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Microsoft Confirms It Is Dropping Windows 8.1 Support

snydeq (1272828) writes "Microsoft TechNet blog makes clear that Windows 8.1 will not be patched, and that users must get Windows 8.1 Update if they want security patches, InfoWorld's Woody Leonhard reports. 'In what is surely the most customer-antagonistic move of the new Windows regime, Steve Thomas at Microsoft posted a TechNet article on Saturday stating categorically that Microsoft will no longer issue security patches for Windows 8.1, starting in May,' Leonhard writes. 'Never mind that Windows 8.1 customers are still having multiple problems with errors when trying to install the Update. At this point, there are 300 posts on the Microsoft Answers forum thread 'Windows 8.1 Update 1 Failing to Install with errors 0x80070020, 80073712 and 800F081F.' The Answers forum is peppered with similar complaints and a wide range of errors, from 800F0092 to 80070003, for which there are no solutions from Microsoft. Never mind that Microsoft itself yanked Windows 8.1 Update from the corporate WSUS update server chute almost a week ago and still hasn't offered a replacement.'"

342 of 575 comments (clear)

  1. u wot m8 by Agent+ME · · Score: 5, Informative

    Windows 8.1 is no longer supported, so users must update to Windows 8.1?

    1. Re:u wot m8 by x0ra · · Score: 5, Informative

      As I understand it, they must update to "'Windows 8.1 Update 1". A new marketing name for the old "Service Pack" ?

    2. Re:u wot m8 by sublayer · · Score: 1

      As I understand it, they must update to "'Windows 8.1 Update 1". A new marketing name for the old "Service Pack" ?

      "Service Pack" itself being a marketing name for "Version 8.1.1"

    3. Re:u wot m8 by Cryacin · · Score: 1

      Ah, the old recursive update on the operating system!

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    4. Re:u wot m8 by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 5, Funny

      Just thank your lucky stars that you're not in Linux-land, or some other godawful free software environment, 'cause you would have to type

      >apt-get upgrade

      in a terminal. This is obviously way too difficult for any human being, so bless Gates and Ballmer and whoever came after him for letting us not have to type that

      --
      My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
    5. Re:u wot m8 by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 5, Funny

      Just thank your lucky stars that you're not in Linux-land, or some other godawful free software environment, 'cause you would have to type

      >apt-get upgrade

      in a terminal. This is obviously way too difficult for any human being, ...

      Don't kid yourself, it would be: apt-get dist-upgrade

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    6. Re:u wot m8 by CTU · · Score: 1

      that is not to bad, but say old dos games with dosbox are a PITA to run.A nice Gui works well saves tme and avoids the mess of a spelling error cock blocking system use.

    7. Re:u wot m8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually "apt-get update" normally breaks things for me. Window updates require a lot of annoying restarts, but at least the GUI comes back. Most of the time when I update one of my linux boxes it completely breaks and then I spend hours trying to figure out what happened. Half the time I give up and do a complete reinstall. I have never had a seemless distro update even though I try it every time (I'm getting good at backing things up) and my current LMDE update says it wants to hold back packages.

      This is coming from a CS Masters student who built his own T60p/T61 laptop, has manually updated LCD firmware, uses Unix tools for CS research, writes documents in LaTex, compiled Acme (Plan 9 text editor) on an unsupported architecture, and actively uses Raspbian, Puppy Linux, Linux Mint DE, and Ubuntu.

    8. Re:u wot m8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I have upgraded every version of Fedora from 18 to 20 with fedup. So far so good. Nothing broken and everything is so good.

      And don't compare windows "update" with GNU/Linux upgrade. You should have tried upgrading from XP to Win7 or Vista to Win 8 before saying that.

      If upgrading is so painful, why don't you go for a rolling release?

      I switched to Tumbleweed channel three years back in another box and all I do is just update (no upgrades)

    9. Re:u wot m8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You know what's even more user-friendly?
      Just clicking the little update icon in the bottom right corner, entering your root password, and clicking OK.

      I know how your type likes to hate on everything Linux without having any clue what you're talking about, but seriously, upgrading your distro isn't rocket science.

    10. Re:u wot m8 by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      Actually "apt-get update" normally breaks things for me. Window updates require a lot of annoying restarts, but at least the GUI comes back. Most of the time when I update one of my linux boxes it completely breaks and then I spend hours trying to figure out what happened. Half the time I give up and do a complete reinstall. I have never had a seemless distro update even though I try it every time [...] actively uses Raspbian, Puppy Linux, Linux Mint DE, and Ubuntu.

      Well, there's your problem. Just use Debian.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    11. Re:u wot m8 by gl4ss · · Score: 2, Insightful

      well they released an update that you must get to get updates!

      just another MS win8 era naming fail. how they can fuck up so badly is a miracle.

      (and nevermind that windows 8 is what.. under 2 years old?? and 8.1 is not getting security updates now?? )

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    12. Re:u wot m8 by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Funny

      But when will we finally get an update for the update of the update to the update?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    13. Re:u wot m8 by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 2

      If you're a linux prophet, how do you know about windows and upgrading?

      I ask this because pert damn near everyone I've worked with over the past 15 years knows that when you move to a new Microsoft release, it's a wipe and reinstall.

      And just like Star Trek Movies, every second windows release sucks. XP was great, Vista sucked balls, win 7was ok, win 8 ran for goatse .

      (p.s. - never upgrade until the second service pack for the release)

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    14. Re:u wot m8 by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Name one president who hasn't.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    15. Re:u wot m8 by JMJimmy · · Score: 1

      But when will we finally get an update for the update of the update to the update?

      When they start supporting Windows 8 - I'm still waiting for it to happen.

    16. Re:u wot m8 by sjames · · Score: 1

      The only time I've had significant breakage is when I have heavily modified something and hacked it in rather than doing it the right way.

      When a new version goes stable, I wait a few days, then dist-upgrade one machine and look it over. Then I upgrade in batches of 6 or so. Never a significant problem.

      Doing updates within the same major version is even easier.

    17. Re:u wot m8 by MouseTheLuckyDog · · Score: 2

      Tsk Tsk. You made it too simple.
      You have to type
      apt-get update
      then
      apt-get upgrade
      then
      you have to wait for a prompt and type Y [RETURN]

    18. Re:u wot m8 by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      C'mon, we all know that peanuthead doesn't count.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    19. Re:u wot m8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is all well and good, however my work laptop results in BSOD after the update and rolls back to situation before the update.

      So no updates for my work laptop and nobody want to the responsibility of fixing it - neither MS or HP.

      Good times, good times...

    20. Re:u wot m8 by Ghaoth · · Score: 1

      There is a BIG difference between update and upgrade.
      Updates are usually simple or transparent regardless of OS. Although Scumsoft always requires a reboot.
      Upgrades are usually best done to a new machine or disk so that legacy configurations do not conflict with the new versions or leave orphans hanging around. Migration of data from the old version to the new upgraded version ensures that you have a backup in case shit happens.

      --
      Nos Morituri te salutamus
    21. Re:u wot m8 by jopsen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know what's even more user-friendly? Just clicking the little update icon in the bottom right corner, entering your root password, and clicking OK.

      I know how your type likes to hate on everything Linux without having any clue what you're talking about, but seriously, upgrading your distro isn't rocket science.

      In all fairness, fixing a broken update can, however, be close to rocket science :)
      I use linux, and will continue to... But in this day and age, with all desktops going towards composite window managers, sucky nvidia drivers is a pain in the ass.
      But it's a matter of luck when buying a laptop...

    22. Re:u wot m8 by Randle_Revar · · Score: 1

      I think you mean "dist-upgrade". But even then you are doing something amazingly wrong.

    23. Re:u wot m8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm the parent poster. I'm only responding once and for everyone who replied to my post (ACs can't post a lot so I can't reply to each comment specifically).

      You're right. I've never done an XP to Win7 like upgrade on Windows. However, the Windows community doesn't constantly advertise that it's update system is near perfect. Thinking about it a little more, it's more individual applications breaking than the core OS. In my mind Windows gets a break from that but Linux doesn't it's OS and apps all seemingly come from the same source.

      I keep upgrading because it always teaches me something new. My last LMDE broke because of the security warnings on the packages. When attempting to fix them, I eventually removed all my repos and clicked the default button thinking it would restore the original settings. Nope. Eventually I gave up trying to fix problems I caused trying to fix the security warning (there was another problem, but I forget what it was) and wiped everything clean. The 6 to 7 notes said to ignore the warnings but the 7 to 8 notes didn't, so I assumed those issues were fixed in 7 (updates are supposed to fix known problems) and that the was a problem with my configuration.

      I'm not a linux prophet, I was showing that I know more than just clicking buttons. I dual boot Windows for a couple games and as a developer I consider it an unofficial part of my job to stay up to date with the latest software my users might be using. I need to know how users expect my software to behave. I'm one of those guys who believes in following a platform's standard compared to reinventing your own GUI widgets and being innovative. I also provide tech help to all my relatives and I haven't been able to convert them to Linux yet (100% Outlook and Word compatibility required).

      I do prefer installing Linux compared to Windows. The installation is now easy for both of them, but you spend a day checking, downloading, installing, restarting, the repeating the process over and over for Windows updates while Linux does it all in one shot.

    24. Re:u wot m8 by Zappy · · Score: 1, Funny

      $ apt-get upgrade
      bash: apt-get: command not found...

      Hmm, I think that would be
      $ sudo yum -y update :-)

    25. Re:u wot m8 by stooo · · Score: 5, Funny

      if rocket science was so easy as a "sudo apt-get install -f" and a "sudo dpkg --configure -a" , I would probably be building a moon base :)

      --
      aaaaaaa
    26. Re:u wot m8 by thsths · · Score: 1

      Yes, you can get an update for the update of the update to the update.
      But there are no longer updates for the update of the update.

    27. Re:u wot m8 by Yaur · · Score: 2

      It's all fun and games until libc needs an update.

    28. Re:u wot m8 by kevingolding2001 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I feel that you were supposed to write 'Yo Dawg' somewhere in there.

    29. Re:u wot m8 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      For rocket science, it's

      unzip ksp-linux-0-23-5.zip

      O:-)

    30. Re:u wot m8 by tiny69 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I use Slackware, you insensitive clod.

      --
      Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
    31. Re:u wot m8 by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

      Nope, you got it all wrong. It is:
      # yum upgrade -y

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    32. Re:u wot m8 by penix1 · · Score: 2

      emerge -uD world

      Do it right... ;-)

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    33. Re:u wot m8 by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      This is MCSE's we are talking about, using the keyboard like that is not a part of their training.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    34. Re:u wot m8 by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Or just paying attention and buying a laptop with AMD instead of Nvidia. I know it's unacceptable to make people actually look beyond the color of the laptop when they buy it, but it really needs to be done.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    35. Re:u wot m8 by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      or you can be smart and download the patch set and do the whole thing OFFLINE (hint check out WSUSOFFLINE)

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    36. Re:u wot m8 by HJED · · Score: 3, Funny

      it's not rocket science that prevents that, it's the cost of building the rockets.

      --
      null
    37. Re:u wot m8 by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      It's all fun and games until libc needs an update.

      Really? libc updated on my Debian system about a month and half back, and it went smooth as silk. Just sat back and let aptitude handle it all and then rebooted. I didn't have to do anything at all.

    38. Re:u wot m8 by HJED · · Score: 1

      because aptitude always seems to want to unistall half my packages whenever I run it and I don't have time to work out why,

      --
      null
    39. Re:u wot m8 by Cryacin · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's turtles all the way down until you hit a tortoise and a SVN repository.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    40. Re:u wot m8 by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      I recently mangled yum by running out of RAM mid-updates. That was ugly. Really ugly. Fixed it, but more through luck than skill.

    41. Re:u wot m8 by mysidia · · Score: 1
      Try again...

      do-release-upgrade

    42. Re:u wot m8 by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Oh... Redhat lover..... Actually, there's a problem with that: It will only upgrade packages within a release, AND you can't upgrade to the new release.

      It's like being stuck at Windows XP Service Pack 1, and having to go do an offline boot from CD update from CD install media to go to SP2.

      So it's really "Insert RHEL 6 CD"; Go through installer again; Windows has a much better experience....

      Ubuntu's release upgrade process is also OK

    43. Re:u wot m8 by mysidia · · Score: 1

      yawn apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade -y

    44. Re:u wot m8 by Feanorian · · Score: 1

      I type

      sudo yaourt -Syua

      like a real man.

    45. Re:u wot m8 by conquistadorst · · Score: 1

      Just thank your lucky stars that you're not in Linux-land, or some other godawful free software environment, 'cause you would have to type

      >apt-get upgrade

      in a terminal. This is obviously way too difficult for any human being, so bless Gates and Ballmer and whoever came after him for letting us not have to type that

      While I agree everyone should have a minimum level of technical expertise to survive in today's world. I'm picturing my mother calling me asking how to open a prompt, type in the command, among 1000's of other commands... everyday. No thanks!

    46. Re:u wot m8 by seanvaandering · · Score: 1

      * */8 * * * emerge --sync --quiet && emerge -e --quiet world && emerge --depclean --quiet && revdep-rebuild --quiet

      When I told Gramma to type exactly that, she kept saying it wouldn't work!

      ...and they said Linux was easier. "Go ahead" they said. "It's just two words" they said. "You can type two words, can't you?" they said....

    47. Re:u wot m8 by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes basically the article is saying that any major patches for Windows 8.1 in future will have a dependency upon prior patches being installed. In other words how it's always been since the beginning of time.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    48. Re:u wot m8 by MrNemesis · · Score: 1

      So let me get this straight...

      Microsoft upped 8 to 8.1 and again to Update 1? And now Microsoft ate point one and the 8.1 Update 1 update won? When does 8.1 Update 1 update to 2?

      --
      Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
    49. Re:u wot m8 by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      From what I can tell 8.1 Update is having some installation issues meanwhile the Server Update Service is having issues with SSL. All very embarrassing for MS I'm sure.

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    50. Re:u wot m8 by brainstem · · Score: 1

      apt-get update && apt-get upgrade -y There you go. Single line.

    51. Re:u wot m8 by supremebob · · Score: 1

      Which is great, until the update breaks XOrg and then you spend the next hour in single user mode editing configuration files in vi to get it working right again.

      True Ubuntu story... thanks to those wonderful nVidia "Optimus" drivers.

    52. Re:u wot m8 by slashmydots · · Score: 1

      No no no. If it was a service pack, it'd be supported for more than...what was that, a week? Whatever this is gives it predecessor the boot after a much shorter period of time. I think Vista SP1 lasted a year or so.

    53. Re:u wot m8 by zarthrag · · Score: 1

      Yo Dawg! I heard you like Windows 8.1...

      ...so I stopped updating Windows 8.1 so you'd update to Windows 8.1 so you can update Windows 8.1!

      --
      Why can't all fpga/microcontroller manufacturers just release free optimizing compilers???
    54. Re:u wot m8 by ctrlshift · · Score: 1

      When does 8.1 Update 1 update to 2?

      It doesn't, it goes to 8.1 Update 1 SP1. At least until 8.1 Update 1 SP1 Rollup 1 comes out. Then 8.1 Update 1 SP1 will no longer be supported, though you may have to continue using it until they release an appropriate fix for Windows Update in the form of 8.1 Update 1 SP1 Rollup 1 Subrevision 1

    55. Re:u wot m8 by m.alessandrini · · Score: 1

      No, they must update to Windows XP. Unsupported as well, but faster!

    56. Re:u wot m8 by Thruen · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Right? People should learn they're better off having their hardware choices severely limited by their OS... Honestly, comments like this highlight why most users will never switch to Linux: the things you consider basic knowledge are things the average user never wants to even consider learning about. People who are primarily concerned with the color of their laptop do not know or care to know about the difference between AMD and nVidia, they want whichever comes in the white laptop and they just want it to work when they turn it on. You say they need to look at more, the thing is they really don't and there's no good reason they should have to.

    57. Re:u wot m8 by fnj · · Score: 1

      You guys are ALL wrong. Don't you know? It's sudo pacman -Syu.

    58. Re:u wot m8 by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yo Dawg! I hear you like updates ... so I got you an update so you can update while you're updating.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    59. Re:u wot m8 by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Yep. My first thought after reading the "just type 'apt-get upgrade'" post was "...and then spend several hours trying to figure out WTF got screwed up in xorg.conf"

      (I'm not sure if such a sentiment is fair, since I haven't actually tried doing it in a couple of years...)

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    60. Re:u wot m8 by benmhall · · Score: 1

      Yes, you can get an update for the update of the update to the update.
      But there are no longer updates for the update of the update.

      You forgot to cite Lenovo's System Update as the source of that amazing sentence. ;-)

    61. Re:u wot m8 by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Fixing a broken update can be simply rolling back to a btrfs snapshot.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    62. Re:u wot m8 by David_W · · Score: 1

      > yawn apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade -y
      zsh: command not found: yawn

    63. Re:u wot m8 by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      Fedora supports upgrades for a year or so. FedUp FTW.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    64. Re:u wot m8 by torsmo · · Score: 1

      I have actually met a Flat-Earther. He was quite a stuck-up little git.

    65. Re:u wot m8 by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      fixing a broken update can, however, be close to rocket science

      I once learned the hard way why you should never ever ever ever abort a running apt-get process. Fun times.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    66. Re:u wot m8 by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Yep. My first thought after reading the "just type 'apt-get upgrade'" post was "...and then spend several hours trying to figure out WTF got screwed up in xorg.conf"

      (I have no idea what I'm talking about, since I haven't actually tried doing it in a couple of years...)

      FTFY

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    67. Re:u wot m8 by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      --quiet --quiet --quiet --quiet

      So you can have no idea what happened when it explodes partway through?

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    68. Re:u wot m8 by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      LMDE is a bad example; it's the bleeding-edge version of Mint. I can't even remember the last time apt-get upgrade (update is actually the command that fetches the package list) screwed me on mainstream Ubuntu or Mint.

      In other news, Windows users don't like Gentoo either (although that's a hyperbolic comparison).

      actively uses Raspbian, Puppy Linux, Linux Mint DE, and Ubuntu.

      You get the same apt-get screwage in Ubuntu and normal Mint? Did you accidentally put a curse on your computer or something?

      Unless if this is all a lie and you're just shilling, which I kind of have to consider because of your ACness and the improbability of all your statements being simultaneously true.
      (computer expert) ^ (knows Unix tools) ^ (apt-get doesn't work anywhere)

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    69. Re:u wot m8 by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      *(computer expert) ^ (knows Unix tools) ^ (doesn't even get apt-get terminology right) ^ (apt-get doesn't work anywhere)

      Hmm...maybe those last 2 are somehow related.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    70. Re:u wot m8 by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Herp Derp much?

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    71. Re:u wot m8 by ppanon · · Score: 1

      Brane or string theory.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    72. Re:u wot m8 by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Well you don't have to. Lots of Linux distros will provide a nice little GUI pop-up that tells you that updates are available, and if you click "Ok" or "Update now" or whatever, it'll do the rest on its own. That's how most Microsoft updates work too, though you can also script them too. The differences really aren't so earth-shattering.

    73. Re:u wot m8 by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      It's not so obvious how to do this though. It shows up as an "important" patch, which means it doesn't get installed by default. And it's not called "Windows 8.1 Update 1", instead it's just one of a long stream of Windows 8.1 64 bit patches with the same generic name. You recognize which one it is by the 6 digit patch number.

      It's not a service pack though, it's pretty small overall.

    74. Re:u wot m8 by SiChemist · · Score: 1

      Or, you just clicky clicky an update button when the alert appears in your system tray.

    75. Re:u wot m8 by djrobxx · · Score: 1

      In all fairness, fixing a broken update can, however, be close to rocket science :)

      My favorite is when I did a dist-upgrade, and Debian left me without a kernel to boot from. Grrrr... In fairness, it was quite a while ago.

    76. Re:u wot m8 by gonnagetya · · Score: 1

      Absolute fucking bullshit. I've once bought a laptop with an Intel graphics chipset because Intel was supposed to be the best supported of all the graphics chipsets in Linux, what with completely open source drivers and whatnot. Yet I discovered they worked WORSE in Linux compared to Windows. Games would often hard-lock in Linux when they worked fine in Windows, and would at the very least run slower in Linux compared to Windows. People still complain about the quality of AMD drivers to this day and the substandard functionality/performance of the open AMD drivers.

      Fuck all this shit in assuming that by picking a particular brand of hardware that things will work out nicely. It's no guarantee at all, and I don't care any longer about what the zealots say, I'm thoroughly burnt out dealing with this crap on Linux.

    77. Re:u wot m8 by jopsen · · Score: 1

      Or just paying attention and buying a laptop with AMD instead of Nvidia.

      Made that mistake 4 years ago... it wasn't any better...

      I find the only thing that just works (tm) is Intel Graphics, but those are hard to find in highend laptops.
      My current Thinkpad W530 has Nvida primus, so I disable just disabled the Nvida card and use the builtin intel card, which then won't connect to external screens.

    78. Re:u wot m8 by jopsen · · Score: 1

      I recently mangled yum by running out of RAM mid-updates. That was ugly. Really ugly. Fixed it, but more through luck than skill.

      Lol, that's impressive :)

    79. Re:u wot m8 by mysidia · · Score: 1

      I would be fed up with FedUp... if I were you

      Wake me, when there's a RHELUp available to go from RHEL5 to RHEL6.

      More seriously.... I don't run production systems on Fedora, and I don't think anyone should.

      Fedora is more of a developer desktop OS; that gives an idea of what the future version of RHEL might look like in the future.

    80. Re:u wot m8 by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      It was a VM, allocated just enough RAM to do what it needs to do.

    81. Re:u wot m8 by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      In that case, your conclusion of "RedHat lover" on a mention of yum was wrong, if RedHat means RHEL. Fedoras, the latest, riskiest and cutting-edgest ones, do use yum; and they do support upgrade.

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    82. Re:u wot m8 by Parker+Lewis · · Score: 1

      Yeap, very effective and simple. Because Windows 8.2 is too much upstream. Next iteration will be Windows 8.1 Update 1 Update 1.

    83. Re:u wot m8 by Kubla+Kahhhn! · · Score: 1

      Won't nearly everyone in this thread fail because they forgot to type sudo ? :p

    84. Re:u wot m8 by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Maybe they already did sudo su -

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    85. Re:u wot m8 by Karzz1 · · Score: 1

      Normally the fix is:

      rpm --rebuilddb
      yum clean metadata

      Was there more involved for your fix?

      --
      Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
    86. Re:u wot m8 by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      First thing google told me to do, yes. Good thing I spotted that it was going to try to uninstall a few things like libc. I can't remember what I did exactly, but something to wipe the list of pending jobs so it wouldn't try to rollback the 'failed' installation of essential packages,

    87. Re:u wot m8 by JBJblaze · · Score: 1

      Next up: Windows 8.1 Update 1 Update 1 Update 1 Update 1...

  2. Now I Know... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    A friend of mine is coming by this arvo for help with his Windows 8.1 laptop which Windows Update apparently broke.

    Looks like I have some bad news for him... but at least I know *what* to tell him now. Cheers.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    1. Re:Now I Know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Looks like I have some bad news for him...

      I dunno, this sounds like good news to me: "since Microsoft can't support their product as required by consumer law you should pack up your piece of shit Windows machine and take it back for a refund, then walk down to the local Apple Store and buy an iMac or a MacBook: they're great mate!"

    2. Re:Now I Know... by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Tell him that M$ have done the same old, same old, attempted to correct their failures in the cheapest way possible by shoving the cost back on consumers. Can't get the upgrade to work, suck it up, format, re-install, repatch, re-upgrade and repatch and the restore you back up data, don't have backups, M$ answer to you, well, that's your fault for trusting their software.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    3. Re:Now I Know... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      What are they not supporting? Are you really claiming that they aren't no longer releasing patches for Windows 8.1 unless you patch Windows 8.1?

      Is it really valid to claim that an OS vendor cannot require chained updates? That sounds pretty much ridiculous to me.

    4. Re:Now I Know... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Informative

      Winows 8.1 update 1.

      It's just an awkward versioning scheme. If this was the unix world, they'd be talking about no longer updating 8.1.0 and requiring customers update to 8.1.1.

    5. Re:Now I Know... by number17 · · Score: 1

      Over 20,000 results say differently.

    6. Re:Now I Know... by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the internal OS version is actually 6.3 (or 6.2 depending on how your program is compiled)

    7. Re:Now I Know... by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      And that's what percentage of Mint upgrades? There's going to be a fuckton of duplicates in that list, too.

      Look, I can pull grossly inaccurate numbers out of my ass, too! Here's a few: 47 19 297 4,359,291 -945,651

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    8. Re:Now I Know... by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      and then the unix world would say the only support for 8.1.0 is the update that causes it to be 8.1.1. Microsoft is doing the exact same thing with different names.

    9. Re:Now I Know... by 14erCleaner · · Score: 1

      If this was the unix world, they'd be talking about no longer updating 8.1.0 and requiring customers update to 8.1.1.

      If this were Ubuntu, they'd be upgrading from Persnickety Panda to Persnickety Panda Possum.

      --
      Have you read my blog lately?
    10. Re:Now I Know... by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Well in that case it's a good thing they're not giving money to a company founded by Hitler or anything. (Hint: companies are not evil. No company in existence can actually have that moniker applied to them - they are at best amoral, probably even ethically impaired. But evil most definitely is far too hyperbolic).

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
  3. Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 2

    "a wide range of errors, from 800F0092 to 80070003, for which there are no solutions from Microsoft."

    Story of our Lives. Here we are.

    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
    1. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by jones_supa · · Score: 1, Interesting

      At least it fails gracefully with a clean error code. In Linux world it would show up as a dialog with corrupted text and a mysterious "Invalid argument" error message written in some log. ;)

    2. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wonder what I'd prefer ... clean crash along with the info that there will never be a patch to it, or a segfault where I will no later than 3 days later have a patch delivered... Decisions, decisions...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      They are all one error really - the FU2 error from Microsoft.

    4. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by FireFury03 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      At least it fails gracefully with a clean error code. In Linux world it would show up as a dialog with corrupted text and a mysterious "Invalid argument" error message written in some log. ;)

      Mostly under Linux the error messages are useful to someone technical. Increasingly other OSes (Windows, OS X, iOS, Android) consider useful error mesages to be not user friendly and just give you a generic "something broke" error that is no use to man nor beast - frequently I'm left digging out tcpdump to diagnose customer's problems because the application itself won't give me any information (yes, even in the system log) - I shouldn't need to tcpdump their IMAP traffic to discover that the server is telling them their password is wrong damnit!

    5. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by aybiss · · Score: 1

      It always amazes me that someone at Microsoft's job is to maintain a table of unique error codes for all their software, but it's nobody's job to document or publish that table.

      --
      It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
    6. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by stooo · · Score: 1

      >> I shouldn't need to tcpdump their IMAP traffic to discover that the server is telling them their password is wrong damnit!

      You should use encryption and not be able to analyze the traffic anyway.

      --
      aaaaaaa
    7. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      A clean error code that has the message "An unknown error has occurred". Now maybe it's just me but if you know enough about the error to assign it a specific code then how can it be unknown?

    8. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by LordLimecat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How long did it take Ubuntu 12.10 to fix their "installing this OS bricks E1000 adapters" bug?

      Anyone claiming Linux doesnt have these sorts of issues is full of shit.

    9. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by bloodhawk · · Score: 1

      The same issues exist in open source and can take weeks, months or sometimes never to get fixed depending on whether you can find someone that wants to spend time and has the information to investigate such problems. Any significant upgrade brings with it a small fraction of a percent of people that have strange configs, customisations and/or drivers and hardware that simply were not thought of or encountered during testing. invariably those issues take a lot longer to resolve than failures that affect everyone.

    10. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      >> I shouldn't need to tcpdump their IMAP traffic to discover that the server is telling them their password is wrong damnit!

      You should use encryption and not be able to analyze the traffic anyway.

      Oh, don't get me wrong, everyone uses encryption. Unfortunately a few times over the past couple of years I've ended up getting people to temporarilly turn encryption off so I can dump the traffic and see WTF is going wrong because the damned applications won't display or log a useful error. I know *most* people don't understand technical error messages, but would it kill them to stick a "details" button on the dumbed-down error popup to make it trivial for a techie to ask the user to click it and read out a more useful message?

    11. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The issues of "this is never going to be fixed despite a sizable portion of the userbase having trouble with it"?

      Care to give an example where this actually was the case? And please don't cite bricking E1000s, I said "sizable".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    12. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Again, small fraction of people. We're far from a small fraction of people having issues with the 8.1 Upgrade/Update/servicepack/bullshitword-du-jour.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    13. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      the point is, most of these issues are NOT OS related, they are caused by bad software, bad hardware, bad drivers and bad configs. whether it is Linux or Windows it takes a LOT of time to sort out those issues,

    14. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Thats from a blogger who very clearly is attempting to paint this as negatively as possible. Generally I prefer facts, not hysterical opinion.

      Microsoft's official statement was that you must install a certain update in order to get further updates. Im sure I could find examples of that in all OSes; dependencies are nothing new.

    15. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by Sipper · · Score: 1

      At least it fails gracefully with a clean error code. In Linux world it would show up as a dialog with corrupted text and a mysterious "Invalid argument" error message written in some log. ;)

      I wouldn't call "erorr 800F0092" to be a "clean" error code -- more like a bizarre confusing unintelligible error code. The errors in Linux can sometimes be frustrating too, or might even be hidden in a log like you pointed out, but they're never designed to be as unintelligible as many of the Windows system error messages are. On Windows there seem to be two kinds of error messages: ones for developers and ones for users; "error 800F0092" vs "check the cable", and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot in-between. At least on Linux systems you get a full range of them. ;-)

    16. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by steveo777 · · Score: 1

      I've been doing Windowsy stuff for a long time now, to the point where if I don't immediately recognize an error there's a 50% chance I'll need to get Microsoft on the phone and submit stack traces to figure out WTF happened. Those are always fun.

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
    17. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't you have validated their password from the web portal side of things in the first place. That's sort of like trying to figure out how a lock works when you should have just turned the knob in the first place.

      Some of you guys way over analyze shit by making mountains out of mole hills. 9 times out of 10, it's fucking user error!!!

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    18. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't you have validated their password from the web portal side of things in the first place.

      Ok, (1) what web portal? (2) when your email client is giving you a generic "something broke" message, how do you know to validate the password? Or are you going to validate *everything* one thing at a time until you (hopefully) find what's wrong rather than properly diagnosing the problem?

    19. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Where do you get imap mail that doesn't offer some form of webmail? Even Exchange does.

      Second, ruling out the most common user errors/issues is the FIRST thing you do. Other applications generally give different styles of error messages in their rejections, allowing you perhaps to figure it out easier.

      When you hear hooves stampeding in America ... you look for horses, not zebras.

      I hope you don't do desktop support or consider yourself a good debugger, you seem to have no experience.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    20. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      An error code which is fairly unique and stands a good chance of returning the correct, related web pages if you search for it in any search engine.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    21. Re:Wanna give up on these guys yet ? by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Ok, (1) what web portal? (2) when your email client is giving you a generic "something broke" message, how do you know to validate the password?

      Occam's razor. It should be applied when troubleshooting.

      E-mail passwords often expire on custom hosted servers. E-mail passwords for accounts hosted by your ISP, Gmail, Yahoo, Outlook.com..etc, don't. Company hosted mail, yes, quite common for that to happen. Especially true of your using a company Exchange server as the credentials are tied back to Active Directory.

      The only time I've ever broke down a TCP/IP dump file was when troubleshooting PPTP VPN connectivity over a Verizon air card seven years ago (SSL VPN; use it yeah yeah, I know..) The problem was that some segments of their network were configured differently depending on what cell tower you were communicating against. For whatever reason, Verizon had a problem in that it was breaking the GRE protocol. Eventually, we isolated which which of the three cell towers were causing the problem out in the field (refinery complex for safety crewmen needing to log with a remote laptop).

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
  4. It's OK for Apple but not Microsoft? by plover · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple doesn't support more than one version of iOS. If you want to fix a problem with 6.1.2, you get to go to whatever version is current (7.1). You don't get to go to 6.1.3, you don't get to go to 7.0.5 or 7.0.6, you go to 7.1. Your choice is "upgrade or don't."

    --
    John
    1. Re:It's OK for Apple but not Microsoft? by rsmith-mac · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well you're comparing phones/appliances to computers, so yes.

      Windows has for many years now used a multiple-tier support strategy (the Windows Lifecycle policy). Microsoft supports an OS for 10 years, and during that period if they issue a service pack then they support the previous sub-version of Windows for 2 years. Windows 8.1 Update is about 30% of a service pack; the update contains a number of feature enhancements and on a code level it becomes a "base" OS that all future updates are built against. So unlike a normal security update, you can't skip Windows 8.1 Update and still get other security updates. This in turn can be interpreted as a violation of the Lifecycle Policy, as it's functionally a service pack and therefore Microsoft should continue providing security updates for Windows 8.1 (sans Update) for 2 years.

      iOS on the other hand offers no such policy. You are expected to use the most recent version of the OS and Apple has never said any differently, full stop.

      Never mind the huge difference between an OS for a disposable device, and an OS for computers that is expected to last for a decade or more and is interfaced with massive amounts of custom hardware and software. Unsurprisingly, the type of device and the expected use case for it is a big factor in how long an OS is supported and how OS updates are handled.

    2. Re:It's OK for Apple but not Microsoft? by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Informative

      I dare say it's a close call if you migrate from ME...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:It's OK for Apple but not Microsoft? by stooo · · Score: 1, Insightful

      >> Well you're comparing phones/appliances to computers, so yes.

      Phones and appliances are computers.

      --
      aaaaaaa
    4. Re:It's OK for Apple but not Microsoft? by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      Windows is a desktop OS not a phone OS.

      I hear that you have not yet tried Metro.

      Apple still supports as far back as Snow Leapard. Microsoft is a shitty company and if you weren't such a dorky gamer you would just move on to something better.

      Microsoft just recently dropped support for XP.

    5. Re:It's OK for Apple but not Microsoft? by whisper_jeff · · Score: 1

      You're comparing a phone operating system to a computer operating system. Aside from both having the words "operating system" in their descriptors, they are damn near nothing alike.

      How about you compare OSX and Windows? Oh. That's right. You're not doing that because then your attempt to paint Apple in a negative light would fall apart.

      5, Insightful indeed... More like 5, Troll that we agree with.

    6. Re:It's OK for Apple but not Microsoft? by jittles · · Score: 1

      Never mind the huge difference between an OS for a disposable device, and an OS for computers that is expected to last for a decade or more

      Since when were computers ever supposed to last a decade? In the United States, the IRS (tax agency) allows you to deduct computer costs in the year they are purchased. For a durable good the IRS forces you to amortize the cost of a business expense over the life expectancy of the item. So that tells you that even the federal government doesn't expect your computer to be worth keeping long term. I might keep a computer for 5-6 years for browsing the internet and checking my email (perhaps even longer) but 3-4 years for a work computer is very long indeed! I'll be keeping my cellphone for 4-5 years if the battery life is acceptable.

    7. Re:It's OK for Apple but not Microsoft? by tepples · · Score: 1

      I hear that you have not yet tried Metro.

      Tried it, didn't like it, got rid of it. Windows 8 has worked fine for me since.

    8. Re:It's OK for Apple but not Microsoft? by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      IRS tax policy has nothing to do with computer usefulness. It's office equipment, not simply PCs.

    9. Re:It's OK for Apple but not Microsoft? by c2me2 · · Score: 1

      Phones ARE computers.

    10. Re:It's OK for Apple but not Microsoft? by unimacs · · Score: 1

      With a different purpose and traditionally a different market than desktop computers.

      Some of this has changed and will continue to change over time, but your typical IOS device is purchased by an individual rather than a business and replaced a couple of year later. While home users still purchase PCs they do it far less often than they used to. Businesses purchase far more than home users.

      Further IOS updates are free and typically upgrading is simple and uneventful (typically). Most software is still compatible and those titles that aren't are usually updated quickly as well. New versions cost little or nothing.

      So on the IOS side you typically have newer hardware and ease of updates. Plus most users are chomping at the bit to upgrade. There are exceptions. On the PC side it's different. Lost of home users have older hardware that may not support the update. Or they're worried the update will break something. Or they don't want to pay for it.

      Businesses may have custom software that simply won't run under the new OS and would be expensive to rewrite. Large businesses tend to be slow to roll updates out to their employees even if they want to.

    11. Re:It's OK for Apple but not Microsoft? by unimacs · · Score: 1

      Note: Over time as innovation in both smartphone/tablet hardware and software slows, and businesses come to rely on software that may not work with the latest IOS/Android update, there may be increasingly stronger calls for Apple and others to offer patches to older versions of their table/phone OSes rather than forcing users to upgrade.

    12. Re:It's OK for Apple but not Microsoft? by Threni · · Score: 1

      > I might keep a computer for 5-6 years for browsing the internet and checking my
      > email (perhaps even longer) but 3-4 years for a work computer is very long indeed! I'll
      > be keeping my cellphone for 4-5 years if the battery life is acceptable.

      Opposite for me. New smartphone every couple of years (as the OS versions keep coming, phones get faster, screens larger and nicer) whereas I build a new desktop every 4 or 5 (because I have windows base, on XP for years and now 7 for the foreseeable future, and a Linux Mint LTS distro for 3+ years) because of the stagnation of the platform means I miss nothing (except stuff like usb3 or unstable ssd drives which - when working - would contribute little to my productivity).

  5. Jeez by vux984 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just patch windows 8.1 with the update. It makes the OS unequivocally better. Whining about it is just silly.

    1. Re:Jeez by x0ra · · Score: 5, Informative

      unless you *cannot* update because the update is broken...

    2. Re:Jeez by nhstar · · Score: 2

      If I read it right, the problem is that a number of users are having issues with installing Update 1 and have yet to find solutions... While that really is a problem, I feel that the headline here was meant more to get people bashing some more.

      $0.02

      --
      --- no sig to see here... move along.
    3. Re:Jeez by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Since when was Server 2012 R2 unsupported?

    4. Re:Jeez by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      As is always the case with situations like this it's not that the update is broken it's that there is some common software that prevents it installing.

      That should not be possible. If it is, then both the update and the OS are broken.

      This isn't even a Windows specific issue, god only knows I've had Linux software break enough times that apt-get update fails on some items.

      Yes. Apt-get is really pretty miserable. It just happens to be better than everything else. Although, to be fair, there is no permission-fixing tool, something that commercial Unixes had back in the 1980s. That's horrendous. Having to reinstall all packages on the system to fix perms is insane.

      I'm not overtly trying to defend Microsoft here, but I do sympathise with the problem and it would be completely dishonest to claim only Microsoft has this problem.

      Nobody claimed that. You wrote that whole comment just so you could wind up by attacking a straw man? I see why you didn't log in.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Jeez by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      If the permission issue is small, you can at least *find* the permission problem in Redhat with rpm -Va and look for anything flagged as having [M]ode, [U]ser, or [G]roup discrepancies. For Windows (at least back in the XP days), the standard solution seemed to be to recursively give Administrator ownership and full permission everywhere.

      I don't know if there is similar on Debian, I've simply never had that problem. I only know the RedHat command as it's useful for security auditing.

    6. Re:Jeez by laffer1 · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry but I don't buy this. Microsoft broke Windows 8.1's installer so bad that if you had a mouse driver installed for a gamer mouse, it would BSOD and die.

      Mouse drivers are incompatible between 8.0 and 8.1! I haven't had a mouse problem since windows 3.1 to 95 update.

      I think Microsoft has some quality control issues.

    7. Re:Jeez by neye_eve · · Score: 1

      And here we see, in its natural environment, another post showing how difficult it is to tell the difference between witty, sharp commentary, and a person who just didn't RTFA.

    8. Re:Jeez by geekoid · · Score: 1

      What mouse?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    9. Re:Jeez by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Well if your update is broken, then you wouldn't be getting updates if Microsoft had continued to produce them for the pre-"Update" version. So...?

    10. Re:Jeez by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      It's not obvious how to do this though. And when someone does figure it out, sometimes it breaks during the upgrade with no solution.

    11. Re:Jeez by vux984 · · Score: 1

      It's not obvious how to do this though. And when someone does figure it out, sometimes it breaks during the upgrade with no solution.

      So therefore one should not update?

      This seems at worst, an embarrassing problem (for microsoft) that -will- be sorted out soon.

      I mean, I recall the various XP service packs having issues on some systems too over the years, and never once was "I guess we'll just stay on SP1" the answer I or any other competent admin ever went with.*

      * - to be fair there are some bits of software that some companies relied on that only worked on XP SP2 or earlier etc, and competent admins elected to stay on the older service pack, but that isn't the case here, and isn't relevant to the case here. No one is choosing to stay pre-update because of 3rd party issues, only issues with installing the update itself, and it should be plain to all that resolutions will be forthcoming for that.

    12. Re:Jeez by gonnagetya · · Score: 1

      It could be for any number of reasons. I remember reinstalling Vista during the release candidate days of Windows 7. I had a reproducible issue in that if you tried installing all the updates available, eventually Vista would bomb out and complain it can't install them and waste time "reverting" the updates. This was after installing basic drivers to get network functionality - no extra software or fiddling.

      Gave up, got the Win 7 RC and never looked back.

    13. Re:Jeez by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The issue is more with the home users, without an in-house IT support group. They most likely don't even know what Windows 8.1 Update 1 is, much less that they should be on the net researching how to get it installed.

    14. Re:Jeez by Cosmo-san · · Score: 1

      Psh, like that'd happen.

    15. Re:Jeez by vux984 · · Score: 1

      They most likely don't even know what Windows 8.1 Update 1 is, much less that they should be on the net researching how to get it installed.

      Windows update will take care of that for the vast majority of them. For the ones that it breaks on and for which MS doesn't fix, then how is it any different than any other time a home user's windows update got messed up for any reason?

      I mean, odds are when you find a home users PC with XP SP1 or SP2 still on it because windows update failed or was turned off or whatever, you'll also find they haven't done any security updates on it since then either.

    16. Re:Jeez by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I had the update waiting in the list of optional updates (listed as "important") but it was not automatically installed for me.

    17. Re:Jeez by vux984 · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure Microsoft can retag them as 'automatic'; and just hasn't done so. I'm pretty sure I've seen some of this happen previously with other updates. New IE versions start out as optional, and then get moved to automatic. IIRC.

      They can even 2-stage it, similar to how the genuine advantage stuff works -- where stage one is mandatory and automatically run, but in turn it could suggest the 8.1 update, and make it as simple as hitting 'next' to initiate it.

  6. Nope, not okay for either by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 2

    You should be able to upgrade/downgrade/sidegrade to any version that suits your needs

    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
    1. Re:Nope, not okay for either by viperidaenz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      and you should accept that down-grading will mean you are vulnerable to any issues later versions have fixed.

    2. Re:Nope, not okay for either by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      And when you write your own OS, feel free to support that model. Nobody is stopping you.

    3. Re:Nope, not okay for either by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      And now we know why cars that have a metal value of a few bucks cost thousands, while operating systems can still be found in the three digit range. Of course they can be engineered to the same level of stability and security as cars, but first of all, nobody will pay 10,000 for an OS unless he is a government and doesn't give a shit about money, and second you wouldn't get it sold since your competitor came out with his OS that looks and feels about the same and is a shoddy piece of junk that kinda-sorta runs 3 years ago because you spent those 3 years testing your OS, but his only costs 99 bucks.

      The market is at a race to the bottom. Stability? Security? Yeah, they might sell in the car industry where your very life depends on your car's ability to protect you in case of a crash. But a computer crash only means that you're cursing yourself for not saving in time and cursing its maker for delivering such a crappy product, both of which are forgotten 5 minutes later.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Nope, not okay for either by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      There are too many versions and variants of the Microsoft operating system.

      I think that's the explanation why they see failures in the patches, they can't keep track of all permutations that exists.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    5. Re:Nope, not okay for either by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      Windows Server 2012 Datacenter, which is the server version of Windows 8.1 costs $6,155 basic so what's the excuse now? Your argument also falls down because Linux costs nothing and there has been no mass migration to that.

    6. Re:Nope, not okay for either by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      I'm sure a lot of people would love to do that, but Apples policy is to go out of their way to prevent people from loading their own choice of operating system on an idevice.

    7. Re:Nope, not okay for either by N1AK · · Score: 1

      Because we, users in general, would rather have some bugs, than have to wait for years for features to be included. When I buy a car I want stability and safety more than I want cutting edge features. When I buy a laptop I expect it to include the latest USB/WIFI/BT specs, modern drivers, new software etc.

    8. Re:Nope, not okay for either by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      And now we know why cars that have a metal value of a few bucks cost thousands,

      First, the metal value of a car is actually in the hundreds. You need to compare at least the sheet metal and forged stock, not just the ingots. Second, that metal has been made into stuff. You need to also account for the cost of things like fasteners. Electronics aside, many cars have a significant cost of production. Some of the fanciest cars that cost millions of dollars aren't even profitable, they're just made to maintain cachet.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:Nope, not okay for either by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      What's your point? That he's not entitled to criticise Apple for not offering the option- whether you agree with that criticism or not- simply because he's free to write his own and/or because Apple put a lot of effort in to theirs and have the right to offer what options they want?

      Of course they do, and of course he has the right to criticise that behaviour.

      This is just a variant of the stupid, flawed argument that repeatedly comes up on the supposedly intelligent Slashdot where someone rebuts a criticism of a product with something like "you're free not to buy it", as if that freedom somehow negated anyone else's moral entitlement to criticise that product or company, whether or not they bought it.

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    10. Re:Nope, not okay for either by enigmatic · · Score: 1

      So windows 2012 server doesnt do anything for you huh?

    11. Re:Nope, not okay for either by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      Because it would be astronomically expensive to vet the logic of today's applications? Unless the market is willing to pay millions of dollars for an OS license, it's not happening. For critical infrastructure, it's better to pay a few programmers to write specialized code that does not include needless complexity than it is to pay microsoft to vet their entire software ecosystem... Better yet, see if there's a way to eliminate the need for a computer altogether. Today's cars are an example of needless featuritis and complexity that have proven inferior in usability, servicing, and reliability compared with simpler designs.

    12. Re:Nope, not okay for either by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      It's not just IT, it's also the users. They know office, not openoffice. They know windows, not Gnome. At the end of the day, the users are the ones making the company money. Guess which god IT must serve..

    13. Re:Nope, not okay for either by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      And your software quite possibly won't work anymore.

      ...oh right, this is OS X we're talking about. They don't believe in 3rd party software, do they?

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    14. Re:Nope, not okay for either by FaxeTheCat · · Score: 2

      Two errors her:

      WIndows 2012 R2 Standard is the server version of Windows 8.1. Windows Server 2012 is the server version of Windows 8.

      Windows 2012 (and 2012 R2) Datacenter is not a version, it is a licensing option for virtual environments. The Standard version contains all functionality. The price for the Standard version is $882 (list - two physical CPUs).

    15. Re:Nope, not okay for either by geekoid · · Score: 1

      There are millions of OS. To engineer and test them properly probably wouldn't move the price much at all

      Also, designing to it matures instead of ages save money over the long run.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    16. Re:Nope, not okay for either by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Then why can I easily load windows on a Mac running OSX?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    17. Re:Nope, not okay for either by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      Because i specifically said idevice referring to iPhone, iPad and iPod.

    18. Re:Nope, not okay for either by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      Then build your own device as well. Again, nobody stopping you. Why do you feel so entitled to demand that a company cater to your every whim. Buy enough of their product and they will be happy to do so.

    19. Re:Nope, not okay for either by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      I didn't take it as simple criticism because their is a general sentiment around here that companies should publish everything and cater to every single whim of every single person on the planet regardless of whether doing so allows the company to actually do what companies are supposed to do (turn a profit of some sort). This happens to the point of people suggesting that it is or should be illegal to not support a version of software from date of first release until the universe ceases to exist.

      My point was suggesting that Mateo_LeFou was already free to form a company and offer that service to his users.

      And yes, I do find that far more productive than demanding that others do so. Mainly because I believe that he was asking for something impossible and he would find that out for himself by going through the exercise.

    20. Re:Nope, not okay for either by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      One typo and one error in semantics oh noes. Datacenter still costs what it costs and you won't be able to legally use it unless you pay that money.

    21. Re:Nope, not okay for either by FaxeTheCat · · Score: 1

      Our finance people would definitely point out that a difference between $882 and $6155 is quite significant unless you really need the virtualization rights.

  7. Wow what idiots....can you make it more confusing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They make things so confusing, whoever makes these decisions are the ones that should be fired from Microsoft! Windows 8.1 and Windows 8.1 Update 1. Just name the damn thing 8.2 or Service Pack 1 that everyone is familiar with. Then to top it off Windows 8.1 isn't getting any more updates!!!

    Then you have a pro version, this version and that version!

    Sorry but life is much more simpler in the Mac world! 10.9.0.....10.9.1....10.9.2.......etc. Then you have Delta Updates that are the point releases and Combo updates that will update you from the 10.9.0 to the latest version say 10.9.9 in one download and one install. Then you don't have 200 updates to download and install.

    I think the Microsoft way is superior as you can install/uninstall individual updates incase of problems, but its too complicated!

  8. running 8.1 update 1 from wsus by Espectr0 · · Score: 4, Informative

    if you have wsus without ssl, it works fine after importing the update from the catalog.

    i don't see the need of ssl on an internal small server, anyway even with ssl you can enable tls 1.2 manually and it will work.

    this article is also misleading, since the update itself is a regular update and not labeled "update 1" or even a service pack, but on every windows version out there there are updates that depend on other updates, especially service packs, so nothing new here.

    1. Re:running 8.1 update 1 from wsus by Loki_1929 · · Score: 2

      i don't see the need of ssl on an internal small server

      The 1980s called and would like their "my firewall stops ALLLL the hackerz!" approach to security back.

      On the server providing updates to all your Windows systems? Thank goodness you have no authority over my network. All the guys on my team get regular reminders about the importance of defense in depth.

      --
      -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
    2. Re:running 8.1 update 1 from wsus by Rick+in+China · · Score: 1

      i don't see the need of ssl on an internal small server

      The 1980s called and would like their "my firewall stops ALLLL the hackerz!" approach to security back.

      On the server providing updates to all your Windows systems? Thank goodness you have no authority over my network. All the guys on my team get regular reminders about the importance of defense in depth.

      The early 2000s called and would like their "SSL secures your web traffic! Really!" approach to security back.

    3. Re:running 8.1 update 1 from wsus by sexconker · · Score: 1

      If someone is inside your firewall and signing malicious versions of updates with forged MS certs and pushing them through your servers then SSL isn't going to do shit.

      The only reason to SSL your WSUS shit is if you want to stop Jim from seeing that Pam's machine needs the latest definition updates for System Center Endpoint Protection 2012 (which is listed in the catalog as Forefront 2010...).

    4. Re:running 8.1 update 1 from wsus by Loki_1929 · · Score: 1

      Of course SSL isn't anywhere close to bulletproof. Just like a firewall isn't bulletproof. Anti-malware/anti-rootkit applications aren't bulletproof. NIDS/IPS and HIDS aren't bulletproof. All those things together, however, raises the bar for an attacker to successfully locate and exploit a vulnerability and remain undetected. The less of those kinds of things you have in place (and appropriately configured/monitored/alarming/etc), the lower that bar.

      My response said nothing of SSL being a magic cure-all. It was a response to the idea that security behind the firewall is unnecessary because firewall.

      --
      -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
    5. Re:running 8.1 update 1 from wsus by Loki_1929 · · Score: 1

      Can't tell you how many times I've received the "well if they got this far, it's game over anyway" response, and it's been bullshit every single time. SSL isn't a magic cure-all; it's one of many, many different layers, each of which raise the bar of complexity and difficulty of successful, undetected penetration. Is SSL a super powerful security layer? No, but why take away something that's trivial for you to set up and maintain and which creates additional work for an attacker?

      This idea that we should simply give up at some point is absurd. It's the reason you find incidents like the Target breach happen so much (though typically not with that level of impact). It's because beyond a certain point, everyone just throws their hands up and assumes that if somebody got that far, they won. Meanwhile, 20 other countermeasures which would cost nearly nothing to implement are left by the wayside and any one of them just might have been the straw that broke the attackers' back. This mentality needs to stop if we're ever to make progress preventing attacks and limiting the damage done.

      --
      -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
    6. Re:running 8.1 update 1 from wsus by sexconker · · Score: 1

      If they have admin privileges on a box that all your workstations look to and trust for updates and can forge MS's cert, then it is in fact game fucking over regardless of SSL because they don't need to look at the traffic.

      If they can MITM your network and inject traffic and can forge MS's cert, then it is in fact game fucking over regardless of SSL because with WSUS SSL only protects the update metadata.

      You can scream "defense in depth" all you want, but you're talking about building a moat around your battleship.

    7. Re:running 8.1 update 1 from wsus by Espectr0 · · Score: 1

      we have specialized hardware as our firewall
      we have an antivirus on all machines
      we are policies to restrict software to only allow sanctioned bits.
      we have sensible subnetting in place

      I admin 600 client machines and the only issue in over 9 years was an IIS security issue.

      I am not saying we are 100% secure, but really, if you think about it, SSL isn't going to do anything for us.

    8. Re:running 8.1 update 1 from wsus by Rick+in+China · · Score: 1

      I think we can agree both comments were equally snarky :D The OP, also, never implied that a firewall is _the only_ security measure one needs in all cases. Situationally speaking, any hypothetical shouldn't necessarily be grouped into an immediate straw man counter without expecting an equally asshat response, thus, I provided!

  9. It's spelled out isn't it? 24 months support. by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

    Microsoft only support the current service pack level and all those less than 24 months old for Windows Client and Server.
    That's the agreement they've given to their customers.
    They will drop support for 8.1 in 24 months time.

    http://support.microsoft.com/l... .... wait a minute. They should at least update their support policy before cutting support.

    1. Re:It's spelled out isn't it? 24 months support. by dafiremaster · · Score: 1

      It's not labeled a service pack though. Whats it matter anyways? 8.x is a total joke. Microsoft is either going to fix it with this update and everyone will be happy or nothing will change.

    2. Re:It's spelled out isn't it? 24 months support. by rafjaimes · · Score: 1

      I find it hilarious that every update to 8.0 is just reversing the big mistake of 8/metro more and more. After a couple of updates we'll probably have windows 7 again with 8 boot and explorer/shell enhancements, what it should have been in the first place.

    3. Re:It's spelled out isn't it? 24 months support. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Just interface wise, everything under the hood is better.
      I know someone that was t the meeting to decide whether or not to only allow metro. There were over 100 people in it. It was, apparently, a prime example of how a room full of smart people can talk themselves into a bad decision.

      That said, I have found metro to be far easier and faster to use then the win 7 interface. A lot faster.
      The people that seem to have the hardest time our people that can't break there think out of the antiquated directory/file way of thinking.
      Obviously small data size, and an anecdote. So take it for what it's worth(nothing:)

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  10. Upgrade, don't update. by edibobb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why not upgrade from Windows 8.1 to Windows 7?

    1. Re:Upgrade, don't update. by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Since there's nothing inherently wrong with Windows 8.1 besides the awful UI, I can't figure why you'd downgrade to Windows 7. Or are you telling me that you can't install another UI and go on your way? I now await people to say that's it's worse than vista, when it's not. Especially when it's main negative feature is the UI.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    2. Re:Upgrade, don't update. by gweilo8888 · · Score: 1

      Speak for yourself. I run both Windows 8 and Windows 7 machines, and my Windows 7 machines are demonstrably more stable and less buggy than my Windows 8 one. (Note: I say one because I've had such a piss-poor experience with Windows 8, which rapidly degrades in performance to the point of near-unusability. And even straight out of the box with a fresh install, it likes to do things such as take multiple *minutes* before task manager appears on a core i5 machine with 8GB of RAM and 50% CPU utilization or less. There's no way I'm buying another machine with Windows 8, let alone installing it on one. If I could downgrade to Win7 without needing to pay for an OS when I already paid for Win8, I'd do it in a heartbeat. And no, Linux is not an option for people who need to use real software.)

      Windows 8 is a total dog, and has been from the day it shipped, even before one takes into account the absolutely godawful UI.

    3. Re:Upgrade, don't update. by clarkn0va · · Score: 1

      Since there's nothing inherently wrong with Windows 8.1 besides the awful UI

      Perhaps you didn't read the summary.

      --
      I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
    4. Re:Upgrade, don't update. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Since there's nothing inherently wrong with Windows 8.1 besides the awful UI...

      But there is. They broke the integrity of the core packaging system by marrying it so deeply to .NET that there are multiple people out there who have to reinstall the OS from scratch because the update broke the package registry irreversibly.

    5. Re:Upgrade, don't update. by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I can't figure why you'd downgrade to Windows 7

      To get the same sort of behaviour that users have seen since before Win3.11. As seen with online purchases at HP etc there are certainly people prepared to pay extra for that.

    6. Re:Upgrade, don't update. by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      Speak for yourself. I run both Windows 8 and Windows 7 machines, and my Windows 7 machines are demonstrably more stable and less buggy than my Windows 8 one.

      So do I. I actually haven't run across an OS quite as stable as this since Win2k, probably my favorite version of windows. My follow up would be XPx64. If it's taking *that* long on a fresh install, you've got something else going on wrong on your system, either ram timings, spread spectrum, or something esoterically weird going on. I've seen exactly that type of issue before in Win7 and XP, and each case it was something different anything between windows itself trying to remotely grab a driver and getting "hung" on trying to install/update a NIC driver. Or something else.

      Anecdotes are just those.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    7. Re:Upgrade, don't update. by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      But there is. They broke the integrity of the core packaging system by marrying it so deeply to .NET that there are multiple people out there who have to reinstall the OS from scratch because the update broke the package registry irreversibly.

      Funny, I didn't hear people bitching and moaning over that when they did the same thing with .net 3.5 in windows 7....which did exactly the same thing.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    8. Re:Upgrade, don't update. by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you didn't read the summary.

      Assuming, magically making an ass out of yourself.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    9. Re:Upgrade, don't update. by grep+-v+'.*'+* · · Score: 1

      Why not upgrade from Windows 8.1 to Windows 7?

      If I'm going to get stuck with an unsupported copy of Windows today, it's SURE as hell not going to be Windows 8.1 -- it's going to be Windows XP instead!

      Think Different! .... no, wait...

      --
      If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
    10. Re:Upgrade, don't update. by Overzeetop · · Score: 2

      If it's taking *that* long on a fresh install, you've got something else going on wrong on your system, either ram timings, spread spectrum, or something esoterically weird going on.

      It sounds like a bad driver or hardware enumeration. But, yes, if windows takes more than a few seconds to get to a login on a SSD based machine (so, what 30-40 seconds on a spinner?) then it's a hardware problem. W8, once I restored the start menu, is no less stable or responsive than my W7 machine. Most of my complaints are over install of OEM versions of the OS that aren't auto-authorized by the bios (most of my machines are Dell, and the Dell OEM OS just installs; no games, no keys, no mess).

      FWIW, my favorite version was NT 3.51, and I go back to Win 1.02 days (on windows, at least); I still even have the install disks - though no 8086 or 720k floppy drive to read them.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    11. Re:Upgrade, don't update. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Since there's nothing inherently wrong with Windows 8.1 besides the awful UI, I

      Did you just really say there's nothing inherently wrong with an OS other than it's single most visible user facing component?

    12. Re:Upgrade, don't update. by SlashdotWanker · · Score: 1

      Speak for yourself. I run both Windows 8 and Windows 7 machines, and my Windows 7 machines are demonstrably more stable and less buggy than my Windows 8 one. (Note: I say one because I've had such a piss-poor experience with Windows 8, which rapidly degrades in performance to the point of near-unusability. And even straight out of the box with a fresh install, it likes to do things such as take multiple *minutes* before task manager appears on a core i5 machine with 8GB of RAM and 50% CPU utilization or less. There's no way I'm buying another machine with Windows 8, let alone installing it on one. If I could downgrade to Win7 without needing to pay for an OS when I already paid for Win8, I'd do it in a heartbeat. And no, Linux is not an option for people who need to use real software.) Windows 8 is a total dog, and has been from the day it shipped, even before one takes into account the absolutely godawful UI.

      Something is horribly wrong with your install. You either A) have a hardware fault somewhere on the workstation, B) have installed some kind of horrifically incompatible driver/software (windows XP-era, is that you?) or C) have managed to get a root kit/malware/adware/virus/trojan on your workstation. I have a ton of windows 8 machines in my house, everything from a surface pro to a hand built desktop to a gaming laptop and they are fast and have no visible glitches. all of my roommates are on 8 as well with no issues.

    13. Re:Upgrade, don't update. by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Since there's nothing inherently wrong with Windows 8.1 besides the awful UI

      That's like saying "there's nothing wrong with this sports car besides somebody smearing shit all over it." 90% of Windows' value is the UI. (The other 10% is being trapped on the platform.)

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    14. Re:Upgrade, don't update. by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      wrong;
      1. mouse/desktop sampling rates are nearly impossible to get over 60hz without tons of shitty hacking, and it still results in inferior response compared with previous editions. Microsoft supposedly patched this, but it's still not working right.
      2. legacy graphics programs are rendered to the dwm, which butchers their output. At least with win 7, aero can be switched off, and doesn't appear to have this problem. The dwm is also the main factor in the mouse sample rate issues.
      3. metro can be sorta hacked away with classicshell, but really, it's a nuisance that still rears its ugly head more often than I'd like. It belongs on tablets, not desktops.
      4. the desktop file explorer continues its march into uselessness.
      5. The fact the system 'requires' NX support is bullshit. by all means, have it as a recommended option, but requiring it breaks applications that have self modifying code.
      6. The useless outlook.com integration. Why should I have to jump through hoops to create a local account? I don't WANT to store my data on some shitty remote server.

    15. Re:Upgrade, don't update. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I hepl run a server test group with 100 PC. Win 7 and win 8 machines. Performance wise win 8 is clearly better, stability wise we have only seen issues with 7.

      " it likes to do things such as take multiple *minutes* before task manager appears on a core i5 machine with 8GB of RAM and 50% CPU utilization or less."
      something is wrong with your machine. OR I build machines that are magic and just work faster then yours with the same basic specs.

      " Linux is not an option for people who need to use real software."
      yeah, all those server running linux aren't running real software.

      You are clearly a whiner and hater and probably just making stuff up to make your self feel important.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    16. Re:Upgrade, don't update. by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      There are issues with Windows 8 corrupting SSD's with a few volume management bugs.

      IE 11 with 8.1 has many quirks like IE always does and breaks on many sites.

      Windows 7 is well QA'd and tested on the hardware I am running and all the apps so it is not always best to rush into something. Only enthusiasts bothered to leave XP until Windows 7 SP1 for this reason which is why XP usage stayed so high for so long.

      If it works don't fix it.

  11. cli by voltorb · · Score: 1

    Most Debian-based distro users would rather use the UI though.

  12. Re:Wow what idiots....can you make it more confusi by rafjaimes · · Score: 1

    The latest generation of Microsoft products goes against all reasoning with naming convention. I agree, why isn't this called Windows 8.1 SP1? Or probably should have been 8.0 SP2 (8.1 should have probably been 8.0 SP1) Why is it called Xbox One? Why not Xbox 3? I know it's a different department but they need to stop trying to be different and creative with their naming scheme and just make god damn sense.

  13. WAIT! it's April 15th, not 1st! by chromaexcursion · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I thought this was a joke.
    MS is just so sad
    it hurts

  14. Re:Wow what idiots....can you make it more confusi by Megane · · Score: 1

    Life is also simpler in the Mac world because there isn't a triple .NET update every couple of weeks. And the .NET updaters seem to take a lot more time than regular patches. How badly do you have to fuck up a language runtime library to make it need monthly updates? And I'm not talking about just adding new features to the latest one, like with Java. This is .NET 1.x 2.x and 4.x all getting constantly patched.

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  15. So? by Sable+Drakon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How is this any different than MS stating in the past that updates required a certain Service Pack in order to be installed. It's worded very poorly, since everyone is going to assume the worst when you say 'Windows 8.1'. Mainly because they're not calling them service packs anymore or incrementing the updates. Windows 8.1 Update 1 would make more sense to people if they simply called it Windows 8.2.

    --
    The Amarri pray for god, the Caldari pray for profit. the Gallente pray for peace, but the Minmatar pray their ships hol
    1. Re:So? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Because the 8.1 update 1 is a very small change, it's too small to give it a ".2", and it's definitely not a service pack either. What it adds are mostly tweaks. (allow metro apps to appear on the task bar, give metro apps an auto-hiding title bar, add search/power buttons to metro screen, right click on metro icons to get a context menu, detect computer type when deciding to boot to desktop versus metro by default)

  16. Why not go back to the old SP system and stop this by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why not go back to the old SP system and stop this mess of a new update system where some stuff is in the windows store and others is in the windows update system.

    As for this not working for all does it have any thing to do with 8.0 to 8.1 being more like a full os upgrade then an SP? and why did make the 8.1 iso not take Windows 8 product keys?

    MS needs to go back to how it used to be with XP, vista, 7. Where it's not lot's of separate updates it is rolled up on to big install that has it all or least offer that as a choice not only for people who say have 2-4+ pc's and don't want to have re download the same updates on each pc but in some cases that combo updates work better.

  17. what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Uh, where did you get your MSc again...? Reinstall to fix..?

    apt-get may leave you with a broken (but chrooteable and fixable) system on Debian only if you have Unstable/Experimental repos enabled, and I hear updates on stables/testings are pretty seamless on Ubuntu/Mint as well.

  18. MS Message: I know I know... we... by Rick+in+China · · Score: 1

    We f*xked it up this time, but make sure to stay tuned, we will hit a homerun with Windows 9! Be sure to buy that as soon as possible, it'll fix all your Windows 8.x.update.woes! We promise. Witnessing the slow internal bleeding death of a behemoth, folks.

  19. Re:Wow what idiots....can you make it more confusi by kwbauer · · Score: 1

    slow down there Sheldon!

  20. The new guy won't be pleased.... by Warphammer · · Score: 1

    As bad as this situation is for any user, this REALLY hoses up corporate. First you're saying that for critical patches you need to install a major update, which NOBODY in that world likes to do, might as well ask them to install a new version of the OS entirely. And THEN, 'oops it's actually broken....' with no idea of how it will be fixed. Another Win8 misstep for corporate they really can't afford.

    1. Re:The new guy won't be pleased.... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      It looks like Microsoft made an update, and the update was so terribly bad that they EOL'd the product.

      The product was the latest version of Windows.

  21. Re:Wow what idiots....can you make it more confusi by kwbauer · · Score: 1

    Seriously. I spend most days programming against .Net and haven't noticed all of these .Net updates you are complaining about.

  22. WTF? by bagman1673 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Windows 8.0 was installed on this machine, and it sucked immensely. Then a couple of months ago I got an upgrade to Windows 8.1 courtesy of Windows update, and it hardly sucked at all. Then, a couple of days ago I got my old Windows 8.1 upgraded to new Windows 8.1, and I know it is different because now apps have the big red "X" back in the right hand corner of the window and you can terminate them while they are running. Awesome! At this rate Windows 8.1 will turn into Windows XP around Labor Day. Maybe the boys will rediscover POP3 email at some point.

  23. Oh yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Having things break daily is so much better than having them break every year or so.

    I've used linux a lot. Sometimes everything goes smoothly, sometimes not. The thing is, if everything goes well it goes really really well. Well enough to sell linux on the spot to anyone watching. If, on the other hand, something breaks, it usually mean a complete reinstall, or several hours of finding out what broke, and how to fix it so it stays fixed. Now you have a GUI, now you don't. Yes, that program did work before the upgrade, now it doesn't. Does not give you any errors either, just doesn't run. It's a riddle, have fun!

    1. Re:Oh yeah by HJED · · Score: 1

      If you use a stable distro, I've only ever had this happen on release updates (with nvidia drives, or ubuntu not disabling hibernate before upgrading usually being the cause). On release upgrades however I always schedule a few days downtime to fix the inevitable inability to boot.

      --
      null
  24. Update worked! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    After four tries, the update finally worked. What does it do? I now have an App Store icon in the task bar. Only took some 880 Mbytes to do that.

    1. Re:Update worked! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I updated a couple Server 2012 R2 instances. And yes, those get the App Store links as well after the update. Why you would ever use the App Store on Server 2012 R2 is a mystery, but it's there.

  25. u wot m8? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Hmmm?

    I get an nice window saying there are updates available.
    Then I click "Yes" on the button for updates and "No" if i want to do this at an later time.

    Oh - and I do not have to update-reboot-next-update-reboot like Windows 95 (or wait endlessly while the 2637352-th update of .net does it lengthly update - and reboot again after that).

    Maybe time for you to update to a modern version of Windows?

    -A windows user

    1. Re:u wot m8? by Anonymous+Cowled · · Score: 1

      Just another mindless windows sheep.

      Just another mindless linux sheep.

      Just another pair of ridiculous fanboys.

  26. Broke for me... by Retron · · Score: 5, Informative

    I installed the update at work - it worked. I installed the update on my old PC - it worked. Tried to install it on my current PC - failed, after taking something like 20 minutes. It then took another half-hour to revert the changes. (On those machines where it worked, it took only 5 minutes or so to install).

    Digging around online showed that fiddling around on the command line with dism might help. The online image is corrupted but it's repairable... that is, until you try and use /restorehealth, at which point it moans that there are no sources. Of course there aren't, it was upgraded to 8.1 from 8.0 via the online store.

    So, after faffing around and grabbing an install.wim from an old 8.1 iso I had saved at work (not the 8.1 update 1 iso currently on the MS website) I find that dism won't use the image, even after mounting it.

    I couldn't then even attempt to reinstall the update, as it failed immediately. Dism was called upon again to remove the update package, then at least it would let me try again... only to fail. Another 45 minutes wasted.

    It looks as though the only way to "fix" it is to nuke Windows entirely, then go through the painful 8.0 > 8.1 > 8.1 with Media Center route. Except, of course, to get Media Center reinstalled you have to buy it again - there's no option I can see to re-enter your Meda Center key again because, guess what, when you upgrade to Media Center your Windows product key is changed. And a Windows 8.1 with Media Center key isn't accepted by the 8.1 iso (or at least wasn't when I tried earlier)...

    Looks like a long and boring Easter weekend coming up.

    On the other hand, I might just reinstall Windows 7 instead.

    1. RE: Broke for me... by IceFreak2000 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just a heads up; I recently rebuilt my home development machine using Windows 8.1, and the Media Center key that I had registered with Windows 8.0 worked without a hitch.

      --
      Life is like a sewer; what you get out of it depends on what you put into it...
    2. Re:Broke for me... by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      Use an ei.cfg to bypass the product key entry OR seek out the "generic install keys". It'll let you get Windows 8.1 installed (if you can, grab the ISOs with Update 1 already integrated), afterwards you can change the key to your Media Center key using slmgr and activate Windows. Still don't know why MS didn't bother to make Windows 8 keys universal with 8.1 images, its really annoying.

  27. Re:8.1 update 1? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    'cause then people wouldn't upgrade on principle, knowing that every other version number of an MS OS is crap.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  28. Re:8.1 update 1? by SeaFox · · Score: 1

    Because that would make too much sense.

  29. Magic upgrade sequence solved! by BlazingATrail · · Score: 5, Funny

    You can upgrade by installing Windows Me, then Vista Ultimate, then enable start menu, disable start menu, 8.0 SP1, Windows ME again but holding ALT-F5 until BSOD appears, then quickly insert the 3.5 floppy with 8.1 patch on it (if you didn't keep a floppy drive.. oh you're so screwed!).

  30. Bullet, meet foot by Camael · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A timely reminder why users should stick with a stable, proven OS such as Win7 (and to a lesser extent, WinXP).

    Less fancy unnecessary features like Metro also means less chances for cock-ups to happen.

    If MS' intention is to migrate users of older OSes to Win8.1, it is not doing itself any favors here.

    1. Re:Bullet, meet foot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I recently bought a Windows 7 for my old computer along with an SSD (which alone makes a massive difference). That should tide me over until Windows 9. Not going to bother with any Windows 8 version. I may not be a huge gamer, but until Linux is the default platform for developers, I do need a Windows somewhere.

    2. Re:Bullet, meet foot by davester666 · · Score: 1

      yeah, the purpose of this is only for microsoft to get people to actually sign up for their app store, and hopefully to get credit card information at the same time, so they can turn around and use those numbers to try to get developers to create apps for their app store.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    3. Re:Bullet, meet foot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      OSX9? Remember: X goes to 11!

    4. Re:Bullet, meet foot by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A timely reminder why users should stick with a stable, proven OS such as Win7 (and to a lesser extent, WinXP).

      ???

      A lot of their Windows XP stuff requires SP3. Is this any different?

      --
      No sig today...
    5. Re:Bullet, meet foot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A lot of their Windows XP stuff requires SP3. Is this any different?

      Yes. Windows XP SP3 has been around for a while.

      The large user base shouldn't be early adopters. Untested technology will have issues, let those who are equipped to handle them deal with it.
      Pushing out Update 1 like that is just unprofessional.

    6. Re:Bullet, meet foot by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Only because it checks for it. you can install a lot of the MS updates and add ons without SP3 if you break open their installers and get at the delicious gooey insides.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    7. Re:Bullet, meet foot by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or linux.

    8. Re:Bullet, meet foot by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Actually Windows 7 RTM was dropped last year.

      Only sp 1 is supported. Bad if you have apps that check for version

    9. Re:Bullet, meet foot by DrXym · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Windows 8.x is stable and in many regards is better than Windows 7. It's just that stupid metro front end which scuppers the experience and consequently people hate on it.

      8.1 and the SR1 makes it just about tolerable but the most glaring omission is still the lack of a start menu. They could and should have a mini-metro popup that offers functionality analogous to the old start menu. Rumours suggest that one is being worked on but its not in this release.

    10. Re:Bullet, meet foot by afidel · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's not a rumor, they showed a start menu + live tiles demo at BUILD this year.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    11. Re:Bullet, meet foot by budgenator · · Score: 1

      When windows 95 upgrade came out and I migrated from windows 3.1, all went well because file-manager was still there from win3.1, then I got my first machine with win95 only and it took me two days to figure out what the start menu was.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    12. Re:Bullet, meet foot by Sipper · · Score: 2

      Or linux.

      I wish that were so... unfortunately Windows still has the Desktop userbase majority by a wide margin, and that doesn't seem to be changing despite Microsoft's many steps towards making computer owners' lives more difficult. "Windows Genuine Advantage" that limits your ability to change hardware in a computer running Windows, licensing confusion concerning running Windows in a Virtual Machine, version confusion ("home", "professional", "enterprise", "ultimate", etc), UI confusion with Metro and the Office "banner"... and so on.

      I wish Linux were "the answer" to this, but I've been running it on the Desktop since 1998 and I know it's not. A user trying to switch first has to go through a painful process of figuring out what programs they can use to do their daily tasks -- because they're not going to be running Internet Explorer or Outlook anymore, and the new programs have a different menu layout and (for the most part) different shortcut keys. If you've been working with a Linux desktop you've probably forgotten just how painful this transition was -- and it's not trivial. For people that are "stuck in their ways" and get anxious when they feel lost, this in itself is sometimes an insurmountable challenge.

      Also the Linux ecosystem is very different, mostly relying on volunteer efforts with a few paid developers on the side. Being that this ecosystem represents less than 5% of the market, it's not an ecosystem that would be able to cope with the other 95%+ of the market suddenly needing support. And because it's mostly volunteers that help, users first need to figure out where to report issues (which isn't always easy), then there are issues concerning user demads vs helper pushback, sometimes leading to rudeness and communication breakdown, occasional elitism or ignoring problems, etc. It's "a different world" than Windows users are used to in that respect too.

      And when you say "Or Linux", if the users given that advice knew to they'd ask "which one?" (i.e. which distribution?) Yeah... that problem too. Which window manager / desktop environment? That too. Etc.

    13. Re:Bullet, meet foot by flink · · Score: 1

      The graphics drivers for OSX are crap, at least for ATI. I get about double the framerate for the same game if I boot into Windows using the vendor's drivers vs running it in OSX where I'm stuck with Apple's.

    14. Re:Bullet, meet foot by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that if Apple had continued their previous versioning scheme, we'd be on OS 19 (or OS XIX) by now. The 'X' actually stands for 10, not 'Xtreme' or something.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    15. Re:Bullet, meet foot by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Or vagina.

      FTFY.

      Come on guys...we haven't forgotten that already, have we? :)

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    16. Re:Bullet, meet foot by phorm · · Score: 1

      Windows 8.x is stable and in many regards is better than Windows 7
      I call bullshit on this. Faster, potentially yes (on some newer hardware). More stable... tell that to the system I reinstalled the OS on *REPEATEDLY* over the course of 10 days trying to get the thing to *not* get stuck in a mysterious stuck-on-boot-logo loop. Win7 worked fine, win8.1 had some hate on for software/hardware I've commonly use across other OS's without issue

    17. Re:Bullet, meet foot by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      Windows 8.x is ... in many regards is better than Windows 7.

      How so?

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    18. Re:Bullet, meet foot by ynp7 · · Score: 1

      I'll see your anecdote and raise it by my anecdote that Windows 8 runs fucking great on my machine. It's exactly like Windows 7, only better _because_ of improvements like removing the useless start button & replacing the start menu with a superior alternative. Of course they've fucked that up with 8.1, by back pedaling instead of doing the education that they should have in the first place, but it's my anecdote so I'll cherry pick whichever parts I want.

    19. Re:Bullet, meet foot by ppanon · · Score: 1

      It's Microsoft trying to get a 30% cut of every software purchase for the Windows 8.1 platform. Now I'll grant you that Apple and Google do the same thing on their mobile platforms, but they didn't have established sales ecosystems to trample on. It's questionable what service they provide to users and developers for that 30% cut.

      Anyways Microsoft tax now has a new meaning (although you're free to also talk about Apple tax and Google tax too). The interesting thing is that there are competing App Stores such as Amazon and Samsung for the Android platform but they all take the same cut - 30%. That vaguely smells like oligopolistic collusion to me.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    20. Re:Bullet, meet foot by DrXym · · Score: 1

      Faster boot times for one thing. Better task manager. Better file move & copy. Lots of little improvements all over the shop.

    21. Re:Bullet, meet foot by davester666 · · Score: 1

      yes and no. Sure everybody is basically following Apple's lead with charging 30% or thereabouts. But when Apple introduced it originally for the iOS App Store, the market was worse for both customers and developers because what 'app stores' there were generally took more than 50% commision [and WAY worse if you went through a carrier], and you had to go through a bunch of crazy steps to actually get the app. it completely reset the 'mobile app' industry.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    22. Re:Bullet, meet foot by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      A timely reminder why users should stick with a stable, proven OS such as Win7...

      Interesting spin on it. The rest of the world seems to perceive it as a timely reminder that they should be seeking any way they can to escape Microsoft's tentacles as soon as possible.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    23. Re:Bullet, meet foot by Inominate · · Score: 1

      SP3 works. Windows 8.1 Update has problems preventing many people from updating which MS is not addressing.

    24. Re:Bullet, meet foot by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Sorry for the type. Actually it goes to 10.

    25. Re:Bullet, meet foot by gonnagetya · · Score: 1

      You're thinking of Unity. Which is still a piece of shit that a failing Linux company thinks will keep them alive.

      In my experience the only Linux distro that I've been entirely satisfied with... does not exist. The best I've had is Linux Mint with the MATE desktop, with various other components bolted onto it instead of being out of the box (i.e. grabbing Compiz and doing a lot of shit to get it to work with MATE, installing Synapse to provide a powerful Windows 7/8-search-like tool to launch and find things, but much faster than the same feature in Unity and with more functionality, and etc). All distros have disappointed me more than even Windows 7 out of the box.

      Having said that, I always make sure to keep my Linux skills fresh and work and use as much free/open source tools as possible, for reasons of being able to make the transition if I feel things become good enough.

    26. Re:Bullet, meet foot by bbsalem · · Score: 1

      This removes one of the arguments for Windows, that even though new versions create problems, M$ would try to patch them fairly quickly and make the upgrade step fairly painless. Now, they aren't even trying to do that, and the ever present security holes are still there. So can M$ be long for this world. It may be that suddenly M$ is failing as a company and may capitulate to the dominance of open source alternatives, even though that exposes users to more complexity?

      In spite of the piss war that goes on over updating commands, and the different approaches in Linux, the update complexity is no worse than it would be with any multiple sourced set of updates and it is possible to hide most of the complexity behind a simple GUI interface, just as it isn't necessary to expose users to command line complexity. How many Mac user's have ever opened Terminal? You and I who know the shell and know the command line want the complexity because it gives us fine control and especially when we encounter a problem we can hope to troubleshoot and fix it ourselves. It took until Windows Vista to bring its users anywhere near to that level of information to be able to troubleshoot their problems with any comparable transparency as grepping through a UNIX log file and issuing commands from the shell proactively as every UNIX sysadmin has been able to do for decades. So, the future is just different. It may be that if M$ survives, which it might not, that OSs end up looking more like Linux and that users will have to develop a different set of habits. How can that be any worse than using Android or OS X or other UNIX derived OS?

    27. Re:Bullet, meet foot by bbsalem · · Score: 1

      Oh, I don't know if there is a strong case for collusion, after all if A charges 30% extra than copy cat by B and C doesn't require much imagination or planning, especially if B and C think that consumers will pay the tax. The minute you start thinking that you can evade the tax and that you don't have to buy into a captive market, then you look at it differently.You don't use Google Doc or Google Drive because you can see that the products are all about locking you in, regardless if they are based on Open Source, and violate its intent. You don't use HTML and Word-like formats under closed subsets of open standards by Google, and you use other more powerful open standards like LaTex and thumb you nose at Google.

    28. Re:Bullet, meet foot by Karzz1 · · Score: 1

      I believe I am dumber as a result of watching that video. That has to be one of the funniest, most out of touch things I have seen in a long time.

      --
      Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
  31. No, not quite true. by Myria · · Score: 2

    Yes, apple want you to upgrade to iOS 7, but if you don't want to (or can't because your hardware is too old) they still provide security patches for iOS 6.

    The last update was iOS 6.1.6 in Feb:

    6.1.6 was only released for devices that cannot run iOS 7. If you have a device that can run iOS 7, you had to upgrade to iOS 7 in order to get the important security fix, even if the device had iOS 6.x at the time. There was never an iOS 6.1.6 released for iPad 2 or 3, for example.

    If they had released an iOS 6.1.6 for iPad 2/3, it would've allowed downgrading from iOS 7.x to iOS 6.x then jailbreaking, something Apple hates with a passion.

    --
    "Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
  32. Re:Wow what idiots....can you make it more confusi by oobayly · · Score: 3, Funny

    That's because you're programming against it. If you go easy on .Net and only program alongside it, then it'll start throwing it weight around like an unruly child.

  33. Re:Wow what idiots....can you make it more confusi by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

    They should have gone with something more meaningful, like 8.6.31-11, and perhaps 8.4.x for the old version of the OS.

  34. I can understand this by DrXym · · Score: 1

    8.1 has received a substantial service release that fixes bugs and enhances the UI (slightly). Why should they support the older version any more? That doesn't excuse them from ensuring the upgrade process is smooth and trouble free but I understand why they are doing this.

    1. Re:I can understand this by The123king · · Score: 1

      That's a sweeping definition. If you're running any Windows other than 3.1, 98, 2000, XP or 7, you're definitely doing something wrong. IMHO those are the 5 versions of Windows that are actually really good.

      --
      If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
    2. Re:I can understand this by DrXym · · Score: 1

      It is supported - upgrade to SR1 when Windows Update tells you. The update from 8.0 to 8.1 was WAY more traumatic.

    3. Re:I can understand this by DrXym · · Score: 1

      I run Windows. I run Linux. I don't really care what the OS is providing I can do the things I want to do with it.

  35. Slashdot is ridiculous by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This whole thread is absurd, as are all the people jumping on the "bash MS" bandwagon.

      * Microsoft will continue to support 8.1, and everyone here KNOWS that.
      * Everyone knows that because Microsoft has a bigger problem with having to support old platforms than any other vendor out there. Many posters here generally know this, too, but are being obtuse so that they can harp about Microsoft ending support for a new platform (which isnt even remotely believable).
      * The author of the blog even knows that! The Microsoft technet entry says almost the opposite of what the blogger does-- that 8.1 WILL recieve updates. All he got right is that you do need to install a prereq to get them, like we've seen with countless other OSes. The venerable XP does this, too.
      * Half the people gloating over the "bugginess of Windows" are fans of an OS that is experiencing one of the biggest internet vulnerabilties in about a decade in its SSL stack, but thats OK in their eyes somehow because its not packaged with the OS and therefore theyre allowed to be buggy.
      * Some people are taking the time to smirk about the confusing version numbering of Win8-- which is doubly hillarious given how ridiculous Linux's versioning was until about a year ago.
      * And if I had to guess, the aforementioned problems could possibly be related to the aforementioned heartbleed bug, as we dont know what all was leaked and Microsoft is almost certainly not going to want to go into it.

    But yea, dont let that stop the fun.

    1. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by Spliffster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The SSL flaw has been fixed and rolled out very quickly, it was not the first and will not be the last. How many known Security flaws for windows, IE and many other Microsoft products are out there, unfixed?

      Could you explain why "Microsoft has a bigger problem with having to support old platforms" than anyone else? They seem to have vast resources and should actually be able to react quicker than others.

      Best
      -S

    2. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Generally Windows bugs get patched fairly quickly. Obviously there are outliers. Making the claim that Windows or IE in particular are security nightmares is karmawhoring, becuase its generally not accurate; Internet Explorer 11 for example is generally considered more secure than firefox which is currently a bit of a problem child. How long did it take them to get TLS 1.2 implemented? And they still dont have the browser sandboxed?

      Could you explain why "Microsoft has a bigger problem with having to support old platforms" than anyone else

      They are the only big-name vendor who was supporting a 12-year old OS until a week ago. RHEL just a few years ago committed to supporting RHEL 5(?) for 13 years, which matches Microsoft's commitment to Windows 7 (both 2007-2020). The thing is, you can still call MS and get them to support XP if you beg with enough money. Good luck calling RedHat and getting them to support RedHat Linux 7 (not the enterprise one, the 2002 one).

    3. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1, Insightful


      The thing is, you can still call MS and get them to support XP if you beg with enough money. Good luck calling RedHat and getting them to support RedHat Linux 7 (not the enterprise one, the 2002 one).

      Actually I'd bet if you offered enough money you could get them to support it. But you know what? It doesn't matter if they refuse because you have the source and can pay your own person to support it if you are really desperate.

      That's the nice thing about open source. You aren't dependent on the original vendor. Hell you could get someone to support any OSS if you begged with enough money whether or not the original vendor is still in business.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    4. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In a proprietary codebase it's impossible to know the number of zero-days present because it's a black box. That's just the nature of it. So no, it's not karmawhoring to claim "Windows or IE in particular are security nightmares". They just are, it's ok to say it out loud without being trollish.

      Now, if you're willing to spend millions to mitigate that situation through hiring lots of expert support people and execute very high-level support contracts with the vendor, then maybe you can get your arms around the situation. Which is perfectly fine if an entity chooses to go that route.

      Bottom line is it's really just a TCO issue. Microsoft is orders of magnitude more expensive to maintain than open solutions. Which was really the whole idea behind their lock-in strategy to begin with going all the way back to Windows 3.1.

    5. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Could you explain why "Microsoft has a bigger problem with having to support old platforms" than anyone else? They seem to have vast resources and should actually be able to react quicker than others.

      Larger market share, corporate customers that refuse to upgrade in a timely fashion, legacy line of business apps that flat out don't work in newer versions, etc etc. Apple for example mostly targets consumers, where it's easier to get away with "tough, we don't support that version any more, buy a new Mac". Businesses that do use Apple systems are largely used to that paradigm, so they typically plan for obsolescence more so than Windows customers.

    6. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by Spliffster · · Score: 1

      Generally Windows bugs get patched fairly quickly.

      This is appropriate use of "generally" and "fairly" in that sentence I guess.

      They are the only big-name vendor who was supporting a 12-year old OS until a week ago.

      Microsoft had to support XP so long because Longhorn development was a disaster. Only with win7 they gave companies a viable upgrade. I am working for a large company and we are only just finishing the transition from XP to 7. Guess why? because of loads of Microsoft specific technologies that are not supported anymore and had to be replaced.

    7. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by Sipper · · Score: 1

      The SSL flaw has been fixed and rolled out very quickly, it was not the first and will not be the last. How many known Security flaws for windows, IE and many other Microsoft products are out there, unfixed?

      Could you explain why "Microsoft has a bigger problem with having to support old platforms" than anyone else? They seem to have vast resources and should actually be able to react quicker than others.

      Best
      -S

      This is probably obvious, but the larger they get and the more "integrated" their system is (i.e. I'm thinking of the new level of system integration with Vista versions and above), the slower they're likely to be able to create correct fixes. I don't know this for a fact, but it seems as though the Windows system itself isn't terribly modular compared to other systems (Debian Gnu/Linux for instance) that have packages and dependencies. On a modular system focus can be placed on the "one package" that has a problem (if you can debug the issue down to the package level), but on a very integrated non-modular system where the source code itself is a guarded secret, that sounds like a difficult problem to deal with.

    8. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by The123king · · Score: 1

      All the ones that haven't been found and/or publicised. There is no such thing as bug-free code, no matter if it was written by a multinational company or some kid in his bedroom.

      But back to the subject at hand, Microsoft are only going to stop new updates for Windows 8.1, unless you install the "Update 1" update, which is pretty much just a service pack.So yes, they're ditching support for Windows 8.1 but they'll continue supporting Windows 8.1.1

      All in all it's just a storm in a teacup

      --
      If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
    9. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      Arguing that Microsoft is "bad" because theyre not FOSS (which is really what you are driving at) is irrelevant. Everyone knows they ship proprietary software, but that has no relevance either to this story or to the quality of their code. As we've seen, OpenSSL has a bug that has been hemorrhaging private keys and passwords for days while the closed-source Schannel has not seen such a bug.

      Ideological spiels about how Windows sucks simply because its proprietary are really getting kind of old. If you dont like closed-source software, dont use it, but dont pretend that the license has an impact on code quality; there are a number of FOSS vs proprietary examples where FOSS is horribly deficient.

    10. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      It is karmawhoring because Firefox is a far bigger problem these days than IE10 / 11 / soon-to-be-12, and at the moment the single biggest security vulnerability out there is a FOSS one.

    11. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Microsoft is still supporting Vista, which is ~9 years old at this point. No other major OS vendor is supporting an OS that old; as I said RedHat is the closest, with their RHEL 5 support.

      I am working for a large company and we are only just finishing the transition from XP to 7.

      I imagine a transition from RedHatLinux 7 (Valhalla) to RHEL 6 would be similarly nightmarish. Lets compare apples to apples, shall we?

    12. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      I am the wrong person to get into the nitty gritty of it, but I believe this is handled by Side-by-Side dependencies (SxS) in windows. I have only very rarely seen dependency problems on Windows, even going back to the days when XP was new and 2000 still roamed the earth. Linux dependency problems are less common but theyre definitely a bigger issue than Windows ones.

    13. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by TMYates · · Score: 1

      I completely agree. I should also mention there have been XP updates in the past (though not like a full service pack) that required you to run before any other update would show up. But alas, nobody probably remember the updates to Windows Update that did this.

      The point Microsoft is making here is that 8.1 is going to be supported, but it requires this one update for any future updates. This is probably due to many of the new features and changes to the UI they have implemented. They also probably could have worded it better.

      That being said, they need to fix the current issues with their patch first. Namely the TLS issue because if you do not have 2K8 R2 or higher for a WSUS server then you have to turn off SSL because lower versions cannot support TLS 1.2.

    14. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      Seems like it is. openssl is used by default in most applications that need ssl, whether it's in linux or *bsd. gnutls and polarssl are also used sometimes..

    15. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, I think the problem is that some people have Windows 8.1 and cannot upgrade to 8.1 Upgrade 1. So they are forced to stay on an OS which will not receive patches.

      http://blogs.technet.com/b/gladiatormsft/archive/2014/04/12/information-regarding-the-latest-update-for-windows-8-1.aspx


      Since Microsoft wants to ensure that customers benefit from the best support and servicing experience and to coordinate and simplify servicing across both Windows Server 2012 R2, Windows 8.1 RT and Windows 8.1, this update will be considered a new servicing/support baseline. What this means is those users who have elected to install updates manually will have 30 days to install Windows 8.1 Update on Windows 8.1 devices; after this 30-day window - and beginning with the May Patch Tuesday, Windows 8.1 user's devices without the update installed will no longer receive security updates.

    16. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by Spliffster · · Score: 1

      Our Linux servers (there are many) are updated much more frequently than the windows servers, because we expect and have less problems.

    17. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      The OP claimed that you couldn't get support on very old OSS software from the vendor (though this in itself is a dubious claim).

      That was me, and its not Dubious. RedHatLinux 4 is in "extended" support / the last phases of its support, and thats ~2005. Nothing older than that is supported by them. No commercial Linux distro from 2002 is currently supported; not even the kernel is actively maintained (it was EOL'd 2 years ago).

      You can find a consultant to support it, Im sure, if thats any consolation.

    18. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      That was me, and its not Dubious.

      Yeah it is. You claimed that if you went to RedHat with huge wads of cash they still wouldn't do it. Unless you've tried, I doubt the veraity of that claim. I don't require proof: I'd take your word for it.

      You can find a consultant to support it, Im sure, if thats any consolation.

      That was my point. Being OSS, you're not beholden to the original vendor so it's less important that RedHat support it. If you really need, you can still get someone to support it.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    19. Re:Slashdot is ridiculous by Sipper · · Score: 1

      I am the wrong person to get into the nitty gritty of it, but I believe this is handled by Side-by-Side dependencies (SxS) in windows. I have only very rarely seen dependency problems on Windows, even going back to the days when XP was new and 2000 still roamed the earth. Linux dependency problems are less common but theyre definitely a bigger issue than Windows ones.

      Well, I was speaking of modularity in design terms, not about dependencies per se. Vista and above are known to be "more integrated" than previous Windows versions, and simultaneously nowhere near as modular for the base OS as most Linux distributions. [And as such I agree that dependencies are a bigger issue on Linux than Windows. ;-)] What I'm getting at is that on Linux a bug such as the OpenSSL problem can be quickly narrowed down to a particular package, whereby the code that needs looking at for a fix is much smaller that way. On a more integrated system the source of the error is likely harder to find, and once found more complicated to fix, than a modular system.

      However this is speculation on my part, as I'm not familiar with nor involved in the design of Windows OSes, nor have I looked at any of the Windows source code, and I also don't otherwise have a way of making a "Linux vs Windows" side-by-side comparison.

  36. You ever get the feeling... by Viol8 · · Score: 1

    ... that MS is hemorrhaging all its decent technical staff and now the idiots are taking over the asylum at the technical level just like they've already done at the design and management level? One thing MS was usually pretty good at was testing its service packs/updates/[insert name of the week here] but this just seems like they really didn't bother doing it properly , or , they didn't have the technical know-how to do it.

    1. Re:You ever get the feeling... by The123king · · Score: 1

      MS haemorrhaged most of it's decent staff in the latter part of Ballmers reign, when everyone suddenly realised the bald-headed coot was a as crazy as a bald-headed coot. If i was a shareholder, i'd rather have a hall filled with typewriting monkeys than have Ballmer in charge. There'd be less monkeying around, produce less buggy code, and most importantly, produce much less shit than Ballmer and his management.

      Satya Nadella has perked my interest, and i have great hopes for him and the future of Microsoft. Mainly because he doesn't come across as crazier than a bag full of hammers

      --
      If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
  37. Slashdot == Fox News. Really. by Toreo+asesino · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Let's generate some outrage! We want to be angry about Microsoft!

    Yes, how dare they refuse to support older patch levels of the same OS. Outrageous.

    --
    throw new NoSignatureException();
    1. Re:Slashdot == Fox News. Really. by phayes · · Score: 1

      Timothy works for Fox news during the week? It would explain why he reacts by publishing wildly biased articles the weekend ( with a radical leftist bias to make up for the right wing bias he'd need to work at FN)...

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
  38. No it releases updated for hardware by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    You don't get security updates for 6.1.5, you have to upgrade to 6.1.6, and Apple only provides this because their own hardware won't run 7.x.

    MS saying that they won't provide patches for 8.1.0 now that 8.1.1 is out is trivial. The only PR fuck up is giving a date instead of "after reinstatement of 8.1 Update (8.1.1) availability).

    And don't get me started on Apple. You know the first thing that happens when you call Apple with a problem? They have you wipe the device clean and reinstall the OS from scratch. Which, I suspect, would work fine on nearly any windows machine except for the annoyance of the reinstall. (I don't bother calling Apple anymore for iOS help - I don't have a couple of hours to reinstall the whole goddamned phone and set everything in it back up)

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:No it releases updated for hardware by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      They have you wipe the device clean and reinstall the OS from scratch.

      Flat out false.

      First they do some basic diagnostics, then they tell you to return to an Apple Store if possible, or they'll arrange to have it shipped if the store is too far away, depending on your warranty, that may mean you pay for shipping.

      I've had 3 hardware failures in the last 14 years (I switched when OSX 10.0 became available to the public), none of them required me to 'wipe the device clean', as that wasn't the problem. My latest 'failure' was simply that my display was one of the Retinas' that ghosted slightly if you left the display static ... in my case I intentionally left it on for 8 hours and ... yep, ghosting for a few minutes after that. Took it too the Apple store, they ran the hardware diagnostic (Hold D while booting on modern Macs), then the screen test for this purpose ... it didn't quite meet the requirements for replacement (ghosting had to be visible for more than 15 seconds or something) ... but since the guy saw what I was talking about, he put it in for a replacement display anyway. Oh, we're out of those displays, come back on Thursday ...

      They also replaced a main board in an older laptop due to water damage and a one because I dropped it with a USB device plugged in and it landed on the USB device. Obvious hardware problems require no OS reinstall.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  39. 8.1.1. update 1.. or something like that... by leuk_he · · Score: 1

    So instead of nameing version after a year (2000, 2003, 2008.....), they finally lost track of good version number. Some users barely are aware they are running an OS. And now it has gone so bad that even /. editors fail to keep track of version numbers of the most used OS in the world.

  40. Maybe.... by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1, Funny

    With actions like this, maybe this will really be the Year of Linux on the Desktop.

  41. Re:Pff. Updates. What updates? by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
    After every kernel update these drivers will be automatically upgraded introducing new, improved problems.

    FTFY

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  42. Easily Explianed by hduff · · Score: 1

    Coffin . . . meet nail.

    --
    "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
  43. Windows 8 for Workgroups by tepples · · Score: 1

    If this was the unix world, they'd be talking about no longer updating 8.1.0 and requiring customers update to 8.1.1.

    That would have goaded the popular tech media into making unflattering comparisons to Windows 3.11.

  44. Thanks! Your sequence looks like it will work perf by kiatoa · · Score: 1

    I tried this on my work laptop and it's almost working! Thank goodness I kept a USB floppy drive around in my PC parts junk box. I don't know how you got the patch on one floppy though. It took 122 floppies for the patch I downloaded. Was I supposed to compress the patch somehow? I'm currently loading floppy # 83, wish me luck.

    --
    90% of the wealth is in 2% of the pockets. Bummer to be in the majority.
  45. at this rate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    First they drop xp support, now 8.1, at this rate they're going to run out of things to stop supporting

  46. Buy a certificate to retrieve your core dumps by tepples · · Score: 1

    but would it kill them to stick a "details" button on the dumbed-down error popup to make it trivial for a techie to ask the user to click it and read out a more useful message?

    Microsoft would probably do it the way it does crash reporting, where the user is given the option to automatically send error reports to Microsoft. The developer can retrieve these crash reports by 1. forming a corporation or LLC, 2. buying a certificate from VeriSign or DigiCert in this company's name, and 3. registering with Windows Dev Center Hardware and Desktop Dashboard (formerly Winqual).

    1. Re:Buy a certificate to retrieve your core dumps by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      Microsoft would probably do it the way it does crash reporting, where the user is given the option to automatically send error reports to Microsoft. The developer can retrieve these crash reports by 1. forming a corporation or LLC, 2. buying a certificate from VeriSign or DigiCert in this company's name, and 3. registering with Windows Dev Center Hardware and Desktop Dashboard (formerly Winqual).

      Yes, because its so useful for the developer of your mail reader to get "password wrong" notifications instead of the person who's actually supporting that user...

  47. Criticizing behavior takes time by tepples · · Score: 1

    I think the point is that criticizing behavior takes time that could better be spent to engineer a workaround to said behavior.

    1. Re:Criticizing behavior takes time by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      Oh please. His point was simply to snark.

    2. Re:Criticizing behavior takes time by tepples · · Score: 1

      Tell that to someone who nags me to "DO THE [expletive] WORK and quit whining" when I try to promote awareness of the consequences of entry barriers to getting a video game published.

    3. Re:Criticizing behavior takes time by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Video games are trivial to get published.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    4. Re:Criticizing behavior takes time by tepples · · Score: 1

      Video games are trivial to get published.

      It really depends on the genre because the more locked-down platforms handle some genres better than PCs. Party games, fighting games, and cooperative platformers really need two to four players holding gamepads and looking at one screen. A PC can technically do those, but in practice, desktop or laptop PC's monitor isn't big enough for more than one person, and I'm told few people are aware that they can use virtually any HDTV as a PC monitor. The touch screen that ships with a mobile device makes certain genres hard to control as well, as I discovered when I repeatedly failed to make a certain jump in the demo of Pixeline and the Jungle Treasure on my first-generation Nexus 7 tablet.

      ObMicrosoft: Look at the drama surrounding updates to Fez .

  48. Re:Wow what idiots....can you make it more confusi by tepples · · Score: 1

    And the .NET updaters seem to take a lot more time than regular patches.

    That's because the .NET Framework is rebuilding the "assembly cache" (recompiling the runtime library into the processor's assembly language) after an update. In a comment to a Slashdot story a few days ago, I suggested doing this rebuilding in the background, letting the user use native applications in the meantime, and marking managed applications that aren't yet ready to start with an hourglass icon. But another Slashdot user objected that letting the user run anything before the assembly cache finishes would break native applications that start a managed subprocess without user interaction.

    How badly do you have to fuck up a language runtime library to make it need monthly updates?

    The JavaScript runtime (Firefox or Chrome) needs updates as well. And on Ubuntu, I get plenty of updates to various libraries.

  49. Re:Features are risky by Peristaltic · · Score: 1

    Yea we should never get new features, as they introduce risk. Of course we cannot have any risk in our lives, especially in software.

    Or maybe Microsoft should just provide support for their OS.

    Maybe if the new features were worth a shit, the risks would be worth it.

  50. NEWSFLASH by The123king · · Score: 1

    NEWSFLASH

    Microsoft ends support for Windows 8.1 because Windows 8.1 Update 1 is available!

    More at Ten!

    Seriously, i've never heard so much FUD in my life. Sure, i'll admit it might be a tad premature to end support for 8.1, even though they've released the latest "service pack" for it, but it seems pretty straightforward to end support for what is essentially "8.1 RTM" in favour of "8.1 SP1", especially since that "service pack" is freely available online.

    Storms, mountains, teacups, molehills.

    --
    If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
  51. Its all a cunning plan! by voss · · Score: 1

    Microsoft figures they can get people to buy windows 8.1 by dropping support, because
    after all XP is popular after they dropped support! GENIUS!

  52. Nothing Inherently Wrong? by HannethCom · · Score: 1

    My Blu-ray playing software doesn't work anymore. An update to make it work with Windows 8.1 has come out, but that doesn't work because somewhere from "upgrading" from Windows 7 -> 8 -> 8.1 (Now on 8.1. Update 1) it did not install one of the core system files. My only option to try to fix this, install Windows 8 from scratch.

    I also bought The Sims Medieval, which doesn't work in Windows 8. I think there are a few other games that worked fine in Windows 7, but no longer run.

    There is also a whole bunch of hardware that was deprecated in Windows 8. I have it installed on my netbook which the screen resolution and Intel graphics are not supported. Mind you it runs a lot better, even though the battery doesn't last quite as long due to the screen brightness always being at 100%. On the other hand, it takes 20 seconds to start up now instead of 1 minute 30 seconds.

    Talking about start up time, my main machine went from 50 seconds to 1 minute 20 seconds to start up.

    Then there is the Microsoft Tax developers need to pay to sell their programs if they make a Metro Application.

    While there are some good things like less memory usage, maybe faster start up, less CPU overhead, there are also many things inherently wrong! Enough that I plan to upgrade to Windows 7 when I have the time.

    --
    Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.
    1. Re:Nothing Inherently Wrong? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Your software wasn't updates to win 8. How is the MS's fault?

      Maybe you should check with the software makers of software you make before upgrading the OS?
      "Talking about start up time, my main machine went from 50 seconds to 1 minute 20 seconds to start up."
      People keep saying that, but no one can actually prove it and I have used it on 100's of machines and seen an decrease.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  53. You kids with your Windows 8.1 by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    I couldn't upgrade to 8.1, let alone 8.1 update 1. 8.0 installed fine, but got massive acpi errors with 8.1 that neither Microsoft nor the hardware manufacturer could fix. (Which, I'd like to say, was a bit annoying after waiting for hours for it to download and install.) For that and other reasons, finally gave up and reinstalled Win7. My copy of Win8 gathers dust on the bookshelf.

    It looks like at least some early adopters may be stuck. I don't know of a solution, except perhaps waiting for Microsoft to issue build disks that already contain some future update that sets things right. If such a beast ever materializes.

    What a mess. I'd like to submit, this seems to prove that Ballmer wasn't all that's wrong with Microsoft.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  54. Tsk tsk by Kremmy · · Score: 1

    and people wonder why XP lasted so long

  55. Re:Why not go back to the old SP system and stop t by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

    Because this is not intended for people like you, who know how it used to be. This is for tablet and phone users, who may not understand that the tablet and desktop even run the same os, and think they cannot possibly use the same patch.

    This is not a business friendly decision. Making touch work is not a business friendly decision. But it is the direction they decided to go.

    That's why not. Business is already in the subscription model, so they don't have to care. Users are not yet, so they have to at least try. Not saying it will work, just answering your question.

  56. Re:Features are risky by mlw4428 · · Score: 1

    Some places can't be risk tolerant due to various laws...like hospitals.

  57. Re:Wow what idiots....can you make it more confusi by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

    For maximum screwage, they should continue releasing badly-named X-Boxen until it's impossible to refer to the original one at all using English :D

    X-Box
    X-Box 360
    X-Box One
    X-Box Classic
    X-Box Original
    X-Box First
    X-Box Old (I'd love to see that ad campaign)

    --
    Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
  58. Re:Zontar - sockpuppeteer & libelous troll by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    He has spammed me ~150 times since I last logged in this morning (evening now where I am). The usual, working through my history in reverse order. He apparently thinks I can't tell this is exactly what he's doing.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  59. Re:Zontar - sockpuppeteer & libelous troll by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    Here's what my Message Centre looks like right now:

    * Reply to "Re:It's "for all intents and purposes" zontar" by Anonymous Coward 20:22 Monday 14 April 2014
    Reply to "Re:It's "for all intents and purposes" zontar" by Anonymous Coward 20:26 Monday 14 April 2014
    Reply to "Re:Thank you... apk" by Anonymous Coward 21:58 Monday 14 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:Thank you... apk" by Anonymous Coward 22:01 Monday 14 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:Consider what you will about me (now you)" by Anonymous Coward 22:05 Monday 14 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:Thank you... apk" by Anonymous Coward 22:11 Monday 14 April 2014
    Reply to "Re:Consider what you will about me (now you)" by Anonymous Coward 22:15 Monday 14 April 2014
    Reply to "Re:What time zone is the 10:20 PM?" by Anonymous Coward 22:20 Monday 14 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:I'm going to have an excellent seat" by Anonymous Coward 0:01 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:Answer a question Zontar" by Anonymous Coward 0:15 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:Not the first time this has happened" by Anonymous Coward 0:17 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:Themes..." by Anonymous Coward 0:19 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:Not the first time this has happened" by Anonymous Coward 0:22 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:I'm going to have an excellent seat" by Anonymous Coward 0:30 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:What time zone is the 10:20 PM?" by Anonymous Coward 0:32 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * New Journal Entry by smitty_one_each, "It's just hard to take Justice Stevens seriously" 1:13 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    Reply to "Re:A law for everything..." by Anonymous Coward 1:21 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    Comment Moderation 2:05 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * Reply to "Now I Know..." by Anonymous Coward 6:36 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    Reply to "Now I Know..." by rtb61 6:44 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * Reply to "Now I Know..." by Anonymous Coward 7:31 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:I'm going to have an excellent seat" by Anonymous Coward 7:52 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:I'm going to have an excellent seat" by Anonymous Coward 7:55 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:So?" by Anonymous Coward 8:02 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:So?" by Anonymous Coward 8:04 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:Right on" by Anonymous Coward 8:06 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:If you are a libertarian, the answer is yes" by Anonymous Coward 8:14 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:Zontar recycles personalities (sockpuppets)" by Anonymous Coward 8:16 Tuesday 15 April 2014
    * Reply to "Re:Zontar recycles "personalities" (sockpuppets)" by Anonymous Coward 8:18 Tuesday 15 April 2014

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  60. Re:Why not go back to the old SP system and stop t by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    even in an subscription model the old SP system works good for deploying OS / updates.

  61. Re:Why not go back to the old SP system and stop t by LurkerXXX · · Score: 1

    It wasn't broke, so they fixed it.

  62. Re:As it was said long ago .... by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    These days, ALL consumer software is in eternal beta.

  63. Re:Why not go back to the old SP system and stop t by sillybilly · · Score: 1

    Basically the new trend in computer business is to remove your ability to locally store files, and keep everything in the cloud, for free now, later blackmailed. This is done by forcing everyone onto smartphones, away from traditional PC's with local file storage. When they hold all your data, all your data is in the cloud, how much is access to your own resume worth to you? $59.99 per access instance? That's cheap! When you need to get a job they will all require electronic submission of your resume, and the only way to create that is on the cloud, because locally stored files are a threat to national security, terrorists might compile an AI (artificial intelligence) that hunts all humans down and eats them alive (by being smarter than any human, hacking into any factory and composing satellite and cellular controlled robots to download itself into, ending up with millions of mobile robots smarter than humans). So when you can only "safely" create any computer related bits and bytes only in the cloud, and there is a team of 12 people paid to watch what you create, then once you create such an electronic resume, and gets approval from all 12 to be safe, it will cost you $59.99 per per job submission instance, to cover the cost of security, inspection of what you created. How many jobs can you afford to apply to then per day? And they will only accept electronically submitted resumes, like medical records are mandatory to be electronic anymore. The jobs are the future are increasingly guilt based, such as prison labor, because noncommuting, local workers, with communal lunches, communal bathroom facilities are the only "slaves" able to compete in the global jobmarket and being able to save 55 cents from the $1 per day that they get paid, because 45 cents is what their housing/food/utilities costs add up to. The other job is "telecommuting" without gasoline cost, where you sit at home and get paid to watch traffic cameras and report suspicious activity, or, as mentioned above, be an observer in the cloud and be one of the 12 inspectors who vote and "agree" to release a resume somebody typed into the "wild," to a job submission database. It's all just a matter of security. Old school "secure", nonchipped mechanical typewriters are gonna be really highly prized in the future, as long as you can figure out a way to type on toilet paper, because all other information storage paper will be banned, to save trees. In fact, the french have bidets, where you don't get to use any paper whatsoever, instead a water jet rinses your privates - I never done it, but from my college french who used to live in France, heard it's strange at first, but you can get use it and like it. Must be kinda like anal sex, strange at first, but people can get to like it. And it might become a necessity, because the Obamacare contraceptive requirement is nonsense, Mr. Obama is not aware that in the US we're not able to follow 5 simple instructions to the letter - in fact where I work there is a job that requires writing numbers in sequence on sheets of paper to label parts, and I don't think there was a single time we hit 10000 on the mark, it's always off by 3, or 14, etc. - so we can't even follow one simple instruction, let alone the 1500 steps necessary in organic synthesis to make a contraceptive drug, there is always something messed up, and then you end up with a "mystery" drug that you sell as a contraceptive, but you don't actually know what it is. Unless it's made by Koreans, Japanese, or Taiwanese, because they are the only ones (except maybe some Swiss, Brits, Germans, and UAE folks) who can letter to 10000 on the mark, but not ones born in the US(they are like the rest of us) but raised in those countries. In US drug factories one way to fix problems is to import a critical mass of people from the proper places, say 80% of the workforce that is actually executing the organic synthesis steps. You need insane people who will lose 20 lbs during graduation from high school, like in Korea, where they get so stressed from studying trying to pass t

  64. Re:Why not go back to the old SP system and stop t by sillybilly · · Score: 1

    There is some weird javascript now on Slashdot that keeps jumping the cursor to random places in your text in middle of typing a word, and sometimes overwrites a word remotely, kind of like typing into google search instantly gets autocomplete results, only possible if every single letter is submitted as you type. Back in the old days you could fill out the google search box, then click search, before any network traffic, same with these slashdot submissiion boxes. It might be the browser though, not slashdot, but I'm ashamed of all the grammatical errors in my postings. Btw there is no psychotherapy that relaxes your mind better than coming on Slashdot and bitching. For mental health purposes.

  65. Re:Zontar - sockpuppeteer & libelous troll by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    Zontar needs to stop criticizing APK as truly he's one of the world's greatest programmers. His Hosts file generator spends 4 million processor cycles per entry...

    OMG, how did I manage to miss this? Thank you for making my day. :D

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  66. Q: How many Microsoft engineers does it take to ch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A: None. They just change the standard to darkness.

  67. Re:Zontar - sockpuppeteer & libelous troll by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    This is the Great App that you actually BRAG about? OMFG you sure do, don't ya:

    For deduplication/normalization over its usual intake of fresh/new records. Doing it now, so might as well give you the breakdown of its process run:

    Here is the screenshot of each tab noted below so you know where each stage occurs -> http://start64.com/images/win6... [start64.com]

    ---

    IMPORT = 1 min. 15 seconds

    NORMALIZATION/DEDUPLICATION = 15 seconds

    CONVERT & FILTER (longest part, touches every record) = 9 minutes

    SPEED UP FAVORITE SITES = 20 seconds (I do 20 of them)

    SAVE = 10 seconds

    ---

    Over 145,000 new records... around 11 minutes total runtime!

    I had to stop reading at this point, I was laughing so hard that I was about to hyperventilate.

    APK, not only are you a troll, a bully, and a liar... You are also INCREDIBLY FUCKING STUPID if you think this is something you should be boasting about--this is like bragging about running a 3-month mile.

    ROFLMAO here. UN-fucking-believable. This is the most fun I've had yet this week.

    Even better---This looks like a strong candidate for the link I'll use in my next sig. I'll bet you can't wait.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  68. Re:Hey crybaby, where's YOURS? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    No, I was just pointing out how sad it is that you think posting nonsense 150 times will make it anything other than nonsense, or that you think there's so much as a snowball's chance in Hell that you are going to be able to intimidate me that way.

    And what's this about a GUI? Why do I need one of those, when I can work with real software instead? (You've heard of the LAMP stack, right? Well, to put what I do for a living into terms that you might hope to understand: I work for a company that provides one of the "letters" in "LAMP", and I'm a contributor to a project that provides one of the others.)

    Let's see... You're a troll, a stalker, a liar, a bully, and... not only does it appear that you can't really code, you are so foolish as to *brag about how horribly your code performs*.

    But you're the perfect Slashdotter in that you really do live in your mother's basement, eh? Aw man, this just gets better and better.

    So how does it feel to be known as the Uwe Boll of Visual Basic, Sparky?

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  69. I thought we all hated Canonical now by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    wow, it's 2014, and we're still hatin' on gentoo ricers?

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  70. Re:Zontar - sockpuppeteer & libelous troll by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    Speaking of my work as a writer... I was going to ask you whether maybe you used the VB6 book I co-wrote back in 1999, but apparently you never made it quite that far... So... I guess that question's been answered.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  71. Re:Zontar: Eat your words YET AGAIN (lol) by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    Andy, perhaps you've forgotten about this, so here's a little reminder. You're pulling exactly the same shit here now as you did on Ars 13 years ago...

    Alexander, ... I see you using yet another persona (for at least the 4th time) and bringing total mayhem to the forum.

    You lost your creds a long time ago and made quite a name for yourself, I don't see how you can get it back here.

    I think it's clear you have to go.

    Looks like you were banned for the 4th time a couple days afterwards.

    When you get caught in a lie, you make up a bigger one to try to distract from it. Your pattern never changes in any appreciable way.

    And I'm pretty sure you don't have a degree in anything.

    BTW, you never answered my question about whether or not I've really been trolling Slashdot for the last 10,000 years.

    Was that a few too many zeroes for you to deal with?

    That Ars convo with GOD and MWHN wraps up the first page of results for you on Google. I'm ready to move on to the second page any time now, just let me know when you'd like to take another stroll down Memory Lane.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  72. Re:Zontar STFU? He's got "writers cramp" by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    You've merely demonstrated there (and countless other times elsewhere) that you are chronically incapable of understanding humour even when it is explained to you in exquisite detail.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  73. Re:Zontar - sockpuppeteer & libelous troll by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    Are you getting this? Are you? He's effectively turning off the Windows process scheduler to make his process run faster.

    OMG. And he wonders why his stuff gets flagged as malware?

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  74. Re:"There is nothing you can do..." by MissionAccomlished · · Score: 1

    APK can't write real software so he/she/it just adds some crap to a text file and claims to be a 'developer'. What a useless wanker.

  75. Re:Wow what idiots....can you make it more confusi by kwbauer · · Score: 1

    So, as long as I continue to write code against my current version of .Net, the automated update ecosystem will notice that and not ask me to update but the day I cease writing code against it, then I'll be inundated with updates on a daily basis?

    oobayly, do you live in Colorado?

  76. Re:So... by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

    dumb bosses made me use a win 7 machine.

    Saying "Vista was ok" is like saying "Ok, one of my testicles was torn from my body, but otherwise it was a good experience"...

    --
    _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
  77. Re:So... by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

    p.s. the current win 8 experience has both testicles being torn from your body, or so my father said when he received a win 8 machine as an x-mas gift..

    BTW

    Slow Down Cowboy!

    Slashdot requires you to wait between each successful posting of a comment to allow everyone a fair chance at posting a comment.

    It's been 4 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment

    Seriously?

    --
    _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
  78. LOL! NAPK wins over "diploma-less" APK again! ROFL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I said typing diploma, fool.

    But while we're on the subject:

    How those qualifications stack up. This is a comparison of the known qualifications of each of the individuals APK is stalking with APK:

    Has written software generally considered Malware?

    Clone: No

    Squiggleslash: No

    Tom Hudson: No

    Red Flayer: No

    GMHowell: No

    Zontar The Mindless: No

    Alexander Peter Kowalski: YES

    Failed English language courses at school? (Or should have done, given inability to spell or use standard English grammar)

    Clone: No

    Squiggleslash: No

    Tom Hudson: No

    Red Flayer: No

    GMHowell: No

    Zontar The Mindless: No

    Alexander Peter Kowalski: YES

    Harasses critics?

    Clone: No

    Squiggleslash: No

    Tom Hudson: No

    Red Flayer: No

    GMHowell: No

    Zontar The Mindless: No

    Alexander Peter Kowalski: YES

    Promotes bogus "anti-virus" scheme that by own admission doesn't work and lulls users into false sense of security?

    Clone: No

    Squiggleslash: No

    Tom Hudson: No

    Red Flayer: No

    GMHowell: No

    Zontar The Mindless: No

    Alexander Peter Kowalski: YES

    Is unable to make friends in real life and uses sock-puppets instead?

    Clone: No

    Squiggleslash: No

    Tom Hudson: No

    Red Flayer: No

    GMHowell: No

    Zontar The Mindless: No

    Alexander Peter Kowalski: YES

    Unable to get a real, paying, job and forced to sell self-written crapware instead?

    Clone: No

    Squiggleslash: No

    Tom Hudson: No

    Red Flayer: No

    GMHowell: No

    Zontar The Mindless: No

    Alexander Peter Kowalski: YES

    Lifelong open misogyny leading to lifelong virginity?

    Clone: No

    Squiggleslash: No

    Tom Hudson: No

    Red Flayer: No

    GMHowell: No

    Zontar The Mindless: No

    Alexander Peter Kowalski: YES

  79. Re:Pff. Updates. What updates? by bbsalem · · Score: 1

    Of course most of the driver problems, i.e. Nvidia, have to do with the binary being closed source and with the vendor being coerced to provide a driver against their business plan to remain closed source while operating in an open sourced environment, I hear you Richard Stalman. Most of the Linux install problems have to do with closed hardware designed for Windows systems.

  80. So glad I held off on 8.1 now by Reeznarch · · Score: 1

    Every once in a while I would get the notices asking me to update to 8.1 and I just ignored them, fearing my precious data would be at risk (I write music, and yes I backup, but not very incrementally.) It's like experience has taught me a thing or two, and for that, I'm grateful.