Slashdot Mirror
Homeland Security Stole Michael Arrington's Boat
An anonymous reader writes "Michael Arrington, founder of TechCrunch, lives near Seattle and bought a boat there. He ordered it from a company based near him, but across the border in Canada. Yesterday, the company tried to deliver it to him, and it had to clear customs. An agent for the Department of Homeland Security asked him to sign a form. The form contained information about the boat, including its cost. The price was correct, but it was in U.S. dollars rather than Canadian dollars. Since the form contained legal warnings about making sure everything on it is true and accurate, Arrington suggested to the agent that they correct the error. She responded by seizing the boat. 'As in, demanded that we get off the boat, demanded the keys and took physical control of it. What struck me the most about the situation is how excited she got about seizing the boat. Like she was just itching for something like this to happen. This was a very happy day for her. ... A person with a gun and a government badge asked me to swear in writing that a lie was true today. And when I didn't do what she wanted she simply took my boat and asked me to leave.'"
in the years that I imported horse manure.
A person in a position of power abused that power? Well color me surprised! I'm sure this has everything to do with DHS and nothing at all to do with the fact that every imaginable authority organization has had people who abuse their power since the dawn of time. Why is this news? Pursue your problem, get it resolved... But this is not "news for nerds" by any reasonable stretch of the imagination.
I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
Vote from the rooftops
The government is creating a giant force of people with ill-defined powers who are itching to push people around for the sake of the fatherland. The current gun control push is to make the nation safer for these guys. We either get this government back into its Constitutional box or we will be the ones in the box.
I dont remember the last time we had a dept that was so pathetic, inefficient, useless, corrupt and annoying as the Dept. of Homeland Security. Why do these people even exist? I dont feel any safer with them being around at all. Just yesterday there was an article in Slate about how insecure airport perimeter security is. http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/02/20/airport_diamond_heist_it_is_shockingly_easy_to_breach_perimeter_security.html
"electronic devices" onboard. I new that new border law was going to give them a "bone".
"It's just paperwork, it doesn't matter"
So, a government functionary with a minor Napoleon complex who just wants to get on with the fun parts of the job then?
This is what happens when you give stupid people that much power.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Cross out what you did not want, replace it with the corrrect currency, and inital, then sign the darn document....
Ask to have the paperwork re-done
Isn't that what got his boat confiscated?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
As TFA notes, he will hire a lawyer and get it back. The only variable is when; my guess is that within two weeks, he'll be sailing around. However, if the government accuses the boat of being the proceeds of a drug transaction (very unlikely, since there was no cash or drugs anywhere around) it will take longer. But "stole" makes for a much better headline than the truth, "confiscated", doesn't it?
Did you read the whole article?
He did try to fix it, and the DHS agents acted like morons.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Was the exchange rate wrong? What am I missing? If the document stated the price in US dollars and was clearly marked as being US dollars why would one care that they paid Canadian Dollars if the paper had the correct exchange rate and listed it in US dollars. Or is it that it did but didn't list the exchange rate at the time? Or is it that the document said the price was (example) $4,000,000 when it should have been C$4,000,000?
Paul: Father... father, the sleeper has awakened! - Dune
You don't get the point. It is about the gatekeeper's ego. If everything he described happened, then it would have made a lot more sense to make the corrections just because it is nice to be honest sometimes you know. She stole the boat because her attitude is like "if you don't do everything the way I want you to do it or if I sense even the slightest disrespect, I will F**K your things". That is what we face at airports too.
I think Arrington overreacted and misrepresented facts, but whining is perhaps a bit strong.
It wasn't DHS "stealing" a boat, it was them refusing to release it without a signature.
We don't know whether the agent in question had the authority to make changes to the legal documents. If not, refusing to release it while the paperwork was redone might have been the only valid recourse.
For those who suggest initialized amendments to the document, whether that is allowed depends on the type of document. DHS might not be allowed to accept amended documents. Their hands could very well be tied.
What was truly disappointing was his speculations about the DHS agents feelings. That was very unprofessional, to say the very least.
It's only news because it's a rich person and his boat. When they utilize the new Homeland Security policy allowing them to seize any electronic device at the border without suspicion, and decide to hold on to your IPad or cellphone it will most certainly be your problem. And you will have enabled it to be so because you are so cavalier about a person's rights, so long as they have a different amount of wealth as you.
Isnt it fascinating that it's abhorent to violate a poor person's rights, but its chiche to promote violating the rights of the wealthy?
"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
Yeah, because people in power would never abuse you the way they abuse those with more money than you!
Nice example of the just world fallacy there. I imagine you do this a lot? Something like this, let's see if I can recreate your style of thinking correctly:
Innocent: That officer shot me for no reason.
Overzeetop: Well you shouldn't have made yourself such a larger target. You already know that guns go off by mistake, so when you saw the police officer, you should have thrown yourself to the ground and then you wouldn't have been hit. Simple. It was your error. Don't go bitch and complain about it.
That happened to someone with a loud voice that is not so easy to intimidate don't mean that it not happens all the time, with a lot of things (maybe not as expensive in absolute numbers, but could hurt even more to the victim), to people with not so loud or that are easier to intimidate in some way.
Exactly the point.
So next time bring a heavyweight lawyer as a sidekick. I suspect that the DHS clerk was breaking more than one law at that moment.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
It sounds like he was being pedantic. 1 USD =~ 1 CAD these days. It's been trading in such a narrow band (0.96 - 1.04) for over a year now. Just fill out the paperwork, and get on with life. Don't upset the pencil pushers. They're goons with badges and guns.
I can't belive anybody is foolish enough to try to import a BOAT without hiring a customs broker to ensure this sort of thing doesn't happen.
Guess what happens when the victim isn't rich?
We never hear about it, and the agent seizes his boat and profits.
Corruption is a very real threat!
So what if this guy is rich? The point is that if they'll do it to rich people, they'll do it to anyone, except little people have no ability to retaliate.
Futurist Traditionalism
He writes:
itâ(TM)s to highlight how screwed up our government bureaucracy has become.
If true (we should hear the other side), it's nothing new in the history of governments or the United States. Not that it shouldn't improve, but the good old days never were.
That's the essential point to understand that if you want to improve things: The problem isn't current bad apples or lack of morality or a temporary increase in corruption; it's the universal, eternal nature of humanity and their institutions. Ignoring that fact is like designing a bridge and ignoring gravity. There are solutions, such as transparency, but it's not a matter of replacing the current 'bad' apples with a new batch -- they will be human too.
I care. Not because the guy is rich and I worship CEOs, but because this is another example of some governmental lowlife taking property.
As much as I am FOR regulations of corporations I am against misuse of regulation for petty reasons.
Yep, they've been doing this for many, many years. Since the RICO act, in fact.
No sig today...
It sounds like the boat was already being held, and simply wasn't released.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Having it happen to a rich person makes it news, but the basic problem is there and likely impacts middle class people too.
Come on. This is a rich guy who can't go fucking sailing this weekend because some paperwork was wrong. Who gives a fuck?
This is the story of a bureaucrat doing their job and inconveniencing someone as a result, not a violation of a basic human right. It's a non-story.
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
Post the name of the agent that did this.
Tar, feathers.
Maybe torch as well, but tar and feathers at a minimum.
I'm sure Arrington, with his long history of reporting the facts, is telling us the entire story. And if he is? It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy . . .
What an assholish thing to post. The guy earned his money - you're somehow more okay with his property being seized because you're envious of it? Grow up.
I always thought the fanatical left was completely hypocritical that they bashed the Bush administration for liberty violations by federal agents but now they are Obama constituents and are completely silent.
*sigh*
Oh well; who needs those stupid ethics and morals anyway?
And they deserve the same sort of respect.
If you give people power, they will abuse it. Government is usually a parasite. Best to keep it in its smaller symbiotic stages.
He did try to fix it, and the DHS agents acted like morons.
Says who? If the customs agent wrote a blog, would it say the same? What if she wrote her blog first and it was posted to Slashdot as "Arrington acts like and a**hole, gets yacht confiscated"? Do we just believe whichever side gets posted to Slashdot first?
If you don't pay them their bribes you don't get your shit across. Everyone knows that...
Or, just sign and don't worry since CAD and USD are at basically the same value these days (a 2 cent difference). I get the principle and everything, but it's not like there's a while lot of difference between the currencies these days.
And if the customs agent doesn't have the authority to amend the paperwork then and there, what happens?
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
How do you arrive at that conclusion?
This is a story of a bureaucrat acting like a fucking idiot and asking someone to sign incorrect paperwork, and then acting like a miserable old cow when he tried to resolve the problem.
Sorry, but if DHS is that incompetent and behaves that much like assholes, that's a major problem.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
You do realize that the people making this "fucking sailboat" are middle class folk right? If he wasn't buying his "fucking sailboat" - they wouldn't have jobs. I know, it is hard to see through your abhorrent jealousy.
Come on. This is a rich guy who can't go fucking sailing this weekend because some paperwork was wrong. Who gives a fuck?
This is the story of a bureaucrat doing their job and inconveniencing someone as a result, not a violation of a basic human right. It's a non-story.
My thoughts exactly.
I wonder if the agent is part of the cabal? Was she involved in the theft of the CrunchPad?
There's all sorts of reasons to hate the DHS and their agents. Years of reading techcrunch has left me with the impression that there's all sorts of reasons to take what Arrington writes with a block of salt.
Its too late to turn back now. They actually have assumed control.
No tin hat needed.
Easy enough to confirm she did take the boat. Why do you automatically disbelieve him? In a battle of assholes, the one that goes public wins.
exactly, this has newsworthiness for a few reasons, two of which i will expand upon.... IF a rich guy can be treated like this, guess what? if youre not rich, YOU ARE GONNA GET IT WORSE.... secondly, it is cause the guy is also a celeb in the geek world, so geeks care about him in the same brainspace that they will occasionally pick up something about steve job's illeg. child.
I disagree. Many years ago, (2002 or 2003), myself and two friends went to Canada. One friend was French, carrying a proper passport, etc.
When crossing into Canada, the customs official could not have been more cordial. He asked all three of us to come up at once (we were walking). Had a quick chit-chat about why we were going to Niagara Falls, checked our friend's passport to make sure everything was good, and wished us well.
Coming back was a completely different experience. We assumed the process would be the same, so we all started up to the customs agent at the same time. He jumped back from his seat, unholstered a pistol, and started shouting commands at us. (3 young college kids). After that, we received the 3rd degree on how two Americans could be friends with a Frenchie, etc.
CBE officials are power hungry... end of story.
Both of you are a little selfish, aren't you? "Oh, he's got money so he's got no right to complain."
This is a bureaucrat fucking up the paperwork, refusing to fix it, then seizing the opportunity to take someone else's toy for a ride. That flagrant abuse of power is a problem with integrity.
In a country where the constitution was deliberately crafted around the idea of protecting citizens from governmental abuse and seeking to empower the citizens with means to call their government on any and all abuse.
Integrity problems in government ought to have you up in arms, it's your job as American Citizen[tm]. No matter what the cause is. So git off yer arses arriddy, ye lazy bums!
They told me if I voted for Romney, we'd see DHS continue with abuse power... and they were right.
Guess what happens when the victim isn't rich?
They don't have a boat for DHS to steal?
The American people have a right to know who did this. I'm sure the guy will eventually get his boat, but he'll have no recourse for any damage they do to it. We're paying those bastards big salaries to fuck us over. And they wonder why citizens are seeing red.
If he was being an incredible dick toward the agent, I'm sure she was excited to seize property from an asshole who thinks his money makes him the coolest thing since the last ice age.
I'm just sayin'... There are always two sides to a story. Unfortunately, since this agent is an official government employee, her TRUE side can't be heard; only the legal facts (the numbers did not match, etc).
If I were being a real prick toward someone and they relieved their vengeance toward me, I would sensationalize the story about it to try and one-up them, just like this story sounds. If I would, millions of others would, too.
Again, just sayin'.
Since the Canadian and US Dollars are almost the same, the diff was what 10 pence?
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
the US is a totalitarian state now run by the corporations and paranoia merchants who exist to fuel wars. I would not travel there with any electronic device as I would be more concerned about them messing about it or taking it at the border than if I was going to China. Seriously it has to have killed of a bit of tourism if nothing else with the mental border policies. Sure Israel blows up laptops it does not like but at least they have provable reason. I've picked flights to avoid the US as a stop over simply because I don't feel safe traveling there with electronics, not that I have anything to hide but I don't think that matters anymore.
Call me old fashioned but I just don't want to be irradiated and have all my electronic devices seized and violated at the whim of some random overpaid security guard with a bad attitude.
Slashdot hates anyone that builds airplanes, sailboats, custom cars, restores very expensive old cars, designs custom jewelry, owns a tuxedo rental store, etc. Didn't you get the memo?
I'm about to build a couple 4000 (my cost) pc's for some wealthy clients, so I'm sure they hate me too. I wouldn't be able to feed my family without rich people.
I don't want to see such disparity that some people can afford private boats either.
Just so you are aware, the vast majority of boats are owned by lower and middle class people. Boats tend to be a money sink which a lot of the wealthy avoid unless they just really have so much money that they don't care.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Dealing successfully with the ironically-named 'justice system' (where 'successfully' is defined as 'minimal loss of wealth/immediate freedom/future earning potential/continence' is based on two key factors:
1) Do not appear to have anything confiscatable
2) Flatter their ego
Stupid people care about the law. They think that if they obey the law, they will be ok. The fact is, the law really doesn't matter. Cops don't know the law, they just enforce it. The most important thing is to not get involved with the police, and if you do, to not get arrested. If you get arrested, you have already lost.
The law only matters after you are arrested. But even then, you will end up plea-bargaining to an unrelated charge anyway. The idea that you will stand up before a judge and he will see that you were in compliance with the law and you will achieve some kind of 'justice' is pure naivete. Even if the case is dismissed, you lost.
What if she wrote her blog first and it was posted to Slashdot as "Arrington acts like and a**hole, gets yacht confiscated"?
I don't care if he called her a dirty &$@*â licking %*@& £^#%er. She can't legally confiscate his boat for that.
So you think that government agents should encourage people to make false statements and swear they are true?
If what happened was "I pointed out that the paperwork the DHS had written was incorrect and the agent said they couldn't correct it now and would have get a higher up to fix it which will take a few days and they'll hold the boat until that is done", then yes you would have a point and he would be being a "whiny rich asshole".
But that isn't what happened. The "they wouldn't let me have my boat right this second" wasn't the point of the whine, which should be pretty obvious to anyone who can read.
So let's cut their pay, cut back on their training, and cut their support services. That will make them better.
He'll get his boat back. More worryingly this was the third attempt at delivery. It broke down *twice* before and had to return to the manufacturer when attempts were made to deliver. A bigger entity really does not want him to have his boat! Boats breaking down is serious. You evade storms in a working boat.
In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
It "no big deal" until the IRS or the boat licensing authority gets ahold of that slip and it doesn't MATCH EXACTLY... Then he gets accused of defrauding taxes and such. A COMPANY has lawyers that can defend that type of clerical error. YOU don't.
To be totally fair, this is over dramatized. Obviously, without the paperwork, she can't clear the boat. So that means lock it back up until the correct paperwork is redone... And you go to the bottom of the queue for wasting her time.
Is it that we're NOT supposed to care because this is a rich guy who got fucked?
I don't know about you, but I figure that this isn't good, even though I, personally, have never lost anything to border security.
Guess what happens when the victim isn't rich?
They buy a domestic boat instead of outsourcing?
The customs paperwork on a shipment was screwed up.
By the customs department, not the company or the private individual. If the company shipping the boat had made the error, or Arrington himself, this would be appropriate.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
I know it's a little off topic and few are likely to read an AC's post anyway :), but I have a story of government bureaucracy bullshit related to the U.S./Canadian border.
Years ago, I tried to cross the border to get into Canada from the U.S. I had been arrested about a year before or so on a minor charge--interference with government operations. Basically some asshole cops were abusing their power, arresting kids outside a music venue, throwing them into the ground, and one of them threw his elbow into me on his way over, knocking me back. So I stood my ground. When he told me to move back, I told him that I wouldn't because a) he hit me on the way over , b) I hadn't moved since this whole thing started, and c) what they were doing wasn't police work, it was plain and simple bullshit. (Btw, one of these cops was later thrown in jail for murdering his young boy lover, and the other gets in trouble periodically for beating up high school students.) So I got arrested. After they let me go, amidst much snickering as they filled out my charge sheet or whatever on their rinky-dinky circa 80s mainframe system (it seemed), I went to court (not the real court, mind you, the misdemeanor court) and pled guilty so I could just get out of there. I paid $150 to someone behind a window and left.
So flash forward to when I'm trying to cross the border, and the Canadian border/police officer tells me that I have a felony terrorist offense on my record and they won't allow me in. And I'm like, "What?!?!" Well, there's a felony in Canada with the same name as the misdemeanor that I stupidly pled guilty to. I tried explaining this, and my explanation was along the lines of "So these asshole cops were abusing their power, and I was resisting it," all while the cop I'm talking to is obviously taking these (future murderer and disgraced) cops' sides. So I had to sneak into Canada. I'm not sure, but I suspect that to this day, I am still not allowed into Canada. It's something I could maybe fix with a lawyer, but I'm not rich and I'm stubborn about this bullshit.
So yeah, I'm pretty sure this all happened because of the 9/11 mess, Patriot Act and such. Screw bureaucracy. Screw all of these new government institutions and laws put in place since 9/11 that are just obviously fucked up (TSA, I'm talking about you). And of course, confiscating this guy's boat is bullshit, but as he said, he is rich and he will get it back. How many people have shit like this happen who aren't rich and don't have a popular blog and slashdot to publicize it? I'm guessing far too many.
I've had a gun drawn on me entering the US as well. Over pepperoni sticks.
They're a little too excited. The Canadians are armed too now though.
Yeah, I'm jealous, that's it.
You know what makes jobs for the middle class? A larger middle class. If you believe in trickle down economics, you are truly a moron.
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
You know, there exist boats that aren't yachts and are inside the purchasing power of many people.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
Who submit's an invoice to the US government in any currency other than USD?
That's the problem. Is it the US government's job to do a currency conversion for you? No, it isn't. They take the number, they put it on the form.
Blame the proper party, the builder who submitted documentation to the US government in a foreign currency.
More evidence for thr 10,000 year old theory that people want government power to enrich themselves.
Stop following words and lok at actions. Someone came up to someone else, waved their hands, and took something. Exit the world of seductive, disabling memes.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Obviously, without the paperwork, she can't clear the boat. So that means lock it back up until the correct paperwork is redone... And you go to the bottom of the queue for wasting her time.
Except she filled out the form with the wrong information. She wasted her own time and he doesn't deserve to go to the bottom of the queue for that.
My company ships stuff to Canada and Mexico. The paperwork has to exactly correct from the MANUFACTURER, no changing..So good luck getting that turned around on your own.
And the agent isn't going to wait... If its not right, you go back to the bottom of the queue. That's pretty standard... If the agent is a bit rough about it.
I don't know what you're saying there.
&$@*â licking %*@& £^#%er
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
If I got stopped by the police and they said "we won't give you a speeding ticket if you just sign this piece of paper saying you admit you were doing 10 mph over the limit" I would sign the piece of paper, not make a big deal about it if I had in fact been going 12 mph over the limit.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
On slashdot, if there's a confrontation between someone from the government and a rich guy, who do you think people will believe?
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
I don't think that's what anyone means here. If this was some non-web-celebrity average Joe getting his laptop seized, it wouldn't be news, and he would be lucky to ever see that laptop again. Because it's a rich guy and his boat, it's news, even though he has the means to pummel the DHS over it in court and get his boat back.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Guess what happens when the victim isn't rich?
We never hear about it, and the agent seizes his boat and profits.
Corruption is a very real threat.
So only rich people are allowed to make slashdot submissions? No wonder so many of my submissions are voted down so quickly.
boats are owned by lower [...] class people
While you're right that a boat is a sink (ba dum tss), your friends may be unrepresentative.
Considering my ex-private-school friends, there are a lot of boat-owners amongst their families. Suspiciously few boat-owners exist among those I've worked with who don't have fixed accommodation.
Now there may be a few bank-owned boats purchased by those with just enough regular income to be milked by a loan provider, but they are unrepresentative - especially in 2013.
Actually, the point is the only reason you care is because it happened to a rich person. This happens to poor/average people all the time but we don't hear about it and we don't care about it. I don't get why you say it's abhorrent to trample a poor person's right when they get fucked all the time. You really think that some no-name defendant with a public attorney gets better representation than a guy like Madoff? The rich buy political and legal power all the time then bitch when they don't get their way. You don't say a thing when a poor person is fucked, but it's a rich guy so slashdot libertarians demand insurrection. Fuck you poor people you guys already have it too good.
Huh? The DHS only supposed to take stuff when there's a crime being committed.
No sig today...
So in America, it is now considered normal that you only have rights if you can and do afford to always have a lawyer besides you?
Also, the currency didn't matter so as long as the value of the boat was correct (either in US or canadian dollars).
Really. Good on you then, I have some money trading I'd like to discuss with you, a proven way to make money!
Infuriate left and right
That's a very costly solution. Especially for those of us that aren't Michael Arrington.
Well, she can call a more senior agent who does have the authority.
Except she only did so to say he wasn't being cooperative.
Sorry, but if there's nobody there who can make a decision, you call someone else -- and you need to keep going until you find someone who can.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Who cares about the 1st or 4th amendment when we have the 2nd amendment.
I keep telling people that if you have to use the 2nd amendment to correct your government you have already lost. That is all the excuse they need to bring down the boot. Look how well it worked out for Ireland and Pakistan.
Cheap storage VM.
No, it's OK to temporarily seize his boat because there was an error on his paperwork (clerical or not). The boat was seized and will be released once it's corrected just like would happen to every other person in America. Why do you demand special privilege for rich people? He "earned his money" therefore the rules don't apply to him? If I "earn my money" can I just choose what rules I don't want to follow or is it just for the wonderful American rich?
No, he was a dick about it. Instead of simply making a notation and signing, he made a big deal about how the agency made an error. It was a dick thing to do, since $1 Canadian is nearly equal to $1 US.
Technical types get wrapped around the axle over stupid shit like this all the time. I used to, too, before I realized how much more you can get accomplished when you stop being a dick and work with people.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
No guns drawn on us, but my wife and I, who really like Happy Jack's in Fort Erie, have lost a bit of desire to go there for lunch because of the assholes manning the US side of the border. On special occasions, we'll push our luck and go, and the Canadians are always cool about it. The Americans are almost always total power-tripping buttheads.
Exactly.
The DHS and TSA are examples of a government out of control and trampling the rights of all citizens, just most aren't rich enough to get it public.
Or, just sign and don't worry since CAD and USD are at basically the same value these days (a 2 cent difference).
Fifty thousand dollars difference on a $2million boat. The tax folks would have a field day with that one.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
I had the opportunity to look up an address in Washington State on Google Maps and found that there were a lot of boats in the suburbs of Seattle. They were typically parked on their trailers in or very near the front yards of their owners' homes. Small boats, surely, but obviously ready to use when the desire presented itself.
Incidents worse than this have been happening for years under asset forfeiture laws for certain felony crimes.
It makes one want to become a Libertarian.
And my point is that BOTH should be news. And that in no case should the violation of a person's rights be casually dismissed for any reason, including how much or how little money that person might have.
As soon as we choose who are worthy of protection under the law and who are socially acceptable to victimize we are doomed to fail as a culture.
"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
I didn't know there was a minimum income requirement for writing a blog. But thanks for your contribution to class warfare.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
honestly, if Coastal Craft's construction is as bad as the grammar on their website... DHS may have saved his life...
-- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
1. Incorrect.
2. Like your post.
3. I do.
4. It wasn't.
Or Germany....
THAT is why you stand up to them.
"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
I understand your argument from a moral and ethical perspective; no one ever said that Karl Marx lacked a conscience. The problem lies in implementing a system that enforces "equality" on everybody; it's the enforcing part that the rest of us have a problem with.
I don't want to see such disparity that some people can afford private boats either.
Just so you are aware, the vast majority of boats are owned by lower and middle class people. Boats tend to be a money sink which a lot of the wealthy avoid unless they just really have so much money that they don't care.
Just so you are aware, I can completely make stuff up as well:
The VAST(cavernous? I prefer cavernous). The CAVERNOUS majority of boats are kayaks/canoes/etc that don't have associated costs of ownership. I guess if you count them then the vast majority (what is that, anyway? 75%? 90% 99.99999%?) of boats are indeed owned by the lower and middle class. If you don't take into account the "quality" of a good then the poor and middle class probably own the majority of everything. There are a lot more of them than there are rich people. They have nothing to do with this guy trying to bring his yacht through customs.
My completely made up stuff sounds more plausible, honestly.
If he witnesses the agent being a bitch he has every right to report it loudly and widely.
You are a worthless apologist. Are you former law enforcement? Sounds like it.
Finally! The slashdot libertarian crowd shows their true belief. It's ok for the DHS to steal petty objects from poor people. It's only wrong for the government to take your stuff if it's important rich guy things. Take your iPad? So what you deserve moocher. Impound your car? So what, it's a POS anyway get an education and a job! Take a rich guy's boat? The HORROR! How dare the government we must attack! You guys remind me of Mr. Howell on Gilligan's Island.
I wouldn't be able to feed my family without rich people
If there weren't very rich people maybe you wouldn't have to worry about feeding your family, because there wouldn't be very poor people in a well off country either.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
It's a customs declaration, same as everybody fills out when entering the country with something valuable. You tell the government you have it and that you bought it, and you state its approximate value in USD. The government doesn't want to know its value in florins, or rubles, or Canadian dollars. The value does not have to be exact, as it's only needed for statistical purposes. Even if knowingly misrepresented, I have yet to meet a government agency that is unwilling to correct paperwork after the fact.
I expect that much everybody the DHS agent deals with understands this, and doesn't care enough to make a big deal of it. When some guy starts insisting that the government should rebuild its procedures to compute value using a foreign currency, the agent smiled cheerfully, explained that the boat can't be released without the proper paperwork, and likely tried to restrain the laughter at the guy who thinks the world should bend to his will.
Well, Mr. Arrington, congratulations. Your high moral standards and obsession with accurate reporting have inconvenienced your government and cost you a few weeks' time with your precious new boat while new papers are filed. At least you can post your story online and get some sympathy from faceless strangers.
Anecdotally, I just received notice from the IRS that I've just finished an audit for 2010. I had rounded a few numbers on my 1040, and they didn't get third-party papers corroborating a deduction, and they thought I was worthy of closer scrutiny. Fixing it took a few hours on the phone, a trip to my accountant, and a signed letter attesting that I really did do what I said I did. Apparently I'll soon be getting a second refund check.
The government is not out to get you, the hapless individual. The government is out to get all the other assholes who screw over the system, and you just happen to have aroused suspicion. Once you're under suspicion, you have two options. You can be offended and return the offense, approaching every interaction as though you were going to battle, or you can convince the government that you're not the criminal they're looking for, but merely someone who deviated a bit too far from their expectations. The latter's really not that hard, and can help to stretch the bounds of their expectations.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Dealing successfully with the ironically-named 'justice system' (where 'successfully' is defined as 'minimal loss of wealth/immediate freedom/future earning potential/continence' is based on two key factors: 1) Do not appear to have anything confiscatable 2) Flatter their ego Stupid people care about the law. They think that if they obey the law, they will be ok. The fact is, the law really doesn't matter. Cops don't know the law, they just enforce it. The most important thing is to not get involved with the police, and if you do, to not get arrested. If you get arrested, you have already lost. The law only matters after you are arrested. But even then, you will end up plea-bargaining to an unrelated charge anyway. The idea that you will stand up before a judge and he will see that you were in compliance with the law and you will achieve some kind of 'justice' is pure naivete. Even if the case is dismissed, you lost.
This is brilliant.
Welcome to another example of the "New Normal" in US Government-Citizenry Relations. Yes. YOUR Government is no longer there for you, YOU are there for the Government: to sustain itself (le gouvernement pour le gouvernement) and to be its loyal subject (so it asserts its own legitimacy and reason-for-being). Pay your taxes, and do what we tell you to... or else!
In the old days, the government worker would have assessed the situation, used their brain to think about it, determined that indeed there was an error, and helped the civilian to correct the situation. That required two things:
1. the ability to think independently;
2. a customer-service (instead of authoritarian) attitude.
Part of the Government Bullying problem is also the "metrics-ization" of people's work; it doesn't matter anymore if you do a good job, just if you "met your targets". This means any kind of issue that takes a bit longer puts a blemish on your work performance. Workers are being rewarded to just get rid of you, one way or the other, as quickly as possible. Next in line step forward!
When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
I don't understand why more people don't get this.
There are other options I'd like to bring along.
- Licensed armed bodyguard, or state police officer if you have "connections"
- TV crew
- Retired Army sniper with a touch of PTSD
- an Italian-American mother who don't take no crap
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
The paperwork was government supplied, not his. His paperwork showed the correct amount in Canadian dollars.
He tried to get the paperwork fixed at the time and the agent refused to amend to show the correct currency to him to sign a truthful document.
Remember there is also an exchange rate difference between US & Canadian dollars (although its not much).
So writing down that the boat is worth $100k USD when its actually only worth $98212 USD ($100k CAN) impacts on the import taxes you have to pay.
How exactly did DHS "steal" it? He has no right to have a boat from Canada without following proper regulation. The builder sent the price in the wrong currency, and he caught the error. The builder needs to resubmit the correct price, in a currency used by the United States, and then he can sign the form correctly, and accept delivery of his boat.
Steal implies doing something unlawfully. This was very lawful. There was no theft what-so-ever. It's not the US government's job to be a currency converter for every one importing an asset or object. Declare the value in USD next time and you won't have a problem.
The thing is, this person is in one of the best positions to fix the problem. He can draw attention to an issue that affects more than just rich people, but the poor people it affects don't have the money or ability to draw attention to it.
In a sense, this happening to him is a blessing to all of us, because it can end up being one more nail in the department of illegal detainment, theft and torture.
Simply, I am against misuse of regulation for BIG REASONS.
Writers of the Declaration of Indepence & Constitution knew exactly what happens when a government turns tyrannical.
They had the entire history of the European arena to view tyrannical acts that reduced citizens to mere slave subjects or worse.
Your blasé attitude toward this dystopian paradise is inspiring.
All people have a right to their life, liberty, and property. If a government is corrupt, and thus gives preference to the wealthy, that doesn't mean we should abandon the idea of human rights and become basement Marxists like you.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
"The two best days of a boat owners life are the day they buy the boat and the day they sell it".
Not sure if that works anymore.
It's only news because it's a rich person and his boat. When they utilize the new Homeland Security policy allowing them to seize any electronic device at the border without suspicion, and decide to hold on to your IPad or cellphone it will most certainly be your problem. And you will have enabled it to be so because you are so cavalier about a person's rights, so long as they have a different amount of wealth as you.
Isnt it fascinating that it's abhorent to violate a poor person's rights, but its chiche to promote violating the rights of the wealthy?
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/10/aclu-assails-10/
Those of that aren't Arrington don't buy yachts from Canada.
As much as you might complain about it, the fact that it works its way up to affect the rich people, who can afford to be outraged and can afford the publicity means that it becomes a lot bigger news than a victim from a less wealthy background. Stories like this slip through the cracks all the time, and they're publicized only on a local level, possibly to friends or family. When it affects someone of this kind of standing, he raises his buddies, lawyers up, and gathers a legal defense and a public outcry, and the government has to step down, hopefully for everybody. The government often has to take the response of the people into consideration, and the more publicity a story about a high-profile person receives, the higher the chance that it becomes a persistent or issue that requires addressing. So yes, it happens to everybody, and not much gets done about it. But the more people it affects and the more people complain, loudly, the more likely it is that powers could be rolled back, instead of quietly advanced.
Excuse me... you left the reason out of your post. The middle class grows because of prosperity, not the other way around.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
I think regardless of how in the right the DHS rep is they handled it poorly. If they don't have the authority to change the form fine. If they must seized the boat fine. Explain the the gentleman why you are unable to make the changes and why you must seized the boat. Then let them know what the next step is to get things sorted out. Most people are fairly forgiving of inconveniences if they know why they are happening.
This just smacks of a functionary that enjoys being a pain. As for the DHS agent this is probably not going to go well for them. Even if it doesn't cost them there job it will probably result in a demotion.
He should have waited a week for the sequestration. There wouldn't be anyone at the border to check him.
I call Godwin. Also, your comparison only proves the OP's point. When other countries' militaries are correcting your problems, it's not about the 2nd amendment any more.
Any normal person would just have signed the fucking paperwork and got their boat.
You sound like the sort of person who has always filed a 1040ez form for your taxes.
Defending yourself in court or going through an audit takes time and money. There are also legal ramifications for falsifying legal documents. I wouldn't have signed to form either, it was incorrect and it was a potential ticking time bomb problem for him in the future.
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Only large boats are money sinks that the rich avoid.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Well, that bitch is fired
That's a very costly solution. Especially for those of us that aren't Michael Arrington.
Ordering and importing a boat from Canada is also a very costly solution for those of us that aren't Michael Arrington, but since you seem to be conveniently ignoring THAT little fact...
On slashdot, if there's a confrontation between someone from the government and a rich guy, who do you think people will believe?
The stoner who wasn't there but has a very strong opinion about what happened.
I disagree. Many years ago, (2002 or 2003), myself and two friends went to Canada.
It varies, being close to the border I wanted to put one foot (a first, my left if I remember right) in the States. We crossed the border, the driver telling he was from Montreal with some friends (forgetting to mention we were no Canadians, ... worse my father and grandfathers being terrorists or bandits in the forties and earlier), no problem. Returning to Canada was more a problem, customs not really believing our story.
What I don't understand is why he didn't just make a note on the document then sign it.
"Oh, hang on."
*writes CDN and initials it*
"there we go!"
*sign*
I do that all the time for things that are worth far more than his boat.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
I don't understand why more people don't get this.
Because it's utter bullshit.
FYI, this nation, the United States of America, wasn't founded with fancy words and courtrooms, it was created with the blood of men and women who would have rather died standing as free people, than live kneeling as slaves.
We see the choice you've made, Benedict, but you shouldn't think for a second that you made the right one.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
You don't have anything.
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-02-21/scorecard-how-many-rights-have-americans-really-lost
Don't steal, the government hates competition.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
> I used to, too, before I realized how much more you can get accomplished when you stop being a dick and work with people.
That is a nice euphemism for perjury. But I admit that you are right - you get on with people much better if you do not insist on jumping through some pointless hoops just because they are the law. The respect for the law is low, but then again the law deserves no better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._$124,700_in_U.S._Currency
The difference is, this guy will probably get his boat back (but won't be re-imbursed for fuel used joy-riding it around, or any damage done by the morons who confiscated it).
All people have a right to their life, liberty, and property.
All people have a right to monkeys, hookers, and blow.
It's true because I typed it.
If a government is corrupt, and thus gives preference to the wealthy,...
...such as by defending all their property, which poor people don't own to defend...
that doesn't mean we should abandon the idea of human rights
That's true: the right to life free of personal assault, sexual abuse, wage slavery, etc. should not be abandoned.
and become basement Marxists like you.
Oh, that's right, this is America. Everyone who complains about wealth disparity is a Marxist. Also Marxism is Satanism only worse because McCarthy said so.
Re Type44Q:
The problem lies in implementing a system that enforces "equality" on everybody; it's the enforcing part that the rest of us have a problem with.
Who said anything about enforcing equality? One simply has to stop enforcing gross inequality.
But that is, minus the temper tantrum, what happened. Customs is holding the boat. He'll call his lawyer, and he'll get the paperwork straightened out and have his boat after a couple of days. BFD.
It's not like the feds just took it -- they have to pretend drugs are involved in order to do that. That's the worse part of this whine, pretending that this minor snafu somehow compares with the actual seizures of property that the feds have been engaged in for decades.
Take the emotional content and subjective reporting out of his post, and that is exactly all that remains: due to a paperwork error, he couldn't get his boat that day. "A person with a gun [in some U.S. states that could be anyone] and a government badge [that's all government agents] asked me to swear in writing that a lie [not a lie, an error] was true today. And when I didn't do what she wanted she simply took my boat [it's not yours until the paperwork's done] and asked me to leave [your business there is done for the moment, of course you should leave]." In other words: due to a paperwork error, the transaction could not be completed at that time.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Speculation? Not everyone has Asperger's Syndrome. Most of the time, people's attitudes are very clear.
No, it's OK to temporarily seize his boat because there was an error on his paperwork (clerical or not).
An error put there by the same people who seized the boat. How... convenient.
Now take off your fucking blinders.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Having crossed a fair few borders in my life, the US ones are without a doubt the most unpleasant ones.Worse even than the former East German one (albeit on a West German passport... I'm sure with an eastern block passport they would have been even worse).
It's odd, given that on the whole the US is full of friendly people trying to be helpful... all the assholes seem to hang out at the border and at airports.
no taxation without representation!
So you're saying you didn't actually read the article, but are commenting on what you imagine it might say instead?
Customs didn't impound the shipment until the paperwork gets straightened out.
Customs demanded that the incorrect paperwork be authenticated anyways despite being incorrect, insisted that because it was _their_ paperwork, it was not possible for it to be incorrect, despite the error being _RIGHT THERE_, and when the guy you're so angry at for having made more money than you refuses to authenticate paperwork listing the value of imported goods with a price that's likely in excess of $10,000 away from being correct, the customs agent didn't say "Well, until this paperwork error is corrected, we can't let you have your boat", she said "The paperwork is correct! Since you won't sign it, hand over the keys and get off the boat" with an implied "Or I will shoot you. Please please let me shoot you".
Frankly, he deserves some respect for having the integrity to refuse to lie under oath, despite the armed thug deciding to commit an act of government sanctioned piracy (I believe the term is "privateer" in that case) to punish his refusal to follow their demand that he do so.
Last, he'd probably be more willing to buy American if he was able to find the thing he wanted to buy at a decent price offering. He definitely won't be buying anything from that particular manufacturer again, for reasons unrelated to armed theft by government thugs, which you'd also know if you'd bothered to read the article.
Mod parent down Equivocation (possibly the geek's most common fallacy, which is why parent is modded so high).
Owning a rowboat with an outboard motor is not the same as owning the class of boats under consideration here.
*writes CDN and initials it*
He paid in content delivery networks?
Canadian dollar is CAD. Which is finally worth less than the USD once again.
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Whine whine.
Do you really think it's only newsworthy because it's a rich guy, and how dare they abuse a rich guy? It's because they seized A FUCKING BOAT over its owner's insistence to correct a paperwork discrepancy.
I'd be super-pissed if they took my laptop or my phone or my car, and I'd be just as justified. And I'm sure others would support me and agree that it was wrong. But that they seized something so huge and valuable over something so stupid underlines the effrontery of the DHS and its agent.
Everything isn't class warfare or OWS.
Yes.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
There are other options I'd like to bring along.
- an Italian-American mother who don't take no crap
This.
Who needs a gun, when you could be packing a Sicilian matriarch?
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Your logic makes no fucking sense. Just because there's no rich or poor doesn't mean you don't have to worry about feeding your family. Ask the people of the former Soviet Union.
I mean you have the right to defend your life, liberty, and Property... sounds like that boat was pretty critical to all that.
Huh? The DHS only supposed to take stuff when there's a crime being committed.
No. You can't get stuff into countries without the correct paperwork. You don't have the automatic 'right' to import anything. If the paperwork wasn't correct then the boat can't clear customs until the correct paperwork is available.
I'm sorry, but that's bullshit.
By your reasoning the only way for the government to be OK is to not have any law enforcement or courts at all. Because there'd be no point in having them if they can't arrest or prosecute anybody.
Yes, plea-bargaining is a problem, but you make it sound like everybody is equally likely to be in that position, when the reality is that if you're not around criminals, it's unlikely that this will even come into play. Stay away from organized crime and the likelihood of ending up like that goes down drastically.
Easy enough to confirm she did take the boat. Why do you automatically disbelieve him? In a battle of assholes, the one that goes public wins.
She didn't "take" the boat, He was trying to pick it up and she wouldn't release it. Has no one on Slashot actually done a job similar to hers?
I bet her thought process was similar to this:
Some guy wants his boat, here's the form...everything looks fine. Wait, what did that guy say? The value is wrong?
Crap, the currency is wrong? I bet it's Alan...goddamn it Alan, you already got in trouble for screwing up the gross tonnage on a boat last month. You're so fucked this time.
c'mon, man, just sign the form...oh god it doesn't even matter what the value is...
I have to go and put in a request to have this changed with records? fuck, that will take like another two weeks. No, we can't just initital the change and have you sign it. We have this new electronic system and it sucks...something about document retention but the forms can't be changed once we make them. Really, just sign this, it'll never come up.
Seriously, you won't do it? Yeah the currency is wrong. whatever. The form is still fine, it's not wrong. I do this crap all day, it'll be fine.
You won't sign it? God, whatever. Okay get off the boat and give me the keys, we can't release it without you signing this form. What? I don't care if you get your boat, I'm just here to process the paperwork. get off the damn boat so I can finish doing my job.
I wonder what I can get for lunch...
I doubt she was "excited" to seize the boat. She was probably just glad the guy who was making her day more annoying wouldn't be bothering her anymore.
He did try to fix it, and the DHS agents acted like morons.
Says who? If the customs agent wrote a blog, would it say the same? What if she wrote her blog first and it was posted to Slashdot as "Arrington acts like and a**hole, gets yacht confiscated"? Do we just believe whichever side gets posted to Slashdot first?
Words of someone who's obviously never had to deal with a petty bureaucrat's Napoleon complex.
Piece of advice, Broseph - this is a nation whose police officers regularly murder citizens, and are awarded with paid vacations (oh, I mean, "paid administrative leave") for doing so.
Expecting an honest answer from these jack-booted thugs is like expecting water to not get you wet - Ain't gonna happen.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Canadian boats are unlikely to be any less expensive than American ones are. The Canadian Dollar and US Dollar have been at parity for several years now to within a cent or two. Any cost savings like that would likely be eaten up by the additional transportation costs.
So he says. I'm not sure how he could know whether the error was Customs' or the shipper's. But either way, what did he expect? "There's a error here. Your colleagues at another office must have filled this form out wrong." "Oh, thanks sir, I'll just take your word for that without further investigation and we'll proceed."
Look, people have problems with bureaucrats every day. I had a heck of a time getting my title and tags for my car last time. It's not news, it's not theft, it's not seizure. It's part of the annoyance of living on a planet so crowded with monkeys that they've had to appoint some monkeys to keep order.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
No one is saying he shouldn't have protection under the law. They are saying he already does, so why is this news. Meanwhile if someone without a silo full of money to go swimming in gets property taken without cause, they really don't get protection under the law because going to court is expensive and so this is more important to publicize.
To repeat:
Not news: Someone mildly put out because of governmental bureaucracy.
News: Someone deprived of property without recourse.
So, if you got pulled into an interrogation room, and the police say "if you sign this confession, you'll be free. All taken care of." clearly any normal person should just sign the paperwork, right? Except this happens all the time to trick black men into signing confessions for crimes without support of a lawyer. Your analogy is ridiculous.
This agent of the government asked Arrington to commit fraud, and he's just supposed to "sign the fucking paperwork"? Enjoy that boot stomping on your face.
Or, just sign and don't worry since CAD and USD are at basically the same value these days (a 2 cent difference).
Yea, sure, if you don't mind the risk that some petty bureaucrat is going to have a hissy over the difference, charge you with felony tax evasion, and have your ass sent to the federal penitentiary for 2-5.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
The problem is far too many assholes hanging out in Congress. Starts at the top a trickles down.
Wow, so the incorruptible are corruptible, lower their wages, and they behave just like authorities across the border, just with higher bribes. Skirt past them with awesome toys, and they become envious in their dead end DHS job. I know border agents definitely hate seeing happy families crossing the borders, so they make it hell to cross back.
This is clearly a conspiracy by the socialist obama administration to punish the John Galt's of our society for not giving up their hard won posessions fast enough.
We must all GO GALT!
It's time to just admit that the terrorists won.
Time to call this game over.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120326032958AAFy01P
http://boats.oodle.com/bayliner/for-sale/length_20/
http://www.boatquest.com/search.html?uwc=True&BoatType=&used=&Manufacturer=&year_min=&year_max=&length_min=180&length_max=360&price_min=&price_max=&ListingId=#.USegYaXmEuM
Those are just a few examples turned up by a fast google search, but a ~20' power or sail boat is a fairly decent-sized boat. May of which you can get for about the same price as a new car. Last I checked a lot of people in the US own one or two of those (cars), so why is it so unbelievable that a middle-class person could own a boat, too?
My father-in-law owns one. He's a lineman for the power company. You can't find a much bluer-collar job than that short of the auto industry.
Have gnu, will travel.
When we returned to the US side, the agent asked us to pop the trunk, didn't even look in it, but shut it for us and said to have a nice day.
All of our paperwork was in order--the only reason we can come up with is that I'm brown-skinned and have a beard. Except that my ancestry is English, Irish and Native American.
Calm down. The parent and GP to your post are most likely drones that believe as long as the government is being run by good (Democrats / Republicans) the little guy will be protected from the evil rich monster.
They do not own guns and think that the first amendment means you can tell your boss at Walmart to "Fuck off" with no repercussions.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
Im sure it has nothing to do with Arrington being an asshole most of the time !!!
This is why I think we should have Gun Control only for Govt and Govt employees and not for the rest of the population.
Words of someone who's obviously never had to deal with a petty bureaucrat's Napoleon complex.
Obviously you have no idea about me. Bureaucrats and the people they deal with are all human; some are petty, some are earnest and hard working, some care, some don't. I just don't buy the story of the person who posts their blog first, or has a bigger platform from which to complain. Your sig says it best:
Capitalism is really Feudalism, but with a much better PR department
Arrington is the one with the PR department.
Sorry, but if there's nobody there who can make a decision, you call someone else -- and you need to keep going until you find someone who can.
Yep, it's a code red emergency when a yacht is held up at customs while its tax paper work is refiled. Obviously, more DHS agents are needed so there is appropriate coverage when these situations pop up.
What was truly disappointing was his speculations about the DHS agents feelings. That was very unprofessional, to say the very least.
You deserve mod points
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
agreed. Just write CAD, and sign it. The agent is not authorized to change the form. But you can correct errors.
On slashdot, if there's a confrontation between someone from the government and a rich guy, who do you think people will believe?
I know your question is rhetorical, but I think there's a serious point here: Tech hero (Arrington, Elon Musk) vs. anyone else (customs agent, NY Times), and people here seem to take the tech hero's at face value.
It sounds like the DHS clerk was way out of line, and deserves to be dismissed for this. The problem is: you'll have to prove it. You'd think that they'd be interested in cases of abuse of power, but in practice government organisations close up ranks and turn a cold shoulder if you complain about one. Then it's your word against theirs, in other words you've already lost. For this reason I always* record any conversation with government officials.
* Make sure it's legal, though. The rules vary per country and with circumstances. Also, hide the recorder, use a smart phone + app that streams to a remote server, And if you feel hard done by, don't tell them "I recorded this!", especially at borders. Border officials often have additional powers such as seizing your recorder / smart phone.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Acting like an asshole should not be reason enough to get his yacht confiscated. It might sometimes be a good idea, but for now being an asshole is not enough of a reason.
So if the customs agent wrote such a thing, there would be no difference and perhaps it would be even worse as the agent then would have admitted of going in against the law.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
"'All people have a right to their life, liberty, and property.'
All people have a right to monkeys, hookers, and blow.
It's true because I typed it."
Not to get all technical on you, but "life" and "liberty" appear in a rather famous sentence in the US Declaration of Independence, and the US has this amendment to the Constitution about unreasonable search and seizure. That's not true because I typed it. That's true because it is in our official documents as a nation.
http://www.rootstrikers.org/
asked me to swear in writing that a lie [not a lie, an error] was true today
An error becomes a lie when both parties are fully aware that it is incorrect, and make what amounts to a legal oath stating that it is true. In particular, when the legal document they are being told to sign indicates severe legal penalties if they sign it and it is not accurate, and it contains significantly incorrect information (a currency change on a large monetary value that can amount to more than the average person earns in a year is NOT insignificant), it becomes a major issue.
No, I don't think it's newsworthy at all. Government official bullies someone? That happens every day.
You appear to think this is newsworthy. Because it involves a big expensive boat.
Apparently it is. Unfortunately we live in a world where most of us will be ignored or even treated as kooks if we suffer an injustice and complain about it, unless we're rich enough in which case it'll be splashed across the front pages of sites like Slashdot.
You know that because of the victim here, the issue will be resolved in a few days, if not sooner. Whereas most people who have their laptops taken rarely see them back in anything like a reasonable time frame.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Yet that is not what he is doing.
He by making this public is slapping those hands. Making them look bad.
Sure he could just call a few friends, do a few favors and get his boat and his revenge on that piece of shit government unionized drone.
You are correct also in pointing out that the poor can not do that.
WHICH MAKE THIS IMPORTANT TO US!
As to your last point.
I hope to do well for myself and my family. Someday to even own a boat. I am willing to put in 50 - 60 hours a week at work plus am working with someone on a business that hopefully will allow me to work less at some point and enjoy my own boat.
If you want to do 35 hours a week at Walmart and take my taxes to supplement your lifestyle then I do not have to like it, but since a majority feel that way,, Take my shit and enjoy.
But do not act like hard work and risk are fucking evil. People who put in the effort and take the risks deserve what they get and petty, can not be fired, government union, badge flashing, power tripping drones and those that support them can go fuck themselves.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
The really stupid part of this system is that the agent *doesn't* profit. Nor does the agency; they lose money on most of these siezures. A brand new boat, perhaps. However, the odds are non-trivial that the modern country where it was manufactured has a court system in which a lien could be placed on the boat, rendering it useless in the area. Yes, it's a dirty trick, and yes, it should be pulled..
No that isn't what happened. The issue he is complaining about isn't that a mistake was made on the form and that inconvenienced him. It's that he pointed out a mistake on the form and the agent of the Federal government told him to sign it anyway because it's just paper work and he should just lie.
Again the issue isn't the mistake. And it isn't that he can't have his boat this minute. The issue is the federal government asking him to swear that a falsehood was true in a legal document.
And an error becomes a lie when you know it is wrong and swear is it true anyway, so your nitpicking there is completely wrong.
And yes it's sensational language. That's what people use when they want something to be noticed - see any newspaper for many more examples.
That's true, the first thing the United States of America did was get rid of slavery, then they restored all the stolen land to the natives, proving that the War of Independence was about the rights of men everywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
You lake it sound as if they are two opposite things. They are identical.
Just think about it.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Not to be an Internet Tough Guy, but I sincerely hope I never end up in a situation like yours. If I was just innocently trying to follow procedure and some power-tripping limp-dick fuckstick pulled a gun on me and started shouting at me, I'd probably keep walking towards him, cursing him out, and telling him he'd better make damn sure he aims well.
But either way, what did he expect?
Perhaps he expected "I show you the receipt, from which this number was copied, and I show you your form, onto which it was directly copied, with the error, and you use your head and realize there's an error", rather than "We don't care, sign the paperwork or get off the boat"
I had a heck of a time getting my title and tags for my car last time.
In line with your own re-imagination of the described incident from the article, perhaps you would have had less problem getting your title and tags if you hadn't been so busy throwing feces at the agent trying to give them to you?
So cute. You still think the constitution matters.
(I probably will go to hell for this)
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Do you think it is not newsworthy if it happens to some ordinary Joe or Jane?
I do.
And even if that Joe or Jane is filthy rich, it's still as newsworthy, isn't it? Even if "not at all newsworthy" is your assessment. In which case, why bring up the wealth?
Name names. This thug needs to be held accountable for her abuse of public trust and power.
"On a scale from 1 to 10, people are stupid"
Is anyone surprised by this? America has accepted a dictator as president. It has also accepted an immense unelected government that operates with impunity and without accountability. Abuse of power is normal and expected.
It's the sad state of our country that has created the class warfare mentality that allows you to believe the words you wrote. For my $.02, I don't give a shit what was seized, or who it was seized from...this agent was wrong, pure and simple, and she should be made an example of. The fact of the matter is that what's "news", is only news because it generates revenue for the media. I guarantee you that if Homeland Security took something from some destitute single mom, and the media got wind of it, they'd be all over it. Stop letting your envy get in the way of real life.
Just another day in Paradise
He can't, because it's the official document of his import of a boat. If the sum in the chitty is wrong, and he knows it, then it's defrauding the IRS and avoiding taxes. So he definitely has to ask for the right information to be filled in, and that's what he did. You can't blame him for that.
I've got an idea. Everybody go get a couple of these. Put them in some sort of suspicious enclosure with blinky lights. Go through the border with the device blinking merrily. Get it confiscated.
The DHS will stare at the device, likely confiscate it, eventually get bored and put it in some forgotten corner.
Wait a little while until their brains have fixated on the next Alfalfa.
Drive the local DHS folks bonkers.
Sit back and enjoy a job well done.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Since the CAD is currently weaker than the dollar, having declared it in USD instead of CAD would be adverse to the government, which actually makes it easier. (It depends on the exchange rate at the date of export, but based on today.)
(Rulings adverse to the importer entered after Dec 2004 actually HAVE to come from a formal protest.)
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=e7f7df984a01d3c9478867fa0f872497&rgn=div5&view=text&node=19:2.0.1.1.19&idno=19
19CFR 173:
 173.1 Authority to review for error.
Port directors have broad responsibility and authority to review transactions to ensure that the rate and amount of duty assessed on imported merchandise is correct and that the transaction is otherwise in accordance with the law. This authority extends to errors in the construction of a law and to errors adverse to the Government as well as the importer.
[T.D. 70-181, 35 FR 13429, Aug. 22, 1970, as amended by T.D. 79-221, 44 FR 46830, Aug. 9, 1979]
 173.2 Transactions which may be reviewed and corrected.
The port director may review transactions for correctness, and take appropriate action under his general authority to correct errors, including those in appraisement where appropriate, at the time of:
(a) Liquidation of an entry;
(b) Voluntary reliquidation completed within 90 days after liquidation;
(c) Voluntary correction of an exaction within 90 days after the exaction was made;
(d) Reliquidation made pursuant to a valid protest covering the particular merchandise as to which a change is in order; or
(e) Modification, pursuant to a valid protest, of a transaction or decision which is neither a liquidation or reliquidation.
 173.4a Correction of clerical error prior to liquidation.
Pursuant to section 520(a)(4), Tariff Act of 1930, as amended (19 U.S.C. 1520(a)(4)), the port director may, prior to liquidation of an entry, take appropriate action to correct a clerical error that resulted in the deposit or payment of excess duties, fees, charges, or exactions.
[T.D. 85-123, 50 FR 29957, July 23, 1985]
 162.23 Seizure under section 596(c), Tariff Act of 1930, as amended (19 U.S.C. 1595a(c)).
(...)
(d) Seizure under 19 U.S.C. 1592. If merchandise is imported, introduced or attempted to be introduced contrary to a provision of law governing its classification or value, and there is no issue of admissibility, such merchandise shall not be seized pursuant to 19 U.S.C. 1595a(c). Any seizure of such merchandise shall be in accordance with section 1592 (see  162.75 of this chapter).
As I understand the circumstances, on importation he performed what's called 'prior disclosure' - (Â 162.74 Prior disclosure.) identifying orally or in writing to the customs officer of the violation, before an actual investigation was begun. In this case the importer is supposed to tender any potential penalties/duties (in this case, none, since the import value was actually LOWER than declared) .
And finally:
 162.75 Seizures limited under section 592, Tariff Act of 1930, as amended.
(a) When authorized. Merchandise may be seized for violation of section 592, Tariff Act of 1930, as amended (19 U.S.C. 1592) only if the port director has reasonable cause to believe that a person has violated the statute and that
(1) The person is insolvent,
(2) The person is beyond the jurisdiction of the United States,
(3) Seizure otherwise is essential to protect the revenue, or
(4) Seizure is essential to prevent the introduction of prohibited or restricted merchandise into the Customs territory of the United States.
(b) No seizure if prior disclosure. Under no circumstances shall merchandise be seized under the authority of 19 U.S.C. 1592 if there has been a prior disclosure of the violatio
-Styopa
So you regulate the people who will be regulated because the people who won't be regulated did something bad?
to name the agent publicly?
Why can't we go back to using jumpers to configure slot adapter cards? Why? I say!
He probably works for the DHS, wouldn't surprise me if he participated in this unfortunate situation.
BlameBillCosby.com
I hear you on the point that it would be easier to make an informed judgement if we could get the whole story... but I've had enough experience with the likes of DHS, ATF, and TSA to know that the probability that Arrington's account is at least accurate in regards to the attitude of the agent approaches 1.
Arrington might not be the most reputable source, but neither are the Alphabet Soup agencies.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
No, I'm with pnutjam on this one. Relying solely on guns to handle the situation is a complete backslide when we have some pretty marvelous processes in place that make that unnecessary if we simply participate in them. The second amendment stuff is an argument for entering into an endless morass of violence instead of doing the dull, dreary work of keeping a close eye on what our government is doing at all times.
http://www.rootstrikers.org/
Actually, the point is the only reason you care is because it happened to a rich person. This happens to poor/average people all the time but we don't hear about it and we don't care about it.
I think the reason we care about it is that it's a rights violation and we heard about it. We could give a flying whether it was a mentally ill homeless person camping in Golden Gate Park who had their blanket stolen or someone generally considered morally repugnant, like Larry Ellison, having a yacht stolen
It's kind of hard to care about an event of which you are unaware because some indignant AC fails to successfully communicate about the event in a compelling way, and only offers vague anecdotes about it "happens to poor/average people all the time". Pictures or it didn't happen. Thanks.
That's true, the first thing the United States of America did was get rid of slavery, then they restored all the stolen land to the natives, proving that the War of Independence was about the rights of men everywhere.
1) We did, eventually, get rid of slavery, and it was, again, the blood of free men who made it possible. Your attempt at refutation only serves to further cement my point.
2) Manifest Destiny was not and is not part of the Constitution, and thus, non sequitur.
3) Nobody likes a douchebag pedant, you know.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
I'm a boat owner (cruising sailboat, presently 'dry' while I repair the hull). The boatyard where it is kept includes boats and owners of all kinds. The majority of boat owners in my experience in New England is carpenters, guys who have a small business (single restaurant, dry cleaning shop, a guy who transports cars for a living, etc.) There are a few doctors and lawyers, a couple of $1MM+ catamarans, but most of the boats were bought used for $10,000 to $100,000. These folks are just everyday folks. Some people ski for a hobby, some drive boats around. The annual cost for most boat owners is about the same as the skiers - marina costs run $3000 to $10,000 per year depending on the boat, the location, and the amenities. If I had my boat in the water, at the two places I've been it would be costing me either $75 or $105 per foot for six months. It's a 44 foot boat for the purposes of calculating the cost.
Power boat prices have been down just like house prices because many people used their house equity to get into a boat that was too big & expensive, the value of the boat was less than they owed, and they let boat got repossessed right before or after their house got foreclosed. The price of fuel is also a big consideration for power boats - a 36 foot power boat with twin 340-HP gas engines may burn from 1/6 to 2 gallons per mile depending on how you drive it - below 'hull speed' of 6 knots or thereabouts, boats are much more efficient. A "Cigarette"-typeT go-fast boat may cost $100 per hour to drive.
For two or three years there has been a glut on the market, especially at the very low end - a lot of folks just walked away from their old, paid-for boat, leaving the marina to finally take the boat for the back slip fees. So you can go to most marinas right now and find a pretty good boat that maybe needs a bit of work, and the marina may just give it to you if you will pay a year's slip fees in advance.
Sailboat prices did not slump the same way, in part because apparently sailboaters tend to be more conservative about money - i.e. they're cheap. :) They tend not to buy more boat than they could afford. But according to the folks at the boat show I just attended, things are picking up at all levels.
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
Who cares about the 1st or 4th amendment when we have the 2nd amendment.
I keep telling people that if you have to use the 2nd amendment to correct your government you have already lost. That is all the excuse they need to bring down the boot. Look how well it worked out for Ireland and Pakistan.
And the American Revolutionary way, which is why we are still under British rule. Oh wait, won that one. Never mind.
Slashdot is full of these hate filled malcontents. That is how they've been trained.
At least the rich can do their job here and set precedence for the rest of us. The DHS isn't going to get regulated until some rich people are inconvenienced.
many years ago I imported a broken car from the USA to Canada. I had tonnes of documentation, text messages between me and the seller, private messages from a forum printed out along with the forum posts about the sale, 2 copies of the Bill Of Sale and probably other documents that I'm forgetting about. The officer pretty much tossed all the paperwork aside and said "I don't think you paid what you're saying.. He made up a number which was about $3000 more than the $1500 car I bought. And pretty much told me that if I don't agree with it and pay the extra taxes on importing it, they will just take it. It wasn't until I mentioned the name of a friend that works there they got me off the hook. If I didn't do that, then I probably would have refused the pay, they would have taken the car and I would probably have issues crossing the border after that.
Pretty sure most of the states are going to beat him to it. Hmm, it's almost like a majority of the population is ok with it. Damn politicians, bending to their whims.
OK, with what, banning fully automatic machine guns? That's what many of the people you reference think is going on. That's what some politicians actually claim is going on. That what popular media like the Colbert Report have claimed is going on.
However the truth is quite different. They are proposing to ban rifles that are functionally identical to popular hunting and sporting rifles when a 5 round magazine is inserted into them (note many ship from their respective factories with low capacity 5 or 10 round magazines), rifles that differ only in cosmetics. Hold no more rounds than normal rifles, shoot no faster, shoot the same ammunition, etc.
Do you really think an ignorant public supporting legislation that is intentionally being misrepresented is contradicting the GP's suggestion of gun control being forced, it actually seems to be supporting the GP. The misrepresentation being the mechanism by which the government subverts the system.
That's why I don't sign off on things at 5:30 in the morning. ;)
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
No, it's OK to temporarily seize his boat because there was an error on his paperwork (clerical or not).
No, it is not OK, regardless of the person't wealth. It is not OK to sieze property because of a governmental clerical error. It is not OK to sieze property because of governmental clerical error. It is not OK to put a person in jail temporarily because of a governmental clerical error.
Clerical errors can take *years* to identify and remedy. It is not OK to punish the victim of these errors until the error can be corrected, again, regardless of the wealth of the victim.
Right. No, your other right. No, the other other right.
boats'n'hoes, boats'n'hoes, gotta get more of them boats'n'hoes..
I was stopped for a tail-light out on my truck last night. Two officers in the vehicle and one stayed right at my side with his hand on his firearm at all times. Scary what they are teaching these LEOs these days!
Karma: Bad
Actually the parent is correct. The vast majority of boats really are owned by Joe and Sam the carpenters down the street. Go to most boatyards or marinas, and you'll be able to meet them. Some marinas are definitely gold-plated, but in most cases it's a Bud Light crowd.
Interestingly, in most cases also, the folks in boats don't care how much you make - I've had many a beer sitting around a fire with a guy who owns a $1million + catamaran on one side and a guy who cleans houses for a living with a 25 foot fishing boat on the other. They've known each other for years, and they're both welcome any time on the other's boat. And they both dislike the 'boat snobs' who think the size of their tool makes them important ;) Boat people mostly respect each other because of their common interest - even with the mostly-friendly dichotomy between 'rag-boaters' (sailors) and 'stinkpotters' (power boaters).
There's a Creedence Clearwater song about "people on the river". It's mostly true.
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
Depends on the rich guy.
Arrington is an asshole, but he hasn't pissed off as many people. Bill Gates probably wouldn't get nearly as much support, although some people still might try to look past his history at Microsoft. However, I think if it happened to someone like Rupert Murdoch, Darl McBride, etc. you'd at most get some posts saying that while the government shouldn't act this way, they couldn't have picked a bigger dickhead to harass.
You can even go the other way as well. If this happened to someone who was almost universally loved like Linus or Woz, almost no one would even try to take the governments side.
It was also much more true back in the days when 'yachts' were custom-made wood boats. I've been told that a wood boat takes 2 hours per week for every 10 feet of length to maintain. I think that number goes up a lot above 15 or 20 feet (4-6 meters). So back in the day, a boat of significant length required a full time crew just to keep it afloat. Fiberglass, to a lesser extent steel and aluminum, and relatively 'mass' production methods have rewritten the boat ownership equation.
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
> The government is not out to get you, the hapless individual.
This may be true for the government, but not necessarily true for the individual. There's two sides to the social transaction, and either one can be intractable. The agent could see the victim simply as a target of opportunity. (See: Now I've got you, you sob.)
And no, you don't have to convince the government, you have to convince the agent you are facing.
The agents stated (according to the report) "It's just paperwork, it doesn't matter". Yet when he fails to sign it when expected, suddenly it DOES matter? You can't have it both ways.
Consider a nefarious intent scenario: ... confiscation? Tax evasion investigation/charges?
Once the paperwork is signed, and taken away, there is nobody to attest to the protest that it is incorrect. You say "it is only needed for statistical purposes", yet what are the penalties for it being incorrect?
While I don't assume nefarious intent, you don't NEED intent when dealing with the government, you merely need to examine procedures.
No guns drawn on us, but my wife and I, who really like Happy Jack's in Fort Erie, have lost a bit of desire to go there for lunch because of the assholes manning the US side of the border. On special occasions, we'll push our luck and go, and the Canadians are always cool about it. The Americans are almost always total power-tripping buttheads.
Canadian Customs and Immigration can be butt heads as well. I've had friends detained for hours because an official decided a Canadian could do the work (never mind he was teaching on a very specific subject and methodology that he had years of expertise implementing - and the work fell under NAFTA Professional Categorization). At one point it was looking like I was going to run the session and do the setup all by myself if my coworkers got sent back. We finally decided to simply move the future sessions to the US and avoid the hassle.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Ignore the millionaire's boat for a minute there, Skippy.
If you bought something and were bringing it into the country, and if the government paperwork was incorrect and you tried to correct it, would you expect that the DHS would be capable of actually resolving this issue and fixing the paperwork? Or would you expect them to confiscate what you have?
I don't give a damn if this is a yacht or an computer monitor -- it shouldn't be that difficult to try to work with them to correct broken paperwork.
This is just lazy and incompetent agents.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I'd add this is what brokers are for. If this is $100k+ you don't do these things yourself. Normally, you would call the company you bought the boat from, and they would have to get you the correct paperwork... It's THEIR MISTAKE. Then you go sit in the agent's office wasting YOUR time, not hers until its right.
This is where he's way to paranoid because he does web news and all that JuJu crap. He's totally correct lawyers will cause all sorts of grief over typos... But in reality that doesn't happen very often. Also, customs agents aren't your mom, they won't wait, and won't tell you what to do... They expect you to know the hoops.
Next time HIRE a Broker so you don't screw up!
Unfortunately for Marx and his adherents, the math just doesn't work out. Without going into the gory details and math, here is an analogy. Imagine a society with complete 'equality' - everyone has the same resources. This is equivalent to a wheat field - every stalk is the same height, everyone is equally productive, everyone has the same demands for resources. A nice grass lawn is another example.
But if you look at this from a systems point of view, this is a very artificial system. It requires a lot of work to maintain this against the natural effects of its environment. It has to be plowed, seeded, mowed in the case of a lawn. It has to be treated with chemicals to prevent various pests and weeds (nature) from destroying that nice pretty evenness, and fertilizer to correct the nutritional deficiencies that will develop over time. And this expenditure of energy and resources has to be maintained increasingly over time.
And what happens if this artificial enforcement of the desired plan is stopped? Nature comes back. Messy, uncoordinated, glorious Nature will return and a real ecosystem will be regenerated. An ecosystem that has biological entities at all scales (not all the same size and shape), competing freely with one another for the available resources, at the same time cooperating with each other to retain the existing resources within the system, and to optimize the utilization of available energy. And the natural system that results will also be optimally capable of surviving, adapting to and prospering with changes in the environment.
This is analogous to free enterprise and to democracy - the same math applies as to ecosystems. Note that monopolies, manipulation of government, and dictatorship all have the same problem as the wheat field, but I have blathered long enough! See the book "The Edge of Chaos".
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
Somebody once said, "The three most dangerous words in the world are 'Go ahead, shoot.'"
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
It is news if the government can seize your property just because of their bureaucratic error. Do you think this cannot happen to poor people too? Only, for them, it won't be a boat, but likely some part of their livelihood.
We are *lucky* some rich person has been inconvenienced in this way. Otherwise, no one would ever know about this particular ability of the government to fuck with you. Unless you believe that they only screw with rich people.
If DHS steals a rich person's boat, they can get another. If they steal MY boat, that is pretty much most of my net worth gone. So GO RICH PEOPLE - Get as much publicity as you can if DHS abuses you. It will make it better for me too!
I'm glad that the IRS agent you worked with was helpful. The one I'm working with is not. I've been trying to convince them for over 4 years now that I actually was married and had a dependent child in 2000. They accept that I was married and had a dependent child in 1999, and that I was married and had a dependent child in 2001, but I have no proof that I was married and had a dependent child in 2000 so I owe them $27k in taxes.
The 3 times I have had to deal with Airport security they really were about moving people through as fast as possible while not violating any of their little rules. The worst time I had was at the local courthouse doing my civic duty, I wanted to ream that guy a new one, but I had better things to do that day then end up in jail.
I thought we already made a choice that rich people are more worthy of protection, like, a couple of centuries ago, if not earlier.
May Peace Prevail On Earth
I guarantee you that if Homeland Security took something from some destitute single mom, and the media got wind of it, they'd be all over it. Stop letting your envy get in the way of real life.
And you'd be wrong. This shit happens every day at the border and at airports, and even along roadways. People doing absolutely nothing wrong are pulled over and detained for hours, goods are confiscated, possessions are damaged. I personally know of one person who was pulled over in Colorado for speeding (4MPH over...) and sat on the side of the road with her 2 kids under 10years old for SIX FUCKING HOURS in 90+ degree heat while DEA tore her car apart. She politely pointed out a procedural error of the officer that pulled her over and the next thing you know there's a DEA officer there. Why? Who the fuck knows. He was chatting with my friend being all friendly and said he had a drug dog in training in his vehicle, and would it be ok to just use this as a training excercise and let the dog sniff around the car. Believing she had nothing to fear she agreed. The dog reacted to something, or more likely to nothing, and they treated it like a full on smuggling incident from that point on and had multiple state patrol and DEA vehicles there in minutes.
They never had any reasonable suspicion and never found anything, and you never heard shit about it even though it's been in letters to the editor for 3 major news agencies.
"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
My wife and I visited Niagra back in the late 90s. She is American and I was a H1B visa older (6 year legal resident originally from the UK). No problems going over to Canada but when I came back we pulled up to the border control toll plaza, handed over our passports (mine included the visa that still had five years left on it) and the ass said "don't ever cross the border again - I could rip this out of your passport right now and tear it up and send your wife home crying".)
"Thanks officer"
F*** them, hired goons.
Uh, no.
Colorado's proposed legislation is limiting magazines to 15 for rifles, 8 for shotguns.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/us/gun-control-laws-clear-initial-hurdle-in-colorado.html?_r=0
Maybe it's you who needs to stop misrepresenting?
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Because it's utter bullshit.
FYI, this nation, the United States of America, wasn't founded with fancy words and courtrooms, it was created with the blood of men and women who would have rather died standing as free people, than live kneeling as slaves.
... and slave owners.
May Peace Prevail On Earth
I think you are mistaking cause for effect.
The reason libertarians get up in arms about rich people is that is what the stories are about. If they don't know if something specific is happening to poor people, they can't complain about it on-topic.
I don't think that the libertarians around here act at all like you suggest they do. They respond to stories. It just so happens that the media only likes writing about the rich and those with notoriety. The understanding is that the poor are subject to the same, or worse than the rich people, so the fact that the rich get fucked over means that the poor are probably getting it worse, only no one was aware of it until now.
In short, having a story about a rich person having problems isn't just about the rich people, if you understand that if they have it bad, the middle class and the poor have it much worse.
Acting like an asshole isn't grounds to confiscate a boat, so if the customs agent posted such a blog it would only confirm that she's corrupt.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Those guards at Niagara Falls are out of control. I had a similar experience when I was visiting with my teenage daughter. Crossing to Canada was no more hassle than buying a soda at a burger joint. When coming back to the US, the guards insisedt we proceed separately and in single file. I go through first and proceed to wait for my daughter behind me, and she suddenly gets delayed when being asked all kinds of questions. At that point the guards started demanding I leave the area because I had already been processed and threatening me with arrest. I tried to explain I wasn't going to leave until my underage daughter go through. Needless to say, I wasn't going to leave her alone in a foreign country.
We both got through in the end, but it was an ugly tense situation which could have gone very badly.
The government is not out to get you, the hapless individual.
The government is out to get anyone they can. Why would they care about you, the hapless individual?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
http://wh.gov/vyC1
There's not reason to let it fade into oblivion without making a lot of noise. We can't make it too easy for the bastards.
Not really.
This is a basic customs issue that could impact ANY ONE that has something that a customs agent wants to steal. This is a very fundemental issue of corruption that you should no be so quick to excuse or ignore.
YOU WILL be next.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
The form almost certainly cares about the value at the time of import (since customs duty is based on value of the import, not the USD-value-of-the-foreign-purchase-price-of-the-import-based-on-exchange-rate-at-the-time-payments-were-made), and requires the value to be declared in US dollars, not foreign currency, and Canadian dollars currently trade at very close to 1:1 with US dollars (which Arrington acknowledges, though he states that wasn't true when he made most of the payments on the boat, but doesn't explain why he thinks that is relevant.) Given that the currency exchange rates are fluctuating and, at any given point in time, there is a range of plausible valuations though the current price on any particular exchange will be fixed, the exact CAD purchase price is as accurate as any other valuation in USD.
If Arrington refuses to sign the form because he disputes the CBP's valuation (and, therefore, the amount of import duty that must be paid prior to releasing the boat) then, whatever the basis for the dispute of the valuation, it needs to be resolved before the boat can be released.
Now, maybe if more details are available there is information which supports this being something done wrong bu Customs and Border Protection, but right now it looks like Arrington was presented an accurate form.
How about a clear clause in the law to state that: "The value does not have to be exact", that there's no penalty for small errors. Otherwise, he had every right to be careful - more so with an item that can be expensive.
going the opposite direction. I just notated on the form which information was false but that the agent insisted I needed to sign it regardless of whether it was true. They didn't seem too happy about that but let me through anyways.
Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
Then why didn't the agent simply tell Arrington to do so? She should be far more familiar with the paperwork and process than he is. His suggestion was not unreasonable, but the agent's response sure as hell was.
Remember, you can't look dignified when your having fun! Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out of it alive
Why is an administration who has been militarizing police forces so interested in disarming civilians?
Ah, you clearly don't remember that those same people were already working for the DHS and TSA and behaving exactly the same way back when your holy emperor Bush Jr. was in charge. If we're going to blame a political party (which we shouldn't, because it's happening regardless of which one is in charge), then the Republicans are the ones who actually caused this problem.
Wait, no I'm not anymore. Shit.
> Actually, the point is the only reason you care is because it happened to a rich person.
Bullshit.
He cares because it matters. The only relevant aspect about the victim is the fact that we get to hear about it.
Caring about the situation is entirely orthogonal to that.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Yes, they did.
The only part that needs straightened out is his signature.
Assuming that the CBP has a standard method of calculating valuation (which is always approximate: there is a difference between "price" and "value") of the import based on purchase records and it was correctly applied (which may well use the exchange rate and the time of import, for purchases that are recent enough that the purchase price is even relevant to assessing the valuation), then the form was correct, Arrington's assumption that the form was incorrect because the valuation in USD happened to match the CAD purchase price was wrong, and the agent ws correct in what she said.
If you read the article you would discover that the number on the document he was asked to sign was taken directly from the invoice printed by the company...except it was converted from the Canadian dollars on the invoice into U.S. dollars are the form which the government created and asked him to sign.
So, let's recap, we have a document from the Canadian company which states the price for paid for the boat in Canadian dollars. We have another document created by the Customs Department using data taken from the document provided by the Canadian company that uses the same number but states that it is U.S. dollars. The question for you is, who made the mistake, the Canadian company which said that it was paid in Canadian dollars, or the U.S. Customs Service which said that the Canadian company was paid in U.S. dollars?
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
1) doesn't always work. I've only had one thing confiscated by US customs: A shilling. It's an obsolete coin, no longer legal tender anywhere in the world. Just a little disc of cheap metal. I posted one to a collector in the US. The envelope arrived, but the coin was gone: They actually forwarded on an empty envelope! I'm guessing because of the rule against importing currency. A shilling isn't currency, and hasn't been for decades, but the American inspector presumably wasn't familiar with disused British coinage.
And your leadership seems to agree. That's why they are also more valuable, and therefor warrant being protected by teams of people with full auto assault weapons and large clips but you and I are not able to legally obtain the same protections.
"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
and this one time.. at band camp...
gotta love the anecdotes in this thread; superlatively delicious.
This was addressed in the comments on the article. He offered to make the change, the agent informed him he wasn't allowed to change the form.
Whichever has the lower /. ID.
Middle class canadians. At least they have healthcare when they get laid off.
Then there must be a definition for how exact "exact" must be, and how big a difference is considered "not exact".
Laws are not computer programs. Laws describe the standards for what a society normally considers fair, but they can't describe the abnormal circumstances that sometimes apply. That's what the judicial branch is for.
If the law says that the customs form must be filled out, then it is up to the individual to fulfill that law to a degree which they think is fair. If the DHS disagrees, the law has procedures to be followed to resolve the dispute. If someone thinks their particular case is abnormal enough that the law shouldn't apply (or should apply differently), they can sue.
That's how every other law works. If a police officer sees someone speeding, they aren't required to enforce the speed limit - they can use judgement to determine whether the speed is a risk to society. If a contract is agreed upon by two parties, and both decide to ignore it, then there is no legal problem. Laws should not prescribe behavior, but rather describe what behavior the society expects.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
In a country where the constitution was deliberately crafted around the idea of protecting AFFLUENT CAUCASIAN MALE citizens from governmental abuse and seeking to empower the AFFLUENT CAUCASIAN MALE citizens with means to call their government on any and all abuse.
I think you forgot something...
Yes, this shouldn't have happened and was wrong, but I've only got so much outrage to go around. If he can afford to buy a boat, I'm sure he has an attorney. He's a big boy, he'll figure it out.
In another very plausible series of anecdotes, the government came back a few years later and ruined your friend's lives because they didn't have all the i-dots and t-crosses on the forms.
Poor rich man. Maybe next time you should buy American.
Sure they do, but it usually involves guns and homemade explosives.
Taking a boat because of the paperwork error he described is more outlandish and unreasonable an action than if it were something smaller. Not because the non-wealthy are downtrodden, or whatever you were fed in your poli sci class, but because it's a government agent acting seemingly without reason or limit.
from outside the country and lie about their value but you can bring in H1-B visa people and lie about their salaries? Nice.
Yet another example of government corruption
They take care of the customs and other international trade-preventing economy-suppression measures.
The majority doesn't rule in a Constitutional Republic. It never has, and never will. The point of the the Constitution was to keep in check the power of the government and those citizens who would seek to infringe on those liberties. This is not a difficult concept to grasp. The constitution and the founding fathers knew the dangers of mob mentality. This whole thing is hardly new, and the need of the people to be able to defend themselves rightfully is spelled out for just such a purpose.
When some guy starts insisting that the government should rebuild its procedures to compute value using a foreign currency
Except he didn't do that:
I pointed out the error and suggested that we simply change the currency from US $ to CAD $ so that is was correct. Or instead, amend the amount so that it was correct in U.S. dollars.
He insisted that the information on the form was correct, he didn't care what currency it was in, just that it was correct.
I've often thought that the problems inherent in democratically elected governments (yes, I know the U.S. is a Republic wherein sovereignty lies in the person, and not the population at large, but the electoral process is democratic) is that they allow individuals to collectively exercise political power without any individual responsibility. Thus, there is no incentive to seek checks on abuse of such power, when such abuse affects "others".
If there was commensurate risk to each individual in proportion to government abuse of power, things might be different.
Enter the "crazies", you know those that get ticked off, for some state injustice, perceived, or real, and take it out on "society": you know, "you", "your kids", if you happen to be in the "wrong place at the wrong time". Think rogue LA cop Chris Dorner. Doesn't matter if they "get him" in the end: if, in his rage, he kills your wife and kid, they are still dead.
So, the premise is this: increased government abuse of power correlates positively with greater number of "crazies" thinking their constitutional rights are violated (some times they are, some times they're delusional), who will take their rage out on you.
The more abusive government gets, the more likely "crazies" will harm you, or your family.
Perhaps we just need more Dorners, to show the utter incompetence of government to stop them before they cause harm: "Steal my boat, will ya? I'll kill the next 20 people I see!" After all, "the people" are ultimately responsible for government abuse, and should suffer if "they" allow it to persist. Yes, I know that is a falacious argument and completely disregards the rule of law. However, statistically it holds in the sense that the more abusive government becomes, the greater the chance that someone will "snap", and therefore you will suffer collateral damage
So, every time you turn a blind eye to this kind of abuse, you place your kids at greater risk of some "crazies" killing them.
We accept government because order strikes us as safer than anarchy, but at some point of government corruption, that stops being true. Given the propensitiy for public fear to be greatly out of proportion to real risks, perhaps that can be used to an advantage in encouraging a curtailment of state abuse before it truely reaches the point that anarchy (and thus chaotic revolition) actually are to be preferred.
Won't you think of the children?
Recall the mantra: The more abusive government gets, the more likely "crazies" will harm you, or your family.
In Liberty, Rene
...then why are you working with only one agent, if they're not working toward the truth?
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Since the beguinning of this US economy slowdown (world recesion) us and canada $ are in parity, so $1 US equal 1$ can. +/- 2cents big deal. !
Ceci n'est pas une Signature !
It wasn't DHS "stealing" a boat, it was them refusing to release it without a signature.
Ans there you go misrepresenting the facts too. You missed the part where they refused to provide the correct paperwork. In orher words, they refused him any legal means of getting his boat.
For no reason.
We don't know whether the agent in question had the authority to make changes to the legal documents.
Oh yeah, and she quite clearly told a half truth (technically true, but intentionally deceptive) to the person she phones.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Or apparently, within 100 miles of the border, based on latest reports...
And no, you don't have to convince the government, you have to convince the agent you are facing.
The agent is an agent of the government, and has superiors. Their decisions can be overridden.
The agents stated (according to the report) "It's just paperwork, it doesn't matter". Yet when he fails to sign it when expected, suddenly it DOES matter? You can't have it both ways.
The exact value on the paperwork doesn't matter, but the paperwork being filled out and signed does matter.
Once the paperwork is signed, and taken away, there is nobody to attest to the protest that it is incorrect.
The person who can attest to the protest is Mr. Arrington himself. If he signs the paper with a slightly-off value, and is questioned about it later, he can simply explain that the value was already filled in, and his instructions were that the precision wasn't important. Surely there is some other paperwork attesting to the boat's value that can be referred to, and can be produced later. With an acknowledgement of the error and an attempt to correct it, the questioning agent has no reason to suspect further discrepancies.
You say "it is only needed for statistical purposes", yet what are the penalties for it being incorrect? ... confiscation? Tax evasion investigation/charges?
Actually being charged with anything or having anything permanently confiscated would require a judgement of criminal intent, and that's again where attitude is influential. Using fighting tactics looking for an easy way to "win" is a pretty good indicator that you have something else you're hiding... that's when you'll get more investigations.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
That was his mistake. He should have just made the change, initialed it, signed the doc and handed it over. It would have been upon the agent to deny accepting it, who probably wouldn't have batted an eye and taken the doc. By raising it, he brought attention to it... which then caused the problem.
You have already been told that the customs agents do have the authority to make corrections.
And that's what really sucks.
The Comprehensive Forfeiture Law of 1984 gives them broad seizure powers. Boats, houses, money, anything if they think it's been used in the drug trade. Microscopic amounts of coke in your twenty dollar bills? Lose the bills and your car that's transporting those bills.
This happens on the Interstate daily. Dan Lundgren was very proud of this bill.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/19/dan-lungren-drug-warrior-reelection_n_2159755.html
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Asset+forfeiture
That heist has state-sponsored written all over it. Probably pulled off by one of those Euro countries that's bankrupt or almost bankrupt like Greece, Italy, Spain or Portugal. Might have even been pulled by the French too.
Because the incompetent, power-tripping agent told him he wasn't allowed to.
Except this happens all the time to trick people into signing confessions for crimes without support of a lawyer.
Fixed that for you.
The 2cnd one piece of a deterrent, just like cops are a deterrent and not the only solution to crime. Such as better quality jobs and living conditions, happy people, good communities.
Therefore the 2cnd amendment is relevant as one deterrent, but going directly to the 2cnd to deal with 1 asshole is an overreaction. But feeling oppressed because they (DHS moron) have a gun and you do not is not an overreaction. Being sarcastic and ironic about it and pointing it out and making a ruckus for it is normal.
Personally I think 99% of government employees, customs agents, etc could do their job without weapons IMO. Even traffic cops in most area's. But people in this country don't respect each other enough to deal with their problems like gentleman and ladies.
So were (as a Nation) back to wanting guns to be respected and that rolls both ways amongst civilians and not civilians. Lets fix that problem first aye?
You could always advocate getting away from a adversarial justice system that rewards prosecutors for conviction percentages as opposed to actually making sure that the people they jail are guilty. You could put higher penalties on corruption by public servants, and you could put someone in place to arrest and charge those servants who are otherwise immune. There are a lot of situations where checks and balances are broken, or the check is managed by an individual who is overwhelmed by other issues.
We could try to identify where process and fairness break down and correct them as a society.
Point is, there's plenty you could do other than throw up your hands and say, "It's either this or SATANIC ANARCHY!"
The government is not out to get you, the hapless individual. The government is out to get all the other assholes who screw over the system, and you just happen to have aroused suspicion. Once you're under suspicion, you have two options. You can be offended and return the offense, approaching every interaction as though you were going to battle, or you can convince the government that you're not the criminal they're looking for, but merely someone who deviated a bit too far from their expectations. The latter's really not that hard, and can help to stretch the bounds of their expectations.
good dog.
No, he didn't cause the problem. He was punished for finding and demonstrating it.
Always going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse.
What I don't understand is why he didn't just make a note on the document then sign it.
Probably because this isn't fantasy land; out in the real world, you can't magically fuck with government forms and giggle like a simpering idiot after the fact.
Bureaucrats and the people they deal with are all human; some are petty, some are earnest and hard working, some care, some don't. I just don't buy the story of the person who posts their blog first, or has a bigger platform from which to complain.
Let me guess: you work for DHS. Which is why you felt the need to come in butthurt and complain about the story, calling the guy a liar for no reason. Are you really so ignorant as to have a hard time believing that these thugs with badges would do such a thing? It happens ALL the time. WAKE UP.
Because it's utter bullshit.
FYI, this nation, the United States of America, wasn't founded with fancy words and courtrooms, it was created with the blood of men and women who would have rather died standing as free people, than live kneeling as slaves.
... and slave owners.
...
I wonder how Alexander Hamilton would have dealt with annoying pedants and their diversionary tactics...
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Costal Craft builds high tech - high performance - luxury yachts designed for the Pacific Northwest. 48' Coastal Craft 420 IPS
The 48' Coastal Craft 450 IPS lists for $1.2 million.
From U.S. Customs and Border Protection: Importing a boat for personal use into the U.S.Importing a boat for personal use into the U.S.
Rates of Duty: Pleasure boats are generally dutiable when imported into the United States. The following duty rates apply to boats imported for recreational purposes:
-Sailboats and motorboats other than outboard motorboats: 1.5 percent
TechCrunch Guy could easily owe the government $10-$20K in import duties and on up from there.
He needs to show proof of ownership, such as a bill of sale.
Proof that the boat conforms with EPA regulations (Engine Declaration Form).
The documentation on a boat in this class has to be tight.
Welcome to the real world, where border guards carry guns and water is wet.
FWIW, Canada does not allow persons with DUI's to enter their country
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/402/~/entering-the-u.s.-and-canada-with-dui-offenses
Part of the problem is the pay is so bad now they end up with many people who shouldn't be doing any job that gives them any kind of authority whatsoever. The job and the pay sucks so the major perk is your ability to abuse the power vested in you by people that should know better.
So the alternative is to run a live broadcast instead.
"This is Edison Carter, Live and Direct..."
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Millions of people can invite themselves into the United States and the government does very little.
Try to bring in your own boat and that's a serious offence.
Are you complaining that the guy who can publicly call out bad behavior by the government is calling them out? Are you suggesting that it would be better if he just quietly availed himself of his preferential status in US society? If he doesn't call out the DHS, who will? Who can?
Have you seen the US and Canadian exchange rate recently? This is over a difference of less than 2%.
Sorry... problem should have been in quotes like "problem". :D
No I'm complaining that the people who have no practical redress against bad behavior by the government are the ones who can't publicly call them out.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
You having the same weapons won't give you the same protection. These people go through enormous amount of *routine* training.
In fact, if you put yourself against a criminal, chances are:
1. He is more likely to have more powerful, illegally obtained gun. No matter where you draw the line what is legal.
2. He is more likely to have more experience with the gun, because this is something he may be doing for a while.
3. He is more likely to be ready to shoot you, while you are hesitating. If he is already breaking the law, he just won't care. While you, may very well be hesitating.
You can definitely fix most of those by training yourself (not sure how are you going to learn to shoot at people though), but again, put against criminals, this is an uphill battle, most people won't (and shouldn't for that matter) fight.
May Peace Prevail On Earth
While in the extreme form that you describe, it does require a lot of external pressure to be maintained (which in turn implies that there is some group that is NOT equal), the extreme disparity which currently exists in the US is nearly equally destructive to social goods...including democracy.
The proper answer is a strongly graduated tax on income that doesn't have loopholes, and doesn't have any sharp boundaries (so that one is always better off when one earns more money). My usual answer to this is a tax of the form
tax = taxRate * income - guaranteedBaseLevel
This means that if you earn no income, you will still get a guaranteed income. The size of it is adjustable. Some people favor $0, but I'd go for a considerably higher level. My (current) idea is that with no income the tax should be sufficiently negative to equal a 40 hour/week job with a rate of $5/hour.
Note that I feel this should be a linear tax, but one could add in a higher power. This would make it more like the current tax system (except that there should be no loopholes and ALL income should be counted), but to me it makes more sense (and leads to a simpler tax system) to just have an adjustable base level. There is a question as to whether there should be a minimum age for this to kick in, but I don't believe that there should be. OTOH, the money earned should be the property of the individual earning it, NOT of their parents. So it should be held in escrow (earning interest at the same rate as long-term treasury bills) until they were, say 12, at which point they (not their parents) should be granted limited access to it. Say half the base level. But it should be available for legitimate expenses, like medical emergencies. Not routine expenses, though. That's up to their parents.
N.B.: I'm also in favor of universal healh care at a basic level.
This would be a system which wouldn't unfairly penalize anyone severely, and which would make it more difficult for the wealthy to take advantage of the less wealthy. Naturally it wouldn't prevent them from paying people to do things, but that's hardly unfair, as long as they have a reasonable alternative.
FWIW, I consider most inherited wealth to be unfair in a system where many people are lacking basic survival needs (clothes, shelter, food, transport, etc....though I could public transport as transport, if it's available). However, I also consider confiscatory taxation of inherited wealth to be unfair. You need a system that balances in between. The system that I proposed does, by eliminating the threat of "Do what I say or starve!" and it's equivalents.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Allowed them to vote and speak freely, no?
May Peace Prevail On Earth
Every interaction I've ever had with a law enforcement agent that resulted in longer than 10 seconds resulted in them falsifying their report and/or committing perjury if it went to that level.
Both reports against me, and reports filed on my behalf.
I can count the number of 1 minute conversations with police in particular where they haven't lied on the hands of an amputated quadrapalegic. Agents of ATF, FBI, are more cunning and tend to lies of omission. and DHS agents -- I think should be executed for conspiracy.
In the vast majority of those, they had a partner that corroborated -- or at the minimum, remained silent.
So yeah -- I believe him. Pretty much period.
Unfortunately, I can't admit this during voir dire... or professional circumstances.
Law Enforcement -- not upstanding enough to be trusted
I believe that the original phrase was "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". The bit in the us amendment was not directly connected to that. That one comes in as:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants...
So while the meaning that you stated is there (given certain interpretations of what you meant) the GP poster was also right to question your statement of it.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
All good. 8-)
I hope we see good results from this publicity. Or at least discover the other half of the story. You know, the US's version of the "truth".
Always going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse.
Ah. So the Canadians were excluded, or had to go through that process. Nice.
I've heard many more reports about US border security being intolerable that of the Canadians OR the Mexicans. And those are really the only two alternatives that apply analogously.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
That's ABSURD!!! He was less than 1% off the actual price.
Having crossed a fair few borders in my life, the US ones are without a doubt the most unpleasant ones.Worse even than the former East German one (albeit on a West German passport... I'm sure with an eastern block passport they would have been even worse).
It's odd, given that on the whole the US is full of friendly people trying to be helpful... all the assholes seem to hang out at the border and at airports.
I got similar treatment at the East German border, with an American passport. We were in a Belgian car and were waved through, but my father insisted on getting our passports stamped. When he saw them, the guard at the gate jerked back and reached for his gun. After a bit of questioning, though, we were on our way. It was totally worth it: they used a whole page for stamps and signatures and stuff.
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
And remember that this "border" is defined to include all international airports, no matter where in the country they are. Also all ocean shores.
IOW, they've defined it to include almost all the population. If you aren't covered now, all they need to do is redefine a current airport.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
You won't get through to them, mate. As (I think) Sinclair said, roughly paraphrased - the average American worker doesn't perceive himself as worker, but as temporarily inconvenienced millionaire.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
I pointed out the error and suggested that we simply change the currency from US $ to CAD $ so that is was correct. Or instead, amend the amount so that it was correct in U.S. dollars.
Author's concern was not currency type as you see from the quote above.. his concern is accuracy. There are also tax implications so this is not just for "statistics". Some people can get away their whole life by signing everything without regard. Others get bit hard, i.e. lose jobs, confiscated property etc. etc. His boat took approximately a year to build so unless the builders are backlogged on orders someone else on Slashdot pointed it that there is roughly $2500 change in taxation on a $1M boat for an incorrect entry.
Read the party platform CAREFULLY. I'm not a Libertarian because I'm a libertarian.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
It was also much more true back in the days when 'yachts' were custom-made wood boats. I've been told that a wood boat takes 2 hours per week for every 10 feet of length to maintain. I think that number goes up a lot above 15 or 20 feet (4-6 meters). So back in the day, a boat of significant length required a full time crew just to keep it afloat. Fiberglass, to a lesser extent steel and aluminum, and relatively 'mass' production methods have rewritten the boat ownership equation.
I looked at buying a boat one time. The rule of thumb I was taught was about 10% of the boats value in annual maintenance and fees.
Sorry, but there HAVE been prior stories. IPADs being stolen by border guards, etc. Even someone who got his computer back because it had Debian on it, the the guard couldn't use it.
But nothing was done. There was a wave of noise that was quickly submerged, and the thefts continued unabated, and, as far as I can tell, the thieves were never punished.
If you haven't seen it happening before, you haven't been paying attention. There have also been reports of border guards pulling aside pretty girls to feel them up, and I seem to recall one account where they made her strip first. Those, however, seem to have received more official notice, and I believe that, at least officially, now the girls are supposed to only by stripped by other women. But if I recall correctly, parents still don't have the right to be present.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
You're an idiot. I am not saying that it should be news because of this person's status. I'm saying that it's being reported on because of it. I dont agree with that, in fact I abhore it. My whole fucking point was that it is wrong to dismiss this bad behavior of govt agents, and the level of wealth of the victim is and should remain wholly irrelevent.
I guarantee you that if Homeland Security took something from some destitute single mom, and the media got wind of it, they'd be all over it. Stop letting your envy get in the way of real life.
And you'd be wrong. This shit happens every day at the border and at airports, and even along roadways. People doing absolutely nothing wrong are pulled over and detained for hours, goods are confiscated, possessions are damaged. I personally know of one person who was pulled over in Colorado for speeding (4MPH over...) and sat on the side of the road with her 2 kids under 10years old for SIX FUCKING HOURS in 90+ degree heat while DEA tore her car apart. She politely pointed out a procedural error of the officer that pulled her over and the next thing you know there's a DEA officer there. Why? Who the fuck knows. He was chatting with my friend being all friendly and said he had a drug dog in training in his vehicle, and would it be ok to just use this as a training excercise and let the dog sniff around the car. Believing she had nothing to fear she agreed. The dog reacted to something, or more likely to nothing, and they treated it like a full on smuggling incident from that point on and had multiple state patrol and DEA vehicles there in minutes.
They never had any reasonable suspicion and never found anything, and you never heard shit about it even though it's been in letters to the editor for 3 major news agencies.
According to the US Supreme Court, an alert from a drug dog is "probable cause" and "reasonable suspicion" exists to pull her over for exceeding the speed limit by any amount
What does any of that have to do with my post?
http://www.rootstrikers.org/
..to the new normal. Rapidly approaching the state where regulation complexity exceeds economic effort.
Organization? You must be joking..
There are other options I'd like to bring along.
- an Italian-American mother who don't take no crap
This.
Who needs a gun, when you could be packing a Sicilian matriarch?
Huh. I'm living in Germany. My mother's 77 years old and an American. If something breaks and there is no receipt, she says "give me that". And gets it replaced. I have no idea how she does it, and I am not sure I want to know.
She occasionally helps refugees who have a problem with government officials. Again, I am not sure I want to know how she does that, but she has some sort of reputation there. She says she's too old to let herself get bullshitted anymore.
You're right. Let's even out everything, so that nobody anywhere has a private boat. And decisions on who gets to use the public boats will be made by the same TSA agent who confiscated the boat in the first place. Now THAT is a society I could sign on for!!!
It's like Chewing gum in 4th grade, if there isn't enough for everyone, nobody gets any!
Say no, nd tell her to take it to court. Posession is 9/10 of the law.
So...why would anyone do a job, such a mowing a neighbors yard as a teen, if they would get paid for doing nothing?
and having the government dictate how children are paid for chores by their parents?
You've been reading way too much Plato's Replublic
I am also in favor of the 2nd, I just think it's overplayed currently and not really at risk. Despite your opinion to the contrary, Obama doesn't want your guns.
Cheap storage VM.
I wonder how Alexander Hamilton would have dealt with annoying pedants and their diversionary tactics...
I think it would have involved something about a meeting on neutral ground, pistols, and ten paces.
These days it's lawyers & bank balances at ten paces.
Looking around at the results, I'm not certain it's an improvement, overall, for society at large.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
On the other hand seizing a phone is an everyday thing and not news while this is something people find more interesting and so is a better example. The "rights of the wealthy" doesn't have anything to do with it, the government employee abused her power and that's the real story, no matter who it happens to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritocracy
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Sailboat prices did not slump the same way, in part because apparently sailboaters tend to be more conservative about money - i.e. they're cheap. :)
There's a reason sailboat owners own a sailboat instead of a powerboat: they're too cheap for gas.
I personally find sailing a much more gratifying experience. But I'm probably also cheap.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
He actually proposed amending it. FTFA: "I pointed out the error and suggested that we simply change the currency from US $ to CAD $ so that is was correct. Or instead, amend the amount so that it was correct in U.S. dollars."
So suck up to power? That's your solution? I can see no possible way that would ever turn out wrong a few years down the line.
No guns drawn on us, but my wife and I, who really like Happy Jack's in Fort Erie, have lost a bit of desire to go there for lunch because of the assholes manning the US side of the border. On special occasions, we'll push our luck and go, and the Canadians are always cool about it. The Americans are almost always total power-tripping buttheads.
Canadian Customs and Immigration can be butt heads as well. I've had friends detained for hours because an official decided a Canadian could do the work (never mind he was teaching on a very specific subject and methodology that he had years of expertise implementing - and the work fell under NAFTA Professional Categorization). At one point it was looking like I was going to run the session and do the setup all by myself if my coworkers got sent back. We finally decided to simply move the future sessions to the US and avoid the hassle.
You seem to be suffering from the delusion that it is any easier for a Canadian instructor (with the same criteria you list) to perform his duties in the United States. Moreover, your clients may have the unsettling surprise of being refused departure if they don't answer the questions correctly, as well. Imagine the difficulties your instructor gets to experience, times 15. This issue occurs in both directions.
Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
You have no idea how capitalism works.
Capitalism exploits human laziness, making the smart rich through wise investment rather than labour.
Working twice as many hours won't make you wealthy.
It's the great American lie which has made us the shithole we are today.
That's interesting news in itself - it highlights that the unacceptable is commonplace.
You saying that defending the 2cnd amendment being an argument for an endless morass of violence. I was pointing out that it is a relevant argument and that the 2cnd amendment does not = lawless anarchy.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article38581.html
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article39053.html
Captcha: uneven
The agent didn't need any kind of authority. If you are signing an official document under penalty of perjury, -you- can modify the information. Cross out, write-in, and initial.
That's what the customs agent should have done -- just cross out USD, write in CAD, and have the guy initial and sign it. Alternately, the guy could have done it himself, but a lot of people aren't aware of things like this, and the DHS is, from what I hear, the single most poorly-trained and poorly-supervised government department out there.
Hehehe (wall of text inc), no he doesn't personally want them in a literal sense. But he serves people that do want you to NOT have them. And very very relevant reasons. Lets put it this way my sister works in big government. She spent all day picketing in cold weather to get her constituents energy bill noticed. Meanwhile Obama wasn't even at the white house, he was in FL golfing with an Exxon executive.
The big government types want our guns because when they do shit like that they can completely disrespect every American that puts their ass on the line to have some say in our government. You may not buy it, but out government is completely bought and paid for and your vote has meant absolutely nothing for the last few cycles.
They legitimately want to avoid chaos and anarchy by doing things like this and creating organizations like the DHS, they don't want our country to look like one of those countries were basically law, rules, regulations, whatever are unenforceable by legitimate means. We've been digging our Nation collectively a grave for the last 50 years by completely snubbing libertarians and increasingly banning everything and becoming more authoritarian, while neglecting to build any new infrastructure, promote good social values and sustainable lifestyles.
So yeah, I know the people in power who artificially inflated our currency year after year want to see us stripped of our guns. I'm not worried about it, I don't own guns. But I kinda chuckle and laugh inside a little every time people think its A.O.K. to disrespect the 2cnd. It really means allot and is worth its meaning alone.
Now its getting to the point were your a considered a child killer or a bad terrorist if you think its legitimate to escalate to violent warfare for your beliefs. I hate to say this but its a fact of life and when people forget that and live in candyland were authority always know better is when bad things (tm) happen.
To many people don't truly understand the kind of bullying and harassment being perpetrated on us. We are being disrespected and treated like infirm and less then human by these organizations and every time some incident happens its being thrown in everyones face. There's a quote rolling around on slashsdot from Janet Reno, and she openly admits thats congresses agenda to disarm us.
As the leader of the American people Obama is duty bound whether voted for or not to up-hold American values. I know after serving in the military what they are. I know that no one represents them anymore. Anyway, I really hope that our new gun free (in random decades) land will be peaceful and people will be able to defend themselves through non-violent means just like they do today. But I have a feeling more "I have all the power and you don't" situations will arise, more and more. From criminals to legitimately elected officials, to people specifically trained and audited to hold such power by our loving and caring overlords (sarcasm).
:D
There is something magical about speeding along (probably only 6 knots, but it feels like more!), transported by nothing but wind and water. Instead of pushing our way through the world, we are sensibly using what's available to sliver our way along the desired path. Between wind and water we have a duality of countervailing forces, and can take (almost) any direction.
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
You're digging yourself deeper.
You think it's newsworthy if applied to some ordinary Joe or Jane? Really? So why aren't you ringing up the papers demanding more coverage? There's an article every year or two about some TSA agent being arrested after laptops etc mysteriously disappeared after being confiscated, but for some reason the stories associated with each theft never get reported at the time.
Wonder why? Oh, I know, because this stuff doesn't matter if it's happening to you or me. Even if it's our livelihoods.
Why bring up the wealth? Because that's why we're getting the story. And we're not getting a newsworthy story about widespread corruption or abuse of power or anything like that, but "Zillionaire upset after pissed off govt official holds imported luxury goods awaiting paperwork. Hear his spin on it at 11"
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
If you don't think the definition of people has changed in the last 220+ years of the Constitution, you should go back to history class. Just because we've used the amendment process most times to expand individual rights (and the definition of which people gets those rights) doesn't mean that's the only way it can be used.
I work many hours to get paid what I do.
I spend even more hours trying to build my own business.
That is what will get me my boat if I do well and have a bit o luck.
Nothing to do with pedantry I see there.... You mentioned slavery, which wasn't what the war of independence was about. It looked like you'd got confused.
The US abolished slavery decades after most of the world, including such forward thinking countries as South Africa. That's not something to be proud of.
Arrington suggested to the agent that they correct the error. She responded by seizing the boat.
sounds like one side of the story to me. as with most things, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
If they had the authority to fill out the paperwork, they damned well better have the authority to amend it when they make a clericial mistake!
you didn't sign the paperwork. I bet she would have done an about-face and detained you instead of the boat.
Howdy howdy howdy
If we are to believe Slashdot groupthink, rich people control the government, so they're one and the same.
Even if the case is dismissed, you lost.
Oh so woefully true.
Howdy howdy howdy
Rich != member_of_power_elite;
Maybe they only put the assholes at the border so the rest of the population seems really nice by comparison?
Ie., just another version of "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about."
This is false. As an example (sorry I can't cite), the ATF sent a package containing a firearm component which can be used to manufacture a machine gun to someone they didn't like. When he signed for the package before learning what was inside, they arrested and charged him with some felony firearm law violation.
The fact of the matter is, if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have a great deal to worry about. If you are law abiding, you are much more likely to victimized by the government today than by criminals.
We have got to hunt these people down and kill them all leaving no room unturned and none of them alive or you are as under hitlerism if they can take your property without a judges order. It is not an America I want to live in. Fight now or die later.
I can't find that "reasoning" anywhere in the post above, just a message delivered about current problems in a system. You appear to be building a strawman from something in your own head and arguing with that. While it's OK for a cocaine addled ex-DJ to do such shit on Fox the objective there is to get paid for entertainment and not a serious attempt at communication.
congrats. I snorted out my milk on this one.
Not to mention that signing that would effectively be perjury, which could very well come bite him later when a DIFFERENT bureaucrat looks over the papers.
yes the gov is out to get any little tiny thing they can get.. the DHS is a perfect example of this tenfold.
I've rounded numbers on my 1040 and NEVER got an audit.. I don't believe your story on iota... Another liberal who constantly needs to pat the gov on the back and tries to justify it's own existence.
After being selected as a juror and then being given instructions by the judge about what things mean and then you listen to the, for law, for order, and for the nation, prosecutor, and you see him in his suit day after day, you will agree that anything that was done was for the best and that no wrong-doing occurred.
You're an idiot.
Ah yes, you've now proven your intellectual inferiority. Please try again when you can learn to hold a civil conversation.
Just another day in Paradise
Since when is it legal to confiscate the property of jerks?
99% of the time these issue arise from officers attempting to directly punish uncooperative citizens, not investigate suspicous ones.
Not to be an Internet Tough Guy,
Yet that's exactly what you are. More like you'd piss your pants if somebody pulled a gun on you. Either that or you'd deserve the Darwin Award when you cursed at the guy with the gun and kept walking toward him.
You make a decent point, but for some reason I don't think many poor people get their boats seized by customs.
That was not my point.
http://www.rootstrikers.org/
Those darn guns. I hate it when they jump up of their own accord, aim, and fire at unarmed people.
Uh, no.
Colorado's proposed legislation is limiting magazines to 15 for rifles, 8 for shotguns. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/us/gun-control-laws-clear-initial-hurdle-in-colorado.html?_r=0 Maybe it's you who needs to stop misrepresenting?
I'm referring to the proposed federal legislation. The various references to the President in this thread should have given you a clue.
It was exactly correct from the manufacturer. The manufacturer's information listed the price in CAD. The DHS filled out the form for him to sign which had the manufacturer's stated CAD price copied as the USD purchase price.
Having crossed a few borders in my life... There are assholes everywhere, just like there are nice and friendly people everywhere.The last few years coming back into the US has been fairly easy, in fact most border crossings have been nice. Security lines (and NOT just TSA) is another story.
It looked like you'd got confused.
I think if you go re-read OP, you'll find he was actually pointing out that the country was created by those with the courage of their convictions to execute the slaves that wanted to be free.
cause she was a B? or a C?
NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER GIVE UP! "No limitations, no boundaries, there is no reason for them."
It would have been so simple to strike out $US and replace it with $Cdn...and initial it...
I'm thinking we might have two attitude problems going on here...
but most of the boats were bought used for $10,000 to $100,000. These folks are just everyday folks.
No, I think you need to see more of society. Everyday folks are fortunate to have $100 in their pocket at the end of the month after paying bills.
Marx let three of his children starve (while he himself enjoyed a luxurious lifestyle) and drove two more into suicide. In his letters to Engels he expresses hatred for pretty much every ethnic group he has ever known and was described be everybody who knew him as posessing a deep hatred for all humans.
I guess it is not an accident that the left has chosen him as their moral guide.
The example you gave regarding the speeding ticket is actually the mathematical and ethical opposite of the situation described in TFA. I have no idea how much the boat cost, but for the sake of example let's just say he spent USD $200K on it. At today's exchange rate, USD $200,000 = CAD $204,100. Does the difference between those numbers seem unimportant to you? I'm pretty sure autism doesn't have much to do with a commonplace observation that pretty much boils down to "one of these things is not like the other."
You seem to be encouraging lying for the sake of convenience. I imagine that pattern of behavior will catch up with you at some point in your life, if it hasn't already.
Write failed: Broken pipe
The second amendment is a collective, not an individual right. Insurrectionalist theory is about as recent and manufactured as the 1950s introduction of "in god we trust" as justification for saying "this has always been a christian nation."
It's a long read, but please see http://www.saf.org/lawreviews/bogus2.htm for an enlightening look on the origins and intent of the 2nd.
TL;DNR version: Southerners were afraid of the federal government using disarmament of organized anti-slave patrols as a means of abolition.
...and with the vested interest that the landed aristocracy had (and continues to have) in tarnishing his reputation, how do we know any of that wasn't a complete and utter fabrication? Regardless, it definitely serves as a strawman, since it doesn't address any of his points.
Frankly, I would've expected more from a supposed "critical-thinking fellow conservative" but then again, you distinctly come across as a privileged "European-type" conservative, as opposed to a conservative in the Jeffersonian sense...
(...the moral of the story here, I believe, is "don't bring a knife to a gunfight...") ;)
Thanks to plea bargaining, the Los Angeles County prosecutor's office has (as of about 2 years ago) a 96% conviction rate.
Do you really believe 96% of all cases were from good arrests??
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
I fucked a rabbit.
For one, you are a rich one percenter. For another, you and your friends all love President Obama, so must love his policies. What are you whining about? You got exactly what you voted for: Bush 3.0.
The value has to be exact to the dollar. That is the law. You can't approximate or guess, because if you do, another goverment flunky will find that and mindlessly follow their orders and you will end up with the IRS "confiscating" everything you own because you lied on an official document.
What I don't understand is why he didn't just make a note on the document then sign it.
Probably because this isn't fantasy land; out in the real world, you can't magically fuck with government forms and giggle like a simpering idiot after the fact.
As a professional engineer, that's exactly what I do to get moenys.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
Isn't it just a little bit strange that we have an agency dedicated to fighting terror which does little more than offer it up to visitors?
Hold on while I work up some tears.
close your parenthesis next time
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
Because I'm sure that no one would ever become more equal than others in your reality.
Okay all, the rest of the story(I was there). 1. The amount on both invoice and CBP form were in U.S dollars correctly completed on the form. 2. Just because someone has $$$ and posts something first on the web, doesn't make them true. 3. The officer in question did not act gleefully, in fact SHE called back to the office and vessel manufacturer several times to verify the stated value. 4. The officer in question vilified by this rich individual now has to endure all the grief posted here and elsewhere by Mr rich guy and explain why she followed the LEGAL document value and wouldn't cow to his brow beating. 5. Coastal Craft ended up paying for a broker to perform what should have been a personal importation and guess what The value on that entry was EXACTLY the same as on the CBP presented form. 6. Mr. Rich guy will probably post everywhere now that HE was right due to the fact that he has his boat and did not sign anything, but the fact is that the company took the high moral ground and due to ALL the false posting by Arrington, they paid for the paperwork to be processed. 7. We are all at the mercy of individuals who feel (right or wrong) that they can put out whatever they feel and get hundreds of all of you all worked up about the big bad government, fact is the is/was correct and all of us had to jump thru hoops due to arrington's posts and written falsehoods. 8. I am proud to work with this office/officer and all of you should be ashamed for vilifying her/DHS without knowing the facts.
Okay all, the rest of the story(I was there). 1. The amount on both invoice and CBP form were in U.S dollars correctly completed on the form. 2. Just because someone has $$$ and posts something first on the web, doesn't make them true. 3. The officer in question did not act gleefully, in fact SHE called back to the office and vessel manufacturer several times to verify the stated value. 4. The officer in question vilified by this rich individual now has to endure all the grief posted here and elsewhere by Mr rich guy and explain why she followed the LEGAL document value and wouldn't cow to his brow beating. 5. Coastal Craft ended up paying for a broker to perform what should have been a personal importation and guess what The value on that entry was EXACTLY the same as on the CBP presented form. 6. Mr. Rich guy will probably post everywhere now that HE was right due to the fact that he has his boat and did not sign anything, but the fact is that the company took the high moral ground and due to ALL the false posting by Arrington, they paid for the paperwork to be processed. 7. We are all at the mercy of individuals who feel (right or wrong) that they can put out whatever they feel and get hundreds of all of you all worked up about the big bad government, fact is the is/was correct and all of us had to jump thru hoops due to arrington's posts and written falsehoods. 8. I am proud to work with this office/officer and all of you should be ashamed for vilifying her/DHS without knowing the facts. 9. Most working folds have bosses and we are no exception sadly we had to answer many questions for correctly performing our sworn duties due to all the bad press put out by someone who feels entitled or above the public servant. Shame on you.
Normally I'm suspicious of articles like this where we get one side of the story about some US law enforcement agency doing something bad, but in cases of seizing assets US law enforcement has an absolutely horrendous record.
And as for your claim that he should have just signed the form another case where someone took your advice led to the DHS seizing $35,000, I sure as hell wouldn't sign anything the DHS told me to if I knew there was an error.
I stole this Sig
The numbers was Canadian dollars, but marked as USD. (ex. 100 USD is NOT the same as 100 Canadian dollars)
Did you read the whole article?
He did try to fix it, and the DHS agents acted like morons.
if he is telling the truth....somehow i bet there is more to the story. Remember this guy is so upset he was going to quit america if he could....such a sweet kind sensitive man wouldn't lie now would he? Something smells here....
yes but who gave her the invoice with the price did she make it up or was there some kind of receipt and was it in usd or cad?
you are six four and you let an old lady with a badge push you around?
if this guy is being straight up ....but is he? sounds damned convenient that she would be te one who screwed up the paperwork then seize the boat.
You are absolutely right. But take a look at the comments on Gawker. Lots of giddy comments about "the rich asshole" losing his boat. All these people so blinded by their pathetic wealth envy that they can't see they could easily be in an analogous situation regarding their own property, be it a boat or their double wide.
For the Stalin-ist USSR it was Motherland, for Nazi Germany it was Fatherland, now for modern US it s Homeland... I've always found that trend a little disturbing.
Disparity in wealth is a 'Good Thing'. I always pondered if it was the case, but Paul Graham wrote a particularly insightful essay about it. Article here.
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of cats. MEOW!!
WOW .. is this the democracy that the USA is dying to spread world wide ?!?!?!?.... where I live, I'd kill her if she do it ... and yeah I am terrorist ... sheesh what a shame !!
Nothing to do with pedantry I see there.... You mentioned slavery, which wasn't what the war of independence was about. It looked like you'd got confused.
One does not have to be in literal chains in order to be a slave.
If you can't figure out the definition of a simile without having your hand held, I cannot be of service to you.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
People are shocked that government is full of unaccountable, untouchable, corrupt, even criminal elements? Schools not teaching history anymore (I gather they are teaching something that they say "passes" as history).
And anyone point out yet that the DHS in the past year or so has bought more than 1.4 billion rounds of anti-civilian ammunition (not geneva convention legal). With that much ammo the US military could have run wars in afghanistan and iraq for decades.
You got yourself a corrupt, even criminal organization with government backing to do whatever they want with enough ammunition to kill you, your family and your associates many many times over. Anyone see a problem with this?
One does not have to be in literal chains in order to be a slave.
Exactly, and the US has consistently ignored if not perpetuated other forms of slavery where no literal chains were involved
Take off the nostalgia goggles. The US and its people were not that much nobler and freedom loving (if at all) in the good old days.
If you can't figure out the definition of a simile without having your hand held, I cannot be of service to you.
I think the GP is more about pointing out how bad your simile is.
I'd be satisfied if they would just reinstate the Congressional Cane Fights.
Do that, then make C-SPAN pay-per-view, and we can say buh-bye to the debt crisis!
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
I think the GP is more about pointing out how bad your simile is.
Then he (and you) should take an English class - as far as simile's go, that one (die standing free > live kneeling enslaved) is time-tested.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
so our wonderful overlords at the Justice Department could threaten his ass with 5 years in PMITA prison for violating 18 USC 1001 (false statements to the government). Oh, yeah, he'd also be a felon, lose his right to vote and his right to own or bear arms and his right to serve on a jury (ok, he might not mind losing that one) and have his future career prospects drastically diminished because of his status as a convicted felon. However, he may still have a bright future as a politician.
in charge of healthcare.
Why the hell do the border officials even carry pistols? It's not like they are actually going to shoot anyone anyways, or are they allowed to kill someone who just walks past the security? If you want to get to the US illegally it shouldn't be too hard, thousands(tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands?) do so every year.
I'm told Mexican mothers work equally well.
Founder & COO, Hayai India (hayai.in) / USA (hayaibroadband.com)
There's not reason to let it fade into oblivion without making a lot of noise. We can't make it too easy for the bastards.
If you are difficult to oppress, do you get a higher quality dictator?
http://marriedmansexlife.com/
> The exact value on the paperwork doesn't matter, but the paperwork being filled out and signed does matter.
You clicked the button that said you had read the EULA, therefore you have no grounds.... Signing a document is a statement.
> With an acknowledgement of the error and an attempt to correct it, ...
The attempt to correct was one sided.
> Using fighting tactics looking for an easy way to "win" is a pretty good indicator that you have something else you're hiding... that's when you'll get more investigations.
You're right, of course. That's why the issue is worth public scrutiny. Or are you claiming that the agent was not (perhaps: also) using fighting tactics?