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Ballmer Slams Android As Cheap and Overcomplicated
jfruhlinger writes "On the day Android Ice Cream Sandwich was released, Steve Ballmer livened up the Web 2.0 conference by lobbing potshots at Google's mobile OS, calling it the choice of 'cheap' phones and claiming 'the biggest advantage we have over Android is that you don't need to be a computer scientist to use a Windows Phone.'"
Windows Phone 7 UI is really well done. It might come as a suprise, especially after Windows Mobiles, but it really is. It might even be better than iPhone's UI. Android is a copy of iPhone, but not that well done. On top of that it seems to change a lot between different manufacturers and versions. There's no unified look.
.NET and Visual Studio, which quite honestly is the best developing environment on the planet. So if you're an existing Windows developer, moving to Windows Phone 7 is piece of cake.
If you have looked at any of the Android tablets, they aren't really that well done either. iPad is a lot better and more polished product. And, Windows 8 tablets will have the advantage of being able to run standard Windows programs if they want to (.NET apps should work even without recompiling).
Like Ballmer says, they aren't even targeting the geek group. They are targeting both casual people and business people. They don't want to mess around with the system. iPhone is just for casual people, the artsy type and geeks who just want a good platform. However, to be fair, I find Windows Phone 7 to be a solid platform and Nokia should be able to make great hardware for it. On top of that it supports
He does have good points, and others have said the same before. Even Steve Jobs said the same. Instead of hating Ballmer for stating the truth, maybe we should work on Android to make it better. But as years go by, I find that GPL and Linux geeks fall under that a lot - they completely ignore what people actually want, and the answer is usually something along the lines "do it yourself". Sure, that's fine for a hobbyist project, but you shouldn't be surprised if people choose other products instead or point out why they do so.
Doesn't Windows have a lower TOC than Linux, according to Microsoft?
Windows Phone 7 will be not-cheap and not-complex.
This means it will be expensive and not do half the stuff Android does.
This from the man who thought the iphone was too expensive and would never get a foothold in the business market. Real business savvy there. Why haven't they fired the guy yet again?
I get the impression Ballmer hasn't even used an Android phone. Exactly what part of the OS is complicated to use? Really, that's just an absurd, out-there statement.
Better known as 318230.
Everyone knows the iPhone is the phone for dumb people. Confirming Android as the phones for smart people leaves nothing for Windows.
The best thing about Android Ice Cream Sandwich is that Steve Ballmer has gone nowhere near it.
Linux O Muerte!
That sounds like same Ballmer who laughed at the iPhone because of how expensive it was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U
Same negative marketing smack talk. Also, enjoy the irony that expensive phones are apparently now good, and cheap is bad. (although, of course, cheap isn't the same thing as inexpensive - it really *is* good to be neither expensive nor cheap).
I AM a Computer Scientist!
My wife loves her new Android phone. She will be so excited that she now has a Computer Science degree as well as her PoliSci degree.
So apply for a job at Microsoft and put down you have a Degree in CS and when they ask from where hold up your Android phone and point at at.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Let's not forget; Ballmer isn't exactly fond of Google*. I'm not surprised he's got a mouthful of trash to talk.
"At that point, Mr. Ballmer picked up a chair and threw it across the room hitting a table in his office," Lucovosky recounted, adding that Ballmer then launched into a tirade about Google CEO Eric Schmidt. "I'm going to f***ing bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to f***ing kill Google." Schmidt previously worked for Sun Microsystems and was the CEO of Novell.
[*] - http://news.cnet.com/2100-1014_3-5846243.html
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It's okay though... no one listens to Ballmer anymore these days except Microsoft employees because they have to.
Really Steve? Do you know just how stupid that makes you sound?
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
It's wise of ms to go after the high-price, low-IQ market.
"You don't need to be a computer scientist to use a Windows Phone. You don't need to be anything at all! Most WP users don't even exist!"
The biggest advantage that WP has over Android is that one thing Ballmer mentioned. The biggest advantage that Android has over WP is everything else.
"lobbing potshots at Google's mobile OS,"
Is that a step up or down from lobbing chairs?
It wasn't that long ago that Mr. Ballmer claimed that nobody would be buying Macs because they were more expensive, and nobody would "pay $500 for a logo"(despite the fact that that the price difference is nowhere near that, and you actually get a real OS instead of a toy, that wasn't mentioned). But now that the shoe is on the other foot all of a sudden he thinks people are willing to "pay for quality"(despite the fact that like every other Microsoft product WP7 is a steaming pile). So which is it Mr. Ballmer? Will people pay for a logo or won't they? Will people pay for quality?
Monstar L
Seriously, I have a Google Nexus One, I am one of the 165K that bought the thing.
... All the stuff I want to do.
It has been a joy. No Telecom crap. A few applications I can't uninstall (grrrrr) but the UI and functionality has been peachy. I am always showing off how easy it is to do multitasking, navigation, web searches,
My wife's Atrix? Not so much. Maybe now that Google is buying them, Google can scrape the sludge of a UI Motorola slathered on their phones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0
I wonder if he would have made that same statement about Microsoft's innovative efforts and visionary user experience without laughing just two years ago, pitting Eclair against Windows mobile 6. I dare him to use a Samsung Omnia II for more than five minutes without crushing it to bits.
I have a T-Mobile MyTouch 4g running Cyanogenmod 7.1 in my pocket right now. It's a very, very nice phone. I also have a friend who is looking to buy his first smartphone. He just wants the Internet in his pocket, and reading product barcodes to immediatly find reviews & prices interests him. No games or videoconferencing or anything fancy.
The main reason I told him to buy an iPhone is that if you go into a store to choose an Android phone there is no way to know if, when an OS update is released, you will receive it at all. The "latest-android" might be out, and you are wondering when you'll have it pushed to your phone. The carrier says to talk to the manufacturer, the manufacturer says they released it to the carrier, no-one knows for sure if you'll get it all. LG, Motorola, HTC, Samsung multiplied by T-mobile, ATT, Verizon and you have a huge matrix of possibilities and no-one can tell you before you choose a handset if that one will recieve OS updates, or how quickly.
Even folks on the same carrier but with different brand handsets see wildly different timeframes for updates.
I can update my Cyanogenmod myself, but he can't & shouldn't need to. He should just be able to walk out of the store with a smartphone and, when an OS update is released, just have it pumped into his phone right away.
Android phones are great for enthusiasts but for my friend & most other folks, the iPhone is a better choice.
"The biggest disadvantage we have is that nobody will touch a Windows phone with a 15 foot barge pole".
Somehow their HTC Evo Shifts are working just fine, aside from the occasional broken screen. (& guess who gets to fix it) The only problem I've seen so far is bloatware bogging the things down by running on startup as services, & that's the CARRIER'S fault for following the WINDOWS pack-in model, AKA something you won't experience with vanilla Android or Cyanogenmod, just like you won't experience it w/ vanilla Windows that's like twice as expensive compared to what the volume licensees get.
I don't think he does, he says stupid things fairly often. His mouth is like a font, with stupidity gushing forth. Given the dismal track record of previous Microsoft products that attempted to go up against the iPod (Zune), iTunes (MSN Music Store), and iPhone (Kin), their new offering will have an extreme uphill battle, and probably be abandoned just like its predecessors.
That'll be one major factor contributing to the new Windows phone's failure, it's hard to trust that Microsoft will stick with something when the going gets a little tough, and most people actually do learn when they've been burned by a vendor who sells them a bum product and then drops all support for it within months. Clearly, as CEO, he hasn't learned any lessons from previous dismal failures, either.
You mean as opposed to the iPhone?
WTF happened to you, AC? You used to be so witty and inciteful.. uh, I mean insightful.
which is totally what she said
you don't need to be a computer scientist to use a
OK lets define "use" as making the computer bend to my will, rather than making me bend to the computer's will. In other words, I wanna install whatever software I want.
Rank the iphone, android, and windows phone in order of education requirements to jailbreak.
My very semi-serious research:
iphone is supposedly jailbreakable with like "click on a website" or something. Or at least it was. Then it either magically worked or was irrecoverably bricked. So I'd say this is roughly lower grade school level.
android takes all kinds of foolishness just to install cyanogenmod, but its well documented. You need about as much skill as it takes to bake a cake, which admittedly most of the marching morons can't do without setting the kitchen on fire. I'd say this is roughly college freshman level.
I don't think anyone uses windows phone so there is not much news out there. I'd say roughly PHD level because you'll be breaking new territory, using something no sane person has ever used before. Kind of like LSD in the early 60s.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Oh no ... thats a huge step down from slamming chairs as a sign of anger. think - a measly smartphone .... not striking at all.
Read radical news here
have blown by Android and iPhone, right?
If he's right (BIG "if") though, I have one thing to say to him:
"Welcome to OS/2-land, BITCH."
Paranoia is a Survival Trait!
Well, my sister is fairly intelligent but is by no means a geek or 'computer scientist'. She's lucky she can turn on a computer and use facebook. Despite her minimal computer knowledge and abilities, she's had no issues using and loving her Droid Incredible android phone over the last couple years. She loves it, and has no desire to move to an iPhone, and probably hasn't even ever heard of a Windows phone; though I'm pretty sure she's smart enough to avoid any phone that runs 'Windows'...
Balmer is an idiot and MS would do well to get rid of him.
Nothing to see here
I know it's common to bash MS on slashdot. I tried out a Windows Phone recently... Before grasping it I had a cocky smirk on my face thinking the phone would be complete trash. (I owned two windows CE phones before - hating them and getting rid of them quickly). I was pleasantly surprised using the phone and think it could be a real winner in my honest opinion. I have used Android/BlackBerry and iPhone and although the iPhone is a bunch of fun - I think the Windows Phone gets straight to the point and it's very (very!) responsive. I think Microsoft has a pretty good product here. Try one out before you bash. It may not be 'the best' but it's pretty respectable.
Mr. Balmer still thinks in terms of scaring undecided buyers into buying his stuff. Maybe he planned his speach a year ago but he seems to forget that millions already own an Android and 10's of millions have seen one in their neighboorhood. These people now all know that he is a lying turd. I think Mr. Balmer is a bad salesman; a good one never tells obvious untruths.
I don't think he does, he says stupid things fairly often. His mouth is like a font, with stupidity gushing forth.
And, given Microsoft's history, the font is almost certainly Comic Sans.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
Right Steve, that's why Android's doing so badly - cause you need a PhD in CS to use it.... Meantime I always here Paul Thorrott clamoring about how fragmented the Android market and market place are. I've had an Evo pretty much since they came out. I rooted it because I didn't feel like paying Sprint an extra $30/month for hotspot that I only use in a pinch anyway. And then I wanted gingerbread so I installed a ROM. Didn't need to do that. It's been over a year, closer to two and I don't feel fragmented or that behind and I definitely don't feel like I need to update anything. This Android based phone rarely has problems nor needs to be rebooted like my old Windows Mobile piece of crap used to. With that piece of shit I could get a frozen phone just trying to answer the phone sometimes...
"you don't need to be a computer scientist to use a Windows Phone.'"
My mom plays with my android phone when I go visit. She's about the farthest thing from a computer scientist I know. I still occasionally have to remind her how to move a file between directories (on Windows). She finds the android OS to be very intuitive, and would get one herself if she had any need for a smart phone.
Criticizing Android's faults is one thing, but descending into ridiculous hyperbole that no one in his right mind is going to believe is pretty stupid.
"I disagree with you" does not equal "flamebait."
I've been using my first Android phone for a little over 2 weeks. I think on the whole the capabilities are brilliant but there are some real frustrations. It's still a lot less frustrating to deal with than Windows, and this phone was cheap.
My frustrations with Android /system partition /data and /system partitions, plenty of crapware on the phone I got which I then removed, but no easy way to repartition.
- Forced update of "protected" apps on the
- Default calendar without search? (Google is a search company!)
- Default opt in for sharing every detail about your life with Google
- Need to root phone to get full functionality and remove garbage protected apps
- Separate
- Only some apps can have some portion moved off internal memory. Many phones have very limited internal memory. There are kludges to get around this if you root the phone (such as link2sd, or apps2sd and Titanium backup moving apps to SD card even if not marked to do so, but some apps don't play well with these solutions and you still end up limited)
- Incompatibility between versions of Android
The upside:
- Google voice is impressive
- Heaps of apps, some very good. Lots of apps to quickly look things up - from guitar tab to identifying a song that's playing. Great travel and web apps. Apps that use your phone's GPS into a fully featured instrument, not to mention games.
- Familiar Unix commands, even a terminal on the phone
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
My teenage daughters have no problem with over-complex Android. They love it. Just what level of intellect are they aiming WP7 at?
This will never get modded up here, but windows phone UI is really innovative. Let's be sincere, android UI is very similar to Iphone, and very similar to blackberry too. A lot of icons, you push into one, and the app opens. How innovative. Windows phone UI is actually different, and beautiful.
And I don't work for Microsoft, nor I have a single windows install at home (or in the office) because in the desktop, windows sucks.
Just negate each statement that Ballmer says, and you will start to value him as a source of information.
As I said elsewhere, Ballmer is the CEO of Microsoft's middle age. It sits atop its Windows-Office business and literally pisses money in the direction of major competitors' product lines. Has the XBox division actually paid back the massive investment? Has Microsoft ever even been able to have a successful quarter in its long sad history of web portals/search engines? And we've seen Windows phones before, and once again, Microsoft is behind the game and trying to catch up. Apple has a corner on the market, Android is everywhere. Where's Microsoft going to fit their phone in?
I won't call where Microsoft is a decline, as they're still making money hand over fist, but by and large it's selling to the same customers over and over again. I doubt, if you peeled it away, you would find much in the way of actual growth.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I tried to use an iphone the other day, I felt the same way. Why the fuck is there no back button? Why cannot I not access setting from inside the mail client?
Much of human factors is personal preference and what you are used to.
I'm a diehard Apple fanboy so I'll almost always love a story that knocks Android down a peg or two but, seriously, this is the biggest load of crap possible.
:).
It's simply one of two things - he's either entirely out of touch or he's spreading FUD. Given that I don't believe he's out of touch (like some CEO's recently who have spouted off some of the dumbest nonsense that I think I've ever heard...), that leaves FUD. And Microsoft/Balmer has a long history of doing this so it's not the least bit surprising.
What I do find surprising is how obvious he is about it. Love him or hate him, when Steve Jobs talked down about a competitor's product, it always seemed like he believed what he was saying (obviously I can't speak for what he did or did not believe but, for example, if he said he didn't think there was a market for 7" tablets, thereby saying all 7" tablets weren't going to sell well, you believed he believed there wasn't a market for 7" tablets). Balmer doesn't even make his trash talking remotely believable. How am I supposed to believe that Android is too confusing to use if I know he doesn't believe it? In fact, his inability to convince me that he believes what he's saying tells me that Android is not, in fact, too confusing to use (something I already knew, but now I know it even more...
Not only are his comments FUD but they're
obviously FUD. Anyone who believes the snake oil that he's selling is a fool (one of the many reasons I believe Ballmer's days as CEO of Microsoft are nearing an end...).
So? Its BALLMER. The guy who said that iPhones probably aren't going to sell at all, and windows phone and zune are going to do fantastic.
Nostradamus would be more relevant to modern tech predictions than Steve Ballmer.
GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
Yea I see that as a minor fail, you had to figure out how to answer a phone which is a sign of brilliant design, dont worry I also missed the first couple calls the first time I used one too
I really think the neatest thing about androin is the way it gets modded. I wonder how Ballmer and company will respond to people hacking windows phones? I bet it wont be pretty.
.. when you're a distant fifth place.
Look, Ballmer, I get that you don't like Android. So let's hear what's so awesome about Windows Phone.
There may be a reason why Android represented 46% of market share for 2011Q2 (according to Gartner). That many people can't find it that hard to use, otherwise it wouldn't be selling.
I've seen both android and iphones and used both although I own neither. I'll agree that the iphone is better, but it's not that much better. Android isn't bad it just lacks the polish that Apple is so damn good at. Still though if I bought a smartphone I'd probably go android for one reason and that's choice. I want a phone with at least a 4" screen and Apple doesn't offer that at all. I think that's a mistake on their part. Anything under 4 inches is just too tiny to actually use for very much as far as I'm concerned.
I won't mod you down but I'll ask a simple question: How can you not understand an interface where pointing with your index finger will do any of the tasks you would be used to with an iPhone, most likely with the exact same gesture?
Click Browser
Click Address Bar
Type Address
Win?
Where can I get one of these "Android/Blackberry" devices? Since when has RIM put Android on Blackberry phones??
Ballmer consistently and repeatedly talks out of his ass. Somebody needs to put a lid on this guy because the company is clearly directionless with him at the helm. I've used Windows Phone and it is indeed polished and a step in the right direction, but with this guy running the show, who knows what the fuck is going to happen. He has a history of making delusional, sensational claims that ultimately make him look like a crybaby who is ill-equipped to actually compete. If Windows Phone would have come out and been feature complete at the beginning, more people would have bought it and we likely wouldn't be having this argument. Windows Phone 7 itself is solid, but the market has decided. There are two clear winners: Android and iOS. Of note, I am an iOS AND Android user. I have an iPad and a Xoom, a G2 and an iPhone 4S. I am not loyal to one platform. I love the polish and reliability of iOS and the open nature of Android. This is not me advocating any platform in particular, just me pointing out that Ballmer is an asshat and it was a poor decision to put him in charge.
Metro *is* indeed innovative, and beautiful, but it's also very fragile. I was immediately taken by it, like you. I think a huge amount of respect must be given to the team that created something so different to everything else out there, whilst still working well. But sadly, not well enough for me. I found the interface to be too focussed on the zoomed/cropped typography and every app felt to similar and didn't get me thinking in "modes" which I need to do... in many ways it's not a GUI at all... it's a TUI (typographical user interface) and this is ultimately it's downfall... there's definately not enough design vocabulary outside of the type. And the tiles are easily destroyed with hideous work by 3rd parties...
You know, someone modding you down doesn't mean they are fan boy. They could be modding you down because your not really adding anything. In fact your being about as rational and helpful as a fan boy. Any device takes some time to learn, especially if you are coming from another platform. If you take a long time user of any major platform and move them to a different one they will have problems initially. That isn't a good way to judge it.
My personal experience with the usability of Android phones has been good. An informal survey of people I know shows the same. No complaints from anyone. I've also found that giving an Android phone to someone who hasn't used one before has similar results to giving an iPhone to someone who hasn't used one. They can do simple things but get a bit lost.
So yes, please do mod him down fanboys.
Yeah, I think you're spot-on in your assessment, and I really like the "middle age" term here. It really applies. Just like the middle-aged guy who shows up to work to collect a paycheck, they're not climbing the ladder anymore, but they've built enough of a stable niche that they don't have to worry about being out on the street next week unless they really screw something up.
... is another man's flexibility. This is the same company that apparently thought giving people access to basic file attributes was too complicated, and so removed and obfuscated them in Windows 7 to the point that yet another third party shell-extension utility is needed to make up for it. (What's worse is that the labeled "Read Only" box now doesn't actually represent JUST the read-only attribute any more, but now also combines permissions and/or sharing states in some confusing fashion that even I haven't yet figured out... which is kinda exactly the opposite of simplification.)
... why he slams Android is that it does not ship with REVERSI.
To me that's a showstopper fail for a phone design. Anyone should be able to pick up any phone that's ringing and be able to answer it.
Are you saying there isn't a button with a phone handset in a raised position, and the colour green? Physical or on screen?
If there is, the what's the problem?
Yeah, I had someone call me on mine the day I got it just to see if I could answer it. Of course I did, first call, without a problem. I never did understand why it was an issue.
Learn to love Alaska
Everyone I know that has a Windows phone bought it second-hand to root and install Android on.
And my first Android phone I took from 1.0 to Cupcake. And then Eclair. If you owned a Windows CE phone, you updated it from CE to, well, nothing. It was burned in ROM. No updates.
Even the WP7 updates have been tortured events.
Ballmer has to say this crap though. It's his job to spew.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
It may not be 'the best' but it's pretty respectable.
Look; I know you're shilling and all that, and I have a family to feed too, so I don't want to criticise, but could you please sound a bit less pathetic:
<beos_fan> BeOS is really not that bad; it's almost better than Windows and it really does interact well. BeOS may not be as effective as a Mac and it doesn't have the user friendliness of Twm but it's really good. Hell, I tried an AT&T Hobbit but I didn't like it one bit, but now that they've moved to the new PowerPC (TM) hardware I'm just amazed by how it does some of what the other systems do. It could be a real winner in my honest opinion. </beos_fan>
Just imagine that? No unpaid BeOS fan would ever descend to your level, so if you are going to carry out your profession for Microsoft, at least make it sound like you're trying to make it sound like you're enthusiastic.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
One of my coworkers has a Windows phone. After using it for about a year, he says it has some really nice innovations, but the UI gets in the way of doing certain things, and there hasn't been nearly the same level of development on it as Android or iOS.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
I haven't tried a WP7 device yet, but I give credit to Microsoft for at least trying something different, original and novel. Whether it works well or not is debatable, although it appears to be very good at showing dynamic information clearly on the home screen. On the other hand, I don't like the idea of being tied to Windows tech with my phones even though I mostly run Windows 7 (I want to have the flexibility of moving to a Linux distro if they ever come good), so it's of no real use for me.
To all newcomers - people here are very close-minded and can't handle complaints about Linux. Keep this in mind.
The only reason I couldn't figure out how to use my Droid 2 Global was because Android lacks the functionality to do what I wanted it to do. At first I thought it was a matter of being complicated and burying functionality with obscure settings and what-not. I wanted Android to behave like a full OS, I wanted to treat my smart phone essentially like a computer that is just really small. But, no, that kind of functionality just isn't there. And that's why I had a frustrating time accepting it's not complicated, it's actually overly limited. Don't even get me started on what a nightmare it's been to manage media on the damn thing.
/Android user.
//waiting for Windows desktop on my mobile phone
///Will pay for a device and OS that puts computing into my palm
the one I used, you had to swipe across the screen to pick it up, that would not have been bad but the first time It was not what I was expecting, from them on out it would take a couple tries as you had to do it just right or it would snap back, so it was not just a wisk of the finger.
It was some HTC phone and at that point I said fuck it and just let it ring.
(mind you I have a old style flip phone with a durn button on it, and this was when our phones went out at work so one of the managers gave his work phone to us to use until the problem could be resolved)
Everyone I know that has a Windows phone bought it second-hand to root and install Android on.
In that case, I'd say you know people who are more advanced than the average user. Quite a lot of people get a phone and just go with whatever is on there by default. Most people, actually. Those acquaintances of yours are probably not a good sample population to judge the adequacy of Windows or Android to the end user's wants and needs.
I have a T-Mobile MyTouch 4g running Cyanogenmod 7.1 in my pocket right now. It's a very, very nice phone. I also have a friend who is looking to buy his first smartphone. He just wants the Internet in his pocket, and reading product barcodes to immediatly find reviews & prices interests him. No games or videoconferencing or anything fancy.
So why the hell would he want CyanogenMod or updates past the version that came with the phone and works fine out of the box? Your argument for an iPhone for your friend makes no sense, with all due respect.
I8-D
I really think the neatest thing about androin is the way it gets modded
99% of people out there don't care at all
I bet it wont be pretty.
You'd lose that bet. There was an jailbreak tool that exploited a vulnerability to jailbreak WP7 phones. Microsoft closed the vulnerability but worked with the team in an official capacity to release an approve jailbreak tool. http://www.chevronwp7.com/post/6629433362/announcing-chevronwp7-labs
Since I find Android to be incredibly simple to use, as does my wife and and young child, I just want to know where we are supposed to contact Ballmer to be issued our Degrees in Science?
Even the WP7 updates have been tortured events.
Um, not quite. The last update nodo was a problem on a couple samsung models but worked fine on everything else. The current update Mango as of today available to 99% of Windows Phones worldwide, both old and new. It's easy to laugh at growing pains of a new platform, but when the Android platform is still a fragmented mess of version numbers after years you don't have much room to talk.
... Why does he do his utmost to help Android by making their phones $5 - $15 more expensive?
"the biggest advantage we have over Android is that you don't need to be a computer scientist to use a Windows Phone."
This is quite true, because you'd have to be an idiot to use a Windows Phone! I kid, I haven't try the new phones so I don't really know.
I have an HD7. It is a piece of shit.
The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
That doesn't look like a root. Seems more like an app for developers.
With mine, sometimes it seems like you have to swipe it, and other times it will pick up with just a tap on the button. It's possible that if you're actively using the phone when it rings, you don't have to swipe, but if it's locked you do -- but the fact that I'm still not sure is kind of a UI failure. But not a major one, honestly.
Breakfast served all day!
the one I used, you had to swipe across the screen to pick it up, that would not have been bad but the first time It was not what I was expecting, from them on out it would take a couple tries as you had to do it just right or it would snap back, so it was not just a wisk of the finger.
It was some HTC phone and at that point I said fuck it and just let it ring.
(mind you I have a old style flip phone with a durn button on it, and this was when our phones went out at work so one of the managers gave his work phone to us to use until the problem could be resolved)
You're talking about the lock screen. That's just a safety feature to keep the touch screen from being accidentally activated. Nothing to do with answering the phone as such, you just had to know how to unlock it. I run Cyanogenmod on my phone, and allows me to disable the lock screen entirely and use the trackball button to unlock the device. Much more convenient.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
yea as I originally said, minor fail and if I were using the thing all the time it would be nothing to overcome, but for a phone it seems to be overcomplicating the action at first use
Windows for "smart" phones is not cheap, and it you have to be computer illiterate (or atleast completely unaware of ALL the alternatives) to enjoy using it.
Yep, Stevie Ballmer is finally right about something! Android is a good choice for cheap, awesome phones, while Windows is the choice for expensive, uncomplicated, shitty phones.
Or you can take the Aplle tack in this argument (I won't) and say this is all irrelevant because iOS is far superior to both WIndows and Android, and the iPhone is amazing hardware. There a lots of folks who believe both of these points and can't possibly be convinced to use anything else.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
So tell me, is there a cadre of you "you're shilling" cocksuckers out there, or is it more of a dynamic movement where various douchebags independently decide they want to go out and call everyone a shill/astroturfer?
And if there's a cadre of you out there, who is the head douchebag and how do you elect him? Is he the guy with the bear that grows furthest down his neck, or the fattest one with the most ironic black tee-shirt and the most baselessly smug grimace?
Modding people down is so old school. The new hotness is blathering that everyone is a paid shill. Because, you know... Microsoft deeply cares what a bunch of rabidly anti-MS neckbeards think about MS products.
Them thinking MS gives a shit about them is like thinking the hot girl at the table across the restaurant is eye fucking them. Really, she's just staring off into space over their heads wondering why they call it "taking a dump" instead of "leaving a dump",
Make your own! Launch Terminal and type:
say -v Cellos "Droid"
Does it support Active Sync encryption profiles for connecting to Exchange servers yet? Because when it first came out, it didn't support the encryption protocol invented by Microsoft for smart phones...
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
An example of yet another "has been" ( tho obscenely wealthy "has been" i admit, but only due his friend Bill ) trying to cling desperately to old ways of doing business, instead of adapting.
Him stepping down would do Microsoft a world of good.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
See, Steve, the fact is that I am a computer scientist. So I can tell the difference in product quality, without finding out the hard way.
But don't feel too bad about it. If I were an aircraft engineer, I probably wouldn't fly on a Microsoft plane, either.
Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
"fragmented mess of version numbers "
Yup. More than one rev a year will cause some problems. Those who complain about the pace of updates, the pace of hardware improvements, well, you can always go to the iPhone and a fairly predictable release schedule, or WP7 and a much more sedate pace of innovation.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
I agree with this. Its User Interface is a massive fail. Now, I don't use any smartphone but I have used my friends Android phones quite a bit. Apparently, once the owner of the phone is signed into google, no one else can sign in just to check his mail, or quickly chat with someone. Also, I pretty much had the same experience with receiving calls as parent poster did.
Seriously, I am all for Linux and all, but the desktop Linux DEs that I have used are usually well designed. I will probably just go and buy an iPhone, at least I can make and receive calls quite easily. Nothing else matters in a phone, really.
The last major android version released for smartphones was in December 2010.... not exactly lightspeed.
....mmmm the point I guess is that HE CAN'T.... its been none too obvious that MS has completely stagnated during the past DECADE. As an admitted stock holder of MSFT who is quite disappointed, I say this with all seriousness. Ballmer has got to go if MS is going to go anywhere itself...
Ballmer is not a computer scientist since he should be using WP, and if he is not a computer scientist, why the bloody hell does he have a right to evaluate operating systems?
Considering Android is so far out in market penetration compared to Windows Phone this is sounding like sour grapes from Ballmer.
Don't get me wrong, the interface on Windows Phone 7 isn't half bad (could do with some cool skins), Phone 7 with HTC Sense looks amazing and the interface is simple to use.
However the marketplace still doesn't have a diverse range of apps and games that the App Store and Android Marketplace have. Impart from that iOS5, Windows Phone 7 and Android are all pretty much on equel footing. They all preform the same functions, they are very easy to use and except the iPhone: modern releases have dual core phones.
Microsoft right now is paying the price for having a really bad product. Windows Mobile had a cumborsome interface, too reliant on a pen & too office/corporate focused for mainstream adoption not to mention I found it to be an unreliable, horribly designed product.
The whole "Windows on Phones" as a brand has been tarnished in the past. Its a matter of advertising.
Still with that being said, I stand by what I said: he's just coming off as a sore loser. Especially when the whole "cheap" argument goes out the window when you look at what has actually been selling (Samsung Galaxy S & SII, HTC Desire, Motorola Droid, etc).
Make SELinux enforcing again!
If you define "overcomplicated" as being able to do things a Windows 7 phone can't do, then sure.
And yes, you don't have to be a computer scientist to poke tiles on a Windows 7 phone. But if all the other versions of Windows are any indication, you do have to be a computer scientist to keep it running.
It so happens that yesterday we bought a new phone for my wife at the Verizon store. After looking at a variety of android, apple and blackberry phones, she ended up with the HTC Rhyme mostly because she liked the accessories. (But also partly because her daughter could act as tech support.)
I couldn't help but notice that there was exactly one (1) Windows 7 phone in the entire store. The place was crowded, and nobody was touching it. Good work Balmer. You've made a simple smartphone. Good luck with that.
My daughter (who just recently upgraded from a Galaxy to a Bionic) had an interesting point. If you're stuck on a plane for 3 hours, what do you want? Something really really simple, or something a little more complicated?
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
How do you know a new platform will be a success? When Ballmer says it's crap.
I haven't, but I have a friend that moved from an iphone to a winphone7 phone, mostly based on the slick look in the store (it does look pretty cool).
Over time, she's come to absolutely loathe this phone—it's apparently insanely flaky, dysfunctional, and full of weird bugs and "clunk."
The impression I get is that they've got some good designers doing the interface (I dunno how usable it is, but does look good), but serious problems with (software) quality control.
We live, as we dream -- alone....
Taking a look at your posting history, ouch! I guess a pedophile walking around with in a kindergarden with his penis out would be less obvious.
'nuff said.
To avoid corruption, one must remain dishonest.
you don't need to be a computer scientist to use a Windows Phone.'"
True. You need to be a total idiot.
Really, Balmer, that was way too easy. You need to realize where MS is this decade: Nobody loves you anymore, and your monopoly is crumbling. You've done an excellent job delaying the downfall of MS, but as the company is a dinosaur unable to re-invent itself, playing the FUD card again and again and again will accomplish one thing: Using it up.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
- Default calendar without search? (Google is a search company!)
Install another one.
- Default opt in for sharing every detail about your life with Google
Erm no. The default is to opt out on all Google phones. If it was changed to opt in then you can blame your handset manufacturer / carrier for that one. Not an Android issue.
- Need to root phone to get full functionality and remove garbage protected apps
Android doesn't ship with crapware, they are carrier / manufacturer added. Not an Android issue.
- Separate /data and /system partitions, plenty of crapware on the phone I got which I then removed, but no easy way to repartition.
I actually see this as a plus. Pretty much every other phone / mp3 player / other little thing I've ever updated manages to nuke everything including settings in the process. Also /system only holds the system so there's no need to repartition it. EVER. My phone shipped with less than 10mb free on /system and it hasn't changed in over 2 years of use.
- Only some apps can have some portion moved off internal memory. Many phones have very limited internal memory. There are kludges to get around this if you root the phone (such as link2sd, or apps2sd and Titanium backup moving apps to SD card even if not marked to do so, but some apps don't play well with these solutions and you still end up limited)
I agree with this one.
- Incompatibility between versions of Android
What incompatibilities? I have over 230 apps on my phone. Not a single problem going from Froyo to Gingerbread or upgrading through a few different versions of Gingerbread. I heard of compatibility problems between Donut and Eclair but then what major OS revision doesn't break something, other than an OS that only provides you a hand full of APIs?
I have plenty of pet peeves but few are directed at Android, and most are like yours directed towards manufacturer stupidities and carrier crapware.
Don't worry, Steve Jobs is dead now, so there is nothing to copy anymore.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Ever see the glyphs on pyramids?
Sure its not a screen, but its still rows of icons.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
I have an Android phone - a SGS2. I had another one before that. It's probably the best you can get, if you don't want to be locked in iOS or the like, without being able to run whatever app *you* decide to run.
But, it does feel cheap, as in, the experience is not consistent. It lags at times, gods knows why. It's not the hardware - they all do that, in fact, the SGS2 being the most powerful, its the one that lags the less often. Some things or settings are clumsy. Stuff like ad-hoc wifi is unreliable. That's cheap.
And it does feel a little complex. Can you read the battery graph without being an engineer or any prior explanation? Takes a lot of guessing. Can you find your way int he settings without being a geek?
I don't have a W7 mobile device neither tested one in hand, so I can't compare. It might be just as bad ;-)
That said, the main incentive is always going to be (for me): am I going to be able to run absolutely anything I want, however *I* decide to? And generally only open-source guarantees that.
Agreed that he shares the same first name (Steve) as that of a giant in the industry; no matter what, he still can't and will never be able to do a 'Job's. Instead of improving his own company's practices and principles, what possible good does it to do anyone by criticizing your rivals, who are doing a much better job than you!
... about producing cheap over-complicated products
Developers Developers Developers Developers...
Ballmer often spews idiotic statements. It's a fairly reliable indicator that he may in fact be an idiot. The "cheap phone" remark suggests Microsoft cannot compete in the mobile device arena and are desperately attempting to place themselves in the Apple iPhone class and price point. Good luck with that.
I know that I am starting to sound like a Microsoft shill by defending them all the time but I have had a Windows Phone 7 for a few months now and I think it is an outstanding reboot of Windows phones.
The old Windows Mobile was horrible and they needed to rewrite the entire thing.
I like Metro, I like the integration with Sharepoint, Office, and using ActiveSync for my Exchange accounts. Now with the Mango my phone is also integrated with my Office365 account and Skydrive.
I know that the Windows Phone 7 is not popular at all, and in fact if you go into a store you will be steered away from them. Microsoft needs to market the hell out of the fact they actually have a *good* OS and user experience. It is fast, clean and easy to use. I think that most people trashing Windows Phone 7 have never used one for even a day.
I feel that Windows Phone is the middle of the road choice between Apple and Android right now: Apple is more locked down and Android is more open (and fragmented).
My wife has an Android and it *is* much more complicated. She is pretty tech savvy and it still took her some time to figure out some of the apps/features of the phone.
Then again, compared to the clean Metro tile interface, both iPhone and Android look horrendously busy to me now.
After all, Ballmer is expensive and simple. You can't expect him to grasp true elegance or real value.
Seriously folks, he likely uses a Blackberry, and agreed, never used an Android before. The only reason that he is saying these things is an attempt to cause confusion in the market, commonly known as FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt). This is all that Microsoft has to go on these days. Their browser market share is plummeting, and from what I've seen of their dev podcasts, their strategy to reclaim that share if through this MetroApp's bull#$@!, which essentially requires you to 1) Use a Windows PC, 2) Use IE. So all this talk is about raising doubts in the minds of consumers so that their whole MetroApp concept can gain traction and hopefully bring life to Windows8. Being that Microsoft still dominates the desktop market, this may be true. However, Microsoft has not chance in the smartphone market, and their strategy will fail unless they come up with IE for Android and iPhone.
Not even if they paid me.
MS has a history of abusing their market position. I can't imagine the nightmare their phones will be if they ever become the #1 OS for phones.
Every day, EVERY DAY I'm dealing with some kind Windows issue. Why would I also want that kind of user experience on my phone?
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
You know... because that one that happened like yesterday doesn't count... or honeycomb. Android updates have pretty much been every 6 months or so. And there is a HUGE step up between gingerbread and ICS and yet that only off by 4 months on he 6 month release schedule.
What I'm saying is that the software cycle isn't the culprit for the breadth of Android version out there. ICS will launch some time in December 2011. That's almost a full year between major releases for phones. So it's not like the upgrades are coming so fast carriers and manufacturers can't keep up. And yet there are still phones out there that won't see Gingerbread, let alone ICS. Contrast this with Windows Phone, where 100% of windows phones are eligible to upgrade to Mango.
So tell me, is there a cadre of you "you're shilling" cocksuckers out there, or is it more of a dynamic movement where various douchebags independently decide they want to go out and call everyone a shill/astroturfer?
And if there's a cadre of you out there, who is the head douchebag and how do you elect him? Is he the guy with the bear that grows furthest down his neck, or the fattest one with the most ironic black tee-shirt and the most baselessly smug grimace?
Ooooh don't we get irate. I was just trying to be polite. I didn't want to suggest that he might write the post spontaneously. You are right by the way, our chief is the head bear wrestler.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
Also, does it integrate well with Miami Vice? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
First, they can't do that without undermining the multi-billion-dollar investments they've already made.
Second, why would someone who's got an Android phone swap out the OS for WinPhone7? Even for free? WinPhone7 isn't even in the game.
Would you go into a little more detail please? I've been curious about the Zune HD and Windows Phone UIs, I'm mostly an iOS user now. The iOS interface has become cumbersome to me as I've installed more software. I'm now running 6 full screens of apps. I use folders, but I can only keep 12 apps in any one folder. I prioritize placement of my most used apps to the leftmost screens and use folders to group apps based on common purpose (socializing, listening to music, shopping, accounting, etc). I still end up with apps scattered around, and I still find myself navigating a lot more than I'd like in order to get to anything past the first screen. I can't think of a better solution on iOS. Typographical user interfaces appeal to me. I feel like I'm faster on them. That Start Menu in WP7 looks like it can become a cluttered mess really fast.
Typical RTFM attitude.
- Default calendar without search? (Google is a search company!)
Install another one.
I've installed 4. Each of them provides pieces of functionality that should be in any good calendar, but not found in the others.
- Default opt in for sharing every detail about your life with Google
Erm no. The default is to opt out on all Google phones. If it was changed to opt in then you can blame your handset manufacturer / carrier for that one. Not an Android issue.
You're talking nonsense. The minute you want to use calendar or contacts it prompts you to create a Google account and the defaults on several handsets I've seen are to share with Google.
- Need to root phone to get full functionality and remove garbage protected apps
Android doesn't ship with crapware, they are carrier / manufacturer added. Not an Android issue.
Android provides the mechanisms and locks down the phone such that most people don't know how to remove the crapware.
- Separate /data and /system partitions, plenty of crapware on the phone I got which I then removed, but no easy way to repartition.
I actually see this as a plus. Pretty much every other phone / mp3 player / other little thing I've ever updated manages to nuke everything including settings in the process. Also /system only holds the system so there's no need to repartition it. EVER. My phone shipped with less than 10mb free on /system and it hasn't changed in over 2 years of use.
Of course you see this as a plus.
In my world I'm running out of space on /data and have 32MB in /system I'd like to make use of.
- Incompatibility between versions of Android
What incompatibilities? I have over 230 apps on my phone. Not a single problem going from Froyo to Gingerbread or upgrading through a few different versions of Gingerbread. I heard of compatibility problems between Donut and Eclair but then what major OS revision doesn't break something, other than an OS that only provides you a hand full of APIs?
I have plenty of pet peeves but few are directed at Android, and most are like yours directed towards manufacturer stupidities and carrier crapware.
Go and take a look at Market and you'll find many applications that have been broken on certain phones. One app - a profile manager - had to remove options due to new security restrictions.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
I've installed 4. Each of them provides pieces of functionality that should be in any good calendar, but not found in the others.
Still an app related issue. You going to bag all of the apps or still direct your anger at the platform instead?
You're talking nonsense. The minute you want to use calendar or contacts it prompts you to create a Google account and the defaults on several handsets I've seen are to share with Google.
THIS is nonesense. You do NOT have to have a Google account to use contacts or the calendar. Or Google Maps, Google Navigation for that matter. Actually pretty much the only three apps on my phone that have not worked without a Google account was the Google Reader, the Google Marketplace and Google+. Otherwise your phone is fully functional if you click cancel whenever prompted to setup and account. Also most if not all phone ship with location services and features the like which share data to third parties switched off by default and prompt you to turn them on as well as display a disclaimer when you first start the phone (again something you can cancel out of and still have a fully functional phone.
So again, Google Phone does not ship with anything enabled by default and is functional (except for the above mentioned) without. You should try it.
Android provides the mechanisms and locks down the phone such that most people don't know how to remove the crapware.
Actually it doesn't, it only provides basic user access controls Linux style. The handset manufactures then add their own stuff as well as bend over backwards for the carriers to stay on their good side. There is no evil "tick this checkbox here to fuck over users" option in the Android system. But that's the beauty and the ugly face of Open source. The Beauty is you can install Cyanogen Mod. The Ugly is that it's open source so the manufacturers and carriers can do whatever the hell they want regardless of what Android ships to developers with.
Want an example of this, buy a Google Nexus S and bask in the glory of Android without crapware. I wonder if you blame Google for the state of Android then rather than the Carriers.
In my world I'm running out of space on /data and have 32MB in /system I'd like to make use of.
Sounds more like you need a phone without a pathetically small internal partition. There's tonnes of those around too.
Go and take a look at Market and you'll find many applications that have been broken on certain phones. One app - a profile manager - had to remove options due to new security restrictions.
Yes the alternative of APIs so limited that you wouldn't have a profile manager to begin with is soo much better. In other news I'm pissed that Commander Keen no longer works on Windows 7.
Quite frankly if you're using an app that doesn't work in a new system because the developer won't fix it that's a risk you run. I'd rather new features than put up with old Apps. Fruit Ninja was a classic. The team steadfastly refused to put multitouch support on Android for nearly a year after Eclair came out despite their iPhone version having it. Again not an Android issue but a lazy developer issue. The market place also supports versioning based on the OS version of the client so there's no reason for buggy apps other than lazyness or shoddy programming.
Short of a Walled Garden (tm) Google really couldn't have made it any more easier for developers. :thumbs up: