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Valve Begins Listing Linux Requirements For Certain Games On Steam
Deathspawner writes "Perhaps hinting at the fact that the official Steam for Linux launch isn't too far off, Valve has begun updating some game pages to include Linux system requirements. Some games don't list only Ubuntu as the main supported distro, with some listing Linux Mint and Fedora as well. A common theme is that Valve recommends you always use a 'fully updated' OS, regardless of which distro you use. And based on the system requirements laid out so far, it's safe to say that Serious Sam 3: BFE will undoubtedly be the most system-intensive game released at launch."
I'll let everyone else explain to you why.
Because having the freedom to choose is good.
Disclaimer: I avidly use Steam on OSX, but I'm constantly frustrated with it's buggy state. If the linux client proves to be better over time (with a good offering of games) I'll be upgrading my linux box and going that route.
Because some people like video games, and some people like Linux as a primary OS. There's a lot more overlap than you seem to think there is here, especially with people who would rather spend the money on a custom-built gaming rig than on a Mac Pro.
Why as a Linux user would I ever want to game on a Mac?
Windows is the best platform? Can I have whatever you are smoking?
Mac hardware is fine, but the OS quite frankly sucks. It tries so hard to not be unixy that it really repels me.
Because as a Unix system, OS X is terribly supported. They made awkward changes to break POSIX compatibility in their basic userland. Sure, we can iTunes all day, but when it comes down to actual work, Linux saves the day with by being a serious UNIX that's not trying to glam over its shortcomings.
Why would you want to game on an Android mobile device when there are already games on iPad?
Crimey
In short, it's not open enough, I think Apple over all sucks and won't support them, and lastly I'm not paying an extra $500+ for a fruit logo on my computer.
As a Mac user I know the feeling, but what would you even acquire by trying to game on Linux?
To put it simply, anyone serious about gaming won't.
However, there are people who run Linux (for whatever reason) who do play games (even if only on consoles/etc.), or would play games if it were possible. Valve's looking at this, and attempting to build a market there. Smart decision on their part, since Steam is at least potentially threatened by app stores on Mac and now Windows.
While I know of the advantages that Linked libraries give, such as being to update a huge set of programs at once, Allowing us coders to change how programs operate by changing the library source. However in the terms of Distributing software for different distributions it becomes a nightmare for the author. Because they can only really test a small percentage of these distributions, and who know if that unknown distribution uses that library or has the library requires to install it...
Systems like APT do a wonderful job of solving the problem for us. But not all distributions use APT and/or they may have a different set of repositories.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
The really, really short version: Because Windows sucks and Macs are expensive as fuck.
Because most Linux users don't want to be subjected to Apple's control of what you can and cannot do on your computer. Not to mention the Apple tax you pay for the hardware. Why do you even ask? What can anyone possibly stand to lose by making more software available on more platforms?
Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
Steam was released for Mac around May 12, 2010. To answer your question, I'd want to game on any platform I use daily. People use Linux for one reason or another and it's nice to be able to play a game or two.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_%28software%29#Mac_OS_X
If I were willing to put up with closed source proprietary bullshit I would just install Windows and then I could play every game ever made for a PC.
So if you want to do both unixy world and games why not Mac?.
1) Some people like Linux more than either of the proprietary OSes. This might be because they can configure Linux more, or because it's free, or because it's ideologically free, or because their friend told them to run it, or any of a thousand other reasons.
2) Why not? Many indie developers have already made Linux-compatible games that are also on steam. For instance, most of the Humble Indie bundles have had a requirement of running on Linux, and most of those games also provided steam keys.
3) Other people aren't a Apple shills/trolls?
If it turns out that my video card isn't good enough for Valve, then I can upgrade it. I can't do that with a Mac.
You can kid yourself all you like.
Snickering at Apple products is all about having at least half a clue and knowing that their products just don't cut it.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I'm going to go with cost as a primary one. That better support you refer to comes with a pretty hefty premium. Also, most Linux folks I'm imagine aren't real fans of Apple's walled garden approach when it comes to... well everything. Macs may be a closer blood relative to Linux with it being basically BSD under the hood, but ideologically they're a LONG way off.
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
Actually the mac standard terminal app is a great example at how shitty the UNIXy experience on OSX really is.
I would explain more, but if you think that is a unix experience it would be casting pearls before swine.
If I wanted to use a proprietary OS that pissed me off continually, why would I not just use windows?
easy answer #1:
no pirating is required, no "stealing" is required, and since the OS is free it's always going to be kept up to date.
Nothing other than Linux is free to keep up to date, and allows you to do so essentially for the life of the hardware.
I just got my beta invite yesterday -after specifying I was on Debian Sid (I never expected an invite since I'm not using Ubuntu). Will fiddle with it and get it running today, I'll definitely buy a few games just because.
Seems like they are close to releasing.
>If it turns out that my video card isn't good enough for Valve, then I can upgrade it. I can't do that with a Mac.
Almost all Mac machines are laptops (the Mac Mini and the iMac count as laptops as they use laptop components). When was the last time you saw an upgradeable laptop?
... what "fully updated" means. It certainly sounds like the author thinks that the latest distro and kernel is what's recommended.
It's not.
>Ubuntu 12.04
Valve is recommending the LTS and not 12.10, as well they should. Recommending the latest kernel and distro is asking for nothing but pain for everybody involved.
As far as the hardware recommendations go, they're not outrageous either.
--
BMO
The way I see it, this entire situation is hilarious. Us Linux people have been wanting something like this to happen for, well, forever, and it is finally happening. The lack of serious gaming on Linux has been one of the things holding it back on the desktop market. Now that we're finally getting that, and a serious contender to the Windows gaming hegemony is present, all anyone can do is cry and scream "not good enough dammit not good enough" because not every Steam title ever made will be available on release. I bet if the year of the linux desktop ever happens /. will be the first one to criticize it.
To offset political mods, replace Flamebait with Insightful.
The linked article shows how Amnesia (which is an excellent game, btw, at least part 1 is) will be supported on different platforms, but I'm pretty sure Amnesia already runs on those platforms. So it seems to me that Valve is supporting ubuntu, but will list other OS'es that happen to be supported by the (original) publisher?
Of course this is all deduction from rumors and two screenshots, so take cum grano salis....
The migration to Linux goes beyond simply bringing games to a new platform. It could be seen as an attempt by Valve to diversify in light of Microsoft's and Apple's closed app store platforms.
In the future, Windows and MacOS may only allow you to install new software packages through their stores. They may allow a small number of third party stores to exist in order to prevent anti-trust accusations, but chances are that they'll demand a cut of all sales.
No such issues of power consolidation currently exist in the Linux desktop ecosystem. I don't think the culture would allow it. Just look at how their cousins over in the Android mobile sector deal with it - a few taps in the system settings and you're free to install all the apps from 3rd party sites you want.
I surely hope Linux Mint catches on,, it is basically Ubuntu minus the bad decisions Canonical has made recently.
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
You can indeed upgrade the graphics cards on some laptops, and there are external graphics cards that can be used with others
More choices typically work out better for consumers. Sure, you can game on your WinPC, or OSX, or your Dreamcast or XBox or whatever, but arguing that enabling Linux gaming is a bad idea is terribly short sighted. More choices = more competition = better value for consumers.
I, for one, will likely sign up for steam/Linux and make sure to buy a game or three to see how it goes as I support this development. I sincerely hope Valve gets plenty rich doing this as it finally proves a business model that Loki Games (remember them?) couldn't do a decade or so ago. (I bought all their games)
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Or is the Debian open philosophy just too incompatible with the idea of Linux gaming?
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
My big question is if you have a TriBoot Linux /Mac /Win system short of the publisher being a Rotted Male Organ wiould you ahve to buy each platform seperately?? (or would your Steam Account load the "correct" platform each time from one purchase)
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
Maybe this is how it already works - but if it isn't here's an avenue I would investigate:
Shouldn't it be possible for Steam to build a hypervisor type environment? If they have a common hypervisor they port the game once to run in that environment. Then all they need to do is get their hypervisor running on Windows, *NIX, MAC, whatever.
There's definitely some additional processing overhead on this, but it seems that it would be a very efficient model once you have the hypervisor built. I would think you could probably push the specs/API/etc to the game publishers and have the game developer team adopt their game to the platform.
I don't know anything about how Steam works under the covers so maybe they're already doing this. I'm curious, but not enough to do the legwork.
I've just started using OS X (got a Retina MBP, great hardware), and it's way less convenient than Linux. I'm probably going to switch off it soon as some stuff is really starting to bug me - the main one being the lack of a good package manager. Sure, homebrew exists and it kind of does the job, but it's horrible compared to what I'm used to with Pacman and the AUR under Arch.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
Lack of FFM, lack of customizability, lack of middle click highlight and paste. The fact that for some reason applications do not live in /bin and for some reason do not end up in my PATH after installation.
The lack of decent package management is another huge pain. It means like windows many application have their own method of updating which is cumbersome compared to apt or yum.
Basically my biggest usability complaints stem from a lack of X11 conventions that I expect with a UNIXy experience. The whole OSX desktop seems to be designed to only have one window open at a time.
Because I run Linux, I like Linux, and I want to play games on Linux. Does there have to be a more complex answer than that?
DRM that works well isn't so bad
it's when it doesn't work that screws us
It improves hugely if you install Path Finder for explorer replacement.
You know, I always liked the system layout of the TI-99/4a
If you buy into all this hype about "the end of the desktop PC," it is quite reasonable to believe that MS envisions a convergence of the gaming desktop and xbox. Steam would be in a bad place, were that the case. Of course, there will be a million tiny pushes against such a trend, this being one of them. As long as a desktop (including gaming) PC can be had, MS will be forced to stay open. This is a good thing for everyone, especially Windows users who are more technical than your grandma, but less than a typical Linux user (since they have less ability to switch to an alternative OS). And macs don't count, they are just as susceptible, if not more, to this concern.
What exactly does that improve?
It looks like just another finder. I am not sure how that helps me. I am not really interested in some graphical file browser.
>If it turns out that my video card isn't good enough for Valve, then I can upgrade it. I can't do that with a Mac.
Almost all Mac machines are laptops (the Mac Mini and the iMac count as laptops as they use laptop components). When was the last time you saw an upgradeable laptop?
Good point you made there. Apple nigh abandoned its desktop users. Now I'm quite fond of desktops, and desktop gaming. And on my budget my next desktop won't be a mac, but probably/hopefully a linux-mint-debian (I hope I wrote that correctly) desktop. Not a laptop. Not a mac.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
I doubt it. Once you've ported the app to use OpenGL you've already done most the work for getting it to work on Linux or OS X. Compared to getting a Windows app to work natively on Linux, getting a Linux app to work natively on OS X is a walk in the park. Plus I imagine the game manufacturers will want to go after the Mac install base. Have you seen the number of Mac laptops in the average college classroom?
Serriously? FFS "Or is the Debian open philosophy just too incompatible with the idea of Linux gaming?" Quit acting like nerd complaining that the library only had DC and YOU only like Marvel. Be happy that they have comics there in the first place. Maybe they will expand in to that distro, give it some time.. maybe go back to making your "2013 will be the year of linux!" shirts
It's already there for anyone with beta access to the Linux client.
Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
Sad to see that they are not being distro-agnostic and standards-compliant. That would solve many, many problems.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
They opened up the trial and invited more people yesterday. I got my invite.
I have been playing games on Linux for years.
So Apple goes out of it's way to make machines that will quickly become doorstops. Thanks for clearing that up.
That's a great reason to avoid Apple right there.
A 5 year old Mac is stuck on light duty.
A 5 year old PC can have a (cheap) new GPU shoved in it and it will happily run current games on Steam.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Because not everybody owns a Mac?
Graphics card utilization is still rather far behind in OSX. There have been several tests comparing Windows and OSX for graphics card performance - such as this one (http://www.macworld.com/article/1155124/mac_windows_graphics.html). Because Linux is open source and is supported by avid enthusiasts, it is quite possible that the Linux port of Steam may begin to utilize the graphics card through the operating system more successfully than OSX does. Essentially, one shared barrier to the quality of gaming on UNIX operating systems - graphics support - is conceivably less detrimental to Linux than it is to OSX. I could see Steam for Linux surpassing Steam in a very short time. The upfront cost of the computer means that it is cheeper to get into gaming on Linux that it is on OSX, and Linux users have consistently shown (through the humble bundle) that they are willing to pay well for games.
Then you would have to put up with Windows.
Not all proprietary software is as bad as the crap that comes from Microsoft. Not all proprietary software is as prone to trap you either.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Ever hear of MXM?
Good-bye
I kid, I kid. But this in pretty cool.
Of course this day is brought down by RMS
Now if only there was theme to make Unity look like Pinterest I wouldn't have to convince my wife that Linux was better, she would just know.
Allow me to educate you with this link: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/lucid-gpu-graphics-thunderbolt-external,17520.html
No, no it can't. A two or three year old PC can have a new GPU and a memory upgrade and be semi-competant again. A five or six year old PC needs to be rebuilt from the bottom up.
I know, because I'm in the process of doing that right now. My Core 2 Duo + AMD 5570 has gone as far as it is going to go. It's had a GPU update and a memory refresh. It is now CPU limited in most games and buying a new GPU for this old box would be a waste of money.
Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - FDR
Why would you want to game on Linux
If a person is primarily interested in games then a Windows PC is probably the best choice. Hence the popularity of dual boot Windows/Linux rigs among Linux enthusiasts.
However games are sometimes a secondary consideration. A person may have chosen their computer and operating system for some non-gaming reason and that person may still want to play games. This is just as true for Linux as it is for Mac OS X.
Wine and Crossover are doable but they have a cost, an overhead. A fully native port will yield a better experience.
That said, the economics of a fully native Linux port has yet to be proven. If Linux game sales merely cannibalize Windows game sales then the developer will not really see a benefit. Valve may be in a unique position in that Steam for Linux will subsidize their ports.
Bullshit. Anything not-Microsoft is going to be just as hard to deal with because that's simply how Microsoft has engineered the situation. If you live in their little garden, it's going to be hard to leave. That's just the way it is.
It doesn't matter what the platform is.
On the other hands, most of the other platforms are not nearly as "exclusive" as Windows. They just don't have the gall of Microsoft or the longstanding desktop monopoly based on legacy DOS applications.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Because most Linux users don't want to be subjected to Apple's control of what you can and cannot do on your computer.
Mac users are not subject to such control. Mac OS X is an open platform. You are free to get apps straight from the developer, the Apple App Store is not required.
I'm not complaining, just asking a question.
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
Glen Beck also "is just asking questions"
As a Mac user I know the feeling, but what would you even acquire by trying to game on Linux? There is Macs for unixy world and it has better support than Linux will ever will. Of course Windows is the best platform but mostly because they have things like XNA and .NET. Microsoft has really played their game well. But why on Linux rather than Mac? While Crossover isn't supporting all the games it's at least better and many games have Mac Ports? So if you want to do both unixy world and games why not Mac?
The only good thing about this is the feeling that maybe Mac ports become more frequent too, but I'm not putting lot into that hope as far as Linux support goes.
Valve isn't the problem here - they've been good about bringing their AAA content to Mac and keeping it supported. I expect that they will continue to do the same with Linux.
The problem is that they are the distributors (through Steam) for a bunch of publishers that aren't Mac friendly. However, this gives them a reason to change, if they want to. Some of them can't afford to, some of them just won't and some of them will even be dickbags about it.
A lot of those same publishers are willing to be completely mediocre in their support and decide that supporting Windows is enough. Valve apparently looked at the situation, said "Windows 8 WTF" and is moving to expand their offerings so that maybe one day they can laugh in Ballmer's balloon-shaped face.
"My God...it's full of trolls!"
So you promise to update your application forever whenever a problem with such a library is found?
Do you promise not to complain when an update to the library breaks the game? Or when the game fails to run on your favored niche distro?
What about the GPL? If you statically link a GPL library to your code, I believe you must release source code for the whole shebang. Game developers aren't going to go for that.
That is why many key libraries are LGPL, so there is no such requirement when statically linking.
If you are planning on playing a lot of video games? Windows is the best platform... for now.
If valve can make steam for linux stable and convert most of its library? Then it will be time to reevaluate that statement.
I can choose to buy an overpriced computer from Apple or build my own with better specs for the same amount of mullah + doing my own wire management + getting the choice of a case (Lian Li makes some sweet products) and slap Ubuntu (I can choose from a large selection of distros) on there. I have the choice of using an nvidia card not AMD. This is important because of driver support. While people complained of white screens with Macs for Diablo 3, I was happily hacking away at monsters.With an SSD the system is installed in less than 10 minutes. Every piece of hardware I own works right out of the box as soon as it's plugged in.
I can play games with Crossover. I can play some, natively now, with Steam for Linux. I buy Indie bundles that include games which will run on Linux
The point is that I get the choice of both hardware and software, that is why I game on Linux, that is why I chose to support Codeweavers by not only becoming their customer but also and advocate and that is why I'm currently beta testing Steam for linux.
So the short answer to your question in the title is: "because I choose to"
Umm, no. Steam is situated to take advantage of a gaming convergent xbox + desktop combination with their big picture mode. Catch? It works with Linux.
Microsoft creating an exclusively console based environment and stopping desktop development would guarantee they fade away from relevance.
I think you two are both idiots.
It doesn't really matter what Debian thinks. Once the software is in your hands, you get to use it any way you like. That even includes running Oracle on it. None of this stuff is new at all.
If you want to run Steam with Debian, nothing is stopping you.
Your choices will dictate the nature of your experience. That's just life.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Because some people like video games, and some people like Linux as a primary OS. There's a lot more overlap than you seem to think there is here, especially with people who would rather spend the money on a custom-built gaming rig than on a Mac Pro.
I'm sure this won't win many windows users over to linux, but I can see this letting many linux desktop users finally delete their windows partition.
I'm probably not one of those people. I used to have a dual-boot setup at home, and if it weren't for gaming, I might have switched completely over to linux. But for the games I needed windows (I *sorta* got the games working with wine, but they were glitchy and slower), and once I installed cygwin on windows, I never *needed* to boot up linux, so I went back to windows only. With this development, I'm considering giving the linux desktop another try.
The GeForce GTX 670 in my 4 year old Mac Pro disagrees with you. Drivers included in Mac OS X 10.8 by default.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Sorry but you aren't doing it right. My 2 year old desktop runs every graphic intensive game I've thrown at it on max settings. It sounds like you are doing a poor job selecting motherboards and possibly gpus if you need an upgrade at 2-3yrs. With a motherboard it isn't enough to buy something expensive. You need to be forward looking and buy something that has the ability to run not just the affordable chips and cards you are actually buying but can also run the top of the line just released yesterday and stupidly expensive gear. That will get you the latest sockets and ports.
The same is true of GPU's. Spending top dollar will generally get you something good but there is usually a card out there that they screwed up and made too fast. The newest model will be a gimp'd version of the old model instead of a higher performance card. The market usually catches on eventually
For a lot of people who are serious gamers and actually computer literate, Windows is very grudgingly tolerated simply because it is the platform with the most titles. It has zero other redeeming features. It's less stable, poorer memory management and the core OS been demonstrated time and again to be about 25% more bloated than the Linux kernel. There are a lot of people who live and work in Linux and do not want to have to split their time between two OSes to have a non shitty work environment at home and be able to game as well. People also want the developers to have powerful tools. Directx is a bloated piece of proprietary shit that developers cannot look through to debug their code, most of it is guess work and trial and error to figure out what the most optimal means of doing something with it is. Opensource graphics libraries and opensource graphics drivers will make better faster games. Less black boxes means better understanding means better code means better code.
There is no memory shortage. yes I have heard of XFCE. Go away.
Out of curiosity, is there a list of games that are expected to be released on Linux? Is it everything that says "SteamPlay" or some subset therein?
hmm... uninformed or trolling?
1. "Apple's control of what you can and cannot do on your computer"
Right, just the other day I was thinking, "gee, it would be really nice if I could run non-Mac applications, too bad I can't compile Qt and use a non-native environment." With the ability to compile there is no "controlling what 'you' can and cannot do".
2. "the Apple tax you pay for the hardware"
Man! That always burns me up to. I mean, once I spec out a system from somewhere else that actually meets the same specification why do the prices always line up? I can't figure that one out either.
3. "What can anyone possibly stand to lose by making more software available on more platforms?"
Well, you have a point. I mean, its not like netflix is avoiding a linux release of its client, or Microsoft doesn't provide its Office Suite on Linux. No company or consortium would have anything to lose by making more software available on more platforms.
You know, I always liked the system layout of the TI-99/4a
Me too. Having to jam everything through a 4K window made you write a lot more efficient code, instead of what we get today when people have free memory to waste on calculating frames that never get composited or displayed.
So his post is that a 2 year old desktop can easily be upgraded but a 5-6 year old one cannot and you jump in and say he's doing it all wrong that your 2 year old computer is easily upgradeable.
Either your idiot, you don't know the difference between 2 and 5 or can't read. You decide.
"Of course Windows is the best platform " For what? Causing you to try and lobotomize yourself with a shotgun in the mouth?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I have a lot of indie games in my steam library that support linux. I will be VERY interested to check this out once it hits general release, and those developers start pushing out the linux versions on steam. Will be nice to start losing my last few reasons for choosing windows as my primary OS.
Warning, knife is sharp. Please keep out of children.
"Man! That always burns me up to. I mean, once I spec out a system from somewhere else that actually meets the same specification why do the prices always line up? I can't figure that one out either."
Cool. Price me out a Mac Laptop with a non Intel GPU for under $1000. Naw I'll make it easier, under $1500 (prices are Canadian, but I'm not sure US prices would help you much)
I can't find one, so please point me in the right direction, your obviously better at this. Case in point my 13" laptop with nVidia GPU and an i5 processor was $800... Find me that. And if you do find one for $1500, explain what features makes it worth 2x the cost.
Thanks.
Better tell Apple that, then.
Seriously... I don't own a single Apple device. I don't consider myself to be in their target market, and I object to paying the prices they're asking for their stuff when I can get gear that's just as good for less. But would it kill you to actually check their fucking website to see if they're still selling it, before you spout off that it's a dead line?
The problem is that they are the distributors (through Steam) for a bunch of publishers that aren't Mac friendly.
Take it a step farther, and they're not friendly to macs. There are plenty of titles available for Windows on Steam and Mac on the App Store, but not as SteamPlay for whatever reason.
(the Mac Mini and the iMac count as laptops as they use laptop components)
No they don't. The iMac and the Mac Mini are desktop computers (or computers in the fashion of desktops), because that's their use case. Typically, when one buys an iMac or a Mac Mini, the competing products they're looking at are the HP, Dell, etc. DESKTOP lines. Likewise, someone buying a Macbook will look at other Laptops.
I really wanted to change my sig to something witty, but all I could come up with is this.
Which Core 2 Duo do you have, because I'd be surprised if a E6850 slightly overclocked couldn't handle the vast majority of the latest games just fine, and the E6850 came out 5.5 years ago, and wasn't very expensive when it was released ($260). Of course, the quads were also available at that time, like the Q6600 and Q6700, not to mention the X6800 which is 6.5 years old.
Sounds like you got a 5-6 year old bargain PC and coupled it with a $80 video card ($80 at release!). I'm not surprised you are having some serious performance issues in games today.
He's right, though. A C2D/C2Q plus a more up-to-date card than the (*snicker*) 5570 he has now can handle most things you throw at it with ease.
He just said "It's already been upgraded, and upgrading it more would be a waste of money because I hold the idea that the CPU isn't powerful enough."
"Dead product" means that their hardware is literally two generations behind, and they're still selling it for the most exorbitant prices. Not that they're not selling it right now.
Quality posting.
I want to game on linux because linux is by far my favorite of the big three.
Windows isn't good enough because it is so full of inconsistencies and poorly-implemented features that I find it difficult to do the things I want to do (note: I do a lot more with my computer than the average consumer), because it tends to build up glitches and other cruft over time to the point of almost requiring periodic re-installs, because keeping it malware-free is practically a part-time job, because bug fixes depend on the whim of a single corporation, and because that corporation's anti-competitive and anti-compatibility policies have repeatedly and significantly hampered progress in the software and hardware used by most of the world.
OSX isn't good enough because it is rather expensive to buy and to upgrade, because the hardware it officially requires is likewise, because I find the user interface choices to be oversimplified to the point of constant frustration, because bug fixes depend on the whim of a single corporation, and because that corporation's anti-compatibility and anti-openness policies are unacceptably hostile to users trying to use the things they buy.
Linux has none of those problems. It has a few of its own problems, but those that I run in to are usually solved with a bit of reading and exchanging information others. It's even getting better for non-savvy users (my mom mainly uses Unity and Firefox) and specialists (e.g. color management, media editing).
Overall, I simply have a much better time and get a good deal more utility from my computer using linux. That's why I made the switch a few years ago, and I've never wanted to go back. This has been so much of a win for me that not even games are enough to make me dual-boot. If I can't get it running on linux, I don't bother playing it.
not if they're sane, we're at the tail end of the xbox and ps3's life cycle and they're really showing their age
This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
That behavior is braindead.
Let's back this up...
If you are planning on playing a lot of PC video games? Windows is the best platform.
People think that is a trollish thing to say, but it's absolutely true. Windows has the best driver support, performance and variety of games. Let's not tie 'PC vs console' into this.
/* No Comment */
Yeah, not any more. Go look at the latest iMac teardown from ifixit.
^I'm with stupid.^
I've got a very over clockable E2200 on a rig that old and I'm no where near CPU bound nor have I had to actually OC the CPU. Occasional GPU upgrades have kept me in high resolution on my 24" LCD for years. A C2D should have a lot of life left in it.
I prefer MacPorts over Homebrew. Homebrew has some good goals, such as using OS-included libraries when available, but it's really a house of cards. Meanwhile, MacPorts works reliably and lets you override stuff at a lower level. I used to like Fink, but kept running into issues. It might be better now. *shrugs*
^I'm with stupid.^
With the ability to compile there is no "controlling what 'you' can and cannot do".
Except you need to explicitly tell OS X Mountain Lion to let you run 3rd party apps. Also, control means hardware AND software, and you certainly aren't in control of your Mac when it comes to hardware.
I mean, once I spec out a system from somewhere else that actually meets the same specification why do the prices always line up? I can't figure that one out either.
Well that is obviously just a lie.
Well, you have a point. I mean, its not like netflix is avoiding a linux release of its client, or Microsoft doesn't provide its Office Suite on Linux
What a dumb comment to make. Netflix currently can't release a Linux client because they need the DRM of Silverlight, which isn't available on Linux, and Microsoft publishes Office on Mac, so... http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products Plus I was referring to consumers, who could only benefit from more software being available on more platforms.
Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
MacPorts isn't *bad*, but it's certainly not apt.
^I'm with stupid.^
I use a Mac at work and have an old iMac on my desk, next to my Linux desktop. Apple restricts non-appstore apps from accessing notification center or iCloud document storage. Some people think that's the thin end of the wedge and some people think Apple will go this far and then no further. As for me, I'm just not putting all my eggs in one basket. If OS X keeps being open enough, I'll keep using it. Otherwise, I'll switch to Linux full time.
^I'm with stupid.^
"Either your idiot, you don't know the difference between 2 and 5 or can't read."
I believe your problem is the third. I said my 2 year old desktop doesn't need upgraded, not that it can be upgraded. And it will be upgradable at the 5-6 yr mark.
So, if his desktop NEEDS an upgrade at 2-3yrs he is doing it wrong. If his desktop can't be upgraded at 5yrs he is doing it wrong. You on the hand weren't just wrong but a dick besides.
FACT: mac owners have higher incomes than windows or linux users.
[citation needed]
Even if what you say is true, it's somewhat interesting that on in the past, Linux sales on humblebundle.com have been pretty close to Mac sales, and Linux users consistently pay 10 - 20% more when given the choice.
^I'm with stupid.^
I don't know what all the excitement is all about? Stream sells games they don't make them. Valve make a few games and they own Stream. So Games will still have to be made to support Linux. Nothing has changed as far as Games supporting Linux And isn't the Linux community against DRM? ALL Games sold by Stream contain DRM that i am aware of that's why they are popular with tital makers . And from the latest Update which i refused to agree to i was shut out of ALL Stream Games. So i was forced to agree just to be able to pay the games i bought. This is hardly something i thnk the Linux community will like at least thats what they have been saying for the last 12 years or so.
Jack of all trades,master of none
2x slower?
Is that the same thing as being "twice as cold" or "twice as thin"?
You don't measure slowness, you measure speed.
You don't measure coldness, you measure temperature.
You don't measure thinness, you measure thickness.
I'm not a big gamer, but the ones I do play, mainly 0Ad, Oil Rush, & Civ5 all work fine on my Q6600 (no overclock).
But mainly I enjoy having a bunch of applications open all at the same time without any problems: Netbeans, postgreSql admin & server, Gimp, LibreOffice, Firefox with a bunch of tabs, etc... and being able to play a quick game of 0ad without closing out of anything. Not bad for a 6 year old proc & mobo.
I've added memory, and updated the video card twice, it's an AMD 5350 now, but the most measurable upgrade was actually the SSD drive. Running Enlightenement DE also helps, at least when compared to Gnome3 or Unity, maybe only a little better or the same as Gnome2.
Here ya go...
--- Keep the choice with the user..
You're the uninformed one, troll. It has always come out that a PC wins on price vs a perfectly-matched Mac.
It's redone on 4chan's /g/ every fucking day, side by side up to date price and spec comparisons.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Please. We've got wrappers from O*L to DX, and the performance hit is so negligible in proper implementations as to be absolutely laughable.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I'm interested to know what make & model that laptop is.
My car doesn't haul things as good as a truck, cars suck!
If you need to haul something, then yes cars do suck.
If you want to play games, then Linux sucks.
If you want freedom and choice in software, Windows sucks.
If you want freedom and choice in hardware, Apple sucks.
Everything sucks for some purpose or for some people.
Seriously, you are a tool h4rr4r, it gets old after a while.
What gets old is people saying something sucks because it sucks for them.
I use Linux as my primary OS because I like it. I use Windows as my gaming OS because some games I like don't run on Linux/Wine well or at all. Neither OS sucks (for me) for the purpose I use it, but they do suck (for me) for the purpose I use the other.
--- Keep the choice with the user..
Linux, as an almost exclusively business OS, is a "serious" UNIX. It's nearly absent desktop penetration is a testament to that.
I hate grammar Nazi's.
Really, an order of magnitude more? Entry-level Mac Pro, quad core 3.2 Ghz Zeon, 6 GB of RAM, 1 TB HD, and ATI Radeon HD 5770 costs $2,500. I'd love to buy that at the $250 price-point. Please share.
Over priced? Yes, but numbers have meaning.
I hate grammar Nazi's.
Since I heard they were doing Steam for Linux I can't get it out of my head that they should build their own distro. They should probably pursue a similar strategy than the one Google did with Android.
They could partner with hardware manufacturers and certify PCs or console-like devices that they are compliant with the distribution hardware requirements, maybe setting several levels of hardware support. So you can buy a 'level 3' Steam PC, and be sure that a certain number of games run on it without issues.
I would probably buy something like that if the experience was hassle-free enough.
... support Slackware.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
It would be time to re-evaluate that statement... Trust me on that one (Do keep in mind I port titles... ;-D).
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Macs cost substantially more than PCs, so I would be shocked if this weren't the case. Buying a Mac, however, will increase your income as effectively as XL condoms with increase your penis size.
I hate grammar Nazi's.
I highly doubt the higher income is due to the platform. That's like saying Benz owners make way more money than Chevy owners. It's a no brainier.
--- Keep the choice with the user..
Ha, got myself a phenom ii x6@2700(3200 turbo core), ddr3 8gb stick(up to 32gb ram), 512GB Hard Drive, radeon hd 6570 1gb(shitty 128 bit bus), asrock motherboard am3+ socket, large heatsync and fan for cpu, for $420 a few month's ago. and it runs excellent especially vmware. Intel was too damn expensive.
one problem i have with linux is that it's too internet dependent. I can't find some full application installers(.rpm or .deb)which i need for the linux you have to either download it through repositories or compile the source code which is especially a pain if you can't upgrade the dependencies with no internet connection. But with windows, I can download and save in storage; vlc, gimp, blender, inkscape, etc... and install it later on without any internet connection needed. Especially when you have TWC, comcast, dsl providers fucking people through the ass for their shitty ass internet services. Lucky that I have FIOS in my neighborhood, but might be moving out of the state in a few month's.
But, I find that the linux distros i tried like opensuse, ubuntu, mint, all run faster than windows 7 and 8, and especially firefox which fly's on linux and runs slow on windows. I would be happy if steam got activision to bring cod games over to linux especially cod4mw1 which i play the most. I was able to run netflix on ubuntu but failed in mint 13 kde, which is fine and will solve it. But if there is a netflix native and games are coming to linux than there is no need to use windows full time anymore, i will just run windows in a virtualbox for development.
Directx is a bloated piece of proprietary shit that developers cannot look through to debug their code, most of it is guess work and trial and error to figure out what the most optimal means of doing something with it is. Opensource graphics libraries and opensource graphics drivers will make better faster games. Less black boxes means better understanding means better code means better code.
Realistically though anyone seriously gaming on linux is likely to be using either NVIDIA or ATIs propietary drivers. IIRC both of those replace the mesa implementation of opengl with their own.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Yeh seven years ago maybe, when I left Linux for the Mac. Still UNIX, but with an actual, usable desktop GUI as well as terminal. When I got into Linux in the mid 90's, it seemed the sky was the limit - and the bazaar would beat the cathedral at anything. But X11, Gnome and KDE just got worse. I realized that I was spending twice as much time getting stuff working as I did actually using it. I'm still enthusiastic, and think Linux and BSD are great, but I've put them where they belong: on headless or virtualized servers. It seems to me that what the bazaar lacks and the cathedral has is a vision about what it is all going to be in the end (opblig xkcd: http://xkcd.com/927/ ) Now: I'm not buying any more games on Steam. I'm using the app store exclusively (unless it's Elite IV). Disclaimer: 4th Cognac.
Man! That always burns me up to. I mean, once I spec out a system from somewhere else that actually meets the same specification why do the prices always line up? I can't figure that one out either.
Good question.
The answer is that apple avoids making "normal" computers. So trying to find a machine that is perfectly equivilent to a mac requires (if it's possible at all, afaict noone makes a direct equivalent to the retina macbooks) means you end up in expensive speciality product lines.
OTOH that is not how people normally buy a computer. They start with a list of requirements and then look for machines that meet it. And if you do things that way round apple machines generally come out much more expensive.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
I'm in the situation of having ditched Windows completely (when my XP was killed by ZBOT, and then when Windows 7 was quite slow and looked ugly when set up with a regular task bar). One of the main issues was a dual boot doesn't work for me. Why reboot?, why maintain two OSes and their updates, why lose the browser's state, why quit what I was doing etc. I would just run Windows 99.9% of the time, could always alt-tab out of a game or quit it and get back to Firefox, hell I had command line ssh and scp under Windows, ssh server, a slow sshfs variant, wget, less, terminal emulator etc. as long with most of the open source software : gimp, openoffice.org, abiword, evince, ffmpeg (in ffdshow) etc.
Linux gaming, and real games at that (NOT openarena and nexuiz, and I don't like Wesnoth) would allow me to gain gaming back, at the moment I can only play card games on the Internet and run SNES emulation with a sound bug I didn't have on Windows.
Windows sucks with multiple screens, or even multiple actions (antivirus puts a fucking big window in the middle of your game screen to tell you it's downloaded updated definitions - or the entire box reboots without warning because MS Windows has done an update and told you about it in a hidden window). To me that's why it's not a fitting platform for gaming and why I think a console or linux would be superior if it can actually run the software.
If you are planning on playing a lot of Microsoft Windows compatible video games then Microsoft Windows is often the best platform. Sometimes it sucks and is not even the best platform for Microsoft Windows compatible video games - poor handling of multiple screens, poor multitasking due to background tasks, and unexpected sudden breaking of the fourth wall with antivirus and updates.
How's that for a fix? I see that as one reason why steam is moving to other platforms, to get more solid console like behaviour instead of occasional reminders that the computer is doing other stuff.
The "driver" argument got old and worn out about a decade or more ago when Nvidia started releasing drivers for everything that moves.
If it turns out that my video card isn't good enough for Valve, then I can upgrade it. I can't do that with a Mac.
I am sorry to read that you couldn't figure out how to change a Mac video card!
I've upgraded my Mac Pro's video card twice. Let me know if you need help figuring out how to do it!
I just popped a new hard drive in a 6 year old imac (replacement for one that broke) which is still someone's daily business machine and it's still running fine. That's the good part of starting off with systems with pretty decent specs.
We don't believe in radical loony monotheistic religions from the middle east -- we're Christians.
Turn off automatic updates. I have two screens and I do just fine when booted in Windows (7, never had duel screens with XP), even while gaming. Hell, I like it while gaming as I can have the keyboard shortcuts or whatever else I want on the one screen while playing on the other. You may have to set your game to windowed mode and maximize it on one screen to get it to not try to use both screens, but so? It's not a deal breaker for me to actually have to make an effort to do something I want.
Windows sucks with multiple screens...
Again, just because you think something sucks, doesn't make it suck.
TLDR: Don't be lazy, you'll miss out on a lot...
--- Keep the choice with the user..
Speaking as someone with actual experience in this - DirectX is a monumental improvement over OpenGL; there's more to it than just being able to look at the underlying code (and frankly, 90% of both are just shims to pump commands into the drivers which is where the real magic happens -- drivers which generally tend to be very closed.)
Start with;
- A (arguably) better shading language (HLSL vs GLSL - I tend to find HLSL is easier to work with)
- A scenegraph representation that is not built around a 1980's pre-acceleration stack based renderer. (e.g. Objects are represented as full OO objects - complete with materials, rather than a matrix pushed onto a stack followed by a few vertex buffer array calls)
- A suite of excellent debugging utilities - which give you useful feedback (looking at the code != the value of a good debugger suite)
Leaving the 'free software' arguments aside, DirectX is better - by virtue of the fact that it's kept up to date with modern programming techniques. OpenGL needs to be replaced or at least significantly overhauled -- something which Khronos has not in the past actually been willing to do. OpenGLES improves the spec marginally, but it really needs a replacement to be on par with the ease and power DirectX offers you with far less effort.
That said; if anyones doing things at the DX/OGL level, they probably need to be hit over the head - anyone serious is using one of the many decent engines out there.
#!/bin/csh cat $0
If I've seen it suck on a couple of dozen machines so I know it sucks. Even now the multi-screen behaviour in Win7 sucks in comparison to the Matrox window management addon for Win2k onwards and the more recent Nvidia one. It sucks so badly you need to fix it with twelve year old software!
When I use a word it means what I say it means, nothing more, nothing less.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Game-devs and publishers aren't forced to use Steam's CEG. Many games are using it just like a repository, i.e. you can copy the game-folder out of the Steam-folder and uninstall Steam, and the game will still work.
A non-exhaustive list: http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_steam/page1
Only 8 people own the latest ones, so that dont count.
Only after a couple of years when the 99% can afford to buy a new imac will that be a problem. I'm still very happy with my horribly out of date 2011 27" imac.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
While the usual convention is to measure speed, I wouldn't say it's non-intuitive to measure slowness. Slowness would be the reciprocal of speed, so if it requires twice the time, then it's twice as slow.
In a similar vein, in the US, people seem to measure fuel performance by mileage (miles/gallon), whereas in Canada, it's measured by fuel consumption (litres/100km). So better fuel performance is a higher number in the US, but lower in Canada, the advantage of the latter being that it is additive (you can take two numbers and average them, unlike mileage).
So that addresses your other examples: thinness can be measured in pages/inch (in the case of paper, say) or # rack servers/metre, etc. And coldness would be Kelvin[to the power of]-1, of course.
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
general purpose computer code no longer needs to be efficent for the computer, it is more important that it is clear to build, understand, maintain and modify by the human mind.
You don't even need beta access to run TF2. The steam.deb is fairly easy to find and you can bypass the beta check by starting the client with "steam steam://open/games/" from a terminal window
Being in the beta gets you access to extra features but there isn't a huge difference in what I could do before I received the beta invite to now.
A game has objectives and is competitive, anything else is just play
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