Sony Planning Serial Keys For PS3 Games?

Stoobalou writes "Rumor has it that Sony is looking to the PC games market to help solve its growing piracy problem on the PlayStation 3 — with the introduction of serial keys to its games. According to 'a very reliable source' quoted by PS3-Sense, Sony is attempting to address the recent revelation that it failed to properly secure the private signing key for its flagship console — leading to clever tinkerers producing third-party firmware that allows unofficial software and illegitimately downloaded games to run on unmodified hardware — by looking to the PC retail market for solutions. Unlike the PS3, the PC doesn't have a hardware DRM system built in to it — despite attempts by groups like the Trusted Computing Group, formerly the Trusted Computer Platform Alliance, to introduce such a thing — relying instead on software-based DRM and a surprisingly old-fashioned guarantee of a game's uniqueness: a serial key."

Comments

Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[eldavojohn]

From the article:

Printed on the product's packaging, the key is a unique identifier that promises that the game is the real deal - and usually verifies itself with an online server

So in order to play disc games you're going to require an internet connection?

And, just as speculation, wouldn't it be possible for someone to figure out what the server is sending the gaming console as an acknowledgment code and then setup a local area network that directs the PS3's requests to that IP address to connect to your own computer and send the same key acknowledgment notification? Sure, it's more work but history has shown that just means a little more time.

This just seems implausible and ineffective on so many levels ...

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[MoonBuggy]

This just seems implausible and ineffective on so many levels ...

Unfortunately that is often not sufficient to prevent a given DRM scheme from being implemented.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[HarrySquatter]

So in order to play disc games you're going to require an internet connection?

Yeah, and? How is this new? There routinely have been required updates that one has had to get to play new PS3 games or watch Blu-Ray movies.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[mark72005]

So you are saying that if I had an unpatched PS3 with no internet connection, I couldn't buy a game off the rack and play it today?

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[andymadigan]

That workaround is the simplest one for DRM to avoid. Burn a public key into the game, have the game generate a random number and send it to the server, the server must respond with that random number, signed using the private key that matches the public key in the game.

Of course, Sony doesn't seem to be competent when it comes to RSA... and there's still the fact that you should be able to modify the software to remove the DRM.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Sable Drakon]

Keep in mind that they may make this whole system a part of PSN's authentication system. Meaning this workaround would force anyone using it to be unable to play their games online while it's in use.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

This just seems implausible and ineffective on so many levels ...

This is going to be a total disaster. Console gamers have enjoyed instant on convenience, game sharing/lending/selling, and in general a concrete certainty that the disc they hold in their hands is guaranteed to work on any console without a hitch. You cannot turn around and change all that overnight without seriously ruffling feathers. Console gamers will expect these features implicitly--it's tradition!

A recent game, Assassin's Creed:Brotherhood, came with a one time serial code which could be used to obtain downloadable content. Lots of console players simply didn't bother. The concept of typing in this alpha-numeric hieroglyph, originally designed for commercial office software, was simply alien to them. It goes beyond intelligence or capability, and enters the realm of culture and society. Console gamers simply don't work this way. This move is taking Sony into three shells territory.

This isn't going to fly. This is going to crash and burn. I foresee droves of console gamers being driven to console hacking by this move. The smart option is simply to place more focus on downloadable titles, content and network features in title, incentiveising people to stay on PSN, and not bother with all that complicated geek stuff. But when it comes to consumer relations, Sony never misses an opportunity to miss and opportunity.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Anonymous Coward]

Believe it or not, the PS3 already does phone home when you install new games. Though if your network connection isn't enabled it wont break anything.

This became apparent with the introduction and beta test of their 'Playstation Rewards' program, where you get reward points for installing new games. Mind you, when they say new, they mean not games that have been installed or played on other PS3s. Since they can tell when a game has been installed before, they must be already tracking game unique IDs.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[zegota]

This is false. Games that require a certain firmware include the firmware on the disk.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[SirMasterboy]

I don't think it's that easy. I have never seen someone successfully crack most PC games' multiplayer. The server simply disconnects you if you don't send them a serial that exists in their database of sold serials.

Though this system would be more similar to Steam or WoW. You have a gamer account that you add your keys to and then the system allows that account to play.

With how popular WoW and Steam are, nobody yet has managed to crack them to be able to connect and play on the real severs with other legitimate WoW and Steam players without a real serial key attached to their account.

If the mass of PC hackers can't do it on one of the most popular PC games and platforms then I don't see this happening on a game console.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[lgw]

If that check were part of the game software you could just remove the check in the pirated version. If it were in hardware, you can still defeat that approach if you own the hardware that generates the random number, often by causing a temperature or voltage excursion while the random number is being generated (this is why FIPS 140 level 4 exists). Still, it would be a pretty easy way for Sony to significantly raise the bar on its copy protection without interfering with people who want to use the PS3 for somehting else entirely.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Somebody Is Using My]

(I originally wrote this article for the PC Gaming Alliance article posted this morning... but since it's relevant to this discussion too I think I'll just copy and paste it again into this thread ;-)

People keep harping about how useless DRM is against preventing piracy. And this is undeniably true; at best it might slow down people from copying games, but often not even that. So why, everyone wonders, do companies still insist on wasting resources, losing money, programmers, even loyal customers on a boondoggle that has been proven to be ineffective?

Because DRM is no longer only about stopping piracy. It has oh-so-many other advantages.

1) It kills second-hand sales.

2) It enables forced obsolescence (kill the registration servers and you can't play the game anymore)

3) It ensures a one-title, one machine policy. Own a lap-top AND a desktop? You can't play the game on both.

4) Online activation requires a user to be online and transmit data to the publisher. You can use this to collect valuable demographic info (also, since the customer has to be online anyway, you might as well push advertisements down his way to earn even more cash!)

5) It slowly pushes users to become more accepting of service-based licenses (e.g., subscription gaming) instead of single-sales.

6) It reassures investors that the publisher is protecting their property.

That it might have some minimal effect on slowing illegal copying of games is just an added bonus at this point. It's less a way of preventing piracy at this point as it is of maximizing the publisher's income. Don't expect it to go away anytime soon, no matter how much the customers hate it.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Megane]

And as a bonus, it prevents resale of used games, too!

I'm sure Game Stop would just love the idea one-time-use registration codes coming with all new PS3 games. They'd be so happy to only have to sell new PS3 games at low margins. Just look at how many less EA and Madden sports titles they'd no longer have to keep putting back up on the shelf!

That's not to mention what about people with PS3s who don't have a network connection? I'm sure they'll also love this.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Outthere057]

battlefield bad company 2 already does this. it is called a vip code. you can play the single player and the maps that are in the demo online but without the Vip code you have no access to the other maps

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[rgviza]

It's likely you'll only need to do this for playing online. Like you said, if the person doesn't have a connection, they'd be screwed otherwise.

This most likely a bid to break the used game market as opposed to piracy concerns. Piracy is the excuse they will be using.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Gaygirlie]

And, just as speculation, wouldn't it be possible for someone to figure out what the server is sending the gaming console as an acknowledgment code and then setup a local area network that directs the PS3's requests to that IP address to connect to your own computer and send the same key acknowledgment notification? Sure, it's more work but history has shown that just means a little more time.

Sure, but even that is unnecessary. Pirates can just decrypt the executables on the disc, remove the check, and create a small .pkg with the cracked executable that you install after installing the game.

Of course online play wouldn't probably work then as the serial keys would be checked by the servers, but single-player games would work like nothing had ever happened.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[mcgrew]

The only thing that will stop DRM is if people stop buying crap (yes CRAP) with DRM. We geezers did it in the late eighties; DRM on games disappeared entirly. Do you young folks have the balls? I'm guessing "no".

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Unless Sony really fucks up their crypto(again), no level of network cleverness will help. SSL/TLS verification of a remote host isn't rocket surgery...

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[CohibaVancouver]

wouldn't it be possible for someone to figure out what the server is sending the gaming console as an acknowledgment code and then setup a local area network that directs the PS3's requests to that IP address to connect to your own computer and send the same key acknowledgment notification?

For gorram's sake, just buy the damn game and be done with it.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[scorp1us]

Well, when I installed AC2, it required me to perform a system update. So you pretty much have to have a connection anyway.

What, should we all start demanding update disks sent to us, thus raising the costs to Sony? If I can't buy a single player game and play it without internet and without free updates, then there's some kind of collusion there.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Cinder6]

During the leap year bug last year, we learned that some PS3 games already require a connection, even if there's no logical reason for it. Heavy Rain, for instance, refused to play offline, due to some "live trophy" system or whatever it was called.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Moryath]

"Local network level" = a $30 linksys router. Linux enablement optional.

It ain't that hard.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Phoobarnvaz]

Thank God I bought a 360. Nothing like this I need to worry about there. Plus...got it hooked up to the Media Center Extender in the living room with a TV Tuner...so it plays games and I can watch TV...without inputting a code before doing anything.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[dunezone]

Comparing today and 30 years ago is like comparing apples to oranges.

I will assume you are talking about DRM on old computer software back when the home computer was not in everyone's home and those who owned them were those that were interested. The harder forms of DRM died because the market was very small and anyone who owned a computer discussed these issues with each other. Also it didn't really die it just wasn't as restrictive and abusive, for example looking up a code in the manual of your legally purchased game.

The problem today with the PS3 or Xbox is that EVERYONE owns them and the market is huge, its not longer "geeks and nerds" who own the hardware, pretty much everyone does. So for the 100 of us on Slashdot that say we wont buy into it, there are 5000 other people who just don't give a damn or have no clue what DRM is and if you explained it to them they still wouldnt care.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[dieth]

What? I loved the DRM from the 80s and 90s.

That shit was awesome it was worked into the games in some cases.

Take Kings Quest VI for example, the DRM is hard to spot, and is mixed directly into the games lore.
If you don't have the "Guide to the Isle" about half way through the game you get to a puzzle that requires you referencing a character replacement map.
Now games have no manuals, no guides, no lore.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Briden]

exactly, thanks for that.

this is why i will never buy a PS3

in fact, i won't even buy any sony products at all, due to this.

i don't understand why the system is still selling like hotcakes..

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[mcgrew]

I was referring to some of the crap they pulled with their install floppies, like putting a hole in a certain spot to make the pirate version different than the legit version; in this scheme, if the program could write to the "dead" spt it was a pirate copy. Trouble was, if your head wasn't perfectly lined up, it would flag a brand new legit copy as a pirate copy.

They had many such schemes, and like the present DRM, they never did anything to stop piracy and all it accomplished was to piss off paying customers.

The "what is the second word on page six?" stuff was annoying, but not badly annoying. It's been so long since I played KQ that I don't remember any DRM at all, not even the "manual" stuff (which I wouldn't call DRM anyway).

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[tlhIngan]

This is going to be a total disaster. Console gamers have enjoyed instant on convenience, game sharing/lending/selling, and in general a concrete certainty that the disc they hold in their hands is guaranteed to work on any console without a hitch. You cannot turn around and change all that overnight without seriously ruffling feathers. Console gamers will expect these features implicitly--it's tradition!

A recent game, Assassin's Creed:Brotherhood, came with a one time serial code which could be used to obtain downloadable content. Lots of console players simply didn't bother. The concept of typing in this alpha-numeric hieroglyph, originally designed for commercial office software, was simply alien to them. It goes beyond intelligence or capability, and enters the realm of culture and society. Console gamers simply don't work this way. This move is taking Sony into three shells territory.

Actually, I credit Sony for the computerization of the console. Think about what Sony's done so far.

After all, some PS3 games need to be installed (and it's a real installation, not like the 360's "copy to hard disk" feature. You can't play without installing). And those installers present you a nice EULA that you have to agree to.

This is just furthering the cause - now you have to enter in your key code, just like a PC.

My guess is that Sony's trying to make the PS4 one of their Vaio PCs - hey, PS3 gamers are used to installing games, agreeing to EULAs and entering codes, let's made the next-gen console a PC!

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Phopojijo]

Welcome to what PC gamers have been saying for a longggg time. And guess what? The legit consumers are the ones who will get screwed.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Amouth]

back when it first came out i kinda wanted to buy a PS3 .. but that was only because they where taking a near 200$ loss per console..

i didn't want it or want to use it.. but the idea of forcing them to lose money was appealing.. except i didn't have the extra cash so i was hoping no one would buy them and they could just eat it all.. but alas.. people seem to keep buying them.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Nikker]

Heh we never needed torrents in the 80's.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Nyder]

We also didn't have the internet or torrents in the 80's. Times have changed.

We had BBS systems, copy floppy parties.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Hamsterdan]

I *Loved* how copy protection banged the head out of alignment on C64 drives. The pirated ones didn't damage the drives :)

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Hatta]

1) It kills second-hand sales.

It also kills first hand sales.

2) It enables forced obsolescence (kill the registration servers and you can't play the game anymore)

Which gives me a reason not to buy it.

3) It ensures a one-title, one machine policy. Own a lap-top AND a desktop? You can't play the game on both.

4) Online activation requires a user to be online and transmit data to the publisher. You can use this to collect valuable demographic info (also, since the customer has to be online anyway, you might as well push advertisements down his way to earn even more cash!)

Again, many more reasons not to buy something with DRM.

5) It slowly pushes users to become more accepting of service-based licenses (e.g., subscription gaming) instead of single-sales.

Which also pushes users who do not accept service based licenses away from your product entirely.

6) It reassures investors that the publisher is protecting their property.

While not actually doing anything to protect it. It's just security theater, which is by definition useless.

It's less a way of preventing piracy at this point as it is of maximizing the publisher's income

But it's not a way of maximizing publishers income at all. It's a way of turning imaginary but countable losses (number of illegal copies) into uncountable but real losses (number of copies not sold due to DRM).

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Anonymous Coward]

DRM is no longer only about stopping piracy. It has oh-so-many other advantages.

And remarkably few disadvantages, when implemented well (e.g. Steam).

1) It kills second-hand sales.

True. Of course, I've never sold a game in my life, so this doesn't affect me.

2) It enables forced obsolescence (kill the registration servers and you can't play the game anymore)

Nobody does this, you know. Steam has actually made many old titles easier to play than they previously were. (DRM-free GoG is even better, of course; my point is not that DRM is good, but that it is not wholly evil.)

3) It ensures a one-title, one machine policy. Own a lap-top AND a desktop? You can't play the game on both.

You can with Steam.

4) Online activation requires a user to be online and transmit data to the publisher. You can use this to collect valuable demographic info (also, since the customer has to be online anyway, you might as well push advertisements down his way to earn even more cash!)

The only info Steam has on me is the hardware specifications of my computer, and they asked before taking those. I don't recall seeing any ads, either, unless you count the list of other games they sell.

5) It slowly pushes users to become more accepting of service-based licenses (e.g., subscription gaming) instead of single-sales.

How? I have bought many games through Steam; I have never paid a monthly fee or subscribed to any time-limited service, and nobody has tried to encourage me to do so.

6) It reassures investors that the publisher is protecting their property.

Which is a good thing, right? We want them to carry on giving the publishers money, so they can carry on publishing games for us to pay.

Okay, so Steam is the best-case DRM and there is other shit out there that is worse. Still, the point remains that many of your assertions do not apply to the most widespread DRM systems, and there is no evidence whatsoever that things are getting worse.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually he is right on the money, recently purchased GT 5, and COULD NOT PLAY THE GAME, until I ran a cat 5 cable to my ps3, many many updates for the ps3 and the game, and I could then play my new game.

Without the internet connection, I got a message that the ps3 needed to be updated before I could play the game --- so yeah, you are required to have an internet connection to play new PS3 titles, at least Gran Turismo 5

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Anonymous Coward]

That it might have some minimal effect on slowing illegal copying of games is just an added bonus at this point.

I think that you're underestimating the value of slowing down illegal copying. This long article (paginated, unfortunately) explores piracy on the PC and among other things shows that just slowing down piracy by as little as a couple weeks can greatly increase a publisher's income. An example given in the article is Bioshock, which went uncracked for 13 days. Although there was a PR hit for employing some draconian DRM, commercially the delay was successful. In contrast, if a PC game can pirated either before release or with a day or so, then sales take an especially nasty hit.

As much as I loathe DRM, the article makes it clear that it's completely uneconomical for publishers to allow illegal copying immediately following the release of the game. I think that a good compromise would be something like ransomware. Initially the game would be released with nasty DRM. Once the game hits various sales thresholds then the DRM is rolled back or eliminated entirely. If the sales thresholds are never reached then perhaps the DRM is eliminated anyways after a couple years. In this way publishers could be ensured some profit if the game is good enough and gamers wouldn't have to be treated like criminals. Look at the Humble Indie Games Bundle as an example. They set clear targets and raised so much money that the companies released the source of their games.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[cheekyjohnson]

Which gives me a reason not to buy it.

Yes, but unfortunately, it isn't reason enough for the millions of uncaring drones who don't understand what DRM is to not buy it. They will probably let themselves adapt to this scheme whilst proclaiming that the situation "could be worse."

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

It doesn't help to pull punches here. The only thing that will stop DRM is if people stop buying the good stuff with DRM as well. And yes, there will be good stuff, so don't expect it to be easy.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Sir_Sri]

That might be on a case by case basis. If you can make it unique for each game it raises the barrier to entry for hacking. But all of the serial key generators out there have been cracked with some sort of keygen program by now. How well that will work on the PS3 is hard to say, but it seems likely to be only a temporary barrier to game pirates. Which is probably all they need, a day or two, or tying a serial key to your online account (for online play) would be sufficient to prevent most of the piracy they're worried about. Tying a serial key to an online account has the dual benefit of messing with used game sales. Essentially you can re-sell the single player version, but Sony (or the publishers in this case) would still sell access to the buyer of the used game the online portion of the game.

One of the things Blizzard, Bioware, Paradox, And sort of Steam do is they let you tie your serial keys to your account, (I mean seriously, I'm not going to resell my copy of Warcraft2 at this point), they can offer a service (free redownloading when logged in), save game syncs etc, but they also make it harder to resell/pirate (since your key is logged in your account if they can axe all the keys from a keygen then you either buy the game or don't get to play). I wouldn't be surprised if Sony is creeping towards a 'steam for a console' sort of setup, in a generation or two they can move to a full online model, they still can get value if you want to resell your game (and, to be fair, the online service costs them money, so if you aren't paying but one copy is bounced between 4 or 5 players in its used life that's a lot of cost for them which they aren't getting paid for right now). And it makes piracy harder, since you can know what keys you've given out, what keys you haven't (and what keys were physically stolen potentially). Oh, and you don't want to download the update that enables all of this? It's console, no update, no online connectivity, no new features, and eventually the firmware will be on a disk that you'll have to install for it to run. Overall it's not a bad plan, because it's a little bit less wild west on the console than the PC. You don't even need to make the serial keys something the user types in, it's just there, on the disk and read in automatically.

Oh, and if we find you with any pirated games, we ban your whole account. So if you bought 1000 games but pirate 1, we can lock you out of all of the stuff you *did* pay for. It's certainly more on the 'stick' side of the carrot-stick spectrum, but publicly banning a few thousand (even fictional) people for it might be a strong deterrent.

EA has come out and said a lot of the experience in their games is either online, or DLC, and there's probably more of that in future. As a developer (which I tangentially count myself as), if you don't want to use those account tie in facilities you don't have to, there's always DRM free PC games to make, but it's a strong showing that Sony is committed to making sure people are paying for the games they play on the playstation platform, and they *can* make it actually useful to players if they want too.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Nursie]

Depends on how it's done. The CA certs that are used by the firmware are easy to view and change (with various hacks). On a per-game level maybe not so easy, but likely not impossible. Would take some binary-editing sk!llZ though

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[andymadigan]

The proposed solution was only intended to prevent the server from being impersonated. Of course, the issue raised by the other commenter (controlling the RNG) might be an issue. A serial key could be used in combination with RSA for a fairly secure system. To get around it, you would have to either modify the game software or the hardware, neither of which is as simple as jailbreaking the PS3. The most likely option would be for a group of people to manually crack each game. That would require torrenting 50gb games and burning them to blu-ray. It's still likely that all popular games would be pirated, but then there is no DRM system that would work perfectly.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[MWoody]

Or, people could stop pirating games. That's both equally effective and equally likely.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Speaking of C64, I remember some software that I bought that absolutely REQUIRED the manual. The software wasn't DRMed. but the manual was red paper printed with black ink. Impossible to photocopy, at least back then. Very effective, and fair I thought.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[mcgrew]

The only thing that will stop DRM is if people stop buying the good stuff with DRM as well.

There is no "good stuff" with DRM, the DRM itself makes it crap.

Re:Doesn't This Require an Internet Connection?

[Magius_AR]

Because DRM is no longer only about stopping piracy. It has oh-so-many other advantages. 1) It kills second-hand sales. 2) It enables forced obsolescence (kill the registration servers and you can't play the game anymore) 3) It ensures a one-title, one machine policy. Own a lap-top AND a desktop? You can't play the game on both. 4) Online activation requires a user to be online and transmit data to the publisher. You can use this to collect valuable demographic info (also, since the customer has to be online anyway, you might as well push advertisements down his way to earn even more cash!) 5) It slowly pushes users to become more accepting of service-based licenses (e.g., subscription gaming) instead of single-sales. 6) It reassures investors that the publisher is protecting their property.

The funny (and sad) thing is that most of these concerns about DRM also apply to Steam (and other "digital over hard copy" distribution systems). Yet people will rave against DRM while singing the praises of Steam...

Rentals?

[ryanw]

Lame.. what about game rentals or taking it over to a friends house to play for a few hours? NO way..

Re:Rentals?

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a PC in a console form factor.

Sincerely,
The Last Remaining PC Gamer

Re:Rentals?

[drinkypoo]

Don't worry, this isn't going to prevent that. It will, however, prevent you from playing the game on any console without an internet connection.

Re:Rentals?

[chispito]

Be sure to thank Geohotz for this.

If you cheered his 'liberation' of the PS3 you can't really be unhypocratically mad about Sony's response.

Um, yes I can, because there are plenty of content producers and distributors who don't punish their customers in ANY WAY for buying their products, pirates-be-damned.

Re:Rentals?

[paulsomm]

Be sure to thank Geohotz for this.

If you cheered his 'liberation' of the PS3 you can't really be unhypocratically mad about Sony's response.

geohot didn't enable/endorse/provide piracy. he merely exposed a flaw, and took steps to specifically release and detail it that wouldn't allow you to use it for piracy. he's a hardware hacker in the old-school sense of wanting to learn, pick apart, see how things work and make them do what he wants, just to do it.

the fact others have used his work to further piracy isn't his fault and shouldn't be blamed on him.

Re:Rentals?

[countSudoku()]

Bullocks! He is a hacker hero. Period. Sony is not out to make things easier for consumers, and good people like George undo the shitheadednessness of assholes like Sony. The more you accept draconian DRM, as well as pure root kit nonsense, that Sony forces you to swallow, the more they take your freedom to do with your hardware whatever you want. I no longer buy Sony or Apple products because of bullshit like this. Also, do NOT subscribe me to your newsletter as you are consumer unfriendly, a possible DRM sympathizer, and as AC put it a "noncompoop."

Re:Rentals?

[TavisJohn]

Or the used game market? Not going to be able to sell that game you finished and never want to play again.

Re:Rentals?

[Dishevel]

Right. No difference there that I can see.

Re:Rentals?

[synthesizerpatel]

I concur, Sandra Bullocks!!

Re:Rentals?

[Nadaka]

That is just an added bonus. Why allow someone to own a physical object when you can license its use to them instead. Every resale of a physical object is the loss of a first hand sale at full price. Personal ownership is a threat to corporate profit. Imagine the chaos if people had the same rights as corporations?

Re:Rentals?

[pcolaman]

I have a feeling it's partially about piracy, and partially about the used game market. They want a bigger piece of the pie, so they want to make it much harder or impossible for gamers to trade in games and buy used games.

Re:Rentals?

[Svartalf]

They don't like game rentals to begin with. Cuts into sales for them and their affiliated studios and publishers.

It should be observed, though, that if they're going to that...what difference is there other than maybe some cost savings on the unit, between a PS3 and an HTPC?

They honestly don't really want to go where they're going with all of this. It's not a pretty place for someone in the console business.

Re:Rentals?

[Chowderbags]

They probably think that if they kill the rental market, people will have to buy games. And with no used games market, they don't even have to lower the prices of old games that much. Seems like the perfect strategy to milk the market, so long as you don't stop to think about how much this would piss off potential customers, who would go elsewhere with their dollars. (but wait, call everyone pirates and win anyway?)

Re:Rentals?

[Cwix]

I do take games to others houses.
Sometimes I don't play online, in fact a lot of games I much prefer the single player to listening to 13 year olds yammer on about something retarded.
I do have friends.

Troll much?

Re:Rentals?

[Cwix]

Its fine if the the dog bit the guy who poked him. Its not fine if the dog bites the hand that feed it, the paying consumer.

Re:Rentals?

[Stenchwarrior]

AHAHAHA where are my mod points!? +5 Funny

Re:Rentals?

[mfaine]

Be sure to thank Geohotz for this.

If you cheered his 'liberation' of the PS3 you can't really be unhypocratically mad about Sony's response.

Damn it. First I will do no harm! See, you are wrong.

Re:Rentals?

[ShadoHawk]

Get a PC in a console form factor.

Sincerely,
The Last Remaining PC Gamer

You are not the last of us!
We at FITES http://www.fites.net/ are having a BYOC end of February. (Feb 25-27th)
Pittco http://www.pittco.org/ is the weekend after. (March 4-6th)
PAX East http://www.paxsite.com/paxeast/index.php (March 11-13th)
The GXL http://www.thegxl.com/ (May 6-8th)
Digital Overload http://digital-overload.com/ (May 27-29th)

All events are 200 people or more and that's just North Eastern Region.

Re:Rentals?

[Kijori]

I'm not going to claim that this was his fault. If Sony do decide to implement serial keys for their games it will be a dark day for console gaming and it will have been their decision.

That said, something like this was absolutely foreseeable when he decided to publish his work. Anyone seeing the description - a break in the PS3's security that couldn't be fixed - knew instantly that they weren't going to leave it alone and not respond, and that anything they did to try to remove the vulnerability would be more invasive and more annoying and more consumer unfriendly.
You say he's a "hacker hero". Maybe he's a hero among hackers, but hackers make up only a very, very small portion of PS3 users and are the only ones - well, other than pirates - who will get any advantage from this hack. Average users won't get any advantage at all. They won't want to root their PS3 or install pirated games; they just want to buy a game at the store and use it like they always did. It was absolutely foreseeable when he released this that it was going to inconvenience those people. So while, as I said, I don't think he's to blame, I do think it was a bit of a dick move to play to the hacker crowd without thinking about the inconvenience and irritation that would be the inevitable result for average gamers. I've seen other hackers say "I've cracked the system, I've broken all the security, and I'll find a way to make homebrew possible - but I'm not going to put the hack itself on the internet because people will use it to pirate and it'll end up hurting the users". That would have been a much more decent thing to do.

Re:Rentals?

[metamatic]

That said, something like this was absolutely foreseeable when he decided to publish his work.

Someone publishing a crack for the PS3 was absolutely forseeable once Sony got rid of OtherOS. It might have been a mod chip or plug-in hack rather than just software, but someone was going to find a way to crack the security to put back what Sony took away.

Re:Rentals?

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

Bullocks! He is a hacker hero.

Actually, I think I disagree. It's hackers like these which actually exacerbate the DRM problem. Every person who didn't want Sony's DRM, but bought a PS3 anyway, is simply encouraging Sony, and funding their rein of terror. Geohotz may have meant well, but by accommodating such spineless Sony customers, he contributes to making the situation worse, with repercussions that spread beyond PS3 owners. I genuinely think that it would be better if PS3 customers were left in the cages they walked into, especially for the people themselves. They need to acquire the strength to say "no".

Re:Rentals?

[man_the_king]

Someone publishing a crack for the PS3 was absolutely forseeable once Sony got rid of OtherOS. It might have been a mod chip or plug-in hack rather than just software, but someone was going to find a way to crack the security to put back what Sony took away.

VERY CONVENIENT how everyone forgets that Geohotz's first hack (which abused the OtherOS feature to perform its exploit) WAS THE REASON that Sony took OtherOS away in the first place - http://www.answers.com/topic/george-hotz#Hacking_the_PlayStation_3

Specifically the lines "On January 26, 2010, Hotz released the exploit to the public. It requires the OtherOS function of the machine, and consists of a Linux kernel module and gaining control of the machine's hypervisor via bus glitching.[22] Hotz wrote that "Sony may have difficulty patching the exploit". On March 28, 2010, Sony has responded by announcing to release a PlayStation 3 firmware update that removes the OtherOS feature"

Very convenient for people who just want to lambast Sony and glorify Geohotz, REGARDLESS OF THE ACTUAL EVENT CHRONOLOGY.

Re:Rentals?

[Cwix]

Ok, why reply that to me? My post hasn't even been modded.

Re:Rentals?

[Duradin]

This *is* /., cause and effect don't apply when ranting about Apple and Sony. In fact time goes all wibbly-wobbly for those companies.

Re:Rentals?

[metamatic]

VERY CONVENIENT everyone forgets that the reason people wanted to break the hypervisor was that Sony locked down Linux on PS3 so it didn't have access to the graphics hardware.

Re:Rentals?

[man_the_king]

I wasn't replying specifically to you - sorry about that. Just wasn't sure where to put this observation that the Mods here are mods only in name, with a complete lack of impartiality.

Re:Rentals?

[man_the_king]

It was more in relation some of the posts in this series which were marked Insightful. In any level-headed comments thread, the ranting tone would have been modded troll.

Here's an example below - painting Geohotz as some sort of messiah and Sony as the anti-Christ fascist - this was modded Insightful, and this pattern is repeated throughout the entire page:

Bullocks! He is a hacker hero. Period. Sony is not out to make things easier for consumers, and good people like George undo the shitheadednessness of assholes like Sony. The more you accept draconian DRM, as well as pure root kit nonsense, that Sony forces you to swallow, the more they take your freedom to do with your hardware whatever you want. I no longer buy Sony or Apple products because of bullshit like this. Also, do NOT subscribe me to your newsletter as you are consumer unfriendly, a possible DRM sympathizer, and as AC put it a "noncompoop."

Re:Rentals?

[iainl]

Exactly. If he hadn't overcooked the burgers, Sony wouldn't have to punch him in the belly. Damn that Geohotz.

Ever think you're accepting a condition you shouldn't?

Re:Rentals?

[Duradin]

Never bought a PS3 and if I did I'd be buying a games console and not something to hack into a linux computer. If I wanted a linux computer there are much better options than a game console.

Once Lord and Savior Geohotz used OtherOS in his first big crack it was inevitable Sony was going to disable it.

Re:Rentals?

[Xest]

"Also, do NOT subscribe me to your newsletter as you are consumer unfriendly, a possible DRM sympathizer"

Yes, sadly it's been a growing trend over the years though.

Ten years ago people would not have been happy with a mere CD key check that didn't check online but merely ran against an algorithm, people hated DRM that merely checked the right CD was in the drive. People really hated this kind of simple thing back then.

Nowadays people are even defending intrusive DRM- try criticising Steam and you'll get an army of Valve fanboys pounce on you with arguments such as "But it let's you install from anywhere!", "But it means you don't need a CD in the drive!" and that kind of thing completely ignoring the fact I could do these things just fine in the past without Steam too.

It's sad, but many gamers not only accept, but defend DRM sometimes now, they have actually swallowed the bullshit idea that it's somehow there for their own good, that it brings them benefits.

Still, it's nice to see a comment like yours get modded up, because at least it means there are still some people out there who despise DRM in whatever form it comes, and don't just criticise it when it's in a product they don't like whilst ignoring it in ones they do (e.g. attacking EA's DRM whilst defending Valve's) or even go as far as defending it in general with illogical arguments because they've swallowed the equally illogical sales pitch for it.

Real Old School

[RazzleFrog]

"Enter the 5th word from page 35 of the instruction manual." Or maybe like SimCity which had the list of codes that couldn't be photocopied.

Re:Real Old School

[Anonymous Coward]

I liked the combination wheels. Monkey Island had 3 different sized circles on top of each other, rotate each one to replicate the picture on the screen.

Test Drive 3 had something similar as well....

Re:Real Old School

[Anonymous Coward]

Or maybe like SimCity which had the list of codes that couldn't be photocopied.

I remember that. Didn't stop my dad, though; he copied the entire thing by hand, symbols and all, the entire list. Was one hell of a lot easier to read, at that.

Re:Real Old School

[RazzleFrog]

Who even owned scanners at the time, though? I think the only printer I even owned back then was a daisy wheel.

Re:Real Old School

[rograndom]

I had one friend that messed with the brightness/contrast controls on a photocopier for an entire afternoon and managed to get a readable copy out of the Simcity code list. The copy also copied very well I remember.

Re:Real Old School

[khellendros1984]

That was Monkey Island 2.

Re:Real Old School

[hitmark]

Odd, i do not recall seeing a simcity version that required a code.

Re:Real Old School

[jank1887]

MI 2 had the mix-n-mojo code wheel. those were easy. you just photocopied each aligned option. turned a code-wheel into a 20 page pile of paper, but it worked. or so I heard... The dark red sheets with black text, though. those were a bitch. some had really esoteric characters on them. and not all photocopiers could be tweaked to get them right.

Re:Real Old School

[Megane]

Anything to make people actually keep the instructions with the games. I'm tired of all the naked games at used game shops.

Re:Real Old School

[Mashiki]

I don't either. However I do remember Starcontrol 2 having a gigantic ass map that was colour coded and you had to use sector finding and input the name of the star. I think it took me all of 2-3 hours one afternoon to figure out a way around it.

Re:Real Old School

[Firehed]

That worked great before Google existed. /queue DMCA takedown notice

Re:Real Old School

[Dunbal]

Starflight...

Re:Real Old School

[Quirkz]

On the SSI games (Pools of Radiance, etc.) I had an easier answer. I looked at the underside of the wheel once, noticed that the letter "e" was disproportionately represented, and then just relaunched the game and guessed "e" until it let me in. It was faster to do this by guessing than to use the wheel, and it worked even better in later years when I lost the darn thing.

Re:Real Old School

[Carrot007]

> MI 2 had the mix-n-mojo code wheel. those were easy. you just photocopied each aligned option. turned a code-wheel into a 20 page pile of paper, but it worked. or so I heard...

Or you just seperated the wheel and copied each bit and made your own wheel. Which worked fine after cutting out the slots. What is wrong with you, 20 pages, do you hate trees?

Re:Real Old School

[UnknownSoldier]

> Or maybe like SimCity which had the list of codes that couldn't be photocopied.

I just cracked the dam thing and displayed my own "Kracked by The ..." message instead. :-)

Of course my older tech friend got the clever idea of just feeding successive copies through a fax machine. lol.

FAYUL.

Re:Real Old School

[UnknownSoldier]

It was the very _first_ version that did.

Now get off ma lawn ! ;-)

Re:Real Old School

[Nyder]

Who even owned scanners at the time, though? I think the only printer I even owned back then was a daisy wheel.

Only took 1 person with a scanner to get it scanned then share it with friends, who would share it with friends. And it would get on the BBS boards.

Re:Real Old School

[Nyder]

Who even owned scanners at the time, though? I think the only printer I even owned back then was a daisy wheel.

Only took 1 person with a scanner to get it scanned then share it with friends, who would share it with friends. And it would get on the BBS boards.

sheesh, BBS boards. I suck.

Re:Real Old School

[QuantumBeep]

FAYUL.

If people start saying that, I'm gonna know whose ass to kick.

Re:Real Old School

[Lord_Breetai]

If people start saying that, I'm gonna know whose ass to kick.

Don't be so sure.

This only works for multiplayer

[cforciea]

I would assume this has the exact same problem as serial key DRMing schemes on the PC: it only works for multiplayer. For single player games, you'll just get a cracked version of the game that doesn't require serial key validation, like we've been doing on the PC for more than a decade.

Keygens for Playstation?

[bchickens]

So now were going to be using keygens on Playstation games, wonderful! It seems that consoles have become redundant, to be honest they should just push all the controllers to a home PC system and quit charging people for meager upgrades everytime they come out with a new console.

Re:Keygens for Playstation?

[currently_awake]

Or you could burn the key into the game disk, though that would cost more. Or you can have a console serial number and have the game register online during the install procedure (though that would require internet, bad for single player). Or you can have an online apps store, with games locked to the console. Regardless of method it's likely to be bad for selling games or going to a friends house to play.

Re:Keygens for Playstation?

[RichiH]

> So now were going to be using keygens on Playstation games

man 1 uuidgen
online verification.

Why is this even here??

[Anonymous Coward]

When did rumors perpetuated by 4chan become news?? Someone posted this on 4chan a couple of days ago. Then it showed up on PS3-Sense and now it's on slashdot.

Lots of trolling going on....

Re:Why is this even here??

[adolf]

In the future, after conventional media and the concept of a reporter both die of attrition (along with any remaining shreds of journalistic integrity), all "news" will be bloggers blogging about rumors found on blogs. And 4chan.

This article is merely an indication that we're still moving along the path to that eventuality.

Oh this is going to be popular...

[Samuraid]

I don't know anyone who regularly plugs a USB keyboard into their console for any reason. Likewise, "typing" out a long number of string of characters using a controller seems exceptionally cumbersome. Also, having a serial code remains yet another way Sony can tie a specific game license to a specific console. Really, I don't see any way this could be convenient nor benefit gamers.

Re:Oh this is going to be popular...

[vikisonline]

Umm what makes you think any of this is to benefit the gamer? If they don't tie it down to a specific console and make it so its like old half life/ counterstrike was (only one instance of a cd key can play online at a time) or which is the same thing steam is doing now it could be fine. Then if you pass it to someone you trust with the key they can play it too. But if you give it out on the internet then it will be unplayable because you will never know when someone is on. Now the only question is whether sony can be trusted to create such an old school implementation.

Re:Oh this is going to be popular...

[mike260]

PS3 games are already spectacularly inconvenient, often requiring 30 minutes or more of downloading, patching, installing and firmware-updating before letting me actually play the game I just bought. Having to type in a serial via gamepad would be the least of it.

Re:Oh this is going to be popular...

[davidbrit2]

Or the better part of a day downloading updates, for people like me out in the sticks with coal-powered internet. It's to the point where I've resigned myself to just download the updates at work, throw 'em on a flash drive, and install when I get home, but you can't do that with the game-specific updates.

I want to like the PS3, but Sony makes it so damned hard sometimes. And I'm sure with all these massive security holes being exposed (which I'm not at all opposed to in principal, mind you), I'm sure the updates will just start coming even faster. Hooray.

Re:Oh this is going to be popular...

[gorzek]

Are these game patches adding new content or just fixing bugs that should've been caught before release? I thought one of the biggest selling points of consoles was "no patches!" Adding features and content is one thing--that's a value-add for people with Internet connections. But if there are serious bugs at release time, what's the point of even buying a console? You can get the same "experience" on a PC.

When consoles become indistinguishable from PCs not just in terms of capability but complexity of operation, will people keep buying them?

Re:Oh this is going to be popular...

[Schadrach]

Some of both, although outside DLC, I don't usually have big download times on my PS3 games, but I've got 3 meg cable. =/

Now some DLC can be pretty big, although what really ticks me off is DLC that *isn't*, because that usually means it was already on disc and just needed an unlock.

Most of my PS3 games have run just fine without any patches either (I've played most of them while running a PSJB dongle, which aren't compatible with game updates) -- I think the worst bug seen was my nephew managed to bug the Darth Vader fight in Force Unleashed 2 such as to require him to kill himself and restart the fight.

Re:Oh this is going to be popular...

[saramakos]

Even better when AFTER doing all that, the game crashes at the first save and then never works again.... I am looking at you Red Dead Redemption Undead Nightmare. After getting if for Christmas I have still never successfully played the damn game :/

I bought the disk copy to save space on my limited HDD... I feel like an idiot now!

Re:Oh this is going to be popular...

[Gizzmonic]

Yeah, consoles are really catching up to PCs in terms of crappy updates.

The worst thing about the PS3's stuff is the store. My first PS3 overheated and I had 100 or so songs in Rock Band. Well apparently Sony has never heard of 'batch download'-I had to manually queue up each song, with a limit of about 20 per go. And when the songs downloaded they wouldn't automatically install...I actually had to click on each one to install it! If I would have known that when I bought the PS3, I probably would have gotten a 360 instead. This is something that could easily be fixed with a firmware update, but it sounds like they're more focused on hassling customers instead.

That admits a lot

[sethstorm]

Sounds like they're treating it sort of like how PC's are treated with respect to games.

So much for their hypervisor and kill-off of OtherOS.

I really wish people would tell Sony to fuck off.

[seeker_1us]

I stopped buying their stuff after the rootkit thing. By buying their stuff, people are only supporting the abuse that Sony seems to feel entitled to heap on its loyal customers.

On A Side Note if P==NP

[medv4380]

If the crazy guy yesterday is correct (Probably not but IF) then will any kind of DRM really work?

Re:On A Side Note if P==NP

[icebraining]

DRM is a logical impossibility regardless of such possibilities. The only thing it can already do is throw a couple roadblocks to delay the crackers - it can't actually protect the content.

Re:On A Side Note if P==NP

[MickyTheIdiot]

Great logic. Problem is that the Peter Principle has promotes every simpleton who can't use login into a place of power.

Do I sound frustrated? It's because I am. The world, especially the corporate world, gets more and more illogical every day.

Re:On A Side Note if P==NP

[walshy007]

Well nothing is safe if you throw enough resources at it, even drm in silicon can generally be worked around by reverse engineering it all and reimplementing in your own sans drm functionality

It's kind of like protecting your house/yourself from thieves or vandalls. Hell you could have a nuclear bunker, people will still be able to gain access with sufficient resources. But unless you are a very high value target, it won't be worth it.

So the better the drm the more valuable breaking it has to be to justify it.

it's like sony wants the x-box to win

[alen]

first kinect outsells the Move by 2 to 1 or more. now they have this plan to drive even more people to Microsoft. i have both and only game on my x-box. i was actually going to buy a PS3 game yesterday, but decided against it at the last minute. crazy systems like this will mean i'll just stick to my x-box

why would anyone put up with this?

Re:it's like sony wants the x-box to win

[StikyPad]

Ah yes, because the 360 is *so* much more open than the PS3. Oh wait, it's not. There is no jailbreak for the 360, only a DVD firmware mod to play "backups" (for which they've banned thousands of consoles, if not more). There was never an OtherOS for the 360. There's no official support for 3rd party hard drive installation. It only plays MS-approved media formats. And if all that weren't enough, they also charge a FEE for online play, Netflix access, and other "value added" services that don't cost them a penny. Their multiplayer is P2P by the way, which means they're charging you to use your own bandwidth.

I'm not blowing Sony's trumpet by any means, but the idea that the 360 is somehow more consumer friendly is absurd.

Re:it's like sony wants the x-box to win

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

I would argue that MS (at least the X-Box division) is a bit more consumer friendly in that they never advertised an OtherOS feature or backwards compatibility with the original X-Box. Sony touted those features and removed them (remotely in the former and on a new edition in the latter). I have neither X-Box 360 nor PS3 but it seems to be that Microsoft cheated the customer less than Sony did.

Re:it's like sony wants the x-box to win

[jank1887]

arguably, they're charging you for the matchmaking service. you're (they're) just dumb enough to pay for it.

Re:it's like sony wants the x-box to win

[StikyPad]

And taking advantage of dumb consumers is friendly how exactly? There are similar services for the PC that are completely free (GameSpy, Blizzard Net) that get by on advertising. MS not only charges money for it, but disallows competing networks AND still has advertising. Sorry, there's really no way to spin Live fees as anything other than anti-consumer.

Re:it's like sony wants the x-box to win

[rgviza]

1. RROD
2. Sony hasn't implemented anything yet. Games you buy right now don't have this thing.

I only get xbox only titles for xbox. I'm not buying another xbox and the one I have now is out of warranty, the refurbished one I got when my first one died. They're still dying...

Re:it's like sony wants the x-box to win

[thrash242]

I can do anecdotal evidence too!

I have turned my 360 on about 2-3 times after I bought my PS3 which was at least a year ago and since then it's gotten a fine layer of dust from disuse. In fact, I sold all but 2 or 3 of my Xbox games and am strongly considering selling them all plus the console itself. My PS3 sees use virtually every day. I admit to not being your typical American gamer, (I got bored of FPSes about 10 years ago) but IMO, the PS3 and its games are better in virtually every way, and having to enter serial codes (if this is true) won't affect me in the least, since I almost never buy anything used if it's available new.

I'm strongly anti-piracy (no, I have no vested interest--I just have something called ethics), and if this helps stop piracy on the PS3, I'm okay with it.

Re:it's like sony wants the x-box to win

[Malice9610]

Its people like you touting " Ethics " that are propping up this broken anti consumer business model.

where are the Ethics, when a company announces a feature, sells millions of units because of this feature, and then removes the feature remotely via patch. How is that in any way Ethical ( PS3 OtherOS option ring a bell here ) if your " ethics " hold true, Sony should have bought back every console that users bought solely for the " other OS " option, that would have been the Ethical thing to do.

Or where is the ethics when MS LifeBans your Xbox, even with a valid Live account, for one of your snot nosed little bastard childrens friends trying to go on live with a pirated game copy?

Licensing, is a model designed by rich assholes, to ensure they get richer, at the expense of the cash spending consumer.

When i pay money for any object, that object becomes mine, I traded my currency for a product, that product just became mine, and i can use and abuse it in any way i see fit, as it is MY property now. With licensing, i am in essence RENTING whatever it is i paid currency for. Since Sony OWNS my money when i buy a PS3, that means i OWN my PS3, and can do whatever i would like to do with it, including hack it to play Atari games, cook me breakfast, or spam emails out.

Its people like you, who are selling our entire society into corporate slavery. to say the wool is pulled over your eyes is putting it mildly considering the sheep mentality you have displayed with that comment, i would say your just about right for a shearing.

Re:it's like sony wants the x-box to win

[thrash242]

I was talking about piracy, which your long, rambling, straw-man conspiracy theory-laden rant didn't address.

The creators of games, movies, music, books, etc deserve to be compensated for their work and investment. People who leech off of someone else's work without their permission and without compensating them for it are without ethics.

Since you seem to like straw-man arguments and ranting against exaggerated evils in your mind, let me respond in kind. People like you have a disgusting sense of entitlement where you think you're entitled to the work of others for free. You're leeches on both people who create things, and people who legitimately buy them, because without those people buying the products, they would cease to exist for the most part. If it wasn't for people like me, leeches like you would have nothing to pirate. You have this anti-corporate mentality, yet without corporations, all the things you think you're entitled to would disappear. I don't know if you actually fit into what I'm ranting against, but you didn't care, so why should I? Wheeee!

There would still be independent games made by people for fun, but the games that people actually pirate--modern, popular, big-budget games with voice-acting, fancy graphics, sound design, and all that, will cease to exist because no one will spend tens of millions of dollars to make them.

That was fun. I see why people like you do that all the time. It's fun to rant about imaginary evils and then call people who are so obviously dumber than you (ie: disagree) sheep.

Re:it's like sony wants the x-box to win

[Travelsonic]

IMO you certainly have room to talk when it comes to logical arguments. ~_~

There would still be independent games made by people for fun, but the games that people actually pirate--modern, popular, big-budget games with voice-acting, fancy graphics, sound design, and all that, will cease to exist because no one will spend tens of millions of dollars to make them.

This claim has been made for not years, but decades, and yet it hasn't come true, the industry has made it past hurdles that *could* have killed it, and will continue to do so, people will find ways to make money off their work. How do you honestly believe piracy will kill the industry in the way you speak when said claims have yet to come true?

And I must also contest your overall attitude - the post you replied to didn't once talk about piracy, but rather the ability to control and "own" the hardware/software bought, which in my opinion is legitimate. Yes, he seems entitled, and I may too, but fuck it, short of *actually* breaking the law, as opposed to doing what people THINK is breaking the law, I should IMO have control over the stuff I buy, I should have the ability to return defective software disks, etc without hassle, I shouldsn't have to be treated like a criminal. And if that makes me pro-piracy, well, your reading comprehension is far from my problem.

Re:it's like sony wants the x-box to win

[bmatt17]

As much as Sony is really starting to piss me off, I still do 90% of my gaming on the PS3. Reason, I refuse to give Microsoft money for Live, and the fact that I'm now on my 5th 360 due to their crappy hardware. Between blu-ray, netflix and gaming on the PS3 it easily sees the most use at my house. I swear Sony is doing everything in their power to make me jump ship though.

Re:console developers are idiots

[alen]

so how do you exactly play Dance Central without Kinect? press the buttons on the controller to move? the fun is moving your body and trying to learn the moves.

same with the music games. few weeks ago i found a $15 drum set on sale and bought rock band, guitar hero and some track packs. total cost around $50. how would i play the music games without the instrument add ons? the whole fun factor is to replicate the air guitar/drums that people play when listening to music

Keep trying, Sony

[Stiletto]

This will have the exact same effect on copying as... well... as every scheme the industry has concocted to try to stop copying.

don't buy consoles

[Dan667]

you should not have to put up with something like this.

Re:don't buy consoles

[alen]

x-box is simple

buy game, play it. it just works. and tons of older and on sale games you can buy for cheap. and you can stream netflix on it and play DVD's. much better than buying a $300 to $400 graphics card that sounds like a jet engine and sucks up electricity. and doing it all over again in 2 years and having to buy a new computer as well because the slots are now different or something else changed.

Re:don't buy consoles

[WeatherServo9]

much better than buying a $300 to $400 graphics card that sounds like a jet engine and sucks up electricity.

I like my Xbox 360, but to be fair it also sounds like a jet engine and sucks up electricity.

Re:don't buy consoles

[Shados]

My video card is quiet, cost me 110$ 3 years ago and play most games on high settings, including garbage console ports. I do have most consoles of this generation (both portable and not), and i like them better than PC for gaming, but for other reasons. This isn't 2002 anymore. You don't need a powerful PC to game, and upgrades are often unnecessary. (Heck, it looks like my Nintendo DS will have to be upgraded more frequently than my computer to get all the bells and whistles, between the DSi for the store and now the 3DS for newer games)

Re:don't buy consoles

[alen]

i have the new slim from the kinect bundle along with the PS3 slim

didn't buy the consoles new due to global warming already making it nice and warm in my home

Re:don't buy consoles

[Sinistar2k]

Don't buy PCs either.

Re:don't buy consoles

[ufpdom]

Like others have stated. PC Gaming hardware is anywhere from $500 on up. Every couple of years you do have to do some type of video card or other hardware upgrade. So this is where IMHO Console is King. Once the Snake Pliskin EMP Zaps all the DLC Servers in the world of lets say Nintendo. You lose all the wiiware you can DL and play. But fear not! I'll whip out my trust NES/SNES and bust it on A/V and play away. Now while we're lucky that we have PC Emulation to carry older titles to newer OS/Hardware when was the last time anyone here whipped out their 5 1/4 Floppy of Kings Quest or 3.5" discs of Leisure Suit Larry 3 to play on a PC. Eventually w/o some type of Emulation on the PC we can't carry some pieces of software on. But again I can whipe out a 25 year old console thats never been repair and it still works. While I do my fair amount of PC Gaming which cant be done on a console. I do prefer console as well. I smell large amounts of trolling on this news story. The only games that I can understandably require a online key or a RSA Keypuck are online RPGS (WoW, Final Fantasy). Only required online games would require such a key. To get most PS3 games to require an online constant key would be friggin suicide. Tales of Valkyria 2, Disgea 3, etc. etc. offline RPGS. If Sony tries to pull this off basically its going to push more and more people to the 360 and other competing formats. Sony screwed up and thats that. Their DRM/security team who designed the schema for the PS3 should be fired and thats that. Its game over. Time for a PS4 and learn to do it right this time. The xbox1 was hackable w/o a doubt and M$ learned their lesson quite well from their hodge-podge assembly of the Xbox1. Granted the 360 is slightly hackable but it isnt as Succeptable to hacks as the PS3. I find it amazing that GeoHotz was able to do this that many people farming PCs where trying to do cracking the master key for the xbox1.

Re:And ......

[khr]

This move will utterly kill the platform.

Well, that's one way to cut down on piracy.

And here are the keys...

[Maltheus]

Agu4shoh dae2oCha VieGhoh2 Gairoh5a
iak6Ou7i Wu0ATeit IrohT5ee Fu2neif8
Woh5OoWo Zoh7zah0 Jong1tav OB1oliuy
Aev2az4f il9phieZ AeM0uXah ESheika3

You're welcome!

Re:And here are the keys...

[Apothem]

Oh god it's gonna turn into another AACS key.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controversy

Re:And here are the keys...

[HoppQ]

Agu4shoh dae2oCha VieGhoh2 Gairoh5a
iak6Ou7i Wu0ATeit IrohT5ee Fu2neif8
Woh5OoWo Zoh7zah0 Jong1tav OB1oliuy
Aev2az4f il9phieZ AeM0uXah ESheika3

For a moment I thought it was an invocation to summon an Old One or something...

Re:Keygen

[HarrySquatter]

How does one "suffer" by having to enter in a keycode? It takes all of 5 seconds.

Re:Keygen

[GrumblyStuff]

If the game I bought uses a key that someone else created (via keygen) and I can't play it, I've suffered to the tune of about $60. Good luck returning disc, too.

Re:OMG Now we will!

[wilgibson]

The wired XBox 360 controller already is 100% compatible with Windows (imagine that!) and is probably the best gaming pad on the market for the PC.

Wouldn't this be more effective?

[Schadrach]

Have the PSN multiplayer code check for LV2 peek/poke syscall support, if it's found, they are using a JB dongle (or CFW modded for easier piracy) and backup manager to play (and are almost certainly pirates), so blacklist the PS3 from playing games multiplayer. This removes the people using a JB dongle.

Have the PSN multiplayer code check some hash value of the EBOOT and the FW, and compare to known values. If the FW hash doesn't match, the user is running a CFW such as geohot's that isn't specifically made to make piracy easy (backup managers won't run on these because LV2 syscalls aren't modified). I don't know if he genuinely needs to be punished outright (he might be one of those who is actually only interested in "legitimate" homebrew if the EBOOT checks out). If the EBOOT hash doesn't match up, however, then he's using a cracked and resigned game. Prevent access to multiplayer by the game (possibly ban that PS3 from multiplayer entirely, since he may be a pirate but it's slightly less likely since this is the "hard" way to do it compared to using a BM).

Either way, do not ban access to the PSN Store, since that's the most likely way you might still make money from a compromised console (DLC and the like).

Re:Wouldn't this be more effective?

[Schadrach]

OK, so now you're using a root kit that intercepts the peek/poke syscalls but only when Sony attempts to call them (normal user land software doesn't ever use these as they're not normally available, the mere fact that they function to a user land app indicates a compromised console altered specifically to make piracy as easy as possible), but not when any homebrew application does? Are you maintaining a whitelist of "valid" homebrew and pretending Sony can't impersonate it?

There's a PSN connectivity stub in the FW itself (or GameOS, I forget which) (there has to be to avoid needing to repatch every game every FW version or PSN update). Games call it to get connected to PSN in the first place. So now you've got to patch the FW to make the hash check return the "real" value for the FW check, and to reference a DB you are maintaining that includes the hash value every PS3 game released.

They're simply not that good at hacking the FW yet, it wouldn't be too hard to have a new FW ready at hand for when it finally is hacked and released that changes and relocates the hash function. This would be sufficient to hold them back at least until better FW hacking tools get developed.

Side question: Is there any hash function that given a hash value and a salt it is difficult to compute the new hash had the original data been salted? If so, include a random salt value being transmitted at PSN connection -- make it a long enough salt and it becomes unfeasible to store every possible permutation of GameID/hash/salt triplets. Sony has a copy of all valid EBOOTs ad FW, so they can simply calculate it if they manage to not have the storage for such a thing themselves.

Re:Keygen

[Nemesisghost]

Unless you like dragging your PS3 around with you, then you have to buy a new copy every time you want to play it on a PS3 that is not your own. And before people say that nobody does that, I got my brother a PS3 for his house knowing that I could bring my PS3 games and play them at his house.

Re:And ......

[countSudoku()]

Damn good points. Also, think of this; Sony is spending millions of dollars on securing their system, rather than improving the gaming experience on it. They are trying to build a wall around a garden that is old, uninteresting, and now outgrowing the gardener's tiny constraints. Fuck 'em. Freedom of hardware is for the consumer and Sony would only like to piss on that very freedom. You buy the hardware, but Sony/Apple tells you what you can and can't do with it? That's not consumer friendly, that's being a Software Nazi. I call shenanigans!!1!

Re:Keygen

[0123456]

How does one "suffer" by having to enter in a keycode? It takes all of 5 seconds.

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha... I don't remember which it was, but one game took me the best part of two days to install because the stupid sods used both B and 8 in the key (and similar easily-confused characters) and in the font they used they were almost identical. I must have entered a hundred different variations on the key until I found a post on the Internet explaining exactly how to work out which characters were which.

So yes, one has "suffered" from having to enter a stupid CD key to play a game that I've paid for.

Since you know...

[JustAnotherIdiot]

...serial keys work OH SO WELL on the PC, no one ever finds a way to crack them...OH WAIT.

Re:Keygen

[Ephemeriis]

How does one "suffer" by having to enter in a keycode? It takes all of 5 seconds.

Right now console games are fairly portable. You can bring the disc over to a friend's house and play on their console. Or you can sell the game to somebody else. Or rent it somewhere. This is all possible because the DRM makes sure it's a legitimate disc - but not necessarily that it is unique.

If we're going to start doing keycodes on discs, they're going to become a hell of a lot less portable.

Once you've authenticated that keycode against your console, or your online account, or whatever you won't be able to haul the disc over to a friend's house, or sell it, or rent it.

Re:Keygen

[Kell Bengal]

This happened to me with an EA game I bought cheap in a discount bin. Fortunately, EA was actually cool about it and after a few emails explaining the problem they gave me a replacement CD key. This surprised me a great deal because I have a low opinion of EA in general. Sometimes they will surprise you.

Useless...

[Trintech]

PS3 hackers have already decrypted game executables and modified them with custom values. Its not gonna be much harder for them to find these "internet key check" calls and jump over them. Given Sony' previous record though, they will probably do something stupid like implement this internet serial key checking function as a syscall which the hackers will just patch over to always return "the key is valid" leaving legitimate game owners the only ones who will have to deal with this crap.

Re:Keygen

[smbarbour]

Pray you never want to buy a Myst game for your PS3... They'd probably do something really asinine like having to enter the keycode using the D'ni alphabet and numbers.

This would be an utterly desperate move

[mattbee]

I don't believe they'd ever do it. They can keep pushing firmware updates, blocking PSN accounts, detecting new modifications - just settle into the pattern like Microsoft have done! But to have to enter a long code for every PS3 game I buy? Is that before the long installation, followed by mandatory download and patch? Or after? And is that a one-time code meaning the same game can't be installed on a second PS3; would that be stomping on the used market at the same time? The PS3 is already the most expensive & lease pleasant to use console, they *really* can't afford to make the experience any worse.

Dear Sony...

[Rinnon]

In any market, it is always advisable to be aware of what your competition is doing so that you can make sure you are offering a superior, or at least non-inferior, experience. Allowing your competition to stay leaps and bounds ahead of you in any market is a sure fire way to flush your business down the toilet! So who is your competition? Microsoft, and PIRACY. Yes, that's right, Piracy is a competitor, and don't you ever think otherwise. It's a competing distribution method that is cheaper and in some ways more convenient. Hope you have some great plans up your sleeve to prove that buying games is the most hassle free way to go; That buying games gets you a BETTER product!

Let's take a look at what the you and your competition are up to shall we... oh, it looks like none of you require a constant Internet connection to play games, so you're all on the same page there. Wait, what? You WANT to introduce that? Won't that put you in a WORSE position than your competitors on the level of convenience offered by your product? What if people have flaky Internet, or god forbid, NO Internet! Fuck them you say? Oh, well, okay. I'm going to have to deduct you a few points for that one.

Let's see... no one has CD key's either, so that's nice... wait, WHAT again!? You actually WANT to introduce these!? What if people lose their keys, or want to rent video games before buying? Fuck them you say? Welllll okay, it's YOUR business Sony. Of course, I'm going to have to deduct more points yet again...

You know Sony, you're not really selling me on why I want to buy from you here. What? Fuck me you say? You know, I'll remember that.

Make the DRM a game

[GoodNicksAreTaken]

Lucas Art's Sam and Max Hit the Road had you flip to a page and dress the on screen paper doll style characters up like they are dressed up on the manual page. The game has been replicated in Flash http://axigan.deviantart.com/art/Sam-and-Max-Dressup-game-77720716

Re:Make the DRM a game

[penguinchris]

That's really funny - I don't remember that though. I had (still have) a legitimate copy of the game and it definitely didn't have that feature, I'm sure I'd remember. I do remember plenty of games where you had to look up stuff in the manual - there's a huge binder with the photocopied manual for the classic F-117A game in my parents house ;)

Well, I did buy the game as part of a collection of LucasArts games, and I don't think it came with a manual for any of them, so that could have been the reason :)

resale market

[DaveGod]

Even if Sony has the better of possible intentions with this, they'll immediately be faced with publishers seeking to take control of the online authentication in order to lock specific games to specific consoles and hence kill the resale market. This is also likely to be more of a problem for even those who always buy new and never sell, since any activation limit is more likely to cause problems when they take their game round to play at their friend's house.

Publishers seem even more pissed at the resale market than piracy. There is some logic to it, since on the resale market gamers are actually handing over money and a sale being made, it's just that they're cut out the loop. Obviously reality is a bit more complicated than that, I'm not saying I agree with the point, but a second-hand sale does look a lot more like a lost sale to the publisher than with piracy where the vast majority of the time the pirate never had any intentions of paying anyone.

Re:resale market

[Junta]

They would have to say all used markets are 'wrong' to justify their whining about used games. Ford doesn't see money for a used Taurus being sold, a homebuilder sees no revenue from a used house sale, and so on for any random second hand thing on craigslist. Video games are not magically more entitled than any other industry.

Re:resale market

[canajin56]

Video games are different from cars and houses because they are copyrighted. So they don't have to say all used markets are "wrong", just that the Doctrine of First Sale is wrong. They would have had better luck in the past, when first sale wasn't actually law, just an unwritten guideline. But for a long time now it has been law. They've tried to get around it by saying "No see it says that the owner is allowed to resell, but we're the owner of the copyright, it doesn't actually refer to the owner of the disc!" but since the law specifically makes that distinction and says it's the owner of the copy, they've not yet been successful. Still, they spend an awful lot of money lobbying both political parties to get First Sale stricken from law.

Meanwhile, they're already using serial keys as an end-run around first sale. So far nobody has had PS3/360 games that lock you out of single player without having a previously-unused CD key, but plenty of them lock you out of bonus features and multiplayer. It's only a matter of time. The only way to stop that is if state AG get serious about false advertising prosecutions. But as long as they're clearly labeling which advertised features do not work unless it's a new copy, I'm not sure how much traction that would get. There might also be an anti-trust angle, but that's pretty tenuous.

Anti-consumer developers, such as the folks at Penny Arcade (they made a game so now they're strongly anti-consumer-rights), say that games are different from movies and CDs because games make all their money from sales, whereas DVDs and CDs are all bonus money on top of the theater tickets and the concerts/radio royalties, so you can't even compare them. When asked about cars and houses, though, their answer is that Ford pays its workers on salary, whereas game developers pay their employees in royalties (which I don't think is true at all) and so therefore you can't compare them, either. Because apparently how a company choses to pay its employees should have a bearing on whether or not resale should be legal.

Re:resale market

[DaveGod]

Man, the whining about games being different is just laughable and highlights the ignorance, arrogance and the plain lack of basic consumer-focused business sense that is endemic in most industries that involve copyright.

Although... There is one true difference between a used car/home sale and a used game sale: the margins on the second sale.

Say a Taurus priced new $25,000, of which dealer makes $2,500, and buyer can trade-in after 3 years for $9,000 (to be sold at $10,000, again a 10% margin).

Ford gets $22,500;

Dealer gets $3,500;

Buyer 1 pays net $16,000;

Buyer 2 pays net $10,000.

Clearly the price of a Taurus can be MUCH higher because all the resale market does is provide a mechanism that is IDENTICAL to a $26,000 price split between two people with dealer extracting only 13.5% out of the transaction.

Now say Halo 8 priced new $60, of which store makes $15, buyer can trade-in for $15 which store resells for $45.

Bungie gets $45

Store gets $45

Buyer 1 pays net $45

Buyer 2 pays net $45

The situation looks a little different no? There is $90 revenue being split and the store is taking 50%. It's even more if Buyer 2 also trades in.

The same solution is returned if we approach the problem from a different angle. If there is no resale market, the buyers need another method to maintain their net cost.

Taurus Buyer 1 needs to maintain the approx $5,333pa cost so keeps his car almost 5 years. Assuming Buyer 2 was scrapping his s/h car after 3 years, he needs to maintain $3,333pa so buys new and keeps for 7.5 years. Therefore Ford sells 5 cars for net $22.5k each every 15 years, almost exactly the same as with the retail market!

But with no game resale market, assuming Buyer 1 and Buyer 2 have a more or less fixed budget of $45 per month, Bungie sells 18 games per year for net $45. With the resale market they sell 12.

OK, so I have a major assumption in both examples that all buyers have a fixed budget available and it is always spent. True, gamers may save money on games and spend that on a DVD. But they're also saving money on DVD's and buying games and frankly there is no argument that consumers shouldn't be saving money.

Consumers are not the problem. Resale is not the problem. Store margins on resale is the problem (for publishers).

what about a dongle?

[craftycoder]

Why don't game makers just start using a dongle on the PS3? There is a USB port on the device right? Sounds cheap, easy, and pretty effective.

Re:And ......

[FatherOfONe]

The ps3 platform lives in 1, 2, 3....

This move will NOT kill the platform but possible save it. I realize you probably don't own a PS3 or perhaps even game at all, but in case you haven't noticed, within the FIRST week of this hack being out, there has been all kinds of cheating now on COD. So much so that the developers of the game are now having to scramble to somehow fix it. The PSP is a platform that has a little over 50 million consoles out the door and yet can't sell a game for crap. Why? because of piracy. The PC (Windows), gaming is almost dead compared to what is was a few years ago. Granted there are still some large sellers, but they are far and few between. Why? Piracy.... Yes WoW sells well, but it is a game that is very difficult to pirate. At this point Sony needs to do WHATEVER it can to completely stop this, and I as a PS3 owner will happily take on some minor inconvenience to make sure that people I am playing with online are not cheating and more importantly, the game developers get paid for the games they produce, thus making sure that they make the next great game I want.

Yes there are some people that want to run Linux (fully) on the PS3, and they just want to hack it, BUT 99.99999999% of the people just want to steal the content and or cheat at the games. Those thieves and cheaters now effect the other games and thus they are scum. I don't know how long you have been around gaming, but this crap has been happening for a long time, and with the current cost of development, companies can't afford to have their crap stolen any more.

So is Sony overreacting? Seeing that sales of their games could be cut by a very large percentage in a few months? That their relatively new online service could be threatened completely in a few weeks? The real question will be when Sony decided to follow Microsofts' lead and start banning people/machines off of PSN for life. Also people better get use to the fact of buying a game and then being REQUIRED to go online to play/download/register part of it.

 

Re:OMG Now we will!

[thrash242]

Please tell me you're joking.

The Xbox 360 controller is garbage for anything other than first/third-person shooters and certain other games. The d-pad might as well not exist, since it's so imprecise and useless for anything requiring digital directional input input. All the time, I hit "right" and end up going up/right, or down/right. It's useless for fighting games, it's useless for 2D platformers, and it's useless for emulating 8 and 16-bit consoles.

I do use my 360 controller on my PC and every time I do, I think to myself, "I need to go buy a better controller--this thing is garbage". I heard they've made an new version with a usable d-pad, but I'm not going to spend $50 on another controller for a console that's got a layer of dust from disuese when there are better PC controllers out there.

Re:I really wish people would tell Sony to fuck of

[rgviza]

Explain that to your 14 year old that wants gran turismo or Madden 2011 for xmas.

I agree with you philosophically, but I tend to put my family first. You go around not letting them listen to music or play the games that everyone else is, for no other reason than "It's morally wrong to have DRM on your system" and you'll have a mutiny on your hands, quite possibly a divorce because your spouse will have to listen to the griefing. If your marriage is marginal (which may or may not be your fault) it could push your family over the edge to misery. As well, the kids will definitely go with the parent who provides some entertainment, as opposed to the anti-entertainment stiff, so that'd screw you in a divorce.

I do take it as far as I can. I buy all of my music (sony or otherwise) through Amazon as high bitrate mp3s. They don't have DRM and you can plug them into iTunes and load them up on your iPod(s), as many times as you want :-) Of course it's a good idea to strip the serial numbers out of the mp3 info, in case your kid decides to let someone copy the music, who later shares it with 20000 people or so. You really don't want that letter showing up in your mailbox.

However a complete entertainment blackout is out of the question. Sony puts out a lot of good movies and a true sony boycott includes all blu ray releases since sony gets paid a royalty on the format.

Re:And ......

[Lumpy]

I game.

The PSP fails because most of the games SUCK. I own a PSP it sits idle. I know others that also own PSP's they sit idle as well.

The DS on the other hand get's played, heck my wife plays it a lot. yet the PSP1000 and the psp3000 I got for a deal both sit there unused because we cant find any games that I want to buy. THAT is why the PSP is dead, Sony releases only crap games.

AS for the PS3, they started the war, but the ps3 still was a distant 3rd in the consoles. I know more people that own a Xbox360 and a Wii than I know own a ps3. Why? the PS3 simply does not have the games to entice people to play it. PS3 motion controls suck compared to Microsoft version and this is from most gaming reviewers, I personally think it's nothing but a Mee-Too catchup to the Wii..

You think people will buy a PS3 when it get;s known that you will never be able to loan your games or sell them used? HALF of gamestop's business is used games.

Looking to the PC to prevent piracy? :)

[BLToday]

Isn't that like looking for a virgin in a whorehouse?

Sure, there are a few solutions around but none of it is completely pirate-proof. Pirates will always pirate.

Re:And ......

[Junta]

We have the precedent of the PC in place for comparison.

Some gems exist in the open source or free world, but overwhelmingly they are outnumbered by professional efforts.

Re:Keygen

[gorzek]

I had a hell of a time installing SpellForce because it was very difficult to tell the 0's and O's apart in the key. They only differed by a couple pixels on the corners so you had to squint at 'em to figure out which was which. Finally figured the damn thing out and put slashes through all the zeroes. Really, though, I wonder how no one catches shit like this before it gets out the door. Or maybe they just don't care. "We've already got their money, who cares if they can't read our poorly-printed serial numbers?"

Re:Keygen

[GrumblyStuff]

Heh, at least we're balancing things out from my previous list: http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1738550&cid=33092228

Not cheap

[Junta]

It would be cheaper to have unique press of disc per client with embedded serial in data than a hardware dongle. Hardware dongles are orders of magnitude more expensive than a disc. Even uniquely 'burned' discs are far too expensive for their tastes and they'd rather burden the user and keep mass-production pressing process in place.

Re:Not cheap

[craftycoder]

Couldn't Sony put a new certificate on a dongle that all new games would require. One dongle for all games and let sony pay for it. It took years for the last dongle to get cracked. Would this one be any different?

Re:Keygen

[theArtificial]

I agree. It's alarming the trend of DLC (*cough* addons, mods?) and microtransactions. Slightly off topic but it's even coming to the web. Look at the services for @font-face renderers and services that resize photos (for a fee of course) so they display on any platform.

Smashing Magazine has plugs for these services.

The plus side is some rocking titles have come out from indy developers. Minecraft and Angry Birds come to mind.

Re:And ......

[gorzek]

In all fairness, the hardware being locked down is not just to thwart Joe Gamer from doing what he wants with his hardware. It's also to keep game companies from bypassing Sony and distributing their software without paying licensing fees. Sony doesn't make a lot of money off of each PS3 sale (and initially they lost money), so those fees for licenses and dev kits are an essential component of the console business model.

Console manufacturers don't get into that business to make money from console sales, they do it to make money off of each game sale, which is a far bigger revenue stream. Consoles themselves are often loss leaders.

Or just being driven to a competitor

[Sycraft-fu]

If you don't think MS and Nintendo won't find a way to capitalize on the "We don't do this stupid shit," you are kidding yourself.

Re:I really wish people would tell Sony to fuck of

[__aaqvdr516]

I had stopped before that due to a slew of poor quality purchases. There needs to be more of us around.

Re:Keygen

[GrumblyStuff]

Minecraft is interesting but still hasn't managed to be a game any more than a set of legos or a sandbox is a game. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I've tooled around with MC a lot, building forts, farms, tunnels, and railways but there's not much about it that's "gamey". The potential is there but from what I read on the forums, seems like mod authors are ahead. I am interested in where Notch wants to take the game though.

Re:And ......

[zifn4b]

Ok, time for a bad car analogy. Do car manufacturers require gas companies to pay license fees in order for their gas to be used in the manufacturer's car? I don't think so. Let's try car parts. Does FRAM need a license for their air filters to be used in Fords or Chevies or specific models of either? Don't think so.

I say the business model is logically flawed.

Re:And ......

[Dunbal]

The PC (Windows), gaming is almost dead compared to what is was a few years ago.

      Funny how a market can be "almost dead" and yet have some record-breaking sales figures. This is just like Hollywood complaining that no one is going to the movies anymore (piracy, right?) even when box office records are broken every weekend.

Re:And ......

[gorzek]

You're comparing vehicles, which are basically an essential part of every day life, to a video game console--which is, to put it bluntly, nothing more than a luxury item.

Sony (and any console maker) can do this for as long as it's practical and enforceable. The console model has worked this way pretty much since it's inception. If people want an open gaming platform, that's what PCs are. Pick up some commodity hardware, load up a free OS and some open source game libraries, and have at it.

That said, I don't think Sony has any right to prevent people from running their own software on a console they paid for. They have a much better case for preventing commercial distribution of "unapproved" software, though. It is a legal case rather than a technological one.

Re:console developers are idiots

[gorzek]

What a lousy comparison. The peripherals are "required" for some games because the game was designed to be experienced with the proper hardware and a standard controller is inadequate. This is not at all like requiring a serial key, which adds no value or enhanced experience to the player.

Re:And ......

[Schadrach]

So the DS and Wii are also dead, right? The DS in particular, since there've been flashcarts for it almost as long as it's been out, although the Wii had a software hack based on one of the launch titles less than a year after release.

In the next gen console: App Store/DLC only

[ducomputergeek]

I foresee the next generation Xbox/PS having no optical drive, just a HDD and requiring an Xbox Live subscription. All game purchases will be made either by pre-paid card sold at stores or directly from their market place and downloaded to the device. Then if you get a new console, just download again using the same XBL account.

Re:In the next gen console: App Store/DLC only

[SuiteSisterMary]

Sony already tried this. Called it the 'PSP Go.' Might have worked better if they'd had a way to transfer over already-bought PSP games.

Digital Distribution and Serial Exchange Services

[tsman]

the sooner we ditch physical media, the better. Digital Distribution is the Now and should remain so. Console Gamers will have to adjust to present. Does anyone believe for a second that some massive boycott will ensue if discs can't be traded? As the internet becomes a part of everything under the sun, consoles need to adjust to the modern age and the manufacturers can make a name for themselves by doing their Duty to bring everyone else on board. Other than selling or trading discs, which doesn't have to disappear, why would anyone want to continue using discs? Look at Steam...perfect example of a system that Works. You get a game serial attached to your account and it works just fine. Want to trade in your game? Make it possible to resell your account key...problem solved. That in itself can open up a whole new line of revenue, which I LOATHE to even bring up, but think about all the ads the services can place on a Game Serial Exchange board, a small service fee they can charge, things like that. It removes any trust issues for selling a physical product, damaged discs, the hassle of shipping. I'm sure the shipping companies/post office might be a bit miffed on losing out on those revenues, but it's not like they're going out of a business as a result.

Why is this such a big deal

[brunes69]

I see no signs that pirating is "rampant" on the PS3, or that it will have any meaningful impact on Sony's busniess. In fact, the 360 has been modded FOREVER, as have the Wii.

Anyone can pirate any games they want on these platforms, and I don't see that fact hurting the bottom line of the Xbox division or Nintendo.

The game media seems to be making a mountain out of a molehill here. I doubt Sony cares about this as much as the media thinks they do.

I've seen this before

[Aggrajag]

This will lead to a PS3 warez scene not unlike PC warez scene: cracked executables already included in downloadable iso-images.

Circle of life...

[D-OveRMinD]

Hilarious. So everyone complained about the rampant piracy in PC gaming as the excuse for moving to console exclusivity. So here we are, them FINALLY realizing that they are no safer on a console, and Sony is looking to the PC INDUSTRY for help/ideas on preventing piracy. WTFIRONY

Re:And ......

[Khyber]

"The PSP fails because most of the games SUCK"

And let's not forget the break from traditional controller config from sony - only two shoulder buttons, ONE analog stick?

Come on, when you say I can control PS3 games with my PSP, and I look at the broken-ass controls on the PSP versus the PS3 controller, I have to shake my head. I tried it ONCE, and it was pretty much impossible because I was missing half the controls.

ps3 is doomed

[ecorona]

This is the biggest indicator ever that the ps3 system is completely doomed. This is a last ditch desperate effort to reap some more profit from the system. I have serious doubts customers will put up with this much. How far does the corporate d*ck have to be shoved up Sony's customers' asses before they stop buying from them?

goodbye secondary market

[sixsixtysix]

looks like the final nail in the coffin. of course, if you take away my rights to loan, resell, and make back-ups, it is fair that i make sure you don't profit from said commodities. little side note here. if amazon gives away an album for free in mp3 format, where can i sell those (deleting the originals, of course)? flash drive on ebay? i only ask because maybe a year or so ago, they offered up all of mojo nixon's catalog for free. i mean, if people can equate copyright infringement with theft, then surely, i can resell those like i would if they had given away physical cds...right?

Re:OMG Now we will!

[QuantumBeep]

Please tell me you're joking.

Hey, be nice. That the 360 gamepad is quite good is a commonly-held position.

Meh...

[Heratiki]

What I love the most is the fact that no matter where you hear this story it always starts with "Rumor has it" and yet idiots galore flock to speak regarding said travesty. As if it's already happened. It's a rumor people. You know, let me help those who are having a hard time... http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=define:+rumor Enjoy!

Analogous to the concept of my sig

[KingAlanI]

I tolerate the RIAA's behavior because *some* (IMHO) good stuff comes from their control, and it doesn't make sense to eschew that in the name of a crusade against their bad stuff. Though the music I buy isn't DRMed, this seems analogous to the issue you face; you simply propose a different response.

Oh well

[scdeimos]

Sony, for its part, hasn't confirmed or denied the rumours - but it will certainly have to do something to get the genie back in the bottle.

Like maybe release a new PS4 console. They have been milking the PS3 for five years now. Let it die.

Re:And ......

[man_the_king]

The PSP fails because most of the games SUCK...I know others that also own PSP's they sit idle as well....Sony releases only crap games...AS for the PS3, they started the war, but the ps3 still was a distant 3rd in the consoles. I know more people that own a Xbox360 and a Wii than I know own a ps3. Why? the PS3 simply does not have the games to entice people to play it. PS3 motion controls suck compared to Microsoft...I personally think it's nothing but a Mee-Too catchup to the Wii.

Ah. I see. A 360 fanboy.

Re:I really wish people would tell Sony to fuck of

[penguinchris]

Do many 14-year-olds you know really play Gran Turismo? It's quite difficult and boring to most people (I personally quite enjoy it, but don't really see it as a "game"). I'd think 14-year-olds would be more interested in the latest Need For Speed, or whatever's cool these days :)

Typing, haha

[Internetuser1248]

It bad enough on a PC with a keyboard typing in a 30 character alphanumeric sequence. I am going to love seeing 13 year old playstation users trying to get it right with a controller.

Can't compete with Microsoft.

[EnsilZah]

Lame.

Sony's keys will never be able to compete in a Microsoft-dominated market.
FCKGW-RHQQ2-YXRKT-8TG6W-2B7Q8 was an instant classic, there's a reason I can still remember parts of it so many years from its release.

Seems like the easy answer

[cybrodroid]

Everyone keeps talking about how they should do something similar to steam, so why not just use steam? I know Sony aren't the type to let anyone else hold any keys, but they are in an awkward position. I still don't exactly understand what the Steamworks that will accompany Portal 2 entails, but considering Sony and Valve already have something of a relationship...

won't this make things worse?

[vuffi_raa]

Right now circumvention of any DRM for video games and systems isn't permitted by the DMCA, though come the next cycle in three years it may be permitted if the library of congress deems the DRM to be intrusive, the exceptions have already been made with music and video DVD's that circumvention of protection on discs that contain DRM that is intrusive...

Fuck off with this idea, Sony.

[Archeleus]

Love,

Guy who hates typing in shit with a controller.