No" while grabbing your head and pulling it a little to the left or right can simply mean "no, a little to the left/right"
      "No" while you're slowing down can mean "speed up" or if uttered while speeding up can mean "slow down"
      "Nooo, damnit!" while doing something acrobatic can mean "Ah, my back, I've pulled something.... but don't stop" depending on physical actions

      Meanwhile without any verbal "no" simply pushing you away or grabbing a hand with the appropriate expression can mean very clearly "no".

    26. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      If you do any of those, then you are liable for arrest, fines, losing your job.
      It happens every day.

      What you are saying went out of style in the 80's if not the 70's. Anyone with a decent job and assets (hell, even a promising future) is being an idiot and taking a huge gamble if they behave like this.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    27. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 2

      Under the law as written, yes it is rape.

      But, the part you are missing is this: Assange could and should have stopped when the condom broke and the woman asked him to stop. And, Assange should not have had unprotected sex with a sleeping woman after she had already told him she did not want to have unprotected sex with him.

    28. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by eli867 · · Score: 1

      Having sex with someone while they're asleep is rape. Doing so without a condom after previously agreeing to use a condom during sex just makes it that much worse.

    29. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 1

      She had already stated she did not want to have unprotected sex with him. That nullifies your argument. If HungryHobo had told his girlfriend not to give him a blowjob while he was asleep and she did so, then it would be like the situation he describes, but that is not what he said.

      She had already told him she did not want to do what he did.

    30. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 1

      And you know what actually happened how? Were you there, or are you just taking Assange's self-serving word against the word of two different women?

    31. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If two (or more) people come to an agreement regarding conditional consent beforehand (e.g. "yes with a condom") and the condition is broken, then regardless of how in the moment the other person is they need to stop immediately.

    32. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Their accounts...began consensually, but became non-consensual when he persisted"

      Did you do as you said to do? That is, the STFU until you RTFA?

    33. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      Did she? Did he anyway? Is this all just a made-up allegation to get Assange into Sweden so they can extradite him to the US, since this ridiculous he-said-she-said case is based on no evidence whatsoever?

      According to all of the actual factual evidence that we do have, the women only decided it was rape after they learned about each other. Discovering that your man has another woman on the side doesn’t make what he did last night “rape”.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    34. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by HungryHobo · · Score: 2

      out of fashion?
      The point is that what someone is doing at the time makes all the difference.

      Your approach sounds lovely and clear on paper until you try to apply it to real life with real people.
      If all those situations are rape simply because someone said "no" at some point with no regard to context or what they were doing at the time then it would mean my girlfriend has raped me many times, which is absurd.

      a wail of "no" when you're stopping often does mean "no, keep going", a simply "no" does not make it rape if the other persons actions at the time provide different context.

      and far more importantly it can be rape without "no" ever being uttered if the person clearly in any way expresses that they don't want to have sex.

    35. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      man... de nial isn't just a river in egypt.

      if the lady feels bad afterwards, it goes like this.

      He raped me.

      No I didn't .

      Did she say "no""

      uh.. yes but she "meant" yes.
      No really, you don't understand...
      She was asking for it.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    36. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 0

      In order for the summary to be "an impartial statement of events", it would have to include something to the effect that one woman claims she told him to stop when the condom broke and he did not and the woman claims he had unprotected sex with her while she slept after stating she did not want to have unprotected sex.

      The summary implies that the entirety of both acts were consensual when the claims are that the acts started off consensual and that they became non-consensual when the Assange did things the women did not want to do.

    37. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And you know what actually happened how?

      Well, let’s see. What we know:

      Guy has consensual sex with woman A.
      Guy has consensual sex with woman B.
      Time passes, during which one/both women continue seeing Guy.
      Woman A and woman B learn Guy has been fucking both of them.
      Woman A and woman B both come up with stories about how they told him to stop, no not without a condom, was asleep, etc. how he “raped” them both.
      What a coincidence, obviously we should believe them over anything Guy has to say.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    38. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      If my scenario as written is rape then there is something very very wrong with the legislation as written.

      Mainly I just detest the simplistic statements which sound great on paper but which are absurd in real life.

      Assange's case I'm going to sit back and watch, he sounds like a creep either way.

    39. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... if she's asleep she won't be dilated or wet either, so you'd have to use a sizable amount of force ... Story sounds a bit fishy to me

      These jokes just write themselves ...

    40. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      Right so lets swap it around.

      if the guy feels bad afterwards, it goes like this.

      She raped me.

      No I didn't .

      Did he say "no"
      uh.. yes but he meant "no, a little to the left".
      No really, you don't understand...
      he was asking for it and enthusiastic from start to finish.

      see the absurdity yet?

    41. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 0

      It is the word of two against the word of one. What makes his word worth more than theirs?

      Dilated? Really? Do you know even the first thing about female anatomy? As for "wetness", that occurs with mild stimulation in most women. A woman does not have to be awake, or even willing, to become wet.

      Even "fishy" sounding stories need to be investigated. Especially when it is the word of two ordinary women against that of an internationally famous man.

      It seems both you and Assange believe this should not even be investigated and he should not be questioned simply because he is Julian Assange of Wikileaks and they are just women.

    42. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      The summary implies that the entirety of both acts were consensual

      No, the summary says that Assange claimed that. You’re reading your own bias into it if you think that means anything other than exactly that: he claimed that.

      The summary also called it “alleged sexual misconduct”, which tells us that the women claimed it was not consensual. Both parties’ claims were addressed.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    43. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Thinboy00 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is the word of two against the word of one. What makes his word worth more than theirs?

      Innocent until proven guilty.

      --
      $ make available
    44. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      I see the absurdity. I have lived the bias over my lifetime.

      But I'm talking reality here.

      Hell, I had a friend two years ago that went to new orleans. Had a three way with a girl and her boy friend.
      She didn't even say no. But afterwards, she felt bad, had proof she'd had a drink and so wasn't culpable.

      He spent several thousand dollars in legal fees, lost a very promising job, and was at risk of going to jail for a while.
      The boyfriend wasn't even charged.

      It woke my eyes up to the danger of sleeping with women you meet at a bar in New Orleans.

      ---

      Things are very slowly changing for guys. The fact they send female teachers to jail now too is a major change. I, myself, would have love to have been abused by Mrs Havey back in 9th grade. Back then the guy teacher would be ruined and the girl would be viewed as taken advantage of while the female teacher would at worst change schools and the boys would be viewed as lucky studs.

      It is possible to physically abuse male spouses these days (women are actually very violent too and it's an under reported crime).

      It's possible for females to sexually harass men.

      I think rape is rare but, especially with sex drugs, it's possible society may shift around there. Generally, the male is stronger- so I imagine it would have to be a weak or helpless male to get a successful conviction.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    45. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 1

      And, what, exactly, prevents him from being extradited to the U.S. from the U.K.?

      Or, the women only decided to report the rapes after learning of another victim to stand with against an internationally known man with many supporters.

      Tell me, if it were not Assange, but someone you did not support, would you feel the same way?

    46. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 0, Troll

      In other words, no, you do not know what happened. Rather, you are assuming that Assange, against all evidence to the contrary, is a saint who never would, nay could, do such a thing and as such the claims should not be investigated, at all, ever.

    47. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 2

      You don’t understand how davev2.0 interprets that (I do, I’ve had arguments with him previously). To him, that means that until you’ve proven that these women are lying, you have to assume that they’re innocent (and lock up Assange just to be on the safe side).

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    48. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nobody is saying that Julian shouldn't be questioned. We are saying, the facts, as outlined in the police report, show a particular pattern of behavior from the women in question. That pattern, hanging out with the guy for days afterward, throwing a party for him, and so on, do not indicate that the women felt that any sort of crime had taken place until they met each other and determined that Julian was sleeping with them both. Actually, several people HAVE said that Julian does not need to be questioned. That includes the original prosecutor. The fellow prosecuting now was also instrumental in getting Sweden's rape laws changed to their current incarnation. Coincidence? Possibly.

      I hear two things being said, quite clearly. One: no one is guilty until PROVEN innocent. Two: the women did not behave like rape victims, they behaved like jilted lovers.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    49. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spun · · Score: 1

      I meant proven guilty...

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    50. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 1

      Sex without consent is rape.

      Consider: You would not consider it rape if your girlfriend woke you up with a blowjob, but would you consider rape if your male roommate did so? Or, a male acquaintance did so after allowing him to stay over after a party?
      How about if your girlfriend woke you up by putting on a strap-on and fucking you in the ass with it?

      Ask your girlfriend if she would consider it rape if she said "Only protected sex" and, while she was asleep, you started having unprotected sex with her.

    51. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 0

      It states what Assange claims but does not state what the claims are against him. Both are equally known so why not state both?

    52. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by BeanThere · · Score: 1

      Yeah, my interpretation too; davev's position seems to be that the woman is always automatically telling the truth, the man always automatically lying, and that Julian is guilty until proven innocent.

      I may have used the incorrect term on 'dilation' - I'm not sure what the correct term is, but the term is irrelevant, I am right, a woman's vag is by default far too constricted for anything thicker than a pencil to enter without either a lot of force or lubrication, and sexual stimulation causes it to open wider. (So either davev doesn't have the first clue about this, or his penis is pencil-thin) ... I've been sleeping with women regularly for sixteen years and trust me, it's basically impossible to have non-forced sex with a woman unless she is awake.

    53. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 1

      Guilt can not be proven without investigation and, if warranted, trial. It is up to first the prosecutor and then the court to determine if the word of the two is worth more than the word of the one.

      Or, do you argue that the presumption of innocence precludes investigation and trial?

    54. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Denihil · · Score: 1

      linux dual boots don't count

      --
      WÌÌfÍ--ÍSÌÒÍ...Í...ÌHÌÍfÍÍÍ--ÍÍÍ
    55. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      Sure you can replace "you meet at a bar in New Orleans." with "who you don't explicitly trust" and it becomes even better advice.

      If someone gets mad at you and sets out to screw you over the lack of any uttering of "no" matters not at all unless you record all your sexual encounters as your partner can claim whatever they want.

      My problem is that simplifying it down saying that if someone says "no" to pack up and go home ignores real issues, I'm not being facetious when I say that "no" really, genuinely can have different meanings in context.
      (packing up and going home might even lead to your partner getting mad at you and cause more problems.)

      In the context of my girlfriend saying "no" as I go to get out of bed and her pulling me back down it really genuinely can mean "no, don't go, I want to have more sex".

    56. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      the women only decided to invent stories about rape after learning of the other woman he’d been fucking to join up for revenge and publicity with against an internationally known fugitive with many enemies.

      FTFY.

      Tell me, if it were not Assange, but someone you did not support, would you feel the same way?

      I don’t support Assange. I think he’s an ass, and I think it’s clear that his website is mainly just interested in publishing things that make the US look bad.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    57. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spun · · Score: 2

      Assange tried to sidestep the investigation by turning himself in to Scotland Yard?!? You have an interesting definition of 'sidestep.' And to repeat, NO ONE is opposing investigation! Why do you keep claiming your opponents in this debate are opposing investigation?

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    58. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by DrVomact · · Score: 5, Informative

      Please do not speak of things you obviously do not have a clue about.. If you are convicted of rape in Sweden you get to spend 2-10 years in jail, depending on the age of the victim and the amount of violence that was used.

      Maybe so, but the link given by A.C. leads to the most informative article about the Assange Affair that I have seen.

      I here excerpt my favorite parts:

      One of the women said in her statement to police that she was obsessed with meeting the tall, wiry man she had come to see as a hero of free speech — "interesting, brave and admirable."

      For two weeks after seeing an Assange TV interview, the 27-year-old woman devoured news reports about him. Then one night, she Googled his name and learned he was giving a lecture in Sweden on Aug. 14.

      The woman contacted the organizers and offered to do chores if she were allowed to attend. She turned up in a bright pink sweater and sat in the front row — looking out of place amid a sea of journalists in somber suits. The ice was broken when she agreed to buy a cable for Assange's computer.

      I like a woman who knows what she wants; note the carefully orchestrated campaign, the subtlety of execution. She bought him a cable for his computer Surely, that can only spell Geek Love! How could poor Julian resist?

      She was invited to a post-lecture dinner, she said, and seated next to Assange. They flirted, she told police: At one point Assange hand-fed her cheese and bread. The police report says she found it "flattering."

      Bleah. Disgusting. How can people do that in public? Did he spoon-feed her saccharine also?

      She and Assange went to the movies, where she said they kissed. Two days later she brought him home.

      But by then, she told police, "the passion and excitement had disappeared."

      On the train ride to her place, she said, Assange logged on to his computer and started reading about himself on Twitter. "He paid more attention to the computer than to her," the report said.

      Disaster! A clear mismatch, as she was not googling on her own laptop.

      They got to her apartment at midnight — and what happened next "felt very dull and boring," she told police. She later alleged, according to a British lawyer, that Assange pinned her down and refused to wear a condom.

      The bold type in the last paragraph was added by your humble editor. I think we have here the nub of the matter, so to speak. But of course, we must also consider the woman behind Door Number 2:

      The 31-year-old, a feminist scholar who was working for the organization that hosted Assange's Aug. 14 lecture, let him use her apartment while she was away on a trip. But she returned early, on the eve of his lecture, and the two agreed he could stay.

      That night, they went out for dinner, returned to her place for tea, and, she said, became intimate. Later, in the middle of the night, she claimed in the police report, Assange sexually molested her. In a London court Tuesday, a lawyer accused Assange of having unprotected sex with the woman while she was asleep.

      Afterward, he stayed in the apartment for nearly a week.

      Again, bold type provided by yours truly. I can only guess what activities are covered by "became intimate", and the sex-while-asleep bit requires some context and clarification. However, it seems odd that the feminist scholar let him stay in her apartment for a week after an act that she now classifies as "rape".

      Ah, but here comes the train-wreck:

      During that time, the first woman tried unsuccessfully to reach Assange and, on Aug. 20, tracked down the apartment where he was staying. The two women got to talking.

      After swapping Assange stories, they jointly contacted police — and filed rape complaints.

      Mr. Assange, you are so doomed.

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    59. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 0

      Does the report say that, or are you making an assumption? I see nothing in the article that states that, nor have I been able to find a copy of the report.

      Or, they behaved like average women going up against an internationally know and quite powerful man, meaning that each did not feel they could prevail until they learned of the other, knowing that they would have to contend with people like you?

    60. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      I'd probably have a different view with regards to my roomate/acquaintance if we'd had sex the night before and gone to sleep together.

      As for the strap on how I reacted upon waking up would probably be the big decider there, if I went along with it or get into it then she'd be good.

    61. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spun · · Score: 2

      Just to be clear, in the transcripts of Slashdotter's sexual exploits, when you read something along the lines of [REDACTED] kissed [REDACTED] on the [REDACTED], what that actually means is something like JOE SLASHDOT kissed HIS GRANDMA on the CHEEK.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    62. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by russotto · · Score: 2

      And you know what actually happened how? Were you there, or are you just taking Assange's self-serving word against the word of two different women?

      Two different women with a chance to co-ordinate their stories.

    63. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spun · · Score: 1

      Is, uh,...Is that Swedish girl a goer, eh? Know whatahmean, know whatahmean, nudge nudge, know whatahmean, say no more?

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    64. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by DrVomact · · Score: 0

      I take it back: you did not read "with insufficient care". You can't read.

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    65. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yuoo knoo vhet, ectooelly, effter vreeting zee teetle-a, I cun't breeng myselff tu du thees. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Yuoo ell deserfe-a better. Hurty flurty schnipp schnipp!
      Essunge-a Secret Svedeesh Puleece-a Repurt Leeked. Bork. Bork. Bork.

    66. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spun · · Score: 5, Informative

      The report says that. Follow the timeline. Assange meets woman A, who arranged a party for him and put him up. They have sex. They hang out for days. She arranges another party. He meets woman B, who practically stalks him. They have sex. They go out for breakfast the next morning. Women A and B meet, compare notes. They realize he had condomless sex with both of them. They want him to get tested for HIV. He refuses. They both go to the police. The original prosecutor drops the charges, says there is no case. Months later, a new prosecutor (who just so happens to be instrumental in pushing the new Swedish anti-rape laws) convinces the women to reopen the case.

      These facts have been reported in the UK Guardian and many, many other places.

      And another fun fact, Woman A has posted an essay on her blog about using the legal system to extract revenge on men who have wronged a woman romantically.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    67. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Hope+Thelps · · Score: 1

      The summary implies that Assange couldn't be guilty because they women initially consented, disregarding the fact that with one, he refused to stop and with the other, he waited until she was asleep and did something to which she did not consent.

      No. It doesn't imply that, it doesn't disregard any facts and, at this stage, the accusations have not been established to be factual.

      All the summary does, after linking to detailed accusations against him, is to note that HIS account is that the sex was consensual.

      There are at least two versions of events. One is that he raped them (because they withdrew consent). The other is that he didn't (because it was consensual throughout). In time, e.g. at trial, futher nuances may ermege. However, right now it is entirely appropriate to give both halves of the picture - 1. hey, here's the report by the police outlining the accusations and 2. bear in mind, he denies it.

      --
      To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem. ~ h2g2
    68. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      the claims should not be investigated, at all, ever.

      Have they any evidence? Without even a shred of evidence they shouldn’t even be allowed to drag him into court.

      Do an investigation by all means, but it doesn’t necessitate Assange’s presence.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    69. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 1

      You don't support Assange, yet here you are defending him and stating he should not even be investigated.

    70. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      The claim against him was that he committed “alleged sexual misconduct”. Can you not read?

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    71. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, we're saying people need to be very careful before making rape accusations. These accusations are serious, which is why we must always be cautious not to hit an innocent person with them. There are inconsistencies in this case, and light should be shed on these before calling Assange (or anyone else) a rapist.

    72. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      Whoops, where’d you come from? I thought I was replying to davev2.0 again. Disregard...

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    73. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 0

      If he was not trying to sidestep investigation, then why did he leave the country and refuse to return for questioning?

      I claim they are opposing investigation because they are opposing investigation. That is what this is all about, investigating the claims and all I see here is a bunch of people complaining about how badly Assange is being treated by being made to go back to face questioning and investigation

    74. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Cederic · · Score: 1

      The problem is that although you are entirely correct, sadly the legal situation is that 'no' makes it rape, no matter how much her body is begging 'yes' at the time, including using her hands to hold you inside while thrusting her tongue deep into your mouth.

      Just don't ask how she managed to say 'no' at that point..

    75. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      Ironic, isn’t it. And I don’t think they shouldn’t investigate, but I’m also not convinced that they need to question Assange. They already know what his version of the story is.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    76. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 1
      And, in this case, the woman is claiming that she agreed to sex with a condom and after she was asleep, he had sex with her without a condom, something she did not agree to and reacted badly to upon waking.

      The claim is as follows:

      She stated she did not want to have unprotected sex. They had protected sex. After she went to sleep, he had unprotected sex with her even though she had already stated she did not want to do that.

      It is irrelevant if she agreed to protected sex before hand because she specifically did not agree to unprotected sex. Sex without consent, especially after consent is denied, is rape.

    77. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 0

      But, they did not co-ordinate their stories. There stories are very different as to what took place with each. But, together their stories support each other's claim. In order for their stories to be co-ordinated, both would have the same story, rather than different stories that show the same pattern of behavior and disregard for the rights and wishes of others.

      That is why it needs to be investigated and he needs to be questioned.

    78. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Tiger4 · · Score: 2

      The story might be 100% bogus. But it is still up to the Jury to decide how bogus. Or whatever passes for a Jury in Sweden.

      All you need to make out charges is that the accusation be plausible and have some degree of support. OK, you have two complaining witnesses that have made sworn statements. Unless you have some directly contravening evidence or statement from them, that would be enough to get you hauled into court anywhere in the US or Britain.

      Now it is up the prosecutors to prove (to the Swedish standard of proof) that the accusation is true. Seems difficult to me, given it IS a fishy story, but I wasn't there.

      --
      Behold, this dreamer cometh. Come now, and let us slay him... and we shall see what will become of his dreams.
    79. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 2

      Yet, you state he should not be returned to be questioned, so how can there be an investigation?

      The evidence is their word. His defense is his word. Who knows what other evidence there is? Perhaps they have the broken condom with his and her DNA.

    80. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 2

      But, they did not co-ordinate their stories... In order for their stories to be co-ordinated, both would have the same story

      You don’t seem to know what the word co-ordinate means.

      That is why it needs to be investigated and he needs to be questioned.

      So that he can deny it? Again?

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    81. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 1

      Please provide a link to the leaked police report that states what you have stated above.

    82. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      And, Assange should not have had unprotected sex with a sleeping woman after she had already told him she did not want to have unprotected sex with him.

      How did she not consent to sex with him, exactly? She slept through it? If so, how did she even know for certain it occurred? If she woke, told him to stop and he didn't, why didn't she go straight to the police or call them immediately? Why was it only after the other woman was involved that it became criminal?

      It seems to me that he woke her with sexual assertions, while they were sleeping in the same bed and having already otherwise been within a sexual relationship, and she went along with it.

      Unless you're aware of something else, this is really the only scenario that could even be close to plausible.

    83. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 0

      The accusations have been made and the summary only states Assange's side, leaving the claims against him a murky "sexual misconduct".

    84. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think some things are odd in this case. The women's behavior after the case, for one. This should be investigated first, before accusing someone of rape. Rape is too serious a crime, even being a suspect can make the public believe you're guilty. You can lose your job or be kicked out of your appartment if you're merely suspected of rape!
      The victims need to get their stories first. I'm not saying we should be 100% sure they're telling the truth before we question the suspect, only that the very odd and inconsistent stuff must be ruled out first.

      You do not stay nice and friendly to someone you feel committed a serious crime against you. This makes no sense. This odd behavior should be explained first, and then Assange should be officially investigated.

    85. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Tiger4 · · Score: 1

      It isn't two against one. At least it shouldn't be. This is two separate incidents, unrelated except the Assange was involved in both. Treating it as if the two women are related plays into the anti-Assange conspiracy theory. If they are working together, the only reason would be to bring down Assange. If they are independent (and truthful), it shows Assange has (or may have) a pattern of sexual misbehavior.

      --
      Behold, this dreamer cometh. Come now, and let us slay him... and we shall see what will become of his dreams.
    86. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 0

      No, it is not ironic. But, it does show an inconsistency in your beliefs and actions which throws doubt on your veracity in regards to both.

      So, when someone is accused of a crime and he says "I didn't do it", all questioning should stop and the suspects word should be considered the unvarnished truth?

    87. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      I agree. I think in a standing relationship with a girlfriend, you would be able to argue a pattern of behavior with "no" essentially being understood. You can't argue that with a new girl tho.

      But, the other situation also happens where you are in a cold period, she says no and means it, you misread and she feels like you raped her.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    88. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      If you do any of those, then you are liable for arrest, fines, losing your job.
      It happens every day.

      What you are saying went out of style in the 80's if not the 70's. Anyone with a decent job and assets (hell, even a promising future) is being an idiot and taking a huge gamble if they behave like this.

      Sort of yes, sort of no. Remember, males are phallically inclined by eons of genetics. This transcends species, even. We're the assertive ones trying to, well, stick things into places. The female's role is to either permit or deny such activities. I do understand that our culture has changed a bit, but I think the anatomy is largely the same. I'd be highly, highly surprised if we reached a point where men and women never ever again played games of pursuit.

    89. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 1

      Yes. And, so the investigators can try to find a hole in either party's story. That is how investigations work and how one can find lies and distortions, by repeated questioning and looking for inconsistency in the tellings and re-tellings.

    90. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spun · · Score: 2

      There is a link to the UK Guardian right in the summary. Are you saying the Guardian is lying about the contents of the report?

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    91. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by ciaran.mchale · · Score: 1

      And another fun fact, Woman A has posted an essay on her blog about using the legal system to extract revenge on men who have wronged a woman romantically.

      That particular "fun fact" is incorrect. Woman A's blog article did not state anything at all about using the legal system.

    92. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      And if you, davev2.0, have in fact stopped beating your wife, why won't you fly to Sweden to answer questions from Swedish police about accusations that you beat your wife in Sweden once?

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    93. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      The evidence is their word. His defense is his word.

      They already have it.

      Who knows what other evidence there is? Perhaps they have the broken condom with his and her DNA.

      Oh, don’t make me laugh. Now you’re just making stuff up out of thin air...

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    94. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 1

      The claim is that she agreed to protected sex after denying him unprotected sex. Then, he engaged in unprotected sex with her while she slept. It is not that she said no to all sex, but rather, she stated she would not have unprotected sex with him and then he engaged in unprotected sex with her while she was unconscious.

      While one can only speculate, the fact that he is an internationally famous person and that she originally agreed to protected sex makes prosecution unlikely. The fact that another woman made a claim that he engaged in unprotected sex with her against her consent bolsters her story. The story of one bolsters the story of the other by showing a pattern of conduct by Assange, to whit having protected sex with a woman then having unprotected sex with said woman against her will.

    95. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by dreampod · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He stayed in the country for the police to interview but they refused. Then after a cursory meeting they told him he could leave the country which he did. The next day a prosecutor in a different part of the country reinstated and increased the charges. While in the UK he offered to meet with the police through teleconferencing, meeting at their embassy, or by telephone but was refused and they insisted on his returning to the country (at his own expense) to be questioned. Additionally while refusing to inform Assange's lawyer of what charges were being investigated (in violation of international law) they were selectively leaking information to the press (which is highly ironic, but also wrong).

      While he may have commited a crime of a sexual nature, the prosecutor has been acting in bad faith from the beginning and unwilling to make reasonable accomodations.

    96. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spun · · Score: 1

      Well, it was in Swedish, so I ran it through Google translate, and that is how it looked to me, but who knows? Machine translation still sucks.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    97. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by davev2.0 · · Score: 1

      Two women have come in and claimed that Assange had unprotected sex with them after they only agreed to protected sex; one via refusing to stop after a condom broke, the other by unprotected penetration while she was sleeping.

      Individually, the stories are weak, but taken together, they show a pattern of behavior.

    98. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by kaptink · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Given the behaviour of the girls after the alledged rape, ie one throwing a party for him. And the fact they are both avid feminist activitists, my guess is they are both full of it. But its one of those things that can never be proved either way. Both girls were only very pissed off when they discovered each other and only then did they cry fowl. Now they are nowhere to be herd or seen except for the two simultanious police reports they filed at the time. No evidence. Just the words of two scorned women against Julian. And hell have no fury like two scorned women. No one will ever know for sure except for the three of them.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who cannot, sue.
    99. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by jgtg32a · · Score: 1

      Because he asked if he could leave the country and they said yes, when they said come back we want to have another chat he asked can I go to the embassy they said no, will I get reimbursed for my ticket they said no.

      The only question that I have is did they tell him that they may want to have another chat, and while he is allowed to leave the country you'll need to come back if we need to have another chat?

    100. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by vux984 · · Score: 1

      That is how investigations work and how one can find lies and distortions, by repeated questioning and looking for inconsistency in the tellings and re-tellings.

      Precisely. So he very likely will be advised by his lawyers to say nothing.

      If you don't say anything, there is nothing gained from repeated questioning, and no inconsistences in the tellings and re-tellings. Even if you are completely innocent you can get confused, mis-speak, and get tripped up and it doesn't do your case any good.

      Rule number one when dealing with police: keep your mouth shut.

    101. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And another fun fact, Woman A has posted an essay on her blog about using the legal system to extract revenge on men who have wronged a woman romantically.

      If you had actually read the blog post you'd know that using the legal system isn't mentioned, neither is it about revenge on man for romantically wronging a woman, it's about revenge in general.
      She didn't write the text herself either. It's a translation of this article to Swedish.

    102. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And, so the investigators can try to find a hole in either party's story. That is how investigations work and how one can find lies and distortions, by repeated questioning and looking for inconsistency in the tellings and re-tellings.

      So? All he has to do is say he didn’t do it, and give the same story again. And they have no proof, so it’s a complete waste of everyone’s time.

      They already investigated, already questioned him (when he was in the country), they determined there was no case, dropped it, and told him he was free to leave the country. He did.

      Any inconsistency in his tellings and re-tellings would be due to the fact that it happened 4 months ago.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    103. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i guess dave2.0 has forgotten that people are innocent until proven guilty, even here in the US

    104. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      "They already have it."

      Not under oath.

    105. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      Actually, “here in the U.S.” (not everyone who reads Slashdot lives in the U.S. you know), the case would be inadmissible since it’s double jeopardy: you can’t be tried twice for the same crime. They already investigated him and dismissed the case.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    106. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      I don't play games of pursuit and have not had any trouble getting laid. I did have to pass on particular women who had these psychosis' but my longest dry period in my entire life was under six months and that was my fault since I was so torn up over the end of the prior relationship I really didn't care about sex with anyone for a while. I got better and things fell into place quickly. Right now I have a couple girlfriends and three promising fallback options I flirt with that would go somewhere if I had interest.

      I'm fit, tall, good looking, good hygiene, good teeth, and have a good job- but I'm not superhandsome (thinning hair) and I'm an introvert in person. I'm threatened by and not interested in superconfident superpretty women sticking with relatively normal, average good looks women.

      It's not necessary to play the risky games for sex and emotional connection. Any average male has several interested female prospects as long as he has a job, isn't rude, and doesn't stink. It gets better really fast after 30 too when a lot of jocky guys get fat, years of not brushing teeth starts to build up, etc.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    107. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      I like how not one person who has replied to you has gotten your joke :)

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    108. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Scroll down. It seems she originally claimed he only molested her in her sleep (which fits with my assessment), and then allowed him to continue doing whatever they were doing for a week.

      I don't know for sure what that is, but the word 'rape' as I know it wouldn't apply to such goings on...

      As for the 'pattern of conduct' I think that's largely irrelevant. Neither of the women in this context were beyond reproach - one being a groupee and the other sleeping with a colleague. Yes there appear to be people with poor morals involved here. In fact there appear to be THREE such people involved here...

    109. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? Then you are dating some fucked up women, and I'm not going to argue when you are thrown in jail with someone who seems to think your scream of NO means "no, a little to the left".

      You must really go out with immature women.

      I once had a girl told me no, I stopped, and went to bed. She said, Why Did You Stop, and I said "Because You Said No, And I'm Not A Fucking Rapist". And then she said she liked to resist and I said then you need to find someone else because I want someone that wants to fuck me, not someone that wants to act like they don't.

      Got a call a few days later saying "I want you to come over and fuck me".

      There was no nos after that.

      But if you are a fucking moron, and have to be with a woman that thinks playing hard to get when you are already naked is a good thing, you are a fucking moron.

      Did I mention the part about being a fucking moron?

      Then again, I'm not a nerd and I can have sex when I want to. Maybe thats the difference. Most men I know that are forceful or think this is ok are the kind that probably wouldn't have sex if alcohol or cohersion weren't a factor. Learn to be a fucking man and maybe you won't have to.

    110. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      But, it does show an inconsistency in your beliefs and actions which throws doubt on your veracity in regards to both.

      No, it shows that I am consistent even when I think the person’s an ass. My opinion of him doesn’t change the facts of the case, and the fact of this case is that there is no case. It’s an unsubstantiated allegation.

      So, when someone is accused of a crime and he says "I didn't do it", all questioning should stop and the suspects word should be considered the unvarnished truth?

      If there’s no other evidence whatsoever, damn right it should. And you’re an ass.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    111. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by sl149q · · Score: 1

      No deep conspiracy required.

      This is simply a case of a prosecutor attending to his own agenda.... specifically raise his own local profile by pursuing a very high profile person of interest.

      Doesn't matter much what the final outcome is, every time they get quoted or mentioned in the local (Swedish) press they are happy and have succeeded.

    112. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spun · · Score: 1

      I mentioned it was a repost. On her site, when she posted this, she used a picture of a man on a couch in between two women, snuggled up to one and secretly holding the other one's hand. It had a caption about revenge for romantic reasons.

      I think you are being a little pedantic about this. I may have gotten some details wrong, but the point is, she has published an article about getting revenge.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    113. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      Not under oath.

      They had him in the country, available for questioning. If they didn’t put him under oath (or whatever the hell they do there in Sweden), that’s their problem. See dreampod’s comment above.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    114. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spazdor · · Score: 1

      Well, let’s see. What we know:

      [a bunch of bullshit which you don't, in any sense of the word, 'know']

      What a coincidence, obviously we should construct a narrative which assumes that they're lying because they're clearly just a couple of angry bitches who want to take down a nice guy and brave a shitstorm of skeptical and crypto-misogynistic Internet glibertarians casting aspersions on their character, shouting loudly about how there's no evidence it was nonconsensual except for their word on the topic, and quietly disregarding that there's no evidence it was consensual except for his word on the topic.

      FTFY. No need to thank me.

      --
      DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
    115. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by LearnToSpell · · Score: 1

      Innocent unless proven guilty.

    116. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spazdor · · Score: 1

      Two different women with a chance to co-ordinate their stories.

      Uh, you know that this is how rape investigations often work, right? Rapists typically victimize more than one person, and they typically do so in a fashion that leaves the victims with no real evidence against them except for their own testimony? That isn't much to go on, and alone it is rarely enough to get a conviction, and to come forward with a rape accusation without any proof generally means facing a world full of skeptical criticism just like what's going on all over here, so it doesn't take a huge leap of insight to see that many such victims won't ever tell their stories unless they first find each other.

      --
      DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
    117. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      where did I say anything about any forcefulness or rapeplay?

      All of the examples with the exception of pulling a muscle in her back were accompanied with giggles or moans and have nothing to do with pretending force.
      You've never had a girl whisper "*giggle*,no,we shouldn't" while the 2 of you try not to wake up someone in the next room? If not I feel sorry for you.

      I've never picked up a drunk girl or taken advantage of anyone who was drunk though nice absurd strawman there.
      I'm just a sucker for the long term monogamous committed relationships with a realist view on sex.

    118. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Have you ever bought a woman flowers?

    119. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by CyberDragon777 · · Score: 1
      --
      We both said a lot of things that you are going to regret.
    120. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      what?? Interpreting human language, when out of style in the 80s??

      Please read the parent message again, this time more carefully, he is not saying women mean yes when they say no. He is listing a number of sentences that include the word "no", where is doesn't mean "No, please stop". Just like the sentence "no, don't stop", though his examples are more vague.

    121. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? He also beat my wife in Sweden once.

      As he says, individually, the stories are weak, but taken together, they show a pattern of behavior. This warrants further investigation.

    122. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen Ardin's blog, I know the picture. Getting the details wrong is one thing, but implying that she only reported to the police to get revenge, because according to you she blogged about doing just that, is another.

    123. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2

      Five languages of love.

      words of affirmation, quality time, receiving gifts, acts of service, or physical touch.

      I use all five once I'm in a relationship. I use all five at some level before I'm in a relationship.

      Flowers would be under gifts. Just remember, flowers or sports car-- both are good for "1 point". It truly is the "thought that counts" for most women.
       

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    124. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2

      Oh and thoughtless/automatic flowers/gifts are not worth much and may even be counted as a negative.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    125. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Doomdark · · Score: 1

      Really? I do not know exacty statistics of Swedish sex crimes, but I am familiar with policies of other Nordic: these are rather lax compared to countries like US. So first-timer getting even 2 years of obligatory jail time would be highly unusual. I agree in that getting just a fine would also be unusual; most likely punishment would be somewhere in between.

      --
      I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
    126. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      How often has a woman sent you flowers?

    127. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spun · · Score: 1

      Well, you do not deny that she blogged about revenge. I will point out here, that was a year before this whole mess. But I'm saying, some people think about revenge, some think about forgiveness. I had my left eye taken from me by a mugger. I do not want revenge. I have never once discussed revenge online. That is just not the kind of person I am, and I am a bit suspicious of people who are motivated by revenge.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    128. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      [a bunch of bullshit which you don't, in any sense of the word, 'know']

      It was a sequence of events which the stories either agreed on or weren’t disputing. Was there any particular part that you wanted to dispute?

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    129. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not insightful, it's flamebait.

    130. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No you fucking idiot, you made about 6 statements that said pretty much the same thing -- No Means Yes.

      No never means Yes, unless you are a fucking idiot.

      If I've had a girl say "gigle, no we shouldn't" I might try to convince her otherwise, but I'm not sticking anything into anything until I get a yes.

      If she says no, it means no. I mean seriously, is sex that hard to come by that you need no to mean yes under any circumstance? Are the sane women in your life that actually like sex that few and far between so bad than you can't find anything? Really?

      I have a VERY realistic view on sex; I can get it, thus I don't need to play games.

    131. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So it looks increasingly likely that the facts overwhelmingly point to Assange being innocent of all charges.

      Given that, why the hell is he so desperate to avoid going to Sweden and fighting these accusations in the normal way? For someone who so strongly believes in openness and holding other people to account, Assange sure seems to be fond of preserving his own privacy and avoiding answering any difficult questions himself.

    132. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Still not the same as rape. The sex was consented to.

      Calling this rape really denigrates victims of actual rape -- people who did not want to have sex with the other person AT ALL and were forced to.

    133. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spazdor · · Score: 1

      Well, sex which starts consensually but continues after consent is withdrawn is not consensual sex. So that's the first two lines shot.

      And then you just casually tossed in language like "come up with" and "raped" in scare-quotes, with no particular reason to do so. If the allegations are true, they didn't just "come up with a story", and there's no reason to put rape in quotes; the events, as described by the accusers, are rape.

      --
      DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
    134. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed. Too bad Assange isn't Muslim, or the Swedish authorities would be falling over themselves assuring the public that there was no rape and in fact immigrants are a peace-loving fun bunch and it's really the Swedish whores who lure them into committing misunderstood crimes.

    135. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      Well, sex which starts consensually but continues after consent is withdrawn is not consensual sex. So that's the first two lines shot.

      Had they previously had consensual sex? Then the first two lines were factual.

      If the allegations are true, they didn't just "come up with a story"

      I meant came forward.

      there's no reason to put rape in quotes; the events, as described by the accusers, are rape.

      Ok. I should have said allegedly raped, not “raped”.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    136. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a coincidence, obviously we should believe them over anything Guy has to say.

      Or we could use an open and fair justice system to try him. I think the women's cases are hopeless unless they have some decent physical evidence. It's probably not impossible that the attorney will drop the case before it reaches the courtroom.

    137. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Haeleth · · Score: 1

      It says something about the warped view people have on these issues that you have to swap it around male-female in order for anyone to even consider the matter sanely.

      It's not entirely warped. Men face different consequences; for example, it's relatively rare for unwanted blowjobs to result in pregnancy.

    138. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spun · · Score: 1

      It has to do with extradition treaties. It is far easier for the US to extradite from Sweden than from, say, the UK. Going back to Sweden means, potentially, being extradited to the US and then being tortured to death.

      But there is also the dick factor. As in, Julian Assange appears to be a royal dick. I know, astounding! Unbelievable! How can someone who is a royal dick do anything good? As I think we all know from popular literature, television, and movies, people are either wholly good or totally evil. The idea that someone could be a dick, potentially even a sexual offender (I refuse to use the term rapist) and still fight for truth and freedom, why that is just stupid. It can't happen. /sarcasm

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    139. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spun · · Score: 1

      Fuck off, race troll.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    140. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by swb · · Score: 2

      What we have is a repressive social environment for female sexuality and a female sex drive with subtle yet profound differences from the male sex drive. Sprinkle on a little fear of getting pregnant (when you're the one that actually has to carry the baby) along with perhaps some tertiary fear of STDs. And of course none of this even starts to cover the vast emotional territory associated with sexuality, "romance" (for lack of a better word) and the dynamics of an intimate relationship.

      What you end up with is a weird situation where women have a high degree of internal conflict about sex (empowered? slut? love? like? pregnant? disease? good? bad?) and a tacit agreement among couples that stated "no" is seldom emphatic and often has many other meanings that change as circumstances change.

    141. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      First of all, the consequences of rape are not just physical. Secondly, there’s still the risk of transmission of STDs.

      And thirdly, speaking of pregnancy, is it rare for a woman to say she’s on the pill when she isn’t so as to get pregnant (aiming for either child support or a hasty marriage, I suppose)? And is that rape?

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    142. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by BeanThere · · Score: 1

      If my girlfriend wakes me up with a blowjob is that rape?

      Sure but only if a week later, you find out she was cheating on you at the time.

    143. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what exactly is the motivation of both of these women make the whole thing public? They can only lose, even if they are right. The only motivation I can think of is that they're both really pissed off by the guy for very good reasons, for example non-consensual sex without protection and hence the danger of having been infected with a severe STD.

    144. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spazdor · · Score: 1

      Had they previously had consensual sex? Then the first two lines were factual.

      Ok. In that case, I'm not sure what bearing you think this has on the truth or falsehood of the accusations. You're surely aware that attack by strangers accounts for a minority of all rapes.

      In a murder trial, would you point out that, at some determined point in time prior to the victim's death, they were most definitely not being murdered by the defendant?

      --
      DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
    145. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by JamesP · · Score: 1

      Well, I'm still waiting for "Wiki take a leak"

      Ok, on second thought, maybe not...

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    146. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by BeanThere · · Score: 1

      But, the part you are missing is this: Assange could and should have stopped when the condom broke and the woman asked him to stop.

      And the part you are missing is that this is just their story and there is no evidence that this is actually what happened. You speak as if you've assumed he is guilty, you don't even put "allegedly". Do you believe women never lie about things like this?

    147. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spyfrog · · Score: 1

      I would like to point out something - the Swedish laws against rape is extremely broad.
      Actually, it is so formulated that some of the most prominent lawyers in Sweden say that to be absolutely sure to NOT be accused of rape in Sweden, you would almost need to make a written contract before you start and record it (with written permission off course).
      That is course a bit extreme but it is probably the only way to be sure to not end up in court. My guess is that famous layers don't have much sex.

    148. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by RivieraKid · · Score: 1

      Yet, you state he should not be returned to be questioned, so how can there be an investigation?

      The evidence is their word. His defense is his word. Who knows what other evidence there is? Perhaps they have the broken condom with his and her DNA.

      Actually, I think you'll find that their "word" is an allegation, not evidence. There's this funny concept that still exists (in name at least) called "Innocent until proven guilty"

      Even a broken condom with viable DNA isn't proof - all that means is that they likely had sex at some point in the past. It does mean he likely had the opportunity, but sadly for you, it does not prove motive or intent. To achieve true justice, you'd need to combine all three to secure a conviction, not just the possibility of one. Hell, we all have many opportunities all day to rape, kill, steal, and cheat, but that doesn't mean we did any of those.

      If he did it, then nail his balls to the wall, but sadly for you we don't yet live in a distopian police state paradise of the future and based on the alleged evidence so far, there isn't a case to answer.

      --
      "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves
    149. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by bryz · · Score: 1

      You know what, actually, after writing the title, I can't bring myself to do this. You all deserve better.

      I think the replies somehow missed what you were going for so I'll do it for you: Yo Dawg, I heard you like leaks, so I put a leak on your leaks so you can leak while you leak. "embed image of Xzibit"

    150. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      Ok. In that case, I'm not sure what bearing you think this has on the truth or falsehood of the accusations.

      A lot, actually. If they’d never had consensual sex, they could probably have just produced a semen-stained article of clothing and get a conviction. Once it’s established that they did have consensual sex, it becomes a much more difficult matter of proving that this particular instance was rape.

      In a murder trial, would you point out that, at some determined point in time prior to the victim's death, they were most definitely not being murdered by the defendant?

      Suppose (to go out on a really bizarre hypothetical here) it was an established fact that they engaged in asphyxiation fetish which was mutually consented to and enjoyed by both. If the death really was an accident, pointing this out very well might be appropriate; the murder charge might be reduced to involuntary manslaughter.

      Granted that’s quite a bit more extreme than a condom breaking, but hopefully I made the point. (And a condom breaking could result in being exposed to deadly STDs, so it’s not really too over-the-top.)

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    151. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by BeanThere · · Score: 1

      If he was not trying to sidestep investigation, then why did he leave the country and refuse to return for questioning?

      Now you are really just making up complete lies (and revealing your true agenda, apparently), because he at no point did he "refuse" to return for questioning; as soon as their paperwork for the request was in order, he complied fully and legally and cooperatively. He has cooperated every step of the way. He was perfectly legally allowed to leave the country. You clearly have an agenda, and clearly are lying.

    152. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You must be a fucking riot at parties.

    153. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Wolfling1 · · Score: 1

      She said that the first she realised she'd been raped was when the cheque bounced.

    154. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by RivieraKid · · Score: 1

      Why yes, yes it does. It's not until you are convicted at trial that you are legally guilty.

      Until then you are just accused.

      --
      "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves
    155. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      I hear that when the condom breaks, in europe it is a law that states you are a criminal if you do not tell the other person, but what if you are not sure...i guess maybe if the lights stay turned off, he zips his pants and leaves, and then realizes later on after the fact, and now does not have her phone number....he could not get a hold of her
      sheesh....pretty bad law if you ask me....no room for error!

    156. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Other reports have one of the women (Anna Ardin) bragging about her sexual conquest of an internatinoal celebrity the day after the encounter (using text messages from her mobile phone and twitter). Isn't it kind of weird to wait two months after boasting about screwing Assange to then file a police report about being "raped" by him? Hmmmmm.....

    157. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      I don't think that has happened.

      I've gotten lots of cards, some chocolate, treated to special dinners for my favorite foods a few dozen times, special permissions to do unreasonable things, treated to a weekend getaway, and of course regular birthday and christmas gifts.

      A lot of help thinking about things- especially social problems with my ex, or with a co-worker. One of my platonic ex's still helps me with this a lot.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    158. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      And, what, exactly, prevents him from being extradited to the U.S. from the U.K.?

      Politically and legally the UK is more independent than many other countries. The UK has a bigger economy and is less likely to be influenced by economic or trade issues for example. I am an Australian like Assange and I reckon he is safer in the UK than his home country.

    159. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by mdmkolbe · · Score: 1

      Individually, the stories are weak, but taken together, they show a pattern of behavior.

      Two proven events show a pattern of behaviour. All we have now are two people who (IIUC) admit to conferring with each other before making these accusations. Genuinely independent accusations may mutually strengthen the likelihood of their truth as they point to a common cause (e.g. a pattern of behaviour). But with previous collaboration, the accusations are no longer independent. The collaboration is a common cause that overshadows other causes.

    160. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Knuckles · · Score: 1

      Having sex with someone while they're asleep is rape.(...)

      Oh puleeeze!!! You don't think that the previous relationship plays a role at all?

      I mean, of course it's rape if a find a sleeping stranger somewhere, let's say at the airport waiting for her flight, and start to fuck her.

      But there was this girl with whom I had shared an long sexual relationship, and one night it developed that I started to fuck her while she was asleep. Of course she woke up, and of course she did not regard it as rape. Another night it was the other way around, and I didn't regard it as rape either.

      Then there was this other girl, with whom I had also shared a long sexual relationship, and one night we both woke up and found that we had started to fuck while asleep. So what's that then?

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    161. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, let's see:

      The stork brings babies to the homes of parents who want them.
      The easter bunny hides eggs that you won't find until they start reeking.
      The tooth fairy turns your teeth into a piano and plays Coin Operate Boy loudly at inappropriate moments.
      Santa will give you presence, but only if you don't post rape culture supporting crap on Slashdot.



      Hey, there's exactly as much evidence for my ideas as there are for yours.

    162. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Point being - gender roles exist and the implicit expectation is for the male to pursue the female.

    163. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by edjs · · Score: 1

      No, double jeopardy only applies if one has been found guilty or acquitted of a crime. The authorities can investigate, charge, drop charges, even go to trial but withdraw before it is finished, after which they can still try you again for a crime. In this situation, the authorities investigated a complaint and dropped it, then reopened the investigation. No one's been charged AFAIK, let alone gone on trial for a crime.

    164. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      If I have sex with a nice hairy cuddly beary man, and he tells me afterwards that on 2012-12-21 all the US army will be on Defcon 3 due to the Mayan calendar thingy, is that rape? Does it make a difference whether we used a condom or not? Or is it just a leak of top secret military info? Or did he only pull my leg?

    165. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm. I have you listed as a foe, but I after reading this post, I had to wonder why. I went back and re-reread a dozen of your posts. Ah, I see. You're in favor of racial profiling. And yet you seem to have a competent understanding of sexual politics. You're a complex person, despicable and admirable in equal turns.

    166. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      it's all but impossible to have sex with a woman who is asleep without pretty much waking her up completely in the process?

      I don't know about women, but I do know that is is possible with men.

      A guy that I know occasionally sucked his buddy's dick while he was asleep, and did it so well that his buddy even came, all without waking up.

    167. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by clone52431 · · Score: 2

      You're a complex person, despicable and admirable in equal turns.

      I find that most people are like that, and it’s one reason that I’m usually reluctant to use the Foe feature.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    168. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      It's quite simple.

      Unless they tell you before hand and negotiate an alternate word for "no" (like say... watermelon), then no means no.

      You stop when she says "stop", she gets mad and pulls you back, asking why you stopped. True story.

      Life just ain't that simple, sonny boy.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    169. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it is rape if he is making it up. Did you not notice the part of the article where is said "compiled evidence"?

      She did wake up, even though if she hadn't it would still have been rape. She did tell him to stop, and he didn't, but even if she hadn't it could still have been rape. If you read the full Guardian article you will notice that the complaint was made to the police right away, that there is compiled evidence supporting the women's stories, that she offered not to go to the police if Assange was willing to undergo STD testing after he had unprotected sex with her against her express desires.

      It is clear that Assange doesn't think he did anything wrong, but he is wrong. Absolutely wrong. For any slashdotter reading this, if a woman wants to have sex but only with a condom, and you have sex with her without a condom without her knowledge, you are a rapist. If she wants you to put a condom on and you hold her down until she stops stops struggling and proceed to have unprotected sex with her? You are a rapist. If anyone has done any of those things to you? Then you were raped.

      Either way, I know this may be hard to hear, but it's the truth. The first step is to admit that using power and manipulation to violate someone's boundaries and get sex is wrong. It's not sort of wrong, it's not wrong some of the time, it's not wrong unless you really want to have sex, it is break-a-window-and-steal-someone's-tv wrong. It is hit-a-child wrong. It is dog-fighting wrong. It is simply unacceptable. If you've done this it doesn't mean that you are evil, or beyond redemption. People can always change, you can make amends, you can work with other men to teach them about consent and rape and make the world different in the future, so that the boys growing up now know that it is always wrong to prioritize your sexual satisfaction over someone else's safety or comfort.

    170. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      They realize he had condomless sex with both of them.

      There is only one way to avoid such situation (apart from always wearing a condom...): just have a f'ick threesome. That way everybody's happy. At once :-)

    171. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by MoriT · · Score: 1

      That doesn't mean you don't have to stand trial, dumbass. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. No matter how famous you are, you can't skip the "court of law" part.

    172. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      I get your point. "Pursuing" is not the same as "ignoring them when they say "no" and you don't have a clear understanding of what they mean by that".

      Men who think and act that way are taking a huge risk.

      I basically just take no as no and walk away until it turns into yes which it does about half the time and everyone is happy. Lots of females pursue males. I was married from 18 to 26 and really am not as obsessed with picking up women as most men. I enjoy it and spend a lot more time on it than most men tho- typically 2 to 4 hours, three times a week so about 9 to 12 hours a week. Most men just race to their personal orgasm and then wonder why women are not interested.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    173. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      For a guy who has something to lose...

      Start with an antiquated assumption that the guy should pay even if they make less money, sprinkle on a little fear of child support for life if she gets pregnant, along with perhaps some tertiary fear of STDs. And of course, guys fall in love fast and get their guts ripped out easily by women who have a different speed for emotional involvement (often finally ready as the guy is headed out the door).

      It's not our father's and grandfather's situation- you can't get a girl pregnant and walk on her as used to happen unless you can leave the country or have an all cash job and can move state to state. Of course then, you knew pregnancy was likely- today the girl can say she's on birth control when she really isn't (lesson- take care of your own protection).

      You get hit for 25% of your income, your attractiveness to quality spouses drops a lot.

      I find guys are more cautious these days and we see more articles about the dynamic with women changing (including guys openly dating multiple girls and telling the girls they are free to leave if they are not happy). I also see articles indicating the guys are less likely to marry.

      On the flip side, I see more house husbands, and more husbands with wives who make more money- so the young ladies are a little more realistic than my college friend who never got married because she insisted on someone who was good looking, tall, rich, and wanted to have 4 or more kids while she stayed home.

      Women are not the sole gateway any more. They pursue men more than they used to. Quality men know they have options.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    174. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Oh, and I get now that you were asking, "Have you ever bought a woman gifts such as flowers before you had a relationship with her to entice her into a relationship with you".

      No. I haven't bought flowers.

      I did go on one date to an expensive restaurant tho. And it was very distasteful experience.

      And... on the flip side, about 10 years ago, a lady did take me out me to an expensive restaurant. Nothing came of that either tho we flirted around a bit, there wasn't enough chemistry/shared interests for a full time relationship with her which is what she was looking for.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    175. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Illuminati/Reptilian mind-control rays are making them do it. Obviously.

    176. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Steeltoe · · Score: 1

      You haven't had sex yet I see.. ;)

      What happened with just getting up and leave the bed? What was she doing in the same bed as Mr. Assange anyways?

      The reports says no violence or threats were involved. So it doesn't seem any due effort were put in order to stop the activity.

      In any civilized and mature country, that would mean consensual sex.

    177. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then there was this other girl, with whom I had also shared a long sexual relationship, and one night we both woke up and found that we had started to fuck while asleep. So what's that then?

      Awesome. Seriously awesome.

    178. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Capsaicin · · Score: 1

      [S]o it doesn't take a huge leap of insight to see that many such victims won't ever tell their stories unless they first find each other.

      Whatever the motivation, the problem is that their reports are now contaminated which should lead any reasonable tribunal of fact to regard them as less than reliable.

      Bear in mind that when we remember things, we don't simply recall past events accurately inscribed in the mind. We recreate a narrative of events afresh from the point-of-view of our current situation.

      The fact that several hours (indeed days) passed between the "rape" and the report to police must give us pause in accepting the veracity of the report. The fact that action was taken, only after the two women discovered that the man in question was a two-timing rat, ought to make us highly sceptical. Indeed, that fact raises the real possibility that this may not merely be a case where events are being creatively "remembered" through the lens of emotional disappointment, but where the women are deliberately lying.

      In any case, the criminalisation of messy relationship problems aside, what is most suspicious is not the behaviour of the women (whose motivation for revenge is only natural), but the amazingly heavy-handed approach to the investigation taken by the Swedish authorities.

      --
      Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
    179. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fair enough. I'm suspicious of people who make "fun facts" up to support their argument.

    180. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spazdor · · Score: 1

      In any case, the criminalisation of messy relationship problems aside, what is most suspicious is not the behaviour of the women (whose motivation for revenge is only natural), but the amazingly heavy-handed approach to the investigation taken by the Swedish authorities.

      Again I'm gonna take issue with the one-eyed interpretation here. If the accusations are legit, then the women's motivation is still only natural. More natural, even.

      But you're right; the really fishy part here is not the accusers, it's the way the local law enforcement has moved mountains for them, without ever appearing to give a shit about any of the thousands of other unsolved sex crimes on their plate at the moment.

      --
      DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
    181. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by BeanThere · · Score: 1

      But there was this girl with whom I had shared an long sexual relationship, and one night it developed that I started to fuck her while she was asleep.

      And in Assange's case, this woman must've gone to bed naked with him (or did he allegedly undress her while she slept too? boy this woman is a deep sleeper). If you don't want to have sex with a guy, you hardly climb naked into their bed.

    182. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by NoSig · · Score: 1

      I've been sleeping with women regularly for sixteen years and trust me, it's basically impossible to have non-forced sex with a woman unless she is awake.

      Hmm...

    183. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      As he says, individually, the stories are weak, but taken together, they show a pattern of behavior. This warrants further investigation.

      Individually, the stories are weak, but taken together, it looks like two women who are upset that they were both having sex with the same guy.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    184. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      Sidestep? Sidestep? So what would you do if you were facing the possibility of jail in a foreign prison for rape, the tango?

    185. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by bkk_diesel · · Score: 1

      Both girls were only very pissed off when they discovered each other and only then did they cry fowl.

      They're not calling him a turkey, they're accusing him of rape.

    186. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Capsaicin · · Score: 1

      Again I'm gonna take issue with the one-eyed interpretation here.

      No, I've got both eyes fairly open here. Reading between the lines it's not too difficult to appreciate the generality of what actually took place. Assange picked the wrong woman to pull that kind of stunt on.

      But you are right, we need at least to entertain the possibility that the complaints are genuine and my point stands whether they are or not. I think it completely unnecessary, however weak the case appears (and it appears exceedingly weak to me), to invoke any conspiratorial motives, CIA connexions &tc, to explain why the women took the action they did.

      But you're right; the really fishy part here is not the accusers, it's the way the local law enforcement has moved mountains for them, without ever appearing to give a shit about any of the thousands of other unsolved sex crimes on their plate at the moment.

      Well I can't speak about how other sex crimes have been dealt with, but we need to remember that this alleged crime is still in the stage of investigation. In that context, issuing an international arrest warrant; attempting to keep a suspect (or more formally one of a number of witnesses and a witness who has already deposited to boot) in solitary confinement when fairly stringent bail conditions were being applied; not offering to send investigating officers to the UK to complete the interview; all before any charges have actually been laid -- does strike me as excessive and raises the obvious question, why?

      --
      Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
    187. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by RewriteQuran · · Score: 0

      Post 9/11 it is Guilty until proven innocent

      --
      Govt must constitute a panel to rewrite US Constitution and Quran
    188. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      I'm going to use your posts in this thread to make a formal allegation to the authorities here in Australia that you are the dumbest slashdotter ever. Of course I expect you to pay for your own plane ticket to face the investigation. Oh and don't be suprised when the authorties say "yes, you're free to go" that they really mean "No, you're not".

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    189. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which summary?
      Are we talking about http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/12/20/1519222 ?

      No Guardian link there. Link to your guardian article please? thanks

    190. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      They're not calling him a turkey, they're accusing him of rape.

      I think he meant that it was a very kinky kind of rape which involved poultry....

    191. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      You are all -1 off topic for this thread. >:|

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    192. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by HydroPhonic · · Score: 1

      ...it contains allegations on which the prosecutor's indictment was based.

      Had there been an indictment, we would be having a different discussion....

    193. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by DrBoumBoum · · Score: 1

      And unless they are aware of this sort of agreements common among people well versed into BDSM (which not everyone is, can you dig that?), they can perfectly say no and mean yes.

      In fact I once actually stopped fingering a girl in the car who was moaning "please stop, I don't want" etc, (the reason being because I got fed up of the game for whatever reason), she was really on the verge of orgasm and she was furious about me afterwards. I guess she must have given herself a nice long wank in her bed after coming home, cursing me in all manners imaginable ("fuck me you piece of shit") :-)

      I was really a fool to do that at that time, I'd never do it again. If a girl really wants you to stop you know it immediately from her angry voice and struggling. If you're not able to tell the difference you're a sorry moron.

    194. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess that Slashdot, Taco, and letsurock have forgotten that when the women says stop and the man doesn't, it is rape, even here in the U.S.

      Actually, if you're already in the middle of having sex, and then you say stop, it's up to YOU to provide evidence of that. And the police will take your report, and file it right in the trash, because they have better things to do with their time then investigate some gold-digger.

    195. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And "I said no", in this case, at least for one of the "victims", seems to mean "I was already in trouble with the US government, and they asked me to say bad stuff about Assange, because they want him gone, so I thought... hey, why not? But now I'm having a change of heart, and have actually posted a few tweets in SUPPORT of wiileaks."

    196. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Elbowgeek · · Score: 1

      The problem is that, no matter how untrue they may be, accusations of sexual crimes leave an almost unremoveable stain on the accused. Sometimes an allegation is as good as a conviction, and if the Mysterious World Powers(tm) are out to cast doubt on the character of their target, a sex crime is probably the easiest way to do it.

      --
      Who is this delectable creature with an insatiable love of the dead?
    197. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only motivation I can think of is that they're both really pissed off by the guy for very good reasons

      For example, they found out he was cheating on both of them with the other. Makes at least as much sense as your explanation.

    198. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i guess another gem of wisdom would be to only bed one woman at a time. in this case, it's the word of two against one. not good for mr. assange.

    199. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Your argument is no better than what you accuse these women of. You have no evidence beyond your prejudices against feminists (and BTW I don't think feminism means what you think it does) and the word of Julian.

      So what if they didn't speak up until they discovered each other? It seems like the both continued to like him after the alleged events, but upon discovering that he was habitually having unprotected sex with multiple partners saw his actions in a different light. A one-off condom failure is just bad luck but if the guy is trying different tricks with different women to get his unsheathed dick in them then you might reasonably assume there is some ill intent there.

      I don't know what happened and now this lot has leaked we may never get a fair trial, but to simply judge these women based on the fact that they are... well, women, is wrong. Innocence until proven guilty works both ways; we have to assume they are not lying until proven otherwise.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    200. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      They want him to get tested for HIV.

      That makes no sense. Why do they care if he has HIV? Surely they need to get tests themselves to allay any fears they may have.

      Woman A has posted an essay on her blog about using the legal system to extract revenge on men who have wronged a woman romantically.

      [citation needed]

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    201. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by spun · · Score: 1
      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    202. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by DrVomact · · Score: 1

      ...it contains allegations on which the prosecutor's indictment was based.

      Had there been an indictment, we would be having a different discussion....

      I stand corrected. At this point in the discussion, I was not yet clear about this rather startling fact. I should have said "...it contains allegations made by the Swedish government that have served as the justification for Her Britannic Majesty's government to hold Mr. Assange in solitary confinement, and to consider his extradition to Sweden.

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    203. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems like the both continued to like him after the alleged events, but upon discovering that he was habitually having unprotected sex with multiple partners saw his actions in a different light.

      “Seeing his actions in a different light” cannot after-the-fact create rape out of what wasn’t rape. Period.

    204. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Life is that simple sonny boy when the law gets involved.

      And they won't stop screwing you when you say "no" either.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    205. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      I agree with you on the assange thing- why not just get up out of bed. he wasn't keeping them there.

      If they said no and he ignored them, then legally he's on the hook.

      This is something squirrelly in European law about having sex under false pretenses tho.

      It's not the stranger in the dark real deal. This discussion is about something different. Guys who say "she means yes when she says no". I know that happens. But unless you talked about it beforehand and you proceed, you are taking a serious risk.

      ---
      Oh, a reasonable estimate is over 9,000 times with 12 different women over 32 years. Sooo... I have a bit of experience.
      I have always taken no to mean no unless we talk about it before hand. It may take a little longer and it may lose some opportunities but it gets the kind of lady's I prefer anyway (i.e. with their head screwed on straight).

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    206. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      "Good job" is becoming the same when repeated daily... Especially when in the same breath it is said to me, and my incompetent coworker.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    207. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      Life is that simple sonny boy when the law gets involved.

      And they won't stop screwing you when you say "no" either.

      Nothing is simple when the law gets involved.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    208. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Yea.

      I guess I'm just more careful about it than some here seem to be.

      I've seen one friend get his life really badly screwed up over one of these issues (the new orleans thing).

      I really take the "no means no" thing seriously and directly. It's one of those areas where "it's all fun and games until the girl changes her mind and involves the law".

      I know several disagree and buy into the game that no means yes but it's a very risky game.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    209. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      You took all the risk, she took none.

      She could have ruined you afterwards, even if she changed her mind a day afterwards. "I told him to stop several times and he didn't". "Oh but officer, I knew she actually wanted it".

      Even if you are completely in the right, you are risking your job, several months of disruption of your life, and several thousand dollars in legal fees.

      I don't know... that seems like moronic risk to me.

      ---

      All this is somewhat difference if you have a relationship with the girl but you clearly didn't and neither did Assange with his two ladies. If some random girl got pissed at you after you did what she said, then she is psycho. I also don't get involved with psycho's.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    210. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...does not apply in Sweden...

    211. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      And the fact they are both avid feminist activitists,

      No need to be coy, just say "and so they're obviously man-hating lesbians" we're all grown up here and have heard this sexist tripe before.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    212. Re:Yo dawg, I heard by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      In my book, fucking someone who's asleep/not conscious is rape unless they agreed to it while still awake.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  2. Can someone link the report? by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So its apparently been leaked...

    And there's no link in Slashdots Article. And googling for it brings up hundreds of news sites and blogs who all talk about it but also don't link to the police report.

    Is it being hosted somewhere? Is it possible to get a copy of the police report and not rely on what people say it says?

    1. Re:Can someone link the report? by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Funny

      So its apparently been leaked...

      Rather like Assange's condom

    2. Re:Can someone link the report? by poetmatt · · Score: 0, Troll

      just like US police,

      they can write anything they want in the affidavit and the women can claim whatever they want. All of that fails to focus on that this was pushed by the US gov't and that the US gov't is very clearly to blame for trying to blow this out of proportion (and making the US look even worse). Really, interpol for this? a 200k pound bond for a $700 fine in sweden?

      I'm amazed that we still see this being pushed around the globe even though it just highlights everything and creates that much more scrutiny.

    3. Re:Can someone link the report? by nomadic · · Score: 1

      All of that fails to focus on that this was pushed by the US gov't

      Do you have proof of this?

    4. Re:Can someone link the report? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 3

      Do you have any evidence to suggest that the U.S. government has any involvement in this Swedish case? Or are you just assuming, since you think the U.S. government must be out to get him, they must be behind this?

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    5. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is a Guardian article which seems to talk about it very in-depth but doesn't present the raw document. They've apparently seen it though so either whoever leaked it is letting people look but not touch or there's some reason for it being kept sort-of under wraps.

    6. Re:Can someone link the report? by john82 · · Score: 1

      ...this was pushed by the US gov't and that the US gov't is very clearly to blame for trying to blow this out of proportion (and making the US look even worse).

      Your tinfoil hat seems to be a little snug. It's cutting off the blood flow to your brain.

    7. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Assange case is only the most high profile example of the ridiculous rape laws that exist today - thanks mostly to screeching feminists. The laws are written in such a way that is it possible for a woman to perform a character assassination on a man with only an accusation and no evidence... and then walk away with no stigma attached to her and her name kept secret. The man is dragged through the press and his reputation ruined.

      Bullshit rape allegations are regularly used to ensure custody of children, settle scores, remove rivals for promotion etc. It's one of the great disgraces of modern law. In this case... it's being used by the authorities for political reasons.

    8. Re:Can someone link the report? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Unless you can read Swedish, the original document probably won't be much use to you...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    9. Re:Can someone link the report? by pipatron · · Score: 4, Informative

      The "cablegate" leaks clearly showed that the Swedish government have very close ties to the U.S. one, something that they are trying to keep from the public eye. Assuming that the U.S. are pressuring the Swedes right now is probably not very far fetched.

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    10. Re:Can someone link the report? by pipatron · · Score: 5, Interesting

      He's wanted for questioning.

      Meanwhile, we have a recent case of two Irish guys beating a Swedish guy half to death on a cruise. They were caught by the guards and on camera, and their identities and whereabouts in Ireland are known, but the Swedish government are not willing to do anything because the crime was not serious enough. Compare this with a broken condom.

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    11. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously it's at wikileaks...

    12. Re:Can someone link the report? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think the US Government is behind this, but if it turns out that they were, it would not surprise me either. There's a few strange things about this case... for example, why would Sweden oppose Assange to be released on bail by the UK, for this very flimsy allegation of rape? The case itself doesn't really merit the measures that have been taken against Assange so far.

      Of course, if the US really wanted to get their hands on Assange "legally", then this would be the easiest avenue of approach. Once Assange is in Swedish custody, all the US have to do is charge him and request extradition. If that happens, my guess is that the rape charge will evaporate overnight so that nothing stands in the way of his extradition.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    13. Re:Can someone link the report? by Pharmboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As someone pointed out, a $200,000 bond for a $700 fine? Any time the bond is more than the maximum penalty, particularly in an extreme case such as this, then something else is at play. Interpol is involved over a $700 fine? Has there ever been a parallel, in all history, whereby interpol would get so involved in something that is punishable by an amount slightly more than a traffic ticket? I don't know if there is direct proof that the US is involved, but it is kinda like walking in the kitchen, seeing an empty cookie jar, and child with crumbs on their shirt. No, you didn't SEE the child eat the cookies, and it is technically possible for someone else to have eaten them an put the crumbs on the child's shirt, but the smart money bets on the obvious.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    14. Re:Can someone link the report? by HelloKitty2 · · Score: 1

      Or it's a sort of thing that only get's leaked to the media for some reward, then they maybe sell it to other news organizations.

    15. Re:Can someone link the report? by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      I care about their children.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    16. Re:Can someone link the report? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is a long way from something being "not very far fetched" to that same something being "very clearly" so. Of course, you also point out a reason that the Swedish government might want to string up Julian Assange without any pressure from the U.S. government.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    17. Re:Can someone link the report? by zarthrag · · Score: 1

      Conversely, absence of evidence does not constitute evidence of absence.

      --
      Why can't all fpga/microcontroller manufacturers just release free optimizing compilers???
    18. Re:Can someone link the report? by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      hmm. lets see. the espionage claims? the terrorism training in sweden? how much else do you need?

    19. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      His Wiki Leaked...

    20. Re:Can someone link the report? by Thud457 · · Score: 1

      Claims of governments, sadly, now lately, even the United States government, behaving thusly are not extraordinary .

      Actually, the Swedish government is probably actually doing Assange a favor by keeping him off the streets so some CIA sub-contractor doesn't scoop him up in a white van and rendition his translucent white ass off to some secret prison in Violateyourrightsistan. Hell, that's how'd I'd deal with the situation if I had the job. And I wouldn't bother making any faux denials of involvement, so any other like-minded people get the message .

      and I'm a supporter of government transparency in general.

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    21. Re:Can someone link the report? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Yes, but the absence of evidence moves something from "very clearly" to "possible".

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    22. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikileaks.org perhaps? I hear that's where all the best confidential stuff shows up...

    23. Re:Can someone link the report? by sourcerror · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You mean his rubberhose?

      "
      Written by WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, Rubberhose is a freeware
      deniable encryption scheme for multiple file systems whose existence can only
      be verified using a cryptographic key.

      http://iq.org/~proff/rubberhose.org/
      "

    24. Re:Can someone link the report? by Kozz · · Score: 5, Funny

      He's wanted for questioning.

      Meanwhile, we have a recent case of two Irish guys beating a Swedish guy half to death on a cruise. They were caught by the guards and on camera, and their identities and whereabouts in Ireland are known, but the Swedish government are not willing to do anything because the crime was not serious enough. Compare this with a broken condom.

      But did the Swedish guy actually ask them to stop?

      --
      I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
    25. Re:Can someone link the report? by Motard · · Score: 2

      I saw that post too, but I suspect there's more to it.

      I was thinking about it from Assange's perspective. Why wouldn't he go voluntarily to Sweden, plead no contest, and pay the fine and go free. As it is, he's a sitting duck should the US file its own charges and seek extradition.

      So I bet there's a lot more at stake than a few hundred bucks.

    26. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's wanted for questioning.

      In many (most?) countries, being wanted for questioning isn't an offense, let alone an extraditable offense. In civilized countries you don't have to talk to the police.

      Meanwhile, we have a recent case of two Irish guys beating a Swedish guy half to death on a cruise. They were caught by the guards and on camera, and their identities and whereabouts in Ireland are known, but the Swedish government are not willing to do anything because the crime was not serious enough. Compare this with a broken condom.

      Was this actually a Swedish boat? Otherwise Sweden might not have jurisdiction.

      Since there are so many flags of convenience, if a crime occurs on the high seas, the applicable authority is the nation where the ship is registered (typically Liberia, Panama, Cook Islands, etc.) unless it is one of the few crimes with universal or extraterritorial jurisdiction.

    27. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, his weewee leaked.

    28. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's wanted for incarceration.

      It is hilarious to me that so much effort must be expended to "question" him. This is 2010, if they simply sought answers to their questions, he could go to any studio, remote classroom, or police station in the world, fire up the cameras and conduct a live interactive interview. Every serious news organization in the world with a television presence has the ability to conduct remote interviews... they need extradition to "question" him? It would be different if they had actually _charged_ him with a crime but they didn't. Witch hunt- Er uh, I mean... *questioning* should not require extradition.

      They don't have anything, otherwise they'd have charged him with a crime. The only thing interviewing him could possibly result in is his incriminating himself.

      At this point, let me wave the American Flag and sing the Star Spangled banner for in America they at least pretend in the legal arena that people are innocent until proven guilty while the 5th Amendment of our Constitution protects us from self-incrimination.

    29. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Time for Ocams razor

      A) Swedish-US undercover agencies arranged a honey trap that perfectly played out with no shred of evidence other then speculation

      B) The dude did rape them

    30. Re:Can someone link the report? by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      Time for an Anonymous Coward to be flogged. Not only can you not correctly use Occam’s razor, but you can not correctly spell it either.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    31. Re:Can someone link the report? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      I have tons of hard evidence....

      I just need a friend of mine in the Secret service leak the documents out for me....

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    32. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it me, or do others read Assange as "a sausage"?

    33. Re:Can someone link the report? by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      Doesn't matter, The document should still be presented or else it is all 'hearsay'.

    34. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thank you!

    35. Re:Can someone link the report? by Scragglykat · · Score: 1

      He's wanted for questioning.

      Meanwhile, we have a recent case of two Irish guys beating a Swedish guy half to death on a cruise. They were caught by the guards and on camera, and their identities and whereabouts in Ireland are known, but the Swedish government are not willing to do anything because the crime was not serious enough. Compare this with a broken condom.

      But did the Swedish guy actually ask them to stop?

      I believe he was asleep at the time, so how could he?

    36. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you be so kind as to provide your sources for the claim that he orchestrated the leak?

    37. Re:Can someone link the report? by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Interpol's own constitution forbids them from getting involved in cases where a crime wasn't committed in more than one member country and where the punishment is less then 12 months in prison.

      This case fails on both counts. The fact that they're involved at all is clear evidence of corruption at the highest level. ...and has been pointed out on many occasions, women are raped every day. Really raped. Beaten senseless afterwards and dumped out of the backs of vans in alleyways. Traumatized and afraid to go outside for the rest of their lives. Even so it's very difficult to get the police involved and almost impossible to start a manhunt unless it's a serial rapist.

      And here we have an international manhunt over a broken condom. It's a complete perversion of justice and an insult to all the women who've ever really been raped.

      --
      No sig today...
    38. Re:Can someone link the report? by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      I heard they want him in Sweden because it's much easier to extradite him to the USA from there. Don't know if it's true but it makes sense.

      Has the USA decided which of their laws he's broken yet or are they still trying to find something...?

      --
      No sig today...
    39. Re:Can someone link the report? by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Probably waiting for what's know as "the right price".

      --
      No sig today...
    40. Re:Can someone link the report? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Sorry, wtf? You're suggesting someone pleads guilty to a sexual assault charge when they claim to be innocent? Just to avoid a mythical extradition attempt that
      - would cause him to be arrested in Sweden or the UK anyway, irrespective of potential sex crime charges
      - would likely fail due to the political nature of espionage laws

      He's running no greater risk by failing to fly to Sweden and admit to a crime that he hasn't even been charged with than he is by denying it completely and co-operating with the legal authorities in the jurisdiction within which he currently resides.

      In the meantime he's only an accused rapist, not a proven one. Don't know about you, but shit a position as being accused of rape is, it's a lot better than being proven guilty of it (via admission or otherwise).

    41. Re:Can someone link the report? by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      Pleading “no contest” is not the same as pleading guilty, fwiw. At least, it isn’t in the US – I have no idea whether or not Sweden has similar provisions.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    42. Re:Can someone link the report? by Motard · · Score: 1

      I don't know about Swedish law, but I believe that in the US you can plead No Contest in which you don't admit anything, but agree to pay the piper and not defend yourself.

      Assange himself said he believed the US had a secret indictment on him. So if he wants to avoid extradition, he should get himself out of government hands. If he were just go to Sweden and answer their questions, he'd likely not be under house arrest.

    43. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has there ever been a parallel, in all history, whereby interpol would get so involved in something that is punishable by an amount slightly more than a traffic ticket?

      Actually, this is the first time Interpol has ever been involved in a rape case.

    44. Re:Can someone link the report? by Magada · · Score: 1

      I am undoing moderation to do this but...

      The website of the Swedish prosecutors contains a statement from Marianne Ny alongside some carefully-chosen facts about how and when someone could be extradited from Sweden to the USA . Apparently it can't be done if the UK doesn't agree to it as well.

      --
      Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
    45. Re:Can someone link the report? by Sanat · · Score: 1

      Actually Sweden wishes to become the 51st state and if they play their cards just right then it will be a done deal.

      This is just the first step as America grows even more powerful... Who will be number 52? Spain??? Germany??? Cuba???

      This is all in the reports yet to be leaked and even Assange is reluctant to let that secret out.

      --
      And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make
    46. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is nonsense being peddled by Assange's lawyers (like a lot of the rumors regarding the case). Under the European Arrest Warrant Act, the country that surrenders him (the UK in this case) has to consent to any attempts to extradite him to a 3rd country outside of the EU

    47. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe he was sleeping while it happened.

    48. Re:Can someone link the report? by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      OK, +1 informative...

      --
      No sig today...
    49. Re:Can someone link the report? by Doomdark · · Score: 1

      I think it is bit more than that, given that newspapers can be sued, and in case of UK, succesfully so. Meaning that if it was found that journalist fabricated claims of having read said document(s), paper in question would be liable for damages if sued. I agree in that publishing a copy would be more credible, but I would not completely discount article just due to lack of such disclosure.

      --
      I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
    50. Re:Can someone link the report? by MarcQuadra · · Score: 1

      Didn't you hear? They beat him up while he was sleeping.

      --
      "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
    51. Re:Can someone link the report? by nomadic · · Score: 1

      Evidence. Not conjecture, "everyone knows" watercooler discourse, or speculation. Evidence.

    52. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interpol has been used to send and enforce $100 speeding tickets. Swiss government still get speeding tickets from Sweden through Interpol. The Swiss just throw them in the trash.

    53. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know about "a long way from". I'm going to guess you are also one who criticizes wikileaks sharing information as being irresponsible? Ironic how that same information is information that can bring us from "a long way from" to "pretty damn sure", but the person (you) who likes to point out the difference is the same one opposing evidence that bridges the difference.

    54. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It is a long way from something being "not very far fetched" to that same something being "very clearly" so."

      Sure, but that goes either way.

    55. Re:Can someone link the report? by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      okay, this goes both ways then. where's the evidence of anything assange has done? What crime has been committed?

      evidence, not conjecture, watercooler, or speculation.

    56. Re:Can someone link the report? by Scrameustache · · Score: 2

      Do you have any evidence to suggest that the U.S. government has any involvement in this Swedish case?

      They're holding him in Britain while the justice department figures out a way to drum up charges to have him extradited to United States. Furthermore the leaked U.S. diplomatic cables show evidence of the U.S. tampering with foreign justice systems through secret political pressure.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    57. Re:Can someone link the report? by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      It is a long way from something being "not very far fetched" to that same something being "very clearly" so. Of course, you also point out a reason that the Swedish government might want to string up Julian Assange without any pressure from the U.S. government.

      Why is the British Crown insisting on refusing bail and holding in solitary confinement a man wanted for questions over improper use of condoms in Sweden? Remember that he has been charged with no crimes, they only want to question him. He was held 9 days in conditions that amount to torture, he's been under electronic and effective watch by police at every moment since the inhumane conditions were lifted, but that's not enough for questions?

      Can you prove that any other suspected cases of sexual misconduct has resulted in this level of action? Because the women's rights organizations are all pretty certain this is a world's first.

      It's impossible, not merely unlikely, that this extraordinary judicial action is the natural result of an ordinary investigation about a banal case of unwanted ejaculate. To say otherwise is an extraordinary claim.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    58. Re:Can someone link the report? by horza · · Score: 1

      Even stranger is after Sweden opposed bail, and then both Sweden and the British prosecution stated Sweden were appealing against the bail, suddenly Sweden claims they it wasn't them appealing against bail at all. Then the British prosecution admitted they were trying to incarcerate Assange in solitary confinement when Sweden seemed quite happy for him to be released on bail. The two countries are so busy tripping over themselves to curry favour with the US they appear to be getting a little confused as to which side of the law they are supposed to be on.

      Phillip.

    59. Re:Can someone link the report? by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

      Would you really plead "no contest" to a sexual charge? Really? I mean even if you are guilty, you take the chance to be found not guilty because of the stigma associated.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    60. Re:Can someone link the report? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      You have successfully made the case for this being unusual. However, you have failed to show how this means that the U.S. is playing a role. Again, there is a distinct difference between "possibly" and "very clearly".
      Someone else has already posted a comment that shows that the Swedish government has sufficient reason to be out to get Julian Assange without any U.S. pressure. That doesn't mean that the U.S. didn't apply pressure in this case. It just means that there is insufficient evidence to say it "very clearly" did (or at least, I have yet to see such evidence).

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    61. Re:Can someone link the report? by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

      Actually Sweden wishes to become the 51st state

      Fine with me, as long as the US doesn't screw around with how they make snus. I don't mind having to order overseas, but I will be damned if I will be forced to consume American style snus....blech. I would go back to smoking first.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    62. Re:Can someone link the report? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      That's fascinating. "I don't want to deny it" would be interpreted in the UK as a tacit admission of guilt, as any reasonable person should seek to defend themselves.

      That the justice system makes it easier to say, "Sod it, give me the fine" is a flaw in the justice system :(

    63. Re:Can someone link the report? by pipatron · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It gets even more hilarious when you compare this case with the case of Joachim Posener, once described as Sweden's most wanted man, suspect of running off with a large amount of stolen money and hiding abroad for a decade. He was later questioned at a Swedish embassy in Belgium. No problems there.

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    64. Re:Can someone link the report? by pipatron · · Score: 2

      The crime was committed on Swedish water, so apparently it's the Swedes that are supposed to prosecute. The guys even confessed. The prosecutor, when pressured by the journalists about extradition, is quoted saying that he dropped the case because he can't get hold of the two Irish guys, and that they save extraditions for serious crimes like murder.

      (horrible swedish tabloid with an image from the surveillance camera: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article8031457.ab)

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    65. Re:Can someone link the report? by pipatron · · Score: 1

      Heh, they actually beat him unconscious first, then came back later to finish up the job. I suppose the last kicks to his face could be disregarded then, since he couldn't actually tell them to stop. :P

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    66. Re:Can someone link the report? by nomadic · · Score: 1

      And that's why he should be presumed innocent until he's convicted. But by that logic as well, you can't just assume the US is driving this simply because you think they have motive.

    67. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One very important difference. To be allowed to leave Sweden, Assange most have accepted conditions that he later broke. I'm quite sure that the rapes et.c. was not what made Sweden issue an international arrest warrant, what triggered the action was that he broke the conditions for his release. His Swedish lawyer must have informed him what such actions would lead to (or he would have neglected his duties), so Assange can't blame ignorance either.

      If the Swedish justice system didn't react with all means it got when conditions for a release are broken, to discourage others from doing the same, then the Swedish legal system instead would have to "punish" suspects prematurely before they are found guilty of anything, by keeping them under arrest and perhaps institute a bail system. Putting aside the ethical aspects of punishing (possibly innocent) suspects by putting them in arrest, all such existing system have already been proven to be more ineffective then the Swedish system (there are countries with systems that are more effective, but they give even more leeway to suspects in a crime investigation then the Swedish one). Even though putting suspects in arrest on lesser grounds could perhaps be accepted by the Swedish public, bail systems are always very unfair and I don't think they could ever be politically accepted in Sweden (and they are almost totally ineffective, it is an enigma that any country have a bail system).

      The Irish musicians was never hold by Swedish police, they where on a boat from Sweden to Finland on Swedish water and was on arrival to Finland released by Finnish police. The only crime they committed was the beating, they have never obstructed justice.

    68. Re:Can someone link the report? by Sanat · · Score: 1

      I have a couple of friends who use snus here in the states. So far it has not been outlawed here like in Europe.

      Is the snus here in the states the same as you have there in Sweden?

      --
      And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make
    69. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the benefits for the US citizens to include the Sweden as the 51st state would be the availability of dildos and other stimulation devices at the drug and department stores in that state. Also, which of the other states can say they have an actual king, except maybe Tennessee? If the White House put together a sophisticated dance party and dignified reception for the eve of the 4th of July or some other appropriate holiday, would those openly gay government members and other dignitaries be able bring their significant others in the ball like in Sweden? Many Swedes speak excellent English so the language issues would be minimal. Also now, as a part of Europe, the US could join the Council of Europe with a good conscience with the benefit of the creation of an utterly confusing constitutional crisis requiring wide national consultations and meaningful work for numerous legal consultants, politicians and journalists, all in the name of enhancing the economy.

      And most importantly for me, I actually could make a day trip to the US by simply using a boat. I support this great initiative!

    70. Re:Can someone link the report? by Sanat · · Score: 1

      I am pretty sure that more adjustment (probably a lot more) would be required by the Americans as opposed to the Swedish population. I can just see the good ole boys...

      Having the benefit of hanging out with individuals from Sweden has taught me about the narrow mindedness of the USA. Also having lived in Australia for years has also widened my grasp of differences that most Americans are not aware of even existing leave alone accepting the differences.

      For you sir... I hope this does happen. My ancestors arrived by boat... maybe you can too!

      --
      And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make
    71. Re:Can someone link the report? by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      You have successfully made the case for this being unusual. However, you have failed to show how this means that the U.S. is playing a role.

      Joe Lieberman stating that the U.S. intends to seek extradition from the U.K. shows the U.S. is an active participant in this kangaroo court. The fact that the accusations occurred right when he was seeking asylum in Sweden to protect himself from the United States who have been getting more and more rabid about denying him freedom of the press, and that the accusations were cited as reason to deny him residency in Sweden add to my conviction. I think the U.S. representative made it confidentially clear that it would be best for Sweden if they were to find a reason to keep that guy from getting their protection. And now they're milking it so he can be held while the U.S. figures out some loophole with which to extradite him to their torture chambers.

      But if you want actual proof, then no, that's not been leaked yet. Sometimes gotta wait decades for the truth to come out, go read the leaked cables, and declassified CIA docs, it's full of this type of behavior. It's not hypothetical that the U.S. government acts this way, it's a document pattern of behavior; they've been caught with their pants down and they're after the guy who told everyone.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    72. Re:Can someone link the report? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Joe Lieberman stating that the U.S. intends to seek extradition from the U.K. does not show the U.S. is an active participant. Joe Lieberman does not work in the Administration, let alone the Justice Department or the State Department (the two Departments that would be involved with an extradition request).
      The U.S. might be playing a role, but the evidence does not support "very clearly". The evidence supports the suspicion that the U.S. is involved, but not the certainty.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    73. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not technically correct, they are chasing several people on rape charges. Those people tend to be African dictators also accused of genocide, but they do persue rape charges.

    74. Re:Can someone link the report? by Builder · · Score: 1

      I'm starting to get a little peeved at having to repost this. WHY should Assange go BACK to Sweden on his own dime ?

      He was there. He cooperated fully. He was told it was all over and done with and he was told BY the prosecutor that he could leave the country. So he did.

      When they FINALLY released a valid warrant for him, he immediately handed himself in to the police.

      All of that looks like honourable behaviour on his part to me. And it looks like slimy as shit behaviour on the part of the Swedish justice system. File charges, drop charges, amend and refile charges, drop all charges, let him go, drag him in, let him go, drag him back.

      There's a point at which you start being difficult with authority and that point is when they start to harass you.

    75. Re:Can someone link the report? by Dabido · · Score: 1

      I read it was leaked to the Guardian Newspaper. It wasn't leaked to the public which is why I doubt we'll see a link any time soon. (Unless someone leaks it again and leaks it to the public).

      --
      Sure enough, the cow costume was hanging up next to the superhero outfit and sailors uniform. (S,Spud)
    76. Re:Can someone link the report? by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

      Is the snus here in the states the same as you have there in Sweden?

      I'm in the states :) I have been ordering it direct from snuscentral.com for a long time. I don't do Camel or RJ snus. Ok, I tried them, sugar coated crap. Now Swedish Match is actually making much of the General line in the USA for local consumption, but I live in a small town that doesn't have a snus seller, so have to get it shipped UPS. Personally like General portion and Taboca, mixing it up with LD Black, Grovsnus, Ettan, Tre Ankare, etc. Its a bitch to have to ship from Sweden, but it is still better than US snus.

      You may already know that Sweden actually has very strict laws regarding snus, insuring the purity of the added ingredients (ie: must be food grade) and I was just saying I would hate seeing the American tobacco companies pay off Congress to lower those standards if they became the 51st state. Not to worry, it would never, ever, ever happen. Sweds are pretty hard headed and independent folks like us yanks, and won't even switch to the Euro.

      And snus is outlawed in portions of Europe, although US dip tobacco is legal, and it has been proven that dip tobacco is on the order of 10x to 50x more dangerous than snus. Actually, the incidence of cancer for snus users is almost trivial, with virtually no difference in oral cancer than people who use no tobacco.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    77. Re:Can someone link the report? by DrBoumBoum · · Score: 1

      He said no but meant yes.

    78. Re:Can someone link the report? by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      The evidence supports the suspicion that the U.S. is involved, but not the certainty.

      Well, you're a stickler for "beyond any reasonable doubts", can't fault you for that.

      But what I see is Bart Simpson saying "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything". I know Bart did it even if I haven't found the hard evidence yet.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    79. Re:Can someone link the report? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      I am a stickler that if you say "very clearly" you have evidence to back it up. If the original poster had expressed their opinion in less absolutist language, I would have had no problem with that. There is reason to believe that the U.S. government would be harrassing Julian Assange. However, reasonable people can conclude that they are not doing so in this particular case since the Swedish government has sufficient motive to be after him all on their own.
      The OP's phrasing came across as if they felt that reasonable people could not possibly disagree with his/her conclusion.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    80. Re:Can someone link the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The stigma associated with a sex charge is fairly well dissociated from the outcome. Being found "not guilty" is little consolation for what you've been put through and will continue to face just as a result of the charge being made, despite being found not guilty.

    81. Re:Can someone link the report? by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      "I don't want to deny it" would be interpreted in the UK as a tacit admission of guilt, as any reasonable person should seek to defend themselves.

      They are innocent until proven guilty, and failing to come up to your expectations of the what a “reasonable” person would do to defend him/her self is not proof of guilt.

      It’s too subjective. How much money, time, and effort should a “reasonable” person expend trying to defend themselves against trumped-up charges when they know that the deck is stacked against them?

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    82. Re:Can someone link the report? by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      To be allowed to leave Sweden, Assange most have accepted conditions that he later broke.

      Must he have? That assumption is false.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    83. Re:Can someone link the report? by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      There is reason to believe that the U.S. government would be harrassing Julian Assange. However, reasonable people can conclude that they are not doing so in this particular case since the Swedish government has sufficient motive to be after him all on their own.

      Nope. No reasonable people can come to that conclusion: only people's who's judgment is clouded by their feelings.

      They are not going after him all on their own; they had him and let him go; someone in the capital reopened the case just when the cables started going public. That's one hell of a coincidence to dismiss.

      You have to allow yourself a huge bias to think the Swedes are more likely to be motivated independently to act against Assange than to allow that the government that as been putting pressure on all fronts on Assange has put pressure on that front too.

      You want to be stickler for "beyond a reasonable doubt" when it comes to the culpability of the U.S.? You should want proof beyonf a reasonable doubt that the Swedes are autonomous in this action.

      Read. the fucking. cables. THIS is the documented behavior of the U.S., it's not a hypothetical "they could do this someday", it's a very real "they've been doing this over and over for years". Pressuring other countries behind the scene, in secret.

      No longer in secret, which is why they're so pissed: You might stop systematically assuming that the U.S. doesn't do what they do.
      They want you to keep that warm fuzzy feeling you have about them being Good Guys TM, that feeling that blinds you to the VERY CLEAR signs of their involvement.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    84. Re:Can someone link the report? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Yeah, when it came out in the cables that the Swedish government was working more closely with the U.S. government than they would like to admit. You don't think that gives the Swedish government motive to act without any additional pressure?
      As to me thinking that the U.S. government is the good guys, no such thing. I just don't think they are competent enough to orchestrate this. Personally, I'm not sure why Julian Assange is still walking around.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    85. Re:Can someone link the report? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      All of it, as otherwise they're supporting a system where trumped up charges and stacked decks are acceptable.

      I'm genuinely confused that you think failing to deny rape and receiving punishment would be an acceptable outcome for a man that up until now has claimed his innocence.

    86. Re:Can someone link the report? by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      All of it, as otherwise they're supporting a system where trumped up charges and stacked decks are acceptable.

      That’s not bad in principle, but some people live in the real world and would like to still have a life to return to afterward. That doesn’t make them guilty.

      I'm genuinely confused that you think failing to deny rape and receiving punishment would be an acceptable outcome for a man that up until now has claimed his innocence.

      Assange wouldn’t, I’m sure. But that’s because he’s willing to be a martyr to his cause.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    87. Re:Can someone link the report? by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      As to me thinking that the U.S. government is the good guys, no such thing. I just don't think they are competent enough to orchestrate this.

      They can orchestrate a golf game on the moon... on. the. moon.

      Personally, I'm not sure why Julian Assange is still walking around.

      Because they're sophisticated enough to understand that creating a martyr is not the way to neutralize a popular ideological opponent; there are better ways.

      You can attack their reputation, you can lock them up on trumped up charges, you can subject them to stresses that would break any man's will, all of it to turn them into something people will look down on with disgust.
      If you nail them to a cross in their prime, they could still be talked about two thousand years later. If you gun them down in south america, their face could still be on t-shirts decades later.
      You learn from your mistakes, you evolve.

      The U.S. is not a blundering buffoon, it's a slick con man. Reexamine your assumptions, you may see events that you thought were stupid were actually Machiavellian, if you just realize that the stated goal is not the real goal.

      In this instance, the goal isn't to protect Swedish women from the evils of unwanted semen, the goal is to neutralize a disruptive agent. The actions don't fit the stated goal, so you must infer the real goals from what would fit these circumstances. Check the facts, see which is most likely.

      Suggested reading: The Art of War.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    88. Re:Can someone link the report? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Well, you appear to think that Julian Assange is in the same class as Che Guevera. I don't think Julian is anywhere near that evil.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    89. Re:Can someone link the report? by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

      For the average person, having to put "Yes I have been arrested, for sexual charges, but I was found not guilty" on a job application is a guarantee to not get the job, regardless of any laws. There is always the nagging doubt in the interviewer, wondering HOW they were found not guilty? Technicality? Not quite enough evidence? And the idea that only bad people would put themselves in a position to even be charged with a sex crime. No, for the average Joe, your career pretty much gets a death sentence.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
  3. I wont believe it... by bsDaemon · · Score: 1

    ... until I see it on Wikileaks.ch!

  4. Its not on wikileaks so by metalmaster · · Score: 1

    it must not be that important.

    1. Re:Its not on wikileaks so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its not on wikileaks so it must not be related to the US government.

      There, fixed that for you.

    2. Re:Its not on wikileaks so by Tr3vin · · Score: 1

      Maybe only the US government is important.

      We're number one! We're number one!

  5. If only... by TheL0ser · · Score: 5, Funny

    If only there was some internet repository where leaks of this kind could be shared. It could even be made into a wiki, for easier access.

    1. Re:If only... by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      Most countries have laws against public comment by the defendant during a trial. Posting the police report could get him arrested on a legitimate charge.

    2. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most countries have laws against public comment by the defendant during a trial. Posting the police report could get him arrested on a legitimate charge.

      Posting leaked state secrets, on the other hand, is perfectly legal? What?

    3. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know not of what trial you speak? Or, indeed of what charges? Or what sort of comment publishing an other's words are?

    4. Re:If only... by The+Wild+Norseman · · Score: 1

      Most countries have laws against public comment by the defendant during a trial. Posting the police report could get him arrested on a legitimate charge.

      And which trial is that, precisely? And even during his trial, wouldn't the government have to, you know, have evidence that *he* leaked the police report in order to (most likely) obtain a mistrial?

      --
      "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
    5. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1

  6. the Julian assange by vgerclover · · Score: 1

    the Julian assange

    What the hell is an assange, and why is there only one? Any relation with the Julian calendar?

    1. Re:the Julian assange by Abstrackt · · Score: 5, Funny

      People these days use the Gregorian assange.

      --
      They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
    2. Re:the Julian assange by airfoobar · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's singe, you baboon.

    3. Re:the Julian assange by courteaudotbiz · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sorry, but no. "A monkey", in French, is "Un singe". If you want something funny with French and English mixing with Julian Assange's name:

      Ass: you know what this means
      Ange: means "Angel" in French.

      So Julian Assange would be "Julian Angel Ass"

    4. Re:the Julian assange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      phonetically though it's close enough

    5. Re:the Julian assange by fritsd · · Score: 3, Funny

      Aha, and that in turn explains the two Swedish women...

      --
      To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
    6. Re:the Julian assange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Makes sense, angles are kind of known for their creepy white hair and backlighting, giving them that halo-aura. Julian naturally has creepy white hair. I think that's enough evidence.

    7. Re:the Julian assange by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      You sir, are lying your ass off. I never once saw an angle in Geometry class with white hair. Backlighting yes, creepy white hair no.

    8. Re:the Julian assange by mcneely.mike · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but no.

      Julian Assange would be "Julian Ass Angel"
      FTFY!

      --
      soylentnews.org Go there to enjoy the people!
  7. Not on wikileaks? by MikeMo · · Score: 2, Funny
    Shouldn't Assange have already posted it? There isn't any hypocrisy here, is there?

    I'm not trolling -- I mean, seriously?

    1. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe Assange didn't have access to the report?

    2. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Halo1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Do you seriously not see any difference between the privacy of an individual and the transparency of government/corporate dealings?

      --
      Donate free food here
    3. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't Assange have already posted it? There isn't any hypocrisy here, is there?

      I'm not trolling -- I mean, seriously?

      since its part of an active investigation he might be legally obligated not to put it on wikileaks. I know in many high profile cases the parties involved are not allowed to talk about it. That doesn't mean hes not the source of the leak still however.....

    4. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is good for one is good for the other.

    5. Re:Not on wikileaks? by thijsh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed, this fallacy keeps popping up. If I commit severe crimes and attempt to cover it up you have the right, and I would even dare to say *duty*, to violate my privacy for justice. People and governments alike may keep some things hidden, but there is a limit to both.

    6. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Umm, the leaked documents ARE government documents, so based on your government/personal criteria they are fair game. Just because they cause embarrasment and discomfort (Who wants to be know as a violent sexual predator who is lousy in bed? Not our boy, Julian, apparently.) they should not be withheld. In fact, the Wikileaks position has been that even if their release causes death, government "secrets" should be published.

    7. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And shouldn't the US government be twisting laws to try to prosecute whoever leaked the police report? Or is it up to the Swedish police to twist some laws?

    8. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The dude believes in total transparency, if its good for the State Department it should be good enough for Assange.

    9. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Motard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Is this not a government document?

    10. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Beerdood · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wikileaks doesn't divulge personal private information of an individual's sex affairs. Dealings between government and corporations and whatnot.

      This would be hypocritical if wikileaks leaked something like Tiger Woods' sex messages to his mistress or something along the lines of that. Plenty of sites posted that information, and possibly lots of trashy tabloids and gossip magazines - but wikileaks did not.

      --
      Global warming and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking number of pirates - Gospel of the FSM
    11. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when is Assange a government?

    12. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wikileaks themselves didn't seem to mind, when they leaked the membership list of the BNP.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    13. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      1. He was legally obligated not to put the other documents on WikiLeaks. Why grow a conscience now?
      2. Both he and the /. crowd insist on maintaining this shaky assertion that "WikiLeaks is not just Julian Assange" (despite all appearances to the contrary, highly supported by the actions of Mr. Assange himself). Let someone else put it up.
    14. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 0, Troll

      Wikileaks doesn't divulge personal private information of an individual's sex affairs.

      Get a grip on reality. They DO divulge personal private information which can get informants and their families killed. Wikileaks, to date, has done so TWICE ON A MASSIVE SCALE. Given an option, I'm sure the informants would rather have their bedroom secretes released rather than the fact they informed on murderers.

    15. Re:Not on wikileaks? by khallow · · Score: 1

      Do you seriously not see any difference between the privacy of an individual and the transparency of government/corporate dealings?

      I consider a publicly know individual equivalent to a corporation when it comes to expectations of privacy. Expectations of privacy make no sense when discussing a government.

    16. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Posting Anon as already modded.

      Yes, there's a huge difference between private people and public organisations. However, Assange already crossed the line with the BNP membership list that got posted through Wikileaks, which prompted a huge amount of personal harrassment of individuals and families.

      You may say "their fault for joining a distasteful organisation", but the Human Rights charter states that everybody has a freedom of association with any legal political party, and a freedom of thought. Which means you may not like what someone thinks, but if it's legal, you need to respect their view (or at least ignore it; your choice). You don't have the right to break the data protection laws, or the human rights laws to score a political point. And you certainly don't get to use harrassment as a weapon..

      By all means publish and leak the activities of the BNP which are probably very shady (like all political parties really), but to remain seen as even slightly impartial, you do not publish the names and addresses of individuals unless you can prove they were guilty of some misdemeanor. After that debacle, I lost a huge amount of respect for Wikileaks, and viewed them as cavalier, spiteful, and with a strong left wing agenda (The opposite of the RedWatch of old).

      Having crossed the line himself to the personal level, he gets no sympathy from me. And so far, I've not seen his address published, so he's one step better than the BNP members he outed.

    17. Re:Not on wikileaks? by dintech · · Score: 0, Troll

      Clearly some time before you, Mr Fox News.

    18. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikileaks doesn't divulge personal private information of an individual's sex affairs.

      Get a grip on reality. They DO divulge personal private information which can get informants and their families killed. Wikileaks, to date, has done so TWICE ON A MASSIVE SCALE. Given an option, I'm sure the informants would rather have their bedroom secretes released rather than the fact they informed on murderers.

      [citation needed]

    19. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you seriously think a person has an expectation that criminal charges against him will be kept secret?

      No. Fuck off.

    20. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good question.

      How many other documents from individual court cases appear on Wikileaks? If Wikileaks has a long history of trying to acquire documents from notable court cases and posting them while the cases are still in progress, then, yes, there would be hypocrisy here.

      However, I don't think Wikileaks is known for tracking criminal or civil court cases while they are in progress. The notable leaks that have been reported are things like military memos and diplomatic cables, yes?

      It is entirely possible that Wikileaks isn't hosting this because this isn't the sort of document they normally deal in, or they haven't posted it yet because (like the diplomatic cables and military documents) they haven't had time to edit names and other identifiable information out of them prior to release, as is their habit.

      Actually, posting this to Wikileaks just because it's about the site's founder would be hypocrisy, wouldn't it?

    21. Re:Not on wikileaks? by john82 · · Score: 0

      Karma's a bitch, ain't it?

    22. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but if he believes he is innocent and him releasing documents would cause him more legal trouble, then its just a bad idea. And not in anybody's best interest. An innocent man(Idk if he is or not) shouldn't have to cause himself more legal trouble.

    23. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Rary · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Shouldn't Assange have already posted it? There isn't any hypocrisy here, is there?

      No, because this is not at all the kind of document that WikiLeaks posts. Their primary interest is stated as:

      ...exposing oppressive regimes in Asia, the former Soviet bloc, Sub-Saharan Africa and the Middle East, but we also expect to be of assistance to people of all regions who wish to reveal unethical behaviour in their governments and corporations.

      Contrary to popular belief, WikiLeaks is not about revealing any information that anyone might ever try to hide. WikiLeaks is about revealing unethical government/corporate behaviour.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    24. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wikileaks themselves didn't seem to mind, when they leaked the membership list of the BNP.

      Its illegal to be a BNP member and hold certain jobs with the UK government and leaking that list exposed some lawbreakers in the government.
      I've got a problem with those laws, but at least they are public laws.

      On the other hand, wikileaks leaked their own donors list. As far as I know its not illegal to donate to wikileaks, even if mastercard, visa, paypal and BoA say otherwise, so maybe you do have a point.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    25. Re:Not on wikileaks? by hubie · · Score: 1

      Are you suggesting that if there is a discussion within some State Department cables that a foreign diplomat or head of state is having an affair, and with whom, that Wikileaks will edit that out?

    26. Re:Not on wikileaks? by geminidomino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Says the anonymous coward....

    27. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Abcd1234 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do you seriously not see any difference between the privacy of an individual and the transparency of government/corporate dealings?

      A police investigation *isn't* "government dealings"?

    28. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 0

      Clearly some time before you, Mr Fox News.

      My source is Mr. Julian Assange. Check out my other post which links to anther post, which has a link to a YouTube documentary in which Julian talks in detail. "Killing people is fun." - Jullian Assange My other post properly frames the context.

    29. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or when they leaked Palin's E-Mails. Or a list of people donating to Wikileaks. This is a government document. I don't see how this is a worse violation of privacy than some other stuff they published.

    30. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Get a grip on reality. They DO divulge personal private information which can get informants and their families killed.

      So presumably there are loads of sources out there pointing to the people who have been killed. Care to point to one or two?

      Could you also explain why even the DoD have stated that the leaks did not endanger humint sources?

    31. Re:Not on wikileaks? by ubermiester · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You mean documents should not be released based on the whims of the individuals but should instead be based on a reasoned and sensible analysis of what's being released and the impact on the people(s) involved?

      And of course unintended consequences are nothing to worry about because Assange knows what he's doing and has thought out all the implications and we can trust that no one else will follow his lead?

      You're saying this is not a PR war between Assange and the US that has little or nothing to do with better govt?

      I guess I must have been mistaken after all.

    32. Re:Not on wikileaks? by pipatron · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are no charges against him, yet.

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    33. Re:Not on wikileaks? by corbettw · · Score: 2, Informative

      The only military video I've seen on Wikileaks was not misrepresented, at all. It is clear from the video and the conversations in it that the people firing the guns on the helicopter simply did not care if their targets were valid or not. They were excited at the prospect of killing people and didn't care about anything else.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    34. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Logic+Worshipper · · Score: 1

      Maybe he did. The defense could have leaked it as easily as the prosecution. It doesn't make him look that bad, (except in bed). The biggest loser from the post is Assange's sex life, as it's now in international news that's he's a dud root, and a douche to the women he sleeps with. Yeah, he'll have an easy time getting laid from here on out. But it doesn't really hurt the case, it might even end up helping him.

    35. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, when a US government official went over the leaks, he concluded that there was embarrassing stuff in there, but said there wasn't really anything that put anyone in danger. So I should believe what you are saying (as I am sure you have read over every one of the leaks) and not the US government official?

    36. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [citation needed]

      Are you fucking stupid? Have you not read anything? This is common knowledge. Anyone who isn't a complete idiot, living is absolute isolation, knows they've released this information. They've even had press conferences specifically discussing the fact they outted thousands of innocent civilians; to which Julian basically says, the end justifies the means - but only when its me and no one else. All of this has only been in the news in some form, almost every day for the least several months.

      This is a great example of why, "citation needed", almost always means, "I'm a fucking idiot and too lazy to think for myself or independently learn." Holy shit your ignorance is shameful.

    37. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Lashat · · Score: 1

      If I had mod points I would mod this up.

      --
      For every benefit you receive a tax is levied. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
    38. Re:Not on wikileaks? by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      Ah, but there is always the risk that for both personal and government matters that someone will decide to take any semblance of privacy away. For their own ego purposes.

      Think of your credit card statement. What possible point would there be to publishing this? Well, if I did it it would be to prove to everyone that I, and perhaps I alone, had the power to access such things. Who knows who might be next? The fact that it might cause you irrepairable harm would be beside the point.

      These days, nobody has any "right" to any sort of privacy other than that which is granted them by potential leakers. Which isn't much. You can hope that your privacy will not be violated because you are but a simple cog in the great machine and your neighbor will instead be chosen. Faint hope it may be, but it is all you have.

    39. Re:Not on wikileaks? by chispito · · Score: 1

      Sure I see the difference. Some of the diplomatic cables released hurt a lot more people than just one Australian pervert.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    40. Re:Not on wikileaks? by nstlgc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Informants names are redacted.
      The idea that diplomacy and transparancy are mutually exclusive is a cop-out.
      The misrepresentation is debatable.

      At what point are you going to stop being a propagandists tool?
      Right back at you, sir.

      --
      I'm Rocco. I'm the +5 Funny man.
    41. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am sure the former professor from Ball State University in Indiana would disagree. Information on his sexual exploits WAS in fact leaked by Assange.

      Have a nice day.

    42. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you provide a source to verify this statement?

    43. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 0

      Please re-read. You clearly didn't not understand what you read. The context is that private information should not be disclosed, but only when it pertains to Julian Assanage. Where I said:

      They DO divulge personal private information which can get informants and their families killed.

      You then go on about idiotic stuff which was never said in an attempt to completely ignore the fact that Julian Assanage, himself, proves he's hypocritical - as well as others who blindly support his hypocrisy by such statements that his privacy is somehow different from other's privacy, whereby it actually matters far, far more.

    44. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many of them were murdered after a wikileaks leak? I want source and proof that wikileaks was the cause, thanks.

    45. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Motard · · Score: 2

      How do I know you haven't committed severe crimes and covered them up? We'd better violate your privacy and put everything up on the web so we can all see. How can anyone trust you otherwise?

    46. Re:Not on wikileaks? by pipatron · · Score: 1

      Yet nothing has happened to these allegedly threatened civilians. Do you think the U.S. government would keep silent if something did happen to them, or if someone was threatened?

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    47. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Abcd1234 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The only military video I've seen on Wikileaks was not misrepresented, at all.

      Then you don't remember the original sequence of events. The original video *was* misrepresented, in that it was edited to remove large portions of the video... it wasn't until later that the full, unedited version was provided.

      Of course, you'd think, in "leaking" something, you'd just leak the whole thing and be done with it. Not so for Wikileaks...

    48. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 0, Troll

      Informants names are redacted.

      Bullshit. That's a complete lie. Informant's names were absolutely not redacted in the first massive release. The names were redacted in the second release ONLY because everyone believed it was wrong to do what he did the first time. And for the record, after the second release, in an interview, he was unrepentant about the disclosures on the first release, basically saying the end justifies the means.

      At what point are you going to stop being a propagandists tool?
      Right back at you, sir.

      So now stating the COMPLETE facts makes me a propagandist tool? What an ignorant tool you are.

      Read my other post, which provides a link to the source material. But I'm sure you'll still refuse to apologize, or even admit you're a tool, even though the source is Julian Assange himself.

    49. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hmmm. divulging that one of the political aids has a brain tumor that may not be treatable and another is suspected of having HIV, seems to be both personal and private information. In addition, do you think that if a congressman or prime minister was accused of these charges that Wikileaks would not release it? The reason Wikileaks didn't release a story about Tiger Woods is because, if you aren't the first to release it, then it's not really a leak, is it?

      Wikileaks can serve a noble purpose, and I believe they do, however, they can just as easily server other purposes. There are always consequences for one's actions and what is noble for one person may not be for another. Wikileaks tries and takes the approach that they are just releasing information and it is up to the readers or others to determine what to do with it. However, that is a pretty naive attitude to take when real people's lives are involved.

      Assange is upset that his personal information regarding the alleged sexual misconduct got released. I imagine the same can be said for anyone arrested of DWI or any criminal charges. Yes, they may be innocent until proven guilty (in the US, anyway), but the arrest and leveling of charges are public and put in the local newspaper. However, what he has done, through Wikileaks is even more insidious - if you had cancer, or were gay, or had HIV, how would you feel if your friends, family, coworkers, the whole damn world found out about it from something like Wikileaks, just because you happen to be associated with some government. I'm sure the world is a much better place knowing that some aide, whatever her name is, will be spending her last Christmas with her family as she isn't expected to live another year. But then, Wikileaks doesn't divulge personal private information of individuals, so I guess, somebody else did under their name.

    50. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you seriously not see any difference between the privacy of an individual and the transparency of government/corporate dealings?

      I don't see any difference. In the US, the the gov't is the people.

    51. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you HAVEN'T committed a severe crime, though, do we have the duty to violate your privacy to make sure? Because we can either presume innocence or we can violate privacy for great justice; we can't do both.

    52. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Motard · · Score: 5, Informative

      I don't know if you've watched the full video, or just Assange's edit of it. If you watched the full one you know that at several points they asked for clearance to fire, and spent some time trying to figure the situation out.

    53. Re:Not on wikileaks? by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 2

      So let's say they didn't redact names in the first release. I recall the Pentagon itself finding that nobody had been harmed as a result of them, and I'm sure they looked pretty damn hard!

    54. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Man - i just followed that link and read you rantings. WTF? You owe two minutes of life back. You're an idiot.

    55. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not only was the video misrepresented, it was edited.

      The facts are:
      o Children are not uncommonly shooting at soldiers. Children commonly have weapons in hand by the age or six.

      o Vans are commonly used to take terrorists and weapons from the scene. All too often, "civilian deaths" are misreported because their weapons were taken before soldiers can arrive to secure the area. That's why the had to obtain permission to engage the van - and got it.

      o The reaction you saw is in fact, the common reaction of morale people forced to kill others. Its extremely well documented. Those who don't act as such, commonly have extreme mental health issues as a result of not venting with such bravado.

      o In a war zone, if you are seen with others who have weapons, YOU ARE A LEGAL TARGET. In this case, HE WAS A LEGAL TARGET.

      o The screens in the Apache are actually fairly small. Contrary to comments by others, the resolution is actually fairly poor. Cobra's actually have far better resolution - especially at night (not a factor here). Poor resolution in combination with a small screen in combination with the footage which was specifically edited out means Wikileaks was purposely pushing an anti-war, anti-American agenda via world class propaganda.

      The above combined with the Average ignorance for war, editing, lies, so on and so on, they created a massive reaction. The simple fact is, if you believe the story provided by Julian Assange, for that specific video, you are now a propagandist's tool. The fact is, he lied to you and used you.

    56. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikileaks hasn't shown any particular restraint in posting personal information of controversial people or NGOs.

      For example:
      An email message database of controversial Holocaust Historian David Irving: http://mirror.wikileaks.info/wiki/Controversial_holocaust_historian_David_Irving_emails,_Nov_2009/
      The audited accounts of a church/cult: http://mirror.wikileaks.info/wiki/Living_Church_of_God_Sri_Lanka_Audited_Accounts,_31_Mar_2006/index.html
      A bankruptcy filing by a Texas Congressional Candidate: http://mirror.wikileaks.info/wiki/Texas_GOP_Congressional_Candidate_Jeff_Cherry_bankruptcy_record,_2003/index.html
      A seemingly indiscriminate dump of half a million text pager intercepts from 9/11: http://mirror.wikileaks.info/wiki/911

      Based on all that, it certainly seems like a confidental police complaint against a person as controversial as Julian Assange would be suitable material for Wikileaks.

      BTW - They did even jump on the Tiger Woods bandwagon, although in the form of publishing a court order.

    57. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's right there in your quote. "people of all regions who wish to reveal unethical behavior in their governments and corporations". Wikileaks is an organization made up of people just like a gov't and corps. The people that are trying to root out "unethical behavior" are not also ethical in their business and personal dealings then they are being grossly hypocritical. During an sexual encounter if either party wishes there to be a condom used then use one. You don't wait until they are asleep and "surprise" them with an STD or pregnancy. Anyone who would do so needs to examine their motives for doing so. Most likely an egomaniac with power and control issues. Most people have a hard time looking subjectively at the consequences of their own actions. It is a hard pill to swallow when that personal introspection is forced upon you. You can either take responsibility for your actions or you can blame anyone and everyone else. Julian Assange is ethically compromised just as the entities that he claims to battle. His best tactic now would be to apoligize to the women and face the charges. Avoidance and flight just make him look worse and make his situation more dire.

    58. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if we don't have direct access to the inner workings of the government, how will we know it's properly handling his case? We don't. Thus we need these documents.

    59. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, except the killed part. The pentagon has admitted that they have no evidence (and they looked) of anyone being harmed as a result of the leaks.

    60. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 0

      Come back to reality and put it back into proper context; which you constantly insist on destroying.

      Context:
      Its not right to divulge his private information.
      But Julian does it on a massive scale without any regard for their safety.

      Then you go off down a false path, attempting to not see the hypocrisy here. It doesn't matter one bit if anyone was actually harmed. The FACTS are, Julian has twice released massive information which has outed people where the potential stakes are much, much higher. Furthermore, Julian's reaction was basically, the end justifies the means.

      Check my other post for the link to YouTube where a critical eye can easily spot is hypocrisy. Not hard to see why so many are distancing themselves from him.

    61. Re:Not on wikileaks? by thijsh · · Score: 2

      You have a right to a degree of privacy, and there is a hard line when you commit a crime because the right of victims outweighs the right to privacy.

      For example your sexlife is private, you can do with your partner(s) in your own house what you both want. But when someone commits rape, or has sex with a much younger minor what would you do when you found out about it? You have a moral duty to report or 'leak' this information about a terrible wrongdoing... While gossip about who has consensual sex with who is a private matter... 'Leaking' information like that is sleazy gossip and deserves no protection.

      Your example of the CC-statement is normally private, but when you come upon someone's CC-statement that has a payment for something that is clearly wrong (and I'm not talking a sex-shop item, but more along the lines of large quantities of chemicals they have no business using under any normal circumstances) you can of course 'leak' this information.

      Evidence can be leaked (and in my opinion deserves protection), other stuff that people want to keep private should remain private.

    62. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 0

      Place it back into original context. Does anyone actually fucking read?!?!?

      THE ACTUAL CONTEXT IS:
      Its wrong to publish Julian's private information. There's a difference.
      Julian has posted massive private information which could have resulted in the deaths of others. When questioned about it, his response was, the means justify the ends. He then goes full circle, but doesn't seem to realize he's damning everyone for doing exactly what he, himself, is does and waving a finger at.

      Look at my other posts and you'll find a link to a YouTube documentary. And its a very pro-wikileaks, pro-Assange documentary and yet if you watch it was a critical eye, he's a fucking hypocritical nut job.

      "Killing people is fun" - Julian Assange.

    63. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikileaks made some mistakes. Evidently, they learned from them and have corrected their behavior. Now what do you say? Yup, keep it up parrot.

    64. Re:Not on wikileaks? by AhabTheArab · · Score: 2

      Check out my other post which links to anther post, which has a link to a YouTube documentary

      Are you serious? Do you really expect anybody to do that?

    65. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      Revisionist history much? Obviously since you just did. Its is down right scary how many blind, ignorant followers he has despite not knowing anything he's actually said or done. Your ignorance and willingness to be used as a dumb tool, and others like you, is really scary. Seriously.

    66. Re:Not on wikileaks? by chrb · · Score: 1

      You mean like the privacy of the people who are known as informants?

      Do informants actually have a "right to privacy" for their activities? You're arguing that the Stasi informer list shouldn't have been published, because it violates an informants right to privacy?

    67. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. Point me to this long list of informant names from the first release. This site found that out of a long list of names originally in the documents, three informant names were left in the first release -- of which was dead and another was a double agent.

      You're a tool because you're stating falsities based on things you don't know, and take for granted for Fox News and other bullshit propagandist sources.

    68. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      This is a great example of propaganda and massive troll moderation. FACT IS POSTED. TROLLS ATTEMPT TO CENSOR AND MANIPULATE.

    69. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So If I go around your neighborhood, your family, and your office telling everyone you are a child molester and a thief. It's completely harmless unless something physically happens to you. I doubt you would feel the same way. Yes, one is a lie and the wikileaks info may not be but the outcome could be the same.

    70. Re:Not on wikileaks? by thijsh · · Score: 2

      Leaking is what you do when you come across information that is evidence of some wrongdoing and you want to serve justice by exposing this. Most leakers are people within the organization who feel a moral obligation to do their part in stopping wrongdoings, not people looking for wrong stuff to leak.

      Your example:
      - When you hack into someone's PC and find images of a crime and leak those (I would suspect after the owner refuses to be blackmailed in this scenario) you are morally wrong and in fact committing a crime.
      - When on the other hand you fix the guys broken PC and during the backup come across said photo's you are morally right to report this individual. And before going into detail of what to report and what not just use your judgement, I for one would not report a guy when I find a photo of him doing some drugs but I would report him when I found child-pornography. In fact some pedophiles have been caught this way and the technicians who reported them 'leaked' this information to the authorities like any sane person would.

      I personally think that leakers are heroes who put the spotlight on crimes and wrongdoings (that would otherwise continue for a long time) at great personal risk. The worse the crime or more powerful the person/corporation/government they are in fact at risk of losing their livelihood or even life over this.

      And *if* I ever commit a severe crime that causes harm to other people I fucking hope someone around me has the guts to leak this information. And when they are afraid that I might pressure or even kill them before a trial I hope there is still an organization that will allow them to leak this information anonymously. You can't be sure that I didn't commit any crime, but nothing is ever sure, you're just going to have to trust my word for now until proven otherwise. But you can help create the circumstance that it's a little more sure by making it easier and accepted to leak...

    71. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikileaks also leaked their own sponsor list when it was accidentally exposed because their newsletter system used CC instead of BCC, what's your point?

    72. Re:Not on wikileaks? by thijsh · · Score: 1

      Bullshit! You can presume innocence until you have proof of wrongdoing. But when that proof is covered up you have a moral obligation to leak it..

    73. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      Umm...how about EVERY NEWS MEDIA OUTLET? THIS IS FACT AND EXTREMELY, WIDELY DOCUMENTED AND PUBLISHED. THIS IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE.

      Or you can listen Assange comment on it and basically state the ends justify the means, while being complete cold and indifferent to the people he potentially put in harms way.

    74. Re:Not on wikileaks? by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      Government documents that contain private stuff about people (like medical records) must be kept private to protect the privacy of that person. Since the police report contains private details about Assauge, it's a breach of -His- privacy to publish it.

    75. Re:Not on wikileaks? by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      Wait, I thought Assange preferred women from countries with sustained political turmoil.

      Sweden?

      --
      -Styopa
    76. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NO, they spent some time misrepresenting the situation so they could get the permission they needed to kill people by turning them into mincemeat with 30 mm armour piercing ammunition and not getting hauled in front of a court martial. Don't try to misrepresent their eager shouts of "come' on, let us shoot, let us shoot!" as someone trying to make really sure they didn't shoot the wrong people. It's more like they tried to pressure the person who ultimately gave them permission, like nagging children.

      You, and your wilful misrepresentation, stink. Go to hell, shill.

    77. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      In the US, having that information leaked would make it much more difficult to get a fair trial and select a jury.

      OTH, from some other posts I read this is a sub $1000 fine issue, that assange was told there was no issue prior to his leaving sweden, that the swedish government is completely ignoring a documented murder of a swedish citizen, that interpol is involved in this in an unprecedented way.

      I imagine that Assange, as most people, is discovering how tough he really is now that multiple governments are persecuting him. If he survives, he's going to be one tough nut. Prior to now he probably felt invulnerable.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    78. Re:Not on wikileaks? by devent · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I can't believe this is +5 insightful. All people have a right of privacy, it doesn't matter if they have commit a crime or not. We have the government to investigate, protect and to punish and we are not a lynch mob anymore. That's why we have private courts and the names and pictures of criminals are censored.

      Governments on the other hand have no rights of privacy, none at all. Because a government have it's power from the people for the people. Reporter of leaks was never before punished, the reporter of leaks was hailed as press heroes.

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    79. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 0

      You're right. The reasonable expectation is for people to go out of their way to troll moderate and remain ignorant.

      But considering its all in this thread, you'd have to be a really lazy piece of shit to not even bother. I wonder if this is the largest single troll moderation that has ever happened on slashdot before. The number of ignorant people who insist on remaining dumb and ignorant is amazing.

    80. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Violation? If I had verifiable proof that I had consensual sex with two swedish women, I would have posted it myself.

    81. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Rary · · Score: 1

      I didn't say that Mr. Assange didn't do something unethical. He may have. He may not have. I don't know, and neither do you, as these are only allegations at this point.

      The point is that not every unethical act falls into the scope of WikiLeaks' stated purpose. If I punch you in the face, that's unethical. But a document detailing my act is not something that would get posted to WikiLeaks.

      Basically, the point of WikiLeaks is to expose massive breaches of ethics that impact large populations, not the misconduct of one individual against one or two other individuals.

      To put this another way, if there was documentation of unethical behaviour on the part of WikiLeaks as an organization, I would expect that documentation to end up on WikiLeaks, otherwise they would be hypocrites. But unethical behaviour in the private life of an individual who happens to be part of WikiLeaks is something that should not end up on WikiLeaks.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    82. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or their own list of sponsors

    83. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Motard · · Score: 1

      But wait, this is a situation where the CIA could be guilty of setting up a foreign activist. Isn't this exactly the sort of case where we need transparency?

    84. Re:Not on wikileaks? by moonbender · · Score: 1

      In a war zone, if you are seen with others who have weapons, YOU ARE A LEGAL TARGET. In this case, HE WAS A LEGAL TARGET.

      No, not according to international humanitarian law. Civilians are almost never a legitimate target, it is almost always illegal to fire with the intent of hitting a civilian. It is also illegal to fire randomly, ie. without a target; so, in other words, it is almost exclusively legal for a soldier to fire if he intends to hit a military target. There are a (very) few exceptions, being in proximity to a legitimate target is not one of them.

      Note that the above paragraph deals with firing with the intent of hitting a non-military target; it does not cover cases where you intend to fire at a military target and hit a civilian by accident or cases where you hit a legitimate target and affect civilian targets which are nearby. In the latter case, proportionality needs to be taken into account.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    85. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You shouldn't believe everything you read about Assange on OKCupid. According to his profile he's almost 10 year younger than he actually is.

    86. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Beerdood · · Score: 2

      The point was that there's no hypocrisy in this situation because wikileaks isn't in the business of releasing this type of information, hence the Tiger sexting analogy. The purpose of the site is to release documents and information related to political and corporate dealings, not a repository of celebrity sex videos and "personal information" of individuals.

      Perhaps your definition of "personal private information" needs some clarification. To me, personal private information would be an SSN, birth information, personal address, mother's maiden name, bank account number, credit card numbers etc... Wikileaks goes out of it's way to redact this information, and your whole "informants could get killed" argument is the same bullshit reasoning that the diplomats are trying to say to cover their asses. If I recall from the whole afghan war logs information, a whopping 3 informant names were released - one of who which was dead, another which was a double agent, and I've yet to hear about a directly related death.

      Besides that, wikileaks doesn't seem to be in the business of releasing information that's already out there on the interwebs. The police report here has already been released - so unless you can somehow prove that wikileaks originally received this document and deliberatly didn't post it, then you might have a smidgen of a point. Even then, the point here is that this police report doesn't directly affect anyone except for Julian and the two women who filed the report - which is why they wouldn't post it. The war logs & other information posted actually affect people - because it's their tax dollars supporting that war, or their back yard where some corporation is secretly dumping toxic chemicals.

      --
      Global warming and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking number of pirates - Gospel of the FSM
    87. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      No, not according to international humanitarian law. Civilians are almost never a legitimate target, it is almost always illegal to fire with the intent of hitting a civilian.

      But that's not what happened. Period.

      People with guns around people who look like they have RPG (or some type of launcher), oddly and very suspiciously poking their head around corners are if attempting to acquire a target. Completely legal. Is it a tragedy? Absolutely! Was it horrible? Was it war? Absolutely! But everything that happened there was completely legal - contrary to the propaganda pushed by Julian Assange and Wikileaks. Now some of the other video's they've released, is violating not only US ROE but international law. Its just that the video which seems to get everyone so upset, is in fact, a completely legal example of the horrors of war.

      As for the rest - being in direct proximity of people with weapons (as there was), who appear to be a collective group (as happened), absolutely does make you a completely legal target.

    88. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Beerdood · · Score: 2

      The difference here is that the stuff wikileaks releases directly affects people - it's their family members getting killed, their tax dollars at work, a corporation in their country buying off a government & polluting their environment etc..

      The information in this police report doesn't directly affect anyone except Julian & the two women making the claim. Wikileaks is not in the celebrity gossip business

      So yea, technically they're both "government dealings" I guess in that sense. But no other significant similarity

      --
      Global warming and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking number of pirates - Gospel of the FSM
    89. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They DO divulge personal private information which can get informants and their families killed.

      Like everyone else, I'd also like a citation for this claim, that even the US DoD has said is bogus, repeatedly. Not "Everyone knows it", not "I said *can*", I mean a specific instance of leaked information that caused an informant or their family to be put in mortal danger.

    90. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      Another example of massive stupidity.

      If you go around a neighborhood stating I committed heresy against Allah in the Middle East, chances are extremely high I'll be murdered and/or arrested. There has even been recent stories of this exact thing taking place against Christians. And guess what, they were arrested. When finally released, the neighbors are still insisting they plan on murdering the Christians. The Christians say its not true and its a vendetta.

      The simple fact is, if you make public that you are helping the the Americans, in many places, that alone is enough to result in the murder your family. Its factually happened MANY times. Its well documented. To then close your eyes and imagine what is a fairly high risk for informers and collaborators offered zero risk, and is therefore not hypocrisy, is delusion at best.

      Your example is further made all the more ridicules because its not common for mob justice to take place in first world countries anymore. Whereas in the Middle East, its not uncommon at all.

      Basically, there isn't a single point of contention which has any credibility here.

    91. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Abcd1234 · · Score: 2


      The information in this police report doesn't directly affect anyone except Julian & the two women making the claim.

      Unless, of course, the leaks expose misconduct by the police or government in an attempt to discredit someone whose proven to be a political liability.

      Note, to be clear, I don't advocate for 100% information transparency... I'm not an information anarchist nutjob. My point is simply that the dividing line between "should be leaked" and "shouldn't be leaked" is *very* complicated. And in this particular case, I really don't think it's entirely clear on which side the hammer falls.

      On the one hand, we have, here, leaked details about a case which could result in a trial in the media. The result could be Assange or his accusers being denied due process.

      On the other hand, if there *is* something shady going on, the public needs to know about it.

      Anyone claiming to have a definitive "right" answer, in this case, is either lying or an idiot.

    92. Re:Not on wikileaks? by bcmm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you watched the full one you know that at several points they asked for clearance to fire, and spent some time trying to figure the situation out.

      If you watched the full video, you'd know that they got clearance because they claimed they'd seen an RPG (it was a camera, but they could've just been stupid at that point), and then claim it has been fired (which they cannot possibly believe).

      It is conceivable that they mistook the event at 2:43 in the YouTube video, when the (large) camera was pointed directly at them, as an RPG being aimed at them, but if anyone was looking down the camera that the recording came from, they knew it wasn't fired. Again, immediately after this happens, they report on the radio that an RPG was fired, not just aimed. From the transcript: "02:23 Yeah, we had a guy shoot". (Time difference is due to 25 seconds of text at the start of the YouTube video).

      --
      # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
      Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
    93. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      I honestly don't understand the need for "citation" since its common knowledge and widely reported by every news media. Period. Such a statement simply means you don't know the most basic of information on the subject. Furthermore, the ONLY reason the second war leaks had redacted named is because media shook their fingers at him for releasing completely underacted materials the first time.

      But if every news outlet in the world isn't enough for you, you can hear Assange comment on the fact that he really doesn't care if he put people in danger because the ends justify the means.

      I'm completely amazed at how little people actually know about the people they are actively defending. The simple fact is, Assange is a weird propagandist and has no problems lying and using propaganda to further his personal agendas. Sadly, most of the most popular wikileaks videos released are half truths, lies, and pure propaganda.

      "Killing people is fun." - Julian Assange

    94. Re:Not on wikileaks? by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      Only if I am found *guilty* can you violate my/your privacy, since your are presumed innocent until that point (or at least, that is how it is supposed to work, even of governments and media selectively ignore this). You can't violate privacy on *accusation* alone (which is all we have so far with Assange and you are suggesting is a *duty*). Even if you are found guilty you can still get name suppression and sealed documents. Even convicted criminals have rights dontcha know.

    95. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Motard · · Score: 1

      - When on the other hand you fix the guys broken PC and during the backup come across said photo's you are morally right to report this individual.

      Ok, I got you now. If I'm a Swedish Dell employee working on police computers and I happen across upon an investigation report of Assange's rape case, and I don't trust the government to handle it properly, I can release it to the world.

    96. Re:Not on wikileaks? by bcmm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Forgot to say: to me, the incident has an eerie similarity to the transcripts of intercepted Russian communications during the KAL007 shootdown. The same situation occurs: the pilot fails to report all the information he has (thought unlike the Apache crew, he doesn't appear to mislead intentionally), and is ordered to fire based on his own flawed information, leaving the same ambiguity as to who's fault the casualties are.

      --
      # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
      Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
    97. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Bob9113 · · Score: 1

      I don't know if you've watched the full video, or just Assange's edit of it. If you watched the full one you know that at several points they asked for clearance to fire, and spent some time trying to figure the situation out.

      I (not the GP) watched the version I pulled from WikiLeaks. It appeared uncut, including the requests for clearance to fire and delays while waiting for deliberation from fire control. To me it looked like the normal, nasty, business of war. Uncertainty of who is the enemy and the need to act quickly or risk the lives of yourself and others. Normal, nasty, business that is very important for the public to know about. Normal, nasty, business which does not mean we should quit this war, but which is important for us to consider when deciding whether to authorize our government to prosecute war for a given cause. Important for us to consider when deciding whether to put soldiers in the unenviable position of killing people, in highly uncertain and fluid conditions.

      It seems like you're saying WikiLeaks is a propaganda machine. I haven't seen the edited version you reference, though I do think that the "collateral murder" tagline was inappropriate (such is the cost of human-based journalism). However, that does not change the fact that the unedited video is exactly the sort of thing that should be leaked -- or better yet presented to the public by the appropriate government officials. It is critical that We The People can, in some small way, understand the true burden of war and make an informed decision about whether to engage in it.

    98. Re:Not on wikileaks? by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      You do know that the Pentagon is given the released documents and get a chance to tell wikileaks if they have missed anything important before release? Did they not tell you that in your part of the World (hence you rabid reaction)?

    99. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      I stated the information wasn't redacted. A fact confirmed by all major media outlets and even Julian Assange. You state I'm a tool for stating fact. What is wrong with you?

    100. Re:Not on wikileaks? by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

      You're such an ass, I'm going to actually try to find the posting/URL you're talking about. I'll report back here.

      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
    101. Re:Not on wikileaks? by JAlexoi · · Score: 2

      Presumption of innocence takes a real hit with your comment.
      No matter how conclusive the evidence you think is, we have things called courts that have to conclude that the person is not innocent. Only when those fail, we can and should break our own rules.
      BTW: Violation of privacy is not the same as making things publicly available.

    102. Re:Not on wikileaks? by aDSF762 · · Score: 0

      And at other points they laughed and acted rather impatiently and IMHO nowhere in the video is there any perceived threat. Other than attempting to save someones life...

      --
      sense of security, like pockets jingling...
    103. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      Extremely odd logic. In fact, using your logic, a massive chunk of the world's law enforcement completely grinds to a halt - and rightfully so. So simply using the world as a reasonable standard means you're completely wrong, and with it, the rest of your platform.

      Now then, please put my comments back into proper context. Thus far, EVERY REPLY has completely taken my comment out of context and then added additional crap in an effort to detract from the original context. Please remain within proper context.

      "Killing people is fun." - Julian Assange.

    104. Re:Not on wikileaks? by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1
      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
    105. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      My response was flipped because there was a massive assault of stupidity, ignorance, and trolls; including massive, massive, troll moderation. I apologize if you are in fact, sincere in your interest to learn the facts. Link to post, providing surround context, with link to YouTube video.

    106. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, puleez....governments make laws, police supposedly enforce the laws (although they have huge discretionary powers about which 'laws' they enforce and which they let slip by, turn a blind eye, etc.)

      Police investigations are indeed 'government dealings'.

    107. Re:Not on wikileaks? by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

      Finally: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvmfOaZ34Pk

      "The WikiLeaks Documentary", apparently from "SVT"

      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
    108. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two(possibly insipid semantic) corrections:

      I would argue against positive obligation(duty) since that contradicts the notion of many rights.

      Also, I would argue that to commit an evil act is the initiation of force and retaliation against it(such as releasing details of it) is not. So while technically it is still a breach of ones privacy, the idea of calling it a violation bothers me, like it is still wrong. If instead we describe these actions in terms of violence, the non aggression principle and such instead of legal rights, the language describes the morality of infringing on the privacy of someone who first aggressed against someone else becomes more clear and consistent.

      I suspect these distinctions I'm making are already understood, but I still had to point them out just in case.

    109. Re:Not on wikileaks? by debrain · · Score: 4, Interesting

      On the other hand, wikileaks leaked their own donors list. As far as I know its not illegal to donate to wikileaks, even if mastercard, visa, paypal and BoA say otherwise, so maybe you do have a point.

      Sir –

      Incidentally, if you wish to make an anonymous donation to Wikileaks from a common law country (Australia, Canada, U.S., Great Britain, etc) you can give the money to a law firm and ask that they make the donation out of their trust account anonymously. In general, a retained law firm is barred by confidentiality to not disclose that you are even a client, and thanks to the client-solicitor privilege they cannot be forced to disclose that relationship by a Court except in a rare set of particular circumstances.

      This is, of course, a general rule and not legal advice you should rely on. Ask the law firm what protections in the form of privacy, confidentiality and privilege they provide for you if you wish to make an anonymous donation to Wikileaks through them, and under what circumstances your identity and donation could be disclosed by way of Court order or otherwise.

      For further protection, you could ask the law firm you retain to retain another law firm to make the donation.

      Some firms may not wish to engage in this practice, and indeed may be barred from doing so by way of their respective law society or applicable legislation, but if they are it is certainly a measure of anonymity with seasoned and tested protections that's not easily accessible by any other means.

    110. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Provide a citation of a specific instance or shut the fuck up. Since it's "common knowledge" and "widely reported" you should have absolutely no problem providing a credible example. Until then, I'm going to assume you're just another ignorant retard that hasn't actually read any of the documents in question.

    111. Re:Not on wikileaks? by zeroshade · · Score: 1

      Can you please cite where this information that he has posted resulted in any deaths? Considering that the pentagon has many more resources than you do and could not find a single instance of someone dying as a result of the information leaked, I doubt that you could cite one.

    112. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      How fucking stupid are you? I provided a fucking link, to a documentary, in which mass media reports on the very issue to which you're demanding a citation? Basically you're now saying the world is not enough? Holy shit!

      You're fucking handed EVERYTHING and its not enough?

    113. Re:Not on wikileaks? by moonbender · · Score: 1

      No, again, being in proximity to a valid target does not make another person (or object, for that matter) a valid target. You argue that the US soldiers were convinced that all targets were military and, thus, valid. That's a judgment call on two accounts: first, that they really were convinced, and second, that they performed the required recon to be legally able to make that distinction. Not saying your judgement is incorrect; I don't really care and I don't know enough about the practical application of humanitarian law to make that call, anyway.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    114. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 2

      I (not the GP) watched the version I pulled from WikiLeaks.

      Please keep in mind, Wikileaks has released that same video twice. The first time they released it, it was a heavily edited video which they painted in very poor light, which was further negatively viewed because most people honestly have no idea the reality of the environment or what the facts on the ground are. After some media (most were content to be used as propaganda tools) started pushing back because the military told them the video had been edited, they finally released the complete video. So chances are, what you are now seeing is the complete video. But having the complete video doesn't change the fact that Wikileaks used the world press as its own propaganda machine and willfully mislead and lied about the original video release.

      To this day, most people still don't understand why they are seeing and allow them emotions to carry them to a final conclusion.

    115. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, where are the names? If the names weren't redacted where are they? Why won't you answer the question?

    116. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He refused to post the Climategate/East Anglia emails too...

      He thought it would hurt the Global Warming cause. (Posted in the current Daily Mail)

      ASSange is a egomanical jerk with an agenda. Not unlike most of the major media.

    117. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      No, again, being in proximity to a valid target does not make another person

      Complete wrong. Period.

      If you don't wear a uniform and move in a group with others who have weapons, you are, for every legal measure, a legal target to engage. Period.

      If there are three men, and one is a civilian, which one is he? Okay, different situation. There are now three men and they are moving together. One has a gun. How many are civilians. Legally, the answer is zero. Period.

      This is what happens when you refuse to wear a uniform. Interestingly enough, they know this and use it for propaganda on a daily basis. That's why they go out of their way to collect weapons from their fallen - so as to then claim civilians have been killed.

      The military death counts are known to be under reported. The death counts widely reported by some civilian organizations are likely, known to be massively over reported.

      Watch some videos of Death Valley in Afghanistan. Enemy opens fire on fire base. Marines (IIRC) return fire and kill those engaging the fire base. Takes time and the Marines finally arrive. Weapons are gone and the locals are now angry because peaceful people have been killed. The only bodies are those of the people who opened fire first and engaged the Marine fire base. Propaganda reports civilians have been killed.

      The terrorists there are very propaganda savvy and use it for all its worth.

      Now then, that's not to say innocent civilians are not killed. That unfortunately does happen. But the reality is, all too often, reported civilian deaths, actually died with a weapon in their hand.

    118. Re:Not on wikileaks? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      In a war zone, if you are seen with others who have weapons, YOU ARE A LEGAL TARGET. In this case, HE WAS A LEGAL TARGET.

      This is incorrect. If a civilian is standing alongside a combatant, hitting him accidentally is not a war crime if you target the combatant (and even then only if you don't actually have the reasonable means to make it otherwise). But targeting a civilian just because he's standing alongside is not legal.

      In any case, by the time the van came to the scene, there were no men with weapons in it. There were bodies on the ground, and there were weapons quite separate from those bodies.

    119. Re:Not on wikileaks? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      As far as I know its not illegal to donate to wikileaks

      I would imagine it depends on where in the world you are. Same as that BNP membership thing.

    120. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What actually happens is you target the guy who’s firing at you, kill him, the guy next to him grabs the gun and runs away, and none of them were wearing uniforms so the dead guy is now an unarmed civilian casualty. Meanwhile the guy you didn’t kill is parading down the street in a crowd of demonstrators firing the gun into the air and chanting “death to the US” to protest the atrocious massacre.

    121. Re:Not on wikileaks? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      While you make an excellent point, I think you're overlooking how governments are funded via other people's money. This adds a much greater level of responsibility for their conduct. Just as I could buy sex toys with my own credit card, yet could not with one from the office - vis-a-vis government leaks are more important.

    122. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Forget about the 'RPG' camera.
      Take it out of the conversation.... PERHAPS that looked like a RPG.
      Whatever.

      Explain why the hell they lit up a van with a kid in it for rescuing wounded people?
      No threat, no guns, no aggressive activity.

      Just a couple of citizens trying to save lives in the place they live that was turned into a war zone.

      If Omaha was turned into a war zone and soccer mom and soccer dad pulled over to help a couple of guys groaning and bleeding all over the place and China just went and lit-up the van we would call it a war crime.
         

    123. Re:Not on wikileaks? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      You're saying this is not a PR war between Assange and the US that has little or nothing to do with better govt?

      What's the basis for your assertion that, for example, the Church of Scientology is an institution of the United States Government?

    124. Re:Not on wikileaks? by BobMcD · · Score: 2

      It is conceivable that they mistook the event at 2:43 in the YouTube video, when the (large) camera was pointed directly at them, as an RPG being aimed at them, but if anyone was looking down the camera that the recording came from, they knew it wasn't fired.

      This, by the way, is moot because you can see the range readout on the weapon's sight at this time as well. That Apache is resting at over double the effective range of every Soviet-designed RPG. They had time to figure it out, and elected to lie instead. Then later, when they had used up all their rounds, they went off on a rocket-firing spree. They were clearly going for a 'high score'.

    125. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikileaks always had the complete video, since day 0.

      Just because you didn't see it does not mean it was not there. Hint: there was a .torrent link. Maybe you missed it because you were chomping on Freedom Fries or something?

      And that whole "blood on their hands"-line is just Pentagon propaganda to make it seemingly easy to paint Wikileaks in a bad light in the media. Wikileaks has redacted names the best they could, even when Pentagon declined to help them. Also, so far there is no evidence of an informant or other person getting hurt because of the leaks.

      To this day, most people still don't understand why they are seeing and allow them emotions to carry them to a final conclusion.

      Indeed, some do as you describe.

    126. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just wanted to point out your lack of context surrounding your Assange sound-bite.

    127. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      Wikileaks always had the complete video, since day 0.

      No one said otherwise. They had the complete video. They edited it, released it, and lied about it. That's the facts. The rest of your post makes even less sense and even has completely false information.

      Wikileaks has redacted names the best they could

      Not true in the least. The redacted the SECOND release. The first release was completely unedited - which they boast about at the time. The redacted their second release ONLY because international media waged their collective fingers at them.

    128. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Duradin · · Score: 1

      "They couldn't possibly hit us at this range." - famous last words.

      Also, effective range != maximum range, and a RPG doesn't not rely on kinetic energy for its killing power.

    129. Re:Not on wikileaks? by dreampod · · Score: 1

      The cables are themselves governmental dealings and if US diplomats are telling their superiors that foreign heads of state are having an affair or are taking psychiatric drugs it is a relevant political fact. If there were diplomatic cables discussing Tiger Woods' sexual misadventures then it would be worthwhile for Wikileaks to divulge as it informs on what our government is thinking and engaged in.

    130. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Motard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you watched the full video, you'd know that they got clearance because they claimed they'd seen an RPG (it was a camera, but they could've just been stupid at that point), and then claim it has been fired (which they cannot possibly believe).

      I find it rather odd that you can determine what hey possibly could believe. You and I watched a video and came to different conclusions. Afterwards, many people slowed things down and enlarged and enhanced images and people still disagreed.

      Meanwhile, the aircraft crew was there. Not only could they see what was recorded, they had a panoramic view. I think they had a few more data points. Who's to said that an RPG round was not in the air?

      If they just wanted to kill people they could've just gone ahead and done it.

    131. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Magada · · Score: 3, Informative

      If anything, the full version was worse. There's a lull of about ten minutes in which the helicopter guys just hang around and wait for something to move so they can shoot it. The edited-out bits about the girl are also horrific, showing blatant disregard for civilians from the US military (the shot-up girl is denied medical aid, basically).

      --
      Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
    132. Re:Not on wikileaks? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      That's simply not true. Both versions were made available the very same day on the very same website. Check the timestamps on the two clips posted to YouTube - they're identical. They show 4/3/10. The website went up on 4/5, I believe, and the news outlets seem to have gotten ahold of it a few days later.

      So yeah, you're wrong. With all due respect, I'd genuinely like to know - are you repeating a falsehood or making things up or what?

    133. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not surprising nobody really talks about this part of the full video. The unedited version was more damning than Assange probably realized while clipping the authorization radio calls out. Truly, the AH-64 is one of the most advances airborne platforms in service. It's surprising that between the dual FLIR cameras, the L-FCR and and eyeballs and ears of the pilot, copilot and operators would have been indicative of an inbound rocket propelled anything.

      They lied to get permission to proactively engage what, could be argued, they thought was an insurgent. Instead they fired at a big camera with no heat signature. A recently fired RPG would have been bright white on their FLIR (which it wasn't.)

    134. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Duradin · · Score: 1

      s/doesn't not/does not

    135. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 2

      I already did.

      Explain why the hell they lit up a van with a kid in it for rescuing wounded people?
      No threat, no guns, no aggressive activity.

      Standard operating procedure observed every day.

      Just a couple of citizens trying to save lives in the place they live that was turned into a war zone.

      They had daily experience indicating otherwise and absolutely no reason to expect it was any different from any other situation they've previously observed.

      If Omaha was turned into a war zone and soccer mom and soccer dad pulled over to help a couple of guys groaning and bleeding all over the place and China just went and lit-up the van we would call it a war crime.

      Way over simplification. The root of all this is that this is what happens when you cowardly refuse to wear uniforms. Innocent people absolutely will be killed whereby you then leverage this, truthfully or not, to ones advantage.

    136. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the local graffiti wall didn't mind either, when it told the world at large how silly you are. Publishing is not leaking, nor is it a crime.

    137. Re:Not on wikileaks? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Three points:

      A) Weapons were not illegal in Iraq. 'Having a weapon' was absolutely NOT the sole criteria under the ROE. Look it up.

      B) A minivan is not a weapon. Nor is an ambulance. Not even when it belongs to the enemy.

      C) Which uniform should the little kids have been wearing on their way to school (or what-have-you)? Have we forgotten that this wasn't a warzone but a city street?

      Justifications can be made for their behavior, but doing so when it is absolutely clear that they were in the wrong is an equal wrong to killing those civilians yourself.

    138. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Magada · · Score: 1

      What war zone? The US is not at war with Iraq, last I checked. You, sir, are spouting 100-proof bona-fide all-American bullshit.

      What you see there, from the point of view of international law, is the US military killing unarmed civilians in a country it is currently occupying.

      Radovan Karadzic is doing time in Scheveningen for exactly this kind of thing. Milosevic died in prison before he could be condemned for the same type of actions - but imprisoned he was, not left free to publish a book about his presidency.

      --
      Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
    139. Re:Not on wikileaks? by ubermiester · · Score: 1

      Ahh, a coy but quite diversionary response. Yes, other documents have been released, but you can substitute "US" for scientology or whatever other institution/organization you like. The fact is Wikileaks is a PR organization. It is trying to make people look bad in the public's eye. With that in mind, it should not be surprising that others would do the same. And because he is making up the rules as he goes along, it should not be a shock that others have unilaterally decided that the bar has been lowered for the dissemination of personal information as well.

      He claims that private organizations do not get to decide what is private, so why would a private citizen get to make that claim? Because he says so? Because you say so? He opened Pandora's box and now we're all facing the consequences. No one should be surprised that things did not turn out exactly as planned...

    140. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      I distinctly remember a DoD press conference whereby they showed additional video to the press, stating the Wikileaks video was misleading. If I erred, I only erred on the release window of the second video - which is what was largely covered, repeated, and reported on.

      Look at the comments. Most people didn't even know there were two videos or that one had been discredited or that both videos are misrepresented by wikileaks.

    141. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Sanat · · Score: 1

      Actually I feel in the upcoming times whether measured in years or in decades that there will not be secrets any longer. That all actions will be open and all is known and accessible.

      I do not know if a society that had no secrets would make the living on Earth more exciting or more mundane for I can see both possibilities.

      --
      And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make
    142. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      Says the free-floating moniker...

    143. Re:Not on wikileaks? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Well, sir, I've sighted in and hit targets at those ranges and can tell you that it is a ridiculously long distance. RPG's cannot go that far. Period.

    144. Re:Not on wikileaks? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Compare:

      Yes, other documents have been released, but you can substitute "US" for scientology or whatever other institution/organization you like.

      with

      You're saying this is not a PR war between Assange and the US that has little or nothing to do with better govt?

      Please don't move the goalposts. That's considered cheating. You made a false claim and got called out on it. It happens.

    145. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      All three points are stupid.

      A) Weapons were not illegal in Iraq. 'Having a weapon' was absolutely NOT the sole criteria under the ROE. Look it up.

      And if you are seen with a weapon in a combat zone, you are legally classified as an illegal combatant. This means you can be legally executed on the stop.

      B) A minivan is not a weapon. Nor is an ambulance. Not even when it belongs to the enemy.

      Ignoring the fact this comment has absolutely nothing to do with anything...

      C) Which uniform should the little kids have been wearing on their way to school (or what-have-you)? Have we forgotten that this wasn't a warzone but a city street?

      Trollish and ignorant comment. At which point do they know children are in the vehicle? Oh really...after it had already been shot to hell? So without question, your comment is illogical and stupid. Furthermore, in that part of the world, its extremely common to be shooting by the time you're six. Furthermore, children are commonly seen shooting at soldiers in that part of the world.

    146. Re:Not on wikileaks? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Well, now you know.

    147. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      This is incorrect.

      Everything I said is correct. The problem you and most everyone else here is that you're making the assumption they are civilians. Flatly, that's an extremely poor assumption. Also, people are under the assumption they are protected as "civilian status". when in reality, they generally fall under, "illegal combatant" status. This is what happens when you don't wear uniforms. Technically, illegal combatants can be executed without arrest or trial.

      So when you say, "targeting civilians", you really mean, "targeting illegal combatants" who are moving together and socializing. Again, that's the problem with not wearing uniforms. People don't like to hear it, but those were completely legal kills. Absolutely tragic on top of tragedy, but legal nonetheless.

      In any case, by the time the van came to the scene, there were no men with weapons in it. There were bodies on the ground, and there were weapons quite separate from those bodies.

      Which is standard operating procedure of the terrorists and observed on a daily basis. Terrorists attack. Terrorists die. Vehicle (frequently vans) sweep in and recover the wounded and weapons. The dead are purposely left behind. They then report civilian casualties for purposes of propaganda. This is the number one reason why the non-military numbers of civilians deaths are known to be way over inflated. Likewise, for propaganda reasons, the military tends to under report. The truth is somewhere in the middle and we'll likely never know the actual counts.

    148. Re:Not on wikileaks? by ubermiester · · Score: 1

      Actually, I was altering my original point to apply it to a broader argument, but your complaint is noted.

      That said, if you're getting into that much procedural detail, I would suggest that you actually address my main points:

      • Assange has decided unilaterally that private information is only private until he decides otherwise (and of course someone is willing to provide it to him), which has set a rather alarming precedent we all must face.
      • When you are engaged in a PR war with any organization - public or private - you cannot then assume that the other side is going to play by the rules when you don't.
      • In this case Assange is the institution, and as such should be subject to all the same "rules" that he has ascribed to the orgs he goes after.

      Talk about that stuff and then worry about the goalposts...

    149. Re:Not on wikileaks? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      And if you are seen with a weapon in a combat zone, you are legally classified as an illegal combatant. This means you can be legally executed on the stop.

      That's not true. READ THE ROE. Wikileaks had them up in both versions (timely and current) and both made 'exigent threat' relatively clear. This, by the way, is why they had to radio in for permission. If you were right, they would have simply fired. But they didn't do that. They called home, lied, then fired. That is salient.

      Ignoring the fact this comment has absolutely nothing to do with anything...

      Ah, well that explains a lot. So you're unaware that the Apache crew not only fired on the reporters but also the family that stopped to pick up the wounded? I suggest you watch the video. Because from where I sit the illegal actions of the second part (firing on the van) illustrates the frame of mind within the first part (firing on the reporters) and these illustrate together that the Apache crew desired to murder as many as possible as their primary goal. Watch the video...

      At which point do they know children are in the vehicle?

      At the point just prior to them requesting permission to fire, of course. SURELY they would NEVER fire into a civilian space without reconning their targets FIRST? This IS what you're claiming, yes? That the targets were properly reconned and the firing was perfectly legal, due to the war? If I'm refuting the wrong claim, that's totally cool, just say so.

      I'd also add that if we're convinced that we have to send soldiers over there to kill their children so we can fly in safety then we ought to reconsider our priorities. The point at which we're justifying the murder of the legally innocent is the point where we're morally bankrupt. Or, is it your position that the weapon-wielding six year old should be tried as an adult? Or, rather, executed on the spot without trial?

      Do you hear what you're saying???

    150. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the...? Do you even have the slightest understanding of how a fair judical system works?

      I can press charges against you for child rape or whatever, and people on the street will start pointing at you (behind your back at first, of course).
      Of course it must be kept secret (until there's serious reasons to really asperse you), that's pretty much the basics any law student learns.

      You shouldn't tell people to "fuck off" while spouting such bullshit.

    151. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      If anything, the full version was worse.

      Whether that's true or not is precisely beside the point.

      Wikileaks shouldn't have been editing *anything* (minus necessary redactions to protect names of informants, etc). They have, themselves, flat out stated they aren't journalists. They just leak things. Well, if that's true, there should be no editorializing at all. At best, they should leak *all* the original materials, and provide time indexes to things they deem "interesting".

    152. Re:Not on wikileaks? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      No actually they weren't all redacted and this has had impact. Lost jobs at the very least, I've not heard of any deaths yet.

      As to diplomacy - do you show everyone your cards while playing poker?

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    153. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Duradin · · Score: 1

      Then why say effective range if it was beyond maximum range?

    154. Re:Not on wikileaks? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Those are all fine points, to be sure, and worthy of discussion. But the one that caught my attention was this being about the US. However, at your suggestion I'd gladly reply to these you have outlined as well:

      1) Assange (and Wikileaks) will certainly exercise editorial control over what gets posted and what does not. There's no real reason to expect otherwise. However, this would be an excellent argument for OpenLeaks or what-have-you. Multiple sources for this type of information will lead to greater coverage and publication.

      2) Indeed. There likely are no rules when engaged in play at that particular level.

      3) I'm not informed well enough to know for certain if this statement is true, but I can certainly counter by stating that Assange clearly is not the concept, so there's little lost in his loss as an individual. The jinni is out of the bottle.

      Anyway, the point is if you're not a fan of Assange - use OpenLeaks instead. If you're not a fan of the internet, well, build a time machine I guess.

    155. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I seriously do not see it when the suspected perpetrator is hiding behind "political persecution" to avoid responsibility for a potential crime. So far he has gotten to say everything about the matter while the swedish criminal courts are bound by legal confidentiality requirements...

    156. Re:Not on wikileaks? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Colloquial speech. But if you're uncertain, please do feel free to look at the range readout and look up the characteristics of those weapons. Could be I have them switched, but again due to personal experience with how far that really is, I'd be really impressed to see anything rocket-propelled (without guidance) fly that far. Especially at a street price where an average Iraqi could be aiming it at an Apache.

    157. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Doomdark · · Score: 1

      I don't know where you get the idea that individuals or corporations should publish everything. WikiLeaks model is that others publish dirty laundry government wants to hide. By same token, isn't surfacing of this report EXACTLY like things are to work -- someone "leaked" the document (which is even better since WL is, alas, not an impartial party for documents that pertain to legal actions relating to its founder).

      --
      I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
    158. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Doomdark · · Score: 1

      Yes.

      --
      I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
    159. Re:Not on wikileaks? by stdarg · · Score: 1

      This is the problem with our wars. We are mixing war and humanitarian efforts. Just the fact that a soldier shooting at someone he thinks is an enemy combatant could be *considered* a "war crime" shows how completely retarded our ideas of war crimes have become.

      They used to be things that were unequivocally bad, like slaughtering an entire village including women and children, going on mass rape campaigns.. now it's like, oh you *could* have avoided that casualty by dramatically increasing risk to yourself and your friends, WAR CRIME!!

    160. Re:Not on wikileaks? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The problem you and most everyone else here is that you're making the assumption they are civilians.

      It is an assumption that is required under Geneva Conventions - if someone is not clearly a combatant, they are to be considered civilian.

      in reality, they generally fall under, "illegal combatant" status.

      There is no such term as an "illegal combatant" or "unlawful combatant" in any of the international conventions governing the conduct of war (Geneva etc). There are civilians and combatants. Someone who is not a member of the armed forces of the opposing party, and who is not otherwise involved in hostilities, is not a combatant. Combatants can engage in unlawful conduct (e.g. not wearing a uniform or other identifying sign), and then the protections do not apply to them. But civilians are civilians.

      Which is standard operating procedure of the terrorists and observed on a daily basis. Terrorists attack. Terrorists die. Vehicle (frequently vans) sweep in and recover the wounded and weapons.

      That does not absolve the military of the United States from acting in accordance with the international treaties that the country has signed. If you cannot comply with them, then either 1) revoke the signature so that the world knows your stance, or 2) do not conduct military operations on foreign soil.

    161. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      They radioed to establish them as illegal combatants.

      The rest of your post is strictly fictional and attempting to place words into my mouth.

      The point being, people are outraged that children were killed and seem to imply they were specifically hunted down and killed. That's delusional to say the least; which IIRC, seems to be along the lines of your outrage. That's a completely fictional recreation of what happened. The fact is, children were in the vehicle and were killed. It means it was an unintended consequence of what happens when illegal combatants use the at their daily standard operating procedure and creates a horrible chain of events which follows. The facts, do, however, make it a legal killing and underscores the horrors and tragedies which happen in war.

    162. Re:Not on wikileaks? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      In point of fact, those children were only maimed. They both survived.

      From this and the other points I can see that you're really not all that well informed on what actually happened. Which is fine, but then why try and advocate it?

      Then again, from my point of view, it would be really difficult to advocate what happened knowing all the facts. So perhaps that's that.

    163. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you seriously not see any difference between the privacy of an individual and the transparency of government/corporate dealings?

      Actually, the report is a police report and police is part of government. IMHO, this should have been posted the leak on wikileaks.org. Assange is now a public figure (by his own doing) and the accusations are not secret at all. There is really nothing "private" about this case anymore.

      Secondly, when one diplomat corresponds privately with another, that conversation is also private. Leaking that is no different than leaking this report. If Assange doesn't like it - tough shit.

      I'm not against wikileaks, but stuff that they published was simply publishing private, candid correspondence. Nothing earth-shattering, yet. Not much different from this report. If Assange wanted to have a case for his privacy, he should not have published everything he has published. Wikileaks should be focusing on corruption and criminal activity (if any) found in leaks rather than blanket publishing of correspondence.

    164. Re:Not on wikileaks? by LanMan04 · · Score: 1

      You and I watched a video and came to different conclusions.

      Yes, because you weren't paying close attention. Or do you think, based on the video, that an RPG was fired?

      --
      With the first link, the chain is forged.
    165. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      It is an assumption that is required under Geneva Conventions

      Granted...but that goes out the door when you are seen with people with weapons and when your equipment is misidentified as weapons. At which point in time, you are legally classified as an illegal combatant. That's why the constant assumption that their status was always that of a civilian and wrongly attacked is is completely wrong and completely unjustified.

      There is no such term as an "illegal combatant" or "unlawful combatant" in any of the international conventions governing the conduct of war (Geneva etc).

      Not true. Its understood at least as far back as WWII and holds precedent in the world's court.

      That's why spies and illegal combatants can be executed. That's why soldiers who wear the enemy uniform can be executed without trial. That's why, in order to receive the protections of the GC YOU MUST WEAR A UNIFORM. Period. That, in part, is why so many people are constantly so confused as to what's going on. If you carry weapons and no uniform in a battle zone, you do not receive the protections of the GC and are classified as an illegal combatant. Period. At which time, the only question becomes, are you a civilian or are you an illegal combatant. Here's a hint. If you are perceived as aiming a weapon and are known to be traveling with and socializing with others with weapons, chances are you will be deemed an enemy combatant. At which point in time, you receive none of the protections provided by the GC.

      This is all why people in the area are constantly told to not carry weapons. This is why weapons are confiscated from homes. This is why people in the area are constantly told if you are seen carrying a weapon, you may well be considered hostile and categorized as an enemy combatant.

    166. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikileaks doesn't divulge personal private information of an individual's sex affairs.

      Get a grip on reality. They DO divulge personal private information which can get informants and their families killed. Wikileaks, to date, has done so TWICE ON A MASSIVE SCALE. Given an option, I'm sure the informants would rather have their bedroom secretes released rather than the fact they informed on murderers.

      The Pentagon seems to disagree with your statements. Maybe you should educate them about your superior intelligence sources?

      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38417666/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

    167. Re:Not on wikileaks? by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      I was speaking in a broad sense because factually, it doesn't matter if the children were killed or not; as it pertains to the facts of the situation. Most people only care that children were involved and therefore anyone on the other end is immoral and therefore guilty.

      The facts of the situation is, it doesn't matter that children were involved. Anyone who brings it up are attempting to manipulate emotion. The fact of the matter is, YOU brought up the children.

      At this point, I'm officially tired of being one of the few people who actually understand the material and being attacked by the ignorant peanut gallery; who by in large, not only don't want to know the truth, but would rather attack anything any everything so long as it means they get to maintain their ignorance and the status quo.

      Now if you want to offer up some of the other videos, I'll actually agree its not good. Its just this particular video, most people have absolutely no idea what the hell they are seeing, let alone talking about.

    168. Re:Not on wikileaks? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Just the fact that a soldier shooting at someone he thinks is an enemy combatant could be *considered* a "war crime" shows how completely retarded our ideas of war crimes have become.

      There are very rigid definitions of what makes an enemy combatant; they don't require much thinking. Uniform? Badge? Gun? If none of the above, presume civilian.

      This isn't new, by the way, this has been the case for a while now. It's just that the conventions have been ignored where convenient for pretty much as long as they existed.

    169. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Duradin · · Score: 1

      Despite the odds people do win the lottery.

      If you're within maximum range there is a chance, however small, that you will get hit (regardless of what their actual target was as long is it was in your general direction).

    170. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Shimbo · · Score: 1

      There are no charges against him, yet.

      I would imagine that the Swedish authorities intend to charge him as soon as he is in within their jurisdiction. I agree with Sarah Ludford, it would be an abuse of the European arrest warrant system to drag him back to Sweden just to answer a few more questions

    171. Re:Not on wikileaks? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      I'll object only to the claim that I am the one less informed. This has been established in the inverse.

    172. Re:Not on wikileaks? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Granted...but that goes out the door when you are seen with people with weapons and when your equipment is misidentified as weapons.

      That is still imprecise - otherwise an armed enemy soldier walking into a civilian building would immediately identify all residents of that building as combatants. Which is obviously false.

      That said, I am not talking about reporters in the video. I agree that, in a crowd where some people are clearly armed, and others are clearly cooperating with those armed such that it is a single group, they are all legitimate targets.

      But the van that arrived at the scene was not. It was a different group of people, they did not see the previous group armed or engaged. Rendering assistance to incapacitated wounded is not illegal. Furthermore, the first group itself - once they became wounded and incapacitated enough to unable to use weapons (throwing your away and rolling in pain on the road counts), they also become protected persons. It's why the guy in the chopper didn't kill the wounded (hence also his remark "cmon, all you need to do is pick up a gun" - if the wounded would have done that, he could fire).

      That's why spies and illegal combatants can be executed. That's why soldiers who wear the enemy uniform can be executed without trial. That's why, in order to receive the protections of the GC YOU MUST WEAR A UNIFORM.

      Yes, but only if you are a combatant. Note that there is still no such thing as an "illegal combatant" - it's a US invention. There are combatants that are not protected by the Conventions, such as spies, or attackers under false flag. They are not called "illegal combatants" anywhere in GC, however. And civilians are always protected - and if someone is not clearly a combatant (i.e. either they wear uniform, or carry guns, or perform a hostile action towards you), then they are to be considered civilians.

      Another correction - it doesn't have to be a uniform, just a clearly identifiable sign that is universally used by that side (e.g. an armband will do). This is because self-organized citizen militias resisting occupying force are explicitly permitted under GC, and they may not have the means to procure proper uniforms. In this case, of course, it is entirely theoretical since none of the people in the video were wearing any signs.

      If you carry weapons and no uniform in a battle zone, you do not receive the protections of the GC

      True. What about the van now? They had no weapons.

    173. Re:Not on wikileaks? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Right, but lottery-winning odds are outside of the ROE, which would be the point. Theoretically one of the Iraqis could spit a pumpkin seed far enough and in just the right way to kill a soldier, but that's not enough to justify death either.

    174. Re:Not on wikileaks? by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      Theoretically one of the Iraqis could spit a pumpkin seed far enough and in just the right way to kill a soldier

      No, that is not even theoretically possible.

      due to personal experience with how far that really is, I'd be really impressed to see anything rocket-propelled (without guidance) fly that far

      Are you claiming that it actually can’t fly that far, or are you claiming that since it’s unguided it’s very unlikely to hit you?

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    175. Re:Not on wikileaks? by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      Sure it is, the target could swallow it wrong and choke on it.

      It is my understanding that you would need a much larger rocket to attain that kind of distance. Wire-guided rockets are sometimes that big, but I'm not aware of any of the little ones having performance characteristics of that type.

      Again, do feel free to look it up.

    176. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Indeed, this fallacy keeps popping up. If I commit severe crimes and attempt to cover it up you have the right, and I would even dare to say *duty*, to violate my privacy for justice.

      Not without sufficient evidence of the crimes to convince a judge that it's worth violating your privacy for justice. If you skip that step, even if you do uncover crimes, the evidence is inadmissible in court in most progressive countries.

      You have to remember that any procedures you come up with for dealing with crimes have to function both when the suspect is guilty and when he's innocent, since you cannot know before-hand whether or not the suspect is guilty or innocent.

    177. Re:Not on wikileaks? by MoriT · · Score: 1

      Except that Assange has made it clear that he doesn't believe this is about him, but rather is a government dealing. So it should be fair game; I hope to see it hosted on WikiLeaks tomorrow.

    178. Re:Not on wikileaks? by hubie · · Score: 1

      I find it fascinating where people decide to make the world black and white and where they like their grays. I hear people arguing about how these government documents should be released because "we" pay our taxes, etc., etc., etc. I personally don't see how releasing these diplomatic papers, some of which contain frank and candid assessments that may embarrass or chagrin diplomatic counterparts and thus strain our relationships with countries, be in the best interest of anyone, particularly the US. Buy hey, if that is where you want to draw your black and white divider, then fine. The problem in these situations is you (here, I'm using the figurative "you"; I'm not saying you) choose some high and absolute truth then lay down these black-and-white lines (you're with me or against me). Then because reality never neatly fits in the black-and-white model, you need to start lawyering up explanations. In this case apparently every utterance by any person representing the government is a relevant political fact. Really? What if it is wrong, and hence not a fact? Is the fact that someone multi-layers down on some org chart is wrong, or has their own assessment of something that is not necessarily in agreement with official government policy now a relevant political fact?

      The other thing I don't understand is the corporation angle. I haven't bothered to learn what the arguments are regarding justifying the desire to release corporate secrets. Regarding Tiger Woods, he is a corporation. He makes WAY more money on his name and image than playing golf, so that should justify releasing every little detail about him, by these arguments. Clearly it is our right to not only see and digest every sex-related text, but all his texts, emails, and the frequency of his bowel movements. I would appreciate it if someone could summarize this argument for me; at first blush it sounds like they are striving for the kind of simplistic and unrealistic world that Ayn Rand liked to place her protagonists, you know where Reardon's steel was so superior to everyone else's that he wasn't allowed to compete on contracts (pardon my memory, but it has been decades since I read that). Or do I have it wrong and they're not proposing that all corporate secrets be opened, just the ones pertaining to government relations?

    179. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      I don't know if you've watched the full video, or just Assange's edit of it. If you watched the full one you know that at several points they asked for clearance to fire

      The edited version ALSO shows them begging for permission to shoot the wounded man with hollow point bullets, again.

      They ask for permission to commit war crimes, they get permission to commit war crime, and then the pentagon and state department cover up those war crimes.

      Don't pretend that Wikileaks edited out the soldiers asking for permission to shoot, they didn't. They don't just ask, you can hear the bloodlust in their voice, they really want to shoot them. And then they just don't care about shooting kids. It's disgusting, not only to commit such acts, but also to cover them up and to defend them and to dismiss the horror of it all as normal, acceptable, or deserved.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    180. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. That's a complete lie. Informant's names were absolutely not redacted in the first massive release.

      That is bullshit and lies, absolutely. Are you intentionally trolling, or just grossly misinformed?

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    181. Re:Not on wikileaks? by moonbender · · Score: 1

      Your interpretation of humanitarian law is both lopsided and overly simplistic.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    182. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I completely disagree. It happens all too often that the military claims that they killed terrorists or insurgents. Later it is revealed that what they actually attacked was a wedding.

      The military claims that it doesn't torture. Then we learn about Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo.

      I am a former soldier and I don't trust the military leadership as far as I could spit a rat.

    183. Re:Not on wikileaks? by pipatron · · Score: 1

      Are you talking about the pentagon now, or what are you actually talking about? Because the last I heard from the government of the United States is that the leaks did not contain anything that would endanger human lives, even though they said so before the leaks were published.

      That was long before the accusations against Assange, that may or may not be true.

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    184. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what do you think is inside the insurance file?

    185. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I watched the entire video and Assange is still a hero to me. This kind of information can make people decide that the war isn't worth fighting and elect politicians who will put a stop to it. In the long run it can save lives on both sides.

      He didnt say that he thought killing was fun. He was sayng that was how some in the military see it.

    186. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Lanboy · · Score: 1

      Oops, you missed earlier when they were WITH A GUY WITH A FUCKING RPG.

    187. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand, if there *is* something shady going on, the public needs to know about it.

      Shady? Like what?
      Is it "Innocent until proven guilty" shady?
      Is it shady that the investigation is still in progress and no accusations have been made?

    188. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Lanboy · · Score: 1

      Oh look, here is wikileaks RELEASING THE PERSONAL DETAILS OF AN INDIVIDUAL'S SEX AFFAIRS.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/17/tj-hemlinger-emails_n_798104.html

    189. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if YOU read the reports from the troops on the ground, you would know that there WERE RPGs found on the bodies, among other weapons. The militants were armed, and US troops followed the rules of engagement. I don't know why this is still being debated.

      Ethan McCord was the man in the video taking the children from the van. His words exactly:
      "However, when I did come up on the scene, there was an RPG as well as AK-47s there.... You just don't walk around with an RPG in Iraq, especially three blocks away from a firefight.... Personally, I believe the first attack on the group standing by the wall was appropriate, was warranted by the rules of engagement. They did have weapons there. However, I don't feel that the attack on the [rescue] van was necessary." (Source: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/04/2007-iraq-apache-attack-as-seen-from-the-ground)

      His only qualm with the event was the fact that we attacked the "rescue" van as well. Unfortunately, that's an issue of morals because the rules state that Iraqi's are not supposed to pick up their wounded.

      And, as a side note, shame on the parent for putting his kids in danger. I don't care who was wounded and on the ground, I can't think of ONE person who would endanger their child's life like that.

    190. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The dude believes in total transparency, if its good for the State Department it should be good enough for Assange.

      Le'me guess... next time you are going to tell me that the corporations do need to have all the rights a citizen have and must be allowed to vote, isn't it?

    191. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its illegal to be a BNP member and hold certain jobs with the UK government

      If the BNP is classified as a political party and not a criminal organization would not this been challenged in the ECHR already? I would guess there are no victims yet to challenge the law.

    192. Re:Not on wikileaks? by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      If you don't wear a uniform and move in a group with others who have weapons, you are, for every legal measure, a legal target to engage. Period.

      So I can just shoot hostages now since they are moving with the target?

      There are now three men and they are moving together. One has a gun. How many are civilians.

      If this were the US, all of them although the one with the weapon would likely have the cops make them drop the weapon etc.

      Now then, that's not to say innocent civilians are not killed. That unfortunately does happen. But the reality is, all too often, reported civilian deaths, actually died with a weapon in their hand.

      If I lived in such a country, you can bet your ass I'd have a weapon on me at all times.

    193. Re:Not on wikileaks? by snowgirl · · Score: 2

      In the Common Law systems of the United States, client-attorney privilege only applies to solicitation of legal advice, and thus donations through a lawyer or lawyer group can likely be disclosed by any simple court order.

      Now, if you go to them and ask them how to legally donate to Wikileaks anonymously, then they cannot disclose any information about that.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    194. Re:Not on wikileaks? by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      Do you seriously not see any difference between the privacy of an individual and the transparency of government/corporate dealings?

      Not when someone pulls the morals card, sorry, no.
      Transparency is one thing, morals are another. Assange should know this by now.

    195. Re:Not on wikileaks? by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      This would be hypocritical if wikileaks leaked something like Tiger Woods' sex messages to his mistress or something along the lines of that. Plenty of sites posted that information, and possibly lots of trashy tabloids and gossip magazines - but wikileaks did not.

      There is no honor among thieves might be apt.

      Who cries when someone mugs Robin Hood?

    196. Re:Not on wikileaks? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Wikileaks shouldn't have been editing *anything* (minus necessary redactions to protect names of informants, etc). They have, themselves, flat out stated they aren't journalists. They just leak things. Well, if that's true, there should be no editorializing at all. At best, they should leak *all* the original materials, and provide time indexes to things they deem "interesting".

      Since they provided unedited video as well, that's essentially what they did.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    197. Re:Not on wikileaks? by stdarg · · Score: 1

      It requires re-thinking when you're involved in a war where the enemy does not wear uniforms or badges, does not have any official government or centralized leadership that you can negotiate with, and has the support of at least part of the local population.

      But even accepting your style of thinking about it, what does the rigid definition say about the standard of certainty? What if you're pretty sure someone has a gun but they're not exposing it yet? How about if it's exposed but they're not aiming it or shooting? How about if they drop their guns whenever they see you, but pick them up and shoot at you as you drive away?

      I think there's more nuance, even in the existing rigid rules, than you are giving credit. To pretend the situation is so clear cut that it warrants being called a war crime seems ridiculous.

    198. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      Since they provided unedited video as well

      What part of the original timeline don't you understand? I can only assume it's the part where they *didn't release an unedited version right away*. Which seems rather key to the entire argument.

      And as an aside, why are you such an unabashed Wikileaks apologist? Can you not admit they simply fucked up, here?

    199. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can we have a real quote instead, idiot? Not going to watch twelve hours of video for a moron like you. Thanks.

    200. Re:Not on wikileaks? by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      I think it's you who are falling for the propaganda.

      The powerful political figures lambasted Wikileaks in the media, stating that these leaks put informants and agents at risk of death.
      They didn't, at the time, know exactly what was leaked.

      The CIA, FBI, and other groups that are actually _involved_ in this shit, rather than just being talking heads, went through it, and stated that no such people were put at risk by what was leaked.

      In some cases, yes, "citation needed" means "I'm too lazy to look it up."

      In this case, though, it means "There is significant, reliable evidence to contradict your assertion. Please back up your statement with facts, other than the 'common knowledge' logical fallacy."

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    201. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they just wanted to kill people they could've just gone ahead and done it.

      And they did. It was apparently a lot of fun too.

    202. Re:Not on wikileaks? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The situation becomes clear cut once you look at the bodies and see dead civilians - it's as simple as that. If later investigation had shown that people in the van were insurgents, I don't think anyone would have questioned the judgement of the soldiers who fired on it. Point being, if you make a life or death decision based on clearly insufficient information, you'd better accept full responsibility when you are wrong. That, or don't make such decisions until a certain minimum required standard of evidence is met (such that you're not considered guilty even if ultimately wrong). This is not fundamentally different from how lethal self defence is handled in civilian courts.

      As for it being a wrong kind of war - well yeah, that tends to happen when you invade other countries. But again US has full control over it - it can withdraw at any time - so it is not really a good excuse.

    203. Re:Not on wikileaks? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      So nuke the place and be done with it then.

    204. Re:Not on wikileaks? by stdarg · · Score: 1

      The situation becomes clear cut once you look at the bodies and see dead civilians - it's as simple as that. If later investigation had shown that people in the van were insurgents, I don't think anyone would have questioned the judgement of the soldiers who fired on it.

      In cases where the dead civilians are well known and documented such as this one, yes, but I wouldn't say that's true in general. How can you tell a dead civilian from a dead insurgent after the fact?

      Regardless, I think the situation as it exists in the moment of judgment is more important than hindsight.

      This is not fundamentally different from how lethal self defence is handled in civilian courts.

      That's an interesting way of looking at it, and I wonder what courts would say about the standard of doubt in a self defense case during a time of war in an active battle. I'm no legal expert and I don't know cases off hand, but it seems like a person's judgment in assessing "Is my life in danger? Is that person going to kill me?" must depend on circumstance as well as the precise person in question.

      As for it being a wrong kind of war - well yeah, that tends to happen when you invade other countries. But again US has full control over it - it can withdraw at any time - so it is not really a good excuse.

      Well it's not the USA that would be convicted of war crimes, it's the particular soldiers in question, and they obviously do not have full control over the invasion, withdrawal, or pretty much anything.

    205. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Jotii · · Score: 1

      Hmmm. divulging that one of the political aids has a brain tumor that may not be treatable and another is suspected of having HIV, seems to be both personal and private information.

      Did the cables actually contain this information? I cannot find any reference to it.

      --
      [sig]
    206. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Agree with most, except for the "root password to the Constitution" issue of child porn.

      For any other crime, including rape of an adult by an adult, possessing pictures (photographic evidence that a crime was committed) is not in itself a crime.

      Criminalizing possession of evidence of a crime simply leads to more people being framed.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    207. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      This is what happens when you refuse to wear a uniform.

      Nice. I refuse to wear a uniform. So I should be shot in your war zone for being too close to a journalist?

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    208. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      The terrorists there are very propaganda savvy and use it for all its worth.

      The aggressors are very propaganda savvy, and they also use it for all it's worth.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    209. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      its extremely common to be shooting by the time you're six. Furthermore, children are commonly seen shooting at soldiers in that part of the world.

      Really? You say this a lot, but do not provide any verifiable links.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    210. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      The facts of the situation is, it doesn't matter that children were involved. Anyone who brings it up are attempting to manipulate emotion. The fact of the matter is, YOU brought up the children.

      Let me see if I get you straight: "The facts of the situation is, it doesn't matter what the facts of the situation were."

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    211. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      This is what happens when you don't wear uniforms.

      Do you wear your uniform to bed?

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    212. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      This is all why people in the area are constantly told to not carry weapons.

      Yeah, I think it's more about disarming the populace, but then I'm old and treacherous.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    213. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      And civilians are always protected - and if someone is not clearly a combatant (i.e. either they wear uniform, or carry guns, or perform a hostile action towards you), then they are to be considered civilians.

      I am reminded of a short-lived series, "Over There", about our foreign war (I think it was Afghanistan, but it may have been after we attacked Iraq without provocation). There was an episode where a local had a house which had a bunch of money hidden in the walls, and the Americans infiltrated and took the money. The owner came home, and started shooting at the thieves, only the thieves had much bigger weapons than the owner and killed him. That was the turning point for me.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    214. Re:Not on wikileaks? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      You seem to be devolving the later it got last night.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    215. Re:Not on wikileaks? by thijsh · · Score: 1

      I strongly agree with you. Possession should not be punished so harshly because it probably reduces the chances of catching the perpetrators. However I still think these pictures should be reported (and in some cases anonymous leaking might help protect the person who finds this pictures from prosecution) to be able to catch the guys actually molesting the kids...

    216. Re:Not on wikileaks? by thijsh · · Score: 1

      I agree that a government should be fully transparent, realistically however they need to be able to keep some secrets 'private'... And in that regard people and governments privacy are roughly the same... Privacy should be respected unless you have proof of a crime. It does not mean posting all personal data of someone online nor does it mean invalidation of all privacy, it just means that relevant data for prosecution of the crime ceases to be private.

    217. Re:Not on wikileaks? by thijsh · · Score: 1

      Only a court can establish guilt, and without proof there is no way this can happen. You have a catch 22 there if you value privacy so much that you cannot 'leak' proof of wrongdoing. So in my opinion when you find proof that in your best judgement implicates someone you have a right to violate that persons privacy by releasing this proof to the authorities (same goes for corporations or governments).

      Note that what is happening to Assange has nothing to do with anything remotely connected to proof or even the semblance of a proper legal process. But still, if I were to come upon photo's of Assange fucking a handcuffed and beaten woman I would violate his privacy and release that photo even if it may be a fake and I don't like what is going on at all. I can't establish guilt alone and I surely would not censor this information because I think it's in the greater good, as if I know what's best for everyone... That would go against everything Wikileaks stands for.

    218. Re:Not on wikileaks? by thijsh · · Score: 1

      Use your own best judgement. But I personally would say yes.

    219. Re:Not on wikileaks? by thijsh · · Score: 1

      You make no sense. Making a private thing publicly available violates privacy by definition. And you can still presume innocence even when you come upon evidence you can think: 'this guy could just as well be innocent, I'd better leave it to the proper authorities to figure this out and let the guy defend himself in a court'. Just violating the privacy for one wrong thing does not negate the presumption of innocence, and given the fact that you cannot establish guilt but a court can doesn't that imply you should leak this information especially to honor the persons right to a fair trial.

    220. Re:Not on wikileaks? by thijsh · · Score: 1

      You find video of rape and murder, it may be real, it may be acted. Let the court decide after the people involved have their say... Just assuming nothing is up and leaving it at that is morally despicable. You can still assume innocence, but that does not mean you should not act on the information.

    221. Re:Not on wikileaks? by thijsh · · Score: 1

      Yes, I agree. In my personal opinion governments should be fully transparent. Even for state secrets information should be publicly made available exactly why something is secret, by who's authority and for how long. And the reason 'for national security' is not admissible, only a description of what threats would come from releasing the information publicly. You can have transparency *and* some secrets, as long as it's transparent how much is secret and why.

      Right now governments have shown that they do not responsibly label things secret, so citizens have no transparent way of checking if their reasons are valid (and they have been proven multiple times to be completely invalid reasons like covering up war crimes and corruption). Because of this I think it's the right of the people to leak all secret information they come upon. It's the government who brought this upon themselves, and the only way to prevent this is transparency the people can check and trust in.

    222. Re:Not on wikileaks? by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      What you propose is not justice, that's vigilanteeism. While you might not be the guy that puts the noose around the neck it appears you are happy to stand in the background with a pitch fork.

      There is a huge difference between leaking the private affairs of individuals (what you are proposing) and those of corporations and governments (which Wikileaks restricts itself to).

      I your own example how do you know that the photograph was not of a woman who was willing to be handcuffed at the time (some people actually do practice such things and enjoy it)- even if she changed her story later?

      Maybe you ought to spend more time thinking about your position.

    223. Re:Not on wikileaks? by thijsh · · Score: 1

      No, vigilantism would be when I found pictures of a guy raping a kid and I would kill him myself or post his address on the web with the intent of letting other vigilantes 'take care' of the problem. The morally right thing to do is leak/report this information to the authorities and give the guy a fair trial. Are you really saying to me that because the guy *might* be innocent you would just do nothing and *possibly* allow him to continue to rape other children? Are you the guy who would just stand by and look away and let terrible shit happen? You have to admit there is a line you have to draw somewhere...

      I mentioned that I considered the option that the photo in question did not show a crime, but it was a deliberately tricky example. When there is sufficient reason to suspect a crime you can report it and still assume innocence, but leave the person to the court and to exercise his right to a defense and fair trial.

      You are right that corporations and government are a different matter, but mostly because there are no authorities to go to (and if you do you might find yourself in a shitload of trouble). Because of this leaking anonymously is the only option available to bring this to the publics attention. In this case you can reasonably call it vigilantism because you don't involve authorities, but take matters into your own hand to force the hand of the corporation and government. When the authorities fail at their duties you have a right to this 'vigilantism'.

  8. unprotected $ex with them... over four days by Fibe-Piper · · Score: 1

    Over the course of 4 days someone keeps saying that they are wearing a condom and they keep accepting this without proof? At some point the liability has to transfer to the foolee rather than the fooler.

    --
    I went to battle M.C. Escher, but drew a blank.
    1. Re:unprotected $ex with them... over four days by davev2.0 · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      No, dumbass. The events occurred over a total of four days. The sex did not last for four days, nor did the deception. The accounts say Assange had sex with one woman then, four days later, had sex with another woman.

      You really need to go back to elementary school and improve your reading comprehension skills.

    2. Re:unprotected $ex with them... over four days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really need to go back to elementary school...

      That's a big assumption there.

    3. Re:unprotected $ex with them... over four days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      The sex did not last for four days

      That's a relief. Those viagra ads say if you last for 4 hours, call your doctor. He would have been 92 hours overdue.

  9. So what by peragrin · · Score: 0, Troll

    That article has every known detail.

    in Sweden if the woman withdraws consent during the act it is still considered rape, with prision terms.

    If julian was half as smart as he thinks he is he wouldn't have done what he did. Instead he fscked two women without knowing the local laws regarding such things, and is in turn being fscked back.

    If you screw a woman in some countries without their father's approval beforehand it is rape. Under Islamic law if your brother rapes and beats your wife, you have to kill the wife for tempting him and forgive the brother. Why is the fact that different countries have different standards so hard for people to understand? the UK rape laws don't apply in sweden, Islamic law doesn't apply in the USA, chinese law doesn't apply in Russia.

    Why should Julian be treated any differently than any other tourist as they visit foreign lands? oh I know because he is special, god like even. he is like the Catholic church immune from doing something wrong ever, any crime he might have done is automatically a crime againist GOD and therefore not really a crime.

    He freely admits he slept with both of those women. he is trying this case in the court of public opinion because he knows he will lose in a court of law because he is guilty, of a crime in sweden. i don't have to like the swedish law but I do have to respect it when i am there.

    --
    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    1. Re:So what by spun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So in Sweden you are guilty until proven innocent? I know that women's groups in Sweden were trying to make rape a "guilty until proven innocent" crime, but I thought the Swedes sensibly rejected that unjust notion.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    2. Re:So what by iammani · · Score: 5, Informative

      in Sweden if the woman withdraws consent during the act it is still considered rape, with prision terms.

      The point of contention is not the swedish law, but whether the consent was actually withdrawn and the credibility of the womens' statement. The women seem to have continued their relationship with Assange, despite the rape and condom-break incident, which makes their claims sound a bit dubious.

    3. Re:So what by commodore64_love · · Score: 5, Informative

      >>>in Sweden if the woman withdraws consent

      There is no evidence this happened. All we have is two women who were apparently happy with Julian, but then they met each other and discovered he was two-timing, and suddenly the women weren't happy. i.e. We only have their word and their word is suspect, because they have motive to lie (to get back at the creep).

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    4. Re:So what by Beetle+B. · · Score: 1

      If you screw a woman in some countries without their father's approval beforehand it is rape. Under Islamic law if your brother rapes and beats your wife, you have to kill the wife for tempting him and forgive the brother.

      You had me until you started spouting drivel.

      What other silly stereotypes do you harbor, I wonder?

      --
      Beetle B.
    5. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Under Islamic law if your brother rapes and beats your wife, you have to kill the wife for tempting him and forgive the brother.

      [Citation Needed]

      If anything, that would be more of a cultural practice in some parts of some countries, like certain villages of Pakistan, rather than an Islamic law. There really isn't such a law where you have to kill the wife because the brother raped her.

    6. Re:So what by 91degrees · · Score: 2

      They've made the accusation. It's evidence. Not very strong evidence I'll grant you but certainly adeuquate to bring him in and ask him.

    7. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hehe, nice to see such informed trolls on slashdot 'under islamic law if your brother rapes and beats your wife, you have to kill the wife...', i guess you wrote the book on shariat?

    8. Re:So what by airfoobar · · Score: 1

      Are you telling me to respect the laws of countries where women get raped and it's their fault so they get killed as a result? In the UK, we live by British morals and British justice, and any stupid Swedish laws about unprotected sex between consenting adults being considered rape don't amount to much. With that said, I will fight Assange's extradition like I would fight the extradition of a woman from an insane Islamic country who came to the UK looking for sanctuary from her murdering husband.

    9. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a strange post. You assume, without addressing the issue directly, that Assange did what he is accused of. I'm sure his defence will be that he did not, and given the backgrounds and connections of his accusers there is every chance that he is telling the truth.

      The issue is not one of Assange expecting preferential treatment because of Wikileaks, or of him respecting foreign laws while in a foreign country. To pretend that these are the issues is classic straw-man debating.

      The question is quite simply whether Assange did what he is accused of. He quite probably did not.

    10. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's spelled "fucked" you idiot! Learn to spell! Meantime laws that are assigned or patently unfair shouldn't be honored as legitimate. You go know that at least one if the women fucked Assange again willing after the alleged incident. You cannot allow a double standard so as to allow women to cry rape as soon as she finds out she not the only birch getting it. Assange should just likewise claim he was raped when he "withdrew consent" and be done with it. Then it's a he said/she said thing. Of course doing this would expose the obvious double standard here.

    11. Re:So what by waleedk · · Score: 1

      Under Islamic law if your brother rapes and beats your wife, you have to kill the wife for tempting him and forgive the brother.

      This is categorically wrong. Islamic law has no such injunction, and this is the type of utter drivel and FUD that makes it hard for Muslims and non-Muslims to co-exist. Rape is a punishable crime in Islam, regardless of who commits it.

      I challenge you to present any evidence of your claim.

    12. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Under Islamic law if your brother rapes and beats your wife, you have to kill the wife for tempting him and forgive the brother."

      Anything to back this statement up, or are you relying on "truthiness"

    13. Re:So what by jpbelang · · Score: 1

      If you screw a woman in some countries without their father's approval beforehand it is rape.

      And I would think they would have tons of trouble having you extradited from the U.S. or the U.K. Not that this has anything to do with the case at hand.

      --
      JP http://www.wearerite.com
    14. Re:So what by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Insightful

      exactly

      assange is a human being with human weaknesses, like all of us

      however, this particular flawed man started a movement for transparency which is laudable

      the proper response is to pay homage to the man for his good works, and chastise him for his transgressions in the bedroom, at the same time

      but apparently people can only process assange as devil or angel. when of course, this is a gross simplification that serves nothing other than to mark the person as an idiot who cannot bring himself to chastise the man (or laud the man)

      you who say "assange can do no wrong" or "assange can do no right", which is the starting point for many comments here, you are no better than the chattering monkeys who engage in celebrity worship on TMZ. you are simply no better if you cannot bring yourself to repudiate the man for his transgressions in the bedroom (or if you can't bring yourself to praise the man for his transparency efforts)

      the man, honestly, means nothing. but the MOVEMENT he helped start (and will not stop, with or without him) remains a permanent virtue on his permanent record (just as permanent as the rapes)

      yes, assange did something good in the world. he also did something wrong. it is possible for you to acknowledge both. so do it, and free yourself from shallow pointless celebrity worship, which is what you do when you mindlessly defend assange on an UNRELATED ISSUE to his transparency work

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    15. Re:So what by Theaetetus · · Score: 1, Insightful

      in Sweden if the woman withdraws consent during the act it is still considered rape, with prision terms.

      The point of contention is not the swedish law, but whether the consent was actually withdrawn and the credibility of the womens' statement. The women seem to have continued their relationship with Assange, despite the rape and condom-break incident, which makes their claims sound a bit dubious.

      And? Their credibility should be judged by a jury, at trial.

    16. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Under Islamic law if your brother rapes and beats your wife, you have to kill the wife for tempting him and forgive the brother.

      Honour killings are part of the persistent pre-Islamic traditions, NOT part of Islamic law. Same goes for female circumcision (a common misconception on Slashdot). Please do not attribute such items to Islamic law.

    17. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Definitely they are either members of a coven or moles...It's way too obvious now.

    18. Re:So what by blair1q · · Score: 0, Troll

      And he has motive to lie (to stay out of jail). And more motive to lie (to keep from proving his worldwide detractors wrong about his judgment and character). And still more motive to lie (because he's a douchebag).

      So, Assange loses and the women remain credible.

    19. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Rape is a punishable crime in Islam, regardless of who commits it.

      Dude, if you're trying to uphold Islam as a bastion of protection for women, you're in for a long and uphill battle.

      Women can't effectively report rape in muslim countries, because they are required to provide four (yes, four) witnesses. Go look at Qur'an (24:4) and Qur'an (24:13) for details.

    20. Re:So what by wmac · · Score: 1

      Muslims have such rule? I have never heard about that in my 40 years of life and I have lived many years in Muslim countries? Unless you want to invent that or you want to put isolated local pathetic rules under the name of the religion.

    21. Re:So what by wmac · · Score: 1

      He is spreading FUD. There is no such rule in Islam. It might be a pathetic local tribe rule.

    22. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is actually how rape laws work in Saudi Arabia - men are incapable of rape and women are responsible for being raped.

    23. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Under Islamic law if your brother rapes and beats your wife, you have to kill the wife for tempting him and forgive the brother."

      As a Muslim, I can only wonder which Fox news reader you heard this from. Do you even know a Muslim? There are a billion and a half of us, so it wouldn't be hard to find one and cure your ignorance.

    24. Re:So what by Artefacto · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A jury? In Sweden?

    25. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The question is quite simply whether Assange did what he is accused of. He quite probably did not.

      Given Assange's penchant for self promotion and inflated view of himself (he wants to meet third-world women because they have suffered and Western women are too boring; really? What an ass. He's just a reincarnation of the insufferable "euro intellectuals" from the 80's went on and on about how everything that came out of Europe was so superior to everything else), I don't put it past him to be encouraging these charges. It is letting him play the martyr. "The US Government wants to silence me! To arms! Come to my defense and give me money to fight the oppressor!" Like hosting his files on Amazon knowing they'd pull him off, and then use that to validate his censorship. Wikileaks isn't about any high-minded philosophy of openness, or if it started that way it isn't that way any more. It is about Assange's ego.

    26. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Sweden: http://www.eutimes.net/2009/06/amnesty-international-swedish-rapists-enjoy-impunity/
      In Sweden according to AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL many Swedish young girls experience their first sexual contact and lose their virginity raped by immigrants. Amnesty’s most damning criticism of Sweden relates to the considerable disparity between the number of rapes reported and the conviction rate. ... less than 13 percent of the 3,535 rape crimes reported resulted in a decision to start legal proceedings. Amnesty slams the Swedish judicial system and the prevalence of attrition within it, concluding that, “in practice, many perpetrators enjoy impunity.” Here is a more stinging article about the situation: http://www.globalpolitician.com/25869-sweden-immigration-islam - Peragrin as you see islamic laws apply somehow.

      Money, interpol and putting national reputation at a stake are considered acceptable losses by this nation...The question comes natural... can it be all without foreing intervenction? Can it be this way in a country where just 5% of all domestic rape cases is even prosecuted????? Pirate Bay Raids anyone????

    27. Re:So what by davev2.0 · · Score: 1

      And what gives one person, Assange, greater credibility than two other people?

    28. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >And? Their credibility should be judged by a jury, at trial.

      Indeed, but the following line of the grandparent post was this:

      >>>If julian was half as smart as he thinks he is he wouldn't have done what he did.

      Which seems to be making a judgement before a trial, no?

    29. Re:So what by davev2.0 · · Score: 1

      If you believe Assange, you may, be right. But, that is a question for the court.

      If you want to get into whose word is suspect, you have referred to Assange as a creep; his actions and reputation make his word just as suspect as theirs and there are two accusers with similar stories.

    30. Re:So what by cdrguru · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I believe the proper term is Sharia law, not Islamic. You can find all sorts of charming references about Sharia and rape on the Internet and I'm not going to dump them all out here.

      One that is very common and enforced in at least Pakistan and Iran is the requirement that a woman have four witnesses to a rape or else she is charged with adultery.

      While I haven't seen any reference to specifically "forgiving" a brother after a rape, there are certainly ample references to situations where a woman's family is expected to kill her because of a rape. Rape is assumed in most cases to be the woman's fault which leads to women being kept as virtual prisoners in their homes and being covered head to toe when they are allowed outside.

      No, Sharia law isn't the rule in all Islamic countries as you don't see women being stoned to death in Egypt or Turkey. But increasingly in non-Islamic countries Sharia law is being given precedence over local laws for violations between Muslims. This is happening in the US, Australia, Germany and the UK.

    31. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you talking about? That is a perfectly reasonable assessment of the situation. Living a mostly monogamous world, it is logical to assume that two people, upon finding out that their lover was not being exclusive, would not be happy.

    32. Re:So what by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      If you screw a woman in some countries without their father's approval beforehand it is rape. Under Islamic law if your brother rapes and beats your wife, you have to kill the wife for tempting him and forgive the brother. Why is the fact that different countries have different standards so hard for people to understand? the UK rape laws don't apply in sweden, Islamic law doesn't apply in the USA, chinese law doesn't apply in Russia.

      Indeed. An act considered criminal in one country could be legitimate elsewhere. But extradition may require balancing the laws of both lands when considering the act for which extradition is requested.
      Suppose a woman fled to the West after being raped by her husband's brother in a country which applied the Islamic law to which you referred. Do you suggest that she should be extradited to be executed for being a victim? Should she volunteer to return to her death out of a respect for that law?

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    33. Re:So what by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

      You point out all the various different laws in different countries. Country A does not extradite someone to country B for a crime that isn't a crime in country A. Otherwise we're all pretty much criminals.

      The broken condom is pretty much a non-starter. Things happen, they break. They *both* knew this was a possibility.

      Telling a woman you're going to use one and then not using it - that can be grounds for assault (again depending on jurisdiction) since you could be infecting them with something. Likewise the "while she's asleep" charge is probably an extraditable offense for the same reason.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    34. Re:So what by sgtrock · · Score: 3, Informative

      yes, assange did something good in the world. he also did something wrong.

      While I don't condone his lying to both women, I'm still not convinced that he did anything that would be regarded as illegal even under Swedish law's definition of rape. There's certainly plenty of evidence that both women spent plenty of time with him socially after the fact. There's even some evidence that these women didn't really press charges even after they found out about each other until _after_ someone in the prosecutor's office started pushing them. In the end, though, his final guilt or innocence is for a trial to decide.

      However, I'm not sure that he's ever going to get a fair hearing. Based upon the correspondence that has been released by his lawyers in Britain and Sweden, I'm FIRMLY convinced that the way his rights have been trampled by British and Swedish law enforcement go far beyond the point that a fair and impartial judge would declare the Swedish equivalent of a mistrial. In this circus-like, witch hunt atmosphere? Doubtful at best.

    35. Re:So what by medv4380 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There is no more or less evidence then there is in most rape cases of this kind. This is more of a Date Rape then the stalker rape, and Date Rape is always a He Said She Said situation. There is no evidence to support your claim that this is a vendetta for him cheating on them. If anything they slept with him because they were drawn to his celebrity status, and if they were aware he was in the habit of sleeping with any woman who threw themselves at him they would of course want a condom used. Mostly out of fear of an STD or they just didn't want his kids. Then we have his dating profile from years back and it sounds a bit too much like the guy who just wants to get a woman pregnant. Also condoms don't break that easily unless you're doing it on purpose or are an idiot. I've seen a condom stretched around a microphone and not break. So he ether got one that was way too large like the guys in India have a problem with the condoms being too big, or he put it on wrong but since it broke before he was finished the pinching an inch wasn't the issue since that only breaks when you're done, it may have been defective which can happen but is very rare, or he diliberatly sabotaged it like when a woman uses vasoline knowing that it will break the condom.

      I'm personally more of the it's a conspiracy kind though but not by the government. It's a conspiracy by Assange to create more media attention and give him a way to release his Black Mail insurance file, and claim they were trying to silence him.

    36. Re:So what by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Look up Shia law sometime. There is such laws.

      I knew a turkey man who killed not only his wife but two out of three daughters because his brother slept with his wife.

      It is very real, just because you are ignorant doesn't mean the rest of us are.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    37. Re:So what by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

      yes, it is wrong to rush to judgment

      as equally as wrong as your attitude, which is obviously extremely eager to absolve him of guilt

      frankly, it just doesn't fucking matter to his work on transparency, but the way the human mind works, we can't merely discuss the genuinely important topic of transparency, we have to engage in mindless pointless celebrity worship and revilement, and therefore be completely distracted as to any worthwhile discussion

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    38. Re:So what by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Assange has stated he slept with those women. To say otherwise is to consider him a liar. So he did sleep with those women.

      Now under Swedish law if he slept with them and they withdrew consent it is considered rape. So if they said stop not without the condom while he was screwing them then it is rape under swedish law.

      It is a he said she said crime. you are saying he is innocent while ignoring the fact that not just one, but two women have accused him of the same thing.What happens if 5 more show up is he still innocent?

      How many boys can a Catholic priest fondle before it is bad? 1? 2? 10? Julian is not fighting this in court but in the media. why is that? This shouldn't be news.

      I have never stated that I thought the swedish law was fair or right, but only that the law exists.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    39. Re:So what by Lashat · · Score: 1

      Even though the women still hung around with Assange does not carry the weight you might think. I'm guessing that this could be the same in Sweden as in the US because it's not a letter of the law issue, but a natural progression of reporting any crime. Once the women made their statements to the police, a prosecutor (a law professional with a degree) can extrapolate charges from the statements that the women may have never intended to be brought against the individual.

      For a REALLY simplistic example. I'm a bar owner and I file a destruction of property complaint against two guys that got in a fight in my bar. After the police investigation. They both are charged with destruction of property because they destroyed a table. In addition, they both pick up assualt charges. One gets an assualt with a deadly weapon charge because he weilded a broken table leg like a club. The other guy gets assualt with great bodily injury (California) because he broke the first guys arm to avoid getting hit with the table leg. It can go on and on.

      --
      For every benefit you receive a tax is levied. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
    40. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And he has motive to lie (to stay out of jail). And more motive to lie (to keep from proving his worldwide detractors wrong about his judgment and character). And still more motive to lie (because he's a douchebag).

      So, Assange loses and the women remain credible.

      Troll harder.

    41. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Centipedes? In my vagina?

    42. Re:So what by wmac · · Score: 1

      Turkey does not have Shia. I very well (I mean really well) know Shia rules. Major Shia countries are Iran, southern Iraq and southern Lebanon.

    43. Re:So what by mu22le · · Score: 1

      And what gives one person, Assange, greater credibility than two other people?

      This one thing, you might not be very familiar with, called "presumption of innocence until proven guilty". That said, I have no reason to doubt the sweedish judiciary system and I am waiting for the virdict to form a final opinion.

    44. Re:So what by commodore64_love · · Score: 2

      Not really.

      There was a case where some woman accused a College basketball(?) team of rape. The school had a fit, suspended the accused players, and even suspended all games for the season. The players received a lot of hate from fellow students, newpaper reporters, and so on. The players had a motive to lie to save themselves, their team, and their scholarship.

      By your reasoning the woman wins ("remains credible"). But in reality she was questioned by police, found to have holes in her story, and eventually admitted she had been lying. I think that's the case here - two women lying. And even if they were telling the truth, there's no way to prove it. So "not guilty" by lack of evidence. A US Judge would dismiss this case in about 30 minutes.

      The Swedes should too.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    45. Re:So what by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Women can't effectively report rape in muslim countries, because they are required to provide four (yes, four) witnesses. Go look at Qur'an (24:4) and Qur'an (24:13) for details.

      [24:4]
      YUSUFALI: And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-
      PICKTHAL: And those who accuse honourable women but bring not four witnesses, scourge them (with) eighty stripes and never (afterward) accept their testimony - They indeed are evil-doers -
      SHAKIR: And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses, flog them, (giving) eighty stripes, and do not admit any evidence from them ever; and these it is that are the transgressors,

      [24:12]
      YUSUFALI: Why did not the believers - men and women - when ye heard of the affair,- put the best construction on it in their own minds and say, "This (charge) is an obvious lie"?
      PICKTHAL: Why did not the believers, men and women, when ye heard it, think good of their own own folk, and say: It is a manifest untruth?
      SHAKIR: Why did not the believing men and the believing women, when you heard it, think well of their own people, and say: This is an evident falsehood?
      [24:13]
      YUSUFALI: Why did they not bring four witnesses to prove it? When they have not brought the witnesses, such men, in the sight of Allah, (stand forth) themselves as liars!
      PICKTHAL: Why did they not produce four witnesses? Since they produce not witnesses, they verily are liars in the sight of Allah.
      SHAKIR: Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah.

      --
    46. Re:So what by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Then we have his dating profile from years back and it sounds a bit too much like the guy who just wants to get a woman pregnant.

      Wow. That is one crazy conclusion. It didn't even come close to sounding like that.

      It's a conspiracy by Assange to create more media attention and give him a way to release his Black Mail insurance file, and claim they were trying to silence him.

      Ah, you are one of those who have made up his mind with no evidence.
      He didn't say a word about the insurance file until a week or two ago and even then he said it was in case the organization was shut down, not just himself being mistreated. After all, he turned himself in once the british police issued a warrant and the keys to the insurance file were still not published.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    47. Re:So what by wmac · · Score: 1

      And I know Christians and people in US who did very similar things. And that's also very real.

      You cannot generalize crazy acts of crazy people to a society or religion.

      You are obviously more ignorant than me.

    48. Re:So what by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      You point out all the various different laws in different countries. Country A does not extradite someone to country B for a crime that isn't a crime in country A. Otherwise we're all pretty much criminals.

      Actually, within the EU, exactly that will happen. As one american idiot found out who mailed Nazi propaganda from the USA to Germany, and then they got him when he travelled to Denmark.

    49. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Wikipedia:

      Most Muslims in Turkey are Sunnis forming about 70-80%, and Alevis of the Shia-sect form about 20-30% of the Muslim population. There is also a Twelver Shia community which forms about 3% of the Muslim population.

      Not the majority, but it's there and it's a significant percentage of the population.

    50. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course not. You will only be convicted if it's proven, beyond reasonably doubt, that you committed a crime. Continuing sexual intercourse after the other party has declared that she/he would like you to stop will be considered rape. However, it still has to be proven and I have personally only ever heard of one such case before. I would say that unless there is violence (leading to injuries that can be documented) involved it will be nearly impossible to prove that consent was withdrawn and that the other party understood that and continued anyway.

    51. Re:So what by clone52431 · · Score: 2

      it will be nearly impossible to prove that consent was withdrawn and that the other party understood that and continued anyway.

      Which is why this ridiculous fabrication of a charge will be dropped moments before Assange is extradited to the US.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    52. Re:So what by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

      yes I should have included 'extradition treaties not withstanding' in my explanation. Does the EU include England yet?

      I still think my point stands though; barring something extreme, like the NAZI propaganda you mention, countries aren't likely to extradite you for something that they don't consider a crime.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    53. Re:So what by wmac · · Score: 1

      You are ignorant. Those are not about rape. They are about criticizing a woman of blasphemy. If you criticize a woman of blasphemy you should bring 4 witnesses.

    54. Re:So what by wmac · · Score: 1

      Not blasphemy, I meant adultery.

    55. Re:So what by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Now under Swedish law if he slept with them and they withdrew consent it is considered rape. So if they said stop not without the condom while he was screwing them then it is rape under swedish law.

      The swedish prosecutors can't seem to decide what it is exactly that he is accused of. At the moment he seems to be accused of having sex with a torn condom and having sex with a sleeping woman. I haven't (recently) seen any claims that either woman withdrew her consent at any point. But the claims against him keep shifting. We'll have to wait for the trial to receive official word of exactly what it is he is accused of doing. If either women did tell him to stop (for whatever reason) and he went ahead anyway or if he really did have sex with a sleeping women (although it is hard for me to imagine her not waking up) then I would agree that he is guilty of what is commonly referred to as rape, and not just in Sweden. Otherwise the charges against him seem absurd. The sex with a sleeping woman claim seems particularly bizarre to me. If she didn't wake up, then how did she know that he even had sex with her? I suppose those sorts of details would be revealed at a trial.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    56. Re:So what by BeanThere · · Score: 2

      And? That's why iammani didn't put them in jail, he only posted an opinion on an Internet forum.

    57. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microphone? A condom will typically hold 3 to 5 gallons before bursting.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cts-jlCUu7Y

    58. Re:So what by blair1q · · Score: 1

      I was pointing out the fact that "having motive" isn't sufficient.

      But as for your illogical comparison: The university overreacted; the police didn't.

      In Assange's case, are the police overreacting? They're not backing down based on the things the women are saying. Meanwhile, he ran and hid in another country, and is spending a lot of money (a lot of it other people's money) to stay hidden. And his defense to it all is still that it's a nefarious conspiracy being run by American intelligence agencies.

      As for credibility, this is a guy who admitted his organization got 1300 Kenyans killed, then later said his organization's activities never got anyone hurt. His credibility starts out negative, and getting caught treating women like masturbation sleeves doesn't help it.

    59. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it may make a slight difference whether you think you're the only date of a guy or whether you later find out that this guy just fscked another acquaintance a couple of days earlier or later. Especially if you know you had unprotected sex with that very guy before and he didn't tell you about his other unprotected sexual encounters.

      You may start thinking: How many times did that guy have unprotected one-night-stands before? Does he have any STDs? Have I been infected? Let's at least try to find out whether that guy had an HIV screening recently!

      I bet that if this guy wasn't "Ubermensch Julian Assange", but a poor beggar or drug-addict, and Assange weren't the alleged offender but the alleged victim, all those Wikileak fanboys and teen groupies would call foul and ask for immediate prosecution.

      My two cents and cables.

    60. Re:So what by davev2.0 · · Score: 1

      It seems like you are suggesting that the charges should not be investigated and that Assange should not be questioned because of "presumption of innocence."

      The presumption of innocence does not mean one is not prosecuted. It means that when one is accused of a crime and prosecuted, the court assumes one is innocent until the prosecution proves guilt.

      Two women have come forward and accused Assange of a crime. The police investigate the crime. The prosecutor decides if there is a case to made. The case is heard in a court. That is how it works.

    61. Re:So what by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      You may start thinking: How many times did that guy have unprotected one-night-stands before? Does he have any STDs? Have I been infected? Let's at least try to find out whether that guy had an HIV screening recently!

      Right, because the most obvious way to find out whether you’ve been exposed to an STD is to track down old sexual partners and have them tested for STDs...

      Option B: Get yourself tested.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    62. Re:So what by eli867 · · Score: 1

      Having sex with someone while they are sleeping (and thus unable to consent) is rape.

    63. Re:So what by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      And? Their credibility should be judged by a jury, at trial.

      Which they could have lined up the LAST time he was in Sweden. You know, when he asked the lead prosecutor for permission before leaving the country...

      But... they didn't...

      They waited till he hopped across the pond before getting interpol involved?

      These women obviously aren't real rape victims or they would have done something when they had him under the laws thumb the first time.

      I personally think their blatant abuse of the system causes immediate discredibility and it should be tossed out of court. If I brought up charges against you, the police brought you in, I dropped them, they let you go, and then I brought them up again - I certainly wouldn't be taken seriously.

    64. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sweden does not have juries. Trials have a judge acting as chairman, assisted by political appointees representing the political parties, acting as lay assessors or nämndemän, who act like the jury.

    65. Re:So what by Duradin · · Score: 1

      Option B: Get yourself tested after waiting long enough for the disease to have a chance to show up on the test.

      If you find out a partner has had tests you get the results instantly. Some things have an incubation period.

    66. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes, assange did something good in the world. he also did something wrong.

      The relevant question is did Assange do anything ILLEGAL. This isn't the first case of leaked US classified documents being made public.

      The US Supreme Court has already ruled in cases like this that someone who merely publishes classified information that they had no hand in stealing and is dropped in their lap committed no crime.

      Instead, the crime was committed by the one who stole/leaked the classified information.

    67. Re:So what by Artefacto · · Score: 1

      But increasingly in non-Islamic countries Sharia law is being given precedence over local laws for violations between Muslims. This is happening in the US, Australia, Germany and the UK.

      What the hell are you talking about?

    68. Re:So what by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

      if he did what the two women assert he did, he did something wrong, and should be chastised for it, whatever the legality

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    69. Re:So what by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      It was 4 months ago, though.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    70. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      . There's even some evidence that these women didn't really press charges even after they found out about each other until _after_ someone in the prosecutor's office started pushing them.

      How would someone in the prosecutor's office know about any incident in the first place ?

    71. Re:So what by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      And? Their credibility should be judged by a jury, at trial.

      Which they could have lined up the LAST time he was in Sweden. You know, when he asked the lead prosecutor for permission before leaving the country...

      But... they didn't...

      They waited till he hopped across the pond before getting interpol involved?

      These women obviously aren't real rape victims or they would have done something when they had him under the laws thumb the first time.

      I personally think their blatant abuse of the system causes immediate discredibility and it should be tossed out of court. If I brought up charges against you, the police brought you in, I dropped them, they let you go, and then I brought them up again - I certainly wouldn't be taken seriously.

      You keep using the pronoun "they" in your post, to refer to several independent parties. Allow me to fix it:

      These women obviously aren't real rape victims or [these women] would have done something when [these women] had him under the laws thumb the first time. I personally think [these women's] blatant abuse of the system causes immediate discredibility and it should be tossed out of court.

      Seem right? I justify my replacements with your hypothetical, in which you, the person who accuses me, is the same person dropping charges, bringing charges, etc.:

      If I brought up charges against you, the police brought you in, I dropped them, they let you go, and then I brought them up again - I certainly wouldn't be taken seriously.

      So, here's the thing... [These women] aren't prosecutors. [These women] aren't bringing charges, dropping them, and bringing them again. [These women] don't have control over the "law's thumb". [These women] don't have the power to command INTERPOL to post red notices.

      Now, with that in mind, let's fix your post:

      These women obviously aren't real rape victims or [the Swedish justice system] would have done something when [the prosecutor] had him under the laws thumb the first time. I personally think their blatant abuse of the system causes immediate discredibility and it should be tossed out of court. If I brought up charges against you, the police brought you in, [the prosecutor] dropped them, [the police] let you go, and then [a different prosecutor] brought them up again - I certainly wouldn't be taken seriously.

      ... but now it's incorrect. Whatever some prosecutors do has no bearing on whether you or these women are real victims and should be taken seriously. In fact, after the initial charges, both you and these women are no longer involved in the process, so how can any actions of prosecutors, after your involvement is over, have any bearing on your credibility?

    72. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Their credibility should be judged at trial." fixed that for you. (no such thing as a jury here)

    73. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He didn't run and hide in another country you fucking retard. He asked if he could leave the country and they told him he was free to go.

      Furthermore, he didn't get the Kenyans killed. Wikileaks exposed corruption in their government and they decided to try and do something about it.

    74. Re:So what by nosferatu1001 · · Score: 1

      He didnt run.

      He asked permission ot leave the country, after all charges being dropped, and was given permission to.

      He is not hidden. His whereabouts are very well known - its a condition of bail.

      Your post lacks a lot of credibility.

    75. Re:So what by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      Whatever some prosecutors do has no bearing on whether you or these women are real victims and should be taken seriously.

      Prosecutors are acting on these women's behalf - they aren't as willy-nilly as you so describe.

    76. Re:So what by Cederic · · Score: 1

      increasingly in non-Islamic countries Sharia law is being given precedence over local laws for violations between Muslims. This is happening in the US, Australia, Germany and the UK.

      Some Muslims in the UK are seeking to have cases judged by Sharia law instead of involving the UK authorities. That doesn't negate the precedence of UK law, and doesn't mean that punishments prescribed by Sharia law have any legality.

      E.g. if a contract failure is deemed to be covered by Sharia and both parties agree to have it assessed in a Sharia court (or whatever they use) and abide by its terms, then there is no case for UK law and they can get on with it.

      If a man bullies his daughter into agreeing to stand before a Sharia court regarding her unmarried sex with her boyfriend, and the court sentences her to stoning, trust me, that's illegal in several different ways and she'll be completely protected by the UK authorities (if she can make it to them).

      Anybody in the UK is protected by UK law, irrespective of religion. That some bigoted ignorant fucks decide to ignore it in favour of their own archaic abusive sexist stupid law doesn't make what they're doing legal.

    77. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eh, who says he lied? Did either of the Assange groupies care to ask if they were his "only" partner?

      Sounds like Star fuckers got pissed they weren't exclusive and decided to use a documented tactic they were familiar with.

    78. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    79. Re:So what by perdelucena · · Score: 1

      Maybe a reality show hosted by ABBA

    80. Re:So what by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Whatever some prosecutors do has no bearing on whether you or these women are real victims and should be taken seriously.

      Prosecutors are acting on these women's behalf - they aren't as willy-nilly as you so describe.

      Prosecutors are acting on the state's behalf. The women are, at best, complaining witnesses.

    81. Re:So what by dreampod · · Score: 1

      Credibility isn't a commodity that one can compare in simple numerical values. By your logic a woman accuses two men of raping her but they both deny it, thus she is a liar and they committed no crime.

      In this particular case the credibility of the two women is particularly suspect because neither of them came forward with any allegations of wrongdoing at the time and continued to socialise with him. It was only after the two women(who are reportedly friends prior to this incident) got together and discovered that he had been sleeping with both of them and agreed to go to the police together. While he may have raped them or comitted a sexual crime the fact they didn't feel what had occured merited police attention individually makes it seem like it could be a case of collaboration to revise history because they are angry at him.

    82. Re:So what by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      Indeed, they continued their relationship until the sun came out, which happens in Sweden a couple of times a year. When they saw that he did not sparkle in the sunshine, they realized that he was not a vampire as they had assumed. Only then did they withdraw consent.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    83. Re:So what by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

      My girlfriend takes advantage of my morning wood, while I'm sleeping... I wake up to marvelous morning sex, not rape.

      Would it have been "rape" if he was going down on her in her sleep instead?

      By your logic, I should always ask first before walking up behind my girlfriend in the kitchen, groping her and making out in the breakfast nook. Sexual spontaneity is a trait that many women and men enjoy.

      I assume that since we're in a sexual relationship that affection and sex is welcome. If at any point she says "stop" or terminates the relationship my sexual advances will cease.

      I just can't accept the notion that when your significant other is asleep, you are no longer a couple...

    84. Re:So what by Magada · · Score: 1

      I posted on this thread, but you sir would have gotten my +1 Insightful otherwise, no questions asked.

      --
      Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
    85. Re:So what by BitZtream · · Score: 0

      I wonder if one could count 'I consent only if you aren't whoring around with someone else' as valid.

      Seems a reasonable assumption most people make in relationships, that the person isn't screwing someone else (well except for 'open' relationships in which cases thats kind of the point).

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    86. Re:So what by AfroTrance · · Score: 1

      It seems like you are suggesting

      He is not suggesting that at all. Seriously.... you are reading what you want to read, not what is actually written.

    87. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My God, that's insane.

    88. Re:So what by Beetle+B. · · Score: 1

      This is actually how rape laws work in Saudi Arabia - men are incapable of rape and women are responsible for being raped.

      Please cite the part of Saudi Law that says this.

      --
      Beetle B.
    89. Re:So what by Beetle+B. · · Score: 1

      While I haven't seen any reference to specifically "forgiving" a brother after a rape, there are certainly ample references to situations where a woman's family is expected to kill her because of a rape.

      Ever consider that Pakistanis don't always (or even often) follow Shariah law?

      I suppose if you put "Islamic Law" into the constitution, everything that follows is Shariah Law? That's great: Now I understand that democracy is against allowing women and people of the wrong skin color from voting.

      Rape is assumed in most cases to be the woman's fault which leads to women being kept as virtual prisoners in their homes and being covered head to toe when they are allowed outside.

      Again, how is this Shariah Law?

      No, Sharia law isn't the rule in all Islamic countries as you don't see women being stoned to death in Egypt or Turkey.

      And nor are women who get raped treated the way you described in all Islamic countries. I guess that must have been a clause in Shariah law that said those rules need only apply in certain geographic regions...

      But increasingly in non-Islamic countries Sharia law is being given precedence over local laws for violations between Muslims.

      And in not a single one of those countries is Sharia Law being given precedence over local laws for criminal matters.

      Thanks for the spin.

      --
      Beetle B.
    90. Re:So what by sgtrock · · Score: 2

      yes, it is wrong to rush to judgment

      as equally as wrong as your attitude, which is obviously extremely eager to absolve him of guilt

      Look, I'm NOT saying he's guilty or innocent. All I know, like you, is what I've read in the papers about the case, including this statement from his attorney from a month ago:

      ...Both women have declared that they had consensual sexual relations with our client and that they continued to instigate friendly contact well after the alleged incidents. Only after the women became aware of each other's relationships with Mr. Assange did they make their allegations against him.

      The warrant for his arrest was rightly withdrawn within 24 hours by Chief prosecutor Eva Finne, who found that there was no "reason to suspect that he has committed rape."

      ...Eva Finne's decision to drop the "rape" investigation was reversed after the intervention of a political figure, Claes Borgstrom, who is now acting for the women. The case was given to a specific prosecutor, Marianne Ny.

      ...Despite his right to silence, my client has repeatedly offered to be interviewed, first in Sweden, and then in the UK (including at the Swedish Embassy), either in person or by telephone, videoconferencing or email and he has also offered to make a sworn statement on affidavit. All of these offers have been flatly refused by a prosecutor who is abusing her powers by insisting that he return to Sweden at his own expense to be subjected to another media circus that she will orchestrate. ...Before leaving Sweden Mr. Assange asked to be interviewed by the prosecution on several occasions in relation to the allegations, staying over a month in Stockholm, at considerable expense and despite many engagements elsewhere, in order to clear his name. Eventually the prosecution told his Swedish lawyer Bjorn Hurtig that he was free to leave the country, without interview, which he did.

      (emphasis added)

      The fact that he was held WITHOUT BAIL for a month after all that? Despicable. His rights under Swedish and British law? Nonexistent, apparently, precisely BECAUSE he chose to push for transparency in government. Don't you find that just the least bit horrific? I certainly do.

    91. Re:So what by MarcQuadra · · Score: 1

      Really? I must have missed the agenda item on the City Council docket for "allow Muslim laws to supersede the rest of this stuff".

      Sure, some of the more strict Muslims in the local community near me might pull their daughter from public school and disallow her from wearing what she wants, but so do the Hassidic Jews a few blocks down, and the fundamentalist Christians a few blocks in the other direction. I don't see the difference. The only time it becomes a problem is when the law is broken. This is America, you can raise your kids however you want to, as long as you keep them fed, clothed, watered, schooled, and unharmed.

      --
      "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
    92. Re:So what by MoriT · · Score: 1

      It would never have been an issue if he hadn't publicized the proceedings, spreading conspiracy theories and his accusers names far and wide. He was the one who turned it into a circus; it's hypocritical for him to complain about it now.

    93. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prior consent qualifies as consent. Your girlfriend knows you like waking up to having sex, and thus that you have already consented. Assange had absolutely no reason to think that a woman he met the week before had consented to such a thing, and thus it is rape.

      You and your partner have negotiated one kind of relationship, even if those negotiations were never explicit. Assuming everyone else has negotiated the same relationship, however, is wrong. Most people still have boundaries; does she have prior consent to strap on a dildo and begin having anal sex with you while you are still asleep? What about bondage, or sadism? Or adding a stuffed animal into the equation? I know people for whom each of those would fall under their understood boundaries of consent, but I bet you would still be very surprised to wake up to needles being stuck through your equipment.

      I'm just saying, each couple needs to respect the boundaries of their partners. If they don't, they are absolutely responsible for any violations that occur.

    94. Re:So what by mu22le · · Score: 1

      thanks :)

    95. Re:So what by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      in Sweden if the woman withdraws consent during the act it is still considered rape, with prision terms.

      The point of contention is not the swedish law, but whether the consent was actually withdrawn and the credibility of the womens' statement. The women seem to have continued their relationship with Assange, despite the rape and condom-break incident, which makes their claims sound a bit dubious.

      And? Their credibility should be judged by a jury, at trial.

      A trial? There hasn't been any charges yet!
      9 days in solitary, but no charges.

      Credibility? I don't see any.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    96. Re:So what by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      There's even some evidence that these women didn't really press charges even after they found out about each other until _after_ someone in the prosecutor's office started pushing them.

      What were they doing in the prosecutor's office in the first place?

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    97. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "He also did something wrong."

      [citation needed]

      (There is a difference between "people X claim he did something wrong" and "He did something wrong", at least until we can verify the truth in people X's claims.)

    98. Re:So what by maroberts · · Score: 1

      UK law is quite flexible on civil matters, but does not allow intrusion of religion and customs into criminal law.

      You can have any civil case in the UK arbitrated and decided by any court you mutually agree on; you are only forced to use a "normal" court if you cannot agree on venue. The Jewish court for this is called the Beth Din, and it has powers to settle divorce and other civil matters in accordance with religious law. If both parties agree on a court upholding Sharia law, then the decisions of such a court will be binding on both parties.

      Further, even in normal courts, where the parties involved are Jewish or Muslim, a judge will often go some way into taking advice for a means of giving his decision in a manner compatible with the culture of the parties involved. Its often the same decision, but how a decision is phrased often guarentees that it will be respected and upheld.

      --

      Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
      Karma: Chameleon

    99. Re:So what by blair1q · · Score: 1

      He did run, and he did hide. After getting permission to leave the country, he ran and hid from the people who gave him that permission. They had dropped nothing, they simply weren't at a stage in the investigation where they thought they needed to hold him. When they decided they did need to speak to him, they couldn't find him. His wherabouts were not well known. They had to get the English police to hunt him down. It was not terribly difficult, but it wasn't as though he was checking in with Sweden, which you'd think would be a condition of being allowed to leave during an investigation. And then he fought extradition. You'd think another condition of his leaving Sweden during an investigation would be that he not fight extradition. I think it probably was.

      My credibility is fine. Your credulity is in a heap on the floor.

    100. Re:So what by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Ah. He didn't pull the trigger, he just told the Kenyan government to do it because they were already holding a gun to the heads of 1300 people. So that makes lying about his involvement in it later, after he admitted wikileaks got those people killed, okay.

    101. Re:So what by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      And what gives one person, Assange, greater credibility than two other people?

      A consistent story and willingness to co-operate with authorities ?

    102. Re:So what by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      yes, assange did something good in the world. he also did something wrong.

      Did he though ? If there's one thing markedly lacking from this case so far, it's evidence. Further, Assange's behaviour strongly suggests he has no fear of being found guilty of rape (by any definition).

    103. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the dumbest interpretation of those events I've ever seen. You're an idiot and don't deserve a rational response.

    104. Re:So what by BeanThere · · Score: 1

      Assange had absolutely no reason to think that a woman he met the week before had consented to such a thing

      You mean apart from the fact that she willingly climbed naked into his bed? (She must've done so if he started having sex with her as she slept.)

    105. Re:So what by mjwx · · Score: 2

      Really? I must have missed the agenda item on the City Council docket for "allow Muslim laws to supersede the rest of this stuff".

      No, you didn't miss it.

      This is just more BS propaganda from the BNP/One Nation parties. "Teh evil immigrants are destroying the $NATIONS national identity and blergh", just an excuse for racism and bigotry to make up for their own fears and failures. GP should not have been modded up. Muslims are a convenient target because there's lots of negative propaganda around them already. When you consider the overwhelming majority of Muslims live in non-sharia countries (Indonesia, Malaysia, Indo is right up there for religious diversity too) and that most Muslims have taken great lengths to integrate themselves into western society (particularly in OZ) it's not as bad as the ultra-nationalists make out.

      But this doesn't stop them from being used as a bogeyman to scare people who dont know any better.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    106. Re:So what by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Your response is consistent with your attitude.

    107. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So called "honour killings" are cultural practices forbidden by Islam.

      >requirement that a woman have four witnesses to a rape or else she is charged with adultery.

      In terms of Sharia, not cultural and un-Islamic practices of certain countries, it would be the other way around. Four witness are needed for adultery.

      http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/72338/rape

    108. Re:So what by TheLink · · Score: 1

      I just posted translations of the relevant Quran verses the AC mentioned.

      So how does that prove I'm ignorant?

      Perhaps you need to improve your reading skills before you accuse people of ignorance.

      --
    109. Re:So what by Builder · · Score: 1

      Well, your lies just lost you all credibility with me. He never ran and hid in another country. His request for Swedish residence failed. That meant he had no reason to stay there. He ASKED the prosecutor if they needed anything more of him and was told "No, you can leave". So he did. Evil fucker huh ?

    110. Re:So what by Builder · · Score: 1

      The EU has included England for a helluva long time!

    111. Re:So what by cyclomedia · · Score: 1

      Alternately, being a victim of a very personal crime they were doubting, questions and unsure about the circumstances. Essentially in a kind of denial. Shock and stress can do that to you.

      Imagine something a bit less severe, first imagine you're not super confident or teeming with testosterone, you were in a car accident, it was clearly the other persons fault but they talked their way out of the situation. You carried on with your life and picked up the pieces, sorted the car, and started to believe that maybe it was just an accident, where no one was at fault. Then you meet someone who had the same experience, with the exact same other driver...

      Back to real life: When they got together and discovered the same thing had happened to someone else they realized their doubts were unfounded and gained the confidence to go to the authorities.

      --
      If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
    112. Re:So what by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>The university overreacted; the police didn't.

      Yeah they did. The Swedish police know very well this is a "she said; he said" case that they have no possibility of winning, and therefore they should drop it. In fact, they did already drop it..... but then suddenly revived it at the behest of the US White House.

      This is just police harassment over a case that they already know they will lose. Similar to that Connecticut DA who arrested a man because he was wearing a "Close Guantanamo" shirt. The judge threw it out but the stupid DA pressed charges anyway, so it got thrown out again. People in power who pursue cases they know they can't win are abusing their power & the citizens.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    113. Re:So what by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      in Sweden if the woman withdraws consent during the act it is still considered rape, with prision terms.

      The point of contention is not the swedish law, but whether the consent was actually withdrawn and the credibility of the womens' statement. The women seem to have continued their relationship with Assange, despite the rape and condom-break incident, which makes their claims sound a bit dubious.

      And? Their credibility should be judged by a jury, at trial.

      A trial? There hasn't been any charges yet! 9 days in solitary, but no charges.

      Credibility? I don't see any.

      So, because Assange has been held by British police, therefore two Swedish women have no credibility? I thought Slashdot was supposed to be home to logical thinkers.

    114. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in Sweden if the woman withdraws consent during the act it is still considered rape, with prision terms.

      The point of contention is not the swedish law, but whether the consent was actually withdrawn and the credibility of the womens' statement. The women seem to have continued their relationship with Assange, despite the rape and condom-break incident, which makes their claims sound a bit dubious.

      And? Their credibility should be judged by a jury, at trial.

      No, they have to file charges before they take him to trial. He is currently wanted for questioning.
      It's up to the prosecutor to determine if there is enough evidence to make a criminal case out of it, and as part of that he has to consider the credibility of the witnesses.

      The former prosecutor took a look and said "Well, we have two jilted lovers with massive credibility problems, and there's really no way to actually prove he did or didn't do anything they claim he did. Thus, it's a waste of our time and resources to bring charges when we don't know for sure if a crime was even committed."
      And now they have a new Prosecutor who has a vested political interest in making this a high-profile case.

      So I do the math, and it doesn't add up. Maybe they teach it differently where you live, I dunno.

    115. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>>The university overreacted; the police didn't.

      Yeah they did. The Swedish police know very well this is a "she said; he said" case that they have no possibility of winning

      I am hardly familiar with Swedish law, and so cannot tell if you are incorrect. But something tells me that you are also unfamiliar with Swedish law, and yet you seem so confident that you are correct.

      How can you be so sure of things that you know nothing about?

      (Captcha: perfect)

    116. Re:So what by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      In terms of Sharia, not cultural and un-Islamic practices of certain countries, it would be the other way around. Four witness are needed for adultery.

      If she’s pregnant, it was obviously either rape or adultery... and how hard do you think it would be for the guy to get 4 male friends to testify that he’d never do such a thing as raping someone and/or give him an alibi against anything the woman claims?

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    117. Re:So what by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      in Sweden if the woman withdraws consent during the act it is still considered rape, with prision terms.

      The point of contention is not the swedish law, but whether the consent was actually withdrawn and the credibility of the womens' statement. The women seem to have continued their relationship with Assange, despite the rape and condom-break incident, which makes their claims sound a bit dubious.

      And? Their credibility should be judged by a jury, at trial.

      A trial? There hasn't been any charges yet!
      9 days in solitary, but no charges.

      Credibility? I don't see any.

      So, because Assange has been held by British police, therefore two Swedish women have no credibility?

      You can't withdraw your consent more than a week after the sex happened (she kept letting him live with her for a week and said she never was afraid of him), that's why the complaint was dismissed in less than 24h, because it wasn't credible.

      It was such a nice pretext though, they couldn't let it go to waste...

      It's not about the claims, the claims are just a red herring for police action and legal delays. There is no credibility in the claims because the response is completely disproportional to the claims. No one ever got pursued like this over such claims before. Those governments are not doing this because they believe the claims, they're using the claims as an excuse.

      And Swedish authorities don't even believe the claims: They haven't even laid any formal charges. They just want to ask him questions. They didn't want to ask him questions when he was in the country, they told him it was ok to leave the country, and then they wanted him jailed in the U.K. right when the cables started going public?

      No credibility.

      I thought Slashdot was supposed to be home to logical thinkers.

      I've known for a long time that slashdot is full of illogical dullards like you.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    118. Re:So what by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      Centipedes? In my vagina?

      Well, dammit!

      That's why the condom broke!!

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    119. Re:So what by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      The question comes natural... can it be all without foreing intervenction?

      That question came naturally?
      I'd hate to see a question you have that didn't come naturally.

      The question that comes naturally to me is: What the hell are you talking about?

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    120. Re:So what by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      You can't withdraw your consent more than a week after the sex happened (she kept letting him live with her for a week and said she never was afraid of him)

      In the first case, she withdrew consent during. In the second case, the other woman was asleep and therefore could not consent.

      The actions afterwards are irrelevant. If a domestic abuse victim stays with his or her attacker, does their black eye suddenly disappear?

      The rest of your post is based on a misunderstanding of the law and how the justice system works, with questioning of the accused almost always occurring prior to the bringing of formal charges, and is thus moot.

    121. Re:So what by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      No... in both cases, they claimed those things more than a week later with no proof whatsoever to back up the claims.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    122. Re:So what by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      In the first case, she withdrew consent during. In the second case, the other woman was asleep and therefore could not consent.

      Claims? Remember? You're talking about this as if It Happened With Certainty.

      Isn't that so very interesting. So, very.

      The actions afterwards are irrelevant.

      They are certainly not!

      If a domestic abuse victim stays with his or her attacker, does their black eye suddenly disappear?

      Now you're implying this was similar to violent domestic abuse, fanfuckingtastic, you biased fuck.

      The rest of your post is based on a misunderstanding of the law and how the justice system works, with questioning of the accused almost always occurring prior to the bringing of formal charges, and is thus moot.

      9 days of solitary confinement (torture) always occurring, huh?

      Eat shit and die.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    123. Re:So what by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      No... in both cases, they claimed those things more than a week later with no proof whatsoever to back up the claims.

      No... in both cases, they reported those things to police four days later with evidence consisting of complaining witness testimony to back up the claims.

      Oh, you think that the testimony of the complaining witness doesn't count as evidence? Sounds good to me. Thanks for your wallet and cash. Very nice of you to give it as a gift, particularly at Christmas time.

    124. Re:So what by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Claims? Remember? You're talking about this as if It Happened With Certainty.

      Isn't that so very interesting. So, very.

      Pot, meet Kettle:

      You can't withdraw your consent more than a week after the sex happened

      Kettle has an appropriate response to you, too:

      fanfuckingtastic, you biased fuck. Eat shit and die.

    125. Re:So what by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      Oh, you think that the testimony of the complaining witness doesn't count as evidence? Sounds good to me. Thanks for your wallet and cash. Very nice of you to give it as a gift, particularly at Christmas time.

      False analogy. She already gave him her wallet, she just claims she demanded he give it back.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    126. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pot, meet Kettle

      If you think that someone can after-the-fact decide that, actually, they didn't want to fuck around with that guy after all, and that makes him a rapist, I hope you or someone you love is actually raped someday (none of this fake rape bullshit) so you can have a better appreciation of what the word "rape" actually means.

      That is all.

    127. Re:So what by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Oh, you think that the testimony of the complaining witness doesn't count as evidence? Sounds good to me. Thanks for your wallet and cash. Very nice of you to give it as a gift, particularly at Christmas time.

      False analogy. She already gave him her wallet, she just claims she demanded he give it back.

      Well, in a way, that's what it comes down to... It is a false analogy: unlike giving someone a wallet, sex is not a discrete action, but takes place over a period of time (about 5 seconds for Slashdotters).

      Some people believe that if a woman says yes once - if the guy sticks it in - she then can't withdraw consent until he's done pumping away. Some people even go as far to say that if a woman has consented once - say, has sex the previous night with a condom on - then she has consented to any and all actsin the future, including being woken up to sex without a condom.

      The law, however, says that women can certainly withdraw consent during the act. And that a sleeping woman cannot consent.

      But this is all irrelevant to my point above, and your earlier post: you said that there's "no proof whatsoever." I pointed out that witness testimony is proof, or evidence rather, and it's up to a jury to determine whether it's credible or not. Many, many convictions fall down to witness testimony rather than physical evidence, particularly where consent is an issue: legitimate vs. fraudulent contracts, theft vs. gift, consensual sex vs. rape. In all of these, physical evidence doesn't determine anything - the signature on the contract is the right signature, the money or object changed hands, the woman has a stained dress with DNA on it. Determining whether there was consent falls to witness/victim testimony, the testimony of the defendant, and the jury's opinion of their credibility.

      Mind you, we only complain about the inadequacies of he-said/she-said evidence in rape cases... Not in fraud. Curious, huh?

    128. Re:So what by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      witness testimony is proof, or evidence rather

      It’s neither of those things. It is testimony. Whether or not it is considered to be credible depends both on its coherency, its circumstances, and the credibility of the person giving it.

      Many, many convictions fall down to witness testimony rather than physical evidence, particularly where consent is an issue ... Determining whether there was consent falls to witness/victim testimony, the testimony of the defendant, and the jury's opinion of their credibility.

      Assange’s presence wasn’t needed for that determination until some political weight got thrown around and suddenly he’s an international fugitive. Strange...

      (And Sweden apparently doesn’t use a jury system.)

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    129. Re:So what by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      witness testimony is proof, or evidence rather

      It’s neither of those things. It is testimony. Whether or not it is considered to be credible depends both on its coherency, its circumstances, and the credibility of the person giving it.

      We may be using different definitions. I'm using the legal definition, where testimony is part of "evidence". I have no disagreement with the rest of your statement here, though.

      Many, many convictions fall down to witness testimony rather than physical evidence, particularly where consent is an issue ... Determining whether there was consent falls to witness/victim testimony, the testimony of the defendant, and the jury's opinion of their credibility.

      Assange’s presence wasn’t needed for that determination until some political weight got thrown around and suddenly he’s an international fugitive. Strange...

      Not so... They were asking him to come in for questioning, and he refused. So, accordingly, they filed a red notice with INTERPOL. Then he showed up at the police station in London. He still has refused to go to Sweden for questioning, however, hence the current extradition fight.

      I don't know... Criminal law is not my particular field, but I don't believe that a suspect typically gets to choose whether to be questioned in person or via a telephone link with his lawyer silently holding up cue cards in the background.

      (And Sweden apparently doesn’t use a jury system.)

      Yeah, silly civil law jurisdictions. Nonetheless, they do have a "finder of fact", specifically lay judges, I believe, which perform the same function.

    130. Re:So what by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      Not so... They were asking him to come in for questioning, and he refused.

      As I understand it, what happened was more like this:

      they informed him of the investigation, so he couldn’t leave;
      they investigated the charges, found no credibility, and dropped them;
      at which point he asked if he could please leave the country now?;
      they told him yeah, go ahead... and he did;

      Then the international shitstorm occurred over Assange’s involvement with the Wikileaks release of US documents and now suddenly they want him to come back, on his own dime, and answer some questions – and without yet being formally charged.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    131. Re:So what by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Not so... They were asking him to come in for questioning, and he refused.

      As I understand it, what happened was more like this:

      they informed him of the investigation, so he couldn’t leave; they investigated the charges, found no credibility, and dropped them; at which point he asked if he could please leave the country now?; they told him yeah, go ahead... and he did;

      Then the international shitstorm occurred over Assange’s involvement with the Wikileaks release of US documents

      I'm not so sure about that timing. There was a fight between two Swedish prosecutors, one who wanted to bring charges and one who didn't, but I believe that fight was going on almost immediately, rather than after the international shiatstorm.

      and now suddenly they want him to come back, on his own dime, and answer some questions – and without yet being formally charged.

      Well, since they're asking for extradition, I don't think that's on his dime, technically...

    132. Re:So what by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      Well, since they're asking for extradition, I don't think that's on his dime, technically...

      Maybe not at this point, but I understood that it initially was.

      After he turned himself in to the UK officials, then Sweden had the opportunity to press the UK for his extradition (they couldn’t very easily extradite him if they didn’t have him), and he’s pretty much at the mercy of whatever the UK officials decide at this point.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    133. Re:So what by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      If you think that someone can after-the-fact decide that, actually, they didn't want to fuck around with that guy after all, and that makes him a rapist, I hope you or someone you love is actually raped someday

      For the record, I agree with the logic behind Anon's hate, but I, for one, just want the troll to die; I don't wish rape on the troll's acquaintances.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

  10. One of the women has links to anti-Castro groups by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    On of the accusers had been kicked out of Cuba for "anti-Castro" activity and has ties to US funded political groups. It's looking a lot like CIA. Counter Punch reported on it, check it out.

  11. Old news by airfoobar · · Score: 4, Informative

    This happened several days ago. The Guardian has the story here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden I think The Times also had a story. No point looking for the original document -- it was in Swedish.

    1. Re:Old news by clyde_cadiddlehopper · · Score: 1

      No point looking for the original document -- it was in Swedish.

      Uff da!

      --
      Obi-Wan: "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were sudden
    2. Re:Old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right on, man! Nobody speaks or reads Swedish because it's a dead language! Also it's not like there are any free translation services available on thet internet!

    3. Re:Old news by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Interesting that so far all of the coverage that I've seen has focussed on 'Miss W' when the far more serious stuff relates to 'Miss A,' who also claims that he was the 'world's worst screw,' which can't be good for someone with an ego the size of Assange's.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:Old news by Tumbleweed · · Score: 2

      No point looking for the original document -- it was in Swedish.

      Ah, found it. No wonder - I was looking for the document title, "Assange Rapes Women" when I should've been looking for "Assange BORKS Women BORK BORK BORK". Thanks for the tip.

    5. Re:Old news by airfoobar · · Score: 1
    6. Re:Old news by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      who also claims that he was the 'world's worst screw,'

      Why is it ironic that we are talking about what is supposedly “rape” in terms of whether or not it was the “world’s worst screw”?

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    7. Re:Old news by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      After reading the article published by the guardian, I have to say that it supports Assange. There is nothing in there that indicates rape. (even by the definition that is being claimed exists for Sweden.)

      It does pain a bizarre picture of Swedish women though. Claims like since he ripped her shirt off, she had to have sex with him. After all, it had gone too far. That would be a bizarre claim coming from a drunk fluzy that you picked up at a bar, but given that this woman was competent enough to host an international convention, it just sounds...bizarre. Is it common among Swedish women to feel like they have already gone so far that they cannot say no if a guy rips their shirt off?

      Then there is the claim by the other woman that they were just 'joking' when they were discussing getting paid for the story of getting 'raped'. I know that Sweden has some really long nights, but is their comedy really so dark, that you would crack jokes to women about their recent raping?

      Everything about these claims seems seems fishy, including the statements coming from the women themselves. While I have seen/read/heard many reports of rape in the media, I have to say that this is the first one that ever reported on the 'victim' evaluating the quality of the raping.

    8. Re:Old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I'm sure there are quite a few swedes online who would like to read it and would be happy to translate/summarize it...

    9. Re:Old news by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1

      No point looking for the original document -- it was in Swedish.

      Because no one on /. can read Swedish.

    10. Re:Old news by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Mate, when a woman has a new man he's the 'World's Best Screw' (or at least that what she tells her friends). Later on, as time has passed, his standing in her mind changes. The man has probably not changed that much (although passion diminishes, so possibly less effort is involved) but mostly the woman's perception of him. It is a change mostly in her own mind and feelings for someone. Here we have a classic case of it. Two women who were hot for Julian suddenly changed their minds when they found out he is a 'playa'. Not only did they change their minds about him but they also selectively re-wrote history ("oh, he's a bad lay" despite them coming back for more over weeks) as they are wont to do. Perhaps they were the lousy lays but never think of turning the mirror on themselves? The funny thing is that a Big Deflection is going on and governments and media are trying to make it about Julian's sex life and hairstyle rather than the content of the leaked cables ... and suckers fall right into it.

    11. Re:Old news by darkshadow88 · · Score: 1

      I can speak Swedish, you insensitive clod (and am thus interested in seeing the document)! I haven't managed to find it yet, though.

    12. Re:Old news by alexo · · Score: 1

      Uff da!

      Why use a foreign expression when a native one is available?

    13. Re:Old news by airfoobar · · Score: 1

      To all five Swedish speakers on Slashdot, I haven't seen the document.

    14. Re:Old news by jgtg32a · · Score: 1

      But can you read it?

    15. Re:Old news by darkshadow88 · · Score: 1

      No, just speak and listen. I guess I'll have to put it through a text-to-speech system, should I be able to find it.

    16. Re:Old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      when the far more serious stuff relates to 'Miss A,' who also claims that he was the 'world's worst screw,'

      Somebody from Sweden please throw in some light: being "world's worse screw" is it an offence or a crime in Sweden?

  12. Slashed by Wowsers · · Score: 1

    Lucky there's no link on an official site, we could have /. the server.

    --
    Take Nobody's Word For It.
  13. Where is this document? by HelloKitty2 · · Score: 1

    Where is this leaked document? I'd like to read it since the media often likes to give the wrong picture.

    1. Re:Where is this document? by migla · · Score: 1

      I don't know about the document, and I agree, media does really often get things wrong, accidentlly or on purpose. Almost on topic would be this recent documentary about wikileaks by swedish public television, as an example of media as good as it gets, I think. http://svtplay.se/v/2264028 (It's in english and should be accessible from outside sweden.

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    2. Re:Where is this document? by HelloKitty2 · · Score: 1

      It appears to be one of those things that only gets reported to the media. I like the guardian article posted above by someone, it seems to give a complete picture of the events.

  14. Four Days?! by PPH · · Score: 3, Funny

    No wonder the condom broke!

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  15. Where's the report? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All I'm seeing is spin everywhere. It reeks of damage mitigation.

  16. More "Leaked Documents" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so will this set of leaked docs end up on wikileaks too!? ;)

  17. Clickwhoring by sirdude · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why is the summary not linking to the original article and instead pointing to a blog-post which is supposedly regurgitating a Press Trust of India release based on the NYTimes article? This story is also about 3 days old :S

    1. Re:Clickwhoring by wjousts · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'd assume because Slashdot editors don't like linking to the NYT because it has a semi-paywall thing. If they linked directly to NYT, you'd had pages of people complaining that they are being asked to subscribe to see the article. I had a similar experience when I submitted something from the NYT, they didn't post it for several days and then linked to a different newspaper that referenced the NYT story.

      IIRC: NYT lets you see one article a day without subscribing or something like that. It's trivial to defeat by clearing your cookies, not accepting cookies in the first place, or using private browsing.

    2. Re:Clickwhoring by mounthood · · Score: 1

      Why is the summary not linking to the original article ...

      Because original sources of leaks are terrorism, while rehashed summaries are not.

      --
      tomorrow who's gonna fuss
    3. Re:Clickwhoring by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      This story is also about 3 days old :S

      Because the blog is dated today, so Taco thinks its a "new" story. It took me five minutes to work out this was the same story I read in yesterday's newspaper, with nothing added except some links to a useless blog.

    4. Re:Clickwhoring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No paywall. There is a registration wall. Maybe something has changed recently, but on last check I was able to read all stories once logged in.

      They did try to put up a paywall for Opinion pieces a few years ago, but that crashed and burned badly.

    5. Re:Clickwhoring by wjousts · · Score: 1

      Ok, so maybe it's a registration wall. It's still a pain in the ass, and I believe that's why Slashdot editors don't like linking to it. YMMV.

    6. Re:Clickwhoring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't visit that site since ages, and yet the GP's link wants me to log in.

      But if I remove the https://myaccount.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI= from the beginning of the URL, it shows me the article. LOL

    7. Re:Clickwhoring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they linked directly to NYT, you'd had pages of people complaining that they are being asked to register to see the article.

      Better now?

  18. charges seem implausible by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

    Although there is no link to the original Swedish document, and I can't read Swedish anyway, the article indicates that Assange is being accused of 2 counts of rape. Both instances seem ridiculous for different reasons. I have had condoms tear and not realize it until I pulled out. So that alone is not a consent issue. In the other instance, how the hell is it possible to have sex with someone while they are asleep, with or without a condom. Would they not wake up before you even had the chance to stick it in? The key issue in both cases is whether or not Assange was in fact told to stop. Either he was or he wasn't. If he was told to stop, and continued anyway then it was rape by US definitions. If he was not told to stop and the women just got pissed off later for various reasons it was not rape by most normal definitions of the term. If Assange was not told to stop then I think CIA involvement becomes quite plausible. The accusers should be thoroughly investigated for secret money transfers etc. If they are Swedish citizens working for the CIA could they be liable for espionage charges under Swedish law? Wouldn't that make them traitors to the Swedish government?

    --
    Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    1. Re:charges seem implausible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I heartily approve the idea of assuming that rape victims are just conniving, jealous bitches who should have a spotlight shone on their personal lives and vigorously investigated.

      It's also obviously safe to assume that no one knew the condom broke and that this was just an unexpected accident that was manufactured into a mass of lies by the above-mentioned conniving, jealous bitches. Since you have had a condom break before and didn't know about it, this must have been what happened. Any suggestion to the contrary seems "ridiculous".

      The prosecutor should probably also investigate the possibility that the women were just dirty sluts who totally had it coming because they led him on and were dressed in provocative clothing.

      Also, I'm relieved to know that most rape cases boil down to a simple question of "either he was told to stop or he wasn't". I feel reassured that there aren't about 10 million potential complexities and ambiguities involving miscommunication, misinterpreted social cues, differing expectations of men and women out on a date or fooling around at a party, differing expectations as to what constitutes normal sex play, failure to realize that the alleged victim feels threatened but is too scared to show it, etc, etc.

      Finally, it's good to know that it's not possible to have sex with a sleeping woman, and especially fortunate that sexual encounters, forcible or otherwise, never involve alcohol or drugs which might produce such an effect. And, there's no chance at all that he just has a really small dick and finishes quickly.

      You really sound like you know what the fuck you're talking about! I'm glad people like you are all over this fucking case and won't shut up about anything to do with St. Assange, whose stature viz. Wikileaks renders him incapable of doing anything wrong.

    2. Re:charges seem implausible by HertzaHaeon · · Score: 2

      Sex with a sleeping person is very possible. If you can't imagine how, you're not imaginative enough. Or creepy enough, I guess. Some people are heavy sleepers. Other gets very drunk. Etc, etc.

      The debate about rape and abuse here has focused more and more on whether you actually say yes to sex, not so much if you say no. It makes sense in many ways. It's not always possible to say no. Maybe you're too afraid to say no, or maybe you're sleeping and can't say no.

      As for what Assange did, I'll leave that to the court to decide.

    3. Re:charges seem implausible by stdarg · · Score: 1

      As for what Assange did, I'll leave that to the court to decide.

      Why would you do that, when it's clear that the Assange case is politically motivated?

      When is the last time an international manhunt was started for a rape suspect?

      Are all the other rapes in Sweden (which has the highest number of rapes per capita in Western Europe thanks largely to its immigrant Muslim population) prosecuted with such vigor and determination?

    4. Re:charges seem implausible by MarcQuadra · · Score: 1

      I think that if you're a grown person, you should recognize when you're violated pretty quickly, and hightail it to a medical center to offer up the proof you'll need in court. Anything less isn't doing your Due Diligence, even as a victim.

      I have a big issue with (non-children) looking back into time and deciding that what happened to them was rape. If you make no effort to stop the activity, how can it be rape? If you don't immediately seek justice, how was it rape?

      --
      "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
  19. none of those mention rape .. by doperative · · Score: 1

    None of those mentions rape, so why is Assange being described as an alleged rapist?

    The accusation in the fourth point, involving Miss W, falls into the category of rape under Swedish law.

    An arrest warrant, issued on 20 August, was withdrawn the following day, when one of Sweden's chief prosecutors, Eva Finné, said she did not think there was "reason to suspect that he has committed rape". On 1 September, Marianne Ny, the Swedish director of prosecutions, overturned Finné's judgment. "Considering information available at present, my judgment is that the classification of the crime is rape," said Ny. link

  20. Assange himself is irrelevant, however. by EWAdams · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's actually rather clever of him to serve as a lightning rod for Wikileaks, while the actual work continues to go on. Right-wing congressmen can call for his assassination all they like; even if it were to happen it would not affect the publication of the leaks. In fact, it would almost certainly trigger the mass publication of the unredacted material. "The personal strengths and weaknesses of a leader are no true indicator of the merits of his cause."

    --
    I piss off bigots.
    1. Re:Assange himself is irrelevant, however. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So being a "lightning rod" is a carefully crafted strategy and not at all related to the fact that he has a huge ego and is a media whore?

    2. Re:Assange himself is irrelevant, however. by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      That works fine if you are dealing with the masses, but if you think that the government is going to ignore the whole group because of Assange's personal life and/or PR activities, you're dead wrong. They only care about the leaks, there is little personal about what they may or may not be doing to the man himself. If they want him smeared, its because there is a logical reason for doing it. Of course, the sense of satisfaction they would be getting would be a bonus, no doubt. No one would be dumb enough to assassinate him unless it actually stops leaks, and no one believes that making him a martyr would help with plugging leaks.

      Either way, you can be sure that they are working hard at disrupting the group itself, getting people to quit, trying to increase dissent between Assange and others inside as well as going after possible sources and such. The process is not going to be perfect, nor will it be particularly subtle in all cases, but governments can get things done in time.

      In fact, I think that Wikileaks has much more to lose from Assange acting as a lightning rod than they have to gain. If he is discredited in front of the public, then the project itself may get less public support in the form of both leaks, volunteers, and agitation. It does help if he maintains a saintly or at least an idealistic image (ie. the image that seems to have gotten him laid by at least one of the women), but if he ends up being trashy, people will not want to be associated with him. I think this actually makes the work that the government has to do much, much easier, because they just have to turn him into a rapist pedophile and Wikileaks gets tarred by association.

    3. Re:Assange himself is irrelevant, however. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Initially, the Govt seem to have thought Assange is important - like Che or Castro. But now that they find that imprisoning Assange does not do a thing, they want to take time and track them online and build a huge case with lots of possible punishments in lots of jurisdictions, and then, they will arrest people. But then, cryptography is pretty strong if used correctly.

  21. Re:One of the women has links to anti-Castro group by doperative · · Score: 5, Informative

    Anna Ardin (the official complainant) is often described by the media as a “leftist”. She has ties to the US-financed anti-Castro and anti-communist groups link

  22. Taste of his own medicine by techstar25 · · Score: 0

    So Assange is getting a taste of his own medicine. You know what they say "What goes around, cums around." ... or something like that.

    1. Re:Taste of his own medicine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So Assange is getting a taste of his own medicine.

      That would only be true if he wanted the report kept secret. Do you have any indication that that's the case?

  23. Haha by copponex · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah. If I dared to tell anyone that I didn't think Mohammed was the last messenger from God while I was in Saudi Arabia, and they jailed me for it, oh well. Gotta respect their laws while you're there.

    Of course that's absolute bullshit. Any law that denies a person a right to defend themselves from undue process of law is unjust, period, unless it's putting away someone you don't like. I've read through the document, and I do think Assange should submit himself to further evidentiary proceedings once he is assured of receiving the same treatment as someone who isn't on the shitlist of half of the world governments.

    Let's all remember why the authorities have decided that he doesn't deserve equal rights:

    "He's made it more difficult for us to conduct our business with our allies and our friends." -Joe Biden

    1. Re:Haha by wmac · · Score: 0

      He is spreading nonsense and you base your discussion on his nonsense. There is no such rule in Islam.

      Rather if you rape a lady or a child you are punished by death. Not the raped person. In some pathetic tribes such things might exist but not in that religion.

    2. Re:Haha by copponex · · Score: 1

      I was stating the fact that proselytizers face prosecution in Saudi Arabia all the time. And in fact, if a woman is raped, she can be punished:

      The couple was sitting in a car when a group of seven Sunni men kidnapped them and raped them both, lawyers in the case told Arab News. The former boyfriend was also sentenced to 90 lashes for being with her in private.

      A review of the sentence was ordered after condemnation from the international community and human rights groups.

      However the Saudi Justice Ministry today maintained that the ruling was legal and followed the "the book of God and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad".

      The Justice Ministry's account of the incident differed substantially from that given by the woman and her lawyer.

      It largely glossed over her rape, focusing instead on her plan to meet her lover in his car "in a dark place where they stayed for a while".

      "Then they where spotted by the other defendants as the woman was in an indecent condition as she had tossed away her clothes, then the assault occurred on her and the man," the statement said.

    3. Re:Haha by wmac · · Score: 1

      That has nothing to do with Islam. It is the pathetic rules and culture of that country which incidentally has brought to us Osama bi Ladan and still is the main friend of the US in the middle east.

      Other Muslim countries do not have any rule to punish a raped person.

    4. Re:Haha by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      No true Scotsman, hmm?

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    5. Re:Haha by Marcika · · Score: 1

      There is no such rule in Islam. Rather if you rape a lady or a child you are punished by death. Not the raped person. In some pathetic tribes such things might exist but not in that religion.

      Not necessarily death, it might be just a prison sentence and a public whipping. Pathetic tribes indeed.

    6. Re:Haha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. If I dared to tell anyone that I didn't think Mohammed was the last messenger from God while I was in Saudi Arabia, and they jailed me for it, oh well. Gotta respect their laws while you're there.

      Of course that's absolute bullshit. Any law that denies a person a right to defend themselves from undue process of law is unjust, period, unless it's putting away someone you don't like.

      So you think it's a good idea to go to Saudi Arabia and claim that Mohammed isn't the last messenger from God? I mean, sure, if you want to try and become a martyr, and hope it will help, go right ahead. Just don't confuse your ideology with reality. Reality is that each country's government is sovereign* over the land it controls. Reality is you'll probably get thrown in Saudi jail (or whatever the punishment is, there), and be very uncomfortable for a good period of time.

      * for the idiots out there about to claim "but what if another country gets involved via the UN or via war", the UN is a treaty organization, not a world government, and wars change "over the land it controls".

    7. Re:Haha by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Let us remember that 'doing business' between world governments and 'doing business' with your local car dealer are worlds apart as far as potential outcomes.

      At first glance, 'making it difficult to do business with our allies' doesn't sound like much, but when that business involves the lives of millions of people, well I'd prefer that they work as smoothly as possible together and not make any decisions based on the fact that some diplomate called someone a douche for their behavior at some party.

      I'm a little less concerned that I may get ripped off on a car at the car dealership because the dealer found out that I know his wife is a whore.

      Same thing, completely different scales of potential outcomes.

      I'd also like to think the people in these positions are better people than most and can overcome this sort of thing ... but lets just be realistic, they are just people like you and me and knowing that everyone in the room knows your wife is a whore will put you on the defensive know matter who you are.

      So yes, lets remember Joe Biden's quote, but lets remember the context that goes with that quote and not treat it like some trivial statement. There are things to be considered at this level that go beyond the extremely simplistic view of the world you're trying to impose.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    8. Re:Haha by copponex · · Score: 1

      Joe Biden means doing business, like selling 60 billion dollars worth of advanced military technology to the country that funds the vast majority of the world's active terrorist groups: Saudi Arabia. It means keeping it a secret that oil companies have infiltrated African governments so the oil companies can continue to rake in money while they avoid paying for environmental damage, or indeed even taxes in the United States. It means that the market is warped all over the world to benefit people who are already rich at the expense of the people they are driving into poverty.

      So, as I am so fond of saying, go fuck yourself. If your wife is a whore and she's spreading lupus and crabs, the only people the truth hurts are the people who deserve to be hurt.

  24. Isn't by Blue6 · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    This guys fifteen minutes about up

    --
    EGOTIST, n. A person of low taste, more interested in himself than in me.
  25. Is that you, Hillary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, $(SUBJECT) says it all...

  26. autism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is a theory that Assange is autistic, which would account for his tumultuous relationships. http://www.wrongplanet.net/postxf146011-0-15.html Check out what Mercurial wrote, who considers herself autistic.

    1. Re:autism by Thud457 · · Score: 1

      I have a hard time envisioning an autistic rising to such a high rank in SPECTRE.

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  27. A Farce by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What bothers me is the government isn't concerned how obviously fake these charges appear. I miss the days when the western democracies pretended its citizens had rights.

  28. Kia Ora by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is it with this Wiki thing anyway? I come from a country where Wiki was once a popular girls name. My mother had an Aunty Wiki (apparently she was married to uncle Bob.)

  29. How does a condom break (no stupid jokes please) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Seriously, condoms are tough things. You can stretch them well beyond anything they are designed to contain, blow them up to many times their normal volume. They are intended to prevent pregnancy (as well as infection) and are subject to stringent testing.

    How likely is it that a condom would 'break', and even if it did, how would either of the participants know about it if they were in the middle of rumpy pumpy. That is assuming it wasn't left hanging in threads flailing about all over the place.

    If Assange did 'break' the condom intentionally as has been suggested, how is it claimed he did it? Did he tear it in half, take the scissors to it? Bite it?

    This part of the accusation seems otherworldly.

  30. It's the CIA report by b4upoo · · Score: 1

    This report was on its way to the Swedes when it was leaked. It is more like a request from the US rather than a factual report.
            Counter intelligence is sometimes counter intuitive.

  31. Throwing stones. by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No, there is no difference, at least not how Assange publishes information on Wikileaks. Wikileaks is a real organization, just like many corporations. Are you saying that leaks relating to illicit activity of, say the head of a major bank should not be published? Even if that is what you are saying, Wikileaks begs to differ. In the recent cable leaks, was a lot of information relating to individuals health conditions, medical records, affairs, etc. Why should the head of Wikileaks be allowed a pass, when the people he reports on aren't?

    And before anybody comments, that in Assange's case, they are trumped up charges by the CIA or some government, please don't. The charges against him were filed before his current leaks which are pissing off many a government, particularly the US. Besides, do you really think if the CIA was clairvoyant, they wouldn't use this ability on something more important like Iraq or Afghanistan?

    Whether what he did with the two woman is right or wrong, is up for the Swedish court system to decide. Releasing information about the case, while embarrassing for him, is no different than what he does. Heck, for all we know, his organization is the leak, so he can claim he can't get a fair trial now that the info is out.

    Personally, I think that if the women's accounts are true, he should be held accountable. I'm pretty sure, as is the case with the second woman, that having sex while one is asleep, means it is not consensual. If the prime minister of some country had done it, Wikileaks would be all over it. There is an old saying about people in glass houses and stones.

    1. Re:Throwing stones. by whoop · · Score: 1

      Just black out the name of the accused, then it's easy to publish with a clear conscience. Information wants to be free!

    2. Re:Throwing stones. by Motard · · Score: 1

      Just black out the name of the accused, then it's easy to publish with a clear conscience. Information wants to be free!

      "Iraqi President ***REDACTED*** has contracted syphillus from a member of Saudi King ***REDACTED***'s harem...."

      No, wait that doesn't work. May it shoul all b anonymized....

      "******** accused ******** of ******** of supplying explosives to ********* which were meant for and attack on **********."

      There, much better.

      Seriously, in a massive dump of cables, or combat reports, how do you define who an 'accused' is? Especially when there's no accusation. And if there is no accusation, why leak the documents?

    3. Re:Throwing stones. by zeroshade · · Score: 1

      And before anybody comments, that in Assange's case, they are trumped up charges by the CIA or some government, please don't. The charges against him were filed before his current leaks which are pissing off many a government, particularly the US. Besides, do you really think if the CIA was clairvoyant, they wouldn't use this ability on something more important like Iraq or Afghanistan?

      The charges were filed just after the release of the Iraq war documents from Wikileaks, and were dismissed due to lack of evidence. They then came back to the forefront of media and everywhere with no new evidence just after the cable dump. Regardless whether you believe that it is a political attack or not, or whether you believe he is guilty or not, you have to admit it is a very large coincidence that the charges only showed up after he pissed off the US government, twice.

      That said, they could be just taking advantage of a situation that presented itself. It is really his word against theirs, however the only evidence that does exist is against them considering that one doesn't usually throw a party for their rapist after the rape occurred. They also didn't come forward until they talked to each other. The likely scenario, that I saw after the charges were originally filed, is that they had gone to the police in Sweden for advice on if there was some way to force him to take an STD test. Apparently he had convinced them both on separate occasions to have sex without a condom. When they learned of each other they had asked him to take a test and he refused. In Sweden you are allowed to ask "advice" from Police to avoid the situation of "filing a false report" that can happen. Supposedly an enterprising DA convinced Sexual misconduct charges to be had (note, not rape. Sexual misconduct) as a vehicle for forcing him to take a test.

      Of course the validity of that is in question, but it was claimed to be from a copy of the police report filed with the original charges. *Shrug* The point is that it's a he-said she-said case.

    4. Re:Throwing stones. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can hardly imagine someone having sex with me while I'm sleeping and not waking up. For that I'd have to be in a coma, drugged, heavily intoxicated, or otherwise incapacitated. The woman is obviously lying.

  32. I've heard differently by phorm · · Score: 5, Informative

    Really, because from what I've read, even the Pentagon had admitted that no troops were endangered by the leaks.

    Yes, they originally stated that lives were endangered, but later had to change their tune after they really couldn't find anything to that effect.

    So unless you count lives being endangered by people being more pissed off at the US in general (a symptom I attribute more to the ignorance of corporate-government policy and meddling than wikileaks), I'd say that the only real danger thus far has been to the careers of various high-up politicos and corporations.

    1. Re:I've heard differently by realisticradical · · Score: 1
      That does depend a bit on circumstances. There are many ways in which leaked documents that do not include military strategic information could endanger the lives of troops.

      The easiest example I could think up is if some of the leaked diplomatic cables lead us into an armed conflict. That could happen easily enough if something in there pisses off a world leader somewhere or if because the US can no longer keep its diplomatic communications secret nobody is willing to talk to us peacefully.

    2. Re:I've heard differently by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A study in modern propaganda by the ever awesome Greenwald addresses this point in detail:

      http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/10/17/wikileaks

      In summary, the US government spreads fear to willing media pundits and then MUCH later after opinion has already been cemented, acknowledges that no harm(to informants and the like) came as a consequence of the leak. I strongly recommend this article. It is chalk full of direct evidence of modern day propaganda techniques.

  33. Jealousy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jealousy.

    He had sex with one woman. No problem.
    He had sex with a second woman. No problem.
    The first woman gets to hear about his having sex with the second woman and the second woman gets to hear about his having sex with the first woman... and his problems develop from the time of that discovery.
    They decide to gang up against him and harm him as best they can.

    It's no conspiracy by the CIA. It's jealousy in a land whose laws favour the spiteful.

  34. Re:How does a condom break (no stupid jokes please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Something in the ladies vagina broke it.

  35. Re:Chapter 1 by Amiga+Trombone · · Score: 1

    Haven't I seen this post somewhere before?

  36. Re:How does a condom break (no stupid jokes please by Philomage · · Score: 2

    Quite easily actually. If you want to test it have your girlfriend clench her thighs just before you thrust... many women know this and use it as a test of their boyfriend's fidelity. (As in, "which is more important to him, my safety or his pleasure?")

  37. never by skywatcher2501 · · Score: 1

    this joke will never get old

  38. Julian Ass Anger? by mangu · · Score: 1

    With a name like that, life in school must have been hell for him.

  39. Re:One of the women has links to anti-Castro group by pipatron · · Score: 1

    "described by media".. She's very officially a member of the Swedish social democrats, not a communist party but yes, a "leftist" one.

    --
    c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
  40. Re:How does a condom break (no stupid jokes please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's actually not that difficult that it breaks if there's very little lubrication, with each thrust it stretches more and more until it breaks. And yes, you can feel it broken because the penis causes less friction than a dry condom -- though you can easily mistake it for the onset of vaginal fluid production.

  41. Reminds of a joke... by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 2

    This geek, an uber-nerd, who looks like a cross between Johnny Winters and a vampire goes to see a priest. "I want to confess," he says. "But you're not Catholic, you're not even religious. Why would you want to confess?" "Please! I must!" So the priest says okay. And the albino vampire tells him, "The other week I fucked these two girls." "Yes, my son." "They were a couple of Swedish chicks, both great in bed." "Continue, young man." "One of them though I was such a good lay, she threw me a party. And the other one liked it so much she emailed all her friends." "This is a sin, but I don't understand why you're telling me this." "Telling you?", says the vampire, "I'm telling everyone!"

  42. Very detailed and consistent Reuters report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Reuters says : The two Swedish women who accuse WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange of sexual misconduct were at first not seeking to bring charges against him. They just wanted to track him down and persuade him to be tested for sexually transmitted diseases, according to several people in contact with his entourage at the time.

    The women went to the police together after they failed to persuade Assange to go to a doctor after separate sexual encounters with him in August, according to these people, who include former close associates of Assange who have since fallen out with him.

    1. Re:Very detailed and consistent Reuters report by Shompol · · Score: 1

      Omitted is the fact that they forgot to inform Assange that they were "trying persuade him", before going to court. The facts are easily twisted. These women clearly have an angle at this, something beyond revenge, and what they say is a part of the show.

    2. Re:Very detailed and consistent Reuters report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What else is clearly omitted is the fact that we're talking about Julian. Come on, who you going to believe? He is on the side of righteousness and truth. For due diligence all they needed to do was ask him if he did it, and if he says "no", that should be the end of it. Clearly these women wanted it. Deep down we all want to sleep with Julian.

  43. Cognitive dissonance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >>> state that their encounters with him began consensually, but became non-consensual

    Then later,

    >>> Both women say that Assange first agreed to use a condom and then refused, [...] and in the second [instance] by having sex without using a condom with a woman who was asleep.

    Consensual sex with a sleeping woman? How does one give consent or negotiate the terms for consent when one is asleep?

  44. Re:One of the women has links to anti-Castro group by poity · · Score: 2

    It's pretty easy to say "has ties to" and make implications, but none of those links in the article point to specific relationships. It says she wrote articles for an "anti-Castro" magazine. This magazine is accused of by one Swedish professor as having connections with an "anti-Castro" organization. Among this organization's leaders is one man who once had a public argument with a critic where he threw out some personal accusations. A blogger read these accusations, disregarded any possibility of baseless sparring between adversaries, and believed them too specific for a single man to uncover. Then, in true conspiracy theorist fashion, he searched the internet for tenuous connections between this man and US foreign aid programs as evidence

    Now, let's forget about this subtle "anti-Castro"/"pro-democracy" turn of phrase, and judge these sites for the time being as unbiased, and work backwards from US foreign aid programs to Ardin. How many leaps across fact-less precipices must one make in order to arrive from one end to the other? I'd say one is too many for a rational man. I invite everyone to read all those links on counterpunch.org and to explain how this is any different from accusations thrown by 911 truthers.

    --
    your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
  45. Re:One of the women has links to anti-Castro group by poity · · Score: 1

    I meant to finish that sentence "...between this man and US foreign aid programs as evidence of CIA influence so as to discredit him."
    That's the entire chain of links summarized.

    --
    your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
  46. Hosted somewhere? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If only there were some kind of website that could host leaked information, in a wiki format perhaps. Some sort of LeakWiki maybe?

  47. Are you an idiot? by fishexe · · Score: 1

    Shouldn't Assange have already posted it?

    If it's a confidential internal police document, how would he have posted it prior to it being leaked?

    There isn't any hypocrisy here, is there?

    I'm not trolling -- I mean, seriously?

    Yeah, not being omniscient makes him a real hypocrite. I mean, seriously. If he's posting documents in his possession, then for God's sake, he ought to also post documents NOT in his possession! To do otherwise would be hypocrisy! It would be a double standard!

    --
    "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
  48. Ideally... by ArmchairGeneral · · Score: 2

    As much as to the positive things being done by WikiLeaks, Julian is putting himself out there, literally. Where he is being the frontman for WikiLeaks, he has allowed himself to get into this kind of a mess. Don't get me wrong, I'm not doing the holier than thou. He knew the shitstorm that was going to happen with the cable leaks and he put himself into an unfavorable position. I would bet that if the scenario played out a dozen other times with minor changes, this wouldn't have happened, just some bad timing.

  49. Re:How does a condom break (no stupid jokes please by fishexe · · Score: 3, Funny

    I think the only reasonable conclusion is this: Julian Assange has an ungodly large penis.

    --
    "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
  50. Of course it's related! by EWAdams · · Score: 1

    He's intelligently using his strengths where they will most benefit his purpose. Compare with other celebrities who have huge egos and are media whores, e.g. Paris Hilton. How many of them use those qualities as a way of drawing attention to lies and duplicity at the highest levels of the US government? No, instead they use them to make money.

    If you're not a media whore, you're a pretty stupid and useless kind of activist. Assange is doing something interesting and worthwhile with his whoredom.

    --
    I piss off bigots.
    1. Re:Of course it's related! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree that these strengths of his are to benefit his purpose, but I see that purpose is to advance himself. Time may prove me wrong, but I see Wikileaks as his "thing;" his niche he's carved out that has made him famous. How wholeheartedly he believes in it is immaterial at this point. He's now the "stands up to the United States guy," complete with an inflated sense of self worth, intellectual capacity and moral standing. He is today's Ralph Nader (the "stand up to the Evil Corporation guy") or Jesse Jackson (the "stand up to The Man guy"). And just like those two, assuming nothing comes of this legal stuff, he'll soon enough be everywhere espousing on topics entirely unrelated to what made him famous. His cause célèbre will make him the darling to people like Hugo Chavez who'll go out of their way to honor him simply as an embarrassment to the US. Eventually his hardcore fans will morph their views with him, the ones who are dedicated to his cause will become disillusioned with him, and the rest of us will wish he'll just go away. Perhaps with the speed of the current media landscape he can live out this whole life cycle much quicker than we had to put up with Nader, Jackson, and the rest.

      Feel free to take him at his word because you agree with the things he says. In some people's minds, some around here evidently, he is practically infallible because they agree with the things he says. As for me, mainly because of the things he says (the comments against Western society in general, and the US in particular cast doubt that his motivating agenda is not much more than anti-US than it is about openness), I see this as the same old rehashed story of the same old megalomaniac.

      No, instead they use them to make money.

      Yes, but we'll see how this story plays out. My guess is that he'll end up on the other end of the money spectrum from where, say, Mother Theresa did.

    2. Re:Of course it's related! by rhizome · · Score: 1

      I agree that these strengths of his are to benefit his purpose, but I see that purpose is to advance himself.

      You're making a category error. He is advancing himself no more than an antenna is advancing its plans to become a skyscraper.

      --
      When I was a kid, we only had one Darth.
  51. Not in an ideal society by fantomas · · Score: 1

    Ideally no, a police investigation isn't "government dealings". Maybe in your country the two are the same but I believe some countries strive to separate the two. This would be a better position to be in, to allow fair and independent investigation of politicians by police officers when required.

    1. Re:Not in an ideal society by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      That’s a red herring. Regardless of whether you want the “government” and the “police” to be separate, they should both be accountable for their actions.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
    2. Re:Not in an ideal society by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      Ideally no, a police investigation isn't "government dealings". Maybe in your country the two are the same but I believe some countries strive to separate the two.

      A few things:

      1) In what mythical countries is there a complete separation between government and law enforcement?
      2) If such separation existed, are you claiming law enforcement operations shouldn't be subject to whistleblowing?
      3) "Ideally", wikileaks wouldn't be needed in the first fucking place. Speaking of an "ideal" world when the world is so clearly not ideal betrays amusing naivete.

  52. Sourced to a fucking blog??? by 1u3hr · · Score: 3, Informative
    Why on earth does Slashdot source this story to a blog -- http://hypedtalk.blogspot.com/2010/12/report-prepared-by-secret-swedish.html -- that quotes a "Press Trust of India" story !!, that quotes an unnamed New York Times article.

    For FUCK'S sake, cite the fucking original source not what has been passed through all these useless parasites regurgitating while diluting and colouring whatever facts there were at each step? So, it took me 2 whole minutes to find at http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/world/europe/19assange.html

    What next: A Tweet referring to a blog copying a Usenet post... How can the editors let these douchebags promote their worthless blogs like this, in the guise of a news story they've plagiarised from someone else?

  53. Liar. by copponex · · Score: 1

    Other Muslim countries do not have any rule to punish a raped person.

    Bangladesh. Indonesia. Saudi Arabia (again). Mauritania. Pakistan. India. Turkey.

    I could, of course, go on. This doesn't even touch honor killings that aren't part of State-backed mistreatment of victims of rape. I don't believe the United States should be dumb enough to think it can make people change their minds on women's rights through violence, but I also don't think we should be allies with nations that ignore this type of behavior.

    1. Re:Liar. by wmac · · Score: 1

      The titleof your first link is "Bangladesh: Court Orders Protection for Muslim Girl Punished for Being Raped".

      It obviously shows that the official and religious rules do not dictate such pathetic acts. The court has ordered protection for the lady.

      If it was a religious thing it should have been valid in all Muslim countries or at least all countries abiding from a specific sect (like Shia, Sunni etc).

      Similar acts are performed in African countries (non-Muslim, christian or tribes), India (Hindu) and even in US (mostly Christian).

    2. Re:Liar. by clone52431 · · Score: 1

      It obviously shows that the official and religious rules do not dictate such pathetic acts. The court has ordered protection for the lady.

      The High Court, which only had to get involved because the lower-level authorities had dictated those acts.

      --
      Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
  54. If the condom dont fit by Bruha · · Score: 2

    You must Acquit.

  55. Wow... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, one point of view is +5 insightful and the other guy who has an opposite point of view is a troll.

    I hope this will balance itself out overtime.

  56. Re:One of the women has links to anti-Castro group by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anna Ardin (the official complainant) is often described by the media as a “leftist”. She has ties to the US-financed anti-Castro and anti-communist groups link

    So a leftist can't be anti-Castro or anti-Communist?

    That's not just a lame strawman you implictly tossed up there, it's a damn anencephailic Thalidomide strawman.

  57. Re:One of the women has links to anti-Castro group by gibson_81 · · Score: 1

    "Leftist" indeed. Not leftist though. The social democrats and the moderates were traditionally the biggest parties for left/right politics, but now they are both moving towards a middle point somewhere to the right of where the old center used to be. (Moderates are changing their rhethoric to be more appealing to workers, while still running a policy that's a lot better for people with high incomes, while the social democrats are copying the moderate ideas and recently said that they must stop trying to be a voice for unemployed or too-sick-to-work people)

  58. Head leaker's head leak leaked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or something to that effect. Can you do better?

  59. Re:One of the women has links to anti-Castro group by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    She has also done a runner to the West Bank - so Israel didn't consider her threat.

  60. Why paint black and white? by amn108 · · Score: 1

    I personally think Mr. Assange did commit rape. I think it's not about being a pig or not being a pig - it's not black and white - men can be rude. Of course this wouldn't apply to slashdotters, as nerds are known to be on the gentler side, but Assange is a different character. Doesn't mean he is a scumbag - I think he met two attractive and liberated women and sort of failed to well, show his better side. Also, consider that Anna Ardin has withdrawn her charges and apparently holds little to no grudge against him, in light of the proportions this has taken. It is irrelevant what character she is - people have had sex and quarreled, something didn't go very much in a gentlemen-like manner. Pity. That said, I think Wikileaks needs to proceed, and Assange SHOULD be imprisoned FOR RAPE (not whatever U.S. would love to put on him while he is in the process of risking jail in Sweden.)

    Has anyone of you by chance had sex with Swedish women? They're completely out of control in bed, like furias or something. It's fireworks all the way. Imagine you're a guy exclusively preoccupied with waging war on unrighteous and the liars and idealistic enough to stand up to U.S. government, you come to Sweden, hook up with friends, they take you to a bar, are infatuated with you and you get to get under the bed sheets with hot Swedish young women who can't get enough of you. Oh gee, a condom broke - let's lock this asshole up for 100 years in prison and i dunno, whip his feet with iron rods. Because media can't make up their mind and neither can we - should we hate or love Assange? Well, how about a dose of reality - people make mistakes, sometimes really ugly mistakes, but the world is not black and white. This doesn't mean that the rich and powerful get to keep their secrets though - everyone can benefit from forced change and venting off once in a while, including and ESPECIALLY a government gone too comfortable with the darker side of politics. So I say put yourself in Assange shoes and imagine what would it take for you to end up where he end up.

    1. Re:Why paint black and white? by brit74 · · Score: 1

      Has anyone of you by chance had sex with Swedish women? They're completely out of control in bed, like furias or something. It's fireworks all the way.

      Heh, heh. How ridiculous to say that all Swedish women are crazy in bed.

      Imagine you're a guy exclusively preoccupied with waging war on unrighteous and the liars and idealistic enough to stand up to U.S. government, you come to Sweden..

      Or, imagine your a cool hacker who likes having power over other people ("I can break into your computers and steal your secrets. You can't stop me. I am a god.") And you have a dictatorial streak (as confirmed by people who have worked with him) and you crave fame for your ego's appeasement. Now, you can also use this newfound fame for sex. Women are easy for a man like that. In fact, you'd even steal men's girlfriends in bars, as a sign of your power (he's been known to hit on women at bars right in front of their boyfriends). Is that a manifestation of his power - to take the girlfriend, to disrespect the boyfriend despite his desire to stop it from happening? Imagine what an ego-trip it would be if you could sleep with famous politicians wives (he's also bragged about that). Not only are you manifesting your power over those politicians by sleeping with their wives, but you've now got a secret scandal that could end up in major newspapers. Meh. Assange sounds like a pretty ugly human being with a sex and power addiction, and Wikileaks is his vehicle.

  61. Re:One of the women has links to anti-Castro group by hajus · · Score: 1

    This isn't the first place I've heard this, but this terminology confuses me. I would think being anti-communist would qualify her as being a rightist as communism is seen as leftist. Or do the terms here mean something other than what I'm used to?

  62. Re:How does a condom break (no stupid jokes please by Svenne · · Score: 1

    What good would that do if the boyfriend doesn't know this? No, you generally can't tell if the condom breaks unless it's a really wierd model.

    --

    Slagborr
  63. Re:One of the women has links to anti-Castro group by Optic7 · · Score: 1

    Here's something I've never understood about how I've seen this woman being labeled by the media: if she's a "leftist" wouldn't she be more likely to be pro-Castro and pro-Communist instead of the opposite? Or is she some kind of convoluted center-left that's actually anti-extreme-left?

  64. Re:How does a condom break (no stupid jokes please by Philomage · · Score: 1

    The feeling's entirely different. You know when your condom breaks.

  65. i support wikileaks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is wikileaks so important and popular? People are tired of secrets that sacrifice the public interests.

  66. Re:One of the women has links to anti-Castro group by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...on Alexander Cockburn’s far-left website Counterpunch by the writers Israel Shamir and Paul Bennett (more on them in a moment) positing that because Ardin, who wrote a master’s thesis on the Cuban opposition movement, visited the "Ladies in White"—a group comprised of female relatives of jailed Cuban dissidents—while conducting research in Havana, and the vile extremist Cuban exile Luis Posada Carriles (who was once employed by the CIA) went to a Miami protest on behalf of the Ladies in White, it follows that Ardin is therefore connected to the CIA. Got that? In 2007, the Ladies in White were presented with the Sakharov Prize for Freedom of Thought from the European Parliament, raising the tantalizing possibly that Ardin is also an agent of Brussels."

    http://reason.com/archives/2010/12/07/olbermann-assange-and-the-holo

  67. Re:How does a condom break (no stupid jokes please by Ismellpoop · · Score: 1

    Actually condoms tend to get really dry before they break. If its dry-dry-dry-wet it pretty safe to assume the condom didn't automatically lube itself.

  68. Confused... by c_jonescc · · Score: 1

    I'm confused by both accounts, to be honest. I'll make no claims on who is in the right, but the information just seems strange to me.

    Case 1 - did not stop sex after condom broke. I personally have never experienced a broken condom. It is something I'm rather paranoid about, and as such, check that condoms are not leaking after having sex. I've always been under the assumption that during continuous activity there would be no way to know about a break. So, how can someone ask me to stop for a reason they are unable to know about?

    Case 2 - how in the world does someone consent to sex that was initiated while fully asleep? Unless saying, "I'm going to sleep now, but feel free to have sex with me while I'm out", I don't see how consent could be involved.

    Regardless, this is a situation that's certainly raising questions - both in innate cultural misogyny and in the realm of plausible political conspiracy.

    I'm curious to see how things turn out, and desperately hope that wikileaks can survive this, that my government isn't engaged in a smear campaign for conspiracy, and that Assange gets punishment in line with how faulty his character really is - freed if innocent, punished if a rapist.

    --
    Getting diabetes AND salmonella would be a bad weekend.
  69. Lupus? I mean Syphilis. by copponex · · Score: 1

    I always get them confused. Long story.

  70. Re:One of the women has links to anti-Castro group by tnk1 · · Score: 1

    Like any charged term "leftist" can mean many things. Her reasons for not liking Castro may be for some of the same reasons Trotsky didn't like Stalin, while both were definitely described as leftists AND communists. She might be the sort of leftist who doesn't believe in communism, or maybe she disagrees with what Castro did with communism, or perhaps she believes that being a leftist should preclude you from having political prisoners and being generally anti-democratic.

  71. geeeeeeeez by unity100 · · Score: 1

    man, how could he already have posted it, if it was leaked just recently ...

  72. The backstory is most important by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
    What is important is knowing the background: first, the youngest of these two women is 27 years old.

    Secondly, the oldest, over 30 years of age, worked at GT, the Gothenberg Expressen edition, and later worked for Swedish intelligence (MUST) through their embassies in South America and Cuba.

    Also, Claues Borgstrom, one of the two partners of the law firm representing these two women, has two sisters who work for the Bonnier family, the media masters of Sweden, who also own that tabloid, Expressen, whence the first leaked stories appeared.

    Now, the second partner, Thomas Bodstrom, is a published fiction author, and while the Bonnier family doesn't appear to own the publisher of his books, they do own the online company where they are sold (AdLibris).

    Is this simply financially significant, or is there more? The Bonnier family has had long ties with the Swedish intel establishment, but best not to go into detail on that. By the way, Thomas Bodstrom happens to be in the USA (in the New York to Washington, D.C. corridtor) during the highest profile case of his firm?

    Most likely, to coordinate the extradition to America, which is primarily what all this subterfuge is about. This entire thing has been handled by leaks: multiple and constant leaks from the Swedish Prosecution Authority regarding the ongoing case and Assange's file, etc.

    And then there's Bodstrom's former cabinet co-member and former adviser, Par Nuder, recently appointed a director at Madeleine Albright's international lobbyist group, Albright Stonebridge Group.

  73. Due Process by Wolfling1 · · Score: 2

    So many posts about whether he's innocent or guilty...

    There is a legal process to establish the fact of that. It will be decided by a jury or a panel of judges depending on the laws in Sweden.

    This tirade of posts declaring his obvious guilt or innocence is just opinionated pandering to the government spin doctors who are trying to detract interest away from the substance of the leaks.

    Its not our job to decide Julian Assange's fate. In trying to do so, we are reducing the chance that he will have any kind of fair trial.

    Shouldn't we be more interested in our governments' lack of action regarding the crimes evidenced in the cablegate leaks?

  74. Re:How does a condom break (no stupid jokes please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually it's really small.

  75. Re:How does a condom break (no stupid jokes please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    or god-like

  76. Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 41 Section 873 by medv4380 · · Score: 1

    The existence of the insurance file regardless of the Rick Roll content and him saying I'll release all these secrets if you shut me down is undeniably Black Mail, and he should have his year in prison and the fine for doing it. It is what makes him a despicable deplorable human being, and doesn't help him in other arguments about the type of character he is. It is also why he isn't a journalist of any kind.

    Now the rape can go ether way in my opinion but I view it's probably all just a contrived story that he and the girls colluded to get a conspiracy theorists spot light on him.

    1. Re:Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 41 Section 873 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The existence of the insurance file regardless of the Rick Roll content and him saying I'll release all these secrets if you shut me down is undeniably Black Mail,

      That's undeniable bullshit. See, anyone can make outlandish unsupported statements.

  77. Idealism is worthwhile by fantomas · · Score: 1

    If you don't have ideals, or try to improve your lot or that of your fellow citizens, I'd say you're in a pretty bad place.

    1. Re:Idealism is worthwhile by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      If you don't have ideals, or try to improve your lot or that of your fellow citizens, I'd say you're in a pretty bad place.

      Yeah, go ask Karl Marx how well his "ideals" stood up to reality.

      Or: In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not.

  78. So what have we learned by horza · · Score: 2

    So far I've picked up from this thread:
    a) Julian Assange may have two-timed a couple of women
    b) He probably isn't gay

    Who cares? Did Tiger Woods leave a gossip void that simply needed to be filled?

    Phillip.

  79. What happened to due process? by Steeltoe · · Score: 1

    So he should return in order to be interrogated? How can he "prove his innocence"? What defense lawyer in their right mind would recommend him to return and incriminate himself? Getting him to talk in Sweden, a totally foreign country for Assange, they can come up with any and all charges at their own leisure.

    It is the Swedish prosecutor who must now file formal charges, something they have not done yet. Only "allegations", which mysteriously to all, finds its way on the Interpol (very very suspicious).

    "Allegations" are not charges. How can Assange defend himself against unspecified crimes?

    This combined with PayPal, VISA, Mastercard, Swiss banks and Bank Of America preventing their customers to transfer money to Wikileaks, smells like something very very rotten.

    Exactly what Wikileaks is created to expose!

    Btw, did you know promiscuity may be genetically triggered? We should not be so quick to condemn. Look at the bigger picture.

  80. So the whole thing is overruled? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If Assange stands upon a pedestal and says, with a smirk on his face, that they fucked again and leaves, laughing at the charges?

  81. Background Reading by Etyme · · Score: 1

    Everybody needs to go read The Myth of Male Power . Like, right now. SOOOOOOOOO relevant to this article.

  82. Assange gets screwed hard-time by Steeltoe · · Score: 2

    Once a formal charge is filed, you can bet these women's sorry ass a counter-suit for untruthful allegations and collaboration is to follow.

    But by the time all this has blown over, Assange's life will already have been ruined by the powerful people behind the invisible strings. These sex-allegations are perfect, dubious and speculative, but enough to mow down Assange and his credibility, together with the denial of all business with every major corporation on the planet. The right to possess money (banking) has already been taken away from him, without any evidence of criminal activity or judgements against him.

    Who will step up and assist him now? It will be professional and personal suicide.. You will also get registered and surveilled for the rest of your life.

    Unless we expose it all that is.

  83. They got Clinton out pretty fast.. by Steeltoe · · Score: 1

    If they can throw Clinton out of office for having sex with a secretary, when Bush can start wars on false grounds, and most presidents are known for similar "extravagance", then this is just more of the same shit.

    It's not that we condone Mr. Assange's or Clinton's behaviour. But it is not criminal, just a leverage for someone behind the scenes to manipulate media and everyone into getting what they want.

    What we need to do is reward and support those who expose such abuse of power, even if it is just "political".

  84. Interpol by DrVomact · · Score: 1

    I've not had much trust in nor respect for Interpol since I learned that Reinhard Heydrich (a.k.a. "The Butcher of Prague") was president of Interpol from 24 August 1940 to 4 June 1942.

    --
    Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    1. Re:Interpol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From 2004 to 2008 Jackie Selebi was in charge. Another paragon of virtue.

  85. And today, a member of parliament in Sweden ... by St.Creed · · Score: 1

    ...said that they would consider the US extradiction requests and would probably (not certainly but only *probably* - yeah right) extradite him the second he set foot on Swedish soil.

    Apparently, rape charges are not as serious as the request of the US to extradite someone for acts that are legal in the country he lives in at the time, and are legal in Sweden as well.

    And in other worldnews, Hungary has passed a law bringing heavy fines into play for any media that is not providing "moral" and "objective" news. Since the judge of that has just been confirmed (for 9 years) by the very conservative government, most people think this *won't* be used against the fascist movement of Jobbik, but probably against people reporting on embarrassing news like Wikileaks cables. Fines can go up to 700000 euro per violation, which is quite a lot compared to the monthly wage in Hungary. Oh, and all media has to register. That includes you, bloggers.

    ...

    People can call Assange whatever they like, and he may be the biggest scumbag in the world, but if you don't see the writing on the wall writ large for freedom of the press, you need glasses.

    --
    Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
  86. Re:One of the women has links to anti-Castro group by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anna Ardin (the official complainant) is often described by the media as a “leftist”. She has ties to the US-financed anti-Castro and anti-communist groups link

    That article contains more factual errors in every sentence then I thought was possible. Don't they check any facts? They even get simple things like the spelling and capitalisation of Säpo wrong (and it isn't a "secret police" it's a security service, even though it is somewhat more secretive then other branches of the Swedish police force, it is still open for investigation by representatives of the Swedish public (mostly journalists and politicians, you have to get a security clearance (it isn't that hard, it is on the same level that you need to go sailing in some archipelagos in Sweden, basically you have to be a Swedish citizen and haven't done anything really extreme in your past, even weird people like me, with really radical friends, get higher grade security clearance then the one required), they are in turn allowed to reveal all generic mechanisms used by Säpo to everybody they like, as long as they don't reveal any specific information they have happened to see).

  87. Re:One of the women has links to anti-Castro group by mcneely.mike · · Score: 1

    Wow! Was her name Marina Oswald?
    'Cause then i'd be guessing the magic bullet is Assange's condom leak went 'back, and to the left'.
    Just a guess there, Jerry.

    --
    soylentnews.org Go there to enjoy the people!
  88. Having unprotected sex can lead to complications.. by SlovakWakko · · Score: 1

    ...and if the nature doesn't supply any, we still have the lawyers :) Well, the Swedish bikini team doesn't look so hot now, does it?

  89. 2 women? @@7 Rules! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At the same time? Two Swedish women at that! Holy cow! Now only does he risk his neck (and all other limbs) by helping to make our world a better place with his technological ideas, he's also the man with the (Swedish) babes! He truly is a digital James Bond! @@7 I'll call him from now on! Now that's what I call someone to idolize! :)

  90. Alternately by cyclomedia · · Score: 1

    When they met and realized the same guy had done the same thing to someone else they realized that what happened to them was not an "accident", that they didn't somehow misunderstand, that their self doubt was unjustified and that this guy needed reporting.

    --
    If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
  91. Given what he's actually accused of... by Geminii · · Score: 1

    Did either of these women actually expect Julian Assange to keep something under wraps?

  92. next time i have sex in sweden by shnull · · Score: 0

    i'll install some spycams first

    --
    beware he who denies you access to information for in his mind, he already deems himself to be your master (SMAC-ish)