Slashdot Mirror


Instagram Wants To Sell Users' Photos Without Notice

DavidGilbert99 writes "Many Instagram users have reacted angrily to a proposed change to the apps terms of service by owner Facebook, which would give the social network 'perpetual' rights to all photos on Instagram, allowing it to sell the photos to advertisers without notice — or payment to the user. The new policy will come into effect on 16 January, just four months after Facebook completed its $1bn acquisition of Instagram. It states that Facebook has a right to distribute any content posted on Instagram without paying the user royalties:" Also worth reading Declan McCullagh's take on it.

313 comments

  1. Instagram Bubble by smittyoneeach · · Score: 5, Funny

    Instagram bubble
    Like your photos are stubble
    That they'll just whisk away
    And save you the trouble.
    Burma Shave

    --
    Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    1. Re:Instagram Bubble by pinfall · · Score: 5, Funny

      So long, and thanks for all the pics!

    2. Re:Instagram Bubble by smittyoneeach · · Score: 2

      Your Hitchhiker's Guide reference is appreciated, Mr. Pesce.

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    3. Re:Instagram Bubble by noh8rz10 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Tis is the death of instant ram. No way any celebrities will allow Facebook to profit from their likenesses. Without Bieber, Selena Gomez, and even Playboy Bunnies (link is sfw), there will be nobody driving the service from the top, and the twihards etc will follow their idols to a new platform. Twitter pics for example? Classic Facebook blunder.

    4. Re:Instagram Bubble by Dr.+Tom · · Score: 1

      Something smells like fish.

    5. Re:Instagram Bubble by noh8rz9 · · Score: 0

      Although FB will make a bundle if they get the URL Facebook_selfshot.xxx. Btw instant ram s.b. instagram. Autocorrect fail!

      --
      let's have a conversation! let me know what you think.
    6. Re:Instagram Bubble by alen · · Score: 4, Funny

      are you kidding?

      celebs using twitter or instagram is a direct connection to fans. unlike 30 years ago when the only connection was a fan club you had to pay for or the trade magazines

      unlike most geeks, celebs aren't crazy like my dad and don't care if someone makes money off them in a symbiotic business relationship.

    7. Re:Instagram Bubble by msauve · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "celebs aren't crazy"

      +1 funny

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    8. Re:Instagram Bubble by lexa1979 · · Score: 1

      Instagram's the fisher price of the internet...

    9. Re:Instagram Bubble by gagol · · Score: 2

      I am sure you would like to see your face endorsing any products in exchange of a service worth almost nothing...

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    10. Re:Instagram Bubble by Spamalope · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Coming soon:

      Take a good picture eating out with friends at an Italian restaurant? FB's marketing dept. will call the owner selling a FB marketing campaign based on your image. Later, FB ads with your picture will say 'Smitty loves Tony's Italian restaurant, you will too.'

      The process will be automated using geo-tags in the images and the popularity of images posted.

      Thank you for further crowd sourcing the last of the marketing materials we used to pay for...

      If they use facial recognition to identify and use only pictures of instagram users, doesn't that free them from any worries about model releases given these contract terms?

    11. Re:Instagram Bubble by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Funny

      Something smells like fish.

      Why do you guys keep reminding me of old jokes, which I'm then compelled to share?

      The snake tempts Eve, who shares the apple with Adam before having wild, passionate sex. A while later God walks up and Adam's wearing an apron made of fig leaves.

      "You ate the apple, didn't you?" God asks accusingly.

      "Uh, yeah, we... uh, well, she kinda talked me into it."

      "Ok, where is she?"

      "She's down at the river washing up."

      God says "Damn, I'll never get the smell out of all those fish!"

    12. Re:Instagram Bubble by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Scarier yet, once this is all automated the advertisement might show up within minutes after taking the picture, while you're still at the restaurant.

    13. Re:Instagram Bubble by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      What celeb actually uses their twitter or instagram?

      90% of them pay someone else to manage their "direct connection" with their fans. As in, does not exist.

    14. Re:Instagram Bubble by operagost · · Score: 5, Funny

      ... like his dad. Really, we have no idea what his dad's like. He might be into things that would make Lindsay Lohan's freckles blush.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    15. Re:Instagram Bubble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just wait until your parents, friends, etc see you advertising gay porn.

    16. Re:Instagram Bubble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      What celeb actually uses their twitter or instagram?

      90% of them pay someone else to manage their "direct connection" with their fans.

      Another one of poetmatt's greatest hits!

      Clearly, you're aware that some (at least 10% of them, by your count) DO "actually use their twitter or instagram."

      So why don't YOU tell US what celebs actually use their twitter or instagram? You seem very knowledgeable - it's not as if someone can just invent meaningless bogus statistics out of thin air! That never happens. Well, not more than, like, 3% of the time, tops.

      Tard.

    17. Re:Instagram Bubble by Americano · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Riiiiight. Instagram is going to hire marketing people whose sole job is to scan through the photo streams of literally tens of millions of active users to find the "absolutely killer" photos you took at Applebee's last week, and propose a worldwide marketing campaign featuring YOUR photos, showing how badly-lit, badly-focused, poorly dressed, average-to-downright-ugly people get down with some Jalapeno Poppers, Loaded Fiesta Nachos, and Shrimp Slammers in grainy cell phone images.

      Except that would be the worst business idea ever.

      What's going to happen is, Applebee's is going to make an ad buy on Facebook - "We're opening a new restaurant in Bohunk, Iowa. We'd like to target people ages 21-50 in the area with the news, and let them know we have a special "$17 dollar SUMMER SHRIMP SLAMMER SPECIAL!" Facebook & Instagram, when targeting you for the ad, will find people in your network who have taken photos at other Applebee's (geo-tagged, or checked-in, or #-tagged, likes, +1's, etc.), and put an ad using a photo of your friend, Mike, (or maybe one he took at Applebee's some unfortunate evening), with ad copy saying, "Your friend Mike loves Applebee's too! Why not get together at our new Bohunk location, and enjoy our new $17 SUMMER SHRIMP SLAMMER SPECIAL?!"

    18. Re:Instagram Bubble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      are you kidding?... ...unlike most geeks, celebs aren't crazy like my dad and don't care if someone makes money off them in a symbiotic business relationship.

      "Some or all of the service may be supported by advertising revenue. To help us deliver interesting paid or sponsored content or promotions, you agree that a business or other entity may pay us to display your username, likeness, photos (along with any associated metadata), and/or actions you take, in connection with paid or sponsored content or promotions, without any compensation to you"

      That sounds like a one-way street to me. Unless, if by symbiotic, you mean in a totally Goa'uld way.

    19. Re:Instagram Bubble by tompaulco · · Score: 2

      I am sure you would like to see your face endorsing any products in exchange of a service worth almost nothing...
      Or even better, products that you don't approve of. I can just see the popes face in an ad now. "When I have sex, I always use Trojan brand condoms!".

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    20. Re:Instagram Bubble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Oi, thanks for all the great ideas! We'll get right on those.

      -- Joe Applebee.

    21. Re:Instagram Bubble by ethorad · · Score: 1

      To be fair, the pope has probably never had sex without using a Trojan

    22. Re:Instagram Bubble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      apple? ;)

    23. Re:Instagram Bubble by sneakyimp · · Score: 3, Funny

      All your photo are belong to us!

    24. Re:Instagram Bubble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a good point. So what users of this service need is a new filter that places words such as "not allowed in ads" over the pictures. Not that it will be legally binding mind you, but what advertiser would want their ad copy next to a picture that has that over it?

    25. Re:Instagram Bubble by ifiwereasculptor · · Score: 5, Funny

      That name has always bugged me. Wouldn't you expect a Trojan to be something that covertly carries a multitude of soldiers to the inside of the gates and then releases them? That's the absolute last thing you want from a condom.

    26. Re:Instagram Bubble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      symbiotic

      What part of this isn't parasitic?

      1. I take a picture.
      2. I upload it to ZOMG THE CLOWOWOWOWOUDDDD!!! XD THANKS INSTAGRAM!!! XD XD! LOLOLOL!!!
      3. No service is actually offered by this "THE CLOUD" decision, since I could have gotten the exact same effect from e-mailing the pictures to my friends.
      3. They make money off of it, and don't give me any.

    27. Re:Instagram Bubble by GNious · · Score: 1

      Fluffy - 100% real

    28. Re:Instagram Bubble by Americano · · Score: 2

      In what way is you choosing to use someone's servers & service to upload, store, and share your photos, parasitic on the part of the service you've elected to use?

    29. Re:Instagram Bubble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing would stop Instagram/Facebook from privately agreeing to more restrictive usage rules with 'important' people if they believe it to be in their own interest. Where there's a will, there's a lawyer with a contract that provides the way.

    30. Re:Instagram Bubble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What is happening, is that automation allows AD's to quickly get top 50 pictures of specific area and then make a great ad from those.

      You don't need to scan hundreds of photos or anything, you have computers to do that!

    31. Re:Instagram Bubble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't panic. The new terms are really mostly harmless...

    32. Re:Instagram Bubble by Genda · · Score: 1

      Have you personally interviewed each alter boy? You can't go around making these snap judgements... ;-)

    33. Re:Instagram Bubble by Genda · · Score: 1

      In a world where whistling the wrong tune in public could get you facing a lawyer for public performance of a copyrighted song, one expects that control of IP would cut both ways. Instead, you put you personal IP on a site that promises it will never crap on you, your IP, or your privacy, only to have that site sold to someone else who gleefully turns around and says your IP is now my IP to use as I please, to profit me and only me as I please, and if you don't want to that cute picture of your baby getting a bath used in a brochure by Russian Child Pornographers, then you better get your crappy pictures off my site in about 10 minutes.

      You're right, this isn't parasitic, parasites serve a useful purpose in an ecosystem. This is a plague. A blight. An oozing running sore on the human condition, a pustulant rash that occurs at the intersections of power, hubris, and blind avarice. It's possible this is just one more ridiculously heavy handed EULA that explains you have no rights and are less than human in the eyes of the service provider, and that there are no other evil machinations in the works. Then let Facebook please come out and say as much, because from here it looks like the Mother of all uninvited ass rapings, and only a fool would leave any more than a snapshot of dog vomit on the site.

    34. Re:Instagram Bubble by Americano · · Score: 2

      In a world where whistling the wrong tune in public could get you facing a lawyer for public performance of a copyrighted song

      This has happened... when?

      a site that promises it will never crap on you, your IP, or your privacy

      That sure wasn't Instagram - their Terms of Use have ALWAYS granted Instagram a worldwide, royalty free license to use as they see fit. Facebook has made it more explicit, but Instagram never made these promises you seem to think they have.

      your IP is now my IP to use as I please, to profit me and only me as I please, and if you don't want to that cute picture of your baby getting a bath used in a brochure by Russian Child Pornographers, then you better get your crappy pictures off my site in about 10 minutes

      No, they're saying "if you're not happy with that, you should stop using this free service I'm providing you and cancel your account." Their online help indicates that submitting a request to close your account will result in permanent and unrecoverable deletion of all data you have submitted to the site. If they refuse to do that and you find your IP being sold after you close your account, you can sue them for misuse - their license to use your IP ends when you close your account.

      The license is also not exclusive, which means you can sell and license your image to anybody else you wish at any point. And, since the images are to be sold for use in advertising... I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any child pornography rings who are advertising their product on Facebook, as well. But if you have some examples, by all means, let's see them.

      You're right, this isn't parasitic, parasites serve a useful purpose in an ecosystem. This is a plague. A blight.

      In other words, a parasite. And what you're overlooking in your ridiculously purple prose is that users ARE getting something of value in return for uploading their photos - a service for sharing & publishing their photos - and people who feel they aren't getting enough value in return are welcome to remove their photos from the site. Last I checked, parasites don't ask for your permission, or allow you to "opt out" of the relationship.

      If you don't like their policies, remove your photos. But if you find this new update objectionable, and you are a user of the service, then I submit to you that you have never read the terms of use prior to this ridiculous shitstorm. Very little has changed, and they've ALWAYS been licensed to use your IP in any way they see fit. Bottom line is, you're not entitled to a free service - and there are plenty of alternatives you could use, or you can build your own. In fact, you could even open it up to everybody else to use for free if you want, because operating a massive server farm for millions of people out of your own pocket is surely the path to riches - Instagram doesn't NEED money to continue operating - running a server farm at a loss is the road to riches, right?

    35. Re:Instagram Bubble by Jason+Levine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wil Wheaton posted about this. Suppose he or another celebrity is spotted shopping somewhere. He's spotted and a photo is posted on Instagram. So far, so good. He's in a public place and thus has no expectation of privacy. If that user's photo is sold by Instagram for the store and used in an ad campaign implying that Wil Wheaton (or the other celebrity) endorses that store, they could be in for a serious lawsuit. Same for any other individual who hasn't signed a model release, but a celebrity would make for a more high profile case.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    36. Re:Instagram Bubble by chrismcb · · Score: 2

      Coming soon:

      Take a good picture eating out with friends at an Italian restaurant? FB's marketing dept. will call the owner selling a FB marketing campaign based on your image. Later, FB ads with your picture will say 'Smitty loves Tony's Italian restaurant, you will too.'

      That isn't legal.
      Just because they have the right to use your picture, doesn't mean they have a right to use your image, and name.
      If these are used for promotional purposes, it will be pictures with no one in them, or pictures of crowds.

    37. Re:Instagram Bubble by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      "So long, and thanks for all the pics!"

      Exactly. A friend of mine deleted his Instagram account today, and others probably did as well. He's just the only one I know of for sure. I had considered signing up, but no longer.

    38. Re:Instagram Bubble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would assume a Trojan were those brilliant soldiers who defended this brilliant wall for 10 years, and one day decided it was a brilliant idea to wheel a giant wooden horse into the city, thinking it was a goodbye gift from their 10 year enemies, whom the Trojans killed many of.

  2. Out of Dodge by Jetra · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Never had instagram. Now I never will get one.

    1. Re:Out of Dodge by slashmydots · · Score: 4, Informative

      If there's one service online I had to pick that's one of the least respectable and most satired with the doucheyest users, it would be Instagram so you're not missing much. Basically the 2 jokes are "Oh, you used an instagram filter. You must be a professional photographer" and "Can you eat a meal without instagramming it?"

    2. Re:Out of Dodge by Jetra · · Score: 1

      I use photobucket mostly. It works and it's free.

    3. Re:Out of Dodge by VAXcat · · Score: 1

      It's like they say - Twitter is stupid, and Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read.

      --
      There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
    4. Re:Out of Dodge by plover · · Score: 2

      Your list is missing my favorite description: Instagram is Twitter for illiterates.

      Is it still a joke if it's true?

      --
      John
    5. Re:Out of Dodge by NJRoadfan · · Score: 3, Informative

      Didn't that line originate from the TV show "2 Broke Girls"?

    6. Re:Out of Dodge by spire3661 · · Score: 2

      I am of two minds about Instagram, much like twitter. Both have their place, but both are so overused that it makes it hard for the good uses of it to shine. I want to scold people for using it instead of doing the 'darkroom' work later on a real workstation but there is something to be said for living in the moment too.

      --
      Good-bye
    7. Re:Out of Dodge by Myopic · · Score: 1

      Another good question would be "can you use a noun without verbing it?"

    8. Re:Out of Dodge by SolitaryMan · · Score: 2

      Twitter is Twitter for illiterates.

      --
      May Peace Prevail On Earth
    9. Re:Out of Dodge by T-Bone-T · · Score: 1

      The best jokes usually are true.

    10. Re:Out of Dodge by Beardydog · · Score: 1

      That depends on how poorly it's being delivered.

    11. Re:Out of Dodge by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I'm still not quite sure what it is, or why it is suddenly more popular than all the other web sites where you put pictures.

    12. Re:Out of Dodge by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      Now now, there's no need to insult illiterate people by linking them to instagram.

    13. Re:Out of Dodge by Slyfox696 · · Score: 2

      Give me a second and I'll Google the answer for you.

    14. Re:Out of Dodge by Genda · · Score: 1

      Yeah, cuz Twitter is Twitter for people who can't write... you need a site for the other half of illiteracy.

    15. Re:Out of Dodge by Myopic · · Score: 1

      Can you fax me the answer? I want to blog it.

    16. Re:Out of Dodge by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      I use Instagram and like the instant "take a photo, post it, get social feedback" nature of it. (I don't use the filters at all. Never saw a use for them.) However, when I'm posting my photo there, the expectation has been I'm granting Instagram a license to use my photo for purposes of displaying it, not for selling it without my permission to some company without my approval and without sharing the profit.

      I'm exploring Instagram alternatives (mostly that rely on my self-hosted Wordpress blog).

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    17. Re:Out of Dodge by Asmodae · · Score: 1

      Indeed, people CHOOSE to use Instagram.

    18. Re:Out of Dodge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You give way too much credit to writers and/or new series.

  3. Stockphotos by Quakeulf · · Score: 4, Funny

    There is going to a lot of food images up for grabs...

    1. Re:Stockphotos by slashmydots · · Score: 1

      That gives me an idea. Everyone should take a break from Instagramming their dinner and take a picture of nothing but flowers. Stock photography services are sooooo sick of flowers!

    2. Re:Stockphotos by dintech · · Score: 2

      But most of that food depicted went bad about 30 or 40 years ago.

    3. Re:Stockphotos by stephanruby · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A second section allows Facebook to charge money. It says that "a business or other entity may pay us to display your... photos... in connection with paid or sponsored content or promotions, without any compensation to you." That language does not exist in the current terms of use.

      This reminds me of the Judge Judy case where a promoter used a young woman's semi-provocative facebook pictures on flyers to advertise a new strip joint.

    4. Re:Stockphotos by boristdog · · Score: 2

      I'm thinking wieners, but flowers works.

    5. Re:Stockphotos by TheBogBrushZone · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Odd that everyone is complaining about their land-grab of photographs and very few are mentioning their permitted use of your username and likeness which seems a lot more objectionable to me. Facebook is full of invasive and misleading ads for dating sites that would just love a cache of readily available real names and profile photos to attach to their fake users. I'd much rather they nicked my spur-of-the-moment snaps than used me to defraud lonely and desperate people.

      --
      And behold, a command prompt and he who sat upon it, his name was shutdown and -h 3:11 followed with him
    6. Re:Stockphotos by bleh-of-the-huns · · Score: 5, Funny

      You just lost points for admitting you watch Judge Judy...

      --
      I came, I conquered, I coredumped
    7. Re:Stockphotos by RazorSharp · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'd much rather they nicked my spur-of-the-moment snaps than used me to defraud lonely and desperate people.

      I know. I mean, it's so unfair that these lonely and desperate people might see a picture of my sexy ass, which will prompt them to sign up for some crappy dating site. Then they'll spend hours and hours searching for my profile on the dating site to no avail. It's not easy being sexy, everyone's always looking to exploit me.

      In all seriousness, this probably explains why FB was willing to fork over so much cash for Instagram. While it's good that they actually had a plan in place to monetize their purchase, the plan itself is very objectionable. I'm sure their lawyers found some way to make it legal, but I find this practice unsettling. It seems unethical. Even if it's not, I'm sure many of their users wouldn't approve. The sad thing is most will never know.

      --
      "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
    8. Re:Stockphotos by blueg3 · · Score: 2

      Fortunately the game's made up and the points don't matter.

    9. Re:Stockphotos by Russ1642 · · Score: 1

      Judge Judy rocks.

    10. Re:Stockphotos by SilentStaid · · Score: 1

      ...readily available real names and profile photos to attach to their fake users. I'd much rather they nicked my spur-of-the-moment snaps than used me to defraud lonely and desperate people.

      Speak for yourself, for some of us defrauding lonely and desperate people using an online profile only loosely grounded in reality is still the best way to get dates.

    11. Re:Stockphotos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Emma Stones.

    12. Re:Stockphotos by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm sure their lawyers found some way to make it legal, but I find this practice unsettling. It seems unethical

      I"m curious what they're going about what most photographers have to do...a model release form, signed for each person appearing in the image, if it is to be used to generate $$$.

      I don't think/EM> a blanket statement will do it....possibly would cover the owner of the instagram account as part of their TOS, but for other people in the image, I'm not thinking that will fly legally?

      Of course, IANAL......

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    13. Re:Stockphotos by Thaedron · · Score: 1

      I can picture it now... Mark Zuckerberg dressed like a jedi, waving his hand... "don't be concerned with those pictures, those are no longer pictures you have any rights to..."

    14. Re:Stockphotos by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      I'd much rather they nicked my spur-of-the-moment snaps than used me to defraud lonely and desperate people.

      With you being a Slashdot denizen, I doubt your visage would be able to defraud your grandmother, let alone these supposed "lonely and desperate people". Ba-zingggg!!!

      --
      That is all.
    15. Re:Stockphotos by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      Speak for yourself, for some of us defrauding lonely and desperate people using an online profile only loosely grounded in reality is still the best way to get dates.

      Well, first dates anyway.

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    16. Re:Stockphotos by FairAndHateful · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking wieners, but flowers works.

      Flowers, bucket full of cocktops. Tomayto Tomahto.

    17. Re:Stockphotos by TheBogBrushZone · · Score: 1

      Do I need to point out the irony of that statement or was it intentional?

      --
      And behold, a command prompt and he who sat upon it, his name was shutdown and -h 3:11 followed with him
    18. Re:Stockphotos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just lost points for admiting you know who is Judge Judy...
      Sending as an AC not to make the same mistake.

    19. Re:Stockphotos by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Funny

      Speak for yourself, for some of us defrauding lonely and desperate people using an online profile only loosely grounded in reality is still the best way to get dates.

      Yeah, and the rest of us end up using some obscure function like

      #include
      struct tm *getdate(const char *string);

      kinda lonely but it works every time.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    20. Re:Stockphotos by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      well If facebook is doing this, Than it leads me to believe that faceboook is responsible for ALL content on their site. If facebook is responsible for the content, and not the users who made the post, than when someone posts kiddy porn, Than the people who run facebook should be charged.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    21. Re:Stockphotos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh no! What do I do with the 80 points I got for talking about how I don't own a TV?

    22. Re:Stockphotos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I"m curious what they're going about what most photographers have to do...a model release form, signed for each person appearing in the image, if it is to be used to generate $$$.

      That apply only in America.

      In other countries, picture taken in public place doesn't need any signed contract of person unless it is for advertising purposes. Example if someone is eating a McDonald's hamburger at street and someone takes photo of him. McDonal's can not use that photo to be used in advertising at all.

      But if someone takes picture from MacDonal's restaurant full of people, then they can use that for marketing if they have banner somewhere very well visible that on that day they are taking ad photos of people and thats why -80% for all prices eaten at place.

      You don't need any contract of people for photos from public place, as long you are not trying to place them in shady context. As you can not dishonor people with lies. Like place someone recognized size to ad of specific political party when they reality are against that political party or just don't like to express their political opinion at all.

      But using peoples photos from public places isn't crime and doesn't need any kind contract with them as long you don't draw them to situation what wasn't the case or in bad light.

    23. Re:Stockphotos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, IANAL......

      TMI

    24. Re:Stockphotos by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      I"m curious what they're going about what most photographers have to do...a model release form, signed for each person appearing in the image, if it is to be used to generate $$$.

      That apply only in America.

      Err...well, this is a US centric site/forum, so most articles, posts, replies are going to be from a US centric point of view.

      If you are outside the US, glad to have you, but keep in mind the forum you are reading and posting to, and learn to go with the flow, eh?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    25. Re:Stockphotos by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 2

      I"m curious what they're going about what most photographers have to do...a model release form, signed for each person appearing in the image, if it is to be used to generate $$$.

      I am wondering that, too.

      A professional photographer produces a product for which the licensing is clear. If I am a paid model, I signed the releases as a condition for employment, and I know what to expect.

      But what if a friend snaps a photo of me, FB grabs it, and another party creates an advertisement that implies I am endorsing a product/service? Removing the professional photographer from the picture does not change my reasonable expectations as a private citizen while, say, dining in a random restaurant.

    26. Re:Stockphotos by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Just like Calvinball!

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  4. You need their service! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not like there's any real competitors to Instagram. I mean, we never uploaded pictures to the internet before them, right?

    1. Re:You need their service! by Assmasher · · Score: 5, Funny

      Who needs the internet, I've got Facebook!

      --
      Loading...
    2. Re:You need their service! by alen · · Score: 2

      you can always run your own web server from home with your pictures

      i'm sure thousands of people will be looking at them

    3. Re:You need their service! by zero.kalvin · · Score: 1

      Serious question, what about imagur (I think that's how it is spelled) ?

    4. Re:You need their service! by vlm · · Score: 1

      I've never seen it used for anything other than /r/gonewild ... does it have a life beyond homemade pr0n for reddit users? Or is there any popular, real, wide spread (ha ha) demand for photo sharing other than homemade pr0n? Remember 100K fanatic users is only like one sixty-thousandth the world population, by popular I mean FB or google sized popularity, or at least WoW sized.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    5. Re:You need their service! by Pope · · Score: 1

      imgur is incredibly popular for message board image posting, same as imageshack was a few years ago. Use cases exist outside Reddit's homegrown porn milieu.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    6. Re:You need their service! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stackoverflow uses imgur for image hosting
      I use it for temp screenshoot sharing 'cause gyzao is annoying.

    7. Re:You need their service! by tompaulco · · Score: 2

      you can always run your own web server from home with your pictures
      i'm sure thousands of people will be looking at them

      That seems like a rational idea to me. After all, why would you want thousands of people you don't even know to look at your pictures? That seems narcissistic to me. Surely, you just want your friends and family to look at them? Post them on your server, and send a link. Done.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    8. Re:You need their service! by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Between ditching Twitpic (who pulled a similar stunt) and using Instagram (I know, didn't learn my lesson), I posted photos directly on an area of my Wordpress blog. Now that I have a smartphone, this should be even easier. With Twitter integration, I can have a link to the photo appear automatically in my Twitter stream.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  5. And suddenly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just when I thought I could never want to use Instagram less, this happens.

    1. Re:And suddenly by hantms · · Score: 1

      I will join now just so I can close my account and make a statement.

    2. Re:And suddenly by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Didn't work with myspace, don't think it'd work with any other site.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    3. Re:And suddenly by epSos-de · · Score: 1

      The funny part is that they will take the pictures of the users and then sue them for using their images illegally.

      This was their plant to make money all along.

  6. Whatever will the world do by hsmith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They want to sell shitty pictures, taken by shitty camera phones, that have shitty filters applied to them? Great business model there.

    1. Re:Whatever will the world do by sirber · · Score: 1

      in 640x480, excellent for print.

      --
      Be or ben't
    2. Re:Whatever will the world do by isorox · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They want to sell shitty pictures, taken by shitty camera phones, that have shitty filters applied to them? Great business model there.

      This is nothing about using them for general advertising. This is about using them to
      1) Work out where you've been, what you've done, and where you're likely to go for targetted adverts
      2) Using your pictures in adverts targeted to you and your friends. "Hay Bob, Dave just got back from Rome (with photo of Dave in the Colosseum), click here to book a flight!"

    3. Re:Whatever will the world do by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 5, Interesting

      They can already do 1) and 2) is not going to happen, its just too loaded with pitfalls. Dave was going for his mother's funeral, whoops, lawsuit. I don't think people appreciate the demand for even low quality stock photos out there.

      Instagram has apparently a billion odd photos uploaded. Lets say that optimistically 1% of those are saleable at all. That's 10 million photos, now lets say 10% of those earn a dollar a month in sales between them, that's a million bucks a month. Not too shabby, and quite possible, one photo in a thousand earning a dollar a month. That they'd have to do it for around a century just to break even is beside the point, I've no idea what the hell they were thinking spending that much money on a photo upload service in the first place.

      Still, its an all round scummy move by facebook and probably illegal too. Maybe if they offered an opt-in profit sharing system instead, or something, that might be good.

    4. Re:Whatever will the world do by Narcogen · · Score: 1

      I'm uncertain as to how you can posit a break-even point without any mention of costs.

      What costs are associated with selling this content that aren't already incurred by running the service as it is now?

      They're seeking to monetize something they're already doing, and I'm willing to bet the odd settlement for legal issues would be more than compensated for by the sheer volume of sales, as you mention in your example.

    5. Re:Whatever will the world do by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      I believe he's referring to the cost of Facebook buying Instagram, $1B.

      But your point is still valid. Operating costs for a century might be higher than $1B.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    6. Re:Whatever will the world do by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > They want to sell shitty pictures, taken by shitty camera phones

      It's the proverbial million monkeys typing on a million typewriters. Except the output actually has some chance of being useful.

      Your silly attempt at pretense doesn't really alter that.

      Selecting what's useful MIGHT be a problem. However the entire point of this service is probably to efficiently sort through the dreck. So it's already a non-problem.

      The service was just waiting for someone crass enough to properly exploit it.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    7. Re:Whatever will the world do by mk1004 · · Score: 2

      They can already do 1) and 2) is not going to happen, its just too loaded with pitfalls. Dave was going for his mother's funeral, whoops, lawsuit.

      Except the TOS no doubt says you must submit to binding arbitration, so good luck with that.

      --
      I can mend the break of day, heal a broken heart, and provide temporary relief to nymphomaniacs.
    8. Re:Whatever will the world do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Plus, they are idiots when it comes to figuring those things out. My wife and I went to Dallas, TX. She took photos while we were down there. All photos copied to our computers into the pictures directory automatically have their geotagging removed. She then uploaded them into Facebook in an album called "our trip to Texas." Every single time she logs into Facebook now, it asks her to tag her photos and in particular to give location data for the photos. It must drive facebook nuts not to know who or what are in the photos. Especially since she doesn't like the automatic tagging and marks the "not me" when she shows up in other people's photos and Facebook notifies her of that.

    9. Re:Whatever will the world do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not illegal once you hit "I agree."

    10. Re:Whatever will the world do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, 2) , is more likely than you think when you factor in Facebook. It will come down to a weighted metrics, likely based off of image likes/comments, friend proximity, and location frequency. I haven't read anything about FB segregating Facebooks data and Instragrams data, have you? If Instragram is heading towards realtime marketing, eliminating many of the long-standing time sinks that have always slowed it down (model release, image release, photo copyright), and Facebook is their marketing endpoint, it doesn't take a brain trust link across the data sources. In fact, I speculate there aren't even 2 seperate databases at this point. That would un-necessarily complicate things that shouldn't be from an infrastructure standpoint.

    11. Re:Whatever will the world do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They can already do 1) and 2) is not going to happen, its just too loaded with pitfalls. Dave was going for his mother's funeral, whoops, lawsuit. I don't think people appreciate the demand for even low quality stock photos out there.

      Instagram has apparently a billion odd photos uploaded. Lets say that optimistically 1% of those are saleable at all. That's 10 million photos, now lets say 10% of those earn a dollar a month in sales between them, that's a million bucks a month. Not too shabby, and quite possible, one photo in a thousand earning a dollar a month.

      Horseshit. There is a glut of photos in stock. Have you ever tried to sell an image? Even the micro-stock agencies have gotten so picky that it's hilariously hard to sell a photo for 10c if you upload hundreds. They have to pass all manner of quality criteria to even be accepted. If you have people or recognisable properties you need a release.

    12. Re:Whatever will the world do by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      Dave was going for his mother's funeral, whoops, lawsuit.

      Why is that a lawsuit? Why does it matter why he was going?

  7. Guess What App I am Deleting on the Train Home by mrsquid0 · · Score: 2

    I played around with instagram for a few days, but I never really saw the point of it. I can take and post pictures with the camera that came with my phone. If I want to play around with the picture I have other apps for that, and they do not send the picture back to a mother ship.

    --
    Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
    1. Re:Guess What App I am Deleting on the Train Home by SternisheFan · · Score: 1
      Ageeed, Instagram has succumbed to the social disease that is Facebook. Just never trust any app or cloud service with your personal files, be they your photos, docs, mp3s, text/rmails etc. If you forever lose them because you didn't back them up on multiple hard/flash drives you have noone to blame but yourself.

      BTW, does Instagram give user's a cut of their profits???

    2. Re:Guess What App I am Deleting on the Train Home by Stormthirst · · Score: 1

      No - I believe that you are explicitly denied any compensation for them using your photos.

    3. Re:Guess What App I am Deleting on the Train Home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guess What App I am Deleting on the Train Home[?]

      Facebook?

  8. One has to wonder. . . by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    at what point is enough, enough. When are people going to quit Facebook/Instagram/whatever en masse as these deliberate and calculated abuses continue?

    These are your pictures. You own them. No corporation has the right to use them without your permission just because they are holding them.

    Sure, one can always not put up pictures, but that defeats the whole point of Instagram, doesn't it?

    There are options. One could always upload the picture with a big watermark on it or plaster a copyright symbol and your name on it, but knowing these shysters, they would just remove those things and still claim it's theirs.

    Just another reason why I don't use any of these "services".

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    1. Re:One has to wonder. . . by alen · · Score: 1

      most people don't care, like me

      once in a while i'll take a decent photo. if instagram uses it i'll be happy and will probably upload more

    2. Re:One has to wonder. . . by isorox · · Score: 3, Informative

      These are your pictures. You own them. No corporation has the right to use them without your permission just because they are holding them.

      Yes they do, you agreed to it in the terms-of-service

    3. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Dogtanian · · Score: 2

      These are your pictures. You own them. No corporation has the right to use them without your permission just because they are holding them.

      Their point would be that you *did* agree to give them permission when you agreed to their terms and conditions.

      Not entirely sure if I'm playing devil's advocate or not here, because while I have nothing but contempt for this move by Facebook (or any similar "land grab"), people *do* have the choice whether or not to use their shitty, worthless service and did agree to terms and conditions, supposedly.

      The question is to what extent people are made aware of these terms and to what extent they can truly be expected to have "agreed" to this clause, especially in cases where they've been changed. I suspect that it might or might not stand up in court- but it's certainly not as clear-cut as you imply.

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    4. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Splab · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Better make sure you have permission from subjects in the picture, else you could very well find yourself on the wrong side of a lawsuit, since it's your responsibility to make sure your models are paid for published work.

    5. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    6. Re:One has to wonder. . . by lipanitech · · Score: 0

      Lets take a picture with 3 or 5 mega pixel camera lay a video filter over it. What a stupid app I used it one and never again so dumb.

    7. Re:One has to wonder. . . by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, they won't own them.
      In the EU terms of services like this are void.
      And I would guess also in the US such terms would contradict copyright laws ...
      In the EU an author needs to be compensated for his work. General terms like that are void.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    8. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you be ok if they used a picture of you as a spokesperson for a herpes awareness campaign?

    9. Re:One has to wonder. . . by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      But shouldn't they sue the people who actually PUBLISHED the picture?

      --
      bickerdyke
    10. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 2

      I"m guessing they consider the photographer to be the publisher since he published the photo on instagram under the terms that allowed the image to be sold for commercial use.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    11. Re:One has to wonder. . . by a_n_d_e_r_s · · Score: 3, Informative

      Putting pictures on the Internet are publishing them. By uploading the picture on instagram or facebook you are in essence publishing the pictures.

      So then it's your fault.

      --
      Just saying it like it are.
    12. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Chewbacon · · Score: 1

      Geocities did something like this a long time ago. There was a mass exodus which, before it really went anywhere, caused them to backpedal. Lets all start taking pictures of our dicks and seeing what we can get for them.

      --
      Chewbacon
      The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
    13. Re:One has to wonder. . . by alen · · Score: 1

      i'll ask the sun's or the apartment building's permission next time

      lots of things to take photos of except people

    14. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But shouldn't they sue the people who actually PUBLISHED the picture?

      The people who published it point to Instagram and say: "We bought the rights to publish this from those guys there, go after them."

      Then, Instagram points at you and says: "That guy there told us that he has every single right for that photo that a guy with a photo can have under the sun and that he would give those rights to us. Go after him."

      Then you say: "Wait a minute, I didn't do anything like that!"

      "You did click that 'I Agree' button, didn't you?"

    15. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You, and many others like you (though comparatively few in total), have ultimately no clue how people even slightly outside your very small social circle work, do you? You seriously are just baffled as to how people can have no concern over your narrowly-defined interests, right?

    16. Re:One has to wonder. . . by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You are compensated for your work in that you are able to use Instagram and Facebook without making any monetary payment.

      I agree that this is utterly shitty, but it's more than likely totally legal in both the US and the UK. You use their hosting space for free, they use your pictures in their marketing. If you don't like it set up your own website, on your own dime, and post copyright notices for all of the images. You have the choice to not use Facebook, Instagram, Google, or any other service for which you disagree with the Terms of Use. Yes, there are protections (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations, for example) but I doubt any court will see that as applicable here.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    17. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it would be amaaaazing.

    18. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      damn - they told me they weren't gonna use it!

    19. Re:One has to wonder. . . by fearofcarpet · · Score: 1

      According to FB logic, the car park in Seinfeld that loans your car out to hookers while it's parked is a perfectly legitimate business model. As is the scene in Ferris Bueller's Day Off when the parking garage attendants take Cameron's Ferrari for a joy ride. Let's just hope Zuckerberg doesn't open up a string of daycare centers.

      --
      Actually, I wrote my thesis on life experience.
    20. Re:One has to wonder. . . by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      These are your pictures. You own them. No corporation has the right to use them without your permission just because they are holding them.

      Yes they do, you agreed to it in the terms-of-service

      So... if I take a picture of a copyrighted photo, then upload that picture to Instagram, Instagram subsequently owns the copyright?

      I find that dubious, at best.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    21. Re:One has to wonder. . . by CanHasDIY · · Score: 0

      You are compensated for your work in that you are able to use Instagram and Facebook without making any monetary payment. I agree that this is utterly shitty, but it's more than likely totally legal in both the US and the UK. You use their hosting space for free, they use your pictures in their marketing. If you don't like it set up your own website, on your own dime, and post copyright notices for all of the images.

      Or, don't be a complete tool and upload the works you want protected to a site that (at least, somewhat) respects artists ownership rights, like DeviantArt.

      Then again, if you're an Instagram user, you're probably the furthest thing from an actual artist a person can be, without going to law school...

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    22. Re:One has to wonder. . . by mrbester · · Score: 0

      Except that when you are reduced to a meat sack with a camera phone that has no rights over what you produce Facebook becomes the publisher with all attendant liabilities. In order for the photographer to be liable there has to be ownership (however minimal) retained by the photographer.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    23. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to FB logic, the car park in Seinfeld that loans your car out to hookers while it's parked is a perfectly legitimate business model. As is the scene in Ferris Bueller's Day Off when the parking garage attendants take Cameron's Ferrari for a joy ride. Let's just hope Zuckerberg doesn't open up a string of daycare centers.

      if George had signed a release saying Jiffy Park could use his car as a brothel while it was parked there then this might be closer to the FB/Instagram situation. Instagram was not offering indefinite private online cloud storage and then started selling pictures without telling anyone. THAT would be bad. This is just people who got used to a free service being pissed everything on the web isn't actually free.

    24. Re:One has to wonder. . . by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      According to FB logic, the car park in Seinfeld that loans your car out to hookers while it's parked is a perfectly legitimate business model. As is the scene in Ferris Bueller's Day Off when the parking garage attendants take Cameron's Ferrari for a joy ride.

      No kidding. I think I'm going to start adding a clause to all my service contracts that gives me King's Privilege (i.e., I can fuck your wives and daughters at will), just to see if anyone catches it.

      Let's just hope Zuckerberg doesn't open up a string of daycare centers.

      Fuck that, here's hoping he does.

      Maybe then, when their own kids are being whored out like, well, whores, lawmakers will open their fucking eyes and do something about this sort of bullshit rent-seeking.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    25. Re:One has to wonder. . . by mrbester · · Score: 1

      Except they can't if all rights are transferred - however shadily. A journalist retains some ownership and liability of the drivel his rag prints because his name is still on the byline.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    26. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really. You pay to park your car, you don't pay to use Facebook.

    27. Re:One has to wonder. . . by SecurityGuy · · Score: 2

      These are your pictures. You own them. No corporation has the right to use them without your permission just because they are holding them.

      Of course they don't. They have the right to use them with your permission, which you grant when you accept the ToS. I think it's stupid, too, but that's how it works.

      People have gotten used to the notion that people will throw a useful service out there and let you use it for free forever. Frankly, that's stupid and we should all know better. They're either going to find a way to get money out of it, which is either going to mean selling the things you put in there or selling information derived from the things you put in there, they're going to start showing you ads, or they're going to start charging you to use it.

    28. Re:One has to wonder. . . by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Of course, if it's taken in a public place, your models only have any right to compensation if it's used for advertising. Your uploading to Instagram is not publication for advertising purposes, though Instagram's later re-use of it might be. (You could easily claim that it's "fine art", though that's stretching both "fine" and "art".)

    29. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No kidding, at least in Germany the architect has the copyright of a building. Building a house looking the same can get you into trouble and if it is "artsy" (meaning so impractical that nobody except the architect wants to live/work in there) enough also for publishing photos of it.

    30. Re:One has to wonder. . . by dfm3 · · Score: 2

      but knowing these shysters, they would just remove those things and still claim it's theirs.

      There's a difference between being given ownership of a copyrighted work, and being granted a license to it. If you read the new terms closely, you'll see that you (the user) still own the copyright to the photos, but are giving Instagram/Facebook the rights to distribute your works and to make a profit from them without giving you a cut. They aren't claiming that the images are their property, just that you have given them a royalty-free license to use them however they want to. Essentially you are granting them rights without giving up any of yours; in other words, you could still sell prints of your work or license it to other parties.

    31. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These are your pictures. You own them. No corporation has the right to use them without your permission just because they are holding them.

      You're absolutely right, and nothing about what you said there is at odds with the new terms of service. The corporation can't use them without your permission - which is why you are agreeing to GRANT them that permission by accepting the new terms of service and continuing to use the service.

      When are people going to quit Facebook/Instagram/whatever en masse as these deliberate and calculated abuses continue?

      At the point that Google makes the move away from free and starts charging for its services, and other pay-to-use services that offer these capabilities spring up. Google are the ones who made the big push into "free, ad-supported services." Now it's very difficult (if not downright impossible) to compete in any space they move into, unless you also adopt the "free to use" model.

      I would actually pay a (modest) yearly or monthly fee to some of these services if they offered an ad-free "pro" or "premium" option - I get some value out of them even now, but would definitely use a more "private/user-controlled" service more heavily. But, since those don't exist, and I do get some value from using the services, I use a simple heuristic for determining what to post - I ask myself a single question: "Would people whose opinions and respect I value (family, friends) or whose goodwill I need to survive (current boss, potential employers, potential clients and customers) think less of me if this information became public?"

      If the answer is "yes", I don't post. If the answer is "maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe," I don't post. If the answer is "no," then it's generally fine to post. As an example - me with my girlfriend enjoying a baseball game last summer? No big deal, go ahead and post. Me with a beer in each hand, looking visibly drunk, holding forth on winston churchill and the british empire in my boxer shorts during a pub crawl with the guys? I'd rather keep that view of me from the general public - so I don't post it.

    32. Re:One has to wonder. . . by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      So... if I take a picture of a copyrighted photo, then upload that picture to Instagram, Instagram subsequently owns the copyright?

      No, because you didn't have the rights you said you had to any photos when you uploaded it, so Instagram can't get those rights from you. Instead, you've just perpetrated either a fraud or a breach of contract against Instagram.

    33. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Americano · · Score: 1

      He didn't say "yes, they own them."

      GGP said, "You own them. No corporation has the right to use them without your permission just because they are holding them.

      GP said, "Yes they do," as in - "yes, they do have the right to use them," because you are *granting them that permission by using (or continuing to use) the service.*

      Nobody said using the service transfers ownership - it simply grants them a royalty-free license to use the images as they wish. And in return, you get to use the service. And frankly, I'm not sure that's an awful deal, given the average quality of most peoples' instagram photos.

    34. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EVERYBODY I know voted for John Kerry - I don't understand HOW George Bush could've won!

      EVERYBODY I know voted for Mitt Romney - I don't understand HOW Barack Obama could've won!

      This particular attitude is far more prevalent than you might think.

    35. Re:One has to wonder. . . by mikewilsonuk · · Score: 1

      at what point is enough, enough.

      It is like boiling a frog -- if the water gets hotter slowly enough, some frogs won't notice they are being cooked to death.

    36. Re:One has to wonder. . . by DragonWriter · · Score: 2

      No kidding. I think I'm going to start adding a clause to all my service contracts that gives me King's Privilege (i.e., I can fuck your wives and daughters at will), just to see if anyone catches it.

      Note in doing so that in many, if not most, jurisdictions exchanging sex acts for goods or services is a crime, as is soliciting such an exchange, and also that a contract in which either parties obligations include the commission of a crime may be void as contrary to public policy. So there's a decent chance that if you do that you will both be committing a crime and providing documentary evidence of the crime, and also invalidating any of the service contracts that actually get signed (not just the part regarding the "King's Privilege", but the whole contract.)

      Which reveals the rather key difference to all the prostitution analogies that makes them off-point: the thing that Instagram is seeking your consent for isn't a crime. Its a perfect legitimate exchange of intellectual property rights for services (its funny how many of the same people that call IP rights "imaginary property" get really mad when its their "imaginary property" that is at issue, even when the issue is a simple voluntary exchange that they can turn down by not using a free service.)

    37. Re:One has to wonder. . . by martijn+hoekstra · · Score: 2

      So... if I take a picture of a copyrighted photo, then upload that picture to Instagram, Instagram subsequently owns the copyright? I find that dubious, at best.

      No, you keep owenership of the picture you took, in the license agreement you agreed to with instagram, you "grant to Instagram a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, transferable, sub-licensable, worldwide license to use the Content that you post on or through the Service", but you don't transfer copyright to them.

      The picture you took however, also has a different creative work (the copyrighted photo you took a photo) in it. This - separate - copyright is not yours to license, and does not become licensed to Instagram in any form.

      If this picture comprises almost all of your picture, it is unlikely that your picture (of the picture) meets the threshold of originality required to be eligible in the first place. If the copyrighted picture is a minor part of your picture, (for example, a picture of a room where the copyrighted picture is somewhere on a table), the use of the original work would be considered De Minimis, and would not have any influence on the copyright.

      final question then: is instagram able to sell that picture? No, not in any normal shape or form, at least not while the copyrighted picture is the main part of your picture. If they would carefully remove that picture from your picture however, they would. So basically, it comes down to common sense. Well, apart from the part where you agreed to that license with Instagram. That's not common sense at all.

    38. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, this is facebook, so...

      http://www.itworld.com/security/328387/german-privacy-regulator-orders-facebook-end-its-real-name-policy
      When ordered to end their real name policy, they basically just said fuck off: "We believe the orders are without merit, a waste of German taxpayers' money and we will fight it vigorously,"

    39. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Facebook, Google et al have reached the point where only new government actions of the harshest legal kind can bring these mega companies to heel. One problem- the government is already giving these companies a free hand so that their services can be used by the various security agencies as the ultimate intelligence gathering operations.

      With respect to this particular issue of photo stealing, one needs to consider the genesis of the abuse. All Internet companies that operate like Facebook need a 'general distribution' clause covering user content, because this is how the Internet works. However, there is a massive distinction between permission to 'broadcast' user owned data on the Internet, and permission to directly commercially exploit user created data, as if Facebook was the original copyright owner.

      Think for a second, and you'll understand why the scummy sharks that work at Facebook think they can exploit user content howsoever they wish by persuading their sucker users that they have already given up ALL rights. Facebook is so powerful, that they can risk the 'take it or leave it' strategy UNLESS there is government interference. However, this situation is not unique to the Internet age. Corporations, by their very nature, are sociopathic, and will continue to develop business methods that are detrimental to the rights of ordinary workers/customers until punished by law.

      Selling photo usage rights to third parties crosses a line that even the war mongering regime of Obama cannot ignore. Facebook, Google et al must continue to do their dirtiest work undercover, just as most gangsters do not wish to be publicly associated with the murders they carry out. The mid level sharks in these companies need a regular 'good slapping' to remind them that starting the process that will 'kill the goose that lays the golden eggs' is never their job, no matter how good the short term gains may seem.

    40. Re:One has to wonder. . . by TheSpoom · · Score: 2

      But shouldn't they sue the people who actually PUBLISHED the picture?

      I am not a lawyer, but I guarantee they have this covered. The terms of service almost certainly say that you irrevocably represent that you have the full permission of any subjects of your photos, and agree to indemnify (i.e. pay for the entire legal defense of) the service provider in cases where it is revealed that any representations you made in agreeing to the EULA are false.

      So if they sue Facebook, Facebook points out the Terms of Service areas where you agreed to these things, then sues you to pay any judgment made against them as well.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    41. Re:One has to wonder. . . by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      So... if I take a picture of a copyrighted photo, then upload that picture to Instagram, Instagram subsequently owns the copyright?

      No, because you didn't have the rights you said you had to any photos when you uploaded it, so Instagram can't get those rights from you.

      Kinda figured that.

      Instead, you've just perpetrated either a fraud or a breach of contract against Instagram.

      How so? Admittedly, I don't really understand much about copyrights.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    42. Re:One has to wonder. . . by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      No kidding. I think I'm going to start adding a clause to all my service contracts that gives me King's Privilege (i.e., I can fuck your wives and daughters at will), just to see if anyone catches it.

      Note in doing so that in many, if not most, jurisdictions exchanging sex acts for goods or services is a crime, as is soliciting such an exchange, and also that a contract in which either parties obligations include the commission of a crime may be void as contrary to public policy. So there's a decent chance that if you do that you will both be committing a crime and providing documentary evidence of the crime, and also invalidating any of the service contracts that actually get signed (not just the part regarding the "King's Privilege", but the whole contract.)

      well, shit, that's no fun!

      Times like this I wish I knew more about copyright law, so I could better make my point (may figure out the right wording today, but not going to hold my breath).

      Which reveals the rather key difference to all the prostitution analogies that makes them off-point: the thing that Instagram is seeking your consent for isn't a crime. Its a perfect legitimate exchange of intellectual property rights for services (its funny how many of the same people that call IP rights "imaginary property" get really mad when its their "imaginary property" that is at issue, even when the issue is a simple voluntary exchange that they can turn down by not using a free service.)

      I think the point of the prostitution references isn't to say that what Instagram is doing isn't legal - seems to me the purpose is more to point out that just because it's not necessarily illegal, doesn't mean it is necessarily a morally correct thing to do.

      Then again, I can't legitimately claim to speak for anyone else here, so who knows.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    43. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Not sure if that is the case. You could argue that while you are the copyright holder and can grant aicense to FB you are not asserting you have valid model releases and it would be an unreasonable expectation that you obtain them so FB can sell the photo. I think that would be stretch for a court to require since you took and used the photo in a manner that is consistent with what a reasonable person would find acceptable; and you can't bind a third party to a contract without their approval.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    44. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Fred+IV · · Score: 1

      Sure you do, only the form of currency is different. You pay Facebook with access to your personal information in exchange for their service. Just because you don't value that information the same way that you value money doesn't mean that there isn't an exchange taking place.

    45. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Krojack · · Score: 1

      I'm sure you will care if you found out that Facebook made in excess of $20,000 from one of your photos and you didn't get a cut or even credit.

    46. Re:One has to wonder. . . by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      OK, you seem pretty well versed in copyright law, so I've got another curve ball for you:

      Say a 16 year old kid signs up for Instagram, and takes pictures of nothing but his own junk; since the pictures are stored on Instagram's servers, and they automatically license all user content to themselves, could there be a situation in which Instagram is considered legally culpable for possession/transmission of child pornography?


      If anyone's looking for a motive in my asking of these odd questions, I personally think this (the licensing requirement and monetization of user content without due compensation) is a stupid idea, and am thus treading the murky legal waters to try and find a way we can screw them over for it.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    47. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if they sue Facebook, Facebook points out the Terms of Service areas where you agreed to these things, then sues you to pay any judgment made against them as well.

      Let's suppose this turns out to be the correct legal position. How's this going to work out for Facebook? After the very first such law suit, every single user who has ever posted any photo of any identifiable person apart from themselves now knows that they are legally on the hook and must delete every such photo immediately. And probably close their account to be sure.
      Sounds like a PR and commercial disaster for Facebook. They must know this, so this is not going to happen. They will find some other way in practice.

    48. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't matter what they put in the ToS, no normal person reads them, so if the terms aren't reasonable a judge will probably rule it invalid. Putting in terms that would render the Instagram user liable for the uses Instagram makes of the picture isn't reasonable, so I wouldn't bet on terms of that nature (assuming there are any) holding up.

    49. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except even that wikipedia article notes that even frogs won't stay in water if you heat it up, so either you mean people will actually bail when the metaphorical water gets too hot, or it isn't like boiling a frog.

    50. Re:One has to wonder. . . by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      With 'any court' you always only mean any US court.
      Wikipedia says we have right now 193 states/countries. So I assume in roughly 180 the courts would disagree.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    51. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is actually true, google it. Your picture of a copyrighted work will have subtle differences in lighting and angle than someone else's photo. So you would own the copyright to the photo of the copyrighted work and they would have the ability to use it royalty free.

      Think of taking a picture of Mickey Mouse at Disneyworld standing next to your niece/cousin/ect, he's a copyrighted (For a long long forever time) figure but you will own the copyright on the picture. Just because your /whole/ picture is nothing but a copyrighted work does not mean it's not a brand new piece of 'art'

    52. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      What if I post a photo and it is legal to post it online but not profit from it. (e.g User was in a public location.) Now, Instagram changes their TOS and sells that photo (published BEFORE the TOS change) for commercial use. Am I held liable for uploading it when it was legal to? Am I liable for not taking down the photo when the TOS changed? (If I can take it down at all, that is.) Is Instagram liable for using the photo without a model release?

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    53. Re:One has to wonder. . . by martijn+hoekstra · · Score: 1

      OK, you seem pretty well versed in copyright law, so I've got another curve ball for you: Say a 16 year old kid signs up for Instagram, and takes pictures of nothing but his own junk; since the pictures are stored on Instagram's servers, and they automatically license all user content to themselves, could there be a situation in which Instagram is considered legally culpable for possession/transmission of child pornography? If anyone's looking for a motive in my asking of these odd questions, I personally think this (the licensing requirement and monetization of user content without due compensation) is a stupid idea, and am thus treading the murky legal waters to try and find a way we can screw them over for it.

      First off: the uploader would be in breach of the TOS: "You may not post nude, partially nude, or sexually suggestive photos." If it's uploaded to their servers, they would be in possession, but that would not necessarily be sanctionable: the MegaUpload case for example explicitly indicated that the takedown procedure for child pornography was fine, but for copyright violations it wasn't (this was taken as evidence that there was a malicious business model). I know safe harbor provisions exist for copyright. I'm not sure if they exist for child pornography as well, but I would assume so.

    54. Re:One has to wonder. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, That is 100% incorrect.

      If you take a photo of me and then sign the rights of that photo away, then I can most definitely sue you. You took the photo, and you signed the publishing rights away. If you did that to me, I would sue the heck out of you.

    55. Re:One has to wonder. . . by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      When are people going to quit Facebook/Instagram/whatever en masse as these deliberate and calculated abuses continue?

      When something better comes along. The masses don't get this. They don't understand that Facebook owns the content. Or maybe they do, but they don't care.

    56. Re:One has to wonder. . . by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      NO! They don't own the copyright. YOU own the copyright of your picture of the other image. BUT you give them permission to use it in any way, in perpetuity.

    57. Re:One has to wonder. . . by jrumney · · Score: 1

      So make it a class action lawsuit, so there is no specific individual "publisher" for Facebook to push the liability to.

    58. Re:One has to wonder. . . by jrumney · · Score: 1

      if George had signed a release saying Jiffy Park could use his car as a brothel while it was parked there then this might be closer to the FB/Instagram situation.

      When did anyone ever sign anything to upload to Instagram?

      A better approximation would be a sign posted at the entrance saying "by entering this carpark you agree to the terms of service written inside this book under this sign", and the user has to park their car on the street near the entrance to the carpark, go over to the sign, open up the T&Cs book and read 32 pages of 9pt terms and conditions, the first 25 pages of which are fairly innocuous stuff. And while they are reading the T&Cs, their session times out, they get towed and end up having to retrieve their car from the towing yard and drive over to the carpark again. Not reading the T&Cs would have been a much better option for them.

    59. Re:One has to wonder. . . by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      ...every single user who has ever posted any photo of any identifiable person apart from themselves now knows that they are legally on the hook and must delete every such photo immediately. And probably close their account to be sure.

      You have far more faith in the judgment of the common Facebook user than I.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
  9. Surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think not. They've got to be looking for any revenue stream they can and this is just another commoditization of their user base. Nothing is free after all.

  10. NOTICE PROVIDED IN TERMS AND CONDITIONS !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All the morons need do is read to what they agree and the world would be a better place, for me, and you !! So shine a little love !! and give InstaGram your vote of APPROVAL !!

  11. Eh.. by niix · · Score: 0

    I feel like Instagram is grasping for straws as it is and this sort of move seals their fate.

  12. Any specific reason... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... those angry users uploaded the photos to Instagram? Why post your personal photos to some website in the first place?

    1. Re:Any specific reason... by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      Because the original terms of service were perfectly reasonable.
      It's not a matter of privacy, it's a matter of photos being used against the will of the author, with no payment or way to deny such use.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    2. Re:Any specific reason... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      "I have altered the bargain. Pray that I don't alter it any further."

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    3. Re:Any specific reason... by lennier · · Score: 1

      Because the original terms of service were perfectly reasonable.

      And the whole point of terms of service is that they can change.

      Welcome to The Cloud (tm). Where your data is our data forever, and our advertisers/governments/sponsors are your new best scary friends.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    4. Re:Any specific reason... by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      And the whole point of terms of service is that they can change.

      No.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  13. Get over it already by rudy_wayne · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yes, this is a shitty thing to do. So don't use Instagram or Facebook or any of the other "services" that are constantly trying to screw you for their profit. We got along just fine for a very long time without Facebook or Instagram. Time to grow up and move on.

    1. Re:Get over it already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, this is a shitty thing to do. So don't use Instagram or Facebook or any of the other "services" that are constantly trying to screw you for their profit. We got along just fine for a very long time without Facebook or Instagram. Time to grow up and move on.

      We did, yes. They, the "unwashed heathen masses", however, did not. They did not appreciate (or at times understand) manually digging through their photos, applying stock filters, uploading them somewhere, and, from there, obtaining the appropriate link and posting it on their blogs. They hated that, so they greatly appreciate services like this.

      There are phenomenally larger numbers of them then there are us. And we were cheerfully in the process of doing whatever we could to screw anyone we could hosting such services out of making money, while they cheerfully don't mind letting companies sell their information for "free". Guess which one is more profitable, and which will remain longer?

    2. Re:Get over it already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look, I certainly never used neither of those services and never will. But this isn't about me, it's about the 100 million (instagram) and 500 million (failbook) fools out there who do use the said services. And when 500 million people say yes to something, it means something, also for you and me, my dear.

      This is a raw deal and a stink to high heavens needs to be raised. The sheeple will keep surrendering their and our rights but it doesn't mean we need to like it.

      The goddamn Terms of Services are goddamn sick jokes. And what takes the cake is every one of those contains a clause that the very terms can change at any moment without any notice.

      Get a clue and grow a pair dude.

  14. Bait... by mwvdlee · · Score: 2, Funny

    ....aaaaaaaaaaaaand switch.

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  15. Privacy matters after 13. by Delusion_ · · Score: 1

    For all that parents get up in arms about digital services abusing the privacy rights of their children (resulting in support of laws such as the US's COPPA), they continue to volunteer for services which violate their own privacy rights.

    Adults have more to lose in this battle than children.

  16. This is a HUGE rights grab. by yakovlev · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I saw this yesterday, and was shocked. This is effectively stealing all users' photos that have been uploaded thus far, and a pretty sleazy thing to do even for new users. If I was an instagram user, my first action after seeing this would be to delete my account. There is almost nothing instagram could offer me that would be worth giving them this kind of free control over all of my photos.

    The privacy implications for photos containing people is even more staggering. I doubt most people on instagram have current model releases for their photographs, so using these commercially could get any number of people sued, but based on the instagram policy, it very well could be the user who took them initially, then "gave instagram permission to use them commercially."

    I would expect this policy to change, but if it doesn't by January 5 or so, I would suggest all instagram users delete their accounts. Also, if it doesn't change by then, watch out for Facebook's terms to change to something similar.

    1. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by garcia · · Score: 1

      Shocked? Really? Facebook owns them and does similar stuff with your photos there. Why would this shock you? On top of that, 99.999% of IG's users will never have their shitty photo used in this manner.

      But, if you're really all that concerned (and you're not because you probably haven't quit FB for the same things) you'd use http://instaport.me/ to download all of your photos and move to Flickr with their new Marissa Mayer Themed App which does the same things IG did for $24.95/year.

      Please note: I am an avid IG user with nearly 700 photos on the service and I have a Flickr Pro account as well.

    2. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For the record, does Instagram's TOS have the usual "we can change this policy at our discretion without notice at any time" famous clause? Because this strikes me as a huge Contract Law grab. Last I knew from when Contract Law almost made sense, EULA/TOS type agreements are supposedly agreements between both vendor and the user, and being generous enough to say the user actually read the legalese.

      However a policy change like this then becomes something our user *specifically did not agree to*. In particular, our hypothetical careful user probably looked at the original policy, decided it was okay, and then posted his pictures. No rational user can expect to use a service allowing for *unlimited* unilateral policy changes that may occur at random points in the future. You might as well say "we have the right to come to your house and take additional pictures of you to verify your Instagram identity with the police" or some nonsense.

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
    3. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I'm puzzled by is...

      If the terms of conditions at the time existing images were uploaded didn't allow Instagram/Facebook to do this, then surely the user has never given them the right to do this?

      Doing so surely requires a renegotiation of the contract between them - Instagram/Facebook cannot rewrite the terms of that contract without the agreement of the user?

    4. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I'm only shocked that it took them this long. Facebook tried this on their main site about 2 years ago but backed down when the product, I mean users, got mad. FB wanted to use a picture of yourself in an ad to your friends to get their attention. As a guy I don't want my picture shown to my friends with the words "I use Tampax" written underneath when I prefer Kotex.

    5. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by vlm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I doubt most people on instagram have current model releases for their photographs, so using these commercially could get any number of people sued, but based on the instagram policy, it very well could be the user who took them initially, then "gave instagram permission to use them commercially."

      from the new policy:

      you agree that a business or other entity may pay us to display your ... photos

      I grew up in a semi-pro photography household and learning by osmosis I can tell you this is a horrifying legal minefield for anyone who doesn't have well documented model releases.

      Its exactly like a photo processor reserving the right to sell your photos to anyone they want if you develop film there, or a word processor author demanding the right to sell anything you type into the word processor to anyone they want. Crazy talk.

      I recognize you're using language so as not to be convicted of practicing law without a license, and I'm not a lawyer either, but it seems very obvious that you'd be absolutely insane to upload a pic of any human being other than yourself unless you've got signed model releases for unlimited unrestricted distribution.

      Its an interesting display of how technology sometimes creates minefields. If it cost my dad $1K or whatever worth of film and processing to make a file cabinet full of railroad industry stock footage photos, his adjacent filing cabinet full of model releases (mostly RR employees, some railfans, some museum visitors) and MOUs signed by corporate officers, etc, etc were worth at least $1K because they are what made his $1K of film stock worth $2K+ in the adjacent 3rd filing cabinet full of contracts to RR and model RR marketing/PR depts selling individual stock railroad photos. Now, with new technology you can make the equivalent of $1K worth of stock photos for "free" and you don't even need the fireproof film negative cabinet to store them, but rather than making it easier to be a semi-pro photographer all you're really going to do is get yourself sued into bankruptcy after not earning a penny of revenue. I don't think that's genuine progress and it seems the inevitable result of the new policy.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    6. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I was an instagram user, my first action after seeing this would be to delete my account.

      You realize deleting the account won't necessarily delete the photos and other metadata associated with the account? In any sane world it should but it may not in this case. That is what truly concerns me about this change.

    7. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >

      Its exactly like a photo processor reserving the right to sell your photos to anyone they want if you develop film there, or a word processor author demanding the right to sell anything you type into the word processor to anyone they want. Crazy talk.

      then don't get your film developed(prints made, whatever they call it now) there and don't use that word processor. I'm assuming this business/program

      This isn't hard, people. They can do whatever they want with their data with impunity. You gave your data to them by uploading it to their servers. It is THEIR data now. Don't give your data to people if you don't want them to abuse it.

    8. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      huh, i forgot to finish.
      . I'm assuming this business/program informed you they wanted the rights to your prints/words before you used them? Otherwise that is fraud. Instagram didn't sell the photos out from under people. They changed their TOS to allow them to sell them with no further notice. Don't agree to the new TOS? Stop using the service.

    9. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by Americano · · Score: 1

      From their current Terms of Service:

      [...]
      General Conditions

      1. We reserve the right to modify or terminate the Instagram service for any reason, without notice at any time.

      2. We reserve the right to alter these Terms of Use at any time. If the alterations constitute a material change to the Terms of Use, we will notify you via internet mail according to the preference expressed on your account. What constitutes a "material change" will be determined at our sole discretion, in good faith and using common sense and reasonable judgement.

      3. We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason at any time.

      And at the top of the page, is this notice: "We are updating our Terms of Use: Our updated Terms of Use will be effective on January 16, 2013," with a link to the updated terms of use, which include these new terms. They've held up their end of the terms - they notified you of a material change to the terms according to your preferences.

      So you've got about 1 month to delete your photos if you don't agree to the new Terms. And the old terms are fairly clear - you can't claim they buried this at the bottom of a million pages of legalese, it's maybe 2 printed pages worth of terms, most of which are written in pretty plain English. What I don't get is why this is such a shocking change for people, when the current terms of use include these two gems:

      Proprietary Rights in Content on Instagram

      1. Instagram does NOT claim ANY ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, applications, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post on or through the Instagram Services. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the Instagram Services, you hereby grant to Instagram a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, worldwide, limited license to use, modify, delete from, add to, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce and translate such Content, including without limitation distributing part or all of the Site in any media formats through any media channels, except Content not shared publicly ("private") will not be distributed outside the Instagram Services.

      2. Some of the Instagram Services are supported by advertising revenue and may display advertisements and promotions, and you hereby agree that Instagram may place such advertising and promotions on the Instagram Services or on, about, or in conjunction with your Content. The manner, mode and extent of such advertising and promotions are subject to change without specific notice to you.

      Emphasis added in both quotes above. I'm not sure that these new terms are substantially different in effect from the old terms, just seems that they've been made more *explicit* as to the effect - that "people may pay us to use your likeness, username, and other content in their ads."

    10. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by dbc · · Score: 1

      Does anything in the old terms of service say "copyright assignment"? Because you have a copyright in any photos that you upload. They can't just assign a license to themselves by changing TOS.

    11. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by thereitis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It should at *least* only apply to photos uploaded after the deadline. Applying this new policy retroactively should be illegal, frankly.

    12. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      2. We reserve the right to alter these Terms of Use at any time. If the alterations constitute a material change to the Terms of Use, we will notify you via internet mail according to the preference expressed on your account. What constitutes a "material change" will be determined at our sole discretion, in good faith and using common sense and reasonable judgement.

      And at the top of the page, is this notice: "We are updating our Terms of Use: Our updated Terms of Use will be effective on January 16, 2013," with a link to the updated terms of use, which include these new terms. They've held up their end of the terms - they notified you of a material change to the terms according to your preferences.

      Where's the email? Is it being sent out January 16 2013?

    13. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by Americano · · Score: 1

      They don't list a "required" time frame for the email, so even if it comes out on January 16, they'd still be satisfying their end of the bargain.

      Also, don't ignore the non-bold parts of the current terms of use:

      If the alterations constitute a material change to the Terms of Use [...] What constitutes a "material change" will be determined at our sole discretion, in good faith and using common sense and reasonable judgement.

      The current terms already grant them a worldwide royalty free license, so it's questionable whether this change represents a "material change" in any way - it makes the intended use more explicit, but they've always had the rights to do this, so... is a wording change that has no practical different effect a "material change" in the first place?

      I don't LIKE that they put this stuff in their terms in the first place, but this isn't a substantial change to their terms of use - they've ALWAYS had the right to do whatever they want with the stuff you upload, and they no particular obligation (and never have) to notify you or pay you or tell you what they're doing with it at any point.

    14. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by davesag · · Score: 1

      Simply set your IG feed to Private and voila. No problem. IG / FB will only repost / profit from your public photos. Going private also eliminates that scourge that is IG spam.

      --
      I used to have a better sig than this, but I got tired of it
    15. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by gnupun · · Score: 1

      I saw this yesterday, and was shocked. This is effectively stealing all users' photos that have been uploaded thus far, and a pretty sleazy thing to do even for new users.

      These are still crappy photos, nothing to fret much about. But I imagine the same thing will happen 5 or 10 years after cloud computing/storage takes off. The cloud storage provider will use your data in ways you don't like and that will be hidden in the fine print. People should be wary and suspicious of all cloud storage providers abusing your privacy.

    16. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by lennier · · Score: 1

      No rational user can expect to use a service allowing for *unlimited* unilateral policy changes that may occur at random points in the future.

      And once again, Welcome to the Cloud (tm). This is what you get when you follow a glib marketing trend which has no fundamental basis in reality.

      If you don't have technological means of control over the use of your data, don't expect legal means of control to be worth the electrons they're transmitted with.

      The concept of cloud computing isn't, in itself, fatally flawed. But the current stampede into putting everything online in proprietary, obfuscated, gated services without defining sensible encryption and backup protocols is.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    17. Re:This is a HUGE rights grab. by chrismcb · · Score: 1
      Isn't facebook ALREADY doing this?

      you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License).

      At one point you have them the right forever, now it is as long as you or your friends haven't deleted it.

  17. Nothing new here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This should not surprise anyone, as facebook does this already. Nothing to see here, move along!

  18. EULAs and online contracts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Contracts between online service vendors and consumers need to be regulated by law. There has to be some kind of way to define some bare minimums that these contracts adhere to. Such as, the terms of contract changes, ownership of data, etc.

    Either that, or online contracts should simply be invalid. In this case I suppose that the owners of the data (pictures) would own them.

    1. Re:EULAs and online contracts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The main problem with the creators of the images "owning" them is that copyright law is sufficiently borked, that Facebook can't legally display images without having permission from the copyright holder to do so. Thus they require you give them that permission when you make an account.

      Now since Facebook wants to be able to do things like: show your pictures to third parties they think will like them, and charge advertisers for the right to appear next to your pictures, they need to ask for rights to redistribute for commercial purposes at their sole discretion (it's not practical for you to approve every use given the timescales involved).

      Once you run that through a lawyer you get the usual scope creep, and general ass-hattery that lawyers always add, and bam: they're asking for full, non revocable rights and your first 3 children.

    2. Re:EULAs and online contracts by NettiWelho · · Score: 2

      Contracts between online service vendors and consumers need to be regulated by law. There has to be some kind of way to define some bare minimums that these contracts adhere to. Such as, the terms of contract changes, ownership of data, etc.

      Either that, or online contracts should simply be invalid. In this case I suppose that the owners of the data (pictures) would own them.

      In the EU you cannot simply sign away most of your rights and futhermore, if the law is in contradiction with the EULA its a case of 'too bad for the EULA', as in: its uneforcable. (you cannot legally enforce contract terms that are in contradiction of the law) So it is already regulated by law, atleast around here and the people enforcing it usually have no qualms about going about punishing a company that cant cant keep its tendrils within boundries of the law.

  19. Clarity? by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 1

    EFF's Opsahl says the new policy runs afoul of his group's voluntary best practices for social networks. He added: "Hopefully at some point we'll get greater clarity from Facebook and Instagram."

    Could they be any more clear? "We own everything, bwaa-haa-haa"?
    I'm sure this is just a polite way of saying, "What the f*ck do you think you are doing? Stop this sh*t now!".

    --
    All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
  20. Deleted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Deleted app from iPhone and iPads.

  21. I'm sure by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    "The new policy will come into effect on 16 January, just four months after Facebook completed its $1bn acquisition of Instagram"
    I'm sure the timing is a coincidence though.

  22. paid-privacy model-$5/month by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they need to have a $5/month keep-my-crap private mode.

    1. Re:paid-privacy model-$5/month by Cederic · · Score: 1

      ..or for rather less than that you can go to one of several professional photography sites that will host your photos and give you far more control over how.

      I wont name the one I use, although I'm sure they'd love me to. I upgraded to be a "Power User", and I'm only paying $40/year. For that I can use my own domain name, configure the site as I choose (layout, aesthetics, printing support, inclusion in blogs, etc) and still benefit from their hosting and photo presentation software (they provide multiple sizes, and/or let me restrict the ones that can be viewed/downloaded, and apply your aesthetics to their mobile version of the site so that people can see your photos on a mobile device - which with a 1280x768 screen is not the crap experience it used to be).

  23. Just uninstall it and delete your account by lsolano · · Score: 1

    I dont know what is the great thing about instagram. It's just an app to apply some filters used mostly to apply a vintage effect in a photo of a meal. I know people here on /. don't need someone -me- to help you how to find an app to replace instagram, but please let your friends know about EyeEm or Snapseed. Anyway, results are almost the same.

  24. WARNING by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My photos are copyrighted by me and if they do that, there will be an official takedown notice of Instagram and or facebook

  25. They want to sell them to your friends/enemies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Except loss making Internet scam Facebook, has the details of who your close friends, not so close friends, relatives and enemies are. Of those, you may only have Instagram'd your photo to your close friends, but the rest would pay to see it, particularly your unfrienermies.

    Facebook recently stopped letting Instagram photos be posted around freely, starting with Twitter. So it's only a matter of time before they sell access to your photos. The only people interested are friends, former friends and stalkers who didn't receive it. Since most people have their privacy rights changed by Facebook without them knowing it, they don't know Facebook has probably already given themselves the rights to show those photos outside your account, unless you press button Z twice on page broken link.

    Facebook recently started selling 'adverts', so if you have money and want to send information to your following friends, you need to pay or they won't see it. In effect it is selling you the relationship you made and it broke. This is the flip side of that.

    You see that it's not about selling photos to random people, because random people aren't interested in how drunk you were at a bar last night. Your boss on the other hand.. Your wife... Your angry ex-unfriended girlfriend. Or even for that matter your mum, who you decided didn't really need to see that, but FB knows she wants to look anyway.

    1. Re:They want to sell them to your friends/enemies by Sentrion · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Normally I would dismiss your concerns as paranoid, but this summer Facebook asked for my phone number so I could restore my account if I ever forgot my password or got locked out. Then this fall FB made my phone number searchable, so anyone could enter my digits in the FB search bar and pull up my name, complete list of FB friends, and other details. I keep my cell number unlisted for a reason, and for FB to constantly change privacy settings without warning with default setting to "public", I wouldn't trust FB to sweep my sidewalks, let alone manage my interpersonal relationships. Of course, FB makes these sort of drastic changes every three months, so I should have known better.

      Recently I just unfriended most of my FB "friends", such as ex-classmates I barely knew as a teenager and don't really want to know now. I have maximum privacy settings in place, but again I don't trust FB to keep anything private anyway, so now I only keep a FB page as a beacon for acquaintances and colleagues to find me so I can exchange real contact info like email or maybe phone numbers, while screening out the weirdos I want nothing to do with. I have family that wouldn't understand my valid reasons for dropping them from FB, so I just keep them there as "friends" for their own amusement, but I do not post status updates and my profile is very watered down so as not to present all my personal life to the whole world, advertising companies, or governments.

      There was a time when it was explicitly understood NEVER to give away personal details, such as your real name, birthday, age, or location over the internet. I'm shocked and amazed how FB totally flipped that concept and now controls everybody's personal address book.

    2. Re:They want to sell them to your friends/enemies by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Hey, you don't pay for the service. Now you're bartering with your pictures. How about this: you pay a fee to use instagram.

      Web sites have revenue-generating bullshit because people won't pay an individual toll to drive down each individual road. Why don't you have a paid Google account, paid Facebook, paid Twitter, paid WSJ, paid NYT, paid Yahoo, paid Failblog, paid Wikipedia, and paid Epicurious account?

    3. Re:They want to sell them to your friends/enemies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here, here.

      I've had enough of all of this and have deactivated my account. I don't think I'll ever see a reason to go back.

      It may be too late (in part), but since I haven't put much on my profile anyway, it can only be better to cut the cord now than later.

    4. Re:They want to sell them to your friends/enemies by Cederic · · Score: 1

      I do pay for my photo site. I pay for the domain name used to find it too.

      Oh, and I pay for my own email server, I'm happy for my work to be used on wikipedia and I contribute to various online communities free of charge. I even help pay runnings costs for some of them.

      I don't use fucking facebook. I also own my own photos. Which is nice.

    5. Re:They want to sell them to your friends/enemies by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Well, their agreement doesn't magically give them the legal authority to take your photos from other places when you haven't even signed up for their service.

  26. Model rights by magic+maverick+ · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is despicable of course. And Instagram/Facebook needs to clearly and loudly (e.g. a click through notice when you login, and every day later until the 16th) explains this change in the ToS, and explains what it means (in plain English, not lawyer speak). But I bet they don't.

    Anyway, any pictures with identifiable images of people in them could be a problem for whichever company purchases the image. Because of model rights you know? If an ad is run which has a person who is clearly identifiable, then in most places a model release is required. And I bet you that Instragram doesn't require that photographers have people sign model releases...

    Oh, and the blog post:

    Our community has grown a lot since we wrote our original terms of service. To get things up to date for the millions of people now using Instagram, we’re bringing you new versions of our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service.

    Here are a few key updates:

    • Nothing has changed about your photos’ ownership or who can see them.
             
    • Our updated privacy policy helps Instagram function more easily as part of Facebook by being able to share info between the two groups. This means we can do things like fight spam more effectively, detect system and reliability problems more quickly, and build better features for everyone by understanding how Instagram is used.
           
    • Our updated terms of service help protect you, and prevent spam and abuse as we grow.

    This is just a small preview. Our new Privacy Policy and Terms of Service will be effective on January 16, 2013.

    We know these documents are a little dry, but they’re very important. Please take a moment to read through them so you keep feeling comfortable sharing your beautiful photos on Instagram.

    A bit of a lie really. The key point from the various articles is:

    Instagram does not claim ownership of any Content that you post on or through the Service. Instead, you hereby grant to Instagram a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, transferable, sub-licensable, worldwide license to use the Content that you post on or through the Service, except that you can control who can view certain of your Content and activities on the Service as described in the Service's Privacy Policy, available here: http://instagram.com/legal/privacy/.
    Some or all of the Service may be supported by advertising revenue. To help us deliver interesting paid or sponsored content or promotions, you agree that a business or other entity may pay us to display your username, likeness, photos (along with any associated metadata), and/or actions you take, in connection with paid or sponsored content or promotions, without any compensation to you. If you are under the age of eighteen (18), or under any other applicable age of majority, you represent that at least one of your parents or legal guardians has also agreed to this provision (and the use of your name, likeness, username, and/or photos (along with any associated metadata)) on your behalf.

    http://instagram.com/about/legal/terms/updated/

    You can express your disapproval of these changes by emailing support@instagram.com.

    --
    HELP MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HACKED BY AN ILLIBERAL ART STUDENT SET TO DESTROY THE INTERWEBZ!
    1. Re:Model rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      transferable, sub-licensable

      I guess this is the worst part. Transferable might just cover if Instagram was bought, but sub-licensable really is not necessary unless they're planning to do what they're talking about now.

    2. Re:Model rights by Immerial · · Score: 4, Informative

      Anyway, any pictures with identifiable images of people in them could be a problem for whichever company purchases the image. Because of model rights you know? If an ad is run which has a person who is clearly identifiable, then in most places a model release is required. And I bet you that Instragram doesn't require that photographers have people sign model releases...

      Actually their terms covers them...

      Under Basic Terms (7, 8)...

      1. You may not use the Service for any illegal or unauthorized purpose. You agree to comply with all laws, rules and regulations (for example, federal, state, local and provincial) applicable to your use of the Service and your Content (defined below), including but not limited to, copyright laws.
      2. You are solely responsible for your conduct and any data, text, files, information, usernames, images, graphics, photos, profiles, audio and video clips, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, applications, links and other content or materials (collectively, "Content") that you submit, post or display on or via the Service.

      and under Rights (4, 8)...

      1. You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on or through the Service or otherwise have the right to grant the rights and licenses set forth in these Terms of Use; (ii) the posting and use of your Content on or through the Service does not violate, misappropriate or infringe on the rights of any third party, including, without limitation, privacy rights, publicity rights, copyrights, trademark and/or other intellectual property rights; (iii) you agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies owed by reason of Content you post on or through the Service; and (iv) you have the legal right and capacity to enter into these Terms of Use in your jurisdiction.
      1. You agree that Instagram is not responsible for, and does not endorse, Content posted within the Service. Instagram does not have any obligation to prescreen, monitor, edit, or remove any Content. If your Content violates these Terms of Use, you may bear legal responsibility for that Content.

      Basically they are saying that all the pictures you've posted are supposed to be free of any issues. If they are not, they are not responsible... you are.

      Basically, if they get sued, you get left holding the bag.

      So not only they can make money off of you, they give you all the risk.

    3. Re:Model rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are under the age of eighteen (18), or under any other applicable age of majority, you represent that at least one of your parents or legal guardians has also agreed to this provision (and the use of your name, likeness, username, and/or photos (along with any associated metadata)) on your behalf.

      If you are under the age of eighteen (18), or under any other applicable age of majority, you cannot legally make that representation. That's the whole point of requiring your parents or legal guardians to agree to things on your behalf.

    4. Re:Model rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize you've given them this right for ages...right!?

      Old TOU: Instagram does NOT claim ANY ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, applications, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post on or through the Instagram Services. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the Instagram Services, you hereby grant to Instagram a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, worldwide, limited license to use, modify, delete from, add to, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce and translate such Content, including without limitation distributing part or all of the Site in any media formats through any media channels, except Content not shared publicly ("private") will not be distributed outside the Instagram Services.

      You've already given the a non-exclusive, transferrable, fully paid and royalty free worldwide license...

    5. Re:Model rights by Guido+von+Guido+II · · Score: 1

      The intended use of an image makes a big difference. An Instagram user could make the case that their image was free of legal issues when posted for personal use but not when the image was used in some multinational's worldwide advertising campaign. Model releases don't play a role in images for personal use. (Not that I'd put any of my own images on Facebook or Instagram.)

    6. Re:Model rights by thoromyr · · Score: 1

      dear god. Don't they have lawyers review these? "If you are under the age of eighteen (18), or under any other applicable age of majority, you represent..." um, minors can't enter into contracts? WTF?

    7. Re:Model rights by magic+maverick+ · · Score: 1

      The difference between having the OK from a person to put a photo on a website (generally not needed) and having the OK to use a photo of a person to advertise a product (generally needed) is huge.

      I can sell or give away photos as I like. However, as soon as I start using a photo of a person to advertise, I am implying that they are endorsing the product. And that's when the model release comes into effect.

      --
      HELP MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HACKED BY AN ILLIBERAL ART STUDENT SET TO DESTROY THE INTERWEBZ!
    8. Re:Model rights by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Wait. What?

      If you are under the age of eighteen (18), or under any other applicable age of majority, you represent that at least one of your parents or legal guardians has also agreed to this provision (and the use of your name, likeness, username, and/or photos (along with any associated metadata)) on your behalf.

      How can you agree to something legally if you AREN'T an adult in the first place? So, as a minor, you can legally agree to state you aren't an adult and your mom agrees with everything you do on the site?

      How does that work?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    9. Re:Model rights by magic+maverick+ · · Score: 1

      Evil thought:
      The way to get model releases is to have a clause in the ToS like:
      "You allow us to use your likeness in advertisements and to sub-license this right to others, without any compensation to you."

      Except obviously make it broader and more lawyer-speak like.

      Then, only sell photos of people if they are members of the site (they will be 'tagged' in the photo by a helpful 'friend'). Should weed out most of the problems.

      --
      HELP MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HACKED BY AN ILLIBERAL ART STUDENT SET TO DESTROY THE INTERWEBZ!
  27. A good day for the lawyers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whatever fb will do with the pictures, if there is a company that already does similar stuff, it can sue fb for abusing their monopoly in the social network market to dominate other markets.

  28. Will read all terms and conditions properly. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This makes me rethink before simply accepting terms and conditions without reading on any online website.

  29. Standard Facebook 4 Steps Forward 1 Step back by 2phar · · Score: 1

    approach to eliminating personal privacy. It creates another big bru-ha-ha in the media (useful for brand awareness) which then dies down after a few weeks, and then it's business as usual. How far has facebook twisted its own 'privacy' policy by now compared to how it started? It's just amazing how easy they are getting away with slowly boiling the lobster.

  30. AAPL HAS CRASHED !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sell if you can !!

    1. Re:AAPL HAS CRASHED !! by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Sell if you can !!

      That's gravity, you idiot.

      Old news.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  31. But - but but... by Progman3K · · Score: 3, Funny

    But I posted that disclaimer on Facebook expressly forbidding them to do that

    --
    I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
  32. Licensing minefield? by Miamicanes · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How can Instagram casually assume that the uploader even HAS the right to assign republishing rights to them? OK, fine... the TOS requires that uploaders have the rights. We all know that a certain percentage won't comply. How many times does Instagram really want to spin the roulette wheel and risk getting nailed by a lawsuit from someone who owns the copyright on a wrongly-uploaded photo... in a strict-liability jurisdiction with joint and several liability? In English, that means Jim might, under Instagram TOS, be 100% liable for infringement if he uploads a photo and gets Instagram sued when they republish it, but at the end of the day, Jim isn't going to pay that million-dollar lawsuit... Instagram will, because Jim is likely to be judgment-proof, and any halfway-competent attorney could get the judgment to adhere to Instagram regardless of what they might claim.

    Not to mention, model releases. If Jim posts pictures taken at a birthday party his child attends, Instagram would legally need releases from every person (or their legal guardian) recognizable in the picture (with a few exceptions, but it's still a minefield).

    Did I mention the legal suicide mission of using pics that have anything to DO with kids from Europe? I think in Germany, it's not even legal to use kids in an advertisement for anything, period... consent from fame-whoring parents or not. Or for that matter, the fact that fucked up French copyright law allows you to copyright the image of buildings and structures, even structures that dominate the horizon and are visible from literally miles away (like the Eiffel Tower and the Millau Viaduct), and (in legal theory, at least) make it almost impossible to publish photos taken almost anywhere in Paris (due to the large number of "historically and/or architecturally-significant structures") if they show a complete building facade of one or more buildings in the background? Granted, the French situation is slightly unique, and is used mainly by the French government as a tool for censorship of unflattering and politically-sensitive images, but that's just one country out of hundreds.

    There's a reason why big corporations get all of their public photos from companies like Getty Images -- it lets their management and lawyers sleep at night knowing that the copyright clearances and model releases have all been taken care of, and the image vendor itself is big enough to pay any lawsuit that might arise from the photo's licensed use. It's also why some people have had so much fun showing the same clip-art models really getting around, and showing up in everything from ads to "happy employee" photos to patients at STD clinics.

    1. Re:Licensing minefield? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was just in Germany. They can definitely use kids in advertising. That is all.

    2. Re:Licensing minefield? by tatman · · Score: 1

      I would assume Instagram plans to mitigate the risk of reselling already otherwise copyrighted material unlawfully uploaded by a user by building libraries of images to be sold and doing their due diligence before providing their paying customers with access to the library. So in other words, they will pick and chose which images are available for resale. And, therefore become a competitor to Getty and other competitors by effectively sequestering users uploads. If some one is paying for the images, it would be easy to cover the costs of adding some due diligence.

      As for the model releases etc, the users effectively give up that right with the new terms of service.

      --
      I've always said English was my second language. Had Romeo and Juliet been written in C, I might have understood it.
    3. Re:Licensing minefield? by Sentrion · · Score: 1

      Actually, I hope FB exploits this to the maximum degree possible and cause such a public outrage that it implodes and goes the way of MySpace.

    4. Re:Licensing minefield? by Lithdren · · Score: 1

      As for the model releases etc, the users effectively give up that right with the new terms of service.

      umm..no.

      Someone takes a picture of me, unknowingly, and publishes the picture to Instagram. That user can agree and sign whatever they want, you still need a model release, from me, to use it.

      Someone else cannot sign my rights away.

    5. Re:Licensing minefield? by tatman · · Score: 1

      I'd like to think your right. My paranoia says in this day and age, don't count on it.

      --
      I've always said English was my second language. Had Romeo and Juliet been written in C, I might have understood it.
  33. McCullagh's wife works for Google with options by cornicefire · · Score: 2, Informative

    He shouldn't be writing about this without disclosing his conflict of interest. Heck, she shouldn't be writing about this. Google does its own evil things with users' content.

  34. is this the usual british media sensationalism ? by dan_in_dublin · · Score: 1

    facebook needs the right to distribute photos in order to let people access them in a news feed. i havent read the instagram terms and conditions but google docs contains a similar right to distribute. however google explicitly say they use this right only to support the functionality of google docs, they dont seek to own your content

  35. Communist, social nitwits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not surprised by this, once someone makes money stealing others, web sites. It is almost a guarantee they will buy out technology, (thinking it is worth something) then butt fuck anyone else out of there say.

    Taking there examples from Asshole (Apple), and MicroShit...

  36. damn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now we'll have to find a new boobwatch site.

  37. Flickr now has iPhone app and always had privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So you could take pics and upload from iphone and then share on facebook or wherever, and control your pics better.

  38. The consumer's ONE right: Use your feet. by benro03 · · Score: 1

    If you don't like what a business has done to you (or not done), the one thing you can do to show them your displeasure is to vote with your feet. And then tell everyone you did and why. It's a hard fact that 95% of customers that receive bad service never complain to the vendor, they just leave and tell everyone what happened. That means that for every one of us complaining to Instagram and Facebook, there are 19 others that are leaving and telling their friends about the crappy service they got.

    I deleted my Instagram account yesterday since I hardly used it and I wasn't about to let any of my pictures be used by ANYONE without my permission. I've also curtailed my Facebook use drastically, deleting them from my Mac and phone since I realized all the "appointments" that were cropping up on my WORK calendar were coming from them.

    --
    I am Homer of Borg, resistance is - Ooo Donuts!
  39. Beginning of the end.... by erp_consultant · · Score: 1

    These so called "social" websites are a fraud. Nobody reads these terms of service and they know it. They don't have any legitimate way of making money so they steal what you upload and sell it. Nice business model. Just because they give me a few megs of space on their server should not mean that they retain full ownership rights to my pictures. If that's their terms of service fine, but I'm not playing that game.

  40. Conundrum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what happens if you upload someone else's photo to the service, then that photo is sold and re-used without the original artist's permission. I would presume that Instagram would be at fault, since they sold the content.

    1. Re:Conundrum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instagram might be on the hook for some damages after selling use of an image that way; And then they would turn around and sue you to recoup their costs, because by uploading and agreeing to the terms of service, you asserted that you owned all necessary rights to grant them their worldwide license - thus YOU misrepresented your rights to the image to them, and they took your assertion at face value.

      Since you lied, you defrauded them. Since you defrauded them, they can turn around and come after you for the damages your fraudulent claims did to them.

  41. Does Slashdot sell our comments? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hello world.

  42. Instagram is worth how much? by Stormthirst · · Score: 1

    I never understood why Instagram is supposedly worth so much

    Could someone explain this to me?

    I can see why FB are trying to claw that back by douchebag moves like this.

    1. Re:Instagram is worth how much? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Worth so much? You've got me. However, I do use Instagram and like their service. I don't waste my time with the filters, but Instagram is an easy way to upload photos and get quick feedback from people ("likes" and/or comments) on those photos. However, the TOS change is likely going to drive me off the service. By uploading my photos, I give them permission to host them, not sell them. I sometimes post photos of my kids and, if they want to sell the photo, they'd better get my permission (which will entail giving me a cut of the sales).

      I get that they want to monetize the photos. That's fine in general. The service needs to earn money to pay for itself. However, the way to do this would be to give people the option to opt-in to a monetization service. Then, give companies who want to buy photos an easy way to look through the "for sale" pictures. If a company likes a photo, they can make an offer to the user, the user can counter or accept, and then company can pay the user through Instagram. Instagram would take a cut and both the user and Instagram would profit.

      A system like this would mean no user photos would be sold without the user's permission and Instagram could still make money. But if they persist with the "we're going to sell your photos no matter your preference", then "my preference" will be to delete my Instagram account and post my photos on my blog (self hosted Wordpress). There might even be some Wordpress apps that help me make my posted photos "more social."

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  43. So glad I never used this by assertation · · Score: 1

    I'm so glad I never got around to using that service.

    I'll stick with my privately hosted blog where I control all of the material.

  44. Usage license != model release by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just because you've granted a license (through TOS, etc) to a third party, so they can use material for which you still retain the copyrights ... does NOT mean that the subjects in the photos have waived their privacy rights. Third parties looking to use the images commercially (NOT the photographer!) are the ones responsible for having that signed model release in hand, and are the targets for a suit in case of mis-using someone's likeness. Doesn't mean the pissed off subject won't also sue the photographer (because you can sue the proverbial ham sandwich, if you want), but the law is very clear in this area. The party that puts the image to commercial use is the one that needs the release in hand. It's not the photographer's responsibility to obtain it, keep it, or provide it to anyone (unless they've signed a contract with a third party that calls for them to do so ... but that's very specific, professional circumstances).

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    1. Re:Usage license != model release by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      There is an amazingly easy way around this. Model rights are predicated on being able to accurately discern who the person is. If you shoot a bunch of people who are in the background and not personally identifiable, then you do not need model releases, even for commercial work (you might want to get them, it would give you some flexibility, but you don't need them).

      All you need to do with the already modified, low resolution, out of focus, blurred picture that some clown uploaded to Instagram is to modify the facial features enough to make that person not 'readily' identifiable. Could probably do that automatically, certainly could do it manually in a few seconds. Poof. No model release needed.....

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  45. Human Cendipede... by tekrat · · Score: 5, Funny

    If you read a little further down in the EULA, it also says they have the right to perform medical experiments on you, including making you part of a human centipede...

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    1. Re:Human Cendipede... by Assmasher · · Score: 1

      You had me at ManBearPig...

      --
      Loading...
    2. Re:Human Cendipede... by docilespelunker · · Score: 1

      Well I was going to delete my account but now you mention that, I might just keep it.

    3. Re:Human Cendipede... by partyguerrilla · · Score: 1

      100% Medically accurate.

  46. Re:Licensing minefield? oppertunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    how can we provoke them to fail? we must upload strange unseen images of celebrities with powerful lawyers.... think taylor swift at 10 years
    old or demi moore in a halloween costume so you cant quite tell its her.... powerful people that are hard to immediately identify
    but who have deadly powerful lawyers who fight anyone over anything.... turn them on instagram.... we need people to claim that
    images of the president in college are really images of them (fake profile) etc....

  47. You're both correct. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    They won't own them, as the Terms make explicitly clear. At the same time, you "grant to Instagram a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, transferable, sub-licensable, worldwide license to use the Content that you post on or through the Service".

    So, yes, you still own your photos, and yes, they can do anything they want with them.

    1. Re:You're both correct. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, no they can't. Internet companies CAN have TOS that make possible the service itself- ie., the recognition that the Internet works by storing, duplicating, and distributing content. This is NOT the same as saying Internet companies are allowed TOS that are designed to steal user owned content.

      You may place a note above your door saying that you have the right to have sex with any woman that passes through, but try to exercise your TOS 'rights', and you will be looking at a prison door for the rest of your life.

      The moment that a contract is identified as being unreasonable by design, it is effectively junk. Despite what dribbling Yanks are told, contract law is not some sort of joke or game. Contract law exists to service essential principles within society, and its abuse is NEVER tolerated by governments.

      If Facebook wants commercial rights to the photos of its users, it is going to have to PAY for those rights like everyone else. And no, you dimbulbs, the 'free' services provided by Facebook will never count as 'payment'.

  48. Agreed. by Andy+Prough · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The SHOCKING thing would be if FB did NOT do this.

  49. Model releases will be downfall by davidwr · · Score: 1

    If I'm under 18 and upload a photo, Instagram may ask me to certify that I have a model release on everyone in the photo, but that won't hold up in court.

    If Instagram uses the photos commercially without a model release, the person in the picture can sue Instagram for big bucks. Instagram can cancel my account, but it's very doubtful they could sue me. Even if they did, good luck collecting.

    Even if I am over 18, if I am so poor as to be "judgment proof" Instagram could wind up paying out big bucks to people who are in the photos.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  50. Haha Dumbasses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You all fell for it so enjoy it.

  51. Instagram was paid in Facebook shares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're not worth $1 billion. Instagram were bought using mostly Facebook shares and $300 million in cash. It wasn't even worth the $300 million, but there were reasons why they bought it.

    Facebook had an IPO coming up, to establish its shares had value, they decided to buy something with shares. Since Facebook had been making losses, its shares could be worthless if people believed they're worthless. So it bought Instagram for ONE BILLION DOLLARS (small print: mostly shares of Facebook). To seal the deal they paid $300 million in cash, since of course Instagram backers are not stupid, they know the game!

    Thus Facebook establishes that it's shares have a worth, and Instagram do a big marketing and PR exercise giving third party validation to Facebooks IPO worth. Instagram of course, have nothing to lose. They've sold a small business for $300 million and all they have to do for that is back up Facebooks claim of value. For them it was a win-win

    Facebook goes to market, pulls in tens of billions, despite being a loss making business whose most popular thing is a Farm game they don't own, and the investors have buyers remorse.

    Similar to a mock auction, except that instead of being arrested and thrown in jail, the head of the Fed does a speech in your honor for pumping an asset bubble.

  52. Re:The consumer's ONE right: Use your feet. by EmagGeek · · Score: 0

    Actually, that is not a right. And, in fact, SCOTUS ruled as much earlier this year by upholding Obamacare, and saying that people can be coerced to purchase something by taxation - having to pay a tax for refusing to purchase something.

    So, in essence, you don't have a right to vote with your wallet.

  53. Sell vs. Use by perlith · · Score: 1
    From the change in the TOS:

    Some or all of the Service may be supported by advertising revenue. To help us deliver interesting paid or sponsored content or promotions, you agree that a business or other entity may pay us to display your username, likeness, photos (along with any associated metadata), and/or actions you take, in connection with paid or sponsored content or promotions, without any compensation to you

    .
    Am I misreading this? It doesn't look like Instagram is selling your data, only changing how they may use it.

    i.e. Instagram is choosing to your use existing data as a part of targeted advertisements delivered to you. They are _NOT_ selling the data to advertisers, but instead saying to advertisers "Here's the types of data we have, you tell us how you want it displayed when your ads come up". As another Slashdotter already mentioned, "Hey Mike, Dave just got back from an awesome trip to Rome!". The service could grab a picture of you, grab a picture of Dave from his recent Rome trip, and do some swapping of bodies in the pictures. Then inject a message of "Image yourself enjoying Rome like Dave did".

    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but if I'm reading this correctly this is a pretty smart move. Instagram holds the data, the advertisers link to the data, but do not have a copy of it. They avoid all of the legal issues by not selling the data, and, make more money in the process.

  54. oK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They take the rights, but do they also take the responsibilities?

  55. Part of the reason by kilodelta · · Score: 1

    I never bought into the Instagram app is that I knew this crap would happen. Now I do upload photos directly to Facebook and I'm concerned about rights there.

    But I like how flickr does it - I can set attributions on the photos and I've actually sold a few photos on that site and I got the profit.

  56. Just Like Lando and the Cloud City by CMYKjunkie · · Score: 5, Funny

    "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further!" -- Darth Zuckerberg

    1. Re:Just Like Lando and the Cloud City by Asmodae · · Score: 1

      I'm stealing this quote!

  57. So they can sell our pictures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But, we can't downlaod their movies..... not fair :)

  58. Re:Licensing minefield? oppertunity by tatman · · Score: 1

    overwhelm the system with uploads of already copyrighted material ;)

    --
    I've always said English was my second language. Had Romeo and Juliet been written in C, I might have understood it.
  59. An "I told you so" moment by RazorSharp · · Score: 1

    My friends think I'm weird because I won't let people take my picture. I tell them about social networking sites and facial recognition technology and how the only way to stay out of the system is to abstain completely.

    Social networking sites are like Africa. Facebook is HIV, MySpace is Hepatitis, and Google+ is some parasite that you never realize you've contracted but stays with you for the rest of your life. Okay, non-car analogies are difficult. The point is, when in Africa, keep your dick in your pants. When on the internet, keep your personal information away from the infectious diseases that are social networking sites. Sadly, it's gotten to a point where a crappy cell phone picture of you might as well be your social security number.

    --
    "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
  60. Now it's time for a little game we call... by MitchDev · · Score: 1

    Hoedown!

    1. Re:Now it's time for a little game we call... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please note that the parent's comment is child to a thread specifically about strip joints.

    2. Re:Now it's time for a little game we call... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Please note that the parent's comment is child to a thread specifically about strip joints.

      Think of the children!

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  61. Re:There's no free lunch? by hazah · · Score: 1

    If you bothered reading what people are posting, you'd realize that this is not what the concern is.

  62. This is new? by WillgasM · · Score: 1

    Not that I ever read the TOS before agreeing to them, but I always just kinda assumed it would have some sort of broad language saying "you relinquish all rights to everything, ever". Isn't that pretty much what they all say?

  63. No account by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    I have no FaceBook account, and I don't know what Instygram is. Should I be worried, because I'm not.

  64. Interesting Digital Rights issue.... by erp_consultant · · Score: 1

    All this Instagram and Facebook stuff raises a very interesting, and as yet unresolved, issue. What exactly are your digital rights on the internet? Who owns your digital image? How can it be used? Can it be used without your explicit permission?

    If I were to follow someone around long enough I would probably be able to snap a picture of them scratching their ass or picking their nose. What's to stop me from publicly posting that image for the express intention of embarrassing that person? Currently...nothing. What if I were to take the original picture and doctor it up so that your ears look huge or your eyes are crossed or I put some fake acne on your face and then publish it? The possibilities are endless.

    If I write a book or a document or some code I can copyright that material so that others cannot steal it. But I cannot copyright my likeness. Some advertising firm could troll through Instagram photos and find a picture of someone that might look right for their latest ad campaign. Then they superimpose the person's face in the magazine ad and - bingo - instant ad copy and they don't have to pay you a dime. It's unfair, it's immoral and it's an invasion of privacy.

    1. Re:Interesting Digital Rights issue.... by Cederic · · Score: 1

      All very interesting points, but luckily they're almost all covered by laws that predate the Internet.

      Don't harass people, it's illegal. Don't commercially exploit someone's image, it's approximately illegal (ask a lawyer). Don't doctor a photo of someone to defame them, it's actionable. Don't invade their privacy, it's illegal.

      Stick to ERPs :)

    2. Re:Interesting Digital Rights issue.... by erp_consultant · · Score: 1

      Hahaha...well, ERP is certainly a better place for me :-)

      But in all seriousness, I'm not so sure that these issues are as cut and dried as you present them to be. The fact that these laws predate the Internet concerns me. Sometimes they actually have to be challenged in court to see if they still hold up.

  65. Why? by CimmerianX · · Score: 2

    How's that Facebook Cloud working for ya now??? I've never had one, never will. Because of shit like this. People always ask me "why aren't you on facebook?" Maybe this will convince them I was right.

    1. Re:Why? by ELCouz · · Score: 1

      Why so much hate ???

  66. Re:There's no free lunch? by JoeSchmoe999 · · Score: 1

    So what you are saying is that the "ad supported" business model fails and Instagram shouldn't have started up in the first place?

    --
    You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
  67. The 'commercial' part is going to come back to hau by ralatalo · · Score: 1

    The 'commercial' part is going to come back to haunt them. The rules for commercial use are so different than for non-commercial use. They will shut down the commercial aspect the first time one of the following happens:

    1) A user takes a picture of a person who did not consent to commercial use of their likeness. (something that is not needed for the original individual to post for non-commercial use)

    2) A photographer gives an individual a photograph without license for commercial use and that someone posts the photograph with consent for non-commercial purposes and it's used a third-party for commercial purposes.

    In each of the above cases the up-loader was within their rights and the commercial publisher can't get an appropriate license because the up-loader didn't have the appropriate permissions.

    The commercial publisher is going to be the target of the law suits and they won't be able to use the defense of any license because the up-loader didn't have the appropriate license to transfer. They can try and sue Instagram to recover damages and Instagram may try to sue the original up-loader, but I can't see that getting very far. (not for lack of trying as much as for lack of money and original usage not violating the usage.

    Examples of case one.. I was in Story Land a few years back, and this young woman had a frown on her face, I can only image she wanted to be somewhere else.. anyway, I took a picture of her on one of the rides with this huge frown and arms folded across her chest. (not that anyone would want to use her photo as a advertisement for the story land, but I think it falls under editorial if not artistic use... but I have no right to use her image for commercial purposes, so can't give that right to anyone else)

    Example for case two, both of my kids school pictures included a small sized digital image which was explicitly licensed for non-commercial usage. So I was within my rights to use it non-commercial. posting it so relatives could see them. ( as I didn't get a commercial right I can't transfer one)

    Even if I used Instagram (which I don't), even if I am agreeing that by uploading an image I transfer all rights, I can't transfer what I don't own. Commercial publisher sues, Instagram, Instagram sues me .... I doubt it, and the Commercial Publisher has no relationship with me, so they can't sue me. Even if I was sued, I can't believe any judge would find against me as I didn't attempt any commercial usage and even if they did.... They would likely spend more on the legals fees than they would ever see from me.

    I would normally say, no 'legit' commercial publisher is going to purchase and use a photograph for commercial use without a firm release signed, etc.... but there this case not that long ago.. and many similar ones since then....

    http://www.flickr.com/groups/central/discuss/72157600541608353/

  68. No, it doesn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FTFA:

    "Some or all of the service may be supported by advertising revenue. To help us deliver interesting paid or sponsored content or promotions, you agree that a business or other entity may pay us to display your username, likeness, photos (along with any associated metadata), and/or actions you take, in connection with paid or sponsored content or promotions, without any compensation to you" explain the new Terms of Service

    This means, not only your photos, but your name, location and comments could be sold by Facebook to third-parties.

    I don't think "pay us to show you things that have been uploaded to Instagram" == "sell your photos, name, location, and comments to third parties".

    Sensationalist article not only has an annoying video, it's also wrong.

    1. Re:No, it doesn't by Cederic · · Score: 1

      I don't think "pay us to show you things that have been uploaded to Instagram" == "sell your photos, name, location, and comments to third parties".

      Perhaps, but the what you quoted does.

      a business or other entity may pay us to display your username, likeness, photos [...] in connection with paid or sponsored content or promotions

      Nowhere does it restrict those promotions to Instagram, and it's pretty hard to be "a business or other entity" without being a third party in that context.

      Or to quote Instagram's Terms of Use,

      you hereby grant to Instagram a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, transferable, sub-licensable, worldwide license to use the Content that you post on or through the Service

      A royalty-free, transferable, sub-licensable, worldwide licence is exactly

      "sell your photos, name, location, and comments to third parties".

      Sensationalist article appears to be spot on.

  69. They that own the hardware, own the data. by gessel · · Score: 1

    If you want to retain ownership of your data, host it on your own server.

  70. All your faces belong to us. by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

    Sorry.

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  71. dingdingding by zlives · · Score: 2

    "That seems narcissistic"

  72. RFC: FB/IP by istartedi · · Score: 1

    TODO...

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  73. Automation: Guaranteed LOLtastic results! by sootman · · Score: 1

    "Here's a pic of your roommate Dave dipping his balls in T.G.I. FRIDAY'S NEW ZESTY POMEGRANATE RANCH SAUCE! Don't you want to "get some" at T.G.I. FRIDAY'S today?"

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  74. You paid what to use Instagram? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh, nothing??? When will people get the clue that anything that is given to you for free probably costs somebody something, and therefore the odds of somebody making money off the freebie you got approaches unity if it is a corporation giving it to you?

    Duh, people! Am I really that much of a supergenius for being able to say, "No Shit, Sherlock!"

  75. Why dont you Creative Commons? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bet the people who are complaining are the same who download pirate mp3.

    I understand that Facebook wants to monetize your photos. But think on this: after you publishing on the Internet in an environment that was available 'for free', you expect to be the owner of these photos?

    So how about thinking different and having your photos published in a free format? Having your photos available to people without worrying about what they will do?

    Maybe then you will improve your life quality reducing your worries, your stress and moreover helping to create a more creative world!

  76. Why I will never go "Cloud." by GrantRobertson · · Score: 2

    Folks can forget about deleting all their pictures from the site. I guarantee they were archived before the announcement was made. They probably have the ever-popular "Only individual binding arbitration" agreement as well.

    The internet stopped being the "Wild West" and became feudal Europe a long time ago.

  77. Free Lunch by timmyf2371 · · Score: 1

    In the 90s/00s I used to have my own website. I designed it myself, wrote the HTML and paid for web hosting so I could avoid Geocities. I uploaded my photos and shared the link with friends via email.

    These days, I just don't have the time anymore and after a long day at work, the last thing I want to do is sit coding all evening just to upload a new album. So I share holiday snaps etc via Facebook and amusing pics via Twitter (different audiences). It's easy because someone else has done the hard work.

    As everyone knows, there is no such thing as a free lunch and so developers and support staff must get paid. My understanding is that Instagram intends to do this by monetising the content users upload. The problem with today's society is that we don't want to pay people for their hard work, but we also don't want them to come up with innovative solutions like this which will allow them to keep their services to the end user.

    I don't personally use Instagram but I do use Facebook and Twitter. I'm happy to keep uploading because I am too lazy to roll my own solution. I've given advice to my immediate family about finding HTML tutorials and inexpensive web hosts but strangely they don't seem to like the idea...

    --

    Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
  78. No Problem Here by pod · · Score: 1

    I don't see a problem with this.

    If you want to be paid for your pictures, host them with a stock photography site that will pay you money when they sell your picture. Or if you want your valued pictures private, and they are actually valued, stop using shitty free services, and pay a couple bucks for real hosting.

    --
    "Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
  79. How much does a hipster weigh? by m1ndcrash · · Score: 1

    An instagram.

  80. BREAKING NEWS!!! by Schnapple · · Score: 1

    Seemingly altruistic social media site which performs a useful service to millions of users for free turns out to have business plan to profit from people's usage of the site, and does not in fact exist just to be free.

    I'm disheartened to realize that there are still people who do not get this concept. Of course Instagram is going to sell your photos and not cut you in on the deal. You agreed to it in the T&C. Even if it wasn't in the T&C, the clause of "oh hey we can change this at any time with no notice and you proactively agree to any changes" is probably in there. Why in the hell did you think they set up this service? Because they want to "connect people through social experiences"? Fuck no, they want to sell this shit to whomever will pay for it.

    Same as Facebook. Same as TwitPic. Same as every other site that does this for free.

    You should just assume anything that you put online will be sold to the highest bidder and adjust your habits accordingly. If you don't what that photo of your dick to be on a porn site don't put it on Instagram.

  81. Odd that many of the same folks complaining, ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's fascinating that a good number of the folks who are complaining about not being compensated for the use of their photos are also the same people who gleefully traffic in pirated music and movies.

    Funny how different IP law can look when you're on the other side of the fence.