Slashdot Mirror


Apple Devices To Reach Parity With Windows PCs In 2014

Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Horace Dediu writes at Aymco that in 2013 there were 18.8 times more Windows PCs sold than Macs, a reduction in the Windows advantage from about 19.8x in 2012. But the bigger story is how Apple's mobile platform including iOS devices has nearly reached the sales volume of Windows. In 2013 there were only 1.18 more Windows PCs than Apple devices sold. Odds are that in 2014 Apple and Windows will be at parity. Dediu says that the Windows advantage itself came from the way computing was purchased in the period of its ascent in the 1980s and 1990s 'when computing platform decisions were made first by companies then by developers and later by individuals who took their cues from what standards were already established. As these decisions created network effects, the cycle repeated and the majority platform strengthened.' There was concentration in decision making in the 80s so a platform could win by convincing 500 individuals who had the authority (as CIOs) to impose through fiat a standard on the centers of gravity of purchasing power. Today, with mobile products there are billions of decision makers. and the decision making process for buying computers, which began with large companies IT departments making decisions with multi-year horizons, has changed to billions of individuals making decisions with no horizons. Companies have become the laggards and individuals the early adopters of technology. 'Ultimately, it was the removal of the intermediary between buyer and beneficiary which dissolved Microsoft's power over the purchase decision,' concludes Dediu. 'The computer has become personal not just in the sense of how it's used but in the sense of how it's owned.' Finally, all the above is almost moot, given the rise of Android, something that is beating both Cupertino and Redmond alike."

511 comments

  1. Units sold or already out? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are tons of PC's in any corporation and home.

    The difference is they run XP still and are 8 years old and are therefore not counted. I do not believe there is an IPAD for every corporate employee.

    1. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Units sold. Of course, it only takes about 3-4 years of equalling sales to be equal in the latter stat too. Given that according to these stats we've been at 1.3x-1.1x for the past 3 years, we're getting really close to the tipping point for all units in use too.

    2. Re:Units sold or already out? by symbolset · · Score: 4, Insightful

      These are sales, not installed base. With sales at 1:1 it will take a long time for Apple to catch up on installed devices. At 3:1 or 4:1 though, Android will handle that by the end of this year.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    3. Re:Units sold or already out? by hawkingradiation · · Score: 1

      According to this article intrinsic support for XP will end this year. (And by intrinsic I mean OS updates that keep the OS secure from 0-day flaws-not just MSE). Even if they were being run for 2014-2001 = 13 years, the end is nigh. I agree with other commenters that a PC has a shorter life span than you imagine, with 3-4 years tending to be the norm and with 1:1 in sales for "Mac":"PC" they will eventually reach parity within that time. BTW my home has been Windows free since 2004 and Google requires a business case for any Windows PC.

      --
      Society use your Sciences
    4. Re:Units sold or already out? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      According to this article intrinsic support for XP will end this year. (And by intrinsic I mean OS updates that keep the OS secure from 0-day flaws-not just MSE). Even if they were being run for 2014-2001 = 13 years, the end is nigh. I agree with other commenters that a PC has a shorter life span than you imagine, with 3-4 years tending to be the norm and with 1:1 in sales for "Mac":"PC" they will eventually reach parity within that time. BTW my home has been Windows free since 2004 and Google requires a business case for any Windows PC.

      That was a little gripe as I am fighting tooth and nail in another thread in Slashdot from +5 nodded authors who say they run XP with a smile and many reactionaries are here which never were before Vista.

      But they do rn XP and still outnumber ipads

    5. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      At 3:1 or 4:1 though, Android will handle that by the end of this year.

      Android may have already passed Windows installed base. Gartner estimates there were 1.63 billion Windows PCs in the world at the end of 2013, and that around 850 million Android devices sold in the same year. Android sales in 2012 were just under 800 milion, up about 35% from 2011.

      The global average lifespan of a moble device is hard to find, but most estimates put it at around 22-25 months. Adding the numbers suggests Android has already passed Windows, or at the very least achieved parity with it.

      I'm not sure why we're discussing Apple in this context at all. I guess we just like also-rans here...

    6. Re:Units sold or already out? by Decker-Mage · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I'm not sure why we're discussing Apple in this context at all. I guess we just like also-rans here...

      Apple is to Betamax as Android is to VHS. [Unlikely I'm the first to posit that historical correlation.] As to the Android tablet vs. Windows Desktop, well that's small 'a' apples to oranges. The price may be comparable, the performance is nowhere the same. Yet. [And never will be which is why I'm trying all sorts of techniques to come up with seamless integration and dynamic loading across the platforms. Pipe dream, but still fun. For certain definitions of fun.]

      --
      "[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
    7. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True. And given the average lifecycle of a Apple device (2 years) and compared it to PC (4-10 years), the amount of devices in use should be really different than in the headline.

    8. Re: Units sold or already out? by hashtagdeals · · Score: 1

      I personally own 7 working apple devices, 4 non working devices. My parents own 7... And just recently we let about 5 go. If you we insinuating apple users don't have extra devices you may be wrong. Oh and us apple guys also save our apple boxes. How many windows boxes do you have?

    9. Re: Units sold or already out? by tleaf100 · · Score: 0

      ahh.but where does that leave me ?? i used philips v2000. i suppose i will stick to my old winmo 6Â5 htc hd2 (kitkat4Â4capable).

    10. Re:Units sold or already out? by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The interesting thing about Android is the amount of money involved. E.g. in the UK

      http://www.amazon.co.uk/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Mobile-Phones-Smartphones/zgbs/electronics/356496011

      Top selling phones seem to be between £158 (Samsung S3 mini) to £369 (Samsung S4). Now the lifetime is 24 months. So people spend £10 per month to keep their smartphone up to date. Most people don't do this explicitly, rather their telco sells them a plan for much more than £10 a month and gives them a 'free' upgrade every so often as a sweetener.

      Now for PCs

      http://www.amazon.co.uk/Best-Sellers-Computers-Accessories-Laptops/zgbs/computers/429886031/ref=zg_bs_nav_computers_1_computers

      Prices seem to be £300-400. On the other hand I bet the replacement time is longer. Many people mention 5 years. That's £5 or so a month. So they'd need to spend significantly more on laptops to get to the level of cash they spend on phones.

      So it's plausible that people spend more money on keeping their smartphone up to date than their PC.

      In fact that's quite plausible. Most people seem to have horrible, sluggish laptops but the very latest smartphone.

      Of course if they bought one of these every five years it would work out differently

      http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-13-inch-MacBook-2-5GHz-Graphics/dp/B008BEYEL8/ref=zg_bs_429886031_6

      #6 on the best seller list and £855. So that would be £14 per month assuming you replace it every five years. Incidentally this is one of the reasons why Mac OS taking over from Windows is not a good thing. Most people could get save money by buying one of the vast number of Windows machines compared to buying one of Apple's limited selection of admittedly very high quality machines. A small selection of high end machines means you probably need to spend extra cash to get all the features you need because of the cheapest machine lacks a few.

      Of course Microsoft are doing their best to fuck up Windows, so it's not that surprising that people are jumping ship for Mac OS. Windows OEMs must be pretty pissed off at this.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    11. Re:Units sold or already out? by oldlurker · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Apple is to Betamax as Android is to VHS.

      Interesting comparison, depending on what you mean by it. As someone there at the time, I think it is a myth that Betamax was a better product. It had somewhat better image quality, yes. But a video recorder that couldn't tape a full movie without you returning home from your dinner to turn the tape before leaving again is not a superior home video technology. Depending on whether you are positive or negative to Apple, this could be interpreted as "typical Apple, you are using it wrong" or very unlike the user-friendly Apple user experience.

      Another reason VHS won is more directly similar to Apple vs Android. VHS won because it was an open standard a myriad of manufactors freely adopted, Betamax wasn't - it was controlled and licensed at significant cost. Because of this obvious stronger consumer appeal, they got the content owners betting on them, including porn (another myth).

    12. Re:Units sold or already out? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      They did say sales not total units which are impossible to calculate anyway because you can't tell what is actually being used or what OS is on it. There are prbably millions of XP machines bought that are now linux machines.

    13. Re:Units sold or already out? by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm not sure why we're discussing Apple in this context at all. I guess we just like also-rans here...

      Because Apple is the choice of the cool crowd ... and geeks secretly love the cool crowd and want to be in it.

    14. Re:Units sold or already out? by MrMickS · · Score: 1

      True. And given the average lifecycle of a Apple device (2 years) and compared it to PC (4-10 years), the amount of devices in use should be really different than in the headline.

      Is that really the average life of an Apple device? Where are you getting your information from, or are you extrapolating based on contract length? Apple devices seem to last quite well and I know of many that are still running fine despite being 4 years old.

      --
      You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
    15. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      furthermore, 3 year old updated iDevice runs so slow it has to be replaced... 8 year old pc with winXP runs just fine.

    16. Re:Units sold or already out? by swb · · Score: 2

      I think Apple has done a pretty good job of avoiding most of the pitfalls of Betamax, though.

      There's a lot of software for iOS devices, whereas Betamax had a prerecorded content deficit that definitely helped VHS gain market share.

      It's also not easy map the "recording time" advantage to any specific deficiency in iOS hardware. About the closest you could come would be saying that some Android phones have bigger displays, but that's not a deficiency of all iOS devices if you include iPads and its not clear that most people feel handicapped because their iPhones don't have a screen as big as a Galaxy S.

    17. Re:Units sold or already out? by JanneM · · Score: 1

      Apple is to Betamax as Android is to VHS.

      There's no porn on Apple devices? You have to flip iPhones over to access the second half of the memory? Come on, let's stretch the analogy a little :)

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    18. Re: Units sold or already out? by Mabhatter · · Score: 1

      Because they are corporate owned.. Do they BUY SOFTWARE for this PCs?

      That is the real metric everybody cares about... That I have a fleet of windows PCs doesn't matter if the only money I spend is on AS400 apps from 15 years ago. There are probably close to the same numbers of Windows 8/8.1 and iOS 6/7 devices out there... And Windows users dont BUY SOFTWARE AND MEDIA, they keep what they bought years ago or pirate. They might give $200 to Microsoft or Adobe, but the shelves of small developer software are pretty bare. LOTS of iOS users buy Apps, games, books, and media thru the App Store. Sure it's $3-5 at a time, but the library of "must have" iOS apps that pry a few bucks from INDIVIDUAL users is greater than the 4-5 "big apps" like Office and Adobe that are the only survivors of the heady Windows "developers, developers, developers" days.

    19. Re:Units sold or already out? by BigZee · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I have to say, I'm always surprised that people complain about Betamax tape length. I had both 3 and 4 hour tapes and I expect that if Sony had continue development, I would have had LP and even EP modes. Whilst I do realize that very early on there was a length issue, this was not the case for most of the life of the product.

      With respect to VHS being 'open', that wasn't the case either. I'm pretty certain that every VHS recorder sold included a license back to JVC. Now, it's true there were far more manufacturers of VHS recorders but Sony was not the only company to produce Betamax machines. Sanyo and Telefunken also produced them and there are probably others I'm not aware of.

      There are far too many myths regarding this sort of thing, each markets had different issues. The practical reality was that Betamax probably was a better product in many respects, certainly the majority of Sony machines were built as premium products. Also, Betamax generally had features before they appeared on VHS (shuttle search, peep search HiFi - not just stereo - sound). However, none of these were enough of a factor in it becoming dominant. VHS, with more manufacturers was often a product you could find cheaper and still had enough features. Although you can have a long argument about picture and sound quality, if Betamax was better, it wasn't enough to make enough people choose that product.

    20. Re:Units sold or already out? by dreamchaser · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most Android devices allow you to expand the storage via SD or USB. With iOS devices you get what you get. That's not a perfect analogy to recording time, but it's a serious drawback IMO.

    21. Re:Units sold or already out? by necro81 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I used a Gen1 iPhone for over three years before upgrading to an iPhone 4, which I am still using 3+ years later.

      I used a 12" powerbook for 4 years before replacing it with a 15" macbook pro, which I'm still using as my primary home machine 6 years later. Over a similar timeframe, I've gone through about 5 computers at work.

    22. Re:Units sold or already out? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      The iPhone has become like jeans and a shirt. Middle aged guys trying to look young and cool.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    23. Re:Units sold or already out? by oldlurker · · Score: 1

      I have to say, I'm always surprised that people complain about Betamax tape length. I had both 3 and 4 hour tapes and I expect that if Sony had continue development, I would have had LP and even EP modes. Whilst I do realize that very early on there was a length issue, this was not the case for most of the life of the product.

      I think by then it was too late, VHS market momentum was too great - economy of scale and content support. Recording/play time was clearly a major difference between the standards in crucial momentum building phase. VHS had 2 hours, Betamax had only 1 hour.
      I remember many of us having 120 minute VHS (later 240m) and a few having 60 minute Betamax (later 120m) at the time home video recording really took off (also, first Betamax half speed long play alternatives reduced the image quality advantage)

      With respect to VHS being 'open', that wasn't the case either. I'm pretty certain that every VHS recorder sold included a license back to JVC.

      Not according to Wikipedia. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHS: "JVC believed that an open standard, with the format shared among competitors without licensing the technology, was better for the consumer. ". If this is wrong and there was a need for some form of licensing it was clearly very broadly and cheaply offered.

    24. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Android isn't even counted as sales, it's counted as "shipped", there's likely billions of these things lying in warehouses, landfills, peoples garages, etc.

      A Desktop PC has a lifespan of 7 years and can continue to be used as long as the parts are still being made or there are adapters/expansion cards. A mobile device has a lifespan of 18 months max. Thank 2 and 3 year contracts in some countries basically make it mandatory to suffer with useless android devices or feature phones to get a "free" phone. We should not be applauding this.

      A desktop PC (not a laptop) has a variable lifetime. If you buy it when the technology just shifted, you can effectively use it till the next shift, which (which is DDR4/Socket 2011 on the Intel platform). If you have a Pentium 3 from 1999, you can still use the current version of Windows XP on it. You can't install Vista or 7 on it (or you could try, but there will be no drivers since the AGP video card and ISA/PCI hardware will be unsupported.) My P3, P4, C2D and i7 All work. Which one do I use? the i7, the rest remain off. A 15 year old computer even though it can run Windows XP, can barely run any current web browser. An iPhone or or iPad from the last 3 years is more powerful than any of the machines that came with Windows XP.

      A Laptop however has a lifespan of 10 years if you somehow manage to replace the battery during it's lifespan, otherwise it's maybe good for 3-4 years for battery operation, and the rest of the lifespan must be plugged in.

      A phone and a tablet... well tablets haven't been around long enough yet, but iOS devices appear to have a solid 3 year lifespan (Android phones are frequently obsolete the second they are sold, which is serious problem, when users are tied to contracts.)

      SmartTV's (GoogleTV/Android) so far don't even have a 1 year lifespan. This is very troubling because televisions are basically good until they are too dim to continue use. Most televisions prior to LCD's could be used for more than 20 years up until Digital broadcasts started. LCD televisions however will only last about 10 years if it's a "dumb" device, and even less if it's a smart device, because nobody wants to replace their TV every 18 months.

    25. Re:Units sold or already out? by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      The B-II tape speed that doubled the recording time of a L500 tape to two hours didn't appear in machines until the late 70s. The longer length L750 tapes followed. Once LP and EP speed VHS machines and longer length tapes appeared, Betamax couldn't compete with recording time. The cassettes were physically smaller and couldn't hold as much tape as a VHS cassette could.

    26. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No.

    27. Re:Units sold or already out? by Goody · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Jeans and a shirt is a good analogy. It's comfortable and it just works. I'm almost middle aged and I wear jeans and a shirt because that's what I've always worn outside of work, not to look young and cool. It's basically the same reason I use an iPhone. It just works, reliably. It seems the Android guys are continually worried about OS upgrades, shiny new phone models, and what Apple is or isn't doing. iPhone users meanwhile are just using their phones.

      --
      Tired of being "punished" by the Slashdot $rtbl since 2002. I'm now over at http://soylentnews.org/ .
    28. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Beta certainly had less record length, from memory I want to say 3 hours in the slowest (lowest quality) mode vs about an hour in the fastest mode. VS the 8 hours from VHS, there was no comparison.

      It was also an objectively better image, with more lines of resolution and much less issue with tracking.

      However, I have never once heard of having to turn a Beta cassette over, and I had some of the very earliest 2-box recorders.

    29. Re:Units sold or already out? by gx5000 · · Score: 1

      They're also comparing apples and oranges.....
      "Devices" aren't PC's or solid platforms.....
      The day the pad, phone or tablet is an actual workhorse is the day it can go one on one with the Windows PC.

      --
      End of Line.
    30. Re:Units sold or already out? by gx5000 · · Score: 1

      Most of our PC's have auto update off and we choose what third party software to run when we discover 0 day bugs (that we usually solve on our own). This whole phone line to the mothership approach to OS's has to stop, but it won't with that cloud over our heads. It's almost time for me to retire and go fix PC's and servers in my spare time, since I can see the coming storm...

      --
      End of Line.
    31. Re:Units sold or already out? by beanpoppa · · Score: 1

      I'd say 2 years is probably a good estimate. Most people replace their iPhone after 2 years. Some of them will put their old phones in a drawer and forget about them, while others will give them to their kids (as a phone with service, or as a WiFi only iPod), while others will trade-in or sell their old phone which will keep it in circulation even longer. That would make the average life longer than 2 years, but 25% of iPhones don't even make it to 2 years.

    32. Re:Units sold or already out? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's only Apple fans on Slashdot who go on endlessly about updates, and in fact Android users get most updates via apps rather than OS version number bumps.

      In actual fact if that's what you care about your best bet is a Nexus phone or Play edition. You get prompt updates from Google, and crucially they stop doing OS updates when your device is no longer fast enough to run them. From the on you get feature updates via apps. Unlike the iPhone you don't have your device made unusable slow after a few years to encourage you to upgrade.

      Since Nexus devices are so much cheaper you can buy the latest one more often too, so you get a hardware update as well as software.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    33. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you meant "Apple is to Android as Betamax is to VHS"

    34. Re:Units sold or already out? by riis138 · · Score: 1

      I use a Windows phone for the same reason. That, and the fact its the only mobile operating system without a built in backdoor for CarrierIQ

      --
      Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan
    35. Re:Units sold or already out? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      I wonder what the typical lifespan of each type of device is? I know I tend to keep PCs around for 5-6 years, and cell phones/tablets change out every 1-2 years...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    36. Re:Units sold or already out? by Fishchip · · Score: 1

      Bro, do you even geek?

    37. Re: Units sold or already out? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      You seriously couldn't be more wrong. Microsoft alone does $70b a year. Adobe does about $16b. Total revenue for business applications is over $400b / year. The Apple app store is $10b.

      App store has growth but in 2014 they still aren't even close. Hardware revenues are a different story.

    38. Re:Units sold or already out? by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      You are dead on. This article is basically apple marketing and posturing.

    39. Re:Units sold or already out? by Fishchip · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And this is still the overarching problem with this whole article. It's Apple mobile devices vs Windows PCs. Different products, different lifecycles. Of course you're going to have more sales when you're replacing your device three or four times as often. I need a picture of Inigo Montoya telling people 'parity' doesn't mean what they think it means (or rather, in this context, what they want it to mean).

    40. Re:Units sold or already out? by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Accept if the lifespan is 22-25 months those 800M units in 2012 have all broke and a big part of the 850M 2013 sales would have been replacements. No doubt at some point Android or iOS will pass Windows but I don't think that will mean that people will stop working with windows devices. They'll just have a tablet, a cellphone or two etc that are running something else.

      What annoys me most about this trend is the applification of everything. I don't need "an app for that". I need an app for that, and that and that. I use Office because I can't be bothered giving the free options a try every couple years to see if they've caught up (and I can be sure that what I learn to do at home will work at work vs learn Open Office tricks then relearn the same thing on a different platform). The problem is the trend of very small task apps making you have dozens of applications all for one particular piece of your organizational/communication puzzle. All slightly different UI choices, storing data in different proprietary formats, generally not communicating to one another well etc. I don't want to be bothered finding all the sub parts of a particular problem then investigating apps that fit that niche (and even worse since the app developers might have partitioned the domain differently than my desired workflow). Give me a suite that does a large subset of my problem. You probably won't see that on iOS or Android any time soon.

      It is also a world where you are either expected to give away your app or make such small money that 90% of people can't live off of their development work for apps alone (saw a talk recently that estimated something like the average iOS app makes $8500/yr, that is great if I can pound that out in a month but not enough for me to bother continued support other than because I really dig the project). Not to mention the distribution is hugely scewed by the few huge successes that the median developer is making $1000.

    41. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NSA.

    42. Re:Units sold or already out? by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      ...but 25% of iPhones don't even make it to 2 years [squaretrade.com].

      I thought squaretrade repairs these phones? So really the number would be "25% are getting some repair within two years", and then they live on.

      Apple also has a nice "out of warranty" repair program: If your phone breaks long out of warranty, as long as it is in one piece Apple will replace it with an identical refurbished phone for about half the price of a basic new one. According to posts elsewhere, there seem to be people taking advantage of this by buying broken phones very cheap and replacing them with refurbished ones.

    43. Re:Units sold or already out? by the_B0fh · · Score: 1, Interesting

      And the hundreds of millions of iOS users don't see that as a problem, and neither do Nexus and some of the Android users.

      What was your point again?

    44. Re: Units sold or already out? by iamhassi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But the google nexus, which many people believe is the best android smartphone because it's being offered by google themselves, does not offer expandable storage and only offers a maximum of 32gb compared to iPhone's 64gb. Also many android smartphones don't offer storage that would surpass 64gb even with maxing out the external storage.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    45. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Most Android devices allow you to expand the storage via SD or USB. With iOS devices you get what you get. That's not a perfect analogy to recording time, but it's a serious drawback IMO.

      IMO is just that. According to sales results, that is irrelevant.

    46. Re: Units sold or already out? by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      I too used Philips v2000, and I owned a Winmo5 device.

      They are not even remotely comparable:

      The Philips machine did everything I wanted (dont watch Hollywood movies, never did)

      The Winmo5 device never really worked properly for 24 consecutive hours.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    47. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Except that most of the popular high end Android devices in the last 18 months have moved from external storage as an option... but don't let that fact get in the way of determining what the consumer does and doesn't care about as far as features.

    48. Re:Units sold or already out? by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      I still use a PowerBook G4 Titanium on a network rack as a machine for WireShark, web consoles, and usb-to-serial terminal for switches and routers. It sits in a rack mounted drawer, sleeping, until I need to open the lid and do something. I don't need more than a 12-year-old laptop to do that, and it still works.

      That laptop has been to the brink and back, and still works just fine except for a slight discoloration of the backlight in the screen from age.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    49. Re:Units sold or already out? by sudden.zero · · Score: 1

      This is very true. Until this year every PC in our entire company of 50,000+ employees was running Windows XP SP3! We have just now started upgrading to Windows 7 and there are no future plans to upgrade to Windows 8 or any flavor of it with that stupid Metro interface! (My PC is not a Tablet)

    50. Re:Units sold or already out? by fast+turtle · · Score: 1

      the avg 22-25 month life span of a mobile device is U.S. only as most of your phones are on 2 year (24 month) contracts and people replace em at the end. Creates lots of unneeded E-waste and the god damn carriers don't bother with bug/security fixes after they've created the fucking things. Worthless PoS's in my book. I've got a pair of Samsung 4930 phones that still work better then most of the crap being pushed today (Yes they're digital) with far better battery life and range because of the pull out antenna's plus they're over a decade old but work fine as a fucking phone because that's all they are.

      --
      Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
    51. Re:Units sold or already out? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      I used a 12" powerbook for 4 years before replacing it with a 15" macbook pro, which I'm still using as my primary home machine 6 years later. Over a similar timeframe, I've gone through about 5 computers at work.

      My mum used the same Windows 98 PC from 1998 to 2011. 12 years.

      The only reason she upgraded was because I bought a bargain basement Windows 7 machine from a box retailer as a Christmas gift. I gave her my old 22" monitor in place of the 18" it came with, an 18" fits better on my crash cart anyway.

      You see, the thing is my mother doesn't do anything other than read email and use farmbook. Thats it, she didn't see a need to upgrade because her current PC did everything she needed despite being 12 years old. So the longevity of a computer is really up to the user. If you dont use it for anything strenuous, there's no impetus to upgrade.

      I used a Gen1 iPhone for over three years before upgrading to an iPhone 4, which I am still using 3+ years later.

      Going back to my mum, she used a Nokia brick since 2005 when she first got a phone and that was a hand me down from my dad. She got an Iphone 4s they year they were released and she's had 3 since because they've all broken. I try to convince her to get a more durable phone but she's stuck in the Apple trap.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    52. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I wish my Nexus 7 had expandable storage.

    53. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With IOS I don't have to increase the memory because I can't.
      With IOS I don't have to choose where my music library comes from because I can't.
      With IOS I don't have to choose where I get my apps because I can't.
      With IOS I don't have to choose how I connect to my other media devices because I can't.
      etc...
      The convenience of IOS is unmatched by any other platform. My productivity increases 10X because I don't waste my time making choices.

    54. Re:Units sold or already out? by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure why we're discussing Apple in this context at all. I guess we just like also-rans here...

      Because Apple is the choice of the cool crowd ... and geeks secretly love the cool crowd and want to be in it.

      Yeesh, if that's the case, I need to turn in my geek card. Overpriced shiny stuff for geeks who think they'll look like hipsters if they shave their pimply heads and carry an iphone in their leather trench coat while they drink absurdly expensive coffee drinks. There, fixed if for you.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    55. Re:Units sold or already out? by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      The iPhone has become like jeans and a shirt. Middle aged guys trying to look young and cool.

      And failing.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    56. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used a Gen1 iPhone for over three years before upgrading to an iPhone 4, which I am still using 3+ years later.
        I used a 12" powerbook for 4 years before replacing it with a 15" macbook pro, which I'm still using as my primary home machine 6 years later. Over a similar timeframe, I've gone through about 5 computers at work.

      Amazing post. Totally worthy of the +4 Informative!

    57. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but lacking a card slot precludes a device from being considered "high end".

    58. Re: Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the google nexus, which many people believe is the best android smartphone because it's being offered by google themselves, does not offer expandable storage and only offers a maximum of 32gb compared to iPhone's 64gb. Also many android smartphones don't offer storage that would surpass 64gb even with maxing out the external storage.

      Who in the 9 hells totes the Nexus as the best Android device?

    59. Re: Units sold or already out? by burningcpu · · Score: 1

      The cost is also what, 1/3 as much for the Nexus versus IPhone?

    60. Re:Units sold or already out? by jedidiah · · Score: 0

      > Units sold. Of course, it only takes about 3-4 years of equalling sales to be equal in the latter stat too.

      Assuming you actually keep any of those old tablets. Do you want to use an iPad 1? Really. Be honest now.

      Mobile devices today see the kind of churn PCs had in the 90s. A device that is from last year may seem woefully out of date. Never mind 4 years ago.

      ARM devices go through multiple generations of hardware and still can't manage to outdo a trailing edge PC that is older than all of them.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    61. Re:Units sold or already out? by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The beauty of a free market is that there isn't "the consumer".

      This isn't some centrally planned economy we're talking about. Everyone is free to participate. No one is going to leave money on the table if they are able. Every niche will be pandered too.

      There will be someone to cater to all of the choices you try to sneer at.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    62. Re:Units sold or already out? by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      If this is wrong and there was a need for some form of licensing it was clearly very broadly and cheaply offered.

      VHS wasn't "open" in the sense we think of it, manufacturers still required a license from JVC, but JVC made a point of charging licensees only token royalties, and JVC put a lot of effort into getting other manufacturers into the pool, whereas Sony had the idea that they'd be able to develop and then milk a monopoly.

      FD. I am a Sony employee.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    63. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, all the android devices I've looked at with any kind of interest (nexus) lack removable batteries and SD slots.

    64. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The resale value (as a % of the original cost) of a mid to high level 2 year old handset has, historically at least, been much higher than a 5 year old low end PC of (roughly) comparable original cost, though you need to have a good idea of which one to buy at the time and not just take the first thing offered.

      I used to fund 12 months of a 24 month contract by simply unlocking and selling my old handset on eBay, though I imagine the Nexus 4 clearance prices and handsets like the Moto G are killing off the value of used handsets, at least for Android.

      Different rules may apply to old Apple kit (not my cup of tea - I like the perceived material and build quality but I don't feel at home with iOS).

    65. Re:Units sold or already out? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      40% flamebait, 30% troll. I must have pissed off some fanboys.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    66. Re: Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except for the ability to connect a USB OTG cable and a USB thumb drive, or SD card reader with SD card through it's standard mini-USB port.

    67. Re:Units sold or already out? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Although you can have a long argument about picture and sound quality, if Betamax was better, it wasn't enough to make enough people choose that product.

      The picture quality of Betamax was significantly better. The problem was most people had crappy TVs back then. It wasn't like today where all displays are digital so capable of the same resolution. TVs were analog, and the build quality directly affected phosphor size, electron beam control, and dot width. When I tested both formats on a high-end Sony monitor at a recording studio, the quality difference was obvious. But on my family's home TV, not so much. By the time analog TV quality improved to where Betamax was obviously better on every new home TV, VHS had already won (and in fact improved so the difference wasn't quite so obvious anymore).

      It's true though that a substantial number of people didn't care about picture quality. They had no problem recording football games on VHS in SLP mode (6 hours, later 8 hours). The picture looked like a 240p Youtube video with extreme compression artifacts, but recording the entire game was more important than picture quality to these folks.

      Sound-wise, I think VHS was better? I vaguely remember some audiophiles were recording their music onto VHS because it was superior to the audio tape formats.

    68. Re: Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Compare web usage from iOS vs Android devices. Sure are a lot of Android devices not being used on the Internet.

    69. Re:Units sold or already out? by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      What the heck do you guys put on your phones to need more than 64GB? I have an Windows phone running on the same hardware as the S3 so I can expand but I don't see the need. Either people are too lazy to plan or don't know how to. I've never needed more than 64GB. If I put my whole music collection then maybe but why do that when you only listen to 10% of it.

      As for movies, maybe you younger users out there don't mind watching a movie on a small display but I can assure you that I don't enjoy the experience.

    70. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You get prompt updates from Google, and crucially they stop doing OS updates when your device is no longer fast enough to run them

      How the hell is a device not supporting a version a good thing?

      Also, last few versions were claimed to have performance improvements for lower end devices.

      4.1 - "Smoother user interface"
      4.1.2 - "Bug fixes and performance enhancements"
      4.3 - "Filesystem write performance improvement by running fstrim command while device is idle"...."Many security enhancements, performance enhancements"
      4.4 - "Optimizations for performance on devices with lower specifications"

      So it should be a no-brainer to update to them, right? I think... maybe...nevermind, fuck it. Never going to change anyone's mind.

    71. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Math not your strong suit, eh?

    72. Re:Units sold or already out? by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      Well it's all around a strange comparison because Microsoft also makes Phones, it used to make MP3 players, it also makes the Xbox which runs on windows and there are tons of embedded windows devices that aren't "PCs". So if we're comparing Microsoft to Apple then Windows phone should be included as should Xbox etc.

    73. Re:Units sold or already out? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Of course Microsoft are doing their best to fuck up Windows, so it's not that surprising that people are jumping ship for Mac OS. Windows OEMs must be pretty pissed off at this.

      Mac sales are actually pretty flat. It just isn't falling as fast as PC sales are. The illusion that people are switching to Macs is generated from the inappropriate use of percentage market share in this context. As a percentage, the share of Macs sold is increasing, even though the unit sales are flat.

      Which makes sense if you recall that Macs are generally higher-priced, higher-quality computers which people keep for a longer time. PCs were generally cheap devices people replaced more frequently. But now that processor speed requirements have plateaued, there is no longer a compelling reason to upgrade every 2-3 years and people are keeping their PCs longer like Mac users.

    74. Re:Units sold or already out? by jjbenz · · Score: 1

      yeah, 2-3 years seems right to me. I had an iPod that I wasn't able to update after about 2 years since ios thought the hardware was too old. We're on the 4th generation of iPods in a little less than 4 years. I don't think the 1st gen iPads can be updated to ios7.

    75. Re:Units sold or already out? by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      Interesting number and I believe them. Cell phones are often broken, lost, stolen or simply upgraded well before the 3 year plan is over. This creates a huge hardware life cycle. Something the PC market doesn't have (except maybe for low end laptops)

      I think no matter how poorly Mac or Windows do, the phone fills all computer requirements for MANY users today. The need for a desktop and even laptop PC diminishes as providers adapt to user needs.

    76. Re:Units sold or already out? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Not to mention how many of those first gen iPhones and iPads are already rotting in a drawer somewhere because they won't run the latest and greatest and are therefor worthless to their owner?

      The Apple fans can mod me down but working here at the shop i talk to a LOT of iPhone and iPad owners and ya know what? A hell of a lot of the appeal is to be seen with it, its fashion like Air Jordans. notice that the only other thing folks line up days in advance for ARE the Air sneakers because like the Jordans its just not hip to have last years model.

      Anyway what these articles always fail to mention is whether they are counting devices sold or devices still being used because when we are talking mobile? We are talking disposable. Between my cousins and my aunt there is 5 first and second gen iPhones sitting in sock drawers because they aren't hip, between me and dad there is another 4 Android 1 and 2 phones, in a way its a lot like the PC during the Mhz wars where what you used last year is on the trash heap this year. With Windows its the opposite, that 2K7 C2Q will do everything a 2014 Core i7 will do so there is no reason to replace every other year like with the phones.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    77. Re:Units sold or already out? by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 1

      True but ~50M XBox 360's is a couple quarters of iPhone sales. Relative market size the only thing MS has to compare with iOS or Android is windows. Consoles or windows phone are just relatively a niche market.

    78. Re:Units sold or already out? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      It's only Apple fans on Slashdot who go on endlessly about updates, and in fact Android users get most updates via apps rather than OS version number bumps.

      Ha ha! What a pathetic excuse for the fact that Android users don't tend to get OS updates. You sir, are an apologist.

    79. Re:Units sold or already out? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      What's this? Immature little boys thinking they own jeans and t-shirts? We were wearing them since before your were a twinkle in your daddy's eye.

      Come back and try and be cool when you invent something of your own.

    80. Re:Units sold or already out? by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Geeze, calm down. I'm way over 40.

      Not to say anything about jeans and t-shirt ownership, although little boys can have black death metal t-shirts and long leather trench coats in the summer. Just saying that middle aged people trying to look young and cool is probably not going to end well.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    81. Re:Units sold or already out? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I'm way over 40.

      Then you should know better. People are free to wear whatever clothes they feel comfortable in. Jeans and t-shirts are comfortable and easy casual work-wear. There's no age limit on them.

    82. Re:Units sold or already out? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      You're the biggest fanboy here.

    83. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another reason VHS won is more directly similar to Apple vs Android. VHS won because it was an open standard a myriad of manufactors freely adopted, Betamax wasn't - it was controlled and licensed at significant cost. Because of this obvious stronger consumer appeal, they got the content owners betting on them, including porn (another myth).
      Ok, and I'll add another two (2) examples to reinforce this, both from the world of computers. Early in the personal computer era, "IBM Compatible" was a buzz word. If the clone wasn't, then people didn't buy it. IBM tried to sue Phoenix because their BIOS was so close. They lost. Then IBM tried to introduce a new bus architecture: MicroChannel(tm). It was proprietary and expensive. Clone makers would have to buy or die: and the licenses were per machine and very expensive. The clone makers created the PCI architecture, and like Beta in the tape wars, Microchannel died on the vine. A second example is RAMBUS memory. Open standards win, closed greedy vendors deserve to die. Hello Apple, Hello Microsoft, this means you.

    84. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple is to Betamax as VHS is to Android as Windows is to. . .

      Is there anyone, in any field, who gets all or even most of their work done on an iPad or Android tablet? Can we stop comparing Apples and bulldozers here? Saying apple or android is compromising PC sales is like saying the latest Japanese sportscar's success spells the death of Freightliner.

      The installed base of PCs is going to get smaller, as the people who bought PCs just to 'get on the internet' switch to tablets. But for those of us who use real software to cdo real work. . . there's nothing in the running but Windows. No task makes a Mac make sense (not even video editing). If you use Office, there's not an app for that, there's an app to extend that. If you do media production, or programming, or engineering? There's no other alternative. Which is not so bad, since, whether we like to admit it, windows has come a long way.

      But phones are disposable,while PCs last longer with every product cycle. It makes sense to invest in high quality PC hardware. The market changes will see the whithering of weak players. Serious workstation makers probably have less to fear (Lenovo), unless they got themselves all tangled in the consumer market and are now being abused in Wall Street for declining revenue (Dell). Even though their core business remains solid, i.e. machines that are used to do work.

    85. Re:Units sold or already out? by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      I predict that no one will every need more than 64 GB.

    86. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Skinny jeans and a hip slogan tee shirt.

    87. Re:Units sold or already out? by NoZart · · Score: 1

      i would love to live in a country where iphone users just use their iphones. Where i live, they cant stop droning about how awesome iphones are (and per weird proxy how awesome they as users are because they use it).

    88. Re:Units sold or already out? by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      ...except I don't try to look young and cool by carrying an iphone.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    89. Re:Units sold or already out? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Most Android devices allow you to expand the storage via SD or USB. With iOS devices you get what you get. That's not a perfect analogy to recording time, but it's a serious drawback IMO.

      Wow, what bad analogies we all weave trying to compare Apple and Windows to Beta and VHS. This was a non-starter from the beginning.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    90. Re:Units sold or already out? by volmtech · · Score: 1

      A laptop is not a phone but a smartphone is also a computer in an easily transported size. Older, non tech adapt people like smartphones because even an Android phone "just works". My 47 year old wife hates her six year old windows laptop but loves the Samsung S2 I got her. $200 from Virgin Mobile, $35 a month for unlimited text and data. She can Facebook and text our kids to her hearts content without bothering me, and it's a good phone.

    91. Re: Units sold or already out? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2, Informative

      The cost is also what, 1/3 as much for the Nexus versus IPhone?

      Nexus 5 from $349 According to Google site

      IPhone 5C No Contract - 16 gb $549.

      I see best buy has unlocked Nexus 5's for 499.

      Been trying to work 1/3rd the price out of that, no luck.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    92. Re:Units sold or already out? by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      Assuming you actually keep any of those old tablets. Do you want to use an iPad 1? Really. Be honest now.

      Sure, why not? I have an original iPod Touch I still use daily.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    93. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for not being a grammar Nazi.

    94. Re: Units sold or already out? by pho3nixtar · · Score: 1

      Maybe choice was his point? Storage capacity was a key deciding factor for me when I decided "Android or iPhone". I rather enjoy not chewing up my monthly data with Spotify/Pandora/YouTube because I don't have enough storage space for my music/movies/videos. Fuck "the cloud", I'll keep my stuff on the ground with me.

    95. Re:Units sold or already out? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      What a dumb thing to say. As I said, you should know better at your age.

    96. Re: Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The arm device is unencumbered by the crappy software that runs on PCs. It doesn't need to be as powerful .

    97. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unlike most respectable older folks who go topless with dockers.

    98. Re:Units sold or already out? by Decker-Mage · · Score: 1

      It isn't open standards, it's that someone is attempting to extract monopoly rents (revenue) from the market using IP; expensive IP at that. Another player enters the market using "good enough" capabilities at a much lower price and whooosh....

      --
      "[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
    99. Re:Units sold or already out? by nobodie · · Score: 1

      So, you agree with the Betamax=Apple comparison just for different reasons. I like how this is building. What I find interesting is that for the most important emerging markets (like Africa, India, Central Asia and South America) Apple is the Ferrari versus the Ford that is Windows and Android. You might wnt the prestige of the Ferrari, but the reality is a Ford. (for those who prefer car comparisons)

      Actually, the only reason I am posting is that it has bothered me for years that every Apple mention in American media bases itself on data from the 300 million count American population. Yes it is an American company, the articles are being read by Americans, but without using world-wide data you are in a filter bubble that says that Apple is an important player in the world market. It is, outside the US, not an important player except in the way that Ferrari is an important name in cars: a symbol of something unattainable asnd ultimately useless for the work and interests of the vast majority of the population of the world.

      Just last week somebody sent me a spreadsheet in the .numbers format. They were shocked (shocked I say) that I couldn't read it. Checking the format I discover it is the Apple spreadsheet format. I wrote back and said to send it to me as a PDF. They didn't know how. "Everybody else can read it." Needless to say they live in a rich little island where they don't normally have to interact with the plebes. That is the Apple world, and the Apple world view.

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
    100. Re:Units sold or already out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's only Apple fans on Slashdot who go on endlessly about updates, and in fact Android users get most updates via apps rather than OS version number bumps.

      Most Android users can't get "updates via apps" because they can't access Google Play.

    101. Re:Units sold or already out? by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      I never said that. Considering the fact that the average life of the product is currently 2 years and most devices offer between 16 and 64gb. Some with expansion slots that allow an extra 64GB max. My point is that why do you need more at the present time. It's a legitimate question.

    102. Re:Units sold or already out? by smash · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure why we're discussing Apple in this context at all. I guess we just like also-rans here...

      Because apple actually have a fairly unified platform, and a userbase that for the most part, actually makes use of many of the features of said platform.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    103. Re:Units sold or already out? by smash · · Score: 1

      This is one of those things that some people just don't get. A lot of people don't care about making choices if they're fairly irrelevant in the scheme of things. I'm in the same boat. If it actually makes any real difference to the things I can do, sure, I'll gladly make a choice - but if it is philosophical stuff I really don't care about, I'm really not interested.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    104. Re:Units sold or already out? by smash · · Score: 1

      Neither do I. I have one because it does things and doesn't piss me off. I tried an HTC One recently, and in those 2 weeks I had it, dealt with more bugs and annoying shit like apps that didn't scale to the screen than I have dealt with in the rest of my Apple and Microsoft software combined since 2008.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    105. Re:Units sold or already out? by smash · · Score: 1

      So if their kids are using it, the device is considered "dead"?

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    106. Re:Units sold or already out? by smash · · Score: 1

      Does it not play music any more?

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    107. Re:Units sold or already out? by smash · · Score: 1

      Uh... what? Still using my iPhone 4-S from 2011 here. Still using my early 2011 MBP 15" and battery capacity is still 91%. If/when the battery dies, I'll replace it. Until 1-2 more generations of CPU come out from intel, there's probably not much point upgrading, the machine still smokes (2.2Ghz sandy bridge quad), and it can handle 16 GB of RAM which is plenty.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  2. Billions of Androids by symbolset · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let Apple and Microsoft fight over who is a distant number 2. When sales are 3x, the installed base converts pretty quickly.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re: Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nope. Not in uk.

    2. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so only in 80% of the world that android wins, good thing you clarified that dude.

    3. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      so only in 80% of the world that android wins, good thing you clarified that dude.

      80% of the world where people don't own PCs personally and a smartphone is their only personal connection to the internet. And the 80% of the world where most of the people are financially forced to go for the lowest priced option. In the 20% of the world where people generally have the financial circumstances to be able to have a choice in the matter, then its close with respect to sales. However in actual usage iOS is far ahead of Android. This is probably due to tablets. Android seriously lags when one only looks at tablets.

    4. Re:Billions of Androids by E-Rock · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wins what? I never understand why people pick a tribe and then pray for the destruction of their foes.

      We only win when there are multiple viable choices available. Once someone 'wins' their focus turns to consolidation and not to innovation.

    5. Re:Billions of Androids by tlhIngan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Let Apple and Microsoft fight over who is a distant number 2. When sales are 3x, the installed base converts pretty quickly.

      Not really.

      Because while Androids outsell Apple 4:1 or more, there's a very strange thing going on. Mobile web traffic has iOS using TWICE the amount of data over Android. Or, put another way, 1 iOS user consumes as much data as 8 Android users.

      On the spending front, it's about 1:1 iOS:Android - i.e., for every iOS user that buys stuff online, 1 Android user buys stuff online. And even with that, iOS users spend more.

      And finally, advertisers apparently prefer iOS users - willing to pay up to twice as much per impression to an iOS user than an Android user.

      I don't know what the vast majority of Android users are doing, but it certainly isn't contributing to the ecosystem. It would be more like Mac and PCs, except it appears the vast majority of PCs were used only to play Solitaire as their sole function - leaving the few Mac users being ones to actually use their computers. Then again, the vast majority of PCs are probably used in a similar fashion - surf the web, send email, do facebook, shut down PC....

      Of course, given that most Androids are crap-droids that people are buying to replace their featurephones, I guess it makes sense - the phones sell, but they're only used to talk and text. No web browsing.

      Makes you wonder, when reports of the average cellphone bill being close to $150, that most people are really paying for plans they're not using. They see shiny Android, they may browse the web the first few days, then boom, the phone's just a phone.

      Even Samsung's flagship phones barely crack 10% of the Android market, and Samsung owns about 90% of the Android phones out there, so for every S4, they sell 8 other "budget class" Android phones.

      OTOH, the good news is, developers don't have to worry about those phones - most users will probably access the Play store once or twice, then forget about it. Google's metrics only measure the last 3 or 4 weeks, so the vast majority of phones reported would be active users (the ones who probably bought an Android phone to use as a smartphone, and not a fancier featurephone that cost less).

    6. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We only win when there are multiple viable choices available.

      I don't mind that there are so many Linux and *BSD OSs, because they are viable choices which benefit the development of operating systems as a whole. The software produced by Microsoft and Apple hinder the development of high quality software and incorporation of research results into mainstream products. They are not sufficiently viable.

    7. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I too was thinking that this parity can only be important for Apple and MS (and the people with vested interrests in those companies. Possibly a handfull of other manufactures too (Dell springs to mind)) for the rest of us it is really irrelevant as both options are well-supported and anyone who picks their tools from a "does-the-job" perspective (and not a political/religious reason) is just lucky to have more choice than we used to.

      And I agree that if one manufacturer wins, the rest of us have lost (just look at the lockin of the Windows world in the early 90s, something we are still suffering under the aftermath of - it was probably as bad on the apple-side, but i have always been a PC guy - simply because that was what i knew)

    8. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that in the US and Europe, iOS still outsells android. It's only in the east that Android (massively) outsells iOS.

      You must not live or have visited Europe.

    9. Re:Billions of Androids by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Wins what? I never understand why people pick a tribe and then pray for the destruction of their foes.

      You're not alone.

    10. Re:Billions of Androids by Bert64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The mobile web traffic stat ties in with the budget handset stat... Apple only target the high end, so their customers generally have more money to spend on data service and other things in general. This means they use the service more, buy more apps and are better targets for advertisers.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    11. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      I'm in the US and you couldn't pay me to take an iPhone... well, ok, if you paid me and it was a current model, I'd probably take it, and then sell it to someone for a profit, I'm not stupid, but I'd far rather have Android based than an Apple product.

    12. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't get confused about this; There are two tribes here; "slightly open" and "closed" and which one wins will make a real difference. This is a question of total control. Android already has clones and fully viable internal competitors (Amazon's kindle systems; chinese ones, etc). IOS to a large extent and Windows 100% arew becoming closed systems in which large media companies and "approved" developers will have special powers nobody else shares.

      Currently Microsoft is subsidising every phone they sell. They pay for marketing for Windows 8 and demand that it is the only operating system mentioned on PC suppliers sites. If Microsoft ever gets to 30% market share there will be a massive closedown and that investment they are making now will have to be recovered.

      Google saw this some time ago and realised that, when Apple or Microsoft get complete control of the market their search will be locked out of almost every new device. They are now somewhat on the side of freedom and openness just because they realised that closed and locked is a trap for them. That doesn't make them good, and the fact that their backs are against the wall may make them dangerous, however compared to their competitors they aren't "evil". Hope they win, because if anyone else does there is no chance of another competitor arising ever again.

    13. Re:Billions of Androids by C18H27NO3+ · · Score: 1

      My sentiments exactly.

    14. Re:Billions of Androids by symbolset · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly this. Google is showing the power of open. All your stuff works with all your other stuff. Amazing.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    15. Re:Billions of Androids by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1
      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    16. Re:Billions of Androids by acid_andy · · Score: 1, Troll

      I care what he thinks. Apple's existence is actually ruining other platforms and their diversity. Look at how much Unity sucks. That's Apple's fault. Windows 8? Apple!

      --
      Your ad here.
    17. Re:Billions of Androids by ruir · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      I send that, I "own" a crapdroid. I only Internet in the first couple of months, then gave up on it and start only using it for voice calls. Anyway, I hated the damn thing, and bought myself I 5s. So while technically I count as a Android and iPhone user, I only use my iPhone.

    18. Re:Billions of Androids by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Because while Androids outsell Apple 4:1 or more, there's a very strange thing going on. Mobile web traffic has iOS using TWICE the amount of data over Android. Or, put another way, 1 iOS user consumes as much data as 8 Android users.

      Do you have any reliable, current citations for this? The only evidence I have ever seen were some ancient articles on Apple fan sites. My own personal site gets more Android hits than iOS, so I'm sceptical.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    19. Re:Billions of Androids by SpaghettiPattern · · Score: 1

      I never understand why people pick a tribe and then pray for the destruction of their foes.

      Easy. It's the smell if incense at the ceremonies that does it for me.

      --

      I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
    20. Re:Billions of Androids by Gavagai80 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have an android phone and an android tablet, and almost never browse websites on either of them. That's not what I bought them for, I've no desire for mobile internet (maybe I could use it once a month but that's not worth buying a data plan). The phone is for music, games, calls and texts. The tablet is for reading and games. My desktop PC is for internet.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    21. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wins what? I never understand why people pick a tribe and then pray for the destruction of their foes.

      We only win when there are multiple viable choices available. Once someone 'wins' their focus turns to consolidation and not to innovation.

      Things have apparently moved beyond tribalism. Apparently Bill gates was awakened last night by a ghostly voice:
      From beyond the grave I stab at thee.... Mwuhahahahahahha!!!!

    22. Re: Billions of Androids by hashtagdeals · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but they gave those away. It's different when you pay for it.

    23. Re:Billions of Androids by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1

      there's a very strange thing going on. Mobile web traffic has iOS using TWICE the amount of data over Android. Or, put another way, 1 iOS user consumes as much data as 8 Android users.

      Only in your mind.

      Or maybe if you're still living in 2008. Android data usage overtook iOS in mid-2011 and is currently sitting at a little over double Apple's usage numbers. Looking at actual recent US carrier data suggests that there's little difference between the two, and owners of both OSs consume roughly comparable amounts of data.

      http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/newswire/2011/android-leads-u-s-in-smartphone-market-share-and-data-usage.html
      http://www.phonearena.com/news/Android-users-were-responsible-for-more-than-40-of-global-mobile-data-usage-in-December_id50847
      http://www.fiercewireless.com/special-reports/average-android-ios-smartphone-data-use-across-tier-1-wireless-carriers-thr-1

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    24. Re: Billions of Androids by tleaf100 · · Score: 0

      and if its correct,why,are flopple users viewing 8 times as many movies or musicc etc etc or is flopple just crud at moving data,are their data compression/data saving systems worse than androids or are they got wasteful greedy gits who start a film streaming at breakfast and stre am all day at work as well. these data rates about flopple have not sounded right since abiut 3-4 years ago

    25. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      So much stupidity in your post.

      I don't know what the vast majority of Android users are doing, but it certainly isn't contributing to the ecosystem

      You mean Android users aren't acting like entitled ass wipes and buying overpriced crap like people do on overpriced iPhones?

      It would be more like Mac and PCs, except it appears the vast majority of PCs were used only to play Solitaire as their sole function - leaving the few Mac users being ones to actually use their computers.

      You drink a lot of apple flavored koolaid if you believe that garbage. If I don't use my Android to waste bandwidth and purchase crap on the web, then I'm not actually using it?

      The reality is that a lot of iPhones are purchased by easily manipulated suckers, and they are easily parted from their money through a steady diet of consumer drivel marketing.

      Of course, given that most Androids are crap-droids that people are buying to replace their featurephones

      Figures from Gartner indicate that in Q3 2013, Android accounted for nearly 82% of all smartphone sales in the period.

      Don't worry though! Apple had 12.1% of smartphones--or 30 million devices compared to 205 Million Android smartphones. And those are SMARTPHONES, not feature phones--Android sold nearly another 100 Million feature phones as well.

      Even Samsung's flagship phones barely crack 10% of the Android market, and Samsung owns about 90% of the Android phones out there, so for every S4, they sell 8 other "budget class" Android phones

      Completely incorrect. Samsung's S4/Notes sold nearly 90 Million units last year alone--equal to Apple's sales of iPhone 5c and 5s. And Samsung is only approximately 40% of the Android market.

      You just don't know what you are talking about.

    26. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because while Androids outsell Apple 4:1 or more, there's a very strange thing going on. Mobile web traffic has iOS using TWICE the amount of data over Android. Or, put another way, 1 iOS user consumes as much data as 8 Android users.

      Do you have any reliable, current citations for this? The only evidence I have ever seen were some ancient articles on Apple fan sites. My own personal site gets more Android hits than iOS, so I'm sceptical.

      Here is an article that links to a couple of Android vs. iOS studies:
      http://readwrite.com/2013/06/06/3-possible-reasons-why-iphone-owners-use-their-devices-more-than-android#awesm=~ot6dkaFltAH3jD

      They seem to support much of what he says except the usage patterns for Android and iOS are similar but that does not guarantee that the data consumption is the same.

    27. Re: Billions of Androids by tleaf100 · · Score: 0

      the most important figure will come from how much advertising revenue can be pulled across the platform and the success rate of said adverts. i suspect that like most android users i have never or very rarely clicked open an online advert,but i bet more flopple users do,as a %age of user base.its all abot the money.

    28. Re: Billions of Androids by tleaf100 · · Score: 0

      chump.not in the uk they dont and all knowledge of e.u says they dont there either,i would go and re check yer figures.

    29. Re:Billions of Androids by m.alessandrini · · Score: 1

      Have you been smoking hard recently?

    30. Re:Billions of Androids by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      Google saw this some time ago and realised that, when Apple or Microsoft get complete control of the market their search will be locked out of almost every new device. They are now somewhat on the side of freedom and openness just because they realised that closed and locked is a trap for them. That doesn't make them good, and the fact that their backs are against the wall may make them dangerous, however compared to their competitors they aren't "evil". Hope they win, because if anyone else does there is no chance of another competitor arising ever again.

      Yep, and the same methodology applies to their fiberhoods.

    31. Re:Billions of Androids by multimediavt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly this. Google is showing the power of open. All your stuff works with all your other stuff. Amazing.

      As long as it all runs the same version, or you're willing to take the time to make it work. Let's keep this real. There's enough BS flying around both camps. The "closed" environment is bound to be more interoperable, look at Adobe and Microsoft. The cons are that they are only interoperable with their own kind. Which one is better? The one that lets you work the way you want. Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't make it bad.

    32. Re: Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Emm. No. Apple sold far more than 90 million iPhones. More like 120-140 millions.

    33. Re:Billions of Androids by Swampash · · Score: 1

      There are more Hyundais in the world than Mercedeses. Mercedes doesn't seem to be too bothered.

    34. Re:Billions of Androids by multimediavt · · Score: 4, Informative

      Because while Androids outsell Apple 4:1 or more, there's a very strange thing going on. Mobile web traffic has iOS using TWICE the amount of data over Android. Or, put another way, 1 iOS user consumes as much data as 8 Android users.

      Do you have any reliable, current citations for this? The only evidence I have ever seen were some ancient articles on Apple fan sites. My own personal site gets more Android hits than iOS, so I'm sceptical.

      If all you find is Apple fan sites (which still reference their sources, btw) then you searched the wrong terms in Google. Try "mobile web traffic report". Here's one example.

    35. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't walk around with my head in Angry Birds 47, I don't post pictures of my food before I eat. I use a phone to *organise meeting people* and then I spent time with them. The people. If by "contributing to the ecosystem" you mean "being a target for advertising" then yes, I opt out. Have fun with FaceBook putting your face on ads served to your friends without your knowledge or compensation, because that's what your "ecosystem" is.

    36. Re:Billions of Androids by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      Some sites even display higher prices for iOS users. No ad blocking either.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    37. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The vast amount of malware (in ads) targets Android devices. I know so because I keep being told by my readers that is happening. How do I fix it? I can't short or removing ads entirely, in which case I may as well just delete the the site and the thousands of dollars a month I make on it.

      See on iOS, the worst you get is shitty ads for for shitty candy crush saga. On Android you get downloads that you can do fuck all about. I'd be better off banning android users from reading my site than I would from removing the ads.

    38. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Both of you guys took the same data and walked it to an extreem.

      Android accounts for ~2x the mobile web traffic and ~4x the devices. Meaning that on a per device basis an iOS user consumes double the mobile data that a android user does. You have to also keep in mind that this data explicitly does not track data usage while on wifi, and doesn't track data usage from apps (just web browsing).

      As a personal aside: I have a nexus 5 on t-mobile. My t-mobile plan is capped at 500 megs of data per month but it doesn't bother me. My home, work, and favorite restraunts all offer free wifi that I can use. The only place I regularly don't have a wifi connection is in my car while I'm driving, and I don't regularly browse the web while driving (pandora eats about 300-400 megs a month during my commutes, but that isn't tracked because it's not web traffic).

    39. Re: Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gotta love that open community of Android OS development.

    40. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean you dont come here to read this?
      Its very entertaining to watch people continue to entrench in some sort of "positional bargaining" for which they really have little vested interest.

      My phone is better then yours because XYZ...

    41. Re: Billions of Androids by swillden · · Score: 3, Informative

      flopple

      "Flopple"? Seriously? I'm a big Android fan, and really annoyed at much of Apple's recent behavior, and even I think that's lame.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    42. Re:Billions of Androids by jon3k · · Score: 1

      Apple still rakes in the most mobile profits and just launched on China mobile, the biggest carrier in the world. Prior to that they were basically fighting with one hand behind their back.

    43. Re:Billions of Androids by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Here's another, where they track based upon mobile browser platform. It seems that worldwide Android has about 50% more traffic than iOS.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    44. Re:Billions of Androids by jbolden · · Score: 1

      I don't know what the vast majority of Android users are doing, but it certainly isn't contributing to the ecosystem.

      Well there has been good research so I can tell you.

      Tablets: There are essentially only two large purchase points iPads and $75-150 Android tablets. The $75-150 Android prices are grouped with restaurants. People buy food and there is a guy in the back who loads the Android tablet with TV content. They compete with low end TVs. iPads are used as an application platform primarily.

      Phones: You really need to break out by key price points.
      $500+
      $300-500
      $200-300
      $150-200
      $90-150
      $90-

      Within price points you see similar usage between Apple and Android (as well as JavaVM). The difference comes from the fact that Apple is super concentrated with most sales in the in the $500+ market. They also are about 70% of that market and growing. That market buys lots of applications whether on Android or iPhone. Even in that market though the buying patterns are somewhat different, with Android customers tending to buy lots of add ons within applications... Apple has some share in the $400+ range (60%) but it is a triangle with $300 phones way outselling $450 phones. Here you see far less application purchases for all platforms. As you drop points down to $90-300 you see very little application purchases at all. For example in China people don't even have access to Google Play on their "Android" phones.

    45. Re:Billions of Androids by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Net apps: 55% iOS / Safari, 35% Android + Chrome. Similarly data from retailers showed much more mobile iOS traffic, as well as higher spend per purchase for iOS (likelyhood of purchase was close).

    46. Re:Billions of Androids by sribe · · Score: 1

      I don't know what the vast majority of Android users are doing, but it certainly isn't contributing to the ecosystem.

      One theory that has come up recently (based on actual evidence) is that shit-tons of crappy $99 tablet knock-offs, along with even usb TV dongles, are being reported as Android sales.

      So while I do believe that outside the US, Android phones outsell Apple by a substantial margin, it's nowhere near 3x.

      Basically Apple is picking off the most profitable customers, and it's 1/3 to 1/2 not some small share, while Samsung is soaking up the rest of the market with a volume approach. And remember, together they're taking more than 100% of the total profits, because the other players all together are losing money...

      So no, Apple is not going anywhere, is not losing. Microsoft, Blackberry, Nokia, HTC, et all are failing.

    47. Re:Billions of Androids by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      Because while Androids outsell Apple 4:1 or more, there's a very strange thing going on. Mobile web traffic has iOS using TWICE the amount of data over Android. Or, put another way, 1 iOS user consumes as much data as 8 Android users.

      That's rather easy to explain: iDevices are expensive and the people buying them likely can afford to pay for all this mobile traffic. Android-devices, on the other hand, go all the way as low as $30, and the people buying low-end Android-devices most likely can't afford to pay for mobile traffic or will be able to only pay for small amounts of it. The price-range and the wealth of the end-users on Android-end of things is much, much wider.

    48. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The software produced by Microsoft and Apple hinder the development of high quality software

      I believe there are billions of users that disagree. You have to either be a complete zealot that claims only free-as-in-speech software is "high quality" or you just haven't even used a Windows PC or a Mac in like 15+ years.

    49. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is this guy rated flamebait? You might not like his opinion, but it's stated honestly without attacking anyone else. I think this is bogus.

    50. Re:Billions of Androids by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > Says the partisan neckbeard... Nobody cares what you think, neckbeard.

      This is why people think that Apple needs to be burned to the ground. You have smug fanboys that think they are going to take over the world and disenfranchise anyone that doesn't meet their definition of trendy.

      That's just fascist nonsense.

      You are not special. Neither is your pet consumer brand.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    51. Re:Billions of Androids by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Windows still has most of it's old problems. It's a legacy platform that is slow to change because suddenly getting serious about things like security would break things.

      Microsoft in particular is piss poor about setting a good example. Quite often the security problems associated with Windows aren't even the fault of the OS, they are the fault of (Microsoft) applications that do stupid things.

      Apple is just tripe for people without any clue. Too few features and not enough flexibility and tools that don't really scale to serious use of any kind. Technical correctness is ignored, probably because they think they can get away with it.

      Ease of use is defined as doing less.

      Windows user culture is not nearly as bad as Apple user culture.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    52. Re:Billions of Androids by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > As long as it all runs the same version, or you're willing to take the time to make it work. Let's keep this real.

      Yes. Lets.

      You are the one spreading the bullshit.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    53. Re:Billions of Androids by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > I'm in the US and you couldn't pay me to take an iPhone... well, ok, if you paid me and it was a current model,

      That would only work if you went straight to the Apple store. If you went to the store for your cellphone carrier, they would probably try and talk you out of it.

      That happened to my spouse. Considered going back into the fold but the salesman discouraged it. Said that "there's no going back". People that try end up returning their iThings.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    54. Re:Billions of Androids by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Because while Androids outsell Apple 4:1 or more, there's a very strange thing going on. Mobile web traffic has iOS using TWICE the amount of data over Android. Or, put another way, 1 iOS user consumes as much data as 8 Android users.

      No it doesn't. Android mobile web traffic is about 2x that of iOS mobile web traffic and pulling ahead. iOS still has a huge lead in tablet web traffic, but tablet + mobile web traffic Android passed iOS last year and is pulling ahead at a pretty fast clip (iOS is losing both phone and tablet web traffic share).

      There are three big companies which monitor web traffic. Statcounter (which I've linked), W3Counter, and Netmarketshare. The latter two are frequently cited by Apple fans because they show iOS in the lead. What they don't tell you is that the latter two count unique visitors in a month, not web traffic. That is, in their statistics someone who visits a site once a month counts as much as someone who visits the site every day. Statcounter counts actual web visits, which is what corresponds to web data. It shows Android pretty clearly in the lead.

      So the way it breaks down is:

      • People who never browse the web on their phones are mostly on Android.
      • People who occasionally browse the web on their phones are mostly on iPhones.
      • People who browse the web a lot on their phones are mostly on Android. Despite having roughly half the number of people browsing the web as iPhones, they generate twice as much web traffic. i.e. They use the web 4x as much as the typical iPhone user who uses the web.
    55. Re:Billions of Androids by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      Generally developers focus on only a handful (or one) platform depending on the difficulty of development. The OS is less important than the software for most things. If my OS and no programs to run it would be a lonely world. If I had an OS and every program available it would be superior to a far superior operating system. At work we have an application critical to our operation that is windows only. Therefore Windows is the best OS. We would prefer OSX to die so that a couple applications we would *like* to have would be developed for Windows instead of OSX.

    56. Re:Billions of Androids by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Read my other reply. This is a slick misuse of statistics by Apple fans. The numbers they're using are unique visitors per month, not actual web traffic. If you look at actual web traffic usage, Android heads by a pretty hefty margin. The heavy web users are on Android. The occasional web users are on Apple devices.

    57. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I considered buying an Android phone and using with a per-minute service. Its primary purpose would be phone calls but also play videos using VLC. (Also for Checking email and messages as well, but that can be done with apps and not visiting a website.)

      I'm sure other people have thought of this.

    58. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The same version? WTF? Android 1.1 data is readable on Android 4.x devices, and unlike nothing microsoft has *ever, ever, ever, ever* done, Android 4.x data *is* readable and functional on Android 1.1 devices. Never ever has the second way been available on microsoft. Never, ever. Windows 4 could *never, ever* read Windows 5 data. You *always* had to upgrade. It was never compatible. This was never for a technical reason, microsoft always loved fleecing money from people like you, you sucker.

    59. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because god forbids people go contrary to the opinion of whoever is moderating, or speaks against Android or Microsoft nowadays. People use moderating points to enforce their opinion rather than improving the overall quality of the discussion.

    60. Re:Billions of Androids by steelfood · · Score: 1

      I wonder if it's also because Apple's a company whose products are sold primarily due to their ability to market. It would possibly indicate that the people who purchase Apple's products are more accessible to advertising, or more generically, to being influenced by external messages.

      Android and Windows users on the other hand, likely fall into the parts of the spectrum where external messages tend not to influence their behavior. Either they have better information than any marketing can supply, or they just don't give a crap (i.e., know practically nothing about the subject matter). It would make sense that especially the latter group will purchase less, and usually spend less per purchase, making them less desirable targets for advertising.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    61. Re:Billions of Androids by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Why does one phone OS have to win? I have an iPhone. The fact that Android exists and is successful means Apple has to work hard to improve iPhones, and I directly benefit from that. In addition, if I decide I no longer like iPhones, I've got good alternatives. If you use high-end Android phones, you're in the exact same position with names reversed. (If you use low-end Android phones, you're not in a market segment Apple serves.)

      There's plenty of room in this market for more than one winner, and I don't see Android or iOS becoming irrelevant for a long time. I'm hoping both stay strong contenders for a long time.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    62. Re:Billions of Androids by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      Because while Androids outsell Apple 4:1 or more, there's a very strange thing going on. Mobile web traffic has iOS using TWICE the amount of data over Android. Or, put another way, 1 iOS user consumes as much data as 8 Android users.

      Thank you so much for saving me the trouble of writing a long rant about this very fact. I can verify this from the 100 or so websites my company hosts, it is absolutely true. It's not really all that much of a mystery.

      Where I live, I can get a free Android tablet by having a guy come to my house and estimate replacement windows. Is it really usable for much? Probably not. But it counts as a unit sale. My aging parents got a "great deal" on an Android tablet for $39.95. They couldn't figure out how to hook it up to the Wi-Fi network I setup for them. Is it a unit sale? You bet it is.

      From the perspective of what platform you should develop for, iOS wins... as do PC's by the way... Unless you're talking servers, in which case you can charge a lot more for .net guys than php guys so stop complaining!

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
    63. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google will only remain "open" until it profits them more to be closed. And with >80% of the market already into their platform it shouldn't be much longer before they close the hole and have you trapped...just like everyone else.

    64. Re:Billions of Androids by gig · · Score: 1

      None of this should be a surprise:

      * Apple is the PC and iPod manufacturer, and so their phones and tablets are tablet PC's with iPod features and iPod phones with tablet PC features
      * Samsung is a phone and TV manufacturer, and so their phones are phones with TV (media player) features and their tablets are TV's with phone features (Java apps)

        duh.

      Or are you saying I can do the exact same things with a stone tablet that I can do with an iPad? How about with an Advil tablet? Same features as an iPad?

    65. Re:Billions of Androids by gig · · Score: 1

      Apple is the “just works” company.

      My experience has been that I have plugged hundreds of hardware accessories into my Mac, iPad, and iPhone and they all just worked. This includes electronic drum kits, which plug into a Mac or iOS device very easily and just work. MIDI-over-Wi-Fi between iOS devices and Mac devices just works.

      My experience has been that I have run hundreds of apps on my Mac and they just worked, and hundreds of apps on my iPad and iPhone and they just worked. I can't remember ever attempting to run a Mac or iOS app and they didn't run.

      Also I have run Perl and Python and PHP scripts on my Mac and they just worked. I have run Apache websites on the Web Sharing feature of my Mac and they just worked. And I've shared files with other Macs, Windows PC's, Unix systems over the network and they just worked. FTP sites — whatever. All just worked.

      I have definitely opened a broad range of professional audio and video file formats on my Mac and they just worked. Even right-out-of-the-box with no additional software installed.

      Rendezvous — zero configuration networking — just worked. AirPlay just works. AirPrint just works.

      The Google ecosystem just works. The Yahoo ecosystem. Netflix, Xfinity, MLB, Qello — they all just work.

      What am I missing out on? I don't know that I have time to use any more stuff.

      Oh, right — VIRUSES. I can't run any viruses. I need to be “open” to run all the viruses.

    66. Re:Billions of Androids by gig · · Score: 1

      Are you saying that Apple is closed and that Apple and Microsoft are both the same? Because neither of those ring true to me.

      You *might* be able to argue that Google is open, Apple is less open, and Microsoft is closed. That has at least the ring of truth. However, a lot of Google's open source comes with strings that make it unusable by anybody but Google partners. Apple's open source stuff like LLVM and Clang and WebKit are truly open and we know that because they have all been used by Apple competitors, not just partners. Android includes Apple WebKit. I'm unaware of any Google open source that is inside iOS. Google also uses LLVM and Clang. Not to mention the entire interface paradigm of Android is from Apple.

      I think you are just thinking “open good — closed bad” and then assigning open to your favorite platform and closed to the ones you don't like. Maybe you are not doing that. In that case, cite some examples of open source projects from all 3 companies and how they are relatively open and closed.

    67. Re:Billions of Androids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a slick misuse of statistics by Apple fans.

      Yeah, that's why Apple's stock price is plummeting and they are strapped with so much corporate debt. Oh, wait...

    68. Re:Billions of Androids by multimediavt · · Score: 1

      What other reply? The reply you link to was by another user that did not agree with you at all.

    69. Re:Billions of Androids by multimediavt · · Score: 1

      LMAO, you counter a list longer than my leg based on the search terms with one article.

    70. Re:Billions of Androids by multimediavt · · Score: 1

      Even better, LMFAO, that chart has Opera outpacing Safari and the iPhone. Even for one measurement period, that's utterly ridiculous. What's that measuring? It certainly isn't any site with usage stats like CNN.com, or YouTube.com. Call me when you have some real numbers.

  3. In related news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ABCco writes that the number of apples and oranges sold in 2014 will also reach parity!

    captcha: counters

    1. Re:In related news... by m.alessandrini · · Score: 1
      Exactly what I think when I read this kind of comparisons. Can we stop making ridicolous comparisons, such as "Linux has already defeated Windows, see how many Android phones are sold versus Windows PCs" or "see how many servers run linux"... When they'll prove that such objects are interchangeable, I'll give them credit.

      Note: I use linux on my PCs, but I try to be fair.

  4. Hugh Baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We luv u! Keep ur news comin! If not 4 u we would b reading last week's newz!

  5. How is this news by zerotorr · · Score: 3, Informative

    They're comparing Iphones to PCs? How is this parity?

    1. Re:How is this news by quax · · Score: 3, Funny

      When a 'phone' runs UNIX underneath and is a commercially attractive software platform, then I think there is indeed a basis for comparison.

    2. Re:How is this news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they're comparing the sum of phones, tablets and PCs running Apple's UNIX OS to the sum of phones, tablets and PCs running Microsoft's NT OS.

    3. Re:How is this news by Microlith · · Score: 1

      That iPhones run xnu is irrelevant given how hard they fight to keep you away from it.

    4. Re:How is this news by abhi_beckert · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My iPhone can do everything I can do on my workstation. The screen is too small to be productive at some tasks, but it can do everything.

      Sure, I can't access a bash prompt on localhost, unless I jailbreak it, but I definitely have an ssh client and have logged into my server many times... even solved a catastrophe once using just my phone, vi works surprisingly well using the iOS keyboard.

    5. Re:How is this news by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is nothing. Last year Americans bought 309 million Windows PCs, but they bought over 11 billion paper clips. It is clear that Microsoft has lost its stranglehold on the paperclip/Windows PC market.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    6. Re:How is this news by lostmongoose · · Score: 1

      No, it isn't. I *gasp* read TFA and it's specifically comparing just Windows PC sales to total iOS+OSX device sales. Nowhere does he mention Windows Phone or Tablet sales. The article is incredibly misleading and biased.

    7. Re:How is this news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      vi works surprisingly well using the iOS keyboard

      Well now I know you're just making shit up! EMACS or die bro!

    8. Re:How is this news by Zynder · · Score: 2

      Did the death of Clippy teach you NOTHING! :D

    9. Re:How is this news by quax · · Score: 1

      Sure, but jailbreaks are readily available.

    10. Re:How is this news by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Can you write and compile your own software on your iPhone? It sounds like your "workstation" PC is actually just a dumb terminal.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    11. Re:How is this news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      vi works surprisingly well using the iOS keyboard

      Well now I know you're just making shit up! EMACS or die bro!

      MAY YOU BURN IN HELL HERETIC, BURN!!!!!

    12. Re:How is this news by m.alessandrini · · Score: 1

      My iPhone can do everything I can do on my workstation

      Really? Everything? And how much as good? Things like, don't know, programming, editing photos and videos, writing long texts ... ?

    13. Re:How is this news by multimediavt · · Score: 2

      Can you write and compile your own software on your iPhone?

      No, why would you want to? Geez, devs complain about 2560x1440 laptops not having enough screen real estate. WTF?

      It sounds like your "workstation" PC is actually just a dumb terminal.

      And? With cloud resources isn't that where things are heading ... again. Besides, it's only as dumb as the person sitting at it.

    14. Re:How is this news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you write and compile your own software on your iPhone? It sounds like your "workstation" PC is actually just a dumb terminal.

      Don't let him fool you. To an admin, everything that isn't a server is just another terminal.

    15. Re:How is this news by mjwx · · Score: 1

      My iPhone can do everything I can do on my workstation. The screen is too small to be productive at some tasks, but it can do everything.

      If it can do everything your workstation can do, you don't need a powerful workstation.

      Bargain basement laptop here you come. It's got all the power you need.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    16. Re:How is this news by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      The AC was being a smartass, and you missed it.

      the sum of phones, tablets and PCs running Microsoft's NT OS.

      NT-based OSes only run on PC, so the sum of "phones, tablets, and PCs" running it is 0 + 0 + N

      All in all, though, yeah, this is a pretty imbecilic fluff piece.

    17. Re:How is this news by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > My iPhone can do everything I can do on my workstation.

      No it can't. It can't even run CUPS. Never mind using any other interesting peripherals. It can't run anything but what Apple has already pre-approved for you. Any apps it does have are scaled back "starter" versions compared to what's available for a real PC.

      Like any Apple definition of "works" it's only limited for a very small value of "works".

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    18. Re:How is this news by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > No, why would you want to? Geez, devs complain about 2560x1440 laptops not having enough screen real estate. WTF?

      Why? So you have civilized PC features on your system rather than the sad hacks that fanboys would decry if they were associated to some other platform.

      Freedom to do what you want is what allows killer apps to be created and propagated.

      The new curation regime is like forever being stuck under the thumb of corporate IT.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    19. Re:How is this news by abhi_beckert · · Score: 1

      I was an emacs user... but none of the many linux servers I ssh into have it. I'm not going to install emacs three times a week, so I learned vi instead.

      Anyway, control+a is hard to type on an iOS keyboard (possible, since a good terminal emulator adds a control key, but not productive).

    20. Re:How is this news by abhi_beckert · · Score: 1

      Can you write and compile your own software on your iPhone? It sounds like your "workstation" PC is actually just a dumb terminal.

      My workstation PC is a mac with a pair of 27" displays, possibly a third coming. I write server side linux software on it at my day job, Mac/iOS software as a hobby (open source stuff).

      And I can write and compile software on my iPhone. As soon as I commit any changes to github, within a few seconds the mac mini we have in the cloud will start running tests and doing a build, which I can then download onto the iPhone to execute it (assuming it's an iOS app).

      If it's a Windows or Mac app, I can VNC into some hardware running that platform and test it there.

    21. Re:How is this news by gig · · Score: 1

      > > My iPhone can do everything I can do on my workstation.

      > No it can't. It can't even run CUPS

      CUPS is there inside the core operating system of every iOS device since before iOS 5. Apple is the maintainer of CUPS.

      Maybe his workstation can't run AirPrint, but his iOS device can run CUPS.

      Maybe you are looking for a serial cable connection from an iOS device to a printer? That makes as much sense as an electric car with no battery that you plug into a very long AC cable. That is why iOS devices have AirPrint wireless printing. Which is based on CUPS and can be made to work with any CUPS printer if you like.

      > Any apps it does have are scaled back "starter" versions compared to what's available for a real PC.

      That is not true. The apps are not scaled back, and they are not starter versions. And many iOS apps have features that you can't get on any Mac or Windows software.

      Pages/Keynote/Numbers have the same features whether running on the Mac, Web, iPad, iPhone, or iPod touch.

      GarageBand for iOS has features that don't exist on any Mac or Windows music composition software. It's the best PC songwriting software, period.

      iMovie is great on the Mac, but it really shines on iPad, which has a built-in movie camera, complete with the large viewfinder screen that is found on real movie cameras. So you see a real TV view of what you are shooting, then when you edit you can drag clips around with your finger, and before you know it, you are uploading to YouTube over 4G from the very location you were shooting. BETTER.

      Photoshop on Mac/Windows may seem to be much bigger than any iOS app, but keep in mind that Photoshop for Mac/Windows is actually dozens if not hundreds of individual apps combined into one giant interface. Any particular user only uses some subset of that large suite of apps. The equivalent on iOS would be to run about 10 iOS apps, and that is what Photoshop experts do when they use an iPad. They choose the 10 iOS apps that match up to the parts of Photoshop for Mac/Windows that they actually use.

      The size of apps is a ridiculous metric, anyway. I could just as easily say that Unix is not a real PC operating system because the typical iOS app is much bigger than diff or echo. You do realize that App Store (the iOS app) is much bigger than apt-get (the Unix app,) right? So what you are saying doesn't make any sense. Even if you were factually correct about anything, which you are not.

  6. Death Knell For Microsoft's Monopoly? by KingOfBLASH · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Investment analysts have noticed for quite some time that Apple's iphone has a "halo effect." Specifically, people who buy iphones are more likely to buy Macs (and ipads) in the future. And apple is quite good at this sort of turnover.

    So the news here is not that so many iphones are sold. The news is that this may indicate the status of Mac vs. PC in the future.

    1. Re:Death Knell For Microsoft's Monopoly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anal ists you say?

    2. Re:Death Knell For Microsoft's Monopoly? by msobkow · · Score: 1

      People become fans of a brand.

      What a shock.

      Remember when Sony was a "big" brand name? People would buy Sony everything. Apple just now holds that position with their customers. It's not a new phenomena.

      You don't get the same multi-device purchases from other PC brands largely because they don't sell a breadth of products. Where is the Dell Android Phone, for example?

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    3. Re:Death Knell For Microsoft's Monopoly? by Swampash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My gut feeling is that Apple really doesn't give a shit about Mac any more. It's a device with small margins in a shrinking market and sales cycles of 4, 5, even 6 years (Macs just keep going and going and going).

      iPhone and iPad however have big margins and a new product revision is released every year. That's where the money is and that's where the future is.

      Why the fuck would Apple spend any more time thinking about Mac than it needs to?

    4. Re:Death Knell For Microsoft's Monopoly? by mystikkman · · Score: 2

      Investment analysts have noticed for quite some time that Apple's iphone has a "halo effect." Specifically, people who buy iphones are more likely to buy Macs (and ipads) in the future. And apple is quite good at this sort of turnover.

      So the news here is not that so many iphones are sold. The news is that this may indicate the status of Mac vs. PC in the future.

      Is that why Mac sales are decreasing quarter after quarter?

    5. Re:Death Knell For Microsoft's Monopoly? by jbolden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Macs don't have small margins. As for why they think about it, because OSX is an important upsell for iOS. An OSX/iOS user is not only spending quite a bit more, but they are much stickier than an iOS user only. That means potentially the ability to lock up the $400+ phone market for a generation.

    6. Re:Death Knell For Microsoft's Monopoly? by KingOfBLASH · · Score: 1

      PC sales are decreasing quarter over quarter to as more people go to tablets.

    7. Re:Death Knell For Microsoft's Monopoly? by KingOfBLASH · · Score: 1

      Because they lock you into the ecosystem. Once you're Mac OSX + iPad + iPhone, you're not going anywhere.

    8. Re:Death Knell For Microsoft's Monopoly? by schlachter · · Score: 1

      Make sense, but I think Mac is still about 20% of their revenue.

      They care because it's part of the ecosystem. They want to control it.

      --
      My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
    9. Re:Death Knell For Microsoft's Monopoly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My gut feeling is that Apple really doesn't give a shit about Mac any more. It's a device with small margins in a shrinking market and sales cycles of 4, 5, even 6 years (Macs just keep going and going and going).

      iPhone and iPad however have big margins and a new product revision is released every year. That's where the money is and that's where the future is.

      Why the fuck would Apple spend any more time thinking about Mac than it needs to?

      They spend time where there is still a market. The fact that this is not the year of the Linux desktop speaks volumes as to why any Apple OS is still successful.

      And you can't tell me they're not making a fucking killing on hardware, no matter how many units are being pushed.

    10. Re:Death Knell For Microsoft's Monopoly? by Swampash · · Score: 1

      Macs don't have small margins.

      Not in comparison to other PC manufacturers, no they don't - about 25%, IIRC which is a margin Dell, HP, et al would kill for.

      But the margin on iPad is in the mid thirties. The margin on iPhone is in the mid FIFTIES. And those are devices that are replaced every 12-18 months, as opposed to Macs getting replaced every 4-6 years.

    11. Re:Death Knell For Microsoft's Monopoly? by Swampash · · Score: 1

      Oh, Apple is far and a way the most profitable manufacturer in the PC market. It makes more money from Mac sales than Dell, HP. Lenovo, Asus, and Acer make from all their WinPC sales combined.

      https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30697024/asymcopcshare2012.png
      http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Screen-Shot-2013-04-16-at-4-16-4.16.46-PM-620x587.png

      (all stats from Asymco)

      But the dominating the PC market is dominating a market that doesn't have a future. Or rather, not a big one.

    12. Re:Death Knell For Microsoft's Monopoly? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      And those are devices that are replaced every 12-18 months, as opposed to Macs getting replaced every 4-6 years.

      You are double counting. The faster replacement cycle is what drives the discrepancy in user / sales. On the other hand the Macs have higher prices.

      Also I doubt iPads and iPhones are on a 15mo replacement cycle, I suspect it is more like 20-30 mo. Remember these do get sold used, passed on....

    13. Re:Death Knell For Microsoft's Monopoly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The halo effect for many people, especially older people who's kids bought a trendy device and then wanted to get them "in the ecosystem", is caused by lack of knowledge and PR bs.
      If I had a nickel for every person that has informed me how they were told 1) how Macs can't get viruses, 2) how Macs (which is a catchall of OSX and IOS devices to them) are just "better", but they have no idea Why, and 3) how they can replace their home PC that they use for business, taxes, gaming, etc....with and iPhone or iPad....well, let's just say my working days would be over.
      The misconceptions propagated by Apple are atrocious at the least, and criminal at worst.

    14. Re:Death Knell For Microsoft's Monopoly? by Swampash · · Score: 1

      You are double counting. The faster replacement cycle is what drives the discrepancy in user / sales.

      What? Who's talking about sales? I'm talking about MARGINS.

  7. death of the pc? by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

    I have no idea how a developer can do their job with only a smart phone or pad/tablet.

    I need a screen, keyboard and mouse. Anyone worming in stats beyond what I need to do my job is simply spreading FUD.

    --
    _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    1. Re:death of the pc? by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      PCs will become like the super workstations of the late 80s and early 90s.. They'll be $10000 and only corporates and government will be able to afford them. The rest of us will be stuck with locked down content consumption devices..

    2. Re:death of the pc? by afidel · · Score: 0

      Then hook up a phone/tablet via HDMI and use a BT keyboard and mouse, the only thing that would suck would be compiling but that can be done on a server. Flagship phones already ship with 2GB of ram and a processor about on par with the first Core 2 Duo's, within 18-24 months they'll have 4GB of ram which should be sufficient for most workers.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    3. Re:death of the pc? by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 2

      a processor about on par with the first Core 2 Duo

      Lol. No, they don't.

    4. Re:death of the pc? by afidel · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sunspider scores for the iphone 5S and Note 3 are nearly identical to the Core 2 Duo, remember Conroe is 7.5 years or 5 Moore generations ago.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    5. Re:death of the pc? by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Depends what you mean by "Stuck with", for the vast majority of users content consumption is all they do, and having a large complicated workstation is very dangerous for someone who doesn't know how to manage it properly.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    6. Re:death of the pc? by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      The fallout though is that the internet will cease to exist as a p2p platform.. Only fortune 500s and governments will create most of the content.. Cheap workstation hardware is a necessity, so this is worrisome.

    7. Re:death of the pc? by AC-x · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sunspider score? That's more to do with improving Javascript engines than a better CPU! The Note 3's CPU is apparently capable of 930 MFLOPS, while even the lowest end E6300 Core 2 Duo can get 8.8 GFLOPS.

      If you count GPU performance then the iPhone 5s has 76.8GFlops, but then consumer graphics cards were up to 1TFlop by 2009.

    8. Re:death of the pc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The iPhone 5s CPU keeps up pretty well with a P8600 2.4Ghz Core 2 Duo:

      http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/345485
      http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/345619

    9. Re:death of the pc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who cares how you get the performance? If it performs basically the same for most things that I do, it's good enough. Kudos to the software developers at Apple for squeezing every bit of performance from their hardware. My iPhone 5 feels faster than my 2.4GHz desktop running XP. The phone turns on faster, browses faster, and apps turn on faster. Smaller screen, but that's the only way it's going to fit in my pocket.

    10. Re:death of the pc? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And a lot of javascript engine performance is strongly linked to peak single thread performance. Which has a nice relationship with clock rate, and has sort of been stagnating on x86 since the core 2 time frame.

      That isn't to say a modern x86 doesn't walk all over the best ARM's you can buy, only that the gap is narrowing for a narrow range of problem sets. Mostly ones that need single thread performance, have small cache/memory footprints, and don't scale well over multiple CPUs.

    11. Re:death of the pc? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > Who cares how you get the performance?

      Anyone that decides to do something for which the device was not specifically designed. THAT is the purpose of a general purpose computing device after all. What happens when "the next thing" comes along and there isn't special silicon already dedicated to it?

      Your illusion will evaporate.

      Your phone "seems faster" because it's more like an 80s home computer than a modern workstation. It's crippled and prevented from doing anything that might make it look bad.

      Thus the problem with real CPU benchmarks.

      All of this becomes painfully obvious once you jailbreak one of these devices and make them do the unexpected.

      Something like h265 decoding...

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  8. well apple does get a boost with the new mac pro by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 0

    well apple does get a boost with the new mac pro after of years of been stuck in the past. 2012 was just an small bump but they used the same 2010 video card at 2010 prices!.

    also the windows 8 flop hurt MS and I don't think that windows 7 system fully count.

  9. And in sports... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And in other news, shoes outsold cars five thousand to one the previous year. Footage at eleven.

    1. Re:And in sports... by Badooleoo · · Score: 1

      But is that counting shoes in pairs or separately?

      Tyre sales must look really good in comparison.

    2. Re:And in sports... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tyre sales beat car sales by a 4:1 ratio. :-P

  10. Not a fanboi, but by kramerd · · Score: 1

    a ridiculous amount of that is caused by people who don't understand function over form. Every business = windows, every art student = mac, but there really is no explaining college students. You need an excel-like program (and there are great free ones) for math, unless you are an engineer. You need a decent email system, and if your school doesn't default to one, you went to the wrong place. You need a word processor, to fix your many spelling and grammatical errors. That's it. Buy the cheapest one that isn't raspberry pi, since you aren't in CS/CE and don't already have one.

    1. Re:Not a fanboi, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You've got a lot to learn about humans. Who buys buys/uses/consumes something purely for it's function?

      Did you buy the cheapest most functional clothes you could for a few cents a pop from singapore? or did you buy from some form of a brand or another, be it upper/middle/lower western scales from a local retailer? I thought so.

      Did you buy the most functional food you could, calculating your exact dietary requirements and buying just what is required by your body? Or did you buy what you like because you enjoy it more? I thought so.

      Did you buy an iPhone/Android/Windows/BlackBerry/FFOS/Tizen/other-brand smart phone, or did you get a plain functional Nokia/Ericsson/Motorolla/whatever cell phone that just dials and texts? I thought so too.

      This has nothing to do about understanding function over form, this is about human nature, social and cultural constructs, and fashion.

    2. Re:Not a fanboi, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nokia runs Linux, either Maemo or Android. The Ericsson phones are called Sony nowadays.

      And yes, for the phone that I use to be reachable 24/7, I use a phone (Samsung actually) that only dials and texts because the battery lasts for a whole week. I have plenty of colleagues with smartphones whom have to charge them during their lunch break, because battery keeps running out, despite the battery being new.

    3. Re:Not a fanboi, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you buy the cheapest most functional clothes you could for a few cents a pop from singapore? or did you buy from some form of a brand or another, be it upper/middle/lower western scales from a local retailer? I thought so.

      No, because they are not sold side-by-side (or in shops next to eachother) locally. I do shop as cheap as i can get away with in no-brand shops, but i will also buy quality if i see it on a good sale (singapore cheap clothes dont usually last that long, something to consider too).

      Did you buy the most functional food you could, calculating your exact dietary requirements and buying just what is required by your body? Or did you buy what you like because you enjoy it more? I thought so.

      Most people can not look at food and say which is "most functional". Plenty of people do actually calculate their exact dietary requirements.

      Did you buy an iPhone/Android/Windows/BlackBerry/FFOS/Tizen/other-brand smart phone, or did you get a plain functional Nokia/Ericsson/Motorolla/whatever cell phone that just dials and texts? I thought so too.

      Yes, i have a ~5 year old nokia fliphone (though it does to mms too, but thats rather hard to avoid - i only use it for calls and sms)

      This has nothing to do about understanding function over form, this is about human nature, social and cultural constructs, and fashion.

      This is the only part we agree on. But you need to "think again" on the others, because you seem to be wrong. Many people choose fashion over function and many others choose function over fashion. sometimes we even do both depending on our disposable cash, mood, or the type of merchandise we are shopping.

    4. Re:Not a fanboi, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you buy an iPhone/Android/Windows/BlackBerry/FFOS/Tizen/other-brand smart phone, or did you get a plain functional Nokia/Ericsson/Motorolla/whatever cell phone that just dials and texts? I thought so too.

      This has nothing to do about understanding function over form, this is about human nature, social and cultural constructs, and fashion.

      I have a Nokia flip-phone they don't even make anymore (6102i - with a 800x600 camera I think), dials and texts and not a heck of a lot else (takes pictures if I want). And even that isn't on most of the time - but I have a couple spare ones (bought cheap on ebay after the cat knocked the original off my desk and broke the hinge), and keep several batteries charged up so I have phone when something like Hurricane Sandy comes through and takes out the land-lines.

      Although I did buy a used Samsung S2, so I can play around with Android programming and have a real phone to test it on... but, it doesn't actually have a SIM card in it (although I can internet browse via my wireless router). I could pop the SIM from my Nokia in it (tried it, works fine), but I don't really *want* a "smart" phone (funny, most of the people I know with "smart" phones spend most of their day stupidly staring into the phone, texting, etc, rather than actually experiencing the real world around them).

    5. Re:Not a fanboi, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the only part we agree on. But you need to "think again" on the others, because you seem to be wrong. Many people choose fashion over function and many others choose function over fashion. sometimes we even do both depending on our disposable cash, mood, or the type of merchandise we are shopping.

      Many people choose to watch the mindless twaddle of TV "reality" shows, some people prefer to watch it for the corporate/political brainwashing called "news", etc. Me, I chose to not move to digital cable with 500 channels of crap, nor buy a HDTV - I have an old 19" analog CRT TV that hasn't been turned on in something around 3 years at this point, and don't really miss it at all (I really should toss it up in the attic one of these days, it's just been collecting dust). The few things I watch for entertainment I download online and watch on the computer (on a 19" screen) - I definitely don't need 52" TV's and all that associated crap in my life.

      While more and more I see people around me getting sucked into and enslaved in the "matrix" of technology in their ear (bluetooth), or on their face (google glass), or strapped to their hip/in their hand ("smart" phones) 24/7/365, I'm slowly distancing myself from it all - it's really not that important, experiencing nature and the world around me is far more important.

    6. Re:Not a fanboi, but by CrashNBrn · · Score: 1

      Although I did buy a used Samsung S2, so I can play around with Android programming and have a real phone to test it on... but, it doesn't actually have a SIM card in it (although I can internet browse via my wireless router). I could pop the SIM from my Nokia in it (tried it, works fine), but I don't really *want* a "smart" phone ( funny, most of the people I know with "smart" phones spend most of their day stupidly staring into the phone, texting, etc, rather than actually experiencing the real world around them ).

      *chuckle* That seems to be the general consensus.

      I got a refurb samsung as a music player to replace an aging Sansa. Unfortunately, I probably still have to get a Sansa.

      • If you accidentally leave wi-fi on --- even if the device is in limbo - on/screen off - hasn't been used in hours... the battery dies in 12 hours or less.

      Whereas an actual MP3 player will last months on a single charge if its only used sparingly. (Or 30-50 hrs continuous play.)

    7. Re:Not a fanboi, but by jbolden · · Score: 1

      You are grossly underestimating people's needs. People consistently choose more expensive word processors with additional features over lesser ones. For decades (until recently) there have been good $35 word processors that competed with Word/WordPerfect/WordStar yet people choose the higher end products. They still 5::1 choose Word over very good free office suites. That's not stupidity that's the need for features.

      Just to pick examples. My daughter at 13 did a major project with iMovie. She needed a non-professional fast easy film editing software. My wife uses the fact that quicktime movies are a native format constantly which allows her to seamless move sound and video between applications. I use the Unix environment all the time.

  11. This is comparing Apples with .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wait a minute ...

  12. What about Samsung? by viperidaenz · · Score: 5, Informative

    Apple apparently sold around 260M devices in 2013.
    I can't find a full year for Samsung, but they sold 117M phones in Q3 alone.

    Q1: 64M
    Q2: 70M
    Q3: 117M

    That's 251M in just 3 quarters. Phones only, no tablets, no laptops.

    Apple sales include Mac, iPods, iPhones and iPads.

    1. Re:What about Samsung? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'd like to add here that as the Article is clearly comparing ecosystems, not manufacturers (referring to "windows", etc.), we should actually compare here to Android - or, a bit extending, to whole Linux ecosystem. How many Linux devices were sold in 2013 including all Android phones and desktop/server configurations?
       

    2. Re:What about Samsung? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you say Linux, that would also include CromeOS, a lot of other Samsung products (my TV runs Linux), super computers, cars, and an insane number of other products. I think it is sufficient to say that the Android distribution is far more popular than Apple as a company.

    3. Re:What about Samsung? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linux being free, old hardware being sold cheap or given away (old being non-new-version-of-windows cabable, so still great HW). Often you see a new windows pc come in, the old pc being retired to a linux pc. but those pcs are still both counted as MS Windows sales (since they originally were) but the linux install is not counted (there was never a sale, so that is technically true too). But the end result is still 50/50 in running OS reality. (50% in my example, I do realise that 100% of old pcs are not reused in the real world, and some do get reused with old windows or other alternative OS too - just adding to my point below)

      Comparing Free to For pay will never work. And only people with a hidden agenda will do so (on either side, mind you)

    4. Re:What about Samsung? by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

      Nice to see a fanboi moderated as redundant.

      The numbers came from the same Gartner graphs as the Apple numbers. I just couldn't find Q4.

      The shops taking the orders aren't going to be sitting on stock for more than 3 months. They'll lose money if they do - new phones come out all the time and cost the same as the old ones.

      I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung sold 400M phones, since Q4 is the biggest in the retail market.

    5. Re:What about Samsung? by aliquis · · Score: 1

      You don't think the Samsung stock ever sells?

      I can understand how the last quarters delivery may not have sold but older stuff?

      Eventually I would assume the delivered goods sell, except for a few devices possibly though if they are just hard to sell I assume one just lower prices on them.

    6. Re:What about Samsung? by w_dragon · · Score: 1

      If they're looking at the sold-to-stores number then it is still deceptive. A store will have some stock of each smartphone they sell. For apple that's 3 models max. For android it may be 3 models per manufacturer. If they're looking at sell-through to users then it's a valid comparison.

    7. Re:What about Samsung? by jon3k · · Score: 1

      And Apple still made more profit on their sales than Samsung did. When will people understand, Apple is a premium product. They don't ever expect to have the majority of the market. They don't make a "cheap" option for that reason.

    8. Re:What about Samsung? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      There are not inventories of that size for Samsung devices. Channel inventory matters but there is no backup. Assume that sales from Samsung are a pretty good proxy for consumer sales.

    9. Re:What about Samsung? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whisper Apple do the exact same thing as regards shipping.

    10. Re:What about Samsung? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      I wasn't comparing Apple to Android, I was comparing Apple to single Android manufacturer - Samsung.

      and unless all those stores are brand new, they already had stock on hand at the start of the quarter, one would assume a similar amount at the end too.

    11. Re:What about Samsung? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      The press has a hard-on for Apple. The best example was when iPad tablet share started falling. Prior to then, there were lots of articles in the press about how the iPad still dominated the tablet market. As its share dropped from 90% to 85% to 75%, nobody in the press mentioned this. In fact most of them still stuck with the "iPads still dominate" tagline. I had to figure it out for myself from the actual numbers the marketing companies were releasing.

      In 2012 it dropped to about 60% and Android was poised to overtake it the following year. I saw one (1) article in the press about this. Most were still sticking with "most tablets sold are iPads". 2013 saw Android tablet sales surpass iPads for the first time, and suddenly there were a spate of stories about how Android had overtaken the iPad. Then nothing. No mentions of how Android tablets continued to dominate iPad sales (about 2:1 now). It it doesn't show Apple in the lead or poised to overtake the lead, apparently it's not newsworthy.

    12. Re:What about Samsung? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And is everyone forgetting there are such things as Windows phones? Nokia is still a brand to be reckoned with in mobile handsets, it was actually 2nd behind Samsung in volumes shipped last year.

    13. Re:What about Samsung? by gig · · Score: 1

      You also forgot to mention that Advil tablets outsell both Apple tablets and Samsung tablets. I bought 200 Advil tablets yesterday, and I only have one Apple tablet.

      Yes, I know an Advil tablet is a pain reliever and has nothing to do with an Apple tablet which is a PC (aka “tablet PC,” it runs native C/C++ PC apps from the Mac and other PC class systems on a PC class OS) or a Samsung tablet which is a TV (aka “media player,” it plays video and has Java phone apps,) but if you want to lump all tablets together and pretend they are all one big market, I don't know why you would leave out the Advils.

      Also there are stone tablets. Adding them in may also enable you to imply that iPad sales are dropping when they are not.

      iPad has about 99% of tablet PC sales. All the other tablet PC's run Windows. Apple pretty much doubles their iPad sales every year, and then doubles them again the following year. Everybody should have such problems.

  13. Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by perpenso · · Score: 5, Insightful

    PCs have a longer lifespan, they are way overpowered for what most people use them for. I have a five year old 3GHz 64-bit AMD box. It is still quite usable, I upgraded the video card recently, about $150, and it is still quite usable for gaming. I have no compelling reason to replace this five year old PC.

    In contrast every two years I can get an iPhone upgrade for free with a two year contract, sure its not the latest generation hardware but its a free hardware upgrade. Or I can splurge and spend $200 every two years and get the latest generation hardware.

    You can't directly compare PC vs phone sales if PCs are on a 6+ year purchase cycle and phones are on a 2 year purchase cycle. Keep in mind that these are not competing devices, they are complementary devices. Most people are going to own and use both PCs and phones.

    Tablets muddy the waters a little but they are still mostly complementary devices. Not many PC users can switch completely to tablets.

    1. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by reikae · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I wonder at which point smartphones will become fast enough so that people will stick the same phone for at least five years or so.

      Of course they're more prone to physically breaking than the desktop PC, so they'll be replaced sooner than desktops no matter how well they're performing.

    2. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PCs have a longer lifespan, they are way overpowered for what most people use them for. I have a five year old 3GHz 64-bit AMD box. It is still quite usable, I upgraded the video card recently, about $150, and it is still quite usable for gaming. I have no compelling reason to replace this five year old PC.

      Firstly; by "PC"s you should understand "laptops". Desktops are already quite rare in most companies outside call centres. Even workers who sit in the same place every day are expected to be able to move to a conference room with their computer and show a presentation. Secondly, you should understand that, for most users the system they use is Windows or OS X. They are "forced" to upgrade by their system becoming obsolete.

      With these criteria there is always something horribly wrong with the PC. The screens are almost always lower resolution, which turns out to be a limitation after a year or two. The power supplies are plugged in in a way that means that one simple mistake and your computer falls on the ground and breaks. MacBooks use a magnetic power supply that makes it rarer. Then we come to plasticky badly designed cases, which crack after a year or two. Admittedly that has got better, but I still think a new Mac is going to survive drops better than most PC laptops. This all adds up to the likelyhood that you, or someone you know, will be using your PC after five years is less than the chance for a Mac.

      What's killing the upgrade market now is that the PC manufacturers have got themselves into a classic trap of dependence on one supplier. Apple owns it's own systems, so decisions are made internally for both hardware and software. Microsoft's interests have never been the same as the as the PC manufacturers but they are now 100% opposed. Microsoft has to force Windows users onto tablets even if it kills the PC, because ten years down the line 80-90 percent of usage time is going to be on mobile devices. They must sacrifice large parts of the PC market even if it only buys them 10% of the tablet market since they know they can't control Android.

    3. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by smittyoneeach · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm still on my Galaxy IIS. An upgrade would be swell, but do I really NEED such? Not really, and I, for one, have shifted from a "want" economy to a "need" economy. One of the few ways you can easily stick it to The Man (or at least the IRS) these days is put the spare loot against standing debt, and not new gadgets.

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    4. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by dwater · · Score: 1

      > they are way overpowered for what most people use them for

      Oh, I don't know about that...it takes quite a bit of horsepower to do all that virus scanning.

      > can get an iPhone upgrade for free with a two year contract

      ^free^included ?

      --
      Max.
    5. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by dwater · · Score: 3, Insightful

      batteries expire and many 'common' (ie iPhone) phones batteries and also many uncommon (eg Nokia Windows Phones) aren't easily replaced - having said that, Steve managed to do it, so I guess I could :

      http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/item/14377_Sealed_vs_user-replaceable_bat.php
      http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CD4QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstevesrantsnraves.blogspot.com%2F&ei=J4vXUtnEAave7AaZsoDQBQ&usg=AFQjCNGCaxTH0h7jTf_VYeudTXpOmvPEIA&sig2=JVa_3FpkZfUqnzKj-aPYMg&bvm=bv.59568121,d.ZGU&cad=rja

      I recall him saying he is 'coming around' to the mindset of sealed batteries in a recent Phones Show too :

      http://www.youtube.com/user/stevelitchfield

      --
      Max.
    6. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you missed the point as did most, I believe the author was drawing comparisons to Software or the OS's. Not hardware...And he didn't compare the operations each system is limiting a users too..

      And your smartphone is a computer, most that own a personal computer use it almost exclusively for the internet.

    7. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For me personally the gains in performance are far out-weighed by the gains in efficiency from newer hardware in phones (which hopefully translates into longer battery life). If I had the option of a new phone that was twice as powerful or one that lasted twice as long I'd take the longer lasting one right away. Right now I have the CPU in my cell set to underclock and undervolt itself in an attempt to get some of that life back because I just don't need a dual core @ 1.5GHz when all I'm doing is texting or reading a book. Gaming is one of the few things I can use to justify paying extra for a higher-performance phone whenever I upgrade, but unless there is a must-have game out there that needs the performance (last upgrade it was GTA III/Vice City) I'll always get the extra battery life. I basically have to be tethered to the wall for power if I want to play a game or watch a movie with the CPU ungoverned for any extended length of time. I guess at some point phones will be both fast and efficient but even then some new technology or form-factor will come along and force people to upgrade (gotta have that 4k screen or T-wave scanner, right?). With new, high-end phone's being relatively cheap (especially in the US where you are encouraged to upgrade every 2 years with subsidized pricing through Verizon) vs a new, high-end desktop PC it's easier (for me at least) to justify purchasing a new one when my upgrade date comes around.

    8. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by amalcolm · · Score: 1

      I'd don't agree with the point about laptops. Every office window I stare into (London and south east England, including the city), I see rows of desktops, many with dual screens. YMMV

      --
      Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
    9. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linuxbot.

    10. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In contrast every two years I can get an iPhone upgrade for free with a two year contract, sure its not the latest generation hardware but its a free hardware upgrade. Or I can splurge and spend $200 every two years and get the latest generation hardware.

      Why do Americans insist that they get phones for free? If I apply the same thinking, I can get a FREE Apple iPhone 5s with a two year contract for ~29€/month + 1 to 50€/month. (If you hadn't guessed, the first part is down payment for the phone).

      I tend to prefer to pay upfront for my phones, so I don't get stuck with a operator for 2 years.

    11. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by perpenso · · Score: 5, Insightful

      PCs have a longer lifespan, they are way overpowered for what most people use them for. I have a five year old 3GHz 64-bit AMD box. It is still quite usable, I upgraded the video card recently, about $150, and it is still quite usable for gaming. I have no compelling reason to replace this five year old PC.

      Firstly; by "PC"s you should understand "laptops". Desktops are already quite rare in most companies outside call centres. Even workers who sit in the same place every day are expected to be able to move to a conference room with their computer and show a presentation.

      I'm sure that happens but I'm not seeing much of that. Of course I work in software development, not a whole lot of powerpoint presentations being created. Conference rooms tend to have a PC in them if needed. YMMV.

      Still, good point in mentioning laptops. However my laptops tend to last four or more years too. As I mentioned above I have a desktop PC that I use for gaming. Occasionally upgrading the video card and less frequently upgrading the motherboard (5+ years on the current one).

      Secondly, you should understand that, for most users the system they use is Windows or OS X. They are "forced" to upgrade by their system becoming obsolete.

      Just installed Windows 8.1 on that 5+ year old PC. My 2008 Macbook only recently became unable to run the current version of the Xcode development environment, its the last of the non-64 bit machines not supported by Mountain Lion or Mavericks. And most users are not doing Mac OS or iOS development where they are tied to applications that are quite aggressive about needing the latest OS. I really don't see many people being forced to get new systems, even laptops. YMMV.

      With these criteria there is always something horribly wrong with the PC. The screens are almost always lower resolution, which turns out to be a limitation after a year or two.

      If the laptop is a desktop replace then it would probably be plugged into an external monitor at one's desk.

      The power supplies are plugged in in a way that means that one simple mistake and your computer falls on the ground and breaks. MacBooks use a magnetic power supply that makes it rarer.

      Again in that desktop replacement environment that doesn't seem to happen too often. Admittedly in school I developed good freeze reflexes when I felt a little snag on my legs or feet. :-)

      Then we come to plasticky badly designed cases, which crack after a year or two. Admittedly that has got better, but I still think a new Mac is going to survive drops better than most PC laptops. This all adds up to the likelyhood that you, or someone you know, will be using your PC after five years is less than the chance for a Mac.

      My 2005 Dell Latitude with a crappy plastic case and all survived three years of school with all its tripping hazards, hard use from constantly moving around, etc. It eventually retired to a desktop where it still gets occasional use for Windows XP compatibility testing. YMMV. Admittedly the state of its batteries pretty much confines it to a desktop. It was replaced by that 2008 Macbook that only recently becomes trouble to use due to a lack of upgradability.

    12. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      I believe the author was drawing comparisons to Software or the OS's. Not hardware..

      That 5+ year old PC I mentioned just had Windows 8.1 installed on it. It runs just fine. Admittedly the video card was upgraded only a few months before the Windows upgrade.

      Also FWIW I recall reading somewhere that by age 2 years PCs don't really change their software much.

    13. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      but its a free hardware upgrade

      hahahaha. It is not free. You are paying the carrier for it, in the form of a long term contract renewal. Your cost (plus some) is amortized over the length of your contract. And if you don't upgrade your device, your carrier keeps your bill at the same price--even when the contract expires--and makes a massive profit on you.

    14. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by perpenso · · Score: 2

      In contrast every two years I can get an iPhone upgrade for free with a two year contract, sure its not the latest generation hardware but its a free hardware upgrade. Or I can splurge and spend $200 every two years and get the latest generation hardware.

      Why do Americans insist that they get phones for free? If I apply the same thinking, I can get a FREE Apple iPhone 5s with a two year contract for ~29€/month + 1 to 50€/month. (If you hadn't guessed, the first part is down payment for the phone).

      I tend to prefer to pay upfront for my phones, so I don't get stuck with a operator for 2 years.

      Its considered free since the monthly fee remains the same whether you keep the old phone or upgrade to a new phone. Sure the price of the phone is built into the monthly fee but until there is a discount for keeping the old phone the current pattern will hold.

    15. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      but its a free hardware upgrade

      hahahaha. It is not free. You are paying the carrier for it, in the form of a long term contract renewal. Your cost (plus some) is amortized over the length of your contract. And if you don't upgrade your device, your carrier keeps your bill at the same price--even when the contract expires--and makes a massive profit on you.

      Of course the cost of the phone is built into the monthly fee. The point is that this fee remains the same regardless of whether you keep using the old phone or get an upgrade. That is why the upgrade is effectively free.

    16. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Seumas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My guess is there are more cell phones sold each year than automobiles. OH NO, CARS ARE DYING!

      I'm really tired of these sensationalist tech pundits pratting on about X is dying because Y is increasing.

    17. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by dbIII · · Score: 5, Funny

      Firstly; by "PC"s you should understand "laptops". Desktops are already quite rare in most companies outside call centres

      Thus an idiot with limited awareness of the world around them is revealed.

      Look kids, if you don't have a fucking clue it's not really worth playing "let's pretend" here.

    18. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Of course the cost of the phone is built into the monthly fee. The point is that this fee remains the same regardless of whether you keep using the old phone or get an upgrade. That is why the upgrade is effectively free.

      The upgrade isn't free. If you don't upgrade, you get ripped off because you continue paying the loan for your first phone even when the phone is paid. If you "upgrade", you get a new phone, and a new loan.

    19. Re: Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by tleaf100 · · Score: 0

      we already did. as soon as the snapdragon1ghz turned up in the awful toshiba tgp 1and htc hd2 we had. early andy was awful,mid versions even worse,kitkat is big step in right direction,far more efficient and will very soon be running very well on the 6 year old htc hd2,(and its very early snapdragon that was set up for winmo6Â5 NOT android at all) if all you need/want is a fast smooth mobile,we have done that. if you want to be abl

    20. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Mr_Silver · · Score: 1

      PCs have a longer lifespan, they are way overpowered for what most people use them for. I have a five year old 3GHz 64-bit AMD box. It is still quite usable, I upgraded the video card recently, about $150, and it is still quite usable for gaming. I have no compelling reason to replace this five year old PC.

      People say this a lot but every time I've come to upgrade my computer (after a long period of time) I've found that the newer CPUs are incompatible with my existing motherboard.

      Once I've bought a new motherboard then I find that my existing graphics card and memory won't fit in the slots available because the connectors have changed. Then to top it off, the new graphics card and motherboard I bought need a greater wattage than my existing PSU can supply - so I need a new one of those too.

      In fact, I updated my computer recently and the only internal components that I could keep were the hard drive and the DVD rewriter. Everything else had to be replaced.

      --
      Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
    21. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by vux984 · · Score: 1

      In fact, I updated my computer recently and the only internal components that I could keep were the hard drive and the DVD rewriter. Everything else had to be replaced.

      Replaing the mainboard isn't an update. Its a new computer. ;)

      But yeah, replacing the mainboard, usually entails new RAM and a new CPU. That triplet usually goes together; although you can usually ram bump an existing system; almost nobody "upgrades" just the mobo or just the cpu. There's rarely any point.

      But hard drives, video cards, sound cards, wifi/nic cards, etc can usually run on a separate schedule and/or carry forwards (although a lot of that is now on the mainboard).

      Really, only video and drives are updated "regularly". So your experience was typical.

      However, the case, power supply (if you overbuy a bit), and accessories (keyboard, mouse, monitors, etc) all roll over from system to system. And that takes a huge bite out of even a major upgrade.

      In fact, I updated my computer recently and the only internal components that I could keep were the hard drive and the DVD rewriter. Everything else had to be replaced.

      Your system would have had to be pretty ancient to not be able to carry forward the video card. If your last system was still AGP... you've got nothing to complain about. It lasted forever.

    22. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People don't change the phones because they are not fast enough, they change them because the phone companies given them another one for "free" (or so they say). The moment the phone companies will understand that their business is to sell telephony and other services instead of devices, they will stop subsidizing them (which cost them money too, although I'm sure they don't pay the same price as a SIM-free unlocked phone, they have discounts for sure, which makes the whole "SIM-free" unlocked phone high price a scam) and people will keep the phones for longer times.
      There were (are?) a few countries in Europe at least where the phones were never (or seldom) subsidized, do you think people there changed their phone every year or so? No, they kept them for many years, and the phone company could not care less since as long as they get the monthly fee, they are happy.

      Furthermore, the reason phones "become slow" is because they "fix" them to do that, just like Apple "fix" its devices by making every OS upgrade slower on the older devices to force you to buy a new one, a phone like the iPhone4 is more than good enough for 99% of the people out there, but Apple will keep making it slower and/or not updating it so that it can sell you a new one. The same goes for the rest of the mobile phone manufacturers.
      If security updates were separated from OS upgrades, that wouldn't happen, but then again, what do the mobile phone manufacturers win then?

      This is all about programmed obsolesce that will destroy the planet.

    23. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by msobkow · · Score: 1

      The power supplies are plugged in in a way that means that one simple mistake and your computer falls on the ground and breaks.

      Silly me. I just don't drag my laptop around by the power cord, and have the power cord dropping behind the desk.

      I must be doing it wrong. Clearly the "Apple Way" of dragging laptops by their power cords is superior. :P

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    24. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I wonder at which point smartphones will become fast enough so that people will stick the same phone for at least five years or so.

      Actually smartphones have probably brought the average lifetime down, my longest living phone was the Nokia 3210. It did little more than calls and texts, but for many years that's all I cared to have in a phone and with the cheap replacable plastic cover and tiny screen it was almost indestructible too. Using a cheap third party battery replacement it stayed in service for many, many years and when I got a new one my dad used it still a while longer. Now there's actual new features worth having on new phones, my current phone is slightly over three years and I'm thinking about replacing it with the next year or so. It's not that I couldn't do without, but the nice-to-have compared to time spent using it makes it worth it. Because it's the device that's always around, it doesn't need to be more than that I'm already in my good chair or couch or bed and don't want to get up.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    25. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      My guess is there are more cell phones sold each year than automobiles. OH NO, CARS ARE DYING!

      Ding! Ding! Ding!

      The point here is Apple. This is an Apple press release.

      You notice it doesn't mention that in 2014 a billion Android devices will be sold. So, the headline should be, "Android Devices to Reach Parity with PC's in 2014".

      Or maybe, "Android Devices Outsell iOS Devices" but that one would make some readers cry and we can't have that 'round here..

      http://mashable.com/2014/01/07/google-android-device-sales-1-billion/

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    26. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I wonder at which point smartphones will become fast enough so that people will stick the same phone for at least five years or so.

      There's nothing stopping us from making a phone that would last that long now.

      Well, except for one tiny thing.

      Greed.

      Greed creates all kinds of things, like sealed batteries, unnecessary software upgrades, and other design guarantees that turn your $300 investment into dogshit in exactly [maximum-profit] months.

    27. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Swampash · · Score: 1

      You can't directly compare PC vs phone sales if PCs are on a 6+ year purchase cycle and phones are on a 2 year purchase cycle.

      But you CAN compare the business sense of two companies, one of which has stubbornly clung to the market that has a 6+ year purchase cycle, and the other which has pivoted to become the world's premium provider in the market that has the 2 year purchase cycle.

      One of these strategies was clever. The other was stupid.

    28. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Drethon · · Score: 1

      My two year old droid bionic is running just fine for me except for the battery is dying and I haven't been able to find anyone selling new droid bionic batteries anymore (amazon lies or else the batteries are seriously subpar if new).

    29. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

      What bubble do you live in where laptops outnumber desktops? Virtually every client of mine has mostly desktops for their worker bees.

    30. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Drethon · · Score: 1

      While I think his statement is a tad excessive, I work for a software contracting company and my company as well as two of the companies we contract for have virtually eliminated desktops for software development. The only desktops remaining are lower powered applications where the old desktop wont need replaced for a few years. This is mostly so that they can get us to work from home but whatever...

    31. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by TheloniousToady · · Score: 1

      Right. I wondered why PCs and phones were even being lumped into the same category for comparison, especially since Apple's OS X and iOS are considered to be separate products. The strongest conceptually similarity between PCs and phones is that they both contain microprocessors. But if that's the criteria, Toyota outsells them all, since every automobile contains multiple microprocessors.

    32. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a software developer (in biomedical research) and _everyone_ in my department (software engineers, statisticians, and bioinformaticians) has a laptop as their primary computer. Most of us bring our work home, at least occasionally. I usually work from home a couple days a week. Then there are meetings, conferences, etc. No one wants to be chained to their desk (I do have a beefy Linux workstation under my desk, but I rarely use it). We have an HPC cluster for the really computationally or memory intensive work. Our replacement cycle for laptops used to be every 2.5-3 years, but I think some users are stretching that out longer now. One interesting thing is that when I came to this company, I was the first mac in my department. Now I would say about 90% of our department (at my site) are using Macs. For some reason, we seem to have more windows users at our new site (in the last couple years our group has expanded to a facility in another state)

    33. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by nightsky30 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. They seem to be comparing device numbers, and yes, all those devices are technically computers. But a tablet or simple mp3 player is not the same type of computing device as a desktop PC. They should do a 1:1 comparison in each computing device category. An iPad and to a much further extent an iPod can not do all the things a Desktop PC may do.

    34. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by nightsky30 · · Score: 2

      *Sigh*, I wish more people thought this way. Our societies, economies, and governments would be so much better. There is too much waste and ridiculous spending going on! People don't live within their means.

    35. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Cwix · · Score: 1

      You seriously do not understand. I will break it down for you.

      Lets say you have an old phone you are using. You pay 100 dollars monthly for service.
      You go get the new free upgrade. You pay exactly the same, 100 dollars a month.

      There is no added loan to pay off. The "payment" for the phone is hidden in your monthly payments. You will pay the same monthly payment whether or not you go get the new phone. There is no change for sticking with your old one. In fact you are the sucker if you dont go get the upgrade, you are already paying for it because it is already hidden in the monthly charges.

      --
      You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
    36. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Just FYI May 2003 was the first month laptops passed desktops in terms of units (an outlier) and I believe by 2008 it was true for every month in terms of units. At this point we typically see stuff like:

      Lenovo: $4.5b laptop, $2.5b desktop / quarter
      2003 vs. 2013 USA consumer desktops fell by 50% while consumer laptops rose by 300%.
      Canalysis and Gartner disagree on exactly when this happened globally but everyone agrees it is true now.

    37. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Why do Americans insist that they get phones for free?

      Because American cellular pricing in the postpay market (the upper 60%) is highly non transparent. Unless you buy cellular service commercially or think it about it carefully or have it explained to you it is hard to understand. The USA postpay market is not like the European market.

    38. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by jbolden · · Score: 1

      I wondered why PCs and phones were even being lumped into the same category for comparison,

      Because consumers and businesses have already found them to be semi-substitutable. That's standard industry analysis. TV and Internet entertainment aren't remotely the same thing but they can partially substitute for one another, thus they compete.

    39. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Fishchip · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, I've been in a few offices that because of HQ's purchasing policy now have nearly 100% laptops, locked to their workstation. Purpose defeated,

    40. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      I wonder at which point smartphones will become fast enough so that people will stick the same phone for at least five years or so.

      An iPhone 5s just about beats the slowest 2010 MacBook in benchmarks.

    41. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here in the normal world (europe) we do get discounts if we don't take the phone.

    42. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by sribe · · Score: 1

      My 2008 Macbook only recently became unable to run the current version of the Xcode development environment, its the last of the non-64 bit machines not supported by Mountain Lion or Mavericks.

      The last MacBook that was non-64-bit stopped shipping in November 2006. The last MacBook Pro that was non-64-bit stopped shipping in October 2006.

      If it doesn't support Mountain Lion, that wouldn't be all that recent either...

      Your post certainly does not seem like the kind of troll that we see around here from people pretending to own Apple gear, but it sure seems confused... (Perhaps your MacBook is 64-bit, but one of the ones that doesn't have the GPU support that Apple requires for Mountain Lion?)

    43. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      batteries expire and many 'common' (ie iPhone) phones batteries and also many uncommon (eg Nokia Windows Phones) aren't easily replaced - having said that, Steve managed to do it, so I guess I could :

      Replacing an iPhone battery is really easy. Take it to an Apple Store, hand over £55, and they put in a new battery for you. Now if you mean "end user replaceable", that's a different matter. And "replaceable by a guy on a market stall" is also a different matter.

    44. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      You seriously do not understand. I will break it down for you.

      You buy a phone with a contract. However, you pay nothing for the phone. Instead, the cost is hidden in 24 monthly payments of your contract.

      After 24 months, your phone is paid for. You would reasonably expect that your contract now gets cheaper, but it doesn't. You still pay 1/24th of the price of a new phone + profit every month. You get ripped off.

      If you accept a new phone, then the same payment changes from "ripoff" to "paying back a loan for your new phone". The phone isn't free, you pay for it. With decent companies (T-Mobile in the USA, O2 depending on contract in the UK), after 24 months your monthly payments drop. Unless you take a new phone, so they go up again. If you use your phone for 3 or 4 years, you save a lot of money. Just not with the usual ripoff contracts.

    45. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Right. I wondered why PCs and phones were even being lumped into the same category for comparison, especially since Apple's OS X and iOS are considered to be separate products. The strongest conceptually similarity between PCs and phones is that they both contain microprocessors. But if that's the criteria, Toyota outsells them all, since every automobile contains multiple microprocessors.

      From a product point of view, it doesn't make sense. It makes sense if you look just at money. Let's say comparing the revenue that Samsung makes from selling refrigerators to Apple's Apple TV business. Doesn't make sense from a product point of view, but I would be interested to know, because I have genuinely no idea how much people spend on refrigerators.

      Now people saying that Xbox and Windows phones should be added: This is not a Microsoft vs. Apple comparison, it is PC vs. Apple hardware. Apple sells a lot, lot more computers than Microsoft and always has :-) (someone will not get this, I'm sure).

    46. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm still on my Galaxy IIS. An upgrade would be swell, but do I really NEED such? Not really, and I, for one, have shifted from a "want" economy to a "need" economy.

      That is a good idea regardless of what the economy is doing.

      One of the few ways you can easily stick it to The Man (or at least the IRS) these days is put the spare loot against standing debt, and not new gadgets.

      How does that make a difference to the IRS? You still earned the money and paid income tax on it. The money is now revenue to the bank, they will pay tax on it (OK, their a bank and they own part of Washington so they actually won't, but they ought to) as well. Why would the IRS care whether your money went to pay off your own personal debt or if you used it to buy new trinkets? They only way to keep the IRS out of the picture is to stuff the money under your mattress, but then it doesn't satisfy either of the aims you mentioned earlier.

    47. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure that happens but I'm not seeing much of that. Of course I work in software development, not a whole lot of powerpoint presentations being created. Conference rooms tend to have a PC in them if needed. YMMV.

      Working in software development also, I have 1 desktop (linux), 1 laptop (linux) and 1 laptop (windows). The desktop system is a Intel i7 980X which which is 4 years old now, and still quite sprightly. I guess I might accept an upgrade if someone offered me a dual Xeon E5 2600 series, with 16 to 24 cores.

      I also wonder if the 'Windows PC' numbers take into account people who build their own systems, because that's probably a market that won't be swayed by laptops, especially since atleast I tend to upgrade my desktops a piece at a time.

    48. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What bubble do you live in where laptops outnumber desktops? Virtually every client of mine has mostly desktops for their worker bees.

      Laptops have outsold desktops for a decade. Many (most?) large companies have laptops for their workers instead of desktops. Your clients are the odd ones out with their desktops.

    49. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a dev in the bay area - every place I've worked in the last 5 years has been all about laptops with docking stations.

    50. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do Americans insist that they get phones for free? If I apply the same thinking, I can get a FREE Apple iPhone 5s with a two year contract for ~29€/month + 1 to 50€/month. (If you hadn't guessed, the first part is down payment for the phone). I tend to prefer to pay upfront for my phones, so I don't get stuck with a operator for 2 years.

      Because our government is controlled by corporations instead of citizens, many phones are compatible with only one carrier. To change operators requires trading in the phone, instead of just swapping a SIM card.

    51. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by MachineShedFred · · Score: 2

      Firstly; by "PC"s you should understand "laptops". Desktops are already quite rare in most companies outside call centers.

      Bzzzt. Incorrect.

      Checking in from a Fortune 50 here. I'm the guy that validates and certifies all of our computing "endpoint" hardware. We have a fleet of somewhere close to 8,000 laptops and upwards of 50,000 desktops. And another 30,000 thin clients running Linux.

      Desktops are the rule, laptops the exception. Why? A desktop with enterprise management that will last for 4 years costs $500*, a laptop that might last for 3 costs $700*. Laptops have a shorter average lifetime and a higher per-unit cost.

      *negotiated pricing with tier-1 OEMs such as Dell, HP, and Lenovo; based upon volume of purchasing.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    52. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by FreonTrip · · Score: 1

      At least for the Lumia 820 replacing the battery's trivial. Just pop off the plastic shell and the battery's exposed and removable - in fact you have to take it out in order to replace the SD card or put in a microSD card for expansion. That was a major incentive for purchasing it, in fact: I like having some ability to expand a phone's storage capacity without being subjected to markup, or replace a battery when it starts underperforming. And between Google's increasing resistance to upgradeable storage and how badly I got burned by the Cliq XT I suffered through for two years, I wasn't willing to play in Android's ballpark this time aroud.

    53. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just FYI May 2003 was the first month laptops passed desktops in terms of units (an outlier) and I believe by 2008 it was true for every month in terms of units. At this point we typically see stuff like:

      Lenovo: $4.5b laptop, $2.5b desktop / quarter
      2003 vs. 2013 USA consumer desktops fell by 50% while consumer laptops rose by 300%.
      Canalysis and Gartner disagree on exactly when this happened globally but everyone agrees it is true now.

      What's your point? That disparity would need to be close to 10:1 to make "Desktops are already quite rare in most companies" even remotely close to being true.

    54. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      My 2008 Macbook only recently became unable to run the current version of the Xcode development environment, its the last of the non-64 bit machines not supported by Mountain Lion or Mavericks.

      The last MacBook that was non-64-bit stopped shipping in November 2006.

      It was the last of the plastic MacBooks, self identifies as "Early 2008". The CPU is a Core Duo and is 64-bit capable but Apple did not write 64-bit drivers (or something like that) for this system. It is not compatible with the 64-bit versions of Mac OS X. That makes it a non-64 bit machine regardless of what the CPU is capable of.

      Your post certainly does not seem like the kind of troll that we see around here from people pretending to own Apple gear, but it sure seems confused... (Perhaps your MacBook is 64-bit, but one of the ones that doesn't have the GPU support that Apple requires for Mountain Lion?)

      In other words I am confused or I am correct? That's an odd opinion. :-)

    55. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > I wonder at which point smartphones will become fast enough so that people will stick the same phone for at least five years or so.

      That would be ... now. I think we've approached the point of the curve where smart phones are good enough, a point that PCs reached a little after the turn of the century. People trade in their iphones for the next shiny object because that's part of the culture, not because they're that much better. Test by: What was the real difference between the 4 and the 4s? A piece of software. But that didn't stop people from flocking to the store on trade-in day.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    56. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Good for you. If only more people had this level of maturity.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    57. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Sporkinum · · Score: 1

      People need to quit calling these devices smart phones. They are computers that have a secondary voice communication function.
      That being said, I am a fan of cheap burners. I have a sanyo miro I got for free when I purchased a block of prepaid time. Currently use it about $10 a month to make actual phone calls.

      --
      "He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
    58. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by sribe · · Score: 1

      In other words I am confused or I am correct? That's an odd opinion. :-)

      I assumed you were correct that your MacBook will not run the latest OS, but I was sure the reason you gave did not match the Mac you described and therefore could not be correct. However, I may have been wrong about that. The Mac you describe has a 64-bit processor--I thought it also had 64-bit EFI and 64-bit drivers, but I tried to find a reference for that, and found conflicting information, including an Apple article which at least implies that it does not, which is as close to the final word on the subject as I could find.

      The CPU is a Core Duo and is 64-bit capable...

      The Core Duo was 32-bit. The Core 2 Duo was 64-bit. Your Mac has a Core 2 Duo, not a Core Duo ;-)

    59. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      ...perhaps that's the sampling problem here. The more hipsters you have the more likely you are to see a predominance of laptops. Prevailing corporate culture may be a factor as well. The kind of slave mentality that is common in Northern California is simply not tolerated in other places.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    60. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Except it's not the false dichotomy that you're trying to pretend is relevant. It's a wide spectrum of companies with your particular pet corporation's position being destroyed by competition.

      This article is just more of the usual nonsense trying to create a marketing reality that doesn't really exist.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    61. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > Because consumers and businesses have already found them to be semi-substitutable.

      No. This is just butthurt fanboys trying to pretend that they have won the second round of the platform wars by defeating the platform that spanked them the first time around.

      It's all self-delusion. Distorting the facts and changing definitions so finally Apple and it's users seem less like losers.

      "We're on the winning team. Really we are."

      It's just consumerism run amok.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    62. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Yaztromo · · Score: 1

      It was the last of the plastic MacBooks, self identifies as "Early 2008". The CPU is a Core Duo and is 64-bit capable but Apple did not write 64-bit drivers (or something like that) for this system. It is not compatible with the 64-bit versions of Mac OS X. That makes it a non-64 bit machine regardless of what the CPU is capable of.

      Your system runs a Core 2 Duo, and is indeed 64-bit capable.

      Here's the rub, however -- your machine only has a 32-bit EFI, which means it can only boot in 32-bit mode. In OS X, this means it can only boot the 32-bit kernel and associated kernel modules. The 32-bit kernel can still run 64-bit applications -- but you'll still have the various limitations of a 32-bit kernel (although as the OS X 32-bit kernel implements PAE, you can still bust the 4GB addressing limitations you see in 32-bit versions of Windows client OS's).

      The most recent OS X releases ship with only a 64-bit kernel; systems running with a 32-bit EFI are thus left out of the cold.

      As such, it's not that your CPU can't handle 64-bit computation, or that Apple didn't write suitable drivers for your system. It's a boot issue due to the 32-bit EFI. So now you know.

      Yaz

    63. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by jbolden · · Score: 1

      What are you talking about? In every industry substitution is used.

      butthurt, fanboys, winning team? As far as I can make your comments... Apple for 5 1/2 years running they have over 85% (often in the 90s) of the profits from x86 laptops sales. In what possible sense did they get spanked. Tandy, Wise, Commodore, DEC, ICL, Memotech... How many of the companies from when Apple and IBM were competitive are even still around other than Apple?

    64. Re: Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Toaster don't count. Web usage by mobile device paints an interesting picture though.

    65. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by otuz · · Score: 1

      iPhone 4 and newer iPhone battery replacement is fairly trivial:

      1: Buy a battery and a pentalobe driver or bit from dealextreme or ebay for about $10
      2: Uscrew the two case screws
      3: Slide the back cover off
      4: Unscrew the battery connector screw
      5: Replace the battery and reassemble the back cover

      I've done it about once a year on my iPhone 4, once the average recharge interval goes from about five days to about three days.

    66. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I think his point is he saw one of the people he has marked as "foe" write something so decided he had to find some way to suggest it was incorrect.
      This place can look like a kindergarten at times.

    67. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I should also mention that when people even manage to compare hardware that is mostly similar (MacBooks to PC laptops) they seem to almost invariably compare a cheap PC to a much more expensive Mac. Tried looking at what can be had in the PC world for 1,000, which is the entry point for a MacBook? My T61p has a 1920x1080 display.

      So instead we compare Macs to 'most PC laptops' a mythical grouping defined by grap sold at walmart and best buy. and just ignore all machines that are anywhere near price parity with a Mac.

    68. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

      Most of my clients are Fortune 100. Yes there are more laptops than there used to be, but the worker bees still have desktops at most of them. I guess YMMV.

    69. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Don't know about that. Going from my iPhone 4 to my 5s got me massive improvements in processing power and camera, and a lot of good extra features. The processing power shows up in web browsing (which seems to require astonishing numbers of computrons nowadays). I got some real advantages. On the other hand, the greatly increased power in my home desktop over my five-year-old one doesn't usually matter (except for the SSD, which I could have added to my old box), and the real reason I replaced it was that the old one became unreliable, and when looking at my options I was attracted by "teh shiny".

      I don't know how the iPhone 7 will compare to the 5s (assuming I keep planning my three-year cycle), or for that matter how long the 5s would last (my original iPhone developed touch screen problems about the time the 4 came out). We'll have to see.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    70. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Most stuff I do on my desktop I can do on my Nexus 7, although some things become very clumsy and slow if I use the wrong platform. For many people, there really isn't a practical difference between an iPad with a keyboard and a laptop, and I have a good many relatives I'd set up with iPad and keyboard instead of a more conventional computer. (My relatives tend not to be the technical type.) This isn't true of my desktop and my Honda, although I'm sure my Civic has more expensive computer systems than anything else I've got. Realistically, we're looking at general-purpose computers here, although I don't know why we're comparing Windows boxes to all Apple computers (not that Microsoft has a good market share in phones and tablets, but it's something).

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    71. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Don't know about that. Going from my iPhone 4 to my 5s got me massive improvements in processing power and camera, and a lot of good extra features. The processing power shows up in web browsing (which seems to require astonishing numbers of computrons nowadays). I got some real advantages. On the other hand, the greatly increased power in my home desktop over my five-year-old one doesn't usually matter (except for the SSD, which I could have added to my old box), and the real reason I replaced it was that the old one became unreliable, and when looking at my options I was attracted by "teh shiny".

      I don't know how the iPhone 7 will compare to the 5s (assuming I keep planning my three-year cycle), or for that matter how long the 5s would last (my original iPhone developed touch screen problems about the time the 4 came out). We'll have to see.

      Clearly you missed a couple of cycles. You should have traded the 4 for a 4s in 2011, the 4s for a 5 in 2012, and the 5 for a 5s in 2013. Or so a machead I know tells me. Gotta keep current.

      I kept my Droid X until it stopped making calls. I currently have a RAZR Maxx which I will keep until it no longer functions. My carrier periodically informs me that I'm eligible for an upgrade. I tell them to get lost.

      I do consumer PC support as a sideline, and observe that often "unreliability" in a computer is software, not hardware related. In December I received a laptop to repair or dispose of (depending on the cost of fixing). First thing I noticed was that the antivirus was incapacitated. I took out the drive and plugged it into one of my machines. My antivirus immediately started going crazy. Twelve major viruses. One reimage later, and the laptop runs as if new. The root cause was that the customer was not practicing safe computing.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    72. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder when my cellphone will also be my "PC"?

      http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/ubuntu-for-android

    73. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by gig · · Score: 1

      > The strongest conceptually similarity between PCs and phones is that they both contain microprocessors

      That is true only if you are talking about generic PC's and generic phones, not iOS devices, which are PC's, with PC heritage, from the oldest PC company, that run PC apps (native C/C++.)

      The strongest conceptual similarity between PC's and iOS devices is that they both contain OS X — the xnu kernel, OS X subsystems and libraries — and they both run Cocoa apps, which are native C/C++, the standard for PC apps. iOS runs many of the exact same apps from the Mac, like Pages and GarageBand and iMovie, as well as PC apps from Windows, Unix, Xbox, PlayStation, and even DOS PC's. That is much more similarity than “has a microprocessor.”

      I have an iPad here that runs Pages most of the time, and it replaced a Mac that ran Pages most of the time. The microprocessor in the iPad is ARM and in the Mac it was Intel and I never cared at all about that. The first time I ran Pages, it was on a Mac with PowerPC microprocessor. So the microprocessors are not nearly as similar between my Mac PC's and iOS PC's as are the apps and operating system, which are the same.

      > Apple's OS X and iOS are considered to be separate products

      No. OS X and iOS are not products. MacBooks and iMacs and iPads and iPhones are products. OS X and iOS are components that are used in various products. MacBook and iMac both use OS X, while iPad and iPhone both use iOS.

      OS X is Apple's operating system with a mouse-based user/app interface. iOS is Apple's operating system with touch-based user/app interface. Underneath the user/app interface, they are the same operating system, with the same kernel, libraries, and subsystems.

      If you're saying that an iMac running Pages on OS X is a PC and an iPad running (the exact same) Pages on iOS is not, I think that is crazy talk.

    74. Re:Can't directly compare PC and phone sales ... by Seumas · · Score: 1

      What's funny is, I didn't realize until your post that it was "Apple". Every time I read the word "Apple", my brain interpreted it as "mobile".

  14. in other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hot Wheels moved more product than Ford last month. Hot Wheels stocks are spiking, as projections indicate they are on track to be the #1 producer of automobiles by the end of the year.

    1. Re:in other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reminds me of this: http://www.cloetta.com/en/article/ahlgrens-bilar-swedens-most-sold-car-launches-a-revolutionary-new-model/

    2. Re:in other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, by 2019, there will be more Lego mifigs than humans. Major changes in targeted advertising will be required to exploit this new market.

  15. Apple "devices"? by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Informative

    Apple "devices"? So they're including iPods and phones in this? lol

    Apple marketing at its best.

    1. Re:Apple "devices"? by aristotle-dude · · Score: 0

      Yeah, both the iPod touch and iPhone run iOS just like the iPad and iOS is based on OS X... so... what is your point exactly?

      --
      Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
    2. Re:Apple "devices"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great, now some genius is going to come and reclaim my work laptop to leave me with just an iPhone. All done under the premise that it "runs iOS which is based on OSX, which makes it a real computing device.". I can't wait for them to port Visio over!

    3. Re:Apple "devices"? by rsmith-mac · · Score: 1

      Apple marketing at its best.

      Even Apple isn't this stupid. This is an analyst trolling for attention.

    4. Re:Apple "devices"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are we also including (some) TVs, Digital boxes and Routers in sold linux systems?

    5. Re:Apple "devices"? by bloodhawk · · Score: 1

      then why only compare windows PCs? what about all the embedded devices in cars, atm's, even the xbox runs a windows kernel.

    6. Re:Apple "devices"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In that case, there are more toys with computers in them than there are windows PCs as well. What is the point of the comparison in the first place? An Apple "device" is not comparable in any way with any kind of PC other than they both contain a computer.

    7. Re:Apple "devices"? by Swampash · · Score: 2

      iOS is a fork of OS X. Those two operating systems are far more closely related than, say, Windows 95 and Windows 8 - both of which are included as just "Windows" on the graph.

    8. Re:Apple "devices"? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Horace Dediu is one of the most respected mobile analysts on the planet. He isn't trolling for attention, he has plenty of it already.

    9. Re:Apple "devices"? by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      If it were a fair comparison, where's Android/Linux? Android alone is on over 500 MILLION devices. Microsoft AND Apple will be dead within a decade. This is just a fluff piece to make Apple look like it's getting somewhere.

    10. Re:Apple "devices"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? IOS is about as closely related to macos as the code running on a Cray is to my Texas instruments calculator from high school. Lol

  16. Re:well apple does get a boost with the new mac pr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    well apple does get a boost with the new mac pro after of years of been stuck in the past.

    Because everyone will want to have a computer on their desk that looks like a trash can

  17. Re: Troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I love how that site has exactly four companies listed as using DRM.

  18. lets toss xbox in the mix by Osgeld · · Score: 4, Insightful

    since were comparing the entire apple product line to one of microsofts, I think its only fair to toss in the second most popular MS product line out there and see how those numbers add up

    1. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by theurge14 · · Score: 0

      Are people using their Xboxes as PC replacements?

    2. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

      since were comparing the entire apple product line to one of microsofts, I think its only fair to toss in the second most popular MS product line out there and see how those numbers add up

      Does the Xbox have a word processor? A spreadsheet? A presentation creator? Does it have any photo manipulation apps or drawing programs with layers and filters? Are there any movie editors, effects composition apps? Does it have any music creation software available for it?

      --
      Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
    3. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by vux984 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Are people using their Xboxes as PC replacements?

      Are they using their ipod's and apple TVs as PC replacements?

    4. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's probably more of that than people using iPods as PC replacements.

    5. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by kamapuaa · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes!

      --

      Sent from my XBox360

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    6. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not even a rounding error, total xbox 360 sales were 80m units over 8 years, Apple's moving almost that many units a quarter.

    7. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by bloodhawk · · Score: 2

      since were comparing the entire apple product line to one of microsofts, I think its only fair to toss in the second most popular MS product line out there and see how those numbers add up

      Does the Xbox have a word processor? A spreadsheet? A presentation creator? Does it have any photo manipulation apps or drawing programs with layers and filters? Are there any movie editors, effects composition apps? Does it have any music creation software available for it?

      Does an Ipod?

    8. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does the Xbox have a word processor? A spreadsheet? A presentation creator? Does it have any photo manipulation apps or drawing programs with layers and filters? Are there any movie editors, effects composition apps? Does it have any music creation software available for it?

      Because all of those are clearly available for the iPod Touch...

    9. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GP0wned!

    10. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      since were comparing the entire apple product line to one of microsofts, I think its only fair to toss in the second most popular MS product line out there and see how those numbers add up

      Does the Xbox have a word processor? A spreadsheet? A presentation creator? Does it have any photo manipulation apps or drawing programs with layers and filters? Are there any movie editors, effects composition apps? Does it have any music creation software available for it?

      Does an Ipod?

      And this is exactly why it is now irrelevant to count sales unless you want to talk about total sales of every fucking device.

      Apple has already started taking their desktop OS and turning it into an iOS.

      Microsoft has created zero doubt that they also have the standard "system" model in mind with the Windows tablet, phone, and desktop all looking, feeling, and smelling the same.

      Google/Android is doing it too.

      Therefore, EVERY device is going to seem like every other device by the same vendor. After a while, every device will seem like every device no matter the vendor. You want features or software? There's your App store. Have at it. 100 million apps don't give me this shit you can't find a solution.

      Your desktop at work will become one-half of your cell phone a decade from now. The other half of your phone will be your home PC with docking stations everywhere. Data will live in the cloud. Powerful "workstations" will become thousands of dollars and live where they are needed or justified. Tablets and cell phones that connect to 100" HDTV displays will be "good enough" for 95% of consumers.

    11. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      None of those define a computer....with an XBox you can game and text. For a lot of people that's ALL they do on their iPads and iPhones.

    12. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

      I did not mention a web browser. Even the Wii has a web browser.

      --
      Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
    13. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

      since were comparing the entire apple product line to one of microsofts, I think its only fair to toss in the second most popular MS product line out there and see how those numbers add up

      Does the Xbox have a word processor? A spreadsheet? A presentation creator? Does it have any photo manipulation apps or drawing programs with layers and filters? Are there any movie editors, effects composition apps? Does it have any music creation software available for it?

      Does an Ipod?

      The iPod Touch? Yes, it has all of those applications because it runs iOS and iOS 7 comes with a word processor, spreadsheet, presentation creator, a photo editor, video editor and music composition program. Also, various third party iOS apps work on the iPod touch. This article is talking about the iPod touch, iPad and iPhone all of which run iOS.

      --
      Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
    14. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

      Does the Xbox have a word processor? A spreadsheet? A presentation creator? Does it have any photo manipulation apps or drawing programs with layers and filters? Are there any movie editors, effects composition apps? Does it have any music creation software available for it?

      Because all of those are clearly available for the iPod Touch...

      Yes, they are. There are the iWorks apps and the iLife apps which are available with iOS 7. Then there are various tools from Adobe, Pinnacle and Autodesk.

      --
      Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
    15. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IOS has those things?

    16. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

      IOS has those things?

      Yes, in fact, the majority of those apps mentioned are free from Apple with iOS 7 and the rest are relatively cheap from companies like Adobe, Pinnacle and Autodesk.

      --
      Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
    17. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was just a silly joke.

    18. Re:lets toss xbox in the mix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually the article was referring to all Apple devices. It clearly states it.

  19. Samsung still makes regular cells... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just sayin'.

  20. Windows 8 has bombed for business users. by warewolfsmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Loads of reviews have been written about Windows 8. Some loved it. Some hated it. But they all say the same thing: Windows 8 will require a major retraining for Windows users and there doesn't seem to be some great big advantage for all the relearning, particularly for business users. If Windows 9 retains the Metro interface then Microsoft really is doomed.

    1. Re:Windows 8 has bombed for business users. by ATMAvatar · · Score: 1

      If you run it in desktop mode, there's very little re-training to do. The only significant difference is that it has a start screen rather than a menu. The lack of a menu hierarchy is a bit jarring to those who relied upon it, but the searching works just fine, and you can still pin important items to the task bar. I have run 8.1 at work since my workstation upgrade a month or so ago, and I have very few complaints.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    2. Re:Windows 8 has bombed for business users. by socode · · Score: 2

      > I have very few complaints.
      Couldn't find your email program, huh?

    3. Re:Windows 8 has bombed for business users. by dbIII · · Score: 1

      there's very little re-training to do

      There shouldn't be any required, because after all how many businesses out there actually train their office staff to do the simple stuff? They are supposed to get it in high school or under their own steam.
      If a new release means businesses need to start providing the sort of training they've never done before then I can see why keeping Win7 sounds like a better choice.

      As for me, I've only used win8 for a couple of minutes so can't comment on anything after an initial impression that it's an incredibly fucking stupid idea to put invisible controls at screen corners. While it may work very well once you've got used to it what appears to be a common "what is this shit?" initial reaction is not likely to help sales. The showstopper for me is that the machines in my workplace that run MS Windows are only there to run some stuff that hasn't been fully ported to Win8 yet - the same problem delayed deployment to Win7 for a couple of years. While that is probably sue to some weird stuff in the software that has nothing to do with MS, the entire point of having a computer is to be able to run the applications that you want to run.

    4. Re:Windows 8 has bombed for business users. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It only requires retraining if you're a useless lemming with absolutely no ability to form a thought.

  21. Re: well apple does get a boost with the new mac p by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, I remember when it was common to spend $3000 on a desktop PC. I think a Compaq Deskpro 386 cost about that.

  22. Windows has lost what made it a need. by Zombie+Ryushu · · Score: 0

    DOS ran Doom, Mac and Amiga didn't.
    DOS ran Warcraft, and Rise of the Triad, and Jazz Jackrabbit, and Hexen, and Wing Commander.
    DOS ran Quake, and Elder Scrolls Dagger Fall

    All these things were of the caliber that made you want a DOS Machine

    Windows 95:
    Gave us Starcraft, and Soul Trap, and Mechwarrior 2,
    Gave us easy Access to the Internet. (compared to DOS at the time where it was possible)

    Windows 8:
    Gives us Lock down and stores, our games don't run, and our computers run slow. We are constantly bombarded by Security holes, spam, and incompatible sites. We are hamstrung by Corporate sponsored computer Viruses called DRM that make it so our machines don't function the way they should. Because Companies want to abuse us, rob us blind.

    iPads:
    Are Non-PCs that exist on completely on a jailed walled garden environment, easy to use, but seen as an "Internet Toy" by the Masses.

    Android Pads: Only marginally more open than iPad. (and that varies by provider.)

    The point is this:Windows sold well because we had to have it to play the games that Consoles couldn't.
    Windows sold well later because the Internet and Corporate Communication practically required it.

    Now, Windows doesn't run the games we want. Linux and Wine can in some cases run games that (Modern) Windows can't. Windows isn't required for communication and connectivity.

    1. Re:Windows has lost what made it a need. by GrahamCox · · Score: 1

      DOS ran Doom, Mac and Amiga didn't.

      Fell at the first hurdle, so no need to really bother with the rest. Seeing the world through the prism of gaming, it's hardly a surprise that you don't have a clue about how the real world works.

    2. Re:Windows has lost what made it a need. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "iPads:
      Are Non-PCs"

      Wrong. PC means personal computer. An iPad IS a computer in every CS sense (von Neumann, IPO(S)) and it is very personal. There is no reason to think of them as non-PCs.
      PC != Windows or big beige box.

      "but seen as an "Internet Toy" by the Masses."

      No. It is only seen as a toy by rapid Apple haters & trolls. Not by the masses. Contrary to basement neakbeards believe, Apple devices are still popular (otherwise Apple wouldn't rake in 200 billion dollar per year in revenue) and are even used by many, many Fortune500 companies and many, many schools, hospitals and other professionals.

    3. Re:Windows has lost what made it a need. by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > An iPad IS a computer in every CS sense (von Neumann, IPO(S)) and it is very personal. There is no reason to think of them as non-PCs.

      There is a very big reason to view them as non-PCs.

      PCs were originally a rebellion against centrally managed IT. The "curated" approach to managing computers was interfering with work. People wanted to get stuff done and the platform nazis were interfering.

      The P in PC stands for PERSONAL.

      That means it's fully in the user's control.

      Any tablet that is based on a reprise of the centralized IT management mindset is no PC at all.

      A mainframe is a Turing machine. That doesn't make it a PC though.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    4. Re: Windows has lost what made it a need. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your private iPad isn't managed by anyone else than you. Don't spread FUD. A vetted AppStore isn't the same as centrally managed terminals. Your analogy with mainframes is stupid at best.

      An iPad IS a PC. End of.

  23. Android numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The install base of "Android" is artificially large, because it's on all sorts of devices that you can't get iOS or Windows on. Those "mini PC android stick" devices, for instance. I would be keen to see the worldwide install base for, say, smartphones that retailed for $700+. I think it would be pretty even.

    1. Re:Android numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sigh....Google only counts Google certified Android devices (they're the ones that have the Play store and Google apps, you know). Google doesn't even count those Chinese smartphones, tablets or gadgets.

    2. Re: Android numbers by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      So Apple don't count Apple TV in that?

    3. Re:Android numbers by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      Would you calculate Windows' installed base by counting only $2k+ gaming PCs?

    4. Re:Android numbers by symbolset · · Score: 1

      Why would someone pay $700 for a phone? An unlocked off-contract Nexus 5 costs only half that much.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    5. Re:Android numbers by isorox · · Score: 1

      Why would someone pay $700 for a phone? An unlocked off-contract Nexus 5 costs only half that much.

      A dollar a day for a device you spend an hour a day on?

      I can't believe people spend $5 a day on Starbucks.

  24. Can't compare #s per household either... by HockeyPuck · · Score: 1

    I have a phone.
    My wife has a phone.
    Our son has a phone.

    My family then has one computer with three accounts on it.

    Sure there are families with multiple computers and one phone, but I doubt that one phone is passed around each day to a different family member. A mobile phone isn't consumed like it was a mobile version of a land line (one line per household).

    So instead of selling one device per household with a computer, you sell one device per member of household. A much larger addressable market.

    1. Re:Can't compare #s per household either... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      on the other hand I personally have one computer (W7) and one laptop (debian) in continuous use at home, plus two old laptops in reserve for gaming and one old PC I couldn't get myself to throw it out yet. And one landline phone plus one cellular (non-smart).
      My parents both have a laptop plus at least two older PCs - and only a (non-smart) cellular phone each.

      You can't simply set yourself as the rest of the world and count from that.

    2. Re:Can't compare #s per household either... by byrtolet · · Score: 1

      I have a phone. My wife has a phone. Our son has a phone.

      My family then has one computer with three accounts on it.

      Sure there are families with multiple computers and one phone, but I doubt that one phone is passed around each day to a different family member. A mobile phone isn't consumed like it was a mobile version of a land line (one line per household).

      So instead of selling one device per household with a computer, you sell one device per member of household. A much larger addressable market.

      And you probably have a computer at work, and may be your wife has one at her work.

      Things without keyboard are much tougher to use for real work.

    3. Re:Can't compare #s per household either... by jon3k · · Score: 1

      I have 5 computers at home and one mobile phone.

    4. Re:Can't compare #s per household either... by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      No wife, kids are grown and gone.

      Three phones (one older, screen broken one). 2 iPhones, one Android (work phone).

      Two Macs (my 2004 Powerbook and works' MacBook Pro; hey, if I can claim the Android, I can claim the Macbook).

      My Windows 7 PC with 12 VirtualBox systems installed (various Linux versions, Solaris, and various Windows versions).

      My Ubuntu firewall.

      And a Sun Enterprise 250 sitting over by the couch. I disposed of several old PCs and my ex took her Dell laptop with her when she bailed 2 years ago.

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    5. Re:Can't compare #s per household either... by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      Shoot, and an iPad plus two Linux systems at work and an old Windows laptop for console access to servers when needed.

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    6. Re:Can't compare #s per household either... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Many PCs predate smart phones entirely. Many PCs that are older than the first iPhone are still quite useful either as is or with minor upgrades.

      I have contributed to the PC market bloodbath myself. I have saved 2 machines from the scrapheap this year with cheap video card upgrades. Other machines remain useful even without any sort of "fixes".

      Tablets on the other hand, I have thrown onto the scrap pile.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  25. Johnson et al by jupsis · · Score: 1

    Companies such as Johnson & Johnson and Nestle are also missing from this comparison. Will Apple be in parity with Smarties and/or Imodium soon?

  26. Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Really, who cares that one company's devices match the number of devices with another company's OS? Why not start comparing Apple devices with Windows licenses? Or maybe Windows phones with OS X instances?

  27. I really wanted to move to iOS by aiadot · · Score: 1

    I got a Macbook pro retina, enjoying OS X in a nice hardware package. I also enjoy my xperia phone, but with all the crap that google has been pulling recently and the fact sony doesn't have the balls to make their own OS(I really like the xperia hardware), I contemplated moving to the iPhone. But that irongrip Appstore and platform coupled design decisions I can't stand really scare me away from the device. Apple, allow me to use 3rd party app stores, give me a decent built in file manager, give me something like AirDroid(and not iTunes), allow script languages, and let me customize the "desktop"(widgets, no Win95 like icon grid), and I will become a full fledged Apple fanboy and shower you with money.

    1. Re:I really wanted to move to iOS by ruir · · Score: 0

      You may complain as much as the closed garden ecosystem of the iPads, however there are no viruses, and it is *actually* the only platform I would trust for Internet banking, mind you. I wont even trust my Macbook. I think Apple is really missing a marketing opportunity here.

    2. Re:I really wanted to move to iOS by aiadot · · Score: 1

      Well to each his own I guess. Nowadays I don't freak out about banking as I follow basic internet security guidelines and common sense, but temporary I got inspired by the net banking practices I learned from my work place. For a brief period of time, I basically I had an old, isolated linux netbook that I use exclusively for banking, there is nothing but an up to date webbrowser with bookmarks to my log in pages in that netbook. My workplace, btw, uses an isolated windows XP machine. Why windows XP? Because IE6 was the only thing most of our financial institutions supported until recently(most already upgraded, but I think there is a couple that is frozen in the (dark) past yet). Never tried it, but game console seems to be a nice option as well as they are walled gardens.

      BTW, I don't mind a default walled garden and other software limitations, but Apple should gives us the option to get out of that if we wished to(They already do something like that on OS X, as you can choose to use only Appstore apps, signed apps or no restriction at all). Either that or they relax their content policy in the Appstore. For a platform that is content driven, banning just anything that could be offensive is ridiculous. No need to allow hardcore political parody midget porn, but not allowing games/apps that display partial nudity or social/political criticism is not acceptable to my standards. Until a nice and respected and well known website like DeviantArt can have it's own App, Apple iOS division won't be seeing a single dollar from me.

    3. Re:I really wanted to move to iOS by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Apple, allow me to use 3rd party app stores, give me a decent built in file manager, give me something like AirDroid(and not iTunes), allow script languages, and let me customize the "desktop"(widgets, no Win95 like icon grid), and I will become a full fledged Apple fanboy and shower you with money

      Apple wants individuals on supportable devices. What you want is doable with the developers SDK or a jailbreak.

    4. Re:I really wanted to move to iOS by gig · · Score: 1

      > Apple, allow me to use 3rd party app stores, give me a decent built in file manager, give me something like AirDroid(and not iTunes),
      > allow script languages, and let me customize the "desktop"(widgets, no Win95 like icon grid), and I will become a full fledged
      > Apple fanboy and shower you with money

      Apple already has that product — it's called a Mac.

      You can run apps from any developer on the Mac, or make your own. The Mac may have the only decent file manager, and there are 3rd party alternatives if you like. The Mac has the most music and audio support of any system, you can playback audio in any one of thousands of apps. The Mac has Python, Perl, PHP, Ruby, and other scripting languages built-in. There is even a GUI app scripting language called AppleScript with which you can automate Mac GUI apps like Photoshop and BBEdit to work together as one app that runs like a player piano while you are at lunch or sleeping. The word “widget” (in the context you are using) comes from the Mac. By default, the widgets are confined to their own desktop space (called Dashboard) but if you like you can override that (with developer mode) and run them on any desktop space you like.

      iOS is for the times when you don't want the power/complexity of a Mac. For some users, that means having an iOS device and no Mac (or Windows PC.) For you, it likely means having a Mac and also having iOS devices that act as accessories. For example, on my desk right now is a MacBook Pro that is running Web development tools and just to the right of the screen is an iPad on a vertical stand that is running a Web browser, showing me the consumer view of what I'm working on with the Mac.

      This shouldn't be hard to grasp because it's the same thing as with the iPod. When you are walking around and want to listen to music, you don't want to use a Mac, because an iPod is better for that in every way. When you are sitting on the couch surfing the Web or watching Netflix, you don't want to use a Mac, because an iPad is better for that in every way. However, if you want to do some coding, you put down the iPad and the iPod and you open up a Mac. It's pretty straightforward.

  28. "Devices" != PCs by barc0001 · · Score: 1

    Really? We're equating phones, ipods and tablets to PCs now? Walk into an office with an iPad and tell your boss you don't need a computer any more. See how far that gets you. By the same token, there are more bikes than cars, I guess Detroit better hang it up and call the liquidators, bikes won.

    "devices" aren't even in the same area code as PCs and laptops, capability and *usability* wise. Trying to equate one to the other is ludicrous. One observation that stuck with me about tablets vs computers is that someone remarked "Tablets are information and media consumption devices, while computers are information and media creation devices". And it's true. I have a tablet. I love my tablet. It's great for looking shit up or watching a video in bed or or reading email on the train on the way to work. But if I have to type a paragraph on the thing I want to hurl it down the hallway by the time I finish. And if someone told me I HAD to do my job on it, I'd put it on the desk, walk out and become a farmer, garbageman, mechanic, or anything else that wouldn't force me to use a tablet to do tech work.

    1. Re:"Devices" != PCs by letherial · · Score: 1

      I was working on roughly the same comment...you just point out the stupidity of this article far more efficiently then i did, so ill comment here instead.

      My analogy was that they sold more fries then oranges so clearly oranges must suck.

    2. Re:"Devices" != PCs by Bert64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, because a lot of PC users do nothing more than facebook and email... Many people bought them simply because they were the only or cheapest way to access the limited functions of the internet that they make use of.
      But for these people an ipad is actually a far superior device, they don't have to worry about malware infections or having to manually update a bunch of different software, or maintaining a software firewall, or running av scans, or any of that junk.
      PCs were never "ready for the desktop", they were used because there was no better alternative. Now that better alternatives are available, users are using them.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    3. Re:"Devices" != PCs by symbolset · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My Nexus 5 smartphone is a computer. Its specs are right up there with a laptop in every way. It has 2 office suites installed on it, and I can and do use external displays, Bluetooth mouse and keyboard with it. It also goes with me everywhere. A computer can't get much more personal than that until they start implanting them. It is a personal computer and I would have no problem using this setup to work all day.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    4. Re:"Devices" != PCs by Mistakill · · Score: 1

      I know people with MacBook Pro's, that just bought them because facebook and facebook games are faster... *facedesk*

    5. Re:"Devices" != PCs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did not see an emacs on App Store, but there is a vim app.

      And the iPhone can read mail.

    6. Re:"Devices" != PCs by m.alessandrini · · Score: 1

      Yes it comes with you, but also keyborad, mouse and HDMI cable must come with you, and you should carry the external display, too, to complete the comparison with a laptop.

    7. Re:"Devices" != PCs by WilyCoder · · Score: 1

      wake me up when a mouse has a right button click in android.

    8. Re:"Devices" != PCs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and? Its a million dollars cheaper for any business to have a laptop running chromium connecting to the local network wirelessly. A billion fewer problems than having a desktop, but full keyboard and monitor (you can even plug in a pc monitor and keyboard if you want). IT doesn't have to reconfigure shit on your machine. Your data is on the server. Everything just works. Walk out with your device, and the data on it stays on company servers. From a business point of view, its so much cheaper to have thin clients, and Chromebook clients are so great at this. Its not about 'my' computer, its 'your companies' computer. No it service calls means they don't need those people to run after you and clean up your mess. No data loss if you walk out the door with the unit. It can display graphs, charts, all you want. The Android/Chromebook thinclient model is wildly cheaper than running pc's everywhere. Unpgrades when and if your boss wants. The cost/benefit model is so much more attractive than the legacy microsoft model. I don't even care if you make claims about 'I want to do blah' where 'blah' is only available on microsoft, because your boss will likely look at money and then look at 'blah' and tell you to either 1) get your head out of your ass or 2) go find a new company where you get to pick the system they run or 3) take a pay cut of $15,000 per year and we will give you what you want.

    9. Re:"Devices" != PCs by gig · · Score: 1

      Android devices != PC's. Java apps are not PC apps.

      iOS devices == PC's. They run the same apps from the Mac, but with a touch interface, on top of the same operating system core from the Mac. If you say an iOS device is not a PC, you are saying a Mac is not a PC, and therefore Windows — a Mac/NeXT clone — is not a PC. To some extent, Windows 8 is also an iOS clone — is a Windows 8 PC not a PC?

      You are thinking too literally and too office-centric and traditional PC -centric.

      Yes, sometimes a general office worker gets an iPad and drops the Windows PC on the same day. Especially if they are very mobile or had very few traditional PC skills. But all the iOS device has to do is replace the user's main PC app and the user is mostly done with the traditional PC. For example, a writer who moves his word processor from a Mac to an iPad is now an iPad user who also has a Mac. The iPad is his main computer now, and the Mac is secondary.

      But there are all kinds of other scenarios:

      * a limo driver who used to keep trip notes on a paper clipboard, and at the end of the day go into an office full of Windows PC's and do data entry replaces the paper clipboard with an iPad and drops the office and the Windows PC immediately — other examples of this kind of workflow are car and real estate sales people, who can have an iPad with them at the actual point of sale (with the client at a new car or house) and don't need to go back to a desk

      * people who used to use a desktop PC and a notebook PC have now often replaced the desktop PC with the notebook, and replaced the notebook with an iPad

      * people who had one notebook PC they used 100% of the time and replaced every year are now using the notebook PC 25%–50% of the time and an iPad for the rest and replacing the notebook PC every 2–3 years, or ultimately replacing the notebook with a second or even third iPad

      * users who have computers that run just one specific app all day — a salesperson who spends all day in Salesforce, a photographer who runs a photo viewer tethered to his or her camera during shoots — have now often replaced a big heavy notebook with 4 hour battery that begs them to be at a desk with a lightweight iPad that runs the same exact app for 10 hours on a charge

      If you are a computer expert of some kind, you think in terms of a PC workflow. You try an iPad and you try to impose that same PC workflow on it. That is not what most users do. Most users are actually frustrated by the traditional PC most of the time. Most cannot grasp the file system hierarchy. Most try an iPad and they can do more with it, not less.

      And keep in mind, it is not just 1 iOS device replacing 1 PC. I write music and lyrics, and I use an iPad for the lyrics and an iPhone for the music (with Apogee hardware) and I work for many hours without switching apps at all, it is a very focused and enjoyable and productive workflow that replaced a Mac that I had only for writing. Later, when the writing is done, the music and lyrics go to a Mac for editing, production, and publishing like they always did (the documents open right up in the Mac-based tools,) but I only have one Mac now, not two. I'm not letting go of the production Mac with tools like Logic that I have complete mastery of, but I recognize I'm in the minority of users. Most people, even if they have used traditional PC's extensively, have not mastered a single app, let alone mastered the Mac or Windows. The first time they feel the kind of mastery of a computer that you might have felt with some server software or the command line is when they get an iPad or iPhone.

    10. Re:"Devices" != PCs by gig · · Score: 1

      At least his or her bank account won't be cleaned out by Windows malware as they use Facebook.

    11. Re:"Devices" != PCs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? We're equating Commodores, Timex Sinclairs and IBM PC's to mainframes now? Walk into an office with a IBM PC and tell your boss you don't need a 3278 computer terminal any more. See how far that gets you. By the same token, there are more bikes than cars, I guess Detroit better hang it up and call the liquidators, bikes won.

      "PCs" aren't even in the same area code as mainframes and supercomputers, capability and *usability* wise. Trying to equate one to the other is ludicrous. One observation that stuck with me about PCs vs mainframes is that someone remarked "PCs are just toys, while mainframes are information and media creation devices". And it's true. I have a PC. I love my PC. It's great for playing minesweeper or playing games or connecting to dial up services. But if I have to run Cobol programs on the thing I want to hurl it down the hallway by the time I finish. And if someone told me I HAD to do my job on it, I'd put it on the desk, walk out and become a farmer, garbageman, mechanic, or anything else that wouldn't force me to use a PC to do tech work.

      Comment edited to reflect the latest in 1980 tech.

  29. Opinions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Opinions are like arseholes... Everyone's got one...

  30. Re:WIN MAC LINUX BSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Upgrade to the LATEST Windows OS because it is "secure"...

  31. Fairer than it looks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What non-PC Windows devices are worth a mention?

    Also, how much does Google and Samsung make per Android device, versus Apple per Apple device?

    And what about developers? How much work : $$$ does an iOS dev make versus Android devs?

    Does Apple even try to compete with the low-end $0 profit devices that make up the vast bulk of Android numbers?

    Desktop days are numbered... It's all about making money from mobile, and Google sells ads, all you privacy (you are the product), and their soul.

  32. The Network Effect was *part* of it by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

    "There was concentration in decision making in the 80s so a platform could win by convincing 500 individuals who had the authority (as CIOs) to impose through fiat a standard on the centers of gravity of purchasing power."

    Apple products were *far* more expensive in the 80's and 90's. And the OS wasn't that good.

    OSX was a major change for Apple. It was a stable, modern platform with a future. The pricepoints of PCs dropping was the other major change. Now PCs are so cheap that even if a Mac is double the price, it's still affordable.

    Then in the late 90's and 2000s, Microsoft scared away, aquired or killed companies which were developing apps for their platform. And finally, they put an idiot in charge and stopped innovating for more than a decade.

    1. Re:The Network Effect was *part* of it by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Most of this isn't true. Microsoft did tons of innovation (I'm assuming by innovation you mean products with new features) in their enterprise applications over the last decade. Sharepoint is much more powerful than it was in 2000 and enhances Office tremendously. SQL Server is now a big player all the way up to data warehousing..

      Where they weren't innovating was home / small business and that's what's changed with Windows 8.

    2. Re:The Network Effect was *part* of it by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

      Not sure what parts aren't true.

      Incremental improvements in Sharepoint and SQL server are to be expected from Microsoft. In that time MySQL and Postgres exploded in capabilities, while DB/2 and Oracle kept their position as go-to for the top end databases.

      Dropping out of their *substantial lead* in mobile phones, failing to produce a worthy successor to XP, failing to produce their next generation filesystem, fighting a dubious battle with Sony for video game consoles, watching Terraserver lose its lead in the marketplace. Losing IE's share to the upstart *Chrome* from a company younger than IE itself, watching MS Office erode to LibreOffice and fail to create a reasonable alternative to Google Docs for collaboration.

      Some flops are okay, like RT. There's a handful of vague successes, like their user interface experiments, and some things I like, like OneNote. Some legitimate successful innovation like Azure, and some broad corporate successes like their incremental improvements in security management...

      but overall this has been a dark and losing decade for MS.

      There are now huge opportunities for them in non-cloud based data management. They have all the parts to do an awesome job at data self-determination control and privacy, but they're not even trying to move in that direction.

      Meanwhile I find myself migrating from Windows to Mac because FOSS development tools on MS are becoming too alien to use properly on their platform... and MS made the decision to expire my certifications and end my Technet subscription. I'm running out of reasons to even consider MS for anything.

    3. Re:The Network Effect was *part* of it by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Incremental improvements in Sharepoint and SQL server are to be expected from Microsoft. In that time MySQL and Postgres exploded in capabilities, while DB/2 and Oracle kept their position as go-to for the top end databases.

      Innovation in that sense takes decades to make it into products. The big innovations have been things coming out of research.microsoft.com like LINQ. As far as SQL server and top end that's just not true anymore. SQLServer has passed DB2 for data warehouse and even Oracle is threatened. If by top end you mean stuff with 1000+ drives of information then sure, but that's a classic retreat to quality.

      ng to produce a worthy successor to XP

      I'm not sure how Windows 7 isn't a worthy successor. All XP did was add some compatibility to Windows 2000.

      Losing IE's share to the upstart *Chrome*

          Microsoft won the browser wars with IE 6. After that they diminished browser capabilities and kept software on the desktop. More or less they stopped the move from cloud for about dozen years. That's a huge win. Meanwhile IE's share has gone up from 30-60% in the last few years as they've started improving. Chrome as of today is nowhere near IEs share.

      watching MS Office erode to LibreOffice and fail to create a reasonable alternative to Google Docs for collaboration.

      You are behind on that one. Microsoft introduced simultaneous editing in 2013.

      but overall this has been a dark and losing decade for MS.

      That's just not true. Their server division and business division have exploded. Even Windows division has well more than doubled. The revenues are way up.

      There are now huge opportunities for them in non-cloud based data management. They have all the parts to do an awesome job at data self-determination control and privacy, but they're not even trying to move in that direction.

      What do you mean by "non-cloud" here?

      Meanwhile I find myself migrating from Windows to Mac because FOSS development tools on MS are becoming too alien to use properly on their platform.

      That's why I switched to OSX in the 10.1 days. Having a native Unix environment is terrific for FOSS tools NQA.

  33. Apples and Oranges by jevring · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Way to go, you've published another bullshit article about the end of something. By that rationale, I should be able to say something like "the number of wrist watches in the world are far more than apple devices". Or, for that matter, "the number of actual apples (fruit) in the world are far more than apple devices". Please keep this bullshit off of slashdot!

    --
    Move sig!
  34. That can't be right by Punto · · Score: 1

    or if it is, it's pretty irrelevant. Don't Android devices outsell iOS like 4 to 1? If those numbers for PC sales are correct, we should be hearing news about how Android outsold PCs long ago. Who cares about Apple?

    --

    --
    Stay tuned for some shock and awe coming right up after this messages!

    1. Re:That can't be right by gig · · Score: 1

      Hamburgers also outsell iOS devices. What is your point?

      We are talking here about the dominant PC class product — the Windows PC — being matched in installed base by the newest PC class product: the iOS device. We're talking about Apple and Microsoft PC products being on parity in installed base for the first time in decades. We're talking about OS X shipping in 2001 against a Windows installed base that looked insurmountable, and yet less than 15 years later, OS X -based systems are about to pass Windows in installed base.

      Yes, that is news. Apple beats Microsoft in installed base is “man bites dog.” The licensing of DOS/Windows to generic hardware makers was the “deal of the 20th century” and Apple was ridiculed for years for not making it because it was thought that they would never reach parity with Windows by making all their own hardware.

      Android has been extremely successful at doing what it was supposed to do: replace other phone systems on generic phones. Same as hamburgers are very popular. But Android is off-topic here because it is not PC class by any definition. PC apps are native C/C++, not Java. PC's have apps with full-size views. PC's have centralized system updates that patch bugs regularly. I know there is this thing where Android wants to pretend it is iOS, but it is not.

  35. Ok, the Xbox 360 has sold 77 million by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Informative

    That's the total to date over years....

    Or about the same as something like a month or two of iOS sales.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  36. Discount for keeping old phone might change things by perpenso · · Score: 2

    One problem may be with the heavily subsidized phones that we have in the U.S. Getting a new phone every two years costs nothing to about what a video card upgrade for the old PC costs. Now if the phone companies somehow give people a discount for keeping the same phone once they are eligible for a full subsidy that might change things.

  37. I'm sane but I'm chickenshit by epine · · Score: 1

    This is nothing but a freshman exercise in tearing the word "parity" a new asshole. What did that kind word ever do to you to deserve this?

    Wake me up when the next generation's Rowling adds a million words to the literary canon composed with one hand in her pocket and the other one fingering Swype.

  38. How about OS X vs. Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So they have to count Apple *Devices* to compare to Windows *PCs*? I would like to see OS X vs. Windows, not OS X + iOS vs. Windows...

    1. Re:How about OS X vs. Windows? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't make much difference. Apple sells mostly portable devices. Windows has barely any penetration in the markets where Apple sells most of its stuff. There are HUGE differences in market penetration by class of device:
      Desktops + laptops: 87% of installed base
      All browsers: Windows OSes: 65% of web clients
      In tablets: Apple 48%, Android 43% of installed base
      In phones: Android dominates with close to 80% of sales

      The breakdown probably reflects what users think the devices are good for.

  39. SO WHAT!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    I get it, and your ENTIRE post was centered on that point: Apple users have more disposable money than Android users. It matters much less than elitists think it means. In the end, Android makes the impact, even if it doesn't appeal to the top 10% earners.

    I know full well that in USA and the UK, and some other (but not that many) parts of the world, richer == better person. That is not necessarily true (lying and cheating are the most important success factor according to recent research - make of it what you will) and having other goals in life than hoarding money doesn't make that life less interesting. But I realize this is incredibly difficult if not impossible for the average USian to comprehend. Hence these discussions will always be framed in terms "but iOS users purchase way more than Android users ---> iOS better!!".

  40. Apples to Oranges by Dunbal · · Score: 1

    Apple devices to Windows PC's. Why not Android phones to MacBooks?

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  41. counting by tleaf100 · · Score: 0

    er,it would at first several reads appear that author is counting any device with an apple logo on as a pc,but only ms pc's as pc's. i was thinking that i would have to point out that both are getting their bums kicked by andriod but he mentions it atvvery bottom,therefore showing how daft an article it was,the could eventualy be at full parity,neither of them ship anything ever again. and although loads of "experts"and others say it probably not going to happen,there is plenty of room and scope for several or just one new big popular good os or os's,most of them "experts"poo pooed android just 6 years ago,so they dont have a very good track record.

    1. Re:counting by Swampash · · Score: 1

      As a wise man already posted, iOS is a fork of OS X. Those two operating systems are far more closely related than, say, Windows 95 and Windows 8 - both of which are included as just "Windows" on the graph.

    2. Re:counting by gig · · Score: 1

      Yes, OS X and iOS are essentially the same system:

        OS X (aka Mac OS) is a mouse-based user/app interface on top of the xnu kernel and OS X subsystems and libraries
        iOS is a touch-based user/app interface on top of the xnu kernel and OS X subsystems and libraries

        this is a key benefit of Apple's mobile strategy. Instead of using a baby system like iPod OS on iPhone, they put their PC class system onto iPhone. That has enabled, for example, apps like GarageBand (which depends on CoreAudio and CoreMIDI subsystems of OS X for a lot of its functionality) to be quickly ported from mouse/Intel Mac OS to touch/ARM iOS. That's why so many Mac apps arrived on iOS so quickly and with so much power.

      If someone were trying to say that iOS and OS X are different systems, they would be denying what is probably the greatest strategic move by a technology company in the 21st century.

      The best analogy to understand what Apple did is to imagine that when you booted up Windows 8 on a notebook, it only showed the desktop interface and the desktop Win32 apps and purposefully hid the Metro interface and apps, and when you booted up a Windows 8 tablet, it did the opposite, showing Metro and hiding the desktop. Underneath, it is still Windows 8.

  42. Cool story by aliquis · · Score: 1

    ... but what's really cool is that Linux is smoking them all.

    And "UNIX" is what you're running, for real, even though most people don't care or notice it :)

  43. It's Windows8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They deserve this. Microsoft has finally jumped the shark with that awful metro rubbish.

  44. Re:Incorrect correlation by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you look at Betamax it was regarded as being a bit better than VHS but was less widely licensed. Betamax started off with almost all of the market but gradually lost it because Betamax machines tended to be expensive.

    I'd say the analogy is pretty good. High end but proprietary system gradually loses market share to more open, cheaper competitor.

    You can buy a very good, cheap Android handset from one of the zillions of Android OEMS. That enables Android to gain market share amongst people who can't afford a more expensive iPhone.

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  45. Re:WIN MAC LINUX BSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Upgrade to the LATEST Windows OS because it is "secure"...

    Because the last Windows OS we shipped you wasn't... and, oh yeah, be sure to keep "security updates" enabled on our LATEST Windows OS, because even though it's "secure", it might not really be. ... Nah, the real reason they want you to upgrade is because they need to make money - if they really cared about what the *users* want, then Win8 shipping with Metro never would have happened.

  46. Re:Incorrect correlation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually that's also how the PC won over the Apple computer: First, by demand of IBM, there were two manufacturers of the processor, enabling competition on the processor side (that's ultimately why now the x86-based architecture is dominant). Second, the PC design was open (although that was only because in the beginning, IBM didn't really believe in the PC), so there was competition also in the PCs themselves.

  47. Re: Troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Indeed, I just looked, and was quite surprised to not even find Adobe, despite the fact that Adome DRM is the DRM typically found in non-Amazon ebook readers (at least here in Germany; don't know about other parts of the world).

  48. Re:Discount for keeping old phone might change thi by wiredog · · Score: 3, Informative

    Take a look at T-Mobile. Pay full price for the phone, get the service at 1/4th off.

  49. T-Mobile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unlike ATT and Verizon, with T-Mobile, I'm paying for the web service, but not the new phone I might or might not want or need,.

  50. The Google knows by Immerial · · Score: 1

    ...And all your stuff knows all of your other stuff. SCARY.

  51. Mixing apple and orange by aepervius · · Score: 1

    Apple device include ipods and iphone and you are comparing that to "windows PC" a category of its own ? That's pretty stupid.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:Mixing apple and orange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure that throwing Windows phones and tablets in the mix would work the numbers just about the same but how much different is it than every Linux geek here claiming that "Linux is teh ever-wherez!!!!111" when they talk about stuff like TVs and media players that have OSs based on the Linux kernel?

      It's not that I disagree with you but the Slashdot trending for stories has been and will continue to be "M$ is baddddd and needz to di3!!!!" Sadly, this culture is not going to fade anytime soon. More people are interested in what tech people are using than what people are using that tech for. It's an endless contest to make people feel good about their consumer choices even if what they have doesn't do much more than anything else anyone else owns.

      The worst thing about this all is that I expect consumer fanboyism to be deep for the derp on the street but when so-called geeks can't look past the trees to see the forest it makes me wonder what kind of future we'll have. This kind of polarization is limiting and non-productive. Someone out there could have the neatest project since sliced bread going on in their garage and there's going to be a faction of "geeks" who are going to shrug their shoulders because it's not being run by technology who's branded badge they favor.

      Somewhere out there I'd really like to find a computing community that doesn't have these kinds of hang ups but I'm just not seeing it. The one "geek" place I do get away from that is in my astronomy group. People don't go to each others scopes and shrug off what they see through the eye piece because one scope is a Meade and they have an Orion. For a bunch of guys out on a hilltop looking at the same objects night after night it's a much more friendly and progressive culture. That's what use to draw me to user groups and such but that scene faded long ago.

  52. comparing what by vrhino · · Score: 1

    Comparing apples and oranges. Ba da bum. Sorry, all

  53. References... by Parker+Lewis · · Score: 1

    ... about all these usage/purchase/traffic statistics, please?

  54. Re:Incorrect correlation by gutnor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sure let see how that looks: IPod vs all the other MP3 player, Linux vs Windows. You can go further: Linux is going strong despite "losing", Apple was profitable despite a negligible market share, ...

    That's not even considering that we are talking about Apple vs Android, which should be Sony vs VHS. Sony eventually embraced VHS. Apple did not abandon OSX. Worked for both of them.

    High Level comparison like that are only good for fortune cookie type wisdom.

  55. Phones = fashion devices also by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even if they are powerful enough and durable enough to last 5 years, a significant number of people will buy a new phone for the same reason they buy a new jacket or new purse.

  56. what this tells you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not everyone is stupid enough to buy a stupid phone er smart phone

    leaving this site this kinda garbage is just stupid fpor posting its apples to oranges.....

    HEY guess what include android phones and guess what and previous to smart phones regular phones...lets really compare how many idiots are buying theSMART BULLSHIT

    i dont play real games on a phone, i dont do 3d animation and design work on a phone
    and while you might text fuck the pricing on a phone

    THEY are like WAY TO EXPENSIVE and all i fucking want is a phone
    and privacy

    a pc while its able ot do a lot more isnt it and lovely aint it i dont need magnifying glass to see crap....

    this assault on the pc is hilarious all you fucknuts are the same nsa spies that also dont want us to have any control over my life..oh ya i get to do what the fuck i want with my pc....and fuck you and any law says otherwise

  57. Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple "devices" compared to a computer....

    Next we'll see non-apple devices outnumber apple-devices 50-to-1 or something equally stupid...

  58. Re:Discount for keeping old phone might change thi by dintech · · Score: 1

    Getting close to half that with my iphone 4S. I doubt I'll need to change over the next year and a half at least so that only short by 1 year on that.

  59. Scewed stats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From what I have read from web stats. Internet access from tablets only make up about 5% of web traffic. So I highly doubt tablets no matter iPads or Androids were significantly advancing. In fact the bigger gain in mobile on smartphones far exceeds tablet gains. I suspect it might not be tablets that replace PC's as much as smartphones that hold the key to the new web access tool.

  60. Most meaningless statistic ever by johnlcallaway · · Score: 1

    1. Android devices still outnumber Apple in the phone/tablet world
    2. Windows still outnumbers Apple in the desktop/laptop world.
    3. Apple doesn't even really do business computing anymore.
    4. Apple is still an over-priced piece of proprietary hardware/software that is anti-competitive (i.e. iOS only licensed to run on Apple hardware when any PC could run it and hundreds of hardware manufacturers could be making different types of phones) that has no distinct advantage over anything else except some people think it's cool. There is absolutely nothing about it that makes it 'special' other than it looks pretty.
    5. Both my wife and daughter have left the Apple cult and never want to go back. I know several other people who feel the same way. People are wising up to Apple's deceit.

    Apple products are decent products. They work and do what they are supposed to do. Someone that elevates them to anything more than just another device is simply trying to justify why they spent too much money on something.

    --
    I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
    1. Re:Most meaningless statistic ever by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      You say iOS running on Apple products only is anti-competitive. That's wrong. Apple is the copyright holder and has the right to restrict where its software can be used. That was made quite clear by courts a few years ago that absolutely made clear that Apple has the right to restrict MacOS X to Apple computers.

      Now if you argued that Apple only allows you to run iOS on the iPhone, and not other operating systems, that's different. If Google wants to port Android to the iPhone, they should ask if Apple minds, and quite possibly they wouldn't. But actually, I haven't heard any evidence that any phone manufacturer wanted to port iOS to their phones.

    2. Re:Most meaningless statistic ever by gig · · Score: 1

      > Android devices still outnumber Apple in the phone/tablet world

      iOS devices are replacing PC's, not phones. That is what you missed in this article, which is not about the phone market, but is actually about the PC market. Apple, BTW, is the oldest PC vendor. The phone features of an iOS device are essentially free, like the Web browser. Nobody pays for that. They are buying App Store and PC class native C/C++ apps — PC replacement features. These features are now available on devices that are not traditional PC's — that is the “post PC” thing.

      Android is an operating system, not a device. Android is replacing other phone operating systems. Android runs Java apps and viruses, like other phones. Android devices replace other phones. They are better phones in many cases, but still just phones.

      If you think about it for a second, if an iOS device is the same as an Android phone, then why would anyone buy an iOS device to make calls and send texts and visit websites if they can get a cheaper Android phone to do that? That is why you think Apple users were brainwashed into a cult. You're refusing to admit that the reason people buy iOS devices is their very real and practical need to run PC class apps, and their very reasonable preference to do so on a 600 gram, 10 hour battery iPad instead of a 3 kilo, 4 hour battery PC notebook.

      From my own experience, my iOS devices spend most of their time running apps that were Mac-only until they came out on iOS. Literally 95% of the time, my iOS devices are replacing a Mac. That is why I only buy one Mac at a time these days, when I used to buy 2 at a time before iOS.

      > Most meaningless statistic ever

      Lumping 2 very different things like iOS devices and Android operating system software together is what is meaningless.

      Noticing that people who would have bought a Mac or Windows PC in 2007 are now buying an iOS device to do that same work, and even to run the same exact native C/C++ apps, is actually quite meaningful. It explains why iOS devices are selling so well and why Mac sales growth has slowed and why Windows sales have really slowed. When people need powerful native C/C++ apps, they now have a choice of Mac, iOS, or Windows, not just Mac and Windows.

  61. It's software that matters by JDG1980 · · Score: 1

    The reason why people keep using Windows PCs is simple: the huge installed base of existing software. While there are plenty of applications for iOS and Android, the really important ones still aren't there. Until there are full versions of MS Office, Photoshop, and AutoCAD (just to name a few) for iOS/Android, these systems will not be serious competitors in the prosumer/business market. (Yes, MS and Adobe have applications that bear the Office and Photoshop names on the portable devices, but these are just toys, not anything even close to the full desktop versions.)

    1. Re:It's software that matters by gig · · Score: 1

      No, that is wrong. You are forgetting that most users use only 10% or less of the features of the Mac/Windows apps they use. You're forgetting that most users have been asking for *fewer* features for a long, long time, and have been terribly frustrated by the training time that is required just to do something like write a short document or make small edits to a photograph.

      It is iOS that leads in the PC class software that users want, not Windows. The PC class software advantage is all iOS. And Android has nothing to do with it, because it has no PC class apps. You're mistakenly lumping iOS with Android when iOS goes with Windows and Mac OS. Android devices attempt to look like iOS devices, but they are just phones, running the same old voice calls, SMS texts, Java apps, and viruses as previous phone systems. iOS devices are PC's.

      Also, you're underestimating the value of App Store on iOS. Windows software is much harder to install, and comes on CD/DVD or in untrusted Web downloads that most users don't know how to use. And App Store makes apps much cheaper. Apps that are $50 on Windows are $1.99 on iOS, and the iOS versions are equal or better. And any user can install an iOS app that they want/need as easy as buying music for an iPod. Windows software requires some I-T skills.

      > Photoshop

      I happen to be a Photoshop expert, and I can tell you, there are almost no consumers who use anything more than 1% of the features of Photoshop. In the past, they would run a cracked Photoshop because they didn't want to pay $599 for Photoshop because, again, they only want 1% of its features — they want to pay $5.99. Then they would struggle to workaround a forest of unwanted features as they used the one or 2 trees that were of interest to them. The consumer is much, much better off spending $5.99 on a handful of photo editing apps on iOS, and they get a focused, more-productive editing setup and much better security (no viruses, no malware-infested cracked software.)

      The fact that iOS devices also have very high-quality photo/video cameras only makes the switch from Photoshop to iOS apps that much more natural and productive. Instead of importing a photo or video from a camera and struggling with formats and the file system, they shoot a photo or video with an iOS device and it appears like magic in an editing interface.

      > MS Office

      MS Office has been running on the Mac since 1985, yet over the past 3–5 years, Pages/Keynote/Numbers have become the dominant office software on the Mac because it is the version of MS Office that users (not CIO's) have been demanding for many years: focused on the 10% of features that users actually *use*, easier to use, faster to use, cheaper to buy, runs on smaller devices with 10 hour batteries, and makes better quality work output.

      > but these are just toys,

      Android apps may be toys, but the native C/C++ apps on iOS are not toys. The versions of Pages/Keynote/Numbers on iOS have the same features as the Mac versions, yet are much more mobile, so you can work anywhere that inspiration strikes. I used to have a second Mac that ran Pages most of the time, and it has been replaced with an iPad that runs Pages most of the time.

      Further, GarageBand (songwriting tool) on iOS is actually better than GarageBand on Mac or similar Windows apps because it uses the touch interface to morph into hundreds of playable instruments as you write. It replaces not only a Mac, but the hundreds of MIDI instruments you'd have to plug into a Mac to be able to arbitrarily record any of them as you work. And the GarageBand documents open in Logic on the Mac for additional editing and mixing. Not a toy.

      iMovie on iOS is better than any consumer video editing software on Windows. iOS also has a version of Avid that is better than any consumer video editing software on Windows. Even pro video editing people use iMovie or Avid on iOS as a scratch pad.

      Why is iOS hosting these powerful apps and Android is not? iOS has the multimedia

  62. Free upgrade by Frankie70 · · Score: 1

    In contrast every two years I can get an iPhone upgrade for free with a two year contract, sure its not the latest generation hardware but its a free hardware upgrade

    It's a free upgrade only for the financially stupid. I bet you think that an Income Tax refund is free money.

    1. Re:Free upgrade by perpenso · · Score: 1

      Its free in a very practical sense, as in no extra money leaves my pocket. The monthly bill is the same whether I keep using the old phone or upgrade to a new phone. I really don't care if my cellular provider's accounting is showing a portion of my bill as "payment for phone subsidy" or "extra profits after subsidy pay off".

  63. Re:Discount for keeping old phone might change thi by riis138 · · Score: 1

    I looked into that. The issue with T-Mobile for me was the fact their coverage is awful where I live. The fact we have Verizon receivers at work helped my decision as well. I am still not a huge Verizon fan, even if I have full bars everywhere.

    --
    Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan
  64. Re:Incorrect correlation by Dracolytch · · Score: 1

    "who choose not to afford a more expensive iPhone."

    FTFY

    Lots of people CAN buy iPhones, but many of us find that it's not worth the expense (for various reasons)

    --
    This sig has been enciphered with a one-time pad. It could say almost anything.
  65. Re:Incorrect correlation by guytoronto · · Score: 4, Informative

    Second, the PC design was open (although that was only because in the beginning, IBM didn't really believe in the PC), so there was competition also in the PCs themselves.

    False. The original IBM PC design was NOT open. Other companies reverse engineered the BIOS and created 'clones' - hence the term 'PC clone'. Some early clones had hardware compatibility issues with the original IBM PC design.

  66. Not a good comparison. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Comparing Apple devices to Windows PCs is not an equal comparison. Shitty article and shitty source. Next.

  67. Re: Incorrect correlation by iamhassi · · Score: 1

    Exactly right. They are still selling android smartphones and tablets with version 2.3 from 2010 which is essentially useless, and many devices have android installed that aren't mobile devices like a washing machine which really shouldn't count towards android devices sold anymore than a toaster running windows 8 should count.

    --
    my karma will be here long after I'm gone
  68. The word was "rare" by dbIII · · Score: 1

    The word was "rare", which shows to above poster is looking at a very small sample size and then telling us about it as if that's how it is everywhere.
    Thus playing "let's pretend" with no clue.

  69. Re:well apple does get a boost with the new mac pr by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    talking about mac uses who where waiting and really don't want to go pc or go the hackintosh way.

  70. (cr)Apple Slashvertisiment? by Chas · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Yes. Because an iPod is SO comparable to a PC!
    Yep!

    Uh huh!

    This just in! People buy more milk than fighter jets! Fighter jets in trouble!

    Wake me when this idiocy is over.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  71. and it's not dead just because u stop using it by schlachter · · Score: 1

    I replace my devices every 24 months but I sell my old ones on ebay or to friends...so someone will take my two yr old iPhone/iPad and view it as new and use it for another 2 yrs before possibly passing it on to someone else. Sure, some break and some get stuck in drawers and forgotten about, but not all.

    --
    My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
  72. Re:Discount for keeping old phone might change thi by puto · · Score: 2

    I work for AT&T and we have plans that give you 15$ off once your phone is out of contract.

    --
    The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
  73. Re:Incorrect correlation by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    PCs were a thousand dollars cheaper than Macs. They started dominating, which made them the first choice for game development (in the late 80s very few games were Mac-only, and most of Mac games were later ports of the big PC hits.)

    That's pretty much it.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  74. Re:Incorrect correlation by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    If VHS has sold mostly cassettes that could not play anything nor record and still succeeded, then you would have a point.

    As it stands there are a LOT of Android devices sold that count not a whit to advancing Android as a smartphone. They are just feature phones on which running apps in madness; how does that truly advance the platform?

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  75. Whore Ally by MacColossus · · Score: 1

    I will let you folks argue Windows Vs Apple Vs Android. I just want to know who tagged the article as whore ally, why, and how does one become a whore ally?

  76. Really? Blame Apple for getting copied? by danaris · · Score: 1

    I care what he thinks. Apple's existence is actually ruining other platforms and their diversity. Look at how much Unity sucks. That's Apple's fault. Windows 8? Apple!

    Apple's existence is doing nothing of the kind.

    The fact that other companies have no idea how to design things people want on their own, so all they can do is copy what Apple does, is what is harmful to the diversity of style in the market.

    Just because you don't like Apple doesn't mean you get to blame them when everyone else rips off their designs.

    Dan Aris

    --
    Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
  77. Re:Incorrect correlation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Web & Internet distribution makes these "old media" comparisons rather trite. We are far beyond the stage where "there can be only one" due to platform ecosystem effects.

    Especially this lame VHS/Beta analogy. It's not like society is still warehousing giant videotapes or porn is hard to find.

  78. sense of how it is "owned"? by mjm1231 · · Score: 1

    "'The computer has become personal not just in the sense of how it's used but in the sense of how it's owned."

    What did the author intend to mean by this? That if IOs devices outnumber Windows, computer hardware is even less "owned" by the consumer?

    --
    Ideology: A tool used primarily to avoid the bother of thinking.
    1. Re:sense of how it is "owned"? by gig · · Score: 1

      He meant that most Windows devices were bought in lots of 10,000, chosen by CIO's (impersonal) and most iOS devices were bought 1-by-1, chosen by the user (personal) of the device. And even when a user bought a single Windows PC for their home, they were often buying it because that's what the CIO had chosen at work or at school. With iOS devices, it is the reverse: CIO's are buying iOS devices for workers because the workers bought them for themselves at home.

  79. Re:Discount for keeping old phone might change thi by perpenso · · Score: 1

    I work for AT&T and we have plans that give you 15$ off once your phone is out of contract.

    I would have to give up my legacy unlimited data plan. Plus as a developer I need newer devices for testing anyway.

  80. Re:Incorrect correlation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    False. The original IBM PC design was NOT open. Other companies reverse engineered the BIOS and created 'clones' - hence the term 'PC clone'. Some early clones had hardware compatibility issues with the original IBM PC design.

    Depends on how you define "open". IBM published a BIOS manual that included the entire source code of the BIOS. It was $60 as I recall. No reverse engineering needed...

  81. Was there a point to this article? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah OK, taking everything altogether Apple might sell as much as M$, but WTF is the actual point?

    While I own android smartphones & tablets they certainly do not, nor ever likely will replace my notebooks & desktops. Inputting anything lengthy or somewhat complicated with only a touch screen is painful, and even IF you attach a kb/mouse they're still just not up to many of the tasks that I perform. Bottomline is that they're handy for a quick look at something for example, while traveling, or doing something else where I wouldn't wish to consult a notebook or desktop(if available).

    Oh, and let's not forget OSX != iOS, close, but not equal although Apple is busily gimping their notebooks & desktops trying(only reason that makes any sense for such anemic hardware entire non-upgradability) I would guess to bring them down to the level of their iPad/iPhone/iPods.

    All of that said I don't see anything really useful in this summary or linked article other than blah blah blah Apple blah blah blah M$ blah blah blah marketing blah blah blah blah. Oh and the funny thing is that the primary article doesn't even bother to mention Android which makes this even MOAR USELESS(TM).

  82. apples to oranges to pineapples by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    ...and there are 6 Android devices for every 1 mobile Apple device as of late 2013. So what? They're not computers and there's crossover.

  83. Re:Incorrect correlation by clem.dickey · · Score: 3, Informative

    The BIOS was "open" in that anyone could read it. The Technical Reference Manual included a source listing. It was copyrighted, however, and so could not be used in clones.

  84. Digital distrbution is the key difference by default+luser · · Score: 1

    In the bad old days of Betamax, if your local video store did not have what you wanted, you didn't get it. And shelf space was at a premium, so if a movie was carried at all, it was more likely to be VHS.

    Today Apple's digital distribution of content solves that problem. They've proven that they can make a massive profit off a small segment of the market, and that their customer base is loyal enough to keep on trucking (much like loyal Betamax users only switched due to lack of content).

    So yes, while it's an accurate connection between iOS and Betamax on the surface, it's a completely different world today. Apple will command a smaller-and-smaller share of the mobile market, but it will reach a certain percentage and stay there.

    --

    Man is the animal that laughs.
    And occasionally whores for Karma.

  85. Because hardly anyone is using Android for anythin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because hardly anyone is using Android for anything other than making calls. Web share, apps share, e-commerce share, iOS beats the crap out of Android in all categories that actually count the usage, and not sales.

  86. They'll be able to do that in 2011 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Models from 2011 have dual core gigahertz processors, a gigabyte of RAM, 4+ inch screens with good resolution and Android 4. That's more than enough to be a match to mid-range devices of 2013. I have an HTC from 2011 and I'm planning to use it until it breaks or becomes truly obsolete in maybe 1 or 2 years (whichever comes first).

  87. Re:Billions of iPhones by DanielOom · · Score: 1

    Steve Ballmer's successor must be a genius if he can push the sale of Windows Phones to the same level as the iPhone.

  88. Slashdot, as useless as always by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dumb article is dumb. It doesn't count the computers still in circulation. Stop trying to make this sound like more than it is.

  89. Welcome to the echo chamber. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These intermediaries the article spoke of, these are Slashdot posters. They've lost power, many are in denial and the rest are pissed.

    I'm not saying that old computers don't see a lot of use in some places. I've been around long enough to know better. But good God, are you saying this new reality doesn't exist?

  90. Re:Incorrect correlation by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

    Clones used a 'clean room engineering' technique. So there were too groups of engineers. One read the source code and the manual and wrote a specification. The other took the specification and wrote a Bios.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Technologies#Cloning_the_IBM_PC_BIOS

    With the success of the IBM PC in 1983, Phoenix decided to provide an IBM PC compatible ROM BIOS to the PC market. A licensable ROM BIOS would allow clone PC manufacturers to run the same applications, and the MS-DOS that was being used by IBM. However, to do this Phoenix needed a strategy for defense against IBM copyright infringement lawsuits. Phoenix used a clean room technique that isolated the engineers who had been contaminated by reading the IBM source listings in the IBM Technical Reference Manuals. The contaminated engineers wrote specifications for the BIOS APIs and provided the specifications to a single "clean" engineerâ"one with experience programming the Texas Instruments TMS9900, and without experience with the Intel 8088 or 8086[13]â"who had not been exposed to IBM BIOS source code. The "clean" engineer developed code to mimic the BIOS APIs. This technique provided Phoenix with a defensibly non-infringing IBM PC-compatible ROM BIOS. Because the programmers who wrote the Phoenix code had never read IBM's reference manuals, nothing they wrote could have been copied from IBM's code, no matter how closely the two matched.[14] This reverse engineering technique is commonly referred to as a "Chinese wall." The first Phoenix PC ROM BIOS was introduced in May, 1984, and helped fuel the growth in the PC industry.

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  91. Android is a phone system, not relevant here by gig · · Score: 1

    If you want to discuss Android, which is an operating system designed specifically for phones, there's a great success story there about how it dominated the phone market, *replacing* other phone operating systems and Java and becoming the king of of the hill in the generic phone market. But that is off-topic, because here we are talking about the PC market.

    Here, we are talking about iOS devices, which are not phone operating systems like Android and do not replace other phone operating systems like Android did. iOS devices *replace* 3 other devices: a phone (even an Android-based phone,) an iPod, and a PC (a Windows-based PC or even a Mac-based PC.) iOS devices can replace a phone because they have phone features built-in, but these are essentially provided for free. iOS devices can replace an iPod because they have iPod features built-in, but these are also essentially provided for free. What the iOS device buyer is paying for are the PC replacement features, which are unique to iOS/Mac devices and Windows devices alone: PC class operating system, PC class native C/C++ app platform with a full range of apps in every category and full-size views, PC class support including centralized software updates.

    Speaking from my own experience, I used to have 2 MacBooks (and an iPod) that I used for work all day, but now I have only 1 MacBook. The apps that I used to run on the second MacBook have moved over to an iPad and an iPhone. The exact same native C/C++ apps, with full-size PC views. Not phone apps, not Java apps. Further, the money that I previously spent on that second Mac is now the money that I spend on the iPad and iPhone. About half the time, I'm not using a Mac at all. In fact, I do all my writing solely on iOS devices, and that includes music writing and recording. So in every way, my iOS devices have replaced other PC class devices — it has nothing to do with phones or even Android-based phones.

  92. Re:Incorrect correlation by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    Also, IBM PCs had a very large initial boost: they were earlier than the Mac and they had the magic initials on them which made them safe things for businesses to buy. At one time, I estimated that, compared to available clones, each single letter in the initials was worth about $500. (This wasn't from serious research, more like looking for systems I wanted.)

    Apple made some serious screw-ups with the Mac early on, but they were never going to shake IBM/Microsoft market dominance on personal computers.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  93. Re:History by petervandervos · · Score: 1

    Apple is to Betamax as Android is to VHS. [Unlikely ]

    Agree, in twenty years, only old people know what we are talking about if we speak about iPhones and Android phones.

  94. Apple Sales by DrStoooopid · · Score: 1

    I look at Apple sales as a ratio of Intelligent People:Mindless Media Consumers.

    As Apple sales increase, the collective average of computational intelligence goes down.

    --
    There are 2 groups of people you can make fun of on the Internet without fear of attack. The illiterate, and the Amish.
  95. Re:Incorrect correlation by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    "who choose not to afford a more expensive iPhone."

    FTFY

    Lots of people CAN buy iPhones, but many of us find that it's not worth the expense (for various reasons)

    Lot's of people CAN buy Android smartphones, but many of us find that they don't want to, for various reasons.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  96. Re: Incorrect correlation by locke.th · · Score: 1

    In all actuality, the beta vs VHS analogy has already been rendered false. Blue Ray was actually the more expensive, gimmicky format when it won against hd-DVD. Hd-DVD was identical to blue ray, save it had lower storage space (and it's really only now that blue ray's storage capacity is being largely used), but was three times cheaper to own in comparison to blueray at the time. In the end, the only real reason anything wins over anything else is public perception, and an appropriately aggressive marketing/propaganda campaign that hits on the points that the public believes are important at the time will win it.

  97. Where do you get these "statistics"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    " Desktops are already quite rare in most companies outside call centres."
    I work in the oil industry for a company with about 70,000 employees and the opposite is true. When I visit others in the my industry I see the same thing. Everyone still uses desktops and laptops are quite rare, and have to checked out from the IT department when needed for traveling.

  98. Re: Incorrect correlation by smash · · Score: 1

    I'd wager that Blu-Ray won purely because of the PS3 and Sony's media empire. Heaps of people bought PS3s, and Sony owns a number of media publishing companies who could be told to release on (guess what) Blu-Ray and not HD-DVD. the actual technical specification as far as success/failure went in that particular race was entirely irrelevant.

    --
    I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.