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Jesse Jackson: Tech Diversity Is Next Civil Rights Step
theodp writes: U.S. civil rights leader Rev. Jesse Jackson called on the Obama administration Monday to scrutinize the tech industry's lack of diversity. "There's no talent shortage. There's an opportunity shortage," Jackson said, calling Silicon Valley "far worse" than many others, such as car makers that have been pressured by unions. He said tech behemoths have largely escaped scrutiny by a public dazzled with their cutting-edge gadgets. Jackson spoke to press after meeting with Labor Secretary Tom Perez for a review of H-1B visas, arguing that data show Americans have the skills and should have first access to high-paying tech work. Jackson's Rainbow Push Coalition plans to file a freedom-of-information request next month with the EEOC to acquire employment data for companies that have not yet disclosed it publicly, which includes Amazon, Broadcom, Oracle, Qualcomm and Yelp. Unlike the Dept. of Labor, Jackson isn't buying Silicon Valley's argument that minority hiring statistics are trade secrets. Five years after Google's HR Chief would only reassure Congress the company had "a very strong internal Black Googler Network" and its CEO brushed off similar questions about its diversity numbers by saying "we're pretty happy with the way our recruiting work," Google — under pressure from Jackson — fessed up to having a tech workforce that's only 1% Black, apparently par for the course in Silicon Valley.
Follow the money.
Step #1 would be for not allowing people to look down on those who are smarter. Way too many people in the USA make it a point of pride that they are dumb.
Tech isn't about equal rights. It's about if you are smart enough to get it done.
If there isn't a minority in there they are not smart enough.
It's bad enough we have to deal with the Indians and Chinese with their H1B Visas and working practically for free, the last thing we need to do is be forced
to work with someone who can't carry their own weight.
I can't speak for what it is like in Silicon Valley but where I work in the deep south I would estimate that at least 30% of my fellow tech workers are of African ancestry.
I'm confused... is Jackson arguing for more Americans, or more black people, or more black Americans, to get tech jobs?
After listening to Jackson over the years, it's now almost a reflex for me to argue against his statements. But I'm still sketchy on what they are in this case.
We need to stop teaching people that their skills and abilities matter and that the color of their skin is what is important right? That'll get rid of racism right? Effing liberals.
But I have a hard time referring to Rev. Jackson by the titular "US Civil Rights Leader" when in fact, he is most widely known for promoting the civil rights of a specific minority. Also, and again, I don't like where this is going. Hiring should be based on qualification of skill, and NOTHING else. Trying to make up for inequality of upbringing by arbitrating diversity standards is as stupid today as it was 20 years ago.
Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
barack obama has proven once and for all there are no white people holding blacks back from anything. jesse jackson is just a failed attempt at maintaining the racial divide in the US. it is not white responsibility to make sure these various colors of people get ahead in our country. all they have to do is exactly how us responsible do; get your shit together, dont let crack or a joint distract you from your long term goals. no more excuses. and stop emulating people like snoop dog and others that brag abt drugs.
nothing is keeping you in 'the hood'. i am dirt poor and have lived in a middle-class neighborhood for over 30yrs. i rent a tiny one bedroom apt in a rental house, and im disabled. yes, i get less than 1k/mo, just like most of the blacks out there whining abt 'i only make min wage'. shut up, i have less income than you. just get your shit together n stay out of my hood.
He seems convinced that the tech companies with the fewest black developers make the most amazing products.
It seems he's basically arguing that there's a correlation (and therefore maybe causality) between being diverse and not leading the market.
...it's the content of one's culture.
If Jesse wants more people with his skin color in the tech industry, he needs to get more of them into the proper culture.
A thug mentality, and victimhood culture, does not succeed. A culture focused on academics, hard work, and personal responsibility does.
Hard to take him seriously when he's basically made himself very wealthy by "advocating" for blacks. It's hard to find anything he's done in the last 30 years that has had any meaningful impact, beyond lining his own pocket. But that hasn't stopped him from taking the soap box every chance he can get, before moving onto whatever new crisis comes up -- often leaving his previous efforts hanging.
Having an "equal opportunity" President is proving to be so popular, I can't wait for Mr. Jackson to be treated by an "equal opportunity" heart surgeon...
Not only is Silicon Valley young and Illiberal, they are also working on developing their businesses and would not sabotage their start-ups' success by turning away real talent.
Whatever the problem is, Silicon Valley's "racism" ain't it...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
> Jackson spoke to press after meeting with Labor Secretary Tom Perez for a review of H-1B visas, arguing that data show Americans have the skills and should have first access to high-paying tech work.
I usually find myself disagreeing with Jackson, but he seems to be on the right track here. I'm really hoping his involvement doesn't muddy the issue.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
From a NYT article:
As I read it, America is about 63% non-Hispanic white. Which sounds pretty close to Google's proportion of white technical staff.
It sounds like Jackson really needs to have a discussion as to why black people are being so out-hired by Asians.
I saw him cry like a baby when Obama was elected..
I kind of think he's for real.
On the other hand, as someone who has worked with very gifted African-American developers (at least here in Metro-Atlanta)* and who was offered a lucrative position because of his talents (technical AND social - he was GREAT to work with!), I am not so sure that there is a problem on the employer's side based upon my sample of one with a standard deviation of nonsense.
Oh! The '*' - we had a HUGE problem with our software. I was tasked with finding out WTF happened.
It was me. I fucked up.
Now, I was handed a GOLDEN opportunity to blame the black guy as Chris Rock would say.
I told the lead, "It was my code. Let me fix I know what I did."
Tech lead, "But it was something that [black guy's name] did to cause it, riiiight?"
"Nope. It was me."
"But there was something he did that made you think you needed to code it the way you did? Right?"
A bit terse: "Nope"
End of conversation.
End of jobs from that contracting company too.
Why did I do that? Because of my own sense of fairness, I really like the guy, and my own belief that talent and hard work should be rewarded and folks who make a mistake should have the opportunity to make it right and learn from it (that's me).
I think I was done a favor. I love tech but I hate working in it.
I mean what he wants is tech companies to hire minorities because of their race right? Wouldn't it be more fair to be colorblind in the workplace and hire people according to skill?
Posting as A. C because you are afraid to face the Black Man.
Comander Taco, Now is the time for a -1 RACIST moderation to put these peope in there places!
And that's EXACLTY how the Jesse Jackson shakedown works.
"Do what I say or I'll call you a RAAAAAACIST!!!"
Jackson really should patent that. It's a hell of an effective "business" method.
I'd bet a dollar that the offices of tech companies outside of Silicon valley are a bit more diverse. What are the stats on offices in Atlanta, NYC, or Chicago? Not everyone is willing to move to the valley in pursuit of a six figure paycheck and 100 hour work week.
Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
I have a dream that my four little computers will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their case, but by the content of their harddrives.
Does the article really mean to say "lack of diversity"? My company's IT department is a little over 80% east Indian, which although technically (probably) meets the definition of "lack of diversity", misses the usual colloquial definition of "too many white guys".
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
It's not racism to point out the fact that most H1B scab labor in IT is Indian. It's also not racist to point out that "lowering the bar" is bogus.
If Jesse wants to wage the next race war, he should start by getting more black kids interested in STEM and education in general. He can fight against the pervasive drug and gang culture that keeps black kids away from any means to better themselves.
Perhaps he could even get a bunch of athletes and rappers to just read to kids.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Sadly, Silicon Valley's rampant ageism goes on unchallenged. Not everyone is affected by race, but eventually everyone is affected by age.
Jesse Jackson is a master at crying out racism. This skill resulted in his family getting the beer distribution rights for Bud at Wrigley field and other venues. I would see his cries about silicon valley for what they are, a shakedown.
Programming/software development is a field that does not tolerate sub-par performers, while for the most part recoginizes exceptional performers.
Maybe there is something to the SV culture that's either rotten or just too self-absorbed to acknowledge there may be a problem. I'm down in SoCal (LA) and having worked for several small tech shops, I've never seen the issues that a lot of folks complain about up in SV. My workgroup is 50% female, and other than my manager, everyone is a minority (black, asian, indian-asian (and not H1Bs). Upper management tends to be of the white-male variety (I dunno, do we count gingers in that?) although our CEO is white female. I've been on the interview panels and it's not like we were hiring for diversity. We were just looking for people who had the technical know-how and personalities that would not be detrimental to our work group. And, I must add, our women engineers are engineers, not just "tech evangelists" or "tech spokeswomen" and the like that seem to get a lot of controversial press up there. Our black developers? The same. Maybe there really is a tech-bro-fraternity mentality in the SV, I've not moved up there to find out for myself (and as an asian, I don't imagine I'd actually see much of it directed against me, but who knows? More likely, I'd face issues because I'm over the age of 40).
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
I'm beyond it. Our parents aren't. But I think my generation is beyond it. Once they phase out of leadership roles, I think parasites like Jessie will find they have guilt upon which to feed.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Who's going to read to the athletes and rappers?
I was once told that I'd be working primarily with white males, because only one out of every 200 candidates that apply to work there fit that demographic.
Like Microsoft laying off 18,000 and simultaneously arguing for more H1B visas?
If Jesse wants to wage the next race war, he should start by getting more black kids interested in STEM and education in general.
Jackson isn't interested in waging race war, he wants to shakedown businesses for money for his organization and those of his cronies. Making it about race is just his form of extortion. Notice that whenever he goes after some company, it's suddenly made all better when it makes a donation to his cause and/or hires one or more people of Jackson's designation. I really admire the way the CEO of Cypress Semiconductor refused to knuckle under to Jackson back in 2001 after Jackson labeled Cypress a "white supremacist hate group.’” I hope every Silicon Valley target of his does the same.
We are on the opposite ends of the ideological rainbow (no pun intended), but I agree with part of what he is doing. The USA has plenty of high tech workers to fill any voids in the IT world here in the USA. If the number of H-1B visas should change, it would be to lower it, in my opinion. Definitely, do not increase this number.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
This seems to only happen in a government setting. Am I right?
I work in the in Metro Atlanta and I had a few (quite talented I might add) African-American developers. One saved my ass with an encryption routine.
Geoffry was this Nubian -as he referred to himself - very sharp coder/developer/computer scientist/ or what ever title you want to give him.
Back in Boca Raton, my boss was this African-American who was a cross between Link on Mod Squad and Mr. Rogers. Brilliant developer who had the management-leadership skills that would melt the brains of the best.
If I were a rich man....yabba dabba doo ... I'd give him a billion dollars and make him rich too - and me richer.
Perhaps he could even get a bunch of athletes and rappers to just read to kids.
That's assuming these athletes and rappers can even read. http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/...
"Now, I doubt any of you would prefer a rolled up newspaper as a weapon against a dictator or a criminal intruder."
And that's EXACLTY how the Jesse Jackson shakedown works.
"Do what I say or I'll call you a RAAAAAACIST!!!"
Jackson really should patent that. It's a hell of an effective "business" method.
Well, I have seen racism in dev shops before, to be sure, but not the sort that Reverend Jackson wants shakedown money for. I've worked for more than one place where "white men born in America" were about 2% of engineers. Normally, it's just not an issue, but at one place the racism was so bad that everyone not of the preferred race left over the course of 6 months after a shift of management. (Not saying what that race was, as the problem was just a couple of assholes, and not a more general problem).
I've also seen straight-up redneck racist at the first dev shop I ever worked at, back when we rode dinosaurs to work, but that company was so exploitive that racism only makes the middle of its list of abuses.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I don't get it...I worked hard and was determined, and built my career from the ground up, WITHOUT a college degree. I don't understand why or even how I've continuously found work in an industry that needs a civil rights movement...? Should I ask the myriad of previous and current minority co-workers their experiences and trials/tribulations in attempting to break into this industry with such a color barrier? This is a fucking slap in the face of the ACTUAL civil rights movement of the past, and it sickens me.
Yes! I was rejected for a job at Google once. Now I will be able to tell everyone it was only because I'm white. ;-)
Seriously though, while I agree that hiring should be based on qualifications and not race/gender (or being a USian for that matter you bunch of nationalists), if an industry has so few non-white guys we need to take a long hard look at ourselves to check that there's no unfairness going on.
While I think that Jackson is an opportunistic jackass, resorting to racial epithets is completely unnecessary and only serves to undercut your message. Be better than this. You owe it to your society and yourself.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
As a retired executive of a small east coast engineering services firm (and familiar with numerous other execs over a twenty some year career who all felt similar), all it takes is the right skills at the right price to get the job. I'd hired you if you were black, white, brown, or purple if you had the skills we needed at a price we could afford. Our biggest customer was the federal government, and when asked by a minority manager at that goverment agency why we didn't employ more of HIS minority members I noted that the firm was already about 25% total monority hiring. I then asked how I should choose between two equally qualified job candidates; one a member of the manager's minority group, and the other not a minority. The manager stammered and stuttered and was unable to provide any answer. When I suggested I would chose the candidate who would cost the business the least (salary and benifits) you would never have believed the dumbfounded look on the manager's face when hit with the realization that there might be more to hiring than race.
I'm in Cambridge MA, and in 15 years I have interviewed exactly two African American (out of hundreds of interviews) tech workers and both were not close to qualified for the jobs they were interviewing for.
There's a shortage of candidates!
So we are supposed to allow companies to hire white, heterosexual cis males just because of intelligence, creativity and work ethic? Check your privilege!
He doesn't need to.
Black Computer Science graduates essentially reached parity in 2006, capturing 12.4% of CS degrees. no longer can they be dismissed as an “under-represented minority”.
I am an Indian (asian) and work in SF and have worked in a few big tech companies down in the valley. I understand that people like Jesse Jackson spew a lot of rhetoric for their own cause not necessarily for upliftment of the people he supposedly represents. And, I also understand, the solution isn't as easy as making tech companies have some sort of affirmative action - if there aren't enough black people with basic tech skills or college degrees then affirmative action isn't going to help. All that said, it is bizarre - in all the places I have worked including the current, there isn't a single black person on the entire floor. And, think, places like Oakland are just right across the Bay here but so few black people on the tech workforce. It speaks volumes about the failed social integration of black people in this nation - and it has failed at so many levels - from basic primary education, healthcare, law enforcement to higher education and outright discrimination. It doesn't matter who's to blame for it, really because at end of the day, you have a population that isn't as functional as the rest and we should be fixing that. Instead, we have these arguments where people don't even seem to recognize the problem.
So what you are saying is that we need a program where kids go in to read to athletes and rappers?
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Jesse Jackson is a Professional Victim. 'Nuff said.
Progressives are all for... being fucking retards.
Jesse Jackson is a crook and runs a business, not a charity... it's called the Rainbow/PUSH coalition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...
They show up, accuse your business/industry of racism, do not letup until... you donate money to their cause, then they drop the issue.
It's a scam.
Just take a look at NASCAR.
About 15yrs ago, NASCAR tried to break out of the south and become a mainstream sport. They were largely successful. Jesse Jackson saw this as an opportunity, went on morning talk shows and accused the industry of racism for their lack of black participants. Now, I'm not even going to argue that point... there are very few African Americans in NASCAR. It may very well have a problem with race... that's not the problem.
What's the problem then? NASCAR then donated around $250,000 to Jesse Jacksons Rainbow Coalition and suddenly they were right with black America, Jessie Jackson dropped the issue and said NASCAR didn't have a race problem. NASCAR didn't add a single black employee or change any of their policies. The problem isn't that there isn't a racial divide in NASCAR or even Silicon Valley. The problem is Jessie Jackson doesn't care. He just wants to use that disparity to extort money from those businesses. He's a scam artist and a crook, and it's sad he's seen with such reverence in this country. He's done nothing but harm the black community and he should be ashamed of himself.
yes, this is the case. Glad you spoke up.
The AFL-CIO reports that more
African Americans earn more computer-related degrees than Asians or Hispanics.[8]
In 2010, 4,565 Bachelor’s degrees were awarded to African Americans in computer and information science. African Americans earned 1,193 more Bachelor’s degrees than Asians and 1,623 more than Hispanics.
Also in 2010, African American students earned 1,324 Master’s degrees in computer and information sciences.
see more here: http://www.brightfuturejobs.com/they_want_you_to_blame_us
Donna Conroy, Director
The major cause of the lack of minority and women computer programmers was a financial barrier to entry.
Today, you can get a desktop computer for $250. You can get a tablet for $300. You can get a laptop for $400. You can get an Android smartphone for $600, all pretty much medium to high end hardware, nothing second hand or used. 15 years ago, you had to invest a minimum of $1000 to get a new computer, and $1500 would give you something more reasonable. Importantly, decent home broadband connections are now affordable for all but the poorest individuals.
The difference between someone becoming a computer programmer and making millions of dollars throughout his or her career and someone not in the field might now only be a few hundred dollar initial investment whereas when I was a kid it was thousands of dollars. Fortunately, we don't have to worry about that large investment anymore, so this aspect of the problem has solved itself.
There are plenty of scholarship opportunities for minority and women computer programmers, but they need to get started way before college. Nobody learns programming at the university. If you're doing programming for the first time at the university, then very likely you'll never want to do it again. The programming work you do at school is dull, formulaic, theoretical, useless, and often frustrating.
Anytime Jesse Jackson gets involved, you know it's more about skin color than relevant metrics.
In some cultures, we might call that "racist".
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
I would keep an eye on that space. Since January, I've visited two very impressive inner-city STEM programs. One's run by the University of Michigan and is in Detroit, of all places, and the other is right here in Chicago, at Lindblom High, run by a friend of mine.
The real interesting part will come in a few years, when these incredibly smart and capable kids start showing up in tech jobs. Then we'll see how many cries of, "affirmative action" we start to hear when a young black kid who grew up in a rough neighborhood gets promoted. We'll learn a little more about whether racism is a thing of the past or not.
Seriously. At the Detroit place (it can't really be called a "school" because it's more of a maker space with a bunch of very sharp faculty), there was a kid who was coming out of the program and he had some very impressive schools recruiting him (but they wanted him to get his G.E.D. first, for some reason). He ended up getting his G.E.D., but then took a job with a well-known tech firm, because why would he go all NCAA, when the pros were calling, you know?
It's going to be an interesting time.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Why is Jesse Jackson only protesting about the rights of African and Latino Americans instead of the rights of ALL Americans?
Isn't that the very defintion of being blatantly racist?
As 3 tech advocacy groups show, Manpower, IBM, and Infosys are blocking qualified candidates.
"claim", not "show", Donna.
You're full of shit.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Right....because it's not like the STEM jobs aren't going to H1B visa holders...oh wait they are....moron.
So rather than asking why there aren't more blacks in tech, and addressing those issues (which mostly center on the welfare state and drug war destroying black culture), Jesse is going to pretend to still be relevant by trying to get racial hiring quotas in the tech industry. Oh joy...
Racism against minorities is about as common in the US as polio (both exist only due to small pockets of people who ignore reason and logic). Jesse needs to keep fanning the flames on anything he can. Otherwise he'd have to get a productive job...like the white, Indian, and Chinese techies he wants to get fired.
How come Jesse isn't concerned with the lack of diversity in professional basketball?
"Black Googler Network"
What a bunch of racists! I wonder how strong the "White Googler Network" is. Or the "Hispanic Googler Network". Or the "Men's Googler Network".
What a bunch of race hustling, shake-down artists.
Pay your taxes hippy.
So what you are saying is that we need a program where kids go in to read to athletes and rappers?
But the only pool of kids that can do that are the very ones these athletes and rappers BEAT UP in school for acting white by learning to read in the first place!
That others engage in cronyism doesn't make Jesse Jackson's actions not cronyism.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
This and many similar disparities are only solvable with enhanced K-12 education in low-income, low-performing areas. Yes, that means spending more federal/state dollars per capita than in median income areas. More teachers (that stay for more than 3 years), smaller classrooms (that also have heating, cooling, and supplies), and more reliable funding. It does not suffice to provide equal state funding-- we got shit to fix.
Not enough minorities at Microsoft? What's the proportion of minorities in the tech field?
Not enough minorities in the tech field? What's the proportion of minorities taking STEM majors?
Not enough minorities in STEM majors? How prevalent and to what quality was their STEM education in K-12?
It always comes back to the K-12 education. Crime, poverty, treatment of women, minority imbalance in industry-- How good was the education?
Want to fix the future? Focus on the education of the poor.
Really? -Census reported that only one in four STEM degree holders is in a STEM job
-Microsoft announced plans to downsize its workforce by 18,000 jobs.
- analyses on the issues have not been able to find any credible evidence to support the IT industry’s assertions of labor shortages. http://press.princeton.edu/tit...
So good luck with you bullshit.
This is not a racist rant, but a realistic look at some of the issues Jackson might want to address within the black community first before taking his usual stance of blaming everyone else:
72% of black kids born out of wedlock (compared to 17% for Asians). The Rev [cough] Jackson himself had an affair & fathered a child with another woman.
Double the unemployment rates of whites (roughly 5.4 to 11.5% as of last month)
Why doesn't he talk about the negative affects of hip-hop culture (glorifying violence, promoting misogynistic attitudes to an extreme, promotes wealth through any (often illegal) means)
On average, African American twelfth-grade students read at the same level as white eighth-grade students. 54% of African Americans graduate from high school, compared to more than three quarters of white and Asian students. [http://www.pbs.org/wnet/tavissmiley/tsr/too-important-to-fail/fact-sheet-outcomes-for-young-black-men/]
50% of the murders in the country are committed by black men, who comprise only 6% of the total US population. NEVER talks about, but will spend endless hours race baiting over a single case like Martin.
Look at the murder rate in Chicago, his home town (and the perps)
As a liberal myself, Jackson's race baiting and racial profiteering sickens me -- he only uses his racial politics to advance his own ego and fatten his wallet. He hasn't been a civil rights leader in decades in my opinion, he's a self serving jerk who actually promotes racism, a dependence culture and victim mentality. He's done more damage to the black community than good, but is such a smooth talker, his fans don't see it.
'The unexamined life is not worth living' - Socrates
First: I'm white and I'm not a liberal. Seriously, people indicting Jackson here, and by implication defending the BS practices of high tech, with their H1-B abuse, where there IS recism at work, including racism of the kind where many, many recruiters in SV are of Indian origin, and who "hire their own". THIS is reality. What about ageism in SV?
And don't go telling me that SV is a meritocracy!! There are so many incompetent operators (including coders) in the SV pig pen that it isn't even funny. Have you forgotten that almost everything that is put out for sale these days is bug-ridden? Get a life!
And, Go Jesse! Bring it to these tech companies who have been getting away with EVERYTHING while they walk away with profit at the expense of everyone else.
California will become a battleground state in 2016 Election if Liberals keep it up.
Jesse Jackson is not a Black leader. He does not and never has spoken for Black people. He is self serving and always has been.
However!
As one of the few Black men in IT, I have to say it is prejudicial almost every time I interview for a position. I have over 15 years in IT. I have done Software Engineering; SQA Engineering; Systems Engineering and Technical Project Management. There have been questions of my ability to do what is on my resume that are legit. But I have had more than a few instances where it was obvious to me that the questions "all of a sudden" take a weird turn. I applied for a Systems Admin position, did really well on the phone technical screen. Came in for a face to face and things took a turn. Under the guise of "I just want to see how you think" questions that are usually asked to potential Software Developers are being asked. I handled the questions with ease (a good education AND experience as a Developer). The surprise on the face of interviewer was disheartening. I knew what was being attempted. So now questions like, "How does one measure the amount of water passing a particular point in a river?" or "Why can you not see the Moon during the day?" are being asked. I've asked more than a few of my IT colleagues if they have had these situations and not one has. The assumption that all Blacks are from the "Inner City" "the ghetto" or "Urban" and lack education is so wrong. There are many of us that are twice as good and make half as much because of the Supremacist entitlement that pervades this culture.
Dear Sir:
Please move.
Based upon your passion and certainty, I think you would love the Libertarian Paradise that is today's Modern Somalia. Exceedingly little Government Interference. Significant numbers of gun-toting neighbors with whom to Fraternize and enjoy (vicariously, of course, after your move) your (formerly) 2nd Amendment Rights. Considerable Religious Fervor and Pressure towards Infidels and Tacit Approval of the Melding of *BOTH* Church *AND* State.
We are of the Concerted Opinion that you should re-Locate immediately if not sooner.
That said, and the lawyers remind us to add for legal protection:
Be Advised: Strong Adherents of Assless-Chaps Fashion Statements should exercise Caution when exiting a domicile with a full-range pivot screen door.
Having conducted many tech interviews over the past 17 years, in high demand markets, I can say that the number of qualified candidates in the US is abysmally low compared to the open positions. There are lots of people with degrees in CS or a similar field, but the ones who can actually do the job at the level required is very low. If we find someone who can code well enough to do the work, we don't care how much pigmentation it has, what it's genitals look like, what gods it reveres (if any), or any of that other crap.
The imports are absolutely necessary to keep American companies competitive in a global market. Otherwise the 21st century tech centers will be in south or east Asia, along with all the profits, high paying jobs, and resulting tax revenue.
And what Jesse wants is money for his group, or to be on the news. He's a person who used to have power, and is now completely irrelevant. He's desperately clinging to anything he can.
Jesse Jackson is the worst Racist evarrrrrrr..
Butttt, buttttt, butttt I'm BLACK, I MUST BE PROTECTED AND GIVEN PREFERENCE BECUZ I"M BLACKKKKKKKKKKK
Sorry Jesse, you're butt-hurt.
Find qualified people who actually applied for the positions and were rejected because of their race, then you might have a leg to stand on, otherwise, here's a case of shut-the-fuck-up.
Ending the war on drugs would be a good step towards breaking down the honour culture that causes so many problems for some African Americans. Don't forget that this happens because of institutionalized incentive structures.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
That said our boss was quite a progressive guy and reached out to hire a black guy and several typical American women. The women were a disappointment. It has to be said that they proved to be demanding low performers. Had high expectations of everything and everyone else, but didn't really put points on the board for the team. In talks about the women I learned the US English codeword PITA, not the flat bread, but Pain In The A**. It was true.
The black guy turned out well. In the first couple months he was very reserved and looking back I think he was very keen to not make mistakes or rub anyone the wrong way. But man, after that first 90 days or so, he relaxed and realized we weren't going to bite him, and he started learning the craft with real zeal. He was one of the hardest working fellows I ever met in my time in the U.S.
I think the dynamic is that black people in the U.S. are all too accustomed to having "the prize" and opportunity dangled in front of them, and then snatched away once someone has got what they wanted from that black person. So they I think have learned to regard the larger American system with suspicion or at least much caution. However if they see by actions and not words that something is the real deal, the team is there and they are part of it, no bait and switch, they really get fired up and loving it.
>. I pray, when they die, the ghost of MLK spends eternity bitch-slapping the both of them day in and day out.
That put a smile on my face. MLK was a leader, one of the best. Jackson is not a leader, he's a whiner. Also a liar. WWhas it Jesse or Sharpton who was about 8 years old when he started calling himself "Reveren"? Either way, they're the same - professional whiners. Where exactly is your church, reverend? I'll try to avoid having my daughter exposed to either of them, lying and telling her she can't do anything because of her complexion.
I'll assert that even more pernicious than drug and gang culture is the culture of *victimhood*. When you believe that your failings are not your personal responsibility, and instead insist that they are someone else's fault, and that you must wait and demand for reparation from that someone else before life can continue, you end up in a morass. Mr. Jackson lives in this morass full time.
in there places
Come now, that's hardly proper Ebonics; you've got the wrong pronunciation and spelling. :p
On a more serious note, I'd never judge anyone by their skin color or ethnic background... but their behavior and cultural attitude, that's goddamned fair game. And I'm willing to bet that if you insist on "acting black," I'm not likely to find your abilities any more impressive than if you act like whitetrash or a dumb hick. Reality may be a bitch; what she isn't is a racist. ;)
Problem is, racism is stereotyped. White males are assumed to be racist, women and blacks are assumed to be less racist. Ask 10 slashdotters if white male hiring managers would be racist in their ratings of resumes, or if women and black hiring managers would be racist in their ratings of resumes, and I'll bet they'll rate the white male highest in terms of racism :)
There is an echo chamber of social prejudice where the social prejudice of given groups is taken as natural and confirmed.
The fact of the matter? I've met more black racists than white ones. YMMV.
Anyone interested in an electronics degree, just like those interested in CS of any type (IT, programming, networking, whatever), should already know the basics. The sciences are not something you just decide to do on enrollment day and expect to be good at. There are certain skills and aptitudes that need to be in place, a way of thinking out problems that cannot be easily learned, and not having an interested in them until you're deciding on your future carer on college enrollment day, is setting yourself up for failure.
If you're in it for the money, you're going to suck as a professional in any science, and you're work will be sub par.
--- Keep the choice with the user..
I just had an interesting idea. If there is a disparity in the diversity of an industry, then when beginning university we should mandate that equal portions of people attend each major. We already trying to do it to businesses. Why not extend it to the university? It doesn't make any sense. I think businesses are so money hungry these days they do not care about race. Most will pick the most qualified individual for the lowest pay they can find them. Don't blame industry because of differing cultural interest in university.
For some reason, Americans have developed a stereotype of "white" and "black" that is related far more to social class than anything else. When you say "white," we imagine someone from the middle class. When you say "black," we imagine someone from lower socioeconomic status. How many blacks are in the middle class, I'm not sure, but as for whites in lower classes, we have them coming out our ears. While we may have millions of blacks who live in ghettos, we have 10 times as many whites living in trailor parks.
Because of our confusion between ethnicity and social class, we end up with things like Dave Chappelle's "Racial Draft": http://www.thecomedynetwork.ca/blogs/2013/06/chappelles-show-june5-racial-draft
While amusing, it highlights the real problem, and this false stereotype is widespread throughout American culture.
I recall an interview with Bill Cosby, talking about educational advancement among black children. Peers discourage each other from studying because it's "acting white." When in fact it is "acting middle class," because this same kind of discouragement occurs among lower class whites as well. As long as education is not valued within any group, that group will have difficulty being equally represented in white collar industries.
What we have to work out to explain the disparity between population demographics and white collar job demographics is the proportions of the underrepresented groups who discourage education. People like Jesse Jackson want to make this all out to be the result of prejudice on the basis of genetics or skin color. Honestly, I think we're long past that. There are still plenty of racist bastards out there, but in general, we do not have pink people acting intentionally or unconsciously to undermine the advancement of brown people when it comes to getting college degrees.
It's not PC to talk about genetic differences, but genetics is interesting. Geneticists have identified differences between different ethnic groups, and they have correlated them with some minor differences in physical and cognitive adaptations. Things like muscle tone, susceptibility to certain diseases, social ability, and other things have been correlated to a limited degree with variation in human DNA. But the average differences between genetic groups are miniscule compared to their overlap (statistically, we have very small mu / sigma for basically any meaningful measurable characteristic).
Thus I can only conclude that correcting any disparities must come from within. Regulating businesses won't do any good, because unqualified minorities will end up getting unfairly hired and promoted. We have to start with the children and get them to develop an interest in science and math. If Jesse Jackson wants to fix this problem, he need to learn science and math and start teaching it. I assure you, even at his age, he has that capability, if he just cared enough to do it. Unfortunately for him, if he were to corrupt himself with this knowledge, he would find himself taking a wholly different approach than the "we're victims" schtick he's played most of his life. Personally, I prefer the "the universe is awesome" philosophy held by Neil deGrasse Tyson. He's one of my biggest heroes, having nothing to do with his skin tone.
One last though: I'm sure someone will find something racist in what I have said. Either that or I'm being too anti-racist and appear like I'm overcompensating. There are also aspects of these social issues I know nothing about. I'm just writing a comment on Slashdot that is about as well-informed as any other comment. One thing people should think about in general is whether or not they have hidden prejudices. It's not their fault, having been brought up in a culture that takes certain thing for granted. Instead of burying our heads in the sand, we should be willing to admit that we probably do have subconscious prejudices. That's okay, as long as we consciously behave in a way that is fair to other human beings, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, autism, or any other thing they didn't choose to be born with (and plenty of things they have chosen, because it's people's right to choose).
>. I pray, when they die, the ghost of MLK spends eternity bitch-slapping the both of them day in and day out.
That put a smile on my face.
Glad I could do that for ya!
MLK is one of my personal heroes, right up there alongside Nikola Tesla and Samuel Clemens. Which is what makes it hilarious, for me, when I bitch about Jackson and Sharpton, and someone has the nerve to call me a racist for it.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
If they're laying off mostly non-programmers (i.e. "overhead"), but are still hiring for programming positions, then this would make sense. If not, then it's pretty inexcusable. In either case, someone should have known that at the very least, this would end up looking really bad for them.
Regardless, the fact that the e-mail describing the layoffs actually used the word "synergies" three times told me all I needed to know about the new CEO. Someone in touch with today's culture would never have used that word unless he was mocking another company for using it. Even when using business buzzwords, Microsoft is still about five years behind the times.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
In my 30 years of software management, I was presented exactly once with a black candidate, and I hired him. Excellent programmer and co-worker. I don't know why, but there just aren't many black candidates. How can we achieve parity if there are no candidates?
im not sure, i think al sharpton is a bigger racist
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
If Jesse wants to wage the next race war, he should start by getting more black kids interested in STEM and education in general.
Publicity opportunities while doing something like that are fewer and farther between. Not to mention, it's a harder goal to accomplish than simply whipping up a portion of the population into a frenzy. It's really too bad that the black leaders who are really helping to get kids into STEM or even just graduating high school at higher rates don't get all the same levels of publicity as the Al Sharptons and Jesse Jackons of the world. Not to mention that their messages likely dilute the hard work being done.
It's one thing to scream and yell about a lack of diversity and call on that diversity to be increased. It's a whole other thing to actually do something about it, digging at the root cause and fixing the real problem. It might even make you have to face some hard truths. That is eminently more difficult. It's too bad with give more face time to the first group than we do the second.
Poor asian kids, fresh off the boat, in crappy neighborhoods, focus on survival but still excel in academics and escape the poverty trap.
Certain cultures of poor american kids, born and raised in a victimhood culture, in crappy neighborhoods, focus not only on survival, but denigrate any of their peers who attempt to "act white" by speaking proper english or focusing on academics. These people don't escape the poverty trap.
We've long gotten past the point in time where whitey is actually doing any oppressing - the victimhood culture *oppresses itself*, by making it anathema to actually succeed.
The looters are coming to plunder our fields
i learned ohms law in high school, just what it was and its basics, not application or anything but that should be easy stuff for a 3rd year
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Ricci v. DeStefano http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB124640586803076705
Fisher v. University of Texas http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/10/09/supreme-court-affirmative-action/1623487/
Michigan Proposal 2 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/us/supreme-court-michigan-affirmative-action-ban.html?_r=0
So how about a national property tax on assets, too, while we're fixing all the hypocrisy in IT land?
What assets... I leased them from a subsidiary of another company in sweeden. Oh some other company owns that think they are in Ireland. Hell we lost money on this deal we get a nice tax break.
Your way makes it easier to dodge taxes.
Posting as A. C because you are afraid to face the Black Man.
Comander Taco, Now is the time for a -1 RACIST moderation to put these peope in there places!
And that's EXACLTY how the Jesse Jackson shakedown works.
"Do what I say or I'll call you a RAAAAAACIST!!!"
Jackson really should patent that. It's a hell of an effective "business" method.
Prior art anti-semite!
Just lower the standards until all the black people are hired. Then lower them so more for all the illiterate Mexicans. And so on.
"Why can you not see the Moon during the day?"
I sure hope your answer was, "What the hell are you talking about? I see the moon during the day all the time."
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Jesse has a point, but only so far as he takes it across the board. If we're pushing for affirmative action in tech, then it should apply everywhere. Including professional sports. I think it's only fair that NBA teams show a mandatory 10% white men with equal playtime on the court, 10% asian, and 5% latino.
There have been questions of my ability to do what is on my resume that are legit.
I do a lot of technical interviewing, and that is the whole point of a technical interview, to verify that you actually do possess the skills that you have claimed to possess.
It's not because you're black. It's because you're interviewing. I could tell so many stories of wild resume claims, you'd laugh.
Here's one from today, for an interviewee who was an "expert in J2EE".
Q: What are some different types of EJBs and how do they differ from one another?
A: [uncomfortable silence].
Q: Sorry, let's back up a bit. Tell me about your role in your last project that used J2EE.
A: Uhh, I think I made a JSP once in college before I left to go work at a startup.
As you might expect, his resume got filed away in the recycling bin.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
Oh, and I think that every Society for Black Engineers needs a counterpart Society for White Engineers.
Oh, of course not. It just demonstrates the hypocrisy of the accuser.
You are welcome on my lawn.
"Why can you not see the Moon during the day?"
I'm really curious as to the answer you came up with for this question.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
If Jackson is actually worried about racial diversity, wouldn't his proposed solution (drastically reducing the number of foreign workers by cutting H-1B visas) actually make the problem worse?
"Pay my Rainbow Coalition money or I'll make trouble"
Senator blasts Microsoft for hb1 push and firing 18000 workers
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kedfVAbXNy0
and here is a petition to stop the hb1
http://www.petition2congress.com/7637/abolish-h1b-visa-program/
Sign the petition and help solve the problem for everyone America united anyone?
And if you look at the rest of the data (i.e. the "National Center for Education" "Digest of Education Statistics" "Table 322.30") :
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d13/tables/dt13_322.30.asp
You will notice, that if you breakdown the ethnicity into percentages of degrees conferred, for "computer and information sciences" for 2011-2012, you will see there were 47,384 Bachelor degrees earned by students, of which 30,211 identified as "white" (63.75%), 5,410 as "black" (11.41%), 4,008 as "hispanic" (8.45%), and 4,254 as "asian" (8.97%). There are also another 2,360 "non-resident alien" listed which no ethnicity is given.
Now looking at people working at Yahoo!, 50% White (13% less than percentage earning degrees in USA in 2011-2012), 39% "asian" (30% more than percentage earning degrees), 4% hispanic (4-5% less than percentage earning degrees), 2% black (9% less than those earning degrees).
If you look at all the other companies on that list linked in the article, you will see roughly the same trend, with "whites" having about the same proportional makeup of the companies as there are those getting degrees, asians having a much higher percentage of the workforce than are getting degrees in the US (wow, not surprising since we are importing most of this labor via H1B, green card, immigration), and blacks and hispanics having slightly lower than the amount they graduate.
Now the lower amounts of blacks and hispanics may very well be simply due to location. The companies they looked at are Silicon Valley companies, with the majority of their workforce in California. California has a much lower percentage of blacks than say Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama, etc... If you even slightly believe that the percentage of graduates are equally spread out across the nation's schools based on percentage of population in the schools, and that attendance in schools more closely mimics the population in the state (not always, there are historically african american shools as well women only or male only schools, and schools certain ethnicities would never even want to go to for many reasons), and take into consideration that most people will tend to stay close to home/family when searching for a job, and you will see that the breakdown of ethnicity in Silicon Valley tech companies is probably really not that out of step with the percentage of population in the labor market in Silicon Valley.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
Also, I would go further, and state that simply looking at bachelor degrees does not really do justice for the statistics for those being hired by the Silicon Valley firms. If you look at doctoral degrees in Computer and Information sciences, the breakdown is 73% white, 3% black, 10.7% asian, 4.5% hispanic, of which 71.4% are male, and 28.6% are female. This reflects MANY of the disparages in workforce makeup at these companies. These companies are supposedly the best of the best, and brightest of the brightest, which means it will reflect closely those same best of the best and brightest of the brightest coming out of the education system (which means doctorates, post-doctorates, etc.).
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
Interesting ASSUMPTIONS you're making. Why do you think that?
He can fight against the pervasive drug and gang culture that keeps black kids away from any means to better themselves.
You are confusing cause and effect. Most kids don't dream of becoming drug dealers, they simply have little choice because their schools suck and parents don't care.
Jackson is making the point that there is talent available in the US, it just gets wasted due to lack of opportunity. Instead of lobbying for more H1B visas and employing overseas recruitment specialists the tech companies should be trying to fix the problems that prevent minorities getting the opportunity to work for them. Of course they won't do it without being forced to because business only ever does what is most profitable.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Likewise, tech doesn't attract young black men and women because studying math, science, tech, and computers in school isn't cool. We need to make it cool so everyone gets an education worth a dam in our country. Until then, placing minorities in positions because they're a minority is doing a disservice to those who actually study and do well in school and it puts underqualified people in positions which weakens our tech fields. It all goes back to families then schools,
So now questions like, "How does one measure the amount of water passing a particular point in a river?" or "Why can you not see the Moon during the day?" are being asked.
Are you suggesting that it is okay for a Sysadmin to lack sufficient knowledge to answer those questions? Or that they are somehow discriminatory? I'm just not sure of your point here. I would be perfectly comfortable asking Sysadmin applicants these questions. (With the caveat that the moon is indeed sometimes visible during the day. That question is dumb. But asking why it's visible most nights is not. Interviewers can be stupid too.)
I'm not claiming they weren't being discriminatory. Maybe they were. But that's weak evidence at best.
There have been questions of my ability to do what is on my resume that are legit.
My typical modus operandi is to scan the resume for things I've done myself, the more obscure the better. I then target that in the interview. It's amazing how often people list crap on their resume that was done somewhere in the building, but not by themselves.
For example, I spent about 4 years in the 80's working on the 1553 bus, and considered myself an expert on the protocol, the hardware, and the usage of the bus. A few years ago some idiot put 1553 on his resume but, in the interview, couldn't answer anything about it other than "the military uses it". No shit sherlock, that's my it's full name is MIL-SPEC-1553.
Sorry. Misread your statement. Guess I was just in so much shock from the notion of anyone actively using EJBs for anything.
*** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
Around 2000 or so had a black guy in his 20s come in, dressed to the nines, well spoken, really likeable guy. I was his first interview and, when I met him in the lobby, he had an older white guy with him. hmmm. My interview technique is to start with softball questions to get them to relax, then get harder and harder questions. I don't want to stress them out, I want them to be themselves and give me an idea of what they know and how easy they will be to work with.
This kid couldn't answer my softball question. Couldn't even try, he had no clue. Tried an easier question, utter failure. I kept dumbing down my questions, and it wasn't until we got to data types that he could, eventually, come up with an answer. He couldn't even answer questions from his resume.
Thing was, as the interview went on I got to like this kid more and more. Really nice kid who seemed to have read a quick tutorial on C but had never so much as written a hello world.
My guess is he was a disadvantaged kid who went to some program, the program did a week of classroom, no lab, wrote his resume, loaned him a suit, got him an interview, drove him there, and presented them as an experienced C programmer to companies.
I always thought the next step for civil rights was getting better proponents than Jesse Jackson.
Sounds like this fellow followed a very beaten path of tech folk who decide to bypass college because a company wants them for their skills... and do not give a damn about their genital arrangement or skin pigmentation.
Jackson and others routinely take the position that corporations are money grubbers that only care about profit. If that is true; why would they not hire a qualified candidate, regardless of ancestry? I strongly suspect, as another poster alluded, that this is a problem specific to Silicon Valley. But, it is clearly ripe for plundering by shakedown scammers like Jackson, who has perfected this sort of swindle to a high level.
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."
-- Pablo Picasso
There is a legitimate problem, though, that a disproportionate number of degree holding blacks aren't working in their field. The CEO of McDonald's is an EE. He's not doing bad for himself these days but you have to wonder why he couldn't establish a career as an engineer.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
1. No, he doesn't.
2. You argue from popularity (all those liberals must be right).
3. Insights are obvious once you have them.
4. It doesn't require a completely unbiased take on the world to have a correct insight on one specific aspect. Hell, it doesn't even matter if you have unfounded biases about the subject in question. What matters in context is whether you're correct in that one instance.
In this case, he is. Left wing politics is just as backstabby and self serving as neo-right politics. I find it laughable that the left wing organizations most well known for 'civil rights' are only defending the needs and whims of some, granting them de facto privilege over the rest. This applies across race, sex, orientation, and any other front these activists can cobble together (eg: anita sarkeesian, sarah sharp, rebecca watson, etc). If they were honorable, their actions would match their rhetoric about equal rights for everyone.
"are all too accustomed to having "the prize" and opportunity dangled in front of them, and then snatched away once someone has got what they wanted from that black person"
what in god's name are you babbling about? I almost find that offensive, like there is some fat white man with a tux, cigar, and a monocle saying dance for me and you can have some cornbread, oops too late!
The prize is the same for everyone here, get smart, work hard and you will do just fine, and if anything we as Americans bend over backwards to give it to "minorities" aka black people with numerous programs, if they take advantage of it great, if not tough IMO
Uh... he DID work as an engineer - for Northrop Grumman, and McDonald's. The fact that he's now CEO of McDonald's after several promotions and increasing responsibilities suggests that he *did* establish a career as an egineer, and it led to him being named CEO of a major multinational corporation.
I suspect he's "established a career" as an engineer in a far more successful manner than you have.
Experience has shown that there exists an hierarchy of protected classes:
1. Females espousing religions hostile to Western values
2. Males espousing religions hostile to Western values
3. Lesbians
4. Gays
5. African American female
6. African American male
7. Hispanic female
8. Hispanic male
9. Asian female
10. Asian male
11. Jewish female
12. Jewish male
13. Ethnic white female
14. Ethnic white male
15. Non-ethnic white female
16. Non-ethnic white male
17. White female
18 White male
19. Christian/Messianic Jew/Hebrew Christian/Talmidei Yeshua
Religion is the essence of culture and culture is the dress of religion.
Culture is defined as "the attempt to find a coherent set of answers to the existential questions that confront human beings in the passages in their lives".
Only in the West is identity modular. One can change religions without invalidating an individual's claim to belong to a certain group (within limits). However, in the East, identity is considered a gestalt. Even the slightest alteration of any point no matter how minor it may appear renders that individual's claim to belong to a certain group invalid. This has real life consequences, especially in Israel. When a minority individual achieves beyond an unspoken threshold, they are reassigned as "white" for many purposes thus becoming "quasi-protected". Their membership in a protected class are only for matters negative (hate crimes) and not for matters positive (reservations, set-asides, affirmative action, positive discrimination, etc.).
While I'm happy to push companies to prefer local talent over H-1Bs, there is no civil rights issue in high tech. Tech companies are happy to hire any candidate with the skills appropriate for the job. The public education system is certainly failing our youth and junior colleges need to expand and modernize tech programs, those are places to focus on expanding access not just for minorities, but for everyone. Considering the bad PR they get if diversity percentages are a little off, believe me companies are not avoiding minority hires. As per the wisdom of SouthPark, "Jesse Jackson is not the emperor of black people" - Token Black
Jackson and Sharpton both have livelihoods that depend on race issues. Both are known for race baiting, and have made careers doing just that. This is why even when no racial issues exist, they fabricate information to make them exist. These are not the only two that manipulate discrimination issues for cash. We saw recently that the NAACP will give bigots a lifetime achievement award, if the bigot gives enough money to the NAACP.
That statement should not imply that real issues of discrimination do not exist, but rather that real issues of discrimination are diminished because of these types of people.
It's not a shakedown for money, because that would only let you cash a check once. He wants constant racial issues, and instigates them when ever possible.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
He could start by calling on Congress to get the corrupt H1-B Visa program cancelled. Thats the government program whereby companies import foreign citizens to do I.T. work for half or less than the current salary. It would also help everyone of every race.
How ironic that the "racial purity" types are totally unaware that us "northern white people" are in fact the bastard half-breeds of Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon. Of course, "hybrid vigor" is a well-known phenomenon... but you won't catch Darrel and his brother Darrel willing to acknowledge that; they'd rather find somebody to hate while they bang their sister... :p
Not at all. I don't think the institutions are racist at all. I think they saw talent.
And because of (and in some cases, despite) the efforts of people who have fought these fights for many decades, there are now such opportunities. There was a time, not that long ago, in my lifetime in fact, when this young man would have not gotten the opportunity because of the color of his skin and his station in life.
Now his job is to make sure he gets as much out of them as they get out of him. That is the hard fight.
You are welcome on my lawn.
> tech doesn't attract young black men and women because studying math, science, tech, and computers in school isn't cool.
No, because the jobs are all going offshore. And what isn't going offshore is being done by visa workers.
The future for tech jobs in the USA is grim.
So, wait, the problem is that the wrong minorities are doing the jobs? This is complicated.
There are plenty of open developer jobs in the US. Heck, we have several on my team we can't fill. I strongly suspect people complaining about this either just don't make the cut, or don't want to move to where the jobs are.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
No, actually it is a little bit of an odd comment, although I don't know if it's "racism". If there are companies who are willing to hire people incapable of doing their jobs well, then obviously they will hire cheaper labor who suck over expensive labor who suck. So the only correlation here is wage requirements. Dumber developers earn less money, news at 11.
To jump to generalizing H1Bs or Indian H1Bs is odd. I have worked with plenty of Indian H1Bs who were extremely intelligent and much better at their jobs than their peers at the company. They also were NOT cheap to employ.
[leaning over the bridge to talk to you...]
I'm commenting on an internet forum, not writing a dissertation. I quickly read over my post to see if it makes sense and look for red squiggly underlines, then hit submit, or preview, here on /., and may or may not quickly read over it again before final submission. If you such a nerd, then you know damn well what I was saying. If this kind of mistake bothers you so much, add me to your ignore list and don't read my posts. You'll find many mistakes like this in my online posts, here and on other forums, and there will be more in the future. If I were getting paid to write, or writing something official, I'd take more care. I'm not, so read it or fuck off, makes no big fuck to me either way.
--- Keep the choice with the user..
Your thesis is ingenious. A fucking swiss watch, if i understand it correctly. Let me try to break it down here:
The Problem:
* Black people are not employed in the tech sector in representative numbers
The Cause:
* Black people only do things that are cool
* Studying math/science/tech is NOT cool
* Black people's families are also terrible
The Solution:
* Make education cool (It's the only way to motivate black people!)
It's all so simple now.. so obvious. I mean, when you put it that way, even a black person might be able to understand it! (ha ha YEAH RIGHT, AMIRITE?? ha ha! they are so dumb!!!)
That's a good point but why are these jobs going offshore? Is it because we can't do the jobs or is it because they can get the job done for less pay? Probably a combination of the two.
The prize is the same for everyone here, get smart, work hard and you will do just fine, and if anything we as Americans bend over backwards to give it to "minorities" aka black people with numerous programs, if they take advantage of it great, if not tough IMO
Correction sir, what the hell are YOU talking about? Those programs are barely designed to level the playing field that is the byproduct of generations of gerrymandering and gentrification of black neighborhoods which disenfranchise them on the education level. Not even the internet has been able to level the education gap because service providers underserve minority neighborhoods.
Was there a racial element to the interview? Probably, given that black men are very rare in IT and that people are not used to dealing with unusual things in many ways. However, these sound like typical dumbass "brainteaser" questions:
So now questions like, "How does one measure the amount of water passing a particular point in a river?" or "Why can you not see the Moon during the day?" are being asked.
The problem is they're not really brainteasers, in that they're fun "impossible" or "off the wall" questions.
The first is a rather fun question and has had many solutions with a rather interesting history. If you've happened to done any civil engineering, then you may have covered streamflow measurement in which case the first answer is somewhat nuanced and based on the size of the river, number of measurements required and various other constraints.
The second one is the old "why are manhole covers round" in that the question is outright wrong.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
AC complaining about someone posting as AC. I'd say it is time for -2 IDIOT moderation to put these people in their places.
Jesse Jackson is not a Black leader. He does not and never has spoken for Black people. He is self serving and always has been.
However!
As one of the few Black men in IT, I have to say it is prejudicial almost every time I interview for a position. I have over 15 years in IT. I have done Software Engineering; SQA Engineering; Systems Engineering and Technical Project Management. There have been questions of my ability to do what is on my resume that are legit. But I have had more than a few instances where it was obvious to me that the questions "all of a sudden" take a weird turn. I applied for a Systems Admin position, did really well on the phone technical screen. Came in for a face to face and things took a turn. Under the guise of "I just want to see how you think" questions that are usually asked to potential Software Developers are being asked. I handled the questions with ease (a good education AND experience as a Developer). The surprise on the face of interviewer was disheartening. I knew what was being attempted. So now questions like, "How does one measure the amount of water passing a particular point in a river?" or "Why can you not see the Moon during the day?" are being asked. I've asked more than a few of my IT colleagues if they have had these situations and not one has. The assumption that all Blacks are from the "Inner City" "the ghetto" or "Urban" and lack education is so wrong. There are many of us that are twice as good and make half as much because of the Supremacist entitlement that pervades this culture.
A friend of mine runs, and has run for many years, the network department of a private bank in New York. He is black (oh, sorry Black) coming originally from Jamaica (the island not the borough).
What he told me, back when I was working for him, is that in his opinion blacks in America tend to cause themselves problems that don't actually exist. He was quite worried, at the time, that his son would pick up the 'we are persecuted' mentality and drop his own level of achievement to try and fit in with the other black students in his school.
I grew up in a home for children. We all had nothing and, arguably, we all had the same living environment growing up. I saw this exact thing happen with one of my 'brothers' who was black. He was living the same as me - same room, same money, same people around us. He went to the same schools that I did. The difference was that he picked up the 'we are persecuted' mentality and started acting black to fit in. Things only got worse from there, which I won't go into. The long and short of it is that I think that my friend from Jamaica is right. Even where there is no persecution, American blacks create problems for themselves.
Obviously this is a generalization. There are plenty of successful black people who have never let themselves be stopped by anything - least of all themselves.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
The NBA values physical ability. Tech companies value mental ability. Are you saying that black people are inherently less intelligent than white people? It's a theory that has been researched and mostly rejected.
I suppose you could argue for a programme to help stretch young white kids on some kind of medieval rack so that they are more competitive at basketball, in exchange for better schools and learning opportunities for young black kids.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Are you sure it's a problem and not a symptom?
That's not something anyone in the technology sector can effect, though...
(Not saying what that race was, as the problem was just a couple of assholes, and not a more general problem).
Obviously, the preferred race was South Asian. Why bother being coy about it?
Writhe your naked ass to the mindless groove.
Tech Diversity Is Next Civil Rights Step
Not, it is not. Instead of scrutinizing tech companies why they have low % of African American and Hispanic engineers (I'm a Hispanic engineer btw), they should scrutinize those communities (my community included) as of why they produce fewer %s of engineers compared to non-Hispanic Whites (or worse, against Asian/Asian American communities.)
This is not a case of tech companies discriminating against X or Y ethnic group. It is about our communities doing a piss-poor job at ensuring our kids a proper education and get proper role models.
Yes, Hispanic and African American communities have suffered systematic discrimination in the past (specially African Americans). But we past that point a long time ago, and the balance has been pointing towards community responsibility for quite some time.
Jeese Jackson is an asshole and an attention whore. He is stirring up this shit, race baiting the tech industry as a means to stay relevant. Sadly, there will be enough dumb masses that follow him.
The NBA values physical ability.
Are you saying that white people are inherently less physically able than black people? How do you measure physical ability? There are physical sports where white people are overrepresented (like hockey), so let's not pretend that top white athletes are not competitive. It's entirely possible that there is systemic racism in basketball. Are childhood training dollars spent disproportionately in black communities? For instance I remember Clinton's midnight basketball program.. how many white kids showed up to that?
Are there systemic racially biased issues with player selection? For instance, some players are recruited straight from high school. Blacks are less likely to go to college than whites, so this disproportionately helps blacks.
What about the rules of basketball? Is there a systemic problem that gives an advantage to one race or culture?
I'm like 75% serious about this, even though it started as a joke. These are the exact same things you hear people say about institutional racism against blacks in any area where whites seem to have an overrepresentation.
Tech companies value mental ability. Are you saying that black people are inherently less intelligent than white people? It's a theory that has been researched and mostly rejected.
It has been rejected as a matter of principle by the scientific community, not as a matter of fact. Most of the research I've seen is looking into why whites do better on intelligence tests, have higher academic performance, and better career performance (judged by employment numbers and salaries), etc, as an attempt to explain why these tests are biased against blacks. Some of the difference can be explained by adjusting for socioeconomic status, exposure to lead, etc.. but I've never seen a comprehensive explanation that accounts for the entire difference. And, uncharacteristic of traditional science, that unexplained difference is not accepted as legitimate, it is labeled as simply "not known YET."
Can't be long now before Spike Lee "discovers" this and squeezes a few "oh so controversial" movies out...
"Only one thing is impossible for God: To find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." - Mark Twain
In my experience (Canadian government IT) if there is racism preventing black people getting jobs, it is happening before the job application process.
I am a programmer working in an IT section with about 75 employees, and we do not have a single black person currently employed. And this is government, where being any official minority gives you a leg up on everyone else in the pool. We had a black testing consultant a several years back, and last year we had a black student. But otherwise we have many whites, asians, indians, and misc, all of varying qualities. In university (in the same city) my classrooms were a similar mix, also with very few black people. Of the black people I've encountered that work in this organization, almost all of them are on the business policy side, which usually means they are PhD's (veterinarians).
Would someone shut that race-bating, hypocritical piece of shit up already?
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
This. The article was confusing, at first I thought he was against h-1b visas and wanted more Americans working, then it switched to not enough black programmers. There is a huge number of minorities working in the tech industry but it's not the black minority. Is Jesse Jackson supporting Americans or blacks only?
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
Are you saying that white people are inherently less physically able than black people? How do you measure physical ability? There are physical sports where white people are overrepresented (like hockey), so let's not pretend that top white athletes are not competitive. It's entirely possible that there is systemic racism in basketball. Are childhood training dollars spent disproportionately in black communities? For instance I remember Clinton's midnight basketball program.. how many white kids showed up to that?
Statistically speaking there are more very tall black African Americans than white Americans. I'm not sure that statistically African Americans are dumber though, if you were to somehow measure raw intelligence and potential rather than academic results.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
There is a legitimate problem, though, that a disproportionate number of degree holding blacks aren't working in their field. The CEO of McDonald's is an EE. He's not doing bad for himself these days but you have to wonder why he couldn't establish a career as an engineer.
Maybe he didn't want to?
I started out as a microwave engineer in military electronics. After several years I couldn't stand it anymore, learned me that there programming stuff and changed careers to IT. The engineer working next to me quit a year or so before I did. I hear he's fixing CB radios somewhere away from the madding crowd. It does happen, and by choice.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
So, wait, the problem is that the wrong minorities are doing the jobs? This is complicated.
There are plenty of open developer jobs in the US. Heck, we have several on my team we can't fill. I strongly suspect people complaining about this either just don't make the cut, or don't want to move to where the jobs are.
It might depend on where you work. My manager stated publicly a couple years ago that he'll be concentrating on offshore contractors and H-1B applicants for all future hires for budgetary reasons. In those two years, partly do to regular churn, and partly due to people getting fed up and leaving, the racial characteristic of the department changed dramatically. So much so that the locals who are left are becoming concerned about their own future. Currently, people with visas and people remoting out of little towns east of Mumbai outnumber US citizens (of any race).
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Statistically speaking there are more very tall black African Americans than white Americans.
Height is only one factor to consider in a basketball player. If not, there isn't a shortage of tall white guys to put on the team. Problem is most tall people lack other characteristics that make a good basketball player.
But let's say you're right. Whatever characteristics make a good basketball player, including height, are somehow more amply found in blacks. In another industry, a setup that catered to characteristics specific to one race would be called racist. These problems have easy solutions after all. For example, if white people aren't tall enough, then make basketball hoops shorter. There's no *reason* they're so tall, it's arbitrary and according to you tilts the field in favor of one race over others.
I'm not sure that statistically African Americans are dumber though, if you were to somehow measure raw intelligence and potential rather than academic results.
Forget raw intelligence, we don't need it in this discussion. Let's say a company or school screens applicants not on "raw intelligence" but on "how well you do on SATs" or "what your high school GPA is." Perfectly objective measures, just like height. It would be the same standard, applied equally to everyone. But people call it racist because the SATs are culturally biased against blacks. It's arbitrary, just like some of the tests the NBA has (like height). It has different outcomes based on race, just like the NBA.
Are you okay with that, as long as we add the caveat that it's measuring the applicants performance on the SAT, not raw intelligence?
Mr. Jackson apparently has run out of other things to crab about, so he is going to start crabbing about the lack of diversity in high-tech. U.S. affirmative action has been around for over 50 years and during that time there has been enormous opportunity for blacks and other minorities to get an edge on education, often at the disadvantage of more qualified whites, and improve their ability to get better paying jobs whether it is in high-tech or elsewhere. By and large, for whatever the reasons, with relatively rare exceptions, the black/non-white community, in general, has failed to avail themselves of this. To claim racial discrimination at this point is ludicrous.
As long as this also have a simultaneous effort to promote opportunity for whites in the NBA, then I'm all for it.
Also, I like the cut of his anti-H1B jib. But as long as we're identifying areas where the white community is under served as well. I'd recommend starting with the NBA.
It's not a lack of talent, it's a lack of opportunity.
http://www.accountkiller.com/en/delete-slashdot-account Stop visiting Slashdot.
Development is a global market, and the work can be done anywhere. Best get used to that fact, as it won't change. However, demand still exceeds supply and supply is fully online worldwide: every university worldwide with a credible CS program, and quite a few with dubious ones, are being recruited from now, and have been for years. The workforce was growing exponentially 10 years ago, as new nations were opening up, but is growing linearly now and demand is still strong. It's one of the best paying jobs in every country now. Nothing to complain about.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Thank you so much for having the courage to speak up on this topic on /.
I so hope the young wet behind the ears passionate naive millennials who actually believe the propaganda spewed by the so called civil rights leaders on MSNBC... Propaganda carefully crafted to make people angry and send money to greedy people who only have their own self interest at heart... These people do not speak for the majority of blacks, nor do they represent black culture, nor are they doing blacks any favors.
I have personally seen racism in many forms it makes me sick. Literally physically sick.
Murphy was an optimist
I really admire the way the CEO of Cypress Semiconductor refused to knuckle under to Jackson back in 2001 after Jackson labeled Cypress a "white supremacist hate group.’” I hope every Silicon Valley target of his does the same.
T. J. Rodgers. One of my very favorite comments on Jesse Jackson ever: "Jesse Jackson is like a seagull. He flies in, craps all over everything, then flys out again."
tech companies are functionally closer to strict meritocracies
This would in no way explain the huge numbers of South Asians in their employ. The strange thing is, black or Latino Americans could be hired almost as cheaply as Indians, so the preference is to crapflood the market with imported labor in order to push down wages overall. Usually, he is indeed a shakedown artist, but in this case, Jackson is on the right track.
Writhe your naked ass to the mindless groove.
Ok, so who IS fighting racism? Because just looking at some of the posts in this thread, it needs fighting.
Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
> Development is a global market, and the work can be done anywhere. Best get used to that fact, as it won't change.
I understand that, and I have no problems competing on merit. But I'm still here (at this time) seeing the quality of the people we are hiring, and there is a definite trend to go on price rather than capabilities. We are hiring programmers that have zero experience with the tools they have been hired to use. I'm having to baby them, not through our work environment, methods and procedures, but basic things like how to log into the tool and how to open a project.
There seems to be a school of thought that ten offshore programmers at $5/hour are better than one local programmer at $50/hour. There are rare cases where this is true, but it generally isn't for long -- true expertise will move on as soon as a better offer becomes available. What often happens (what's happening right now) is that the $5/hour programmers not only aren't productive, they drag down the productivity of the remaining personnel who actually know what they're doing.
But managers can show that development costs are down, so the trend continues.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
oh and the poor non minority neighborhoods are not also under-served? I just find it interesting that there are 1 million and 1 programs to serve area's like inner city minorities as if there aint a poor white kid living in the ghetto as well
So your theory is what? That blacks are too smart to see what whites have missed? Sorry, guy, but IT is filled to the brim with minorities, and jobs on-shore are everywhere. And yes, many are filled with H1-B visas, but it is clearly not a racism problem, nor is it an opportunity problem. Look at the number of black applicants for tech jobs. Look at the number of black students majoring in STEM. Who's missing? Failure to capitalize on opportunities is not equivalent to the nonexistence of those opportunities, and you can't bitch your way into them either. These are jobs that demand productive output... results. And it's too easy to know whether somebody writes code or designs tech that works, so nobody skates and stays employed. The solution is -- to put it bluntly -- to stop laughing at Urkel and play up how cool and desirable these jobs are. To capitalize on the opportunities takes real skill, and that takes real work. So your TARGET of a campaign can not be the industry. That's just planning to fail. The target must be young students, and they must be targeted LONG before they get to college.
Don't pay taxes. Tell your regime to go and PRINT dollars for its Extravagance.
Casteism
Grim? 120/hr right now, hope it stays grim is that's what it's called now.
Peers discourage each other from studying because it's "acting white." When in fact it is "acting middle class," because this same kind of discouragement occurs among lower class whites as well.
"Acting middle class" is merely another way of describing yourself as a servant. They have correctly identified that we are all servants and that the best that they can hope for is to be marginally better off than some others. This is a total ripoff and they know it. There is an ENORMOUS amount of wealth out there and 90% or more of us will never get to touch even a small amount of it. Why work so hard for so little? Fuck it, be a gangsta and live free (until you go to prison).
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen