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Police Capture Second Marathon Bombing Suspect in Watertown, Mass.
Police have captured believed Boston Marathon bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, who was "pinned down" in a boat stored behind a house in Watertown, Massachusetts. You can listen to the live police feed here.
Over and over again.
So the Sox can still get the game in, right?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Can't Corner the Tsarnaev just doesn't have the same ring to it.
In Soviet Russia, dot slashes YOU!
Awesome! So glad that someone posted the live Boston police scanner stream. The scanner was VERY much ahead of any live news.
A parked boat is probably not the best way to escape Boston and evade the police
Where is a moderator when you need one.
I read police were tracking the hijacked car through it's built-in gps, they threw flash-bang grenades into the previously searched boathouse (a woman noticed later the door was open), and the suspect surrendered, covered in blood.
The good guys? Surely you aren't talking about the feds????
Jeez all you gotta do is let a few bombs go off a decade and the gullible masses just up and forget ALL of your past heinous treachery in an instant! How convenient it must be for them that the country they rule is full of dumb as pigshit plebs.
Nothing "paranoid Mulsim conspiracy nut" about the father's response he is still in the denial phase that a parent would be when they learn their child has done something really, really bad.
The "lockdown" of Boston is a bit disturbing. But, rest assured the LAPD would have burned the boat to the ground. Boston PD seems to be a bit more professional and restrained.
Let's remember, folks, that until we see actual evidence and he's tried, that he's a *suspect.* I'm all for the consequences if he is proven to be the perpetrator, but let's not all jump on the finger-pointing-based-conviction bandwagon.
Yeah - cause shooting at cops always proves how innocent you are.
CBS reported that few years back Russians warned FBI about older brother being radicalized. So FBI asked him, he said "nope", they said "ok" and let him go. And they totally forgot about it - he wasn't on the list of suspects...
That's "cooperation" alright...
Caught because someone noticed something strange in the backyard and called it in.
Like many other problems, ordinary folks pitching in to help in an appropriate way can sure help to fix things.
You're free to hide out until the verdict, and beyond. I'll trust the identification provided by the guy who was carjacked, while you explain why he would lie about the alleged confession/boast.
An image on the TV news of the boat in the backyard looks like a Google Street View image.
Gee I don't know maybe the VIDEOS OF THEM PLANTING THE BOMBS? Or maybe them SHOOTING AND THROWING EXPLOSIVES AT COPS?
Is it safe to go out now?
Of course not. 4chan might decide you're dark skinned and subject you to their full sanction - circling someone who kinda looks like you on a picture. I believe that's called "vigilantism" and we are sorely afraid of it.
Doesn't seem like a very funny guy.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on the actual information we have (as given by the news media to date), this "monster" may be involved to the degree of anywhere between "mastermind of terrorist bombing operation, detonated the bombs, shot various innocent people in the process" to "forced by actual terrorist brother to hang around him for the time period in question".
I'd like a little more detail (that is, any) as to specific charges and evidence before making such a characterization.
Exactly. Shooting a cop, running, throwing bombs out windows, more shootouts, are all things that innocent people do.
Clearly, calling up the BPD and saying "hey we are the guys in the pictures and we didn't do it! lets talk!" would be crazy
9000 police officers. Wow. Where were they when +10.000 were shot to death in 2012? That's about 28 a day.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20759139
Yeah - cause shooting at cops always proves how innocent you are.
Who shot first?
I don't know about anyone else, but I've seen my share of bloodshed this week. I'd rather that he get caught alive than see another life down the hole. It's amazing how fragile life can be.
I guess the DOJ is trying to put lipstick on a pig.
No Ketchin' the Chechins.
Was it 'til now.
I'm glad they got one of them alive. Not that I'd have shed any tears if they'd both died -living is better than what they deserve- but when one of these folks can be taken alive, it opens up opportunities for study that could prove valuable. Definitely preferable, when it can be helped.
why is this on slashdot ???
Perhaps not innocent, that doesn't mean he is the right guy.
Proper trials are not only there to make sure that innocent people doesn't get punished. If a rapist gets convicted of murder that means that the murderer goes free.
"Beyond reasonable doubt" isn't only there to protect innocents, it also makes sure that cases doesn't get closed until we know that we've got the right guy.
Who cares that this is a US focused website. Why don't we have front page news when people die when a tornado goes on a rampage. Etc. Why do people rubberneck when planes crash or bullets fly or bombs explode and white people are harmed, yet about a hundred people kicked the bucket today in boring old car wrecks. Etc.
Han Solo of course.
Maybe I am not current and entirely out of line, but with all the locking-down and searching-of-houses happening: what happened to the constitutional rights re: search and seizure? Suspending them for an entire town and effectively rendering it into a war zone with suspended rights to apprehend one guy how killed two people seems a little... ah... third world?
There was a stupid picture going around facebook today that was kind of right. Only in Boston will they shut down the entire goddamned city to search for someone like this. Don't fuck with Bawfston.
The more successes they have with good, honest police work, the less likely the past awfulness will be repeated. Bad behavior is more often born of frustration than success.
Unfortunately for your argument this darkskin person they sanctioned in fact had several bombs in their vehicle which they threw at police vehicles.
It also encouraged no actual vigilantism and the suspects were apprehended by police.
Thanks for the chuckle.
SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
put him on the running man it's more then just a race.
Don't forget the New York Post's involvement in the affair.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/18/ny-post-boston-suspects-bag-men-front-page_n_3109052.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular
Mob justice.....great idea. Please go back to whatever third world country you came from.
since she'll be putting together the federal case against this guy...
is provided just in case you don't have a TV or radio, and your ISP blocks access to all news organizations. Remember, you heard it on /. first!
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Oh, I guess I didn't get the Slashdot memo...so torture and no due process is now okay?
Just checking: are drone strikes, domestic spying, overzealous prosecution, and all the other things we usually rant about, still bad?
Please help metamoderate.
I'm going to another site. As a european Im used to american-centric viewpoints etc. And ofcourse I could understand the 9/11 post. But there were 3 people killed in one measly attack. I live in a very small country but there are more people killed in traffic each day then by the Boston attack. Every week there are much bigger terrorist attacks going on in the world. Could you please stick to nerdy stuff?
The question of safe to go out is moot. It's Friday night and these are nerds.
Also, these are the people hanging out on 4chan. So it's double-moot.
Wai, how convenient. This is 4chan. It's triple-moot.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Okay.... my first reaction was that's kind of spooky.
But then, every so often, it seems like Nostradamus sort of gets something right too.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Apparently we are running out of that for Slashdot
"why is this on slashdot ???"
To annoy loser anonymous cowards.
All you need to know about Chechen terrorism here
Usually rats flee sinking ships. This is the first time a sinking rat fled to a ship.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
...if he is proven to be the perpetrator, but let's not all jump on the finger-pointing-based-conviction bandwagon.
There is time and place for comments like this, however, opening your mouth in situations like this only proves you are a fool. I honestly hope you never appear on any jury. Let's put it together, shall we: video at the site, murdered MIT officer, hijacked car, admits involvement, robbed convenience store, shoots at police, throws explosives, runs and hides when accomplice dies, shoots again when found.
I mean, fuck me, let's not jump to conclusions already...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on the actual information we have (as given by the news media to date), this "monster" may be involved to the degree of anywhere between "mastermind of terrorist bombing operation, detonated the bombs, shot various innocent people in the process" to "forced by actual terrorist brother to hang around him for the time period in question".
I'd like a little more detail (that is, any) as to specific charges and evidence before making such a characterization.
Couldn't agree more. Sharpen the points on your pitchforks, but don't actually start waving them around yet.
Fuck religion, period. Christianity over time has had similar consequences. It's not a surprise that they are literally in the same family is nutty belief systems...
That is why it was wrong to take him alive. That would be my defense for sure. Oh wait they did not Miranda him.
Dzhokhar goes to Gitmo
Fuck religion and everything that comes with it: horrific acts world-wide, subjugation of women in everywhere, and persecution of anyone who dares to speak against it.
Fixed that for you.
Unfortunately for your argument this darkskin person they sanctioned in fact had several bombs in their vehicle which they threw at police vehicles.
A lie can run round the world before the truth can get its boots on. Unfortunately, for your argument.
The "darkskin", as you like to put it - the one whose picture appeared in Rupert Murdoch's newspaper - is the innocent one. People rushed to judgement.
The guys who were throwing bombs and firing off guns right and left were pasty-pale people.
For all we know, they were commiting a crime of an unrelated nature.
My point has not changed from my original post; I am tired of this bloody spectacle. The news has been fixated on this even for the past four days, and it has done nothing but reinforce fear and paranoia within our society. While the odds are high that these men are guilty, we should not let our personal opinions interfere with our judgement or our civility. I thought a little satire in my parent post would make this point, but I guess it didn't.
before this case is even brought before a courtroom, police have already done the finger pointing, and the court of public opinion has already found him guilty
The police always do their finger pointing before the case is brought before a courtroom. Otherwise why would he be in the courtroom?
And I wouldn't worry too much about the court of public opinion. Odds are nobody here will serve on the jury, and nobody here is suggesting vigilante justice. I wouldn't even worry too much about him being railroaded since his trial will be very high profile. The real railroading occurs out of public scrutiny.
I know it's politically incorrect to say this, and I'm posting anonymously to save my karma, but . . .
Fuck all religious fundamentalists. There's not really much difference between any of them.
First of all, congrats to Boston Police for a great, professional job. Much better have the guy alive so he can face a fair trial.
But as soon as it ended there was Carmen Ortiz self-congratulating with the guys who did the real job. I sincerely hope she doesn't manage to use the current media attention to make people forget what she did in Aaron's case.
with honking cars, etc, as when a Boston sports team wins a championship. Lots of people going outside.
What about the 32,248 other potential terrorists?
Don't they need to be detained and questioned before we know we're safe?
How long until Marathon 2: Durandal?
So they didn't Miranda him. That just means that a court could throw out any statements that he makes. I suspect that there is enough physical evidence and cell camera footage to force a conviction.
People who live in glass houses shouldn't walk and text.
On the one hand, we must maintain the due process of law that makes this country great. On the other hand, threads like this help us vent.
Therefore, I suggest that we throw him in a food processor, and blow him out a vent.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
It's cute that you think he's going to have a trial. Let many innocent (and, presumably also many guilty) people before him, he'll wind up in Guantanamo where he will rot away for eternity without any due justice. You know, upholding our good old American values in the face of adversity and all.
Agreed. Only, substitute this with all of the major religions which encourage and promote this sort of atmosphere and hatred. Christianity, Islam, etc. Don't pretend your shit doesn't stink when you're part of the problem.
Have people already forgotten that the police are holding a suspect under armed guard in a hospital? You know, the Saudi national? I heard nothing to remove suspicion of this guy being a participant to the crime.
What's happened to our news media? They were all over this Saudi national just hours ago but now we hear about a "first" suspect shot dead and a "second" being captured, both immigrants from Russia.
It seems both the large news media outlets and a large portion of the public have short memories. I want to know what's up with this Saudi guy. Do we have a name? How did he get in the country? Was he immigrating? Did he have a student visa? If so, what school did he attend? Was anyone watching him before the bombs went off? Do we have a picture?
If this Saudi is no longer a suspect then we should still have something on him. Even if that something is an explanation on why he's no longer a suspect.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
"Good guys"? The methods used have noting to do with "good", more with "totalitarian", "illegal" and "keep the citizens in fear". It does not get a lot more evil than that.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Even the president has declared them guilty. Guess I should just throw in the towel.
“Whatever hateful agenda drove these men to such heinous acts will not, cannot, prevail. Whatever they thought they could achieve, they’ve already failed.” -- President Obama (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/19/17823265-we-got-him-boston-bombing-suspect-captured-alive?lite)
You think so? The US administration has by now gotten close enough to totalitarian that they would probably do the same everywhere. Next time with even less of a reason.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Why can't I help but think of "when you see a Chink, shoot. If he runs, it's a Vietcong, if he doesn't run, it's a disciplined Vietcong"...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
We've had enough of this ignoring the Constitution lately. Why don't we try using it for a change.
Exactly like 9-11. Lake Afghanistan and all that. Until later when we find out the truth. Problem this time is the truth has been in your face the whole time.
http://www.storyleak.com/sunil-tripathi-boston-marathon-suspect-4chan-fbi-media/
When Taco left I knew it was wayyy over. Why am I here?
Indeed. The problem is that the "War on Terror" is really a war of Christian fuck-ups against Islamic fuck-ups. Nothing good can ever come from religion if taken seriously.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
You have seen them? Where could I get a view of them? All I have seen is a few videos of some guys with backpacks running about that were presented to me by the cops, telling me "this is the guys we're looking for". About the shooting and throwing explosives at cops, again, do you have a source? All I have is cops telling me he shot at them and threw explosives.
Audi alteram partem, anyone?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Either hand in your nerd card now or tell me this is a rhetorical question. Why on earth would you want to leave your house at a Saturday night?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
That's too easy on him. Giving him to Bruins fans would be far worse.
he is, at thismpoint a suspect
he, and every arrestee, presumed innocent, deserves medical care - or do you think the police never arrest black guys for fun ?
as to your whining about lawyers - I'm glad you trust the gov't to do the right thing - why don't you move to russia, where the gov't doesn't have these pesky civil liberty things
but the worst is your totally false characterization of fed prisions - the super max facilities are hell on earth; 23 hours a day in solitary, with exercise in a small fenced in area
if you think that is humane you are, literally, insane
to think that we fight terrorists for people like you; makes me sick
So that's what martial law will look like, huh?
That's a novel idea. It'll probably never catch on.
After become a devout Muslim. Was there for half a year, probably got training on how to build the IED.
Who said he didn't? You think this is over already?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
...at least according to witnesses, and he's still alive.
I guess he was surrounded by stormtroopers.
And a few random titbits about the bombing.
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
You would have to ask the MIT security guy about that.
Oh shucks. He's dead.
> Fuck religion, period. Christianity over time has had similar consequences.
Centuries ago.
I am agnostic, but let's face reality. Muslim terrorist acts out-number all other terrorist acts about 10,000 to 1.
20,000 Muslim terrorist acts since 9/11, 250,000 casualties. Modern Christianity does not compare.
> The problem is that the "War on Terror" is really a war of Christian fuck-ups against Islamic fuck-ups.
Classic false equivalence argument. There is actually no comparison. Muslim terrorist attacks far outnumber all other groups combined, by about 10,000 to 1.
But we may at least hope she doesn't fuck that case up as usual.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
WATERTOWN, Mass. — Police arrested the second suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings here on Friday night, capping a day of intense searching that shut down daily life across a large swath of greater Boston.
Shortly after 8 p.m., police surrounded a tarp-covered boat stored behind a home in Watertown, a short distance away from where Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 19, had last been seen. Tsarnaev was thought to be wounded but alive: Witnesses reported that they could hear police calling his name, attempting to induce his surrender.
His capture seemed to surprise even investigators, who just a short time earlier had conceded that their daylong manhunt had up to that point been fruitless. Police at the scene of his arrest broke out in cheers and high fives. Neighbors stood on their front porches, applauding, as an ambulance prepared to take the suspect to a hospital.
“We got him,” Boston Mayor Thomas Menino wrote in a tweet.
The other suspect in Monday’s bombings at the marathon — Tsarnaev’s older brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev — died early Friday in a shootout with police. The gun battle had ended a violent overnight spree in which the two brothers allegedly killed a campus police officer, carjacked a Mercedes, and tossed explosives out the car window at pursuing police.
As the five-day manhunt for the suspects drew to a close, the FBI also confirmed that its agents in Boston had interviewed TamerlanTsarnaev in 2011 at the request of a foreign government. A law enforcment official said the request came from the Russian government, concerned about Tsarnaev’s potential ties to Chechen terrorists. But after that interview, the FBI did not follow him further, officials said.
In a few days, the Tsarnaevs had become a new lesson in the awful magnifying power of terrorism.
Two unremarkable brothers, armed with low-tech bombs and no apparent escape plan, had allegedly killed four people, injured more than 170, and held one of America’s great cities in terror.
On Friday, investigators sought to determine how and why the two had allegedly turned to violence.
The Tsarnaev brothers are of Chechen heritage. Both were born in the Caucasus region, a cauldron fought over by Chechen separatists, Russian security forces, Islamic extremists and organized crime. They had immigrated legally and lived for years in the Boston area, where their father, Anzor, was an auto mechanic.
In the past, both men had embraced American passions, according to friends and neighbors. Tamerlan was an accomplished boxer, with a wife and child. Dzhokhar was a wrestler at Cambridge’s public high school and went on to attend the University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth.
On Thursday evening, authorities released photos of two men spotted carrying backpacks near the marathon’s finish line. These were apparently the Tsarnaevs, though authorities did not say that at the time — and, perhaps, did not know it at all.
Their targets, it turned out, had not fled the city or the country. A few hours later, they began a violent spree just across the Charles River in Cambridge.
At about 10:30 p.m., authorities said, the two shot and killed MIT police officer Sean Collier, 26, as Collier sat in his cruiser. It was unclear what triggered that shooting: authorities said surveillance video appears to show the two approaching Collier and killing him without warning.
After that, the men allegedly carjacked a Mercedes sport utility vehicle and took the driver with them. At least one brother told the carjacked driver that they were the marathon bombers, officials said. They forced the driver to stop at several bank machines, and took $800 that he withdrew. After a few minutes, the man was left behind at a gas station, unharmed. It was unclear whether he escaped or was let go.
From there, the brothers drove about three miles, throwing explosives out the window at police. In Watertown, they engaged in a shootout with police, in which at least
A few years back, the owner of a porn shop was killed and his store looted. The police tracked down the stolen goods, arrested the guy, and he was convicted of burglary and murder.
Fast-forward a few years. Someone doing time for assault is bragging to fellow prisoners about knocking off a porn-shop owner. After much prodding from the original suspect's relatives, the police take a closer look at evidence from the crime scene, and realized that he was telling the truth: he'd entered the store, found the owner dead, and taken the opportunity to loot the place.
Shooting at the police just proves you're guilty of shooting at police. It doesn't prove you're guilty of anything else.
AMEN
Religion is bad because it gives people a way to manipulate the natural human hatred of the other.
Neither does ancient Christianity. The "acts of terror" people love to ascribe to it were political strife, caused by warring Kings who claimed Christianity to win over the masses. There is literally not a single part of Christianity that is violent. Some old testament Jewish stuff that was over ruled by Jesus in the new testament was but nothing in the new testament condones violence of any kind.
The atheist bigots don't like to talk about that tho. It's just "Fuck religion" all day long, showing the same hatred they claim belongs to religion. It's pathetic.
You know, you could get a lot more captive audience if you learned to be more eloquent.
Is it safe to go out now?
Of course not. 4chan might decide you're dark skinned and subject you to their full sanction - circling someone who kinda looks like you on a picture. I believe that's called "vigilantism" and we are sorely afraid of it.
But... but... but vigilante justice is the BESTEST justice! There's no better way to rationalize doing things to sate our shut-in bloodlust and desire to be action movie heroes! And best of all, this is the internet, so we can do whatever we want without any fear of reprisal!
I think the fact that he defended himself vigorously after his brother's death shows he was not a forced party in that duo. If your monster evil brother is finally dead you'd be more resigned to whatever comes next.
You went to the middle east for them, so they could continue to accumulate money. Sorry that sucks.
Bubba the Butt Bandit is saving chicken grease from thursday dinners in anticipation.
Oh, it's still Muslims. Just like every other roadside bombing.
But now it's light skinned Muslims! Take that you Fox News racists!
I have a question about the legal proceedings involving the death penalty: Massachusetts has no death penalty. Is there a federal crime here that could be punished in this way? (Not saying the guy did it, or if he deserves it, just asking about the legal implications about what happened)
So true...
I'm a Dzhokar,
I'm a bruiser,
I'm a bomber,
And I'm a loser
Sure would like to hurt someone...
Cuz I'm a student,
And I'm a killer,
When I was running
I found a tiller
Ending my life out on the run...
There is literally not a single part of Christianity that is violent.
Well, what about that Jew nailed to a stick that Christians just love to dwell on? That entire religion is pretty damn morbid... their bible brimming with fucked up shit, just waiting for someone with mental problems to take in such a way that they do something vile. It's a fucking morbid fairy tale meant to control primitive people.
Still a pig.
New Economic Perspectives
Bad behavior is more often born of frustration than success.
Bad behavior by government agencies is always born of lack of oversight.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Yeah, keeping people of the street due to a massive manhunt. Totalitarian! Black Helicopters! Tyranny! Fascists! Walrus! Broccoli! God help us all!!!!
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montejo_v._Louisiana
Make sure he's wearing a Canadiens jersey first.
Classic false equivalence argument. There is actually no comparison. Muslim terrorist attacks far outnumber all other groups combined, by about 10,000 to 1.
Classic argument from ignorance.
Europol Report: All Terrorists are Muslims... Except the 99.6% that Aren't
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
There is literally not a single part of Christianity that is violent.
Jesus beat the shit out of the moneychangers in the temple.
But really, you've fallen victim to the "no true scotsman" fallacy. Anyone who commits violence in the name of christianity isn't a christian. In my experience, the people who are willing to apply that standard to christianity aren't willing to apply that standard to any other religions.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
The atheist bigots don't like to talk about that tho. It's just "Fuck religion" all day long, showing the same hatred they claim belongs to religion. It's pathetic.
Especially when atheists Mao and Stalin and eugenics-fueled Hitler killed more people than anyone else in history...
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
I find it amusing when people call things a "conspiracy nut delusion" when it is something that has been known to occur at points in the past. It's like people who probably used to say "oh, you're just a conspiracy nut! nobody is doing crazy deadly experiments on black prisoners under the radar!" until, you know, years later we find out that the government has done exactly that.
For instance: It's well known that frat boys get drunk and sometimes crash vehicles. Ergo: Roswell incident was caused by drunken frat-boy Ailens. The cover up was to prevent embarrassing their powerful interplanetary diplomat parents.
We know this is true because this sort of thing happens all the time.
In my experience, the people who are willing to apply that standard to christianity aren't willing to apply that standard to any other religions.
I totally would, if Muslims would come out and criticize Islamic terrorism, but most Muslims seem to clam up instead. And at times I have overheard them secretly cheering (I used to work with Muslims that made statements like this when they thought nobody was listening). Christians are quick to criticize "Christian" lunatics like WBC.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
Funny. The only hatred I'm seeing in this thread is coming from atheists...
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
There was a stupid picture going around facebook today that was kind of right. Only in Boston will they shut down the entire goddamned city to search for someone like this. Don't fuck with Bawfston.
Sometimes they shut the whole place down just because of some damn snow. What's your point? The shut down was basically an uexpected snow-day in the middle of April? Fuck off, idiot.
Exactly. Shooting a cop, running, throwing bombs out windows, more shootouts, are all things that innocent people do.
Clearly, calling up the BPD and saying "hey we are the guys in the pictures and we didn't do it! lets talk!" would be crazy
Well, that all depends on how innocent you are, and what you're innocent of.
These good Muslims were only doing what their religion commands them to do.
So if we're going to go around and generalize people based on their religion, how is Christianity any different?
Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
It's about Salafism/Wahhabism, not about Islam in general.
19,000 police caught him! At first it looked like they wouldn't, but one of those annoying 'non-police-people' phoned in a tip, and 19,000 more came back, and caught him! Apparently 3000 surrounded the house, another 5000 moved in. 4000 blocked local streets, and the other 7000 did the arrest. Done!
In Soviet Russia, you don't Miranda people.
"Over time". Stalin outdid Christianity's death toll across all time in a couple of decades.
And before you get too excited, this was mass-murder of theists and atheists alike. But what are you really expecting, when the primary purpose of existence is the best interests of oneself and one's own DNA?
It's really not quite an equivalent comparison, though. To compare them, you'd have to have the Christian side of the equation be unmixed with other political factors, like, a President who declared as the central attribute of his qualifications that he was Christian, that managed to turn the government to officially Christian by constitution, and declared the primary political goal of the country's actions to be the expansion of Christianity.
We don't have such a perfect test case in the case of Christianity. We do have that, except substitute "atheist", for "Christian", for atheism. We have as a reference an atheist leader, guiding a country that was officially atheist by law and definition, overtly and explicitly stated by that government to be a country pursuing the political advancement of atheist principles.
And from that, we have...
20 to 40 million people dead, mostly the country's own citizens, in less than a single lifetime--fully and directly attributable to atheism, bizarre twisting Hitchens-esque evasive rationalizations of "religion is to blame even for the actions of atheists" notwithstanding.
Your turn.
Fuck religion, period. Christianity over time has had similar consequences. It's not a surprise that they are literally in the same family is nutty belief systems...
As a Baptized Born-Again Christian, I must interject: Hablam basepheth gandalphgolf mekalekahigh meccahigh nee ho! Banthapoodoo shoobob alobob awapbamboo!
Seriously, fuck that shit. I once was "saved" but now I'm Atheist. That shit religion fucked up my young life.
DM;OB
WÌÌfÍ--ÍSÌÒÍ...Í...ÌHÌÍfÍÍÍ--ÍÍÍ
In my experience, the people who are willing to apply that standard to christianity aren't willing to apply that standard to any other religions.
I totally would, if Muslims would come out and criticize Islamic terrorism, but most Muslims seem to clam up instead. And at times I have overheard them secretly cheering (I used to work with Muslims that made statements like this when they thought nobody was listening). Christians are quick to criticize "Christian" lunatics like WBC.
You're cherry picking the home team, and generalizing the away team. I know a lot of "Christians" that think abortion clinic bombings are justified because the victims are legal murderers.
WBC isn't the only lunatic group as viewed from the outside.
a handful of selfish greedy people are no match for millions of selfish, greedy people -u4ya
Such a quagmire !
A perfectly reasonable WH+DHS+DOJ operation goes 'purple.'
Now, a mis-identified suspect is killed.
A MIT rent-a-cop is killed.
Mis-identified suspect 2 is gut shot and in custody of the 'LOCAL POLICE.'
Major White House shit party is underway and will be underway for many hours.
DHS+DOJ are arguing to kill suspect 2 and make it look like a suicide.
Obama decides to 'Oswald' him, before he can talk; likely in the hospital underground garage as he is be transferred from the hospital to County.
Gets better and better and better and better.
Pasty Pale Islamists are still Islamists.
Next thing you know, jack-booted thugs will be forcing little old ladies out of their homes just because some alleged Cat-5 hurricane is coming.
You realize, I hope, that your conjecture here of what people are probably going to do when considering religion is saying a lot more about your psychology than theirs...
You sound exactly like a guy saying "You know what's going to happen if people look at porn, with how someone with mental problems is going to have to be doing all this thinking about rape, I mean, for... those people... just thinking about all the fucked up shit you could be doing to a woman... all those sweet, helpless women--I mean, poor helpless women..."
The statistics about how many people want to crucify someone after attending church and seeing a cross (none) do enough to show your thinking nonsense. Don't embarrass yourself more by elaborating.
And all without having troops occupy Massachusetts, send armed UAVs in to take out targets in Boston and engage in a little 9 year occupation of Maine on the side.
We are concerned about intelligence indicating New Hampshire possesses nuclear technology, in spite of their continued claims tha it is for peaceful uses only.
Have gnu, will travel.
I totally would, if Muslims would come out and criticize Islamic terrorism, but most Muslims seem to clam up instead.
(a) Now you've moved the goal posts from the religion to individuals who profess to follow the religion.
You are balls-deep in the no true scotsman fallacy with that.
(b) Is thousands of prominent muslims good enough for you?
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
The vast majority of religious people never hurt anyone. Horrific acts and persecution are committed by those who can't accept that other people dare to disagree with them. Such murderers tend to be Muslim in our corner of space and time, but in other places and other eras, they have been Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, and yes, even Atheist. And subjugation of women? Please. Slashdot, Reddit, 4chan... the internet is stuffed to bursting with misogynistic atheist pricks.
Religion is not the problem. Assholes are the problem. And you certainly seem to be one of them.
Especially when atheists Mao and Stalin and eugenics-fueled Hitler killed more people than anyone else in history...
Ah, the atheism is a religion viewpoint. As if Mao/Stalin/Hitler/et al were killing people according to please exactly which god? The vacuum of space perhaps?
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
"When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim, rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original universal claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule."
Source
The rule here is "love your neighbor as yourself" and "if a man strikes you on your left cheek, turn to him your right also". In other words, it isn't Christian because it's contrary to the definition of Christianity.
There is no "No true Scotsman" fallacy here, and invoking the fallacy isn't a license to the unlimited guilt-by-association opportunities denying all definitions would provide.
I'm sorry, but that whole website is one big case study in schizophrenia. If you want to know what real-life schizophrenics (especially the non-disorganized type) are like, go over to that site and look around a bit.
I'm sure Charles Mansion wasn't the only nutjob who took some ideas from the bible and executed some his plans based on his own views. All in the name of some generically-named "god." How many of the most infamous serial killers aside from him were religious--and I'm not just talking about Christianity either? I bet a decent number of them, if not all of them. Nice way to take my words at face value and automatically assume that just because I am talking about a religious figure being nailed to a cross, that the same exact kind of crime/torture/killing is what I'm talking about. Hint: I'm not talking about imitation murders, and that was just an example. Mansion "believes" in the bible, yet I don't think he pinned anyone to a cross.
Eh, the Kurds were the people urged to rise up against Saddam with the promise the US would then help them. The US did not. Saddam then beat down the uprising.
The US, both its leaders and its people have an incredibly poor grasp of just how good others remember their little games. Do you think a single European nation has forgotten the US betrayal Srebrenica. Dutch light infantry forces on the ground and US air forces were supposed to protect the Muslims in the area. Then the Serves attacked with heavy armour and the Dutch had no option to pull back because the US air forces did NOT respond to a NATO ally call for air strikes.
US citizens may be to stupid to know what happens in their name but the rest of the world knows.
without reference to any specific objective rule."
The rule here is "love your neighbor as yourself" and "if a man strikes you on your left cheek, turn to him your right also".
Look, you just quoted TWO rules.
In other words, it isn't Christian because it's contrary to the definition of Christianity.
And now you've generalized to a non-specific, non-objective rule. I think you just proved my point.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
I would have rather USA took over than russia, even if for simple reasons like russian entertainment and fun is utterly crap. Why did they want so much control, god damn nut cases! too much brain damage from vodkas.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
There are suspects and then there are suspects. And you are lying you are NOT all for the consequences if he is proven guilty, you are one of those bleeding hearts that thinks everybody deserves a millonth chance and then some and that all punishments should not have any adverse affect on anyone. Mass murderer has a pet rock? Well, if the murderer is forced to at a time of his convience call the police station to report his position, well, that could upset the rock. Set him FREE!
Well until someone gives you a nickle to little in chance or scratches your car. Then hanging is to good for them.
Innocent people brothers are not killed by their own bomb explosions in a shootout with the police and do not throw bombs out of cars at police. This is NOT a case of resisting arrest or fleeing because you are afraid of being caught with a joint.
All that is needed to prove he is guilty right now is a DNA link with his brother. That would prove they got the right man.
Right. Two. One was needed to prove my point, two is informative overkill.
I generalized nothing, and the definition is provided by the examples. There's nothing complicated here.
I know there's nothing complicated here because you'd reason this way on no other topic in existence, but religion. If I said to be a "software developer", you need to write code and conceptualize algorithms, and I said "no -true- software developer would only write documentation", and someone called that the No True Scotsman fallacy, we'd both dismiss it as entirely absurd.
I know it's important to you to define Christianity -specifically and only- in terms of "anything done by anyone claiming to be a Christian, insofar as and specifically while they are doing something contrary to what the religion explicitly states", and not in a remotely-sensible way, because it's the only way you can stack your irrationality on top of that irrationality, as you haughtily compare how much better your non-demographic of the non-defined is by reference to their non-actions--but really, if nothing else let's get you up to speed on logical fallacies. It's basic philosophy, even if you can't stand religion.
Really, you need to skim more.
Exactly. Shooting a cop, running, throwing bombs out windows, more shootouts, are all things that innocent people do.
In practice they serve as an Error Correction Protocol on the arrest process.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
I generalized nothing, and the definition is provided by the examples. There's nothing complicated here.
"love your neighbor as yourself"
"if a man strikes you on your left cheek, turn to him your right also".
There are plenty of "christians" who do shitty things to other people because they think those other people deserve it and are happy to embrace the idea that if they themselves 'deserved' it, they would receive similar treatment. In other words, your two rules can easily be contradictory depending on the circumstances.
I know it's important to you to define Christianity -specifically and only- in terms of "anything done by anyone claiming to be a Christian, insofar as and specifically while they are doing something contrary to what the religion explicitly states", and not in a remotely-sensible way, , because it's the only way you can stack your irrationality on top of that irrationality, as you haughtily compare how much better your non-demographic of the non-defined
Sorry, but WTF? That doesn't parse and there is no way I said anything like what you put within quote marks there. I am starting to question your lucidity. Maybe you just typoed and would like a second chance at expressing yourself.
But the one thing I do take away from your insulting wording is that apparently you perceive me to have insulted you and you are giving back in kind. You know the opposite of, "if a man strikes you on your left cheek, turn to him your right also."
It's basic philosophy, even if you can't stand religion.
Yeah, not really. I don't have a problem with religion except when it is misused as a justification for evil.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Yeah, keeping people of the street due to a massive manhunt. Totalitarian! Black Helicopters! Tyranny! Fascists! Walrus! Broccoli! God help us all!!!!
You lost me somewhere between "Fascists!" and "Walrus!".
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
"There are plenty of 'christians' who do shitty things to other people because they think those other people deserve it and are happy to embrace the idea that if they themselves 'deserved' it, they would receive similar treatment. In other words, your two rules can easily be contradictory depending on the circumstances."
Well, then, if they appear to be contradictory, you figure out from what perspective they aren't. I think we can fairly assume a Christian would either find a non-contradictory plan of action, or stop trying to act upon it. I'm not sure, though, that someone actively assuming and seeking contradiction is the best person by which to evaluate the action as "Christian".
"Sorry, but WTF?"
I was addressing your methodology, not methodology you admitted with words. Okay, then, define what you mean by "Christian" in this and other critiques you are making. If you have no definition, stop speaking about it, because you have no valid way to be speaking about it without a definition of what you mean. Step 2 after you answer that should clarify for both of us.
"But the one thing I do take away from your insulting wording is that apparently you perceive me to have insulted you and you are giving back in kind."
Well, it's actually kind-of taken care of tautologically. Since you are being willfully irrational, apparently you don't consider that any kind of insult. ;) In a broader sense, though, if you are equating physical violence with words, I think we have yet another step to back up here.
"I don't have a problem with religion except when it is misused as a justification for evil."
Fair enough. Then I suggest the most-effective way to do this is to deny the justification the person feels they have, by reference to their own authoritative-for-them book.
That's the part where you need inside knowledge into the conspiracy. Sorry, can't talk about that in the open.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
Okay, then, define what you mean by "Christian" in this and other critiques you are making.
I'm not critiquing christianity. I am critiquing those who are unwilling to apply the same standards to other religions as they apply to their religion. See my original post.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
A lot of bullets were flying around, I would defend myself vigorously too in that situation as even surrendering may have been a death sentence on the spot. He is pretty unlikely to be innocent, but even such scum need to be given due process otherwise it may be you that is next on a government lynching.
Perhaps not innocent, that doesn't mean he is the right guy.
Proper trials are not only there to make sure that innocent people doesn't get punished. If a rapist gets convicted of murder that means that the murderer goes free.
"Beyond reasonable doubt" isn't only there to protect innocents, it also makes sure that cases doesn't get closed until we know that we've got the right guy.
Also, it's a well established fact that we've executed innocent people.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Either hand in your nerd card now or tell me this is a rhetorical question. Why on earth would you want to leave your house at a Saturday night?
Restock the Snickers & Coke for an all-night session of Dwarf Fortress.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Psychopaths like the Tsarnaev brothers, the Columbine killers, the 9/11 terrorists, the Koch brothers, etc. are either total predators like Tamerlan or Eric, with a bizarre interest in family hierarchy, a fascination with determining who is and isn't related to you, a desire for stirring religious hatred, and no altruism, empathy, or moral center to be found; they can also have only one allele like Dzhohar ("Johar", whatever), who was maybe an asshole with a superiority complex, but was also quiet about it. He was easygoing enough to form relationships with individuals in both allelic subpopulations, normal and psycho. They'll hang out with you and your other unsuspecting friends, smoke weed with you once a week just like normal Americans, etc. etc., but they'll also carry pressure cookers full of nails into dense crowds of strangers for you if they feel strongly related to you somehow.
The uncle, Ruslan Tsarni, looks like he's carrying normal alleles at this locus. He announced to a mob of reporters that he thought his older nephew was up to no good. He said that his nephew Jahar was a loser for doing what he did, announced he should turn himself in, and ask for forgiveness from the wider population of Boston. He said the brothers "brought shame on their family and upon the entire Chechen ethnicity." It might run in his family, but I don't think the uncle is as interested in seeing people run into trouble just for not being related to him.
Hopefully we decide not to waste another decade. This is not the time to go off fuming about how everyone in Chechnya is carrying this psychotic gene. Everybody there would be dead. Comfort with inhibiting the reproduction of people unrelated to you runs in families all around the world. It occurs in legislatures everywhere. It preserves itself by making you cause problems for people who don't have it. But it has to self-regulate in any wider human population, Chechnya or Boston or wherever, or it goes extinct along with the rest of the genome in the region.
Hopefully we won't see this as an excuse to waste another decade with more political 9/11-style bullshit against one particular religion or another. This was in the end a story of two bungling religious-minded psychotics, with a "mastermind", a "pushover with no conscience", and a shared comfort with mass-murdering a dense unrelated-looking crowd in a city far from home.
Wow, if he'd posted this last week it would have been impressive.
Well, it would have been if he'd actually gotten anything right.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Wait... Jesus was a scotsman?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Wait... Jesus was a scotsman?
He was the one true scotsman.
And O'Bama is Irish too.
These good Muslims were only doing what their religion commands them to do.
So if we're going to go around and generalize people based on their religion, how is Christianity any different?
Maybe his religion tells him that generalization and violence are ok.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Well, at this point, were we to continue, we'd probably have to hash out what those "standards" are as considered by yourself, the person you were replying to, and myself... but since I've already stated my position as relevant to my worldview, I'm rather... unmotivated to do that.
If the right standard is to evaluate the religions by the image of the ultimate Earthly "ends" of the respective religions, though, you may have noted that in general, the expectation of Christianity is, to put it informally, that "things get worse and worse and then God intervenes to save us"--whereas for Islam it tends to be "we take over the world, and convert, forcibly if necessary, everyone". This leads to rather different behavioral expectations, by reference to the outline provided by the defining reference books of each of the religions themselves.
But, I'll leave it there. And my regrets if you leave this conversation feeling insulted. I tend to see my Christian advocacy rather in the style of a surgeon--"Cut them fast and get it over with, so they can start recovering". But I can see how it might seem more like an unpleasant random stabbing. ;)
And so, I'll fade back into the shadows. Good night.
Of course, also thank the FBI for identifying the suspects
Why, when it was the description from the guy who had his legs blown off that led to the FBI determination?
The FBI did have the fancy software that let them sift through video. But the guy who saw one of the bombers in the first place gave them something to sift for.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"--whereas for Islam it tends to be "we take over the world, and convert, forcibly if necessary, everyone".
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about - one standard for you, another standard for the people you disagree with.
There are tons of lines in the quran that directly contradict your statement. Not only that, but the lines typically cited by the crazies as justification for violence against unbelievers are taken out of context. They say things like, "Kill the infidels" when the context is really, "Kill the infidels who are plotting to kill you." If those crazies are still muslims, than christians who cite things like Psalm 144 are still christians.
"Let there be no compulsion in religion." - Quran 2:256
"But if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message." - Quran 3:20
"The Messenger's duty is but to proclaim the Message." - Quran 5:99
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
But there were 3 people killed in one measly attack.
The only reason it's that low is because the 13+ people who lost limbs had lots of medical help literally a moment away. Otherwise they'd be dead too. But is there no compassion for how dramatically they have had lives altered?
In a traffic accident, it's an accident. An unfortunate thing,that happens to a small number of people.
But in this bombing, over a hundred were affected directly (hit by shrapnel or otherwise affected by the bomb), and many tens of thousands had lives disrupted, wondering all day if anywhere they were going in Boston would be where the next bombing occurred. After seeing an accident you don't drive the rest of the day expecting the same accident to happen to you.
I hope that very few other people in your country are such callous assholes. It seems like most of the people I've met traveling abroad have been pretty thoughtful, hopefully you are just an aberration. It's telling that you posted AC, you obviously knew what a jerk you come off as and didn't want to paint your fellow countrymen with the stench of association.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
FBI claims that "due to public safety" miranda rights have been suspended in this case. This just adds insult to this shutting down half of Boston. I was suspecting that government crooks will use this incident in some cynical way, yet I didn't that it will end up in such a fiasco. After installing SWAT team in every little police department around police and FBI has fucked up every possible aspect of chasing those two idiots and now they are covering their asses by revoking the suspect right to attorney. They propably know that after total fuckup they did suspect would propably go away free due to some technicality shown in court. This also establishes VERY bad precedent that will be used by police forces to lock down innocent people around the country. I can easily imagine that protesting against bankster corruption in the future will land you in jail without right to attorney "due to public safety". It's total fuckup on all possible accounts.
If those two terrorists wanted to inflict damage on USofA, they've propably achieved way more than they've imagined.
Islam is evil
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
From MoonOfAlabama
The Russians told the FBI about Tamerlan Tsaernaev radicalization in 2011.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/2011-request-for-information-on-tamerlan-tsarnaev-from-foreign-government
'b' makes some interesting points and raises obvious questions:
The Russians knew for years that the elder brother was radicalizing.
They told the FBI.
The FBI investigated him. It talked with the family and the person. (This confirms what the mother and the father said.)
Did the FBI try to "turn" or entrap him like it did with so many other nuts?
If not why not?
If they did turn him did he do their bidding or was he running as a double agent (compare David Headely)?
Now they will ban reloading powder, limit the number of rounds you can buy and tax them.
It was a false flag operation just like many others before.
Your government are murderers and traitors.
http://preparedchristian.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/planned1.jpg
No, no divergence in standard at all. The standard in both cases is that they conform to the content of their respective defining documents, if they claim to be acting in a way representative of that religion.
What that content is, in the final analysis, is a different and much broader question.
They went around murdering innocent people. seems they assimilated just fine. have you looked at the murder rate in the US lately?
No, no divergence in standard at all. The standard in both cases is that they conform to the content of their respective defining documents,
That sounds like a whole bunch of double standard to me. You sum up christianity with a single rule like love they neighbor as thyself, but islam, we gonna pick and choose which verses count and which ones don't.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
It seems that the one picking and choosing verses is you. I leave the explanation (and whatever "choosing" the explainer may feel necessary) to the person supporting the worldview. In the case of Islam, the follower of Islam can make his case as the the quality of and logical coherence of his worldview. I have no need to do that at all, nor would I, as I'm not a follower of Islam.
Perhaps he can reconcile his verses with this, perhaps he can't. Perhaps he can't and needs to conclude his religion is logically inconsistent. Such an effort or its outcome has nothing to do with me or my religion, though.
As for "love thy neighbor", the founder (Jesus) himself says it in itself sums up the entire Law and Gospel, that is, the entire religion. There literally is no better or more definitional verse to "pick".
When you reference virulently islamophobic sites like thereligonofpeace.com you give up all moral authority - they don't seek truth, they seek justification for hate. If you use the hateful sophistry of that site as a basis of proselytizing against islam then you only devalue your own religion. Honestly, I can't see how a true christian could reconcile "love they neighbor as thyself" with that site - it's a thousand times worse than letting someone Madalyn Murray O'Hair or Richard Dawkins define Christianity.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
No, my authority is complete as-is and backed by being fully accurate--and you have no authority here flowing from a logical level, nor any possible reason you'd have any authority that even you could name, in any broader sense, so I suggest not even bringing that up.
No, I'm not devaluing my own religion, that's just a weird non-sequitur lie that you're saying because it's supposed to sound good, with no logical coherence. By your use of the standard brain-destroying constructions of calling any objective criticism a "phobia", though, I realize you'd have a lot to work on to correct that. Calling it "sophistry" in a manner you don't believe yourself as you are saying it (yes, it is that obvious), in reference to a -plain objective listing of verses-, only reduces any credibility you had.
As for how I reconcile it in terms of "love", it does not serve the best interests of anyone to follow something false, and in terms of reducing the things -actually- describable as "hate" (e.g. the actual cases of people being outright killed by the more aggressive interpretations of Islam), this publishing of facts (I guess, from your perspective, "hateful facts") may reduce the incidence of that. That, in terms of "the greatest good for the greatest many", certainly serves the interests of "loving my neighbor".
And, just for your future benefit, it makes no difference who characterizes Christianity, because they will either characterize it incorrectly (in which case they'll be refuted), or characterize it correctly, in which case they will be acknowledging I am right. I really hope, for your sake, you can get past this notion that things are sort-of true and sort-of false, simultaneously, depending on who is talking about them and what the prevailing "Politically Correct" feelings are. It's pure mainstream academia training for you, I know, but it isn't healthy.
Yeah, like the government also has aliens in area 51, and the CIA was behind 9/11. The nutjob conspiracy loons are the ones that diminish the real conspiracies, because they are so much better than the other 1000 conspiracies out there, one or two isn't that big of a deal.
Learn to love Alaska
> Fuck religion, period. Christianity over time has had similar consequences.
Centuries ago.
I am agnostic, but let's face reality. Muslim terrorist acts out-number all other terrorist acts about 10,000 to 1.
20,000 Muslim terrorist acts since 9/11, 250,000 casualties. Modern Christianity does not compare.
British guy here. We've seen decades of Catholic/Protestant terrorism. There's been some Muslim terrorism, but that's mostly shit your government stirred up.
You don't need evidence. "This is the guy who blew up the Boston Marathon. We don't have any proof, but if you vote "not guilty" you let a murdering terrorist walk." as your closing statement, and the jury will convict without evidence (though a judge may or may not call a mistrial for such a blatant call to ignore the evidence).
Learn to love Alaska
Do you post "Islam is evil too" tu quoque in story involving christians doing reprehensible acts?
Calling it "sophistry" in a manner you don't believe yourself as you are saying it (yes, it is that obvious), in reference to a -plain objective listing of verses-, only reduces any credibility you had.
Cherry picking versus is certainly not objective. Look at the very first one 8:39 - if you go an read 8:38 the context becomes clear - he's only talking about defending themselves against attacks by another religious group - not converting the world by force.
Tell those who disbelieve that if they cease (from persecution of believers) that which is past will be forgiven them; but if they return (thereto) then the example of the men of old hath already gone (before them, for a warning).
That sort of deception is inherent in basically every single page on that site, there is absolutely nothing objective about that place. I don't know a better word for it than sophistry.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Difference number 1: Christians understand "tu quoque" are never an aceeptable excuse for their acts.
They looks like nice chaps, leading a relaxed life. And then then they decide to end it, and take some other people they don't know with them.
Many many Muslims oppose terrorism committed in the name of their religion, however it is less well-known because the media prefer to only show extremist views (which get better ratings).
I like my coffee the way I like my women - roasted and ground up into little tiny pieces.
Miranda him sort of implies he's not a goober in a hospital and capable of understanding anything you are saying. Last we heard, he was in serious condition.
I totally would, if Muslims would come out and criticize Islamic terrorism,
Not to defend them, but did you ever wonder if people in other parts of the world are saying "I totally would, if Americans would come out and criticize American government terrorism,"?
*Any* case you can cite where a high profile suspect arrested in the US for a crime committed in the US has been shipped to Guantanamo? No?
Retard.
Religion is bad because it gives people a way to manipulate the natural human hatred of the other.
'cause Nazism and Communism are all about the religion... got it.
Replying to undo accidental moderation. Lol slashdot ui.
So you are the one who stole my broccoli!
Memory is deceptive because it is colored by today's events. - Albert Einstein
Especially as we're talking about the WHITE HAT suspect. It was his brother who was the black hat.
http://www.infowars.com/grusome-death-photo-of-boston-suspect-emerges/
no official word yet but, this might be his death photo if lightening fast alternative media is correct.
Ok, I buy that. But don't you dare to stick your head out that basement before dawn!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
we can't be against every single asshole on the planet or we'd have no friends
I've found that often times, people who go through life thinking that everyone else is an asshole, often turn out to be the assholes themselves.
You stereotypers are all the same...
Some kind of a commie witch?
You are also a moron
I believe that was a reference to the rash of horse meat being substituted for beef in meats across Europe. That said, most Americans probably think the Angus beef originated in Texas or somewhere similar.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
Great Cthulhu, no. That was the walrus. Pay attention or they will get you!!!!
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
Well, the linked post was put up on Tuesday...
But how would it have been more impressive if the post didn't actually get anything right?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Civilian deaths from the enemy are terrorist acts and civilian deaths from allies are "collateral damage" and aren't even tallied.
Classic false equivalence argument. There is actually no comparison. Muslim terrorist attacks far outnumber all other groups combined, by about 10,000 to 1.
Classic argument from ignorance.
Europol Report: All Terrorists are Muslims... Except the 99.6% that Aren't
loonwatch.com? I think those statistics are heavily doctored. They're counting virtually everything as a "terrorist attack," but as someone in the comment section of your link pointed out, setting fire to a car in Northern Spain is not the same as hijacking an airliner for the purpose of killing as many innocent people as possible. Your link claims separatists and left-wing extremists account for nearly 200 times as many "terrorist attacks" around the world as Muslim extremists.
I'm pretty sure that's bullshit, unless you're counting throwing eggs at cop cars as acts of terrorism.
I think those statistics are heavily doctored. They're counting virtually everything as a "terrorist attack,"
It is Europol's classification. But you know what? It doesn't really matter, the TOTAL number of islamist attacks for the years covered in the reporting, was 5. FIVE total of any level - none of which were hijacking an airliner.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Dood
-the dood...
Seriously though don't let it stress you out so much I can see it in the capital letters. Yes, THEY are all evil, but you still have a life to live and enjoy irrespective of their behavior.
She is far too well-connected to have to worry about any harm to her career from his suicide. Besides, the only people who actually believe that she went too far, and who actually believe that her abuse of her position is responsible for his suicide, are a handful of geeks which: a) make up a very tiny percentage of the population and b) are widely regarded as weird by their peers.
Most of her peers, and most of everyone who's opinion matters for the furtherance of her career, consider that she was just doing her job and Aaron killed himself because he knew he was guilty and was too much of a basket case to cope with the consequences. They see his suicide as an act of cowardice, selfishness, and emotional immaturity to which he was driven by his own failings. Not hers.
All statements to the contrary are made only to placate the sentiments of a public that can't help being a big shaken by a suicide, and who will forget about the whole issue in relatively short order anyway.
Note....I don't think any of this is right. It is (or rather should be) an embarrassment to every human that this is the best we can do.
Yeah it would be crazy, you need an intermediary to help set up the "coming in", preferably your lawyer; even good cops can get adreanalin poisoning in these situations.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Religion does not require a deity. Just ask Buddhists. Philosophies are a step away from being followed on faith. Atheism and Scientific Empericism are two modern philosophies that many people follow not because of reason but because they believe they are true.
Looks like no love between FBI and DHS these days.
FBI grudgingly admits Suspect 1 was interviewed (which means photographs and fingerprints) more than 2 years ago. Regardless of the FBI's own propaganda on this, 'the dead say nothing,' their likely interest was to develop intel on separatists rebel and Chechnya groups the White House was funding using a mix of re-directed campaign funds and monetary instruments for UN funding to destabilize the region of the North Caucasus. So Suspect 1 was an FBI employee on retainer.
Atheism and Scientific Empericism are two modern philosophies
OK, so exactly what tenet of the "philosophy of atheism" was it that inspired Hitler/Mao/etc to kill all those people?
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
You do realize they got it wrong, don't you?
All I have is cops telling me he shot at them and threw explosives.
So you have what the court will have then - eye witness testimony from an officer of the law regarding the conduct of the accused.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Look around in the US and a lot of angry white people with guns. This is not going to end well.
So many other sources just out right call him "the bomber" when we have not convicted him of anything yet :/
When will people wake up and investigate the one common factor in all of these BS cases.. The FBI...
Gee, I thought the Patriot Act and all the other security state measures were supposed to protect us? Just imagine the carnage that would be possible if the federal government couldn't read our e-mail, snoop on our financial transactions, keep track of our phone calls and access our library records?
So, 400 years of Spanish Inquisition doesn't count then?
And you are saying that the Holy Roman Empire was religous in name only?
resist propaganda
If those guys were "darkskin" I'd hate to see your definition of a hot white chick. I'm having visions of a day old dead goth girl.
Aww, you mean these guys are an extremist group for wanting the death penalty to be bestowed upon gays?
http://www.signmovies.com/
Come on, people! It's in the Christian bible, that their god looks down upon gay people, and that they are sinners. Why is no one re-writing the "bad" parts of the bible? Is it such a holy truth that it must never be touched?
This religious group, just maybe more extreme yet still as nutty as all the rest, appears to just want to a law to be put in place to do their god's work for them. Because, you know, their god must be so impotent that he can't even do the job himself. And billions of people pray to that deity for forgiveness every week? Come on!
Yeah, it's a death cult.
BTW, in the first few hundred years of Christianity, more people died in the in-fighting than from Roman persecution. Yeah, a peaceful religion indeed...
Versus what? Digging potatoes? Kramer? The Baltimore Ravens?
You lose, diperhead.
Very interesting that the Left-wing is disproportionately more violence prone than Right-wing
Come back and tell us when they shoot girls in the head for going to school or throw acid in their faces for choosing the "wrong" husband.
"Tits or GTFO" isn't in the same league. It's not even the same game.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
My understanding, for the case of Stalin at least, is that religions were persecuted under his regime because they represented a threat to his ability to control the people. Which isn't really much different from any other tyrant persecuting any other group, to be honest.
they waive miranda and beat it out of you first ...after all you dont have any rights ....i hear they also geting a confession for JFK and every other unsolved murder.
says a lot about your friends....
ya i say go for 20 or 100 trillion wait till everoyne is a terrorist then lock em all up
snake blisken style....
damn peopns
chuck norris was eatne by morris the cat i hear....it farted heavy blue smoke.
Bah, it's not like religion has caused violence in the past. After all, religion is about peace, and good-will. Wars have NEVER been started over religion before.
There isn't some kind of universal atheist you know. There's no instruction manual like a bible (hah!). All an atheist is, is someone who has decided that there is nowhere near enough evidence (ie none usually) to believe silly superstitions. So that make you a nice shiny bigot yourself there. "We call a man a bigot or a slave of dogma because he is a thinker who has thought thoroughly and to a definite end." -Gilbert Keith Chesterton Oh yeah - and making someone chose jesus over their family is a pretty divisive thing to do - obviously nowhere near the level of violence and hatred show in the older parts of the bible though it's true.
Oh yeah... and have you actually read the new testament? Because it's pretty damn violent/nasty.
Erm.. those scumbag leaders didn't *do* what they did because they were atheist. They did what they did because of political power and stupid ideology.
this
Anyone who commits violence in the name of christianity isn't a christian.
Now THAT is a "no true scotsman" fallacy. There is no singular judge of who is a Christian and who is not; it is a self-identifying condition. This means I could go out murdering and eating millions of babies in the name of God, and I would still be a Christian (to myself) regardless of how unattached other Christian's would instantly become to me.
I.E. Shitty Christians is a problem for Christians, just like Shitty Muslims are a problem for Muslims. Personally I am willing to just let them kill each other off if they wish.
Indeed. Doing a "massive manhunt" for just one person? Insane! Unless there is actually method to the madness.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Have you ever heard about Northern Ireland? Apparently not.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.