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North Korea Threatens US With Preemptive Nuclear Strike
jppiiroinen writes "North Korea threatened the United States on Thursday with a preemptive nuclear strike, raising the level of rhetoric while the U.N. Security Council considers new sanctions against the reclusive country."
You dead, yankee scum!
How long will it take before an 'unfortunate accident' at one of these nuclear sites makes an end to their aspirations?
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
The president should make an address and announce the following message for Kim jong Un "Come at me bro".
They said that if the US is about to start a nuclear war they reserve the right to make a pre-emptive strike, just like all nuclear armed countries do. There is no threat of action, merely a warning to the US that NK will defend itself.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Whelp, guess obama and Jong Un aren't gonna have that lovely conversation about basketball I was oh-so waiting for. /sarcasm
The statement said North Korea "strongly warns the U.N. Security Council not to make another big blunder like the one in the past when it earned the inveterate grudge of the Korean nation by acting as a war servant for the U.S. in 1950."
It's their standard MO and I hope it doesn't affect the UN's resolution. Another quote from North Korea:
"Since the United States is about to ignite a nuclear war, we will be exercising our right to a preemptive nuclear attack against the headquarters of the aggressor in order to protect our supreme interest," said the statement carried by the official KCNA news agency.
More details from reuters on what the new sanctions mean as well as South Korea's push back.
...
And I'm pretty much done with any Slashdot discussion on this since the apologists and "MAD is good" folks have been mighty thick on these past few news stories. We have entered into the era of "Hey everybody, we have nuclear weapons now do what we say or we will nuke you!" Like a teenage gang member who found his first handgun
My work here is dung.
Seroiuslly. Don't respond, don't even acknowledge they are talking. Absolutely ignore anything everything they say.
It's like a child having a fit. If you ignore them long enough, they get tired and shut up.
In other news, Dennis Rodman is quoted saying "You're no longer awesome, bro"
... after somebody allowed Dennis Rodman to go to North Korea.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
Dear Glorious Whatever,
Look, little fella, I know you have something to prove and all, but really hope you didn't buy into your father's bullshit. Believe it or not the U.S. has absolutely no interest in restarting the Korean War. Frankly, we're kind of warred out right now. So please stick to playing basketball with Dennis Rodman and leave us out of your grandstanding and dick waving. We've already got enough of that at home.
We'll be happy to keep sending you D-list celebrities if you'll just STFU.
Yours truly,
The American People
P.S. I would point out the obvious fact that the U.S. will bomb your country back to the stone age if you try to attack anyone with nukes. But, looking at a satellite photo of the Korean peninsula at night, I'm not sure that would amount to much of a threat.
Your political party doesn't care about your rights and only represents corporate interests.
when you send Dennis Rodman as your CIA agent/ambassador to NK.
Does this sound like nothing but an attempt to get someone else to "throw the first punch so [North Korea] have an excuse"?
Let's convince Japan, South Korea and Taiwan to arm themselves with nuclear weapons. Nothing says regional stability like everyone having nuclear weapons.
Rodmannnnnnnnn!!!!!!
[ yelled in my best JT Kirk, "Khan!!!!" impersonation ]
"Nuclear launch detected!" be followed by: "Battle-cruiser operational"?
For over 50 years the propaganda war machine has been putting out highly inflamed offensive speech declaring war on various entities, so really at this point until they actually fire that first missile, I wouldn't worry about it. And when they do actually fire that missile, they will be wiped off the map.
We went to iraq on a much looser pretext.
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
That would be suicide for NK, I'm sure the US would love for them to do that. No more troublesome and annoying diplomatic relations, just a peaceful, smoking, radioactive crater, legitimately created in self-defense.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I think I heard that destroying these is against International treaties because it affects non-combatants. You are not supposed to target them directly.
...is if they're truly feeling suicidal or not.
If you think that they could get through anything like that alive you're smoking something.
It's not only the US or NATO that would strike either, it would be Russia and their buddies in China as well. There would be nothing left.
Go read Dune. When one family uses "atomics" then everyone else combines and destroys them.
Oh: Herro, Hans!
I can't fathom the stupidity here.. i'd like to understand the psychology behind North Korea's thoughts/statements.
They said that if the US is about to start a nuclear war they reserve the right to make a pre-emptive strike, just like all nuclear armed countries do. There is no threat of action, merely a warning to the US that NK will defend itself.
Actually no, that's not correct at all. Read eldavojohn's post below with the full quotes on the situation. You'd have to be pretty thick to honestly interpret it the way you are after reading those. It's quite clear what NK is really saying and what they mean, it's the same as always.
The've got to be kidding! hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
We'll be seeing that strike in ten years...thanks for the advanced warning...
If the US decided right now to nuke NK the bombs would be falling within the hour. Everybody knows that. And NK surely knows that if they somehow lobbed one of their weapons at us the response would be, well...excessive.
All this over sanctions. NK would rather try to make bombs and force the world to feed its citizens than figure out agriculture.
Crazy. North Korea is fascinating.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Thanks for nothing, Rodman.
I would have thought that even the looniest dictator would think twice before threatening "weapons of mas destruction", "a mother of all battles", and so on.
It's not always the lil guys...Khadafy was six ft tall before he was six ft under and the running joke in the rest of the World during the American's lengthy search for Bin Laden was, "How can they not find a two meter tall Arab in Pakistan?" There are many ways to develop a special needs complex, starting at birth... and continuing, for some damaged souls, right up till the day they miss that hug and take that AK to show and tell.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
You wouldn't spank a babby with an axe.
I think this is just more Short Man Complex playing out. Haven't North Koreans ever heard of elevator shoes?
Seems the FUD on oil and the Iraq war has proven to be quite sticky. Fact is, there are many other oil-rich countries that would have been a hell of a lot easier and convenient to take over than Iraq. Seeing as how the accusation is that the U.S. fabricated a case, it would have been just as easy to fabricate a case against any of them. If I had to plan such a thing, Venezuela would be the first to come to mind, but it's not the only one I would consider.
The war in Iraq was about one thing; Iran. Stabilizing the Middle East by reducing the amount of megalomaniacs by one. By calling Saddam's bluff (which was aimed more at Iran than the U.S.) the coalition slowed down a Middle-East arms race that was just getting started, but was going to speed up quickly once Iraq rebuilt its military capacity. One of the stated goals of the first Gulf War was to reduce their military capability for 10 years. Did the U.S. go about it the right time? Not optimal, but necessary, since it had been roughly 10 years since the first Gulf War. Did the U.S. go about it the right way? Definitely not. Rumsfeld screwed up the war strategy big time, starting with using half the troops that would have been needed for securing the borders. Nation-building and long-term occupation? No thanks; trying to quit.
North Korea presents a decent enough military threat overall, only because they've starved their people in order to pay for their military capability and have thoroughly indoctrinated them into fighting to the death to stay enslaved, but their tension with Japan and South Korea still does not amount to megalomaniac A vs megalomaniac B.
"Now, I doubt any of you would prefer a rolled up newspaper as a weapon against a dictator or a criminal intruder."
If you really want to get technical about things, the Korean War never ended. There's a longstanding cease-fire in place (one which North Korea seems poised to abandon), but peace was never actually declared.
Frankly, I think it's time to give China a little incentive to look the other way for a few months. No "buffer zone" could possibly be worth the trouble North Korea is bringing to their doorstep.
do not underestimate the motivation, determination and creativity of those who intend you harm
false alarmism is a well understood concept here on slashdot
unfortunately, false complacency, equally dangerous, is not
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Oh, you mean 70 years ago, five years before North Korea started the Korean War?
Please tell the Germans they'd better announce the right for pre-emptive strikes on France in case that pesky Napoleon comes over the border again.
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
If you want the US to take you seriously you have say, "... exercise our right to a pre-emptive nuclear strike and dig up Marilyn Monroe".
Would you have preferred someone else had them first?
by having the UN writer a very stern letter! Or even better, broadcasting this over North Korea's TV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaKX9YYHiQ
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
One aggressive country with a huge military and a penchant for preemptive strikes is quite enough to make the world a scary place. And I'm not talking about NK...
Isreal?
Given the mindset of slashdot, odds are he would've preferred Stalin had them first.
Why would I go to a right-wing, pro-Fascist science fiction novel full of grand guignol guff for advice on military policy?
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
WHOOOOSH!!!!1
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Given the CIA's dark history why can't it or the currently evil Chinese intelligence agencies do an assassination of the NK leadership? The US certainly has the most advanced technology at its disposal that is capable of identifying where he is and strike remotely. It looks to me like many important people outside of NK want him there. Refugees? Please. That problem can be tackled with relatively small amount of financial resources. It's not like that population is not already starving. Somebody please explain this to me.
Yawn, this was much more exciting and credibly frightening with it was the USSR, and it was vodka swilling Russians beating on the tables at the UN, who by the way, had the capabilities to sprinkle nukes all over every square inch of the country. Kissinger was right, it's these little fuckers who are the problem now.
Take the Red Pill.
If anything this serious happened. The child-leader is throughing a tantrum again.
One thing for sure, Best Korea excels at publicity. At this point Mr. Kim's going to get the Saddam Hussein drone award delivered to his doorstep sometime soon.
NK threatened this about a decade ago when we were getting ready to invade Iraq for no plausible reason, but apparently no one gave a shit. No one's going to give a shit this time either since NK still doesn't have a credible delivery system. People will suddenly start giving a shit by the time they DO have one.
Hey North Korea, get exploded.
But really, if they try anything, CHINA of all places would be the one to act.
China aren't about to stand around while the next door neighbour starts war with other huge countries.
North Korea will turn to dust and it would have all been for nothing.
North Korea don't play Starcraft, so they have no clue about strategy at all. They need additional nukes.
If you read through all the Headlines about NK, it almost seems as if they want to be attacked; It's like they are screaming "Put us out of our misery!". It makes for good entertainment on the News, I mean that's what news is now in the US, just entertainment. Of course it could be just a cry for help, or maybe we will push them to the point where they actually do attack the DMZ and throw the world into some kind of World War with the Chinese siding with NK.
I hate to sound like a Warmonger, but maybe the world does need a massive global war to kick us out of the fantasy world we've been living in for several decades. Show people that iPads and a new PS4 aren't important things in Life. One nice big reboot.
They tend to do this when they are about to ask for more aid. I wonder what they want this time?
I agree with you on the fact if it was only about oil, there are better pickings. However, oil had to be part of the equation, even it was just a nice cherry on top.
However, I am not sure about your notion that somehow taking Saddam out makes the US safer. Iran and Iraq are old enemies. It always seemed to me that keeping them pointed at each other was smart. However, claiming that there was an arms race that was just getting started seems odd. The arms race between those two nations has been a long standing "normal" in the Middle East. Do you have a reference for that? I would be interested in reading it.
Your analysis of NK is spot in, IMO. Thanks for the well reasoned post.
MAD is when two comparable nuclear powers are prepared to destroy each other. the few fission firecrackers, not missile deployable, of NK can not destroy even one major city of the USA. The U.S. arsenal of thousands of weapons can be delivered to any inhabitable part of the earth
Why do you think China's building all those ghost cities? Simple speculation run amok? pshaw!
If the DPRK's leadership would let the peasants go, China could probably accommodate them in the spare guestroom while they invest in remodeling NK on a China model. Once they're all safely chained to their workbenches building eyephones and have enough to eat, Bob's your uncle.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Is this propaganda or did they really say that?
Nope. It was about restarting the Sunni v Sheit war. If we played it right, Iraq/Iran will be back on inside the decade.
Also possibly giving the Kurds a homeland. Just to fuck with the rest of the Arabs, Turks and Persians. Give them someone but the Jews to hate.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
look above. Everyone leaves the "he tried to kill my Daddy" element out of the equation when talking about Bush's decision making.
I predict a glowing future for North Korea.
I thought sending Dennis Rodman to N. Korea was going to solve all these problems?
Maybe Michael Jordan can be a more effective diplomat than NBA owner?
MAD is of no relevance when one side has no means to destroy the other, or not even destroy a major city of the other. You're using a term of strategic warfare that doesn't apply since one side has no strategic weapons
UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The U.N. Security Council has voted unanimously for tough new sanctions to punish North Korea for its latest nuclear test, a move that sparked a furious Pyongyang to threaten a nuclear strike against the United States.
The vote Thursday by the U.N.'s most powerful body on a resolution drafted by North Korea's closest ally, China, and the United States sends a powerful message to North Korea that the international community condemns its ballistic missile and nuclear tests — and its repeated violation of Security Council resolutions.
The new sanctions are aimed at making it more difficult for North Korea to finance and obtain material for its weapons programs.
I apologize for making it sound like the United States was the sole proposer of the new resolution -- I actually got that vibe from the DPRK press releases. I didn't know until I read this that China (at least is reported to have) co-authored them with the US.
My work here is dung.
I'd ask that they "put a muzzle" on their neighbor, or else. It's that simple. It's that, or "nuclear teardrops" would fall on said neighbor, only harming China itself (which is NOT the goal, but when words like that are uttered, it's the ONLY sound logical alternative to turning North Korea into a fused bowl of green glass)...
* Were I our diplomats/politicians, I'd ask 1 simple question of China:
"Were I to make such a threat to you, you would take it seriously, right? Well, your neighbors just have to myself, & we don't want trouble with you, but if your neighbor keeps it up, I just HAVE to take care of it, since nobody else will... that will draw you into this, and I am SURE you don't want that, & neither do we, but we don't HAVE ANY OUTS here, other than asking YOU help handle it!"
The Chinese, while crafty, aren't insane... & it takes an INSANE MIND to resort to nukes - everyone, AND I MEAN EVERYONE, "takes a beating" on those (they're like the smell of shit in a room, it goes EVERYWHERE, in radiation poisonings via the wind, & water...).
Let's face it - China IS the "top dog" on her end of the planet... she should take responsibility for it, especially with nutcases as THEIR fellow Asian neighboring nations, in trying to start something there really is no CLEAN finish to... never really is, for anyone, in fights of ANY kind.
I've listened to China's diplomats on the tube before. They are NOT STUPID (far, Far, FAR from it - massively intelligent was the impression I got in fact)!
Fact is - I am certain they realize that MOST WARS are started by some little nation, that draws their "big brothers" into it, like it or not. Sometimes though, as that "big brother" you have to SILENCE your little brother who started shit up that will end badly for EVERYONE...
I am personally CERTAIN the Chinese are saying "Man, we have a maniac for a neighbor... time to do SOMETHING about it, before they draw us into something we'd have NO CHOICE on ourselves!"
I know I would, before things get way, Way, WAY outta control... you'd have to, if you had ANY sense of civic responsibility & nobody else is willing to help (just for the sake of co-existence).
APK
P.S.=> I can't BELIEVE the Koreans are that stupid! I mean, hey - They're fools for making such threats (if indeed, they were STUPID enough to utter them) - on a personal level, it'd be like threatening the MOST dangerous man alive with a knife... just dead-up DUMB (mainly since he would most likely eat you alive in a street-fight, blade on your side, or not - especially when he has guns, outgunning the HELL out of you! Just "bad business"...).
To myself?
Well... Nations remind me of guys in a tavern - there's always a "top dog" & some "little dog" that "gets his gander up" *thinking* he can challenge for top-spot! It makes sense - sociology is the "psychology of societies" & societies are compositions of the parts making the whole via the sum of its parts (individuals)... & there are amazing parallels here, that only make sense when you think about them. Thus, you deal with these problems the SAME WAY you would on an individual level, as noted above, via the barroom analogy I just made.
That is, until "little dog" challenger finds teeth busted out from the trying of it... AND, dragged his brother into it, without any consideration of the PAIN it would cause him also! It's utterly inconsiderate, to bring sorrow onto others is why I state this, above ALL else. Want trouble? She's easy to find, just like a hooker on a corner... but, handle it, yourself!
That's when HIS (little dog's) pals SHOULD say "Look, shithead - you're going to get ME trapped in the mix of this blender of lunacy WITH YOU - don't, or I will shut you down, first! Now, want to 'play smart' with me on this? You'll find out JUST how not smart, you are, fast"...
... apk
"How many children do you know bear a racial hatred for Western culture that is bred and drilled into them, or are armed with nuclear warheads?"
I find I cannot care even the slightest amount
"It's exactly that arrogance that they are standing up against"
Again, its hard to get worked up about it. If they were to do something to seriously threaten the country (like attacking the US homeland), we'll simply kill all of them and render their land unfit for human life for generations.
Ruling out the ice caps maelting, meteors becoming crashed into us, the ozone leaving and the sun exploding, we are definitely going to blow ourselves up. Hokay!
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
Quite honestly, it doesn't matter. but lets take a look at history. The cold war was a fine example. You sided with the US or you sided with the USSR. You wanna side with US, you prosper, you side with the USSR, you crumble. One side you got all you want, the other side you get toilet paper on every third wednesday. China sided with the USSR until they crumbled, now they are seeing prosperity. Even Russia is friendly to the US and improving economically. As far as North Korea, sure, they could probably unleash some destruction. They launch something, its tracked once it leaves the ground. Its a long flight from there to the west coast and even further to the east. about the best they can hope for is to hit something local, but that wouldn't be a strike against our capital now would it?
Only a suicidal country would openly use nuclear weapons against a United States controlled land. They would have to be sneaky and frame someone else.
At the turn of the century, the USA invaded Iran on the mere *allegation* that they had nuclear weapons.
Just sayin'.
They have delivery vehicles: http://www.odin.tc/news/read.asp?articleID=1323
You kids don't remember the 1950s, when accuracy didn't matter and 'clean bomb' wasn't a criterion.
Sink it in the harbor and set it off -- maximum contamination -- would be typical new-guys-with-bomb thinking.
Read Philip Wylie, he understood.
Assuming that were the case, it would have been nice if the the administration used that reasoning to justify the war instead of the lies they did.
Happy people make bad consumers.
It seems North Korea is keeping "all options on the table" then.
You're probably right; oil was probably a cherry on top.
Also right on Iran and Iraq being old enemies, and yes, I'd much prefer to keep them aimed at each other, that is until the whole ME explodes on account of those two. That's why I would see the U.S. weighing the long-term benefits of removing one wildcard from the equation.
The arms race "starting" is more in the context of Iraq reconstituting itself militarily after the first Gulf War, which was followed by a relative lull in their military spending, not in the absolute timescale. More of a natural extension of their long-term opposition, progressing past Iraq's use of chemical warfare of the Iran-Iraq war. That's why Saddam was stalling inspectors and making it seem like they had more to hide. This same arms race is what many people are fearing now between Iran and Egypt and Saudi Arabia and Turkey.
http://books.google.com/books?id=qFCkQRQApSwC&pg=PA41#v=onepage&q&f=false
"Now, I doubt any of you would prefer a rolled up newspaper as a weapon against a dictator or a criminal intruder."
...please try to fire upon the areas with the densest population of politicians and/or lawyers.
I disagree with your theory, but there's something about it I like.
"Now, I doubt any of you would prefer a rolled up newspaper as a weapon against a dictator or a criminal intruder."
If the reason was not oil, then I expect the allied soldiers who have been sent to Iraq to be told "keep digging, we haven't found those weapons of mass destruction yet, and you're not going home until we do".
Well, either that or Bush being sent to the chair for starting a war on a lie.
I agree to a degree. I always facepalmed every time I saw the clumsy way in which the case was presented to the people. But in the context of calling a bluff I would think it's necessary to pretend to accept the opponent's premise.
"Now, I doubt any of you would prefer a rolled up newspaper as a weapon against a dictator or a criminal intruder."
I'm almost not joking when I say we could be staring at a "Mouse That Roared" real world scenario. They are dead broke and can't feed their people. Their infrastructure is collapsing as are many of their newer buildings that were cheaply constructed. There is no chance of them financially turning the country around within a generation and they are facing a complete collapse within a generation or less no matter what. They could be staring at the 60 billion we just blew rebuidling Iraq and we have only started there. It may be worth loosing a few hundred thousand lives for a 60+ billion dollar payday. If they loose a city or two we'll rebuild them and since around 20 billion went missing in Iraq between the war and the rebuild there will be lots of money to steal. Say they launch a nuke that blows up half way across the Pacific and we retaliate wiping out a city. They surrender conditionally, their leaders get some protections essentially, and they plead dire hardship due to the "war". We start shipping in food and building materials and Little Kim Jr retires to EuroDisney with a few billion in his pocket and is forced to live in exile. The remaining leaders line their pockets and we update all their factories and bring the rest of the country into the 20th century. Guarantees of not bringing Little Kim Jr to trial is the iffy potential deal breaker but the rest of the scenario sounds a lot like what happened in Iraq although Iraq was already a wealthy country. Kim could just hop the border to China who would likely set him up in a palace with what money he could steal and he could cut a deal with the remaining crooks to send him a cut of what they steal in exchange for arranging exits to China if the need arose.
We will need to wait until they USE one. Preferably a successful attack.
This administration will certainly try to engineer one to boost their popularity and approval ratings. It is one step closer to strongman Obama's coronation.
New Economic Perspectives
Hosts have nothing to do with this. Try be on topic here. It's serious in this topic as well, or don't you fear being roasted alive OR being slowly poisoned to death (as well as those you love, IF any exist, which I strongly doubt with online slime trolls such as yourself in fact)...
* :)
APK
P.S.=> I honestly don't understand *WHY* you keep this insanity up, considering you've been TOLD to stop it, and get professional psychiatric help from your /. peers here 3x yesterday alone (where you listed doing it literally 76 times before) also in your insane mutterings:
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http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3521797&cid=43096277
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3522191&cid=43096733
http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3521669&cid=43094855
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Now, "the infamous they" say this oft-quoted saying:
"1 definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes over and over expecting different results"
You clearly exemplify it. I must have really, Really, REALLY "injured your 'geek pride'" shutting you down on custom hosts files benefits to end users in added speed, security, & reliability (as well as anonymity to an extent also) online.
Especially since you're unable to disprove points I put up about hosts files listed here -> http://www.start64.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=5851:apk-hosts-file-engine-64bit-version&Itemid=74
Fact is - I *might* actually even WELCOME a VALID attempt @ disproving the points in favor of custom hosts file usage listed there (16 points) - won't happen, many have tried over time (on this site & a few others, only to FAIL dismally each & every single time they did, which I felt was utterly hilarious, + exposed their "motivations" as well in the same stroke - bonus).
However, as usual? Your continued "FAILS"'d only make me stronger for it, as usual... lol!
(However - it's obvious you've tried & failed @ it, hence your reprehensible b.s. spawned from your "wounded" pride & the resultant "geek angst" you feel @ your failure to do so meeting my challenge above!)
Especially with your nigh constant stalking ac posts of myself after my posts (or not), but... if you wish to look the fool, fine. That's purely up to you!
... apk
time for me to practice the Duck and Cover routine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_and_cover
yes, I'm showing my age. lol
must be ronery.... so ronery.
The resolution specifies some luxury items North Korea's elite is not allowed to import, such as yachts, racing cars, luxury automobiles and certain types of jewelry. This is intended to close a loophole that had allowed countries to decide for themselves what constitutes a luxury good. "These sanctions will bite and bite hard," said Rice.
Ah! Humor! -Mork
A pox on web designers who feel that window.innerWidth == screen.availWidth
A Scandinavian country should invade and conquer North Korea. Then we can call it Norse Korea.
Because we can't get any operatives inside the DPRK. The people that are starving don't get anywhere close to the leaders. The people that protect the leaders are well fed and cared for.
Besides, there is the patriotism factor. We (USA) re-elected Geo. Bush even though most people thought he was an idiot. But he was our idiot. And during a time of war, its better to close ranks and stand behind the fearless leader. That's why crappy leaders like war (here and in NK).
Have gnu, will travel.
And it wouldn't be the first time in the past 15 years. (Or the second or even the third.)
didn't see the movie, but in the book, they won.
If I wanted to get technical about things, I would suggest that technical people take back the word "technical" from the lawyers. Then we could tell things like they really are: that the war ended decades ago when people (mostly) stopped shooting at each other (and no, an isolated axe murder doesn't count), regardless of whatever some lawyer says after looking for signatures on a page.
Saying we've remained at war with NK is pretty much the same as saying we weren't at war with Iraq. Papers, signatures and legislative resolutions -- or their lack thereof -- don't serve as strong evidence of war; bullets, bombs, and their associated death tolls do.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
I think at this has nothing to do with Kim Jong Un but with a mad military machine running on autopilot.
The wheels within the machine have no chance to survive but by producing even more hawkish and outlandish threats.
There's no way out because there is nobody to talk to. Kim Jong Un is just stuck as the Master-Puppet, however there is nobody behind the curtain but a headless chicken.
I guess that even the Chinese do not have much of an influence because if they build up pressure DRKs only possible reactions are more outlandish.
Yes, via Skype so that North Korea has to use a proprietary phone application to receive the call. Since they can't security-audit the source, the NSA will end up pnwing the country's central computer. Hand the computer off to the CIA, who will then modify the payroll software to issue each soldier a voucher for an extra pound of rice every week, and the government will go bankrupt. The unpaid soldiers riot, overthrow the government, and checkmate.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
i say we put all the north koreans in the states, in the spot they are going to nuke....start thier own internal family war...if life was only as simple as an eye for an eye,do onto others as u wish them to u....there would b a kurfluffle...but then there would be PEACE! ......from canada\grandson of one of the 200,000 canadians that won the world in the first place......
If he's insane, maybe that's what's going on. Suicide by cop on a global scale.
I've seen many documentaries on North Korea, especially the Vice guide docs which are awesome.
But the entire country of North Korea lives like a Cult. Kim Jung- is just like a "Jim Jones" of Jonestown, he pretends he's some supernatural spiritual leader/god/messenger
the people worship their "dear leader" and even make homage and pilgrimages to the "supposed" birthplaces of Kim Il-sung / Kim Jong-il / Kim Jong-un. Each father passed down this "how the cult works" to the son, and the culture is so brainwashed in this cult they agree and believe everything.
There are rare interviews with some people who believe the leader has super powers, and that they actually believe that they aren't in a famine, they may not having nothing to eat by mouth, but they swear with teary eyes that their leader provides sustenance through the air and sun to sustain the people until food arrives.
I mean these people are batshit insane, the entire country is batshit insane all part of this cult. It's a hardcore religious cult "100 times" more fervent and hardcore than Jonestown ever would be.
Eventually this "dear leader" will realize with all the sanctions his country will die off and people will die of starvation and he may likely be assassinated under growing paranoia. So what happened when Jim Jones paranoia reached epic levels? well out came the Flavor-Aid and Cyanide.
I really believe the same thing will happen with North Korea, except it won't be Flavor-Aid and Cyanide...
it will be suicide by nuke, the leader's missile may not reach America but he can reach Japan or China or possibly the American coast if lucky. And he will launch his nukes and the entire countries people are ready to die already.
watch interviews they have a prophecy of nuclear war already, that a blinding flash will carry them into heaven with their dead leader to watch over them for eternity. Almost taking the story of Christ and applying it to the countries leader.
So the people want to be vaporized they are so brainwashed that it's part of their religion. So as a final suicidal act, I could very well see North Korea launching some weak nuke over to some country then getting rained on by hundreds of tactical nukes laying waste to everything left of North Korea which in the people's eyes fulfills their prophecy which in their minds North Korea will win all wars!
thats how their religion and cult of personality is setup, so that even if they lose, in the country's dogma they ultimately win cause if wiped out they spend eternity with their leader.
it's a really fucked up place and cult.
if you have never seen it watch this documentary, it was mind blowing how the entire country is brainwashed and the entire country is a cult that works just like Jonestown
Part 1 of 3 - http://youtu.be/24R8JObNNQ4
Part 2 of 3 - http://youtu.be/xw46Ll-Zy4s
Part 3 of 3 - http://youtu.be/3HJj85K_7MQ
Crazy documentary, and I never thought an entire country could be in on the cult so hardcore.
Fact is, there are many other oil-rich countries that would have been a hell of a lot easier and convenient to take over than Iraq. Seeing as how the accusation is that the U.S. fabricated a case, it would have been just as easy to fabricate a case against any of them. If I had to plan such a thing, Venezuela would be the first to come to mind, but it's not the only one I would consider.
The USA didn't invade Iraq to take its oil; it invaded because they refused to pay tribute for that oil. Soon after the invasion, Iraq dropped the EURcrude exchange and returned to USDcrude exchange. Right now there's only one country that dares to try the same thing - Iran, and the USA is on the brink of war with them already. For all its rhetoric, Venezuela is still exchanging oil for USD and thus paying tribute to the USA.
Our nominal allies (Saudi, Kuwait, Turkey, Egypt, UAE etc) wouldn't support us if we said what were really after.
I know you disagree with my assessment upthread. One thing is for sure. We can't say our real motivations on CNN.
I think we're just pushing the 'Arab world' to do what it has always done. Fight their neighbors. Simultaneously we present their children with an attractive fantasy in the form of MTV middle east and infect their women with feminism. They're fucked in 50 years, tops.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
If we could come to an agreement for China to stay out of it, it seems like NK is a bigger threat than Iraq ever was, and, unlike Iraq, there are obviously pervasive human rights violations going on there with the prison camps.
Mouse That Roared
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053084/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
An ok little movie, somewhat relevant.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
US: ~28,500
SK: ~639,000 active duty
~2,900,000 reserves
~300,000 paramilitary (possibly partially overlapping with reserves)
NK: ~1,106,000 active duty
~8,200,000 reserves
So, the US has 1/30 of SK, roughly, and 1/60 of NK, not counting reserves.
The US presence is more a physical manifestation of a guarentee that the US will assist SK in event of war than a serious threat. Its along the lines of the US presence in Europe during the Cold War - not nearly enough to stop a Soviet assult, just there to reassure the people there that the United States was serious about assisting with European defense. The real plan, in both cases, is that the troops in place will delay the advance of invading forces till reinforcements can arrive.
Data summarized from multiple Wikipedia articles.
So, will the zionist owners of Slashdot make clear to their readers that preemptive nuclear strikes are the official policy of the US government and NATO?
Apparently the zionist owners of Slashdot want us to think anything THEIR enemies do is always 'bad', even when the exact same things are done by those the zionists support.
North Korea faces the genocidal might of psychopathic war-criminal Obama. If I were in their position, I'd stock up on every destructive weapon system too. Without the presence of the US war machine in South Korea, South Korea would have long ago reconciled with the North. Remember how you Yanks were told for more than three decades that East and West Germany were deadly enemies, and that uniformed Yankee goons were required to 'save' the good people in the 'democratic' West? When the super-powers butted out, East and West IMMEDIATELY reconciled.
Present day NK is thus a wholly US creation. To understand why the US needs NK, one must look toward the wider geo-political situation, especially with regards to China and Japan. Japan is the traditional dominant force, but its time as the regional bully is over. If the West leaves the region alone, Japan will make one last hopeless attempt to take over, and will be utterly destroyed. However, the USA has insisted Japan arm itself with masses of nuclear weapons (why do you think a place so vulnerable to earthquakes and tsunami is covered with nuclear facilities?). The fact that Japan is 'nuclear' gives the Yanks an excuse to stay in the region (and this was the plan).
A united Korea is an impossibly dangerous economic and political opponent of Japan. Japan cannot allow unification. So Japan tells the USA that NK must continue to exist, and the US responds "fine, and this means we must continue to occupy Japan". All just a giant game. Meanwhile, China grows at a frightening rate, and becomes the de facto boss of the region. China will very soon have the clout to tell the Yanks to get the hell out, and will resolve issues of animosity with and between other nations in the region using its 'superpower' status. China will tell the Japanese that bending the knee to another local nation is far less humiliating than bending the knee to a 'foreign devil'.
China is not going to earn a peaceful dominance, however. American military planning is for a rolling series of wars, that go nuclear in Iran, in preparation for a global conflict that will be justification for full scale war with China. Currently, American war chiefs are told by their military bosses that Russia will be on the side of the Yanks. This is the lie spun by Putin's most important ally, Blair, in order to give the US confidence to plan war against China. Our planet is truly in the hands of monsters, empowered by legions of brain-washed idiots that spend all their time thinking about reality TV, or the spread of their 'religion'.
Now maybe it's because I recently watched the absolutely horrible Red Dawn remake, but maybe we should all stay away from Spokane.
I have read an article where there was an in-depth analysis of the situation. I cannot find it at the moment, but really, it's not really as bad as we think.
First of all, only part of NK artillery is high range and can really reach Seoul. And even then most of it can only reach northern suburbs which don't have that high population density.
On top of that, it cannot be all concentrated on Seoul, they have to think about defending their border. So it will be spread out and less guns would be firing on Seoul.
Third, they cannot sustain high rate of fire for long. First is logistical problem of supplying ammo to artillery batteries, especially when facing enemy with aerial superiority. Add countebattery fire and bombing of batteries themselves. Add simple mechanical failures and attrition- the artillery wouldn't last long.
Fourth, artillery isn't THAT deadly. On top of that, after the first salvo most people will be in cover or in bomb shelters (apparently there are plenty of those in Seoul), and people will evacuate ASAP as well. So continued fire will have less effect.
In summary if I remember correctly the article estimated the number of casualties at around 1k-40k (best-worst case scenarios). Even that would be horrible, but Seoul wouldn't be consumed ir a sea of fire or flattened.
--Coder
The North Korean regime is based on several odd pillars.
One is that the Korean people are racially superior to others; their naturally superior, child-like nature is why they've been repeatedly conquered in the past. Kim is their mother-protector who gently guides them while sheltering them from the evil, corrupt world outside. They are encouraged from a young age not to think about things, merely to embrace their instincts and emotional reactions; as the naturally most superior race, their instincts are pure and right and thinking too much can lead them astray.
A corellary to that is Americans are inferior half-breeds who can't help but be aggressive war-mongers and Korean baby-killers. Not even American women and children can be spared or trusted because their nature precludes it. Korean mothers are told if they leave their kids alone with American children, the American children will attack or kill theirs because of their nature. That isn't treated as a weakness by the way... Merely a result of the natural state of Korean innocence. In fact the Chinese, Europeans, Africans, et al are all inferior races, naturally untrustworthy, and beneath contempt.
Second is that the NK population is well aware they have a reduced standard of living, but it is a sacrifice they must all make to ensure they aren't conquered by a foreign power again... Necessary to preserve the superior race of the Korean people. It's the military first policy. The information firewall has been down for some time - that's why they came up with the military first policy as a way to explain the discrepancy. Think Germany in January 1945. They've obviously lost the war, yet they fight on... Some even fanatically so. Why? Why bother showing up to build tanks? Why volunteer for suicide missions? To protect the homeland (and what else can you do anyway?)
So without an ever-present enemy threatening to massacre the Korean people in a genocidal rage, an enemy that can't be reasoned or negotiated with, the reason for the NK's existence is removed.
Remember: they have been repeatedly promising that when the US is vanquished from the penninsula, the one true master race will finally be united.
When you understand these things, NK's actions make plenty of sense.
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
Um, Iraq was about profit of selected American corporations. Some of them profited from oil, some of them from "rebuilding" Iraq, some of them from military contracts, some from manufacturing arms and equipment. It was a huge money laundering operation on scale of trillions designed to enrich selected people & corporations at the expense of US and Iraqui people. Nothing more and nothing less.
The political situation did NOT warrant intervention, the outcome of the war is NOT worth all the cost and it was obvious to anyone with half a brain that nothing good would come out of this from the start. There were no WMDs, there were no connections with Al-quaida. All the intelligence that was used to justify the war was fabricated, and that was completely obvious and is now proven beyond doubt.
--Coder
Venezuela? Really, really, really bad idea. If you thought fighting in Vietnam was bad an invasion of Venezuela would have been an order of magnitude worse. A hostile government overwhelmingly supported by the populace, well-organized and armed militias spread throughout the country, not only jungles and swamps but also mountains to deal with, and no preexisting bases to assemble and organize operations from. Not everyone in the Pentagon are raving lunatics, there's no way an invasion of Venezuela would ever have gotten past the Joint Chiefs.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
If hard drive prices were not bad enough, a nuke strike on SK or Japan would give WD\Seagate an excuse to up them even more..
Nations with more military power than North Korea: US, China, Russia, Europe, just about fucking everyone.
Nations that respond to terrorism by stabilizing the region, building infrastructure, and bringing the conquered nation into the 21st century: US, nobody else.
The course is clear. North Korea's best economic policy is to wage war against the US.
If you're trying to 'paint' an area with anti-personnel weapons, why use metalstorm? Just use a conventional cluster bomb. What added benefit would metalstorm give in that case?
I don't read AC A human right
iraq stopped trading their oil in dollars.
The war in Iraq was about Saddam threatening Bush' dad.
Can you guys please democratise that place soon? Wankers with nukes make me nervous.
Do they have a missile that can reach Las Vegas? I'd probably get some fallout here but it might be worth it.
Don't forget how young their "supreme ruler" is. From his statements and actions (actually performing tests), sounds like he is trying to assert his dominance in the eyes of his underlings. China's actions seem like they're growing weary of the spoiled child leading the DPRK. Personally, I foresee the sanctions against North Korea eventually coming to a head with his own people. If you look at Chinese history, each time there was a famine, there was a change in government. Similarly, when North Korea's army can't be supported any longer, there will almost undoubtedly be some changes.
They can always threaten to hold their breath until they turn blue. Or maybe they'll threaten to run away from home?
I wonder what kind of weirdos would step into the vacuum left by a KJ-U defeat, though.
Why allow a weirdo to step in? When Hirohito was defeated, Douglas MacArthur stepped into the vacuum, and did a first-rate job.
I would also note that the U.S. wrote Japan's post-war constitution. This has worked out extremely well for everyone. The Japanese respect their constitution, and don't seem to mind that it was written by occupiers. We didn't go with that tried-and-true approach in Iraq; their new constitution was wholly written by Iraqis. And the results are not so great (a marginal, fragile democracy).
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
China would love the excuse to outright take NK.
I would love it if they did take NK. Instead of having to worry about a relatively stable nuclear power plus a wildly unstable nuclear power, we'd only have to worry about one relatively stable nuclear power. Conditions would improve quite a bit for NK's citizens, too. (Of course, conditions for NK's citizens would improve even more if NK peacefully reunified with SK.)
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
Oh, sidestepping the fact that the U.S. rides quite the high horse when it comes to nuclear armaments? Threatening WWIII if the Soviet Union stationed missile sin Cuba, nevermind that it was in response to the U.S. putting missiles in Turkey? Threatens to bomb belligerent countries if they might get a nuclear weapon, while ignoring the fact that the second most belligerent country on the planet, Israel, has a couple hundred nukes? Violating international law in threatening Iran from developing a nuke - in the weapons program both we and Israel admit they don't actually have - to protect the Non-Proliferation Treaty, nevermind that the U.S. isn't living up to the disarmament provisions of the NPT?
This is the first time in decades that any country with nuclear weapons has seriously threatened to start a nuclear war. Iraq never had nuclear weapons. Iran probably doesn't. North Korea has demonstrated both nuclear weapons and an ICBM. Maybe they can't cross the Pacific Ocean with it, but they can certainly hit South Korea, China, or Japan.
This is the real worry in the world today. Afghanistan is irrelevant. Iran/Israel is a sideshow. North Korea has the military power to do real damage.
If you're in South Korea, I would suggest getting a long way from Seoul for a while.
Face it, there are no targets they could even reach other than here. Trying to hit Hawaii is too difficult, given how inaccurate they are, Alaska is a waste of time, and Portland is too far away, as is Spokane.
Seattle is the only place they could aim for and then claim a miss as a hit, given that there are so many prime targets within 100 miles of us.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Haven't we nuked this country into a sheet of glass?
I'm not sure that the anti-personnel mines would be all that functional when the whole terrain's been slagged by atomic weapons. Not that you'd need them for squishies trying to actually live in the terrain to be incapacitated. . .
For sheer numbers of people in questionable quality boots, that may be true, but I'd bet the iraqi army at the time had more actually usable mechanised hard than dprk does right now.
If you absolutely must please target the financial and governing bodies of our country and leave rural America alone. I only say this because as one lone man I cannot stop you. But I hope that some good may come of your bullshit.
Thanks.
elected government so much they must be nuke worthy.
You've got it backwards.
The war in Iraq was about one thing. Iran. DE-stabilizing the middle east, by removing Iran's biggest obstacle: Saddam. Ahmed Chalabi was an Iraqi expatriate with a big ax to grind. He came over to the US after almost getting caught up in the BCCI scandal arrests, and then scammed-up PNAC into invading Iraq. When he finally succeeded, he got them to try to install him as PM over there. (the people of Iraq said "NO", of course.) He was later, caught sending classified information to Iran. So basically, he was an Iranian spy, all along. Working for the Shiites and the Fascist mullahs who wanted the socialist pan-arabist Baath party out of there. And the USA fell for it like chumps. Hey, what was that sound? whoops! that was Libya crashing. Oh what was that? Syria too? Who's next? The Persians are going to be running the joint soon. And we fucking PAID to make it happen. Which is okay, because the situation before was set up by the UK, and was doomed to fail eventually anyway.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
One is that the Korean people are racially superior to others; their naturally superior, child-like nature is why they've been repeatedly conquered in the past. Kim is their mother-protector who gently guides them while sheltering them from the evil, corrupt world outside. They are encouraged from a young age not to think about things, merely to embrace their instincts and emotional reactions; as the naturally most superior race, their instincts are pure and right and thinking too much can lead them astray.
Pretty much a paraphrase from the dust jacket blurb of The Cleanest Race , by B.R. Myers.
I figure that a 20kt Air Burst at approx 5000 ft would just about take care of Pyong Yang.
1 Tomahawk, and bye bye New Boy.
Then see how long it takes for the poor suffering regular folk to crush what's left of the freaks in charge over there.
"I'm so Ronree..."
Repeat to the End.
North Korea would have no chance. They would be wipped off the face of the earth if they actually did that, and they know it. It does not benefit them in any way to do this.
What possible sactions could be made? I mean is any UN country currently doing ANY trade with NK?
I remember reading sometime ago when they were talking about Iran and sactions... if you don't do any trade with them in the first place, don't have an embasy there anymore, what is it you hope to possibly do?
570 posts and counting, with the usual /. kind of diversion into name-calling and criticizing the French... ... and nobody but me has mentioned EMP.
Guess there are no real nuclear strategists on here any more.
RME (Overmod) posting anonymous because unable to sign in.
Not insane, just mindful of the consequences.
Political repression is worse than any other country in the world. People often spy on each other for the slightest signs of disloyalty, and the government not only punishes offenders, but also punishes three generations of their families in order to purge their tainted blood.
Basically, if you screw up, they take you, your family, your relatives, etc.
Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
Time to export democracy to NK.
Casteism
Kim Jong-Un recently announced that Pyongyang will be building a large number of factories to produce the letter "L". Until then,North Korea will remain a major Word Power.
North Korea is going to suddenly launch a large payload of rhetoric against Hawaii. They can't decide if they want a Parabolic trajectory and load the rockets with Hyperbole...or a Hyperbolic trajectory for rockets loaded with Parables....
Many countries have better oil reserves, yes. But the one thing that made iraq different was they were not selling their oil in petrodollars. One of the first things the US did when they got into iraq was switch back to selling oil in petrodollars. It might have been an easy excuse to say we needed to get rid of Saddam, and truth me told we really did need to get rid of him, but that was not the only reason to go to war with Iraq (not including the wmd **** up).
Why does everyone keep speaking of China as if it were a U.S. ally? Have we forgotten who it was that had North Korea's back in the Korean War, a war that was started by the North Koreans and condemned by the U.N.? Those facts didn't stop the Chinese (nor the Russians) from going toe-to-toe with nuclear-armed Americans, and China at the time didn't even have the nuke.
Fast forward a few decades. Who was it that helped both Pakistan and North Korea get the nuke? When George Bush the Second, lightning rod for nationalist anti-Anglos everywhere, rightfully grouped North Korea in the Axis of Evil, who advocated the invasion and overthrow of North Korea then? Certainly not the anti-war camp. And NOW we are dealing with a nuclear armed overweight lunatic with bad hair. What if we had not overthrown Saddam when we did? What if we did not start putting the thumbtacks underneath the Iranian mullahs' fingernails when we did? We would be dealing with THREE nuclear-armed lunatics by now.
The Chinese have been causing trouble with all of their Pacific neighbors in recent months over territorial claims. It constantly threatens Japan, Taiwan, and even the United States with rhetoric that the Kims have clearly drawn on for inspiration. Whether Americans want to admit it or not, China has been playing a dangerous game of good cop/bad cop with its rogue pitbull, North Korea. I have no doubt that the Chinese are experimenting with North Korea to see whether a nuclear proxy can be used to nuke U.S. assets or even the U.S. homeland.
We must have a zero tolerance for nuclear attacks. Any attack must escalate to full-scale nuclear war, as decades of Pentagon wargames have already demonstrated that contained, limited nuclear war is impossible. Yes, this means a nuclear attack from North Korea must spell Armageddon for most of the world, but it's the only rational way to deal with Russian/Chinese proliferation. Otherwise, we're going to eventually experience near anonymous nuclear attacks of all sorts, and we simply cannot absorb such attacks the way we did with 9/11 or even Hurricane Katrina.
Although North Korea might indeed strike the US with a nuclear bomb, I suspect their leader believes the world is very much the size of their own country or would see that the idea of even a massive nuclear bomb is something of a joke to a country the size of the US. Sure, it would kill many people and set the world in turmoil, but a single bomb no matter how well targeted just cannot do that much damage to a larger country. Strikes against small nation states like North Korea itself would definitely disrupt their entire way of life but a single bomb against any of the big countries would just be a very unpleasant mess that had to be cleaned up so things could move ahead. The fact of the threat itself indicates that they do not even understand how out of sync their worldview is.